My father died last week.
I’m now immersed in a new world that I was previously unaware of – or rather, a world that always existed alongside me but that I could blissfully ignore. Funeral directors, medical certificates, registrars, deadlines, regulations and costs. The business of death.
That is a distraction from the real business of death, of course. Loss and grief.
Since starting this blog, I have become very practiced at analysing my own feelings and thoughts. The psychologists call this “metacognition” and it’s now become second nature for me. Even through grief, there is a protected part of me – a curious scientist – that is observing and noting and processing what I am going through. That part of me also keeps trying to relate the experience of grief to the lessons I learned during limerence.
While it might not seem obvious how wild romantic infatuation and deep personal loss are connected, there are a surprising number of intersections. Even more useful, the differences between the two experiences help illustrate why limerence is distinct from other causes of psychological distress, and why the coping strategies should also be different.
With that preamble out of the way, I have to admit that my little inner scientist is presently rather dazed. Consequently, my thoughts about grief and limerence are a bit haphazard, but never mind, let’s just stumble through it.
1. An altered mental state
Both limerence and grief are altered mental states. In both cases, we have been confronted with an emotional assault so powerful that we cannot think straight. Everyday life is derailed. Thoughts become disorderly – sometimes racing, sometimes sluggish. Mood swings hit unexpectedly. One thought dominates all others.
Coping with that dramatic disruption to normality often involves running on autopilot – that strange mental fugue of going-through-the-motions while your internal world is in turmoil.
The obvious difference, of course, is that grief is all about loss, whereas limerence is also about excitement (at least in the early stages). The happiness of being with loved-ones before they died isn’t like the manic energy of limerence. The mental state of grief is not one of exhilaration.
Late-stage limerence has much more in common with grief – especially disenfranchised grief – because the loss of a romantic dream is a major factor in the pain of hopeless or unrequited limerence. Although I haven’t got there yet, I suspect that late-stage grief will feel more like unresolved limerence – not so sharp or present a pain, more like happy memories commingled with sadness.
2. Limerence flares up during grief
I have heard from several people who succumbed to limerence during a period of bereavement. This has not been my experience, fortunately, but I can understand how it happens. The agony of grief is scouring, and any strategy for mood repair that presents itself is seized upon.
Another impact of grief for me has been the added potency of life-affirming experiences. Hearing about the birth of my barber’s child had extra significance, as it seemed like a rebuke to death. Romantic songs had added poignancy. The joy of children playing in the park seemed more vivid.
The world is darker during grief. Who wouldn’t want to flee the shadow?
3. Intrusive thoughts
Another overlap is the presence of intrusive thoughts. Memories appear unbidden. It’s like your conscious mind is not in sync with your subconscious, which wants to serve you urgent thoughts for its own reasons, but which end up battering your peace of mind.
Again, the obvious difference between limerence and grief is that you are not being urged to seek reward so much as being assailed by loss. There is definitely a sense of trying to recover previous happiness in both cases, but it turns out our subconscious is not really built to deal with irreversible change. There’s a part of you that can’t really believe that some losses are permanent, and keeps trying to prompt you not to give up.
4. Physical symptoms
My heart aches all the time at the moment. It’s actually very similar to when I was wrestling with limerence, as it’s the cumulative effects of stress, lack of sleep, overarousal and burnout. That my father died of a heart attack adds a little dash of scary-spice.
The link between psychological and physical manifestations of pain is complex and interesting. Internal emotional turmoil causes similar embodied responses, regardless of the cause.
5. Coping strategies
The parallels between grief and limerence are clear, but there is a critical distinction. As with other mental health conditions that have features in common with limerence – such as OCD, bipolar disorder, insecure attachments – grief does not stem from desire for a reward, it stems from anxiety and distress.
Things get muddled when limerence transitions from exhilarating highs to compulsive lows, but the driving force that starts the whole process running is the desire to secure blissful union. That’s why I think limerence is better viewed as a behavioural addiction than an anxiety or mood disorder.
Coping with limerence is therefore mostly about recognising and countering the habits and behaviours that reinforce the addictive craving. That isn’t appropriate for grief. You don’t want to reprogram yourself out of the altered mental state by neutralising or reframing potent memories or experiences. It would only compound the loss.
Instead, the hope with grief is to navigate a path to the future where your happy memories are still bright, you remember the person you have lost with love and gratitude, but you can reconcile yourself to the sadness that will forever infuse the past.
I’ve not got there yet. It’s only a week from the loss, and a month from the first sense of impending disaster, but I can believe it’s possible, and I’m confident that purposeful living is the way I will manage it.
My rational brain tells me that this is the natural order of things and that time will lessen the pain.
But right now, I just really miss him.
Dear Dr.L
I for one appreciate your determination to keep up your Saturday posts so close to losing your Father. I hope you find whatever support and comfort you need at this very sad time. I recognise the stark truth when you say that a powerful experience of late stage limerence can cause the same level of grief as a family bereavement.
Both involve the loss of a loved one as far as our fragile hearts and minds are concerned. The death of a parent is the ultimate permanent inaccessibility of a loved one, while limerence can still torture us with their existence somewhere out there in the world. Take care of yourself and know the courage to acknowledge pain and recover is high humanity and your work here on LWL to help others is high humanity too. I send you my heartfelt condolences. Mike
I’m so sorry for what you’re going through now. Thanks for finding the time to write your blog, which I enjoy reading each week.
The three events I’ve experienced in life that have caused me the most pain and misery are, in no particular order:
1. Limerence
2. Loss of my career
3. Grief over someone who died suddenly at a young age from a medical condition (have suffered other bereavements, but all of people who were old and prepared for death)
All of them involved the ‘five stages of grief’ but recovering from bereavement I actually found was in the long term something positive that after the initial pain led to a great deal of healing creativity and starting new projects. I now remember who I lost and the time we had together fondly and as something precious that will be mine alone for the rest of my life that can never be taken from me.
As for the loss of my career and the times I’ve suffered with limerence, I remember those negatively and feel that the career was the wrong choice for me all along and that being limerent was a waste of my time. The potential of those LOs and that career were taken from me and I don’t particularly want the memories they left behind. I had to ‘age out’ of the grief rather than heal from it, and the new skills I learnt and projects I started were motivated by the necessity of having to do something rather than a genuine sense of inspiration.
Peace and healing to you.
The usual words seem clichéd so I’ll put it this way. If we were acquaintances in real life,
I’d take you out for a pint.
I’d go to his service.
If you needed a pallbearer, it would be an honor.
You’ve done so much for us, we’d we wish we could do more for you.
I’ve been reading for a while but never commented before.
I just wanted to say thank you and condolences.
Very sorry to hear of your loss. I’m pretty new hear so I dont know you as well sir as other commenters. But your post both about limerence and grief are helpful. My folks are healthy now but getting up in age and I get dreadful thoughts of the future and coping with the inevitable.
I didnt even know what limerence was until I found this community. I suffered it over a year before getting here, not knowing what was wrong with me. But finding your posts here finally gave me the information and courage to broach my condition with my wife in hopes we can overcome it together as husband and wife. There are no words that can thank you enough for this.
If you are any reflection of your father, the world and humanity is less of ourselves without him.
Oh Dr. L!
I’m so sorry.
This is the hardest time, things will become less painful as you know. But the thought of the pain you’re going through presently does break my heart.
A few years ago I unexpectedly lost my Mum and it seemed the pain would be an unwelcome bedfellow forever, but the pain has largely dulled, replaced with endearing memories and a clarity as to the value of the life lessons she taught me. I agree that the “subconscious is not really built to deal with irreversible change”, and I do personally entertain the hope of a reversing.
Thank you for correlating grief and limerence so eloquently, I experienced both simultaneously, they became intertwined, and the comprehensive scope of grieving was temporarily delayed.
Now limerence is over and the hardest part of grieving is too, and looking back, I am glad I took some time off work, got lots of sleep, and immersed myself in the volunteer work I love. Initially I also somehow managed to mention during any human or phone contact that my “mother has just passed away” and somehow the simple “oh I’m sorry”, even from strangers, was immensely comforting.
Grief and limerence are most certainly altered mental states and caution is needed when making major decisions etc when under the influence of either.
May this this acute phase of grief be attended by the love of those close to you, and know that you have our support and compassion and gratitude.
So sorry to hear Dr.L
I lost my mom to a heart attack, so I can relate.
Yes, I agree that grief from loosing a loved one and grief from Limerence is quite different.
But grief is grief and we must be gentle with ourselves during the process.
I can speak for myself and I bet everyone else here that your blog is a sanctuary for us.
I find my Limerent Brain can almost take a break while I’m here, and it helps that I know I’m not alone.
God Bless You and take Care of Yourself
-Anna
So sorry DrL. Wishing you well. x
My first comment here, but feel I owe something in return for the huge source of comfort I get from these pages every week. Thank you DrL for all your work. To keep it up right now is beyond the call of duty. But it is hugely appreciated. I have not yet felt grief though death of a very close loved one, so I can’t offer anything on that. But over the last couple of years I have been gripped with my first episode of limerence. Despite normal healthy relationships and a happy marriage, I never experienced anything like this current infatuation. I thought I was alone, going mad, etc. So I want to thank you for helping me understand it, and to try to combat it. And thanks to all the other contributors here as well, who I find are thoughtful and constructive, as evidenced especially this time in the replies to DrL.
Sorry for your loss DR L. Wishing you well also! Take care of yourself first and foremost.
I’m so sorry for your loss, DrL. My deepest condolences. Thank you for your typically thoughtful reflections at a time when you have so much to deal with, emotionally and practically. Sending you love as you grieve the loss of your father. TP x
I’m very sorry for your loss dr L, I just want to say thanks for this website you have set up its helped alot. I wanted to mention whilst reading alot of articles, sexual attraction and beauty seems to be a big part of limerance however in my situation I have actually never been sexually attracted to LO infact I desperately tried to come up with excuses to find her attractive but I simply don’t whatsoever in contrast I have not been limerant at all for beautiful women, has anyone else had an lo who they arnt attracted to all or heard about a similar scanario I honestly feel like I’m the only one!
Me.
Fell for a smart but very ugly son of a *****. (Sorry for this graphic description but it is really at its place as he was and ugly and, as shown up later, deceptive.)
As far as I am concerned, it all came down to a meeting of souls/minds. I felt understood in a very particular way. That was it for me, looks didn’t matter at all (sapiosexual).
Wrong choice, as that person was not authentic: all was a farce, a charade, ment to hook me on.
Me too Draga.
Mine was nice looking tho ( so I thought anyway)
Smooth talker, future faker, love bomber..All the signs of a Narcissist.
Turned out he was. But wow, the connection we had!!
I’m glad the trash took it self out.
My Limerence is fading thank goodness
More angry at myself than anything!
Dr L
A short note to send you condolences.
This website (your work) has been a saviour for me in the last 5-6 weeks.
Thank you.
Dr. L,
I just want to say I am sorry for your loss. You are a wonderful, generous, kind person. Thank you so much for your page and your help along this (sometimes) very arduous path.
I hope you find the kind of consolation you need at this time because you deserve it.
Thank you
I am sorry for your loss Dr. L. Wishing you and your loved ones strength.
I wanted to send my condolences, Dr. L; I’m so very sorry for your loss.
You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers
I am so sorry for your loss, Dr. L.; my deepest condolences to you and your family.
This comment is not related to the topic of this week’s post but is rather a general request that I would like to make of the post’s author, whom I will address directly.
Dr. L, while I think that your weekly posts are often very insightful and offer effective advice, it worries me to see “fit”/conventionally attractive people overwhelmingly represented in the images that accompany them. Of course, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with images of these people appearing in posts that deal with the nature of romantic attraction; I am merely saying that such images would ideally appear with a frequency that’s closer to reflecting real life.
While I make this request sincerely, I acknowledge your right to take it with as much of as little weight as you see fit.
I believe the pictures are typically taken from an archive of stock images that Dr. L probably had a paid subscription to. The trouble with these stock photo archives is that they tend to feature conventionally attractive people. It would be difficult for bloggers to have to pay multiple subscriptions to find a good diversity of photo subjects. But I would encourage you to also appeal to these stock photo archives so they also start providing more variety in their available images.
My condolences Dr. L. I am very sorry to learn about your loss.
Dr. L,
Having suffered the loss myself, I wish you strength and peace during this difficult time. Your resilience in being able to still dedicate yourself to all on this site is awe inspiring and I appreciate your willingness to provide solace to all of us in the face of your grief.
I hope that your grief evolves quickly into fond memories and touching moments. There is comfort in their presence in our memories, but it takes time to get there. I pray that your time in reaching that point is brief.
Thank you for all that you do.
I don’t have much to say other than I am so very sorry to hear about your loss, Dr. L. You have provided incredibly valuable support to this community and a wonderful forum to discuss limerence. I may only be an occasional visitor nowadays, but you helped me tremendously. My deepest condolences to you and your family!
Sorry to hear about the loss of your father, Dr. L. Deepest sympathies to you and your family.
You are not wrong in drawing parallels between the human experience of grief and limerence. There is a website called “The Marginalian”, written by a woman called Maria Popova. She only has a couple of articles on limerence, mostly inspired by an interest in the life of poet Emily Dickinson it seems, but the articles featured are impressively well-written.
Popova seems to believe that grief is indeed limerence’s “closest kin”. And the reason that grief and limerence are so similar, she argues, is due to the tendency of both conditions to be “intrusive” and to “invade consciousness against will”.
I don’t think I’ve ever experienced true grief, as in grief that is intrusive and debilitating, although I have experienced bereavements multiple times. However, I think someone who is non-limerent but who has experienced true grief, may be in a unique position to empathise with the suffering of a limerent loved one. 🤔
I would like to quote my favourite paragraph of Popova’s, if I may, because it is so good, even though it doesn’t touch directly on grief. I just feel she sums up obsessive love so beautifully, and explains why it can be less-than-ideal, particularly for the recipient:
“Anyone who has ever experienced limerence — a staggering more-than-third of the population, although everyone undergoing it feels alienated, alone, and abnormal — feels the instant relief of recognition. Anyone who has never experienced it feels baffled that a state so illogical can so possess otherwise rational and responsible people with no distinct psychopathology. Anyone who has found themselves on the receiving end of it — a ‘limerent object’ — has shared in being at first flattered, then frustrated, then even furious at being so unpeeled from the reality of themselves in the ensnared eyes of the other.”
I’m not sure why Popova claims a third of the population experiences limerence. (Did Tennov suggest that figure in book possibly?) But I like how Popova encourages us to see limerence simultaneously through the eyes of both the LO and the limerent. I.e. limerence can turn out to be extremely “uncomfortable” for both parties. shall we say? 😉
I feel limerence is more love for an ideal than love for an actual flesh-and-blood person. And when we grieve the loss of an LO, because they ghosted us or whatever, I think we are grieving the loss perhaps of some of our own ideals? We are grieving the loss of what could have been or what we would have liked to have been. 😇
I cannot believe that I stumbled upon your blog. It’s a life saver that I know I can now savour. I just lost my father suddenly in February whilst deep in a state of limerance over an LO that will also soon be leaving the country. Of course, this LO has provided absolutely none of the real support that i secretly craved at this difficult time. I find that I am now in a deep state of mourning. I’m ashamed to say that not only am I grieving over the death of my father who meant the world to me. I am also “grieving” over this LO . It’s all very dark and depressing and I’m feeling exceptionally lonely. Bur I’m determined to come out of this state of limerance and am now on NC. Thank you for your blog – it’s like stumbling upon a precious jewel.
I’m very very sorry for your loss – I know exactly how it feels. Pl accept my deepest condolences.
I’m so sorry for your loss Dr L. Wishing you and your family well.
My deepest condoleances with your father, Dr.L
~~~~~~
That metacognition Dr.L mentioned I call “the split” (in absence of better description). At least this method works for me the best. I taught it to myself, found the way intuitively as I red/learned from different sources and it works for me.
I use to split myself in two:
– the one who is walking, talking and doing things, putting myself in (social) situations;
– the one who is consciously (mindfully?(although this word is overused to distortion)) ‘floating’ above, whatching from a distance what the other part of me down there has been doing on ‘an operational level’, evaluating processes, how am I being treated, how am I feeling, other people in the picture, group dynamics etc.
This method helps me standing still:
to detect thoughts and emotions undisturbed, that would otherwise go under radar.
The ‘floating one’ from above makes definite decisions.(Not the one caught in daily struggles/emotions.) Simply depersonalize and, cool minded, decide what I think and feel is the best.
This technique gave me plenty of insights, srof-kniwledge and saved me several mistakes of all different kinds.
Source/inspiration for this ‘split’ technique I have found in one of many philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer’s books, The Essays bundle (free to download on Project Guttenberg web page). Although I adapted it a bit.
The original goes as follows:
“ If you wish to get a clear and profound insight—and it is very needful—into the true but melancholy elements of which most men are made, you will find in a very instructive thing to take the way they behave in the pages of literature as a commentary to their doings in practical life, and vice versa. The experience thus gained will be very useful in avoiding wrong ideas, whether about yourself or about others. But if you come across any special trait of meanness or stupidity—in life or in literature,—you must be careful not to let it annoy or distress you, but to look upon it merely as an addition to your knowledge—a new fact to be considered in studying the character of humanity. Your attitude towards it will be that of the mineralogist who stumbles upon a very characteristic specimen of a mineral.”
So he also sugest certain sort of split, distance, depersonalisation anticipating people/situations.
The adaptation I have made on this is to observe not other people, but myself in different situations. A bit detached and from a distance, in order to get a clearer view.
(I hope I explained my own metacognitive technique clear enough, as English is my 3rd language, so please have mercy if any logical or other faults.)
A group of students at Case Western Reserve University once asked Kurt Vonnegut what life is all about, and he delivered the answer: “We are here to help each other get through this thing…whatever it is.”
Just as much as you have helped me manage my decades-long limerence, I could only imagine you’ve emulated this helpful nature and many other honourable traits from your late father, Dr. L. My deepest condolences to you and your family.
I have been lurking from time to time for the last 2 years but never commented.
Thank you for your insightful articles, they are really a lifesaver. Also I am very sorry about your loss Dr L.
Hear Hear, Kaoru!
An altruistic and inspirational man.
I am so sorry for your loss.
I’m not sure where I would be without having read (and re-read) these blogs together with many of the comments of people experiencing this sometimes overwhelming phenomenon.
I re-read this article tonight because I’ve been thinking about grief a lot these past few weeks as I’ve been dealing with the end of my emotional affair with LO and grief has become my dominant experience since she ended things pretty conclusively 3 weeks ago.
I’ve had one past experience with profound, earth-shattering grief. About 5 years ago, my wife and I had a baby who was born with a severe medical condition. He lived for 1 week in a NICU incubator, until we got the news that there was no chance of survival and it was time to take him off life support. We got to hold him for the first and only time, and he literally died in my arms with my wife sitting next to me.
As you can imagine, the grief was like nothing else. The week he was alive was a raw mix of hope and anxiety, of love for this tiny person and dreams about his future alternating with the constant fears of him not surviving. When he died, all of the anxiety was wiped away along with all of the hope and dreams, to be replaced with an absolutely overwhelming sense of grief and loss. The tears would not stop. I remember having absolutely no idea how I’d be able to drive us home from the hospital that night, or wake up the next morning and care for our other child.
For the first days, the grief was everything. My wife and I were everything for each other – I’d break down sobbing and she’d hold me close, then she’d break down and I’d hold her. We spent time with good friends and that helped. We found support groups, attended therapy, went for long walks, practiced yoga, read books by other grieving parents. Eventually the grief was only sometimes. I could smile again, laugh again, indulge in happy thoughts about the future, although the slightest thing would remind me and I’d break down again.
At one point, I realized that I was actually intentionally holding on to feelings of grief. I’d find myself intentionally ruminating on his death to make myself cry, because letting go of the grief felt like letting go of the love I’d felt for him. The grief was all I had left of him, and so I held onto it longer and tighter than I needed to because I didn’t want to let go of that last link to him. Eventually I found ways to let go. I wrote a heartfelt eulogy for him and delivered it at his memorial service. I got his picture tattooed on my arm. Little by little, I allowed myself to let go of the grief and move forward.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot recently, because the things I’ve been feeling with the end of my relationship with LO and her impending move away from our workplace feel almost identical to the grief I felt at the loss of our son. I think it sounds crazy to say that, disrespectful even, but it’s true. The feelings come from the same place inside me. The tears are the same tears. The sense of loss, the loss of a person but also the loss of of hope and dreams and love, it just feels the same.
My psychologist said this is actually really normal. That once a person has experienced one major grief, any subsequent losses will awaken those past feelings and compound them. I definitely believe this is true.
Obviously one difference is the disenfranchised aspect of this current grief. I can’t mourn this loss with my wife. I can’t lean on friends and family and coworkers and church members for support. It’s just me and my 2x per month psychologist and you guys. I don’t know where I’d be without you all.
And of course, I’m well aware of just how freaking awful it is that I’ve spent the last 6 months being emotionally unfaithful to my wife after what we’ve been through, after what she’s been through. It’s horribly unfair to her, and leads me to have a lot of questions about what kind of person I actually am. I guess all I can say in my defense is that I’m pretty damaged, I’m working on getting better, and I am fully committed to working on my marriage and being there for my wife forever.
For what it’s worth, I’m sending virtual hugs your way, Lost in Space. I’m sorry about your loss. The loss of a child is so hard. And I know losing an LO before you’re ready is hard, too. I’m sorry you can’t talk about it with the people who you’re closest to.
Oh LiS, that’s awful. I’m so sorry.
Dear Dr. L,
I just stumbled upon your article. First, still, my condoleances on the loss of your father. I hope time is working to heal.
My dad died three weeks ago.
It catapulted me into a limerence state. I’m excited, exhausted and restless. And then suddenly deep sadness pops its head up.
I never realised this is how I deal with loss. A big limerence came over me too after my boyfriend of 7 years broke up with me many years ago, so I see a pattern.
It’s good to read I’m not the only one seeing the connection between limerence and grief.
Thank you for this website and your insights.
All the best,
A.
PS. As a young girl I searched for sth like this, but internet was still young too and I couldn’t find anything on this strange, hypomanic infatuated state. So hard to believe now!
I’m so sorry to hear of your loss, Dr. L. I can empathise, as I lost my big brother to cancer nearly three years ago. I feel that was one of the major catalysts for my latest LE.
I understand that there’s nothing that anyone can say that will take away the pain, but you perhaps can take some comfort that your work has helped innumerable people deal with their own pain. I’m very thankful for what you’ve built here.
I don’t I understand why I have to learn this lesson over and over. I feel so much guilt and anger at myself for feeling this intense grief for something that never existed. It seems like the end this time, but I’ve said that before.
Wow.
First let me say, I am so very sorry for your loss. I have just found your blog for the first time through a random google search and I’m fascinated, and pouring over your posts. It’s also incredibly helpful, as I am currently in the process of re-writing a one-woman show about my first experience of limerence and how it transformed me. I had to click this one. Having experienced both grief and limerence AT THE SAME TIME, I wholeheartedly.
My experience has been a wild ride, to say the least.
My first experience of limerence was in 2020, when, at the time, my long-term monogamous relationship was 15 years old. Something I never thought or imagined I would experience. As short as it was, it was profoundly powerful and devastating, and it forever changed me. I went through a couple more cycles that were more short-lived and artificial (unfortunately they were with genuinely shitty people who cared nothing for me but also they were entirely virtual because we were in different states…) but I sure as hell learned a lot.
My most recent one was in the summer of ’21.
Yes, this was limerence. But God, it bloomed into a deep and profound love. Alas, we learned pretty quickly that we were, sadly, incompatible – he was not into any kind of multiple-partner dynamic, he wanted marriage and kids and I didn’t, and my long-term partner, although we were fully open and communicative about the situation, was not comfortable with me continuing to pursue anything with my LO unless he was also going to be present/involved. Square pegs into round holes.
Of course, it was too late… I was completely in love with him and I desperately wanted to find some way to have two boyfriends….and although my partner had expressed his discontent, I was continuing to toe the line of continuing – for the most part – to do what I wanted to do when I was with my LO.
In terms of physical intimacy, we didn’t do everything… but we did a lot. He’s the most intimate I’d ever been with anyone since my long-term partner (who, to this day, remains the only man I’ve slept with, and I the only woman he’s slept with.) We treasured this rare aspect of our relationship for a long time….. it’s shifted quite a bit. It remains the same for him. My perspective has shifted a great deal.
In September of ’21, my sister died from fentanyl. My world was blown apart, upside down. People showed up. They were incredibly loving and supportive and trying to just do whatever they could to support me and be what I needed.
The one, singular person who was not showing up – and who I wanted to more than anything was, of course, my LO. This being my first major loss, I had no scope of how to carry myself through it. No toolkit, no “break glass in case of emergency.” I was just surviving. I had absolutely no way of knowing or understanding that some people simply do not know how to support someone who is grieving. I genuinely wasn’t expecting him to “do” anything. All I wanted was to be with him. To be next to him. In his arms. He’d already been pulling away prior to my sister’s death, but I refused to believe he was actually capable of staying away.
I thought for sure he was already addicted, already hooked like I was, and certainly we were going to come back together, as we previously had when he tried to put a halt on things before…. I of course understood that me being in the throes of grief significantly shifted the landscape. But he’d seen me cry before. He’d held space for me to be vulnerable. Why, then, couldn’t he do it now?? I just could not understand.
I of course was aware that he struggled with chronic depression, anxiety and ADHD. (When we first started seeing each other, he told me he’d just started therapy and meds.) I did not know the depth of it. He only shared so much, and only let people around him see so much. I was gentle and patient. Even when I confronted him about his absence and lack of communication, I chose my words so carefully. I’m not saying I was perfect, but I was fair and I was honest. He couldn’t take any accountability and just took my words as a personal attack. It caused an incredibly painful fallout. I was really the lowest I’d ever been in my life at that time. I was incredibly lucky to have my partner and my friends present and supporting me through it all.
About a month went by without communication…. we eventually started talking again, and then we reconciled. It was exactly what I wanted….he pulled me into his arms, gave a tender and sincere apology, and then…. I could see it in his eyes, but I still waited for him to say it…. he still wanted to kiss me. I wanted this, too. We did. It was everything I wanted. It didn’t go any further than that – this was also as I wanted, as from my point of view… he’d still failed the ultimate test, and any trust I may have had in him was shattered….but I still wanted him. Still wanted to be with him….even though I understood the myriad of reasons why that was not feasible….I knew he couldn’t give me what I wanted or needed, but I could not un-love him. We both openly acknowledged that this was difficult, as our relationship was forever altered…. couldn’t un-ring the bell and all that….and we genuinely weren’t sure of how best to move forward, but at least now we felt we could maintain more healthy and honest communication, and as long as we both wanted to, we would essentially figure it out.
There were times in the following months when he was genuinely great at being completely straightforward about what was going on, and then other times when he’d drop off again for a few days, apologize for dropping off, and the cycle would repeat. I was realizing – slowly- that this was a painful thing I was either going to have to get used to or put a permanent end to, otherwise I was going to have to get comfortable continuously not getting my needs met and to keep getting hurt.
Finally, in May of ’22, there was a period when he was being cagey and vague about what was going on…. when the best explanation he could give was “It’s complicated,” I immediately knew that something was very wrong. I came down a little harder on him than I previously would have and told him if he couldn’t be honest with me, then we couldn’t maintain any kind of….well, anything really. He finally invited me over. It was then that he told me he’d been feeling suicidal. I didn’t know what to say or do. I’d never been confronted with this before. I got very emotional and apologized for being hard on him….he said there was no need to apologize and that I couldn’t have known.
He said he had a hard time asking for help because he hated the stigma, and hated the way people would look at him and treat him whenever he was honest about his suicidality. I told him I understood….that I wasn’t there to fix him or save him….just that I cared about him and I would be devastated if anything happened to him. I reminded him that I lived four minutes down the road from him. He had my number. He knew my usual bedtime was 4 am. I was only a call or text away. He said he understood and appreciated that I was there for him. I did not want to let go of him. I tried to get him to look at me…. he couldn’t hold my gaze for more than a few seconds. I never said “I love you” only because by then I knew…. he was not in a place to receive it, let alone reciprocate. I’d said just about everything else to him that would translate the same way…..I knew what would happen if I said the words themselves…..but I did just about everything else to let him know. I told him I had deep and tender feelings for him. I asked if he felt them for me. He said yes. I stayed until he insisted he had to go to bed….it was about 3 or 4 am. If I’d known that was going to be the last time, I would have refused to leave. I would have held him all night.
He completed suicide on July 22nd.
It feels fruitless to try and put words to what this feels like.
I know, though, that I did love him, and I do, and I will, forever. It’s not because of his death that I know that. But I also know that my grief would not be as deep and harrowing and soul-crushing as it has been if I didn’t.
I can say that I didn’t experience any personal guilt or remorse. I know that I was powerless to prevent or alter it. I understand why he made that choice. I just wish he’d made a different one.
I’m not sure that I can or will ever love anyone like that again. My partner is still here, and he is understanding, supportive, loving…. he is just about everything I could ask for. I’m incredibly blessed.
I’ve been very proactive in processing my grief. Suicide grief is a very different animal. I knew I was going to have to be proactive if I had any hope of getting through it. The waves were going to be 15 ft high for awhile no matter what, but I knew that the more I chose to ride them, the sooner I would start seeing 10, 5, 3, 2 ft waves. I absolutely still get the 15s. But they are less frequent and they pass more quickly. Grief is nonlinear and is so very different for everyone. I’ve been able to give myself a lot of what I’ve needed and really learned what it means to literally just take it one day, one moment at a time.
Lastly, I will say I cannot recommend the podcast Good Mourning highly enough. That has been the single greatest discovery I’ve made through all of this, and it has helped me tremendously. They also have a book and an instagram page. I’ve been sharing them with all my fellow grievers (as it turns out, when you’re grieving, you find many) so I hope you might check it out and that it will help you too. And if you read my entire novel, THANK YOU. I look forward to reading more of your blog. <3
Wish I could edit my comment, lol.
Just to clarify, it was July 22nd of last year.
My condolences. Just came across this as I am pretty new here. Grief is such a heart ripping mechanism and yes losing a loved one to death is different than LE, even though there are similarities. In my experiences, grief does change your brain. I lost my first SO over thirty years ago. We were young and had the whole world before us. Then he was taken from me and died suddenly. The shock, the pain, the heart ache was unbelievable and unbearable. And later my father, sister and mother have all gone. And I think those losses have physical, neurologically changed me. So having a current LE experience reminds me of the grief because the feelings from grief and feelings in a LE experience are both intense, scary and outside the normal range of emotions one is typically used to.
I hope you have great memories of your father because that is what will stay with you over the years. And I still have a relationship with all of these people. I mean the love is all still there. And I hope the love will never go away.
Dr L, I am so sorry for your loss. I have only just today found your amazing website and amazing articles as I have been searching Google to find the answer to my pain and heartache at the recent death of my LO#1, who came strongly into my life when I was just 16 years old. It’s been weeks since he died and my heart has ached every day since; reading three articles of yours is the first my brain has allowed my heart relief. Thank you so much. I hope you are coping well with your loss.
Dr, L
My belated condolences to the loss of your father, and deep sympathy for your family’s grief. I hope you’re feeling better now.
Just read your article, and I’m trying to understand how the grief of losing my father 5.5 years ago had immediately led me, head over heel, into limerence, while two experiences are seemingly so different.
There were 9 month of amicable colleagueship with married LO after the glimmer, with just a bit of my curiosity about who he was and minimum professional interactions. When Father suddenly passed away, LO “stepped in” to give his condolences, relate to his experience of losing his father unexpectedly, and advise (an indirect “boss”) my new project of the time.
Now looking back, this normal, cordial “care” probably served as “the dopamine fix” in my already glimmer limerent brain. I felt much less sad and depressed and could focus better, during our interactions in person and in emails. At one point, I was saying to myself that I should have been felt sadder, not able to laugh at LO’s small jokes (supposed to cheer me up). After 5 months, my craving for his presence and messages, all work related, fully kicked in.
Just came across this website as I had been thinking about exactly this topic. What an amazing website, thank you Dr L and sorry about your loss.
I’ve not had many limeric episodes, but the last of them, relapse excluded, LE 3 i believe is the correct term, the most atypical for me, was seemingly, completely triggered by my father’s death. I think it even served as a repalcement or coping mechanism and allowed me to repress any feelings about my father, and I haven’t been able to access any feelings about him since, and often struggle to even remember him, even though it is only 7 years ago.
Sorry, I feel a bit selfish here for tagging my own story on to the end of what is clearly a tragic loss for you, but hopefully by the end the slightly different angle becomes clear and it’s not just me unloading my own experiences in the least appropriate thread of all…
We had a complicated relationship, he was a lovely man to people outside the immediate family, loving but emotionally distant and an alcoholic at home. Habitual evening drinking when I was young, but increasingly severe as I i began to flee the nest, to the point where he was a full blown rehab cycling, whiskey after breakfast drinker and asleep by midday at the end. He managed to stay sober for 2 years before he died and we repaired our relationship a bit, but it remained emotionally closed somehow. I held his hand as he slipped out, but I couldn’t talk about it with anyone and only grieved briefly, and rebuffed my families attempts to talk about it with me.
Somehow I’d managed to land my dream job in the interim and dived into that hardcore, with an SO at home and first child. The LE came really strongly out of the blue with a colleague. She was slightly younger, single, and we had very similar family backgrounds – our parents had very similar ‘cultural’ backgrounds, jobs, we’d grown up in similar towns near each other, so on paper at least there was a very clear link to my own family history.
The whole thing honestly started out of nothing, different departments in a small company, we worked on a project together, were hanging out a bit privately without any particualr intentions on my part, and then – bam – hit me like a bomb. I recognised the spiral from LE 1 and 2 even if I didn’t have the vocab i’ve devoured here in the last couple of days, but this remains the only time I’ve had an LE without a romantic liaison beforehand.
It was incredibly intense, really caused me to behave terribly towards my SO (now thankfully repaired), but I was at least aware enough to never attempt in any way to initiate or disclose anything, i kept my distance, no false signals, and then suddenly 3-4 months later it just faded out and we became friends/colleagues again with a bit less hanging out and it simply felt like beforehand very quickly. After a while she left the company and neither of us tried to keep in touch.
The odd thing, and why I wrote this here, is it completely sidelined any feelings around my father. I have never been able to access any feelings about him since then, talk about this or even really grieve for him since. I’ve been contemplating therapy to resolve this, but now I’m wondering if somehow I dealt with it already via an LE, or just triggered by his death. I’m wondering if I could actually need to find a therapist who understands limerence for it to even be useful.
Anyhow, sorry for your loss DrL, I love the website, you are doing so much good in the world. It’s a real inspiration to live purposefully. In two days I’ve probably got further in working out what is up with me than the last 20 years.
Heebiejebbies
” loving but emotionally distant and an alcoholic at home”
” whiskey after breakfast drinker and asleep by midday at the end”
“and we repaired our relationship a bit”
This is very familiar. But unlike your experience I am the alcoholic father that is at times emotionally unavailable. And many weekends I am drinking at breakfast and asleep by midday. I began drinking at around 17-18 to escape my own emotionally unavailable father who chose to spend more of his off-work time with church and my folks religion than me. The only way I could make him proud was my dedication and advancement within said religion.
Our boys I think forgive me more for my alcoholic addiction than they do my limerent addiction. I know for certain our youngest harbors a lot of resentment towards me for what I did to his mother. Our oldest is a bit more understanding but also 3 years old than his brother.
“The LE came really strongly out of the blue with a colleague. She was slightly younger, single”
“and then – bam – hit me like a bomb”
“really caused me to behave terribly towards my SO (now thankfully repaired)”
“never attempt in any way to initiate or disclose”
I had a similar situation of being paired with her that came from higher up than my pay grade. I had no choice in the matter. And like you she was just a friendly young lady to work with. We worked well in getting the project done faster and with higher efficiency than corporate had expected. And than one day, a simple smile and a “thank you Adam” sent me over the edge.
We are still reconciling even after two years of her absence. She too left the job about a year after we worked together. I never told her how I felt in any way, keeping it professional at all times. But the whole office knew I had a “crush” on her. When finding Dr. L’s blog here I did disclose to my wife about limerence. But in the background already there was whispers that I was having an affair with her, so I felt it best to tell my wife what I discovered.
“After a while she left the company and neither of us tried to keep in touch.”
Good man. I too have managed two years of no contact. That is really commendable. I will say that, what I thought would not be a problem after she left, that really was; social media. It’s so easy to justify a look here or there and then before you know it, it is out of hand. Beware, it is the devil.
Glad to have you here. Hopefully others will chime in with something that will really help besides me just being able to relate to your limerence.
@Heebiejebbies,
Sounds to me like she got out at a good time. The resentments for your Father coupled with whatever was not right between you and your SO was probably the major trigger that set off the LE. The younger, single types seem to be the go-to for some of us older guys on the forum here, so it’s not uncommon. My LO is single, attractive as hell, almost half my age and pretty much unavailable. A prime LO candidate in every way.
I lost my Mother in 2018 to Crohns disease and my Father is currently battling Parkinsons. I can sadly admit that in the depression of what should make me more emotional about that, has not. Nothing makes me as sad as never attaining LO. At times, bitter. I believe the LE has made me numb to feelings of loss and of not being able to do normal things with my Father now as he goes into his sunset. Not to mention the struggles I currently have to deal with in being his only child. It’s like nothing still makes me as sad as not having LO and why should she even matter anymore? She was just a Coworker but seemed like a Goddess. Her eye contact with me drove me out of my mind. Everything she did was Holy. I felt like it was always meant to be. Yet is was only breadcrumbs she gave and really no interest on her part at all, but I’ve never wanted to fully believe that. I still feel like something should eventually happen, yet probably never will. This is the sick reality of a limerent mind.
For myself, I think a lot of my LE centered around loss of marriage, my Mothers death, loneliness and lack of being able to bond with my Daughter after my divorce. My LE eventually went into limbo and has never recovered. I never actually knew my LO either and that made me incredibly anxious all the time. We still work for the same company, just on totally different shifts and in different buildings now. Pretty much it’s all NC, which helps my emotional state. It was in bad shape for a long time. At times, borderline suicidal.
Limerence is no joke. While your situation does not seem as dire in the moment, you might want to talk to someone who can help you in dealing with the lack of grief you are presently experiencing. I’ve not had the greatest luck in finding such a Therapist that knows something about limerence, but there are some that do I guess. I currently talk to a Priest about once a month. It’s better than nothing. However I do still consider myself a horrible Catholic and a terrible Christian.
Dr L, I’m very sorry for your loss and thank you for this site which is a great resource in the management of Limerence, healing broken hearts and getting lives back on track from the fallout of Limerent experiences.
MJ,
I just wanted to say a few words and also as I’ve followed your posts on this site. From what you’ve said in your posts, you’ve always acted honorably in your dealings with LO in what are difficult and painful situations. As you adore a person but there is no way to convey the feelings and it doesn’t seem as if those feelings are reciprocated to the same degree or even at all.
“She was just a Coworker but seemed like a Goddess. Her eye contact with me drove me out of my mind. Everything she did was Holy. I felt like it was always meant to be. Yet is was only breadcrumbs she gave and really no interest on her part at all, but I’ve never wanted to fully believe that. I still feel like something should eventually happen, yet probably never will. This is the sick reality of a limerent mind.”
Yes, she seemed like a Goddess icon and every action was infused with grace and beauty. But remember, she’s only a human being, like the rest of us. Take her down from that pedestal you’ve put her on.
The real danger of limerence is we project our desire and adoration onto an LO and never get to see their all too human flaws, which are there, but we’re blind to them.
It’s a cruel irony that we have all these pent-up feelings for an LO but sometimes never get close enough to know the person. In cases like ours, it has to be “what doesn’t kill us makes us stronger”.
Sometimes just knowing there are others who’ve been through what I’m going through and have come through it is a big consolation. There is a lot of compassion and wisdom on LwL which has helped me since I had a limerent flare up earlier in the year.
I’m a lapsed Catholic and have almost lost my Christian faith. Though I don’t beat myself up about it and certainly don’t see myself as a bad person. I see myself as a spiritual person but have let go of the certainty of God. Though everyone has their own path to walk.
I felt bitter and disappointment that nothing happened with LO and that she didn’t want me. Thrown in was ambiguous behavior on her part, but really just leading me on in a kind of halfhearted way.
I hope you can repair your relationship with your daughter MJ. In my opinion that should be a top priority and a way out of hopelessness and depression.
I mean how much control do we have to a person (LO) falling for us or reciprocating out intense feelings we have for them? Hardly any it seems to me. It’s almost like some kind of cosmic joke, though a very painful one admittedly.
I hope things go well for you.
MJ,
am sorry to hear about your situation. It is incredible how overwhelming the feelings can be, and detached from reality given much worse goings on in your life. My strong suspicion is that for me LE has always been more of a displacement in repsonse to some other trauma. By and large I’ve not experienced it during stable periods although (it isn’t a big sample), more around big life transitions or bigger problems. No idea if that is transferrable to others situations.
On the suicidal thoughts you should definitely get help if they are still recurring, I had the same during LE2 but I think it was more related to depression, stress and loneliness and my dads alcoholism becoming more obvious, and the LE was like an accelerant. Definitely at the height it was more than daily and I wasn’t far off.
The only crumbs I can offer you is that I haven’t had a suicidial thought in well over 10 years, and aside from LE3 and brief recent relapse on LE2. It can get a lot better. I can’t offer a solution but I can only say keep on with your daughter, even if the bonding doesnt feel like it is working, I would hope alone the fact that you show attention and try means a lot to her. Maybe I’m off the mark there but maybe it helps.
@Heebiejeebies ,
Thanks for your reply. The suicidal thoughts were never so intense that I came close. It was just ideation because in a moment, I could understand why doing such a thing would release me from what felt like drowning. Like there were times I could physically feel an anxious pain in my heart over some disappointment over LO. It was about that time I knew I probably should talk to somebody. Hence, meeting up with the Priest. I also considered my Son and Daughter who didn’t need to go the rest of their lives without a Father.
My Daughter and I are still not on the best of terms, but we are not enemies either. She’s just in her own little world, getting ready to go off to College in the fall and I’m trying to be happy for her and somewhat involved. It’s baby steps for now, but we’ll see what happens. I hope you are correct about the attention to her. Sometimes it feels like even that has no purpose but moody teenage girls are just hardwired like that, so they say..
“A horrible Catholic and a terrible Christian”??!! You seem to be the very essence of what Christianity is supposed to be, aside from love for others: repentance and turning away from your old sins.
Same goes for Adam, BTW.
Thanks for that support SL. The Good Lord will not give us any more than we can handle.
But man this cross sure does get heavy at times..
thanks Adam, yes just being able to share this has been an incredible release. I’ve never talked about it to anyone (seems I am a mild to middling DA based on some tests I did yesterday, which came as a surprise because i’d always interpreted Limerence as being about attachment anxiety). And, yes, Social Media is the devil when you are weaning off but am not sure it means much after a while. But IMO if you are only 2 years out examine your own intentions very carefully. If you actively want to reconcile with your LO (or were you referring to your SO?) you could very well be lying to yourself about why.
My dad was an actively lapsed catholic, I think his struggles with alcohol were strongly tied to his struggle with that and general detachment from parents, his dad was a 6 year POW and very damaged. He eventually became sober when he returned to the church. Luckily he completely shielded me from any religion, so I’m a very contented atheist so no added complications to the trouble of Limerence.
@Grego,
You are very wise and kind. Thank you for your words. I appreciate your support and following my rants that probably are repetitive in nature at times.
I might have over-embellished my emotions in that post to a degree. Sometimes I just get so into my thoughts of the past and all the dopamine for LO comes rushing back. She’s like comfort food, that still tastes so good everytime I have her in thought. (Like our Friend Gallant, who even in his sadness and grief over his LO, finds a strange comfort in that sadness.) I know it’s not healthy. Just more a guilty pleasure I suppose.. Yet I can say my Lady Friend has helped tremendously in making those dopamine-infused moments less frequent lately. My goal is not to transfer any limerence onto her now. As there have been, what I feel are semi-glimmer moments. She is quite the adorable little thing and checks off so many boxes on my list. Is she perfect? Far from I say, but thats what makes her so much a better choice for me and why I thank my God I’m not losing my mind over her. True, I do like her and her company but limerence is not healthy and I know that projecting any of that on to her would be unfair and probably creepy/cringey, to say the least. I want to keep it normal without going over the edge. So far, so good on that..
I think it is also some of the stress of my Father’s issues that get the best of me sometimes and going around with his needs can be a challenge. I find myself overwhelmed because I know if I still had my Wife, she would be more than happy to help out now and then. In turn then, my Daughter might still be around more often than not as well. So then I just get bitter I do it all solo. (Regretting my sexual addictions got the best of me.) I shouldn’t complain though. I’m trying not to. He’s my Father. He’ll be dead eventually and hopefully I won’t hate myself all the more once that happens.
It’s my bad choices I’m regretting mainly and I have a habit of beating myself up over things that happened ages ago. You’d think I’d even be the type to be mad LO probably enjoyed the ego stroke but I never want to give her that. I’ve never felt that way about her. Can’t hate on something I could easily adore..
If anything, I just picture a time I can eventually ask her how it’s going over there in her corner of the Plant, which might lead to more conversation. Even if it is only work related. Hopefully she’ll respond without feeling forced to do so. Perhaps then, she’ll see I was a normal guy all along. Thereby perhaps her changing her perspective of me.
Hey, it could happen, couldn’t it?
We shall see..