In last week’s open thread, I mentioned a phenomenon that affected me during limerence, when I could feel my sense of responsibility ebbing away during contact with my limerent object. As I described it: some internal force seemed to be able to sedate my executive brain. It was a kind of warm feeling of agreeable surrender – a strange mood in which I knew I was willing to behave irresponsibly. Any previous resolve to stop seeking limerent reward evaporated, and it felt gratifying to give in to temptation, at a dark, animal, greedy level.
Many people related to that experience. It really is a peculiar sensation of feeling like a different person with suspended impulse control. A quiet, distant intellectual voice urges you to stop acting so recklessly, but in the moment you just, fundamentally, don’t care. You just want.
As some of the commenters put it:
“…there is a right old flood of the brain chemicals in these situations that has us acting almost outside of ourselves.” Lim-a-rant
“I think very rationally and take a long time to weigh decisions. So I do that and decide there is something I have to say no to, for a host of excellent reasons. I go to my LO, she asks me about it, and I say yes. It’s especially annoying that she doesn’t have to insist at all, and no amount of convincing myself before seems to help.” Anon
It’s as though the executive authority of the brain has been suspended.
As I mentioned in that post, I’ve struggled a bit to come up with a way of describing this phenomenon. With more reflection, I think that the authority isn’t so much suspended as sidestepped. So, I’ve decided on a new term to describe this state of mind: Appetite Supremacy.
Appetite supremacy is at the heart of much of the ridiculous behaviour that limerents exhibit. Sending fruity texts and emails. Outrageous flirting. Oversharing intimate hopes and secrets. Exaggerated praise for LO. Paying for lavish gifts. Jumping into action whenever LO calls – those actions that limerents look back on with queasy embarrassment after they’ve come to their senses, knowing that duty, shame, pride or plain good sense should have stopped them.
So, why do we do it? What’s happening in the brain of limerents that makes doing something stupid and disruptive feel irresistible?
Too much wanting
I’m a big advocate for the concept of limerence as addiction to another person, and the phenomenon of appetite supremacy is obviously relevant to addictive behaviour.
All self-aware addicts report a moment of realisation when they recognise that they can’t resist temptation through simple willpower – that having an opportunity to indulge their addiction will inevitably trigger drug use, regardless of the negative consequences for their lives.
One of the leading theories for addiction is known as “incentive salience“. I’ve written about some of the implications before, principally that wanting and liking are distinct systems in the brain and can become uncoupled.
During addiction, the wanting system (driven by dopamine) becomes highly sensitized to the addictive stimulus. The dopamine system initiates reward-seeking behaviour and so being exposed to cues that remind you of your addiction causes a massive motivational drive.
Unfortunately for addicts, the sensitization of these “wanting circuits” is robust and long-lasting. Even worse, it correlates with a suppression of the cortical feedback pathways that moderate reward-seeking – the executive system that governs impulse control.
Addiction deranges our wanting circuits, so that the gas pedal is floored at the same time as the brakes are released.
Importantly, this isn’t a generalised hyperactivity of the wanting system. It is triggered by cues that are associated with the addiction – and for limerents, being in the company of the LO is clearly going to be the most powerful cue.
In moments of calm, away from the stimulus, it is perfectly possible for addicts to rationally analyse their behaviour, agree it is destructive, and express a purposeful intention to break the addiction and recover.
That determination lasts right up until the next exposure kicks them back into the mental state of appetite supremacy.
What can be done?
If appetite supremacy in limerence comes from hyperactive wanting plus suppressed impulse control, and it’s predictably triggered by exposure to LO, then there are some constructive steps that can be taken to tackle the problem.
1. Hit the emergency brake
One ray of light in this rather bleak picture of deranged wanting is that the “suspension of executive authority” is imperfect. There does seem to be a higher, ultimate authority that can step in at the last moment and pull the limerent back from the brink.
To take the common scenario of a married limerent who has become infatuated with a co-worker, appetite supremacy may drive them to flirtation, inappropriate intimacy, even an emotional affair, but many limerents stop themselves before crossing the tipping point of starting a physical affair.
Appetite supremacy can encourage wild boundary-testing, but many people do seem to have a psychological emergency stop that averts disaster.
We can argue about the origin of this emergency stop (obligation, guilt, fear, integrity), but it proves that the situation isn’t hopeless. Willpower can triumph over temptation.
Indeed, the emergency stop can kick in sooner. That was my saving grace. I was aware enough even in the face of appetite supremacy to erect a kind of final executive barrier – a last line of self-control that prevented me from disclosing or crossing any red-lines of impropriety. Even in the haze of wilful recklessness, I knew deep down that I didn’t want to do anything, I just selfishly wanted to play. To get some delicious limerence liquor, consequence free.
Of course, it wasn’t consequence free. I was training myself into a habit of secrecy and deceit. Even if I thought I could handle it, every time I was in that state of wilful recklessness I was playing with fire and reinforcing the limerence.
2. Stop reinforcing the limerence
The obvious next step is to avoid the circumstances that you know will trigger your wanting circuits.
No contact is the most consequential choice you can make, but there are other, subtler tactics. For one thing, you can modify your environment to try and eliminate cues that make you think of LO. This can be hard when limerence is well advanced and everything reminds you of LO, but changing your living space and introducing novelty, can be a potent force for rebooting your mindset.
One of the confounding factors in the study of addiction neuroscience is that the context of a test has a big impact on the results. By putting addicts into labs and MRI scanners, researchers developed lots of ideas about the mechanisms of addiction, only to later find out that the neural systems they were studying behaved differently in the home environment (or in another environment associated with drug taking).
Context matters.
Other tactics for breaking reinforcement are getting rid of gifts, getting rid of photos, blocking LO on social media – anything that disrupts the daily habits that keep LO in mind.
Habits kick in during moments of inattention. Like the smoker who has a lit cigarette in their mouth before they consciously realise what they’ve done, the impulse to contact LO is a reward-seeking habit loop that is running on autopilot in the background.
Become attentive to when your LO-seeking habits kick in and devise ways to disrupt the behavioural loop.
3. Deprogram the wanting circuits
The next stage is trying to desensitize your hyperactive wanting system. This is what I call “emergency deprogramming”, and what my online course is designed to achieve.
The idea is to use psychological tricks to overwrite the old association between LO and reward, and introduce a new association linking LO to discomfort. By deliberately spoiling limerent reverie and LO contact, you can accelerate “extinction” of the reward memories and undermine the wanting impulse.
Done in isolation, this approach can be demoralising, so it should also be coupled to finding new rewards and new sources of emotional nourishment.
One of the best strategies for gaining that positive outcome is to focus on self-improvement.
4. Exercise the executive feedback circuits
The ideal scenario for beating appetite supremacy would be to simultaneously weaken wanting and strengthen impulse control. Happily, purposeful living achieves both outcomes.
Self-discipline is the ability to do what you know you should do, even if you don’t want to do it. That skill can be learned and strengthened through practice.
The neuroscience of self-discipline is complex, and there are arguments to be made about whether addicts suffer more because of the strength of wanting versus the weakness of impulse control, but it’s undeniable that practicing discipline in one area of life has benefits in all areas of life.
This is most obviously true for the so-called keystone habits, of diet, exercise and sleep. Get those right and a lot of gains follow. If your core habits are purposeful, life quickly becomes more enjoyable and manageable.
Appetite supremacy is a destructive state to experience, but like most psychological trials, it can be overcome. There’s a philosophical debate to be had about whether addiction is a disease, a failure of character, or (as most people intuit) something in between. Regardless, if you do fall into that state of impaired self-control you are going to have to develop coping strategies to manage it.
All of us have some quirks and instabilities in our brains that need to be adapted to and compensated for. I’ve stated before that I wouldn’t want to lose my capacity for limerence, as it provided unparalleled joy when I experienced it in the context of a open, honest relationship. But, it is a handicap when it arrives unexpectedly.
The purposeful choice is always to accept your fundamental nature as it is, recognise that your limitations will make some trials difficult for you, but strive to be the best version of yourself that you can be.
I think this is an additional powerful player in limerent drive, susceptibility in some people to romance scams and minimising early relationship red flags to a point of near invisibility.
As I understand it, brain scans were made of people who were in the honeymoon phase, described themselves as deeply in love and therefore hyper-focussed on the object of their desire. These scans revealed that the area of the brain involved in ‘critical thinking’ was, if not switched off, then turned way down. The brain working hard to overide any obstacles to pair bonding as in “don’t think, act on the mating opportunity”
I totally relate with the idea of wanting supremacy. A few months back I came up with a key word that I repeat to myself as part of a deprogramming mechanism. That word is FUTILITY. Meaning every interaction that my wanting brain has with LO in the pursuit of romance with her is futile. It never leads where I want it to lead. LO is never closer to romance with me, she never quite behaves how I hope she would, and she never pursues me like I pursue her. After a while I recognize that my efforts are futile. When I get that urge to pursue and initiate with LO I try to stop and remember “futility” and it helps me perhaps stop what I am about to do. It has been a helpful tool in my efforts to remain distanced from my LO.
On a more personal note, personally distancing from LO has become a bit trickier in recent months as she has noticed it and actually asked me about it. At the same time she has done very little to ever initiate with me or even reciprocate evenly so I am somewhat dismissive of her inquiry to my behavior towards her. I have pretty much taken then position of ‘I will act how I want to act’ (I am talking personal relationship, professionally I keep things pleasant) and if that is upsetting to LO then that is her issue, not mine.
I have also become resigned to the fact that none of this changes or gets much better until she exits my life and I can be completely NC. I literally daydream about being completely NC. I have had hints of it this last year as LO has been away for a few extended periods and I could feel the blanket of limerence lift only to have it reapplied upon her return.
Hey Speedwagon,
When you can finally go NC there is an adjustment period but then soon you will realize you are out of the Limerence prison, and you are free! It’s so exhilarating! Your brain starts to relax and you feel yourself calming down and slowly but surely you have full control of your emotions again. I hope this can happen for you soon!
Thanks for the word “Futility”, which was strong in the back burner throughout my LE, which ultimately prevented me from acting out my emotions regrettably….
Appetite Supremacy is in much lower degree in my previous culture and personal upbringing; by comparison, I was already a half Stoic before even knowing what Stoicism is. True Stoics seeks long term satisfaction, not instant gratification that one knows it’s going to be FUTILE, or even harmful.
A problem is that after someone goes to all these lengths to forget about an LO, they can be unwittingly walking right into another challenging LE.
And rest assured … the LO is probably aware of the effect they have on the limerent. I find it hard to believe that the limerent’s feelings don’t bleed out. Having been on the receiving end of that kind of behavior somewhat recently (not with my LO, of course) …. with someone I dated briefly and with whom I ended things and he then made it clear he would have done just about anything to keep things going … I can say it’s not attractive. I didn’t feel flattered. And of course then I thought: Was this how I acted with my LO? As I’ve I’d lost my sense of self and self-respect? I sure hung on long enough, so probably.
Dignity is overrated.
Self-esteem and self-respect — vital element of mental health, is Under-stressed.
90-99% of population, regardless social, economical, and personal “attractions”, in both sides of the Earth, live in external eyes….
It isn’t. And having it is very attractive. A person with a strong sense of self and boundaries is attractive.
Agreed. It’s super intriguing!
Does nobody on here think for one minute what their SO or partner feels about this when discovered? It is totally heartbreaking.
Hello Rooth,
After reading your question, I suspect that you are the SO of a limerent. I would like to offer you a resource that might be helpful to you.
https://livingwithlimerence.com/dealing-with-limerence-in-marriage/
Also, I want to answer your question. You asked if limerents are concerned about how their SO will feel about their limerence. They are absolutely worried about their SO’s feelings! I haven’t met a limerent who isn’t worried about their SO’s feelings. Many of the people on LwL came here because they want to get over their limerence without hurting anyone, especially their SO.
Lolol!
Marcia,
dignity /dĭg′nĭ-tē/ noun
1. The quality or state of being worthy of esteem or respect.
2. Inherent nobility and worth.
“the dignity of honest labor.”
3. Poise and self-respect.
– The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition • More at Wordnik
Marcia,
To me, your original post combines #1 and #3. We do some really odd things when were in limerence or when we fall for the wrong person. When LO #2 told me that she was flying to to LA from Seattle to spend the weekend with the guy who was cheating on her, my response was that I thought she had more self-respect and that she really didn’t like herself very much. LO #4 thought she’d betrayed herself by some of the things that she did to try and salvage the relationship with her ex. She described some of them as degrading and humiliating but didn’t provide any specifics.
Once a limererent has hit the Bozo phase of limerence and you want to extract yourself to save further embarrassment and humiliation, continuing to try to finesse your way out can come across as just lame. If I ever found myself back on the market, trying to re-engage any of my past LOs would be lame. Re-engaging LO #2 would be a humiliating personal defeat. Re-engaging LO #4 would only be lame.
I agree that a strong sense of self and boundaries are attractive. For me, they were requirements. I thought LO #2 had them but it turned out that she didn’t.
Sorry if I misinterpreted you…again.
“The Lame List” – “Almost Live”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5o2HLdiels
LE,
I wasn’t talking about what LOs do that lacks self-respect. I was talking about what we limerents do. I spent a lot of time kissing some LO booty. I can’t lie about that. With the few I got involved with, I’m embarrassed as to what I put up with. It’s not about reengaging with them later. I’d already embarrassed myself during the first go around.
And I’m sure my LOs sensed the power they had over me. You can sense when someone will put up with a lot. You can feel it. It’s not attractive.
I think dignity is a great word, but I don’t know if earning/retaining self-respect and abandoning a situation are necessarily the same thing as that.
I’d agree having clearly defined boundaries is important, but it is of course a conondrum. Walking away means losing any hope of making things work, and you can also respect yourself but say that you want something to work and are prepared to push for it. Making yourself vulnerable like that is also a form of dignity. I think the critical thing you said Marcia is that he would have done ‘just about anything’ to make it work – that’s not dignified.
Personally, for illustration, I got it wrong twice, but in different ways. LO1 I wish I’d walked away waaaay earlier, for my own self respect, not to receive it, and never looked back. That took me around 4 years. LO2 I did walk away, mainly informed by my experience during LO1, and probably won some respect for it based on later conversations we had, but I certainly didn’t win the long game of getting into a relationship or feeling like I’d given it my best shot. On reflection, I should have clearly defined my boundaries but not walked away, it was probably something worth fighting for and the chances of winning were less than 50% I’d gues, but not 0%.
Back to topic – getting this right while your executive authority is love-drunk is somewhere between not very easy and nigh on impossible…
Heebie Jeebies,
“I certainly didn’t win the long game of getting into a relationship or feeling like I’d given it my best shot”
I don’t know what you mean by giving it your best shot, but if it’s fighting for it or letting the LO know you’re interested (repeatedly) or hanging around in hopes things happen … those are limerent fallacies. IMO.
I don’t know your exact situation, but what I would do in the future … is ask the person out. Once. (This is an example.) And if they give me some kind of nebulous response, my response would be to tell them to let me know if they’re available and they have my number. And leave it at that.
And then if I run into them, I can still be pleasant, but I’m not hanging around and continuing to put my energy into a situation that’s probably a dead-end.
Sometimes it’s best to cut your losses. It’s not always about if you like them, it’s also if they like you and like you enough to want to date you and see you, etc.
I know the LO takes on this monumental place in our minds because of the limerence, but they’re really no different than any other dating prospect.
I meant the point more generically about what dignity is, having a strong sense of self, self-respect, having boundaries etc.
My general point is I felt the post and tone of the conversation here was you are Limerent, ergo you’re irrational, therfore you need to extricate yourself from the situation. I disagree with that analysis as the only possible solution, it is too generic. I think the course of action Dr L’s suggests is fine if you have gone beyond a point where you can get together with someone because any romantic spark is long dead, or there are barriers.
For situation where there aren’t barriers or a romance is already happening (but presumably starting to fail at a minimum), there is a world of ‘courting advice’ on youtube and so on about how to get things back on track. I’m guessing it does boil down to needing to clearly state your position and expectations around behaviour/barriers etc. Just because one’s executive authority has been impeached, and the wanting circuits are amped up to 11, doesn’t mean IMO always just running for the hills. It will just be tougher than for non limerents.
None of this is active for me, all from way back when and just some reflections.
Heebie Jeebies,
“My general point is I felt the post and tone of the conversation here was you are Limerent, ergo you’re irrational, therefor you need to extricate yourself from the situation. ”
That wasn’t what I was saying at all. I was saying that we limerents often do too much to get things started or too much to keep things going because we’re so fixated on this one particular person. This is the place where we lose a sense of self. Or dignity. Or whatever word you want to use.
Sometimes there’s no hope for the relationship. Sometimes it’s best to throw in the towel.
Some LO’s just get the biggest thrill over the power to make do the limerent dance at the snap of their fingers.
When I know someone has feelings for me that I don’t reciprocate the last thing I would do is toy with them and encourage hope.
It’s cruel! And icky!
LO’s though seem to often be a different breed.
Jaideux,
“When I know someone has feelings for me that I don’t reciprocate the last thing I would do is toy with them and encourage hope.
It’s cruel! And icky!”
It is. And the limerent can put some distance between themselves and the LO, they can be less accessible to the LO … but it’s just bluffing, and the LO knows it. They know they still have the limerent on the hook.
The only way for a limerent to regain their power (and dignity, if that’s the word were using) is to walk away completely.
Marcia,
“And the limerent can put some distance between themselves and the LO, they can be less accessible to the LO … but it’s just bluffing, and the LO knows it. They know they still have the limerent on the hook.
The only way for a limerent to regain their power (and dignity, if that’s the word were using) is to walk away completely.”
As The Phantom of the Opera put it,
“Sing once again with me a strange duet
My power over you grows stronger yet…
In all your fantasies, you always knew
That man and mystery
Were both in you”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQGQgiKDBbU – Sara Brightman and Michael Crawford
The Phantom of the Opera has great limerent undertones.
@LE,
I love the Phantom of the Opera, the theme and music —
Without the Phantom and mystery, the girl just cannot sing her best — the creative power of limerence! “I wouldn’t want to lose my capacity for limerence, as it provided unparalleled joy” (DrL) of artistic CREATIVITY! Being Inspired by mystery is one of puzzling human natures; without it, there would be without arts and sciences.
Such a Phantom — a Muse, often strike from an external source/catalyst, rarely just internal one. Without Her, artists and scientists could not create and invent.
It’s dire hard to feed and sustain an internal Phantom solely with oneself… it’s just a human nature,
Typo: should be “solely within oneself.
If one catalyst is died off, another one is usually needed….
On the topic of limerence and muses is this video by analog missionary, Lilith:
https://youtu.be/OVH5H1WGT6s?si=IpmRiFZoGvuj2h_I
In the video, “Lilith” —
Clearly, it’s not the Muse/woman’ herself, nor the man’s sudden creativity/inspiration, but his ATTEMPTS acting on his limerence desire to “own” physical her, that has led to his insane behavior.
What would happen if the man stayed in a little distance while bumping into the woman, only savoring her sight and polite greetings/brief chitchats, maximumly utilizing the bursted imagination to finish his writing/composing? Then, he might become Dante or Goethe or Berlioz Jr. 99th!
Having desires is an innate human nature, but the culture of consumerism, instant gratification and meritocracy (in relationship, Fate has her large share of force) does not help prevent or stay away from limerence, as well as other types of addictions, IMO.
Yeah, Snow,
Inspiration is where you find it.
If I had a bucket list, one of the things that would be on it would be playing “Music of the Night” on the oboe for the National Symphony Orchestra in the pit of the Kennedy Center in Washington DC.
@Jaideux,
“LO’s though seem to often be a different breed.“
Hmmm… I can’t help try to figure out what breed I was in, as a LO many times over being a limerent, a true one only in the last LE. In my COO, I might be considered a “cruel” LO, but might be an okay one here…
As an ignorant cptsd victim, an anxious-attached, a damsel of maternal neglecting&abusing, an escaping bookworm, with a switched MBTI box, I became a covert lone-wolf, but still a target of unwanted attention.
I’m only talking about those who initially glmmered (to me) and I had gone out with (all available, except LO#2 who had a gf) for short or long… I never knew any “power LO/sO could possibly hold over ITs crushed/limerent; I never felt empowered or even flattered, but temporarily pleased, shortly “escaped and relieved”, then disillusioned, lonely, scared, annoyed, angered, pained, shocked, saddened and touched… Ignorant naive, I also never truly knew and understood what kind of pains a crushed/limerent could have gone through in their system ( until I became an authentic one in the past 7 years and read stuff here over last year).
“When I know someone has feelings for me that I don’t reciprocate the last thing I would do is toy with them and encourage hope.
It’s cruel! And icky!“
It’s very comforting to hear your view, which I totally agree and intuitively did so to every non-glimmered, “affectionate” man passing through my path. I neither had no interests or felt fearful to hang around their lightbulb eyes, for what? for the “feelings” that could neither fuel my MF nor play matching mental/emotional 🏓 tournament with me… ❓Quite immature and insecure with my cptsd, I still knew by raw experiences that those unwanted affections would not help reduce my sense of insecurity nor anxious attachments.
In my COO, quickly/harshly cutting off one’s affectionate date/bf/gf whom one had gone out with was considered cruel, but I could not help it once my illusions for them or my initial glimmer had gone, or the situation was going to cause big harms to my realistic wellbeing…. Now in hindsight, I did the best thing for my welfare by firmly walking away from those dreamy eyes or drooling mouths (I made sure that I did not drool during my LE, although my eyes were lit up a lot). If xLOs/xlimerents got hurt or their consequent life was “ruined”, that would be their own issue….
Only through my last LE, studying narcissism and landing in LwL, I learned that there is a “breed” of LOs who would toy with limerents’ emotions for power control and their deep sense of insecurity. It was so shocking to me. By comparison, I was a very merciful and forgiving LO….
Now, I feel more at ease for being a “cruel” LO in my COO (but not one here), although some of my xlimerents would say that my real LE is my deserved “punishment” by Fate. However, I still do NOT regret it — once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to finally dig out my multiple Selfs…. What/who else could instigate and push such a worthy know-thyself journey?
@Jaideux.
“It’s cruel! And icky!”
You forgot “yucky” and “gross”. 🙂
In my case, it seems to me that I tend to be too measured in circumstances where I don’t need to be. The problem seems to come when I do make a measured decision to do something proactive, that it gets received as “NOPE! WRONG ANSWER! START OVER!” The easiest thing to do, of course, is not to do anything. If you think your LO is being driven bonkers by your own doginess, consider it a form of amusement — reveal nothing, because they are just going to do the same thing to you anyway.
BTW, that E-stop button in the photo above looks a lot like the ones we have all over the plant I work in.
Overthink a decision
As Lwl’s resident functioning alcohol, I can indeed attest to Dr L’s “person addiction” analogy. Was it crossing a line buying LO a gift “just because”. Me: yes that would be bad. You are married, she is much younger and you are co-workers. That would look bad.” Also me: Would it be okay to buy LO a Christmas gift? Sure, I’ve bought Christmas gifts for female co-workers before.” So I did.
Me: You fell over drunk yesterday and tore a ligament and are now in a sling for a month with, at this point, unknown possible permanent damage, if not a surgery. Also me the next day: Well you can’t drive to church and I am not going to wake up my wife who took care of me all day yesterday until 1 am in the morning so might as well make me a drink.
I can get through my whole work day and errands or whatever after work just fine. When I pull into the driveway and park the truck, knowing I have no where else to go; time for a drink.
When I stopped seeing her everyday on a regular basis and was back at my normal location I did fine. Sure sometimes I might hope she answered the phone when I would call but for the most part I did fine. But if for whatever reason my boss told me to return there I already had the ice in the limerent cup and could not wait to have her pour “the vodka” on it as soon as I would see her.
Both have/had both psychological and physical consequences for me. One I am fairly certain I have kicked. And now recognize the triggers so that I can pull the emergency brake the moment I feel at tiny bit of limerence again. The other one ….. well we’ll see.
Oddly enough I have been enjoying this old childhood favorite of mine. Fine Young Cannibals was the first CD I ever bought. (All my first crush Paula Abdul albums were on cassette.) This song now has a whole new meaning to it, which has been helping me put distance between myself and revere.
She Drives Me Crazy — Fine Young Cannibals
https://youtu.be/J–Nq_zDDr8?si=Ru1ObnRgKgJHdNkd
(continuation of thread https://livingwithlimerence.com/coffeehouse-open-thread/#comment-63705 posted here as it fits this theme)
nebisch
When I was at college, the people I hung around with had invented this word, it’s sort of a corruption of ‘nebbish’, meaning a ‘nobody’.
I like how it rolls off the tongue (the stress is on the 2nd syllable), it sounds so dismissive, imagine saying it with a flick of the wrist.
We used it in context of a breakup.
The difference is that while the original is objective, a slur, ‘nebisch’ is subjective.
Most of the time, we mean so very little to our LO’s.
Perhaps some idle entertainment.
An awkward moment.
A means to some end.
But their influence on us is earthshaking.
Actually, in most cases we do mean more than nothing, or there would be no friction of reality for the limerence to take hold.
So we try, we try and yearn so hard to mean something more, anything..
Truth is that once we are out of sight, we’re out of their mind. Yet they fill our every waking thought.
It’s so lopsided.
Our goal is that, someday, our LO will be ‘nebisch’ to us as we are to them.
Just like in any healthy breakup.
I think “appetite supremacy” is a much better term than “suspension of authority”. I think maybe what happens in the brain during the early stages of limerence is that one drive (the mating drive) becomes temporarily prioritised over other drives. I.e. other drives become subordinate to the mating drive.
In my opinion, during limerence, one really does become a different person, while still being the person one has always been. Our bodies are almost (but not quite) drugged into submission. But submission to what? I think our genes wish to fool us into reproduction. We are sedated by our own brains so that we obey the biological imperative to breed. But it’s a bit iffy if circumstances aren’t ideal, etc.
Based on my own experience, there’s a part of me that wants to compare limerence to the phenomenon of demonic possession. But that’s not quite the right metaphor. Perhaps a more apt metaphor is that limerence can be like an alien parasite that comes to live inside the human brain. This alien parasite doesn’t necessarily harm the host organism, but it releases chemical substances into the host’s body, so the host will be amenable to doing the parasite’s bidding.
I guess what I’m saying is the same thing that Tennov herself said – which is simply that pair-bonding is one aspect of human behaviour that very likely remains heavily under the control of genes. I.e. certain sequences of genes must be activated or deactivated in order to make the altered state possible – and, indeed, pleasurable – to humans.
“… warm feeling of agreeable surrender.”
Well, what is this warm feeling exactly? Does anybody know? Is it the brain releasing dopamine in moderate amounts? Is it ecstasy? It doesn’t sound like the rush of brain chemicals while limerence is in full swing. So maybe small-to-moderate releases of dopamine in the brain to trick our brains into craving more and more dopamine, until we’re no longer satisfied with smaller amounts?
There’s a chocolate in Australia called Top Deck. It’s basically white chocolate on top of milk chocolate. For some reason, I associate the pleasure I get from eating Top Deck chocolate with the same pleasure I got from my XLO. But it would be the pleasure I got from my XLO in the early stage of limerence, before crystallisation, before things spun out of control in terms of neurochemistry.
The warm feeling of agreeable surrender = perhaps a warning sign that one is about to fall into something much deeper if one is not careful?
The warm feeling of agreeable surrender = also a sign that one has detected something (someone) deemed highly rewarding in one’s environment?
A moment of self reflection..
It’s been 3+1/2 months NC.
MPDG showed up at my workplace the other day. Again.
I only missed seeing her due to a last-minute change in my shift.
Only this time, I am relieved that we didn’t break NC.
But not because I’m getting over her.
For the past month and a half, since the first time this happened, I’ve been secretly hoping that my LO would break NC for me.
Checking the daily log for her distinctive signature. Cheating by proxy.
And now that she actually almost did resume contact, I know it’s nothing to do with me.
It would have been due to a blend of boredom, curiosity, and genuine friendliness. No other former intern does this. But perfectly in character for MPDG.
MPDG attracts playthings like a magnet. And her attention jumps around like a puppy chasing squirrels.
Like, within seconds. New Toy!!!
If we met again in passing, MPDG would either ignore me, whilst drawing attention to herself (her typical behaviour in public), greet me warmly (how she used to, in private), or just say hi (.. and bye).
I don’t think I’m quite ready for the indifference of that last response.
It would spell how I’ve been replaced by a bunch of other squirrels. Even though I know this to be true, many times over.
I wonder what stage of limerence I’m at.. is there a denial phase?
It’s quite possible that my LO will continue to flit in and out, never quite gone.
A waft of smoke dancing under my nose just as I am on the verge of quitting.
I guess I should prepare myself for the pain of limerence limbo..
“And now that she actually almost did resume contact, I know it’s nothing to do with me.
It would have been due to a blend of boredom, curiosity, and genuine friendliness.”
Sounds quite clear-sighted to me and not like denial.
Thanks, Mila.
Another reason for MPDG’s reappearance, is that she might want to work here after her traineeship.
She complained to me that management didn’t like her, and had reprimanded her for being “too friendly” (her words).
So I assumed that she wouldn’t want to come back.
But say if she does actually want to work here (an unusual choice for a young single person, some toughness is required), then it makes sense.
By showing initiative and being keen, she’s playing her cards right.
So I’m faced with the prospect of working side by side with my LO in maybe 6 months time..
(nearly all of them leave, though, when some easier opportunity arises)
Ghostzoned,
now you are faced with the opposite of me last year- in six months she might work with you, mine was „in six months he might leave for good“.
I advise not to ponder on it, on her decision etc. Your hopes will go up and down and you will waste too much time on speculating how it would be etc.
If she comes to work with ou, you‘ll cope. Maybe you will even realize that she‘s not that great, you‘ll see some flaws and she won’t be the MPDG anymore, only MG or whatever.. Ypu can not know now anyway, so don’t think too much about it, don’t reinforce the limerent neuronal pathways.
Wondering and pondering if my LO will leave or not and how it will be, what I will lose etc didn’t help me one bit and actually spawned the whole LE, uncertainty being a powerful drive.