Much of the discussion about limerence in psychological circles explicitly pathologises it as an experience, and works from the premise that it is a mental disorder arising from an underlying trauma that has caused an inability to love in a healthy way. This school of thought often focuses on early life bonding, and the assumption that disordered attachment of some sort has caused an abnormal or exaggerated need to seek affirmation from a romantic partner to compensate for the “failure” of early bonding. A corollary is that we become limerent for people that mirror our childhood experience of love, and so seek them with terrible emotional urgency, in an attempt to relive the childhood trauma and correct it through successful adult bonding. In the crudest terms – to make mummy or daddy love us properly this time.
Following from this premise, therapy is strongly recommended as a strategy to overcome our past trauma, recognise our pathological thought patterns, and liberate ourselves from the tyranny of limerence.
I am not anti-therapy, but I do have some serious concerns with this perspective. First, Tennov herself outlines in Love and Limerence some cases where inappropriate therapy caused astonishing harm to limerents. In the most chilling example, she relates the case of a mother who was directed to enter psychoanalysis herself because of behavioural problems that her son was having at school – the presumed “reasoning” being everything is always the mother’s fault. What happened during the sessions was that the woman became limerent for her therapist, who celebrated this as constructive transference, and continued in a ongoing (time consuming and expensive) programme of analysis that drove the frantic limerent to attempted suicide. A less than stellar outcome that did little to help with the son’s behavioural issues.
The larger issue illustrated by this case is whether limerence is truly a pathology that needs treatment. If, instead, limerence is a normal physiological process that is rooted in our evolutionary history (rather than personal psychological history), then attempting to frame it in a context of childhood trauma is counterproductive at best. Explanatory frameworks are useful insofar as they can be tested – if they apply to every situation then they explain everything and nothing.
If, as Tennov suggested (and I would argue), limerence is a physiological process akin to sexual arousal or the “fight or flight” response of the sympathetic nervous system, then attempting to understand it from the perspective of psychological wounding could be misguided and harmful. The search for the cause of limerence, and its suggested treatment through talking therapies, is disease mongering; something that the pharmaceutical companies are rightly chastised for. I’m all for self-awareness, but whether a particular charismatic therapist is the best guide to reach that destination is another matter. Especially if they have a fixed view that all romantic distress is a manifestation of disordered bonding. Would you trust a medicines pedlar who claimed to have a panacea to all ills, or would you suspect that it’s a bit more complicated than that?
Limerence can manifestly be a positive and rewarding experience, and is easily understood as giving a survival benefit. Like any physiological process, dysfunction can lead to disease – the issue is whether limerence is the disease. Do we need to be cured of limerence, or do we need to accept it as an aspect of ourselves as natural as any other emotion?
Embark on therapy with caution. A theoretical framework that cannot be falsified is impossible to verify. Insight can undoubtedly come from examining our histories and our emotional landscape, but harm can be done by pathologising a natural process and reaching for a cure-all explanation for adult difficulties based on imperfect childhoods. Accepting uncertainty is necessary for growth – we can understand ourselves without being able to explain all of the causative factors that have made us as we are. The key benefit of therapy is to know ourselves better, to understand our drives and to guide future behaviour in a constructive direction. A bad therapist, or a therapist with an idée fixe every bit as immovable as limerence itself, can be actively harmful.
I worked with a therapist when I started going down the rabbit hole with the last LO. I saw it coming and, in spite of all the warnings going off in my head, felt compelled to keep going. One interesting tidbit to come out of all this was in terms of risk, my first LO was more of an actual threat but the consequences as a single man were far less. With the latest LO, the relationship being entirely virtual made her less of a threat but as a married man, the potential consequences were far greater. Even knowing that I was doing something that would cause my wife great pain and damage my marriage, all for nothing in return from the LO, there was something in me that found it really hard to let her go. I needed professional help to find out why that was and went back to the therapist about 6 months after going NC with the LO.
The therapist was pretty solid. She recommended severing all contact and explored my attraction to her and damsels in distress in general. I think she was correct in those areas. Where I think she missed the boat was she didn’t understand limerence. She pegged me as a codependent. I did a lot of research into codependence and it didn’t seem like the right fit. The dynamics of a codependent relationship weren’t there. That’s when I found out about limerence. I discussed limerence with the therapist. She didn’t know much about it but said if it explained my circumstances and supported doing the right thing, she didn’t have a problem with it.
Sounds like a good therapist – in the sense of focusing on the outcomes for you and not getting hung up on fitting you into the “codependent” box and treating that. Really interesting that you became limerent for someone online. At first I found that surprising (as you’d not have had the body language feedback of reciprocation – unless you Skyped?), but on reflection, it fits well with the “object” aspect of LO. Who better to project your emotional needs onto than a literal avatar?
I think there are some similar stories about online dating – people that half fall in love with the person they have imagined up from the back-and-forth of private messages with a match, only to be hugely let down when they meet the actual person in real life. Apparently the dating pros know this phenomenon and avoid the “getting to know you via PM” phase of the courtship for exactly that reason…
There was plenty of reciprocation but it was entirely virtual. What made this so interesting was that until her situation changed, we had a pretty good thing going. It wasn’t until she became “real” that things became a problem.
– The woman I was dealing with has a large body of online work. She did a series of YouTube videos. I knew what she looked like and the sound of her voice.
– She has a strong physical resemblance to LO #1. Toss in that I got the same vibe from her that I got from LO#1 and it was a powerful draw.
– When I first started interacting with her online, I got an email from her that said, “Your contributions always seem to come in when I’m feeling really low and you always seem to know what to say to make me feel better. What do I telegraph to you?”
– She liked what I had to say. She ran the website I was on. She published 3 articles on it and quoted me in hers. I became a moderator on her website for several years. It was heady stuff.
– When the pooh hit the fan for her, she said I was “like a rock for her,” and said I was the person who opened her eyes to what was happening, that she was still “narc bait,” and she would always be grateful to me.
– One odd kicker was that one of the other site moderators noticed something. One of the other moderators happened to be in my town and we got together. He asked how I met the LO and how long we’d known each other. I told him we’d never met and I’d only known her since I appeared on her site. He said that was hard to believe. He said that from the way we bantered on the site and what we talked about he would have assumed we had known each other a long time and were really close.
– The therapist said, “Much of what you say about this woman isn’t very flattering.” I told her that I wasn’t trying to disparage the LO. The LO was attractive, intelligent, charming, and had a delightfully snarky sense of humor. The therapist said, “You’re not disparaging her, you’re defending her.” The therapist then ran off the list of less than stellar things I’d said about the LO. She concluded with, “Is is possible that this woman isn’t really who you think she is?” My response to that was that aside from my history, including with LOs and non-LOs of idealizing someone, probably not. She pushed the point and I told her that I get really disappointed when someone doesn’t live up to the expectations I expect but don’t communicate to them.
– We’d known each other for several years and never broached the idea of actually talking to each other. A week after I told another mod I was detaching from the site, I got a FB friend request from the LO. I told my wife since the appearance of the LO on my FB page (12 friends) would stand out. My wife said go for it but I could tell from the follow-on questions that she was curious as to why I woman I’d known for years had decided to friend me after she broke up with her BF. I had a dream about the LO in which I almost drove my car off a cliff. I told the therapist and her comment was it didn’t take a gypsy to figure that one out.
When exploring the attraction, the therapist said it appeared I was following a script that I’d developed in childhood. I have a “type” and we figured out what it was. The LOs were the same but the circumstances and the responses were different. We spent a lot of time working through that. She felt that now that I’d gotten rid of that baggage, recurrence was unlikely.
Based on Attachment Theory, I am/was a dismissive-avoidant. LO #3 described herself as “an avoidant INTJ” and I’d bet lunch LO #1 was a fearful-avoidant. I have two professional “opinions” on LO #1. Since I was never able to get her in front on anybody that could render a diagnosis, I’ll go with that.
Thanks for sharing your story, Sharnhorst. That does explain the online thing – clearly there was a lot more contact and feedback than just PMs.
Of all the things you explained, this one really hit home for me:
“Much of what you say about this woman isn’t very flattering.” I told her that I wasn’t trying to disparage the LO. The LO was attractive, intelligent, charming, and had a delightfully snarky sense of humor. The therapist said, “You’re not disparaging her, you’re defending her.”
Fascinating that your therapist could piece together a picture of LO based on your description of her behaviour that was very different from your limerence-tinted view. A big step forward for me in my last limerence episode was judging LO’s behaviour objectively and not explaining it away while dazzled by idealisation.
I’m aware your post is 7 years old. Ut I’ve found it very interesting as I am going through a LE with someone online that I’ve never met. I’ve been chatting to this man for 7 months, he posts daily videos so I know his mannerisms, his voice, expressions etc. never spoken to him. It I’ve sent him videos of me chatting and he has too. We are both attracted to each other but we are both in happy marriages so go figure! I’ve decided enough is enough and have gone NC. I can’t have him in my thoughts all day, every day, I know it is not healthy. And I wouldn’t call it an EA, it’s nit that deep. But
Still, it’s taken over my life. I’m doing well, sort of resisting looking at his social media but tonight I’ve decided I am blocking him and I want absolutely NC whatsoever so wish me luck. This limerence thing has taken me by surprise. And it’s a shame because we get in very well and it’s fun to flirt. But it’s also wrong to flirt when you are married so it’s the right decision. I wonder how you got on scharnhirst. If u read this, wish me luck please, I need it. But I’m very positive I’ll be fine and back to normal. Helps that I’ll never bump into him.
Welcome GenieJo! I hope you are able to break free from your current struggles. Scharnhorst is still involved in our community. I hope he sees your post so that you can chat with him. He has great insight. He is compassionate towards us limerents, but he will also dish up some tough love when it’s needed. He goes by Limerent Emeritus now. A lot of people call him LE for short (LE is also an abbreviated form of limerent experience, by the way).
I’m glad you are taking action to improve your situation.
Best wishes!
Hi GenieJo. I am sorry that you are feeling low in your LE. I have some experience in the role that social media plays in exacerbating limerence, so I thought that I would jump in. The issue that I was facing was looking for validation from my LO regarding my social media posts, getting happy when there is a response, and feeling sad when there is not a response or a late response. The whole thing was driving me nuts. Like you, both of us also have SOs. There can be a whole lot of psychology reasons why we get into LE, but for now, you need to work on neutralising your current LE.
My assessment is that if the social media interactions with LO are causing you distress, they are not worth it. If blocking your LO seems hard, you can start by reducing the frequency of your interactions. Whenever you get the urge to look at LO social media, try not too, the urge will pass eventually.
The one thing that is in your favor is that you do not see him physically, handling that is another challenge.
Wish you the best, and do not worry, you will do well!
The idealization was never a significant issue for me. I knew she was no Venus rising on a half-shell. I never thought I’d have to deal with the downside.
While the limerence pot had been simmering for awhile, I don’t think either of us was looking for trouble. It was only after she broke up with her BF that things went south. One contributing factor in my favor was the LO wasn’t the first woman to reach out after her SO cheated on her, she was the third. The first time it happened the couple were close friends of mine and I tried to help. She showed up on my door late one night, told me what a great guy I was and asked if she could spend the night. I didn’t expect LO to show up on my door but she didn’t have to in order to throw a monkey wrench into my marriage. One compromised email would have done that. When I got the email telling me what happened, my reaction was to see a snowball coming down the hill at me. I didn’t want to attach to her and I didn’t want her attaching to me but we, or at least, I was a little late with that.
What intensified the LE was that when she left her BF, she moved to within 15 miles from where I’d moved from. I could get to her with my eyes closed. I gave her restaurant recommendations and directions to stores. I knew what the sunrise would look like from her place. When I thought about meeting her for a drink, I knew exactly where it would be, the route to get there, the layout of the parking lot, what the setting sun looked like from the deck. She said in one of her emails that she liked the imagery in my emails to her.
Here’s Bowlby’s video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAAmSqv2GV8
I totally screwed this post up. I was switching between this and “Why is limerence so powerful?” and hit post on the wrong one. “Numinous” was in the other blog.
The quote should be, “Put all of these factors together, and that there is some significant psychological heft.”
No posting before the second cup of coffee….
And I’m told I should never post after the third cup of coffee…
Clips of the Day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxM8Eb_IoFY & https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmdmGnohk6E
“Do your magic, Brain Witch!” – Where was that line when I was working with the therapists?
My problem is I can’t sleep. I had a panic attack that lasted a really long time and left my whole body numb when I was with my ex boyfriend. I think it was the lack of sleep and the stress of this and the obsession. I’ve only discovered this term Limerence today. I had major issues in the past and one of my parents is convinced I have bipolar but I know I don’t I’ve finally found out what I have. This is why I always ask people questions when they’re in a relationship because I don’t know what a real one is like. I stay with people for a short time (roughly 6 months) until I cannot physically or psychologically take it anymore. And I’ve never stayed with anyone for longer than that. I’m thinking that I seriously need to get therapy for this but obviously I can’t afford it and can’t get the right therapy on the nhs. Any suggestions for what I should do? I’m just going through another ‘episode‘ or whatever it’s called now and I’m thinking I can’t take this for much longer but it’s so hard because I don’t know if I really like the person on not but know I won’t be able to cope with the stress of it in the end. Does anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks
Hello Dr. L,
I hope you don’t mind me offering a different point of a view, one that I think is very important, crucial, and essential for us and, especially, a public person like you with, I presume, a huge number of people coming over to read, learn, and seek useful information every day.
Since the start of my own recovery as a limerent, I have been visiting your website and found much truly useful and helpful information. I couldn’t be thankful and grateful that you have founded this website, this community, and wrote so many great articles regarding limerence. With this article, though, I must say, I disagree, and I feel obliged to say that you mentioning and implying that limerence is strictly a physiological process and potentially or absolutely has nothing to do at all with a person’s history of psychological past, especially the parts where it hurts, is actually, I must say, very limited and could therefore be very misguided and harmful too.
I wholeheartedly and truly respect your opinion, and if your experience says that your limerence is a physiological process, then I truly believe it is, for we all could be very different and subtly unique in that way, but then to regard limerence as unrelated to one’s psyche, especially the deep, wounded, is also to underestimate the power of our own psyche and everything, especially the bad and negative consequence and phenomenon, like limerence, that could come after.
Real, life-threatening cases of limerence as a psychological issue and deeply, whether viewing it as a series of limerence that permeates and persists through one’s own life or at a certain specific period when it was in its full-blown, a mental illness from a number of people all over the world exist. There are researches, studies, and groups/communities of people in this sphere who have recovered, healed, and cured from limerence. It is not actually very hard at all to find evidence that limerence can be, if not strictly physiological, also a deep psychological process. Every day people all around the world attend meetings of SLAA (Sex and Love Anonymous) and LAA (Love Addiction Anonymous) to recount their experiences of past hurt, abuse, neglect, etc., whether in childhood or adulthood, that have led them to feel and long to feel this state of intense, fantasized romantic love all their life.
When you said, “Would you trust a medicines pedlar who claimed to have a panacea to all ills, or would you suspect that it’s a bit more complicated than that?”, I couldn’t help but feel that you are undermining a human’s realm of psychology and the ability of a good mental health professional as well a group of people who have actually been proving that if you are suffering from limerence as a psychological symptom, a cure, a process of recovering and fully healing, is possible. I wouldn’t write this and feel obliged to write if it doesn’t happen to me, if it is not possible for me, too.
There is so much and a lot to cover when it comes to limerence as a psychological process. I simply couldn’t cover and write it all in one comment. I am writing here just simply to tell others that if you feel like your limerence stems from something disturbing and deeper in your realm of psyche and soul, know that it is okay. It may seem daunting, but the first step is to simply listen to yourself. Recovery is possible. You could begin by finding a suitable good mental health therapist as well as learn many helpful resources from LAA or SLAA too.
There is nothing more harmful than living with a condition that brings you nothing but chaos, obsession, and simply a blockage to your precious life. Whether it is mainly physiological or psychological, you decide. Limerence is at its core both a physiological and psychological process. The real work to do here is to get to its core, its cause. If it has nothing to do with your wounds, you try to approach it with a physiological view, but if all your being gravitates more to something with your mind, try to listen closely and see what you, yourself, is trying to tell you.
Again, this is not to personally attack Dr. L.’s point of view or anyone who has experienced limerence as a physiological process. Re-reading it after posting, I realize I shouldn’t use the word “very limited” to you. I don’t mean it to sound offensive or in any way at all and I hope my overall message doesn’t come off so.
I sincerely apologize in advance. Should have re-reading it first before posting. Thanks again for all your articles.
: )
Interesting point. Maybe this comes down to a different definition of what limerence actually is JS?
As someone that was/is mentally heathy both before and during my LE, it feels more like person addiction and not a pathological condition to me. I don’t feel like there is anything a therapist could do to take my LE away thus I understand DrLs view.
If I was less emotionally resilient, had attachment issues maybe, past trauma, or other mental health co-morbidities, then the limerence would be far more of serious issue. But surely then it would not be the limerence on its own that is pathological, hence therapy might be more effective if it treated the co-morbiities rather than just the person addiction. Just a thought.
Hello. Haven’t posted before but have used this site for about a year. Very grateful for this resource as I’ve found myself dealing with this .
I’ve been in therapy since June last year ( just had to start with a new therapist which doesn’t help but I’ve got them up to speed).
I’m in a long term relationship of 8 years (recently engaged) and I am 5 months into no contact with LO. I’ve done a lot of the hard work, I know this, but I find myself in a full blown relapse.
The problem I have is. I never met my LO in person. We spoke virtually through work then via social media. We live locally to each other so I have driven past them but we have not met. The relationship fizzled out on friendly terms, I didn’t disclose to them however the affair was rejected by them in the end on moral grounds ( thank god). I made the concious choice to take control and withdraw and they are now in a new relationship and I am focusing on mine.
I started taking steps to purposeful living and I made progress. However I still found myself checking social media. I then received a notification they liked an old picture of me. This fuelled my Limerence and uncertainty. So I took what I thought would be the final step and blocked them on socials. This was 2 weeks ago.
I thought this would be the end of it. But I seem to have gone backwards and am fantasising like I was at the start. I still can feel like we’ll end up together in the end
I am trying to work through things with a therapist and she suggested I should meet them to have a conversation. And the reality of them may stop me from daydreaming and idolising them.
This has sent me into conflict. Would this help resolve the uncertainty and end the Limerence. Or would breaking no contact undo my hard work?
Welcome, MissB30! As someone who has to work with their LO — albeit indirectly and not on a daily basis — I so wish I could go full NC, like you can. I do my best but every time LO contacts me or I see him (or anticipate seeing him), the LE flares up again. I would say take the gift you’ve been given and don’t meet with him. Even knowing you will meet again soon would likely lead to rehearsing the conversation, fantasising about possible reciprocation etc, which would reinforce the very brain patterns you are hoping to reverse. When your LO ended the uncertainty by rejecting the affair, and then “liked” an old photo, he may well have thought it was safe to stick his head above the parapet in a friendly way but clearly him doing so has refueled your LE and I suggest you are not ready to meet him. See here: https://livingwithlimerence.com/im-totally-over-this-lets-go-for-coffee/
and https://livingwithlimerence.com/closure-is-an-illusion/
All the very best to you.
I concur with TP. My LO is an employee of mine who I have to collaborate with on a daily basis in person. I literally fantasize about her quitting and being able to be full NC. At best I practice some LC measures but they feel not enough a lot of the time. Take the gift of NC and rid this person completely from your life then get on with living purposefully with your current SO. I don’t think I have read any personal stories on here of having more contact be a solution to LE.
Thanks for the replies. I am going to re-direct my therapist to help me focus on the things within instead. I fear I am still vulnerable to this reoccurring with someone else if I do not resolve why this happened in the first place.
I am grateful that I am able to go NC. Thank you for the reminder of this. I’m not sure my therapist fully understands what I’ve been going through and after reading the posts you have shared- a conversation is absolutely not the way to go.
Thanks and best wishes too.
Perhaps I’m misunderstanding this post, but your remarks that limerence can be a positive experience and shouldn’t be treated as pathological are deeply unsettling and make me question the entirety of your intent with a blog that in every other post makes it very clear that limerence is anything but.
Cutting someone out of your life completely that you’ve formed a strong connection to is not a positive experience.
Living in fear of ever forming such a connection again is not a positive experience.
Living in fear of romance is not a positive experience.
Having your entire life taken away from you because your brain has been hijacked is not a positive experience.
Grieving a lost connection is not a positive experience.
Having a friend turn into an LO, and subsequently losing them, is not a positive experience.
I have experienced at least 2 limerence episodes in my life now and they were utterly horrifying, with consequences that I continue to live with due to both former LOs being in my social circle.
I am better off without them, but I would’ve been even better off had it never happened. And if there is no “growth” to be had from say overcoming a childhood trauma that led you down the path in the first place, then limerence is just art for art’s sake. That’s an even more sinister notion.
Being “addicted” to another human being and the roller coaster it takes you on, ripping your whole life away in the process, is anything but positive.
I also do not buy your stance of “limerence isn’t necessarily rooted in childhood trauma and therefore may not need treatment.” The former doesn’t imply the latter. I’ve not seen any work that even attempts to address that. I also wouldn’t take Tennov as the be-all-end-all authority on the topic, despite having initially proposed it. That’s not how science works. And if we aren’t going to apply the scientific method to this concept, we may as well be talking about our star signs and how susceptible they render us to this monster.
“It’s a natural physiological process.”
So is cancer.
If your claim is that limerence may just exist in a vacuum and not arise from some underlying cause (the same way heroin addiction stems from heroin and not from adolescent trauma) then perhaps I could buy that, but frankly would want to see some serious evidence for that (an issue I take with this concept in general. All due respect to whatever your credentials may be but this is a blog that seems to implicitly encourage self-diagnosis of a loosely defined concept, with massive consequences, from a book nearly half a century old based on speculation and anecdote. And the internet is full of all kinds of information on this, most of which is as authoritative and prescriptive as it is baseless.)
Either way. I’ve never found the experience of limerence to be anything other than disruptive, destructive, and debilitating. Whether it comes from turbulent upbringing, or a nucleus accumbens run amok, it is certainly something that I could do with never going through again, and wouldn’t wish on anybody.
And yes, it required therapy to get through. And still does. There is nothing positive about that.
My biggest takeaway from this post is that rigorous scientific thought and research needs to be applied to this topic. It clearly hasn’t.
I agree with this post. I don’t see how limerence is a good thing in any way. Not only that, why is limerence considered a natural physiological process?
I suppose anxiety is natural too, but if the switch is turned on constantly, you have an anxiety disorder. Maybe limerence has some evolutionary usefulness as it gets you to obsess about someone, mate with them, and have children? Then the limerence disappears? Ok, from that perspective I suppose limerence is natural. But what if limerence is never turned off? It just drags on for months and months? Then what? Now you have a disorder that causes suffering.
Limerence is a disorder. We shouldn’t glorify any aspect of it.
Wonderfully written and I agree with the perspective of cautioning against assuming all forms of limerence are a pathological disorders.