This has to be one of the commonest limerence traps out there. It’s certainly the most common scenario that people email me about, and no wonder; all the elements of limerence are there: close proximity to a small community of people (including potential LOs), built in barriers to the free expression of feelings, and no prospect of going fully No Contact. Mix in mid-lifers, boredom, long periods of time spent together with the occasional shared triumphs and disasters, and you couldn’t have set up better conditions for limerence if you had designed it. Like some sort of limerence super villain.
So, what are the challenges that face the limerent who succumbs to a co-worker LO? And how can you overcome them?
1) No no contact
There’s no escaping it, you often have to work with your co-workers. If you become limerent for one of them, then the number one tactic for overcoming limerence is denied to you. That means working on other tactics, but first, you should establish how much contact is really necessary. If LO is someone you only interact with very occasionally, then No Contact is feasible. It’s also possible to limit contact to essential business, and avoid LO during more casual interactions (coffee breaks etc.). If you are able to, limit contact as much as you can.
Sometimes, it’s not possible, though. Maybe LO is your boss. Maybe LO works for you, or you are both in a small team. So, the best bet under these conditions is to reprogram your brain and disrupt established, comfortable patterns of behaviour. I’ve written before about the idea of a “staged withdrawal” strategy. This means slowly turning the tenor of your interactions with LO away from intimacy and back to cordial professionalism. The plan is to be less and less forthcoming with personal information, and steer conversations that have drifted from professional topics back on track. A sudden “cold turkey” end to friendliness is going to provoke questions and confusion from LO, so you need to decelerate deliberately and carefully. It takes discipline to pull this off, but a slow, planned, progressive cooling of relations is a good way of neutralising the limerence while maintaining professionalism.
2) Disclosure is a massively high risk strategy
I’ve written before about the complications of flirting at work. In [current year] flirting, or even discussing romance, with work colleagues is a very high risk activity. If you misjudge this – and let’s be honest, most of us are not masters of communication – the repercussions are potentially severe. Most companies are extremely risk averse about co-worker romances, and many have explicit policies around this. Quite apart from the social and professional consequences, there are also the personal implications of having to work with someone after you have admitted your feelings – whether or not they reciprocate.
Many of us have experienced the grimness of working in a team where a romance has Gone Wrong and the ex-partners still have to work together. Many will also have worked in a team where overt favouritism is shown to the boss’s romantic partner (or even if it isn’t, the perception that it is predominates). There is no denying that office romances disrupt the functioning of teams. Or maybe LO is limerent for you too, but in a long-term relationship, and so you drag each other down in a limerence-reinforcing push/pull dance of excitement and guilt. None of these scenarios make for a successful professional or romantic career.
And in the (probably much more likely) scenario that your feelings are not reciprocated by LO, you have no idea how they will react.
People are unpredictable. All kind of fascinating weirdness is out there. While that makes the world a stimulating and enriching place, in the immediate term it makes your working life harder. Maybe they will be very offended and report you. Maybe they will like the attention, and string you along. Maybe they will be freaked out, and avoid you at all costs, making it hard to get your work done (though it should help with lessening the limerence).
Unless you are very confident that LO reciprocates, and you are both free to act on your feelings, disclosure at work is high on risk and low on benefit.
3) Power hierarchies complicate everything
Linking uncomfortably into the previous point, the dangers of disclosure are magnified if there is a significant power differential between you and LO. The #metoo movement is exposing the long history of bosses making unwanted sexual advances towards their subordinates, but there’s a flip side too. In the past, a subordinate “flirting up” with an uninterested manager would have been taking little risk. Most likely it would have been taken with good humour or embarrassment, or at worst, the flirt would have become the butt of office gossip. Now, it is very likely that the manager will take steps to protect themselves. In fact, that is the standard advice where I work – any romantic overtures from junior colleagues should be documented and reported up the line. That formally records what once would have been possible to laugh off.
So wherever you and LO sit in the hierarchy, there is no easy or safe way to disclose. The current climate in professional circles seems to have settled on “no romance with co-workers permitted”, which, while simple enough, rather blithely dismisses human nature. That said, if you are limerent for a co-worker and don’t want to be, then this can be a very useful mantra. Treat it like an iron-cast rule.
4) Boundaries between work and home
The final big challenge is where to draw boundaries between work and home. Most people socialise with their work colleagues to some degree, even if only at company-organised “dos”. It goes without saying that these are perilous moments if LO is present; doubly so if alcohol is also present. A common experience during these event is hyperawareness of LO – always knowing where they are in the room, being distracted from the conversation you are having, because you have half an ear open for the conversation LO is having behind you. The best method I devised for dealing with this was to deliberately focus on the person in front of you, and listen to them actively. This helps create a mental bubble, helps you be a better colleague (and makes the event more enjoyable for the person you are chatting with), and also means you may get to learn something interesting.
Finally, the other big boundary – the final frontier – is social media and texting. Company cultures differ, but if you can possibly avoid e-communication with LO outside of work hours, do so. There are multiple reasons, but the big one is that nothing feeds limerence like an ambiguous text from LO read just before you go to bed.
No contact outside work is the goal to strive for. No texting or FB messaging or Whatsapping unless the correspondence is mission critical. Acceptable scenarios in this category would include if you are limerent for the CEO and they need your input to prevent a multimillion pound deal collapsing over the weekend. You can send a text then. But keep it brief. Otherwise, wean yourself off the habit of texting LO as quickly and decisively as you can.
tl;dr:
Limerence for a co-worker is a minefield, with very little prospect for a good outcome. It is a scenario that lends itself well to the overall theme of this blog: recognise that the limerence is happening within your mind, carefully apply psychological tactics to counteract the limerence program, and decide to take responsibility and live with purpose. It’s the long term path to mastery.
Realistically of course the best remedy is for either the LO or the Limerent to leave the workplace. Then the best remedy, NC, is possible.
Thankfully that’s what has happened to me, LO is leaving in 5 days. We’ve fallen out too so I don’t think we’ll have the tearful goodbye I was dreading either, which makes it easier, albeit a sad end.
Yes, one or other of you leaving is the simplest ending. Well done for hanging on Vincent. Shame that you’ve fallen out with LO at the end, but as you say, that’s actually likely to help in the final analysis.
Keep your eyes on the post-LO future and all the new possibilities therein!
A week of NC now after I sent her a text saying we were done now. We’d fallen out over something, I gave it a few days but couldn’t get over what she had done (I don’t want to reveal details but she’s done similar a couple of times and we’d had words each time). Part of me wonders if my reaction was me subconsciously making this parting and path into NC easier for myself. Either way, she left without saying goodbye, which made me feel very sad, and she’s not replied to my text. I’ve deleted all trace of her now and am trying to look to the future, when not wondering why she hasn’t replied ;-( …
If it helps at all, Vincent, there is never much realistic prospect of a clean or happy ending to unfulfilled limerence. The only real hope is if you can manage a staged withdrawal beforehand, but often either limerent or LO gets offended, or upset, and the “friendship” deteriorates. Especially if there was mutual limerence.
Looking to the future is always a good perspective.
She left two weeks back for another state. Miss her so much, we parted well. Wish her well.
Reading my mind, eh?
Excellent advice, all of it. Pity that at this particular moment I am too far into the limerence fog to want to enforce it. And I was doing so well! Till last week, when there was –you guessed it– socializing and alcohol.
At least I’ve had the discipline to swap my home office days in order to limit contact to LO as inconspicuously as possible, and have updated my CV just in case. Wish me luck.
Hi Marianne,
Very late to reply to this (apologies!) but… Good luck!
Dr L
Also: you are spot on on the factors. Even though I am a serial limerent, I never had this issue before at work, so I’m blaming the midlife crisis.
And I thought with age came maturity and calm. Nonsense!
Thank you so much for this blog. I am thick in the fog for my boss who now says I am his firend and I can call him at night or on the weekends. He has a counseling degree and is working with me on setton on
Hi Kate, and welcome.
Yikes, limerence for boss is a tough one – no contact is not really an option!
If your boss is a counsellor, he should be well aware of professional boundaries, but I confess to being a little taken aback by the number of emails I get from therapy professionals who seem to think that they are immune to the problems that they counsel clients on. Until they get mugged by limerence. I’ve speculated to myself that it is an area of work that is by its very nature is very emotionally charged, and so limerence is a significant risk.
If you can, I would suggest putting fairly strict limits on your evening and weekend contact. It’s a very effective reinforcer of reverie.
Good luck!
“I confess to being a little taken aback by the number of emails I get from therapy professionals who seem to think that they are immune to the problems that they counsel clients on.”
Well, remember that part of the therapy process IS getting clients to trust you and transference is supposed to be something addressed in-depth while in school and in training. It shouldn’t come as a surprise to any of them and they are supposed to know how to extricate themselves from the dynamic when it’s no longer helpful to the client.
In theory.
This is short and hardly all-encompassing, but it’s still worth the read.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/in-therapy/201206/clients-guide-transference
In all honesty – if this guy has a license to risk, I would call the governing body and find out if there are any complaints on file.
“I am thick in the fog for my boss who now says I am his friend and I can call him at night or on the weekends. ”
Don’t call this guy at night or weekends. This is a veritable red flag factory. Can you find a new job? Is he THE boss or YOUR boss? Is there some sort of employee handbook? I would suggest HR but if he’s their boss you can put your career in jeopardy.
Yesterday I saw LO properly for first time in over 6 months. Went in with a box of chocolates for the team (as is customary for former colleagues to during the 2nd busiest week of the year!)
LO said Hello. What was said I can’t be 100% certain because my anxiety took over. It was basic pleasantries rather than a proper conversation. He then went out the back and I managed a proper chat with the other colleagues.
Lessons learned:
– The Glimmer has gone!! I was simultaneously delighted and sad at this. Also annoyed that if there’s no glimmer, how come I couldn’t string a sentence together!?!
– He was indifferent to me – nice enough but just as he had been to previous customer.
– The whole thing may have been in my head – I was being ridiculous.
– I’ve made an idiot of myself, and there’s 0 chance of reciprocation now.
– I may actually be making progress!!
Thanks again for all the support from this site. Hope everyone manages to have a Happy Christmas and New Year.
Happy Christmas to you too, Sophie.
Sounds like a bit of a mixed bag of emotions with your last contact – but mostly positive lessons. Not too surprising to find yourself tongue-tied, given how much Significance LO takes on in our limerent minds, but great that you bounced back quickly and recognised how much progress you’ve made (congrats!). Here’s to a purposeful 2019!
Hi – Thanks for this site. I needed something to go to and this has been perfect. I didnt even know there was a name for what I was going through!
I used to work with a colleague for 2 years, 6 years ago – we were good friends which at the end she became like a work wife – after I left we lost touch bar the odd message on linked in. Always thought she was nice but no way my type at all.
Then 2 years ago in my current job a vacancy arose and i recommended her to my manager – she got the job. We pretty much slotted back into work wife/hubby situation again and then I realised after 6 months the ‘glimmer’ and started to like her and do special things for like – bring her coffee when she was stressed, helped her find shoes online that she couldnt get her size in…..go to new eating joints after work with her – she did reciprociate messaging me outside of work and coming with me when i asked her for drinks – didnt initiate that much – she is an introvert so I found i did all the asking and she always was ok with it.
Anyway over the last 18 months I realised i thought about her a lot at home and even was messaging her when i was on holiday – and once even messaged her when she wasnt in the office and told her i missed her (in an indirect way)…our messages and closeness increased but there was no disclosure from either of us. Im not convinced she has anything for me except good feelings of care and friendship – she does message me on weekends with jokes and stuff.
Anyway in the last 2 months i have not been myself and i came across this site and decided to start to let it all go…its hard as we are in the same team but not working directlty on the same projects so that does help. On a positive note she is leaving end of Jan.
So all sounds good right?
BUT we have both applied for a new job which is one of the worlds best brands and they have several vacancies – my worry is should i still take it if she gets an offer too!!
As my therapist says to me, her texting in the evenings, weekends and holidays is very telling. She’s obviously thinking about you, and you don’t do that if you’re not interested.
You haven’t said what the problem is here. Do you and her have SOs?
Thanks – to clarify, 90% of the time I text on weekends and evenings and she does participate in conversation/banta with me. only 10% of the time would she initiate it. On holiday i have 100% always initiated it and she will talk when on holiday fo ra short while…not on going throughout the holiday. So not sure what to make of it.
I guess last week i thought id take advantage of our xmas party and the fact that people would be relaxed…..I said to her before the party that maybe we leave at 11 and get some food together and i can walk her to her station – we both said good idea but we would see how the evening would go and how we were feeling at the time……when it came to 11pm on the night she said she was not tired yet and would probably stay till midnight….so i then left at 11pm. I kinda took that as a cue that she has nothing for me expect friendship as that was a good opportunity to spend time together alone which she dismissed.
I have an SO but really like the LO. She has no SO
“…bring her coffee when she was stressed, helped her find shoes online that she couldnt get her size in…..go to new eating joints after work with her ”
In essence, you were dating her (LO). Did you put an equal amount of thought and effort into your relationship with your SO then? Do you now?
“I have an SO but really like the LO. She has no SO.”
Sounds like SO is a placemarker or security object.
Does SO know about the situation with your co-worker? If she did, would you do anything differently? I’m not talking about “guilt gifts”.
In the meantime, I hope 2019 is less uncertain for you.
Well didn’t feel like dating. Felt like I was doing these things to try and see if she will reciprocate in her own way. Don’t think there was anything. She did if I asked her for something. But she wasn’t proactive like I was.
And yes gave SO same attention. But limerence at work meant it’s like 2 lives and I can’t tell if she has limerence too
Kevin –
Helping a woman find shoes in her size online is something you do for someone you are courting. Do you do it for anyone else, unsolicited? Pop up and bring coffee for others? Do you know their preferred roast and whether or not they take it black or with sugar? Do you do it for men in your office?
I mean, turn it around. If your SO was researching and purchasing a tie for a co-worker, or tying a tie for a gentleman at work, wouldn’t you twig to the fact that she has romantic feelings for him?
It’s like…reaching out and straightening a man’s collar without pointing it out to him (he can do it himself). It’s an intimate gesture.
If you are no longer interested in your SO – let her go. Life is only so long and she may not be aware that you’re only half-interested in her. Cut your losses.
Your not wrong. Yes I do like LO and do all these things for her as I’m looking for reciprocal actions as I have learnt I have limerence and craving that. She doesn’t give as much as I do hence why I’m convinced that she has nothing for me.
What your saying I agree and know about. But I’m trying to stop now and focus on SO Hence on this site.
even though we work together we will have no contact as we are of work for 2 weeks. Then I have 4 weeks of vein in same building and then she leaves end of jan
Question is we may end up again st the same company if we both get a job we are going for.
Can you broaden your skill set to minimize holding very similar positions within a company? I don’t know your field and at the upper echelon it tends to get rather cosy. But the more you invest in yourself, the better.
Having said that when I mentioned the other day that I need a new blazer she sent me a link if one she was suggesting. Things like that keep me hanging on to her thinking she likes me and we can carry on living in this world where we like each other. But I don’t know if I’m correct or she is just being friendly.
Hi Kevin,
Thanks for your comments, and for sharing your experiences. I think the most important question you have to answer is “do you really want a home wife and a work wife, and are your two wives OK with that too?”
You should take some time to reflect on what you want from your life, because it seems like you are seeking emotional connection with LO without really understanding why and why your life with SO is not meeting that need.
My ethos is “purposeful living” because it helps to stimulate me to think about why I do what I do, and how it fits in with my goals. I drifted into limerence for a co-worker because I was just responding to the happy feelings of a new (sort of) romantic connection, without looking ahead to the inevitable negative consequences. I then had to dig myself out of the mess, which was painful for everyone involved.
From what you’ve shared, it sounds like you are seeking deeper emotional bonding with your co-worker. While it feels good early on, once it tips into limerence, you become increasingly desperate for reciprocation, connection and intimacy. It kind of sounds like you are there – scrutinising every action for meaning, anchoring your hopes on small, ambiguous gestures, and worrying about how you are going to handle future interactions.
If you do want to get out of this limerence loop, I think a really valuable first step would be to accept that you are never going to know for sure how LO feels about you, and that’s OK. I wrote a post on that idea here, https://livingwithlimerence.com/2018/08/17/living-with-uncertainty/.
The main point is about “letting go” of LO and refocussing on SO. If LO has good character, they would not respond to your romantic overtures anyway, if they knew you were in a relationship. Alternatively, if your relationship with SO is over, you should end it with integrity, and then take your chances with LO (who may decline).
As for the future, it may play out that you and LO end up working together again. If so, I would start that new endeavour with a new perspective: she is not your work wife, she is a co-worker that you like and enjoy the company of. Multiple wives (or husbands) is rarely a good look…
Thanks for this and taking the time to
Write it.
Yeah, like you it’s rhise new romantic feelings I’m enjoying. Well I was enjoying but now I try and avoid her in the workplace and am
Counting down the days to
Her last day. Cos
Of how i feel
After experiencing her presence – a mess.
Before limerence I felt
Energised but now
It’s different.
Since Xmas
Party this week I feel I have to give her up. She basically chose the party over me and I was out just to spend time with her. I do feel like a fool doing nice things for her like a boyfriend would throughout the year.
So you had something similar and your fully over it
Now?
Kevin,
Twenty months ago, I was in full blown Limerence with a divorce male family friend. I’m happily married with two teenagers. Limerence derailed my life and peace of mind. I found this website and have slowly crawled out of the madness. It’s a condition that I’m trying to control. During the height of Limerence, I purchased a $350 first edition, signed copy of my LO’s favorite local author. It was his Christmas gift. Did I spend that much money or time gift hunting for my SO? …No, I did not. That’s how insane and crazy Limerence can make a person.
A full year later, where am I? My LO is with his young girlfriend. I’m dead weight to him. …Where am I? Thankfully, still married to a man that took me out last night for dinner. It was raining, my SO gently tucked me in a corner to stay warm and dry while he walked out to get the car. This is real life. Not the Limerence.
Think about where you want to be in your life, marriage and peace of mind. If you cannot be around LO without being a person of integrity, then don’t take the position. Start the process of staged withdrawal and No contact.
It’s hard, but you can’t be with your LO now. By her actions, she acts like someone that cares, but not enough to break a marriage.
BTW, “mother Lee” is a spouse of a Limerent. She’s the cold splash of water that we need to remind us that there’s a real spouse on the other end of this Limerence roller coaster ride.
Good Luck.
I hope your evening together was delightful!
Happy holidays Irene. I hope 2019 is truly wonderful. Or at least a (mostly) fun ride.
Thanks for sharing
Did he reciprocate to you.
Thanks for sharing your story and words of wisdom with me. You are so right about what you say.
How did you get out of your Limerence.
Did he reciprocate to you.
My issue is sometimes im resiprocated (10%) of the time – so I hang onto that for more of the romantic feelings.
Im going for NC but as we work in same company on same floor we have to have contact. But atleast over the holiday period there will be none – unless she messages me. I kinda want her too deep down but I know it goes against all of this.
Kevin,
Every LO has reciprocated their Limerent feelings in one way or another. Often times that’s what initiated the start of Limerence. My LO was divorce, no kids and single for a very long time. He doesn’t want to have children or bother with other divorcée offsprings. My teenagers are young men and friends with LO. He’s not my type, we had known him for awhile. He recommended some things for us to go tour since we were new to the area. I enjoyed his recommendations and would thank him for his advice. This is a year into our acquaintance. We start a very appropriate friendship. We have an unbelievable amount of common interests in books, movies and hobbies. The glimmer starts. Four months of yearning and inappropriate “friendship” pattern is established. (Two inappropriate hugs initiated by LO was as far as it went) He gets tired of mooning after a married woman and moves on to a young single girl. Immediately, I’m avoided and ignored. It was a harmless flirtation on his part, ….almost two years for me to cope with the aftermath.
What lessons did I learn? It’s not my marriage, LO or anything external. What is the root of my problem? I have an avoidance personality, married to a incredibly strong willed husband that doesn’t share a lot of interests with me, siblings that are manipulative. I lost my beloved father in 2013, my only brother became paralyzed after a massive stroke in 2014 (age 51) and we make this major move to a new state. No family or friends and I’m not working in order to raise the boys. I meet LO in June 2015, the Limerence started in December of 2016. It’s the closing of 2018, I’m in a stronger position, but not completely over the Limerence. Wiser and armed with knowledge. This website, Dr.L and all the bloggers has helped.
Kevin, keep asking yourself this, …..What is the root of the problem? It’s not your LO or even your spouse. There’s a gap in your life and you are trying to fill it with LO and all the dopamine reliefs it comes with.
LO is not my type, but every time I see him, all the alarm buttons goes off, every hair in my body stands up and I’m in hyperarousal mode. You would absolutely laugh if I texted you a picture of him. He’s short, bald and slender to the point of being feminine. (I could list all of his appealing features, but it’s long and has to be in pdf) My husband refuses to find him a threat. I am so frightened of my response to LO that I avoid him like a recovering alcoholic avoids alcohol. This is Limerence. It has to be.
“…remind us that there’s a real spouse on the other end of this Limerence roller coaster ride.”
Well, from the number of times I’ve found myself unexpectedly smacked into walls (metaphorically speaking), I think it’s more like “crack the whip”.
He was seen by Miss LO at an event where he was underdressed and she was looking particularly attractive and was flirting with a single man (which made him jealous and angry) and I was later greeted with, “I’m so glad I’m good enough for you, Lee!” Oh gee, thanks. How noble of you, how self-sacrificing!
Thanks Lee. Good idea about skills set. They are similar and we both enjoy good companies to work for.
Anyway let see what happened. Best scenario is that I get the job and she doesn’t. Or she get it and I don’t.
Worst scenario is we both get it as they have multiple roles. Then I will
Be stuck.
This reminds me of that scene in How I Met Your Mother – Barney’s “Mermaid Theory” – that if you spend long enough with someone, you end up finding them attractive in the end. I’ve often thought that about work place based relationships.
https://youtu.be/eJC_q8OQwU4
That is true. I remember that episode
And thought the same.
When I first my LO in 2012 I thought she is ok but not my type. Looks and personality wise.
Now it’s a different story
@irene
Thanks Irene for sharing your story. I feel for you. Sounds like yeah it was
Harmless flirting for him. It was for me at work too with my LO. Think I enjoyed the challenge of seeing if I can get her to reciprocate. As we work together it carried on and when she showed signs of reciprocity, I liked it and carried on. And then BANG about 3 months ago I realised that before she energised me and now she drains me as I feel more and more sad that I can’t have her.
We even gave each other Xmas presents. It was very sweet and I told her that. But I know it’s just her being friendly.
What do you classify as inappropriate hugs?
Glad your in a better place now. Can’t have been easy. You sound strong. There is a reason why Buddhism believes in celibate i guess. Limeremce this can mess with your head big time.
Kevin,
Any hugs made to someone you’re attracted to is inappropriate while married. Long hugs, with cheeks pressed together in deep yearning is inappropriate. He was saying “Thank you for the beautiful book I gave him”. I’m going to avoid touching him in the future. His short height is an incredible turn on to me. It’s very intimate.
It’s about My personal archetype and upbringing. My childhood boyfriend was also my best friend during high school and college. He and I were inseparable. We grew up together, developed a love of old movies and books. It was a beautiful relationship. Five years and never consummated the relationship, because we were going to wait until after we were married. After college graduation, I wanted different goals than what he had mapped out. We parted with bittersweet tears.
My LO brings back such strong childhood memories and smells from this beautiful childhood. It’s classic transference.
@irene
Sounds like you had it tough but are through the hardest part. Was this through NC?
I’ve shown lots of gestures to my LO when not knowing limerence was probably being fed. I loved finding places to take her to eat and coffee houses that I know she would like. She would come too and enjoyed it.
I kinda feel it would have been better she didn’t but because we were friends from a previous employment, then in his new job we had a more intimate friendship one can argue. Me or her didn’t go out for lunches with other colleagues on a 121.
As mentioned
Above the Xmas
Party was the painful tipping point where I realised I really am wasting my time if she doesn’t want to spend time with me as it was my ‘hope’ for reciprocal action that DR L talks about not being met that upset me.
I feel for you but also you give hope that things can get better.
Without knowing I was trying to transfer LO to someone else in the office. We message on internal chat but she hasn’t accepted any of my lunch or dinner outings. She is probably wiser.
Kevin,
No contact or very limited contact is very important. You need to find out what triggers sets off your Limerence. Avoid these types. Stop engaging with coworkers outside of work unless it’s related to business until you figure out what’s motivating you to respond this way to certain women. I actually have a new priest that is my age and is very fond of me. He openly teases me and compliments my questions in our bible class. He has a delightful sense of humor. That’s a trigger. I instantly stop joking with him. I love wit and good natured ribbing. My husband is all business and doesn’t have tolerance for nonsense. I’m instantly attracted to sociable males with certain traits. I dial it back now with all men.
I know my kryptonite.
Hi Irene
You are being strong with the priest.
The issue with limerence is that initially makes you feel good about yourself and that’s why we come back for more I guess.
So the fact you’re being strong and not responding as much is good
I think my reason for going down this route and 14 for this trap is that I enjoy the challenge of getting girls to like me. I think I realise that today after talking to you All. It’s like a challenge. I know that as last year somebody was very much interested in Me From work as we were chatting a lot online. Looking back I think I subconsciously started talking to her to transfer my LO. But that didn’t work as I almost felt I was cheating on the LO I have with today. Anyway back to last year with this other girl , when we were in a taxi going home after a night out she did try to kiss me but I didn’t and felt it was not right.
Hi
So trying out this new contact stuff that’s been recommended
We usually contact every day on weekdays and sometimes weekends
However in the last week I don’t think I’ve done too bad as I just contacted on Christmas Day to wish a Merry Christmas and got the same greeting response back.
Now trying to go for a full week. However once we are back in the office on seventh of Jan and the real challenges will start
I mean NO CONTACT stuff
Good luck with it. If you wear glasses, it helps to remove them so she becomes another anonymous blur. Fewer conversations, more workplace emails (that can and ARE read by others) also dampen down enthusiasm. If it’s only about work, it’s probably not that interesting.
Changing her contact name to “No Contact” in your phone will make it easier to ignore any weekend or after work hours texts too.
Thanks Lee for your encouragement.
I actually deleted her number from my phone 6 months ago. Which tells me that I must have known this is becoming a problem for me before I even heard of limerence. But as we are on team what’s app groups from previous company I can always acccess her number. But I just made it more difficult for myself
Problem is she will ask me for coffee or lunch after I don’t say much to her. How to respond to that. If I’m not too careful I’m worried I may even tell her that I have a soft spot for her when she asks me why I’m being aloof.
Are you both single? Sorry, I don’t recall. I’m guessing one or both of you are not.
“Problem is she will ask me for coffee or lunch after I don’t say much to her. How to respond to that.”
“No, thank you.”
*chirp-chirp*
No explanations are necessary. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
She is single I’m not but like her a lot and can be tempted to flirt and enjoy her company, praise her etc etc.
Ok. So just keep it cold then. This will
Be interesting.
Thanks. It’s cold but I know it’s for the best
You don’t have to keep it “cold,” you keep it professional. Don’t respond to her weekend emails, etc.
You can always tell her the truth, maybe not the real truth, but enough of the truth. If she asks why you’ve distanced yourself, tell her the line of professionalism is getting fuzzy and you want to get back on the right side of that line.
Now, have you done or said anything that could be professionally damaging? What happens if your wife sees those texts/emails? Is she aware that you’re contacting her on the weekends? If not, you’re on some pretty shaky turf. If she does, you can always throw your wife under the bus and tell your co-worker your wife is uncomfortable with that and asked you to stop. Out of deference, you will. Actually, you may be able to use that regardless. If the woman has any integrity, she’ll accept it and respect you for it. If she ramps up or threatens you, you know the kind of person you’re dealing with.
The question isn’t if you can get out of this, the question is do you want to?
Your co-worker may find it a relief to return to treating you as a colleague rather than a friend or buddy. She may have realized that after-hours and weekend texts to a married man isn’t healthy for her. If not immediately, then eventually. If she wants to start a serious relationship with someone, the best way is for both parties to be unmarried.
This idea is gold, Kevin.
Even if Lee’s speculation isn’t actually how LO is feeling, acting as though it is would be really effective at breaking the limerence cycle. It’s a good way of framing the situation in a way that no contact (or limited, professional contact) is good for you and good for LO, and so everyone benefits.
@Scharnhost
Thanks for this. Your so right it’s not cold it’s professional. I hope I don’t have to tell her. She leaves end of jan so I just need to see one month through and on top of that I work from hom once a week so 17 working days I have to see her. Lol
So hopefully in that time she doesn’t notice me being aloof from fun and social interactions. Although she has to give me part of my Xmas present that didn’t arrive pre Xmas so that will get the heart racing again when she gives it.
Your question about wanting to get out of it is a good one as Most of me does so as to bring back my focus in life and be under this spell but part of me wants her as I am attracted to her and how she makes me feel.
@lee and @drl
This is an awesome way to look at it. And I have wondered if She realises that going on lunches and dinners one-to-one with me makes her realise that the man she is with has a wife or whether she just sees us as good friends as we have been for years and doesn’t think anything of it. But yeah this point is an excellent one and one I haven’t considered. Maybe she too will use the Xmas period to self reflect and cool things off from jan.
But come first week of jan we will both know if we got th job offer in a new company or not.
“And I have wondered if She realises that going on lunches and dinners one-to-one with me makes her realise that the man she is with has a wife or whether she just sees us as good friends as we have been for years and doesn’t think anything of it.”
In the end, it doesn’t matter what she thinks about it. What matters is how you behave within the boundaries to which YOU knowingly committed yourself. If your marriage isn’t satisfying your every need, it’s a darn good chance that it isn’t 100% satisfying to your wife either. NO marriage is 100% satisfying to both parties. That doesn’t give either person carte blanche to ignore it entirely. (Aside: I’m not suggesting you are doing this, but I am pointing out some popular stations used by people justifying poor decisions to themselves and getting angry when they are trusted by those they are betraying – don’t go there!)
Don’t gum it with Esther Perel’s b.s. EVER or you may find yourself being discussed in very disparaging terms over at chumplady.com Ditto for LO. Also consider http://www.mustbethistalltoride.com and Matt’s 14-part letter to sh*tty husbands (it applies to wives too, but he wrote it reflecting on his part in the demise of his marriage – so it had husbands mostly in mind).
In the meantime, you are colleagues. You are giving her more personal and professional space within which you can both grow.
I hope 2019 is a good year for you. Do you think you have a good chance of landing this new job? Does it come with more money too? Fingers crossed!
Thanks Lee
Have a good chance. 4 Candidates it went to the final round and there are two roles.
So a scenario is that we both get the roles. Then I will have to decide whether to take it or not as I deal with this limerence. Best scenario is that I get it and she loses out on this occasion. Selfish I know but I don’t think I can concentrate on that if she is there as well.
Well it’s now end of the holidays and work starts again tomorrow. I found this site 1.5 weeks ago and do find a positive difference already as not feel like just sinking my head in a pillow like I did early dec. I’m still on a journey but find that I am now more aware of what’s going on and that’s because of ALL OF YOU. So thank you to all of you for your time in helping me.
Having NC for 12 days and not seeing LO has helped. She did message me today to wish HNY. I know I’ve improved My awareness as I didn’t get so excited and respond straight away. Instead i withheld and responded 6 hours later with no question. But just a gesture of good will for 2019. Was hard but I did it.
So thank you all
You’re doing great. Keep it up. Professional detachment and distance. Colleagues, not buddies.
Happy 2019!
Thanks Lee. You’ve been helpful.
So 14 days I have to go in the office where we will be in same floor together. Then she leaves at end of jan. Other days either I’m working from home or she is. Sad that I’m counting down. But also not sad as I am letting go of what has been dragging me down.
She did contact me today to tell me she got the job that we both went for. There are two vacancies. I haven’t heard and if I don’t get it then that’s cool as I can’t be dealing with starting a new job and LO in my team!
Platinum lining to those dark clouds, right? Right!
Lee – absolutely.
My slight worry is that if I don’t get it and at the same time I’m practicing NIC ( not initiating contact) then she will think it’s because of the new job thing. As she isn’t aware of my limerence. I was even thinking of disclosing But not worth it now that She is going end of jan.
Well as some of you have taken the time to support me – I wanted to share that I didnt get the role and my LO did – as they had 2 roles i was worried i would end up in a new workplace again with LO – well luckily that wont happen now – so its goodbye to LO to a different country too! Im slightly gutted i didnt get the role too because it was good job but Im trying to remember that my wellbeing and emotional state is a priority at the moment and that being with LO in a new country/new job and SO there soo would mean that there would be lots of interactions as we would all be new there settling into new country so that could have played with my mental state a lot – so its a blessing really. LO just called me too 🙁 as wanted advice on whether to take the role or not as we have always helped each other in conversations. Anyway I supported her as a friend and actually didnt feel sad speaking to her – felt a little sad afterwards but am ok. I just hope she doesnt stay too much in touch with me when she is alone in a new country / new job asking for advice etc…. Must admit I felt good being an honest friend to her. But need to carry on with NC (i havnt broken it as she rang me and i discussed matters at hand nothing more !)
” Im slightly gutted i didnt get the role too because it was good job”
I’m sorry that didn’t work out differently. Then again, you can now focus on your current job and pick up new skills or improve in areas that will lead to a better job in 2019. Maybe you won’t have to pack up the family and move to a new country in order to get a better job.
I mean – it would be a grand adventure but it may be difficult for you and your wife to both land jobs in a new country, so there is that to keep in mind. Plus kids (do you have any?) are another layer of complexity.
” I just hope she doesnt stay too much in touch with me when she is alone in a new country / new job asking for advice etc…”
I suspect she will be asking for advice from people who are already there and can recommend places they know well, etc.
You got this, Kevin.
Shame about the job, Kevin, but as you say there are a lot of positives to be taken from this outcome. Most importantly, no contact can now happen naturally, and you are free from the day to day interactions with LO. If she does “reach out” in the future, you can just take progressively longer to respond, and keep it neutral. She’ll surely find new sources of support (which is better for everyone).
You should also take a lot of pride in how well you’ve handled this episode. It’s no small thing to face an emotional challenge like this, maintain your integrity through it, and learn deep lessons about yourself. Congrats!
Kevin,
I’m sorry you didn’t get the position.
Blessings are often delivered in the form of a closed door. I am glad you handled the situation with dignity. I would think it was doubly difficult to handle Limerence, temptation and proximity to LO without children involved. You really dodged a bullet. Have a great weekend with your SO.
Thank You Irene, Lee & Dr L
Yes it possibly is dodging a bullet as the thought of me and SO in a new country, and LO in the new country (its a small country) all settling in together and meeting up socially as we wouldnt know anyone else initially terrifies me on how I would feel emotionally PLUS trying to make a mark in the new job. LO would be living on her own and i know she would be dependent on me to help with things so all works out for the best in the end.
DR L – thanks for your comments but your posts have been my source of wealth in handling this episode so your a true selfless Gentleman. Praying that you get the best of everything in life.
Hope all are well and feeling lighter…infact my aim is to make the weight of my LO feel like a mere blade of grass on my forehead as opposed to the elephant weight at the moment (which is getting smaller 🙂 )
Enjoy the weekend folks
Hi all. Need some advice please.
So still maintaining NC over the weekend but finding it hard because when LO called me about advice on whether or not to take the new job (she is worried about living on her own in the new country and managing all the domestic stuff herself as she currently lives at home ), im sure she was close to tears as I could hear it in her voice the fear that was there. She did admit to me that she had a good cry when she heard she got the job as reality kicked in for her to live alone.
Because of our close friendship I feel compelled to stay in touch with her under the circumstance and check in with her to support her but obviously I’m trying a lot harder to just be a normal colleague and maintain NC. So part of me feels I’m not being a good friend . She has not said that to me as I did give over an hour of my time on the phone call on Friday which she thanked me for but I am just feeling that I am not doing enough. I picked up the phone a number of times to message her today but I thought I would come to you guys 1st to help defuse the thoughts in my head and maintain NC. But feeling slightly guilty too for not being there for her.
Any thoughts or words of wisdom would be much appreciated.
She is frightened about living on her own? She is an adult and if this is a real fear, she needs a good counselor.
Don’t be the yo-yo to her string, Kevin.
Also, this is exactly the time and situation when a woman should reach out to her girlfriends and family. Not a clearly smitten, married male co-worker.
She knows you have more than collegial thoughts. That Christmas present to her said it all. I hope she doesn’t decide to tell your wife about it. You didn’t tell your wife you got her a bath basket and you both had a laugh about how awkward it is – right?
Plus an hour on the phone is at least 45 minutes too long.
Tread lightly and retreat.
@Lee
thanks – yeah she has been pampered a lot at home so for a 36 yr old, yet to hit the real world.
Agree about not being the YO YO – having said that she wasnt the one reaching out this weekend it was me feeling I should check in with her – but after your posts i decided not too – so thanks. I do believe she is talking to a variety of people to get opinions too.
Wife not aware of bath gifts and LO doesnt know SO so that wont happen – thats all buried now and receipts probably recycled into something else by now.
Thanks
“when LO called me about advice on whether or not to take the new job (she is worried about living on her own in the new country and managing all the domestic stuff herself as she currently lives at home ), ”
Kevin – something else to consider is that her calling you, when you were both competing for the job, is not unlike rubbing it in your face. She didn’t call you to say she thought she might not be qualified for the JOB, she called to make you think about playing house with her.
Seriously. The woman is competent enough to land this job but she can’t manage paying rent? Shipping her furniture or buying stuff there? Cooking for herself? What can she not handle? Laundry?
It makes my Spidey-senses tingle. If she should pull this again, tell her you really can’t talk right now and perhaps she should discuss it with a girlfriend who knows her better. I don’t suppose your company has some sort of employee assistance for big promotions/transfers to a new area.
This is a big promotion within your company – correct? I don’t know why I have that idea in my head. She may be leaving your current employer entirely. No matter, if it’s a whole new company they are likely to have resources available to her in order to make the transition less fraught.
Even if it was totally innocent of her (which I doubt), it is another opportunity for you to stick to your boundaries regarding work life/family and home life. I’m friends with colleagues too but you have to work out for you and your family what and when it is approaching the boundaries.
I think you envision a nice picket fence between you and this woman. Maybe someday. For now, you need a moat with a hungry moat monster, a nice tall solid stone wall with only small narrow gate and a FABULOUS tree house for you and your wife. So to speak.
You can do it.
@Lee
yeah she has been spoilt at home so doing basic things will feel new to her when living out – she will manage but it will be a journey!
Even though it was same jobs we were not really competing as for me the pay was a drop, for her it would have been more. IT would have been nice to be offered but I did tell her that other interviews I have got a more suited to my seniority. So had told her that I probably wont go for it so we were open.
And yes the new company does have a relocation team which will help so in theory i shouldnt get a lot of the questions. Plus she has 3 sisters who she is close too and talks to about these type of things.
To be fair a lot of the problem is with me as I feel like a ‘bas*ard’ not checking in with her in this once in a life time move – last year I would have but now that I am encouraged by this blog I am limiting contact to Must have only until she leaves the company end of month.
I think an hour on the phone is enough support to be honest. I’m sure she’ll appreciate that you’ve helped, and it’s now time to give her space to make the right decision for her and her life. Her leaving the country is a blessing for you, so don’t risk that by giving her reasons not to stay, especially as you know they’re not real reasons.
I had a similar situation with my LO before she left. I helped her plan the next move, set her up with numerous interviews and recommended her to someone at the firm she eventually moved to. It was an intense period of interaction for us and certainly didn’t help my limerence at all. I did feel it was the right thing to do for her, and that I could then enter NC feeling I’d looked after her as best I could. She’s very young in professional terms and needed my direction. But now it’s time she figures it all out for herself.
You have to look after no.1 here and her presence is torturing you. You need to go into proper NC as soon as you can. Realistically that’s not until she leaves, but in the meantime you need to keep contact to an absolute minimum. That’s not 1hr phone calls!
@Vincent
Ok – valid point. Funny thing was after speaking on the phone i felt good that I could be a friend like any other friend. But yeah – dont plan on any long conversations. Its because she told me she had been crying – that hit the soft side in me. Hopefully that should be it now – atleast im not initiating contact. You guys saved me today!
Oh it’s not easy at all. It will feel just as wrong as it feels right, but that’s the limerence vs the logical side of your brain fighting it out. You want to help, but ultimately you have to remember you’re helping her at the expense of yourself. You go deeper into the mire each time you share an intimate moment like her being vulnerable to you. I know it very well.
My LO was in tears whilst talking with me about her career options as it was so daunting for her. I put my arms out to hug her and she just grabbed me and hugged me so tightly. I had to walk away at that point because I could feel myself getting emotional too. It was a rare, real, genuine moment of affection. On the flip side I knew as a married man I just couldn’t be having those with another woman, and in a way it helped my resolve to end it when she moved on.
A little late to this, but delighted to see the LwL community jumping in with great advice 🙂
This is a critical moment, Kevin, as once a limerent resolves to distance themselves, LO can often have some sort of emotional crisis that starts to draw them back. A good way to look at it is that in the bigger picture the most supportive thing you can do for LO is to continue to detach. There’s no need to be cold about it – and you clearly aren’t as a 1 hr phone call is very supportive! – but to make it clear from your actions that you are no longer as available for emotional support is ultimately better for both of you. She needs to find independent help, and you being less responsive will facilitate that.
Both of you will be better off, because of your resolve. Well done for not making that call!
@Vincent
Your story is too similar to mine – but if you dont mind I will learn from you and not get too involved in her job move too as that will slow my recovery. Sounds like you are in a better place though. I like what you say about brain vs Limerence and putting myself first – will remember that.
Did you find that now that she has gone out of the office Limerence is going down at a good rate and you can see the light…?
It’s a little bit better each day. So long as I’m busy it’s OK, but then someone will mention her name and I’ll be back thinking about her again for a bit. I have noticed that I have a range of triggers still, such as when I get off the train in the mornings i usually get a few WhatsApp messages delivered at the same time, which buzzes my watch. It used to invariably be from LO with something funny, gossip or telling me she was running late. I had the buzz as I got off the train this morning and my heart raced for a brief second only for it to be a message from my mother…
Since I went NC I’ve found myself thinking about when she might get in contact – Xmas, NYE, starting her new job. They’ve all passed now and she’s not contacted me. So now there’s no real reason to contact, no event on the horizon. We might bump into each other I suppose, or she gets drunk and texts, but otherwise that’s it now. That should help get her out of my mind.
Thanks all for your help – yes Dr L is right that this community just helps each other out – you all helped me and stopped me from messaging LO yesterday so this thing is working!!
@Dr L yes this is critical phase now as I am not more educated now on Limerence and what I need to do and have resolved to remove LO out of my head and the way I feel about it all.
Im back in the office today – I did get a message this morning to say “thanks for all the support in helping me decide to go for the job or not, your a really good friend and im lucky i can call you a friend”….to which i just said no problem as usually i may have gone all sweet LOL….
anyway she is taking the job so thats good.
Until then NC initiated by me and all professional.
Have a good week all – your all awesome
@vincent – looks like your in the clear as those are milestones when LO’s and limerants can interact – the only other one is Birthdays!.
So you could be clear. If she has drunk texted before then yeah then may do – hopefully you too can avoid drunk text as that yeah is a dangerous one.
This is such a great site, thank you DrL for creating this. I’m deeply ashamed to confess I’m a serial Limerent and suffering terribly from my latest bout with this demon. It’s my darkest secret, and has poisoned my life repeatedly over the last 30 years. Now it’s the worst of the worst, I’m “in limerence” with my client…again! I do not want to be thinking about her constantly, she is not available to me for numerous reasons, not the least of which is she’s my client, we’re both married, she’s ten years younger and waaay hotter than me. How can a grown man and accomplished professional possibly fall into such an absurd situation…again?!?!
Worst of all is the guilt I feel toward my sweet, loving wife, who has no idea this is going on. She certainly does not deserve to be (emotionally & sexually) abandoned because of a ridiculous fantasy. To wit, she just popped into my office with an affogato, as I was writing this comment. What’s the emoji for feeling deep shame?
I’m really not sure what to do (other than drain this site in its entirety to learn everything I can about this psychosis). NC is not an option as I work with her daily and my livelihood depends on this. Disclosure would be torture, suicide, and deep shame all wrapped up with a bow.
This has happened to me repeatedly over the years, and has cost me more than one job and a marriage. It’s enough to make one wonder what’s the point…
Not so pathetic that I’m looking for sympathy, just looking for ideas!
Welcome Misery (as it were…)
Ha! Lots of people here have asked themselves that question. There’s a short answer and a long answer. The short one is that LO has got just the right combination of appearance and personality to connect with something deep within your subconscious, and trigger all the neurochemical storms needed for a limerence episode. The long answer is that some complicated combination of inherent traits and life experiences have set you up with just the right vulnerability for this type of person, and the only way to get to the bottom of it is to do the deep work of understanding yourself at a fundamental level. Simple!
There are some techniques for dealing with a limerence emergency in the here and now (try downloading the “Take Control” book as a good starting point if you haven’t already), and there is a lot on the site to peruse. If nothing else, it is a good diversion from ruminating about LO.
Good luck and best wishes.
First time poster deep in limerence looking for help! I am married and am limerant for a co worker who is married too. This will be my 2nd LE the first over 10 years ago now was reciprocated became an emotional affair but she was unavailable and eventually chose not to leave her SO. Cue heartbreak!
Current LO had me at first sight. Elegant, attractive and confident. A move to a new office put us on the same floor with little more than a dozen other people though there is a physical distance between us.
Our departments interact and I used that as an excuse to get to know LO better.
An afternoon work bonding event was the trigger point for me as we ended up on the same team and i got to spend time to bask in her company.
We exchanged e mails in the following months mostly initiated by me but unlike my 1st LO never crossing any line and in general my gut feeling is that LO likes me but not in the way I would want.
For the past few months we have e mail contact most days often started with a necessary work issue that I will generally turn into general coversation. We will also talk a couple of times a day in our small office as I make a point of going over to her desk once a day.
My colleagues tease me that she is my work wife although I think I am restrained in my contact.
The buzz generated by what I consider a good day with LO is amazing, a personal e mail unprompted ( rare but has happened! ) or a day where I look back and we have an e mail trail of 20 plus e mails. Or perhaps a longer physical conversation than normal.
LO has confided some personal issues to me ( uh Oh!) and I need little exuse to divulge a few personal things too. I personally dread the though of a works evening do with alcohol and everything that brings and we have spoken about standing together at such events giving each other moral support. I know however from experience that we would spend some time together but she will migrate towards more like minded party people as the evening progresses whereas I would just like everyone else in the building to leave!
I have decided to minimize contact as I cannot cope with the highs and lows and can see my relationship with SO suffering and I don’t want that. I only really want LO to feel the same about me I wouldn’t dream of being a home wrecker. No contact is impossible due to work and similar to advice on here for a week now I have not initiated e mail contact and kept any contact polite friendly but business like. I have reduced the physical visits to her but cannot cut out completely as it would just look weird. I have tried this once before recently and didn’t visit her for a day or so and got a ” are u ok? ” e mail. Of course I fell off my white charger and right back to square one , happily so as she had e mailed me !
I am more determined this time but it’s hard. She has done nothing wrong and it feels like I am sulking with her and she us sure to ask again soon what is up. Part of me wants her too of course and part of me wants that to lead to disclosure but that is definitely not a good idea. It’s a small office I know she does not mirror my feelings for her and the aftermath would be awkward . I am senior to her too which adds to the reasons not to disclose.
Writing this itself is cathartic almost and I feel this week is going to be tough even more so if she challenges me. I hope my slow staged withdrawal process is enough not to alert her too much but let’s see.
I may not be available to respond too quickly to any advice but it would be appreciated.
Hi Jamie,
It sounds like you are doing everything right now, to fade out the limerence. Staged withdrawal definitely sounds like the right strategy. The other thing I would suggest is that you start focusing more time and effort on improving your relationship with SO. Having a positive goal in that sense is going to help shift your mindset from “I’m losing LO” to “I’m regaining my marriage, which I’d been risking”.
If you need some good fodder for “deprogramming” you could try imagining that your co-workers are joking about your “work wife” to your face, but behind your back that are mocking you for your lack of self control and your pathetic lovestruck behaviour. I’m not suggesting this is true! But it’s an effective way of linking negative emotions to day dreams about LO.
Finally, you could consider disclosing to your wife. It’s a hell of a motivator to stick to the honest path, cut contact, and let’s her know what’s going on in her life. It also helps remind you that this is a mess that you have created, and re-commits you to the idea that you and your wife are a couple who work together to solve problems. More thoughts on this here.
Speaking as the spouse, disclosure is a good idea but it’s significantly better to have a plan in mind to handle the situation at work. When you disclose make certain to tell her that you have a plan and what you have done to break the cycle. Ask for her ideas. Listen to her.
Sounds as though it’s time to plan activities to do with your wife too.
At this point, I don’t agree with Jamie disclosing to his SO. If he knows where he is and is committed to getting out of the LE and improving his marriage, disclosing to his SO may not help that. Disclosing to his SO may reframe his entire marriage and maybe not positively. If she trusted him before, she may not after he discloses. You can’t automatically assume that your SO is loving, trusting, stable, and can handle surprises well.
Once you throw that switch, you can’t undo it and you may radically alter the arc of a lot of lives. You really can’t predict how your SO will react disclosure with 100% certainty. You may think you know how he/she will respond but hit the right trigger and all hell can break loose.
I remember Sophie’s husband. He didn’t think what she was doing was a big deal. Take that to the extreme and disclosure to your SO can come across as self-serving and punitive, e.g., “Why are you telling me this?” Disclosure to his SO comes with as much risk as it does benefit. And, disclosure is a risk you don’t automatically have to assume.
At this point, I’d be more concerned about his image in the office. He’s providing a source of entertainment to them. Who needs NetFlix when you can watch it and get paid for it? Toss in there’s an implied imbalance in power and someone may be able to leverage that against him.
But Scharnhorst – his colleagues are already calling her his “work wife” and if one of them makes that sort of remark around his family, or in front of Jamie’s wife at a function, before he has made changes and the snickers have died away, it could become much worse.
What’s faster than the speed of light? Gossip.
So he may not want to use the words “limerence” or “office wife” but he *may* want to tell his wife he has had flights of fancy for another woman at the office but he’s not interested in them continuing and here’s how he is ensuring he doesn’t cause any harm to the marital unit. She may smile and tell him she’s dealt with the odd office crush herself, but she chalked it up to a passing fancy. That he is the Real Deal and he is still #1 to her.
Or not. But if word gets to her through back channels, that is more likely to hurt (it’s humiliating to be the last to know) and potentially cause fallout. So at the very least, commit to your plan to backpedal and limit your emails. If anyone in the IT department read them, would you be embarrassed? Your wife?
Sticking solely to work topics is best.
“I need little exuse to divulge a few personal things too.”
Uh-oh. You need to shore up your boundaries. If you wouldn’t share the same information with LO if your wife was at your side, then don’t share them at all. Think of it as safeguarding your marriage. Plus that is courting behavior. “Getting to know you, getting to know all about you!” Nice in songs and movies, not so great when you’re already in a committed relationship.
“I personally dread the though of a works evening do with alcohol and everything that brings”
Stay away from alcohol at those work functions at all costs. It won’t help your situation.
You can pump the limbic brakes. That’s why we have big wrinkly brains – to override our impulses.
Lee,
I agree with you about inadvertent disclosure at a work function. He’s in a minefield and he’ll have to actively manage getting out of it. Disclosure is not the only way out of it.
Risk = Threat x Vulnerability x Consequence
If his co-workers pose a threat of disclosure, he can reduce his risk by disclosing to his SO or he can keep the threat (i.e. coworkers) away from the vulnerability (i.e., SO) until the snickers die down. But, disclosure to his SO comes at a different risk. He should also prepare for the possibility of inadvertent disclosure. One thing that made my LE easier to deal with was there were no professional implications for me to have to consider.
As Sophie pointed out, Jamie knows his situation better than we do and DrL covers a lot of it in the blog she linked.
@Jamie
Only you know your situation well enough to know whether disclosing to SO would be helpful, and your motives for disclosing.
The LE made me realise that my marriage hadn’t been working – long before LO arrived on the scene.
Disclosing to SO, once I finally got through to him that it was a big problem, eventually lead to us having marriage counselling which really has helped a lot.
My other reason for disclosing was that thanks to the honesty of one of my closest friends, I knew I needed therapy. I needed SO on board with me having therapy as spending £50/week on that when I was earning £70/week at the time, meant I definitely needed his support!
The accountability aspect has helped too.
Just because it was the right thing for me, doesn’t mean it’s the right route for everyone. Dr L has a brilliant post on that https://livingwithlimerence.com/2018/05/15/should-you-disclose-to-your-significant-other
Good luck!!
Thank you everyone for their advice. I do not currently plan to disclose to either SO or LO. Both are entries into the unknown where currently I feel i can put the brakes on and withdraw tactfully from LO without arousing suspicion. Remaining business like and friendly but no more personal disclosures and definitely no work events with alcohol.
There is one function a year with families and I want to be in a position that I am comfortable at that event not worried by any potential meeting
I hope I am not too late to move away from the work wife tag though I realise this may stick a little.
I am committed to my plan of subtle withdrawal and focusing more attention on my SO and am actively looking forward to that. I just hope I can lessen the contact without offending SO or raising suspicion but I will have to deal with that if and when it arises.
For now I just take one day at a time..
Sounds like a good plan.
Since you two talk, is she aware of any of your hobbies, interests, etc.?
If she is, you frame your reduced contact in that context. Do you play golf? Tell her your new goal is to break 80 and you’re spending time online reading golf tips. Go out for lunch and buy some tees. Come up with a viable reason for not hanging around her office. Got kids? Tell her you’ve been researching college funding options. Look at a few to have some browser history. Tell her your thinking of remodeling the bathroom and you’re looking at tile samples. (That’s a really good one since most men would rather die than look at tile samples but stay away from fabric stores. No woman will believe that). Stay away from common interests.
The point is don’t make reduced contact about her.
Sounds like a solid plan and I hope it works in the near and long-term. Best wishes to you and yours.
Hi All
Some of you will remember that I posted about LE for a co worker and that she was gonna leave the company end of Jan 2019 . So she did and I had limited contact which helped.
She got a job in a great company abroad… But… I also did too and started a month after her in the same place.
I had to weigh up the opportunity Vs my Limerence and the opportunity won.. but now I dont have LC like I did when we were not in the same work place.
Plus we are in new country so have been helping each other out although I have been a bit reserved in that. My SO coming soon in a month too. Im being careful but keep finding myself getting down when I should be excited and happy about new career and new country….. we are not exactly in same team but our teams work hand in hand.
Luckilyh its a big campus with no fixed seating so not always in the same space as LO 8 hours a day which is good. But still, she does message me about having lunch and getting train together and spending spare time now and then (she is not becoming needy or anything actually)….
Im going to reign it in and hope she doesnt notice as much as she too will make new friends as well and less reliance on me….but like i said she is not all reliant on me as she has been here a month anyway – but in my first week she was ever so caring about me settlign in etc… which was nice and made me down as Limerence came back and I knew i cant have her.
Any tips on what to do and rules / boundaries i shoudl have for myself. One rule I did since 1 Jan is not inititiaing contact unless work related – that I have done till now and broken twice since then before coming to new country – so i can stick to my rules.
I have signed up for the course too.
any advice thoughts workds of encouragement – welcome
thanks
“Ever since his admission, he would refer to (co-worker) in present tense, all the while claiming he wasn’t in touch. Perhaps he wasn’t, but she was still very much in his mind. I finally realized I don’t want to be in a relationship with somebody who is constantly thinking about another woman. It took me a while, after having my soul broken and stomped on, to realize that I am strong.
I believed myself strong to stay, but I was strong enough to leave.”
For those who are preoccupied with another person, to the detriment of their primary intimate relationship – this may eventually apply to you. Is it worth it?
So as some of you know from my other comments, I’m lime rent for a co-worker 20 years my junior (I’m her boss’s boss). We’ve gone out on dates and made out for a week but then after a period of hot and cold (mostly cold), she’s told me she’s met someone else but she still wants to be “BFFs in the office”. During the long downside tail of our relationship, I became increasingly depressed and anxious, texting with little to no answers. I eventually sought therapy and also found this wonderful site.
We’ve now had 2 weeks of NC (only because she was on holiday) with no texts either way. I had made an action plan in advance of her coming back today (moving desks, booking external lunches, etc.) but she ended up being home sick! It feels very anti-climactic. Of course, I know I partly wanted to see her and that’s why I’m disappointed. The impulse to text her, scroll through old pictures or slip into a daydream is stronger than ever. I’ve resisted so far.
My therapist also made a few observations that may be relevant to others limerent for co-workers: by implicitly disclosing, I’ve handed her a hand grenade with which she can blow up my family, my career and the rest of my life at any time of her choosing. My therapist is convinced this is an enabling LO, needing validation and keeping a coterie of interested men like me in orbit around her. My therapist therefore also cautioned that full NC or LC could make LO feel rejected and she could lash out. So she advised, for example, keeping my plan of moving desks but still asking LO how her holiday was. This balancing act is going to be more difficult than I thought…
Ask your therapist if she recommends the Grey Rock Method. Unfortunately, your LO has leverage and may decide to use it. At this point, your goal may be to drift as far down on her list as you can get and live with it.
But, listen to your therapist.
Fred, very few people understand limerence and that includes therapists unfortunately. She’s almost certainly right in her diagnosis, that she’s an enabling LO who wants validation from lots of men. But you have to do what’s best for you. Be civil sure, but follow your plan. Move desks, draw the boundaries that should have been there, and make it clear with your actions that the relationship is now strictly professional. She’s met someone else anyway, she’ll move on to a new office BFF sure enough, and she’ll eventually get bored and leave and then you’ll be free. Keep your eyes of the limerence-free prize.
Thanks Scharnhorst and Vincent. I googled “Grey Rock Method” and it may be an option although it’s very out of character for me as I take the stage every Friday and present to my extended team, usually lead every meeting I’m in, regale my colleagues with colourful anecdotes etc.
And Vincent, thanks for bolstering my strategy. I know seeing her with a new office BFF will be hard but that is my way out. I too believe she’ll be bored and leave – that seems consistent with her personality and her statements. However, she’s only been here four months so it may be a while… In the meantime, I’ll draw the boundaries and try to choose the correct course of action in all my moments of choice.
Wow she doesn’t waste time! Only just arrived in the office and already made out with her boss’ boss!! There’s a chance she’s cynically planned all of this of course, gone straight to the top to curry favour. No wonder she wants to stay BFFs, suits her career plans I’m sure.
I say all of that having been in the same position. My LO, 20 years younger, effectively hooked me in over the course of about 6m and I eventually brought her into my team. It wasn’t ever physical but I think there were daddy issues at play, and a colleague referenced it the other day saying that “she clearly loved having you looking after her”. Which I thought was an interesting observation. If I could go back I’d draw the boundaries and not get intimate and co-dependent in the way we did.
You’ve got a chance to correct things now before it all blows up. In fact, you should read this comment to me when I was at your stage from a poster called Mark:
https://livingwithlimerence.com/2018/07/19/displacement-activities/#comment-1966
Thanks Vincent – that was very helpful and thanks for linking to Mark’s comment as well.
Yeah, she didn’t waste any time: I think our summer party was 3 weeks after she joined: she made sure to sit next to me and after a few drinks tell me that her last “boyfriend” was my age (20 years older than her) and her boss too… We were only mildly inappropriate at that party and still I felt a pit in my stomach come Monday morning. Now we’ve had multiple dates outside work, escalating to some passionate kissing and touching – so I’m literally at her mercy at this stage.
I hear she’s well enough to come back to work tomorrow so that’s when my deep work, reading this site, going to therapy and following Dr. L’s course all comes to a head. Balancing a staged withdrawal to limited contact while not pissing her off will be a tough act. But then again, she hasn’t texted me these last 2 weeks and our last conversation was about her saying she’s moved on and all this angst is just in my head… (Then a wonderful warm hug and a revealing, super cute picture of her walking down the street on WhatsApp)
Sorry to use this as my daily journal but writing about my struggles and hearing from y’all really helps me.
So LO was supposed to come back to the office today after two weeks holiday (NC) and two days off sick. I got to the office early (she’s always late) and went to my new desk on another floor. Has an early external meeting so I press the down button on the elevator and when the doors slide open, guess who’s the only one in there, ready to get off? That’s right. LO. To quote Depeche Mode, “I don’t want to start any blasphemous rumors but I think that God’s got a sick sense of humor…”
I’m pretty proud of myself though. No hug, just a friendly “How was your holiday?” and then excusing myself as I had to run to my meeting. So a “step up” in moment of choice! Seeing her brought everything back though. I admit I stammered, my heart is racing, the elevator still had her scent and how my presentation at this external meeting will go is anybody’s guess.
As I walked to the tube I repeated my mantra: “I’m not special to her. She’s bad for me. She’s like a drug. She’s heroin. She can destroy my family and my career.” But damn if she isn’t all glimmery and sparkly too… :/
Well done!
Mantra’s are good. When I first went NC, my mantra was “Stay away from that woman!” It worked ok. But, she’s in the mantra.
Since I had some mini-relapses recently, I needed a new mantra. My new mantra when I start thinking of her is, “You have better things to do.” No focus on her.
Fred, it certainly is a struggle. Many of us used (and still use) this site as a way to release feelings. And I used (and still use) this site to hear from others on their own situations. I can relate so much to how you are feeling, and I reflect upon how I would have done anything to “fix” my mind. ANYTHING. I feel that I owe it to others to “pay it forward” by acknowledging that I’m listening and I will try to share whatever relevant info that I can. Coming to this site also allows me to focus on whatever remains of my LE, and what I need to/should be doing.
It is unfortunate that managing this condition is similar to having an extra full-time job (with overtime) when you don’t really have the time. I hope your meeting went well.
Thanks Scharnhorst. Mantras are good and can both break reverie and help you “behave” in moments of choice. I sometimes say them out loud.
I ran into LO again as I was going out to lunch. I was chatting to another attractive female colleague so I was in a “position of strength”. LO kinda grimaced at me as I side stepped to let her pass (showing off her bare mid-riff ‘natch).
One interesting observation: She wore sunglasses in both our interactions so I haven’t seen her eyes today which of course would tell me a lot (and as we know the glimmer is often tied to the eyes). Don’t know if she’s hiding her feelings or trying to disconnect (or just trying to look cool). I do know my most vivid memories of kissing her were her eyes, wet with abandon with dilated pupils. And now they’ve been hidden from me. Good, I guess. :/
Thanks Thinker. Your support really means more than you know – I certainly appreciate it, especially as my situation seem quite similar to yours. The meeting actually went ok. Next week, we’re welcoming a group of students doing a 6w internship which I’m sponsoring but LO is project managing. And they will sit on my new floor so she’ll have a reason to come up there… Oh well, more opportunity to practice my tactics and moments of choice.
So final update for the day. LO reached out via our company chat re the project she is managing and where she wanted me to present our company strategy. Entirely reasonable. I answered professionally and after half an hour delay (according to plan) but had to swing by to go thru the slides. Once her boss left we chatted a little about her holiday and then we walked out of the office together. Luckily two other colleagues called me back so I left her on the landing where she patiently waited for me until I texted her that I was stuck (aw!). She sent me a cute picture of her and a cat and despite promising otherwise I responded immediately, again being the last to text. Damnit. But it could’ve gone a lot worse and those two colleagues saved me from another “down step” on the road to recovery I suppose, but I am a little disappointed in myself.
” I texted her that I was stuck (aw!). She sent me a cute picture of her and a cat…”
Yeah, don’t beat yourself up for slipping a little. She wanted that reply from you or she would have let it go without comment, or a generic reply. Sending a CUTE photo of HERSELF and a cat is a blinking neon sign to get your attention and to make it very difficult for you to ignore her.
Practice, Grasshopper. Lots of practice. Don’t cross that t! Don’t dot that i!
Fred,
Does your phone have a timer? Next time you get a non-work related text from her, set the timer for 10 minutes. When it goes off, see if you still want to respond. If you do, set it for another 10 minutes. Keep doing it until the urge goes away. If she asks you in person why you didn’t respond, lie to her and say you were in the middle of something or tell her you wanted to wait until you saw her in person.
Excellent technique, Scharnhorst, I’ll try that one too.
Thanks for the support Lee. Yeah, I think I can let that one slide. And that’s a good idea Scharnhorst. I even have a timer in my Apple Watch.
Having survived my first LO day after NC, I think I may survive this. I also finally got practical experience of what Dr L and y’all have been advising. It’s only now the penny has dropped. I don’t have to think or feel right, I just have to ACT right. If in every interaction, I don’t take or allow the conversation in the wrong (intimate) direction and if I don’t text or seek meetings outside work the. It doesn’t matter that my heart is breaking, that my mind is racing and I feel like shit. Actually doing the right thing will in time lessen those feelings. It’s a tough struggle but like the AA says “it works if you work it”!
We can do this
After many starts and stops I’ve got the following boundaries which i learnt from Dr L’s course. May help you and not make you feel so bad and give the impression of going cold turkey
– no initiating non work messages
– if she initiates non work message I cap to 7 responses only so be brief, informative and friendly
– only group lunches and coffee breaks so the conversations are more diluted
I’m on day 17. Yes I’m tracking it. Reinforces to me that I can do this and build my confidence.
It’s hard yes. Very. But what’s harder is seeing the vision of where I could be in six months time if I don’t take no action and how my life will deteriorate.
Thanks Kevin! It helps to know others are “working it” at the same time. I’m on Day 21 of deciding to do something but the first 18 were NC “gifted me” by LO being away. I agree it helps to have easy to remember rules of thumb. Mine are similar to yours except I only have a 10 min delay on answering if she initiates text messages and I have also added the obvious “no social media”.
So yesterday at a team dinner (no LO), when my direct reports got tipsy enough to work up the courage, they asked me what was going on with LO. One of the most junior even called her “your fling” but quickly backtracked when I asked what he meant. I was mortified (and obviously not as discrete as I thought). Turns out they were referencing the summer party and how she’d been all over me there (where nothing actually happened) so I could honestly deny it. One of my female direct reports was particularly direct and said it was obvious LO liked me the best of all the interested men in the office, much to the dismay of the “young stallions” and that lots of people thought she was a “gold digger” for going after a C-level exec so publicly and obviously.
So with this knowledge, I guess all of our (less innocent) lunches, coffee breaks, chats by her desks etc are seen by others in the office as confirmation / continuation of what they thought they saw at the summer party. And while they’re wrong about that particular event (I behaved responsibly and got her home safe when she was a bit too drunk) they’d be right about the rest as we then flirted and dated our way to second base (outside the office) and then had a slow motion car crash of our relationship as LO went cold and started to withdraw.
Good thing she was so adamant we’d never make out surreptitiously in the office…
My female colleague also said LO was “drop dead gorgeous” which made me feel oddly proud…
Fred, This is a good wake up call for you to really work on getting over LO. She already holds the grenade in her hands to blow up your life, that’s bad. But you don’t want to lose the respect of your peers and stakeholders at work and be defined through that.
“(I behaved responsibly and got her home safe when she was a bit too drunk)”
Oh stars and stones – this is what cabs, uber and lyft are for! To keep people from being in compromising situations that could lead to police reports and ugly expensive public washing of dirty laundry. No one looks good under a microscope.
Yeah, she has the grenade and is probably playing with the idea of pulling the pin.
“She can destroy my family and my career.”
Don’t think she doesn’t know it too. In fact, you’ve gone to second base with her, your subordinates and colleagues have twigged to your fascination with her, there are jealous younger men – you never know when or who will tell your SO (it sounds like you have one and I can’t remember if you do or not).
The event gives you a potential way out. The next time you and your LO chat, you tell her that people have seen what’s going on and have started talking. That doesn’t look good for either of you and from now on your behavior becomes beyond reproach and mean it.
The upside is it’s not a direct attack on her. If she insists on pursuing the LE, you may want to talk to HR. I’d also be looking at ways to get rid of her. Can you ship her far away and make it look like it’s to her advantage?
You need to drive the bus before she does.
Or, scharnhorst, she might actually see him saying it looks bad as a thrill, a leverage. It could show that Fred is scared word gets out and uses that against him.
If co-workers ask her what’s been going on, it is likely she spills the beans and tells one of the others about it. If one person knows, everyone knows. People talk, unfortunately.
Ok now you’re freaking me out people, which is probably a good thing. Last week my therapist said I should be afraid every time I look at her and act accordingly.
My story is scattered across different blog posts and comments but yeah I have an SO. My LO blew hot and cold after a week of reciprocation then mostly cold then after weeks of agony and unanswered texts told me she’d met someone else but not to worry as we could still be BFFs in the office. So she’s ended the LE (her part at least) and I’m left trying to pick up the pieces of myself that aren’t beyond repair.
We work together so NC doesn’t work but I’m working on withdrawal to LC and have had no social media or other contact for 18 days. She seems to mostly be avoiding me too, wearing sunglasses indoors, dodging eye contact etc so I just have to keep up LC and make the right choices in moments of choice. Like I said in another comment, I guess it doesn’t matter what I think or feel or how much I hurt as long as I do and act and say the right things that will put my on the path to recovery and towards the end of this LE.
Today was tough though as I cried at my therapy session and then bumped into her as I came back to the office and she stood there, glibly unaware of all the turmoil, midlife worries, unrequited yearning she’s unleashed in me.
“I should be afraid every time I look at her”
I think you have it lucky; I AM afraid every time I look at my LO, and I spend most of the year in school with her. It’s hell. I would love to be not terrified when I saw or heard her.
What did you therapist have to say about your SO?
What has your SO said since this set in? If she used to bring up that you seemed “off” but she hasn’t said anything in awhile and/or she seems a bit flat, you may be in the eye of the hurricane. Seriously, word may have gotten back to her and she may be running a relationship calculus program.
Neither of these are questions you are obligated to answer, obviously, but you may want to consider them to some degree.
“My female colleague also said LO was “drop dead gorgeous” which made me feel oddly proud…”
If your SO gets wind of that statement and your response…
“wearing sunglasses indoors”
That isn’t subtle. It invites questions from others and then *sniff*, *a little sob that catches in her throat*, *rapid blinking*, your goose could be cooked.
Treat her like a bomb – not a bombshell.
I love the fact that Lee always has the SO in focus. This is what it comes down to, think about SO. Think about SO and what this means to her, how much you hurt her with this (Lee, I needed this reminder too, thank you)
Thanks Lee. We haven’t really talked much about SO yet in therapy. Focus has been on surviving the here and now but we started doing deep work yesterday so no doubt it will come up. No I don’t think SO knows or suspects. I’ve been with the firm less than a year and she hasn’t even met anyone there. Regardless, of course I’m trying to rekindle our relationship and focus more on her. My therapist says she usually works with minimizing shame but in my case she wants me to feel more shame for what I’ve done to SO.
You’re welcome Sarah. I know Mr. Lee has a history of treating me and our kids like toys he can put on a shelf and expect us to be in stasis or something until he is ready to play with us. He often was angry that he was cut out of our lives when he was busy immersed in his world. You can only ask, invite, beg and cajole so often before you stop extending a hand, accept that the answer is always “no – I don’t want to, you deal with it!” before you believe it. Don’t phone it in! He still complains sometimes but subsides when I point out that I was the one logging the hours of time, money, conversations, P/T conferences, dentists, doctors, I kept up with my interests, family, friends and career, etc. while he was huddled in the den (feeling sorry for himself or angry that we weren’t sitting around gazing at him adoringly).
“My therapist says she usually works with minimizing shame but in my case she wants me to feel more shame for what I’ve done to SO.”
Well, that’s a relief. After all, feeling up another woman behind your wife’s back is a violation of the marital contract of exclusivity. At least she isn’t blaming your wife for her part in making you sneak around.
So…have you read up the HR manual? She has texts on her phone – will any of them get you fired, divorced or both? Is there any way to get yourself as far away from her within your job as possible? If shr gets transferred she could claim it is retaliatory for ending the “coziness”. If she gets promoted it will demoralize others on your team and possibly make them very angry because she would have effectively have “slept her way” up the career ladder. Anything you do re: HER career or position can blow up. Specta ularly. What can you control within YOUR position description?
Gah – what a frightening situation.
“…wearing sunglasses indoors…” sounds like she is a little drama queen. Like that’s not going to draw attention to her having peers ask her. If her colleagues start to suspect something, they will ask her about it. People are noisy.
Try your hardest to LC as much as you can, avoid being alone with her at all cost, and ALWAYS stay professional. Treat her like you would anyone else.
Yep she’s a little drama queen alright. And one hell of an enabling LO.
Thanks for the advice and the support. My problem is although I know what the right thing to do is, I secretly just want to get back in her good graces and carry on where we left off. So I just need to act right, even if I feel wrong. My therapist says to try to distance myself from her not ensnare her again. Wise woman.
I’m in the same boat, Fred. Not over LO yet. And in dangerous waters tomorrow. Head’s spinning. Must stay strong myself. Look… Mind over matter, you can do it!
Thanks Sarah. Hope it went well today.
Hey guys! I’ve been quiet for a week. Guess which of these things I’ve been doing: 1) Living purposefully; 2) Diving headfirst back into LE with LO. Yeah, sorry Dr. L but it’s the latter.
So in my therapy session last week, she suggested that all this obsessing about NOT obsessing about LO was actually keeping me engaged in the LE. That the mantras, forcing away thoughts or reveries and even posting here on LWL.com was a way of staying in the LE instead of focusing on the root problem of my marriage not being satisfying. Instead I should normalise things with LO, keep withdrawing and not fret so much about it all.
I’m not saying my therapist was wrong but in trying to normalise things with LO, I started noticing all the glimmery things that made me go crazy for her to begin with. We met up in the office, she texted me to say how happy she was to have me to talk to and confide in, how she could be herself with me. We planned and met up for lunch.
I know people, I know. It went from “Oh, this is nice. We’re friends.” to “Wonder how I can spice things up again” to “OMG you’re perfect in every way, why don’t you want me?!”. She even sent me a selfie from the shower (expert angles though so no naughty bits showing).
At lunch yesterday, she was finally open to talking about why things with us ended so soon and why she went cold. (Lee, you’ll like this). She said she actually tried to see things from my perspective, being married with kids, and realised I was in over my head and backed off and tried to cool things down as I was going full speed ahead (limerent that I am). Which actually was kinda sweet. She said I shouldn’t beat myself up about anything I said or did but rather that my situation didn’t allow us to go further. She grasped my hand and said we clicked mentally, emotionally and that our physical attraction was both powerful and electric but that it couldn’t be. And now she was in love with someone else. I don’t think you get more (or better) closure than that folks.
I got to experience my devastation all over again. I’m not OK but it was important for me to know what I’d experienced and thought I saw in her eyes those nights was real and not just a figment of my imagination. And that she was being the more adult of the two of us (despite being 20 years younger). I’m not sure how to end this rambling post but that’s where we are. She’ll be in the office Monday. I’ll be in hell.
I’m not either, but her advice did put you right back in harm’s way! Good that the outcome was OK, and I hope the closure means you’re able to manage your limerence come Monday. Lucky that LO didn’t suggest one last fling, though, eh…?
You might also want to delete the shower selfie 🙂
He should archive somewhere in case he needs evidence she was not an innocent party.
Good point. I need to up my cynicism quota.
Following up on the therapist advice:
I get the sentiment here. It’s not dissimilar to “focus on your own purposeful goals”, but the suggestion to normalise things with LO suggests that the therapist is a non-limerent.
“Just drink socially and don’t worry about it so much”.
Thanks guys. I guess there was also a difference in how the advice was given and how I implemented it. My therapist did not want me to go to lunch or start texting LO. She wanted me to stop fretting about not doing so. I just failed to draw the line and choose wisely in several moments of choice.
Yep, it’s definitely wise to work on making LO less central, and that is where the purposeful living pillar of recovery comes in. You have to have positive pursuits of your own to act as an attractive goal, as well as doing the work of making rumination and interactions with LO more negative.
You better do something with that shower selfie to underscore it was unsolicited because your SO will rightly throw you out for it.
Oh wait, you charged a flight for LO to/from Paris for her too. You might as well tell your wife, “I’d like you better if you weren’t so old and used up. Here is your competition. Now dance!”
I have no words for you.
For your wife though – http://www.chumplady.com and to seek an attorney.
“She said I shouldn’t beat myself up about anything I said or did but rather that my situation didn’t allow us to go further. She grasped my hand and said we clicked mentally, emotionally and that our physical attraction was both powerful and electric but that it couldn’t be. And now she was in love with someone else. I don’t think you get more (or better) closure than that folks.”
You MPDG put you on notice. She “closed the books.” You’ve been warned. If you say or do anything and it blows up on you, she’ll say it was your fault. It won’t matter if she starts it, she warned you. You choose to ignore the warning and it’s your problem, not hers.
Checkmate.
Your LO is good. She tells you she loves someone else, yet continues to send you shower selfies. “Stop trying to get close to me, but continue to dream about me”. I’m amazed she got you to think she’s the adult and you’re the messed up one. She’s in control, you’re still her puppy. She managed to tell you to stay away, yet hooked, so she can still ensure you’ll do anything to advance her career and do favors for her whenever she needs it.
It would not surprise me if she keeps on sending you “cute pics” of herself to just keep the Fire burning.
Yup. So just to be totally transparent about what a limerent sucker I am, LO had been planning to fly to Paris to visit her new boyfriend all week. She’s broke so he was buying her tickets. She told me all about getting her hair done, curing her cold, shaving her legs to get ready for him. Then the tickets fell through on Friday – her day of travel – and her wallet was at home and her PayPal account was empty. Guess who slid his AmEx across the table? (“Nooooooo!”) Yes, yours truly. So now I’m paying (a loan) for LO to go see her new boyfriend instead of me. Only LO fucked up and booked the return leg instead so she now can’t go. Boohoo.
All Friday night she’s texting me how she’s so alone and was so looking forward to this weekend. Saturday I shoot her a WhatsApp text saying I hope you’re feeling better today. No answer all day. In the evening, she’s running an open Instagram live chat with some rapper in Atlanta, sipping white wine and laughing. Oh, weird. She didn’t respond to my WhatsApp… maybe she hasn’t logged on there. Oh, she’s updated her profile picture to a new cute selfie but she hasn’t read my messages or responded to me…
Grrrrr. More fuel for deprogramming but damn if it doesn’t hurt.
Fred, what has helped me more than anything is seeing a therapist who specializes in OCD, to treat the obsessive-compulsive component of my limerent condition with cognitive-behavioral therapy. My regular (non-specialist) therapist was wise and kind and helped me a lot with my efforts to repair my marriage, but I’ve also needed this OCD/CBT specialist to help me tackle my residual intense obsession with LO. She gets it about the nature of limerence, and her approach is working well for me. What a relief.
Is that a possibility for you?
Oh, it definitely hurts, but as you know that’s the cornerstone to reprogramming. Mentally linking LO to pain not reward.
Another useful thought: I’m sure in the moment you felt like you were doing a kind thing to help LO and just enjoyed the warm fuzzies of making her happy. Now, though, you have written down in plain text what actually happened. You paid for your LO to go and visit her boyfriend. How would an impartial stranger (or partial spouse) react to reading that?
Take a moment to step outside yourself and really process how that would look to an outside observer. Is that the kind of man you want to be?
I have no words, Fred. I second DrL’s question, think about how this would look from an outsider’s perspective. Do you want to be that person that they see?
And also think from your SO’s perspective… what would your SO or kids think?
When this is revealed to your spouse and kids (make no mistake about it, she will do so the instant she sees an advantageous to do so) how will they view your motivations?
How about your employer? Employees? Friends?
I think she has a whole stable of rich older guys who she can tap for plane tix and vacations and money anytime she wants.
I bet that she sent her shower selfie to all of them. Over/under is five, any takers?
I have counted at least 5: the long-time admirer/friend; the minor prince in London; the latest Persian businessman in Paris; her former boss who owns a chain of Asian hospitals and me (I’m not that rich though).
Yeah, I get how bad it was everyone. Really, I do. That’s why I hesitated and posted this particular failure in a separate post. And yes, Dr L, even writing it in plain text here made me cringe at myself. We live in Europe Lee so this is a $160 plane ticket and LO will pay me back. Not that that ameliorates the situation. But in particular her treatment of me after this act of idiotic generosity has raised my hackles and helped me see her more for what she is. My long-time friend who knows all about the situation was just shaking his head today, saying I got what I deserved and that he never understood what I saw in her. Consider me duly chastised.
It isn’t the amount Fred, it is the principle.
Fred you’re taking some stick here, and that’s because when you look at your decisions and her manipulative behaviour objectively it all seems so obvious to the detached observer.
I will offer you some empathy though. I was where you are last year – I knew the relationship was wrong, I knew I was making bad decisions and other aspects of my life were suffering, such as family and career. But I couldn’t stop myself. That’s addiction for you. Hard to be sympathetic if you haven’t experienced it.
I think you have some way to go here unfortunately. It’s all happened pretty quickly for you and you’re not thinking straight. You haven’t reached that point where you truly resolve to sort yourself out. It will come, probably after LO makes you feel like an old fool a few more times. You’ll snap in the end, feel utterly pathetic and hit rock bottom. But then you’ll bounce off the floor, and start the long road back.
Try to keep your distance, keep talking to people, posting on here so you get some reality and perspective and start digging deep and figuring out your priorities. You’ve got a fight on here. With yourself.
I am in agreement with Vincent here. Although I never went quite to the extreme as Fred, all my morals went out the window, I was making really risking decisions and disrespecting a lot of people in the meantime. All for a hit of LO. Yes it’s pathetic and selfish but like Vincent said it is an addiction and something you feel you have no control of. At the time I had no care for anyone elses feelings. I was totally and utterly deluded. In my crazy mind I would have given up my right arm for LO. You really do need to sit down and have a really stern word with yourself. She is making a fool out of you and really if you carry on in this way you will be left with nothing and the regret will run deep.
Thanks Vincent and Rachel for the empathy. No, I’m not proud of my recent choices. I’m limerent. Everyone’s comments and LO’s total lack of gratitude or respect over this weekend has indeed been a wake-up call. Now that I have whatever “closure” I will ever get and sordid proof of what a lack of LC and control can lead to, I will dust off my worksheets from Dr L’s emergency deprogramming course and chalk these last two weeks as one giant step back down into LE and restart my ascent anew. Thanks everyone for being appropriately harsh with me.
We’re here for the social accountability whenever you need it, Fred.
Might be worth reviewing the course session on “relapses and resistance” too 🙂
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You just have to look good in turtlenecks.
Brilliant Scharnhorst
Nobody likes being ‘chumped’ which is why Lee always directs limerents to the CL website to get a strong dose of what the SO experience is like.
Fred just got chumped by his LO. Ironically, that experience powerfully counteracts limerence.
It helps me with my LE, for sure. I hate getting played for an idiot, so when I sense my LO taking advantage of my idiot limerent brain, the fog of stupidity rapidly clears.
Being able to feel anger towards the LO is a sign of recovery!
“It helps me with my LE, for sure. I hate getting played for an idiot, so when I sense my LO taking advantage of my idiot limerent brain, the fog of stupidity rapidly clears.”
Being played for an idiot is bad enough. When they go after your self-respect, it’s even worse.
My father told me that the single most important thing we have is self-respect. Boundaries protect it, you don’t let anybody take it, and you don’t put up with anybody who tries.
I was willing to take LO #2 back right up to the point where I realized that doing that would come at the cost of my self-respect. Nobody is worth that so she had to go. If I ever found myself back on the market, it’s the single most important reason I don’t think I’d ever re-engage LO #2. Returning to her would be a humiliating personal defeat.
Plus what if you sought her out and she sent you packing. Or didn’t recollect you at all.
Some doors are much better screwed shut.
“Plus what if you sought her out and she sent you packing. Or didn’t recollect you at all.
Some doors are much better screwed shut.”
To re-engage LO #2, my life would have to go in the tank so badly that I was so desperate as to think she had something to offer me and I would turn to her. I hope to God I never find myself in that position.
With respect to the former, if I did it, it wouldn’t surprise me if she sent me packing or ignored me entirely. She’s married now. Even if she weren’t, she declined every other offer I ever made her that mattered. With respect to the latter, I don’t think so. If she spends any time back in the 80s, she can’t escape me. I own that decade.
Screws? That door is welded shut.
I hope you used armor plating too!
You better do something with that shower selfie to underscore it was unsolicited because your SO will rightly throw you out for it.
Oh wait, you charged a flight for LO to/from Paris for her too. You might as well tell your wife, “I’d like you better if you weren’t so old and used up. Here is your competition. Now dance!”
I have no words for you.
For your wife though – http://www.chumplady.com and to seek an attorney.
Today’s letter may hit home for some.
“She said, “Mom, what do you do if you are married and you find yourself falling in love with someone else? What if you did marry the wrong person?”
I tried to tell her that you end one relationship before beginning another. And then she said, “But what if you’re not sure?”
“Tell your daughter to quit untangling the Schmoopie skein. “Cheating is wrong.”
That’s your answer.
“Cheating is wrong.”
Period. Full stop. Cheating is wrong if you’re married, it’s wrong if you’re stealing petty cash from company funds, it’s wrong if you’re trying to buy your way into an Ivy League.”
“Your indecision does not give you a pass to abuse people. Cheating is wrong. You’re not sure? Then you have some hard decisions to make — and you have to give some things up — like security and the services of the Wrong Person you are married to.”
https://www.chumplady.com/2019/09/when-youre-married-and-fall-in-love-with-someone-else/
Lee, this is where CL sometimes goes wwaaayy overboard. From that same post, here’s a sample:
“Also, 17-year-old daughter — adults don’t fall in love unless they’ve f****d. That’s what adults do — they have sex. So, the fucking happens before the “falling in love.” That’s cheating. Again, refer to “Cheating Is Wrong.”
Many or most of the limerents on this site haven’t had sex at all with their LO. Yet they’re struggling with strong feelings for the LO, and realize the inappropriateness of those feelings–which are identical to being in love. They’re desperately looking for a way out! They’re not the enemy, limerence itself is.
For me, the feelings of limerence crept up on me during ordinary day-to-day interactions with a co-worker. But I felt like I was falling in love, and PRIOR to it becoming an EA, I realized that I had to do something. I googled “how to fall out of love” and found this site.
LWL is great because DrL treats a painful situation with humor and a certain amount of judgment-free detachment.
CL is good because it slaps us in the face with the pain we’ve either caused, or are about to cause. But it goes over the top with the hate and vengefulness, and sometimes it’s plain wrong.
Yes, but remember the goal is to get “Meh”. It is a journey to look at someone who screwed you over and no longer care. I very deliberately didn’t include those phrases because I realize not every limerent has committed adultery. Some have and this is how it can play out. People whose lives were trashed by liars are angry and rightfully so.
It is also interesting to see how those who have been “chumped” embrace enforcing boundaries. Particularly after their trust was used to chase a third party behind their backs.
Limerents often refer to limerence as addiction. One thing that addicts who have quit do is call those still in the throes of addiction out on it. Ever sat in on a NA or AA meeting? Any group therapy session of any sort? It’s rough to witness. I wouldn’t want to be the one getting raked over the coals for minimizing, justifying, blame-shifting and excusing my hurtful actions.
So I am blunt. Don’t give yourself the inch because you may very well go the mile and worse – pretend it was Manifest Destiny to boot. Which led to a very ugly 500 years of history in the Americas (and counting).
Since my vows are much more important to me than some transient emotional experience, even if it was genuine, I knew I had to get those emotions back under control of my rational mind.
I draw a distinction between my normal, rational thought process, which controls 95% of my behavior, and my idiot limerent brain.
Plus you overlooked this portion, “People don’t “fall in love” unless they’ve made a considerable investment in the other person. That’s a series of decisions. Love does’t hit people like thunderbolts across the copier machine. (Hallmark movies notwithstanding.)”
I didn’t overlook that portion, even though I put that in the “Unsure” category in my mind. Many of the limerents on this site speculate about how there can be a person who hits them like a stone shatters a windshield, pretty much instantaneous.
I haven’t had that experience, but I can easily imagine somebody fantasizing about a perfect person to such a degree that they form pathways in their brain. Once they encounter a person who checks enough boxes of the fantasy, limerence activates, and they’re off.
Maybe that’s not ‘love’ but it probably feels like it to the limerent.
It certainly does feel nice – but it’s what you do when you don’t feel all tingly that defines love. Because if all you base your relationship upon is feeling tingly, then it’s not going to last when life gets hard. Life always gets hard.
I stole this reply from CL.
TwiceaChump wrote,
“Commitment and respect is a choice, shows character, and is seen in all areas of one’s life. This has to be important to you in yourself as it is to expect others to honor these values as well. When we ‘fall in love’, it’s infatuation and hormones after we’ve gotten close to someone we’re attracted to. It’s natural and nothing to be ashamed of, is part of the human experience. It’s how we act on those feelings.
For someone in a committed relationship, you don’t act on those feelings to ever get yourself into a compromising position and hurt not only yourself, but everyone you love that would be affected by those actions.”
Hi All
Been a while since i posted. Made good progress at work where I havnt initiated contact and keep contact to a minimum when she does contact me – which is not all the time anyway.
I have also got rid of the uncertainity and know she has nothing for me and is just friendly and sometimes a bit needy too when stressed but overall just a normal human. And i thought it may have been reciprocation so I get limerence…
Anyway is it normal to feel guilty and bad that I am not as proactive with her now and just reacting and being normal so that it doesnt get akward?
I just dont want things to get akward thats all.
Amazing! Keep up that attitude and you’ll be fine.
Kevin, that sounds like “normal” living. Life has gotten in the way of me being proactive with PEOPLE THAT I REALLY LIKE (including some work friends) but just haven’t reached out to in a while. Maybe try to feel guilty about these other people in your life that you haven’t reached out to in a long time for one reason or another. After writing this, I might reach out to someone tonight (not LO)!
Thanks all
From outside I look normal. Inside I’m different. So just trying to fake it till I make it.
I’ve stopped all the sweet messages and the nicknames and just being reactive to her messages instead of proactive and checking on how she is etc.
Just wonder if she will notice the withdrawal and ask me. That’s a separate discussion on how I handle that. If she does notice it.
Does anyone ever feel as if their LO is implementing “staged withdrawal?” I have convinced myself on multiple occasions that LO is or was also limerent for me, even though I doubt that now. But sometimes it seems she is obviously trying to gradually move things back toward a strictly professional relationship. Or it could be an example of an “indecisive LO,” which I think has also been written about here. Regardless, what drives me crazy about it and the LE in general is the constant pretending and inability to just be real and talk about it. I would almost rather LO come out and tell me she is uncomfortable and wants to withdraw in order to prevent herself developing deeper feelings for me, and that for me not to take offence or read into it, but that it is purely self preservation on her part. I could respect that, even though it would likely spell the end of the LE. I would actually welcome it.
Does anyone honestly think that by the end of the staged withdrawal, the other person would just forget What Was Said or that there was a terribly palpable mutual crush? I see the point of it, but as someone who is on the other side (I suspect), it seems so silly.
I will never forget. And I don’t think she will either.
B, am in very similar situation with boss LO and I hate it so much! I
feel the same – I so wish we could just have a mature conversation about it rather than this whole never-ending pretense of everything being normal and our feelings towards each other being professional only when clearly they run deeper. It feels so uncomfortable and false. But I must respect that he has set this new boundary because he needs it for his mental well being. Isn’t it so much harder to have LC forced on you when you don’t feel ready for it? As much as I desperately crave this explicit mutual disclosure, I also know deep down that such a conversation might only serve to deepen my limerence rather than help me recover from it. And I agree B, we will never forget how we feel/felt but fingers crossed, we may get past the obessession eventually.
I recall DrL talking about his experience of staged withdrawal and saying that while it did eventually end his limerence, his LO will always have “emotional significance” for him.
I recognise that impulse, Allie, but (as I think you sense) it’s a trap. First, you can’t control the consequences of your “mature” conversation, because you can rehearse the calm, wise words as often as you like, but when you are there in front of LO in the middle of disclosing, your heart will be hammering like mad and your emotions will be all over the place. Second, they may not respond in an equally calm and mature way. They may freak out, or point out that you have crossed a line, or report you to HR. Third, the underlying impulse is the desire to get reciprocation, and if you do, you may get temporary relief, but then, just as you say, the limerence is likely to deepen.
It does, at first. But the funny thing is, after a while, it becomes the new normal. That was my experience at least – as you say, my old LO will always have emotional significance for me, but by the end of our time together, the civil, professional tone of our interactions felt natural.
Allie,
I can offer one bit of advice from personal experience. I previously disclosed to LO, in a respectful and mature way. She admitted what I already knew: that it was a mutual crush and she shared similar feelings for me. So even though we had “the conversation,” something about it wore off over time, and I began to feel myself craving another disclosure. It’s so similar to any other addiction. I had the ultimate hit – reciprocation in the form of LO telling me there were mutual feelings. But it never lasts. I slowly pushed the relationship deeper because I thought maybe it was mutual limerence, not just a mutual crush. That’s when I went too far I think. I realized she was not limerent and that for the first time things were uncomfortable for her. More time passed and here we are. Sometimes flirty and friendly, others it seems she is withdrawing. At times I just want to whisper to LO: “you know my feelings haven’t changed, have yours?”
What I’m saying is this: don’t disclose. Even if it doesn’t go horribly wrong, the high you get won’t last. You will want another. And another.
Think of it this way. one of 3 things will happen: 1) an affair, 2) LO freaks out and reports you, or 3) something in between, which in essence is more uncertainty, and of course deepens the LE. That is exactly what happened to me. I thought I could be satisfied with the secret knowledge that she likes me too and we could just go about our business. Nope. It won’t last.
Thanks for the wise advise both.
The idea that the disclosing itself would become addictive is incredibly useful to me, thank you B! I can now see that it would be like quadrupling my dose of drug thus worsening the severity of my addiction. This understanding will really help me work on my craving for that “one-off” disclosure conversation as it has now been rendered utterly pointless.
Allie- “”But I must respect that he has set this new boundary because he needs it for his mental well being. “” Same with my LO, I won’t bore you with how many times I’ve been tempted to disclose but I never did. I got a golden opportunity just before virus lockdown and it took every fibre of my being to resist. My LO asked me outright how I’ve been, this after his constant hot-cold behaviour which he even alluded to a few weeks prior. I felt he was pushing my buttons hoping for a reaction , I never gave him one.
Some days I kick myself as I wish I just told him, other days I am proud I held it all in.
In a perfect Limerent world we both disclose and we live happily ever after, but I so know that’s not going to happen.
Wow….well done for resisting such a temptation Lee-Anne! That’s impressive self control, you should be proud. Not sure I would have been quite so good 🙂
Reading this is switching on so many lightbulbs for me after a lifetime of LE. I had an EA with boss/friend a while ago but we ended things quickly. It was then very hot and cold between us for a long time. I think it confused us both and I tried to talk to him about how we could manage it but he wasn’t really willing to talk.
Things changed a month or so ago and I am now reading this and wondering if he read it too because it really feels like he has done a staged withdrawal on me -slowly stopping messages out of work and going very work focused during work hours. I haven’t asked why because I think it is really helping me. Sad to not be friends after many years but I realise it’s the best thing for my mental health right now.
Thanks so much for this website. I will read everything here.