One of the best defences against unwanted limerence is strength of character. The moral fibre, decisiveness and self-discipline to do the right thing even in the face of the tsumani of temptation that limerence brings.
So, how does one go about becoming such a paragon?
Unfortunately, most of us are not prepared for the intensity of limerent temptation. People who – in most other respects – are responsible and disciplined, are confronted by a desperate desire to commune with LO that seems irresistible.
We know we should resist that urge, but find ourselves outmatched. We wrestle with the conflict between our moral compass and our limerent desire, and are unequal to the challenge. That can be quite humbling.
We have to start our attempts at recovery from a position of failure, and like all addicts, we have to deal with the fact that a big part of us wants to fail, and keep failing, because that means more LO supply. It’s the most serious challenge that our self-discipline is put to.
That bald fact leaves us with two options: give in and see how deep the pool of negative consequences really is, or work on strengthening our self-discipline.
Self-discipline is a keystone habit – one of those habits like regular exercise or constant learning that make all other aspects of life better, in a virtuous cycle of positive reinforcement. As a consequence, the self-help literature is full of suggestions about how to improve yours.
Although people disagree about exactly what self-discipline is, how it differs from willpower, and whether it is an intrinsic trait or something that can be developed, I think one of the most straightforward definitions of the idea is this:
Self-discipline is the ability to do what you should do, when you should do it, whether you feel like it or not.
Elbert Hubbard
That leaves a certain amount unsaid, though. Where does that ability come from? How do you know what you should do? How do you make yourself act when you meet powerful emotional resistance?
There is a whole industry around this, and I have compiled a lot of the best ideas and tactics into a “self-discipline toolkit” as part of the emergency deprogramming course. It’s too much for one blog post, but here are the three biggest wins – the unifying ideas that are necessary for any of the clever tactics to work.
1. You already know what you should do
As I argued in the last post, most people know when they are behaving contrary to their moral principles. That’s why they feel guilt and regret about their conduct.
The prick of your conscience is your true self trying to communicate to you. It’s lost the intellectual argument under the barrage of rationalisations from your limerence-enabling brain, but it’s deeply unhappy about the choice you’ve made. And it lets you know with feelings of guilt.
It is important to develop a good ear for listening to that voice. It has your best interests at heart. It is, however, equally important to examine the sources of the deep-rooted beliefs that give voice to your conscience.
I subscribe to the view that we generally share a sense of fairness and morality that has a biological (or at least, evolutionary) origin. That intrinsic sense of right and wrong is, however, overlaid by the psychological experiences that shape our lives.
Other people can speak through our inner voice – abusive parents, authoritarian teachers, priests, philosophers and toxic friends. Developing the skill of hearing the true, authentic voice of your own moral self is essential to self-discipline, because that is the best way to align your life to your ideals. One way to tell the difference is to be attuned to the distinction between guilt (I shouldn’t have done that), shame (I am a terrible person), and fear (I will be punished for disobedience).
Another good way is to pay attention to how your self-esteem varies with your behaviour. There is a direct relationship between self-discipline and self-esteem. The more you successfully motivate yourself to do the right thing, the more you will like yourself. And the more you like yourself, the easier it will become to keep striving to be better.
There is immense value in listening to others and learning from them, but mostly to refine your own views, not to simply adopt theirs.
Get to know the voice of your conscience, and befriend it.
2. You only have to be better, not perfect
Success doesn’t have to mean perfection. One of the biggest barriers to behavioural change is that people aim for big epic wins – grand gestures – rather than aiming for daily improvement. The best way to lose weight is not to sign up to run a marathon. It’s to consistently eat more healthily, with 10-20% fewer calories than you need to maintain your body weight each day. Sure, no-one is going to put a medal over your head at any point, but after a few months you will have lost a lot of weight.
The other big benefit of this approach is that you will have lost weight in a way that is easy to sustain into the future. If you are aiming for some big finishing line, you are far more likely to simply fall back into your old habits once you’ve crossed it. You did it. You met the challenge… but you did not transform yourself in a lasting way.
Developing self-discipline is the same. Doing more right than wrong will mean your life is going to get better. Giving in to temptation occasionally is like a cheat day on a diet – regrettable for sure, but if you respond by declaring the whole enterprise hopeless, you are throwing away gains that can be easily recaptured by simply reasserting your ambitions and doing better tomorrow.
A daily habit of small improvements is inexorable. Unbeatable.
3. Practice until it becomes a habit
Following on from that last principle, there are easy, practical ways to make daily improvements. Like any other form of exercise, you practice being self-disciplined in small ways that build up.
One powerful method is to discipline yourself to write down your goals. It sounds trivial, but it isn’t. It takes some patience, it takes time, it takes a bit of effort – but not so much that it provokes intense resistance. So, sit down with a pad of paper and start planning.
I talked about this sort of thing before, but there is a world of difference, psychologically and practically, between “I wish my life was better,” and “This is what I mean by ‘better’, and here are a list of steps that I can take to get from where I am to where I want to be.”
Not only does this sort of exercise work your discipline muscles a bit, it also helps you understand how your choices affect your destiny.
The more you think about the long-term consequences of your behavior, the more likely it is that you will do the right thing in the short term
Brian Tracy
Similar benefits come from practicing discipline in other areas of life. Go to bed on time. Get up when your alarm goes off. Keep your living environment clean and tidy. Take regular exercise. Eat well.
We all know these habits are healthy. We know that strict but caring adults try to cultivate them in children because they are good habits to have, and will help your life run more smoothly and effectively. But we also typically rebel against them once we are free to live as we please, and have to re-learn the old lessons (sometimes painfully) as adulthood progresses.
What’s less obvious though, is that practicing these habits also trains you to resist the larger, fiercer temptations that have the potential to abruptly destablise life.
Limerence for someone I could not form a relationship with is by far the biggest temptation I have ever faced, and it was the small, incremental efforts to exert self-discipline in other areas of life that built the resilience I needed to weather it.
Don’t underestimate the power of small victories in preparing you for life’s big battles.
Upon finding the last picture somewhat relatable – – decluttering has recently given me a lot of positive reinforcement and the ability to regain my focus and my sense of control.
It’s tedious work and the reward is rarely a dopamine hit but that’s partly the point: getting rid of unwanted stuff is like, a real life thing. It’s finally a sign of normalcy, not a sign of being insane(ly attached) or addicted.
Decluttering, similarly to the determination to abstain from limerence is about self discipline, and about not clinging to (L) Objects of desire any more.
During the process, by seeing how worthless and unfulfilling they have become, I’m learning how not to long for things. I hope it helps me build the muscle to resist the temptation when it becomes necessary (and I’m not referring to shopping this time).
Also, because I rationally know that clinging onto the memory of LO is nothing but harmful to me, I am trying to declutter these compulsive associations from my brain.
The newest imagery I apply when I involuntarily think about my last LE is that of a healed wound. Not very original… but helpful. Never denying the existence of the scar but always reminding myself that it’s a different period now.
I agree about the decluttering, J79. I think one of the reasons why Marie Kondo had such an impact is that the benefits of decluttering go far beyond a tidy room.
Also like the scar analogy. Quick but functional fix that also reminds you of the past wound.
Also, the LO – scar analogy works for me since I know it’s no use recalling / evoking what happened, especially not in a self-tormenting way (when I had that bike accident at the age of 15…). As others have written, I try to move on and follow the rule of sanity: don’t mess with your scarred skin once it’s healed.
Great post Dr. L!
Learning to exercise that self discipline regarding limerence will benefit all facets of life! Now to do my work out…
J79 I like the image of the healed wound leaving a scar. The skin is more fragile at the scar site but as long as we don’t aggravate it (by ruminating or worse) the skin stays in tact.
Yeah. I’m resisting the urge to think of LO as something pleasant (it’s one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to do, this reprogramming).
Instead, just like with physical injuries of the past, I try to observe the wound resulting from the LE and tell myself, “I’m not glad it happened and I had to suffer so long. It is, however, over now. Let’s focus on currently important and truly rewarding things.”
Yes, recognising that benefit is an important step, I think.
When I was emerging from the limerence, I had a phase of thinking “how do I want to be, now that it’s over?”
Limerence is going to change you. There’s no escaping that. But you do have some control over how it changes you and what kind of person emerges on the other side.
“how do I want to be, now that it’s over?”
I think this is a good thing to say to oneself to reaffirm that it is over.
Hope hangs around in my head, despite all that has passed.
I need to remind myself that it’s over until I’m indifferent that it is.
Thanks for all the wise words, Dr.L
I think of LOs like an abscess. Once you lance and disinfect it, the pus is gone but there can be a big hole to fill in.
You know, a mental image that nauseating could really help with the psychological deprogramming!
New mantra: “My LO is a pus-filled abscess”
Yep,
Painful, toxic, and if left untreated, it could kill you.
This post and all your posts for months, Dr. L, have been so insightful. Almost too much of “I see you” at times.
I know the right thing to do yet I’m not at the point of self discipline. I crave self discipline and the right choice badly, yet the —now minimal—euphoric hits of
Dopamine and habit of investigating have kept me
In the loop. Ridiculous and simultaneously so hard, making sense to no one unless they get it.
Thank you for your blog and practice power you teach. I’m trying. I’m not there. I want to be there badly, but I’m also so sad to release the high of the validation I do get from LO. Selfish and feels narcissistic. I hate me for this. But thank you for teaching truth.
“Laws and principles are not for the times when there is no temptation. . . . They have a worth—so I have always believed; and if I cannot believe it now, it is because I am insane—quite insane: with my veins running fire, and my heart beating faster than I can count its throbs.”
Jane Eyre
~ former limerent who married well
Beth….
That is a brilliant quote!
I think self-discipline is good and can certainly lead to good outcomes, but after a while it can start to feel like a being in a box. You have to go to work, which is already a box in and of itself, but eating healthfully takes time to plan and cook meals, then you have to exercise, even for a short time a day, and then you want to work on a hobby or side gig … but all of that can start to feel like another job. And then there’s the limerent over there in the corner, who’s luring you like a siren to … what you don’t know, but the thought of the possibilities can be very seductive. Almost like eating an entire box of cookies in a day. Yes, you will regret it, but after eating healthfully, even with mini-cheats built in, removing all chains and shackles and giving yourself free reign to eat whatever you want is wonderful, frankly. At least in the moment.
I can relate Marcia. Too many “shoulds” in life makes it all feel like a chore. I think some self discipline is essential but too much makes you stressed, perfectionistic and unhappy.
Self discipline should always be balanced in equal measures with self compassion.
Marcia, Allie,
let alone the (false) conviction we limerents tend to have when the glimmer hits: “oh, OK, life is _finally_ rewarding me with LO. It must be because I’ve toiled so hard, I am so reliable, pure and worthy, so I deserve this semi-god(dess).”
Interesting take @Marcia
So say one attempts self-discipline successfully at A, there are two possibilities on how it impacts other areas:
1. As DrL suggests, one becomes better at self-discipline at B (controlling Limerence in this case) because one has confidence & has strengthened that muscle.
2. As you suggest, one becomes worse at B due to self-discipline fatigue.
So which is it? I think it can go either ways though personally for me usually it is #1. I get caught up in virtuous cycles, or vicious cycles at EVERYTHING for days on end. Any one decision one way or the other then seems to have a momentum in the same direction for many other decisions.
Interestingly, I did not associate Limerence with other personal habits till now… but I guess I could)
Blue Ivy,
“So which is it?”
I think it depends on the person. I decided I needed to clean up my diet, and I have made some changes while leaving a few key things I still need to remove. I didn’t want to remove all bad stuff all at once or I’d go bonkers. And I feel decidedly better. But last night was a struggle. The desire to get a bag of cookies and eat not a couple but all of them was great — I think it’s the feeling of abandon. I was “disciplined” and didn’t get the cookies, and I was pleased about that when I got up this morning, but I won’t lie, eating healthfully isn’t anywhere near as much fun.
“I think self-discipline is good and can certainly lead to good outcomes, but after a while it can start to feel like a being in a box.”
@Marcia.
Do you think what recovering limerents need is something in life to feel passionate about? I mean a healthy passion, of course…
It’s hard to justify self-discipline to ourselves I think if nothing in our lives feels truly exciting, and that’s where the healthy passion hopefully comes in. 🙂
Sammy,
Have you read https://livingwithlimerence.com/displacement-activities/ ?
Thanks for the link. Appreciate it! 🙂
Sammy,
“Do you think what recovering limerents need is something in life to feel passionate about? I mean a healthy passion, of course…”
But what are the healthy passions? I wish I was one of those people who picked up, for example, a guitar in middle school and now it was attached to my person because I loved it so much. But I’m not. I have noticed in recently going to two groups I’m in that I feel very good when I’m around people who I can have really good conversations with, as corny as that sounds. And as selfish as it sounds, about topics I am interested in. I don’t have the opportunity to talk about topics I’m interested in all that often. I left those group events feeling very positive. But right now, this amounts to about an hour or two a week for me, which is not enough. So I have to keep looking. But your “peeps” just don’t just fall into your lap. 🙂
“But what are the healthy passions?”
@Marcia.
Great question! And I don’t have any answers right now… 😛
Do you know, I think maybe limerence is so pleasurable because of how intense it is, how “focused” it is, how concentrated it is.
People who experience limerence have to have this obsessive thing in their personality that most people just don’t have. So plenty of people (non-limerents) don’t ever feel obsessively engaged in anything. They just flit from one activity to the next, usually whatever their mates are doing, and they’re okay with that.
My dad told me he’s never really enjoyed coffee, alcohol, fine food, etc. He doesn’t understand foodies or people who rave about how great a cup of coffee tastes. I can taste differences in cups of coffee.
Maybe us limerents – we have overdeveloped taste buds, or something? And once we find something we like, we want to keep chewing on/chewing over that and nothing else. (The incomparably wonderful cup of coffee is a metaphor for an LO of course!)
Sammy,
(The incomparably wonderful cup of coffee is a metaphor for an LO of course!)
I beg to differ. Chocolate mousse prepared by a French chef delivered to the table by Johnny Depp in his pirate costume. 🙂 That is about all I could come up with off the top of my head that compares to an LO. 🙂
Sammy,
“He doesn’t understand foodies or people who rave about how great a cup of coffee tastes.”
That reminds me of an acquaintance who once said that pretty much all sex is good sex. Oh no no no, I thought. It’s like an other experience in life — it ranges from really awful to really great, both of those actually begin outliers. People who say stuff like that kind of scare me because your experience with that person would be lumped in to all their other experiences.
This post came at a perfect time. I am a month NC with LO, and after dreaming of them three times this week (why do you torment me so subconscious?) I found myself falling back into fantasizing with the urge to reach out creeping up again.
However, this time can be used as an opportunity to work on some self-discipline. In the throughs of my LE, I didn’t have the time or desire to do things I once did. I would spend my free time talking to or fantasizing about LO, even going to bed early so I could lay in bed ruminating without interruption!
I’m still working on it, but the idea is to do some sort of activity when those thoughts come up. I made a long list of things I want to do (tidying up, gardening, exercising, reading, etc.) and anytime a thought or urge regarding LO comes up, I just choose from the list and make myself get up and do something. It’s a work in progress, but I’m always happier with myself when I do it.
I like the above analogy of looking at LO as a wound. It will only heal if you leave it alone and stop picking at it. My wound hasn’t closed yet, but I think it’s getting there.
Great post!
Perhaps the person most vulnerable from decisively finishing the LE is the ‘functioning alchoholic’ limerent.
Perhaps the absolute peak of LE as subsided and one can go about their daily activities and maintain their primary relationships, but the ember glow of the LO is still smouldering away in the background.
I guess it’s like the ship that steers 1 degrees from it’s intended course. Initially there is little discernible change but by the end of the journey it has arrived at completely the wrong destination or worse is lost at sea. The captain has to continually check it’s headed on the right course.
Yes, I think that’s a good insight, Flashbulb Eyes. Especially because the line between “functioning alcoholic” and “social drinker” can be hard to identify.
I remember having a conversation with someone who lamented that “the second bottle of wine is always a mistake” when reflecting on their own drinking. It turned out that they routinely drank a bottle a wine a night by themselves, occasionally having two bottles. They considered themselves a social drinker, but wondered if the increasing number of two-bottle nights was something to worry about. (For context, that means comfortably exceeding the NHS recommended weekly alcohol limits every night).
They were a successful and functional person. But almost certainly storing up trouble for their future self.
“storing up trouble for their future self.”
And that’s it isn’t it. Making the tough decisions today that will benefit your tomorrow.
My LE peaked 5 years ago. A magical, euphoric experience. Every returned smile and pleasantry reenforcing and building the strength of feeling and reward.
Me – ambitious introverted creative-type, religious upbringing, married young.
The LO – a married stranger, who showed up in the neighbourhood, swim class, school run and even my workplace.
The perfect storm.
Ultimately with NC not being possible, exposure and understanding (thanks to LwL) have blunted the edge. The smiles and pleasantries are still exchanged daily but the fog has cleared and thanks to my charm offensive over the years there’s probably reciprocated attraction.
Knowing there’s a level of attraction and it’ll never be acted upon has removed the volatile fuel of uncertainty, at least.
However, thanks to this site, I now have the tools and degree of emotional itnellegiance to recognise it for it is.
I’m living with it as a sleeping (if not slain) lion that requires a heavy daily dose of self control to keep it sedated.
“A magical, euphoric experience. Every returned smile and pleasantry reenforcing and building the strength of feeling and reward.
Me – ambitious introverted creative-type, religious upbringing, married young.
The LO – a married stranger, who showed up in the neighbourhood, swim class, school run and even my workplace.
The perfect storm.”
@Flashbulb Eyes.
I love what you’ve written here. You haven’t gone into too much detail, but you’ve captured powerful emotion in relatively few words, and the rhythm of your sentences makes it sound like a poem to my ear.
Maybe we could condense/tweak it further to highlight the poetry?
A magical, euphoric experience:
Every returned smile,
Every pleasantry.
Me – a creative type with strong morals.
LO – a married stranger haunting the neighbourhood.
A perfect storm…
No, wait. The perfect storm!
Love this Flashbulb Eyes!
“Functioning Alcoholic” describes my situation perfectly. And as you say, keeping my life “ship” on course requires self discipline and a large dose of mind awareness and control. Even then, my ship does tend to drift off course fairly regularly.
I now wonder…
We know the long term consequences on our physical health of too much alcohol, tobacco, marijuana or caffeine. All of which are common “functional” addictions.
Are there any long term harmful health consequences from limerence? Or can you theoretically stay in limerence limbo indefinitely?
I must add that I am certainly not proposing this as a good idea! I am just wondering if it affects your health.
“Various cancers, stomach/intestinal issues, glandular difficulties, rheumatism, migraine headaches, Anxiety/Panic Disorders and adult acne are only a few of the ailments that are triggered by long-held resentment and repressed rage. It’s not that anger is wrong or bad, but it’s harshly self-judged, and eradicated from one’s persona. Non-acceptance of any type of human emotion has one forging and maintaining a partial personality, instead of a whole one.” – Shari Schreiber https://sharischreiber.com/do-you-love-to-be-needed/
I don’t know the basis for Schreiber’s claims but she is a pro in this field.
Pay attention to the last sentence. If limerence and codependence have similar but distinct origins and effects (http://www.andreaharrn.co.uk/co-dependent-limerent/#sthash.ZXZ5kBZY.dpbs), the answer would appear, “yes,” limerence might cause similar harmful affects.
Interesting thanks.
Limerence and Co-dependence are different problems with different origins though aren’t they. But agree, clearly limerence can harm if there are mental health co-morbidities such as emotional repression, co-dependence, depression, anxiety disorder, etc.
I guess I was wondering if the limerence addiction itself in isolation… the constant LE state of heightened arousal.., the limerence neurochemistry, can cause harm over a long period, in the same way that substance abuse does. Surely there is some kind of extra “wear” from all that arousal? Dr L?
A quick and dirty response is that, no, it is unlikely that prolonged arousal would have the same impact as substance abuse. Big difference in mechanisms, as the drug will be causing a profound disruption of the neurochemical environment, which the body adapts to with substantial changes at a molecular and cellular level. Physiologically-induced arousal will be working through the intrinsic mechanisms, and so would adapt more slowly and more subtly.
The longer answer probably warrants its own blog post, but certainly elevated levels of cortisol and adrenaline will have long term health effects, and there will be long term changes in the relevant neural circuits as a consequence of repeatedly reinforcing particular stimuli.
I should work this up into something coherent 🙂
“Self-discipline is the ability to do what you should do, when you should do it, whether you feel like it or not.”
This perfectly encapsulates how I feel about my own life and my struggles with becoming the man I know I am capable of becoming. I have been far too guilty of giving into my wishes and desires and not focusing on what I need to do in order to have a successful and more purposeful life. However, I totally agree with Allie 1 as well about not trying to do too much all at once. We still need some down time and to take time to enjoy life, but I still kind of think of that as being part of doing what we need to do, when we need to do it. There is nothing wrong with scheduling time for fun and relaxation, and anyone who is engaging in a quest to have a more purposeful life should acknowledge that.
I am struggling with my moral compass a little bit, not because I have done or will do anything inappropriate with my LO, but because of my marriage and how I feel about it. It took me 18 months from the point I first became limerent for LO #1 to finally come to terms with the fact that I was deeply dissatisfied and unhappy in my marriage (I have never cheated on my wife and never would, but limerence was the catalyst telling me things were deeply wrong in my marriage and frankly in my life). I had to be 100% sure it wasn’t just limerence driving me, but I am now relatively at peace with my decision to end my marriage. I have communicated this clearly and unequivocally to my wife several times but she doesn’t get it. She is acting like nothing is wrong and that everything is fine just because I am being pleasant towards her. Even as I type this (I am supposed to be working right now), I am having an argument with her where she is trying to plan “family time” and I am telling her we are done and that nothing has changed between us. She wants me to schedule counselling but I cannot see how that will help when I want to do everything within my power to separate and she wants to do everything within her power to stay together. She is refusing to leave “her” house and insists that our daughter stays at the same school, and she is trying to make all kinds of plans for the future, even as I tell her there won’t be a future together. Aren’t couples who go to counselling supposed to have shared goals? I suppose I could schedule a session or two, but how would that work?
I know deep down I am never going to be with either of my LOs. I am actually alright with that, but I do think I could meet someone else. However, I question whether I ever want to be married again. I have a problem with being dominated and controlled and told what to do by someone else. I would rather not have to answer to anyone. At the heart, that is the biggest problem in my marriage, but we haven’t been intimate in years. I am not getting any younger. I want that part of my life back, but because of our marital difficulties, my wife and I have lost that part of our marriage. I believe it is primarily about how she treats me, but for whatever reason, it feels like she is my sister or another family member. I just don’t feel that “spark” for her at all anymore. I care for her and respect her, but I feel like it would be best if we just went our separate ways regardless of who is at “fault.” This isn’t even about fault or blame but just the recognition that we probably aren’t compatible as husband and wife.
Despite me feeling largely at peace with my decision to go our separate ways — and friends and family members telling me it’s the right thing to do — I still have a slight nagging doubt. I still feel terrible about breaking my wife’s heart. She doesn’t want to separate, and we are pretty cordial with each other most of the time. She has even apologized and told me she is willing to change (although I am certain that her “change” to being less bossy, controlling and manipulative would last a few weeks at most). I am 99% sure my desire to separate isn’t driven by limerence. LO #1 is a stranger and LO #2 has basically told me I’m not her type. My chances of being with either of these ladies are slim to none. But is there a slight part of me that still wants to chase after them? I wouldn’t be averse to being with either of them, but at least the rational, logical part of my brain is telling me that is very unlikely to happen. Even if my desire is to meet someone else, is that the right reason to end a marriage? Am I just thinking with another part of my anatomy? I don’t know. These are such hard decisions. I totally get the idea that we should focus on doing the right thing, but what if you can’t really decide what the right thing actually is?
I’d consult a divorce lawyer before I did anything, but if you are serious about leaving, you may have to move out. I know you said money is an issue, but can you rent a room somewhere or stay with a relative? Moving out would be a clear signal you are moving the process forward.
“Aren’t couples who go to counselling supposed to have shared goals? I suppose I could schedule a session or two, but how would that work?”
If you’re committed to ending the marriage, you go to couples counseling and state that. You’re not there to try and salvage the marriage, you’re only there to help her accept what’s about to happen.
And, then, you proceed. You don’t drop that bomb unless you’re 100% committed to making it happen. Divorce isn’t usually easy, it’s usually painful and expensive.
If you can’t or won’t accept what divorce would bring, don’t keep using it as a threat. If she was committed to changing, she’d be seeing therapist already on her own. And, so would you.
Thanks Marcia and LE. I am serious about divorce, but money and family logistics are such that the only thing that would work is an in-house separation, although I recognize how incredibly difficult that would be (we generally need to be separated for a full year before being granted a divorce in this jurisdiction). I’m really not using it as a threat. It is truly what I want. It just took me a long time to really get comfortable with the idea. I don’t feel all that great about it in some ways, although I understand this is normal. You don’t walk away from 20 years together that easily, and there are always going to be at least some nagging doubts (other than in the case of horrible physical abuse, etc.).
Idk. You could be looking at a couple of years of having to live together if you have to wait a year to be separated and then go through the divorce process and sell the house if you are waiting on the equity to move out. It depends on how she accepts the situation in terms of how pleasant or unpleasant that could be.
I really feel for you VL, this must be really tough. Even though you are the one wanting a divorce, I expect it is still going to be just as painful for you as it will be for your wife. For a while anyway, but time will heal you both and exciting new opportunities will be there for the taking.
From above and everything you have said previously, it sounds to me like you are making a very carefully considered and rational decision.
One way to make it much more real to her and your daughter is to move into a separate room/area and lock the door – which I think you may have done.
The other is to tell your wife and daughter, at the same time, that you no longer wish to be married to your wife. Be prepared to answer any questions your daughter may have and to reassure her that you are still committed to her well-being and no, there is no one else in the picture. That this has been on your mind for a long time and your mind is made up.
Your daughter may even find this a relief. It’s unlikely that she thought the two of you were particularly happy together and she may even have been feeling guilty that the only reason for not ending it was “for her”.
Hold firm.
Vicarious Limerent,
You’ve done well to get as far as you have. Limerence in itself is confusing. Doing the work to find out why you are limerent takes a lot of self reflection. But you have gone a step further by trying to rectify that. I envy you – that takes a lot of courage and guts to upend your life as it is. You could easily stay in your marriage, have an affair or daydream your life away. Feel good about your choice and move forward.
Thanks everyone for your input and advice. Things are strange because they are fairly cordial most of the time, yet I am unwavering in my commitment to separation and eventual divorce. In many ways, I think my wife is more worried about losing her middle class lifestyle than losing me. It all seems to centre around our house and neighbourhood and my daughter’s school. But our marriage is pretty bad and the situation between my wife and daughter is intolerable and often violent. My hope was to sell the house and get custody of my daughter, but it isn’t going to be that simple. I can eventually force a sale of the house, but I am willing to live in the basement at least for a while and see how that plays out. My wife says she refuses to leave our house, but she will eventually have to leave. Neither of us can afford to buy the other one out. I will try counselling to see if it can help my wife understand it really truly is over, but she wants to try it in order to try to reconcile and that is incredibly unlikely to happen. I care for her and still love her in many ways, but this isn’t a marriage. Life is too short to waste it being miserable! And sure I’d love to be with either of my LOs, but I realize that life doesn’t revolve around either of them; there’s plenty of other fish in the sea!
“And sure I’d love to be with either of my LOs”
You ‘ve mentioned your LOs, plural, I’ve never been limerent for two people at the same time. I have been limerent for one and developed interest in another, but that interest was never as strong. Limerence causes me to be hyper-focused on one person. YMMV
LO #1 is really a former LO, but I still like her a whole lot. The limerence is gone but not the interest, attraction and affection. I can totally live without her and I’m not pining away for her, but I still think she is a sweetheart and I wouldn’t be at all against the idea of dating her once my marriage ends. Still, I recognize it is highly unlikely (although she does kind of like guys who match my physical type (at least once I slim down a little more, which I am definitely working on) and she is a friend-of-a-friend, so it isn’t entirely impossible).
I was watching the movie “Wilde” about writer Oscar Wilde. He was at the height of his success, a widely celebrated playwright, and could have had just about anyone he wanted. He’d had a few relationships/liaisons with other men but then took one look at college student Bosie Douglas — and that was it. Every limerent’s dream.
The strange thing is that most people I know would consider me to be very good at self-discipline. Years ago, I gave up sugar and carbs to lose weight and keep from regaining. I don’t eat donuts, birthday cake, candy, chips, French fries, etc.
I exercise regularly, I don’t drink or smoke or take drugs. It’s been over a decade since my previous person addiction. I don’t understand how it is that I can take a pass when someone offers me a sweet treat, and I have no desire to eat my kids’ holiday candy. But my LO is an addiction that’s torturing me even as I slowly inch my way out of the limerence fog.
I can really relate to that Candace. Similarly, I also have a natural inclination for self discipline, sometimes even to the point where I have been far too rigid and hard on myself in the past. But I think it is this that actually makes me vulnerable to giving in to certain temptations. I relate this to a quote from Marcia above “removing all chains and shackles and giving yourself free reign to *do* whatever you want is wonderful, frankly. At least in the moment.” Hence why I *try* to mindfully balance self discipline with being kind to myself – to avoid feeling “chained and shackled”.
I can totally relate. I also need to balance using my self-discipline and determination that I show in other parts of my life with being kind to myself because I’m not perfect.
Re: perfection:
Q: What’s the difference between a good paint job and a great paint
job?
A: About 10 feet.
Thanks so much to Dr L and the commentators on this blog for helping through a tricky time. I’m early 40s and have a SO of 20 years. My latest LE (first in 10 years) came out of the blue and made me ask some serious questions and I’m pleased to say after 2 months of NC feel like I’m slowly but surely getting over LO. Thanks to this site I’ve been living more purposefully and have the tools I need to crack on with life. I love my SO, we have a solid relationship built on trust, respect and communication. SO suspected somthing but I didn’t disclose as felt I could handle this on my own. The guilt is something I’m just going to have to deal with and the price I pay for the LE. Seems anything hedonistic in life incurs a debt and it’s up to us whether we want to repay that or not. My LE was entirely digital and I think made worse due to the unnatural conditions imposed upon us during lockdown (it was at its peak Feb/Mar.) This site has been so helpful, thankyou everyone and hang in there it does get better!
Dr. L, please include more of US, the single limerants, the ones who sometimes become forgotten because we don’t participate in extra marital affairs, we don’t struggle with moral dilemmas and fantasize about other people’s spouses, we don’t have have crushes on married co-workers and such, we just love the other single people who for whatever reason we just can’t over! 🙁
I am right there with you Anxious_Soul!
I have bounced from LE to LE over the years, but always as a single person for a single LO….who always wants to be my best friend….that gives lots of mixed signals, but in the end, never chooses me as a mate. (Probably for the best actually in hindsight, but still….)
Funny I didn’t think you could categorize limerence into single or married.
“we just love other people who for whatever reason we just can’t over”
Yup that sounds exactly like every limerent ever, regardless of marital status 🙂
I guess, being single, your recovery motivations are different to partnered limerents. Although, I’m not convinced that is universally true either… it should be, but I don’t think it is. Personally, language like “moral fibre”, “moral compass”, “paragon” and “virtuous” do absolutely nothing to motivate me either, I just feel like an atheist listening to a sermon 🙂 But if I strip that out of the above, the advice is gold, and I would think most of it applies equally to partnered and single limerents doesn’t it? i.e. self-discipline, habit change, practice, self compassion, incremental improvement.
Allie,
But don’t you think that not being able to get over someone is ultimately kind of ridiculous? I’m not saying one can will oneself to feel a certain way, but I think of it as … John Lennon had a lost weekend. I had “lost years” with limerence … and for what? He’s long gone. I’m not affecting him. It’s like you’re living, detached from what’s really going on in your life, with someone who’s not even there.
And to add to that … there have to be people who are there, who could be present, who could prove to be at least somewhat as interesting as the LO? I’m wondering limerence is some kind of elaborate defense mechanism … it keeps the limerent from truly living.
Oh yes it is definitely has flavours of ridiculous insanity about it!
The defence mechanism is an interesting idea.
I think back to how my limerent tendencies formed in my tween years. I was very emotional and sensitive, and thus shy and emotionally guarded as a result. I was a bit afraid of real boys and not strongly attracted to any because they seemed shallow to me. I think that is when my limerent tendencies were born. A mental relationship was satisfying at a deeper level, and far safer than exposing my vulnerability to anyone.
Allie,
“The defense mechanism is an interesting idea. … A mental relationship was satisfying at a deeper level, and far safer than exposing my vulnerability to anyone.”
That is what I was thinking. Or why was the idea of someone who was maybe half-interested or not interested enough to do anything about it appealing to me? Because in real life I don’t find men who are indecisive or flim flammy particularly sexy. And yet that describes my last LO.
Or limerence is an escape hatch. I’ve noticed that I have met my LOs at school when I was attending for lack of knowing what else to do or at jobs I had little interest in. I wasn’t happy with certain aspects of my life … and boom! … an LO appeared.