Limerence is an altered mental state. That means its origin lies in our brains, and in the neurochemistry that regulates our perceptions and emotions. Although direct research on limerence is very limited, we know a lot about the neuroscience of emotions and addiction, which offers a very good grounding for understanding the neuroscience of person addiction.
Understanding limerence as a neuroscientific phenomenon begins with trying to connect the key features of limerence to the neural systems that are likely to be involved.
Limerence feels remarkable. It is euphoric at first: it is exhilarating, it is energising, and it causes dramatic mood swings – from wild elation to panicked devastation. Once you’re in deep, your limerent object is the most powerful stimulus in your environment. Everything about them takes on exaggerated significance, everything in the world is processed in relation to them. They occupy the centre of your attention, your thoughts and your dreams. The euphoria of being with them can feel blissful, as though you have found a soulmate who gifts you a transcendent sense of fulfilment just by existing. Heady stuff.
As limerence progresses, this mental state begins to shift into something darker, transitioning to intrusive thoughts you can’t control, difficulty in regulating your mood, and a woeful inability to concentrate on other things. Now your mental state is dominated by craving, compulsive urges to be with them (or at least ruminate about them), and emotional pain when you are forced to withdraw.
Well, that there is quite a list of experiences to explain with neuroscience, so we’d better try and organise things a bit. Perhaps the best way is to follow the trajectory of a typical limerence experience and see if we can figure out what’s going on in our brains at each stage.
Arousal
LOs are stimulating, to put it mildly.
When getting to know a new LO, limerents soon find themselves in a state of overarousal. Their heart beats faster, they get sweaty palmed, their pupils dilate, they are highly attentive and focused, and generally in a state best described as hyper. This is physiological arousal, which usually includes sexual arousal, but is a more profound and complete whole-body response characterised by excitement, nervous energy, and thrills.
The key neurochemistry at this stage is focused around noradrenaline signalling. In both the brain and the autonomic nervous system, noradrenaline triggers arousal and excitement and readiness for action. It can be pretty exhilarating.
Arousal also contributes to the sense of importance that LO takes on. You know the emotional stakes are high when the prospect of meeting LO, seeing the objects they own, or being in the places associated with them, gives you the jitters. Your body is winding you up into a heightened state of awareness because this really matters.
The fact that overarousal is often counterproductive to our attempts to impress them is just one of nature’s little jokes.
Reward
The next major neural system that contributes to limerence is reward. Having a good interaction with LO isn’t like the pleasure of having a tasty cake or winning a prize, it’s an order of magnitude greater. Limerent reward is euphoric.
Reward is driven by dopamine. This neural system evolved to allow us to discriminate between the good and bad things in the environment, and remember the good things so that we will seek them out again. But it’s complex.
Pleasure itself can be detached from the desire for pleasure – wanting something is distinct from liking it. The actual sensation of euphoria has proven hard to pin down, scientifically, but seems to be triggered by endorphins and endocannabinoids. Dopamine regulates these “bliss” signals, but its primary role is in recognising and seeking rewards.
Nevertheless, the “dopamine high” is a popular concept and a useful description of what it’s like when you get the bliss tingles from making LO laugh, or having them hug you, or seek your help, or tell you how much you mean to them.
They are intoxicating.
Bonding
The third major process that we need to understand is bonding. This is the more chilled sense of peace, comfort, and “rightness” that we can often feel in the presence of an LO that we have emotionally connected with.
That sense of contentedness and affection is hormonal. Specifically, oxytocin and vasopressin regulate the bonding process that leads, ultimately, to love. It can be an important factor in limerence for many people who rate emotional nourishment above thrills of arousal, when it comes to cementing an infatuation.
Now, I’m going to have a short interlude here to be a pedant, because I can’t help myself. It’s a burden I bear.
This is too neat and tidy for real biology, which is a mess of complications. In fact, all these neural systems feed each other. Bonding is rewarding. Euphoria heightens arousal. They all alter each other in an interplay of mutual reinforcement, and all the neurochemicals I’ve mentioned play many other roles in the brain too.
OK. Got the ridiculous need for accuracy out of my system. Back to the story.
Compulsion
The last piece of the puzzle when it comes to the neurochemistry of limerence is the critical transition into person addiction. The basis of this shift lies in the point I made earlier about the difference between wanting and liking. Dopamine is initially a signal for recognising reward (by giving a bliss hit), but then transitions into being a drive to seek reward.
Motivated behaviour begins with the desire for reward. Dopamine is now acting as a prompt to get you to take action and go and seek out some nice reward. And what is the greatest source of reward in your environment – you know, the one that has been amplified into a mania by hyperactive euphoria, arousal and bonding?
LO.
There’s no way your dopamine circuits are unlearning that lesson in a hurry, so you end up encumbered with a compulsive drive to seek LO that won’t switch off. Nothing satisfies the urge, except the fleeting relief of rumination about them, or contact with them. Even worse, the whole world is full of reminders of them, and every time they pop into your mind, your dopamine circuits light up and give you a prod to go and seek some of that LO goodness that you used to find so electrifying.
Carried along by the emotional torrent of euphoria, exhilaration and connectedness, we unwittingly train ourselves into a compulsive mental state of perpetual motivation to seek LO. And a compulsive urge that is painful to resist is a pretty good working definition of a behavioural addiction.
From the perspective of neuroscience, limerence can be understood. There really are some people who activate our neural circuits in just the right way to send us into a reward-reinforcement cycle that is easy to slip into but fearsome to escape.
Turns out, brains can be dumb.
I’m glad this topic came up, as I would love to hear more from other people about the physiological aspects of limerence they’ve experienced over the course of their lifetimes, particularly those linked to arousal. When I was a teenager, around potential LOs, there was definitely that racing heart thing. “Is she standing next to me in line?” “Did she say hi to me today?” “Oh gosh, should I go to the school nurse? I’m having a heart attack.”
I don’t recall sweating, but I have had friends (usually male) complain of sweating excessively. Also, of being “able to smell themselves”, which I think is a result of sweating. I thought nothing of these remarks at the time other than the fact boys are disgusting in general, and some people have a sick sense of humour, etc. Didn’t really link the phenomena to possible arousal.
Panic attacks around potential LOs? Check. Wanted to physically flee the room they were in and not know why – they weren’t even interacting with me at the time!
Nerves/butterflies in stomach/mind gone blank when accidentally encountering LO or potential LOs. Check. (More fight or flight?)
Insomnia and oversleeping? Check. (Oversleeping because having a dream about LO is pleasurable in its own right and I was holding out for another dream). Insomnia is more about withdrawal I think, or rumination. (Stay awake to obsess over why “relationship” is apparently not working).
Overeating/undereating? Check. May be about wanting to look attractive for LO. But may also be an attempt to control mood swings induced by limerence. “LO doesn’t love me anymore. Cool. Time to eat cake! Oh, she does love me? Shouldn’t have eaten that cake. I look like a baby elephant in these pants.”
Intriguingly, around my main LO, I can’t recall ever having a racing heart, although I had this symptoms around a few potential LOs. Also, can’t recall sweaty palms and dilated pupils. Though maybe I wasn’t paying enough attention to the obvious? Plenty of people have acted “hyper” around me over the years and I honestly chalked it up to their weird personalities and not to limerence or arousal. Never even occurred to me they might like me…
I think my main LE was very, very cerebral for me – it all played out inside my head and there were very few overt physical symptoms, though I’ve had strong symptoms for other people. Was I overconfident that LO liked me back? Maybe.
Did get sick feeling in my tummy when calling her and waiting for her to pick up. Always the fear she wouldn’t pick up and that eventually became a self-fulfilling prophecy. She was slowly pulling away from me. Our phone calls grew shorter and shorter. I always knew the end was coming. I wanted to be the first to let go. I wanted to reject her before she rejected me – hey, I’ve got my pride to protect! Haha! Then obsession hit and I was trapped in an invisible labyrinth.
Sammy- I was really glad to see this one too. It’s like going to the doctor and hearing a list of symptoms and explanations that perfectly diagnoses the problem ; it’s a relief to know that limerence is a something.
I can get tongue tied sometimes, but that’s not as typical for me. More often, when I’m in that heightened state I will cover my mouth with my hand and fidgit with my feet. But the hyper-awareness fits me to a T. I can actually feel the potential or actual glimmer as an electric current that’s outgoing or incoming. When I was younger I would actually feel myself getting sparkly, and I thought I could turn it on and off. I would describe it as different than flirting. I can’t remember exactly how DrL described it, but it felt like being on a different wavelength somehow. At this point in my life I do think I could recognize it and turn it off, as it were. It’s definitely lost its appeal.
For me, the most difficult thing to deal with, and the slowest to leave, are the intrusive thoughts. They are like the stock information scrolling under the main plot of my life all the time. Thankfully, they are much less distracting now, but I’d really love for them to be gone altogether. My past LE’s are powerless now; I’m looking forward to the relief of this one being gone too.
I think the magic formula may be time plus distance plus intentional living…. with awareness and caution moving forward.
@Jane. “But the hyper-awareness fits me to a T. I can actually feel the potential or actual glimmer as an electric current that’s outgoing or incoming. When I was younger I would actually feel myself getting sparkly, and I thought I could turn it on and off. I would describe it as different than flirting. I can’t remember exactly how DrL described it, but it felt like being on a different wavelength somehow.”
Yup, I can definitely relate to this description. You’re always vaguely conscious of where they are in the room relative to you, even if not looking at them. You feel an increase of nervous energy, etc. I think most of my feelings are in my belly at times. I become very, very still, like I’m afraid one false move will scare LO away. I become clumsy. Once or twice I have almost fallen over in presence of LOs/potential LOs. Onlookers must think I’m a hopeless idiot! Haha!
I know what you mean about electricity. At first I thought, “Oh, that’s what sexual tension feels like.
When characters joke about sexual tension on TV, this must be what they mean.” But the “tension” didn’t go away and I realised something else was up – LO had somehow invaded my mind like a parasite and wouldn’t get out. I didn’t need them around to feel weird. I felt weird all the time!
I realise, in high school, I might have spent three years trying to get some girl’s attention without even realising that was what I was doing and treasuring her (frequently bland/possibly bored) responses. This limerence business is awful! Definitely the opposite of purposeful living. But fantasy has always had huge appeal to me. Maybe it all started when I was a child and trying to “block out” the voice of my controlling mother…
It’s funny because up until now I never thought the symptoms of a limerent experience were out of the ordinary. It was only after having I guess you would call it a “severe reaction” to my latest LO did I begin to question my behavior.
First in anticipating seeing him in any situation or any event I became so nervous I would started shaking, my heart would started racing, and I would become totally flushed. Fortunately most of the time I was alone and able to bring myself under control before venturing out into public. Second I could not sleep – on average I was getting maybe 3 to 4 hours a night. Third he occupied my thoughts constantly, and I was always planning ways to possibly run into him. Fourth I lost 30 lbs with hardly any effort at all. I guess that is a good symptom.
In many ways I acted like a true addict, if I couldn’t see him and I needed a fix daydreaming would suffice. About 4 months in daydreaming wasn’t enough, boy did I suffer. 9 months, 5 of which have been NC, I think I have recovered though if I see him again who knows what will happen. In retrospect I have to laugh because it was all so crazy. I can honestly say I’m glad it’s over, and I have my life back.
Thanks for sharing, lifelonglimerent. As Jane has already pointed out, obvious symptoms can be a relief because they “prove” limerence is a real thing (biology) and not just something we cook up in our imaginations.
Yes, I’ve noticed dramatic weight loss in one or two friends, and also the flushing, etc. When I have a friend with limerent symptoms, I always try to give that friend extra consideration. I doubt any of these friends are limerent for me in particular (thank God!). However, I still want to put them at their ease. I feel protective towards them – they just seem so shaky and vulnerable! (If they don’t faint from nerves, they’ll faint from hunger).
I’d hazard a guess that non-limerents have no idea how debilitating these symptoms are in social situations such as parties. Limerence impairs normal functioning to such an extent sometimes that I think it should be classed as a temporary disability. Loss of appetite and insomnia can both go on for years and people don’t automatically identify the root cause.
Sammy,
I don’t know if you’ve experienced this, but it took me MONTHS of seeing my LO at work and talking with him almost every day to really get a good look at him. Sounds crazy, but he was this white blur of hotness before that. And when I really did see him, I said to myself: Is that what he looks like? I mean, he looked fine, but I had imagined him as James Dean! Friends have asked me what attracted me to him if it wasn’t his appearance, but what attracts me to an LO has very little to do with appearance. (I think initial attraction for most people is largely tied in to the other person’s appearance, so they didn’t get it.)
@Marcia. That is very interesting. I’ve certainly felt “dazzled” around potential LOs and LOs – some were good-looking and others just ordinary-looking. Initially, I thought the “dazzled” feeling must be because they’re gorgeous. But no, in hindsight, I think the “dazzle” effect comes from emotions in our limbic systems and chemicals flooding our brains.
“A white blur of hotness” is a great way to describe it. This people become (to us) much more than the sum total of their body parts. The attractiveness goes way beyond looks. Looking at them is like looking at the sun – it’s something you do at your own risk! Haha!
What initially attracts me to LOs? Well, it varies person to person. One paid me a really nice compliment (she said she liked a short story I’d written) and things spiralled out of control from there (I started dreaming about her all the time). Another was a really good listener and had a sympathetic look in her eyes when I talked to her. It was the expression in her eyes that drew me in, not the beauty of the eyes and/or face. I ended up believing in my head she was beautiful, even though she told me outright other guys (and girls) didn’t find her attractive.
For me, for limerence to happen, an exchange with some emotional content has to take place. Good looks alone will result in crushes (short-lived infatuations) but good looks don’t constitute a “glimmer” in themselves. The good-looking human must act slightly interested.
Sammy,
“Looking at them is like looking at the sun – it’s something you do at your own risk!”
Yes, exactly. My best friend repeatedly asked me what about my LO had attracted me. I couldn’t answer her. I just wanted to be around him because, well, it felt so good. Other people seem to date several people until they find someone they like, and feelings take a while to grow. Whereas a limerent has zeroed in on the LO and everyone else pales in comparison.
“Good looks alone will result in crushes (short-lived infatuations) but good looks don’t constitute a “glimmer” in themselves. ”
Yes, I had some lightweight crushes on other people during my last LE but they didn’t hang in my mind they like the LO. Actually, I started spending time with other men during the LE to get my mind off of the LO, was not available. I know that’s not fair to the other men, but the situations were all very casual.
@Marcia. You’ve raised many good points here that highlight the difference in the way limerents and non-limerents think.
Funny story: I had an English teacher in grade nine when we were studying Shakespeare and she cracked up laughing over Romeo’s description of Juliet’s looks. She thought Romeo’s gazing-up-at-balcony speech/comparing Juliet to the moon was over-the-top, ridiculous, etc. I guess Mrs J never experienced limerence!!
Also had a music teacher at school who thought Tchaikovsky’s music for Romeo and Juliet over-the-top, sickly sweet, etc. I guess she too was non-limerent. Although she was a strange lady to begin with. She claimed she “disliked all boys except her husband”!
I don’t think non-limerents will ever understand the emotional charge generated by a LE. This man you like at work – you could interview a thousand women and they might all tell you he’s “nothing special”. But your limerent brain has decided that he’s a unicorn (a magical being) even though your rational brain knows unicorns don’t exist.
Incidentally, I dated quite a bit in my twenties and was very offended by the “dating lots of people at once” practice, which is incredibly common. I thought it indicated the dater involved wasn’t serious about any of the prospects. However, that may have been my limerent brain talking. I see the logic of it now I’m older.
Sammy,
“Funny story: I had an English teacher in grade nine when we were studying Shakespeare and she cracked up laughing over Romeo’s description of Juliet’s looks.”
I avoid people like your teacher. They’re too practical, and since 90% of life is practicality, I don’t think we need more! Or maybe it was a defense mechanism on her part — deep down she knew she’d never inspired such passion in someone! HA
“This man you like at work …”
I don’t work there anymore. I had to get away from him. Well him and the job. Both were dead-ends, but I can tell you NC does not work. I will never see him or talk to him again, but I won’t lie: I would pay money to hear from him.
“Incidentally, I dated quite a bit in my twenties and was very offended by the “dating lots of people at once” practice … I see the logic of it now I’m older.”
I also see the logic of it as I’ve gotten older. I’m not talking about sleeping with multiple people. Just dating. You go on one first date here, another first date with someone else, a second date with a third guy, and then if you make it to dates 3 or 4 with someone (presumably someone you really like), you narrow it down to one person. I think it is good practice. In theory, it is supposed to prevent someone from getting fixated on one person, which us limerents are known to do.
@Jane. In her book, Dorothy Tennov talks about how limerents kind of get stuck on the words of LO, as if LO’s words (and behaviour) are open to permanent review. “What did he/she mean by that, etc?” I guess it’s all part of rumination. I wonder have you experienced something like this? For example, has your LO said a particular sentence and you keep going over that sentence in your mind and find ten different meanings for that one sentence? Have you almost had arguments with LO in your head over something LO said?
Other limerents, please feel free to chime in. Anyone else had the “permanent review” thing happen?
Oh, absolutely!! The thing about an EA is that it’s ALL words. And ours was full of uncountable words. But I do have a few that have extra sticking power. I had a professor once who said that we should never say that “it’s only words” because words are so incredibly powerful- they have the ability to shape whole governments and cultures: certainly emotions and beliefs. I am so careful about rumination. I read (here? somewhere else?) that your brain doesn’t know the difference between eating chocolate and thinking about eating chocolate.. and that seems to be true for me in the rumination. Like Jaideux, there are some things that my LO said that hit that “I know that’s true, and I’m so happy that you can see it” button in me. There are some things in me that I felt hadn’t been seen in a long, long time, and that he saw them felt like a confirmation and a relief. But that was the great danger for me. It was the sticky part. What’s the quote- never put the key to your happiness in someone else’s pocket? That’s what I was doing. And the things that I was doing to get the acknowledgement and feelings of being seen and understood, the deception and emotional theft, corroded the things I was getting anyway. These days I am trying to find that sense of homeness from myself and my beliefs. Ironically, it has freed my SO and I up to offer that to each other (as it’s now not a demand but a natural part of our relationship).
In my relationship with this LO, we never had anything negative said between us. One time we had an argument, but it wasn’t anything that went too deep. In my other LE’s in my life, I was never close enough to them to have anything hurtful said- it was all fantasy in my head, and in that fantasy there was never anything rude said. Ha.
I kind of went off on a tangent, Sammy, and didn’t fully answer your question. The one thing I do tend to go over in my head again and again is the closing conversation that I know we will never have. I think about writing a goodbye letter that I would destroy, but it seems pointless, and if the circumstance came up that would allow us to have the conversation ever came up, it would mean so many other things had gone wrong that I’m sure it would be the bottom of the list for me. I can get stuck in wanting him to fully understand everything from my point of view, just the closure that I believe is an illusion but seems so amazing if it could happen. That’s the loop for me, and I”m hopeful it will go away in time.
@Jane. Oh yes. The closing conversation (that never happens)! Even when writing completely ordinary letters to my LO, I did a ridiculous number of drafts – as if one spelling mistake or grammar error was going to make her think less of me or “alter the course of our shared destiny”. Madness!
And I understand how emotional affairs come about, though I never consciously thought of mine in those terms, only as some kind of glorified friendship. The desire to be understood is soooo strong and the feeling that “only this person truly gets me, no one else”.
“Never put the key to your happiness in someone else’s pocket.”
Jane, that quote is so cool – I’ll have to remember that one.
My LO didn’t say mean things exactly. But she had no problems pointing out when my behaviour or taste in books, music, etc, was immature compared to her standards or the standards of her group of friends. And she was right – I was immature for my age and she was very grown-up for her age (Perhaps wrongly, I assumed we were the same level of maturity). I think the 50/50 mix of compliments and criticisms ultimately played into the uncertainty. I kept a tally of positive and negative remarks in my head.
But your professor is right – words can certainly haunt us for years after they’re uttered and even affect the choices we make in life.
OMG, I’ve done so much reviewing, I’ve made myself ill, although I’m finally beginning to get better. Not only do some conversations still replay unbidden in my head just about every day–especially our very last in-person misunderstanding a year ago–I actually have a .pdf file with ALL OUR TEXTS. Over 10,000 exchanges. Talk about permanent review. Every once in a while I’ll go back and read a particular section and think, “Oh, THAT’s what she meant!” realizing I had it so wrong at the time. It’s easy to see now that I often saw what I wanted to see. And that is giving me a clearer head about it all. I hope someday I’ll go in to view that file and…forget the password and…I’ll be sad. But only a little and not for long.
@Landry
There is a “Young Adult” book called ‘Getting over Garrett Delaney’ which is surprisingly enjoyable. Your pdf file reminds me of the protagonists project and it’s eventuality. It’s a good light read and definitely speaks to limerence with a happy ending.
Thank you! I’ll check that out. The YA genre certainly speaks to my limerent self!
@Sammy,
Yep, guilty. I still remember the most meaningful complements and appreciative observations former LO’s gave, and also rehearse what clever and nonchalant thing I will say shall our paths cross again, etc. I have to force myself to stop it because these flights of fancy can seem SO REAL and immediate that I find my heartbeat accelerating as I ponder them.
I think these things are imbedded in my psyche for life, and since they made me so happy at the time, I see no reason to discount their complementary content, they are memories that belong to me and me alone and as long as I don’t live exclusively in this room full of treasured memories, I may as well let them be.
@Jaidexu. Your attitude to the situation sounds really healthy – you’re taking the positive and still keeping things in perspective.
One of my LOs said some lovely things about me, but also made some harsh-but-true criticisms. She was like one of those stern schoolteachers, who push their best students harder because they know said students can do better. If you’re one of those bright but lazy students, though, it’s like: “Why is Miss picking on me again? I didn’t do nothin’!”
Honestly, if my LO didn’t make those criticisms, I wouldn’t have listened to them and learnt from them. So maybe I should thank my LO for that – she made me a better person by being critical. Though, of course, I hated her at the time and felt deeply humiliated. Remembering the things she said about me wasn’t always an undiluted pleasure, since she had a habit of pointing out my flaws in a very no-nonsense fashion! Haha!
Sorry. That should be “Jaideux”. Clumsy typing!
@Sammy
I kind of like ‘Jaidexu.’
It sounds so sci-fi!
THIS!! I’ve been NC for a couple months now and was really making strides in the ‘recovery’ process, then BOOM a week of what I’ll call limerent attacks.
The good part is that I know what the trigger was. I saw LO by chance when dropping SO off at work. LO was walking into the building, our eyes met and he waved at me. (I used to work there too, long story.)
Cue the familiar rush of euphoric electricity, followed by a visit from our old buddy rumination. I’d hoped it would be easier, but my limerent brain keeps screaming, “MORE! Another hit, just one more *grins evilly*”
So, that’s where I’m at. Building my resolve back up to start NC again. Wish me luck!
@DoubleLime. Well, at least you can be sure it’s limerence you’re dealing with, as your biology here is reacting in a typical limerent fashion. I.e. you receive something from LO that could be interpreted as positive reciprocation (eye contact, a wave) and the relevant circuits in your brain flood with ecstasy.
A non-limerent person would see the wave, interpret it as mere friendliness, maybe feel happy that an old chum acknowledged them, and go about their business without a second thought. However, there would be no feelings of euphoria involved and hence no incentive for rumination afterwards.
I know you’re in an unfortunate situation now, but this is an almost perfect illustration of something I’m sure only happens to limerent people. We get “high” off of other people (LOs and potential LOs), as weird as that sounds. It’s great you’re self-aware because now you can observe your own thoughts and emotional reactions and know what those reactions mean in biochemical terms.
Hey Sammy, thanks for the reply! Yes, being able to recognize the limerence for what it is and find out that it’s an actual thing that other people deal with too is what makes me so glad to have found this blog.
I just read DRL’s article, and it makes me sad to think that all these wonderful (and awful) reactions are probably taking place without the realisation of most LOs. That is to say, all the big emotions, desperate yearning, etc, take place inside the limerent and may not be visible on the surface. One of my LOs liked me because I impressed her with my “quiet strength”. (Little did she know! Hahaha!)
Some really sensitive LOs might pick up on poorly-disguised biological reactions, but they’re usually the ones who say “I can’t put my finger on it, or explain why, but so-and-so (the limerent person) makes me feel uncomfortable”.
Re-read the article, I should say. 🙂
Hi, very very interesting. At least I know understand what’s happening in my brain, and I am convicted that it’s worth resisting (even though right now, 10.pm, I am still wondering if I should try to reach my LO or not)
One question please: I heard somewhere than increasing the level of serotonine can help to regulate the dopamine, is that true please?
On a side note, thank you so much for our help. I have been through lots of different painfull states of mind in my life, but, appart of losing somebody close, I have not experienced anything as tough as limerence, IMO.
Hi Johnny,
Good question about serotonin. To be honest, I’ve avoided talking much about it, because the roles of serotonin in the brain are not easy to interpret. It’s definitely central to mood regulation, and so if low mood is a trigger for limerence then increasing serotonin could be useful. But, serotonin is also involved in reward and motivation, and so it isn’t simply the opposite of dopamine. There’s also some evidence that serotonin regulates impulsivity, but again, it’s confusing. Impulsiveness is associated with increased serotonin levels, but inhibition of serotonin release increases impulsive behaviour.
SSRIs stablise mood, and so could help to mitigate limerent emotional instability, but SSRIs (despite their name) do a lot more than simply elevating serotonin so it’s hard to pin down how they might affect any individual (and you should obviously not mess around with antidepressants without medical supervision).
In summary, serotonin function is maddeningly complex.
Hi Doc,
Thanks for the clarification.
To be honest, I haven’t considered taking SSRIs or any other medication. I am just trying to implement some food that are supposed to boost the serotonin level in my everyday diet , such as: Pineapples, eggs, wallnuts, banana, etc… Don’t know if that’s reliable, but sometimes i am experiencing some free moments , during which I am able to care less about my LO and to think about something else (nearly a back to normal), but that’s only for a couple of hours, after which I am feelling myself getting back down into the limbos of limerence. If that’s not due to the potential extra serotonin supplied by my food, what is it due to, in your opinion?
Cheers,
Johnny
@Johnny. I don’t know about the link between dopamine and serotonin, but I do have something to say about serotonin. I think, when people are diagnosed with depression, or are suspected of having depression (e.g. following a suicide attempt) and then seek medical treatment, some doctors think such depression is caused by low serotonin levels in the brain and so they prescribe anti-depressants (SSRIs?). Antidepressants of this type must help the brain hang onto its natural serotonin and reuse it or something. (I’m not sure of the exact science).
I experienced what certainly seemed like depression when I was involuntarily withdrawing from LO. Depression was one of the symptoms, but it certainly wasn’t the only symptom. Looking back, I think I was alternating between depression and mania. My moods were very unstable to say the least. A lot of the time I was hyper and then I was depressed and then I was hyper again. There was very little consistency. Sounds like bipolar, though I wasn’t diagnosed as that.
Antidepressants did “blunt” my mood and energy and make me feel flat. So, in other words, if someone is experiencing the yucky part of limerence and is prescribed antidepressants at the same time for whatever reason, the antidepressants (depending on type and dose) might give one temporary relief from painful limerent feelings, but of course won’t deal with the root problem.
That is to say, you’ll still have to deal with the emotional triggers of limerence after coming off antidepressants. But antidepressants might buy you some time, and give you some emotional distance from LO. Also, interacting with professionals in the health system can be beneficial. You might get sent to a psychologist, etc, and be given the chance to discuss various personal issues.
With SSRI antidepressants, you sort of temporarily stop feeling your emotions. At least that how it worked for me. But feeling “wiped out” all the time is no fun either. And some people gain a lot of weight on antidepressants. There’s a trade-off to everything I guess. Also, antidepressants won’t stop you falling hard for another LO later in life, or confronting the reality of person addiction. If you want to recover from limerence for good, you have to deal with the emotional triggers.
I’m sure there are a lot of healthy, potassium-rich foods with supposedly calming effects that people can eat to improve their diet (and hopefully mood). Bananas, sweet potatoes, turkey, etc, are all supposed to be great. Diet alone won’t solve the limerence problem. However, fitness and healthy eating can be a worthwhile distraction from obsession (and a great start to leading a purposeful life).
I should add I’m Australian, so am lucky to live in a country with a reasonably good (and free) health care system. Though I did have to pay full price for my meds, because I had kind of fallen through the cracks in the system at that point. (Not working and not receiving any government payment. Limerence basically meant that I failed out of my university course. I couldn’t concentrate on study anymore. A very dark chapter in my life – glad it’s all over now). 🙂
Just commenting here because I’m having quite an interesting experience this Saturday. Over lockdown my occasional smoking has become a daily habit (for months now) and I’ve decided I want to quit. I haven’t smoked for 10 days… I’m using nicotine patches.
It’s been going well. Until today. I’m really late on some paid work, and super anxious about it. So I’ve been pulling late nights and I’m giving my weekend over to completing it. But finding it really stressful.
…and now suddenly I want to smoke. Not exactly the first time in this past week. But previously, it crossed my mind and I batted it away, feeling secure with my patch dripping nicotine into me. But this morning the thoughts have become something I recognise- intrusive. They interrupt my flow, demand attention, there’s this internal bickering, bargaining… ‘buy a packet, but smoke 1… you know you can!’ Versus ‘…yeah but I know I won’t!). It’s distracting- which of course is what I guess is the point.
The similarity between this and some aspects of my experience of limerence is really clear. Of course there is no romantic pain, nor the sadness of rejection (LO ghosted and is gone) but the irrational craving that jumps at you out of nowhere is so familiar… it made me smile.
I didn’t realise I was an addict of any kind for years… but the similarity of the experience of spontaneously and intrusively craving a cigarette (for what? I’m supplying myself nicotine?) Feels so like the spontaneous intrusive craving for an LOs attention… usually resulting in a sad little unanswered text.
But I’m damn certain that if I can go this many weeks without caving in to my limerence I’m sure as all hell NOT giving into my brain on cigarettes either.
Blimmin’brains aye?
I have been having limerence for same sex LO all these while since my teenager years. And I just came to terms with it after finding out that there is a term for this!! I was actually amused at how I always get crushes on them.
However as often as Those feelings came by, they eventually fades away.
Despite having multiple limerence for the same sex, I have only dated men and eventually married my current SO; whom I love and cherish a lot. I thought after getting married my limerence would stop, however it didn’t.
I’m currently in limerence with my latest LO of 1+ month. My life has went downhill ever since it started. Life felt bored and joyless without the LO. I no longer look forward to things/activities that i usually enjoy with my SO / friends unless LO is involved. I don’t even want to make plans anymore with everyone else as it doesn’t sparks joy anymore. This scares me a lot and make me question my life and the purpose of life.
Since the limerence started, every single awake moment will be filled with my LO. The good thing is that LO and I are friends. We are sort of new friends who has just got closer recently having same interest. Since we are same sex I suppose there is nothing more than friendship between us and I know it will eventually end one fine day. I will no longer feel the same way towards her, i don’t see a future with her either.
But she has been giving me this mixed signal (which might be biased, I know). She would always text me and ask me about my day or my meals if I didn’t reply her. There were times whereby I would purposely not want to reply her messages, but she would always initiate another conversation and kept it going. She would find out more about me, listen to the songs I like. And of course I will do the same and not withdraw from her.
I don’t know if she does that to every other person too or am i the exception?
But on the flip side, due to my extreme feelings/addiction, she drives me crazy with her hot & cold attitude too. But I guess that’s because I can’t have her 100% to myself, even as a friend it is not possible.
Most of my LE episodes doesn’t last very long so I can be rather confident that eventually; we would still be friend?
But i just can’t help but to want to know if she does feel the same way towards me at this current moment, even the slightest feeling will make my life ten fold better.
I have imagined scenarios in which I would reveal how I feel towards her and see if she reciprocate. Maybe we would go and have some drinks and things will be clearer/better when you’re under influence of alcohol. Maybe, just maybe.
When we are being caught in our own intensity of our feeling, we may forget that others may not feel the same way, at all. And knowing this hurts me a lot, as I’m just helpless against my illogical feeling.
And then just dump the whole thing in a big bucket of kink for shits & giggles. Why just bond, when you can trauma bond?
I am an idiot.
“LOs are stimulating, to put it mildly.
When getting to know a new LO, limerents soon find themselves in a state of overarousal. Their heart beats faster, they get sweaty palmed, their pupils dilate, they are highly attentive and focused, and generally in a state best described as hyper. This is physiological arousal, which usually includes sexual arousal, but is a more profound and complete whole-body response characterised by excitement, nervous energy, and thrills.
…
Nevertheless, the “dopamine high” is a popular concept and a useful description of what it’s like when you get the bliss tingles from making LO laugh, or having them hug you, or seek your help, or tell you how much you mean to them.
They are intoxicating.
…
From the perspective of neuroscience, limerence can be understood. There really are some people who activate our neural circuits in just the right way to send us into a reward-reinforcement cycle that is easy to slip into but fearsome to escape.”
Some of these observations makes me think how disturbing it must be to be someone’s LO, even if one is single and ready to mingle…
Let’s say, for the sake of argument, I’m someone’s LO. Let’s say I consider myself a very boring person in general, the kind of person who doesn’t seek out praise or attention, and can’t imagine anyone being physiologically aroused by me. Then, boom, one day someone comes along and they are sent into a strange state of whole-body arousal by me. What am I, as “Mr Boring Person”, supposed to make of this person’s unusual response to my presence? I mean, no one else has ever found me intoxicating before, and I’m not sure if I can live up to the hype…😉
I think, as a teenager, I might have been the LO of a couple of my classmates, both male and female. I’m not really sure what they saw in me. I think I was friendly and polite, but also very reserved and mysterious aka an introvert. For example, I’d much rather do research in the library than hang out with classmates during lunch hour. I don’t think my looks were anything to write home about at the time. My face didn’t have “character” yet. I like the way I look now much better.
The boys who liked me – I found them needy and possessive and secretly wished they’d go away. One got jealous even when I had casual conversations with other guys I knew. As for the girl who really, really liked me – I couldn’t understand why she picked me, because she was hot and could have had a guy much higher up in the social pecking order. I felt she should date a guy equal to her in social status, and not settle for a nobody. Also, she would never ever come out and say she liked me, or liked me more than the others – I was supposed to read her mind. 😉
I saw myself as a nobody in high school, yet my limerent admirers didn’t see me as a nobody. For that reason alone, I don’t think I could believe their love was genuine, or directed at a logical target.
I think I had very set ideas about status, and that everyone should be pairing off with someone of equivalent status, and limerence was interfering with this neat little process. I was like some ill-humoured king who wanted members of the royal court to marry partners of the same social class and rank. Princesses shouldn’t be flirting with servant boys, etc. Totally inappropriate! 😛
To this day, I struggle to believe anyone could develop lovesickness for me. Because what could such lovesickness possibly be based on? Obviously, the correct answer is such lovesickness would be based on the other person’s biology and some mixed signals of mine which an optimist could construe as “hidden passion”. 😛
Apparently, some humans can be completely blind to signs of overarousal in others, and I’m one of those humans. If I don’t want to see something, I just block it out, and get on with the rest of my day. I wonder if that’s irresponsible now?
My brain registers limerent admirers in my circle as “super-sweet but weirdly insecure friends”. “Friends” being the operative word. Physical attraction and romantic love don’t really enter my mind as possible explanations for their confusing behaviour. 😛
Well I can honestly say, since discovering this website and reading everyones comments, I feel a million times better. I’m not taking pleasure in hearing about others misery, far from it! I mean, I thought I was the only one going through this weird state of obsession. I must say its brought me some comfort, i hope the same for others too.
Its also left me wondering if my L.O is perhaps going through these feels towards me as well (but is slightly better at hiding it) Has anyone else thought this too?
This is the most extraordinary and bizzare experience ive had in terms of my love-life, I have had crushes before, but this is overwhelming, I thought I’d become a completely different person, I dont recognise myself. The easiest way to describe how im behaving is self-sabotage. Nothing else matters other than hearing from my L.O, the opportunity to be alone with them, either over a WhatsApp call or in person has become my main objective in life. I have also lost the ability to play it cool with L.O also, I can go for days (painful and desperate as said days are) without speaking to them, but the moment we do, I unravel and try and cram everything into the window of conversation, not knowing if we’ll speak again. I typically overshare at this point. I feel like ive become an obsessive personality which is a trait Im not particularly happy about developing and hope this fades over time.
Discovering this page, the really helpful information and this forum will certainly help me navigate this situation and hopefully salvage some self dignity that appears to have gone out the window.
Look forward to hearing from people and sharing experiences.
JJ
HI JJ and welcome!
“Its also left me wondering if my L.O is perhaps going through these feels towards me as well (but is slightly better at hiding it) Has anyone else thought this too?”
Yes, the vast majority of limerent’s think their LO might feel similarly. The constant fantasising fools our minds into it. And very occasionally, they do. But most often they don’t. They might have some feelings, they might like us a bit, the might just like us as a friend, enjoy our attention or any myriad of options that give us just enough positive feedback to build our love stories upon.
At the end of the day, if our LOs really wanted us like we want them, they would make their move.
“At the end of the day, if our LOs really wanted us like we want them, they would make their move.”
Yes and no. There are some women who will not make a move, no matter what. But the theory I’d posit is that limerence is the exception to every rule. How someone acts with an LO can be very different than how they act with a non-LO. So the women who never make a move on a man may make a move on an LO.
I am not sure about that.
If the LO has feelings but is with somebody else or knows you are with somebody else they may not.
Or if they aren’t sure about your feelings and do not want to be rejected..
We limerents also not always make a move, even though we are very much interested…
I cannot tell what my LO perceived or not the times we spoke besides the fact that, with time, I asked her more Qs but she did too and that is what you do usually when you get to know people, or?
30 years ago I spent over a year in a state of very painful limerence over a girl I met in college. At the time I didn’t know there was a name for my condition, or even that it happened to other people.
But I do remember there was a song by Ministry called Just One Fix. It began with the line “never trust a junkie” and being Ministry the song basically just repeated the line “just one fix”. I’ve never used drugs, but I was aware enough to know that being with my LO was having the same impact on me as a junkie needing a fix. And just like a junkie, all I wanted was just one more fix… I listened to the song many times just trying to ease the emotional pain.
So this article is very interesting to me, because it shows that instead of drugs, my own brain had addicted me to a person, and that my ‘just one fix’ idea was pretty much right all along.
I am here today because it happened again with a girl, but being older I was able to recognize it coming on again, and able to take steps to stop it and recover. This website and articles like this really help. It’s still kind of amazing to me that I’m not the only one this happens to, but I am glad to find so much useful info.
There is something to be said for being a bit older and wiser. This is only my second episode as well, with the first being almost 12 years ago. Because of the age gap between myself and my new LO I find things a bit more manageable though there are moments of painful disappointment. Younger me took it all so much worse and definitely disclosed to LO 1 to a very painful rejection. Older me is just taking the good with the bad and reminding myself I’m blessed to even have her as a friend.
This exactly describes LO’s effect on me. Although this is not my first LE (it’s either my 3rd or my 7th depending on how you count the borderline cases), I have literally never met anyone in my life who pressed my noradrenaline, dopamine, oxytocin, and vasopressin buttons this hard, this consistently, and apparently without any idea that he is doing it and without my having any effect at all on him in return. It’s insane, but at least I know it’s my brain chemicals causing the problem, not a character flaw.
P.S. I purchased and read a hard copy of Dr. L’s book. It was very good. I will be rereading the section on neuroscience especially.
A scientifically-proven effective practice to reduce rumination and anxiety:
https://youtu.be/pi9Xvh-Dva4?si=9UHjBxGubRj2hq-o — How I rewired my brain in 6 weeks — BBC News
I’ve practiced daily (from 10-100 minutes) for four months and have largely reduced my cptsd dysregulation — habitual rumination, frequent anxiety, extreme sadness, chronic, low-grade depression, social—timidness, easily triggered abandonment melange, sudden panic attacks, etc. It also brought me a lot peace, joy, and even giddiness.
It can be done anywhere (eyes must be closed) and takes effect immediately if mindful concentration is high, even just for 3-5 minutes.
Hi All. Some help required please. I am married and had my first ever episode of limerance at work recently. LO sat next to me for 9 months and it is the first ever time I felt all of the things mentioned in this article. Nothing ever happened between us and somehow I think LO had no idea how I ever felt. LO moved departments a few months ago and I barely see her (I purposely have gone as close to NC as you can in the office environment). Yet months on and I still feel the same. I’d love to contact her / go out for coffees at lunchtime etc especially as work is a bit of a struggle at the moment and I know in the short term she would give me the dopamine high. Yet I know deep down that it will probably only compound my obsession for LO so I feel in limbo especially as I know I will never disclose to her so I guess what would ever be the point in breaking NC.. but I was rather hoping by now that NC would have reduced my obsession for her – it hasn’t 🥲
I have had an office LO going on 20 months now. Also married to a wonderful woman. My advice, stay the course with NC. Here is how I view it. There is no innocent personal interaction I can ever have with LO. I am always in a frame of mind of pursuing her. If she reciprocates just a little I start to build greater desire and expectation from her and ultimately when she does not reciprocate how I want, that leads to a let down, disappointment, and depressive moods. I have found that it’s better to tackle my LE as my own struggle and not use LO as a mood enhancer for it. That is just perpetuating the LE. Right now I have to collaborate with LO on work matters but I stay away from any personal relationship with her. I do pretty well these days, I still am highly attracted to her and the intrusive thoughts still linger but my emotions stay more even and I function fairly well. It is a sort of limbo but I just think if I stay the course time will help.
Also, if you pursue LO and you guys become closer you will be amazed at the desire to disclose. This is what happened to me. I pursued for 10 months, had some very positive interactions with LO, disclosed only to be completely shut down. I had no intention of disclosing but it happened. I spent a good month in damage control and now LO and I have no discernable friendship.
And what if she did reciprocate positively? What if she even becomes more of an aggressor? Are you willing to play that game and find yourself in a EA or PA?
A lot of dealing with an LE with workplace LO is trial and error but I just know from my story and many other stories here, NC seems to be the best strategy. It just takes a lot of time and discipline.
Read the blog on being friends with LO. Sounds like it would be helpful.
Speedwagon is right, DON’T DISCLOSE TO LO!
Thanks Speedwagon. Yes NC takes a lot of time and discipline but the reality is even dull times or NC has to be better than the tyranny of a LE – although for some reason my brain still struggles with that concept !
Welcome Ryan Drake! It’s so good to meet you.
The reason you’re stuck in your limerence is because you continue to daydream about connecting with her.
“ Yet months on and I still feel the same. I’d love to contact her / go out for coffees at lunchtime etc”
I suspect that you allow yourself to daydream about her because you’re having some unpleasant experiences in real life and thoughts of your LO are a nice escape.
“… work is a bit of a struggle at the moment and I know in the short term she would give me the dopamine high.”
What you are doing makes sense. You discovered a way to regulate your mood. Here is the problem, your daydreams of LO are building pleasure pathways in your brain. At some point, your brain will automatically send thoughts of LO to you because it wants to make you happy. Unfortunately, these thoughts can become intrusive thoughts and, oh boy, the intrusive thoughts phase is awful. Here is a short video for you that explains intrusive thoughts as well as how to handle them.
How to Deal with Intrusive Thoughts
by Mark Freeman
https://youtu.be/laeYq51SYA0
I avoid fantasies/daydreams/reverie of my current LO because I learned about intrusive thoughts with my last LO. It was awful! My intrusive thoughts of LO2 is the reason I am part of the LwL community.
Here are some things that I can focus on so that I’m distracted from thinking about my LO…
Running
Throwing axes (target practice)
Playing games on my phone
Playing board games with my family
Going outside
Interacting in the comments section of the LwL community
You have to find what works for you. I encourage you to find a physical outlet if you don’t already have one. Exercise is a fabulous mood-regulator.
I haven’t read Speedwagon’s comment yet, but I have no doubt that he has great advice for you.
Best wishes!
Thank you Lovisa. What you have said is spot on. Part of me is frustrated I still feel this way but at least I’ve not given in and initiated contact since she left the department. I have been doing lots of exercise to stay purposeful. My brain just can’t seem to stop suggesting to me it would be a really good idea to initiate contact!
Yikes. Initiating contact could go sideways fast. How would you initiate contact if you did?
By the way, Speedwagon and I happen to be “experts” on disclosure. He disclosed to his LO almost a year ago. I disclosed to my first LO in an attempt to address the elephant in the room. I accidentally disclosed to my second LO and my third LO disclosed to me. All of those disclosures were a bad idea. Reciprocation happened every time and it complicated the relationship. The only good disclosure for me was when I disclosed to my husband. He is incredibly patient and supportive. He tried to win back my attention by showering me with flowers, massages, attention and breakfast in bed. It was so sweet, but also unnecessary. My heart has always been his. I just got distracted, but I was never going to act on my feelings towards my LOs. Anyway, seriously, disclosing to your LO is a really bad idea. I think you can read Speedwagon’s experience on the New Year’s post or maybe it was Limerence for a coworker. I hope you get a chance to read about his experience and learn those tough lessons from him instead of learning them yourself (sorry Speedy).
Best wishes!
Lovisa,
Throwing axes, really?
Hilarious! Sounds kind of dangerous for bystanders though:)
No running so far🙈🙈
lol, thanks Mila. It is kinda funny. I prefer archery, but we don’t have a good place to practice archery in our yard. Our ax/knife/hatchet targets are in front of the neighbors’ corral, which is fine, because there is no danger of a stray knife flying that far. A stray arrow would be too threatening to the horses and I would be devastated if someone hurt those beautiful animals. My husband has been trying to figure out a way to target practice with a bow in a responsible way. Until then, I actually prefer the hatchets. My 14-year-old daughter is crazy good with the axes, but I can’t even stick them every time. It’s funny, the day after I bought her a new axe, she said, “Hey Mom, have you ever heard of Lizzy Borden?” To which I replied, “I sure have and I think I’ll be taking that axe back.” Lol
I just got home from an outdoor run. My hands are freezing! I believe in you, Mila!
LOL, Lovisa!
I can picture you and your daughter throwing axes like crazy and people taking cover:)
I admire your active lifestyle. I‘ll start running again on Monday, fingers crossed, I tell you now so that I feel bad if I won’t do it..
Monday it is! You can do it.
Initiating contact wouldn’t be so odd – LO was someone who shared several personal stories with me during her time sitting next to me. I think she expected me to be in touch when she moved departments but by then I had resolved for NC. So it wouldn’t be so odd for me to email her and for us to ‘catch up’. It’s all so very tempting especially with the dopamine high but I know rationally it would set me back in the long term and achieve very little. Maybe one day the feelings will subside. More likely she will leave in a few years’ time and then without temptation / even passing her in the office the thoughts will then disappear. It’s not fun!
“I know rationally it would set me back in the long term and achieve very little.”
Ryan
Once I realized this myself (actually making contact with her is easy) it made it much easier to maintain NC. She has moved on, probably thinks very little, if anything, about me and this is the rational thing to do; let her move on. That said, after a year and a half of NC the temptation is still there. Not constant but still there. I haven’t used snuff in 13 years now and I still get the craving/temptation now and then. Keep that rational brain front and center and maybe we will both get past this to the point it is an afterthought. Wishing the best for you Ryan.