Clara is a midlifer who – in a story familiar to regular readers – fell unexpectedly into limerence for a co-worker. Swept away by emotion, she started an affair.
“I knew it was wrong but thought I could keep it separate from my home life with my husband and kids. I wanted to believe I could have a secret second life and it wouldn’t hurt anyone.”
She failed. Her husband found out when the affair partner sent explicit texts to Clara and he saw her phone.
“Since then I’ve ended the affair and recommitted to my marriage. I still have to work with my LO but try to avoid him at work. My husband has insisted that I don’t text him and I’m sticking to that but my LO is still pushing though and wants to restart the affair. The problem is I’ve tried all the tactics for limerence recovery and none of them work I read your book and it made sense but I can’t go no contact and the daymare method just make me feel anxious. I’ve already disclosed to my husband and am being honest but he is just angry and won’t talk about it. I keep trying to force myself to feel bad about LO but it doesn’t work and I can’t stop looking at his IG because I want to know what’s going on with him now. I don’t know what else to try and am feeling desperate.”
Clara’s case could almost be used as a Rorschach test for attitudes towards infidelity. Some people will read this short passage and condemn her unequivocally. Others will read it and declare her marriage dead. Still more will find fault with her snooping husband, and with monogamous marriage as an institution. When I received Clara’s message, I oscillated between compassion and irritation.
First, she is obviously suffering. In fact, everyone is suffering – such are the fruits of betrayal. Nevertheless, Clara is trapped in a mental prison of anguish that she can’t escape, even if she built it herself.
Second, Clara’s husband is also trapped in a hell of hypervigilance and insecurity, and has reacted by setting an ultimatum in order to try and impose some control on the situation. He might not be acting patiently and stoically, but that’s pretty understandable and, frankly, his needs take precedence right now if the marriage is going to be salvaged.
Third, there are kids involved and so any seismic decisions will change their lives forever too.
(Another rule of thumb about infidelity is that there is harm everywhere you look).
OK, back to practicalities. Is there any advice that can be offered? What can be done?
Time for some patented, LwL unsentimental compassion in big, bold letters:
You cannot recover from limerence if you don’t want to
Clara did not disclose to her husband; she was found out. She has not negotiated an open and mutual agreement about appropriate boundaries, she has followed the letter of the ultimatum (no texting) while clearly breaching the spirit (browsing Instagram). She has verbally recommitted to her marriage, but not actually made any serious effort to change her behaviour.
She is hanging in limerent limbo. It’s an outward performance of choosing her family but an inward reality of not wanting to let go of that illusory “second life”. She wants her family, but she also wants her affair. The decision to end it was forced onto her by circumstances; it did not originate in a personal, emotional transformation.
Her motives for trying the limerence recovery techniques were obligation and duty, not genuine remorse coupled to a hope for renewal. She thinks she should want to recover. That’s not the same as wanting to recover.
LO is still haunting her thoughts, and not as a grisly spectre that can be used to spur escape, but as a romantic spirit that she has been forcibly separated from, but who is still seeking her love.
Attempts to devalue LO have failed, and it’s hard to believe that it’s because he is too good to find flaws, given that he is obviously willing to undermine a family for his own sexual needs. More likely, it’s because of her resistance to spoiling the giddy, intoxicating memories by tainting them with negativity.
The best advice I have for Clara is this: start being honest with yourself. You need to face some of the painful truths that define your situation.
- Your “second life” is poisoning your family
- Commitment involves personal sacrifice
- You have to be honest with your husband about how you feel
- False agreements are worse than disagreements
- Half-hearted attempts to “recover” will train you into a pattern of failure
Fundamentally, it’s not possible to recover from limerence without adopting a recovery mindset. You have to honestly believe that your life will be better on the other side of limerence to escape its pull for good. Without addressing what made you psychologically vulnerable in the first place, it’s not likely that lasting change will be possible.
Psychological deprogramming techniques may work in shifting you out of the patterns of thought and behaviour that reinforce limerence for a while, but you’ll just slide right back into the old habits once you relax your discipline unless there is a positive drive carrying you towards a more purposeful life.
The resolution of Clara’s problems won’t come from finding a clever mental “hack” that tricks her brain into not wanting LO anymore – it lies in reaching some serious, sincere, and probably painful decisions about who she wants to be and what sort of life she wants to live.
Deprogramming is great for getting you out of the altered state of mind that defines limerence, but the lasting cure is purposeful living. There has to be some larger goal that you are working towards to carry you through the withdrawal pains – a positive vision of the future that is better than languishing in limerence limbo. Your feelings have to align with your thoughts. You have to believe that a life without LO will be better.
Without the choice to take control, to take action to make your life better, limerence will continue to decide your family’s fate. Freedom depends on developing a proper, deep understanding of who you are and what you need to thrive.
Until then, you’ll stay trapped by craving – outwardly protesting that you wish it would stop, but inwardly doing little more than weakly resisting, and secretly wanting to give in.
Oh, wow, what a dilemma, I feel incapable to take an opinion on this subject! Probably after I read it a few times. This is what happens if one doesn’t stop the situation on time. It has terrible consequences…
Have a great weekend you all .
Gee, Clara needs to revalue her life and see what’s she really wants out of it.
1- If she wants to keep her marriage, she has to definitely forget about LO and work towards fixing what’s wrong in their marriage.
2-Depending on her/his values, principles and moral standards, they can talk it over and open their marriage…(if “dead” bedroom situation.) or,
3- If she cannot let go of the affair, she can ask for divorce and be free to have the affair.
You choose…
It’s a matter of being realistic and truthful to oneself. What do you want?
Freedom, or sacrifice for the sake of the marriage? You cannot possibly have both , without chaos in the household. You cannot live a double life without having a lot of damage and suffering behind you.
These are the questions a limerent has to ask himself/herself before letting a “glimmer” take over their emotional system. Nipping it at the bud; the flirtation feels great and the euphoria even greater but, think to where it can take you and everyone involved. It’s a life changer, playing with fire, getting comfortable with it. Some people like that… it sounds egotistical and unfair to the spouse and the children . Some think they can get away with it, but sooner or later they will get discovered, like Clara …
It’s a matter of time. There’s a saying: Nothing stays hidden under the sun that will not come to the light.
I have never had an affair but I can certainly relate as a working Mum with a long running workplace LE. So much of our time and mental energy can get wrapped up with our work and once thoughts of LO become fully entwined with that it becomes incredibly hard to move past the LE, even if you do genuinely want to. I can’t imagine how much worse that is if you have actually tasted the limerent nectar and thus become very close to LO.
Depending on your circumstances, being a wife & mother can compound this problem as the choices available to you to create a sufficiently purposeful life are often limited by scarcity of time and energy. It is no simple task to find a way to experience the levels of novelty and excitement that may be required to replace limerent euphoria. Throw into the mix the dynamic of an SO that is (unwittingly) likely to make you feel bad about yourself vs an LO that makes you feel great about yourself… it’s a tough spot.
Personally, I think she needs to change jobs and go full NC if she is to save her marriage.
I must also add – kudos to the SO for being prepared to constructively move past the affair and make things work. I sincerely hope it works out for them.
I agree with you, she needs to quit the job if she really means it. Also, I find this particular truth bomb an important point for my own reflection as a midlife limerent who kinda loves being in an LE and fantasising about my LO and if being honest I like that the LO is ‘mine’ to keep:
“inwardly doing little more than weakly resisting, and secretly wanting to give in.”
Besides the actual physical affair happening, this is almost verbatim my story. My husband saw a generic text from this man, and blew up. 😑
I tried finding another job, but the saving grace was that this person left before I had to a chance to move jobs. I was forced into “no contact” in both ways — my spouse, and my LO#1.
She may have to consider moving jobs. And, of course, no contact. It took me a year or so to feel free from this experience. The situation was forced on me, but I now see it as a great thing that my husband protected me from myself. It probably took my husband two years to trust me again.
This was long before I knew what limerence was.
We had a friendship, he declared he was in love with me… but deep down I knew I could not leave my marriage or kids for him.
Even if she doesn’t feel like it, going through the “motions” of trying to get out of limerence might help set her on the path to recovery.
Wishing her the best 💙
Purposeful living in this context is tied to the “3Rs,” Regret, Remorse, and Repentance.
I told the therapist that I never saw the faintest hint of regret or remorse in LO #2. After reading my history of the relationship, her response was that the reason I didn’t see it was because there wasn’t any. The therapist also added that I shouldn’t expect that to have ever changed.
As Shari Schreiber put it, “Healing is only possible, when someone you’ve hurt (even unwittingly) can feel your sincere remorse. While this process won’t be easy, it can go a long way toward helping you repair any relationship where trust has been undermined.” – https://sharischreiber.com/do-you-love-to-be-needed/
Maybe Clara can have it both ways. A lot of that depends how how much tolerance her SO has. But, if she can’t, she needs to be prepared to live with the consequences of her choices.
If she lives in a “fault state,” things could get very ugly for her very quickly. I live in a “fault state.” The attorney I consulted said if I could prove adultery, he could be in front of a judge in 24 hours. The property settlement and custody arrangement would take longer but we’d be negotiating as single people. The law was very clear on that. In my state, the county you file in makes a big difference. Some are more men friendly than others. A Navy buddy moved a few miles so he could file in a different county where a woman got what she was legally entitled to, no more. In another state, adultery is grounds for forfeiture of community property and spousal support.
It comes down to the question a lot of us have had to face, who and what is important to us.
Hi Clara, I bet you are really suffering right now. You crossed a boundary with your LO and you can’t have him in your life anymore. Let go. Pick your husband. Be faithful and loyal from now on. You have a long, difficult recovery ahead. I hope you and your husband get through it and emerge stronger than ever. Please look into “Marriage Helper.” They can help you.
Something that stood out to me in Dr L’s article is that you think you “…should want to recover. That’s not the same as wanting to recover.” True, but wanting to want recovery is a start. You have the desire to do better and you can.
I must be brutally honest with you, Clara. Your LO has low standards. He is willing to break up a family. He isn’t supporting you in your efforts to repair your family. He is disrespectful to a fellow man by pursuing his wife. I’m not impressed. CHOOSE YOUR HUSBAND! You aren’t thinking straight right now, but you will have clarity as time passes. DO THE RIGHT THING NO MATTER HOW YOU FEEL. Your husband is hurt and angry but he offered you a second chance. Take it. LOVE YOUR HUSBAND UNSELFISHLY. LOVE YOUR CHILDREN UNSELFISHLY. You didn’t mean to hurt anyone. You thought you could keep this secret and it wouldn’t affect anyone else. You were wrong. You messed up. Do the right thing now and stop hurting others.
That’s what I would say to me if I were in your situation. I’m glad that I’m not in your position because I never want to be the kind of woman who selfishly destroys a family. (I know that’s harsh. I believe that you need a harsh wake up call.)
This will sound weird after I was so harsh, but I want you to join our club. I believe healing happens in community. We can try to keep you on track while you process your LE. If you don’t join us, please get help somewhere. “Affair Recovery” might be a good place to start.
You have value. You can recover from this. We can walk this journey with you.
“You cannot recover from limerence if you don’t want to. … She is hanging in limerent limbo. It’s an outward performance of choosing her family but an inward reality of not wanting to let go of that illusory “second life”. ”
Truer words were never written. You can do all the right things externally but inwardly still be hanging on.
This is so true. Unless one wants to get out of LE from the inside, one can’t get out of it. As Lovisa said, wanting to get out is a good start, and counts for something.
A conundrum for sure!
Dr. L is completely on point “You cannot recover from Limerence if you don’t want too”
I didn’t have the complications of a SO or children to contend with, thank goodness! Limerence is difficult enough on it’s own.
BUT, time, NC and working (really hard) on yourself to build a better life pays off.
No Contact was extremely hard but I think that was the crux of it, at least for me.
It gives your brain a little break to assess the situation
I feel for everyone that can’t go NC or LC.
But everyone does what they can do.
Acceptance also played a big part.
I say “When life gives you Limerence, make Limerade”
I got into nearly the exact situation last summer (except I had a PA and an LO, both are coworkers) and I struggled for six months to get out of it. Each bout of intimacy with the PA brought me more shame and guilt and I was more resolved to fight against the demons of my midlife crisis. It’s been six months of no contact save acknowledging each other most mornings with a simple “good morning, ___.” The situation with the LO is also mostly resolved too, though I would very much like to have a deep, non-romantic friendship with him.. for his sake since he seems to be deteriorating without any close female friends or family to look after him… I still have hope but it fades slowly (it’s God’s will not mine!). Last year at this time I went to confession and told the priest I couldn’t imagine being married to my husband for another 20 years. He didn’t judge me… he told me it’s okay that I can’t change how I feel, to have patience, keep seeking God’s will (fake it till you make it???) to let him surprise me (boy, this year has been surprising!). I made very grave mistakes along the way but I did keep trying and it’s been extremely fruitful: my marriage remained in tact, we’re both happier, stronger (as a couple and individuals). Not perfect but more settled and content and that’s enough for us.
I say “When life gives you Limerence, make Limerade” Anna, I love this and think I should get a tattoo of it.
This a sobering case study. No judgement, just self-reflection and self-evakuation.
For me who has been feeling sad about the unrequited limerence/uncertainty of LOs feelings, and loss of friendship, I need to take stock and think seriously, if the feelings were reciprocated, would I have been able to resist submitting to them? I’m not too sure. There by the grace of God go I!
We should all get tattoo’s drink a glass of wine and rejoice that we can come here and get support from each other.
It’s a Godsend!
You said “if the feelings were reciprocated, would I have been able to resist submitting to them?”
My opinion? A Big No
That’s fuel for Limerence and even though you want reciprocation (desperately)
it will only keep you stuck on that merry-go-round.
LOL trust me and most everyone here, that’s bad news!
I don’t know your story WhoompThereItIs (love your name)
Nip it in the bud if you can
It’s hard, it’s very, very hard
But somewhere down the line you will find yourself again and maybe (like me) discover WHY this has happened to you.
Life will give us hardships and it’s up to us to figure out why, because trust me, there is a reason.
New to the limerent experience here, have been following the page for the last couple of months, after Dr. Google told me I might be experiencing limerence.
Since finding this group, I can say with certainty that I am limerent and may be experiencing mutual limerence towards my LO boss.
He is an interesting, intelligent, mature, calm, reserved, quiet, introverted, and serious man. He is not a man of praise. When he hired me, he remarked how charming I am, and that I have a personality that makes him want to be my best friend. He is singing my praise to the upper mgmt, steadily praising me for my work, expressing how lucky they are to have hired me, is super supportive in my development, I could literally ramble on for days. The other management have remarked how highly he speaks of me, as it’s out of his usual character. This amongst many other interactions reinforces the thoughts that we could have mutual LE’s going on.
It became my mission to get him to open up, find out his interests, joke around, earn his trust, have deep conversations and build a friendship with LO. Similar to The Taming of the Shrew. He would open up to me about things that I sense he is usually closed about.
We got to a place of sharing some messed up childhood stories, I knew we had mutual trust. It felt special.
Thinking about LO multiple times a day felt justified. Then I learned about limerence. Neither of us are currently free to explore each other romantically.
I realized how selfish my feelings were and that my behaviors in feeding my limerent beast were non-productive.
Very recently, we had a mgmt structure change and LO is no longer my direct leader. This is bittersweet, I’ve never felt better in my life, as I have being in a LE with the LO, but the relief of not having to initiate NC is the interruption we both didn’t know we needed. LO has reinforced self confidence, feminism, decisiveness etc. which have been absent all of my life.
I have read enough here to have curbed my thoughts on disclosure; I now understand that it’s not worth the risks.
Now that I’m in a place where I know that I need to do some work and move on to keep a healthy professional relationship, I’m here to ask if anyone has experience with therapy to work through their experiences?
From what I’m gathering, there is very little information online about it, which makes it difficult to know who has the qualifications to dive deeper into the topic and the root causes.
I’ve caught myself and am checking myself. I know the right thing to do is to work through my other, bigger issues so that this doesn’t become a repeat offense.
Also, want to say how much I love this community, and Dr. L., your work and resources are invaluable. Thank you!
Hello Inertia. Welcome to LwL. If I hear you correctly, you reduced contact with your LO? In my experience, no contact / reduced contact is the best option as you work through LE, if at all it is possible. Interactions with LO just tend to flare up all those limerent feelings. I guess some of the members here may have been to therapy, not sure which ones. I’m sure they will come forward and assist you. My advice is to use the no contact to build up your resilience, good luck!
Welcome to our club, Inertia!
Limerent Emeritus is a great resource to talk to about therapy for limerence. Hopefully he’ll see your post.
Hi Inertia,
I had some therapy during limerence, but we didn’t know what it was until I read the book. The therapy was with people in my faith group, and mostly gave me room to talk about what I was learning from the book. It was very helpful to have someone listen as I processed my thoughts feelings.
Hi, Inertia,
Welcome to LwL!
DrL has a blog on therapy. https://livingwithlimerence.com/therapy-for-limerence/
From my personal experience, I found therapy very helpful subject to a few caveats.
– I had good therapists. Therapists are a lot like plumbers. We usually only look for them in a crisis, they vary widely in expertise and ability, we automatically confer expert status on them, and we usually go with the first one who returns our call.
– I had a good idea of the problem I was trying to solve by the time I saw a therapist. I was trying to solve a problem in my marriage which led to delving into exploring my relationship with an ex-girlfriend (LO #2), which eventually led to delving into my childhood relationship with mother and others. Along the way, I encountered LO #4, which led to an EA/LE. I discovered limerence pretty much at the end of things because the EAP counselor I was working with labeled me as a co-dependent but co-dependence didn’t fit the dynamics of the EA/PA I had with LO #4.
– Few therapists seem to have heard of limerence and even fewer seem to understand it. So, if you try to bring limerence into the discussion with one, you’re likely to end up being disappointed. That’s why knowing the problem you’re trying to solve is really important. If they want to label you as co-dependent, my suggestion is to say that co-dependence doesn’t really seem to fit but if the treatment helps, it helps. You can google the difference if you want to.
– What’s your goal in therapy? Dr. Marion Solomon contends that when many people enter therapy, they’re not seeking real change. They’re looking to become comfortable in their current pathology. You’re paying the therapist. Depending on the quality of the therapist, they can do either. In my experience, most seem to be better at the latter than the former.
– I went into therapy to make my marriage better. By the time I did, I had a reasonable idea of what the problem was but not why the problem existed and how I got to where I was. My EA/LE with LO #4 had the potential to cause a lot of damage to my marriage. The EA/LE showed that while I understood a lot more from my work on LO #2, the vulnerability still existed. If LO #2 lived 25 miles away instead of 2500 miles away, things could have played out much differently to a much worse end. I wasn’t good, I was lucky.
Therapy is like a lot of things. It can be of great benefit, it can pretty much be a benign waste of time and money, and in some cases, it can make things worse. Sometimes, no therapist is better than a bad therapist.
From your post, I recommend you take a look at https://sharischreiber.com/do-you-love-to-be-needed/ . It’s a great article. If you see something in there that you relate to, you can start pulling strings. Again, in my experience, if you start pulling those strings, that’s when you might need to call in the pros.
Good luck and keep reading!
Correction: “If LO #2 lived 25 miles away instead of 2500 miles away, things could have played out much differently to a much worse end.”
LO #2 should be LO #4.
I did a year of therapy starting after about 2 months of my LE becoming very distressful to me. I did it mainly as an outlet to talk to someone about what was going on and not necessarily to look for a quick fix. I never brought up the word limerence directly though I talked about all the symptoms I was experiencing. My therapist was really good at connecting things I was going through now to my childhood and early adulthood. I think I discovered a lot about myself through therapy and I found it to be a positive experience. We didn’t come up with much solution to the actual limerence other than to say try to limit contact which falls in line with most advice here at LwL.
I think if you are looking for therapy to solve your problem you will be disappointed. If you are looking for therapy to help discover and understand yourself better it could open up amazing revelations to you.
Best wishes.
My story isn’t too different to others. I had been speaking to a coworker on and off virtually professionally but sometimes with small personal talk. I saw him in person and instantly felt the glimmer. I received compliments and attention from him, he even seemed impressed with me. I’ve been married for over 10 years with children and for the first time in a long time I felt seen and attractive. May have all been imagined. Interactions were positive and it was interesting getting to know someone new. It was fun and gave me a dopamine hit. It became an addiction and a problem and I kept seeking the attention and interaction. Through it we became friends but now that I’m on the other side I realise that my interpretation and judgement was likely impaired slightly. But I do believe there was a genuine friendship there for a time. He did see me through some difficult times at work and even helped me with seeking a new job. He seemed genuinely sad when I left. He took me for lunch. This just fed the friend narrative. I’ve been fortunate enough to be able to speak to a girlfriend about it. Most recently she said to me – ‘doesnt matter his views or his position, you don’t want an affair and you can’t be friends.’
This is staying with me despite the thoughts of wanting the friendship to continue. We can’t be friends. It won’t work. I would never have fair expectations and I would be unreasonably disappointed at anything slightly negative.
Looking back there were nice times but the stress has been debilitating. I haven’t shared any of it with my SO as I know the fallout wouldn’t be worth it especially as I’m aware of it now and am committed to NC. Saying that, if i mentioned LO casually, SO is visibly uneasy. I have now deleted all past messages, I found I was regularly looking back at them to relive the nice times. I haven’t removed LO from social media and I feel that will raise too many questions. I think the answer is to remove myself from it completely. I do use LE/LO as a mood regulator and I am INFJ personality type🙈 it’s all so sad but it’s a self reflecting and learning experience for sure.
Still can’t see any reasons being with a man who you do not love, although he’s a father to your kids and bla bla bla. Life is not something permanent or it’s not obliged to be at least. Limerence is a gift and a powerful force that can help rebuilt boring life and be with your LO and in Clara’s case it is quite real! She’s trying to be good when she should be trying to be true to herself. Yes, I see no problem in loving anyone at all and those who you’re not married to, it’s ok.
My thoughts are that both Clara and her SO have to focus on their relationship together, not just Clara trying to close a chapter on her PA.
They have to think about their couples history of why they married, their partnership now and their future.
Did they marry in true love or as good friends ? Have they grown apart due to life and children triggering this LE, or is everything fantastic and this LE is a shock to everyone ?
So I think Clara can’t just shut down her LE and associated emotions because ‘it’s the right thing to do’ . She has to truly love her SO and believe in rebuilding on her marriage from her heart. This is above others in her life including LO and her children.
She cannot do that on her own either, her SO has to believe too, not just go through the motions of marriage.
Maybe they need couples therapy.
Best wishes to Clara if she reads this and the contributions from the LwL community.
“…limerence will continue to decide your family’s fate.”
Not true. Half-hearted attempts are insulting and her husband can probably smell it a mile away. Clara’s spouse can still decide that her behavior then and now is unacceptable and seek a divorce. After all, she sandbagged him and there is a remarkable lack of empathy for the hurt she caused with her actions.
If they divorce the positive is that both will then be mostly free of one another and free to seek new intimate relationships. Depends on the ages of the kids. Maybe they’re old enough to walk from one vehicle to the other without an adult chaperone.
Her co-worker can affect their marriage directly (continuing to contact her – apparently she can’t block him) and indirectly (filing a complaint with HR). Even if there is no traction, it can affect Clara’s job prospects within the organization. Maybe it won’t. They aren’t likely to care as long as it doesn’t impact their bottom line.
Clara
Take it from a man that DID nearly ruin his marriage and family because of limerence for another woman. Do know that finding her name in my facebook search hurt my wife. Do know that hearing her husband speaking LOs name in my sleep hurt her. Know that I do NOT have the same respect from my sons that I use to do to what I did to their mother. You HAVE to get over him. You can’t pretend to. It will come out subconsciously and in the worst ways. You can’t have LO and a family. It poisons every part of your life if you can’t let it go. It’s been damn near two years for me. And I called my wife of 24 years by LO’s name this weekend. It will cloud every aspect of your life if you do not truly want to get over this. If not, then walk away. It is not fair to your husband. I wasn’t fair to my wife. Maybe think how you’d feel with another woman on your husband’s mind. The obsessive thought of another woman constantly on his mind.
And while I have made the mistake a few times in two years since I last saw her, DO NOT make the fatal mistake of social media. It is the worst poison in the world if you are going to make it through this. I’ll put myself on the chopping block; I looked her up on Instagram checking my usual feed this weekend. She didn’t have one. But I did it. Drunk? Sure. Not an excuse. This will no doubt stay with you the rest of your life. It will be a daily struggle. Everyday your husband, and my wife, stand by us is a testament to the integrity they have for our marriages. But one day will be the last day. And everyday we put LO above SO could be the day they walk out the door. And do you want to test if LO will be there on that day for you? I know she won’t. She walked out of my life almost two years without giving me a second thought. Yet my wife is here trying to make it work. That’s love beyond what we limerents deserve.
It’s been 2 years and you called your wife by your LO’s name this weekend? Wow, that’s rough!… I did this a few weeks ago for only the second time in my life. When I was shy of 20 I started dating a wonderful young man I’d been in love with for my first year of university, but unfortunately one evening I called him by my former boyfriend’s name (we had broken up just a few months earlier). I kid you not it instantly tainted my new, perfect relationship. Though we were (mostly) together for five years (and engaged for 7 months), he sadly never could get over that moment and I had to end the relationship even though I still thought the world of him. This last time happened as I was waking up from some sort of bad dream. I woke up with some sort of fear and I called out my LO’s name, but I couldn’t tell you which of us I was afraid for. I was in shock that I did this… and I was terrified that my poor husband heard me.. I reached over and put my hand on his chest and he reactively put his hand on top of mine and started snoring (all was well!).
SJ,
That’s a horror story! If my SO had an LO, I’d know, for he talks a lot, and in detail, in his sleep. Thanks God, I don’t speak in my dreams. Nor do I have any dreams concerning LO. Oh, the mind, playing games on us! Who can explain that??? For ever a mystery…
Best wishes.
SJ
I have multiple times in the past (before finding this community and understanding limerence) had spoken her name in my sleep. My wife is a bit of an insomniac so she heard it every time it happened. My issue is that I don’t talk things out, especially in regards to this woman, that my wife already has suspicions about, and that is how it surfaced. Unspoken things come to the surface no matter how much you try to bury them. Or drown them in my case.
She was very forgiving this time. Asking why and what. Not upset or angry. Just wanting to know if there had been some trigger that made it happen. Something she might have said. Imagine calling your wife by another woman’s name who she already had suspicions about and NOT taking it out on me but wondering if it was something she did to cause it.
Adam, there does seem to be a trigger, doesn’t it? When I experience any sort of fear, anxiety or loneliness I experience more limerence. I found out yesterday that my husband has some sort of bleeding in his GI tract (and abdominal cancers run in his family) so guess what happened at work today? I considered all the people that would possibly be willing to be with me if I lost my SO! Good grief… I even told my husband this when I got home from work and he just gave me a big hug and reassured me everything was going to be fine, even if they really aren’t. I could lose him and shack up with another, but the kind of love SO gives me isn’t replaceable… sounds like your wife’s too…
SJ,
wishing you and your SO the best! Hope it’s something harmless!
The night before my wedding, I was having a drink with my best man and his wife. I made the comment that, “It’s hard to believe that in less than 24 hours I’ll be married to [LO #2’s name].”
He said, “I hope to God that name doesn’t cross your lips tomorrow.”
Have you seen Ross’s vows to Emily in the sitcom “Friends”?
I am sure you have. Your situation sounds like you slayed that monster just in time – phew!!!
Oh, gosh Limerent Emeritus, what a blunder! Were you concerned on the wedding day? That’s even a greater boo-boo!
My husband called me by my sister’s name on my wedding day.
I had asked LO #2 to marry me. She declined, became a gypsy nurse and moved across the country. When I asked her if she was coming back, her reply was, “I don’t think so.” I’m 1-1 in marriage proposals. If I ever go back on the market, I might ask another woman to marry me just to break the tie.
So, we broke up. All LO #2 needed to do was to say something like she’d thought about things and, while we had some great times, she didn’t think we were meant to go the distance, wished me luck, and stayed gone.
But, she didn’t. She play me for another year. My friend, the LCSW who knew LO #2 when we were dating, said that I’d never mourned for the relationship and rolled right from LO #2 into my wife. My friend said that for a rebound relationship, we did really well.
Marcia and I had quite an exchange on this subject in a previous post.
I wasn’t overtly concerned on my wedding day but it took me two decades and two therapists to get rid of that ghost.
What is it about weddings? Perfectly well-adjusted people lose the plot. It the nerves I suppose. It seems like everyone has a story!
LE, apparently, these ghosts take a long time to get rid of. They’re stubborn and live rent free in the minds of the limerents… you had to pay with money and time to evacuate yours. I’ll see how long mine is going to stay rent free in my head…
Glad you didn’t mention LOs name on the wedding day.
Good day to you.
Dear Dr. L,
Thank you for another insightful blog. It helps me to find clarity when I’m not being realistic with myself. Recently I went NC, but I know I previously gave my email address to my LO and even though I know they will never use it, the fact that I know I provided it leaves that 1% sliver of “hope” that my LO will reach out. I tried once and failed to delete the account and if I’m being honest with myself it’s because I’m consciously or subconsciously holding out for that “hope”. It won’t end, though, unless I want it to end, as I just learned. I have to delete the account to delete for good this LE/LO from my existence. Thanks for the reality check!
I feel for Clara very much. My emotional affair bordered on physical for a year, until we both decided to stop all communication. Before that, we had half-heartedly tried to separate, but didn’t really commit to it, so we kept reconnecting and “breaking up.” It’s been quite an awful rollercoaster. The highs are so addictive. The lows are so painful.
For me, speaking with a counsellor has been invaluable. She helped me feel my feelings and face my true life goals over and over, and in a way I had not been able to by myself.
Also, when the feelings for my LO are too strong and I feel like I’m going to die if I don’t see him, I journal and journal and journal. That helps me get through the day. One day at a time.
Finally, I read an article about ending affairs that recommended making a list of 100 reasons why the affair is not good for me and re reading it regularly. That helps too.
None of it is easy. It’s a long, long slog through sadness and yearning and wishing for that second fantasy life, but I am 6 weeks in to no contact and my heart has stopped aching most of the time, I’m finding joy in things I’d lost interest in, and I have hope.
Marriage counselling and spending time with my spouse is also helping me see what I have and that I don’t want to lose it.
I wish for Clara, and all limerence sufferers, the strength and patience and hope needed to live their real lives with the people who love them and leave the fantasy behind to die.
Hello Deirdre. All of what you said resonates with me. We get stuck in the loop of highs and lows, as we look to LO for validation. I’ve experienced that whenever there is a high, a low is just around the corner. NC definitely helps put one’s mind towards other stuff and to flatten the highs and lows. You are also so right about wanting to live the fantasy life. All the best to you.
“Her motives for trying the limerence recovery techniques were obligation and duty, not genuine remorse coupled to a hope for renewal. She thinks she should want to recover. That’s not the same as wanting to recover.”
“The resolution … lies in reaching some serious, sincere, and probably painful decisions about who she wants to be and what sort of life she wants to live.”
True and true.
I found in all this, that one has to be very clear about the difference between what you THINK you should want, and what you actually WANT. There’s a lot of cognitive dissonance to overcome, especially if your self-concept is strongly tied to whatever it is you THINK you should want. For example, due to cultural conditioning, religion, personal morals, romantic ideals, etc. some may believe that they SHOULD want to be a loyal, faithful spouse, and that is why they SHOULD give up LO. But they don’t really WANT to.
Sometimes, the thing that you actually want is PERIPHERAL: eg. don’t want to break up family for children’s sake, don’t want to hurt SO, don’t want the societal shame, don’t want to be the one to give up, etc. That is NOT the same as wanting to be with SO. That is NOT the same as not wanting LO. That means that if all those peripheral barriers go away, you are left with what you ACTUALLY want.
Therefore, one needs to ask themselves the question: what do you want MORE? You cannot have your cake and eat it too (unless you have an affair like Clara, and Dr L is right, there is hurt all round in that – my personal litmus test of whether to do something or not).
In my own case, the peripheral wants override – no way am I hurting my kids and SO with some sordid affair. At least that was clear. However, I also had to face the truth that I did not want my SO. And I wanted LO. Wanting LO is one thing; it was HAVING LO that would hurt my family. So, I knew I would never “have” LO – I wouldn’t be the person I thought I was if I ever did that to my loved ones. So, that was clear as well. I could not control the want (not directly, anyway, though I was trying to deprogram) but what I did or did not do about it was within my control and on me. Okay, clear on where the responsibility lies, too. Then finally, dealing with not wanting SO. That was a hard, and bitter conclusion to come to, and no less painful, but ultimately, I think that was why I fell into limerence for another in the first place. I no longer wanted to be in my marriage. For itself, not for peripheral reasons either. I had to square that fact on balance with the “do not want to hurt loved ones”.
There is one other issue: I did not want to hurt ME. In all the balancing, I needed to think about this one life I had, and what I really wanted to with it, and the cost of being inauthentic.
The type of pain from dissolving a family is tremendous. I’ve gone through it, and it is painful. But, if done honestly, and without betrayal, it is clean, and it handled right, the pain to children can be mitigated (depends on individual circumstance, of course). Some pain to SO cannot be avoided. But while I knew the pain of betrayal if I were unfaithful would devastate my SO and fester and cause things like anger, resentment, hatred, pain, shame, and affect their self-worth, I could hope that a break-up without betrayal is something from which we could recover from enough to salvage something good for the kids at least. I also did think that my SO deserved someone who was crazy about them and actually wanted to be with them. My SO did not deserve betrayal, but did not deserve a spouse who didn’t want to be with them either, and what SO does deserve is a chance too, at love.
So here I am. I don’t want SO. And I’ve discovered I don’t really want LO either (and I could have had them once I was free, I think, but it didn’t feel right, they were so deeply emotionally implicated in my decision, it felt … ambiguous, and I think could still hurt my ex-SO who was probably somewhat aware of my feelings for LO). LO doesn’t fit in my life as I envision it now. No longer an escape hatch from my marriage, therefore the urgency has faded. Life is funny like that.
Some very good observations there. You understand the ramifications limerence has on marriages and the unfairness to SO’s.
While I am not happy to be middle aged and divorced, I become all the more grateful I am not married anymore.
Because I really think, when my LE came out of nowhere and hit me like a Mack Truck, had I still been married, it would have been like the final nail in the coffin for my marriage. Sad but true..
Dear DR L, I want to share my story with you
“Nothing works”
I guess it’s actually common for most limerent people. I have a classic limerent case that lasts for 9 years. I also started to fight with my limerence some time ago. After that I found out that all of my efforts in this fight are also connected to the desire of making this person a part of my thoughts for a bit longer.
And nothing worked for me exсept one realization: I don’t want to be so pathetic.
And please don’t be mad at me for calling limerent people pathetic – we are, and this is the first thing we have to understand about all of this
Sometime ago I found out that I am a L. O. for the other person and it felt like gross. For real I started to think about what thoughts of me he has. And if those thoughts are the same as my thoughts about my L.O. it’s really gross and weird because I never gave a permission to think of me like that. I actually never wanted to be a part of life of this person and we are not even friends or something like that, and he is making me a part of his life while I never agreed.
And after that I thought “but still it’s nothing like a situation with me and my L.O.”. Yes ofc we have like ten thousands volumes of books of the meaningfull eye contacts,
hints, “accidental” touches, EX-past, unacceptable kiss-episodes and unacceptable something-more-than-a-kiss-episodes etc etc. I HAVE a permisson to think like that because its mutual, because we have such a big past and so on.
And then I understood that there is no legitimate reasons to think this is mutual. Sometimes it was, but how can I know for sure if it’s always mutual. So there is a potential possibility that I am making my L. O. a part of my life with my thoughts but WITHOUT a permission, and it’s gross.
Some time ago we talked about movies in real life, and after that i imagined the scene where he asked me what movie is about us. In this imaginary dialogue I answered “Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind” but then my imaginary version sadly corrected herself “I woud like to answer “Eternal Sunshine” or “Lalalend” but we are in “500 days of Summer” where I’m not Summer and it’s 9 years”. I started to think about the difference between those movies and I determined those with 3 scenarios: 1) people are in love and always come back; 2) people were in love and never come back; 3) one person is in love and always try to come back. So this question is only about how he feels about me.
And at this moment I found out that in my limerent case there is no difference in what movie we are, because this would be gross in every scenario BECAUSE OF ME. Because im weak and pathetic and the only movie-scenario that is possible whith my participation is some of psychological thrillers where an obsessive and strange character interferes with the life of another. There is no difference how he feels about me, because my limerent case is so gross that even if he loves me, he wouldn’t want to find out about what was happening in my head for such a long time. I’ve been feeding my imagination with this person since I was 16, and for 9 years I’ve been damaging myself, losing my identity, hurting people who love me and whom i actually love. I have to fight with the limerence not because there is no chance to date this person. Maybe there always were chances, but it doesn’t matter because it was never about him. The limerence story is not about mutuality, it is about you, your identity and the quality of your life. If all the identity you have is to be limerent of someone – you are pathetic. And if you don’t want to be pathetic – then stop it. Improve yourself and find out who you really are. Give this time to a REAL LIFE.
I’m not sure if you’ve ever read Michelle Langley and Women’s Infidelity, but your thoughts here are identical to hers. Women don’t ever actually want to end their affairs. They just want to talk about them and pretend like they’re confused and torn, because it keeps the high going.
There are many women in the world, how many do you know personally?
Generalization makes one ignorant and stupid!
This is making me think of how technically I am not married but how my relationship can be practically considered one.
All I know is that without infatuation/limerence feelings I am not capable of feeling anything like romantic love towards anybody. I do not blame my partner for this. It is not his fault. If I knew how to work on this issue in our relationship so that this problem would go away honestly I would. But I don’t know how (not even after having sought psychotherapy help or counselling help in the past). Without those sorts of feelings towards him, it just feels like we live together as platonic best friends/house sharing friends pretty much. I do understand that going off with somebody else just because I had temporary stronger limerent feelings towards them would solve nothing – as ultimately they would eventually fade towards that other person too. But I also don’t know what else I can do to change this. 🙁
Hi Emma,
I understand what you are going through. This was the hallmark of all my relationships with men — have strong feelings for a couple years, then not have them anymore, and therefore leave them. The cycle was always the same. It wasn’t them; it was me.
I have had to learn to try this new reality of being married to someone for many other reasons other than the feelings: to keep my vows to God and my husband, for our children, and even in a way for myself. I have had to learn how to love and appreciate my spouse on a different level, and accept it as more of a stable, long-term companionate love where we both try to meet each other’s needs as best as we can. It’s not exciting — but it is life for me. And I choose to be thankful for it rather than wish it was always something else. 🌟
I wish I could tell you that I had an answer for your conundrum, but I don’t.
A phrase that keeps coming back to me from Matthew Perry’s memoir is that someone once told is that “reality is an acquired taste.” For me, in the case of limerence, I am trying to acquire a taste of reality that does not require/desire limerence any longer to fulfill these needs.
Emma, I hope you find what works for you. We are here for you if you need a listening ear 💙