Another video this week, all about the habits that makes some people especially addictive.
You can also test out the new and improved online assessment to find out How addictive is my limerent object?
Have you ever been so lovestruck by someone that it almost felt like they’d cast a spell over you?
Did you wonder what it was about them that was so… intoxicating?
Well, in this video I’ll show you why some people can be so bewitching, why you might be vulnerable, and how to resist their charms.
If you want to.
Right then. How can someone else make you fall in love with them?
Well, obviously, I don’t mean that some people actually have magical love powers.
But many of us have had the experience of falling really properly head over heels for someone else—so much so that it feels like love madness.
That other person is so romantically potent that we develop limerence for them, a state of infatuation so profound that it dominates all other concerns in life.
Intrusive thoughts, desperate desire, euphoria, anxiety, overarousal, yearning and a romantic pull so powerful that it almost feels supernatural.
A high so high that it can become addictive.
They become a limerent object—the embodiment of desire that we crave with irrational intensity.
For about half of the population of the world, this is what the early stages of love can sometimes feel like: complete psychological capture.
That’s limerence.
So, what is it about another person that can trigger such a disruptive transformation?
1. What triggers limerence?
So, I’ve been talking about “this other person” being a limerent “object” in a rather dehumanising way.
But that’s deliberate.
Limerence happens in our heads, and it’s all about our own romantic hopes and dreams and emotional vulnerabilities.
We’re not really seeing them as a fully rounded person.
It’s that something about them matches our subconscious blueprint of an ideal mate, which has developed over the course of our lives. So when we meet someone who matches our limerence avatar, we rapidly get a “glimmer” of romantic excitement.
This bypasses our rational mind and gets us right in the feels.
They seem charged with romantic power. Bewitching.
Now, what it is about this other person that our subconscious picks up on is a highly personal thing. We all have our own unique glimmer triggers.
But, having heard thousands of limerent’s stories over the last decade, here are some of the most common triggers:
- Eye contact. Massively seductive. Easy to misread. One of the commonest causes of limerents suddenly re-categorising someone into a romantic possibility rather than everyday acquaintance.
- Romantic interest. Linked into the eye contact trigger, lots of limerents report that them suddenly believing that the other person might be attracted to *them* was the catalyst for their own glimmery response.
- Physical traits. Some people really do have a thing for redheads or tall people or cute smiles or aquiline noses. So this is probably linked into some formative experience in their past, but sometimes people really do have a physical “type”
- Personality traits. Obviously, a very broad category, but snarky humour, unflappable calm, emotional openness, bookish introversion or any of the other varied ways that people behave can similarly set the “type” of person that triggers limerence for you
- Archetypes. I’ve done a whole video on this before but it can often be that the limerent object represents a particular, familiar type of person rather than how they individually look or behave. So these are the damsels in distress, men of mystery, forbidden fruit, or authority figures that excite us at a deep level.
So, that’s quite a wide range of people.
Clearly there must be more to limerence that just meeting someone who triggers the glimmer for you. Lots of people are likely to match our limerence blueprint, but they don’t all bewitch us.
So what else is going on?
2. The two key factors
Assuming we feel the glimmer for someone, whether or not we progress into the full-blown infatuation of limerence depends on two other major factors: hope and uncertainty.
We generally have to have some sense of possibility that we might have a chance with them—or that they at least feel warmly towards us.
Now, this is an area where there is a lot a variation between limerents. Some can find hope in a fleeting moment of eye contact. Others need a sustained period of flirting and fairly obvious hints from the limerent object before they begin to believe there might be something there.
Hope can be a bit delusional, but if the other person is hostile, obviously disinterested, or in some other way makes it totally clear they are not attracted, then limerence does tend to fizzle out.
The second factor, though, is where limerence gets amplified.
Having some hope for romantic reciprocation, but not being able to find out for sure, is the perfect way to fan the glimmer of limerent possibility into the life-ravaging wildfire of limerent obsession.
Classic causes of uncertainty are mixed messages from the limerent object, social barriers to the free expression of feelings (such as one or both of you being married or having a position of authority over the other), situationships, developing limerence for a friend, insecurity on the part of the limerent, or simple practical barriers to being together (like travelling a lot or often having to change plans at short notice).
Now already, it should be becoming clear that some people will be much more prone to triggering limerence than others.
Smiley, flirty people with chaotic lives are going to generate way more hope and uncertainty than jaded, bluntly honest loners.
There are some behaviours that will reliably generate hope and uncertainty—even if that is not the intent of the person doing it.
Commonly, the most triggering behaviours can be both signs of friendliness and signs of attraction and they kind of have hope and uncertainty bundled in together.
Some examples are:
- Erratic communication. So texting frequently one day, then nothing for days afterwards. Or being super enthusiastic about meeting up, and then cancelling at short notice. Any channel of communication can cause this sort of confusion if the limerent object’s use of it is unpredictable and inconsistent.
- Gregariousness. Some people are naturally friendly, open, and fun to be with. Unfortunately, that can be misread as romantic interest. Or, it might actually be romantic interest.
- Flirting. Now this is obviously a romantically charged behaviour, but many people also just flirt as a form of social bonding or banter. It’s often hard to know how serious someone’s flirting is.
- Physical affection. Some people are huggy, they touch others to show affection or trust, but they’ve got no intent beyond building rapport. For other people touching is an unconscious sign of attraction.
- Seeking emotional support. They need you. They lean on you. But, are you building an attachment, or providing a service?
- Cryptic messages. This final case comes up surprisingly often. The limerent object says something apparently meaningful, but also seems to be inhibited about being direct. “It feels like I’ve known you forever”, or “you should be careful around me” or “My heart is really vulnerable at the moment.” Something that seems intimate, but not exactly encouraging.
The difficult thing, of course, is figuring out what all these behaviours add up to, and that’s why people who display them end up becoming an object of fascination and obsession.
3. Is it deliberate?
So, the framing of this video is about someone “making” you fall in love with them, as though it is a deliberate act.
Sometimes it is.
All the behaviours that I’ve covered can be used cynically to manipulate someone into infatuation.
A really clear example of this comes from the writer Elizabeth Gilbert in her essay “confessions of a seduction addict”:
Seduction is the art of coercing somebody to desire you, of orchestrating somebody else’s longings to suit your own hungry agenda. Seduction was never a casual sport for me; it was more like a heist, adrenalizing and urgent. I would plan the heist for months, scouting out the target, looking for unguarded entries. Then I would break into his deepest vault, steal all his emotional currency and spend it on myself.
Elizabeth Gilbert
Thankfully, that sort of predatory behaviour is rare.
More common is a less deliberate seduction. So, the other person isn’t intentionally staging a heist, they’re just behaving in a way that broadcasts hope and uncertainty unintentionally.
Or… perhaps less charitably, they have some sense of their ability to generate desire in other people and they’re unconsciously testing their powers, and they also quite like the flattering feeling of knowing they could take things forward if they wanted to.
Regardless of their motives, some people can be addictive in this way.
So, what can you do to avoid becoming an addict?
4. How to not fall under their spell
If you are in the situation of feeling bewitched by another person and you’re wondering how they did it, I’ve put together an online assessment tool to help you find out. So you can score how addictive is your limerent object?
It’s free, takes about 5 min to complete, and you’ll get a full breakdown emailed to you at the end, with all the sources of hope and uncertainty in your situation, and your own personal vulnerabilities.
So that’s a good way to figure out what kind of limerent object you’re dealing with.
And, broadly there are four main categories:
Fantasy, Neutral, Friendly, and Enabling limerent objects.
Fantasy limerent objects are people that you don’t have a real connection to—so, celebrities, or people you’ve seen but not approached, or even people who have rejected you but you can’t let go of hope.
Neutral limerent objects are people who you do interact with, but only fairly superficially. People like the barista in your favourite coffeeshop, or the receptionist at your gym, or a teacher at your child’s school. People you know a bit, but who you don’t have a meaningful relationship with.
Now for both fantasy and neutral limerent objects, getting over them is basically a personal battle. The limerence is being generated in your own head. You’ve done the work of creating the hope and uncertainty they are essentially a bystander, albeit maybe one who made eye contact with you once and triggered a whole cascade of emotional consequences.
Now the good news is that these are easy limerent objects to avoid. The bad news is that you’ll need to do a fair amount of personal reflection to understand what it was about them that triggered an emotional crisis in you and led into obsession.
For the last two categories of limerent object, resisting and recovering is harder.
Friendly limerent objects are people you’ve actually got to know and bonded with. They like you, show signs they are happy to see you, maybe even signs of affection, and you want to keep a relationship with them.
The final category, Enabling limerent objects, will feed the addiction. These are people who behave in ways that naturally cultivate romantic hope in others, but is also ambiguous, deniable, not open and honest. So they are—consciously or unconsciously—complicit in the addiction, like the drinking buddy of an alcoholic.
Perhaps the hardest problem for most limerents who feel trapped, is distinguishing whether their limerent object is friendly or enabling.
Now, there is a surefire way to do it, but most limerents generally don’t want to.
That surefire way is to be decisive.
If you are free to be with your limerent object then you can eliminate the uncertainty from the situation by being honest with them about your true feelings.
That way, you might get your heart’s desire if they feel the same way, or you might discover that they are a friendly limerent object who didn’t mean to cultivate limerence in you.
So a friend will likely be sympathetic, but clear about their lack of interest. They may try to let you down gently, or say they still want to be friends, but they won’t string you along.
In contrast, an enabling limerent object is much more likely to get cross (because you’ve spoiled their fun), give a non-committal or confusing response, and then try to get your relationship back to its old dynamic as soon as they can.
Because you being their infatuated friend suited them.
OK, but what if you aren’t free to be with your limerent object—say because you or they are married? Well, that calls for a different kind of decisiveness.
It doesn’t really matter if they are friendly or enabling. It doesn’t matter how they feel.
You need to break the addiction either way.
I took the quiz, and my LO fit the “friendly” profile, no surprise there.
Looking at my quiz results, I should think I would be doing better than I actually am.
I struggle with the concept of uncertainty. There is no possibility of a romance–I have known that from day one–but I guess I remain hooked in the hope of having some kind of emotional connection that I thought we had, fleetingly (?) and that I want to recapture.
Although I am pretty sure that was an illusion to begin with. LO is friendly, yes, but our recent conversations have not been great, due to him being under a great deal of pressure. We had a conversation yesterday that was exhausting to me, just listening to the level of rage he feels, and not being able to do anything to help him.
He is the angriest person I know, and it’s actually overwhelming.
His anger is justified, but being unable to help, it’s too much for me.
What gets me going?
It can’t just be physical type. I’ve been limerent for tall and obese, average and slightly overweight, tall and skinny, average height but athletic, average and skinny, light hair, dark hair, all different kinds of “types.”
But the thing that keeps getting me is the eyes. Cat eyes, deep-set eyes, bright blue eyes, onyx eyes. And some kind of indication that they feel something for me. If they are flirtatious, I flirt right back. But rarely do I get a lasting crush for someone I don’t know.
I did that. I lured a coworker by leaving snacks at her workstation and cleaning her car windshield and mirrors after work, creating a mystery. But little did I know that those actions would spark limerence in that coworker. And it was the eyes that drew me in. But it is possible to break the spell if both are willing. We were both unavailable. It’s been 2 years no contact. Every day it gets easier, realizing how close we were to destroying our real lives.
Based on DrL’s limerence chart, a mutual LE can be broken only through “Ecstatic Union” — emotional or/and physical. Based my experience and observation in LwL, it needs both to completely break the spell.
Your LE spell broke merely by a mutual “willing” is amazing, lucky for you! Do you know if the spell also broke for your LO?
Should DrL add another line, skipping (going around) the box “Ecstatic Union” in his Limerence Chart? 🤔
https://livingwithlimerence.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Flowchart.png
Nonetheless, it’s marvelous to break LE spell (through whatever means), especially when it has driven limerents into its addiction stage. 🙁
The mission is accomplished, great.
Living under the spell is dreamy, unrealistic and unworkable even if both sides are available or/and willing.
My LO’s profile is “friendly” which makes sense since the glimmer came when he was able to sense my frustration on a virtual meeting. I’m usually straight faced and keep my composure but somehow he noticed my frustration. My SO never seems to care about my mood/feelings etc. So I think that’s how it started. That glimmer happened several months after he became my supervisor, so it wasn’t instant after meeting him. I’m not sure if he caught on as one day during our in person meeting, we locked eyes (or so that’s what I thought) and I had to look down quickly since the butterflies kicked in. Then the next day he puts his hand lightly on my shoulder when I was sitting at my desk while talking business. Mind you, he NEVER did anything like that before. He’s always been very professional with me. Then the week after, during our meeting he was staring at me smiling while I was looking for something on my computer. So no clue if that’s considered reciprocation as that was over a month ago and it’s been quiet since that. I’m married (maybe not happily), he’s married but is inconsistent in wearing his ring. There’s too many barriers and this LE has been torture on my emotions. Lately, he’s been talking about his daughter and wife (sounds like he’s happy) so that’s been hard on me but probably a necessary step for me to move on from this. I probably would have been over this earlier if it wasn’t for the eye contact and shoulder touch giving me false hope. I was working hard towards LC. Although, I can’t blame LO. This is on me.
Dr. L’s description is accurate and comprehensive as usual. I did not take the assessment as I took it last time and I don’t think that the results will change. Last time I was surprised to learn that my LO was merely friendly and I realize now that I was the one enabling my addiction with hope. I recognize my own tendencies in the comments of some of the others:
“Hooked in the hope of having some kind of emotional connection”
“Eyes… and some kind of indication that they feel something for me.”
“Eye contact….giving me false hope.”
I can see now (four years later) how I created the fantasy out of the glimmer, friendly gestures and sustained eye contact. But in spite of this recognition (and three years since last contact) I am struggling with the dissonance between what I know and understand and what I still believe, at least sometimes and in some part of my brain. I know that a relationship with LO (married as am I) was wrong and impossible for many reasons. Yet why I am I still thinking about him nearly daily? This is what I would like to understand better. What causes long-term limerence (i.e. longer than the average which I understand to be 18 months to three years)? And why are some people more susceptible to it? And why are some people limerent only once in their lives? I do not believe that I had ever experienced limerence prior to meeting my LO. I understand that mid-life presents some circumstances that make one ripe for an LE but I was a bit past that (late 50’s) when it struck me and I have never had any experience previously that so totally overwhelmed me and for such a sustained period of time. Although my marriage is not perfect, and perhaps that contributed to my susceptibility, I love my husband very much and never really had considered life with another. Our relationship has actually strengthened since the LE and I feel closer to him than ever. For this reason I feel all the worse that I am still thinking about the LO so often.
Hi IL. If you don’t mind me asking. 3 years no contact? How long did it last before NC? How did it end? If it was a friendly ending, that tends to prolong the limerence. If it ended in a conflict, it is more likely to be a quicker recovery. How did you meet? What was your last conversation? Did you or LO leave the door open? Most people can tell if someone is crushing on them? Do you think he knew? You are a married woman who came to her senses in time to save your marraige. Use that as your tool to get over this. It’s normal to be tempted, but you overcame that temptation, you are stronger than you think. I still think about my LO quite regularly. Its been 2 years NC now. But I know I can’t reach out because I will have to start over again. Remember it’s an addiction so you will always have that craving or memory etched in your life. You can do this, 3 years of NC is a major milestone in recovery. My LO was also limerent towards me, so we had to call it off in unison, it was very hard to do. Just be glad yours was not mutual.
Thank you Frank for your perspective. My ending was friendly and I suppose that has tended to prolong the limerence. I don’t feel that comfortable discussing the specifics but I appreciate your supportive words. And I think that your observation about limerence being an addiction is a logical explanation for its persistence. Perhaps it will never go away. Addicts routinely celebrate milestone sober birthdays for decades. It feels dramatic to think that this is similar and yet I suppose it is. And you are right to remind me that I am lucky that my marriage has survived and that my limerence was not mutual. I need to keep a crib note somewhere to that effect that I can pull out when I am feeling self-pity.
My LE ended without conflict. If it would have ended in a fight or argument I think I would have gotten over it much sooner. How did I know it was mutual? We were both unavailable, she forced a coworker to get my number, she texted first, she made a joke out of my college mascot by checking out my license plate frame on my car, she told me that she was listening to a lot of Fleetwood mac lately, and she showed up at a union meeting because she heard that I was talking to another woman. She invited me to 2 after work get-togethers. Could it be possible that I misread her intentions? Maybe she was just a flirt? All I did was leave snacks at her workstation, and clean the windshield on her car. And respond to her texts. And i fell in love(limerence).
Frank,
“Could it be possible that I misread her intentions? Maybe she was just a flirt? ”
It sounds like she was interested. I can’t tell you whether she was limerent or not. There’s a huge range of possibility between interested and limerent.
“My LE ended without conflict. If it would have ended in a fight or argument I think I would have gotten over it much sooner.”
Mine ended in conflict and the conflict didn’t make it end sooner. I feel better now that some time has passed, and I’m not checking my phone anymore in hopes he’s reached out.
I think the worst feeling is the utter futility of it. If one or both of you is unavailable. It doesn’t matter what you do. Literally … do anything. It doesn’t matter. Reach out, don’t reach. Show up where they are, don’t show up. Whatever you do … the whole thing is doomed. Because the situation is what it is, and it’s not changing.
Frank,
“My LE ended without conflict. If it would have ended in a fight or argument I think I would have gotten over it much sooner. How did I know it was mutual? “
From your posts in this room and another one last month, I couldn’t get a clear idea how this LE was mutually ended. In any type of relationship, even just a friendship, it takes just one-side’s unwillingness to end, but necessarily two-sides’ wish and determination to continue. Perhaps your LO sensed that you wanted to end it so badly (your sky was already cloudy), so she just complied/followed along? Both of you were unavailable, so what’s the point to argue or fight if one side wants to call it off?
From my memory, your LO wanted a better friendship outside of work (invited you to a work-related party after 9 month NC), but you had some uncrossable boundary about attending, so she slowed down and then eventually stopped texting. But this act does not necessarily prove that the “LE spell” was broken for her, too, unless she told you specifically.
“We were both unavailable,… Could it be possible that I misread her intentions? Maybe she was just a flirt?“
As other posters point out that between likes (acquaintances), affection (friendship), crush (Eros, small or delayed), real love(a combination of 3~4 loves + Eros), and LE addiction (Eros ONLY in degree L11+) — the scale, there is a big range /a lot possibilities of relations; where was your LE at? With your LO’s above behaviors, where did/do you assess her LE level was at?
To be labeled as LE 7~10 or LE 11+, a lot of mental/neural symptoms have to take place in limerent’s head and body, which no outsiders can know for sure, but only guess based on their behaviors. In some cases, LO/limerent themselves are even not quite clear, particularly why and how?
You say that her eyes and your sweet/caring behaviors skyrocketed your love/LE (addiction yet?), what do you reckon that inspired her love/LE, in what possible degree? Your eyes, physical appearance, personality, talents, empathy, social skills, …? She commented that you two got along very well at work.
“All I did was leave snacks at her workstation, and clean the windshield on her car. And respond to her texts. And i fell in love(limerence).”
Based on the data you provided without seeing your eyes and appearance, I think your LO really liked your personality and truly appreciated your various loving & caring deeds (what emotions on the above scale could they inspire?). You also disclosed your admiration to her, which I’m sure she highly appreciated and enjoyed . To my “blind” eyes I think she wished/wanted to maintain a true friendship, since you both were unavailable for a romance. Aren’t most limerents here wish so?
Then, her texts and your responses (despite their general chitchat nature) could have built some attachment/connection for this vague, invisible tie between you two. In LE dynamic, contents of chats/talks matter much less than texts’ mere appearance on the screen — silly cartoons, social gossips, scenery or travel photos, whatever.
Often active limerents can vividly imagine a lot of stuff from LO’s words or images, which then feed dopamine/drug/fuel to Limerents’ themselves. In a mutual LE (one-side LE as well), both the sender and receiver feed each other as LE Drug. LO is just a catalyst, not a rounded human being. They can’t have a “normal” romantic relationship.
Now, you know your motivation for your actions/behaviors in your LE, but wonder(ed) about hers. If you’ve benefited from the experiences, and the spell is already broken, then what’s the point to dwell on the past, unless she tries to contact and reengage you again?
L.E.’s cautionary foresight is valid: should the situation change — she, you, or both become available and she reaches out to you again, how are you going to deal with it? Would she still be the “right person” after LE was already gone? In theory, would you date her to see if a relationship could work out? After the LE spell is gone, could you see her as a person more clearly?
I understand your need/desire to answer some of the past puzzlements. However, as a practicing Stoic, I’d recommend, with the LE spell broken, focus on one’s own purposeful living/activities, whatever you’re engaged in or wish to pursue. The past is already beyond our control, nothing we could do to change anything; only adjust/master our reactionary attitudes toward everything in the past (as lessons for the future).
Sorry if I remember incorrectly your story details, or unintentionally offended you, or preach here. I hope you have more steady peace as time goes on…
Hi TF. No offense taken. We met at work. We were definitely feeding each other the “LE” drug. It ended with her responding to my” it’s getting cloudy” with “no clouds in my sky” which some interpret that to be “you can keep going” and others (myself included) interpret as “I’m okay if you need to go”. Did I misread her actions (getting my number from someone I specifically told not to give out, checking out my car license plate frame to make a joke about my college mascot,telling me that she was listening to a lot of Fleetwood mac lately, showing up to a union meeting she never attended before to check on another woman there that I was talking to the month before, texting me after 9 months NC)? Maybe she did want to be just friends? I knew I was limerent towards her because my wife wanted to go to that last party and that woke me up. How could i explain to my wife that i gave LO all my uniforms and equipment when I retired? And the gifts I sent to LO after I left? That was my wakeup alarm. If she did want to be just friends I ruined that possible relationship. But my wife would never allow me to be friends with a woman 20 years my junior. Your right about the moving on thing. You are totally right about moving on and focusing on the here and now and not on the past. Even if it wasn’t mutual what is the point of dwelling on whether or not it was? And if she ever did contact me again it would be full disclosure time, and a final goodbye. But I don’t think she will, it’s been 2 years now. And I had peace until my best friend passed. Now this comes back to supposedly “comfort me'” in my time of grief. Therapist said my mind went back to the last dopamine fix to bring comfort. So here I am posting the most secret thing in my life so someone else can find some hope and understanding in dealing with this addiction. Thank you for the well wishes. The peace will come back in time.
Hi Frank,
“ We met at work. We were definitely feeding each other the “LE” drug. “
You mean those caring and nudging acts to/with each other? You know your inside well, but how do you know that you were feeding her the “LE” drug? Did you see some LE symptoms on her (besides gifting you Fleetwood Mac)? Did your LO possibly have knowledge of limerence?
“It ended with her responding to my” it’s getting cloudy” with “no clouds in my sky” which some interpret that to be “you can keep going” and others (myself included) interpret as “I’m okay if you need to go”.
I’m not a naive English speaker, so her response sounds to me as: “I know what I’m doing without any doubt or regardless what you do or not do.” If she truly liked/loved you and your LE deeds, then she might mean “You can keep going”. The interpretation of “I’m okay if you need to go” sounds somewhat pessimistic or nervous (fearful?). I was puzzled the first time you mentioned — were you already ready to leave/“run away”?
“Did I misread her actions? “
I’m from an action/solution based culture starved emotional, verbal expressions: we’d blush if we had to say directly to someone, “I like you”; instead we’d show our likes in some tiny deeds (like what a blogger here, Adam, did to his xLO). So your LO’s behavior as you described, especially texting after 9 months NC, meant a lot to my personal ears. I’d say that she had genuine affection for you and wished more, ie. a close friend (despite your wife’s existence), which could dangerously tip you back into your LE again.
“Maybe she did want to be just friends? “
If you are both unavailable, isn’t it futile to realistically desire more (perhaps an emotional affair) ? It sounds like she wanted a close friendship out of your shared, undisclosed “LE” at work; but you said you never dealt with coworkers outside work or had some uncrossable boundary.
“I knew I was limerent towards her because my wife wanted to go to that last party and that woke me up. How could i explain to my wife that i gave LO all my uniforms and equipment when I retired? And the gifts I sent to LO after I left? That was my wakeup alarm.”
Just going to a retirement party with some ex-coworkers around, how could your wife learn about what you had given your LO? When you say” it was my wakeup alarm”, does it mean you didn’t know by the 3rd invite that you were in LE and getting/feeding the Drug from/to your LO? Didn’t you have some LE symptoms before you retired?
“If she did want to be just friends I ruined that possible relationship.”
You said before that you did not know who she was outside your work, by your choice, but perhaps she wanted to know who you were besides your professional identity. However, if you couldn’t cross the boundary of meeting her in the reality, then such a relationship was not possible.
“But my wife would never allow me to be friends with a woman 20 years my junior.”
Is your wife a jealous type or social confirming? Does she micro~monitor your daily/hourly behaviors? Do you have some alone time with your male friends or pursue your own hobbies? Why did you marry her twice? No one else was/is more fitting to be your wife? But then, you still fell in LE addiction for your coworker LO? Was your LO appear a goddess/angel in your eyes? (Like another blogger, MJ’s LO)
“You’re right about the moving on thing. You are totally right about moving on and focusing on the here and now and not on the past. “
We all regret mistakes made, or chances missed in the past or even wish to go back to right “wrongs”, but we don’t have a Tardis. In my COO, we learned to use every bit of past experiences either as gifts or lessons, thus making most pieces of the past beneficial to our current or future needs — wise Selfishness.
“Even if it wasn’t mutual what is the point of dwelling on whether or not it was?”
Only you can ask yourself: how knowing this piece of information could bring me more joys/peace and enhance/enrich my current life with SO? Or could you perhaps look at the past unknowns from another angle: It was their mysterious quality that perked up my curiosity/energy, inspired my creative or loving activities, and made my otherwise quiet life more colorful and vibrant — even just for a limited time?
After all, your LO did not reject you anything, friendship, love or LE — you were unavailable and didn’t disclose. it was you who kept running away (retiring earlier) and staying away (turning down the invite) for reasons. Did you ever explain to her your choice of not to know her outside the work? How did she take it?
“And if she ever did contact me again it would be full disclosure time, and a final goodbye. But I don’t think she will, it’s been 2 years now. “
Then don’t worry about it now but leave the mind open for all possibilities and your future solutions — a Stoic mindset. Your future mindset is not gong to be same as now, so I’d let go off any pre-decision and enjoy whatever you have in your reality now.
“And I had peace until my best friend passed. Now this comes back to supposedly “comfort me’” in my time of grief. Therapist said my mind went back to the last dopamine fix to bring comfort. “
Totally understandable! Don’t feel bad/guilty about your old-dopamine seeking, the grief of a big loss/death could lead one to an existential crisis, let alone a dopamine craving. The grief of my father’s sudden passing led me to my last LE and most likely to my lymphoma development. I could have been died 6 years ago, if I wasn’t recommended to the guru surgeon in the field.
“So here I am posting the most secret thing in my life so someone else can find some hope and understanding in dealing with this addiction. Thank you for the well wishes. The peace will come back in time.”
Are you admitting that your LE had reached the addiction level? Is this recent relapse more or less than its original onset in intensity?
Repressing unspeakable stuff inside one’s chest often leads to depression, despair, and utter loneliness, which then adds possibly irreversible damages to one’s physical health! DrL set up this website for those suffering limerents in need of open-expressing, self-exploring and self-healing, so feel free to share with us whatever you feel comfortable to tell.
From my experiences, 🍑 joy only comes to one after genuine peace 🕊️ — do what one loves to do/give and let go off any possible outcome, which can only be gradually cultivated from one’s inside, by one’s own internal god, 👣 by 👣 here and now.
“3. Is it deliberate?”
Well check out this strange LO encounter I had at work this morning.
I was doing my cleanup at the tail end of my shift when LO’s Zone supervisor came to me and told me that LO wanted me to stick around a little longer for the purpose of training me on a new machine we just got. My first reaction was “I need to get home”. But this Zone supervisor practically implored me to talk to LO about the training before I left, after which I replied “Well, I guess I don’t have any appointments this morning. I’ll stick around a little longer.” I had already been running the machine all night but had noticed a very minute misalignment between two moving parts.
When I met up with LO, she seemed mildly perturbed that I was there and scolded me to take care to be sure that nothing on the machine was carelessly installed, after I mentioned that parts were interfering with each other. She did actually find a misalignment and made a very small adjustment, which solved the problem.
When it seemed that we had covered all of the pertinent details and I had all of my questions answered, she said “Yeah, I was told that you specifically asked to have ME go over some additional training items with you.” I then replied “What?! I did not! Your Zone supervisor came and found me and told me that YOU requested that I stay later so you could spend some time training me on the new machine. Wow! Sorry about that.” She looked a little bit embarrassed and said again, “I was asked if I would be willing to show you how to use the new machine, of which I said ‘Of course.’” I added “That’s weird. Someone is putting words in my mouth. I think it might be someone on your crew” (Of course, I also later realized that someone had obviously been putting words in her mouth, too)
So, what are your thoughts on this?
Digging that user name. Not my favorite Tenchi series but still damn good. Welcome fellow fan.
Your LO sounds like me with my LO. I was always making excuses to be around her and help her. I think my boss tolerated it because he knew I was actually doing work with her without letting my own tasks slip.
To me it sounds like she wanted you to be there but didn’t think the supervisor would specifically tell you she requested you but just say “go do this.” And when your LO found out you knew they requested you specifically they got flustered about it.
I love the Tenchi series! SO got me into that. 🙂
I didnt know Kiyone was my waifu before I even knew what a waifu was. I guess it’s the sympathy for working with Mihoshi. I’ve worked with far too many Mihoshi’s in my life myself 😁
Speaking of … off to work I go. See ya’ll in the am.
My sympathies for working with so many Mihoshi’s! 😉 Sweet but oh so destructive….
Sounds to me like you have meddling coworkers in your business. Well actually since it is at work, they think it is their business to be in your business. Lol. But seriously, are you available? Is she available? It has always been my policy to never date a coworker. I have seen nearly all office romances self destruct, even after the two exchanged vows in marraige. But I have seen it work too, but only if they are in different departments where they didn’t have to interact. Does anyone else at work notice your interactions? Probably. If one or both are unavailable, there are those that would like to see you in misery from the lives that you have ruined. But there are those that like to play matchmaker if you both are available. Be careful who your work friends and enemies are. Sometimes the line between the two is blurry.
It finally occurred to me to read this article more carefully. I almost forgot that I am still a totally and hopelessly cursed life-long limerent; always have been, always will be.
It sounds rather a dark view towards being a limerent; do you think you were born/neural-wired this way? Do you think, in theory, if you (plural) get a reciprocal/mutual LE, you’d still be a “hopeless, cursed” limerent?
Do you think there is differences between active and dormant limerents? When you were not in active limerence with anyone, did you still consider you were a limerent? This question has been in my own mind, I’d love to know if one/I could become a rational-limerent after recovering from a big LE (situational) and learning from LwL.
Nowadays post-LE, I can’t help analyze my mind all the time when it’s attracted/glimmered, unattached/distracted by people and matters… I found logical analysis, even with no results, could help dampen down or dissipate all sorts of emotions, especially unwanted/unavailable glimmer.
Despite our collective wishes, human mind is just not rational as much as we wish. When I found reasons behind my emotions/perceptions, I feel more peaceful/settled; when no/opposite causes, I become intrigued/“superstitious”. I like both states of the mind, giving my mostly quiet life colors.
A lot of people on this site prefer to be a limerent than a LO, they claim the former feels with more colors, variety, and intensity. I hope you’re at peace with your self-identity.
“always will be” is questionable; everyone changes/evolves as time goes on. 😊
“Do you think, in theory, if you (plural) get a reciprocal/mutual LE, you’d still be a “hopeless, cursed” limerent?”
The short answer is YES, because I have been let down so many times; however, I am currently monitoring a developing situation that seems so farfetched to me that I have been withholding a lot of details and possible explanations. I will keep you posted if anything notable happens.
Yes. Take time and use logic to assess/discern any far-fetched situation in life. When/if mind and heart are cross with each other, then observe very First & Last thought/semi-consciousness everyday for at least one month, as my therapist-friend (not my own therapist) once told me, and it worked…
Good luck to your situation. 🍀
(Btw, Tenchi is a very lovable character, but his lady-friends are insufferably noisy and chatty… 🙂 )
Honest question. Is it possible to transfer limerence to a previous LO?
I’m worn out with this current LO, as there are too many emotional lows and NC is impossible due to him being my supervisor.
My previous LE was back in 2010. I worked in the same office as him but not really directly with him.
I need the LE “fantasies” to keep me content in my marriage/for emotional safety. Previous LO did that for me without the horrible lows. He moved away and the LE naturally faded.
There’s really no way out of my marriage as he’s threatened to take half and do worse if he has nothing to lose. So I stay in a loveless, sexless marriage and put up with the verbal abuse.
Thinking that I’ve made my current LO the version of the husband I wish I had. LO looks similar to my husband in a way. Maybe that’s why there’s such an emotional rollercoaster with this one. I’m exhausted and constantly crying.
I used to pride myself on being emotionally dead…
Dear limerence_is_a_mindf***,
I see the rationale for this but I don’t think either option is good.
Self-medicating using LO is a temporary and shallow relief. The only way through is by changing something tangible. If you do not feel secure enough to try big changes, make some smaller ones. Just feeling like you are doing something for yourself will give you back a sense of control. I know that its tempting to retreat to the safety of LO worship/escape from reality but its not real and on some level you know this. Also, I really can’t imagine the pain of being limerent for your boss who makes you feel bad (which may or may not be his fault – we all feel bad around LO eventually). Can you try to do one thing for yourself today? Switch off from either new or old LO for 5 minutes, while doing something you enjoy?
„ There’s really no way out of my marriage as he’s threatened to take half and do worse if he has nothing to lose. So I stay in a loveless, sexless marriage and put up with the verbal abuse.“
I can’t understand this! There is always a way.
You only have one life. Live it.
Laloba
She’s mentioned marriage but never children. Sometimes, if that is the case, can be a powerful motivator for enduring an unhappy relationship. All that being said our oldest son knew I was going through something with LO. He may have not understood limerence (as I never knew what it was when I was going through it) I do remember at 21 he told me to me face “Dad you need to remember why you love Mom and not her.” That cut me in half. But was on point.
I would think it is the opposite. In my case I stayed longer in an unhappy marriage than I wanted. Only because we have a daughter an I didn’t want to hurt her with a divorce. Finally I separated because an unhappy, depressive mother is worse.
I have an adult child still living with us. Really not sure what I want as staying with SO is just easier than divorcing. Who’s to say I’d end up any happier single? Especially if I’m still prone to limerence. I can’t be with LO, obviously, since he’s married and it’s finally hitting me that that’s the reality. Also starting to realize that our interactions were just normal and professional and I made too much out of them thanks to my limerent brain (example: butterflies just because he looked towards my office when he walked by). I feel so delusional and stupid. Now struggling just to get my brain to think of him as just my boss again and nothing more. It’s a depressing state to be in. I’m fine and doing well one minute and get terribly sad the next. Time to work on whatever childhood trauma I went through as well as purposeful living.
Could this term be true — Intellectual Limerence?
A highly potent psychological phenomenon: Intellectual Limerence.
“It is a misconception that limerence requires a face (yes for a romantic LE). For a highly intellectual, analytical person (usually introvert) who gets easily bored by standard human chatter, a brilliant, hidden mind is the ultimate drug.
The Dopamine Architecture: Rumination tendencies (or OCD) feed on high-stakes mental puzzles; and the brain runs on the dopamine of exploring and navigating an intellectual labyrinth. “
I’m just thinking aloud here:
Let me call the pair-bonding glimmered LE as LE in heart, and intellectual LE as LE in mind. Would a lasting, successful relationship/marriage, such as DrL’s, need/require the both? Isn’t there a cliche that body and mind untied in alignment/total harmony?
Biological pleasure (territory) is limited (no one can eat or sex 24/7); but intellectual labyrinth is infinitely fascinating for a brilliant, agile, curious mind to explore/expand. If a couple is on the same page in this regard — mutual LE in mind (not necessary in the same field), they could get inspired by each other (not get bored after the honeymoon), like those artists limerents with this artists LOs.
Many mutual LE interactions failed to fruit in a lasting relationship (including my marriage), could it be also due to the lack of intellectual LE in the couple (true in my case), besides other factors, ie. crush of LE fantasies, clash of personalities, or other realistic barriers?
The next question is: can LE in heart sparkle LE in mind, or vice versa — LE in mind lead LE in heart? Or both have to coexist simultaneously to make a workable (always work in progress in any kind of relationship), truly fulfilling relationship/matrimony?
edit: “with *their* artists LOs”.