Edit to update: Since writing this article, I have actually carried out a large-scale survey of the prevalence of limerence in the general population. Results are here.
Two of the most frequent questions I receive from limerents who have recently become aware of the phenomenon are:
- How common is limerence?
- Does it correlate with other personality traits or psychological conditions?
It’s difficult to answer, mainly because limerence doesn’t have a recognised status in psychology and so no formal tests exist by which we could definitively assign people into “limerent” and “non-limerent” categories.
To really get to the bottom of these questions, the obvious approach would be to construct a survey with questions designed to identify limerent traits, and then persuade a large number of randomly selected people within the population to take it. If we could get the sample size to be large enough, we could potentially get a good estimate of the prevalence of limerence, and if we also asked questions to identify other personality traits (e.g. the big five) or psychological disorders (OCD, PTSD, anxious attachment etc.) then we might also be able to start testing for correlations.

The other perennial problem with this sort of survey-based approach is the demographic make up of your sample. If you put up an online survey you’re bound to get a biased sample. If you have an open call for volunteers, the right mix of people have to hear that call (the classic example of this problem is the number of psychology projects that have groups populated almost entirely by University students). So, it’s not a trivial problem to solve.
Well, over at neurosparkle, fellow neuroscientist and limerence enthusiast Lucy has found an elegant alternative approach, which has thrown up some really interesting results. Lucy ended an article she published with a survey asking limerents to give their Myers-Brigg personality type (or Myers-Brigg Type Indicator, MBTI).
There’s plenty of scepticism out there about the scientific validity of MBTI tests, but those concerns are mostly centred around whether they meaningfully encompass the wide spectrum of personality, or around misusing the results to judge individuals. Lucy’s approach side-steps those problems, by simply asking: which MBTIs are most common among limerents?
The MBTI manual includes a minimally biased population (of >16000 people from across the world) to compare Lucy’s limerent sample against. By that neat simplification, she can estimate the relative abundance of limerents in the population without having to recruit people to an onerous online questionnaire. The results are fascinating:

A first observation is that all personality types are represented. In other words, anyone can become obsessively infatuated.
A second observation, though, is that some MBTI groups are dramatically over-represented. Two MBTI categories dominate the surveyed limerents: INFJ and INFP. These categories account for nearly half of all the self-selected limerents who read Lucy’s article, but represent only about 1.5% and 4.4% of the general population, respectively
Looked at from the opposite direction, the most common personality types – ISFJ and ESFJ – are dramatically under-represented in the limerents sample. Note that this suggests that while introverts are more likely to be limerents, a simple introvert/extravert split is not an adequate explanation as the commonest introvert category is under-represented. Only certain types of introvert are especially prone.

If you apply this dataset to the question of how common limerence is in the general population, you arrive at a figure of 4.3%.
This is similar to an estimate of 5% that has entered popular discourse (e.g. this article), but the provenance of that estimate is not clear. It seems to originate from Albert Wakin, but I’ve not been able to track down a source for the methodology.
How reliable is this estimate?
The 4.3% figure assumes that Lucy’s sample is a fair representation of the total population of limerents, and therefore simply sums the relative abundance of MBTI types to their fraction of population: i.e. if 21% of limerents are INFJ, and that type is 1.5% of the population, then 21% of all limerents come from 1.5% of the population (= 0.315%). That has the benefit of being simple, but there are inevitable sources of bias.
First, the sample is composed of self-selected participants – those people that read the original article and were motivated enough to complete the survey. It may be that INFJ and INFP personality types are actually over-represented in people that fit those criteria, rather than being over-represented in the global population of “all limerents”. It could be that those types tend to seek help through this means – searching for articles online to understand what they are going through, and then feeling a sense of responsibility to help others by filling in a survey. Generally, there is likely to be a bias for introverts to look to impersonal sources of support (like books and articles) in preference to asking friends, or talking to therapists.
A second possible confounding factor is that this sample is likely limited to only those who are especially suffering as a consequence of their limerence. That fits with the Wakin model of limerence and so perhaps maps well onto the 5% estimate from his work. Again, though, that doesn’t mean that only 4-5% of the total population can ever experience limerence; only that those people are the most vulnerable to falling into the toxic state of person addiction.
Third, there is a bias towards people who have taken a MBTI test and been engaged enough to remember their type. Again, this may not be evenly distributed across the population.
Despite all those caveats, the effect size is really large. It’s hard to believe that INFJ/Ps would be so disproportionately over-represented in online readers.
Overlap with other conditions
The other benefit of this approach is that we can compare the MBTI distribution for limerence to the distribution for other conditions. A quick and dirty research dive suggests that “Highly sensitive people” (HSPs) are also over-represented by INFJ and INFP types (although I haven’t found a quantitative analysis of the same quality as Lucy’s). Similarly, there is plenty of discussion about MBTI and conditions such as OCD and addiction, but most of it is anecdotal and speculative. But, taking an analytical approach may help reveal where there is overlap. This is certainly a good starting point.
Overall, this is a neat and thought-provoking project. Limerents may be less common that I had assumed.
Let’s all show our appreciation by heading over to the survey and adding more data!
Fascinating, thanks DrL.
I am also INFJ personality type so conform with Lucy’s study in that respect. I enjoy these personality tests although wonder that a person’s type does not account for the degree they conforms to each of the 4 types, so surely two people of the same type can still be fairly different.
Reading Lucy’s article was also interesting…according to her I am not actually limerent/infatuated as am not miserable 😊 (currently anyway!). But I most definitely am limerent.
I personally don’t agree with her assertion that all limerents “are probably mentally ill in some way, and could most likely be diagnosed with OCD, depression, anxiety, BPD, or bipolar disorder” …..I consider myself mentally healthy (if you discount my mind dwelling far too much on my LO!), have high self-worth and all my LOs have been mentally healthy, nice people.
Yes, I agree, Allie. For me limerence was a distinct episode/phenomenon in a life that was otherwise mentally healthy, with stable attachments. I suspect that has shaped my assumption that limerence is fairly common – and why this survey struck me as so interesting.
Maybe there are just fewer of us, overall.
Thanks for this fascinating post. I’m an INFJ, and consider the limerence a lapse from my regular life which has been mostly stable relationships. However, you have commented before about how limerence can fill a void or an emotional need and that’s why we keep returning to ruminate on LO even long after we may realize it’s not real, not healthy, etc. I would be interested in a post about how to determine what emotional need the LE is filling, and if there’s a way to figure it out without a therapist, and also how purposeful living can help fill our emotional needs.
You can get very close to figuring things out without a therapist.
For me, working with a good therapist.
1. Provided a knowledgeable, objective person to talk to who didn’t have a stake in the outcome.
2. Validated what I thought the issues were.
3. Challenged my defenses and exposed things like how I dealt with cognitive dissonance.
4. Developed and implemented a method to address the identified core issues.
Then, again, I had a therapist who was willing to let me run with things and weighed in when she thought I’d hit something important.
I think it’s unfair for them to say oh if you have this disorder you can’t have this other disorder which is bs, you can have a bunch of disorders at the same time. I do have ocd and anxiety but this limerence board has come closer than anything I’ve read relating to ocd with my le.
Most of the symptomps I found on your website describe how I feel. I am thankful for finding this site because I thought I am the only “crazy” person who is like this. I have Ocd since childhood and I have INFJ personality. I ve always had crushes , but nothing was strong like I am feeling last year. It is far beyond a crush and sometimes I feel like my brain is sick. I started to have these feelings towards 15 years older coworker. He matches visually my type plus he reminds me so much of my dad who left me when I was a child. Its a killing combination for my subsoncious , its like somebody made him up just for me to get addicted to him.
After 5 months of flirting as coworkers, he invited me out. I felt literally high for 3 hours and could not sleep all night. Then he canceled without reason. I was destroyed. I told him my feelings and he said he wants to be my friend. We went out and he was calling it a date. He has always giving me conflicting signs. So this confusion always made my highs and lows really bad. He has fear of commitement and relationships and never dated anybody even through is 45. But he started theraphy for his fear of relationships when we started meeting. It gave me hope. We re dating for 6 months. I dont have strenght within me to continue to be so affected how he treats me, one day he contacts me multilple times, sometimes for 4 days nothing. All my moods depend exactly on how he treats me and if he contacts me or not. I am absolutely consumed by thinking about him 24/7, sometimes I cant sleep even. This goes on for a year, i ve been obssessed like this with him long before we started dating and it was so strong from day 1 that they cant get stronger. Already on maximum. I know he ll never want to commit to me, but the fact he had theraphy gives me hope deep down even through I dont see changes. When he does not contact me I feel depression. Cant do anything, work , concentrate, live. When we go out I feel that high that I dont even sleep next night, i just obssessivelly think what have happened and am like on drugs.
I feel ashamed that I am not able to manage to not think about him. I always do, or I m sad that he is loosing interest or I am like in ecstasy when we meet.
I dont know what to do, i really want to not want him. Thats what I wish most. I d only feel fullfilled if he commited to me and loved me. I feel like thats only when my life would be good.
But he has committement issues. Im in great pain last days as he is cutting contact with me without a reason, i d like to reach out to him and make him want to go out with me again. But I also cant get myself again to this emotional rollercoaster.
Worst emotional ups and downs I ve ever experienced. To have LO who has commitement issues and treats you every day very differently, hot and cold, one day he tells me he wants to be with me, next day no contact and it goes like this.When i m already extremly oversensitive on his reactions and his every word and move is overanalyzed.
Im drained but I cant live without him. I dont know how to end it in my mind.
Sorry to hear what you are going through, Patty. It does sound as though your LO has big issues with commitment/attachment. Predictably, that leads to uncertainty and intermittent reinforcement for you, and anxiety about the strength of your bond. Classic limerence vicious cycle.
I suppose there are two ways to respond. The first is to accept that he will not be able to give you the reciprocation you crave – which means you have to also accept that any relationship with him will be filled with uncertainty for you. It’s possible to reconcile yourself to that, but it does also mean you have to manage your expectations about what kind of life with him you could expect (asymmetric emotional support, for sure).
The second response is to decide that kind of relationship is not acceptable to you, and work on detaching yourself from him. That will hurt for sure, because you’ve bonded with him (for good or ill) and that isn’t easy to reverse without emotional pain. The thinking here is that a better future life exists beyond him, and so the short-term sacrifice of deprogramming yourself from limerence is worth the long-term gain of freedom to live a more purposeful life.
It’s the basic conundrum of limerence: live in emotional limbo, or sacrifice hope and break free…
It is really hard for me to give up hope. It is always in back of my mind. “What if he changes, he has theraphist”… “maybe he needs more time since im the first person he kissed or slept with in 14 years from his fear of relationship which is already a big deal”…
This fear of making a mistake and scaring him off feels like I can miss the biggest chance of a lifetime, since we could live together and be happy.
Sometimes I “pray to god” that he d just straight up refuse me.
Because I remember when I first time I told him my feelings, expecting refusal I felt like I could breathe first time in months.
What i ve got was worse than refusal, it was half acceptace.
I wish I have never met him ever in my life. If I could push some button to make me forget him I d do it immidiatelly.
I was not extremly happy before i ve met him, but at least I was able to concentrate on other things and people who matter in my life.
Patty, how are you doing now?
If you want have a look at Alan Robarge on you tube who talks about being stuck in relationships because our attachment history is activated and we can not leave.
The link to the survey takes you back to Lucy’s article.
Yes, it’s just a simple tick box survey at the bottom of the article.
I wasn’t able to see tick box from my PC but it showed up fine on my phone.
First of all, thank you, Dr. L, for posting this. I’ve found so many of your posts helpful, but tying limerence to Meyers Briggs helped to provide a new perspective that is pointing me toward some “deep work” of my own. No surprise I’m INFJ (tada!), but I hadn’t really considered how that affected my LE at all. What really stood out is how INFJs handle stress: by behaving impulsively and even recklessly. That sounds… familiar. Over the past year I’ve had multiple stresses heaped on my head: moving in with a mother in law who is slowly slipping into cranky dementia; feeling like I’m spinning my wheels in my career; having to negotiate the feelings of SO, who responds to stress by becoming hypercritical and angry; and then we have coronavirus. It’s a total limerent cocktail! But being able to see this and recognize it for what it is, I think, will help me distance myself enough mentally via analysis to negotiate the absolute uncertainty (if that’s not oxymoronic) of my LO. At the very least, it will keep me from disclosing anything, which I think under the circumstances would be stupid at best. Thanks for providing the info as well as an outlet for my frustrations.
You’re welcome RCA!
And I agree that ability to mentally distance yourself – to think “I understand why this is happening to me” – is invaluable for protecting against the urge to behave impulsively.
Interesting article, DrL, I am going to re read and analyze it again later.
But two observations:
1. The ones highest on the infatuated spectrum are the ones starting with INF… introverts, intuitive people and feelers… makes sense that these show up as highest, no surprise…
2. I don’t like the MBTI, because depending on the time I take the test, my category changes. I seem to be very much in the middle of two of the four categories, so they tend to give me three different MBTI codes, so for me it is not really clear where I fit and I am pretty sure that if I just slightly deviate with my answers I am all of a sudden something else.
I do not have the “N” though, I am a clear S, and any of my 3 codes are low in infatuation in your chart above, so I don’t fit the classical profile… 🤷🏻♀️
Sarah, I think if you’re having trouble with the test, there is a way around it. If you look up what each letter stands for (i = inteovert, t = thinking etc.) you can decide which one you are most like and construct your type from the four. I hope this helps you get an accurate reading, as I am interested in everyone’s results.
Thanks, AL. I tried to do that. Still struggling a bit 😝
If doing that I would say I am ISTP.
I sometimes wonder how much these can change over time. For example, I used to be an introvert, but given my professional and personal experiences over the decades, I learned to be more extroverted, to the point where people are really surprised that I am saying I am an introvert. So am I a masked introvert now? Or at what point do I actually feel that I am no longer an introvert anymore? I am not even sure if I still am. I hold on to it because that’s what I’ve always been, but maybe I have changed?
But then when I read the summaries of these types, they usually only apply partially, or to some extend or some situations.
I just did another of those free tests, and it told me ESFJ 😂
But slight preference (9%) towards E rather I
1% towards S over N, so literally in the middle
Slight (9%) preference of F over T
And still slight (16%) preference of J over P…. i seem to be just very in the middle of everything 🤷🏻♀️
I have always been highly skeptical of psychological ‘typecasting’ but now I may have to do the MBTI.
INFP here! 🙋🏻♂️ (Although sometimes I come out ISFP)
Some interesting stats there showing how rare limerence is. We only have a 5% chance of knowing a fellow limerent, so mutual limerence is highly unlikely, given the likelihood that they also happened to be limerent for you.
I’d love to know the MBTI for LOs, I bet they’d be majority ESTJ / ESTP etc.
That’s a good point, Vincent.
Counting my blessings even more…
If LO is also INFJ or INFP, what are the odds then?
I don’t think we can answer that yet. We’d need to know the proportion of INF(X) folks who are non-limerent.
But the odds are certainly much better.
LO #2: ESFJ – my guess but I’d bet lunch on it. The therapist agreed.
LO #4: INTJ – that’s what she told me and I believe her
PLO #1: ISFJ – that’s what she told me and it fits
Co-worker I was attracted to: ESTJ. Hanging around her at work helped convince me thatvI’m really an ENTJ and not the ESTJ the two tests I took in a professional environment say I am.
As far as I know, I’ve never been anyone’s LO, which is kind of a bummer.
I too am INFP!!
https://youtu.be/AUmlhXQGN4s
For us single limerence ( and maybe not single) I watched the 5 episodes of Alan Robarges cycle of insecure attached relationships. And I got smacked in my face. This is exactly EVERYTHING I did with All my partner’s / relationships and to my latest LO. (
its so insight giving that it makes it embarrassing to watch. I had to take a pauze at # 4. It almost makes me feel like I should apologize to some of my exes, it wasn’t you, it was me,( I’m sorry for labeling you, for blaming you, for objectifying you, for oversharing, for creating false intimacy, for saying I love you when I really didn’t, for wanting to change you so we would work because I refused to see that we where not a match and we HAD to work because I was longing for you) and it took me 46 years to see that. I’m not blaming myself, I didn’t know I was disfunctial in relationships till latest LE, but I have some work to do.
Wow! Sounds like you have taken a huge stride forwards Mia…self awareness and understanding are so very empowering.
Interesting too…..I had never considered that the impulse to change someone could be related to limerent longing but makes total sense when you point it out like that.
Yes, because also with my ex husband, we HAD to work, because I wanted it, or better yet, my LE demanded it!
Thank you Allie, I’m trying to untangle the puzzle but simultaneously my LE rages on, no matter how many articles I read, but keeping NC one day at a time is my present goal.
How are you doing ?
I’m doing well – still in the depths of my LE but managing it. My biggest problem is that I just don’t feel ready to let go of my LO yet – my attempts to let go made me very unhappy. So I am following a more mindfulness based approach – based on fully accepting how I feel without trying to change it, practising mindful self awareness and deliberately doing some more realistic ruminating based on facts not fantasy. Meditation has helped too – I developed a new method of once fully calm within a meditation, I deliberately bring my LO to mind alongside my breath and mentally wrap the thought of LO in my calm feelings.
This all seems to be working OK. I still think about LO an awful lot but my mind has settled just enough to function normally and I am feeling happier (for now at least!).
Wishing you a productive and life changing journey Mia!
You too Allie, it sounds good that you feel happier ( for now, enjoy it like crazy while it’s there ) and you found a way to give your mind some relief without loosing reality .
Bravo
A little off topic, but think it is for many of the reasons mentioned here in this post that political polls should be taken with a grain of salt. I have always thought that the only people taking political surveys are either the patient cooperative ones or ones with strong opinions. Most everyone else in the “center” would not waste their time answering questions on a topic they have no interest in. I believe it is for this reason that so many people were so god smacked when Donald Trump won the Presidency in the U.S.
Also, I have a question: Is it possible to be limerent for two LOs at once? Or is this about as possible as being able to see both views of a Necker Cube at the same instant?
This is a potential rabbit hole for sure, James, but I’d add one other point: preference falsification is a danger in all surveys, but nowadays it’s so prevalent that polls are really unpredictable.
As to your question about two LOs – I can’t see it being possible for full blown limerence, but a single limerent looking for love could have several glimmery candidates before they fully nucleate.
This is what I thought.
INFP and serial limerent here!
Me too! 👊🏼
🙂
Ditto (almost 40/M/INFP).
I introduced my 20+/F LO to MBTI shortly after meeting her last year at work… and what do you know, she’s an INFJ!
Which possibly explains my theory that this LE is… symmetric.
I’ve actually disclosed last year (she has a boyfriend, I have a wife) and told her what I felt for her amounted to a one-sided EA with the hope that she view me as “bad news”, basically trying to be an honest but decent friend. She’s admitted to being attracted to me, but denied having feelings (or so I thought).
But here we are in June (and 3 months since our last physical goodbye) and this weird “are we both in love?” tango is still in season. Seems being physically distant from our respective social networks has made us gravitate more online, especially since our personalities—rare as they are—really jive like nothing else I’ve known for a long time.
Limerence does make even the wiser of us a bit more disingenuous than we usually are in other areas of life. And young as my LO might be, I do wonder if it’s the limerence that makes her do what she does (e.g. sending me a personal photo of something, which days later is the last photo of her weekly Instagram post). I can only assume it’s code for “I think of you though I can’t say it out loud”.
INFJ and sometime limerent. Both big LEs have been mutual (mutual from all indications anyway). Do I go slow coach limerent because I’m the ultimate people pleaser? I don’t want them to suffer alone? Going on two months NC and feeling much better…
ENFJ heew.
I should be “natural born leader”.
Yeah, right. 😂
ESFP 😝 life long limerent
Nope, ENTP here! Where does my limerance comes from? I think I can say with confidence it must be my anxious attachment style, pure OCD, and unresolved trauma. Interestingly enough and from reading other comments, I’ve only been limerant twice in my life and both episodes were 25 years apart. Not sure if that classifies me as a bona fida limerant but this time around it hit me that much harder (midlife crisis?) When I was in my 20s and in a long term relationship, I use to hear stories about middle aged people who acted like teenagers when they met new dating partners. Ill never forget, I had a driving instructor in my late teens who at the time must have been in her 40s and she ranted on and on about her older crush.
I thought she was simply mentally unhinged. Would never judge it now, lol
Lots ofcomments saying people are INFJ, but not me. ISTJ(T) here. Guess I’m just destined to be in pain, no matter the (unbelievably) low chances. 🤷🏼♂️
I remember trying to do this survey a while ago. I’m glad someone else with a bigger clientele thought of it because I got nowhere and now I get to see the results, which makes me very happy. I can’t say I wasn’t expecting a more prominent pattern, though…
AL – Update on your LE, please?
Well, there’s not really much to tell. Since lockdown started and I left school, I haven’t seen her at all. I blocked her ages ago, so I haven’t heard from her, and the one group chat I was in where her username appeared on a post someone sent, I left. So I have kind of isolated myself, but I don’t care; the government did that anyway!
I *think* I’m getting better? I’m not really sure because I have never been through limerence before (and, touckwood, hopefully never will again) to know how recovery feels, so I’m just sort of hoping this lockdown goes on for as long as possible. That way, I shouldn’t see her until I go back to school (in September, I think), which *should* be enough time to guarantee my recovery.
Touchwood.
Can you send me a link of a free test? Cannot find any online!
As a general fact I dont like to put ppl in a case and be defined by 4 letters! But curious to see what is my result and if it explains my limerent brain
This one’s good:
https://www.16personalities.com/free-personality-test
I have been debating whether or not I should come here and comment, to discuss with you about my own limerence, the feelings of longing, euphoria, despair and the constant pursuit of a person that comes across as so pure, so perfect and without any faults that you think you are completely crazy and become mad with anxiety because you know it’s unhealthy, and the guilt when you see that, at times, it comes across as borderline obsessive.
However, having experienced 3 major bouts of limerence in the past and am going through a 4th, it’s a painful experience, one full of anguish and loneliness. I have reached the point where I need some advice about how to come to terms with the current LE and the emotions it’s triggering within me.
In coming here to this thread, I do not want to feel alone with what I am currently going through, and with your support, I hope will help me overcome this spell of limerence and give me some control of my life again. More importantly, I hope you will show me an understanding about my situation because of how sensitive a subject limerence is.
My questions:
1. What do you do when NC isn’t an option?
2. Is it truly possible to have a friendship with an LO, particularly if that was the underlying motive for wanting to get closer to them?
3. If it is possible to have a friendship with an LO, what if they’re in a relationship? Is that appropriate and possible?
4. What happens if an LO moves away?
Why do I ask these questions? Unlike my previous LOs, whereby my limerence ended for them because they either became involved in a relationship with someone or outright rejected me, my current LO happens to live in my neighborhood with their parent, similar to me and we know their parent fairly well.
At the present time, NC is simply not an option because it would cause unnecessary drama and, to cap matters off, as neighbors, we’ve all become closer in the recent months with our friendship. In fact, while I have been suffering through limerence with my LO, we’ve begun to develop a nascent friendship of our own, hence my 2nd question.
The problem is my LO is soon to move away, and, this is the first time that I will have experienced this – an LO moving away when I am in the midst of an LE. While we may have begun to develop a friendship, with everything I know of limerence and what I’ve read, this is causing me great anxiety and I am worried about what I am going to feel when they depart. Any advice you can dispense would be greatly appreciated!
The responses to those questions would probably take a lot of space.
Since there’s no site index, it might be easier to use the keyword search on things like NC, friendship, etc. There’s also a “categories” drop down box that will help consolidate your searches.
There’s probably a specific blog that covers those questions. For example, there’s https://livingwithlimerence.com/2017/03/13/cant-we-just-be-friends/ and others that address #2. Search “friends.”
https://livingwithlimerence.com/2018/12/09/limerence-for-a-co-worker/ & https://livingwithlimerence.com/2019/01/13/case-study-limerent-for-a-close-family-friend/ talk about #1. A lot of stuff pops up in comments. Search “No Contact.”
Searching on “Unavailable” will get you to blogs on #3.
I don’t remember anything specific on question 4 but I’m sure we talk about it somewhere. You might look at “When LOs Return” Parts I & 2. They’re more about when an LO has gone and returns but you may find something useful in them.
The info you’re looking for is here somewhere, finding it may take awhile.
Sorry, DrL,
I meant “he talks…”
You’ve earned that “we” Scharnhorst!
LG, from my own experience, yes it is possible to be friends with LO but ONLY after you moved on, so that probably means after the grief and after the fog. Big chances are by than you will not feel the intense need anymore to be friends. (Scarry to think of now, I know, but when you are there you just don’t care as much anymore) I’m friends with a former LO but I got totally over him (and hoping to be friends with my current LO ( last one is still the addiction talking I know, I just can’t bare the thought yet of not having him in my life , )
You are not alone LG, we are here to support you 🙂
Hi Mia,
It’s interesting you saying that, regarding the double-edged sword of how it’s possible to be friends with an LO, but the desire may not necessarily be there once the limerent fog has cleared and you’ve got over them. That’s going to be the test for me – whether or not after they’ve moved if my limerent fog will clear and I will see them differently, that I will be as determined to have the friendship with them no longer living on my street. The fact that I know their parent well means that it won’t be as easy to become uninvolved with them, limerence-wise, as it would be if it was purely them.
What I can say, is that I did know the LO briefly prior to them moving back with their parent (it was about two years ago and they stayed with them at the time), and although I thought they were quite nice, the briefness of their visit and the fact that I was in a better place mentally meant that there wasn’t time for any sort of limerence to develop. In the intervening time, though, I’ve dealt with some serious personal issues that have built up, and, as I said in my reply to Scharnhorst below, it’s the strong desire for friendship and seeing them as rescuing me from my loneliness that’s influencing my limerence.
At the moment, LO and I are in contact and building a nascent friendship. It will be interesting to see if it changes in the coming weeks, if they remain in contact with me and how they respond to friendly messages, but done without it becoming limerence-induced, of course. One of the things that has made this LE awkward has been the fact our parents have become good friends and from my perspective, seeing my parent have such a positive person in their life has helped enormously, but has made having to navigate through the limerence minefield harder as I genuinely want to be friends with my LO without my actions potentially making them uncomfortable. In this, I have been successful, but it hasn’t been easy with the limerence.
What I will also say, in finding this blog and realizing that there are other people who have and are going through limerence provides me with some comfort, to know that I am not going crazy, so your embrace of me as a fellow limerent is very much appreciated. 🙂
I remember when I first came across limerence, it was about 8 years ago and it was after I had this absolutely irrational reaction to the departure of, what would turn out to be, LO1 for a night, and feeling despair, agitated, stressed to the point where I couldn’t eat much food until after I had witnessed their return. It was only through some painful and rather late-night research that I came across limerence, which explained the glut of emotions I had felt. It surprised me that there was so little about it online at the time, particularly in the support department. The following days and weeks were hell – the emotional rollercoaster I was on threw me into such turmoil, I was relieved, one day, a few months later, when I casually observed LO1 kissing someone who I presumed was their romantic partner and that helped bring that LE to a rapid close.
I will be just glad when the next couple weeks are done and LO4 moves; it’s tough enough to think about their departure – in many respects, it would have been easier if I didn’t know it to be honest, and I found out afterwards, because I do dread the immediate week or two afterward. I just hope that it won’t be too hard and that I am able to build a friendship with them, even if they do live a couple hundred miles away. Only time will tell.
Yes, not being in a good place, and needing a rescue def. Fuels limerence. I used LO as my rescuer for sure.
( I need rescue from my rescuer)
And I think most people come across limerence while googling to find out what the hell is wrong , why are my feelings so incredibly out of control. I know I did. Happy you found this site to vent. With fellow limerents in different states of recovery (or not) without judgement all understanding what you go through, the deep pain that a non limerent would not understand. Keep venting here if you want and good luck in the next weeks! All you got to do is keep breathing and take good care of yourself. Time is your friend 🙂
Hi Mia,
Thanks for understanding. 🙂 I am sorry to hear the amount of pain you’ve gone through with all the LEs you’ve had and the trouble they’ve caused. You have my deepest sympathies.
That’s what I could do with at the moment – someone to rescue me from my rescuer! What gets me with limerence, is the way it consumes you, how your whole day can be determined by whether or not you had what you consider to be a “positive” or “negative” interaction with the LO and constantly going through every detail. It’s exhausting!
That’s why finding this site is a relief; to be able to speak to fellow limerents who know exactly what it’s like to develop this intense and powerful infatuation with someone that can fundamentally reconfigure your emotional state and mess you up if you’re not careful. It would be wonderful to be able to tell my parent about how I feel for my LO, but I don’t want that threatening their friendship the LO’s parent.
Furthermore, having gone through three LEs and each one was a nightmare in their own separate ways, it gives me the most comfort knowing I have it available to me now, with this LE as I do consider it to be the worst of the bunch.
It just seems that, unlike the others, there’s so much more riding on this one, because not only do I know the LO and am making baby steps towards building a proper friendship, but my parent knows their parent and anything I do that’s limerence based could jeopardize that friendship.
However, if I disengage and start acting distant or change my behavior in some way, that too will attract unwanted attention, so I’m stuck, caught between my limerence and friendship, and try as I might, having immense difficulty trying to stem the tide of my runaway emotions.
At the moment, my rational side is screaming at me to calm down, that things will get better and, unlike my previous LOs, I do have a friendship that, unless something changes, can and will develop if I don’t allow my limerence to destroy it.
The other thing that isn’t helping, is that this is a different type of limerence that I’m going through. This one is being fueled, largely, because I do want to have a strong and deep friendship with my LO, and it’s the idea of the all-rescuing friend that I am fantasizing about.
As I mentioned below, I have had a few romantic thoughts about them, but not to the same extent that I had with my previous LOs. The thought of them becoming involved with someone else romantically, for me, is not something that I consider too upsetting and I am certain that such news would not dampen down my LE.
Thanks for the luck – I will do my best to try and mitigate the emotional rollercoaster; I would be lying if it wasn’t affecting me now as I write this, however.
LG, why dont you find a nice / good counseler? ( in Holland its free, i dont now if its free in your country) im so happy with mine, no she doesnt know limerence but she helpes me with healthy coping and really keeping me to make good choices, when my addiction is raging and wanting me to cave. I wish all limerents would get free counseling, we sure as hell can use someone to help us put things in perspective.
Hi Mia,
Counselling is something I have slowly begun to consider as a means of how I can go forward and address not only the limerence, but some other issues too. With the lockdowns easing and the various medical systems no longer being so overwhelmed by the pandemic, it’s something I can research about what my local area offers. It would be nice to be able to speak to a counsellor about some of the issues I am dealing with, and not have my emotions rampaging all over the place.
Hi LG. I felt like I had to comment here as I too have been in agonising limerence with a neighbour for a few years.
Firstly, my answer to being friends with an LO is a big fat no. I tried every type of friendship with LO and it all left me with crippling anxiety and constant rumination.
It’s so hard when NC isn’t an option but you must pull away from your LO bit by bit. I was so emeshed in LO’s life that I thought it would be impossible to pull away, but I did, slowly but surely.
As mentioned I was limerent for a neighbour for what seemed like forever. I gradually reduced contact, until we only saw each other when we had too and also reduced texting to barely anything. It was hard but I did it! My LO played a huge amount of games with me and upset me quite a bit, so towards the end I had an excuse. My LO has recently moved. I thought I was going to miss him so much and the pain leading up to the moved hurt deep. The first few days of NC were bad as I only remembered all the rose tinted memories I had. However, now I am enjoying the free space my mind has and now my thoughts of LO as shirking by the day. I feel a huge sense of relief that I can leave my house without my stomach doing summersaults. This new sense of freedom is appealing to me much much more than having LO in my life. If I keep this up I know I will be at peace.
It seems as though a switch has been flipped and my mind has been returned to me but I know I have been working towards freedom for a while. I am cautious of relapses but I’m seeing LO for who he really is and my self worth is growing stronger by the day. I actually have nothing to say to LO and do not see the point. I have been burnt way to many times.
If NC becomes an option, I would see this as a blessing because personally it was what I needed to end this madness.
You are not alone but do not try and be friends with this person. Even if they are sweet, it’s not worth this agony. When your out of the fog, you will see
So glad to hear it’s going well Rachel. It sounds like the grey cloud is lifting 🙂
Thanks Dr L! I’m just cautious of this sudden flipped switch. I’m not over it but it’s getting better in big strides.
Hi Rachel,
What you’ve just described is really horrible and I am sorry that you went through all that pain. I can only imagine what sort of hell it must have been – and you have my deepest sympathies.
You’ve given me a lot to contemplate with your advice, which I greatly appreciate. 🙂 I can’t say that that the level of friendship I have with my LO is anywhere near what you describe having with your neighbor, but we’ve been moving slowly in that direction. In actual terms, I know their parent better than them, but want a friendship that goes beyond that, and a lot of that progress has come since the new year.
I can say, based upon my interactions with my LO and their parent, that they aren’t aware of what I feel toward my LO and I am treated by them mostly the same, that the more we’ve interacted (even through the lockdown and within the appropriate guidelines!) we’ve come to know one another better. Perhaps it’s just me wanting to see the side of them that I want to see, but nothing I’ve observed of their behavior has led me to believe that they’ve been manipulating me so far.
However, that isn’t to say that I shouldn’t be on my guard – what will be the real test, in my view, is what happens after they move. I know that any nascent friendship that they and I are building will be strained considerably if it becomes one-sided on my part; even if I don’t contact them that often, which will confirm that they consider me nothing more than a cordial acquaintance. If that turns out to be the case, then it will make things easier to go NC and with an effort towards friendly and polite conversation should one encounter them when they visit their parent.
Either way, getting my emotions in order before and after they move is going to be my priority. No matter what happens, it’s going to cause me hell, and the fact that even with the positivity in interacting with you folks, here, on this site about my limerent issues, I can feel the anxiety about my LO leaving is proving why I came here in the first place, and why it’s going to be some tough weeks ahead.
Hello Scharnhorst,
I’ve taken a look at the links you suggested – the information is quite a lot to digest, but those articles do go a long way to answering my questions, so thanks for sharing them.
For me, having navigated through the minefield that is limerence three times previously, this one is definitely the hardest. I no longer live close to my preceding LOs, but I moved after the LEs had faded, although I came close to that happening with the preceding LO, but they rejected me before I moved, so it made things considerably easier when I moved away. However, to be in the midst of an LE and they’re moving away and the fact that I am building a friendship with them, that’s definitely tough. What doesn’t help my situation is that beside my LO and their parent, I am, due to some serious personal issues, mostly friendless and it’s only recently that I have begun to take steps to address that – before the pandemic struck and fundamentally changed everything, of course.
I intend to read more about what you’ve provided me. What I ideally would like from this situation is for me to drop or contain the limerent feelings that I have and try and work on building a true friendship with my LO, even though that’s a difficult proposition to come by. As I said, my anxiety is that, when the time comes for them to leave, it will be a devastating blow psychologically and that I won’t be able to cope without them being around. I’ve gone through LE withdrawal on a minor scale at the height of all my LEs so far and that was painful enough.
Although I am working on building a friendship with them, it’s been at a glacial pace and, I have, unfortunately, over the years, developed attachment to people and places that I have moved away from and am no longer in contact, which has had an impact on my wanting to develop friendships – a fear that if I become close to someone, they will go away and hurt me with their departure. While LO and I are in contact and it’s simply a case of them moving away, that underlying issue, combined with my limerence is not helping matters at all.
There was another question that I was hoping that someone with more knowledge on this subject and in the medical profession in general can help me with: Can OCD and loneliness play a part in triggering limerence? It’s with my current LO that I’ve noticed a link between the longing for friendship and the seeming difficulty of trying to obtain that, becoming obsessed by it and my limerence.
With my current LO, while there have been some romantic thoughts about them, they’re not what is causing me to feel limerent; rather what’s feeding my limerence is the desire to know them as a person, someone, who, in my view, who will rescue me from my lonely existence. Whereas with my previous LOs, while I wanted a friendship with them, there were far more intimate and complex fantasies about them that haven’t cropped up with this LO.
Hi LG, and welcome. Great to see you’ve already had loads of good advice.
One thing I would add on friendship is that the real issue with trying to be friends with an LO is the asymmetry of feeling (assuming that they are not limerent for you too). Even if your romantic/erotic impulse isn’t so dominant, it is hard to sustain a friendship where your emotional volatility is high and you want a very close bond, whereas they are looking for a “standard” friendship.
My suspicion is that it could be hard on you: wanting more contact, wanting closer contact, feeling that you have a special bond and feeling anxious and uncertain when LO does things without you or tires of your company.
The irony of course is that when you crave friendship it ends up destabilising the friendship. As with other forms of limerence, you are least likely to be vulnerable when you are living a purposeful and self-directed life. To put it in your terms – once you’ve rescued yourself…
Hi Dr Limerence,
Thank you for welcoming me here and for setting up this really useful site with all the information on limerence, in addition to fostering a good community of people who want to help each other through their shared experiences of limerence! 🙂 The advice I’ve been given so far as proven invaluable and made me feel less alone with going through my limerence.
I’m glad that when I said that my limerence, in this particular instance, is more friendship based than romantic, that it didn’t sound preposterous. I won’t deny, though, that the type of friendship that I really want from my LO is something they wouldn’t be able to give in return. At this point, it’s too early to tell how things could pan out for us if we are able to maintain our friendship, but I suspect if I don’t at least try and control these feelings and embrace what I do have from them, that it will end up just as you say: It will be unsustainable due to my emotional volatility.
That asymmetry you highlighted is something that I hadn’t considered, but thinking back on my actions with this LO, I think you have a valid point. I almost feel that, because of certain personal issues, what few friendships I’ve had, I’ve lost, is that in this particular instance, my limerence is trying to make up for lost time, and I am so desperate for friendship, that instead of being patient and working on it in a controlled and proper manner, letting things evolve naturally, this limerent tendency is going overboard to compensate for those losses, fast forward every step, and I am so desperate to escape my current reality that it’s actually making matters worse.
I am grateful, however, that when I have interacted with my LO, other than being a bit fidgety or nervous, that they aren’t aware just how intensive these feelings are and I have no intention of disclosing them because it will only jeopardize the friendship our parents have.
The one thing I have done, since this LE began, is that I have been channelling all the positive energy that I feel, on the occasions when I have felt it after seeing said LO, into making some crucial changes in my life. I now recognize how my personal issues, particularly my loneliness, is playing a major role in the cycle of limerence I find myself trapped in, and that, if I truly want to have control over it, then I need to accept that losing contact with people is part of life and I need to develop new ones if I am ever able to break free of this cycle.
Realistically, however, if I were somehow able to get control of my emotions and did back off a bit with my LO and made lifestyle changes, such as addressing the root cause of my loneliness, and my LO still wants a friendship after they move away, do you think it would be possible to be friends? I do accept, that if the worst comes to the worst, that I will have to do a form of NC with my LO, but it’s something I would prefer not having to do.
Hello LG
I would like to add that going NC once the friendship is established becomes more difficult …
I became friend with my Lo and its very difficult because I reach out a lotmore than him … he likes the attention though so we have found a balance!
However we never introduced our SOs and jts because we are borderline friend as he called it. We could be more but are not as we keep our red line uncrossed. Its fine we have found a balance however I caveat it with these comments:
1. If we are stuck in a room one day i cannot guarantee that we will remain clean
2. I crave his contact a lot more than With a normal friend
3. My SO is not aware of my friendship.
4. I cannot go Nc because we became codependent
I think it’s possible to be friends with your LO in the future. It may depend on how susceptible one is to limerence, and how much you can enforce discipline on your thoughts. I work with my LO, and don’t have any options other than forced normality.
There are weird secret overtones to the friendship which exist in my brain alone, though.
For instance, I still monitor her behavior closer than any other employee. I notice when she’s laughing or talking with others, and I experience microbursts of jealousy–she might be distant and distracted when I pop by her cubicle, and then a half-hour later, she’ll linger with somebody and have a grand ‘ol time discussing nothing. Which is totally normal, and I have to remind myself of that! Having her new SO working here helps in some strange way; hearing him call her ‘Babe’ quickly makes me recoil from thoughts of any kind of relationship with her other than work-related friendship.
Recently, she’s revisited some of the behavior that triggered my LE; on two separate occasions in recent weeks, she lavishly praised me and my accomplishments. In the past, those conversations would have sent me into an ecstatic burst of limerence. Now, of course, I’m aware that her words are dangerous to my future happiness, so I take them with a grain of salt, and just wonder to myself, Why is she feeling this way all of a sudden?
But it’s nice to have some equilibrium in our relationship again. We even went for lunch together last week, and I was delighted that it was fairly basic, just like any other employee, and I even felt, dare I say, a bit bored.
Hallelujah!
Hi Sara,
That’s part of the dilemma with this LE that I never faced with my previous LOs – the fact that not only am I driven because I want a friendship with them so much, but the fact they’re living with their parent, who is both good friends with my parent and me too, so NC is out the question, especially since I have been working on building both friendships up. At least with the other LOs, while they may have lived in the same neighborhood as me, neither my parent nor me really knew them that well, so, it was easier to let go and avoid them as we already had little to no contact.
With your situation, I can appreciate how tough it must be and the fine lines you and your LO must walk with your friendship, and how it isn’t an option to have NC. It’s kind of scary, thinking about my own future and how many LOs I have had so far, that when I do form a long-time romantic connection, that I could find myself with an LO despite being romantically involved, and reading this blog has opened my eyes to that possibility.
I am very lucky that, at worst, my LO thinks I am merely interested in them romantically, and that part of the reason they’re cautious about us sharing things like our numbers or e-mail addresses is because they don’t want to give further encouragement to what they think are my romantic intentions to them. In person, however, they’re quite friendly and outgoing when I have had the chance to interact with them and interested in me, so I am inclined to believe they don’t want to rush things too quickly and would prefer we have more solid foundations for a friendship.
The thing is, and, in all honesty, if I stripped away the limerence from my LO and merely focused on them, as a person, that I would be quite satisfied with the basic friendship we’ve formed. A year ago, I didn’t know they were going to live with their parent, so for us to have what we have now, I can tell you, if I knew then that we would have this level of friendliness, I would have taken it in a heartbeat.
Hi My Limerent Brain is an Idiot
With what you’ve experienced, it’s good that, however difficult it is to achieve it, that friendships with LOs are possible. Out of curiosity, does your LO know about your limerence for them or not?
From my perspective, as I’ve been pretty open about, that NC is not an option and even if it were, I’ve spent a good amount of time trying to build a friendship with both the LO and their parent. To disengage now would cause such drama, that it would probably require me telling them the extent of one’s limerence, ruining everything in the process. The damage left in the confession’s wake is something I prefer not to contemplate, knowing how devastating it would be.
I would love to reach the point where I can interact with my LO without having my LE satisfied by them simply acknowledging me, whether it’s driving past me in their car, smiling or saying hello to me. Those are the simplisitic triggers for me – and having been deprived of some of those basic things in my life, particularly from the opposite sex, it shouldn’t really be a surprise that I would be vulnerable to such gestures.
I also acknowledge, that what works for one person doesn’t necessarily work for someone else. Based upon what Rachel above said, that the situation with their LO was quite toxic and absolutely required them to go full NC when the opportunity arose. In your case, as work didn’t make it possible to go NC, you were able to come up with a way of working through your LE and have a friendship consequently.
How it plays out in my case, is anyone’s guess – having never gone through this before, I cannot say how my LO and our friendship will end up in the coming weeks and months. Ideally, we will continue to develop our friendship through their interest in my work as that’s one of the subjects we do talk about when it’s happened and failing that, having information passed between us through their parent, a form of communication we’ve actually been doing at present.
My other motivation for wanting to control my limerence, besides how crippling it is, is that I remember when I first met my LO two years ago and not having any limerent thoughts, merely thinking at the time what a nice and thoughtful person they were and finally meeting them after their parent had spoken quite frequently of them in our interactions at the time. A mutual friendship, one where I am not consumed by my limerence and one where we can both rely on one another as close to equally as we possibly can.
Hi, LG-
In response to your question, “Did your LO know about your feelings?”
She once disclosed to me that she loved me, and she also said, “We were meant to be together.” I also made it quite clear to her that I thought any guy who had a chance at her would be a fool not to give it everything he had. So we both knew we felt something special in our relationship.
But we were both married when we met. She divorced her husband a couple of years later, so obviously she was willing to look elsewhere. Prior to the divorce being finalized, she had already formed a secret attachment to one of our co-workers, but they kept that fact a deeply guarded secret.
Which all ended up helping me recover from limerence, because I lost some respect for her and no longer see her as this pure goddess of enchantment. In fact, I’d have to say that my LE is pretty much a done deal at this point, a long stretch of idiocy that I regard as a mental curiosity, an aberration in a long stretch of stability.
And it’s not going to happen again, thanks to this site and the painful forced education in my own brain’s pitfalls!
(thank you Dr. L)
Hi My Limerent Brain Is An Idiot,
Okay, thank you for clarifying! 🙂 I find it interesting that it took her to divorce her husband and forming an attachment to someone else to bring an end to your limerence, seeing her as a flawed individual as opposed being perfect as you thought she was.
As I mentioned on this page, while I may have never disclosed to any of my LOs about my limerence for them, it was LO3’s rejection of me when I asked for their number and expressing my interest in becoming friends with them that caused them to switch from an LO to “how foolish could I be?” To this day, it still astounds me how quickly that interaction shifted both my perception of them and the limerence I harbored. Far from being upset at their rejection, it was liberating as I was no longer prisoner to my limerence and the obsessions that it inflicted.
After that, I did interact with them prior to me moving away, as they and I were friendly with another neighbor in the area who often took walks with LO3. Our interactions, however, were polite and reserved, and nothing more.
“There are weird secret overtones to the friendship which exist in my brain alone, though.”
@My Limerent Brain Is An Idiot.
I think only a fellow limerent would understand what you mean here. But I get it. I really do.
Limerence can kind of be more than a friendship and less than stalking. One is paying just a little too much attention to everything about another person. Such hyper-focus on another is probably unhealthy, because, of course, it interferes with a purposeful life. Also, one can’t really have a normal work/social relationship with LO. There’s no such thing as “innocent flirting” with an LO.
We care way too much about what an LO might think about us, when the truth is, they’re probably not thinking about us…
Wow! Thanks for the link to Lucy’s work. She is brilliant! Going to get lost there for a
bit 😉
This is an interesting discussion, but I just wanted to add my two cents’ worth on a couple of points. I have taken the Myers-Briggs test a few times and I always seem to come out as an ENFP. I used to be quite skeptical of personality tests, but I think there must be something to them — especially when the description of my personality type matches me so well and the results are always the same. Still, there are some things to be aware of such as the fact that we can’t necessarily fit everyone neatly into 16 discrete personality categories. There are degrees of some of these dimensions (extroversion versus introversion for example — I for one am only a mild extrovert, and my personality type is such that even though we ENFPs are extroverts, we also frequently enjoy some time alone with our thoughts and reflections). The other thing I am not so sure about is the idea that our personalities are basically fixed for life. Coming back to extroversion, I find I am becoming more extroverted as I get older. However, I think there are some misconceptions about what extroversion actually means. Just because you’re an extrovert doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t be shy or reserved — particularly with new people. Extroverts are energized by other people, but there are shy extroverts — particularly mild extroverts like me (since introversion and extroversion can be viewed on a continuum and it isn’t a strict dichotomy). So, if I am only a mild extrovert, I might actually be close to an INFP in many ways, which is one of the types most commonly associated with limerence.
The other point I find interesting is the estimate that only about 5% of the population is limerent. With so much of pop culture (books, movies and music) dealing with themes so closely related to limerence (obsessions, crushes, infatuations, soul mates, twin flames, love at first sight, etc.) I actually find this hard to believe because it seems like a far higher percentage of the population must experience these types of feelings at some point in their lives. But again, is this just a case of a continuum? Could it be that a crush or infatuation might be very similar to but not as strong as full-blown limerence? Is that why these concepts seem to be so common in pop culture, even if actual limerence is actually fairly rare? Otherwise, I would think it would be difficult for most people to relate to these types of themes if they never experienced those feelings.
If the MBTI is administered professionally, you get scores for each element.
I’ve taken the test twice at work given by an MBTI consultant, about 15 years apart. I still tested ESTJ but some of the scores changed a lot:
E: 13/13 – No change
S: 27/22 – Slight drop
T: 36/24 – Big drop
J: 45/19 – Really big drop
But, if you read the descriptions of the types. I’m definitely ENTJ. I’ve just mellowed. I don’t know that I’ll ever switch types entirely but it appears possible.
I worked in a group of Engineers and we were all given the test together. Over 90% of them were ISTJs. As an ESTJ, I was the division party animal. Our idea of diversity was anyone with an “FP” in their profile. We had one guy who had no score above 10 in any category. We called him “The Chameleon.” We had another guy who tested ISTJ and had scores above 40 in each category. He was super smart but there was no world outside his box and a lot of jokes escaped him.
I seem to have a thing for XSFJs (Wife, LO #2 and PLO #1) although LO #4 is an INTJ. Conventional wisdom says my best ENTJ matches are INTP/ISTP. Switch them for ESTJ. I don’t know any that I’m aware of.
Definitely easy to see you as an engineer, Scharny. Someday we have to have a LwL convention.
Clip of the Day: “Date With An Engineer” – “Almost Live”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH_B66cSNxA
“Almost Live” was a local Seattle TV show in the 80s and 90s. My wife and I loved it.
I think on the pop culture point, it is a continuum as you suggest @VL. Limerence is a very specific thing – an involuntary obsession – you can’t shake LO from your mind no matter how hard you try and it takes over your whole world.
To me, that isn’t a crush – its much more all-encompassing than that. Its not love either, because you can love someone without being obsessed (and I have done so). You can still feel that someone is “the one”, experience love at first sight, and all those themes you see in pop culture without it being an involuntary obsession. Limerence is abnormal in that respect.
I do think people use Limerence when they mean a crush or love, and use the term LO when they mean someone they are interested in. What’s that phrase, “to a hammer everything looks like a nail”? Once you learn about Limerence you start to see it everywhere, but those stats probably suggest that you don’t.
Hi Vincent,
That’s the thing that really makes limerence stand out, in my experience, compared to genuine romantic love, is that it’s an all-consuming obsession more resembling OCD. Not only are we obsessed with trying to become involved with our LOs, our days can revolve around ensuring that we see them and vice versa, going to incredible lengths to engineer such an encounter without it appearing like harrassment or stalking. Depending on the outcome, these incidents can lead to euphoria or despair; or how we absolutely must carry out these rituals even when we’re completely exhausted.
That’s why I wonder whether or not sufferers of OCD are more predisposed toward developing limerence, due to the obsessive nature that it brings out. I can’t begin to tell you how many hours in a day I’ve wasted during my LEs simply because I failed to carry out one of my rituals. When the limerence does clear, no longer being at the whim of an all consuming obsession is completely liberating to say the least.
Very good points. Limerence does feel so much stronger than a simple crush. I get crushes once in a while and they are much much easier to manage than this obsession I have with a woman who is basically a stranger to me (and I haven’t even laid eyes on her in nearly seven months). Still, I think some regular commenters on here might argue that limerence isn’t entirely involuntary and we can actually manage it (I agree up to a point, but I also believe we kind of have to let it run its course to a certain extent).
How is this for a pop culture reference to something that sounds like limerence: Stricken, by Distured. According to the singer, David Draiman, this song is “About those moments when someone comes into your life and it’s almost as if you’ve been afflicted with a disease you can’t get rid of; devastating and debilitating.”
Below are some lyrics:
“That I am stricken and can’t let you go
When the heart is cold, there’s no hope, and we know
That I am crippled by all that you’ve done
Into the abyss will I run
You don’t know what your power has done to me
I want to know if I’ll heal inside
I can’t go on with a holocaust about to happen
Seeing you laughing another time
You’ll never know why your face has haunted me
My very soul has to bleed this time
Another hole in the wall of my inner defenses
Leaving me breathless, the reason I know
That I am stricken and can’t let you go
When the heart is cold, there’s no hope, and we know
That I am crippled by all that you’ve done
Into the abyss will I run
Into the abyss will I run”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I77mjesUbkw
When LO was in love with me, ( I was limerent he normally in love ) we had kind of the same behaviour at some point, so it looked all normal. but I noticed I was more anxious and more thinking about ” what if we don’t end up”. He also did not have the crushing lows, he could continue with his all day happy life even when we did not or could not see each other, he was still happy.
The difference became even more clear in Coronatime where we could not see each other for 5 months. He could still be happy in life, while I needed him to be happy and I lost control over my mind and will. The biggest difference was also I objectively did not find LO attractive, I did not like his voice his looks some aspects of his personality, we had nothing in common and yet I was so crazy in love, it felt weird, as if there was something off, like I was under a spell. Sometimes I looked at him and wondered why on earth I liked him so much. I’m not OCD in life but I do have addiction and depression in my family and have not very big but some abandonment issues, I m also sure the circumstances where set up for me to become massively limerent.
And adding, I noticed that LO cared for my wellbeing. While I thought I cared for his well being but in fact I didn’t give a hood about his well being, all I wanted was reciprocation. And if it would make LO unhappy and miserable, so be, even better so it would proof his love.
That’s not love though.
My apologies for spamming this thread with my issues, but I wanted to post an update about where things stand with me and the LO.
Now, I’ve since learned that the reason my LO is moving is because they’ve been lucky enough to not only get a job, but have found a place to live where this job is located. Were it not for that, they would still be living with their parent and I wouldn’t be going through this agony. Regardless, I am happy for them despite my limerence and do sincerely wish them all the best.
As anticipated, my anxiety levels are in over-drive and unfortunately, I am spending a lot of my waking hours thinking about my LO and their impending departure. If they were taking a lot of valuable space in my head before, they’re taking up even more now. I also had some further confirmation why true NC with them is going to almost impossible – their parent noted to me that LO intends to come back and visit once or twice a month, so unless their visits coincide with occasions I don’t encounter them, I will still see them every so often.
However, there is some good news, and it’s largely to do with our friendship, or rather, the basic friendship we enjoy. In having conversed with the community here about limerence and discovering more about it than I ever realized, it’s given me a lot to think about, specifically I’ve been going over my relationship with LO and our nascent friendship.
Now, it’s occurred to me that, outside of a few conversations when we’ve interacted in person, that for the most part, I don’t know my LO as well and we’re not as close as I always imagined, that the friendship footing I believed we enjoy is predicated on these limited conversations and the amount of information that’s been exchanged between us through their parent without us actually conversing with the other.
The real confirmation of this was an incident recently when I offered to exchange my phone number with them and they declined the invitation, but suggested an online medium to communicate instead. It didn’t seem to raise any alarm bells at the time, but I’ve discovered they’re not that active on there and the thought of barely interacting with them has made my anxiety grow exponentially, questioning why they would do that despite our nascent friendship? Now, I know why: They don’t consider me as close a friend as I thought we were, and that, before exchanging numbers, they would rather they knew me better as a person, an understandable position to have.
That isn’t to say we won’t communicate online or grow our friendship, but I am now beginning to understand how much my fantasizing has created a wholly different picture of both the friendship I thought we had and who my LO is a person. I’ve been so consumed by wanting to get to know them, the information I’ve heard from their parent about who they are and interpreting taking the baby steps we’ve made as giant leaps, that I’ve been blinded to the reality that they and I don’t know each other well as people, that communicating through their parent is no substitute for actual proper interactions of our own. Of all the things that is making me hurt at the moment, it’s this knowledge, because it speaks to the heart of my limerence, that I found it easier to become obsessed by a fantasy of my own creation without actually making more of a serious effort to become better acquainted with said LO and for them to become better acquainted with me.
I’ve spoken with my LO since they rejected my phone number, and they’re still interested in interacting with me and staying in touch, even after they move, so I am not wrong in saying that we have a nascent friendship. Rather, I have to accept we’re not as close as I thought, that their interpretation of what we have is different from mine, that there’s a genuine possibility that we will have limited communication with one another in the coming months, unless something changes and we do become closer. I should also add, that, prior to the phone number conversation and their impending move, that they had proposed that we meet up a couple of times when the lockdowns eased and restaurants opened, so again, there’s an interest on their part for us to become better acquainted, just taken one step at a time, however.
I think what’s been making me hurt in particular, with what I’ve realized, is that it’s only in the past few months, with the lockdowns being imposed, did either of us truly make a bit more headway to developing a friendship and how much further along we could have been if we had reached out to the other when they moved in with their parent close to a year ago.
Hi Lg, you dont have to apologize for writing and venting, that’s what we all do here, and sometimes a lot in a periode when are hurting.
Yes it’s common that limerent somehow kind of miss judge or give more meaning to the interaction.
How can we not when we have this enormous strong compelling almost spiritual feelings for this person! (Nothing spiritual here , just our cocktail of hormones wanting, forcing us to bond, so we loose reality, nature doesn’t care , it just wants us to connect, add a little scarcity and our nerve system goes on fire.) And Lg don’t beat Yourself up with the ” if only” and the ” what if we started sooner” . You dont know the what if. You have no clue.
Just be soft and compassionate with yourself and keep us posted.
@Mia
Thanks for understanding what I’m feeling at the moment; it’s hard to be easy on oneself when, outside of the people on this forum, no one knows the magnitude of the pain I’m feeling and the burden of the secret that is limerence. No matter the difficulty, I must remain positive and will be glad that when this turmoil finally passes.
That’s the thing I appreciate about this forum – being able to talk openly about the cause of the turmoil I’m going through and not to be judged for how limerence has such an impact on your life – whether it’s the way you feel or makes you act.
It doesn’t matter how many times one goes through limerence, the intensity of the emotions it triggers gets me everytime. One of the other emotional triggers that I am having with LO’s imminent departure is one that I’ve felt when I’ve moved away from a place that I’ve become attached to, an association that I believe is happening because (1. This LO is the one I know the best of all my LOs, despite what I think are my failures in not becoming better acquainted with them and even through my limerent fog, I do care about them as any caring and compassionate person would; (2. LO is obviously moving away, something that has never happened to me before, so my ability to cope is being overwhelmed as my other LEs didn’t involve said LO moving.
The closest time that I thought I would be confronted with a situation like this was with LO3 – I was in the midst of my limerence with them when, a few months later, I was destined to move away. I did wonder how things would be, if I were to secure a friendship/relationship with them and/or still limerent, how would I cope with subsequently moving away and not seeing them? Their rejection of me a few weeks later helped answer that question, ending that limerent episode for good.
What astounds me with that LE was how easy it was to withdraw from the limerence when I was rejected and it certainly made the move away a lot easier – in fact, three months after that, I went onto have my first reciprocal romance, a short-lasting affair that, to touch on what you mentioned in your post above, Mia, made me appreciate just how different romantic love and limerence are. We unfortunately went our separate ways over a non-negotiable issue that meant neither of us could realistically stay together, despite how much we felt about the other.
I do think it’s a positive, that I am recognizing some simple truths about where me and my LO are at the moment, friendship wise; to be reflective of how my judgment’s been clouded by my flights of limerent fantasy is a step I need to make, if I am ever to be cured of my limerence for them, to make that difficult transition from seeing them as an object of my fantasy to seeing them for who they really are and as a real friend.
The reality is, limerence aside, they do consider me a friend; none of the interactions I’ve had with them have been negative; they made the cafe/restaurant invitations and yes, they still suggested an alternative to me having their phone number, a means of communication that also gives them the chance to keep an eye on my work by extension, which I know they’re interested in. Is it less than I hoped? Sure, but I would take this basic friendship over them rejecting and not wanting to have anything to do with me anyday of the week, and, unlike LO3, this rejection would have hurt even more because I know their parent.
Furthermore, I knew of all three of my previous LOs for a much longer period and did not have the types of meaningful conversations that I have had with LO4 and there remains the groundwork for us to become better acquainted as time progresses. Six months ago, before I went completely limerent for them, the thought of actually being able to say that we’re actually following each other on social media, that we do call each other friends is something I couldn’t have imagined would have taken place. It doesn’t ease the pain, but it’s a reminder to be less hard on myself, when compared to my previous LOs, I’ve actually come along way this time around and hopefully that’s a sign I can finally get a grip on my limerence going forward.
I finally have a term for the issue that’s been plaguing me for the last six years! Amazing!
And I am INFJ, so there’s another mark for that.
Welcome Wissa.
Hello Dr L!
I was wondering if you’ve ever heard of hypnosis being a successful way of dealing with limerence? I thought I had pretty solid ‘roots of healing’ but one birthday text from him sends me right back to hell of rumination. I am desperate especially that my marriage is at stake.
Hi Ellie,
Surprisingly, no. A couple of people have said they were going to try it, but I can’t remember anyone reporting success.
I’m rather sceptical, to be honest, given the shaky evidence base…
Interesting! Just makes a lot of sense to see if it works since hypnosis addresses your subconscious brain and this is where LO is rooted (at least for me). We had an EA, for one time it turned physical which caused my cognitive dissonance to skyrocket and tell my SO. Since then I have very limited contact with LO (colleagues unfortunately) and focused on rebuilding my marriage with much success. When out of the affair fog I can clearly see how LO is narcissistic, manipulative and I am not attracted to him. It is my subconscious that sometimes just causes some unexplainable magnetic craving for him. I feel like I’ve done a lot of conscious work, I understand why the affair happened, what I saw in him etc but it is the deeper layer of my mind that still needs addressing. And that’s why I think I might give hypnotherapy a shot and maybe share here! I’ll truly do anything to prevent affair relapse.
Hey
I had a hypnotherapy to help me over come limerence by and very high paid recommend therapist. Unfortunately, it did not work for me. I thought exactly the same about it reprogramming the subconscious. I was quite disappointed to be honest. But that is just my personal experience.
For me, it’s my subconscious who craves connection ( aka safety) and who linked LO to connection and core safety. My system has LO wired to my core need. In fact it has nothing to do with LO.
That’s why telling myself I shouldn’t be so hooked and act not so silly and obsessive rational does not work. It’s deeper.
What i think will work for me ( with keeping NC of course and besides a purposefull life than absolutely works )is an imagination exercise With a therapist to go back to the time there might have been a moment my needs where not being met as a child, not necessarily a big trauma, but my limerence has to do with insecurity and an anxious attachment style ( not a disorder ). Than giving the younger me what it than needed ( by telling this as of present time) and let this ” new memory” sink in the unconscious mind. I hope it will heal some of my deep roots for being a multiple limerent.
It has worked before when I had a lot of anxiety about work.
For who is interested this is spot on for me, why LO seems so massively important and why I can’t let go
:
https://youtu.be/4YA2QJYE7XI
Thanks for the link Mia.
I think it would be worth while talking to a therapist who works with attachment maybe? As Mia said the problem is not LO, the problem lies within us.
I’m an INFJ, limerent for someone who is also an INFJ! I’m hoping they are limerent for me too, although what good can come out of it I don’t know.
I went back and reread Lucy’s article. The paragraph about INs being most prone to limerence makes sense.
What MBTI types do you think would have the most untapped romance in their souls? When I was in my LE with INTJ LO #4, I thought there was this well of romance and passion waiting to be let loose.
If I could capture her mind, I’d get everything she had to offer. As I came out of the LE, I thought I was probably wrong about that and it’s really unlikely I’ll ever be in the position to find out.
I must be one of the lone INTPs in here?
Chart says that we’re still over-represented in Limerence, compared to our representation in the population.
That INTP hallmark of “deep analytical observation and consideration of things we don’t fully understand, like feelings… be it our own or others” goes hand in hand with limerence as far as I’m concerned.
You’re not alone. Always and forever an INTP.
First time I was called stoic was by a friend in sixth grade. His observation had some faults. I didn’t lack emotion, I only lacked the outward expression of emotion. For me, LO1 somehow (I’m talking recent LO’s in this case), and this is partially in response to Scharnhorst’s “well of romance and passion waiting to be let loose” comment, somehow . . . she uncorked me. Her response to a letter to her was “It was so heartfelt and and you know me so well”, which was unfortunate since we’re both unavailable (married with children). This is what still haunts me. I fully accept that the only relationship that I had with her was fantasy, but it indicates that I am capable of so much more than what I have — and what I want — than I have with my SO. Damned scary thoughts/feelings, but they’re mine.
BTW, I really like how this article describes INTP’s — fits me to a ‘T’:
https://www.truity.com/blog/intj-vs-intp-how-tell-them-apart
Pretty dead on. Everything except the “party animal” bit, although the “goofy” it there in spades. Thanks for the link.
I’m an INTP too. I believe we are more susceptible to limerence than other personality types due to our natural tendency to ruminate. (Rumination = analysing the behaviour of other people, including any LOs or potential LOs in the environment). On the other hand, I believe that we do such a thorough job of analysing that eventually, by logic alone, we discover LO’s flaws and realise they were never worthy of such exalted regard from anybody in the first place!!
Example: I’ve recently found out my college LO was really mean to other people in our friendship group. I.e. nowhere near as perfect as imagined. In fact, my LO wasn’t just disloyal to me. She apparently had poor character in general. Ugh!
INFJ right here…
Last Tuesday after I said here that I’m an INFJ, I posted to my Facebook Story that I’m an INFJ.
Facebook Stories are temporary posts that last for 24 hours. If your story is public, people who are not on your friends list can still see your post. You can see the names of all your friends who looked at it, and if someone you’re not friends with looks at your story, at the very bottom of this list of friends will appear “Others – 1” or “Others – 2.” But you can’t see who they are. Nearly every time I post a FB Story, there’s at least 1 or 2 “Others” at the bottom of the list.
It’s clear that 2 people I don’t know and are not friends with are routinely searching for my profile and seeing what I write. I’ve tried blocking people to see who the mysterious “Others” are, but I’ve never been successful and I still don’t know. Of course, I like to think that LO3 is the mysterious “Other” who keeps appearing.
Anyway, on Tuesday I post to to the Story that I’m an INFJ.
On Wednesday, LO3 posts on her social media account that she’s an ISFJ.
As someone prone to limerence, I know I like to “read into things to find hidden signs that LO3 wants me.” But it’s difficult to tell myself I’m full of crap when there’s wild coincidences like this.
I know that all too well: Constantly looking for some hidden, telegraphed signals through social media that aren’t apparent to the public but known only to you and LO, while keeping some thin veneer of plausible deniability. For the longest time, my LO and I had the exact same number of FB friends. I mean the exact same. When I would add someone new, she would as well soon thereafter to match me once again. And vice versa.
I hardly ever post anything about my SO, and LO is pretty much the same way about her SO. But months ago, I made a rare post about my SO with a very flattering photo and gave her a lot of much-deserved social media attention. Within just a few minutes of my post, LO posted a pic of her and her SO being very affectionate. She then logged off for the rest of the day.
So yeah, I know the feeling. Have you read the post on social media and limerence? It’s a good one.
B- you have to figure that if you and I as introverts like to signal through social media because it’s less emotionally stressful, then other introverts probably do the same.
Example:
LO3 is part of a dance troupe that by coincidence practices out of the university from which I graduated 25 years ago. They practice in the large meeting space in front of the school’s bookstore. Last September I was at the university, stopped by the school bookstore to buy a shirt, and then purposefully did a check-in on Facebook at the bookstore to “signal” LO3 (at least in my mind) that I was thinking of her. Three days later during dance practice, LO3 posts a video of her and her friend horsing around in front of the bookstore, with the entrance sign in full view, while LO3 is blushing.
Meanwhile, me and LO3 never talk to each other.
Yeah, once I stopped looking for signs, I stopped finding them. Go figure.
Cynthia Heimel once said:
“You love somebody, and then you don’t love them anymore. But if you really love somebody, you always love them, don’t you? Isn’t there always some small part of you that reads their horoscope in the paper everyday?” – Cynthia Heimel, A Girl’s Guide To Chaos
I agree with the second sentence and used to agree with the third but not anymore. Just don’t.
Now, I limit “signs” to dreams. In none of my dreams about LO #2 did we ever stay together or reconcile. In the last few dreams I had about her, we’ve reached detente.
In none of my dreams about LO #4 did I ever mean anything to her. In at least half of them, I never even got to meet her.
The therapist said “Your subconscious doesn’t lurk far below the surface” and it knows what the right answer is. She said my problem was when I tried to work against it. We spent a lot of time working on what was compelling me to work against my own best interest.
@Scharnhorst – I’m an analyst by profession. After decades of this work I have fallen into the habit of looking at everything in terms of probability. Is something related to something else? Or is it just a coincidence? In either case, what are my metrics for determining causality?
It’s come in handy as a limerent – “She parked next to me. But did she park next to me over the course of days? No. Is there an indication that she is always parking near me? No. Conclusion: Just because she parked next to me doesn’t mean she’s interested in me.”
But then onto the Meyers-Briggs coincidence: “I have never posted my M-B type. LO3 has never posted her M-B type. I posted my M-B for the first time ever on a Facebook Story on Tuesday. As indicated by the “Other – 1,” one person I do not know specifically searched for my profile and saw my M-B type. Conclusion: no indication that LO3 saw it. Within 15 hours LO3 posts her M-B type for the first time. Conclusion: Exceptionally unlikely that it’s a coincidence.”
And this is at odds with my knowing I’m a limerent who’s at-risk of fantasizing.
Unfortunately, they’re indirect indicators.
There’s a great story about how the US cracked the Japanese JN-25 code in WWII. To test it, they had Midway Island send a message in plain English that their seawater distilling unit had broken and they were low on fresh water. A few days later they intercepted a Japanese message saying the code name was low on fresh water.
Repeating myself, yet again, when LO #2 sent the FB request I checked her out pretty thoroughly. She runs a pretty tight FB page but she left her friends open to the public, he doesn’t have all that many of them, and only ~10 of them are men. Guess what? One of them has her all over his page. Nothing on her public page about him. What does that imply? Why would she send me a FB friend request when they’re obviously together? Who’s she sending a message to and what is the message? I’ve speculated about that elsewhere.
I sometimes released information to see if anyone takes the bait. I kept track of them for awhile and I noticed parallel posts starting on his page. Coincidence? Maybe.
I blocked both of them for awhile. I got tired of having them come up in my search string. I eventually unblocked them. She’s still on FB but he isn’t. That piqued my curiosity so I looked at her public records (again). Public records are great. I knew when she got married the first time, when she filed for divorce, who she married, where she lived, when she moved in with the guy, when they married, where they bought a house and that her elderly mother is now living with them. I saw pictures of her mother’s house up for sale. The one time I got in it, the place was a dump and the only difference 30 years later was it was an empty dump.
When I checked him out the first time, he had hundreds of FB friends, many of whom are attractive women. Why did he disappear off FB? I can think of a few reasons.
I have no idea of what living with LO #2 today is like. LO #2 and I never lived together. When I think about it, in the 4 years we were together, I don’t think we ever spent more than 4-5 days continuously together. But, we spent enough time together for me to learn she had a few quirks. If her mother’s living with them, it can’t be all that great. I knew her parents and they weren’t very pleasant people. Her mother had all the charm of a North Korean prison guard.
It’s pissy but I hope that on her deathbed, LO #2’s last thought is of me. If I ever go back on the market, I might publicly change my relationship status and see if I get any hits.
So, what if she is keeping tabs on you? Assume she is. How is knowing going to make your life better, aside from all the time you can kill thinking about it? Playing this game can be a whole lot of fun if you can keep it in perspective.
Just after I mentioned my LO has a “kick-ass body” here on LwL, she changed her Facebook profile pic to a gorgeous picture of herself in a bikini. Certain body parts appear to defy gravity in that photo. 🙂 I still sometimes think she might be following here because she may currently be or may have previously been limerent for my brother in-law, but I am sure it is just a coincidence! Probably all in my mind. On the other hand, I wouldn’t want her to see some of my posts because I would be embarrassed and I did admit that she has some minor physical flaws (Don’t we all though?).
I posted a 2nd Facebook Story at the same time yesterday about my dog, and coincidentally another FB post that happened to be about dogs, too. The only time I’ve seen LO3 in the last 10 months, I was holding my dog. It’s a small adult dog and always gets confused as being a puppy.
A few hours later LO3 posts a “get to know me” post where she said she liked travelling, certain TV shows, and said “dogs are cute, especially puppies, but I’m a cat person.”
My analyst side is saying, “So what? She likes cats.” But my limerent side is saying, “That’s an odd way to phrase ‘I’m a cat person’… people don’t usually have to state that they don’t dislike dogs if they like cats and vice-versa… and there was the M-B thing earlier… and the fact that I posted just twice about my dog… is she signaling me??”
She just started a book review page. I figured I’d stop the silliness in my head by posting a few places that references my being an author, and see if she posts something soon about wanting to write a book. When she doesn’t, I’ll be knocked back to reality. Reality is a bitter but healthy pill, and I need a dose of it.
I broke down in the most horrible, grovelling way. I literally begged her to have anything to do with me. Now I hate myself and dont even know how I can wake up tomorrow. If I got hit by a bus, there would be no complaints. If I could crush myself, I surely would. If she had one shred of respect for me, it is surely gone now. Why could I bring it here? I just want to bury my head in the sand…worst…day…ever…
Ooh Steve. So sorry to hear.
Did you find a therapist already?
The beginning is the hardest. We all know, we wanted to die or crawl away, we thought of ourselves as weak and above all we thought we would never get out of this. When I read my journal from 3 months ago I’m kind of shocked, I was so deeply misserable I hung on to everything and wishing and thinking it was over when I had one good moment, to realize the next moment it wasn’t over. By far.
Don’t hate yourself, have compassion, you are addicted, it’s tough. Listen to the calm adult in you, he is still there somewhere.
Thx Mia…lf lcan rearrange work stuff or do online l might check myself into a facility of some sort…maybe rehab cuz l don’t want psychiatric hospital. I just want to be some where isolated from damage l am causing myself. SO might agree…l guess l am at that point. Prozac not nearly potent enough. I just can’t shut up my brain.
I hope you are doing well Mia
I am in fact, thank you, I have been feeling happy for the last 4 days so fingers crossed my hard work is starting to pay off.
I worked in a psychiatric hospital for 20 years and I’m pretty sure you don’t need that. Unless you are a danger to yourself ( not money wise) or others I think what you need is a psychotherapist, who you can talk to and who takes a look at where your limerence comes from so you untangle the puzzle, heal some wounds maybe learn to have compassion and learn how to cope in the future. Just taking Prozac is fixing the symptoms. Maybe rehab will be good too, in rehab they also look at the cause of it all.
Glad to hear things are getting a bit easier Mia! x
Steve I am right there with you tonight. I begged LO for a reason why he went cold and he told me he needed to separate himself from the situation and that it had nothing to do with me. I told him I would help by blocking him so I wouldn’t be tempted to contact him, and before I could even say thank you and goodbye he had already blocked me. My anxiety and hurt is so acute I do not know I will survive the night or next day. I live my SO and children who have no idea what is going on. How can I live?
Gees Chicster…l don’t know how we do. I just keep coming back to this..”when you’re in hell, keep going”
Just keep going Chicster. I’m not even sure how we will. I feel shattered today so you are not alone. After l sent money to LO again and no reply, l got quite nasty which is not my norm. I wish l could have at least kept that card as sthing to hold on to. Limerence never gives you enough…take take take. Suck it up Chicster and write, cry, howl…
I hope we can laugh at this some day.
I like the idea of writing. I need to sort it out on paper. And I, too, wish I could have kept so many things that are now given away with a negative return on investment. At the moment that which tortures me the most is how embarrassed I feel that I pestered LO to give me answers so much that he disappeared. I am thinking today about acting as if the movie of my life has been fast forwarded 2 weeks and I have done some recovery. I hope this will help me tend to some of the neglect that happened because of my LE. Steve, what is the next right thing to do? If it is as simple as eating half a banana and a cuppa tea maybe that’s a start. Wishing you well.
Chicster, all you need to do the next days is indeed eat a little and keep breathing. if you can cry that would be super. Cry, cry, cry.
I started writing down everything, every thought every feeling.
In fact I wanted to write down everything I felt that day since I have a history ( obviously) with numming feelings. I let myself feel everything
Bordom, check
Loneliness, check
Embarrassment, check
Dispair, check.
Boredom was my friend, my antidote for limerence. ( Oh and I had to stop alcohol, it made it 200x worse).
I knew I had to feel to get better. I wrote down all the little steps a made ( today I took a shower, yeah, today I laughed)
Than after a while I started to meditate just 15 minutes a day, than I started to read about limerence, anxious attachment styles and everything that could apply to me ( be careful not to over diagnose yourself) than I started to talk to a therapist and started rescripting therapy, than I started seeing friends, than I started to take care of orphan plants and animals and in the last weeks I started to exercise again .
But of course you have to look for your own path. The best advice I can give is be gentle to yourself and know it’s s rocky road but you will come out stronger and more in balance than ever before .
Really.
I’ve found writing is helpful as well. I learned some things that made so much sense once I put thoughts into words. But I still have the nagging temptation for the journaling to become a letter to LO, which is fine I guess but then I want to give it to her which I know is a terrible idea and would be a huge setback. It’s that lie of needing closure. Damn closure. So beware, writing is healthy but don’t let your lying manipulative limerent brain start to hijack the process.
I’m told I’m ESTP or maybe ISTP/ISTJ. …… Yeah this “limerence” stuff is a mindfuck to me, it’s not my normal state for sure. Just sayin’
There’s a reason I keep putting the “LE” and “LO” and whatever words in quotes.
Oh and the “LO” was INFP, by their own admission (they took the test for some job interview). He could totally be the type to be easily limerent lol, MBTI or not, but I don’t know if that’s why he was chasing me for so long.
As a person googling and finding out what I’ve been doing all my life is called something like “Maladaptive Daydreaming” I recently discovered my limerents were the main fuel for them and I’ve been traveling from one LO to another and obsessively repeat same toxic stories about them over months or even years a few time a day by listening to music.
I think very fundamental cause is just OCD mixed with low self-esteem, narcissism, sensitivity.
And in general “Limerence” is a natural human behavior based on sexual desire. It’s just a normal thing that we simply hear it as “Love at first sight”! So everyone has experienced it but people like me do it more intensely and doing it to the point of self-destruction!
Farfar,
“So everyone has experienced it”
I don’t think everyone has experienced it. I think some people have never experienced it. It’s just not how they are wired. They choose romantic partners based on more practical considerations — are we compatible? do we have similar goals and values? I’m not saying they don’t have strong feelings for their SO, but they filter for the other factors first. Some choose based on the most practical consideration of all: Who is showing up the most consistently? 🙂 At the end of the day, we all have to filter for that one factor first. If we did, none of us would be stuck in limbo because, in many cases, the LO is not serious and is just playing.
I agree, Marcia. Some people may be wired to fall more easily into limerence.
Some, like myself, are thrown in to the ring due to unfortunate circumstances.
Certainly, most of us have had crushes and/or been attracted to people other than our SO. That’s common.
Limerence is something else entirely. It’s destructive.
Beth,
“Certainly, most of us have had crushes and/or been attracted to people other than our SO. That’s common. Limerence is something else entirely. It’s destructive.”
You can immediately tell a non-limerent from a limerent when you describe limerence to the person. A fellow limerent will understand that the experience has shaken your very soul. A non-limerent, however, will almost be dismissive and tell you to walk away if your LO is not available. That, yes, sure, they, too, have had other attractions, but doesn’t everyone? (And a part of you dies because you think, if your LO has reciprocated at all, that that is how they have experienced you. A little ripple on the pond.)
I read Tennov’s book recently and she seemed to define limerence in two subtly different ways:
1. A word to differentiate two forms of romantic love: falling “in love’ and “real attached love”. A non-limerent being someone that never falls in love, but does experience lust and loves romantically in the real attached way. I would assume these non-limerent’s form a minority % of the population judging by the experiences of everyone I know.
2. A form of being in-love that is extra obsessive, intrusive, addicted, fantasy fuelled, and often continues for a long time despite lack of a proper romantic relationship. In this case a non-limerent is someone that might well fall passionately in love in a real romantic relationship, but they move on emotionally if it just isn’t happening. They do not get stuck.
Which type limerent does the above 5% of the population statistic apply to, 1 or 2?
Views invited… (especially from DrL)
I’m not a lifelong limerent and fall under #2.
Mine was circumstantial. Recently separated at the end of a long marriage and “starved for love” (my then therapist). I met a man from a social media group. He lived far away. He pursued and seemed to want a serious relationship. We connected on many levels. We met and although it went well, he pulled away afterward. We stayed in touch daily but “no long distance relationship,” he said. I tried NC then LC. He’d push me away then pull me back emotionally.
He had many issues (3 divorces, alcohol and overt anxiety) and my therapist said he was “broken.” He’s someone I would not have dated at another time of my life. There’s a childhood issue there, I’m sure.
The “need to be needed” was in play for me. He’d suffered in his relationships, and I wanted him to be happy.
My therapist was stumped as my attachment went on for months.
The mix led to limerence. I’ve spent thousands of hours analyzing him, myself. He and I would discuss everything, even my deep caring for him and my inability to get past it.
I’m going full NC, because I can. No FB cheats, left our mutual sites long ago, and cut ties with online friends.
Having a name for it helps. For now. I feel less foggy. I’ve been in a funk over this for two years. Could not enjoy life. Barely functioned at work. Dated, had lovers but nothing helped. Everything connected to him. Still does but I’m taking it back. Slowly
Beth,
“He had many issues (3 divorces, alcohol and overt anxiety) and my therapist said he was “broken.” He’s someone I would not have dated at another time of my life. There’s a childhood issue there, I’m sure. The “need to be needed” was in play for me. He’d suffered in his relationships, and I wanted him to be happy.
My therapist was stumped as my attachment went on for months.”
This guy is a fixer’s paradise. Multiple divorces, substance abuse, and anxiety? You hit the Trifecta! Do you know anything about his family? What did you connect over? You said that under normal circumstances you wouldn’t date him. You’ve mentioned that in several posts. So, why did you? Your situation explains why you’d be looking but something about this guy hooked you.
How is your STBXLO different from you ex-husband? Maybe the reason this was your first LE was because he was the first person you encountered who’s glimmer sang to you. When I started dating LO #2, I really didn’t know what about her attracted me so strongly. When I encountered LO #4, I’d already done some work and I knew what was singing to me. LO #4’s contribution to my life was forcing me to go back and deal with those issues so I would never do it again.
Did the therapist ever explore your side of things? There’s always a reason behind “need to be needed.” Fixers are made, not born. Why did you think you’d be the one to save him?
It sounds like you made the classic mistake of reversing cause and effect. People aren’t the way they are because of the relationships they have, they have the relationships they have because of who they are. Did you think that if you thought you did the NAWALT routine on him, he’d come around. But, if he has crappy relationships because of who he is, it’s like painting over a rust spot. You may be able to bring him around for a short time but he’ll constantly go out of calibration and you have no idea why. It will drive you nuts.
Once I figured that out, a whole lot of things started to make sense. I stopped beating my head against the wall and focused myself. Unless you’re Billy Idol, it takes two to do this dance.
But, did you ever figure out the driver behind your desire to make him happy? What was in that for you because there was something? Was there a co-dependent component to your marriage?
You asked many questions. All excellent! My marriage had no intimacy and a spouse who was unwilling/unable to make changes to improve that. I was at fault as well. I advocated for change but not soon enough. Letting walls be built, as well as resentment, didn’t help either of us. So when I met LO, who seemed to desire intimacy, sharing, it was very appealing. Issues aside, he’s witty, charming, intelligent. We shared a lot of the same passions. I viewed him as someone who, through bad luck and choices, was not living his best life. When I was upset about my separation or even about my relationship with him, he was supportive. I wanted to be someone who was on his side, so to speak. The way I was raised, my childhood, watching my father struggle with these issues (mostly self-perceived failure) played a part. But also…someone who cares for and needs me so much will appreciate me. Never leave me.
He’s not the only one with issues…! I’m generally seen as a confident, outgoing person. Professional at my job. Good, longtime friends. My marriage was a fantastic partnership. It evolved into a fresh with mutual interests…our kids.
This article is probably the best answer to the question, Allie.
It has become complicated that there are kind of two versions of limerence – the general description of the mental state of intense infatuation, and the more problematic transition to person addiction and intrusive, obsessive thoughts. In my view the first can lead to the second under some circumstances (and for some people), but they are both aspects of limerence.
“I read Tennov’s book recently and she seemed to define limerence in two subtly different ways.”
@Allie.
Yes, I can see how Tennov’s book can be confusing in some ways. She does a wonderful job of introducing us to this phenomenon called limerence. I will always feel grateful to her for laying down the foundation stones. And yet some of her ideas and findings and reflections do seem to contradict each other at times…
Limerence seems to be:
(1) Something that’s very difficult to get over. Can’t get the person out of one’s head.
(2) Something that often leads to pair-bonding. (Not sure what couples consisting of two non-limerents might be doing with each other! Are two non-limerents not also engaging in pair-bonding?) 😛
(3) Something that can unleash a magical fantasy world in some people – people who are likely to be highly imaginative and emotional in the first place.
(4) Something that causes great happiness?
(5) Something that causes great misery?
Prior to falling into limerence, I felt miserable and wanted someone to comfort me. I see the happiness-misery sea-saw as part of longing.
“I see the happiness-misery sea-saw as part of longing”
Yeah that is one of the most soul destroying aspects of limerence isn’t it.
My happiness-misery seesaw is a cycle of compulsive addiction. I am happy after I get an LO fix (real or imagined) but miserable when I cannot get another fix, either due to limited contact with LO, or a loss of hope killing my fantasy (a.k.a. reality kicking in!).
I am on a “drug” withdrawal downer at the moment… am trying to harness it as a motivator to break my mind free of it, but it sometimes feels easier just to let myself drown in what feels to me like heartbreak.
“Happiness-misery seesaw” is brilliant. Pithy 🙂
Sammy,
“Happiness-misery seesaw”
I know that well. There feels like a big chasm between what I want to be true and what I know to be true. My former crush (I’m not even limerent for this guy) reappeared a few days ago, and I told myself: Be prepared. He’s going to reappear and then disappear. Which is exactly what he did. So for a few days I was riding high and now I’m in the pits of it. In the interest of being “healthy,” I have blocked him from my social media and phone, which I probably should have done a while ago. The two non-limerent friends I mentioned this to both said, “Oh, he’s wasting your time.” I KNOW he’s wasting my time, but in blocking him, I also know that I have removed the little ping of excitement that I have experienced in the last year, and I am bracing myself for that. Like relegating myself to a meal at a chain restaurant — everything on the menu will be bland, no mater how much salt you put on it.
*friendship
(Not fresh with)
Question of the Day: Not counting yourself as either a limerent or an LO, how many limerents do you think you’ve encountered in your life?
I think I’ve only encountered one, two at the most. I’ve encountered some people who may have had crushes and more who seemed to have mid-life crises but I think I’ve only known one person who I think met the criteria for limerence.
He was a distant cousin of mine. He had an almost obsessive crush on a girl that lasted for years. I knew her. She was ok and from what he told me, she never did anything to encourage him. It was like he wasn’t even there. It went on after she married someone else.
The other guy was a college buddy. Imagine JFK, Jr., if JFK, Jr. was a nerd. There was a girl in Physics class he was gaga over. She was dynamite looking. She figured it out and took advantage of him unmercifully. He became her personal tutor and did assignments for her. I don’t know if he was limerent for her but he could have been.
Scharnhorst,
” …more who seemed to have mid-life crises but I think I’ve only known one person who I think met the criteria for limerence.”
I’m not sure I understand what the difference is. Lee posted an article on the “Playing with Fire” post about author William Golding who became obsessive about a young woman when he was in his 50s. He was definitely having a mid-life crises but also was probably limerent. Limerence can come out of a need to shake things up in mid-life, but that need can happen at any time in life. I think several of my LEs arouse from that need, but I haven’t always been this ancient. 🙂
I’ve seen several people’s marriages dissolve in what appear to have been mid-life crises. But, in only one of them was another person the apparent cause.
A good friend recently finalized his divorce. His wife pretty much said she didn’t to be married to him anymore. She didn’t leave him for someone else. She cornered me once. I got the impression her life didn’t turn out like she thought it would and she didn’t like where it appeared to be going. From his perspective, it was pretty much Heart’s “Who Will You Run To?”
“You’re not sure what you want to do with your life but you sure don’t want me in it
Yeah you’re sure the life you’re living with me can’t go on one single minute”
When my wife and I weren’t sure we were going to make it, she flat out asked me, “Do you want to be married to me.” I looked her in the eye and said, “I don’t know.” I told her I didn’t think I’d necessarily be happier with anyone else anywhere else but I wasn’t happy with the way things were and it would be different.
It took us awhile to work through that.
“I’ve seen several people’s marriages dissolve in what appear to have been mid-life crises. But, in only one of them was another person the apparent cause.”
Yes, there’s probably some truth to that. Although I think, if there is infidelity, it’s partly the catalyst or the final nail in the coffin. But the marriage was already in trouble.
I’m surprised by how many people with INF ended up reporting for duty. I am INT. I wonder if an ‘F’ or a ‘T’ preference affects the way people interpret their limerence episode/s in hindsight?
For example, I struggle with the concept of bittersweetness. To me, limerence wasn’t bittersweet. Limerence was just plain bitter. It felt like something very cruel which shouldn’t happen to anyone. It felt like a form of madness, a tornado, a storm with a sudden onset, and I was absolutely determined to get to the bottom of it. I’m not really comfortable with loose ends/lack of closure.
However, maybe my views are a little skewered by my own temperament. As a ‘T’, I’m not used to losing total control over my emotions, so maybe I found the experience more traumatic than it needed to be? I couldn’t ride the wave. Had I the people skills that Feelers take for granted, the people skills I was obliged to develop because of limerence, I might have had a smoother overall trip…
Maybe people with an ‘F’ preference are better at managing their emotions in general, and derive a lot of enjoyment from experiences that involve exploring complex emotions? I wonder – might Feelers cope better with limerence than Thinkers because Feelers are often more flexible in the way they go about life? Can a Thinker learn to embrace the part of limerence that is “bittersweet”?
**Sorry. That should be “skewed”, and not “skewered”. 😛
I’m an INTJ and I 100% agree with you. The feeling of euphoria is nice, but having my irrational emotions completely hijack my life is not something that sits well with me. It’s also so far outside of my usual experience that I was completely thrown by the whole thing at first. It took me months to get my bearings.
“I was absolutely determined to get to the bottom of it. I’m not really comfortable with loose ends/lack of closure.”
Exactly how I reacted as well. It hit me out of nowhere and one of the first things I did was try to figure out what in the world was happening to me. And I’ll tell you what, not liking loose ends has made this whole situation VERY difficult for me. I just want to know WHY, you know? Especially when it comes to my LO’s behavior, which is very hot and cold. He’s an enigma and it drives me crazy.
I found this seeking more info on limerence and to see if it’s common occurrence. I was shocked to see the results of the survey. I am INFJ.
Limerence has been attributed to childhood trauma. Its makes you wonder if you develop your MBPT through the circumstances you have growing up.
I am a limerent INFJ that had a happy non-traumatic childhood.
I think who you are is a combination of many things. The interactions between nature and nurture follow a unique course in every individual.
I can confirm Allie’s view, I’m on the same page there.
My current theory is that there are two explanations for why people get an INF type assignment and become limerent:
One is related to trauma. Under normal circumstances, the person would not have developed and INF personality and would not have become a limerent. But childhood issues „push” the person into seeking refuge inwards and cause limerence to develop in a very unhealthy manner towards „bad LOs“ related to their issues.
The other one is related to the inherent personality. A „healthy” INF has probably had these traits already in early childhood – I definitely did. For them, limerence is simply a part of growing up and how they fall in love with someone who could be an amazing romantic partner (a „good LO”).
I tried to use your contact form to email you privately about this, but it isn’t working.
In the article you say this:
“Third, there is a bias towards people who have taken a MBTI test and been engaged enough to remember their type. Again, this may not be evenly distributed across the population.
Despite all those caveats, the effect size is really large. It’s hard to believe that INFJ/Ps would be so disproportionately over-represented in online readers. ”
The thing is that the distribution of interest in MBTI is really extreme, especially with types like INFJ and INFP. One way to show this is by looking at Reddit subscriber counts. For example, compare https://www.reddit.com/r/infp/ (~200,000) and https://www.reddit.com/r/isfj/ (~20,000).
Here is a chart that I made: https://i.imgur.com/Rlbjbut.png (and my code https://jsfiddle.net/waynro7h/)
You can see how extreme the distribution is, and that it’s actually almost identical to the chart you showed in your post.
I think you should post a correction of some kind, in light of this evidence, especially given that the 5% estimate from Wakin seems to be made-up. I think it’s probably way off, maybe by an order of magnitude according to some rough calculations that I did.
This explains the effect size entirely.
You could also try to use subscriber counts to try to control for this issue with the survey, but at that point things are really a mess.
Note that Dorothy Tennov believed limerence was very common. Noah Wolf’s master’s thesis on limerence indicated Tennov thought it was 50%. Helen Fisher’s work relating romantic attraction to dopamine systems also suggests it would be very common. (Helen Fisher is quoted saying limerence is romantic love.)
I appreciate the work you’re trying to do, though.
Thanks, David for that info. (N.B. I suspect my contact form rejected your entry because of the number of links).
If I understand your point, it’s that the INFJ/Ps really are disproportionately engaged in online communities that discuss MBTI and so the bias is coming in at the self-selection stage? So, almost any discussion of an aspect of human experience would have those personality types over-represented if the discussion was anchored to MBTI in some way?
Makes sense.
It’s a shame that so many estimates of the prevalence of limerence are based on “expert reported X% value” without more controlled analysis.
Yes, for example, if there were ESTJs that were limerent, they would be under-counted simply because they’re much less likely to know their MBTI type and be reading neuroscience blogs on love.
By the way, this author Lucy seems to be very untrustworthy.
She wrote this article for example: https://youmemindbody.com/mental-health/My-First-Limerence-Lesbian-Love-Gone-Wrong
But a lot of the info in that article is blatant misinformation, and if you check her citations, they don’t support her points.
For example she says this:
“The tendency to enter manic states is also a prerequisite to limerence, so bipolar disorder is naturally also often a comorbidity”
There’s no evidence whatsoever that mania is a “prerequisite” to limerence, and there’s no study on prevalence of certain disorders among limerent people yet. Her “citation” is just a random paper about Bipolar disorder and relationships. It doesn’t mention limerence and doesn’t support either of her statements.
“As I will elaborate on soon, there is a reason why sustained highs and lows in romance are associated with trauma bonding and toxicity. Our neurobiological machinery only allows us to feel those ‘ups’ for people who are unavailable and confusing.”
People “only” feel emotional highs for unavailable and confusing people? Just what?
There’s a ton of stuff like that in her article.
She’s just making things up and linking random stuff for fake citations. I’m not that familiar with her material, but that article is really alarming.
I don’t know what’s going on with her that she’s doing this, but it really makes her survey data suspect too.
“The anxious-ambivalent group obtained high scores on a number of scales reflecting their extreme approach to love (Mania, Obsessive Preoccupation, Emotional Dependence, Reliance on Partner, and Agape). These results […] support Shaver and Hazan’s propositions that mania, limerence, and anxious-ambivalent attachment are related constructs, and that the items of the Agape scale portray an extreme degree of self-sacrifice. However, there was considerable overlap of distributions for the three attachment styles on Mania, love addiction, and limerence; furthermore, avoidant and anxious-ambivalent subjects scored equally highly on the Self-Conscious Anxiety limerence scale. Major characteristics of the anxious-ambivalent group are summarized by their pattern of scores on the second-order scales, with high mean scores on the Neurotic Love scale and low scores on Circumspect Love.”
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/232532243_Attachment_Style_as_a_Predictor_of_Adult_Romantic_Relationships
They found 55% secure, 30% avoidant and 15% anxious-ambivalent. 45% scored highly on self-conscious anxiety limerence, but with “considerable overlap” across all three attachment styles.
This suggests limerence is common.
(Note: see e.g. Fraley & Shaver for contemporary view on attachment style. Attachment style is not an enduring trait from childhood experience, changes over time, is different from relationship to relationship, has correlation with personality, etc. https://adultattachment.faculty.ucdavis.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/66/2015/09/Fraley_2008_Attachment-Theory-and-Its-Place-in-Contemporary-Personality-Theory.pdf )
Another study has found around .3 or .35 correlation between romantic love, depression, anxiety and hypomania.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260680456_I_love_you_more_than_I_can_stand_-_Romantic_love_symptoms_of_depression_and_anxiety_and_sleep_complaints_are_related_among_young_adults
It’s also Helen Fisher’s view that limerence and romantic love are the same thing. See “Madly In Love” podcast episode: https://kimberlybeamholmes.com/#podcast
And there’s extensive literature on romantic love at this point. Many researchers cite Tennov as a source on romantic love, even if they don’t use her word, such as Adam Bode in these two papers:
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.573123/full
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2023.1176067/full
Furthermore, in this article Albert Wakin himself seems to think about 25% of his own study participants experienced limerence:
https://web.archive.org/web/20080210054316/https://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-02-06-limerence_N.htm
“Of about 200 who have agreed to participate in the study, the researchers suspect 50 or 60 have at one time experienced a limerent relationship.”
Wakin started that study 16 years ago and hasn’t published anything since, probably because his own results contradicted his theories and basically every actual researcher on this topic seems to disagree with him. Judging by the date of his master’s thesis, he must be in his 80s. Who knows if he’s still working on anything at all.
By the way, did you notice that Wakin’s paper was published in a university newsletter and was not peer-reviewed material? (It’s probably a rejected paper.) He also has no other publications I could find besides it and his master’s thesis in the ’60s. Wakin is not an expert on this topic. He is a nobody in this field who just managed to solicit a number of media articles by going around calling himself an expert and getting his baseless claims republished.
(His paper even cites a paper which cites Donatella Marazziti’s study, which contradicts him by arguing romantic love normally is “like OCD” and might lower serotonin levels. Did he not read into his own citations?)
Obviously Wakin is one of the sorts of critics that Tennov talks about in her book:
“Abraham Maslow, […], was also a spokesperson for an ideal form of love that is clearly nonlimerent. Maslow wrote of “D-love,” which he said was not love at all but a state of dependency. “B-love,” in contrast, should be welcomed into consciousness; it is never a problem but can be enjoyed endlessly. It has beneficial effects on the persons involved since it is associated with individual autonomy and independence. B-lovers are not unreasonably jealous and they are not blind. It is the other, damaging D-love which blinds you. In true love (B-love) you are able to perceive your lover clearly and penetratingly.”
And:
“Another writer who denied that “secret love” is in fact love is sociologist Paul Bohannan, to whom “romantic love” is a condition in which your “love fantasies become ends in themselves.” You are blinded to LO’s “real” personality because you refuse to look at the facts. Clearly, Bohannan speaks of limerence, but like Solomon he classified this state as other than “true love” and considers it ‘a sort of psychological love potion that some people either administer to themselves or else use as an excuse when they want to be irresponsible.'”
And:
“But Bach and Deutsch do not view these feelings as an integral aspect of a complex involuntary human reaction pattern. Instead, they label the feeling “destructive” and propose a form of psychotherapy aimed at helping people achieve “authentic” intimacy that would not be hindered by the shyness and fear of lovesickness.”
Etc. Tennov of course talked a lot about these sorts of people in her book.
Anyway, basically the 5% is just a fabrication by a critic, really a fringe author, who is trying to denigrate the phenomenon, as far as I can tell.
You should try interviewing Helen Fisher or something. She is actually an expert.
Thanks for the detailed review, David. Especially the Bode papers, which I hadn’t seen.
By one of those quirks of the universe, your comment came in a couple of hours after I got the results of a survey I carried out to try and answer the question directly. It’s interesting to re-read this old post that starts “the obvious approach would be to construct a survey with questions designed to identify limerent traits, and then persuade a large number of randomly selected people within the population to take it.”
Well, I’ve done it now with a sample of 1500 US and UK adults (using the amazing persuasion technique of paying for it…). I’m going to write a full post once I’ve properly analysed the data, but the headline result is that it looks like 50-60% of the general population have experienced limerence. So Tennov’s hunch about two roughly equal tribes was about right!
More to come…
Wow, thank you for your work.
I’m looking forward to this post. I hope it covers the difference between limerence in the beginning of a reciprocal romantic relationship, and limerence as a person addiction negative pathology.