Today’s case study comes from Ann, who is understandably upset about the situation she finds herself in.
My husband of twelve years has been going through what I thought was a midlife crisis for the last six months, but I now believe is actually limerence. He has become obsessed with a woman he works with and declared that he loves her and isn’t sure he wants to stay married to me any more or stay living at home with our children. I’ve been going through a hard time with illness, but this just came out of nowhere and I don’t know what to do. I am trying to be understanding, but I can’t stop thinking about this other woman and wondering what she is like. Is she leading him on? Does she even know how he feels about her? Are they already having an affair?
My husband won’t say anything about her, and gets angry when I ask questions which makes me think that maybe it is all in his imagination and not real. I know I should be angry with him, but I just can’t stop resenting her for destroying my marriage and being this mysterious romantic woman who is obviously so much more attractive than me his boring wife.
As the overused phrase puts it: there’s a lot to unpack here.
First up, the dynamic of Ann’s relationship with her husband is obviously troubling. He is being deliberately uncommunicative, she is trying to be understanding. I do always try to bear in mind with these case studies that we’re only hearing one side of the story, but it’s hard to see much cause for optimism given the lopsided effort being put in here.
Ann’s husband has disclosed his feeling to her, but we don’t know if he has disclosed to LO. In fact, LO is a total black box mystery enigma. That’s almost certainly the reason why Ann is fixated on her as the shadowy woman who is directing events – not knowing what’s happening means that Ann is unable to make sense of her predicament. Is this LO a competitor who has to be fought, or is this an innocent third party and the real issue is her husband?
In fact, let’s short-circuit the analysis and just get to the point: the real issue is Ann’s secretive husband.
The only real hope for recovery after limerence rocks a marriage is if no “red lines” have been crossed (as defined by the spouse) and there is a sincere wish to repair the marriage from both sides. That requires a mental framing between the spouses of “us against the problem,” rather than “is it me or her you want?”
In Ann’s case, her husband is cutting her out of the information loop completely. He’s withholding about the situation with LO, he’s vague and non-committal about the future of their marriage and family, and is obviously just internalising the whole situation and sees it as his business to deal with.
The most charitable reading of this is that he doesn’t want to burden Ann with his problems, but his anger and refusal to communicate suggests it’s more an issue of wanting to keep this to himself.
But, none of this really helps Ann. She’s still going quietly mad with curiosity and confusion. What can be done to make sense of the situation?
The clearest perspective that can be achieved, I think, is to accept that the LO doesn’t matter. The situation certainly matters, and her conduct towards Ann’s husband may be a factor in the progression of his limerence, but at a fundamental level the LO is incidental to the fact that Ann’s husband shouldn’t be fraternising with anyone else if he is married.
The LO could be a manipulative, mate-poaching narcissist, she could be a totally innocent bystander, she could be enjoying the attention and so flirting with him, or any other intermediate scenario. None of that changes the basic outcome: Ann’s husband is not respecting her as his wife, not communicating with her, and not showing any signs of contrition. None of those problems are caused by the LO.
So, my advice to Ann is to accept that it is totally understandable and natural that the infuriating uncertainty is making you resentful, but the larger truth is that knowing the specific circumstances of the LO’s behaviour will not actually help resolve the emotional distress, or make your husband more cooperative.
Instead, I would suggest seeking support for yourself. You need an independent person who cares for you to help make sense of what you are going through, and discuss what your options are. This could be a trusted friend, or an individual therapist or counsellor. It’s also worth exploring why you are finding it hard to direct the resentment where it belongs (as you know deep down you should be more angry with him) and what that means about the dynamic in your marriage.
You could also download the free Anxiety to Action guide (link in sidebar, or on the resources page) which covers some practical steps you can take to improve communication with a resistant spouse and to look after yourself at a time when the person who is supposed to be looking after you has instead betrayed you.
Not much comfort to offer this week, other than trying to clarify where action needs to be taken. Hope it’s some help…
Oops, No one wants to be in Ann’s situation. Really hard to help without knowing her SO’s side. Just the same, it’s obvious he doesn’t want to be with her and said so. So, she has to act as if a complete rejection and ask him if he wants a divorce since he doesn’t want to communicate any further about his behavior with LO. Going for therapy, would he accept to go together? It seems he has made up his mind and could care less about his SO. No respect or consideration ! Sad, very sad.
Well, Nisor, asking for a divorce with no other communication in between will surely end the marriage, but that’s not what Ann wants, not without knowing a bit more about the whole situation, I guess.
I agree with Dr L. I often had the feeling when I saw something like this happen to some acquaintances, that the hurt party concentrated on the third person as evil incarnate. I think because it is the easier thing to do, to believe that all was well and good until the witch/devil came along and destroyed it wilfully.
It just doesn’t solve the problem of lost trust and lost love between the two main persons.
This husband sounds as if he is in a kind of limerence bubble, completely selfish and not able to see things from Ann’s perspective. Ann wrote she „tries to be understanding“, but I wouldn’t be that understanding until he comes out of that bubble and cooperates more.
I’ve been through limerence enough times to know that it will pass. That once you get to the other side, you think: What was I thinking?
But the spouse of the limerent has to be informed of what the limerent is going through and be very patient to wait out the limerence. Also trust that the limerent is doing what needs to be done on their end, which is dismantling the limerence. And not walking toward it or indulging it or staying mired in it, which is what the LW’s husband is doing.
Mila, Marcia,
Ok, he’s not talking or giving any information to his SO, how long should she wait till he feels like talking about the affair??? How else can she make him talk about it; he doesn’t seem repented or show any remorse about it…sorry but she’s in a quagmire.
There’s no information here that it was an affair. It could be the very common limerent scenario of fixation on someone unavailable or uninterested.
I don’t know how long she should wait it out. I can’t answer that. I wouldn’t put up with it, but she seems to want to stay with him and they have children.
@Nisor,
As long as it takes to wait out her husband’s limerence, if she still wants this marriage with the kids.
Meanwhile she could learn about LE as much as she could and some Stoicism, which will help ease her pains, and even make her stronger in a long run.
Nothing more she could do right now!
@Marcia,
By your means, the US divorce rate will rise to 85%. There was on survey sometime ago asking how many together-couples are really happy/content; the answer is 15%.
By my observations, all human beings change and evolve, for better or worse. All sorts of emotions come and go, rise and fall, stay or leave… we need to allow a room for everyone to make “mistakes/illusions” and have them “corrected” intentionally or inadvertently, if they’re indeed mistakes/illusions.
Snowphoenix,
“By your means, the US divorce rate will rise to 85%. There was on survey sometime ago asking how many together-couples are really happy/content; the answer is 15%.”
I’m not interested in the divorce rate. I don’t have interest in getting married.
As you wrote, people evolve and change. Who one connects with in one’s 20s is vastly different than who they connect with twenty years later. I often think serial monogamy would be a better option. Sometimes things run their course. I don’t necessarily advocate life-long relationships (though they do work for some people), but most people do and the LW seems to want to stay.
As long as it takes to wait out her husband’s limerence, if she still wants this marriage.
Meanwhile she could learn about LE as much as she could and some Stoicism, which will help ease her pains, and even make her stronger in a long run.
Nothing more she could do right now!
Snow, Mila, Marcia,
She says her husband “declared that he loves her and isn’t sure he wants to stay married to me anymore or stay living at home with our children .”
She wants to be understanding even though he doesn’t want to explain anything to her (SO).
Her main concern, (what’s eating her up) is not his above declaration’ but ‘that she can’t stop thinking about this other woman and wondering what she’s like….’
If he doesn’t come up with an answer soon, she’d lose patience, and probably go to his work and try to find out who this woman is ??? This looks like trouble hmm…
So, her only way out is by confronting him and asking to talk seriously, that she’s willing to help him cross this valley if need be, or else she will consult a lawyer. That will probably scare the s$&@ out of him.
She definitely can’t live with this anguish for a long time. My two cents.
I agree that it’s a horrible situation.
If she mentioned going to a lawyer, he may get scared or he may be secretly relieved that one of them made a decision. It’s hard to say.
Yes, Marcia, it depends a bit. Sometimes threats work, sometimes not.
Nisor, if she threatens him with something (divorce etc) she should be ok with going through with it. Don’t know if she is.
I agree that he should wake up and understand the consequences clearly, though.
Worrying about a spouse’s LO is futile, it does not matter whether she’s a devil or angel, the main issue is Husband, who can’t let her go.
In my case, I made my SO to take me to his LO#2 (they were college flings), and told her to stop visiting my SO, since we’re married. She tried to argue with me, but I guess my cold face scared her, and she never bothered my SO again.
For SO’s LO#3 (one or two night stand), I served her a court summon, because she was calling our home to “harass”. Than she begged me to retrieve the court hearing. In the end, SO and I just did not show up at the court — I had no intention to be there, just to scare the cheeky one!
Yes, going to a lawyer might be a smart step to get him to do something.
I’d like to comment here and state that the husband in this instance seems weak, to have gotten himself into this situation. I say that because this situation almost mirrors some of the complications I went through when I was still married. Looking back at my failures, I was just a weak a$$..
Unless the husband gets himself together, gets honest with his wife and deals with his inner demons or God forbid, has to suffer a firing from HR at work or some possible legal consequence from his obsession, this is a cycle that will continue. He is doomed as an honest husband. He may fall out of this episode but that doesn’t mean it won’t happen again. His marriage needs work. Ann is stuck in the middle. The responsibility here lies with the husband to do something about it.
My sympathies to Ann. It’s terrible that she is being put through this.
I agree with MJ. I am suffering the consequences of what my once intelligent husband did to me and our marriage – not to mention what he did to himself and his reputation. I discovered my husband’s affair in 2019, he did not end it but took it underground. Both my husband and his co-cheater (she had been married 42 years at that point)continued to lie to me and gaslight me to the point where I doubted my own existence. I am 1000% convinced that married limerent’s know exactly what they are doing and what the cost are. By and large they are narcissists with below zero empathy for anyone but themselves. My husband would not listen to me in 2019 hen I presented the facts about limerence and how he ticked every box. After we moved 200 miles away a year later – because of his affair – he suddenly wanted to pin his behavior on limerence and expected me to forgive him and feel sorry for him. His ongoing lies and cover-ups because of the affair, which turned physical after D-Day 2019 – I was diagnosed with scoliosis almost a year ago because of the severe emotional trauma and PTSD from his behavior.
Wait out limerence? Are you kidding?? My husband is starting therapy today to hopefully find out why he has done this. He cheated three other times previous to his obsession with his lying co-conspirator. The first three times, I didn’t tell anyone about it. I suffered in silence. I forgave him, was kind, understanding even though my heart was so heavy with sadness with each time being worse than the time before. After the 3rd time I asked him to go to counselling. He said he didn’t need to go! HUH?? I went to counselling alone.
Based on my growing concerns – in Autumn 2019, twelve years after my husband last affair – I told him if he had another affair, I would end the marriage and tell everyone why. He looked me in the eye and said he would not have another affair. LIAR! Three weeks later I discover thousands of texts on our phone bill and confronted him. He told me he “loved” his co-worker then proceeded to treat me cruelly and with no remorse every single day. He and I never argued before this happened. We had a peaceful marriage, I adored my husband and spoke highly of him to everyone. Well, the marriage I cherished and protected vanished that day. The trust I placed in him – gone, gone, gone. Meanwhile, I am the one who had to give everything up and suffer because of two selfish dumbasses who knew full well what they were doing from the start.
As a result, we have lost everything. His co-cheater’s life goes on unaffected.
Hi Ann, I assume you will read these comments. I’m so sorry you’re going through such a difficult trial. I don’t know what you should do, but I’ll tell you what worked in my marriage. When my SO recognized symptoms of limerence in me, he downloaded the guide for spouses of limerents from LWL and I guess he followed what it said. From my perspective, my husband was more attentive and all around more likable. He took interest in my hobbies, he brought me breakfast in bed almost every morning. He willingly discussed difficult topics including LO. He tried to understand what I was experiencing. That’s just to name a few. I guess my SO decided to compete with my LO. He also told me that he liked how my LO encouraged me to be a better version of myself and my SO didn’t want me to cut communication with my LO. I think his approach is what worked for us. Anyway, I’m not telling you that you need to make any changes, but maybe there is something in the LWL guide for spouses that could help you. My SO said that the thing that helped him have patience with me is that he learned that most people don’t choose to become Limerent. Knowing that I didn’t choose to become Limerent, helped my SO not to resent me or my LOs. My husband says that he respects my LOs even though I had limerence for them. He doesn’t blame them (well not the two recent LOs).
Anyway, your resentment of your husband’s LO makes sense to me. I suspect that you feel like she is taking something away from you. My guess is that you feel like your husband’s devotion is slipping away. Does that sound right? Emotions change. Your husband’s feelings will change and so will yours. Until then, what you are feeling right now absolutely stinks.
Best wishes!
And thats the reason why you have been missed Lovisa. So very well stated.. A great reply..
Bravo.. 👏👏👏
Aww, thank you, MJ. You make me feel so good.
That thing is, that you, Lovisa, were most probably a much more open, communicating and even loving limerent who didn’t seal herself off and had this “don’t interfere with my business” air like he has. Ann has very little to go on to be as understanding as your SO…
Having said that, maybe it’s really for the best to let go of “I’m in the right here” and try to understand the situation first without his help. I think Ann does just that because she found the site. Maybe if she is the one who is strong and understanding he will manage to get a grip, maybe he needs help in this way?
I truly don’t know, but I wish them all the best.
You have a good point, Mila.
Welcome back Lovisa.
Your SO is unique in handling your LE, like finding the Unicorn!!!
I suppose if Ann does more or less the same as your SO did for you, she’d have no problems after he comes out of his LE? The situation will be forgiven and forgotten? Won’t she feel alienated and mistrustful after that? No hard feelings?
In this case it is the husband who
did the cheating ( if he did), usually women forget their men, IF they are madly in love with them or are dependent on them for economical survival.
But when it’s the wife or partner who’s having the LE or affair, things don’t look so good to a man for he feels emasculated and worries about family, friends, neighbors, and society that looks at him as a rare thing and a weakling. His ego is hurt…but when they cheat it’s supposed to be ok? So it’s a very delicate situation in both cases.
In any event, the best thing is not to compare yourself with the SO’s LO, keep your self esteem high, and keep your dignity impeccable . Keep communicating as peaceful as possible. Let logic reign.
Best wishes
Nisor, I like how passionate you are about soothing Ann and getting justice for her situation. I want that for her, too.
I have no idea if my story is helpful for Ann’s situation. I just know that it worked for us. I was baffled by my husband’s response to my LE. He wasn’t angry or combative. He was (and still is) loving and kind. He was/is willing to let me enjoy the benefits of having contact with my LOs as long as we remain faithful to our spouses (which we do). It’s working quite well.
Perhaps I should outline what my relationships with my LOs looks like. LO2 was the reason I found LwL. Our current relationship consists of texting in a group text with a mutual friend one to four days per month. The communication is usually updates about our families, work and hobbies. Usually it’s silly memes. Sometimes we talk about things that are weighing us down (for example, our mutual friend’s mom had a stroke so LO2 asked me to cheer him up). The three of us get together for lunch sometimes. My SO knows about our conversations and visits. I don’t know if their wives know. I don’t have any limerent symptoms for LO2 since I transferred to LO3 more than a year ago. Our friendship went back to normal for the most part.
LO3 and I leave messages for each other in a training app. We encourage each other towards our training goals and bounce ideas off each other. We talk about other things as they come up, but most of our communication is about our training, adventures and races. We haven’t seen each other in over a year because we haven’t had any reason to see each other. I don’t think I have limerence for LO3 or anyone, but I am attracted to LO3. Because of our mutual attraction, my SO asked me not to train in person with LO3. I am allowed to train alone with other men, just not LO3. When I told LO3, he said that he admires my SO and agreed that it’s best if we don’t train together.
I guess something that is different about my situation is that I have always been willing to go NC with my LOs if my husband wanted me to go NC. One time, I even told my husband that I intended to go NC and he said, “Don’t make any changes to your relationship right now. Wait a few days and see if you change your mind.” He thought I was being too hard on myself because I was particularly emotional that day. Oddly enough, I had a feeling that my SO has sympathy for my LOs. It’s like he didn’t want to make them quit Lovisa cold turkey. I hope that makes sense. I know it’s odd, but that’s the feeling I had/have. It’s like my SO is happy to share me socially as long as all physical intimacy stays between me and SO. I’m probably not making sense. I’ll stop rambling on and on.
If you made it through that long message, you deserve a chocolate milk!
Anyway, Nisor, it sounds like you have been a friend to my buddy, Adam. Thank you for that.
Best wishes!
-Lovisa
Lovisa,
What I resent is that Ann’s SO is not even considering her feelings after his declaration to her by not talking about his LE. He dropped the bomb, and it’s like take it or leave it kind of thing. I mean, who does he think she is? For heavens sake she’s his wife, not a stranger. She has the right to know. It’s called decency… unless he’s gone mad and lost his common senses! Unbelievable! Again, I’m judging without knowing his side of the story. Perhaps not fair at all?
Have a great week.
If Ann’s husband won’t communicate with her can Ann threaten to take matters into her own hands? It can’t be hard to find out who this woman is. Can Ann simply disclose her husband’s feelings to the woman and ask her if she is in an affair with her husband?
Seems to me there was a poster on one of the blogs who wrote this exact scenario. Husband was acting weird, told her he was in love with another woman from the office, he didn’t want to change, and so the spouse confronted the other woman and it turns out the other woman had no idea and then was creeped out by the husband and made it an HR issue.
Very tough love but it threw a strong dose of reality onto the situation in a real fast way.
It seems to me Ann should not live in a state of unknowing limbo and resentment for months on end over this and should go fact collecting herself if her husband won’t come clean. At least then she will have the information on how to proceed forward with her marriage.
She can get the information she needs from his behavior. The fact that he is so withholding is a lot of information.
I would not go confronting the other women. That seems next-level, soap-opera drama. Particularly in a work place. Which could hurt him professionally. There’ll be a lot of gossip.
And even if this woman were to confirm there hasn’t been an affair, it’s not as if that clears him and they can go back to the way things were.
The issue isn’t so much whether he’s had an affair; it’s how he’s treating her.
I disagree. I think at minimum she needs to know whether he is involved in a PA or not. To me, that fact is critical in how she moves forward, both in her marriage and legally. If he’s not talking, well, LO is the next best source.
No, he is handling everything poorly. But a PA is infidelity and can have legal repercussions in a divorce. She may be tolerable of waiting out his LE if a PA has not occured but maybe not if one has. Sexual infidelity is a line in the sand for a lot of partners.
If Ann still wants to resolve the issue between the two, not at a legal level, she needs to get her husband to talk to see where he is. She can’t go to his work to deal with the other woman or PR directly, it will affect the husband’s job.
If she prepares for a legal battle or even just a legal threat, she does NEED solid PA proofs.
Remember Ann says she’s resenting this woman for destroying her marriage, and being this mysterious romantic woman who is obviously so much attractive than her, his boring wife…
It seems Ann would very much like to see this rival by herself, and see what’s she’s got that attracted her SO to this woman. It’s called curiosity, and why not jealousy! Ann calls herself a ‘boring wife’? Maybe she feels she’s neglected herself and got comfortable with the ‘housewife’ routine and also neglected her husband, took him for granted??? People need to evolve as the years pass to even off with the times, not to stay behind, in a rut.
One have to admit the wrenching pain that comes in a situation of a betrayal is demoralizing. Your life is turned upside down and you feel abandoned to your destiny from the person you trusted the most, your partner ; and this regardless if it’s a PA or EA, both are causes for despair and anger, pain and all kind of emotions under the sun. Everything in your life is shattered , your self esteem , self worth, trust, safety and truth.
A friend of mine who went through a betrayal by her husband last year said she was at the point of collapsing has it not been for counseling at church and good friends that supported her dearly. ( they divorced, no children involved).
There’s a blog on LwL/ Betrayal this month, right here.
To blame the other woman is the only one who is destroying the marriage is inaccurate and unfair; her husband, who has brain, willpower, marital vows to Ann, plays at least 50%, if not more, of the role in damaging the marriage and making her suffer. And he’s damaging more by not discussing it with Ann.
Here is Limerent Emeritus’ link again:
https://thoughtcatalog.com/melanie-berliet/2016/05/if-youre-going-to-hate-the-other-woman-please-hate-the-dude-too/
Even under a tremendous pain, we can use our logical thinking, which in return, could cognitively distance our emotional pains.
What if the other woman says this to Ann:
“But I didn’t seduce your husband [the man] with secret sensual powers, or target him in some kind of plot to demolish his former life. I didn’t lure him into any traps. And I never cheated on anyone. I simply followed my heart.”
Then how should Ann deal with her current excruciating deadlock?
“Then how should Ann deal with her current excruciating deadlock?”
Maybe something like this?
Another article from ThoughtCatalog: https://thoughtcatalog.com/anonymous/2020/03/everything-i-wish-i-could-tell-the-other-woman/
[Lots of off topic discussion moved to Coffeehouse] – Dr L
“He has become obsessed with a woman he works with and declared that he loves her and isn’t sure he wants to stay married to me any more or stay living at home with our children. ”
Control what you can and that also means no longer trusting that he has your back. He doesn’t because he’s not ALL IN. Go through the financial statements very carefully. You may discover that he’s already started separating it in anticipation of leaving you holding the bag. Pay down any personal debt you may have. Remove him from any joint credit cards. If you are an authorized user, you will be on the hook for any charges he rings up – get yourself removed AFTER you get your own credit card.
Consult a few divorce attorneys to know what your legal obligations are to him and the kids and vice versa. Some may offer a free one-hour consultation. There is a lot of information online but a good attorney knows how to navigate it. Knowing what your state will ask of you both is smart. As you have kids together, be prepared to look for and take a class on how to co-parent with an ex or STBX.
Do not trust to luck or past memories of happiness with him, or him with you, the kids, etc. He’s told you he’s thinking of moving on. Act accordingly.
He may not love you any longer but he should damn well respect you. More importantly, when you stand up for yourself and your family that will firm up the ground under your feet even if he’s pumping water into it.
Even if you stay married and he pulls himself together, you will have demonstrated that you are not someone to be treated lightly or as a consolation wife (see the urban dictionary).
Good luck.