A woman’s greatest ambition is to inspire love
Molière
Limerence is an extreme manifestation of a near-universal human desire – to fall in love, to bond, and to devote oneself to a mate. Limerent infatuation is so wild it’s untethered from reality, of course, but it is easy to understand it as an exaggerated version of a healthy impulse.
The flip side to this impulse is the desire to be loved, to be the object of infatuation, and to receive adoration from someone else (ideally, of course, someone we are attracted to ourselves). As the above quote from French playwright and cynical misanthrope Molière puts it, some people fiercely want to inspire love.
That got me to thinking – is there is an equivalent altered mental state to limerence for people who have a really exaggerated desire to be adored? A complementary exhilaration triggered by sensing that someone else is attracted to you? Like Molière’s caricature, are there some people who really, really like inspiring love, and would exalt at being a limerent object?
This concept sounds like narcissism, but I don’t just mean someone who is generally ego-hungry or personality disordered. I mean something a bit more subtle and specific – someone who is especially receptive to limerent interest, and gets spectacular emotional gratification from it. Could such “mirror limerence” exist?
Let’s be honest, I don’t know. But once you start entertaining the possibility, it does lead to some interesting conjectures…
1. They would be hypersensitive limerent objects
Imagine feeling the glimmer for someone who was a highly attuned limerence sensor. They would immediately spot your interest, and subconsciously respond in their pre-programmed way to kindle the interpersonal sparkles. This wouldn’t be malicious or conniving – they would just be responding to your interest by getting energised and excitable as they enjoy the thrill of inspiring limerence in you.
Such people – let’s call them Sensors from now on – would be potent limerent objects. They would sense the glimmer and respond in a way that amplifies it, because they want more. They would be expert at recognising the cues of infatuation and cultivating them, because being around an infatuated person makes them feel amazing. This could be as simple as being friendlier and more open because they can tell you like them, or more manipulative and selfish and deliberately seeking booster doses of admiration to regulate their own mood.
This is an awful trap for limerent and Sensor alike; you are both running on instinct to deepen intimacy, but for contrary reasons. The limerent wants the warm glow of reciprocation, the Sensor wants the warm glow of adoration. That leads to the next tragic outcome…
2. It would seem like they are leading you on
Understandably, if you start to feel the glimmer for someone and they get all excited and lively, and light up when you are around, and generally make you feel as though they enjoy it when you flirt and seek intimacy, then it’s likely that you will start to believe they are interested in you too.
And that’s because they are interested in you. The problem is that they are not necessarily interested in a relationship with you. Unfortunately, most limerents will miss this subtle and important distinction, and respond to the positive feedback by devoting themselves ever more earnestly to the Sensor in the hope they will secure the prize they want above all others. Instead they will eventually hit a wall.
The best way to know whether someone is interested in a relationship, or only interested in a flirty mood booster, is that an attempt to form a more sincere connection will be resisted. If they react negatively to suggestions that you get more serious – go on a date, or generally see each other on a one to one social basis – then it’s probable that they are excited by your adoration rather than your potential as a romantic partner.
It’s easy to give in to resentment in this scenario, and feel you’ve been led on, ill used and emotionally manipulated. They were giving out lots of encouraging signals, after all.
But a more charitable view is that they have just been following their subconscious urges – in exactly the same way that you followed your limerent urges as the attachment escalated.
3. They might be limerents too
Another scenario to consider is that limerents may be especially good Sensors themselves. After all, while romantic reciprocation is obviously the primary goal for limerents, the strongest craving is often to have their limerence “mirrored”, rather than simply securing physical consummation.
There could be a natural harmony that forms where the glimmer from one limerent triggers limerence in the Sensor and leads to mutual limerence. Perhaps all limerents are also Sensors to the extent that they will inevitably get a massive euphoric hit from seeing their limerent object displaying the signs of mutual limerence.
The problem comes when the limerent object is only a Sensor and not a reciprocating limerent.
4. They would struggle with the transition to healthy love
A final thought is that Sensors, whether limerents themselves or not, will struggle with the transition to healthy love. Just as limerents can struggle to understand what it means for their relationship when the euphoria fades, Sensors will react badly to the loss of adulation as the limerent begins to settle into the “deterioration” phase.
When you have been living with the delusion that the strength of limerence is evidence of eternal love, rather than time-limited neurochemistry, the comedown is brutal. A Sensor who loses the adulation of a partner will become insecure about the future of the relationship, and maybe seek their limerence supply elsewhere. At the least, they will be vulnerable to the next limerent who glimmers at them – just as limerents are vulnerable to the next limerent object who arrives after a long-term relationship has lost its emotional fireworks.
Everyone wants to be loved. Most people enjoy the ego-boost when they suspect that someone is attracted to them, but perhaps there are some people who have a limerence-like reaction to inspiring love.
For heartsick limerents, the desire for admiration from such a person can seem like a cruel and manipulative attempt to lead them on.
The purposeful response is to accept that, just as you struggle to regulate your limerent feelings, they might struggle to regulate their desire for adulation. Once you determine that they are not interested in you as a potential partner, then it is time to move on and find a worthier recipient of your ardour.
And if you recognise the idea of the “Sensor” in yourself, realise that it’s fine to enjoy the satisfaction inwardly, but not to lead on a limerent by seeking booster doses of admiration to regulate your own mood.
Running on unexamined instinct can lead to destructive collisions.
Ah but when the Sensors resolutely refuse to let the limerent escape … what then? When the limerent musters up all their strength to “move on” and the Sensor escalates the attention and complements and declarations of undying friendship and “needing you in my life”, and “you are the wind in my sails “? The limerent only has so much energy to invest in leaving as most of it is used up for adulation!!
“Ah but when the Sensors resolutely refuse to let the limerent escape … what then?”
@Jaideux.
That is a great philosophical question! Oh, yes, indeedy – a great philosophical question for the ages… 😁
Let’s have a crack at it.
I am personally of the opinion that a non-limerent LO has a moral obligation to release the limerent if the non-limerent LO (a) doesn’t requite the feelings and (b) doesn’t want a committed relationship with the limerent. This is because limerence is so much stronger than a crush, and no one has the right to put another human being through so much suffering. (I am prioritising compassion for the individual over broader notions of fairness here, or actually endorsing liberal morality). However, real life almost never pans out like this… 😉
Dorothy Tennov herself pointed out that limerence seems to leave non-limerent partners “high and dry” i.e. at risk of romantic rejection when it becomes clear that all the gooey, mushy, ecstatic, spiritual feelings aren’t reciprocated. 🤔
Research seems to suggest that Sensors experience limerence at much lower rates than Intuitives, or possibly not at all. However, Sensors probably are big fans of romance, and obviously have the ability to enjoy sex since they’re so grounded in the body. I imagine a Sensor would feel deeply frustrated and aggrieved the moment he learns the real reasons why the limerent Intuitive wishes to “escape” the bond. Or he would claim the limerent Intuitive’s reasons for wishing to leave aren’t real reasons…
The non-limerent Sensor probably feels they’re a loyal and genuine person. It’s not their fault they don’t necessarily crave exclusivity and can’t whip other-worldly passion on demand out of a top-hat, like a magician. The limerent Intuitive, on the other hand, will definitely feel “deceived” and “led on” by the non-limerent Sensor’s inconsistent and/or lukewarm investment in the bond – a bond which they themselves profess to find so valuable! 😲😉
A female relative of mine recently started dating again after a failed long-term relationship. This female relative is a Sensor. She has never experienced infatuation. However, she has confessed to me that she would like to date a guy who is infatuated with her – at least for a couple months, early on in the new relationship. So this is the attitude I think many Sensors would adopt. Sensors don’t really experience infatuation themselves, but they love being on the receiving end of a partner’s infatuation – within reason, of course!! 😉
“When the limerent musters up all their strength to “move on” and the Sensor escalates the attention and complements and declarations of undying friendship and “needing you in my life”, and “you are the wind in my sails “?”
Ultimately, I believe the real reason a Sensor doesn’t want a limerent to “move on” in a timely manner is because of how hard it would be for the Sensor to replace the limerent in his life/social circle. Sensors might struggle more than Intuitives when it comes to getting into agreeable romantic set-ups. They might be less physically attractive than the Intuitive in question, or they might lack certain very subtle social skills.
The limerent Intuitive is really doing all the emotional work in a relationship with a Sensor, and is likely providing the Sensor with an emotional experience the latter can’t easily replicate with another partner. In other words, the limerent Intuitive makes the non-limerent Sensor “feel comfortable”. However, the Sensor’s enjoyment of their limerent Intuitive friend doesn’t necessarily make the non-limerent Sensor value the limerent Intuitive over other potential friends and partners. The Sensor will still always go with the “best offer on the table”. Confusing, huh? 🙄
There’s already a word for someone who craves external validation to regulate their mood and self-esteem., and it’s not “Ssnsor.” It’s Pathological Narcissist.
Anyway, limerence is recognized as a feature and sun-type of OCD. For which the gold standard treatment is SSRI medication and Cognitive Behavior Therapy so why mislead people with all this and a course for purchase as well?
Oh! I’m beginning to piece it together! Does that make me a neoliberal? 🙄
I’m so disappointed in this blog. It started so well.
Neoliberal,
“For which the gold standard treatment is SSRI medication and Cognitive Behavior Therapy”
I’ve done both. They did not help with the limerence.
Going NC and reading this blog did.
“Why are they leading me on?”
Oh, goodness, another remarkable insight. Reading it makes me feel less alone because that mix of Limerent and Sensor can cause such uncertainty and heartache.
Unlike the complications of those who battle with being limerent when they have a SO, I am single. I don’t find that easy, however, because I need to find my own distractions and that can be hard.
My LO has a SO, however, and I am increasingly conscious of that as time goes on. He now has a new life in a different town.
We exchanged genuinely affectionate messages at the end of last year, instigated by me if I’m honest. My responses to his seasonal messages on WhatsApp have remained with two grey ticks. The miffed version of me thinks that that is a mean thing to do. I check at least once a day to see if they have gone blue. I can’t bear to delete the entire message history at the moment because of the wonderful messages he sent me a year or so ago. I no longer scroll through them and I know that really I should just scrub them. I have put the photos out of reach as far as possible and I don’t look at any reminders of our friendship.
I have written a long message explaining how hurt I feel at being ghosted, although I understand why. It’s a slightly self-indulgent missive which I shall never actually send. I have bought a birthday card for his gorgeous two-year old daughter but I do not think I should send it.
No Contact was gradual on his part, again if I’m honest. So it’s been ten weeks now and it’s killing me. Early mornings and waking up in the night can be the worst times. It feels so bleak to permanently lose an exceptional friend doesn’t it.
I think my so-called glimmery friend is a bit like this (I call her this even though I don’t truly think she gives me “the glimmer,” since it’s more just friendship and a garden variety crush with her). I think she enjoys having me like her and she deliberately tries to cultivate my feelings towards her. The funny thing is that despite me being really attracted to her, knowing that she flirted shamelessly with me a while back (she even admitted as much several times), liking her as a friend and being prone to limerence, I’m still nowhere limerent for this lady after hanging out with her regularly for a year now. If I was single and so was she and I had a chance with her, I’d go for it in a heartbeat (she is beautiful and certainly turns a lot of heads, even men half her age), but I couldn’t see having a serious relationship with this woman for various reasons.
I am pretty sure she wanted me to like her (a lot), but I’m still left wondering what she really wanted from me. Did she actually have feelings for me? Could she sense something in me that was indicative of limerence? Or was she just trying to stroke her own ego? I know that, like me, she is in a deeply unsatisfying marriage, but unlike me she actually cheated on her husband (she is very open about that). I still maintain that I wouldn’t physically cheat on my wife unless and until we went our separate ways. My glimmery friend also says she wouldn’t do that to her husband again, but she certainly gives off mixed signals. Perhaps she is conflicted and doesn’t know what she wants? Maybe she saw that I was in a very similar situation to her and thought there was a possibility of a discreet tryst between the two of us? I am kind of flattered she would pick me, but she did tell me I look somewhat similar to her former paramour. But then I tell myself she’s out of my league and she probably just wanted to stroke her own ego by flirting with me.
I already mentioned the strange circumstances of how my glimmery friend is a good friend of LO #1 (who was basically a stranger to me, although I kind of know her a bit by now). It was so weird because I knew who my glimmery friend was maybe 18 months before I ever met her. I saw tons of pictures of her together with LO #1 posted on the Facebook page of the bar where I met LO #1 and I recognized her name and face when I finally did meet her. I couldn’t believe that not only did I befriend this woman, but she even ended up flirting with me! Then she ended up bringing LO #1 back into my life after 2.5 years of no contact. What are the chances of that?
I did confide in my glimmery friend that I liked LO #1 a little too much for the situation. That didn’t seem to bother her, but she definitely seemed jealous when I told her a little bit about my feelings for LO #2 (who is a mutual friend). She then promptly told me about another guy I know casually and told me how hot he is. She keeps on going on about the guy, I’m assuming at least partially to make me jealous. Perhaps I am just slightly jealous of the guy, but it’s not a big deal. If she finds him really hot, who cares? But I do kind of miss the attention from my glimmery friend. I would say it has started to come back just a little lately (we started again to talk quite a lot and confide in each other), but I did tell her how much I miss LO #2, who basically is no longer in our friend group. My glimmery friend said, “I know you do,” but it didn’t seem like she was jealous. I think she also misses LO #2 as a friend, since she was such an integral part of our crowd, and now she has basically ditched us. Things just aren’t the same without her. I’m not sure if I am really still limerent for LO #2, but I am sad and depressed that she is no longer in my life (other than being a bullshit Facebook friend I never actually see in person).
I guess I have two questions about my glimmery friend: (1) What does she want from me? and (2) Why have I not become limerent for this lady (who frankly is better looking than either LO #1 or LO #2 and gave me much more validation than the other two combined)? Is it because she is married, her extremist political views that are so different from my own, the fact I am still not completely over LO #2 or simply the fact that there was no subtlety or anything left to the imagination in her flirtation with me (and, in fact, she readily admits to it)? Is it possible that her questionable morals turn me off? It is kind of difficult to put this woman on a pedestal, even though I do like her as a friend and find her extremely attractive.
Vicarious…
Two things.
A) I don’t think people can generally be limerent for two people at once. At least I never have been. So that might explain it.
B) I’m curious. In terms of the list of options etc. At the end of your post… Why do YOU think you haven’t got infatuated etc? Surely you are the only person who can know WHAT about this person is not to your taste. Do you honestly feel that you don’t know?
Asking from curiosity, no offence intended.
@Thomas, I am aware that the experts pretty much all agree it is basically impossible to be limerent for more than one person at a time, but I did experience transference to LO #2 from LO #1. I thought something similar would happen with my glimmery friend, but so far this hasn’t happened. I am really not sure why it is that I haven’t become limerent for her, but I suspect it is a combination of all of the factors I mentioned above. Another big one I forgot to mention is that she is so closely associated with LO #1 (and bizarrely also LO #2). I haven’t been limerent for LO #1 in quite some time, but I do still like her, find her attractive and retain a lot of fascination for her. Having feelings for one of her best friends just seems so odd. But more than anything I think it is the fact that it is hard to create limerent idealization of my glimmery friend in my head. She is a very attractive woman, we get along very well, we are in somewhat similar situations and she is a lot of fun, but I would find it so hard to put her on a pedestal since I found out very early on that she is very much a flawed character (as we probably all are).
I would still love to find out just what she was looking for from me, but I don’t have the courage to outright ask her (I suspect she either wouldn’t give me an honest answer or wouldn’t really know consciously herself). Just the other day my glimmery friend asked me, “Ever notice how I always take a picture with just the two of us whenever we go out?” That started me wondering again if there is anything to her interest in me.
Song of the Blog: “Big Log” – Robert Plant (1983)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQENqYt-xmE
This is probably my favorite Robert Plant song. LO #2 and I started dating in 1983.
We saw him in concert in June of 1985. This was the last song of the encore.
Omg yes! You’re so spot on here! I have been listening to it all day since I read this post earlier! It’s such a great song.
This whole post really hits home for me, too.
Good call!
Oh dear, my long time suspicion has been confirmed! I’ve been thinking about this “theory” for quite some time. Hearing (in this case, reading) this from you, for me is a form of validation. Thank you for the insight, Dr. L. It is very valuable for me.
This is an interesting topic. I believe my LO fits into the #2 mold nicely. I have always believed she is attracted to me in some way that stops short of romantic. When I disclosed to her she claimed feelings of friendship only but what has been weird is she has actually drawn a bit closer to me since I disclosed. I think she enjoys my attention/affection, mainly because she has affection gaps with her SO and I fill a few male relational voids in her life. This whole sensor idea makes sense to me.
One thing I would say here is that the model sort of assumes that limerent signalling is difficult to detect for other people, or LOs. Because otherwise ‘sensors’ would just be people responding to being desired.
Now there might be some people who are fully available to be in a relationship but just lead a limerent (or let’s face it, anyone) on for kicks. But the other issue is barriers. Limerence is partly defined as being exacerbated by barriers to realisation
of a relationship.
So maybe a more parsimonious solution is that limerents are pretty obvious in their attachments and some people like attention. Limerents themselves identify people who are unlikely to be able to respond fully.
I think my final point is that the idea of a ‘sensor’ plays to the common limerent fantasy that LOs are special. Or else that in some cases that they are reciprocating (when they may not be).
… And of course vanity and flattery are age-old vices.
As you can tell Dr. L. I’m a bit sceptical of the sensor hypothesis.
I think LO just enjoyed the attention. It’s not probably something that is in short supply for her though. She is a very attractive woman and I am sure gets some unwanted attention from time to time. I probably wasn’t any different than any other man (or woman) that has been smitten with her.
The only thing, after reading this post, that I realized is I think LO solicited attention from me more after she got into a relationship with another young man. When she was single it actually seemed she was less interested in anything other than work related communication and the occasional small talk.
Or maybe she noticed that I saw her differently all of a sudden and liked it. I’m not sure if it was a conscious manipulation rather than she was just flattered and knew how to get my attention to give her attention. I don’t think there was anything malicious there though. But then in the fog of limerence maybe I just didn’t want to admit it that I was being manipulated because I liked getting the attention from her. She was very complimentary towards the end and seemed more endearing. The last day I saw her I know that she went out of her way to let me help her with things that she normally was very independent about. Like letting me do manual labor for her or holding the door open. Things she would normally say she could do herself.
“The only thing, after reading this post, that I realized is I think LO solicited attention from me more after she got into a relationship with another young man. When she was single it actually seemed she was less interested in anything other than work related communication and the occasional small talk.”
Actually, it’s not all that surprising. Once she was in a romantic relationship, you were no longer a threat in that context.
That allowed her to be more open in other areas.
I operated that way in HS. There was a girl who really liked me. The idea of anyone getting close enough to me to see what a massive cauldron of insecurity I really was scared the living sh-t out of me.
Once I’d trashed things to the point that she gave up on me, we became very good friends. She was the only girl I stayed in contact with after HS and I visited her while I was in college. We stayed in contact until she got engaged and said it would be for the best if we said goodbye.
I found a picture she gave me in HS. The caption on the back said, “Peace?”
45 years later, I’m not sure what she meant by that. I never heard from her again. I looked for her but can’t find her.
My point is that your LO’s new relationship frees her up to be more open. For a limerent, that could be badly misconstrued.
You didn’t change, she did. LOs have been known to do that and it can wreak havoc on us limerents. An LO whose circumstances changed was the basis for my LE with LO #4.
Don’t overthink it.
Also, there is the “back up mate” hypothesis. Basically, women have an instinct to have a male (usually platonic friend) as a back up. Evolutionarily this means that if the primary relationship fails, she and her off spring will have instant access to other male protection.
“Actually, it’s not all that surprising. Once she was in a romantic relationship, you were no longer a threat in that context.”
A threat in what context? That she thought I wanted to pursue her and so she kept her distance because I was married? But once she was with someone she didn’t think that I would pursue her?
Bearing in mind this is pure speculation on my part.
My take is she was aware of your interest and, as LO #4 so eloquently put it after my disclosure was, “Wow! I had no idea! I’m flattered and, under different circumstances, might even be curious. But, circumstances are what they are.”
Maybe if you had been available, she might have been curious but you aren’t available. You don’t become unlikable. She found someone else and took herself out of that game. That allows her to adjust the boundaries and be a friend.
It can be excruciating to see an LO move on. But, if you’re not available, you never lost them because you never really had a chance with them.
As attached limerents, we don’t even get to say, “LO could have had me.” I can say that about LO #2 but she can’t say that about me. I asked her to marry me and she declined. LO #4 can’t say it because she knew I was married and she threw the flag. I can’t say it about LO #4 because I wasn’t available.
Part of me likes to think I cross their minds now and then. I want LO #2’s last thought on her deathbed to be of me. But, I can be pissy that way. I’d be happy if I knew LO #4 could still spell my name.
None of it matters but now those thoughts are endless Muzak. They’re always in the background but they’re no longer affecting anything. They’re something I’ve just learned to live with. I make no decisions based on them nor do I have to really consciously think over or around them. But, in the absence of something else to think about, they float up. Hanging around LwL probably reinforces that but it’s a luxury that I can afford. If past performance is an indicator of future performance, I’m approaching the end of my time here.
That went a little sideways.
Limmy says
MARCH 6, 2023 AT 5:19 PM
“Also, there is the “back up mate” hypothesis. Basically, women have an instinct to have a male (usually platonic friend) as a back up. Evolutionarily this means that if the primary relationship fails, she and her off spring will have instant access to other male protection.”
I was just also wondering about the role of ‘benching’ by an LO, which is maybe adding to that and more of an emotional basis.
As a limerent myself I know the extreme difficulty in deciding if positive responses are ‘friendliness’ or signs of a more significant developing reciprocation.
I have also learned an LO can be unstable in that regard depending on the state of play with her SO. Even from a well meaning LO’S POV why wouldn’t they ‘bench’ someone they like who is signalling strong interest in them, if there is instability with their SO. It means that LO’s bets are well hedged if they haven’t declared or are not sure they have any romantic interest. What have they got to lose by keeping the adoring limerent in orbit around them? The LO can push away and pull back knowing that the interest in them seems to be guaranteed whatever they do or don’t do.
Until one day it isn’t and the Limerent goes NC as I am trying to establish now, which is very hard and deeply distressing.
That’s an interesting hypothesis. I often wondered how much LO could sense about me. The rest of the office knew I had a “crush” on LO and would occasionally tease me about it. So if they knew something was there from observation, I would have thought LO did too even if she didn’t voice it.
When I first met LO she was single; recently divorced. So the interest she could probably sensed from me could have been a possible “just in case” interest. Being that she was also dealing with her ex being toxic in her life still and I seemed to have treated her with special interest. Or for me the way I was raised, the way a man should treat a lady. Because to start, when I worked with her, I didn’t have any special interest in her. It wasn’t until a year into knowing her that I had a glimmer for her. But then at that time she was the only female worker in the office so she had no reference for how I interacted with women.
Either way, I was married and/or the man she is with now is more appealing she didn’t pursue finding out how far I would go. Which is a definite blessing. I really wouldn’t want to test my resolve as a husband with her. It’s bad enough with just the limerence.
This hit home!
I think both men and women are capable of benching. Admittedly I have even done this before.
I suspect my current LO is benching me. He said early in our dating that he was “pursuing someone in another country,” His goal is to have them here eventually and be in a committed relationship with them. I suspect she is a Chinese women he has never met offline.
* Emphinay moment – she is his LO!
Well, this makes sense now! But I believe he is strongly attracted to me and probably is feeding off my energy. He is in sensor mode with me and is ultimately benching me if things don’t work out with her.
Its been beyond baffling to me! He acts like my bf most of the time! EA is a big part of our … relations? I completely stopped physical interaction. Which he passive-aggressively mentions every other day, and if I don’t text him for a day or two, he gets weird and pushes back into my life.
OMG, this is so dramatic and complicated.
Having the realization that he is probably a limerate too, does give me some empathy. For a while, I felt like I was the unhealthy crazy one, and I couldn’t understand why I could be like him and everyone else. But he is more like me! LMAO
But this is still not healthy. I deserve more than to be someone’s bench or placeholder.
In my case it went much more ordinary.
He WAS interested. He DID like me. It was always HIM actively approaching me. I didn’t imagine anything. Except – he forgot to tell me he was married with 3 children. Besides that, he lied just about anything. His profession, job, education, where he lived, car he drove, even his ethnicity(!) (said Australian-Brazillian, it was Australian-Greek: I mean – who does this?!!)
When I started asking questions and expressed my pain/feeling, all I got was a mail, saying he regrets he let it go so far stringing me along. An apology was the best he could do. He didn’t admit anything. And next he vanished. It all made no sense and that was the painful part that made me Limerent and wondering for months.
I met him in Europe and couldn’t check anything he said. I think he was trying to pretend to be someone completely else or build the second nest. It was pure by accident that months later I stumbled upon the man I knew he worked with, because he introduced us, who told me the truth. Before that I was in Limerent pain for 6 months, knowing nothing. Amount of pain/obsession I cannot even put to words.
I am glad I didn’t end up in bed with him, and that was only because he was inconsistent. I think he let me go not because of empathy, altruism or consciousness, but because I showed boundaries and started to ask questions. I didn’t serve his purpose.
My conclusion is that I got to deal with a pathological lier. I’m not gonna say a Narcissist or a Sociopath, but definitely someone on a Beta-cluster spectrum.
He said he was an INFP, but I experienced him more like a ESTP. Me myself am ENTP (This might be interesting: to make a pool about Limerents and their LO Myers Briggs classification and which personality types are prevalent.
The moment I realized the true nature of things I felt relief. It was not me. Felt like I dodged the bullet (could of got much worse and only 2,5 months lost). My healing had begun. I am still not completely there, fighting the intrusive thoughts, but I notice I am getting better. I am not checking up on him at all. I am not chasing the truth or details of his private or professional life etc. And I am trying to push up thoughts of him or injustice when they pop up (which us still often). Being busy is the best therapy!
What really helped me was that I confronted him. And then blocked him.
I feel really ashamed that I fell for such a douchebag and have problems shaking it off.
Draga
Dr L did a post on that very subject of the correlation with MBTI and limerence. (https://livingwithlimerence.com/how-common-is-limerence/) It was his thoughts on a online survey (which he linked in his post) that was done to see which MBTI personality types were most susceptible to limerence. Being an ISFJ myself I was surprised at how low, according to the survey, ISFJ are weak to limerence.
I could certainly see how my type, at least with me personally, played into me falling into limerence with LO. Add in rescue type and anxious-insecure attachment and its a wonder I didn’t fall into limerence much sooner after meeting her than I did. She played right into all the issues that I have in regards to women perfectly. But thankfully, for my wife, my children and my life she chose someone else.
Somehow though I still struggle to move past her in my mind. My actions over the 9 months she has been gone are the right ones. But my mind and heart still struggle to let her go.
Thank you!
I was talking with a female friend who is also near the end of a limerent experience. She was recently diagnosed with fibroid tumors, and after a visit to a specialist in Chinese Medicine she was asked about whether she had any fantasies she was holding on to. This was her first time meeting this Chinese Medicine practitioner, who had no idea about her limerence. However, according to Chinese Medicine, fibroid tumors can be caused by fantasies that we are holding on to. I found this fascinating.
An exercise my friend was given involved visualizing a river and trying to pinpoint when the fibroid started. She tried these exercises and began to visualize a moment when she felt an energetic connection with her LO. The Chinese Medicine practitioner looked at her ultrasound, which showed the fibroid growing on a stalk, and told her to imagine that this fibroid was her LE connected to her, and if she could visualize cutting the energy cord with her LE, it would be like cutting the stalk of the fibroid. Super interesting stuff, and we’ll see what happens with this.
In regards to this post, my friend said she relates to this sensor idea, and it was only after picking up on signs from LO that her LE started. The LE is only in her head and until the fibroid, hadn’t caused any problems for her and her SO. It was just a nice fantasy that she enjoyed, spurred on by moments of attention from LO who she sees occasionally in social circles.
She says it’s hard to visualize cutting the cord with LO because he makes her feel so good when she sees him and she isn’t seeing any harm in it. But now with this fibroid growth, maybe it’s the body’s way of telling her it is harmful? I find this mind/body stuff quite intriguing, and not sure if I quite believe it, but I am very curious. Have others had a similar experience?
“Everyone wants to be loved. Most people enjoy the ego-boost when they suspect that someone is attracted to them, but perhaps there are some people who have a limerence-like reaction to inspiring love.
For heartsick limerents, the desire for admiration from such a person can seem like a cruel and manipulative attempt to lead them on.”
This is an absolutely fascinating hypothesis…
Do some people get a high out of being adored? Yup, I’m pretty sure they do. 😉
For the record, I don’t believe my LO ever “led me on”. Honestly, in addition to me, he had scores of female admirers: female admirers who made their admiration very obvious. Competition for his favour was fierce, to say the least. I wasn’t even in the running, except in the realm of fantasy. How I ever managed to get him to myself occasionally I don’t know. (Maybe he wasn’t as gorgeous and as charismatic and as socially in-demand as I believed him to be?) 🙄
Still, he never lacked for company. I’d be, like, number thirty million on his list of “most-liked people”, if I made it onto his list at all!! 😆 However, I do believe he enjoyed being admired, and wasn’t too fussed if that admiration came from someone that he wasn’t interested in dating. I praised his facial hair once. He seemed to find the compliment gratifying rather than disgustingly inappropriate due to it coming from someone of the wrong biological sex. (Can men legitimately and inoffensively compliment the grooming habits of other men? Who knows?) 🙄
Validation seems to be something human beings really like, and I mean all human beings. I’m most likely on the autism spectrum, although I’ve made massive strides recently in terms of my social skills, so it’s taken me a while to wrap my head around how much so-called “normies” love giving and receiving validation. Validation-swapping, for neurotypicals, seems to be some kind of empty social ritual, much like small talk. One shouldn’t read too much into it… 😉
I guess, in garden-variety-crush-type situations, there no harm in exchanging validation. Even validation that arguably strays into romantic territory. However, limerence is a whole different animal to garden-variety crush. A crush, for example, doesn’t make someone deeply sad, and feel that life is not truly worth living, if the feelings aren’t returned. A crush is an agreeable extra on the menu. It’s not the whole darn restaurant, which limerence masquerades as being. 😉
When I was in limerence, I became oddly obsessed with the idea of “masculinity”, whatever “masculinity” is. I think, I thought that if I presented myself in a sufficiently masculine way, my LO would never suspect I was limerent for him. I would “get away” with my obsession, in other words. The irony is that (a) my LO wasn’t particularly attracted to or impressed by “masculinity” if he ever thought about said topic, which he probably didn’t, and (b) he was always more girly or “feminine” than me anyway. (Very vain about his appearance, etc).
When I was in limerence, I assumed the difference between human men and human women must be MASSIVE. And in my head I further exaggerated any differences I could find between the sexes. I believe I was doing this in an attempt to justify and/or explain why I was attracted to who I was attracted to. Now that I’m no longer limerent, I realise the differences between men and women are not as great as I always imagined, and that the (straight) men who succeed in long-term relationships with women are men who display more conventionally “feminine” traits (such as love and compassion and nurturing) anyway! 🙄
I’ve realised that the reason I’ve done so poorly in life in my relationships with both men and women is I’ve always emphasised my masculinity at the expense of my femininity, because I was trying to avoid real and/or perceived social rejection. I assumed incorrectly that other humans were repulsed by my so-called “femininity”. I see now that even the men who succeed at platonic friendships with other men are the men who are somewhat in touch with their feelings. 😲
I always thought everyone else in my life was “emotionally unavailable” and that’s why none of my relationships worked out. Now, I see I’m the emotionally unavailable one who is unwilling to connect with others, largely out of a fear of “doing it the wrong way/making a mistake”. I’m the one who’s been “holding people at arm’s length”. I have mistakenly conflated masculinity and avoidant attachment. I thought that to be a “real man” one must be stern and serious and standoffish.
Do you know I have a really haunting memory related to limerence? I was at my school formal, and my (male) LO was watching me and my (female) date have our picture taken. This girl was the same girl who was limerent for me, by the way, adding an extra layer of sexual confusion and moral ambiguity to the story…
Anyway, my male LO thought that this girl and I looked so cute together that he giggled as he observed us. I don’t know why this memory is so spooky. I think it’s spooky because it’s the only time all three of us were in the same room together and unintentionally “sharing a moment”. 🤔
I think I was drawn to my male LO precisely because he had some feminine traits, such as giggling, although I perceived him as being very manly too. (He was better at sport that I was). His occasional and clearly very superficial interest in me, however, is something I can’t explain – not even to this day. He was brilliant at giving me crumbs of affection and attention and only ever crumbs.
He never gave me an empty platter, in a manner of speaking, for instance, and he never gave me the whole cake. If he ever gave me an empty platter, I’m sure the infatuation would be over in a heartbeat. If he ever gave me a whole cake, or even an entire slice of cake, I’m sure the infatuation would be over just as fast. It’s hard not to think of him of some kind of evil genius sometimes. How did he always manage to measure out just the right amount of positive reinforcement to keep hooked? The only rational explanation is he wasn’t doing whatever he was doing on purpose… 🤣🙄
This blog post really hits home for me. My LO is a friend who I met about 6 months ago. I am a straight married female and fell completely limerent for this woman! I’ve posted before because in the beginning, I was so confused and upset by these feelings and I really didn’t understand this over the top level of crushing on someone. As time has gone on, I’ve come to understand it a bit more and this website has been a godsend.
Anyway, I told her that I had more than friend feelings for her (she’s lesbian) and how I was very confused then everything just got a little awkward. And then out of the blue, she just said “bye, this is too weird for me”. I was so sad for weeks but I knew NC was definitely a healthier place for me. Then, after about 6 weeks of NC (and me crying A LOT), she texted me to say hi. I really thought we were never going to be friends again but here we are, friends once again. UGH. We have such a sweet and natural friendship and amazing chemistry. It feels like I’ve known her my entire life. I guess we are just meant to be friends and that’s fine with me. I feel much more in control of the situation now than I ever did, which makes me think I am healing a bit from my crazy limerence. That said, it’s not completely gone. And I think she kind of loves that I like her, but oddly, she is making a bigger effort in the friendship and I think she kind of missed being so adored hence the Sensor! I wonder if I’m just being led on? Maybe I’m just reading into it and she really just missed our friendship. I don’t really know.
This whole thing has been very enlightening and I’m spending a lot of time just trying to be more spiritual. Trying to accept myself, no matter who or what I am. And trying not to be so hard on myself. I’m overall so much happier and I feel like having gone through this limerence has been such a growing experience for me. Crazy, right? And even if I’m being kind of “led on” by my LO, I am so much stronger and in control these days.
Hi NinaZee, it’s good to hear your update. I have no doubt that you feel like things are good and under control with your LO friendship. I can’t predict where this is heading, but I know that many of us do the bounce-back-to-friendship dance with our LOs and it can be unhealthy. (This is coming from the girl who is actively maintaining friendships with her current and most recent LOs. Oh brother, who am I to speak?). Anyway, I want you to consider something…
Are you being honest with your family about your contact with LO? It sounds like you have a great family and you guys look out for each other. Does your husband and/or son know that you are spending time with LO again?
It is good to hear from you! Thanks for dropping in.
Lovisa!!
Hello friend, it’s so nice to hear from you, as well! Always the voice of reason and I did get a little lol from you saying “(This is coming from the girl who is actively maintaining friendships with her current and most recent LOs. Oh brother, who am I to speak?). ” 🤣. And no, my son and husband don’t know that I’m spending time with LO again…😬. I’m not sure where things are headed and I agree that this dance isn’t super healthy. I know I said I feel stronger and in control and I do…for now. Anyway, this place is a little bit like going to confession. Needed to confess. Now I will try to keep my focus on other things.
How are things with you? I hope well. Thank you, as always, for your kindness and sound advice ❤️
NinaZee,
I hope you keep coming back. I don’t want to be an enabler to you so I have to admit that I am concerned about the secrecy. That being said, I know it’s hard to resist LO contact. Also, I want you to feel safe sharing here because healing comes through community and shining a light on the situation.
I still believe that I am juggling LO2, LO3 and SO well. I am probably delusional. I had a set back over the weekend when SO was out of town and LO3 was unavailable and I actually broke down into tears. My feelings were overwhelming. And guess who offered me comfort and kindness… SO. He knew why I was sad and he tried to cheer me up. He is incredible. Hopefully, someday I’ll be worthy of him.
Miss Lovisa you are very much worthy of your husband. You might struggle but you stay faithful and loyal to him despite your limerence.
And while he might not fully understand it hes beside you unconditionally. That means you have forged an incredible bond together. I know that you two will be together till the end no matter what obstacles limerence throws in front of you two.
I dont like admitting this Miss Lovisa but I had tears for LO. Ive been sick since Thursday last week with a lung infection so Ive been listening to lots of music and this came on. Not sure if Ive posted before.
Tell Me — Hunter Hayes
https://youtu.be/nGWtMl49-jU
Hi Adam, I wondered why you weren’t posting as much. I’m sorry you’re sick. Do you have a treatment to get yourself feeling better soon? I was quite ashamed of my tears for my LO, too. I understand where you are coming from. I feel like my situation is a little more despicable considering that my SO is being so kind towards me. Since Momma is being cold, you kinda have an excuse to justify your limerence (not that any of us limerents should be using excuses). Though it sounds like you guys have moments of connection, too. I must give her credit for that because I know this has been hard on her.
I met a new friend today and she told me that she struggles with jealousy. She checks her husband’s phone for pornography and it hurts her if she “catches” him. They almost divorced over it. Anyway, she isn’t comfortable with the idea of her husband being around other women. Here’s the thing, she is so likable! I kept thinking, “She would not like me if she knew I had relationships with LOs.” I felt like I got a sample of what LO’s wife would be like. I really don’t want to hurt anyone. And I really don’t want to trigger jealousy in anyone. I have been second-guessing myself all day. I had a brief conversation with LO3 this morning and that’s all. LO2 had surgery so his friend reached out to me to see if I could cheer him up. I think his friend and I cheered him up. That text conversation was on and off for most of the work-day.
Oh brother, what am I doing? Anyway…
Thanks for saying those nice things about my SO and our marriage. Eternity is our goal.
Yes Miss Lovisa I went to the doctor and got some medicine. I wanted to get tested before I went back to work (I’m back today) to make sure it wasn’t covid. It got worse over the weekend so I wanted to get tested Monday and was negative. I am feeling better today but still congested from the infection. But the medicine is helping.
We haven’t talked about LO in a while. I don’t really know her feelings still on the subject. We just kind of left it open ended. And now isn’t the time. Our oldest is home for spring break from college so I know she is enjoying her time with him. I went for a walk to the store with him yesterday after I was feeling better. And he confessed to me that he had a pregnancy scare with his lady friend as they tried without protection. Oh shit I don’t want to be a grandparent at 45. But I kept calm and just told him to be careful and concentrate on college.
I’ve never really had that issue in regards to my wife, as I don’t think that I am the only man she has ever noticed and/or found attractive. As long as I am who she gets in bed with each night it doesn’t really bother me. It is apparent this does bother her and I am trying to find a way in which to make it right. I try not to dwell on LO and keep my thoughts clear at least when I am at home.
I remembered in conversation the time that LO got really sick back in 2021 and she had to get tested for covid like I did Monday. I told my wife that while we were waiting in the doctor’s office and that I was glad that it wasn’t and that she recovered. I told my wife I sent her a get well card (which I hadn’t told her before) in an effort to be honest. She didn’t really react much either way.
And I am glad that he is recovering well from his surgery. I haven’t had a surgery in a long time but many years ago I had to have an emergency appendix removal and that was a difficult thing to recover from. Hoping for the best for him and his recovery.
We all have to work at this one day at a time Miss Lovisa. Don’t be too hard on yourself but also watch yourself. I am only in a position to have to watch my thoughts that they don’t get to where they shouldn’t. I trust in your faith to your husband Miss Lovisa. I know you will do the right thing.
Thanks Adam. I will watch myself.
A pregnancy scare, yikes! It sounds like you handled yourself well when you were with your son.
Interesting that Momma didn’t react to hearing LO’s name. I wonder why.
Hi Lovisa,
“I hope you keep coming back. I don’t want to be an enabler to you so I have to admit that I am concerned about the secrecy. That being said, I know it’s hard to resist LO contact. Also, I want you to feel safe sharing here because healing comes through community and shining a light on the situation.”
Yes, you’re spot on with my secrecy. I’m not being forthcoming with that right now with either my husband or son. I don’t feel like I’m doing anything wrong at this point and I’m not planning on doing anything wrong. But I know this is a slippery slope. I do. ☹️
“I still believe that I am juggling LO2, LO3 and SO well. I am probably delusional. I had a set back over the weekend when SO was out of town and LO3 was unavailable and I actually broke down into tears. My feelings were overwhelming. And guess who offered me comfort and kindness… SO. He knew why I was sad and he tried to cheer me up. He is incredible. Hopefully, someday I’ll be worthy of him.”
You’re not delusional! You’re human and flawed and beautiful, like the rest of us! We’re all doing our best, but we are not perfect. I think it’s wonderful that your SO comforted you when you needed it. I also believe that these LO experiences have been put into our lives for a reason. I, personally, don’t know what that reason is, but I have a lot of faith in the universe. I’m so sorry that you had a moment that was so overwhelming that it brought you to tears, but maybe that was necessary to release something inside of you. I hope that you’re feeling better and that you are connecting more with your SO.
Thanks, NinaZee. I appreciate your kind words. Be careful, okay?
Thanks, I’ll be careful. Actually, I don’t think LO and I will ever see each other again after today. Let’s just say I opened my eyes and saw some things about her that I chose not to see before and I kind of feel like I dodged a massive bullet. I’m glad it happened so that I can officially move on from this situation. Thank you for your support, I really appreciate all of your help these past few months. ❤️
NinaZee,
I had a bad feeling about her. Whatever it was that you saw, I’m glad it happened and you can move forward.
You are welcome. I enjoyed our back and forth, too. Best of luck!
Thanks Lovisa, yes, I’m glad, too. Take care and good luck with it all ❤️💕
NinaZee
I have had exactly the same experience like you… I am married with kids and suddenly found myself to be glimmered by a female colleague. She gave me so much attention and compliments. My husband commented that he thought she was in love with me. However, it never really materialised as she only wanted to meet occasionally. Most of the contact was virtual and intense- multiple times per day for more than a year- starting early in the morning and ending before going to bed.
But…over time she turned out to be emotionally distant, sometimes cold, self-centered and showed narcistic traits. One day I could not take it anymore and told her I was hurt by her selfish behaviour- after which she ghost lighted me. During that period I tried to go NC, to focus on me and get rid of this obsession for her. But then we got back in touch, through work, and I was back into loving her. She seems to not be able to let go either. I think she loves my adoration and attention too much. So now we are back to being “friends” again. I feel different though- more in control- but worried she is just playing with my feelings and that the more I withdraw, the more she will do her best to keep me in her life. Part of me still has hope that she may really love me back- and that she is also struggling like me to not give in…But then… we are both married… there is no chance at all. I would just wish it could be a normal friendship- now wonderful would that be….! Could it be that she just sees me as a friend… really has no idea..could it be?
Ha! I’m sure my LO was a sensor.
He more than likely was a “sensor” for multiple women on social media
His shopping for women place of choice!
And he was a Narcissist or at the very least Borderline. Very Mirroring
I knew he had a not-so-great-childhood and that’s probably why we connected so well. He needed constant admiration, and I gave it to him.
He wanted a relationship with me (or so he said) But I knew he was bad news from the get-go.
One divorce and three engagement under his belt @ 48 years old. So there’s that.
I almost went to him. I didn’t. Even as strong as the EA was, deep down I knew better.
I would have to give up everything I had just to be the flavor of the month.
Be proud of yourself!
(Mine was the same btw!)
Hello everyone. Really good to find this site. I have been in an LE for the past one year. Keep having intrusive thoughts in my head that I cannot seem to control. Would like to get better, and know what to do, but it seems very hard. Married with kids, had a loss in the family sometime back. Would really appreciate thoughts and suggestions. Thanks for listening.
Welcome AN,
Sorry to hear about your struggle. Intrusive thoughts are difficult to manage. I have a few suggestions. First, Dr L recommends purposeful living and no contact with LO to overcome the LE. Also, if you can replace LO daydreams with something else that interests you, that will help a lot. For example, I love running and math. I can distract myself by pondering my pace at different slopes or I can watch a YouTube video about running. That works well for me, what might work for you? What do you like?
Here is a YouTube video that explains why we get intrusive thoughts and how to cope with them. It helped me when I was at a low point in my previous LE.
https://youtu.be/laeYq51SYA0
I got desperate enough with my previous LE to use transference. When I transferred my limerence to my LO3, I made a conscious effort not to daydream about LO3. To be honest, I still daydream about him, but I catch myself and redirect my thoughts. I tell myself that when I daydream about LO3, I am creating pathways in my brain that will lead to intrusive thoughts, that is how I keep myself grounded. My current LE is usually mild and pleasant. Also, I am friends with my previous LO and I have zero limerence for him since transferring. I don’t recommend using transference until you try other coping methods because there are drawbacks.
Good luck!
Thanks for the advice Lovisa. I am fond of running so I am already doing that — trying to make it interesting by timing myself, trying to run longer and faster. Hopefully it will help. Thanks for sharing the video about trying to navigate intrusive thoughts, I will have a look at that. You are right, controlling intrusive thoughts is very hard. I do try to not think about LO, but the thoughts keep coming back. I am able to function well when I am with friends.
Contact with LO is minimal, may not be feasible to eliminate it completely due to living in common compound, with common circles. Seems like I am in a deep hole, and am trying to get myself out slowly and surely. There are the odd setbacks here and there (looking at their picture for example), but I am working on commitment to the recovery process.
Are you in my head!?
Your articles and writing on Limerence have been incredibly eye-opening. And sort of liberating to know I am not alone in this experience. I won’t go as far as saying it is natural, but it’s just something that is common. This has given me great solace.
Currently, I am in a LE, and I was seeking to free myself from my LO. This specific article has really been enlightening as I have found my LO responses when I pull away. I suspect he is a sensor.
My LO and I run in similar friend circles. I attempted an NC. Deleted his number, texts, pics, etc. So two weeks later, our mutual friend put us all in a group text! He has been using the group text to sort of stay around. We agreed to attempt a “friendship,” but I strongly agree that I don’t feel it is genuine on my part.
Now my LO knows of my attraction and desire to date and develops a real relationship. However, he said he is emotionally unavailable and unable to offer me anything more than “friends with benefits.” Despite my almost desperate desire and attraction to him, I have held my ground that that is unacceptable. I can recognize with my limerate state, it would lead to deeper heartache and despair if I settled and engaged in a physical but nonemotional relationship with him (at least not emotional on his part). He says he understands and respects it, but every time I turn around, he flirts and contacts me.
I am working really hard at focusing on his negative attributes, stopping my fantasies (they were getting horrifically disruptive), and reducing contact as much as possible. The majority of our mutual friends are unaware that we did date, and it didn’t work out. I really don’t want to be the dramatic girl that has to isolate herself from all her friends because of my limerence. I don’t want everyone asking me questions etc. I suspect my limerence is related to my loneliness (I am single and childless), and isolating feels depressing.
It is hard for me to believe he is malicious and cruel. Or that he is a horrible person for leading me on. I do feel he genuinely cares. He was the first to wish me happy birthday. One of the few to get me a gift. He always asks about my mental health and constantly reminds me that despite living alone with no family, I am not alone, and he is someone I can lean on. Can sensors be genuinely toxic? How do you deal with someone like that?
Alisha
I really don’t know about sensor (in terms of limerence) but they sound just like predators to me. And not the ones from another planet 🙂 But as a man, I think I can see what he is doing with you. Even without his own admittance.
I think he keeps you on a string because he does want the “benefits” of being your friend and that his ego is getting inflated by the attention you give him. And that’s fine if that’s what you both want. But it seems to be one sided from what you have posted.
That’s mostly just my opinion as a man and recognizing men’s behavior. Even if it wasn’t limerence; it was just infatuation or fascination with him I would say the same. But at the same time limerence will fog your head and you will read things differently.
If I bought coffee or donuts for the office (really for LO she liked sprinkled) her thanks for them would just melt my heart. “Adam you’re so sweet.” Oh my god …. she might as well took my hand and lead me out of the room into a fantasy world. The way her eyes would sparkle and she’d smile when she said it. When really she was just being nice and thankful for what I did; nothing more. But we don’t see it that way with the limerent fog. I remember LO bringing her daughter to work one day and they played a prank on me that really hilarious and we all got a good laugh out of it. To me that was “LO actually thought of me long enough to plan a prank on me.” When really it was probably just that she knew I wouldn’t take it the wrong way because she knows my sense of humor.
It’s very hard to determine someone else’s behavior when we can’t even accurately govern our own behavior. It may seem like he’s being malicious when maybe he is not. I’m not saying my opinion of him is right, but I am not limerent for him so I can be a little more objective about him just as anyone here could be in sizing up my LO.
“It is hard for me to believe he is malicious and cruel. Or that he is a horrible person for leading me on. I do feel he genuinely cares. He was the first to wish me happy birthday. One of the few to get me a gift. He always asks about my mental health and constantly reminds me that despite living alone with no family, I am not alone, and he is someone I can lean on. Can sensors be genuinely toxic? How do you deal with someone like that?”
He may not be malicious or cruel. I never detected the faintest hint of malice or vindictiveness in LO #2. She she could callously insensitive. It’s easier when you can detect malice or vindictiveness. I also never saw the faintest hint of regret or remorse in LO #2.
All the nice things he does maintains the attachment. Gifts are little reminders. Good ones will remind you of him forever. (Trust me) He wants to keep you in his sphere. Why? Don’t know. Maybe he doesn’t even know.
IMO, sensors can be genuinely toxic. Venomous snakes are very dangerous but they never attack out of malice. It doesn’t matter how he relates to anyone else. It only matters how he relates to you.
“However, he said he is emotionally unavailable and unable to offer me anything more than “friends with benefits.”
He set the bar and he pushes boundaries. Short of dumping your social circle, I’m not how you get rid of him. Don’t accept the gifts and minimize contact. The less access you grant him, the less influence he’ll have over you.
Keep reading.
Do you recommend getting rid of gifts that reminds of him forever? I have many gifts from toxic ex. They seldom remind about him. I don’t think I have attachment to them, less with time anyway. Otherwise there are so many stuff that remind me of different toxic people if I focus on that these things are their gifts…
“Do you recommend getting rid of gifts that reminds of him forever? I have many gifts from toxic ex.”
Not necessarily. Like most things, IMO, it depends.
Where do the gifts take you? The ones I kept from LO #2 remind me of the good times we had together and help me to remember her fondly. That helps me avoid anger and bitterness. If the gift sends you spiraling into rumination, get rid of it. Nothing like listening to your favorite LO playlist drinking the herb tea you two drank in the company cafeteria in the mug your LO gave you for feeding the beast.
Not all gifts are created equal.
Another useful consideration is do the gifts pass the IVT, Intrinsic Value Test? [An idea we learned from a professional organizer to reduce clutter] Are the gifts actually useful or worth anything? If one of the gifts was a $350 KitchenAid mixer that you use frequently and doesn’t remind you of something really unpleasant, by all means keep it. If the gift invokes a horrible memory, get rid of it. If it’s some trinket whose only value is in the memory, take a picture and put it in the Cloud. Out of sight, less clutter, but you can still retrieve the memory, if you want to.
Another consideration is whether the gift poses any risk to any other relationships you’re in? I sent LO #4 a few “tokens of appreciation.” She had me route them through her mother. I don’t know if she didn’t want me to know where she lived or she didn’t want her live-in partner to know that she was getting gifts from another man and liked them.
LO #4 never sent me anything. That was good because I didn’t have to route it via work and my wife wouldn’t ask questions that I’d have to lie about. Some things are best avoided.
I don’t think there’s a hard and fast rule for this one.
Hi Alisha, if you have other prospects, you might just move on. I can’t imagine accepting a statement like, “I can only offer you friends with benefits.” Does that mean he won’t be your friend without benefits? Why would you want that? Ewe! I have plenty of male friends who aren’t seeking benefits and they remain my friend. To me, it sounds like your LO is only willing to give you sex without any other type of relationship. That would not satisfy me. I don’t see how a woman would get satisfied like that unless he is really hot and really good in bed…maybe, but I doubt it.
Our ancestors were right when they taught us ladies to wait for marriage. You want a partner who is emotionally invested in you. I recommend that you not have sex with a man who isn’t showing signs of commitment. I think you should wait for marriage.
Good luck!
Hi, Alicia. I agree with the other commenters here: I’m not ready to call your LO malicious, but it does sound like he is keeping you around to derive the benefits of your admiration and friendship. His motivations, though, are not really key for you: what matters to you is how his treatment of him makes you feel. And he is treating you poorly and keeping you hooked, and it is hurting and confusing you. Trust me, as someone who has a very unreliable and inconsistent LO, it is truly maddening. If you can go NC, I would. Don’t accept your gifts. Remove yourself from the group chat and ask the most trusted friend in the group to keep you informed separately of any events/important updates you need to know. Find someone who can give you what you want and deserve. The very best to you.
This post raised a lot of interesting points for me. I reconnected with an ex who texted me non stop for a month, asked me to come over, flirted etc. I’m married and then got swept up in limerence with him. Told my husband I wanted to separate. Caused huge disruption to my life. A few weeks later LO said he was talking to someone new. I went NC because I didn’t want to put myself through that. I’m our final conversation he stated that everything was just exs flirting though I pointed out to him that our conversations were not strictly platonic. I’m so confused and feel so triggered by the whole thing. My marriage is on hold and I’m trying to figure out if I want to fight for it or not. I suspect this limerent episode triggered a lot there. I think he was definitely a sensor because he seemed to really relish my being attracted to him. He’s just out of a 12 year relationship so was not in a place to have a relationship either. Does anyone have insight as to what was going on here? I can’t stop thinking about this.
Hi Sharon, that is quite a story. I don’t know what your LO was thinking, but he doesn’t sound like a person who is ready for a commitment. You must feel awful! I would encourage you to talk to a mentor about it. Can you talk to your mom or an aunt? Do you have a close friend you could talk to? I would like for you to stay away from that man, but that is just my opinion.
My SO says that man is a predator and you should stay away from him.
Good luck!
I get limerent with a guy I’ve never met but we’re chatting and having some things in common. And he also checks in with me regularly and wants to see me. If I get any romantic feelings, it will get so overwhelming that I won’t be able doing what I wanted to do with him – playing music. And this is the most important for me with him. He might move later and it will be even harder then to let him go, if we start anything romantic. I have no idea how to be with my recent strong sexual/loving feelings. Trying to be there and wait until the next day not writing anything showing my feelings to him, but still we’ll apparently meet soon and I’ll be anxious, probably too smiling and even people-pleasing. Need to do some pull actions with my hand to kinda feel that I’m there now and stop people-pleasing. Didn’t practice that ever yet. A psychologist said to me: “no love during trauma therapy”…Also, to hold myself in a hug when I feel intensely that I really need them…and still…did anyone find a way to get out of limerence?
Hoping for some advice on boundary setting. A guy at my local park has offered to look after my dog during the day when I don’t always get a chance to run her. Our dogs get along well and he knows people I know. He’s a good sort. But I get a slight discomfort around him. He’s not ‘hot’ as such so not like the guys that typically get flirty because they think their worth lies entirely in their hotness but are otherwise pretty insecure. That just makes it harder for me to tell what’s going on with him.
Do I take him up on his offer? How do I put in boundaries on this? Would taking him up on the offer be leading him on in any way? This is precisely the situation that tends to lead to trouble for me but he’s not the usual type to be an issue. Doesn’t mean he’s not feeling it. He’s just better at hiding it. We haven’t exchanged numbers or socials. He’s a neighbor. I’d just put my dog in his back yard and pick her up later in the day. I’m only considering it because my work is getting super busy and my dog is suffering. He’s also pretty keen for me to do it. TBH my gut is leaning towards I shouldn’t but am I being oversensitive now?
Shari Schreiber said that your instincts will never lie to you.
If you don’t feel comfortable with this, don’t do it.
Thanks again 🙏
It’s ignoring my instincts that’s got me into trouble before so you’re right I think.
By the way, I had absolutely insane insomnia (2 hours sleep a night) for around three months which I attributed to new medication. Turns out since I quit the gym and expressed how uncomfortable I was with my trainer, I’ve slept like a log. My chiropractor was also amazed at the lack of tension in my body. It’s never been like that. I think finding the confidence to confront the limerent (even if he gaslit me) has done me the world of good. Again my instincts were flashing all sorts of warning signs that cultural norms told me to ignore and internalize 😒
Dr L,
“are there some people who really, really like inspiring love, and would exalt at being a limerent object?
Based on my latest limerence experience of with my “surrogate-parental”, platonic LO for the past 6 years (NC for two months by now for the 6th attempt), I know limerence Sensors do exist. While your article has explained a lot of confusions I had during my observations of and interactions with this LO, I still can’t figure out whether he is a covert pathological narc in denial, or an instinctual, neurochemical limerence-sensor.
If considering him as an unaware, mid-range (not overtly egotistical or malicious) narc, he comes across as genuinely courteous, warm, willing to helpful, responsible and PC, as well as highly achieved and respected professionally. Most people around us seem to have good opinions about him who even took extra loads for sick coworkers (neither my boss nor in my division). He privately admits to me that he likes “to be liked” (by all, regardless sex, gender, age, appearances) and can be very self-defensive while perceiving criticism.
If considering him as a subtle “love-Inspirer” (physically almost impeccable — 6’4’’, slim, deadly handsome with a pair of big, sweet, but also gazing blue/green eyes), he smartly flirted with and drew adoring expressions from multiple female coworkers (sometimes simultaneously as if carrying 3 pairs of eyes on his face), lied to me twice about his secret online and offline rendezvouses, denied ever had PA. Meanwhile, he tried hard to portray himself as a “faithful”, loving husband (24 yrs of marriage, “with several ‘private friendships’ on both sides…”) and a devoted father (both kids are now in an Ivy League college).
He repeatedly “declared” he just wanted a colleague-friendship with me, chitchatting when we meet at work, during the early stage of which he often got excited, energized — face lit up, eyes “lost” in mine, pupil dilated, even had a hard-on (sitting next to me in metro). Earlier I thought he was interested in me as person, particularly considering he’s a focused listener and asked caring questions, such a platonic friendship would be harmless. However, later I painfully recognized (through many push-n-pull incidents) that he was highly interested or “addicted” to my limerence-energized “chitchats” (not me)— a fuel resource.
Thus whenever I wanted to pull myself away or go NC (after having terribly suffered my limerence secretly — only heard of this term 2 weeks ago and never disclosed it to anyone, not even my shrinks), he’d try all possible means (blame shifting, yelling at me in writing, sending concerned missives, smiling to me, future faking, etc.) to hoover me back, even “begged” in email just to “return to talking with or at least acknowledging one another”, which puzzled me greatly. Why did he care so much about my superficial talks or greetings?
I pointed out to him in writing several times in 4 years that he purposefully, repeatedly let me on, attempting to extract attention, adoration and affection from me (and others), and also called him “an emotion-vampire”. He either claimed it was my misunderstandings or simply ignored my emails, and still tried his subtle “stalking” (in hallways, shared kitchen/lounge, and professional event), with his irresistible smiles and a polite greeting.
Now, he seems to have been besotted with his secret LO(s) for 1.5 yrs while carrying on a trophy’s family responsibilities, why wouldn’t he let me (and other female colleagues) go? How much fuel resource one limerence-sensor could or need to take instinctively? Could Sensors be more of polyamorous instead of limerent monogamy?
So my question: How to draw a line between a covert narc who “extracts never-sufficent adorations” and a limerence-Sensor who exultantly “inspires love”? Is one’s craving for others’ admiration or limerence neurochemical or psychological? When is it considered normal and when malicious? Can such limerence-inspriring be an obsession/addiction as well, just like limerence?
Thank you, Dr L, for this website, truly eye-opening, consoling, and encouraging!
I’m sorry you’ve been limerent for someone so seemingly lacking integrity.
You can find my posts all over this blog now but I seem to inspire limerence more often than most. I don’t enjoy it. If I realise that someone is limerent (or has a crush or whatever) I back right off. It is not inspiring love to play with another’s emotions for your own need for admiration. I can’t comment on whether he’s narcissistic, but he sure is manipulative.
The inability to take any kind of perceived criticism is also worrying. It’s a ‘protect ego at all costs’ kneejerk reaction from someone who is probably incredibly insecure at his core.
It’s just my take from what you’ve written but if you imagine a friend had written that wouldn’t you be telling him or her to run for the hills?
Thank you, Cordelia, for your insight, advice, and support!
Like you, while sensed others’ unwanted crush/limerence for me, I always firmly and clearly walked away, leaving no uncertainty or room to the other side. However, due to my previously-unaware cptsd (Mom is narc, Dad with its mild traits), I tended to ignorantly seek missed parental love and care in all my past romances or in unavailable men I limenrant with (only one at a time). In most cases (except when I felt extreme downs), I was able to go cold turkey NC, once realizing the situation was detrimental to my wellbeing.
This latest LE onset took place right after my father’s sudden, unexpected death in Dec. 2017, which immediately sunk me to a black hole. This LO (he spotted/sensed my glimmer at him 3 months prior to the time) stepped in (we also had to work on a project together for 4 months), attentively consoling me and relating to his grief of losing his father in his 20s. Soon, I unconsciously let him take a role of a surrogate-father emotionally. Of course, I was only kidding myself that it was not infatuation-related and let it continue as a parental “friendship”, which I was very grateful and thus further “hooked” by the “savior” LO, for the next 5 years….
Nearly two years ago, I began sensing this LO was wearing a highly crafted, “socially-shinny” mask to cover his deep insecurity wound. After a bit of his own verbal disclosure, I realized that I might have been dealing with a covert narc in denial (never owned what he did or apologized for his deceitful deeds and lies, even when I pointed them out in writing or to his face). Then he subtly complained that I did not do anything else (besides “nice” talking) for our “friendship” and later repeatedly hinted he was available for more (safe opportunities also came up last summer).
Feeling surreal and deeply alienated for long by his contradicting, cold&hot, sweet&cruel behaviors (there was little true friends—relating/bonding between us, my secrete LE was mostly in my dreamland quite separated from the reality, which makes me feel like carrying two IDs), I refused to get into a narc’s fuel matrix — I just hate narc too much! If I had thought him as a mere subtle, harmless Sensor or if he had cared more for me as a person (not a fuel supply), I might have given in (it was a huge temptation in my LE, but not in reality). Motives (their naming and reasons), conscious or unaware, behind one’s behaviors are very important to me before I make a step back or forth.
3 months ago, after a series of nightmares in which my subconscious devalued or even incriminated him, I calmly asked him (6th attempt) in person to erase all my missives and told him that our “friendship” was over, he agreed. But a weekend afterward and hence forward, he “stalked” me again and again in office space chitchatting with other people around. 2 months ago, NC naturally occurred due to the summer break, but soon we’ll all return in person. I question strength of my willpower to resist the narc’s charming hoover.
I also feel shaky (guilty and sad) to go a total NC because LO did help me once go through my darkest period, although I had thanked him plenty with words and a few tiny gifts, except one big piece (inexpensive but unique) — I asked it back last Spring after he lied to and yelled at me (online), declaring his narcissism and thus “legitimate” behavior, while I was lying on a waiting bed for a surgical procedure. I went NC on his face for 2 months after that, but his begging letter weakened my deeply altered, limerent mind for the 4th time — how do you kill a “savior” LO in your head once for all?
After reading Dr L’s article, I feel a dread since this LO-Sensor’s craving seems to have gone beyond personality deficits, but an instinctual, neurochemical addiction. If true, what could I do without quitting the job I enjoy or holding (or quickly switching to) an iron face while passing him in public?
Snowphoenix
Sounds traumatic. I think a lot of people here could relate. I’m at the point in my life where anyone who causes me discomfort isn’t worth worrying about.
why feel indebted to someone who did one ‘kind’ thing for you (especially when that thing was probably more self-serving than kind). If you can’t quit, I’d go iron face. Problem is it will probably cause him to ramp up the attempts to persuade you back. How hard would it be to find another job?
Feeling fundamentally flawed, inadequate in whatever we do, and indebted to anyone who has done some kind deeds to us (intended or accidental or self-serving)… are just a few of cPTSD symptoms at a subconscious or neurological level. I’m learning more about my specific individual ones.
Thank you for showing me your logical perspectives, which help examine and correct my cPTSD-skewed views.
Yes. The word “traumatic” is accurate in my case, which also caused a lot of my health issues because I’m quite psychosomatic. Fortunately, with some luck, workout discipline, and healthy diet, I’m getting stronger both in body and mind.
Currently, I’m working hard to reduce and heal my cPTSD symptoms — one of causes leading to LE. Without sufficient knowledge and clear awareness, its negative affects triggered off my abandonment melange, severe anxiety, panic attacks, and even “out-of-body” sensations… I really can’t afford ignorantly slipping into those hellish places again.
My job is in a high-education institute, you know how hard it is to find another one (with typically 200 applications). The subject I teach is also not in high demand.
Yes, I’ve decided to go iron face again, which I had done twice (both shorter than 2 months) and caused some psychosomatic reactions, e.g. fake heart problems (I wonder if it is like waning a real chemical substance addiction, I never tried any, so don’t know their p/n effects). If this LO was in my sphere within a few feet, my mind and body seemed to be instantly hijacked somewhere else with wooziness or surreal sensations, although I was able to keep chitchatting short or long. I had been so puzzled until I read half of this website, thanks to Dr L. So I think the only way to go NC is still to hold up my shaky body and heart (LO told me that I looked very uncomfortable during last two NC), while perhaps remembering those tears I shed on the surgical bed and going an internal chant, “he’s a narc, he’s a narc….” I’ll let you know how it goes in 4 weeks.
Thank you again, Cordelia, for listening and fast responding, which makes me feel much less alone in this dreamy land of limerence stumbling like a drunkard for so long.… 🙃 I felt too embarrassed to tell anyone around me.
No problem. I really hope you can overcome the manipulation. I agree that treating yourself well (intense workouts, eating and sleeping well) are key. definitely helps with your ability to avoid people who aren’t good for you!
Good luck!
Does anyone know how to retrieve a post, edit it, and repost it in this website? Or is a post permanent once posted? Thanks.
Pretty sure it’s permanent, once posted. I wish it wasn’t, but I haven’t found a way to retrieve yet.
MJ, Thanks for confirm!
That means we need to edit and sleep on a post for a while (I edit/change my messages a lot within 24-48hours, as a way to learn/clarify and understand my thoughts and emotions — our LE brain is a big mumbo-jumbo most of time), before posting it here; otherwise, we will have to learn how to Live with Regret, while Living with Limerence….
Dr L: I wish there is a solution to this technical shortage.
If there’s a problem like you posted your name or other information, you can contact DrL and he can delete/redact it.
But, otherwise, no. Once it’s posted, it’s there. A lot of sites don’t allow editing after a set time. It prevents gaslighting.
For a long/detailed post, I write it in MS Word and paste it in.
Hey y’all. Have not posted for a while now, have been going through the forums though, lots of useful advice thanks to all. Thought I would share my thoughts/experience now. Have been in an LE for well over a year now. Both are committed, so natural barriers exist. Not much has happened, some flirting and eye contact both ways. The symptoms – intrusive thoughts, feeling low seem to have gotten better, partly due to NC/LC (there are not many opportunities for contact). There are moments of feeling low that appear all of a sudden, but generally go away after a while. What a roller coaster! Going forward, would really welcome advise on how to manage the recovery process, and especially how to navigate/regulate my emotions when there is contact. Thanks for listening and all the best to all members.
Hi ABCD
There’s no fast way to recovery from LEs, but you can train your mind to look at it in a more realistic way, if possible.
Here’s a quote for you or any other in the same situation:
“ STOP IGNORING ACTIONS AND TRUSTING WORDS. Stop giving your all to a person who gives you nothing. Stop hanging on to someone who has let go of you. Stop expecting change from a person who doesn’t want to be changed. Stop letting the fear of loneliness cause you to settle for less than what you deserve. Stop letting the wrong reasons keep you in a relationship that isn’t right for you . Stop breaking your own heart.” (Trenton Shelton)
“Educating the mind without educating your heart is no education at all.” Aristotle
Good luck and lots of courage and strength.
Thank you Nisor, both the quotes make a lot of sense. A major part of the challenge in getting out of LE is letting go of the fantasy, and becoming more attuned to reality. Perhaps the mind believes what one wants it to believe. For me, progress is there (I think), but is slow, hopefully it will be steady.
I like these quotes, Nisor. The problem is, how do you know if you’re in a relationship that isn’t right for you? I thought I was in the best relationship for me; that it wasn’t necessarily what I wanted but what I needed. But now I’m not sure. You can’t have everything, right? So I should let go of one of my needs because the others are being met?
C for Cat
I see you’re questioning everything… that’s a sign of maturity. You’re looking for correct answers in order to make the right choices.
No one said life is easy. To choose a partner for life is very difficult because we’re all imperfect human beings. So we choose the best bet . Choosing is like the roulette , you bet to win, but sometimes you lose…The most important thing is that you’re loved and respected, valued for what you’re and given space to breathe. The rest you can work it out together.
Sending hugs and l❤️
I like the first one Nisor. I like a lot of it. But it breaks my heart to think LO is like that. Yet, I don’t have much else to go on.
Oh the $#!+ reality of limerence.. 😪
Good morning MJ
Hang in there, good things come to those who wait…
My Lo married again at 63 to a wonderful woman. (3rd marriage ) In between marriages he was “single” 16 years. So it’s never too late for anyone.
But he was never afraid to approach a lady. He had his debonair…
So there’s hope for you to find a fine lady to deposit all your love .
Have faith in yourself, and hope against hope, never stop dreaming for a better future. Things will change , you’ll see. Believe it and it will come true. Blessings
Sorry about hijacking this thread. Tried to add my comment to another thread, but for some reason, the comment does not show up.