Time usually resolves limerence, but sometimes we limerents impatiently wonder, where’s the damn off switch?
Now some people are resistant to the very idea of reducing love to a biochemical process in our brains that can be analysed, understood and manipulated, but those people are probably not in the middle of a limerence crisis. While I think my credentials as a romantic are solid, I also have a practical nature and so have spent a fair amount of time thinking about what can actually be done to try and counteract the immediate impact of limerence when it’s unwanted.
In the long term, my favoured solution is purposeful living, which may or may not need to follow a period of deep introspection and possibly professional help in understanding just what’s up with your crazy brain and why you are prone to the limerence rollercoaster. But sometimes, more urgent intervention is desirable, so what tactics do we have at our disposal to try and at least moderate the emotional overload? I’ve talked before about some of the best, but today I’m going to focus on the mind games. Can we deprogram ourselves and stop an LO being an LO?
I’d answer with a tentative yes.
Forgetting
What does forgetting mean? That probably sounds like a silly question, but like much in neuroscience, it’s quite subtle. In some cases, forgetting is a total blank – you just can’t recall the event, person, experience or place. You need external evidence to even believe that such a thing occurred. But that’s very rare for powerful stimuli, and I think we can all agree that limerence falls into that category. So it’s foolish to aim for the goal of total forgetting; what we really want is for that person – the LO – to be less powerful as a stimulus. For us to be able to manage our interactions with them without getting overaroused, and for them to not dominate our minds when we are away from them. Here we are on firmer territory when it comes to research. Associating certain stimuli with reward or punishment, and reinforcing or diminishing those stimuli is at the heart of conditioning and there’s loads of literature to draw on.
Now, as an aside, I want to be clear that the research on limerence itself in this context is basically non-existent, so this is all speculative territory and relies on an analogy between well understood rewards (such as food or pharmacological stimulants) and limerence as a manifestation of finding a specific person a rewarding and potentially addictive stimulus. So, I’m pushing the boat out into speculative waters here…
With that qualification out of the way, let’s dive in.
Extinction
How do you get rid of a memory you don’t want? Actually, the way we do this is to overwrite the original memory with a new one. Let’s take the example of Pavlov’s dogs. This is a bit hackneyed, but it’s familiar and that’s useful. So, the story goes that Pavlov trained his dogs to associate the sound of a bell ringing with the delivery of food (this isn’t quite what happened, but never mind). After training his dogs in this way for a while, the dogs began to anticipate the food by salivating whenever the bell was rung. This is the classic example of conditioning, which involves “associative memory” (learning a new association between stimuli). So far so good. But what happens if you keep ringing the bell, but stop delivering food? At first, the dogs keep drooling like the messy pups they are. But over time, the bell ceases to trigger anticipation, and the dogs get used to the fact that they are no longer getting their lovely chow and so stop salivating. The previous associative memory has been lost, through a process known as extinction, but it takes a while for this “bell but no food” lesson to be learned.
Since Pavlov’s day, of course, there has been a great deal of research into these processes, and it turns out that the brain is really quite weird and surprising, and fun to mess with. At one level, it seems that extinction should just be a fading away of an old memory that is no longer relevant, but actually it’s more complicated than that. What’s actually happening is that a new associative memory has been learned that overwrites the original one and supercedes it. This is easy to anthropomorphise – “oh, there’s that bell that used to mean that food was coming, but hasn’t done for a while, so no need to get excited.”
At the risk of letting this post get totally out of hand with a discussion of memory and learning, there are three other relevant points before we get back to limerence. 1) Because extinction is a superceding of old associations, rather than forgetting, the old memory can be recalled quickly when the original stimulus is reintroduced. Dogs learn to salivate faster if they have previously been conditioned and then extinguished, compared to dogs learning the association in the first place. 2) Intermittent reinforcement schedules take a lot longer to extinguish than regular ones. 3) Punishment accelerates extinction.
Limerence extinction
What can we learn from all this to help with elimination of limerence? Given what we know about conditioning and extinction, we could devise the follow method for mental mastery of limerence:
1) Recognise that being with LO or ruminating about LO is giving you pleasure and continuing in these behaviours is reinforcing your conditioning.
2) Decide that you want to extinguish that associative memory.
3) Devise a negative feedback programme to hasten extinction and overwrite the original positive association.
That’s the plan. What does it look like in practical terms?
No contact if possible, obviously. If not possible, then limited contact is next best. Either way, contact is not always in your control, or predictable. However, another key aspect of limerence reinforcement that most certainly is within your control is rumination. Entering a reverie and fantasising or rehearsing interactions with LO is a way of seeking pleasure in the early stages and relief from withdrawal in the later stages of limerence. You need to break that association. Each time you willingly enter reverie, you reinforce those connections, and reinforce the associative memory “LO = pleasure”. That’s why we do it. Reverie gives relief from discomfort by imagining a positive encounter.
If you are one of those limerents that enjoys a rich imagination, you will almost certainly have invented some pleasant fantasy scenarios with LO. These are the perfect mechanism for generating your own extinction programme. By inventing new outcomes to your reveries, you can turn your sweet, rewarding fantasies into sour punishments.
Let’s say you imagine driving off into the sunset with LO as a daydream. Now you need to vividly imagine LO suddenly shouting “I’m sorry, I’ve made a terrible mistake! Stop the car! I have to leave! I don’t know what I was thinking! I never want to see you again!” (include all the exclamation marks). You can go to town on this – the key thing is to make your reverie punishing. When you fantasise about having a new life with LO, turn it into a nightmare of rows, regrets, misunderstandings and emotional devastation. When I was in the early stages of my last limerence episode, I used to idly fantasise about “what if…” and built up an embarrassingly elaborate scenario in which my life had played out differently and LO and I could have ended up together. Once I realised the limerence was harming me, I managed to re-imagine that scenario into such a train-wreck of disaster and humiliation that I now shudder a bit whenever the thought enters my mind.
This whole mental game can seem a bit contrived, and while it helped me, it may not work for everyone. You may feel uncomfortable – that’s fine (and probably means it’s working). You may even feel it is disrespectful to LO, who you are now actively reworking into a terrible person that you want to avoid, but don’t despair – your internal world is your sole domain. As tyrant you have complete freedom to do as you please, guilt free. No LO will be harmed by this process.
Whether or not this tactic proves fruitful for you, a good understanding of what associative memory is and how extinction works undoubtedly helps in kicking the habit of limerence daydreaming.
You’ve really got to want to, though.
If you have an aversion or dislike for a particular scent and can find a bottle of it, take a sniff whenever the LO appears. Scent is a strong trigger for memories and if the LO has a particular smell (brand of soap or something), it might not hurt to try and counteract it.
Some people hate the smell of peppermint or lavender, others hate particular brands. Dior H’omme vintage inspired this quote, “Lol, thank goodness I’m not the only one who doesn’t like smelling like I’ve been sleeping on (sic) RuPaul’s boudoir… ” It was commonly listed as one of the worst.
Ooh. Good one. Scent is a really powerful, but subconscious mood-influencer, and I’m sure scent is one of the drivers for me in becoming limerent for particular LOs.
Maybe carry around a box of anti-LO snuff at all times? Snorting some down whenever they’re around would be an effective way of discouraging them from seeking your company too.
This is very eye opening for me in terms of scent and associative memory extinction. Gonna try something like this especially since scent was part of the experience for me.
Oh this IS a good one! I remember telling him how the ‘spice’ curry made me sick to smell and eat. (The Curry we buy as a spice is not curry it’s which ever company who makes the spice mixture and version of it. Google and read up on it, that’s not my point here) Well he used to cook us a diner of fish and a few things which became very enjoyable and then one day he decides he is going to add ‘curry’ to the fish. As I’ve stated in others parts of this blog I believe he is a Narcissist and they don’t respect your boundaries. He cooked the fish with curry without regard for my discomfort or aversion. I ate a bit of it but my stomach bloated, the smell was in my nose and taste in my mouth for hours and I put the plate by the sink half eaten. Now if the aversion to curry weren’t so hard on me I could get a jar of it and sniff it each time I get obsessive about him…I”ll now try to think of that incident and remember the scent of it…great idea I HOPE. I’ve done well the last few days and haven’t been in here to ‘obsess’ with fellow ‘sufferers’ but yesterday at a football party with 15 people around ALL I could think of was HIM! I’d have to go outside from time to time to keep embarrassing myself with tears. Someone had told me something he posted on social media and it kicked off this insane process! I DO NOT WANT TO BE THIS WAY. Tears, internal emotional pain, this is not me! But here I am doing it all over again…curry! think curry Susan!
Rubber band around the wrist trick! That’s what worked for me. Everytime I had introduce thoughts about LO, I snapped that rubber band as hard as I could on my wrist. I was literally leaving little welts but guess what? It took under a month for the thoughts to stop and I had been sleeping with LO for 6 years prior to that! I learned to reprogram my brain so that when it thought of him, it associated the thoughts with real physical pain. I also had to go no contact which was very hard considering that LO constantly reached out and I had to keep explaining that he got into a relationship so he needs to leave me alone and not message me. He refused until I threatened to show his messages to his significant other. Anyway, I am getting a little derailed from my point which is: no contact and rubber band trick will get the job done in no time!!
I am going to try this! I am just wondering if it could backfire. I.e that you start liking the smell because you start associating it with your LO.
Just wanted to give a word of thanks for the blog, Dr Limerence. Currently going through a wonderful/horrible limerence experience with someone who isn’t my SO (of course).
Finding someone who writes about this thorny topic with humour and compassion really takes the sting out of situations like this. Keep it up!
Thanks Bram! Glad to help.
If this would be helpful to others (it was to me), you could think of a limerence as a powerful adverse entity; sure, you would struggle and have casualties, but there’s no question what should be done. Like a revolution, or a war with aliens. You might even make a story out of it.
I really hope that this can help my SO who isn’t keen on going NC with his LO. It’s breaking my heart and I feel like I’m dying inside. He’s angry at me for asking that he goes NC. Am I supposed to set them up on a blind date? (sarcasm) I just am tired of the worry and stress. I’m tired of being available and supposed to know that I’m loved and yet, he won’t go NC. Maybe the Pavlov idea will help. Thank you.
Hi Wading. Is this your SO’s first limerence experience? If so, he probably doesn’t realize how destructive the experience can be. In his mind, he probably thinks he’s in control of the situation. That’s only natural: the limerent brain is an expert at self-deception.
He probably won’t fully understand this until he learns it for himself. Hopefully that involves you convincing him to go NC and him looking back someday and saying, “What the hell was I thinking?”
Following this. I’m in a similar boat: wife of a man who refuses to go NC with his LO (he claims she’s his “best friend” and he would surely go crazy without her). It’s agonizing. I’m curious to see if you were able to get your SO to finally consent to go NC?
Hi Sunrise,
That’s a deep question. Is it possible to persuade a besotted limerent to go No Contact? I guess it may be possible to lead someone to the realisation that they are jeopardising their marriage, but whether you can make an ultimatum work… I suppose it depends on the person involved and how they react.
I’ve been thinking a lot recently about the effect of limerence on impacted spouses. Maybe another post is in order…
Please do write about it.
🙂 I’m on it.
My husband told me about his involuntary reactions to Miss Exotic. Then he mentioned that he didn’t know if he wanted a lover, daughter or spouse. I stopped him and told him he forgot there was someone else in the relationship who had a say. Me. And if he wanted a lover, then he needed a spouse and I wasn’t going to stick around for it.
He said it was the freezing cold bucket of water over his head that brought him back to reality. He was horrified that he had never once considered that I would make a decision on my own behalf or that what he was talking about would hurt me so deeply. He was really embarrassed by how tunnel-visioned he was about it all.
He did what he could to minimize contact with her and took it very seriously. When she left for a new job he was vastly relieved. It had been difficult to have her as a co-worker when every time he heard her voice he would have an involuntary response. He didn’t like it very much when he recognized that he had compromised his integrity in the slightest.
I didn’t ask for NC. It was impossible anyway. But I did tell him that if I had the slightest whiff of him lying to me by omission or commission I would respond accordingly.
YMMV.
Correction: mistress, not lover. To have a mistress means there is a spouse.
Lee, My husband attempted to go NC at least 3 times. Each time he was NC, I would discover he was back in contact when he started “finding” things about our marriage to pick apart and complain about. Like he was finding reasons why he *had* to be talking to her… highlighting problems that didn’t actually exist, or blowing minor things way out of proportion (you left the laundry on the couch so you obviously don’t love me!). His final attempt at NC started when I had a bit of a breakdown and told him I didn’t know how much longer I could hold on… I think the biggest detrimental factor for his failed NC was that he was literally stuck working next to her 40 hours a week. He was completely unable/unwilling to move to another shift if it meant not being around her. When he learned she was quitting the workplace, he was despondent. Finally made the move to day shift, now we have more time together but his mind just is not focused anymore. If she texts him, I can literally watch him completely zone out and disengage. He’s not physically seen her or heard her voice in weeks now, they’re down to just texting. This past week we went to a concert she was also attending. He was looking around for her everywhere while they texted so I asked him if she knew where we were and if she was coming over. He admitted he told her where we were standing and then remarked he hoped she didn’t come over, as it would be “too awkward”. Hmph.
“If she texts him, I can literally watch him completely zone out and disengage. He’s not physically seen her or heard her voice in weeks now, they’re down to just texting. This past week we went to a concert she was also attending. He was looking around for her everywhere while they texted so I asked him if she knew where we were and if she was coming over. He admitted he told her where we were standing and then remarked he hoped she didn’t come over, as it would be “too awkward”. Hmph.”
Sunshine – I’m really, really sorry. That is disrespect on a level that I would find intolerable. There is another web site that *I* think you might be better served reading but I don’t know if it would upset Dr. L. if I mentioned it. Tracy Schorn runs it.
Dr. L. – Please edit or remove this post if necessary.
Hi Lee,
Thanks for your caution, but I’m fine with mentioning Chumplady! I also agree that I would really question the motives of an action like that – what is being communicated by “I really have to tell her everything I’m doing, but I don’t want to have to explain myself in front of you”? Well, other than a lack of consideration of Sunshine’s feelings, naturally.
Re. comment policy: probably need to write a guide soon, but rule of thumb for now is “constructive advice for the commenters is the aim, which rarely involves attacks on people’s character.”
Lee- I appreciate the nudge to CL. I have browsed through some of the articles but it seems so… vitriolic. I’m not trying to hate on my husband, nor am I trying to ruin his life. I’m trying to understand what he’s going through, and be here for him the best I am able to. If it gets to a point where I feel it’s too detrimental to either my or my daughter’s emotional health, I will have to walk another path.
“Following this. I’m in a similar boat: wife of a man who refuses to go NC with his LO (he claims she’s his “best friend” and he would surely go crazy without her). It’s agonizing. I’m curious to see if you were able to get your SO to finally consent to go NC?”
It may take you down a path you don’t want to go but the next logical question to him is, “If that’s the way you feel, why are you still here?”
“Each time he was NC, I would discover he was back in contact when he started “finding” things about our marriage to pick apart and complain about. Like he was finding reasons why he *had* to be talking to her… highlighting problems that didn’t actually exist, or blowing minor things way out of proportion (you left the laundry on the couch so you obviously don’t love me!).”
I agree that marital problems can influence limerence. There were problems in my marriage when I encountered my last LO.
But, blaming you for his behavior is really bad sign that’s outside the scope of limerence. If you accept responsibility for his bad behavior, it’s a tacit admission of guilt and he’ll use it against you forever. Maybe not with this LO but it’s a weapon in his arsenal.
Is your failing to meet his expectations a new phenomenon with this LO or have you seen it before in other areas?
This is the first time we’ve encountered this. There was never any real discussion prior to his depression/attaching to the LO about issues in the marriage. Guess that would be a communication problem: he was bothered by something that didn’t necessarily bother me so much and was unaware of how to start a conversation about it. He would also “read into” things that were said, instead of asking for clarification.Add to that, we were also operating on very little time together due to opposite schedules, which was an issue we discussed (he was supposed to swap to day shift). He was extremely affectionate and loving towards me, early in the situation he was very remorseful and upset about his inability to keep away from her, each time I pressed for NC he became further and further removed from me. He has said on multiple occasions that he knows what issues we had weren’t solely my fault, he’s aware he shoulders blame there as well. The big thing I hear him repeat is he “just wants to be happy and not cry all the time”.
You should also be aware that he will find more and more faults with you and the marriage as the limerence progresses. It’s encouraging that he was remorseful at the start, but it does now sound as though he has slipped deeper into limerence and is devaluing you actively. That’s not uncommon, but it’s also not acceptable.
I bet you’d like to be happy too. Most people would. The key thing is that everyone needs to take responsibility for their own happiness. Being in an affectionate (if imperfect) marriage and then having a breakdown and suddenly becoming limerent for someone else is not an indication that the marriage was the problem. It’s an indication that your husband is looking for someone else to take responsibility for him, and this “amazingly supportive” colleague might just be the magical person who can fix his depression. Of course, she can’t, just like you (or anyone else) can’t.
It will be hard, but rather than trying to get him to go NC with LO, you might want to lay out to him the effect his behaviour is having on your family, and ask him to take responsibility for his own fate. He may not be reachable yet, but until he does face up to the fact that this is his problem to solve, you will drive yourself mad trying to second guess what’s wrong with him and what you could do to somehow solve this for him.
Sunshine,
I hope it works out. I’m leery of someone who keeps moving the goalposts on what you need to do to “make” him happy while absorbing himself of any responsibility for his actions. Plus he’s not telling you when he slips up, you’re catching him. At least that is what it sounds like.
“Do or do not, there is no try.”
Clearly you are “doing”. I hope he is too.
Sophie,
I think it’s time to see a professional. Go for yourself and see what he/she says. At some point, they may want to see your husband, too.
This is a great place but at some point, you need to call in the pros.
Correction – “absolving”.
Sunrise –
If I may ask, what ideas and actions for dealing with his limerence has your husband initiated without prompting by you? If you are the source of all the ideas or actions then he isn’t nearly as invested in the outcome.
Sorry, I meant Sunrise.
“The big thing I hear him repeat is he “just wants to be happy and not cry all the time”.”
Of course, he does. That’s not an altruistic statement. If you were happy and not crying all the time, all this would be easier on him. If he were truly interested in your happiness, he’d do what’s necessary to make it happen, even if it meant NC with the LO. It’s called “doing the right thing” even if it isn’t what you’d prefer to do. That’s about as selfish statement as you can get without flat out coming out and saying it.
People think doing the right thing is easy but it often isn’t. Doing the right thing often calls for foregoing what you want in the best interest of the person you care about. Relationships often require sacrifice (queue Elton John) but they NEVER demand sacrifice.
He wants the problem (i.e., your crying all the time) to go away.
“He wants the problem (i.e., your crying all the time) to go away.”
But if you stop crying or bringing it up, he will regard it as you accepting the situation so he gets everything and it costs him nothing.
I really hope that he is taking the situation seriously and blocks her number. Without any prompting by you. True contrition takes action and responsibility and does it without whining about his sacrifice.
I’ll keep my fingers crossed but if you haven’t taken steps to protect your finances yet, I hope you do so now.
Guys, I thought Sunrise’s comment was that the SO is tired of being unhappy and crying all the time. Being in a limerent state while married is can be exhausting. I was going to say it also isn’t fun, but the euphoric highs are fun in the moment, though harmful. The SO obviously doesn’t want to give that up. But what is happening to Sunrise is not acceptable.
Yes, I agree – I think you’ve got the wrong end of the stick, Scharnhorst and Lee.
It’s Sunrise’s husband that wants to “be happy and stop crying all the time.” The issue is that he seems to not recognise that it is the emotional conflict that he is mismanaging that is causing the tears. Not something that Sunrise can fix by changing her behaviour…
I think you’re correct, Thinker.
In addition, I suspect he’s crying, or telling her that he is crying, in order to minimize her pain as a result of his actions.
So yeah, what is happening to Sunrise is unacceptable all around.
Oops!
I’m “pacing” myself through this entire blog, so I haven’t made it this far. But I saw the recent comments and they struck a chord with me. Please know that I was the one in limerence, not my SO. And my experience did quickly evolve into mutual love with the LO, before other barriers were set up again (aside from the fact we each had families!) which sent me back into limerence.
From William: “Is this your SO’s first limerence experience? If so, he probably doesn’t realize how destructive the experience can be. In his mind, he probably thinks he’s in control of the situation. That’s only natural: the limerent brain is an expert at self-deception.”
This was my first limerence experience. I absolutely thought I could handle having a family and having a relationship with LO. I was wrong. I could not handle it, as some things are just a zero-sum game. More intimate attention to the LO meant less toward my family. But I rationalized it all in my mind. I even said to myself “this is not going to end well”.
From Sunrise: “Following this. I’m in a similar boat: wife of a man who refuses to go NC with his LO (he claims she’s his “best friend” and he would surely go crazy without her). It’s agonizing. I’m curious to see if you were able to get your SO to finally consent to go NC?”
I knew LO for a long time. We were good friends, and sometimes would dance into personal topics. And we would sometimes push the line, but overall I managed my attraction to her. I think in hindsight, I got my “fix” every week by talking to her or going to lunch (just the two of us) and being satisfied with that since we had separate lives and while something more might be nice, it was impossible. My SO knew of her as a good friend of mine, and I wanted the four of us as two couples to become friends or do things together, but my wife and I are 10-12 years older than them and other differences in interests plus kid stuff made it tough to set up.
When LO left my workplace last spring, I had a complete meltdown. I had no idea how I was going to get my “fix” going forward, as this was someone I had become very attached to. I revealed to my SO that LO was leaving the office but I wanted to stay in touch with her. My SO (VERY RELUCTANTLY) agreed that I could engage in an outside of work weekly activity (that my SO was not interested in) with LO for a period of time. My SO knew that I was “good friends” with LO, and my SO felt threatened (as she should have been, though I dismissed the seriousness of her concern, though inside I generally agreed with SO). I’d say “What do you mean, married men can’t be friends with women?” My SO would basically say “Yes, that’s not appropriate.” The LO did not have any issues the other way with her spouse, but humans are not all wired the same. In actuality, the uncertainty of the future with LO drove me mad. I was going to fight against NC tooth and nail. I felt there was no other way for me to survive. I felt so much relief that I would remain in contact, and was thankful to SO for her agreement. And I would have resented SO had I given in. Officially, I never disclosed to my SO, but my SO felt the impact of LO in the months that followed as LO and I became WAY TOO CLOSE.
More for a later time. Sunrise, I wish you strength. I am also summoning my own strength during my initial NC period. Coming to this blog is helping.
Thinker, thank you. I had been cheated on in prior relationships, and for the life of me I couldn’t figure out *why* this experience felt so much different. Reading this blog as well as other articles on limerence really made things click. My husband didn’t meet his LO until he had a complete emotional breakdown at his workplace (we were going on nearly 6 months of limited contact due to opposite work schedules, and he was already exhibiting signs of depression by this time)- she was the one who was there at work to “pick him up”. Within a two week period he went from not knowing her to “best friend”. I think, had she been someone he had known and been friends with PRIOR to our relationship, I wouldn’t have reacted so badly. But fact was he had no true friends here aside from me, and had only been “work friends” with 3 other people before she entered the picture- people I had encouraged him to go out to eat with, hang out with, etc.
We had multiple discussions about the situation after I found out how close he was becoming with her. At one point he asked me to trust in him to make the right choices even though he seemed to keep making the wrong turns. I trusted him with my life, my heart- but all the trust in the world doesn’t help that gut-wrenching feeling that sinks in when you see the way your spouse is reacting to texts from another woman. I asked him at one point to allow me to be part of their friendship, to ease my discomfort with this situation but his response was to cry and tell me that if he did, their friendship would no longer be “special”. After that I put the kibosh on him having the weekly dinners he was having with his LO after she quit the workplace (told him he would have to be out of the house within a month if he were to continue, as I consider having intimate dinners without your spouse to be dating. His idea of a “date” is, according to him: arriving & leaving together in the same vehicle, paying on one cheque, and having sex at the end of the evening”. I told him no, that’s what WE do, because we are married.). While on one hand I want him to be able to hang out with friends… well, there’s healthy friendships, and unhealthy friendships. SO’s LO is, to me, firmly in the “unhealthy friendship” category. I can’t wait for this roller coaster ride to be over- I don’t feel we can properly assess the extent of the damage done or the state of our marriage while he’s reacting on pure emotion.
When LO announced her exit from my workplace, I desperately wanted to arrange plans to get together as couples; some kind of future contact that I could look forward to. Almost everything my SO and I did socially involved couples, so it wouldn’t seem that odd to try to meet LO as couples. But it was really the LO and I that had the common interests, as the things we each did as married couples weren’t that similar. I stopped fighting to meet as couples when my SO gave in to my NEED to keep in contact. Though my LO also wanted to keep in touch with me; I just did not know how much she meant it until we actually did connect way more than we did when we worked together. I was very surprised at how much closer (intimate) you can become with somebody you have known for a while even after placing physical distance between you (the power of text/phone). The obsessive habit of checking email and letting the other know what you are up to: “I have 15 minutes if you want to talk” kind of stuff. It felt good but was overwhelming, and it felt impossible to give it up.
Yeah, a meal with a person who is a sexual candidate but SO isn’t invited or welcome is a date.
I didn’t choose no contact; my LO did after a blow-up when it became clear the relationship was only hurting both of us. It was brutally hard, but I knew it was the right choice.
Several big turning points for me were realizing: 1) I need to identify what I’m missing in my life that he symbolizes, and make those things happen, 2) realizing that his opinion of me no longer mattered–and never should have–my opinion of me is all that counts. 3) whatever is going on in front of my nose is probably more pleasant than what is going on in my head; be present! And 4) was more a habit tweak, but had dramatically positive effects:
I’m a champion ruminator and will go over memories ad-friggin-nauseum, especially positive ones. I used to spend hours remembering every moment we’d spent together. One night I finally got so fed up with myself I started yelling at myself in my head, “He’s not there! It’s over! He’s gone! Wherever you remember him, right this second he is not there anymore!” and then I started thinking of every place I had a memory of him, and literally imagining it without him. The park–empty. The mountainside–deserted. The ski lift–no one there. His storage unit–cleaned out. His room–empty, abandoned, cleaned out, no furniture, repainted, nothing but dust bunnies and sunbeams. I could go there and hang out, but he wasn’t there anymore. There was nothing there for me.
It sounds silly even to me, but it worked amazingly well!! It literally started to extinguish the pleasure I was getting from ruminating on memories, which felt like a bloody miracle by that point. And it was easy to maintain after that, perhaps because it was such a relief.
Soooo going to try this.
Thanks Whitney (and Mia for reviving this older comment). I kind of needed something like this. I had yelled at myself a few times about how bloody stupid and illogical my limerent ruminations are. I haven’t done it in a while, and I think it’s time to start doing it again because it definitely helped in the past (that and writing a paragraph to myself on the stupidity of my limerent ruminations seemed to help). I am getting pretty bad again about thinking about my LO, the night I met her, my interactions with her on Facebook and the times when I thought I might have seen her. She is gone and no longer in my life. While our paths may cross again some day, she was just a random stranger I met in a bar and I may never see her again as long as I live. She possibly hardly remembers me by now, and she very well could be dating someone at this point.
Most of all, I ruminate FAR TOO MUCH about what I would say to my LO if I ever ran into her. It needs to stop, and I have to be prepared to keep it relatively light if I ever do see her (declarations of my undying love (obviously an exaggeration) likely wouldn’t go down well at all since I’m a married man and she never really showed me any interest). Even if my marriage does end some day and we could theoretically be together, the chances of that ever happening are slim to none, so I simply have to stop wasting so much energy thinking of that. Better to focus on self-improvement and what I am going to do about my marriage. In many ways, thinking about my LO is a distraction from the hard work and unpleasantness I know is ahead of me as I finally try to figure out what to do about my marriage, family life, job and career. The problem is that a reunion with my LO could actually happen. My new friends want me to go to the pub where I met my LO sometime. I am really not ready for that, but it could happen, even elsewhere because most of them live in the next town where my LO lives and I am assuming my LO must go to other places sometimes as well. I have to stop obsessing over a possible future meeting while also developing a reasonable approach to determining what I would say if it does happen. As Scharnhorst once said, I don’t want her to lose respect for me. Saying too much would make her lose respect for me (if she still has any), but simply sticking to small talk just doesn’t seem appropriate either, given what transpired among her, my brother in-law and me this past winter. I at least want her to know that I think highly of her and was pulling for her with my brother in-law.
Same here VL…my ruminating has got a bit out of hand again. I used to practice a few meditations and re-programming techniques to keep it at a manageable level but I’ve just not felt like doing that of late. Thanks Mia and VL for the reminder that I must put much more effort into my mind mastery! Starting right now.
@ Allie: Limerent rumination is a tricky one. It can be a source of pleasure, but it tends to dominate one’s life if you allow it to. I also think it becomes more pain than pleasure when the limerence is unrequited (as mine and yours is). I am again finding it is affecting my work performance and that really worries me. It also doesn’t help my attempts to transform my marriage and life. Therefore, I have to cut way back. All the best to you in your struggle to reclaim your thoughts. At least we are all here for one another!
Before or after you get rid of the canoe?
The canoe has to go?
Why? Isn’t it normal to have a huge canoe next to your bed, not intending to ever use ?
😄
How big is the canoe? How big are you,Mia? Could you get rid of the bed and sleep in the canoe?
This canoe story is so funny Mia!! 😅 Though we all know it’s a serious challenge for you to get rid of it! How can we have such a contrast between our rational brain and our limerent one??
Mia,
Maybe you should christen it, like a battleship. You could call it “Mia’s Folly” or even better, paint your LO’s name on it and pretend to whack him between the eyes with a bottle of champagne.
Messy but cathartic!
@ Mia: I would love a canoe and would gladly take it off your hands (and have the space to store it), but transporting it all that distance would be a challenge!
VI,
‘I would love a canoe…’
Would that be an example of Limerent transference that Dr. L has mentioned in the past?
When I’m ready, in 100 years I will burn it and dance around it…
Talking about the length we go in limerence, I’m still doing it.. I catch myself..
This week I want to launch a you tube channel on self care, so now there is not only a canoe in my bedroom but also a small studio with lights and background.
Guess who I want to ask to do the editing…
Waaaah!
Not sure I mentioned the 26 plants I have in my livingroom because I started a plant orphanage.
Let’s call it ” inspired” by Los love of nature.
@ Thomas: How is it transference for me (not being critical, just legitimately curious)? Are you saying the canoe is a big phallic symbol, did you think it was some way I could impress my LO, or is it a way of keeping myself busy to keep my mind off my LO? I have always liked canoeing and kayaking (although I never seriously got into either), but I don’t think my LO is into that type of thing at all. She likes some things I do (pubs, certain types of music, dogs), but I also know she’s into a sport I am not that keen on. I am not about to pretend to be a fan of that sport just to try to impress her, although if the local professional team is doing well, I will sometimes jump on the bandwagon (perhaps some people might be surprised by that). On the other hand, things would be completely different if I was in a position to date my LO and she wanted to catch a game with me!
Hi VI,
Through my dark mood today it was a bit of silliness. Just the idea of one limerent transferring property to another. Like an LE swap shop. 🙂
Though tbf I’m not above distracting myself with the odd ‘canoe’ should a suitable one come floating along.
I’ve actually been online dating with some associated shenanigans and thought it going rather well till LO suddenly burst back into my thoughts. Mid-date in fact. I’m nothing if not a catch. It’s that irrational line of reasoning….
‘Now I’ve proven how over all this I am surely i should contact LO so we can just go back to being friends?’ Because that’s worked out every time we’ve tried. Clearly. I think that the fact that this thought occurred mid G&T with a charming, available, mature, date sat right in front of me indicates it’s probably not a rational opinion. I also think that being upset about stupid LO at a time like that is stupid and I’m stupid… and I’m annoyed.
I’m going for an annoyed walk. 😀
Had a day ruined by miserable remorseful rumination yesterday. It’s beginning of week 6 NC…
Lots of misplaced remorse and heartache. Painful.
I’m sorry Thomas, I also think sometimes that my limerence refuses to die.
It needs a lot of time,
More time than we want to give it, but that doesn’t mean there is no progress.
6 weeks !
Thank you Mia. I think it’s the first time I’ve really really felt like cracking. But so good to have a place to vent.
That’s why I’m not dating, I wish I was ready to speed up this LE getting over, but I m not ready I would compare everyone to LO and become more sad.
I’m bargaining all day to yes or no to be LO s friend. Sometimes I even think it’s a really good idea! 🤦🏼♀️
What if LO was a friend at work whose primary job at said place of work was to organize files, which involves handwriting on literally hundreds of file boxes the names of certain files, etc. ? When LO leaves this job, a reminder of her will be here for YEARS to come. Her handwriting is literally all over the office. I am scared to death of this. That day will come. I will never see her again, I will have NC finally, but that handwriting will be there as a constant and painful reminder of her. And her handwriting is one of the many things I love about her.
But your 1 through 3 sound doable. I’ll try those. I just don’t think 4 will work for me.
This is what happened to me B. LO reminders were everywhere at work after she left. I took a bin bag to her desk and threw away all her pens, books, files, food, shoes… you name it, anything I could find. I deleted any reference to her and got IT to disable her profile so it took away her picture on docs, posts etc. But her name still pops up every now and again on something. It’s actually a nice recovery barometer though. First few months made you feel sick, 6 months ok, 12 very little reaction, 18m a little smile. That’s how it’s gone for me.
I kept one thing. I’d bought her a birthday present and she left part of it on her desk when she left. I was really upset that she didn’t take it, but actually I think she hoped I’d see it. So I put it in my drawer and it’s stayed there ever since. I don’t know why I did that, but I did.
Funny you mention keeping a memento. I have a huge problem with this. And I mean huge. I have kept the most trivial things. The biggest storage cache is on my phone of course. Another poster on here, Fred, I think it was, once said something about habitually doing this. Creating sort of a “shrine” to LO. It’s so messed up. I don’t ever see myself getting rid of my shrine, especially after she leaves. I would need to feel anger toward LO in order to bring myself to do that, which reminds me of our recent discussion on here about giving LO an angry goodbye letter. Something to scorch the earth just before going NC. Only then maybe I could get rid of that stuff.
I put all images, archived chats etc. onto an external drive and hid them somewhere discreet at my parents’ house.
That way I know they exist, and I will deal with them at some point, but they are not on my phone. Last night I was thoroughly miserable and would have done anything to scroll through some pictures of me & LO…
But I couldn’t. Still feel rotten but I know I’ve got to ride through this.
Feeling teary today. :/
@Thomas
Yeah, I too keep my photos of LO in a remote folder in my hard drive. That way, I don’t have the feeling of loss that actually getting rid of them would cause, but I won’t fall in the temptation of looking them up either.
Sad to hear that you’re on a rough patch, man. Hope you get out of it soon.
Thanks Benjamin,
Nice to have this space. Nice to be acknowledged, and wished well.
I can relate to the dog example. Every time my phone would ding, I would immediately think “LO!” . It reached the point I could sense which dings were texts from him and which weren’t ,even before I looked at my screen. Since I went NC,the sound of a text being delivered doesn’t excite me anymore and it’s as if I’m not interested in texting all together cause I know even when I get a reply it won’t be as rewarding as a text from LO.
I gave LO his own ringtone before NC , still when I hear that ringtone somewhere I freak.
To reverse the conditioning I made myself listen to it 50.0000 times.
Helped a little. 😀
My only issue with this is that my brain seems to develop new reverie scenarios, even after cataloging and rewriting the old ones.
I’m surprised how so many people have shared their limerence issue with their SOs. For me, it’s this shameful secret I keep from my wife. I couldn’t imagine the stress in my marriage were I to divulge that I have obsessive, intrusive thoughts about a 25-year old coworker I almost never spoke with and haven’t seen in a year, and that I follow her on social media to the point where I have pictures of her hidden on my computer. I’m ashamed of this and this site is the only place I have ever mentioned my secret.
All SO’s are different, and all have different expectations of marriage e.g. we both expected that one or both of us would be attracted to, or even become infatuated with, another person at some point during the rest of our lives.
I was very nervous about telling my SO but he was great – he just accepted it and has been very supportive. I framed it very carefully when I told him – the addiction angle worked well with my SO…he has experienced addiction so understands that the addiction drives the intrusive thoughts which in turn fuels the addiction. It helps that my SO trusts me to always be honest and my telling him only enhanced his trust. I was apologetic, I gave him lots of affection and reassurance, I don’t ever give him more detail than he needs and I don’t talk about it often. I certainly never say anything especially nice about LO to my SO or compare them. Sometimes, my SO even asks me how my day at work was with a cheeky grin and a wink! (LO is my boss)
It must be said, LEs are far easier to manage when you have your SO in your corner. I do not feel any shame…I may have unintentionally fallen for another man, but I have been honest, respectful and loving with my SO throughout.
I had no choice but to tell my wife. I wasn’t myself at all for an entire month and she knew something was up. She also knew I REALLY liked my LO (although she had no idea just how much I liked her). As mentioned before, my brother in-law and I met my LO one night at a pub. She really liked him, although the three of us got along very well and had a nice evening chatting. The problem was when my BIL started becoming quite lukewarm towards my LO after the fact. He is the type of person who asks for advice all the time and is somewhat lacking in confidence deep down (although you wouldn’t know it to meet him). I gave him some unsolicited advice and basically told him he would be a fool to let my LO slip through his fingers. I told him how awesome I thought she was and confided that if I wasn’t married to his sister that I would be totally into my LO myself. He just grinned when I said that. I also told my wife and mother in-law just how highly I thought of my LO.
So, my wife kind of had an idea, but my insomnia, restlessness, lack of focus and attention, lack of appetite, pacing, irritability and enhanced focus on working out, going for long walks and hanging out at the mall told her something was really up. She demanded to know exactly what was bothering me, so I told her. It has been a mixed bag in terms of her reaction. Knowing what I know now, would I tell her again? Probably, because the weight being lifted off my shoulders really helped, even though it caused my wife some hurt and upset, and we have fought about it many times. However, every person and every relationship is different. Results may vary.