Why does uncertainty have such power in cementing desire for a limerent object? It makes sense that rejection would (hopefully) kill limerent desire, but it seems a bit counterintuitive that consummation would also limit the duration of a limerent experience. And yet, it is an experience that many limerents report. Uncertainty seems to be extremely important for the reinforcement of limerence, and deeping of the craving for reciprocation.
It’s likely that reinforcement is the key. Reinforcement learning is a well studied area of animal (including homo sapiens) behaviour. What makes some experiences rewarding and desirable, but others neutral or of diminishing interest? Well, in keeping with the counterintuitive experience of limerents having consummation, many animals become desensitized to predictable rewards.
The classic example of this is the Skinner box. There have been many variants of the classic experiment, but the basic scenario is that an animal (in Skinner’s case, pigeons, but it’s true of mammals too) is placed in a box with a button or lever, and a hatch through which food pellets can be delivered. This is its tasty reward. Yum.
However, once acclimatised to the box, the schedule for delivery of the pellet can be varied. Sometimes, the delivery is very predictable (say, every third peck results in a pellet), but at other times it is unpredictable – pellets are delivered with complicated patterns of pecking. What was found was that the most effective schedule of reinforcement for pecking behaviour was variable, intermittent delivery. This schedule resulted in more frantic and persistent pecking, and also resulted in a more lasting memory (or, perhaps urge). If, at the end of these experiments, the delivery of food was switched off, eventually the pigeons gave up their pecking – so called extinction of the memory. Those pigeons that had a variable rate of reinforcement were slowest when it came to extinction.
In a final set of experiments, the delivery of pellets occurred independently of button pecking, so the pigeon is not able to predict when a pellet will be released. In this case, the pigeons basically lost their minds. They started to exhibit bizarre behaviour – bobbing their heads, weaving from foot to foot, turning circles, pecking random parts of the box, and so on. What was happening was the pigeons were failing to learn what behaviour had led to the release of the pellet. Because it was impossible to learn, as it was intermittent reward that wasn’t in fact linked to anything within the pigeon’s power. In a desperate attempt to impose order on a maddeningly random event, the pigeon was futilely trying out any of the various moves and behaviours that had preceded reward. They became superstitious.
So how does any of this relate to limerence? Well, it turns out we’re not that special as a species when it comes to reinforcement schedules. Skinner himself made a direct comparison between the behavioural conditioning of his pigeons and gambling addiction in humans. The gambling companies have studied reinforcement learning very carefully, and slot machines are designed to optimally link audiovisual stimulation (flashing lights, and beepy jingles) to intermittent schedules of reward. Also, there is often a big payout early on, to really cement the positive reinforcement and condition behaviour.
The behavioural work has since been complemented by neuroscience investigations into reward signalling in the brain. The neuromodulators associated with reward (dopamine and serotonin, principally) are released throughout the brain soon after positive reinforcement through reward. For a predictable reward schedule, the dopamine release becomes desensitized over time, meaning the same reward no longer gives the same neurochemical “high”. However, for intermittent rewards, desensitization is less pronounced and occurs more slowly. Unpredictable rewards have more lasting impact than predictable ones.
Limerence is sometimes termed, in my opinion very accurately, person addiction. It would not be too surprising if what we knew about addiction, neurochemistry, behavioural reinforcement and the nature of reward stimuli did not apply to limerence. It’s now easy to see why uncertainty could be so powerful. Any limerent knows the potency of the emotional high linked to limerent “reward” – a positive interaction with LO and some sign of reciprocation. If that reward occurs on an unpredictable or intermittent schedule, occasionally interspersed with the negative reinforcement of an embarrassing or negative event, you have an optimal pattern for evoking stable behavioural conditioning.
Matters are complicated by the ability of person addicts to reinforce themselves with the second-class hit of reverie. Imagination can give a minor relief from the negative sensation of absence from the LO, but the principal stimulus (a happy, reciprocating LO) is the key determinant of reinforcement.
So, given all that background on reinforcement and behaviour, let’s analyse a few cases of limerent uncertainty.
1) The mutually-limerent LO. Without obstacles, this case leads to ecstatic union. But potential obstacles abound. Perhaps the commonest is that the LO is already in a committed relationship.
If the relationship is a good one, then the LO will be conflicted, and this is likely to result in unpredictable and inconsistent behaviour. Moments of happy mutual flirting or evidence of affection, will be followed by guilt and overcompensating aloofness. To the limerent, this would be powerfully reinforcing as it would not be predictable before each encounter whether the happy or guilty LO was more likely to manifest. If the relationship is less good (or even toxic) then matters are even worse – the LO is likely to be highly conflicted, and the swings of behaviour more extreme. For a limerent with white knight or rescuer syndrome this is even more motivating. The LO is behaving erratically and with uncertainty, and only you can save them from their awful relationship! Unwittingly, the two limerents spark uncertainty between themselves, deepening the potential for full blown limerent obsession.
2) The non-limerent LO. Here the primary uncertainty comes from the inability of the non-limerent to reciprocate with mutual limerence, and the difficulty of the limerent in recognising that they are on to a losing proposition.
This is another very common scenario. The non-limerent innocently generates uncertainty, by neither comprehending nor being able to return the limerent’s obsessive need for mutuality. It’s also maddening for the non-limerent, of course, because they were blithely enjoying the company of someone they like and want to be with, maybe even embarking on a sexual relationship, but then their new paramour turns all jealous and needy and weird. So they pull back. Perhaps start to see other people too, as they are now more fun to be with than the mad limerent. Meanwhile, the uncertain affections of the LO plunge the limerent deep into rumination and obsessive thoughts, and iron-cast reinforcement. Tragedy unfolds.
3) The narcissistic sociopath LO. Yeah, these ones are the worst. They’ve learned that unpredictable rewards help them to manipulate people to get what they want, so they play games.
I suppose one end of this spectrum are the pick up artists who use negging or seduction or other methods of manipulation to pull. Worse from the point of view of a limerent, are the pros who “love bomb” at the early stages of a developing relationship, but then start to play hard to get, or start to undermine the limerent’s self-confidence in order to manipulate them into uncertainty. Once the limerence is established, the sociopath can dial up the exploitation and manipulative behaviour, triggering the limerent to start behaving like the insane pigeons in Skinner’s experiment, desperately but hopelessly trying to figure out how their behaviour can lead to reward rather than punishment. If trauma bonding sets in, this can end up with a properly abusive relationship characterised by lying and cheating and devaluing of the limerent.
So, you know. Be careful out there.
I am so grateful for this blog!
I started a new job 4 months ago and I started a friendship with a coworker as soon as he finished a long term relationship (I felt very very attracted to him). Of course, very soon sparkles started and we ended up in a sexual relationship “just for fun” (due to his recent break up). I lied to myself pretending that I could handle the “just for fun” relationship, but I started obssessing for this guy (as I did with other guys in the past). I started being weird and he started to pull back and everything now is exactly case n°2. I must add that this guy is a player, he is a cliché of a bad boy.
Searching about what was wrong with me I found this blog and everything is so clear for me now! I thought that I was the only person feeling this crazyness in the world, so thank you!
The problem now is that we see each other every day and we share friends in the office and we try to be cordial and friendly, but his distance and coldness is killing me and I can’t stop remembering the good times and how happy I was. Damn you, limerence!
(sorry for my english)
Yeah, I’ve often thought that a “friends with benefits” arrangement would be super hard for a limerent. Even if you start with the best intentions, a bit of bonding and uncertainty and the limerence will get you.
Mind you, I think many non-limerents will feel the same. Carefree sex is probably much more difficult for most people to cope with than popular culture would have us believe.
Wishing you luck in the battle Jetsum! If it helps: being treated coldly by a player is almost certainly better for your well-being in the long run. Better to be struggling with happy memories than living in a miserable present with an unreliable guy…
Hey,
Assuming you’re a female, don’t get too down on yourself for “not being able” to do the FWB/ “just for fun” casual sex thing with someone you really liked. That’s actually normal for females.
Limerence aside, women bond much faster and deeper than men do due to their much larger stores of oxytocin. Their systems flood with it during every romantic encounter, even flirting, depending.
Guess what has the opposite effect – testosterone. (I can tell you that personally, since I had a small dose of testosterone therapy. Helped tons with de-personalizing my breakup. ) This helps explain why guys tend to bond much more slowly, in general.
So be very careful about who you obsess on, and sleep with.
“Limerence aside, women bond much faster and deeper than men do due to their much larger stores of oxytocin.”
I think if there is physicality involved, yes, then women bond faster. But they’ve done studies that men fall in love faster.
I’ve recently heard about testosterone being helpful with depression and anxiety- have you found it to be true?
“women bond much faster and deeper than men do due to their much larger stores of oxytocin. Their systems flood with it during every romantic encounter, even flirting, depending.”
Not convinced this is correct unless the woman is giving birth or lactating. As I understand it, male and female mammalian brains produce a similar level of oxytocin when they experience a comparative level of arousal.
There are more bonding hormones released in women during sex. It is why men can detach more easily after sex and women can’t. Have you never gone to bed with someone you thought was OK and the next thing you know, you are dying to hear from him? He didn’t become cooler overnight. 😃 It’s that you had sex with him.
It felt so good reading this! I am discovering myself as a limerent, although I believe in a kind of spectrum in limerence. I did laugh heartily because your style is agile and good-humoured, very nice. The laughing is I realise a sign that I have just identified with something I suffered from without being able to produce a type, now I am sort of identifying myself as a limerent, but I hesitate because of your initial definition saying that the attention is not welcome by the LO (my acronym-alert mind jerked, I always want the full picture, so I mentally produced Limerent Object, that wasn’t too hard, phew). My LO makes me feel like the mad pigeon (that made me laugh so much). Yet, last time I asked directly the question, he said: don’t stop, meaning don’t stop sending your vocal messages. Yeah but LO never replies, has other things to do, so am I limerent or is my LO complex in the lines of the latter perversion you describe, I feel the reply to my question needs to be yes. That does not please me 🙁
I have only just discovered the blog and, wow .. mind=blown! This is me to an absolute ‘T’. I never even knew limerence existed until yesterday but this explains, perfectly, so many tumultuous emotional events in my life.
In retrospect, I can see I have had countless glimmers and a pretty fair number of subsequent limerent episodes. They have dominated my emotional/romantic life since I was a teenager (i’m now 49) and, as a consequence, I’ve never been able to sustain a relationship. I’ve had some long ones (one for ten years) but they have always ended and usually because I have become limerent and chucked things away in favour of pursuing my LO. In a few cases, the attraction has been mutual (what a crazy high that leads to … my LO actually reciprocates!!) but in others this has not been the case and it has been dreadfully painful and anxiety inducing and almost always ended in hellish disaster.
Currently and recently, I’ve become intensely limerent for a 26 year old woman – physically very attractive, funny, cynical and deeply emotionally wounded from two previous, unhealthy relationships. I have seen her a sum total of six times, we’ve slept together on three of these occasions (need I say it *appears* to be the most extraordinary sex I have ever experienced) and we text just about every day, all day. I have bestowed plenty of gifts on her over the past six weeks. She alone has decided when we meet, every time, and the pace of our messaging is entirely controlled by her. She is completely and entirely in charge. It has been incredibly difficult.
This has occurred against the backdrop of my ending a five year relationship due to my partner becoming emotionally abusive, a change in my long-term anti-depressant medication to combat increased anxiety and depression (resulting in an initial exaggeration of these symptoms) and development of rebound anxiety from using diazepam to combat the misery inflicted by the change in medication. I have not been this low for perhaps ten years.
I have lost weight, missed work, checked my phone a million times and developed terrible text anxiety. It has been both euphoric and absolutely crushing.
Without initially realising it, I have responded to my limerence in the same ways I have learnt to before. First, disclosure. Tried this twice, now. In both cases the response has been the same – I like you but i’m not ready for a relationship so you’ll have to decide what you want to do next. So, uncertainty and hope. Secondly, no contact. Last week, I messaged my LO and told her we could not remain in contact etc and she responded by telling me how deeply this saddened her but that should we accept my decision. Needless to say, I resumed contact the next day, she confessed she had cried after my supposedly final message and now felt lost and alone (more hope and uncertainty). I worked tirelessly to rebuild things (purely by text and sending of flowers), which has largely been effective, but my LO’s messaging is now far less flirtatious and more neutral in tone (which just adds to my anxiety).
I’m now currently waiting to be told if she can fit me into her busy social life this weekend and get together with me. However, it has started to dawn on me that perhaps she is a pretty selfish person, enjoying my attention and allowing it to fill some gap in her life, without any regard for how this might affect me or the healthy principles of equity and reciprocity in any kind of relationship. I don’t want to admit she may be selfish, because it is contrary to the spectacular image of her that I have built in my mind, but there is some very small part of me that thinks this might be the case.
It’s been six weeks of terrible emotional drama but reading this site (as I did all last night and since 4:30am this morning) has been incredibly illuminating. I’m not sure what I’ll do next. Part of me is hanging on hopelessly to the idea that she will come around, see that i’m god’s gift and consent to a normal, equitable relationship. The other party of me thinks this is a pretty unlikely outcome given things to date and that I will just continue to be strung along and suffer as a consequence.
So, that’s my sorry tale. Writing this has been cathartic and also therapeutic given everything I have read on this site – it has allowed me to more objectively view and articulate my experience and situation. I’m hoping this will help me sort things out so I can get on with my life instead of spending all of it obsessing over one person who, it seems, is emotionally and romantically unavailable and, perhaps, quite selfish and self-centred.
Hi Andrew,
Thanks for your message – and glad the site is helping!
Good luck navigating your way through this “high drama” relationship. From what you’ve described, it does sound like a recipe for limerence. So, think deeply, live purposefully, and go with your plan of trying to view things objectively. It’s definitely the best way to sort things out, in my view. Wishing you the best of luck…
Something to keep in mind when your grinding through this:
Are the LO’s similar? Are most of your LOs significantly younger? A 26 year age gap implies a big imbalance in power on several levels. Right now, she appears to have it and appears to know it.
Theoretically, you should be chasing her mother.
Wishing you luck Andrew as a fellow limerent of similar age. And as someone who didn’t know what was happening to his emotional state until finding this blog 3 months ago.
As Scharnhorst said, there is clearly an imbalance in power. And you are allowing this to exist (though I know from experience many reasons why this is the way it is!) But there is also an imbalance of life experience and different generational philosophies. My LO and I were both married, so my situation was certainly different and I cannot offer much to those who are single and going through this process other than my support.
My limerence has not been confined to women much younger than myself – it appears not to be subject to age discrimination.
My most successful (as in, time elapsed and happiness) relationships have been with women about my own age but i have had multiple, shorter-term (two year?) relationships with women about 20 years younger than myself. I like younger women, not just for their physicality but because I find them refreshingly un-preoccupied with their jobs, their houses and their kids, all things that bore me but seem to be central to the lives of people my own age (not making any judgements, here).
I had not considered the issue of a power imbalance. I am aware, however, that she holds most of the cards and knows it although her reaction to my attempting to end things suggested to me that she is somewhat emotionally invested and feels she has something to lose, too. Perhaps she is being a bit manipulative, i’m not sure.
It’s pretty obvious to me she has some sort of relationship-phobia having been badly treated by guys in the past but enjoys having me there but without her having to make any sort of commitment at all. I suppose that just complicates things .. i’m not only dealing with being limerent but also with an LO that is only prepared to step halfway through the doorway, which leads to mixed messages (hope and uncertainty) and a very uncertain reward schedule. I don’t think that’s an expression of age difference, however.
Fair enough regarding the age qualifier. I like how you used the term “uncertain reward schedule.” I’d say that’s what I had at the euphoric heights. How I could continue to be “honorable” (at least in my mind) by allowing LO to be certain of her actions but also get what I wanted at the same time.
I was going to say I’m not a chronic limerent, but I paused to think about why I would say that. In my younger years, I gravitated towards girls/women who had boyfriends. I was very comfortable around them as there was no risk of being rejected. Same thing with women I’m not attracted to. After being married a few years, I became very comfortable around all women. I’m taken now, where’s the risk? LOL.
I’m sure I had a fear of intimacy due to a fear of heartbreak. I will say that my break-ups seemed to hurt more or longer than the “average” guy. Most times, I even knew it was for the best, but I believe I missed the “feelings” of being close to someone. A “break-up”, if you will, while married wasn’t ever a possibility in my universe. But that’s where I stand now, not looking for a new relationship but rather strengthening the stable one.
I’m pulling for you to continue down the path to understanding yourself. I’m still trying.
So recently I have had a bout of limerence for my instructor (driving instructor). I was attracted to him instantly and then one day when really had to be supportive it got bad. I remember asking him a bizarre question of “would he ever take a girl back he had ended things with” and talked about dating someone his age. I think he picked up on my fishing because he mentioned having a girl. And that sort of ended it. But then i dressed up to go out prior to my lesson and got a reaction. Yes, I wanted one. But got more of one than i expected. And he got hot and bothered. But i realised it was my outfit so I didnt get excited. Then the following week he was still hot and bothered around me and i was dressed normally. Since then every lesson has been jokes and banter. One time he text out of the blue to see if i was for a lesson out of the blue within an hour and turned up with a fully valleted car. I got really excited/ shy and couldnt really drive. Then i text him to invite him out and he ignored me. The penny dropped but then he kept with the banter and jokes so my head span again. I stopped lessons. But my question is, which kind of sceanario is most likely in my case in terms of this blog. He did mention his girl again but only to moan about her. But he did also hint, he cant be friends with clients. This came after me joking that he had lied about how much something costs. I said he had told me a different price for a speeding fine the week before. An he quipped back “and i thought you said you cant be friends with clients” which i took as a hint about me asking him out. But he never directly confronted my text. And honestly id never believed him about having a girl prior because of how little he spoke of her. I built up the idea he just wanted a reaction from me. It got too much for me, so i said i was taking a break. For that lesson, he kept joking about how angry he would be if he saw me take lessons with someone else. “Hed throw stones at my window”And double checking my story of why i was taking a break. He also mentioned a pub he was in every friday near me. Is he a non-limerent person who thinks because he told me he has a girl, i shouldnt read anymore into it and thinks hes just been friendly. Or is he a fellow limerent whose conflicted? Thats what i cant get my head round. I feel shame for not realising i didnt stand a chance. But then sometimes i feel a bit played. It would hurt when he asked for payment sometimes at the end of lessons (he never did this until i asked him out. Hed assume id pay him as i always did)
In the second point, of being limerent for a non limerent, are you saying that it’s impossible to be in a relationship with an lo that is non limerent? Like are you basically saying that it’s not worth perusing an lo unless they are also limerent or saying that if you like someone a lot you shouldn’t try to be with them because it will always end in a bad relationship that won’t work out? Or can a limerent have a normal relationship with a non limerent person?
Hello, Sebastian,
IIRC, the Dr. answered that question in another post but I can’t remember which one, sorry.
Basically, the gist of it it’s not that is impossible for limerents and non-limerents to be in mutual relationships, but that limerents need to be careful when managing their expectations in such scenarios. We have to remember that limerence is always something that happens inside our heads, and that non-limerent SOs will always see the relationship in a different and less potent light than us, so if we start thinking that they’re acting “coldly”, most probably it’s just our imaginations, and we shouldn’t follow the voice in our limerent brains that tells us to start acting all clingy about it.
I’ve been with non limerent men and it was not easy in the beginning, it also depends a bit on how the non limerent is, is he patience, does he show a lot of affection. My ex husband was sweet but unreadable ( prob. Autistic) that drove my LE to the max. My fear of abandonment was there 24-7 and it was hell. Still he stuck it out with me till I calmed down. With current LO, I think I scared the … Out of him when I could not hide my expectations about us anymore. ( Wasn’t really aware I was doing that , for me it felt natural ) I wish I knew how to take things slow.
Yes, is really hard. Trying to play cool and act as “normal” people do when you’re not feeling like that at all. Whenever I tried to ask a LO on a date I could’t help but feeling like an alien who’s still learning human behavior…
Exactly! I managed to hide it for months but it took all my energy. Made a whole lists with do and don’ts . LO once time told me I confused him ( mildly put I think )
It’s so annoying to not being able to distinguish what I’m feeling ( and thinking )in a relationship is normal or given in by limerence. I’m surprised my husband stayed, the bizar behaviour I put him through.
Managing these feelings publicly is hard isn’t it. I am so often rendered speechless in the company of LO. There are times when he attempts to start a conversation with me and I just fail to engage at all. And boy do I kick myself for losing the much desired opportunity of a wonderful LO fix that will boost my mood for weeks….aaargh! I can see LO finds it hard too but he least he manages an attempt. It worries me that I must come across as very stand-off-ish or uncaring sometimes.
Once I am in a relationship with an LO, I am usually OK though. I am naturally very private about my deepest feelings and habitually cover them up with smiles, fun or laughter so am comfortable with doing that in those early days. I am not sure if even my husband has learnt to read me that well yet…..and I rock at poker 🙂
Sometimes I think I do everything backwards in a relationship 😀
Since you guys are answering my questions I have another one for you. In another article dr l says you should avoid the company of people that give off the glimmer and that you shouldn’t try to be friends with them.
“ This is the moment to nip things in the bud if you do not want to succumb. An active decision to avoid the company of the potential LO is a wise move..”
Now I understand that if you’re deep in a le with an lo being a friend is unauthentic and damaging to the person dealing with le. However I feel like with relationships; especially with what Mary said, that being friends with someone who has a glimmer and developing a relationship with them is important. And like yknow then it can get to where you like them and should disclose but is he saying that you should avoid anyone that you would actually like or that causes a glimmer for you? It kind of seems like you’re not going to end up with anyone you could actually be limerent for in a relationship with in that mindset. Here’s the article.
https://livingwithlimerence.com/2017/02/22/the-glimmer/
I think the answer is different depending on whether there are barriers or not. If a having a relationship is a real possibility (i.e. both are single) then you should go for it – get to know them and ask them out when ready to. How do you react to clear-cut rejection after disclosure? Does it resolve the LE? For me, it can be like ice water over my LE flames. All is not completely forgotten but the spell is broken and I can recover.
I was good friends with my husband for 8 months or so while my LE for him grew. He is warm, kind, friendly and fun – his company made me feel comfortable and soothed my LE so it did not get in the way as much. We had lot of friends in common which helped as we could go out as part of a group. I think it was that “comfortable” factor that made me fall in love with him.
Before we started dating, I once explicitly disclosed to him and he replied “there is no spark, but that doesn’t mean it couldn’t be lit”. I slunk away shamefaced but later formulated a plan to” light the spark”. Not too hard really, a very sensual kiss in a nightclub when we were slightly tipsy did the trick 😉
Thinking about this makes me realise I have a lovely husband and am an idiot for wanting someone else so very much. Sigh.
@Sebastian Howard, my interpretation of Dr L’s advice over avoiding relationships with those who display a glimmer is due to how limerence is so powerful and can have adverse effects for the limerent and their mental state. As limerence isn’t easily treatable, the best thing for the limerent’s sanity is to keep away from those people, lest they descend into a LE trap.
I understand this point, and yes, avoidance of a thing can help prevent it from harming you, but you’re also correct that complete avoidance isn’t necessarily a good thing because it restricts the limerent to a narrow field of people they could have a relationship with, and as with anything, what triggers the glimmer is completely random, adding further complications.
My personal view is that it certainly depends on both the limerent, the severity of their limerence, and most importantly of all, what sort of character the LO happens to be, whether a relationship – or friendship for that matter – can and should happen. I certainly advise against any limerent becoming involved or associating with an LO who not only suspects or knows about the limerent’s intense feelings, but uses it to manipulate them. (The same can apply to any relationship or friendship too, for that matter!)
On the other hand, if the LO is someone who is a good person and does genuinely care for the limerent, and if the limerent is able to manage their feelings, as @Allie mentioned below, it’s entirely possible to have a relationship with a non-limerent, and if it can be pursued, then it should be. That’s my view anyway. I hope that helps!
Oh yes that is so true LG!! The character of the LO is paramount…..someone you can trust and makes you feel safe should be fine. Someone narcissistic or flaky….run.
@Allie, completely agree! The one common characteristic that binds my 4 LOs together is the fact I felt drawn to how nice and friendly they appeared – definitely the case with LO4! 🙂 It’s also nice to hear that it’s worked out between you and your husband. 🙂 A good example that limerents and non-limerents can develop strong and healthy relationships that last! 🙂
I am new to this site and fairly new to the concept of limerence. Am I reading this correctly, there are “limerent” types of people? Somehow that worries me. My impression was that limerence can strike anybody at any age. But are there “limerents” for whom this phenom happens again and again? I’m just trying to get through this particular situation and the thought of it ever happening again is…overwhelming. Now onto trying to gain acceptance.
I am a 70 year serial limerent and although not numerous encounters they’ve surfaced more frequently as I age. Looking younger doesn’t help All heavily packed with anxiety due my vivid imagination.
My husband is a non-limerent. 16 years ago, he was my LO for 6 months before we started dating. I did not show him the true depth of my feelings for many months, other than through the physical expression of love. He was lovely to date, his feelings built gradually (and normally) over a few months until they matched mine. He is a good husband still – very loyal and committed, though maybe somewhat complacent. The benefit for me is that know he will never get carried away by an LE and leave me 🙂
Thanks for replies guys. I imagine that almost anyone that’s limerent, because it’s such a rare condition, that you would most likely end up in a relationship with someone who’s non limerent. But I appreciate clarification.
I see limerence as a common condition, fueling hundreds of years of art, poetry, writing and music. It seems universal, at least once in a lifetime. That helps me suffer with/accept what I am going through as a human right of passage. (While it sucks…)
I’m guessing, but the artistic personality may have a higher percentage of limerents.
It’s been about two years of having an LO. It’s an unhealthy attachment to say the least.
I was involved with a man just after my separation. I broke it off when I realized he didn’t want anything serious. For a year, I would go NC off and on, believing that I was past it. I wasn’t. More than a year in, he would say and do manipulative things to keep me hooked. An intuitive person, he knew how much it hurt me. Whether he’s a sociopath or has another personality disorder, I’ve never figured out. I’ve had healthy relationships overall. The perfect storm of separation/guilt/loneliness allowed this guy in. I resolved to go NC permanently. He’ll always be dangerous for me. I think had we continued for a longer time in a relationship, limerence would have dissolved. He was intelligent, funny, charming, but had many issues. I met him at a vulnerable time of my life. He white knighted until he was bored. He’s incapable of anything real or long lasting. With me or anyone, sadly. See? My compassion for him started this…
Agh! So 1) is my current situation. And 2) seems to feel like every other meaningful relationship I’ve had.
Andrew, I have also just discovered this blog, and frankly everything I’m reading is sending me in a tailspin. I just can’t believe that this is a thing. And it explains so much of my life.
Yup me too Kat (on most of what you say!). This site sees into my mind.
Not sure if my situation is 1) but might be.
I personally prefer 2) (or no LE) for long term love as partner won’t eventually fall into a new LE with someone else.
Would love to have experienced a good short term 1) though 😉
Never had a 3) and suspect I am incapable of that.
This is very hopeful reading all of this. And indeed it feels like mind reading
In my case I’m married and we have two kids together … my wife is understanding thankfully but my LO is the caregiver (day care) for our smallest, at least until September which makes things super awkward 🙁
First time visiting. Thanks for all the work you do.
I discovered the concept of limerence ten years when I was going through an extreme bout of it that seemed inexplicable to me.
The dopamine rush from a text that pushed all the right buttons etc
I think the nip it in the bud idea is the best.
All the proper friendships and relationships I have formed that have had any endurance had two things in common:
1) There was never any sense of doubt insecurity or longing yet an immediate sense of a door being opened and the thrill being healthy and hearty–not necessarily intoxicated or transfixed
2) There was no superstitious omens or lucky charms or dreamy esoteric thoughts–just simple basic facts that are obvious–and comfortable enough to express our desire confidently without fear or apology
So! When i get the GLIMMER now… i wait. I know it’s coming. That PULL to go back there and face a whack of cortisol when seeing her not there tonight/today/whenever … the jilts and the jolts!
Instead I do what you’ve suggested… i mentally list all my real intentions and purposes in life and since none of them correspond or would suitably accommodate the unlikely inappropriate and boundary breaking scenario that the GLIMMER ignites… i can take this opportunity to NOT BE THAT GUY
Is the plan, as they say
Cheers to all the lims
This site is a gold mine
“If that reward occurs on an unpredictable or intermittent schedule, occasionally interspersed with the negative reinforcement of an embarrassing or negative event, you have an optimal pattern for evoking stable behavioural conditioning.”
This makes me think of something that hinders limerents’ recovery from their LO: social media. Everyone says it’s bad to keep checking someone’s social media if you are trying to get over them, but very few discuss in depth why we keep doing it. I know you have already written a post about social media Dr L, but I also think this post is very pertinent. We keep clicking on their profiles if for example we want to interpret how they feel about us, or, if an LE ended, to try to see if they miss us. Maybe once in a while we see a post that gives us that “hit”, that “hey, i think this picture/post/like/whatever maybe means [what limerent wants it to mean].” The reason it is so addictive is exactly because we never know when such a hit will happen, it’s completely intermittent unpredictable reward mixed in with tons of negative reinforcement. PLUS, even more vexingly, when a “hit” is obtained, there’s uncertainty about how to interpret the hit itself – is it actually a reward? Maybe? Maybe not? Totally unresolvable questions since we can not see into LO’s mind.
So, checking LOs media seems like the perfect way to turn us from dignified people into insane pigeons bobbing our heads around in all directions and pecking the button (clicking on their profile) repeatedly in desire for an unpredictable reward in terms of both timing and content. Seen this way, it is easy to understand why it is both highly addictive and a completely losing and self defeating proposition. Awareness of this can help to overcome the urge, at least that’s what I tell myself every time i have the urge to check LO’s social media accounts… that I don’t want to be a dumb pigeon!
I’m thankful for the articles. Because I’ve been a limerent for like 7 years for the same person. It began when my best friend lost interest in me and I had no friends. I was very lonely and sad. He was a cousin who cared for me genuinely but not romantically. He came to my house every weekend. And we got to spend time together, which made me very happy. I couldn’t believe someone like him would actually pay attention to me.. cuz no one ever did that. And I began to look forward for his visits. He saw me as his little sister and mentioned it proudly around people. Although this should have been a clear rejection, I couldn’t lose interest in him because of his continuous attention. I was just hooked. I would always think of ways to impress him and he was always in my dreams. I’ve always known that I can’t have him, because he’s my cousin and he only sees me as a little sister. My limerence has become dimmer because I don’t see much of him lately. And I’m in a very happy relationship. But every time I see him, even now, my heart beat increases, I get nervous and act dumb. My attraction to him is unchanged. So I try to avoid him. And once in a while he’d be in my dreams. I’d feel guilty about these and freak out. So this time I searched about it.
”it’s also maddening for the non-limerent, of course, because they were blithely enjoying the company of someone they like and want to be with, maybe even embarking on a sexual relationship, but then their new paramour turns all jealous and needy and weird. So they pull back.”
I am there. It’s actually worse I believe because somehow you know that there was great potential here that the person did really really like you but you made her run away because of your unresolved attachement pattern and emotional heaviness. Because this adds the GUILT. There was something. And something powerful. The LO even said it..but then something in ME made him run… And this monster inside I have it’s trauma its childhood it’s past life or so ever. And it’s following ME. All the time. I feel anger towards my family especially my mom because she gave me this shitty baggage. Yet I cannot talk to her about it. I feel guilt towards myself. It is indeed very hard to go out of this mental toxic cycle.
I d love to have some recommendations about a good book or YouTube video explaining the neurological patterns of addictions or giving more deep insight about neuroscience machinery behind all of this. I feel that understanding the phenomenon in a more rationalized scientific way (having spend time doing this through the spiritual spectrum now I feel this is not going anywhere now).
Thank you for all these amazing articles.