Today’s topic of discussion is proposed by Cassie:
You wrote about transfer to other relationships in a previous blog. After months and months of thinking what to do, I have just ended one after a considerable time for many reasons. It took strength and courage to choose being alone. My limerence is still with me. You say in the latest piece, purposeful living will help with future relationships. In this way, transfers might be avoided do you think?
I mentioned transference as one of the strategies for getting rid of limerence – specifically, for an LO that you don’t want to be limerent for. The reasoning behind the idea is that finding a new LO to dominate your internal world is a reliable way to displace your original, problematic LO, and free yourself from that obsession.
But, there’s an apparent contradiction at the heart of this argument, which Tennov identified in her original description of limerence. It’s there in the list of symptoms:
Inability to react limerently to more than one person at a time
So, what gives? How can transference work, if you can only be limerent for one person at a time? And, more pertinent to Cassie’s question, is transference even desirable? Is it better avoided?
This is a scenario where I can’t speak from experience, having never attempted the tranference strategy, because I was married and wanted limerence to go away. Not to be refocused onto a new person.
Transference is a viable strategy, but only really works for a particular set of circumstances:
- The limerent is single and looking for romance
- The original LO is unavailable or incompatible
- The connection between limerent and LO has not advanced to an emotional affair
The thinking here is that the limerent is open to the good vibes of euphoria, wants to find an LO who is compatible, and is free to jump in wholeheartedly if their feelings are reciprocated. This is the setup where transference would be a good outcome.
Even with that Goldilocks set of circumstances, though, there is still the problem of Tennov’s assertion that limerence is for one person at a time. How true is that?
I’m speculating here, but my experience is that it’s still possible to sense the glimmer, even when actively limerent for someone else. It’s weaker, it’s overpowered by the glamour of the LO, but that strange sense of potency still exists – it’s not extinguished entirely, even when limerence is strong.
If you do make the purposeful decision to detach from an unhealthy LO, and want to find a new, healthy LO, then being attuned to the glimmer can be an important starting point. Transference depends on kindling that glimmer for a new LO, as a way of stealing fuel from the old LO.
The excitement of early limerence can be a more fluid time, emotionally, than the established addiction of a deep connection to a longer-term LO. There is a chance for redirecting that exuberant energy onto someone more suitable.
So, that’s when transference is feasible and productive, but what about Cassie’s other questions? When is transference a destructive choice?
First, as in Cassie’s case, if unhealthy limerence has taken a lot out of you emotionally and physically, then absolutely, choosing to stay single is a purposeful decision. Throwing yourself back into the emotional turmoil of limerence is likely to be counterproductive to recovery.
A second scenario is if you find yourself repeatedly becoming limerent for dodgy LOs. Then, transference from one dodgy candidate to another is hardly progress. If a dysfunctional dynamic is what excites your limerence circuits, then you either have to resign yourself to a life of exhilarating agony, or resolve to change your approach to romance, and try prioritising affectional bonding over limerent thrills.
Transference can work well if the conditions are right, but may be a bad choice in others. Cassie asks whether purposeful living can allow a transfer to be avoided – the answer is certainly yes, but more importantly, purposeful living can allow you to make an informed decision about how your own experiences can help you decide which is the best choice. Should you swear off limerence, or find an alternative LO?
So, those are my thoughts. Question for the coffeehouse patrons: have you ever used transference for good or ill as a strategy for beating unwanted limerence?
I’ve never tried this approach, and am not sure I would want to. In a way it doesn’t seem fair to the new person as it feels like I would be using them. My limerence also isn’t something I can “turn on” with sheer will. It just happens to me, so I don’t know if I can go looking for it. But more importantly, it also seems like transferring to a new LO is just avoiding the inevitable, i.e. working on healing myself so I can feel HEALTHY attachment and love, not limerence. Until I heal myself, I will continue to be drawn to unhealthy people, even when they’re new LOs and seem perfect (once again).
Beth,
“In a way it doesn’t seem fair to the new person as it feels like I would be using them. ”
ITA. I mean, I guess if a limerent has a casual situation with a new person and both parties are on board that it is casual (the new person isn’t hoping for more), it may be ok. Could be a nice distraction. But to get into a serious relationship to get over an LO seems disingenuous. Like using someone else as a human band-aid. Unless the new person pretty much obliterates thoughts of the LO. I guess it’s possible but I don’t think likely. I think the limerent would have to be pretty much over the LO and the LE would have to be on the downward spiral for the limerent to be truly ready to commit seriously to someone else.
“Until I heal myself, I will continue to be drawn to unhealthy people …”
That is exactly what I did. New casual guy turned out to be slightly less unavailable and flim flammy/dodgy than my LO, but not much. In my case, I had to discover what limerence was, understand why I was limerent and, frankly, fix my picker. Working on all this. It’s a process. 🙂 Diving from one situation to another is not healthy. It’s ok to be one one’s own for a while. Unfortunately, it’s not common. A lot of people seem to go from one relationship to another.
Thank you Dr.L., for this thought provoking CoffeeHouse discussion on transference and the different aspects. I am also thankful to Beth and Marcia for their insight too into this situation so far.
The new relationship was one of life’s happenings and not a “strategy” or deliberate attempt or even wish to find a new LO. I agree wholeheartedly with Beth it is not possible for me” to turn limerence on at will” as such or eliminate the original LO. It was a circumstance of not “using” someone else but a genuine step to embrace life with someone new. Any transfer was unintentional. I naively thought the limerence and LO would fade over time and to some extent did until the LO contacted me after a long time. I also much later met him by accident. I realised how unfair this all is – for me, for my LO and then SO. As Beth says “healing” still needs to be done. And very much a path of self discovery as Marcia comments. I didn’t approach someone new, “diving in”. I thought, unwisely in retrospect, that I was more healed of limerence than I am and ready. My LO is struggling too from what he says. We each seem stuck in the “advanced connection” Dr.L wrote about as the third point. But each of is unable to be free, it appears so irresolvable. It is an unavailable universe. There is an impossibility about it all that as Marcia says being on one’s own for a time and seeking purposeful living as an approach may assist.
This is a very individual issue… as always!
I think have spent most of my life transferring my feelings from mild attractions to crushes to LE to relationships to crushes, etc, etc. The subsequent one fully extinguishes the preceding one although very few were full-on LEs. When they were a real relationships I gave myself whole-heartedly so was never being unfair to anyone. I would say I am perfectly healthy mentally and have no particular emotional healing to be done. I can contentedly live without if I need to but until marrying, I liked to, and chose to, live like that. And now I have hit mid-life it seems I this has a role to play in my life once more, and luckily it does not extinguish my feelings for SO.
I have experienced transference from LO #1 (a stranger) to LO #2 (a good friend). It wasn’t something I deliberately set out to do; it just worked out that way. One would think transferring to a new LO would be just replacing limerence for one person with another and therefore not solving the problem in any way. However, I am pleased to say that it did work for me as a harm reduction strategy to a certain extent. Limerence for a friend who was actually in my life and provided me with at least a little bit of validation (I didn’t become limerent for her until after she flirted with me a bit) felt far less bleak, hopeless and depressing than limerence for a stranger I’d only met once who showed me no interest or validation in any way. The limerence for LO #1 felt so much darker, depressing and all-consuming than it was for a friend I see every couple of weeks or so. No contact was so hard when it came to LO #1, but I never had to go no contact with LO #2 (although I had considered it a few times).
I am happy to say I believe I am now limerence-free (although I still like LO #2 a whole lot and I frankly still retain at least some affection for LO #1 as well), but in a strange twist of fate, I ended up getting to know one of LO #1’s best friends. She ended up flirting with me big time, and LO #1 actually ended up coming back into my life after an absence of over 2.5 years! We actually ended up all being on a night out together. LO #2 wasn’t there, but I can imagine LO #1, LO #2 and my glimmery friend all being out on a night out together at some point! What a strange coincidence and a small world.
As for not being able to be limerent for more than one person simultaneously, it kind of felt like I was limerent for both LO #1 and LO #2 for a month or two, but there was no question that it was a transitional period when my feelings for the first lady were waning and being replaced with feelings for the second one. However, I can point to a couple of nights when my feelings for LO #2 became much stronger, and my feelings for LO #1 were dramatically reduced as a result. I wouldn’t recommend transference as a deliberate strategy for getting rid of limerence — and I never deliberately set out for that to happen — but in my case at least it did work as a harm reduction strategy (i.e., replacing “heroin” with “methadone” — not that I think any less of LO #2 — quite the contrary actually). I would caution others thinking of doing something similar. However, I did end up experiencing a “soft landing” from limerence in the end. I still have a crush on LO #2, but it isn’t nearly as strong as it was a year ago or so. I am almost back to being myself, although I am upset about losing so much of the motivation for self-improvement I had at the height of my limerence. My marriage is still incredibly unsatisfying, but I still see no way out. Yet I still maintain that I will not actually physically cheat on my wife, no matter how bad things get between us and in terms of the family dynamic in general.
Boy this comment didn’t age well. Only 24 hours later, I find out LO #2 is seeing someone. I know this is entirely illogical, but I am absolutely heartbroken and raging with jealousy. I knew this day would come, and I told myself I would be alright with it, but in the end I wasn’t. Sure, the limerence isn’t as strong as it was a year ago, and I still stand by my comments about transference being harm reduction in my case, but who am I kidding? I’m still besotted with this woman. I am seriously considering no contact at this point.
Sorry VL, that must really hurt. I have been through that with two previous LOs when I was much younger.
Remind yourself that this pain is only temporary, it will soon pass if you let it. You will be fine. For me it lasted 2 weeks or so before reducing quickly. I generally avoided LO for that time but we were good friends and continued to be afterwards. So maybe a temporary NC or LC might help you. And as DrL always says, try to use that time purposefully, to build internal or external resources for yourself so you are not dependent on LO for happiness. Probably teaching my granny to suck eggs there but worth saying anyway!
Wishing you well.
Thanks Allie. The guy LO #2 is seeing is from out of town anyway. Because of that, I imagine I won’t be seeing her for the next couple of weeks or so at least, so that will likely help. Already I am feeling better than I was a couple of days ago when I first found out. Maybe this will turn out to be a blessing in disguise and help me to fully and completely get over LO #2?
I suspect you will still have a soft spot for her but I reckon the loss of hope will dial down the limerence dramatically. Certainly did for me.
“Question for the coffeehouse patrons: have you ever used transference for good or ill as a strategy for beating unwanted limerence?”
This is a good question. Dorothy Tennov seems to suggest in her book that (a) a limerent can only have one limerent object at a time and (b) transference to a new limerent object is only possible when a limerent episode is in its very early days i.e. before crystallisation has occurred and the emotional gates have slammed shut, or at the very end i.e. the obsession with Person A is basically over, so Person B gets to be “in the romance race” too with a fair chance of winning.
I personally agree with Tennov’s observations, although I’ve questioned the “one LO at a time” assertion many times. I’ve questioned the latter because I find many, many people physically attractive, and I’m very drawn to good looks.
I now believe I’ve only had one LO/LE in my life. However, I’ve experienced fleeting physical attractions or “crushes” on numerous human beings, and some of these crushes took place even during the high-water mark of my desire for LO. Entertainingly, all these “crushes” reminded me of my LO in some way. It’s like every man I found attractive more or less started resembling my LO. I wasn’t falling in love with folk because they were individuals, and markedly different to LO. Everything and everyone in my life – even exciting new crushes – still revolved around LO, evoked LO, took on qualities of LO. (This might be a good argument for still-limerent persons to avoid the dating scene until they’re feeling a little less obsessed).
I think Tennov’s take on transference has helped me make sense of my own relationship history. (I basically have no real-life relationship history, in hindsight, because my long-lasting fantasy bond with LO was apparently too engrossing!!) My limerence never sufficiently “waned” for transference to be possible. I always wanted the one man, just the one man. Everyone else was, um … irrelevant? Even a real-life flesh-and-blood partner was less interesting to me during limerence than the fantasy of LO, and I was completely single at the time!! 😛
I actually tried to date “someone legitimate” (i.e. someone available and non-confusing) at the height of my limerence for my unavailable/confusing LO, and let’s just say that the dating did not go well… (I lasted three whole weeks).
Long story short, I started having nightmares about the person I was seeing, and felt physically ill around him. There was absolutely nothing wrong with my date, by the way, either morally or physically. This spontaneous “aversion response” I believe was completely irrational. I think my lovesick brain just found the idea of an alternative love interest unacceptable. Revulsion for all alternative potential partners ensued, even though no one I encountered was objectively “revolting”…
When dipping my toe in the dating world, I felt like I was cheating on my LO, who I wasn’t actually with, and had never been with. I felt as if I was breaking some unwritten ancient law, and not being true to myself. My limerent brain was sabotaging my dating life, in other words!! I couldn’t move on emotionally from LO even though I was “going through the motions” of having a fun social life.
I’m not trying to offend anyone in what I write here, by the way. I’m merely trying to describe what happens when the human brain “locks” onto a singular focus, which may be a person, and refuses to let go. Perhaps we as a society need to delve more deeply into the power of fantasy to shape human aspirations, especially when that fantasy is based on and sometimes reinforced by reality?
This, to me, is the very essence of limerence: a fantasy that feels like real life, and even ends up being mistaken for real life by the limerent until the limerent “wakes up” from the beautiful, beautiful dream. I think limerence is an all-consuming, uncontrollable desire for a deep emotional attachment to a single person (LO) who has or who is perceived as having a “high mate value” by the limerent. The limerent wants to foster closeness with LO above all else. 😛
Is this the Sammy of yore? 🙂 Where have you been?
My experience mirrors yours. I was hyper-focused on LO to the exclusion of any other possibilities. (But unlike you, I am not attracted to that many people. I mean, I find other people attractive, but the feelings usually don’t rise to the level of “I am going to get off my butt and do something about it.” The interest isn’t strong enough. It’s just eye candy to ogle. :)) I went on a handful of dates during my LE. I had no real interest. I did starting dating someone briefly in about the middle part of my LE, but he was only existed in terms of his connection to LO. They were friends, and, yes, I dated him to make LO jealous. And, yes, revulsion is a good term. I don’t know how I got through it, particularly sexually. I started to detach myself and thought I would try new things/techniques that I could use when I finally got my hands on LO. I was delusional. I was NEVER going to get my hands on LO. I was able to date someone and see him as a whole person, separate from LO, once I got to the end of the LE. Was he like LO? Not in terms of personality but not much better in terms of flim-flammy, non-committal behavior. So I was repeating the situation, minus the limerence. Just a strong crush that was exponentially easier to get over. What I mean is … this guy is what I call an “ineligible. ” Not suitable for anything serious. What’s ironic is that some of the one-off dates I had during the LE were with “eligibles.” Two I know went on to marry other women. I wasn’t surprised. I could sense they were “on the market.” I almost think that their being eligible diminished their value in my mind. No challenge. No barriers. Too clingy. Too obvious. I write this all in hindsight, of course.
Oh hey, nice to see you on here again !
Oof, every thing you wrote rings true to me. One LO in my life, except that I did have a relationship with him and it was mutual limerence that ended mega badly.
Even with zero contact for the last 1.5 years and with seeing LO as poison, and mostly hoping I never see him again, my brain still feels sick and locked in. I have been unable to go on so much as a single date. It doesn’t keep me up at night or any thing, I do not feel the need to have a partner, but it worries me how long this obsession is taking to subside. I have found some men – very – attractive but the idea of physically or emotionally being with them feels somewhat revolting and like you said like it would be cheating.
It is completely ridiculous but it is also very real, and I am aware of it enough to have the integrity to not date any one right now and hurt them. Trying to “transfer” at this point feels like it would be useless but also just really selfish, hurting another person to hide from my own sickness.
So I am determined to get better the good way, purposeful living and all. It is hard but it feels like the only real and decent way forward.
Damn, the “emotionally sabotaging my current relationship” – part sounds highly familiar.
Neither my Ex nor my current partner are bad in any objective way – but at some point, my mind and my feelings have been completely sabotaging the relationship. Always with a “you know, it’s been many years – but maybe LO likes you now?” thought in the back of my mind, as soon as any small thing was amiss.
Transference has worked for me lately to break away from a person who I needed to get away from, because he had strong narcissistic traits. I was in a situation which was destroying my physical health. (I’m so grateful to Dr. Ramani!)
But I didn’t transfer my love to another person, instead I connected with my inner companion, call it guardian angel, spirit guide, an old soul from a past life or whatever. Using my imagination, I can feel the unconditional love that this being has for me. And I’m also beginning to love myself more, which seems quite miraculous to me. In time I’m hoping to become immune to seeking love outside of myself, out of an inner loneliness, which I believe has been causing the limerence phenomemon for me.
Maybe I can eventually meet someone at eye-level and connect slowly and in a healthy way before deciding to risk another close attachment.
“Transference depends on kindling that glimmer for a new LO, as a way of stealing fuel from the old LO.“
I used transference effectively. I was in the darkest stage of limerence for my LO#2. I was drowning in intrusive thoughts and uncertainty. That LE was miserable; it was the LE that brought me to this website. One of Dr. L’s articles mentioned transference and I was desperate enough to try it. I noticed that a likable acquaintance had begun to show me attention and I made the conscious decision to lean into the relationship with him. It blossomed into a lovely friendship and a mild LE for me. Things are going quite well with my now LO#3. He is very attentive so there’s no uncertainty and I made a conscious effort to minimize fantasies about him so the intrusive thoughts are minimal. I am fortunately able to maintain a friendship with LO#2 now as well. I also channel all that sexual energy into my relationship with my SO which is working nicely. It appears to be a win for everyone.
Here is an update for anyone who is considering transferring their LE to a new LO. It is still working. The new LE is very mild and I frequently question if I have limerence for him or if it is just a friendship.
I didn’t consciously try to transfer my limerence, but apparently I did – and got rid of it!
I’ve had a fully blow limerence for a former study mate 9 years ago. I’ve often thought that I was over her, had healthy relationships, was living purposefully – but in dark moments or when there were problems in my relationship, yearning for LO was back.
A few months ago, a very attractive woman approached me while I was out abroad in a club. We’ve been getting along really well, I liked her personality (also her type, INFPs who learned to be outgoing are my favorite), I kissed her and we’ve been texting a lot after that.
At some point, I told my GF and cut contact. After I broke up with my GF, I contacted her again and LO2 told me very clearly that she doesn’t want to have anything to do with me, isn’t interested and doesn’t want me to contact her.
During the whole time: No thoughts about LO1. It’s been a mess overall and I’ve been feeling horrible – but through transference + extinction, it seems like my limerence is gone.
The problem with LO1 was that she used to be my best friend and made a very powerful subconscious gesture after which I got the fully own LE. So I wasn’t able to let go of the thought that at some point we’ll meet again and she’d love be ’cause she’s my soul mate/ twin flame/ yadda yadda 😀
I tried transference a few months back. 25 years ago, before I met my SO, I was in a short but intense love affair with a young lady from another country. We were both quite taken with each other but I was never fully limerent for her. I actually ended up choosing my wife over her due to basic convenience, my wife wasn’t 3000 miles away. But once Facebook came into existence in about 2010 we reconnected and had some correspondence over that year. By then she was married also with a kid and eventually a few months later the correspondence fizzled. She has since divorced, and I am still married.
So about 6 months back when I started to feel the turmoil of my current LE I reached back out to her to say hi and to see if she wanted to talk again. My main goal in this was to transfer my feelings of infatuation from my current LO whom I have to coexist with a few days a week to someone who I know I have had romantic feelings for but who is not in proximity to me.
Well, she acknowledged my initial message and said it was nice to hear from me. But when I messaged back a longer update on life a few days later she ghosted me. I did message her to wish her a happy birthday a few weeks back, and she responded with a heart emoji, but she has not conversed with me at all. I have decided to let it lie at this point.
I should say, this was a purely selfish thing for me to do, because I was looking only to better my situation and LE without consideration of how it may affect this other woman. Don’t feel particularly proud of it.
I transferred from my original LO to another girl. That was actually a brief romance, but I lost interest. I then transferred to yet another girl, but that was a dead end too. Both these new LOs were better propositions than the original LO (I at least stood a chance). But now, with every other girl out of the picture, my original LO is still there, glimmering away. Except now, she’s been a friend throughout my other disastrous romances. She watched me courting the other girls, encouraged me in those relationships even.
My feeling for her is burning like a low flame but about to burst, except now she feels even more precious to me because of our friendship. I don’t want to lose her, but I don’t want to be longing for her the way I was with no hope at all.
I have been using a form of transference to, at a minimum, suppress more distressing feelings for my LO. My LO is a woman who I am highly physically and emotionally attracted to but does not show me much reciprocal attention and who I view as a bit relationally immature and closed off. As a result LO can be quite frustrating to me a lot of the time causing me limerent distress. There is another woman I work with who is quite opposite; she is relationally savvy and considerate, and I have struck up a nice friendship with her. I don’t have burning desire for this woman like I do for LO, but I find that I have come to quite appreciate her friendship and attention and do genuinely seek it out.
Our friendship has grown to the point that when I am away from LO and this other woman my baseline thoughts are about 50-50 between them which I find more soothing to me. Thoughts of this other woman are of the warm friendship variety and not romantic which is comforting.
When I am around LO and this woman, unfortunately LO dominates my thoughts. I am hoping this can change over time as well.
It’s an interesting strategy to try to transfer limerence onto someone else, but do it in a more friendship nature. I don’t think I can fully do it, I just don’t have romantic inclinations for this woman like I do LO, but it has become a nice relief and distraction from LO.
As a odd side note, most men would probably find this other woman more attractive than my LO. She is quite objectively beautiful…but, limerence is strange and LO just has that something special to me.
Think of it this way:
You have a finite amount of headspace. As you eliminate your LO from your head, something else will fill the void. Nature abhors a vacuum, even if it’s in your head.
The trick is what you fill the void with. If it’s purposeful, contributes to your happiness, and doesn’t come at the expense of someone else, it’s probably a good thing.
However, what fills the void when you start getting your LO out of your head may not always be a good thing. If that happens, at best, you’ve swapped one thing for another and you could make things even worse.
That’s one reason I’ve never been a big fan of transference. To me it’s like swapping heroin for methadone. It might help but you’re still an addict.
Yes transference is like swapping heroine for methadone. I transferred a year ago. Now I get exposed to my “heroine” frequently, but I am not tempted by him. I am slowly coming off my “methadone” and I think I will be finished with this ridiculous phase soon. I still appreciate the awakening that LO2 sparked in me. And I appreciate the good influence that LO3 has been on me and my family. Limerence has its benefits.
“Limerence has its benefits.”
After spending 5 years on LwL, the caveat is “Limerence can have it’s benefits.” I’ve seen too many stories of bad outcomes to say that “Limerence has its benefits.” For several posters, limerence contributed to a lot of unhappiness and tangible consequences.
I realize it’s quibbling over semantics. I came through my LEs better than I went into them but I’ve always said that was more accident than design. Limerence can be a vehicle toward Self-enlightenment but I doubt any would pick it if they had a choice. Too much of how an LE turns out is outside the limerent’s control.
I don’t see it as cynical or black and white as you do. I might agree in general, removing LE altogether and not transferring is the most preferable solution, but not all situations are the same and a lot of LE seems to require managed nuance.
In my situation, I cannot go NC with LO, which would be my preferred method of removing limerence if possible. So I have some LC tactics I use. But I have found this transference ‘light’ method to also be somewhat effective in providing emotional relief. Yes, there is the risk of transferring one distressful LE to another, but so far I have not felt that and I am well aware of what glimmer feels like.
Managing LE is all about finding daily comfort so I can function well in life. I think it’s perfectly acceptable to find tactics that provide that comfort as long as those tactics contribute to a healthier state of being. For me, being in a friendship and leaning into a friendship with this woman seem to provide healthy comfort over the distressful rumination of LO.
Speedy,
I never said transference can’t be helpful. I’ve been in those “Whatever Gets You Through The Night” [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjWebKavfuI] situations.
I said that I’m not a fan of it. To quibble more over semantics, I think there’s a difference between “displacement” and “transference.” I guess you could think of “transference” as a type of “displacement.”
I’m totally onboard with “displacement.”
I had a very friendly relationship with another female co-worker other than LO too as well. We shared similar sense of humor. I could talk more easily to her. I felt more comfortable around her. I actually shared more personal things with her than I did with LO. In fact before I found this place and knew what limerence was I actually shared with her my feelings/confusion about LO and she was always there to listen.
She quit. Last Friday was her last day. She, unlike LO, didn’t tell me she was quitting. I called down there to her location to ask her something and that’s how I found out she was gone. I felt hurt in a different way than I did when LO told me she was leaving. I felt like I had a connection with her and that we could talk about anything. She would always advise me on LO and my wife and was really down to earth and frank about it. My feelings about her were a lot more stable and safe within the perimeters of her being married and me being married. My wife and her actually talked on the phone with me on several occasions.
Work relationships can be really strange. Like relationships you form with other parents when your kids play together – you know it is a “real” friendship if you still hang out together after the kids no longer want to play, but 80% of the time, it was about the kids even though you were super-friendly, and would have considered each other friends. So maybe for this woman, it was about the work.
People don’t value or treat friendships with enough care, IMHO.
My LO and I both used transference, but differently. After mooning about me for months, he started dating several women in a row with a vengeance! It was quite startling to observe – he isn’t a subtle guy when it comes to courting, but with me he was terribly careful and respectful. I on the other hand, became a social butterfly! I see friend after friend after friend (still do). I don’t consider I am “using” them to forget LO (I’ve been friends with some of them for years and I genuinely care for them). But they do help. It doesn’t get rid of the special place LO has to me (like Lovisa, I actually do feel LO awakened something in me that was very precious and I have carrying forward) but it sure helps with the despair and loneliness to have loads of wonderful, interesting, friendly souls to enjoy meals, culture, and outdoor activities with! In a way, healthier to not expect one person to fulfil every need we have. Is this a form of purposeful living? I don’t know.
By the way, I wouldn’t even know how to begin transferring the feelings of intense attraction, adoration, delight, lust, feels-like-love, etc. to another person. I did not choose to fall for LO. How would I choose to fall for someone else? Could some of you share the mechanics of how you actually did this?
I don’t think I am trying to transfer romantic feelings of love with this woman, that is something at a visceral level I don’t think I can just do. But, once I noticed this woman I seem to be able to have comfortable conversations more often, and once I started to notice her taking more interest in me, I decided to lean into it and reciprocate with her. I think this has created some sort of emotional attachment that can be a distraction from LO. For instance, when LO seems to be aloof and indifferent to me, I can put relational energy into this other person who provides me much more relational satisfaction. She’s just better at showing interest in me and communicating with me. Beyond in office interactions we also have a few common interests that we can lightly text about during off work hours which provides warm feelings on my end as well. Again, all this is non romantic which makes it comfortable on my end.
Thinking on your comment I noticed two things about friendships when it comes to me. 1) I form them and latch on much faster than when I was younger and 2) I seem to form friendships with women easier.
I think of some of my favorite workplace friends over the years and they are mostly all women. Like one lady I worked with that knew I was afraid of spiders and bought this huge stuffed spider on Halloween and put it on my desk lol I’ve always been able to keep things professional but friendly and fun with female co-workers.
Why I take people leaving my life so hard as I get older I don’t know. I remember when my two childhood friends took a different path than I did in life. They were both older than me so they reached the dating/marriage age before I did. Both of them I was sad to see leave my life but I understood. One got married and moved back to his hometown. The other had an unexpected child.
Maybe that’s what I did with her and LO transference but not the limerence. Just the emotional support I was looking for. I’ve never had a long lasting friendship with anyone since my early 20’s. Everyone moves on. Even my wife’s cousin’s husband who I maintained a great friendship with — go out and have beers at our favorite brewery/bar — for a long time until they moved to New Mexico. It gets harder the older I get. This mid life shit kinda sucks Emily :-/ But I am trying to make the best of it.
Hi Emily, like Speedwagon said, the way to transfer limerence is to lean into the new relationship. When I used transference, I made a list of potential LOs, weeded a few people out, then leaned into contact with the remaining candidates. One of them clearly stood out so I focused my attention on him. It took about a month for the intrusive thoughts of my previous LO to go away. The intrusive thoughts are awful! I was so relieved to get rid of them. And a cool bonus is that I have plenty of contact with my previous LO and I have no symptoms of limerence. Our friendship went back to normal. Whew!
LIS, (noticed the coldness here! I am so good at playing this game btw)
“I didn’t want you to think I forgot about you (I could never!) or that I’m messing you around by not responding for days, but I also have had really limited time today and there’s a lot I want to write to you, so I can’t give you the full reply I want to right now.”
I thought you did! Specially with all the other fantasies you’ve been having on here! While I like Lovisa and her replies. I couldn’t help but feel jealous (a feeling I didn’t know I had till I met LO)! I don’t like the feeling as it makes me feel vulnerable but so is limerence. Please figure this out or I’m going to definitely transfer…
“But I do have a proposal for you… the comments section for this particular blog is probably the highest volume comments section on this whole site, and I’m finding it really hard to find your messages and navigate. So I propose that you and I transfer our conversation to this comments section:
https://livingwithlimerence.com/coffeehouse-transferring-limerence/
It’s a topic of interest to both of us, and the comments section has way less traffic so it’ll be a lot easier to keep up with each other. What do you say? Join me for a date on the transferring limerence comments page?”
How can I say no to a date proposal from a 6’3 handsome man… I mean I was just rejected by a 5’8 so my self esteem is not that great! I did however tell him not to flatter himself as I was asking for the tickets anyways 🙂
Did I make it to the right place? This website is painful. Why can’t it be like Facebook?
“PS – your baseball team was really good back when they had Verlander and Mad Max, but I guess that was almost 10 years ago now… (did I get it right this time?)”
Yup! Smart guy… I’m not into bball so I had to Google it to make sure. Even limerence didn’t get me interested in this particular hobby of his 🙂
“PPS – I’ll tell you what time zone I live in if you tell me what language you speak… deal?”
With all the other info I gave, this would be a dangerous one! Let’s see if I can think of a creative way to share it!!! I think you’re mostly in the southern area…
To my special friend L&C,
(how’s that for warm yet still ambiguous about what you mean to me?)
Yes, you’ve arrived in the right destination for our date! Here are some flowers I brought you 💐 . Can I tell you that you look lovely today?
I think we’ll find this to be a nice quiet and cozy section of this website where we can carry on getting to know each other and perhaps transfer a bit of our limerence away from people we have contact with in real life and onto someone we’ll never actually meet, so much safer! And interesting that you felt jealousy reading my interactions with other women on here… perhaps the transference thing is actually working? I wonder if I would similarly feel jealous if you were corresponding warmly with one of the other guys on here… but anyway, don’t worry – I might chat with a lot of people on here, but you’re my favorite (shh, don’t tell anyone! 🤫)
Anyway, I still owe you a full reply to your last long message to me, because I have a lot of thoughts about stuff you shared and also owe you an updated about my own LO and my emotional state, but that isn’t going to be right now because my SO will be home pretty soon. But soon, I promise!
For now, I’ll tell you that I actually ran in the morning today! Maybe you’re changing me already 😊, or maybe we’re having a heat wave here and I had to do my run before the temps went up over 100. Or maybe a little of both.
And I’ll tell you that it’s about 1:30pm here right now…
Probably good to keep me in suspense for a bit about your native language. It’s good to make me wonder about you. Maybe you can drop little hints here and there but make me work for it. I’ll tell you that my current LO spoke Spanish before English, and my previous LO spoke Gujarati and Hindi before learning English. So I do like multilingual LOs!
Anyway, I gotta go for now, but I promise you the long detailed reply that you deserve, either tonight or tomorrow depending on when I have the uninterrupted time. In the meantime, you might enjoy the reply I left for Speedwagon on another section – I included some stuff about entropy and nuclear decay, no doubt inspired by you 😘
Con mucho cariño,
Li2CO3
👻
Dear Lost and Confused,
Ok, I finally have some time to sit down and write you the long message that I’ve been wanting to write. I’ve not been ghosting you!! But… I think we are highlighting some of the unique joys of being in a limerent relationship with a married person. For example, you will always come after my SO – so if, for example, I spend the whole weekend with SO with very little alone time, you will just have to wait patiently (or impatiently) to hear from me. And of course, since we’re not actually exclusive, you’ll also get to watch me interact with a bunch of other people as well. Isn’t this fun!!
But I’m happy that we’re together here now on our date on the Transference page. Oh, did you notice we’re not alone? Don’t worry, it’s just as if we’re participants on some reality tv show. Didn’t you always want to be reality-tv famous?!? Just act naturally and ignore the tv cameras, you’ll get used to it eventually. And don’t worry, I don’t think our ratings are that good, so I doubt there’s more than a couple dozen people watching from home 😀
So a few thoughts about your last post about your LO…
I don’t think his comment about only using the word love with his wife was a rejection per se. I think rejection would have been “no I don’t love you”. His answer was brilliant, in my mind anyway, because he made it clear that loving you just isn’t an option – not because he rejects you (I think it’s pretty clear he does have feelings for you) but because he just won’t let himself go there with someone who isn’t his wife. It’s like if I have a dinner party and I ask my friend if they liked the pork chops I cooked, and they say “sorry I don’t eat pork because of my religion”. They’re not rejecting my pork chops. They might have passed the pork chops in the buffet line, thought they looked and smelled delicious, maybe their mouth watered a bit and they thought about how delicious they might taste, but they would never ever consider actually tasting one because it would violate their deepest beliefs and values. That’s not a rejection of me as the cook of those pork chops, it’s just an expression of a boundary based on strongly held values. I think your LO is a very good man.
Interesting question about self control. I think there are 2 different types of self control – the kind that makes you do things that are good for you (like running in the winter) and the kind that prevents you from doing things that you shouldn’t (like touch LO’s shoulder). I find the first type pretty easy and the second type pretty hard. It sounds like for most of your life, you’ve actually done well with both types, but now suddenly you’re really struggling to deny yourself something that you really want but know you shouldn’t have. You say that you used to enjoy rejecting other men’s advances, that it made you feel powerful. But now suddenly, you’re struggling so hard to resist this one particular man, even though by all accounts he isn’t the most attractive man that you’ve ever been around. So what is it about this particular man, at this particular point in your life? How much does it have to do with him at all, vs how much does it have to do with you and your own needs, vs how much does it have to do with the state of your marriage and your feelings for your SO? I think that’s one of the biggest questions for you to dig into as your continue to analyze what this experience means for you.
Now a little about me (it’s funny, you’re just like my real life LO, I always just want to hear about her and she insists that we spend more time talking about me and my issues). So anyway, I’m actually doing pretty good right now, better than I expected honestly. I certainly suffered some pangs last week when she basically told me she needed a break from me while she processed some stuff in her own life. I actually really hate that she withdraws from me when she’s going through hard things – it’s like “how can I really be an important part of your life if you shut me out from half of it?” I don’t want to just be the guy she talks to when she’s happy; I want to be her guy all the time! But I think I’m understanding better now why she might withdraw when she’s depressed and why contact with me during bad times might actually make her feel worse rather than better.
So I’m really just working on acceptance right now. I’ve come to accept that nothing I do can make her want to be close to me when she’s withdrawn, but if I mess up I can definitely push her away. The best way for me to get more closeness with her is to just play it cool, let her know I’m here for her anytime, but then just wait for her to come back to me when she’s ready and stifle all my anxious tendencies until then.
Today I saw her at work a couple of times, briefly, just exchanged pleasantries and smiles around other people, and I did send her one text this morning just to say good morning and it was nice to see her, and she responded with a friendly “good morning! 😊” but didn’t continue any more conversation so I just left it alone.
I’m trying to think big picture, play the long game as they say. I want (or at least I still think I want) to be part of her life forever. So I’m trying to change my perspective to the bigger picture – if I’m thinking about wanting to be in her life somehow for the next 40-50 years, does it really make a difference if we don’t talk for a couple of weeks here and there? I do still feel optimistic that we’ll have more warm interactions in the future. And if we don’t, we’ll, that’ll hurt but I’ll survive, I feel like I’ve already been through the worst of it last time she broke up with me when ii really did think it was over forever.
Here’s a few quotes that have helped me this week:
“If you love someone, let them go. If they return to you, it was meant to be”
(multiple attributions)
“act of things and you will ruin them. Grasp for things and you will lose them. Therefore the sage acts with inaction and has no ruin, lets go of grasping and has no loss.”
– Tao Te Ching
“I would leave you alone
It’d be hard, but I’d find a way
Cause I know that you know
Where my love stays…
And I don’t need you for my joy
I’ve already found mine
I found it in the way I breathe
The way I keep time
I only want you by my side
To share this love
Feel the rhythm ride the tide
And rise above
I want you to want me around“
-Lukas Nelson, Want me Around (a song I’m listening to daily)
All good quotes for anxious limerants, no?
And finally, this correspondence with you really has been helping! I think about you and wonder about you, and check this site a few times a day just to see if you wrote to me… you would actually make a really good LO for me – you had a difficult childhood and struggle with depression so you activate my rescue complex, your SO is prone to angry outbursts and has hurt you so you trigger my protective instincts, you’re attractive and athletic, you’re smart and accomplished, you’re a good mom, you’re funny and kinda quirky and weird but in a good way, and you’re not shy about expressing interest in me. Yeah, I’d say you have all the ingredients of a good LO for me… good thing we’re 3 time zones apart 😀
Adios for now,
LiS ❤️
Well, hello my friend,
“I think we are highlighting some of the unique joys of being in a limerent relationship with a married person. For example, you will always come after my SO – so if, for example, I spend the whole weekend with SO with very little alone time, you will just have to wait patiently (or impatiently) to hear from me. And of course, since we’re not actually exclusive, you’ll also get to watch me interact with a bunch of other people as well. Isn’t this fun”
Thank you for your time and reply! I definitely understand the fact that you have an SO and she comes first (I’m not thrilled about it) yet when it comes to all the other interaction, I can’t help but feel jealous when my LO is wasting time with another person.
It’s hard to explain it. Yes, I am number 2 but not 3,4, etc… I did tell him that I’m not okay with being number 2 yet again showing hypocrisy as here I am still interacting with him despite the fact, I am number 2.
Do you feel jealous? I can try and interact with others here. the problem I’m an awkward introvert, so the idea of a group overwhelms me (I do put a good show though when out and about, the benefits of growing in an abusive environment where the outside world wasn’t supposed to know what’s going inside your home) ….
I find myself trying so hard to get LO to be jealous. Apparently, DAs (I’ve learned so much about DAs in the last month or so) don’t feel jealous. Yet his comments sometimes indicate jealousy like telling me that the IT will be sitting next to the ticket seats he gave me to the baseball game (I don’t think so…). I’m not sure why I’m obsessed with getting him Jealous, maybe it’s the love for a challenge since he doesn’t show emotions easily…. It’s childish and immature but here I am.
My rational brain can analyze and plot all kind of graphs (like the ones you explained in your other reply….I loved your analysis btw, I was walking and wanted to go home and plot it on excel, did I really inspire it though? serious question!!!!)
“But I’m happy that we’re together here now on our date on the Transference page. Oh, did you notice we’re not alone? Don’t worry, it’s just as if we’re participants on some reality tv show. Didn’t you always want to be reality-tv famous?!? Just act naturally and ignore the tv cameras, you’ll get used to it eventually. And don’t worry, I don’t think our ratings are that good, so I doubt there’s more than a couple dozen people watching from home 😀”
Lol, you are a great writer. Funny and sweet at the same time. I suck at writing and so is LO. Thanks for the compliment as well. I did tell LO that he’s cheap with compliments (he said he agrees!!!!). Like I’ve gotten three compliments in the last year aside from (awesome-work related stuff). One was that I look 29 :), another is that I’m the best they hired and could do a better job than the department leader (him, He’s not my boss though) and one was as a joke that he wants me all to himself hence why he didn’t’ get let me teach with another guy (he said it sarcastically), at the time I said so no divorce in which he agreed. This was back in December before we even knew we had feelings for each other. One time I was wearing a beautiful outfit (I love fashion). Everyone complimented me (including strangers), you know what he said to me? oh your slide color matches your dress, that’s it… nothing else!!!! I’m not used to men like him, so that’s part of the problem. SO compliments me but mostly for one specific motive 😉
“I don’t think his comment about only using the word love with his wife was a rejection per se. I think rejection would have been “no I don’t love you”. His answer was brilliant, in my mind anyway, because he made it clear that loving you just isn’t an option – not because he rejects you (I think it’s pretty clear he does have feelings for you) but because he just won’t let himself go there with someone who isn’t his wife. It’s like if I have a dinner party and I ask my friend if they liked the pork chops I cooked, and they say “sorry I don’t eat pork because of my religion”. They’re not rejecting my pork chops. They might have passed the pork chops in the buffet line, thought they looked and smelled delicious, maybe their mouth watered a bit and they thought about how delicious they might taste, but they would never ever consider actually tasting one because it would violate their deepest beliefs and values. That’s not a rejection of me as the cook of those pork chops, it’s just an expression of a boundary based on strongly held values. I think your LO is a very good man.”
I mostly meant the “date/joke” proposal when I called to ask him if he wants the tickets. He is a good man but recently I’ve been feeling angry. Like why he is enabling me? and when I ask him if he’s struggling, his answer is not after disclosure. Here I am struggling and he’s getting whatever he can get from this. Yes, not the PA but the support and adoration of a young woman…..
His comment about love/wife hurts a lot, actually it turns me off despite how strong the limerence is. Yet, your explanation is logical. Funny using pork as an example as I don’t eat pork for religious reasons, so I totally understand where you’re coming from. Also, his comment about him being open to switch religions after me staying that religion to me is more important than my marriage matches what you’re saying in a way.
So, after our phone call I felt pretty down actually! It’s like yes, the highs are good, but the lows are horrible. I even have a reminder on my addiction app “It’s not worth the high”…. while talking on the phone. I mentioned a science event that my daughter was a volunteer at (she was being very cute and funny with the scientist running the event) and sent him a video of it. He watched and then disappeared till last night.
Sure enough, he initiated by sending me a stupid article about why he should run on a treadmill (I’ve been trying to convince him to run outdoor). We obviously texted back and forth, then he asked me a question about working out. I found him the answer online, he actually replied by “wow, if anyone can find it, it’ll be you”. Yes, not only initiated but complimented me as well. Then half an hour later he initiated again with a separate topic. I was in shock. Like is he drunk or something?!!! Today I texted him after my run, he’s back to short replies then disappeared again.
Here’s what I’m thinking. This guy is painful. He gets close then freak out and hide. Then comes back again. It’s an exhausting cycle. The only way around it is for me to stop initiating completely. It’s hard as hell but I will be messaging you instead of him whenever I feel the urge to initiate. As long as I don’t initiate, I don’t feel the horrible low.
For boundaries, I just have to remember the rejection 🙂 I actually asked him not to dress up so nicely next meeting 😉 and not to smell so good lol!!!
For the ruminating/daydreaming, therapy should help with that and also going for walks. I just went for a walk at night, and it feels so much better than sitting and dreaming about him. The problem is I drive a lot and it’s hard not to zone out when driving. I feel like I’m in survival mode most of my days. I want my happiness back….
“Interesting question about self control. I think there are 2 different types of self control – the kind that makes you do things that are good for you (like running in the winter) and the kind that prevents you from doing things that you shouldn’t (like touch LO’s shoulder). I find the first type pretty easy and the second type pretty hard. It sounds like for most of your life, you’ve actually done well with both types, but now suddenly you’re really struggling to deny yourself something that you really want but know you shouldn’t have. You say that you used to enjoy rejecting other men’s advances, that it made you feel powerful. But now suddenly, you’re struggling so hard to resist this one particular man, even though by all accounts he isn’t the most attractive man that you’ve ever been around. So what is it about this particular man, at this particular point in your life? How much does it have to do with him at all, vs how much does it have to do with you and your own needs, vs how much does it have to do with the state of your marriage and your feelings for your SO? I think that’s one of the biggest questions for you to dig into as your continue to analyze what this experience means for you.”
I don’t have a good answer to this question. I’m hoping therapy will help. I think the timing of the cancer and meeting LO the same week we got the cancer diagnosis.
We can’t deny that regardless of the other circumstances we have a great chemistry and we’ll probably be a good couple if he can work on his DA which I think he is as I see a change…. His personality traits are great despite the fact we have no future. My marriage with SO has always been this way. He’s great when he’s calm. He’s actually supportive to my dreams, very generous. Yet I don’t feel emotionally fulfilled. Its’ mostly about sex for him. He can also be angry, arrogant and self-centered. He’s never wrong. LO always blames himself, such a difference….
“Now a little about me (it’s funny, you’re just like my real life LO, I always just want to hear about her and she insists that we spend more time talking about me and my issues)”
Because you’re so smart and interesting….
“So anyway, I’m actually doing pretty good right now, better than I expected honestly. I certainly suffered some pangs last week when she basically told me she needed a break from me while she processed some stuff in her own life. I actually really hate that she withdraws from me when she’s going through hard things – it’s like “how can I really be an important part of your life if you shut me out from half of it?” I don’t want to just be the guy she talks to when she’s happy; I want to be her guy all the time! But I think I’m understanding better now why she might withdraw when she’s depressed and why contact with me during bad times might actually make her feel worse rather than better.”
Yes, I totally understand wanting to be there for the good and bad. You’re a great man yourself. Much better than my LO. After saying no to the date, I said jokingly I’m going to hang up and cry on my own since you’re not big on tears (Like your LO I do check out when I’m going through hard time)…. he said that’s true!!!!!
Ugh, last month I stopped by his office to pick up some papers early morning and he got a text that his son’s friend got into an accident and he’s in critical conditions. LO had tears in his eye. I was there for him (I stayed calm, asked him how I can help. I even offered to take over his task so he can go for a walk. He thanked me) yet now when he senses I’m getting emotional he changes the topic!!!!!! Avoidants are the worst!!!!
So yes, he might have self-control, but you have a heart of gold my friend!!!
“So I’m really just working on acceptance right now. I’ve come to accept that nothing I do can make her want to be close to me when she’s withdrawn, but if I mess up I can definitely push her away. The best way for me to get more closeness with her is to just play it cool, let her know I’m here for her anytime, but then just wait for her to come back to me when she’s ready and stifle all my anxious tendencies until then.”
Okay, so we are in the same exact spot! I can plot on excel his texting pattern. It’s my first avoidant experience, but damn they’re so predictable….Few days, cold message out of the blue then warm replies then nothing then all over again!
Part of me wish I have your phone number (I’m not big on phone calls btw) so I can just call/text you whenever I feel the need to text him. You can do the same as well. Giving our LO space is good for our mental health. It’s like we sponsor each other?! For now, I’m going to reply here!!!
“Today I saw her at work a couple of times, briefly, just exchanged pleasantries and smiles around other people, and I did send her one text this morning just to say good morning and it was nice to see her, and she responded with a friendly “good morning! 😊” but didn’t continue any more conversation so I just left it alone.”
Right if you can get used to this kind of “friendship” maybe the excitement will die ultimately?!
“I’m trying to think big picture, play the long game as they say. I want (or at least I still think I want) to be part of her life forever. So I’m trying to change my perspective to the bigger picture – if I’m thinking about wanting to be in her life somehow for the next 40-50 years, does it really make a difference if we don’t talk for a couple of weeks here and there? I do still feel optimistic that we’ll have more warm interactions in the future. And if we don’t, we’ll, that’ll hurt but I’ll survive, I feel like I’ve already been through the worst of it last time she broke up with me when ii really did think it was over forever.”
True… Even if we get together with our LOs, will it be as magical as it sounds?! I mean if we learned anything from our SOs, it’s that things don’t stay the same. It’s much better to enjoy a friendship for now! Only if we can stop our limerent brain from going insane…
“Here’s a few quotes that have helped me this week:
“If you love someone, let them go. If they return to you, it was meant to be”
(multiple attributions)
“act of things and you will ruin them. Grasp for things and you will lose them. Therefore the sage acts with inaction and has no ruin, lets go of grasping and has no loss.”
– Tao Te Ching
“I would leave you alone
It’d be hard, but I’d find a way
Cause I know that you know
Where my love stays…
And I don’t need you for my joy
I’ve already found mine
I found it in the way I breathe
The way I keep time
I only want you by my side
To share this love
Feel the rhythm ride the tide
And rise above
I want you to want me around“
-Lukas Nelson, Want me Around (a song I’m listening to daily)
All good quotes for anxious limerants, no?”
LOL!!!! I have a question for you: Have you ever initiated the “break up” with LO? I feel if I was to do so, he will disappear! I’m too scared to try!
“And finally, this correspondence with you really has been helping! I think about you and wonder about you, and check this site a few times a day just to see if you wrote to me… you would actually make a really good LO for me – you had a difficult childhood and struggle with depression so you activate my rescue complex, your SO is prone to angry outbursts and has hurt you so you trigger my protective instincts, you’re attractive and athletic, you’re smart and accomplished, you’re a good mom, you’re funny and kinda quirky and weird but in a good way, and you’re not shy about expressing interest in me. Yeah, I’d say you have all the ingredients of a good LO for me… good thing we’re 3 time zones apart 😀”
LOLOLOL…. SAME HERE! I feel like this might help us actually! we both work out, so we know that any new exercise won’t help get us to a similar level of euphoria as limerence does. The only way around it is to open up to another LO and put someone else on a pedestal in hope that one day there won’t be room for the original LO.
Thanks for the compliments, I’m not sure I’m as attractive as I made it sound though…. I’m also not sure about the intelligence part, I work hard ;)!…. Your sense of humor, and sweetness make you the prefect candidate!!!
Night, night my friend! I would love to write some Spanish, but I know none ;)!
Holy Crap LiS, are you for real? This is freaking hilarious. I lmao at your attraction to multilingual LOs.
Now don’t you go getting attracted to my LO either because she speaks fluent Spanish too.
You know, es atractiva.. 😉
Bro, I would never ever ever go near your LO! That would be such a violation of the limerent code… a friend’s LO is strictly off limits!
I did have an idea for you… you need positive activities to fill your time and take your mind off your LO. What about signing up for some Spanish classes? There are a couple of websites like italki and preply where you can do online video 1:1 Spanish classes with tutors all over the world. Maybe finding a tutor and signing up for a few classes a week would be a nice activity for you? And I’ll tell you… a lot of the tutors son muy atractivas…
Anyway, nice talking with you but now you gots to go, I’m trying to have a date over here. But I’ll have a post for you later on the “finding purpose when languishing” page – I’ve got some more thoughts for your situation to share a little later…
Have a good day!
LiS
https://livingwithlimerence.com/finding-purpose-when-languishing/
My wife had a friend I met when I first came to her hometown. She made me meundo (I hope I spelled that right) and that young lady would talk in Spanish/Mexican in the same sentence as English. And she talked like Speedy Gonzales. And I’m Momma I can’t understand her. I’m a yankee all I know is cervesa. Meundo is good though. She was a helluva cook.
This is very sweet :-). Anyone fancy taking on my limerence too? Only people I am never going to meet in real life may apply.
Hi C is for Cat,
I think you get to choose. I feel like Mj is a good match for you.
Choosing – what a luxury eh?!
I am a nice guy for the most part, C..
Plus since you have Cat in your name, you must like Cats. I have 2 Cats I would like to give you.
Lovisa playing matchmaker??
Hmmm 🤔
I might be a little toxic right now.
I have one cat. I think my dog’s head would explode if I brought any more home. 🙂
“ Plus since you have Cat in your name, you must like Cats. I have 2 Cats I would like to give you.”
Bearing in mind your earlier comment about your cats, MJ, this made me ‘laugh out loud’ x
Don’t worry, Mj. You have an audience to keep you in check. Now, be nice to C is for Cat.
Good luck guys! This will be entertaining for all of us.
Ok C for Cat, you heard from the peanut gallery. I guess that makes you mine. Are you ready for a depressed, middle aged man, down on his luck, limerent for young, female co workers? I feel like I have nothing more to give you right now, but Ms. Lovisa thinks this is a good idea. You feel like hanging out??
@ frederico,
I’m so not bulls#%@in
either. These Cats are one step away from being put out..
Yep, why not! I’m also middle-aged (urgh, that expression makes me shudder) – only a couple of years younger than you I think – but look a good chunk younger and in the virtual world of LwL I can be anything anyway I suppose! Prone to depression and anxiety, possibly neurodivergent, have relationships with geeky men I love but am not attracted to and am limerent for men who are passionate, flirty and express an interest in me.
C for cat – did you know that my friend MJ used to sing and met his wife through choir, and then was an accomplished organist for years?
MJ – I think you might have a chance, but you gotta stop wallowing… get excited about something so that C for cat can get excited about you! She loves acting and singing… what if you were trying out to be the organist for a local community theater group? Or, perhaps a bit more doable in the short term, what if you bought a keyboard and started playing again at home? I’ll bet she’d be happy to suggest songs for you to learn for her, and she’d appreciate them more than that uncaring LO of yours…
Happy Independence Day!
-LiS
Thanks LiS, Oh interesting! I learned the organ as a teenager (so trendy eh?!) but gave up when I went to university. My lack of coordination and spacial awareness always stymied me anyway.
You know, there is one problem with this whole transference thing – I’m now constantly checking this blog as well as seeing if LO has liked my posts on Facebook etc… 🤣
C for Cat,
I look younger than my 52 years also. Don’t know if I would consider myself geeky, but I probably am acting more middle aged nowadays, than I would like to be. (I hate that term also). I eat too much, fall asleep in my recliner, go to bed.
My life is as unexciting as it sounds. Hence, limerence/chronic depression. Currently waiting to hear back from a new Therapist. Not sure how
I feel about it.
LiS is correct, I do have somewhat of a musical background. I do play the organ, yet not professionally. I never had formal training, just taught myself and because I have a good ear. I was supposed to go to school for music, but it just never happened.
I had a gf right out of high school that wanted to marry me and have a ton of Babies. It scared the be-jesus out of me. I held her off as long as I could. Marrying her some almost 9 years later. We ended up having only 2 kids, thank Christ. My Son is now 23 and my Daughter is 17. Good kids, just make choices I don’t always agree with but that’s what we all do. So guess I can’t lose too much sleep over it.
I haven’t played in about 5 years. I kinda miss it, but just don’t seem to have the time anymore. I work about 11-12 hours a day and help take care of my aging Father who has Parkinsons. Weekends are spent being lazy.
I fell for LO because I was curious and she smiled at me. She’s ended up ruining me. Now I feel like I’m treading water all the time. I’m still crazy over her, but it’s probably because she’s unavailable. What is wrong with me??
MJ,
“What is wrong with me??”
I think you’re bored. Or bogged down with a lot of tasks and work that doesn’t really excite you ? What do you look forward to?
And I’m assuming what happened here (correct me if I’m wrong) is that in walked LO. And then there was something (or someone) to look forward to and be excited by.
Limerence is just sitting that waiting to appear in the doldrums of middle-age. I mean, it’s a distraction and not real. An escape.
I’m really sorry, MJ, it sounds as if you have a huge amount on your plate at the moment. I’m not surprised you don’t have the mental or physical energy for anything else. Maybe don’t beat yourself up too much. Is there anything small you can do to be kind to yourself?
I think Marcia is right in that limerence can grab us when we’re bored, or feeling complacent in a relationship or vulnerable and needy without one (those seems to be it for me). And then the limerence is so bright and shiny that everything else pales in comparison, which makes things even worse. At the moment it doesn’t sound as if there’s anything big you can do but is there something small?
Marcia,
You would be correct about the over-arching reason I am limerent.
LO pretty much fell out of the sky, like the fallen Angel she is and took over my heart. Funny thing is, the first time I saw her prior to LE, I never really gave her a passing thought. Other than just “my, she sure is attractive. But way the hell out of my league…”
When she smiled at me that one time and followed it up with all kinds of eye contact, what was I supposed to do, ignore it?? Hellllll no!!
And its not that my work doesn’t excite me. I really don’t mind what I do. But its being there, in the same place as her. (Or at least close to where she is) I always want to get to her, see her, try anything just to be around her, and it just isn’t possible right now. I miss her so much. But I’m not even in a friendship with her.
So it’s all in my head. That’s the sick part. Except to me, it doesn’t really feel sick. It’s just pathetic. That’s all.
With all that I have going on, I say it’s no wonder limerence works. LO is the perfect escape.
MJ,
“When she smiled at me that one time and followed it up with all kinds of eye contact, what was I supposed to do, ignore it?? ”
Um … yeah. Or do what most people (read: non-limerents) do: enjoy the moment and walk away. It’s a nice moment with a co-worker. No more or no less. If you strip it down to its barest essence, that’s what it is. The rest is in your head.
And you’d be surprised how much time you can waste in limerence land. As your life passes by. I’m like you. I’m not getting any younger. Don’t want to waste any more time and emotional energy on someone who was a very, very small part of my life.
C for Cat,
Hello, thank you for the reply. Sorry if I appear to be a downer. I need to get my act together. Otherwise LiS and Lovisa will probably get on me later about it.
To answer your question, I try not to be all doom and gloom. Most nights after work, I find a quiet place on the other end of the complex, where I go to deflate. It’s close to a small lake and it’s quiet. It’s here I’ll usually write poetry for LO, or I’ll pray, then cry. Sometimes I stay for hours, but it’s helpful to just let it all out. It’s a small pleasure like you said. One of the few I get besides eating. And I don’t want to do too much of that.
It’s crazy what limerence does. Another holiday with food, fun and festivities today and I couldn’t care any less. My birthday and Christmas was the same. I found out LO and myself even share the same birthday. How ironic is that? You think it would have made me happy and maybe it did for like 5 minutes. But then it faded because it was the same week she moved to go work next door. I still haven’t recovered from that.
I had a potential SO in the works, but because she never glimmered for me, I wonder if that’s why I couldn’t get excited. And then I wonder if she would have made me happy enough. I don’t know. Sometimes I think limerence has been a blessing and a curse. A blessing because I think I know what I want in a potential SO, but a curse because if they don’t resemble or glimmer for me like LO, then what’s the point??
Sorry for the rant, I’ll just be quiet and hopefully the audience doesn’t scold me for being in the doldrums.
Hope your holiday was better than mine. Talk to you soon..
Marcia
You gonna tell him and me not see too much in her smile and eye contact? That its all in his head? Us limerents are fine without your no frills practical and hard to swallow advice thank you very much.
Actually we’d be swimming in disarray without it. Thank you Marcia. 🙂 You are a blessing.
Adam,
“You gonna tell him and me not see too much in her smile and eye contact? That its all in his head?”
I didn’t say that was all in his head. It’s called flirtation. I wouldn’t take it too seriously. Often, there’s no intent behind it. Sometimes, but certianly not always. And I’d guess there’s a higher percentage of “not serious” to “serious” flirting.
But turning it into some big thing … that’s in his head, yes. That’s a limerent thing.
But I’m confused … maybe I read his message wrong. Is the one with an SO and kids? Or is he single?
If it’s the former, yes, don’t take it seriously.
If it’s the latter, I’d ask her out. Then he’ll know if it’s serious.
MJ is single. So yeah he has the luxury of perusing his LO if he’d like. Me on the other hand I it would not possible. At least without lots of consequences.
As far as flirting Im clueless. I get told I flirt when Im honest to god just being nice to a lady. Apparently manners and chivalry are flirting in the 21st century. So if LO being nice was misread by me that was either my nativity or limerence.
I guess that means Im safe being with Momma I dont have to worry about dating and flirting. Which is good since flirting with Momma is “thats what she said” jokes lol
Adam,
“MJ is single. So yeah he has the luxury of perusing his LO if he’d like.”
Oh, ok. Sorry. My bad. Then I’d recommend asking her out asap. If there are signs of interest. The worst thing to do is ruminate in the limerence. It just drags it out. Not knowing drags it out.
“As far as flirting Im clueless.”
Well, I’m a woman so I’d only take flirting seriously if the guy made a move or asked me out. That would be the only way to verify intent. If I were a man (and the woman wasn’t making a move or asking me out; and some woman won’t), I’d at least look for repeated flirting. She’s looking for your office after the first interaction, she’s trying to making conversation, she’s hovering a little. I can’t guarantee that means she’s serious, but those are some of the things I would do. I’d try to catch the guy’s attention. 🙂
Othewise, if there’s no intent, I would just enojy the moment … and let it go. That’s what I meant in the earlier post.
MJ – don’t apologise for feeling sad. I haven’t been on here long but it feels like a safe space. Your thinking spot sounds lovely. But I do wonder, with my limited knowledge and pretty laughable ‘do as I say not as I do’ advice, whether sitting alone and ruminating on LO is actually making things worse for you. With my last LO I used to ruminate a lot, sing appropriate songs and cry while walking the dog etc. It made it a lot worse.
This time I’m really trying to stop those thoughts when they come. I use comedy podcasts a lot to stop me thinking about him when I’m not busy working and I shout at myself in my head if it starts. I have a jolly song I sing too – One Brick at a Time from Barnum. It feels very solid and decisive, plus quite apt for my situation. One tiny step at a time.
I haven’t seen my LO for a week and feel better about him, though I’m not kidding myself – I know how excited I feel about seeing him again tonight and how we have to cuddle and kiss in the play. I’m trying to think ‘one brick at a time’ and limit the offstage eye contact as a first step. Luckily we don’t have opportunity to do anything other than eye contact so we’re both hoping we can get this under control before we do again.
I know how black everything feels when you’re depressed, and how impossible it feels to do anything. But could you maybe do something that takes you away from rumination in your down time? Do you have any real-life friends you could talk to? I’ve never been able to talk to any of mine until recently when I shared with a friend and found out she had been in a much worse situation. Just telling someone, and not being judged, helped.
I hope you start to find the joy in life again soon. For me it comes and goes.
Wish me luck for tonight. Maybe I’ll think of you if I’m struggling!
Marcia – I smiled when I read “Well, I’m a woman so I’d only take flirting seriously if the guy made a move or asked me out.”
I’m a woman and the tiniest bit of flirting has me taking it very seriously! That’s my problem – I struggle to read what people actually mean so attribute all sorts of stuff to perfectly innocent things.
C for Cat,
“I struggle to read what people actually mean so attribute all sorts of stuff to perfectly innocent things.”
But you don’t have to. Just pay attention to what the guy does. It really is that simple. If he’s not asking you out or doing something to move the situation forward (or isn’t amenable if you do those things) … he may be flirting with you but I wouldn’t waste time and energy trying to read into it.
Marcia
At just this job in 4 years I have had 6 female co-workers. All of them sweet nice ladies. All of them, including LO, more or less reacted to me in the same manner. Polite, nice and funny. I could talk and joke will all of them. I never felt overwhelmed with them except LO. But in the end, with a clear head now, she never actually treated me different. I don’t think. How is being gracious and polite flirting? How did I misread everything she did with me? I know the limerence. But why her?
“I struggle to read what people actually mean so attribute all sorts of stuff to perfectly innocent things.”
If that were “LO” instead of “people” I could relate. I misread so much from her, when I am usually not that concerned with reading people outside of being professional and/or polite. As long as their is no discord I can handle most all situations. Yet I actually stirred discord in her favor. I don’t seek confrontation, yet at every corner I was ready to for her. If I hadn’t known my boss beforehand he could have easily told me to take a walk or written me up for the way I confronted him on LO’s behalf. (And still do a year later when she comes up in conversation.) I understand what C4Cat is saying at least in regards to LO. Christ I am more coherent and tolerable drunk than on limerence.
Adam,
“How is being gracious and polite flirting?”
It’s not.
” How did I misread everything she did with me? I know the limerence. But why her?”
Idk. Something about her personality triggered you. Or your situation in life.
Thanks Adam, I was going to reply something like “easier said than done” But I see you took care of that and later on down the thread.
Marcia, thank you also for your tip and for clarifying later on down the post. I do wish it was only as easy as you make it sound.
MJ,
“I do wish it was only as easy as you make it sound.”
It kind of is, though. Not necessarily easy to execute but easy to understand the principle. All I can say is … time just ticks away while we’re in limerence limbo. I know. I wasted years. The best thing to do is to make a decsion. Yes, I’m pursuing this or no, I’m not. But once a decision is made, it helps to dismantle the limerence because you can start to move on. It’s certainly not easy to move on, but it can’t happen until a decision is made. And that’s up to the limerent.
Meanwhile, you could be pursuing and dating other women.
Marcia,
I get exactly what you are saying and no, not very easy to execute in my situation. However, I am the one who made the call to pursue. I have probably had countless opportunities
to get something off the ground with LO. But I remain the idiot with a social disability while in her presence. I am like a deer in headlights when I see her. I can only think of a very few times where I felt confident and safe to approach and out of each of those times, she basically hid away or went another direction. I know it would be easier to come right out and ask her if she likes me or not. But since I think I already know the answer to that question, I don’t. Because I love the chase and she’s just beautiful. And fun to look at, and I could go on for days and days and days about her thousands of charms…
I know I sound like a broken record with my story. Of course all the signs are obvious she isn’t interested. Apparently I must like depression. I like beating myself over the head because I’ve been doing it for about a year now and I must Iike it. To the insane asylum I should go..
As for other Women, I must also have a knack for finding the ones who leave me no hope. Both Women I know are acquaintances and I get along with them. They are in their early 30s and both have SOs. One of them leads me to believe she’d like to maybe hang out, but still likes to talk about her 10 year relationship with the guy. I don’t know what to make of it and I don’t want to get into a lot of drama.
Basically what I’m saying is, my options are little to non existent right now. Since these Women are seemingly unavailable, this too is another reason why the insanity of LO is my only great hope at the moment. Which is all really just in my head.
MJ,
I have a friend on the dating sites who is exactly your age and there are plenty of options. And if one of the guys turns out to be flaky after a date or two or even before the first date, she moves onto the next one. She values herself, has boundaries and does not waste her time. I admire her for that.
And two dating tenets that took me an embarrasingly long time to figure out but seem glarlingly obvious:
1.) Stay completely clear of anyone in a relationship;
2.) People who are authentically interested are not opaque, don’t play games and don’t give mixed signals.
If I had just followed those two rules, I’d have saved myself years of unnecessary grief.
Marcia,
That makes sense. I’ll keep it in mind.
Thanks.. 😁
My dear Lost and Confused,
We have so much to discuss! I feel like I could just talk with you forever 😊 (my LO would say variations of that phrase to me a lot – it would always make me feel like we had a special connection and I loved hearing her say it)
Jealousy – what a good topic! You say you want your LO to feel jealousy for you and you don’t know why. My guess is that you want him to be jealous because it would demonstrate to you how strong his feelings are for you, and that you occupy a special place in his mind to the point where it hurts him to think about you caring for another guy. Plus you feel jealous about him, so you want him to feel the same about you – it seems like a major feature of limerence is that we really really want our LOs to reciprocate all of our feelings with the same intensity.
I definitely feel jealous of my LO’s SO. I feel jealous of all the time he gets to spend with her, all of the life he shares with her. Of course jealous that he gets to have sex with her… but also jealous that she wakes up early to make him coffee and pack his lunch before work every day. Recently they took a four day road trip to another state with their kids – I realized she spent more time with him during those 4 days than all of the cumulative time talking with me over the last 6 months. When she came back she told me they spent the whole time arguing, but even so, it made me realize that even though my feelings for her feel so strong and my relationship with her feels so real, it doesn’t even come close to the length and depth of her relationship with her SO and never will. I’ll always be on the periphery of her life and he’s at the center, and that makes me feel very jealous.
She’s told me a few times she feels jealous of my SO. Not often – she tries really hard to only be positive towards my SO and respectful of my marriage. But I’ll admit that those few times she did express jealousy definitely made me feel good…
My LO pretty much keeps to herself at work, and the few people that she is friendly with are women, so I never really see her being warm and friendly with other guys. I know it would make me feel jealous if that did happen. I like watching her be warm and jovial with her girl friends – it brings out her happy and funny side that I just love to be around even if indirectly.
Probably 90% of the workers in our workplace are women, and I’m warm and friendly with many of them on a day to day basis. I don’t know if it makes my LO jealous to see me talking with other women at work. She’s never said so, but I imagine it might. On the other hand, I hope it might make her feel special that out of all the girls at work, she’s the only one that I have those sorts of feelings for and that I have a real relationship with. She knows that she’s the only one that I text with and talk on the phone with (and certainly the only one I’ve professed my love for)
Compliments – I rarely compliment my LO on her physical appearance. I figure she must know she’s beautiful and has probably spent her whole life getting told that by guys who have one motive. I give her a lot of compliments about the person she is on the inside, always telling her what a good person she is, a good mom to her kids, a good friend to me, she has a good heart, she makes me so happy, things like that. A few times I complimented something like her new hairstyle – she seemed genuinely pleased and actually really surprised – one time she lit up with a huge smile, said “you noticed?!?”, smiled some more, shook her head with disbelief, and again said “you noticed!” It makes me thing her SO isn’t very attentive to her that she was so surprised and thrilled that I noticed the new highlights in her hair. And of course I was like “well yeah, I notice everything about you! you look beautiful”
“I loved your analysis btw, I was walking and wanted to go home and plot it on excel, did I really inspire it though? serious question!!!!)”
You didn’t directly inspire the idea for the emotions graph, that’s something I already thought about before I met you. But I notice that recently I’ve been thinking about things like ionic bonding and radioactive isotopes and stuff that I haven’t thought about since my undergrad chemistry classes, ever since I started chatting with a certain woman with a PhD in chemistry…
Anyway, I’m still curious about what you actually want from your LO. Do you think you know? If the genie appeared right now and granted you any wish you could have, what would you ask for? Do you want you and LO to both leave your marriages and get together for real? Do you to stay in your marriage but want a PA with him? Do you want an EA that’s more open and warm that what you have now? Something else?
I need to start wrapping this up to get ready for work (I actually woke up early so I could write to you! Does that make you feel special?). But first, a little about religion, since that sounds like it’s also really important to you.
I’m nominally a Christian – I was raised going to Christian churches off and on, and my family and I are members of a church now. I like the community and the values and I like the good influences on my kids. But I’d say that at heart, I’d describe myself as a universalist/agnostic/humanist.
I use those terms because I actually have no idea that my religion is more or less correct that any other religion, or that any religion is actually correct, and I feel extreme discomfort with any religious ideas like “our faith is the only true faith and everyone else is wrong (or worse, condemned to eternal punishment)”. I mean, I’m a Christian because I grew up in a Christian society and my parents were Christian, so I became one. It’s not like I was a blank slate and undertook a careful and in depth analysis of all the world’s religions and then concluded that mine was correct. Hardly anybody actually does that – we mostly just do what we’re taught and then feel certain that we’re right. I think I’d likely be whatever I was raised with. Fortunately we found a church that’s very open and universalist in its teachings and doesn’t focus on us vs them, but more on good values for living well. For me, the most important things in life are connections with other human beings and being of service to other human beings – that’s why I’d use the term humanist.
For you, am I a week too late to wish you an Eid Mubarak? Or perhaps would it be better for you if I say eid-e shoma mobarak? Or… am I a couple months too early to say g’mar chatima tovah? Or am I missing another religion that doesn’t eat pork?
Have a good day!
LiS ❤️
Dear Lost & Confused,
I wanted to respond to a couple other parts of your last message that I didn’t get to this morning…
“Part of me wish I have your phone number”
You really are a boundary pusher, aren’t you 😉. I mean, if we really wanted to push boundaries… I get to travel once a year for a medical education session, part of keeping up my training. It would be pretty easy for me to arrange the next one to be in your city, I like to go different places each year so it wouldn’t cause any suspicion. Then when I’m there we could meet up, maybe go on some runs, maybe hang out a bit in my hotel room…
“I have a question for you: Have you ever initiated the “break up” with LO? I feel if I was to do so, he will disappear! I’m too scared to try!”
Sort of… I’ve never initiated a full breakup, but I’ve initiated some breaks – like one time in mid January I proposed that we take a break and not talk again until February because our feelings were too high. She agreed to that (but we didn’t make it). Another time I set a boundary that led to her initiating a breakup – we’d been avoiding in-person contact but talking and texting all the time, and then she was saying she wanted to come see me in private again, and I asked her if she felt like it was safe, and she said she couldn’t promise she wouldn’t try something physical but she still wanted to come see me. I told her that as much as I wanted to, I just couldn’t let that happen because it would just be too terrible to do to my wife, and she was really embarrassed that she’d said what she said, and then a couple days later she initiated a breakup that lasted for quite awhile – I think she was both afraid and ashamed.
I’ve been thinking at this time about telling her that I can’t do this up and down thing anymore, that I need to either be in her life all the time or not at all, that it’s not fair to me or my heart to have her keep letting me in and shutting me out. Last month I’d finally come to really accept that it was over between us for good and I’d pretty much made peace with it, but then she got back in touch and was really warm and close again for several weeks, and just when I started to let my guard down again and let myself feel close to her again, then she cut us off again. I don’t know how much more of this I can take! But I’m also scared to make any kind of ultimatum because that might actually mean never talking with her again, which rationally I know would be the best thing for me, but I’m still not ready to do that if I don’t have to. I don’t know… what do you think?
By the way, that proposition I made a minute ago… I would never dream of actually doing that in real life. Well… I might dream of it, but would never actually do it. But I’m curious what you thought when you read it… was your first response to be horrified and know that you would never do something like that? Or did it excite you and make your mind start churning about how we’d pull it off?
I’m curious because your reaction to that might help you to figure out what you really want. Do you really just want LO specifically? Or do you just want to fantasize about men who are unavailable (and therefore safe) due to being dismissive avoidant or thousands of miles away, but you’d never actually want to get involved with someone? Or deep inside, is what you’re craving just to have an affair, whether with LO or LiS or any other man who stimulates something inside you that SO doesn’t, and it isn’t really about LO at all?
The reason I ask is that last month another poster asked me something similar – she told me that I was making it too complicated, over analyzing every little interaction with LO… she said “it’s actually not complicated. It’s pretty simple. You want to have an affair. That’s ok, lots of people want that”. And I had to be like, yeah, you’re right, that’s actually true. Now just because we WANT to do something doesn’t mean we’re actually going to DO it – we have free will and self control and all of that. But knowing what we actually want and being able to name it can actually really help to analyze ourselves and find out what we’re missing and what we need to find.
Anyways, not a lot of answers but a lot of questions… call it food for thought.
Bon appetit,
LiS 😊
LIS,
I have so much to say. The problem is LO initiated yesterday wishing me “happy Independence Day” at midnight, and today “have fun at the baseball game” (not sure what’s going on)!!!!
I’ve been busy with that! I’m going to give you a proper response tonight once I get back to my laptop. One word though: Felt Excited (specially the run part) then Horrified when I read about the hotel room. More later….
L&C – excited and horrified in the space of 2 sentences… this is shaping up to be a memorable date!
Can’t wait to hear all of your thoughts! Something else I’m curious about – what does your SO think about LO texting you at midnight? Or do you keep that hid? I know that for me, late night texts from my prior LO, even though they were all innocent in terms of content, definitely contributed to the issues with my SO, who had lots of concerns about why my attractive female colleague was texting me at midnight… just something else to think about if you don’t want to end up with more marital troubles.
-LiS ❤️
My favorite candidate for transference,
I also feel like I could just talk with you forever. I am finding myself checking this page every time I check LO’s recent WhatsApp status (We don’t have any other form of social media together except for work email and Strava).
I loved hearing your perspective on Jealousy. Very, very interesting. While I agree the relationship won’t be the same as LOs with their SOs, the question is do we really want it to be the same? Yes, I spend more time with SO but the distance is so far…
For jealousy, here’s a funny story (to confirm that I’m weird), after he initiated “Have fun at baseball”, I replied with: After getting rejected, I opted to go with an IT. He may not have a PhD but I don’t feel rejected.” He replied with “ouch” and disappeared…… Yes, I can’t get weirder than that. I am a nerd so this whole world is new to me 🙂
I obviously work in a men dominated field. The problem they’re old. Yes, I gravitate toward old men, but I limit that to late 40s. I’m actually the only millennial in the department.
Compliments – Very very interesting. I actually don’t even know what he thinks about my appearance. I asked him about a beautiful lady in the department, who’s better looking, he told me ‘you’. I said you need your eyes checked, he said she’s a puddle 😉 I crave his compliments, but I can see why he’s cheap with the appearance related ones after what you said.
“But I notice that recently I’ve been thinking about things like ionic bonding and radioactive isotopes and stuff that I haven’t thought about since my undergrad chemistry classes, ever since I started chatting with a certain woman with a PhD in chemistry…”
Haha, this makes me happy! I was worried for a minute you somehow uncovered my identity and read one of my papers ;)! I love that you’re a nerd and your interest in science. I mean I know you’re an MD but not all MDs are nerds/scientists ;)….
” If the genie appeared right now and granted you any wish you could have, what would you ask for?”
I love these questions as I’m confused because I don’t have a clear answer. Few months ago (before finding this website) I decided to do LC because it was getting so painful (he was also being painfully cold, borderline mean). He sensed it and literally pulled me back. Now two or so weeks post disclosure, I’m so lost. I’m going to try my best and answer your questions. Please know It’s so new that the answers might change with time.
“Do you want you and LO to both leave your marriages and get together for real?”
Yes, I dream about this. My limerent brain imagine us going for long walks and just talking forever. He makes me laugh (God knows I need that, it’s not an easy task to make me laugh).
My rational brain thinks our marriage will be a disaster! It will be built on the misery of everyone our SOs, kids, families and friends….so NO I don’t want that.
” Do you to stay in your marriage but want a PA with him?”
Limerent L&C: Absolutely. I’m so attracted to him that even touching him electrocute me (never had any similar feeling before).
Rational L&C: Absolutely not. Religious wise it’s a sin I can’t live with. My guilt will probably lead me to suicide. I just can’t live with the guilt. I also don’t think sex will be as good as I imagine. The feelings/anxiety and expectations are so high to make it successful. I actually watched this youtube video about limerence before finding this website and she explains it nicely why sex won’t be good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l5ALCPEBkc
“Do you want an EA that’s more open and warmer that what you have now? Something else?”
Yes, both brains agree on a warm friendship. I don’t like the affair part. A warm friendship that will go through the up and down and ultimately fade away because of circumstances or because we found other close friends 😉 To do so I know I need to heal from limerence 😉
“But first, a little about religion, since that sounds like it’s also really important to you.”
Yes, indeed. I was born into the religion. I had horrible role models around me (aka my dad). I rebelled and kind of left the religion but somehow always knew that God is there for me when I needed him the most. I made mistakes, messed up, yet God still forgave me and gave me opportunities to grow and accomplish great things. After having kids, I stayed at home and that gave me time to research religions. I ended up taking classes about my own religion. I did research it like a scientist. This is basically what made my religion important to me. With that being said I’m far from perfect (hello, look where I am). I just believe I’m work in progress and that I will keep trying to improve and grow. I definitely don’t think that by any means I’m better than other religions. I also don’t have the power to determine people’s fate after death. That’s God’s job. I just worry about myself 🙂 I’m liberal when it comes to the political views with slight conservative ideas. I hope it makes sense what I am writing. I’m also a humanist 🙂
For LO converting (hint: it’s a religion that allows that). I’m not allowed to marry from outside the religion as it will complicate our daily life. For example, I can’t be around alcohol at all. But then how can my husband drink and other limitations that will make the marriage impossible. When LO said he switched from protestant to catholic, I said it’s different. My religion is hard, you can’t drink. He said he hasn’t had alcohol for 6 weeks 🙂 It’s not as simple though…. his conversion can’t be motivated by the sole cause of marrying me. It has to be his own journey and research. It’s a big obstacle. I also think it’s confusing to LO (he’s agnostic btw) that I’m hard core when it comes to science (more than him sometimes) and same to religion. Thank you for the holiday wishes. LO never wished me any holidays before even though he knows about them (you got brownie points for this one), except his last text about the Independence Day with a video making fun of the people burning their driveway with the fireworks ;)!
“You really are a boundary pusher, aren’t you 😉. I mean, if we really wanted to push boundaries… I get to travel once a year for a medical education session, part of keeping up my training. It would be pretty easy for me to arrange the next one to be in your city, I like to go different places each year so it wouldn’t cause any suspicion. Then when I’m there we could meet up, maybe go on some runs, maybe hang out a bit in my hotel room…”
LOL. I didn’t know I push boundaries till recently. I guess it depends on the boundary. I feel like I have a good way of pushing boundaries though;).
Still, having phone numbers would just make our lives so much easier 😉 Also I am trying to imagine how you look which is making it really hard even my limerent brain is unable to fantasize with no image 😉
Yes, for the run. I’m a big coffee drinker 😉
NO hotel room!!!!!! That was way too bold from your side ;)!
Like your LO I would’ve disappeared if you told me that in real life 🙂 way too innocent/shy for this!
” I think she was both afraid and ashamed.”
I think I’m similar to your LO actually. I push the boundaries (even though I don’t want to) then feel ashamed and embarrassed. I feel for her actually 😉
” what do you think?”
If you want a lifetime friendship, you’re going to get yourself used to her ups and downs. You just have to be in peace that she won’t be consistently there and that you’re okay. I had a close friend (graduate school), she was so inconsistent it made me cry sometimes as I admired her so much (I’m straight 100%). When she left the state for her post-doc, we didn’t communicate for a while and now she’s back here. We communicate here and there; I always want to be part of her life, her hot and cold doesn’t hurt me anymore and I’m glad I didn’t cut her off when I was hurt.
” Do you really just want LO specifically? Or do you just want to fantasize about men who are unavailable (and therefore safe) due to being dismissive avoidant or thousands of miles away, but you’d never actually want to get involved with someone? Or deep inside, is what you’re craving just to have an affair, whether with LO or LiS or any other man who stimulates something inside you that SO doesn’t, and it isn’t really about LO at all?”
I’m not sure I have an answer to this…. Maybe you can help me answer it in the future with more food for thoughts from your end since you’re really good at this with your high EQ and IQ 😉
“what does your SO think about LO texting you at midnight?”
My phone goes to sleep at midnight, so I don’t’ usually see the texts till the next day unless I’m here staying up to answer you and do some work 😉
As you know LO is big boundaries, so the happy Independence Day timed exactly at midnight was the first time ever. Another time we had to present a big project (it was nerve recking, we prepared for month for it). Presentation went really well but before leaving I was sad as it was our last day before I start my other job. He texted me a tiktok at 1:30 am. I was shocked. I though he was drinking but he wasn’t. Maybe he felt bad that I did so much work and he was so cold to comfort me afterwards.
Thank you again for being here for me and listening to my answers. Please keep the questions coming. I’m usually the one asking all the questions so it’s refreshing to read your questions and perspective!
I guess I’m lucky with my LOs or maybe I have high standards even for the LOs in my life 🙂 You would be my second LO ever but my favorite of course;)
TTYL 🙂
More perspectives on jealousy:
https://livingwithlimerence.com/jealousy/
Dear L&C, thank you for all of your words – I am enjoying our discourse tremendously 🙂
I need to get to bed as it’s after midnight and have a long day tomorrow – I’ll take the time to write much more as soon as I’m able…
I hope you were not offended by the mention of the hotel room. I only meant that my hotel room has an excellent coffee maker with several fine coffee selections for us to drink as we sit on opposite sides of the room discussing limerence in dry academic terms – I certainly meant nothing more than that 😉 But of course you are right – after our run, we should go back to our own places (separately) to get cleaned up before meeting in a well-lit, very public coffee shop for coffee and conversation… because as you know, exercise and caffeine and conversation and limerence with an exciting new friend could NEVER lead to anything more, unless of course you keep touching my arm like that every time I make you laugh… boundaries!!!
But that does remind me of something my LO told me awhile back, when we were discussing our own boundaries – I was saying I thought it was fine for us to continue seeing each other alone, because we had such good self control and would never let anything happen. But she disagreed – she was like “but isn’t that exactly how things do happen? If we’re both so tempted, and we keep putting ourselves in situations where something COULD happen, can we really act surprised when something actually DOES happen?” And I had to admit she was right, and we started keeping our distance. So I guess I’d just say – if you 100% want to make sure nothing happens between you and your LO, then work on turning down the temperature (no touching, no late night texting) and avoid potentially dangerous situations. I know (oh, do I know) how fun it is to play the “how close can we get without actually crossing the line” game, but oh my, it’s a dangerous game with serious consequences… and I bet that no matter how much self control your LO has, if you keep telling him how much feelings you have for him and keep touching him, it’s going to be pretty hard for him to stop himself from at least thinking about the hotel room…
Anyway, I do need to get to bed. Perhaps I’ll dream about you… I’m thinking I need something new to call you. You’re not so lost anymore, now that we’ve found each other, and you’re too smart to stay confused for long. So I need a new term of endearment for you. Here are a few ideas… could I call you habib albi? Or eshgham? Meri pyari maybe? Or perhaps da zrra qarara?
Do any of these speak to you? Or do I need to keep trying?
Sweet dreams 🙂
-LiS
Influence is proportional to access.
You use boundaries to control access.
Toss in that risk is contextual. A boundary that you set for most people, an LO can go through like water through a chain-link fence.
Why do you think No Contact works? No access means less influence. Once they’re inside your head, you may never get them out. But, that’s an internal problem.
Keeping an LO out is easier than getting an LO out once they’re inside the wall.
Ideally, both parties should maintain boundaries. You need your own boundaries because you can’t rely on your LO to maintain theirs. Things change.
WRT LO #4, I got sloppy because as long as she maintained hers, I wasn’t rigorous in enforcing mine. I’d test hers.
When things changed for her, her boundaries dropped and things became very real. I had to re-establish mine. When I did, the acquaintance lasted about 6 more weeks. She realized it was a dead end and threw the flag.
The last thing I ever wanted to do was hurt LO #4’s feelings, make her angry, or make things harder for her in some way. In the end, I’m pretty sure I did at least one of them. If I’d maintained my boundaries, I might have avoided that.
Dear L&C,
A few more thoughts about your last message to me…
“Also I am trying to imagine how you look which is making it really hard even my limerent brain is unable to fantasize with no image 😉”
Ah, but that’s even better, you can imagine me any which way you like! These words you’re reading are from a real flesh-and-blood man sitting somewhere thinking about you, but everything else is fantasy, so enjoy it, make me look however you want me to look 😀
I liked reading your thoughts about your religion. Sounds like you take your beliefs seriously and have given them extensive thought, and your relationship with God is deep and meaningful, yet you are very open and tolerant towards other people with other beliefs. I like that.
I also liked your dialogue between your limerent brain and your rational brain. I’ve written out similar contrasting thoughts for myself. I think that we are alike in that we feel very strong attraction to someone other than our spouse “I’m so attracted to him that even touching him electrocute me” -well said, I understand the feeling! But we’re also committed to fidelity and don’t actually want to break any marriage vows or hurt any spouses or families…
When I wrote the thing about the hotel room (and I was actually very nervous to post that, I hoped you would read to the end and not get offended and never write me again!), but anyway when I wrote it I was curious what your very first visceral response would be. Because I think that very first split-second response is really instructive about what we really feel deep inside, before we have time to filter it through everything in our conscious brain to give what we know are more socially acceptable responses. That’s the basis of different psychological instruments like the word association test and the implicit bias tests… so anyway, when you read that about the hotel room, your immediate response was to be horrified. That’s good!! That means you don’t really want to cross any lines with anyone. Now you just have to be careful it doesn’t happen without you really meaning for it to happen – remember that limerence is an altered mental status like intoxication, and sometimes people do things while intoxicated that they would never do while sober.
You were also excited about the thought of meeting me for a run and coffee, just like you love the idea of going on endless walks and talking with your LO. So perhaps that means what you’re looking for isn’t sex, but some combination of friendship and emotional connection and perhaps a bit of romance and attraction. Like you want emotional connection more than anything, but you do also want to feel desired by someone desirable, and feel the thrill of attraction. Does that sound about right? Maybe you’d like to have a handsome and good-humored man or two in your life that you could just be friends with but never take it too far? Question – do you have many (or any) close friends in your life now, male or female? Or you like many of us around this age who’ve let old friendships whither while we focus on kids and spouse and career?
Finally “Yes, both brains agree on a warm friendship. I don’t like the affair part.”
What’s the difference between a warm friendship and an emotional affair? (Have you done much reading on the term emotional affair?) I’d say it’s the element of secrecy, about whether you or him or both have to hide part of your relationship from your spouses. Would you be ok with your SO knowing all of your interactions with LO? Reading all of your texts, knowing about all of your conversations? If so, then it’s a normal friendship. If not, it’s an emotional affair. That’s the way I think about it anyways. And for the record, I’d consider my relationship with my LO to most definitely be an emotional affair. Not proud of that, but it is what it is. She doesn’t like that term either – I used it a couple of times while talking to her and she obviously recoiled, so I don’t say those words anymore. But she still takes care to keep her interactions with me hidden from her SO, so…
I’m still waiting anxiously to hear what term of endearment you like for me to call you 😊
-LiS ❤️
My most handsome friend and definitely the tallest,
I’m writing this on my phone while walking in the dark at 11:00 pm!!!!
Yes your friendship means this much to me.
You ask so many good questions! Please don’t stop. I haven’t been challenged in a long time and god knows my brain loves a challenge.
Before answering your questions, I want to update you on my last meeting with LO today!!!
I went in with a strong intention not to test the boundaries (I read your post and was motivated/horrified by your hotel room suggestion and your reminders not to keep pushing boundaries). First thing he does, he gives my gift (incentive) as I asked. This guy has never given anything…. (It was a very thoughtful gift that I actually needed). Every time I had the urge to break a boundary, I looked at him and said I’m taking the reward home 🙂🙂 somehow it worked. I’m not going to say it was easy but thanks to your questions and reminders. We obviously discussed feelings more. He was definitely more open this time, shared that he’s struggling as well (im almost certain I’m his LO). Also shared that he finds me stunning and amazing but he tries hard not to express it. We also agreed that we both want a close/emotional friendship (we both agreed an affair is not a pleasant word lol) as long as we can keep following the boundaries. He’ll make sure he stops when I push the limit but I need to know it’s as hard for him as it’s for me. Then he opened up a little about his childhood, I did as well. He also said sorry, he wasn’t there for me when I was down few times… he regrets the cold shoulder (yes coming from a DA) it was shocking. He also shared that his brain goes through the same arguments I mentioned above (he’s not a robot as I thought he was phew).
Back to your post, remember I mentioned I struggle with high level of curiosity. I will try my luck till I hopefully get a glimpse of what you look like. I mean if your as handsome and tall as I’m imagining, might as well replace the current LO 😉
I would love to run with you and then have coffee afterwards. I’m actually the happiest right after my run and I love fancy lattes (I actually love coffee so much that I can replace food for coffee). I promise not to test the boundaries (maybe a little) till you give me an incentive like a toddler 😩
I loved your analysis to my religious beliefs. It’s spot on. I actually explained to LO that I can’t inspire his conversion, he really has to be self motivated to do so. He stated that he asked me for YouTube videos.
I copied this comment because somehow you know me more than I know myself. This is exactly what I’m looking for LO, “some combination of friendship and emotional connection and perhaps a bit of romance and attraction. Like you want emotional connection more than anything, but you do also want to feel desired by someone desirable, and feel the thrill of attraction. Does that sound about right? Maybe you’d like to have a handsome and good-humored man or two in your life that you could just be friends with but never take it too far?”
Absolutely…..
“ Question – do you have many (or any) close friends in your life now, male or female? Or you like many of us around this age who’ve let old friendships whither while we focus on kids and spouse and career?”
I have tons of mommy/daddy friends. Our lives just revolve around playdates. I have few coworkers friends and few friends from the past but being an introvert I keep all those friendship to the surface as thought of opening up makes me very uncomfortable.
I did share the walk with SO. Just wanted to put it out there. He was okay with it. Yes I didn’t share everything else as that would hurt him so much and as long as I respect the boundaries, I can deal with the guilt. I’m not sure if I’m making sense but like your LO I won’t agree on the affair word till it’s physical. I actually think me and your LO are very similar some how.
Please keep the questions/ update coming. How are you doing?
I only understood one of the names you called me above. It made me chuckle as no one ever called me that before. SO knows a little of the other language but monolingual due to his parents speaking English. My parents don’t speak English. LO didn’t try yet to learn the language despite the fact that the city were in is mostly bilingual. Btw, if you’re in the state I’m thinking you are in, I was once at a conference on the beach. It was beautiful. That was back when I started grad school.
I’ll be waiting impatiently for your reply 🙂
Not lost anymore… still a little confused though 😉
One more thought… I find it funny that I’m asking men to pay me not to touch them (that’s not how things work usually right?!) LOL
Anyways, looking forward to hearing from you!
L&C, habibti, ya amar, ya helo…
So men are paying not to be touched by you… meanwhile you are the second woman in the past few months who has told me she would be suicidal if she had sex with me… we are both hot messes! 🤣
How did you feel today? I can only imagine how high you felt yesterday with all of that mutual affection with your LO! He told you how much he’s struggling with his feelings, AND told you that he finds you stunning and amazing AND he opened up to you about his childhood!?! That’s like limerence crack! You must have been higher than you’ve ever been! Is the high still carrying over into today? Or has there been a crash? Or have you and him continued texting today to keep the good feelings up?
Anyway, I have much more to say to you, but I have to head home now. I will write more as soon as I can! In the meantime, perhaps you can tell me something about your hill running – I believe you said you do a hill workout once a week? I have a perfect training hill very close to my home, but have not been motivating myself to take advantage. Since you already have me thinking about chemistry and running in the mornings now, perhaps if you describe your hill workout routine you will inspire me in that area as well!
Ma’a salama,
LiS ❤️
High as a kite…..
Ahlan L&C!
High as a kite eh? I can imagine… I can remember that feeling exactly. Oh my, nothing feels so good while it lasts…
So you say you want me to keep the questions coming, to keep challenging you… ok, here it comes!
“we both agreed an affair is not a pleasant word lol”
The elephant in the room is still an elephant, even if I tell yourself and everyone else that it’s just a large dog. If there’s a fire in your kitchen and you say “no, I don’t like to use the word fire until the whole house is burning” that doesn’t change the objective fact that there’s a fire in your kitchen, and that you’d be wise to put it out or contain it before the whole house is burning. And likewise, not using the term “emotional affair” doesn’t mean you aren’t having one (or perhaps two at the same time 😉 )
I’d challenge you to do some reading about emotional affairs. A good place to start is with Dr. L’s two posts on that topic:
https://livingwithlimerence.com/when-does-limerence-become-an-emotional-affair/
https://livingwithlimerence.com/emotional-affairs/
And do some googling of things like “what’s an emotional affair” and “am I having an emotional affair?”. And then do some honest self-reflection and decide if you’re having one or not – you still might not like to use the word out loud, but I think it’s really important to be honest with yourself about what you’re getting involved in.
I also thought this was interesting: “I won’t agree on the affair word till it’s physical”. The interesting word choice was till- that usually means something that is going to happen, as opposed to a different word phrase like “unless it’s physical” which would indicate that it’s could happen but it’s not inevitable. There’s a difference between “I’m not going to leave my SO till he yells at me again” vs “I’m not going to leave my SO unless he yells at me again” – the first sentence sounds like you expect it to happen at some point in the future, while the second sounds like you don’t necessarily expect it but consider it a possibility. Anyway, maybe I’m reading too much into the word choice of a non-native English speaker, or perhaps it was just a “slip” – but you know what Freud said about slips revealing our inner desires…
Anyway, my friend, I am happy for you, and honestly a bit jealous of you because I miss the feelings that you’re experiencing right now, but I am also worried about you. I think you are in a dangerous place. I know that for me, the most dangerous time in my LE was the weeks immediately after our disclosure . We were doing the same thing you and your LO are doing right now – setting boundaries, telling ourselves that we have this under control and we’re committed to just keeping it friendly… but for me and my LO anyway, once we’d both disclosed our feelings, it was just impossible to continue having a close relationship while keeping it from exploding into a full blown affair. Disclosure only served to increase the temperature to the boiling point, since now we both knew for sure how the other one was feeling and really nothing was stopping us except ourselves. It got really, really dangerous, and then really really painful when we agreed that we had to stop before innocent people got really hurt and we had to separate ourselves – I’ve honestly never cried so much in my life as I did when we agreed we needed take a long break, and then even more when she told me we needed to stop completely.
Anyway, I hope that I’m wrong, that your experience won’t be the same as my experience – after all, you and your LO are different people than me and my LO, with different attachment styles and values and relationships, so there’s no guarantee that you’ll follow the same path that we did. But… I still think you’re on really dangerous ground, and I just want you to be really careful and thoughtful about what you do and say in the coming days and weeks.
I’d recommend spending some time thinking about the uncomfortable parts of this. What would it be like if your SO found out everything? What would happen if your LO had a few drinks and sent an overly affectionate text late at night and your SO saw it? What if you lost control and kissed LO and then felt so guilty you told SO? Would that be the end of your marriage? What would it feel like to have your marriage end? What would it be like to have to divide custody of your kids, and to have your kids know what led to the split? What would it be like to have your friends and family know?
And try to spend some time reflecting just on your marriage itself – how do you really feel about your SO and your marriage to him? You and your LO are definitely entertaining the idea of radical change – you’re thinking about how he’d be with your kids, he’s asking you for videos about your religion and thinking about converting… that’s pretty serious stuff! How would it feel to not be married to your SO anymore? Forget for the moment about things like how much it would hurt him and how he would feel – just think about how it would feel to you if he wasn’t your SO anymore.
For me, of course I was horrified by the thought of hurting my SO, and that was one of the main things that held me back from a PA or worse. But it wasn’t just fear of hurting her – it was also fear of losing her. I did a little thought exercise once where I imagined that somehow I could be with LO without SO getting hurt – in this fantasy world, SO was completely ok with us separating and me going to be with LO, so I didn’t have to feel any guilt about hurting her. And what I discovered was that the idea made me really, really sad at the thought of not sharing my life with SO anymore. It forced me realize that I really do love her immensely and feel tremendous fondness for her, and also consider her my lifelong best friend, and even if there was some way to trade my marriage for a relationship with LO with a minimum of pain for SO, I wouldn’t actually want that, because I really do love SO and would miss her so bad if we weren’t together.
There’s a phenomenon called “affair fog” (there I go using that word again…) – when a married person falls in love with another person, the brain seeks to minimize the cognitive dissonance by increasing your negative thoughts about your SO and minimizing the positive thoughts. It’s really uncomfortable to think “I’m a married person who’s in love with my coworker”, and our psyches don’t like to feel discomfort, so our minds protect us from the discomfort by changing the narrative to justify our thoughts and actions – for me early in my limerence, it suddenly became really easy to think about all the negative things in my marriage and about my SO, and to use that as justification for the affair I wanted to have. It took a lot of work to peel that back and see through it and be able to look at my marriage objectively and realize “hey, I actually really love my SO, and our marriage is not actually so bad, and the things that aren’t great are things we can work on”.
Now, your case may be different – it sounds like there are some serious long-standing issues with your SO, and you’ve come close to leaving the marriage in the past, well before you ever became limerent for your LO. So maybe in your case, you do find a way to look at your marriage objectively and come to the conclusion that you really aren’t happy with him and never will be. On the other hand, perhaps you’ll force yourself to take a long hard objective look at your marriage and decide that it’s actually not so bad and you’d miss him if he was gone.
Here’s a little homework assignment for you 🙂 – I want you to spend some time reflecting on your marriage, and then write me a list of 5 things you love about your SO and/or your marriage, and 5 things that you’d consider the biggest problems in your marriage.
Bshofak ba’dan,
LiS 🙂
WOW!!!! That was hard to read…. Really hard. I have thought about some of the topics you mentioned and I’m going to write a better reply once I get to a laptop as I just finished my run. I’m also going to post the hill training. But before I forget, unless and till is non native speaker mistake! Sorry!!!! It’s absolutely NOT going to happen. I’ll elaborate more later on. Love all the expressions you’re using! Are you using google? Impressive. Also can you take it easy on me? I’m supposed to be transferring limerence to you. I can put on a pedestal if you’re so realistic 😉
Have a great run! And I’ll look forward to hearing more from you when you get back 😊. I’ll let the till/unless thing slide… and yes, I’m enjoying learning some new phrases in an effort to impress you and capture your heart. Especially since I can’t give you gifts and get myself looking and smelling all nice for you like your LO, the only way I can compete is with my words… 😘
“ Also can you take it easy on me? I’m supposed to be transferring limerence to you. I can put on a pedestal if you’re so realistic”
Haha didn’t you just tell me you liked how much I challenge you and ask you tough question?!?
Women are so confusing… wait let me adjust that to be less sexist and more accurate – people are so confusing!
Enjoy your run!
LiS
LOLOLOL! Those are not tough questions…. more like painful questions to answer. The depression comes from the confusion. Confusion comes from knowing that what’s going on is not the right thing yet I’m struggling to cut it off completely as it’s an addiction (for me it’s the first addiction experience, so I need a little time to figure all this out).
“The elephant in the room is still an elephant, even if I tell yourself and everyone else that it’s just a large dog. If there’s a fire in your kitchen and you say “no, I don’t like to use the word fire until the whole house is burning” that doesn’t change the objective fact that there’s a fire in your kitchen, and that you’d be wise to put it out or contain it before the whole house is burning. And likewise, not using the term “emotional affair” doesn’t mean you aren’t having one (or perhaps two at the same time 😉 )
I’d challenge you to do some reading about emotional affairs. A good place to start is with Dr. L’s two posts on that topic:
https://livingwithlimerence.com/when-does-limerence-become-an-emotional-affair/
https://livingwithlimerence.com/emotional-affairs/”
Okay I’m going to skip this part till I’m ready to read about it. I’m not well versed in this topic since it’s my first time ever and I always thought an affair means physical (could be a language thing again). I will write about this once I read enough about it. I might even agree with you but for now Let’s agree to disagree 😉
” It got really, really dangerous, and then really really painful when we agreed that we had to stop before innocent people got really hurt and we had to separate ourselves – I’ve honestly never cried so much in my life as I did when we agreed we needed take a long break, and then even more when she told me we needed to stop completely.”
I absolutely understand and agree with all this. For that reason, there is just no way for us to be in a private space any time soon. Hence the walk on a very populated trail, open door office, and even the conference room (employees with a badge can come in all the time).
So yes, UNLESS we go to a hotel room (you know how horrified I am from hotel rooms), this is impossible. Plus, his attachment style and marriage boundary will help in addition to my religious beliefs. I actually feel really good about not crossing any boundaries last time (incentive or not) I’m proud of myself 🙂
“You and your LO are definitely entertaining the idea of radical change – you’re thinking about how he’d be with your kids, he’s asking you for videos about your religion and thinking about converting… that’s pretty serious stuff!”
The religion part (started few months ago, out of curiosity for him). I would take it more seriously if he was actually religious to start with. If I on the other hand considered conversion then it would be some serious stuff.
But yes, we did entertain and discuss the idea. I actually said it clearly on our walk last week:
I imagine in a perfect world where we can be together without our SOs, but I’ll never go through it as I’m not going to build my happiness on the misery of others (kids and SOs). He agreed!
“How would it feel to not be married to your SO anymore? Forget for the moment about things like how much it would hurt him and how he would feel – just think about how it would feel to you if he wasn’t your SO anymore.”
So, I’ve thought about this a lot before Limerence. I imagine it to be just fine honestly. I had to get myself used to it with all his cancers (it was a protective mechanism). I don’t imagine myself getting a divorce and marrying LO though as I know it’s not realistic. Also, SO is losing his vision, so he relies on me for most his driving. So yes, sometimes it feels like a relief not to have to worry about his health. Of course, since he needs me so much, I can’t just leave him.
“I want you to spend some time reflecting on your marriage, and then write me a list of 5 things you love about your SO and/or your marriage, and 5 things that you’d consider the biggest problems in your marriage.”
5 things you love about your SO:
1) He’s tall (superficial I know)
2)His love and passion to Math and excel
3)He helps whenever I need help with excel or any work-related matter
4)He loves our kids
5)He’s trying to make this marriage work
5 things that you’d consider the biggest problems in your marriage:
1) His anger
2)Not being involved in the kids’ life
3)His negativity and nonstop complaining
4)Not a great listener (he used to be better) kind of selfish
5)Workaholic. Seems work is his only passion.
So, for now, the plan is to keep a friendship (or EA once I read more about it) with strong boundaries so
“What would happen if your LO had a few drinks and sent an overly affectionate text late at night and your SO saw it? What if you lost control and kissed LO and then felt so guilty you told SO?”
doesn’t happen 🙂 Also we discussed custody before and let’s just say it was an awful discussion that went nowhere due to SO showing his selfish side.
Our summer schedule is to meet once a week, so it’s probably 4 more meetings. Then Fall will be much busier for both of us. Hoping that will help and just try and make this friendship work. In the meantime, I’m looking for a therapist to help me deal with the whole situation.
Okay now that I hopefully answered most of your questions, I need you to give me a break and go back to being the nice guy I know.
I said I like a challenge not pain! I agree though women are confusing, I confuse myself sometimes. Hence the name 🙂
Yes, learning the language is absolutely the best thing, but you’re competing with a Canadian LO here. I just feel like your tone changed little and that makes me sad 🙁
Hill training: I keep it simple. 1 mile warm up, then 1 mile (up and down which is approximately 10 times) then a mile cool down. Sometimes, I squat downhill with a band to help activate the glutes, depending on how hot it is.
I bike to the hill by the way which is 10 miles total. I also do speed intervals (same plan) on the high school track next t to home. I’ve been adding night walk to help with the crash as nights seem to be the hardest.
I need some updates about you my handsome friend. your turn?
L&S and a little sad so it’s L&SS
L&C, habibti, ana asef, saamihnee! I did not mean to make you sad or bring you pain or make you feel that my tone towards you had changed! I think I had just become concerned for you, I suppose because I’ve really come to care for you and don’t want anything bad to happen to you. And have I mentioned that I’m an anxious type? I’m sure that if we were together in real life I could soon drive you crazy with all of my concern and make you miss your DA LO who only shows concern from time to time 😉
But anyway, I was actually reassured by your reply – it sounds like you and your LO really do share a commitment to maintaining boundaries and respecting both of your marriages, and I do believe that you will be ok. It will be interesting to see how things go over the next few weeks – hopefully you can both remain content with what you have now, which seems like quite an affectionate relationship with very honest and open communication.
I think if you interpreted anything negative from the tone of my last message, it may have reflected some inquietude I’m feeling about my own situation with my LO. I just feel a lot of anxiety and uncertainty about my relationship with her these days. I would really like to sit down with her and have another open and honest “define the relationship” discussion, which we haven’t had in several months now, but she’s made it pretty clear to me that discussions like that make her feel anxious and guilty, and she doesn’t want to talk about our relationship anymore. We used to talk really openly about everything, but now our communication is just much more limited and frankly I’m confused about how she feels about me and what she wants from our relationship now and in the future.
Basically she cut off contact with me in mid April, after about a month where things were really strained, and I thought at that time our relationship was done forever. I grieved, I cried, I mourned, but eventually I was starting to make peace with it. But then at the end of May, she re-initiated contact and wanted to be friends again, saying that I’ve always been a positive person in her life who makes her happy and that she knows we need boundaries but she wants to stay friends. And then from mid May to mid June, things felt great, almost as good as when we first started talking all the time back before it got so complicated – we spent those weeks last month texting back and forth constantly, talking on the phone frequently, and after a couple of weeks she even started to come see me alone in my office (which we hadn’t done since January when we decided it was too dangerous). She was initiating a lot of the contact, and while we weren’t talking openly about our relationship or our feelings, she was giving me little words of affection – we’d talk in my office for 20 minutes, and as soon as she got back to her desk she’d text me something like “time just flies by when I’m talking with you :)” and she’d thank me a lot for being such a good friend to her and tell me how much she appreciated our friendship.
And then about 2 weeks ago, I could feel things start to change again – she stopped initiating contact, she started always taking hours to respond to my texts, she was always too busy to talk on the phone… The change started after she told me about some new fights with her SO, and then she’s had a series of other sad things happen in her life and then she got sick this week. So none of it’s really about me, but I just know from experience that whenever her life isn’t going well, she withdraws and puts up walls around herself. And I just hate, hate, hate the fact that I’m on the outside of those walls – I want to be the person she goes to when she’s feeling bad, not just another person she excludes from her life. And I know that’s not fair, that I really can’t mean that much to her or be that close to her because I’m not her husband, but it still just feels bad to feel so cut off from her.
And I think I’m just really anxious now about what’s going to come next. Will she start feeling better new week and we’ll go back to being all friendly and warm and happy with each other? Or will she stay withdrawn and not want to talk with me for weeks or months or forever? And the thing that makes me more anxious about everything is that she’s leaving for a new job at the end of August, and I have no idea what’s going to happen with our relationship then. Will we keep texting and talking on the phone but never actually see each other again? Will we still come up with ways to meet up sometimes in person? Will we never even talk with each other again, or just a few times a year? I just don’t know, and I feel like I can’t ask her because she doesn’t want to talk about our relationship, and the not knowing just makes me really anxious. I know this is another opportunity for me to practice patience and acceptance…
I’m also just feeling a lot of temptation recently. I think it’s the combination of the surprise re-kindling of our relationship, combined with the fact that she will be leaving soon, but there’s just a pretty big part of me that wants to just go for it at least once before she leaves. I just want her so badly, in every way that you can want another person. And I know that I won’t actually try anything, and I know that she would rebuff me if I did, but I’m just struggling with a lot of yearning and aching desire that I wish I wasn’t feeling.
One temptation I’ve been thinking about a lot, which doesn’t seem like the worst thing in the world but I know it could be a big deal, is that I really just want to invite her to spend an afternoon with me going for a walk or something. I’m envious of your walks with your LO, because my LO and I have never done that. I go for walks on a nice path near our work almost every day at lunch, and she’s said many times that she wants to go with me some day, but she never actually agrees to go because too many of our other coworkers walk there and she doesn’t want people to see us together and talk about us. And I know she’s right, but I just hate the fact that every time we do get to talk these days, there’s always a time limit – if she comes to see me during the work day, it’s on her 15 minute break and she has to get back before her supervisor gets mad, or if we talk on the phone after work, it’s only until she picks up her kids on the way home because she doesn’t want them to hear her talking with me (although a few months ago, she was a lot more bold about talking with me for hours in front of her kids – I don’t really know what changed). So our conversations now are always limited to like 15 or 20 minutes, even though it always feels like we could talk for hours.
So anyways, I’ve been so tempted to ask what she’d think if we both just called out sick one afternoon and met up somewhere a little ways from work where we could have a picnic lunch and go for a little hike and just spend the whole afternoon together, talking for hours without feeling like there’s a timer ticking down the whole time. It sounds so nice, and I also think about how it could set a precedent for after she leaves our workplace, that maybe once a month or something we could still meet up somewhere and spend an afternoon together just walking and talking. It sounds so nice, right? But it would also be dangerous – we’d be alone together for a long time, and we’d be lying (at least by omission) to our SOs about how we’d spent our afternoon. So I know I shouldn’t even bring this up, on the off chance that she’d say yes, but I just keep thinking about it.
So there you have it – I finally spent a lot of paragraphs spilling about myself instead of asking you all kinds of painful questions about you 😉 I did want to say about your situation that even if you do decide that you and your LO are indeed having an emotional affair and if you decide to continue it, you’ll get no judgement from me. I believe that life is complicated, that morality is not always black and white, and that sometimes people do what they need to do to get by in difficult situations. My impression from your story is that you’re stuck in an unfulfilling marriage with a spouse who doesn’t give you what you need to be happy and who doesn’t feel a need to invest in improving things, but you feel duty-bound to stay with him because of the kids and because you’ve become his medical caretaker. So if you and your LO can maintain an affectionate relationship with boundaries and that relationship meets your emotional needs enough that you can remain the dutiful wife at home, then maybe it really is the best thing for you.
Finally, thanks for sharing about your hill workouts! I love that you bike to the hill first. And also that you do speed workouts on a track! I LOVE track speed workouts, but all of the tracks where I live are kept locked and aren’t available to the public, which sucks. But I do some speed work in the park sometimes, doing 100m sprints across the soccer field. But I think it’s great that you do a mix of endurance, speed and strength work. I’d love to work out with you… and I’m also thinking that you must be a pretty fit and attractive woman 😉 I’m very interested to see what you look like as well… but alas, the internet is a dangerous place filled with scammers, catfishers and blackmailers, so I know it’s really important to avoid putting anything on here that could let other people identify either of us. The good thing is that I suspect both of us are very good at using our imaginations 😉
You told me that you also like to lift weights sometimes? What’s your lifting routine like? For me this weekend, I did a nice 8 mile run yesterday (pushing 70 lbs of kids in a jogging stroller!) and then did a bunch of lifting today. My typical week usually involves 2-3 runs, 2-3 lifting sessions, and 1-2 martial arts training sessions, and sometimes some HIIT sessions if I feel like it. And I bike to work a few times a week as well, which I love. And go for a walk at lunch most days, or in the evening. I like doing my workouts outdoors as much as possible, sounds like you do too.
Anyway, that’s enough for now, I think I’m just rambling on by now, but again I’m sorry that my last message was painful and felt bad to you, but I’m still excited to continue chatting with you and getting to know you and continue supporting one another 🙂
Tisbah ala khair,
LiS 🙂
Oh my LIS, reading your post brought tears to my eyes. So sorry 😞 I’m going to write the reply you deserve once I get off work to tonight.
Have a great day,
L&S
C for Cat,
Hello Dear, how are you? How did the play go? Did you get enough cuddling in with your LO? Wow that has to be a real mind f#$%!! I’d go positively nuts with glee, if I had to be in a situation like that with my LO. And believe me, I would be in another dimension of happiness. Just to be close to her and nestle in her arms, smell her hair or touch her hand. That’s the stuff dreams are made of!! Even if it was all fake, I’d still be secretly in love. What a challenge that must be for you. I try to imagine that in my head.
Your last message was sweet. Thank you for thinking of me. I did wish you luck. I don’t know if I can match the excitement that LiS has going on with L&C and I hope he doesn’t mind me encroaching on their space here. I just didn’t know where else we should meet up. So this is where we’re at for now. If they kick us out, we’ll live. But let’s not drink up all those fine coffee selections he was talking about..
“But I do wonder, with my limited knowledge and pretty laughable ‘do as I say not as I do’ advice, whether sitting alone and ruminating on LO is actually making things worse for you.”
You probably are correct in assuming this. I won’t say you’re wrong. But just thinking about LO in any capacity just puts the temporary band aid on my emotions for the time being. I guess over the last year I’ve spent so much time thinking about her, that it’s become commonplace. While still not making much sense or good reason. I banter on like it makes me happy, but I’ve always referred to LO as an empty happiness. Since all my other possible relationships seem so dead end. Just now I’m thinking of one of LOs friends from work, I was crushing on awhile ago. It was about a few months before LE started. It seemed at one point I’d for sure be asking her out, but she ended up revealing that she was married. What a letdown. She did however apologize because when she let me shoot my shot, I told her I didn’t see any rings on her fingers. She said it was because her wedding ring broke and some stones fell out of it, so she just quit wearing it. Not like you can’t give me credit for trying. But that’s the kind of crap I’m talking about. If it wasn’t for bad luck, I wouldn’t have any luck at all. But that’s just how it goes I guess. Somehow I find all the unavailable Women. I’m still friends with her though. She’s been a great friend at work otherwise. Would date her in a heartbeat if she wasn’t married. I just can’t get excited over married Women. Even if it was LO, I would probably feel different. I don’t know how the guys on here juggle their LEs being married. That has to be tough. But I give them credit.
“Do you have any real-life friends you could talk to?
I’ve considered telling that certain friend of LO many times, how crazy I am for LO, but I figured it wouldn’t be in my favor to do that. So I never did. About all I ever did was ask her about LO and what her situation was, which was how I found out she was divorced. Like within a year after she was married too. I felt so bad about that. Even though they didn’t have children together, I know that had to suck. I’ve been down the divorce route. I know how it killed my spirit. I can’t imagine going through something like that, literally almost within a year of saying vows. I always wished her and I could talk about it at some point. But maybe it’s for the better we never met up. It’s probably something she’d rather forget about anyway, but it still must hurt.
I have a friend I talk to about LO but honestly, it’s been such a huge part of my life, I’m sure they are sick of hearing about it. He is older anyway so he doesn’t understand the depressive nature I can get myself into over it. His idea for me is to just shut it off like a light switch and go cold turkey. I wish it was only that easy. I don’t make things easy for myself, but I aways feel like I would be in worse condition if I didn’t have LO to fantasize over. She just gives the best dopamine rush when I think of her, because she’s so glimmery, shimmery beautiful. As a limerent you probably get what I mean by that somewhat. As much as I’d like to forget about her sometimes, I just can’t. I still think of her all the time.
Anyway, I should probably cut this off for now as I have rambled on enough. Hope to hear about your play and that you’ll meet me back here soon. Till then, hope you are good. I’ll keep the coffee pot on for you.. Stay well..
Your Friend,
MJ 😉
MJ! You know those smiles that just take you by surprise and spread all across your face? Well, maybe you don’t at the moment but I’m sure you’ve had them. I just had one of those when I read your message! Thank you for thinking of me and wishing me luck.
The cuddle and kiss scenes… well… I think you can imagine how utterly lovely they were and how we both prolonged them as much as we could without raising eyebrows, haha! He smells lovely too, so when I get home I get the odd whiff of his aftershave…mmm…..
Right, sorry, I’m just going to shout at myself for a minute in my head….
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!
…
Right, that’s better. On Wednesday I had been really ill in the day so didn’t feel myself at rehearsal and started congratulating myself that I felt less glimmery generally towards LO. But then the hug and kiss happened… And last night the glimmer slammed back in like a bloomin’ disco ball! But I do feel a bit more in control, like if we just make sure we never get an opportunity to be alone, it might be OK with just enjoyable flirting… Oh, I don’t know.
LiS and L&C, sorry we’re taking up your private booth in the coffee shop… maybe we could find another old post, MJ? But I do admit I’m loving their conversation and it’s helping me… though I do feel a bit of a voyeur!
I do understand what you mean about the fantasies being a habit and a comfort. That’s what I’m trying so hard not to let myself fall into this time because I know how hard it is to get out of. Other people don’t understand you can’t just turn it off – it’s like telling someone with depression to cheer up. I’m sorry you don’t have someone sympathetic you can talk to – in real life I mean. I am here for you 🙂 and there’s lots of other support here.
I feel like you’re so deep in the mire with this that you’re struggling to get yourself out. Plus depression doesn’t help, I know. I’ve had both at once but in a way it was a bit easier because the LO of the time hurt me massively and revealed himself to be such a player I couldn’t want him any more. But I sort of still did. Or something to fill that chasm inside me anyway.
I don’t know what to say to help you other than I’m here if you need to vent. I won’t tell you to cheer up and get over it.
C4C xx
Hi C for cat,
Sorry I’m new here and introverted/shy hence the privacy concern. You seem like a lovely lady so no problem sitting across from us 😉
Thank you x
C for Cat,
Hello Dear, how is my new friend today? I was elated to read that my message brought smiles to your face. At least I am making one person of the opposite sex enjoy my company. Perhaps it’s the delicious coffee they have here for us. I’m drinking a fine hazelnut blend at the moment.
So your kissing and cuddling scenes went well I see. I totally understand your need to scream. I take its something you both enjoy very much. Does he know of your infatuation? No wonder it drives you crazy. Those smells and how they linger on, even later. I would love to bottle up my LOs scent. She always wears just the right amount perfume, which is never too much or too little. It’s always just the right, faint amount that makes me giddy with excitement. It’s crazy HOT!!
Thank you for understanding about me being stuck. In a way, I have to say I’m not really working all that hard to come out of it. The limerence monster has a hold and keeps telling me to pursue pursue pursue, because there must be hope if I catch her drive by outside when I’m on break at work. Always looking for those meaning-less signs. You know how it is. Although I guess your LE is a little more mutual, or so it seems.
I’m not really trying to fight mine off. I’ve often thought the only way LO goes away, is if some other incredibly young, cute female crosses my path and derails my LE. I feel like that’s the only way. I’m always on the hunt, and I see pretty Women all the time, but I have to keep it real also. I know what I feel for LO makes me very emotional. I feel like it’s real but I know it isn’t. I get sad because I don’t see her enough now, to even get in her circle. And I’m not even sure she would even want that based on all her past reactions when I was around. It’s like a complete waste of time, and I know it, but I won’t give it up. I try to see how she has been really low key about letting me down gently. Never being rude, turning me in, or even getting her friends involved, when easily she could do that. It’s just her style, so I’m glad she’s not a b#$@h about it.
I don’t know. Hope this makes sense to you. True I am stuck, but its hard to want to come out. Days at work are long, but always hoping on her makes the day go by. Praying for a breakthrough. Or as I like to admit, daring God to move the mountain.
Seems so impossible. Thanks for not telling me to get over it.
I will try to cheer up though because I’m glad you’re here to talk to. I’ll do my best to keep the messages coming but some nights might be a challenge if I have a tough one taking care of Dad. His Parkinsons is not making things impossible on his end to get stuff done yet, but he does require help when the caretakers leave. So that’s why I try to be there.
Hope you have a good day. I’ve left you plenty of coffee, so enjoy. I’ll talk to you later..
Your friend,
MJ 😉
Hey MJ! Just a quick reply, will post properly tomorrow (my time). Just to say that a) really don’t worry about not replying promptly. You have a lot on your plate and being a carer must be really draining. I’m sorry you and your dad are going through this.
And b) I am nervous to admit this but I don’t like coffee! Not even coffee chocolates, can’t stand the stuff. But I’ll take a nice cup of tea 😊
See you tmrw,
C4C
C for Cat,
Just thought of this for some reason. It’s hilarious..
Check it out..
What? Don’t you like my coffee??
https://youtu.be/aGY7maLpA1I
Oh I love those cheesy adverts! (not that we have Brim in the UK).
Yes, ours is mutual – or at least there’s a very strong mutual sexual attraction which I am fighting turning into limerence on my side. I think he could get emotionally involved but not as easily. We have talked about it and weirdly I feel that Lost & Confused’s situation is almost identical to mine. Which is why eavesdropping on their conversation is helpful to me. I hope they don’t mind. I’ll bring some brownies to their booth.
I can understand you not fighting the limerence at the moment. You have so much going on it must feel like too high a mountain to climb. I’m really glad your LO is nice though – I know it makes it harder for you but there’s nothing as horrible as being rejected by an LO and forced to realise you were never special and it was all just words.
You recognise it’s a waste of time but there’s that evil little shred of hope inside that won’t shut up, isn’t there? I have the same. There is no good outcome to anything with my LO yet we keep testing the boundary. I can see me having to be stronger than I ever have before.
Do you think someone else would have to be like LO to turn you away from them? Do you have a very strong ‘type’?
I think the more our brains practise loving someone the more it becomes our reality. As an actor, I’m always fake falling in love with my male co-actors, which is pretty ridiculous really. But if you pretend it enough your brain can’t distinguish. I read something once that said if you were angry with your SO to keep saying to yourself ‘I love you I love you I love you’ and that would then become the reality and get rid of the bad feelings. Something like that anyway. It sort of works. But then I see my LO…
So I’m not surprised you can’t give up. Part of your brain knows it’s not real but the part that takes notice of the pleasure bit of limerence insists it is real. I don’t know how you get over that.
Anyway, I have a load of work to do so will say bye now. Have as peaceful a Sunday as you can.
C4C x
C for Cat,
Hello again. Thanks for the nice reply. Glad you liked the retro, cheesy Brim ad. That was from the 80s. I haven’t seen Brim in years around here. I just always thought the commercial was goofy.
Might I say you look nice today. And since I know you are from the UK now, you have lovely accent. Yes I’m choosing to compliment you based on the fact, I read some of your older posts and you mentioned your SO doesn’t compliment you, so I thought I should. Hope you don’t mind.. I love those English accents. I kinda crush on Dua Lipa too and she has that Albanian accent thing going on. I find it quite sexy..
“Do you think someone else would have to be like LO to turn you away from them? Do you have a very strong ‘type’?”
You seem to really get me. There is so much about LO I don’t want to give up. I can’t really say I ever had a specific, strong type. For the longest time I had a thing for brunettes. Could not get enough of them.
Once LO came around, I realized how much I really like blondes now.
I see any blonde with hair similar to LO and I’m fixated. Yet upon getting a good look, they never look like LO in the face. And LOs face is definitely my type. I did not know my type had a face, but now that I have seen what perfection looks like, it’s going to be hard for just any Woman to come up to LO standard. She has raised the bar. It’s like everybody else pales in comparison.
You’re lucky you get to see and be with your LO, but I get how it probably gets you down when it’s not really going anywhere.
I take it you don’t talk to your SO about it??
At least you have the other conversation here to keep things helpful. I don’t know if it’s my place to ask you all the same types of questions, like LiS does with L&C. I figure you can choose to tell me what you want. I am however a little jealous you two push the boundaries.
It’s cool as hell you are in plays. I’ve always loved the performing arts. My ex was in the plays and musicals in High School. She loved it. We live close to Chicago, so we used to go see plays and musicals there often. I miss going now. I was always hoping LO was into cultural things, so I could take her eventually. Maybe one day I’ll find out.
Well It’s getting late and I need to sleep. Otherwise I probably won’t be able to type complete sentences here soon. Whenever you get this, I hope you have a good day. Enjoy the tea I left for you.
Your friend,
MJ 😉
C for Cat,
Bumping this so you see I replied back to you. Where’s LiS and L&C when we need them to keep this topic alive??
Sorry MJ, I haven’t had chance to get time alone with my computer (I hate writing long posts on my phone) but I will come back to you ASAP. Hope you’re doing OK today, and thanks for the tea 🙂
Its all good C4C.. My day has been ok, although I did fall into some heavy sadness earlier and couldn’t stop crying again. I’ll tell you more later.
Oh no, I’m sorry 😥. Hope you feel better today.
Thank you for the compliments on Monday. It always tickles me how Americans like a British accent. Mind you, I worked in Ohio for a few weeks after university and was always being asked if I was French or Australian 🤣!
I didn’t use to think I had a type and I still don’t physically, it’s more a personality thing, a cheeky twinkle, intelligence and a good sense of humour. And liking me 😉
My current LO has physical flaws (as we all do) and I can clearly and objectively notice them. But it’s really weird how that doesn’t affect the way I feel and the desire.
But it sounds as if your LO is just about perfect in your eyes, especially physically, and that must be really hard. No one else is going to live up to that. Is there anything about her that isn’t perfect that you could focus on, like Dr L says?
Noooooooo I don’t talk to my SO about it at all. So talking to you helps. Ask me whatever you like!
Acting is my absolute passion. I never feel more myself than when I’m being someone else. If that makes sense! It allows me to really feel all of those emotions I bottle up a lot of the time.
It’s a shame you don’t go to the theatre any more – why is that? I’ve been on my own several times and it’s quite liberating. Or maybe you could find a friend or colleague to go with?
Anyway, have to take the dog out so hope you’re ok x
C for Cat,
I feel like we’re all alone here now. I think LiS and and L&C got into a lovers spat or something and decided to hang elsewhere. Which makes this our little hangout now I guess. Are you OK being alone with me in this dark corner?
Today was a better day. Yesterday I got really sad because I started missing LO again. I had to take my Father to the hospital and around lunchtime, I headed for the Cafe which was on the bottom floor. What I didn’t consider is that is was also lunchtime for hospital staff. So the place got super busy with like a hundred female Nurses. Ranging in age from probably like 25 to 55. Of course I was probably eyeing the ones mainly 40 and under. My eye caught a particular gal standing at the microwave heating her food. She had a big name tag on and was probably early 30s I would say. Nothing super outstanding about her, but she had on a super cute pair of open toed shoes, and really nice matching color pants and top. She wore glasses, and her hair was tied up in a big fat ponytail. She was simple, yet so elegant looking as she stood there heating up her food. I was interested and compared her to LO, (which is common for me) and maybe the only thing the same about her was she had LOs hair color. But she was hardly LO. Yet I couldn’t stop looking at her. I saw a strange simplicity about her. Something that looked comfortable. Like she could be a perfect someone to cuddle up with by a fireplace, on a cold night in the wintertime. Maybe have a nice warm bowl of soup with. I was seeing all that in my head and then reality set back in.. I was there in a hospital, helping my sick Father, getting ready to take him back home and like literally all I’ve got, is this stupid, pathetic, limerent fantasy I keep going back to because I have no life. I was almost resentful, about how much I despised myself for ruminating on LO again.
On the way home as I was driving, I spotted a car, just like LOs and got right behind it. (Of course I would just happen to get right behind it) I looked at the emblem and the color and the tail lights and I saw LO in my head. Wishing it was her sitting there in that car, wishing I was following her to a park or going to her place after work or even wishing I was with her in that car, going somewhere. Anywhere other than reality. Wishing I had someone I could lean on when being with Dad gets overwhelming. And then the sadness hit, and I broke down. That common range of emotions that heat up like they are in a microwave and then something explodes. And that’s when I cry.. This time it lasted only about an hour. On a really bad day like after work, it can go on for almost 4 hours sometimes. I’ve gotten used to it, but admit it’s getting old. It’s just a s%#^^y place to be stuck in. Today was not like that.
“But it sounds as if your LO is just about perfect in your eyes, especially physically, and that must be really hard. No one else is going to live up to that. Is there anything about her that isn’t perfect that you could focus on, like Dr L says?”
It’s true I do consider LO, God’s absolute masterpiece. It’s something that I’ve prayed on quite often actually. The better part of me knows she’s really not perfect. I once heard another co-worker refer to her as a dingbat, but he might have just said that because that’s what he thinks of blondes. I don’t see it but then again, I never worked directly by her in the office either. I’ve seen her without make up and she definitely looks different, but not ugly in any way. Part of my prayer is that I wish I would get to know her imperfections. See her quirks or annoyances. See a side of her that doesn’t seem so delicate or refined.
I guess you could even say that some of that prayer might have been answered already in that car she drives. Because I aways pictured her driving something way more high-end. And yet it’s just a simple, common sedan. It does fit her though, when I see her getting in and out of it.
I think its cool you are in to acting. It’s great that you have it as on outlet to get into the role of being someone else. I get that. Had music not been a passion of mine, I might have considered acting at one point. Never had one ounce of education in it though, but I think I could probably do it if I could get over the stage fright. You never know.
Anyway, hope you didn’t mind my sad story. Enjoy your day, whenever you get this, along with the sweet tea I left you. I’ll catch you later.
Your friend,
MJ 😉
Psst… hey MJ and C for cat… my date went out to the car to get her sweater (checks watch)… quite awhile ago, and I’m starting to think she may not be coming back… I’d hate to see good food go to waste – could I interest either of you in a cold latte and a half-eaten chocolate croissant?
-LiS 😀
Why, I’d love a croissant. I’m sure my friend C might enjoy some of it too. Maybe we can split the latte also. That is, as long as she doesn’t mind coming back to meet me in this dark corner again later…
Doggonit LiS, we were so enjoying your company here too.
Hi LiS! Nice to chat to you again. I’m sorry L&C has dashed off for a bit; I’m sure she won’t be long. I’ll pass on the latte thanks, and I’m vegan so although the croissant sounds lovely, I have far better self-control with eating than I do with men, 😀 so I’ll let MJ take that.
Do you want to hang out here with us?
Don’t worry, I think the latte is vegan. There’s a C on it, so I think it’s C for coconut milk… oh wait, the barista is saying it’s C for cat… you mean like cat milk? That’s definitely not vegan. That’s disgusting! What kind of coffee shop is this?!?
Oh, I misunderstood, she was just calling out your name – I think your tea is ready. The manager has confirmed that the C on the latte is indeed for coconut milk. Whew!
Haha, that’s hilarious! Cat milk, bleugh! 🤣
Thanks for letting me know about the tea. And I see they have vegan flapjacks…. Tempting!
Oh MJ, life does sound so rough for you at the moment. I’ve been there; looking at other people and wishing for that contact, that connection. When I had a few years of being single and depressed (the first one would have been OK without the second one!) I used to walk round busy places feeling like the loneliest person alive. The thing I wanted more than anything was to have someone I could cuddle into on a station platform waiting for a train – sounds weird I know, but just to have that person who it would be natural to do that with.
Are you never attracted to women more your age? Have you ever tried online dating (I know it can be awful – I tried it once and never again haha)? I wonder if you could find some friendship and companionship at least, to allow you to have some fun and get out to the theatre, for example, or concerts, or the cinema. Just to get you away from the pressure and stress of looking after your dad and the constant thoughts of LO. If you’re clear you’re looking for a relationship eventually but aren’t ready for more than friendship at the moment, you might find a nice woman who can help you get out of the pit? Or is there a local social group or volunteering group or something (you probably don’t have time for volunteering though).
Sorry if it seems I’m trying to fix you. Feel free to ignore any or all of what I say!
It’s hard when you don’t see your LO enough to be able to use any flaws to help you get over her. But to be honest, I am very aware of the physical flaws of my LO (I don’t know him well enough to have found any personality flaws yet; he’s a sweetie so far, annoyingly!) but it doesn’t matter when the giddiness takes over!
Sweet tea is an actual thing isn’t it, over there? I mean it’s not just tea with sugar? I listen to a really funny UK podcast called Off Menu and they had Jack McBrayer on and he explained what it was. He had to explain quite a lot of the things he was talking about, to be honest, as we’re unaware of a lot of southern US food over here.
Anyway, have a good day x
“But it sounds as if your LO is just about perfect in your eyes, especially physically, and that must be really hard.”
I imagine MJ’s LO being Latino takes a lot of pride in her appearance. If she is anything like the Latino women around here. They seem to be very conscious of how they appear when they leave the house. Always well dressed, hair done, and hygiene perfect. And being that MJ sees his LO in a professional setting, I can imagine how well maintained she comes to work. A woman with that kind of confidence is attractive in general to most men. Most men find a great appeal in a woman that takes the time to take care of herself on the outside. LO did, but she kept it more casual at work than I imagine MJ’s LO does. Get behind me Satan!
“They seem to be very conscious of how they appear when they leave the house. Always well dressed, hair done, and hygiene perfect.”
I can’t even begin to count how many times I would pass LOs car in the parking lot on break and see her, with the lit-up mirror down, as she was in there primping herself. Checking her lashes, plucking eye brows or powder puffing her face. It was like a ritual for her every day. I even wrote a poem about it.
Saw you in your car at lunch,
looking in your mirror.
I hope you’re just as splendid, perfect nice, as you always to me appear.
What I wouldn’t do to be that mirror, so I could watch you pretty-up your face.
You don’t really need to try too hard Dear, cuz ain’t nobody ever going to take your place.
I figured to come to work looking like that every day, she has to get up super early. Like it has to be a couple hour thing or more. True I appreciate and love the maintenance she takes in herself. It totally shows and she knows it. Something so attractive about a confident Woman who knows she’s sexy.
I loved seeing her in all those classy but casual clothes she would wear. One time last fall, she wore a bright pink blazer with black pants and black knee high boots. About the time I got to the office door, she walked right out (on purpose I think) and I swear, my eyes almost popped right out of my head. That hair, that face, that strut, oh my gawwwwwd. She was amayyyyyyzing. And she smelled like a dream too, when I walked by. I just looked right at her and nodded my approval. I think she got it, but I still kick myself for not complimenting the outfit. It was so totally her, and looked so right.
Gosh, I’m definitely not the girl for you then, MJ! I am totally not into all that. I don’t mind dressing up a bit and putting on a bit of make up (just lipstick really, I have good skin so don’t want to clog it up with a layer of chemicals) when I go out but most of the time I’m make up free and in comfy clothes for working from home or dog walking!
Life’s too short for messing about with all that stuff in my opinion; I’d rather be doing stuff I enjoy. 😊
C4Cat
My wife is the same way. Someone’s got to be getting married for her to get really dressed up. She’ll somewhat get dressed up for me when we go out for an evening together, but even than it has to be comfortable. If she puts on any makeup or lipstick than I know am really getting a treat. 🙂 And if she lets me paint her nails and toes I know I am really, really getting a treat.
See, he leaves out some context details…. I was and pretty much am still a tomboy. I climbed trees, walked to the riverbeds for snails and tadpoles. I had a ‘black’ (aka dead) front tooth for years from falling on my face on the cement. I’ve had too many fat lips to count ranging from running a small motorcycle into a fence post to taking a softball to the face that my sister threw very hard at me -it popped up off the glove. The last time I counted my physical scars I had over 80 (that includes the 7 surgical scars and none of the self inflicted)….many of them have a funny back story.
I’d rather have mud on my shoes than foundation/other make up caked onto my face that feels suffocating. I was the stereotypical grunge teen, it was comfortable and still is…jeans, t-shirt, flannel and sneakers. I know more about pre-2000 cars/trucks, motorcycles and baseball cards than I do about fashion.
I was also bullied, pushed around and made fun of since I was 5, that happens to the overweight, non-conforming to society’s “girl” definition especially in the 80s & 90s. I learned to hide my body in comfortable clothes, it was who I was and am.
And my right ankle is 75% fused, so my nice shoes he’s bought me I cannot wear anymore, which does bug me. But I actually do love most of the nail polish colors he picks out (I can only remember 2 that were AHHH! and they were a yellow and a funky green 😮 )
Don’t worry C, you’re fine with me. Simplicity is good. Sometimes I think LO may have an inferiority complex, which is why she has to look good all the time. Or perhaps it’s like Adam mentioned, and it’s a Latina thing. Either way, you’re taken anyway. You don’t need me and all my drama. I just like having someone to share my tea with now.
I was a tomboy too, DmmitHardison – but it was more about horses for me than trucks etc. I don’t mind getting dressed up but I love coming home, getting into pyjamas and scrubbing my face clean!
I’m sorry you were bullied – I was too, for being too academic and ‘a swot’. Kids, especially girls, can be so cruel.
You might be right, MJ. Could be either end of the scale – no confidence or lots of confidence! BTW I find the whole ‘Latina’ thing interesting; it’s not something we have as a term at all over here.
And no, I don’t want to add your drama to my own (that would be a disaster!) but I’m here to listen and try to help you out of this x
Adam, you paint her nails?! I’m impressed; I wouldn’t trust my SO to do it. I don’t even let him paint the edges of the walls haha!
Hey!
Nothing says love like spending your Saturday morning pulling your wife’s hair through a cap, painting on the highlights while hearing, “That’s too much…A little bit more there…skip this section…” the whole time. I got pretty good at it.
Painting nails is nothing compared to that.
Wow! You guys are impressive! I let my SO virtually shave my head during lockdown but I won’t let him cut my hair 🤣
I am the one that asked her if I could do it myself to start. Now we have like 50-60 different nail paint colors and some of the base and top coats. I got to be quite enthusiastic about it after she said yes. That was probably 10 years ago or so. I am pretty good at it if I do say so myself. I can’t do like super fancy nail saloon designs but I “stay in the lines”. 🙂
This conversation is adorable! C4Cat, my husband paints my toenails now because I told him about Adam painting his wife’s toenails. He said, “I’m not letting that guy outdo me.” Lol.
I guess he will be dying my hair, too. Thanks for the idea, Limerent Emeritus!
Lovisa, that’s hilarious, I love it!
That sounds like me haha. I dress up everyday, hair makeup. But it only takes me like 30-40 mins tops. I looovee looking good. If my LO was physically in the same location, it would be so easy to get his attention.
Well LO for the same reason had no trouble getting my attention.
Like song goes …
“The clothes she wears
Her sexy ways
Make an old man wish for younger days
She knows she’s built
And knows how to please
Sure enough to knock a strong man to his knees”
Nothing like an LO that glows, shimmers and glimmers.
I like these lines from the song “Start me up”
by the Stones
“I’ve been running hot
You got me wrecking gonna blow my top
If you start me up
If you start me up, I’ll never stop
Never stop, never stop, never stop
You make a grown man cry
You make a grown man cry
You make a grown man cry”
Mj, except I am not the LO in this case and the LO is nothing like that. He is a very ordinary man with very average looks and I have no clue why I am obsessed with him.
Actually I do. He showed me attention, and he brought back the lustful feelings one gets when they are with someone new, and now he is taking it away. Apparently I am very attention starved.
“He showed me attention”
Lola
I can emphasize to a point. When I first started working with LO I was very wow’d by her looks. She is a very beautiful woman. But the longer I worked with her the less and less that became noticeable to me, because I started to get to know her as a person. And perhaps the same with her with me. It was the attention she showed me that made me glimmer not her looks.
I started to look forward to her greeting me in the morning. Or calling me into the office from the warehouse for lunch. Having normal everyday conversations with her. Her asking me relationship advice because as she would say “you’ve been married for 23 years you would know”. I got addicted to HER not her looks.
Adam, it is interesting that we all seem to react the same to the things out LOs do.
Neither my wife nor LO #2 put a lot of effort into their everyday appearance. My wife’s a teacher and LO #2 was an ICU nurse. They tended to dress for their audience.
However, when they wanted to strut their stuff, not a woman in the room could hold a candle to them.
As Sheena Easton put it, “Nations go to war over women like you.”
Oh yeah, if I want to look good, I can look gooooood! 😉
No doubt
Love the “Sheena Easton” reference there..
Lmfaooooo 🤣🤣🤣
How’re you doing, MJ?
Hello C for Cat,
Welcome back to the Coffeehouse!!
I ordered you some vegan cake and thought we could share a carafe of morning tea. Hope you haven’t missed me too much. I apologize if the wait was too long. I never forgot about you.
I’ve been being busy staying depressed and panicky lately as you may have read from some of my other recent posts. I was having a few good days there last week, since I made some eye contact with LO again. Nothing outrageous or great. I saw her next door and all the old feelings came back. (Along with a ton of stage fright) It’s when I see her look at me, I get all giddy on the inside and it’s a good feeling. It’s like I’m riding a wave, but eventually it crashes. Always does. I should be used to it.
I start to get really anxious and sad when I want more to happen with LO and it never does. Sometimes it gets worse. I had a panic attack yesterday going home from work. I couldn’t stop crying again. It was bad.
LO came over at lunch and the guy I know she sees on the side (He’s a co worker too) met her for lunch. I’ve never talked to him, but honestly he’s really not a bad pick for her. At least from what I can see. I don’t think he is her SO but I don’t really care. Either way she’s unavailable to me. But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt. I wish I was meeting her for lunch instead. Want her so bad to be my SO..
How is your injury? Are you doing better? Thought I saw a post you and LO seem to be doing ok, and you’re longing for more, but it just can’t happen. That’s a terrible feeling. I would tell you to be more grateful you have an SO, because I have nobody. But I know thats easier said than done. It’s ok to cry about it if you need to. I do it all the time.
Your situation is a tough one though. I don’t know how you do it. But admit, it must be nice to be able to get close like that. Even if it is fake.
It would be a dream come true for me to know LO like that.
The forum has been different without some of the old regulars around hasn’t it?? Sometimes I think I could use some good Lovisa advice, but perhaps one of the new posters can be similar at some point and step up. No rush I guess though right??
I need to be off to work soon to see what fresh hell awaits me. Never know what I might find with LO. But I know I need to stay vigilant in case she makes an appearance.
I hope you enjoyed our chat and the tea and cake. I’ll look forward to your reply. Please continue to heal. I’ll talk to you later. Have a blessed day…
Your Friend,
MJ 😉
Hey MJ. I just wanted to talk to someone and I hope you don’t mind. I’ll reply to your post properly when I’m feeling better but tonight I am devastated. Despite hints to the contrary and feeling like I did a good audition I didn’t get the part. They cast someone younger even though my LO, who got his part of course, is the same age as me. Now I feel old, tired and like life is totally pointless. It sounds stupid to react like that but it’s the combination of finally making the big decision to go for it and then failing, plus knowing my LO will be spending lots of time with that girl he flirts with (who got her part) plus this other new woman who is very attractive. He has messaged me to say he’s sorry I didn’t get it but he’ll forget soon enough. I just feel so empty. Sometimes life is just too much isn’t it.
Sorry to be so silly, I just feel so destroyed at the moment. I worked really hard tonight at being good and positive, LO-wise, but I feel like nothing is worth trying for any more. To add insult to injury, my SO got a part.
I just feel so broken by everything at the moment.
I’m certainly not MJ but I am sorry to hear your news. It is devastating. I remember when LO told me she was leaving in two weeks. My stomach turned and I felt so useless. I told myself she left because I couldn’t make conditions right for her to stay. I blamed myself.
Don’t do that to yourself Cat. There are any number of reasons you didn’t get the part that has nothing to do with your acting skills. Please don’t loose confidence in yourself because of this. I know you really wanted to be in this play but don’t let this loss kill your determination for future plays and parts.
I can empathize with the age factor. Even though I know it’s silly that LO went away with a much younger man than me. So believe me I feel you on that. The only difference is LO is your age and for me LO was younger.
Beauty isn’t just youth. It’s the beauty of age and life experience. It is the beauty of kindness and generosity. It is beauty that is inside of you. And that beauty is your own uniqueness. What makes you, you. And no youthful beauty is greater than the beauty inside of you.
One thing that might help you to focus on something other than LO and missing the part is encourage your husband with his part. Be his cheerleader. Perhaps the positivity of encouraging and seeing him totally own the part will give you determination for the part you audition for. You got this Cat!
C4C,
I’m sorry to hear this but at the same time glad to hear you went for it. Sometimes the things we think are so right for us also have a way of evading us. Maybe it will be evident soon enough why this part might not have been right for you. Maybe a new opportunity, or maybe a chance to distance yourself from LO and heal some. Maybe something great between you and SO. I don’t really know you but I am certain you are a very talented and engaging person and you will not be held down for long. I’ll send all the best vibes I can your way!
Also…if this allows NC from LO, then take it! Please take it!
C for Cat,
Oh Dear, I am so sorry. I’m even more sorry I didn’t respond sooner, maybe I’ll figure out our time differences eventually. In any event though, you are allowed to feel sad right now. I don’t think there are any words of comfort that can make you feel better. You know how you feel about LO and nothing is going to change that. On the plus side though, it was causing you a lot of stress having to be there amongst LO and Company. Watching him interact with the younger Woman and let that fester inside you. You’re like me in a lot of ways. You know what LO does makes you feel worthless and yet you can’t stop thinking of him and the self pity you put yourself through. It’s almost like you enjoy getting worked up over it, but really you don’t. It’s just a vicious cycle.
I had a dream about LO last night and when I woke up, I got really sad it wasn’t real. I was anxious about it all day. I fell to my knees and cried over her again. Just bawling like a big baby. Me, the big, dumb 52 year old oaf. All over a fantasy. I’m out of my mind. Yet there’s a part of me that’s gotten so used to that thinking, that a part of it just feels normal now. The tears just have to run their course.
I’m sure you gave it your best and I know you tried. I would hug you now if I could. Just don’t be too hard on yourself. Since your SO is going to be in the play too, it’s probably for the better you aren’t anyway. You wouldn’t want to be all into LO with your SO right there too would you?
My whole world has crushed since LO left where I work. I still haven’t recovered. I’m still working through it, going to see a different therapist and writing poetry. Normal for now, but a good cry seems to help me too now and than. What I’m saying is, I don’t think there has to be a timeline until you feel better. It’s hard I know, but you’ll get through it. I’m here for you.
Don’t let it get the best of you Dear.
Thinking of you today and wishing you lots of love and hugs over this connection. Now go get that vegan cake I left you.
Your friend,
MJ 😉🤗💖
Hi Limerent friends. Thank you for your love, support and lack of judgement. I know it is the best outcome and will allow me to go more or less completely NC with LO, but it hurts so much. I’ve been seeing him a couple of times a week for the last seven months and suddenly there will be nothing. And I had allowed myself to hope with that part, and then it all gets crushed.
Even worse, at the pub afterwards, I was doing really well, chatting to other people etc. but he was sitting next to the girl he was flirting with last week and just couldn’t stop touching her – hugs, kisses, strokes etc (his wife wasn’t there – she was helping the director decide on the casting). It cut so deep. If I just read what I’ve written there it sounds like he is a horrible person, but I don’t think he is, I don’t think he was trying to upset me. I am learning (too late) that it’s the way he is. I just didn’t know that before. I don’t know what is between the two of them; he’s known her a long time (she’s 23 years younger than him, so from when she was a teenager) but he was so loving and attentive to her. Like he used to be with me. But not any more. He was also flirting with another young woman he’d just met.
But there’s no point trying to work out what he felt before, or what he’s feeling now; I just have to accept it and get over it. What it did mean was that the shock and hurt of not getting the part, combined with my lifelong tendency to react to things with out-of-proportion extremes of emotion, and the hurt of seeing him so adoring towards her, and feeling stupid for falling so hard for someone who I thought felt the same (who told me he’d fallen for me) but now I see didn’t, plus still getting over the exhaustion of last week’s very emotional play, threw me into a horrible sort-of-breakdown.
I didn’t sleep that night; I felt absolutely destroyed, and had some very dark thoughts. All I wanted was for it to stop; I didn’t care how.
So yesterday, when I’d spent most of the day in bed crying and not eating, when SO was worried about me, and he thought it was just about not getting the part, I was out of my mind with pain and didn’t care what happened to me any more, and couldn’t take him being so nice to me when I felt like such a horrible person. So I disclosed to my SO. Everything.
I’ve never cried so much in my life; the sweat was pouring off me. But I didn’t care if he threw me out; I felt it would be a just punishment for my serial limerence and infidelity. I cared about hurting him of course but at that point I just couldn’t carry it all any more.
To save this getting too long I’m going back to the ‘Need for Courage’ post now. Disclosing wasn’t a courageous thing to do but I feel the post is apt for the courage I, and my SO, will need going forward.
I think transferring to someone else would work for me.. I think the reason I fell so hard was because of the circumstances in my life and work at the time when me and LO met.
My best friend at work left for another job, so I lost the person I talked to during the day, and shared with, and instead I stated talking to LO. And it took a lot of my time as there was nobody else to distract me.
At some point, I was chatting with another co worker a lot, and we had really good witty conversations without any romantic involvement whatsoever. And I was in a much better mood and didn’t feel as needy for LO attention. But then the chats with the other co-worker slowed down an lot and I had nobody to distract me again.
I don’t want to be limerant for someone else… but if I find another work friend who I can talk to about more than work stuff, it would help me move on.
I had a strange turn of events… Before I even knew what limerence was, soon after the start of my LE, I tried transference. Well, it was a mix of transference/distraction/asking for advice. My long distance LO reminded me of an old fling-turned friend/confidant with whom I hadn’t been in contact for over 10 years (He also lives far away)… So of course I turned to him. Well, that went nowhere. He turned out to be married (no big surprise) and also extremely busy with work. So he didn’t even provide a distraction i.e. someone else to text with. But now months later, he starts sending a deluge of messages because his wife had cheated on him. We used to confide in each other about everything, so of course I supported him, even though he was too busy for me earlier. He did apologize profusely for that! And I think he might have already been preoccupied with his own problems when I contacted him.
So a little too late (7 weeks NC), I have my distraction. He seems quite vulnerable and needing/giving a lot of attention, so I will be careful. And we are already confiding in each other about our SOs… Might sound dangerous but I don’t think it is. I never felt any glimmer for him. And at least I have my eyes open. I will let you know how it goes. But it is nice to be talking with someone who tells me how much he appreciates me and who always finishes with: “talk more tomorrow” so I don’t have to wonder when I’ll hear from him. (I know… I am starved for attention)
Well, I’ve been see-sawing about my update on this. (In case anyone is reading.) Some days I would say I’m happy with how this is working out, on others I’ve been contemplating whether I’m getting in too deep with my transference. So I will update now, so as not to give anyone a too positive view on transference!
On the positive side I barely remember my LO. On the negative, he (my distraction) is confiding so much in me about his marriage that I think we are getting into the grey zone (or actually got into it right away). I’m also preparing for how to detach once (or if) they get their marriage to work again and he doesn’t need me so much anymore. Because I’m sure our contact will then eventually peter out.
For the past few weeks we have been texting each other first thing every morning and last thing each night, and often during the day, 95% on his initiative. A couple of nights ago, for the first time, he could only send me a short note at night because he was with his bordering-on-estranged SO, having a talk. Until now we have been alone at night on each side. Now I had to dig deep and figure out: do I feel jealous? That would mean I have let this get into limerence zone. But I am confident in saying I don’t. … But maybe a little disappointed..? That’s not good. And I know I can’t be a good support person for him if I am expecting something to happen between us. I think I would still be able to detach, but the question is: do I want to?
And yes, I realize how bad this relationship now sounds.
L.E.’s 5th Law [I can’t recall the first 4 by # but I know I have them]:
Never become the confidant(e) of an unhappy already attached person unless you are willing to accept whatever consequences, intended or unintended, it may cause.
As for forming an attachment of your own, if the ship hasn’t sailed, you’ve cast off the mooring lines.
Dear Trifles,
You are a very self aware person and I think you can observe your own reactions to see whether:
1) Your feelings of disappointment relate to him being duped by his SO (as an analogy, the ‘doormat’ who accepts the cheating partner back, after everything he has told you about being devastated by her actions, to the extent that you feel disappointed for his sake that he has caved in, etc)
2) The feelings relate to disappointment at the prospect that he would not need to confide in you any longer if he rekindles their relationship, you would not longer hold that special position (this is even likely because he was pretty transactional about replying to you more when he needed you)
3) They relate more to feelings about him, losing this wonderful person in your life that you have only just reconnected with and who has the potential to fill you with romantic yearning/attention/validation
If its a variation of 3) then I would say that you are on a slippery slope and might watch your boundaries with him?
It possible to support people without getting too sucked-in. But that is better achieved if you can be conscious of what your own boundaries are and those not being over-stepped.
L.E. Where were you with your laws when I made that first post?? 😜 Actually, I did note the potential danger in my first post and I was fully ready for this to turn into a disaster, but I suppose I weighed the risks and chose to accept the consequences. I’ve never found anything sexy about men-in-distress, but I guess the limerent state does alter one’s thinking. And you’re onto something with the attachment as well, that is why I’ve been thinking about detachment lately.
I suppose I am here to be a cautionary tale about transference when one is barely out of the limerent state and hasn’t yet found another purpose.
And Bewitched, thank you for your thoughtful reply! My unselfish motive in this relationship is to help him in his time of need. However, I think my selfish motives are: a) having a purpose/project and distraction from LO b) liking to be needed c) liking the attention. And yes, we are both aware that we are helping each other, i.e. the transactional aspect of our relationship. But it does have deeper aspects as well.
As for 1. on your list, his SO has shown no remorse and seems to in fact be quite indifferent about whether their marriage ends. He on the other hand, wants/needs to continue or else face becoming a weekend dad. So yes, I am quite outraged on his behalf. Luckily, from my side, this also means that all of the decisions are in her court and even at my worst, I can not do much to mess that up! (Not to say that I am doing my worst, I am doing my best to support him and help him relate to her.)
I’m afraid 3. might factor into my motives. I have to do some soul-searching to find out if it does. I also need to keep looking for a better, longer-lasting purpose. I clearly need one, or else I will just move from one LE to the next.
Thank you for the reminder about boundaries! I already feel like I should detach a bit while the ship is still in the harbor.
Dear Trifles,
Like all of us who are here on LwL, purposeful living to thwart limerence is at the top of my mind. I am desperately trying to come up with something to replace my LO-validation seeking behaviour.
What I’ve got so far is crowd sourcing my validation; that is, reaching out to all the other people in my life and being a good friends to them. Its amazing how many people want to vent 🙂 or just be listened to. …
That validates me, it always has. It sounds as though you also like connecting with people?
Trifles,
Thank you for sharing bravely your heartfelt experience of your transference. It allows and cautions all of us what we could encounter if one day we incidentally walk into a similar situation.
I appreciate this change to lean about your various mental and emotional states in the midst of this risky dilema. The unstable, fluid nature of human psyche fascinates me, which I think each of us could relate at least one or two elements of the said nature. Otherwise, we would not be here in LwL
Keep observing and very frankly journaling your mind (and share if you like), which would help modify and refrain our impulsive moves…. With my OCD, I can’t help constantly do it…
Sorry for “yelling” at you last time under an “emergency”!
Hi Snow,
How are you doing today?
Here’s a very nice interview with this poet Adam Schmahlholz ( IN-Q)
Site: Lowis Howes. , ( The school of greatness)
“The healing poet: Vulnerability is scary as f@&$ but so worth it. You can heal through creativity.”
Enjoy it!
Hugs.
Hi Nisor,
I’ve been quite tired with a high anxiety/nervousness level (some tremblings on a cellular level). I checked with my endocrinologist today, and learned that my artificial thyroid hormone (my own thyroid has been totally removed) might not be working well, which could cause physical anxiety and nervousness.
Our department (will be merged with another dept. soon without its original name) had the last lunch together and the chair’s tearful speech made me tearing… Then the old, retiring chair set this lunch as a beginning of an annual reunion lunch, no matter where we will be year after year. So it has brought me a sense of closure (job-wise) under a beautiful sunny day.
The sadness probably will dissipate more when I go to COO, where more events have been planned out, I’ll have many big and small reunions with relatives, old classmates and friends in all 5 places across the country. Some close middle/high school friends want me to stay longer or visit them in more places…. I’m touched, but my mind has not got excited yet, it is stuck in this unclosed “empty room” nowadays…. The real challenging time would be after I come back and face the solitary reality without the supportive, professional community anymore. 😢
I just listened to a bit of Louis Howes’ podcast with Adam Schmahlholz ( IN-Q), I definitely agree with what the poet thinks: creativity, particular poetry writing and sharing, could help (not always) heal some mental or emotional wounds, show one’s SELF through creative works … I’m just wondering what happens if one is not equipped or interested in poetry reading/writing? (The podcast is so long, I’m too tired this evening to finish listening it all)
I’m still habitually practicing Stoicism in facing and managing my current LE situation… I have no other choice!
Hi Snow,
Your emotions will be all over the place at this time of withdrawal from school and LE. You’ll probably feel disoriented, directionless and distraught. Generally speaking, the greater the personal involvement in a relationship, the more distress you’ll likely experience when the relationship is over. How long would it take? It depends on many things as for example the personality of the person and its endurance, how prepared were they before the event, etc.
When adversity comes one has to change the dramatic attitude of the lizard brain; one has to convince oneself with solid arguments that not all is bad. What one has to do is eliminate fear, when we’re afraid we become prisoners of it. When one is afraid one is under pressure, correct solutions won’t occur. Also, how to stop that automatic pilot. But how? One has to use argumentative and reasoning psychology that one can still do valuable things; if other people did it, why shouldn’t I ? This is an argument one speaks to oneself. Sounds easy but it’s not.
Loneliness is an opportunity to strengthen oneself. And like Frida Khalo said:
“ Feet, what do I need you for when I have wings to fly?
I don’t paint dreams or nightmares, I paint my own reality.”
One thing I do when too stressed or anxious: I inhale in , hold, and breath in again , exhale slowly through the mouth. Do this as long as necessary. (It’s for heart rhythm and clears the mind)
Also, doing touch assists, I touch parts of my body , any part, like the arms, tap one arm with two strokes then the other with three strokes, repeat, creating a harmonious rhythm. I do the frontal part of the head and nape . You can use any combination of strokes as you please. This, also helps to calm you down while your mind is busy creating rhythm.
Everything in life is a harmonious rhythm. We have to bring back that harmony to our bodies also. When we’re distressed that harmony goes haywire. Also tapping on a table or any other object will do, also walking , swimming dancing etc , they bring harmonious rhythm to the body.
I hope you have a great time in your COO. It’s a good change for awhile. It’ll keep you distracted. The challenge will be next school year, you’ll be missing the solidarity of the professional community, as you said. There will be new opportunities .But, you have wings to fly !!! Cheer up!
Wishing you courage and strength specially at this time when you need it the most. Have a great day! Hugs.
Snow, don’t tell anyone, but I’m being a little bit self-depreciating saying I’m a bad example. I think now that I know about limerence, I can still nip it in the bud and avoid it. I’ve recognized I’m starting to get attached, so I’m prepared to take steps. Also, to me, attachment is still not limerence. And I think no harm has been done on either side. On the contrary, I’ve apparently been a big help, and I think I could take some distance if necessary. I may have helped him through the worst of it anyway. I’m just saying that when people are involved you never know what you’re going to get. That’s why transference is risky.
And I meant it in the best possible way that you “yelled” at me. It was just what I needed. Earlier when I was considering breaking NC, I got some nice replies that advised against doing it. But I didn’t listen and broke NC. Your response worked and I kept NC. So thank you!
Bewitched, you are right – I have a need to be needed. And I was busy contacting other friends when this one (also a friend) happened to come along and take all my attention. So he did his job in distracting me from LO. I’ve also advised others here to reach out to other people instead of their LO. But one can never take their own advice! I will get back to my other friends now gradually.
@Trifles,
“I’m being a little bit self-depreciating saying I’m a bad example“
I do not category posters or LE stories here as “good” or “bad” examples, but “interesting/intriguing” or “boring/disorganized”. Some posts have no paragraphs, “smashing on one’s face” like a huge pizza pie, which would give any reader a “headache”, I imagine. To me, interesting posts comprise more of one’s psychological activities/ reactions towards their LE incidents or events, which I like to learn about to see how they resonate with my mind or not, in what ways. My interests of reading posts increase when I can see “why and how” to posters’ mind, not just their detailed events.
Also as I stressed many times before, what a writer has intended could be vastly different from what/how a reader has read and comprehend. I discern and solicit “advices” or insights from unintended posters and their narrations, opinions or reflections on their LEs. So I did not even “see” your post as “self-depreciating”. I do not take personal, intentional “advices” well and even rebel them, since no one else is me or knows how I feel or think, especially how those feelings and thoughts change and evolve constantly within hours, days, or months…
“I think now that I know about limerence, I can still nip it in the bud and avoid it. I’ve recognized I’m starting to get attached, so I’m prepared to take steps”.
I think you can! You seem to be much more aware, and awareness is the first major key to tackle a possible new LE. With my acquired LE eyes, my new glimmer even died in one month, while I’m still tutoring Romeo weekly (this evening). What marvelous tools DrL has provided!!
“Also, to me, attachment is still not limerence. And I think no harm has been done on either side.“
I feel the same as you. LE has to be the situation that interrupts one’s “normal” functions, while a healthy attachment, like to old workplace or old friends, should be encouraged. Otherwise, we’d all become a bunch of lone wolfs running in the society, only hunting for selfish interests.
In your current situation, you know and can describe your psychological activities quite accurately, but it’s hard to tell what’s going on in your “rescued” friend’s mind. Any emotional/mental/psychological harm is invisible, unless one honestly and knowledgeably confesses. Another can never assume anything even as a SO.
“On the contrary, I’ve apparently been a big help, and I think I could take some distance if necessary. I may have helped him through the worst of it anyway. “
If this is the case, then it is wonderful! Knowing one can be of a true help/assistance to another human soul in need is an irreplaceable reward of one’s quality/substance, not just a feeling-good dose of psychological panacea.
“ I’m just saying that when people are involved you never know what you’re going to get. That’s why transference is risky.”
Not just transference, but most of matters in life are unpredictable and risky with open endings. Otherwise, life can be unimaginably boring without risks, challenges, efforts, “heroic” deeds, victories and conquers. So far, it sounds like you’re very aware and in somewhat “control” of your mind, which is valuable. Please keep an eye on your mind constantly….
“Bewitched, you are right – I have a need to be needed. “
I think everyone has a need to feel wanted and needed. If one is assured that his/her friendship, companionship, partnership could TRULY uplift, in some quality and quantity, another human soul, the psychological reward s/he receives is beyond measure. I have played a “rescuer” role in several friendship, sometimes it helped; sometimes I had to run away because their downscaling spirit dragged me down along… I was not in limerence or even small infatuation with those I ever remotely helped.
In life, most important psychological matter has to be handled by oneself — ONE has to, and only ONESELF, can authentically “save” oneself. So as a “helper/rescuer”, we need to examine carefully whether our “benign assistance” is doing good or unintended harm to the receivers or to ourselves.
In a sole or mutual transference situation, meaning one (or two sides) has feelings or attachment to the other side — either the limerent or LO, then a truly beneficial help may be hard to come by, IMO. One has ventured into muddy water and needs to prepare to face “risky” consequences.
Your dream in the other blog seems to reflect your situation and thoughts… ☺️
Snow, thank you for your comments that gave me some food for thought! It’s also nice to know there are people here who understand what I’m going through. That sounds encouraging that your new glimmer died in a month thanks to your new-found awareness. And you are right – life is risky! That’s what keeps it exciting.
Somehow I knew you might appreciate my dream (in Limerence dreams blog). 😊 I was pretty happy with it myself – my dreams are so easy to interpret nowadays! I think sliding off the roof was an analogy for limerence. Some things struck me about my dream afterwards:
1. The woman on the ground would have been best equipped to help me. Why didn’t I call out to her? But nooo… I needed the men to help me! 🙄
2. I thought it was funny how I caused the man to fall off the roof. At least I didn’t push him off! I think especially L.E.’s short yet concise comment made me wonder if my involvement might actually harm someone else. The man was clearly the friend I referred to. …Or else it was Adam hearing the call of yet another damsel in distress! 😂
3. It was also funny how easy it was to save myself in the end. And how smart I was to fix the groundwork (the ladder) to make sure I don’t fall again.
I hope you are doing well in the midst of all the changes!
After having a small wakeup call posting here the other day, I detached a bit in my mind from my friend. And guess what happened? Into the open space left by him (in that corner of my mind), LO clawed his way back in. I started wondering “hmm… what is LO doing now” and remembering the great rapport we had. No! Do I need the rubber band on the wrist again? I found myself scrambling to find another image/person to fit into that mental space.
So I suppose my experience now is: transference only lasts as long as the distraction lasts. Or actually, my current “transference” is truly only distraction. He doesn’t have the power to best LO in my mind.
If Sammy is reading, I now understand what Taylor was talking about. As long as I’ve got a blank space, I *will* write your name. (Until I find my purpose.)
Hi Trifles, transference is potentially dangerous, and although it seems you are not limerent for your new friend, it’s fraught with other attachment issues, as you found. So really good how you are acting on that realisation and pulling back !
Your emotions are naturally gonna be a bit all over the place as you are now dealing 2 ‘issues’ , so don’t be too hard on yourself.
I was referring back to Beth’s golden rules. Rule no 3….
“3. If I still feel I need to think of LO I think of the most boring interactions. No dreaming of interactions not based in reality.”
Can you try this? And when you have LO thoughts go and physically do something – interact with your SO, have a call with a family/ friend, clean the bathroom, listen to a good ted talk or podcast ( this is helping me actually)
Imho, thank you. I’ve been pretty good about not fantasising and ruminating. It’s just the simple thought of LO that enters my mind. But I think his image has already faded a little bit, so I just need to continue on NC – and not start to feel too safe! I’ve been keeping busy this weekend (seeing friends and family, planning a trip), and will continue to do so. All the best!
Hi Trifles, how long did the transference last to take your mind off of the LO? Are you finding it helpful or do you think it complicates the matter? I am struggling to let go of my LO, even though I battle it daily. I have had some good days, but others…she is there and I do all I can to turn off the slideshow in my head. It is fairly innocent to be honest, well not my thoughts, but in actions. I have a SO and do not want to go down this path! Do you have a SO? The reason I ask is that I worry that I may be charting the wrong course, by adding to my worries…one problem to solve another.
Hi TJ, I’m sorry I missed your question!
I was just contemplating making an update here, so this is a good chance to answer your questions. I think how my transference took shape was mostly a question of coincidence. All of a sudden this person entered my life, who needed my help. As for how long it took to take my mind off LO – probably a few weeks. 🙈 The contact with my friend was so intense and so fast that it completely occupied my time and my mind. (For simplification I’ll objectify him here – though I don’t like that – and call him TO, for transference object.)
And I have to bring up that both of these people are far away from me, so that makes transference much easier. I.e. I never have to see LO again unless I take special pains to. I don’t know how transference would work when you see LO regularly. As for an SO, I would say I am estranged from mine.
I agree with you wholeheartedly about one problem replacing another. That’s why you have to be very careful with who you transfer to – I was pretty sure I wouldn’t become limerent for TO, but even on LwL there have been cases of people becoming limerent for old friends that they’ve never seen “in that way”. So you have to pick a TO that is at least not worse than the LO!
For me, my TO is a better choice in that he gives me a lot of attention (unlike LO) but the flip side is that I’m only human and (like L E. predicted) I seem to have gotten pretty attached. Also, my brain is trying to make me move this forward in some direction – it’s not happy just hanging in the status quo of frequent and warm contact. So really, I don’t know where to go from here. Well, I was already advised here to ramp down contact – but instead it has intensified. 🙈
In summary, I would not recommend doing what I did, unless you are really desperate to get out of the misery of that particular LE. This one is not misery but I have a feeling it will soon have run its course (famous last words??), and then what? It all comes back to purposeful living. I’m just taking a longer way there.
I’ve also read on here about people having constant contact via text for several years! But luckily that’s not me. It seems I’d rather see things quickly burn out than slowly fade away. That’s clearly a blessing with regard to prolonging/shortening misery. With LO1 contact/LE lasted 18 months, with LO2 I was smarter and it was 5 months.
I don’t know if you will see this or if it helps you at all, but just sharing my experience.
“If Sammy is reading, I now understand what Taylor was talking about. As long as I’ve got a blank space, I *will* write your name. (Until I find my purpose.)”
@Trifles.
I’ll respond to your comment down here, so there is room for replies, if anyone wishes to reply. (Have I intimidated everyone into silence yet?) 🙄🤣
Transference is an intriguing topic. I didn’t assign that particular meaning to Taylor’s song “Blank Space”. (I thought “Blank Space” was a tongue-in-cheek song about revenge). However, I guess the metaphor is apt.
I don’t know if limerents carry a “blank space” in their brains, and can write anyone’s name in that space. I think limerents have a space in their brains where the LO’s name is written. And try as they may, the limerent can’t erase the LO’s name (and image and everything else) in order to replace it with another’s.
Thinking more about my own limerence: I realise I experienced limerence for the same person (male, a classmate) for 25 years. It’s over now. It started halfway through grade eleven. At the time, it didn’t feel like friendship or romantic interest or physical attraction. The feeling was very strong and very confusing and almost impossible to define. I think I called it “hero worship” at the time. But now I think “intoxication” would be a much better word for the sensation. 🤔
To me, limerence starts when one is intoxicated by LO and ceases when one stops being intoxicated by LO. One can, like, literally, feel the dopamine drain away from one’s body… 😆
I never had any luck transferring the feeling of intoxication to a different LO – not that I tried very hard. I think limerents become intoxicated in the first place because certain very specific traits of the LO induce the feeling of intoxication, and it’s nearly impossible to find a handy replacement with identical traits. 😉
I came across a comment on Reddit that referenced Tennov’s own feelings on limerence. Apparently, she herself once fell under the spell of limerence. She said she wouldn’t want the experience a second time due to the “loss of reason” involved. She thought “cognitive prepossession” is a primary characteristic of (limerence) love. The limerent “can’t control their thinking” while in love.
Coming out of limerence, I’ve realised that limerence (the pleasurable side and also the painful side) is all about the chemicals in my own brain/body. It’s not really about the extreme attractiveness of LO. It’s also not about LO’s behaviour. It’s about the chemicals my body releases which I enjoy/detest feeling.
Tennov also made another rather fascinating (to me) comment in her research. She wrote: “You wouldn’t limerence with your mother or son, or someone of the same sex unless you were gay.”
Tennov’s comment makes me think that heterolimerence and homolimerence must feel the same in terms of emotion – quality of emotion and quantity of emotion. What’s difference is the sex of the object of love. (Either a person of the same sex or a person of the opposite sex), Hence, gay rights activists are technically correct when they claim “love is love” if they what they mean by “love” is in fact “limerence”. I guess one could say “limerence is limerence”. 🤔
Sammy,
“(Have I intimidated everyone into silence yet?) 🙄🤣”
NEVER! 🙂
“I don’t know if limerents carry a “blank space” in their brains, and can write anyone’s name in that space. I think limerents have a space in their brains where the LO’s name is written.”
I have transferred from one LO to another LO, although there was a span of years in between the LEs. Or I’ve gone from LO to crush or crush to minor attraction. I think of “blank space” as always having to have my mind occupied with some dude, up until very recently. I think it was a way to not think about myself, as trite as that sounds. I was projecting outward. Always having to have some titillation going on.
@Marcia.
Sammy says: “(Have I intimidated everyone into silence yet?) 🙄🤣”
Marcia says: “NEVER! 🙂”
That’s good to know. 🙂
Often, in real life, people meet me and think I’m a pushover. And then they get terribly confused and taken aback when they glimpse the hidden strength of my personality – a hidden strength which all INFJs have lurking just below the surface.
I think some people (in real life) sometimes think they can bully me because I outwardly present as very gentle. Then they’re shocked when I don’t bat an eyelid in response to pressure. Oh, the joys of being an INFJ! 🙄
“Or I’ve gone from LO to crush or crush to minor attraction.”
I don’t want to sound like I’m cross-examining you, Marcia. So treat these questions are rhetorical if they’re a little too annoying. Are you able easily to distinguish between “LO” and “crush” and “minor attraction”? Are these three different categories of desire for you? If so, the people who fit “crush” and “minor attraction” designation shouldn’t really be a problem i.e. they shouldn’t inspire long, drawn-out obsession.
Are you saying you’ve had an LO, who could subsequently be downgraded in status to a “crush” or a “minor attraction”? I’ve only experienced limerence as a binary i.e. I’m either obsessed with LO or I’m indifferent to LO. (He’s just a random human being I no longer have feelings for).
There was no period of time where my LO was just a “crush” or a “minor attraction” to me. Maybe, at the very beginning of limerence, he could be defined as a “crush”. But I’m think I’m doctoring the truth when I say that. My LO was always a big deal to me – a much bigger deal than a crush. 🙂
I’ve certainly had my fair share of crushes in life – crushes that coexisted with my limerence, since limerence has lasted my entire adult life. However, my crushes never consumed me. I wasn’t obsessed with my crushes. I didn’t mind “losing” crushes because they developed an interest in someone else, etc. I wasn’t “cognitively prepossessed” with any crush anywhere near to the extent I was “cognitively prepossessed” with LO.
When a crush made me feel a pleasurable rush of emotion, for example, I think I only got a pleasurable rush from crush because I was reminded of LO. See, everything always went back to LO – the one and only source of true inspiration/intoxication. I might have had pleasant interactions with other people, but they weren’t the “bottle of fine vintage wine” I happened to be secretly drinking. They were mere shadows dancing on the wall. 😆
At the risk of boring everyone to tears, here are two poems I’m wrote about my own personal experience of sexual jealousy during limerence. (Very tasteful and prim and proper. No censorship required).
Jealousy I (Documents jealousy felt in early stages of homolimerence)
The words are harsh. The words are cruel.
“When will you get it through your dome
That he loves her? Her, and not you?
He’ll marry her and you disown.”
“It can’t be true,” I cried, amazed.
“He loves me too – he loves me more.
Look, he lingers outside door,
His face a mask, features unchanged.”
In sooth, no one pronounced the words
That struck terror in my heart.
The vision of his loss so stark
Was one I conjured up, afraid.
Jealousy II (Documents jealousy felt in late stages of homolimerence)
I’m jealous when you look at her.
I’m jealous when you take her hand.
I’m jealous when you call her “Sweetheart”
And address me curtly as “Man”.
I’m jealous when she smiles at you.
I’m jealous when she says your name.
I’m jealous when she touches you
And with one touch lights Passion’s flame.
It’s agony to love someone
Whose body is a no-fly zone.
It’s even worse to love someone
Whose other love interest in known.
Sammy,
“I think some people (in real life) sometimes think they can bully me because I outwardly present as very gentle. Then they’re shocked when I don’t bat an eyelid in response to pressure. Oh, the joys of being an INFJ! 🙄”
I think the saying is: Don’t mistake my kindness for weakness.
I used to get: “You seem really quiet … at first.” 🙂
“Are you able easily to distinguish between “LO” and “crush” and “minor attraction”?”
Yes. Come to think of it, I don’t know that I really have “minor attractions.” I can look at a guy and think he’s attractive but not really feel anything. With a crush or limerence, I feel chemistry. Get all nervous around them, feel giddy and silly. Limerence is just a million times stronger. With a crush, you can still see the person as a person; with limerence, they’re a white blur.
“Are these three different categories of desire for you?”
Yes. Different levels of interest.
“If so, the people who fit “crush” and “minor attraction” designation shouldn’t really be a problem i.e. they shouldn’t inspire long, drawn-out obsession.”
Taking minor attractions of the table, I think I still feel some longing and wanting and hoping with a crush, just like limerence, it’s just not as intense.
“Are you saying you’ve had an LO, who could subsequently be downgraded in status to a “crush” or a “minor attraction”? I’ve only experienced limerence as a binary i.e. I’m either obsessed with LO or I’m indifferent to LO. (He’s just a random human being I no longer have feelings for).”
Yes, me, too. The LO was an LO. It was full-blown limerence, fading limerence and then indifference or, with one LO, some eventual level of fondness/attachment once the limerence died.
The crushes were different people from the LOs and didn’t upgrade to LOs. The LOs didn’t downgrade to crushes.
But I have had crushes during an LE, like you, and if something happened with the crush, it was a nice distraction, but the crush didn’t take the place of the LO.
” I wasn’t “cognitively prepossessed” with any crush anywhere near to the extent I was “cognitively prepossessed” with LO.”
I was prepossessed to an extent with a crush but it was less consuming.
“When a crush made me feel a pleasurable rush of emotion, for example”
I was still able to feel disappointment from a crush. I got very frustrated with my last crush, as I did with my LO, but once I finally decided I was done, I got over the crush very quickly. A matter of days. The disappointment with the LO lingered for a long time. It was like letting go of a dream I’d held onto for a very long time.
“but they weren’t the “bottle of fine vintage wine” I happened to be secretly drinking. They were mere shadows dancing on the wall. 😆”
Yes. The crush is ground beef; the LO is filet mignon. 🙂 But one takes beefcake where one can find it. 🙂
I like both the poems, particularly the second one. Ah, the horror of being called a moniker for “friend” when the other person is getting a term of romantic endearment. And of course it sounds like you were so much more interesting than his bland SO. 🙂
@Marcia.
“I used to get: “You seem really quiet … at first.” 🙂”
lol. Yes. That sounds like you. 🙂
“The crushes were different people from the LOs and didn’t upgrade to LOs.”
Good point. Maybe LOs can downgrade but crushes can’t upgrade. It’s like only being able to take a cheaper airplane seat than the seat one paid for. 🤣
“The crush is ground beef; the LO is filet mignon. 🙂 But one takes beefcake where one can find it. 🙂”
Ah, very clever. Don’t think I didn’t notice your play on words. 😜
“I like both the poems, particularly the second one. Ah, the horror of being called a moniker for “friend” when the other person is getting a term of romantic endearment. And of course it sounds like you were so much more interesting than his bland SO. 🙂”
Thank you for liking both poems. Obviously, my subconscious mind wanted to be this young man’s SO and not his actual friend. Embarrassing in hindsight! Also, a bit inappropriate, I think… 🙄
I don’t think my LO’s SO was bland at all, in all fairness. She was incredibly pretty, a gifted dancer, well-behaved. If the rumour mill is true, she was an introvert who really struggled feeling like she could be her true self. Having a slightly older boyfriend while still in high school must have given her a significant boost in confidence. (Apart from the fact she genuinely she did seem to like the fellow). 🙂
The imaginary “friction” between me and this girl is that we both fell hard for the guy at the exact same time, so appeared to be rivals vying for his affection. She won that “contest” rather easily, as the second poem suggests. Just one look/one touch and she had him.
I think my LO knew on some level that I liked him a lot. He was fond of me, but he also knew it was wisest to keep me at arm’s length. For example, once I wanted to sit next to him in a class and he insisted that we leave a chair between us. I think he could sense my desire for him and while he didn’t want to hurt me, nor did he want to give me false hope. He wanted to keep me on as a pal. But he wanted to set the terms of the friendship i.e. strictly no romance.
One day, I decided I was going to be a nuisance, and “stalk” my LO and his girlfriend. It was at the annual swimming carnival, and when I say “stalk”, I just mean I was quite innocently going to sit behind the couple all day and eavesdrop on their conversation. 🤣
Happily, fate intervened, and I wasn’t able to eavesdrop on the couple. Because I wasn’t competing, the Head of PE decided to appoint me “errand boy”. I didn’t sit down all day. I only saw my LO at the end of the day. He was alone. I say “hello” and he said “hey” – an utterly meaningless exchange that felt like the emotional peak of our “relationship”. (He wasn’t wearing a shirt when he said “hey”).
Who knows what I would have learned if I did eavesdrop on the couple? Probably that they had eyes only for each other, and I was wasting my time fantasising about someone who’d never be available.
I don’t know why I couldn’t let go of the fantasy. I think the fantasy made me happy, and somehow satisfied my own needs. I didn’t spend much time thinking about what might make LO happy. In that sense, my limerence was selfish – my so-called “beloved” was a mere object to me and not a person with complex needs. 🙄🤣
I find it fascinating that my fantasy relationship with this male lasted 25 years, which is a decade longer than his very real relationship with his SO. (They were together 15 years, and married for just over two-thirds of that time). Surely a fantasy relationship outlasting a real-life relationship is proof limerence is a kind of madness! 🙂
Sammy,
“Don’t think I didn’t notice your play on words.”
I assumed you did. I wasn’t all the subtle. 🙂
“Also, a bit inappropriate, I think… 🙄”
Why? You had feelings for a friend. It happens often.
“I don’t think my LO’s SO was bland at all, in all fairness. ”
Bland in comparison to you! 🙂 Didn’t you feel that way when you compared yourself to her? In my mind, my LO’s SO was dull … dragging him down into a pit of dull domesticity. But I could really rock his world … if he’d just let me! Or so I told myself. In truth, I knew nothing about her.
“I think my LO knew on some level that I liked him a lot. He was fond of me, but he also knew it was wisest to keep me at arm’s length. For example, once I wanted to sit next to him in a class and he insisted that we leave a chair between us. ”
Possibly. But I’ve seen two young guys, who appear to be friends, get on, for example, a bus, and they don’t sit next to each other. They sit across from each other, worried that people will think they’re together.
“But he wanted to set the terms of the friendship i.e. strictly no romance.”
Doesn’t it stink when one person gets to set the terms, and it’s not you? In all seriousness, he who wants less always sets the terms.
“I say “hello” and he said “hey” – an utterly meaningless exchange that felt like the emotional peak of our “relationship”.”
I remember having those kinds of exchanges, too. I read so much into his “hey” … what was he trying to convey to me? … when he was really just saying “hey.” No subtext whatsoever.
“He wasn’t wearing a shirt when he said “hey”.”
No wonder you remember the exchange. 🙂
“I think the fantasy made me happy, and somehow satisfied my own needs.”
But did it make you happy? Limerence made me happy in the beginning, but over time I just wanted so much more from him. I felt like I was chasing him, like he was always two steps in front of me and I couldn’t quite grasp him. It’s not a good feeling.
“I didn’t spend much time thinking about what might make LO happy. In that sense, my limerence was selfish – my so-called “beloved” was a mere object to me and not a person with complex needs. 🙄🤣”
I didn’t, either. I guess limerence is selfish. But he gave zero thought to how his behavior was affecting me, so I’m not too worried about “his needs.” Your situation was different. You had an actual friendship with your LO.
“Surely a fantasy relationship outlasting a real-life relationship is proof limerence is a kind of madness! 🙂”
So you were limerent for 25 years? I’m assuming it started to fade at some point? You were in high school together? So at some point you wouldn’t have seen him as much once you two went off to college and your lives diverged ?
Do you ever see him now and feel nothing?
@Marcia.
“Bland in comparison to you! 🙂 Didn’t you feel that way when you compared yourself to her? In my mind, my LO’s SO was dull … dragging him down into a pit of dull domesticity. But I could really rock his world … if he’d just let me! Or so I told myself. In truth, I knew nothing about her.”
I knew a little bit about my LO’s SO. And I learned more about her as time went on. In all honesty, I always felt incredibly inferior to her and hence my jealousy. Even though she was two years younger than me, I always perceived her as beautiful, glamorous, chic, mysterious, alluring.
I felt my LO was “one of the beautiful people” and I felt his SO was “one of the beautiful people”. In my mind, they were both part of the jet set/cool crowd. And I could never claim membership of that same crowd. I was an awkward person who didn’t belong in the same rarefied atmosphere as they did – at least, that’s how limerence made me feel. I felt like an intruder/interloper in someone else’s perfect world – quite literally, a “spy in the house of love”. 😜
If my LO was Adam, the first man, and if his SO was Eve, then I was horrible, nasty demoness Lilith. (Lilith is Adam’s first wife in Jewish mythology, always hanging around the Garden of Eden and feeling constantly jealous of the new woman who had taken her man away). I felt like a succubus in this love triangle – a demonic fifth wheel.
“Doesn’t it stink when one person gets to set the terms, and it’s not you? In all seriousness, he who wants less always sets the terms.”
For sure. I adored my LO so much I would have accepted any terms he set. Just looking at him made me high. Being around him made me high. As long as I was allowed to interact with him occasionally, I sometimes managed to get those little bursts of happiness I craved.
“I remember having those kinds of exchanges, too. I read so much into his “hey” … what was he trying to convey to me? … when he was really just saying “hey.” No subtext whatsoever.”
The exchange was nothing on the surface. But, as you say, limerence is all about frisson, tension between two people, etc. It definitely felt like something cosmic was happening between us below the surface during that exchange. It felt like there was something between us in the air – the air between us was electrified, if you will.
When I say that exchange was the emotional peak of the LO-limerent “relationship”, I mean that is the day my brain released the maximum amount of ecstasy in response to LO, and it was all happening in real time. Not some silly fantasy. Ecstasy in real time. Amazing!
I felt like I was looking at an angel, and he acknowledged that I had dared to look upon his angelic self. Unlike most people, I knew he was a supernatural creature, and I wasn’t repelled. Even the way he said “hey” – it felt like he was acknowledging the tension between us, and he could barely bring himself to string together a full sentence. In hindsight, he always said “hey” to people because he was probably just trying to be cool. But I found this nonchalant way of speaking, combined with his poker face, extremely intriguing. 🤣
“But did it make you happy? Limerence made me happy in the beginning, but over time I just wanted so much more from him. I felt like I was chasing him, like he was always two steps in front of me and I couldn’t quite grasp him. It’s not a good feeling.”
Full disclosure: limerence made me happy in the beginning. It also makes me happy now, oddly enough, at the finish line. I can remember all the little interactions between us, and the memory of those interactions brings a little smile to my face. Even if my LO was only playing games with me to boost his own ego, he did make me happy in a weird way. He gave me something to dream about…
On the other hand, the 95% of stuff (mostly happening inside my own mind) between beginning and end made me miserable. 😉
“So you were limerent for 25 years? I’m assuming it started to fade at some point? You were in high school together? So at some point you wouldn’t have seen him as much once you two went off to college and your lives diverged?”
Limerent for 25 years, yes. I didn’t see him in person after graduation. The school formal was the last time I saw him in person. I said he looked nice; he said I looked nice too. While my date and I were having our photos taken, he stood there, watching us and giggling, as he knew some secret that I too was supposed to know. He was fliting with me in front of my date (a female). He was still tormenting me right to the very end. If he really was a straight boy, stringing me along for a bit of a laugh, he was shameless about it.
To this day, I don’t understand what he thought his emotional relationship to me was – it didn’t feel like friendship, but it also didn’t feel like romance. When he giggled in response to me having my photo taken, was he laughing at me or laughing with me? (Laughing at me because I was dumb enough to think he liked me?)
I kept fantasising about him all throughout college, first job, etc, despite no contact. About seven years into limerence, I suddenly had this massive breakdown – I felt like I couldn’t go on. I think I realised that my ongoing infatuation with this guy probably meant that I was gay, and I couldn’t really process that information.
Around the time of our ten-year school reunion, he friended me on Facebook and I sent him one or two messages. He replied to my messages, but I didn’t read his replies. I deleted my Facebook account. Being in contact with him again turned out to be too destabilising for me emotionally. He looked supernaturally beautiful in all his pictures – it was like looking at something one shouldn’t see. I felt like a naughty little boy staring into the face of God.
My limerence for this guy has only faded in the last few years – mostly after joining LwL and learning about limerence. I realised that maybe it’s not healthy to keep the fantasy alive forever.
“Do you ever see him now and feel nothing?”
I can look at his online photos now and feel nothing. I can watch his online videos now and feel nothing. I understand his marital history. I see him as a human being who has a whole bunch of problems.
I still think he’s incredibly beautiful – or he was until recently. (His face changed when he hit 40, but my face has matured in a similar way). I don’t have a crazy hormonal response to him anymore. Having said that, I wouldn’t like to meet him again in person, because I think some part of me would still want to impress him! 🙄
Sammy,
“I felt my LO was “one of the beautiful people” and I felt his SO was “one of the beautiful people”. In my mind, they were both part of the jet set/cool crowd. And I could never claim membership of that same crowd. ”
Ah, ok. I have felt outside of the cool crowd my whole life. So I understand. My LO was in the cool crowd at work and I wasn’t. But part of me thought that might be part of the attraction that he seemed to have. “Cool dude” likes “outsider woman.” At least that’s the narrative I told myself. 🙂
“For sure. I adored my LO so much I would have accepted any terms he set. Just looking at him made me high. Being around him made me high. As long as I was allowed to interact with him occasionally, I sometimes managed to get those little bursts of happiness I craved.”
But don’t you wish you’d asked for more? I mean, you were in high school. Probably didn’t yet have the understanding or ability to express what you wanted. I don’t have that excuse. 🙂 I put up with crumbs from my LO for a very long time and I’d embarrass myself if I wrote how much I did to get his attention, but eventually I got tired of it and walked.
“It definitely felt like something cosmic was happening between us below the surface during that exchange. It felt like there was something between us in the air – the air between us was electrified, if you will.”
Do you think he felt that as well? I definitely felt I had little moments with my LO, but I have no way of knowing how much they meant to him or if they moved him like they moved me.
“Full disclosure: limerence made me happy in the beginning. It also makes me happy now, oddly enough, at the finish line. I can remember all the little interactions between us, and the memory of those interactions brings a little smile to my face. Even if my LO was only playing games with me to boost his own ego, he did make me happy in a weird way. He gave me something to dream about…”
At the end, I look back on my last LE as a colossal waste of time. I wasted years. I have really nothing positive to say about it. (Though I don’t feel angry at him anymore. The anger has faded.)
“Limerent for 25 years, yes. I didn’t see him in person after graduation. The school formal was the last time I saw him in person.”
Why didn’t you keep in touch? At least directly following graduation. Weren’t you socializing outside of school prior to graduation?
“When he giggled in response to me having my photo taken, was he laughing at me or laughing with me? (Laughing at me because I was dumb enough to think he liked me?)”
Was it a nervous laugh? A cynical laugh? A friendly laugh?
” I think I realised that my ongoing infatuation with this guy probably meant that I was gay, and I couldn’t really process that information.”
Because your family wouldn’t be ok with it ?
“He looked supernaturally beautiful in all his pictures – it was like looking at something one shouldn’t see. I felt like a naughty little boy staring into the face of God.”
If he put them on Facebook, he wanted people to see them.
“I see him as a human being who has a whole bunch of problems.”
That’s good.
” Having said that, I wouldn’t like to meet him again in person, because I think some part of me would still want to impress him! 🙄”
Ah. Well, then, stay away! 🙂 There’s no chance I’ll see mine again. I’ve never had a resurgence of limerence for the same person but I understand it can happen.
@Marcia.
“But don’t you wish you’d asked for more?”
“Do you think he felt that as well? I definitely felt I had little moments with my LO, but I have no way of knowing how much they meant to him or if they moved him like they moved me.”
I’ll answer these two questions together.
I didn’t ask for more because I think my LO did give me everything I wanted. While talking to you the other day, I came to the belated conclusion he DID make me as happy as any person could be made. He gave me feelings of pleasure I’ll treasure for the rest of my life.
My understanding of limerence is the limerent wants to be desired. The limerent doesn’t necessarily want sexual activity or a committed relationship with the LO. The limerent just wants to know the LO desires them too. In mutual limerence, both parties want to be desired.
Did my LO feel what I felt that day at the pool? Honestly, I don’t think I “moved him” in the way he “moved me” on an emotional level – that’s a little too much to ask. However, I believe he was happy being “the person other people sometimes find so moving”. I don’t see this as the same as being a narcissist. I think he was quite artistic and sensitive on some level. He enjoyed moving people.
Do I think he wished to be desired? Yes. Do I think he wanted to be desired by me personally? I don’t think he really cared one way or the other. I think he wanted to be desired in general and as long as I didn’t make any demands on him whatsoever – which I didn’t – he found my company agreeable in low doses.
In other words, to him, I was a “perfectly acceptable member of the desiring public”. He looked on me as a celebrity might look on a very polite and well-behaved fan, I guess you could say. I never gave him a hard time, so I don’t actually feel guilty about anything. 🙂
“Why didn’t you keep in touch?”
The main reason we didn’t keep in touch was I was fearful of being around him, because I had such a strong emotional reaction to him. I preferred to dream about him alone. My mind was all blurry. I wasn’t 100% sure of what I wanted myself. I was living life in slow motion, lost in a dream. Active pursuit never occurred to me.
From his side of things, he was busy. He got married at 20 to his 18-year-old bride (Family pressure to marry young because the church/both sets of churchy parents frowned on premarital sex).
I like to think my LO and his SO were obsessed with each other. (In all honesty, they probably were – young love is often hormone-driven). I didn’t want to be around an infatuated couple. I mean **cough, cough** totally gross, right? I don’t even like sitting next to loved-up people on the train. They smell weird. (Just kidding). 😜
I sent him a card congratulating both him and his lady on their engagement – all pink and gold. Wonderfully tacky! In a passive-aggressive rage, I bought them the biggest and tackiest card I could find. It cost a small fortune! I think it had something gross on it too – love-hearts or flowers or Mr Cupid himself elegantly clad in a giant diaper. 🤣🤣🤣
No, in all seriousness, I didn’t want to bother him. I knew, on a subconscious level, I didn’t actually belong in his life. I’m a very courteous person. I was saving him the bother of having to reject me. I can write my own rejection notes, thank you very much! 😜
“Was it a nervous laugh? A cynical laugh? A friendly laugh?”
Always reminded me of the sound a dolphin makes. I don’t speak dolphin-ese. You’d have to ask a marine biologist… 🤣
“Because your family wouldn’t be ok with it?”
Because same-sex attraction didn’t make sense to me at the time. My limerence for LO was involuntary, of course, because limerence is always involuntary by definition. I wasn’t choosing to like a guy. I didn’t sit down one day and think: “I’d like to double the size of my wardrobe. Ooh, I know what I’ll do – I’ll date another man!” 😉
“If he put them on Facebook, he wanted people to see them.”
All the images were beautiful. I’m shocked he didn’t get more likes. Honestly, everyone else in our shared peer group had no taste!! 🙄😇
Sorry about being a little bit flip in my responses. But I’m over this guy, and I’m feeling happy (relieved?) about that. I don’t think there’s any risk of relapse – I’ve got him out of my system for good. As moving as the whole thing was, I can also see the funny side. And it was funny – especially the sartorial choices of one Roman deity. 🙂
Sammy,
“The limerent doesn’t necessarily want sexual activity or a committed relationship with the LO. ”
I did. With every LO I had. Just knowing that they desired me was never enough. What was I supposed to do with that information if nothing was going to happen between us? If they showed interest just to get verification of my feelings, I would have preferred they left me alone.
“Did my LO feel what I felt that day at the pool? Honestly, I don’t think I “moved him” in the way he “moved me” on an emotional level – that’s a little too much to ask. ”
I don’t think it is. I mean, maybe with your LO. But to at some point to move someone the way they move you.
“In other words, to him, I was a “perfectly acceptable member of the desiring public”. He looked on me as a celebrity might look on a very polite and well-behaved fan”
That kind of does sound narcissistic. I think mine was interested in me and liked the attention. How interested? Who knows? And how many other women did he feel that way about? Again, who knows?
“Active pursuit never occurred to me.”
It’s all that ever occurred to me for mine. In retrospect … a poor choice for many of them. 🙂
“He got married at 20 to his 18-year-old bride. (Family pressure to marry young because the church/both sets of churchy parents frowned on premarital sex).”
That’s young. Didn’t you write they had divorced? It’s not a good idea to get married to have sex.
“I didn’t want to be around an infatuated couple. I mean **cough, cough** totally gross, right? I don’t even like sitting next to loved-up people on the train. They smell weird. (Just kidding). 😜”
LOL. But there’s no one you feel more a third wheel around than an infatuated couple. You know you have no place there so you just want to leave.
“I think it had something gross on it too – love-hearts or flowers or Mr Cupid himself elegantly clad in a giant diaper. 🤣🤣🤣”
He was a baby man when he got married so the diaper makes sense. 🙂
“You’d have to ask a marine biologist… 🤣”
I don’t know any. 🙂
“Because same-sex attraction didn’t make sense to me at the time.”
Apparently you haven’t studied early Greek culture. 🙂 I’m teasing.
“I didn’t sit down one day and think: “I’d like to double the size of my wardrobe. Ooh, I know what I’ll do – I’ll date another man!” 😉”
I never thought of it like that. What if you didn’t like his clothes? 🙂
@Marcia.
“With every LO I had. Just knowing that they desired me was never enough. What was I supposed to do with that information if nothing was going to happen between us? If they showed interest just to get verification of my feelings, I would have preferred they left me alone.”
To be honest, I don’t fully understand your response on an emotional level, although I appreciate it’s a valid point of view. Lucy Bain says “true reciprocation shatters limerence”. I think if the limerent learned the LO requites the feelings 100%, the feelings would fade after a burst of joy i.e. consummation. Even if limerence leads to pair-bonding, I reckon there’s a bit of uncertainty thrown in during pair-bonding. 🙂
Once I expressed some interest in a girl. I guess I did feel a low level of desire for her. When she instantly reciprocated what I perceived to be an equal amount of interest, I lost all interest in her. I guess her very positive response to my initial approach ended all uncertainty, and so the limerence reaction in my brain couldn’t continue.
It was like “the Maths problem has been solved. We don’t have to keep talking about it – on to the next problem!”. The girl, on the other hand, did wish to keep talking. She did want a relationship. I kind of get the impression she wasn’t feeling pure limerence then – a relationship was more important to her than a fantasy. I’ve always found the fantasy the thing that was most deeply gratifying. A real-life relationship with LO would disrupt/cut short the fantasy. 🤔
“I don’t think it is. I mean, maybe with your LO. But to at some point to move someone the way they move you.”
I don’t agree. My LO was out of my league, looks-wise, and I knew he was out of my league. Let’s say he was a 10 out of 10. Let’s say I’m a 5 out of 10. It’s unrealistic for a 10 to be moved by a 5. It’s unrealistic for society in general to be moved by a 5. I’m not going to move anyone deeply based purely on my looks, and I accept that.
“That kind of does sound narcissistic. I think mine was interested in me and liked the attention. How interested? Who knows? And how many other women did he feel that way about? Again, who knows?”
Sometimes, the worshipper is happy to play a subservient role. In accepting my worship, my LO wasn’t being narcissistic. He was being gracious, to my way of thinking. He accepted the tribute I paid him as his natural right, but he didn’t feel obliged to give me anything in return. He knew it was his beauty that elicited the worship. One doesn’t chastise superstars for being superstars. Some people are just born lucky, and need to date someone on the same level as them in terms of outstanding physical attributes. 😜
“That’s young. Didn’t you write they had divorced? It’s not a good idea to get married to have sex.”
They are divorced now. I think they had a real relationship that was about so much more than sex. However, both sets of parents were concerned about how deeply emotionally involved they were with each other at such a young age, and put pressure on them to get married. It was like “Romeo and Juliet”, but the parents were the complete opposite of obstacles/barriers for the young lovers. 😉
“Apparently you haven’t studied early Greek culture. 🙂 I’m teasing.”
I went to Christian school. They censored early Greek culture out of our history textbooks. 🙂 I’m teasing, too. 🙂
No, I never wanted to be romantically involved with another male. I’m not being rude or bigoted. But the bodies of two men don’t fit together in the way a man’s body and a woman’s body can and do.
As Camille Paglia points out, our sexual bodies are designed for reproduction. I’m not denying that chemistry can exist between two males or two females. I’m not saying two persons of the same sex can’t love each other very deeply on an emotional level. However, from the perspective of pure anatomy, the situation isn’t ideal. 🙂
“I never thought of it like that. What if you didn’t like his clothes? 🙂”
This proves you are a biological woman, Marcia. Only a woman would ask, in relation to the common wardrobe she could presumably share with a same-sex partner: “What if I don’t like her clothes?”
A man, in relation to the wardrobe owned by a hypothetical same-sex partner, would ask: “But do his clothes fit me? And are they comfortable?”
The shared wardrobe joke always goes down well with lesbians – they often do start borrowing one another’s outfits/accessories. Then the relationship breaks down over who accidentally stretched out beyond recognition who’s favourite pair of granny panties. Even as a gay man, I know a woman’s favourite pair of perfectly-sized granny panties are sacred, and must never be moved/borrowed. 😁
Sammy,
“To be honest, I don’t fully understand your response on an emotional level, although I appreciate it’s a valid point of view. Lucy Bain says “true reciprocation shatters limerence”.”
I don’t know that I’ve ever had “true reciprocation.”(By that I’m assuming you mean mutual limerence.) But I’ve had things happen with LOs. Some dates, a casual sexual relationship, a boyfriend. I don’t think it was mutual limerence but me being limerent and the LO being interested. And the thrill of getting my hands on an LO, IMO, far outweighed the loss of the limerence, which didn’t shatter instantly but started to fade. However, an LE will fade anyway, whether there’s reciprocation or not.
” Even if limerence leads to pair-bonding, I reckon there’s a bit of uncertainty thrown in during pair-bonding. 🙂”
There might be in the very beginning. But eventually uncertainty ends. There’s no way around that if you (universal “you”) want to have a relationship with anyone.
“Once I expressed some interest in a girl. I guess I did feel a low level of desire for her. When she instantly reciprocated what I perceived to be an equal amount of interest, I lost all interest in her. I guess her very positive response to my initial approach ended all uncertainty, and so the limerence reaction in my brain couldn’t continue.”
Was she overly eager? I can see that killing the limerence. Or even killing just basic interest you may have in someone. If you ask someone out and they get your number and text you too much right away, that can kill it, for example. I’ve had the happen.
“I’ve always found the fantasy the thing that was most deeply gratifying. A real-life relationship with LO would disrupt/cut short the fantasy. 🤔”
I guess I’m the opposite. I can only stay in the fantasy for so long, and then I get frustrated that nothing is happening. S**t or get off the pot, I wanted to yell at my most recent LO! 🙂
” It’s unrealistic for society in general to be moved by a 5. I’m not going to move anyone deeply based purely on my looks, and I accept that.”
If a 5 couldn’t move anyone, then only beautiful people would fall in love and make babies. The population would die out. 🙂
” He accepted the tribute I paid him as his natural right, but he didn’t feel obliged to give me anything in return. He knew it was his beauty that elicited the worship.”
I guess I’m just not that moved by beauty. I’m not saying I don’t notice it and react to it, but in and of itself, it won’t cause limerence or even attraction.
” One doesn’t chastise superstars for being superstars.”
I personally haven’t met any. I don’t know any celebrities. The average hot guy I don’t consider a superstar. 🙂
” I think they had a real relationship that was about so much more than sex.”
I knew a guy who was very religious and I’m pretty sure a big part of his motivation to get married at a very young age was to have sex. But also, statistically, the odds for marriages lasting if two people are really young are pretty low.
“As Camille Paglia points out, our sexual bodies are designed for reproduction.”
Strange that she writes that as she has a female partner.
Yes, we’re designed for reproduction, but a very, very, very low percentage of sexual activity has anything to do with reproduction.
“This proves you are a biological woman, Marcia. Only a woman would ask, in relation to the common wardrobe she could presumably share with a same-sex partner: “What if I don’t like her clothes?””
I mean, seriously. What if all his clothes are really flashy or loud or tacky or all green and you hate the color green? 🙂
“The shared wardrobe joke always goes down well with lesbians – they often do start borrowing one another’s outfits/accessories. ”
They also get the same haircut. 🙂 Straight couples do some of that, too, to an extent. They start to dress/look alike.
” Even as a gay man, I know a woman’s favourite pair of perfectly-sized granny panties are sacred, and must never be moved/borrowed. 😁”
Oh, no, you can have the granny panties. Just don’t touch the stuff I wear for gentlemen callers. 🙂
@Marcia.
“Was she overly eager? I can see that killing the limerence. Or even killing just basic interest you may have in someone. If you ask someone out and they get your number and text you too much right away, that can kill it, for example. I’ve had the happen.”
She wasn’t overly eager – at least not from my perspective. 🤔
I think what happened was I was in the altered state of limerence. I was unconsciously looking for someone to pair-bond with. I guess my unconscious programming was: “chase, chase, chase”. The only problem: I had no programming for what to do if someone actually expressed interest in starting a relationship. I didn’t know what to do if the “chasing” turned out to be successful. I guess I was planning for all my chasing to fail. I never thought I’d succeed.
This situation with the girl overlapped my LE for LO. I was making overtures to the girl about 6 months after falling hard for LO, because I didn’t know how to define my feelings for LO anyway.
I think after I made an initial approach to the girl, the girl assumed we were a couple and I should hang out with her all the time in front of mutual friends in the capacity of boyfriend. The problem is she never explained any of this to me – I was just magically supposed to know what my role was. (Sometimes males can be very dense).
I think the “relationship” was moving ahead in her mind, but it wasn’t moving ahead in my mind. My brain kind of drew a blank after establishing there was some limited degree of mutual attraction. (Limited compared to the attraction I felt for LO).
There was something that irked me about this girl, however. She had just gotten out of a relationship with an older male. (Someone who wasn’t in school like us. A man who was probably about 20-21-22, which seems old to a 17-year-old highschooler). She broke up with this man because apparently he was “too controlling” and didn’t like her going to the movies with her female friends, etc.
She seemed to want me to be this man, minus the parts about this man she didn’t like. I strongly suspect this man was “controlling” toward the girl because he was very likely limerent for her, whereas she didn’t return the feelings quite as strongly. At the same time, she claimed she wanted a boyfriend who was limerent for her. She was attracted to guys who clearly showed signs of limerence for her.
It was confusing – she wanted a male partner to be obsessed with her, and then she got upset when the “obsession” manifested itself in a yucky way e.g. controlling behaviour.
I didn’t know about the girl’s controlling ex. When she did tell me about her ex, I certainly wasn’t going to step into her ex’s shoes. I didn’t want to control the girl. Nor did I want to obsess over her. I checked out of the “relationship” mentally at that point. I lost interest in the whole dance. It was pretty clear the girl didn’t get my personality and wasn’t attracted to me because of who I was. She was just relating to some “type” of male who lived only in her head. She didn’t realise males aren’t interchangeable with other males.
“Oh, no, you can have the granny panties. Just don’t touch the stuff I wear for gentlemen callers. 🙂”
Ah, Marcia, my dear. You are ever-gracious and eternally kind! 🤣
Yes, Marcia gets it! Though I haven’t carried this blank space around since my previous LO (15 years ago). The LO opens up the blank space for me and it needs to be filled in order to get over LO. You’re right, it is a way to escape from myself, to have something exciting going on.
@Trifles.
Sorry for not answering your question better. I think I got caught up talking about myself. I had a few different thoughts I wanted to tie together. 🙂
Tennov said that a precondition for limerence seems to be a desire for limerence. I.e. “I feel this way and I wonder if anyone feels this way about me? I’d like someone to feel this way about me…” Maybe the “desire for limerence” is the blank space you’re alluding to?
Alternatively, the “blank space” you talk about could just be natural human desire for connection/attachment. It can be hard sometimes to distinguish between limerence and ordinary attachment. Obviously, non-limerents desire love, sex, marriage, friendship, romance, etc, etc. How can we tell limerence apart from the romantic love that non-limerents claim to experience and enjoy?
For me, personally, limerence is an almost animal-like instinct. It is almost indescribably pleasurable – it’s heaven, in fact. However, one must always eventually pay for that pleasure with deep anguish.
It seems my brain “imprints” on a potential mate i.e. the LO. This imprinting may be fine if the feelings are reciprocated and the barriers to consummation can be worked through and overcome. If the feelings aren’t reciprocated, or if significant barriers persist despite clear reciprocation, this “imprinting” on another human being can be very painful and tiring and problematic, etc, etc.
In my early teens, I definitely carried a “blank space” in my head. I wondered if anyone had limerence for me, and I hoped I would eventually identify that person. I sort of brooded over who, if anyone, in my social circle might like me, and I had a list of likely candidates.
Now I’m older, I don’t carry a “blank space” in my mind so much. I think it’s because I experienced a lengthy LE and became aware of the eye-watering emotional costs involved. I’ve sort of turned into a different person as a result of my limerence episode.
As a man in my early 40s, I don’t feel “high” when I meet attractive new people. I don’t get those little rushes of dopamine that come about from successful flirting with interested parties. I can recognise the person standing in front of me is attractive, but it doesn’t viscerally alter my mood.
In short, I think I’ve lost the “desire for limerence” because I’ve accidentally caught sight of the price-tag attached and I know I don’t have that kind of money in the bank. To me, potential LOs are like beautiful set of clothes that must stay in the department store. But I still enjoy hearing about other people’s experiences. 🙂
Sammy, no worries and sorry for side-stepping you. I didn’t have much time, so I answered quickly to the thought that was easiest to respond to.
“As a man in my early 40s, I don’t feel “high” when I meet attractive new people. I don’t get those little rushes of dopamine that come about from successful flirting with interested parties.”
That’s a shame! I still get flustered when I meet someone I find especially attractive, though not so much that it’s visible to the outside (I hope!). However, it didn’t seem that I came across anyone that flustered me for years, and now they’re busting out of the woodwork – so that’s why I’ve lately been blaming hormones. There can’t have been zero attractive people. Maybe I was in that “latent” stage that you describe.
“I’ve accidentally caught sight of the price-tag attached and I know I don’t have that kind of money in the bank.”
Looks like I still have some credit (if not cash) because I haven’t learned my lesson yet.
“I think limerents become intoxicated in the first place because certain very specific traits of the LO induce the feeling of intoxication, and it’s nearly impossible to find a handy replacement with identical traits. 😉”
I guess my LO wasn’t that special then. 😜Because I can think of a couple other choices who might have worked just as “well”, if only we did the work to get to the place where they’d reciprocate in the way LO did at the beginning. (I told you they’re coming out of the woodwork!) They don’t have identical traits, but I don’t need those exact traits, different people are intriguing in different ways. I could imagine myself falling limerent for them as well (if the pieces lined up), but I am not going to pursue that! I think limerence needs that reciprocation (however small) in the beginning – followed by the ambiguity.
Heyo Fellow Limerents,
I remember reading about transference as a method of getting over LO. I have to say it was the method I had the least faith in because 1) I wasn’t sure how it would be possible – my LO was Unique, Special, and One-and-Only and I would never be able to feel the same way about anyone else; and 2) What’s the point of having the same suffering, surely the goal is the get RID of limerence, not perpetuate it ad infinitum for an endless chain of LOs.
So, when I managed to do transference, I thought I might come back to share my experience of it, because some of you might find it interesting or useful. I certainly learnt so much from it.
So, I’ve been in limerence limbo for almost two years now (according to Tennov, I am on-schedule to get over it anyway, on average). I had a particularly painful flare up after spending some time with LO, and I said, enough was enough. I signed up for a dating app. Yes, I was that desperate.
Now there is a sort of thesis that dating apps are built to be addictive based on the principle of intermittent rewards (aha, sound familiar?) so … choose your poison – be at least on guard that you don’t fall out of the pan into the fire. However, I was so ready to be over LO, and I felt I needed to do something drastic. Never mind that I wasn’t really interested in anyone else, not really.
After a flurry of activity (so many likes! so much dopamine!) I accepted the pursuit of a particular person on the app. We did the witty exchanges, subtle and not so subtle flirting, and were almost on the cusp of meeting up (the next day) when we discovered a fundamental incompatibility that was a dealbreaker. So, we called it off and stopped messaging. And I felt the gut-wrenching feeling of thwarted desire that was so familiar – so familiar because it was how I felt when I was in distress over LO.
If there wasn’t more visceral evidence that it WASN’T about LO, but all about me, I don’t know what it was. Even I am not so deluded that I could imagine I was actually “in love” with a stranger that I chatted with for a week on a dating app. And yet, during that week, I didn’t think about LO so much, and I was anticipating seeing this other person, and when we went NC, it was sharp and painful. (And now I think extremely LUCKY that it went straight to NC like that – an easier one, I could not have hoped for, and it means I was not saddled with a new limerent episode.)
The best part? I saw, clearly, that my limerence for LO was about me, not about them. That I could so quickly ascribe such feelings to another Object … proved LO was simply an Object to me (not deliberately, but psychologically). LO wasn’t this special creature. LO wasn’t my star-crossed love. LO simply was an attractive person who fit all my triggers/requirements, who showed some interest in me, that made me develop full-blown limerence because of some need I had, and I was in pain because I could not be with them. And LO finally lost the fairy glamor.
I learnt a lot of my triggers from this online suitor too. I found out I had a “type”. I found out what takes me over the line from indifference or mild interest to triggering all my fantasies – of rescuing, of connection, etc. In other words, I really learnt what is, for me, a glimmer-giver. I might add that an element of inappropriateness is part of it – as in just as LO was never really ever going to be a compatible partner in real life, neither was this person, and that was actually PART of their appeal. It may point toward certain avoidant tendencies in myself, I will need to investigate that more.
So, after that sense of disappointment over this dating app suitor not working out, it just faded right away after a couple of days (its like limerence on a very short accelerated time line!) But – and this is crucial – my limerence for LO didn’t rekindle. When I say LO lost their glamor, I mean that … they remained the same, but I lost my innocence about how I regarded them and this “thing” that was between us, and could no longer sustain the fantasy and the feeling of doomed romance I had about them. How could I when I was so fickle and feeling so many of the same feelings in relation to a different object?
I don’t know if this will help anyone else. There are a few markers that may be distinguishing: I was at my wits end and genuinely wanted it to be over the LE, and although signing up for a dating app hardly seems like purposeful action, in a way it was purposeful because it was an action that said definitively: “I need to stop mooning over LO and actually start seeing other people.” I really wanted to be over LO, and I took a step. Not a perfect step, but it was a step in the real world that moved me AWAY from my LO. I also was towards the tail end of limerence in the sense that the required 18 months was past, and I had attempted to distance from LO for awhile now, and that might have made a difference.
It is so weird thinking of LO and feeling this … neutrality. I hope it persists, but I am hopeful. I also have a lot of work to do on myself, obviously, but that I can cope with. The one month I paid for the dating app is well worth it!
@Tranferent
Sounds like money and time well spent 👌 Happy for you!
Transferent, I’m happy to hear you came to that realization through your transference attempt! And (although I haven’t used them) I think dating apps are a perfectly purposeful action.
“LO simply was an attractive person who fit all my triggers/requirements, who showed some interest in me, that made me develop full-blown limerence because of some need I had…”
In my message above I mentioned that my LO was not particularly special (though just right for me and I wanted him badly). I suppose LO has lost some of the glamour for me as well, and that’s why he has faded from my mind quite a bit during this NC.
“I might add that an element of inappropriateness is part of it – as in just as LO was never really ever going to be a compatible partner in real life, neither was this person, and that was actually PART of their appeal. It may point toward certain avoidant tendencies in myself…”
I’ve noticed that as well. I had no desire for a LTR with LO. But like Sammy said above – I desired to be desired.
Having said the above… Today I’m tempted to show LO that I see him. I don’t follow him on social media, the only thing I have is his whatsapp. He sometimes, very rarely, posts updates there. They are boring so I’m not that tempted to open them. But – we have a common interest and go to certain events. I’ve lately posted a couple updates on events I went to. And I knew he had an event coming up – sure enough, he posted an update from there. I’m tempted to view it so he sees I’m still around. The crazy thing is, I feel like his update is a response to mine – even though he hasn’t viewed mine (he might have noticed the previews – just like I now noticed his). I know he has no interest in sending me not-so-subliminal messages, but that’s just an example of how a limerent brain works. I’m sure he would post that update no matter who sees it, just like I posted mine (some knowledgeable limerent might say 10% of it was him seeing them – I’m not confirming or denying it!).
And before you say it, no, I am not willing to give up whatsapp. I’ve been doing fine with no fantasising, let me have this one thing! (*pouts*)
@Triffles
If WhatsApp is the LC that gets you through this, go for it!!! I think this NC/LC divide here is a bit too rigid if you ask me. There’s some happiness habit writer, Gretchen Rubin, who says that people have different styles of creating habits, and only 4% can do it via the totally disciplined way. Others have other strategies that work better. A slow wean might not be so starkly successful as full NC but it might be more sustainable for some of us who are less binary in our approach.
Transferent, you are new here so I will let this slide. But you are not supposed to encourage us in the sneaky ways we try convince you that we need “just one more hit”. 😂 The right way to do it, is to say “No, Trifles, picture the stop sign and step away!”.
And on a more serious note, yes, I also turned to sweets pretty soon after I started NC. During the heights of my limerence I was also not eating a lot and still had lots of energy to exercise.
Thank you!
One other weird thing I noticed now that I am essentially “non-mere r” is that since then I have been endlessly stuffing my face with high sugar, salt and fat. I normally eat fairly healthily. I am guessing it has something to do with all this.
Has anyone else had altered appetite in relation to limerence.
Sorry meant to type “non limerent”.
And maybe not just comfort food but other substitutes? Alcohol, tobacco, risky actions …?
I mean they say people who give up smoking usually pack on the pounds so maybe … I mean I LOST ten pounds when I first met LO, I was so love sick I couldn’t eat! It would be unsurprising if it went the other way.
Hi Transferent, yes this is a common theme as Trifles also perfectly described. I could draw a clear chart of limerence levels versus food intake. We have had lots of chocolate chat here on lwl !!
Welcome!
Yep! 🍫 Gotta get the serotonin and dopamine wherever I can!
@Imho Ohhh nooooo!!!
@Triffles Thanks for setting me straight. No you must definitely not contact your LO. Here, have a chocolate.
Transferent, thanks for the chocolate, it’s appreciated! Nobody told me not to (in time) 😆, so I viewed his update, in full view not hiding any read receipts. It was a good one (and he might not even notice that I viewed it), so I’m not feeling bad at the moment. (Though one might ask: did I even gain anything??) I think that was the lowest form of low contact, so I’m not worried about the state of my NC: no actual contact for 2 months, and I can resist an urge to text him – though I’ll admit that the risk rose with just this small action.
I suppose it’s about weighing the risks, being able to justify my actions to myself, and being willing to live with the consequences. Though one should keep in mind that us limerents can justify about anything to themselves!
I keep meaning to reduce my time on the site but what an interesting set of comments there have been on LwL over the past few days; some fresh perspectives.
Trifles, meanwhile your No Contact observations stopped me in my tracks somewhat. I have been convincing myself that frostily asking my ex-LO to leave our neighbourhood social media group (he moved away two years ago) would be a reasonable idea. It is kind of reasonable but it’s also a kind of sneaky way to justify “just one more thing”.
Frederico, from a selfish point of view I want to say please stay – at least as long as it helps you to be here, and as long as you have urges to contact LO. And I want to hear more about that flower farmer. 😆
And yes, I think you should weigh the pros and cons of each action. What will it bring you if you tell LO to bugger off? And what are the risks? There are other ways of getting LO to leave – you can ask some one else to ask him. But then you wouldn’t have contact with him (pro or con?!)
Just seeing that LO had updated brought him to my mind again and sent a tiny flutter of excitement, and actually viewing it, even more so. (So I can see how you want your LO out of the group.) I think I can handle it at this point, but you have to figure out what you can handle, and what will just lengthen your misery.
Trifles
Thank you, a kind word can be so helpful!
Yes, it’s a “no brainer” really because, although I can feel him lurking in the background, he no longer contributes. Also, my final sentence through gritted teeth at Christmas was “I will always wish you well” in a nevertheless sort of way. I would very likely regret souring that moment with a snippy request after five months.
Sorry about your updates dilemma, I really empathise.
Frederico
I think that when we realize a selfish motivation about an LO or our limerence it is a good sign that there is more than just neuroscience at work in our heads. It is a genuine care we have for the person to be selfless enough to leave well enough alone. My last lament to her was “I will always be here for you and Savanna (her daughter) no matter what.” and I meant it. And I know that outside of the occasional intrusive thought, it has allowed it to become a memory that I don’t want to forget, but at the same time a cautionary tale to me to not make the same mistake with another woman. As I am cautiously going forward with Lady Friend.
Kudos to you and the good effort you are making my friend. And I agree with Trifles, I would selfishly ask you to stay if at least it does you good. I would not want to loose contact with you Frederico.
“As I am cautiously going forward with Lady Friend.”
Kudos to Lady Friends Brother Adam!! Believe that when you say “cautiously”
In solidarity
🤜🏻🤛🏻
Frederico, That’s a good point – and Adam makes it nicely as well: When you look back on this episode in say 5 years, how would you like to remember it? Would you like to have that dignified ending that you managed despite the inner turmoil?
Keeping it in a tight package is also something that motivates me: my LE had a clear beginning and a clear end. It won’t be something miserable that just drags on and on. Unlike my first LE – that’s one thing I’ve learned! Now when I look back in 5 years, the good outweighs the bad. Not so if I let it drag on.
Adam and Trifles
Your observations are really compelling and I am very glad that I didn’t succumb to temptation.
Thanks again – onwards and upwards for all of us.
f
“I keep meaning to reduce my time on the site but what an interesting set of comments there have been on LwL over the past few days; some fresh perspectives.”
@Frederico.
Hello, Frederico. How are you, my friend? Hope you are doing well. 🙂
Because I’m out of the “altered state” of limerence for all intents and purposes, I did look up my XLO’s social media recently, and saw he posted a very recent video. (A publicly available video of him performing live music). It was interesting to analyse my own response to the video, and analyse how I feel about XLO now.
First: a disclaimer. This man posed a terrible threat to my mental health when I was in my teens and 20s, because I was lovesick for him and couldn’t stop thinking about him. So it would be very unhealthy for me to look at his social media at that time – looking at his social media would just feed the addiction and prolong the pain. Now, I think, is a different story. I’m not in the altered state, so I’m not in harm’s way any longer. My moods have been stable for a long time. I don’t want to renew my acquaintance with this man, or anything. Just a quick trip down memory lane to learn how far I’ve come in my journey towards healing…
When I watched the guy’s video, I didn’t see a potential romantic partner, or “the one that got away”. I saw a cute 41-year-old dude doing cute 41-year-old dude stuff. When we were both teenagers, I honestly couldn’t read him. Now, in my early 40s, I can read him. He’s giving me “straight man vibes”. He’s giving me “straight man pretending to be cool when actually he’s just a massive nerd” vibes. (And I don’t use the word “nerd” in a derogatory way, but in a descriptive way).
Has my XLO aged? Yes, he has. But he’s still beautiful by any standards. And here’s something that’s really uncanny – there’s one part of him that hasn’t aged. The part of him that hasn’t aged is his smile. He has the exact same smile as a 41-year-old man as he had as a 16-year-old boy. Wow! Freaky! He flashes this smile at the beginning and the end of the video, and it takes me right back to the 90s.
I realise that the thing that captivated me about my XLO was his smile. His smile drew me in much more than his eyes. Curiously, as a teenager, he often wore a serious expression. He didn’t look happy all that often. So, whenever he did look happy, I sat up and paid attention. I was one of the few people in his life he consistently smiled at – I think that’s why I assumed subconsciously he was attracted to me.
Once, back in high school, I wrote my XLO a little note. I think the note said something along the lines of: “You have the most awesome smile, Never stop smiling.” My XLO read the note, and once again he flashed me that beautiful, otherworldly smile. To me, it was as if time stopped.
It’s nice to know that he still has that million-dollar smile that melted my heart. It’s nice to know that he’s happy these days, having presumably recovered from his divorce. (His divorce was about ten years ago, so he’s had time to grieve). It’s nice to know that the thing that’s making him happy isn’t a new romantic partner – (not that there would be anything wrong with that!) – but his music.
I think, if I had to sum up my feelings for him now, I would have to quote the final verse to Dolly Parton’s “I Will Always Love You”:
I hope life treats you kind
And I hope you have all you’ve dreamed of
And I wish you joy and happiness
But above all this, I wish you love
Hi all,
I skimmed over posts and got confused as to who posted what where-
I just have the vague impression that
1. there was a question about chocolate- yes! Whenever I battle limerence seriously, there is increased sugar intake. Maybe I‘m prone to addiction and need to exchange one for the other. I just wish I could exchange it for being addicted to sports or some healthy stuff, but no, it has to be either sweets or smartphone.
2. somebody is limerent for a friend he/she had before and asks if it is even possible to stay friends (and nothing more) with an LO (sorry, I can’t remember who, I‘m on a work project away from home and check in very quickly).
While I‘m still battling my limerence for a longterm friend (but being on a good way), I want to report that I just met my LO2 (the LO before current one) with his SO (he didn’t know her when I was limerent, she‘s relatively new, but engaged and pregnant), she left us for a last hour of chatting and catching up, and it was a very relaxed and wonderful evening, I like his SO very much and think she‘s the absolute right person for him. While I still think he‘s a very special person and I‘m still a special person for him, there’s no limerence in sight, but a lot of friendship- so it seems to be possible! Of course it might be only possible because he left my workplace and town. Still! It’s possible and what I hope for my current LO, who will also leave workplace and town.
This only because this someone wrote that there’s consensus here that it’s not possible to be friends with an Ex-LO.
I might add that LO2 even helped me with current LE by summarizing my situation with current LO- when I complained about the uncertainty my current LO (a close friend, as LO2 knows, of course doesn’t know about my limerence) created as to if he would leave town/workplace or not, he said immediately „but Mila, you know that this is your problem and your problem alone, not his?“ Which is true.
And which was one reason I was limerent for this guy, he was always one to hit you with the truth over the head, no niceties.