No Contact is a tried and tested method for breaking the limerence habit.
It’s also more complicated than it first seems.
There are a few posts scattered around the site about the difficulties and challenges around No Contact, but I thought it might be useful to summarise the key facts in a simple guide – a checklist of what to do and what to expect when you decide to break contact with a limerent object.
You can download the No Contact Checklist, by filling in the form below and joining my email list.
Freedom awaits!
This is exactly what I needed. I am preparing for LO’s inevitable move across the country in the near future, which will be a relief.
In the meantime, however, I am really struggling to maintain No Contact, and not doing very well. I am very disappointed in myself.
Don’t be harsh on yourself. All the research Dr L has done shows why it’s so hard getting ourselves out of this altered mental state. You’re not alone in finding it challenging. If self-blame will help you get out of limerence, then by all means use it as a tool, but if (as I suspect) it won’t, reject it.
Self-blame doesn’t help, but your earlier comment about vulnerability did help me. That was an excellent point.
That was Fenna!
I know it was Fenna, but I am still giving you full credit for emphasizing it.
Don’t be too hard on yourself. It takes time.
Self-loathing seems to be a common facet of limerence.
https://youtu.be/bpNw7jYkbVc?feature=shared – “I Hate Myself for Loving You” – Joan Jett
It almost seem a prerequisite to get to the “What was i thinking phase.”
To L.E.:
I definitely am in the self-loathing phase, but I have not reached the “what was I thinking” stage. I still look at LO and, despite all of his unpleasant qualities, I find him fascinating.
I have the Joan Jett song on my playlist.
I guess my feelings will just have to die away after he moves.
to paraphrase Lucy Bain:
it isn’t necessary to go No Contact to get over limerence,
and in the same vein, No Contact doesn’t guarantee recovery from limerence
..but it does make the recovery process faster and smoother.
and
Both are true, initially the first, and eventually, the second.
No Contact can be extraordinarily difficult to maintain, especially in this age of social media.
I had the willpower to cut all direct and indirect contact, yet still found myself trying to “cheat”, by listening into the conversations of the handful of colleagues who kept in touch with her, ears tuned like an Aegis sonar for the slightest snippets of information..
Then by chance I noticed her signature in the log exactly 7 weeks after our last contact, she’d visited on a day when I’d usually be present (there were a couple of plausible reasons for her to drop by, unrelated to me).
From then on, I religiously checked the log..
Curiously, she dropped by again – precisely 14 weeks into No Contact. And it was a weekend when I would have worked, save for a last-minute shift swap.
A coincidence for sure, yet she next showed up at, yes, 21 weeks post NC – this time at a work function, which I couldn’t attend as I was working that day..
So even with No Contact, three near misses, so evenly spaced as if on a schedule, messed with my head a little, though I’m sure it was all coincidental.
I decided on the 28 week mark to break No Contact myself, by that time (6 months) I felt over her enough to risk it.
I found it helpful, though it’s definitely not advisable.
Our conversation at one level talked about superficial stuff, with deeper subcontexts alluding to our last actual contact (during which she’d crossed a boundary), and I read that as her explaining away her behaviour.
At the 1 year mark, I decided to risk something that I knew not to do, even at peak limerence: peruse in depth her social media.
Social media is highly curated, so one only sees the facade the author wants you to see, yet even so, this was extremely informative and helpful.
I got a sense that my ex-LO is a limerence magnet, and it wasn’t just me.
A social butterfly, or social chameleon.
Others had labelled her as their “bestie”, but they were only bit-players in her life..
And of the hundreds of people she’s played with.. I did not rate a single mention.
That’s quite a story. How are you feeling by now?
You sound highly disciplined. I admire you.
Thank you Norma.
I understand your own ex-LO is toxic too.
Lucy Bain (who also had a toxic LO) has written that when you reach the point where you say “what did I ever see in them?”, you know that you’re over them.
I’m at the point where I wish her well, was happy that our lives intersected briefly, and accept that we may never meet again ~
My situation was the easiest type of limerence to get over – a toxic LO combined with a NC period that was difficult to breach.
This meant that when I eventually got in contact 6 months down the track, it was with fresh eyes.
And when I studied her online profile from a “delimerated” perspective, the red flags were bright and clear, yet a year before, I saw them as green.
In rational terms the solution and outcome was a no-brainer.
I can’t even imagine how difficult it would be for those whose LO’s are actually decent, and with whom they’re in regular (or worse, irregular) contact.
I guess I have a couple things in common with you. I am glad you are getting to a healthier place. It seems like your LO manipulated you more than mine does. Mine makes vague promises that he doesn’t keep, but I don’t see him as much of a game-player.
I have a long way to go before I can say, “What did I ever see in him?”, even though he is unkind and neglectful. You’d think it would be easier to move on from someone like that.
@ghostzoned
I enjoy reading your posts. Your writing style is concise and admirably described. I can identify with you easily, in how you have reached your conclusions.
You write of your LO in a way that I would sort of describe my LF. (Breaking NC, eye contact) Seeing her somewhat needy of my validation for her own selfish end of things. Knowing a little more of how she is now is helpful in keeping my thoughts in check. Especially when it comes to not letting her get the best of me.
I don’t believe I’m quite at the stage of “what did I ever see in them?” yet, but I may be soon..
One helpful piece of info about ex-LO’s like yours and mine, is that ultimately, they are bad for you & me.
That’s because we are attracted to certain somewhat dangerous aspects about them, as if we crave more drama in our lives..
I refer you to https://livingwithlimerence.com/a-new-guide-on-how-to-find-love-as-a-limerent/
Some “lucky” limerents, such as SJ below, can entertain the possibility of befriending their ex-LO, as they are attracted to something good and wholesome they see in them.
Not me, and probably not you either.
We are attracted to bad girls.
Not necessarily utter skanks (a turn-off to me, but a green flag to some of the lads I hung around), but certainly I am drawn to intelligent yet very naughty women who most likely bear cluster-B traits..
I kinda figured this out long ago, my first LTR had a borderline personality disorder, which I was sort of familiar with due to at least one in my family.
Ever since then, I realised that whenever I got that special tingle of recognition, it was actually a danger sign.
I’d resolved to only commence relationships with women who didn’t remind me of past girlfriends, and by process of elimination, I have ended up with someone good and wholesome, and we’ve been together over two decades now~
But it does mean that those women who excite me the most, are best avoided.
Ghostzoned,
“I’d resolved to only commence relationships with women who didn’t remind me of past girlfriends, and by process of elimination, I have ended up with someone good and wholesome, and we’ve been together over two decades now~
But it does mean that those women who excite me the most, are best avoided.”
So how did you do that? How did you get reprocess your attraction to a different kind of woman? (One who was better for you.) You consciously told yourself: This woman is better for me and you grew attracted to her ?
You’re on here so I’m assuming you’re still struggling with attraction to/ limerence for the other type of woman ?
I struggle with this as well. Being attracted to the wrong kinds of men. I’m not going to say “bad boys” as that evokes images of Marlon Brando in “The Wild Ones.” 🙂 At my age, the men who are around my age don’t show up with that kind of look/demeanor/energy. 🙂 But they are men of … let’s just say … dubious character.
Hm.. I’d say my relationship history evolved as a process of not wanting to repeat the same mistakes.
And I’m no longer struggling with limerence at the moment – though I do suspect now that I actually am prone to limerence like most everyone here (when posed the same question last year, I was sure that MPDG was my sole brush with limerence), it’s just that I’ve always been quick to nip it in the bud, at the glimmer stage – until MPDG came along with her persistent flirting~
I’m past the longing stage, past the part where I don’t wanna ever see her face again, and currently indifferent to whether or not we cross paths, whether today or in the distant future or never..
I still like to check in here from time to time..
And there’s something else.. although it may require more space /different thread to explore this.
I’m fascinated by the limerent experience, the incredible high that makes things possible.
That LE brought out parts of me that I didn’t know existed.
And this site is unique in that some people here try to live with limerence, rather than quash it.
I’m convinced that many great achievements in human history were created under the influence of limerence.
It would be wonderful to be able to tap into that, alas for those LE’s fuelled by negative passions, it’s fraught with risk..
Ghostzoned,
“That LE brought out parts of me that I didn’t know existed.
And this site is unique in that some people here try to live with limerence, rather than quash it.”
I relate and think this is an interesting discussion point. For a time, my most recent LE took me to higher plains of energy and creativity than I knew I had in me. I am one of those who doesn’t intend to squash every bit of life out of it.
‘It does until it doesn’t’ though, if you know what I mean. Eventually there was matching energy depletion to even it out during the ‘comedown’. Was that your experience too?
“I’m convinced that many great achievements in human history were created under the influence of limerence.”
I bet you’re right, but I also bet they happen in early limerence, like the first 6 months. After that, limerence becomes more of a pain, a chore and a management task, than a ‘muse’.
“Ultimately, they are bad for you & me.
That’s because we are attracted to certain somewhat dangerous aspects about them, as if we crave more drama in our lives..”
“We are attracted to bad girls. Not necessarily utter skanks, but certainly I am drawn to intelligent yet very naughty women”
@ghostzoned,
At the height of whatever I was attempting to start up with LF, I was in sort of a reverie stage. She started looking really good to me. Our conversations were not always just about work drudgery. Often dwelling on other intelligent personal matters going on in her life outside of work and mine. I felt as if her and I were headed toward something greater, but I couldn’t really ever define it. I never considered myself as over-the-top with the feelings I was having towards her. At least nothing like in the true limerent way I felt over LO. (LF somewhat got me over LO) I’ve always maintained limerent-like qualities over LF. Never considering it a full blown LE though.
Looking recently at some of my past posts (and even some that I saved to send on a later date), I see clear as day now, how over-the-top for LF I actually was. Reading them almost seems cringe. How I was over-analyzing every ridiculous little detail and banking on her every word or action. It was never like that and I don’t know why it took a petty disagreement between us, for me to figure that out. Some polite chiding from others’ comments here seem to make more sense now too. Perhaps I was in the altered state.. Imagine that..
All that aside, once I found out she was playing the homewrecker role, a part of me became crushed. It was as if all that sweet imagery in my head (of her/of us) all went up in flames and imploded. I almost felt personally betrayed yet it’s not like it was anything personal she did towards me. We were never anything.. It’s just who she is. I stewed in a lot of anger over it for almost a week. Thinking about the fraud she is and even him too for that matter. I’m still good friends with him to this day. LF still never comes up. Why should she? (It’s everybody’s little secret.)
After finding out about her affair and me finally getting off the anger train about it, what I realized was, I have no reason to be mad at her. What she does with him isn’t supposed to cause me to dislike her any more. Who am I to judge? I am hardly a Saint. In any capacity.
What I also realized is I’m almost turned on by the fact she’s being a bad-girl. That she kinda knows it, owns it and doesn’t seem to care. Yet I know inside, a part of her, (if not all), is a hot mess..
Even though things are basically very LC between us these days, she still casts sort of a spell over me. Her little dalliance with Dude only increases that.. The way she carries herself about. Catches me looking at her. How she acts around other Men. Gets more arm tats and comes to work with dark hickeys on her neck. Tying her hair up in double french braided pigtails, (I complimented her all the time about it) I mean it is borderline trashy (if not outright skanky), but I definitely kinda like it.
The main reason I believe I’m having these recurring feelings over her again is the fact she was a good friend to me for a good year and I miss her.
I’m sorry how I read all the signals wrong. Which really weren’t signals at all. She just liked me as a friend. A older guy friend. I didn’t play my cards right. Whether or not she got Dad vibes from me and liked them, I may never know. She alluded to it a few times, so maybe.
“Currently indifferent to whether or not we cross paths, whether today or in the distant future or never.”
At this point, I’m not clouded by anything she’s doing. I go out of my way to avoid her. I nod towards her and may say what’s up but I don’t make it a habit. Most nights I don’t really care to ever talk to her. I think it kind of drives her crazy too because I still catch her looking at me sometimes. We used to be so close and around each other so much at work, we could’ve almost been inseparable. But those days have since passed. (That was just big dummy me anyway, hanging around little ol’ her, like a lost puppy dog.. Pathetic.. )
It’s the space I’m giving her now that she wanted. So if it’s too much space, it’s on her to change it.
I’m trying to be indifferent and not the one clinging to her every word or action. She needs validating and that’s not my job. I’m getting too old for that and she’s still being immature.. It’s cute but I can do better..
At least that’s what I keep telling myself..
Did we fall limerent to the same woman, MJ?
MPDG’s behaviour and personality is extreme, to the point of being a characateur, like she’s auditioning for a movie role.
Or as the “Siren” or “Coquette” in https://www.aarondanielfilms.com/blog/the-9-archetypal-lovers-you-are-attracted-to
And yes, she’s intelligent, she knows what she’s doing, and “owns it”.
So she stands out, and gives this impression of being unique, a one-off.
But it’s all a front. Which is fine, we all have one.
Yet she revealed glimpses of the insecure little girl beneath the facade, at the end, when it was clear I’d shaken any hold she had over me.
Interesting, that she let the mask slip..
And yet even then, she perhaps was still playing her game, giving the impression that it was for my ears only.
“Did we fall limerent to the same woman, MJ?”
ghostzoned
I have to admit the similarities make that very possible, lol..
I found the article fascinating. LF definitely fits the definition of Coquette, and then some. These lines especially.. 👇🏻
“They tease us. This may seem like an obvious unattractive trait, but the reason they spark any sort of infatuation is because of their ability to plant a seed of desire in our minds that continues to grow without them needing to be there. Consciously or subconsciously, they’ve come to understand what we desire, and insinuate that they are the solution to our desires — all without being present.”
That last part, “all without being present” describes her outright.. It’s like she was somehow laying all the cards out, not knowing what she was doing, but seemingly knowing what she was doing so things were going to go “her” way.. Me ever trying to deviate her away from her plan was never in the cards. She wasn’t going to be present. So her manipulative 30 years seemed to overshadow and out-run the 24 years I have over her. It’s so crazy how she had that kind of effect on me. As if being the older, cooler Dude in her life was just about having another feather in her cap in how she could play the Men in her life. Like she was the older person and I was the younger, immature person, who doesn’t and won’t get it. How did this happen?
Mostly I think it’s just the nature of the dating market nowadays. Which is nothing like it was 20+ years ago. I’ve had to really adjust to what expectations turn out to be, from what ever I thought they should be. Like basically turning everything upside down from what I’ve learned.
Casey Zander on YouTube discusses a lot of points about today’s modern Women and what all their dating nonsense actually means. Initially I found his rhetoric insane, but the more I have given him a chance, the more I start to see how so much actually makes sense.
MJ,
“I found the article fascinating. LF definitely fits the definition of Coquette, and then some.”
So … this is my two cents … nobody plays hard to get for very long if they want to be gotten. (I think this is true of both men and women.)
“Nobody plays hard to get for very long if they want to be gotten.”
Marcia
I agree. This is why I must thank you for helping me to realize that being an “orbiter” is not a good thing.
Remember when LF came into the picture, she was the first person post LO. So her showing me whatever little interest thru intense eye contact is what drew me in to approach her. You don’t consistently stare at somebody like that for months and then not expect me approach. I wanted to see what it was about and now I do. It’s too bad it turned out to only be for her own selfish end. I regret making more out of things than they actually were. But I’m sure that was my limerent mindset still recovering from LO fallout.
LF was a cool Friend though and I do miss her. But not enough to engage with her on that level again..
Update!!
A new Lady has transferred over from another department recently. I met her last week and she is very personable and quite attractive to the eyes. Very helpful and lovely to be around. I look forward to how this might be playing out.
Stay tuned.. 😁
MJ,
“I agree. This is why I must thank you for helping me to realize that being an “orbiter” is not a good thing.”
It’s a horrible thing!
Not to sound harsh … but she allowed herself to be caught. By the married guy.
“It’s too bad it turned out to only be for her own selfish end. ”
What was so selfish about it? In all honesty … You were friends. You were both getting something out of it. I don’t think it was some diabolical plot to use you.
“A new Lady has transferred over from another department recently. I met her last week and she is very personable and quite attractive to the eyes. Very helpful and lovely to be around. I look forward to how this might be playing out.
Stay tuned.. 😁”
Don’t dilly dally on this one! Find out if she is single and ask her out asap if you sense some interest/you develop a rapport. Make your intentions known. And if she gives you an indirect answer or is confusing … move on! 🙂 No orbiting! No friend zone! 🙂
To ghostzoned:
Thank you for reminding me that No Contact doesn’t guarantee recovery from limerence.
That’s an important point to remember.
There is a practical basis for No Contact.
In the security arena, risk is defined as:
Risk = Threat [e.g., LO] x Vulnerability [e.g., the limerent] x Consequence [e.g., an affair]
If any factor = 0, there is no risk.
No Contact is effective because it separates the Threat (LO) from the Vulnerability (you).
To Limerent Emeritus:
What you say is true, but there are more risks involved with limerence than affairs.
I don’t want to get into an argument with you, because I will lose. However, I have found that, on several occasions, having contact with LO was actually better for me because his unpleasantness drove me away. When I was alone, my mind convinced me that he was nicer than he actually is. When I saw him face-to-face, and he behaved badly, it helped me more than being away from him.
I do agree that No Contact is better and safer overall, but there can be exceptions. I am single and LO is single, and an affair is not an issue. But my heart hurts just as much as any other limerent here.
An affair was just one example.
Risk has context. Limerence in the workplace comes with risk outside the workplace doesn’t.
2.5 years into LO #3 (very likely my last LO) and still absolutely no intention to go no contact with him: No way. Nope. Never going to happen…
I won’t minimize that this experience has been, and continues to sometimes be, downright awful and frustrating, but more often it is one of the most interesting and educational challenges I’ve ever had to work through. For me, working through limerence is a psycho-spiritual transformational process. Above all maintaining receptivity opens (forcefully?) opportunities to ponder and further acquaint myself with the Triune God, but especially the “son”, or Christ. During the difficult moments when I’m struggling to swallow a mouthful of unrequited desire I have no choice but to deal with everything He ever taught, everything He ever endured, and everything ever written, spoken or done in His name (i.e. the lives of the saints). May limerance always take me in this direction.
In more ordinary, worldly terms: Have any of you done allergy shots? Okay, well my time with LO does sort of the same thing. Every day I work with LO, every time something sweet happens between us or the few times he responds to my texts (the few times I text him) I’m building up a tolerance to that pesky, rather unrelenting “I-know-I’m-married-but-he’s-really-the-one!” feeling. Yes, he’s a great guy and yes, he’s attractive and yes, I think he’s pretty amazing…. but oh well…Brownies and ice cream and diamonds make me a very happy woman but moderation in those things are good for my budget and health. Moderation with LO is good for my dignity and self-worth.
I’m tired of being one of the outliers here… surely there are more people out there that have been able to integrate limerence into their lives!
Possibly you’re an outlier in being comfortable with your limerence, but visiting and posting here nonetheless! But before I discovered this site and was searching the internet for other married people with crushes, I’m pretty sure I found other posts by people who viewed their crush as something fun to make life more interesting, rather than something to be stressed about.
Hi SJ,
Your post here is very interesting. As regards outliers, well, I am also one who has integrated limerence than pushed it away.
This is well-worn LwL information but I’ll repeat it in case you haven’t read my stuff. I work in close contact with my LO and we have been friends over a decade (pre-dating even my relationship with my SO).
To go NC in the first of those circumstances is impossible, and in the second I don’t really want to try to artificially and ruin that long friendship.
When I first saw the name of this blog was *Living with* limerence, that felt like what I wanted and needed to do – learn to live with it.
Caveat – there are some (most) here for whom NC *definitely* seems the best option. What you’re advocating and what I’ve done to live with it are not for everyone.
I tried a phase, just short of 2 years into the LE, of close to ‘gray rocking’ my LO – as little and as non-intense contact as was possible. It felt awful and artificial, and I felt awful too – energiless. She was partly consensual in that change to our dynamic.
That lasted about 3 months during which time I had no energy and being in the workplace became a real struggle. Then I let up on it and went some way back towards normal.
I have been plesantly surprised since, because the LE has faded into the background more, and interactions between us are more natural and less laced with the fuel of limerence. It is still there for sure, just at a different lower level where I am less tempted to ‘poke the bear’ and see a more rounded view of her.
I’ll venture that it actually feels quite pleasant at times – much more so than the gray rocking because it is hopefully easing it away in its own time. I want to caveat this though – I have to watch very carefully for signs of slippage in my head (for when I go back towards rumination and false expectations) and pull back a little when they happen. It does happen, and can be delicate, like maintaining a rope at just the optimum tension. And I think I couldn’t have reached this stage without the gray-rock stage first.
“I’m building up a tolerance to that pesky, rather unrelenting “I-know-I’m-married-but-he’s-really-the-one!” feeling.”
Here I am interested if we’re experiencing similar. Do you mean that (over time), each time you have that feeling it becomes slightly less intense? Or more that you can be ‘great, I know I can cope with this now. In fact it even feels quite pleasant”?
This is an interesting conversation. I’m a bit torn by the whole “no contact” thing in my situation. We have several reasons to be in contact, making no contact impossible right now. I’m pretty sure that if no contact were possible, I’d be fine about it and not look back. I think my mental health and my marriage are in a much better place than when this LE started so I’m not vulnerable to falling for another guy in the same way I did for this one.
So it’s a case of figuring out how to manage and contain the crush given that no contact is impossible, and even limited contact isn’t going that well. Mainly I’ve worked on stopping the fantasies and noticing and reversing the constant reminders. It’s a slow process but it is going in the right direction.
I do keep on panicking that I’m not doing enough, and that all the various reasons for seeing him are just a sign of my limerent brain justifying continued contact. But then when I try to work out if there are any concrete steps I could take to reduce contact further without blowing my cover I draw a blank.
I do feel as though I’ve made a lot of progress, and just hope it’s enough. I guess time will tell.
🌥,
The ‘blowing cover’ bit was a concern for me too. How to lower contact enough without it being obvious there was more to it. As I look at it more in the rearview mirror, it is clear to me now that I blew my cover at that point, probably before. LO knows alright, it is just never a thing either of us is going to mention.
“I do feel as though I’ve made a lot of progress, and just hope it’s enough. I guess time will tell.”
Important to me in gauging this, and maybe helpful to you – are you better at getting early warning signs of ‘backsliding’, knowing why they happen and knowing how to act to reverse them? These are my key indicators.
To SJ:
I am not married, and neither is LO, and I told him right up front that I have a crush on him. He was unfazed and said we could still be friends. Since he is gay, there was never any possibility of romance.
I figured there was no downside here, since neither one of us has a partner.
I enjoyed the exhilaration of the crush tremendously, particularly since I am over 70, long divorced, and thinking I would never feel like a giddy teenager ever again.
I used to tell LO, half of me is my chronological age, and the other half of me turns 12 again, year after year.
Unfortunately the friendship became too problematic due to him having a hair-trigger temper and living a hectic life that allows for little to no free time.
The fun parts of limerence became less and less. Then he callously told me that he was selling his house and moving to the other side of the country. He gushed about the new place he had found with no consideration for my feelings.
It’s gotten to the point where I wish he would just leave and I could forget I ever met him. His house is large and very weird, and may take many months to sell.
If I felt more valued by him as a friend, maybe things would be different.
No Contact is my only option here.
LaR, good point, thank you.
With backsliding, it’s early days to compare strategies. I slid back the other day without even seeing him, because I was stressed. That has blown over now but I panicked about it at the time. Maybe being more analytical about it and planning what to do will be better than panicking!
☁️,
It may not work the same for you, but I am training myself to see backsliding coming, almost trying to anticipate potential for it and take self-protective actions if I feel that. It can be predicted by 1. trends in other life events, 2. level of exposure to LO (usually too much exposure is the trigger, but occasionally also too little).
It’s all a learning curve. I wish you no or minimal backslides – you sound like you’ve moved forwards!
LaR, thank you, I will try that. I hope you are moving forwards too.
Ok I’m going to say it here: No Contact isn’t possible in my case. I accept what Dr L says, that one can’t be friends with a LO, but I am already friends with him, as is my husband. I’m also friends with his wife. Our children are friends with each other. All (or partly) engineered by me in early, very unwise, days of limerence. I can’t reverse this all without arousing suspicion.
It’s true that I can’t control how he behaves. I can’t think how convenient it will be not being in contact with him over the six-week summer holidays, because I can’t control whether there will be contact during that time. On the other hand, I’ve discovered that the six week holiday isn’t a very helpful “no contact” period anyway, because it has an end date.
So I have to look to the other thing that’s true: the problem is in my head, and that’s where it needs to be solved. Luckily that is something I have some control over, and that is where I have been concentrating my efforts. It is going in the right direction. I accept that all the above throws challenges, but they are not insurmountable.
This is so interesting. If you had it to do over, would you have tried to discourage all the inter-family friendships? I assume you did it so that you would have an excuse to see LO but have thought better of it by now.
I would probably have done the same thing in your situation.
Good question. I don’t know! I suspect I might not be being entirely rational about all this. I value all the friendships involved and would love the end result of this episode being all the friendships intact but the inappropriate level of attraction on my part gone.
The limerence initially was an alarm bell for my life and for my marriage and already things are greatly improved in a number of areas. Several positive things have come out of this. I think a lot of the remaining misdirected crush is habit and I’m feeling much less desperate than I was, but I still think about this man more than I want to.
Is my preferred end-goal possible or is it just limerence-addled brain talking? If I read someone else on this page writing this, I would roll my eyes and think that they were still in the early stages and had to do more work to realise their folly. Am I being realistic to think it’s possible? Or am I being unfair on myself to doubt that it is?
Dear ☁️,
“Am I being realistic to think it’s possible? Or am I being unfair on myself to doubt that it is?”
I think for some people it is possible. But you need a strong mind and a strong will. Personally, I am on quite a friendly level now, with LO. I had to rationally think myself out of limerence first, though. I am LC (rather than NC) and am still attracted to him. It took me ages to get here. I had to kind of demonise him /it first and he does have tbe ability to annoy the hell out of me, which helped 😁
Sorry, I wanted tonadd that I think I was lucky too because I have a great SO, the least annoying person you could imagine. So pressures in my marriage were not a stressor (as they are for some but not all limerents). External pressure which I believe contributed to limerence were alleviated and that also helped my recovery.
Thank you for all your thoughts Bewitched. It’s really helpful to compare notes because everyone’s situation has some differences and some similarities, and yours seems quite similar to mine.
My husband is lovely and brilliant and I’m very happy with him. Nonetheless, there were some stressors in our marriage. Partly because it’s easy in middle age to concentrate on kids and work and not pay enough attention to each other, plus a couple of other specific things. There were also big stressors in my life. These issues are resolved now so it is just a case of deprogramming myself. It is going in the right direction so I just need to trust in the process, even if I can’t do it the “best” way.
Hi☁️
I saw your comment yesterday and meant to reply. I found it again by chance.
you have a bit of a burden in that you , LO, SOs and children are now interconnected. You played with fire and now you are needing to handle the consequences. I am not trying to be harsh by saying this, because I also thought I can handle ‘it’ but turns out I cannot.
It’s hard to know it when it’s your first LE in a LTR, until you find you are in too deep.
It seems you have made some good progress on handling all of this in the right direction.
You have not spoken of your LOs actions ( unless I missed it). If he is not giving you any signs of connection or hope, then maybe focus on that, so you can be sure he is not interested in you at all. Take it as a ‘rejection’ to try to dial down the limerence. It’s finding those reality checks to really provide clarity and certainty to help dim limerence versus uncertainty which fuels it like hell.
Hello ☁️ Grey Cloud,
Just to add the only downside of using an emoji only for your name is you cannot search for replies to your posts.
The ‘find in page’ function is really the only way of keeping track on LWL, because of the way the site is structured to only show recent comments, which can cycle very quickly.
Best wishes if you do happen to read this.
Thank you Imho, I’ve found your reply! I think I chose the ☁️ because it’s less easy to search for and more anonymous. (I was previously known as Monochrome and may change name again in future).
Yes, I’ve been panicked by the whole playing with fire thing. I really don’t want to do anything to make this situation more dangerous or to upset my wonderful husband.
Besides the family friendships there is a work-related reason for me to be in touch with both him and his wife so there really isn’t a way to cut contact without blowing cover or engineering a massive false fall-out. I did actually turn down a request of his which would have meant much closer, more regular contact with him, and I continue to have to turn down similar things in order not to arouse suspicion, which affects my work. But at least I can hold my head up high and say I did what I could. It’s hard to know what else I can do without arousing suspicion given the multitude of different occasions our paths cross.
The LO’s actions are outgoing and friendly, because he is an outgoing and friendly person. It’s easy to think those kinds of people are interested but I’m not under any illusion that my crush is returned. A lot of the fantasies I was having hinged on a discovery of returned feelings, but after reading Smitten and all the stuff on this site, I realise that this was just a symptom of limerence and I have a a routine for banishing those thoughts as and when they appear in my head and they have largely gone.
More to the point, if I were single I would choose my husband again because if I love him, and looking objectively he is more suited to me. So this crush really is just a distraction.
Imho – there’s an extraneous “if” in my post above – in the last paragraph it should say “because I love him”.
When I look at how impossible No Contact is, it all seems hopeless. But I’m still feeling optimistic. I’m definitely feeling less burdened than I was by this crush and it’s less intrusive than it used to be. It’s still there (hence posting so much here!), but more of a normal crush than full-blown limerence. I don’t think about him all the time and I don’t fantasise about him any more. Partly due to discovering this site and putting effort into deprogramming, and partly due to improvements in my life and my marriage.
The other positive change I can make is to cultivate more local friendships besides this family, and that is something I can focus on without arousing suspicion, and is also fun and enjoyable in its own right. It will make LO’s family less significant by comparison.
Hi ☁️,
I fully respect the anonymity of your pseudonym.
I do wonder if I post here too long or too often that some AI bot pieces together all the bits of my identity. But I’m quite careful not to share too much information. It’s more what’s in my head that I share than my job, location etc.
It’s a big world and yet a small world at the same time isnt it ?!
I am very impressed by your awareness and dealing with this whole LE so close to your family and also your work situation too. That could be so overwhelming, yet you have implemented a good plan of action. I admire you and all the steps you are taking.
The surity of your love for SO and marriage comes across so strongly. That is very special.
It helps that you know your LO is outgoing and friendly generally and he hasn’t given you “signs”. For me, there is (was) clear signs of attraction, and the subsequent brain chaos to assess the level of reciprocation which never resolves.
You are on a good path, that you brought it back to a crush and I wish you much success to inspire others too. More friendships with other friends and your family friendships that your are nurturing will hopefully help dilute the time and significance of your LO and his family.
Keep us posted. I think it will really help others sharing your approach and tips.
Thank you Imho. Let’s hope you (and I) are right and I’m not just still in an extended “I can handle this” phase. Time will tell, I guess.
I’m sorry things have been difficult for you re reciprocation. I think reading all the stuff here, and the book “Smitten” has helped me to wonder less and be more comfortable about the fact of not knowing and it not mattering. When I think back to my single days, the question of whether someone liked you back was more complicated than “yes” or “no”. Two people might be attracted to one another enough for a snog, or to go on a date, but not be compatible more than that, or there may be a relationship that lasts a certain length of time but doesn’t work out. You might even have ended up married to someone completely different if life had worked out differently, but what’s the point in speculating? At the end of the day we don’t have one perfect “soul mate”, other than knowing that right now, due to a combination of compatibility and circumstances, I know I’m with the right person.
Then there’s the question of whether the limerent object is limerent for you in return. That’s where the fact that limerence is not really about the LO but about yourself and your mental state. So even if they were limerent back, it wouldn’t be about you, but about their mental state.
☁️
“Then there’s the question of whether the limerent object is limerent for you in return.”
Days, months and years can be lost rumimating on this question. Guilty as charged. If you have no intention of asking them, and if they still have to be in your life, the real trick is to get OK with the idea that it simply *doesn’t matter*, and that no good can come of knowing. I’d say I’m 75% there with that now, just being OK with her being around, living her life, me living mine, and me not knowing.
I say all this with kindness, not meant as a judgement or lecture. Boy oh boy will I always remember the internal battle it took me to reach even this stage, so I know what it’s like. This community is such a help. (Hopefully ‘Smitten’ has similar advice on that to what I said. If not, ignore me!)
LaR,
Let’s celebrate your 75%! Sending strength your way for the remaining 25%.
I have a small “No Contact” victory to report. It’s very small, please don’t get your hopes up.
I live right near a high-end candy store that celebrates National Lollypop Day every July by giving out one free one to each customer. The last two years, I asked LO what he wanted and got it for him.
This year, I was not tempted to ask LO. I got my own damn lollypop and ate it.
Baby steps.
Do we have any bookies on LwL?
They could come up with a betting line on whether ND’s LO will ask,
“Where’s my lollipop?”
Did your lollipop taste better knowing the significance of it?
To L.E.:
Actually, yes, it was fabulous. I savored it and reminded myself that I deserved it far more than LO did.
👏👏👏
I realized a few days ago that a long-time virtual friend (whom I’ve met in person, one time, by accident, 20+ years ago) is not really my friend but an LO for me.
We have had frequent intense chats for the past year. The first one was on LO’s birthday. About 3 weeks ago, I asked if I could call LO for LO’s upcoming birthday. LO welcomed this idea.
The trouble is I discovered the name for what I feel for LO in the past week: limerence. Since we met virtually more than 20 years ago as teenagers, my main feeling toward LO is “I want you to want me!” I think LO is very special for many reasons, but mostly I relish the way I feel when I have LO’s attention… I have told LO this.
I am married but I have a fantasy that one day LO and I will at least date… I love my spouse but if my spouse ever left me, I thought LO would be my first choice for a 2nd marriage. I rationalized this by thinking I am sure other married people know who they’d pick next if their marriage ended… But then I feel guilty for having a fantasy about that. I also think that if something happened to my spouse, I would resent the fact that I’d had this fantasy and not be able to live it even if I had the opportunity.
LO is currently and usually single, never married. As I lean toward NC, I keep reminding myself, our connection has always been virtual: LO has never met me in person on purpose – only by accident when we lived in the same town 20+ years ago. This is the truth about our “friendship” that I have started to remind myself, as a way to reduce the positive feelings that wash over me every time I get a text from LO.
So, do I just go NC, cold turkey? or do I call to wish LO a happy birthday, but stop texting? Real friends call or text on birthdays… Am I bargaining already?
I think we both know something is wrong these days but I would not be surprised to get a text from LO any day… LO often initiates. What is LO getting out of this? Should I care?
Other people can probably provide better answers for you. I am no longer married, and I think most of the folks here are either married or involved in long-term relationships.
How is your relationship with LO affecting your marriage? Do you want the LE to stop?
Since you already committed to the birthday call, I would follow through with it and try to keep it as short as possible.
When I was married, I never had anyone picked out as a back-up partner, so I am scratching my head on that one.
I spend multiple evenings texting with LO, even on weekends, even when my SO is 12 feet away. SO has noticed me smiling a lot when I text with LO, though I think that was only once… I found the term limerence after searching for more info about one-sided emotional affairs. I sometimes lose a night of sleep after texting with LO from the guilt I feel.
Earlier this year, I shared with LO that when we meet in person again (6 hour flight away, but a possible reason for LO to be in my town next year), I thought I would feel a very strong attraction. I was very scared that this disclosure would kill the fantasy I had by scaring LO away from the virtual “friendship” we had redeveloped since COVID (email first, text for the past year). LO was flattered but did not book a flight to make it happen sooner. (A part of me wanted that.) LO said I must be stressed from my career (true). We got past it and stayed in touch, even bonding more over real life hobbies than we had before. But the limerence fantasy keeps coming up in my mind, and each time I approach the topic of my attraction without sharing what I really want (and I tell myself that what I want is an opportunity to love LO later), I feel the risk of losing LO (both now as a friend and one day, maybe more) AND the guilt from betraying SO now.
This LE has been a big distraction for me, particularly for the past 4 months. I lose sleep over LO, and LO is never far from my thoughts. I am aware now that my feelings are not love, even for a friend.
H. Sapiens,
Well done for finding this site, and welcome. You’re early on in your voyage of discovery. Have a good read of everything. I found the book “Smitten” enormously helpful and devoured it in a few days. Hopefully you’ll find the answers you need and some camaraderie here. Good luck.
I am 6 days NC today. Last week I asked if LO’s other married friends text with LO for hours on weekends. I consider that my warning to LO that something was wrong. The conversation ended awkwardly. I lost 2 nights of sleep.
I can’t do this anymore. My desire to disclose and get a response from LO has gotten too strong. I came here. I read NC is the cure.
Today the prospect of not talking to LO again feels like a light that was shining on me has gone out. I have been in a fog all day. I feel a bit empty. It’s that moment when you wonder which is worse: the sickness or the cure.
I will be starting to meet with a therapist next week. If someone here would wish me perseverance (not luck), I’d really appreciate it.
H. Sapiens,
Sending you all the strength in the world. It will get easier and better, I promise. You can hold your head up high and know that you’re doing the right thing, even if those closest to you don’t know it. You will heal, and once you’re in the process of healing, you will look back and realise how much healing you needed. The sickness makes you think you need the sickness, but you don’t. The fog will clear and the colour will return to your life.
Hello HS,
You have kind of done disclosure-lite anyway. Your first disclosure (that if you met LO, you’d feel strong attraction) makes the more sense to me of the two. I would draw on all inner strength you have to leave it at that, and not muddy the waters more, at lesst until you can talk it through with your therapist.
The drawbacks with making a full disclosure are:
1. Actions have consequences. Once you do it, you can never undo it. What is currently in your head becomes ‘out there in the world’ and what happens with that then can’t be predicted
2. You don’t know if LO will give you a truthful response. She knows that you have an SO, and that any positive response she gives equals “parking her tanks on your SO’s lawn”. Many people don’t want to be seen as ‘that person’ so wouldn’t tell the truth.
3. A question for you – what response would be ‘a good response’, and why? My conclusion when I was at the point you are was ‘nothing would be’.
If you go back through the LwL archives you will see a post called ‘when not to disclose’ – it was one of the most powerful on here for me, worth a read.
Wishing you strength.
H. Sapiens, how are you doing now?
Thanks for checking in. Yesterday was better during the day. I got to spend most of the day with my eldest child. It was an active day and I was truly present.
At night, my time with SO was not great. We had a plumbing emergency and then had to plan for repairs today while also getting through a big day at work (for me). It was all too easy to start craving contact from LO and escaping to the fantasy in my head about the big adventure I could have with LO. There was no new contact but both days I went through some old email and texts. I wonder if I need to delete them. Or if that would enable false memories.
Well done for noticing your feelings in relation to what’s going on. I think a similarity between addiction and limerence is that it masks our feelings and we’re less aware of normal emotions. I hope you start to understand your emotions as the fog lifts.
You mentioned that your time with SO wasn’t great. Is this a pattern, or are things usually good with her? Do you need to carve more quality time? I was very aware that we needed to do this, but it took a long time to achieve. I thought that he was fine and my brain was the problem, but it turned out that he had (different) problems of his own to solve, and we’re both now more present for each other.
I don’t know whether deleting past messages would make a difference. Personally I haven’t deleted anything or blocked anything. Maybe I should have done, I don’t know, but I’ve not gone NC either (it’s not really possible in my case). But I don’t read through past messages, or look at pictures, or browse his social media any more. Maybe if you’re finding it too hard to stop yourself then you need to remove the temptation.
I have come a long way and things are much better in the rest of my life so any thoughts of this other man are just a habit to change. I still notice him popping into my brain far too frequently, but when it happens I acknowledge that it’s happened and think of other things instead. It is definitely getting easier.
There are definitely issues in my relationship with SO that I’ll need to talk about with my therapist.
That said, I know that SO has been a better partner for me than LO could have been. SO and I are matched in our sense of adventure, desire to try new things, explore new places, etc. Even if we only get to really connect at that level when we go on holiday or plan a special outing, we do so.
LO is a workaholic who lives in a 10-km radius (if that). My fantasy of a later life big adventure with LO depends on me being the heroic figure who leads LO to a more exciting lifestyle. An absurd daydream that sat dormant for 15 years and needs to get lost again.
Not long after SO and I got married, LO reached out. We had been out of touch for about 5 years. I replied in a way that suggested we do business together. LO disappeared again. Though I noticed, I did not miss LO.
Then LO popped up again about 5 years ago. And this time it took hold of me. I thought “LO is lonely,” and I wanted to fill the gap. LO sometimes talks (texts) to me as though LO is familiar with limerence…
I am NC day 8 now. I may need to call LO just to say happy birthday next week. But I will commit to being done with text chats.
Knowing at an intellectual level that SO is the one for you and LO is just a distraction is a big help. Understanding more about the brain mechanisms behind it all really helped me. Keep up the good work. You can do this.
Thanks for your kindness and encouragement. Truly appreciated.
I’m curious about how you make your cloud. I’m going to try that. Then I need to go live purposefully for the day/week.
I had a LC victory, so to speak. LO contacted me twice, I made two brief polite replies. It did not escalate to a chat. I still lost half a night of sleep after sleeping well 4 nights. Not sure if they are directly connected as there were other factors keeping me awake. I plan to continue NC by not initiating contact and not replying at night. If needed to be polite, a 👍 and have a good weekend. If asked why, I can point to whatever is making me busy in real life, briefly, but I don’t any explanation to LO. <- A truth to remember
To H.:
I wish you all the perseverance in the world. I too am conflicted regarding NC, and go back and forth. I don’t have the same issues as you do with being married, so probably the pain is a bit different. LO knows how I feel about him, and is fine with it, but I am still in agony because he does not cherish me the way I wish he did.
I am constantly starting over with NC and failing repeatedly.
There are a number of people here who can give you better encouragement than I can. I have not been successful at NC, so am hardly in a position to give you advice.
Please allow me to introduce myself. I am a married male in his early sixties, and retired just over a year ago, but was recently re-hired on a part-time basis by the same organization. Here is my problem: I have been limerant for a young woman barely past her twenties who was previously an intern (only during summers) at the same organization, but started full time just a few weeks ago.
Some background: I have had several LE’s since my teenage years, and much to my dismay, this has continued into my 22 year marriage. During the past five years, I was doing quite a bit better than in the past, without an all-consuming limerance episode.
That changed two summers ago, when the intern joined our organization. She was immediately very friendly towards me, as in asking direct, non-work related questions about myself, and I reciprocated, but was wary of any appearance of impropriety. I did not, for example, ask her out to lunch or elsewhere, or take excessive amounts of her time, but she was always receptive and always gave me her undivided attention. She was not quite an LO yet, but I found her very attractive, and definitely felt the glimmer. Quite frankly, I wondered why I didn’t met her 40 years ago, 20 years before she was even born! On the day she left, I asked for her contact information, which she gladly gave. However, in the next year, neither one of use actually contacted her.
The following summer (last year), when she returned as an intern, our friendship revived and quickly became deeper. I felt she was always very kind and thoughtful, remembering to thank me for small acts. I also realized, through her linked-in page, that she was an academic superstar — think multiple valedictorian at elite institutions, numerous awards, etc. She was also very humble, a combination you rarely see. I truly thought she’s a once in a generation phenomenon — as a student, a researcher, and in my fantasies, which I desparately tried to suppress, as a partner (I can’t even say the word lover). By the way, throughout all of this, my boss encouraged me to be her mentor. By this point, the glimmer had turned into full blown limerance.
The culmination came at my retirement ceremony last June. She spoke towards the end, and announced to all in attendance that I made her feel very welcome. When it came time for photographs, she boldly asked for (and got) an individual shot with me, not group shot. Only a few others got individual shots, and they were all very senior people. That was when I became totally smitten.
A few days later, as I was driving away for the last time, I felt an immense sadness. The thought I may never see her again was too much to bear.
Becoming aware of my quickly worsening mentaI state, I found a therapist just over a month later. She was very empathetic about my condition, and helped me to overcome my shame, and also helped me to work on my marriage with my wife, who I very much love, and who adores me in return.
Over the next several months, as I started to enjoy my retirement and my limerance gradually faded, I made the possibly fateful decison to break no contact, by sending her a brief, totally innocent email. She responded immediately, and we replied back and forth for a week. Her emails were beautifully worded. In fact, I read one to my therapist, who is also a professor of psychology at an elite institution. She said that her writing was better than ninety percent of her students, which is all the more remarkable because she is in a STEM field, not liberal arts. In any case, my LO, who was a graduate student researcher at the time, was about to take an international journey. In my last email, I said “send pictures”.
She never did, and I was overcome with anxiety for the next several weeks. This was the second cycle of euphoria and despair. Once again ther was a slow, difficult path to recovery. I was finally on my way to accepting no contact and uncertainty.
The third, and possibly worst, cycle started last month. By this time, I had returned to the same organization on a part-time basis, and I have almost full telework, so I do not have a regular desk.
On a fateful day two weeks ago, when I was on site, I asked for a desk. I walked up there, and standing right next to me was the intern, now hired as a full-time employee. We talked for an hour without a break. I was completely mesmerized, and she appeared to be also. It felt like the return of long lost friends (imaginary lovers?). It was the most euphoric I’ve felt in decades.
However, a few things nagged me. Did I really want to renege on my vow to myself regarding no contact? How about low contact? What about my obligations to her as her (former?) mentor? Do I even have any obligations to her, or am I just bargaining? A renewed, deep sense of sadness has set in, which even my wife has noticed. I cannot bring myself to tell her why.
I am now determined to make changes in my life — my social connections, my sense of purpose, my marriage. I am also severely conflicted. So this is how things stand.
Thanks for reading. This site, which I came across two months ago, is absolutely wonderful. I look forward to your replies.
I read your post. I sympathize. Unlike you, my LO is a virtual friend. When I learned that no contact is the way to extinguish my limerence fantasy, I felt quite depressed about it at first. I think I have made progress.
For you, maybe you need to go back to virtual work for your employer. Did you go back because you need the work or because you wanted to see your LO again? Do you really need to be on site?
Are you just bored at home? While on holiday, I met a retiree who started a completely different career that is less lucrative but more active and connected to a hobby (cycling, actually). Is that an option for you? Could something like that be rewarding to you?
Dear * Sapiens,
Thank you for your reply and questions.
As to going back to virtual work, I need to have a balance between that and onsite. I find that once-a-week onsite gives me a great opportunity to connect with colleagues, engage in spirited discussions, as well as find more networking opportuniities than I would otherwise. I had being doing this before I had any sense that LO would re-appear. In fact, since she re-appeared two weeks ago, I skipped be onsite the past week.
Thanks for the suggestion on hobbies; I am indeed working on expanding my interests in a way that also involves social contacts, something I am sorely lacking at present. Ironically, the two components of my name, cat and cyclist, expose my life-long hobbies. But due to certain medical conditions, I must practice cycling alone, because I cannot keep up with the pace of a typical recreational cyclist.
Wish you the best on your progress.
The retiree I met was a clerk in a rental shop in the mountains. He had truly retired from a career in corporate law. I asked him why he did this new job. He said he was happy that he’d retired from a big city to this mountain range, but that he could not stand being at home all the time. He was passionate about a certain type of trail, and he could focus on his passion at this shop and chat with fellow enthusiasts.
May I ask why you retired in the first place? It sounds like you still feel deeply connected to the employer even without the LO.
I’m feeling 🐑ish. No one likes my 🦍. I think of myself as a big, lumbering ape sometimes. But I’ll just go by Sapiens.
Good to see you again, ☁️
🦍
Chill for a braeth Sapiens. I, for one, like your 🦍
Keep talking to us – you seem to have been doing well this week.
🎩🚜 How should I be thinking of your name?
Are you “Top Hat Tractor” or “Gentleman Farmer”?
Or something completely different?
These comments are a pleasant distraction from LO and responsibilities…
S🦍piens,
My usual posting name on here is LaR, though I sometimes use variations on the hat, tractor (most usually) and corn. I am not suggesting you actually invest your time doing this … but buried in the 2024 LwL coffeehouses is the story of how LaR was ‘given’ 🎩🚜🌽 by members of this community.
Several of us do find that the emojis can lighten the mood of what is basically quite an energy-zapping and repetitive core topic that we discuss … so I’m glad to see you’ve acquired a symbol.
You also seem to have had good insights and be taking purposeful action on your LE 👍
Dear Catcyclist,
Welcome to the site. You have certainly had a lot going on and thank goodness things seem not to have gotten too out of control.
Your LO is very young and probably sees you as a father figure. Thats harsh to hear, I imagine, but is almost certainly true and you can use it to steel your resolve.
As someone wise said on here last week (👋☁️), knowing rationally that SO is the better match for you, will also help you move away from the fantasy.
If you scroll through this site you will see many posters come to see limerance as a escape into fantasy and away from dealing with life stuff or personal stuff.
Perhaps the prospect of retirement has had an impact on you, it could be that you’ve measured your self-worth through work achievements and relationships (as is common in academic and many other professional fields).
In your comment, one thing struck me, you said “I am also severely conflicted.” Maybe having a think about why you feel conflicted might help to sort through which thoughts are bargaining to keep LO in your life and which are other conflicts (family, etc)? You are seeing a therapist, one who seems to “get” limerance. This is hugely in your favour. H.sapiens comment about maintaining NC even though it feels hard and depressing is really worth considering, eg via choosing teleworking rather than in person working.
We have all been there and know its hard. We are here to talk it through if you need us.
Dear Bewitched,
Thank you for your pearls of wisdom, in your reply and in your other posts. I agree with most of what you said.
My rational mind has been aware from nearly the beginning about my being a father figure in LO’s eyes. That’s not so harsh, just a dose of reality. In fact, initially she struck me as a precocious but earnest child. The other feelings started to creep in more gradually.
Retirement, and a denial of my aging mind and body, have undoubtedly created a longing for the past, back to my undergraduate and grad school days, when I also failed at love and experienced my most painful limerance experience. In fact, in certain ways the current LO holds parallels to my LO nearly four decades ago.
I am indeed severely conflicted as to whether to go no or minimal contact (which is probably the more rational choice) or whether if, against all odds, an innocent, friendly, mentorish relationship can be maintained, even if it leads to more pain in the short run. Like I said, she’s a once-in-a-generation person. Thus, everytime I consider the prospect of NC, forever, I start to experience profound grief, on par with the death of major figures in my life. On the other hand, maybe THAT’s the story I need to stop telling myself.
My therapist is wonderful, and on net is the best I’ve ever had, and she’s certainly aware of the concept of limerance; indeed, I recall that her thesis was on how couples initiate relationships. However, she had not heard of Dorothy Tennov, and just this week I sent her some useful links about her. We’ll see what she thinks when I meet her again in a few days.
As to going back to virtual work, I need to have a balance between that and onsite. I find that being onsite once a week gives me a great opportunity to connect with colleagues, engage in spirited discussions, as well as find more networking opportuniities than I would otherwise. I had being doing this before I had any sense that LO would re-appear. In fact, since she re-appeared two weeks ago, I have skipped being onsite more frequently. My therapist thinks that may be an avoidance strategy, and perhaps I need some sort of exposure therapy. We’ll see.
As Ape Sapiens asked, why did I retire in the first place if I like the work? Basically, to do it on my own terms — avoid the 3 hour roundtrip commute, and telework instead, get more time to visit my aging mother, and deal with my own health issues, including unrelenting insomnia. The current plan is to mainly telework, being onsite only about once every week or two.
Thanks again, Bewitched; I hope to continue this discussion.
After “retirement”, after taking a seen month break, I switched to part-time work which allows mostly telework, which I could not do pre-retirement.
Hi CatCyclist and a warm welcome,
“What about my obligations to her as her (former?) mentor? Do I even have any obligations to her, or am I just bargaining?”
I’d say you have no obligations and that you’re right to suspect that thinking you do equals bargaining. You retired – if she still needed mentoring, the company will have put someone else in place. Your work there is done, and done well.
I agree with Bewitched that she sees you as a father figure. How is this for a way that you can frame it for yourself in your head, and hopefully learn to live in peace with … you did a great job as her mentor and she clearly appreciates and thinks highly of it and you. You never stepped over lines (only in your head, not in the world). This young woman who you’ve found so enlivening likes and respects you for all that. If you ever did step over any lines in future, that would throw her a loop, cause her to question all she ever thought she knew about you – and perhaps question what your motives were all along.
In short – you have a good ‘win’ here already – leave that be.
I do fully understand from your description of her personality, why you found her attractive. I am glad for you that you’ve had the strength not to act on it or assume she had feelings in return.
Hi LaR,
This is so beautifully framed, and thank you so much for your compliments.
You are correct, I do not “assume” anything about her feelings, but I do wonder … and that is a big part of my rumination. Now, the big question is how to stop that! Indeed, I’ve learnt that rumination, in one way or another, is a big part of our lives!
Thanks again for your sage advice; I will keep returning to this to maintain my resolve.
CatCyclist,
No worries!
“that is a big part of my rumination. Now, the big question is how to stop that!”
You want to work to get to the point where you really believe, at a visceral level, that it really doesn’t matter if she has any feelings in return or not, and you know that no good outcome is possible from making an attempt to find out. Some people here seem to settle on a story that maybe the LO did have feelings, some (like me) a story that we confuseď friendship signals from the LO. Either way, what the two have in common is the futility of trying to know.
It then becomes a story not about the LO, but one of managing your own emotions about the LE- ‘being OK with uncertainty’ as DrL would put it – and eventually digging deeper for why it happened.
I know this was the destination I had in mind, but not quite the steps I took to reach it. I can write more about what I did at various stages when ruminations popped into my head if it would be useful (at times these ruminations were almost permanent). But others may have better advice on that side than me.
CatCyclist
Welcome to the forum. I found your story charming and bittersweet. I can easily identify with your feelings of becoming smitten and conflicted with how delightful your LO seems to be. A smart young Woman who is so kind and thoughtful. Always receptive and well-meaning. It must be almost heavenly having someone like her to work around and talk with. I can understand how euphoric that must feel to you. I think I also get why so much sadness creeps in now and then too. I’ve been there. Although getting to that sad place much differently than you have. In limerence, never ending sadness seems to be the worst part of it. For me it has at least.
I have to agree with the others who have posted here, that you seem to be a Father figure to this Woman. I suppose I totally get how you desire so much more though because of this. That has to be soul crushing. You have my sympathy. That must be so hard.
I’ve cried my eyes out and then some over a younger Co-Worker (24 years younger) who I feel completely beguiled me. I went into a terrible depression over her and all the while, the entire LE was all in my head. While she is a real person and still a Co-Worker to me, our positions within the Company have changed over the last few years. So I rarely see her anymore. She’s also an office worker and I work on the plant floor, which also keeps us almost in different zip codes these days. My story has been posted throughout the forum over the years, but I’m still around here because she’s still not entirely out of my head and I like the camaraderie this forum affords. There are good people here who have been very helpful to me.
You don’t mention it, but whatever you do, do not ever disclose your feelings to this Woman. What you and her have seems to be really well-meaning, innocent and free of any bad intent. A disclosure will only make things awkward. I’m sure you don’t want to do that. I also don’t believe you reneged on any NC effort either. You told yourself she was out of your life while briefly being down about the joy she brought you. Then she miraculously stays in touch with you by email and ultimately comes back and secures a full time position within the company.
At least now perhaps you should work on a proper closure to the LE, if this is going to cause you pain and heartache. At least bringing it to LC and perhaps maintaining a modicum of friendship. If you can handle it. You seem to already have in mind outlets to get you there and the teleworking should help too. I wish you luck on fixing what ever you need to do in your marriage. Divorce absolutely sucks.
I also get how the denial of aging will cause you to long for your younger days. It’s like you totally see yourself as a twenty-something, bantering about with another young twenty-something aged female and life can’t seem to get any better when she’s around. In a lot of ways, I think I sometimes looked at my LO like she was the make up person I could have to replace my Wife. (I’ve been divorced since 2011) LO was 26 when she came to the Company. 27 when the glimmer hit me. My Wife was 27 when we married. So I totally understand what you mean when you mention parallels.
MJ,
It’s great to come across a kindred spirit.
Before I came across this site, I used to feel so alone with a dark, shameful secret. After all these replies, not as much.
Thank-you for the encouragement.
Welcome CatCyclist and hello Bewitched and Sapiens.
Sapiens, I hope you’re doing ok. Well done on your NC achievements. I hope you’re feeling proud, even if it’s early days for feeling free of the shackles.
Thank you for the namecheck (cloudcheck?) Bewitched. The next thing you mention in your post “If you scroll through this site you will see many posters come to see limerence as a escape into fantasy and away from dealing with life stuff or personal stuff.” is also very true for me. I am purposeful in my career but life events prevented me from pursuing it, so I was unhappy and escaped into fantasy. At the same time, it turns out that my husband was also using unhealthy coping strategies and I can see the parallels between this and my limerence.
CatCyclist, I’m afraid I do agree with Bewitched about you being a father figure to your LO. I know this must be hard to hear. I would venture that this is why she is able to be her authentic self with you and why you get on so well, and this has contributed to you falling in limerence. I hope you are able to spend time exploring all the excellent resources here. I discovered this site in April, and I read Smitten in a few days and the clarity it brought was a huge relief. I have made tons of progress since then. There is tons of food for thought here so I hope it helps you navigate your way through this. Hurrah for Dr L!
I’m doing ok at the moment, although I find the whole “no contact” or even “limited contact” thing difficult to navigate in my position. The other day in my (encrpyted) diary file I wrote a list of all the possible circumstances our paths cross in day-to-day life, and whether they are in my control, and what I can do to reduce contact. The trouble is, although I see him maybe once every week or two on average, it’s unpredictable when or in which context, and very few of those contexts can be avoided. I can make conversations shorter by pretending to be in a hurry, but the amount that is in my power to reduce without arousing suspicion is pretty minimal. If he messages me I send one reply but don’t turn it into a conversation – but I already did that anyway. So then I worry that my limerent brain is finding the fact that I can’t go NC a little too convenient, and I see Dr L’s next blog post about “Integrity” and worry that I’m not doing enough. So then begins the cycle of guilt and wracking my brains to figure out what else I can do.
Things are loads better than they were, due to a combination of finding this site, understanding myself and keeping up the deprogramming strategies, but also improvements in my marriage and life generally. I just hope that’s all enough without being able to go No Contact. Time will tell.
Thanks for your comments, this adds to my understanding of the situation.
BTW, how do you pronounce your name? 😉
Cloud, I guess. I wonder whether it’s approaching time to change my name again. I’m careful not to share much information about my situation because I’m afraid of being found out. Whenever I post I have to check back a few minutes later to make sure I put “☁️” and not my actual name or email address in the “name” field, and I reread all my posts several times for identifying details. The fact that once submitted, our posts are available for anyone in the world to read, forever, with no option to edit or delete, focuses ones mind.
☁️,
I know that ‘out there for all the world to read forever’ side is scary. I used to worry about this a lot and obscure a lot of detail. At the general level you share, I honestly don’t think you need to worry you’ll be identifiable, or need to keep changing name. Like DrL said somewhere once – our situations aren’t as rare as we might think … anything you have ever shared could apply to many many people.
But yeah … how mortifying would it be to actually put the email address in the wrong field?! OMG.
My phone ‘suggests’ the email address in the correct field but not the wrong field, and also turns the correct box light blue when I populate it, which is good extra insurance.
Stay vigilant!!
Cloud,
It sure does focus the mind! And I thought it was just me and my self-diagnosed OCD!
Cloud,
I think you have tons of integrity. Hope you can be kind to yourself and ease of on the guilt. Remember, we’re not aiming for perfection!
I am still struggling with self-loathing. My resolve to maintain NC has completely evaporated. I did not expect this. I keep re-watching Dr. L’s videos and re-reading the articles, trying to rouse my sleeping resolve, but so far I am having no success.
I was hoping that LO would move in September, but he tells me that he can’t move until his current house sells. Since his house is very weird, I don’t expect it to sell for quite some time. Since I seem to have no willpower, I was hoping he’d move and take the onus off of me, but that is not happening.
I can’t believe I lost all the ground I thought I had gained.
Norma, it seems that both you and I, as well as many (most?) members of this of this community, are having trouble maintaining NC.
But please try not to succumb to self-loathing.
You have not lost all ground.
To CatCyclist:
Thank you so much for saying that. You have no idea what your kind words mean to me.
“I managed okay before LO and I will manage again after LO.” You said the other day. It’s made me think a lot about the strange thing that’s limerence. Is it a manifestation of other problems in our life, or is it a discrete problem in its own right? The latter, I think, but it’s certainly influenced by other stuff going on. And we have to treat it as a problem in its own right.
It’s natural that you’re finding it hard now that the plan has changed. I don’t think you’ve lost all the ground, because you have learnt a lot and you’ve got the tools to figure out what to do next. You just need to come up with a plan B, that’s all.
I don’t quite get why it’s got to the stage of self-loathing. You’ve not done anything wrong.
To Miss Cloud:
The reason it’s gotten to self-loathing is this. I read other posters’ descriptions of their LOs, and many of them are very engaging, friendly, lively and helpful. If they became absent from the Limerent person’s life, it would leave a huge void.
My LO is none of those things. He is just gorgeous with a crazy house.
He does little to nothing to encourage my interest, but yet I continue to be nuts about him, month after month.
He is an irritable flake who rarely follows through on anything, and still has a painting I gave him for repair almost 2-1/2 years ago. Normally I would be very annoyed, but it doesn’t much bother me, because of the way I feel about him.
If I weren’t limerent for him, I would consider him to be a very inadequate, almost undesirable, neighbor and would drop him.
So when I look at him objectively as a friend, I find him severely lacking in all areas.
The fact that I am salivating over him as I sit here writing this is why I have so much self-loathing.
P.S.
And when he texts me, I shriek like I did when I was a kid and a Beatles song came on the radio.
I told LO, half of me is 72 and half of me is twelve. It’s true.
When I was having some help from a counsellor (before I discovered limerence) she asked me why I’m attracted to LO.
Now, I like to think of myself as not very shallow and not too swayed by looks. Mainly I’m attracted to intelligence. But the first thing I said was “He’s really hot!” This did not show me in a good light. 😂
Attraction is an odd thing.
To Miss Cloud:
I refer to my LO as “Hot Gay Man Candy.” That’s not too shallow, is it? 😁
He’s brilliant and has a wonderful vocabulary. I am a “word” person and I love it when a person can converse in an interesting way. One time, we got close to an argument about politics and he later apologized for “becoming so impassioned.”
I am a sucker for that kind of stuff.
Before I’d discovered the LWL site, I used to return to this article to make sure I didn’t deviate from my NC path:
https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2025/01/dear-james-literary-crush/681303/
It has a similar theme to a few of my own LE’s, although the current LO’s different in that she has no faults! 😉
To CatCyclist:
Thank you for your comments. You hit the nail on the head with the literary thing. Between his silver tongue, his good looks, and his weird/amazing house, I am a goner.
But his faults are many, and he doesn’t hold up his end of the friendship very well. I don’t feel valued. However, if I DID feel valued, that would make things worse. I’m actually lucky that he has so many short-comings.
If he were more kindly and friendly, I doubt that I would ever be able to extricate myself.
Totally! Why use a dull word when a grandiloquent one will do?
To Miss Cloud:
Sometimes I feel safer with dull words.
Actually I’m with you. While it’s fun talking to people who talk floridly, it’s not who I’m attracted to. My brain puts them into the category of “work people” (I work in the arts). I’ve always preferred geeks.
To Miss Cloud:
I love talking with LO because he keeps me on my toes, vocabulary-wise. I can’t quite keep up with him, but I try.
I am, however, EXTREMELY tired of the word “curated.” Ugh. There’s another word he uses a lot which I dislike but I can’t remember it at the moment.
I think as women we need to beware of men talking confidently. Many of them have the knack of sounding more intelligent than they are by talking confidently. Then suddenly, one day, they start talking about something that’s your area of expertise and you think “hey, he doesn’t know quite as much about this thing as he thinks he does!” and you realise that they’ve been doing this all along.
Now, I’m not saying it’s wrong to be confident. Confidence is good for you and a certain amount of confidence makes someone attractive. But it’s not so good when it makes us feel inadequate in their company.
To Miss Cloud:
I don’t think LO is that self-aware sometimes. One time, I had bought him a small gift, a coffee mug with a picture of a dog that looked exactly like his own dog who had just died. The color scheme was also LO’s favorite, a white background with blue flowers.
We were at Starbuck’s, and he was droning on and on about his rich fancy clients, using lots of big words. The gift was sitting on the table in a bag.
Finally, I said, “I am starting to re-think this gift. I am SO Dollar Store!”
And the look on his face was priceless. He suddenly realized how pompous he had sounded. He looked embarrassed, remorseful, and turned red. Mr. “I’m Not Fancy” opened the gift and loved it.
I wonder whether the pain of limerence is primarily caused by him being unattainable, or by him being unreliable as a friend? Do you have thoughts as to which it is? If he were a better friend to you, would you settle for staying in limerence? I know that you want to turn his minus points into an advantage to help you get over limerence, but they also cause you pain.
To Miss Cloud:
I think the pain is caused by him being unreliable as a friend.
I might try to manage the limerence otherwise. When I see him periodically for short amounts of time, I seem to feel better overall.
It’s not fair to put that kind of pressure on anyone, but I’m not asking him for a lot. But it’s obviously more than he’s willing to give.
I remember several months ago he was going on a business trip to Europe with one of his fancy clients. I asked him to bring me something back. He asked what I wanted. I said, whatever you think is appropriate.
People on this board were critical, saying that if he got me something wonderful, I’d fall in deeper, and if he got me something disappointing, it would hurt too much. More likely, he’d forget and bring nothing.
He ended up bringing me a small box of macarons from Paris, which I hated. First of all, I don’t even LIKE macarons, second, you can get them here, and third, that is the type of thing you could give as a hostess gift to someone you’ve never met. I had wanted him to pick out something a little more personal.
But I was prepared for the disappointment, and it didn’t bother me too much. Compare that story to the one above where I got him a mug in his favorite color scheme with a picture of his dog. I NAILED that gift.
He appears to make little to no effort, and that’s what hurts.
Perhaps not so odd; it does have an evolutionary advantage, after all!
Re: Norma, “Attraction is an odd thing”
Err, Miss Cloud.
On a miss-citation roll today, a bad omen for aspiring literary types!
To CatCyclist:
No harm done!
After not seeing LO for about 3 weeks I had to see him the other day. I kept it to a few minutes and declined the offer to stay for coffee. Of course it was friendly because we are friends, even though I know we can’t be, but we can’t not be either without me explaining why, which obviously I’m not going to do. Limiting contact seems like such a ridiculous token gesture which doesn’t make much difference to how much we actually interact. But it’s necessary and I’m doing the right thing.
I don’t mind finding him attractive when I see him. It’s thinking about him when he’s not there that is the problem. It’s just very hard changing those thought patterns. It is improving; for example, he doesn’t appear in my dreams any more, and my husband does. But it’s an infuriatingly slow process.
☁️,
💪✊️⛅️
🚜🌱🌽
Good work ☁️ and thanks for sharing. Declining an offer to spend more time one-on-one is maintaining boundaries and would show good judgement even if you did not have limerence.
I have not heard from or contacted my LO in 5 days. I sometimes think of how I would explain NC if LO asked me, even though I don’t plan to explain it. But thoughts of LO are coming less often, and they don’t excite me the same way.
To Sapiens:
I am so happy that you’re doing better. The longest I have gone without seeing LO is three weeks. I have done it twice. But then I saw him and I slid backward again.
You say that the thoughts are coming less often, and that’s wonderful. I wish I could do the same.
Well done Sapiens. That sounds like a great step forward, to be thinking less after just 5 days of NC.
I did used to think about how I would explain NC or LC to him. But then I realised that even that was a way of ruminating about him by fantasising conversations. 😂 So now if I find myself imagining that particular conversation, I have to spoil the reward by imagining the same conversation with his wife, who I am also friends with. That kills off the dopamine hit. 😂
Dear ☁️, Sapiens, 🚜
With respect to being friends with LO, if it is of any help, it might be that you get lucky and time takes care of it and you can return to being normal friends. This is possible, I think, especially if certain conditions are met – e.g. you have the potential to already be friends with LO (similar shared interests and outlook, LO is not a narc or sensor, capacity in terms of living or working nearby,…), and, if the limerent has a recovery mindset (not seeking LO, deliberately frustrating your lim-brain fantasising about LO, seeking to deepen other relationships, etc). Also, you give the whole a LOT of time so that feelings cool down on your side.
– It sounds like you have all of these things covered (?) – so I think its just possible that you will return to a normal friendship in time. You might never need to explain NC/LC to anyone, if you maintain your recovery mindset, it just might sort itself out.
You know, I have been at this for almost 6 years and LO and I are inching closer to a normal friendship. While lying awake recently, I tried to conjure up the old euphoric fantasy man and it just fell so flat! I kept getting distracted from my LO fantasy by random mundane thoughts about kids shoes/housework/office work 😆.
It doesn’t mean I don’t think about him and that he doesn’t still have a special place in my mind. But our dynamics have definitely shifted to something warm and attentive without being “nuclear”.
Bewitched,
This is an interesting thing we have in common. My ability and wish to “conjure fantasy LO” disappeared at DoH (had been diminishing even before that) and now I rarely even try.
I am left with a lot of the real (x)LO now. I still quite like her, but it is like dealing with a different, realistic whole person, not a lim-brain projection.
I have a slightly nosy question (not like me!). Did the conjuring part bubble back up at all when you saw xLO face to face? I can find there are still a few brief bubbles if I see too much of her or we slip back to oversharing etc.
You’re ahead of me so I’d be interested to know if all the bubbles have popped!
Dear 🚜,
“I have a slightly nosy question (not like me!). Did the conjuring part bubble back up at all when you saw xLO face to face?”
Not nosey at all 😁👃👀😁!
Yes, it did bubble up again after the f2f. I only see him f2f very rarely and beforehand had sort of still warm feelings, but much dampened down. The f2f changed that, a notch upwards to *definitely* warm feelings plus willing to inch closer towards friends. We both commited to closer working too with renewed/ expanded shared work project commitments in a closer capacity ( before the f2f, I had felt I was going to bring all those to a close). But somehow I ended up going in the opposite direction.
I shouldnt be doling out advice, should I? In my defense, its honestly not intrusive or problematic any longer. More a small occasional mental buzz that is not shared with anyone outside my own brain. I dont see LO or seek him apart from work stuff, which he usually initiates.
My only concern is that it may not be very loyal of me to my SO. But I am so much better than I was. And I think it might be preventing falling prey to any new LOs in my life so there is that plus side?
Any feedback very welcome…
Dearest Bewitched,
I appreciate this could sound enabling if I’m not careful, but I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong where your SO is concerned. What more is it now than work collaboration, really?
Ever since I’ve been reading your posts, you give the impression of managing your LE really responsibly. You’ve been consistent for a long while now about how you feel. You sound measured and in control of it – and not like you’re bargaining.
Let me guess at something – when you were at the stage of thinking you’d cut off work collaboration with him … that was more because it felt the ‘right’ (in LwL terms) thing to do, than because you *really* wanted to?
If you can hold him in good but non intrusive affection, and trust you’ll stay the right side of lines (and I reckon you have hit almost a ‘mastery state’ of that – of ‘letting it sit’), then I would ask you what is one good reason not to hang onto things as they are? How often do we find people to truly hold in affection?
You and he sound fine, B, hold the course (Either that or you’re a great kidder 😆).
Dear 🚜,
Thank you for your reply. I do love your replies – to me and others – they are always so thoughtful. I am not surprised that your friends and colleagues bend your ear all the time. You are a brilliant listener.
“Let me guess at something – when you were at the stage of thinking you’d cut off work collaboration with him … that was more because it felt the ‘right’ (in LwL terms) thing to do, than because you *really* wanted to?”
Actually, I think that it was because I was tipping over into being a bit annoyed by him before the f2f. As you know, one my strategies with him is to assume I am not special and that attention I get is not specific to me. I have become rather good at making this my basic assumption and it works at quelling my validation-seeking from him.
The problem is that when I see him in person, I realise that he does treat me specially and then that warms up my feelings again. Not very helpful but its inevitable, I suppose. Do you remember the convo you had with @Marcia about your behaviour around your (x)LO? Its kindof similar to that. Throw in the odd hug and offered arm / coat / etc and you can see what I mean (I did also meet his eye a few times in a meaningful way). Its what I do with this information that has died-down a lot, I dont over-react to that scenario, any longer, just enjoy it.
” then I would ask you what is one good reason not to hang onto things as they are? How often do we find people to truly hold in affection? ”
For now, no harm I guess. When I am not maligning him to quell any limerent urges, I recognise that I like his personality. And we have work that we have promised to do together and so we are regularly in contact at least for the next few years. I guess that I just need to stay aware of pitfalls (overly negative as well as positive) and try to maintain balance. I am usually pretty okay at that, though I suspect not as good as you, 🚜!!
I am interested in talking this topic out with others, like yourself, who can’t do NC for whatever reason, but who notice that the dynamics of their LE may be changing over time. You referred to your LO as (x)LO, which indicates that you are n a good place, although striving perhaps to not tip over into negativity? (I am just guessing here).
🧹Bx🧹
Hi Bewitched,
Thank you kindly for your comments! I do try with my 👂👂 …
I think the ‘maligning them to quell’ is a phase that almost all of us non-NC brigade have necessarily passed through, to get to somewhere else – I’ll get back to this. You have been able to identify his annoying traits for quite a while, but also sometimes just see those as examples of those somewhat endearing human foibles that we all have. I always have food around my face, for example, but those who like me just find that amusing (I remember a not so comfortable encounter with a prim and proper ex boss about it, though).
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean about his behaviours around you. I didn’t actually know you were on the ‘I’m not special’ narrative – I thought you were more like ‘I likely am special, but this is futile’.
On your question of those of us whose LE dynamics change for the better over time, it will be nice if others chip in.
For me, it is like you captured when you said: “its what I do with this information that has died-down a lot”. For me it is much the same – I just don’t react as much, internally or externally. I’ve built resistance to it, though whether through resilience or boredom I’m unsure! The information is much the same, the processing of it is different.
I don’t know with the whole LO/xLO label thing. Snow has said that we can only really call them xLO when we feel ‘indifference’. I don’t feel indifferent to MFF – I doubt I ever will. I don’t even feel indifferent to my NC LO of 25 years ago!
And I don’t think even wild horses could make me malign MFF long term. I had a phase of trying to ‘fake myself’ on that. I think it was needed to get me where I now am, but it also made me dreadfully unhappy, tired, ‘beige’ almost to a point of dysfunction. When I let it lift a bit, I felt better, but not limerent like before, just glad to be getting on better again (we need to, for work’s sake).
I backslid into unhealthy rumination a while back, when I witnessed her getting a lot of other men’s attention, but I nipped that in the bud quite fast.
I’m doing much better but not fully out the woods. I always wanted to come through it in a way that wasn’t demonisation or NC. She does not deserve it and I can’t punk myself into pretending she does.
I suspect similar might apply to your case?
Lx
🐝 🧙♀️ & 🎩 🌽,
The mindset — “I am not special”but ordinary, is the most logical, healthy, and wise in all human interactions!
Bewitched,
Oh I really hope it’s possible to reach a place of normal friendship. I do have plenty of male friends, some of whom I’ve been attracted to in the past, and current LO is the only one who is a problem.
The two possible outcomes are remaining friends but getting myself out of limerence, without him having noticed that I went through a period of attempting to avoid him, and gradually drifting apart without him realising why. When I think about the latter I feel really sad and it makes my limerent brain want to cling on more. When I think about the former I worry that it’s my limerent brain kidding me.
Losing contact altogether would be impossible given our proximity and connections.
So right now try not think too much about the eventual outcome because it encourages rumination! I just need to deal with the here and now.
Dear ☁️,
I would be optimistic because I think that, as long as you have a recovery mindset, time can do the trick.
Also, you really ought not to beat yourself up, as you are doing everything you can and, from what you’ve described, you are acting with integrity.
I do think that neutrally noticing an unhelpful thought without beating your self up about it might shorten the recovery. I hope so 😊!
Bx
“I do have plenty of male friends, some of whom I’ve been attracted to in the past, and current LO is the only one who is a problem.”
I tend to find I feel more comfortable talking/interacting with women than I do men. (You can you see that in my posting here lol) There are exceptions, of course, but women I seem more comfortable with. But I have never had attachments or issues with any of my female companions until I met LO. And I really wonder how far off the rails I would have let it get if she didn’t leave the job when she did. But often the occasional ruminations I have are often mourning what a healthy relationship I might have had with her without limerence. Especially if she had not left the job. You seem to be trying to salvage that healthy side of you and his’ relationship and that is admirable. Keep on fighting.
Dear Bewitched and Adam,
Thank you. Yes, I do think I have a recovery mindset. The other cause for optimism is that there were various things wrong with life and marriage when the LE started, and these are now resolved. I think if I met him for the first time now I’d find him attractive but not get obsessed with him. The continued interest is just thought habits in my brain that take a long time to rewire.
To Miss Cloud:
I admire your willpower. I would never be able to do that.
🚜🌱🌽
❤️👍
☁️
I’m heading into 9 months of NC with LO and I’m really struggling lately. He’s been on my mind frequently in the last few weeks and the desire to contact him and hear his voice is strong. I won’t do it because he hurt me greatly with some of his actions the last time I had contact with him. But I’m grieving the loss of him and the friendship I thought we had. I don’t know why it’s hitting so hard right now.
Lost Girl,
Is something unpleasant or dreadful happening in your life presently?
Please continue grieving the loss, stay in the track of NC, stare at your hands and keep asking why they’re “itchy”; otherwise, you’d feel worse again…
❄️
Nothing dreadful in life other than the normal job stresses. I think I’m just restless in life in general and feeling a little sad lately.
I wish I could say it was better for me. But recently there was a chance LO would come back to the job. It’s been over 3 years since she left. The good news is the rumination didn’t last long. While she was certainly more than qualified to do her job again, another young lady was hired instead. It was at first disappointing but it didn’t take long to come to realization it would probably have been bad for me. Bad enough I might have had to change jobs. Which I don’t want to, because of the most part, I like my job.
Stay strong Lost Girl. We are all here to support you.
Adam,
Thank you for the support. LO has been gone from my work place for 3 years as well but we kept in touch. I’m very thankful I don’t have to see him around while being NC because then NC would not be possible.
Lost Girl ,
Nice to hear from you again, or not so nice due to the reason why.
I agree with Snow, what is happening for you in your life that may be triggering this ? Are you worrying or fearful about something ?
Or it could be the same time of year that something significant happened a year ago with your LO ? or even two or three years ago. A memory at a certain time of year can be a trigger too.
Imho
Nothing in particular is going on although looking back I do seem to get maudlin about him this time of year. Not sure why. Things come up daily that I would in the past have shared with him, but usually it’s a fleeting thought that I’d like to tell him. Lately it’s a constant intrusive thought that says call him.
Lost Girl,
you posted here this time of year 2 years ago. I only know this because I arrived at LwL the same time.
Your comments encouraged me to share my situation. And a year ago, the same time of year I think he shared some photos with you after a long period of NC that triggered you.
Maybe there are some subconscious associations with this time of year that makes you maudlin.
Maybe it is good to acknowledge this ( if so ) so you can answer the question of ‘why now ‘ let it pass and move on.
Hope this helps even if my theory is not on point.
“I’m grieving the loss of him and the friendship I thought we had. I don’t know why it’s hitting so hard right now.”
Probably because you and him did share something. It hurts because you miss his company and things might have actually been good when they were good. Sometimes I think we look back at things and then wonder if things were truly as bad as they were, when they initially happened. Everyone’s situation is different. Your mind is only trying to make you happy.
I too had a falling out my with Lady Friend from work. We had a disagreement and her negative words over it hit me harder than I wanted them to. Neither of us hate each other but we went from being what I thought were good friends to basically strangers now. Lately I’ve considered re-connecting and catching up again, but I keep resisting the urge. I miss her but I’m trying to respect her space.
MJ
I do miss him. It’s like a physical presence, a pressure or a tightness, in my chest. Or maybe I’m having a heart attack. 🙂 It also hurts to know that my absence from his life isn’t missed at all. But that’s limerence for you!
I did give in last night and googled him. He’s in a profession that means he has several results. I found a local interview he gave not that long ago and I ended up listening to it just to hear his voice. It eased the tightness in my chest but I felt so disappointed in myself.
LO and I also had some disagreements prior to NC. Then he never reached out to me during a very difficult time in my life when even people I barely knew were offering support. That cemented my decision that NC would be best for me. I’m sorry you experienced such hurt from your friends words.
To Lost Girl:
I have read somewhere–not sure if it’s true–that as we gain distance from relationships, we tend to remember them as being better than they were.
Do you think this is part of what is going on with you? It’s very discouraging to hear that, after nine entire months, you are struggling so much.
I can’t go three weeks without falling apart.
Norma
The good memories are what makes me want to contact him but the hurtful memories are what’s keeping my resolve to maintain NC. I’ve tried NC many times in the past but this is the longest I’ve gone. Like most addicts it takes several attempts before you kick the habit so I’m hoping this time sticks. It’s been over a decade and I’m so very weary of this LE. Good luck on your situation and all any of us can do is keep trying.
To Lost Girl:
It is disheartening to hear that you have been fighting this battle for a decade.
I too use hurtful memories to try to keep away from my LO. He lashes out unexpectedly, and I never see it coming.
I unfortunately succumb to the warm memories after a time and long to make contact again.
Like you said, we just have to keep trying.
A really big turnaround has happened with regard to my current LE, at least in my mind, and probably in reality also. It is TBD whether it will hold. As you may recall, I was mulling how to navigate the NC/LC dillema with my young LO.
The whiplash seems to be from the intense sense of euphoria and closeness I felt, which most probably the LO did as well, when three weeks ago, we met for the first time in a year, to the current state of mild awkwardness and possible avoidance on both of our parts. I am well aware that we limerants are advised to avoid ruminating on conversations and interactions, but the change has been so dramatic that there is no other way to make sense of it. Indeed, I am seeing new aspects of LO’s personality and behavior that I didn’t know existed. Gone is the warm, always welcoming, “happy to see you” behavior. I made a joke in one of my postings that my LO has no imperfections, but I may have spoken just a day too soon! She’s just like the rest of us, a flawed human being!
My best sense is that we both came to the independent realization that the nothing’s going to happen because of the enormous barriers, so it’s better to put an end to a tentative emotional affair before it starts. So maybe this is the best possible outcome.
Overall, I am feeling a mixture of relief and sadness. The sense of relief is because I’ve decided to stop making LO all-important, to try so hard to plan my next interaction, with her. The sadness is pretty obvious; all of the fantasies, even those of a benign mentor-mentee friendship, have come crashing down. Indeed, I wonder if any sort of friendship is even possible, at least in the short term, maybe even long term. Just months ago, we were putting each other on such a pedestal; it is a such a letdown to come back to ground. For a while, I felt special, and she was special to me also. Now we’re just random human beings forced to work barely fifteen feet apart, the literal dimensions of the room. And this is in an organization with over five thousand employees at our location — what an improbable situation!
So, hopefully, this will be the beginning of a turning point in a two-year saga that had totally consumed me with its euphoria and despair cycles. In a few weeks or months, I will have a better idea where things stand. I hope I have not hurt anybody — not LO, not my wife, nor others in my orbit who I may have neglected.
Thank-you for the enormous support all of you on this wonderful site have shown.
To CatCyclist:
I remember when you said LO had no imperfections!
Have you said anything at all to her in the way of disclosing?
Your situation is so much touchier than mine and you have so much more to lose.
Hi Norma,
Not sure that one situation is touchier than another.
You’ve known your LO much longer and appear to have more involvement.
Oh, Catcyclist! I’m sorry to hear about the sudden change in circumstances. It must be a big shock for you. You were obviously already aware that things might have to change, otherwise you wouldn’t be here, but for it to be so sudden, and out of your control and understanding must be very confusing and hurtful.
Are you able to lie low for a while to get used to the new circumstances? It seems to me that you would benefit from avoiding the office for a week to look after yourself.
Dear ☁️,
Thanks for your sympathy.
This is a reminder that we’re never in total control of our lives; the other also has a say!
Dear Catcyclist,
Circumstances changed for you both – she was offered a position, you came back from retirement. Sometimes warm friendly relations are easier to maintain at a distance of more than 15 feet…
Its hard now but its a useful and necessary corrective maybe?
No doubt, “relations” will continue to evolve. You have whiplash at the moment which is also a useful realisation about taking your time and not acting hastily?
Lots of luck to you over the coming days – you are in a dynamic period but it will calm down.
Thank-you!
Hi CatCyclist. A lot of what you said resonates with my LE. My LE saga went on for 3+ years, with its stages of elation and grief. Since the past couple of months, there has been zero contact with her, not even virtual.
This NC has really helped me move along. In my case also, there are extreme barriers, so anyway there was no point pursuing it.
I have moved a bit ahead in my LE than you, and I can assure you that you will feel a lot better. As I may have said before here, my quality of life has really improved. I am generally a lot happier now.
Though my thoughts do go back to LO, I try not to analyse too much, just happy at all the progress that I made.
Finally, I do not fight my thoughts about LO, I just let them come and go, while acknowledging them.
Hope this helps.
I wish you the best.
Hi ABCD,
I appreciate your perspective.
Wish you the best also.
Well, I just got more justification for No Contact. I bumped into LO, as I often do on Thursday nights. I attempted to engage him in conversation, but he rebuffed me.
I did this to myself, I could have made more of an effort to avoid him.
If this were strictly an intellectual exercise, it would be so easy.
Oh no! Why does he do that? Is it when there are lots of people and he wants to flit round and talk to the most “important” ones?
To Miss Cloud:
I don’t think he is intentionally rude, but he may as well be. The effect is the same.
His behavior screams loud and clear that I am a low priority.
Why is it that you often bump into him on Thursday nights? Is there a weekly event in your neighborhood that you both attend?
Is it possible that he was just busy? Sometimes I bump into people and have a 15-minute chat. Other times I must hurry along to an appointment and all I say is hello.
It sounds like he has spent a lot of time with you. He treats you as a neighbor whom he likes but does not adore as you adore him. He responds in a mostly encouraging way to your overtures, including asking him to repair artwork and asking him to bring you a souvenir from Europe.
I don’t mean to be harsh… But you must remember, you are here because you are obsessed with your LO and that means you probably over-interpret everything he does. Not because there is anything wrong with him.
One thing that helped me is accepting that I cannot treat my LO at the same level as an SO. My LO is just an old friend that I got to know as we (and the web) were coming of age. The idea that either my LO or I should treat the other with a level of care on par with a SO, or even a best friend, is a fantasy. It’s only in my mind, not my LO’s mind.
Likewise, your neighbor’s failures to treat you as the most important person in his life (aside from his mother) come from a fantasy in your mind. How can you come down from this fantasy that he should treat you so much better than he does? How can you stop expecting so much from him?
To Sapiens:
Thank you for your comments and for reminding me about the weird inequality in the relationship. I need to be more mindful of that.
Yes, there is something that happens on Thursday nights where I see LO and other neighbors on the next two blocks. If I am feeling strong, I take pains to avoid him.
Hello Sapiens,
Your observation reminds me of what I was like when I was a teenager with obsessive crushes. I would not hide my feelings and I would continue to expect too much of these boys for long after they had made it clear they weren’t interested. There was one in particular who I was infatuated with for three years (which was a long time at the age that I was). He was much nicer to me than I deserved.
As Norma says, it’s a reminder of the strange relationship inequality all of us here experience.
You might try making other plans next Thursday night. Nothing works better to start or keep up NC than changing our own routine so that you do not depend on contact with him for your happiness.
You also can’t depend on an LO to disillusion you with their own behavior… although the more you see them as they really are, the more you are poking holes in your own fantasy.
To Sapiens:
Great idea, but I need to be involved on Thursday nights.
I will have to strengthen my resolve to avoid him.
Hi Norma D,
I do not think you like ‘tough love’ advice ( I dont either by the way ) but here goes anyway :-
He doesn’t owe you anything.
I’m sorry but expecting his character to change or for him to give you a thoughtful gift on the level you gave him is just wishful thinking.
My LO never gave me a gift. Not even macaroons here ! But I made sure that I didn’t expect any gift, special words or birthday wishes.
I did at least do well to manage expectations with my LO.
On 2nd thoughts, he does actually owe you one thing, the return of that oil painting!
Come on girl. You are amazing and stronger than you think.
To Imho:
I do remind myself that he owes me nothing but the oil painting, and I am prepared to not get that back.
I would have never given it to him if I had known what would happen, but now that he has had it since March of 2023, I am learning that I can live without it.
Dear Norma, ☁️, Bewitched and ABCD,
Thank you all for your very helpful comments.
First, in response to Norma, I absolutely have not disclosed, nor do I ever intend to. That would be way too dangerous from multiple perspectives! I do worry, though, that there may have been a Freudian slip or two regarding my feelings, and that my overall behavior also my have betrayed them.
As to those suggesting no or minimal contact, I have already been going to office once a week or two, and that has not changed since LO reappeared. I _could_ reduce that further, but I, as well as my therapist, feel that I should respect my original priorities, and not change my behavior in response to one person. In effect, that would be making her too important. However, now I’m beginning to consider changing that type of thinking to practicing as close to NC as possible. However, there is also merit to what Bewitched said about not acting hastily. Tough to decide.
Trying to view the situation as objectively as possible, it is not clear that between LO and me, as to who is pushing harder for minimal contact. From my perspective, I feel as though I was pushing for a 90 percent reduction, but she one-upped me by pushing for 99 percent. Of course, these numbers are not objective measurements, and perhaps she thinks the reverse is happening. In any case, I do not want this to be a game between two children. As others have pointed out, and as I am well aware, LO is MUCH younger than me. I should be the adult in the room, but I also have to prioritize my own mental health.
I’m going to backtrack a bit to shed light as to why the whole saga fills me with regret. You see, my old boss and mentor, who retired almost 15 years ago, and who was suffering from cancer at the time of my retirement, nonetheless drove over two hours to be present at my retirement. He than gave the most flattering speech, overflowing with praise, that I can remember in my entire life. I then responded as to how he was the most amazing mentor, who goes out of his way to help others, not only when he was working, but well into retirement, and I said that I viewed him as a role model, and hoped to exhibit some of the same behavior.
Near the end of the retirement ceremony, my LO added to the praise with a brief but touching remark about how welcoming I had been.
Supported by these two speakers, I was positively euphoric. As another poster said, I should have taken the “win”, and not pressed for more. But in thinking about the long post-retirement mentorship, I thought I could be similarly “helpful” with regard to my LO, whom I did not recognize as such at the time, but was just a mentee.
Here’s where the tragedy comes. In January, just as I was exchanging emails with my LO, my own mentor passed away, but I did not come to know about this for another two months. When I mentioned earlier about neglecting my obligatigons to others in my orbit, this is what I’m talking about. I was so fixated on LO, and probably still am, that I did not sufficiently follow up on other important happenings.
What’s more, this now completely changes my memories of my retirement ceremony, and I experience a nagging guilt as well as grief. My unhealthy dreams of my own post-retirement mentor/mentee friendship are probably shattered for good. At the time, I thought I was “calibrating” my behavior so well. It is clear, in hindsight, that I was not.
To CatCyclist:
Thank you for elaborating. So are you saying that you felt you should have devoted more time following up with the health situation of your former mentor, and perhaps made an effort to see him before he passed away? And that your preoccupation with LO prevented you from doing that?
In hindsight, it’s easy to see that yes, you should have taken the “win” and been grateful. But at the time, didn’t it seem like you were doing the right thing? You could not possibly have known then what you know now.
Thanks, Norma, for putting things in context. I’ll have more to say after my weekend getaway with my wife.
Dear CatCyclist,
A couple of things jump out at me from your last post. Firstly
(On contact:) “I _could_ reduce that further, but I, as well as my therapist, feel that I should respect my original priorities, and not change my behavior in response to one person.”
This sentence reminds me of one of Dr L’s posts, or it may be in one of his videos. He talks about the danger of having therapy with someone who isn’t familiar with limerence, and that some therapists don’t recommend No Contact, or even recommend increasing contact, and that this is a mistake. However, I can’t for the life of me find where he’s written or said that. Anyone?
On your own mentor and regrets over not finding out about his death for two months. Would you reasonably have been expected to be in touch with him more frequently than you were? If so, would you have found out about his passing sooner, or had a chance to see him again? It would be interesting to explore exactly what you would like to have done differently, in hindsight.
Hi ☁️,
My therapist is really good, and aware of the concept of limerance. I asked her a few weeks ago if she was familiar with Dorothy Tennov. She was not. I had just ordered my own copy of her book, “Love and Limerance,” and decided to bring it to our next session. She was highly intrigued by it, and started to ruffle through the table of contents. She (the therapist) also identifies as an existential therapist, on top of CBT, so a byline by the great Simone de Beauvior certainly helped in piquing her interest! Next, I started googling for good reviews of Tennov, and came across this gem from an essayist that both of us (the therapist and me) hold in high regard: https://www.themarginalian.org/2021/11/25/love-and-limerence-dorothy-tennov/
In fact, it’s such a concise, laudatory review, that all of us on this site should also read it, whether we have time for the original work of Tennov or not.
When I meet her next week, hopefully she will have read the review, and I’m waiting to see what her thoughts on it are. I hope I don’t get into a big argument about the merits of NC v. exposure therapy! At the moment, I am strongly in favor of going as close to NC as possible.
She sounds great. It sounds as though you’re in good hands.
I hope you had a nice weekend with your wife.
Dear ☁️,
I had a wonderful time with my wife; thoughts about LO had receded into the background, and I gained a renewed appreciation for my wife. But strangely, as the work week starts, my unwanted thoughts are returning, this time not the pleasant kind, but a strange mixture of anger, wounded pride, and longing for LO.
BTW, here is the link you might have been referring to:
https://livingwithlimerence.com/case-study-when-no-contact-doesnt-work/
Thanks for your continued support, and best wishes on your limerance journey as well.
I’m glad you had a lovely weekend with your wife. These getaways really do help, but they don’t solve everything, as I’ve discovered over the past couple of years! The danger is you get back home to the same issues that were affecting you previously. They’re a great tool in the box alongside other deprogramming techniques.
I’m doing ok, thanks. I’m pretty confident I won’t see LO for the next couple of weeks at least, and I feel as though my brain training is working. I’ve got to the stage where I’m thinking about him much less, although I still feel as though it’s the result of making a conscious choice each day. If I chose to, I could still fantasise about him and it would create that hit of brain chemicals. I’m hoping that, with continued work, the reward circuit will be broken and I won’t be tempted to think of him in that way, much as I’m not tempted to think about plenty of other (very lovely) male friends or acquaintances or previous LOs.
Thank goodness for Dr L and this site. Understanding what’s going on in my brain, and following deprogramming advice, has shown me how to solve the problem that had dogged me for too long.
” this time not the pleasant kind, but a strange mixture of anger, wounded pride, and longing for LO.”
CatCyclist (which I have to say is a knee slapping funny username)
Aug 1st I took the day off of work to run errands and get some things done. By afternoon I was home. I had some drinks and relaxed. The weekend went by. Monday at work the gal from accounting at my job called me. She asked “Adam do you remember calling me Friday?” No. Why? “You called because you knew we were hiring someone and you suggested calling [LO’s name] and seeing if she wanted her job back.” I thought to myself, “damn you woman, what did you do to me?” while simultaneously whishing she did come back. It’s been over 3 years of NC on my part. It was the first time I was actually angry at her. And angry at myself for throwing my dignity out the door AGAIN if she had got hired back. Thankfully she didn’t. Limerence is the damndest thing.
Adam, do I get this story right? You called a work colleague on a Friday afternoon to suggest they hire LO, then you had no recollection of the conversation by the following Monday?
Yes that is correct. I was not sober when I made the phone call to her. I had running errands and doing chores half the day, so I decided to have some drinks making not possible for me to have to drive anywhere. And then I did that, so ….
To be so drunk that you make a phone call like that, and don’t even remember it, is not ok. You need to deal with your relationship with drink, as a higher priority than dealing with limerence.
Adam, Adam, Adam…
https://youtu.be/vDsG1Mj6c1M?feature=shared
I love The Onion..
L.E.
To quote my favorite comedian Chris Porter ….
“Here’s a good test fellas for the difference between infatuation and crazy. Infatuation is when you think about a girl a lot, you wonder what she’s doing, kinda wish you were involved. Crazy is when you go find out.”
I haven’t went to find out. Yet.
Cloud (Strife?)
Limerence has ruined my life in a much shorter time than alcohol has in a lifetime. I’ll be alright.
MJ,
LO #4 turned me on to this one https://youtu.be/C-hjNfcvzbI?feature=shared
The Woman screaming about knowing she’s unhappy was freaking hilarious..
I just forwarded that to my Ex. Can’t wait for her comment..
“Limerence has ruined my life in a much shorter time than alcohol has in a lifetime. I’ll be alright.”
Adam
Since you’re still married (and I’m not), I must agree.. 😁 🍻
@LE
I remember that one, lol!
L.E.
the lady looks similar to how I imagine from some of your stories
Hi Snow,
Thanks for raising these points regarding therapy. My therapist is being educated about limerance right now; I’ve sent her the important references. I’ll have more to say on this after my return to town.
I find that even in NC (11 days total, about 23 days since last long chat), my thoughts occasionally turn to LO, but they are much less frequent and much less intense. I am no longer nourishing my fantasy through efforts to get to know LO better. This is the impact of NC.
The fantasy still exists but it is not taking up as much space in my mind and I am not trying to mentally connect it to other parts of my real life the way I was before. For example, I had been starting to think of my current job as a way to gain entree into LO’s circle and be more attractive as a partner to LO rather than seeing it as a means to provide for my family and realize my ambitions independent of the limerence fantasy. Now that I have stopped thinking about my work that way, I can assess sources of stress in my life more clearly and manage them more healthily.
Great progress, Sapiens.
It’s amazing how our obsession starts to affect how we think about EVERYTHING and it’s only when we start to emerge from the fog that we realise how strange it is.
Thanks, ☁️ … I appreciate your comments. They are thoughtful and to the point!
I put No Contact into two categories. One is where I tough it out with sheer willpower. That one doesn’t seem to work. The other one is where LO snaps at me, as he did about a week ago, and I recoil into NC. That is the only thing that works for me.
I am very disappointed in myself. The relationship holds very little for me. I don’t have romantic fantasies, and I know he has an unpredictable temperament, but yet I am drawn to him. I have been very good to him and he doesn’t deserve it, based on his behavior.
I remind myself daily, hourly, that he owes me nothing. I am prepared to give up that oil painting I left with him in March of 2023.
Perhaps it’s better that he’s so snappish. I am easily intimidated and it doesn’t take much to send me scurrying away.
The fantasy doesn’t need to be romantic.
One of the things that was a relief to me about limerence is that it is not the same as romantic fantasy in the typical sense (i.e., including physical affection and sex). That made me feel slightly less guilty and unfaithful. I don’t fantasize about doing much physically with LO. My attraction to LO is 99% in my mind (as opposed to my body).
For me, the fantasy is that I would get satisfaction from knowing LO feels the same way I do – or did – because I think LO is a rare and amazing person whom I am lucky to have gotten to know (sort of). Wouldn’t it be grand if LO thought I was good enough to be LO’s companion and I could be the one at LO’s side one day, in private and in public? My name on LO’s Wikipedia page, etc. The thought remains exhilarating, though now I can laugh at it, and I have stopped trying to improve my chances.
Do you not have a similar fantasy? If not, what are you hoping for? You want to know you are cherished by him, correct? What would that get you? Why is it so hard to move on, since you know he does not feel the same? Is it just a sense of wasted time, or do you want another audience to see that you have your LO’s stamp of approval? (I just shared that is part of the fantasy for me, so I don’t ask that question with any judgement.)
To Sapiens:
Thank you for your thoughtful comments.
I think it comes down to stature. When I was married and had children at home, I felt I had a certain kind of stature in the world. Each person left, one by one, and I now struggle to find purpose. My problem is compounded by the fact that I am disabled and most activities are too tiring for me. If I could keep busy, I think I’d be okay. I don’t have the energy to stay active the entire day, which leaves too much time for ruminating.
LO is a person of high stature, being renowned in his field, and I feel important by osmosis, I guess. That sounds crazy. It doesn’t hurt that he is hot, cuddly man candy, and I feel on top of the world when he hugs me.
I definitely recognise the yearning for stature.