I’ve spent this week working on a new post on the neuroscience of how limerence fades, drawing on the literature of habituation and hedonic adaptation, but if I’m honest it’s been a bit of a slog.
Then, out of the blue, I had one of those days where coincidences (or synchronicity?) seemed to be trying to tell me something.
Like many people, I’m signed up to a lot of email newsletters (which vary in quality), but one of the good ones is from Mel Robbins. In the latest email she talked about languishing, and it really hit home.
Purposeful living is the guiding principle of this blog and the most useful mindset I’ve discovered so far for managing limerence and generally improving the quality of my life and relationships. The last couple of years have been testing, though.
The definition of languishing that Mel used is this:
You’re tired and overwhelmed by everything you have to manage in your life. You’re not getting out like you used to, and your habits are all over the place… these past years of stress, loss, change, and uncertainty have thrown your nervous system into a state of fight, flight, or freeze.
Now Mel was talking in general terms about how the last few years have affected everyone, but it hit home for me given my recent trials, and how they have disrupted a purposeful start to my year. I know there are good reasons for why I am feeling emotionally battered and less purposeful than usual, but it immediately struck me how difficult it is to escape the trap of languishing.
The problems of languishing are complex and compounding, and there are many intersections with limerence. So, I’m going to put off the neurophysiology of learned suppression of desire till next week, and spend some time pondering about languishing instead.
What is languishing?
I’d define it as a state of feeling restless and unhappy with the status quo, but stuck and unclear on how to improve things. That leads to tiredness, a lack of motivation, and the tendency to respond to the stress of overwhelm by escaping into easy pleasures (like social media). It also means a low threshold for giving up on difficult tasks, followed by anxiety about how you aren’t making progress. You could probably also add a dash of disgust about your own inaction.
I hear from a fair number of limerents in this state. They enjoyed the intoxicating thrills of a new limerent episode, but then toppled over into a debilitating post-euphoria hangover of persistent, toxic infatuation. When these folks encounter the concept of purposeful living, they grasp the logic of the idea, but struggle to muster enough energy or direction to start taking action. Instead, they languish in a fog of frazzled nerves, free-floating anxiety and suffocating inaction.
Languishing, by its nature, works against purposeful living, because just functioning seems enough of an effort. Forging a new life out of the wreckage of limerence seems an impossible ask.
Languishing makes you prone to limerence
I’ve written before about the perils of drifting through life, and how inattention about what you’re doing or where you’re going makes you vulnerable to limerence. If you are languishing, the situation is even more perilous.
Someone caught in a trap of low mood, low motivation and hopelessness will devour limerence with the urgency of a metabolism-hacking Influencer coming off a 48 hour fast.
Languishing stresses other relationships
I talked earlier about synchronicity, and while I was struggling with my writing and pondering the trap of languishing, Lost in Space left a comment on another post about his relationship with his wife:
I want her to be healthy and active with me long term and not get sick or die before me… yet her actions every day show me that she cares more about eating junk food, drinking sugary drinks and watching many hours of tv every day than she does about staying healthy and fit. Right or wrong, it does make me feel that she cares less about me as a man and as her husband, and that she takes me for granted and doesn’t feel a need to put in even moderate amounts of effort.
I love my wife very much, and I love her no matter what her body looks likes. And if I had to choose, I’d prefer to live with an obese but happy wife than a fit but unhappy wife, if those were truly my only two choices. But I do really struggle to understand why she can’t commit to basic self-care when she knows it’s important for herself, to me, and to our shared future.
It sounds like Lost in Space’s wife is languishing. When asked, she admits that she prefers fit men, and I’d bet money that if you asked her “do you wish you could be more disciplined and eat better and stay fitter?” she would say yes. Not many people make a purposeful choice to eat junk food and watch hours of TV.
No doubt there will be plenty of keyboard warriors ready to find fault with Lost in Space’s concerns, but there is a blunt reality to the fact that relationships thrive when people’s goals, values and beliefs are aligned. At minimum, they need to be compatible.
Emotional affairs often begin with oversharing about problems in a marriage.
How to stop languishing and take action
I’m taking a fairly unsympathetic approach to this issue, because I recognise the tendency to languish in myself, and know I need a cold dose of reality to snap me out of it. I currently feel inhibited about what to do with the limited time I have, and how to take action on the purposeful goals ahead of me. To be honest, my to-do list has become a wishlist. Things get added to the bottom faster than they are crossed off the top.
I haven’t yet found a good answer to this problem, and so instead I’m going to go back to Mel Robbins. She is currently running a free 3-part training program all about how to stop languishing and start taking action. As the final bit of synchronicity, it has the same name as my own quickstart guide on how to overcome limerence, Take Control. So, I’m going to take her course and see if it works.
One element of the exercise is social accountability, so if the discussion of languishing hit home for you, I’d invite you to join the course too and we’ll do it together. I’ll keep this post updated with comments as I go, and let’s see whether the Languishing Limerents of LwL can collectively get some benefit from working as a team.
There is a greater-than-zero chance that it will end with a sales pitch for a membership program, but there’s no harm in suspending my cynicism and trying!
Song of the Blog: “Slip Slidin’ Away” – Paul Simon (1977)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7PBjKzaQEw
Meme of the Blog:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0535/6917/products/procrastinationdemotivator.jpeg?v=1416776298
Nice! Mixing in a little self sabotage perhaps ?
Something like this?
http://lh4.ggpht.com/-jAI3r5qWBEY/UXbfsk4vxRI/AAAAAAAAbjU/1tYscqLIhRw/We-have-Met-The-Enemy—Pogo-poster-.jpg?imgmax=800
There ya go!
I love this read Dr L – I think we all need a check in from time to time and that we always are a WIP. Even after my LE I felt getting my life on track was where it was at, but I have noticed as time has gone by that I have started to fall back into old/bad habits:
– scrolling on my phone before bed (really ditched this habit after my LE and went straight to reading books before bed!)
– drinking more (went off booze after my LE to help with anxiety but a glass or three is slowly creeping back in!)
– going to bed later
– waking later (never been an early riser but always feel a million dollars when I do wake up earlier and throw in a walk with the dog at the park)
– eating due to boredom (mainly pre-dinner time, filling in that time between getting home with the kids till dinner – kids are older and more self-sufficient these days!)
I am pleased to say, I ditched watching TV and have stayed off binge watching as nothing really catches my eye – unless it’s Lego Masters, Madalorian, & Ted Lasso that we watch as a fam!
It’s like you try and fill in the void – I’m not sure what that void is and whether it’s just part of mid life as the term “having fun” seems to drop off the radar and more of the hum drum of life kicks in!
I know that’s where purposeful living comes in but it’s a tough slog some days.
My LE is completely behind me now, but I am always digging deep to ensure I stay on the purposeful road.
Will check out Mel Robbins course – may help with the healthy eating program I’ve just signed up for this week! 😂
This is EXACTLY my problem right now.
I did make some positive changes to my life after my EA but it sure doesn’t take long to fall back on some bad habits.
Really concentrating on Purposeful Living and it sure has helped but I am dragging my feet at actually making plans to move forward. With my Limerence about 70 to 75% better this is the perfect time!
I’m just tired. Exhausted is a better descriptor.
I can’t think in all of my 45 years on this earth, anything that has sucked the life out of me more than this.
Learned some valuable lessons and working on healing my lonely, sad inner child
So at least I have that and also this site and all of you wonderful people.
We can do this!
Here’s some happy synchronicity – right after I finished reading this post for the first time last night, I walked out into our garage/home gym and found my wife in the middle of a hard workout, listening to the music of her youth at full blast, sweating away WITH A BIG SMILE ON HER FACE. I told her later how happy it made me to see her seeming to enjoy a workout (and that she’d initiated working out on her own), and she seemed pleased that I noticed that.
Dr. L – I think your description of languishing is spot on, and is exactly what I’ve noticed in my SO over much of the past years. And I think it creates problems for us in part because I’m what I’d call an “anti-languisher”. As you all know from reading my posts, I’m definitely a guy who’s definitely subject to strong emotional swings and can get to feeling really down and upset, but my M.O. has always been that when I feel down and bad, I get more active rather than less. I hate just sitting with negative emotions, and find it hard to adequately distract myself with passive things like tv watching or video game playing, so I tend to lean into active things to distract and sooth myself when I’m upset.
For example, the other night I was feeling absolutely horrible after a text exchange with LO, and SO was kind of checked out for the evening doing her own thing, so I was on my own for the evening after the kids went to bed. I thought to myself “I can lay on the couch and feel like crap, or I can clean the bathrooms and work out while I feel like crap. Either way I’ll feel equally sad, but at least with the latter option the bathrooms will be clean and I’ll be a little more physically healthy”. And so I put on some heartbreak music and ruminated on sad thoughts while I cleaned both bathrooms and did a hard workout, and probably felt 10% better when it was done and I went to bed
And that’s just kind of how I usually operate, and I have to sometimes stop and recognize that this is one area where my wife and I are just wired differently. I get frustrated with her because I’m like “if you’re unhappy about something, why don’t you do something to change it?” and she gets frustrated because she feels like life is easy for me all of the time because I don’t suffer from outwardly obvious bouts of depression and low mood. And I guess maybe I should say “programmed differently” – I was raised by a hard working, “stiff upper lip” father who just worked through all his problems and a mother who was very supportive and always made me feel like I could accomplish things that I worked at, while SO was raised by a passive mother and a toxic step-father who constantly belittled her and made her feel like nothing she ever did was good enough, and so she was trained to believe that her own efforts wouldn’t help so why even try (which she’s actually managed to overcome in many areas of her life)
Recognizing this difference in me and SO has been helpful. For example, I know that tough love is usually good for me, but it’s absolutely counterproductive for her. I do my best when I feel challenged – she does her best when she feels safe. The best way I can support her in getting out of her doldrums is to support her in a way that makes her feel safe and secure and capable of succeeding in her goals
This is so good read. What a great way to end the weekend.
I think my languishing is not forgiving myself. I’m not sure why. Am I afraid to be present in my marriage even though my wife has made it clear that we can move on from this? She held me in her arms and comforted me while I had an intrusive thought of another woman! How much clearer can she make it? Does forgiving myself mean that I accept what I did was so terribly wrong? What have I possibly effected LO in her future and future relationships? Did I do her some permanent damage? Why does my wife choose to stay present in the relationship? What if it happens again? Vodka probably isn’t the right answer to these questions, but …..
What if you briefly had a d/s relationship for a few months with a friend while separated from a spouse for a few months? It’s hard to detox and not still feel strongly for that person and the kind of high that it provided. I suppose that is close to what limerence feels like. I am still friends with this person and have boundaries, but I still miss it a lot.
Update on the second part of the three part training:
Good video, if a bit too much pep-talk to practical advice for my taste. There were two major take-aways for me.
First, the counterintuitive idea that adding something purposeful/enjoyable to life is a way of achieving more during overwhelm. Interesting study result, and I would agree that I feel more “languished” on days when I have been struggling to get motivated, than when I have done something irrelevant to my goals but positive (such as taking a walk in the countryside). So, I definitely feel better, even if total productivity is the same.
Second, Mel categorises people as “box jumpers” (good vision of the future, but leap ahead without planning) and “path layers” (good strategic thinkers who make forward progress well, but no clear vision of where they are headed). I liked this concept, but don’t neatly fit either category, personally. I suppose I lean towards path laying, as can make task lists like a pro, but have lots of competing visions for the future.
Those are my quick thoughts. Enjoying it so far.
Thanks for the update Dr L – I’m still yet to check out her courses! Did you do her booklet – find it easy to do? Sometimes I find these types of things motivating at the time but then something I forget about later!!
I think one of the things I’m trying to focus on is the simple things that spark joy – I read the other day that the opposite of triggers is called glimmers. This made me smirk a bit but then when I read a psychologists version of glimmers they made sense to me – things like; feeling the sun on your skin, hugging your partner; petting your pet; listening to your fave song on repeater; awe of nature; sunsets; chatting with someone that gets you; swimming in the ocean (a personal fave of mine). These are all things that I’ve enjoyed my whole life!
She didn’t mention glimmers of limerence but in some ways the above made sense to me – are we all just searching for glimmers? Maybe our LE glimmer can be turned in to the other glimmers that are noted above as we move forward?
Do we actually need goals and future plans? Or do we just search for some of the joy in the present to keep us contented. I feel Eckhart Tolle has been a great source for me in my recovery. 💛
Hi WiP. I did start filling in the workbook, but have to admit that I didn’t stick with it. Part of my problem with languishing is impatience with trivial tasks, and filling in lots of dials when I already know the area of life I am focused on is a good example of the kind of thing that tests my patience 🙂
Funny about glimmers. Definitely wise to keep clear of the limerence kind, but the others sound good.
I’ve done the last part of the training now, and it did end with a sales pitch! No harm, though, as it wasn’t a hard sell, and it’s fair enough really after giving a taster of what’s on offer to then offer more.
Anyway, the last part of the training was useful. Basic message was that once you’ve identified your style of thinking (“box jumper” or “box stepper”) you need to focus on developing the other skill.
So, “box jumpers” have a clear idea of their dream destination, and need to focus on the next practical step and take action on small movements forwards without getting distracted or impatient. Box steppers need to spend more time daydreaming about an audacious future and turn off their inner critic before they start nitpicking and worrying.
Worthwhile all in all, and good content for a freebie.
“I’d define it as a state of feeling restless and unhappy with the status quo, but stuck and unclear on how to improve things. That leads to tiredness, a lack of motivation, and the tendency to respond to the stress of overwhelm by escaping into easy pleasures (like social media). It also means a low threshold for giving up on difficult tasks, followed by anxiety about how you aren’t making progress. You could probably also add a dash of disgust about your own inaction.”
I associate languishing more with something one might be feeling BEFORE falling into limerence rather than a by-product of limerence itself. I.e. I’m apathetic about everything, nothing interests me, and BOOM suddenly I met this seemingly amazing person who gives my life meaning, etc. 😉
For me, limerence isn’t languishing – at least not initially. Limerence is for me initially a super-charged motivational state, tons of energy, can’t sleep, etc. The problem is … where to direct that motivational drive if not at LO or LO-related things/things that promote the illusion of pair-bonding with LO? Where to channel that energy? Honestly, if you’re up to it, strenuous physical exercise is not the worst place to start… You could try to “burn” some of that surplus energy just by moving your body. Exercise might calm the mind a little too. 🤔
Limerence is also a paradox for me. It’s manic energy on the one hand but it’s also total paralysis on the other hand. The paralysis comes from craving LO’s absolute approval. Once the brutal mood swings kicked in, for me personally, in my mid-20s, all of my energy actually became consumed in trying to manage those mood swings. I did manage my mood swings somewhat, but in an unhealthy way.
For example, I used alcohol to “lower the temperature” whenever I was too high and I used tobacco, sugar, coffee, and junk food to “raise the temperature” whenever I was too low. I am not suggesting anyone use the method I used. I am very health-conscious these days, and know I failed to treat my body with respect. I am merely pointing out that limerence-induced mood swings are really unpleasant and a part of me was desperate to escape the unpleasantness by any means possible. 🤔
I think limerence puts us in a state of mind where we want to “react” to life, especially to our LO’s real and/or perceived actions, and not respond to life. Maybe part of recovery is moving away from that passive, reacting-to-life stance?
I guess purposeful living would involve drawing up a list of goals and pursuing said goals systematically? However, I understand the pull of indolence too – it’s super-difficult to feel goals matter when in limerence if goals aren’t LO-related. I get the delicious melancholy. One’s brain is basically lying and saying “pair-bonding with LO is the only thing you should be worrying about right now”. 😉
If one is unhappy with the status quo, maybe that is a wake-up call that one needs to embrace a more authentic life? I.e. maybe some disconnect has crept in between one’s life and one’s values? Maybe the place to start is to sit down and draw up a list of one’s authentic values? What does one really, truly value? 🤔
This languishing is a killer. I’ve been feeling it on and off for the past couple of months. When I first “glimmered” for current LO, it filled me with passion for life, and it didn’t hurt that it was late spring, when everything comes alive. But then the languishing hit. The “glimmer” was apparently mutual, but LO is someone I can’t have, so I suffer. NC is not at all possible…at least, not without changing my religion entirely. I tried already, and that’s not happening.
I lost interest in so many things I used to do before. I can barely pay attention to the news or much of anything. But listening to music–that’s one of the few things that can take my mind off the LO and fill me with passion again. So I try to do that as often as possible. My favorite movie/lit genre, that’s another thing that helps.
Funny thing is that I’ve had a crush on the LO for well over a decade, and it never caused me this kind of trouble before. He’d flirt with me when we saw each other, and I’d be on a high for a few days, then forget all about him. But then LO gave me a hug for the first time ever in the spring, and it hit me like a truck. I guess it got to him, too. Now everything’s changed.
Serial Limerent,
“ Lo is someone I can’t have, so I suffer.” Isn’t that the problem with the majority of limerents? ha. If I could only have Lo! It’s like wanting the moon and the stars… darned limererence, it shows up like a punishment or torture to the soul .
Not only languishing is a killer, but the hug? That’s how I got attached for good with lo, that first hug when dancing, I got attached forever!
We know we can’t have LOs, the right thing is to make it all possible to go NC and live with the memories. No escaping that when there’s a SO or no reciprocation. Otherwise we’re considered masochists, who
like suffering. You can keep LC if NC not possible.
Quote for today:
Accept what it is, let go of what was and have faith in what will be.”
Purposeful living, pursue that, no other choices …
Be strong to temptation. Best wishes. We’re with you in this battle…
Thanks! Fortunately, we both are keeping up boundaries. We never diss spouses to each other, don’t spend long hours texting each other, none of that. He’s very busy and hasn’t even been at church for the past month. He’s demonstrated that he cares about me, he’s flirty–but he never crosses certain lines. Never makes propositions. Our text/e-mail contact is fairly limited; most of it is about church. I hope to get to the point where my emotions are stabilized. Maybe that’ll happen now that his obligations have heated up and I go for weeks without seeing him.
Dr. L, somehow I missed this last year but this is where I’m at right now. I have relapsed for a bit and want to keep moving forward. I’m going to give it a try.
One thing interesting is your mention of synchronicity. I’d never really known much about it until LO. It’s one thing that messed with my mind. He was always like I was thinking of you too; our meeting was meant to be etc. He recently started a new job and posted on social media about it. I congratulated him and he took a picture of a quote that he saw posted on his first day. (Early on in our working together I had given him a quote. It was something that really spoke to him and he referenced it often) He put the picture in his reply and said how he thought of me on his first day and how he had to tell me and it was another synchronicity. That messes with my mind. I wish you could do a post about how things like that can keep us in bad place in our LEs.
Beth
Early on it seemed destiny aka (for scientific purposes) synchronicity that we met. I was unhappy at my previous job and was looking for a change. But I didn’t know what I wanted to do or where to go. But I wanted out.
I took this job (again), where I am now, at a place that I had unceremoniously been dismissed from back in 2011, being the scapegoat for something someone else did. The gal they sent to my location to fire me, is the same one that came after me in 2019 asking me to come work for the company again. She was the boss now and said that all the people responsible for my previous experience were gone. I eventually agreed.
Less than a year after I came back she quit. With that the company now needed to seek someone out to fill her role. They reached out to, my now boss, from another department of the company and he agreed to take the position and with that brought LO with him.
After less than a year after she and him came over, the gal that I usually dealt with as far as accounting goes, quit. So now LO was the only one left qualified to do the job. Shortly thereafter the company figured out that the gal that was previously there had not been doing her job and both AR and AP were a mess.
Rather than hire someone else to help her, the owner of the company told me to come down to her location on a daily basis and help her until the problem was resolved. Thus I spent 5 months working day to day with her in 2021.
All those circumstances, other than being disgruntled at my previous job to where I took this job, were out of my hands. If that domino effect of things out of my control had not happened than I would not have ever met LO. And then even if my boss and her still came over to our department and I didn’t work with her daily for the time I did limerence might not have developed. It felt, then, like it was meant to be. All the planets aligned for us to meet. Of course now, I know that’s ludicrous (not the State Farm commercial) now. But it damn sure felt like it was then.
Chin up Beth. You can do this. I believe in you. And you have a lot of support here. So keep posting young lady. 🙂
Thanks Adam! That whole concept can really mess with our minds can’t it? No planets aligned here either. I was just surprised to see that word and concept in the post I read as LO was the only one I ever heard it from.
I’m at the point where the reality of everything is sinking in and there is so much guilt and shame for how deep I got into this. I need focus on purposeful living and get involved in church again. You are doing great and it’s been encouraging to watch you overcome this. Have a great day
Thanks for drawing attention to this post as I hadn’t read it.
I’m bored. Which is a terrible place for increased LE. Truth is, LO isn’t interested, SO is sad and depressed and life is hard. This is the trickiest stage of life so far for me. Routine is boring, work is fine but slow, raising kids is challenging, people aren’t that interesting anymore and some are toxic.
LE is great at its height but the come down sure is a bitch.
Good morning, WhoompThereItIs!
I agree that the mundane routine can get boring. Raising kids is hard, too. Yesterday, my teens returned home from girl’s camp and they were disrespectful for some reason. It’s so insulting when they behave like that, but teens are teens. I reminded myself that we only have to live with them for a few more years then I went in my office and worked. They left me alone for the most part because I was working.
I like Frederico’s suggestions. Is there something you could do even if it doesn’t appeal right away? He has good ideas like going out and reading. I love those ideas! Of course, I think everyone should go running. It makes me happy. I always have a run on my calendar to look forward to.
My quickest routes to happiness are gratitude, sunshine and exercise. I also love connecting with people who I like. I liked my oldest daughter yesterday. She was full of healthy ambition and she completed a lot of to-do tasks. She was proud of herself and she wanted to share her success with me so it was a highlight of my day. The “free rabbit” that she brought home from the park was also a fun surprise. He is so cute! We will probably take him to the shelter today, but he was fun to snuggle and watch last night. Someone left him at the park in a cage with a note that said “free rabbit.” It was way too hot to leave an animal outside in a cage yesterday, so my daughter brought him home. He is a funny little guy. No matter how we set up his cage, he moved everything. He kind of glared at me as he rearranged a towel. I’m sure he was thinking something like, “It doesn’t go there. What are you thinking, Lady? Towels belong on this side of the cage. Duh!” He seriously gave me the side-eye. It was hilarious.
It sounds like your SO could be going through some clinical depression. Depression stinks! I wish I had answers for you. If I don’t get good sleep, I struggle to regulate my mood. Nothing seems to hurt my mood more than a lack of sleep. Do you know if your SO is struggling with insomnia? I use melatonin gummies from Walmart (Spring Valley brand) because they work better than other brands for me. I also use Doxylamine succinate sometimes. It is an antihistamine and sleep aid that you can get over the counter. Those are my two favorites for insomnia, but I think everyone has to find what works for them.
I don’t mean to be insensitive, but something that regulates my SO’s mood reliably is physical intimacy. I hope this isn’t offensive because I’m just trying to share what works for me. If my SO seems sad or moody, I seduce him, we fool around and he is all better afterwards. It’s easy, fast and pleasurable for both of us. I just don’t see a downside to it.
Anyway, today is going to be a great day!
It’s true. My goodbye kiss to Momma this morning turned into me almost being late for work. She said, as I was getting dressed of work “Have a good day baby.” I go “With this start to the day how can I not?” 😉
Whoomp.
I’m sorry you’re feeling that way at the moment. Unfortunately, I can’t remember all the details of your original post.
Sometimes I have struggled with the concept of purposeful living too, no matter how laudable it is, because it can seem like a huge leap to make. I think the key can be taking small achievable steps to try to improve things.
Routine, although comforting, can be boring and other people can sometimes be so disappointing. Some can be lovely, though.
I don’t have any children or a SO, although I wish that I had, and the grass often looks greener from the other side of the fence. I have not experienced those realities and perhaps I shouldn’t even be commenting.
What I am wondering is this. Are there any things that you used to enjoy in your life that you don’t really feel like doing now? Within the constraints of work and your family life, could you force yourself to do some different things or take up an activity or distraction that may become more attractive as time goes on? These are rhetorical questions of course and I will not patronise you with specific suggestions.
If I cite my own current situation, as a single man trying to withdraw from the pain of limerence, I don’t really want to go out much, contact others, read books or take trips. I am making myself do those things though, one at a time, because I know deep down that distractions can be helpful.
It must be difficult when you have a SO who is sad and depressed. I’m wondering if some distractions could involve him too.
As for having an LO who is not interested, that’s got to be a good thing in the long run isn’t it? At least that’s what I keep telling myself as the shackles of resentment and the powerful memories gradually weaken.
I very much hope that you will feel better soon.
Thank you for your reply. I do feel a bit better already. Offloading here is comforting although, I know it’s a bit whiny of me.
I really want to join the gym and I’m hoping to do that soon. I wish SO and I could do some classes together but with limited childcare support it’s tricky.
SO and I started doing more together which was nice, but then family resented it and weren’t as available to offer support with the children. External family issues partly contribute to the low mood in the household.
I can’t really remember much excitement before LE which is such a shame because I’m sure there were so many good things.
One day at a time.
Yes! The gym! I love that idea. Most gyms have childcare. When I had a houseful of little monsters, I joined the YMCA because they had free childcare for up to 2 hours. I could drop off my kids and enjoy some peaceful quiet moments. It felt wonderful! Great idea! It’s so nice when the kids get to an age where you can leave them alone. My youngest is nine so she can do a few hours alone, but she rarely has to be alone because at least one of her sisters is usually home. It is so nice. My SO and I can go running together. You guys will get there. In the mean time, something I liked to do with my youngens was while they played at the park, I did laps around the playground. I got my exercise and supervised them at the same time.
Surely you have some tips to share. What works for you?
Thanks @lovisa. The rabbit sounds cute!
Good suggestions. The only thing I’d say is I live in the UK so we don’t have wallmart or sunshine! 🤣
I think becoming more fit will be good for myself and SO. If we did get sunshine I would definitely embrace it!
I can’t control much in the bedroom. Always been more my interest than SO.
Maybe lack of attention contributed to the LE in the first place.
Not that I’m trying to blame anyone, really.
I think exercise is the answer.
I really missed you guys. I have had to lay low for a while. May still have to. When my SO read my diary, he was horrified that I still needed “validation” from other men. He said he thought we were good. He said he thought he was “enough” and not inadequate. I tried to explain that this was something I was working in and did not want to burden him with. He was angry for two days, then things went back to normal. But he said he is not in a good way. So we are actively trying to find marriage counselors and family therapy. When I do find one, I hope to bring up the topic of limerence from that route. 🙏
We missed you, too! Your absence was abrupt and concerning, but I figured you were trying to lay low for a while.
I’m sorry that your limerence was hard on your SO. I know it has nothing to do with him, but I can see why he feels that way. I think it’s kind of comparable to how wives feel inadequate if they learn that their husband used porn. I don’t think it has anything to do with the wife unless she is really checked out of the marriage. I think they just use it for mood regulation which is probably what you are doing with limerence. Sure it’s not ideal, but it doesn’t mean your husband is failing either. You discovered a way to get a dopamine hit and now you’re hooked on it. That’s all. It isn’t hubby’s fault. You will work through it.
Good luck! Post-disclosure to SO was an emotional roller coaster at my house.
Lovisa,
“I think it’s kind of comparable to how wives feel inadequate if they learn that their husband used porn. ”
Porn is anonymous. It’s a means to an end. Unless the SO has become fixated on particular porn actress.
Limerence, or even a strong crush, is dinging with a specific person who the limerent more than likely knows in real life and is interacting with. There’s also a strong emotional component to it. Yes, limerence has more to do with the limerent themselves than anything else, but I think you’re comparing apples to oranges.
I absolutely agree, Marcia.
Erm, the rabbit story is really touching. The porn analogy, maybe not so much this time, to be honest, Lovisa x.
Oh boy, LN. Read this
https://livingwithlimerence.com/limerence-as-an-altered-state-of-mind/#comment-58650
It was posted around the same time that you commented.
I’m so glad to see you here again! I missed your updates because I was at church, then I got home and they were pulled down. Been worrying about you!
I once had them pulled down shortly after going to church but it was a very long time ago…
frederico 😂🙈
I haven’t had much to update but I’m glad I came back, just for this 😂😂
“I haven’t had much to update but I’m glad I came back, just for this 😂😂”
@Trifles.
Frederico says: “I once had them pulled down shortly after going to church but it was a very long time ago…”
I’m starting to think Mr Frederico has a few verbal tricks hidden up his right sleeve. He probably has a few “mere trifles” hidden up his right sleeve, too. Just don’t shake him too hard after hugging him hello – two birthday cards might fall out of his left sleeve. 😉
I can think of another joke involving “mere trifles” and whatever Mr Frederico had pulled down, however, I can’t tell it, as the taste level isn’t congruent with the taste level I like to see maintained at LwL. If I told the joke in question, I would have to send myself into permanent exile. Self-control is the price one pays for liberty. 😇
I think its worse when they are pulled down shorty before church. Or at least that’s been my experience.
Hi LN, thanks for checking in. I ( and I’m sure many on lwl) was worried about you as you know …💌
Let’s be positive, it seems that it was not a complete disaster as in a ‘walk-out’ situation, although I’m sure the first few days must have been so bad, and the tears you shed for both anger and remorse. I’m sure it was physically tiring as much as emotionally so. I think if this would happen to me, it would be so bad.
So I think just getting through the first few days after the ‘finding’ is a success, and now the opportunity for some reflection as a couple and new beginnings. Maybe to continue to take the positives from all of this and I hope lwl gives you some support .
Thanks, IMHO, I appreciate it. I had to delete the other comme ts because I didn’t know how he’d react if he found them. But I think in light of some of the other comments recently, I’ll be done with this site from now on. Take care, and thanks for the kindness you and others have shown 😊
Hi LN,
please don’t be hurt by the fooling around with words, it‘s got nothing to do with you at all, really!
On the contrary, we are all glad that you are back to tell us that not everything has blown up and that you are working on it, it sounded so worrying in the beginning.
It could be the way out of the ever-spiraling limerence stuff!
I wish you and your SO the very best, if you decide to leave the site (I try not to be too active here too since I sometimes feel it’s pulling me back)! It’s your decision, but feel free to post any time, we will be glad to hear from you!
LN, appreciate your words. I’m very sensitive (too much), so I really do understand. please don’t leave lwl on a couple of off-target comments. I’m absolutely sure they are not connected to you at all and I see much support for you and your situation.
If the time is right for you to not come back thats ok.
I hope that will come for me too at some point, as it will mean Ive moved on from my limerence.
In the meantime….here I am.
Best wishes
@LN.
I’m glad you are okay. Limerence is involuntary – it’s something that happens to a person without their choosing. The intrusive thoughts start to come unbidden, etc. The mood swings are very debilitating.
On the one hand, I don’t think spouses should take things too personally. Limerence in no way reflects on SO. I don’t think limerents always devalue their SOs or rewrite history. I don’t believe limerents always act on their limerence. (I didn’t act on my limerence because my LO was an unobtainable god in my eyes). On the other hand, it’s understandable if spouses feel hurt about not necessarily being the person the limerent is dreaming about. etc.
LN, you strike me as a wonderfully warm person with a good sense of humour. I’m sure you’re not leaving over wordplay. Truly, I think wordplay on LwL is one of the least problematic aspects. People resort to wordplay when they don’t want to talk about heavy stuff. Wordplay is a bit of a reprieve from all the intensity/heavy stuff.
My play on words here was simply done to help Frederico feel included. It had nothing to do with you. My previous plays on words were done to show Marcia I understand where she’s coming from somewhat – as much as any man can understand where any woman is coming from. It again had nothing to do with you. 🙂
All humour on my part is done with empathy in mind. It’s never an encouragement for people to act against their own moral standards. I think human beings are perfectly capable of holding two thoughts in their mind at once – acknowledgement of desire and reluctance to act on desire. Humour can often very effectively capture that tension that exists between these two poles. Dr. L. has plenty of slightly nerdy INFJ-style humour in his posts/picture captions.
I have only experienced what I call real limerence once. My LO and I were both single, though he eventually partnered. And the barriers were caused by my LO’s own enigmatic personality – or, rather, by my failure to understand my LO’s own enigmatic personality. In reality, there was no love triangles and no romantic rivals. There was just one random human being with a hard-to-read personality.
I have experienced some attractions later in life. But these attractions were more or less mutual, so the desire quickly faded on both sides. Without uncertainty, limerence can’t build into something obsessive and all-consuming. In other words, I’ve only had one attraction in my life that caused me immense suffering.
I don’t think crushes alone are limerence. I don’t think seeking or receiving validation from the same/opposite sex is limerence. I realise that married people benefit from boundaries around things such as flirting. On the other hand, no marriage thrives without trust and a degree of freedom and privacy for both spouses.
If I had a SO who was limerent, I would be less worried about the risk of infidelity than I would be worried about SO’s declining mental health. Poor mental health would alert me to my SO’s frame of mind. I would like my SO to talk to me about their frame of mind.
I don’t think there are thought police/morality police at LwL – apart from occasional members of the public who post one or two nasty asides and then disappear. If people can’t discuss limerence, then how can they come to terms with the complex emotions they are experiencing? But, also, there must be a way of talking about limerence that shows the right amount of tact and nuance. There must be a way to talk about limerence without enabling it.
I have a lot of problems with some people’s posts, because some people consistently approach limerence from a dishonest angle. These posters paint themselves as victims, and all other humans (who don’t instantly and rapturously validate their limerence) as persecutors. These posters want to pretend that marriage is some kind of cage/prison. And if it wasn’t for societal prejudice, limerent and LO could be together. Of course, none of the above is true.
In most cases, the LO isn’t with the limerent because LO doesn’t want to be with the limerent, period. By shifting blame onto society, some limerents can remain in denial about the fact LO doesn’t want them on any level, and the latter is simply indulging in embarrassing delusions. Worse, these posters persist in falsely accusing random people on the Internet – people they don’t even know and will never know – of somehow persecuting them, or being romantic rivals.
I can’t comprehend people who seem to want to force others to validate their limerence in some mysterious way. What’s the point? How does validation from others make an LE any more or less real? Limerence is limerence. If one is in limerence, one is in limerence. If one isn’t in limerence, one isn’t in limerence. Validation from others isn’t going to make one whit of difference to the altered state.
Limerence doesn’t mean the LO reciprocates. Limerence doesn’t mean the limerent is entitled to a sexual/romantic relationship with LO. Limerence means nothing except the limerent is experiencing an altered state, with some interesting side-effects such as bumped-up libido and intrusive thoughts. Being in an altered state isn’t intrinsically wrong. However, because of hormonal fluctuations, the altered state can be stressful. And the altered state can make one feel very sensitive to real/perceived signs of rejection from LO.
During my time at LwL, I have felt bullied. Ironically, I haven’t felt bullied by random members of the public who occasionally post nasty asides – random members of the public are entitled to their opinions. I have felt bullied, however, by fellow limerents who have treated me as if I had some kind of vendetta against them simply because I adopt a completely neutral stance toward their limerent episodes, as if complete neutrality were a crime. Absurd! From what I’ve observed, limerents are oftentimes so desperate for their feelings to be validated they unintentionally behave like bullies themselves.
Sending you love and warm wishes, LN. As a fellow INFJ, I think you will be able to understand my comment, as you’ve been able to understand my comments in the past. Limerents are often good people. But limerence can draw out something ugly in otherwise good people. And yes, as you suspect, it’s all to do with hormones going cray-cray. 🙂
Very well said, Sammy!
I agree that limerence is just an altered state of mind. It is a thought and a feeling. It is not an action.
The limerent chooses how to respond. The limerent CAN behave ethically even though they are overwhelmed with intense emotions. I think Adam is a good example of a limerent who behaved ethically (I know Adam would disagree because it has been a difficult journey, but I think he chose the high road). Some limerents try to behave ethically and still find themselves in a tricky situation like Lost in Space. Some limerents give in to temptation and regret it and try to do better like C is for Cat. Then we have the unrepentant limerents that justify their inappropriate behavior. I don’t want to call out anyone from our community so I will use Jay’s wife as an example. I struggle with patience for the last group. They trigger disgust in me. Interestingly, we learn from all of them. All of us started from the same place: an altered mental state. Then we discovered who we are by the way we managed our limerence. I don’t think limerence itself is bad, I think it can be handled poorly or it can be handled well. I don’t know LN’s full story, but I have been under the impression that she tries to manage her limerence ethically. Admittedly, I haven’t read all of her posts. The posts I’ve read were kind and helpful. She seems to be the type of person who is trying to do the right things. I hope she and her SO become closer as they navigate her limerence.
I’m sad that you’ve felt bullied on LwL, Sammy. I hope I wasn’t the bully. I’m sorry if I was, and I like to know specifically what I said so that I can apologize for it and try to see it from your perspective. I don’t want to be a bully. If it’s me, I’d like to do better going forward.
LN, If you are referring to the side-track jokes – please know that they are in no way connected to your situation, and I am sure no one meant any disrespect. After posting my comment I realized that I should have added a disclaimer that it was only related to f’s play on words, and to nothing else. I apologize regardless for the poor timing.
I hope you are able to work through this together with your SO. It sounds like you are already on the right path!
Yes, indeed, LN. If my aside caused you offence, then please accept my apologies. It was perhaps not very well judged. I too wish you all the best.
Yeah, in hindsight my first limerent episode happened years ago. He knew something was up because I actually had a libido — I’d never had a libido before. At the time I thought is was an EA. Anyway, we worked through it. Now, years later, I learned what limerence is, and I try to work it out without hurting him/burdening him, so that’s why he did what he did. He found out the hard way. We will work it out. I am getting us help. On the good side, it pretty much abolished any lingering feelings I was working out on my own.