Other people’s behaviour can be baffling.
When someone is limerent, this principle is even more obvious. We’ve all succumbed to limerent madness at one time or another. Some of the classics of the LwL community include: faking a love of Proust, exalting a particular branch of Starbuck’s coffee (that just happened to be near LO’s workplace), and living with an impulsively-purchased canoe (in the hope that it might impress an outdoorsy LO).
Such gestures are useful for helping us recognise we might have gone a little far in our endearing fervour. That realisation can also be good for deprogramming, because laughing at our own absurdity is a good way of puncturing the “True Love” narrative and facing reality.
Limerent behaviour is not always so transparent, though. Occasionally we can be a bit more wily and try to disguise the depth of our romantic obsession.
From time to time I’m asked by correspondents to try and “read the runes” of someone else’s behaviour to assess whether they might be in the grip of limerence. The motive varies – sometimes it’s a hopeful limerent who wonders whether their LO is mutually limerent, sometimes it’s a non-limerent who’s worried about the ardour of a besotted suitor – but they all want an answer to the question: “how can I tell if they are limerent for me?”
Well, there are some clues.
Let’s blow their cover…
1. Signs of overarousal
As all limerents know, the exhilaration of limerent euphoria manifests physically. Being with LO amps up your nerves and triggers an autonomic response. This reveals itself in the classic signs of arousal: faster breathing, racing heart, sweaty palms, and dilated pupils. Agitation.
It’s difficult to suppress or hide this response effectively. If you are talking to someone who is fidgety, excitable, breathing quickly, prone to outbursts of laughter, or generally seems emotionally brittle, then it’s possible they are more than usually sensitive to your presence.
Importantly, this arousal doesn’t only happen when a limerent is feeling good. It can also be triggered by jealousy or insecurity – say if you tease them or criticise them, or show interest in someone else. Extreme emotional responses to positive or negative cues are a sign of physiological arousal.
Everyone gets nervous around people they find attractive, but limerents get overaroused.
2. Remarkable attentiveness
Another clue that someone might be limerent is that they show a surprising degree of interest in your life. Limerents pay attention. They notice and remember.
An LO is the most important and significant stimulus in the limerent’s environment, and they think about them a lot. This tends to result in an apparently extraordinary memory for facts and detail about your time together, or stories of your life that you have shared.
If you sometimes feel like everything you say or do is being remembered with forensic precision, that gifts are perfectly tailored to your preferences, or that your needs are anticipated with eerie predictive power, you may be interacting with a limerent.
3. Conversational tells
In a similar category to overarousal, sometimes limerents can blurt out their thoughts before they filter them. That can be revealing.
Examples would be frequent Freudian slips, a tendency to push emotional boundaries, sexualise conversations, or jump to absurd conclusions.
You: Could I borrow your notes from yesterday’s lecture?
Them: Sure, when do you want to lick… errrr… pick them up?
You: Oh God, I’m so tired.
Them: My lap’s free if you need a pillow!
You: I’m having lunch with Sarah in accounts today.
Them: Fine! Well, I hope you invite me to the wedding!
4. Intimacy seeking
Another giveaway is the desire for more intimacy. This could be physical (frequent casual touching, lingering hugs, sitting closer than normal) or emotional (sharing dreams, asking about your personal life, confiding in you).
Friends are intimate, of course, but if your admirer seems to want more intimacy with you than with their other friends, that suggests deeper feelings. It could be a simple desire to be close, or it may be a deliberate test to see how comfortable you are with them encroaching on your space.
If emotional or physical intimacy seems to make them especially happy and giddy, they might be harbouring limerent feelings.
5. Sharing secrets
One way to build intimacy is through the sharing of secrets. Limerents often feel compelled to share their private thoughts and fears with an LO. They want you to know all about them, want you to approve of them, and reassure them that you care.
Sharing secrets is a powerful bonding mechanism, and that is what the limerent is instinctively seeking. This isn’t calculated, necessarily (although manipulative people can use this as a way of prompting reciprocation), but it does inevitably lead to an entanglement of your lives if you respond in kind by sharing your own inner thoughts.
Someone who is prone to oversharing may give a false alarm, but if you notice that you are a particular target for their secret-sharing then you may have unwittingly fallen into the role of LO.
6. Displays of trust
Finally, the flip side of secret sharing is open displays of trust. This is commonest for limerents who have some sort of professional influence over you. If you find yourself being asked to take on responsibilities – say looking after valuable objects, being trusted with keys or passwords, or promoted to a more senior position by a very effusive boss – this could be a overzealous limerent making a show of their regard for you.
In general, limerents like to communicate that they hold you in high esteem. They want you to know that they think you are special. Displaying trust is a way of doing this obliquely – it has some deniability but is also direct. There is a weird public/private tension to these sorts of displays – you are being singled out, but with open praise not covert favour.
If you feel that this sort of public acclaim is excessive, you may be dealing with a limerent.
So, those are some of the indicators to look for if you are wondering if that person who seems to be unusually interested may indeed be limerent for you. Any of these clues individually are innocuous and could be explained by plenty of causes other than limerence. Lots of them together begins to looks like a pattern.
Another last factor to be aware of is that some manipulative people can use these techniques to “pace” your emotions or test the strength of your regard for them. Be wary that it may not always be innocent limerent “leakage” that you are picking up on.
If, in contrast, you are limerent for someone else but don’t want them to know it, this list is also a handy guide on which cues to conceal.
Good luck out there in the limerent wild west, folks!
I check so many of these boxes with my co-worker. I hope she never reads this article. LOL
Yeah, I had a similar thought about a coworker of mine — except she checks several of these boxes herself too! For whatever reason, she can’t bring herself to break up with her live-in boyfriend. It’s probably for the best, it would just be a contest to see who came back to reality first.
…. to see who came back to reality first…. words to row a boat with – in the opposite direction! Thanks for the comment.
Wow! What a great article! This definitely was an enjoyable read! If I were to make one very minor criticism, however, I would say that maybe the piece casts its net just a little too wide in the generality of its proposed clues and/or paints typical limerent behaviour with too broad a brushstroke. On the other hand, I appreciate that the comic irony/slight exaggeration is intentional and is also what makes the article so wonderfully entertaining… 😉
The lap-as-a-pillow Freudian slip. Hm, yes. Who hasn’t been there? At least in one’s imagination if not in real life… 🤣
I guess what I’m really trying to say is that some of these behaviours may be indicative of limerence, but also may not be indicative of limerence. For example, I’ve been on the receiving end of quite a bit of favouritism from authority figures in my time, (Clue 6: Displays of Trust), but I don’t believe any of these authority figures entertained limerent feelings for me. I think the “trust” stemmed from the fact I was perceived as being calmer and more responsible than my peers.
I think Clue 2 (Remarkable Attentiveness) and Clue 4 (Intimacy Seeking) are good indicators of limerent feelings, and ones that I would personally display. However, I believe Clue 2 could also be chalked up to OCD traits in general and Clue 4 could be chalked up to a warm and friendly disposition. See what I mean? None of the clues on face value can or should be taken as proof of limerence. 😉
Clue 1 (Signs of Overarousal) would absolutely be the best bet in my mind that someone may be in limerence. However, I have met many overexcited little bunny rabbits in my life, who may have been limerent, but who weren’t limerent for me specifically. For example, a young man might be in a slightly manic, fidgety state because he just got off the phone with his girlfriend, who he IS crazy about. The girlfriend inspires the crazy feelings, and not the platonic male friends and the platonic female friends the young man subsequently addresses. 😉
At the risk of being branded both a pedant and a cynic/pessimist, I think most of the strongest signs of limerence in a person are not positive behaviours but negative behaviours. I think this list of six clues focuses perhaps too much on potential positive behaviours and not on potential negative behaviours. The list is too upbeat, unfortunately. (Am I even allowed to say that?) I think limerence is more reliably revealed by negative behaviours often displayed by the limerent.
For example, I would start suspecting someone was limerent for me if they (a) burst into tears around me for absolutely no good reason and refused to explain afterwards, (b) started acting very irritable when I paid polite attention to other people while behaving in a neutral manner toward them, or (c) started to display notable mood swings around me, oscillating between excessive joy and great despair, despite the fact that their life circumstances seem to be good. 😉
As always, I’ve been giving limerence quite a lot of thought as a spiritual condition/state of mind. I have reached the conclusion that limerence is basically a coin, if you like. And like all coins, limerence is a coin that has two sides. The two sides of this coin are “ecstasy” and “insecurity”. Limerents love the ecstasy side of the coin and they suffer terribly because of the insecurity side of the coin.
Hypothetically, a limerent could get sick of being insecure all the time, and say: “Okay. I’m tired of being a snivelling little fool for love. I’m going to ditch the insecurity and just be normal.” However, limerence is a fascinating affliction. The limerent cannot – I repeat, CANNOT – simply ditch the insecurity and hang onto the ecstasy. That’s NOT how limerence works. The insecurity and the ecstasy are a continuum – that is to say, the insecurity and the ecstasy are part of a package deal. The limerent who kisses goodbye to insecurity also, by default, kisses goodbye to ecstasy. And how many limerents are prepared to do that? 😉
Alternatively, a limerent may tell herself: “I like ecstasy. In fact, I feel like I don’t currently have enough ecstasy in my life. I’m going to go out of my way to get more ecstasy.” Hypothetically, the limerent could secure more ecstasy. But because of the dual nature of limerence, the limerent would have to PAY for the extra ecstasy with extra insecurity. In other words, there can be no intensification of pleasurable feelings without a commensurate intensification of self-depising feelings. Does that make sense? Limerents are paying for their pleasure with their pain. Want more joy? Great! Can you cope with increased sorrow, too?
I end my commentary today with one last thought. Not only have I experienced unrequited limerence for someone. I have also been someone’s (unknowing) LO. Actually, when I was young and suffering for limerence for some uninterested young man, a young lady was simultaneously limerent for me. It was quite a comical situation or quite a tragical situation, depending on how one looks at it. Suffice it to say, nobody in that bizarre love triangle was ever going to get what they wanted! Eternal frustration of desire was the name of the game. 🤔
I have no idea why the young woman became limerent for me. She developed these feelings for me after a single conversation. I liked this girl very much as a platonic friend, and found her company enlivening. However, I harboured no secret passion for her and was simply incapable of seeing her in a romantic light.
Actually, I think what happened was that the young lady correctly identified the fact that (1) I was a fellow limerent, and (2) that I was actively experiencing limerence. (I was clearly showing signs of overarousal). However, she incorrectly assumed that SHE was the object of my limerence, and not another classmate.
So I guess this scenario was a case of … mistaken identity? Crossed wires? Miscommunication? I think this is one scenario that so far hasn’t really been explored in much depth at LwL, but it’s worth keeping in mind as a possible explanation for “confusing behaviour in an LO”. I.e. Person A is limerent for Person B and Person B is limerent for Person C. However, Person A wrongly assumes that Person B is limerent for Person A, and disregards Person C!! 😉
Great comments! Enjoyed your thoughts on this.
Sammy, I had been not exactly limerent, but crushing after a gay guy. Even after I know he was gay. Hawt is hawt!
I had a slight crush on a gay guy in my neighborhood about a year ago. It didn’t last long and it wasn’t a LE (thankfully) but now I heard through the neighborhood rumor mill that another woman in the neighborhood has a crush on him. Oh good luck. I’m hoping she isn’t limerence for him because she is going down the wrong road on this one.
Yes, indeed, it could be absolutely devastating for the LO gay guy. I hope she sees sense before any damage is done.
This happened to me where I was limerent with someone… And another man had the same name as them, who was a friend, so for some reason I started acting limerent But I would catch myself doing it and then back off, the boy with the same name ended up thinking I was weird.when I literally wasn’t meaning to be, it was just my brain being stupid, and confused because of the whole name thing. So I tried to ignore the guy, and he ended up getting mad that I stopped talking to bim, and he started yelling at me….idk why… Anyway it happens where limerence bleeds into our lives else where, and we have to face it. Not fun.
I had a similar experience with someone having the same name as my LO! A few years ago, many years after the LE, I just so happened to meet a guy with the same first name as my very first LO, who was also from the same hometown (where I grew up). He was only a few years older than my first LO would have been by then, and was similar enough in appearance (I wouldn’t be able to recognize my first LO on sight because we’ve both aged so much). When this guy told me where he was from, I had a mini heart attack and asked him what street he’d lived on, and mercifully he was NOT my first LO. Still my wires got crossed and I started to want *this* man to like me even though he’s not my present-day type at all. It got so bad that I was sending him mixed signals of possibly being interested, even though he’s a little too old for me and, again, not my type…
You know, this reminds me of the plot of A Midsummer Night’s Dream. Has anyone ever made a version with gay people in it? I think it would be pretty intriguing.
Interesting and honest comment. Limerence is always negative (inc the arousal experience) as it manifests towards either end of a continuum of emotions and is therefore not centred in the reality of the balanced middle, where truth, reality and ultimately peace is found. Euphoria and rejection are not trusted guides on the pilgrimage towards the authentic self.
“If, in contrast, you are limerent for someone else but don’t want them to know it, this list is also a handy guide on which cues to conceal.”
Oh my goodness, Dr L, I just posted a comment on the New Year purpose thread about how I concealed my own limerence before I read this article. Serendipity.
I actually think one thing I did extremely well was to curb intimacy seeking. I am, by nature, very private, so perhaps it was second nature to me to curb intimacy seeking, both emotional and physical (seriously, I feared that if I ever touched LO I would combust). Also, I never shared secrets with LO. I don’t even share secrets with my SO, so again, it was probably second nature.
The main way I think I might have revealed interest is Remarkable Attentiveness.
This is a very interesting topic because I have spent countless hours analyzing my LOs cues trying to figure out if she was limerent for me. My LE started for a woman (my employee) after 3+ years because I started to catch a vibe of attraction from her. For 10 months I tried to figure out her level of attraction. Some days it felt thick and she ticked off a lot of the attraction boxes, others felt ho hum.
If you follow the New Years thread, I had disclosure only to find out everything was just friendship. That sort of blew my mind, because I was so sure at times she was exhibiting attraction.
But what came up in the other thread was a bit of an interesting discussion about the differences in men and women. Women seem to have an ability to exhibit some signs of romantic attraction with those they want to be platonically close to without actually actively being in that romantic head and heart space. And I have seen this trend in more than a few stories here on LwL. This seems especially prevalent in workplace relationships. On the other hand, males seem to only act attracted when they are actively attracted. At least I do.
I think male limerents need to be very cautious about cues from the close female LOs because even though we may see actual cues of attraction from LO they might just be signs of closeness and comfortability that are non romantic.
Just something to chew on…especially since I am going through it now with LO.
Speed,
As I wrote in the other thread so much of this stuff is subconscious. I think you are on the right track with the comfort, that is the one I ended up on as well. It is a safe place to be. Also, correct I believe.
These next thoughts are kind of a danger zone so feel free to disregard. People have always been a strength of mine. I pick up what they are putting down. When I walk into a room I know the vibe. I put the right people in the right places for my business. I am always tasked with working with the most difficult employees because my director knows I have a talent for reading people and making things work.
As with your story I worked with LO for an extended period before I ever caught a glimmer. Something WAS there, not intentionally, but there nonetheless. This was before she got engaged and we flirty joked and talked about relationships more. That hasn’t been the case since.
We are friends and she is comfortable with me which is great. She can file me away in that zone easily whereas I cannot do so very easily. Whatever it was for that moment is still there as I see it from time to time but she has something to protect now. I can feel it. There is a distance between us that she doesn’t have with our other few friends at work. It isn’t a physical or social distance.
Or I’m just a loon. Either way it doesn’t matter I am thankful to spend this time with her. It makes me feel so much better to write this stuff out though.
Sorry for the essay 😫
Speedwagon,
“Women seem to have an ability to exhibit some signs of romantic attraction with those they want to be platonically close to without actually actively being in that romantic head and heart space. ”
What signs of romantic attraction was she showing? Because emotional closeness does not always equate to romantic attraction for women. It can, but women can be emotionally close to their friends in a way I don’t think men are close to their friends, so men mistake emotional closeness for sexual interest.
Was she flirting with you? Was she touching you? Was she making suggestive comments or complimenting you on your appearance? Was she standing/sitting very closely to you? Did she seem nervous around you? When you walked into the room, did her eyes go right to you? Did she seem to hyper focus her attention on you to the exclusion of other people in the room? Did she avoid conversations about other men she may be dating/was interested in and/or not like if you talked about other women? I would categorize all of those as signs of romantic attraction.
You really broke it down Marcia. I know for me I can check a few of those boxes but not all of them. Is there a version of attraction that never gets to romantic thoughts for women? Can you think someone is attractive spend time with them and just kinda think “well, this is neat but would never work out for X reason” and be their friend? Specifically when they have something to protect?
Thank you for the post, some really good information in there!
“I know for me I can check a few of those boxes but not all of them. ”
You don’t have to check all of them.
“Is there a version of attraction that never gets to romantic thoughts for women? Can you think someone is attractive spend time with them and just kinda think “well, this is neat but would never work out for X reason” and be their friend? Specifically when they have something to protect?”
I mean, yeah, I guess. Or an “I’m enjoying the sexual tension, the charge, the attention, but I’ll never act on it. ” Or an “I’m enjoying the sexual tension, the charge, the attention, but I’m not attracted enough to act on it.” There are any number of possibilities.
Yes to a lot of those. First, we have great banter chemistry. She will sit close, stand close, I will catch her looking at me, even to the point where she makes an effort to look at me (she turns to catch eye contact when passing my office door) , we have long eye contact to the point of awkwardness when we talk, she will remember little details about me or things I said months later, she will play with her hair a lot when we talk, and she will lean in quite a bit when we talk if we are sitting. Touching, not a lot, little conversational touches but I am not a touchy person and neither is she and we are in a professional office.
I like the round table analogy…if I sit at a round table, my other employees sit directly across from me. She always sits closely next to me.
All these things felt like romantic attraction but supposedly I misread all of them. She has only felt friendship according to her. But like Rufio said, the barriers might have created I divide between these cues and her actual feelings of friendship. Maybe if we were both single it would be no question of romance.
For me it’s confusing.
And throw a lot of off work hours texting into the mix…it all fed my LE to the point if madness and I broke and disclosed.
I mean, those sound like signs of romantic interest. But I have to ask you: Does it matter? If she is telling you it’s only friendship, she’s putting up a barrier and telling you nothing will happen.
I guess I’m weird as limerent in that knowing the LO was interested wasn’t enough. It’s like a friend saying, “I thought of you so much and wanted to get in touch.” But you didn’t get in touch, so what do the words really mean? I wanted my LO to act on his interest. And he wasn’t going to. People can be attracted to/interested in many people. But that’s me.
@Marcia
What I want is a great question and one I have struggled with greatly. Honestly, there are days I want a full PA. I have fantasized about the logistics of that and how it would work. But there are many other days where I just want her to actually say to me that I am special to her and she wants us to have a unique personal relationship. Maybe EA light at minimum.
But I think you hit the nail on the head with the barrier issue. I jumped that fence a long time ago and was willing to play the game. EA maybe even PA. But because of the barrier whatever level of attraction she felt was not an active romantic desire in her mind and categorized as friendship. Makes sense if she is trying to justify certain attraction like behaviors to me.
Now that I disclosed, shit got real for her and it will be interesting to see if she completely withdraws or if she still has a desire for closeness and exhibits signs of attraction again. I can say that the day I disclosed and the day after she did not seem creeped out or uncomfortable with me at all. Today will be first time in 6 days I see her, I am very curious where things move from here but as I said in the other blog, that is completely under her control. I can no longer pursue.
Speedwagon,
“There is a definite difference for me from run of the mill sexual attraction and romantic attraction. I am sexually attracted to a lot of women of all various types …
But a lot of times these romantic attractions are still just crushes and don’t reach a level where I change my behavior much. Maybe just more interaction on a personal level. At any given time I seem to have 1-2 women who I feel this way for … But for my LO, she hit me at a whole new level.”
You didn’t really answer the question. 🙂 Does it matter if she has feelings for you and tells you if she won’t act on them? And here’s another one: Would you want to know how deeply the feelings run?
I ask because your post made me think. I casually dated someone I had a crush on during the end of my LE. Unlike what you describe, a crush does change my behavior. I sought him out; I encouraged his attention. And I was disappointed things didn’t work out. But I wasn’t devastated. The crush was exponentially easier to get over and once I finally made up my mind it was a waste of time, I was over it in about a week. Unlike limerence, that seemed to park in my subconscious and lingered for a very long time.
I bring this up because I wonder what category I fit in for the crush. Was I just a garden variety attraction? A crush? I doubt he was limerent. I know he had been flirting with/talking to another woman a few months before he started to me. Was he limerent for her? She wasn’t available. And when he started talking to me, there was another woman he was also talking to. As I wrote, it was very casual between us and I am grateful that he distracted me from LO. But I would not want to be dating someone who was crushing on someone else let alone limerent. It all sounds kind of yucky.
And it’s hard to even want to think about what category I fit into for LO. I’m afraid to even go there.
@Marcia,
My psyche wants to know that she feels the same as I do. Maybe not limerent, but attracted, yes. I put myself out there and disclosed, I want her to reciprocate that. On practical relational terms, I don’t know that it changes a ton. We already have a warm office friendship, but I think I was hoping that if she felt attraction to me, she would also pursue a level of out of office relationship with me, primarily through texting. But right now, since I disclosed, she is hyper sensitive of her SO finding out and questioning her. Texts that were perfectly OK a couple weeks ago are now not OK to her since I disclosed. (This is all laid out in the new Years blog.)
Because we are both married we have obvious and clear barriers to spending time together outside the work day so texting is kind of it. I don’t know, I am still wondering if there is a friendship there enough to pursue her outside the workplace. Maybe. But if she had disclosed, making that plan together would have been easier and more fun.
As for crushes, it’s a lot of symantics labeling attraction levels but my perspective is from being a married man. I still get crushes on various women. I have 2 right now. I can have light fantasies about these women, both sexually and emotionally, about romance with them, but nothing that comes close to approaching limerence. When I am actually around them my behavior is normal. I can flirt a bit if I choose, or not at all. I am in total control of myself and my thoughts. This is so different from LO. What is interesting is LO wasn’t even a crush, she was just a run of the mill physical attraction and went from that to LO in 10 short days because I caught a glimmer with her. My crushes are primed and waiting to become a LO if I ever caught the glimmer, but for me the glimmer is a sense of mutual attraction. I do not become limerent for women who seem uninterested in me.
So, Speedy,
“We already have a warm office friendship, but I think I was hoping that if she felt attraction to me, she would also pursue a level of out of office relationship with me, primarily through texting. But right now, since I disclosed, she is hyper sensitive of her SO finding out and questioning her. Texts that were perfectly OK a couple weeks ago are now not OK to her since I disclosed. (This is all laid out in the new Years blog.) Because we are both married we have obvious and clear barriers to spending time together outside the work day so texting is kind of it. I don’t know, I am still wondering if there is a friendship there enough to pursue her outside the workplace. Maybe. But if she had disclosed, making that plan together would have been easier and more fun.”
That sounds like you want to pursue an Emotional Affair with your LO. It sounds like she’s not going to be a willing participant, at least not at this point. But, something happens in her life, and it’s a whole new ballgame. Are you prepared for that possibility?
You’ve planted the seed. Time will tell how it plays out. Like LEs, EAs take work to manage. Depending on the intensity of your EA, it could take a lot of work. You know the ground you’re on. You want to develop an intimate relationship outside your marriage.
Plan accordingly. You want things to ramp up? They easily could at some point and you should be ready to deal with that.
@ LE
Yes, you are correct that I want an EA with her. And if I am being totally honest, I probably want a PA though I doubt I could really follow through on that because I don’t want to blow up my life.
I don’t want a heavy EA, just some communication maybe a couple times a week outside the walls of the office. Just something that keeps a sense of connection with her that feels more than an average office relationship.
Whether it ever comes to be, who knows? Am I prepared for it? Probably not, I wasn’t prepared for any of this. And maybe my LE fades before she ever gets there emotionally. I don’t know.
Speedy,
If you’re lucky your LE will fade but since you can’t get away from her, it’s not going to be easy.
What you may find is that if your LO ever does get there emotionally, what is largely theoretical becomes panic strikingly real.
Plus, consider this. If you know where your line is, how do you communicate that to her? When the pooh hit the fan for me, it was a shock for me to realize that there was a real person in this and what I said and did seemed to matter.
This isn’t just about you.
Speedwagon,
“My crushes are primed and waiting to become a LO if I ever caught the glimmer, but for me the glimmer is a sense of mutual attraction. ”
That’s kind of scary. All it takes is mutual attraction, and you’re limerent?
In all honesty, do you think you’re just bored? These attraction/crushes give you something to focus on and occupy yourself with? I know a lot of my LEs happened at work with jobs I was very bored with. And it sure made work more interesting if an LO was there.
“That’s kind of scary. All it takes is mutual attraction, and you’re limerent?”
Considering that in 22 years of marriage this is the first time I felt someone was attracted to me, no, not scary. It’s very rare at my age to find mutual attraction, I don’t expect it to happen ever with any of my crushes. But yes, I like having crushes and maybe it’s boredom. I don’t know really what triggers having crushes. Basic human sexuality I suppose.
“It’s very rare at my age to find mutual attraction
Sounds like that Chris Rock joke. “A man is only as faithful as his options.”
> On the other hand, males seem to only act attracted when they are actively attracted. At least I do. <
This is something I’ve always wondered about. I feel like there’s a stereotype that men develop physical attraction more readily than women – and for a broader range of physical types – but that attraction is also more likely to be shallow or purely motivated by lust. This may not be entirely true, but my own experiences have certainly shown that men tend to be more open to considering a women a viable sexual partner based on one or two attractive physical traits rather than a holistic view of her as a person.
What I would love to figure out is what separates “physical attraction only” from “romantic desire”, at least when friendship gets thrown into the mix. I understand meeting a woman and thinking “she has pretty eyes and a great butt, ergo she’s cute”. What I don’t understand is how you can continue to bond with this person, adding in all the emotional ties that come along with friendship – clicking on a personal level, sharing interests, having good conversations and a compatible sense of humour, some level of intimacy – and see them as “my friend who I think is sexy” but not a real romantic prospect.
I think that comment just hit hard because it’s the exact issue I’m struggling with in terms of trying to “figure out” my current LO. I know he finds me attractive – I’m a good-looking woman, and I’ve been around long enough to be able to recognize the signs that someone is into me physically. We also clicked almost immediately on a personal level – I know he enjoys my company and considers me a friend.
What I can’t figure out is if that’s all I am to him – his attractive friend. I know it’s very possible that he thinks I’m pretty and fun to hang out with without considering me a romantic prospect, but I have no idea what that looks like when compared to actual romantic attraction.
I’m sure that my inability to grasp the idea that you can think someone is attractive and enjoy their company without actually developing feelings for them is more to do with my serial limerence than my gender – for me, those two pieces alone are enough to start a pretty intense glimmer. Add in some flirtatious behaviour or some sign that they might be romantically interested and they become a viable LO – with barriers and uncertainty pushing the whole thing into a full-blown episode. With my current LO I’m stuck wondering whether that sense of flirtatious behaviour was an expression of real romantic desire, or just a side effect of his shallow physical attraction to me and him enjoying the glow of my feelings for him.
At the very least I hope this comment helps highlight that both genders can be confusing LOs for different reasons – while women may express their purely emotional affection in a way that can come off as romantic attraction, men may show signs of sexual attraction in the context of a friendship and yet have no desire to actually pursue a romantic relationship.
Are you familiar with Attachment Theory?
Each person has a different tolerance for intimacy and responds to it differently.
There are several articles in the index on Attachment Theory. It pops up in many others.
I think there’s a difference from some people between sexual attraction and romantic attraction. From what I’ve read, men feel sexual attraction for a lot of women. It’s the shallow, lust attraction you wrote of. But romantic attraction is about who they’d have a relationship with. And I’m assuming that level of attraction is deeper (involves considering the whole person) and has fewer candidates who fit the bill.
I know for me I didn’t find my LO that attractive right from the get go. Once I got to know her personally though it was over. She is a beautiful person.
@Yvette
There is a definite difference for me from run of the mill sexual attraction and romantic attraction. I am sexually attracted to a lot of women of all various types. At most, if I actually have interaction with these women it might solicit light flirtiness. That’s about it. And I actually am friends or colleagues with a number of women that I find attractive physically but the attraction does not enter into the equation of my behavior with them one bit.
On the other hand, romantic attraction happens when all if a sudden I start an emotional connection with a woman. It is hard to determine when or if this will happen. But a lot of times these romantic attractions are still just crushes and don’t reach a level where I change my behavior much. Maybe just more interaction on a personal level. At any given time I semm to have 1-2 women who I feel this way for.
But for my LO, she hit me at a whole new level. I could not help but act in a way that seemed like I was attracted to her and wanted to be a part of her world. All the cues of full romantic interest were a part of our interactions. I wanted to be around her, look into her eyes, touch her, flirt with her, have deep and shallow conversation with her. It was all the actions of trying to court someone. It was complete romantic attraction.
This was the first woman in 22 years of marriage that affected me this way, and it turned into a full LE.
Speed, I have a question. During your LE did you ever have days or periods of time where all you could do was irrationally worry about messing something up with LO?
I have no clue why but my brain is stuck on losing the friendship base I’ve built right before she leaves. I have nothing to base this on as the last time I saw her Friday night it was a fun time.
rufio,
If you’re confused now, wait until you get into the explanation/apology cycle.
Other than disclose? Lol. No I did not worry about that but I have to interact with my LO every day so there was not an atmosphere of whether I would talk to her on any given day or not. She never exhibited any sign she was ever pulling back on our friendship in the office. With texting though, yes. Texting went hot and cold and I did worry that our texting relationship would cool off, and it did, and now it’s dead since I disclosed.
From what I am seeing we will still maintain a good friend relationship inside the office, but that is where it looks to end now. Because I am married and so is she we do not have opportunity to see each other outside the office. Our biggest dates are work outings.
When I first met LO I had no other thought of her than she is pretty and nice. I worked with LO for about 4 months on a project that I was paired with her. All during that time I just found her to be a nice gal to work with. It wasn’t until she would tell me things about her living conditions. Got to meet her daughter for the first time. Laughed at my bad jokes. And let me help her with whatever it was she needed help with.
The level of her attractiveness never really ever registered to me until the glimmer. And I couldn’t even tell you what specific event triggered it. But by that time I had already went back to the location I normally worked at and wasn’t seeing her everyday. When I could see what a hard working woman and mother she was and how she was quite a catch as a mate than it started becoming more apparent to me I found her attractive. Complete with bumbling compliments and awkward moments.
So while I found her attractive to start (and so honestly are the other two young ladies that worked with her) it wasn’t until I saw who she was as a person that the attraction intensified. But god packed a lot of sunshine in that woman and it was easier to see how much she shined.
New here. How do I shorten up my experience. I guess it’s either limerence or narcissism. A female coworker and I were clearly friends at first because we were both married to other people. We went to a work conference together. Afterwards we decided to go to dinner, which as I saw as no big deal. Then she asked me if I wanted to go for drinks. Again, I thought why not. We went back to the hotel, and she asked the receptionist if they could turn on the outside firepit. Next thing we’re outside having drinks by the fire. We just seemed to connect. Fast forward a few months later, we went to another conference. We bought a bottle of wine and sat in the hotel lobby and drank and talked for hours and shared lots of intimate details about our personal lives. Her body language was so obvious. At this point, I was feeling the sparks. Same thing the following night. After the conference ended and we went back home, I was really feeling like something was happening between us. When she would go on other work trips, she would call me from the airport terminal, video call from her hotel room, video call from breakfast at her conference. She was at an Eric Church concert one night and texted me, “hey, I got a picture of your twin.” On my birthday she texted “It’s your birthday? I didn’t get a chance to sing to you”. I posted a picture to social media and during a video call, she told me that the picture made her week. What would any guy be thinking at this point? Fast forward a few months later, she told me she was getting a divorce. I was shocked and offered up my emotional support if she needed it. It was at this point, things began to change. She became hot and cold. The texts slowed down and she started canceling our work calls at the last minute. She started ghosting me a lot I figured she needed some space to heal, and I gave it to her. At the next work conference she was pretty cold. Again, I wanted to give her space. A few months went by and I knew I needed to be honest with her about my feelings. I explained how our connection just seemed to grow. She acknowledged the connection. Last week, she told me that she had a date a few days ago. I was floored. I mean absolutely crushed. She was really insensitive about, especially after I had come clean with her. I was really hurt and angry, told her I think it’s a good idea we not talk anymore. She said I had obviously misinterpreted things. I was like WTF? This only made things worse for me. I removed her from social media and told her that I want this to end. I can’t be friends with someone who could be this disrespectful to my feelings. She sent a text hoping we could talk so that she could try to understand. I didn’t answer right away, but I said, I would be willing to listen. She never answered. She still hasn’t answered. I’m heartbroken, but I have respect for myself also. Now I’m wondering if I overreacted. Help!!
Are you still married? This could have a big effect on what any of this means. I also didn’t get a huge limerent vibe from your story. Could just be lost in translation though.
I am but there are issues. I guess the limetent vibe is the strong attraction I felt and still feel. Maybe I’m wrong.
Brandon,
I could have written much of your post and have. It’s scattered around the site under this and my previous screen name.
You’re married. Nothing about this will make your marriage better. Trust me.
https://livingwithlimerence.com/limerence-and-the-rescue-fantasy/#comment-37014
My LO’s change in her relationship kicked a snowball off the hill that took a year to resolve and the end result was we haven’t spoken in years.
Keep things professional and don’t try to figure them out. She’s given you the opportunity to get out.
Take it.
It’s good to know I’m not alone. I will be starting a new job soon and I will no longer have to work with her. The whole situation was handled very poorly. There was obvious chemistry as it doesn’t take rocket science to figure out when two people click. She was clearly flirtatious. I fell like a rock when I wasn’t planning on it. To be told that I misunderstood and was just a colleague/friend is insulting. Being ghosted after she initiated wanting to talk, reeks of narcissism. Good riddance!
“If you’re confused now, wait until you get into the explanation/apology cycle.”
Hmm, could you elaborate any? I have a feeling I may have done some of this already as I have apologized to her a couple times for venting/using her as “free counseling” as we like to joke. She has said both times she doesn’t mind and likes talking to me.
The more I look back(a dangerous past time, I know) the more I think she just tolerates it. I usually go to her area and chat but from time to time she comes to mine and will walk up to me and start talking. It is way more one sided than my limerent brain would like to admit. Keep coming back to “never enough”. Bleh.
It’s a topic that pops up now and again. Apologies with in an LE can have a lot of nuance.
tl/dr
https://livingwithlimerence.com/dating-red-flags-for-limerents/#comment-11862 – A basic explanation, start here
https://livingwithlimerence.com/living-with-uncertainty/#comment-2137
https://livingwithlimerence.com/freedom-from-limerence/#comment-5394
https://livingwithlimerence.com/the-four-phases-of-no-contact/#comment-4887
https://livingwithlimerence.com/los-who-wont-let-go/#comment-7374
https://livingwithlimerence.com/resolving-to-recover/#comment-7538
https://livingwithlimerence.com/the-recovery-mindset/ – Just read all the comments
https://livingwithlimerence.com/people-pleasing-limerents/#comment-7878 – That string is one of my better ones.
https://livingwithlimerence.com/people-pleasing-limerents/#comment-7888
https://www.facebook.com/j4ourk – a cautionary tale
https://livingwithlimerence.com/case-study-ghosted-by-lo/ – Apologies come up a lot in this thread, too
https://livingwithlimerence.com/how-to-disclose-if-you-want-no-for-an-answer/#comment-21897
https://livingwithlimerence.com/why-is-limerence-so-addictive/#comment-35636
FB and social media are big drivers of action, they are carefully designed that way.
Limerence doesnt like INERTIA of mind or behaviour towards LO and drives consistently to overcome anything that is feeding INERTIA e.g doubt about effect on SO…deciding not to leave SO…doubt about LO…doubt about wisdom of any messaging or contact. Limerence attacks or bypasses the INERTIA (the text you had decided not to send… gets sent, the meet up you had decided not to set up… gets set up) after all we are complex viral creatures and viruses have to push hard to be successful and reproduce. We are pushing back and fighting powerful biological drives as our social morality tries to get back in control. We all know the inner conflict this sets up is at times immense. Contradictory thought and actions abound. Humans are apparently designed not to pair bond for life. Libido weakens as the years pass in any relationship. Change your partner and the libido comes back, obstacles are no good to libido, if the power of Limerence gets added in….its trouble and till you have had your first taste of it hard to believe what a force it can be. Good luck to all of us who do our best to try and make the right calls.
“We are pushing back and fighting powerful biological drives as our social morality tries to get back in control. The inner conflict this sets up is immense.”
^
More than a year NC and then one moment of weakness & I’m back in that ol’ headspace! Someone give me strength! ha.
Anyone had this scenario? LO comes back from overseas . You foolishly suggest a catch up to which they agree and then… they leave you hanging as days and days go by! You then feel like an idiot for extending the invite and write a note to yourself that says amongst other things, GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE! You promised yourself not to accept the crumbs. Sigh.
Let me see if I understand, Jay. You were recovered from limerence for a year. Then LO was in town so you suggested a friendly get together to catch up. LO agreed but didn’t follow through.
That would send anyone back down the limerent rabbit hole. Ugh!
You need a distraction. You were thinking about other things before LO came back, can you remember what interested you?
Remember, this might be casual for LO, she might not realize how much she effects you.
That really stinks but you will get through it. Be strong.
Thanks Lovisa.:-) I would say I’d managed it well for a year plus, which is to say it can wax and wane.
I think the living with purpose idea has real value and to that end I am travelling myself shortly so that is my distraction.
I’m self aware enough now in my older age to understand I’ve long had an attraction to unavailable women. Just something I need to keep working on /manage.
If you want to pull that string…
https://livingwithlimerence.com/im-totally-over-this-lets-go-for-coffee/
https://livingwithlimerence.com/when-los-return/
https://livingwithlimerence.com/when-los-return-part-two/
I just noticed that DrL never answered the questions I asked in those blogs.
Oh, well, the statute of limitations has run out.
It’s a really afflicting feeling; almost completely out of your control. I think also how old you are reflects how well you can manage these emotions. A 40 year old might be able to pull off hiding their turmoil better than a 17 year old.
Also, the social dynamic of your particular situation.
There’s someone at church who is driving me absolutely crazy. But the fact that it’s within a spiritual context has me comprehending everything as a larger, more energetic thing. Perhaps we have to look past the narrowness of singular infatuation. Something larger could be a play.
I’m wondering, though, the differences between a crush [essentially the same thing as limerence?] and actually being in love. Love gets a bad wrap. Most people assume love when they mean infatuation. I think we all know [true] love is a much more abundant thing than the icky feelings associated with obsession, suspicious, jealousy, etc.
Then there’s the possibility of them actually liking you back.
What then? I have a hunch. We’d be ecstatic, but humans being humans, things would eventually get mundane since the usual elements of being in a relationship would set in. I know this site is devoted to those initial feelings and living with their consequences, but the playing out of mutual affection is seldom touched on.
This is very much a psycho-physiological conundrum, but I feel there’s something more to it.
This site has a lot of good blogs on various stages of attraction and infatuation vs love vs crushes. I would start reading a lot of back articles.
This site is devoted to limerence as a debilitating addiction to another person. Yes, limerence can be positive and euphoric for those that meet a reciprocating partner without barriers. But if a relationship does not develop then limerence can be an overwhelming and disruptive occurrence in a persons life that takes real effort to overcome. And limerence is certainly different than bonded love.
I am not sure I understand your situation, sounds like you feel someone at your church is limerent for you? Are you limerent as well? Is this a bad thing?
This probably wasn’t the best thing for me to read right now. I’m at a down point in my LE right now. I’ve got examples of my LO with everything listed. I also have a question. What do you think of mirroring? I’ve purposely changed my fidgeting and he is definitely following what I’m currently doing. I’m battling myself. I want to know if he feels the same way, but I also know it’s no use as we both are in long term relationships.
Even before I knew I was going through limerence, I’ve adjusted my behaviour opposite to the list. I was freaking out because this is the first time I’ve felt like this in my relationship. For more context, with other male coworkers, I’m comfortable to banter with and open up to. But with my LO I found myself closing off, even stepping back when he got too close. It’s been more than a year now. Some days are good, I feel like I can move on. Days like this, I’m wishing things were different. I feel like right now we’re both using the high to help us get through the days. I feel like neither of us wants to cross the line, but we enjoy each others company. And for some reason I want to know for sure.
I can relate to this, Lolo. I think it sounds like you are both currently in limbo – inhibited about disclosing, but both sensing enough mutual attraction to keep you hooked on the high (and mad with uncertainty).
This is the most risky aspect of the situation. That desire for closure; to find out if they are limerent for you too. One way to deal with this uncertainty is to work through the consequences of disclosing to “settle the matter” once and for all:
1) You will get some fleeting relief from the uncertainty.
2) It will not last.
3) Whether he reciprocates or not, you will be in a worse position because…
4) You now share an intimate secret with LO that neither of your long-term partners know about, which is a betrayal of trust. The only way around this is to disclose to your SO first, but they are very likely to not want you to disclose to LO.
5) You have moved from private internal battles to public collusion.
6) You cannot take it back and restore professional boundaries.
7) You cannot control what LO does with the information.
That might sound like catastrophising (it might be catastrophising), but if you know that you do not want to end your existing relationship and start a new one with LO, you are in a far better position by not disclosing. You are more likely to solve the internal pain of uncertainty by being decisive and purposeful about your own limerence management plan than by disclosing to LO in the hope it will resolve your discomfort with uncertainty.
tl;dr – I think you are doing the right thing and disclosure to LO is more likely to worsen your pain than resolve it.
Thank you Dr L. I needed everything you said. I know all of what you said, but when I’m in a low point like where I am now, the temptation to say something somehow seems the right thing to do. I know it isn’t! I guess I needed some sort of feedback from someone to remind me all the ways disclosing is not the right thing to do. It’s only selfishness on my behalf to get some sort of closure. But the consequences of whichever way he’ll react is too dire! I love my job. And when I’m doing well, my LO and I are in a good working relationship. I don’t want to ruin that. I just need to work on myself and stop relying on the highs limerence gives me when I need it.
Like @Speedwagon said, I’m not convinced that “mirroring” behaviour is necessarily as big a marker of feeling as the internet would have you believe. I’m sure loads of us have gone through a period of googling articles on “signs of attraction” hoping for some clue as to whether LO reciprocates our feelings. Most of those articles show a narrow view of what attraction *can* look like, but don’t take into account how wildly different people can be in their approach to social situations. Things like strong eye contact, mirroring body language, remembering small details about your conversations, feet and body angled towards you when you speak, etc. frequently pop up on those lists. Sure, they might signal attraction – but they are also behaviours that come naturally to charismatic people, and help to develop feelings of trust and openness in purely platonic friendships.
There is a related sort of mirroring that I’ve experienced though, and I wonder if it might be more telling than pure body language. There have been times with my LO where I’ve stated something about myself (I’m a huge worrywart, I hate rom-coms, etc.) only for him to mention possessing that same trait or belief a few days later. Sometimes this just seems like him paying attention to what I say – he certainly doesn’t seem the type to love rom-coms – but other times it seems he’s reaching a little, like when I called myself a worrywart and he used the exact same term to describe himself a few days later. It struck me as odd since he always seemed to be a very “go with the flow” guy and not the anxious type at all! I’m wondering if this sort of “mirroring” – someone explicitly mentioning traits or beliefs that they hold after you’ve expressed them yourself – might be a better sign of attraction than simple body language.
Has anyone else experienced this with their LO? I’m sure it’s possible that this is just another tool of charismatic people – building a sense of camaraderie through shared interests – but I wonder if there’s more to it than that. My LO has often gone against the popular opinion in a group setting to align with me, whereas I would expect a people pleaser to agree with the majority.
Lolo, besides picking a similar username, I am in a similar situation, limerant for someone at work, and both unavailable.
Except I have no idea if he is also limerant or just lusting over a hot body.
Sorry to hear this Lolo. I suspect this is someone you work with? I don’t place a ton of emphasis on mirroring or other little cues of attraction because they could be simply cues of close friendship too. I don’t think mirroring is a strong indication of romantic attraction, closeness maybe, but not necessarily romance. Just my opinion but I say this because I disclosed to my LO about 2 weeks back and was told she only felt friendship. She probably checked more than half the boxes on the attraction cues list but according to her, no attraction.
Seems you might be at a crossroads if you want this dance with LO to stop. Sounds as if uncertainty is a problem for you. You should read the blogs on disclosure, when to and when not to (I broke the when not to advice) or start reading about No Contact or Limited Contact to start living purposefully and slowly distancing yourself from LO.
Thanks Speedwagon. Yes, my LO is a coworker. Who on most days, we work very well together. Just on days where I’m not doing so well mentally, I seem to latch onto the tiniest things he does with me and I get curious.
Appreciate your thoughts on mirroring. I was watching a movie recently and there was a line how mirroring is a sign of romantic attraction. So of course my limerent brain latched onto that and wouldn’t let it go. I feel like I can let it go now with the help of your take on it.
I’ve read and reread a lot on this website and other places to try help myself understand where I’m at. I just found myself in a place where I feel like I’m loosing control of the LE when I thought I was getting better.
” A 40 year old might be able to pull off hiding their turmoil better than a 17 year old.”
For me it is quite the opposite. I find in my older years I get attached too easily. Even outside of LO I have found attachment, not even romantically sometimes, with other women. Obviously not as deeply as with LO and even made some good friendships.
But I feel like that is because I didn’t care for the drama of girls when I was a teenager. My hobbies were much more fulfilling and so I never went through that with girls at that age and went right to getting married at 24. So my wife has been my one and only so I didn’t have that “free” period in my life and I’m struggling to NOT go through it now in my 40’s.
My wife says it’s my mid life crisis. And maybe it is. And it’s a good thing LO had no similar feelings and now is gone out of my life. I am though cautious that if and when I can detach and get over LO if it will just happen again if I cannot get myself together and stay on target. I am pretty certain it won’t happen again only because I don’t think I will ever be a 100% over LO. Even if I can break this LE and the intrusive thoughts I am certain her memory will never leave me. And nor would I want it to honestly.
” We’d be ecstatic, but humans being humans, things would eventually get mundane since the usual elements of being in a relationship would set in.”
And there is a lot of truth in this and probably the one thing that is helping me maintain NC. Because while I don’t think I was limerent about my wife when we started talking I can remember the ecstatic feeling of hearing her voice or chatting online (we started out as a long distance relationship) when we first went from a friendship to a romance. You couldn’t have told me then that there would be days she’d piss me off lol. But there are. And I am sure it is the same with me for her.
Anyway, yeah the start of a relationship is going to be different from 10-15 years down the road.
Adam, I enjoyed your post. I was definitely limerent for my SO. I remember sitting at my desk at work and wondering if I would ever be able to focus on anything besides my SO ever again. I couldn’t get him out of my head. I actually love him more today than ever. I guess we’re lucky because he says the same of me.
I think part of the rough patch we are going through and LO are the result of how hastily we got married from the first time we met. We both had issues then; I still felt “stuck” in the religion I was raised (which is still an issue now) and she had self image issues (they have improved but she still does). And that made us both feel lonely in our own worlds so we rushed to get together. Inside of three months of knowing each other we were married.
We’ve had our ups and downs in this marriage but I think overall rushing into it as we did we are starting to see the results of it. And I think the limbo we are in talking about my limerence is because we both don’t know how to say what we need/want to. I know it is for me. Maybe this will just carry on as is. I don’t know. I guess we will see as we go.
Wow, you beat us by two months. We met, were engaged within 3 weeks and married within 5 months. Conservative religions can do that to young adults.
Maybe you are right that rushing into marriage was a bad idea for you guys. I don’t know. You said you were laying on her lap the other day, obviously you two still share some intimacy. Can you build on it?
Miss Lovisa,
Yes I think that there is still something between us. This is the first really big major thing to possibly threaten our marriage and we are both unsure how to move on with this. But yes it’s something still worth working on. We just have to figure out how to do that. I need to give her the time she needs to forgive me and I need to focus on us so that I can try and detach. But the last part of that sentence is the epitome of “that’s easier said than done”.
Song of the Post: “Easier Said Than Done” – The Essex (1963)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxAaNsOETMk
Maybe not the best song for attached limerents but an accurate one.
You have to swap the pronouns but otherwise, you’re there.
“Because I get so timid and shy
Each time that I look him (her) in the eye”
Oh god that is right on the nose. I don’t know if she knew or saw it but it wouldn’t take much for her to twist me all up even with most innocent of comments. But if she didn’t the rest of the office did lol
Was listening to a playlist on the way to work this morning that I haven’t in a while and this song played and I forgot how hard it hit home too. Especially …
“Well you see her when you fall asleep
But never to touch and never to keep
Because you lover her too much
And you dived too deep”
Let Her Go — Passenger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv1EprTdgBE
“I don’t know if she knew or saw it but it wouldn’t take much for her to twist me all up even with most innocent of comments. But if she didn’t the rest of the office did lol”
I love Dilbert!
https://dilbert.com/strip/1993-08-08
Hi Adam, forgive me, but I think I am missing something. You said this is the first big thing to threaten your marriage. I think my limerent brain must be deceiving me because my reaction was, “He didn’t do anything wrong, how could this threaten his marriage?” I want to understand better.
Before LO, your intimacy levels dropped. But that wasn’t a threat to your marriage because you don’t view intimacy as a need and you think you can endure a marriage without intimacy because it’s the right thing to do. Did I get it?
Limerence is a threat to your marriage because it turned your heart away from your wife and towards another woman. It’s a threat because it shows that you would rather be in a different relationship. Did I get it?
I’m really trying to understand. I think actions matter more than thoughts or feelings. I think a person can have a thought or feeling and as long as they don’t act on it, they are fine. You didn’t act on your thoughts or feelings so it’s hard for me to understand why this is a threat to your marriage. It seems more like a personal wrestle you are experiencing. Maybe I am lying to myself to justify my own actions.
“Did I get it?”
Yes. While I do view it as a need it is also something that for the sake of my wife I will learn to live without if that is the way it will be.
But that doesn’t mean that I can turn my heart and/or eyes to other women because of the lack of it. You’ll have to forgive the hard wired religion ingrained in me to understand that I was taught that thoughts of other women besides your spouse are just as much of a sin as actions.
That said, I do know that thoughts aren’t as bad as actions but they can still lead to actions that would be wrong for a married man. That was things so embedded in me that even if I don’t necessarily agree with them wholly they still surface along with the guilt.
As for a threat to our marriage I don’t think my limerence in of itself would be as much of a threat if not coupled with the other issues our marriage was going through long before I met LO. But my so far inability to detach from LO in my limerence is/could be a threat. That it is neurologically involuntary I don’t think is a reason/excuse. Either to me or to my wife. But her I need to ask to clarify, though I get the impression it is the case fo her. But talking about this isn’t easy.
I don’t know Adam. I think your limerence and your lack of intimacy in your marriage are related. Here’s an attempt to explain it…
When I go for long runs, I have to refill my water flasks or my body will stop functioning. I can only lie to myself for so long about this need for water before my body shuts down. Now, let me tell you that I am picky about water. I drink reverse osmosis, filtered water almost always. But, that is not available to me on my long runs and I have been so desperate for a refill that I have filled my flasks in a public restroom sink. Ewe right? Well, needs are needs. Our bodies know what they want/need and if they can’t have the ideal thing, they seek alternatives. You know your wife is the ideal way to get your needs for intimacy met. But, when she wasn’t available, your body searched for other possible ways to meet that need. You found something that kind of worked: limerence. I think repairing the intimacy in your marriage is more of a need than you are willing to admit.
Also, I think there is a difference between recognizing that you have a feeling and actively fantasizing about someone to stimulate those feelings. I don’t think any religion would condemn someone for noticing a feeling. But many religions would recommend against actively stimulating feelings through fantasies. I hope that makes sense. Btw, I am guilty of both.
I know in my marriage it is harder to open up about my secrets because the stakes are so high. I can reveal myself on this website with a bunch of strangers because if you see the real me and reject me, oh well. But what if my husband knows the real me and then he doesn’t want me anymore? Losing him is my biggest fear. So I hold back a little in our relationship and that creates a lack of intimacy then I need intimacy and I seek it from other sources. And if I get rejected by an LO, it will hurt but there will be another LO. I never want to have an SO2.
Wow, that was a helpful writing experience. Thanks for being there.
Miss Lovisa
I get the water analogy. I guess it is the resistance I get on the subject that keeps me from making more effort. It seems easier and less stressful to just ignore it and keep the peace. Or at least what peace there is just leaving it in limbo.
I have left her articles I printed of from here to explain all this to her so she might understand. Whether she has read them or not I don’t know. But as she sees it is an EA. I tried to explain the difference but she seems adamant that this something I did/do by choice and that there is something more romantic about it than there really is.
It’s an uphill battle but I guess I need to acknowledge it and do what I can to repair this damage. It’s frustrating when it feels like I am the only one making any effort to do so. Whenever something is criticized about us, it at least for my wife, always comes back to LO. We end up in arguments because I defend LO because she is a good person and of course that doesn’t go well when my wife is trying to maintain a bad image of LO for whatever reason. I really honestly wish she would take it out on me and not LO.
I can understand in your case Miss Lovisa. But since my wife already thought I was having a PA when she first came to me with the accusation, and then until LO left I had to work with her. So it was kind of inevitable that I tell her about the limerence once, of course, I learned what it was. To me instead of destroying our marriage I was hoping the limerence talk would give her reason to try and fix things since it’s a neurological event. I’ll keep trying. That’s all I can do.
Adam, I have another story to illustrate something. One of my running friends hurt his ankle a long time ago. Ignoring it was easier than physical therapy. He is still running on an ankle that acts up sometimes. Let’s contrast that with what I did when I hurt my ankle. I saw a doctor and did all the exercises the doctor prescribed. My ankle healed in a month and I don’t have to think about it anymore. True that the doctor visit and the exercises and resting were inconvenient and uncomfortable, but now I am past it. My problem is history. My friend’s ankle still bothers him and it has been years.
Does that make sense? It’s like the drinking and limerence are just coping mechanisms you use because you’re figuratively running on a damaged ankle. You could stop running and address the problem any time.
Also, I suspect that your wife knows you feel guilty for your limerence and she may use it against you. It’s an easy way for her to get out of any uncomfortable conversation. I could be wrong.
Feel free to roll your eyes. “There goes Lovisa with another running analogy. Oh brother.”
No you are right. I know I should address it but don’t. Conflict and confrontation are not my strengths. I’d rather keep the peace, even if it is superficial. But you are also right that it will make it worse if I don’t face it now. And you are right about the drinking and limerence. Though drinking has been a life long coping mechanism but yeah especially now.
She might. I know she is definitely upset with me over it. I don’t know why she directs it at LO unless like you said she is just doing that to upset me over my guilt.
I always enjoy your comments and advice Miss Lovisa. It’s always right on the money and what I need to hear. I always look forward to your replies to me.
Lol, thanks for saying that you enjoy conversations with me. I enjoy chatting with you too because you are refreshingly honest, brave and self-aware. That means you are vulnerable and humble. Women love vulnerability in men. It feeds our souls. It’s one of the things I love most about my LO3. He is so good at vulnerability.
Also, confession time… I asked you about how you would feel if you knew your wife used fantasies to keep her libido high. You said it wouldn’t bother you and you hoped she would feel safe telling you. That gave me enough courage to tell my husband that I do that. It turns out that he is fully present when we make love. I was surprised because I thought everyone fantasized about other things during sex. Nope, not my SO. But he doesn’t mind me doing that. In fact he feels closer to me because I confided in him. I was so afraid that telling him would kill our sex life but it actually made it better. Who knew? Thanks, Adam!
I love Dilbert!
https://dilbert.com/strip/1993-08-08
Lmao that was so me with LO. That couldn’t be more accurate. 🙂
If you like that, you might like this:
https://projectendeavour.co/blogs/articles-and-resources/affirmations-by-scott-adams
Be careful though:
“5. Affirmations have not worked every time for me. But the few times they did not work, I must say I wasn’t fully invested in the objective. For example, there are a few cases where if I had achieved an objective it would have caused a lifestyle change that wasn’t entirely positive.”
That’s a variant of “Be careful what you wish for.” LOs can compel you to make some really bad assumptions which lead to really bad decisions.
As the EAP counselor put it to me, “For a smart guy, you made some really bad assumptions.”
Personally, I’m probably 2/3 Dilbert and 1/3 Wally, maybe even more Wally.
” If all of your friends told you that they win money on the slot machines whenever they stick their fingers in their own ears, would you try it? Or would you assume that since there is no obvious reason it could work, it’s not worth the effort?”
This really got to me. And I feel it was a direct statement to me as in, you are holding yourself back from getting through this limerence and detaching from LO. Because you don’t want to.
Because what’s on the other end of the rainbow if I do get over her? Am I going to be happy? Or more than likely even if I “get on” with my life I will still miss her and want her back in my life just like I do now. So why try? I am perpetuating my own failure to do so by not believing that is possible to get past this because subconsciously I don’t want to get over LO?
Hmmm. Thanks for the link L.E. This gives me even more to think about and try to apply to my benefit.
Thank you Miss Lovsia. It’s nice to know that and quash the fear I am being annoying or clingy lol
I’m glad to hear that. It took me a long time with my wife. Ten years into our marriage before I had to courage to confess things like that to her about our sex life. And very surprised that she reacted much like it seems your husband did; with love in his heart and not shame or jealousy. You two seem to have a very good bond together and that’s wonderful. Now maybe if something is in his heart that he is afraid to tell you he will be more comfortable to tell you after this.
Well I am very obviously limerant, and if my LO knew about limerance, he would recognize me right away.
All the oversharing, wanting to tell him everything I do all the time. Maybe he does know.