In the last post I covered how limerence can be the trigger for renewal, and a starting point for transforming life for the better. While this is an optimistic perspective, there is an unfortunate – even, inconvenient – truth about that principle that cannot be escaped.
It takes courage.
Most people are discomforted by change. When it is forced upon us by outside forces it can be met with spirited resistance, or endured with stoicism, but when the change comes from within – from the realisation that our hope for a better future lies in confronting the poor or naive choices of our past – it is a bitter pill to swallow.
Finding purpose is difficult. In the past there were ready made solutions in religion, and for many people those foundations still have meaning, but the modern era in the West is secular, tolerant, and permissive. The liberty that these principles afford us is a blessing, but it does also mean we have to find purpose for ourselves. Many people struggle, or, ironically, seek purpose in the struggle.
There is a difference between finding purpose and finding a cause. Purpose, as I conceptualise it, is about discovering who you are, identifying worthwhile and fulfilling goals that you want to achieve, and developing the determination and resolve to take action. It’s analogous to the “self-actualisation” level of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. It’s a more integrated and complete life philosophy than simply being an activist.
Helpfully, the word “purpose” has two interlinked meanings which capture the main aspects of the idea. First, purpose is what a thing is for – its reason for existing. Second, purpose is a sense of intentional and deliberate action.
What do you want your life to be about, and are you intentionally and deliberately pursuing that?
For some lucky souls, these questions are easy to answer and came naturally to them early enough in life that they have had a clear direction ever since. More commonly, people drift; unsure about exactly what they want, how they feel about themselves, and how to find fulfilment. Still others start with a bang, confident in their opinions and goals, only to discover along the way that they were mistaken.
A bad bout of limerence can uncover a lack of purpose. It doesn’t have to be an existential crisis, it can just as easily be a creeping sense of disquiet about the way we are living and the choices we’ve made. Either way, we come to realise that we can’t go on the same way if we want a better future.
We have to change.
The cold shower of limerence regret
Limerence is such an overwhelming, extraordinary feeling that it’s impossible to ignore its implications. We are not so free as we once believed – our will is easily derailed by limerent desire. We are not so honest as we hoped – like any addict, we lie to ourselves and others to protect our supply. Our habits are not as commonsensical as we assumed – endless rumination about romantic fantasy is not a healthy form of self-regulation and mood repair.
Once the manic euphoria of early limerence passes, and we can see ourselves (and our conduct) a little more clearly, it can be a pretty sobering sight.
There are two broad ways that people react – the first being an ego-protecting retreat to a comfort zone of rationalisation, idealisation and rumination, the second being an acceptance that we are not as upstanding as we had thought.
The latter path leads to constructive change.
The roots of discomfort
We evolved in a dangerous world, and seeking psychological security is rational and essential behaviour. Our comfort zones are built in childhood, as we learn ways of coping with stressors in a haphazard way, based on the social environment we grow up in. While they can work at the time, the coping strategies that we use to try and make order of the chaos of life can become maladaptive – short-term fixes that cause long-term problems.
Unfortunately, habits so deeply rooted are very hard to break. Recognising that our previous beliefs are holding us back is an easy argument to grasp at an intellectual level, but the moment we start seriously contemplating change, emotional resistance kicks in. This resistance comes from some fundamental psychological constraints: aversion to loss, fear of the unfamiliar, discomfort with uncertainty, and underestimating the power of visceral drives.
Many other factors can also contribute to this resistance. We can feel pretty foolish about changing our minds, and changing our lifestyles, as it seems like an admission of past misjudgements. Behavioural change also requires willpower – an exhaustible resource that is only really good for sprints, not marathons. Other people in our lives can also be surprisingly unsupportive, perhaps because they fear that if we change, it will disrupt their lives (or that they will be forced to confront their own choices).
Staying where we are is low stress. It requires no cognitive strain or emotional labour. It seems familiar, safe, undemanding. But there comes a time – and this time is often hastened by limerence – where the pain of staying the same can be worse than the pain of change.
Antifragility
Nassim Taleb coined the term “antifragility” to describe a feature of complex systems that can be applied to human beings – the response to a stressor can make a system stronger. Resilience is the ability to resist change. Fragility is destruction caused by change. Antifragility is the ability to improve in response to change.
A simple example is muscle growth. If you stress a muscle by overloading it, it responds by “over-repairing” itself, and so gains extra capacity for future challenges.
Working out is uncomfortable. It hurts in the moment, it makes you ache afterwards, it takes self-discipline to keep going through the discomfort. It’s a hard habit to establish. The same is true of psychological workouts. Just as it is easier to sit on the couch and watch Netflix than go to the gym and lift weights, it is easier to stay in the comfort zone of limerent limbo than to radically adjust your attitude to life and love.
We can’t protect ourselves from discomfort while also transforming our lives for the better.
Courage and faith
Purposeful living requires openness to change, and a willingness to accept the discomfort that change brings. It takes a degree of faith – that the change you willingly adopt will lead to growth, and that the short term distress of emotional resistance, can lead to long-term psychological gains.
Courage is needed to face that discomfort when you don’t know for sure what the future will bring. The sincere admission that you are not sure what the right option is, but that you need to try something different, requires humility. Developing a sense of purpose gives you a direction to aim towards, a guiding star in an uncertain world. Rebirths are necessarily painful because you leave behind old sources of comfort, old excuses and old beliefs.
So, if you are currently going through the pain of limerence, have resolved to take control, and are searching for a new, better future: take heart!
The discomfort of change is fleeting. People are antifragile. Decisive, intentional change leads to growth.
There is ultimately more security in living purposefully than in maladaptive coping strategies.
I enjoyed reading this post, Dr L.
In my experience, when you come out the other side of it, you wonder why you didn’t face it all much sooner because it actually isn’t as hard as it first may seem. Is it difficult confronting yourself? Yes. And owning all your shadow/darkness is definitely difficult to begin with. But the lightness you feel as you peel back the layers is invigorating and liberating enough to compensate (in my experience anyway).
Plus, your own comfort with your own weaknesses helps others begin to embrace and feel less shame associated with theirs.
I really resonate with the first part of the blog, too. I used to fight for causes all the time. Everyone else was the problem. Then I realised you have to stop fighting the demons outside of yourself and start fighting the demons within. The surprising consequence of that is self-compassion for those demons (limerence and all) which in turn allows enormous compassion for others, too.
Thank you for this post Cordelia, it has reminded me of times I have come through the other side of Limerence, and how I can now see that these previous LOs did me no good and in fact were nothing more than a distraction from other issues. I need to address these now, work on my self-worth and understand how blessed I am.
@problem child
You know, oddly, it was fully loving my LO that helped me love myself. I’m not sure if what I experienced was the average LE because my head always rebelled against my heart. My head could always see his flaws. My heart didn’t give a shit. But because of my head I was never able to admit to myself how much I loved him. Allowing myself to love him wholly (flaws and all) was what allowed me to accept myself wholly. He represented my own shadow in a lot of ways. The key? Boundaries. To know that I can love someone but also love and respect myself so much that I can put in healthy boundaries for myself.
So I suppose what I found is that I had to give in to the limerence in a way but give in to the love for myself simultaneously which in turn gave me the self-worth required to implement strong boundaries. Does that make sense? 😅
Hey Call me Cordelia,
Hmm, I definitely struggle with loving myself – I generally have this odd feeling of superiority and general grandiose about my attractiveness coupled with an absolute loathing for my every pore! I know I’m not in love with LO, it’s pure obsession, I don’t know him that well and so only see the good bits, I’m blinkered to his not so attractive traits. But I’m starting to try and focus on them, I don’t think that’s ideal but it’s the safer option. I need to stop playing this game and get real! What do I really expect to happen? I’m tempted to up the flirting and suggestive behaviour but I’m not prepared (well not entirely!) to follow it through, and that would be mean at best, disastrous at worst! Yes, boundaries, I struggle with those – in that I overstep them or put up an impenetrable barrier altogether! Middle ground has never been a strong point!
Hello Problem Child, I can feel the high energy and desire in your post which I fully recognise. Maybe try to dissipate that energy into activities that take you away from LO fantasies, preferably physical activities. I am currently applying NC, and trying to dial down LO ruminations with practical actions. I am in an ‘easier’ position in that I only see LO infrequently. ‘Summer’ on LwL advised to write a list of bad traits of your LO and good of your SO and all the great things you and SO have and experienced together.
You say you have had LEs before and gone further than you would have liked, so those experiences are good to reflect on and help you make better informed decisions this time (?)
There are some older Blogs on here which you can no longer see in the list on the landing page. This one may be a good reminder of reality. there is also a link within the text to another blog on ‘Tipping Points’ which is a really good reality jolt !
https://livingwithlimerence.com/playing-with-fire/
I think these are good to read when you are in full-on headiness of LE and close to escalating which you seem to be. ( I wish I found LwL and those posts earlier in my LE. )
Then you can move onto the self development. Best wishes.
Hi IMHO, I can’t reply directly to your post for some reason. Maybe there’s an analogy with my day-to-day relationships there somewhere!
I’m trying to undertake activities that I enjoy, are healthy, and don’t connect to him but somehow they always snake their way around to being so!
I feel I’ve turned a little corner, albeit I keep having a look over my shoulder just to check he’s still there, but I have played out the potential affair in my head, fully and with consequences, that has helped. Thank you for the pointers, great to have all this non-judgmental support 😊
Interesting points there Cordelia.. 👆🏻👍🏻😉
@MJ I wrote a bit for you at the bottom…
I have been thinking about my comment saying I had to find a way to love my LO completely in order to love myself. I suppose I just want to clarify because I’d hate to encourage more limerence because I worded something poorly.
I was compelled to ‘solve’ my limerence (even though I didn’t know it was limerence) because my LO induced night terrors. But I didn’t know that until I read a book called ‘the Courage to be Disliked’ and I realized I didn’t need the courage to be disliked, I needed the courage to be liked. Because LO was drawn to me despite my really shitty behavior. It’s like I couldn’t do anything so bad that I’d push him away for good (except maybe tell him I’d had secret feelings for him for nearly 20 years, that did the trick! 😩). When I made the connection between him and the terrors they stopped for a while but came back when he denied ever having feelings for me.
It took a couple more years of NC (from him) for me to figure out WHY he caused the terrors. I ended up using a coding method to figure out what was similar about the times my terrors stopped and the times I had them. When they had stopped it’s because I had confidence in myself at that time. Why did I have confidence in myself? Because I was treating myself with the respect I deserve. Working hard, running every day, eating well, and investing in good friendships. I was single but happy because I was making good choices.
It’s odd how noticing patterns from my past showed me that I COULD do it. I just needed to tap into that determination again but it helped knowing the payoff would be zero terrors and happiness. The loving my LO part came because I realised he was the catalyst for all of this growth. Without him and the absolute despair I felt I wouldn’t have been compelled to figure myself out to such an extent. I was with an emotionally abusive ex for ten years and he didn’t inspire any growth at all because I wasn’t vulnerable with him at all. Nope, it was LO, so I’m thankful for the pain and turmoil he caused (or rather I caused!) because it made me so angry I wanted to fight back – for me. That meant being vulnerable, being unashamed of my truth (including limerence) and voicing that (which is why I say I’m all for the truth).
As Mark Groves says (roughly) If a truth burns down a relationship, I say let it burn. Because then you will be liberated.
@MJ I saw you thought about buying her Wendy’s. I really wouldn’t do that. If a guy I didn’t like did that for me I’d really think he was overstepping and wanted something in return. It’d creep me out. You don’t have to pour your heart out to her but I agree with the others who say you should ask her out for coffee or lunch. That will give you the truth. It’s direct, no ambiguity, no heavy emotional dumping, and it’s respectful of her right to decline (buying her Wendy’s is not).
@Cordelia,
I’m finding your posts intriguing and your paths working through your LE very interesting.
I too suffered from night terrors for many years. Mainly from when I was married. But I think that’s because I carried a lot of emotional baggage then and really wasn’t the best husband. (I probably don’t need to go into too much detail about it.) I will occasionally still have them now and then, but they seem to average less. Maybe one, every six to nine months. Way less than they used to be. Sometimes that even surprises me with all that I feel like I’m taking on sometimes. Between LO, Dads sickness and a moody teenage Daughter, I should be a train wreck waiting to happen..
Amen to God’s grace I suppose..
I appreciate your input about buying LO lunch. I guess I figured it shouldn’t have been a big deal. I really really wanted to, but pissing her off with an expectation of something in return didn’t really cross my wires. I was mainly thinking she might not appreciate an assumption from me, thinking that she couldn’t afford lunch. And I thought that would irriate her more than anything. Yet it should’ve crossesd my mind she might think something else, with her being so attractive and all. I mean I’m not her, so I can’t possibly know what it’s like to be beautiful like that. So many men work in our Company too. So I can’t believe she’s short on the compliments she receives. But she seems to be such a Woman of class and sophistication. It’s like she is the type of person who would take ignorance with a grain of salt. She is so graceful about everything. Sometimes I would look at her and wonder if she’s even human.
What is aggravating to me quite often, is that I don’t want to be the Comman Man to her. I want to be unique, have my own cute little pick up line and make her melt. I don’t want to be like every other swinging d!%# that walks by her and drools. I never assumed buying her lunch might creep her out.
So I guess the hundred, thousand dollar question is, have I done anything yet that hasn’t creeped her out?
If she already isn’t interested, then what would I have to lose by buying her lunch anyway?? Besides just pissing her off, possibly way more.
I know you mentioned it would irritate you. But would anything have changed, or would you have possibly given the guy a chance, had he never bought you lunch? Guess I’m just asking because you seem to be very matter of fact and I like how you are simple and to the point.
I know I make this so much harder than it is. Forgive me please. LO is going to be the death of me.
@MJ
I don’t think there’s a formula as such. Generally I can’t cope with a guy just walking up to me and asking me out. My brain freezes and I turn him down. There needs to be conversation first. We hit upon a topic we’re both interested in and he says shall we go do ‘abc’ together? It feels natural rather than he had to build himself up for it. I can just about see the nerves rattling away and I can feel the intensity like it was contagious. Conversation and laughter is the antidote to that.
Personally I can’t stand ‘lines’ unless they’re funny. But even then… I got a random one at a shopping center and a guy said to me ‘a one ton polar bear’ I’d just finished having a sneezing fit so I said ‘sorry?’ He said ‘a one ton polar bear….’ I looked confused. He said ‘well it’s an ice breaker isn’t it’. He was cute and Getting on a motorbike (I have weakness for these things) and I walked off laughing because as cute as he was, it was so superficial. Nothing superficial will ever appeal to me. I’m not sure if your LO is like me, but you have to appeal to my brain. Lines, flirtation and superficiality just piss me off. Be real. If your real isn’t compatible with her real then so be it. Again, that inner work would help with the being vulnerable here…and being OK no matter her response.
As for buying things to get something in return. ‘Do I get a hug?’ ‘Can I have a kiss?’ All questions I’ve been asked in return for a ‘gift’. So yeah I am eternally suspicious.
Interesting about the night terrors. I’d be curious to know if many others here suffered from them. Mine were induced by LO making suggestive comments or flirting with me when I was lacking confidence in myself. When we were both in relationships, he didn’t flirt so I didn’t have them. When I was doing well confidence-wise, again, his flirty comments didn’t induce them.
@Cordelia,
What I have is about a dozen or so goofy little pickup lines, that are cute and would like to think would humanize me to LO. But today I’m just of the opinion she couldn’t give a hot damn. (Just going through one of my rougher-edged moods today.) You mention lines and flirtation bug you. Somehow I just feel like she is the same way. If I could somehow appeal to her brain though, that would be where it needs to start. Hopefully that appeals to her emotional state.
I really appreciate the input from you and as an LO, I find your suggestions intriguing and must keep in mind when approaching this. Sometimes I wish you could even live vicariously through LO, just to help get me in her circle. Because I think you kinda get where I’m coming from. And instead of awkward looking at me, you would see I’m a good egg and I mean no harm.
You mention in another post about apologizing to LO. Sometimes I wonder if I should just approach with that mentality. Since I’m not too sure she always appreciated my glaring at her like a deer in headlights. Sometimes I think I did scare her, but her body language told me enough and so I chose to respect it. I however don’t like it.
@MJ
As someone who struggled with my LO off and on over a 20-year period I should probably be saying ‘just put it to rest’ ‘just go talk to her’, but maybe, like me, that’s not actually your goal here. I felt connected to LO in a way I never felt connected to anyone but it wasn’t necessarily ever meant to be romantic. My interactions with LO led to perpetual growth. We constantly challenged each other and I believe we positively impacted each other’s lives even as a consequence of the inner turmoil caused by the other (and ourselves).
I am currently toying with the idea of sending someone a message. He was at the gym I went to before. I loved that he was immune to me (or hid it well if he wasn’t) but we had some decent chats and he’s quick to laugh. He just seemed self-possessed which I am very drawn to these days. It’s hard to put myself out there and I’m definitely not limerent for him but carpe diem and all that. I feel like he’s a decent person so even if he’s not interested, he’ll be direct and that’s that. Isn’t your LO a decent person? Isn’t that why you like her? If you frame it in terms of what’s most respectful to her, would that change your approach? LO rejected me after nearly 20 years of friendship and I’m here to tell the tale all the stronger and more confident for it because I used it to fuel more growth. This community may be online, but there are people here who feel your pain and wish you’d move forward in some way. Just take a small step. In any direction. Even if that’s looking for a therapist online or doing the work yourself (I wrote in a post to Adam about using Internal Family System therapy on myself… but there are heaps of other options like the Holistic Psychologist or follow Mark Groves who runs online groups on relationships). But you‘re stuck so you have to move forward in some small way. Please 🙏
@Cordelia,
Thank you for replying and giving a $#!+. Again you come at me with new perspectives I never considered. Yet at the same time, I feel I am turning into one stubborn soul. It’s a good thing you are here to boot me in the virtual a$$..
The Therapist I was hoping to see bowed out on me last night, citing insurance concerns, which I think are straight crap. I don’t need to get into it here, but there are just so many times lately I take everything so personally. When I don’t even know the bigger picture. Guess that doesn’t matter but it does get me down. I found myself in tears over that too last night. I’m sad over everything.
Today I reached out to another therapist, so give me an E for making the effort. I like to think this one will work out.
I like the concept you adopted by challenging yourself with LO. Not necessarily in the romantic sense. I would love to connect with her in that way. But as a person, I can’t even begin to say this the level she is on. You mention you are in your 40s. My LO is only 28. So she may not be at your intellectual level just yet. However, I would love to find out. She seems very comfortable in her skin and really knows how to impress the room. Her looks might come-off as a little snobby sometimes but it isn’t overbearing.
I think she probably is a very decent person, but I still don’t know her internal weather. Is she sweet, shy, loving, kind appreciative? Or is she vindictive, picky, high-maintenance, manipulative? Her friends have told me she’s nice. But that I’m probably too old for her. (I’m a very young 52) I don’t think age is a factor for her anyway, because that other Dude she hangs out with is easily in his late 40s. If not at least 50. Hell, he might even be older than me. He could sure pass for it I think. You would also think I’d be so jealous of him but I’m not actually. Not entirely. If he is what makes her happy, then I need to be ok with that.
At least you can say you had 20 years of good friendship with your LO. I’m glad it pushed you forward after the rejection. Perhaps I need to look harder for that silver lining.
I’m happy to have found the community here. I’m grateful to all those that want to help.
I want something good to arise out of this. I’m trying, believe it or not. Thank you again Cordelia. You’re a blessing.. 😇💖🙏🏼
Thank you for this post. I am finding it so hard to face myself and do something different to what I’ve always done – what I thought I had no choice other than to do. I don’t feel I know who I am, and certainly not what I want, or if I even believe I can change. I am in the throes of an LE with no hope at the moment of NC and also suffering the pain of rejection from my LO who, it feels, has pulled away completely and is over it all. I’ve copied lots of useful bits from these blog posts onto my phone, which does help, but it’s hard to know how to move forward. I don’t do well with change at the best of times!
Dear C for Cat, I can so relate to that feeling of not knowing who you are. I think this is part of the reason I fall so hard for people – it’s a way to detract from that feeling, and also fulfills a need to be something to someone. My LO seems to blow hot and cold, I wonder if he’s feeling the same, we’re in an impossible situation where nothing can happen, it would be so destructive, but I need to know it could!
C for Cat,
Hello old Friend, how are you? I haven’t been ignoring you. Just been a lot going on at home and in the forum here. Been going through the emotions, being sad and hoping on hope. Long work days and the limerent stress I go through daily there, as you may have been reading throughout the forum.
I’m sorry you’re going through a rough patch it seems. It’s never easy when you feel them pulling away. I can’t imagine how that must feel, that you get to be with LO in some artificial way and then end up never being with him in the long run. My heart goes out to you. That has to be so rough.
I feel somewhat the same throughout my workday. Seeing LO for maybe 10 seconds when she goes in, in the morning and then I go the entire rest of the day, dwelling on what little I saw her that morning. It’s a terrible, self destructive habit, that holds little hope, and it’s so pathetic but it’s what I do to keep from feeling without nobody to hope on. I am so lonely most of the time. Just want to meet her for friendship, or coffee or just a damn simple hello.
But I don’t even scratch the surface.
Feels like I’m invisible in this world sometimes. I don’t know if what I say resonates with you but just wanted to mention you are not alone in your struggle.
Anyway, perhaps we can catch up at some point in the coffeehouse if you want. Guess we have it all to ourselves now, so be on the lookout cause I might just show up with a message for you there at some point.
Talk to you later
Your friend,
MJ 😉
Hey C4C,
Hope your injury is getting better. How are you? I left you a message in the Coffeehouse. Hopefully you can find it on the topics page. It should be close to the bottom.
Hi C for Cat,
It seems they a lot of us are experiencing the same things. I feel the same with my LO. He has been contacting me less and less, some days he seems back to his normal self, and other days, he never reaches out and I feel like my messages are unwelcome. I wish he has never shown any interest at all, because my life wouldn’t be this complicated now. In the early days when we met, we talked all day long. He even stayed at work later which I think was to talk to me. But now he is back to usual self. No more working late, no more talking to me all day. I know this is the right thing to do for both of us, but I also hate it.
John Churton Collins quote.
“There is often less danger in the things we fear than in the things we desire.”
I now fear my reactions and behaviour towards a once irresistible LO.
I can still have days of 70% fear and 30% desire. On a good day I recognise the completely untenable and harmful person that LO has been for me. I had twice called NC and she didn’t want it and contact was resumed. Now she has called NC because I made finally some complaints about her highly confusing messaging. I am still working through what this experience means for my future. I do have the benefit of a good therapist in a town nearby for weekly sessions. It is helping me get past the biochemical nature of limerence to the troubled childhood roots of its start and its persistence. I wish everyone struggling some peace of mind.
I am currently thinking about therapy too, Mike. It’s just trying to find the right one. I’m glad it’s helping you.
Problem Child – I know what you mean. I wonder whether it would be easier for me if I didn’t know he had felt similarly. It gives me hope and despair at the same time. It also makes trying to get over it dangerous when we see each other all the time.
Hi C for cat.
I believe that the actual presence of some initial mutual feeling which then vanishes when LO loses any romantic feelings/ideas for whatever reason, does add an extra really difficult factor to have to process. It’s the loss of a possibility in a way that someone who was never ever interested doesn’t bring. I have had to really focus on what I found is called a counterfactual. Which is undoing the fear that a bright future was there if only you could have grasped it. When it’s far more likely a deeper involvement would just have meant deeper pain when their shallower feelings meant they lost interest or they chose someone else.
Mike – Hmm, counterfactual – I’d never heard of that. Have googled it now, and it’s an interesting concept which I suspect I fall into a lot – thanks.
MJ – hi! Yes, it is very tough, the biggest test I’ve ever had in terms of limerence/temptation/making the hard decision. I’m vulnerable to making the wrong decision at the moment because I’m feeling generally sorry for myself with my injury, worries about being OK for the play next week, veering one way and then the other about the decision, second guessing how LO feels (yes, I know that is NOT A GOOD THING TO DO!) and feeling rejected, not sleeping well etc, getting a bit over-controlling with food etc.
I’m lucky that I have a very good friend who knows everything about my situation – the first time I’ve ever been able to confide in anyone – and she is helping me. She’s been in a similar situation herself and she’s made an incredibly hard decision for the sake of her marriage.
I wonder if your loneliness would be better helped by someone who isn’t your LO, who doesn’t hold all of those hopes, desires, imaginative reverie etc.. I’m hoping you will be able to do what LiS asked you to; to find something to do to take you away from this, and maybe you’ll meet some new people who can give you the friendship and fun you deserve.
I’ll keep an eye out for you in the coffee house! Buy me a vegan cake and that will cheer me up even if I scold you for making me break my carb count for the day 😉
“There are two broad ways that people react – the first being an ego-protecting retreat to a comfort zone of rationalisation, idealisation and rumination, the second being an acceptance that we are not as upstanding as we had thought.”
This part of the article spoke to me best. I think it is place that explains best where I am currently in the LE.
I am just now a little past one year into it and I can say it has cooled somewhat over time, but it nonetheless is still very much present and pretty much steers the ship of my emotional state.
Lately I have had a huge desire to try and go be a friend to LO. To make small talk and see if there could be any possible, positive reciprocation. Yet when I think I want to do this, I lack the courage to follow thru. Mainly because I just don’t feel like she’s going to feel the same. Because her body language has always told me what I should do, and that is to stay in my lane. It should be more than obvious I should just walk away from this, accept my loss and move on… I wish it was only that easy.
So I am working on getting to a Therapist. But the one I am hoping to go see doesn’t seem to even want to get back to me because of her schedule, insurance issues, or whatever. This too causes me a little anxiety. Because if I can’t even get a response from a Therapist, to help me figure this stuff out, I question again, what is wrong with me?
Great post, Dr.L, as always.
I don’t know who said it, but here it goes:
“WHATEVER YOU ARE NOT CHANGING YOU ARE CHOOSING.”
Read it again.
“The secret of change is to focus ALL of your energy, not fighting the old, but building the new.” By Socrates.
Find out what’s your talent, (everyone is born with a talent(s), what is it you are good at, purpose in life, work at perfecting it, be a master of it, use it and shine…
Always aim high, the sky is the limit. You can do it CxC and MJ. Have faith in yourselves. Never, never quit striving to do your best and shine. Courage, remember the lion in The Wizard of Oz movie. Don’t be scared , you’re giants, look inside yourselves . Believe in yourselves. You are not alone. LwL supports you. Courage!!!
We sometimes pretend we have everything under control …
Song : The great Pretender , The Platters.
When I was young and didn’t know what life was all about, and felt lonely, I used to sing this song…
Thank you Nisor. It is always nice to see your posts. I appreciate your words. I hope C gets to read this too.
Thank you, Nisor, it’s a bit easier to find some strength in this when I know people are cheering me on! I’m currently trying to make a massively hard choice and I’m thinking of using how disappointed you would all be in me if I didn’t pull my big girl pants up and do the right thing!
Ayyy C for cat, you’re too hard on yourself. At ease pls. We all know how difficult this darned limerence is. You have to STEP on it, and say ‘no you’re not going to govern me, I’m the boss here’, ha! Really, even if you fail, we’ll not hold it against you. Why should we? Who are we to judge you, we’re in the same bost as you…The thing is to try again and again and not stay in the same spot. It’s like you are drowning and this big wave takes you back and you keep on struggling and trying until somehow you get to the shore. But it’s hard work, it drains you of your strength sometimes. Try you must.We have to overpower this limerence monster one way or the other , but try we must. The battle is on, try to be in the winning side, be a champion and kick it in the arse. You are destined to win!!! Sending love and hugs.
That made me smile. I will start envisioning kicking a big ball of limerence in its arse! Thanks again, the support is so helpful as I attempt to steer my rudderless brain (using a metaphor from another post I was reading earlier today!).
“You can’t start to heal if you keep denying you are in pain.”
Many years ago my appendix burst inside my body. For weeks I became accustomed to the pain that I kept denying. The discomfort of confronting something serious was more scary than the pain. I kept denying the pain. When it got bad I would hide my pain from my wife so she didn’t suspect anything. Finally one Sunday night she caught the pain in my face and told me to get in the car to go to the ER. They did emergency surgery. My appendix burst and the septic contentions of it was poisoning me.
When I came out of surgery the doctor checked my vitals and what not. I remember him telling me to thank my wife for my life because if I had waited any longer I could have died. She literally saved my life. Now I listen to her when she tells me go to the doctor or hospital.
This limerence burst inside of me and is poisoning my inner self. But the pain of limerence seems preferable to the pain of confrontation. Admitting I not as good of a husband as I thought I was? That when I said my vows that one day I would betray them? That I still can’t let go of this completely?
If Miss Lovisa was here she would know what to say. She always had the right words. I miss her.
Just a couple of ‘off the cuff’ thoughts, Adam.
“You can’t start to heal if you keep denying you are in pain.” This seems a bit tenuous to me and I’m not sure it fits your situation.
You have a supportive SO and a family. I can’t see that you have anything to feel so guilty about and guilt can be destructive. I am mindful of the upsetting night time experience you mentioned a while back. I think that may have been a reminder of how helpful it can be to gradually cut down on alcohol intake. Apart from that, in reality, I do wonder what else you must confront.
It’s the time that it takes for limerence to fade which is so frustrating. I am so sorry you feel it is still poisoning your inner self. I have read Dr.L’s latest blog above and I have tried to store away the philosophy and the little gems. You do have courage. I wonder if there is something you are doing which is circumventing your executive brain and allowing you to dream or ruminate. It’s tough though, isn’t it and I guess that’s why we are still here. I haven’t mentioned purposeful living because, personally, I am still struggling to achieve it.
Sometimes there can be a shift though. In my case, the No Contact instigated by my LO had lasted for six months. Although it was sensible for both of us, I was consumed with feeling very upset indeed about being “ghosted”. Against the wise advice that I had been given here, I sent a birthday card with a low key greeting. I should not have done that but I received a very nice message apologising for the lack of contact and asking me what I had been doing etc. I replied. There has been no response but this somehow enables me to move on (I need to find the courage), accept that this is about as good as any closure is going to get, and make sure I don’t initiate any further contact. Nothing. No cards, and especially, no messages.
Take care, Adam
Frederico I am not even sure what it is I feel I still have to confront to win over this limerence. I think I did better this weekend. My wife’s insomnia was crueler than usual so most of the weekend while she slept I was awake and vice verse. I did some morning errands Saturday, played an online game with our youngest boy and remember going somewhere with our oldest. I think it was just to a store for something he needed. Sunday evening a potential buyer came to look at the truck I am trying to sell. I remember most of the weekend. That’s a good sign I was mostly sober.
And then Sunday (before the seller came by) my wife was asleep, our youngest gaming, and our oldest went somewhere with his friend; I looked at her facebook page. I know I shouldn’t have. It’s been months since I last did it. Still the same picture of her with her daughters that she posted last year about a month after she quit. I didn’t post or like anything just looked at it ….
I get it with the purposeful living …. I’ve been in a rut for a while now. Both personally and in our marriage (I’ll leave it to her to share specifics if she wants to post a comment) leaving me open for the limerence obviously. And think that LO was so purposefully living I was drawn to her. She is an amazingly determined and strong woman for what she has been through in life.
My wife knows all the details. Our oldest knows most of it. Our youngest I am not sure what all he knows. But I know that they both still call me “dad” and she calls me “love”. So it seems that they have accepted what happened and have moved forward. I seem to be the only one stuck in the past.
“I wonder if there is something you are doing which is circumventing your executive brain and allowing you to dream or ruminate.”
I would guess it is my wondering what the experience was to her. Was it friendly? Were they good memories? Or were they bad memories? I feel I pushed her into a corner, one she didn’t know what to do with. I know, I know that damn closure that we’re not suppose to fish for. But at least I have been successful with the NC so far.
We all take some missteps. I maybe being doing good with NC, but rehashing feelings looking at her online status isn’t helping myself either. I got mad at myself for loosing ground in this battle with myself. I appreciate your words Frederico. It seems I always come away from a conversation with you feeling I learned something new about myself and am able to not be so hard on myself.
Good morning Adam.
Definitely, Limerence is veeery confusing. I keep on pondering, besides it’s scientific side, which makes a heck of a lot of sense, that there’s also a spiritual side to it. Has to be, otherwise we would have been able to get rid of it when the hormones, chemicals and whatever else is physically there run out in the brain?
We try this, we try that etc, but it doesn’t go away or it comes back sometime later. It’s exausting and sad. There’s a sorrow that lingers in our souls that nothing else seems to matter. I consider myself a very strong person when things of this world try to put me down. I fight or take off, (flight mode) I hate to freeze in front of a situation or flow in it if I’m not in agreement with it . But limerence seems to be a stronger force, like a demon encroached in your brain and thoughts… We have to win this someday somehow. Just speculating…
Here’s 2 quotes if they can be of some consolation for you and the other posters here, Problem child, IMHO, Speedwagon etc.
“When you find NO Solution to a problem, it’s possibly not a problem to be solved, but rather a TRUTH to be ACCEPTED.” (Marianne Williamson)
Yeah, and what is that truth, what does it look like?
And,
“AND once the storm is over you won’t remember how you made it through, how you managed to SURVIVE. You won’t even be sure,whether the storm is really over. But one thing is certain. When you come out of the storm, you won’t be the same person who walked in. That’s what this storm’s all about.”(Haruki Muraksmi)
The question is: when is the storm going to be over? It’s taking too long, ha. Patience and courage. This will also pass.
Have a good day you all.
I can do good with the logical, decisive things that are a part of everyday life. I’ve handled deaths in both families, two premature boys and their issues as they have grown. I’ve handled unemployment, debt, hunger, etc. For the most part I am the brain in those cute brain and heart online cartoons.
But when it came to her my heart ran off and took over. I don’t handle matters of the heart well in general. I hate goodbyes.
“When you find NO Solution to a problem, it’s possibly not a problem to be solved, but rather a TRUTH to be ACCEPTED.” (Marianne Williamson)
And that’s where maybe I can’t get past this. I am determined to find the cause of this limerence. What is the problem that caused it? There has to be a reason. And if I find the solution to it, I can fix it once and for all. Maybe there is no solution. Well technically science says alcohol is a solution. Haha I kid, I kid. A truth to be accepted, huh? I’ll have to think on that Nisor. Thank you for your response. Once again you’ve set me on a positive mindset.
Dear Nisor,
Quite often I find myself telling God I don’t know what to do. I need an answer. Like yesterday!! What is the hold up?? It’s like I’m constantly striving for an answer and I never get one. Or the right one. A very spiritual person at this point would probably tell me, God is very much present in my sorrow,(Like that moment in the overused “footprints” poem, where there’s only one set of footprints now, because God is carrying me.)
I wish God would move a mountain or at least deliver something worthwhile. But I keep ending up at the dead end. Typing this out right now is tough for me almost.
Why do I see LO in everything? A car on the street, blondes in the store, Mexican music, A car like hers. No matter what or where I am, she’s just there. Always showing up like that Demon you mention. (Yet I see LO more like a fallen Angel) I put her playlist on in the car, and life is better for awhile. All that’s missing, is her in the passenger’s seat.
I was riding a wave high for the past few days because I had another eye contact moment with LO last week and it made me happy. However, yesterday, I didn’t see her in the morning and I crashed. My mood just went right down the toilet. All day I had an anxious feeling welling up inside me. I could do my job, but I was just sad and I could feel anxiety building within.
Later on, I had another panic attack on the way home from work and probably cried the whole way almost. Lately, the panic attacks have increased. I felt like a damn fool the way I carried on, but the tears and the sadness just wailed out of me. Like I could’ve had a tantrum if I wanted to. Sometimes my heart physically aches for her so bad, that I wonder if LO thoughts will actually kill me. Sometimes I don’t know if I would care.
Limerence is a terrible strong force, that I wonder if I will ever be able to wrap my brain around. I know there isn’t a thing I am doing in the interim, thats helping me. The storm is definitely here. But if I even think for a second I have to give her up, get out the mop because I’ll probably cry a river. I hate myself for allowing so much of this LE to fester and turn my brain into jello.
This post is not a plea for sympathy either. It’s just a lot of what you said resonates so well with me. I thought by posting, it would break it down, how insane this feels to me. I’m simply a hot emotional mess. I just want to sleep and forget everything.
This conversation is reminding me of one of my favorite poets and writers; Charles Bukowski. I kept the bluebird in my heart far too long and when it finally got out ….. well here I am today
Bluebird
there’s a bluebird in my heart that
wants to get out
but I’m too tough for him,
I say, stay in there, I’m not going
to let anybody see
you.
there’s a bluebird in my heart that
wants to get out
but I pour whiskey on him and inhale
cigarette smoke
and the *hores and the bartenders
and the grocery clerks
never know that
he’s
in there.
there’s a bluebird in my heart that
wants to get out
but I’m too tough for him,
I say,
stay down, do you want to mess
me up?
you want to screw up the
works?
you want to blow my book sales in
Europe?
there’s a bluebird in my heart that
wants to get out
but I’m too clever, I only let him out
at night sometimes
when everybody’s asleep.
I say, I know that you’re there,
so don’t be
sad.
then I put him back,
but he’s singing a little
in there, I haven’t quite let him
die
and we sleep together like
that
with our
secret pact
and it’s nice enough to
make a man
weep, but I don’t
weep, do
you?
Hi Adam
I am sure Lovisa is sorely missed. Despite only interacting with her once or twice, she had kind words to say that helped me feel better too. That is some kind of magic to always know what to say.
I am wondering if it has been my contributions as an LO that have caused you to wonder about your LO’s experience now? when you say fish for closure do you mean also to apologise? From my perspective, I would always be open to an apology from a limerent but I don’t think any of my limerents have the self awareness to do that. If the reason to not apologise or seek closure is for your sanity, I would argue that it can help sometimes. But, hey, my limerence was off and on for nearly 18 years. Probably better described as a non-limerent 15-year friendship bookended by several years of limerence so maybe I’m not the best to be giving advice! I still haven’t had all the answers I wanted but I communicated everything I needed to from my end and I’m genuinely fine with it now. I suppose you can only go through that list of is it true? is it helpful? etc etc and decide whether it’s worth sending and what your motivations are for sending it.
I have done so many different types of therapy – on my own and with my psychologist and psychoanalyst – that I feel a bit like a walking, talking textbook. I don’t know if this idea would help but I like the Internal Family System to help with parts of ourselves we are ashamed of. I don’t want to explain something to you that you may have already tried but what I especially liked about it was the idea that at our core we are neither good nor bad. We just are. I then chose a guardian archetype. I chose Cate Blanchett’s Galadriel because that woman oozes calm and charisma and yet she can be so commanding. I could then get her to talk to the parts of myself I didn’t like with compassionate (I’m loving this alliteration calm, charismatic compassionate, and commanding) authority. I don’t think that any single therapy worked for me. Even now I switch between various methods that I think might help me through the day when things get hard again or if I do something I regret.
I don’t want to try and ‘fix’ your problems and I’m not sure if you’re looking for feedback or advice or just need to vent. But as someone said above, the fact that you are self-reflecting to the level that you are indicates a sensitive soul who gives a shit. That’s a good thing.
“I am wondering if it has been my contributions as an LO that have caused you to wonder about your LO’s experience now? when you say fish for closure do you mean also to apologise?”
No Cordelia, at least not in a negative way. I enjoy your contributions and it is interesting as a limerent to see it from an LO’s perspective. Though seeing you as LO, it makes me wonder if LO was being gracious like you seem to be. And if I ever put her in an uncomfortable situation she didn’t voice it.
And yes. To tell her I am sorry for what I put her through. I can’t imagine every scenario we were in together were as pleasant for her as she acted like they were. I have tried to make amends to my family. I think they have accepted my sorrow. But I know that I can never contact LO. It will flare again like throwing gasoline on a bonfire. The uncertainty may just have to be the truth that I have to accept and move on.
I read up some on the IFS on wikipedia and it seems to be an interesting concept. Just on the surface it seems Protectors have buried Self trying to hold the Exiles at bay. Even outside the limerence I have probably shared more of myself in this community than have to anyone else. I mostly keep myself guarded and bury my traumas.
I would hate to think my limerence caused her any distress or trauma. She is a wonderful person that I am so glad to have met. And I am so glad that her future looks bright and she has people around her that love her. I want my memories of her and her daughters to be fond. You know …. I liked to remember her as Miss M not LO. That would be ultimate step to get out of this.
@Adam
“I read up some on the IFS on wikipedia and it seems to be an interesting concept. Just on the surface it seems Protectors have buried Self trying to hold the Exiles at bay. Even outside the limerence I have probably shared more of myself in this community than have to anyone else. I mostly keep myself guarded and bury my traumas.”
Yes that is basically it. I guided myself through it because I couldn’t really find a therapist here that could do that for me. But I wasn’t using it to get over limerence. I used it to try and be a better mother…. but that’s a whole other struggle. And I certainly don’t think I’m a bad mother. I’m human with limitations and needs that often go unmet. Anyway, my experience with IFS is obviously limited given I couldn’t find someone to guide me through it, but I did find it beneficial even implementing it on my own.
BTW I love that bluebird poem. I didn’t see it until just now.
As for the experience of LOs, I probably only represent a small percentage of the population in the sense that I cannot stand flirtation. Although I realised the other day it’s not always the case. If I’m out at a bar and having a drink or two, I’m OK with flirtation then, but it must be in the form of sparkling repartee. The thing is I pretty much never go out any more having full custody of a young child so I couldn’t tell you the last time I flirted with anyone.
I also seem to be an LO far more often than would be normal. Just a couple of days ago I got the feeling that a new colleague is limerent. I asked a female colleague about her experience with him and she confirmed his behaviour with me is out of character. She also said that she can’t see it. As in, she can’t understand why I’m constantly an LO. I had to laugh. Because I don’t think it’s for the way I look. I wear athleisure clothing 90% of the time. I don’t wear make up. I’m pushing 50. But what you said about your LO living a purposeful life. I definitely do that. That said, I intended to stop posting so much on here and I’m still here *sigh*. I think it’s the temporary replacement for the interaction I was getting at the gym. Once I can start at the new gym I hope I’ll have that need met in real life rather than online which isn’t really sufficient (or healthy). I suppose the point I’m trying to make is that I never voiced my discomfort until with my trainer recently and that was because I have reached my limit with being an LO. It has caused me to be ostracised by women who can see that their SO is a little too eager around me or I feel so uncomfortable that I avoid places and communities. I generally like being alone and I enjoy my own company but I do need community. Limerence (or even just general-purpose admiration) has robbed me of that multiple times so now I’m speaking out. I think being gracious was to my own detriment and possibly fanned the flames of limerence. Cracking it with my trainer was with the intent of breaking the spell but I still had to leave the community.
Actually, that’s a lie that I hadn’t cracked it at anyone before. I totally cracked it at LO for all his flirting (which I even had written proof of!) but only after years of putting up with it and hiding my distress. But it’s not taking me years now. I’ve got it down to months but I’m thinking days is probably all I need now.
“Because I don’t think it’s for the way I look. I wear athleisure clothing 90% of the time. I don’t wear make up. I’m pushing 50. But what you said about your LO living a purposeful life. ”
Cordelia
This is just from my experience as a limerent. When I first met LO in person, sure I was like, “Wow this woman is beautiful!” But that was just an observation by a guy that’s not dead or blind. In the following months I worked with her just fine. She was just a pleasant hard working woman that I admired for that. We worked together daily for about 4 months. The first time I went back to her location after some weeks, I was just having a mid morning conversation with her, just bs’ing, and BAM! the limerence hit me. I don’t even remember what we were talking about.
My take, now having been here as long as I have and learning about limerence, is I didn’t because limerent with a pretty face, I became limerent for the woman that LO was. Her personality, many of her traits and habits.
So maybe that is the case why you become an LO for multiple men. It is YOU as a person they are becoming limerent for. They see something in your behavior or your habits that attract them to you so magnetically. Believe me, an accomplished, independent, determined woman is more attractive than a pretty face. Not that a woman can’t have both, and not to say that some men don’t become limerent for your looks. Was just putting that out there from what you have said.
“That said, I intended to stop posting so much on here and I’m still here *sigh*. I think it’s the temporary replacement for the interaction I was getting at the gym.”
I am starting to wonder about that myself when it comes to posting here. I enjoy the community and the people in it but I wonder if this is holding me onto the limerence.
I hope for the best for you in your future. I also hope you check in once and a while. I may cut back on actually posting but I probably will check in and read. And as a limerent I am sorry that these men are causing you distress falling into limerence for you. It is something I so hope I did not cause LO. If you don’t reply, take care of yourself and wear some shades cause the future is looking bright. 🙂
@Adam,
You have helped so many people here and you are an excellent writer. You were the first one here who made me feel human about my LE experience. It was probably the timing also, because I was having a rough time accepting hard advice. I could identify with your post because it really got into the meat and potatoes of my mood at the time. And I so needed it in that moment. Heartfelt thanks to you again for that.
I will hate to see you go, should you decide to go that route. Yet I also understand that this limerence is a M#@%^$# F%#@&@. So if that is what will help you recover best, then I wish you well.
Thanks, Adam.
When I read the page about what characteristics LOs typically have, I tick most of the boxes. When I open up to other women I have to be careful about who I open up to because they wish it happened to them. They don’t think past their own need for admiration from others nor to the downside of intense loneliness. I think that’s why they tend to respond with ‘but why you?’ Which really doesn’t bother me and I even find amusing. My brain is definitely wired differently from others (that’s the being slightly on the spectrum). At least here I don’t have to worry about opening up about these things. Especially because it is something I would stop instantly if it meant finding my community.
In some cases I can totally understand their attraction to me because I might be similar to their wives or have something in common with the guy himself. The times I’ve been floored by it is when it’s someone half my age who only ever dates stunning women. But I’m pretty sure that’s a case of projecting their mother wound onto me. They feel a safety to be themselves around me which they can’t do anywhere else.
I’ve had that a lot. I had hoped that by my mid-40s it’d settle down but it’s actually getting worse. I think that’s due to being more and more comfortable in my own skin. I think I just need to be bold and address the ear to ear smiles when I first start seeing them.
And that brings me to you, Adam, and what you’re getting from this place. I think you’re absolutely right about the pizza place. You’re free to be yourself here. But what if you could achieve that…. out there?
What do you need to feel safe enough to be who you are here, in real life?
And thank you for giving me the limerent perspective. Thanks to you I’m no longer fuming mad with my trainer. I don’t think he’s anywhere near as self-aware as you are, so I doubt there’s an apology coming my way, but it has definitely helped to understand where he might’ve been coming from.
I hope it all works out for you and your family ☺️
Thanks MJ. I wrote a lot of fiction and poetry when I was younger and actually believed in myself lol. Since I haven’t wrote anything in a really long time. Other than a few “letters” and “poems” to my wife. 😉
I’ll probably always be around to some degree. I just think I need to back off a bit. Whenever I delve into trying to help a new comer here I have to dive into my LE again. I have rehash old wounds and feelings. I have to relive memories and pains. It makes it difficult to let go when I am constantly revisiting the past. I thought I had a handle on it, but it seems like drinking it’s too enticing to get close to without completely submitting.
I saw a lot in your first post here that was common with my own limerence. I equally felt in awe of LO and how I can’t believe a woman so out of my league would even talk to me. Women, can’t live with them, can’t live without them, am I right? Haha just kidding ladies, you know I love you all. 🙂
“What do you need to feel safe enough to be who you are here, in real life?”
Cordelia
Not to have to look at the hurt in someone’s eyes because of something I said. The anonymity of the internet is why I can be forward like I am here. So I guess courage is what I need.
I think I’m doomed, this is too hard. It’s easier just to give into the feeling isn’t it? I tried so hard today not to fantasise or ruminate on imagined conversations but it consumes me, I’m exhausted! If I fantasise I can’t concentrate, if I try not to fantasise I can’t concentrate. I’ve gone past appearing to behave normally, I can barely speak in his presence, so much for the femme fatale I imagine myself as in our hypothetical dalliances!
Hi PC, I also struggled today – Mondays eh ? Maybe try to schedule a specific time to fantasise. An appointment in your diary with yourself for you to indulge in your LE that has a time limit. Im finding this can help a bit …still not easy. Are you surrounded by others at work (which I am not) this may help you maybe distract yourself. Perhaps make an effort to be friendly to someone at work who you admire or could connect with more – preferably someone safe ( eg female hetrosexual) this may distract you and be an outlet for your energy in a positive way (maybe less exhilarating but still warm and affirming)
Mondays tend to suck for me too. My LO doesn’t work Fridays, and she sometimes works from home on Thursdays. What I find is Wednesday evenings and Thursdays and sometimes Fridays are down days for me because I don’t get LO interaction. By Saturday I even back out a bit. but Mondays are filled with anxiety in anticipation of seeing LO and then being triggered when I do see her. Week after week this cycle seems to play out.
But on a positive note, a woman I just met today who I might become a client glimmered for me. She won’t become a LO but it felt good to feel attraction and interest in someone else besides LO.
Hi Speedwagon,
I can very much relate to that dissipating desire – I thought I was really turning a corner on Sunday then I see him Monday morning and, BOOM! It all feels so hopeless and consuming. If I could just get to that distant place and stay there!
Yeah, I’m really good at thinking ‘ooh,I’m doing well and this is going away’ when I haven’t seen him for a few days! But our strict policy of friendly terms only is being studiously maintained and there may be light at the end of the tunnel eventually. I just hope we can manage to make it work both knowing how we feel but having a pact not to act on it, going forward. I think I will need to strengthen myself up in case of unexpected opportunities and moments of weakness! But I suppose that is where purposeful living comes in. I’m still trying to work out how that looks for me. I’ve always been very much a ‘blown around by the breezes of life’ person! And re-directing towards my SO, which I am working hard at and feeling better about.
Hi C for Cat, can I ask how you approached ‘the disclosure’? I feel if I knew one way or the other I might have some peace, but if I’m wrong, and he feels nothing for me, is just a nice guy, then I’ll be so hugely embarrassed! The ickiness of that potential outcome makes my skin crawl and my stomach lurch!
Hi Problem Child. Well, I’m a bit ashamed to say we sat very close together in the pub and then threw ourselves at each other in the car park… So it was pretty obvious!
I’ve always found out someone likes me like that. It’s never a conversation thing, just a physical sizzle.
After my ‘oh it’s going really well’ earlier I feel very heartachey tonight. He’s being extremely careful around me but very flirty with other people, which is really hard. But I have no right to an opinion on his behaviour. I just want that for myself and it makes me feel like crying.
Why can’t I just be happy with what I have? Why does my heart yearn for this man who I can’t have? Sorry, I’ll probably regret writing this. I haven’t slept well for days.
Ah ok, yes that is usually how it happens for me too – no grown up conversation! Now I’m imagining a fumble in a pub carpark with him, oh stop my crazy head!
That is hard, I get jealous when he’s friendly with other men, let alone a woman! I analyse his every move. Perhaps your LO is protecting himself though? A form of transference I suppose.
I hope today is better! I am not sleeping well either, my head is too busy.
I wish we knew each other in real life, Problem Child, I think we’d get on pretty well!
He noticed I’d suddenly gone very quiet after I saw them flirting and was concerned about me. I don’t think he has any idea what upset me and I have no right to ask him to behave in any way; it’s down to me. Still exhausted this morning, didn’t sleep properly again and had a bad dream. It’s my head too, I wake up after just a few hours and it’s like a switch is flicked.
I’m trying to apply all the LwL techniques to be able to get through this week but I feel as if I’m running on empty and I’m too exhausted and sad to try and fight this when we have to hold each other and kiss every night.
Oh C for Cat, I know what you mean! I really want to turn to my SO for comfort but I feel like it’s dishonest – is it fueled by my desire for another man? Maybe by doing that though, we could transfer the feelings, stir up the passion we once had? (I’m assuming there was or is some with your SO?)
I had a sexual dream about another colleague for whom I have no LO tendencies at all! I don’t know what that says but it was very disturbing.
This too shall pass though, keep at it. I wish we knew each other for real too, it would be so nice to have someone around who’s in the same situation, but then again, we’d probably be no good for each other if you get my meaning!
Hello Adam, I am certainly no Lovisa nor authority on the big ”L” we are all struggling with. However I agree with Frederico, that it seems the high magnitude of guilt you put on yourself is not commensurate to what you have actually done. Imho you are too hard on yourself and you now need to let go of this LE. We are ALL just human beings that are imperfect in thought, mind and action in our relationships, work etc… The majority of us are all muddling along and trying our best and learning as we go. We all make mistakes and go off in some deep meaningful tangents and overthink stuff, especially those who have sensitive souls which I feel a lot of limerents have ( especially you Adam it seems to me) ! Let’s rejoice that we are not shallow types . Please bring some perspective to what you have actually done as if you were talking to a friend. Maybe then you will let go / close the chapter and simply grab life and have fun and joy with your amazing SO, family and friends…
IMHO
Okay, I will try to get some perspective on the situation. It’s difficult for me to be forgiving to myself. I have too many people that depend on me. Dallying off in my heart with another woman isn’t what the people depending on me need. But it is in the past for them, from what I can tell, so I need to put it in my past too. I will work on being in the present for the people that need me. Thank you for your reply.
Adam, Adam
You’re punishing yourself for something you already regretted and repented for. Put it in the bottom of the sea and don’t fish for it anymore.
Repent in Greek means “metanoia “, which means changing one’s’mind, that is: meta=after; noia comes from the Greek word nous=mind. A change of mind. It doesn’t mean you keep bringing it up if you already made up
your mind to do better. You need to put it in your past and leave it there. That you might backslide, it’s possible , but you keep on
renewing your mind. It’s only human to be fallible. We are not perfect. If it were so we would be in heaven. We are a work in process all the time…
Here’s a site with 30+ apology messages sent to earn their forgiveness. Look under the Word “ Forgiveness “, (saying sorry for lying. ). Don’t know how to send it directly to you. Maybe you can write a card to your wife and children with the apology, to make it “official “ as it is bothering you so much. Just a thought…
Stay well and strong. Blessings
MJ, good morning.Hope u had a good night sleep.
Your post didn’t have a reply button, and many others either.
I read you and feel for you. I have realized that there are very heavy cases of limerence ranging from
severe to light ones. You’re not alone on this my brother. Those chemicals have to run out of your system first(I believe) before you can take some control of your mind. You just have to cry it out as much as you can, scream and wallow in pain, don’t hold in your emotions. Find a private place in your home so you can do that until you run out of tears. It’s a way of humbling ourselves before God, and understanding that we are helpless and need His help. (Maybe this is the spiritual side of limerence ???) There’s this verse in the Bible that reads like this: “ Come to
Me all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I’m gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and My burden is light.” Book of Mathew 11:28-30) He will act in due time.
You say you see LO in everything, yeap, it happened to me also. For ten long months my life revolved around LO. I didn’t function at all as normally, but I don’t work (retired ) , my SO does the groceries shopping and I have a cleaning lady, so I had plenty of time to try and figure this Limerence out, but no, you just can’t figure this out, except cry and plead to God for mercy, and for Lo to leave you alone. I don’t think if I worked that I could do it without having a nervous break down. Still I broke down, uncontrollably, crying at church’s prayer group two times.I just said I had a terrible sadness and they all prayed for me and embraced me etc. And at Sunday services I’d also cry. I was just so fragile…There was always many people to hug me and say/pray nice words over me. It was a relief, a great relief! The ghost of LO is selfish, wants all of your attention. It’s all so ridiculous ! I didn’t want the family around or go see friends, everything that would stop me from those intrusive thoughts and rumination of Lo bothered me. I didn’t care for nobody . I just knew I needed to be alone, sometimes getting angry at my lizard brain for hurting me this way, others commanding the intrusive thoughts out. It gave me something to do but the thoughts were stubborn and wouldn’t leave. I went for plenty of walks thinking I could shake it off by walking fast, but the ghost of limerence was walking alongside me , ALL THE TIME!
Incredible this awful thing!!! By the third day of limerence i started taking anti-anxiety pills and sleeping pills , otherwise I would be in the mad house! The intrusive thoughts are there sometimes now and the sadness, but I can enjoy having some part of my mind back. That’s really like going to hell and back. Good Lord!
MJ, I think you need some medical help fast, at least to have someone to talk to an unburden your pain. You have too many things going on that needs your immediate attention. It’s very hard and unfair in a human being. We don’t want you to collapse before this Limerence thing . It will take its course, just it needs some time. Don’t wait till you get at the end of the rope.
We’re all learning from these malevolent LEs.
We just need help
and understanding.
Have peaceful day by the grace of the Lord.
“You need to put it in your past and leave it there.”
Maybe it’s time to move on. I was just telling Cordelia in another post that might mean moving on from here. I enjoy the community here and the people in it, but maybe I need to take some steps back away from here. At least for awhile. As much as I want to help new people it maybe detrimental to my progress. I don’t know for sure but I need to think hard about whether I need to be here or not.
I had an idea after reading your post and pondering it for awhile before I replied; about putting it in the past. There is a nice local pizzeria up by where my son’s lady friend lives. I’ve seen it when I go to and from taking him there. It always seems fairly busy and looks nice from the outside. Maybe taking my family to get pizza and openly talking about this rather than assume what everyone does and doesn’t know and how they really feel about it all. What do you think Nisor?
Thank you Nisor. As always, you have wise words for a pathetic soul, such as myself.
Sometimes I tire coming on here and sounding like a broken record. All I really do is punish myself for being such a shy pussycat in LOs presence. I’ll probably get judged heavily for that, but it’s honest. It’s just what happens. I wish I wasn’t though. It’s hard to look at her and not be angry, that I feel like I could have her, but I just can’t get over the hump with her.
LO really doesn’t bother me like you think. If anything, she usually resists my advances, so I’m pursuing a fantasy, plain and simple. Dude might be her SO but I don’t know and I’m not going to ask. Her or anyone. It’s my fault for never getting the hint.
I’ll be good for stressing myself out over her, but truthfully, I don’t ever sleep bad at all. I’m usually so physically spent at night, that I think it overrides the emotional aspect. Either that or I’m just good at compartmentalizing and I don’t even know it.
I think it’s also because I do pray about it and I always say a prayer for her. First thing in the morning and the last thing I do at night. Your Bible quote was very familiar. Perhaps this experience does have to have some spirituality aspect to it. It’s been a year. It has to be God’s grace working me through this.
I’m really trying to go see a Therapist. Even though I expect no miracles because hardly any of them know a thing about limerence. So I mainly expect to get a mediocre experience. Or maybe I’ll be able to get some sadness sorted out. Who knows? She really is dragging her feet about getting back to me, so that has me kind of perplexed also. I thought they always needed clients like me. Guess it’s a good thing I’m not suicidal. Yet..
@ MJ
I feel like if you made an effort just to meet this woman it would relieve a lot of tension from you. There has to be a way you can casually introduce yourself or have someone introduce you?
If you meet her, then you have the ability to at least say hi, smile, wave, whatever when you see her. And perhaps she will feel more comfortable and might even reciprocate? Also, she may become more real to you and less fantasy.
What do you think?
@Speedwagon,
I agree with you completely. At this point, my issue is 3 key opportunities I had to do all that late last year and everytime, she always found a way to duck out, go the other way, or find others to talk to instead of me. She saw me approaching, she knew I was going to speak and I think she just wanted to avoid the conversation at all cost. It’s the strangest $#!+. And it still doesn’t explain all the eye contact. I could go over and see her anytime, if I really wanted to. I guess I’m just paranoid about more flat out rejection. Mainly I’m just trying to respect what her body language has always told me, which I take as, stay in my lane.
Doesn’t mean I can’t consider your suggestions. It really wouldn’t be that hard. I want to do it for my own sanity. I just make things hard on myself now for some reason. I’ll keep you posted.
I’m rooting for you!
❤️
Good morning MJ
Sorry my answers are late but it’s because I live in another continent.
You made me laugh when you say you feel like a pussycat in Los presence. Ha. Of all the felines , a pussycat… try and be a tiger next time around. You’re too young to remember the Esso/Exxon gasoline commercial: “ Put a tiger 🐅 in your tank.” Yes roar like a tiger, or for that matter like a lion. You have the strength within yourself.
I don’t understand why are we afraid of other people? Specially Los.Wish someone can explain that. Feeling all flustered, and nervous, not knowing what to say etc. It’s very frustrating to feel that way, it is not a nice feeling to have.
It’s is good, very good that you sleep well , you deserve it. It’s medicine to the body and mind.
God will do a new thing for you, a road in the wilderness and rivers in the desert. Remember that “To eveything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven: A time to weep and a time to laugh” (Ecclesiastes 3:1, 4). It’s just happens you’re going through one of the processing seasons. But it won’t stay that way forever. Life has its ups and downs, it’s not a flat line of one thing or the other. We have to take the bad with the good. That’s why we need courage and need to build inner strength to cope with life ‘s difficult situations.Learn how to look at the positive side of things. Sometimes the lessons are hard, but we are tested for patience and endurance all the time. All the lessons learned in life make us wiser and more discerning… even if those lessons are delivered in dark envelopes…
Now, be good to yourself because no one else will, stay strong in your mind, pray, and be grateful for the good things you have, like health, a job , food , a roof over your head; count your blessings, rather than your losses, and you will see that you
come out winning. All the other things are just TEMPORARY! Good things will start coming to you somehow, sometime in the future. We’re together on this journey , you are not alone, thanks God!!!
Hello Adam.
Is it a beautiful day for you today? Make it a wonderful day, smile, only your attitude can make it beautiful. Do you know how much strength we have in ourselves to change things for the better? I know you have that strength, you just need a motivation!
“The older we get the more I realize the importance of walking away from people and situations which threaten my peace of mind,self respect, values and self worth.” Karen Salmansohn)
Right! We should strive for our peace of mind, make an inventory of the people we know and get rid of the toxic ones that steal the peace in ourselves and family. Very simple. Start saying No .
I don’t know how much your wife and children know about your “private life”, and how they’ll react. So it’s really up to you to open up if you
feel comfortable with it. You know them. The pizzeria place? , if you have privacy there with your family alone. Can you more or less anticipate how they’ll feel? Reaction? If not then it’s better to order the pizza and do it home. I guess, (MHO) that confronting this situation at home or elsewhere will give you and them a great relief. Then you can openly talk to one another freely. And that brings freedom. Freedom!
A quote for you:
“Never be a prisoner of your past. It was just a lesson, not a life sentence.”
Always cheering for you, whatever you decide to do. Life is beautiful and we need to enjoy it to the fullest before it runs out. Time doesn’t not wait for anybody. So , today is the day we take the first step towards a purposeful living!!!
Have a great day!
❤️ Onwards and always upwards Adam !
I’m behind you in the journey….hopefully following in the same positive direction !
Hi iMHO, thanks for the advice. I don’t work too closely with others so it would be difficult to strike up much of a conversation for any length of time. That said, just making the effort to be friendly with anyone at any time could be a good distraction. Re setting time aside for fantasising, I can happily do that, I just don’t know how to switch it off! I hope Tuesday turns out better for you. I’ve just spent 10 minutes staring at his online presence, who does that??!
Hi PC, from your various posts it seems you are in the heights of your LE. It must be exhausting for you! How much time and energy I have spent on mine is really unbelievable – in my job I’ve wasted complete days doing the minimum of what’s expected with my churning LE reverie. Maybe you are still functioning in your job. I have been struggling.
I’m trying to do practical steps and NOT DO self-analysis, navel gazing, ” tortured soul psycho babble” at the moment because I’ve done enough in my head stuff and I know I need to drag myself back into reality. real world, real consequences.
Everything I do that is not LO related is completely dull and disengaging but I know I need to push to do it anyway. I have had a better Tuesday and Wednesday because I have started to turn my energy to my job (at last!) I had a wake up call that I was ”failing” that helped flick that switch to be concientious like I used to be.
To answer your question , I also look at my LOs online status a lot. not for 10 minutes at a time but maybe every 10 minutes! And how exciting when it turns to green as if he is online just for me. I am trying to reduce this by practical tactics again eg Phone left in a different room, well out of arms reach. it’s very much work in progress – I have a long way to go to break this habit.
Hi MJ,
Thank you for the reply. You know when I read your post I do indeed see how insane this is – like, who is this person (me)? And wouldn’t you run a mile from her!
I also had a bit of a reality check yesterday – I think people are beginning to notice, not good. I feel embarrassed and ridiculous. I keep thinking of Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction! I need to rein it in but something in me, I don’t know is it the fear of losing the LE experience, the high, keeps dragging me back.
Practical steps yes, leave the phone elsewhere, I will try that. I am fairly addicted to that too! Who knew?
Really appreciate your comments and advice, I hope you have progress on the habit breaking this week!
This seems to be the hot blog comment section at the moment so I thought I would dump some thoughts and feelings here today.
Been struggling lately with a lot of feelings on anger about my LE. It seems to kind of be a new phase I’m in. I get angry with myself for feeling this way, angry with LO for not providing me the reciprocation I desire, and angry with God or the universe or whatever at my perceived unfairness of it all. One of the particular things I am angry about, that is strongly tied into my rescue fantasy for LO, is the fact that I provide a lot of provision, appreciation, and care for LO and yet her husband, who seems to be a poor provider and less than ideal loving husband and father, gets her affection. It’s stupid, I know! Total rescue fantasy! He is her husband for God’s sake, he is supposed to get her affection, yet I don’t respect the man one bit and maybe I don’t respect LO much either. It just irks me that she loves him. I’m fighting hard against this anger because it is so misguided. On top of that, he is a very different personality than me and because LO and I get along so well with what I feel is gobs of chemistry, I don’t see how she gets on with him from an interpersonal relationship point of view. If we have a ton of chemistry and I am so different from her SO then how does she have any chemistry with him? Again, such misguided thinking.
I’m venting because I found out today that I’m going to have to see LO and her SO at an office event in about a month. Spending the afternoon around the both of them seems dreary to me. I’ve done it once before and it wasn’t so bad, but not something I look forward to.
Any personal relationship I have with LO seems about dead at this point. We interact on work stuff a bit. Have a little bit of superficial bantor from time to time, but I try to keep her at a relational distance now. For the most part she seems indifferent to it. My emotions are pretty flat lined under this scenario, no real highs, no real lows. I prefer it that way. In all my time being introspective and self aware over this LE and reading up on all I can here at LWL I have determined that NC is the only real cure for limerence. The best I can do right now is just be as LC as possible and try to get on hoping each day/week/month gets a little better. It’s such hard work!
Hello speedwagon, I admire how you manage with this day to day contact, (my LO is long distance). So maybe some self congratulations are in order on your management of LE and progress ! You say ” I try to keep her at a relational distance [……] My emotions are pretty flat lined under this scenario, no real highs, no real lows”
This must be a win at LwL and taken as such – Yes ?!
On the Anger thing, maybe you are simply progressing into the next natural change phase and it’s totally normal to feel anger and not be hard on yourself. I was looking up “phases of change” which is often used in a work context but maybe applies more broadly to big changes in our lives that we don’t want to face and/or are imposed upon us. This article and fun emoji chart is quite informative :-
https://turningstonescoaching.wordpress.com/2012/06/28/phases-of-change-phase-3-resistanceanger-and-phase-4-letting-go/
The article says the next phase after anger is letting go…..
Best wishes
That is an interesting article. I like it and I feel I am sort of caught between anger and letting go. I have more and more resolve these days to keep LO at a distance and move past her so hopefully the anger will start to subside.
Thank you for sharing!
Hi Speedwagon, maybe DrL hands out awards at the end of the year? If he did I think you would get one for being a super high achiever in managing your LE, especially with the daily situation.
After the dreary afternoon you have coming up with LO and her SO, can you have something planned that you can look forward to ? Like a night out with your SO or friends to get dressed smart for…. (Btw isn’t ‘dreary’ such a great descriptive word of what it is. )
Oh,oh Speedwagon is loaded! And vent you must. Otherwise your mental and physical health will suffer.
I really admire you and all the other Limerents that are not reciprocated by their Los , and still have to see and interact with their LOs at work every day. It must be pure torture!
I wonder,Speedwagon, how did you feel emotionally when you disclosed to Lo and she responded negatively, (I believe you said?). Did you feel sad, hurt or do you think you’re on denial? This I ask because you’re upset and angry now with her and the whole world , and it seems you’re going through the Seven stages of a breakup. Which are: shock, denial, negotiation, isolation, anger, acceptance and hope. If so, be prepared to go through the wringer….
There is this site: Mindbodygreen , the seven stages of a breakup : how to get through and more- Sarah Regan.
Sorry, but I don’t know how to post directly to you)
Though you didn’t have a “real” relationship with Lo, your feelings are just as if you had one. Feelings are feelings. Period
“For the most part she seems indifferent to it.”
Anyonecan find themselves carrying the mental load in a relationship while the other is just there for a joy ride, doing nothing or just pretending all is well, or are plainly unaware of other people’s feelings. There are people like that. Totally unconscious. Therefore your helplessness and anger. You’ll come to a point where this is unsustainable, and opt for NC at most as possible. But her presence there? It’s like a sore finger! And hope she’ll leave the job. That would be ideal, isn’t it?
You question how can she relate to her SO when he doesn’t look like the match for her,(so I gather), remember that not everyone gets married to the proper partner. Some people marry for economical convinienece, a title, a position, fame, and some women marry for the simply reason not to stay in the “shelf”, etc. N/C is the real cure for limerence. You bet.
You stay well and strong and May God give you the wisdom to sort this out. Have a good weekend. Blessings
I appreciate your encouragement, Nisor. The day to day is tough, but I have put in so much work to figure out my own moods and what triggers them with LO, that I have learned to cope well.
I don’t know a ton of LOs backstory with her SO. Maybe she fell madly in love, or maybe she just wanted to be married and start a family. It should be of no concern of mine…I have my own amazing SO and family I need to focus on.
A quote for today:
“When people make you feel unwanted, don’t leave to make them feel sad or guilty, they won’t. Leave because you no longer have a reason to stay. Sometimes you have to be strong 💪🏽 for yourself. What is meant to be will end up good and what is not-won’t . Love is worth fighting for but sometimes you can’t be the only one fighting. At times, people need to fight for you. If they don’t, you just have to move on and realize what you gave them was more than they were willing to give you.”
A good weekend to all of you limerents. Be strong, be courageous. and lots of patience. Sending ❤️
(Author unknown)
“but sometimes you can’t be the only one fighting. At times, people need to fight for you. If they don’t, you just have to move on and realize what you gave them was more than they were willing to give you”
I love this. Exactly sums up my LO.
“My head is telling me to forget you ever existed but my heart is telling me to hold on for dear life and never let you go, and I have no f’ing idea which to listen to anymore.”
“My head says ‘Who cares?’ But then my heart whispers ‘You do, stupid …'”
It’s a sick feeling I’m sure you get, when you think you are the better man for her, across the board. Lately I have seen LO with her guy friend too and I wonder why he makes it look so effortless with her, and I’m just that “other” guy. (Damn eye contact) I don’t necessarily get mad about it. I just try to remember it’s her life. No matter how much she tips my emotional scale, (and we all know she does) I can’t hate her for not liking me enough. It’s pointless. However I still don’t like it.
I know our situations differ, but thats one thing I tell myself when “they” are present. Trying to keep myself sane over it..
Good luck at the office event. That is going to be a hard one.
Not sure if this is your type of music, but you can probably identify well with the lyrics. It’s on my LO playlist.
Camo & Krooked-
“Like I do”
https://youtu.be/CZnkGZJGuEo
Funny you just posted that song, MJ. I was going to post this song by Crooked Colours next in Limerence Music. Similar name and all.
This song makes me think of summer on the beach (even though I’m more a winter person 😅) but it’s clearly about the effect we can have on others and inspire change in them.
I’d never seen the video until just now. It’s cute.
https://youtu.be/_6ATS3uGI-Y
That was cute. I would love LO to be like that. I’d go anywhere with her..
@Speedwagon, MJ and Adam
Here’s a little poem I wrote. It’s actually kind of about a friend not LO but the problem, the common denominator, was me and my masochistic ways. Forgive me and my Psychology 101 textbook brain – schema therapy provided some answers there.
I consistently found comfort in feeling like I loved the other more than they loved me. When other people loved or admired me I pushed them away. I wrote this after losing a friend I adored but constantly excluded me and treated me as lesser than (although the ‘douleur exquise’ etc was more about LO). You may find you can relate…
Here goes –
You charmed me
with your infectious excitement
about teeny tiny miniature things
tempered by dark moods
self-loathing brings
the way you enjoyed my pain
my douleur exquise
the self-flagellation
perverse way to please
conditioned from childhood
by an unloving mother
to deny self love
or from any other
a soul tormented
by terrors day and night
in the dark, the unknown
but the familiar, by light
the familiar that led me to you
comfort in pain
by exclusion and rejection
again and again
the power you needed
to prove to your self
you had succeeded
in finding a love
you returned in unequal measure
from a masochist
also searching for pleasure
the M to your S
until I outgrew
my thirst for douleur
and the shadow of you
I can sort of relate. I can tell from this, you really liked that person..
I feel like LO might go out of her way sometimes to make me feel bad or maybe jealous. It’s never really in my face, mean-like or bitchy though. She’s just set in her way.
I think Speedwagon’s LO might be like this friend.
I thought you might relate more to the masochistic part. Adam, too. Enjoying rejection because it’s safe. It’s what you know. My mother loved me but she wasn’t lovING. Lots of mothers are like that. Or their love is conditional and based on performance of some sort. If we perceive rejection, it sits with us and we come to know it as normal. It becomes a comfort of sorts believing we’re never good enough. But it’s self-fulfilling.
So, go be great!
And great in your own eyes, not LO’s or SO’s. In yours.
And yes, MJ, E for effort. Great to hear you got straight back out there and found another therapist. The first therapist might have fed you some 💩, but does it matter? (That’s rhetorical, the answer is ‘no, no it doesn’t matter at all, Cordelia. You’re absolutely right’ 😁).
I like it Cordelia. The lines that struck me the most were right from the start ….
“You charmed me
with your infectious excitement
about teeny tiny miniature things”
And I don’t think she even knew she was doing it. Unlike the remainder of your poem I felt no ill will or manipulation from her. If anything it might have just been pity because she knew the position I was in and I’m certain she noticed the change in my behavior.
Like how giddy she would get at the prospect of snow cones. Both her and her daughter love them. So I’d endure a few brain freezes when she would get one for me too, so she didn’t feel bad that I didn’t want it.
@Cordelia,
You are so so right about rejection. I went through a period where I didn’t see LO. Maybe for almost a month. I started to get very anxious that she might forget me altogether.
One day she showed up for lunch and gave me a not so nice kind of look. I was kind of shocked but didn’t get anxious or sad about it.
I actually felt good about it afterwards because I said, at least she didn’t forget about me.
Rejection=Normal
🤪
@MJ
You talked about being afraid of rejection below and I wonder if that’s really the case. You chose someone you were sure would reject you. But then you behave out-of-character around her, no?
I was awful to LO until I forged a friendship. Because I was more afraid he actually did like me.
If LO is hanging out with an older dude then maybe you’re not such a ludicrous option. Maybe that’s more a fear than rejection? Just framing it within my own experience of self-sabotage and my perverse need for rejection 🤷♀️
You may have a point there. I definitely don’t see my age as a deterent. I know I did go into this whole LE thinking there was no way I would ever catch this girls eye. She is waaaay the f@#% out of my league!! So imagine my shock and awe when the opposite happened. No wonder I’m so messed up.
Dude is about my size. 6’1, older, seems laid back.
I think LO can see similarities and I question if that’s what she does when she looks at me.
I’m going back to what you said in the beginning. I think I had something here for maybe 10 seconds. But my dumb a$$ wouldn’t own up to it, so she couldn’t do anything to help me out and ends up not liking me at all in the end. That’s the part I want to change.
Thank you for sharing the poem…I’m still dissecting it. Lol! It’s heavy but beautifully written.
Haha yes it is heavy. I enjoy writing out my pain 😅
I didn’t know what Limerence was when I wrote it but it pretty much describes my LE combined with a toxic friendship.
Great, we have a poet among us!
Congratulations. Keep on penning your thoughts, great therapy.
Be well
and 👍
Thanks, Nisor ☺️ When I pass away, my daughter will curse me for all the notebooks I’ve filled over the years 😅 I will tell her to have a big bonfire at my wake!
Hi, Bonfire? No! Have it published!
Guys, I need help. I tried so hard not to but I’ve fallen into a proper LE now I’ve been spending so much time with him and having ‘forced’ physical contact (we are in a play together and have to kiss). We both agreed to work really hard to stay just friends as he is married and I have a partner. I know he is strongly attracted to me but he seems to find it much easier to keep that under control, whereas I’ve fallen for him and I’m just in pain.
The issue is this: once we finish this play there are auditions for the next one. It’s a play and a part I’ve always wanted to do and I know there is no way I will ever have the chance to do again. But the likelihood is that we would be playing opposite one another again.
He originally said it might be too hard for him to do it, given his feelings, but now he seems to have got over that issue. I haven’t slept properly in a couple of weeks trying to make a decision. He is very tactile and flirty with a younger woman in the current cast, which makes me feel old, tired and boring, and he is very affectionate with his wife. Both are like a knife to the heart. I have no right to be hurt by anything he does for goodness’ sake, but I am drowning at the moment. The young woman will definitely be in the play.
I really want to do the play but can I cope with the situation? I know there is no hope for anything to come of this, I have an SO who I have a loving friendship with but I have never been attracted to, which I always thought would be forever and our lives are totally enmeshed but I’m starting to question even that.
The only glimmer of hope is that I feel better with him if I am cheerful, friendly and focus on other people, rather than letting it get to me, bashing myself over the head with it and being miserable and generally not fun to be around for anyone. So can I use that going forward and manage to keep looking at all the useful reminders I’ve got from this site to stop me feeling so heartachey when I look at him? Will that allow me to be able to do a play I desperately want to do without making myself ill with longing and self-hatred? Or do I step away and not do it?
A couple of weeks ago I really thought I could do it and felt very positive that I could use the techniques here to live with what I now know is my propensity to limerence – to be able to redirect all the energy my brain puts into it and be able to see LO as a friend I share my hobby with. We don’t see or contact each other outside the group’s activities and our SOs are often there too. I’ve managed to get over a previous LO who is a good friend and have come out the other side able to spend time with him in our friendship group and enjoy his company without the sickening passion of limerence. But that was after a period of coincidental NC.
At the moment I am exhausted from not sleeping, recovering from an injury, in pain with headaches, having late nights every night because of the play, which is also emotionally taxing, and not in a good place to make a decision about anything. But I need to.
In the interest of complete disclosure, I have hesitated about asking in here because I think the responses I get will be the ones that will leave me in despair. I feel so sad when I think I may not be able to do the thing that I love more than anything, the worst part of which is that it is the thing that gives me the most purpose, that feeds my soul. I have another option but it’s not the same.
I have made a decision so many times one way or the other. I know if I didn’t feel so exhausted and ill at the moment I would be able to deal with my feelings for him in a more rational way.
My head tells me I should not do the play, have a period of NC and try to get over him, but my heart is screaming no, and not just because of him. In a way my life would be much easier if one of us didn’t get the part but he will definitely get his (the advantages of being a good looking male actor in a female-dominated hobby). I want to do the play and this situation is getting in the way.
So… Limerent friends with much more experience than me… What do I do? If by any miracle anyone thinks I can make it work, what techniques can I use to stop myself being so affected by the way he is with me and other people (he’s been maintaining a distance from me since we talked but as irrational as it is and as much as I recognise that is what I need, it feels like even more of a contrast with how he is with others and I can’t help but feel rejected)?
Sorry for the lengthy brain dump. I used this post because it’s the busy one and posts get lost so quickly, but also because courage is the thing I think I need here. What kind of courage is another question!
Hi C4Cat
I’ve posted my many methods all over this blog. As someone who just couldn’t get over my LO (more than 20 years in total although 15 years in the middle where I genuinely loved him as a friend only) I think I used just about every trick in the book.
Books and therapies that all added up to understanding myself and most importantly learning to love myself (which is an ongoing battle and there are days I go backwards again) and cured me (I hope for good!) of my limerence –
The most efficient method I found was mirror work. Stare at yourself in the mirror for ten minutes repeating a mantra like ‘I forgive you and I love you’.
It didn’t work the first couple of times I tried. I probably wasn’t desperate enough. Once it started working I could not stop the tears. I cried more than 40 years of repressed emotions doing the LonerWolf Dark Night of the Soul workbook. I also recommend the Self Love workbook. It helps reconnect you with you and fill the void you’re trying to fill with LO.
Read ‘the Courage to be Disliked’. Adlerian psychology is a tough pill to swallow but I really think he was onto something. Consider what your ultimate goal is. What do you need to do to get there?
Schema therapy. If you haven’t done it. Really requires a psychologist though.
Reparent your inner child – read How to do the Work by the Holistic psychologist
and address your mother wound. If you’d had all the love and affection you needed as a child, would you be limerent now? My inner child was always miserable and crying when I visited her in my head. Locked in a room. Now she runs through fields of daisies with a flower crown on her head. If your mind is so powerful it can create limerence, it can be equally powerful in relieving it.
None of these are quick fixes, but in my experience they were essential components of my limerence recovery program 😅 I had to quit the gym I was training at and loved because I believed my trainer was becoming limerent for me. I was also worried I could’ve ended up limerent for him so I know it could still happen which means being smart about the choices I make. It was a damn hard decision to make and I cried for a week. But the alternative outcome could have been much worse. It was the lesser of two undesirable outcomes. Given the work I’ve done, and my current level of self-respect, in your shoes, I would just be honest with myself and work within my own limitations. Break a leg! (I’m sorry if that’s the injury you have… I just didn’t want to say ‘good luck’… you know what I mean!)
C4C…
First, I’m sorry for the agony. I can relate. I just did my emotion dump on the blog yesterday.
Can I ask a couple questions? Are you a shoe-in for the part? Is there a chance you don’t get it, and powers out of your control make the decision for you? Seems to me you ought to at least try out. But let’s say you do get the part. Is it possible to go about your acting business with him but then cut him out and proactively distance yourself in all other situations? This is what I try to do with my LO and it works reasonably well. I wouldn’t say I’m cheery each day but I function well enough. Wondering if you can do the same? Would the new part involve kidding him? Maybe everything would be easier on you if that was not a part of it all.
I hate to see your LO hold so much power over you that it causes you to not pursue your passions. I say keep pursuing your passion and keep fighting against the LE. Cut him out completely to the extent you can and just go about the business of acting.
Correction…”kissing him”
C4Cat
You have a lot going on in your head. I can feel you on a lot of it. The pain of commitment yet the yearning for something new. Some of your pain I cannot relate to. Physical contact was an unspoken boundary of LO’s. I shook her hand the first time I met her in person and that’s more a habit I grew up with than anything.
What you say about him flirting with another younger woman … LO was single when I met her but about a year or so into meeting her she started seeing a man. I didn’t met him in person until they were together about six months. And my first reaction to seeing him was how young he was. Even younger than LO. And in my head … “What? You thought you actually had a chance you stupid old man?!” Which is silly and stupid. I knew I was never going to tear down my life to be with her. I knew she never saw me as more than a co-worker. But yet, I felt hurt that her choice was a man so much younger and better looking than me.
I too questioned my current relationship. The difference is apparently your LO shows you some interest and affection. Whereas I knew that wasn’t the case with me. Well, deep down outside of the limerent wishful thinking. It’s a sobering thought though. As you said it makes you look at your current relationship and what it means. “Why am I honestly considering this scenario?” I never thought that a woman could tempt me to the point that I would make that consideration. It makes you look at yourself too. “Why am I thinking this? What brought me here in the first place?” And then you might try to vilify your current relationship. “Well if he/she didn’t do X than maybe I wouldn’t feel this way! Maybe if he/she WOULD do X than maybe I wouldn’t feel this way!” Which is the road your limerence wants you to take to satisfy itself with the high that LO gives and the thoughts that LO would fix all your relationship problems. It’s an ugly road to take.
LO as a friend is hard road to travel, though apparently you have done it once already. I don’t think I could have managed it if LO hadn’t left. Even with the evidence at hand I would have never been more than a co-worker to her and her being in a relationship now, I still think the limerence would have continued and I couldn’t have managed it myself. Which to me is shameful on my part as she is a wonderful and fun woman to be around. I missed out, possibly, on an actual friendship even after she left because of the limerence.
I feel you on the sleep. Though I don’t think mine is limerent related. But about the last two weeks I have been only getting 3-4 hours sleep each night. Once I get to sleep I can, it’s getting to sleep I am struggling with.
I can only give my thoughts on my limerence when it comes to whether you should do the play or not. And that is, physical touch would send me into overdrive. If I saw LO again and she was like “Adam it’s been forever!” and hugged me, even a purely platonic hug, the limerence would be back at an all time high. While I am someone that grew up with a childhood that had non-existent physical affection, outside of my mother, I developed a physical touch love language. So for me physical touch of almost any kind is associated with romantic love not just affection in general. You say that your LO and your spouses are there at practice and the plays? Obviously they are both accepting of this physical interaction that you have in the play. That must mean that they trust you two that is nothing more than a part in a play. Me? I don’t think I could take seeing my wife kiss another man or woman (well maybe a woman 🙂 ) even for a part in a play. I trust her, my wife, just not the other person. So maybe take that trust that they both have in you two to fuel your determination to not let the kiss in the play be anything more than a part in the play. If they trust you, than trust can yourself.
Again I cannot speak for mutual limerence/affection, I can understand the feelings of rejection. It was because in my head I had built this throne for LO to sit in. I created a life around her. I idealized her. She was what I wanted her to be in my head. But she wasn’t. She was herself. Over a year later some days my mind wanders and I wonder, she left because I don’t mean anything to her. “How could you leave without regret, am I that easy to forget” to quote a song. Even when I wonder whether LO remembers me or not I have to remember that her mind was clear and mine wasn’t/isn’t. She just moved on in her life. She didn’t reject me. She moved on.
A song to share with you. I listen to it when my limerence tries to creep back in. This is song is how to strive to see her. A pleasant and healthy way to see our relationship as friends/co-workers.
Im Gonna Be Around — Micheal Learns To Rock
https://youtu.be/Y4Kbf9_hBMo
It’s been so long since we took the time
To share words from deep inside us
We’re in our own world, spinning our Wheels
But you know how I feel
Since the first time I took your hand
My love for you has just been growing
You always seem to understand
You know how I am
I’m gonna love you till the end
I’m gonna be your very true friend
I wanna share your ups and downs
I’m gonna be around
When you’re alone ’cause I’m away
Don’t be sad, don’t be afraid
I’m gonna turn my thoughts to you
Like I always do
I’m gonna love you till the end
I’m gonna be your very true friend
I wanna share your ups and downs
I’m gonna be around
Catch you when you fall
Hold you when you’re down
Sharing every moment
I wanna show you all I do
I believe I’ve found a miracle in you
I’m gonna love you till the end
I’m gonna be your very true friend
I wanna share your ups and downs
I’m gonna be around
I’m gonna love you till the end
I’m gonna be your very true friend
I wanna share your ups and downs
I’m gonna be around
I’m gonna love you till the end
I’m gonna be your very true friend
I wanna share your ups and downs
I’m gonna be around
I’m gonna love you till the end
I’m gonna be your very true friend
I wanna share your ups and downs
I’m gonna be around
@Adam,
That’s a really nice song. Adding it to LOs playlist.
Thanks.
Its taken on a life of its own.
It won’t stop growing..
🤯🤠😎
I like a lot of their songs. When you said you liked the above one, I went through my MLTR playlist and here are few you might like. They are a Swedish band that sings in English. They have been singing since the 90’s but I only discovered them a few years ago.
Most of their songs are all in the “adult contemporary” category.
This one reminds me of you, LO and the Dude.
The Actor
https://youtu.be/3mbQSnbNr-E
This is the first song of theirs I listened to it and of course it went on the limerent playlist.
Nothing To Lose
https://youtu.be/Tts3v5zrtdw
And of course I KNOW you will be able to relate to this. A lot of their music is on youtube if you want to further listen.
More Than A Friend
https://youtu.be/-pwlFaltrvc
Well it’s quitting time finally, so I am going to head home. Yay!
Adam.
“I don’t think I could take seeing my wife kiss another man or woman (well maybe a woman 🙂 ) even for a part in a play.”
I’ve been in several plays in which I had to kiss someone, somtimes repeatedly. It’s never been someone I wanted to kiss. Not once. And it’s so awkward and impersonal to have to do it in front of an audience.
I can’t imagine having to do any actual love scene … like grinding on someone. Yuck.
Marcia
My favorite writer Charles Bukowski wrote, I think it was in his novel Women that for him “kissing is more intimate than _______”. He was pretty crude at times. But I agree for the most part. Coming home to see her “making out” with another man would hurt more than the carnality of intercourse.
Adam,
” But I agree for the most part. Coming home to see her “making out” with another man would hurt more than the carnality of intercourse.”
Really? I’d be a lot more hurt if I was maried and my husband had sex with a woman instead of just kissed her. That being said, I’d rather he hooked up with a rando he didn’t care about than fall in love with another woman he never touched. If I had to pick one. Neither is ideal.
Marcia
I think it is because an physical affair can just be the carnal part of being human. Adult entertainment proves that you don’t need love to have sex.
To me kissing is something that we do to connect to a person. The first kiss, to tell the other person we are serious about starting this relationship. Kissing a woman on the forehead is “you are safe with me” a kiss on the cheek “what would I do without you” a hard kiss pressed her up against the wall “I love you and still find you as sexy as day one”.
That may just be me. Because also it could be the one time I came home to her having sex with another man, it was the only time. Whereas getting the point of kissing/making out was a long path to get there which means the EA started long ago.
Adam,
“To me kissing is something that we do to connect to a person. The first kiss, to tell the other person we are serious about starting this relationship.”
I just don’t agree with you. I’m sorry. Kissing can mean a lot of things. Sometimes, yes, it conveys connection and the desire to start a relationshp. But other times it’s a crime of opportunity. A gateway to casual sex with someone who happens to be there and is down for it. Or a testing of the water to see if there’s some level of chemistry. Or maybe the desire to get some expereince. Could mean any number of things but it is most definitely not always serious.
“That may just be me. Because also it could be the one time I came home to her having sex with another man, it was the only time.”
I’m sorry you had to see that. That would have been devastating. Particularly in your own home.
“Whereas getting to the point of kissing/making out was a long path to get there which means the EA started long ago.”
I don’t know your wife’s partciular situation, but the EA could have started a long time ago. Or maybe there was no EA.
Oh dear, I didn’t mean it that way Marcia. I was still talking hypothetically. My wife has been totally faithful to me since we have been married. I guess I really worded that poorly. I was just meaning that if I did come home to one or the other one would hurt more than the other and I could probably forgive PA over a EA.
Adam,
Oh, ok. I misunderstood you.
Your comment about kissing being more intimate than sex reminded me of the line in the movie “Pretty Women” that she’ll do anything but kiss. It’s too personal.
I remember looking up one of the legal brothels in Nevada after rewatching the movie several years ago (so I can’t say if it’s still true). There were two things you couldn’t pay for — kissing and … back door action. (I have to be careful how I write that as Dr. L will get mad at me. :))
Here’s my question … how can a man get into the sex if there’s no kissing? I don’t mean emotionally into it but physically into it?
Kissing is a lost art.
The two best kisses I ever got were from my HS girlfriend and LO #2.
When she decided to ramp things up, LO #2 looked at me and said,
“Don’t say or do anything.”
Then, she kissed me like no woman ever had and no woman has since.
Maybe that’s why Gustav Klimts most famous work is The Kiss.
“Here’s my question … how can a man get into the sex if there’s no kissing? I don’t mean emotionally into it but physically into it?”
Marcia
There are things she can do outside of kissing to get the game going. But mostly I don’t know. Not sure how the cliche that men complain about foreplay comes from. Foreplay kissing is more than welcome for me to get started. Hell she can kiss me (dunno if it’s intentional or not sometimes) goodbye or hello when I get home and I’m ready to go close the bedroom door. Though I would say those kisses in public she gives me that get that response are totally intentional lol but I still love em
As far as be it physical or emotional, I think it’s all about where the kiss is placed as to message being sent to the brain. If I kiss her forehead that’s a completely different message I am trying to send her than if I come up behind her and kiss her on the neck or behind her ear. Totally trying for two different things in those instances.
I agree with L.E. about kissing. I have memorable kisses I still can remember from more than 10 years ago with my wife.
And that was when I was single and a gal was going for it all and it started with making out. And she was REALLY good at it. But I cut it short of that because I just wasn’t down for anything else. But the whole thing started because she was emotionally invested because I had been talking to her and helping her through her pregnancy and the baby’s daddy abandoning her when he found out she was pregnant. I guess I was emotionally invested too. So while I would have never initiated I certainty didn’t stop her initiating until it went further than I wanted to.
Adam,
“As far as be it physical or emotional, I think it’s all about where the kiss is placed as to message being sent to the brain.”
I think a kiss can be both physical and emotional. Both turn you on and shake you to your very core.
The placement I think says more about intent.
“And that was when I was single and a gal was going for it all and it started with making out. And she was REALLY good at it. But I cut it short of that because I just wasn’t down for anything else. … I certainty didn’t stop her initiating until it went further than I wanted to.”
Why not? Why did you want it to go further if you liked her and thought the moment was hot?
LE,
“The two best kisses I ever got were from my HS girlfriend and LO #2.”
I’ve had two really great kissing experiences, too. They were also best sex experiences.
Maybe the Universe only doles out a couple per person per lifetime.
Marcia,
It’s probably a good thing the universe only sparingly hands them out. Otherwise, we might be even worse off than we already are.
My father explained how to kiss a woman to me. My HS girlfriend gave me OJT.
In HS, I read an autobiography of Minnesota Fats, the pool player. He said that that you should hold a pool cue like you’d hold a piccolo not like you’d hold a mop.
You can apply the same philosophy to kissing.
“Why not? Why did you want it to go further if you liked her and thought the moment was hot?”
Marcia
I had no sexual experience up to that point. So I guess it was fear of the unknown. I hadn’t had those feelings in my body happen from someone else and didn’t know wtf was going on. Not to mention I was raised in a very religious and conservative home so I knew the price to pay for premarital sex was hell. Which is ironic as I had sex with my wife before we were actually legally married. So maybe I still am going to hell lol
Adam,
“I had no sexual experience up to that point. So I guess it was fear of the unknown. I hadn’t had those feelings in my body happen from someone else and didn’t know wtf was going on. Not to mention I was raised in a very religious and conservative home so I knew the price to pay for premarital sex was hell. ”
Ah. What did you tell her? Did she ask why you didn’t want to do more?
LE,
“It’s probably a good thing the universe only sparingly hands them out. Otherwise, we might be even worse off than we already are.”
I totally disagree. The Universe should dole out a lot more of them. The two guys I mentioned … If I totaled my time with them, it was a less than a year. Seems a complete shame that you’d experience something that fantastic for less than a year of your adult life.
“In HS, I read an autobiography of Minnesota Fats, the pool player. He said that that you should hold a pool cue like you’d hold a piccolo not like you’d hold a mop. … You can apply the same philosophy to kissing.”
I don’t know what that means. There’s really only one thing those two guys did that made it so much better: judicious use of the tongue.
THey were also both LOs, so that of course ratcheted things up in the heat department. But that’s not a part of it one can control.
I don’t remember exactly. I do know I told her I had to get home. We had been sitting in my car talking together since I got off work at 11pm and it was approaching 5am. I had to get home because I was still living with my folks and I had to live by my parents rules and was out way past what I should have. So that part of it wasn’t a lie. I do remember telling her it had nothing to do with her. She was very attractive and good at what she does. (REAL good.)
But mostly (if I haven’t already mentioned it) I felt I would have been taking advantage of her. The reason she had come talk to me was that she had told her boyfriend earlier that she was pregnant. And the pos left her. She was vulnerable, full of sadness, confusion and hormones. And as much as I honestly would have liked it to go on, I would have felt like a cad if I did. So I saw her to her car and then hauled a$$ home.
Adam,
“The reason she had come talk to me was that she had told her boyfriend earlier that she was pregnant.”
But didn’t that turn you off? It literally Mother Nature’s deterent. Not to be gross, but it’s another man’s seed. It’s the female equivalent of a hot man … talking about his kids. They are not only the physical evidence of a sexual relationship with his wife but evidence of him having a whole other life. You can block out a partner or spouse. Hard to block out kids. For me, anyway.
That made me lol Marcia …. you really gonna ask if a 20 year old virgin is making his best choices when I woman climbs on his lap to make out with him? 🙂 I clearly wasn’t thinking with my rational brain. That is until the morals my parents, especially my father, taught me about the right way to treat a woman kicked in. And that’s when I knew I had to do the right thing.
But to answer your question no that didn’t even cross my mind. One out of two negative outcomes from a casual sexual encounter were negated; pregnancy. So if I had continued I would have been left with the possibility of STDs. And by the time I got home and my head wasn’t swimming in hormones I was particularly glad I didn’t for that reason more than morals.
Adam,
“That made me lol Marcia …. you really gonna ask if a 20 year old virgin is making his best choices when I woman climbs on his lap to make out with him? ”
LOL. You have a point.
But I do think a lot of young guys would have been turned off. Maybe not necessarily sexually but worried the woman might want help raising the baby. And one that wasn’t his.
“So if I had continued I would have been left with the possibility of STDs.”
I mean … if you’re worried about that, you won’t have sex with anybody. There are ways of reducing the chances, but the only foolproof ways is not to engage at all.
“Maybe not necessarily sexually but worried the woman might want help raising the baby.”
And honestly that might have been part of it. She had been coming to visit me a lot at work. Two to three out of my five shifts she would come to talk to me for a couple of months. And a lot of times it was for long hours. Maybe she was trying to seal the deal. Which to a point I can not blame her as she as a mother is already instinctively looking out for her child that she planned to keep.
Her baby’s father bailed and her parents wanted nothing to do with her for the sin of premarital sex. I often wonder where I would be in life if I would have kept the relationship, whatever it was, going. I did feel a great deal of empathy for her situation and maybe she read that. She always made compliments that I was “so nice”, “so sweet”, “you don’t treat me like other men do”. I didn’t see it as abnormal behavior because that’s the way I was raised. I honestly would have considered it had she continued to be persistent and not backed off. She was such a sweetheart.
After that night I never saw her again. She left a letter at my job. So I didn’t have an address to write back to her. But, in the letter, she apologized for coming on to me, knowing my home life with religion and sex. She had found a place (she would have to move out of state) that was religiously run (I believe she was Catholic) that was a safe haven for pregnant women and young mothers where she would have the resources to birth her child and take care of it until she could become dependent on her own. I was glad to hear that. And every time I have this memory I hope that she found happiness in life. She has a special place in my heart.
Marcia,
Fats’ comment meant that shooting pool required skill, finesse, and a delicate touch, much like playing a piccolo.
Your comment about the two guys infers that they had all of those, albeit in a different context.
If they knew how to kiss, they knew other things.
LE,
“Your comment about the two guys infers that they had all of those, albeit in a different context.
If they knew how to kiss, they knew other things.”
Kissing-wise, they didn’t jam their tongue down my throat. Sounds ridiculously simplistic but is surpisingly hard to find.
And the rest of it … they didn’t ask for permission or forgiveness. 🙂 Again, sounds very simple. Not easy to find.
Adam,
“And honestly that might have been part of it. She had been coming to visit me a lot at work. ”
Was she your age? Only 20? She was probably scared. Having no support (boyfriend and parents out of the picture) would be scary for any pregnant woman but particularly for one so young.
Marcia
Yes she was young. 18 or so. Had just graduated high school the previous year. I would have been 24 at the time. So not that much older than her. And yeah I can imagine it was very scary for her. That’s why I would take the time to talk to her.
C for Cat,
Hello Friend. I really feel you in this situation. With actual, physical touch and kissing a real LO, knowing he is attracted to you. It has to be torture, knowing it will probably never go farther beyond that. On top of it all,, you are watching him flirt with a much younger Woman who is in the cast. You also know he is affectionate with his Wife. He must be a real ladies man. I’m almost seeing a pattern there.
I’m not one who can probably give the best advice here, since I’m pretty much off my rocker when it comes to my LO. I absolutely have no courage because if I did, I wouldn’t be a year into my LE without much worth holding on to. Yet because my options are so little to non existent, I keep the LE insanity alive.
I think part of this for you (and even myself), is the thrill of something you can’t have. Like myself, you have become immersed in the fantasy, of being with him, that it drives you crazy when you are left without him at the end of the day. Your situation is even more insane because of the interaction in a play, where you both have to be physical with each other and then go on afterwards like nothing ever happened. For a guy, that is so much easier for us to separate the physical from the emotional. That is why you probably notice him keeping himself calm after the fact, because he is not as emotionally invested in you as you are in him. And that hurts you because you want so much more. Guys are wired differently. That is why you get bored or pissed off with us when we don’t meet you emotionally.
I want the same with my LO. I want to be into her emotionally, physically, sexually and spiritually and whatever other way there could be. Yet she just lives her life, knowing, thinking I want her. Probably for just sex and that probably repulses her. I’m just another swinging d!@%. Like every other guy she sees drooling over her. I want it to be so much more than that. I want to show her, prove to her, be unlike anyone else to her and yet I can’t get her to sit still long enough to stop and talk to me when she sees me coming. It’s maddening to me so much, that it drives me to tears and sadness and panic attacks for gods sake. She’s just a young Woman. She’s 28, a person. A human being. Who has such amazing power over me and yet she shouldn’t. I’m so immature for being 52.
I get why you are hurting and the only suggestion I can maybe give you, that may not even be possible where you are. Would you be to find acting work elsewhere in your area?? Thereby giving you something you still love to do?? I know you said you really wanted the part for the next play and he would be acting opposite you again most likely. Is that something you really want to keep putting yourself through? Only you can answer that.
People give me true, good, honest advice and I probably take in very little. If any at all. I would rather mentally assault myself, rather than actively get on a dating app or find a place to meet singles. Any and every possible interaction with my LO is always thrown off, if she’s not in the right place, or she’s with a friend, or with Dude, or she looks at me funny, or I see her in the car, so then we can’t talk. I mean I have an excuse for everything. And really all it is, is I’m afraid of her. Afraid of a no, her rejection, her laughing at me. Even scared of saying something and then me being wrongly accused by her of something I didn’t mean.
That’s the hell I put myself through almost daily with LO and that has become the norm for me every day at work. Somehow I’ve grown accustomed to it but I know I don’t like it. Even if I transferred out of that building, I wouldn’t be able to get over next door to work with her again, because it’s a separate department from mine and I would have to at least transfer out of my department first, before my move there would be considered. It’s too much like work, so I don’t.
You are losing sleep over this situation, so it’s no wonder you are mentally and physically spent. It’s probably not too healthy for you. Yet I know how LO can suck you in like a vacuum. It’s like anything else can go out the window. Couple that with an SO you say you are not into so much, it’s no wonder you’ve cornered yourself into an LE.
So I suggest acting elsewhere if you can find it. Or go NC and forget about the next play. If not, then we’ll all still be here for you, for the next breakdown. Good luck Dear.. 🥰🤗
If you want to keep the conversation going, I left you another message at the Coffeehouse/Transferring Limerence blog from a few days ago. There’s even a fresh vegan cake waiting for you there too. Am I good or what??
And that’s the reality of addiction, isn’t it? We aren’t ever going to listen. For me, the advice caused me pain. I needed to get to a place that was so low the only direction to go was up or be completely dysfunctional. I share what worked for me but it took me years of just looking at these books and workbooks before actually opening them. I started small and once I realised that I felt better, it became self-perpetuating.
Good morning Cxc
You’re at a crossroads here. Too many things in your mind at the moment: LO, the play , SO.
Summers gives you a few good questions for you to ponder about before taking a decision. It seems you’re emotionally loaded and have little time until the audition. Only you know how emotionally strong you can be if you took the part in the play. Any past experiences you can compare to?
I’m also ambivalent because I like Speedwagons input. Darn limerence!
It seems LO is over you already since he’s flirty with another girl… I really don’t like that. It seems LO doesn’t consider hurting your feelings at all. Keep that in mind when taking your decision. It’s going to hurt a great deal seeing him flirting around with other woman and you taking in the suffering …
“Courage is the thing I think I need here. What kind of courage is another question.”
You need ALL your courage, all your bravery if you opt for taking the part in the play. Only you know that.
“Sometimes courage means holding on. Sometimes courage means letting go.”
That doesn’t help much, isn’t it?
“You know when it is the right thing when everything comes easily, there’s no effort in it.”
And I will add: when you feel at peace with your mind after taking a decision.
Good luck and God bless.
As Springsteen put it:
“You lay down your money and you play your part.” – “Hungry Heart” (1980)
https://youtu.be/083jlcvCHDI
There may not be a right answer and there may not be a wrong one.
Which one do you think will contribute the most to your happiness? If neither, which one detracts the least from your happiness?
All the while taking into account the potential collateral damages.
Nobody said that doing the right thing is easy. Especially, when you don’t know what the right thing is.
C4C-
Hello. First off, I am so sorry for your pain. You are in a very tricky position, and I feel how unfair it would be if I had to pass on something I love to avoid a LO.
It looks like you have a lot of great advice and questions to think about from other posters.
I certainly don’t know what the right steps for you are- but I did notice one thing about your post that I wanted to comment on.
“ It’s a play and a part I’ve always wanted to do and I know there is no way I will ever have the chance to do again. ”
When I read that, I thought about how heightened ALL feelings become during limerence. Like, I remember feeling like I might literally die if I did not text my LO back. The whole world felt heightened. Maybe you have felt this way as well?
It makes me think that your desire to do this play may also be heightened by limerence. Not that you haven’t always wanted to do the play. I am sure that is true. However, if you choose to sit this one out would it be as heartbreaking if you were not having a LE?
I say this because you never know where life will take you or what is around the corner. I know you said you could never have the opportunity to be in this play again. I can imagine that could be true- but there may be an even better opportunity around to come. I am sure regardless of this particular play, you will act again!
In my life, some of the things I have wanted the most have turned out to be nightmares- and vis versa.
May I ask you- what will you gain from being in this particular play at this particular moment in your life. Will it give you happiness, fulfillment or growth that no other play could give you? It would be a lose to not do the play- but could you live with that? What would you gain or loose by acting/not acting in the play?
Again, only you will know what the right decision is- but I think it would be a good thing to consider that limerence can make it challenging to make the best decision. At least, that is the case for many people.
Good luck. I imagine people on this site will support you regardless what you end up doing, so you shouldn’t be afraid of posting.
Lots of good advice from Summer here, C4C. I know you’re in a real bind here, because purposeful living for you would include acting in this play, which would likely bring you into further contact with LO. But it really is worth thinking very carefully about just how self-actualising being in this play, with this likely cast, will be and how much is the limerence talking.
Speedwagon also makes a good point: really zoom in on LO being flirty with others. Not to devalue yourself, but to see that his affections are apparently readily transferable. This doesn’t seem like someone to get attached to. Use every piece of evidence you can that LO would not be a good addition to your life. I know (believe me I know!) how difficult it can be to see flaws in our LOs but you have to try. See the latest blog post on taking control and focus on little steps while you build courage. All the very best.
(First of all, my English is not very good, my apologies for that.)
Very good advice from Summer!
Before I read it I wanted to leave another point of view, but now I‘m not so sure.
I‘ll still write it.
I just thought, if you decide to not audition for the play, that it only makes sense if you really decide to let the whole LE go.
And not sit at home, imagining LO kissing another actress, chatting up that young woman etc, and additionally feeling bad about yourself because you let the LE take away from you something you love to do. Sometimes it’s worse to not see LO if you don’t have the right mindset- he grows bigger and more perfect/desirable in your mind, and in the next production everything will start again.
Could be better to be there to see him flirting with other women and beimg careless with you- it hurts but maybe he loses some of his attraction by observing him being shallow. Also, you wouldn’t have given up on your acting because of him.
But of course this also only works with the right mindset/strength, and only you know how much you can bear.
Hi everyone, sorry for the lack of replies before now. Yesterday was A VERY BAD DAY.
I don’t want all of the posts in the list to change to ones with my comments so I’m going to amalgamate:
Thank you all so much for your help, support, and lack of judgement. It means a lot to have a place I can say absolutely everything I’m feeling. Even just getting it out helps I suppose.
Call me Cordelia – thank you (it’s a badly sprained ankle btw, so not too far off!). Loving myself is a big part of this I think. I despise the part of myself that loses control when I fall into limerence, that takes risks with other peoples’ lives and treats my SO without respect. I have a bit of body dysmorphia going on too, which I think doesn’t help with the self-love/self-respect. I am full of admiration for you and the hard work you’ve put in to get to the position you’re in now. At the moment that feels like Mount Everest to climb for me, but maybe I can start to carve out the first few steps.
Speedwagon – thank you; I’m sorry you’re hurting so much. As I’ve missed a couple of days I’m not sure which post you emotion-dumped in but I’d like to give you a supportive hug. “Can I ask a couple questions? Are you a shoe-in for the part? Is there a chance you don’t get it, and powers out of your control make the decision for you?” That’s a tricky one. I don’t know who else is auditioning and if my LO gets his part I’m kind of a perfect match for him in look. And we have great chemistry, oh surprise surprise. Things would be easier for me if ‘fate’ made the decision for me – or a younger woman auditioned (I am waaaaay too old for the part but there aren’t many younger women and I can do the part really well).
I don’t see him outside rehearsals and social events for the group. I try to limit any whatsapp contact and so does he. Yes, the part would involve kissing him again (he is usually the leading man and as I said, we fit together well).
Adam – thank you for your thoughtful post. “And then you might try to vilify your current relationship. “Well if he/she didn’t do X than maybe I wouldn’t feel this way! Maybe if he/she WOULD do X than maybe I wouldn’t feel this way!” Which is the road your limerence wants you to take to satisfy itself with the high that LO gives and the thoughts that LO would fix all your relationship problems. It’s an ugly road to take.” That is very perceptive – I have been doing that. I also crave physical touch (but I’m quite picky about who) and for me too, it gets confused with romantic/physical attraction. I always find it so weird how I am so critical of my looks, personality and morality yet always assume someone fancies me if they show me any attention!
I don’t know how much my SO actually trusts me. I think he would just rather not think about it. I hate putting him in that position. I hate myself for that. And I don’t know if my LO’s wife trusts me either, though she clearly trusts him as he is always being physically affectionate with other women and often has to kiss them onstage.
MJ – hello my friend. “I absolutely have no courage because if I did, I wouldn’t be a year into my LE without much worth holding on to.” – you do have courage; you get up every day, you work, you look after your dad, you keep going even through all the pain.
“For a guy, that is so much easier for us to separate the physical from the emotional. That is why you probably notice him keeping himself calm after the fact, because he is not as emotionally invested in you as you are in him. And that hurts you because you want so much more. Guys are wired differently.”. I don’t know if that’s always the case but yes, it does seem to be that men are able to turn off their feelings a bit more easily. Or maybe they’re just better at hiding them! I know at the beginning he was very emotional about his feelings for me; it wasn’t just physical, it was really upsetting him. But then he did seem to switch it to just a physical attraction, and now nothing. Well, I don’t even know what as he’s doing such a good job!
I don’t think your LO will realise your motives are more than just sexual until you speak to her and build up some sort of relationship that’s not just about looking and approaching. But I don’t know how you do that if she’s avoiding you. I’ll see you over at the other blog – I need that cake!
Nisor – thank you, wise words as always. I think he does consider my feelings but it doesn’t occur to him that his behaviour could cause anyone pain because he only ever gets positive feedback on it and his wife never seems to remark on it. Although I don’t know of course. I’ve always used the idea of ‘make the decision and see how it feels’ but this time it’s been really, really hard. Either decision hurts and is scary.
LE – I wish I could pinpoint the issue as easily as you do; I’m in awe! There may not be a right answer and there may not be a wrong one.
“Which one do you think will contribute the most to your happiness? If neither, which one detracts the least from your happiness? All the while taking into account the potential collateral damages. Nobody said that doing the right thing is easy. Especially, when you don’t know what the right thing is.”
I think if I didn’t do the play I’d sit at home and regret it, especially if my SO got a part. I mean, obviously as I said above, I don’t even know if I’ll get it! But at least if I went for it then even if I didn’t get it I wouldn’t have that regret on top of everything else.
Summer, thank you for your compassion. You are absolutely right, that this has become THE BIGGEST DECISION IN THE WORLD because of limerence. If it wasn’t for my LO it would be so easy; I’d do the play, no question. Ooh, I just thought, what if I got in and he didn’t haha! That would be ideal in a way. But that’ll never happen; he’s their main actor.
I will definitely do more plays, that’s not an issue. I’m find it impossible to separate out my desire to do this play, the terrible FOMO I get at the best of times, and my feelings for LO. I feel as if all I can do is go with what will give me the least pain at the moment. I’ve slept more the last couple of days so feel a little clearer in the head.
TP – thank you. “Use every piece of evidence you can that LO would not be a good addition to your life. I know (believe me I know!) how difficult it can be to see flaws in our LOs but you have to try.” – I keep trying to do that but then he says something that shows how compatible we actually are! But I know he can’t be in my life in that way because he wants to continue in his marriage. I will try to keep spotting flaws though!
Mila – your English is excellent! I’m glad you decided to post this because it’s something I hadn’t considered. I generally find that being away from him helps but yes, when we see each other again it’s exactly back to the way it was. He’s said that too – back when he was telling me how he was feeling. Goodness know now, but really that’s not the point is it – how he’s feeling. It’s about me, my feelings and how I can work with my emotional responses and start to pull myself out.
Anyway, this has to be the longest post in the world. I have made a decision and I’ll post separately about that.
So .. further to my last post and if anyone can bear any more from me (!), I’ve decided to audition. I have had a couple of nights of actually sleeping and feel more able to make a decision. I may not get it but at least I’ll know I gave it a go and if I don’t get it I’ll be gutted but won’t have regrets. And if I do get it and he does too I will make myself a list of small steps to achieve and work on myself away from rehearsals. It’s a risk and maybe there is still an element of storytelling and self-justification, but I’m going to try. I’m sorry if I’m disappointing anyone. I don’t know if it’s the easiest or hardest option but I suppose I’ll find out.
C for Cat,
You got this Girl.. You’ll be great!!
I’m happy for you. If however something goes wrong, I’ll be here. As well as anybody else willing to help.
Only you know what’s right for you and what you can handle ☺️
OK, I’ll say ‘merde’ instead! Hope the ankle heals quickly!
CxC,
Alright! There goes my girl! Making a decision is better than the confusion of not making one at all. Now get all your energy and courage to do the greatest performance in your life, concentrate on that and not Lo. You got this! We will be here to support you no matter what.
Lots of ❤️ coming your way.
Brave decision! Just stay open-eyed and open minded, try to look at him not with limerent eyes but in a neutral way, and it will be possible to learn a lot about this whole LE, illusions, story telling etc…
Good luck!!
I didn’t get it.
💔
How are you doing?
Did he get the other part?
Hi Cfor Cat
Your short message speaks volumes…
Do you feel devastated, distraught? You tried so hard and the circumstances were so difficult for you. Take heart, when a door closes another one opens, a much better one for you.
“My heart May be broken but my vision is clear.” Keep an open mind. Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.
Keep us posted. We care for you!
Blessings
Sorry to hear that, maybe it’s because you already had the big part in the last production?
But maybe fate just had a hand in it, maybe it’s for the best? Did your SO get a part?
Thanks Adam, Mila, Nisor, Call Me Cordelia. Yes, my LO got the part of course; he always does. A younger woman new to the group got ‘my’ part. The girl LO flirts with got her part and my SO got a small part. I am very, very sad, was utterly distraught yesterday. I’m going to post an update on the Transferring Limerence thread.
I saw this pin on pinterest and it seemed appropriate for me and my attitude towards limerence. If I can’t be angry at LO (and I don’t think I ever can) than I will be angry at limerence. This is what you did to me limerence!!
“I used to care about you, until I realized how pathetic I was to be crying over someone who simply didn’t care. You hurt me, you made me feel like I was worthless, stupid and unimportant. I let you get to me, in fact I let you control me, but I’m finally moving on. Although you did teach me one thing to never hold on to someone who isn’t holding on to you. As for me, I know better, as for you, you lost a person who actually cared.”
All that and my “still haven’t moved on” a$$ is sitting here trying to be angry about the whole situation so I can move on while listening to ….. I never do learn.
Just When I Needed You Most — Randy VanWarmer
https://youtu.be/1u06A-77TN4
“never hold on to someone who isn’t holding on to you”. This. Just this.
Cat I read your post about you telling your husband about your limerence. I too told my wife about limerence. I didn’t find this place till six months after LO left the job and moved on. But my wife knew something was up. Something wasn’t right with me when LO was present and after she left. So pretty much all we now had was a label for my behavior. She didn’t leave me, or kick me out. We still slept in the same bed together the night that I told her.
If you haven’t read this, it has helped me. The most important sentence in that whole article I had the hardest time with. Because it took the “fixing” myself out of my hands and put it in my wife’s.
“You need to decide how patient you are willing to be, how motivated your SO is to try to overcome their infatuation and focus their attention on your relationship, and how solid your relationship was before the limerent episode invaded.”
https://livingwithlimerence.com/help-my-partner-is-limerent-for-someone-else/
Yes you both need to heal. But if the limernece has not completely passed then you are still in an altered state of mind. That’s why you have to say what you need to say to your spouse and then give them their time to heal and lead you both to where you can be one again.
While I have mostly passed through it, I still ruminate. I am stubborn about letting go of songs especially. I spend a lot of time at work alone so I play music often so I don’t go stir crazy. And a lot of those songs belong to LO. 8 months she has known about my limerence and 13 months since LO left and I don’t think we are still all the way there yet. I am trying to give her time to decide, as I am not sure she has. I am not even sure if she really forgives me in her heart. And I know she will never forget.
I wanted to share one more of Dr. L’s posts as your comment about him saying “he feel for you” yet he seems to be a habitual flirter despite being married reminded me of this post. It was one of the first few articles I read before I started commenting on current blog posts. As the limerent we don’t always know LO’s intentions in the back and forth limerents and their LO’s do. They may have their own selfish motives for “falling for you”. It’s hard I know. I run away in my head from the thought that LO liked the attention I gave her and did things to keep it going. I can not think of her being that kind of woman. But I don’t know that. And if I took a chance with LO thinking there was something bigger there than there was, well I could have ended up like this woman …..
https://livingwithlimerence.com/the-worst-case-of-limerence-ive-ever-seen/
Thanks Adam. I am still working my way through all the blog posts; there are so many and so much good advice and helpful comments – but I hadn’t read that one yet. Still haven’t got through all the comments but I am really trying to give SO the space to process all of this – it’s one thing to know I have ‘a crush’ as he put it, but another to have it confirmed and see just how much it’s hurting me. That can’t be easy for him.
I need to keep in mind that I can’t talk to him about it in the way I talk to the close friend who knows all about the situation; that wouldn’t be at all fair on him. Who wants to keep being reminded that your SO longs for another man?
“I run away in my head from the thought that LO liked the attention I gave her and did things to keep it going. I can not think of her being that kind of woman.” – I’m the same, I don’t want to think it wasn’t real, that he is like that with everyone. He told me it was the first time he’d been in this situation, and I suspect he uses flirting to raise his self-esteem, just as I and many people do. It does really hurt that he didn’t think about how it would affect me. I’m trying to stick to facts rather than speculation but speculation is running rampant in my head at the moment and it’s hard work.
Great song!
One of the best one-hit-wonders ever!
I’ve come back to this post from the Coffeehouse: Transferring Limerence post because it feels more apt.
As I said, I disclosed to SO, something I thought I’d never be able to do due to fear of what would happen and that I’d hurt SO so much, but I got to such a horrific low point yesterday that I couldn’t keep it in any more. But do you know what? I didn’t actually need to in the end. I started off by telling him about limerence, which he’d never heard of. It felt as if I had this big set of scales and just a few words would tip the balance into things I couldn’t take back. It was scary but I couldn’t stop.
But as soon as I said limerence was an addiction to a person, he got it straight away and said ‘do you mean [my first LO in this relationship, a couple of years ago]?’. He’d known all along; not exactly what had happened between us but that I had a crush (as he put it) on this man. Then when I said I was in another one now he once again knew exactly who I was talking about [current LO]. I couldn’t believe it. He said he knows me so well that he picked up on my feelings towards these men. He said he felt OK about it because he has always known that’s what I’m like (we were good friends before we got together and I shared everything about my previous LO experiences and infidelities), and that if he’d been worried it would go too far and threatened our relationship he’d have said something. That he trusted me to stop before it got there. He was calm, kind and understanding.
I was in bits by this point. I felt I didn’t deserve it to be so easy for me. He said we need to find a therapist (which we’ve been discussing for a while) to help me through this and other issues, to move forward out of my self-destructive patterns of behaviour, and that hopefully now he can help me not fall into such a horrible place again. I’m not sure how I got so lucky but even in the depths of my terrible sadness I feel there might be a way forward now.
The feelings I have for LO are still there of course, though his behaviour has had an impact, and I still want him terribly, and it hurts so much, but I hope that with enforced-mostly-NC the feelings will fade and I can start to get help and my SO and I can fight this together. I’m exhausted, sad, empty and still checking my WhatsApp far too often, but one day at a time I suppose.
Thanks for putting up with me for the last couple of weeks as I go through this. It’s made things more bearable to keep reading the blog posts and comments, and to get the support and advice from you all.
I don’t know where I’ll go from here but maybe at last, after a lifetime of destructive and painful LEs starting at age 14 up to my current one at age 50, there is some hope that I can start to change the pattern.
Thank you Dr L for this blog and for creating this space where we can try to find a way through.
Hi C,
New here and just read through this. I am so pleased that your SO was so understanding. It seems that many of us have SOs who are so in tune with us, that even when we think we’re hiding something – they see right through it without our knowing. Best of luck with your couples therapy. I think that’s a great step to take together <3
C4Cat
I think it did take some courage to be honest with your SO. You could have lost him as well so it was a risk. I’ve said it many times – I’m all for honesty. If we’re in tune with ourselves, we know when our partners are struggling and sensing a lie causes other problems to manifest. I hope this brings you and your SO together with this newfound honesty and vulnerability (that he knew about anyway!)
I read a fabulous quote from Jung earlier. It was something along the lines of ‘integrated people don’t have no guilt or shame or fear. They just no longer judge themselves for those feelings’.
Everyone is toxic sometimes.
I really hope you can fall into your Self, embrace who that is, and find some peace.
Hi Cat for cat
I’m so sorry you’re going through these terrible trials and suffering now. You feel wounded and nothing seems to help the hurt. Understood. You need to rest a lot and cry a river to let your feelings run free …
Your SO is a noble person, very understanding , that takes courage from him to be nice to you in spite of…and courage from you to be able to disclose. I admire you. Now both of you stand side by side to help each other to overcome the difficulties.You have someone who cares for you to lean on. That’s a plus! Be grateful for that .
I’ll
refer you to Dr L post of July 15, 23, “. HOW LIMERENCE CAN LEAD TO RENEWAL”
He speaks on Humility:
“ Nevertheless, the basic truth of RENEWALis inescapable: if you want your life to change for the better, you will have to change. That means letting go of pride, and accepting the need for personal transformation.”
You already did that! You are on your way to renewal!!!
Quote for you:
“Never let the sadness of your past and the fear of your future ruin the happiness of your present.”
Your present right now is your SO. Work in the relationship, do things together, go places, do things you never did before. Forget the stage for awhile. Renew yourself by doing things you like and didn’t have the time to do before.
God has plans to rescue you from your current pain and suffering-because men and science cannot deal with the things of the soul because it’s spiritual. May He give you revelation and wisdom to go ahead and be what you really want to be: joyful and at peace with yourself.
Lots of understanding and love coming your way.
C4C: first, I am so sorry you didn’t get the part you wanted in the play. I know you wanted it for many reasons, and I can imagine the “rejection” stings. I can’t help feel like it is a blessing in disguise, though. It will give you distance from LO. And, painful as it will be to witness, you even will get to witness him starring with the new girl. Second, I can’t tell you how impressed I am with your decision to disclose to your SO about what has been going on. That took enormous courage and decisiveness (see the new blog post today) and has put you on the right path. Huge kudos to you. Third, let me express my admiration for your SO. His understanding in the face of difficult information (to put it mildly) and his commitment to help you, and the relationship, tells me you are an incredibly lucky woman to have found him. What a bloke. Sending all good wishes as you take the steps down this new path.
Thanks Jo, Call me Cordelia, Nisor and TP. I am very lucky to have someone who knows me so well and wants to help me to make our relationship as good as we can.
At the moment I can’t bear the thought of LO spending time with the girl he flirts with, and with this new one. I feel as if I need to be there to remind him I exist. But that’s stupid because if he needs to see me to remember he had feelings for me, then he doesn’t have feelings for me, and in any case, I need to stop wanting him to have feelings for me.
I won’t see him now for a few months. I think about him even more since I disclosed to SO, which is so painful and so frustrating. I think it’s because the certainty I previously had, that we both felt the same but were going to work hard to keep our distance and not risk our relationships, has now dissolved into uncertainty of ‘did he ever feel anything? Is he like that with everyone? Does he even think about me?’ which is pointless but I can’t help it. And I just want to reach out and get clarification, and tell him how he hurt me. But again, pointless and will make things even worse.
So I’m just hanging on, feeling desperately sad but able to function a bit more normally than a few days ago, doing more things with SO and trying to fake it until I make it. And find a therapist.
C for Cat,
Hello Friend. I thought about going over to the Coffeehouse to meet you, but you’re probably not in the mood. I totally understand. I brought you tea anyway.
I should apologize for not getting back to you sooner about this post. Last week was a little crazy as I was on a different shift at work for the whole week, and now my Father is back in the hospital. Just been trying to hold everything down without losing my mind.
I was glad to read your SO has been so understanding about your LE. Consider that a blessing. That’s worth it’s weight in gold, that you have someone to actually be available to you there live and in- person. Especially since you are going through some hurt still over LO.
It’s never easy when they don’t act as we would like them to. I can’t even begin to count how many times I thought I might get somewhere on to the 2nd level with LO, and yet she kept me on the ground floor. Disappointing to say the least.
From what I can tell by how you describe LO, he sounds like he enjoys the company of Women in general. While it might be true, you two had chemistry, it seems like he likes to be friendly to all the ladies. Or maybe he’s just good at charm and likes the attention. It’s probably not important since you’re both unavailable, but I know it still hurts. I would get kinda get jealous when I would see how LO interacted with other guys in the office. But looking at her, I know why that was. I’m sure I wasn’t the only one interested.
I’ll go back to what I mentioned to you in my last post, that he may like you somewhat, but not to the level you want or expected. He’s just not as emotionally invested. It’s evident by how you see his behavior with the other ladies in the cast. You’re probably better off without him. But I know it still hurts. Believe me, I know that low feeling, down in your gut, that can make you so anxious and sad. I get that way when I start missing the hell out of LO. And that’s also when I start crying again. It’s like a madness I live with.
I thought I would have had a terrible week being on night shift and not seeing LO. But it was NC completely, and it wasn’t all that terrible. By Wednesday, I started feeling better actually. This week coming up will probably be different though, going back to my normal schedule again and I plan to see LO sometime, hopefully.
The less you see LO, the easier it will probably get for you. In the meantime, work through your hurt with that understanding SO of yours. Perhaps that’s the beginning of something better to come. Good luck with your therapy too. I hope that is helpful for your sanity..
Please have a great day when you get this because you deserve it.
Let’s meet again, ok? I would like that.
Toodles.
Your Friend,
MJ 😉
Did LO react to you not getting the part? Did he write to you or tell you that he wished you would get it? If he had the same feelings as you have about you not acting alongside him, wouldn’t he have communicated them in some way?
I bet he didn’t.
My guess is, he liked/likes you well enough, and had feelings of some sort, but nothing comparing to the depth of your limerence, nothing compared to what your SO gives you, and certainly nothing worth suffering for like you suffer now.
Thanks MJ, sorry, I hadn’t seen this. Thanks for the tea. I’m sorry to hear about your father. I hope you’re managing to take some time for yourself and not running yourself into the ground with making sure he’s OK, plus work. Have you managed to do any of the things LostInSpace suggested?
I know I’m extremely lucky with my SO. And yes, LO is charming and flirtatious with everyone. I know I’m better off where I am. I’m just a person who likes things black and white unfortunately, and I’m currently trying to live with uncertainty, as Dr L said in his recent post. To convince myself I won’t know what his thoughts or feelings are, and that it doesn’t really matter; I just need to accept the uncertainty and make my own closure. Still feels rubbish though.
It’s interesting that a week of not seeing LO has helped you. Night shifts must be awful though, I couldn’t cope with those. I think if you could go completely NC with LO it would help you… eventually. I’m at one week NC now, and it has been such a long week. But I just keep trying to tell myself it will get better. I will have to see him again though, so I need to work on myself before then so it doesn’t all come crashing back. That’s the problem with not being able to go completely NC, for you too – you just start to feel better then you see them again :-(. In a way it’s worse than seeing them all the time.
Take care of yourself and thanks for the tea. I bought you a blueberry muffin 🙂
Hi Mila, thanks for your response. Yes, he messaged me that evening to say he was sorry ‘things didn’t go to plan for me’. Then he asked if my SO was pleased with his part. That was it. I sent a brief reply saying he was pleased and I was gutted. That’s been it, nothing at all since.
I know it’s stupid and not worth all this suffering. Trouble is knowing it makes no difference to the feelings. Hey ho.
@C for Cat,
Thanks for the Blueberry Muffin. I love those. We have them in the snack tray at work and they are delicious.
I can’t remember what a lot of those suggestions were now from LiS, but at the time, I felt very little interest because it seemed like that emotionally I wasn’t going to fake doing any of those things if I knew going into them, I would have about zero interest. So many of the things I used to love to do, has all pretty much gone the way of the wind. It’s like LO came along and depressed me and now all thats left is open empty space. I don’t blame her or even resent her for it. I know I need to re-invent myself somehow. So that’s kinda the goal with therapy. I don’t have great expectations but mainly think perhaps I’ll be able to sort out some thoughts. I don’t know.
I also decided I think I’m going to transfer out the building I currently work in and go over to the main operation. It’s where I was at last week for night shift and it really wasn’t all that bad. What I realized, is that I really don’t like being in that building I work in now because LO is not there anymore. And all I do when I’m there is ruminate and get sad, remembering all the places I would see her and even what happened in those places. I’ve even gone looking for her in some of those old places, hoping to see her again and thats so freaking sad and pathetic isn’t it? I’ve decided I might just get away from it all because it isn’t helping me. LO is better off where she’s at, over in her nice newer building and I’m happy for her because she has a Manager she likes. Its not like I’ll have a hard time finding her if I want to see her. I figure LC or NC might be helpful at this point for me. If she chooses to come by the main operation, I’ll be happy to see her, but I don’t think that will be very often. Unless of course her Manager moves again, which can always happen.
So right now it’s baby steps. I’d still like her and I to work out somehow. Even if it’s only friends. I’ll take anything at this point, as long as she won’t hate me for trying.
Hope you are doing ok and working it out with SO. Thanks again for the muffin. It was yummy..
Your friend,
MJ 😉
I haven’t commented in a while. Over 2 months no contact except for Facebook and I haven’t been interacting with him. Overall better but today is rough. My dad is very ill with organ failure and my mom is already gone.
Does this ever really go away? I don’t really think it’s about LO. I read somewhere that our brain has convinced us limerants that we have already pair bonded with LO. The chemicals went haywire and that’s why it’s so hard to let go and why we expect so much of them. Today I’m listening to sappy music. I’m also scared I won’t talk to him again. It hurts so bad. So I saw this song on other forums and to me it describes my limerance.
This one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIhd5Yc5TCY.
Overjoyed by Stevie Wonder where he’s trying to convince someone to love them.
Then this one: Living Inside Myself by Gino Vannelli. https://youtu.be/kV25xS6ZXoU
I need courage to not reach out again and sit with pain. It will pass. It’s just my brain chemicals it’s not who he is. I’m going to get angry at limerance like Adam mentioned. Thanks for listening. Great post!
Beth
I had to listen to Living Inside Myself before I remembered it. Great song. The Stevie Wonder song I knew from the title, also a great song.
Yeah we can be angry together at limerence. Like the infamous line from The Incredible Hulk TV show David Banner (Bill Bixby) says “Don’t make me angry. You wouldn’t like me when I’m angry. We can do this Beth!
I am sorry to hear of the loss of your mother and your father’s state of health. My mother lost her mother at a very young age. And my wife lost her mother at a very young age. My folks are getting to the age where I start to worry. They are in good health now but you never know. I hope for the best for you and yours Beth.
Beth
I’ve been heavily listening to Living Inside Myself since you posted it. It’s a song I’ve know for many years but only now can relate to the words. I am up early and listening to music while I play video games and this came up on my playlist and I thought I’d post it. Because like the songs you posted that I can relate to, I’m sure you can relate to this one.
Only Love Can Hurt Like This — Paloma Faith
https://youtu.be/LIcMfce8xks
Yes that’s a good one, Adam! Very relatable words. I find the music helps to get the grief out. Yes I find Living Inside Myself relatable. When LO first rejected me and was so harsh, it was awful and music helped but I have to be careful because certain songs can pull me back in if I’m not careful. That’s what happened the other day. Finally feeling better today. I had to force myself to not ruminate about LO. Today I replayed some of the negative things that happened to break the pedestal he was on. That helped too.
Here are a few other songs that helped:
Never Gonna Fall in Love Again
https://youtu.be/lK_tErs-d2Y
I substitute limerence for love
https://youtu.be/Zc8vH1lQ8N8
I’m Through With Love
Eric Carmen and again I think if the word Limerence instead of love
Photograph Ringo Starr
https://youtu.be/IhDKHo2wapM
Long, Long Time Linda Ronstadt
https://youtu.be/OADhKjNz8mI
Long Long Time is so sad. One line sums it up: “Living in the memory of a love that never was”
She also says there’s no one at my side. I think limerence is trying to fill some deep, pervasive loneliness at least for me that started in childhood. That feeling of never quite fitting in. I’m trying to focus on my SO and also figure out how to build connections. Also trying to strengthen my walk with God. We will beat this!
I love “Photograph!”
That song was all over the radio when my HS girlfriend (the great kisser) and I broke up the first time. I think of her every time I hear it.
LO #2 owns this one:
“Photographs and Memories” – Jim Croce (1972)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR5EYBZw8d4
Thanks Beth and Adam for sharing.
“Does this every really go away?”.
Exactly, this is what I feel too. Last couple of days have been quite low in terms of mood. Really getting tired of this, and want it to end, just don’t know how. Some days, I am able to manage my emotions better, other days, oh well.
Adam, also not to overwhelm you but here are songs that give me strength.
Friend of a Wounded Heart Wayne Watson: https://youtu.be/N-TLoXBM9ao
Be Still Steven Curtis Chapman
https://youtu.be/mejGZ21N9CE
Bob Fitts He is Lovely
https://youtu.be/KHXAlLqULPQ
Beth
Music is my bane when it comes to getting over limerence. I am stubborn and drunk and listen to music I know won’t make things better. (I am listening to the songs you posted while writing this.) Eric Carmen makes me think of “All By Myself”.
” When LO first rejected me and was so harsh, it was awful and music helped but I have to be careful because certain songs can pull me back in if I’m not careful.”
I remember when I first heard that LO was seeing a man. She was single when I met her. I got grief from my co-workers that I was jealous because they all knew I had a “crush” on her. But in reality I was surprised that I didn’t feel completely rejected. Granted I was envious of the attention she gave him instead of me previously but I was still happy for her because he seemed to be a good man to LO and her daughters. But there was the lingering feeling that I was just a useless old man as LO’s gentleman friend was even younger than her much less much younger than me.
I had to put in Ringo Star for youtube to find the right song from apparently Ed Sheeran and Nickleback. I have to search them on my phone rather than use your links since I am listening on my phone and posting on my PC.
Limerence does indeed fill something that is needed and not being fulfilled. It reminds me of two songs (I will post them at the end) of a male singer that laments to the “other woman” that he wants her to help him tell his SO about the two of them. The line that gets me is “everything seems so right whenever I am with you” speaking of the other woman. Than in another song a woman is confronting her SO about her love for another man. She tries to put it to him gently. Despite saying that this other man “there’s just this empty place that only he can fill” yet in the next verse she begs him to stay despite this. It is this opposing dynamic that helps me understand me, the limerent, and my wife the one on the receiving end. How would I handle her possible limernece?
“Today I replayed some of the negative things that happened to break the pedestal he was on.”
That is very difficult for me. LO was a very independent, driven, hard working single mother that amazed me in her ability to take on what life threw at her, including a pos ex that …. well let’s just say child custody laws was why I kept out of it otherwise I’d …. Either way as a potential partner she was quite the catch to any man.
In the end, myself single or not, he was better for her and her daughters. He could provide what I couldn’t. No man deserves her but she chose one. And God forbid he ever puts her in the position that I have to remind him of that because he won’t like me for it. (I like the “Be Still” song) LO and her daughters are important to me, as much as my wife and our sons.
“He Is Lovely” reminds me of Miss Lovisa. I miss her so much. She decided to leave here and I would so love to hear her loving and caring words. I am not religious but I was raised in a religious home. Miss Lovisa could always carry the loving words of the Bible to all. With no judgement and no condemnation. Just love and support the way Jesus was with everyone. I miss her so much. I’m sorry. That song just triggered memories of her.
Anyway the two songs I spoke of earlier….
How Can I Tell Her — Lobo
https://youtu.be/pFZ3vr4Eh6A
Torn Between Two Lovers — Mary MacGregor
https://youtu.be/LUfRWJjuQFk
And this song that came into my youtube suggestions some time ago…. I hate and I love this song. I hate that it is true and I love that it is true.
Who Am I To Stand In Your Way — Chester See
https://youtu.be/P1-VaE7uGJg
So sorry if I posted anything that triggered you. Even though I still struggle at times I am doing much better 5 years later. I think my parent’s failing health was a trigger the other day. No comfort is found thinking of LO anymore just pain and guilt.
I do better when I listen to music that isn’t related to romance or love. It is useful to get grief out but it feels like it gave me an unrealistic view of love and marriage.
I believe you are onto something to get mad at limerence. Also to focus on SO feels and not wanting to hurt them. This is something I never want to go through again. It also means knowing that what was past is past but today we choose our SO. My counselor told me every time I want to think of LO or reach out to do something to invest in my spouse or my life. I’m finding that really helps. We can do this!
That’s a good plan, Beth. I’ll try that too.
Thanks Beth and Adam for sharing.
“Does this every really go away?”.
Exactly, this is what I feel too. Last couple of days have been quite low in terms of mood. Really getting tired of this, and want it to end, just don’t know how. Some days, I am able to manage my emotions better, other days, oh well.
I feel the same, Beth. I just want to feel better but everything is so dark at the moment. Every time I switch my phone on I have a stupid leap of hope of seeing a message, just to show it wasn’t all nothing on his part but it’s been almost a week now and nothing. Every time he would understandably have a reason to message has passed now. So I just have to keep waking up every day and going to sleep every night I suppose.
So, what’s the point of this blog?
L.E. climbs the pulpit…
Getting past/over something doesn’t take courage. Both of those can happen as the result of circumstances outside of your control. In that case, you weren’t purposeful or noble or whatever, you were lucky. Or, time just did it’s thing. A lot of wounds heal on their own without intervention. It can happen. It’s great when it does. But, luck is entirely passive.
OVERCOMING obstacles/adversity, TRANSCENDING limerence, and ACHIEVING a purposeful life take hard work. You have an active role in them. Recognizing that things aren’t working for you and maybe it’s time to do something is hard. Where’s the line between deciding that something is worth fighting for and giving it another shot and “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” (Albert Einstein) When do you say, “Enough!”?
That take courage.
It can be really nice to think of your life as a grand opera or Greek tragedy. I did. I was good at it. A vivid imagination, a cursory knowledge of history, literature, music, and metaphysics can help with those. I got “As” in rationalization.
I got to the point where I realized that it wasn’t contributing to my happiness and had the potential to detract from my happiness and the happiness of the people around me. Between being happy and being unhappy, happy is better.
TBH, it didn’t take a lot of courage for me to take on this. Why? Because taking it on didn’t involve any real sacrifice on my part. For others, it might. Sacrifice for a purpose is noble, sacrifice for no purpose is suicide.
LO #2 had really pissed me off and gone beyond redemption. I had to declutter a very old closet to understand why. When I asked the therapist why it took so long for me to get around to it, the therapist said it was safe for me. Most of the people I would have to confront were long dead and the arc of my life was sufficiently established that dealing with things at that point wasn’t going to change it.
“He who hesitates is sometimes saved.” – James Thurber, 1945 “The Thurber Carnival,” ‘The Glass in the Field’.
At first, I thought I was turning my back on LO #4 when she reached out to me but from what she said, I was never a real part of her life and likely never would have been. We had no professional or social nexus so I wasn’t giving up anything there.
I was operating under ideal conditions.
Do you want to make your life better or don’t you? Easy to say, hard to do, but the question stands.
“You got to walk that lonesome valley. You got to walk it by yourself.
Oh nobody else can walk it for you. You got to walk it by yourself.”
– “The Reverend Mr. Black (1963) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y51VPrd5Js
End of sermon…
LE
I agree with all you say. Just not everybody is the same. Some have a very strong will, others don’t. As for me, I’m a fighter, don’t like to be down, I need to know I’m going some place where I’ll be happy. I have high self esteem , self respect and confidence that I’ll be ok , if I just take the first step forward I’m unstoppable. My motto is: I’m a slow walker but I never walk back. I don’t beg for love, if someone wants to love me fine, if not I’ll move forward with a goodby song in my lips. And yes, you have to cross that valley alone… you become a conqueror not a victim. Never be a victim!!! Always forward.
Have a great weekend.
I find this song oddly empowering:
“Man In Motion (St.Elmos Fire)” – John Parr (1984)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06TPn6mIBX8
I’ve never seen the movie but the reviews panned it.
1984 was the zenith of my time with LO #2.
LE
Fantastic song, good for all limerents. Very empowering indeed!
‘Oh that fire burning in me…”
(I’ve noticed that LO#2 is unforgettable to you…) Like my LO to me). Oh , oh ‘the shadow of your smile when you’re gone…’Frank Sinatra. Just memories, just memories and nothing more.
@Limerent Emeritus.
That was an interesting sermon, to say the least…
For me, the point of this blog is to understand the biological factors driving pair-bonding. Just idle curiosity I suppose. I may not be able to get in on the action myself, but I want to know what’s motivating everyone else on the planet to pass on their genes so successfully. 😁
Also, I want to know why other people make such a song and dance about romantic love. And whether that song and dance is ultimately justified. Again, also idle curiosity. Did the poets of old lie? Or did some of them speak truth?
I want to know the difference between love-love and erotic love, and whether love really plays a role in sexuality, or whether sexuality should be seen as separate from love. It seems to me that whatever is going on between men and women in terms of sexuality isn’t really love at all, but a power struggle, which the woman is ultimately destined to win. Woman is the dominant sex in the sexual/emotional spheres, contrary to centuries of religious tradition. (The most enlightened husbands have the good grace to let their wives win pretty early on in the game while pretending that they’re not letting her win. Happy wife, happy life). 😉
Last, I want to end the “compulsory” part of “compulsory longing”. I don’t have a problem with longing per se. I just don’t want the longing to be compulsory! The compulsory part of compulsory longing offends the part of my brain which says human beings are supposed to have free will.
“It can be really nice to think of your life as a grand opera or Greek tragedy. I did. I was good at it. A vivid imagination, a cursory knowledge of history, literature, music, and metaphysics can help with those. I got “As” in rationalization.”
Nothing wrong with having a vivid imagination, or a broad knowledge of human history and culture. However, I don’t think imagination and knowledge should be used for rationalization. I think imagination and knowledge should be used for insight and illumination, maybe also to empathise with the suffering of others.
Dr. David Perl says that limerence is tied to “parental rescue fantasies”. I think I wanted to save my father and I also wanted to save my mother. In other words, I wanted to save both parents, not just one or the other. And my motivation for saving my parents was so they could ride off into the sunset, or whatever, and have a happy relationship – a happy relationship not with me, but with each other.
In other words, I wanted my parents to have a happy marriage. I did not want to be my mother’s companion. I did not want to feel alienated from my father, or from the world of men in general. I wanted to secure access to my masculine soul.
The problem with parental rescue fantasy is success. What happens with success? What happens after one successfully rescues one’s parental stand-ins? Purposeful living, I suppose. I might even have to ask the horrible question: “What do I, Sammy, actually want out of life once my childhood idols no longer require saving? What might I aspire to be apart from the world’s biggest martyr?” 😆
The real work doesn’t start when you fail; the real work starts when you succeed.
My LO didn’t remind me of Mum or remind me of Dad. My LO reminded me of myself – a much more confident, capable, effective version of myself. 🤔
I don’t think I’ve really transcended limerence. I think I’ve slowly realised that life going on OUTSIDE my head might be marginally more interesting than life going on INSIDE my head, and maybe I should pay more attention to the external world. But I’ve always felt trapped by deep feelings of insecurity, etc. I’ve always felt as if the external world, and the people in it, probably don’t want to interact with me. Living inside my head was/is safer than risking rejection in the outside world.
Sammy,
“But I’ve always felt trapped by deep feelings of insecurity, etc. I’ve always felt as if the external world, and the people in it, probably don’t want to interact with me. Living inside my head was/is safer than risking rejection in the outside world.”
This story is for you!
“But I’ve always felt trapped by deep feelings of insecurity, etc. I’ve always felt as if the external world, and the people in it, probably don’t want to interact with me. Living inside my head was/is safer than risking rejection in the outside world.”
“After” – Guy de Maupassant (1905, published posthumously)
https://americanliterature.com/author/guy-de-maupassant/short-story/after
“I was right. I was not made for this world.”
When I was deep in the weeds with LO #4, I mentioned de Maupassant to her. She was unfamiliar with him. I sent her the link and said that if anyone would appreciate it, she would.
She never responded but now I think two people would appreciate it.
Sammy,
Sorry for the double post of your quote.
@LE
Thank you for the story “After”, I think I get it with my “soul” — whatever it is.
Due to both my parent’s busy work, I was put in a daycare when 50 days old; 2.5-4 yrs with paternal Granny 3000 miles away (had a great bonding with her), 4-6 yrs in a weekcare — home on Sundays. In that “prison”, petrified 🥶 once by waking up alone in the dead night, humiliated/punished by a shouting teacher in front of the whole class, ate pins with needles on the back (so to be taken to hospital to hopefully see Dr. Mom), escaped to home 3 times but sent back by iron-faced😡, Narc Mom (— the biggest source of my cPTSD), eye-witnessed other collective “traumas” 😱 … and endlessly stared at the white, wooden French door that would suddenly swing open and Father magically appear to pick me up….
Other single girls of neighbors were treated and acted like princesses.…❓
I think a dose of “self-pity” must have been somehow imprinted in my curious eyes, which often mysteriously drew tons of dogs, laidback or guarded, in streets or stores of two continents, to pull the leash towards me, wig their tails, skirt around or jump on me for a pet, puzzling their owners and myself….
Can dogs feel sorry for an urban lone-wolf?
Just realized:
I have not escaped that little limerent’s fancy ”prison”,
daydreaming a LO’s fatherly face
magically upon the weekcare’s French door
taking me out for lollipops.
LO picked me up and dropped me back
week in and day out
the Moon after Moon
leaving me in the agonizing limbo…
Yet, all along in the fantasies
I’ve grown tall enough just to
open the limerence door, walk out, and
bask in the glimmer under the naked sunlight.
@Limerent Emeritus.
Thank you for that fascinating quote. Never thought I’d have anything in common with a man as distinguished as Guy de Maupassant. That’s another author I’ll have to add to my list of literary notables I haven’t read but pretend I have! 😉
Actually, when I was about 20, I thought I was born in the wrong period of history. I had some quaint ideas about the Victorian era and thought the Victorian era would have suited me better than the late 20th century. I suppose that speaks volumes about how alienated I felt? But I think alienation is a common plaint among limerents… M. de Maupassant is a suitably Victorian choice anyway! 😜
@Limerent Emeritus.
Have just clicked on the link and read the story. Ah! Very nice! Now I can say I have actually read one little jewel by M. de Maupassant! No more fibbing to impress people at dinner parties I also haven’t attended. (Wasn’t invited. Maybe my feet smell bad?) 😉
I do like the melancholy mood of the story. However, at the age of 40, I can’t stay “immersed” in melancholy, no matter how beautifully it’s conjured up. I could stay immersed in melancholia in my teens and then I fell into actual depression. Now, when things get too heavy, some part of my brain always rebels and wants to crack jokes.
But, yes, beautiful story beautifully written. The boy character is self-pitiful, but not off-puttingly so. Thank you for sharing.
Actually, while we’re on the topic of alienated youth, Camille Paglia seems to think same-sex attraction develops in males when you’ve got a naturally timid fellow born into a family of jocks. At some point in his development, this timid fellow probably notices the (genuine) beauty of one or more of his bumptious male peers and idolatry sets in. But this idolatry, for want of a better term, is obviously stronger and longer-lasting than the idolatry that usually constitutes hero-worship. (Hero-worship seems to be quite a normal male thing).
It’s very hard for me to accept that the infatuations I’ve felt for male peers throughout my life isn’t actual love. But the evidence speaks for itself. I mean, love isn’t euphoria. Real love doesn’t give one a drug-like rush. It’s very hard to forget euphoria one you’ve tasted that sweet, sweet wine. It’s very hard to let go of objects believed to produce euphoria even if it’s just one’s own brain playing tricks. 😆
And yet I also recognise, as a lapsed Christian, as an intelligent man, as somebody who knows what real love is, real love would actually mean “letting go” or renouncing male crushes (usually bumptious jock types, strangely enough) so they can go off and have relationships with wives, which is what they inevitably do anyway. 😉
I wonder if some naturally diffident and socially isolated young men make an idol out of some attractive, charismatic, possibly-interested-and-yet-heartbreakingly-elusive female they encounter? And then this woman, or this type of woman, haunts the dreams/imagination of this second type of young man forever after? 🤔
@Snowphoenix,
I’m glad that you liked the story! Short stories are my favorite literary genre and de Maupassant is my favorite author. Vonnegut and Twain are close.
As for the dogs, maybe? Animals can be very perceptive. If a dog can sniff out cancer, what else can they sniff out?
I also liked your poem!
@Sammy,
“Actually, when I was about 20, I thought I was born in the wrong period of history.”
I’ve thought the same things about my mother. I think a lot of her happiness stemmed from unfulfillment. Also, she may have been the kind of person who needed her partner close and, as a travelling salesman, my father often wasn’t. He worked hard, was good at his job, and treated my mother lavishly. But, I’ve come to think that if she’d been born a few decades later, she might have had more opportunities available to her. I’m leaning more and more to the idea that they simply might not have been a good match. She’ll be dead 50 years next May so pure speculation on my part. My father will have been dead 45 years.
“I wonder if some naturally diffident and socially isolated young men make an idol out of some attractive, charismatic, possibly-interested-and-yet-heartbreakingly-elusive female they encounter? And then this woman, or this type of woman, haunts the dreams/imagination of this second type of young man forever after?”
Shari Schreiber had an opinion on that in a slightly different context. He contention was borderline women frequently do something like this because it provides them the illusion that they’re capable of a passionate, long-term, fulfilling relationship without ever putting themselves at risk by allowing themselves to be vulnerable in an actual relationship. She tends to write her articles from the perspective of borderline females and narcissistic male but she says that the roles can be reversed but they’re less common.
In “Attached: The New Science of Adult Attachment and How It Can Help You Find–and Keep–Love” by Amir Levine, Rachel Heller, the authors discuss the idea of the “Phantom Ex.” A PE is someone from the past that becomes the standard by which all subsequent candidates are compared to and fail against. If your a limerent, an LO could take the place of an actual Ex.
You probably don’t have to have a personality disorder to have this kind of behavior. You simply have to be risk averse. If the perceived pain is greater or more certain than the perceived reward, you avoid it.
Limerence can really screw up your ability to perform risk assessments.
Guy de Maupassant taught me some lessons in my early years of life. In The piece of string, how not to be miserable; in The Necklace, how not to be vain.
These lessons have stayed till today, sooooo
many years later!
@LE
I just figured out (a moment ago) why on earth I romanticize unrequited love!? — because of my biggest literary Hero (he still is)— Hunchback of Notre Dame, to be more precise, his Unrequited LOVE for Esmeralda.
When first read the story at 10 (no “carvel” concept), I cried and cried for his heart and death, and dreamt to have my own “Hunchback”s love” one day — it’s also an ideal parental love.
But later I found my heart still felt somewhat empty, when those smitten LOs demonstrated their affections with actions, gifts, or whatever. I didn’t understand why I was not gratified, even seemingly “having it all” in romance.
Until my passion for a LO sprung out within, I began to feel true joys of having/giving “love”, instead of just taking it from without. The passion generated by the glimmer is quite gratifying, if LE does not kick it.
@Limerent Emeritus.
All that you say is very interesting…
I think my father is a very kind-hearted man, but doesn’t have an obsessive bone in his body. So … non-limerent. Also very gentle and non-confrontational. I know now where he’s coming from, energy-wise. But, honestly, when I was going off the rails in my early twenties, or depressed in my late teens, I needed a stern authority figure to roar at me, sneer, bait, vex, thump chest, pull funny faces, throw metaphorical thunderbolts, argue me into submission.
I needed someone to challenge me, and be willing to see the fight through to the end. But it takes a certain kind of personality to do that. (My own loving-but-mock-grumpy personality maybe?) If I were a father, I think I’d have a lot of fun laying down the lay with my teenage children, both my sons and my daughters. I’d enjoy having debates with them. Perhaps it is just as well I am not a father? 😁
Ironically, despite being non-limerent, my father has odd views on romance. I think my father believes that if you love someone, you go all in. You don’t set conditions or boundaries. You just be a doormat. I’m like: “No, Dad. You don’t go all in for love unless the other person is actually a good person.” My father is artless. He fell in love with my mother. But he never did any assessments of my mother’s character. I think he thought that if you’re truly love someone, then assessment of that person’s character is irrelevant. You just accept the person you love warts and all, hope for the best.
My mother can be very, very intense and not very grounded. I’ve pressed her for intimacy (i.e. emotional intimacy) and she says she doesn’t want intimacy. It seems that all her relationships are just a big game. I don’t know if she’s borderline. But I think she seeks “attention” where other people seek “intimacy”. And she doesn’t get it when I try to explain to her that attention and intimacy aren’t the same thing. And I’d love to know my mother’s “real personality” – assuming she has one. I mean, what exactly is the big mystery? 😆
I think if game-playing and never-ending triangulation has been an intrinsic part of family dynamics, that sort of thing can spill over into adult romantic relationships. I suppose I have been guilty of game-playing, without even realising that that was what I was doing… 🤔
Today I want to heal more than I want to reach out or think about LO. Had a good therapy session and for me this is an addiction. It comes at me promising happiness and relief from emotions or loneliness. My therapist calls it this shiny and sparkly thing; my kryptonite.
The reality is that little lift I get is then replaced with shame, guilt, unfulfilled longing and discontent and more bondage. I want to be free. It’s going to take courage to cut those final ties that I cling to and to work on my own life.
It’s almost like a form of self punishment. I mean very little to this person. As someone who is married. I never should have let it get to this. My brain has tricked me into thinking that life would be perfect if he’s in it. Just not true. There is no knight coming to rescue me. Real love is hard and messy. The solution is I have to work on me or this will keep happening. I never want another LO.
My therapist also told me to stop listening to the triggering music. It feeds the addiction cycle and is like self loathing. She told me to listen to music that energizes me and makes me happy. Does anyone have any non limerent music or movies to share?
What kind of music do you like? I could post heaps but my taste is pretty different from most people here…
Some that get me motivated (like workout music) are
DJ Turn it up (Dimension)
Glue (Bicep)
Nothing Stopping me now (Vicetone)
Get Up (Stanton Warriors)
But they’re definitely not going to appeal to everyone!
Thanks!
Your therapist is right. I know it only makes it worse, but I still listen to limerent songs. Like the one I am listening to now.
“but I’m not the man your heart is missing
and that’s why you go away, I know”
See I’m not good at taking my own advice. I’ve not been able to replace these limerent songs (some I have known way before limerence) with other music for the most part. What I do at work when I am at my desk is watch original content videos on youtube on my phone will I work. Lately I have been on a kick with educational videos about outer space, other planets, UFOs and alien life. It keeps me distracted from my music.
At home I try to watch a movie or when I play a game, I use the sound on the game rather than put on headphones and listen to music while I play. It’s much easier for me to just deprive myself out of all music as much as I can rather than try to find some music that won’t make me think of LO.
I like the suggestion to watch videos. I enjoy YouTube.
Hi Beth 2
We are also spiritual beings and the souls need to be fed. Souls never stop growing, if you feed them good things they thrive and grow; but if bad things the soul withers and dies.
We need someone to hold on to, to have hope. The secular world is not enough, we also need the supernatural realm.
Here’s some soul lifting songs:
Don Moen, “ God will make a way”
Terry MacAlmon – greatest hits.
They both have many many songs which are heard all over the world.
Just a suggestion. Enjoy it.
Thanks for the reminder. I will never get out of this without God. I need to feed myself with good things.
If you have Apple Music, I recommend Ruby Radio.
Just do a search and it should come up. Not sure if it’s on Spotify or other outlets.
Thank you!
I can avoid romantic films and music but unfortunately my job entails listening to audiobooks – and they are mostly romances with lots of ‘falling in love’ and passionate sex.
Sigh.
I can’t avoid bring triggered. Even if I never put on LOs playlist again, I could hear any love song and think of her. If I wanted to listen to just Mozart piano concertos, I would think how much I would want to play them for LO.
No matter what I do, LO is everywhere. Cars that look like hers triggers me, the company nameplate, passing a dealership. Seeing shoes on the shelf at the store, or clothes that look like hers.
Blondes with hair like hers. A faint perfume on a Woman, long sculptured fingernails, passing a nail salon, pretty necklaces. I could go on and on but I think you get it.
This is the kind of stuff where I get doubtful therapy is going to pay off in the long run. I sometimes question why I need to pay someone to tell me what I really know already.
At least I think I do.
I do a word puzzle every day and yesterday’s had LO’s surname smack bang in the middle where I couldn’t not see it. I felt as if the universe was just laughing at me!
The same kinda thing happened to me when I was looking at mulch for my landscaping beds and LOs name was on the bags.
I smiled from ear to ear and bought 15 bags of the stuff. Now LO has a permanent fixture in my yard..
I don’t know if that’s a good or a bad thing! I’m glad it made you smile though 🙂
Good morning MJ
“No matter what I do, Lo is everywhere.”
That made me laugh! It’s true! My Lo even went on vacation w/me for free! – in my mind-, that is. You’re going through the heat of the LE. It took me ten long months and a lot of fighting it back before I gained some control of my mind. Not that I’m out of the woods yet but I realize it’s a waste of time on a person that is living his life ok without me, and that makes me mad, and make me fight even harder to shake it off once and for all. Why should I suffer? I don’t like suffering . I refuse to take it. It may sound selfish but that’s me. Either we suffer together or not me alone. No way.
The therapist will help in the sense that you may need someone with knowledge to talk to, to unburden your pain, if any thing. Try it, if you’re not satisfied let it go. You be the judge of that. Are you going to tell them about limerence and see what they say? You do the talking first. I suppose it’s very expensive? At work, don’t they have a program to help? How’s your dad doing? Too many questions, I’m sorry if I overstepped here. I’m just concerned about you. I want you to be alright, strong and healthy and kicking a$&.
Have a pleasant weekend.
Thank you Nisor,
They do have an EAP program at work and I could go that route. I just question an ulterior motive on the conpanys part, should I say I’m obsessed with a co worker. Not that I expect a retaliation or even be written up or fired for it. I would just hate to LO or I suddenly become”transferred” because it all happens on company property and they might suspect “something” is “brewing” and they are trying to keep it from going further.
I have company paid insurance anyway and the co pay is not unreasonable so that is probably the route I will go.
I have every intention to bring up limerence. However, with it being a newer thing, most Therapists don’t seem to know a thing about it, so I guess I’ll just prepare myself now for another lesson on addiction and 12-step AA recovery lingo. And maybe sorting out some anger issues.
We’ll see.
Gee, MJ I didn’t think of that, that the company may have and ulterior motive. And may separate you from working in the same premises. No good. Your idea to go private is better. Just see how it goes the first few visits, if you feel they’re wasting your time, and bull sh@&$ng you, drop
it. Let’s be positive on this anyway. I hope and pray that they understand what limerence is and can help you w all your issues. You’ll be alright. I have the feeling you’ll soon come out of it , just waiting for a breakthrough.
Blessings and lots of strength.
I failed. I looked at LO’s facebook. Those green eyes and that smile. Time for more vodka. It is nice to see hear daughters with LOs gentleman friend. He’s good to them.
Sometimes I think the best solution to avoid being triggered would be to become like the Grinch and go live off the grid, up in the mountain. I already feel that miserable..
Social media is the bane of getting past this. She may be gone out of my life but with a few clicks or swipes and I ruin months of NC and welcome back ruminations. Ah what a vicious cycle.
Hey, Adam.
I’ve read your recent posts (including a couple of brilliant ones!) and I’m rooting for you, especially as I recently did something similar. Worse, actually, because I sent a physical birthday card – simply because I had already bought it months ago.
I’ll stick my neck out and say that I don’t think you’ve actually ruined the months of NC. It’s a setback and these things seem to happen to so many of us. It’s easy to do with the technology we have. My theory is that when we succumb to easing the pressure like this, we feel upset with ourselves but it’s just another step along the way.
It feels awful but maybe it’s a bit more experience to put under your belt on the way to recovery.
Hi Adam,
I hope you are feeling a little bit better! I agree that you have not broken no contact. However, I do know what you mean because I also count the time I have not checked social media.
Staying away from their profiles is much harder than not reaching out… but also very important to my recovery. So, I understand how wonderful and then devastating it can be when one slips up.
Here is some advice that you didn’t ask for! I say choose three things that fall under purposeful living that you are really going to lean into this week. They should be active things- things that you will do- not things you will avoid. See if that helps.
When I slip up I try not to say I am back at stage 0. Rather, I tell myself it is a sign that I am not focusing on purposeful living enough.
Good luck.
Frederico, Summer
I had to go to Walmart this morning. I saw a dress as I was walking by I liked. And immediately I thought of how momma would look in it. I took a picture and texted her “this would look perfect on you”. It was a spaghetti strap dress that barely covered (so you can see all those American thighs as Brian Johnson would say) the knees. 😉 She texted back “is it a dress or nightgown” and I replied “I dont know I just want to see you in it”. My thoughts went right to momma and not LO when I saw that dress! I got home and she’s sleeping from a migraine but I sure wished she wasnt 😉
So for her birthday next month I am going to buy one of those dresses and this feather pendant necklace I saw on instagram. (Am I too old to on instagram? I feel like I am lol)
I wish Miss Lovisa was here to see. She always told me to find a way to connect again with momma so Id stop thinking of LO. I miss you Miss Lovisa. If youre reading this, thank you. Youre an angel.
I don’t know if that’s a good or a bad thing! I’m glad it made you smile though 🙂
C for c
It’s good you express yourself with some kind of humor. I like it. It s your pleasant personality that distinguishes you from others. Unique. It’s a compliment! Cheer up!
❤️
Thanks Nisor. I’m not very kind to myself most of the time; maybe I should try to treat myself like I treat my friends, rather than like a messed-up, annoying obsessive!
Yeah Cat, cheer up. I don’t share a cup of tea and a muffin with just anybody.
Fair enough 😄
Hey Cat, don’t take it that hard. I hate myself 98% of the time.
Must be limerent thing.
My friendship circle is very small too.
Cat and MJ, no diminishing of ourselves allowed. The king will soon have to pass another decree . You’re all beautiful and great and courageous, strong and you’re enough. Say good things about yourselves, the mind registers as truth everything we say about ourselves. Have you seen Marissa Peer podcast? She’s fun and a very positive person/therapist. No nonsense woman. She lifts me up. Try it.
Good night.
I’ll take a peek this weekend.
Thank you Nisor. As always, you are a breath of fresh air.
Yes, thanks Nisor. Positivity has never been my strong point!
I spent the last two days scouring social media for information about my LO. His FB account is private but his parents are wide open. I got some photos of him there. Then I found his twitter account. We actually have something in common. I followed him but don’t think he noticed. Everytime I look at one of the photos I snagged of him I get high. I’m happily married. I don’t know why I got so obsessed with this guy. I just ket him briefly, he performed endodontic surgery on my husband. He did a great job, and he’s handsome and friendly. Once the procedure was done I couldn’t stop thinking about him. It’s been two weeks already. Don’t know how to stop. Like I said I literally look at his his photo and inhale and feel euphoric. Is this harmless? I don’t think so because it’s making it hard, if not impissible to concentrate on other things. And yes, I had a traumatic childhood, and fantasized alot as a kid as I was left alone and neglected quite a bit.
Hi Christina Herren,
It sounds like you are using your LO for mood regulation. I know those quick, easy highs feel amazing. If only we could enjoy the benefits of limerence without the dark side, wouldn’t that be wonderful? I’m so sorry, but I think you are heading towards a dark place.
That euphoric high is nice now, but it can turn into intrusive thoughts. The intrusive thoughts are awful! I came to this website almost two years ago because I was having intrusive thoughts about my LO2. My LO2 is an old friend of more than twenty years. I developed limerence for him and it was amazing at first. But when we went NC, the intrusive thoughts were unbearable. I was so desperate to get LO2 out of my head that I transferred my limerence to my current LO3. We have a lovely friendship now (I have friendships with LO2 and LO3). I can’t get high from thoughts of either man thank goodness. My relationship with both of them feels like friendship again. But it took a lot of work.
I highly recommend that you stop daydreaming about your LO. I highly recommend that you stop looking at his pictures. Distract yourself.
I recommend that you settle in here and get to know some fellow limerents. You can distract yourself from thinking about your LO by posting here or reading the comments. This website and the LwL community helped me get over my limerence. I feel limerence-free now.
I noticed that Adam commented on your post. He is a great resource. His wife comments on LwL, too. They are honest and real. I recommend that you get to know them.
I’ve been absent for a while, but I used to comment regularly. This is a great community. Welcome to the club!
I want to share some resources with you. Please read the article about limerence and mood regulation.
https://livingwithlimerence.com/using-limerence-for-mood-regulation/
Please watch a short YouTube video about intrusive thoughts.
How to Deal with Intrusive Thoughts
by Mark Freeman
https://youtu.be/laeYq51SYA0
Best wishes!
-Lovisa
“I don’t know why I got so obsessed with this guy. I just ket him briefly, he performed endodontic surgery on my husband.”
When it happened to me I have no real understanding of why this particular woman invaded my head the way she did. I’ve had female co-workers in every job I have had since high school and this has never happened before. But apparently there was something about her.
“Everytime I look at one of the photos I snagged of him I get high.”
The best description of limerence I ever saw when first finding this place was “person addiction”. Because limerence is an addiction. So seeing him is, yes, like getting a hit. It’s that drink “I need” when an alcoholic gets home. It’s chasing that first high you got, be it alcohol, pot, gambling, shopping, etc. But nothing will be the same as the first high. And as, for whatever reason, the loss of the limerent object, or the diminished attention from them, the weaker and weaker the limerent highs get. Just like any addiction. You either feed it or starve it out. I was fortunate she made the decision to leave the job when she did. It’s still a struggle but it was the best thing for my marriage and wife.
Hi Adam! It’s good to see you. I hope your family is well. We are doing great. I might post an update on the New Years article because that is where my story unfolded.
Best wishes to you and Momma!
-Lovisa
Miss Lovisa
You’re back!!!!!! I always held on to the hope that you’d come back. I took a break from here myself too. I try to stay out of the trenches now more than I use to, to try and stay stable. Momma still posts here now and again.
I am so happy you are back. Wishing you and your family have been well. And looking forward to an update on you. I missed you. Glad to have you back.