Following on from last week’s discussion about whether fighting for a relationship is a good idea, the opposite problem is also a common trigger for limerence…
Should I stay with them?
Here’s a thought-provoking video from the School of Life that raises lots of interesting ideas, some of which I don’t agree with, but should probably give more thought to:
The premise is that people pleasers (who are well represented among the ranks of the limerent) can get stuck in a stale relationship because of a failure to recognise that having your own needs and desires isn’t a selfish imposition, and denying those natural impulses actually ends up hurting everyone.
If I were to frame it in LwL terms: living without purpose makes it more likely that you’ll get stuck in an unhappy relationship. Finding purpose comes from understanding and accepting yourself (and being honest about it), which also makes it a lot easier to make important choices about long-term relationships.
Anyway, a good video on a difficult topic.
Enjoy!
I feel like I am in a scenario I haven’t seen talked about yet (and I feel like I’m being tortured inside):
What about when two people have contracted (yep, like a disease) limerence for each other – can this be true love? I see a lot about the misleading thoughts and ideals limerence instills in our minds but can/does limerence also point us to someone of great compatibility?
I’m fully engulfed in the fires of limerence right now for the first time in my life (can you tell by how I’m already trying to rationalize my feelings lol), after knowing, and slowing falling more and more in love with a woman, for 6 years. Recently, it reached a crescendo and it turns out we both feel the exact same way. Full blown chest crushing, can’t breathe, when can I see you again, love. But I’m happily married. What the hell is this?
I love my wife dearly but I’ve never experienced this feeling with her or anyone else. The thing that I haven’t seen explored in the site yet is when limerence strikes teo people at once AND they really could make a wonderful life together. What does one do????!!!? I’m dying inside…please help me
To be blunt without a moment’s further thought, leave your wife. Why not?
Oh wait. No. Don’t do that just yet.
I’m not sure where, but the mutual limerence thing is mentioned here, and it can apparently be a wonderful thing. I’m envious, I’m one of those people who chases unavailable people.
But under ideal circumstances two people might experience mutual limerence as an intense courtship obsession. There are risks, as one or other is likely to leave the state first, and the remaining one could be heartbroken.
But… Sorry to get back to the beginning… These are not ideal circumstances. You say you love your wife dearly, but haven’t felt anything like this etc. So what is ‘this’. It’s clearly different from the ‘love’ you have felt in the past (for your wife etc.). Is it love? It feels like it has the capacity to be incredibly disruptive.
… Is the person your limerent for juggling such high stakes?
Also… Mutual limerence is not a guarantee of a wonderful life. Again, following the limerence model, barriers/challenges often accentuate the drama. Were you to ditch your marriage and be fully available you might find that your or their or both of your limerences fade.
That has certainly happened to me in the past, the unavailable becomes available and things can change in weeks. But the emotional fall out, grief and turmoil can last much longer.
The fact that you identify with the concept and sense of being limerent, and that your LO is also, suggests that you sense there is something unworldly about the experience. Don’t act hastily.
As for what it means to become limerent in a marriage, it would also be worth reflecting on whether your marital dynamics are playing a role. It’s not always the case, but I suspect it often is.
Good luck James.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. You bring up good points. I’ve built an amazing life with my wife and I do honestly love her deeply. I’m just so rattled by this seemingly divine feeling of limerence it has me questioning everything. Your word “unworldly” is a perfect description.
I’ll say that the person I’m limerent for is single and is not playing for the same high stakes I am.
The deep problem I keep coming back to is that she’s become my best friend over the years and it seems like we’d be able to live a great life together… AND this nuclear powered limerence feeling is mutual!
Have you considered polyamory? To me this is the way to healthily and honestly explore your lwl relationship with your wife by your side.
“can this be true love?”…”does limerence also point us to someone of great compatibility”
No.
Hi James. I truly empathise as am in a similar situation myself (I think!), although my LO and I have not disclosed. I am in-love with my LO and deeply wish we could be together, but I also very much love my SO, and I choose to stay with him as we are good together, share a family/home/great life together and I can see myself contentedly growing old with him.
The intensity of limerent feeling is fuelled by the existence of barriers and uncertainty which would not have been there when you met your wife so of course it would not have felt this way. Limerence is not true love, it is hormonal love. It does occasionally turn into true bonded love over time of course, but limerent feelings are fickle once you embark on a real relationship together, and are truly no indication of what will happen – it may burn itself out quickly, you may find you do not get on in the longer term or you may find yourself limerent for someone else 5 years later. Your chemistry with LO is not a predictor of compatibility, or even how long you will desire her for. If you left your SO for her, chances are (if you are lucky), you will probably feel the same about her 10 years down the road as you do now for your wife… except with added resentment for having abandoned a good(?) marriage for something that turned out to be no better in the end.
I was limerent for my SO when we first met. The limerence faded gradually once we got together, lasting ~1 year. Much as I love him still 18 years later, we have a sexless marriage (>10 years) and I have zero desire for him now. It is hard to believe I ever felt that way about him! Limerence always dies.
Limerence spectacularly blinkers our judgement – about LO, about SO, about your marriage and about life in general. So be very careful making decisions right now.
Wishing you well.
Wow. Ok. I can definitely tell that all my ability to reason is horribly warped right now. And I keep telling myself that making any decisions at all in this state would be a disaster.
Can I ask how long you knew your LO before you developed limerence for them? I keep rationalizing my feelings with the fact that, when I’m really honest with myself, I’ve probably fallen in love with this person over the past 3-4 years and it’s just culminated into this soul crushing emotional limerence. So even while I do recognize I’m currently spellbound, I say “yes, this will end, but you know that the foundational love was there before, and could grow even stronger.” Which then just fuels the fire.
Any thoughts?
My situation and feelings towards LO are very similar, except I am further along the process than you. I have dispelled most of my limerent delusions, moved myself away from the middle of the inferno and now live on the edge of the fire, keeping warm but not allowing myself to become engulfed. This takes real mental effort and self-discipline thus is not an approach that would suit all.
My LO is a co-worker, a truly lovely man and a friend. He is also married which probably makes things slightly simpler as I do not see him as a real option… we are both very level-headed people.
I fell for him slowly and subconsciously over a period of 1.5 years… I took 3 weeks leave one xmas and found myself feeling miserable as I missed him and could not stop thinking about him. I realised at that point that I had fallen head over heels. That was nearly 3 years ago and I am limerent still. If we had met as singles, I have no doubt we would have had a long and happy relationship together. But the post of husband is not vacant, and I am happy with who I am with, and my SO is happy being with me.
The key thing to remember is that before LO (I assume) you were happy. So the cause of your unhappiness is not your marriage, it is your limerence. Make sure you fix the right problem.
Allie 1.
“I took 3 weeks leave one xmas and found myself feeling miserable as I missed him and could not stop thinking about him. I realised at that point that I had fallen head over heels.”
That’s it right there, Allie. You are indeed experiencing limerence and not just a crush or new relationship energy.
The same thing happened to me – almost identical circumstances – sadness/longing after a brief period of separation.
In two sentences, you’ve captured the feeling of longing and how this feeling of longing just sneaks up on one. 😛
“The intensity of limerent feeling is fuelled by the existence of barriers and uncertainty which would not have been there when you met your wife so of course it would not have felt this way. Limerence is not true love, it is hormonal love. It does occasionally turn into true bonded love over time of course, but limerent feelings are fickle once you embark on a real relationship … Your chemistry with LO is not a predictor of compatibility, or even how long you will desire her for.”
@Allie 1.
Such a great analysis! I like your very apt description of limerence as “hormonal love”.
A writer called Charlotte Grainger recently published an article on limerence in “Brides” (an online magazine for thoughtful young ladies who wish to wear white I presume?) and in describing the difference between love and limerence states “limerence is all about the chase and lusting after someone”. That sounds pretty hormonal, I guess?
I wonder, what is the “seemingly divine feeling” James and virtually all fellow limerents report feeling? Is it just some marvellous upwelling of hormone-fuelled desire for a partner with highly suitable, complementary genetic material for the purposes of baby-making? 😉
I’m going to be my usual impossible self and have it both ways. I’m going to agree and disagree simultaneously with the commentary thus far on this thread. So bear with me, guys, and we may hit on a really important insight about limerence and human nature…
James’s question: “Can/does limerence also point us to someone of great compatibility?”
Allie’s response: “Your chemistry with LO is not a predictor of compatibility, or even how long you will desire her for.”
My perspective: Allie, you’re absolutely right to say chemistry with a potential partner does not predict compatibility with a potential partner, especially long-term compatibility. Chemistry (achingly strong physical attraction) and compatibility (shared goals, common interests, similar values, etc) are not the same thing. I think everybody can agree on this?
However, since you’ve been savvy enough to bring up the topic of hormones, I would argue that chemistry with a potential partner can and indeed DOES predict a very narrow, very specific, very limited kind of compatibility with a potential partner, and that compatibility is something I’m going to call “reproductive compatibility”.
Basically, when a guy and a girl have chemistry together, I believe this means that the guy’s genes, if you like, are reacting positively on a subliminal level to the girl’s genes – and vice versa. This positive reaction has to do with immune systems, different genes, similar genes, etc. Long story short, evolution is signalling to these two (usually young, attractive, and fertile) human beings that they’d probably make great babies together. 😉
This is why, I believe, James and other limerents experience that incredible “rush” on meeting their LOs. Mother Nature is screaming: “This is the person your DNA wants you to make babies with, and preferably sooner rather than later. There’s a high level of reproductive compatibility going on here. Woman’s genes will mix well with Man’s genes, and (ideally) lead to healthy viable offspring.”
So, in a sense, James and Allie, you are both right. On the one hand, mutual limerence probably does not foreshadow any extraordinary compatibility between two people in terms of morals, life goals, common interests, etc. One actually has to get to know someone and spend a significant amount of time with that person (without being on one’s best behaviour) to make accurate judgements about compatibility.
On the other hand, mutual limerence may well point to and/or indicate a certain kind of purely biological compatibility heavily influenced by hormones – my aforementioned “reproductive compatibility”. That’s why it feels so amazing, I believe. That is why the “high” is so intense and thrilling. 😉
How/why my male body talked itself into believing I was “reproductively compatible” with the body of another male I will never know…
All human beings have two selves: (a) a social self, and (b) a biological self. Nothing will shock a person into an awareness of the reality of the biological self (the self that eats, sleeps, breathes, desires, reproduces, bears young, and eventually dies, etc) quite like a limerent episode!! 😉
Have we solved any of the great mysteries of the universe yet? 😆😇
limerence only feels strong because of the unavailability of the partner ; if the relatinship becomes valid, if she would acept you and take you on as a totally normal and valid partner and shout your name form the rooftops , the dream would die and you would immediately know how horrible of a decision you have made. Look at the research these situationships do not last.
I agree with all the advice given here. I was limerent for my married lover … until he left his wife. He went from this guy I couldn’t quite get my hands on to someone who was so needy and clingy. The limerence died very quickly … and boy did I see him clearly for the first time.
If you want to leave your wife because you are unhappy in the relationship or because you don’t want to be married anymore, that is one thing. But don’t leave her for someone else, not while in the throes of limerence.
Song of the Day: “Could It Be Love?” – Jennifer Warnes (1981)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c4cIht_0Qc
“Well it seems right
But I wonder
And it feels right
But I wonder
If we know how true loves feels”
Firstly, I am so happy I found this blog. I was starting to feel like an absolute mad woman for my irrational feelings and I’m glad I’m not alone. I’ve been married to my SO for 12 years, there have been happy moments but mostly not a great marriage. In April of this year we decided we’d give counseling one more chance and if it didn’t work we’d call it quits and separate. Fast forward to July, when I get a message from an ex from about 18 years ago on social media. We reconnect online, all very friendly just catching up on each other’s lives. Him married now with more children (he was a single dad when we were together). After some chatting, I apologize for being not so nice when we dated long ago and he tells me that he never got over me and never stopped loving me. I was very surprised about those feelings after all that time. This is about the time the LE begins. We’re both unhappy in our marriages and I tell him several times that we should both figure out our situations with our SO, and then later see if something between us would be a possibility. I was still trying to think rationally. I attempt to go NC several times over a month and a half period, but keep coming back for all the beautiful things I’m hearing that I haven’t heard in a decade from
my SO. Finally, someone thinks I’m beautiful and important and appears to want to do everything in their power to make sure I’m happy. He tells me he was ready to marry me so many years ago and always wanted to have kids with me, that I was his soulmate, just so so much was said. I eventually cave and fall hard for LO. I start believing this future that he’s painting for us. He was a wonderful BF many years ago, and always treated me like a queen and I had thought about how I felt when I was with him many times over the years. We were in different states when the LE began but a month and a half later we’re in the same state, as the move with my family was planned prior to contact with LO. For a week, LO constantly brings up seeing each other and each time I say it’s a bad idea. Finally, I agree. We meet up, share some hugs, he holds my hand and a flood of emotions come crashing in, as if I wasn’t already picturing a future with him. The next day he tells me it was great to see me and he had a tough time not crossing a line during our meet up. A day later he’s distant and I notice that distant pattern continue day after day for a week. I’m the one initiating more conversations and talks of the future from him have stopped. It’s too late though, I am in the LE black hole. I bring it up and he says that his wife has been there with him this whole time over the years when I wasnt. That she had picked up the pieces when I broke his heart years ago. That I’ve done the marriage counseling already and have reached my decision, but he hasn’t. I forgot to add, I convinced him to go to marriage counseling early on, so he’d know for sure that he wanted out of his marriage. This was when I was still thinking semi-rationally. He said his wife deserved his full attention now, and apologized for hurting me this time around. I’m heartbroken and go NC for two weeks, and for those two weeks I go through awful withdrawal and eventually convince myself that I’m strong enough to still be friends with him and that’s better than nothing. I contact him again and we make small talk for a month, mostly me just trying to go days not messaging and him rarely initiating conversation, but always replying as if he feels sorry for me perhaps. I have a tough time understanding how he was able to just shut off the feelings he supposedly had, because it has been a month and a half since he said he said he needed to dedicate his time to his wife and I have been a mess since. I have had panic attacks, and my anxiety and depression are through the roof and my obsession was this has made me physically sick. I sent a message this week after just waiting to see if he’d initiate conversation for a week and a half, and he didn’t. I told him I couldn’t be friends with him and had to close the door on this situation for my own mental health. He simply replied that he understood. Deep down I know eventually I’ll be ok, but the hurt I feel right now is unbearable and it makes me so angry that I let this happen and I let myself get to this point. Thank you for letting me vent and tell my story.
“it makes me so angry that I let this happen and I let myself get to this point.”
I don’t know if this will help, but I’d also be angry at him. It sounds really selfish to reappear in someone’s life nearly two decades later, express all these words of love and then pull back.
Agreed, I guess I’m stuck on confusion and extreme sadness right now, but there’s definitely some anger in there. I told him so many times in the beginning not to talk about a future with me and to try to stick to talking as friends, but he continued anyway. Then I was left out in the cold with all these feelings and he gets to just go about his life like nothing happened because he had a change of heart or whatever happened.
It sounds cruel, brutal emotionally. How can anyone recover from that? Wishing you courage and strength.
Thanks for sharing. The physical illness, black hole, you speak of… I’m living in that right now. I can’t focus on a single thing in my life, I’ve stopped reading, studying, I can’t watch TV, if I’m out with friends I’m only 10% present. I’ve never had this in my life ans I’m 40 years old. 2 weeks ago everything was smooth and wonderful. I’m so sorry this has happened to you. I hope, for you and me both, simply sharing this on here offers some relief.
Yes, I hope this is over soon for both of us. It has impacted all aspects of my life. You described it perfectly, I’m barely present in my everyday life and extremely irritable as well.
Great video DrL!
I am stuck mentally, it’ll fester in my case.
Oh I have accepted that it’s a no without doubt but I fear my warmth will turn to significant resentment towards my former LO. If you don’t give someone adequate closure and to compound it (online app, met once)!
Well her fake name was a safety valve, that I accept, but the stuff about her being engaged at tome 9f meet, married thereafter?? She stayed on her bio ‘Open Relationship’. May still do for all I onow, a closure discussion onlone as opposed to a singular message, ignore then after I was angry one day, block…took me some time to recover fully.
I digress, but she should learn a lesson here, in this instance give someone a little bit of two way discussion and her little secrets shall remain safe as the other person shall leave satisfied if disappointed and won’t be a mix of angry and baffled, and resolve to research the possible truth.
Thanks for sharing. The physical illness, black hole, you speak of… I’m living in that right now. I can’t focus on a single thing in my life, I’ve stopped reading, studying, I can’t watch TV, if I’m out with friends I’m only 10% present. I’ve never had this in my life ans I’m 40 years old. 2 weeks ago everything was smooth and wonderful. I’m so sorry this has happened to you. I hope, for you and me both, simply sharing this on here offers some relief.
So… after a few years working through my last limerence, I find myself back at this site seeking help. I am much better equipped than last time and I know what I need to do. But i guess I am hoping for some friendly words to support me going forward.
But to the story: my last limerence ended badly. I left my job and moved internally. I did NC and even tried the concept of transferring limerence to someone else (not in a bad way, just to get me to stop thinking about LO).
Fast forward a few years, this new guy I was a little bit glimmering for became my boss. All fine, i never gave it much attention, feelings were at bay, for me it was almost irrelevant as we were just working together. So I’d say i was latently limerent maybe? But again, nothing intrusive, obstructive, I was fine. And we actually work really well together, lots to learn from this guy for sure.
But then, the infamous work party happened, and we ended up continuing the party until late (with others) but eventually found ourselves alone in a club. It was certainly not planned by me to end up in this situation, I would hope the same on his end. At that point I realized, he must have feelings for me too, as he just came slightly too close to me when screaming in each others ears at the club. I think as the eve progressed, it became clear that we have mutual attraction for each other.
Thanks to this site and my previous LE, I thought i must be clear and get out and away. I told him at that point that I am not interested in anything, certainly no affair, and that there is a line that will not be crossed, that I will not kiss him. I could tell he was open for that (We both were heavily intoxicated, and he kept staring at my lips) I kept bringing up his wife, that he is married and he should think about her (I am married too), and to top it all off, he is my boss, who I actually really like to work for for professional reasons. I think I repeated that at least 5 times, for him as much as for me…
he seemed to respect my line, he said he will not pull me over it. Then, we parted ways. And have since not mentioned it at all. It’s like a good 2 months after that incident, and neither him nor I have said anything about it. We also have no contact outside of work, we do not text each other at all. Even after this night, neither reached out and it took 1 week until I saw him at work. I think we exchanged an awkward look at that point but went on as before. Thanks to corona and home office, I have only seen him like 5 times in those 2 months.
Long story short: I will continue to only have professional contact, we have no private contact anyway, and will stay professionally at work. It is harder at work as I do think we have some awkward stares every once in a while, but neither says anything about it.
But, ever since, the rumination started. I am having the hardest time getting him out of my head. I recalled that night again and again, wondering if i only imagined him liking me as at some point it felt like it never even happened, also given both our reactions of completely ignoring it.
I try not to think about what he thinks, as frankly, it doesn’t matter. This will not get anywhere. It’s such a stupid situation to be in, and I really do like to work in my job, also with the wider department around me so it is extra stupid to jeopardize that.
Apologies for the long post, over the past 2 months I’ve thought about posting here to get some of your thoughts. Eventually, I know what I have to do, I just stand in my own way with my ruminations.
I’ve also been stupid enough to look at his social media where he happily posts pics of him, his wife and kid, and then I could kick myself again for my stupidity of even checking.
I guess what I am looking for is some encouragement to stop the ruminations, which seems the hardest at the moment.
You saw yourself heading for trouble and you took steps to avoid it. So, you may have made a few minor missteps. I don’t think anybody here got it perfect the first time.
You did just fine.
Thanks for the reassurance, Limerent Emeritus, what I needed to hear.
Interesting video. However, it does not resonate with my experience at all.
I am in my early fifties and I’m very, very good at limerence. I think I started as a child (Oh my embarrassing crush on my ski instructor!). So I’ve been through quite a number of episodes over the course of the last few decades.
With hindsight, I can say that all these times were about me.
Root causes varied: most of the times, it was because I needed to remember and process my (indeed difficult) childhood. More recently it has been more about who I wanted to be – “falling in love” for qualities I wanted for myself (and yes, I’m skiing a lot right now; also, I’m playing a lot of tennis 🙂
Once, it signalled that there was a problem with my primary relationship. It did not mean the guy was not right for me. It meant that some serious issues appeared, and as a skilled people pleaser, I did not address them and preferred to flee. I needed to learn how to bring up conflict when necessary, and set boundaries. I’m better at it now, although I’m not graceful at all.
But never, ever, has it been about another person, or people pleasing, really. My limence episodes are me talking to myself. So changing partners would be silly: it would create pain for a few people (including me!), and not address the real issue.
Now, I’m saying this because I am not in a limerent episode of course. I can be all wise and reasonable, and pretend it will last forever.
Please remind me of what I just wrote when I will be in the middle of the next episode, obsessing endlessly about what a bald aging banker did or did not write in his latest email…
I wish you all the best, all of you
I love the way you think about limerence, almost as a message to yourself about something adjacent in your life, but not actually about the LO. I have noticed that after a loss (a close friend moves, a death of a loved one, a break up) I have historically gotten into a particularly close friendship with someone new. It isn’t usually a bad thing, but it is a response more about what I’m going through than about compatibility with the new person. I’m going to think back about my LEs and what was going on for me around them, and what message they might have signified. This is a good reminder of how incidental our LOs often are.
This sounds very familiar and I thank you for posting it.
When I met LO I had to work with her to fix a huge f’ing mess that was the fault of a former co-worker, at the time, and management sent me to her location to help. So at work she had stress. She was also recently divorced with an ex still trying to be toxic in her life. And she has now two daughters to care for on her own.
I found that the more I knew about her lot in life both personally and secularly and the more that she needed someone to help/listen/advice the more I became attracted to her. I had know her (just through phone conversation at work previously) for a year before I ever became limerent.
Now from what you say about yourself, I see the need for me to “rescue” her from whatever it was, was more about me than her. I had a need to save her from this work load, listen to her about her personal life, give advice when she asked for it, wasn’t JUST because I did and do care about her, but it also filled a need I have as a people pleasing ISFJ.
And maybe that dynamic, her getting help out of our relationship as co-workers and me getting something out of “saving” her is what made the limerence flare up? That’s an interesting thought as previously I really could not pin point when she went from just a nice co-worker to LO. All I can remember is one day I walked the office and was talking to her first thing that morning and all of a sudden I saw her differently.
I think it’s not only personal fear of being alone that keeps people stuck in unhappy relationships. We as a society measure a relationship’s success only in terms of longevity rather than other qualities. Marriage and growing old together and having the longest possible relationship is supposed to be the ultimate goal. Ending a relationship is considered a failure, when in a lot of cases it really is courageous and a personal achievement.
At least it was for me. When I left an unhealthy relationship, a lot of people did not understand why I would break up our family. To this day I still get pityful looks when I say I’m a single mother. People don’t understand what a wonderful alternative it is to what our life was like before and how much both my child and I are thriving. It’s freeing in a way.
When I was younger I had this idea ingrained in my head what my life was supposed to look like and be like and I had to mourn this idea when it all crumbled. And now I feel free. Not only of the unhealthy relationship but also of societal and my own expectations.
Doesn’t prevent limerence though, oh well.
I am so done with limerance. I have suffered from this BS from the time I was 15.
I had no language for this. I thought it was love, literally.
Now I know this is a hungry demon that has just attached itself to different people. It is an attachment wound.
I have even been limerant for things. When I was a little girl I would fantasize about getting certain things or certain events and have a sense of euphoria and also a feeling of, “once I have this, everything will be different.”
This has taken time and potential partners from me. It has robbed me of the present and of paying attention to my own life.
I am done with it. I want it gone. I have also been diagnosed with ocd.
I clearly have a deep attachment wound. I want to heal that and not believe the lying fantasy mirage oasis that limerance constantly dangles in front of me.
It is not real. I am real. It is not love. I am love. Today I am here to claim this as the truth and vow to live in the truth as the only other option is a slow spiritual death.
I wish everyone here healing.
My first real relationship (age 18-20) was with someone who was my LO, and by the end of it, I was able to recognize it as unhealthy. My next real relationship (my current one, age 22 to 33) was not characterized by limerence. He is a kind person who I have everything in common with and adore, my best friend to be sure, but for the past 8 months I have not felt sexually attracted to him (and honestly, it’s been in question off and on longer than that). I have had LO crushes from afar throughout our relationship, but I’ve always ignored them and they’ve gone away. I’m experiencing one right now that feels particularly intense and painful as it’s coinciding with this shift with my partner. I feel like I don’t know what healthy desire looks like, and I don’t know if I’ve ever experienced it. I don’t know what questions to ask myself. The video linked above was very relatable to me, but I also want to push back on parts of it. I’m wondering if I’m in denial or if I can fix things.