A long-running unanswered question about limerence is how common it is in the general population. When she first articulated the idea, Dorothy Tennov didn’t really give a clear answer. She talked about limerents and non-limerents in a way that implied two tribes, but didn’t go into how populous each tribe was.
A later estimate based on, well, not much more than clinical expertise (i.e. an informed guess), put the number at around 5% of the population. That was from Albert Wakin’s work and he envisaged limerence quite differently from Tennov. The 5% estimate was for people who had experienced limerence so severely that it became highly detrimental to their lives. In other words, limerence as a mental disorder rather than the altered mental state that incorporates both agony and ecstasy.
Another estimate was based on an online survey, and exploited the hack of comparing the Myers Briggs personality types that suffering limerents self-reported, to the frequency of those types in the general population. The results showed over-representation of rare introvert MBTI types in the survey participants, and crunching the numbers came up with a value of 4.3% of the population – quite similar to Wakin’s informed guess.
I’ve always been a bit surprised by that number. Just anecdotally, when I talk to people in real life about limerence, more than one in twenty of them seem to recognise the phenomenon. If I was forced to guess, I’d say it was closer to 50:50, although perhaps not so many of the limerents have had a case so bad that led to the more extreme manifestations of person addiction.
Conversely, the limerence quiz on this site has now been completed by over 26000 people, but in that case limerents outnumber non-limerents in the opposite direction (about 10% are non-limerents – although this depends very much on where you put your threshold for the scoring).
The problem with all of these approaches is that they have a lot of known and unknown biases. It could be that introverts are much more likely to fill in online surveys than extraverts. Obviously, many more limerents will be searching for insight and have completed my quiz, whereas the non-limerents were merely curious. What’s really needed is a large scale survey of people chosen at random, and asked some carefully crafted questions about their experiences in the early stages of love.
Well, as regular readers have probably noticed, I’ve been laying the ground for this for a while. It’s finally done, and the results are in.
Methodology
There were several big questions about limerence that I wanted answered, and so I decided to come up with a lean survey that could be sent out to a large number of US and UK adults, using an online polling company. I chose Pollfish, because they have quite a clever reward system – if someone fills in the survey they get a reward that is linked to the site they are browsing when the offer pops up. In other words, to avoid the bias that comes from paying people directly for the results (so you get professional poll takers dominating the sample), people get access to a personalised reward, that they were already seeking, if they take part.
The next stage was to settle on a small enough number of questions to prevent people getting irritated and abandoning before the end. I went for five.
The key factors that I wanted to know about were: how common is limerence in general, how common is “person addiction” limerence where it becomes intolerable, is there any link to sexual orientation, is there any link to personality type (introvert/extravert), and is there any link to anxious attachment?
Here are the specific questions:
- Some psychologists believe that in the early stages of romantic love, people can fall into an altered state of mind that feels very different from everyday life. In this mental state, the lovestruck person is overwhelmed by the desire to bond with the person they are infatuated with. Their emotions swing between feeling ecstatic and feeling devastated, depending on whether it seems that their love is returned. Their thoughts are dominated by the other person so much that it is hard to concentrate on other tasks. They crave them so strongly that it almost feels like an addiction. Do you think you have ever experienced this mental state yourself? (Yes or No)
- Has this experience ever caused you so much emotional distress that it was hard to enjoy life? (Yes or No)
- How would you describe your sexual orientation? (Heterosexual, Homosexual, Bisexual, Other, Prefer not to say)
- Would you describe yourself as an introvert (someone who prefers spending time alone to socializing with many people) or an extrovert (someone who prefers socializing with friends to being alone)? (Introvert, Extrovert, Not sure)
- Some people feel anxious about their romantic relationships. They seek frequent reassurance that their partner still loves them. They spend a lot of time worrying about the security of their relationship. Small disagreements with their partner can feel like a big threat. They seek a lot of intimacy and want to spend as much time as they can with their partner. Do you think you have this attachment style? (Yes, No, Not sure)
I then sent it to 1500 people and waited patiently.
Results
OK. Let’s cut to the chase. How common is limerence?
67% of men and 61% of women answered “yes” to question one.
Of all the people who answered yes to question 1, 50% also answered “yes” to question 2
So, in my survey, overall prevalence for limerence was 64% and those who had it so bad as to be full on person addiction is 32% of the total population. Quite a lot higher than the old 5% guess-timate.
Next up was sexual orientation. Here, the bisexuals really excelled themselves. Here are the raw numbers on the % for each orientation that also answered yes to question 1:
- Heterosexual = 66%
- Homosexual = 61%
- Bisexual = 71%
- Other = 57%
- PNTS = 54%
Likewise for introvert versus extravert:
- Introvert = 61%
- Extravert = 71%
Another surprise. When asked in an open population, the extraverts “win”! That does suggest that the previous survey was biased towards introverts (rather than limerence being an introvert condition).
Finally, for people with different attachments, how many are also limerents?
- Anxious = 79%
- Not anxious = 55%
- Not sure = 52%
Oof! The anxious among us really do suffer limerence more commonly (and maybe more powerfully), but even for those without anxious attachment style, the limerents are still a slim majority.
Confounding factors
These raw numbers are interesting to see, but obviously need context. I’m not going to go into the full analysis at this stage because it’ll be even more unwieldy than this already long blog – I may write this up for publication, or post a full breakdown of all the numbers on the site when I have the time. That said, there are some important confounding factors that need to be considered to understand the context.
Of all the variations seen, contingency tests (with correction for multiple comparisons) suggest that the difference between men and women is not significant, but the differences in sexual orientation, extraversion and anxious attachment are.
For those not so familiar with statistical tests, what this means is that the 61% versus 67% outcome for men versus women is probably just due to chance (when picking people at random there’s always a chance you’ll get a difference in % that isn’t actually due to anything other than sampling variation). In contrast, the >70% scores in the other categories are so different that it’s unlikely they could just be due to randomness – they are probably real differences.
The next big confounding factor is the completion rate. Fully 80% of people who started the survey did not finish it.
My strong suspicion is that non-limerents would be more likely to find the survey irritating and/or intrusive and so abandon before the end. So, that would bias towards more limerents completing it.
The next confounding factor is that both bisexuals and anxiously attached people were noticeably over-represented in the sample. 15% of all respondents were bisexual, and 41% of all respondents were anxiously attached. These numbers are a lot higher than the US census results for bisexuality (about 4.4%) and typical estimates for anxious attachment (about 20-25% of the population).
So, despite the best efforts of sampling randomly, there is undeniable bias in the estimates from this approach. I’m not too disheartened, though. I think we can make some pretty strong conclusions based on sensible inference of what the weaknesses in this data set are.
Conclusion
So, how common is limerence? Given the over-representation of anxious and bisexual people in the survey, and given their tendency to more commonly experience limerence, I would say that the overall raw number of 64% is probably weighted high.
My best estimate, based on these numbers and the other surveys and previous guesses, is that about 50-60% of the general population has experienced the altered state of mind of limerence at some point in their lives. Of those, half have had it so bad that they found it hard to enjoy life.
It looks like Tennov was right. There really are two tribes, and it turns out they are pretty well equal in size.
That means that for any person you start to feel the glimmer for, there’s a 50:50 chance they could reciprocate with mutual limerence, and a 50:50 chance they’ll think you’re a lunatic.
Maybe those odds for finding your unicorn aren’t so long after all…
Yes! Great job
DR. L! I’m so excited! I do believe that there are a lot more limerents than we think . Love is universal and everyone falls in love at least once in their life time. And most of the people get hurt while in the search for love at one point or the other. They’re just not talking or admitting it. It’s a very personal thing. And the term LIMERENCE is not widely know or understood, not even by psychology. Don’t be surprised of the higher numbers in the future…
Have a great weekend.
Dear Dr L,
I am excited too. Perhaps when one describes their attachment style as ‘anxious’, they are more likely to be in the 50% that “suffers”.
Nisor’s comment is a good one about lots of people having at least one love + devastating heartbreak story. It would be so interesting to hear about whether among the 50% limerence sufferers, there are two tribes, one that has had a single devastating episode and another that has multiple episodes, the so-called ‘life long limerents’. I put myself in the former category but recognise that the propensity for limerence had been there all along.
By the way I am an ISFJ-A, so not the usual MB personality type.
Thank you for sharing your preliminary results!
Hi Bewitched,
I’m a ISFJ also!
Have a wonderful weekend.
Ah well, now I know why reading your responses and comments (incl to other people ) is so comforting to me. So its not surprising at all. You too Nisor, have a lovely weekend X
Thank you for posting the numbers. I guess my question would be, as a follow up to questions 1 and 2: How long have they felt the addiction-like feelings and how long have these feelings interfered with their lives?
Some of the LEs on here (and ones I’ve experienced) have gone on a long time. Not a matter of, for example, months but years. I’m guessing, but I bet the average person who answered yes to questions 1 and 2 did not have a long-term LE. I just don’t see the average respondent becoming limerent for years. Limerents hang on for a long time and it takes a long time to get over the limerence. I see the average person moving on lot more quickly.
Agreed, Marcia
This my question also. I can’t imagine there are 30% people out there that have experienced what I am experiencing right now. It’s has to be a lot lower.
Also, how many people have felt ‘bad’ limerence for an extended period for people they know they cannot have a romantic relationship with. I.E. how many people can’t move on from someone within a reasonable amount of time due to their addiction/obsession.
Long story but I have had what I would consider an active LE since the first time I met my LO almost 35 years ago. I have not seen her in nearly 33 years.
She knew how I felt and I tried to say goodbye the last time I saw her. She said it didn’t need to be goodbye which was pretty much a life sentence for me, as she basically didn’t take my calls after that. This was before ghosting was a term 🙂
Nisor and I have spoken a lot about my situation. We seem to share the most similar situations but where hers kicked in after a long time mine has been relatively active the entire time with me generally thinking about my LO is some fashion or another. The thoughts have changed over that time ranging from thoughts of seeing each other and something happening to just seeing her again to figure out why she cut off contact the way she did. Could have just accepted goodbye.
So I am probably one of the long term corner cases.
I agree with Speed, I feel like that number is high also. I feel that I am unique in the way LE has transpired. Overall it’s just been very depressing and extremely taxing on my emotions. Even though because it’s LO, I somehow make peace with it.
The only person that came close to to resembling an LE was a CoWorker from a job I had right out of high school. Even though it never worked out. I was sad when she broke things off but not torn like the way LO makes me feel. I think I was curious for a long time what she was up to but it never resembled anything like limerence.
I just can’t imagine anyone even wanting to be limerent again after it happening once. At least in a way it has effected me. I understand we all are different in the way we relate to others. Yet limerence, to the degree of how it has messed with my psyche, is not something I ever want to ever feel again. For anyone.
Hi dr L,
Have you ever thought of the connexion between limerence and ADHD ? The two seem to be linked to the same dopamine and reward pathways. ADHD people are known to have trouble controlling their intrusive thoughts. In my personal case, limerence has been the trigger but the core problem was ADHD and it helped me a lot to realize this to overcome limerence. Would be happy to elaborate further ! Thank you for your work.
PS: ADHD prevalence is is the 3-5% ballpark to relate to this post.
Hi Dr.L, thanks for sharing the results. The 80% drop out rate is very high and maybe not surprising if people simply don’t relate to the theme. It could really skew the results. I would be interested to know how the ‘drop outs’ answered question 1 and maybe 2 even if they didn’t complete the survey. Or do you only get the results from those who completed all questions.
Agree Imho, that 80% dropouts is very interesting. If they completed questions one and two and said yes to both that will still give a clue on who’s limerent or not. Point to consider?
The bisexual percentage is interesting. Is it because attraction to both genders doubles the rate of limerence or is it just a coincidence?
Taking the test, via reading this post, I answered yes to all four. At least for me the huge tendency to limerence is my anxious attachment. We are at almost 25 years married and I still panic when she’s not in the bed if I wake up in the middle of the night. This morning I was clinging to her physically just so that I knew she was there. (But than physical touch is my love language too.) Every woman I got emotionally attached to I have been anxious about. “She’s out of my league.” “She’s too good for me.” “She’s going to find someone better at some point.” “You might as well face the music.”
The extrovert stat is interesting too. As an introvert ISFJ it’s not surprising for me to internalize everything she did. Overthink every thing I said and every thing she said. I overthink when I go to church. “Did I say the wrong thing?” But it is interesting, at least for those that finished the survey that many more were extroverted over introverted.
It may be a bias but I always assumed extroverted people had better social skills and so therefore would be less susceptible to limerence. Being that the track record, at least for us male limerents, is younger and unavailable (mostly) women that it tends to afflict us out of not knowing how to healthy move forward with a relationship with LO if that is possible.
Either way, interesting results. Maybe I am a bit cynical but how can you just not answer 5 questions? Ahh that’s the old curmudgeon in me talking. You kids and your damned Xboxs! *old man yells at cloud*
This is also consistent with Feeney & Noller’s 1990 study: https://limerence.fandom.com/wiki/Feeney_%26_Noller_1990
My first initial reaction was, wow that’s high!
But after thinking about it, maybe it’s not.
Speaking as someone that fell into Limerence for the first time in middle age I figure anything can happen, especially us with anxious attachment styles.
I’m not suggesting every limerent has that but lets also consider OCD and ADHD, I suggest some of us have a sprinkling of at least one of those. Let me be clear SOME OF US. I certainly do not want to make assumptions here.
And maybe some of us are just detached and lonely.
What kind of boggles my mind is why Limerence is so intrusive and in some cases long lasting.
I have mild OCD and I’m also sure I have mild ADHD, so I do exhibit obsessive thoughts/behavior for certain things, always have. Never anything so bad that it hindered my life though.
But Limerence was a whammy lol
But getting back to the percentages, is it really that high?
Don’t we put on a brave face and smile like there is nothing burning a hole inside of us when we go to work or see friends or out and about in public?
I do. Everything is just dandy on the outside.
So just remember, that smiling stranger you smile back at crossing the street may be longing for their LO just as you are.
Just my take on it guys.
I have a very bad OCD, that has run through my life whether in LE or not; I think it made my LE rumination worse…. With meditation, it’s getting a bit better since OCD stuck energy gets circulated by meditative, powerful Qi…
“So just remember, that smiling stranger you smile back at crossing the street may be longing for their LO just as you are.“
I can attest it’s true. When in the high/giddy state of LE, which could not be shared with anyone else, I made acquaintances and friends to have a crush on me, which embarrassed them when they tried to act on their emotions, unrecognized by my altered mental state for LO…
Hi Snow!
Do you think our OCD has to do with our Narc upbringing?
My therapist thinks it’s 50% inherited 50% childhood conditioning.
It’s a coping mechanism for sure.
I have started meditating! My mind bee bops all over the place right now, but it’s a start.
I agree, when I was in the giddy state of my LE I attracted men to me.
Huh? It was weird! It was like I was a magnet.
That’s what happens when you feel on top of the world I guess!
Hi Anna,
I don’t know where my OCD comes from, but suspects it’s from our Narc parent’s behaviors. If it is neural wiring, then inheritance makes sense, too. I deduce now, if one is engaged in rumination of some fantasies at a young age, she could forget her “dire” reality for the time being. After a while, the rumination became an effective “escape”, then the young brain develops accordingly.
I think when we are in limerence high — on the top of the world, we might carry that halo radiating unknown, invisible magnetic or seductive rays that arose men or even dogs and horses hormone…
Please be prepared that to get into a focused, meditative mental state takes a long time and disciplines. Go easy with yourself, don’t get discouraged. If you can, going to Vipassana (totally students-donation based) retreat would help “shut down” our busy mind in any of its retreat centers. I’ve been there 3 times and also served as a volunteer.
Here is the information: https://www.dhamma.org/en/schedules/schtorana
Canadian Centres:
Egbert, ON (Dhamma Torana)
Merritt, BC (Dhamma Surabhi)
Lake Cowichan, BC (Dhamma Modana)
Montebello, Quebec (Dhamma Suttama)
Youngstown, Alberta (Dhamma Karuna)
You sound in a better mood, I’m happy for you, Anna.
DrL: Can you tell us more about OCD’s origin or development, from a neuroscience point of view? I only know it’s a part of cptsd, like limerence.
Anna,
This video clip might be helpful to us with Narc parent
https://youtu.be/yEFTdX8fBOo?si=fOvf8AfofSJcw99H — 4 ways to TORTURE the Narcissist | STOICISM
@ Snowpheonix,
Sometimes I just want to throw caution to the wind and try and contact historical LO. Though I don’t know if she would answer, and I’m bound by the code of NC!
I don’t know…. I need something to make me come alive!😥
**Torturing a narcissist may not be a good idea. They can be very destructive, and they have long memories from my experience.
***You tube – “To live with ‘what is'” Krishnamurti. (sorry couldn’t supply the link).
@Crego,
I understand the urge to contact a historical LO, but one needs to question within: what’s the purpose? — a simple curiosity? A tiny hope to reconnect? A subtle expression of the lingering love for LO? An adventure to fell “alive”? Then ask yourself: “how am I going to deal with LO’s rejection/silence, it’s going to happen 99.99% of the chance?” — a Stoic masterful skill!
I’ve been a rule-breaker since 5 yrs, but always bound by laws. Without knowing Dalai Lama’s words, “rules are made to be broken”, I was often dying-curious to try it out, while preparing to face possible worst consequences. This whole process of treating life (even just an imagination inside the mind) like a continuous unpredictable adventure sometimes made me feel more alive, even though I chickened out in the end un-actualizing my rule-breaking plans. I think I have a writer’s mind — anything can and is allowed to happen in a story!
I don’t think you can judge a video clip by its title. I was curious about the Stoic way how to deal with Narcissists, and found out I was mistaken by my previous assumption, like yours. It actually requires calmness, confidence and wisdom, including peaceful NC.
I’ll check out the Krishnamurti clip later. Thanks.
yes, I engaged in fantasies as a young child, it was safe there.
My OCD started at a young age too, anyway to cope with the disfunction at home.
Alternate reality was better than hiding in the closet.
Thanks for the info on the meditation centers
Egbert ON is just a short distance from Toronto where I am
I going to look into it
Mood is ok! Very busy with work and my days are good as long as I can consciously stay out of the Limerence groove.
Rumination is a bitch! lol
Hope you are well too!
Hi Anna, I relate to your posts very much. I have one of the OCDs – as there are different subtypes (not diagnosed formally but there is no question).
I’m researching if CBT can be of help.
I’m interested if anyone else on lovely LwL community has tried CBT techniques and if it helped limerence, OCD etc
Hi Imho!
I am truly convinced that Limerence stems from either a) Attachment Style
b) a form of OCD (or something related) or c) a combination of those things.
Granted, it’s just my opinion but the more I read from some of our posters here and my ongoing therapy sessions, it seems there’s a connection.
I am totally interested in CBT therapy and have been reading much about it.
I’m on a journey to get to the roots of my “Obsessions” and forge a path forward.
Limerence seemed to be the straw the broke the camels back for me and as I still got a long way to go, I am actually grateful for it.
I’m going to talk to my therapist about CBT and I will keep you posted!
I am currently in the experimentation phase with myself regarding limerence. I have been setting up boundaries for myself, and working within them to see if I can have stable coworker friendships with men who I find attractive, or would normally be limerent for. I have been having some interesting conversations with the latest one, and I am greatly enjoying it. He asks me a lot of questions and has said he is trying to “figure me out.” However, knowing that we will not exchange phone numbers or have any sort of additional digital communication makes me feel sort of protected from potential limerent experiences. I could be wrong; it’s still an experiment. The pros are that I still get a small sense of giddiness, it’s fun, and I get some of the perks of limerence without the intrusive thoughts or the guilt of being in the throes of limerence. The cons are that I still have a mild crush, and it could potentially grow. But I don’t want it to.
Limerent Nurse
Funny enough I never had any outside of work contact with her when she was on the job. I have even had actual casual outside of work contact with other female co-workers and nothing came of it. But with her I let a crush grow into full blown limerence. Where I wasn’t in my right mind. I often think that limerence, at least for me, isn’t something I have a chance of developing by “dipping my toes in the water”. I don’t have an apprehension of interacting with other female co-workers like I avoid casinos out of fear of gambling addiction. I think it was just her. She was the unicorn. I don’t fear another woman can/could do what she did to me.
Hey Adam,
I feel the same as you and the way I interpret it is: I am still not “over” my LO. And so I cant imagine getting involved in another one as my limerent energy is still all tied up in current LO.
@Adam and Bewitched,
Isn’t it interesting how everyone has a different take or “flavor” of limerence? I do hope Adam that this was your one-and-only. And that you won’t feel the pain or sting for much longer. But my second one seemed even worse than my first 😕 I felt like I fell I to these experiences, and once I was in deep it was hard to stay afloat. Now that I am in a better headspace post-limerence, I really want to make sure I don’t get caught in it again. However, I don’t want to avoid/ignore certain men just because they are gorgeous and hold my triggers, either…. I am feeling good about my boundaries so far.
And Bewitched, I could never think this rationally if I were in the midst of an actual limerent experience. It’s only after the fact that I can’t even start comprehending another person. This time, I am working on comprehending my triggers rather than thinking it’s just a “soulmate” experience. If Adam’s is a “hero complex,” then mine is a “soulmate complex.” 💙
I think the confidence that I have in not having to go through another episode of limerence comes from the fact that she checked off literally every rescue trigger in me. I have had rescue triggers before with other women in my life, even some of my wife’s family. But she checked them all off. She was in such a bad place in life both personally and professionally. On top of that she put on a brave front. But as I got to know her and she shared things in her life with me I could see that she felt hopeless. She was so alone with a broken marriage, the loss of one daughter (she decided to live with the father) and a family that was less than supportive of her. That is a lot to take all at once.
I don’t think I have a high risk of running into another woman that will tick off all those boxes again. And even if I did, as memorable, for the lack of a better word, as this limerence has been I have the confidence that I will recognize if it did start again and be able to step back and not indulge in it.
Bewitched, I am hoping for us both that we will finally be able to pull all the way through and get to the other side with our sanity in tact. I know I am doing better, as in, if something reminds me of her it is in and out of my head as fast as I can manage. No lingering.
Limerent Nurse, your predicament with your triggers is probably far more vast than mine, so I imagine that you will have a more difficult time than I to suppress those triggers in the future when they hit you. But remember LwL is always her for you for any support you need.
Dear Adam & Limerent Nurse,
I think my LO was special, for sure. He validated me like no-one had in a decade. Also, I was feeling so emotionally depleted when I came across him with no resilience at all, that I think that he was the right person in the right place at the right time to have this effect on me. What do I learn from this? That, yes, the glimmer and recognising my triggers is important, but so is my emotional state. So in order to not fall again, I need to stay emotionally healthy. That means never again letting myself get into a stressed-out depleted and worn out state, no matter what work or family stresses are thrown in my path. Adam, maybe you can relate?
Limerent Nurse, I am not sure how to handle your triggers while acknowledging said co-workers (plural!) gorgeousness. Partly that’s because my LO is not ‘gorgeous’, haha. He is merely cute.
Have a lovely evening.
I think my version is maybe most similar to Bewitched. An out of the blue supersonic experience for me. Its funny you use the word ‘resilience’ as this is a key theme word for me!
Of course with what I know now I would be more guarded for a future LE. But that is still far off/ unlikely ( hopefully never) as I also still try to shake off this one, which I haven’t emerged from yet.
Hi Limerent nurse ( aka man magnet) enjoy the attention and frisson, however, do take care not to succumb in an unexpected moment or if you are under stress or low ebb you may be susceptible.
Hello Anna, nice to see your message. Our thread has been a bit taken on by another theme – which is absolutely ok, but just hope you find this.
Yes I agree with you on some key triggers for limerence. I’m trying to learn about all these different aspects. Im not sure on my attachment type, I need to research a bit more. I always thought certain introvert types on Myers Briggs scale are more prone, but Dr. Ls survey says extroverts are equally prone which is a real surprise to me.
I have never engaged a therapist so far, which is a bit of a regret that I should have done so a year ago at least.
I did some basic CBT today, just reframing negative thoughts to more positive. It did help.
Yes please keep us posted on the outcomes/insights from discussions with your therapist on CBT. I look forward to the learning. Thanks
Thinking about this blog post, and the repost today of an older post about “two tribes” (which apparently has comments disabled”.
In my view seeing the world as limerents and non-limerents is wrong. Certainly there are people who have experienced limerence and those who have not, but calling them limerents and non-limerents makes it sound pre-determined or innate.
Rather, I think we may have some innate characteristics that may more or less predispose us to experiencing limerence, but it is almost surely a continuum rather than a binary. Those characteristics combine with certain circumstances to send us into a limerent episode. Someone who has not experienced limerence yet may still experience it in the future if those certain circumstances arise. Calling those people non-limerents misses this.
In my personal experience, I believe I am moderately, not strongly, predisposed to limerence. It took very special circumstances, poor decisions on my part, and a unique individual (although we all believe our LOs are unique!). There hasn’t been any LO 2, 3 , or 4 in the 25 years since.
@Sleepless.
You have some interesting thoughts. Maybe we need to refer to the two tribes as “active limerents” and “dormant limerents” to acknowledge the fact that non-limerents have the potential to become limerent and self-professed limerents can cease to be limerent in certain contexts? 😁
I personally believe (with no proof whatsoever) that limerence is caused by constellations of genes that flick on/off in response to specific stimuli.
Honestly, I think the two tribes theory is most helpful for people who are in committed relationships, and one spouse is limerent and one spouse is not limerent. For example, let’s say there’s a husband who loves his wife but isn’t limerent for his wife. Let’s say the wife loves her husband and she’s ALSO limerent for her husband. She can’t understand why her husband doesn’t love her with the same emotional intensity that she loves him, despite the fact he very obviously does love her. The reason the husband can’t match his wife’s intensity is he’s non-limerent in the sense he won’t experience obsession in his lifetime or non-limerent in the sense that maybe his own limerence for his wife has already faded due to time.
The above is the story of my parents’ marriage. I feel that my mother could never forgive my father for not bringing the right level of emotional intensity to the table. But maybe his limerence just faded faster than hers did, and she remained stuck in a profoundly painful infatuation (for her own mate, no less) for some weird reason? There really are people out there trapped in nightmarish obsession for their significant other, and my mother was one such woman I believe. (I.e. one’s SO and one’s LO are actually the same human being). This theory would just explain so much about my mother, all her years of inexplicable unhappiness, etc. 🤔
Good point. I’ve had LE’s all my life (hence the name), but we have people come on here confused by their first LE ever, middle aged +.
Serial Limerent
“people come on here confused by their first LE ever, middle aged +.”
You can say that again!
Definitely very confusing to the “way over the middle aged +”… not only confusing but disturbing!
Best wishes
@Adam
I analyzed the two episodes I had in the last 8 years and realized that for me it was not a “one-off” thing. It happened twice, and therefore could happen again. Plus, it happened before I was married too, but in that context it just looked like dating, or serial monogamy. So, I am definitely prone to the cycle — that’s why I have to find my safe boundaries. Glad I have you all and this site for accountability 💙
I can’t say “don’t worry” because I don’t know if this experiment will work yet. But it did for me with my first coworker/friend, and I am hoping it will with this new guy friend, too. Just gotta reign it in and keep things light. I may think they are beautiful, but everyone else probably doesn’t give them a second glance.
Limerence is turning out to be a very tricky subject to study it would seem…
I think both “tribes” comprising 50% of the population makes perfect sense to me from a species-wide perspective. I.e. half the population is naturally limerent and half the population is naturally non-limerent. Every limerent is meant to pair off with a non-limerent. Two fellow limerents can of course fall in love, but their passion is likely to fizzle out fast. Two fellow non-limerents can of course fall in love, but might be puzzled by the pedestrian nature of their love story, when compared to the love stories of others. They might assume “the spark” just isn’t there…
Of course, the problem with my species-wide idea is that not everyone becomes limerent at the exact same time e.g. immediately after puberty, when hormones make one ripe for mating and/or reproduction. There are always going to be people who mature slowly/pair-bond later in life. Also, there’s the problem of people experiencing limerence multiple times throughout the human lifespan. Multiple limerences throughout the lifespan means limerence doesn’t facilitate species-wide mating stability. It suggests romantic love is in fact this fragile, inherently unstable thing.
I think, for some people, such as myself, limerence itself may determine both sexual orientation and attachment style – but only for the duration of the limerence. With limerence at an end, I find myself reporting a different sexual orientation and a different attachment style. For example, my orientation during limerence was homosexual (because my LO was of the same sex) but my orientation post-limerence is asexual (because I can honestly say I’m not feeling any grand passion right now for anybody). My attachment style during limerence would be some kind of anxious (anxious-avoidant maybe?) but my attachment style post-limerence is secure or just avoidant-avoidant i.e. the desire for social acceptance doesn’t dominate my thoughts or heavily influence my moods/behaviour.
I think, during the altered state of limerence, it would be fair to say that I was in “mate-seeking mode” unconsciously. However, just because I found myself in mate-seeking mode for an extended period of time, that doesn’t mean I found a suitable mate, or appreciated any of the offers that came my way. (Now I’m really sounding like a curmudgeon to rival the other curmudgeons on this site – curmudgeons who aren’t real curmudgeons, if you ask me. But I digress). 😉
During limerence, I was “blind” to emotional intensity in other people. (Emotional intensity didn’t bug me. I was completely oblivious to its existence. I was too busy being absorbed in my own inner world). Post-limerence, I find I am intolerant or “allergic” to emotional intensity in other people. I feel people want me to give them something I don’t have, and I feel like I am a bad person for not being able to meet others’ needs.
I feel right now i have the ability to love people, but not the ability to obsess over people, and my lack of obsession doesn’t always go down well. (My mother is obsessed with me. I think she may have been secretly in love with me my whole life, which explains her odd possessiveness. I love my mum but I’m not obsessed with her. She resents me for not loving her enough. I feel “subtle resentment of LO” is a symptom of limerence. I honestly had no idea my mother has always been “smitten” with me, but her intense love for me feels “life-denying” rather than “life-enhancing’).
During limerence, I pretended to be an extrovert, and probably behaved in ways that might have misled other people into believing I’m extroverted. Now, post-limerence, my extreme introversion is once again manifesting itself, and I’m really making no attempt to hide it. If I don’t have to dazzle an LO, then I see no point in being some attention-seeking social animal. The peacock has gone back to being a wombat. 🤔
If we’re giving people questionnaires, we need them to fill them out while limerent and then ten years later when they’re no longer limerent. I think limerence does alter some people’s personalities beyond recognition. I feel many limerents are in an incomplete/ongoing state of metamorphosis. We can’t make definitive statements about people still in the process of self-transformation. 😁
My answers to questionnaire would be as follows:
(1) Yes – to other-worldly altered state
(2) Yes – to extreme feelings of distress
(3) Unsure of sexual orientation. Was actually hoping limerence would solve that riddle for me. Limerence = all one’s sexual/emotional energies concentrated on one individual, or one’s idea/ideal of one individual.
(4) Introvert masquerading as an extrovert, due to extreme social pressure of living in an extroverted world designed for extroverts. Also, delusionally believed my LO would “love me” if I was an extrovert.
(5) Only anxious when infatuated. When not infatuated, very secure and stable and “boring”. Post-limerence, find romantic love ridiculous as a concept and can’t believe anyone experiences what I just experienced. 😇
@ Sammy, “Also, there’s the problem of people experiencing limerence multiple times throughout the human lifespan. Multiple limerences throughout the lifespan means limerence doesn’t facilitate species-wide mating stability.”
In hindsight, I’ve found my limerence patterns to be very logical and extremely correlated with biology (if I understood what you meant by “species-wide mating stability”). I’ve experienced limerence 3 times: in puberty (at 14-15), at 30 and now in my forties. So based only on my own experience (sample size: 1, female), I would say L is very much related to hormones and biology.
At 30 the hormones are saying: “Now! It’s time to start making babies if you haven’t yet!”. Then in the forties they’re saying “Last chance! Get it while you can!” Mother nature is friendly that way. The hormones haven’t entered the 21st century or heard about overpopulation, so they also encourage 14-year-olds to procreate.
Of course, for men, after the initial emergence of L in puberty, nature is not as restrictive, so I suppose L can re-emerge at any time…
@Trifles.
“In hindsight, I’ve found my limerence patterns to be very logical and extremely correlated with biology (if I understood what you meant by “species-wide mating stability”). I’ve experienced limerence 3 times: in puberty (at 14-15), at 30 and now in my forties. So based only on my own experience (sample size: 1, female), I would say L is very much related to hormones and biology.”
Well, human beings certainly aren’t machines, so any mathematical model to explain mating would have inbuilt limitations. However, the perfect narrative for humans would be … limerent meets a good match, feelings are reciprocated, bond is formed, limerent never falls into limerence again.
However, people do experience limerence again after pair-bonding with a good match, so the biology sometimes works against human planning.
The fact you experienced three LEs in puberty is interesting. What is the brain thinking? The first two LOs were “duds”, and one must keep following the cycle to find a non-dud? Or is adolescence the time to fall in love (non-seriously) a few times as a kind of valuable learning experience? I’m not blaming any human participants. I’m just saying the biology isn’t tidy…
Woman over 50 experience limerence. So it’s not just about baby-making. Maybe there are unmet emotional needs. Maybe it’s about grief. Maybe there’s stuff from the past one wants to revisit. Or maybe some people feel that passion enhances life, and passion can be experienced at any age.
Some people think that when the limerence is over, the marriage is over. That logic doesn’t have to be true. However, in emotional terms, it’s understandable how people reach that conclusion e.g. if limerence has been this big, all-involving drama and that big drama formed the basis of the marriage. Some husbands and wives probably feel like they don’t know how to relate to each other once all the “games” have been played out.
I think it’s normal for most human beings to want to “lock down a mate” in their early 20s. (Not necessarily marriage, but some kind of commitment/partnership/sexual exclusivity deal). I kind of missed the early-20s boat because I was a bit socially awkward and didn’t realise what was going on around me. “The rush to settle down” perplexed me. 😜
Sammy, I actually meant that I’ve experienced three LEs in my life, the first one at 14. But I’m sure some experience several in puberty.
Continuing with the biology talk… Good point about women in their 50s experiencing limerence. I’m sure that biology and hormones are somehow at play there too, but not sure how/why… Science hasn’t been that interested in women’s hormonal changes in midlife, so who knows what all the effects of hormones are at that age.
And which comes first? Does contact with a perfect LO put the hormones into overdrive? Or the other way around? It’s the chicken and egg problem.
“However, people do experience limerence again after pair-bonding with a good match, so the biology sometimes works against human planning.”
Definitely. One might have chosen their SO in a non-limerent, more rational state of mind. As for why certain LOs glimmer… Nature wants diverse genes. My two adult LOs have probably held the perfect genetic match for me: tall, dark and handsome. 😆 Normally I would’ve stayed away from their type. In fact, when I first laid eyes on them, I thought “Oh cr@p, I have to do business with that handsome SOB? He’s probably full of himself.” And then: “I’m in trouble…”
“However, the perfect narrative for humans would be … limerent meets a good match, feelings are reciprocated, bond is formed, limerent never falls into limerence again.”
I don’t think that’s the perfect narrative from nature’s pov though… Survival of the species would require more and genetically diverse offspring.
@Trifles.
“And which comes first? Does contact with a perfect LO put the hormones into overdrive? Or the other way around? It’s the chicken and egg problem.”
In my experience, hormones only go into overdrive AFTER initial encounter with LO i.e. the Glimmer.
Before the Glimmer, one probably has some hormones floating around in one’s system, depending on one’s stage of life, but those hormones aren’t in overdrive. It wouldn’t make sense for human hormones to go crazy in the absence of a potential mate – even if that potential mate is only an idea in the limerent’s head, and not an actual boyfriend/girlfriend.
Prior to limerence, however, I think one already has a “LO archetype” e.g. soulmate, damsel in distress. This archetype may be drawn from life, fiction, or biology. Also, one has the desire for a relationship with someone that’s deep and intense in an emotional way.
The limerent yearns to find a special someone, and wants that special someone to recognise the specialness of the bond too. This is the emotional component of limerence, and why limerence is so much more than just physical attraction. The two parties need to be drawn to each other not just physically but also emotionally. Because this kind of animal attraction is relatively rare, people tend to guard it fiercely when they find it. I.e. limerence-based bonds probably breed more sexual jealousy/insecurity than other bonds.
“As for why certain LOs glimmer… Nature wants diverse genes. My two adult LOs have probably held the perfect genetic match for me: tall, dark and handsome. 😆”
Maybe Nature is essentially unfair? Nature makes some people prettier than others, and pretty people are unfortunately more desirable in the dating market.
A very beautiful woman, for example, with a vibrant personality, would likely become the LO of many more men than her plain-looking sister. A charismatic man would attract many female admirers while a man with a bland personality wouldn’t.
Basically, highly attractive people can choose from a much bigger pool of potential mates, because so many people find them desirable. Does this mean attractive people should learn to flirt responsibly in the same way all adults should drink responsibly?
Maybe we should ask attractive people to refrain from flirting with people they don’t truly like? But that would be impossible… 😆
“I don’t think that’s the perfect narrative from nature’s pov though… Survival of the species would require more and genetically diverse offspring.”
I guess one way of justifying limerence is to say: “I’m just enriching the gene pool with my three delightful baby daddies!” But that’s an impractical way to live for many people who don’t have big bank accounts and an army of nannies, since babies need to be raised as well as produced.
Also, one might like to pass on some kind of moral wisdom to one’s babies. Also, one might like to introduce the grandkids someday to their still-married biological grandparents and explain a beautifully clear family tree to the same. Nobody wants to be accidentally dating a close relative they didn’t know was a close relative… 🙄
I think limerence makes it very hard to reconcile one’s feelings with the kind of morals that one would like to espouse, but it’s important from the point of view of mental health than a genuine reconciliation eventually be reached.
I’m not being preachy here, however – I took over 25 years to reconcile what I feel with what makes the most sense to me morally. (There was a huge gap between what I believed to be morally right and what – for a time – appeared to me to be biologically predetermined and hence unalterable and exempt from criticism).
Actually, during limerence, I believed that all males must be “gay” in the sense that all males must experience ecstasy around other males. This was simply because I experienced ecstasy around other males, and I assumed that my experience must be normal because life had given no reason not to believe I was normal. Of course, my belief here is wrong. Bitter experience and extensive research have taught me that most adult men don’t experience ecstasy around other males. Most adult men either experience ecstasy around a certain type of woman, or they don’t experience ecstasy at all. 😜
Limerence can make one a little too self-righteous in one’s opinions. Limerence can make one believe totally irrational things, and quarrel with people who don’t instantly embrace the same irrational beliefs. (Just look at all the endless drama on social media).
Limerence can make one temporarily doubt/forgot whatever moral standards one would probably like to pass on to one’s children. 🙂
Sammy, well put about the emotional and moral sides of limerence. I agree wholeheartedly with you on those. In my comment I was concentrating solely on biology to try to understand that as something that forms the basis of limerence (the bottom of the limerence pyramid if you will).
“This is the emotional component of limerence, and why limerence is so much more than just physical attraction. The two parties need to be drawn to each other not just physically but also emotionally.”
That’s been my experience also. It’s all fun and games (i.e. you could still get out) until the emotional side kicks in, whether from a perceived or real emotional connection.
That’s pretty interesting about believing all men would feel ecstatic around other men because that was how you felt. I suppose that’s due to limerence making us feel bolder and hyperfocusing us on our mission, ignoring any irritating facts that would derail us from it.
You said in another comment: “I think my mission in life is to prove to myself I’m not crazy. 🤣” That’s a great mission! That’s also the reason I’m here on LwL at the moment, rambling about biology. Later on I might advance to the other, more intricate aspects of limerence…
@Trifles.
“It’s all fun and games (i.e. you could still get out) until the emotional side kicks in, whether from a perceived or real emotional connection.”
In my experience, limerence just automatically turns sour if it’s allowed to go on too long, and no clear reciprocation happens. It’s kind of like “you must use this product before the expiry date”. Maybe the brain just can’t sustain the high levels of excitement indefinitely and so kind of crashes into a ton of other, less-pleasant emotions?
In other words, if two people are free to act and have feelings for each other, they probably should accelerate the relationship.
On the bright side, when my brain crashed, that was really my cue to reflect on everything about myself I wanted to change. (Literally **cough, cough** everything). Actually, I just wanted to deepen and enrich my pre-existing personality.
I felt an uncanny emotional connection with my LO, but I don’t know if it was built on anything other than wishful thinking. I met him when I was 13 and he was 13 too. I only started to daydream about him heavily when I was 16, just after Christmas holidays. However, as soon as he turned 16, he fell madly in love (very likely limerence) with a girl who was 14, and they instantly got into a relationship.
Four years later, my LO and his LO (the young lady) married. The marriage lasted just over a decade and produced one child. Fascinatingly, in hindsight, there was literally zero time for him to ever be interested in me because as soon as I developed a real interest in him, he developed a real interest in someone else. I never stood a chance. But my brain didn’t want to let go of the fantasy because it felt that it had found someone close to human perfection.
LO didn’t do much to trigger the limerence. He was handsome and well-groomed. He gave me a bit of nice eye contact, but he gave nice contact to everybody. He was randomly kind to me once or twice. He was never unkind to me. I don’t know what the common denominator between us was. Maybe we both felt like outsiders? It always felt like there was some huge unspoken secret between us.
Obviously, my LO’s (hetero)limerence was driven by biology in a very straightforward way e.g. he met someone suitable to marry and have a child with. It’s interesting, though, he and his wife only had one child during an apparently very happy, decade-long marriage, despite being able to afford more. It seems to me that maybe crazy passion and high fertility aren’t necessarily strongly correlated.
His wife eventually left him for another man. Last I heard, he’s single and traumatised. However, I don’t want to reestablish contact with him because I accept that I can never be a true friend to him: my youthful “relationship” with him was a fantasy-based relationship. I really think he’d be grossed out if he learned he’d been my LO. I don’t think he’d want me to feel about him the same way he presumably felt about his ex-wife. That’s just too weird and too difficult to process. Most males don’t like that level of complexity.
“That’s pretty interesting about believing all men would feel ecstatic around other men because that was how you felt. I suppose that’s due to limerence making us feel bolder and hyperfocusing us on our mission, ignoring any irritating facts that would derail us from it.”
Dorothy Tennov said something about this in her book. I.e. because the limerent is experiencing limerence, it’s pretty logical for the limerent to assume the LO is experiencing limerence too. And the limerent treats the limerence as this big secret, right, so it’s pretty hard to set the record straight. I.e. If I’m being secretive about my feelings, maybe my LO is being secretive about his/her feelings too?
Of course, people can experience mutual limerence. Of course, two people can feel ecstasy at the same time and for each other. However, the LO doesn’t always feel the ecstatic responses the limerent is feeling. The limerent may well be “barking up the wrong tree”, as I was, and years can go by before that fact slowly sinks in.
Gay men suffering from limerence would probably greatly overestimate the number of men in a given population who harbour romantic feelings for men, and that’s a bit tragic. Gay men are probably more likely than straight people/lesbians to wind up mooning over someone unsuitable e.g. someone who doesn’t reciprocate. It’s harder when the gay man doesn’t understand his own sexuality, because of social taboos around such discussion.
I think I thought (very unkindly) my straight male friends were lying to me when we talked about sex/relationships. In reality, all they talked about was wanting girlfriends and how hard it was to get girlfriends. I guess depressing can’t-get-a-girlfriend talk WAS an honest reflection of where they were emotionally in their lives, and I just didn’t want to believe them. I thought everyone had these secretive, complicated attachments worthy of a Taylor Swift song. 😁
Sammy,
“I felt an uncanny emotional connection with my LO, but I don’t know if it was built on anything other than wishful thinking.”
That’s one of the mysteries… As the saying goes “the heart wants what it wants” (because no one can explain it). Although some things you can sense by just a person’s energy. In my case, I like to think that I have good intuition about people. But “intuition” is basically reading all the small clues in an instant.
It did take me by surprise how much my LO and I turned out to have in common, once we started getting to know each other through texting. Because when we first started flirting I knew practically nothing about him. …Or would I have found just as much in common with someone else if I had been that interested in finding out? I don’t want to believe that, but I am willing to accept that sometimes the limerent mind plays tricks on us. Maybe I’ll revisit this thought in a few months when I have more distance.
“…limerence just automatically turns sour if it’s allowed to go on too long, and no clear reciprocation happens. It’s kind of like “you must use this product before the expiry date”.”
I knew that very well from my previous LE. And that’s why I was trying to shake myself free at a very early point in the LE. But despite my knowledge of what could and would happen, I still somehow was always drawn back in and let the emotional connection build (hell, I was the one who was pushing for it!).
“I thought everyone had these secretive, complicated attachments worthy of a Taylor Swift song. 😁”
Some people are just as uncomplicated as they say they are. Most of these people are straight men. 😆 Gotta love ’em.
@Trifles.
“Some people are just as uncomplicated as they say they are. Most of these people are straight men. 😆 Gotta love ’em.”
This is a very good point. Speaking strictly from experience, a gay man’s brain pumps out lots of dopamine in response to a seemingly eligible male suitor (the LO). Why the gay man’s brain does this no one knows because it’s not very logical from a mating point of view. (Usually, the purpose of mating is to pass on one’s genetic info).
Does the dopamine production in a gay man’s brain mimic the dopamine production in a heterosexual woman’s brain? I.e. is the same “response” happening in both the brains of gay men and heterosexual women? If we study the brains of one group, can we understand the brains of both groups due to significant overlap?
Social commentator Camille Paglia proposes gay men somehow get caught up in their mother’s Eros. When gay men are young children, there are often “blurred borderlands” between mother and son emotionally. Mother and son are like two different countries, but the border between these two countries is permanently open. Maybe half a dozen provinces are “jointly ruled” by both mother and son.
It’s hard for the son to grow in a masculine direction. It feels natural for the son to stay close to his mother. This might sound like a very cosy and pleasurable state of affairs, and it IS a very cosy and pleasurable state of affairs. However, it is also a painful situation for the son because he feels different from his male peers. Eventually, in adolescence, he’d project his nascent sexuality onto male peers – and, of course, that will lead to inevitable heartache aka rejection. I imagine most teenage boys and most teenage girls are going dopamine-crazy for each other i.e. falling in love with the opposite sex.
There’s this weird imaginative thing going on between mother and son in the boy’s early childhood. The son is his mother’s constant companion and he’s almost his mother’s consort, but in a non-sexual way. Mother and son are very close. Mother and son are very frequently closer than mother and father. The romantic relationship between mother and father has invariably broken down.
I feel the son gains a lot from his extreme closeness to his mother, but he also pays a high price for it. But the mother isn’t to blame for making the son the way he is. It’s the son’s pre-existing differences to other male children e.g. his gentleness, his charm, his softness, that ATTRACTS extra maternal interest and involvement.
There is this limerence-like thing happening between mother and son, and it’s mutual, but I don’t think either mother or son really choose it. To this day, I have a “trauma bond” with my mother, for want of a better term. If I create distance between us, she’ll attempt to pull me back into the super-tight emotional bond, which echoes a lot of people’s experience of limerence. My mother can sense almost telepathically whenever I’m pulling away from her. My mother expects me to tell her everything; of course, I tell her nothing. But even though I tell my mother nothing she knows everything. (She pretends not to know I’m gay. A gay son doesn’t fit her narrative).
It’s not clear whether this blurring of identities in mother and son is caused by heredity or environment. I.e. are gay men already different in terms of their brain structure by the time they come out of the womb? Or are the brains of gay men subtly shaped by early childhood influences, and specifically shaped by enmeshment with mother?
I think gay men are already different in terms of temperament by the time they come out of the womb and the mothers just fall in love with these slightly-different and often very attractive boy babies. The sad thing is these boy babies won’t grow up to be “normal men” aka men who will have romantic relationships with women. It is very painful not to be able to lead a normal life, or even to understand what it feels like to lead a normal life. Not that straight men are particularly big on documenting emotions. (Unless they’re wildly in love with a beautiful woman who’s sending them insane).
I have experienced both straight men and a small number of masculine gay men as uncomplicated, easy-going. I would categorise virtually all of these easy-going men as “non-limerent”. They’re lovely people, but … not what I was expecting. 😉
Sammy, I missed your comment earlier, but commenting on it now (don’t know if you’ll notice it either).
“Social commentator Camille Paglia proposes gay men somehow get caught up in their mother’s Eros.” I hadn’t heard this theory before. And I might be out of line to get into this topic… But on first hearing I’m a little sceptical. Is she claiming “nurture” more than “nature”? I.e. the interaction between mother and son prevents him from “growing in a more masculine direction” (although the reasons for this are related to his genes)? Let me present a competing view. There are also boys/men who are sensitive or otherwise demonstrate “softer” characteristics, who are in fact not gay. Wouldn’t their mother have treated them in the same way in childhood? Also, it would be hard to compare how much attention they got from their mothers compared to other boys. And some/many/most? 😀 straight men are annoyingly close with their mothers, but I’ve found those are the men who make the best partners, because they’ve been raised to respect women. Just thinking out loud here. I sincerely hope you are able to make peace with yourself and your mother. 🙏🏻
@Sammy
My experiences were similar in that limerence can enhanced my personality while in it, at least for me. It made me me feel hyper-sexual, hyper-attractive, hyper-anxious (all secretly) toward the LO … but after the fall out, I go back to normalcy.
It’s not that all those things are bad…
But for my marriage and children, I can’t have that altered state happen again. I must avoid it, especially now that I know these men are just normal men and not my “soulmate.” The risk for me was giving it all up for this amazing person who I felt destined to be with. I admit, I am not that strong. I am very weak under limerence’s spell. So now I put up healthy barriers to avoid it from ever happening again. Too much is at stake.
“My experiences were similar in that limerence can enhanced my personality while in it, at least for me. It made me me feel hyper-sexual, hyper-attractive, hyper-anxious (all secretly) toward the LO … but after the fall out, I go back to normalcy.”
@Limerent nurse.
Yes, yes, yes. So interesting. You just reminded me of the other things I wanted to say.
Post-limerence, I’m experiencing:
(1) A mind that feels abnormally quiet. (Absence of intrusive thoughts maybe?)
(2) A central nervous system that no longer feels like it’s always on high alert.
(3) Libido no longer elevated. (A normalisation of libido perhaps?)
(4) No longer feel guilt/shame regarding sexuality. (Don’t know whether decline in shame/guilt is caused by reduction in intrusive thoughts or by normalising libido, or by a combination of both factors). 🤔
(5) Fewer neurotic ideas about men/women. I.e. much more willing to see BOTH men and women as complex, well-rounded entities with feelings and not just as walking stereotypes.
(6) Living in the present much more, but still sometimes miss the “hyperreality” of limerence i.e. the sensation of living in a dream.
(7) More respectful in relationships, as I’m not treating everything as a game. When I hurt other people’s feelings, I feel pangs of remorse. I realise I can hurt people accidentally because other people don’t necessarily see relationships through the lens of “playing”, but rather, as serious undertakings involving some hefty moral responsibilities.
The one thing that is true of me, however, irrespective of limerence, is that I’m still secretly or openly the most opinionated person in the room. I’m still verbose (evidently). I guess some things never change… 😁😉😆
I had a dream last night. My LO archetype appeared to me. We were lying on the floor, in the middle of a huge group of friends, and watching movies together. At one point in the movie, he turned his face toward my face, and he asked me to explain to him where I thought I stood with him.
I said that I thought he “didn’t want me to touch him physically but he was aware of the fact I was attracted to him romantically”. He said my interpretation of the situation was correct. And then he got up and walked out of the room. I didn’t feel sad when he departed. I stayed put on the floor and continued watching movies with our group of friends. 😜
@Sammy
Yes, yes, yes here too! I am so glad to be on the side of post-limerence where I no longer have the intrusive thoughts, painful, sleepless nights, anxiety and shame of having these feelings for another man. I can recognize the cycle: excitement, anxiety, pain, then normalcy. I have decided the excitement is no longer worth the pain and anxiety. It is clearly cyclical, and not going away. I will always have this. I do prefer the normalcy because it is peaceful 💙 Even if it takes two years to get there!
@Limerent nurse.
“I am so glad to be on the side of post-limerence where I no longer have the intrusive thoughts, painful, sleepless nights, anxiety and shame of having these feelings for another man.”
That is also very interesting…
During one part of limerence, I felt afraid that the uncomfortable feelings would never go away, and my overall physiology was stuck on “broken”. I had a strange desire to escape my own body.
For example, I couldn’t sleep at night due to anxiety. I started sleeping over at friends’ houses, because I was terrified of sleeping in my own bed. I visualised my anxiety as a ball. I kept throwing the imaginary ball away from me, but the ball always bounced back.
I felt as if my brain had somehow become detached from my body, because obviously there was so much activity taking place in my brain. I felt as if I temporarily didn’t inhabit my body. I was just an “observer” in my own life, but my life was stationary, like a car parked in a driveway. My brain was just pretending to go places.
I was never able to just “snap out of limerence”. For me, the feelings faded extremely slowly, and are still in the process of fading. (I’m in the absolute final stages of obsession I’m convinced). When the fading progresses too far, however, I panic and remember the rush at the very beginning of LE. Will I never experience the rush again?
For me, the start of limerence is awesome – hope and excitement.
The end of limerence is pretty decent – a gentle glide to a halt. It’s the middle of limerence that feels scary/oppressive/suffocating. 😜
@Sammy
What’s going on here?! Have you entered my head?! 😉
Yes, the beginning of limerence — and for me the disclosing and reciprocation — are just the highest of highs. But the anxiety is there, too… then when you actually “want” it to end, it takes forever to wait out the feelings, emotions, anxieties…
I remember sitting each morning during my prayer time and just learning to be patient with the process, all the while hoping that “ball of anxiety” or “oppression” or whatever it was would
just slowly unravel. 🐌 It did, and it does, eventually. Never as fast as I want it to, but in it’s own time.
I feel like limerence occupies this weird space in my head. Now that I know about it, I can choose to access it — or not. I am choosing not to start the cogs of limerence in motion. I am literally learning/teaching myself and also letting God show me how to properly interact with men so as to not start the wheel of limerence. I feel responsible to the small amount of control I have in preventing limerence from happening again. 🌟
@Limerent nurse.
“What’s going on here?! Have you entered my head?! 😉”
Nothing sinister going on, let me assure you! 😜
I guess limerence just unfolds in a similar way or feels pretty similar for human beings representing many different demographics?
I’m probably good at describing certain phases of limerence, because I’ve had a lot of time to sit around and think about it. 😇
I think my mission in life is to prove to myself I’m not crazy. 🤣
Poem: Wrong Reason
It is not always the absence of love/
That makes me seem alone.
Often it’s been too much love/
Given to me by the wrong people/
For the wrong reasons /
That keeps me here/
Gladly alone.
Rather than have the life sucked/
Out of me by the violent needs/
Of other minds and bodies.
That does not mean
That I’m not grateful.
But I am sad.
Not to be able to put my arms
Around those who truly loved me
And give them something more
Than polite indifference.
Oh, how I tried.
I think they should know
I tried.
And I choose to be alone
Rather than wrapped in arms
I could never need.
From My song for him who never sang for me. Merrit Malloy
@Nisor.
I just wanted to reach out to you, and say I hope you’re feeling well. I’m a bit worried that the harsh words I sometimes say might have unjustly hurt your feelings, especially when you’re in such a vulnerable state of mind as limerence.
Nisor, I want you to know that I think you’re sweet, sincere, and respectful. You display a tremendous amount of compassion for other people, notwithstanding the language barrier. I really admire the way you try to comfort other posters on LwL.
Your manners have also at all times been impeccable, and I’m impressed by that. Although you’re clearly struggling with limerence yourself, you haven’t let your personal struggle affect your overall respect for the institution of marriage. I note with the deepest reverence that you were the person who suggested that only disenfranchised spouses be allowed to comment in the “Limerence during Marriage” blog, and that suggestion was entirely appropriate and very thoughtful.
I feel that “truth” is a masculine virtue and that “compassion” is a feminine virtue. However, in all discussions, we need both truth and compassion to arrive at really worthwhile conclusions. Compassion without truth is sentimentality. Not that there’s anything wrong with pure sentimentality. I love pure sentimentality. But sometimes I feel there needs to be an extra ingredient to “stiffen the batter”. 🙂
In terms of my own commentary, I feel I can be a little heavy on the truth and a little light on the compassion. I rely on the contributions of other good-hearted posters to “balance” the things I say. Being opinionated is also a masculine trait, as you would know from your long experience with males, although not necessarily a masculine virtue. For some reason, I have inherited the masculine trait of being very opinionated and “talking over people” to get my point across.
More intriguing reflections on subtle differences between the sexes: in all-female friend groups, the women all sit around and take turns speaking and everyone is so nice to each other. In all-male friend groups, the men compete for the right to speak. If one doesn’t learn to speak over one’s best friend, one doesn’t get heard at all. Women may ask thoughtful questions; men just throw down the facts. I think men often end up developing thicker skin than women because thin-skinned men don’t survive for very long in all-male work/social environments. 😉
In short, I adore you. You contribution to LwL has been extremely valuable. Your good manners are enviable, and you show just the right amount of respect. I hope you haven’t taken any thoughtless things I’ve said too much to heart. Hugs. 😜
Aw Sammy dear,
You’re flattering me too
much, ha. I appreciate it and thank you for your compliments about me. I promise I’m not going to look over my shoulder from
now on on account of that. I’ll stay humble and at your services.
Yes, I did feel hurt by your comments, but I prayed you would find compassion for me and somehow love me again. Answered prayer! Thanks God!
I’m a sentimentalist alright, but what I desire the most is to see the LwL community, or any community of fellowship, to be peaceful and understanding of each other’s feelings, to strive and help each others to overcome their obstacles in life and be friendly to one another as much as possible. It costs nothing to be nice to one another. I love seeing people prospering and overcoming difficulties, life is so short is not worthy to waste it in menial things. I come from a very peaceful environment and I wish that serenity for everyone. I understand sometimes one may get carried away, life is not perfect by any means, but we understand that and try and fix it the best way we can to bring good results. We’ll be always learning till the last breath.
You know I m very proud of you, and love you because I know the diamond behind that facade you try to portray. Sometimes grumpy, nonetheless adorable! Everyone has a hurting child inside, and I mean everyone. Let’s get that child out and see how we can help him. Telling that innocent inner child that everything will be alright, that we are growing and doing the best we can to succeed in our quest.
If my SO is following he might get jealous of you! There’s my wife declaring love to a total stranger from Australia! He doesn’t know you know more about me than he does, ha! The things of life. I’m happy you reached to me , I needed that. Thank you, thank you.
Have a pleasant day.
Courage and strength. A big mother bear hug.
@Nisor.
“Courage and strength. A big mother bear hug.”
Merci, Madame. 🙂
I love this website! Dr L i think you are amazing. I have been limerent for a man for the past 4 years. He also said he loved me but when I finally started to push for a relationship (after finally separating from my husband) he became quite flaky and unsure. I have decided to end things with him and this website has been an absolute balm to e. It has helped me so much be clear about what I want in my life and it is not indecision and uncertainty. I am writing this today because I am also a psychologist and have a client who today told me her own story of limerence – a limerence that has continued for 40 years (she is good friends with the woman who she is limerent for though this woman has been in another same sex relationship all those years). So sadly my client is now 70 years old and because she has held onto this relationship and limerent feelings all these years has never met anyone else and now has regret that she has never had a loving relationship in the “real” world. It was a real wake up call to me about the importance of overcoming limerent feelings if the relationship is not going to go anywhere – who wants to waste a life pining for someone who doesnt want to be with them?
There are also cases of mutual limerence, or at least mutual reciprocal feelings but one or both of the parties in the LE aren’t willing to part with their spouses, nor their spouses would accept non-monogamous relationship / open relationship.
So, in the end, a total waste of time running away from many real issues at hand. Whether it is finding some kind of marriage helper(s) to strengthen the currently shaky marriage/relationship with SO, being honest to SO about wanting to be non-monogamous, or the tough but possibly needed divorce, rather than staying forever in an unhappy marriage.
Although some have said they’re in a happy marriage, yet they still pine for LO. So I’m usually not sure about the neurological make-up here, as everyone has their own “glimmer” hooks when it comes to LO. You can look up more posts from Dr. L, as his last LE fell under this category. He took action to find ways to no longer engage with LO (with his strong No Contact rule) and find more answers to the (neuro)science behind limerence via this blog.
Look out for posts by Limerent Emeritus and Adam too in the comments section. They are both some great examples of limerents who have been working hard on their marriage while managing LE for many years. Everyone needs to find solutions to their unique situations/psychology.
Thank you, Dr. L, for providing numbers – they’re greatly appreciated! Personally, I view limerent episodes as indicative of a pathological state, reflecting poor mental health at a specific juncture in my life. Since coming to this realization, I’ve found navigating and addressing limerence much easier. While I acknowledge that my perspective is anecdotal and may not resonate with everyone, I struggle to reconcile it with the notion that 50-60% of individuals experience limerence in response to life’s lows. If such a large portion were affected, limerence would seem more universal than pathological.
I question whether those who haven’t encountered limerence can truly grasp its nuances, possibly mistaking it for a typical intense crush—a common experience for many. While I, too, experience intense crushes, they possess distinct psychological qualities from limerent episodes.
It reminds me of the diluted understanding of “depression,” often used interchangeably with mere sadness. This misconception, prevalent among those untouched by clinical depression. Even though I understand that for people who have not had a depressive episode it is hard to differenciate depression from sadness, it frustrates me, given my background as a psychologist. Similarly, many individuals seek my counsel convinced they have ADHD when their symptoms don’t align with the clinical diagnosis. Attempts to convey that occasional lapses in concentration or misplaced items are part of the human experience often fall on deaf ears, undermining the struggles of those genuinely grappling with ADHD or other clinical disorders.
Considering the survey participants, I doubt whether they can accurately differentiate between an intense crush and a limerent episode. Many may have referred to a crush rather than limerence. While acknowledging the complexity of psychological states along a spectrum, there typically exists a threshold where a condition becomes clinically relevant. Most disorders exhibit a prevalence in the single-digit percentages, making Tennov’s estimate of 5% more plausible to me.
Thank you for this most informative article. As one who experienced a remarkable 14 months in a state of limerence, obsessed with a poet-friend who lived thousands of miles away, I am fascinated with your data and useful interpretation. Here’s the thing: during that period of time, I not only sought mental help and received it; I initiated a divorce and, in the end, started a new life. And, in terms of my own writing, I had the most productive, inspired writing “streak” I have ever experienced, submitting to publications and contests, co-publishing a book of poetry, doing readings, reaching out and networking with other poets. I was on fire! It’s like the LO was my super-catalyst. I’m past that period in my life now. But I wonder often: have others reported to you a burst of legitimate creativity during a limerence period?
Mine woke me up in my life. I had closed off my feelings, thinking I was protecting myself, to find out that it wasn’t true. Opening up, my life is so much richer, and I think I have become a nicer and more open and emphatic person. And revisiting fixed opinions and biases, and changing my mind and stance on many things. I find that having my heart broken into million pieces over and over again, with pain every single time, taught me something. And made me more …authentic?
CamillaGeorge,
I could resonate with you almost 90%, except that my heart was not broken into million pieces, since I was expecting little from the unavailable LO during my longest, most intense in LE.
Through the unrequited LE, my deep cptsd wounds got healed a great deal (not totally yet). After walking on the path of self-discovery and self-growth for a while, I become more curious, accepting, fearless and “authentic”, as you say.
Let’s keep walking in this beneficial direction, despite some commonly shared LE pains.
Ahhh….it was the opening up that resulted in new Life experiences that broke my heart over and over. Not LO, LO causes other types of pain in my case. Rebuilding and getting wiser. Transformative experience, not cocooned.
Yes, Camilla George-Your point about closed-off feelings resonates with me. The emotional ceiling in my marriage was very low, and there was no value placed on authentic self-expression. My life, post-limerence, is also so much richer. I’d like to think I listen better, am more empathetic, less judgmental. Thank you for your observations!
Deborah Nash Ott,
So encouraging to hear your firsthand experience of LE on its creativity side, Bravos!
That bursting and creative fire of LE energy is rare and very precious, happy to hear you wisely channeled it through poetry and fruited marvelously! Yes, LO is always a catalyst for something, be it legitimate creative or destructive….
I was/am on this creativity “spectrum” but has not materialized due to health and other issues.
Thank you for sharing your experience and hope more of your creativities and productivity, even if LE has receded.
Thank you, Phoenix-
I feel fortunate that my LO was an excellent poet whose words (his poetry) guided me in such a way that I made some wise choices, even in my obsessive state. Now, post-limerence, I feel that old boundaries have dissolved and, creatively, I can take creative risks without fear of judgment.
I have been reading this website for a while now. This is my first comment. I’m at the end of a LE and it was absolute hell for a while. I couldn’t function for a little while. For a while it was debilitating and I was desperate for it to end and had a few really negative thoughts but nothing too devastating. I am married so the guilt and shame regarding my SO and my LOs spouse made it even worse. I have felt terrible for this obsession. The shame. I have a dysfunctional past and some loss and definitely some attachment issues. My past isn’t terrible, just not ideal. I was desperate for a medication to help me but never found one that worked because of the side effects and didn’t want to keep trying for one that got rid of the intrusive thoughts. I have been limerant for someone I see regularly but never actually talk to. It’s a teacher/leader person that I don’t have to talk to. I think they knew I had a crush on them so they inappropriately fueled my limerance even more. It is just my opinion but I think that they loved the admiration. I think it’s their personality and it’s so unfair. I can’t imagine more than 5% of the population have experienced what I’ve been through and for someone I don’t even know. I chose not to do NC just because it’s not someone I actually have any real contact with and I didn’t want to just shut down my life over it, I figured I’d just manage the thoughts and I knew it would eventually end. I’m so glad it’s almost over. A bunch of other stuff has happened but I don’t want to get into all of that. I never got close to acting on anything, it’s just some drama has been added to it all. It’s all so awful. I’m in therapy, did a support group like 12 steps which did not help plus I’ve already been through the steps before, and now I’m learning how not to care what other people think of me. That’s really hard. I’m such a people pleaser and have had low self esteem most of my life. I’ve come a long way in the past 10 years though. At this point I’m just trying to figure out what to do next. At the complete end of this, I hope to be stronger and a better person. That’s all I can hope for. Oh and my spouse. They just think I’ve had some major mental health problems, which I have. I have not told them about this but a very similar situation happened before with someone I didn’t know and I told them about it. I don’t think they need to know it’s happened again but I think they probably already have an idea, but maybe not. I just can’t see how half the population has experienced this. Maybe they do and don’t talk about it. 5% seems more likely. I think 50% have experienced crushes but not this. It’s crazy. Maybe this is what many people experience when they have mental illness but they don’t confess that limerance is to blame. It confuses the mind. Love is a choice not an obsession. Thank you for this website. I’m glad I’m not alone.