This week’s video is all about the conflict between the two tribes and how that can lead to heartache:
It’s a sad fact that romantic relationships can fall apart even when both people are trying to make it work.
One of the less obvious reasons why is that there are two profoundly different ways that people experience early love.
And that difference means that they have totally mismatched expectations about what love feels like, and how people in love behave.
In this video, I’ll show you how the two love tribes misunderstand each other, how that can lead to relationship breakdown, and how to avoid that heartache.
Now, one of the biggest reasons why many promising relationships don’t last is a failure to understand that early love doesn’t feel the same for everyone.
OK, so let’s start at the beginning: what do I mean by “early love”?
Well, obviously, that initial, exciting, sparkly phase of love feels distinct from the warmth and affection of long-term love.
When you’re first getting to know someone, everything is novel, and thrilling and full of romantic potential.
There’s typically a lot of erotic charge, butterflies of excitement, and the delights of mutual bliss… but that “honeymoon phase” doesn’t last forever.
Social psychologists tend to classify this early stage of love as passionate or romantic love, and the later phase as companionate love or affectional bonding.
From the perspective of neuroscience, these phases also have different dominant neural systems – early on the reward and arousal systems are linked very powerfully to bonding, but as time goes on the reward-seeking drive and the exhilaration of arousal habituate and subside.
And it kind of makes sense that we’d have different drives for the different phases of love. So, first urgently forming a pair bond, but then keeping that bond going in the long term.
But that early phase of passionate love can be a profoundly different experience for different people.
And that’s when the problems can start.
1. Limerence
For about half the population of the world, early love is a spectacular, transformative experience.
The beloved becomes the most desirable person imaginable. No one else compares to their romantic potency. Being with them gives an enormous, intoxicating natural high. You feel giddy with euphoria when it seems like your feelings are returned by them, and you want them with a craving that overpowers all other concerns.
It feels like your brain is running in a different operational mode. You feel like you are definitively “in” an altered mental state of intense romantic infatuation.
A state of total mental preoccupation.
So, it’s hard to concentrate on any other tasks, because intrusive thoughts about them keep distracting you, you daydream incessantly, you neglect your other responsibilities, and you direct all your energy into desperately trying to form an ecstatic union with them.
This mental state is known as limerence.
And, limerence was first defined by the psychologist Dorothy Tennov in the 1970s and since she first introduced the idea it’s provoked two types of reaction:
Number 1: That’s just love
Number 2: That’s not love, that’s obsession
So, some people are highly sceptical of the idea and think that limerence is just an intense form of passionate love, others—like me—think that limerence captures an important binary distinction.
Not everyone falls into that altered mental state during early love.
Not everyone has this tendency to flip into a state of being “in love”, as a distinct state of mind in which the whole world seems transformed; so, colours are more vibrant, you feel more optimistic, overstimulated, and charged with manic energy.
For the people who don’t experience limerence, early love is far less disruptive and destabilising.
2. The two tribes
So a couple of years ago, I tried to estimate how common limerence is in the general population.
I surveyed 1500 adults in the US and UK and asked them if they felt they had ever experienced that altered state of mind during their own romantic lives.
Over half said yes.
Which means, of course, that a bit less than half of the population said no.
For people who don’t experience limerence, the early phase of love is still a wonderful, exciting experience, but it doesn’t overtake their mind, and their lives, to the same extent.
For them, romantic love adds to life in a positive way. They feel attraction, lust, and desire, but not in a way that overwhelms their self-control and crowds out all other concerns.
In fact, one of the crucial events for Dorothy Tennov in formulating the concept of limerence came when she was explaining her research to a friend, Helen Payne, who had never experienced the state.
So, in Tennov’s words:
Describing the intricacies of romantic attachments to Helen was like try to describe the color red to one blind from birth. “It doesn’t make sense,” she would say, “I simply don’t understand how anyone could feel like that, how anyone could be so important to another person.”
For Helen, media portrayals of romantic love seemed like extravagant exaggerations, and the attentiveness and possessiveness of her potential partners were unsettling.
“They seemed to care excessively about everything I did… nothing was ever enough for them.”
So that realisation revealed a major source of heartache: the two tribes—limerents and non-limerents—will be going through very different experiences in the early stages of love.
And that can doom promising relationships to failure.
3. How limerence causes relationship trouble
The first obvious problem caused by limerence is the problem that Helen Payne faced: when a limerent and a non-limerent start to fall in love their instincts will clash.
The limerent will be intoxicated; drunk on euphoria and desperate to bond. They will have an insatiable desire for their “limerent object”. No amount of time together will be enough. Even introverts will happily, giddily, spend every waking hour as close to their beloved as they can.
The non-limerent, by contrast, is likely to feel that this is a bit much.
Yes, they really enjoy spending time together, but love shouldn’t feel so needy, urgent and suffocating.
Their rational attempts to try and cool things down a bit will of course provoke the opposite reaction in their limerent partner—who will react in panic at the fear of losing the most wonderful, desirable, and precious person in their world.
Rather like the tragedy of anxious and avoidant attachment styles leading to agonising entanglements, limerents and non-limerents have exactly opposite expectations of how love should feel.
Limerents yearn for total immersion in intimacy; formation of an tight pair bond as fast as possible. They’ll rush into what Arthur and Elaine Aron termed “inclusion of the other in the self.”
Non-limerents want a new, enriching addition to their existing life, not a total transformation of their world. For them, the process of bonding and intertwining lives happens more slowly and deliberately.
Inevitably, if these two tribes meet, what starts as a promising relationship based on mutual attraction falters in the push and pull of mismatched hopes and expectations.
But, limerence isn’t only a cause for relationship heartache when non-limerents are involved.
Even mutual limerence can lead to trouble.
If two limerents bond, it can be fantastic. If you are both free and both limerent, then you get to enjoy the euphoria of ecstatic union together. And it really is great when it happens.
But, it doesn’t last forever.
Limerence inevitably passes once the relationship is consummated and it settles into a routine, and at that point, the thrills and tingles and fireworks fade.
You move into the companionate love phase.
Affection supercedes attraction.
This can cause two types of trouble.
The first is that you discover that the limerence, in all it’s urgent and spectacular excesses, was covering up some serious incompatibilities that can no longer be ignored.
All the flaws, and the irritations, and annoying habits that can be dismissed as charming idiosyncrasies when you’re love drunk start to grate. Limerence can idealise and rationalise away some major sources of conflict, but they will show themselves once the altered mental state has passed.
And that dooms the relationship in the long term if those problems can’t be worked out.
The second major problem is if one or both of the partners develops limerence for someone else.
That can lead to the relationship-wrecking situation captured by that awful phrase:
I love you but I’m not “in love” with you.
What they mean, of course, is I love you but I’m in limerence for someone else.
The long-term bond is damaged because a new short-term limerent episode has struck it.
Some limerents even spend their lives chasing these thrills. So once limerence fades they lose their libido, and their sense of attraction, and their “in love” feelings, and so they abandon the old relationship to chase a new limerent object.
So serial monogamy like this works for some people, but there’s also a Groundhog Day quality to it—repeating the pattern of chasing the fireworks, and hoping that the next limerent object will be the one that finally makes those feelings last.
But eventually, most limerents come to realise that they can’t have everything.
Early love just can’t last forever.
OK, so, that’s a bit depressing. How can you avoid falling into these emotional traps?
4. How to fix it
Well, the good news is, you are already a lot of the way there.
The most important step in avoiding these relationship problems is becoming aware of your own romantic tendencies.
Are you a limerent or a non-limerent?
That affects how you should approach romantic scenarios.
So, if you are dating, is your potential new love interest showing signs of limerence?
Now if you do come from the opposite tribes, realise that your own emotional response will not be the same as theirs—don’t just wing it on instinct and intuition, as that is likely to push you apart.
Be aware of how they are likely to react to your romantic overtures.
Now if you are a limerent, try and you see through the fog of love intoxication and identify any potential incompatibilities before you rush to commit.
If you are in a long-term relationship, but begin to feel the glimmer or limerent attraction for someone else, do not indulge it, unless you really do want to leave the existing relationship.
Really, in every case, just knowing what limerence is, and how it affects people in their romantic choices, means you can make much better informed decisions about romantic life.
The two tribes aren’t incompatible, or in conflict.
You don’t need to abandon half the population as potential partners.
You just need to be aware of how different peoples expectations are when it comes to what love feels like.
Just to complicate things a bit… I am a non-limerent, my husband is a limerent: our relationship started with a friendship and a clear, mutual feeling of being “family” even though we came from different countries, different cultural backgrounds and our language of love, English, was the second tongue for both. No limerence between us. And oh my, how I wish we could find Dr.Tom 15 years ago!
My husband always felt and told me that our relationship felt it was missing something important: to me it didn’t matter that we didn’t start with fireworks, I cherished the mutual understanding, the common passions and outlook on life, the understanding… but a LO was just behind the corner, and for my husband it was a devastating experience, it felt to him that since that’s was the missing bit, the euphoric thrill, then maybe we were the wrong match all along. Sadly, we had two girls under 5 and one on the way – we actually got “pregnant” while I was blissfully unsuspecting that he was getting limerent for – typical – the coworker. I don’t want to describe the feeling of being unvalued, despised, humiliated, stepped upon, when he confessed to me at 4 months pregnant, and he didn’t seem willing to change his flirting adventure one bit. Or when the first thing my husband did after we got out of hospital with our brand new baby boy came out of hospital was sending an email to the coworker, that had moved to a different city 3 months previously.
Knowledge is power – thanks for all the powerful and empowering knowledge that you are all sharing here!
Your story is so interesting.
Do you mind if I ask, has your marriage stabilized at all, or is your husband still flirting with his co-worker?
A loong story. I had no financial independence, no real practical support from family, we were living in a third country and I felt I had very few options: I decided to quiet quit the marriage emotionally and give us two years to see how things evolved. 4 months after the birth of our son I was diagnosed with depression. I started running, journaling, writing… I somewhat managed to get out of it. At the 2 years mark, we had a long chat – his drift still didn’t make any sense to me, he was saying he didn’t know how it happened, he had no control, he could not quit but it meant nothing for him. But we decided to switch to a more purposeful life – we moved to the countryside, switched to 2 part time jobs, decided to unschool the children, to spend more time together. Things massively improved, but I was still emotionally very defensive, sex was a requirement but no joy, PISD episodes: without being able to build a meaningful narrative, I was stuck believing I was defective, inadequate. Three months ago I decided I couldn’t bear it any more and was about to kick him out. Then I found this blog… I made my husband read it and it clicked, it all of a sudden made sense… we spent 2 days with photo albums opened to identify together the limerence tipping points in our story, he started therapy, I started reprocessing finally the grief and the anger. I felt so relieved to be unburdened by the responsibility of having been the lousy side of the attraction equation, and that our relationship was actually normal, something to be cherished. The LE we had in the past still had to be fully integrated, but I feel now I can finally say it won’t define our marriage or my life – that deep was the trauma that it could not be processed without a meaningful frame.
I am glad that the newly acquired knowledge is helping you, and I hope you continue to improve and find some peace of mind.
Thank you for telling your story.
Honestly, it sounds like things are going really well. If I’m understanding you correctly, your husband removed himself from he environment where he was seeing the LO (which is huge) and plugged back into your marriage and your life together. And you’re working on things together.
Thank you for sharing your story, ElPi. Is there anything we can do for you?
I am impressed with your endurance. Your husband is lucky to have a committed woman by his side. It sounds like things are getting better for you and your family. I hope you continue on that trajectory. Since you mentioned that your husband reads LwL, I have a message for him, too.
Hello ElPi‘s SO, welcome to our community! The intense feelings you had are your hormones responding to stimulus. They don’t mean anything. The intensity will pass. I don’t know what mistakes you made while you were in the Limerent fog, but it was clearly hurtful for your family. You can do better. You can be a devoted father and husband. I’m glad that you are participating in therapy. Please feel free to join our community. I think MJ would be a good friend for you. Most of the men on LwL are good at keeping each other grounded. Speedwagon and Adam also had limerence for a coworker. You are not alone.
Best wishes to your family!
-Lovisa
Thank you Lovisa and Marcia and Norma, it’s comforting to be welcomed so warmly!
Yes, my husband recognized 1. That the working environment was toxic for him and not fulfilling but above all 2. That his LOs have always been women incapable or unwilling to allow intimacy to develop: they were easy to objectify as sexual avatars, whereas the fact he cared about me and was attached to me from the beginning made me less arousing.
So now we are both aware that he did develop in his past an identification of libido/sexual arousal with limerence which makes our relationship less sparky: he has clarity about what’s important for him, and he can “let go” of the limerence high.
It sounds like your husband has done a lot of work on himself and with you. That’s great. I applaud him.
The only thing I’d ask is: What does he plan to do when he feels the glimmer for another LO in the future? Because it could happen. You wrote he’s had LO(s), plural. In my own personal experience, I can get a sense of when I’m starting to get fixated/weird about someone. I think there are steps a limerent can take to back away so that a full LE doesn’t start — if they want to. And a big part of you doesn’t want to walk away. Even though you know you should.
We did not know then what a limerence was… we would have been able to behave in a very different way!
Ps: sorry I meant English second language … as you can see!
“Are you a limerent or a non-limerent?“
Can limerents and non-limerents be defined/distinguished by neurologic/neuroscience? Are the two types born this way or evolved/nurtured later? (The possibility that I was born this way still bothers me, despite I had one longish, authentic LE.)
If Not hardwired since birth, can well informed /acutely aware limerents become semi-limerents, just getting into a “rational limerence” — able to use logics to diffuse the fog of early romantic intoxication and develop a healthy relationship?
I am both. I was non limerent with my SO but became limerent for someone else. It all had to do with the circumstances and the dynamics of you and the person you fall in love with. I don’t think you can really pathologize limerence as a feature of the individual. It just depends how receptive you are at a certain stage in your life.
“It just depends how receptive you are at a certain stage in your life.”
If the sample of men in this community is any indication, mid-life and younger female co-workers seems to be the sweet spot. Myself included.
And for middle-aged women … if I were to guess, it’s : Is this the last time I’ll ever feel this way again before I get off this planet? Which is why it’s so hard to walk away from. Ali, who hasn’t been on here for a while, used to post about that. The Universe only gives you so many shots.
To Marcia:
You bring up an interesting point. I am elderly, not middle-aged, and I was fine with not having a romantic interest in my life. Several years ago, I was listening to the song “Creep” by Radiohead, and pondering the dilemma of the person singing the song. I thought, “Sure glad I’m too old for that sh*t!”
Then I met LO and realized that I’m the one singing the song.
“Then I met LO and realized that I’m the one singing the song.”
ND
Anyone tripped up in the wires of limerence I think can resonate well with those words. Some LOs think we are infact Creeps very much so.
I’m just surprised there’s actually people that willing listen to Radiohead.
I kid, Miss Norma, I kid.
ND:
“Then I met LO and realized that I’m the one singing the song.”
There is a sense that time is running out.
One has to wonder why the Universe riles us up for the most ridiculous people (LOs). It’s a completely wasted feeling. I suppose there are people who experience mutual limerence later in life. Not anyone on here, of course. We don’t hear from them because they’re off enjoying their LOs. 🙂
To Adam:
I love Radiohead. Maybe I don’t know any better?
“Creep” is one of my favorite songs. And what I will say, regarding that song and LO, is that I have gotten past thinking that I’m unworthy of LO. I don’t idealize him much anymore.
I realize that our relationship will never amount to anything. But not because of any inadequacy on my part.
Miss Norma
It’s ok, it’s just the “grunge” or alternative rock Gen X version of Every Breath You Take 😂
Don’t get me wrong I get the words. I still to this day hope she didn’t see me as a creep and keeps her distance for my own good. I was just listening to music totally different in the 90’s.
At least for the most part you can understand what he’s singing. Unlike some singers. I’m looking at you Nirvana. 😒
To Adam:
I always hated Nirvana. I never understood why they were so popular.
Miss Norma
I don’t either. Never got why they got so popular. But grunge/alternative rock wasn’t my scene at the time. Still isn’t for the most part. Though like country music I’ve been more open minded than 20 something me about music genre’s. I do like Bittersweet Symphony by The Verve and NIN’s Closer but that’s about it. Mostly I was listening to rap and R&B in the 90’s. Oh and Silverchair’s Israel’s Son.
ND
Seeing that you have some good taste in music, try this one. This was one of my 90s favs. Juliana has a great voice. I thought of this, then you and your LO as I was reading Brother Adams post.. Enjoy.. 😁
Juliana Hatfield
“Everybody loves me but you”
https://youtu.be/SzyLLwtzlfQ?si=_CN6LVPJj-CMn1Fj
To MJ:
Thank you for that. Great song, and apt lyrics.
I don’t know about time “running out” on your shots, though, even in mid-life or older. I know a 90-something lady, who told a story one day about being set up with a 70-something man over her vacation. He came to their date with much more in mind than she intended, lol. So even 90-somethings can have shots left! 🙂
From my observation here, 99% of limerents had/have the past, unmet legitimate needs/desires, unhealed emotional wounds/traumas, or deep psychological insecurities. Some have worked hard on their issues and come through, some are unaware or in denial, and some refuse to face and treat them internally (surely scary), but blame-shift to/rely on others/cultural scripts.
While no one could ever tell what has caused Glimmer at specific crush/LO throughout the history, limerents subconsciously sought/seek and expect(ed) LO or SO to distract/unload their past baggage (I did), but 🆎 NO LOs or SOs were/are able to take/accomplish such a godly task, no matter how much LOVE is involved (true ❤️ can powerfully ASSIST)… Only YOU (universal) can “SAVE” yourself with sufficient/broad knowledge/wisdom and philosophical/psychotherapeutic tools/assistance.
Using IFS terminology, only one’s own leader Self’s (8Cs and 5Ps) can ultimately heal one’s own vulnerabilities/wounds and relax the“managers/defenders” — personality traits/ habitual behaviors…. Until one’s vulnerabilities/insecurities are well taken care by the Self, one is prone to glimmer or chase crush/LO one after another, regardless of age, 7 (me) or 70 years old (my mom). LE has little to do with natural libido.
“If the sample of men in this community is any indication, mid-life and younger female co-workers seems to be the sweet spot.”
I second this opinion..
I agree. Became limerent for female coworker who was a new hire. 20 years younger. She was also limerent for me. She got my number from a coworker who i specifically told not to give it out, texted jokes, cartoons, pics of vacation while on vacation, told me that she was listening to a lot of Fleetwood mac, she went to a union meeting because she heard that I was talking to another woman. But of course we both had SO’s. My policy has always been never date a coworker. We never met outside of work. I had to retire to get away. I gave her my uniforms and work gear, we were the same size. We were getting too close. I sent her gifts after I retired for 8 months. Then 9 months no contact. I thought it was over. Then she texted me. I sent her custom crown earrings. I told her I must be crazy. She said that’s why we get along so well. I told her that I sent her gifts was because I’m from a military family and that’s what we do when we can’t be there. I said it’s getting cloudy, she said no clouds in my sky. It’s been 2 years NC. We played with fire and didn’t get burned. We cared enough about each other to end it.
My limerence was so strong I would have done anything for her. Now I understand how people can fall under that kind of influence. It was brain chemistry overpowering the logic. I did thank her for not abusing her power. It was totally out of character for me. Therapy said that I used her to process my retirement from a job that showed no respect for me as an employee, that’s why I gave all my gear to her. I also lost my mother during this time, adding to my need for dopamine. So when we realized we were limerent for each other, the spell was broken. It ended in true love, we let each other go, preserving the emotional affair at the height of the excitement. Our silence is our proof. So said the therapist. Therapist says 99.9 percent of these relationships do not end like this. They usually end up in disaster, with at least one person tries desperately to hold on. We mutually ended it.
“It’s been 2 years NC. We played with fire and didn’t get burned. We cared enough about each other to end it.”
But, the connection appears to have been maintained. You didn’t sever the connection, you let it go dormant. It’s not that you both can’t try to fire things back up, it’s that you’re both choosing not to.
Do you ever think of how you’d re-engage her should circumstances change? How would you respond if she seriously tried to re-engage you?
Circumstances can change, sometimes drastically and rapidly. Trust me.
If they do, and you’re the chosen one, your life can become a whole lot more complicated. Can you handle that?
I disclosed to my last LO. We said goodbye 10 years ago and have been NC over 5. For a long time, I thought about how I’d re-engage her should I ever become available again. Now, there’s been so much elapsed time that re-engaging holds no appeal. For her to attempt to re-engage me would require a degree of desperation in her that is hard to imagine and every day that goes by is like another coat of paint on the wall.
I’m not the same person I was then and I doubt that she is either. That’s a good thing.
Time is your friend. Use it wisely.
👩🦰 🏃♂️ L.E.,
Combining with my earlier post (dated May 9th, just scrolling down) in this room, I got a couple of naive questions to ask you — our patriarch here!
“It’s not that you both can’t try to fire things back up, it’s that you’re both choosing not to.”
1. Do you think, after getting effective tools in LwL, limerents could ever get to the stage of controlling LE fire, as easy as the fire in the hearth? If one can choose and master to kindle the fire up or tame it down as one wishes and situation allows? Isn’t our collective goal to sustain/build up a healthy relationship and obtain either fleeting happiness or solid contentment?
“Do you ever think of how you’d re-engage her should circumstances change? How would you respond if she seriously tried to re-engage you?”
2. Are you saying that if the re-engagement in the above takes place, LE fire would certainly become out of control again? If the above LE couple’s LE spell is already broken and “real love” kicked in, can this “real love” replace only LE- based “love” (let’s assume the both sides become available)?
“If they do, and you’re the chosen one, your life can become a whole lot more complicated. “
3. I assume you speak from an experienced limerent point of view. Since you had several LE, I’d like to ask you: in what possible, specific ways a limerent-LO’s life can “become a whole lot more complicated”?
4. I’m going back to my May 9th post: are the two “campers” born this way or evolved/nurtured later? If one has experienced one big LE, would s/he always helplessly get into another LE in the future? After LwL, can s/he obtain enough LwL nuggets NOT ever to slip into another/more unwanted LE but walk into and build a healthy relationship?
5. Some people’s LE are caused by the past baggage or existing situations; if their “dire” issues are resolved, can they succeed in their future healthy relationship, with desired, manageable crush/LE, but not “trapped” into LE sufferings as we see in this site?
6. When one does not have a SO or LO, is s/he defined as a limerent or non-limerent? Or the notion of “limerent” doesn’t exist if one is a “free” bird? 🦅
Snow,
1. It sounds like what you’re asking has been addressed in DrL’s blog:
https://livingwithlimerence.com/can-limerence-be-safely-harnessed/
“Do you think, after getting effective tools in LwL, limerents could ever get to the stage of controlling LE fire, as easy as the fire in the hearth?”
Maybe, maybe not. Frank and his LO made a conscious and principled decision to say goodbye. Take a look at the flowchart in https://livingwithlimerence.com/the-definition-of-limerence/. They never had a chance for the LE to play out to a natural conclusion. Had they both been available, Frank likely wouldn’t be here. There’s no place in their lives for the other because an SO is occupying the space. LO is a label, not a position.
ND, on the other hand, appears to be trying to manage things off and on. She knows the right answer but hasn’t fully committed to it.
2. If re-engagement happens do things automatically go out of control? Maybe, maybe not. When LO #4’s circumstances changed, she hit me right in a long held, long dormant vulnerability that I found so compelling that I was willing to assume risk for a woman who offered me absolutely nothing. LO #4 wasn’t the first woman to reach out after her situation changed, she was the third and I knew where it could go.
3. Managing an LE takes work and one of the cornerstones of managing it is that your LO behaves themselves. Should Frank’s LO’s marriage go south, he might be the person she reaches out to. If he doesn’t want to come across as a schmuck, he might try to help her. My story on that subject is told in excruciating detail in the early blogs. Heaven help him if he should allow himself to become her confidant. For an attached limerent, that can be a very difficult line to walk. You almost have to be a sociopath to compartmentalize it to the point where you don’t leak.
4. I consider myself “Post-limerent.” Limerence is kind of like the shingles. You may not have an active outbreak but it can come back. I’m not in an LE and I’ve done enough work that I don’t think I’ll ever go down the rabbit hole again. I see limerence as a mode of behavior stemming from a disordered attachment style. I think I’ve fixed that.
5-6. I definitely think nobody has to be a lifetime captive to limerence. I tend to look at things in terms of its effect on my happiness. Does it contribute to my happiness or detract from it? If it detracts from it, it needs to go. Easier said than done, true, but between being happy and being unhappy, happy is better. Also, decisions and actions have consequences, often to innocent parties.
I’ve been at LwL almost since the beginning. It helped me a lot.
I always lap up your wisdom, L.E., including a lot from early blogs too.
But:
“You almost have to be a sociopath to compartmentalize it to the point where you don’t leak.”
Oh jeez. A new ‘almost’ diagnosis for me right there.
I’m going to take a little different stance. I don’t think LEs, as a general rule, are powder-keg situations that could explode the limerent’s primary relationship and/or the LO’s primary relationship. As evidenced by Frank’s LE … he and his LO have never met outside of work.
I think LEs can by psychologically damaging to the limerent and very distracting and therefore have effects on their primary relationship (which I’m not minimizing). And I think many limerents think their LEs are powder kegs. Such thinking adds excitement and drama. And excitement and drama are two reasons for the appearance of an LE (two of many possible reasons, of course). Particularly in middle age, when life can lack excitement and drama.
But at the end of the day most people will stay where they are. It’s human nature. It’s creature comfort to stick with the devil you know.
👩🦰 🏃
I knew you’d be the person to provide right answers to anyone who asks; you remember more than DrL—AI (might appear soon).
As long as there is 1% chance one can possibly harness LE fire (like DrL said in the article), I’d try it in the future. From Feb. 2024 to Oct. 2026, I already squashed 5 glimmers (I’m still tutoring one of them weekly (since I came back from Italy a year ago) and feel absolutely nothing! I think/fear steady awareness and logical/Stoic analysis would kill any glimmer even if it’s a desired/available one for me….
“Maybe, maybe not. Frank and his LO made a conscious and principled decision to say goodbye. “
What thorough answer you got here, it would be my Motto from now on, for all my future questioning — “maybe, maybe not.“ 😀
With rare mutual LE, I can’t imagine how hard it is to say goodbye to a “right LO”, even if with SO(s). My F still leads T, but much less than before; Stoic helped a great deal.
“Had they both been available, Frank likely wouldn’t be here.”
😳 I didn’t think of that! I thought Frank came here, as a LE spell-free “🐥” to tell us how he won the battle, so to encourage some hard-core Limerents, like ND, to “fight” harder.
“LO is a label, not a position.”
You mean LO, an LE object in the head, does not have a legal or social position in the society”? Why would anyone want to become LO, who is usually treated by limerent as “walking drug”? Having Eros+Hera+Athena together within sounds heavenly!
“Managing an LE takes work and one of the cornerstones of managing it is that your LO behaves themselves.”
Behaviors of LO (or anyone else) is completely “out of one’s control”; Often even our own mind and behaviors are out of our control, let alone our LO! 🙄
“Should Frank’s LO’s marriage go south, he might be the person she reaches out to. If he doesn’t want to come across as a schmuck, he might try to help her.”
So if still a previously-attached limerent becomes his/her LO’s confidant for right reasons, the LE fire would be rekindled and burn again for the same LE? But Frank said that his LE spell is already broken, why couldn’t he just naturally serve/help his xLO as a true friend/trustworthy confidant?
“My story on that subject is told in excruciating detail in the early blogs. “
When your ex-LOs reached out their hand to you, were you still LE-attached a little bit or was there still a bit of the spell left?
“Heaven help him if he should allow himself to become her confidant.”
Can a learned limerent resist a former LO’s genuine needs for an empathetic ear? Maybe Frank can suggest and pay for a Chatbots for her? (Just kidding 😃)
“For an attached limerent, that can be a very difficult line to walk. You almost have to be a sociopath to compartmentalize it to the point where you don’t leak.”
“Don’t leak” your secret LE? But once LE spell is broken, could it be recasted for the same LO again? Based on Frank’s answer, it seems that his LE spell has definitely gone with wind, and only true love remains.
“I consider myself “Post-limerent.” Limerence is kind of like the shingles. You may not have an active outbreak but it can come back.”
It can come back? I heard if one gets shingles shots, one’s protected for life. Can DrL/LwL serves as “LE “shingle shots” for limerents? (It’s not working well for ND)
“I’m not in an LE and I’ve done enough work that I don’t think I’ll ever go down the rabbit hole again. I see limerence as a mode of behavior stemming from a disordered attachment style. I think I’ve fixed that.”
I feel/think I’m in the same boat as you — fixed the old attachment style (cPTSD & Longing) and has become a post-limerent, only not as long as you are.
“I definitely think nobody has to be a lifetime captive to limerence. “
Thank God and you, it is possible. I was worried since I suspect that I was born a limerent. I had a crush at 7 for another 7 yrs neighbor boy and was so afraid to tell him (remember my then thought well) that I wanted to marry him in the future. My cousin finally helped pass my wish to him when we were 31! I heard that he laughed hard…
“I tend to look at things in terms of its effect on my happiness. Does it contribute to my happiness or detract from it? If it detracts from it, it needs to go. Easier said than done, true, but between being happy and being unhappy, happy is better.”
I can’t pin down how I define “happiness” and “contentment”. my “happiness” has joy and giddiness component (making me rock alone like a drunkard with pop songs); my contentment feels deep grounding (waking up with peaceful chest – buzzing 🆓). Bearing Stoicism in mind, I put others and whatever external matters all in the “out of my control” category and leave them alone, or let them pass my mind like wind… Then, I’m joyful and content; occasionally giddy with absence of pains, especially mental ones.
“Also, decisions and actions have consequences, often to innocent parties.”
Totally agree! Limerents needs to be often reminded of this, internally or externally.
“I’ve been at LwL almost since the beginning. It helped me a lot.”
Your LwL Database is larger than any DrL-AI. Next time when I have tough questions, I’ll just 🗣️ 🔊 👩🦰 🏃♂️ !
I think she did try to re engage after 9 months of no contact the first time. She and i realized the fire was still alive, but the separation became too real for the both of us. 2 years and every day it gets easier NOT to have contact.
If she did try to make contact I would have to disclose to her my limerent side for her. Would it be a different story if we both became available? At this point, probably not. The spell has been broken. We both realized what was about to happen and were mature enough to stop it. It was a workplace episode, and that’s where we let it stay. Therapist said we cared enough about each other not to wreck both our lives for a temporary, chemical fix. It was wise for one of us to run away. I realize now that it was the wrong time, wrong place, but the right person. The ONLY option for this time and this place was to end it. I think we both understood that at the same time, so it ended peacefully. I think if we made contact now it would show a lack of love and respect for the other person. Our silence proves our love now. That is our synchronicity now.
You can CONTAIN the fire for a time. But You cannot CONTROL the fire. You can put up barriers, but eventually they will erode over time. The limerent bug is stronger than your willpower, or your common sense. You will look back and wonder who that person was living in your body. Can love replace limerence? Yes, but both have to be available, without secrets or barriers. And it’s going to get complicated because the relationship is no longer a fantasy, so will the spark, attraction, infatuation, be sustainable? It will not. There has to be something more. There has to be a willingness to maintain through growth, maturity, and true love. Sacrificial love. My LE was brought about by my current life circumstances at that time. Or maybe I have been limerent my whole life. I don’t think I’ve ever totally shut the door on any romantic relationship! They’ve always ended on a positive note. So are we leaving the door open? No the door is shut, with both of us holding it closed.
From my residual limerent perspective, your story sounds like a sad ‘birdsong’….*sigh”
But as a graduating LwL ‘student’, I truly admire what you (& your LO) have achieved in the past two years — mutually contained/ended your LE at its peek fire is beyond most Limerents’ imagination or belief! LE addicts (if any here) would think you’re a pair of fools — throwing away God-bestowed “aliveness” that no one can intentionally obtain anywhere in this universe!
Before coming to LwL, I had many small crushes and one big LE thus ignorantly endured LE’s unpleasant~~excruciating pains (my physical heart can’t deal with any sorts of chemical, natural stimuli, ie. 2nd-hand smoking or roller-coaster rides, or high-slope skiing). Now after LE and its cause left more than a year ago, I’ve experienced so much grounding peace/security (physical & mental).
I don’t want that Fantasy relationship — “temporary chemical fix”, ever in my future (ok, maybe a little bit just for 3 month during initial crush), even if I’d feel dull or appear a big bore!
“True love /sacrificial love” you just talked about CONTAINs more meanings and gratification (to me) in the pursuit of it (I’m no stranger to it due to my Eastern upbringing). A lot of people in the West I’ve encountered seem unable to comprehend/ viscerally know how it works to gratify one’s mind and spirit…
Good luck to you in your finding/building sustainable, joyful “true love” with your family, friends, and SO.
Hmm. I never thought of it that way before. “Two fools throwing away their aliveness”. We both went NC at the peak of the relationship so WE COULD MAINTAIN the dopamine fix indefinitely? We didn’t give up on each other. We just changed the way we communicated. I gave her my uniforms and equipment and bought her goodbye gifts, she gave me her Fleetwood mac music, so we could maintain this invisible bond? That’s the ultimate limerent connection? One that lives on as long as NC remains? But it’s disguised as love and respect? I love you enough to let you go. Oh boy, that’s a whole lot of crazy! But I can see your point.
“I gave her my uniforms and equipment and bought her goodbye gifts, she gave me her Fleetwood mac music, so we could maintain this invisible bond?”
That pretty much sums it up.
Question:
Does your wife know about the little gift exchange? You can rationalize the uniforms and equipment. Fleetwood Mac music, not so much.
When you’re in the car and a Fleetwood Mac song comes on, will your wife know where your mind is?
Song of the Thread: “As Long As You Follow”
https://youtu.be/ROGEHq1WZqU?si=WTsaZovLQ5rIDaV5
A similar question here: with Fleetwood Mac songs playing even just in the head (besides in the car), how could LE spell ever be broken? 😀
Now thinking from another angle based on DrL’s Flowchart: https://livingwithlimerence.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Flowchart.png
Frank’s case clearly did not follow the middle and right lines, but it’s neither the left Full flow. The line was severed before “Ecstatic union” right after “full reciprocation”. So LE could not flow down to the box of “feelings fade”? Then where would the pent up LE energy go? Linger in the air or possibly go to their SO, respectively?
It’s Frank who initiated NC — leaving the job, but I’m not sure his LO truly wanted to say an authentic goodbye, because she gave him those possibly immortal songs (like some classical pomes), to invisibly run in Frank’s head (the mind can be more powerful than body). Most of LE exist(ed) in the head of limerent only; in this cases, mutually in two heads.
I’d like to know: how the LE spell was broken mentally, psychologically, neurologically based on DrL’s chart?
“Two fools throwing away their aliveness” just burped out of my mind at the moment when I was thinking what LE addicts would possibly think of this rare case. The word “aliveness” is borrowed from hardcore LwLers on the site, and it’s universally acknowledged throughout the history that “falling in love” makes one a fool (including a London judge)!
“We both went NC at the peak of the relationship so WE COULD MAINTAIN the dopamine fix indefinitely? “
I’m not sure I understand your logic here. 🤔 DrL might need another line in his Flowchart making a left turn/arrow after “Full reciprocation”, but leading to where/what box❓
Is it possible to “maintain the dopamine fix” with the body in NC but the mind in the sparkly air, with no more fresh fuel? How their LE could last while the two human bodies are still run/driven by “Ecstatic Union” DNA? substituted by their SO?
“…. so we could maintain this invisible bond? That’s the ultimate limerent connection? One that lives on as long as NC remains? “
Normally, LE “bond” is invisible; most LEs are unavailable and can’t go public. But a question is: with the physical NC, how long the sense of “this mutual invisible bond” could last while time and distance slowly erodes it. Frank says the spell is always broken, so the bond can still exist without the spell? 🤔. Has it become a chosen rational-limerence bond?
“But it’s disguised as love and respect? I love you enough to let you go. Oh boy, that’s a whole lot of crazy!”
I think “love and respect” here is not Eros/LE only, but comprised a combination of Greek “loves”. From my past witnesses, “true love” cares about the other side first while NOT ignoring one’s own self-care. Maybe the consideration for both SO’s wellbeing, Frank chose to walk away first?
Nonetheless, we almost never hear that limerents sever (or able to cut) the LE tie after a mutual reciprocation. Of course, if without any SO, they could somehow break other barriers and then beautifully dive (not helpless fall) in their LE union.
👩🦰 🏃♂️: Was DrL’s LE mutual before his LO left the job?
“But I can see your point”
I wasn’t trying to make any point yesterday, but just rambled out my thoughts of the moment. I hope I did/do not say anything offensive by questioning your case so much in public… 🙂
No. SO does not know. Never told LO of this whole limerence thing. Processing the guilt now. Hearing Fleetwood mac music isn’t painful or intrusive the way it used to be. Its actually a relief to know (or think) that she struggled too. Therapist said if I told SO, it would place the burden upon her, just let it pass, it’s just one chapter in your life that needs to be put on a shelf. It’s ok to visit, but you can’t live there. The guilt is the hardest thing to process. Who was this other person living inside of me? So out of character. I know, it’s a chemical reaction in your brain. I saw the signs but ignored most of them. I felt like a kid in grade school. In the beginning I wanted the whole world to know, in the end I wanted No one to know. If I’m in the car and Fleetwood mac comes on and SO is there I’ll be changing the channel. The guilt is mine to struggle with, I caused it, it’s mine to live with. I just lost my real best friend a year ago, therapist said my mind is searching for that last good dopamine fix i had to comfort me during this great loss. He was the only one I told about this. So the secret is all mine to carry. So that’s probably what my limerent brain wanted to hear. Oh, see she is still here, helping me cope with my loss! No!!!! She is not here, she is living her own life, she cares enough about us or me (or just herself) to stay away. And I understand to uphold my part is to stay away. She has put me on a shelf as just a chapter in her life. It’s time to live rationally again.
No offense taken. I’m looking for answers and opened another “can of worms”. It ended when I tried to rationalize my behavior to her. She knew it was getting heavy on my side when I said it’s getting cloudy. She said “no clouds in my sky!” She knew it was time to let go, and so did I. And why would she want to continue? There were three invitations to meet outside of work, work parties, etc. All public invitations. I showed up for none, apologized, she said she understood. 2 of those invites while I was working, the last was the reason she contacted me after 9 months NC. A retirement party for another coworker. I had planned on going but SO wanted to go. That was a wakeup call . What the heck was I doing? I think LO wanted to see if friendship was possible or maybe she was trying to break our/my limerence?
Oh, Boy! Without knowing more about your LO, I can only attempt to speculate your situation from my own experiences:
1. From all LE stories I heard from this site, LE (not a regular crush) is extremely hard to be let go, with or without NC. If LE is believed/truly mutual, then it would amount to nearly impossible to break on its own (without some external force), especially when LE flame is still at its peak.
“She said “no clouds in my sky!” She knew it was time to let go, and so did I. “
2. With my ESL and “alien” cultural background, I don’t quite understand here how you “knew” her mind/decision just through 5 short words? What “clouds” mean in her, in you and in your interactions? Carrying this interpretation (unable to clarify it with her?), you then promptly retire from your job? Is it ever possible that you reacted over-sensitively?
To me, if your LO indeed thought it’s time to go, it might be that she’s worried your LE is getting to the tipping point into a full-blown LE addiction (almost unstoppable by anyone/LO, it’s chemical effect in the brain), because your side was getting “heavy” and “cloudy”.
3. From my cultural upbringing (value long-term friendship than short-lived romance) and my experiences with the past limerent-friends (I was one-way LO a couple of times), I know a long-term post-LE friendship IS definitely possible (I’m seeing one in my town in a week or so, he just lost his father last month, whom I fondly knew for decades), but I don’t know what’s your LO’s usual-intake in family, friendship, and romance. Only you can possibly deduce her mind.
4. It sounds like she tried to maintain a limited colleague-friendship with you when you were still working. But since you were no longer there, she might want to see/explore if a better friendship could take place outside (free of workplace policy), which indicates to me that either her LE for you was not over or she was certain that she could maintain a post-LE friendship without crossing the line.
5. You said the LE spell was broken for you, how do you know, during the NC, it was also broken for her? If you never disclose or spoke with her directly about such a delicate matter, how could you ever know her mind, except guessing this or that, thus building uncertainty and anxiety?
6. From a Stoic and LwL stand, LO, specially a “right one”, can’t easily break his/her limerent’s LE, especially if it has become an addiction. After exchanging the gifts, you were gone — NC is in action/effect … After 9 month, why would she want to meet you just to break your realistically “nonexistent” limerence? My logic would be follow my answer #4, which can be totally wrong. You need to trust your own intuition.
Not sure if I presented my points clearly, but that’s all I could think of now. Sorry about the loss of your best friend and hope you’re gradually gaining more peace. Feel free to unload your stresses here in LwL, there are many willing hands to help.
Thank you for your sympathy in my loss of my best friend. To clarify, this all started about 2 years before I retired. I was ready and eligible to retire. I had just put my mother in a nursing home. I saw LO and found a reason stay. It was during covid and we were all wearing masks, so all I saw was her eyes. We saw each other in passing, but didn’t work next to each other until 3 or 4 months later. We overshared but not too much. We never discussed any spousal disputes, or any dissatisfaction with our current spousal relationships. I knew she was on her third marraige. She knew I married the same person twice. Then came the work survey. It asked “do you have a best friend at work?” So what started out as playful teasing (leaving snacks at her workstation, cleaning her car windshield, cleaning snow and ice off her company vehicle and personal vehicle) without her knowledge, became my confession later. But she must have known already because she kept filling in for my closest coworkers when they were on vacation, so she could work next to me. I gave a coworker my number with specific instructions to not give it to anyone. She managed to get it from him and began texting me. And sending me cartoons, memes, pics of her vacation while on vacation. But she was never in any of the pics. I reciprocated with the same. I bought her a ring pop (candy ring) and confessed to being her secret admirer and proclaimed to her that it’s serious now! But I had told her earlier that I didn’t socialize with coworkers, or date coworkers. This went on for another year and then my mother passed. I slowly started to give LO my uniforms and gear, because we were the same size. I told her I have another best friend, a stray dog that showed up after my mom passed. I named the dog, which unknown to me, was LO’s first dogs name. Was she making this up? Actually LO and dog share the same middle name. I did that on purpose. WHO AM I? LO told me that she has been listening to a lot of Fleetwood mac lately. She knew my retirement was coming. She invited me to 2 work parties but I never showed. She said later that she understood. I asked her what a bfaw became if one of us vacated this place. A meddling coworker said that I was talking to another woman at a union meeting, so she showed up at the next meeting to see who this was. Time to run! (Retire). So I left a month before my actual retirement date, a surprise to everyone at work. I left her all my uniforms and equipment. We continued to text for another 8 months, and I sent her the occasional gift (graphic t shirt, nuts, other snacks) through the mail. I saw a coworker one day she texted me and gave me a hard time for not coming to see her. We slowly started to not text as much. Then came 9 months of NC. I thought, thank you Jesus, it’s finally over. Whoops! She texted me to invite me to a retirement party. I didn’t show. My SO wanted to go. And then I sent LO some custom crown earrings. What is wrong with me? I apologized to her and thanked her for not abusing her authority. She could have ruined me/us. I told her that I sent her gifts because I’m from a military family and that’s what we do when we can’t be there (rationalization). She said she loved the earrings. I told her I must be crazy(is that disclosure?) she said that’s why we get along so well (is that disclosure?) I said it’s getting cloudy here and she said no clouds in my sky. So I gave her control, and she ended it? No clouds in my sky means I’m okay that it’s over? I hope. We seemed so connected until the end. It felt like we were grooming each other, so synchronized. It’s been 2 years NC.
Has the term “emotional affair” ever come up in any of your sessions?
From what you’ve related, it appears you hit some of the criteria?
And because of that exchange, we are still connected? That is troubling and comforting at the same time. Comforts the limerent side but terrifies the sane self. If she opens the door I must disclose to LO? I think she already knows. Was she really limerent towards me, or just playing along? It really doesn’t matter at this point does it? My mind will believe what it wants to believe. I believe she was limerent unless she tells me otherwise, and if she did tell me otherwise I wouldn’t believe it.
Frank,
“I believe she was limerent unless she tells me otherwise, and if she did tell me otherwise I wouldn’t believe it.”
It’s quite possible she likes the attention. And you haven’t verified her feelings or shared yours if I’m understanding you correctly.
I have a female friend who has been texting/sexting a guy for years. An old high school friend. They’re in their 40s now. I don’t know how they got back in touch or exactly when but they’ve flirted on and off for … years ? Initially, they were both with other people until they by chance happened to be single at the same time … and nothing happened. They didn’t even go on one date.
He ended up dating and getting serious with someone else.
I don’t relay this story to be mean, but what you had with your LO sounds like a text flirtation. And the lie we limerents tell ourselves is that we’d wind with our LOs if there were no barriers. But the likelihood of that is low. Your LO could end up dating someone else; you could end up dating someone else. You could go on one or two dates with your LO and the whole thing could fizzle out. There’s no way of knowing how compatible you are as you have never spent time with her outside of work.
Part of getting over limerence is letting go of the fantasy. I’m not saying it’s easy (because of course it isn’t) but it is possible.
Your not being mean, your helping me to understand what can be understood. So Is a text flirtation any less dangerous than a emotional affair to a limerent soul? It was definitely limerence on my side, I was completely out of character. There was a 20 year age difference, we both have other lives, we don’t even know each other outside the workplace, by my choice, not LO’s. Deep down I knew it could never work even if we were both available. But that didn’t stop me from showing her how special she was to me. Was she not also acting irrational by showing up to a meeting she had never been to so she could see who I was talking to? There was never any sexting, it wasn’t even a thing in my mind. I didn’t need that. I needed to care for somebody, and be recognized for it. And she was a willing, appreciative, old soul. I think I did let go of that certain fantasy (we would have been a go if no SO’s), but now there is a chance we didn’t let go. Like I said, if she ever wanted to rekindle, it would be disclosure time to LO. And all the reasons why it wouldn’t work, even to be friends. I saved no texts, pics, numbers. I don’t want this to ever blow up. Not just for my sake, but for hers. No clouds in my sky either. I’m satisfied with the outcome, and feel free of the spell. For now! 😂
Frank,
“So Is a text flirtation any less dangerous than a emotional affair to a limerent soul?”
Maybe not to a limerent but I’d say a flirtation is for sport. I can’t get inside your LO’s head and know what her motivation was or what her feelings were.
It’s hard for me to categorize something as an emotional affair if I never met up with the person, never talked to them on the phone, never disclosed feelings. Just texted. “Emotional affair” implies to me something kind of heavy, like turning to each other repeatedly, over time, for support you’d usually get from your SOs. And I think both people need to be on board with the emotional closeness/doing the emotional behaviors. It can’t be one person thinking they’re close and the other having fun with what they think is a flirtation. I’m not saying that’s what happened with you and your LO. Just relaying my opinion. It’s like dating. Two people have to think they’re dating seriously. Not one person thinks it’s serious and the other thinks it’s casual. Same principle.
“Was she not also acting irrational by showing up to a meeting she had never been to so she could see who I was talking to? ”
Maybe but I’m not sure what kind of response you’re looking for here. You may be looking for clues to her feelings or depth of feelings that may or may not be there.
“I needed to care for somebody, and be recognized for it. And she was a willing, appreciative, old soul. ”
There’s your answer. You have to find this in other places and in other people. Not your LO.
“Like I said, if she ever wanted to rekindle, it would be disclosure time to LO. ”
That would be your decision. LImerence does not take away free will. You still have the ability to ignore her if she reaches out. You still have the ability to stop yourself from reaching out to her. It’s up to you.
When is the last time you heard from her? If it’s been a while, you may be worrying for nothing.
“I’m satisfied with the outcome, and feel free of the spell. For now! 😂”
You’re not free of the spell or you wouldn’t be on here writing about it. 🙂
Frank,
(‘Was it a disclosure from her?’, ‘was it a disclosure from me?’)
If you think it was, then it probably was. My LE inflated like a balloon for 18 months. On balance I think it was mutual. Then a week of build up was followed by one conversation, and that pricked all the air out of it. Neither of us disclosed in that conversation in as many words. But we both knew the game was up and it changed instantly afterwards. It is now 14 months later and I still work with her, but all the limerence provoking behavior from both of us hit a hard stop that day. From what I can see of your story, you’ve done that too.
Frank,
“My mind will believe what it wants to believe. I believe she was limerent unless she tells me otherwise, and if she did tell me otherwise I wouldn’t believe it.”
I couldn’t help 😊 at your “looping, wishful mind ! (I’m not mocking you at all…) I think it’s LE still at work!
Sometimes, one can choose what to believe if chosen beliefs bring one profound sense of peace or joy; and if you know there is NO refute coming, like believing in God to me (I’m not religious), then what harm could it do if you choose to “Believe” now? That’s what I would do, instead of torturing myself with Yes or NO.
“but now there is a chance we didn’t let go. Like I said, if she ever wanted to rekindle, it would be disclosure time to LO. “
If you both are not free to act on your LE, why would you want to disclose to your LO now? Just to ease your seemingly agitated mind? (There are other partnered limerents on the site feeling such a strong urge from time to time…)
“And all the reasons why it wouldn’t work, even to be friends. I saved no texts, pics, numbers. “
It sounds like you want to be her friend now after you believe your LE spell is broken; can she still contact you?
“I don’t want this to ever blow up. Not just for my sake, but for hers. No clouds in my sky either. I’m satisfied with the outcome, and feel free of the spell. For now!”
That’s very kind of you to genuinely consider/care for the other side’s wellbeing — a “real love”…. But I agree with that you’re probably not out of the spell yet, or your loss made it relapsed lately. 😀
Definitely relapsed. But like I said, its NC for me. And if she truly respects me (she has so far) then it’s NC for her too.
Wow. That’s amazing to still work with them.Mine started out friendly but the need to meet outside of work was a boundry I could not cross. I’m here to unload my secret. It’s not secret anymore. It’s out there. I mean it could be limerence turned text flirtation. But it was never a ything like ‘miss you’ or anything like that. Just general things , pics. Like a picture of a rainy field while her son was playing soccer. Or a silly cartoon. I’d send her a picture of the track doing my daily walk. Nothing sexual or any innuendo . The closest thing sexually I ever told her was that I was not having naughty dreams about her. I never have. Even now they are pleasant. But I’m never opening that door. It’s been over 2 years NC.
Frank,
“I mean it could be limerence turned text flirtation”
Limerence doesn’t turn into a text flirtation. Limerence is the feeling; a text flirtation is they type of relationship. It sounds like you were limerent. You weren’t sure how she felt. And you texted back and forth stuff that was a little flirty and relatively light (it doesn’t sound like an emotional affair, another type of relationship that LE brought up).
“But I’m never opening that door. It’s been over 2 years NC.”
If it’s been over two years, she probably won’t reach out. Anything could happen. She could, but it’s probably not super likely.