Today’s topic of discussion is proposed by Cassie:
You wrote about transfer to other relationships in a previous blog. After months and months of thinking what to do, I have just ended one after a considerable time for many reasons. It took strength and courage to choose being alone. My limerence is still with me. You say in the latest piece, purposeful living will help with future relationships. In this way, transfers might be avoided do you think?
I mentioned transference as one of the strategies for getting rid of limerence – specifically, for an LO that you don’t want to be limerent for. The reasoning behind the idea is that finding a new LO to dominate your internal world is a reliable way to displace your original, problematic LO, and free yourself from that obsession.
But, there’s an apparent contradiction at the heart of this argument, which Tennov identified in her original description of limerence. It’s there in the list of symptoms:
Inability to react limerently to more than one person at a time
So, what gives? How can transference work, if you can only be limerent for one person at a time? And, more pertinent to Cassie’s question, is transference even desirable? Is it better avoided?
This is a scenario where I can’t speak from experience, having never attempted the tranference strategy, because I was married and wanted limerence to go away. Not to be refocused onto a new person.
Transference is a viable strategy, but only really works for a particular set of circumstances:
- The limerent is single and looking for romance
- The original LO is unavailable or incompatible
- The connection between limerent and LO has not advanced to an emotional affair
The thinking here is that the limerent is open to the good vibes of euphoria, wants to find an LO who is compatible, and is free to jump in wholeheartedly if their feelings are reciprocated. This is the setup where transference would be a good outcome.
Even with that Goldilocks set of circumstances, though, there is still the problem of Tennov’s assertion that limerence is for one person at a time. How true is that?
I’m speculating here, but my experience is that it’s still possible to sense the glimmer, even when actively limerent for someone else. It’s weaker, it’s overpowered by the glamour of the LO, but that strange sense of potency still exists – it’s not extinguished entirely, even when limerence is strong.
If you do make the purposeful decision to detach from an unhealthy LO, and want to find a new, healthy LO, then being attuned to the glimmer can be an important starting point. Transference depends on kindling that glimmer for a new LO, as a way of stealing fuel from the old LO.
The excitement of early limerence can be a more fluid time, emotionally, than the established addiction of a deep connection to a longer-term LO. There is a chance for redirecting that exuberant energy onto someone more suitable.
So, that’s when transference is feasible and productive, but what about Cassie’s other questions? When is transference a destructive choice?
First, as in Cassie’s case, if unhealthy limerence has taken a lot out of you emotionally and physically, then absolutely, choosing to stay single is a purposeful decision. Throwing yourself back into the emotional turmoil of limerence is likely to be counterproductive to recovery.
A second scenario is if you find yourself repeatedly becoming limerent for dodgy LOs. Then, transference from one dodgy candidate to another is hardly progress. If a dysfunctional dynamic is what excites your limerence circuits, then you either have to resign yourself to a life of exhilarating agony, or resolve to change your approach to romance, and try prioritising affectional bonding over limerent thrills.
Transference can work well if the conditions are right, but may be a bad choice in others. Cassie asks whether purposeful living can allow a transfer to be avoided – the answer is certainly yes, but more importantly, purposeful living can allow you to make an informed decision about how your own experiences can help you decide which is the best choice. Should you swear off limerence, or find an alternative LO?
So, those are my thoughts. Question for the coffeehouse patrons: have you ever used transference for good or ill as a strategy for beating unwanted limerence?
I’ve never tried this approach, and am not sure I would want to. In a way it doesn’t seem fair to the new person as it feels like I would be using them. My limerence also isn’t something I can “turn on” with sheer will. It just happens to me, so I don’t know if I can go looking for it. But more importantly, it also seems like transferring to a new LO is just avoiding the inevitable, i.e. working on healing myself so I can feel HEALTHY attachment and love, not limerence. Until I heal myself, I will continue to be drawn to unhealthy people, even when they’re new LOs and seem perfect (once again).
Beth,
“In a way it doesn’t seem fair to the new person as it feels like I would be using them. ”
ITA. I mean, I guess if a limerent has a casual situation with a new person and both parties are on board that it is casual (the new person isn’t hoping for more), it may be ok. Could be a nice distraction. But to get into a serious relationship to get over an LO seems disingenuous. Like using someone else as a human band-aid. Unless the new person pretty much obliterates thoughts of the LO. I guess it’s possible but I don’t think likely. I think the limerent would have to be pretty much over the LO and the LE would have to be on the downward spiral for the limerent to be truly ready to commit seriously to someone else.
“Until I heal myself, I will continue to be drawn to unhealthy people …”
That is exactly what I did. New casual guy turned out to be slightly less unavailable and flim flammy/dodgy than my LO, but not much. In my case, I had to discover what limerence was, understand why I was limerent and, frankly, fix my picker. Working on all this. It’s a process. 🙂 Diving from one situation to another is not healthy. It’s ok to be one one’s own for a while. Unfortunately, it’s not common. A lot of people seem to go from one relationship to another.
Thank you Dr.L., for this thought provoking CoffeeHouse discussion on transference and the different aspects. I am also thankful to Beth and Marcia for their insight too into this situation so far.
The new relationship was one of life’s happenings and not a “strategy” or deliberate attempt or even wish to find a new LO. I agree wholeheartedly with Beth it is not possible for me” to turn limerence on at will” as such or eliminate the original LO. It was a circumstance of not “using” someone else but a genuine step to embrace life with someone new. Any transfer was unintentional. I naively thought the limerence and LO would fade over time and to some extent did until the LO contacted me after a long time. I also much later met him by accident. I realised how unfair this all is – for me, for my LO and then SO. As Beth says “healing” still needs to be done. And very much a path of self discovery as Marcia comments. I didn’t approach someone new, “diving in”. I thought, unwisely in retrospect, that I was more healed of limerence than I am and ready. My LO is struggling too from what he says. We each seem stuck in the “advanced connection” Dr.L wrote about as the third point. But each of is unable to be free, it appears so irresolvable. It is an unavailable universe. There is an impossibility about it all that as Marcia says being on one’s own for a time and seeking purposeful living as an approach may assist.
This is a very individual issue… as always!
I think have spent most of my life transferring my feelings from mild attractions to crushes to LE to relationships to crushes, etc, etc. The subsequent one fully extinguishes the preceding one although very few were full-on LEs. When they were a real relationships I gave myself whole-heartedly so was never being unfair to anyone. I would say I am perfectly healthy mentally and have no particular emotional healing to be done. I can contentedly live without if I need to but until marrying, I liked to, and chose to, live like that. And now I have hit mid-life it seems I this has a role to play in my life once more, and luckily it does not extinguish my feelings for SO.
I have experienced transference from LO #1 (a stranger) to LO #2 (a good friend). It wasn’t something I deliberately set out to do; it just worked out that way. One would think transferring to a new LO would be just replacing limerence for one person with another and therefore not solving the problem in any way. However, I am pleased to say that it did work for me as a harm reduction strategy to a certain extent. Limerence for a friend who was actually in my life and provided me with at least a little bit of validation (I didn’t become limerent for her until after she flirted with me a bit) felt far less bleak, hopeless and depressing than limerence for a stranger I’d only met once who showed me no interest or validation in any way. The limerence for LO #1 felt so much darker, depressing and all-consuming than it was for a friend I see every couple of weeks or so. No contact was so hard when it came to LO #1, but I never had to go no contact with LO #2 (although I had considered it a few times).
I am happy to say I believe I am now limerence-free (although I still like LO #2 a whole lot and I frankly still retain at least some affection for LO #1 as well), but in a strange twist of fate, I ended up getting to know one of LO #1’s best friends. She ended up flirting with me big time, and LO #1 actually ended up coming back into my life after an absence of over 2.5 years! We actually ended up all being on a night out together. LO #2 wasn’t there, but I can imagine LO #1, LO #2 and my glimmery friend all being out on a night out together at some point! What a strange coincidence and a small world.
As for not being able to be limerent for more than one person simultaneously, it kind of felt like I was limerent for both LO #1 and LO #2 for a month or two, but there was no question that it was a transitional period when my feelings for the first lady were waning and being replaced with feelings for the second one. However, I can point to a couple of nights when my feelings for LO #2 became much stronger, and my feelings for LO #1 were dramatically reduced as a result. I wouldn’t recommend transference as a deliberate strategy for getting rid of limerence — and I never deliberately set out for that to happen — but in my case at least it did work as a harm reduction strategy (i.e., replacing “heroin” with “methadone” — not that I think any less of LO #2 — quite the contrary actually). I would caution others thinking of doing something similar. However, I did end up experiencing a “soft landing” from limerence in the end. I still have a crush on LO #2, but it isn’t nearly as strong as it was a year ago or so. I am almost back to being myself, although I am upset about losing so much of the motivation for self-improvement I had at the height of my limerence. My marriage is still incredibly unsatisfying, but I still see no way out. Yet I still maintain that I will not actually physically cheat on my wife, no matter how bad things get between us and in terms of the family dynamic in general.
Boy this comment didn’t age well. Only 24 hours later, I find out LO #2 is seeing someone. I know this is entirely illogical, but I am absolutely heartbroken and raging with jealousy. I knew this day would come, and I told myself I would be alright with it, but in the end I wasn’t. Sure, the limerence isn’t as strong as it was a year ago, and I still stand by my comments about transference being harm reduction in my case, but who am I kidding? I’m still besotted with this woman. I am seriously considering no contact at this point.
Sorry VL, that must really hurt. I have been through that with two previous LOs when I was much younger.
Remind yourself that this pain is only temporary, it will soon pass if you let it. You will be fine. For me it lasted 2 weeks or so before reducing quickly. I generally avoided LO for that time but we were good friends and continued to be afterwards. So maybe a temporary NC or LC might help you. And as DrL always says, try to use that time purposefully, to build internal or external resources for yourself so you are not dependent on LO for happiness. Probably teaching my granny to suck eggs there but worth saying anyway!
Wishing you well.
Thanks Allie. The guy LO #2 is seeing is from out of town anyway. Because of that, I imagine I won’t be seeing her for the next couple of weeks or so at least, so that will likely help. Already I am feeling better than I was a couple of days ago when I first found out. Maybe this will turn out to be a blessing in disguise and help me to fully and completely get over LO #2?
I suspect you will still have a soft spot for her but I reckon the loss of hope will dial down the limerence dramatically. Certainly did for me.
“Question for the coffeehouse patrons: have you ever used transference for good or ill as a strategy for beating unwanted limerence?”
This is a good question. Dorothy Tennov seems to suggest in her book that (a) a limerent can only have one limerent object at a time and (b) transference to a new limerent object is only possible when a limerent episode is in its very early days i.e. before crystallisation has occurred and the emotional gates have slammed shut, or at the very end i.e. the obsession with Person A is basically over, so Person B gets to be “in the romance race” too with a fair chance of winning.
I personally agree with Tennov’s observations, although I’ve questioned the “one LO at a time” assertion many times. I’ve questioned the latter because I find many, many people physically attractive, and I’m very drawn to good looks.
I now believe I’ve only had one LO/LE in my life. However, I’ve experienced fleeting physical attractions or “crushes” on numerous human beings, and some of these crushes took place even during the high-water mark of my desire for LO. Entertainingly, all these “crushes” reminded me of my LO in some way. It’s like every man I found attractive more or less started resembling my LO. I wasn’t falling in love with folk because they were individuals, and markedly different to LO. Everything and everyone in my life – even exciting new crushes – still revolved around LO, evoked LO, took on qualities of LO. (This might be a good argument for still-limerent persons to avoid the dating scene until they’re feeling a little less obsessed).
I think Tennov’s take on transference has helped me make sense of my own relationship history. (I basically have no real-life relationship history, in hindsight, because my long-lasting fantasy bond with LO was apparently too engrossing!!) My limerence never sufficiently “waned” for transference to be possible. I always wanted the one man, just the one man. Everyone else was, um … irrelevant? Even a real-life flesh-and-blood partner was less interesting to me during limerence than the fantasy of LO, and I was completely single at the time!! 😛
I actually tried to date “someone legitimate” (i.e. someone available and non-confusing) at the height of my limerence for my unavailable/confusing LO, and let’s just say that the dating did not go well… (I lasted three whole weeks).
Long story short, I started having nightmares about the person I was seeing, and felt physically ill around him. There was absolutely nothing wrong with my date, by the way, either morally or physically. This spontaneous “aversion response” I believe was completely irrational. I think my lovesick brain just found the idea of an alternative love interest unacceptable. Revulsion for all alternative potential partners ensued, even though no one I encountered was objectively “revolting”…
When dipping my toe in the dating world, I felt like I was cheating on my LO, who I wasn’t actually with, and had never been with. I felt as if I was breaking some unwritten ancient law, and not being true to myself. My limerent brain was sabotaging my dating life, in other words!! I couldn’t move on emotionally from LO even though I was “going through the motions” of having a fun social life.
I’m not trying to offend anyone in what I write here, by the way. I’m merely trying to describe what happens when the human brain “locks” onto a singular focus, which may be a person, and refuses to let go. Perhaps we as a society need to delve more deeply into the power of fantasy to shape human aspirations, especially when that fantasy is based on and sometimes reinforced by reality?
This, to me, is the very essence of limerence: a fantasy that feels like real life, and even ends up being mistaken for real life by the limerent until the limerent “wakes up” from the beautiful, beautiful dream. I think limerence is an all-consuming, uncontrollable desire for a deep emotional attachment to a single person (LO) who has or who is perceived as having a “high mate value” by the limerent. The limerent wants to foster closeness with LO above all else. 😛
Is this the Sammy of yore? 🙂 Where have you been?
My experience mirrors yours. I was hyper-focused on LO to the exclusion of any other possibilities. (But unlike you, I am not attracted to that many people. I mean, I find other people attractive, but the feelings usually don’t rise to the level of “I am going to get off my butt and do something about it.” The interest isn’t strong enough. It’s just eye candy to ogle. :)) I went on a handful of dates during my LE. I had no real interest. I did starting dating someone briefly in about the middle part of my LE, but he was only existed in terms of his connection to LO. They were friends, and, yes, I dated him to make LO jealous. And, yes, revulsion is a good term. I don’t know how I got through it, particularly sexually. I started to detach myself and thought I would try new things/techniques that I could use when I finally got my hands on LO. I was delusional. I was NEVER going to get my hands on LO. I was able to date someone and see him as a whole person, separate from LO, once I got to the end of the LE. Was he like LO? Not in terms of personality but not much better in terms of flim-flammy, non-committal behavior. So I was repeating the situation, minus the limerence. Just a strong crush that was exponentially easier to get over. What I mean is … this guy is what I call an “ineligible. ” Not suitable for anything serious. What’s ironic is that some of the one-off dates I had during the LE were with “eligibles.” Two I know went on to marry other women. I wasn’t surprised. I could sense they were “on the market.” I almost think that their being eligible diminished their value in my mind. No challenge. No barriers. Too clingy. Too obvious. I write this all in hindsight, of course.
Oh hey, nice to see you on here again !
Oof, every thing you wrote rings true to me. One LO in my life, except that I did have a relationship with him and it was mutual limerence that ended mega badly.
Even with zero contact for the last 1.5 years and with seeing LO as poison, and mostly hoping I never see him again, my brain still feels sick and locked in. I have been unable to go on so much as a single date. It doesn’t keep me up at night or any thing, I do not feel the need to have a partner, but it worries me how long this obsession is taking to subside. I have found some men – very – attractive but the idea of physically or emotionally being with them feels somewhat revolting and like you said like it would be cheating.
It is completely ridiculous but it is also very real, and I am aware of it enough to have the integrity to not date any one right now and hurt them. Trying to “transfer” at this point feels like it would be useless but also just really selfish, hurting another person to hide from my own sickness.
So I am determined to get better the good way, purposeful living and all. It is hard but it feels like the only real and decent way forward.
Damn, the “emotionally sabotaging my current relationship” – part sounds highly familiar.
Neither my Ex nor my current partner are bad in any objective way – but at some point, my mind and my feelings have been completely sabotaging the relationship. Always with a “you know, it’s been many years – but maybe LO likes you now?” thought in the back of my mind, as soon as any small thing was amiss.
Transference has worked for me lately to break away from a person who I needed to get away from, because he had strong narcissistic traits. I was in a situation which was destroying my physical health. (I’m so grateful to Dr. Ramani!)
But I didn’t transfer my love to another person, instead I connected with my inner companion, call it guardian angel, spirit guide, an old soul from a past life or whatever. Using my imagination, I can feel the unconditional love that this being has for me. And I’m also beginning to love myself more, which seems quite miraculous to me. In time I’m hoping to become immune to seeking love outside of myself, out of an inner loneliness, which I believe has been causing the limerence phenomemon for me.
Maybe I can eventually meet someone at eye-level and connect slowly and in a healthy way before deciding to risk another close attachment.
“Transference depends on kindling that glimmer for a new LO, as a way of stealing fuel from the old LO.“
I used transference effectively. I was in the darkest stage of limerence for my LO#2. I was drowning in intrusive thoughts and uncertainty. That LE was miserable; it was the LE that brought me to this website. One of Dr. L’s articles mentioned transference and I was desperate enough to try it. I noticed that a likable acquaintance had begun to show me attention and I made the conscious decision to lean into the relationship with him. It blossomed into a lovely friendship and a mild LE for me. Things are going quite well with my now LO#3. He is very attentive so there’s no uncertainty and I made a conscious effort to minimize fantasies about him so the intrusive thoughts are minimal. I am fortunately able to maintain a friendship with LO#2 now as well. I also channel all that sexual energy into my relationship with my SO which is working nicely. It appears to be a win for everyone.
Here is an update for anyone who is considering transferring their LE to a new LO. It is still working. The new LE is very mild and I frequently question if I have limerence for him or if it is just a friendship.
I didn’t consciously try to transfer my limerence, but apparently I did – and got rid of it!
I’ve had a fully blow limerence for a former study mate 9 years ago. I’ve often thought that I was over her, had healthy relationships, was living purposefully – but in dark moments or when there were problems in my relationship, yearning for LO was back.
A few months ago, a very attractive woman approached me while I was out abroad in a club. We’ve been getting along really well, I liked her personality (also her type, INFPs who learned to be outgoing are my favorite), I kissed her and we’ve been texting a lot after that.
At some point, I told my GF and cut contact. After I broke up with my GF, I contacted her again and LO2 told me very clearly that she doesn’t want to have anything to do with me, isn’t interested and doesn’t want me to contact her.
During the whole time: No thoughts about LO1. It’s been a mess overall and I’ve been feeling horrible – but through transference + extinction, it seems like my limerence is gone.
The problem with LO1 was that she used to be my best friend and made a very powerful subconscious gesture after which I got the fully own LE. So I wasn’t able to let go of the thought that at some point we’ll meet again and she’d love be ’cause she’s my soul mate/ twin flame/ yadda yadda 😀
I tried transference a few months back. 25 years ago, before I met my SO, I was in a short but intense love affair with a young lady from another country. We were both quite taken with each other but I was never fully limerent for her. I actually ended up choosing my wife over her due to basic convenience, my wife wasn’t 3000 miles away. But once Facebook came into existence in about 2010 we reconnected and had some correspondence over that year. By then she was married also with a kid and eventually a few months later the correspondence fizzled. She has since divorced, and I am still married.
So about 6 months back when I started to feel the turmoil of my current LE I reached back out to her to say hi and to see if she wanted to talk again. My main goal in this was to transfer my feelings of infatuation from my current LO whom I have to coexist with a few days a week to someone who I know I have had romantic feelings for but who is not in proximity to me.
Well, she acknowledged my initial message and said it was nice to hear from me. But when I messaged back a longer update on life a few days later she ghosted me. I did message her to wish her a happy birthday a few weeks back, and she responded with a heart emoji, but she has not conversed with me at all. I have decided to let it lie at this point.
I should say, this was a purely selfish thing for me to do, because I was looking only to better my situation and LE without consideration of how it may affect this other woman. Don’t feel particularly proud of it.
I transferred from my original LO to another girl. That was actually a brief romance, but I lost interest. I then transferred to yet another girl, but that was a dead end too. Both these new LOs were better propositions than the original LO (I at least stood a chance). But now, with every other girl out of the picture, my original LO is still there, glimmering away. Except now, she’s been a friend throughout my other disastrous romances. She watched me courting the other girls, encouraged me in those relationships even.
My feeling for her is burning like a low flame but about to burst, except now she feels even more precious to me because of our friendship. I don’t want to lose her, but I don’t want to be longing for her the way I was with no hope at all.