Another trip to the LwL coffeehouse for some genial banter.
This week’s YouTube video turned out to be a bit of an epic effort. It’s on the topic of the links between limerence and other mental health conditions, which is a question that I get asked surprisingly often.
The usual query is: is my limerence linked to my ADHD/OCD/borderline (etc.) condition? This is my best answer.
In the video, I go fairly deep into the neuroscience of OCD, ADHD and anxious attachment, and the similarities and differences to the neuroscience of limerence. That became quite an exercise in research, as I wanted to get the details as accurate as I could.
I might even have overdone it a little.
What’s missing, though, is a good account of what it feels like to experience limerence if you have any of these other conditions (or tendencies, if you haven’t had a formal diagnosis).
Because I lack that direct personal experience, it’s hard to go beyond comparisons of the clinical evidence and get to the really meaty reality of having limerence along with another neurodivergent trait.
So, to kick off discussions for this week, I’d like to invite anyone who has any form of neurodiversity or mental health condition to describe their experience of limerence as best as they can.
To stimulate discussion, here’s some things I’m wondering about:
- Does being limerent change the symptoms of your other condition?
- Are some limerence symptoms especially strong for you?
- Does the altered state of mind of limerence resemble the altered state of mind of the other condition?
- Did limerence set in about the same time as your other condition, or did they begin at different ages?
- If you do feel that limerence is linked to another condition, can you explain why you feel that way?
All insights are greatly appreciated!
A second question (boy, I’m being nosy this week) is about UK podcasts. The launch date for my book in the UK is fast approaching, and I’d love to get talking about it on podcasts in the relationship and self-development space.
So, this is a call for suggestions – any podcasts that LwL followers listen to, which might be a good fit for a chat about all things limerence?
Again, all recommendations welcomed!
Pre-order offer!
I’ve just found out that Waterstones in the UK is currently running a promotion for 25% off pre-ordered books. It runs from 22nd to 24th February. Use code PREORDER25 at the checkout. Link to Smitten here:
https://www.waterstones.com/book/smitten/dr-tom-bellamy/9781786789143
Nothing formally diagnosed, but I would say I have been suffering from depression and anxiety for several years now. For me, I believe these conditions are situational rather than the result of some innate or chemical issue in my brain. I don’t believe I would be experiencing depression or anxiety if I had a normal marriage, a job I still liked, a wider circle of friends and no financial issues to contend with.
Limerence has been my escape from depression and anxiety over the past five years. I would say I have turned to limerence as a coping mechanism over the past five years. Rather than dealing with my very real problems, I have engaged in rumination over my LOs. This has actually made my issues worse. This will sound familiar to many Limerents, but at first it felt good, but like most addictions, it eventually stopped being a pleasant experience when I began to see the hopelessness of it all. It also started to impact my work performance because it’s so much easier to ruminate over my LOs than to buckle down and get caught up in a job I increasingly despise, or even to make the effort to change jobs and careers. I’ve certainly tried to end my marriage, but my wife is delusional and won’t see that our marriage is dead despite living like roommates for seven years and me reiterating to her clearly and unequivocally over the past four years that I want out of the marriage and will never change my mind. I find that experiencing the “so near yet so far away” feeling with my current LO adds to my depression. This is a fantastic lady I can see would likely be a good fit for me, and there are some signs she likes me too, yet I can’t pursue her because I’m still stuck in a dead marriage.
As far as symptoms are concerned, while I would still classify what I’m experiencing as “high-functioning depression,” I do experience lack of energy, tiredness, poor eating habits, lack of attention to my personal hygiene (at times) and often this strange lack of motivation to do the things that I know will help me dig myself out of my hole. I know I feel better when I shave, have a shower, put on some clean clothes, brush my teeth and get out of the house, yet I so often have no energy to do those things. I feel tremendous anxiety at work about completing unpleasant tasks, so I procrastinate. The problem is that when I finally do tackle those things it opens up a can of worms (“You mean to say you’re just getting to this NOW?”). That fear makes things worse. I’d rather ruminate about my LO, rehash our interactions in my mind over and over again and fantasize about her. I know this isn’t helpful but I still do it as an escape.
As far as UK podcasters are concerned, I think Steven Bartlett at Diary of a CEO is excellent. Many of his guests talk about mental health, and I could see Dr. L being a great guest on that podcast/YouTube channel.
I am the wife of a husband who was caught out with his 4th LO. I was blindsided. We are still married. He claims it was all a mistake, his ego was out of control, going through grief and just went off the rails. I truly believe he has some mental problems but undiagnosed. He has symptoms of OCD, compulsion and is narcissistic at times. He always gaslights me. I have trouble believing anything he says to the point hes says he loves me and wants to make things work yet he has lied, was on the verge of throwing 33 years away. How do I get over the lying and put it behind me? It is all on him, he also has a LO at work. When challenged he confessed to 4 instances of having a crush on someone else, that was a hard day to be told that. All I hadn’t informed him to have a crush on me like we used to. Even when I had breast cancer he didn’t support me and told me stayed as it was the right thing to do. I was oblivious to this until 2 years ago. I truly believe mental health and limerence go hand in hand.
@Heartbroken, I can completely empathize with you and with other spouses or partners of limerents. It must feel like a betrayal to know your SO is obsessing over someone else. I can completely understand that. There are some people on this site who are in healthy, happy, normal relationships and they are trying to cope with this affliction. They want to do the right thing and often say they prefer their partners over their LOs.
I personally have never experienced limerence while in a happy and healthy relationship. While there were some issues throughout our marriage, I wasn’t limerent for anyone for about 20 years until I met LO #1 five years ago. It was only once I had been living in an unsatisfying sexless marriage for a couple of years that I started to have a wandering eye in a big way. I do think I am suffering from depression and anxiety, but I actually think my wife has more serious mental health issues. I believe she has some type of personality disorder. I have documented some of my struggles with her elsewhere on this site, but she is controlling, nagging, manipulative, gaslighting, boring, lazy and downright abusive towards me and our daughter. So much so that my daughter has told me she will never forgive me if I don’t get her out of this toxic, abusive environment with my wife. The police and the child protection authorities have been to our door several times to deal with my wife’s and daughter’s often violent altercations. As I mentioned, my wife is completely delusional about the state of our marriage. I have been telling her clearly, unequivocally and unwaveringly over four years that I want separation and divorce, and still she refuses to accept that it is over. Just this past weekend, she went on about how she wants to save our marriage, and I told her I feel differently. I desperately want out. Sure, I would love a chance with my current LO (who just seems perfect for me), but I’m not delusional. I know that even if my marriage ended the chances are I wouldn’t end up with LO #3.
So, yes, I do feel like I am suffering from some mental health challenges, but I think they are more situational than biological or chemical. I’m depressed because my life sucks, not because of some chemical imbalance in my brain. I’m not a neuroscientist, a psychologist or a psychiatrist, but my personal opinion is that mental illness often accompanies limerence, but I don’t believe that has to be the case. And I recognize that in this day and age, we rush to medicate issues like depression and anxiety even if the causes are situational. I think it is far better to solve the problems causing the issues rather than simply to pop pills, but I’m hardly an expert. I do think that medication is an absolute necessity for some people, including those with severe depression, but again, mine is of the “high functioning” variety. Most people who know me wouldn’t suspect I’m depressed.
I have been diagnosed with dysthymia (chronic, low grade depression) and have taken an SSRI for 10 years now. It wasn’t until after I started feeling therapeutic results that I realized that other things like slight social anxiety and menstrual ups and downs disappeared as well!
I only care to talk about the LOs I had while married because they taught me the most. The first one was during a rough patch in our marriage. I had befriended and unexpectedly fell limerent for a male coworker, even though he was in no way my type. He professed his love for me, but I couldn’t leave my then- husband for him, and continued on the path to NC once the coworker left.
I figured it was one and done experience, because our marriage got better, but to my surprise 5 years later encountered an LO2 (while happily married at this time) from a male coworker who really started laying on the flirting thick, and WAS my type in many ways. He totally got in my head, which led to the worst limerence of my life. That’s when I sought therapy and the book about limerence and finally figured out what was going on.
I feel like limerence itself is a type of neurodivergence. For me, each one lasted about two years from start to finish. It lingered as long as it took to get itself to stop. All I could do was make sure I had all digital records, texts, and phone numbers deleted, and enacted total NC, and then day by day wait for it to slow down. I couldn’t force it to slow down and disappear; it had to do it on it’s own time.
Limerence sucks, but if it is limerence, it should have an expiration date if one forces herself into no contact, whether she feels like it or not.
💙
@Limerence nurse, I am glad medication worked for you for the dysthymia you were experiencing. I know that medication can help a lot of people, but I know that I am experiencing depression and anxiety because of my situation. Certain coping strategies help, but I really need to push myself to get out of my comfort zone and get out of the rut I’m currently experiencing. It’s certainly not a case of me being unable to experience joy, and I’m still basically holding it together at work. I enjoy a few drinks, but only at weekends, and I do limit myself to ensure it doesn’t go too far. My life hasn’t completely fallen apart, but it could be much better.
No contact did help me get over LO #1 (well, that and transference to LO #2). LO #3 feels different though, and I’m not prepared to go full no contact. I am already in fairly low contact mode with her, but I suspect that is because she is wary about leading on a married man. She doesn’t come out with us very often.
There are some signs my wife is beginning to see our marriage is over (although I have thought that before), and LO #3 just seems so perfect for me. There is a real chance I could be free to pursue a relationship with this lady in the not-too-distant future. For some reason, my wife suspects this. She correctly guessed that I have a thing for LO #3, even though they’ve never met. But as long as she doesn’t confront LO #3, I don’t much care. On the other hand, I recognize that there is probably little chance of me being with LO #3. Still, there are other women in my life I might have a shot with some day if my marriage ends, and I do feel like dating someone else would help me get over LO #3. I understand that is about 10 steps ahead of where I should be right now, but I do think it is prudent to at least think about the future.
Sorry, slight error in your user name. It should have been @Limerent nurse.
@heartbroken
I have a spouse who over the past year discovered that she was/is limerent. We just went through an incredibly hard year and it felt like we were finally coming through it. Then it began again with a new person this time, almost at the same time of year as the previous one. We have a beautiful family, and to be honest they are the only reason I am still holding on. I love my kids more than anything, but I no longer feel like I know my wife, and cannot take this heartbreak anymore. She can look me in the eye and justify, flat out lie about it, in her mind to protect me, but I know her and know that she is somewhere else. It is with me everyday, and has impacted my health and ability to enjoy so many parts of life that make up who I am.
I wish you all the best, and hope that you can find peace somewhere.
@Heartbroken, the circumstances of my husband’s limerence are almost identical to yours. The pain of it all is indescribable.
In regards to Dr. L’s inquiry about connected mental health issues, my husband’s limerence seems related to his mild OCD and addictive personality. In addition to discovering a very long text chain indicating a close, emotional relationship with a co-worker, I found thousands (not hundreds, THOUSANDS) of photos and screenshots of various subjects related to his LO. The photos were of her, her facebook posts, her hobbies & interests, (astrology, wicca, all sorts of strange stuff) things he saw online and out & about that reminded him of her, love songs, books, their respective horoscopes, etc. These were taken for a period of at least 2years. The list is very long, and all I can say is that the scene from “The Shining” where Wendy discovers what her husband had been up to for all those months, is the only way I can convey how I felt at the discovery. (cue the creepy music, & the look of horror on her face says it all.) Luckily, I stumbled upon this blog a few weeks later so at least started to get an inkling of what was probably going on.
Back to the related mental health conditions: He does agree that this is connected to his (mild)OCD, but when I try to ask him about his thoughts and feelings regarding his LE, but he gets defensive and angry. This all has been enormously traumatic and stressful for me, as I have also noticed that he lacks empathy for what I am going through and though he says he loves me and wants to stay married, he won’t elaborate, talk about our future, contemplate why this happened, or develop a plan to prevent its recurrence. After 30 years of marriage, I can say that this is very out of character for him, but I’ve seen from reading Dr.L’s articles and many of the readers’ comments, that “zombie spouse” is relatively common.
The thing that truly frightens me is that his massive change in communication and personality is consistent with early symptoms of frontotemporal dementia.
Is anyone here aware of a connection between limerence and eventual diagnosis of FTD?
Maybe this condition is one to add to the list of related disorders…
I noticed that we have three community members who are in a lot of pain. I want to share some resources for spouses of limerents. I hope that you three (Heartbroken, Giovanni and Libra SO) will find helpful information in these articles or the accompanying comments.
https://livingwithlimerence.com/new-project-dealing-with-limerence-in-marriage/
https://livingwithlimerence.com/can-a-marriage-recover-from-limerence/
The following article has my favorite comments section for spouses of limerents. I think you might find some strength if you read stories from people who went through similar struggles.
https://livingwithlimerence.com/dealing-with-limerence-in-marriage/
There are many other resources for spouses of limerents. I just shared a few.
Best wishes!
Thank you, Lovisa, and Dr.L! Finding this website has saved my sanity, as I am able to view my husband’s behavior from a very different perspective (neurodiversity/mental health issue) than when I first discovered it. It also helped me understand and get beyond the insane “hysterical bonding” phase which is apparently very common for spouses dealing with betrayal. Talk about questioning one’s sanity! The video on trauma response was very helpful.
You are very welcome, Libra SO. I’m sorry that you were questioning your sanity and I’m glad that you feel a little better about your understanding of what is happening with your SO.
I’m happy to help you through this trial in any way that I can. I think it’s important that I don’t mislead you. I am the limerent in my marriage. I have never been the SO of a Limerent. I just want you to know that my perspective is probably more aligned with your husband’s than yours.
Stay strong, Libra SO. You will get through this.
Hello Libra and other SOs who may read this today or maybe long away in the future.
I just want to reinforce the compassion and support given by Lovisa (as she always brings ! ).
Please feel free to keep connecting and commenting here.
I know the community on LwL are mainly limerents and the regulars can converse with in-jokes etc, however, mostly everyone is emotionally intelligent, respectful and trying to do the right thing and figure out the madness of limerence that we get caught up in and find so hard to get out of.
I personally find it very insightful and helpful to read about spouses perspectives to see the bigger ‘real life’ picture and impact away from my own altered intense internal thoughts.
Reading these comments is always a good wake-up to the executive brain to do more to tame the limerent brain.
I know Dr.L also really values SO’s inputs and experiences, so a very warm welcome !
Libra SO
I would say the anger and defensiveness from a limerent are out of guilt. We are acting out to our spouses what we want to internalize on ourselves. In my case I was fiercely defensive of my LO. Anytime my wife would bring up something even slightly pointed at LO I would defend her. It got to the point that I didn’t care if my wife thought LO and I were having a PA. All that mattered is that she didn’t tarnish LO’s name.
Perhaps this is what your husband is dealing with. Because if the LO isn’t manipulative when you talk, which feels like “attack”, to your husband about her, he gets defensive of her because if he is honest with himself, he knows he can’t defend his actions, so he takes up defending hers.
I was terribly protective of LO even in her interactions with other men. None of them deserved her. None of them could be trusted. I would watch her tirelessly to make sure she was safe. It was an exhausting mindset. Even still now almost three years later. When former co-workers still feel the need to update me on her life despite me maintaining NC.
You sound to be a very patient yet hurt wife. It’s big of you to deal with this as well as my wife did/does with mine. If he comes around and you can put this behind you, believe me he will appreciate your understanding despite probably feeling justified to do the opposite.
Yep. Volunteer work in order to be around my LO “helped” my OCD, anxiety, and depression. Except it didn’t. I was a ball of nerves trying to perceive whether other people guessed my true feelings or not, trying to determine where “the line” was, trying to read my LO, hoping for reciprocation while knowing that was wrong (we’re both married), etc. etc. etc.
Finally it all came to a head and I realized: “Hello, darkness my old friend.” I’m convinced limerence and OCD are different things, but having been to rock bottom and back with OCD, I realized the way these things are sneaky and deceptive and try to fool you into continuing to feed the beast.
Hi. I’m new here. I’d like to tell you my history. And why I’m here now.
I first “fell in love” with someone at 15. A girl at school. I’d known her since I was 5. We’d never been close, but suddenly one day I knew (decided?) that I was in love with her because she was blowing me away. I indirectly told her – she never responded. Three years ago I saw her for the first time in 20 years. I was convinced I still had feelings for her. I found her on social media. I’ve managed through friends to find out things about her. “It’s fine, just interested in how’s life has turned out for her….” Yeah. Right.
This has gone on throughout my adult life. I’ve made a quick list of LOs, I think I’m up to about 6. I’m not entirely sure if they were all LOs, I’m still not entirely sure if they all meet the criteria, but there’s a definite strong case for each of them. With most of them (not all) I have admitted to myself, or told them, that I love/am in love with them. Not all, but most. Hence why I’m not sure if they all apply. At this point I will tell you that I am married. Have been for 20 years. Happily. I never, and have never, behaved as a Limerant towards my wife. Yes, I’ve read the article!
Although I don’t know for sure if all of these people were LOs, one thing that I have become increasingly aware of over the last few days, is that Limerence (I think) has caused me deep unhappiness 3 times during my marriage. The third one is happening now.
She is a work colleague. She is single. We started out as friends and quickly became “work besties”. It started less than a year ago. The friendship was largely initiated by her. I wasn’t particularly attracted to her (although I always thought she was very good looking, if that makes sense), and our “fun friendship” was largely instigated by her. I know that I felt safe because of the lack of overpowering attraction, and the fact that she wasn’t giving me any hint at first that she was attracted to me. Eventually, after-work drinks on a Friday started. She started telling me about things (some really intense) that had gone on and were going on in her own life. We were enjoying each other’s company. All fine. But then the little voice started: “Does she like you?” Over the next couple of months the question got louder and louder. Fairly early on I got hints that I was wrong, and then I asked her to meet me for a coffee, and she told me that she hoped that I wasn’t “going weird on her”. I was gutted. I’ve known for a few years that I have issues with rejection (following counselling). It was Friday night, I got drunk and wrote her a phantom note – never intending to send it, telling her how angry I was that she’d rejected me. Despite suspecting that was the case, I was crushed. I hadn’t been looking for an affair, and she still wasn’t setting my heart racing with her looks. But it hurt. A lot.
I can’t remember if it was at this point that I made the decision to pull away. I certainly knew enough about my past behaviours and patterns to be guided by them, but we kept being “mates” and I (tried) to carry on as normal. At some point in the next few weeks she moved house and invited me round to see it. I took her some flowers, with no alterior motive. When I got there she was a little subdued (I think she was a bit stressed after the move) and I wanted to comfort her. She became quite upset and she let let me hold her whilst she cried. She’s quite hard and finds it difficult to show emotion, so pulled away after a minute and we carried on chatting. She always gives me a hug on leaving and a peck on the cheek. I decided that I was going to see, once and for all, what this was. When I left, we hugged and as we went for the cheek kiss, I aimed for her lips. She said “oops” as though it was an accident and turned her face away. I just went with it. I don’t think that she ever suspected that it was intentional on my part. As I drove away from her house (my wife doesn’t know I’ve ever been there) I made a decision. That was it. I needed to pull away.
Over the next few days at work I kept my distance. We work in different offices so it was fairly easy, but I stopped chatting to her over Teams, and started avoiding meetings where we would usually “meet up”. I’ve read the articles on NC – this was the best I could do. Good, right? No. Not really. As I feared, she guessed that something was wrong. Sent me a teams chat saying that she felt I’d gone distant on her. I denied it, but she didn’t believe me. Her last remark was “whatever you say”. I felt dreadful. That evening, driven by guilt, I messaged her apologising for going distant. She asked me what was going on and I tried to give her hints. It took her about 15 minutes to realise that it was because I was having feelings for her. I apologised – she said it was ok and not to worry. She has never outright said that it’s not reciprocated, I think that’s only because she can’t bring herself to say it. She doesn’t need to. She came to see me in my office the day after and tried to make light of it. She asked me if I wanted her to give me distance. I’m afraid I said no. I basically went back to the start.
The weeks came and went. I tried to carry on as normal. On Christmas Eve we’d arranged to meet for a drink after work. She left me at work and went off with her colleague. I was furious. It still makes me cross. Friends? You don’t do that to each other. I was mad at her all over Christmas. I’ve never told her, but it still doesn’t feel resolved. A few things have happened that have led me to the conclusion that she is at least a little selfish, out for what she wants, and may even have some small narcissistic traits in some the things she says and does. Her and I would never work. And yet…
Reading the blogs, I am aware that I was blaming her for my limerence , the way that I have in the past with others. I know now that I mustn’t do that, that it’s not her fault. Yet I do wonder why she holds on to me, what she is getting out of it.
We’ve had a couple of arguments, the last one was a big one. When she got in touch the day after to see what had been wrong, I told her that the problem was that I love her. Her response was “I don’t know what you want me to say.” I apologised for my behaviour, she said that she was sorry for not appearing to take me seriously, and that she would never intentionally hurt my feelings. On the surface, we’re fine again. But my head and heart are truthfully far from fine. I’m in a lot of pain. I think about her pretty much non-stop. Not in a longing way, just in an obsessive and dependant way. I’m terrified that she is seeing someone. The thing is though, I’m still not feeling hugely physically attracted to her. Any fantasies that I start having about her almost always end up with someone else at the forefront. And yet the thought of her being with someone else makes me feel sick with anxiety.
I am trying to go NC as much as I can given our work situation. I have massively reduced the amount of times I initiate conversations in and out of work. I even leave my office at work at times when she’s likely to “just pop in”, because I genuinely can’t face seeing her. She seems oblivious to it. Over the last weekend and days since she has sent me Whattsapp messages far more than she normally does. And I really want her to stop, but I can’t say that to her, because I’m scared that she’ll be hurt, or think I’m an idiot. And, deep down, do I really want her to stop? I think so, however I have doubts. I’m really trying to stop whattsapp stalking her, to see when she was last active, or what profile picture she has up. It’s getting less, but it’s still a problem.
I’ve had a few days off work on leave. I suspect that’s partly why she’s been in contact so much. She “jokingly” asked me what she was going to do without me! That could be her motive for hanging on, right? I am actually dreading going back tomorrow. Not because of work itself, but because I know that she will come by to see her work bestie after his time off. I will spend most of the day hoping she doesn’t, and disappearing when I think she might.
I start counselling next week. I initially reached out for help to deal with the despair of having fallen in love with a lady at work – again. Except now I think it’s something different. It’s limerance, and a lifelong dependency on it and its feelings and sensations during the good phase.
I don’t lover her. I am obsessed with her. Or do I love her?
Sorry for rambling. I don’t even know if I’ve posted in the right place. I hope someone can make sense of this.
hi @just me and my obsessions
nice name btw, it made me laugh. I was just on here replying to a couple of the other limerents, and saw your first post – I will reply more later.
I too am in a 20 year relationship, and have been a limerent for many, many years (never for my significant other)…I have had 3 limerent episodes in the past 3 years…not my only ones…so I just wanted to reply right away to say you are NOT alone, and it is good you’re here…you will likely find that many people here do understand, and have limerent tendencies like you — over the course of their lives.
You are not alone – and you are doing the right thing trying to help yourself. I will post more later. You are asking good questions…and I just wanted to send a message of sympathy and support for all you are going through, right now. Limerence is horrible….it really is.
I’m sure others will pipe up soon, they’re a really supportive and emotionally sophisticated group, here.
with care,
csc
Thank you so much
“The thing is though, I’m still not feeling hugely physically attracted to her. Any fantasies that I start having about her almost always end up with someone else at the forefront. And yet the thought of her being with someone else makes me feel sick with anxiety.”
Just Me
I can relate to this statement more than I’d still like to admit. I get news on her life from present and former co-workers as LO was a former co-worker too, and recently found out that she has been with a man my age and they recently got engaged. It bothers me and I don’t know why. Well I do, but I like to feign ignorance.
Most all of my limerent fantasies were familial or platonic. I remember a dream, something I cannot consciously control, where my wife and I went on a double date with LO and the man she was with at the time. She too was single. I also get what you say about finding LO good looking but not being attracted physically to her. I feel the same.
For me I think that is what makes this kind of limerence even more dangerous because you don’t have the level of guilt (at least that you should have) for wanting to pursue a woman you are physically attracted to when you are married. “We are just friends.” “I enjoy her company.” Which can both be true in thought but difficult in practice. I knew outside of work meeting up and physical contact were out of bounds. And I don’t say that to judge you, I just know that despite feeling the relationship platonic …. well let’s just say I am NOT one of those “I can just have one drink” people. It was more of mistrust in my own self control than actually wanting to escalate anything intentionally.
You mentioned you’ve been married for 20 years so you are probably in my age group. I’m 47, been married 25 years with two adult children. Mid life has not been kind to me. And definitely a factor in my limerence. She was more than 10 years younger than me, divorced single mother, sweet, nice and very extroverted. I am very introverted yet this woman could somehow drag the extrovert in me I so continuously and desperately try to bury. Throw in a toxic ex, corporate throwing her to the wolves at work and a less than understanding supervisor and I was hooked. Dr L has a great post on the “hero complex” or “rescue complex”. And that is what cemented my limerence.
Welcome to the community and feel free to read and post. There are others here too with all kinds of different limerent experience and in all different stages of limerence.
Thanks so much, Adam. I know exactly what you mean by “I can’t just have one drink”, me to a tee. Thanks for your support. Looking forward to chatting further
I don’t think it’s useful to assume that she has bad intentions or character. I think she misses your friendship, but also understands that you’re married and have feelings and need to distance yourself.
Completely agree. Thank you
Just me,
Serial Limerent has a good point about the conflicting feelings your LO will be having now she knows your feelings for her, and how they may explain her push/pull actions. The oh-so famous “limerent dance” – we should make a video!
I’m a guy on the tail end of nearly two years’ limeremce for a coworker and friend.
You said an awful lot there that resonates, but I wanted to develop and perhaps normalise your point about where your fantasies go.
Although a physical element of ‘what could it be like if…?’ did veer into my fantasies and reverie, this only happened earlier on and then diminished to basically nothing on that front now. Guilt about my LE (I have a long term SO) also often got in the way of any such fantasies. I found LO physically attractive, certain parts exquisitely so, but that’s much different from conversion into full-on physical fantasies.
Contrast that with the emotional fantasies, of the fantasy life together, of having her on tap whenever I wanted – those were present all the way through and have only recently started to loosen a long grip on me. I think that side – the ‘longing’, ‘obsession’, the wanting to be there for and protect your LO, the pain when you’re out of contact – that’s much more typical of what the men on LwL say. Adam has already replied to you along these lines. We have other men here who swear there is no physical attraction at all, only emotional. I think this emotional fantasy is much more characteristic of limerence. ‘Longing’ or ‘person addiction’ are good synonyms for it. So I’m saying that all you are experiencing is quite typical.
In limerence we want the whole nine yards, not the one and done.
Thanks for that. What you have said makes total sense and really helps to frame some of it – especially the attraction/longing bit.
Hi JMMO,
Very interesting story that has a lot of parallels with my LE situation. I too fell hard for a coworker (I’m actually her employer) after a few years. One day I caught the vibe of attraction from her, I leaned into it a bit by being flirty back, and I fell hard into an LE very suddenly. This is my 3rd in life. I too am married, happily for almost 25 years. My LO is a bit younger woman and also married. She is in a difficult marriage so like a lot of men my rescue instinct kicked in big time.
For about 4 weeks this new found love was so euphoric as I flirted and got to know her better. But then I realized she had boundaries and was not reciprocating to my liking and my world came crashing down. Deep emotional turmoil followed and that’s when I found out about limerence. For the next 9 months I did the LE dance with her, pulling away, pushing closer, and generally confused about what her true feelings were for me. At times the attraction felt so intense between us and at other times she seemed so uninterested. It was killing me until I finally disclosed to her and found out she only felt friendship.
Since then it has been a slow disengagement from her. As of now we only have work related interactions as I have completely distanced myself from her personally. Because I have to coexist with her, this is the best scenario for me as being just friends with her causes me too much emotional turmoil. It’s actually a bit awkward now between us as I am sure she can tell I am actively distancing from her. Unlike your LO, she makes no effort to capture my attention. Yet at the same time she has never seemed put off by me either. If I engage her she will engage me also to an extent and I still can get attraction vibes from her.
When reading your story the main thought I had was that it seemed both you and LO were actively pursuing each other. Drinks after work, coffee dates, and hugs, and kisses on the cheek. These are not things normal work partners, even good work friends do, if one or both are married. Perhaps your wife is OK with it and in the know? But it seems you are willing to go down the EA and even PA road with this woman and so in respect of your marriage need to completely disengage on that fact alone.
Also, I’m not so sure I am willing to give your LO a pass either. Feels to me like she likes and desires your attention and is willing to manipulate you and play on your emotions to retain it. Fairly disrespectful way to act with a married man who wants to set boundaries.
But, I am not one to judge because these are all the things I pursued with my LO and would still pursue if she were willing. I think you are on a good path understanding you need to distance from LO, hopefully she can respect that too.
Hi Speedwagon
Thanks for getting in touch and your thoughts. Again, I can’t really disagree with you on most of it.
A further curve ball has been thrown my way today when she called me after work and said “I’ve missed seeing your face”. Now, I didn’t immediately open the champagne, or let myself get sucked in to the whole “she really wants me after all” trap, but it does emphasise what I said about my confusion about what it is she wants. As you rightly point out (and thank you for the supportive way you did) it’s hardly painting a picture of her as a total bystander. Clearly she gets something from me that she values. On one hand from the human pov, that’s lovely. As a Limerant, it’s really not helping.
Thanks again for your story and your thoughts. You’ve said much for me to ponder….
So today I feel deflated again. Wondering why I’m in this mess again. She gave me a birthday present and a card – why was I even in that situation?? And then I’m racked with guilt about being ungrateful. But knowing that she doesn’t want me the way I want her to is stabbing me in the heart.
Also, any advice on how I go NC (or minimal) would be much appreciated. Do I tell her or just withdraw? I have tried that but she doesn’t seem to take the hint – not that I help myself! As you’ve said, @SpeedWagon, what are her motives?? I’m confused, hurt and angry.
@JustMe
Hm. I am going thru the same thing. being NC with my LO has apparantly forced him into “let’s get together” mode. It’s infuriating.
I would say, lean into what you did before. I know, it can feel like a heavy weight to lift, doing that again, after she was in touch with a gift / messages, etc. But lean into not initiating contact, into keeping your distance because she overwhelms you.
Maybe this…tell yourself that the NEXT time she initiates contact (doesn’t have to be forever) but the NEXT time only, you will make a quick exit, or, give a very, very short reply, like a thumbs up, or an ok sign.
Maybe that…just the next time, then come back here and tell us how you feel after you do it….after you kind of turn away, to save your sanity.
This is not a sanctioned technique, I just thought of it. So, take it as you will.
It might work just to get you to the next thing.
csc
Just Me,
I say all this below from the standpoint of having a similar ‘bestie’ who I’ve gone through limerence for.
If you’ve had a good friendly vibe between you (even if limerence-driven – it has been there), then she’s bound to have enjoyed and liked that, and not want to let it go unless she has to – sorry if this is blunt, but who would really want to give something up that feels so good? You also said that she once asked you if she should give you space, and you said no. So she probably doesn’t feel a need to withdraw just yet, even after you confessed how you felt. I’m not saying she is doing entirely the right thing to keep pulling your string now, knowing you like her – but you might have to own the pulling back.
Remember – it is likely she isn’t thinking about all this stuff half as much as you are, if she’s not limerent. Not every decision about it causes her rumination etc. (It took me what seemed forever to really realise this).
It could be that she has some feelings in return, but it is pretty futile trying to find out, and could only cause harm, unless your feelings are something you’re prepared to act on and unless you can accept whatever response she gives. I know that will be hard to hear too.
You’ve probably got two choices if you don’t want it to continue as it is. You can’t go total NC because of your work situation. But you could tell her that your (already disclosed) feelings mean you need space, and say ‘could we cut contact down just to a professional level for now, to give me that space?’. I would only do that if you’d be really committed to the lower contact in the medium term, as it would be difficult to reverse on without it turning to chaos.
The other choice would just be to slowly stop doing the things that are fuelling the limerence, whether that’s texts, or co-work, or lunch/drinks invites, whatever it is. If you did that gradually with the aim of getting towards zero, she’d eventually take the hint, and maybe even start to help you with it more, depending on her character. It kind of leads to the same place as the first route but in a different way.
I carried on with my LE in a stasis for ages before I got around to something like the second option, with the help of my LO who I think “got it without it being said” and has acted well since. I wish you luck and courage, as I know none of this is easy when you’re in the throes of limerence. LO and I still have a solid professional friendship in the aftermath and my limerence feels much muted now. It took me a very long time to get here. The limerence research (Tennov) says 2-3 years is about normal and my last LE falls in that range. If you want rid of it quicker than that, you might have to try option 1. Complete NC is usually quickest of all (although the most painful at first?) but it sounds like wouldn’t be possible with your work.
Hope this gives you a few bits to think on about how you can best solve it. I’m happy to give more on how I have managed bits of this process (to varying degrees of success, from sometimes very low to now much higher) while having fairly constant and unavoidable contact with the LO, if it would ever be useful.
While I would love to be in your situation (Because I am very single and so are the Women I seek out)(LO, LF) I give you credit for trying to set a boundary. However this one feels treacherous to me. I feel like you’re riding a slippery slope into something that when/if it happens could end up biting you in the a$$. Although I am no expert.
Any Woman that is buying you things, and saying things like “I miss seeing your face” and just genuinely seeking you out is definitely trying to get your validation. Why she’s being so bold about it, then being aloof and still not returning your feelings seems callous. Almost toxic.
I advise strict LC at this point if you’re really trying to keep her distanced and keeping your sanity. I have a work situation with a female that I have to pull back from at times because my mind will get the best of me and I don’t want to crash.
She will probably try harder to get at you when you do this, but standing your ground and staying cordial to her while being passive and short in return is what I found works best in my scenario.
Let us know how this plays out..
Thanks everyone. @CsC – I got a Whattsapp tonight showing a bottle of beer and the word “cheers”. She’s been no alcohol for z2 weeks but was telling me today that she’s out tonight so would probably break it. I just replied “Enjoy!” And left it that. I don’t feel great about it, but yes – you’re right.
@LaR – you are right. She legitimately has no idea what is going on, and really won’t be thinking about it in the way it would be easy for me to assume that she does. The more I think about it, the more I’m sure that she is merely protecting the work friendship that gives her validation and some security. You are also right in that it is very difficult for me to expect her to “take the hint” when I have previously made it clear that just want to. However, as you say @MJ, she dies know how I feel, she claims to understand how hard it is for me, and yet does not even seem to be considering the fact that her actions and messages are causing yet more angst.
Thank you everyone.
As an aside – she was very clear that tonight she is out with a male friend. I really don’t think there’s anything going on as they’ve been friends since they were 11. Yet my Limerant brain is yelling “she’s going to the pub with him, then back to hers for a beer and a chat!! How lucky is he that he gets to spend that time with her??!!”. I know that’s the last thing I should be doing, and really I’m glad I’m not. But still….
Oh, and @LaR, thanks for the offer. I may well take you up on that.
Just me,
Now I have seen MJ’s reply and your latest post, I wonder if I wasn’t a bit soft on her earlier. Sometimes I can put a bit too much faith on LOs because mine has behaved pretty impeccably all through my LE. Not all do. Maybe yours enjoys the attention a bit too much? Have a look at this and see if it chimes:
https://livingwithlimerence.com/why-are-they-leading-me-on/
@LaR thank you for that. Some of it makes sense, however I can’t escape the memory that she’s always reacted very uncomfortably in these situations. I do agree that there would (unfortunately) appear to be some motive for making sure that I’m there, I’m just not sure how it fits those scenarios. And yet there would appear to be a certain “sneaky” motive for keeping me in sight, despite the fact that she knows how I feel, yet at least professes to be uncomfortable with it. Thanks for the article – it is definitely good for thought.
@LaR There is almost definitely an “enjoyment of attention” scenario, isn’t there?!
Yes, but it is hard to tell at a distance if that’s just the general human tendency to enjoy attention (per my earlier message about ‘why would she pull back?’) or if her treatment of you is veering into the unkind. I think you may need to be really clear with her (via one of the two routes I said earlier) and then see if she pulls back. It is easier said that done to convince one’s limerent self to do that though, I know.
Well done for not getting sucked into the texts tonight.
@LaR – thanks. It was hard, and I feel bad. But I knew it was the right thing to do.
I think it’s the simple fact alone that she is blatantly talking to you about her other guy friends and doing stuff with them, is very telling of the type of Woman she is. Perhaps it’s her way of saying she wants to keep things very casual. Yet she’s also not realizing the emotional mind-f@&! this is giving you. Her type doesn’t seem to care much for how that affects you. Which to me seems creul. Almost next level rude and insensitive. I’m sorry for how this makes you feel interiorly.
I’ve been there and it hurts. Really hurts.. I hope you are able to get a grip on the situation and distance yourself in a way that makes being at work less awkward. There are ways of maintaining strict LC but you have to stay vigilant on making it happen.. Focusing in more on SO is very good strategy also to get your mind elsewhere.
The advice from the others here is probably better than mine anyway, because I’m one of the lonely limerents here without a SO. I guess I’d be welcoming of having someone like your LO around orbiting me, but I’d probably manage to make myself crazy in the process again.. Does this madness never end??
I hope that you all don’t mind me sharing this – you are the only people who will understand. This morning I woke racked with anxiety and guilt, about the short response I sent to her last night. I’ve convinced myself that she’s taken it offensively.
On my way to the gym this morning I had to pull over. I was sobbing. I’m not far off now. I know I’m doing the right thing, but the prospect of her taking the hint and not ringing or texting me again is crucifying. I’ve been here before so many times in my life, and now knowing what causes it is a help, but not much of a comfort.
I’m out for lunch shortly with a friend – another female but absolutely no limerence – I want to tell her but I’m scared that she’ll think less of me. I’m a mess.
Thank you for listening.
Oh man, I broke down sobbing so many times that first year of my LE. I know that feeling of desire and guilt!
I don’t think I like this woman, feels like she is playing you. Maybe she is clueless but I doubt it.
I’m reminded of what once read from Dr L that has always stuck with me and that is, to paraphrase “LO is a source of pain, not peace “. For me, I made the decision to remove myself from the pain.
My strategy is to grey rock LO. I hope you find your best strategy.
Dear Justmeandmyobsessions,
I have been reading your posts and I feel for where you are at.
I think I come down on the side that this is not a ‘helpful’ LO. But the thing is that it does not matter either way because you are not free to pursue her anyway. The practical implication is that any texts, coffees, beers, etc. are probably a bad idea, right now. Don’t worry about her -she is going to be fine. She seems pretty resilient so far.
My LE is in the rear-view mirror but what I have learned is that, for us married limerents, we are not free to wonder at all about LO and their romantic motivations. Its simply irrelevant. Even friendship with our LOs is probably just romance by stealth and pursing a fake agenda. That’s something it took me a long time to grasp but its true (though I knew that I never actually wanted friendship, heck, I didn’t really even want him full-stop but I sure loved the validation he gave me, he made me feel like the most beautiful woman in the world).
I think that your future self will thank you for ‘grey-rocking’ your LO (as Speedwagon said). It can take a while to get there but you are in the middle of the hurricane right now and it will definitely get easier, especially if you make your mind up to take control of the situation.
Dear @speedwagon and @Bewitched. Thank you for your words, support and encouragement. I did decide to talk to my other friend today. She listened whilst I tried to explain all I’ve learned about limerancy (in a whole week!) she was very supportive and said pretty much what everyone has said. I felt so much better offloading to her.
@Speedwagon, I don’t escape the feeling that you are right. It keeps going back “why is she doing this?”, “what are her motives?” etc.
@Bewitched – Absolutely. It really is of no consequence. However I feel that I do need some focus on her motives because that will give me the strength to understand why she has this hold on me – although I am trying so hard not to hold her responsible as per Dr L’s “teachings”. I hope to be able to move to that once I’ve taken some control back.
I’d also like to say that I feel for you guys with your experiences too. I’m fully aware that it’s not just me; that limerence is a pain that we all feel. Thank you for stating your experiences with me.
Hi Just me,
I have read your original post and the replies properly now and I also think she’s playing you. Like Speedwagon and Bewitched mentioned (I paraphrase), it might be innocent, but probably not.
It sounds like she likes having men ‘orbiting’ her, and enjoys the attention. And she is maybe used to being able to have men do this. When you said you had feelings for her / loved her, then it became not something she wanted to deal with (that could be because you’re married rather than reflecting her having no feelings towards you). But she misses you being in her orbit, and now is working to keep you there.
You would be doing the right thing to go LC here. The initial pain of that will be excruciating, like you experienced yesterday with the texts. But that should still compare favourably to the prolonged (for goodness knows how long) pain if you keep fuelling the LE.
In terms of what you said about not blaming her for the limerence and looking inside yourself, a good question to start interrogating is ‘why did this LO glimmer for me then?’. Put each part into capitals one at a time to see the different angles that gives you onto it.
@LaR : “It sounds like she likes having men ‘orbiting’ her, and enjoys the attention. And she is maybe used to being able to have men do this.” You have no idea what a comfort it is to fear you saying that. Whilst being out walking this morning, the exact same thought hit me. She has a few male friends, and certainly does seem to enjoy having them “accessible”. Interestingly, I know that she has sent two potential romantic partners packing in the last few months, one because he was too “hard work” (I don’t know the specifics of the other one, but I know he sent her packing in no uncertain terms), so it can’t just be me.
There was a Whattsapp msg when I woke up this morning that she sent late last night, but I’ve heard nothing since. I’ve felt anxious again today but I am determined to stick with it this time.
Justme,
What’s mainly in these Whatsapp messages – is it innocuous or is she doing more ‘dancing’? I just don’t think she is going to take the hint and let go, so it looks like you will have to own the process. I don’t have massive experience of that part, as my LO (also single) backed off when the hint was in the air that my feelings were getting blurred, making it easier to turn the volume down (albeit, it took the best part of two years to get there). If you think yours does like having several male ‘orbiters’, maybe you can eventually feel a sense of pride at drawing a line and saying “I’m not going to be one of them – the other path is better for me”. It might take time to really believe that though.
I think it’s good that you told your other friend and got a listening ear. I haven’t really found many people in real life (i.e. outside of LwL) to talk to about it.
You said in your first post that you’re happily married. Assuming that you want it to stay that way … on an intellectual level it must be clear that continuing the LE leads to nowhere very good, but you are kind of waiting for the feelings to catch up? I was stuck at that point for quite a long time tbh.
How have you found it is affecting time with your wife with the pre-occupations in your mind about LO? This was one of the bits I struggled with the most. As much as I tried not to let the limerence affect the dynamics with my SO, I found that very difficult when in effect I had a third party living rent-free at the front of my brain. As I’ve started to turn and my limerence has reduced, I’ve been able to be more ‘present’ with my SO again. I’m really surprised she didn’t call me out on it all at some point, but I had to play on other ‘cover stories’ a fair bit for why I was feeling and acting down. I’m hoping for you that you can redirect some of what you’re experiencing, in her direction.
@LaR It’s a strange one, because on the face of it, you could look at them and say that – certainly this weekend – they have been innocuous. However,I’m conscious that all this weekend they have been memes about work, about how it drives us mad, bosses, etc. I have the strongest feeling that she is pulling these out of the air in order to ensure that there is contact of SOME sort, almost “he’s gone quiet, so I’ll send him these safe messages to test his reaction”, without putting herself out there, and leaving herself vulnerable. I hope that makes sense, but it’s important so I’ll try to explain further if it would help.
“If you think yours does like having several male ‘orbiters’, maybe you can eventually feel a sense of pride at drawing a line and saying “I’m not going to be one of them – the other path is better for me”. It might take time to really believe that though.” Yes, I’m becoming more convinced that this is the case. I’m a reflector by nature, and as I’ve weighed up this LE so far, not only is it an obvious feature, but it also explains some of my biggest LE triggers around uncertainty.
My SO is going through her own trials atm, so I’m managing to at least partly justify my own dip in mood by the concerns I have for her – which is the truth. However, this is of course only part of the story.
LO: it does strike me that her messages this weekend have been specifically about the one thing that she has been able to pretty much guarantee to get a conversation going: work. It’s almost as though she’s trying to get me communicating – and the easiest way yo do that is to go for something safe. I hope that makes sense.
I’m sorry that you feel that you don’t have anyone outside this forum. I hope you believe me when I say that I for one am all ears should you need it.
JustMe,
Yeah because even a meme about work still says ‘you’re on my mind’, doesn’t it? (Been there!).
I’m not short of people to chat to, but most of my closer friends know one or both of SO or LO, and that feels risky (does your friend who you told?). I tried with a couple of friends a while ago but they weren’t much help. Without the foundation of understanding limerence, ‘I have an addiction to person X’ can just sound to their ears like ‘I want an affair’. One of them even practically went that road of suggesting I should have one 🤦♂️
On the other hand the people in this forum were and are great – they nearly all get it through lived experience.
I’m doing OK. My LE peaked last spring-summer and has plateaued then tailed off since. I’m now dealing mainly with bits of the aftermath – things like residual energy depletion from being in the altered state for a long time, the ‘beigeness’ of having the colour of the LE removed, and doing all this with LO a frequent presence in my life/work and trying to find new ‘terms of engagement’. I think this could all take a while to hack my way clear of.
Mine is not your typical case for several reasons. I had been friends with her for many years before I got limerent (predates even me knowing SO). She has behaved pretty well throughout the LE. At times I have wondered if she has egged me on, but it is all within that murky grey zone of ‘stuff friends could reasonably do and say that a limerent brain can turn into so much more’, so I prefer to give her the benefit of the doubt (and she scaled back on anything like that when it obviously became needed, without being unfriendly).
I do still want to maintain the friendship, as I believe on some level that’s legitimate despite the LE. But I have had to lower the bar on what the friendship can be. And already I am over feeling that it is the be-all and end-all to stay good friends. If it’s not possible I would now feel ‘that’s a great shame’, whereas a few short months ago the idea would have felt like a disaster / end of the world.
I hope you can find a good way through all this – it can take trial and error.
@LaR: “ Yeah because even a meme about work still says ‘you’re on my mind’, doesn’t it? (Been there!).” My feelings exactly.
I am sorry that you’ve found it difficult to unload on friends. I suppose that it must be very difficult for people who don’t know about/understand this Limerence business, however it’s a shame that they can’t see through the fog. Please rest assured that you now have one more person here who will always be ready to listen.
Interesting what you say about how you would view the end of your friendship with your LO as “a shame” rather than the end of the world. I now firmly believe that I would view any ending of my acquaintance with my LO in the same way.
Predictably, I got the phone call on the way to work this morning, telling me all about her night out with her male friend, and then just off loading all of her work stresses. Later in the day we had a small argument about something work related, and I know that she isn’t happy with me. I’ve apologised and said that I will learn from it, but I’m strangely relaxed about where it will go next. I’ve even concluded that if she now decides to ease off – a) what does that say about how she really values our “friendship” and b) she would have done the work for me! A week ago, I would have been panic stricken!
To answer your questions…
I’ve been diagnosed with slight depression, bad ADHD, and chronic anxiety. Medicated for all.
I have PTSD from birth (You can ask about this one) and I have one serious phobia.
I also have a tendency for slight OCD.
I’ve had 5 LEs so far.
When I look at it in print, I look like a looney.:-)
Being limerent seems to have no effect on my other conditions.
The “altered state of mind”, obsession, and emotional pain are very strong.
The “altered state of mind” happens only with limerence. It is seriously like someone removed a module in my brain and plugged in a different one. It is very freaky for lack of a better term.
I’m 76, but thinking back, I had my PTSD and ADHD before my first LE, but I think there is no date correlations.
Hope this helps… Not afraid of statistics so I if you have questions, ask away!
Thank you for addressing this. I have been wondering about it.
I think I probably have ADHD (maybe AuDHD) but see no point to pursuing a diagnosis at this point in my life. My dad (b.1953) almost certainly has it and my daughter has it. Various family members also have autism, dyslexia and dyspraxia. Largely our needs are not behavioural or academic. I would like to understand more about a possible link for my daughter as well as myself.
• I do not think limerence changes other symptoms but can reframe them. I might be able to focus better on mundane tasks if I think LO will notice, so that’s an improvement!
• I know my ability to make rational decisions regarding my LO is severely impeded but it’s the same as usual regarding everything else. This is quite stressful, but maybe worth mentioning I do not have OCD, anxiety or depression.
Rejection sensitive dysphoria has been a challenge for me in all areas of my life but is particularly bad if LO doesn’t message me back or if I think I have made an idiot of myself in front of them.
• I have hyper-focussed on a few different things throughout my life and right now it’s a person, instead of an interest or hobby. Being limerent feels very much like ADHD hyper-focus to me. I have also hyper-focussed on LO’s field of interest.
• I did not know much about ADHD until my daughter’s teacher approached me to discuss the possibility of her having it. The more I learn about it, the more I can see it applies to me too and it must have affected me as a child. As I was not disruptive in school and achieved well enough academically, it was not noticed. I had a teenage crush which could maybe be called limerence but the really problematic episode is more recent and we are both married to other people. I think, therefore, that limerence started after ADHD but not by much.
• I think they are linked because even before I was married, I created my own barriers to relationships by way of Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria. The hyper-focus thing is also such a similar experience.
There may be helpful articles on Additudemag.com – there has definitely been things about addictive behaviours and RSD.
Not sure if they also do a podcast – good luck with that!
(from new readers posts)
Hi… My name is Bill and I’m a Limerent… Been sober for about 2 months…
I’m a 76 year old widower, retired male and deal with limerence as an old enemy. I’ve recently recovered from my 5th, and worst episode of limerence. You would think that at 75 your brain might respect your age… But NO.
After 35 years my wife passed away late summer of 2023. My grief was horrible. Two months after that, my limerence decided to emerge and find a victim (aka LO). And two months after that, a young, trembling voiced, pulmonologist whispered to me that I had lung cancer. My stoicism was blowing fuses faster than I could replace them. Grief, Cancer and Limerence… and the limerence, believe it or not, was psychologically the worst of the lot. As you may have guessed, my LE is almost devoid of elation.
Limerence never happens when I am married or in a relationship. Maybe I should practice the simple logic in that statement. I would be in a peaceful, slow time of my life, and like lightning on a sunny day… Zap! Welcome to the dark side!
I better explain that my LEs are always “clean”. By that I mean the LE involves only myself and the LO. Never a wife, husband, ex, etc. Makes it simpler? Maybe.
High School was the setting for two of my first episodes. Like this period is not stressful enough. My grades even took a hit. It disturb me so bad, I really though I would die before age 20. This was circa 1964.
My last recent LE was very dark and ugly. So I attacked the internet with a vengeance and found I was not mentally ill! Arming myself with the information I find here, I dare LE to go on the offensive again.
I’ve tried to keep this condensed. Questions, comments are very welcome.
Sorry, A writer I am not.
Care to All…. Bill
Hi Bill,
You seem like a very good writer to me. Your post moved me to respond (most don’t) with praise, sympathy, and a question. The praise I’ve already delivered, but it’s also unusual and striking that your limerence never occurs in a context which would betray a loved one (yours or another’s). The sympathy: what a trifecta of misery. My heart goes out to you. I hope the pulmonologist also whispered that your cancer may be treatable/curable.
And the question: Can you elaborate a bit on this fascinating statement: “Grief, Cancer and Limerence… and the limerence, believe it or not, was psychologically the worst of the lot. ” Can that really be true? Worse than grief for a beloved spouse, worse than cancer? Why is that? Maybe because you can do nothing about those other ordeals except see them through, i.e., there is very little uncertainty involved?
Hi Niniane,
I’m glad to see your response, thank you.
After reading various entries on this site, I feel relieved that my LEs did not affect a third party. A very welcomed bit of luck.
I knew there was a good chance the diagnosis would be lung cancer, but the young pulmonologist with soggy eyes needed some attention. Felt like it was maybe her second patient notification of the big “C”. Naturally wanted to give her a big hug, but used some calming words instead. I think it helped.
Soon to be cancer free, my steam pressure is up and I’m ready to be put back on the rails. Thanks for asking.
The question you asked fully verifies that the message was translated properly. “Can that really be true?” Absolutely! Can’t speak for everyone of course, but seems like I have X amount of grey matter for emotions. My spousal grief… OK. + Limerence… OK + Big “C”… emotional overflow. After the cancer news, my mind went numb, I felt more relaxed, and almost no anxiety. But after a week or so, the emotions and anxiety came back with Limerence way out in front with a few fluctuations and has remained until a few month ago.
I still remember being in a special recovery room after cancer surgery. It’s general anesthesia of course, so at first light of consciousness you are totally wiped out. As soon as my brain wheels start turning, the very first thought is of… anyone like to fill this in?… You guessed it, my LO. Not even general anesthesia could scramble the effects of LE.
Hope this helps a bit Niniane.
Dear Billybob,
I am very sorry to hear that you lost your wife. That must have been hard. I have only ever been properly limerent once and it was during a period of terrible family health problems and trauma. I have a question, if you don’t mind? You said that that your 5th LE after your wife died was the worst one and was ‘very dark and ugly’, devoid of elation. Do you think that falling into that LE was in any way related to the grief? That you might have used it as a coping strategy?
The reason I ask is because I believe that this is what happened to me. The difficulties I was going through eventually resulted in more than one death (one of them very traumatic). I was limerent the entire way through and it definitely helped me. I self-medicated with it, almost to the point where I sometimes feel as I though I should thank my LO for saving me – that is, preventing me from going where I really did not want to go in my mind. [I am never actually going to do that, of course].
If you look back at other LEs, did they happen at times of distress in your life?
I see in your post to Niniane that your cancer has been treated and it sounds as though you are on the road to recovery – how marvelous. And that your LE is also waning. If so, and if the limerence is associated with bad times, perhaps you can learn your triggers. Apologies if I am being simplistic and all the best to you.
P.S. I just came across this blog post on limerence and grief. I remember reading it at the time and being in the thick of it all myself. It brings back memories.
https://livingwithlimerence.com/on-grief/
Hi Bewitched,
Sorry to hear of what sounds like, multiple losses.
Wow! Interesting how your LO/LE displaced your unwanted thoughts. Even though your experience wasn’t exactly planned, it seemed to work well for you. I’m kind of jealous, but I got to love an LE story with a happy ending.
And yes, I think there was a link between the grief and the LE. Never even thought of using it as a coping strategy. However, there seems to be an automatic coping mechanism somewhere in my small brain, or anybody’s brain. There is no way I can keep grief, limerence and cancer as the top processes in my mind all at once. So in effect, my mind time shares those emotions. OK!? Alright!? Starting to smell funny… Like BS. Next Paragraph!
My previous LE’s would rear it’s head at very tranquil times in my life except for High School which can be considered somewhat stressful at the time.
I’m a newbie to this site and haven’t read as much as I would like, but did go to your link, and yes… very familiar territory.
I like your name. Bewitched is very synonymous with limerence.
Your not being simplistic and thanks much for your post. Take Care.
In my world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes, and limerence. (sorry Ben)
Long time limerant and ADHD-er here. I’ve thought about this a lot and I’m sure there is a strong correlation between my ADHD symptoms and tendency towards limerance (and worse, susceptibility to affairs).
These include:
– poor impulse control, and indulging in behaviour I know is bad for me because it provides a reward/dopamine hit
– a tendency to daydream/fantasise, rather than be present in the moment
– a need to seek novelty, inability to stay content for long with the same job/partner/house etc
– related to the above, tendency to hyperfixate and become obsessive about new interests (including people).
Obviously not everyone with ADHD is a limerant or likely to have affairs, but I do think it probably makes you more susceptible. My Dad also has ADHD (and was diagnosed with NPD when he was younger) and has ended three marriages because of his affairs. Yikes. I am trying not to follow in his footsteps, but it does feel like I’m fighting my own cursed hardwiring sometimes.
Hi, Maggie,
Welcome to LwL!
Being a child of a narcissist can be very challenging. My last LO claimed her father was a narcissist. She’s a PsyD so she’s qualified to make that call. She had a blind spot for Narcs. I don’t know that she ever met one that she didn’t try to rehabilitate.
I recommend you check out these blogs from Shari Schreiber. I really like her work.
https://sharischreiber.com/do-you-love-to-be-needed/
https://sharischreiber.com/inside-attention-deficit-disorder/
I loved your video and graphics! Thank you, Dr L!
I’ll try to answer your questions. For reference, I was diagnosed with OCD as a teenager. As an adult, I was diagnosed with ADHD. I don’t know how everyone experiences OCD and ADHD, but for me, it isn’t always a struggle. Currently, my obsessions and compulsions don’t cause distress for anyone and I can focus on whatever needs my attention for the most part. It’s kind of like being a limerent. Sometimes you have limerence and sometimes you don’t. Right now, I am not struggling with limerence, OCD or ADHD so to answer your questions, I will focus on times when I was struggling. I hope that makes sense.
1. Does being limerent change the symptoms of your other condition?
Yes? Maybe? I was in a clinical depression when limerence woke me up. I don’t know if my depression had anything to do with ADHD or OCD.
2. Are some limerence symptoms especially strong for you?
Rumination and intrusive thoughts were strong for me.
3. Does the altered state of mind of limerence resemble the altered state of mind of the other condition?
OCD – I don’t think so.
ADHD – it doesn’t feel the same. The intrusive thoughts while I was limerent were far more distracting than my ADHD.
4. Did limerence set in about the same time as your other condition, or did they begin at different ages?
Different ages, definitely not at the same time. Not even close.
5. If you do feel that limerence is linked to another condition, can you explain why you feel that way?
I suspect that Borderlines are more vulnerable to becoming limerent because they experience intense emotions.
The UK podcast “Not as We Planned” would be an absolutely perfect place to discuss limerence and to promote the book. Tash and Carly are really lovely and I’m sure would welcome you!
I’m still in some kind of shock that a whole website, blog, videos and books are here for me to access about this thing that has taken over such massive chunks of my life. I honestly felt for years that I was just a deviant and that there was no one else experiencing this. To find a whole community of like-minded people and to find out that maybe half the people I meet have also been hiding this yearning is mind-blowing to me.
In answer to your main question, yes I do have comorbidities. I have exhibited symptoms of borderline personality disorder for about 20-25 years (I’m now 47). I have struggled with the stigma attached to this for most of my adult life. I have also recently started to realise that I have an anxious attachment disorder, though I have not explored this yet.
I stopped drinking alcohol 20 years ago and would consider that I have a very addictive personality. I have experienced PTSD after a traumatic first childbirth and I suffered postnatal and perinatal depression and anxiety around my second and third pregnancies, resulting in a 3 month stay in a Mother and Baby Unit after experiencing psychosis following the birth of my third baby during covid.
I have been psychiatrically hospitalised 7 times in my life – 4 times for depression and self harm, once in a therapeutic community, once for anorexia and once for postnatal depression and psychosis.
Well, Ellie, you’re definitely not alone.
I recommend that you read the Shari Schreiber link I posted above.
https://sharischreiber.com/do-you-love-to-be-needed/
Some of it might resonate with you.
I did read this, thank you! I resonated with a lot of it. This and some other things I’ve read have given me some tools to start to approach the issue with my therapist. I got pretty close to telling her this week, but felt myself shut down and so kept it more vague. I’ve not asked her if she has heard of limerence yet, but I’m hoping to do that next week and then see where it takes me.
I can’t let go of the therapy yet, though I do know that this might need to happen if my limerence gets too overwhelming. I actually can see that telling her might make it dissipate, so I’m going to try that before I terminate our sessions and go NC.
Thank you again for replying to my comments.
I have been diagnosed with mild depression and anxiety, but I don’t know if there is any connection with limerence. I have only had two really intense limerent episodes in my life. My current one hit me unexpectedly and was extremely unwelcome. I am 72 and have been divorced for just over 20 years. I don’t date and was not looking for a man. I have a friendship with my LO, who is gay, but I am far more interested in spending time with him than he is with me. I am finding that the relationship may be causing me more pain than I can handle, so I am trying to avoid him. He will be selling his house and moving a long distance away within a matter of months, and frankly, I think it’s all for the best.
This is all too exhausting, and ultimately unrewarding.
“Does being limerent change the symptoms of your other condition?”
It accelerates or enhances my already existing anxious attachment issues. Found someone you like to be around? Someone whose company you enjoy? Well, she’s gonna leave you so enjoy it while you can. Everyone leaves you at some point.
“Are some limerence symptoms especially strong for you?”
I guess I would say the initial attachment, the glimmer. It was like “that” drink that finally gets you “there” and you are in euphoria. Your reasoning out the door. Your inhibitions gone. She went from a pleasant co-worker to the closest thing to Eve thing mankind will ever see. Now when that point in knowing her actually was I would say I could make a good guess but honestly couldn’t pinpoint it 100%.
“Does the altered state of mind of limerence resemble the altered state of mind of the other condition?”
Actually I think it changed my then mild attachment fears. At the time I’d been with my wife for 22 years and I was finding solid ground to not have to worry she would leave for someone better. So limerence basically took all the progress I had made and threw it out the window as far as she was concerned. Leaving me back at square one with the anxious attachment with my wife and starting my anxiousness with fresh with her. I now feared two women I had affection for would find someone better. So now it was twice as bad trying to juggle two relationships.
“Did limerence set in about the same time as your other condition, or did they begin at different ages?”
I think my anxious attachment started in childhood. I had very loving, yet distant parents. My mother had high expectations for me despite being very affectionate. My father was there as a father should be. Provider, protector; but he struggled with expressing emotion. So while I was cared for in practical ways as parents should I still felt alone. And since then I have tried to fill that void. That my wife and I were struggling in our marriage before she came around, limerence filled that void of feeling alone again.
“If you do feel that limerence is linked to another condition, can you explain why you feel that way?”
I don’t feel that limerence, at least in my case, is linked to my anxious attachment. In my case I feel it was just a number of factors that all fell together at the right time. Trying to find a place in our marriage again where I felt wanted (and when I mention my marriage I am in no way saying this was all on my wife, it was a shared struggle of both of our faults), hitting middle age and looking back longingly to the “good old days” and being uncertain about the future. And then here she comes. Making me forget about all my troubles and being able to be in that altered state of mind that felt so good.
Hi Dr L,
This is an interesting question (mental health & limerence connections) so I wanted to add my answers to your questions.
“Does being limerent change the symptoms of your other condition?”
I think that I suffer from (mild) OCD. My OCD flares when I am anxious. Limerence didn’t necessarily make my OCD worse. Actually, I would say that my anxiety lifted when was limerent as I was mostly very happy. Even when limerence ‘went bad’ and I decided that I wanted out of it, limerence was a net positive experience in changing the way I was headed in life. So anxiety probably reduced, overall.
“Are some limerence symptoms especially strong for you?”
Rumination. I am an enthusiastic ruminator, at the best of times, but limerence caused this to go to a whole new level. Most of the time, LO-rumination was not as anxiety inducing as my regular rumination, so I am not sure that this aspect particularly harmed me, in fact it was probably a good coping strategy for other traumas happening at the time.
“Does the altered state of mind of limerence resemble the altered state of mind of the other condition?”
I wouldn’t have thought so, no. My OCD is definitely anxiety-related. It gets worse when I am under stress and I would not have said that it got worse when limerence started up.
“Did limerence set in about the same time as your other condition, or did they begin at different ages?”
Separate times.
“If you do feel that limerence is linked to another condition, can you explain why you feel that way?”
I don’t think it is, to be honest. For me, I only had one LE and it was a doozy. It took years and years to clear. But it served a clear function in my life – to self medicate out of some very stressful and traumatic life events; and secondly, to reassess what was important in my middle age.
Songs of the Blog:
“Crazy” – Patsy Cline (1961)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrhFH4UTrw0
I really like this song. I played duet of it, him on bass clarinet, me on oboe.
“Crazy Love” – Poco (1978)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIZt2uyu4-4
“Crazy On You” – Heart (1976)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADAeIokKKNs
The last two songs are associated with LO #1.
And, this from DrL:
https://livingwithlimerence.com/and-i-want-you-so-its-an-obsession/
It’s one of my favorite blogs. If you’re a Eurythmics fan, there are more songs in the comments.
Omg! How funny, that Eurythmics song is one of my favorite songs ever! My Dad used to love Annie Lennox…and I’ve known that one since I was a pre-teen. It used to feel almost illicit to listen to it. To me the little uh’s in that song are so important. The words are true and I internalized them for sure, but then the uh’s are like…from this deeper place – a physical place, something so deep there are not words at that point. A masterpiece.
@CSC,
Ask Dad if he remembers this one.. It’s one of their underrated classics. I love this one. Plus Annie’s voice on this is superb..
-Eurythmics
“It’s alright” (Baby’s coming back)
https://youtu.be/gf_OsStVpzs?si=FmRZVQmqpr8LJ2cJ
It strikes me as funny how limerence is supposedly quite rare, but there is so much music and art that seems to explore themes relating to limerence. Many songs make me think of my LOs, the life altering state that is limerence and the mental state of wanting someone so badly it hurts, but the following two are the most profound and come closest to describing actual limerence:
Stricken, by Disturbed. Even the singer mentioned that this song is about being completely infatuated with someone. A few years back, someone else mentioned that the lyrics are absolutely spot-on in describing the insanity of limerence:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I77mjesUbkw
Can’t Shake You, by Santers. This is about having a serious infatuation over someone and being unable to get over her. The band isn’t that well known, but I think it’s a great 80s classical rock song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xyr6eIdRsQQ
I remember Stricken. Didn’t realize it was about limerence. 🙂 (It is hard for me to understand a lot of rock lyrics, anyway, between the poetics and the loud guitars. 🙂 )
And oh yes, the Eurythmics song. 🙂
This says it all for me…
https://youtu.be/lX0ws6y7p5g?si=MzQxpjfTcdbUdgTP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjwkXYB4nHs
3:51
“I’m a driver, I’m a winner
Things are gonna change, I can feel it”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgSPaXgAdzE
Since we’re all going crazy here, I’ll add one of my common 80s faves.
Tired, overplayed and so popular at the time, but who could forget..
-Madonna
“Crazy for you”
https://youtu.be/DHutZXREZ0E?si=oW7BaR36T7HxHT2d
Perfect words for the limerent. Not to mention her voice is magnificent here and she looked so good too.. 😂
I have never been diagnosed with anything. But I have a family history on my father’s side. He was diagnosed with depression. To this day I wonder if he was bipolar. He had dramatic mood swings, explosive anger, and then had to go to bed for days after a breakdown. This happened often. Very. I used to dread setting him off. I am depressed sometimes. My depression comes with anxiety (or vice versa).
Does being limerent change the symptoms of your other condition?
I do feel euphoria, to start, and when I get a “dose”. My mind alive with possiblities, spinning with the delicious challenges and possiblities….But…after a time of intermittent reward, uncertainty, etc… my depression and anxiety go off the chart. The final days of LE’s are grey, then black, black days. I’ll be in a stupor of worthlessness for a while.
Are some limerence symptoms especially strong for you?
Euphoria: I once walked home after time with an XLO to a street 2 blocks from my house. In my mind, I was walking to that street, to that spot, to go “home.” …but I had never lived on that street. No idea why I thought I did. It was 2 blocks from where I actually lived. I was so out of my mind with bliss I forgot where I lived, actually thinking I lived somewhere else, close, but not accurate. I have also been known to put milk into the cupboard instead of the fridge, lose things, and otherwise do disturbing, forgetful things, during limerence – not just in the euphoric stage, but throughout.
Intrusive thoughts: Yes, all the time. Everything I do, everything I see, every choice I make, begins to spin outward from LO’s centerpoint. They are on my mind all the time. I see something beautiful, I want to show them. I have a thought, I want to know what they would think. I look at myself in the mirror, I try to see myself through their eyes…this lasts til the end-phases of limerence, until I start coming back to myself. It’s like a constant thing. The intrusive thoughts can be fantasies, or they can be horrible anxious thoughts…where is LO, what are they doing, did I do something…very negative. But they go on and on.
Does the altered state of mind of limerence resemble the altered state of mind of the other condition?
Yes, it resembles anxiety, in that it’s like a snowball-effect. My brain will not stop spiraling on things that have not happened. Either fantasies, or what-ifs…it’s horrible. But it’s not exactly like anxiety…anxiety is a component. It gets bigger and bigger, taking everything over.
Did limerence set in about the same time as your other condition, or did they begin at different ages?
I don’t remember. I have had troubles all my life. I think limerence set in as a kind of…habit….in my teens. If I really think about it, I think I began to engage in it as a way to focus on something. My first LO wasn’t even someone I was attracted to. He was just…there. And I needed something to do. I would use LO’s reactions to me as a kind of challenge…almost a game. I had a very stressful home-life, and socially, I felt often like a reject. I guess I used an LO as a way to challenge myself to be accepted…for instance, every night, I would write in my journal, what happened with LO that day, and then, make a plan for the next day, what I would wear and do…to try and have success. I enjoyed trying to put on my makeup, do my hair, make myself presentable and attractive. Could I be attractive *enough* to get what I wanted? ….It kept me busy. It was not hellish, though. Just…engrossing. Now that I am in middle age, this behavior isn’t quite the same. But, it’s hellish now. It’s truly, truly torture. It’s not just about whether I am attractive enough. I am falling in love with my LO’s and then having to fall out. It’s not a game, unless you call falling into a dark hole and clawing out a game.
If you do feel that limerence is linked to another condition, can you explain why you feel that way?
Aaggh. It’s linked to everything, with me. Anxiety, depression…grief. I think it’s also linked to just…my desperation (chronic) to finally be wholly loved and accepted. To not be a total reject. I don’t know much about attachment theory…from what I do know, I think I never really felt love/acceptance from either of my parents. It pains me to say this. They tried. But I think they were also damaged, and never really saw me as a child, who could not help herself. My home was unstable, but weirdly stable in that I knew my Mom would never leave. She would sacrifice me, to stay with Him. My childhood was very, very lonely, and I have been lonely all my life. While I’ve had “friends”, I believe most people can’t truly be trusted, so best not to put too much faith in them. However “normal” people manage to have love, or families, I cannot imagine.
I am coming to feel what I am suffering from is a kind of….lifelong grief. I am working hard to learn more about it, to maybe even heal myself, if I can. I am not totally negative…but I struggle against it every day. I believe there is a future for me. I actually believe I can help myself- even if I have to do it alone. But, I also feel I am up against some heavy, heavy stuff. I am not sure if I could even handle “healthy” love. It might repel me.
In a way, my lonely path is my strength. I have strong inner knowledge and resolve. Life is poetic, I am able to understand others suffering, deeply, to see very deeply into a certain part of existence. But the price: I struggle.
So, there you go, Dr. L! oof.
Beyond neurodivergence, I don’t think I have any kind of mental health issues that would affect limerence. (The neurodivergence probably does.) My SO, however, is undiagnosed but even he has wondered if he’s bipolar. I think that’s what helps drive my own limerence. I keep ending up with guys who have some kind of issue—bipolar or NPD or the like—and then I have crushes on guys who also have some kind of issue. Then an SO or LO treats me badly and my heart turns to someone who seems kinder, at least at the time. Sometimes they are; sometimes they aren’t. I don’t know why I keep falling for guys with issues. 😛 (Maybe the neurodivergence makes it harder to detect in time?) Then I married one, so I’m kind of stuck. Last two LO’s have been very nice to me to this day, are good, longterm friends (and latest LO is mutually attracted).
PDA autism profile where “people obsessions” take the form of autistic special interest. ADHD hyperfocus. And then limerence. Beautiful combination… Had my first limerence experience when I was 11 and have had too many to count since then. Also, some confusing queer elements involved in my case, which is why I would love to get to read some insights on how e.g. internalized homophobia triggers limerence…
This. My LOs have always been women, though I consider myself a heterosexual woman. 9 years of marriage to a man and 3 children, but still hopelessly infatuated with women who “look after” me. Either I’m actually gay or I just have major mummy issues.
This is very similar to the story of my life! Been together with my heterosexual husband for 25 years, three children. And the objects of my limerence are always women, older than myself! I am assuming I am not straight myself, but since I just had a recent infatuation with yet another adorable older woman, I am at the moment wondering if I could actually have been lesbian all the time and the limerence episodes would be a symptom of this. Fascinating to hear someone could relate, even partly! This has been unbelievably confusing to me, all my life, and still is. And I suffer.
Hello PJ.
It’s so nice to hear from someone else who has experienced this. My LOs have been teachers, doctors, nurses, therapists. Always women.
I did try exploring my sexuality when I was in my twenties, but I’m quite repressed and struggle to articulate my needs so it just felt too overwhelming. When my husband came along, I was just relieved to be able to be “normal” and not worry about it any more.
Unfortunately, I still fell in limerence for at least 3 women while married.
We split up last year and my mum died and I have recently started therapy. The therapist is exactly my “type” and I was a bit wary from the start but it seemed to be ok until recently, the glimmer has started. I’ve decided to broach it with her and am trying to do exactly that but have so far spent 2 sessions only really talking about attachment and childhood unmet needs. I’ve also tried to find out if she will need to stop our sessions and I think she won’t.
It is so hard because I know I need to bring this to therapy as it’s fundamental, but it is also terrifying as the feelings are developing. However, it would be less meaningful therapy if the feelings weren’t there and I am really starting to trust her.
Ellie,
” My LOs have been teachers, doctors, nurses, therapists.”
Don’t get me started on nurses. I married a teacher and, LO #2 & LO #3 were nurses and LO #4 is a PsyD. We have similar tastes.
Have you ever considered your attraction to them? IMO, it’s something worth exploring.
Did you read the article I linked to your post above? I’m curious as to what you might think of it.
Using the disclaimer that I’m not a mental health professional, I do have some questions.
– What was your childhood like?
– Do you have unresolved trauma in your past?
– Do you have a goal in mind for therapy? Dr. Marion Solomon contends that when many people enter therapy, they’re not seeking true change, they’re seeking to become comfortable in their current pathology.
Some therapists are better than others. Only ~10% of any iceberg is visible above the surface and it isn’t what you can see that sinks you.
Best of luck!
(Sorry if there’s any mistakes, English isn’t my first language.)
I’m 18 and I was recently diagnosed with autism. I’ve had a few “proto-limerence” experiences, but I’m currently going through what I would consider my first actual LE.
My autistic traits became more obvious when I was 12-13. That happens to be around the same time I started experiencing proto-limerence. My special interest was (and still is) music, so I would spend a lot of time daydreaming about that. The daydreaming has only gotten worse since I met LO.
Does the altered state of mind of limerence resemble the altered state of mind of the other condition? Kind of. Autism already makes it hard to approach other people and predict their behavior. Add the altered state of mind of limerence to that… I will spend hours trying to think of the right thing to say to impress LO and rehearsing conversations that end up never happening.
If you do feel that limerence is linked to another condition, can you explain why you feel that way? At least with autism, I guess being obsessed with someone could be interpreted as a special interest. But that’s just my case.
“I will spend hours trying to think of the right thing to say to impress LO and rehearsing conversations that end up never happening.”
Aria
I can’t speak for autism, but as an introvert I can much relate to this. I triple thought out, went over scenarios, over thought past interactions with her. I agonized over every single thing I said, was going to say, what I did and what I was going to do. It was exhausting. But I had to say and do everything perfectly because limerence told me she was perfect. So I couldn’t be any less than perfect for her.
It’s been almost 3 years since she left my life. And I am still at times plagued with intrusive thoughts of what would I do if I ever saw her again. What would I say to her? Would a friendly hug be out of line? How would she react to seeing me? Would she even remember me? What if you weren’t wearing the perfect outfit?
Yeah it sucks. But don’t let an old man get long winded. Just wanted to say reading your post that statement really stood out to me and want to say I know how you feel to a degree.
A tribute to Roberta Flack (1937-2925)
“The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face” (1972)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSrKff0w6CU
My favorite:
“Killing Me Softly” (1973)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEbi_YjpA-Y
R.I.P.
ha – omg @Limerent Emeritus I was going to post “The First Time…” here today, too!
IDK if you’ve ever seen the American Masters about her – but it’s definitely worth watching. She was such a force. So intelligent and so gifted…it was a great and comprehensive tribute to her genius.
I’m just theorizing here. I have had depression in the past and have a disorganized attachment style (both anxious and avoidant on a pendulum).
I was not depressed during my limerence episode.
I was being both anxious and avoidant in my primary relationship with my SO. When SO withdrew was when I developed limerence for LO. It was that clear: 3 months after I thought SO was no longer interested, BAM, I fell for LO. I now think it was like when I felt the pair bond had ended, I needed to pair bond immediately with someone new. Enter glimmery LO.
With LO, I was definitely almost purely anxious (this is interesting) … it never got to the point where I was triggered by perceived excessive closeness to start pushing away in the avoidant stage of my attachment cycle. It would have been interesting to know if I would have if a relationship with LO had developed in a normal way. My bets are on that I would have: it did with a previous LO that I started dating, so I don’t see why this would have been different.
I never did a pure NC, but did a controlled LC. I did finally get over the limerence – by getting into a slightly emotional space with someone else. This did not become limerence (thank goodness) and it was over very quickly, but it “did the job” to get me out of limerence once and for all. This only took all of two years from start to end of the limerence episode.
Hi All. Many thanks for all the brilliant contributions so far. Really interesting stuff.
I think this is going to be a topic that runs and runs, and hopefully gives us a lot of insight into how individual the limerent experience can be…
Hi LaR,
I think the other coffeehouse is closed,
but I’m curious- why is it fragrant on Primrose Hill? Didn’t notice anything 25 years ago🙈
I also liked Greenwich Park, by the way, but Trifles might not have enough time to go there.
Could it be the zoo?
Thanks for the tips LaR and Mila!
I will visit one of the parks no matter the weather.
Mila, Trifles
Once or twice I’ve found it can get quite ‘Green’ up Primrose Hill …
A-ha, I was expecting worse! 😂
Mila is on-point with her Greenwich recommendation btw. You can have a mean time there 🙉
Huh? Still don’t get it. Must be the severe cold that I suddenly got (and that will be the reason I’ll cancel dinner for XLO and family..)
Sorry Mila for my cryptic-ness. People have been known to sometimes smoke a few more ‘exotic’ things up there and cause the air to become green and fragrant.
Personally I think Trifles’ idea of the stench from the zoo animals was funnier!
Hope you feel better soon. Is avoidance of the family meal with LO a net positive?
LaR,
Ah sorry, now I understand! Well, who knows what Trifles‘picnic might consist of;)
It’s not really avoidance, I’m really too sick for guests, wouldn’t get through an evening like that. (and infect everyone on top).
But I can’t say that I’m very sad about it. I think I‘m still in a phase where I haven’t fully accepted that he simply isn’t the person I thought he is, that he cares very much about me but cannot show it in ways that would be helpful for me. I get these resentful reactions and maybe it’s good to let more time pass.
It would anyway be an evening full of small talk and work for my SO (he‘s the one who cooks at these occasions because he‘s very good at it), no real connection, only creating a nice atmosphere for him and his SO, and maybe it would just fuel this resentment I want to get rid of.
Mila,
Sorry to hear you’re feeling sick again; please don’t stress yourself with any social “obligations” even with xLO! Taking care of ourself physically, emotionally and mentally is everyone’s top priority; otherwise, we can’t be in a top hat to beneficially interact with others.
Ah, that unacceptance and resentment of xLO….sorry to nag again: each of us MUST somehow accept who our LO was/is, and what LE was/is; ABSOLUTELY nothing we could mentally or realistically do about it.
I still catch myself occasionally slipping into bits of regrets and resentments in my xLE, but merely acknowledging and observing them, so they would all dissipate quickly. Stoic mentality, creativity, or just Netflix really helped… the Past is in the Past…
Feel better soon! 🫂
Have to edit what I just said previously —
One can do something about one’s LE: change/correct old perspectives of it — accept that a lot of or some of our thoughts about ourselves and LO were/are illusions during or even after LE, out of our altered state of mind.
About LO or anyone else, only they can change themselves when they determine to and and actually do it.
Hi Snow,
that’s what I‘m trying to do, but I think (pardon me) it’s a much easier job when there is no frequent contact with XLO like in your case, there’s no friendship at stake and one has space to develop this mentality. That’s why I try to have less contact but that in itself proves difficult .
I know you think I should get over myself, but I’ve come so far with time and going over the same stuff again and again, the strategy seems to work, so I allow myself to ignore your impatience and take my time to go on and on;)
Thank you for your wishes! Just slept a few hours but not feeling better somehow- patience here also required 🙄
Mila,
“I know you think I should get over myself,”
Umm…that’s not what I was thinking. I just disliked to see you in “irritating pain” and wish(ed) that you were irked much less by your ‘non-fully acceptance’, is it on an intellectual or emotional level?
I ask because in my case, even when I has intellectually fully accept that xLO’s personality and behaviors were/are beyond my control, emotionally, those bit of old resentment and regret (after years) still occasionally resurfaced to annoy me, particularly when I physically felt/feel down (like now still bothered by the sore nerve while sitting long and needing constant stretches).
“but I’ve come so far with time and going over the same stuff again and again, the strategy seems to work, so I allow myself to ignore your impatience and take my time to go on and on;)”
It’s not a matter of “impatience” (should I feel it?), but I forgot that your coping strategy — voice out your thoughts and emotions in writing, while I mostly held within — treating it as a private matter, like taking a mental shower or bath… — a habit trained by COO (psychologically very unhealthy — building a volcano within, which would explode sooner or later)
Just watched DrL’s video of today and could not help think how the Friend-Ship of yours and LaR’s (with your respective xLO/MFF could stand up against the LE’s residual/persistent waves….
I totally agree with you that less contact with/“avoidance” of xLO would definitely help rewire our LE infected/affected brain, in accordance with Dr L’s video.
Keep feeling better.
Hi Snow,
Thanks for your input!
yes, I seem to need to go through stuff again and again on my way forward. I think it’s a matter, as you say, of brain having recognized the truth but emotions are behind.
Maybe it’s also still a kind of grief that this person I thought he were doesn’t exist.
I think I just need more space and time with this.
Actually, circumstances are in my favor anyway, time and distance will do their thing for sure. So maybe I’m the one being impatient that I‘m not already at peace of mind🙈
I hope your back is getting better steadily! I should do some stretches myself but feel too sick, but I know I will pay for it. Lying in bed for a long time doesn’t do the back any good..
I feel like you’re both right: Snow about where we need to come to with acceptance and ‘correcting’ our brain’s distortions in the end; Mila with the fact that this only ever happens at its own pace (we can’t force it), and that it is much complicated by LO’s presence, contact and the wish for friendship.
I’m much earlier in this journey than Mila. My feelings for LO/MFF have become much more neutral now. She has definitely stopped ‘encouraging’ my limerence (starved hope, if you like) since our frank discussion about ‘parameters for the friendship’ etc a few weeks ago. For now, I can mostly accept that and see it as a net positive. My limerence has – truthfully – ramped down an awful lot since, things with my SO are much better, and I have a more holistic view of LO, seeing both good and bad sides. The sometimes-negative feelings towards LO (I paraphrase) that Mila has reported feeling do also jar away at me in the background, but haven’t become too strong as yet. I think it takes time, Mila, and this uncertain part might be a stage we just need to work through (perhaps you more than me, because of your xLO’s unusual communication style) if we want to have a friendship with xLO on the other side.
Or maybe that wish is indeed futile – we shall see in both cases, but neither of us have given up yet. I’ll have to watch DrL’s latest video to key into your point about that, Snow.
As I’ve said before, there aren’t many on LwL who are successfully holding down friendships with their xLOs (I acknowledge Lovisa as a notable exception – one or two departed posters also managed it). I have never thought it would be an easy place to get to, and still don’t. Without disclosure, there’s quite a lot of tacit re-negotiation involved.
I think I was right – and it was the skunk 😂
Boom!!!
Damn those stinky skunks.
On the subject of skunks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hszg0n3tNcE#ddg-play – “Pepe Le Pew – I’m Pepe, your lover!”
For those of you unfamiliar with Pepe, Pepe was a character in the Warner Bros franchise. Pepe is a skunk, Penelope is a Tux cat that gets a white strip painted down her back.
Pepe was one of my favorite WB toons.
Pepe LaPew …. wow I was learning about limerence as kid and I didn’t even know it.
Or consent.
I guess it depends on your perspective.
Adam,
Did you ever watch Rocky & Bullwinkle? That show was rife with adult undercurrents, especially Cold War humor.
I remember that one time my parents left me with a family friend for the evening. They didn’t have kids. I liked them because they had the only color TV in the neighborhood.
The husband asked what I normally did in the evening. I told him that I watched cartoons. He said we’d watch cartoons. As he watched it, he said, “This show is not for children.” I told him that it was.
He replied, “No, it’s not.”
I remember Pepe le Peu but not Rocky & Bullwinkle. I loved Pepe but I did feel very sorry for that female cat, sheesh he was persistent ….
Your neighbour was obviously a funny guy, LE, not to mention a good ‘un – letting the kid decide what to watch. That never happened with the adults in my life 🙂
L.E.
Yeah I watched it some during the 80’s because my grandmother had cable back then. I probably didn’t “get” things that I wasn’t suppose to get. It was just a talking squirrel and moose to mr. But I actually remember the Mr Peabody section of the show more than Rocky & Bullwinkle. “Quiet you!”
I didn’t grow up with a TV at all until I was a teenager so the only chance I got to watch TV was at grandmother’s house and I was always looking cartoons with all the channels that she had.
Sheesh, Adam! Your Jehovah’s Witness upbringing was far more strict than my Mormon upbringing.
Hi @L-A-R or LaR
Yes, the other coffeehouse is closed, as @Mila noted! So, I hope it’s ok if I can reply here to your reply re: Death of Hope — well, that topic sounds uplifting, huh? Thank you so much for sharing that resource with me. You nailed it. That is the point I am almost, almost at…so close…gotta crest Hopeless Hill!
I know you said I am possibly not quite ready to starve hope off…But I think I am getting to that point. It won’t be pretty, but after more than a week of not being in his physical presence, I feel slightly more steely toward the whole thing, and that is new. He also has not replied to my text, which speaks volumes about reality as opposed to the fantasy I’ve been latched onto. Let’s face it….
I am not a priority for him.
He is not going to start caring the way I’d like him to.
And I couldn’t make him care…even if I tried.
To know this feels bad. I await the relief of accepting it. Maybe that acceptance is the true Death of Hope. I think it might be. Maybe, acceptance is a nice way of putting it…I really like Death of Hope, though. Let’s not put lipstick on the pig. (Ok, or if we do, let’s get the pig their own lipstick, and not share our lipstick with them, for sanitary reasons.) haha
I feel sad, resentful, embarrassed, flawed, pathetic, rejected…my heart hurts. Nothing any other limerent hasn’t felt, I’m sure.
Last time I tried NC I will admit, it was to draw him in (it worked, til it didn’t.) This time…I feel different. Maybe that’s why they say it can take several relapses til true Hope-Death sets in. I am slow, but I’m learning…
I’ll step back, lick my wounds. I’ll do my yoga, meditate, take it easy on myself, and just…wait to feel more regulated again. I have nothing else to give him. I gave the best I had. It wasn’t enough. As a rule, I don’t give more once I know I gave the best I had. There is no point.
In the meantime, I’ve done my bookkeeping and managed a rather complicated yoga arm balance today. If nothing else is glimmering in my life, my yoga practice has been there for me. And that has been a comfort.
I hope you’re having a peaceful day, and an interesting one, LaR. Thank you for being there for me, and for your instinctive mention of the Death of Hope. I am hoping to attend the funeral soon.
With care, CSC
@MJ
I’m so glad you saw my message 🙂 thank you for replying and sharing more about what you’ve been through.
When you excerpted…
“We all, I think, try and do the best we can, to survive. Few of us are outright manipulators. Most, of not all, including the manipulators…are…dealing with things that happened to us.”
and said
“I think this is somewhat ballpark of the current place she’s in but I cannot confirm it.. I just try to be her friend for now and enjoy challenging myself not to take things too far or drive in limerent nature. Limerence isn’t just a crush, it’s soul crushing and it’s real and I never want another person to affect me in that way again.”
The funny thing is, I was talking about you, not LO. I was thinking how (seemingly?) hard you feel toward how you acted long ago…meaning that even if you behaved badly, your former self deserves compassion that only you can give. You are not a bad person, if you did some “bad” things. Easy to say, hard to feel…I’m sure you’d give me the same compassion…but ha, I would struggle to accept it within myself. So, I say this and I mean it, but, I know it isn’t something one just does, all of a sudden forgiving themselves. Would that it were that easy. We’d all live in a different world, I bet.
As for crying more for LO than you did for your Mom…Yeah. I will say I have thought the same in my own life, regarding LO and my Dad. My Dad died last summer and I will admit…there was a moment where I thought “Oh, I can post that my Dad died, and maybe LO will take the bait.” Yes, I will admit that. It is awful. But I feel that being truthful here is what will heal…me, and maybe anyone else who reads that.
Yeah, and LO did take the bait. And I got a heartfelt message from him. I was soaring. Even though five days before, I held my Dad’s hand as he left the world. I was so addicted to LO that I used my Dad’s one death – the one death he had…to literally emotionally bait a person who is a mere tangent to my life. That is the importance, the attraction, the desire, I had for LO (and would still have, if I was not in a very tenuous NC state right now….ugh….) Talk about guilt. Yeah. My God. How I have behaved…
As for your family, your in-laws, and feeling that you turned your back on your God…that is a hard thing to feel. On top of all the rest. I once heard someone say that God is an acronym for “good orderly direction” and I thought that was interesting. Maybe, without knowing it, that direction is much larger than what happens in one single season, a few years, or part of one’s life. The larger question is, on balance, are you going in the direction, or not. To me, it seems you very much are.
Well, I’m about to start my day – I have to send my accountant all my tax stuff…haha. I’d almost rather be going through my limerent fire here. But, honestly, taxes are more fun than limerence. 🙂
Be well, friend! Enjoy your coffee wherever you are!
I often wonder if God didn’t send me LO. The amount of circumstances that had to come together for me to have met and worked with her were so many and so out of my hands, that there is no way it was all coincidences.
I haven’t told the pastor or any of the other brothers or sisters the specifics. But have commented on the things, out of my control, that happened to me for me to find the church. One sister told me there was no way I found their little church tucked away out in the country by accident. She said that God was guiding me to his light because he has a purpose for me and what happens in my life.
I remember telling a brother (with the vague explanation of “the other woman”) that I didn’t deserve God’s grace or forgiveness. And he said “no one does that’s why Jesus died for us.” “That’s why God gives us the Holy Spirit to reside in us. It was Jesus’ sacrifice that made it possible.”
MJ my brother I know all too well about past sins and guilt. I have estranged my birth family and now have hurt my own family. And possibly caused LO distress. All for sins of the flesh. Mine were just different than yours. I know how wallowing guilt is so much easier than trying to forgive yourself, much less believe that other people caught in the wake of our sins can.
I think God has a lesson to teach me. And if he did it seems harsh and unnecessary. But that’s maybe because I HAVEN’T learned the lesson yet. LO and her daughter will always reside in my heart. And I don’t think that is contrary to the direction God is trying to guide me to. LO was just the instrument he used. Perhaps I was arrogant that Satan could not tempt me in my marriage. And God needed to humble me to the point that I would forever be on the look out from being tempted by Satan. I still haven’t figured it out yet. But I will keep on reaching out to God to help me in my life. I pray for LO and her daughter in same prayer I do for Momma and our sons. I pray for forgiveness for what I have done to all involved and for God to watch over them and keep them safe.
I totally get it. I was the one to go NC with a previous LO who turned out to be narcissistic, but I knew he was watching my posts online. Years ago, I posted about things in my life wondering if he’d take the “bait,” including the death of a parent. Heck, he still watches, so I still do this.
CSC,
Thanks for the reply. I am glad you had a better day (all is relative), got the yoga and bookkeeping in, and feel more steely now. I said you’d know your own feelings way better than we would here and I will be pleased to be wrong about what I said. Don’t beat yourself up if you relapse – just reset.
I’m trying to starve hope while LO is still in my presence often and do think I’m getting there now. But it has never been smooth and linear. And it’s tiring. Go easy on yourself.
LaR is how a majority go with my hastily chosen LwL handle, but it varies – I have answered to worse in my time 😀
@LaR
🙂 Yes, slightly more steely. But definitely more wobbly in that then I’d like to be.
I watched an Alan Robarge (sp?) thing about “Conscious Contact” if you can’t go “No Contact” and I enjoyed considering the differences between those options.
It sounds like, for you, Conscious Contact is happening. I can only imagine how hard it is. Probably just as hard as NC…but requiring more endurance. I am sure it’s exhausting, and I hope you too will be easy with yourself.
The thing is, with me, I can’t relapse unless he reaches out. And I’m certainly not going to trot off to where he physically is, so I can feel extra worthless. So, I’m more like NC by default.
haha – So my efforts are not a true act of stamina, because I have no choice (and am bolstered by my utterly insufferable, practically Napoleonic level of pride.) You, on the other hand…are coping ongoing with your LE at an advanced level, surgically, patiently, painstakingly. 🙂
CSC,
You are really amusing – “I have no choice (and am bolstered by my utterly insufferable, practically Napoleonic level of pride.)”
I just wanted to say that my pride has saved me more than once. I just have to consider my own dignity when it comes to LO and I go right off contacting him. If it works, it works. In NC phase, its just about the most useful character trait to have. I know that pride also comes before a fall, etc etc, and that Jane Austen’s Mr Darcy was a terrible boor with his pride, at times, but I really do believe that it has benefits 🙂
On a more serious note, some of your comments last week had me aching for you – the way you beat yourself up about SO’s ‘browbeating’ comment. Thank goodness you do have some pride, that’s a corrective we sometimes need against unreasonable behaviour. I mean – that sounded as though you were being berated for being too ….. nice and encouraging? Sorry, I don’t buy it. That exchange sounded as though it was squarely on SO and that his reaction was overly defensive. When people are in a bad place they sometimes find positivity hard to stomach – but it doesn’t mean the person being positive is wrong.
Maybe you should embrace your pride a little? It does indicate a healthy sense of self, to some degree, right?
P.S.
CSC – In case you haven’t seen this blog already. I think Dr L is really smokin’ in this one 🙂
https://livingwithlimerence.com/the-stories-we-tell-ourselves/
Hi Bewitched!
I have been meaning to reply for a while, I’m very late 🙂
I totally agree with you on pride. While I try not to be in anyone’s face about it, I do see my pride as an asset – it protects me when everything else fails…and it often helps hold me back from…deleterious actions. I feel people often mistake pride for selfishness, and they are quite different to me – are they to you?
Also, thank you for your sympathy regarding my toxic positivity, I am still smarting from that incident. As I always do, I am trying to take his feeling, to view it from lots of angles, to be aware of it, to understand, all statements have some truth…to really look at it and see, am I guilty of this?? I have looked at it for a couple of weeks….and honestly do not believe I am.
My SO is good at standing by me during tough times. He has seen me through a couple of very hard things in the past couple of years. (Cancer, the ensuing treatment, my Dad’s death) But I am coming to understand, when I am doing better, much later, when I can’t change my behavior, and when I am not expecting it– He unloads all this stuff on me….ways I hurt him during those tough times. Telling me I turned away, telling me I hurt him. It’s very difficult. I don’t know if it’s fair. Then again, life isn’t fair.
I’m not the victim – I have stayed in the relationship. But, I am feeling like it’s warping my sense of myself to hear his point of view, especially now, since many of the things he’s bringing up are at least several months back, some even years back.
He has a right to share his point of view. But, I feel he is being….excessively accusatory, and to be honest, pretty selfish.
…this is all very hard. But, I am also feeling a weird relief that I’m not crazy and I’m not necessarily “the bad one” in my relationship. I am not the good one, that’s for sure. But, I am seeing that I am probably not evil, and have the right to make my own choices…it’s a process.
I hope wherever you are, Bewitched, you are having a magical, witchy day in the best way. May you be surrounded by high-quality broomsticks, wands, pointy toed shoes…or whatever your witchery prefers.
with care, csc
I am taking Adderall for ADHD, and it is almost universally agreed upon by everyone I know that I am almost certainly on the autism spectrum as well, which makes me an “AuDHDer”.
The last time I posted on this blog, I mentioned my current LO, and how I am somehow managing to see her every day, and there is still not a sole at work that is aware that I have this obsession with her. I have also mentioned that I have a coworker who is a close friend at work, who is a very socially competent transgender woman (I first knew her 5 years ago when she was still a male, and she is also incidentally diagnosed with ADHD) who does not look or sound or act like a female. Me and my coworker have very good conversations about philosophy, current events, and the confounding effects of having an ailment like ADHD – and all of the times she has lost her temper with me because I totally misinterpret things, because my autism causes my brain to work very differently from everyone else’s. She loves to troll the hell out of me and watch me lose my mind when she only communicates with gestures and expressions that she knows I have great difficulty deciphering. I will say “Would you please answer my goddamn question?!” She will say “I just did.” Augh, how infuriating!
Recently, my coworker has been telling me to interact more with LO (my coworker does not know LO is my LO), to get her opinion on how we should organize the work in the department before she arrives for her shift, so she doesn’t end up having to clean up after us. I will then make excuses that I think LO has been irritated with me before, because she has been unable to begin running, because I will still be scrambling to get our cleanup done half an hour into her shift. (Actually, even our own Lead has told us we have to be out of the way and ready to give a situational report when the incoming shift arrives.)
My coworker made an interesting comment this morning before we left, that LO only actually gets irritated with me when I leave early without talking to her. So, I ask in amazement “She gets pissed off when I leave?” My coworker’s cryptic reply was “You miss a lot of social cues.” I didn’t ask for details, because I knew my coworker would not give me a straight answer. On the way out of the building, I passed LO in the hall and she looked like she had been crying, and she did not make eye contact like she usually does. I don’t know what to make of this or if it means anything.
Hi James,
When it comes to LO, I always assume it means nothing. This is a corrective I use to avoid over-interpreting LO. It has served me well and if you have AuDHD, it might also serve you as a rule-of-thumb?
That said, if LO (or anyone) had shown signs of having been crying, I would probably try to be extra kind and, just generally, nice. It doesn’t even need to be too overt – the smallest smile / wink / nod of the head can be sympathetic without over-committing or over-stepping a boundary, such as previous pattern of interaction. Many of us over-do it with LOs and can be too careful not to get warm with them because we don’t want it to be misconstrued, or worse, correctly construed and in so doing giving the game away. But people have bad days in the workplace and if we spend decades in the same workplace we do end up seeing colleagues in distress at some point, which requires sensitivity. I should say that I am sure you are always very nice!
My default is:
“Don’t over-think the meaning of LOs actions or things other people remark about LOs”.
I wonder if your friend and co-worker has sensed something about your interest in LO? If so, she might be testing the water?
“When it comes to LO, I always assume it means nothing.”
Yup, even basic common-sense advice like this needs to be heard again, and again, and again by us limerents, so we are just a little bit less likely to say or do something stupid. It’s like telling someone “Never point a gun in the direction of another person, even if you are CERTAIN that it is empty”, and we still have accidental shootings, but it still needs to be repeated.
And LO “called in” today, something she very rarely ever does. So, here is another random detail that could mean anything.
Hi Everyone,
Since this is the coffeehouse, I am going to ask for help today. I hope it’s ok to use the coffeehouse for this purpose.
I am doing ok in my NC. I’m on balance, glad I’m doing this, and know it will work (eventually. I had a little slip-up earlier in the week. LO sent a text (not words, just images of two paintings he’s working on). I replied with a very short “beautiful!” and two images of my own: Since we had discussed designs involving his paintings I took 5 minutes to use the images he had sent to create an example of what I had been trying to show him he might be able to do with his art.
This was several days ago, and no reply. I wouldn’t have taken someone else’s art into my own hands normally, but I felt is was ok in this instance, since it was something we had discussed (at coffee) and he had actually asked me for information on how to bring his art further, into other applications. (Also, it allowed me to communicate in a positive way, without sending an overly wordy text, something I try to avoid. haha- even though I know I’m quite the typer on here!)
Meanwhile…My SO, earlier in the week, came down on me for “browbeating”him. Essentially, he had written an article he was proud of, and expressed that “in another world” he would love to see it taken further, becoming a documentary film. My SO is not a go-getter, but I was surprised to hear he would want to take this piece further. I attempted to be encouraging (this is what I would do with anyone I am close to). I gently said, “Well, I thought the piece was really interesting! There’s a lot of depth in it. I don’t see why you couldn’t bring it further if you wanted to! I can see NPR or even NYT being interested in this story, just to name a few…”
SO rolled his eyes and gave me a look like I was breaching a major boundary for him. He was gnashing his teeth, with anger. Lunch ended in him telling me I was aggressively positive, and aggressive about encouraging others…that my positivity seems like an attack.
Hearing this makes me so confused. I am an enthusiastic, caring person. I have been creative for a long time. My livleyhood is my creativity. I am always happy to cheer on, or even to lend support, to other creative people, with whatever tools I have, or have learned about.
Soooo now, it seems that BOTH SO and LO are feeling the same thing…my support is worthless to them, or even…I don’t know…unwarranted? Toxic? I don’t know.
I thought LO would at least reply to my reaction to his art with a smiley face or a thx! or something. To hear nothing…I feel, again, like I was toxically positive.
I faced this attitude again, with SO today. It’s his birthday and he said he was depressed. I tried to sit and listen, and to offer some suggestions about how he could work on some artwork he had going, maybe, today. And then, we could have dinner later.
I was told, again, that I was browbeating him.
I don’t think what I have done with either SO or LO is overly aggressive. I am sensitive myself — and I try to be very mindful when helping or interacting with others around their creativity. It can be such a fragile thing. I would be grateful for any support or words of wisdom on how to care for myself right now. Maybe just keep my mouth shut…I don’t know.
TLDR; Could it be that there is nothing really *that* wrong with me, I am a decent, loving person doing her best, but I have surrounded myself with unconfident, insecure men, and when I try to be my best, loving, self towards them, they can’t handle being cared about? Sigh.
Whatever. Whatever the reason, I think this is all very, very bad for my mental health. I hope I can make some changes, and be patient with myself in changing.
Thank you. CSC
CSC,
Trust that you know yourself and your intentions best. You know what you meant by those comments/actions towards LO and SO, and nothing either of them can say can invalidate that. Your truth is the truth here.
I don’t get why LO didn’t reply to the comment about his art, but I feel it is nothing you did wrong. You don’t need his validation for what you did. I feel he has been quite unkind, or at best remiss.
There’s nothing obviously passive aggressive in what you said to SO, if your reporting of it here is accurate. I don’t get why he reacted like he did.
However, let me test something out, as I sense/intuit that you are someone who doesn’t mind frank discussions (on here, at least). So – here goes. I know I haven’t really treated my SO right, all through my LE. I’ve tried, and my intentions and morals have been honourable enough. But there is no denying that despite that, what SO has experienced from me is not the same thing that she would have experienced had my LE/LO not been there (you and I have sort of chatted about this before – about not being fully ‘present’). SO knows me pretty well – between 8 and 9 years together now. She has never confronted me about LO. But she knows well enough that there has been something going on inside my head to ‘take me away from her’. Whether she knows the what, who, where, when etc I am not sure, but I think it is likely that she suspects a fair amount of it. Often when SO has got wound up with me during this time, whatever issue has seemed to trigger it has seemed to me to be minor / ‘not the real issue’. ‘Mysteriously’ in the last month as my LE has eased off, that has hardly happened. I just wonder if your SO is getting triggered by some deeper sense he has about something being ‘up’, moreso than the thing that makes it comes out on the surface.
I could be miles off here, CSC. But you told me once to line up a couple of ‘cover stories’ (white lies, not real lies – just other things in life that could feasibly be bothering us instead of LO) to tell SO – and I thought that was good advice at the time.
Hang in there and keep talking to us.
CSC
I remember to one new hire in the company I work for, that I would be working with, my supervisor described me to her as an “overly polite gentleman”. I take that as a compliment but my supervisor said that, with women, I am polite to a fault. I have also been called “overbearing” due to my manners.
You CSC seem to be in the same case. I think some people will never “fit in” within the majority of people in society. And I say that not really knowing your LO or SO. But neither instance you posted do I understand their reactions. Or lack of reaction. I can’t even imagine how your SO calls that “browbeating” when you complimented his work.
It sounds unfair and annoying, but I think we empathetic, for the lack of a better term, people have to try and pull back so as not come off abrasive to others. The woman I currently work with I have found it’s all business, no chit chat. I get a very distinct vibe she either just doesn’t want to give me a chance, or in her eyes I have done something wrong, with how passive aggressive she is with me. But I suck it up and say “oh well”. However a co-worker is much different than a SO and LO.
It sucks to say, “oh I have to change myself for the majority?” And yeah that does suck. But curbing tendencies can save you more mental stress. I know it is very hard for me in my female interactions, as I don’t want to come off overbearing but helpful. But that’s not how society sees things. Personally I see your actions with both your SO and LO well within acceptable parameters. And I don’t get their reactions. As I personally find our interactions here on LwL very pleasant and enjoyable.
@Adam
Your take on this is fascinating. And, as a fellow considerate sort…very recognizable.
It is hard to know when to curb my kind / empathetic tendencies to protect myself, and when to use them. I often err on the side of just using them, because I feel I am strong enough to handle the haters, or people who can’t handle it if someone is considerate to them. (Being a kind person is not my problem. It’s their issue.) But, I will admit, these duelling SO/LO factors have my me starting to doubt myself in ways I normally would not.
My goodness, I am so sorry that is happening with your coworker. To be met with passive aggression when you are just being yourself is awful. I would say to you, it is not you. It is her. If you being polite, and considerate (or even a bit over-considerate sometimes) is making her aggressive? Not a psychologist here, but I’ll guess it’s her issue.
I’ve known women like your co-worker. Passive aggression is awful. It’s so depleting to be around someone like that. I would imagine, Adam, that it’s not just you. If she acts that way to one, she probably acts that way to all. It’s just that nobody has compared notes. She’ll likely do herself in, people like that usually do, one way or another. And, she is only making herself look bad. Passive aggressive people think they’re hiding their aggression. But, honestly, it’s not that mysterious. Everyone can see it clear as day. And it’s a bad look.
Thank you for giving me a bit of comfort in that I wasn’t out of line in my own interactions. Similarly, I would say the same to you. You have struck me as a very considerate, emotionally sophisticated, and thoughtful person. To me, those are real attributes! If others see them as objectionable, I find it baffling.
🙂
@LaR
Once again, thank you for helping me. I hope that when I am through this, I can be a support for someone, as you have been for me. Inside, I do know I have done my best to be a caring girlfriend/friend and artist. Thank you for helping me feel seen, that way. I am not the victim here, this LE is my doing. But, I am just…not trusting my mind at all, at this point. Very confusing.
Once again, your instincts know exactly what is really going on, LaR. Yes, I believe my entangled ways have caused SO much stress. He’s looking around his own life for the reason why…but he has no idea it’s an LE in my world. I’ve been trying to protect SO, but I am sure I seem “forced” in ways I didn’t before. My Dad died this summer, I believe SO thinks much of my mental state stems from that. Would that it did.
ps. I am glad my ‘white lies’ thing made sense in context of what you were struggling with. I know dishonesty is not a great habit — but I had just wanted you to have a little space to breathe and collect your thoughts, at that difficult time. Thank you for understanding what I meant. 🙂 I am very glad to hear your LE is lessening in intensity, and that things with SO seem more stable, as that has happened! I am sure that is just a huge relief, in terms of the pressure you have gone through.
Hi CSC,
maybe, just maybe, you are just too awesome in your mind and creativity that its a bit much for your LO or SO to handle and they feel inferior to you?
I maybe way off, but it’s just a thought.
You said :
“I took 5 minutes to use the images he had sent to create an example of what I had been trying to show him he might be able to do with his art”
Could it be that what you created( in a few minutes) was amazing and LO felt intimidated by your skill versus his creation? Similarly with SO, that your creative skills makes him feel you are superior somehow when he was sharing.
Obviously I know nothing it’s just a theory I’m throwing in of the whys.
I enjoy your free flowing writing btw and maybe you should do more of this ( fiction stories ?)
No need to answer. Just a few random thoughts .
@Imho
I just want you to know I saw this…I thank you. Most of all, I thank you for complimenting my (copious, hyperbolic) writing here. I have never tried fiction, but you have planted a seed, @imho!
…I am still in NC and hope to remain that way tho will admit it’s getting difficult. there is a very real feeling (it is now week 2) that I am literally saying goodbye to this. My LO did text me on Sunday night (a kind of weak, breadcrumby text saying what i sent him was cool.) I have not replied. While I wish I could, the reality that to do so would set me back is strong. I’d lose ground, and I don’t think I’m strong enough to do that right now.
I feel my access to “fun” which is what LO is to me, is gone. I’m definitely entering the high plains of NC right now. The lonely plateau, the slog towards clearing this. No fun at all!!! But, at least I don’t want to jump off a bridge. 🙂
(At least, not a very tall one. A small bridge, like you’d see in a decorative garden or something, might be fun and a nice, dramatic indulgence. May consider.)
Hello CSC,
I like our delayed messages to each other- its like the old days of posting letters !
( I have been away and under a lot of work pressure so not been on lwl so much. I did a quick search on my pseudonym, and saw your reply to my message which warmed my heart – thank you )
Your NC approach is actually inspiring me to do the same. When I met my long distant LO in person relatively recently I realise it set me back quite a lot.
I think it’s a thrill for him and then he moves on with his life, but for me, I linger with limerence, false hope, whatever !
You are right about cutting the source and access to fun, and let’s be honest, thoughts of desire!
It’s tough, it’s dull but it’s about being an adult doing the right thing.
In the past, I would send messages/photos to my LO of the amazing places I’ve travelled to in the last week or so, but I resisted.
I love your description of jumping off from a mini-bridge, which I visualised as a garden Japanese bridge across a shallow pond, which you got immersed in water just above the knees when you jumped over the threshold !
The goldfish were not very happy, but everyone survived and was a bit comical.
You should definitely consider writing stories, you are a gifted writer!
Imho 💃🏻,
“I did a quick search on my pseudonym, and saw your reply to my message“
How do you actually do such a pseudonym search? I never managed it. ☹️
Thanks.
Hi ❄️
on my android device, on the three dots (top right), I simply click on “Find in page” with it’s search function.
💃🏻
Hiya 💃,
I use Apple system: iphone, ipad and laptop, and cannot find what you describe on your Android system; NO three dots anywhere, top or bottom.
On the page, I only see “Search this Website”. But when I tired my pseudonym in all its variations, the only says no “pseudonym is found.
What do you ACTUALLY type in “find in page”? “@imho”? Or something else?
Thanks, ❄️
❄️,
I’m not really an expert, I can only suggest to use Google Chrome and the three dots should appear in top right on the very top bar, click this and scroll to ‘find in page’
Or control+F, then type.
I would type ‘Imho’ or key word I’m seeking or other community members name if I’m looking to check-up on their comments in any blog post.
I hope this helps!
💃🏻
💃,
Got it! (I normally used “safari”). It only works with letters, but not imojis…
🙏
❄️
❄️🐦🔥, 💃
You two are very much amusing me with your creative uses of the ‘Name’ box 😁
What a shame that function doesn’t work for emojis.
🚜 🚨 🌱 🌽 🎩 :
💡 up some somber spirit…
🌹 🌱 🍅
I am probably the useless IT support person who only advises ‘have you tried turning it off and on again?’
💃🏻
💃,
💃’s help this time is tremendous, because in a “gigantic” room, 🔍 could spot a member and lead one to read all their posts — ❄️ 🐦🔥’s LwL journey is especially “interesting” — a helpless 🙄 narcissist 😎 here!
Hope you’re feeling better in your gradual LC/NC… We’re indeed INFP 👯♀️ here…
And yet, so often a problem is solved by finding a plug that came loose, lol
SL 📕,
Precisely!
I wish there is a loose/weak plug somewhere for LE, which we could just unplug by chance or intentionally, then our LE ⛓️💥💥 and 🌬️ Gone with 💨 !
Ooooh I want to go jump dramatically from a mini bridge so much now!
To your problem w/ so and lo reaction, consider wether you may be counselling too much.
My so made a similar reproach but was able to explain that sometimes he say something and just want a “oh so sorry for you” and a pat on the back, or a ” good job very cool!”
Sometimes, although counsel are good and can help, people aren’t ready to hear it yet and want time to live the emotions they are talking about with you.
It’s frustrating when you think you have the solution, I know that very well.
But maybe next time try something along the line of ” oh cool, who would you see play in the documentary?” Then a few days later come back with a counsel if he want to do something with it.
Don’t send anything to lo, or just ask if he wants your take on it.
Same thing with the depressed state. Try a oh sorry pat on the back
Although, in an ideal world, they would be able to listen to your good counsel and it seem like a less than optimal situation for everyone, sometimes people are just sharing but not ready for counsel….
But it’s just my take on it.
Also I realized I just annoyingly counselled you. Sorry sorry *pat on the back*
Hi CSC
Had to look up browbeating..
I think I wouldn’t connect the two events too much. LO might have completely different reasons for not answering than SO has for being grumpy.
I‘m also tempted to say they are both men so maybe they don’t like it if you show more creativity and energy than them, but that might be unfair.
It’s always worth to take a minute and think if there really could be something that went down the wrong way with them. Maybe your LO just wanted to show you his art and was a bit flummoxed that you immediately „did“ something with it? Maybe he misunderstood it as that you immediately pushed your own work on it instead of just appreciating what he did? (I‘m the blunt here, sorry😎)
And maybe your SO didn’t react on what you said but how you said it- maybe he sensed a „don’t be that way, just get yourself together, I don’t like you that way“?
Having taken that minute, I think that there might be basic insecurity issues behind both.
Another interpretation:SO feels low and takes it out on you, LO maybe just wanted to brag and ignores your input because he doesn’t care?
Many interpretations, but they main thing is, don’t let them derail you! You are not dependent on their behavior.
You meant well in both cases and if it came over the wrong way they could explain it to you, instead they choose to bite back or ignore- not very mature.
Hi CSC,
“ Could it be that there is nothing really *that* wrong with me, I am a decent, loving person doing her best, but I have surrounded myself with unconfident, insecure men, and when I try to be my best, loving, self towards them, they can’t handle being cared about? Sigh”
Probably not. I think you should read Alison Armstrong’s book, “Making Sense of Men.” It’s short, interesting and very helpful! Also, in her YouTube videos Alison talks about “frog farmers.” I don’t think you are a frog farmer, but you might have some symptoms of it.
Best of luck!
Hi Everyone,
I am here to post an update, and to ask for HALP. I’m piggybacking on my own post.
So, I’ve made it through 3 weeks (I think I’m actually slightly over 3 weeks!) NC (I sent one very dry text reply to an existing message of his, not a slip-up, really more to make sure I didn’t seem like a jerk.) After that, a sense of relief at the idea of actually closing this door began to creep in…oh my gosh, I don’t have to think about him anymore. I can stop guessing what he’s doing, because he is No Longer An Option.
My brain has started coming back. I can see the damage this LE has caused, I can see, actually, that it’s not the LE, but the fact I am not in integrity, that is the worst part of it all. I can see how much of a waste this past year has been…and how much work I need to do around my primary relationship (possibly needs to end), my grief over my life (unfulfilled desires and dreams), and my grief over my Dad’s death (hi Dad).
My physical symptoms have pretty much abated. I haven’t wanted to cry much, anymore. Like L-a-R, I was physically exhausted for a while. My heartbeat was going a mile a minute…but it’s slower now. I do have a lingering, mind-blown feeling. Like I’ve just come up from being deep in the ocean, for a long time. I feel fragile, weird.
I am starting to have some goals again. The same goals I had before the LE. Some new. Art goals (woo!) Friend goals (seeing my friends feels amazing).
I have procured a therapist. I think she will be a great asset as I try to navigate in coming days….She knows I’ve had a major LE. And that it’s not the LE, but the *giant* mountain of grief and suppression (on top of which, LO sits like a shiny, golden nipple), that we are going to have to grapple with.
*cue dramatic music*
However, true to form, after my first meeting with my therapist, I saw I had a text. Yes, guess who? LO, back from the dead.
The text asked where I had been, wondering why he hadn’t seen me. Mentioned the art thing we had worked on together. Thanked me again for my time. The text also mentioned “I can’t wait to take you to —– (a place we had posited going together), I just have to find the time.”
Now, I had been doing SO well in NC. So much progress. Now, here I am again wasting time mulling over what to say back.
Over time I’ve come to see he probably sees me as someone he doesn’t want to lose touch with, for whatever reason. But, I’ve also seen that *I* am someone who will accept crumbs, and these…sorry…these are crumbs. When I want to do something, I FIND the time.
IDK what to do here. Next therapy session is Monday. She will kill me if I break NC hahah – ok she won’t, but, let’s face it, I know I should stay in NC.
But…I still…I still feel like I can’t cut the cord completely. Even though I know it’s good for me. Even though he may actually have *some* weird feeling for me.
Please encourage me to stay the path. Please tell me, this text from him means *nothing*. Or almost nothing. Tell me I don’t need to rush. I’ve been doing so well…but I can feel myself wanting to backslide. I need to calm down.
CSC
CSC 🤖,
📢 If you truly want your health and integrity, 🛑 🛑 🛑 🛑 🛑 🛑 texting anything! simply ✋⛔️ ⛔️ ⛔️ ⛔️✋!
🤐🤐🤐🤐🤐🤐
🔊 your LE 🧠 just can’t see that he’s an insecure 🐕 LO to tease and get ego gratification from you! He knows he can from your current mental state! 📣
His exercises and yours are ALL 💩💩! Sorry to be so direct❗️
😡 🦜 ❄️
TYPO: his “excuses”.
🏵️🌱🍅
Ugggh you are so right. I was doing so well. He has an uncanny ability to show up with his tiny, yet powerful thimblefull of uncertainty whenever I am feeling stronger.
Yeah, my prior text to him was, on purpose, VERY dry, just technical, really. It was probably pretty clear I was actively stepping back. Add more NC from me, to that, and of course, he’s probably just wondering where his little 🧠⬆ went.
I don’t feel anger at him. But it’s frustrating…more frustrated with myself for not being able to have more clarity after all these productive weeks!
🤖
📣🤐 is ⚡️🔋🪫,📢
just 🔐 your 👄
🍅 🤜 💩 LO! 🤛 ❗️❗️
🏵️🌱😡
👉❤️👈
🤖 🪫🐌
🙏🏽🔋❗️
💩🍞🤏
🤖🧘🏻♀️⚡️
⏳⏳⏳
⪽𝛓☾
⪽𝛓☾,
🙏🏿 👍 ✍️
😡 🍖 👺
🤲❤️❤️ 👈
🧘♀️ 🧘♀️🧘♀️
⏳⏳⏳
🔋🔌 🤖
CsC,
Read:
https://livingwithlimerence.com/dodgy-limerent-objects/
and all the links that piggy-back off it.
Recognise him in there anywhere?
I don’t go out of my way to villify other people’s LOs on here. But from bits you’ve said at different times (inconsistencies in his behaviours), I think he likes to orbit people and keep them dangling.
I know you will have the “it’s just an art project” narrative ticking away. But, ask yourself these questions:
– what would *really* make you feel best right now?
– what’s the anticipated good outcome from contact?
– resuming contact means starting NC from scratch and going through those 3 weeks ‘again’ – are you prepared to do that? Does the reward outweigh that risk?
I know my questions are ‘leading’!!
Hi CSC,
I saw your “help” post and I just wanted to quote you back to yourself. Two weeks ago you wrote:
“Last time I tried NC I will admit, it was to draw him in (it worked, til it didn’t”
He may think you’ve gone quiet again (fpr whatever reason), and that, if he dangles a shiny text your way, things will go back to how they were before – and he will get his nice attention back.
But this is in your control. If it does not make you feel good, you dont need to engage (or not engage fully, you could slow fade him if that makes it easier to go NC).
Here’s hoping you get clarity that works for you.
@LaR and @bewitched
Thank you, friends. Yes, I have to persevere, here. He is definitely an expert shiny-object dangler…Bewitched, you are right, thank you for reminding me of What Happened Last Time….the infamous Relapse! otherwise known as Rock Bottom Level 4 Sub-Basement (sigh).
I don’t want to make him sound like he’s pure evil. He’s a sweet person, and kind. Yes, he’s also immature and flaky, and unfortunately also very, very good at attracting me. The weird thing is, though, all that is true, yet in some ways, he’s been a better friend to me this past year than some other people I am quite close with. Limerence is soooo weird, and difficult. It’s like it has no end to why it’s so hard.
I wish there was a way to allow him into my life without so much damage. But right now, the damage is me. I am the one who is totally out of integrity, and has SO, and has let everything creep…even if I was able to meet up with LO, there would still be the fact…I am going home to an SO of 20 years who I am kind of lying to. I’m not lying outright, but I am majorly obscuring truth. To both LO and SO.
None of this is good and I have to get out of it. *enter Therapist*
Thank you, thank you.
csc
@mila @lovisa
Oh god, wow. Yeah, this is what I’ve been afraid of. I feel horrible thinking I may have been the exact opposite of supportive. Instead, making people feel torn down or sapped.
I think in the future, I may not say anything at all. I’ll just say “That’s great!’ Or something. Or “It’s amazing.” And that will have to do it. I think in the future, I will learn to keep my mouth closed. If I support anyone in their creative endeavors, I will support myself, and myself alone.
I did apologize to SO on the days he said he felt browbeaten. Right away. And, I should probably text LO to say I’m sorry, too. I don’t know. I didn’t feel sorry…but after reading that I might have really offended people, now I feel horrible. It’s all such a mess….I wish I could stop making such a mess of everything. Thanks so much for weighing in, and trying to be honest with me.
No, CSC,
I didn’t mean you were necessarily offending them. I just meant there is a possibility that they might have misunderstood or are oversensitive. But that’s only one of many possibilities.
I don’t think you should apologize to LO, no! We have nobody what‘s really going on, also, he doesn’t have to be that sensitive, puh-lease. It wouldn’t not such a big offense that there need to be apologies?
We cannot know or judge what happened, from a few words on the internet, please don’t take that as a truth- it was just a play of mind, trying to get every perspective on board.
*“we have no idea“
I completely second what Mila said, CSC. Don’t text an apology to LO! Zero need.
@mila @LaR
Thank you, friends…I just spoke with a bestie of mine (who, as luck would have it also a trauma therapist…ha— not a privilege I abuse!) i ran my awful panic by her. She feels I have done nothing wrong. SO was harsh (she knows SO) …and LO shared images, no text. How was I supposed to know what they meant? And no reply doesn’t mean anything. It means…nothing.
she also says if needed, i could send a neutral message like “I wanted to check in, design direction aside…artist to artist, it meant a lot that you shared your piece, and it is beautiful just as it is! I hope that came across. 🙂
And leave it at that. No apology, but possibly a clarification to help my own uncertainty stop gnawing at me. He probably won’t reply, or will cryptically reply. But at least I’ll know I’m not misperceived. IDK.
but seriously, this should be clear. I think I’m just overwrought. And he’s probably just forgotten or not cared enough to know a reply would be welcome. (?) I am going to let this rest 24 hrs. And revisit. My Goodness, I am determined to make this my last LE. I cannot take this stuff again!
With gratitude, CSC
Hi CSC,
very good draft of a text, I need a friend like that!
I would wait 24 h and maybe the need to text settles anyway, but I think you can safely send that text after that time if it sets your mind at peace. I understand that, I hate the feeling of being misunderstood and not setting it right.
But why do you think he wouldn’t reply or reply enigmatically? Is he always someone who‘s not straightforward? Just asking out of curiosity.
Hi @mila
Thank you for that endorsement. I am glad it didn’t read as unhinged. I sure feel unhinged. I will absolutely be waiting the 24 hours. As of now, I’m more considering not sending it, but we will see. The whole thing is so weird. Normally he at least politely acknowledges. That was more what I expected…
The reason I expect no reply or a cryptic one at best is because he hasn’t replied to the original one I sent, which really had nothing too wrong with it. Not even a little “reaction”. I am guessing that’s not because he’s in the hospital having an emergency appendectomy, but more because he’s occupied with someone or something else, or, just doesn’t *want* to. I can’t stand up against those forces.
But, I honestly don’t get it because he’s normally at least pretty polite…just generally so. He’s not really the kind of person who gets easily offended…It’s a mystery. It may remain so, no matter what I do!
I seriously cannot wait to feel better. I am so tired of this, it feels awful. I can’t wait until my mind makes some new connections and I am able to feel a bit more normal again. Limerence isn’t just something you logically think your way out of though…sigh. As we all know too well!
@mila oops but to be specific – he is a pretty lousy text-er. Just…doesn’t give it a lot of attention. Talking with him is a very different thing. He is not looking at his phone, always fully engaged. He’s a very, very poor text-er. But, again, polite enough, however, short and kind of cryptic.
Hi CSC,
Texting is the hell of limerence! I suffered many hours/days/months there, let me tell you….
I think there is a very harmless reason behind his silence- like you said, he‘s busy, he read it and didn’t have time to reply right away, and forgot afterwards, or whatever. It proves that he definitely isn’t in the same state of mind as you, that his mind isn’t half as much occupied with you as yours is with him.
But texting behavior is very different in people, as you said. My LO2 is very erratic. He just leaves texts unread for weeks. Then, if you get him at the right time, he will text for hours. I know him now and I know that he likes/loves me very much, and we have reached the same level of affection (a great one, but not occupying the mind, and not thinking of the other for weeks, but when we meet it’s always beautiful ), but his texting behavior used to almost kill me back when I was limerent.
The „good“ thing is that you seem really fed up with feeling so bad about it. At some point your mind will say „not any more“ and that’s the turning point , you will crawl out of this waiting hell! You deserve better than agonizing about a stupid text from a person who probably forgot to answer or is miffed because his ego was scratched for some silly reason!
CSC,
I can feel just how much you are overthinking this texting thing, and stuff about your LO in general. I say this from a place of understanding, not judgement – as I have been there so very often. It is horrible what the lim-brain does to us, but it is good to keep recognising that it is this altered state of mind talking. Good that you reached out to us instead of taking hasty action and texting him. There are few things more demeaning to me than sending an ‘are you Ok?’ text after getting no reply.
Exactly like you said about him, and like Mila described her LO2, some people are just unconventional texters / rubbish texters. My LO is the same – what I do or don’t get by text has no correlation to in person dynamics. It took me a really long time to work this out and get comfortable with it – there was always the ‘what have I done wrong?’ question nagging away at me. The answer was invariably – ‘nothing’.
Ask yourself whether and why you need to text him again at all. What’s the intended good outcome?
“Limerence isn’t just something you logically think your way out of though…sigh.”
You’re right, but I’d want to add a caveat. You can’t do it with logic alone, or make it happen faster than it wants to. But there has been (for me anyway) an element of “fake it till you make it”. That is – if I keep telling myself things with my logical brain, whilst acknowledging that my feeling brain feels different … then slowly the feeling brain can start to catch up and perhaps ‘hear’ what the logical brain is repeatedly saying. Like the one leading the way for the other. Some here will disagree with me on this point, but it’s had merit in my own case.
I typed a long reply to you yesterday on the ‘white lies’ point only for my phone to delete it before I hit send. I will get back to that when I can – but the TLDR is that I fully knew you weren’t trying before to encourage me to lie to SO. It actually helped me to be more truthful (will write more on it eventually)
I second LaR on „fake it til you make it“. It has benefits, one of them preserving dignity. I guess I‘m not very good at it, but it definitely helped me.
@mila @LaR
You both are helping me more than I can express. To know, as I wheel wildly in my emotions, that you care and understand, it’s part of being like this, and the process of untangling from it…is grounding. Thank you, thoughtful souls!….and thank you for sharing your experiences with texts. Truly, I feel a bit insane, allowing little words on a little screen to have such impact…I’m so sorry to know you’ve experienced similar with your LO’s.
You both underline a point I am struggling to see: In MY mind, this whole things is like…a deep connection being rent asunder. In his mind? It’s a text. Yep. The “what have I done wrong?” Thing is hovering over me…not so for him.
Even though you are giving me strong medicine, such good reminders: LO does not see or experience ANY of this turmoil. He’s just a young man who got a text from someone he knows. There’s no deeper meaning, and no urgency. His feelings about himself his art, or me, aren’t hinging on what I’ve done or expressed.
It has not been a full 24 hrs but, I feel I should not send any further message. The best thing would be for me to sit back and let time do its work. *Whatever* that work is, I have faith it will be to my benefit. But I should take no further action (except action that keeps me in NC).
My NC-motivation pie chart still has about 60%-70% portion of “Maybe I’ll make him miss me! And maybe he’s pining away for me, and unsure what to say!!!”
I eagerly await the day when it truly dawns on me, not just in mind, but in my heart, that NC has done its quiet work, in the background, knitting me back together, and I see…all this time, it may not have felt like it, but NC really has been for ME. Because I’ll be back in control. Like yoga, you just show up, keep showing up, keep doing it, paying attention. And one day…you flex towards a posture and you achieve it. You feel you’ve gotten there, without getting there. There’s no fanfare, just a knowledge time and effort have done their work. It’s a beautiful feeling and has taught me so much.
When I tire out today, I’m expecting for lim-brain to take over, and I’ll freak out for a while…At which point I’ll come back here and read your replies again to hold me down!
You are the best. Thank you, friends. I hope you both having a beautiful, carefree Sunday!
PS. LaR I would love to hear more about the white lies truths…I’m so sorry your message went *poof!* But, if you ever feel like diving back in, I am looking forward to hearing about your thoughts!
@CSC,
Hello Coffee drinking Friend. I know I’m a little late to this conversation but just wanted to say hello and I see you seem to be doing better. Although you are definitely in the mindset of overthinking everything.
Thinking of your SOs reaction to you, I was trying to put myself in the mindset of Old MJ (from when I was still married) and thinking about how like you, how caring and enthusiastic my Wife always was then. She was the one keeping things afloat. Keeping things upbeat. As I had the tendency to look negatively upon everything.. If she would ever dare ask why I was looking so “negatively” as in, let’s just say the glass being half empty, I’d find a way to explain how “positively” the glass is definitely not half full. I was short tempered, angry and wrapped up in all the wrong things. I ran a tight ship and thought I was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Fact is I wasn’t running $#!+. I was a dictator, a fraud and an idiot. She was indescribably too good of a caring and loving Woman to put up with me and my lying, cheating ways. My PAs were numerous and with the very most wrong People. It’s really no wonder I’m divorced.
Not saying in any way now this is your Husband’s problem. I remember my Wife’s overall positive attitude was quite cringey to me too at times. But I think it was probably just more jealousy on my part that I didn’t know how to have that good of an outlook on life, like she had. I was jealous I could never be as happy or as positive as her. Guess it didn’t help I was having affairs. But I was trying to escape monotony because her and I lost touch. I got heavy into porn and strippers and didn’t feel like reconnecting. Once she pulled the plug, I came whining back like a lost puppy dog, hoping she would take me back, but it was too late.
Perhaps your Husband has his own stuff he’s working through and you may not be aware of the depth of it. I might be way the hell off, but the way your LE causes you so much ruminating and roller coaster emotion is an effect of his behavior in your relationship. LEs don’t happen when everything is alright with the world. I will say though you have done nothing wrong for him to react that way. This is a problem he needs to address. Reconnecting with SO would also probably aid you in turning down the LE heat as well.
In that situation, I will add also not to fret so much about an unanswered text. Many times my Lady Friend doesn’t react to my texts either, but I also know she’s got her own involuted Soap Opera going on (Of which I have my own arduous opinions about) but I’m staying out of it. I find the more I tell myself there’s really nothing I can do about any of it, (at least until it self-implodes) the better off I am emotionally. I feel like I’ve done extremely well trying not to go all limerent on her, but there are degrees of anxiety that hit now and then, that feel limerent in nature. Staying out of her business until she wants to open up is what I find works best. Also keeping conversations surface-level seem to really help too and it’s sometimes doing just that, opens up other avenues for conversation. I usually try to let her steer what she wants to talk about and when she wants to go deep, I’m all in for the swim. I can talk just about anything with her, so that’s what makes her such a good Friend. All this too despite my disclosure. Yet I’ve also found she’s very good at compartmentalizing.
It takes work to stay positive but I have no SO to go home to and drink coffee with either. So I guess I’ll just have to take initiative and do that myself now. Raising another cup to you.
Keep doing the positive things you’re doing and thanks for keeping us updated..
@MJ
Hello fellow coffee-person. 🙂 I raise my cup to you! *clink* Thank you for your encouragement and for sharing your story about your SO, and your marriage.
Yes, I was bottoming out there, I feel slightly better now…trying to maintain NC, not panic while my two brain cells attempt to realize….it might be pretty grand not to keep riding the burning limerence rollercoaster as it careens straight into a dumpster. ha.
You make some very good points around my SO and his ways…it really helps remind me (I may be positive, but I suffer from depression)…Positivity can be gruelling. Especially if someone is dealing with, as you say, stuff I’m not aware of – at a depth I’m not aware of. I am going to try and be more mindful of that, even if it means I say less, around SO. I do think he’s really…having a hard time. Some is his stuff. Some, though, as @mila mentioned, may be my doing (as I have been lost at sea with my LE these days…)
If I may…after reading your reply…it sounds like you hold so much guilt and hard judgement around how you behaved with your ex-wife. Your language to yourself is so punative. I understand that but, I will say to you, what my dear friend (the one who is a trauma therapist) said to me once…
I expressed guilt to her, over my limerent actions against my primary relationship. She stopped walking, turned to me, and on the busy corner of the avenue, looked me right in the eye and said, “Honey, it’s never one-sided. It is ALWAYS a two-way street.” I was amazed. I just was not expecting her to give me any wiggle room. But, there it was…
At that point I felt I could breathe a little better…I’m not saying you did nothing wrong. Just that…situations are often more complex, even if one person is supposedly the “good” person. It’s just not quite that simple. I think both people begin with the best intentions…their own hopes.
Yes, you may have done things you don’t feel ok about (lord knows i have), but, you must live your life that you have today, not rake yourself over the coals for things you did in the past, and try to free yourself, because you deserve to be free and make good, satisfying use of your existence. We all, I think, try and do the best we can, to survive. Few of us are outright manipulators. Most, if not all, including the manipulators…are…dealing with things that happened to us, and making choices in a life where is no official rule-book or owner’s manual.
It can be easy to lose the thread, to get sucked in to an addiction, to a lifestyle, to a person…a situation. Other people can say it’s wrong, wonder wtf made you do something so “stupid”… but it has not happened to them. If it did, they would sing another tune, maybe one of understanding. Or, they at least would not be so quick to tell us what we should do. Nobody is completely clean. They’re just…not.
I certainly don’t have it all figured out. I’m a mess. But, I am a sympathetic person, and can look outside myself, still, with some clarity, I hope. 🙂 You seem to be a kind and understanding person, you certainly have been, for me, here. This has been such a hard time in my life (and it has brought deep shame). Hearing that you understand, and have gone through something like it. It helps to know I’m not alone…I’m human. So are you. And we are not all that bad, even if we have done things that we’d change.
With care, CSC
“It sounds like you hold so much guilt and hard judgement around how you behaved with your ex-wife. Your language to yourself is so punative.”
@CSC
Thank you for your very kind words and uplift. You too also seem like a very good Woman, who like myself has trapped themselves into believing becoming addicted to another person is an outright good and positive thing. Of course we know it isn’t, but our brains want to make us happy. In therapy I have been told countless times that when one addiction goes away, another is waiting in the wings to take over. Somehow LO got in at just the right sweet spot when I needed her (or something) and turned all my logic and reasoning upside down. Now that I’m basically NC with LO, another Lady Friend (LF) seems to be satisfying the urge. Although I’m going to fight to the death of me not to become limerent for her.
Limerence in the way it hit me was profoundly different than any other crush I’ve had on another Woman, in my entire lifetime. Never once before have I ever felt such pangs of excitement over seeing another Woman as alluring and so elegant, sexy, attractive as LO. Even as cute and precocious as LF is to me, she still does not thrill to a level that LO did or does. It’s just become an experience that I’ve tried to appreciate but would rather have had it not hit me emotionally like it did and in such massive depressive fallout, when I realized it would never be. Even my own Mothers passing, did I never cry as hard or as close to hard as, once I knew LO would never be. That says a lot about how this experience has effected me. A depression and sadness like no other.
I think a lot of the guilt, shame and resentment I hold towards myself is rooted like it is, because if I had lived up to my vows, really worshipped the God that I professed to and not tried making all things sexual about satisfying myself only, I probably would be in a way better place today. I have a family full of in laws that really resent me, a Daughter that may never fully get on board (though she’s trying) and an Ex I still miss often. (Not so much the bad stuff though.) What I really miss is camaraderie. How we were as a team and all the traditions and fun stuff we did.. Something I try bringing to my friendship with LF now. It’s just so different and new and yes sometimes it is the 24 year age difference that makes it challenging but she at least makes me feel normal again and does sometimes help me balance out my mood swings. (That is when I’m not letting her drama affect me.. 😉)
Whereas when you stated,
“We all, I think, try and do the best we can, to survive. Few of us are outright manipulators. Most, of not all, including the manipulators…are…dealing with things that happened to us.”
I think this is somewhat ballpark of the current place she’s in but I cannot confirm it.. I just try to be her friend for now and enjoy challenging myself not to take things too far or drive in limerent nature. Limerence isn’t just a crush, it’s soul crushing and it’s real and I never want another person to affect me in that way again.
Your post was very kind CSC. I appreciate your take and uplifting today. I feel like you get this and know a direction you need to go to recover. I know my Wife and I had a lot to work on, but I was in my mid 30s then. I was naturally an idiot and immature. What the hell do those 30 year olds know anyway?? (LO and LF just turned 30, lol. 🤣)
In any event, I get what you mean about it not being just a one way street. Nobody is perfect, but it’s too bad I’ve had to go through fire just to figure that out.. Anyway,
Time for coffee.. ☕
And then to work.. 🚙
Have a good evening.. 😉😁
ART AND HEART
Ella Wheeler Wilcox
Though critics may bow to art, and I am its own true lover,
It is not art, but heart, which wins the wide world over.
Though smooth be the heartless prayer, no ear in Heaven will mind it,
And the finest phrase falls dead if there is no feeling behind it.
Though perfect the player’s touch, little, if any, he sways us,
Unless we feel his heart throb through the music he plays us.
Though the poet may spend his life in skillfully rounding a measure,
Unless he writes from a full, warm heart he gives us little pleasure.
So it is not the speech which tells, but the impulse which goes with the saying;
And it is not the words of the prayer, but the yearning back of the praying.
It is not the artist’s skill which into our soul comes stealing
With a joy that is almost pain, but it is the player’s feeling.
And it is not the poet’s song, though sweeter than sweet bells chiming,
Which thrills us through and through, but the heart which beats under the rhyming.
And therefore I say again, though I am art’s own true lover,
That it is not art, but heart, which wins the wide world over.
*******
It is not Social Media’s words or images,
that sound sweetly caring, or look artistically dashing,
which knits onlookers eyebrows through and through,
but the Lim-heart’s pinning, throbbing and thrilling to
chase LO under limerencing feverish dreams and schemes.
🐦🔥
Agh @snow
I just went to see the ballet Swan Lake last night…that ballet has a special place in my heart, the music, especially. The waltz has a beautiful, yearning, twisting and careening quality…so beautiful yet so devastating…. It stayed with me into this morning. Your poem today is helping me reflect on how what I saw, and how it made me feel.
I hope you’re well, today. X
“Scene” from Swan Lake is one of my all-time favorite pieces of classical music.
https://youtu.be/RIck7OCm6UU?feature=shared – Herbert von Karajan and the Berlin Philharmonic on Deutsche Grammophon. It’s as good as it gets.
In my dreams I’m playing the oboe in the pit at The Kennedy Center.
I love this in Hannibal. It always puts me at peace.
https://youtu.be/8M5YeZIg71U?si=haKNMF_BPNf0lcDP
@Limerent Emeritus
Me too…I love how there is a kind of buzzing of the strings in the background, you just feel yourself descending into a dream. The oboe sounds like some delicate thing, extending across space…a swan’s neck, a dancer’s body. I love the accents of the harp as well… jewel-like. Wow, that link you shared is *Everything* that piece should be. Just wrenching and gorgeous!
Last night, I couldn’t hear much of the subtleties, and I missed them. Thank you for sharing that!
Oboe is such a beautiful, strange instrument. I didn’t know you played. That is wonderful…so inspiring! 🙂 It must be lovely to have a talent like that.
Thanks, CSC,
I don’t really play the oboe. I take oboe lessons. My teacher PLAYS the oboe. I took it up when I was 58. My father played the oboe in the 1930s. Supposedly, he was pretty good at it.
I play the oboe like I play golf. In most rounds of golf, I’m good for 3-4 good holes. Give me a good reed, stay between low C and high A, no more than 3 flats or sharps, and I can sound decent for 3-4 consecutive measures.
My first oboe teacher said that I would play the pitch and ignore the rhythm. She asked why I did that. I told her because that’s the way Andy Williams sang it.
“Andy’s not here. Play it the way it’s written.”
CSC,
If you like Scene, my guess is you’ll like “Morning Mood” by Grieg.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj7vHmejrPA
Some music just elicits passion.
Oboe is one of my favorite instruments, its sound has a human voice- like, poignant intensity. Has to be played well, though. Actually, for some reason I connect well with oboe players, I do know a few and at least three of them are glimmer-worthy;)
To play oboe well there is a certain kind of sensitivity needed. Paired with good nerves and lungs and a talent for reed-making.
“I do know a few and at least three of them are glimmer-worthy;)”
That’s how I feel about Women who can play the piano. It just adds so much to their appeal.. If they can play classical piano, oh it’s on. Like I will marry them in a heartbeat..
Just let me find out LO can play the piano. I’ll lose my freakin mind.
🤯
MJ,
for me, I’m a bit demanding, it’s not enough that they play, they have to play well..
Piano is nice, too, how do you feel about cellists? Also, a good percussionist can be attractive 😃
Of course the most attractive instrumentalists are banjo players!@imho and who else? You, MJ?
Thank you @Limerent Emiritus
Ooh, I do love that. What a beautiful rendition. I used to just hear music. But now…I feel I understand. In my mind, here, I see different natural elements “waking up”…an ecosystem asking itself questions among the different species…taking a big morning stretch as the sun lightens the sky. Or, I see a neighborhood coming to life. It’s just glorious.
As for your oboe…you certainly play better than I do! Or most people, for that matter. And, as for your teacher telling you to play as it’s written, I can see that. But…that is what a teacher does. I hope you still take time to play as you want, as your soul wants. Even as you also work on your technique 🙂
Dear March—Come in—(1320)
Emily Dickinson
Dear March—Come in—
How glad I am—
I hoped for you before—
Put down your Hat—
You must have walked—
How out of Breath you are—
Dear March, how are you, and the Rest—
Did you leave Nature well—
Oh March, Come right upstairs with me—
I have so much to tell—
I got your Letter, and the Birds—
The Maples never knew that you were coming—
I declare – how Red their Faces grew—
But March, forgive me—
And all those Hills you left for me to Hue—
There was no Purple suitable—
You took it all with you—
Who knocks? That April—
Lock the Door—
I will not be pursued—
He stayed away a Year to call
When I am occupied—
But trifles look so trivial
As soon as you have come
That blame is just as dear as Praise
And Praise as mere as Blame—
*******
The tiptoes of April are in shimmy —
I’m enjoying this melancholy —
https://youtu.be/1kaL8pp_m9M?si=UsH0f0WT54tH0c40 — Duke of Darkness: Symphony of Shadows x Eternal Nightfall
https://youtu.be/PLPId_awRvc?si=hqajCEoQfVUYT8p8 — What People Feel When You Decide to Walk Away — Carl Jung
“Anxiety is love’s greatest killer. It makes others feel as you might when a drowning man holds on to you. You want to save him, but you know he will strangle you with his panic.“ —
@snow i love the moody music…and may have to avail myself of that (instead of my usual techno ambient) as I work today…vive la difference!
…re: the walking away. that was timely for me….thank you for posting that. it’s so hard to do, for some reason (guilt? desire? boredom? all three? more?) but…a skill I would like to hone.
Hi all! I am 37, male, with a wife and 4-year-old son. My wife and I have been together for over 10 years and married for almost 7.5.years. While we’ve had our share of ups and downs, like all couples, on the whole we are happy and have been together since the day we went on our first date in 2014 and have always been faithful to one another.
In learning about limerence, I recognize now that there were a few times in the past when I experienced it for extended periods of time. This recently started happening again for the first time in over a decade – but now, I am married and a father, and so it has to be taken much more seriously. My LO is a 31-year-old single female at my office who started about the same time with me, about 6 months ago. Over the past few months we have become increasingly close as friends, talking alot at work and WhatsApping and such outside of the office. In the past 1-2 months, the obsession has really begun, and I find myself thinking about her often, sometimes to the point of not wanting to deal with any of the other responsibilities in my life. Today, I think the emotional tidal wave gave me a terrible headache that forced my wife to spend the entire afternoon alone with our son instead of all 3 of us being together. Nothing in the behavior of my LO indicates any kind of reciprocity or any belief that we are anything but friends. Yes, I like the high that this obsession brings, but also I know it is a baseless fantasy that could be very destructive if followed upon. Any advice on what to do? Any chance I could maintain a friendship with my LO?
Welcome J! It sounds like you are suffering from limerence. Your LO and thoughts of your LO trigger feel-good hormones in you. Based on what you shared, it seems like you are seeking those feel-good hormones even to the point of interfering with your priorities. The BEST thing for you to do right now is to distract yourself from daydreaming about your LO. I know that’s hard. When I was in your situation, I used distractions like running, YouTube videos about running, planning my next race, ice baths, engaging in the LwL community and Candy Crush to distract myself from thinking about my LO. You need to find what works for you. Unfortunately, the daydreams will create bigger problems in the future so it’s best to get that under control now.
Dr L offers many resources to help you deprogram your brain. The top two priorities when you want to relieve yourself from limerence are to go no contact and to live with purpose.
To answer your question, most people can’t remain friends with their LO.
I recommend that you explore LwL and see what stands out to you.
https://livingwithlimerence.com/blog-archive/
Best wishes!
Welcome J
Lovisa is correct with everything she mentioned. She is the Community Den Mother of the forum and gives very wise advice.
Use all the tools here that you can, that will help you. I’ve been major limerent for a much younger Co-Worker and currently going through something similar with another younger Co-Worker. This time trying not to make it so limerent in nature. Yet Lovisa is correct that Friendship is darn near impossible. In my case though, I have no SO and neither does my Lady Friend. It’s become complicated but I’m managing a Friendship without losing my mind, for the moment..
The biggest help for me has been to go Limited Contact (LC) when necessary. I would advise you to limit your contact with your Co-Worker until you learn how to manage what you’re feeling. It’s no joke. Limerence can become crippling if not taken seriously and keeping it under control.
My story and many others like it are posted all over the forum. Please keep us posted with your progress..
Hello MJ
Sounds pretty similar to my LE… but both LO and I have SO’s. I know she loves her hus and I love my wife
I think at this point she is enjoying having a close male friend, with no romantic entanglements. I think we “orbit” each other well
I admit… the pain is often quite horrible, I have suffered a LOT in the last 4 months
So, I find it odd that as as of right now… I just wish to continue being with her as much as I can
“The biggest help for me has been to go Limited Contact (LC) when necessary. I would advise you to limit your contact with your Co-Worker until you learn how to manage what you’re feeling. It’s no joke. Limerence can become crippling if not taken seriously and keeping it under control.”
This is VERY true… it is no joke at all, and has been at times crippling. I realy realy do not recommend it.
But I find find myself unable AND unwilling to break free of her
“I know she loves her husband and I love my wife”
I used to say I loved my Wife too. I also loved Strippers and porn and any other lady that satisfied my selfish behavior.. Now I have nobody.
Be careful with what you say you are unable AND unwilling to break free of.
Thank you MJ, Lovisa, and everyone else who has been so welcoming here. It seems like once limerence starts to set in, most folks here advise to either limit or cut off contact with the LO. Is that right, that at the first sign of limerence, things need to be dialed down, or else the situation will get worse? If I take one of those approaches, should I tell LO about, or just do so will not mentioning it overtly? Some here seem to think I am just about at the point where limerence could become crippling – is that correct? And if so, what does that look like?
What does that look like? Well let’s just say it’s been three years almost since the last I saw her. Last month a current co-worker (LO is a former co-worker) sent me an invitation to her and her husband’s 10 year vow renewal. I asked my wife (who I disclosed to in Jan 2023) if she wanted to come with me. It is in July of this year. My wife said “Is she (LO) going to be there? Cause I am not going if she is going to be there! I don’t want to spend a whole evening watching you pine over her!”
It looks ugly. Like spending three years almost trying to earn her trust back. Every step back seeming like ten steps back. Every side eye you get for every suspicious love song you sing while doing whatever. Knowing one of your sons will never forgive you for hurting his mother.
All the while still getting intrusive thoughts here and there, talking in your sleep and not remembering that name is forever banned so I watch my tongue. It’s ugly is what it is. If anything learn from all my many, many mistakes. Try your damndest to not put your wife through what I am still putting mine through, even as I try every day to do the right thing.
I would advise you to not disclose anything, being that you and LO are currently Friends and have not crossed any boundaries thus far. The longer you continue to ruminate and dwell on what you think the two of you could become, will only cause you more disillusionment and sadness, when/if you disclose and her reaction is negative. There have not been too many success stories on here that come from disclosure.
The crippling nature of limerence is wrapped up in uncertainty and hope. Plus any breadcrumb of positivity you get from LO is going to drive up the fantasies and ruminating. The reality of your actual life with your Wife and family (and what ever may be wrong with it) could bring that roller coaster high you feel over LO, down to a hellish crushing low..
Do whatever you can do to keep limerence fires at bay. Forget the great hope of LO and what she could probably never fully give you. Unless you’re ready to trade-in the life you’ve made with your SO and child.
To me it sounds as if LO has made no intentions to be any more than friends. If she knows you’re in a committed relationship, why should she think to step it up a notch? Is she the homewrcking type?? Do you want that in a Woman?? I can’t make that call for you. But I do totally understand the desire and craving for more from someone else. If you really love your Wife then focus on her now. Your young Son needs you to be good example too.
Hi J,
When you are closer friends with someone but realize that limerence may be causing you too much distress and you want to pull away, Dr. L advocates for a staged withdrawal. Meaning slowing pull away little by little over time. Going cold turkey can be jarring to LO and may invite blunt questions. Telling LO your intention to go LC or NC is basically disclosure which can also lead to problems.
Set little LC goals each week. A little less texting, not seeking her out as much, no alone time, whatever it takes. Do it slowly and intentionally and over time.
Btw, I’m someone who disclosed to a work LO, it went bad, and now I have no friendship whatsoever with LO. If you want to salvage a future friendship don’t disclose, just withdraw for however long, and maybe you come out the other side OK and can rebuild a healthy non limerent friendship with LO. But in a lot of cases, once limerence sets in deep, friendship is probably out of the question.
Hi @J
I will just second what all the other limmies here say. I wish I had come for advice in my own episode at a similar point. Instead, I leapt down the rabbit hole and have made a mess of my life and broken my heart at the same time.
Yes, I would advocate for staged, mindful withdrawal…since I think your LO is a work contact, true NC may not be possible.
I once heard a councilor talk about the terms “No Contact” and “Low Contact” as the usual options posited as ways to taper off or starve limerence. But, he said he believed there was a better way to look at contact – especially if one can’t just cut the cord. He used the phrase “Conscious Contact”.
This is a kind of contact where you take a breath, organize your mind, and attempt to stay away from intensity in your dealings with LO. I see it as a form of LC, but with mindfulness very much engaged. IDK if it’s helpful to have in your toolbox, but maybe…
(full discloure: I’m in NC right now but might dip into LC/CC because on one hand, I don’t want to disclose, and on the other I don’t want to come across as a weird, middle-aged, ghosting lady.)
I’ll be curious to see what tack you take. Sometimes, it takes a few tries. 🙂
J,
Chiming back in to support what Speedwagon and CSC are telling you.
Not sure anything can be gained from disclosure. What’s your imagined good outcome, whatever her response (which can’t be predicted) is?
I’m well behind Speedwagon in the steps towards LC but definitely on the path now in both lowering contact and doing what CSC described as “Conscious Contact” (good term CSC!).
It’s not without its sticky or emotionally heavy moments, but it comfortably beats the limbo I was stuck in for 18 months. The highs of that are great but the lows terrible.
It would/will be difficult at first to go against what your limerent brain screams at you to do … but give it a bit of time and hopefully you’d feel you’d ‘return to yourself’ a bit. Some of the time now, I find I have a bit more bandwith available to find enjoyment in other areas of life again. Limerence grabbed a lot of that away.
Hi J,
Good stuff for reaching out to us.
I’ll respond from personal LE experience that has some similarities to yours, and what I have learned about the neuroscience from trawling this site.
“Over the past few months we have become increasingly close as friends, talking alot at work and WhatsApping and such outside of the office”
This sounds achingly familiar. You probably knew in your heart of hearts that as this friendship grew, something was ‘not quite right’ about growing it? (in your life situation, that is). I went well over a year of ramping all of that stuff up and up and up while voices in the back of my head nagged away at me not to…
“Any chance I could maintain a friendship with my LO?”
The trouble you’ll have is that once limerence has set in, it really has no upper limit in how much you will crave the LO. Whatever amount you get of her company, attention and the dopamine high, the brain will crave even more. It is like classic addiction – just to a person. The higher the high, the lower the following low. Listen to what that headache of yours yesterday was telling you. Writing here shows that you took the first step to doing that.
Whenever I wanted more and couldn’t get it, I’d crash and ruminate and not be properly present for my SO. Weekends and holidays from work could turn into an internal nightmare. I have seen several others here say similar.
I feel like I have just dumped cold water over your idea of being friends with her, and I don’t want to completely do that. I’m on a long tail end of my LE now, after nearly two years. I’ve always maintained I want a friendship going forward, as we’d had one for a long time before I got the glimmer for her. But I am having to accept that might be a much different and reduced ‘friendship’ to the one I had – and imagined keeping and growing – at the height of limerence. And even the need to have it at all is reducing as I renegotiate all that in my mind. It is work in progress and I don’t know where it will end.
I think you’d similarly need to reduce your expectations of the sort of friendship you can have. Could it be an honest one that your SO knows about and is OK with existing, for example? If yes, how to get it there? If no, what do you want it to be and how can you renegotiate that with yourself? I found the limerent version of my ‘friendship’ with LO just got increasingly insustainable alongside my relationship with SO, until the cracks showed too much with both of them.
I’d also add you may still be in the position where you can cut this off before the limerence ramps up to a really uncomfortable level, so that’s a choice you now have with each action you take. I may be in a minority on LwL by saying I don’t think digging yourself out necessarily means having no friendship at all with the person. But it does need brutal honesty with yourself about the friendship. By picking this path you would not be choosing the easy route but one that needs self-discipline to a level that I can’t even find the words to explain. And an awareness that the more you build up the highs, the bigger the lows will also be – including the ultimate low as you let go of any false hope. You can’t have the highs without the lows.
Your limerent brain (feelings) will try incredibly hard to get and stay ahead of your executive brain (reasoning) too. That’s worth staying aware of. Nearly always, the ‘friendship’ story that limerents tell themselves is part of a sort of bargaining between the two.
Sorry if any of this was hard to read. The purpose was to help you be as ‘eyes wide open’ as you can as you walk your way through this. All you have done so far is something a lot of us here have done! Please keep talking to us as you navigate it, if it helps. People here have a lot of experience that can support you.
Thanks so much Lim-a-rant. To push back a little bit – what’s so bad about having some limerence, as long as nothing happens as a result of it that is problematic? Right now, I feel much more excited to go to/be at work then I did before my LE started. I feel much more confident there, more upbeat, more myself, fueled by my excitement at hearing, seeing, speaking with, or simply being in Her incredible presence. What’s so bad about all of that?
Hi J,
It’s a good question. I felt every bit of what you described and had the same kind of thought processes as you.
It sounds like you’re experiencing the pleasurable parts of limerence without much of the painful parts. That’s common to start with. DrL calls it the euphoria phase.
From my own experience and a lot of others I have read about or chatted to here, that nearly always turns to a stage where we crave more and more interaction with LO, feel pain when we can’t get it, etc. It becomes straight up addiction to that dopamine hit. It won’t be a ‘friendship’ like other more natural friendships we have as long as one or both have feelings. Also the “real life” guilt about our SO/family can start to catch up. You seemed to allude to a few bits like that in your initial post. My experience was that all those negative bits just went up and up, first to the point where disclosure to LO was very hard to resist (I did resist, but people on here who disclosed have reported worse outcomes), then to a point where the mental effort of maintaining the duality just became unsustainable around either my SO or LO. It took over 18 months to reach that point – months I can’t get back. I am still not properly out of the woods.
You sound like you think you might be able to hold it at the level you’re currently at without getting the bad bits. I don’t judge you if you try to (it is what I did). Maybe you don’t feel it is full limerence yet. Mine is just a report ‘from the field’ that it did get more intense and at many times pretty unpleasant. She was on my mind all the time. Thats despite me thinking I could be an exception to the rule.
I don’t mean to sound judgey, just be realistic in my answer to your question.
I am happy to answer more questions if you have them, and others here will be too. I’ve had great support from the LwL community.
hahah …ah sweet summer child, @J
i can’t wait to hear @LaR reply to this one. :))
@CSC,
I didn’t keep you waiting long 😂
It’s hard, because the way @J talks, could have been me 18 months back. I thought I could be the exception to the rule and my LE be ‘the one that went well’ (damn you, Lim Brain!!).
You know, I browsed the back catalogue of LwL for months before I first spoke up. I saw just one relationship success from something that started as an LE. The guy popped back here years later and he’d married his one time LO. I forget any more details or whether we ever heard where it went after that. If anyone remembers more about that, or other ‘success stories’ it will be the site’s patron and historian @Limerent Emeritus
@J.
“… what’s so bad about having some limerence, as long as nothing happens as a result of it that is problematic? Right now, I feel much more excited to go to/be at work then I did before my LE started. I feel much more confident there, more upbeat, more myself, fueled by my excitement at hearing, seeing, speaking with, or simply being in Her incredible presence. What’s so bad about all of that?”
I know the question isn’t addressed to me, but I’d love to have a go at answering it… 🙂
Think of it like this. You go to a plant nursery. You see this cute little plant. You say to yourself: “Why, that will look perfect in my garden!”
You buy the plant. You go home. You plant the plant. You feed the plant with lots of water and nutrients. You shower the plant with loving care.
One day, you come home from work. You can’t find your gorgeous little plant anywhere. You can only see a 20-foot pine tree that’s about to uproot the foundations of your house or fall on your roof during storm season.
What does this pine tree represent? This pine tree represents addiction. Addictions don’t stay cute and little and easy to manage. Addictions grow and grow and grow. Nobody, on first indulging in an addiction, knows how big that addiction is going to grow. No one can correctly predict the damage (or the lack of damage). Nobody knows how many resources the addiction may eventually consume.
Fenna (Limerence You-Tuber) alternatively likens limerence to a carnivorous plant. You gotta be careful how much “food” you feed that plant. Because the cute little carnivorous plant has the potential to take over your life. Don’t feed the cute little plant. 🤣
Think of your mind as a beautiful, pristine ecosystem. Think of addiction as an invasive species determined to colonise that entire ecosystem and drive out all the original plants and animals.
When Dorothy Tennov was conducting her research into limerence, she didn’t quite grasp that limerence is an addiction. What modern researchers have been able to add to Tennov’s research is the insight that limerence IS an addiction – addiction to a person. Because Tennov didn’t fully understand limerence is an addiction, she sometimes got it confused with anxious-attachment behaviours.
Tennov correctly noted that limerence feels amazing at first – very pleasurable, euphoric, etc. She also correctly noted that people often feel “free” or “set free” during the early days of limerence, and this feeling of freedom is really ironic, given that glimmer/intoxication really is the start of an involuntary process in one’s mind. (Tennov’s observation again, not mine).
In other words, limerents may feel “free” in those early heady days of infatuation, but are actually moving toward the opposite of real freedom i.e. addiction. Societal restraints might feel like an “iron cage” to some people, and that’s a fair call. But addiction is an “iron cage” too, and a much less forgiving “iron cage” than the overwhelming majority of societal restraints. You can always outrun the monster that lives in the woods or the monster that lives in the city. You can’t outrun the monster that lives in your head 24/7. Addiction is a sleeping monster that may awaken at any minute.
Think about how many pop songs there are about how “love set me free” or “I met someone special and he/she set me free”. I guess this short-lived and mostly illusory sense of “freedom gained” is what people are referring to when they report that falling madly in love induces giddiness? As you observe, early limerence absolutely does have the interesting and often welcome side-effect of boosting mood and bolstering self-esteem. But beware: all highs come packaged with lows once addiction starts, and pleasure often proves fleeting.
Hello all..
I just felt I need to share some of my recent journey.
Had a great day on Friday at work, we had a group get together at lunch, I don’t usually join in on these things, but LO convinced me to come ( really, not hard for her to talk me into things )… this is the 3rd event I have attended because of her… and at least 1 person noticed, and suggested that it just “took a womans touch… how true that is. We shared some food, and she took some leftovers of food I made, for, as she described her husband, “my love”… that was very sweet of her to just casually call him that, I pointed it out to her in a chat we had today, got a nice “heart” emoji back! Her husband is a lucky guy
We had a great walk again today, I really love getting to spend that time with her alone.
But… I messaged her end of day Friday, using some of OUR developed cutesy language, and in some of her language I am learning… have a good night and good weekend, etc
When i did NOT hear back from her all weekend in reply…. I admit I kind of spun in, and had anxious panic attacks and heart pain… thought maybe she was mad at me or just ignoring me!
Turned out, she HAD replied but the message never sent properly… so I saw her reply this morning, she felt bad about it.
The moral of all this… I thought I was doing well, getting nice interactions with her ( and I have been, but I have learned I think there is almost NO upper limit to how much I crave her company )
I was suffering all weekend, until I heard from her this morning… talk about highs and lows!!
And yes… we are really just very good friends, and she also happens to be my LO… and I have told her that I love her, as a friend, which doesnt seem to weird her out
Hi New_To_Limerence, I am also new and so hardly an expert on this stuff. However, your post strikes me as one where you are very aware of what is going on in your head in terms of limerence, but you don’t seem to see it as a problem. You basically detailed your Friday through the prism of your interactions with LO – went to a work lunch at her convincing, shared food with her, went on a walk with her, got a heart emoji from her, messaged her using your special language – and then were crushed when (or so it appeared) she ignored your message and did not respond all weekend, leading to intense pain for you. To me this behavior does seem quite obsessive and not helpful nor healthy. Do you want to continue with your limerence? Where do you see/want your relationship with LO to go? Do you want to displace her husband?
Hello J
Good questions…
I have NO desire to displace, as you say, her husband ( oddly enough, I only learned his name today! She had never said it to me before )… I really do feel we are just good close friends. I am sure to any outside observer, we are involved in an EA…. perhaps we are???
That said, I admit I do CRAVE her company. After our walks, I feel at peace.
We go on almost daily hour+ walks alone, and have very good conversations about pretty much everything. Todays main topic was about her childhood and her feeling not as supported / appreciated as she would have liked, and still would like. She has internal self confidence issues, which did not know about… she seems quite strong externally. And she knows, and I have shown her, that I am a huge believer in her! I know she appreciates my support.
“… crushed when (or so it appeared) she ignored your message and did not respond all weekend, leading to intense pain for you. To me this behavior does seem quite obsessive and not helpful nor healthy. ”
I agree, I would be happy for the Limerence and Insane cravings to go away. It is not healthy at all, and causes me, even on good days, if I dont get to see her and spend quality time alone with her…. I am hurting, a LOT. Real, terrible, physical and emotional pain.
What I want is for it to go back to us being just very close friends… I am sure that is how she sees our relationship. And I can see that happening, it will take time. And I realize that my seeing her so much, esp what is really intimate walks alone, may prolong this suffering ( for me )… but I get so much pleasure from her, perhaps only a fellow Limerent can understand that level of pleasure. In a really non-creepy way I hope.
The Patience of Ordinary Things
Pat Schneider
1934 –2020
It is a kind of love, is it not?
How the cup holds the tea,
How the chair stands sturdy and foursquare,
How the floor receives the bottoms of shoes
Or toes. How soles of feet know
Where they’re supposed to be.
I’ve been thinking about the patience
Of ordinary things, how clothes
Wait respectfully in closets
And soap dries quietly in the dish,
And towels drink the wet
From the skin of the back.
And the lovely repetition of stairs.
And what is more generous than a window?
*****
Once personalized, everything, every object becomes meaningful….
Hi Limerent Emeritus,
I read „Welcome to the Monkey house“ and enjoyed it a lot! The stories are quite different in subject and quality, but that is easily explained when I understood that they were for very different magazines etc. I absolutely love his style and unlimited imagination in his dystopia stories. While I loved „Harrison Bergeron“, I felt a bit uncomfortable with „Welcome to the monkey house“ because of the implication of tolerating rape as a means to open people’s eyes.
I know that it’s hard to tell what the writer’s take on it really is, but it made me feel uneasy.
Thanks you very much for the recommendation, I enjoyed it a lot and am looking forward to „Cat‘s cradle“!
I inserted another book though before reading „Cat‘s cradle“, I‘m reading „Quiet“ by Susan Cain- very interesting, I recognize myself so much and feel very validated, having been a kid and teen who was always „too shy“, „too quiet“ and felt bad about it.
Mila,
Glad you liked Vonnegut! “Welcome to the Monkey House” was a little disturbing in that respect.
If you’re looking for something to expand into, I recommend Guy de Maupassant. “Boule de Soufe” is his most famous work. You can find it free on the net. We had to read it for the same Modern Short Stories class. It was one of the most poignant stories I have ever read.
I also really liked “After.” I sent a link to LO #4 with the comment that if anyone would appreciate it, she would. She never responded.
I found a 10 volume set of de Maupassant’s works at an estate sale. They were all published between 1910-1920 so the translation is true to the original French. It took me 2 years to get through it.
LE,
Thanks so much, will read it! I just bought „Manhattan Transfer“ by Dos Passos“, any thoughts? But it has to wait a bit. I buy to many books and they lie around waiting. I haven’t read French writers for a long time, I just realize. I‘ve read some Proust, de Beauvoir, Camus, Saint-Exupéry, Zola, but that’s all quite long ago.
*Too many books.
Mila,
I’ve never heard of the novel “Manhattan Transfer.” I’ll ask my English major daughter about it. She’s my consultant on fiction.
I haven’t read many French authors aside from de Maupassant. I might have read Camus’ “The Guest” in college but I don’t remember. We read a lot of short stories in the class. Few of them stuck.
I read Poe, Hawthorne, Ray Bradbury, and a few others. I found Hawthorne particularly depressing. He was one of those authors who you read by the fire, preferably during a storm, while listening to Harry Chapin on the stereo and drinking to the point where you don’t care if you don’t wake up. I drove from Providence, RI to Plymouth, MA in January. Bleak doesn’t begin to describe it. Hawthorne captured it perfectly. I can see why the colonist thought there were witches behind every tree.
My daughter introduced me to “feminist mythology.” I really like the genre. “Circe” by Madeline Miller is my favorite so far. http://madelinemiller.com/circe/ I’ve read a few others.
I thought about LO #4 when I read it and told her so. Typically, she didn’t respond to my message.
“Circe” sounds very appealing to me to dig in….
Snow,
Put this one in the queue…
https://livingwithlimerence.com/the-purposeful-living-reading-list/#comment-23124
LE,
Last year, I went through Stephen Fry’s trio-mythology (read by himself) twice and tried to remember hundreds of major and minor characters in them and their stories; absolutely fascinating!
So anything springing from and relating to that world would be fun to me…
Paris is not stupid but earthen, the choice of Aphrodite is Instinctualized by the powerful nature, and all religions/ideologies hate her! Yet, even monks or priests are lured by her… all abstinence of lust is against human nature, though it can be reigned.
I feel lucky to have been hit by big Glimmer (LE could be controlled better if I knew what it is); one can’t find Glimmer or cultivate it deliberately, despite all scientific and psychological knowledge.
Hi LE,
I bought „Manhattan Transfer“ because I was told it‘s one of the great American novels, I think I’ll take it on my business trip end of the month.
I haven’t read Circe, but Song of Achilles by the same author, enjoyed it, so I’ll put Circe on my list now, too.
It’s bound to be sad though, I guess? Circe and Dido, two sad heroines of this time.
I read „the scarlet letter „ by Hawthorne but unfortunately cannot remember much. As stories about adulterous women go, „Madame Bovary“ and „Anna Karenina“ stayed much more with me.
Hallo fellow coffeehouse patrons,
You’re all so well-behaved when I’m not around I’m beginning to think I should stay away permanently for the sake of the common good. I seem to be an unintentionally bad influence on lovesick minds or something. Bizarre! 🙄🤣
@MJ.
“Limerence in the way it hit me was profoundly different than any other crush I’ve had on another Woman, in my entire lifetime. Never once before have I ever felt such pangs of excitement over seeing another Woman as alluring and so elegant, sexy, attractive as LO … massive depressive fallout …”
and
“I would advise you to not disclose anything, being that you and LO are currently Friends and have not crossed any boundaries thus far. The longer you continue to ruminate and dwell on what you think the two of you could become, will only cause you more disillusionment and sadness, when/if you disclose and her reaction is negative. There have not been too many success stories on here that come from disclosure.
The crippling nature of limerence is wrapped up in uncertainty and hope. Plus any breadcrumb of positivity you get from LO is going to drive up the fantasies and ruminating …
Do whatever you can do to keep limerence fires at bay…”
You write really beautifully, my friend. I’m stunned by the beauty of your writing. There’s clearly a very soulful man underneath whatever facetious or rascally facade you sometimes choose to present to the world. I’m loving the emotional depth, and also the emotional maturity. Sending you warm wishes. 🙂
Yes, I concur, @Sammy @MJ
@MJ you are a beautiful writer.
@CSC.
“Concur” is such a splendid word, no? 🙂
Actually, it’s amazing to hear MJ explain – in fairly accurate terms – how limerence feels and unfolds, and the likely implications of certain courses of action…
I love it when people can finally put some puzzle pieces together, and describe what they’ve learned in their own words. For example, MJ says (in slightly more flowery language) that occasional warm responses from LO will just deepen and/or reinforce the infatuation, and that’s spot on.
I did not know MJ lost his mother. I think grief can magnify feelings of romantic attraction, and maybe a lot of people in midlife especially can relate to the unlikely conflation of love and sorrow in their hearts, since they’re often losing a parent for the first time.
I think an LO can sometimes feel so special because the mind of the limerent unconsciously thinks: “This is one person who could make up for all I’ve lost in life. If I secured the affection of this one person, then I wouldn’t ever feel sad or empty again, etc.”
Desire seems to be deep attachment stuff that gets all mixed up in one’s head (sometimes thrillingly) with sex. Even though I’m a homosexual male, I can appreciate that to MJ, women mean “dopamine, dopamine, dopamine”. Dopamine makes brains feel really good. But in limerence, brains go beyond “feeling really good” and start “feeling high”. 😜
@sammy
i concur on concur! it’s a concuration of concurrences! 🙂
yes, you nailed it. and you and i are alike in that it is not women, but men, who say to us, “dopamine!” ….i love a good, handsome man. and i am not able to resist their charm if they pay me attention.
yes, it’s interesting what you say about grief. i have come to realize i am in grief, and probably have been for several years. i don’t think i ever really grieved my youth. i don’t think i ever grieved for the life i gave up, just to keep myself safe. i don’t think i ever grieved for…the choices i did not take.
when i was younger, i thought i would take chances, become a force. then, my wounds caught up to me. i settled in with a caring man, but life was devoid of passion. i was cared for. i found solace and quiet, where i felt more secure.
but, my le’s (this 3rd one especially) have revealed i have stayed too long in the safety zone. my soul craves the passion and fire i have tried so hard to starve. this is…grief, and a kind of whiplash for me.
when i read your reply, i realized, it’s no coincidence that my lo (#3) is 30. that is the exact age i was at, when i settled in to my safe choice. now, it’s 20 years later, and i look at him and see what i was. i see what i lost, and i see he has the chance to do what i did not do. and i think that’s why i love him with the intensity that i do. he is gorgeous, young, and full of promise and freedom. i yearn for that.
i have to find a way to have it, even without him, and even though i am working at a 20 year defecit. i am vowing to get more explorative in my life, even though lo will not be in it…and even though i feel self-conscious and tentative. i must send the universe a sign that i am doing something, not sitting by, submerging again. and i feel that if i do that, hold up my end, that i will be able to transform.
sorry i can’t muster the effort right now to use the shift key to get capital letters. it’s weird, but i can’t. 🙂
CSC
@csc
I’M PleaSEd (rapidly gives up weak attempt at humour) to see you mustered the strength to type capitals when signing off your name!
That is the nirvana for many of us, isn’t it? How to get what we need, yearn for, are missing or grieving, without using an LO as the crutch to provide it? (Strictly rhetorical question)
We WILL get there!
” i am not able to resist their charm if they pay me attention.”
Probably why lots of mid life limerents have younger LOs. The attention from someone younger from your preferred sex is very …. nice. Hell I still remember a compliment of being asked out for drinks from an older guy back when I was in my mid 20’s. That $hit felt good lol
We feel relevant again. Especially if our marriage/LTR has “settled” into a safe routine. We know now from our LOs we can still “catch a fish” even if we know we have to throw it back in the water.
We power through all kinds of things to better ourselves for LO err … ourselves. Wardrobe changes, weight loss, working out, etc I know I did. Anything to catch her attention. For her to notice I wore something new that I hadn’t before. “Adam have you lost weight?” “Did you cut your hair?” “That outfit looks nice on you.”
I know when I finally decided to quit smoking I so wanted to call her and tell her. That I was motivated by her encouragement for me to do so when she was still working there. “Adam you’ve been smoking way too much today. That’s not good for your heart condition. You need to slow down.” Adam: “Yes ma’am.”
And I am very proud to say my wife decided to follow suit and this is the longest she’s gone without smoking in all the attempts she’s made in 25 years. We both haven’t smoked in over a year now. I am very proud of her. To tell LO that we both worked together to quit a bad habit …. just to hear her praise …. damn limerence.
Adam, Adam, Adam…
Sometimes this job is just too easy.
Family Ties – Kiss and Don’t Tell:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MVK8aXkKAI
Family Ties – The Choice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ7XHzY2OH4
L.E.
Always the voice of reason. Doing the right thing and walking all the way up to edge of the cliff and then getting scared of the consequences and doing the “right” out of fear are not the same to me. Thankfully I never had THAT “choice” thrown in my face. I might not have feared the reaper.
Adam,
Consider yourself lucky that you never were faced with the choice.
LOs go off-script. If you’re attached, trying to be a friend or confidante can come back to bite you.
When LO #2 and I were still together, a woman showed up at my door at 11 PM one night and offered me that choice.
@Sammy,
It’s good to see you again Old Friend. Thanks so much for all your kind words up there. It’s been a long strange trip, but I do feel I have become more in touch with my most inner self..
So much emotion, feeling and pain comes with limerence and given the situation with Moms death, (years ago now,) I do believe that has played a part in tapping down into deeper depths within myself. I try to explain limerence how I see it, how it feels, takes hold and sometimes the right combination of words meld together in just the right way, so that’s how I post.
The way you’ve always written back to me and throughout the forum has always been thought provoking and I’ve learned a lot from you in a very short time. You replied back to me in the Busy Busy Coffeehouse thread last month, concerning all the replies I got from my current Lady Friend saga. I’ve been working on replies to the many who gave their opinions and you are included as well. Eventually I will post it, but it’s long and I’m still working on it. I hope you’re around to read it whenever I do. I think my insight is good thus far, but you will give a fair opinion again I hope..
I just wanted you to know I do appreciate you immensely and hope you’ll stick around. I really don’t know how well I’d be doing without this forum and the people I’ve met here. You and so many others give stellar insight, that has helped me navigate better direction and how to relate to others. I really can’t thank you enough..
Take care my Friend..
😉
“LOs go off-script. If you’re attached, trying to be a friend or confidante can come back to bite you.”
@LE
We need a thread, just for quotes like this that should be made into Lwl Gospel..
Beautifully stated there LE.. Something like that almost happened to me at work last night. It comes from out of nowhere and it’s maddening but it’s so freaking true..
L.E.
I recently got a notification of someone replying to a youtube comment I made. I had watched a video some weeks back about limerence. I had made the comment, basically what you just said. Something to the effect of “even when the LO is the one that initiates confiding in you, it can be dangerous.” The channel owner agreed with me saying that being a soundboard to someone you are limerent for is always dangerous no matter who initiates.
Someone else comment “she knew what she was doing. she is a single divorced mother looking for another man to latch onto.”
I was not happy with that comment. I’ve been stewing over it all day. How dare this person assume something like about her! This person doesn’t know what kind of woman she is!
But in the back of my head. Did she? At last update from co-workers she is with a man my age right now. They are engaged already. Adam, DID she know exactly what she was doing? I don’t like this in my head L.E.
Adam, don’t let your mind go there. He may be your age, but obviously available to her.
@CSC.
I have no idea what gender you are. My first guess is that you’re a heterosexual woman. My second guess is you’re a cyborg. My third guess is you’re a cyborg who’s never heard of capital letters… 🙂
But let’s focus on the positive – at least you’re not one of those awful ladies who think they’re some imaginary species of ancient bird and who spell their name in emojis. I met one of those once. She exhibited the strangest envy for Frenchwomen. She seemed to believe (delusionally, I’m sure) that Frenchwomen do nothing but eat cupcakes and have tacky trysts with nameless Russian diplomats. As you can well imagine, I was appalled. No, not about the Russian diplomats. Russian diplomats can take care of themselves. I was appalled about the danger posed to delicious cupcakes everywhere. This woman is a menace to every bakery in Christendom and shouldn’t be permitted to roam the streets. 😲
She also informed me – correctly – that I “don’t understand rosy-grown women”. As if I would evet wish to understand rosy-grown women! I read Germaine Greer’s “The Female Eunuch” and Simone de Beauvoir’s “The Second Sex” for the express purpose of never having to understand rosy-grown women. (Don’t tell anyone, but I think Germaine may have borrowed a few choice ideas from Simone, and then clothed those ideas in slightly more elegant language. “The Female Eunuch” is just de Beauvoir plus Shakespeare. There – I’ve saved you the trouble of having to read either tome). 😉
Anyway, back to this “rosy-grown woman” character. I wanted to tell her that the adjective “rosy-grown” makes her sound like a tomato, and sounding like a tomato is even more ridiculous than pretending to be an imaginary species of ancient bird who routinely spells her name in emojis… But at least she’s not comparing herself to the goddess Aphrodite these days. Oh wait – she is. My bad. 🤣
Don’t panic. You will get used to my sense of humour – eventually.
Either that, or you will go insane. Either alternative is fine by me. I just bought shares in three of the world’s largest pharmaceutical companies. Crazy people are actually very good for business. 🙄😜
Dopamine is fascinating in terms of the role it plays in romantic attraction. I have a theory – if heterosexual women could accept their male partners get a hit of dopamine from attractive women in general and from imagery featuring attractive women, then that concession would take a fair bit of strain out of heterosexual relationships.
For example, a woman wouldn’t need to stress out if her husband admires another pretty lady on the street. Such “window-shopping” doesn’t represent an implicit desire to cheat, but rather, it’s just the male brain releasing dopamine in the way male brains are designed to release dopamine. Of course, husbands always should show proper respect to wives. I’m not talking about disrespect. But wives don’t really need to have nervous breakdowns every time their husbands show lingering evidence of heterosexual male arousal patterns. One should be grateful, really, one has a husband who appreciates the female form. It would be most awkward to have a husband who doesn’t appreciate the female form. Outside Britain and the Commonwealth, it might even be a cause of mild alarm. 🙂
I was in a large shopping centre the other day. There was a poster of a glamorous female model in the window of an upmarket lingerie shop. Two young men walked past. The eyes of one young man strayed in the direction of the photograph. His mate caught him looking and joshed him: “Oi! She’s NOT looking at you!” (The glamorous female model was looking upwards in the photograph).
I am a biological male who experienced a lengthy limerence for another biological male. I will stick with the “homosexual” label for now, since my shoe collection isn’t big enough to justify the “transgender” label. But let it be said that I can run faster in five-inch heels than any Bond girl. That’s actually on my resume – I’m very proud of that. Heels above five inches cause back pain, though. I don’t do back pain. I don’t do stairs. I don’t do queues. I don’t do autographs. I don’t do scented candles. I don’t do recycled napkins.
My older sister is a biological female who experienced limerence for another biological female. (Actually, she’s experienced a couple of limerent episodes in her life, always for other females. But who’s counting? Certainly not me. I don’t understand rosy-grown women).
I found it astonishingly easy to support my older sister while she was going through one of her limerent episodes. All I had to do was hug her whenever she wanted a hug and tell her that she really should consider crying more often – tears bring out of the colour of her eyes. (It was not hard to pay her this compliment – this compliment was sincere. The occasional outburst of waterworks really did most marvellously and exquisitely enhance what her mama gave her). 😜
What my older sister and I have both learned as **cough, cough** supposedly homosexual persons **cough, cough** is that all the evils of the world can’t be pinned on the opposite sex. I had a male LO, so I guess there are a couple dodgy males out there. (Actually, I’m fine with dodgy males. Dodgy males are my exact physical and psychological type. The only angels I’m interested in are “fallen angels”). My older sister has had a minimum of two female LOs – I guess there are a few “interesting” women out there, too. 🤣🤣
My older sister was visiting my family and I recently, but now she has flown back to her home state. In our fridge, she left behind some of her food supplies, including probiotic granola from the organic shop. My very unpretentious father decided he was going to eat my older sister’s leftover granola. The outcome was as amusing as one might expect.
Sammy’s dad: “This tastes like … gravel!”
Sammy: “A glowing recommendation if ever I heard one!”
@MJ.
Glad to hear you are hanging in there. I know limerence can unleash a tsunami of emotion, and it’s very hard to capture in words even a fraction of the feeling felt…
So you practise your writing and draft your responses, do you? Well, no wonder your writing is so good! 😉
Being a gay man, both written and verbal expression come very easily to me – way too easily. And because writing is so easy for me, it’s not a skill of mine I actually value. There is something tremendously noble and beautiful, however, in having to struggle to find out what one wants to say, like most straight men have to do. I don’t share straight men’s struggle for clear and fluid self-expression. I just rattle off whatever ideas occur to me in the moment. But I think the fruits of struggle are incredibly precious.
My father is a straight man. Whenever he talks to me, I want to press the fast-forward button. (He takes too long to get to the point, and sometimes he doesn’t have a point). But I know the loving thing to do is to simply let my father ramble until he gets out whatever he wants to get out. Sometimes, he’s extraordinarily witty, but often he is very slow. I can almost watch his brain groping for language.
The strength of sexual and emotional feeling you have for females … is probably quite normal in evolutionary terms if a little delicate in societal terms. It reminds me of a couple of heterosexual male classmates I had back when I was fifteen. One day, two of them joked they were going to “look up pictures of Pammy” on our school computers. (Pamela Anderson was obviously the biggest female pin-up of the late 90s, and looking up racy pictures of her was clearly not appropriate behaviour at a conservative Christian institution).
I’m afraid I was an awful prig about the whole thing. I was a smarmy little hypocrite. I was like: “But would what Jesus do? Do you reckon Jesus would look up pictures of Pammy?” 🤣🤣🤣
Fortunately, the boys didn’t hold a grudge. A couple of years later, one of them even approached me (at the school formal) and hugged me and told me I’d been some huge positive influence in his life in a Christian way. I probably didn’t deserve that compliment, since even back then I was secretly battling my own limerence demons…
In the spirit of the awards season – a couple of awards for writing. Most detours in a single post: Sammy, glad we could catch you in one of your “up” moods. 😜 Sometimes you roam so far into the territory of the absurd that you remind me of my first boyfriend, a would-be comic. That’s a compliment.
I read your competition entry while on my way home with some cupcakes in my shopping bag – I kid you not! 😯 Otherwise I’m not sure if you were alluding to me – or if there have been other French women mentioned on this site. I don’t remember any jealousy or diplomats however.
Best teaser: MJ, are you sure you don’t work in tv? You’ve had us on the edge of our seats for at least a month now… And this is at least the second time! We’re all asking: how does the LF saga continue??
“You’ve had us on the edge of our seats for at least a month now… And this is at least the second time! We’re all asking: how does the LF saga continue??”
@Trifles,
Lmao at your response.
I’m flattered, but its all really no biggie..
About the only teaser I’ll give out is, somehow, through all that drama our friendship has become way better. But not in a “really better” kind of way. (If you get what I mean) That being said, I’m ok with things, but the problem is she’s starting to “glimmer-up” and I’m struggling to keep it from happening. I know it sounds weird but it’s complicated and she’s complicated. The more I deal with her, the more I’m finding that out to be. My limerent tendencies do not seem to help either. It’s aggravating. @Limerent Emeritus said it best about LOs going off script. Even though I’ll fight tooth and nail I’m not limerent for this Woman. Maybe it does apply to Lady Friends too..
My reply from last month is delayed because so many of you responded and I wanted to give proper response to what you all had to say. Since that Coffeehouse is closed now, I have to reply to all the replies in a new thread. Which I’m hoping to wrap up soon and will post.
Stay tuned..
And thanks for your interest.. 😉
@Sammy
i am hetero F (though not a very femme one, i wear a lot of black, and have the sense of humor of a 12 yer old boy), in my style, i am, according to my friends, “sexy ninja” though I refer to it as “advanced dirtbag”.
I really like your sense of humor, I’m so glad you wrote at length so I could truly get a taste. I had an English dad, and my sense of humor is definitely on the fringe, but probably within range of yours. So, you are safe with me. And I hopefully am likewise safe in sharing my own humor too. L:)
That being said, I will tell you (since you shared you are good at running in heels, it does sound like you are practically cheetah-level…an amazing skill!) that because of my predilection for the young blood, I have (purely as a thought experiment!) wondered, could I transition to M, then I could live as elegant, older gay M….at which point, because I had shed my middle-aged hetero F shell, I could have increased access to what I….crave. God, I’m awful. Yes, likely part cyborg at this point, and less like a Simone de B character, more like an Ursula le G character, in my current evolution. 🙂
Whatever, technically we are anonymous here, so I am having fun, I don’t want to seem like I am diminishing, in any way, the effort it takes, in this world, to be Out, or to be trans. Those individuals who are, are some of the toughest people I have ever met, and I am in awe of them.
Anyway – I am just letting you know how delightful it was to dive into a long and interesting message from you. You, too, are a wonderful writer. And your sister is lucky to have the non-judgemental acceptance and support you have given her. Truly, though I’m not limerent for a female (yet! I can’t rule out that it would never happen!) I am definitely needing hugs, pity, compassion, at this phase.
I had a rough night last night, and now that I’ve hit the lonely, high plateau of NC before the death of hope really sets in, I am having a hard time. I feel like I’ve lost the only source of fun in my life, the only link to the me I want to be. I am left with the me I am, and the Big Mess of sorting myself out…it is not at a thrilling “stella got her groove back” point. It’s at the “WT actual F” point…and it is scary and depressing. (Still, our fearless heroine presses on, attempting to crawl from the Pit, into the sunlight of Her Purpose Whatever the Hell That May Be Lord Only Knows.”)
This is a very hard time, and your reply brought me a smile, and I felt less weird and alone. We must find humor even in the worst, most dark things and times.
I hope you are having a beautiful, baroque, and utterly worthy day, filled with thick, high quality cloth napkins and free from the interruptive fragrance of scented candles.
With Capital Letters,
CSC
CSC
I often get told I either look like I’m going to the opera or that I stepped out of Victorian age with what I wear. “Adam were are you going?” “To the supermarket.” “Dressed like that?”
In fact just last month I bought me another pocket watch and new Albert chain. I am thinking of adding a walking cane to my wardrobe. Monocle too much? lol
@Adam
ah yes, I like to call that look “Late-stage Dickensian Splendour”. Sorry, but if one does *not* look like you they going to the opera when they go to the supermarket, are they really *going* to the supermarket at all? I posit: no, not really.
I think it’s wonderful you express yourself through clothing. I live in a city where many people do. It’s a joy to see them. Even on the worst days here, when you see someone expressing themselves, having the courage to do so, and the creativity, it is beautiful.
Do the cane! You can always leave it home if you don’t like it. And it is much less dangerous than a penny farthing.
oops @Adam
typo – “does….not look like they…are going to the opera”
“I often get told I either look like I’m going to the opera or that I stepped out of Victorian age with what I wear.”
@Adam,
Lmao!! 🤣🤣
And on top of that you listen to Dope Lemon?
Let me find out you got that blasting out in the car..
Not me but examples I found online regarding my casual vs formal. The casual I am actually working on. Already ordered the waistcoat and suspenders.
Casual
https://pin.it/hMv2W4zrn
Formal
https://pin.it/7co5LEXpu
https://pin.it/7co5LEXpu
I just don’t look as good as these dudes. Lol
Ooh, nice!
As long as we’re sharing styles, my casual is basically some gothy or fantasy T-shirt with dark pants, but to dress up I go romantic goth—velvet, lace, flutter sleeves, costume jewelry I found on the Net, etc. 🙂
I echo SL with the “Ooh nice!” 😜 Where do you get these pictures, Adam? Isn’t that (casual dude) the sexy stablehand from LaR’s farm? Sorry LaR and the other dude (he’s too young!)
And out of curiosity, what is the story behind those suspenders and their design?
S.L
Be still my heart. Goth and steampunk formal wear for women make me weak in the knees lol. Victorian too. But then something as simple as a sundress will get my attention too.
Trifles
I got the pictures from Pintrest. Said casual guy is a models for a German or Scandinavia (can’t recognize the native language on the site) website I frequent to find local equivalents as international shipping costs a lot. Unfortunately I don’t look as good as him at the same age lol
As for the suspenders I found them on etsy. I’d been watching them for some time. And I caught the seller putting them on sale for 50% off. So $60 instead of $120. They are hand made from a seller in the Ukraine.
As far as the design I usually seen them referred to as “groomsmen suspenders” or “harness suspenders”. They wrap around the back and over the shoulders instead of the usual Y traditional suspenders. But I do not know the origin of their design.
@Adam
Ooh, those are choice. I love seeing a man who loves to dress. Whenever I see one, I make it a point to go up and give a compliment. It is ever so much fun to watch a man feel confident right in front of my face, to watch him light up and kind of preen for a moment. These are wonderful!
Well, those pants are certainly not going anywhere, anytime soon without considerable effort and dedication! …And I will say, the harness-ness-ness of it all is a very interesting contrast with his rugged “I can take care of myself” demeanor. Now is that so?….
…equally, I am interested in the Purple Neckwear. Is that an ascot or a cravat? Is there a difference? Either way, I am all for it.
Better guard your heart, Adam—I can get flirty in person! 😉
Sounds like we’d better get L.E. to chaperon if it’s open bar at the LwL function.
There’s been a surprising turn of events. I was in the same office as my LO (which of course seemed like heaven, I even decided to come to the office today when I could have worked from home). Now I’ve been switched to a different office (literally 2 feet across the wall). I WhatsApped my LO about how upset I was about being seperated, hope it doesn’t disrupt our friendship, etc. She barely responded, hasn’t popped over to see me, etc. Of course, since all emotions in limerence are heightened, I’m really pissed that she’s not very upset, want her to see how crushed I am, etc. Logically, this is where I should say to myself “See, She obviously doesn’t care so much for you, focus on the person who pledged her love to you (aka wife) and get Her out of your head” but of course the excitement of pining for Her keeps me from wanting to/doing that.
Hi J,
I hate to say it, but this is where you may be entering the deterioration phases. Classic analogy in addiction is that a greater and greater hit is needed to calm your LO cravings. Bit by bit the costs start to out weigh the benefits and the balance sheet gets more and more out of equilibrium towards negative feelings.
I feel that I also need to say it: Ask yourself whether you would need to worry if any of thee WhatApps ever got out or if your wife saw them?
That’s quite sobering isn’t it?
Maybe its useful to imagine that because limerence makes us bargain with reality – knowing on one hand that what we are doing is asking for trouble while at the same time bargaining reasons and excuses to continue doing just that. The cognitive dissonance involved in holding both positions simultaneously (and covering all this up at home) takes a heavy load, work usually suffers, or people at work notice. The developments mean that its time to take stock, if you can.
Hi Bewitched, why do you think I am entering the deterioration phases? Your question about my wife seeing the WhatsApp messages is a really good one, although I think I’ve kept them pretty clean (after all, if they were too much, it would scare away LO).
Hi J,
You’re right, ‘deterioration’ is the wrong word. Different stages have been defined by different researchers into limerence, but Dr L defines about 5 stages [1. initiation, 2. euphoria, 3. fixation, 4. desperation, 5. recovery].
That video on the stages of limerence is here:
https://youtu.be/WSvh9O44IB8?feature=shared
If you haven’t watched it, I think you should because he is almost certainly going to say some thing that will sound familiar to you and what you are going through.
I believe that you are mostly in stage 2. euphoria and transitioning into 3. fixation (cravings), with the uncertainty and rumination that comes with it.
Unfortunately, without addressing limerence, the next stage is almost inevitably stage 4. desperation. At that point, the pleasure from limerence that you are still experiencing now becomes outweighed by the pain (unable to get enough of LO, seeking more and more LO contact, erratic behaviour, pushing boundaries and oversharing, putting LO off with neediness, etc). The early signs of hope where you felt that incredible connection with LO can start to feel as though it is cooling off – and it seems that they don’t have genuine interest or enough interest to overcome the barriers that exist (marriage, kids, other uncertainty,…). In stage 4., limerence just begins to feel like a trap that you can’t escape. This is true for most limerents and it feels impossible to escape without working very hard to take that LO off the pedestal, cut off contact with LO, possibly even avoid LO altogether, etc.
What other commenters here are trying to do is help you dial back your feelings before its too late, or before you get sucked in too deeply. The deeper you go, the harder it is to escape. Not feeding the reverie and rumination about LO becomes really important, as this will just act to trap you ever-deeper, psychologically.
It may be difficult for you to see all this right now. Others may be able to see it better than you can (if you are leaking emotions), which is why several commenters have urged caution. Distraction away from LO can work well. Is there something else that you can focus on for a few weeks? A personal project, music, exercise, puzzles? When a thought about LO pops unbidden into your mind, one poster here recommended picturing a ‘Stop’ sign. Different things work for different people…
Hi J,
To piggy back on Bewitched’s answer, as one of the commenters she is alluding to … what she says is spot on about what I’ve been trying to do in my comments.
I know it could feel like there has been a bit of a pile-on of groupthink in response to your posts. But every one of us is coming at it from having lived the experience of at least one LE. That means we’ve been where you are now where all feels joyful and new, then been through the darker addictive bits, and to different extents are still stuck there or know how long and how much pain and diligence it took to climb some or all of the way out.
Everyone who has commented on your posts is coming from a good place of trying to help you spare yourself some of that. You may still be at a point where that’s open to you.
The desperation phase lasted a solid 6-9 months for me, and that’s if I’m charitable to myself about what I don’t count.
J, you are right, it’s time to focus your attention on your wife. Good call. I’m curious, why did you change office space?
It wasn’t a choice (obviously I wouldn’t move away from LO voluntarily!), our supervisor likes to switch things up every so often.
J, I think we need to talk about leaking limerent symptoms. It’s possible that you and your LO were separated intentionally. Let me explain.
Us limerents think that we are playing it cool and other people don’t know what we’re thinking. Unfortunately, we aren’t as good at hiding our feelings as we think. We leak symptoms. I suspect that someone noticed something in your behavior and you were separated from your LO intentionally. I could be wrong.
Don’t feel bad, we all do it. I thought that my limerence was my problem and that I could handle it without affecting anyone else. Boy was I wrong. My SO asked me directly what was going on between me and my LO because I was leaking my limerence. Also, my LO developed feelings for me which I suspect happened because of my leaking limerence. I hate that my silly problem affected other people, but it did.
Of course, I don’t know if you were moved because of your limerence. It might be something worth considering. I don’t want you to put too much thought into this because you can ruminate on it and that doesn’t help anyone, but I do want you to increase your awareness.
@J
your gods must be strong. yesterday, you asked “what could be so bad about that?” and today you have your answer. this — when the situation moves beyond your control, but you are still controlled by it, and cannot just force yourself to care less, is why it is so bad, in a nutshell.
ask yourself if you want to keep feeling the way you do, today. because i can guarantee, if you let yourself get further involved with lo, you will. and it will get even harder to feel good, or like yourself again.
if you enjoy a good, soul-crushing, transformative, dark period, definitely do it. but, if you don’t feel like going thru that, best nip this in the bud and be thankful you are separated, for whatever reason the separation occurred.
“If you enjoy a good, soul-crushing, transformative, dark period, definitely do it.”
Well stated @CSC,
The worst of my dark period lasted almost 9 months. I’m still not fully recovered, but at least it’s not sucking the life out of me now..
Becoming a Poet
Susan Browne
I was five,
lying facedown on my bed
when someone stabbed me in the back,
all the way through to my heart.
I screamed & my parents came running,
my father carrying me into the living room.
We sat in the chair with the high sides
like wings. I kneeled on his lap,
my arms around his neck.
My mother sat across from us,
saying, honey, it was just a bad dream.
I looked over my father’s shoulder
at the dark ocean of air,
at the colorful, iridescent fish.
I tried to explain what I saw.
It’s your imagination, said my father.
The fish swam like brilliant magicians
toward the window. Then they were gone.
My parents didn’t know death like I did.
Or the fish, their strange beauty
my secret.
*****
Despite the ability to spell “Shakespeare” backward and forward, clumsily or fluently, spelling-bee champions from the under-civilized world cannot comprehend and appreciate beauty and power of Egyptian hieroglyphs, or Mesopotamian Cuneiforms, or Chinese characters, or mystical birds’ emoji chirping… — a picture speaks a thousand words!
Fear of
Lauren Camp
Google says God
then says holes
long words
heights
being alone
fear as fear of dark figures
dark spaces
dark forests
dark hallways
dark deep water
nightmares
fear of night time
night sky
night fear of not night
and dark is
weak against
dark is not evil
dark iron sword
dark inner thighs
dark is not black
dark is useless
fear of darkness
dark isn’t a word
dark isn’t the same
does not exist
*
Tonight I sat alone on a wooden bench,
thinking small facts. I had been there since
the sun first stressed to pink strips across the
sky. I believe we suffer between the void and
compulsion. I believe we tribal extraordinary
lives. The sun turned to vibrations and faster
ancestors. The mind was clearing.
*
This summer I alongside I
saw desire for its lessening face. I could give over to it,
let that vision be large as creation.
*********
Germinated with her nature’s 🔥, a 🐦🔥 rarely sees darkness or shadows of fear…. Injured❓ Then sit still, burn silently, and mythologically rise again and again 🪽
oh, @snow
some choice selections here, today. i love the contrast between these two, and the commonality.
just wonderful, wonderful x
hope you’re having a peaceful day, and feeling better than you were.
Thank you, CSC.
My lumber continues getting stronger with increased PT sessions and home stretching; however, I need to feel more powerful before I can soar over the Continent in the April’s green shower and rosy sunlight 🌦️ ….
Trifles 🫂,
As long as you haven’t, behind our 👀 ghostly 👀 , rolled a 🇷🇺 diplomat under and over your 🇫🇷 bedsheets, and made such a true limerence story a contributing piece to win the Nobel Literature prize, you’re quite🛡️from the splashy 🪒 cream made by One and Only — 🦄 pharmaceutical brand in the entire world….
As you’re getting closer to visit 🧙 🧹 🧙♂️ in London, 👁️ out for Hogwarts’ 🆕 field 🌾— a “rosy-grown tomato” 🍅 is somehow entwined 🔀 with a “moldy potato” 🥔, who is either sprouting 🌱🌱 or just can’t help throw himself at this 🍅’s stems 🍒, after gazing at the Narcissus’🤴 pond —🪞…. Ah, all softs of strange lives grow in a wild, magical land 🏜️ …. 🤔
Hope you relax and enjoy your 🇫🇷 🧁🧁 and perhaps some 🇩🇪 mulled wine over the weekend… when I have to disciplinarily, gently stretch and 🧊 massage 🐦🔥’s tiny, twisted lumbar (much better)…. 😏
🤫
Bluest
Lauren Camp
All those years seeking resplendence,
how deceived my longing has been.
Memories muscled as otters.
Where the center is
always discernible, I am reminded
courage is billions of years earlier than we are—
and loss is held like a rudder.
Little deer: imagine
there is a space
to forgive ourselves. Imagine
the slow intimate unknitting of Earth, the sky
in its steam and pleasure.
How will I greet you when I am back,
the spectrum not yet diminished in me?
*****
— a lasting delusional limerent 💜….
The Weather-Cock Points South
Amy Lowell
1874 –1925
I put your leaves aside,
One by one:
The stiff, broad outer leaves;
The smaller ones,
Pleasant to touch, veined with purple;
The glazed inner leaves.
One by one
I parted you from your leaves,
Until you stood up like a white flower
Swaying slightly in the evening wind.
White flower,
Flower of wax, of jade, of unstreaked agate;
Flower with surfaces of ice,
With shadows faintly crimson.
Where in all the garden is there such a flower?
The stars crowd through the lilac leaves
To look at you.
The low moon brightens you with silver.
The bud is more than the calyx.
There is nothing to equal a white bud,
Of no colour, and of all,
Burnished by moonlight,
Thrust upon by a softly-swinging wind.
******
Regardless lesbians or feminists or traditional females, we celebrate International Women’s Day! — 🐦🔥
Lines Written in Early Spring
William Wordsworth
1770 –1850
I heard a thousand blended notes,
While in a grove I sate reclined,
In that sweet mood when pleasant thoughts
Bring sad thoughts to the mind.
To her fair works did nature link
The human soul that through me ran;
And much it grieved my heart to think
What man has made of man.
Through primrose tufts, in that sweet bower,
The periwinkle trailed its wreaths;
And ’tis my faith that every flower
Enjoys the air it breathes.
The birds around me hopped and played:
Their thoughts I cannot measure,
But the least motion which they made,
It seemed a thrill of pleasure.
The budding twigs spread out their fan,
To catch the breezy air;
And I must think, do all I can,
That there was pleasure there.
If this belief from heaven be sent,
If such be Nature’s holy plan,
Have I not reason to lament
What man has made of man?
******
But what LwL have made of Limer men? —
🍧 – 🎩 🌽 – 🚜 🔋- 🤢🥔 – 🏵️🌱🍅 – 🫚🍵 – 📣🧊 – 👩🌾🍸🍃 🍹- 🇩🇪🍷- 🧔🥃 – 👩🍳🍌 🍓🫐 🥤 – 😿 – 💝🧙♀️ – 💘👴- 😈🧑🏭 – 😑 👨🏼💼 – ❄️ 🐦🔥 – 👽 – 🐉
Lol that emoji story gave me a very good smile! (still some I need to figure out, but got most of it – I may try to add eventually!)
This line in the Wordsworth poem was intriguing:
“While in a grove I sate reclined”
‘Sate’ is presumably a dated spelling of ‘sat’. But another meaning of ‘sate’ is to ‘satisfy’ (especially hunger or thirst). I originally read ‘sate reclined’ as meaning ‘to satisfy the need to be in a relaxed (near horizontal) position by staying in it as long as needed’!
Yes, please add more that the emojis to the list. I knew I had missed some, ex: 🧌 🧚♀️ 💃 ….
Upon the first reading, I instinctually thought “sate” meant “sit” by the context. I can’t be “satisfied” (just looked it up), because the speaker is lamenting at humanity’s failures — too much T/rules, too little “N” like birds and flowers — the central theme of early Romanticism poets.
🪳🪳 🍫 🍪
The Welder!
https://livingwithlimerence.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/dreamstime_xs_19614992.jpg
That is Him — originally Bewitched’s favorite baby! He was barred thus roaming around L’Amoor in LaR’s farm land….
Trifles: guide your cupcakes!
Adam: Hurry to Save falling blondie and brunette angels…. 👼 😇
Gosh, what have we done to him? He looks completely drugged. Too much giggle tea.
Mila,
Today is International Women’s Day, what shall we do with the Welder? Throw him to the icy pool of the Inn?
Where is our Barmen? Without him, only fresh sliced giggle tea 🫖 is available….
The farmland is not well attended — seeded and weeded, thus exotic vegetations are moulding, spreading and entwining… 🙄
I’m never far away!
There’s lots to do on the land at this time of the year, keeping me busy. But I have said many times, Amoor’s is like a room of requirement. It appears as needed. What’s anyone drinking? 🥂🍻🍹
I have also been crying in a corner since learning that Trifles has discovered the younger and more attractive model otherwise known as my stablehand. And I thought I’d kept his presence quiet! And when did the welder have a facelift into that specimen that L.E. has sent us the pic of? Surely time locked in a barn can’t have had that effect on him?
LaR 🧊,
Mila has discovered that the giggle tea with the Aphrodite spice has made the welder in the locked barn look like that!
Sorry about your ❤️🩹, please don’t be too mind/sad about trifles who got sugar high with a bag of 🇫🇷 🧁 that is supposed to be the best in the world, according to the “moulded potato”. After a full digestion, she’d come back to serve the Inn particularly with her One and Only 🦄 smoothies!
We need to call back Adam, SL, trifles who are busy with their wardrobe shopping….
Where is the Lawyer? Opps, he’s slipped away to one of our pools — the refreshed Welder and his falling angels are all there
— https://youtu.be/rf2jwgSXJVM?si=2dH2KOk0JrqR_Y__
Thanks for the reassurance Mila.
I’ve asked the stablehand what he thinks he’s playing at turning up to work dressed like that. He’s now been sent off to muck out the stables and the welder’s portaloo.
Snow sorry – this was meant to be addressed to you as well as Mila!
Though I will need to trawl posts in more detail to know what on earth the 🥔 and 🧁are calling back to. I’m sure Trifles knows what she’s doing anyway. She will be back soon enough if we do some specials on Mojitos or Cuba Libres.
Actually, I’ve had a thought. Maybe we need to think up a cocktail recipe for the “🏵🌱🍅”?
LaR🧊
No worries! In LwL’s Hogwarts or cafes, anything is possible, anything Aphrodite, 💘 and limerence related is permitted, anyone appears at different phrases with different names, given by Self or others…
The 🥔 🍅 🧁… have a long seasoned and spiced history that you’ve witnessed… 😉
Taking a break to teach/corrupt young minds now… Later!
Yes, a recipe for 🏵️ 🌱 🍅!
Wow, the house is getting full!
LaR🧊: who is your stablehand that lured our Trifles away? Under or over 40, when a man’s life truly begin (by Jung)? Can you point him out for us?
I’m back on my shift now…
Snow,
Adam sent us a photo of the said stablehand to demonstrate his immaculate taste in clothes. Trifles was rather intrigued by him, to say the least.
At least I have a clue about what to wear when I head up to platform 9 3/4 now, I guess 😃
LaR,
Thank for the reminding Adam’s favorite men’s stores! I like both styles as long as no hair on model’s face.
Yes, dress up with Trifles’ favorite, bring your Mom’s trifles, and wait on platform 9 3/4 for a lady with a box of 🇫🇷 cupcakes….
Mom is all set up with her trifle ingredients. A 👻 man can but hope, eh?
I understood the 🥔🧁bit now…
How’s things with your (hopefully by now) 🪒 cinema-going buddy? Can I pour him something?
LaR,
When you stand at platform 9 3/4, be aware that some 👻 👻 from LwL’s Hogwarts might be around to check out our sweet French Trifles …
I haven’t seen the French movie goer for about a month ever since the 2nd movie, because: 1. My lumbar was “out” on 2/12 and has not been able to sit or stand for long. 2. I could not sense any possible glimmer after two “dates”, his beard looked even more wildly crawling on his face….👎 None of us contacted the other, very cool!
From my limited understanding: when looking at the🪞 , 🥔 sometimes sees a 🥔 in it; and other times a 🍅 — strange as it is, which bothers him to no end — the two fundamentally different crops! Yet 🥔 can’t untangle 🍅 in the Narcissus’ pond, so 🍅 was claimed as a possible, close-to-“soulmate” in his shadow…. Then 🥔 (in)directly, masterfully, and humorously attacks, or explains to, or argues with 🍅 through his admiring 👻 👻 👻 audience, from which 🐦🔥 hopes he’s got a lot of fun!
Snow,
This was the image in question. Adam shared it as an example of his ‘casual’ look.
https://pin.it/hMv2W4zrn
To me, the easier solution would be to untangle the roots of 🥔 and 🍅. But they appear to be knotty roots indeed, that refuse to be untangled. Instead, members of the audience are being used (wittingly or unwittingly), rather like in ventriloquism. It does seem odd to continue it in this way, dressed up as ‘humour’. Maybe the reasons for that make more sense to you than it can to the audience members like me.
LaR,
I did see the taste of Adam and Trifles, but still not sure which guy is in purple waistcoat.
Although beard or tattooed, any of them look much more appealing than our 🧑🏭 who simply prefers nothing on his flesh except falling angels…. *sigh*, it’s a logical result of L.E’s uncontrollable limerence ages ago. As long as the Welder and the Lawyer are roaming around in LwL, the die-hard romantics L.E. cannot help but reminisce their LO “mothers”, who left the two “sons” to his sole custody….
I hope you keep him well locked in the shed unless some LwL ladies requests him with an impeccable outfit of Adam’s choice.
LaR ,
„To me, the easier solution would be to untangle the roots of 🥔 and 🍅. But they appear to be knotty roots indeed, that refuse to be untangled. Instead, members of the audience are being used (wittingly or unwittingly), rather like in ventriloquism. It does seem odd to continue it in this way, dressed up as ‘humour’. Maybe the reasons for that make more sense to you than it can to the audience members like me.“
I‘ve reached the point where I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.🙈but no need to explain, I will continue to watch this conversation in wonder!
LaR,
🍅 and 🥔 share one thing in common in your mother tongue “…O…O…O…” I grew up with pictograms, so emojis are much more preferable to express…
Despite the similar colors in roots, look at their contrast appearance! Which one looks more delightful and appetizing (before being peeled and French fried)❓
Due to their knotty roots, they are usually grow far apart in any farm, isn’t it? But in LwL, any vegetation is allowed to roam around and voice out its vegetational frustration, delight, or sense of humor, right?
As a mythological bird 🐦🔥, I might have a tiny bit easier time to decode some linguistic expressions of ancient vegetations… especially when they are “mouldy”….
I’m still with you LaR, even if you lost Mila.
Although if the 🥔 and the 🍅 find it humorous, isn’t that all that matters?
You say 🥔, I say 🍠
Mila,
“Right now, I possess all the sexual magnetism of a mouldy potato! 🙄😜🤣”. Doesn’t it sound cutely 🧲 ?
Trifles:
Do you French fry 🥔 or🍠?
❄️, 🇫🇷🍟 of course, but for us it’s just 🍟. 😜
Trifles,
We limerents have expanded your xLO’s agriculture expertise — a “Mouldy” 🥔 rents about a “rosy-grown” tomato 🍅 and French 🧁 ; then 🍅 shouts the strange entanglement with 🥔 ; then a 🌽 explains the knotty roots’ tendency and goes to invent a cocktail made of potent 🌾 +🥔 + 🍅 + 🌹
Can we humans, mammals, birds chat with each other without the agricultural delight 🤩 ❓
LaR,
“And when did the welder have a facelift into that specimen that L.E. has sent us the pic of? Surely time locked in a barn can’t have had that effect on him?”
You are correct. The Welder looks like Fabio. I intended to pic to depict his effect on the ladies.
“He’s LE’s 1st son after his limerence for LO #2, in addition to the Lawyer, the 2nd one from LO#4. Like or dislike it, LwLers can’t get rid of them to break LE’s heart, so we’ve found ways to put up with their existence.”
As scary as that idea is, I like it!
That linked picture is The Lawyer. They’re “Twin Sons of Different Mothers.”
Take it away…fan fiction being what it is. None of you can kill them off. But, there’s a lot of artistic leeway.
LE,
The midwife of your twins is ❄️, you’ve got to credit correctly!
As you are “proud” of your irresistible “twin” boys from two different LO mothers, I wonder how far apart or close the lim- 🐉’s earthly son, —“mouldy” 🥔 , is from Lim-🐦🔥‘s earthling daughter — “rosy-grown” 🍅 ⁉️ Are their knotty, earthen colored roots possibly unidentical “twins”❓
LaR: are you ploughing GMO seeds in LwL farm❓
Whatever seeds I’ve ploughing on the LwL farm at the moment, judging by the behaviour going on, then they are not the type we’d need the authorities to know about. Maybe I’ll give some to Trifles for her trip to Primrose Hill.
Trifles – yes I agree, if 🥔and 🍅are both happy with growing on distant corners of the farm with their roots still somehow entangled underground, then that should be all that matters. I just wasn’t sure that was the case for both, but your judgement of it may be better than mine. I don’t try to make it my business normally, but then you and then I were kind of ‘called in’ to the most recent bit of the conversation. I just thought 🍅 might have been trying to keep the roots clearer these days.
❄ – you are correct – with the farm structured as it is, as long as both crops continue to grow anywhere within its boundaries, gnarly roots remain a possibility.
I bet you never knew how much mileage (‘acreage’) we’d get when you first told us your XLO’s passion for agriculture 😅
LaR,
I hope that you have GMOed some “steel” seeds into juicy 🍅’s root, so it becomes unbreakable and unblemished while being tossed high and low…
Look at cheeky 🥔! It can be thrown anywhere anytime, unbroken and adoptive, ready to quietly root deep or hibernate long until mould spreads…
Trifles: always guard your 🇫🇷 🧁 carefully, especially when waiting for LaR 🚜 🌽 🧊 on the platform 9 3/4, so your 🇫🇷 🧁would not be unnoticeably snatched to make that One🦄 Only 🪒 cream!
But 🏵🌱🍅, why would 🥔 be hiding in the 🌽 looking for 🍧? 🥔 and 🍧 are not a natural limerent match. Or do you think it purely about trying to steal 🍧’s 🇫🇷🧁? Surely we are not about to have another round of the mistaken 🧔 and 👖 which would require 🥮 as ammunition?
@LaR @ 🏵️ 🌱🍅
it has taken all my remaining strength and mental skill to initiate both Capital Letters and emoji in order to reply. but i have persevered.
i am utterly drained from my typographic effort, and thus, lack the cougar-vigor necessary to chase any welders, nor to undertake any possible shoo-ing of multiple fallen angels from his physique.
CSC,
Well, I for one very much appreciate your typographic commitment.
Please rest assured that the Welder and the Lawyer don’t look like leaving town anytime soon (confirmed by their father L.E. today). When you recover some strength, you can see what you reckon to them both.
Just keep on inhalin’ and exhalin’ for now.
LaR🚜 ,
Spot on, spot on…. 🌽 🌱🚜
Whatever brand, 🧁 is unnatural for 🍅 (knocking 🍅 ‘s 🦷 🦷 off) but 🍧 and other farm earthlings are unaware that 🇫🇷 🧁 can be used as ammunition like the splashy 🪒 cream was in the LwL’s feud — newer 👻 👻 are obviously oblivious of it.
So I suggest that 🍧 or 🥔 admirers be mindful, especially while visiting Hogwarts where a powerful wizard can masterfully converses in Shakespearian tongue. 🥔 would naturally avoid another uncouth farmland 🚅 🔫 🚄 by directly throwing 🥮 at 🏵️🌱🍅…
The only amusing 🎯 of 🥔, whoever it verbally charms/flirts with(not looking for particular ones), seems to have been only 🐦🔥, some of its unwanted nature were hated and unexpectedly repressed inside 🥔, according to its soliloquy.
Yet 🐦🔥, as well as 🥔, can survive like “cockroach” on earth, what one is going to do about it? — alluding her as 🍅! (not a rotten one at least… 😂)
It’s just my intuitive speculation 🤭, could be the way off the edge of your 🌾 land.
CSC,
Thank you for calling me 🏵️🌱🍅— my earthling reincarnation birthed in your charmed chat with 🤢🥔 …
In order to hang around/in L’Amoor in LwL, you’ll need to master those typographic, which might be exhausting initially but may eventually floor you with 😂 😂 😂 — a very powerful healing therapy — LO would shrink in size and appearance in those cougher 😹😹😹….
It matters little what has been said, but imaginations, imaginations with infinitely expanding and pictorial mind/spirit…. It took 8 years for L.E. to admit and officially acknowledge his secret, wanton sons out of his LE 2&4.
As LaR says, try to inhale and exhale deeply and slowly… time slows down and even freezes for millenniums in LwL.
This welder needs some clothes and something to weld, I‘d say.
Also, how the stablehand got to think it‘s appropriate to be dressed in lilac waistcoats for his work is beyond me.
LaR should stop crying over spilled trifles and show his employees a firm hand.
When has the Welder intended to weld anything ever since he lost Bewitched’s limerent fever? Without LaR’s titanium key, he’d have broken into the Inn a long while ago….
Then, while LaR 🧊 lost his T 🧠 and 😭 😭 over the spilled trifles, the deprived, grieving CSC stole his key and unlocked the Welder without any clothes… — delighting some sore limerents’ 👀 …
Adam: could you fetch some decent outfit for ONE and Only 🦄 Welder🧑🏭?
Did someone say “mojito”?
And you’ve all got me wrong! I wasn’t pining for the baby in the lilac waistcoat but the Man in the leather suspenders..! Adam, those are seriously going to be a hit!!
And they are perfect workwear for a stablehand/groomsman, so get off his case 😉
I like the waistcoat, but why a leather belt AND leather suspenders? Is he that afraid his trousers might slip down? It’s all a bit too much for my taste. I’d say, either waistcoat and belt, or leather suspenders over a normal white Tshirt.
But I’d prefer this guy over the stoned welder too.
If there is any fear of anything falling down, I can get hold of another one of those titanium locks easily enough.
Oh my goodness, the welder is on the loose and has everybody all a-flutter again, lol
(Think he’d like my flutter sleeves?)
@ rosy grown tomato
Haha thank you for making me laugh. Indeed much deprived, depraved, grieving…whoever, whatever, this welder is, I am happy to hear he has been liberated. (At least, it sounds like a good thing?…. as I understand it he’s usually kept locked in a shed somewhere on the premises.)
Adam,
I‘m sure you look dashing in waistcoat or suspenders, but I still root for those parachute pants and the dance routine you promised.
Somehow Marcia deserted us, so we won’t get our slogan t-shirts, I’m afraid..
CSC,
It isn’t fair to keep you in the dark any longer. So, a brief history of the Welder. There are rumours that:
1. He is L. Emeritus’ son, along with The Lawyer
2. He came into LwL town / The Amoors Inn when fleeing a zombie apocalypse
3. He has enjoyed relations with at least two ladies of LwL, who know full well who they are
4. He burned down a wall of my bar while covering my weekend off
5. Snow asked me to sort out the lock on his pants out of continued concerns over his behaviour
Does he sound like someone you want to know better? The agreement here was that I would only give the lock combination if it was explicitly requested by an LwL lady. Nobody has asked for it yet.
I urge caution.
CSC,
“@ rosy grown tomato”
If you want to address me with the new given nickname, you need to write it out in emoji 🏵️🌱🍅; otherwise, I’ll ignore you next time! LaR wants to make a new cocktail named after it — a choice of the “mouldy potato”.
“this welder is, I am happy to hear he has been liberated. (At least, it sounds like a good thing?…. as I understand it he’s usually kept locked in a shed somewhere on the premises.)”
He’s LE’s 1st son after his limerence for LO #2, in addition to the Lawyer, the 2nd one from LO#4. Like or dislike it, LwLers can’t get rid of them to break LE’s heart, so we’ve found ways to put up with their existence.
The Welder has been locked before last Christmas, but a cougar-spirited limerent somehow got him free. With the shed-stored soap 🧼, cologne, and 🦄 🪒 cream, we saw at least 4 angels falling at his feet!
The might Adam, the Inn’s gatekeeper, has gone to painstaking wardrobe shopping. So the uninhibited Welder got into the inner pool of L’Amoor and his father caught him stoned with 4 falling angels without an outfit
He’s probably back to the shed now since LaR presumed his duty. If you want to mingle with him privately, you have to LaR🔐 for the lock code, and take any/all consequences….
I’ll keep this simple:
The 🏵🌱🍅 cocktail:
– Take an incredibly large measure of Scotch whiskey
-Add 1 bottle of tomato juice
-Garnish with rose petals
-if you wish to make it very toxic, add strong 🇷🇺 vodka 🥔
In Britain, with a nod to our history, we know this drink as a “Bloody Mary Queen of Scots”
LaR🧊,
Can you add some ingredients in “🏵️🌱🍅 that could melt mouldy skin of 🥔🥔 from without? they can’t take hard drinks, so just soak them in a bucket of 🏵️🌱🍅!
“I wasn’t pining for the baby in the lilac waistcoat but the Man in the leather suspenders….”
Trifles (or anyone): can you link which attire you’re talking about? (Open up that picture and copy the link here). There are the way too many for me to locate which one you refer to!
I want/need to have an idea of LaR stablehand, who is working at L’Amoor premises.
I’m surprised to see this post still active. I mentioned earlier that I am on the autism+ADHD spectrum, and I have mentioned in posts, going years back, that I believe that most, if not all, of my LO’s were also on the spectrum. Today I’m ruminating really bad – let me explain.
But first some background information for context: I work a graveyard (overnight) shift at my job. Sometimes (becoming often) we are allowed to volunteer for extra hours on Saturdays; occasionally (becoming more often) this overtime is mandatory, except half of the time half of the department is a no-show anyway (so it’s voluntarily mandatory I guess – ha). The day before, we all discussed exactly how and when our mandatory six-hour shifts might actually play out; some of us simply could not come in, or they had plans for later in the day. I just planned to come in at my regular time (10:30 PM, like I always do, so I can catch Swing Shift before they leave).
Anyway, I got to work last night and I was apparently the only person (I felt that I was) in the entire plant. Being alone in a deserted factory with various machinery kicking on and off, and a random cacophony of alarms going off everywhere all the time can be kind of unsettling. I got started on the highest priority jobs, completing every arduous step of the process by myself, and making only slow progress. About 4:30 AM, the automatic door to my workspace opens, and it is . . . LO. I knew it was a possibility she could come in a little bit early, but not way before everyone else. I must also mention that I am only aware of one other Saturday she has ever came in, even when it was supposed to be mandatory, and that would have been long after I had left for the day. So, this was a bit unusual.
After I explained what I was doing, she says “OK, I’ll keep taping, and you keep running.” This, incidentally, was the first time we had ever actually worked together; we have worked in close proximity before, but not on the same things. This is where it becomes obvious to an operator how totally inefficient it is to try and do every part of this process with no help. We both kept to ourselves and knocked out some work. At one point I broke silence and asked her “So, is this about the earliest you have ever come in?” She just smiled and nodded as she was looking down at her work.
Eventually, other people from Day Shift began arriving and she continued taping panels in another room. She came to my area one more time before I left and I showed her where I had left of with the machines. I thanked her for coming in early and helping me, but she had no response – she almost never does. I then slipped out unnoticed as she was having a conversation with a guy from the Weekend Day Shift.
I have noticed for a long time that she can be very animate and articulate when she wants to be, and she definitely hears and processes what I say to her, but she never has anything to add! It makes me nervous talking to her. This is why I believe she may be on the autism spectrum as well. What do you think?
Possibly, and/or introverted. I know if I have nothing to add to a subject, I stay quiet. It’s better than saying nonsense. 🙂
Perhaps she’s not signaling anything and sees you as simply a Co-Worker. It has been repeated to me throughout the forum many times, that if the other person has interest, then they will be the one reaching out for contact with you.
LaR,
When you stand at platform 9 3/4, be aware that some 👻 👻 from LwL’s Hogwarts might be around to check out our sweet French Trifles …
I haven’t seen the French movie goer for about a month ever since the 2nd movie, because: 1. My lumbar was “out” on 2/12 and has not been able to sit or stand for long. 2. I could not sense any possible glimmer after two “dates”, his beard looked even more wildly crawling on his face….👎 None of us contacted the other, very cool!
From my limited understanding: when looking at the🪞 , 🥔 sometimes sees a 🥔 in it; and other times a 🍅 — strange as it is, which bothers him to no end — the two fundamentally different crops! Yet 🥔 can’t untangle 🍅 in the Narcissus’ pond, so 🍅 was claimed as a possible, close-to-“soulmate” in his shadow…. Then 🥔 (in)directly, masterfully, and humorously attacks, or explains to, or argues with 🍅 through his admiring 👻 👻 👻 audience, from which 🐦🔥 hopes he’s got a lot of fun!
I make one drunk post on the weekend and ya’ll take it and run with it lol
Mila
I wear a belt all the time no matter if I functionally need it or not. A belt, for me, is a fashion statement in of itself. Same goes for my incoming leather suspenders. I just won’t look as good as him in them.
Yeah Marcia abandoned me. 🙁 Don’t leave me too Miss Lovisa!
LaR
You better reign in your beefcake ranch hands. These ladies are chomping at the bit lol
And what’s with the lack of cheesecake my friend? And I don’t mean the dessert. Or I maybe I do. Or maybe I just need to post a Bettie Page picture. Or maybe I shouldn’t post intoxicated.
One example of Jung’s synchronicity —
🤢🥔: — “She exhibited the strangest envy for Frenchwomen. She seemed to believe (delusionally, I’m sure) that Frenchwomen do nothing but eat cupcakes and….”
🇫🇷🍧: — “I read your competition entry while on my way home with some cupcakes in my shopping bag – I kid you not! 😯 “
🏵️🌱🍅: — 😳😶… ⛓️💥💦 (🔇😂😂😂😂 … 4️⃣☀️🔕)
🫂 Adam 🧔 🥃 ,
Who likes cheesecake here? Your Marcia dives for brownies (☹️ no emoji for it). With her absence, I don’t have any to throw around… 😜
Do we still have that drinking date? My lumbar really needs a supportive tall stool at LaR’s bar!
Snow
“Cheesecake” in the US is slang for pin-up or glamour model, like the aforementioned, late and great Bettie Page. The term was coined in the 1940/50’s as a way to disguise what it really was. As in that day and age pin-up could be both clothed and nude photos that were distributed via mail and/or “under the table” in certain stores. Irving Klaw was the photographer and distributor that made Bettie Page famous in the 50’s. She passed on December 11, 2008 of either a heart attack or pneumonia. One of the most beautiful women ever, in my opinion. She was very photogenic and had a beautiful smile.
Adam,
My father had a bunch of Mens Magazines from the 50s in the basement. He had the entire set of Playboys from 1957 – 1960. He also had a bunch of magazines from the era that didn’t survive the 50s. There were original pictures of Betty Page in some of them. I knew where they were.
I was in the Navy. When my father died, I came home. The magazines were gone. I couldn’t come out and directly ask my grandmother where all the girlie magazines had disappeared to. So, I said I’d head to the basement and see what was laying around since I’d have to do something with it. I said that I’d start in the cabinet where the magazines were hidden.
My grandmother said that she’d found a whole stack of girlie magazines in a paper bag. I feigned innocence and asked where. Somehow, grandma had found them. I asked what she did with them.
She gave them to a handyman that was doing some work for her. At least, somebody got them as opposed to going in the trash. It was really hard to contain myself.
I agree with your opinion of Betty Page. The woman was gorgeous. The Navy should name a ship after her. A Betty Page class brunette could even trump a redhead for me.
Imagine your LO wear these: —
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gp06n0d8eo
@Snow That’s for 20something celebrities. That wouldn’t fly at my church! lol
@SL
I was wondering who dares to put them on in normality — I would pass out if given such a dress to try in public, even for a wager! 😵💫
For 👽 in the space❓ 🙈
What’s your emoji?
L.E.
I was there for the resurgence in her popularity in the 90’s. Mostly due to Rocketeer as the Betty in the comics (and the movie it spawned) was modeled after Bettie Page.
I have many Bettie comics as well as art, shirts, posters, etc. She’s probably the only woman I have ever had more pictures of than my wife. Jim Silke (who recently passed himself) and Oliva are easily my two favorite artists to render her. Though Dave Stevens is really good too.
Those magazines would have been an amazing time capsule to experience. Dave Silke wrote a very good biography about her called Bettie Page Queen of Hearts that has a lot of her original old photos in it. It’s amazing how photogenic that woman was. And the smile that could melt hearts at the same time as raising the blood pressure. Truly, God took his time with her.
Adam 🧔,
Thank you for the culture enlightenment! I had no idea about the slang of “cheesecake” which I learned how to make from scratch from my 🇫🇷 girlfriend.
I think our barman prefers 🇬🇧 🇫🇷 🐄 🍨 , 🥫, 🌹 🥃, 🍹…. If he’s not chomped by LwL ladies, L’Amoor would go bankruptcy!
Please keep an eye on LE’s wanton sons— 👩🏭 and 🧑💼!
@coffeehouse
I suggest that in our “name” area, put also to whom your post intends to address: a specific a person, a group (SOs, L’Amoor, or all). By doing this, we could provide needed, targeted help, avoid unintentionally make some grieving hearts feeling worse, or simply jump into some head-cooling “pools”…
Of course, all sub-blogs and conversations are still open, topic if one is just curious to wander in to listen silently, add thoughts, give consolation, or blow out soulful emotions after a cocktail, mulled wine, whisky, or “throw” 🧁, 🍅, 🥔, 🌽, 🍨 or 🍮 (no stones or jewels) around humorously…
Some people need straight-forward LE information, some sympathy or empathy, some “tear pusher”, some “laughter stimulus”, some monologue therapy, and some repeated ventilation… — All is for benefits of hopefully recovering from our respective, long-or-short LEs or from SO’s shared unspeakable sufferings. By giving a bit more information in “Name” field, we can produce more purposeful, efficient posts to readers in various needs.
Just a thought after imho 💃 message to Libra….
First time poster here. I work with my LO. We work together a couple of days a week. We are friends, whatever that means. There has definitely been some flirtatious behavior from both of us. Normally, he drives me to my car at the end of the day (I park far away). We spend time in the car, talking about our days, or weeks, or whatever funny thing we think of. It feels very special to me. Unfortunately we are both married. I am not very happy, he is happier. He gives off all the body language signs of being attracted to me. He looks so deeply into my eyes, and for the longest time. I think that is what made me first fall for him. When I go on vacation, he gets really sad and says that work feels “quiet and empty” without me. So…even though I know I shouldn’t, I fell into this, and because he does reciprocate to some degree, he has certainly reeled me in. Well now, things have changed. We went on a work trip. I drank too much. I was jealous because he was talking to a beautiful woman and I walked off from the group. He chased me down and said why are you leaving us? What’s wrong? And I said I can’t say, please understand. And he said well how can we have a relationship if we don’t talk? So, you see how he is with me? Well later that night after too much alcohol I told him, without telling him, that I felt like I was in love with him. He told me he loves me, he cares about me, go to bed. So I did. Well the next day I got a text from him in the afternoon. People were talking about us behaving “like a couple”. He said we have to make sure they don’t get the wrong idea. I said of course. Later that night he told me he loves me again, but all he wants is friendship. Ok, makes perfect sense. But he got kind of angry about the whole thing, and when I tried to explain he said don’t say anything, you just drank too much. Well now we are back at work, and he doesn’t give me rides anymore because he said he has to be careful (Which he does, our boss said something to him). BUT…now I am really grieving. My fantasy has imploded, I don’t get the special time at the end of the day anymore, although if we both have a break he still wants to talk to me. But when I see him grab his bag and leave without me, it feels crushing. Also, we used to hug a lot and now we don’t and I don’t know how much is due to being careful and now much is due to what I said. At any rate, this is where I am. I can’t get away from him and I’m devastated and feel so rejected. I have been trying to get over him for so long, so I suppose this could be the thing that does it. But it’s excruciating.
Hi, HB! Love the name! Hanalei Bay is such a gorgeous spot.
I am so sorry this is happening to you. Sounds to me like there is mutual attraction, but one thing to know is that some people can experience love and affection for others without experiencing limerence. Dr. L calls this the two tribes. Your LO may be in that other tribe. When you disclosed and he started to feel the heat he was able to pull back without the distress that limerence causes and he is able to see the relationship rationally without the obsessive emotions.
I also have a work LO that I disclosed to after 10 months of getting close to her. We are both married and she did not reciprocate my feelings. I do believe she had some level of attraction to me based on her actions but I also believe she in not a limerent like I am and can look at our relationship very rationally as friendship where I just get caught up in obsessive romantic desire for her.
I still work with this woman and over the last 2 years have put in a lot of effort to get my emotions in check. First thing was to admit that the relationship is dead. Sounds harsh but it is honest. My LO did not want something beyond mild friendship and I can’t tolerate just friendship so we had no common emotional interest. Dr L has a great blog on whether you can be friends with an LO. You may want to give it a read. I decided to disengage from LO and have gone very strict LC. I only interact now with LO on a need to basis about necessary work items. It’s sad because we could be closer friends but LO seems indifferent anyways and the moment I pursue friendship I just get caught right back up in obsessive limerent desires to pursue her romantically which just leads to me feeling let down and hurt.
The other thing that has helped is building non limerent friendships with other women. I have become close to another woman I work with without feeling limerent over her. She is much more emotionally compatible with me than my LO and I have a lot of affection for her that is positive.
I hope you can also find ways to take control of your emotions. LC or NC if possible is a very highly recommended method to combat the worst parts of limerence. It has worked for me and there are a number of blog posts here on it. Also read here at LwL all about purposeful living and put a few things into practice. The goal right now is just to stabilize your emotions, not to get rid of limerence outright. That’s just going to take a lot of time.
I really feel for you, it’s so tough but you can pull through! You are already on the right track coming here. Feel free to ask a lot of questions, the community here is very encouraging and I am sure others will chime in soon.
Thank you so much for responding, I really appreciate your words of encouragement. It’s interesting what you said about him maybe having mutual attraction but that lack of obsessive emotions. I hadn’t thought about it like that, but it makes perfect sense. And it actually makes me feel a bit better. Like yeah it’s real, but he can pull back in a way that I can’t (but certainly am trying to!) As you know, when you have to see someone at work, it makes it so much harder to totally cut the cord! I do think you are right about admitting it is dead, and I have been trying to force myself to spend time in that space. I find it really easy to latch onto a little bit of hope and ride it….but that is not going to help me. As hard as all this has been, if it helps me to truly see that the future I want is simply unavailable to me, then maybe that can help me move on. I don’t know what out relationship will look like a few months from now, or what I want it to look like. Right now I agree with you, LC is definitely the way to go. The lack of rides after work helps, although it is really triggering my abandonment wounds. I’m trying to talk myself into a better space with that. Also to remind myself that he got into a bit of a spot and has to protect himself, and I want that for him, too. The boss said he doesn’t want people to think things are happening that are not. Which honestly, kind of offends me in a way! Like why can’t we just be two friends helping each other out? Why is the fact that I am a woman and he is a man mean something must be “happening”? But I digress!! I am also trying to talk to him less at work, because sometimes he talks about the things he does with his wife (he has always done that) and that triggers me, too. So why put myself into that position. So that is where I am at currently. It’s funny because he has been very clear that he wants us to continue the friendship, but I wonder what that means to him. I’m hoping that for me, I can move out of this fog and back into the easy friendship we had without the romantic feelings clouding everything. I don’t know if that is possible and if it’s not, then I just want to maintain the LC. Thanks for listening, so glad I found this website. Also, Hanalei Bay is my happy place so that is what I’m focusing on…peace and happiness.
Hello Hanalei Bay,
You said
“The boss said he doesn’t want people to think things are happening that are not.
Which honestly, kind of offends me in a way! Like why can’t we just be two friends helping each other out?”
I work with a lot of males and I don’t get those comments. However, someone once said that me and LO make a great couple, in front of us both.
Why ? Because we were probably leaking our affection for each other. You think you are playing it cool, but limerence has a habit of leaking and people notice things, like your eyes widening, fidgeting, flushing or whatever.
One guy once mistakenly thought my starry eyes was directed at him, which was awkward and a wake-up call to how I was acting at the height of my limerence ! I was on some kind of ‘high’.
My LO is long distance and so we don’t work in the same office, but if we did, I can imagine the feelings you are having and your sequence of events would have played out very similar for me. It’s a good reflection, so thanks for sharing.
It’s tough for you, for sure, with lots of triggers, but seems you are on the right way, and you are getting good input from lwl community.
Best wishes
IMHO has a great point. My whole office knew Adam had a crush on LO. I got mercilessly teased about it by some co-workers. Like in this instance.
My boss, LO and myself in the same office.
Me: “LO what’s on the agenda for work tomorrow?”
Before she could answer.
Our boss: “She won’t be here tomorrow, she’s going to Mexico to get married.”
Me: “LO you’re not going to get married in Mexico are you?”
LO: “No Adam I am not going to get married in Mexico. Just vacationing.”
Me: “Oh thank God, you almost broke an old man’s heart.”
Our boss: “But she is going to cheat on you.”
Me: “Oh no that will break my heart even worse!”
So yeah again IMHO makes a good point. We may think we are handing it chill. Or people know it is just light hearted interactions. But in the case above I was in real distress about the possibility of LO getting married or ….. that. And there are probably another half dozen examples I could post that prove I had little to no control over my limerence leaking out all over the place.
Hi Hanalei Bay,
A very warm welcome to LwL.
My instinct is to say that, painful as it will feel, he might have done you a favour by distancing a bit. I picked up that you don’t feel happy in your marriage but he is happier. As long as one or both of parties are committed to marriages, there is not going to be any great outcome of limerence. On the other hand there are lots of bad outcomes from getting sucked in further – people on here have described it as being trapped in a dance, rollercoaster or emotional storm. Basically, a prolonged period where the LO occupies your mind all the time. That phase of mine, for a female friend and coworker, lasted 18 months and is still on the tail end now, all while I was in a committed relationship. It leads to uncertainty, turmoil and frustrated feelings that you can’t ‘obtain’ them – agonising at times.
I know it will be a process to get there, but you can work towards trying to see his behaviour as an early exit from that process – a chance to recentre to yourself – before limerence sinks you lower. The potential to get stuck is big. So while his changes to behaviour do hurt, they could also protect.
Lots of distraction of your brain when you feel down is good in the short term.
Good luck and do keep reaching out to us if it helps.
Thank you for the warm welcome! Yes, uncertainty, turmoil, and frustration really hit the nail on the head. I have felt all of those things. I look forward to a time when I can let all this go. I agree with you that the distance from him will help, as painful as it is. And it is very painful indeed. I am really struggling with, how could he seem to like me so much, but when I put what I was feeling into words, he just dropped me like a hot potato? I understand that his feelings are different from mine, not as intense for sure. But for 2 years now he has been drawn to me, too, and it show in things he has said and done. How does he just walk away. Makes me feel like nothing. He made me feel beautiful and desired, although definitely on an intermittent basis, hence the limerence! LOL! I know I should just feel that way about myself anyway, but I just feel so much less attractive and funny and fun now (he thinks I am funny and fun too). So I am trying to build up my self esteem so that I can feel that way about myself. And center myself, like you said, that was a really good point. I also like what you said about his behaviors protecting me…that is a new perspective for me. Thanks again for answering my post, I really appreciate your thoughts.
Hanalei Bay,
(I had to Google Hanelei Bay – I now want to go there!)
I’d just add that the protective behaviours he’s displaying, and what he’s feeling inside, are likely two very different things. He won’t be able to just drop it from his head (unless he’s a dodgy character type like a narcissist which he doesn’t sound like). I know all this will be hurting for you but don’t assume the outward displays from him reflect what he’s feeling (think how much we all shield the world from our true feelings, especially when the stakes are high).
Stay strong and stay with us. There are a wealth of good people, stories and information here.
Hanalei Bay,
Welcome to the forum. The reply from Speed to you is a spot on. His situation speaks volumes of what disclosure can do in work situations.
My LE was way different in nature and more or less devolved into limbo. Limerence in the way it hit me, made me extremely depressed. Sometimes I’m still not sure if I’m completely over her.
I’ve since met another Co-Worker Lady that I’ve developed some feelings for over time. Both her and I are single without SOs. This happened because our connection seemed so genuine and she reciprocated in a way that felt so promising. I don’t feel as limerent this time since there is less uncertainty with this person and it does not feel as crushing and sad. Because of how she’s made me feel, I did disclose some feelings I was having awhile back and I thought I was being gentle in the way I handled it, but it had an opposite effect. It more or less confused her and for a few weeks things were very awkward at work between us. Eventually we talked things over and are better now.. I guess..
However we’re still only friends and it appears that is how she wants to keep things. Sometimes I still wonder about that though because we have some moments of very good connection and often sit in her car before work. Nothing physical ever happens but we at least get to talk away from the confines of work. I really enjoy those chats. While we’re at work there is often moments of intense eye contact throughout the night and sometimes we even have lunch together too.
It is very hard to maintain just a friendship with her though. Sometimes I feel a need to go LC..
Because I know a personal matter going on with her that she doesn’t know I know about. Since it deals with her and another Co-Worker who is being adulterous toward his Wife. It’s something she is probably never going to tell me about but just the fact of how she manages to gloss it all over with me just really grates my nerves sometimes. I’ve actually struggled sometimes to want to even keep talking to her. Yet oddly enough I still manage to find the reasons why she still intrigues me. It’s a situation I never saw coming and it’s very aggravating to say the least..
Guess what I’m trying to say is relationships can get really messy. Especially when there is a marriage involved. I completely understand the pull and attraction of wanting someone else. (I’m divorced for pretty much that reason) Your LO is probably feeling like he’s in a very difficult place, trying to juggle work, marriage and friendship/feelings with you. Being that you’re all up in your feelings now for him, I would advise you to not over-do things and say or do something else you might regret later on. This could have a very negative effect, being a situation at work. In limerence we often end up in an altered state of mind. Being that this feels excruciating to you, please take care of yourself and definitely try to begin going LC.
I wish you luck as you navigate this. Please stay in touch with us here, as you are almost always likely to get the positive support you need.
I will stay in touch. I am so appreciative that there is a community of people who understand and want to help. Thank you!! So you understand how hard it is when you work with someone…because you have to keep seeing them!! I agree that I need to not overdo anything that I may regret later on. I feel grateful that even with my boss noticing that we “acted like a couple” and said something to him about it, she never said a word to me. I know she likes me a lot, so that is helpful. And I am beyond grateful that even with this recent pullback from him, it could be so much worse. SO much worse. I mean he has stated pretty clearly that he wants us to keep my friendship. He could have done the complete opposite…completely withdrawn, gone cold, told the boss I confessed feelings to him. Yikes even the thought of that makes my blood run cold. Anyway, I hope I can get over this. Feels impossible now. I think the worst is that all the hope, excitement, and joy I felt so often with him is gone now. I know I need to get it back in another way but there really isn’t much that gives me those feelings right now. Thanks again!!
Hi @Hanalei Bay
I can so relate to what you are saying. The mixed messages. Getting mistaken for a couple. Having a friend who is…emotionally more….to you. Becoming hooked on the way they fill a gap inside you. I know it. It is part of my story, my pain, as well. I know it can be absolutely awful. Really affirming at the beginning, but as it degrades it is exactly as you say. Excruciating.
I am so sorry you are going through this.
From my own perspective, I will say, I blame myself for *allowing* LO into my life, for allowing myself to be charmed by him, to fall deeper. But, I also feel he could have been more careful with me. (I, personally, am careful not to flirt with people I am not actually interested in. My LO is a charmer, and a flirt. Also, I think, a bit of a user.)
Mixed messages make it so difficult, they are so disorienting. I am just going to ask this, as a matter of course — Do you think you could say to him, “I like you a lot, that is obvious. But, you disregulate me, emotionally, and it’s very painful. I need to limit my contact with you. I mean no offense, but ask that you respect my wishes.”
I wonder…could you, in a quiet moment you have with yourself, *imagine* advocating for yourself, standing up and speaking to him, for that part of you that needs protecting, right now. To draw that protective line. What would that feel like?
Not as a manipulative thing, to draw him back. It could NOT be that. Could you imagine doing this, to protect that part of you that needs you.
This is just a question – one I asked myself. I was able to go “no contact”, you are not — so, your options are different. But I ask you this, because after I felt such grief, I did ask myself this question, and I think it helped me a bit.
I am so sorry for your pain. I understand.
I am going through my own pain right now as others on this forum well know! But, I may be a few weeks ahead of you as my physical withdrawal has passed, and I am now coping with the grief that is in it’s wake. Emotionally, but also in my life, which has become quite a mess….(that I’m working to fix.)
With Care,
CSC
“I like you a lot, that is obvious. But, you disregulate me, emotionally, and it’s very painful. I need to limit my contact with you. I mean no offense, but ask that you respect my wishes.”
That’s a great line @CSC. I’ve copied that and I feel like I’m going to need it for a “certain someone” at some point..
😂
https://images.app.goo.gl/fP2AqoQ2NQfifid1A
Bloom County 1982
Thanks @MJ
It occurred to me the other day (yes, I am in NC right now 3 full weeks!…beginning to come to my senses, again). Still very disoriented. Still have to grieve and go through. But, I’m not feeling utterly crazed anymore.
Even if I never get to say this out loud to LO, I sometimes imagine myself saying it, or something like it…when I get a craving…it’s been helpful, trying to train myself to be my own advocate (instead of my own enabler, which I am VERY good at.)
I’m happy it is helpful! :)It’s the least I can offer after getting so much help from you and others during my very dark days a couple weeks ago!
@Limerent Emeritus
yep….well that’s what would probably happen if I actually tried to say it! haha
LE,
A friend of mine from middle school loved Bloom County and got me hooked on it back in the day.
Thanks for the funny reminder.. 🤣
Hi CSC,
I’m glad you are doing well so soon, despite the pain of NC. Also glad you didn’t throw yourself off even a small garden bridge ( see above, reply).
I also may take a note of your disregulation quote for future use!
Im sure that some (many ?) LOs know exactly the affect they are having on poor emotional, romantic, sensitive types (even if they don’t know the concept of limerence) and they cultivate it.
Wow, your story sounds so much like mine. I found myself nodding my head a lot as I read it. I like what you wrote about talking to him. I think for now I’m going to practice that in my head. I’m not at the point where I would be comfortable saying it out loud..haha. He is definitely pulling back which kind of forces me into LC.. but that’s what I want right now, too. He is too much for me right now. Seeing him and hearing him in the office is hard. I can’t imagine being in a place where I wouldn’t feel these feelings for him…like is it possible to truly see him as just a friend? I guess we will see. I am so anxious to get over him but I guess you can’t force yourself to get over it. Thanks gain for your kind words of support…and I wish you the best on your journey, too. Hopefully your pain will subside soon.
Hi Hanalei bay. Welcome to LwL!
Limerence with colleagues is very hard, as you need to co-exist with them, and this becomes very painful. I have been in this situation and so can understand how you must be feeling. Getting out of LE has been the most difficult thing that I have had to do, but I am sure I will come out as a more learned and wary person.
I see that you have already received some great advice from all the wonderful people here.
I will just add that do not worry. Things will look up and you will feel better in due course of time. We are all here to help. Cheers.
Speaking of colleagues …. I watched a video on youtube some time ago about the top 5 or 6 (can’t remember now) scenarios where affairs start. Co-workers/workplace was #1. With women entering the workplace more and more in the last 50 years or so coupled with the workaholic culture of the US has, it’s no wonder. People sometimes spending more hours at work than they do at home. Working hand in hand with the opposite sex. (Or same if that’s your preference.) You end up building a report with each other, especially if working on the same project.
Which is exactly what happened to me. Got mandated to work with LO on a project for 6 months. In the beginning; no issues. A nice lady to work with that was a good teacher in training me on how to help her. 2-3 months in a completely different thing. Hours and hours of working with her. A very friendly and warm lady turns into a glimmering star that shined everywhere she went.
Yeah no surprise the workplace is #1. I was calling it before I even clicked on the video thumbnail. Now why it turned out that way with her and not any of the other female co-workers I have had in 30 years at other jobs I still don’t know.
Mutual attraction in limerence is excruciating because you know the other person wants you/fights it too. Disclosure can be just as bad as unrequited love/limerence. But it just takes time for it to fade. I hope it fades as quick as it can for you so that the pain goes away.
💙
Thank you, it helps to be able to talk about it with someone.
In life I’m no longer capable of love,
Diane Seuss
of that old feeling of being
in love, such a rusty
feeling, rusty,
functionless
toy. In odd
sequential dreams
I can still love.
Love in the old way.
Here is a sweet lozenge.
Here is some broth,
on whose surface
I have floated
edible flowers.
I can feel the old feeling
where I used to feel it,
in my chest.
In the dream I feel it,
but when I wake
the feeling is gone.
There isn’t a word
for the feeling that replaces it.
Not numbness or emptiness.
It is a nameless feeling.
Racy in its own way.
A racy new toy.
****
Post-limerence❓ “ It’s inexplicable, racy in its own way—racier, maybe, than romance.” —Diane Seuss
Hymn of Nature
Felicia Dorothea Hemans
O! Blest art thou whose steps may rove
Through the green paths of vale and grove
Or, leaving all their charms below,
Climb the wild mountain’s airy brow!
And gaze afar o’er cultur’d plains,
And cities with their stately fanes,
And forests, that beneath thee lie,
And ocean mingling with the sky.
For man can show thee nought so fair,
As Nature’s varied marvels there;
And if thy pure and artless breast
Can feel their grandeur, thou art blest!
For thee the stream in beauty flows,
For thee the gale of summer blows;
And, in deep glen and wood-walk free,
Voices of joy still breathe for thee.
But happier far, if then thy soul
Can soar to Him who made the whole,
If to thine eye the simplest flower
Portray His bounty and His power:
If, in whate’er is bright or grand,
Thy mind can trace His viewless hand,
If Nature’s music bid thee raise
Thy song of gratitude and praise;
If heaven and earth with beauty fraught,
Lead to His throne thy raptured thought;
If there thou lovest His love to read;
Then, wand’rer, thou art blest indeed!
********
☀️ 🌱🌱🌱 ☀️
Beautiful poems!! Thank you!!
Hi Coffeehouse,
I’m shouting out to see if anyone else has experienced major fatigue during the ‘deterioration’ / ‘death of hope’ bits of their LEs, and if so what insight I can draw from you.
I am firmly at that phase now. Whilst there is definite relief to feel freer, I also feel pure exhausted to a level I rarely remember feeling. I’ve experienced depression in the past, so know how that feels for me. This isn’t the same as (though I am not oblivious that it could be a mild case or turn into one). I still feel plenty of hope in other ways – this is more an actual, physical, visceral tiredness, to a level where I can just stumble through at minimal levels of doing what I need to do each day.
I wondered if anyone else had this happen at similar phases of their LE and strategies they used to deal with it. I am following the basic good practices like decent dietary choices, more hours for sleep, distraction with other interests/people, and as much exercise as my energy levels and time permit.
I’m not asking for longer term ideas for getting past the LE (that moment may come, but I have a fair idea on that already). I am just after tips for coping with the fatigue for now. Is it just a case of waiting it out and sleeping lots until this stage has done it’s work with me?? I guess I can’t speed it on its way.
LO’s frequent presence in my working life and how to have a functional relationship after limerence is another area that is getting trickier. I am doing all I can re LC and ‘conscious contact’ (and she is too, it seems). She is no longer on my mind that much when I’m not around her, other than annoyance at myself for how much of my life I let her consume and for how long (anyone please answer this, but 📣@Mila and @Bewitched, does any of this sound familiar?!).
The reasons why I feel the fatigue are not probably as important as the fact I do. But I sense it is an accumulated tiredness debt, prolonged by the kind of ‘faux positive anxiety’ that accompanies an LE. I kept pushing myself harder (not just in the LE, in lots of areas of life, work especially) because the dopamine supply gave me falsely enhanced energy and motivation. Take that high supply level away and I guess it is no surprise the debt now needs to be repaid?
Would welcome any thoughts.
Hi @L-a-R
First, let me say it is a privilege to be able to try and help you, because you certainly helped me…at one of the worst moments in my LE…I honestly do not know what I would have done if it hadn’t been for you, and others, who were so kind and supportive to me, when I was too depleted to do anything for myself.
As for your energy level…I will speak from the perspective of my prior LE’s (1 and 2)…though there were many more, before that (from my teens to and early 30’s) 1 and 2 were the most recent…happening in 2022 and 2023 respectively.
Both of these, I went NC, so they’re slightly different than your situation. But, I remember the death of hope in both.
I think…for me…that phase, just around / after the DOH, was a time of…feeling a bit mindblown. I was also feeling grief of a vague, yet expansive nature. I felt like I had been so overstimulated, for so long, that I had to catch my breath.
If I had to paint the picture, it would be…feeling like a wrung out towel (wrung out, ragged, but not completely ripped apart) and feeling like I one of those scenes where a shipwrecked sailor washes up on a random beach and just lies there breathing deep breaths.
So, my “advice” …ugh. I don’t like using that word. But, what I would imagine, is that maybe paying attention to your body is the best thing. Paying attention to only what you need to do, for your body, to help it feel more tethered. To feel, to allow yourself to know, you are bringing yourself back into safe harbor.
I would imagine that does take time. It certainly does for me. And in a world where everything and everyone are so fixated on “now!’ And “life is short!!” It can feel like you must rush to feel improved. But, you don’t have to. Your body will not be rushed, and it does have its own ways. I think your point about being overstimulated for such a long time — in such a state — says so much. Since your mind can’t tell you to be quiet, your body will.
I find time observing nature to be my best remedy. Sitting outside and feeling the wind on my face. Listening to water, or birds…and if I can’t get nature, or don’t want to be outside, sitting quietly with a non-taxing book or a very entertaining, non-taxing Netflix, works too.
Also, you may need to eat more. Were you eating as much during your LE? You might need some nutrients. I sure do. I ate double lunches over the weekend, and am making sure I get enough protein. I think I was so worked up over my LE that I didn’t eat as much – in meals, or, in portions, when I did have meals.
What do you think? Do these sound like they hit a chord with you? Am I on the right track? I will certainly be interested to hear what the others say, too!
I think you have every reason to be exhausted. Limerence is insane, intense, and like going through a private war.
With care, CSC
CSC,
“First, let me say it is a privilege to be able to try and help you, because you certainly helped me…at one of the worst moments in my LE…”
I am not sure exactly which moment you mean (it doesn’t really matter – that it helped when you needed it is all that matters). I am glad to pick up in other posts scattered about that you feel a couple of weeks stronger/past the worst. I feared when a week ago you were struggling to press the shift key that things had got worse still for you, so am glad to hear you are strengthening. It will be up and down, better days and worse days, as it always is.
“I felt like I had been so overstimulated, for so long, that I had to catch my breath.”
This and this! And it has been kind of, for me anyway, a faux energy/anxiety – not a real level of energy I am capable of sustaining. The tiredness is hard to go through but was inevitable. When ‘in it’ with the LE, I kind of denied that this moment would ever come. Shipwrecked sailor, wrung out towel and safe harbour are all really great metaphors by the way – loved them!
“Since your mind can’t tell you to be quiet, your body will.”
Exactly – you got it. That’s what’s happening and that’s why it’s good to listen to the body. Nature, water, birds (as well as books and Netflix), yes and yes – being outside with nature is always the calmest thing for me. Your reply has hit good spots.
“Also, you may need to eat more. Were you eating as much during your LE?”
Early on my eating took a hit – I lost a lot of my appetite etc – but later on and for a longer spell, I went the other way and comfort ate. I was not your typical limerent spending all their time down the gym or on a new fad diet – LO is not the type who’d be impressed by that anyway. So this part for me now becomes about eating well, not eating more. SO enjoys home cooking and maintains a very good, balanced diet, which affects the food we have in the house and the meals we make – so that’s all helpful for me.
“I think you have every reason to be exhausted. Limerence is insane, intense, and like going through a private war.”
I think above all I just needed validation of this point to increase my ‘permission’ to myself to just let myself feel how I do now, and ride it out until it passes.
Thank you, as ever, for all your thoughts and understanding CSC 😊
Probably a few months back I wrote a post about this exact thing, feeling fatigued at just the day to day of it all. The exhaustion of keeping up LC. Tired of having to coexist with LO at all and just wanting her out of my life. Yes, I have been there. That feeling lasted for a few good months but I feel like I’m pulling out of it now. I am still burdened by all those things but they all come a bit easier now. I have a lot of LC momentum going on and I find myself thinking and enjoying other people apart from LO more and more. My LE might be at its most mild that I’ve experienced. But don’t get me wrong, LO is still LO and I have no delusions of trying to be her friend. I know I have to keep managing it.
I say just hang in there for a bit and keep grinding away. It will get easier.
Speedwagon,
I remain in awe of how long you have ground it out and done the right thing. I am glad to hear you have more momentum now and that your LE is at a milder point – that’s great news.
You’re right about mine being a stage I have to go through. I think we might be talking about different forms of tiredness – mine currently is a literal physical tiredness (want to sleep all the time). Yours seems like tiredness at being stuck in the situation. I wonder if I have more of that to come. LO and I have distanced (what seems like a conscious limbo-breaking choice on both sides) but we are still friendly at work, and I don’t want to push that away entirely unless it fizzles out more naturally. I think it’s a ‘watch this space’. The better news is that I’m managing to deal with the work proximity without getting dragged back into limerent feelings at the moment.
Keep going with what you’re doing! I hope you’re coming to the end.
Hi Lim-a-rant,
I‘m sorry you feel low!
I haven’t experienced a fatigue to that degree, mainly because I transferred two times to new dopamine- fuels.
When the last LE ended without transference, I had a lot of resentment, anger, sadness, but not necessarily fatigue. But I can imagine that either it’s the dopamine-loss- quite literally the death of something that made you feel alive, and maybe the suppressed grief of it, or it’s the unconscious effort of pushing the LE away? Or it’s simply as you say it, the result of having given so much energy. In that case I’d also say, try to find new sources of joy (please not another LE), go through it, maybe journal to let you grieve properly, maybe even get some help with a neutral person you can talk to, and it will pass.
But!
What I would do first is to cross our all other possible reasons for fatigue. Before you declare it as a mental or limerent thing, rule out all physical reasons. I‘d let my blood get checked for iron etc. You don’t want to ignore some real physical problem because you assume it’s the LE.
*cross out
Mila,
Thank you. I have zero plan to replace it with another LE. I don’t think I can put you poor souls on LwL through that! I am armed with all the knowledge about limerence and my triggers now that I didn’t have before. So I hope, like you do for yourself, not to head down that road again.
I can totally rationalise the fatigue as a hangover from the LE and other things I had happening simultaneously. Thank you, though, for the suggestion about a physical health MOT. I did have reason to get my iron levels checked a few weeks ago and they were all good. If the tiredness persists beyond my next work break and accompanying relaxation time, I’ll ask for some more checks. I expect it to fade with time and patience.
Dear LaR,
Wow, you have come a long way, by the sounds of it. Overall, this feeling of fatigue sounds very much like the road to recovery.
I had been thinking of your recovery process yesterday because I was doing a bit of self-reflection on my own recovery, which has steadily improved, but very slowly, much much slower than @CSC’s! I was wondering about where you were in the process and whether you’d experience a similar trajectory to mine.
I distinctly remember the stage that you describe. I think that if I was to characterise it that I felt more bored than fatigued. I have described it before as feeling like life was beige and that, while I no longer felt those roller coaster ups and downs of limerence, I did feel that life was less interesting. I remember feeling worried that life would change into something less appealing without LO excitement and stimulation and how this might come to feel like a loss – by which I mean, grief for the feeling about a less interesting life rather than the loss of LO specifically – by this stage I had accepted that LO was not a prospect and it was more about what LO represented in my life.
A big worry that was motivation was lacking (could this be linked for you too?). I was anxious that some of the improvements that I made in my life would drift and get lost without the huge motivation of limerence. I think, if I can be so presumptuous, that your fatigued reaction may come from a slightly different version of what I went through, which is about covering all bases in your care for LO, SO, and others including folks on here at LwL). Perhaps the expression of limerence, for you, was a huge upsurge in tenderness and thought for everyone’s well-being. If so, I can only imagine how draining that must have been, the cognitive load so significant that you are now simply tired mentally. Even though a nod or a smile is often enough for others who depend on us, I think if we are wired that way, we can go way over the top in limerence. And others do not appreciate the cost of our care – I know this from being the listening ear myself – in fact, people come to depend on us more and more. I agree wholeheartedly with Mila that you should have a check up, physically, as that will put your mind at ease. Then, all being well, maybe you can simply accept that you need a rest from frying your brain with so much thought, care, analysis, responsiveness,…. (if any of these things sound familiar to you?).
My own ‘beige’ phase dates from, perhaps, eight or nine months ago and I can now look back and report that I moved beyond that and into a better stage. For example, I can now see that I was worrying for nothing on the ‘motivation’ side and that I still feel good and motivated on my personal goals. I also feel like life is no longer ‘beige’, but instead has what I would characterise as a normal level of colour, no pyrotechnics, but plenty to look forward to and motivation to get projects on the go. But – I can’t stress this enough – this did take time – it has taken me 5 years, or so start to finish! So, in summary, I think, perhaps, that you just need time to get over your fatigue stage. As wise heads on here have said, that may be less frustrating if you simply accept it. For me, I also needed some little “carrots” to help keep my brain occupied and prevent negativity (for me this was silly things like baking a cake, to improve morale with the family and have mini-celebrations). Maybe now is not the time for anything deep or meaningful, while you are tired, just something pleasurable and taking time to indulge yourself a bit? What does a little self-indulgence for LaR look like, I would be fascinated to know!?
Hi @Bewitched
I have been meaning to reply to a dangling reply you posted to me, a while back (regarding pride) and I just haven’t done so! I have composed it many times in my head…I’ll get to that when I have time to actually write something decent. 🙂 I had a couple of questions to ask you, and I just haven’t organized them!
But just for now, I wanted to tell you what a lovely, introspective and descriptive mind you have. You have clearly looked at your LE across many facets. It’s so helpful to read about how you have turned it over in your mind. 🙂 I can relate to what you’re describing, around motivation and around going back to one’s life, without the thrill of LO. You’ve helped me see some of the things I’m feeling, more clearly.
❤️
Thanks CSC, that’s a lovely thing to say.
(You made my evening ❤️)
Hi Bewitched,
As ever I hugely appreciate the time you take to correspond with me.
“I was wondering about where you were in the process and whether you’d experience a similar trajectory to mine.”
I feel things have moved quite quickly – perhaps more of a ‘quick jump’ than in yours, but I’m not sure on that? LO has been helpful with shifts to the boundaries (removal of most of the behaviours that generated uncertainty and hope) without ever being unkind. I think it has allowed my ‘F’ death of hope to catch up with the ‘T’ death of hope. I feel it unlikely I will get sucked back in, but am not blind to the early warning signs when they come (have encountered those once so far). Despite the tiredness etc, I do see all this as a net good thing that opens the door to coming back to myself properly.
I think what will happen next for me and LO is working out whether and how there can be an ongoing friendship and/or professional relationship. Again, reading how this has been for Mila and you (although I know you don’t categorise it as ‘friendship’) at least gives me some different insights into how that could look / what different things there are to consider.
“A big worry that was motivation was lacking (could this be linked for you too?).”
I channelled a lot of my motivation in that one direction (and things associated) for ages, so for sure, it feels different. There are other directions it can go in instead – but as we discussed before, and like you put it again above, a lot of it for me is about how to channel it towards *myself*, not trying to direct loads of it externally.
“I also feel like life is no longer ‘beige’, but instead has what I would characterise as a normal level of colour, no pyrotechnics, but plenty to look forward to and motivation to get projects on the go”
I would take that, at the moment. I am super-glad to hear that this is how it feels for you now. It sounds like great progress in the world of the White Dame in the last 9 months. Even beige would be OK and acceptable for me, just for a while, once the tiredness subsides a bit.
“What does a little self-indulgence for LaR look like, I would be fascinated to know!?”
Day-to-day, it would start with toast and a pot of tea under the duvet with a good book or watch. The caveat is that the pot of tea means I don’t have to move for the duration of drinking it. It is funny that I should be saying this now, as I am indulging in exactly such a pot of tea as we ‘speak’. I am on for a Netflix binge for several hours.
Then LaR time would ideally involve nature – my ideal retreat would be glamping or camping, walking, being off grid, cooking outdoors etc. This is not meant as part of the ‘LWL farming joke’ – it is very much my favourite way to spend time. When I go away, I don’t really want to talk to people! (I constantly talk to people – give me animals and birds!). It’s something that I do a few times each year – usually with SO but I have also done it alone. Enjoyment of that each time in the second half of 2023 and across 2024 was very much hampered by the lim-brain, but I think I’ll be able to do it this year without that shadow hanging over it too much. So that’s to look forward to. I agree with your idea too that doing some nice home-cooking is a good motivator.
Keep going with everything you’re doing – your progress and your posts continue to inspire 😁
Hey LaR,
Aw that indulgence of yours sounds fantastic. Its not really indulgent at all (sounds very healthy) – only thats the best type! Properly nourishing.
I hope you pencil-in plans for when you feel better. Anticipation is often the best part, eh?
Maybe stay away from the poetry though (a terrible lim brain weakness of mine when it comes to nature, sets me right off 😬). Walking so much you fall into a dreamless sleep, waking to birdies and nature’s rustling, sounds fab.
Hi Lim-a-rant,
It’s great to see that you received an abundance of support. I’ll add my thoughts…
I vote that you try an outdoor run or maybe some yard work. I always feel better when I do something physically demanding in the sun. Just thinking about it makes me happy.
By the way, it sounds like you are experiencing some depression. I wonder if you have been cranky with your loved ones. Arthur Brooks says that the keys to happiness are enjoyment, satisfaction and purpose. I think he is right. Also, I find that gratitude, exercise and sunshine are the best ways to regulate my mood.
Hi Lovisa,
You are right with basically all you say. Yes, being outside, physical activity or, best still, both together really are the best medicine. I will do as much of that as I can as the weather warms up and the days get longer. As for running – I know that has served you fantastically. I have an old but persistent injury that has stopped me from running for several years (or at least I have used it as a reason/excuse!). But it’s fair to say it has healed a lot more now, so maybe I will force myself to put it to the test gently one day very soon. I’ll update you if I do!
LaR,
The Harp of Broken Strings
John Rollin Ridge
1827 –1867
A stranger in a stranger land,
Too calm to weep, too sad to smile,
I take my harp of broken strings,
A weary moment to beguile;
And tho no hope its promise brings,
And present joy is not for me,
Still o’er that harp I love to bend,
And feel its broken melody
With all my shattered feelings blend.
I love to hear its funeral voice
Proclaim how sad my lot, how lone;
And when, my spirit wilder grows,
To list its deeper, darker tone.
And when my soul more madly glows
Above the wrecks that round it lie,
It fills me with a strange delight,
Past mortal bearing, proud and high,
To feel its music swell to might.
When beats my heart in doubt and awe,
And Reason pales upon her throne,
Ah, then, when no kind voice can cheer
The lot too desolate, too lone,
Its tones come sweet upon my ear,
As twilight o’er some landscape fair:
As light upon the wings of night
(The meteor flashes in the air,
The rising stars) its tones are bright.
.
.
.
*********
https://youtu.be/LHb24KJnRZg?si=tuaadsOjO8kpiXN8
****
My same, old 🎶: expect, watch, and stay 🤫 QUIETLY 🤐 with fatigue, sadness, nostalgia, or “loss”…. [🐦🔥 not in any better place]
❄️ is with the King of Darkness : — https://youtu.be/0hvcxQ5DEJ4?si=2PxbLhBA8cJFLDh3
Snow,
Thank you for the persistent reminders just to sit with it, watch it, let it run its course. I appreciate you keeping on at me about this point.
I remain optimistic that Phoenix (sorry, don’t have the right emojis on my computer, only the phone, and it was going to end up as some kind of parrot!) will rise again in her own way … at her own pace …
🚜 🔋,
A 🦜 ? Better than a degenerated 🍅 , so she at least could imitate and throw rant back at their 👻 👻 originators….😜 (but DrL 🥼 would mute such a 🦜 in his LwL chambers! )
One issue with 🐦🔥 is that she 😴 wildly too much, thus really experiences/lives” imaginary wanted and unwanted narratives in the residual LE, causing both F and T unrest even if it is just the Unconscious 🤔 expresses some repressed or inhibited desires, anxiety, fear (eg. when 👽, or/and Mom or/and childhood frenemies, monks/nuns, cathedral/temple ….appeared, they all symbolize something else in the psyche.)
My 😔 🥱 😪 come from frequent short or poor sleeps (+ the lumbar aching ).
The recovery pace is very slow since the steps were backward and forward, curved and circled…. What could jumping off the bridge or even cliff do to a pair of 🪽❓
Glad to see you 🚜 🌱 all over LwL farm🌾
❄️🦜,
Yeah, 🚜 has been out seeing to the 👨🌾 work lately. Gotta make sure the 🍅 stay 💐, no 😻 is 😭 , the 🌽 keeps 🌱, no more 🧱 get 🔥🔥, and no more 🥔 go 🤢
🌄
🚜 🪫,
👍, 🎩 🚜 🌽 🌱 ! 🎶
🚫 🧱 🔥 ⚔️ 🗿 🔥 & 🚫 🤢 🥔 🤺 🏵️ 🌱 🍅 , 👻 👻 👅 🧃 🍅 🌾 🥔 🍸 🍹, 🍴🧁 🍨 🍟 🥮 🥢, & 👀 🐦🔥 🪽 👀 ⏩️ 🔎 🐉 .
🦸🏻♂️ 👽 💠💭, ⛔️ 💠 🏞️.
🦜,
🚜🌱🌽 🧠💭🤔❓️❓️➡️ 🗿(stoic?), &🧃 ?
🍧🤫❓️🧠🧠🧠✋️🤢🥔🧁🧁🥷
“🦸🏻♂️ 👽 💠💭, ⛔️ 💠 🏞️”
👍❄️🏖➡️👽🔙⬆️⬆️🚀🌌🪐
🎩 🚜 🌱 🌽 🌱 ,
🗿➡️ stone, 🧃➡️ TJ
🤫 👁️ 🍨👏 🤢🥔 😊 , 🥷 🧁 🧁 🥷 ❗️
❄️ 👂 🚫 👀 🚀 (👽 🏘️), 🧠❓🚀 🔙 🚀⬆️ 🌌🪐❓🧠
👨🌾 🥂 🦜
❄️,
🗿✅️
🧃=TJ ➡️ 🚜🤯
👽🚀🪐 etc =
🚜🧠🔨 .
I don’t know how to say that part in pictures if my previous attempt was unsuccessful. Basically I wondered if your upcoming vacation would represent a chance to send the 🚀 back to 🪐. But I might have misread your previous – 💠 = ❔️
🧃=➡️ 🍅 🥤
👽🚀🪐 🟰 👽🚀⬆️🛸 🏡
💠➡️ Inside/in
My upcoming vacation has 0️⃣ to do with the 🚀 🔙to 🪐.
👽🚀 💠 🏘/🏙.
🦜 🥂🍻🚜
🚜🎩&❄️,
“🤫🍧👏🏻🥔🤢” etc 😂🤣😭👏🏻🙌🏻
T🍧
🚜🎩 😟 🍧🚄🏴🏰
🏰🌽🛤 🙈 🤢🥔 🥷✊️🍧🇫🇷🧁🧁🧁 ➡️➡️➡️ ❄️🦜❗️
🚨🚨🚨🚨
❓️🍧🚫 🧁🥷❓️
🚫🚫✔️ = 🚜🧊 🍹🍹🍹🍧
🍨 & tractor 🎩 🌽 🌱 & ,
✴️🟰 obviously; 😵💫 🟰 confused/frustrated
⌛️🟰long ago/time; 🔜 🟰 shortly;
⤵️ 🟰but; 🔀 🟰to do;
❌ 🚫⛔️🟰 no/not; 🤞👈🏿 🟰here; 👉 🟰there
🌞 🟰 a day; 🎴🟰 a night,
👤 🟰 shadow; 👁️🗨️ /🆔🟰 I;
👁️ 🟰 think/perceive/intuit;
⛓️💥 🟰 break free; 💦 🟰 Splash 💥 🟰 blast
📈 🟰 highly; 📉 🟰lowly
🍖 🤓🟰 doggy LO; ❔🤥 🟰white lies
🙇♂️/🙇🏻♀️ 🟰narcissist; 😤 🟰 arrogant; 😎 🟰 proud; 🪭🟰vanity/dandy; 👾 🟰 jealous
🧨 ⬆️ 🟰 LE fuel/high; 💣⬇️🟰 LE low
***********
✴️ 🍨 👏 🥰 🤢🥔 ⌛️; 🤢🥔 📈🙌 🍨⌛️; 🚫👾 👈🏿
🎩 🚜,
🆔👁️ 💠 🤢 🥔, 🍨 🚫🟰/❌ 🇫🇷 🧁, ➡️ 🤢 🥔 👁️ 🛟💎 & 💥 🔝 ❄️ 🐦🔥
💠 🏰 🏞️, 💂 💪 🍨,👅 💦 🧊 🍹 🍸 🥤 🍷 🥂 🍻 &
😘 🇫🇷 😘 !
➡️ 🟰 to/for
👍 🚜🎩 👁👁 ❄️🐦🔥 9️⃣5️⃣♾️
🤔 “9️⃣5️⃣♾️” ➡️ 9️⃣ ⏰ 5️⃣ 🔄 ❓
It meant 95% 👁=👁, but that’s enough to get it.
Several of the symbols (most in your last message, and the 95% in mine), aren’t transmitting properly on LwL, at least on my phone. Some also in your symbol language guide. Might be OK when I look on non-phone version.
9️⃣5️⃣%…
I’m aware that what 🆔 👀 here might be different from what’s on every 👻’s screen. I’ll elaborate when it comes to complicated situations.
✍️ ㊙️ (pictograms) ♻️ (reduce) 😬 & 😨 🫦 🔫…
You’ve 🌬 my curiosity now and I can’t help going back into words – is this basically how symbolic languages like yours were first derived – is the written character like a drawing of the thing? I know that’s pretty much how hyroglyphics work. It is amazing how much the emojis can express when one practises enough – decoding it is fun too, if hard work!
🎩 🌽—
To see if this could help you understand a bit — https://youtu.be/U0EySK4T2aY
We use 2000-3000 regularly (4️⃣ parts of our 🧠 all bulb under MRI, English speaker only, 1️⃣ part 💡 ).
Your 🧠 would keep developing if you try to learn pictorial language even after your retirement.
㊙️ — secret ㊗️ — wish/hope 🧧— luck
❄️ and 🚜,
I am so far behind in your emoji stories, I don’t think I can catch up! I hope I’m not missing some important message.
In my message I was just applauding your emoji skillz!
All I got was that 🍧 is not the same as 🇫🇷🧁 and that I shouldn’t get into 🧁 throwing fights with ninjas! And I’m not sure I got even that right…
Also 🚜, why the 😔 face in relation to 🚄🏴🏰 ?
🚜,
🍧💭🗣️➡️🚜: 🔁🔝-P
But 🤫🙊
🍨,
🫵 ✅! 🇫🇷 🧁 ❌🔀 🍨. ⚠️ 🥷🛠️🪓🧰… ⤴️🫵 🆘 🆔, 🫂 🤗
⤴️ / ⤵️ 🟰 but 👍 / but 👎
♟️🟰 anything
🔄/🔃 🟰 repeat/circle
🎱 / 🔮 🟰 uncertainty
🍧,
💠🏴🏰 = 🌑🧙♂️🧙♂️🧙♂️
🚜🎩🤔⚔️🛡👱♀️
⤴️❄️🐦🔥🔉🍧🛡🏰💂♂️💂♂️💂♂️
🪡🚜 (now) 😃😃😃🆒️
🚜 💕 “🍧💭🗣️➡️🚜:” ⤵️ P = ❔️
🚜,
Oh boy… ⚔️🛡️= ❓
🌑🧙🏼♀️🧙🏼♀️🧙🏼♀️ = 🥁🚶🏼♀️
🍧🚄🏴💠🌑🧙🏼♀️🧙🏼♀️🧙🏼♀️🧙🏼♀️
⤵️”🛡️🏰💂🏼♀️💂🏼♀️💂🏼♀️” = ❓
P = 🅾️
🔝 – P = ⚖️🧑🏼⚖️
❄️,
🆔🆘❄️👍🏼😄🤝🏼
👁️ ✍️,
⌛️, 🐉 ♦️ 💎 ⏳ 😳 😮 🗿 🧱 ↔️ 🐦🔥…⏳ 🐉 🧰 🧔 🪒 🫧 ↔️ 🐦🔥 …⏳ 🍨 👏 🐉…⏳🐉 🧰 🍨 🏹 🪒 🫧↗️ 🐦🔥; ⏳🐉 🔊 🤕 & 🐦🔥🪓 & 🐦🔥 🔥 🏹 🐉 …⌛️ 🐉 🔕 📉 🐍 … ⏳ 🐍 🔇 🐦🔥 … ⏳ 🐍 👏 🍨 & 🍨 🤝 🐍 … ⏳ 🐍 ⚡️ 😳 🔊🐦🔥🟰 🐍 👤… ⏳ 🐍 💤📉 🤢 🥔… ⏳🤢 🥔 🧰🤖 & 🇫🇷 🧁 🧁 🏹 🐦🔥🥷📉 🏵️🌱🍅… ⏳ 🍨 👏🤢🥔 & 🍨 😵 🆘 🏵️🌱🍅… 🎩 🚜 🌽 🌱 📈 🏵️🌱🍅↗️ 🦜 & ✅ 👍 🇫🇷 🧁 🧁
⌛️⏳ 🍨 👏 🐉 🐍🤢🥔, ⤴️ 🍨 👏 🥰🙌 🗣️ 🪝🔄 🎩 🚜 🌽 🧊 🍸 🍹 💦 🥤…. 🧠 🧐 ❓🤢🥔 👾 🎩 🌽, ✅ 💕 🇫🇷 🧁 & 🍨… ⚠️ 🍨 🚄 🧙♀️ 🏰 🧙➡️ 🎩 👨🌾 💂 🍨
⏰🔂, ⚠️☣️ 👁️ 🤢🥔 🏹💥 🥷 🔁 🏵️🌱🍅 🪓 💠 🌾🏞️
❄️ 😴 🔄 👽 🟰🪭🦚 🟰 🙇🕹️ 🐦🔥 ➡️ ❄️ 😠 😪 💔 …😴 💭
🆔 😞 😔 😮💨
👁️ ✍️,
⌛️, 🐉 ♦️ 💎 ⏳ 😳 😮 🗿 🧱 ↔️ 🐦🔥…⏳ 🐉 🧰 🧔 🍪 🍪 🪒 🫧 ↔️ 🐦🔥 …⏳ 🍨 👏 🐉…⏳🐉 🧰 🍨 🏹 🪒 🫧↗️ 🐦🔥; ⏳🐉 🔊 🤕 & 🐦🔥🪓 & 🐦🔥 🔥 🏹 🐉 …⌛️ 🐉 🔕 📉 🐍 … ⏳ 🐍 🔇 ↔️ 🤐 🐦🔥 … ⏳ 🐍 👏 🍨 ↔️ 🍨 🤝 🐍 … ⏳ 🐍 ⚡️ 😳 🔊🐦🔥🟰 🐍 👤… ⏳ 🐍 💤📉 🤢 🥔… ⏳🤢 🥔 🧰🤖 & 🇫🇷 🧁 🧁 🏹 🐦🔥& 📉 🐦🔥↘️ 🏵️🌱🍅… ⏳ 🍨 👏🤢🥔 & 🍨 😵 😵💫 🆘 🏵️🌱🍅… 🎩 🚜 🌽 🌱 📈 🏵️🌱🍅↗️ 🦜 & ✅ 💝 🇫🇷 🧁 🧁
⌛️⏳ 🍨 👏 🥰 🐉 🐍🤢🥔, ⤴️ 🍨 🙌 🥰 💟🪝🔄 🎩 🚜 🌽 🧊 🍸 🍹 💦 🥤…. 🧐 ❓🤢🥔 👾 🎩 🌽, ✅ 💝 🇫🇷 🧁 & 💟 🍨… ⚠️ ☣️🍨 🚄 🇬🇧 🧙♀️ 🏰 🧙, 🎩 🚜 👨🌾 🌽 💂 🍨💂!
⏰🔂, ⚠️☣️ 👁️ 🤢🥔 🏹💥 🥷 🔁 🐦🔥 🦜 🏵️🌱🍅 🪓 💠 🌾🏞️
❄️ 😴 🔄 👽 🟰🪭🦚 🅾️ 🟰 🙇🕹️ 🐦🔥 ➡️ ❄️ 😠 😪 💔 …😴 💭
🆔 😞 😔 😮💨
🍧
⚔️🛡️ = shield/protect
🥁🚶🏼♀️= ❓️(drum walk??)
” 🛡️🏰💂🏼♀️💂🏼♀️💂🏼♀️” = ❓”
= be shielded by the castle guards
You have totally flummoxed 🚜 with
“P = 🅾️
🔝 – P = ⚖️🧑🏼⚖️”
Some kind of balanced equation or case??
My original question was what did P stand for in the initial message?
🦜
❄️’s ✍️✍️✍️👍👍 – 🚜👁👁❄️97%!👏👏
⤵️ – 🧰 / 🏹 / ↗️ / 😵 / 😵💫 / 🔄 / 🔁 / 🔂 / 🙌 / ☣️ =❓️
🍧!
🧠🌊
“🔝 – P = ⚖️🧑🏼⚖️”
(Now) 🚜🎩💡💡💡👁👁🍧❗️❗️
🤫😉
🚜,
💡💡👏🏼🥳🤝🏼
And what is walking to the beat of the drum, which = 🌑🧙🏼♀️🧙🏼♀️🧙🏼♀️ ?
From 🦜🔥 I understood
🍧🗣️🪝🚜, although it was more like
🚜🗣️🍧🪝⚖️🧑🏼⚖️, 🍧🗣️🚜🚫👎🏼🪝😒🙄.
“P = 🅾️
🔝 – P = ⚖️🧑🏼⚖️”
🕰️🤞,❄️🧠 😶🌫️❓❓❓
⤵️/⤴️🟰 but 👎/but 👍
🧰 / 🏹 🟰use tool
↗️/↘️ 🟰 shoot up/down
😵 🟰 unknowingly
😵💫 🟰 confused
🔄 / 🔁 🟰 repeatedly/back & forth/circle
🔂🟰around clock, same issue
🙌 🟰 cheer up
☣️ 🟰 caution
🕰️ 🤞🟰 now
❄️ – 🍧💡🧩🧠❗️
🤔🤔🤔📤📦
“📤📦” =❓❓
🎮/🕹️/🖲️/🛂 = control
🆔 🧠 😶🌫️ 🍨’s 🔝-P = 🅾️ ⚖️ …
🍨,
⚖️🧑⚖️ ✅,
P= L🅾️❓❓, 🔝 = T🅾️ ❓❓
🅱️ = become/becoming
⚧️ = transform
♾️ = twisted circling
🌀 = frustrated
🤫 🤔 🤢 📴 🤢 🥔 🕰️ 👆🏼….
🍧,
“🚜🗣️🍧🪝⚖️🧑🏼⚖️, 🍧🗣️🚜🚫👎🏼🪝😒🙄.”
👍 🤮👿🚜🤦♂️🤦♂️ – 🚜🏫 🍧👩🏫 – 🚫🔁 🗣🪝⚖️👨⚖️🎣🔇🔇🔇
🎩 🚜,
🤫 🤫 👀 👁️⌚️ 👿 🤮 🔀 🧠 ♿️, 👉🪷 ☸️ 🕉️ 👈🏿 & 🦜 🧰 😈 🤮 👷🏻♀️💪 💎 🔛 🧠
⏰ ❄️ 🐌😩✂️📴/🫥👽🎭🔛🧖♂️〰️➿🔜👍 👍 🛌 😴
✍️🔁 ✍️,
🎩 🚜,
🤫 🤫 👀 👁️⌚️ 👿 🤮 🔀 🧠 ♿️, 👉🪷 ☸️ 🕉️ 👈🏿 & 🦜 🧰 😈 🤮 👷🏻♀️💪 💎 🔛 🧠 💬
⏰ ❄️ 🐌😩✂️📴👽🎭🔛🫥, ⏳〰️➿🔜 🦜 🎒👍 👍 🛌 😴
🎒 = have
💎 = Stoic
〰️/➿ == gradually / back and forth
🚜🏫🧑🏼🏫💯👏🏼
🕰️🤞🏻⚖️🪝🍧, ⚖️🍧🎢😬🍧😥🤔
🍧➡️⬅️🚜7️⃣🌚🌚🌚🌚🕖🤛🏼🌳🤜🏼🍻❓
🦜🔥, 🔝✅
🍨,
✅ 🔝- 🅾️ ⚖️, 🚫 🪝🧑⚖️ 🎣 ⤴️ ⚖️, 🍨 🧑🏼🏫 🧮 ✅👍
🥰 🙌 7️⃣ 🌑 🌑 🌑🌑 🕖 🚜 🤝 🫂 🍨 🏞️🫚🫖 🍮 🥂🤩🎈
✍️ 👻 👀 👻 👀 ☀️ 🌙 🌳 📝 🤫 🗣️ 🦜 🔥🍷 🥃 🧊 🍹🍸 &👻 👻 👻 👻…
🍧,
🚜🏡👨🌾⏫️🏴🏰 ☹️ & 7️⃣👨💻😥😞
⤴️🚜🗣↔️🍧😀👍💬
❔️ 🚜🧿💡🍧🧠💭🧠
🪡 🚜🔎🙏 🧮 🗝
🌚 = ❔️↔️ 🌕❔️
& ✅️❔️ 🤛🏼 & 🤜🏼 = 🅿️
If 🚜✖️ 😞 😞❕️
🍧
(To fill in ‘Typo’ bit ⬆️)
7 👨💻 😥 😞
🚜,
“7️⃣🧑🏼💻”➡️🚫👁️🍧➡️😢🆗
⤴️🤔🍧👁️🧑🏼⚕️L📖🥳8️⃣💠🏴🏰…🤔
But as for the rest of your message, you lost me… There was a lot of 🗣️and 🧠 but about what?
🌚=🌙
🤛🏼🌳🤜🏼= whomping willow
🚜💭💬
🧑🏼⚕️📖🥳🎱 ✅️
⤵️❔️🏢
🍧💠💠🏰🎱 🚫7?
The rest (the bit you couldn’t work out) please honestly just ignore! Sometimes 🚜👀😵💫❎️ 👓❕️
❄️🦜🔥 –
👆㊙️🤫!
📤📦 = think outside the box
(Sorry not enough time to think how to ’emote’ the below completely):
I didn’t understand your bit about 😈🤮 but I think we have crossed wires about that. That’s just a very old joke with 🍧 about when I messed up about 🪝⚖️👨⚖️.
🚜㊗️❄️🐦🔥🛏💤💤
🚜,
“❔🏢” You mean where it is?
🍧🚫🧠, 🤷🏼♀️
🍧💠🏰: 7️⃣, 8️⃣, 9️⃣…
🍧🏃🏼♀️🔄🏰, 🎭⛲🌉🚖🏙️🚇🎟️🌳🏃🏼♀️😅
🍮 & 🚜,
🦜 💭 💬 : 🚜 👱🏻♂️🪡 🔎 🆓 🕰️ (🚫 🧑🏻💻) 💠 7️⃣/8️⃣ /9️⃣ , & 🤝 🆙🍨 👀 @ 🍽️ ☕️ /🌳/🏰/🏛️/⛩️
🉑 (👌🆗 ): 🍨🉑🚶🏻♀️➡️ 🤜 🚜’s 🧑🏻💻 🤛, ⏳ 🤝 🆙 🚜 👀 @ ☕️ 🍽️
🍨 & 🚜 👨🌾 ➡️ 🧠 💬💭, 💪🪡🧑🍳🍳🆙 ➡️ 👀 🫂 👀 ‼️
❄️ 🤫 ㊙️ ✅
🎩 🌽: ✅ 🚮 ⌛️😈 🤮 💬💭 💤
🍨 🉑 ❔ 🚖 / 🚇/ 🚶🏻♀️➡️➡️ 🤜 🎩 🌽 🧑🏻💻🤛 🚶🏻♀️🍴🫚 🫖 🍲 🧆 @ 🕛〰️🕔❓
🦜🔥,
😂😂”🍧🤜🏼🧑🏼💻”
⤵️🆔🤔🤔🚫💡🇨🇳🔤🚫💡🔢🧮💠🔤🙈😂
💨😐💨
❔🌽💡”ling yi, san san…” etc❔
🍮🍅
Mais oui, naturellement!💡
Demain 🌞, 🌽👨🎓🇨🇳🧮🎓 ⏳️✍️🌽🗝!
🙏😊😉
🍅
Si=Shi?
🌽💭 ❔️🦜😵💫🇫🇷↔️🇬🇧💠🇨🇳❔️
🎩,
🉑🧰 🪖/⛑️ 🧮 4️⃣ #️⃣ #️⃣#️⃣ … ⏳🌽🛡️🤲 🤳 ✌️🍰 🍅
👁️🗨️ 🇬🇧 #️⃣: Liu Liu ➗ er =sanshisan ✖️ yi= sanshi➕san =sishisan ➖ shi=si✖️wu+shisan…
🉐❓🈶 🤩❗️
Shi 🟰 er + ba / er ✖️ wu
si 🟰 er + er / er ✖️ er
🇨🇳 🧰 🇬🇧 🔡 4️⃣ 🔉, 🚫 🇫🇷🔡.
ling, yi, er, san, si, wu, liu , qi, ba, jiu, shi
🌽 ✅ 👉“🦜😵💫🇫🇷↔️🇬🇧💠🇨🇳#️⃣❔️” 👆🏼🍅📝
🙏
🚜 & 🍨,
🤔💬, 🙇🙇🏻♀️ 🔢 💠 🇨🇳 👂 / 📻 & 🔡 … ⏳🌽 & 🍮 🉑 ✍️ 📱 🔢 💠 🔡 👈🏿 . 👁️🗨️ 🇺🇸 +ling yi… 🇬🇧 +san san; 🇫🇷 +si si… 🉐 😉 ❓
🆔 🏙️ #️⃣: yi + er yi er….
🧧👉 🌽 🍨 👈🏿
🙇♂️ 📖 👉 🈶 🈚️ 🉐 🈳 👈🏿
🦜,
“⏳🌽 & 🍮 🉑 ✍️…”
✅️👍🦜🧠🌟 🙏
🌽🧠 💬💬💬
⌚️❕️
🇨🇳 #️⃣ 👂ling, yi, er, san … shi. 🧮 wu + si = jiu/ er x si = ba… 🔎 🇬🇧 🔁📖 ↔️🇨🇳 … 🇫🇷 (+ si si)… 🇬🇧 (+ san san)… 🇺🇸 ☎️(+ ling yi)…
🍮 🉑 🗣️ ➡️ 👨🏻⚕️🅱️ 🤲 🌽 📧… ⏳ ㊙️✍️➡️ 🎩 🚜 …
🧧 🤩
zéro, un, deux, trois, quatre ↔️ ling, yi er san si
🛡️🧁 & 🌽 🛡️, 🗣️ ➡️ 👨🏻⚕️🅱️ 🤲 📧&📧… ⏳ ㊙️ 🍮 ✍️ ↔️ 🎩
🦜,
💡🤦🏼♀️🧠🌊🏄🏼♀️
👆🏼+👆🏼= ✌🏼
🥳🧮:
er✖️si=ba➗yi=Shiliu➗er=er+liu=liushisi➗ba =shi➖er=wushiliu➗qi🟰❓❓
💯 👂➡️ bai
🫂 🍨
er✖️si=ba➗yi=Shiliu➗er=er+liu=liushisi➗ba =shi➖er=wushiliu➗qi=yibai➖er 🟰 ❓❓
🌽 🧮,
shi 🟰 🔟🟰2️⃣✖️5️⃣❗️
san shi🟰3️⃣✖️🔟🟰❓
si shi si🟰 4️⃣✖️🔟➕4️⃣🟰5️⃣✖️🔟➖6️⃣🟰❓
ba shi qi 🟰9️⃣✖️🔟➖3️⃣🟰8️⃣✖️🔟➕7️⃣🟰❓
yi bai🟰💯
er bai🟰2️⃣✖️💯
si bai🟰4️⃣✖️💯
yi bai ➖er🟰9️⃣8️⃣
🧐✔️🇫🇷 🎨🖼️💠🏛️☎️: +san.san (ling)yi si.ling er.ling wu.san yi.qi
🧐 ✔️🇬🇧 🎨🖼️🏛️📞💠🧮 :
+sishisi ershi qishisan.ershisan bashier.jiushijiu 🟰
+si✖️shi ➕si —er✖️shi —san➕si.san➗yi.yi➕yi. si➖yi.—er✖️si. yi➕yi.san✖️san.wu➕si❗️
🛡️🧰 🪖 🦜 🧮 ➡️ 🧠 🌊🏄♂️ 🧠 , ⏳🔎 🗝️✌️📲🛡️
🌽 🤝🧁 👁️🗨️🉐 💡❔❓
🦜: 🎱🎱 ➡️👋🏼👋🏼
😄✌🏼
🌽🎩: 👏🏼🥳👩🏼🎓💠🇨🇳🔤😜
🗣️🧁if 🉑🚝💠🏙️💠qi, ba,…shi 👍🏼
🍹
✅️ “Liu Liu ➗ er =sanshisan ✖️ yi= sanshi➕san =sishisan ➖ shi=si✖️wu+shisa 🟰❓❓”
= 🕒🕒
✅️”er✖️si=ba➗yi=Shiliu➗er=er+liu=liushisi➗ba =shi➖er=wushiliu➗qi🟰❓❓”
= 🕗
😖🧊❔️🕗 =yibai-er(🕘🕗)❓️❓️
😖”+si✖️shi ➕si —er✖️shi —san➕si.san➗yi.yi➕yi. si➖yi.—er✖️si. yi➕yi.san✖️san.wu➕si❗️”
🍅🙏✂️👆🆙️🍕 … ❔️🕕🍕
🍧,
“🗣️🧁if 🉑🚝💠🏙️💠qi, ba,…shi 👍🏼”
✅️
❔️ 🍧 🧠✅️ 🇨🇳 🧮❔️❔️
🤪🤪
🫂 🧁 ✅ “🎱 /🎱🎱➡️👋🏼👋🏼✌🏼”
✍️ 🔃“✅️ “liushiLiu ➗ er =sanshisan ✖️ yi= sanshi➕san =sishisan ➖ shi=si✖️wu➕shisa 🟰↙️”
✅ 🕒🕒 🫂 🍹
✍️🔃“✅️”er✖️si=ba➗yi=shiliu➗er=er+liu=liushisi➗ba =shi➖er=wushiliu➗qi🟰”
✅🕗
😧! 🕘🎱=yibai➖er(🕘🕗)✅ 🙏
🇬🇧 🖼️ 💠🏛️ ☎️: si✖️shi ➕si ｜(ling)er✖️shi ｜san➕si｜san➗yi ｜yi➕yi｜ si➖yi｜er✖️si ｜ wu➖wu ｜san➖san ｜💯➖yibai
⌚️🍅 ❎ 💠 ✍️#️⃣…. 😧! ➡️ 🔎✍️🔁 ✍️❗️
🇫🇷 🧰 🧮 💠 ☎️#️⃣❗️
🦜 🧮 🧰 ➕➖✖️➗ & (#️⃣)
🉑 🍹 🪡 🔎 🕑 ⏳🍽️ 🚶🏻✌️ 👀 🤝 🍮 ❔
💪 📶 🧗 ❕❗️
☝️+ 💠 🇨🇳 🧮,
🕐0️⃣🕐 👂➡️ yibailingyi…. 🕐🕛🕘 yibailingjiu…. 🕐🕐🕛 yibaiyishi…. 🕐🕘🕐 yibaijiushiyi. 🧠 🎗️❕
🚫🤞 ⤴️ ⏳⏳, 🦜 🤲 #️⃣ 💠 🦜 🧮 ✌️🧊🍹 🍰 … ⏳ 🗣️ ㊙️🎙️, 🆗❔
🌽 &🦜,🍧💡🇨🇳🧮🤏🏼⤵️🚫⏳🧠🧠&🤯
🍧
🚜==🍧👆💯 🤯
⤴️ 😌😌 🆒️ ⌚️💡
🦜,
😎🆗️ 🚜😃🍅🤲 🧰🧮💯 🙏🙏🙏
🎩👨🎓💭👇
🏛✅️
Ling … bai ✅️
✖️➕️➖️➗️✅️
🕰🌽🪡 ⏳️⏳️⏳️🧠🧠🧠 …..
(🌽💭 🍧=🌽⬆️❕️)
…..🔼😌⌚️
🦜, Who is 🇬🇧🖼️? 📲(si si (ling)…)..?
🌽, 🤔❔❓🚜🚫=🍧
I think I may have to drop out of the emoji game now, before you think that I 🧠🏄🏼♀️ everything…
📲=💠
🖼🖼🖼📲 🏛= ❓place
🤞=here 🕰🤞= now
🍨 💪 🪜 📶 🪝 🧊 & ❄️🤞💠 🦜 🧮!
🪘 🍹 👨🎓 4️⃣ 🍅 🧮 👍 👍 🥁
🧊 👁🗨
Erbaisishisi➗Ershisi=?
Jiubaijiushijiu➗Yibaiyishiyi=?
Sibailingsan➖Sanbaijiushiwu=?
🇬🇧🖼️💡💡👍🏻🧁🧠#️⃣✅
💪🏻😊🕰️🤞🏻🥱😴
🌱 🌽 🍫🍮 ,
🕰️ 🤞 🧰 🇨🇳 🔢 ✌️🅿️👒 🔠 ➡️ yi/🅰️, er/🅱️…. ershiliu/💤, 🆗❔
💭 📦 ↘️
🔥🍊🍷 🆔 🟰 shisan.jiu.shier☝️, 💡 🉐❔
⏳⏳, 🉑 🧿 💡🧊❄️ 🍨 📲 ‘❓🐍 🅰️🅿️🅿️’… 👌❔
👁️🗨️ 💬 👻 ✖️👻 🕰️ 🤞🉐 💡 🦜 🧮 📲 🔡 & 🔢….🤨
🌱,
Erbaisishisi➗Ershisi= 🕙.🕐🕕❓️
Jiubaijiushijiu➗Yibaiyishiyi= 🕘❓️
Sibailingsan➖Sanbaijiushiwu= ➖️🕐🕘🕑❓️❓️
🌽,
Erbaisishisi➗Ershisi= 🕙.🕐🕕✅
Jiubaijiushijiu➗Yibaiyishiyi= 🕘✅
Sibailingsan➖Sanbaijiushiwu= ➖️🕐🕘🕑❎➖🕗
🌱 🧮,
Shi✖️💯= yi qian
Ershi✖️💯= er qian
Siqian➗babai= wu ✅
Jiuqianjiubaijiushijiu➗yiqianyibaiyishiyi= jiu ❕
🕰 🤞↔️ san✖️🌑shijiu✖️🌞erqianlingershiwu 🎉
🎗
🛟🇨🇳 🧮,
💯✖️💯= shi✖️Yiqian=Yi wan.
Siwan= erbai ✖️Erbai = Erqian✖️Ershi.
Bawanbaqianbabaibashi ➗erwanerqianerbaiershi = si
🎗
🍮 📲🏰 si✖️🌑qi, ba, jiu ✖️🌞 erqianlingershiwu 🎉
🎩,
Yiwanlingsibaibashiba➗Sibaíwushiliu =?
Thank you for the outpouring of kindness and great ideas in all your replies. I’ll respond to some of it properly eventually.
It is good that there are so many of us at the moment trying to become more resolute and move on, however this looks for us. Hat tips to all that are miles ahead of me on the journey and also those who are with me nearer the beginning stages of becoming more resolute. Good to have the ‘company’ 🎩
Sending all the positive vibes your way LaR 🤗.
LaR,
I would have responded but our LEs are dramatically different I believe and what may have worked for me probably wouldn’t work for you.
The death of my hope was met with a bottomless pit of anxiety and despair. This all because of LOs sweeping transfer to our warehouse next door. I would’ve liked to have just placed all my resentment and regret into the cedar chest, but it didn’t work out like that. My days were spent in great sorrow, with tears, madness and endless hours of writing sad poetry. With a touch of suicidal ideation and self loathing. Like punishing myself just because I could and for no good reason. It was a madness I wanted expelled but somehow felt drawn to. And all because it was “Her”. That damned beautiful, perfect godsend, LO.
I realize none of what I did was positive purposeful living strategies and if anything, just a lazy pathetic excuse for a middle aged twit like myself that can’t get their act together. If I did anything positive, then I suppose I did a lot of praying about things and asking for guidance in all the confusion and regret. Can you even believe that all happened over someone I never even really knew? I mean what insanity is all that about?? I wouldn’t have recommended my way for anyone then and I hardly want to recommend it now. The best advice then I can only impart is that if you’re going thru hell, just keep going through it.
Apologies for bringing the tone down a notch. You seem to be doing well and I’m glad to read about your effort. Keep up the good work my Friend. It sounds like you have your $#!+ together..
MJ,
I never mind you replying to my posts, even though things are so different for both of us. What matters is that the things you did were the ones that made sense to you, not anyone else.
“It sounds like you have your $#!+ together..”
I’m a master of illusion! I guess yes, on some levels I think I do too. On others, I have been swept around completely unknown territories, felt quite knocked off my feet, and behaved quite ‘outside of myself’. I think I just need to work mindfully through the current stage, however long it takes and see what comes next.
Hello all. Its been a while since I visited LwL. Wanted to do a check in now.
Though I am doing better in managing my LE on a day to day basis, this is fuelled by zero contact with LO, every now and then, I feel a little sad thinking about LO. I do get out of these lows fairly quickly, whereas earlier, these use to bog me down for days.
I wonder whether I will reach a stage where I do not get sad thinking about her, I am not there yet definitely. But I am encouraged by the fact that overall, I am coping with this whole LE better than before.
As Speedwagon said, need to hang in there and keep grinding away.
This is definitely the hardest thing I have done in my life, given the timespan of it all.
Thanks for listening.
Hi ABCD! It’s good to hear from you. To answer your question, I don’t feel sad when I think of my LO2. I marvel that limerence happened. If my LO2 pops up in my thoughts, I usually just think about the moment, like if it’s hiking-related I think something like “I should ask LO2 if there is a good preparatory hike before I take my kids on such-and-such big hike.” If/when I remember that I had limerence for LO2, I marvel that limerence is a thing and it seems surreal knowing that I went through it. It’s like looking at a natural spring. I’m looking at it, wondering how it happened, and kind of fascinated by it. I hope that makes sense.
You might not feel sad as time passes. Maybe one day, you might feel amused when LO enters your thoughts. Maybe proud of the way you handled it.
Have a wonderful day!
Thanks Lovisa! Yes, I am guessing it will take some time for me to get to your stage. Every LE is different, and all of us progress at our own pace. Cheers.
Dear ABCD,
It is so nice to hear from you again.
I always assume when I do not see posts that it is because people are feeling well. This seems (mostly) to be the case for you?
You mentioned sometimes feeling sad when you think of LO. maybe it would be useful to spend some time thinking about why you feel sad. What is the reason to feel that way. Is it because you feel that you lost something? Or something else, like a whole other imagined life? Or something else perhaps? Not necessary to reply to me, but I wondered whether you interrogating that feeling a little bit might provide clues about what is your continued path to recovery.
You and me have been for a while, ABCD. Recovery is painfully slow, isn’t it? It does seem like two steps forward, though, because you are thinking about her less and less. Personally, once that process starts, I think it can snow-ball and recovery can speed up, as long as one does not back-slide into rumination, ‘what ifs?’, pedestal-building of LO, etc. Certainly, although it has been slow and incremental, recovery from my LE has been steadfast. Maybe we all just need time – as well as continuous vigilance (like @Speedwagon says!).
In the meantime, I do think that some little personal treats or goals help counteract the negativity and Lovisa has outlined a few (mine are less healthy than hers :D)
Thanks Bewitched! Great to hear from you as well.
Previously, when I used to feel low, I seeked LO for gratification, and it mostly used to work, as I used to get a reciprocal response from her. Now, when I feel low, I do not seek LO, and I do not want to seek LO. I mean if we come f2f, sure I will say hello and make some talk, but I am not actively trying to seek her, which is a plus.
Having said that, whenever there is a trigger, like if someone talks about her, or if I “spot” her, I get a mild feeling of anxiety. This usually goes away after some time.
Maybe I am tired given the length of this, but overall, I am on the path to recovery.
Hope I am making some sense.
Dear ABCD,
You are indeed making sense. You’ve noticed a few things like “Maybe I am tired given the length of this, but overall, I am on the path to recovery.” Have you seen LaR’s post about tiredness? Besides tiredness, also the lack of validation and reciprocal response that you used to get from her seems like it is leading to some sadness (or anxiety). It must leave a void when you are (wisely) no longer seeking that. Validation must come from other things, my friend. And, of course, removal of any negativity that causes a need to self medicate. These are weighty subjects! But can be put off, I think, until one is ready for them. Gratitude for day-to-day improvements and distractions on harder days are a shorter term fix? This approach has worked for me.
Sending all my best.
Lovisa, your comment about your LE being “surreal” made me think about something I’ve been wanting to ask about for a while. Did you (or any other limerents here) seriously devalue your SO and/or relationship with them, and if it was actually a very good relationship, how did you view that specific behavior after the LE subsided? Were you able to explain that aspect to your SO? How did you mend your relationships? Are you able to eventually regain an appreciation or respect for your SO? Do you even remember the devaluing, or does it remain surreal?
Any insight would be appreciated!
Thank you so much Lovisa, and also to IMHO and Adam for your previous kind words and helpful advice.
Fabulous questions, Libra SO!
“ Did you (or any other limerents here) seriously devalue your SO and/or relationship with them?”
No. Absolutely not. I respect my husband very much.
Instead of devaluing my SO, I put a lot of effort into strengthening our relationship. I can tell you what actions I took if you want more details… relationship experts, improving my appearance, improving my delightful personality (lol).
“If it was actually a very good relationship, how did you view that specific behavior after the LE subsided? “
I think you are asking how I viewed devaluing my SO after the limerent fog lifted. Since I didn’t devalue my SO, I can’t really answer your question.
“ Were you able to explain that aspect to your SO?”
I think this is about devaluing so I can’t really contribute anything helpful.
“How did you mend your relationships?”
My SO and I did a lot of things. Both of us put effort into our connection: running together, playing games, talking, lots of bedroom activities, camping… We had some very difficult conversations. I don’t know if any specific thing did the trick. I think we got through it because both of us continued to work together with the common goal of strengthening our marriage.
“Are you able to eventually regain an appreciation or respect for your SO?”
I have always admired and respected my SO. Limerence didn’t change how I feel about my husband. Well… to be honest, I admire him even more because I am in awe of the way he handled my limerence.
“Do you even remember the devaluing, or does it remain surreal?”
I’m so sorry that I can’t help you. I didn’t devalue my husband. I’m trying to think of a current community member who devalued their spouse and MJ is the best that I can think of. His situation is very different than yours, but he will have perspectives on the devaluing of SO issue. *Shout out to MJ*
I think you would benefit from Marriage Helper. They talk about something called “rewriting history” which I think is what you are asking about when you say devaluing. It seems to be common when someone has an affair. Yes, there are couples who healed their marriage even after one of them devalued the other.
I am so sorry for what you are going through. I wasn’t clear if your husband cheated or if he just has limerence. You don’t have to share. Only share what you feel comfortable talking about.
Keep those questions coming! We want to support you!
Libra SO,
If you’d be interested in some answers to your questions from the pov of a male limerent in recovery, please say. I thought about commenting last week on the thread between you and the other SOs but did not want to butt in or appear to be self-justifying my LE when that wouldn’t have been my intention. That’s still how I feel, so I will only say more if it might genuinely be helpful.
My SO and I have weathered my LE – not without some difficulty (much of which I take the blame for), but we have.
HI LibraSO , yes, at the height of the ‘madness’ in 2 epsiodes, definitely, but we did go back to ‘normal’.
I suppose the problem is every relationships has it’s quirks and shortcomings, lean periods, and tough times, and it is easy to expand them into something monumental and important, rather than just the world not being 100% what we want it to be.
The first time, LE3, it was with small children, my father died which I struggled to process due to a difficult relationship with him, me questioning living in SOs home country, and eventually we took part in marriage counselling to resolve it. In retrospect i realize i was overblowing certain problems, but there were issues in our relationship. Suffice to say we recovered when the 2nd child arrived and was all fine.
On a recent relapse, after having discovered LwL, i was more aware of what I was doing and kept it mostly under control, and now as the limerence fades out we are more or less fine again. Again, there are underlying issues, we are good partners but more of an opposite attracts kind of situation, which is enriching but sometimes frustrating. I think we would still qualify as a ‘good to very-good’ relationship.
I never disclosed, which in some ways is selfish as it means I cant talk about the devaluing not really being about her or only about our relationship, but also there are some historical reasons that mean it is likely to go down very badly. It of course leaves scars. As far as possible I tried to deflect the reasoning onto the bigger issues I had around the time to try and imply it was for an ‘external’ reason, to alleviate any hurt i caused.
Some articles around this:
https://livingwithlimerence.com/whats-happened-to-my-spouse/
https://livingwithlimerence.com/case-study-should-i-wait-for-my-limerent-husband-to-come-to-his-senses/
„It’s like looking at a natural spring. I’m looking at it, wondering how it happened, and kind of fascinated by it. I hope that makes sense.“
I love that, Lovisa!
Thanks Mila!
I’m doing much better these days due to a lot of LC momentum and some other female relationships I am enjoying. But, I do still get hit with those moments of sadness where I wish LO and I had something. These moments last about half a day and usually occur after heavier work interactions with LO. I get about one a week. My main strategy is just to recognize I’m in a low and know that by tomorrow it is usually gone and to just push through it.
Hi Speedwagon. I am doing pretty much the same thing. Taking the sad feelings head on, and pushing through. Thankfully, these feelings are less intense than before. However, unlike you, my contact with LO is pretty much zero. Hope we see the light at the end of the tunnel soon.
Hi @ABCD
I was speaking with a therapist yesterday (yes, my limerent tendencies have landed me in therapy, where I need to be, because I cannot keep going with the pattern…I’m about as serial as it gets, I think!)
I told them I felt…more stable…now that I’m in NC. They asked me to explain that, so I did. Like you, no more days-long bouts of panic and desperation, physical symptoms abating, and just, feeling more grounded. But, then they asked me if I felt I could remain stable around LO. I said: absolutely not.
So, what I thought was interesting was that they said I had not “detached”. To them, “Detaching” is when you literally do not care anymore. I think it’s a bit different from the deterioration phase. It’s like, the one that comes after that. Once it happens, you could run into LO, you could show up somewhere where they are. You just don’t care. The most embarassing thing could happen right in front of LO’s eyes, and you would not care one bit. The LE is just…something that happened. You’re literally not attached to it anymore. When it’s happened to me, I’ve felt truly toughened, and very naturally protected, from LO.
I have had many LE’s, and I will say, that point DOES come. For me, it comes pretty quickly if I go total blackout NC. This means no interaction at all, avoiding triggers (for instance, avoiding going to a neighborhood that reminds me of LO, or even eating a candy that reminds me of LO)….all those triggers…I try to completely shut down…
Letting the grief flow. If I feel sad, I miss LO, I let myself miss them. But I do NOT act.
You can do this, and I believe you will detach completely. I know it’s very, very hard to imagine. But, you can do it, especially with the totality of your NC.
I’m no scientist but I’ll put it in layperson’s terms: At some point, your brain will literally change. And it will detach. Even if you wanted it to reattach, it might not be able to. Your LE will be something that happened to you, but it won’t be part of you. I feel that if you stay on your path, even though it’s hard, and thankless right now, you will get there. I have!
…I say this as I grapple with a new LE, so, I say this from the perspective of what happened in my “priors” :))
csc
If I may barge in a bit (although I have no right at all, skimming posts and missing a lot at the moment), it’s a bit different for me. My LOs are still people I care about in a way, and I would still care if something embarrassing would happen in front of them, or if something bad happened to them. I‘m just not limerent any more.
Being limerent had to do with me alone, it wasn’t their fault, and they are still people I liked and who were a part of my life🤷🏻♀️
If my LO1 developed into an a..hole and I avoid him now as much as I can, that doesn’t have anything to do with limerence, at the most with having been limerently blind to his bad sides- still, he also has good sides, and there has been a time when we were close. I think I would never be completely dismissive of them or not care at all.
But that‘s me.
Me, too.
Thanks, Mila. In my case, LO and I were never friends, and we did not talk a lot.
My strategy when I see LO would look something like this – say hello and make some small talk if I get the chance, otherwise just move on. Earlier, if she exhibited cold behavior, this just gutted me. Now, I feel I would be more accepting if we do not speak during an event. Sure, it may still make me sad, but the intensity would be reduced. And at this stage, I really do not think I need validation from her.
Perhaps my LE has a long tail.
I realized I wasn’t a big help now😂
I‘m sure in many cases it’s a good idea to go NC and reach that state of mind. I guess I should just stay more on track here or shut up😂
@Mila
oops no no – I totally understand what you’re saying, too! I didn’t mean “you don’t care” as in…you don’t care at all about them, or, feel negative about them, wish them ill, etc. What I mean is, they have no effect on you. You can stay stable around them, because you are back to yourself, not hyper-aware or hyper-sensitive to every little thing. Sorry if I was unclear or sounded overly harsh!
But yes, for me the total blackout NC has been the only way to ever get there. Otherwise…I’ll just loop endlessly! waaaah
CSC,
Now my turn to say „no,no“😂😂
You weren’t overly harsh ,or unclear. We are all different and our LEs and LOs are different, I just wanted to throw in my two cents, namely that I haven’t experienced a complete detachment, they still have some kind of special place in my mind.
But! I think that’s easy if two of 3 LOs live at a distance now, and the last one is an a..hole😂😂😂
No, you all have to find your way how it works best, and if NC and detachment works, then that’s the way!
CSC,
Re your interpretation of your conversation with your therapist about ‘detachment’ …
I think I know what the therapist meant and especially with your interpretation: “once it happens, you could run into LO, you could show up somewhere where they are. You just don’t care.”
I think this will often take quite a long time after DOH. Bewitched has forewarned me of “the long tail”. I’d be interested to know if she thinks she (9ish months ahead of me with DOH if I read it right) has reached the true detachment stahe stage (as defined in your bit I quoted above).
I think deterioration and DOH can happen long before detachment does and are still a part of the healing. I have come to understand DOH as real Death of (feeling) Hope. I had the intellectual DOH where I knew it could/ would never happen a long while ago, but it isn’t (wasn’t) a true DOH until the heart catches up with the head. But I see DOH as a process, not a flick of a switch, and only once that process has run its course can detachment occur.
In short – even if you don’t feel detached, don’t underestimate or second-guess your progress.
I’ll respond properly to your reply to my fatigue post when I’m not so tired (lol!). There has been an overwhelming amount of stuff on LwL that I want to respond to, but no time. But I thought it might help to know that most of what you said does really resonate and help. Safe harbours, wrung out towels, prolonged overstimulation … you should really do something amazing with that way of words of yours! 🪶
Hi LaR,
How are you feeling?
I wanted to respond to this comment of yours as it relates to a post of mine this evening:
“I think this will often take quite a long time after DOH. Bewitched has forewarned me of “the long tail”. I’d be interested to know if she thinks she (9ish months ahead of me with DOH if I read it right) has reached the true detachment stahe stage (as defined in your bit I quoted above).”
I totally agree that DOH for me was way before detachment – I am getting to the latter slowly. Like you described, DOH was indeed an intellectual fact before it was a ‘real’ fact in my heart. That all meant that there was a very long tail between the intellectual DOH, a slow catching-up with DOH feelings, and then the beginnings of actual detachment. And if I had to date all of this, I would even put my progress 9 months ahead of yours (good work LaR😉).
I guess, if I had to caution about rate of recovery and trajectory, I would say that I might have had it easier with no friendship with LO and no daily contact with LO, unlike your situation. Your best option might be to let familiarity do its work to remove the mystique. I believe that you have already described this feeling coming over you and the need to embrace that, to prevent the dreaded backsliding. But certainly doing something for yourself, LaR, will help that too. Hope you can have a “duvet day” or two!
Hi Bewitched,
Thanks for checking in. I’m much the same – 😴, ‘being with’ that fact more than fighting it until next break, but still otherwise coping and functioning – and I will take that for now.
I’m not naive – it sucked a lot out of my reserves over a long time ‘managing’ (if I even was😂) the LE at such close quarters … with LO, SO and most of all myself. I would say (with the beauty now of a little hindsight) that I was in the eye of that storm for about 15 months. Is that similar to you? I know yours was longer but with a slow start. For me it feels like forever and like no time at all, at the same time! For these reasons I’m quite sanguine about the fact I’m tired, just allowing myself it. What is to be expected, really, when the stimulus that has fuelled me for that long is suddenly removed?
I am keeping up the effort level in other areas of my life as best I can (vs just having duvet days, but the odd bit of that when I can too!) and have increased effort in others like exercise and diet. It is challenging but I’m managing to balance all of it, just at a lower base level than normal for work, friends etc.
It’s also hard not to tell SO – normally my closest confidante for anything – what I’ve been/put myself through. She sees the tiredness obviously, and I can see she senses some differences in me since DOH – how would she not?! She has probably not put all the pieces together but I wouldn’t be surprised if she has inklings – if she does, she hasn’t raised them, so it is best left. I have plenty of plausible deniability with other ‘big things’ I’ve had going on that she does know about.
Re DOH –
My DOH received an unusual dose of (downward) rocket fuel. I had realised the friendship was unsustainable at that level alongside me being with SO. A conversation happened where I believe (without disclosure, but maybe ‘in all but name’) I passed that realisation on to LO. I wish I could explain more but it’s too much to risk putting the detail out – but I hope you get my drift. Since then there seems to have been purposeful (understood but not declared) action by both of us at the same time “kill hope while not killing friendship”. It’s what I intellectually wanted all along, but I wasn’t strong enough to fight the lure of the LE by myself. Now it seems she is very much ‘on script’ with me. Where the friendship goes needs time to figure out – I am not trying to push that in any particular direction for now, just seeing what happens.
Yes, I do think it is hard to kill hope and to shorten the tail with the LO in close proximity. But like you say, ‘familiarity removing the mystique’ could kind of accelerate it, so maybe that could cut both ways depending on the individual case? I do think that for long distance LEs, the limerence builds up and up because the L doesn’t see the LO to ‘release’ it, whereas with a day to day LO it is more like the steady but persistent dopamine limdrip I described before.
I had one moment with her last week where a penny dropped “I could easily get sucked back in … keep guard up!”. So I think I’m still in the embers stage of hope, not fully killed it. But past the worst danger.
Re ‘why this LO then?’ from your other post:
I believe it needs three ingredients:
1. Natutal attraction (even if not initially felt at 💥 level) to a cluster of physical and character traits they possess. I could say now what these were based on my first meeting with LO.
2. Triggering circumstances in life that lay the ground for an LE (eg something lacking, grief, stress, circumstance change). In my case these ‘activated’ the bits from point 1 after a delay; for others 1 and 2 may happen at same time
3. A degree of ‘provocation’ by the LO (may or may not be totally innocent on their part)
And then 💥, we’re off and it takes a life of its own.
Now, here’s the kicker question …. do points 1-3 allow you to rule LO in? And (this part is pushing it!) rule out all other people you’ve met at different stages, who didn’t go on to become an LO? 🤣🤣
Re wanting to defend / protect him at work – would you get like that over other people? Depending on your answer, I wouldn’t get too worried that that’s a 🚩
I hope you have a lovely day ⬜️🧙♀️🪄
Hi LaR,
I just wanted to drop by to say that I have fantasised about having your “in all but name” disclosure happen to me as in my dreams I imagine this will give me the elusive closure but without all the risk we usually associate with disclosure. Perhaps thats just an illusion, its not going to lead to closure at all, just more questions. I guess time will tell whether this worked for you and then you can come back here and tell us 😉. I just think its an ideal way to shift gear from something that sure seemed mutual (at times) into something else, thats more sustainable? I wonder if you have thought about what you experienced in that “convo” with your LO in that way? I dont want to set you back because the whole mutual thing is a red herring (it doesnt matter cos its futile anyway). But I feel like in the late stages of limerent recovery, that narrative might be helpful?? Certainly one needs a bit of distance to frame it like that and not suffer. You sure are lucky that you seem to glimmer for ‘good’ LOs (I know that you also had a not so good one in the past). But the latest one was very honourable. This is something I can also state about mine. He had no choice.in many ways.
Also, to this:
“I would say (with the beauty now of a little hindsight) that I was in the eye of that storm for about 15 months. Is that similar to you”. If I had to estimate the length once it properly took off, I would say it was intense over a period of about 24 months, so a bit longer than you but very much inside Tennov’s 2-3 year timeframe. I have been coming out of it over the past 9 month (or so).
I got some great replies to my scribblings and questions of yesterday, including from you, LaR. I am digesting them all, like a slice of rich chocolate cake, delicious and energising. The urge to step back and view things from afar is strong right now, as is framing the story of this LE in my life.
Hi Bewitched,
I don’t think there’s any easy way to do an “in all but name” disclosure without it leading to mess. There has been a bit of treading on eggshells since but not too bad. I reckon mine leaked out over a while but this conversation rubber-stamped it. I’d love to know how she felt after it – whether relief, or disappointment … but of course 📣FUTILE!
In response to some other points you raised – mine was either mutual (not limerence but feelings – I think she is ‘other tribe’) or she just really really liked me as a friend. It is well worn LwL folklore that us guys can’t tell them apart. I’d wager there have been returned feelings there at times. 📣FUTILE!
I thought she’d let it go but she has warmed up a fair bit again now 😬 Pleasingly it hasn’t triggered me off though. I am enjoying being able to bump along as friends without feeling limerent. But I remain very watchful of my state of mind about her.
The ‘bad one’ of mine you refer to was an ex SO who pursued me. All the women who I would class as xLOs have been good eggs. LO2 was a bit of a rascal but that was part of the attraction. LO3 and 4 (latest) are basically carbon copies of each other in terms of their good personality traits. I fell hard for LO3 too but that was the one that got burned up in a crazy night of mutual disclosure! I have often considered if I ‘selected’ LO4 because of unfinished business with LO3. It was the cleanest, nicest break from an LE I could have had, but it left tantalising things not done!
I look forward to more replies and updates from you when you have time. It is helpful to unpick things with you. These LEs are a big deal. Work to understand their place in our lives is really worthwhile!
Hi Bewitched and LaR,
I think a good narrative in hindsight is as well or better than disclosure.
And it’s up to us to decide if we want to give it a negative or positive spin. It’s not that one or the other is true, both are true, and in the long run a positive spin like Bewitched has positive effects on us. At least that’s what I think, and I guess at some point I will get a positive spin on my last LE too, just not there yet….
With positive spin I also mean, we can believe that LO reciprocated or not. I also think, we know when the narrative veers too much into fantasy (or at least I think I know for myself).
Mila,
“And it’s up to us to decide if we want to give it a negative or positive spin. It’s not that one or the other is true, both are true, and in the long run a positive spin like Bewitched has positive effects on us.?
Here we go finally, lady … 👍 👍 ! Which side of the coin to look at more or focus on, in a short term or a long run (I deal with it 😏 (compelled/annoyed) 300 times everyday 😓 😓 🙇🏻♀️ ➡️ ➡️ (leading to) 😠 🔁 (rumination) 😊 ), is up to our choice and decision — within our control, which then negatively 📉 or positively 📈 affect our psychology and moods….
The other side of the coin is there, truthful or unchangeable, we could just leave it facing down in our hand or stare at it until it loses all its ⚫️ power…
🙏
Hi Snow,
and then there comes the point where we can put the coin into the treasure chest of our life and just occasionally look at it, knowing it’s there and was just one part of our multi-colored life.🙏🏻
“With positive spin I also mean, we can believe that LO reciprocated or not.“
WOW, you’re birthing 🔥 🍊 🍷’s phantom 🫥 now! 💐
Now do you understand a bit more how 🐦🔥 , since childhood, has subconsciously and then consciously (during LE) woven, evoked, enlivened such a ⚡️ 🫥 (in the form of monologues)? It’s not just a mood enhancer but a powerful creative muse that is fed by our internal energy fountain…. free and independent from any external sources, L🅾️ or not 🅾️…
We have a similar birthmark on the similar spot ‼️ 🫂
🔥 🍊 🍷, oui, oui, oui!!
🕰️ 🤞moi 🚶🏻♀️🛏️ 💤…
Hi Snow,
well, it’s only after a hefty dose of caffeine that I can have these insights, and while some part of me knows them to be true, some other part of me is untouched by them and rambled on with being attached, emotional, resentful etc
But I guess, the thing is to accept also this part of me since it’s simply a sign of being alive.
Have a good sleep Snow! Dream of golden Italy ☀️
😕🔁😊 ➡️ ❄️ 2️⃣❕
⏳⌛️⏳… 🅱️💃🏻👯♂️👯♀️👗
🔂 💤 🛌 🚶♀️
Thanks for the support, CSC. Yes, I do not think I could remain stable around LO, yet. This situation has not presented itself for some time. I am not seeking LO now, so that to me means I am making progress. Right now, I just wish I or LO move away so there is no chance of interaction, that would make me happy I think. Of course, this is not in my hand. LO and I were never friends, and we never really had any deep conversations. So in my case, whether LO and I can still be friends does not really arise.
Yes, so I hope I can get to the detach face that you have explained. That definitely smells like freedom.
Aspiration
Adah Isaacs Menken
Poor, impious Soul! that fixes its high hopes
In the dim distance, on a throne of clouds,
And from the morning’s mist would make the ropes
To draw it up amid acclaim of crowds—
Beware! That soaring path is lined with shrouds;
And he who braves it, though of sturdy breath,
May meet, half way, the avalanche and death!
O poor young Soul!—whose year-devouring glance
Fixes in ecstasy upon a star,
Whose feverish brilliance looks a part of earth,
Yet quivers where the feet of angels are,
And seems the future crown in realms afar—
Beware! A spark thou art, and dost but see
Thine own reflection in Eternity!
****
Every LO is the “star” and “thine own reflection”… 🐦🔥
My therapist said that what you can from limerence and an LE is about perceived needs or wants in your life. For instance, in my case, the reasons for attaching to my LO may be about things that I am not getting in my marriage and perceive (almost certainly incorrectly) I would get if I lived my fantasy life with LO. As an example, we are 2 working parents with a rascally 4-year-old son, so alot of convos with my wife are about logistics and scheduling and such, not exactly the type of fun and sexy talk we had when we were dating/engaged/without a child. Also, I feel she is often overly critical of me (to be fair, she is much more so to herself), but of course LO doesn’t criticize me in the same ways (b/c our lives are so less intertwined, and she knows so much less about me, and as a friend there is usually tolerance of criticism than from a spouse). And I know LO has faults; we had an argument last week and literally did not speak for 24 hours before things were patched up. But whereas I often focus on my wife’s overly critical nature, with LO I kind of just elide over those unpleasant facts. I’m not sure if I made any actual points here as opposed to just ranting, but thanks for hearing me out anyway!
Dear J,
“I’m not sure if I made any actual points here as opposed to just ranting”
Yes, yes, yes and yes! You are making perfect sense.
In order to combat that ‘new relationship energy’ that you feel around LO, why not imagine what it would be like to be running constant errands and trying to keep a household ticking over with her, while tired and stressed, maybe even with a sick kid and stressful week at work. Also, how it would feel when she started getting tired of your jokes, noticing your nose hairs, etc. Pardon my frankness, but I have found thoughts like these very helpful when recalibrating things in my own limerence episodes :). Also, instead of feeling down on your wife maybe focus on how LO ain’t all that? I think this will help you feel more positive in a helpful direction for recovery. Personally I liked to make little scenarios for myself – even if they weren’t strictly realistic or true – what was more important was that they were helpful to move me in the right direction. (I know its hard to stay on track!).
I am glad that you are getting to talk to therapist about this but I think that limerence can be about missing wider things than just romance? I think that it can be about validation, being ‘seen and heard’ in general, not just romantically. Or it could be about something completely different – a simple escape from life’s harsh realities? Thinking about these things with the help of a therapist might help?
I am so glad to hear from you, that you’re still plugging away at this, in such a positive direction.
You made a great point actually J. I watched a video from a marriage counselor where he stated that one of the most reoccurring signs or predictor of a marriage failing or at the best in constant conflict is unmet needs by one or both partners.
And like you stated in your post you realize that had sway on you in falling for your LO. Me too. 22 years married, at the time, we’d settled into a fairly “safe” routine in our marriage. We were focusing in on our two boys, one at the time ready to step out into the world as an adult. Which means it was easy for us to take each other for granted. Whether it was necessarily intentional on either of us’ part or subconsciously I can’t say.
LO filled that void by just being her. It’s not that she was ONLY grateful to me when we worked together and not anyone else. But that’s how I saw it. That gratitude and “thank you’s” I couldn’t get enough of. But instead of speaking about my unmet needs to my wife I just kept letting LO be that person to me. Because it was easier and more intoxicating coming from her than wagering whether or not talking to my wife about it would turn into a heated conflict. And that reluctance to do so turned into my wife suspicions that LO and I were having an affair. Which turned into even more heated and repeated conflicts. Avoiding one conflict led to something that to this day 4 years later is still somewhat unresolved.
Great insight, J! What are you going to do about it?
Hello all… I have what is to me a serious question, but the preamble is going to sound weirdly like showing off how lucky I am…. I will try to be brief…. and there is a question at the end.
Met LO at work about 18 months ago, Limerent about 4 or 5 months. She is happily married, no kids, mid thirties. I am married, happily, grown kids, I am mid sixties.
We have grown into a very close friendship, lots of texting, appropriately affectionate emojis, daily walks alone over lunch break, appropriate touches / occasional nice hugs ( I managed to teach her what types of hugs I like… full body, and NOT one of those pat-on-back hugs, more tight ), lovely conversations about things like her upbringing, life issues, politics, etc . I have gotten to know her very well
I have told her I love her, as a friend, which she accepts. I explained to her she gives me dopamine hits
We have set some helpful workplace boundaries ( no visits to her desk, etc )
I am indeed Limerent for my LO, and of course I CRAVE her company, and I feel almost constant pain without her ( except on the walks, or nice texting )…. at times it has been HORRIBLE ( it hurts even now, after a very nice walk and chat today and lovely texting )
I desire nothing romantic, but yes to being her friend and emotionally connected that way
But… I am managing, and I think getting better ( with the help of quite frequent hits from my drug , LO )
My serious question is… I want the LE pain to cease, but really really want to stay friends with her
Has anyone else her managed to drop the LE, and keep LO as a close friend? Or am just wishful thinking this?
Thanks in advance
Hi New_To_Limerence,
I have been here at LwL for a while and I think the consensus seems to be that its rare to maintain a close friendship while getting over limerence. For some folks it seems like once their limerent feelings fade to the point that they can behave normally around their LO, a few things happen – most often they lose interest in LO and have no longer a deep desire for close friendship (this has been described by several posters). Another outcome seems to be that the limerent realises that they can’t be friends, for their own sake and that recovery from the cravings and feelings of despair in the late stages of limerence drive them to forcibly disengage – also known as going No Contact (NC). By my reckoning, maybe a third of posters (or maybe more) are in this category. Also, some of the latter group have had serial limerences where previous ‘old’ LOs are now in the first category, with little or no daily relevance / friendship in the limerent’s life. This takes time, of course.
In the third group, several posters, myself included, opt for Low Contact (LC) because of circumstances – LO works with us so we can’t entirely disengage but we realise that we need to be vigilant about crossing boundaries which lead back to the despair and cravings (see above). By definition, this necessitates limiting the friendship and intimacy. So, all in all, friendship with an LO seems to be a rare ‘unicorn’ event, particularly close friendship, although Mila has one LO who she is close friends with, so maybe she can offer you hope.
I have to say that I think you are walking a very dangerous path with your LO, what you describe seems over the top even in a normal friendship. If I recall, your LO is a work colleague and I am pretty sure that most workplaces would be very disapproving of so many hugs, even if they are entirely innocent. I know that you have squared this off to some extent with your SO, so you have perhaps anticipated downsides of this limerent event. However another nightmare scenario could arise and possibly should be considered and pre-empted. The modern workplace can be quite unforgiving and imagine how it would be if LO wakes up one morning and decides you are harassing her (somehow). Even if you trust her completely and think it unlikely, I have read from other posters about their LO suddenly getting freaked out or going ‘cold’ on them. One of our most eminent posters, Limerent Emeritus has warned of LOs going “off script” and I think that its something that all people in the throes of limerence should consider because it is an ‘altered state’ and we are not behaving in any way normal around LO. That’s dangerous in the workplace from the point of view of reputations (yours and hers).
Your descriptions of what you are going through sound truly awful. Have you seen Dr L’s video about the 5 stages of limerence? The fourth stage is when it becomes so unbearable that the limerent decides to take control. Here is a link to the video, if you have not seen it, I think its well worth a look
https://youtu.be/WSvh9O44IB8?feature=shared
The good news is that there is a fifth stage known as ‘recovery’ in that video, which I have actually experienc3d myself, so I know that it’s true. But it takes a lot of work on one’s self to get there.
„, although Mila has one LO who she is close friends with, so maybe she can offer you hope.“
Ah, well. I mean, I’m still friends with my last LO. But I think the crux is with the term „close friend“. How do you/I define it? I think when I was still limerent , but already acknowledging that there won’t be any romantic thing happening, there was some future vision of a close friend who is my soulmate, with whom I have a special bond and share all my woes/thoughts etc etc.
But now that limerence is gone, I realize that my XLO isn’t quite the soulmate I believed when I was limerent.
He‘s still a decent guy and I like him very much, but this kind of close friendship isn’t possible with him.
And before I was able to come back to normal friendly feelings, I had to go through a phase of anger and grief.
Also, my case/XLO is somewhat special.
The reason why XLO cannot be a real close friend to me is paradoxically the reason why we can still be friends.
Another guy would have either gone „off script“, trying something more than friendship , or would have been confused and have had enough of me sometimes being clingy, sometimes angry etc.
He‘s a neurodivergent, very loyal and stubborn person, not attuned to other persons needs or moods, and that kind of saved the friendship, I guess. Although it also means we are not close friends, which was my initial goal when I was trying to end my limerence.
I guess what I also want to say is, it’s hard for me to believe one can get rid of limerence while maintaining that kind of flirty and close friendship you are describing.
I think our definition of friendship is somewhat skewered when limerent. A normal friendship isn’t that needy, heady stuff, as much as we would like to keep our conscience down by stating that it’s only friendship and nothing more.
Mila,
“I think our definition of friendship is somewhat skewered when limerent.”
I don’t normally venture into language correction for the ESL speakers, but this one actually is very funny. I think you want the word ‘skewed’. But the idea of our definition of friendship being ‘skewered’ is much more amusing!
Mila…
I really appreciate your input and experience with this
Yes, I am very aware my thoughts on this friendship are ‘confused’ by Limerence
I anticipate in the future… her leaving for a new job, and as most ( especially work place ) friendships evolve when distance happens… she will move on and it will fade… and I MAY suffer for a while . I think I will miss her a lot… I still miss the Foster daughter we lost ( I NOW think I was father /daughter Limerent for her too, as I look back on it )
I think, no…. I am sure… the Limerence is fading , the suffering when without her is diminishing, and the highs when with her seems a bit less high. Of course, this could be a lie I am telling myself, as I have a lot of access ( that sounds… not nice ) to her and so I can stay pretty stable
Or maybe Bewitched meant LO2?
I‘m friends with LO2, but not close. Close in the sense that every time we meet, we both enjoy it a lot and can talk about everything and feel as close and important for each other as possible. There’s a special meaning that each has for the other.
But we meet maybe twice a year now, since he left work, and there’s little contact in between. That doesn’t change the close feeling somehow, but still, we meet and speak rarely, and I think that’s the reason we can maintain friendship without veering into limerence again.
Yes Mila,
I did mean LO2. Thank you for spelling that out as I think it is quite unusual and I am happy that this is possible, in theory. I think it does still require a certain level of disengagement to make it possible though? And time. Always lots of time. 🙂
Hi Bewitched,
yes, I think it needed space and time, and I transferred to XLO at some point back then.
But I think we would have managed without transference too, because we really appreciate and respect each other outside of any romantic stuff.
But without LO2 being how he is, this wouldn’t have gone so well.
In my case, I have to say that all LOs had to help me, by keeping a distance, or by being respectful and consistent etc. But then, I wouldn’t have been limerent if they wouldn’t be persons like that, I guess.
Mila,
“all LOs had to help me, by keeping a distance, or by being respectful and consistent etc.”
Apologies if I’ve asked this before, but did you or LO2 disclose? I’m interested if he ‘just knew’ that being respectful and consistent (and I presume by this you mean reducing the limerence-triggers) was the right thing to do, or whether it needed disclosure.
I feel like both my LO and I now ‘know’ the need for more respectful distance and why, but without direct disclosure – and are trying to give that. I’m trying to just be OK with that new normal (friendly but more distantly and appropriately), and not take myself down the false “she must not like me” rumination loop. I am doing Ok with it but the loop sits in the back of my head.
You and I used to talk about how we hoped the friendships with your LO3 and my LO might head down similar paths. But I now think your LO2 (more than your LO3) is like my LO’s character type, so that’s more of a template to follow.
“But then, I wouldn’t have been limerent if they wouldn’t be persons like that, I guess.”
That’s true – it is not by fluke that our LOs are ‘selected’ as LOs. Helps you know what to watch for in future too!
Hi LaR,
no disclosure with LO2, but I think I leaked a lot and he knew, and I also knew that he- well, I’m not sure if he can be limerent, but I’m very very sure that he was very much attracted and interested, but he‘s much younger and I‘m married – he ruled anything happening out from the beginning, I’m sure. He was single and looking for someone, and he‘s quite pragmatic and principled there, he would never consider leading me into an affair, for my own good, and also he wasn’t looking for an affair but something serious with potential for family etc. But two or three times at late nights when a bit drunk he more or less told me that I‘m his absolute ideal and that his girlfriend had a problem with me for a reason etc.
But whenever there was danger in the air like being alone together etc, I felt him keeping a deliberate smiling distance. I think he put me on a pedestal and would rather go away than endangering my family, and I do respect him for that.
But he wasn’t the consistent one, (with that I meant XLO who was always consistent in contact and wanting to be friends) – LO2 was getting close and then pulling away like hell, very painful. I also , like you, had the „he must not like me“ moments, but now I know that’s not true.
Don’t forget that your LO might not be from the limerence tribe, so it’s much easier for her to be rational and accept some things (like your marriage, or that more distance is required) without suffering like we do. Which doesn’t mean she doesn’t care.
I had to laugh when you said your LO is like my LO2- you would have to see and get to know him, there‘s actually no one like him. He‘s an extrovert and sometimes quite exhausting person from another country, very quicksilvery, talented and extremely funny, sometimes not voluntarily. (you see, I do like him a lot).
He can be extremely egotistical and I don’t hope your LO is like that.
Funnily enough ‘extrovert’ and ‘exhausting’ do apply here too. ‘Egotistical’ – she can come across like that, but the more I know her, the more I see that’s a self-defence cover up (not lim-brain talking there but analysis of a lot of evidence).
All you have said about his behaviours around the limerence (maybe not from that tribe, but a lot of push-pull, occasional drunk texts – both of us at my end have been guilty of that – , but moralistic and wouldn’t contemplate trying to break a marriage) chime a lot too. The last one is probably quite crucial here.
So you see there are indeed similarities, whereas your LO3 sounds very different indeed. All I really meant was you and LO2 could be the better template (of the two) for me re navigating out of LE to friendship.
I keep successfully silencing that nagging voice (my rational side helps here) but then it pops back up from time to time and needs hitting back down again.
Hi LaR,
yes, they might have similarities!
The thing is, my LO2 left work and moved away. Not as far as XLO, but he‘s still not around. I don’t know how it might have panned out for this LE if he would have stayed.
But I guess at some point he still would have found a SO and I even would have managed to be at the same or similar stage as we are now, only much later, I‘m afraid.
Don’t you think that your LO , if she‘s like my LO2-extrovert, fun, with morals and determined- she will sooner or later find a SO, and that might change the situation significantly?
I might add that my LO2 got himself a SO while still being my colleague (the one he referred to once as having had a problem with us being friends), and it didn’t really end the LE. But she wasn’t the one for him and somehow I guessed as much anyway. His current SO is a much better fit and I can wholeheartedly wish them best of luck with their newly founded family.
Still, all that goodwill is much easier now that they are not in my day to day life….
By the way, I forgot about your remark about „skewered“😂of course I meant skewed!
Mila,
Yes, it is a whole other beast trying to navigate and renegotiate it while the LO is still around, but I’m working hard at it.
“Don’t you think that your LO … will sooner or later find a SO, and that might change the situation significantly?”
She should do, but she’s very picky and the extroversion is a bit of a front. I honestly hope she does, as I’d like her to be happy (I think it is progress for me that I can genuinely say that). An SO for her may hasten the end of the LE, but I do feel it really tailing off naturally now. I think it just ran its course. And despite the tiredness, issue that is a real relief.
I’m now more dealing with questions about how I got myself there, how real the ‘friendship’ was/is, and how to play my part in moving forward with that so it works for both people but without me getting back to feeling limerent for her … and wondering if that’s all even possible! Time will tell …
Hope you enjoy your weekend 😊
Hi LaR,
you definitely sound sobered up. Do you feel that your perception of your LO and the friendship you‘ve got has changed too, like in my case? I find it difficult to see which is the „real“ perspective. I guess reality is changeable too. I try to go with what seems to be best for me.
Mila,
There was a specific chat and its aftermath that caused a sobering up. Something changed on her side too – I think it links to what I said to you when we were recently discussing your LO2 and their character similarities.
So, like you, I have a good bank of pre-LE friendship years to draw on. I know what the ‘old’ friendship was like but don’t feel we can just pivot straight back to it. I can now see the LE version of the ‘friendship’ for what it was – an overblown rose-tinted vision with much more (for me) wrapped up in it than proper friendship. And I can see (as I always kind of could) that it wasn’t sustainable at that level in my circumstances. As black and white as it sounds, it had to reduce for my sanity and for mine and SO’s sake; I think LO knew that and we’ve both let a lot of air out of the tyres.
I feel some irritation now at LO’s worse sides (I can see them where before I couldn’t), but not all the time and not so much that they outweigh what I like in her. I wonder how that will evolvr.
I guess the question is – and maybe this chimes with you? – with the false limerent side of the friendship gone and deliberate removal of any ‘provocations’ – what is left? Is it just a close coworker thing? Or what version of friendship beyond that, if any, can we have that doesn’t drag me back to limerence? Can I ever be ‘detached’ enough to socialise LO with SO and thus make her a more authentic part of my real life, not a fantasy second life?
These are the sort of thorny questions I’m grappling with. And like I said to you many times about your LExit, I think they will take a while and some patience to figure out.
How are things with LO3 and you now?
Hi LaR,
that sounds all very familiar indeed. I still think that your LO not being a neurodivergent person who cannot cope with emotions like mine, might help to keep your friendship on a less superficial level than the level I’ve decided to keep mine on.
Things with LO3, well, I’m not sure. I had to cancel this dinner at our place with his family and it was a good thing too, because I really didn’t want to have that dinner, and I was able to develop friendlier feelings for him afterwards. Less contact seems to mean friendlier feelings from my side.
He sent me a birthday gift and I managed to appreciate it even though it showed again how he manages to just miss the point about what I like. We even had a pleasant longish phone chat (with his SO listening in since they were driving).
But now we are again back to the new awkward texting rhythm of him always initiating, me answering and him strangely not answering back, and me not doing anything until he initiates again.
While I don’t feel resentment any longer, I don’t feel like texting him either. We are not at a natural rhythm like I have with other friends.
We‘ll have a long business trip coming up in a couple of months with at least one week working together before here, and I‘m not sure how I want that to play out. Usually we spend a lot of time together on these trips. Sometimes I think that will be ok and sometimes I think I will try to reduce that. I guess I will cross that bridge when I come to it.
Maybe that’s also the way for you- just see where life is going. I mean, a close co-worker thing is still a great and rare thing to have, isn’t it? And maybe at some point you could just arrange SO and her to meet casually and see how you feel about it, it might show you that it’s ok, or not.
There’s no pressure now, maybe just take it slow and focus on your well-being.
Your LaR- pampering with duvets, Netflix, nature sounds like heaven to me…
I’ve been thinking about how to respond to your question, New_To_Limerence. I think Bewitched and Mila covered it well.
I’m so sorry, but you remind me of a drug addict who asks the question, “Can I enjoy all the benefits of my drug without the side effects?”
Of course you can’t.
But that isn’t the question you asked. Your question was,
“ Has anyone else here managed to drop the LE, and keep LO as a close friend? Or am I just wishful thinking this?”
Below, I shared the two people who have come closest to what you described (at least I think these two are the best examples to answer your question).
Lost in Space maintains a close relationship with his LO which he admits is an emotional affair, so I wouldn’t say that he “dropped the LE.” Mila continues to have contact with her past LOs. She seems to have “dropped the LE” but she doesn’t seem to have a “close friendship” with her previous LOs. I don’t think that she is getting dopamine highs from her previous LOs.
I think you will find that you can’t have both a close friendship and recovery from the LE. I think you are playing with fire.
I recognize that your LE is very unusual because you seem to have a father/daughter closeness at the core instead of potential mate closeness. Regardless of what is driving your impulses, your LO is still your drug of choice. She is a drug. Drugs have side effects.
thank you all for the pretty much “reality check” responses
I admit I am not the most clear headed judge of all this… and yes, I do want the drug without the side effects, please and thanks
I DO feel the Limerence , both highs and lows, is levelling out, at the same time our closeness as friends is strong. Given where she is from, it is highly likely that I am the first male she has gotten close to as a friend who is not a her spouse or a relative
Regarding the workplace… our HR would I think not care ( unless others seeing us complained ) and of course she could go ” off script” , which could get very messy
It is I am sure obvious to most of our coworkers that we are close, but we try to control some of the optics ( no desk visits, and meeting up in the lobby for our walks, etc ) but of course this just makes it more secret-y, and isnt I think fooling anyone at work
Absolutely NO potential mate desires…. much more father / daughter
All in all, I am planning to enjoy her company, wait out the LE pain, and with the likelihood that she will get another job in a year or so… so at that point… NC…. I will then really miss her, but kids grow up and move out ( yeah, she is not a kid, or even MY child, but I have already lost 1 ” daughter ” , and that hurt a lot )
Bewitched… thanks, I will watch that video, appreciated. I cannot imagine at all losing interest in LO or not wanting to be her friend
I do feel the LE is lessening , maybe due to our f/d friendship, and NO romantic desires… really for me the Glimmer was just seeing how special and wonderful she is!
You made your choice, New_To_Limerence. You are going into this with open eyes. Good luck! Please keep us posted. We can learn from your experiences. Your situation is unique and interesting.
By the way, you can change course at any time.
I am so glad you posted this. I am struggling with something similar. I am 72 and have a crush on a 66 year old gay neighbor. I told him right up front that I had a crush on him, and he was unfazed. He said we could still be friends.
I am finding that somewhat difficult, though, because of our differing definitions of what “friend” means. He is in a high-end, high-power job, and I am retired/disabled. I have way more free time on my hands and so it has not been working out very well.
He seems to like me fine and enjoys our time together. But it is unsatisfactory for me and I am trying to go No Contact. I do run into him periodically, however, and every time I see him, my resolve weakens.
So I can’t really answer your question; it seems like you have a more compatible and stable relationship with your LO than I do. I think I would love being able to go on walks and spend some time texting, as you do.
Please keep posting. I am so pleased to see someone in a similar situation, although I am not pleased about the pain we are going through.
Hello Norma
I have to say… yours sounds very painful, without the relief I can get
If I may may ask ( sorry to be blunt ) you are a female? He is a gay male?
How much time do you get to interact with him? Do you both enjoy the time?
Yes, I am a divorced woman who was not looking for a romance. I was devastated by a scorched-earth divorce about 20 years ago. I have not had any interest in dating. This crush on my neighbor came out of left field. We both seem to enjoy the time together, although I enjoy it more. I get the feeling that he wouldn’t be devastated without it, whereas I am more dependent.
The power imbalance is what makes me uneasy and is why I am trying to go NC.
I did want to add that my LO gives world-class hugs. He is tall and thin, and when he hugs me, it feels like he has a thousand ribs. I find this thrilling for some reason. Like hugging a really appealing skeleton.
I don’t think I have ever enjoyed hugging anyone more, including my own children.
N2L
I can feel you on the “daughter” vibes. A good man wants to protect and preside over the women in his life that he cares about. The rescue complex is …. well complex. I don’t remember if you mentioned the age difference with your LO but LO and I were about 15 years apart. Then throw in meeting and getting to know LO’s daughter and I might as well have just put my own head in the noose.
Me: “Damn that girl can text fast.” *smile*
LO: “She’s probably talking to her boyfriend?”
Me: “Boyfriend?”
LO: “Yes Adam, boyfriend.”
Me: “No offense to your parenting, since I never had a daughter, but I don’t like it.”
LO: “Adam it is normal for 15 year olds to have boyfriends and girlfriends.”
Me: “Yeah well I still don’t trust him.”
LO: “You’re worried?”
Me: “She may not be my blood daughter but I’ll be damned if I ain’t gonna treat her like she is.”
LO: “I wish her own father was as concerned about her life as you are.”
God that last one hit me in the feels. After that I just admitted defeat. I was hoping for a daughter both times my wife was pregnant. I love our boys despite wanting a daughter. And LO let me into her life enough that her daughter was the closest thing I had to my own. God to think that 15 year old little girl is now a 20 year old young lady …. *gets out the shotgun and salt rounds* Excuse me, I have somewhere to be.
Adam,
If I were a boy, I would not get my FIRST cptsd from Mom/parent, and got into a perpetual, futile surrogate-parent search from all previous crushes/LOs and this “celestial” LE
One always irrationally dreams/desires what one did/does not have, for me, a bosom sibling/friend or a secure and all-ear parent….
Snow…
“One always irrationally dreams/desires what one did/does not have, for me, a bosom sibling/friend or a secure and all-ear parent….”
that does not sound irrational to me at all. I too desire a bosom friendship, and I think almost everyone does
“I was hoping for a daughter both times my wife was pregnant. I love our boys despite wanting a daughter.”
@Adam,
It was way harder having a Daughter with all her moods, drama and attitude. I love her to death, but maaaan the girl knows exactly how to bite and how to make it hurt. I give her the credit and my Ex who probably instilled a lot of that in her.
My Daughter has a belief now she will never marry anyone because of the chaos her Mother and I got into with each other. I’m learning to accept things, in the way life is turning out for me but must also admit I am very sad and regretful about it..
If you think your one Son won’t forgive you for your LO wranglings, just imagine how your Daughter would have felt? (Magnify your Son’s resentment X 10 and maybe then some..)
Lol MJ. LO would say the same whenever I would say I wanted a daughter. “I raised two Adam no you don’t.” And Momma says “It’s a good thing we didn’t you’d spoil the hell out of her.” All three of you are probably right. Probably best we had two boys.
And you are probably right about that too. It seems as long as it is a lingering issue between us it will be for him too. He really mirrors his mother in emotions.
I know our situations in life are quite different but I can somewhat feel the same about regrets. I have more than just limerence to atone for. But I guess I’ll try to concentrate on the future and being better than past me.
Lovisa –
“You made your choice, New_To_Limerence. You are going into this with open eyes. Good luck! Please keep us posted. We can learn from your experiences. Your situation is unique and interesting.
By the way, you can change course at any time.” Yes, it is my course to steer
Yes, as far as I have read here, my situation seems pretty unique. Thirty year age age gap, NO romantic feelings, a great LO, close friends, etc
The common factor to what seems like everyone else here… the horrible painful cravings for her company and attention…. the awful feeling of having your mind taken over by the need for LO and … before I found out about Limerence about 2 months ago… I really thought I was actually losing my mind! It was scary
I TRY to use 3 simple rules
1) Your life is your OWN responsibility
2) Your inner voice is ALWAYS right ( at least mine is… but I don’t always listen )
3) RELAX
I use one or more of these in most situations
I use all 3 in this painful LE
That is a good list of personal standards. Please consider adding my personal standard to your list
Do the right thing no matter how you feel.
It gets me through tough moments.
I was thinking about your relationship with your LO. I keep thinking this is going to end painfully for you. I guess that most significant relationships end painfully and it would be a shame to miss out on closeness with another person just because you don’t want it to end painfully.
I really am cheering for you. It sounds like I’m not, but I am. I recognize that your LE is benefiting you and your LO in many ways. I’m just very concerned about the side effects. I’m concerned about both the side effects that you have already identified as well as the side effects that you don’t know about.
Neither of us can predict the future so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Lovisa… I really appreciate your viewpoints on this, thanks
Yes, I think we are both benefitting a lot… she knows about my love for her as a friend and that she is a dopamine hit for me… she seems to understand
Yes, even without limerence, losing her as a close, seeing all the time friend will hurt
And yes… side effects , especially the scary!! ones I dont know about yet 🙁
” Do the right thing no matter how you feel. ” Thanks, I will add this to the list.
Lovisa…
“I guess that most significant relationships end painfully and it would be a shame to miss out on closeness with another person just because you don’t want it to end painfully.”
Thanks for saying this
Exactly as I feel… the pain for me would be a small price for having had that wonderful close relationship with another person
We don’t get many of these in our lives
New here, fairly new to knowing what limerence is and accepting that I have it.
I do have an OCD diagnosis, have done a lot of research on OCD and have done therapy for OCD. I see a LOT in common between the two, but there are some key differences as well that make me think limerence is not quite a subset of OCD. For one thing, OCD obsessions are NEVER pleasant. But one of the hard parts for me is the interplay between OCD and limerence. For example, the sense of hyper-responsibility that comes with OCD, which kind of brings me to where I am now.
I am married and have come to realize I have been limerent for a married man. He is in charge of a program I volunteer with. He’s the one who initially invited me to volunteer. I’ve been working with him since 2022. The glimmer was pretty immediate and I’ve kind of been trying to work around the truth since then.
Recently it all came crashing down rather spectacularly. He made a (I think, real) leadership mistake that made me feel left out. But my reaction (without him knowing the full context) seemed disproportionate. Ultimately I told him I was quitting (because I knew in my heart what was really happening and I was tired of the anxiety trying to keep everyone else in the dark). I am talented at what I do and seemed to everyone to be super invested in it (haha!), so obviously he was wondering why it all came crashing down over a small oversight.
Even without researching I felt in my gut that I absolutely could not disclose all of what was going on with me. However, we kept kind of dancing around and wanting to talk it through, and trying to make it work (he was very distraught to the point of tears about my leaving), and in one of our calls I kind of “went there.” I said I thought I enjoyed being around my friend who uplifted me as much as anything, and I wanted to make sure I was volunteering for the right reasons. He said, “Ah. So that’s the root of it.” I think he had kind of sensed that already.
I didn’t say anything about love, romance, or anything like that, strictly using the word friend. I know that’s not the whole truth, and it has never been a real friendship, but have always wanted to be careful even as I’ve been selfish. Having read more on this site about disclosure, I am feeling absolutely sick about this whole thing. I would be devastated if I have jeopardized his marriage by disclosing too much. Maybe this deep concern is still the limerence talking, or maybe the OCD. Of course, it’s possible that I jeopardized the marriage well before this anyway by being very obviously more “dedicated” than other volunteers. There was never any explicitly romantic line crossed; we only talked about work-related topics, never flirted…but mentally/emotionally I was smitten. I understand now that “talking things through” is a very very bad idea and will stay away.
I feel so much shame and guilt. I always knew that letting it get to formal affair territory (whether emotional or physical) would nuke our lives, but now I’m realizing how powerful and damaging limerence alone can be.
@LimerentJane
Maybe I am misunderstanding here, but it sounds like you’re more concerned about his marriage than you are about yours.
The fact that you were honest about your situation (or, as honest as you felt you could be, to him!) is commendable. To me, it sounds like you have done nothing to jeopardize his marriage, because this: It is HIS marriage. And yes, while you are there, it is his choice what he does in his own marriage. If anyone is going to jeopardize his marriage, it is him, and whomever his spouse is. Those are the only two people who can jeopardize that marriage.
You, on the other hand, may be compromising your own marriage. And maybe that’s ok. Maybe it’s time. I don’t know, I don’t know your situation. But, I will say that limerence happens for a reason. If he asked you to volunteer, and to give your talents to a cause where you would be valued, that is huge. I would, from the outside, wonder….do you feel seen and valued, in your marriage?
And, do you feel your contributions, in your marriage, and to the world, are seen by your own spouse.
That would be what I would really wonder. It sounds like your LO can take care of himself. I would not worry you are at fault, just that you may have things in your own life to handle, that are your responsibility, and yours alone.
I make these observations with care, from my own life. I have similar issues. I am not perfect, I am a hugely dramatic, flailing, blatant limerent, at this moment. 🙂 These things can be hard to hear…and feel critical. I say these things to maybe help your guilt around what is happening to HIM, and help you see what you can do, within, to help your self.
With care, CSC
Thank you so much, CSC.
Well, that is not something one wants to hear, and yet I think you have a good point.
I do think to some extent this is where OCD overlaps a bit. OCD makes it all too easy to catastrophize and become convinced you’ve done something horribly, terribly wrong for real, when in reality you’ve only been dealing with thoughts. I’ve met this man’s wife (wonderful person) and have tried to form a friendship with her (though that hasn’t really panned out), so the worry is exacerbated. Throughout my limerence I had so much anxiety that she or others would suspect something untoward of me, and that’s been hard. You’d think that would have led me out of limerence sooner, but it’s sneaky how your mind tries to justify and cling to it because you need that “rise.”
But to your original point…yes. Certainly my own marriage is on my mind, but perhaps not yet enough. I’ve been absolutely sick thinking about how I’ve hurt my own husband as well. But I also have a comfort level with him that I think it will be OK. He knows all about my OCD and what that looks like. I haven’t disclosed the true nature of this situation to him–as far as I know he thinks I quit because I didn’t feel appreciated, which was partly true–and he’s been my rock through this. Even so, I think there’s been an element (prior to this breakdown) of taking him for granted and just trusting he’ll always be understanding and there, instead of investing in my marriage.
So, post breakdown I have really been trying to focus on my own family and I’ve been talking a LOT more with my husband, and that feels good. Hopefully I get to a place where I can forget about the limerence and feel like I’m being genuine and not just trying to compensate (although I will say that aspect is MUCH better now that I’ve faced reality). We have our issues…he’s a man of few words, and I have a strong need for affirmation and someone to talk to. I know full well that’s where my LO came in–he’s amazing in that way. But the need for affirmation and a (non-LO) friend to talk to is, at the end of the day, a me problem to work on. I realize that.
Thank you for your insight–you’ve helped me feel better. I am being over-responsible again, and I see lingering limerence in my concern for HIS marriage. Whew. What a mess. Grateful for what I’m learning, though.
CSC, you seem very wise, and so a question if you don’t mind based on your previous response:
Do you think I was correct to quit volunteering with/for LO altogether? Does that need to be a forever decision? I’m conflicted about whether or not I overreacted. It is clear to me (and him) that I need time away at the very least, and that is the plan I am sticking to for the foreseeable future.
Hi LimerentJane,
I’m not wise, just experienced. Many here are veterans of multiple limerences…not a club one wants to be a member of, but here we are! 🙂
Yes, I actually do think you were correct to do as much as you can to distance yourself. I am NOT an expert, but in trying to help myself, I know going no contact helps.
You will not help yourself by becoming friends with his wife. You will not help yourself by further exposure to a situation if it disregulates you and makes you doubt yourself. You are actually taking yourself FURTHER from yourself when you put yourself in the path of LO.
Yes, you need some time away. It sounds like you have a lot in your life that you enjoy – but this LE has blown you off course. You can get back to your good feelings, your trust in yourself, and your life.
I know to others cutting off your volunteering may seem drastic (I can hear them saying…you’re denying the world the good you can do, so you can recover from a crush?” but no…if you are limerent for this man, it is not a crush. It’s much, much more.
So, do not worry that you overreacted. Some part of you knew what it was doing. Trust that part. I think you knew it had gone too far, you were very at risk, and you did the right thing.
Be strong. Sometimes we slip up. Sometimes we go back, feeling like we are ok. It happens. If it does, just forgive yourself and try to pick back up again.
IDK if you are aware of Following Fenna on youtube? Her talks have been hugely helpful for me. Given that our situations are somewhat similar in tone — I’m putting a link here.
https://www.youtube.com/@followingfenna/videos
🙂 CSC
“LOVE IS NOT SOMETHING YOU DO, IT’S SOMETHING YOU ARE.”
– CARL JUNG-
https://youtu.be/BPJft_kcFkc?si=biG_95QaiEjFKWiP — No One Will Love You Until You Understand This — Carl Jung
After 📖 🪟, 🆔 still 🎒 (have) a 🖖 (long) 🛣️ 🛣️ to 🚶🏻♀️& 🧗🏻♀️…
I just ran into LO at Starbucks after a record SEVEN days of No Contact. He hugged me and I felt wonderful. I think I am addicted to the physical contact maybe more than the conversation. When he wraps his long skinny arms around me, I feel safe somehow, although of course this is an illusion. I don’t understand how or why he makes me feel safe when we don’t have that kind of relationship.
Hi Norma,
From what you say, after the 7 days, it sounds like you have kind of a new perspective forming…that it is the physical touch. You mentioned this twice (once, with your beautiful, eerie writing about how his ribs…I should not encourage you, but I realllly loved that image, fantastic writing and idea…)
Anyway – as I was saying…:) it sounds like NC (even if it was interrupted today by your unexpected meeting) has given you a different observation…that’s a gift!
I would encourage you to find other ways you might begin to meet this physical need. I know you have a health/mobility concern, but I wonder…might you consider going to some kind of social group, where you might get hugs?
I know, I know this sounds crazy. But I personally go to a group where people do give hugs. I go to a running group, and people there are very kind, accepting. I have met friends there who now hug me. For me, a need is also to see that my enthusiasm and energy resonate with others (my SO is very taciturn to the point I often wonder if he knows I’m there at all). And, my friends meet that need for me, it helps. Prior to that, I was getting a lot of social affirmation from…yes…LO. oops. 🙂
IDK where you are, or if you have faith, but…I grew up Unitarian. It’s a weird, very accepting Christian denomination. Many artists, many intellectuals. Or, a faith of your choice. Not necessarily for God. For…compassion and hugs. Just an idea.
Honestly tho, it could be anything. Volunteering, playing cards, gardening. Anything. I have found that people who volunteer and people who go to meetups are often grand, they have put their self-consciousness aside, and are really just there because…they need people too.
Just an idea. But, beyond that – more importantly. I’m focused on the positive about how much perspective you’ve gained in NC. lovely job, Norma. I think I understand how painful this has been for you, from my own life, which has also been very difficult in limerence.
I’d be interested to hear more about how you feel, once you get a chance to come down from what I’m sure was a very intense moment for you.
xo (and a big hug…i am a beanpole, so i hope it’d meet approval!) csc
CSC…
This is one of the most real and needed post I have read… full of great ideas!
I know this was not specifically aimed at me… but it was a lovely, and I think needed message for many of us. HUGS and so good for us!
I don’t think many ( most? ) of us humans get enough real, genuine physical contact… and a hug is SOOO awesome… I really only hug now my wife and kids ( and LO ) but the contact is so needed. It is WAY more important than people think it is….
As an aside… my SO has begun a wonderful new habit of giving me long affectionate hugs and a kiss when I come home , and before I go to bed ( I go much earlier than her, she likes to stay up late )… I love it!
Thanks NTL 🙂
Yeah, hugs are so important. Physical contact it’s important!
In our grown-up, modern world, we have created such isolation. In most of our routines, in the way we entertain ourselves…it is so easy to go without, and not even realize it’s happened. But it does take a toll.
Your SO sounds like she has got the right idea. I am glad you appreciate her efforts.
It’s funny, where I live, there is a guy who sets up in the subway with a sign that says “Free Hugs”. A tall, strong, gorgeous man, with gorgeous long dreadlocks and a big smile. He has a great, healthy energy. Like a sun. He will give incredible, going-back-to-mama-style hugs if anyone needs one. I don’t see him often, but when they are there, I usually make sure they get to do his work! 🙂 And I know he does it because he believes in that power. It’s a lovely gift to people, if they are willing to take a little step outside their comfort zone or routine.
Oops when ** when he is there, I usually make sure he gets to do his work**!
To CSC:
I do have a few girlfriends that I hug, but nothing is the same as the wonderful skeleton-hugs from LO. I have also been kissing him on the neck, which he is fine with. He is so tall, he has to bend down like a giraffe so I can reach.
The physical touch of LO is absolutely electrifying, and while I appreciate and love hugs from others, all I want is LO.
To all…
I do NOT know how you all cope with the pain of Limerence
I have a great LO, very close friends, almost daily walks and frequent nice texts… and I STILL am in pain without her presence.
Example… yesterday… great long lunch walk alone with her ( we always walk alone… we have talked about other joining us, neither of us want that! ) and nice messages throughout the work day. But… I took today off, and knew I would suffer through 3 days without her. At 10:15 last night… a message from her, a lovely video of her homeland. Oh my 🙂 🙂 🙂 !!! I had gone to bed in pain, and then!!! I was over the top in happiness, and could sleep in peace! She almost never messages after work, and so late. Bonus for me!
Today, more nice messages ( I thought she would not message me when I was off /at home )! Happiness!
And now, the pain starts again… 2 more days without her
Really, without having contact with LO, how do you all manage? How will I manage when she leaves ? 🙁 🙁 I hope the limerence is gone by then
I have a question for you. Does your LO understand how much pain you are in when she is absent?
I have toyed with telling my LO a little about limerence. I have never used the word with him; all he knows is that I have a raging crush on him.
Norma…
I don’t think so… I think it would distress her to know, and make her feel weird, or that its her fault in some way. I keep the pain to myself.
I have never used the word Limerence either with her… I don’t really need to find out about its obsessive nature.
Thank said, I have told her I crave / and am drawn to seek her company, and I told her I get dopamine hits from her, which she understood… she is FAR from stupid, so… who knows? We do not discuss it at all since I disclosed that info… I think neither of us want to open that box! We dont want to rock the boat!
Thank you for that response.
I don’t think I will say anything further to LO. He says he is flattered by my crush, but it also makes him a bit uncomfortable. He says he doesn’t want to hurt me, but of course that ship has sailed. I keep most of my pain to myself, although he has yelled at me a few times, which makes me burst into tears.
He always apologizes profusely. I don’t like to discuss these episodes in depth, because although I am glad he takes responsibility for his bad behavior, I don’t want him to know how profoundly it affects me.
He is an irritable person, which in a way is a good thing, since it helps me keep my distance somewhat. He is not someone that I trust unconditionally. He’s somewhat flaky. I gave him a painting to get repaired two years ago, and I still have not gotten it back. The painting was repaired months ago, but he has not gotten around to picking it up. I am not comfortable showing him the full extent of my displeasure.
I find myself walking on eggshells around him, which was similar to what I experienced in my marriage, which was why I was never interested in dating again anyway. It’s too exhausting, always having to be hyper-vigilant, worrying that some innocent comment will send the other person into a rage.
At least in a marriage, I would get that hot make-up sex. When LO apologizes, I have to be satisfied with that.
NTL,
The pain is literally like an addict trying to stay off drugs each time. Often for us limerents, the pain is proportionate to the pleasure. So in your case, where you are having so much nice time together, this is ramping up the pain when you can’t have more of it. Limerents who don’t indulge so much in the ‘pleasure’ side, or even go LC/NC, will eventually not get so much pain (after an initial withdrawal period of high pain). It is like you are restarting the ‘drug withdrawal’ every time you spend time with her (get the dopamine) and then spend time apart (don’t get it). It is kind of a conscious choice you’re making.
LaR
Thanks for the reply…. yes, this has managed to explain it pretty clearly for me, appreciated… what I needed to hear, but not what I wanted to hear!
I was / am kinda hoping the pretty frequent and very pleasant contact with her would just “level me out”…. but, and as you and some others have written… its all sunshine when with her, but almost immediately that goes away and I HURT ( for me its anxiety and heart ache and general nervous system firing on high ) when not in contact. I do very feel like it as you said “restarts ” each time ( but I am much more stable… no crying fits for a few weeks now! )
I am willing to endure this for the pleasure I get from being her close friend, and her company. I dont feel as horrible as I used to… as long as I know how long I need to suffer, such as over a weekend.
As you said, a conscious decision on my part … until I am forced into NC when she leaves in a year or so
NTL,
I’m sorry if it was harsh medicine. I’m glad to hear you are in a bit more of a stable place and feeling like you’re managing better.
I just say try and look after yourself in other ways than getting all your ‘medicine’ from her – think that one day you may/will need to cope without it, and it sounds like that would be a big shock to the system. The hugs from SO sound good. Keep trying to nurture yourself in other ways too.
@ntl and @LaR
To help myself understand my limerence in a different way, I read a book by an alcoholic. A woman around my age…she had destroyed her life with drinking.
In that book, she quoted another alcoholic. This person was asked what it was like to be an alcoholic. The answer: “As if there was not enough gin in all the world.”
And that is what it is to be limerent, past the euphoria stage. You are hooked, it will never be enough. No matter how much, or how little, it does not satisfy.
That is why it is so important to find a way out. It is not a livable situation. I am not saying there is only *one* way out. But, it is important to understand the danger— a need like that must be seen with the clearest eye possible, and taken very seriously.
CSC
CSC and LaR
thanks for your inputs. LaR, I saw it as not harsh, but reality, which I could use!
I am starting to play my guitar again, after months of not playing at all.
The SO hugs are awesome, and sooth my nerves.
CSC… as to the gin… I have felt often that there was ” not enough of my LO “, that I would greedily and stupidly want 24/7 access to her company!
And I am taking the LE and the danger, as you say, very seriously.
CSC and LaR
I just need to release some nerves on here.
I am not so much hurting today ( although I am in pain, yes, but I am adjusting to that ) as I feel my nervous system is running wild, and I cannot focus on anything. I feel a HUGE need for her presence, I NEED to talk to her and see her!
But I have to wait another day. I prefer not to think of her as a “drug” as that sounds bad, like she isnt a person, but MY GOD the craving!!! She disrupts my brain. 🙁
My sympathy to ALL of us who suffer though our own hell that is Limerence 🙁 🙁 🙁
As an aside, I think I have traced the Glimmer back to the first time I hugged her… she had just gotten some great news, I asked if I could hug her, and she said yes. I have always asked for hugs from her, never assumed it was ok to enter her personal space. At least she has told me I always asked.
@NTL
How are you? I hope you’re ok. I too am having some weird withdrawal or sadness or disregulation today. MY LO reached out to me and I was not expecting it, and he was much more…friendly than usual. He was (in his LO way) kind of asking for plans, but being so vague about it. I was euphoric just to get this text.
That was Friday, I did text him back (gah…) but nothing major. Just “well, here’s when I’m free.” kinda thing.
Aaaaaand of course, nothing since then. My therapist is going to kill me. I am in the emotional depths today. But, I know it’s my own doing.
L-a-R has posted about the Death of Hope. I am eagerly awaiting that day. I do understand the total pain of withdrawal, the craziness.
If you don’t want to see LO as a drug, it might make more sense to see that LO has the same effect as a drug. (I don’t like to see LO as a drug, either.) But, LO does the same thing to me that a drug would do, in terms of the withdrawal and the high. The only difference is, I am completely lucid and nobody knows I’m not “sober”. Even I don’t realize, I’m not sober.
A little attention from LO is enough to make the world turn rosy for me again, for possibilities to seem infinite and exciting, and for me to feel I have a fighting chance to be loved, to have FUN.
Of course, the flip side of that is a beast. To have all those feelings disappear, it is jarring. You are going through this. And you will come out the other side. Please don’t feel you have to hide your “nerves” here. You can always share! It helps people like me know we are not alone, and not crazy….we feel it too.
Even with my own slip-up I feel I am doing a bit better than I was (not curled up crying, just feeling pretty crummy). I will speak with the therapist this afternoon and can’t wait to hear what she’s got to say about my weakened resolve. I’m so ashamed. But not surprised. Sigh.
With care, CSC
Sorry to jump in:
1. Unwilling or willing to see, LO IS a walking drug, worse than all other kind chemical drug, because LO could walk to you (collective) and sweetly and seductively dally at you with an invisible string wrapped around your LE-infected neck.
2. Unless a forced NC, no Death of Hope would naturally come to one, unless you jump off a tall bridge or even a cliff.
3. Choosing to lingering and staying in the 💥 high of LE, then you knowingly and have to endures 💣 low of LE, It’s neuroscience of addiction — every coin has two sides!
4. When feeing LE pains, try some physical exercises of your choice until your body sweat… then physical/neural pains WILL reduce.
5. All the world’s sympathy or empathy would help little unless we take active, concrete actions to battle with LE infection!
I know what I’m talking about after having gone through all your have…, but you don’t have to listen to my harsh words.
🍀 🧧
CSC,
It’s hard not to reply to LO when they as a question, but maybe you are cooling down your replies and frequency(?) so heading in the right direction….
Or am I being too soft on you ? Someone else may come with some blunt tough response to your slip up.
Sounds like your therapist will take that role anyway. Let us know what they say, making notes for a friend 😉.
When I went full NC it was too hard, phasing was better.
My LO is a good LO though which makes it even much difficult. Today I’ve been suffering too, using thoughts of meeting my LO as mood repair instead of doing the difficult stuff in life.
Sigh !!
INFP 💃,
Just let you know that I have been suffering the similar stuff you’ve been going through… I ✅ 🉐!
But I no longer like to 🗣️ ✍️ 🤞, because it 📈 🤕. So I 🧘♀️ with 🤕 or 🏞️🚶🏻♀️ or 🏋️♀️ or 🃏 or 📚 or 👂 🎶 …
❄️
@Snowphoenix
Ha – I always know I can count on the Phoenix 🙂
You are very, very right. Though my slip-up is not a huge one…my LO really knows how to get me going. Or, he has no clue and I am just very very desperate (more likely).
I did make sure I had a very packed and social weekend doing things I managed to really enjoy myself. The silver lining of this LE is that I’ve really leaned into some female friendships, and I realize how much I have missed being part of group of close-knit women. I also did a new yoga arm balance today that I never thought I could achieve…so that was a win! I am not certain but I am hoping to find a place to get certified as a teacher, just to deepen my knowledge. 🙂
I feel very positive about many things in my life. I feel I am returning to the self I left behind, who never got to flourish. (the artist, the athlete, the friend, the daring, funny woman I love to be)….and, integrating aspects of myself I have always cast aside (very important inner work I did not know how to begin to do.)
But I am having trouble understanding I will not, no matter how much a stretch and transform…be able to put the jewel of LO into the center of my crown. He is not a real option. And yes, it’s probably true that even with the physical NC I’ve been doing (almost a month) I am not going to be able to do this if I keep allowing the text communication. I was hoping he would get the point with some very vague, just basic replies from me, but, what it’s doing, is making him seek me out sometimes, and then, of course, once he seeks, he pulls way back. And I’ve slid.
Snow, Snow! Your medicine is strong and appreciated. I know you are right. I’m a sorry addict, and I know I’m hard to take. I am trying…but I must try harder.
I value your honesty, and your experience. Thank you for it.
@imho
thank you. yeah, I will say you are likely giving me too much credit. I am very very good at making excuses…but my LO is unlike any boy I’ve ever known in that I often wonder if he is psychic. Like, he knows when I am about to turn completely away, when I am really, really feeling stronger. And boom, he pops up.
It is now at a point where I feel I may end up going to physically seek him out, in order to “stabilize” the scenario between us. I’m sure he feels very avoided at this point. But, I cannot….CANNOT…do that. I will have to steel myself to get through and keep going, let it die.
Actually, unlike you, full NC would be a lot easier for me. I am good at accepting things that feel final. But, I am not good at accepting things that are…uncertain, undefined. And my LO is very much in that category.
I won’t say you’re being too soft on me. You’ve understood, and I appreciate it. But, I also know I need to do a lot better here, if I am going to get to the next part of my existence…a better part.
🤖
🔮Uncertainty 🎱 🔥 💥 🔥 💥 LE‼️
We all have an option 👍 of ⛔️🫸 L🅾️’s 📱 💬. .. especially if two sides are ⛔️ in same 🏢.
Thanks CSC,
I’m sure you have that steel in you to do this !!
It’s funny Snow and I replied to you at the same time – real Ying and Yang responses !
@Snow, you are taxing my brain with all your emojis, but I got most of your message I think. Thanks ! 💃🏻
🤖,
🤖 🈶 2️⃣ 🛣️ ♻️/ ✂️ 📴 🎱 📲/💠 🫵 LE —
🥇: 🫸 🚮 L🅾️ 📱 #️⃣ 🚮 🟰 🪂〽️ ❗️
🥈: 🏃🏻♀️2️⃣ L🅾️ 🚶🏻♀️ & 🛫 🙎♂️👖📴 🟰 📉 2️⃣ 🪲/🐛❗️
🥉: ⏳ 🫵 🉑 👍😴 ⏭️ 2️⃣ 🫵 S🅾️ ❓
The Garden
Andrew Marvell
1621 –1678
How vainly men themselves amaze
To win the palm, the oak, or bays;
And their uncessant labors see
Crowned from some single herb or tree,
Whose short and narrow-vergèd shade
Does prudently their toils upbraid;
While all the flowers and trees do close
To weave the garlands of repose.
Fair Quiet, have I found thee here,
And Innocence, thy sister dear!
Mistaken long, I sought you then
In busy companies of men:
Your sacred plants, if here below,
Only among the plants will grow;
Society is all but rude,
To this delicious solitude.
No white nor red was ever seen
So amorous as this lovely green;
Fond lovers, cruel as their flame,
Cut in these trees their mistress’ name.
Little, alas, they know or heed,
How far these beauties hers exceed!
Fair trees! wheresoe’er your barks I wound
No name shall but your own be found.
When we have run our passion’s heat,
Love hither makes his best retreat:
The gods who mortal beauty chase,
Still in a tree did end their race.
Apollo hunted Daphne so,
Only that she might laurel grow,
And Pan did after Syrinx speed,
Not as a nymph, but for a reed.
What wondrous life is this I lead!
Ripe apples drop about my head;
The luscious clusters of the vine
Upon my mouth do crush their wine;
The nectarine and curious peach
Into my hands themselves do reach;
Stumbling on melons as I pass,
Insnared with flowers, I fall on grass.
Meanwhile the mind, from pleasure less,
Withdraws into its happiness:
The mind, that ocean where each kind
Does straight its own resemblance find;
Yet it creates, transcending these,
Far other worlds, and other seas;
Annihilating all that’s made
To a green thought in a green shade.
Here at the fountain’s sliding foot,
Or at some fruit-tree’s mossy root,
Casting the body’s vest aside,
My soul into the boughs does glide:
There like a bird it sits and sings,
Then whets and combs its silver wings;
And, till prepared for longer flight,
Waves in its plumes the various light.
Such was that happy garden-state,
While man there walked without a mate:
After a place so pure and sweet,
What other help could yet be meet!
But ‘twas beyond a mortal’s share
To wander solitary there:
Two paradises ‘twere in one
To live in Paradise alone.
How well the skillful gard’ner drew
Of flowers and herbs this dial new;
Where from above the milder sun
Does through a fragrant zodiac run;
And, as it works, th’ industrious bee
Computes its time as well as we.
How could such sweet and wholesome hours
Be reckoned but with herbs and flowers!
Hello, everyone. I had a recent interaction with LO. It did not go well for me. I have been feeling sad since then. I am trying to accept the grief. Hope I feel better soon. I heard from somewhere that she may be moving away in some time. Hopefully, that will give me closure. Thanks for listening.
Hello ABCD
I have read many of your posts in the last month or so.
I have found this community to be very supportive and kind, as we each have our unique LE journeys.
I can certainly empathize with what you are experiencing. And as others will say… this a safe and accepting space to get some comfort and understanding.
I have found, in “real life” that I had no one I could talk to about this LE experience, and am so grateful I found this community 🙂
Thanks NTL. Yes, you are spot on. For me too, this community has been invaluable, as I have not been able to share my LE with anyone in real life, though I am fairly certain it may have leaked on its own.
Hi ABCD,
I’m sorry that you don’t feel good.
What kind of interaction was it, did you talk, did you feel awkward or was she cool? You don’t have to answer.
Also, what came to my mind first was,
what do you think you feel sad for?
Is it sad like „I miss her because it’s always nice to talk to her“ or „I miss the feeling she gave me“, or „I‘ll never touch this beautiful person“ or „I‘m sad because this wonderful person I thought she is doesn’t really exist and I miss that person“(something I experienced), or „she reminds me of the mess I created in my head“ or… so many possibilities.
You don’t have to answer, but maybe it helps to analyze a bit where this sadness comes from and it’s easier to find a remedy or to limit it?
Her moving away would help a lot and eventually end the limerence, I guess, at least it was the case for me two times, even though I still have contact with both.
I hug you digitally! You came such a long way here, and you are such a thoroughly nice , consistent warm-hearted presence here. You will get through these recurring sadnesses, I’m sure.
ABCD,
Sorry to hear the interaction has triggered off sad feelings. It must be really frustrating not to have got past this yet – but try not to beat yourself up, as it sounds like you continue to progress, just with bumps. Mila has a good point to try and work out what the sadness is saying.
What are your prospects for a longer NC period to try and get past it more and feel stronger if/when future interactions happen?
Thanks Lim-a-rant. Appreciate your support.
We are not interacting much these days, so there are fairly long periods of NC, followed by the occasional interaction. The length of NC periods have been ranging from 4 – 6 weeks. These periods do help me to become stronger mentally .
I guess I need to give it more time till the interactions do not bother me too much?
Hi ABCD,
Sorry to read your ups and downs recently. Maybe that is just it, limerence recovery is full of ups and downs. It just is.
This is based on my own and reading others experiences. It’s likely not a linear straight line on a chart to freedom. It’s more zig zaggy. 📈
Therefore, not to be hard on yourself that you feel down after an interaction, when the time before you were fine. Maybe don’t have expectations of how you think that you should be feeling at this stage, just let it be and pass.
Of course, easier said than done ! I know that for sure.
Maybe longer gaps between interactions can also increase the intensity when you do meet LO (for me it does, maybe not for you )
Best wishes
Hi @ABCD
I just wanted to chime in and say I’m so sorry you are feeling low. That seems natural…It happens to me, too. A kind of hollowing out. I am sure you will feel better in time. And, I have a feeling that if she moves, you will be able to thrive again, even if it is sad for a time.
I hope you’ll take good care of yourself for now. Even though it’s hard, it sounds like you are handling it really well, and just being easy with yourself during this time. I’m so sorry you feel sad.
csc
Thanks CSC. Yes, I am confident I will feel a lot better once LO moves. Till then, I just need to manage the situation. The LO interactions are not frequent, and this helps me in the overall process to recovery.
Thanks, Mila! To be honest, I was quite taken aback by how crappy I felt.
The interaction was okay by itself, we did talk to each other. We were supposed to meet one time earlier but did not meet, as SO did not want to go, then we met at this interaction.
Usually, this level of interaction would have taken me to cloud 9 earlier, but not now. Its like both the negative and positive interactions are making me sad. I am not sure, but LO seemed a little low, though she made the effort to come up and greet.
With regards to why I am sad, I will need to do some internal thinking. Perhaps, I am getting the withdrawal symptoms, as number of LO interactions is way down. Or perhaps, I am fatigued by the whole LE, and frustrated that it isn’t still over. It will take its time. Will think more about it and report back. I am a pretty analytical person, so my skills should help here!
”she reminds me of the mess I created in my head”
This could be true.
Thanks so much for the support, Mila! It means a lot.
Here’s to feeling better.
Hi ABCD,
if you feel it’s unnecessarily pulling you back into old thought patterns, don’t bother with analyzing. Sometimes it’s hard to tell what might help, and Imho made a very good point pointing out that healing is seldomly a straight line, there are ups and downs, forth and backward, and that it’s maybe best to let the downs pass through.
Here’s to feeling better too🥂
I just woke up from a horrible dream about LO. I don’t remember most of it, but it concerned his flaky behavior. The dream didn’t make me want to be with him more, it made me hate myself for wanting to be with him. Even though the dream was absurd, the flakiness part was spot-on.
I may have mentioned in another post that I gave him an oil painting two years ago to get repaired and he has not given it back yet. I remind him from time to time. He always apologizes but never does anything.
The flaky behavior is a good thing in the long run because it will help to drive me away.
Hi all. I made a comment somewhere else about possibly linking going NC with lent. Day 1 of planned withdrawal, LO contacted me asking if I wanted to set a time to catch up. I did reply and said for LO to get back to me with a time/date. A week later and he still hadn’t replied. This was the second time in a few weeks he had instigated contact with no follow through. First time I called him out on the flakiness, second time I let it go. He apologised the other day as he’s really busy so may be flaky over the next few weeks. I told him that I wouldn’t be in touch but if he wants to catch up, to let me know. Naturally I want him to be in touch but I also know it sets me back.
Its a funny thing because I was starting to get really sad after positive interactions. I think it was just the realisation that this wasn’t what I really wanted. But that i also don’t really want what I really want. And I want to be closer friends than we are but that’s not going to happen either.
After the most recent message about being busy, I have had more of a sense of calm. I won’t message him now because it’s unwanted but also I don’t really feel rejected either. His explanation was fair. He wanted to catch up but was sorry for being flaky due to busy-ness. I’d be selfish to contact now. So I’m hoping this is growth. I’m also still really trying to align my actions to my values. I do slip up though as thoughts and habits are still consuming.
This is a long process. Today’s post was helpful though.
Wishing you all peace with your situations x
„So I’m hoping this is growth.“
I think it is! It sounds really good, to my ears, it sounds like lining up with reality.
„ I think it was just the realisation that this wasn’t what I really wanted. But that I also don’t really want what I really want. And I want to be closer friends than we are but that’s not going to happen either.“
Realizations like that are signs of waking up, surging to the surface of the deep water and maybe soon air und sun? I think you are on a good way forward.
Wish you all the best!
Maybe I meant „aligning with reality“🤔
LO flakiness is a blessing in disguise, I think. If my LO was more responsive and attentive, the relationship would be more difficult in the long run. I bumped into him yesterday and he said he’d be in touch over the weekend, but I doubt that he will do so. I am used to him not following through. It used to really hurt me, but I realize this is just how he is, and it’s better this way.
I just got a new computer a few days ago, and told him I had to make multiple trips to the store to get it formatted and hooked up properly. He said he would have hooked it up for me. I said nothing, because I don’t believe that he would have followed through.
My LO’s keep turning out to be flakes. A previous one kept making promises he didn’t keep, like to visit or call me, and I’d be waiting and waiting for him. My current one keeps flaking out on me when I need his help with something tech-related….Trouble is he’s on the board and I deal with my church’s tech. Going through this right now. Very frustrating.
👁 — Your L🅾️ Is 🎣 🪝 you….
To Snowphoenix:
Thank you for that reply but I don’t understand the emojis. Could you please translate for me?
Norma,
My previous message was for whoopmp — her LO is fishing 🎣 and hooking 🪝 her affection.
Hi Whoomp. I think that you are doing very well on your path to recovery. Well done!
What?! Members of my gender being flakey?! Say it ain’t so! /sarcasm
I am starting over with No Contact after bumping into LO yesterday and getting flustered. I feel like I am on a hamster wheel, going nowhere.
A well-meaning friend pointed out that he is an “asshole” and that I should put him out of my mind.
I can’t explain to her why I am unable to do this. She doesn’t understand limerence, despite me trying to explain what I am experiencing.
Hi Norma. Yep, the hamster wheel analogy sounds familiar.
Devaluing LO has worked for some people. Personally, I have not had success with it, partly because I do not LO too well.
Hope you feel better soon!
To ABCD:
Thank you for your kind words. I do work on devaluing LO sometimes. It is effective for me, since he has lots of bad qualities, and has lost his temper with me several times for no reason. Even though his unkindness is a turn-off, he always apologizes profusely and promises to do better, even though I know he won’t. Then I end up feeling closer to him. So it’s a paradox.
Hi Norma. Yes, I totally get it. I was exposed to a number of hot – cold cycles from my LO. Like she would be all warm and fuzzy one moment, and cold in another moment. The hot part I could make out clearly. The cold part I perceived, so I am not even sure if it was true. Anyway, this conflicting behavior was enough to hook me in.
Hi Imho. Thanks for your message and support.
Yes, it could be that we interacted after a long time, so maybe that’s why there is a higher intensity to my sadness.
As you have said, I am not judging myself right now, just waiting for these crappy feelings to pass.
In my case, progress is definitely not linear, but its still progress – 2 steps forward and 1 step backward is still 1 step forward.
Hi New to Limerence. I can understand how you are feeling, as I have been there. You may have read the stages of limerence. After a while, things just start to deteriorate more and more.
Just wondering – are you able to have NC with your LO, even if it is for a short period. In my experience, NC is the best defense against limerence, as exposure to LE just triggers all those feelings that cause emotional turmoil. Hope you feel better soon!
ABCD…
“deteriorate”? I dont like the sound of that… in what way(s)?
NC is not possible ( same office, same floor, but opposite sides of the building. I tried it once, for 2 days… she was upset and confused.. I was in HELL
And, really… as I have stated in other posts… we are good friends and go for daily walks together… I cant give that up… even weighed against the suffering
Not until she leaves and NC is forced on me
Hi NTL. Sorry, perhaps a bad choice of word. What I meant was that in my case, in the initial stages, I used to get a lot of highs from LO interactions, like I was on cloud 9 for days, and I could see that LO was also very happy from those interactions, it was visible to me.
However, with time, I did not get the same highs from similar interactions with her. Maybe, this was because I realised that LO and I can never be together. Or, perhaps, my SO figured out what was going on, as LO used to say things to SO that showed she cared about me. Due to all this, the guilt factor also started kicking in for me.
Of course, I am just recounting my own LE experience. Everyone’s experience can be different.
To ABCD:
I know your reply was not meant for me, but I do feel the word “deteriorate” works very well in my situation.
Maybe not an all-purpose word, but very apt.
Hello,
Dr. L has quoted another writer who used this term of deterioration on an older blog.
https://livingwithlimerence.com/the-three-phases-of-limerence/
In Dr Ls /Dr Tom’s YouTube video on “5 phases”, he used the term ‘desperation’.
I recommend a watch of it for those in pain or stuck.
Imho,
I remember this post, it’s great and resonated a lot with me because of my first reciprocated LE.
Not in pain any more, but interesting to read it again nonetheless! Thanks!
Thanks Mila, yes it’s an interesting one, also resonated for my LE too.
I do not recommend the video though for you personally where you are now. Just my viewpoint of knowing you a bit.
Hi Imho,
I cannot watch the videos for some reason anyway, something in me refuses.
I read your other post about fantasizing about LO- me, I caught myself daydreaming about showing XLO that he cannot expect me to spend all my time on the work trip with me, by spending time with other very desirable or famous people 😂
Which is kind of Kindergarten and also a bit worrying since it shows I still have residues of resentment which is a residue of limerence…
On the other hand, yesterday he wrote a text about a serious problem in his family- of course I rallied round immediately to write and help (not like him when I have a problem..) and after a bit of back and forth I sent another info I dug out about the subject, and now he doesn’t reply, the exact way that seems to be his new texting behavior, which feels quite rude to me. So probably that’s why resentment lifted its ugly head again..
I guess the upcoming business trip in a few months will be the final station of our closer relationship, or maybe we can find together again on another level by seeing each other face to face for a while.
But I‘m not sure I want to. My motivation to keep this friendship waxes and wanes like the moon, to be a bit poetic.
It’s good that you recognize immediately that you use LO as mood regulation. Took me a long time to see that.
ABCD…
Ahhh, I see… you mean the effects ( highs ) level out, and I will need more frequent and stronger interactions with her to get the same pleasurable effects, or at the least, to temporarily stop the suffering.
Yeah, this does sound like an actual drug addict needing higher and higher doses… until there is no pleasure, the hit just stops the craving for a while… that sounds less than ideal
I do feel that even right this moment, after a pleasant messaging chat with her this morning… no high, but it was still nice
And ( pretty much always these days ) my nervous system seems to be not good, but that is my new normal
Well, we are going for a nice long walk alone together at lunch… thats always good!
Distractions:
https://youtube.com/shorts/9-gfdQeHSG0?si=hZgyoISna9QlhlOa =Al Brings Historical Icons to Life
https://youtube.com/shorts/4Gvda-DGw0o?si=fh8F1xkwuY7CwB6y — Rare images only meant for the 0.01%
https://youtube.com/shorts/1aBF3hoUk1A?si=Ko-QyI2T5Y2ZH1Ee — When Vivaldi Comes to Life in the Mall
U-Pick Orchards
Danusha Laméris
We used to pick cherries over the hill
where we paid to climb wooden ladders
into the bright haven above our heads, the fruit
dangling earthward. Dark, twinned bells
ringing in some good fortune just beyond
our sight. I have lived on earth long enough
to know good luck arrives only on its way
to someone else, for it must leave you to the miracle
of your own misfortune, lest you grow weary
of harvest, of cherries falling from the crown of sky
in mid-summer, of hours of idle. Let there be
a stone of suffering. Let the fruit taste of sweetness
and dust. Let grief split your heart so precisely
you must hold, somehow, a memory of cherries—
tart talismans of pleasure—in the rucksack
of your soul. Taut skin, sharp blessing.
Luminous, ordinary and acute.
*******
“I have always loved cherries and tend to eat them with abandon at a certain point in summer. But too many will make me feel sick. A fine line. As is everything to do with suffering and pleasure. One wounds us into the other. This poem invites such cleaving and blesses it.”
—Danusha Laméris
@Mila,
I’m replying down here.
Rallying around and helping others you care about is natural and brings more closeness. Caution is probably needed to not go overboard for XLO though. His appreciation may be lacking versus the effort put in.
I think it’s a bit female trait to some degree too.
My LO has some issue that he shared with me, which of course I want to fix in any small way! I have a few ideas and suggestions since he told me, but I’m sitting on them, because I know it just triggers my affection buttons and I need to distance myself mentally (to match the physical distance).
Your upcoming business trip will play out and maybe it will be a new dynamic, not like the old friendship, just something different.
“waxes and wanes like the moon” is indeed very poetic.
I don’t think I will go overboard here, I’m just reacting like it’s the decent thing to do. I still have an aversion to giving him warmth and affection, that’s why I try not to lack in help and everything that’s not emotional. I’ve a bit of a bad conscience about it, but I‘m not sure if it’s right to have it or if it’s my right not to give warmth when I don’t feel like it.
I don’t really understand his texting though. I mean, why send these long informational texts just to go silent on me after a short exchange? Maybe he realized he sent the seventh kissing Emoji without getting any back and that’s why he doesn’t reply…🙈
But , to clarify and before Snow shakes her head on me again:) , I’m not vexed by it. I don’t care very much, it’s only here that I reflect on it, and apart from catching myself in this daydream today, I don’t think very much of our texts or of him.
So, you are in contact with your LO? I sort of thought there was NC, but maybe I mixed it up. Are there any news if he will really leave your work environment?
🇩🇪 🔥 🍊🍷
❄️ 🫨❓🙀
🤫 ❄️ ㊙️ 🫨 🫂 🤗
Hi Snow!
I don‘t quite get it (I must say also I haven’t tried to decipher any of the Emoji posts), but my remark about you shaking your head was only joking, of course 🙂
I hope your back is much better and you can fly around again like a proper phoenix!🐦🔥
Mila,
Yes I sense the calm and balance from you which is excellent. Just your patterns of texting aren’t in sync. with each other.
“Maybe he realized he sent the seventh kissing Emoji without getting any back and that’s why he doesn’t reply” …. this made me giggle !
As for me, we had a lovely conversation and a few messages soon after. Last message was from me. This was many weeks ago now.
Yes, he will be leaving , exactly when I do not know as the situation is complicated. In a normal relationship I should check up on him soon and see how he is doing. But of course Im trying to distance because I am limerent for him still.
Sigh. Thanks for your support 😘
Hi Imho,
I‘m quite calm but not that balanced, I really don’t know if I’m behaving unfairly or confusing and he reacts on it, or if I‘m behaving ok.
But I’ve decided I can’t bother about it anymore too much. That may be unfair, but at the moment it’s „me first“.
Sometimes I get doubts if I’m being dismissive towards the only really loyal friend I‘ve got, or if I lie to myself about his level of not providing comfort, reassurance or communication for me when I need it.
But then, I somehow feel like that about him at the moment and cannot overcome it.
I try to be reasonably nice, though.
And of one thing I’m sure, the time of kissing Emojis for this guy is way in the past…
So something that comes to mind about your situation could suddenly be similar to mine- is it now worth building the foundations of a friendship that would keep after he left work, or is it better for you to let it all peter out? Probably best to let time and fate decide?
I wish you all the best Imho, und you get 7 😘😘😘😘😘😘😘from me!
Thanks Mila for my 7 😘’s. I’m blushing !
I always think any reasonable messaging between friends is good enough.
As adults it’s so easy to be busy and then contact reduces to nothing and then you drift as friends.
So, I say what you are doing is more than good enough , i.e. staying in friendly contact and showing interest and care in one another and arranging to meet from time to time.
Wishing you better balance !
Thanks for making me think about the future. This is the main multi-dollar question you have posed. 🤔… ?!
x
Imho,
looking back on the development of my LE/friendship I‘d say, don’t be too afraid of him leaving meaning the loss of him, or that you need to keep hold on him as not to lose him etc
It‘s what I did and led to limerence. It was unnecessary to cling to him , to deepen contact etc out of fear that I would lose him once he wasn’t here any more, it just led to trouble and the current imbalance.
In hindsight, just leaving it be and carrying on as usual would have been the right thing, we wouldn’t have lost contact anyway. And if we would have, then that’s what should have happened. When someone leaves, he doesn’t die, there’s always the possibility of reaching out and having a bit of contact or even meet, if both are inclined. No need to get into a last-chance-frenzy.
So, I’m actually sorry to have raised that question of staying friends, as I think it’s quite unnecessary. Time will tell! Apart from limerence, you know that you like each other and enjoy each others company, and I guess if you keep contact low because of limerence, it won’t „destroy“ anything. He‘ll always be in the world and you can even contact him in a couple of years and it will be fine…
❄️ 🫂 🙏 🔥 🍊 🍷,
❄️ 🃏↔️ 🃏🔥 🍊 🍷 ‼️
🐦🔥 🪽 🪽 🔺📈📈 🔺💪 👍 😊
🐦🔥⏳ ✈️ 🇮🇹 👀 🖼️ 🎨 🧖♂️🎭 💃
Going to Italy soon??
Have fun Snow! It’s stunning, the art, the buildings, the food… it’s the best!you will have the best of times!
Glad your back is better❤️
🔥 🍊 🍷,
✅ 🍴🍕🌑 🌑🌑🌑 🔟 〰️ 🔟9️⃣ 4️⃣ 🥉🕰️❗️
🔥 🍊 🍷,
❄️ 🧰 emojis 🗣️ 2️⃣ distract 👻 👻 👻 LE’s 😩😫😥😖 🧠 🧠 🧠 — L🅾️💬 🔁 L🅾️💬🔁….
🍷 👁️🗨️ 💡 🉐 (obtain) 💡 ❓
Hi Snow,
Do you mean you distract yourself or others with the Emojis from limerent brain circles ?
And do you ask if „in vino veritas“?😃
Sorry that I won’t start with the Emoji talk, it’s just too much energy used that is needed for other areas of my brain…
Mila,
“it’s just too much energy used that is needed for other areas …”
That’s the purpose of using emojis, not an entirely foreign language. Emojis have some commonality that everyone understands in his/her ways.
While decoding emojis, LE rumination or stuck sadness could be broken temporarily, since 🧠 is challenged in an intellectual activity. One can’t think and feel at the same time! (When you have time, give it try to see how your mood might change…)
For me, repeating in expressing what I’ve already spoken previously or some broken-records thoughts only strengthens my unwanted emotions and thoughts, which I do watch and stay with them until they leave…
That’s what I did when I actually felt sadness or depression, I need to do something “realistic/useful” to bring out my stuck 🧠 or even cheer me up for the time being. It has been working to alter my moods….
🫂
Ok, maybe I don’t feel attracted to that occupation because I’m not limerent any more..
anything that helps limerents is good!
on another note, I’m curious where you travel to- only Italy or other countries in Europe?
Mila,
Only 🕑 🌇s in 🇮🇹 — hometown of “DAVID” and Casanova… in 9️⃣ 🌞.
My 🇫🇷 👯♀️ 💔-S🅾️ may join me for tour.
Hi Snow,
exactly the two cities I haven’t been to and plan to visit later in the year!
Did you write your French Ex-SO will join you? 🤔
🍷,
Oui, Moi!
She’s still deciding for 🥈🏘⛔️🥇.
Snow,
I don’t get it. You have a female SO? And she cannot decide between the second city and what? A one way street? I have to admit that I’m too lazy to really try to decipher, as I , like Norma, don’t find the Emoji thing very interesting..
Mila,
I mentioned before in words that one of my 🇫🇷 👯♀️ who recently become a 💔-SO (to her Lim-hubby whom I also know)). so I invited her to join me to distract her mind… she possibly can only do the 2nd city, not the first one. She has to drive far from Avignon in 🇫🇷.
Please don’t trouble your mind with my emojis, they’re meant for specific 👻 audience, so just don’t click on them.
Hi Snow,
I didn’t try to decipher your other posts, I just meant that I will pester you to explain when you write to me in Emojis because I can’t be bothered to decipher them;)
I see! I‘m sorry for your friend, I hope she can come and feel better soon!
Distractions — Rare Images, realistic!
https://youtube.com/shorts/kYv7_zdf5AM?si=7rBEc5O9_ZtCtxS1
https://youtu.be/NL0L2muCsbU?si=tD73GFLOL3l2RTIn
https://youtube.com/shorts/JXxTt1vmFxg?si=yZjR7XZvRXpKn9rV
To Snow:
Speaking strictly for myself, the emojis are too difficult and are not an interesting distraction. Things that are too hard for me do not engage me and I just give up.
You posted a message that I thought was directed to me, and it had only two emojis. I couldn’t even tell what they are. They’re tiny and I don’t know how to enlarge them.
Puzzles are fun for those that are capable of solving. Not all of us are that smart.
Dear Norma,
1. A picture speaks a thousand words… which can express some inexpressive emotions. I use pictures whenever I can, even in reality.
2. Not every post here is meant for all LwL audience. So my emoji posts are aimed at specific, capable audience. Please just skip clicking on them (you’ll see emojis in “Name*” field. You and some others won’t miss anything said in emojis.
3. Emoji application is a creative way for ME to write, communicate and “teach”, so it works well to distract my LE mind. My brain needs to be challenged at any stage so it won’t shrink in size and it won’t often stuck in LE rumination, sadness, despair, etc. etc. etc.
4. I don’t believe I’ve ever posted a message to you that only had two emojis, I wouldn’t do that to you. “Reply” button only under your post is meant to replay to you. If a post is parallel to yours, then it’s a reply to the message above yours or the post that you also reply to.
5. In the future, I’ll use “Norma” to specify if my message is meant for you. Otherwise, please ignore them.
I hope I’ve made myself clear…
Feel better! 💐 🫂
To Snow: I envy your ability to be so creative. I myself cannot do it.
Hi Mila and IMHO. For me too, sometimes, I try to to think whether I should reach out to LO more often. That LO is picking up on me reaching out not so much, and behaving cold herself. As such, it is the old pattern of over analysing LE that I have been doing in the past. So far, I have not succumbed to this reaching out. This has its own risk, as both of us have SOs. I know I should not reach out more often, but the thoughts enter my mind, still.
I need to build a steely resolve, like you both.
Though I was low in the aftermath of the last LO interaction, during the interaction, I was behaving and engaging in a confident manner. This is something that I have aspired to do, rather than being like a deer caught in headlights, where I would get tongue tied.
This seems to be a good template. Till LO is here, try and have confident conversations. Hopefully, with time, this will lead to me not feeling very crappy afterwards.
ABCD,
why do you think you „should“ reach out? Would it be something you would „normally“ do if not limerent?
I don’t think you should anything. You got so far, and you don’t have obligations towards her. You behaved confident and polite, no? If you feel it would help you in your confident stance to go over to her next time instead of her coming over to you, then do that, but I wouldn’t initiate contact between meetings that occur anyway.
I don’t have a steely resolve, I think my battery/energy was simply empty. I got to the point where I had given so much energy and pain into this LE, there was no more to give, and XLO, being as he is, didn’t give me any fuel in the way of warmth or understanding.
For me, complaining and mulling over and seeing that my life is rich without him, helped over time. Steely resolve was never one of my abilities…
Thanks for the reponse, Mila.
Yeah, I do not have any intention to reaching out between meetings. These would reduce anyway once LO moves out. Its just that I get this temptation to reach out sometimes, like my mind is trying to get me to do this. I do not follow up on it.
I get what you mean by battery level 0. This LE fatigue is kicking in for me too. Thankfully, even in the wake of the low feeling since last interaction, I have been able to focus on work.
Hi ABCD,
Do you think that you are having a hard time accepting that whatever was going on between you and LO is over? Maybe that’s why your mind sometimes defaults to reaching out to her (to re-establish previous dynamics).
Maybe that is also why you sometimes feel sad. It could be grief because of what you feel you are losing.
Reframing this as gaining instead of losing, setting yourself free instead of remaining trapped, this is what worked for me (although it took a long time). I think it needs to be reinforced, this positive intention, over and over. Also, there is always the risk backsliding when we see LO so it really is an act of will…
I am going to see my LO again in the next while and I am very curious about how I am going to react. Already I feel that something has changed because I am not overthinking it, like I normally would have, in the past.
He is still a cute guy, adorable and very appealling in his way, but I feel that I am over it and that he has (perhaps) no power to get inside my head anymore. I wish this for you too – I cant tell you the peace that it brings. Maybe try not viewing this as a loss? I know its easier said than done (goodness knows I am a slow learner).
Hi all,
Random scribbling alert!
I have been doing a bit of self-reflection and wondering if there are any life lessons out the other side of this LE. I do think that perhaps I have managed to get some priorities im my life sorted, what I want to spend my time doing (and very importantly, what I dont, which for me was more important due to work stress). I guess ypu could also file that under #middleagelifegoals and perhaps LE just acted as an accelerant? (Maybe that reevaluation would have happened anyway without any LE involvement, in parallel somehow🤔). Either way, it was tick in the “plus” column for limerence, as it was clearly not all bad in my case.
I also brushed-up on personal goals, those are still going strong despite feeling like I am post-limerent. This, I am more sure about putting down to LE. Still, the inevitable losses in mid life (people, deaths, not just in my family) also reinforce that life is short and it really needs to be lived, no point in waiting about, if things need to change, change them. I have to say that my own changes were quite incremental (nothing too lim-brainy!).
On the more puzzling and curious side, I am still not too sure why *this* LO and what does this say about who I am and my future vulnerabilities. I have maintained, and still believe, that this is my one and only LE. Although it is full of contradictions. For instance, I feel recovered, but also cannot imagine another LO overtaking LO#1. Also, why do I still feel a slight impulse to protect him – in work settings, say – without having any real interest in befriending him? We were never friends, to my mind, in my fantasy it was always lovers or nothing. So I dont know why I still care about his wellbeing etc. Maybe I just glimmer for helpless types with lots of energy and no egotistical side.
I would be interested in others who are recovering, or feel that they are in the foothills of that, about whether they are drawing any lessons from their latest LE? Perhaps with a bit of distance, there can be lessons and growth? Shouting put to you, Mila, Snow, and others who feel green shoots of recovery?
@Bewitched
Since you have always been so cordial and thoughtful in your replies to me, I’ll try to take a stab at this..
I do not consider myself entirely recovered from LE but also know I am not in any way, in the awful place I once was. NC has dramatically reduced the desire but it did not happen because I wanted it to. Being a work situation, it happened by default and like your situation, her and I were never friends anyway. Like you, my LE was also riding on the high hope of being nothing but romantic and if it wasn’t, then what was the point? Platonic friendship might have been ok but I never really hoped for that or wanted it. All I saw in her eyes were oceans of eternal bliss. I think that proves just how off the rails I actually was about it.
“I am still not too sure why *this* LO and what does this say about who I am and my future vulnerabilities.”
I have said this exact thing to myself numerous times. I think it’s because certain people just have all those right attributes we’re looking for in the opposite sex. LO seemed to have it all. The right size, the right shape, the right height, the perfect length hair, the most beautiful eyes, the most perfect strut when she walked, her scent, her voice, her accent. Her dress style so hip and yet so elegant. Like so perfect to me at times, I wondered if she was even real. I never saw a more right and splendid perfect human being ever. Was she really THAT perfect? Of course its all subjective, but our limerent minds don’t care. I saw God’s masterpiece. Nothing or nobody else mattered..
I do feel I am more vulnerable to noticing younger looking blondes now with hair styled like LO, but none of them ever really match that perfection status that LO reached. I just don’t think it’s possible for myself to go there now. Or see someone in that same way. LO changed something within me. I don’t know if it was for better or for worse. What I do know for sure is that I never want it to happen like that again and especially in such anticlimactic fashion..
“I have maintained, and still believe, that this is my one and only LE. Although it is full of contradictions. For instance, I feel recovered, but also cannot imagine another LO overtaking LO#1.”
This has been a constant factor in my efforts (or lack of) with Lady Friend. Meeting her when I did was perfect timing because it happened when I was still struggling not working with or seeing LO regularly. She was like a perfect replacement, being that LO crushed all my hopes. LF is special to me because of that but also because she is real and a real friend and not some made-up ideal. However she brings drama with all she has going on in her life and with Dude. I’m not faulting her but yes she does bring some of that on herself and my bad timing for trying to interrupt it. I feel our friendship has increased since the disclosure. However that’s all it is and she’s pretty adamant about keeping it that way. Yet her eyes always keep saying something different. There’s still a lot of prolonged eye contact when we see each other and it drives me freaking crazy. Sometimes I think it’s because we’re both intrigued by the idea of each other but she’ll swear on a stack of Bibles she’s not. It’s maddening because her eyes are so convincing otherwise and I must be so desperate for the attention. Either that or she craves the validation because I’m gladly supplying it. Vague glimmer moments and all but no, I don’t think she could ever become LO#2. Just not feeling it the same.
It probably isn’t total recovery but again, this situation I’m in now is at least more real and not some made up fantasy. I get sad about it often but not like I was before in the LE. Often I think I’m disappointed this hasn’t turned into something more yet but I’m not sure it would even be a good thing if it did. She’s kind of shown me who she is throughout. I don’t think she’s a terrible person because of it. But I would like to instill some good growth in her and be an example of the type of guy she might possibly be able to see herself with.. I don’t know. It’s just a tbought.
I hope this is somewhat of an answer to your question. Let me know if it’s not..
🅱️-🧙♀️,
I wish I could tell you that I feel green shoots of recovery… but with 🐦🔥 ‘s residual embers, NO green shoots could sprout…. The worse is that the embers could still be poked by the “wrong” 🥢 and prolong their flickering in the dying breaths….
With clear logics, daily Stoic practice, physical workout, and intellectual activities (just invented a 🍅 course in the pedagogy of emojis…), my T brain is 💪 guiding my system okay enough. However, it doesn’t bring authentic, profound joys into my backbone, because F 🧠 is dragging a hundred thousand miles behind or even fights gallantly against T, with its own 💭 💥 or DNA 🔥 … What could a tiny 🦜 do?
👽 is out of sight and out of reach, but 🐦🔥 ‘s 🫥/👤 (the Phantom) lives 🔥 within. She cannot and does not want to kill 🫥; or she’d have NO 🪽 🪽 left and truly become a fragile 🍅 or even a 🤢🍅 …
I’ve been through most of stages you’ve gone through, with one difference — I did/do not have SO or TO to run to during deep/sleepless nights, like many of you here… Fulfilling myself or walking alone without a cane are probably beyond many F brains’ reach, except perhaps MJ (lucky to have abundant 💦😭💦), CMC, Anna, Norma, and the giant 🥔…
As I told Mila, 🐦🔥 does not want to express her inexpressible here anymore, like she ignorantly did last year. It not only brings the past to present — psychologically unhealthy, strengthens old, unwanted emotions from her ambivalent LE , but also possibly attracts more flying🗿or 🥔 and even 😮 become a walking🪞to who knows who…
Nonetheless, I continue learning a great deal from most of 👻 👻 ‘s chats here, despite each LE case is unique differing from mine; yet our shared LE symptoms and humanities are quite identical, only individual chosen treatment is vastly different, regardless who on earth a giant L🅾️ is or is not❗️
Unlike 🅱️-🧙, whose words always soothes LE suffering souls, I like to pour some bitter 🌿 🍵 or Stoic 🌶️ 🍶 . Occasionally, some 😵💫 LE heads seem to need a bucket of icy water to wake up and 🪜 🆙 on its own — 🦜 does that very often to her own 🧠 and knows its effects….
If a true 🌱 of recovery comes 🐌 along, I’ll 🗣️ you first! 🙏
🐦🔥🦜🙏✊️🏵🌱🍅❗️
🚫😫🍅🚫🤢🍅
🅱️-🧙 & 🚜
Growing up used to DOH in most of matters (under the 🔴 culture), a clear 👁️ of the ultimate futility in this LE has been almost constantly on my 🧠 since 6️⃣ years ago, which prevented 🪽 🪽towards a possibly disastrous direction….
💎 (oath) is kept but 💙 🩼 ♾️…. DOH may not 🔪 LE quickly; only 🛐 ⏳⌛️will do its work…
IMO, “Why this LO?” is still irrelevant in dealing and living with our LE in peace; there is no math or neurology back up 😍💥. It happens to gorillas and bears, as well as many human beings like myself. The💥 takes place at the first sight in 3-5 seconds, what could one tell anything about 🅾️⁉️ Without societal codes, cougars and tigress just call and 💓 ravish their 😍 “prey” as long as they are able…. This side of nature cannot be killed but somewhat controlled by human beings, if one tries hard enough. The price is huge — https://youtu.be/81Bmsl77C3g?si=LfUahyMGpl9WZodq
That’s why I am always against analyzing my own x🅾️s, let alone anyone else’s 🅾️. Also, 😍💥 could take place without slipping into to LE. So LE causes, explainable or inexplainable, are always within us limerents. In my case, cPTSD accompanied by Dad’s sudden death and Narc Mom’s drop-in. But my 💓 🥁🪘 💬 that rare, gigantic 😍💥, coming from mysterious familiarity and from unknowable DNA wiring and entanglement❓
Up to today, only a small portion of natural and humanistic phenomena in this world can be explained by science and logic. I think, truly accepting a certain amount of unknowables or mysticism would bring our short, limited life more ✌️ and Agape 💞that we seek.
Hi Bewitched,
will reply later- busy day, and have to think about it a bit, especially since I had an angry and disappointed reaction at XLos behavior again this morning that showed me again that it’s still the tip of the tail and not completely back on normal..
interesting though and will think about it. Have a good day, Bewitched!
B, you have two interesting questions!
1. What lessons to be gained from LEs?
Purposeful living and trying to find the learnings from my LEs have been at the core of my journey. I was really working towards and struggling with purposeful living before this latest LE, and I think it was another step on that path.
I give myself a hard time for not finding enough purpose yet, but maybe I should celebrate the small wins, as should you, B – enjoying the small moments more, trying to take more chances, being slightly more open to life and others, etc. But it’s a long road! I still find myself trying to distract myself with shiny ‘objects’. I think this is a very common struggle! Maybe some meditation would help to focus my thoughts and whole mindset…
2. “Why this LO?”
Ah, what a great occasion to indulge in some rumination on my xLOs! I’ve debated that here before and I think I’ve mostly said that they were my type (physically, clearly! But also character-wise).
But I might not have mentioned this: Both LOs were people I had some “beef” with (I exaggerate – some issues popped up that we had to sort through). Maybe I found that hot? That we had conflicting views, there were contentious issues, and I had to be tough with them, while at the same time being weak at the knees..? This sounds like one of the basic rom com plots, where the eventual couple hates each other at first. What a great story arc! (You know who else had a great arc? Noah!) Maybe I crave the excitement and drama.
But I don’t know, I think it was more about them being “my type”. I had already felt the glimmer before the issues emerged! Although the steady and confident way they behaved in those situations probably turned me on. Going through conflict together and then (hopefully) ending up in each other’s arms… Ah, how did I get here to Reverie Land??
” why *this* LO”
This is the last lingering annoying effect of limerence. Why her? Is she the special perfect angel that I think/thought she was? Probably not. Why can’t I see that? Whether it is a, to me rude, rebuttal that I feel the need to defend her vehemently with, that’s just a valid point in her character or devaluing the men in her life she chooses because none are deserving of her, I just can’t get past.
Sometimes now I am reminded of her and there is no real feeling of loss. The fight to maintain NC isn’t really a fight anymore. Some days I find my mind wandering off to her and then immediately thinking “don’t be so pathetic”.
I don’t know if there is an answer to “why that particular person”. And maybe that pondering is what keeps us on the leash. If I don’t understand something I seek to understand it. Whether it’s by my own research or asking someone I think is knowledgeable about what I am trying to understand. I hate leaving things unanswered. But perhaps much like “does God/fate/destiny/gods exist” it is not something we are meant to understand. All we can do is react to it as only a human can. If I saw her again would I run to her and hug her so tight she’d protest or would it be a cordial handshake and a “good to see you’? Ask me Monday and you will get one answer. Ask Tuesday and it will be another. Just depends on whether I am hungover or not. And I don’t mean a alcohol hangover.
oooh @Bewitched
What a salient scribble!
I feel you and I are very much on the same track here, in our thinking on “recovery”…not maybe going back, but to go forward, into a new phase of our lives, a new “section” of life, in a way…midlife.
I was asking myself the same question regarding my current LO, why is this one so, so, ridiculously bad, compared to the others (perhaps my others (two LO’s in the prior two years leading up to the past year of current LO) were merely opening the portal for this massive one to step through…heralds of this massively disruptive BIG LO)
I look at my LO and think…he is the exact age I was at, when my life, my grief, overcame me, and I locked myself, my heart, away. I was never the same after 30. I began a campaign of suppression against myself. I never saw it that way. I saw it as keeping myself safe from ever being hurt. But now, looking back, while the past almost 20 years have been by and large ok, they are not…what I had hoped for in my life.
If I had known myself better, known how to psychologically deal with myself, done some of the things I’m doing now (yoga, integrative therapy…etc) I would have been more brave, maybe.
But I didn’t know those things. So, I did my best.
Yes, I am drawing huge, huge learnings (I can’t call them lessons because that sounds somewhat punative to me). I am learning. I am learning so much about myself, about what it means to be alive, about the messiness of life…I am also learning about All The Things I have supressed…desires. Not physical, necessarily. These are desires of all sorts…
I have not read what others have said, yet, but, I will – I will say that for you, because your introspection sounds so much like my own — I would wonder…as I have…are you protective/loving to LO because somewhere within, you know he is not himself, but a part of you. A part of you that you yearn to explore, to give breat and energy to.
My LO is very free, very artistic. He is very funny and kind of outside of society in a way. Very comfortable with his outsider status, it seems. I always saw myself that way…when I was younger. But the past 20 or so years, I have tried, so hard, to become “part of society” to be “normal”. I have tried to please others…I see…when I feel affection for LO, protective urges, wanting him to thrive. It is myself I want to see thrive.
I am not ready to say goodbye to LO just yet, I am just…not. I am trying. But, in removing myself about 80% from the situation, I can see what he is to me, and what I am not, yet, to myself.
With great care – and with gratitude for your always insightful posts…
CSC
Hi Bewitched,
You asked about lessons from our latest LE. As I said earlier, I‘m still prone to get bouts of resentment and think that means I’m still not completely back to a „normal“ neutral view of XLO or even the whole LE.
So, you might want to ask me in six months, but at the moment, I would say that a lesson I learned is that I seem to wish my LOs to be persons who fulfill and validate me, that I desire them to be the one soulmate who understands me, and feel pain and disappointment when they are not- I think maybe I learned that such a person doesn’t exist.
I mean, my SO is as close to being such a soulmate as it’s possible, but of course he cannot fulfill my every need, and I don’t expect him to. But maybe there’s a part of me who still secretly believes in someone who fills some void inside of me that needs this kind of romantic fulfillment or validation.
So I invest glimmery people with that potential, unbeknownst to them, and then I feel pain if they prove once again that every person has ultimately only themselves to rely on for this kind of validation.
While I could say that my first two LEs gave me the insight that I am capable of seeing loveable in almost every human being (as opposed to LO1 who doesn’t even like more than very few people), that there are always different perspectives and I stopped judging people too quickly, and I got a feeling of my potential to love and appreciate being alive- while I got something positive out of them, I‘m not sure if my last LE equipped me with some positive outcome further than that I finally seem to be out of the whole limerence business.
I love the feeling of being alive and getting to know wonderful people who love me back that limerence gave me, but in this last LE I understand now that in that LE, it was an error of judgement- no wonderful person to love me back, I was all alone all the time, while in my first 2, I wasn’t, and I felt rejected and bad most of the time, as opposed to alive or loving, also it seemed to drain my energy while I got some energy out of my former LEs. But
I guess I’m just not ready yet to see something positive.
As to redefining personal goals, or living with purpose etc, nothing of that, if it happened in my life, would I write down to my LEs. I would write it down to my general course of life and development.
Wasn’t finished!
Bewitched, I think we had in the end quite different LEs and LOs.
I‘m glad that you got so much positive out of your LE.
Maybe because I already had at least 3 of them, I’m a bit more jaded and put the positive things in my life down to other influences and developments, or, also very possible, we are prone to limerence for very different reasons. Yours might have a touch of the white knight, and mine of wanting to be swept away by a knight.
I think it’s ok to feel a bit protective about your LO. Why not? I also feel protective about certain colleagues. It’s because they are more vulnerable.
I think you sound very good! You wrote somewhere about an upcoming meeting with LO? Jas that already taken place?
Sorry, I’m not really up to date here.
I have a question for those who are more experienced than I am. I have been struggling with my feelings for LO for about two years now. I ran into him a couple of days ago, and I noticed that he did not seem so interesting anymore. When our brief encounter ended, I did not mind and was not as consumed with him as I usually am. I am wondering if this is a sign of slow recovery, or if it’s just part of the normal ups and downs?
@Norma
I would like to say yes. But I don’t actually know – because everyone is different. But, for you, Norma, I say run with that! Take that moment, as you have, and set it prominently in your mind as PROOF that it is possible for you to feel…differently…than you have. It’s huge.
When you started posting here, you were deeply entrenched in your LE. It’s been a while and you are working so hard in your life…and giving so much effort, clearly, to healing yourself and your spirit, over this.
I say yes. I think, in my own experience, the amount of time you’ve been (basically) in a state of NC, and in a state of removal from the situation…even tho you’ve run into your LO a couple of times, your self-control is evident!…I’d say given that timeframe, yes, I have seen the same in multiple instances of limerence in my life, with similar timeframes…
I would say that the feeling of “hm…this person is not consuming, also…maybe even slightly unpalatable…” is always a turning point for me.
Be well, Norma – I’ve been in awe of you. I know that sounds dramatic, but, you are Norma Desmond after all, so allow me to be dramatic!
xo csc
Perhaps I should tell Mr. DeMille that I’m ready for my close-up?
@Norma Desmond
Yesssss Norma!!!! Most definitley. You most definitely should!!
🙂 x
Norma,
“I am wondering if this is a sign of slow recovery”
Yes! Like CSC says, any positive incident like this is to be celeberated. The route out won’t be linear, there will be ups and downs. Notice and celebrate the ups. We are all so terribly good at beating ourselves round the head with the downs.
Keep going 🙂
To LaR:
A lucky thing happened by accident. Recently, LO decided to grow a goatee, which I HATE. Even though I think he’s gorgeous, the goatee turns me off and tamps down my rabid enthusiasm for him a little bit.
Additionally, he is very self-absorbed, and spends most of our time together talking about himself. I have accepted this as part of the price of spending time with him, but I am getting a bit worn down after two years.
As an example, two years ago, he had a dog who was ailing. I checked on the dog’s welfare regularly. When the dog finally passed, I made a note of his death-date and I send LO a note in remembrance of his beloved dog every year. I also gifted him a mug with the dog’s picture on it.
Conversely, I currently have a guinea pig who is ailing, and he can’t remember the animal’s name, nor can he remember what the ailment is called.
I took it upon myself to send him a gross photo of my pet’s feet with the caption “Bumblefoot.” Perhaps the visual will help him to remember.
I know that everyone’s brain works differently, but it’s not that hard to remember a few simple facts.
Norma,
That’s lucky about the goatee, in a way. I hope for the sake of your continued progress that he doesn’t find any shaving cream anytime soon!
That’s also very funny about “Bumblefoot”. I (a male btw) have kicked around LwL for a while now (my LE has dragged on too) and I pick up that so many of the ladies on LwL find that their LO men are rubbish, compared to them, on these little details (like about your guinea pig). It seems to be a real trend.
It helped me, without forcing it, to just note little things LO did that irritated me. It is hard to see them when in the eye of the storm, but seeing them eventually makes the LO seem less perfect. Sounds like green shoots to me.
To LaR: It is a huge turn-off when a friend can’t remember simple details about you. I am sure we’re all guilty of that from time to time, but this particular LO is terrible. I have tried explaining some of my hobbies and my fondness for particular animals, and he has almost zero ability to remember anything. I would love for someone to give him a quiz on trivia about me to see how he scores! I think it would be quite low.
Norma,
Your LO would certainly fail his Green Card interview then !
(if you know the film)
He does sound self-absorbed and maybe a bit vain, with his new goatee ?!
Not defending him at all, but generally are women better at noting and remembering things to show their care versus men ?
I hope this is not controversial.
One of my female friends is just amazing on all this thoughtful stuff.
Norma, your gestures to remember LOs passed on dog is up there !
You seem like a very loyal and caring friend. Maybe bestow this onto others who you care for who would appreciate it more than your LO ….?
To Imho: Every time I mention the date of the dog passing, LO says to me in amazement, “How did you know?” And I say, “You told me.” And he can’t believe I remember. I said, of course I remember, this is important. It’s just normal to remember. He said, “It’s normal for YOU.” Meaning that he either can’t, or can’t be bothered to remember details about me. Point taken about making these gestures to people who would appreciate them more. So true!
I will just add to this… When we’re limerent for someone, we become like an encylopedia of knowledge for these little details about them, or interactione we’ve shared. I’ve (not known for wonderful memory) shocked my LO (who has the memory of an elephant) with my recall of these. Feeling limerent is a great learning aid!
LaR,
So very true !
I have tried to disguise this in actual conversations.
“Oh yes LO, I vaguely remember you telling me something about that topic a while ago ….”
But in reality you remember every encyclopaedic tiny detail, thank you very much !
Hi Norma,
you remind me of myself a bit further back where I started to concentrate on the bad or not very likable traits of my XLO. Maybe we are not completely fair (as Imho points out, men or simply other persons are different- my SO always forgets our anniversary or Valentine’s Day, but it doesn’t matter because he‘s such a good SO in other ways), but! It’s a sign that you are on your way to detaching from him. Which is good! All the best for your guinea pig!
hhhmmmm….
I cannot imaging having a better young lady to be in Limerence for… she is truly awesome.
We had a very pleasant lunch time walk, as is our habit these days.
But… I am feeling VERY sad, and am hurting, quite a lot.
What I need from her, I cannot have. I do not think I can hug her anymore, I am not a confident person, and I feel I invade her personal space, and she is too nice to tell me not to do it. So I must stop asking her for hugs.
The craving for emotional connection to her ( and hugging / touching is my love language, it is how I display affection ) is intense, painfully so.
And I have NO ONE who I can talk to about this. Who would really understand?
Besides this lovely community that is.
You who share having these Horrible LE’s… thank you for letting me open up here
Now I am gonna go have a nice sobbing cry
To NTL:
I guess it’s a mixed blessing having such a nice LO. If my LO were as sweet as yours, I don’t think I’d ever be able to break away. My LO is a standoff-ish gay man who likes me fine, but is not real kindly and has almost no sense of humor.
Our relationship is limited mainly by his lack of free time and his inability/unwillingness to engage in conversation with me.
Even though you are not looking for romance, the longing is extremely painful.
I came across the term limerence by chance, but once I heard it I knew it described exactly the situation I was in.
I am married with a 2 year old. I found myself socialising online through a game that I had go into. I think I was actively looking for a connection as I felt so lonely, and then I found one.
It hit me so hard, all of a sudden I couldn’t get this person out of my head. Why was I constantly fantasising about them. I now realise this was the glimmer. Unfortunately I didn’t know that at the time and I continued to engage with this person.
All of a sudden I was completely aware of how unhappy in my marriage I was. Now I’m sure that being limerent doesn’t help the matter, but I had been unhappy for a while and I confessed this to my LO.
What makes everything so hard is that my LO is reciprocating of these romantic feelings. I know that I need to distance myself from my LO and have even told them so, but I just can’t. In my head they are the only one that understands me and speaking to them is the only thing that calms my anxiety.
I have spoken to my spouse and told them how unhappy I am and that I am unsure if I still love them or not. I suggested that we try marriage counselling to see if we can get the the root of our issues. My spouse is still completely in love with me and although they agree that things have been hard and they haven’t been the best they could they want us to work as a family.
I just feel numb, I don’t know what to do. I feel so out of love with my spouse, but is this just because of the limerence? Can we work though our issues? What if we do, but I become unhappy again. I’m at a stage where I am questioning what to do with my life. I want to be happy, but I don’t want to throw something away because of feelings that may not even be real.
The thing is that my LO lives in a different country to me, so a physical relationship isn’t even likely. Even though there is a physical attraction for me it’s much more on an emotional level.
The guilt eats up at me so much. I have become more withdrawn with my LO, but I am still in contact with them.
My spouse is unaware that I am currently going though this. I know that it would break them.
Just to add in case it is relevant. I have a strong suspicion that I have ADHD. I have never had a LO before. I have tried to think back to whether I was originally LO to my spouse, but I can’t be completely sure (15 years ago). I do remember feeling infatuated though, so it is possible.
Welcome Cat! It’s nice to meet you! Let me see if I understand what you shared. You have been married for 15 years. You are the mother of a 2-year-old. You have been escaping from feelings of loneliness by playing games online where you feel connected to an online community. You developed feelings of attraction for someone online and now you are losing interest in your husband. Did I understand your situation correctly?
My heart goes out to you. I’m curious if you have any opportunities to socialize with adults in person: a job, school, community events, church, activities with your child and other parents…. Those things will help with the loneliness.
I’m curious about your personal standards. How committed are you to your vows? How committed are you to your child’s wellbeing?
You asked a few questions.
“ I feel so out of love with my spouse, but is this just because of the limerence?”
Your feelings may have shifted due to your limerence. I don’t have enough information to say that the shift was caused by your limerence.
“Can we work though our issues?”
Yes! Yes! Yes!!!!!!!!
Will you look into Marriage Helper? They are fantastic! I think they can help you. Here is a video that might speak to you.
https://youtu.be/O6-smRctr4g?si=h5IvQfdRVSfaqjOl
Marriage Helper has a strong presence on YouTube. I recommend that you watch some of their videos.
“What if we do, but I become unhappy again?”
That is a possibility. You will work through that struggle when you come to it.
“I’m at a stage where I am questioning what to do with my life. I want to be happy, but I don’t want to throw something away because of feelings that may not even be real”
I vote that you don’t throw away your marriage. I vote that you give your child and yourself stability.
I recommend that you look into the work of Arthur Brooks. He teaches a course at Harvard about how to be happy. I will link a YouTube video.
https://youtu.be/ZS2xu5Dq2zI?si=dWD160eIrya2F6hx
Best wishes! I hope to see you here again!
Hi Lovisa,
Thank you for taking the time to respond to me.
Yes, that pretty much sums up my situation.
I do not get to socialise very much, my husband works long hours and weekends so anytime I’m not at work I am providing childcare. I understand that this is a huge part of why I am feeling so unhappy, although there are other reasons too.
Thank you for the YouTube links I will check them both out.
I do want to try to make things right in my marriage, but at the moment I’m still hurting and feel like I am pushing my husband away.
This community has really helped me to understand my feelings towards my LO a bit more, and although I’m not quite there yet, but I am working towards going NC.
Hi Cat,
I don’t know if you are familliar with Following Fenna. (look her up on youtube, i found out about her here, she was mentioned by Dr. L) She’s great. (and more focused on the limerent, than the marriage.) She is female, has a son, and is a veteran of limerence. She is also a therapist…so her insight is interesting and direct. She speaks directly on some of the things you’re mentioning (a long-distance, inaccessible LO, loneliness / unmet needs as a trigger, and the feeling that LO is completely unique in the world, the only one who understands.) She also speaks at length on the aspects of withdrawal, that helped me a lot in going NC…preparing for it.
Personally, I would say it’s time to focus on yourself, not to contort yourself into trying to focus directly (possibly solely) on the marriage, if you are still in the midst of trying to clear the limerence. Others may disagree, but there’s my two cents.
I know what it is to feel unmoored in a long term relationship. And to hide that. It’s so hard. I know what it feels like to have a loss of self, and to feel isolated. It’s very hard. I understand, also, about wanting to make things “right” but feeling like maybe there are other aspect, within yourself, that are speaking so loudly, wondering if you should turn to listen to them.
With care,
csc
Cat, I want to get into more details with you, but I am pressed for time. I have a race this weekend and I am packing for my trip. I will try to get back to you while I’m traveling (don’t worry, I’m not driving, lol).
Can you tell me a little about your work? Do you work a lot of hours? Are you involved in a good social network at work?
Best wishes! I’ll be back in a few hours. Please know that you are not alone and that we care about you.
Miss Lovisa!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You disappeared on me 🙁 I haven’t seen you in a long time. I know you are a busy mother and wife. There’s been a large influx of new people I see you responding to. And who better to be the first responder than LwL’s den mother Miss Lovisa.
I hope that you and your family are well and safe. 🙂
Oh Adam, you are so kind. Thank you for your sweet message.
Sorry that I haven’t been more present. I have been skimming the LwL comments lately. I’m sorry to say, but some of them are very confusing. I have given up on trying to understand the stuff with emojis.
I hope you’re well! When you get your new outfit put together, I hope you have lots of opportunities to go out and show off.
Hi Lovsia,
That’s okay. I appreciate you taking time out of your busy day.
I work full time. 2 days at home and 3 days in the office. On the days that in go into the office I do have social interactions with my colleagues, however we often work over different sites, so I may see most people only once a week. I am very friendly with all of my colleagues though.
I see my mother twice a week, she comes down over the weekend and on one of the days I work from home to look after her grandchild.
Welcome Cat! I empathize with you because I’ve had long-distance relationships, and my second (and last) LO was long-distance. The bad news is that the longing in long-distance can fuel the limerence. But the good news outweighs the bad news: the distance helps you in getting over the LE. Should you wish to get over it. No contact is found to be the best antidote, and with the distance, NC is easier to uphold (though not easy by any means!). And it gets easier after the first few weeks.
It’s hard to say from the outside which came first. You may have been unhappy in your marriage for a longer time, but the limerence shined a flashlight on it. That’s what many say. You may have been mindlessly coasting on in your complacency until then, not even realizing how miserable you are.
I wouldn’t recommend making any major life decisions while in the throes of limerence. Your brain is not your own at the moment, it’s been hijacked by the LE. But how to get to a clear state of mind? That means getting out of limerence and here I’ll have to defer to the advice of NC. As well as what CSC aptly recommended – focusing on finding out what you want in life.
The other good news is that, if I read right, you both have disclosed feelings to each other, so (instead of say, ghosting) you can tell him that you are struggling with those feelings and that’s why you need to take a moment to clear your head. If he is as wonderful as you say, he should understand.
I was no longer in a committed LTR at the start of my limerence, so I didn’t have to make any decisions at that time. But when the (one-sided) limerence started making me miserable, I went NC.
One thing to consider – you are only getting the good sides of your LO. You aren’t spending your day to day life with them so you don’t even know if your relationship would survive reality.
Wishing you strength and patience!
Hi Cat, I have been pondering your situation. Thank you for providing additional details. It helps. I’m glad that you are getting regular interactions with adults. I suspected that your situation was similar to mine when my oldest was 2, but now I’m not so sure. When my oldest was 2, we lived on an island where I didn’t speak the language. I was very lonely at times. We spent a lot of time at the beach or at the mall. I read every book in the “classical literature” section of the English library. When I ran out of books, I read the Bible (I only read 467 pages because we moved and my new schedule didn’t allow for so much reading). I cooked creative and wholesome meals. I did everything I could to keep my spirits up, but it was challenging. Some days were so hard. Those days are gone. I look back on those years with fondness. I am proud of young Lovisa who put her family’s wants and needs ahead of her own. I am proud that young Lovisa found ways to make the best of her situation and enjoy it. I want that for you. I want you to be proud of the way that you handled your struggles when you look back on your life.
Let’s see if we can think of ways for you to be proud of Limerent Cat when you think back to this stage of your life.
What can Limerent Cat do that Future Cat will feel proud of?
Is there anything that would bring you shame? Perhaps something you want to avoid?
I keep thinking that you are lucky to have a husband who loves you and who is committed to your marriage. It sounds like you have a supportive mom, too. Awesome!
The feelings that you are experiencing for your LO are temporary; they will pass. You don’t actually know your LO. You are having feelings for who you think he is. Ironically, your real husband has real feelings for the real you. And maybe I am wrong, but it sounds like you don’t have negative feelings towards your husband, it sounds like you just don’t feel as attracted to your husband as you would like. Is your husband good to you and your family?
I want to share a quote with you. I don’t remember where I heard it, but I think it applies nicely right now. “You can’t heat your home with fireworks.”
I hope I’m making sense. I have been responding to you in my notes off and on for a few hours as time permits.
Hi csc,
Thank you so much for your response, it’s unbelievable how reliving it can be just to know that somebody else understands how you feel. Especially when there isn’t anyone to confide in.
I will definitely look up Following Fenna.
And actually yes, although I don’t want to completely give up on my marriage I do agree that I need to work on myself first. For without me, there can be no us.
Thank you
Cat
Hi @Cat
Yeah, it’s so true how much it helps when you can just…tell someone…confidentially and anonymously (safely) and have them say they totally get it. I felt that way when I first learned the word limerence, and came here, after googling it…I could not believe I finally had a way to understand and grapple with what had privately been so painful in my life.
As far as working on yourself…gently, yes. But, here in this space, nobody expects anyone to be harsh with themselves or somehow whip themselves into shape…everyone gets it, that it’s a process, and that limerence is confusing and painful by nature.
I am working on myself, at first with a vengeance, and now, with more of a roundabout approach. 🙂 I’m glad you feel supported. I know it’s a very, VERY lonely place to be, before you find others.
x csc
As the others have noted working towards a better you is a great step to take. Trying to heal the marriage because of our limerent actions doesn’t make for good progress. If you can’t find in yourself why you were susceptible for the lure of limerence than it may just repeat itself. Pre-limerent Adam and post-limerent Adam aren’t even the same person.
Our marriage has improved some and there’s still a lot to do, but I don’t have the fear of limerence again. Unless LO shows up in my life again. I feel the contentment and confidence I haven’t in a long time. Limerence taught me a harsh lesson. And I paid a high price. But I think it has made me a better man for myself which helps me to be a better husband and father in the future.
Take care Cat and come back anytime. This is a helluva community that is always willing to help and heal.
Rebuke/ /Spell
Kinsale Drake
I pull my heart out with teeth and claws,
leave it glimmering on the glass table:
Begone! Palo santo, sagebrush, sweetgrass
ash in the shadows. Taste cornpollen,
bitter medicine—the stomach-swirling
of forgetting. Cast it out! Memories skein
beneath the silver surface—butterfly fish
that bite. Dash the mirror. The table,
let a form fall through it. Eat
the shards. Fill up the walnut-sized gap
in your chest where your heart once was. Yes,
you—staring into aquamarine and amethyst
and praying for a miracle. Most terrible and hated
and beloved part of you: sever
the gold chain like a string
of spit. Plant a new orchid,
untouched by everything except the god
who is the sun, his body
rolling in eternity. A newer moon will mesh
the blood inside of you.
*******
😶 👁️ 🦜🔂 🤕 ✂️ 🪢 🛸🧵🪐… 🔂 🪂 🌋 🤿 📴 🏔️ 🩸🩸🩸… 🅿️ ❤️🩹 📲 ⚰️ 🔨 … 🌌 ⬛️ 🖤 📉 ⏬ … ⤴️ 🐦🔥 🧬 💨 🌱 🌱 🌱 🌚 🌃🌧️ 🌦️ 🌥️ 🐌 ⏳💪 🧗🏻♀️💠🌩️ 🌊 🌫️ 📈 ⏫⛰️… 😓 😓 😓 … 😪 😶
🕰️ 🤞San 🈷️ ershiyi ✴️ erlingerwu 🎉 @ yi:sishisi
🍅
☀️ ☕️,
🅿️ #️⃣ 👒 🔛 🔡: ☝️/🅰️, ✌️/🅱️….ershiliu/💤 ↙️
👁️ ☝️shisan 🕓 5 🅿️ shiba wu shijiu shijiu wu🕓. 19🅾️, 👁️ ☝️shisan 🥱 (shijiu shier wuwu 🅿️ ershiwu).
Shi✌️☝️shijiu ershi 🕓 🤩
🤗
🕔 ☕️,
🔢 👒 🔛 🔡: 🕑🕕/🅰️, 🕑🕔/🅱️….☝️/💤 …↙️
😶🌫️ shiba🈳 ershiliu.shisi🈳ba.shier🈳ershisi.shier.shisan.ershiyi.liu.ba.ershier.ershisan. 😵💫
https://youtu.be/buKpbm0mLgg?si=OBDRPRvG7Rzq9Z0e — Reason and Passion — Khalil Gibran
https://youtu.be/mVIXU0x9ocI?si=lBLBDy2SKrIoHpCgV— Alone by Edgar Allan Poe
https://youtu.be/Cw1_0kIYNmk?si=MxvkEptp5oIncBfXV— Do Not Love Half Lovers by Khalil Gibran
https://youtu.be/fiHoYVrB6so?si=rhaHcfcK7tEYj0kn — LIFE CHANGING POEMS for Hard times
https://youtu.be/F8ZlL6MpBHU?si=srsw0WfuuSVkyJsm — Carl Jung EXPOSES Why Someone is ALWAYS On Your Mind!
It makes a perfect sense to my LE case…. LO is definitely a symbol….
To face and embrace one’s “old” authentic Self and then to free and renew Self is the most challenging and meaningful task in one’s life, young or old, which I believe will bring anyone dreamt fulfillment and joy, even if reality is so far from perfect….
https://youtu.be/fFXSaaBS2kM?feature=shared — Sad Poems for Sorrowful Times
https://youtu.be/Rbx2nl-n7uE?feature=shared — A Tear and a Smile — Khalil Gibran
https://youtu.be/Yhi6y1XWb-E?feature=shared —Bluebird by Charles Bukowski
🏵️ 🌱 🍅,
🤖 🤖 🤖
💩 🪤 🤖
💩 🪤 🧘🏻♀️
💩 🪤 📞
💩 🪤 🍭
💩 🪤 🎨
💩 💩 💩
💩 ♾️⌛️
🤖 ➡️ 👽
👽 ➡️ 💃
💃 ➡️ 🥷
🦋 🥷 🦋
♾️ ♾️ ♾️
🏵️ 🌱 🍅
🙏🏽 ❄️ ❤️
⪽𝛓☾,
👁️🗨️ 🤖 = 🕒 🕐🕘 🕒❓😵💫
“🤖 ➡️ 👽” = 🕔 🕑🕛 ❓😵💫
“👽 ➡️ 💃” = 🕘 🕐🕒 🕗 🕐🕔 ❓🈁(or) 2️⃣3️⃣🈳1️⃣5️⃣🈳1️⃣3️⃣🈳1️⃣🈳1️⃣4️⃣ ❓👁️🗨️ 😵💫
💃 ➡️ 🥷 = ⪽𝛓☾ ❓👁️🗨️ ❔
🤔 💭 🧠 📶 ⛰️ 💦 😓💦
👁️ 🉑 👀 💎➡️ 👽 🫴🎙️ 💩 🧀 🪝 📲🍯 🍭, ❄️ 😠 😡 …
⤴️ 🤩🫥 = 👥 🫂 🐦🔥….
✂️ 👽 📴 🎭 🫥 🪡 ⏳➰➿〰️⏳& 📶… 😩
A Psyche of Spring
George Marion McClellan
Thou gaily painted butterfly, exquisite thing,
A child of light and blending rainbow hues,
In loveliness a Psyche of the Spring,
Companion for the rose and diamond dews;
‘Tis thine, in sportive joy, from hour to hour,
To ride the breeze from flower to flower.
But thou wast once a worm of hueless dye.
Now, seeing thee, gay thing, afloat in bliss,
I take new hope in thoughts of bye and bye,
When I, as thou, have shed my chrysalis.
I dream now of eternal springs of light
In which, as thou, I too may have my flight.
🤞 🕰️ 🤞, 🚫 🏃🏻♀️ 🦋
⤴️ 🐌 🐌 👀 👉 🪺 ⚧️ 🐞 🪽
⏳ 💐 🦋 🌻 🌺 🌱 🌾 🌸 🐞🪻🌻
I thought I was doing much better earlier this week, even thought I was making some good progress in extricating myself from the quicksand of limerence.
Unfortunately, I have slid backward, badly. I am so disappointed in myself. I made a list of LO’s bad qualities, and there are A LOT. In fact, I could hardly come up with any good qualities. He’s irritable, self-absorbed, and hardly has any time for me. He has almost no sense of humor and doesn’t laugh at my jokes. I once challenged him about this, and he said, “I think you’re funny, I just don’t show it outwardly.” Wait, what?
And of course he’s gay; there was never any chance for romance, and I have never thought there was a chance of a romance. I can’t figure out why I’m so crazy about him.
Hi Lovisa,
Thank you for sharing part of your story. I am proud for you of all that you have achieved and keeping your family together through it all.
I am glad of the connections I have at work, but they are mostly superficial. I did reach out to an old friend recently and have made plans to meet up with her. She has two children under 5 and the oldest has quite considerable disabilities so it’s really hard to keep in regular contact. But she split from the father of her child and managed to work it out and they went on to have another child so I feel she may have some good insights.
I have been watching lots of videos on YouTube recently, especially from marriage helper. I am still really conflicted, however I feel that it has concreted the fact that I need to work on myself first.
I feel so strange around the limerence because I do know that I am not seeing the true version of my LO but rather the version they want to show me and the version that I want to see. I try to be withdrawn, but they seem to just pull me back. It doesn’t help that they are very persistent at times. Being aware of the limerence both makes it’s easier and harder, I’m sure there are others who will understand what I mean.
My husband does love me and I do care for him as a person, but you are right, I don’t feel attracted to him not necessarily physically but more emotionally. He is mostly a good to me and our child, he does chores and cooks, he looks after all the financial obligations. There are times where I think he may be slightly controlling and I’ll be honest that my family although they are accepting of him and get along with him so also see some of this. I would like to state that my family are completely in favour of us trying to make it work though and this isn’t just something they have said to create a wedge, but rather to validate that I’m not completely imagining some of the things I am feeling.
Oh Cat, that sounds so hard. Your situation isn’t as simple as a loss of physical attraction, it is more than that. It sounds like there are heavy struggles in your marriage. Your husband’s controlling behavior is concerning to me. I suspect it is more than I get from my husband. I will bounce some ideas off you. I wasn’t allowed to go hiking alone until about 3 years ago. It was a safety issue more than a control issue. That is the best example I have. I’m guessing my example is pretty mild compared to what you’ve experienced.
My heart goes out to you.
🅾️, L🅾️, L🅾️ —
https://youtu.be/Lefbtf5jjbg?si=xBGs_pXEcFq9Vor- — Notre Dame de Paris — Belle Subtitled English HD
https://youtu.be/8xy0YytwZjE?si=DsnLaVz1-SsDLHSh — Notre Dame de Paris Lune
🧬 ⚡️💥 🧬 🔥 💫 🧬 ❤️🔥 😥 🛬 😭 💧💦 🧬 ❤️🩹 💔 🛬 💙 💦…
㊗️ 🫥 🈶☝️🎭 💗 —
https://youtu.be/LSRNjnpM7y4?si=B065poHWOoFogikG — Wishing You Were Somehow Here Again
Kahlil Gibran —
https://youtu.be/cGrVOpFTZ94?feature=shared — Love
https://youtu.be/aJ9ZMqonJLA?feature=shared — Pain
https://youtu.be/B4GLEFVVimY?feature=shared — Freedom
https://youtu.be/AlklUDYZZv0?feature=shared — Death
https://youtu.be/mhHK8BJa0fE?feature=shared — “The Perfect World”
Mushrooms and mayo are the worst. Maybe pineapple too. And let’s not even with cream/milk in coffee/tea.
Adam!
No cappuccino with latte art? No risotto with porcini? No really ripe fresh pineapple slices? I agree with Mayo though, don’t need that.
(what are you talking about,by the way?)
Adam,
Are you making an Adam “emojis” system?
Spring
Louise Imogen Guiney
With a difference —Hamlet.
Again the bloom, the northward flight,
The fount freed at its silver height,
And down the deep woods to the lowest,
The fragrant shadows scarred with light.
O inescapable joy of spring!
For thee the world shall leap and sing;
But by her darkened door thou goest
Forever as a spectral thing
Spring Morning
Marion Strobel
O day—if I could cup my hands and drink of you,
And make this shining wonder be
A part of me!
O day! O day!
You lift and sway your colors on the sky
Till I am crushed with beauty. Why is there
More of reeling sunlit air
Than I can breathe? Why is there sound
In silence? Why is a singing wound
About each hour?
And perfume when there is no flower?
O day! O Day! How may I press
Nearer to loveliness?
No Mila They are awful and make me wanna yarf. That’s the actual food. As far as flavor I like pineapple soda or candy. I like cream of mushroom soup or miso soup, avoiding the actual mushroom of course.
And you are now my new favorite person for hating mayo. :high five:
High five Adam!
Especially something called remoulade (is it tartar sauce in English, not sure). I hate it.
I tried hard to think of another food I don’t like to eat, but there are not many. I don’t like anchovies, and meat has to be of very good quality to not get me feel queasy…
Cozy Reading Nook in Paris — https://youtu.be/siJA1ta5oHU?si=338LI9U1czHRC0Wx
🥖 🧈 & ☕️ 🫚 🫖 📖 ✍️
Hello my LwL friends. Thought this would be a good time to share my thoughts. The sadness of the last LE episode has passed away, thankfully, as it always does. The worst lasted for a couple of days.
LO seems to have gone in a shell from some time, not just while interacting with me, but also, in general. There is a temptation to think why and to try and reach out and force an interaction, but I am avoiding it. If we meet naturally, so be it.
The net result is that I have not been getting validation from her, and vice versa. Since I do not feel low without the validation, this seems like a positive step for me.
Take care, you all.
ABCD,
“I do not feel low without the validation, this seems like a positive step for me.“
That’s a huge progress, congratulations for your mental resistance and persistence! 👍 Keep it up!
Thanks, my friend!
One thing that I find interesting is that often in an LE/regarding to an LO is the extreme, black-or-white nature of how one views them (speaking for myself). That is, either 1) They are the GREATEST, most amazing person in the world, and how could you not want to spend every second with them and worship the ground they walk on; or 2) They are the WORST, most frustrating person in the world, and how could they not see or appreciate how amazing you have been to them, that you’re the best friend they could ever hope to have, and bad luck for not realizing what is right in front of them, etc.
Hi J,
Interesting topic! Do you mean like two different people might view their respective LOs in these different ways, or that the same (limerent) person can flip-flop between both views of their LO at different moments?
If the second one, what sort of thing flips the switch one way or the other for you? I have found it can be the most mundane things.
“how could they not see or appreciate how amazing you have been to them, that you’re the best friend they could ever hope to have, and bad luck for not realizing what is right in front of them?”
But is a limerent really putting friendship in front of the LO? Or an altogether different proposition that is both everything (often needy, reward seeking and a lot for them to deal with) and ultimately nothing (no prospect of physical relationship)?
J, I was just about to type something to that effect, because it was really starting to grind on me. Lucky you beat me to the punch! I realize you were talking about yourself – and I apologize in advance for this rant, but I had to weigh in. 😉
I’m a person who sees thousands and thousands of grey shades (in life), so this mentality of good and evil (LOs) is just mind-boggling to me. I just can’t understand it! I’ve only met humans in my life, not “good” people or “bad” people.
I agree with Snow that as limerents we put these out of the ordinary expectations on LOs and it’s not fair. They are *our* expectations, the LO has no obligation to fulfill those to us.
Perhaps in my case it’s also a case of feeling guilty for my own behavior, because I know I haven’t always been totally upfront with guys who have had crushes on me. I will own that. It’s not always an easy situation to be in. Of course I like to think I’ve gotten more mature over time.
Also, while I’m griping: the phrase “LO goes off-script” has irked me for a longer time. I suppose it’s said in a sarcastic way. But really, LO is always on script, the limerent is the one who is totally off the page, off script! /End_rant 😉
Sorry to jump in here with an experience of LO (me), which may sound really arrogant, ignorant or inhuman… I’m sorry to be frank here —
When I was LO and pursued by those lust-struck limerents, for whom I had no glimmer, at best they appeared pathetic and at worst disgusting….
A few kind, “normal” ones who genuinely tried to befriend and truly put my interests and wellbeing ahead of them have remained as friends probably until my deathbed….
A lot of us limerents (including myself) did behave “loony” either realistically or in our own head, touring ourselves… It’s limrent’s own altered state of mind that seeing an illusion of LO, almost never as a real person with multiple sides, either a saint or devil….
Typo: torturing ourselves.
Reminds me Limerent Emeritus telling me, as I lamented “poor woman” as LO has been through some relationships, and he said “It’s not just relationships but it is also the people in them.” And to say I got a bit perturbed at his insinuation that LO was even partly responsible for her failing relationships would be an understatement. No man deserves her.
So yes it confuses and perplexes me when I read limerents talking about their LOs frustrating traits but yet still not being able to pull away from them. I would get upset if anyone in the office even threw a sideways glance at LO and would speak up and defend her vehemently. I guess altered state of mind is altered state of mind either way.
Adam 🥃,
You’re a cute modern Don Quixote or Lancelot in lunacy — I’m pulling your leg….
🥂
Snow
Yeah to say I had any rational with her would be an understatement. Normally I’d wear the badge of Don Quixote with pride. But when it came to her it was detrimental. Quite like lunacy indeed. Never again hopefully.
💪 📶 ➡️ 💎 🧠!
🫂
Hi all,
That’s why the advice to devalue your LO always sat wrong with me. They are just people, they are as weak or strong as normal persons and didn’t choose to have that power over us that we gave them. They have no obligations towards us to make it easier for us or to behave this or that way.
I second Trifles- what script? We limerents are the ones who have trouble to behave normally and we should take our responsibility for it.
Of course it’s a part of the limerent affliction not to be able to view LOs in a neutral way. But while we know that we tend to glorify LO we have to see that vilifying them is only the other side of the coin. I know what I‘m speaking of since I still struggle with vilifying my XLO. There might be a short time benefit of finally managing to detach more, but one has to be aware that these negative emotions towards LO are still not normal or entirely LO‘s fault, and we have to take responsibility.
Otherwise we might get rid or this LE, but the next one with a „this time truly fantastic“ LO will be round the corner.
Some of the descriptions of LOs here made me a bit thoughtful too. We cannot know how they really are or behave, we all see them through the lens of limerent persons. It’s not wholly fair on them, and it’s hard to judge whether they are behaving ok or not ok.
*“rid of this LE“
🔥 🍊 🍷,
👏👏👏
🏵 🌱 🍅
One more thought for the “off script” analogy. What if the main character of the story isn’t us, but LO? *gasp* Then we would only play a tiny part in the story of their life, perhaps a cameo. But I’m pretty sure my xLOs will remember me. 😀
Even though I feel like I made a slight fool of myself, I like to think that xLO will think back fondly: “I’m so attractive and wonderful that this poor, pretty and otherwise smart lady couldn’t handle texting with me. It was too much for her!” So I’d at least have had a positive effect on him. What else can we hope for?? 😜
🍨,
We have not made a “fool” of ourselves, just because we got infected by LE. Please remember that dream in which you validated yourself…
To have a “positive effect on” LO? Did you play or wish to play a “savior’s” role in your xLE?
🦜,
No, I was in no way playing the role of savior.
I was just finding a positive spin to limerence, when viewing the big picture. To leave positive memories in other people’s minds – isn’t that the best that we can leave behind in the end?
🍨,
“I was just finding a positive spin to limerence, when viewing the big picture. “
Absolutely! An elephant can be viewed from at least 5-6 angles, so let’s choose our favorite side. Like what Mila said a few days ago, we could choose to believe, to a certain point, what has happened in our LE. Nor xLO would jump out to contradict or refute our chosen version. Stick to the shinny images and memories of LE and accept the other side of the coin in the “trunk” of your lifetime!
“To leave positive memories in other people’s minds – isn’t that the best that we can leave behind in the end?”
Yet, it is. But often what we intend and wish is far away from how other people, friends, LOs see or perceive us; and there are few ways we could find out what truly is left in their mind. Of course, we all wish to be remembered nicely; but what could we do if we erroneously left some dark images in their mind or in our path? Are we supposed to live in perpetual regrets for the rest of our life?
If we care about others’ thoughts and memories (positive or negative) about us more than necessary, aren’t we living for external eyes/lens (fickle evaluation & judgment), instead of crucially for our own 👁️ ?
I know for sure that shameless, fearless🐦🔥 has left her wing-prints on Earths, Mars, Jupiter, or Uranus….
“The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed.” —Carl Jung
🍨 : trust Zeus, you’ve made positive imprint in all your LOs or TOs, as long as you have not intentionally made their life less or worse…
I agree that we’re dealing with people and not archetypes. There are some true villains out there, but most people are not. 🙂 And LO’s may have no clue—I found out 20 years later that one of my high school friends had a passion for me that he never expressed. And some LO’s are the ones doing the chasing….
Well, I’ll chime in here, why not.
I’m definitely in the devaluation camp. I feel some LO’s are incorrigible breadcrumbers, and they like the attention. I feel it’s a two way street.
That being said, I feel it is also the limerent’s sole responsibility to remove themselves.
I am fine with whatever helps the limerent survive. (Team Limerent) The truth is, the LO is going to be just fine if the limerent withdraws. They are not in it to the degree the limerent is. They may feel sad, they may feel like “what happened to my friendship?” but, the limerent is facing total dissolution of their life, the architecture of their life, and their security.
So, I feel that whatever works, do it. But work through it. Don’t stay in the demonizing phase — because then you’ll be obsessed in the other direction. Feel all your feelings, and let them pass through til you feel clear. Burn LO in effigy if you want, but don’t tell them you’re doing it. haha
(This is feelings only — not harmful action, truly obsessive behavior that would bring bodily harm or property damage etc… to anyone).
„ The truth is, the LO is going to be just fine if the limerent withdraws. They are not in it to the degree the limerent is. They may feel sad, they may feel like “what happened to my friendship?” but, the limerent is facing total dissolution of their life, the architecture of their life, and their security.“
And how do you know that? There are LOs who are limerents too, or in love with you, or mentally dependent on you, or..
I agree though that there are times when you have to put yourself first, and in the end that might be best for the other side too.
@mila
Yeah — I am all for giving some time, making sure it’s not just shyness or miscommunication etc. But, limerences that go on and on…they’re harmful.
They don’t resolve. They eat years of our lives. They cause immense pain and suffering. All the things we could have been doing with our time…all of it lost down the insatiable sinkhole of limerence. It happens. But we are the ones who choose to stay down there.
No, it’s not LO’s fault — no matter how they feel about us. But those things, when put up agains whether LO is gonna feel bad…it’s no contest, for me.
“Yes, the world needs more tough broads! I picture myself like a Bette Davis or Barbara Stanwyck type. 🙂”
@Marcia,
Personally I’m a fan of Joan Crawford, so it would help us all out if you could be a little more snarky and irate like her.. 😂
Mila,
“And how do you know that? “
Just do what you need to do first — pulling back and sitting with compassion for both sides, then you’ll find out (how LO would behave).
“There are LOs who are limerents too, or in love with you, or mentally dependent on you, or..”
They’re neither our obligation nor within our abilities to “fix” — they’re not babies and many have their SO already. We cannot change anyone else, unless they want to change themselves and actually take actions to do so. We can be their faithful cheer leaders, but not their mental or emotional crutch!
Snow,
I meant, how does csc know that, because she states it as if a fact.
I just meant that they could in any possible state of mind, it’s wrong to simply assume they will be fine whatever we do. It’s like with any human being, they should be treated with respect too.
CSC,
I don’t mean I believe that you would treat any human beings without respect, I just generally want to clarify that limerence doesn’t give us free way to behave like assholes either 😉
Mila,
Normally I dislike analyzing anyone else’s LO (I still don’t even know 👽 well enough after 8 years); however, based on the given information, I sense that LO is one of 🐕🅾️ and she kept taking baits, or vice versa… 👁️🗨️
If I were in that scenario (with a loving SO and the age gap), I’d absolutely cut off the 🪢, no matter how much pains I would have to suffer.
In reality, anyone under 40 appears immature in my immature eyes… sorry for the generalization here.
“Life really does begin at forty. Up until then, you are just doing research.” — Jung
@mila
I’m curious – what would you see as a situation where the LO would not “have respect”?
Like — what would the limerent do that would degrade that?
Use the LO? Or, not disclose? Or…simply walk away?
I have no clue what disrespecting an LO would look like. What I do know is what disrespecting myself looks like. I’m not trying to be argumentative, it’s that I often hear you say that concern for others is a huge concern for you….and so, I am curious, what is all this disrespect of LO that is happening? I have read a lot of limerent stories here, and never have I seen one where the limerent disrespected LO to the degree that LO would have any clue it happened. Sometimes poor LO is sad they lost their friend, but I don’t think they felt disrespected…just sad and confused. But, honestly, LO’s are not clueless. I really do believe they know what is actually going on, most, if not all (sorry snow!) of the time.
CSC,
Don’t you think that might be because we hear these stories solely from a one-sided perspective? The respective LOs never get a say here, and we cannot know how they felt or if they were devastated or not. There is mutual limerence, too, so LO=limerent, what about that?
Not having respect is for example deciding that LO is a man-eating validation-seeker and feeling free to speak about them to others in that way, or leading them on a pull-push- dance because limerence ebbs and flows , while blaming all the pull-push on them.
I agree that it’s at some stage of limerence not advisable to have too much concern. But it should still be clear that that‘s because it’s necessary at that stage and not because one is in reality a poor victim of an evil LO. This last scenario might happen, but I think it happens rarely to that extreme extent.
@mila
hm…I see what you’re saying. For me, here, that kind of thing doesn’t come across as disrespect (since this is an anonymous, therapeutic space)…we don’t know who the LO is, we don’t know the limerent either.
But, if that kind of talk spilled out into the real world – as in, the limerent was speaking to their colleagues or mutual peers about LO that way, yes, that would absolutely be disrespectful. And not advisable!
However, here, in this space, I often feel it serves a purpose. I see it as a kind of semi-public venting. It’s out there, and then we others can reply, to help. I feel that kind of honest wrangling with one’s feelings, here, can really help work the process through.
For me, it helped. I was able to share that my LO is a bit of a user. It helped me say it out loud. But, it also helped that others asked, ok, so what are you going to do about that, csc? …basically they gently put it back on me.
I hear what you’re saying though, regarding how a private LE should not be aired without caution, and how doing so could lead to disrespecting LO’s personal boundaries in the real space. (and making the Limerent look very bad and vindictive in the eyes of others) Definitely agree with you! TY for clarifying! Very interesting!
CSC,
I don’t know if you read my countless rants about my XLO😅so I‘m definitely guilty of not being completely fair to him here, and I absolutely agree that this is the space to vent and that it is helpful!
So we might not be so far apart in our opinions anyway… I have this bad habit of weighing in on the side that is less represented (for example LOs) even when it’s not my side…
Mila,
If you want to know how the LO feels … do nothing. Pull way back and do nothing. Or remove yourself from the place you see the LO (church, work, an activity). For the most part, the LO will do one of two things:
1.) Also do nothing. Never reach out themselves; or
2.) Take a while to notice the limerent hasn’t reached out and do a very minimal reaching out of their own (“Hey, how are you?” in a text).
The limerent is often driving the “friendship” or interactions. Mutual limerence is rare.
@mila
i give a lot of benefit of the doubt to the LO as well. i see they are human, i know that with hindsight, they will appear in a more realistic way (and so will I, I will see myself in hindsight).
currently, i am dealing with an incredibly weird LO. he went a bit beyond what Marcia depicts. He texted, but then invited me to get together. But…it wasn’t a real invite like “let’s do this at this time”. It was “let’s do this!” and then…nothing.
We finally had a plan, and then he cancelled literally at the last minute, with a weird excuse. Then, he was back in touch after to say “oh, wait, I can still go!” and asked if I could rush there last minute. I told him no.
Overall, I got the feeling LO was either totally besotted with me and could not manage his own feelings or…more likely…just didn’t really want to show up, so he kind of put it back on me, ‘well, i didn’t really cancel on her, she had a chance to go and didn’t do it!’ …he was in touch a little bit later. but it was not…it just seemed vague.
I am in a very deep no contact. I’ve blocked him and deleted him, and just can’t do this anymore.
I wish he was mutual for me. I think I can be forgiven for thinking maybe he was. But, if it was mutual…it would be mutual, and he would have apologized for cancelling and made an actual plan.
All this is to say an LO can give a lot of promises, a lot of seeming interest — but when it really gets down to it, they back off. And that is why limerence is all about being in limbo, push-pull, ambiguity. Consistent inconsistency.
I am sure I’ll go from this degradation / demonization phase in a few days and then…just be very, very sad and lost.
Yes, I know you have a rather infuriating XLO and I certainly don’t envy you. However, I think you are very, very tolerant. From what I’ve read…I could not put up with a person like your LO…I would have to cut him off (as I’m now doing)…It is all too much for me, and I am very upset at myself for wasting a year of my life on this.
Having a charitable mindset is a lovely thing — and it seems yes, you are always looking to protect those who cannot protect themselves. I just hope you protect yourself, too. 🙂 I’m sure you do, in your own way!
Now I have to try and learn how to do better, it’s not going to be easy!
I guess the point is that demonising the LO or saying they were ‘off script’ (and Trifles, I know I am one of the guilty ones for this phrase) both seem to be disowning the limerent’s responsibility. WE wrote the majority of whatever ‘script’ there is – LO didn’t write it and may not even know about it!
Some LOs are arguably more responsible than others for sustaining LEs. But I agree with the majority here that 1. that a ‘good’ v ‘bad’ binary probably is unhelpful when we’re dealing with complex human feelings; 2. Usually the limerent must take the lion’s share of responsibility for their LE.
Clarification on my use of ‘off script’ – I took the wording from other LwLers who may not mean the same thing, but I usually mean they deviate from *our* script (as limerent) that we deem to be ideal. The LO of course has the right to a different script, or no script at all. I mean that the limerent often tries to determine a script (probably an unrealistic one) and then gets disappointed when the LO (quite reasonably) doesn’t act according to it. I usually use it in the context of saying why I don’t think disclosure is a good choice – you cannot really imagine what the script will be there, and there is rarely a good one (in my experience and from what I’ve read here, anyway)
Hi Marcia,
Long time no see 👋!
I hope youve been well??
I am very much in recovery mode and I appreciated your questions to Mila because they do focus the mind.
What I can say, looking back, is that my LO kept reaching out without me intiating – it was work of the voluntary kind (think of it as “a coalition of the willing”-type situation). Anyway, always reaching to 2 or 3 of us, over the course of a few years, so there was plausible deniability. Heck, it might even have been innocent. But the gazing and eye contact when we met f2f told me otherwise – I felt in my gut that something weird was going on etween us. Of course, he was not available and neither was I so it was…….
📢 Futile!
Hope all is good in Marcia land. Have you remained limerence free?!?
Hi all,
Fascinating discussion!
I always took LO gping “off script” to mean when they chased you a bit after you decoded you were done and were trying LC/NC??
Oops *decided*, sorry
On the good/bad LO thing, this is something crude, a narrative, that helped me. I would say that good/bad is even too binary for what I used to help me, more that I convinced myself that he was not necessarily interested (even if he showed signs that he was) and that he was a bit irritating at times in work settings. But I always fully knew it was a construct of my own, manufactured purely to help me put of the cage, and that it had to bearing in reality.
It didnt stay like that, once I didnt need to paint him as this or that anymore, he went back to being adorable in my mind. No one else knows whats in my mind and I consider it private property, to do with as I see fit. I never remotely acted on it?
LaR, That’s how I’ve understood “going off script” as well – that LO deviates from our ideal script. And I noted that it was probably most often used with sarcasm, but still the term kind of irks me. Because the connotation still is that we (royal ‘we’ 😜) are the center of the universe and LO is the minor character who ideally really kinda should go along with our grand plan…
Yeah I see what you mean totally Trifles.
It’s ironic really, given that those of us limerents with SO (and or when our LO has an SO) don’t really have any kind of sensible script for where it’s going – not the kind you’d find in a romcom anyway. We’re not scripting as much as weaving tangled webs!
Re how I use the phrase to other posters in disclosure discussions – perhaps a better recast of it is “you can’t hope to script it, so are you ready for the uncertainty and all possible outcomes that brings?”. It becomes more like uncomfortable improv! It was that (and the idea I couldn’t hope to write a script, let alone a good script) that ultimately stopped me disclosing to LO/MFF
Hi Bewitched,
“I hope youve been well??”
That’s sweet of you to ask. Yes, I am still here! I think that’s a Stephen Sondheim song. 🙂
” But the gazing and eye contact when we met f2f told me otherwise – I felt in my gut that something weird was going on between us.”
There’s often some level of reciprocity from the LO … fondness and/ or attraction. But all I know from my own situation … (and my LO even disclosed) … that if I left my job, I would never have seen or heard from him again. Isn’t that the biggest tell of all?
“Have you remained limerence free?!?”
Yes. Once you reach my age, the few offers you get … are NOT going to elicit limerence. (I’m not sure if I should put a smiley face or a frown with that comment.)
Marcia!
You are still there! I‘m happy!
You are right that it will pan out like that in most cases. My cases were unfortunately either of the rare mutual kind or for a friend. My last LO (whom I‘m no longer limerent for, don’t know if you know?💪🏻💪🏻) for example drives the friendship all by himself at the moment. He might be (still?) limerent, what do I know, but he didn’t give up when I went quiet on him.
How are you, Marcia?
All good? Still on the dark chocolate?
CSC,
Don‘t forget that you know my XLO only through my negative comments here. It’s not the whole picture, I lean heavily on the negative side here. He can be quite sweet and is very loyal to me.
Interesting thing is, I talked a bit about our friendship and my problems with his behavior with different people who know him too, and while the male friends supported my negative view more, the female friends defended him more…
Your LO sounds simply a bit chaotic to me. He might not know at all what havoc he‘s wreaking because he‘s only playing around himself and doesn’t know it’s serious business on your side. but I could be wrong.
If you feel it’s the best for you to go Nc and block him, that’s the right thing to do, I guess. If he‘s simply chaotic or if he dies it on purpose, he won’t suffer much from it. If he‘s limerent himself, this is still better for him than having confusing hot/cold contact, just like it is for you.
I hope you skip the sad phase and just get more empowered by it!
I‘m not that charitable, by the way. Maybe I should lean a bit more on my own negative side here…
Mila,
“You are still there! I‘m happy!”
That’s sweet of you to say.
“what do I know, but he didn’t give up when I went quiet on him.”
Are you talking about the most recent one? I thought you were often frustrated with him in terms of how long it took him to respond and how short his texts were ? You seemed to want more communication from him ? We’re not rewriting the past, are we? 🙂
“How are you, Marcia?
All good? Still on the dark chocolate?”
I’m ok. How are you doing?
I’m eating Hu chocolate. With cashew butter. It’s 70% so cheating a little but it’s still considered dark chocolate. There’s no dairy.
Marcia,
Had to laugh at „rewriting history“! You are always on spot, but I don’t think I am, honestly.
yes, I was always complaining about his not texting here and not responding there, but after a last sort of argument I gave up completely, limerence made an exit and now it’s him who texts longer and initiates every single contact- although everything still in the same superficial way and still proving insensitive in crucial moments, but now I don’t care any more so much.
The only thing I still have to get over is resentment from time to time- I see now that he‘s always been that way and can’t change, so there’s no sense in being resentful at him, and it’s a waste of (negative) energy…
I googled Hu chocolate, found one with hazelnut butter in my country. Interesting! I like hazelnut more than cashew.
LAR,
Thanks for explaining, now I understand the way you were using „off -script“.
How do you feel in the meantime? Would you say you reached a stage where not much she would do/say could pull you back into limerence, or are there still some embers glowing?
Sorry if I missed some posts and am asking stupid questions.
An observation; I usually see “off script” used when the LO behaves in a way that the limerent didn’t want them to. I think I was self aware enough that I really didn’t expect anything to happen that wasn’t 100% fantasy and I knew it.
For me when LO would go “off script” was when she would do something that I didn’t expect her to. Which started out “mothering” me. Bringing me a water when I was out in the 100F warehouse heat in the summer. Making sure I ate lunch every day. Or “scolding” me because I smoked more cigarettes than was to her liking due to my heart condition.
Maybe it was due to the realization of the fantasy. Or because unlike MJ I could never live out those fantasies of LO because I wasn’t going to break up my family for them. So I didn’t really expect her to act in any certain way. I just enjoyed her company. And while yes I did give her preferential treatment it wasn’t inappropriate for co-workers.
Mila,
I’m doing OK thank you 🙂 Have stepped up exercise and improved eating. Not suddenly found a miracle cure for the fatigue, but it hasn’t got any worse either and I think that will improve when I can next break from work and by extension the LE. Things with SO are unsurprisingly in a better place since I got LO out of the front of my mind. Could I be pulled back in / are there still embers? Probably some, but they aren’t currently bothering me too much and I remain watchful of them. I have plenty of exposure to LO interactions and hence the opportunity to figure out ‘the new normal’. It’s weird because even though (as discussed above), there is no mutual script, we both seem to have managed to get onto a different script this year where neither is fanning the flames anymore. But so far that has happened without me finding her unfriendly (more just ‘appropriately friendly’), or our friendship feeling at risk. It is taking some getting used to, but I guess it is a nice outcome to reach. Though I miss the highs of limerence like crazy, I sure don’t miss the lows.
Mila,
“after a last sort of argument I gave up completely, limerence made an exit and now it’s him who texts longer and initiates every single contact”
That’s good. You’re the girl. You’re the prize. Let his butt do the initiating. 😀
“The only thing I still have to get over is resentment from time to time- I see now that he‘s always been that way and can’t change, so there’s no sense in being resentful at him, and it’s a waste of (negative) energy…”
I have trouble with that, too. Accepting people for who they are and what they’re willing to give.
“I googled Hu chocolate, found one with hazelnut butter in my country. Interesting! I like hazelnut more than cashew.”
I like their chocolate. Not too dark so it’s not bitter.
Marcia,
it’s quite expensive though, plus shipping costs… will look out for it in shops.
I usually have not much trouble with accepting people how they are until I get limerent for them, but recently I notice that I get more impatient with other people too. I guess it’s the hormones. And maybe it’s ok to get a bit less tolerant, as CSC said..
Also, Marcia,
his butt is not that great. Not bad, but not great, so he can initiate with it how much he wants, will leqve me indifferent 😎
LaR,
Sounds good on all fronts.
Your LO seems to be a sensitive one who reacts on changes of atmosphere. There’s much hope this will end well. I understand about missing the highs. When limerent, I imagined keeping a close friendship who would still validate me in ways that (now I see it) only limerence does. Now the friendship I can still have seems reduced and a bit bleak. But I blame that for a part on my XLO being emotionally stunted. Your LO isn’t, but do you have a similar feeling? I‘m curious if it’s only my special case, or if I was bound to feel that way in any case, even with a sensitive LO like yours.
May I ask which exercise you do? I want to ramp up my exercise too and think o should go more for resistance training than cardio in my age, but cannot decide if I should join the gym once more or try at home…
I‘m glad you feel better and hope you‘ll have a great free time from work soon!
Mila,
“Now the friendship I can still have seems reduced and a bit bleak…do you have a similar feeling? I‘m curious if it’s only my special case, or if I was bound to feel that way in any case, even with a sensitive LO like yours.”
So yes I do feel like that – that the friendship is a bit beige now – though with a few ‘buts…’ (and not the kind of butts you and Marcia are discussing 😂)
How to explain well without writing a book??! I know I could (in another hypothetical world minus my SO) continue to have the deeper level of friendship with LO from before (I have experienced over a long time that she has appetite for it too). Maybe that might have developed, maybe not, who knows 📣Futile alarm!! 📣
It feels like the closer friendship still exists but is dormant or hibernating. I also believe that if I try and push back towards awakening that, I will get limerent again. And she may not let me for the reason that (I believe) she’s partly keyed in to that fact – definitely she’s not a passive party to the change that’s happened, so she’s twigged something. So it’s more about the level of friendship I can maintain without limerence, than about the potential level there could be if that wasn’t a factor. My choice was to stay loyal to SO because I couldn’t realistically keep both plates spinning at the level they were. I can’t have my cake and eat it.
I can believe this version of events whether I tilt to ‘yes’ or ‘no’ on my story of if the LE was ever mutual.
I’d like to find a friendship level that’s less bland than now, but doesn’t trigger limerence. But I don’t yet know how to set the dial right for that. I’ll continue to update here to see how that progresses.
As for the comparison to yours – I do get annoyed with her at times, but it doesn’t feel like the resentment you tend to express. It is more a mild irritation at her more difficult traits, which I do now see where once I didn’t. In the end, I was more the brake on our friendship being even better, not her, so I can’t and don’t blame her for the change.
I think to really compare our aftermaths, I need to get further. Like, how many months since you would say you were not limerent, 6 or so? Mine is still a matter of two months if that. So I think mine has a while to run to find the level it settles at and to then be comparable. What I don’t think will happen is having to give it up completely – but I put her ability to “read the room”, and our long histories of being able to “read each other” as huge factors in that, so maybe there is a key difference there down to her character type vs your xLOs.
Exercise – I am not doing anything intense, just a combo of walking, swimming and cycling. The principle is to make sure I get in some consistent levels each day, more than push too hard and crash. My body might object if I push too hard too soon – I have never really been a gym bunny! I used to do road running but have a long-term knock that makes that and other high impact sports a risk. I have given that a long while to heal and probably could now risk pushing it more. People my age (and I have picked up you and I are similar ages) swear by the cross trainer as the best bit of cardio gym equipment, if you were thinking of investing in anything for home.
@Marcia.
Hello, old friend. It’s nice to see you around the place again. I’m sure your presence has been missed. Hope you have been well. 🙂
Marcia,
Nice to see you! ☺️ It gets tiring being the only tough broad here…
“I’m eating Hu chocolate.” – Ways to say “I’m a rich b*tch” without saying “I’m a rich b*tch” 😜 (The chocolate with cashew butter sounded delicious so I also had to google it!)
@Marcia & Trifles.
On the topic of chocolate…
I saw five schoolboys on the train. One of them had an opened chocolate bar in his hand. His mate leaned over and ate half of it without asking permission first…
Nobody complained about the antics of the chocolate thief. The mood of the group remained harmonious. I was astonished. 😲
At the same age, if a schoolfriend stole half my chocolate bar, it would have been War World III. I’d let him take 15%. I’d let him take 35% maybe on a good day. But I’d never let him take a full 50%.
I see what my problem is in life – I’ve never learned to share. Also, I’ve never been able to lose myself in a “group” so thoroughly that I can see the wins and losses of the group as my own. I’ve never been able to see myself as just one more faceless member of the tribe.
Clearly, these boys were so happily immersed in their “group identity”, they’d temporarily lost sight of their individual identities, and I think there’s something truly beautiful in that. That’s an emotional experience I’ve never had – forgetting myself completely.
I’m pretty easy-going. But I can’t imagine myself being so chilled out and so generous that I’d let random mates pinch chocolate right out of my hand without comment. I think there might be something wrong with my character. Lack of magnanimity regarding chocolate is surely a serious character flaw… 😲😲😲🤔
I swear I’m not trying to separate you from your chocolate. Do I look like the manipulative type to you? Do I look like the kind of man who’d guilt-trip a lady out of her candy? But since you were gracious enough to bring the topic up, we might as well get down to brass tacks. May I **cough, cough** have some of your Hu chocolate? 😁
I personally prefer dame over broad. But definitely better than skirt. Though I have been shamed for my use of gal too. Maybe I am just too outdated to talk to chicks anymore. Sisters are different in this day and age. I’m betting there’s some sheila down under that can drink this old man down under the table if I ever manage to over come my fear of dinner plate sized spiders. (There I think I’ve managed to offend the entire globe.)
Also nice Chappelle Show reference Trifles. 👍
🧐 🔫 🍫 〰️ 🍫 💥🔫 🔥 📈 ❓🙀 😨
🍅, ⏳ ✌️ 🏃🏻♀️ ❗️
Mila,
“it’s quite expensive though, plus shipping costs… will look out for it in shops.”
In the states, I can find it in the regular grocery stores. It’s a little pricier than, say, Hershey’s, but it’s not wildly expensive. Hopefully, you can find it in the stores.
“I usually have not much trouble with accepting people how they are”
How do you do that? You mentioned that the friendship with your LO (can I call him an ex-LO? And isn’t that a wonderful title!) is a little shallow. I have friendships like that. Where I wish they were deeper or I heard from the person more. I mean, I can intellectually tell myself, “Ok. I’m just going to hear from this person every few months and it will be an inane check-in about next to nothing. That’s all I can expect.” But how do I stop being disappointed? Or even irritated they want so little?
“his butt is not that great. Not bad, but not great, so he can initiate with it how much he wants, will leqve me indifferent 😎”
Does he have pancake ass? 🙂 I could objectively look at my LO and know he wasn’t the hottest guy in the room. But I was so infatuated with him … even the attributes I knew weren’t “world class,” I still found hot … because they were his. Damn, that sounds cheesy. 🙂
Trifles,
“Nice to see you! ☺️ It gets tiring being the only tough broad here…”
That made me laugh. Yes, the world needs more tough broads! I picture myself like a Bette Davis or Barbara Stanwyck type. 🙂
““I’m eating Hu chocolate.” – Ways to say “I’m a rich b*tch” without saying “I’m a rich b*tch” 😜”
Hey, back off, sister. I didn’t name the chocolate! “Hu” does sound a little pretentious, doesn’t it? 🙂
“(The chocolate with cashew butter sounded delicious so I also had to google it!)”
It is. I was originally just eating their basic dark chocolate that is 70% but I tried the cashew butter on a whim. The cashew butter is the only dark chocolate I’ve ever eaten that tasted as good as it looked. Usually, I’d eat dark chocolate and think it was just ok. Better than no chocolate at all. And a girl’s got to have her chocolate. Men disappointment but Hu Chocolate does not! 🙂
Sammy Sams,
“May I **cough, cough** have some of your Hu chocolate? 😁”
Didn’t you say you looked like Robert Redford? If that’s true, you can have the whole damn bar. 🙂
Marcia Dear,
Welcome back. Did you have a nice sabbatical?? I’ve missed your ribbing. How polite of you to forget your favorite MJ.
And here I thought we were friends.. 🙂
“Yes, the world needs more tough broads! I picture myself like a Bette Davis or Barbara Stanwyck type. 🙂”
@Marcia,
Personally I’m a fan of Joan Crawford, so it would help us all out if you could be a little more snarky and irate like her.. 😂
Marcia, I’ve got nothing against the name. I just checked that a bar costs 30 euros over here. A tad expensive for two ounces of chocolate… But I’m not going to pretend that even that would keep me down to just one piece per day! 😉
“MJ,
How polite of you to forget your favorite MJ.”
I’m going to say to you what a man once said to me. “You’re ONE of my favorites.” 🙂
“Personally I’m a fan of Joan Crawford, so it would help us all out if you could be a little more snarky and irate like her.. 😂”
Oh, I love her, too. In “Humoresque” where she tells John Garfield, “I ought to slap your face.” He says, “I ought to see you try.” And then she throws her glass against the wall. Now, you know these two are having hot, monkey sex, right? 🙂
Trifles,
“I just checked that a bar costs 30 euros over here. A tad expensive for two ounces of chocolate”
I think it’s about $4.50 a bar over here. There are 8 small squares so it last me 8 days.
“… But I’m not going to pretend that even that would keep me down to just one piece per day! 😉”
I’m trying to be good. It’s a struggle. 🙂
Marcia,
ha! What is a pancake ass? Flat? Maybe he‘s got one!
My SO has a much better butt.
I remember that you like intense friendship with deep discussions. I think I can enjoy that intensity only if meetings and discussions are spaced out. I‘m an introvert at heart and need space and distance in between intensity. I can enjoy superficial but warm everyday contact.
As long as my heart isn’t set on a person too much, I can leave them be how they are, because their behavior doesn’t affect me emotionally too much. When my heart is set on a person, I can tolerate their different ways because I like them so much.
But when limerent, well.
Let’s not talk about it.
Yeah, it’s funny how suddenly physiques are attractive to us that usually are not. I do wonder if, if XLO would have suddenly by miracle appeared naked in my bed back then, I would have suddenly woken up out of limerence because he‘s not really my type, physically spoken?(other than LO1 who really was).
Hu chocolate costs about 6€ plus 4/5€ shipping here.
Maybe there are selected shops that sell it.
Wow it’s a busy day today in here.
Fiery women huh? My wife gets mad at me, and we are mid argument and I am thinking I just want push her on the bed and ……
“Are you really thinking I want to when I am this mad at you?”
“I dunno. But it’d be cool if you did.”
Mila,
“ha! What is a pancake ass? Flat? Maybe he‘s got one!”
Yes. The flip side of that is TMA. Too much ass. It’s rare for men, but I’ve seen it. 🙂
“I remember that you like intense friendship with deep discussions. ”
I do, but the entire friendship isn’t deep discussion after deep discussion. Sometimes it’s just hanging out and doing fun stuff, like a movie and drinks. What I really like is a decent amount of communication so we know what’s going on in each others’ lives and really knowing each other — past relationships, childhood stuff, etc. So when I get a text from a friend once every 3 months … And we just go to lunch every now and then. The friendship feels pretty shallow. It’s a catch-up friend. (This is just an example.)
” I can enjoy superficial but warm everyday contact.”
I can do that, too. Do you have friends you have every day contact with? NOT LOs. 🙂 Friends.
“But when limerent, well. Let’s not talk about it.”
With limerence, we limerents want the sun, the moon and the stars. 🙂
“Yeah, it’s funny how suddenly physiques are attractive to us that usually are not.”
Actually, my last LO was my usual type. To a T.
But my type has never been the hottest guy in the room. I’ll notice that guy, but there has to be more there to trigger me than that.
“Hu chocolate costs about 6€ plus 4/5€ shipping here.”
That is a little pricey.
“I’m going to say to you what a man once said to me. “You’re ONE of my favorites.” 🙂”
@Marcia,
I think I believe you but somehow I see you really wanting to react like this.. 😁
https://youtube.com/shorts/noK0QtxZKRc?si=K-AwibGFDBwAcN70
Tough Old Broad 🤣🤣
MJ,
I could say all those lines, just as bitchily. 😀 Except the one about not wanting to be stared at. I would never uttter those words. At my age, I take any objectifying I can get. 😀
“At my age, I take any objectifying I can get.”
And thats the Marcia I’ve been missing. I kinda feel the same way Dear..
This is my favorite angry Joan clip.. If only my ex could have defended me like this to my in laws. I might still have a marriage today..
https://youtube.com/shorts/nGOHRPPYgD0?si=VpEkdbdwbkNbHNyn
Marcia,
would you believe it, now I even searched for photos of LO on my phone to decide on his ass. I guess it’s an ok ass,really. Not flat, not too much, but not very perky either.
I also don’t go for the officially hottest guy, there are much more factors, and even physically I’m not necessarily attracted to the “usual” stuff like sixpacks, regular face features etc.
Every day contact per se, no! That’s why it got too much for me with XLO texting almost every day. I just have quite a few work friends that I also see outside work occasionally, and these people I see at work, which might be daily in some weeks.
I know what you mean when you describe this shallow feeling with friends. It’s exactly what I felt going on with XLO now, only on a daily basis (not any more because I keep reducing it). He just can’t communicate on a deeper level – not that I need that daily, like you said, but from time to time, or even just the possibility to have a deeper conversation when necessary.
I thought about it. I think I feel best either way friends I don’t see that often, but when we meet, it’s immediately all open talk, they instantly connect on a personal level. Maybe a bit of distance is good for that kind of connection? Because there are not that many wires intertwined, not too many mutual friends, and they can look at my life neutrally and vice versa?
I went on my scales today. I know that I’m thin but somehow the two kilos more irk me. No chocolate for me.
*”I feel best with friends”, not “either way”.
MJ,
“This is my favorite angry Joan clip.. If only my ex could have defended me like this to my in laws. I might still have a marriage today..”
Oh. Sorry. Were your in-laws not good to you?
Here is one of my favorite clips. From “The Women.” Joan plays the mistress in a confrontation scene with the wife.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/AywjCVG9mPs
“Oh. Sorry. Were your in-laws not good to you?”
@Marcia,
No they were judgemental and vindictive. They could’ve then and could still use some of that vitriolic Joan anger. I love it..
“Here is one of my favorite clips. From “The Women.””
Yeah that whole scene is good. She gets quite snarky and puts Ol’ Girl
in her place. She’s one ballsy Woman.
Mila,
“would you believe it, now I even searched for photos of LO on my phone to decide on his ass. I guess it’s an ok ass,really. Not flat, not too much, but not very perky either.”
So you have pictures of his butt? Now I’m really curious. How did you manage to get them? 🙂
” even physically I’m not necessarily attracted to the “usual” stuff like sixpacks, regular face features etc.”
I’m not, either. “Pretty” and “beefed up” don’t do much for me.
“or even just the possibility to have a deeper conversation when necessary.”
That’s exactly what I meant. I don’t need heavy, deep conversations every day, but sometimes it can be, “Hey, I ‘m having a shitty day. Can you talk?” And someone who not only listens but gives you feedback and knows you well enough (your backstory) to give you that feedback. And knows enough of the particulars of a situation you’re dealing with because you communicate frequently. That’s a totally different kind of friendship than catching up twice a year.
“I thought about it. I think I feel best either way friends I don’t see that often, but when we meet, it’s immediately all open talk, they instantly connect on a personal level. Maybe a bit of distance is good for that kind of connection? ”
Idk. I have a decent level of open communication with friends in general. Even if I haven’t seen them in a while, we talk about important topics, but if I see someone two times a year for a couple of hours with a handful of texts exchanged in between those visits … we’re just catching up with each other about your lives but they’re not really in my life. Not in the moments things are happening.
“I went on my scales today. I know that I’m thin but somehow the two kilos more irk me. No chocolate for me.”
One square of the Hu chocolate with cashew butter is 45 cals, 3.5 carbs. 🙂 It’s just a little treat.
I couldn’t tell what Joan Crawford said in that clip from The Women because they put that burst of loud music over the top of it. 😛
I don’t tend to go for “conventional” attractiveness, either. I mean, I might think they’re cute, but it doesn’t inspire crushes or limerence. I think I have to know a person somewhat first, interact with them.
My crushes/LO’s have been everything from tall and skinny to mid-range height and overweight to tall and HUGE. Their faces are attractive in some way, usually their eyes. I think that’s it—Their eyes do it. The guy can be very overweight but have gorgeous eyes and I’m smitten. 🙂
Most of them have also been geeky, into things like computers or D&D or British TV (or usually all of the above). It gives us something in common. But then there was my boss LO—nothing in common, but even at 60 he still has the cutest face and eyes. My current LO is almost 60 and overweight, and he was more of a jock than a geek, but he is friendly and has eyes like Harrison Ford’s and I’ve had a crush on him for almost 20 years.
Serial,
“I couldn’t tell what Joan Crawford said in that clip from The Women because they put that burst of loud music over the top of it. 😛”
She says if Stephen doesn’t like what she’s wearing, she takes it off! 🙂
“I don’t tend to go for “conventional” attractiveness, either. I mean, I might think they’re cute, but it doesn’t inspire crushes or limerence. ”
I’m the same way.
“he is friendly and has eyes like Harrison Ford’s and I’ve had a crush on him for almost 20 years.”
As a general rule, I’m not into much older, and he’s much older than me. And I find him crusty and borderline unpleasant. But I know a lot of women like him.
MJ,
“No they were judgmental and vindictive.”
That sounds difficult to have to deal/interact with.
“Yeah that whole scene is good. She gets quite snarky and puts Ol’ Girl
in her place.”
I was testing you to see if you’d seen some of her earlier films. You passed! You have! 🙂
“She’s one ballsy Woman.”
She is. Ballsy women secretly want a man to grab them by the balls and tell them to shut the hell up. 🙂
🌽 🌱,
👁️🗨️ 🔎 🎩 📝 ➡️ 🍅 👆🏼☀️❓ 🔍 , ⏳🍅 🉑 ✍️ ➡️ 🎩 ⏳…
🦜,
I have much catching up to do with your pictorial posts to me. I will get there, but time, life and work have got in the way. It takes me a lot lot more time and effort to decode emojis than to think in words. I do very much enjoy it but need real brain capacity to tackle it. Please be patient and I will get there!
And it really increases my empathy and respect for what this must usually feel like for you and other ESL speakers!
No big deal 🎩 !
I was just saying that I could not find your post to me this morning, about my LE1, so can’t respond it.
But I can summary it here in one sentence — it was a variation of “Romeo and Juliet” taking place at the wrong time at a wrong place for about 7-8 months; the societal barrier was unbreakable, but LO#1’ affection set up an ideal, almost unreachable bar for the later LOs — he was ready to fetch the moon for me if it was allowed…
Today, posts flooded for some reasons…🌊
Ah – makes sense now – both the content of your last message about LO1 (a high but ‘forbidden’ benchmark), and the emoji sequence above now that you’ve decoded it.
I’ll persist and get better at the emojis when I have the time to devote (love a puzzle), but I may have to ask you for more clarifications down the line.
Like I said, it gives me real insight about kind of learning a new language – basically, feeling like a child again despite how intuitive emojis really are if I get your mind in the right place. It might interest you that, partly as a result of that exchange, I’ve now been sounding out how I can take introductory lessons in your language locally. I don’t expect to ever get very good at it, but I’m so interested in starting to learn about how the symbols really work, as well as getting some basic vocabulary.
Typo – ‘get MY mind …’
Our 👨🌾 🌽 is studying 🦜’s native tongue… but 🦜 imitates any words, so who would be mimicking whom in the bar of Amoor Inn?
Now, with your newly mastered linguistic skills, could we loudly shout in LwL like ☝️👻🔝 🔁 ☝️ 👻🔝? (Not sure what language that 👻 “why” speaks) . 🦜❣️🗣️ 🌽 🚺💫 🅾️ ㊙️….
👁️ 💭 💡 👻 ✖️ 👻 🉐 👉👩🏻⚖️👩🏻⚖️s…. ⏳❔👁️🗨️ 🍨 🤲 ↔️ 🚜 🤳 4️⃣ 🤝 🫂 📲 🏰❔
Do “Romeo and Juliet”s ever happen at the right time or place? lol
Actually, Yes!
My 26 year old “Romeo” finally got engaged last Fall with his sweetheart since 13 or 14. The “Juliet’s” conservative parents are from my COO, and “Romeo” is from a” pile of 🥔 🥔 in Iowa; which existence is luckily too short for the two families to develop any feud…
Correction: “One of my ex-students, “Romeo”…
I’m struck ⚡️ again speechless 😳 again by Jung’s Synchronicity —
The post about my “Romeo” ex-student was on 11:59am LwL time; then at 19:57pm, almost 8 hours exactly, I got a text from “Romeo” who asked me to serve as his reference for his Bar exam in Iowa later this summer!
He’ll host his wedding next summer in a 🥔 field….
I still can’t believe this! 😳
🦜,
🗣️of 😈, indeed! 😅
In a 🥔 field?! Why that sounds like a very “Amoors” wedding! 🧊
😂 😂 🫂 🍨,
My “Romeo” exstudent’s story is totally true and he’s indeed getting married in Iowa but perhaps NOT in a 🥔 field (I’m invited).
🥔 🤞🚫 ↔️ 😈 📲 L’🅰️m🅾️🅾️r … 🆔 🉑 🧰 🥔 ↔️ 🥔.
🍨, 🦜
I think any Amoors wedding (and remember, the Inn can become anything we want it to be 🧊) would need to be a far classier affair than a romp in a🥔field, to satisfy our discerning clientele …
… unless The Welder was involved, of course. And he’d have to find a willing LwL bride … no takers yet …
🍨: 🕰️🤞👁️ 🫵 😈🚫 = 🥔 💠 L’🅰️m🅾️🅾️r 👀 , ⤴️ = synchronicity❗️ 😅
🧊 : 💍 💮 💠 L’🅰️m🅾️🅾️r 👀 ❔ 👁️🗨️ 🈶 👰♂️ R💗 🌞 👰🏻♀️ J❓
🫸 💍 🧧 💠 🌽/🥔 🏞️ ❗️
👨🏭 🫴 👻❔
👨🏼💼 🫴 👻 ❔
https://youtu.be/IYd1-cPwQCk?si=HOIvbPY02exsoO5l
50 Classical Music Masterpieces for Relaxation & the Soul | Beethoven, Mozart, Chopin, Bach, Vivaldi
🎶 🧘♀️
https://youtu.be/_-EzHJDKiCg?si=64bKqNys6TiccDWd
The Problem with Self-Help | The Authenticity Scam
https://youtu.be/m6SOJlkN1zU?si=3DYDsy0H7xAyP6ZR
Cozy Coffee Shop for Studying, Reading, Writing…
Move
Alicia Ostriker
1937 –
Whether it’s a turtle who drags herself
Slowly to the sandlot, where she digs
The sandy nest she was born to dig
And lay leathery eggs in, or whether it’s salmon
Rocketing upstream
Toward pools that call, Bring your eggs here
And nowhere else in the world, whether it is turtle-green
Ugliness and awkwardness, or the seething
Grace and gild of silky salmon, we
Are envious, our wishes speak out right here,
Thirsty for a destiny like theirs,
An absolute right choice
To end all choices. Is it memory,
We ask, is it a smell
They remember,
Or just what is it—some kind of blueprint
That makes them move, hot grain by grain,
Cold cascade above icy cascade,
Slipping through
Water’s fingers
A hundred miles
Inland from the easy, shiny sea?
And we also—in the company
Of our tribe
Or perhaps alone, like the turtle
On her wrinkled feet with the tapping nails—
We also are going to travel, we say let’s be
Oblivious to all, save
That we travel, and we say
When we reach the place we’ll know
We are in the right spot, somehow, like a breath
Entering a singer’s chest, that shapes itself
For the song that is to follow.
*****
In the right spot,
I am moving like a head-out, steady 🐌 , after
the Uranus suddenly hiccuped
the INFP dozed palace shook
the Hu’s chocolates showered
the LE cries of all colors danced off the edges
in the young green surging of the spring…
🐦🔥
14:14 3/27
https://youtu.be/0L38Z9hIi5s?feature=shared
A Rainy Day in 4K Cozy Coffee Shop
Probably not helpful but I’m four sheets to the wind working on getting to six and youtube throws these two at me back to back in a mix they made for me. Even youtube is against me!
Wouldn’t Have Missed It For the World — Ronnie Milsap
https://youtu.be/PGdbJ47j9tE?si=thpuoFoZhb-MDZr2
Back on My Mind — Ronnie Milsap
https://youtu.be/h3msdBaVCHo?si=Rt4e_GJkwtBZrzjz
Hi all. Needed your advise on something. I am generally feeling quite good after that sad LO related episode sometime back. However, earlier today, I was just scrolling through my social media, and LO’s post came up in my timeline. Looking at it, at that instant, I felt an array of emotions, mostly rush in adrenaline and anxiety. This whole thing threw me off balance. Do you think its a good idea to unfriend LO, or mute LO notifications? I would hate to stop using social media, just cause LO is in my friend list.
Having said that, I can notice a paradigm shift in myself. In the earlier days, such an episode would propel me to seek LO some way or another. Now, I want to do no such thing. Its more like I am frustrated that this whole episode happened.
Thanks for listening! Have a great weekend ahead.
Hi ABCD,
My view would be that blocking notifications is better. LO won’t know you’ve done that but you still won’t see her stuff. If you unfriend then she could know, and that could set up awkward future conversations either with you or your SO about why you unfriended. Sounds like the direction you’re headed in, you won’t need to have those awkward conversations, so best avoid anything that might trigger them?
Otherwise you sound good. I’m quite pleased to say I’m now getting towards the same ‘slowly recovering’ group as you and others, instead of being in the ‘deep in it’ stage. There is light on the other side of all this, right??
Thanks, LaR. For now, I just deleted the notifications. You are right about the potential complications that “unfriending” may cause, since we are all in the same circle. Plus, I do not think I need such a drastic step right now. I am doing fine, as such.
In addition, I am recently getting negative feelings regarding LO, like being angry at her or something. I don’t know, maybe I am going through the different stages of grief.
I am happy to note that you are also moving ahead in this. I can assure you that there is light on the other side, absolutely. I hope you get there very soon.
ABCD,
That sounds like a plan.
What is the negative feeling towards LO like, if you could describe it a bit more? Anger/negative feeling *about what*? Just wondered if thinking that through could help.
Yeah I can feel I am crawling towards the light but accept it is a process that can only happen at the speed it’s ready to. I am making good ‘exec brain’ choices now (eg minimising interactions as much as I can), where once I wasn’t. It feels sad in some ways but good in others.
@abcd
Yes I concur with LaR!
Personally yeah deleting notifications is key. Why don’t you experiment with that and see if it helps you get back into balance? You can always turn them back on later. Maybe just try it and observe how you feel?
Yep those little things can be super triggering. I put on the same color if socks as my LO used to wear sometimes, today and had to take them off bc I felt panic each time I looked at my feet…so. 😭😂
Hi LaR:
“I am making good ‘exec brain’ choices now (eg minimising interactions as much as I can), where once I wasn’t”.
Exactly, I am doing this too. My current policy is that I will not initiate or force an interaction. If it happens naturally, like at an event, its fine, that I cannot control anyway.
“It feels sad in some ways but good in others”.
Yes, I get what you are saying. For me, I am happy that I am getting out of this LE, its been a couple of years, but also sad as I probably miss the earlier interactions. But at the end, the bottom line is that this LE was causing me a lot of emotional turmoil, so I need to take proactive steps to get out of it.
“What is the negative feeling towards LO like, if you could describe it a bit more? Anger/negative feeling *about what*? Just wondered if thinking that through could help”.
Well, I’ll try. I guess I may be angry because I feel LO is ghosting me. To be fair, I am doing the same. I am trying not to over think this, as in the past, my theories have fallen flat on my face!
Thanks for this ABCD. I am inspired by your strength to dig out of the turmoil.
I’m guessing here, but I reckon if LO is semi-ghosting you, it could well be for the same reasons you are semi-ghosting her. You both know it makes sense, even if it’s sad. I try not to always assume that what applies to my LE applies to others too, but I think something similar (not a ghosting but a firm easing off/cooling down) is happening on both sides of mine, with our brains a bit in sync about why it’s happening. Working with this idea is helping me reduce any negative feeling I have towards her or the situation (hardly any) – I just keep telling myself things like “it makes sense, even if it does feel a bit sad, and her/my reasons for it are good for both of us and nothing personal”. I wonder if you can try and channel thinking in a similar way. Then again, if you need to feel angry in private also totally OK for a while!
Hi LaR. Thanks for your comments. Yes what you said could be true that we’re both trying to cut this LE off. Since we both have SOs this is the right thing to do for both of us. That we need to focus on our SOs. I have a good feeling about thinking like this.
Hi @ABCD, I am feeling exactly the same. My LO is ghosting me after a work disagreement on Monday. I have deleted her number yet I still feel very conflicted.
Hi JM&MO. I get what you are saying. For me, I am mostly doing decent in getting over her, we are on social media, so last time I saw something there I got anxious. Feeling better now.
In the past, I have deleted her number when I thought she was angry with me, only to add it back when she interacted warmly. This cycle went on a few times. I do recall that the times I Deleted the number, I felt good, like I had some power. Do you have some clarity now regarding what to do? Thanks.
Happy Friday all.
I’m at a stage now where I’m starting to realise just how bad for me this LE is. My whole happiness is consumed by how my LO responds to me, but it’s affecting all aspects of my life now, and I just can’t live like this anymore.
I know with all my heart that I have to go NC, and the thought of that alone is sending me into a spiral.
I was hoping that maybe some of you could share your experiences in going NC with your LO’s, especially if your LO was also giving you signals that they wanted something more. Did you explain to them you were going to cut contact? Or did you just rip the bandage off and do it.
Thank you.
Hi Cat,
I‘m sorry I can’t help you there, I never went complete NC. It’s not for me and for the nature of my LEs. I hope someone else can let you benefit from their experience. And maybe you can listen to your gut feeling, usually we know what is best, of what we are capable and with which solution we’ll feel best afterwards, somewhere deep inside.
Hi Cat,
I also am not best one to give advice due to my lack of ability to go beyond LC.
There is a lot of chat on the latest Coffeehouse on this topic which maybe helpful.
CSC is going full block. This was her comment to me, if helpful :- https://livingwithlimerence.com/coffeehouse-preorder-bonuses-for-smitten/#comment-95515
As Mila says every situation is different and you will probably deep down know best.
However, I guess explaining why you are going NC is some form of disclosure. you need to be ok with doing that, when you look back in the future that you didn’t give too much of yourself away.
Also it makes it difficult if circumstances change.
I hope you get more inputs. Best wishes.
My LO transferred to our warehouse operation next door, so in my case it was really NC by default. This was extremely hard to wrap my brain around when it happened. I was major depressed and in tears for almost 6-9 months..
oops @cat I replied but i think it went down below – wanted to make sure you saw. 🙂
Hi @cat. My story is a long one, but essentially m LO ghosted me after an argument at work on Monday. I finally got around to deleting her number on Wednesday, after which she decided to send me a purely work/ related Whattsapp message on Thursday. I have decided that the “bandage off” approach is the only way I can take control of my life back. It hurts so bad, and yet….
I really hope that you find your peace. Do keep me posted.
Hi Justme,
Sounds like you are doing amazingly well. I guess having this community helps.
Hard to confide in family/friends who you know wouldn’t understand.
I’m lucky in the sense that my LO is in another country and we only talk in once place, so I’m confident if I blocked them they couldn’t contact me, but that’s also part of the barrier as to doing it in the first place…
Hi Cat. I am pretty much NC now with my LO. It just happened organically, we have not been interacting. She just kind of disappeared and is keeping a low profile. I can say that for me, this NC has worked well for me. I did feel sad at first, but I know this is what I need to do — to move on. Not getting exposure to LO has lead to more stabilisation on my thoughts and sanity.
Regarding giving signals, she gave many earlier, but that was a while ago. I guess I did the same as well. But we both know it’s not happening, so it’s best not to move on. It seems to me that she is moving on, and I am trying to do the same.
Overall, I am feeling much better because of the NC. Hope this helps.
Hi @cat
Thanks for the shoutout @imho it means a lot you would do that! Yes, myself, and @JustMe are as far as I know…in pretty stark NC. We’ve been trading notes here this week. I’m sorry for what you’re going through. I understand it. I know the feeling of waiting, hingeing your very self on some other person’s actions. It’s hard to face it has happened. I know.
My latest LE was a year long, much more severe than priors. It was agony for about 6 months. I tried going physically NC but he would still reach out to me, on phone or social, even if I did not reach out to him. I won’t go into particulars on his behavior but I’ll just say it became clear to me after a little while of his hot/cold push/pull weirdness…I had to do a total block, cut contact totally. Physically and digitally.
I gave no no indication. I deleted his name from my contacts, I deleted all of our chats and all our communications, then entered his number into blocked numbers. Muted him on social (I didn’t block him there because it would be obvious I had blocked.) I did give it thought beforehand as to what steps I needed to take to make it happen. My goal was to cut contact, but not to have him know. But, to have it done.
I gave no goodbye. I took a good look at myself and saw I was completely spent. I had to pull off the bandage as you put it. I guess I felt too weakened to do anything but Cold Turkey.
If he reaches out now, I will not know. But, he will not know I didn’t get the message. He’ll just have to wonder, or not, feel bad, or not. It’s out of my hands. What is in my hands, now, is my time and my integrity. That being said, I am going to be very sad for a while.
I can’t recall, but is your LO in another country? I’m sorry if I’m not remembering that correctly.
I’ll be interested to see what you think about the replies you receive here, today.
x
csc
As @csc has said, we are of the same ilk. I have done the same thing. It had to stop. The games, the uncertainty, being on the end of her yo-yo string; I can’t do it anymore. My life feels empty yet liberated. Hope that brings you some knowledge and solace x we are with you x
@justme
I am proud of both of us this week, and grateful for your focus and endurance from within your own battle. Thank you. I plan to stay strong. We have come far. Guess what?…I have not cried *at all* today or yesterday. (!!!)
Of course, I have still felt sad/doubt etc., but…no more yo-yo whiplash…whew. re: emptiness, same: I have noticed there is so much room in my head now. Truly weird. The vaccuum that had been filled with waaaay too much LO, LO related content, LO ruminations…
i will likely check in here over the weekend, i will need to. i need to maintain!
…i too heard a beautiful quote, you may enjoy…
“S/he does not burn bridges, she detonates them.” hahah I’m running with that one
x
csc
@csc: No, thank you. We’ve had a hell of a week, eh? Thank you for being there this week, it’s meant so much. And yeah, I’m proud of us too!
Well done on the non-crying, but let’s remember that if/when it happens, we’re grieving. Nothing less. And, like any grief the mind wants to keep filling itself with the ruminations – as you say in this case LO this, LO that.
This has become my support network. ATM I can’t possibly not be checking back … ha ha…! I’ll keep my eyes peeled for your updates.
That quote is brilliant! It’s getting screenshot-ed!!
Speak soon
JM x
Good job CSC. I hope the cut in contact helps you in terms of better mood and feeling better. It has worked for me, and I hope it works well for you too. It may be hard at first, but keep going. All the best!
While Writing
Noelle Kocot
Someone inside says, “Get busy.”
But I’ve got appointments to keep,
I have an abstemious love of equations calculated quickly
While the tepid day melts into design.
And the high cheekbones of the beautiful life
Bear the loose look of a calendar by lamplight.
I search for patterns in everything.
I am tied in knots of comprehension.
I think, how useful it might be
To pierce all the hands of the earth
With an oath of pins encircling snarling planets
But talent and shallowness sewn together
Is nothing but a kerchief tied around a survivalist’s head,
And it helps to know the feet wriggling through a hole
In the universe will land for an instant
Upon the cushions of the dark,
And that after marching one doozy of a kilometer after another,
We each come upon the same poem scribbled in invisible ink
Taped to the door of a room
In which an austere justice is burning for us.
******
it helps to know the feet wriggling through a rabbit hole
Of limerence will land sometimes
Upon the cushions of the synced comprehension,
And that after stumbling one doozy of an inch after another ,
We each come upon the same poem scribbled in feverish ink
Taped to the door of our limerence lamenting
In which an authentic loving connection
might be eventually burning for us.
🐦🔥
22:06 3️⃣ 🈷️ 2️⃣🎱 🌞
It helps to know the feet wriggling through the rabbit hole
of limerence will land sometimes
upon the cushions of the synced comprehension,
And that after stumbling one doozy of an inch after another,
we each come upon the same poem scribbled in feverish ink
taped to the door of our lamenting in LwL
in which a touchable, renewable love
might be connecting, healing broken us.
It helps to know the feet wriggling through the rabbit hole
of limerence will land sometimes
upon the cushions of the synced comprehension,
And that after stumbling one doozy of an inch after another,
we each come upon the same poem scribbled in feverish ink
taped to the door of limerence lamenting
in which touchable, renewable love
might be connecting, healing broken hearts.
🐦🔥
It helps to know the feet wriggling through the rabbit hole
of limerence will land sometimes
upon the cushions of synchronized comprehension,
And that after stumbling one doozy of an inch after another,
we each come upon the same poem scribbled in bleeding ink
soaked in the field of limerence battling
in which touchable, renewable love
can connect and heal sickened lamenting hearts.
🐦🔥
The Things I Love
Scottie McKenzie Frasier
A butterfly dancing in the sunlight,
A bird singing to his mate,
The whispering pines,
The restless sea,
The gigantic mountains,
A stately tree,
The rain upon the roof,
The sun at early dawn,
A boy with rod and hook,
The babble of a shady brook,
A woman with her smiling babe,
A man whose eyes are kind and wise,
Youth that is eager and unafraid—
When all is said, I do love best
A little home where love abides,
And where there’s kindness, peace, and rest.
Wow. That has moved me so much. You guys are killing me 🥰🥰. Here for you 🍅 x
🙏 🤝 🪷
Hi csc,
Thank you so much for your response. Yes he is in another country, although we are both in Europe.
I do enjoy having him in my life right now, although yesterday was one of those days were I felt a slight pull away and that’s what sent me spiraling.
The reason that I deep down know I need to go NC is because I am also married…. I have been completely honest with my husband about how I feel about him, but obviously I haven’t told him about LO. I don’t know if my marriage is reparable, but if I’m going to attempt to try then NC is the only way.
I only talk to LO on one platform so I know I could just block them and uninstall. It’s just actually being able to do it…
Cat
Dear @cat
I hope you don’t mind me including myself in this conversation, but reading about your SO, I felt compelled to.
About 20 years ago, I was in a similar position with another (of a few!) LOs. SO and I were ok, but only ok. I worried that my LE was driving a wedge between us, so I decided to tell her. I didn’t of course know a thing about L at the time (I didn’t 2 weeks ago!). So I told her. It didn’t go well. She thought that LO and I had had a PA (we hadn’t), and even today it’s a subject that’s avoided.
I guess what I’m trying to say is, that if your marriage is in difficulty, then telling your SO is likely to firmly push it one way or the other. SO and I are absolutely fine now, although she’s figured out that something has gotten to me of late (current LE/LO), but there is no way that I would ever tell her about LEs ever again – and there have been a couple in the intervening years.
Of course, this all depends on how you feel that your SO would take it, and I suspect from what you’ve said that you’re not planning to at this stage, but from my experience keeping this under the surface at this point may serve you until such time that you feel this wouldn’t further complicate things.
This is bound to be at odds with what others would say – just MY pennys worth.
I hope I haven’t overstepped the mark, and I wish you luck. Hope you keep us posted x
JM
JM,
I’d basically agree with what you’re saying to Cat, as I’ve been discussing with others here this week. It depends on the character of the SO a fair bit. Working with views from SOs who have posted on here before, several say they’d just want the truth, others say it is not worth causing them the hurt if you can get it under control enough yourself. An SO who suspects and wants answers will probably challenge their partner. Until they and we understand limerence, it is hard to separate it in an SO’s mind from suspicion of a PA or the limerent wishing for one (which it most often isn’t).
Solidarity to you for the strong decision to block your LO’s number btw. I know I was questioning it at the time but you seem to have strong conviction (and CSC as cheerleader) that you’ve made the right decision for you. Keep strong.
@LaR Thank you so much, that really means a lot. I truly valued yours and @Bewitched thoughts – I think it’s just that @csc and I are at similar stages and appear to have similar responses that it just resonated with me. We’re all different, and different things will work for us.
The silence is slightly less deafening today, but it’s still hurting. However, my resolve is absolute . I’m done, and the sooner I realise that her actions and reactions are neither my problem, responsibility or within my control, the happier that my life – and , unwittingly, that of my SO – will be.
I really enjoy, and value your input and support. You are definitely one of my “go-to’s@. Thank you for being there.
Justme,
Something I have found really great about LwL is how you get a range of opinions and ideas to pick from. You’re quite right, different things do work for different people and we often know ourselves the best.
Some people on here have unpicked their LEs in a very slow way – I’d count me, Mila, Bewitched, Snow, ABCD and Speedwagon among them (sorry to those I may have missed).
Many others have had or opted to take a more nuclear option of disclose, and/or NC. I’ll be interested in hearing how yours and CSC’s firm blocks play out.
NC for me just couldn’t happen because of work anyway.
You said you think SO has sussed something is up. How do you protect her from it? I have struggled with this side though am way past the worst of that now. The lim-brain is quite obviously preoccupied a lot of the time so I found it could be hard to be around SO and be ‘normal’, and what to say when I wasn’t.
Justme… I fully support the avoid, block, NC action if your resolve is there. I think the sooner you can move on from LO the better.
If I could go NC I would but unfortunately I manage LO so I have to interact with her. But these days I only interact with her on a work necessary basis meaning I talk to her when I need to manage her and only about the thing she is working on. Literally that is it. I don’t even stray into extraneous other work talk and I never stray into personal talk. Not even basic chit chat like “how was your weekend”? I could not tell you anything about my LOs recent life goings on.
This is awkward at times because my normal demeanor is fairly outgoing and chatty and I will talk up all sorts of things with my other people. I’m sure LO notices but I don’t really care. I don’t owe her friendship. When it comes to actual work I treat her cordial and equal but that is where my relationship with her ends. And as far as I can tell she seems indifferent to it. I’m sure she notices I treat her different but I seriously can’t tell if it bothers her at all. She seems fine with it.
For me, emotionally, this gives me power back. I dictate our relationship. I seem to function best this way and it keeps me emotionally stable. I still get waves of missing her and desiring her and feeling sad about it all but I will take that over engaging with her, then ruminating endlessly about all our interactions and what my next interaction will be and ultimately the big let down when it doesn’t play out to my liking.
Speedwagon
Thanks so much. The endorsement is important. I really feel for you, as your situation at work is more complicated than mine – although in my previous LE I was in pretty much exactly the same situation. You have my respect and admiration because I know how tough it is, and to have to divert from the normal “you”must be very difficult and tiring.
As previously explained, LC wasn’t really working. Our disagreement on Monday has just made the process “easier” (but not in a way) and so, as @csc puts it, I’ve really had to rip the bandage off.
I’m constantly fighting LE brain: does she care? Yes/no? etc, etc. As you’ve said, it’s not my problem. Her thoughts and actions are hers. For my sanity and wellbeing, it has to stop. I sound really resolved, but you know there’s a catch….
Hi cat,
Our situations sound very similar in that we probably both were not happy with our SOs prior to the limits and there are some big questions around those relationships.
My LO is local but I like you found that I could make a very clean break if I wanted to. Something quite final…
I too was at a point where I felt on balance that I was happy having lo in my life I felt that he was bringing me a kind of joy that I had missed dearly in my life. He was teaching me to remember a part of myself that I had suppressed… A part that clearly did not want to be suppressed any longer.
But that fun and lively point passed. And I began to experience what you are experiencing which is the feeling of the ups and downs, the feeling of so much anxiety and even sadness. I began to feel very depleted. My self-esteem began to hinge on lo and how he reacted or responded to me or didn’t react or respond to me. He occupied my thoughts constantly to the point where there was nothing left for me or for the activities that I should have been enjoying. Everything began to orbit around him.
That is why when I felt it was needed I took that opportunity to cut contact. I really didn’t want to cut contact I still wish l o was in my life. But I cannot have a life and I cannot truly move on in my life (no matter what that looks like or what that will look like) with LO in the picture.. It is not his fault. I am just powerless when it comes to him. He brings out a lot of things that I love about myself. But the rest of my life falls apart. That is too steep a price to pay, even if my heart has to break.
I hope that you will share more about this. It’s very very important to have support and not to feel alone and to take limerence seriously. It can be very difficult and very destructive. I hope to hear more about your situation and how you are faring and what you are thinking about it. Please know this is a very supportive space and many limerents take different paths. This stark no contact was mine.
I will say that when I made the choice to go no contact it had nothing to do with my significant other at that point I was really trying to salvage my sanity. I am going to give myself some time to recover before I then address what is going on in my primary relationship.
Hugs
csc
Oops cat
Limits should read LEs ♥️
Hi csc to cat. I am taking the liberty of responding to you, as your earlier comment about voluntarily going NC resonated with me. You have put it well. It boils down to making an informed decision, and then acting on it – how LO makes one feel versus the actual costs of engaging with LO. In the end, though its a tough decision, there is one way to go – break away from LO. I am trying to do the same, and I suspect she is too.
I am feeling a lot better now. Probably the lack of validation from her has helped to dim the LE fire that was burning inside me. Perhaps my primary relation with my SO is stronger now. Perhaps my new hobbies are keeping me feeling good. All in all, I feel I have come out of the depression that this LE was causing.
Wishing you all the very best, csc to cat.
LaR: My SO is used to me having mood dips, it’s something that I’ve had my whole life, so luckily I’ve been able to disguise this LE under that camouflage. She knows that I’m never really great at talking about me anyway so never pushes it unless she can see that there’s something really wrong. She has had her own things to deal with recently so I think she’s maybe not picked up on the depth of my mood as she would normally do.
Glad that you feel that you’re through the worst of it. It’s good to be reminded that there is life on the other side.
@justme
I just got back from a nice social outing this morning…it was good to see friends and to laugh. SO was not there, he doesn’t like the group stuff. I felt very at peace and had fun outside. It was not the high-octane rocket fuel snorting lines off the glistening hood of the LE rollercoaster fun of LO, but, it was still fun, and I did a lot of chatting and laughing which felt good. Friends seemed glad to see me. That means so much to me right now, when I feel I have messed up in my life, so badly.
I wanted to say hi and I hope your Saturday is going well. It seems you’re doing ok from the stuff I’ve read here? It seems you’re maintaining…I am glad. I know it’s hard, and so very weird. I am thinking of you. For me, weekends can be very difficult as I am home with SO, and trying to appear “normal”. Ha. Nothing to see here! Just a total inner meltdown… 🙂
I think I will bake some cookies, and do some chores. I’ll just keep busy. A bike ride may be in order. I will get through today. My goal, today is to think self-compassionate thoughts whenever I get a tinge of the doubt cycle starting up, or any ruminative pining creeping in.
Hugs
csc
Ps. Hi LaR 🙂 thank you for being so amazing. You are amazing, you know that right???
@csc. Hi! Great to hear you’ve had some fun. Sounds like you’ve taken the purposeful living stuff and run with it. Good for you.
However: “when I feel I have messed up in my life, so badly.” it’s breaking my heart to hear you (and anyone else here) say that about yourself. Why is it always us who are messing up? Oh, believe me, I know exactly what you’re saying. The number of times I’m having to force myself to stop thinking “you loser. How could you do this to SO, or to X,Y, Z. ??”We forget, I think, that we are gripped by something that – regardless of the neuroscience or other – that we have no or little control over.
And so, to your statement, I’d challenge it and say: oh really? A mess? If you’re making such a mess, how have you achieved what you have in only the short time I’ve been lucky enough to know your story? This week alone you have inspired me and many others. No my friend, that’s not someone who is making a mess, that’s someone who is busting her bloody ass to put it right. Lecture over 😊🤗
My Saturday has been ok thank you. I’ve tried to keep busy and the self chat is all about why I’ve gone NC and blocked (Ra Ra Ra!!) gas green if anything a little vitriolic towards LOP. I’m not proud of having to, and I am still missing that ping – but as each day goes by I know that I will get stronger, and miss her and it less.
Happy baking, and enjoy your Saturday. Thank you for getting me through this week. I’ll keep checking back
Hugs x
JM&MO
@csc “gas green”?? I did of course mean “has been”!
PS: @LaR: @csc is spot on!
@justme
Sir, thank you for this very kind and supportive note. I am sliding this afternoon and evening, doubting, and longing and pining and feeling maudlin.
I have to try and let this sadness move through me…
Because I sure as hell am not reaching out or unblocking him!
No!!! I have come this far, it is to my mind, impossible to go back. The only thing that could happen is to run into him on the street, and that would be up to the Gods. But I, personally, will not be going back, no matter how much I wish I could.
I appreciate your care and encouragement more than I can express. I hope your day has not been too draining, and just think…how much we have to look forward to, even if getting there is fraught.
Thank you, friend. I am one lucky L. 🙂
csc
CSC, Justme,
Thanks both of you 😊
And yeah, I try to know it 🎩
You’re doing a grand job helping each other. I feel inspired by goings on in this LWL world lately … helps to keep my momentum going to see others making progress.
Hi csc,
Thank you so much for sharing that. There really is a lot of similarities in our experiences.
I can completely understand why limeremce is compared to an addiction. The way I feel during the highs is like I’m actually enjoying life again, I’m happy and I’m having a nice time. I remember what it was like to be carefree to have freedom. I smile.
But then the lows… The constant anxiety, the brain fog, being snappy and irritable.
Sometimes I think LO genuinely likes me and would want to be with me if he could. Other times I think he is doing this for his ego, because he knows nothing will ever come into fruition and it makes him feel good.
I feel like if I do NC I will have to try so hard not to resent my SO for it. I know rationally that it’s not his fault, but it’s so hard to think straight when we are in this state.
Have a peaceful Sunday, Cat.
Morning @csc, @LaR and @cat. Well, my mood has slipped this morning a little. As has my resolve. But like csc, I am not going back. I can’t. I still have a huge journey ahead of me, I cannot bear the thought of having to redo the side street I’m still on.
I genuinely feel this morning that LO doesn’t care, and never did. That it was all what she got out of it (attention, comfort, males orbiting her, etc) but the feeling that I gave so much – well it’s sadly familiar. Maybe I’m wrong, maybe she did care at least in a friend’s way. I’ll never know.
I’m so proud of you/us all. Have a peaceful Sunday xx
JM&MO
Good morning justme.
Yes, I imagine that the road to recovery will be filled with ups and downs.
I guess we can never know what another’s intentions genuinely are, they might not even know that themselves.
Well done for remaining strong. I hope it’s bringing you some peace at least.
Cat
Hi Cat,
“I feel like if I do NC I will have to try so hard not to resent my SO for it. I know rationally that it’s not his fault, but it’s so hard to think straight when we are in this state.”
I feel like even the fact you’ve got that on an intellectual level is really good thing – even if the feelings will take time to catch up. Knowing it allows you to ‘check yourself’ and take actions to manage it.
No two LEs or the reason we get into them are the same. There may be ways in which the SO has contributed to it starting, or – much more likely – the way in which the dynamic or life circumstances of the limerent, or between the limerent and their SO, contributed.
I think what I’m about to say from my own example is true for many limerents. Once I’d veered into the LE, I had a hard job justifying to myself some of my actions (the way I let myself be drawn to LO, how much I thought about her, my priorities). It left a lot of cognitive dissonance. At this point DrL and other commenters have noted that we can’t help but devalue the SO and re-write some history of the relationship, as that’s the only way we can make our jagged story make sense and sleep at night. I was guilty of this – even if I didn’t think I was.
The different bits above can be hard to tease apart once you’re ‘in’ – so that’s maybe a good place to start.
Hi LaR,
Yes I am greatful that there is still a little rational part of me that is still in my head and can see that.
It’s hard when your brain rewrites this history in your head, especially as I know that the struggles I am having with my SO are real. It’s just all the good times that I am struggling to remember. I guess this is part to do with me excusing the fact that I am flirting heavily with boundaries of being a decent wife.
I feel like I am making progress by at least acknowledging these thoughts, but I get drawn back in by LO so easily still.
Cat
Hi Cat,
I’m so glad you saw everyone’s replies, mine included.
I know, it is all very, very messy. It is an addiction, in my layperson’s/common sense opinion. Yes, I think I recognize some of my own battles from what you’re describing….(also, I had in the past, a horrific LE that was long distance like yours, and it was so destructive I was never the same…that was before I learned the term limerence or maybe I could’ve helped myself more than I did when I finally got out of it.)
I know there is a lot of talk about people demonizing the LO, or the SO, and how wrong that is. But, if one is trying to help yourself out of an increasingly desperate situation, which you are, it is a phase, it is likely not something you want to, or will, permanently linger in. Some might even say it’s a stage of grief, the anger stage.
If you feel those feelings, and express them here, personally, I am all for it. Many have done it. Most of us understand it’s part of coming to terms with the process of removing the LO from your life.
I resented SO for a long time. There were days I wished he’d just evaporate.
I also felt (and still feel) that my LO’s ego got a big boost from me. I don’t think he was predatory, I allowed it to happen, and he got a little hooked on my generosity. It can be true…LO can be using you…and you can be using him.
And it can be true that conditions with SO created the conditions for LE / LO. Long term relationships are a two way street for sure.
Unfortunately, it seems it’s all true. That, for me is one of the hardest things. It’s so overwhelming. And all that overwhelm made it hard to navigate and take any action.
That being said, if you are at a point where this is very painful, and you are losing your functional self down the hole, maybe consider accepting that you will feel some ugly things, and express some ugly things, in order to get to the next place with this, so you can screw your head back on and move forward.
I’m not saying you need to do that – it’s up to you, and I have no judgement on whether one remains in limerence. But from what you’ve said, remaining is getting to you. I have been there, you’re not imagining it.
It’s so hard, yes. But, you are here, and people do understand. I personally have used this forum and at times felt so selfish about it. But, when one gets more clarity, one turns around and helps the others, it’s a cycle that repeats….and a very good, healthy one.
with care, csc
Oops @cat and I also wanted to say, you may be surprised how you feel if you go NC. You may not feel the way you think you will. You may find, ZAP! Your executive brain says “Hi! I’m still here!” That may not last long, but it is real. Even if momentary. Your executive brain is still back there somewhere.
I thought I was going to feel completely different than I did after the moment I went totally NC. Yes, it was very, very intense and not exactly pleasant, and after about a couple days, heavy withdrawal set in and it’s horrible. But, the moment I did the block, I felt…free. I felt totally back in integrity. I was no longer a liar, no longer helpless, no longer stuck. My brain recognized decisive action. It was fortifying.
Is there any way you could experiment with NC? For instance, log off and delete whatever gaming platform…taking a day to feel what that’s like – to allow yourself to breathe, knowing you are protected by that action…and then if you really feel you need to, you can always re-install?
Is that a possibility? Just trying to give you a bubble of clear air to come up in, here. If only momentarily.
hugs
csc
Hi csc,
So much of what you write is exactly how I feel. That alone is extremely comforting as I often think that I have just lost complete grip on all reality.
I imagine if a friend had come to me with my experience and what my response would be to them and I know that without experiencing limerence I would likely be judging them to some extent. So to be able to have this forum is invaluable.
I am really grateful for everyone’s advice and experiences.
I have decided that I am going to write LO a letter saying goodbye. I haven’t decided if I will actually send it to them or not yet. I guess I will see how I feel once I have put my words down on paper.
Hello Cat,
Recommend you read this blog ( if not already)
https://livingwithlimerence.com/coffeehouse-should-you-write-a-letter-to-lo/
Another synchronicity just landed in my 📧 box —
******
Self and Life
George Eliot
SELF.
Changeful comrade, Life of mine,
Before we two must part,
I will tell thee, thou shalt say,
What thou hast been and art.
Ere I lose my hold of thee
Justify thyself to me.
LIFE.
I was thy warmth upon thy mother’s knee
When light and love within her eyes were one;
We laughed together by the laurel-tree,
Culling warm daisies ’neath the sloping sun;
We heard the chickens’ lazy croon,
Where the trellised woodbines grew,
And all the summer afternoon
Mystic gladness o’er thee threw.
Was it person? Was it thing?
Was it touch or whispering?
It was bliss and it was I:
Bliss was that thou knew’st me by.
SELF.
Soon I knew thee more by Fear
And sense of what was not,
Haunting all I held most dear;
I had a double lot:
Ardor, cheated with alloy,
Wept the more for dreams of joy.
LIFE.
Remember how thy ardor’s magic sense
Made poor things rich to thee and small things great;
How hearth and garden, field and bushy fence,
Were thy own eager love incorporate;
And how the solemn, splendid Past
O’er thy early widened earth
Made grandeur, as on sunset cast
Dark elms near take mighty girth.
Hands and feet were tiny still
When we knew the historic thrill,
Breathed deep breath in heroes dead,
Tasted the immortals’ bread.
SELF.
Seeing what I might have been
Reproved the thing I was,
Smoke on heaven’s clearest sheen,
The speck within the rose.
By revered ones’ frailties stung
Reverence was with anguish wrung.
LIFE.
But all thy anguish and thy discontent
Was growth of mine, the elemental strife
Toward feeling manifold with vision blent
To wider thought: I was no vulgar life
That, like the water-mirrored ape,
Not discerns the thing it sees,
Nor knows its own in others’ shape,
Railing, scorning, at its ease.
Half man’s truth must hidden lie
If unlit by Sorrow’s eye.
I by Sorrow wrought in thee
Willing pain of ministry.
SELF.
Slowly was the lesson taught
Through passion, error, care;
Insight was the loathing fraught
And effort with despair.
Written on the wall I saw
“Bow!” I knew, not loved, the law.
LIFE.
But then I brought a love that wrote within
The law of gratitude, and made thy heart
Beat to the heavenly tune of seraphim
Whose only joy in having is, to impart:
Till thou, poor Self—despite thy ire,
Wrestling ’gainst my mingled share,
Thy faults, hard falls, and vain desire
Still to be what others were—
Filled, o’erflowed with tenderness
Seeming more as thou wert less,
Knew me through that anguish past
As a fellowship more vast.
SELF.
Yea, I embrace thee, changeful Life!
Far-sent, unchosen mate!
Self and thou, no more at strife,
Shall wed in hallowed state.
Willing spousals now shall prove
Life is justified by love.
****
💕 What spousals! 💗
A view of 🐦🔥— https://youtu.be/AUARjexCTlQ?si=m1tf_E8irplupsZD — Dimash — SOS | 2021
Dimash — Angel Love | 2024 https://youtu.be/wrkXbGeL2Ww?si=AjghqSI0RkV1hXDK
@Speedwagon, good job on not using the fact that you are your LO’s supervisor in an abusive way. It would be easy to exploit them in many ways with that power differential.
Spring Song
Dorothy Parker
(In the Expected Manner)
Enter April, laughingly,
Blossoms in her tumbled hair,
High of heart, and fancy-free—
When was maiden half so fair?
Bright her eyes with easy tears,
Wanton-sweet, her smiles for men.
“Winter’s gone,” she cries, “and here’s Spring again.”
When we loved, ’twas April, too;
Madcap April—urged us on.
Just as she did, so did you—
Sighed, and smiled, and then were gone.
How she plied her pretty arts,
How she laughed and sparkled then!
April, make love in our hearts
Spring again!
******
It is mostly in unexpected manner for a bird, 🐦🔥
April
Sally Van Doren
I chart the psyche,
observing how I
force myself to speak
to you, imagining that
together we might
transform a life.
Why this need
to document change,
to reverse a mood,
to carry forward the time
when magnolias bloom?
Let’s follow the itinerant we
up and over the jonquil’s back,
treading on its spilled bullion.
*****
Let me file tax first❗️
Why can’t they spare the magnificently humanized 🐦🔥 of such a human duty❓
⚠️ WARNING: Don’t open the link if you can’t stand Opera —
https://youtu.be/jpZA_8EmLR8?si=ouiTdX360MWbLJWA — Opera 2
Have to let Dimash scream for the “excruciating” pain of an April fool — paying over 6K tax in one go! 🩸 🩸 🩸
Well, after a rocky past month between us, I was friend-dumped by LO today. She said it was mostly because I’m too overbearing, just “too much,” and she needs more space for herself. I wasn’t so surprised as she has been very difficult the past few weeks, often brushing me aside, saying she’s too busy to talk etc. I find it ironic because I had noticed our one-sided our friendship was becoming – me always checking in on her, but not her asking about me, etc. – and now I feel like I’m being punished for caring too much. I know the pain will go away, but right now it HURTS – and I told her that. I said that if anything I did made you uncomfortable, I’m sorry, but you know that was never my intention, whereas she had done things that I said were hurting me and didn’t really respond to them. It might sound like “Why do I even care about this person?” but limerence, or something, keeps me interested. I guess there were components of our friendship that I thought were beautiful. In my ideal fantasy, likely she would all of a sudden realize “OMG, J, you ARE the best friend ever! How could I have been so stupid?! Please take me back as your friend, I won’t place any conditions on it and I’ll laugh at all your witty comments and worship the ground you walk upon, etc.” Or, if that doesn’t happen, since we work at the same place, maybe I’ll give her a harsh look or something, and she’ll burst into tears, see the error of her ways, come to her senses, etc. I’ve never been friend-dumped before and so it’s a new emotional path to navigate. It definitely feels like heartbreak, I feel the tears as I write this.
Hey J,
Sorry to hear about your LO going cold on you. Its a tough pill to swallow, for sure. This is any I often suggest limerents taking control and going LC/NC themselves, as I imagine its just excruciating when they do it.
If I could make one suggestion? Accept her decision without rancour, if you can. She is a work colleague, so remaining as neutral as possible over all of this (at least outwardly) is a good idea over the coming minutes, hours, days. Inward feeling might even follow suit in due course when your feelings calm. For your own sake, trying to do the right thing at work is critical at this point – even for the selfish reasons of maintaining your dignity and self-respect at work. The last thing you want is her making a complaint of something quasi official – it’s probably unlikely but who knows?
I don’t actually think that any of this is necessarily her fault, either, so it would be unfair to blame her. Think about tit this way – if someone else at work was a bit unresponsive (emotionally or relationally), would you blame them? No you would not. You’d probably just shrug it off as them having a bad day. Limerence can make us needy and annoying to LO, putting way too much pressure on them and making them feel like every little detail is some big thing. I think it might be helpful to really try to see things from her point of view and be as neutral as possible, putting hurt feelings aside (I know its hard). To get through this period, I hope that you can try a little distraction and take yourself away from all LO triggers (I know its hard). You mentioned before that you are seeing a therapist, so hopefully you can thrash things out with her as well?
Wishing you luck today.
Hi Bewitched, thanks for your post. You wrote “Think about tit this way – if someone else at work was a bit unresponsive (emotionally or relationally), would you blame them? No you would no.” But this is not just a bit, this is me having been supportive of her and her shutting me out for I-don’t-really-know-why. Is it best to go LC/NC? (That seems to be her path) My head tells me yes but my heart hurts so much at that idea. Is this friendship/relationship really just dead and not worth trying to revive?
Hi J,
The problem is that she gets a choice too – no matter how supportive you’ve been – and her choice right now is that its all “too much and she needs more space for herself”. Your description of the lead-up to this announcement reads as though, as she started to withdraw, you had maybe been trying even harder than usual?
My experience is that, once someone starts to withdraw, that needs to play itself out. If they’ve had enough of your dynamic, its important to allow them some space.
Why not just give it a break with LO for now? Ultimately, the intensity probably needs to go down before you can consider re-engaging her. And that may take a long time. But certainly, holding on tighter is unlikely to work, I think?
Hi J,
I agree with Bewitched’s response. This will be very frustrating, but if she’s disengaged then any initiation of re-engagment would also have to take place on her terms.
Stories are legend in this LwL world of LOs eventually ‘circling back’ … but giving yourself some space from the whole thing now will put you in a better position if and when that time ever comes, to decide whether its a good thing for you, ergo how you want to handle it.
Wishing you more peace as the days pass.
Hi J. I am sorry to hear about the developments with your LO. Believe me, I have been through this. In the past, whenever LO went cold on me, it was very painful. And to make things worse, she would be all warm the next time. This cold – hot behavior drove me nuts.
In your case, I feel, even though it will hurt, there seems to be a sense of clarity in what path you need to take. I hope it gets easier for you, and that you feel better soon. Take care, J.
“there seems to be a sense of clarity in what path you need to take. ” Sorry for being obtuse but what is that path? I’m guessing it is not launching emotional diatribes trying to resurrect the friendship, which is my inclination that I sometimes give in to.
Hi friends. Not sure if this will get seen but need to write down something somewhere. Despite my hopeful NC, spoke to LO last week and arranged a time to meet in person in a month. Since then I’ve been feeling anxious about it and know I need to cancel. But also dont want to. Hoping it just won’t happen. Not mentioned it to SO yet as it’s too soon. Another thing, I feel I’m sometimes being used to make LO other female friend jealous. Everytime LO and I catch up, this girl gets in touch with me casually (we do hang out and text sometimes). Also I messaged LO a work thing yesterday and she replied to it but he didn’t. Hes replied to messages ive sent him in the past so its a bit of a trigger. That’s put me in a foul mood. Its like she has to let me know that they talk and that shes part of the messags. Truth is they are closer friends and colleagues. Theres just some weird territorial vibe thats uncomfortable. Now I want distance from them both but probably seems irrational to them. Just head down from now on and hopefully no contact for real
Hi Whoomp,
whatever you do, cancel or not, please don’t get pulled into this weird competitive jealousy thing. It’s absolutely the worst! It distracts from the real problem of limerence and torments you quite unnecessarily, and destroys work relationships. Refuse to get into resentment for this woman. There’s no reason or right to be jealous of her! Be the better person of you three and simply refuse to get drawn into that pit, it’s beneath you. (I know what I’m talking about, had a competitive situation going on in LE 2, it was hell. Fun fact, this girl and me are friends now.)
I second Mila here, Whoomp!
Thank you for this. We are friends really but I just get frustrated with the jealousy thing. Would like mature adults to be friends with who they want without drama. But hey maybe they see me as drama ha. I asked about the message and got a straight answer from LO and a lie from other girl. Didn’t bother me particularly but had motivated me to withdraw a bit now. Courage and integrity… thanks for replying all x
Just to interject a short story about jealousy and LOs.
When I met LO she was single. About 8 months or so before she left the job she started seeing a young man. Now I felt the jealousy more that I lost time spent with her that she was spending with him when he would come visit her at work. Or they’d leave to go eat lunch and I would sit in the break room alone because she was off with him.
On her last day of the job, I was there. I was sitting at a desk where I could visibly see her office. She had brought both her daughters to work as it was summer and there was no school. He came in to visit her. She was happy to see him. And I could see them excitedly talk. She was talking to him. Not me.
He left. He was back in about 20 minutes. This is the southern US in June. It was probably 90-100F outside. He brought them all snow cones. If you talked to any of them and committed anything they said to memory you’d know all three of them loved snow cones. I thought to myself “dammit I gotta like this guy.” And in that instant I realized if he makes her happy than that is all that matters; she’s happy.
“Only know you love her when you let her go.”
Let Her Go — Passenger
(It just came on my mix on youtube as I was typing this. Eerie.)
If she wants to go get lost in someone else’s eyes, just let her be Son, just let her be..
Wise Dope Lemon wisdom 👈🏻
Hi Whoomp. Sorry you are feeling anxious. I have had bouts of anxiety when I knew I would bump into LO at a meeting. I did feel low for some time after the meeting, but always felt better after a while. I guess there was no other option than to just ride out the sad feelings. Personally, I never bailed out, though most of them were common meetings with other people also present. I was not sure what to tell SO regarding my absence at these meetings, as she was there too, so I just went ahead and attended them.
Earlier in my LE, during the glimmer phases, I used to love these meetings. They gave me immense highs, but all that’s in the past now.