Most of the correspondence I receive falls into one of two popular categories: “I’m limerent but don’t want to be” or “My spouse is limerent for someone else, what do I do?” Every now and again, though, I receive an email that reveals a new aspect of limerence, and helps cast some light on the shadier sides of the condition.
Today’s example comes from Gina, who has the following dilemma:
I found your site after I realized I was getting totally batsh-t about my new boyfriend. I’m 19 and he’s 26, and the basic problem is I’m limerent but he’s not. We’ve been together for nearly six months and it started as hook ups that got more serious, and the whole time I feel like I’ve been trying to hide my obsession so I don’t scare him off but now I’m going crazy with the fact that I want him to feel the same as me. He’s not doing anything wrong, he’s just so chill that I feel like he doesn’t care enough, you know? Its eating me up that he isn’t having limerence for me. I know its unhealthy how obsessed I am, but I want him to be the same. I want a totally f-cked up level of attention like he’s hooked on me like a drug.
Mutual mania is what Gina wants.
“I can’t keep faking the casual girlfriend vibe much longer. I’ve started trying to make him jealous so that he’ll lose his sh-t and prove that he wants me. I know I’m sabotaging something good, but I’m not even sure anymore if I want good. I want to be his LO.
Quite a psychological tangle, there, for Gina.
Casual isn’t for everyone
It seems from Gina’s story that the problems started with the decision to pretend that she felt as little about the connection as her boyfriend apparently did – that “casual” suited her fine, when it didn’t.
I admit to being a bit out of touch about modern dating habits, but it does seem to be a trend these days that relationships start at a recreational level, where casual hook ups are the norm. Wanting deep intimacy, bonding, and sexual exclusivity is seen as a bit possessive and uncool. That not being “chill” with this culture is a sign of immaturity.
The problem is, if you are not OK with that casual level of attachment, then faking it – as Gina has attempted – is deranging. You don’t, in fact, alter your personality and temperament to successfully fit in, you just suppress your true feelings until they burst out in other, nastier ways.
Trying to deny your own desires because you think they don’t align with your LO’s expectations is foolhardy. Not only are you forcing yourself into an emotional straitjacket, you aren’t ever going to get relief. Because they think everything is fine.
Honesty is powerful
Most of us instinctively keep our romantic cards close to our chests. Limerents, in particular, sense that their mad obsession is so over the top that they’d better hide it. It’s interesting to me that Gina is young, but has already internalised this lesson. The downside to this attitude is what might be called the tragedy of the masked ball – neither of you really knows who you are dancing with.
You make assumptions about his expectations based on his apparently chill demeanor, and falsify your own preferences in an attempt to adapt to that imagined scenario. For all you know, you are both adopting a persona that you think the other person wants to date.
The only way out of this dilemma is to take off the mask. Be honest with yourself about what you actually want out of a relationship, and be honest with him too.
Now, there is some diplomacy needed, admittedly. I wouldn’t advocate uncritical transparency…
I want you to be so lovestruck that you lose your mind, ravish me with the passion of insatiable desire, and admit that your only motivation in life is to cleave to me.
…but, as Gina is finding, if you adopt the false role of “chill” girlfriend when you in fact want to be a “withdraw from the world and luxuriate in mutual infatuation” girlfriend, you end up in a trap of your own fakery.
Honesty also allows you to escape the worst trap of all…
Don’t mess with other people’s emotions
Deliberately making someone else jealous just so you can satisfy a dark urge in yourself is crappy behaviour. It can also backfire badly if they realise they are being manipulated. I think Gina knows this, and I think that’s why she started searching about obsessive love and ended up here at LwL.
It is also important to acknowledge that what seems appealing as a dark fantasy can be very different in reality. Again, Gina clearly has the intuition that the mutual obsession she craves is unhealthy. In fantasies, the insanely besotted suitor chases right up until the point that the heroine is gratified. Then, they magically stop being obsessed and calm down again.
In reality, obsession in a partner cannot be so easily regulated, and can be a lot more disturbing. Just looking at Gina’s own situation, her obsession, mishandled, has led to her deliberately provoking jealousy in her boyfriend. Pretty unpleasant for him. The same principles could apply if she actually was an LO for an obsessive limerent – they might express that mania in ways that are properly scary.
Ultimately, dealing with these sorts of dark desires is all about self-awareness. Some impulses should be resisted, but that doesn’t mean they should be denied. You have to make peace with your shadow – with the parts of your subconscious that frighten you. The sweet spot is to moderate those impulses that could be destructive, while finding safe ways to allow them some indulgence.
Be true to yourself, but keep your impulses in check. Fantasies can be indulged in a healthy relationship, but are a bad foundation for finding a long-term partner.
In summary, my instinct is that Gina’s frustration is coming from concealing her true feelings and desires, and so the shadowy parts of her subconscious are rebelling and conjuring up dark fantasies. I might be way off, but whatever the underlying cause, being honest with herself and her boyfriend is the best hope for diffusing the emotional bomb.
At some point, in any relationship that has a hope of lasting, you have to be transparent about who you really are, what you really want, and risk the disappointment that your desires might not match your partner’s neatly. The limerent impulse to do whatever it takes to make LO like you is ultimately doomed to failure if it is masking an incompatibility that will reveal itself later.
Managing the transition from infatuation, through mutual discovery, and into lasting love is the real challenge of a long-term relationship.
I think mutual limerence is a common desire/fantasy for most limerents. But it’s pretty hard to find. What I think is more common (if feelings are reciprocal, this is) is limerence on one side and interest on the other.
In the beginning, the limerent feels like he hit the lottery. The LO is interested and something is actually happening beyond making goo-goo eyes at each other. They’re hooking up or going on dates or are actually in a relationship.
But, yes, over time the limerent most definitely notices the discrepancy in feelings. In a way, it feels like a bitch-slap from the Universe. He’s not getting the whole 9 but maybe a 6.5. It’s so close, but not close enough.
So, yes, the LW should tell the boyfriend (maybe not in too much detail :)) how she feels about him and what she needs from him. She’s calling him a boyfriend. They’ve transitioned from hooking up to boyfriend/girlfriend. That’s a good sign. It would be different if it was 6 months of just hooking up. Then I’d say he’s happy with what they had. And having a “dtr” (“define the relationship”) talk would probably implode the whole thing.
I have to say that once i learned about limerence I didn’t want my LO to be limerent for me. I wanted her to be madly in love with me, sure, but not for her to have this involuntary, debilitating disorder. It’s deeply unpleasant at times and if you truly love someone you wouldn’t want to afflict something like this on them.
Now maybe Gina is using limerence as a catch-all expression for that giddy early stage romantic love, where you think about that person all the time and can’t wait to see them. If so, and her boyfriend doesn’t seem to be in that place, then I think it’s better to discuss how he feels sooner rather than later. It maybe that he does feel similarly but is less demonstrative, or maybe he’s not that into her. If it’s the latter then better to know now and move on.
I’m with you, Vincent. I wouldn’t wish limerence on anyone. When my LO3 disclosed his attraction to me, I committed myself to be very responsive to all correspondence with him. I thought my exaggerated availability might eliminate the uncertainty and minimize his chances of developing limerence. I can’t say if it worked because I can’t speak for him. Time will tell. I can say that his constant availability makes this LE far more pleasant than my last LE.
Yeah if there’s one thing an LE does give you, it’s a heightened sensitivity to how words and actions have an affect on other people. Obviously initially that is us watching LO for signs they like us and over analysing everything they say or do, but it should also make you more aware of yourself and your own actions.
Having learned so much about myself such as my self esteem, attachment style, introversion etc I can see it more in others and have more sympathy towards their choices as a result. That feels like a good thing at least.
I’m impressed with your self awareness, Vincent. I couldn’t agree with you more.
“I have to say that once i learned about limerence I didn’t want my LO to be limerent for me. I wanted her to be madly in love with me, sure, but not for her to have this involuntary, debilitating disorder. It’s deeply unpleasant at times and if you truly love someone you wouldn’t want to afflict something like this on them.”
@Vincent.
I have kind of reached the same conclusion. 😇
*Raises hand* I was that guy in a relationship that Gina is describing. Back in my 20s I started casually dating this girl. She was attractive and fairly cool, and enjoyed spending time with her, but it was apparent early on she was really into me and to be honest, that sort of cooled my desire for her. I liked her OK both sexually and relationally but was never limerent for her and quite honestly I always kind of knew she was a place holder girlfriend until I did find someone I was more head over heals for.
The lack of pursuit or her not playing hard to get was a bit of a turn off for me. She just felt more needy of me than I liked. If courting her had been harder and I might have been more infactuated with her. In time, about 6 months, the relationship interest fizzled for me and I ended it. She was upset and she actually did a good job of distancing from me, and actually met her husband a few months later. Glad that happened.
For me, my only LE experiences (I am on #3 right now) are with women who have a level of romantic wishy-washyness with me and the uncertainty grips me and I become bad limerent.
Why is playing hard to get a turn on for you?
I don’t think limerence is the real issue here.
He’s 26 and she’s 19. I was 32 when I met my wife and she was a week shy of 23. I thought long and hard about the age difference before asking her to marry me.
As DrL points out, Gina’s playing a dangerous game. Just because Gina’s BF isn’t responding doesn’t mean he’s not noticing. If he has a limit and she crosses it, he could summarily dismiss her. No negotiation, no discussion, maybe not even a face-to-face goodbye. Why put up with crap from a high maintenance woman when there are women out there who aren’t? All he has to do is meet one and he may say to himself, “I’ve had enough.” Think of the rumination that would bring on.
I disagree with Marcia on “And having a “dtr” (“define the relationship”) talk would probably implode the whole thing.” Some things are worth pushing. If it implodes, better to find out sooner than later. I’ve one one of those in my life and a woman had one over me. The first determined if I’d invest in the relationship and the outcome of the second was the woman was engaged the next time we talked.
But, in both cases, I got answers that I could work with.
“I disagree with Marcia on “And having a “dtr” (“define the relationship”) talk would probably implode the whole thing.” ”
I wrote the “dtr” may implode it IF things were still casual between them and she made it clear she wanted more. Then, yes, the “dtr” usually implodes what little is going on.
But who knows? The “dtr” could still implode things if it’s clear after the conversation that what he’s giving is as much as he wants to or is willing to and she wants him to be more “all in” and he never will be.
Idk. I thought about it some more. The “dtr” imploded … I’m not sure what to call it … a “we’re exclusive but you’re not my boyfriend” situationship I had … and I regret having the conversation. He was an LO. It was some of the hottest sex I’d ever had. I haven’t dated an LO or had that kind of sex since. I kind of wish I had ridden the train a bit longer. 🙂
Marcia,
Who started that conversation?
It seems pretty normal to try to understand the boundaries of an FWB situation. It also can set the level of effort you put into it.
It’s why I initiated it with LO #2.
LE,
I started the conversation. The person who wants more usually does. 🙂
Depending on how you define an FWB, it wasn’t one. I think of an FWB as someone you’re basically just sleeping with. We were dating. We spent time together doing things. Called, texted, etc. Saw each other every weekend. We weren’t sleeping with other people or dating other people. But as his freind told me, this guy didn’t “do serious.” It felt too casual for me. I wanted him to call me more than once a week. I really don’t think he was cruising for other people. I think that’s all he needed. I think he was an avoidant. For what I’ve heard (and he’s now well into middle age like me), he’s never married.
But he was sexy avoidant who knew how to lay it down. 🙂
Marcia,
It almost sounds like you loved this guy.
LE,
“It almost sounds like you loved this guy.”
I was limerent for him. I don’t think I knew him well enough to love him. But I was very disappointed when things didn’t progress. Crushed, really.
But he confused me. We were actually going on dates. We weren’t just hooking up. I’m pretty black and white about dating. You’re either hooking up 45 minutes a week at the Motel 6 or you’re dating to see if you’re going to be in a serious relationship. But he taught me there is what I now call the “bulls**t in between.” The gray zone. He wanted the friendship and the caring and the compassion and the companionship and the sex, of course … on his terms and his time. About a one day a week.
This was a lesson I never needed to learn. 🙂
Marcia,
If he had said, “I love you,” would you have said it back to him?
I’ve said “I love you” to 3 women.
Two of them said it back. It hurts if they don’t.
LE,
“If he had said, “I love you,” would you have said it back to him?”
Yes, but I was limerent for him. It would have been all those “in love” chemicals talking.
I dated another LO who did tell me he loved me. But by then the limerence had died down and I told I did because I kind of felt pressured. But I don’t think I did. I had been limerent/in love. But I don’t know that I loved him, which to me is the second phase once you get to know someone. And when I got to know him, I’m not even sure I liked him. And I no longer wanted to be with him.
I hope we gave Gina some things to think about.
I’ve been thinking more about this.
As bad as it is to tell someone that you love them and they don’t say it back, it’s worse when they say it back and you later come to realize that they really don’t and likely never did.
Then you feel hurt AND stupid.
He was actually very intuitive. He didn’t believe me when I said it. Said as much. I won’t go into the whole story, but the relationship was pretty screwed up. And when I broke it off with him, I’m sure he just moved his backburner girl to the front burner. I didn’t just suspect she existed. I met her. I had been one myself. It’s not as if someone telling you they love you in a situation like that means much. Again, once the limerence fog cleared, I thought : What am I doing?
I wonder if wanting someone to be limerent for you is a safety thing. As in, if the feelings are that intense, then they won’t – in fact can’t – leave me. This would be especially potent for people with attachment issues. It is a misguided thought, in that 1) one does not want someone to be with you involuntarily, you want them to choose to be with you, and 2) limerence does not last, so your temporary safety net is only going to be there at most for a couple of years.
Then, limerence too is a power dynamic. The LO has lots of power over the limerent. Maybe some people do not want to be in a position of lesser power. Mutual limerence would make them more “equal” partners as such.
I’m glad Dr L brought up the shadow. One nuance people tend to miss because of the negative and dark connotations of “shadow” is that shadow traits that we deny are negative emotions. Actually, they are any thing we deny, even positive emotions. There are two ways to identify your shadow: they are in people that irritate and evoke strong dislike in you (their traits are your shadows); and they are in people that you OVERVALUE (the wonderful things you see or imagine in them are also your shadow selves that you have denied). Put in the context of limerence, our LOs who we overvalue irrationally, are in fact very useful personas to help us discover what we are denying in ourselves.
In Gina’s case though, it may be more that her shadow here is to deny her love for her bf. The strength of her love, her desire for connection and commitment are denied. The good news is that she has somewhat recognized them in herself. The bad news is that she has not disclosed to her LO (if there is ever a case for disclosure, perhaps it is here!)
I agree it is all about power. I, too wish my LO was limerent for me. BUT it doesn’t mean I would accept to enter a relationship with my LO, I just want him to feel it to regain my power as the imbalance is too great at the moment.
I wish it was temporary as you mentioned, I am going 15 years strong on my LO, we are NC and don’t even live on the same continent, but it is the idea of what we could have been that I am obsessive about.
That power imbalance is the same reason why I would never send a message directly, I need to have some dignity at least and not give all my power away.
Something I haven’t seen explored is when all the rest in your life seems to go bad, you can remember the thrill and it is like a comforting drug, but it is when everything is going bad that the “what ifs” are the hardest.
Finally, I reached the conclusion that I could only be ok in a marital type of relationship where at least there is some form of commitment from both sides.
I am desperate for LO to become limerent for me, and sometimes I think he is, but has far more self-control. Others I think I’ve lost him, either because he’s realised he’s obsessed with me, or he’s realised I’m obsessed with him!
I think this desire for attention stems from childhood (for me). I never felt noticed or loved or worthy enough, so I developed unhealthy ways to foster that in people. I crave attention even though outwardly I appear to be a confident, self-assured woman.
Secondly, and this is something I am just coming to realise, I know that if I had solid proof that he was limerent, if he actually started to act like he was madly in love with me and couldn’t live without me, and if I knew I was constantly on his mind like his is mine, it would lessen my own Limerence, therefore making it easier for me to turn away from him. I don’t know why this is. Something to do with the thrill of the chase I suppose, but you’d think if this was my heart’s desire, I would be overjoyed! I want to be adored by him but it would soon turn me off.
Why would anyone want to go through this torture for months, years, only to then drop LO when they turn the tables? Is it about winning? Adrenaline? A learned response? Gina’s situation sounds a lot like my first LO (who often become SO’s for me), and I was stuck in that for 4 years, 2 I was limerent for him, 1 we were happy, normal, and the last I was desperately unhappy because I was suffocating from his obsession with me.