I’ve always approached limerence from the perspective of a neuroscientist.
I think it’s fascinating how the basic mechanisms of the reward and bonding systems can escalate a thrilling and intoxicating high into a deeply ingrained behavioural addiction.
At a fundamental level, the strength of transmission in dopamine pathways, and inhibitory feedback from the prefrontal cortex, change. The “wanting” drive gets stronger, and willpower gets weaker.
But, those changes happen gradually, over time, as a consequence of actual human behaviour.
There’s always a physiological and psychological dimension, with each influencing the other.
Today’s post is focused on the psychological dimension.
What goes through our minds while limerence is escalating?
How does reverie and rumination reinforce addiction?
How do the intrusive thought loops that characterise late stage limerence develop?
1. Some theory
I’ve been reading the literature on behavioural addictions lately, and a theory introduced in 2005 seems especially relevant to limerence.
The title of the paper is great: “Imaginary relish and exquisite torture: The elaborated intrusion theory of desire”.
In the two decades since, this theory seems to have held up well, and there has been a lot of new research within its framework.
Briefly, the idea is this:
- An external cue or internal feeling triggers an intrusive thought about a reward
- That starts a cycle of “elaboration” where the impulse leads to “desire thinking” about the reward, which can itself cause pleasure
- As time goes on, elaborations are followed by discomfort about not having the reward yet.
To give a specific example: smokers become addicted to nicotine, and work through the cycle like this:
- Sees someone smoking nearby
- Thinks “I really want a cigarette” (intrusive thought)
- Imagines the smell and the satisfaction of inhaling a lungful. Thinks “it’s been a while since my last, so it’s fine” (elaboration through desire thinking)
- Starts to feel twitchy and unable to concentrate on other things. Desire begins to nag. (Craving feels uncomfortable)
- Has a cigarette
The same sort of pattern would be at work during limerence:
- Sees someone who looks like LO
- Thinks “I really want LO” (intrusive thought)
- Imagines their beautiful face smiling happily. Thinks “I could have a quick look on Instagram” (elaboration)
- Starts to feel twitchy and unable to concentrate on other things. (Craving)
- Seeks LO’s photo on Instagram
The main point of the elaborated intrusion theory is to recognise that the elaborations contribute to the onset of addiction.
The thought loops reinforce the reward-seeking drive and diminish the executive override that should be moderating out-of-control appetites.
That process drives the transition from “exciting romantic thrills” to “person addiction”, but it becomes so habitual that you don’t really notice how it is escalating out of control.
It’s worth digging a bit deeper, because I think there are some riches buried here that can help understand the psychology better.
2. Desire thinking
The elaboration process is all about desire thinking, which will be familiar to any limerent who has ever daydreamed about their limerent object.
So, all of us, basically.
Desire thinking is another important concept in addiction research. It’s usually broken down into two components:
- Imaginal prefiguration
- Verbal perseveration
In plainer language, that means imagining the reward, and self-talk about the reward.
I definitely get the imagination part. Certainly, visual images of the LO frequently intruded into my mind and I build up quite detailed daydreams about our interactions, but for me, the verbal perseveration part is less personally familiar.
The concept is that people can get stuck in repetitive verbal thoughts that justify or rationalise addictive reward-seeking. For drugs this could be thoughts or phrases like “Just a bit more,” or “I’ll feel better when I get it.” Or the classic “I can handle it.”
But, I’m struggling to remember any times I personally had these thought loops myself.
I do remember a commenter a while back saying they were plagued by the LO’s name, which would echo repeatedly in their mind, like a broken record. That would be a great example, but I can’t think of many others.
Maybe: “I’ve never felt like this before?”
So, a question for the community:
Can you remember any specific words or phrases that repeated in your mind when you were in the midst of limerence?
3. Metacognitive beliefs
Once the thought loops get established, the last step in this process is what are termed metacognitive beliefs.
These are the higher-level justifications that are used to make sense of the elaborated intrusions.
So, things like: “I always feel better after gambling.” “I need this to calm down.” “I’ve taken more out of alcohol than it’s taken out of me.”
With limerence, this again seems really well aligned.
- This is true love
- He’s my soulmate
- I can’t bear to be without her
- We’re made for each other
- Love lifts us up where we belong
It’s easy to find stories to tell ourselves about the meaning of limerence that fit within pre-existing beliefs about life and love.
And, unlike destructive addictions, limerence can lead to positive outcomes if you are able to form a healthy relationship with your limerent object.
So, these aren’t even necessarily maladaptive beliefs.
I’m going to keep digging on this theme for a while, as my instinct is that it has a lot of explanatory power.
I’ll also be building a workshop on how to apply these ideas to managing intrusive thoughts and recovering from limerence.
But for now, I’ll end again with that request for your knowledge and experience:
Can you remember any specific words or phrases that repeated in your mind when you were in the midst of limerence?
Look forward to hearing your answers!
Do lines from love songs or poetry count?
For sure, if they were part of the thought loops when you were ruminating about LO.
“The Air That I Breathe” – The Hollies
“Wild Nights” – Emily Dickinson
Are these lines for your SO or LO (can’t remember whether you had/have a LO)?
Found them on SO’s phone.
Also, I re-read the post, caught the “Love lifts us up where we belong” reference!
Got it. Thanks.
A few summers back Taylor Swifts hit Cruel Summer was playing on the radio every 10 minutes. There was a line she uses in the beginning “what doesn’t kill me makes me want you more”. That line always passes through my head whenever I see her and even worse when she makes it a point to talk to me.
The below post is for you.
Thanks, Richie. Looks like song lyrics might be a theme…
Are you and “her” available (in all leaves) to each other for dating?
If YES, it’s wise to take action before involuntarily slipping into the LE addiction.
If NO, such a phrase in the mind would lead you to a further demise.
Edit (auto correction’s fault): “on all levels”
NO! Both married with kids. I believe it’s what Dr L would call toxic or dangerous limerence on my end as I am limerent towards her but have no idea how she feels towards me. And as we’ve learned on this sight at LWL it doesn’t matter how they feel it all spells trouble either way. It’s something I’ve been fighting hard to simply let go of for almost 3 years now.
Ohh… I’m sorry for your situation… 🙁
Otherwise, your LE affection might have melt her heart, who knows… Were there cases (or in pop songs) that LO fell in LE with limerent’s LE? 🤔
By the way, did you try the “past digging” work?
I have tried for over 2 1/2 years digging into my past looking for answers but truthfully nothing adds up.
I think if anything this women takes extremely good care of herself and believes and is a veteran runner like me. She is also someone I share other hobbies/ sports with.
I think if anything she’s simply someone I could see myself enjoying life with while being extremely attracted to. However if this website and all my other research has taught me anything it’s that Limerence is merely a bunch of fantasies and love stories we tell ourselves that are simply made up in our heads.
“I have tried for over 2 1/2 years digging into my past looking for answers but truthfully nothing adds up.”
Hmm…. are you saying that your entire childhood and youth were peachy, smooth sailing all the way to 18 yrs? Your family dynamic was like that of Addams Family? No personal traumas/high stresses at home or school? The cultural environment was more liberal than conservative? (If I know some data, I may be able to help you here.)
“I think if anything this women takes extremely good care of herself and believes and is a veteran runner like me. She is also someone I share other hobbies/ sports with.”
Shared hobbies and sports are strong foundation to connect available couples/dates for a future possible relationship, because sports or any sweaty body movements reduce mental/emotional stresses/discordance, such as normal melancholy, boredom, bickering, argument anger, etc. Do you share some core values and personality traits?
“I think if anything she’s simply someone I could see myself enjoying life with while being extremely attracted to. “
That’s rare in LwL world. Majority of cases here are about LE attraction ONLY— unavailable and unrequited attraction, but little compatibility or potential compatibility for LO and Lm to form a realistic pair-bond. Too bad that you can’t test your beliefs in your situation.
“However if this website and all my other research has taught me anything it’s that Limerence is merely a bunch of fantasies and love stories we tell ourselves that are simply made up in our heads.”
You’re right that Limerence is mainly a bunch of fantasies /love stories existing in one’s head, unrealistic and unhealthy. I truly believe that mutual limerence would be a disaster to both sides— neither party has a logical feet grounded in reality and live day-to-day, often routine life.
But, we can’t totally rely on what we read here and become pessimistic, there is outside world where non-lm&non-lim, lm&non-lm, informed lm&lm live their realistic, healthy love life, like Dr L and his wife.
To me (1 yr post – LE), limerence is selfish, focusing on oneself: my desire, my variety of emotion needs, my longing, etc, just listen to those pop songs, most lyrics are about what’s going in limerent’s head. I could help often ask silently, “what do those singers, with such rich, beautiful emotions, do with/to their beloved after singing?”
Real Love is about caring for the other side more than oneself, courageously to give/show his/her love (Eros + 3~4 kinds) first while letting go outcomes (applying Stoicism here). The other side does the same — a two-way traffic. Real love is founded in accountable words and concrete actions, steadily shown in the interaction with each other.
If both sides are available, they need to date to test out what affection one is having: limerence ONLY — chasing LO for one’s desires or for chasing itself; or (classical) Love — to give and receive affections and gradually connect with each other. If two are still attracted and deeply care for each other after realistic dating for a while( 3~6 months?), then the initial limerence has successfully transferred to real love.
But in your case, you can’t test out your heart/mind — is it LE Only, or mixed with a potential real love? Thus, it becomes a heartache to you. I’m sorry.
Editing on one point:
A mutual Limerence is desirable only when it’s “rational limerence” on both side — can dial up and down limerence based on limerent’s wish/will, viewing LO more as a round person.
The concept was brought by a poster (who ‘loudly’ argued with Dr.L) back in March~April, and I agreed with his point in theory, but wasn’t sure whether he was in that stage yet with his LO as he claimed. I also wasn’t sure whether “being rational” in LE is ever possible.
Now, I think/believe it’s possible, for aware/strong-minded limerents…. so much wiser than two “blind”, indulging “LE junkies” jumping off the cliff….
🍀
As someone whose spouse recently had a limerent affair, I’d like to put in a word for your wife and say don’t do it man. Do not put your wife and kids through this.
My husband saw a therapist while he was still in his affair and she told him that if he really wanted to figure out what he was doing with his life, he had to put the limerent affair on pause and go no contact in order to actually sort through his mind. Then she asked him to describe his relationship with me, his wife. He said his piece and she said “What you just described is actual long term love.” He said reality came crashing in on him and he was full of regret and guilt and horror. He ended the affair completely and we’re working on repair but it is a painful process.
I would like to encourage you to tell on yourself to your wife and say you need help getting out of your situation. If you don’t feel like you can do that, I would also encourage you to get specifically an affair therapist involved and spill your whole story to them.
Have you ever thought of your spouse as your friend or even best friend? Consider not creating a deep attachment wound in your friend at least. Google betrayal trauma and just please consider not doing that to someone, especially your wife.
That’s my two cents as someone going through a lot of pain right now.
I appreciate the advice, thank you. I’m so thankful for everything I have just I’ve always noticed this particular woman and almost 3 years ago after spending some time together limerence hit me like a freight train.
It has never gone past talking casually and I truly believe the limerence is slowly starting to fade.
Thanks for your two cents and I wish you the best of luck.
I had an odd experience before I realized I was limerent for LO, or before I knew what those words meant. I was driving down the street and I saw another car with a vanity plate which read KRZINLV.
The sight of that plate had such an effect on me that I slammed on my brakes, even though there was no reason to. Luckily there was no one behind me.
That’s when it hit me that I was nuts about LO and those words have gone through my mind repeatedly.
Thanks, Norma. Good one.
Although it took me a while to decode, what with being British and therefore reading it as Kr-Zed-inlv 🙂
To Dr. Tom:
We are divided by a common language.
ND,
I translated it as “Crazy in Las Vegas.”
To L.E.:
That works, too.
In the midst of my XLE, I had none of the above phrase or any romantic phrase to ruminate. I did ruminate on what’s happening with my buzzing nerves and on the blurry LO — unable to remember his realistic face outside the workplace.
I felt so wrong and embarrassed to unknowingly fall in LE with a married man, which never happened prior to XLE. Glimmered at unavailable men a couple of times but quickly killed them.
I don’t understand how partnered limerents could ever ruminate on those LE phrases. 🧐
To Miss Snow:
I am in no position to answer that question since I have been divorced for years.
However, I am not sure being partnered would make a difference?
“Can you remember any specific words or phrases that repeated in your mind when you were in the midst of limerence?”
No.
However…
It’s been a long time and I consider myself to be largely “Post-limerent.” I’ve gotten through the tough part. Recent Facebook reels on avoidant attachment describe my relationship to an uncanny degree, including phrases LO #2 and I said to each other. It’s eerie.
Watching these reels has validated much of what I speculated at the time and what therapists also discussed although not in the degree of detail. But, it’s brought up a loop that is recurring frequently:
“I never want to see you again. There’s nothing I want to hear from you and nothing I want to say to you.” – I don’t know why it’s there, but it is.
Maybe, my LCSW friend was right, LO #2 gave me PTSD.
Interesting point, LE. Post-limerence “verbal perseveration” could be significant too.
“Interesting point, LE. Post-limerence “verbal perseveration” could be significant ”
Nothing comes to mind in this regard when I was deep in limerence. As I try to dig myself out of this emotional and mental mess, I’m doing something similar to ‘verbal preservation” to get myself back to reality when the intrusive thoughts come. Longer than a word or phrase, though. Some of what I tell myself…
“THERE WAS NEVER ANYTHING THERE BETWEEN THE TWO OF YOU. YOU HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON AND NO GENUINE ROMANTIC CONNECTION. HE IS NOT THE LO IN YOUR HEAD. HE IS NOTHING TO YOU. STOP BEING DELUSIONAL. FORGIVE YOURSELF FOR FALLING INTO LIMERENCE.”
This one hits me hard though. .
“He is not your security blanket and can offer you no comfort. He is also WAY out of your league, oh and married…”
“All we ever have is stupid meaningless surface level conversations. Not sure how I ever thought there was anything there.
At this point, he would have to fully disclose to me, as I can no longer assume any interaction we have means anything. Assuming is driving me nuts, especially if the interactions are all meaningless. So it’s time to let go and move on. ”
I’m tired and worn out over this whole LE and for good reason. This is unhealthy…
Perhaps the time to take a few days off the work is Now? Overworked body and mind cannot “battle” with LE.
LE exhausts every limerent in the midst it, testing and wearing out one’s will, logic, patience, and energy. It’s Normal, please don’t feel discouraged or demoralized.
Do you have therapists to go to work on your resentment and anger?
What is resisted persists! So Fighting with LE too hard is no way to go; just let your own “verbal preservation” quietly flow in and out of your conscious mind, which will reach/affect your unconscious, to eventually nail the coffin of LE both in T & F mind.
Feel better soon! 🫂
Liamf,
Just read your “verbal preservation” again and I find something in them might negatively affect your Unconscious — the powerful weapon to help win the LE war. Would you allow me to express my concerns here? —
“He is not your security blanket and can offer you no comfort. He is also Way out of your league, oh and married…”
Thinking/saying he’s “out of your league” would put yourself down, No, No, No! Comparing oneself with others (in a list of abstract qualities on paper, which mean little in the matter of heart) is Objectifying oneself and others.
I’d Never associate “security blanket”, “comfort” with any LO, but SO. The statement, “He’s married and will Never be available for me in the suitable Way I want and need!” validates your important needs/wants and does NOT empower any unavailable LO.
“All we ever have is stupid meaningless surface level conversations. Not sure how I ever thought there was anything there.”
The word, “stupid” is condemning yourself here, I’d cut it! I also wouldn’t say, “not sure how…” which sends self-doubts to the Unconscious. Perhaps instead, “all we ever have are superficial and meaningless, but this idiot LE has made my thinking delusional/muddled.” ?
“At this point, he would have to fully disclose to me, as I can no longer assume any interaction we have means anything. “
Hmm… why would he want to fully disclose to you at this point? Why knowing your interactions’ nature is so important to you Now? Do you suspect he’s also in a secret LE with you? If you wait for his answer, you’d be giving your autonomy to him and your anxiety level will rise to the sky. If it’s indeed vital to know, could you fearlessly ask him?
In general, to assume uncertain matters is always “risky” —possibly hurting us badly, especially in human relations. Someone here has wisely pointed out: anything less than a YES, is NO! By assuming and preparing for the worst, one’s anxiety can be largely reduced. If a situation proves a negative assumption/belief is wrong, then you’d be over the Moon — just think of the unexpected dopamine spike! 🎁 )
“Assuming is driving me nuts, especially if the interactions are all meaningless. So it’s time to let go and move on. ”
Yes, “assuming” would drive anyone nuts! (Myself assume the worst every single day but try/do my best for a set of purposes…) What kinds of meanings are you looking for in your interactions with the boss LO?
I’d cut the uncertainty word,“if” here (confusing the Unconscious). I’d say something like, “even if the interactions had some meanings, it can go any further. LO is married and I’m married, we can’t and I don’t want to have EA or PA. There is no point to know his mind!”
“It’s time to let go of LE and move on!”
According to C. Jung (and Stoics) and by my own practices, I know what we think and say have a huge influence on our Unconscious. Without the Unconscious’ “assistant”, it’s Impossible to get rid of LE on the F and thus T level.
I hope this penny of thoughts don’t offend you. I’m very sorry for your mental and physical fatigue/worn out. Please take a good care of yourself, FIRST and Far Most. 🫂
Edit: “even if the interactions had/have some meanings, it can NOT go anywhere further…”
Miss Norma,
With our logical thinking, it does make a difference.
Let’s put morality aside for a bit. To me, partnered LO or partnered limerent can’t put all their emotions/mind in one basket, or we say, “step on two boats with two feet”, wobbling back and forth, never steady/safe.
I guess I was/am possessive or intense in the way that I’d want other side’s “all in” for the time being (I’m capable of doing the same). Partnered LO/Lm are unable, period!
While f2f or through texts/emails, I could sense other side very well. So by intuition, logic, and experiences, partnered LO or Lm are never the Neverland for my valued heart and picky mind to fly to, for momentary fun to or settle down.
I almost never did/do things half-heartedly, it’s “harming” one’s mental health.
I have been thinking for a while, but I cannot recall specific phrases or lines from my LEs. Like some others posted, I can easily name songs or other pieces of music in connection with my LEs, but they aren’t about the words, maybe a bit about the content of the words, but it’s mostly the sound and harmonies I connect (some are without vocals).
Interestingly, like L.E. it‘s more to do with the fight against an LE or limerence that I responded strongly to words, poems, affirmations to let go etc.-
I remember a poem I found on Instagram:
„my arms grew tired
from constantly reaching
so i wrapped them around myself
and allowed them
to rest“
(L.E.Bowman)
That’s a great poem, Mila. Thanks for sharing.
It touches my heart. This fits exactly. Self love is so important to let go!
Phrase loop:
“When we meet, we’re going to fall for each other — it’s set in stone, everything just fits too well.”
Have you yet met your LO, who was in a short film? (Did I remember the fact correct?) Do you have a plan to meet up in a near future?
I never met him and I never will. He doesn‘t want it. we just chatted.
We began over two years ago. After three month he wrote that he is married and lives far away and never had the plan to cheet on his wife. „But then emotions came up“.
I want to let go but it is difficult. It is like an addiction, I still go on his profile to look at him..
I vaguely remember that you were counting weeks on NC/LC last time you came here, now you “just chatted”? Face-to-face online or just in writing? Wow, how did that feel like? Reeled your LE back up or shrank it?
I hope you didn’t chat erotic stuff with him, which sounded (to me) creepy and being taken advantage of in the past, while he’s “happily” married far away and you’re stuck in LE lonely (with a child?).
Do you really want to get rid of this “addiction”? Really impossible just to block his access completely? Just looking at profile without direct communication can get bored down the road for some limerents.
To ❄️
I managed NC for over 4 months.. in the middle of July I failed..
Now I just accept it. There were deep emotions and it just takes time for my heart to heel.
In the beginning we just chatted, shared pictures, telephoned. He took some short videos on himself and we had erotic chats.
Now there is no contact in the same way. He wrote to me two weeks ago but I did not answer. Contact is now: I just go on his profile and look at his picture. I can see when he was online. Two days ago he sent me a smiley.
Last year I suffered a lot. Now it hurts less but I still have him on my mind and I still have the feeling that I „love“ him.
I have a daughter, she is 10. When she asked me over one year ago why I look so sad, I knew I had something to do. I was going to fall in a deep depression.
I think that I want to brake the addiction, right now I feel weak and I cannot block him, I just can’t..
Laloba,
It’s just a setback, and never too late to start again your NC. As you say, accepting it, accepting your “deep emotions” is a self-compassionate way to face it, but the right actions to cut the “addition” still need to be taken!
“In the beginning we just chatted, shared pictures, telephoned. He took some short videos on himself and we had erotic chats.”
That’s powerful connecting, you two must be dashingly attractive to each other to get into erotic chats online fast. You met him on a dating site, right? So he hid the truth of his marital status at the beginning? He’s a F…* liar! (I met a couple on dating apps. before, but I could never glimmer at App men even if they look like Zeus’ cup holders. )
“Now there is no contact in the same way. He wrote to me two weeks ago but I did not answer. Contact is now: I just go on his profile and look at his picture. I can see when he was online. Two days ago he sent me a smiley.”
Not answering his messages shows you had/have willpower! 👍 But I think your LE imaginative rumination, based on viewing his profile, have got held of your emotions. Any emojis from him would continue serving like a “love” bomb!
“Last year I suffered a lot. Now it hurts less but I still have him on my mind and I still have the feeling that I „love“ him.”
I’m glad it hurts less now, time dulls all types of emotions. But LE is NOT love, as you’ve read Dr L and many posts here. I would not use the work, “love” to describe LE addictive desires.
“I have a daughter, she is 10. When she asked me over one year ago why I look so sad, I knew I had something to do. I was going to fall in a deep depression.”
What does “I knew I had something to. I was going to fall in a deep depression” mean? you CHOSE to fall in a depression as something to do?
Clearly your LE has already negatively affected your caring for your daughter, which WILL impact, directly or indirectly, her present and future life. As a loving, responsible mother, could you force yourself to wear an attentive, caring “mask” for Her?
“I think that I want to brake the addiction, right now I feel weak and I cannot block him, I just can’t..”
I understand, it’s LE toxins making you feel weak. But please forgive me to be a bit frank here: You don’t have much room or leisure time, being/feeling weak! You NEED to be strong, “content” and attentive for your daughter’s sake. She’s only 10, her whole life is still been shaped by you and her father (if he’s in the picture). Can you try to ACT like a stronger mother? (You sounded strong and logical while chatting with other posters here…)
You can’t have your body being with her and the mind somewhere else; children are very sensitive to their parents’ moods, mental/emotional engaging or wandering. Do you wanna risk to possibly damage your daughter’s wellbeing now and down the road?
If I were you, I’ll just cold-turkey cut all the contact means with you LO. He’s NOT worth of your daughter happy and healthy upbringing and YOUR own wellbeing! If he’s a truly kind, integrated man, he should’ve backed up a while ago, instead of keeping stringing you for his selfish/greedy needs! 😠
Please feel free to come here, dumping out your sadness or depression — just writing them out, which WILL help!
LO wrote on his profile picture „get in touch“..
He knows I am „there“..
I some times wrote him why I don’t want to write, why NC is better for me, about my suffering I told him and begged him to change his username so that I can’t find him.. He just doesn‘t understand what this all means to me.
„That’s powerful connecting, you two must be dashingly attractive to each other to get into erotic chats online fast. „
Yes, it was very intensive and passionate.
„You met him on a dating site, right? So he hid the truth of his marital status at the beginning? He’s a F…* liar! „
Yes, a dating site. He wrote he is single..
After he told me the truth he was very sad and apologized, he sent me a photo with tears in his eyes. He wrote I am a wonderful woman and he is an assh…
It was the first time this happened to me. Before I haven‘t been on dating sites and I couldn’t imagine something like this happening to me..
„Not answering his messages shows you had/have willpower! 👍 But I think your LE imaginative rumination, based on viewing his profile, have got held of your emotions. Any emojis from him would continue serving like a “love” bomb!“
Sometimes I feel very strong but the past weeks is a big setback. I don‘t know what is happening. I feel sad. Today he wrote on his profile picture „get in touch“.. Dopamin shot! But now the rollercoaster gets downstairs. I nearly wrote him. But what for?
„But LE is NOT love, as you’ve read Dr L and many posts here. I would not use the work, “love” to describe LE addictive desires.“
Rationally I know, emotionally I am so damned stuck to him. He is the most attractive man for me.
„What does “I knew I had something to. I was going to fall in a deep depression” mean? you CHOSE to fall in a depression as something to do?“
I wanted to describe that I suddenly realised, that this LE has a very very bad influence of my health, my life, my mood, my job. And to do something meant that I went to a psychologist, I read books like smitten, and I take antidepressants. Slowly I was going to get better, thats why this setback now is really negative.
„As a loving, responsible mother, could you force yourself to wear an attentive, caring “mask” for Her?“
Yes, I learned to wear a mask, even at work.
„You sounded strong and logical while chatting with other posters here…“
I learned a lot and I really thought I could free myself from him. As I mentioned before, I don‘t understand what is going on with me.
„Please feel free to come here, dumping out your sadness or depression“
Thank you! This site and limerence forum really helped me.
Laloba,
“I some times wrote him why I don’t want to write, why NC is better for me, about my suffering I told him and begged him to change his username so that I can’t find him.. He just doesn‘t understand what this all means to me.”
It’s up to You, not to “find” him online. You can’t expect the other side to do NC for you. If he has no/little knowledge of LE, then he’s unable to understand your mental state. All it takes for you is NOT click on his username… I know it’s easier said than done.
“Yes, it was very intensive and passionate.”
If it’s mutual, it’s Almost impossible to resist. I had LE reciprocated before, in person without PA. It’s indeed rare and marvelous!
“Yes, a dating site. He wrote he is single..
After he told me the truth he was very sad and apologized, he sent me a photo with tears in his eyes. He wrote I am a wonderful woman and he is an assh…”
It doesn’t matte whether he apologized or not, the act itself raised “red flag” about this man. How do you know that he’s not chatting erotic stuff with other women from the same app?
And, you don’t mind being one of his online erotica-chatting ladies? I wouldn’t do it (except with SO) even if getting paid $$$$, I feel sorry for you to do it under LE’s influence. The man was taking advantage of you without truly caring for you in reality, can’t you see it?
“A photo with tears in his eyes”, how do you know they’re not artificial teardrops? And who would take a selfie with tears 😳 You don’t think it’s a visual manipulation to soften your forgiving heart?
Ah… “you’re a wonderful woman” hooked you up and made you stay? Did he say in what specific ways you’re “wonderful”? If Yes, how would he know living hundreds of miles away? if Not, why such an abstract compliment could melt your heart?
“It was the first time this happened to me. Before I haven‘t been on dating sites and I couldn’t imagine something like this happening to me..”
Understandable, much worse stuff could happen (based on reports)in those kind of dating apps; be prepared if you still use it now or for the future.
„Sometimes I feel very strong but the past weeks is a big setback. I don‘t know what is happening. I feel sad. “
It’s typical LE symptom: our limerent brain/mind is unstable, short of logics, little things here or there could subconsciously trigger us into different moods. If you prepare for and even expect that all sorts of moods would suddenly show up, you’d be hurt less when/if they arrive (Stoic).
“Today he wrote on his profile picture „get in touch“.. Dopamin shot! But now the rollercoaster gets downstairs. I nearly wrote him. But what for?”
That’s a profound question to repeatedly ask yourself! Unless he tells you that he’s suddenly got divorced and wish to meet you up for dating and a potential relationship, you should ignore his any hint messages.
“Rationally I know, emotionally I am so damned stuck to him. He is the most attractive man for me.”
That’s LE brain talking. When LE fog gets cleared, you’d see he’s just an ordinary man with flaws (you already saw a big one- Lying!), even if he’s esthetically handsome. There are more free fishes in the sea…
„I wanted to describe that I suddenly realised, that this LE has a very very bad influence of my health, my life, my mood, my job. And to do something meant that I went to a psychologist, I read books like smitten, and I take antidepressants. Slowly I was going to get better, thats why this setback now is really negative.”
I’m sorry that this LE has such a negative impact on your life! Then it’s even more critical to ignore this man’s profile. Can you just bite down your lips, click & delete the app for a while? It’d hard/painful for a first few days, but will get easier.
You can distract your pains by spending more attentive time with your daughter, which is more meaningful and rewarding! By acting out a role, one can immerse into it and truly enjoy it.
„I learned a lot and I really thought I could free myself from him. As I mentioned before, I don‘t understand what is going on with me.”
Understanding alone is not enough to free oneself from LE, but the consistent action — NC. You’re just like one of limerents here who have gone one or more setbacks. It’s expected, so don’t feel demoralized. Please keep your NC, then LE agitated or depressed mind could calm down when LE supplies are constantly cut off…
Good lucks! 🫂
Thanks, Laloba.
I don’t remember any specific words/phrases looping in my mind during the euphoric parts of limerence, but I definitely had some during the dysphoric parts. During the times when it felt new and exciting, or later when it felt close and affectionate, I thought about LO all the time (like virtually every waking moment at time), but it wasn’t the same things looping over and over, it was all different things. During the dysphoric times, ie when she’d suddenly stop talking to me for weeks or months, there were definitely phrase that would repeat over and over again in my mental dialogues with imaginary LO. “When did you stop caring about me?” or “I realized you never really cared about me, you only cared about how I made you feel. When I made you feel good you wanted to be around me; when I made you feel bad or anxious you’d rather just discard me than try to work things out” or “I wish you would argue with me! But you’d rather just cut me out of your life forever than take the chance of having a difficult conversation – that shows me how little I actually matter to you” or “whatever, it is what it is, the world is full of people who used to be close and now they aren’t anymore. I guess it usually sucks for one of them and the other one’s happy about it”
Stuff like this would run through my head over and over again for days or weeks – even when I was doing other things, it was still in the background. And it was super negative and dysphoric, and the only thing that ever relieved it was the eventual reconnection with LO, and so I stayed stuck in that cycle. One time, she and I went 4 months without really speaking to each other after she withdrew suddenly with a harsh text followed by silence; those same thought loops kept playing in my head for the entire 4 months without ever really quieting down at all.
I think that 4 month period did set the stage for the pattern to break eventually however, because when we finally reconnected again in January of this year, it was much more guarded and cautious on both of our parts. We started having some friendly conversations again, but never quite as deep or as affectionate in the past. We didn’t send each other romantic songs anymore; we barely texted each other anymore at all. I mostly stopped initiating contact with her; not really as a conscious plan but more just not wanting to (whereas for like 3 years it was a daily struggle against impulses to contact her). She’d call me or stop by my desk at work once or twice a week, we’d talk, it was nice, and that was it. Sometimes my phone would ring while I was busy with something else, and I wouldn’t even answer (which I never would have done in prior years). Sometimes we’d talk and she’d end the call with “I’ll talk to you tomorrow” and then I wouldn’t hear from her for a week – in the past that would’ve sent me into a total tailspin but now it didn’t, I’d just get on with other things.
And then at some point this spring, I realized I just wasn’t thinking about her any more. Thoughts of her were hardly ever coming into my head spontaneously, and if they did, they didn’t last long – just one thing out of many that I’d think about that day. And it was really nice! And at the same time, I discovered that when I’m not totally hyperfixated on another person (or in other cases a topic or hobby or something), the inside of my mind is a really chaotic and noisy place, with dozens of thoughts and topics all coming in and out at once, none holding my attention for long. One description I read of the ADHD brain’s internal monologue is that it’s like having 20 web browser tabs open all at the same time, to 20 different pages about 20 different topics, and a toddler is randomly toggling between them every 15 seconds or so, all while several songs drift in and out as well. That’s how it was feeling to me once the thought loops about LO let go.
This led to me eventually seeking evaluation for ADHD (with the strong encouragement of my SO, who had diagnosed me 20 years ago), getting diagnosed, and starting treatment, which I’ll write more about another time. But one thought I’ve had is that perhaps one reason people with ADHD seem to be pretty susceptible to limerence may be that even though it’s really unpleasant to be stuck on the same negative thought loops all day every day, it’s definitely less cognitive effort for the brain to just keep thinking the same thing over and over again than it is to try to juggle a million different thoughts that keep coming in and out of focus, so maybe the brain chooses hyperfocus as a defense mechanism for itself or something
Really thought-provoking post, LiS. Thanks. That idea about monomania for LO drowning out the ADHD chaos is really interesting.
Dr L,
If LE can drown out the ADHD chaos, then does LE make mental (fear- free, ff) OCD worse, or the OCD induce LE quicker and make it last longer and deeper?
The XLE is definitely gone, but my mff-OCD is still here (I don’t fight any rumination), which makes me more prone to more LEs?
When things are going well, the thoughts can be snatches of songs that pleasantly remind me of the LO. During periods of depression, it can be things like a sharp tone from LO, played in a loop trying to figure out if it means anything, or depressing song lyrics played over and over.
And, of course, there are other conversations and events played constantly, whether in the background or pulled out of my memory and indulged in. These thoughts can be quieted for a while if something else occupies my mind, like trying to figure out a computer problem, or watching a movie. (Though if there’s a romance in the movie, the thoughts don’t stay gone for long!)
I have always had constant noise in my head, including thoughts, conversations, music earworms, stories I’m working on, politics, daily issues, whatever the case may be. And what is called “religious OCD” from my fundamentalist upbringing. The “limerent OCD” just fits right in. Though it can be overwhelming when it interferes with my everyday life because I can’t focus. But that’s only in certain stages of the LE, such as right when it starts or right when it ends.
Picking up on the thread in the comments, most of the bits that stuck in my head as self talk were song lyrics too.
My ‘LO playlist’ was no more than about 15 songs (to suit various moods) on repeating loops. I haven’t listened to those songs for a year.
So rather than revisit that and ruminate, I have a question for you all – who else has been down the rabbit hole of finding songs where your LO’s name is in the song title?!
With my LO’s name there are several. I found one that was so
apt to the situation I was in with her. The power that song held over me for a long spell was stupid – just because of a name in the title.
Obviously this sub-topic will have NO links to videos posted!
No, I’ve never gone looking for songs with the last two LO’s names in the title. Ever. Never occurred to me to do that.
Mary is the most common female name in song titles. Nailed it. 🙂
Marcia,
I suspected this might be more one for the males here. I bet you money right now that ‘your dudes’ have found songs with their LOs’ names in.
And no, she isn’t called Mary 🙂 Though it would be funny if she was.
LaR,
“I bet you money right now that ‘your dudes’ have found songs with their LOs’ names in”
What dudes? I don’t really have male friends anymore. I learned my lesson. 😉
“And no, she isn’t called Mary 🙂 Though it would be funny if she was.”
Ok. Then it’s Maria, Georgia or Jane. 🙂
“Jane” by Jefferson Starship. Great song. Some of the lyrics …
Jane you’re playing a game called, hard to get by its real name
Making believe that you just don’t feel the same
Oh Jane
Jane, you’re playing a game you never can win, girl
You’re staying away so I’ll ask you where you’ve been, baby
Like a cat and a mouse (cat and a mouse)
From door to door and house to house
Don’t you pretend you don’t know what I’m talking about
Marcia,
“What dudes? I don’t really have male friends anymore.”
The two LwL ‘Brothers with a capital B’.
I nearly put a disclaimer in my last message saying that I am not answering yes or no to any more questions about names. Before you work through the whole female names catalogue and stumble on it 🙂
LaR,
“The two LwL ‘Brothers with a capital B’.”
I haven’t heard from them in so long, I no longer consider them my dudes. 🙂
“I nearly put a disclaimer in my last message saying that I am not answering yes or no to any more questions about names. Before you work through the whole female names catalogue and stumble on it 🙂”
It’s Jane. You and I both know it. 🙂
Considering how you’ve described her, I expected a name that wasn’t so … beige. 🙂
My LO’s tend to have very common names, so I hear them a lot in various places!
I am not sure if I am answering the question correctly, but I got fixated on the song “Creep” by Radiohead when I first became limerent for LO.
I told LO about the song, and he wasn’t familiar with it, and wondered why on earth I would choose something called “Creep?” He thought the song must be about an unpleasant person? But I explained that it was a love song. I played it for him, and he said he had never heard it before.
At the beginning of the relationship, I identified strongly with the lyrics, what with it being a self-deprecating, worshipful ode to someone who is too amazing for words. I particularly got hung up on the lyrics, “You’re just like an angel, your skin makes me cry.”
I still love the song and listen to it often. But I feel differently now when I listen to the lyrics. I feel that I have been much kinder to LO than he actually deserves. Three+ years has taught me that he is inconsiderate, forgetful and unreliable.
His skin still makes me cry, but I no longer feel inferior.
It is a great song. I think of myself because I too think very highly of LO, yet I know the ship has sailed.
Creep still holds up because its a common word used by many younger Women who feel that way about a lot of men. Even men with good intentions. Modern dating has become a real $#!+show as we’ve supposedly evolved with all the communication technolgy. I feel like all its done is make things worse and more people miserable.
To MJ:
I have no idea what the dating world is like now. I haven’t been on a date since the early 1980s.
I met my ex-husband through a singles newspaper ad, which was considered cutting edge at the time.
Glad I’m not in the market. Sounds pretty scary. Just meeting LO at Starbucks is more than enough excitement for me.
I am glad that I really liked the song “Creep” before I met LO, because I hope that I don’t associate the song with him for the rest of my life.
Hi Norma,
The lyric from Creep that I like best is ‘you float like a feather, in the beautiful world’.
Radiohead have a lot of good songs. One of them, ‘Black Star’, helped me deal with the darker side of my feelings about the LE: https://youtu.be/d7lbzUUXj0k?is=j3UwLO416luTSer9
I can twist just about any lyric to mean what I want it to mean, but this one hit the nail on the head:
“I get on a train and I just stand about, now that I don’t think of you,
I keep falling over, I keep passing out, when I see a face like you,
What are we coming to? What are we gonna do?”
Find the version of it on Youtube with (not official) video if you don’t mind a bit of dark humour. I don’t want to link it because I think it needs a bit of a trigger warning – it is dark!
To LaR:
I am not a Radiohead expert at all. Thank you for telling me about “Black Star.”
Norma,
They went rebellious and refused to play Creep at live shoes for years, because it was the only one the fans knew and demanded, out of a massive catalogue.
Give me an adjective or two to describe what you want from your limerence music, and I’ll find you another recommendation 🙂
To LaR:
I don’t know what I want from my limerence music.
I just went to pieces a little earlier over “Unchained Melody,” so maybe I am not doing as well as I thought.
Norma,
I feel like you need some anger music so that your LE playlist doesn’t get too rose tinted:
Try the long guitar bit of this song (from 5:50 onwards). The few lyrics in that part don’t matter. I get this stuff is personal and may not transfer well, but the guitar solo bit of this song has kind of helped me to process the emotional rollercoaster of my LE at different stages – both the euphoria and the anger:
https://youtu.be/4QI5OgFRB98?is=-aQPmW7F3q6QwaUe
To LaR:
I couldn’t understand a word of it, but I feel better now.
Thank you.
Good morning Dear. Are you drinking coffee? If not, you should be. Drink one for me would you? ☕️
Wish I was there to see your happy smiling face, so I could rattle your chain in person, in the morning.. 😆
I had a message for you, ready to go but I somehow managed to delete it. Not too bright. I was answering all your questions from a few weeks ago. I’ll have to do a re-do. My answers were good I thought.
Guess I’m getting old. You wouldn’t know anything about that would you?
Btw, whats wrong with this Woman?
https://youtube.com/shorts/CIHkL0DkFJs?si=jLNmx72nynw_As33
Have a wonderful day my friend.. 😁
MJ,
“I had a message for you, ready to go but I somehow managed to delete it. Not too bright. I was answering all your questions from a few weeks ago. I’ll have to do a re-do. My answers were good I thought.”
So there’s this phrase floating around the internet that I keep seeing. I’ve adopted it recently. It frees me up a little of trying to understand people. I’m applying it with you here … but it applies in general. May sound like I’m bitching at you. I’m not trying to.
“If they wanted to, they would. ”
Kind of sums all of life, no?
“If they wanted to, they would. ”
Kind of sums all of life, no?”
Marcia
I believe it. I mean that. I’m at a point right now I want to give up.
Pull a Ariana Grande and step away from everything. I know how it feels. I feel like giving up on people. Because I feel like they’ve given up on me.
Yet I know I’ve been just as guilty not being interested in being around others for whatever reasons they annoy me. If I wanted to be around them, I would. It’s so freaking true..
Mother Teresa believed many people are inherently selfish, but forgive them anyway.
This is a very hard task to do.
MJ,
I was talking about you and the excuses you keep giving me for not responding to my post. Duh! 😉
If you wanted to you, you would. You’ve responded to other peoples’ posts in the me meantime.
“Pull a Ariana Grande and step away from everything. I know how it feels. I feel like giving up on people. ”
Are you keeping up with pop culture so you can talk to your younger babes? 🙂
She intrigues me. Slightly. Not a lot but slightly. Her personal life with men is so messy. She’s not a girls’ girl, that’s for sure. Goes right for the bread and butter. (That’s men, just so that we’re clear. :)) And then you see who she’s fighting over, and you think: Really? That guy?
“Mother Teresa believed many people are inherently selfish, but forgive them anyway.”
All people are inherently selfish. It’s human nature.
“I was talking about you and the excuses you keep giving me for not responding to my post. Duh! 😉
If you wanted to you, you would. You’ve responded to other peoples’ posts in the meantime.”
Marcia
Do not look at this through a negative lens. I still respond to you. Look at it like you’re special. Because you’re about the only one I go back and forth with here, more often than not. The only other ones might be Brother Adam or LaR.
You have comments/questions and I want to give you back the proper reply they deserve. I really did accidentally delete an entire message, answering a ton of your comnents/questions. I was trying to copy and paste something and forgot to un-highlight some paragraphs. Which in turn deleted more than I wanted. So this is my fault. It has nothing to do with not wanting to reply. I do.
“Are you keeping up with pop culture so you can talk to your younger babes? 🙂”
Of course I am. Us old folks here need to stay relevant. Obviously you’ve heard the story about her too, since you replied about it.
I’m kinda on the fence with her. Take or leave her.
She’s cute and all (latina of course) I don’t mind her work but she’s disturbingly way too skinny. Easy to see she has way too much on her plate.
“Playing with fire”🔥 was definitely a thought-loop phrase, especially since it had multiple meanings.
To LaLoba – how would you feel if your daughter ended up married to some creep like your LO? His behavior would put her health and safety at risk.
Also, you’re just one of many women he’s “dating”.
Tell this man’s wife what he’s doing, for her health and safety, and your peace of mind. Her awareness of her horrible situation will help end his attempts to contact you.
To Lost in Space and Dr. L – please continue to explore the hyper focus/monomania aspect. It was enlightening to read and fits well with what is happening to my SO. I definitely want to hear more about your experience and thoughts on this!
“When your eyes met mine, my soul pointed at you and whispered to my heart, ‘Him’”
I found this quote early on in my experience and it pretty much hit home. That’s exactly what it was like for me. I kept hearing this over and over in my head for years.
Happy to say I no longer hear it now and it doesn’t hit home anywhere near as much as it used to, but it took time to fade.
Hi Dr L,
As I have tried to focus on other things and live purposefully, I also have been plagued by the LO’s name, which sometimes involuntarily echoes in my mind and replaces the fantasizing. I’ve noticed it seems to happen more when I’m very stressed. I was relieved to see that someone else had experienced something similar.
“How many more of these am I going to get?” I kept hearing that in my head. That I’m limerent, that the other person has expressed some kind of interest, and that he was willing to move on it. Getting all of those factors to line up … it had been almost 20 years. No one has an infinite amount of time and chances.