From time to time I’m contacted by researchers who are taking an interest in limerence and embarking on new research to investigate the phenomenon.
This is a welcome development, as it fills gaps in our understanding, and also starts to make the concepts of limerence and person addiction more mainstream.
The latest project is from a research group at the University of Missouri, St. Louis, headed up by Prof Sandra Langeslag.
The purpose of the study is to understand how people define and experience limerence. It also tests whether and how limerence can be increased and decreased.
Here’s the link to the survey form:
https://umsl.az1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_esvCwsEaurVF9Zk
According to the instructions it takes about 30 min to complete, so if anyone has the time and inclination to help, I’d encourage you to take part.
Hi Dr. L , very interesting , this is going to be a marathon of research from now on.
I’d have gladly participated in the program but there’s a caveat to it. In case a of an audit or program evaluation by an oversight agency, that would lead to disclosure of your data as well as any other information collected by the researcher. If it wasn’t because of my SO I wouldn’t mind participating. Siblings or other people I’m not that concerned . I never want to hurt my SO as long as he’s alive.
Single people are in a better position to participate.
Other than that I’m very glad for you and your efforts to get the word out. Very grateful to you.
To all limerents and to you: have a wonderful and relaxing weekend.
It was enjoyable to fill out the survey, and also somewhat enlightening.
Interestingly, I found my limerence diminishing, the further I progressed.
Even the questions designed to consider my LO positively.
I wonder why that is?
The questions made me realise how incompatible my LO, a Tinderella who flirts with all and sundry, is with me.
There were also questions that were perhaps steered towards purposeful living, during which my LO did not enter my head.
[Note: I am currently enjoying NC, 2+1/2 months so far, and endeavouring to live purposefully, but would be kidding myself to say it’s with true purpose.
Part of me still hopes that my unwitting LO will break NC, and resume contact.
It’s unlikely, but possible, so I am still in thrall of my limerence.]
“My LO, a Tinderella”
I love that name reference @ghostzoned. It kinda fits my LO too.
She’s a master at “glow-up” selfies..
😂😂
Yeah, she pushes the whole manic pixie dream girl vibe, both online and irl.
I put it down to Tinder culture, which seems to be her main hobby.
I don’t think she’s a narcissist, even though she does exhibit narcissistic traits.
But she’s had years of online dating experience, enough to form learned habits of communication.
The growth of online dating popularity (& hookup culture) is probably at least partly responsible for certain types of limerence.
The advice given to snare a hookup is literally an instruction manual on how to be an LO.
Whenever I hear the Tinder swipers at work compare match ups, it’s often accompanied by their mantra: “Treat em mean, keep em keen” – ie, run hot /cold, with mixed messages, along with high volume flirting.
An interesting thought is that us limerents also want this too.
When you think about it, our dream is for mutual limerence, ie that we are an LO for the object of our desire (however messed up that would be in actuality).
The problem is that hookups, multiple and disposable relationships, are the opposite of what limerents are seeking.
We haven’t had a MPDG LO in awhile.
If you go back around the 2018-2019, maybe late 2017, and look for Fred, he had a lot to say about them.
Thank you, Limerent Emeritus, yes MPDG seems such a fantasy trope, but they do exist.
My MPDG is like a living trope, she even has manic pixie tattoos!
She definitely enjoys flirting with the strong shy type (both guys and girls).
Like she’s trawling for limerents.
The contrast was overwhelming, at least for me.
I found some of Fred’s story here:
https://livingwithlimerence.com/limerence-for-a-co-worker/
What a wild ride!
I dearly hope that Fred escaped with his marriage and career intact, knowing that so many others here have not been so fortunate.
My own situation is nowhere as intense, my barriers were up as soon as I recognised something was off
[no shit:
a married man like myself, on the receiving end of gently persistent feminine attention from a very pretty, energetic and confident young lady half my age]
It wasn’t the unusual degree of friendliness that perplexed me, so much as the furtive and hot /cold nature of it:
She would always initiate contact when we were alone, but in a group setting, it was like she didn’t know me.
Anyhow, I am grateful for my MPDG flitting into my life, as she has booted me out of my rut.
My SO has even commented how much happier and healthier I seem lately!
And I’m grateful that we parted on a high note, our last moments a hug and a laugh.
As much as part of me longs to meet up with her again, a larger part of me dreads it.
Even a fleeting encounter would spoil that moment, now that I suspect I’m out of sight and out of mind, as far as she’s concerned.
And of course if the opposite is true, that would put me on the merry go round all over again ~
Fred reappeared a few months back.
As I remember his post, things were better but not as good as they could be. Nothing catastrophic in his post.
Ghostzoned,
“I dearly hope that Fred escaped with his marriage and career intact, knowing that so many others here have not been so fortunate.”
Honestly, limerence usually doesn’t result in such tragedy as a marriage ending and/or a career being affected. (Usually, though not always.) It’s mostly in the limerent’s head.
Marcia,
Going back through the blogs, limerence was directly involved in at least 3 marriages ending. at least one person being fired, and another claimed to have been disbarred for having an LE with a client. I don’t remember if it was Fred or someone else who gave his LO an equity position in his company.
Limerence wasn’t likely the only reason but it was a contributor and when it goes south, it can do so in grand fashion. There can be so many factors in play in any given LE and the limerent often only controls one of them.
Some people escape limerence cleanly but some don’t. I made a lot of mistakes but I didn’t have to pay for them.
LE,
“Some people escape limerence cleanly but some don’t.”
I say most escape cleanly or pretty cleanly. To worry about a possible catastrophic ending is over the top.
@Marcia,
But if the limerent is already married/in relationship, isn’t it often their awareness of the possible bad outcome for existing relationships and work, that causes them to not take action (or take less action) to pursue the LO? If you’d say the limerent’s lack of action is the reason nothing much happens, I’d say the limerent being alive to the possibility of undesirable outcomes, and wanting to avoid them, is a big reason for their inaction.
Not so for single limerents, but they don’t have the possibility of causing themselves a bad relationship outcome. And their LO has that side (for themselves) firmly in their own control, whatever the limerent does or doesn’t do.
Marcia,
There are currently two active posters who have SOs who are tolerant of their limerence.
If those SOs weren’t tolerant, they’d be on the list of bad outcomes.
Unintended consequences are often unforeseen consequences but often they’re not. Pregnancy and STDs are unintended consequences of unprotected sex but unless you slept through your middle school health class, they’re rarely unforeseen consequences.
Limerence can carry a lot of risks and the limerent may or may not be able to mitigate the consequences.
Everybody’s LE is different.
LE,
“If you’d say the limerent’s lack of action is the reason nothing much happens, I’d say the limerent being alive to the possibility of undesirable outcomes, and wanting to avoid them, is a big reason for their inaction.”
I agree. Also the LO’s level of interest, which is sometimes hard to read. Or is readable and the limerent, deep down, knows the LO isn’t interested.
Also, most people are creatures of comfort. It’s just human nature. Who is going to blow up their lives for an LO who may or may not (and probably won’t) show up? Or might not show up in the same way as the SO? (Maybe the LO is down for something casual but not desirous of a relationship.) It’s too big of a risk.
Therefore, the outcomes of most LEs are not catastrophic.
“And their LO has that side (for themselves) firmly in their own control, whatever the limerent does or doesn’t do.”
Not sure what you mean here.
As one of two said active users there was a time that my wife, tired of my obsession, took her wedding ring off. She may not have struck at me out right but that action was her “shaking her rattle” to send the message she’s about to reach her limit.
She’s still here. She may stay here till the end. But I can promise she is going to be far less forgiving of any possible repeat of this mess. And who could blame her? It’s not like she couldn’t make my life miserable inside the marriage, and bad as leaving me would. A divorce isn’t always the most catastrophic thing that limerence can cause. It’s just seen as the end game.
She finally put it back on months after not wearing it. In that time I wore it around the necklace that my first wedding band hangs on. I always wear ever since I got my second wedding band.
Does she trust me with my other female co-workers or future female co-workers? Will she always wonder if her husband is going to come obessing about the “new girl”? I’d better not. I doubt there is a second chance with this.
“I’d say the limerent being alive to the possibility of undesirable outcomes, and wanting to avoid them, is a big reason for their inaction.”
This was my biggest fear. I knew LO probably figured it out at some point. Her body language became somewhat snobby in my presence as if to say “Don’t even think of approaching me Dude!”
Clearly she was in control and unavailable.
Thank you for your inputs, everyone.
I came pretty close to blowing everything up in the end.
Of course I knew that getting involved would be trouble from the start, so despite my limerent feelings, I was quite prickly to this eager young woman for months.
Even so, I was definitely energised in her presence, and maybe she detected that. I know that I was poor at concealing my behaviour.
Fortunately, my father died unexpectedly around the same time as my LE, and my aberrant antics were possibly passed off as a grief reaction, especially by my SO.
It was only in my LO’s final couple of days with us that I opened up a bit.
And at her farewell night out, I threw all caution to the winds.
We dined and drank and danced almost as if we were dating, and I spent more time at MPDG’s side than all the others combined.
She took me to the dance floor and we stayed till almost everyone else filtered out and she asked me to take her home.
The main reason nothing further happened was due to a successful c0ckblocking operation by the couple of remaining workmates.
In context, in our work environment we can be close and often engage in horseplay, but it’s all harmless innuendo.
The last office party when I was pursued by a drunken colleague, I was ribbed by it for days after.
But after this party, not a word, even though I longed to hear her name.
Ouch.
Ghostzoned,
I was talking about going home after that party, for example, and telling your wife you wanted out of the marriage.
I can’t see a lot of limerent’s taking that risk with their lives. Flirting and dancing isn’t really taking a risk. That’s having cake — keeping the SO while enjoying the LO. 🙂
You’re right, Marcia.
I wouldn’t do anything that threatened our marriage.
Well, not a PA.
Funny thing is, even though MPDG is, like, an 11/10 in terms of what I find attractive in a woman, I don’t have sexual fantasies about her.
But I think about an EA with her all the time.. all sorts of scenarios.
I often wonder how well she and my SO might get along..
Luckily my SO trusts me so much, that I have three of Bain’s books right next to me on my bedside dresser, Dr L’s book in my work bag, and Tennov’s in a prominent position on the bedroom bookcase, for the past few months..
And she hasn’t questioned my latest choice of research.
Ghostzoned,
“But I think about an EA with her all the time.. all sorts of scenarios.”
That’s what most of the married men on here want.
Is your LO single? I can’t imagine any single woman wanting an EA with a married man. There’s nothing in it for her.
I can’t speak for married women.
“I often wonder how well she and my SO might get along..”
Another thing a single woman doesn’t want to do with a married guy she’s into … hang out with him and his wife.
Hard pass on that one, sorry. 🙂
Found a really relevant quote by Mark, in 2018:
https://livingwithlimerence.com/displacement-activities/#comment-1966
Ghostzoned,
From how you’ve described your situation … you had a flirtatious evening that hasn’t gone further. It’s what I was describing in terms of worst case scenarios usually not being an issue for limerents.
In a situation where something actually did happen and the interest was reciprocated … A few years ago, a married, male friend of mine was actually having a PA. His affair partner was also married. They discussed leaving their spouses for each other, but he hesitated. He’d lose half his money, his kids would be angry at him, and what if the affair partner didn’t end up leaving her husband? What would he be left with? (These were the concerns he voiced.) A good number of people won’t take the risk.
” … you had a flirtatious evening that hasn’t gone further.”
That’s true.
My situation is very tame compared to so many other stories here.
And yes, I do know of friends, colleagues and and family who’ve had PAs, which didn’t destroy their marriages, and a few that did (in those cases it was sustained PAs, not a one off fling).
But it’s extremely out of character for me.
Perhaps that’s why my wife trusts me so, she knows that nothing short of a unicorn such as a MPDG would excite me (she herself is a Pixie Dream Girl, without the manic).
I do feel reassured by your words, implying that this was just a bit of harmless fun, like most flirting, unlikely to end in anything serious.
I have to admit, it was the most fun I’ve had in quite a while ~
Ghostzoned,
“My situation is very tame compared to so many other stories here.”
Actually it’s very similar to a lot of stories on here. A little blip of something … and then nothing. Or a little blip of something on a continual basis but it never goes further. Or a lot of hot and cold blips.
“And yes, I do know of friends, colleagues and and family who’ve had PAs, which didn’t destroy their marriages, and a few that did (in those cases it was sustained PAs, not a one off fling).”
And most people don’t want to take the risk and do the work to get out of what they’re in. It’s too much of a pain in the butt. And there’s no guarantee that what you find when you get out will be better.
“I do feel reassured by your words, implying that this was just a bit of harmless fun, like most flirting, unlikely to end in anything serious.”
I mean …. you haven’t spoken to her since, right? It sounds like the opportunity was there, but you didn’t take it. She’ll move on to someone who wil. Wouldn’t you?
“I have to admit, it was the most fun I’ve had in quite a while ”
And therein lies the problem. You’re comparing something that was, essentially, next to nothing … to your real life.
That is the limerent dilemma.
“And therein lies the problem. You’re comparing something that was, essentially, next to nothing … to your real life.
That is the limerent dilemma.”
I think Marcia is my favourite poster. Alwats hits the nail on the head.
Maria,
“I think Marcia is my favourite poster. Always hits the nail on the head.”
What a nice thing to say.
Where do I send your check? 🙂
I can’t speak for every woman. But I know mine. And drinking and dancing with another woman is far from “next to nothing”. And probably feel the same about her in the same setting.
But each spouse has their own tolerance level.
“Where do I send your check? 🙂”
You can send me a check @Marcia.
You’re my favorite poster too.. 🤑😂
MJ,
“You’re my favorite poster too.. 🤑😂”
I have no problem with a man lying to me. 🙂
Adam,
“And drinking and dancing with another woman is far from “next to nothing”.”
You’re not allowed to dance with another woman?
I guess it depends on what kind of dancing.
“I have no problem with a man lying to me. 🙂”
No lies here. You make me laugh and I like a Woman with humor. Not only that, you were offering to send Maria a check. I want my piece of the pie too. 🤣
MJ,
” I want my piece of the pie too. 🤣”
You have to contribute something first. 🙂
[Scene: DrL and Teika at the podium at the 2024 LwL Awards Ceremony (aka: The Limmys)]
DrL: And, now the award for the 2024 LwL Poster of the Year. [Reads list of nominees] Envelope, please.
[Camera pans to nominees as the envelope delivered by Jaideux]
Teika: And this year’s LwL Poster of the Year is…Marcia!
[Camera pans to Marcia amid wild applause. Marcia heads to the stage where she’s handed her Limmy, a small statuette resembling Rodin’s “The Thinker” sitting on top of the word “Huh?” DrL and Teika step back as Marcia steps to the podium. The camera zooms in as Marcia says…]
LE,
“The camera zooms in as Marcia says…]”
“Thank you, everyone. I’d like to thank … myself.” 🙂
Marcia and LE,
Do we finally get our Slogan- TShirts and Adam breakdancing in parachute pants then?
Mila,
“Do we finally get our Slogan- TShirts and Adam breakdancing in parachute pants then?”
I’ll do some research on a T-shirt on Amazon we can all buy. The slogans are up to the individual limerent.
As per the breakdancing, I’ve asked for several updates from Adam and … and to use the language of the blog … he’s been dodgy. 🙂
So … I say we just meet up in Vegas. Is the Magic Mike show still there? 🙂
In addition to the Awards show, I’m also working on “Dancing With The Limerents” and the “Miss Limerent Beauty Pageant.”
Maybe Adam can do his break dancing on DWTL. I’m claiming MC for both shows. Snow can read poetry for the talent portion of the beauty pageant. Miss Congeniality goes to the person offering the best bribe.
Marcia, talk to me nicely and you can be the co-host of DWTL, unless you want to be a contestant. I think some variant of the mirror ball trophy is still appropriate since limerence has so many fashions.
I think it’s time for me to negotiate another raise with DrL. Creative minds like mine don’t come cheap…
LE,
“Marcia, talk to me nicely and you can be the co-host of DWTL, unless you want to be a contestant.”
I want to be a judge. 🙂
” I think some variant of the mirror ball trophy is still appropriate since limerence has so many fashions.”
There’s definitely going to be disco in the dance contest. YMCA! … 🙂
“I think it’s time for me to negotiate another raise with DrL. Creative minds like mine don’t come cheap…”
I agree. You need a raise and a matching contribution to a 401k. 🙂
@LE,
I’ll “sing” a verse that would drive some of us limerents in tears, while spinning under YMCA!
“The camera zooms in as Marcia says…]”
“Thank you, everyone. I’d like to thank … myself and especially all the People in the Senior Living Centers, who still believe in me”
Applause 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
“Do we finally get our Slogan- TShirts?”
@Mila,
That’s fantastic!! I want my TShirt to say on the front, “Gentlemen prefer Blondes” and on the back “Under 30”
@Marcia, LE,
I’m a size 3x. I’ll take 2 please..
“There’s definitely going to be disco in the dance contest. YMCA! … 🙂”
Ya’ll be playin.. 🤣🤣
Wait till you see my dance number. I’m gonna move to C&C Music Factorys, “Gonna make you sweat”
Just like the video..
It’s gonna get a standing ovation..
👏🏻👏🏻 😂😂
MJ,
‘“Thank you, everyone. I’d like to thank … myself and especially all the People in the Senior Living Centers, who still believe in me””
Hey, I’m not middle-aged and delusional like … um … some others on here. I know who my fans are. 🙂
“I’m a size 3x. I’ll take 2 please..”
Umm … you order your own damn shirt. I’m just giving you a link. 🙂
“Wait till you see my dance number. I’m gonna move to C&C Music Factorys, “Gonna make you sweat””
If you look like the guy in the video, you can get any blonde you want. 🙂
“Middle-aged and delusional”
@Marcia,
Lmfao. 🤣🤣
Say what you think, but you’re still #1 with me..
I do look like the guy in the video. Only better now. Just add a little grey hair and a “few”pounds.. 😂😂
MJ,
Oh. I came up with the saying for my shirt.
On the front: “I like a man with a large”
On the back: “Bank account”
🙂
All ages welcome, baby. I’m an equal opportunity employer. 🙂
I‘m on business travel again and very tired, so I don’t understand all you wrote, but it sounds like a hell of a party💪🏻
But I want Adam dancing in parachute pants. No Stetson. Can we also have a specially invented cocktail named „Glimmer“
and a drunken catfight or someone punching someone else so it’s all over the media? Peace made afterwards of course.
And a Limousine please. Champagne , and some dark chocolate for Marcia and me.
I took the survey.
I didn’t take anywhere near half an hour.
I think that Prof Langeslag made a potentially serious omission. She asked about OCD but she didn’t ask about co-dependence. There’s literature out there that discusses the overlap between limerence and co-dependence and what distinguishes them.
Considering how many therapists know about co-dependence and how few therapists know about limerence, I would have included it.
There were so many more strings that Prog Langeslag could have tugged on.
After reading Ghostsoned’s comments, I wonder if my responses to the questions didn’t lead to additional questions.
I took the survey too. It took about 10 minutes for me. Happy to help in any way!
I faltered already on „What is your definition of limerence.“
Sorry. Maybe I‘ll try another time🙈
I completed it and didnt agonise too much (I feel that you are probably supposed to complete these things without over analysing too much). But I felt manipulated at the end.
Also, I could not think of mean or gross things as my LO is a bit of a teddy bear. If an annoying teddy bear. …
I abandoned it the half way through, because many questions just did not apply in my case — I was/am primarily in limerence with my own imagination/the desire… LO was just a catalyst, an untouchable “phantom”. 😊
Also felt the survey is “manipulating” in some senses.
Oh I agree, Snow. It was interesting to ponder those questions though.
As usual, my responses now that limerence has calmed right down are very different to what they would have been had I responded thisntime last year.
@Adam, that sounds way too painful! Best stay away from the survey my friend.
@Bewitched,
It’s interesting to ponder some questions, but there no single, clear answers to them. Eg. I like many songs, books, films, can’t tell which is most preferred one… (during last couple of years, I was particularly drawn to this version of the song: https://youtu.be/wwK5q1km-rQ?si=FxtBiRCtrH30PYOK — the ghost-girl (?) is the creativity phantom/Muse of the “limerent” guy.)
Then after “sliding in” my unassured answers, the survey asks, “How do you feel right now…” about this or that (like in a therapist room) as if our mind/limerence condition would be changed/transformed just by answering a few questions (maybe for a few moments) . If that’s the case, we would be all cured by now after staying in LwL for so long….
Once I perceived a tiny bit of condescending tone, I abandoned the survey without knowing/caring about the later questions. I did not feel the same towards some others’ and DrL’s surveys.
Like you, I would have responded differently even before I visited COO in June… then, one of my underline causes was unexpectedly, largely removed, by the shameless disclosure, my “unmasking” trip, my phantom’s accompany, and the killer dream/my benevolent, powerful Unconscious…. I was no longer burdened by the secrecy and felt so liberated… ☺️
My OCD is still here, but I don’t actively fight with it, but just acknowledge and be gentle with it.
What nice thing does (did) this person do for you?
Me: Mothers me
How much limerence do you feel?
______________________________
How (un) pleasant do you feel?
_______________________________
Ugh
When I moved out of my parents house I lived in an apartment complex right behind UMSL on Ferguson. It’s where Momma lived with me for over a year till we moved back to her home state.
Oh and as of that survey … She Drives Me Crazy is my favorite song.
LOL Adam
My answer was “Nothing”
How much limerence do you feel?
.
How (un) pleasant do you feel?
.
Limerence 110%. Pleasant 110%
Her: Adam whats wrong?
Me: They put mayo on my burger.
Her: Give it me. *Scrapes off mayo, cleans vegetables, takes mustard out of fridges and puts on my burger.* Better?
Me: Yes mother.
Her: *smiles eyes sparkling*
I’m too sober for this memory. Time for a beer.
Time for a Guinness..
@Adam. 🍺😋🤣
Well it was Sunday night before Labor Day so I had to settle with an 18 pack of Coors Original from 7-11. Took about 8 and watched Robin Hood (the 70’s classic Disney animated movie) on Disney streaming before I feel asleep at about 2am this morning.
8 Coors 😳
I took the survey. I was surprised it didn’t ask for LOs age. Thinking they might want to see an average of men in mid-life limerence, pining for younger LOs. Perhaps it doesn’t matter.
It didn’t cause me any great distress. Having a Lady Friend has really decreased my limerent desires as of late, so my perecentage scoring there was lower than it would have been, say a year ago. However, I do still find myself wanting to run into LO at work somehow or just see her around anywhere on the complex.
The part of the survey that asked what does LO do thats funny, I couldn’t help but think of her speaking and cursing in
spanish. (She’s bilingual) Which I remembered her from the time she was on the floor, calling out one of her Managers. It was funny because he couldn’t understand her and I couldn’t help but find it sexy as hell. Thinking of that, kind of made me miss her again.
I kind of liked the survey.
TBH it felt like more of a distraction than a survey LOL (pun intended)
As I was answering the questions I came to realize just how much I loath my LO!
I think for me now it’s to get rid of the yuck and loath associated with him.
My goodness things are shifting!
It bothers me because I am not the type of person that tends to focus on dislike to anyone.
Time to go and do some more “reframing” in my mind.
It’s a long weekend here in Canada, so I have some time.
I felt the same like you, Anna.
Some questions reminded me and refreshed xLO’s unknown or dark sides, which color has faded a lot (otherwise they kept me angry at and regretful for my active LE brain ). The realistic xLO is in long distance, out of my reality (perhaps for eternity), why do I need to remember his flaws? I’ll try my might to let the past rest in the past, so I could have peace and joy here and now. (Btw, my imagined phantom was/is surely not the realistic xLO.)
I think this survey asks too many questions about LO, whom some of us, while still in limerence (beginning, middle, or even end), cannot even answer. Our perceptions of LO were/are highly distorted by our LE lens until after we really come out of LE. Again, to be truly free from LE, I think, we need to focus on getting rid of individual root(s) of our LE, so we become much less vulnerable/prone to future LE(s). Falling in love, giving/receiving, and mutually growing healthy love is what most of us really need and want.
Enjoy your long weekend, Anna.
Hi Snow!
Yes, I was a little reluctant to take the survey cause are we not trying to damp our Limerence down? I was afraid that it would conjure up the ole post LE feels.
But to my pleasant (or not so pleasant) surprise it didn’t hit me between the eyes like I thought it would!
I have more contempt for LO now, actually a lot of contempt.
Like, how dare you come into my life a raise havoc! Don’t you know I’m broken!?!?
I am so ready for the past to rest in the past I wish my sludgy brain would agree.
But having said that I do see some sunshine on the horizon.
Hi Anna,
“how dare you come into my life a raise havoc! Don’t you know I’m broken!?!?“
I sense/feel that you’re putting a bit more blames on LO’s behaviors, which would give more power to him in terms of managing your own (re)actions. Did you think/expect that a narc LO would care about your ‘brokenness” or other vulnerabilities? It’s unrealistic/dangerous to want/expect anyone else, let alone dodged LOs, to truly consider/care for our own ongoing issues, e.g. cptsd or neurodivergence… Do we want to handle over our own autonomy to anyone else, who can never fully understand what we painfully experienced or are going through??
LO’s (or anyone else’s) personality and behaviors are eternally OUTSIDE of our controls, all we could do is to control our external (re)actions (even if unable internally) to their external behaviors (don’t even waste a second to guess what might be going on in their head!)
Please be prepared, there are a lot of dodged LOs out there and some will intentionally come to “catch” you, or we will by chance come cross with them. If we’re strong and smart — much more aware of and less prone to LO/LE, then even if they TRY to get into our life to raise a havoc, they will FAIL, if we can see through their behaviors and know how to walk away.
Your brain is not “sludgy”, it shows a lot of valuable insights in your posts to others lately. I’m so glad to hear that you “see some sunshine on the horizon”!
Done. Sure I am not the only one who felt like a train wreck taking it but then again, I am an overthinker! Oh well, day by day I battle the end of a mutual limerent. Peace and Calm is slowly returning… I think. Time to listen to Post Malone – Circles. Peace to you all!
I don’t understand why taking a survey has made some of us feeling “like a train wreck”; then how could our answers be “accurate” out of such an agitation??
I dislike some of the questions —they’re breakers to our hard-gained peace.
Peace 🧘♂️ 📿
because I am still in the throes of coming out of limerence. finding reality over fantasy once again. plain and simple, my process. to each their own in healing.
I think you might misunderstood my previous post. I was complaining about the survey, not why you felt the way you did, which was also how I felt (“some of us” was including me). It annoyed me and broke my newly-gained peace (while trying to answer some questions). I felt consoled that I was not alone feeling this way.
I aborted the survey (not sure a half way through, or less or more), and dis not want to read the rest of it. I probably won’t open any future surveys related to limerence.
Rephrasing my statement here: I don’t understand why and how a survey has made some of us feeling “like a train wreck”. How could our answers be “accurate” out of such an agitation?
Some of its questions sounded to me like what would be asked in a therapy room. It is a survey, not a therapist.
@ Snowpheonix
Oh, I know I am putting blame on LO’s behavior’s!
I know now that I was caught up with a Narc! At the time, well he was just doing his narcing and I was lapping it up. Caught up in all of the lovebombing etc…
I’m angry now and although I’m directing it at him, it’s really just anger at myself.
You’re right, he didn’t care one iota about me, it was all fake.
I think I may be going through the stages of grief?
My therapist cautioned me that may happen.
If I may be so indulging to say I’m grieving myself.
All of the missed opportunities for a half decent relationship that I skipped out of because meh, the guy didn’t meet ALL of my standards?
Now I’m jumping through emotional hoops with Narcissists??
What the???
My good old attachment style coming into play of course!
Yeah, this is where I’m at this weekend lol dredging up old shoulda, coulda, woulda’s I’m a little frazzled, too much thinking.
I hear you, I can and will smell that type of person a mile away now. Lesson learned ( the hard way)
I’ll get back on track, but it seems this flip/flop of anger then bargaining with myself has reared it’s ugly head.
Have to strike a deal with it somehow.
Hi Anna,
I’m sorry that this weekend has been “dredging up shoulda, coulda woulda’s” for you. I have been in your shoe many times in the past few months since left the previous work. Anger, depression, grief, mania…. any moods in between you name it! I think it’s very NORMAL to go through such “flip/flop” as we recover from the biggest addiction— worse than other types, IMO.
https://livingwithlimerence.com/who-is-to-blame-for-limerence/
Each time I got recurring angry at xLO’s manipulative deeds (proved lies), I went to read this article and then would always gain back some peace, forgiving my own LE mistakes and fostering more self-compassion; otherwise I’d have been gnawed to death for all dumb mistakes I’ve accumulatively made in my LEs!
I also find Carl Jung’s shadow-theory ( “Knowledge rests not upon truth alone, but upon error also.”) speaking to me, it matches Buddhism and the nature’s phenomenon — duality ➡️ without shade, without light.
If our anger is aimed at LOs, we’d always feel helpless; if at ourselves, we at least could do something about it. Your therapy sounds working for you, in terms of integrating all sides of one’s Self — our parental imprint, past traumas, attachment style, inevitable vulnerabilities, errors and shames (“Shame is a soul eating emotion.”-Jung). The only healthy way to deal with them is to bravely examine our unchangeable history and somehow embrace it with a dignity: I’ve made tons of mistakes that primarily “harmed” myself (wasted some precious time), SO WHAT⁉️
‘What doesn’t kill me, makes me stronger’ — Nietzsche
“You are not what happened to you, you are what you choose to become.” — Jung
Grieving cannot be omitted in the process of recovering from LE. I mentioned previously that I always had tough time shredding tears (taught it was a sign of weakness) and prayed to have them flowing, so I chose sad songs to listen to and sad poems to read… After getting some mild tears out gradually in the past few weeks, I have felt more relieved; sometimes joy and laughter immediately followed tears. So please keep “indulging” in your grieving.
I forgot to mention in my previous post that a true Narc intentionally seeks out vulnerable victims before even approaching them; s/he can “smell” those vulnerabilities a mile away, as well spot those tough, “no nonsense” folks who would make him/her to “run for life”. So our task is to reduce/remove our vulnerabilities, then they’d leave us alone. Remember, the deep drive of Narcs is their (un)aware profound, incurable INSECURITY — very sad 😞
I hope expressing/complaining/lamenting here helps you release the stresses of your struggles. I assume your physical running certainly reduces them, right?
🫂
Hi Snow.
Yes, I’ve been running like a demon on fire LOL
There are great trails through the forest here and I get to immerse myself in nature, so that has helped a lot.
I keep babbling about myself and neglect to ask how you are doing.
I was wondering how things have been for you since you don’t have contact with LO anymore? And also because you left your job as well, am I right?
Things have certainly changed a lot for you.
I use to welcome change. I guess because it was a big distraction and got me out of my head (even before Limerence hit me).
But now I just feel anxiety if a change is coming, I feel almost ridged in my routine. I don’t like it.
I wish I could shed some tears. I don’t know if it’s because of my upbringing or because I would consider myself weak for crying over such a ridiculous LO.
I’m feeling a bit better this week. I leave on the 13th to go visit my family and I will be there for my birthday, so that will be nice.
Hi Anna,
I’ve been running in the fields of words like a 🐦🔥 on fire!
I’ve been doing better than three months ago or even 3 weeks or 3 days ago (told Trifles in another post). I am going through mental trials every single day w/o choice, which does not bother me. Besides learning the new system of a HE institution where I’m part-time teaching now, I’m also tutoring 7 days a week. It’s always exciting to learn new things and interact with people; working at home full-time would KILL me soon or later!
But for certain matters (e.g. emotional states), I do not like changes but familiarity and stability. I seek that settling place of “feeling at home” no matter what I do or where I go — an internal solid HOME to return to. I used to seek this home externally (in parents, LOs and SO) but found it WAS/IS impossible, one’s own HOME only exists within oneself, with or without LO/SO.
Like you, I was brought up to look down upon tears as a sign of weakness, but I’ve learned/experienced they are absolutely indispensable healing tools to release our deep sorrows and losses! We need to grieve more for ourselves, not over LO or anyone else ( our tears/sympathy will NOT ease their pains, sorrows or losses).
Only after healing our own “scars” or pains, getting stronger and healthier (mentally/emotionally/psychologically), we could repair or rebuild our HOME and possibly love (Agape) others or take a potential SO. A “beggar/starver” is unable to give sufficient/tasty bread to anyone else who may need it or can appreciate it. We need to be firmly SELFISH in this arena, like in a plane of emergency — your oxygen mask first, then your child’s.
I almost took a puppie three days ago (to replace rLO?😅), but decided to postpone parenting one or two. Too many new challenges on my plates now…
Wish you a great weekend in your preferred ways!
I took the survey now by accident😅I got curious what would be manipulating, as other posters described it, and filled everything in quite quickly and maybe not accurately (didn’t have the energy to ponder on my favorite song for example) since I only wanted to see all questions and not submit it, and suddenly it said thank you for submitting- I thought there would be at least a „submit“ button.
Well, now they have my only half-accurate survey. I‘m not that impressed by it. It implies that we feel more or less pleasant in our limerence, depending on if we thought about LO‘s good or bad sides directly before. Don’t know what good that will do for science. It seems to me a bit too superficial, but that might be because I didn’t think about the questions enough. Good luck to the surveyor, I cannot quite see what relevant information she/he will get from it, but I guess he/she knows🤷🏻♀️
I’d say that is the point of the questions. I noticed how defensive I got with the negative trait questions. But was more elated by the positive trait questions. I feel the survey was trying to gauge our bias. She’s not the perfect angel. Or is she? No she’s not. Wait is she?
“Adam don’t be mad at me but ….” Down the rabbit hole I went.
Maybe it’s because I‘m not really limerent any more.
But I think even fully into my LE‘s I discussed good and bad sides of my LOs with myself so often, I wouldn’t have batted an eyelid to deliver both without feeling defensive or elated.
And their good and bad sides didn’t change my limerent feelings at all, my limerence wasn’t about counting good or bad traits. I just saw them in a different light somehow, but that wouldn’t helped this survey.
But maybe that’s because I knew all my LOs quite well and had lots of interactions and friendship.
It might be different when limerent for people one doesn’t know well or doesn’t see often, but I don’t seem to fall limerent for these people.
Actually, that’s not quite true. To be accurate, for first and second LO I fell limerent in a phase where I didn’t know them that well, I just got to know them, and I learned their bad sides during limerence, but this didn’t change my limerence feelings. (My third, as you know, was an old friend, so I knew all his sides anyway. )
When I first became limerent for my current LO, I didn’t know her all that well – we’d been casually aquainted coworkers with mutual attraction for years, but we didn’t actually know each other on any kind of deep level. When we first started texting and talking all the time, I absolutely put her on a pedestal – I wouldn’t have been able to list a single bad thing about her, and I thought she was the absolute perfect woman in every way. Of course now after almost 2 years of limerence, I know her much better and have a more complete picture of her, good traits and bad traits both. I’d say my limerence level now is maybe 50% of what it was a year and a half ago, measured in terms of what % of the time she occupies my thoughts and how much my moods depend on her, stuff like that. But I don’t know if that’s a function of getting to know her more fully, or just a function of time and the fact that we’ve more or less been in some sort of steady relationship for awhile now. It makes me wonder what my feelings will be like in another year or two if we do end up carrying on the same way we have been – will it end up settling down into some weird emotional affair version of a long term marriage that’s comfortable but not passionate? Or will the barriers to consumating the relationship always keep us in a state of limerence even after many years?
Anyway, I was just thinking that it would have been interesting if I’d taken this survey 2 years ago, and then a year ago and then now, and could keep taking it yearly – I wonder how my answers would change.
Hi all,
“I’d say that is the point of the questions. I noticed how defensive I got with the negative trait questions. But was more elated by the positive trait questions. I feel the survey was trying to gauge our bias. She’s not the perfect angel. Or is she? No she’s not. Wait is she?”
I’d agree with Adam about what the survey was aiming for – but maybe it could have given us a trigger warning, LOL. When I said that I felt ‘manipulated’ it was more that I was answering the same question with the same answer over and over again, despite being asked ‘manipulative’ questions in-between about the LO’s good and bad traits. Like, ‘do you really expect me to change my answer just because I have listed their good traits as opposed to listing their bad traits 5 seconds ago?’. Well, I wont do that because that would be illogical?? Maybe if I was completely unbalanced by severe limerence, my answers would have come out all over the place when asked the same question over and over again, but thank goodness I am not in that particular phase at the moment (and stated as much in one of the opening questions).
Like Mila, I have been familiar my LO’s good and bad traits all along and it was never about that. It was about a particular feeling of closeness to him, for whatever reason (maybe he reminds me of a warm presence in my life) though he is far from perfect. That’s not going to change due to answering a question on his best/worst trait.
Oh, and I wondered if listing favourite movie or song was to see if they were romantic…. they are! But always have been even pre-LE. Or maybe that was just a palate-cleansing series of questions to get the responder into another mindframe before moving on to asking about something else.
In any case, it was interesting because the survey is clearly designed to test a hypothesis’ rather than being more descriptive by letting the responder put what they think is important into a narrative; different approaches with different strengths and weaknesses, I suppose?? I think ‘narrative’ is where one is likely to get more usefulness for I am at right now 😀
In the survey, more than a half of questions about the realistic LO I could not answer, because I simply did/do not know, positive or negative. So if I continued the survey, I’d just leave blank, blank, and blank or N/A.
As I mentioned many times before, the LO in my case was/is this phantom/ghost wearing the face of the realistic LO (rLO). This phantom (pLO), as Nisor pointed out a while ago, was always in my system since the childhood but sleeping most of the time, until some rLO suddenly landed (mostly with first sight, vague/grand Glimmer), waking pLO up for short or long.
Needless to say, this pLO was/is everything I have desired and imagined him to be — a walking “god” in my head, patiently, lovingly, faithfully accompanying me all over places in person and in words (which you’ve already seen….) He is a part of my SELF.
Answering some survey questions would end up attacking and flattering my quirk but powerful imagination — the Phantom 👻. Thus I aborted this survey, and will NOT open another one!
🕊️ and love 💕 to all…
My quirk imagination has not ruined my tiny “dynasty”, but IT did help cure 95% of my lifetime cptsd, and continue supporting and inspiring my realistic living with Agape and more relaxed smiles… ☺️
@Adam.
“I’d say that is the point of the questions. I noticed how defensive I got with the negative trait questions. But was more elated by the positive trait questions. I feel the survey was trying to gauge our bias. She’s not the perfect angel. Or is she? No she’s not. Wait is she?”
I think your brain needs to recognise that your LO does have good traits and she also has bad traits. Your brain needs to accept that “woman with good traits” and “woman with bad traits” is actually one and the same. 🙂
You’re almost limerencing over this woman while answering questions about her. Positive qualities = misty-eyed elation. Negative qualities = an angry defensiveness and desire to defend said woman’s honour. Not that anyone was even questioning said woman’s honour. 🙄😜
We could apply the same psychological insight to yourself. I.e. Adam has good traits and Adam has bad traits. The Adam with good traits and the Adam with bad traits is the same Adam. You don’t need to keep splitting yourself and/or other people into categories of all-good/all-bad. 😉
By the way, I finally got your joke about Frederico being a vampire. Quite some time ago, I said to Frederico that withdrawal symptoms from limerence can make one feel like a member of the walking dead. (Tired, irritable, apathetic, etc. Vampires are “the walking dead” and hence your joke. Ah-ha! Very good. Very clever, my friend. Although I wasn’t thinking about vampires, to be honest. Just to be annoying, I was thinking of … zombies … and hence my slowness in understanding your joke. 😆😁🙂
I took the survey but most of my answers would have been different if I had answered it a year ago. I no longer think I have a mental health condition, but for several years I did experience anxiety and depression and I believe I was (am) prone to limerence when I felt (feel) bad. Otherwise I’ve never had any problems with OCD, addiction or bipolar disorder. None of my therapists have ever suggested I’m autistic.
I’m about as far from a limerence episode as I’ve ever been and I’m gobsmacked that a year ago I was deep into my most severe LE in my life while still occasionally messing around with the PA.
So, what has changed?
Mainly I think I’ve settled biologically. I knew at the time I was having a mid-life crisis and I think to a significant extent it was “last call” for my fertility and youthfulness. I think I was questioning if I could have a “second pass” at earlier life choices but this has fortunately gone away gradually since late last year. Now my interest and awareness of sex (with my SO and others) has pretty much fallen off a cliff and I’m perfectly fine not trying to salvage it (my SO never had much of a libido anyway so we are actually compatible now).
Last month I donated all my “cute” clothing. Outfits that I had known to catch the eyes of my male coworkers or incite approving and flattering comments of female friends and associates. I would go to Chicos to get clothing except I think all of what they sell is garish and sized too large.
I have a uneducated manager that’s 10 years younger than me that keeps calling me “miss” and I’m about to put him in his place! I have a degree and completed several graduate courses, been married for nearly 22 years and have two adult sons.. I think I’ve earned the right to be called “ma’am” and I’m certainly acting like one these days. Thanks be to God!
Curious that I found this survey therapeutic, whereas others found the opposite.
Interesting too, that the negative aspect question was followed by the positive aspects, yet I still found my limerent feelings diminishing.
In my case, I could answer in terms of the person behind the LO, but not everyone has that option.
[We have some congruent values and lifestyle choices, enough to make a connection. And some that are very divergent, but didn’t get close enough to explore.]
So this survey helped me to view the person behind the LO, not just to demonise, but seen in both negative and positive terms, like any whole person, rather than a fantasy construct.
But definitely, dwelling on the phantasm would be the opposite of helpful.
And ruminating about what-ifs is totally toxic, to someone still in limerence
(*the survey doesn’t do this, but it’s one reason you won’t see me posting here much)
Did I take a different survey than most? I didn’t glean any new insights or unveil unexplored hurts like others are reporting. I was honestly trying to figure out the underlying biases of the researcher and rather detached from the actual subject.
Same here☝🏻
I don’t really understand people’s comments on the survey, as I actually found it incredibly easy to take… (Humblebrag. Humblebrag). 😜
For definition of limerence, I just said “obsessive unrequited love”, which is the definition Lucy Bain more or less uses, and which strikes me as perfectly apt.
I correlated “love” with limerence at 50%, because I do believe limerence is a form of love, or at least is a state of mind that can evolve into love. I don’t associate limerence with bipolar disorder or one of the other options I don’t remember. (Mustn’t have been important. Was it depression? No, that doesn’t sound right. Oh, that’s right – trauma. No, I don’t associate limerence with trauma. I think the “trauma causes limerence” school of thought is incorrect. Trauma can bleed into one’s limerence, just as trauma can bleed into many areas of a person’s emotional life, but it doesn’t actually cause limerence in the first place. People with no clinically significant experience of trauma can still develop limerence). 🙂
I saw a high correlation between limerence and infatuation, crush, OCD, addiction, low self-esteem, and insecure attachment. I think limerence can overlap ever-so-slightly with all of the latter and/or induce temporary feelings of deep insecurity in people who are otherwise happy, healthy, and well-adjusted.
I answered “no” to having an LO currently, so the survey didn’t ask me any questions about LO’s good/bad traits, which other people seem to get. 🤔
I didn’t find the survey either triggering or manipulative in any way. I doubt the researcher had any glaring biases that survey-takers need worry about. I think if the researcher asked the same question in a variety of ways, they were trying to get the most accurate answer by narrowing down multiple very similar options, same as when an optometrist asks a patient multiple similar questions, so the optometrist can help the patient find the best prescription for their current level of vision. Most responses patient would give optometrist under said circumstances would be: “the lens makes no difference or only a tiny difference”.
Not everything is a conspiracy, people, even though your stressed-out nervous systems may tell you that it is. No wicked imaginary plotters are plotting to keep you and LO forever apart. 🙄🤣🤣😜 Chill out. Calm down. Relax! 🙂
People who found the survey manipulative, in my opinion, are good-hearted souls who have a lot of trouble accepting help from others. (Maybe because they always want to be the ones to GIVE help to others i.e. rescuer types). That is your blind spot – not being able to accept help but wanting to be the ones to offer help. 😉
People who found the survey triggering, in my opinion, are still in deep denial about some difficult emotional truth buried in the unconscious. These people are hiding from their own emotions for some bizarre reason. Repressing rather mundane feelings in order to preserve an overly inflated ego – that is the blind spot of this second group. People who were triggered by the survey are people who want to live in fantasy forever. (Nothing wrong with living in fantasy forever. Just don’t pretend to yourself or to others that fantasy isn’t fantasy). 😉
Whatever movie villain first uttered the phrase “I am surrounded by idiots!” was surely an INFJ. An INFJ on a very bad day. Not a happy, healthy INFJ. A cranky, unhealthy INFJ. But an INFJ nonetheless. Assuming that everyone in one’s life is a complete idiot (and often most regrettably treating them as such) – that is the blind spot of the unhappy, unhealthy INFJ. Did I just tell on myself? Oops! Maybe I did. 🤣🤣😁
Why not try to spin the Apollonian tail 🐲 for a soar?
Sammy, I thought I’d defend the “second group”. I myself answered that I’m not currently limerent, so I didn’t get the extended version of the survey.
However, as people here have described it (paraphrasing as I can’t be “arsed”, as Brits, maybe Aussies as well, say, to look it up in more detail)…
They were asked to list positive qualities of their LO and then “how do you feel about them?”. Then they were asked to list negative qualities, and then: “how do you feel now, ha ha?” (Haha’s my own)
So to me that sounds a bit oversimplifying and condescending in its view of how limerents function…
Exactly. Every limerent is “functioning” in his/her limrence in different ways, possibly vastly. Then how a bunch of standard questions could capture that? And assume/indirectly “guide” what we would/should think of feel about our LOs?
I understand the nature of a scientific enquiry — data, data, and date towards the same phenomenon. but questions, regardless scientific or psychological, always (mis)lead/manipulate people’s thinking in certain ways or towards particular directions…
No more survey for me, especially on emotional life.
When one denies or battles with one’s own fantasies (when they do not cause any realistic harms), one is damaging and killing one’s 9 Muses and their teacher, Apollo — all hidden within one’s Unconscious — sources of all aspiring and fruited artistic, musical, crafty, scientific, and talented creations and inventions.
No one would be able to enjoy their favorite songs, music, paintings, plays, novels, poetry, sculptures, architectures, fashionable clothes, planes, 350 km/hour trains… if “crazy” fantasies and “lunatic” imaginations did not exist and develop…
Here rise to life again, dead poetry!
Let it, O holy Muses, for I am yours,
And here Calliope, strike a higher key,
Accompanying my song with that sweet air
which made the wretched Magpies feel a blow
that turned all hope of pardon to despair
— Dante, “Purgatorio”, Canto I, lines 7 to 12
*******
Urania, o’er her star-bespangled lyre,
With touch of majesty diffused her soul;
A thousand tones, that in the breast inspire,
Exalted feelings, o er the wires’gan roll—
How at the call of Jove the mist unfurled,
And o’er the swelling vault—the glowing sky,
The new-born stars hung out their lamps on high,
And rolled their mighty orbs to music’s sweetest sound.
—From An Ode To Music by James G. Percival
At home with the muses
by E M Hamilton
It’s a complicated family.
Aren’t they all?
Nine girls would be a handful for any mother.
Mnemosyne does her best, but she cannot be all things everywhere.
Their father has long since left and re-married their jealous step mother does not care for them, so they stay away.
Dad’s a little creepy, anyway.
Polyhymnia, muse of sacred poetry and grammar, is the eldest,
the enforcer of please and thank you,
of fold your hands, and bow your head,
of don’t say ain’t,
of there is and there are.
She is admired but often forgotten.
Poly picks at her sister Erato, muse of love poetry,
“muse of errors, not eros,” she snaps.
“Your shirt is too tight,
your skirt too short.
You stayed out too late.
It’s dangerous. You’re dangerous. We’re in danger.”
Erato rolls her eyes and sneaks
out the second-story window after dark.
Poly’s favorite is Tersichore, muse of dance.
She is the baby of the family,
whose easy smile lures her eldest sister out of her foul mood,
who wears gauzy blouses
who forgets her doctor’s appointments,
but remembers everyone’s birthdays,
who soothes and smiles and deflects Poly’s fury
until she forgets why she was angry,
forgets why the glass on the coffee table was such an offense.
Like Erato, Thalia, too, feels the weight of Poly’s rules,
but she fights back with biting satire.
Her sharp smile is set off by
black hair,
black nail polish,
black dresses,
black boots,
black lipstick,
and she carries her razor-wit in a sheath on her hip.
Poly hears her lectures played back to her in dramas
that leave her sisters in stitches, their sides aching,
but leave Poly lying in the dark,
tears drying in her hair.
Melpomene is Thalia’s twin,
they are rarely apart.
Mel is Thalia’s photonegative-
a bright smile dressed in a riot of colors —
dizzy red jacket,
flower t-shirt,
lime green skinny jeans.
She laughs easily at her sister’s bitter jokes,
when Thalia loses her voice,
Mel spins bloody tales of poetic justice.
Clio, Calliope, and Urania-history, epic, and astronomy-
have marathon study sessions in the library.
Euterpe is a loner, a daydreamer,
singing snatches of songs to herself.
She likes the color purple,
dyes her hair to match her dark nail polish.
She sits on the roof under the shade of a big silver maple just listening,
she comes in only when her baby sister begs,
“play me a song, Eu.
Sing to me;
I can’t sleep.”
@Sammy,
“I think the “trauma causes limerence” school of thought is incorrect. Trauma can bleed into one’s limerence, just as trauma can bleed into many areas of a person’s emotional life, but it doesn’t actually cause limerence in the first place. “
I agree with you that trauma hangover is not a direct cause of Glimmer/crush, but the subconscious desire for pair-bonding. But there is a period between Initial glimmer/crush and the beginning of limerence. People with traumas unknowingly wished/believed this glimmering LO could ‘heal’ their traumas or meet their unmet needs from the past, thus unknowingly, eagerly dial up the intensity of otherwise peachy honeymoon period. In this sense, a trauma hangover leads a big crash into an obsessive infatuation — limerence.
“People with no clinically significant experience of trauma can still develop limerence). 🙂”
Very true. No one claims that trauma is ONLY cause of limrence, but it is just one of plausible ones. (DrL)
“I saw a high correlation between limerence and infatuation, crush, OCD, addiction, low self-esteem, and insecure attachment”
While neuro-wiring could be inherited and insecurity attachment resulted in inadequate parenting, OCD, addiction, low self-esteem are more than often the consequences of traumas (mild ones included), especially addictions (we don’t see children and mammals naturally suffer any kind of tangible addictions.)
My memory works in very peculiar ways: while having forgotten most of factual events and details, I remember emotions, thus the first moment of Glimmer (LO #1, 4, 7) and my following girlish, intense longing for their unconditionally loving, indulging “parenting”.
Now in hindsight, I know for SURE such an un-crunchable longing is caused by the traumas in my early childhood, which then led to those short or long LEs — NOT glimmer and the crush stage.
I also wish it’s true, as you say, that 50% of limerence is love. It does hurt one’s ego and HEART badly to think/acknowledge limerence is all about “pathological”, helpless altered mind and some of us (like me) even “chose” to stick to an unavailable, dodgy LO for so long …
Another very well-worded comment Sammy. I like the way you think..
Bravo.. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I was doing OK with the survey until the bit where they start asking “What’s your favourite …?”. At that point the way they are trying to manipulate you (even though I know it is just in the name of research, nothing darker) was just so obvious, and I gave up. The bit before that seemed fine if they just want general trends about limerence, not to understand individual experiences. Both could be helpful research. Shame the blatant manipulation bit caused me and others to abort, and there was no option to submit with what I’d said up to that point.
@DrL – the tricky one on page 1 was trying to discriminate limerence to any extent from *infatuation*. Potential future blog topic??