My last YouTube video was stimulated by finding a new paper on how bad people are at judging each others attempts at mindreading romantic and sexual interest.
I’ve written about this topic before, but the video goes into more detail.
Hope you enjoy it!
Picture this.
You really like someone, but you’re not sure if they like you too.
So you look for signs—are they holding eye contact, standing close, playing with their hair, maybe laughing a bit too loudly at your jokes?
It seems like there might be something there.
But then you wonder: perhaps they’re just being friendly; they like you, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they are into you, romantically.
In this video I’ll show you how to find out if someone actually finds you attractive, and how to avoid getting stuck in a limbo of uncertainty.
Right, so, how to you find out whether someone finds you romantically attractive without making a fool of yourself?
Well, there are some classic signs to look out for and that’s a good starting point.
So, let’s start with…
1. Body language
This is what most people think about when they start trying to “read” another person.
And it’s undeniable that arousal, excitement, and desire, show themselves physically.
I’ve talked about some of these signs in a previous video on how to tell if someone is experiencing limerence, and there are a few key indicators.
Eye contact, for example, is an especially potent sign.
We like to look at people that we find attractive.
And that can lead to a distinctive pattern of behaviour, where we realise that we’ve looked a bit too long, so glance away, but then wonder how the other person has reacted to our gaze, so we look back.
So, long eye contact, embarrassed quick break, then look back.
Similarly, our bodies telegraph arousal. Racing heart, sweating palms, shaky hands, nervous laughter—these are all cues that give away excitement.
Or is it anxiety?
Another classic example of a body language cue that supposedly signals romantic interest is playing with hair (especially for women). So, the idea is that this is an unconscious act of preening or grooming that signals excitement.
Or is it nervousness?
Now, some people try to elevate reading these body language signs into an artform. They analyse body leaning angles. Using mirroring, pacing, and leading to try and build rapport. They grade the levels of blushing, or eye contact, or breathing rate, or lip licking.
The problem is that, in reality, all of these cues can be misread or misunderstood.
It’s also quite hard to read them while also behaving like a normal person.
The reality is that these clues are subtle and hard to interpret confidently.
Someone can be pleased to see you, and light up when you come near, and smile, give you a hug, and seem really happy, just because they like your company as a friend.
And someone could be nervous and excitable because they’re worried about making a good impression, or even because you make them uncomfortable.
Likewise, some people shut down when they’re nervous, they flatten their expressions and mute their body language. So they like you, the emotional storm of being near you inhibits their body; concealing their intent rather than giving it away.
And finally, of course, not everyone is neurotypical. For some people all these subtle cues are easily missed, not understood, and not returned. Eye contact does not have the same meaning. Social signs are misconstrued or not perceived at all.
People aren’t as easy to read as we’d like to believe.
So, is there something a bit more obvious, a bit more reliable as a measure of romantic interest?
What about…
2. Flirting
Yeah, OK. So if someone is leaning in close, laughing at your jokes, gazing into your eyes, accidentally brushing against you whenever they can, winking suggestively, and making constant sexual innuendo, you might be onto something.
But flirting is another behaviour that is fraught with misunderstandings.
People’s motives for flirting can be very variable.
Some people see it as sport—just a playful way to add a bit of sparkle and excitement to social life.
Others use it as a way of communicating admiration, but without any intention to act on their desire. So it’s a sort sidelong way of saying “I find you attractive, and I’d like you to know that, but I’m not going to do anything about it”.
Some people flirt with everyone, others only flirt with the select few they really like.
And, of course, people vary in their prowess for flirting.
Some are like virtuosos, and flirt with an easy charm that is very flattering and makes other people feel special. Others have the grace of a bull in a china shop, barging around with crude jokes and clumsy innuendo.
Finally, flirting can potentially carry a high risk in the wrong context. Flirting at work for example is fraught with danger—you might be seen as trying to gain favours, or manipulate other people, or even sexually harassing a co-worker.
There are obviously times when flirting is a bad idea.
So, where does all this leave us when it comes to figuring out if someone else actually does like us romantically?
Well, in a bit of a mess, frankly.
3. The uncertainty trap
The fundamental problem with relying on reading body language or motives for flirtation is that we can never actually know what’s going on in other people’s minds.
We can’t reliably infer their intentions from outward signs of arousal.
The signals are just too ambiguous—the “signal to noise ratio” is low—so your own preconceptions will shape how you interpret them and respond.
OK, so maybe people who are really infatuated—who are limerent for you, for example—will struggle to hide the signs of attraction from bursting out.
But, for more subtle signs it’s easy to misread platonic attraction as sexual or romantic interest.
Someone who really likes you, but only as a friend. Or someone who admires you, and lights up with the enthusiasm of a fan. Or someone who is flattered by the attention that you give them and enjoys being desired.
In fact, most of us are actually quite poor at recognising when other people are flirting with us.
There’s a good body of evidence that both men and women routinely mistinterpret romantic and sexual interest.
Men have a tendency to overinterpret female friendliness as sexual interest.
Women have a tendency to underinterpret male sexual interest as friendliness.
Both sexes tend to assume that other people are more motivated by sex than they are.
Now, that in itself is part of the tragicomedy of romantic life, but things can get even worse.
If we spend too long scrutinising and analysing how someone feels about us, we can end up going down a rabbit hole of rumination and obsession that ends up making us want them even more.
Hesitation and indecision adds to the uncertainty of mindreading, and that can lead into an unexpected trap.
They become a central puzzle in your life, a reward you can’t secure, a prize you’re desperate to win but which always seems just out of reach.
Those are the perfect psychological conditions for reinforcing limerence, a romantic infatuation that can escalate into an addiction to another person.
What’s even worse about that is that limerence wrecks your judgement. Once you’re in a state of intense infatuation, you’re so desperate for reciprocation of romantic feelings that you overinterpret like mad—seeing hints everywhere and seeking signs of hope in everything they do.
You’re in an altered state of mind, and that makes it even less likely that you’ll be able to read them accurately.
4. How to find out for sure
Right, so I’ve spent most of the video casting doubt on all the classic ways to find out if someone is attracted to you—it’s time for a bit more optimism.
So when you’re faced with a signal to noise problem, the simplest solution is to reduce the noise.
You can’t really rely on indirect measures of revealed attraction.
You have to be direct.
You have to cut through all the noise and uncertainty by just coming out and expressing your own feelings, honestly.
How and when to do that will depend on the specific circumstances you’re dealing with, and there are also different expectations and strategies, of course, depending on if you are a man or woman, and on your sexual orientation.
But directness is always the best route forwards.
So, the first step is to look for objective signs that there’s no hope.
If the person you are attracted to is married, or flirts with everyone they meet, or is unavailable or unsuitable for some other reason, whether or not they’re attracted to you is irrelevant.
It’s a lost cause, so it’s best to just stop trying to solve the riddle and walk away.
Assuming instead that you and they are free to act, by all means try and read their body language and flirting behaviour.
Now if there isn’t much signal to be seen, don’t give up hope, but do be cautious about how to express yourself. Unless you’re really skilled at banter, just go for simple honesty.
I think you’re really great. I like you a lot. How do you feel about me?
Or just the totally straightforward,
Would you like to go on a date?
Now you might feel like you’re risking a lot with this direct approach, but the pain of rejection is a short, sharp blow to the ego.
Compare that to the long, slow agony of falling into unresolved limerent obsession. That can go on for months, even years. It really is no contest.
If you do think you can see signs of attraction from them, the same direct approach works, but you can also be a bit more daring.
You’re gorgeous. Wanna to go on a date?
Directness takes all the uncertainty out of the situation.
You can’t hover in the friendzone anymore, hoping that maybe you’ll persuade them into a romantic relationship one day.
And you also won’t descend into the hell of limerent rumination, if you have asked a direct question and got a direct answer.
So, the point of this is that the hints and clues and signs and person-reading should only ever be a prelude to actually taking action.
They can certainly determine how confident you feel about taking a chance, but the only way to know is to cut through the noise and be direct.
Developing the resilience to risk rejection but seek certainty is a much more valuable skill for finding love, than developing the ability to measure pupil width and breathing rate.
And as a last point, it’s also worth pointing out that some people out there know all the body language signs, and they use them, to manipulate others.
They test how responsive someone is to their subtle signs of attraction in order to determine whether or not they could “land” that person.
These players enjoy the thrill of the chase. They get a high from seducing others into falling in love with them. They plant false hope, so that people get hooked on them, because they get emotional reward from inspiring desire.
Being direct spoils these sorts of games. They can be neutralised by simple honesty. It takes all the fun out of the chase if you just come out and say that you are attracted to them.
It ruins the game as they can’t use plausible deniability to dance around on the edge of propriety anymore.
So directness let’s you know for sure if someone finds you attractive, and it also liberates you from time wasters and game players.
Let’s not leave out banter.
https://examples-of.net/is-banter-flirting/
One of the outcomes of banter is to build rapport. If you’re a limerent, rapport appears to be a stepping stone to attachment.
LO #4 and I engaged in Sarcastic and Intellectual Banter to the point where other moderators on her site began to question it.
LO #4 once said that my correspondence with her contained two of her favorite things, imagery and snark.
👩🦰 🏃♂️,
As an ESL speaker, I’d be 99.9% lost if a native-speaker tries to banter with me, with whatever purpose in his/her mind.
LO5, a HSP, artistic intellectual in limerent camp, used to love banter but told me that banter with other women never really worked, he wasn’t sure why… But I think while banter is not a primary way to build connection, unable to banter would certainly make one feel dull, inadequate or plainly stupid. 😏
Regardless different cultural and linguistic background, in order to well understand each other and build up emotional and mental rapport, friends and partners need to clarify “an emotional and mental dictionary of love (7 types)”; otherwise, even Wittgenstein would be driven mad!
https://youtu.be/qbW-513h5vg?si=g1lARSmF9a5cxB5E — A Dictionary of Love.
Never make assumptions even if you (plural) speak same Mother tongue!
Snow,
IMO, to effectively banter one has to like that kind of interaction. Some people do, some people don’t. I think effective banterers need to be:
Empathetic – It helps with knowing who you’re dealing with.
Perceptive – You want to be ahead of your sparring partner.
Quick-witted – In verbal banter, time is of the essence. In written banter, you have more time to craft a perfect retort but the sooner the better.
Fluent in the language – Banter/repartee is a game of nuances and finesse. It’s a rapier not a cudgel. Vocabulary matters.
LO #1 & LO #4 liked to banter and were good at it. LO #2 and my wife are capable of it but don’t like to banter.
If I see someone I think I’d like to banter with, I send something out and see how they respond.
👩🦰 🏃♂️,
“IMO, to effectively banter one has to like that kind of interaction. Some people do, some people don’t. I think effective banterers need to be:”
It’s just like enjoy games, poker or chess playing, etc. Banter is a verbal French Fencing — sophisticated, sharp and can “kill”.
“Empathetic – It helps with knowing who you’re dealing with.”
Definitely, you learn about the other side’s strength (“Selfs”), personality (“protectors”) and (mostly covered) vulnerabilities (“exiles”. We all wish to be seen, understand and appreciated; some desire them more than others.
“Perceptive – You want to be ahead of your sparring partner.”
If it’s just for the fun of playing game, wanting “to be ahead” is understandable and even preferable. But in close friendship or romantic relationship, do we treat the other side as a “sparring partner”? What about desirability, harmonious connection, or loving intimacy? Can two matching chess players necessarily become compatible, lovable partners in a steady, fulfilling relationship?
“Quick-witted – In verbal banter, time is of the essence. In written banter, you have more time to craft a perfect retort but the sooner the better.”
Most certainly! I really enjoy reading others’ written banters (getting better in verbal ones in real time, ie. In movies), but I’m utterly incapable of playing it as ESL speaker.
“Fluent in the language – Banter/repartee is a game of nuances and finesse. It’s a rapier not a cudgel. Vocabulary matters.”
Totally required! Even in my native tongue, I don’t like it. In general, I dislike superficial chitchats or verbal-game playing that revealed subtle or obvious complaints or cynicism. I also found wanting to show off or proving they’re smarter than you is off putting. Intelligence or knowledge is NOT maturity or wisdom; haven’t we seen very intelligent and knowledgeable people losing “their head” here? 🙂
“LO #1 & LO #4 liked to banter and were good at it. LO #2 and my wife are capable of it but don’t like to banter.”
That might explain why your wife has become and still remains your wife, not LO#1 or LO #4. (The same applies to the highly intelligent, knowledgeable, witty, and artistic but cynical, depressed LO#5 here: despite my repeated efforts, I couldn’t cultivate that Glimmer or adequate adoration for him in decades… )
“If I see someone I think I’d like to banter with, I send something out and see how they respond.”
I like sincere, honest conversation/chats in which either side is not afraid of relaxing IFS’ “protectors”, revealing vulnerabilities, and showing authentic “Selfs” — everyone HAS them, be they still sleeping or awakened.
If you try to banter with me, you’d end up explaining yourself and losing all its fun! 🙃
Per this post, I think verbal banter can be a sign someone finds you attractive. It reminds me of Old Hollywood couples like Bogart and Bacall.
For me, personally, I’d have to already find the person attractive and being able to banter with them would be a plus. But it doesn’t make me attracted to the person.
Marcia,
In my experience, with some women, where their mind goes, their body follows.
I really got that vibe with LO #4. However, there’s a fine line between assertive and obnoxious. I went at her too hard. I thought there must have been one he’ll of a prize inside that Cracker Jack box.
You shouldn’t be doing well what you shouldn’t be doing at all.
“In my experience, with some women, where their mind goes, their body follows.”
I agree, it’s why someone like Salman Rushdie has women lined up. He’s brilliant.
But for me, the brilliance is a separate quality. I have to be attracted first.
Isn’t it the same for men? You want a woman who is, for example, kind, but if you’re not attracted to her, the kindness is kind of irrelevant.
I still have the same reaction to Momma taking off her shirt to change in 1999 as I do in 2026. And she has the same reaction to my reaction. I don’t think a lot of women understand how simplistic men are. Personally no woman needs to be conventionally attractive. At the same time I can find Anne Coulter so damn hot but not a good person. And Momma wants to punch me for it.
Recently I was looking at some family pics from about 20-25 years ago. Around the time my kids were still very young. I forgot how cute my Wife was then and how many pics I took of her before my Daughter was born. Obviously I was attracted but never to a point I was crazy or limerent over her. She had a simplicity about her that was cute all by itself. I remember her kindness and laughter. The way we worked as a couple. I miss that.
I started getting emotional seeing her as a young 30-something Woman again and regret all over, screwing a good thing up.
To Adam:
Very surprised that you find Ann Coulter to be hot.
Brother
I get you reminiscing about your wife. I recently got a new phone and all the photos on iCloud were on my phone. 10,000 of them. I saw a picture of Momma from probably around 2020 (when she took a picture in the car coming back from the saloon) and her hair was all colored and curly and she had a bang that came down in her face. It’s probably my favorite picture of her. It’s the wallpaper on my phone. It wasn’t that she spent $80 once the Covid lifted it was just Momma looked so damn hot. Daddy wanted to 😏
Dear Norma
I feel the same way about Sarah Palin. Something about conservative women bowls the ball down the alley for me even when I don’t agree with their views. Darling is very liberal and I like that about her. But maybe that’s it. Darling really hates I like Coulter at that level. Palin a little less so I think
It’s an interesting topic. Do someone’s celebrity crushes (for lack of a better description) affect how you think about them? I’d say yes. I have asked guys who they like. Sometimes I’m pleasantly surprised because their choices are interesting. Or at least the reasons why they like the woman are interesting. Beyond just: She’s hot. But sometimes their choices are disappointing. Or downright horrifying. 🙂
“Something about conservative women bowls the ball down the alley for me even when I don’t agree with their views.”
Brother
You would probably really like Kat Timpf then. I know I do. LF has glasses just like hers. It’s hot. Look her up.. 😆
OMG. You two really are brothers. 🙂
I have heard enough about your taste. I’m going to have to find some other dudes to talk to. 🙂
I think Norma will be joining me in my search, but I’ll let her speak for herself. 🙂
To Marcia:
I am shaking my head.
ND:
“I am shaking my head.”
I’m having a wave of nausea. 🙂
“OMG. You two really are brothers. 🙂 I have heard enough about your taste. I’m going to have to find some other dudes to talk to. 🙂 ”
Marcia,
You can’t find some other Dude to talk to. I didn’t give you permission to find some other Dude to talk to. I run your ship. We’ve talked about this.😆
Besides if you were seeing and reading correctly, you would have noticed my post was directed at Brother Adam. Not Dear Marcia. 😆
Just be glad I didn’t mention for him to look up Karoline Leavitt. He might find her very likable also. I’ve been crushing on her for a minute. And she’s into older Dudes too. She’s only 28 and her Husband is like 60.. Lucky freakin Dude he is. Comin home to that every night. Having his babies.
Age gaps rule.. 😁
MJ,
“You can’t find some other Dude to talk to. I didn’t give you permission to find some other Dude to talk to. I run your ship. ”
This is the most interesting you’ve ever been. 🙂
“Just be glad I didn’t mention for him to look up Karoline Leavitt. He might find her very likable also. I’ve been crushing on her for a minute. And she’s into older Dudes too. She’s only 28 and her Husband is like 60.. .”
I didn’t know she was so young. I thought she was at least 35.
“and her Husband is like 60.. .”
He’s very wealthy.
It’s a smart move on her part. Do her time and eventually be set for life. And she can still hook up with the pool boy. 🙂
“This is the most interesting you’ve ever been. 🙂”
Marcia
I hope you mean that in a good way. Been trying to tell you forever I’m a good Dude. Besides just some random middle aged twit limerent, that can’t ever get a coffee date. Sometimes I even like myself but its rare. I’m my own worst enemy. 😆
“I didn’t know she was so young. I thought she was at least 35.”
Yeah her speech style makes her appear older. I happen to like her confidence. I find it super attractive when a Woman is smart and speaks intelligently. Like she owns the room. Probably the reason I always liked the Woman Manager I had back in my 20s. She was older than me but ran things her way. I never minded. I found her kind of attractive.
“And she can still hook up with the pool boy. 🙂”
I’ll be her pool boy, yard man, chauffeur, butler, slave, whatever, if it means a hookup. 😆 That is ONLY after I meet, marry and/or divorce LO. 🥰
MJ,
“I hope you mean that in a good way.”
Yes
“Yeah her speech style makes her appear older.”
No, she looks older.
“She was older than me but ran things her way. I never minded. I found her kind of attractive.”
Wow. “Kind of attractive.” The words every woman longs to hear. 🙂
“I’ll be her pool boy, yard man, chauffeur, butler, slave, whatever, if it means a hookup. 😆 ”
Oh, my precious. Pool boys are by definition young and very muscly. But you knew that, didn’t you? 🙂
She doesn’t need another older man. She’s married to one.
“So directness let’s you know for sure if someone finds you attractive”
I don’t think most limerents want to know. It’s more fun trying to read the tea leaves. 🙂
If you ask, you’ll get an answer. Which can kill the limerence. Provided you actually listen to the answer. And take its message to heart. Even a vague or contradictory answer (LO says one thing but does another) is still an answer. And not a positive one, unfortunately.
An adept wing person/friend can maybe watch the limerent and LO together … but it’s still reading the tea leaves. Just asking someone else to do it. (I have been guilty of asking someone to do this and friends have asked me to do it.)
Marcia,
Disclosure does come with risk.
https://livingwithlimerence.com/if-i-only-knew/
But, as you pointed out, it can kill the limerence. Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn’t. https://livingwithlimerence.com/can-limerence-be-safely-harnessed/
My therapist’s favorite question was “What would you do with the knowledge if you had?” The woman could be a real buzzkill.
LE,
“But, as you pointed out, it can kill the limerence. Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn’t. ”
I think it can kill it. If the limerent listens to the answer. Anything less than pretty much, “Yes I feel the same way,” is a no. At least that’s how I’d read it.
I’m going to reference a song. One I know that you know, given when it was released. 🙂 “This Is It” by Kenny Loggins. “Are you gonna wait for a sign, your miracle? Stand up and fight.”
That’s how it feels when you disclose. It’s a big moment. How the LO responds tells the limerent a lot.
“My therapist’s favorite question was “What would you do with the knowledge if you had?””
Well, that’s just it. Even if the limerent gets the answer he/she wants, what’s the point of getting the information?
“The woman could be a real buzzkill.”
Ha! Yes. Mine’s a buzzkill, too. It’s their job. To pour ice-cold water on any and all hopes. 🙂
“One I know that you know, given when it was released. 🙂 “This Is It” by Kenny Loggins.”
Marcia
Talk about a yacht-rock exclusive. Holy Crap. Thank you for making me feel super old with this.. 😂
MJ,
“Thank you for making me feel super old with this.. 😂”
That you knew it was yacht rock gave your age away. I didn’t have to do anything. What are you listening to right now? Christopher Cross? 🙂
“This Is It” is such a song about limerence … the LO is FINALLY going to say something.
“The waiting is over, no, don’t you run
No way to hide
No time for wonderin’ why
It’s here, the moment is now, about to decide”
“That you knew it was yacht rock gave your age away. I didn’t have to do anything. What are you listening to right now? Christopher Cross? 🙂”
Marcia
How many times have I told you to stop telling all my secrets? 😆 So what if I’m jamming out to “Ride like the wind” Its better than “This is it” which is so cringey bad. Even if it is the perfect limerence song. I would never subject LOs playlist to such rubbish. That Woman has high standards. 😆
Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to get back to work and see if I can irritate LF while I jam out to some “Toto” 😆
Indifference and ambivalence, or in part perceived ambivalence to has like gas on a bonfire to the limerent. And LO was very good at it. It’s like enabling to an addict of any kind. If there’s no clear message one way or the other it just feeds the fire. I’m bad, but not THAT bad.
“It’s like enabling to an addict of any kind. If there’s no clear message one way or the other it just feeds the fire. ”
IMO, someone not being clear is a bad sign. If someone is interested and they want you to know, they’ll tell you. Or at least do something to open the door so that you can tell them.
Miss Marcia in a healthy relationship I totally agree with you. Limerence isn’t healthy.
“Miss Marcia in a healthy relationship I totally agree with you. Limerence isn’t healthy.”
I agree, although I still think, even in limerence, if they LO wants to clear up the mystery, they will.
But you’ve written a few times your LO led you on. I wasn’t at work with you every day to witness her behavior, but since she’s left the job, she’s done nothing to lead you on.
“But you’ve written a few times your LO led you on.”
Marcia
I think in the mind of the limerent, that’s what we would want to believe but deep we know better.
I don’t believe his LO led him on any more than mine did. She may have liked the attention to a degree, but wasn’t sure how to diffuse it. Or didn’t care to put effort into it. In my case, she just ignored me or walked in a different direction when she saw me coming her way..
In his case, I think she tried to stay neutral while still remaining kind. Knowing he had a Wife and family at home.
MJ,
“I don’t believe his LO led him on any more than mine did. She may have liked the attention to a degree, but wasn’t sure how to diffuse it. Or didn’t care to put effort into it. In my case, she just ignored me or walked in a different direction when she saw me coming her way..
In his case, I think she tried to stay neutral while still remaining kind. Knowing he had a Wife and family at home.”
I think you’re implying the LOs gave more thought to the situations than they probably did. Possibly both women enjoyed the attention. I can’t get inside their heads, but if I were to guess, in general, most LOs aren’t walking around feeling fraught about their limerents. And in Adam’s case, when his LO left the job, her relationships with almost all, if not all, of her co-workers more than likely ended. That’s usually what happens.
“So what if I’m jamming out to “Ride like the wind” ”
I love that song! You got some great backing vocals by Michael McDonald.
“Gonna ride like the wind before I get old. ”
We lost that battle, didn’t we? 🙁
“I would never subject LOs playlist to such rubbish. That Woman has high standards. 😆”
Um … how would you know? You never spoke to her. For all you know, she likes BAD BUNNY! HA HA. She’s a young woman, she probably does! 🙂
“Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to get back to work and see if I can irritate LF while I jam out to some “Toto” 😆”
Wow … what a way to underscore your age to a young woman. Play music her parents probably listened to. That’ll rev her engine up. (Sarcasm implied. :))
I think what made her feel comfortable about the attention I gave her was that she knew it was genuine. Not Ginuwine. Yeah sure there was the limerence. But I honestly had no desire to cross that line with her.
“I think you’re implying the LOs gave more thought to the situations than they probably did. Possibly both women enjoyed the attention.”
Marcia
Well my altered state of mind wanted to believe it but truthfully I think it comes down to what you, Lovisa and many others told me back then, is that I made her uncomfortable. But I was so infatuated and out of my mind over the idea of her, I never wanted to believe it. Although I couldn’t explain her continual staring at me or even her lock-on stares, she never stopped to chat with me, was ever probably actually, truly available and had little to no interest in ever doing anything with me at all. I tried always to read her body language and it scared the holy hell out of me. I couldn’t approach.
If, at any time there was a slight window I could’ve gotten in, I completely missed it.
“I love that song! You got some great backing vocals by Michael McDonald.
“Gonna ride like the wind before I get old. ”
We lost that battle, didn’t we? 🙁”
I forgot he did backup on “This is it” too. Like his voice just makes me feel like that was ages ago and I guess it was. Yes we’ve totally lost that battle my dear.. 😆
“Um … how would you know? You never spoke to her. For all you know, she likes BAD BUNNY! HA HA. She’s a young woman, she probably does! 🙂”
Anything I know about LO is mostly from her TikToks.
Which are mainly about her and/or her side hustle which is doing hair coloring, hair extensions and lashes. Or she’s posted about the great food she finds around the city and sometimes posts herself eating it. Which I find quite adorable and amusing. I mean she could probably post herself praying the rosary or picking leaves off trees or folding her laundry and I’d find it adorable just the same, but this is LO we’re talking about here. 🥰
As for her taste in music, she’s mainly into Latin American type music and occasionally some rap. She likes Karol G and was hoping to get tickets to go see Fuerza Regida. She also likes classic Latin American music too, so naturally some of my dedicated playlist to her features that. I know she was also at Lolla last year to see Sabrina. You know, cause I really kinda think they might be long lost Sisters. So I can only imagine how much fun they would be together.. 😍
“Wow … what a way to underscore your age to a young woman. Play music her parents probably listened to. That’ll rev her engine up. (Sarcasm implied. :))”
Yeah I was only kidding about that. I still try to be the cool older guy LF works with. The one that gives her Dad-vibes. No Toto for her, thats for sure.. 😆
Her and I have a common thing we do around each other now. Which is seeing how many times we can tell each other to “f— off” every night. Either that or we give each other the finger. I think it’s been her way of expunging some of her hatred towards my past honesty to her. But I also think its because she never wanted to hate me for it either. I’m being respectful to her now, per her request and I don’t orbit. (Or at least in the way I used to) I think its just nice we can be decent to each other again without things being awkward. I’ll still go and talk to her. She’s implied she was curious about what was up with me and NG but never fully admitted it. Somehow I could just tell. I feel like my attention to another Woman made her a little jealous, but wtf? I don’t know, I guess I just feel like I want her to like me a lot more still but I know she can’t and I won’t expect it. I like how we get along now. I’ve missed it. I’m glad she’s sorta back. But it’s still not the same.
MJ,
“If, at any time there was a slight window I could’ve gotten in, I completely missed it.”
I still think you want to think about why you didn’t approach. I think there’s more to it than this.
But, yes, there is a window. I’d say it’s more once you start talking to someone. If you approach and chat her up several times … there’s the window. Ask her out. Or she might think: What’s this guy doing?
“Anything I know about LO is mostly from her TikToks.”
I stopped reading after this first sentence. This tells me everything. 🙂
“Yeah I was only kidding about that. I still try to be the cool older guy LF works with. The one that gives her Dad-vibes.”
NO! Any man who gave me dad vibes would be an immediate “never going to happen.” Now and when I was younger. I don’t mean that you can’t be a father but that you reminded me in any way of mine or a parental figure.
“I feel like my attention to another Woman made her a little jealous, but wtf? ”
It would make me a little jealous if I were in her shoes, too. It would be more of a bruised ego.
“I’m glad she’s sorta back. But it’s still not the same.”
I was watching this video the other day. About what secure people do when they are breadcrumbed. They say to themselves: This person is wasting my time. And they walk. Not in any big, loud, way. Not announcing, “Here I am, walking away!” They just quietly disappear. And she did breadcrumb you. I don’t know how conscious it was, but she gave you just enough to hang on without really following through in any concrete way. If it were me, I would not be giving her any kind of attention that validated her. She made her choice; she can get that kind of attention from her boyfriend.
I’d be pleasant but not validating.
Ah, yes, the pupil width! How are you supposed to even see the pupil width without peering into your LO’s eyes all weirdly?
Another good way to tell if an LO is into you, is if they come after YOU!
Excellent article!
I was in a terrible state with my LO. All the signs showed that he was attracted to me and wanted to go on dates with me. I mean, asking me to come over and watch a movie with him at is house is pretty straightforward right. He was an ex lover of more than a decade ago after all. When we met again there was this intense glimmer moment. But I was in a relationship at the time that was in a crisis and we briefly broke up so as flattered as I felt by the glimmer situation I held back. We did meet up on a couple of occasions. But I was so anxious that pursuing this connection further would totally wreck my life. But contact remained so these were the perfect conditions for my first ever LE. I did not know what was going on. After three months I had enough of the uncertainty and decided to call him and tell him directly that I could not meet him or continue the contact because I didn’t know where I was heading, what to do, what to choose. I was so confused. It was either to follow my ‘desires’/ ‘freedom’ or get back with my SO and seriously work on things to fix our relationship. In my head it was either/or because I was stuck in a loop. So I directly but still hesitantly asked LO about his intentions of inviting me over and he immediately reacted that he had ‘no intentions at all.’ He just invited me over out of ‘warmth’ and because he thought I might feel like coming over. But ‘if I didn’t feel like it that’s no problem at all.’ Then he also needed to mention the ‘fact that in his experience, when couples get back together after a break they usually end up separating again because they are facing the same issues’. Now why would you say that to someone who is in a crisis she just expressed so vulnerably? So the uncertainty went on and on. Even though I had made the decision to get back with SO(after this phonecall it was obvious), the uncertainty about his true feelings kept me stuck for so long. We started, or continued acting as ‘friends’ after this. Flaky contact kept going on because neither of us could make the decision to go NC. It hurt me too much to let go and I guess he still was fishing for a chance to meet again or stay in touch. Now things with SO worked out pretty well and I wouldn’t want to trade him for anyone. But it is completely insane to me that this kind of thing can have such a lasting imprint. Fast forward 2 years later I feel better now. No contact for over a year, but he still pops up in my head as an ongoing pattern. Not the intense emotions thank god, put the patterns remain. Like today I imagined him having moved on and being with someone else and there is no way of knowing for me and I suddenly felt hurt. It’s just the locked potential that had nowhere to go or the lingering hope that he might have felt something for me after all. Crazy. What am I doing wrong???
I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong. You had to go NC.
And I’m not convinced that, even if your SO had not been in the picture, your LO could have shown up in your life in any meaningful way. That’s always the fantasy: that the barriers are keeping us from our LOs. Remove the barriers and we’d get the LOs. But in actuality, it’s often the LOs who are also a barrier.
You tried to be honest with him, and he deflected and confused you more. Everyone knows “come over and watch a movie” is code for a hook up. He couldn’t even admit it. And then he threw in some weird comment about things not working out if you got back together with your SO, which of course made you wonder if he didn’t want you to reunite with your SO.
If you want to be with someone who can show up, you made the right decision. I think your LO would have driven you crazy with all his ambiguity. Was it like this when you were together years ago?
I’m so embarassed. Of course it was a hook up thing and I knew it. In my mind at the time it was supposed to be just a temporary fling which involuntarily led to this whole limerence episode. I was so overwhelmed during that time that my need to feel chosen overruled my rational thinking. I never knew this sort of obsession was even possible, especially with him!
We dated a year prior to my relationship with SO. Here’s the weird thing: he told me at that time that he had feelings for me and it took me by surprise. I did not immediately reciprocate because it felt too rushed, we hardly even knew eachother. I told him I felt nothing! However we kept seeing eachother, I started to like him more but after some time he stopped reaching out, I got pissed and I blocked him. Silly story..I was young, it was just something that had long passed until he popped up in my life again and there you go.
Kat and Marcia,
„And then he threw in some weird comment about things not working out if you got back together with your SO, which of course made you wonder if he didn’t want you to reunite with your SO.“
I wonder if he could have not meant Kat and SO, but Kat and himself? Would that be a possibility?
No no, he meant specifically me and SO. In his opinion this chapter was definitely over and I should focus on myself now. He had been chasing me for months before this phonecall. He even asked if he could keep texting me to wich I mumbled okayyy…and then he continued to do so…
Kat,
“He had been chasing me for months before this phone call.”
Yes, but the moment had arrived … you kind of pressed him for what was happening between you. (I’m not saying that was a bad thing to do. Actually, it was probably good, gave you a least some semblance of clarity.) And he … completely backpedaled. Threw up the plausible deniability shield. Pretended the invitation was to come over for “warmth.” (I have to be honest: Hearing this kind of b.s. would have ticked me off.) And this is during a time when you weren’t with your SO, right? If ever there was a time for your LO to make a definitive move and make it clear he was serious, there was the time to do it.
I just wouldn’t frame it in your mind as picking your SO over your LO. But rather picking your SO and shutting the door on someone who was playing hot and cold and possibly would have continued to do so.
Hi Kat,
„Here’s the weird thing: he told me at that time that he had feelings for me and it took me by surprise. I did not immediately reciprocate because it felt too rushed, we hardly even knew eachother. I told him I felt nothing! However we kept seeing eachother, I started to like him more but after some time“etc
„I always thought his ambiguity was caused by my holding back but still reinforcing by keeping in touch.“
It seems to me that you both were dealing out ambiguity at certain times, so I wouldn’t necessarily vilify him for not being outright clear when you asked him about his intentions (without clearly stating your intentions, mind.) I think it’s quite understandable from his side, or as understandable as your own ambiguity.
Still, you seem to see it quite clearly:
„ he would have always remained to act that way because he had always been that way“
It might feel like a missed opportunity, but it wasn’t.
Most likely there would only have been a bit of back and forth between people who both wouldn’t fully commit? Because it’s not only him who wouldn’t openly declare love or intentions, you yourself were not sure about the whole thing, right?
It’s maybe only in hindsight that it turned into something good you missed?
Mila,
The first time was over a decade ago. Yes maybe I was ambiguous about my feelings back then but as a young woman there are many odd guys who want something from you so I think it’s only natural to hold back a little (we only knew eachother for a week or so when he ‘expressed his feelings’ to me) anyway it was when I started to open up to him a bit more that he completely withdrew. I always thought it was because he just came out of a relationship and was still recovering from that.
Well, second time around it was me who just came out of a relationship so mentally I was really not prepared for this. Plus, I didn’t mention but during that phonecall I actually was brutally honest with him and told him that I did have feelings for him but didn’t know what to do with the situation between me and my ex (SO). So then he tried to nudge me in a different direction..for he was clearly unhappy about me talking about getting back with my ex.
You are right, due to our circumstances we were both ambiguous both the times we met. But taking the vilifying route kinda helped me because if I try to be too understanding of him, which I tend to do quite a lot, I’m afraid I will love and ache for him for ever and ever.
Hi Kat,
„ But taking the vilifying route kinda helped me because if I try to be too understanding of him, which I tend to do quite a lot, I’m afraid I will love and ache for him for ever and ever.“
I can absolutely understand that point. I experienced myself that there are different spins one can put on LO‘s personality and behavior (forgive me if my English is bad, not a native speaker), and that one can never really know which is the „right“ one (if there is a right one at all), so it‘s best to choose the spin that helps yourself most. Also, understanding doesn’t mean accepting.
While I said that him being ambiguous is understandable, it‘s still not very courageous, honest or attractive behavior.
Me with my XLO, I went down the path to say , I understand certain behaviors, I see that he can’t help them or where they stem from, but while I understand, I simultaneously say that that‘s still nothing I want to put up with myself.
It‘s understandable he behaves like that but that still makes him a person I better keep at a distance, because it‘s not good for me to be too involved with this kind of person or behavior, and I have to take care of myself first.
Your LO doesn’t sound like someone who would sweep you from your feet and unconditionally be there for you, stand by you etc., and isn’t that something we limerents hope for, some real love of this LO coming our way? Is he even capable of being the loving person you would like him to be?
If you would suddenly decide to be with him, he would go on dithering and you would have a hell of a time, that’s my guess.
So maybe better put Marcia’s merciless spin on his personality and decide that this episode must be over? ( I know, easier said than done..)
Marcia,
I always thought his ambiguity was caused by my holding back but still reinforcing by keeping in touch. His reaction to my phonecall was indeed pretty lame but I was so nervous and felt so vulnerable back then that it just confused me more. I knew he wasn’t completely honest. Instead of putting me off it just reinforced this uncertainty and me trying to figure out his real feelings after all.
But thanks for pointing that out though. Even if things didnt work out between me and SO he would have always remained to act that way because he had always been that way.
So this video came up in my YouTube feed last night. I’d seen it before but it’s been a number of months and I’d forgotten about the … um … wallop of its title. “If They Wanted to Be With You, You’d Know — The Trap of Limerence” (by You Reclaimed Project).
I think that pretty much sums it up. (I wish I had known some of this stuff years ago. Would have saved myself so much time and energy. :)) The other dating/relationship motto I live by is: Someone who is really interested won’t put themselves in a position to lose you. And ambiguous behavior and/or mixed signals fit into this because he runs the risk of you getting frustrated and walking away.