Posting a day ahead of schedule to hit the annual romantic milestone of Valentine’s Day.
This week’s YouTube video is all about finding solace in times of romantic distress, by reframing what limerence is and what it means for your life.
Although it’s only the first stage of limerence recovery, getting into the recovery mindset is a huge step forwards.
The essence of purposeful living is letting go of excuses, accepting that limerence limbo is a no win situation, and deciding to take control of your future.
It’s all about trying to redirect the enormous energy of limerence – both the mania and the misery – into personal transformation instead. Like all addictions, there comes a point where you are so deep in the hole that your only option is to stop digging and climb towards the light.
To anyone reading who is in their own private limerence prison today, know that there are ways to escape. Lots of people here, including me, have been where you are and freed themselves. As the saying goes:
Addiction is the only prison where the locks are on the inside
Valentine’s Day can be tough if you’re trapped in limerence. Use it as the excuse you need to start working on your escape plan.
Fabulous video, Dr L!
Happy Valentine’s Day, everyone!
If you are New_To_Limerence, please read this article and watch Dr L’s video!
Hello, this is my first post. I am shy about posting here, since I am not sure if I will fit in. Everyone else seems to be highly literate. I am grateful for the Valentine’s Day comments, as this holiday hits me hard.
Having said that, I am on my way to LO’s house with belated Valentine gifts. Part of me is self-loathing, part of me feels beneficent.
I told my LO right up front that I have a crush on him, and we have been maintaining a friendship for about two years. We’re both single, but he’s gay, so there is no possibility of romance. We enjoy each other’s company, but I do suffer in private. Things feel very awkward at times.
He will be moving to another state within six months to a year, so I am not pushing to end the relationship. We’re both over 65, so perhaps the age factor makes it a bit easier.
Thank you for listening, and I hope to learn from all of you.
Welcome Norma!
You are not the first woman to develop feelings for a gay man. If your relationship is comfortable for both of you and you respect each other’s boundaries, I don’t see a problem. You have to choose for yourself if you are willing to “suffer in private.”
I hope that Sammy introduces himself to you. He is a member of our community who I think could be a helpful resource to you.
By the way, when you post comments, feel free to use an alias in the “name” field. It’s fine either way.
Best wishes!
Not sure I understand. Norma Desmond is the character played by Gloria Swanson in “Sunset Boulevard.” I identify with her in some ways, although her behavior is deplorable.
You may recall she shot William Holden and he ended up dead in the swimming pool.
Oh, that is funny! You are using an alias. Serial Limerent caught on, but I didn’t. I am familiar with Sunset Boulevard, but not enough to remember the names of the characters.
Well… I hope you don’t identify with the dark side of Norma Desmond.
Thanks for clarifying.
I chose Norma Desmond because she is someone who is trying to recapture her lost glory. I identify with that aspect of her. I am 72 and my LO is 66. We had a belated Valentine’s Day celebration. Not a celebration, really, but I gave him some balloons and some candy, and he was very appreciative. He enjoys my company but does not encourage me to be dependent on him. He is somewhat emotionally shut down, although he has expressed fondness for me.
I am very mindful that Dr. Tom says that it’s not possible to be friends. I believe this is true, so I am not exactly sure what I hope to accomplish in this relationship.
Hello Norma Desmond and welcome to our forum..
Please note, If that is your real name, you don’t have to use it. (In case you are fearful of being recognized. Maybe not.
Some people are..) Don’t worry about not fitting in. I’ve been here awhile and I still don’t fit in.. 🤣
As for being literate, I believe you’ll be just fine because you appear to be literate yourself by the way you write.
You’ve disclosed to LO but it’s a dead end because he’s gay. I’m sorry you suffer. Many of us limerents suffer because our LOs are unavailable or do not reciprocate in a way we’d like them to. I can understand why that makes it hard for you and why his moving away probably won’t make that any easier. Consider yourself lucky you’ve maintained a friendship. Sometimes in situations like my LE was, I never even came close to that.
I hope your LO likes his gifts.
Have a look around in the former blogs to see what is available and what might help. Hopefully somebody else will also reply with something helpful for you to get by with. Someone’s always posting something, so feel free to jump in wherever and join the conversation.
I’m pretty sure Norma Desmond is a pseudonym. 😉
I love Sunset Boulevard, by the way! 🙂
Ah, I see that Serial Limerent is familiar with “Sunset Boulevard.” Thank you.
The first time I saw that movie, I thought Norma Desmond was a crazy old lady. The second time I saw that movie, I was shocked to realize that she was only about 47, and that I was then far older than she was.
Norma’s downfall came because she was no longer relevant. I am trying to stay at least one step ahead of her.
47??!! Dang, she presents as 60 at least! We still have so much life left in us!
If you have a chance to take a look at the film again, she is surprisingly young. It may be that her clothing style suggests an older person, but she isn’t that old.
I based that on pictures I looked up online, since it’s been a while since I saw the movie. I also did a little googling and it seems that it’s a common perception that she looks much older, based on how the character was made up and lighting, and those pictures of her “emoting” do make her look older. Some stills make her look older, some younger. They wanted to make her look older, but she insisted they make Holden look younger instead. Movie magic is amazing. 😉
I haven’t seen the movie in quite a while, but there was one light-hearted sequence where she was performing a little routine for William Holden and he commented on how talented she was and how much life she still had in her. Of course, the whole point of the movie was how she herself felt washed up and discarded by Hollywood.
Perhaps similar to how some of us feel after being rejected by LO?
I got pulled into a “how old do you think we are?” conversation with LO and another female co-worker (now former as well). I told them I know better than to take that bait. Then LO baited me with “people always think I look older than I really am” and I bit down on that hook hard. At least I only made one enemy that day when I guessed my other co-worker older than she was and LO younger than she really was. It was basically a no win situation. But later in the day when my other co-worker found me she said “I didn’t expect you do anything less.” So at least she wasn’t upset.
To Adam:
Trying to guess ages seems like a no-win situation. I told LO right up front that I am six years older than he is, since I figured he’d think it wasn’t polite to ask. I try not to be weird about my age or my weight.
Hi Norma,
You are not alone…and you CAN get through this. Yes, the people here are hugely emotionally intelligent, and you are doing the right thing, posting and sharing your private pain.
I too have limerence for a younger man, unaccessible to me. He is 20 yrs my junior. He’s straight…but, the age gap is substantial. He likes me a lot, thinks I’m very special, but does not see me as a romantic option, unlike you, I haven’t revealed my feelings, but it is finally dawning on me, and I’m working to absorb his disinterest and move ahead (very difficult, I feel horrible some days). Admitting he does not find me attractive *enough* actually physically hurts to type. At some point, it won’t, but right now it sure does. At my worst, I too feel worthless. I feel washed up, past my prime…rather pathetic.
That being said, I am younger than you are….49. So, you may be saying “Oh child, you know nothing of irrelevance, just you wait!”…and I can understand that. So please hear me out… 🙂
I would say to you that your feeling of irrelevance is likely not, in fact, reality. If I feel it, at my age, and you feel it, at yours…and the commonality here is that we are BOTH in limerence for younger, unobtainable men, then I am going to posit for consideration that you are not irrellevant (and neither am I). We only FEEL irrelevent. And there is a big difference… It is an emotional state, not and the feeling can pass.
One of the hallmarks of limerence is the experience of a bottoming-out of self-esteem. The feeling you are worthless, the feeling you are irrelevant, a failure, lacking, lacking in….whatever that key ingredient is that makes us magnetic, desirable, worthy!… But, as a serial limerent I can tell you, if you did not feel worthless going IN, before you met your Limerent Object, then you will realize you are not worthless/irrelevent when you come OUT.
I am going to speak from my own experience, and guess, what you are feeling, expressing in your posts, the irrelevance, maybe even the feeling your “chance” at feeling valued and love is gone, is being brought about, in chief, by your exposure to your Limerent Object.
If it is something you struggled with before, then it’s certainly being worsened, and inflamed, by your limerence.
I would strongly encourage you to think back to before you met him. Did you feel irrelevant then? If not, then consider your involvement may be the source. And ask…if it is worth it to let that drag you down into these feelings.
I am beginning to realize, very slowly and with practice, that it is not worth it to me…but it is very hard. Not just a switch I have been able to turn on with my mind. I have to remember to ask the question, and I have to work to remember that my beloved LO’s presence in my life may actually be doing me harm, in the big picture sense, the way a drug harms an addict. They don’t feel it – but eventually, it becomes very clear, their involvement is leading to a hard, hard place.
With empathy,
CSC
Thank you for that wonderful reply. I have struggled for years with feeling irrelevant. I suffer from a chronic illness and can’t get out too much, so that is a huge contributor.
I am NOT a serial limerant. I got divorced just over 20 years ago, and have not had a date or any interest in any man. So when my hot gay LO hit me between the eyes, it was an unpleasant shock and also a fun, welcome distraction.
I told him right up front how I felt, since I believed that if he couldn’t handle it, we probably shouldn’t even fraternize. Since we’re both so old, we have some maturity and have been able to figure out how to manage an awkward friendship.
He tries not to hurt me, but of course he does. We were together yesterday. He told me that, even if I was an “eleven,” he wouldn’t be able to be in any kind of a relationship, and I believe that. He is emotionally shut down and has difficulty expressing tender emotions.
In an odd way, this relationship has been empowering, because I have behaved in an exemplary manner around him. That has actually raised my self esteem. I can see that he is incapable of responding, not because he’s gay, but because he’s, well, just incapable. He crosses his arms and legs a lot, and averts eye contact. I can FEEL the defensiveness from him, and it’s not caused by me, it’s just who he is.
I have struggled tremendously with giving him too much power, and feeling like his responses toward me are somehow an indication of my own value.
Getting back to your comment, I felt irrelevant at 49, and I feel irrelevant now. The difference is that it seems to soften somewhat with age. Perhaps menopause was a contributor? I have heard other older women say that they have relaxed and become more tolerant of themselves with age.
Thank you for your comments, and I hope we can continue this discussion.
@Norma
Hm. Well, I’m sorry you have felt irrelevant for so long. That can’t be a nice way to feel. Truly, it sounds like you are suffering a great deal, in several areas of your life. I’m very sorry for what you are going through.
“He crosses his arms and legs a lot, and averts eye contact. I can FEEL the defensiveness from him, and it’s not caused by me, it’s just who he is.”
How do you know how he acts when you are not around him? Maybe he is defensive around you…
“I have struggled tremendously with giving him too much power, and feeling like his responses toward me are somehow an indication of my own value.”
His responses to you are not an indication of your value. They may be an indication of your value TO HIM. But, if he had the true ability to determine individual value, none of us would have our own limerent objects. We’d all be looking to him to tell us our value. Just because you feel he determines value for you, does not mean he has that magical ability.
“I have behaved in an exemplary manner around him.”
What is that manner? You have been…kind, a good friend…maybe other things? You could be that for many more people, and not be in this situation…I am certain you have many amazing qualities, all qualities he is making you feel are alive inside of yourself! My LO does the same thing. But now, I am looking at myself and saying, “LO or no LO, those qualities are inside of me. They do not depend on his presence.” And I try to remember that, especially when I feel worthless or irrelevant.
“Part of me is self-loathing, part of me feels beneficent.”
The self-loathing is hard. I believe it’s because somewhere, deep inside, you understand this may not be good for you. Even if LO is a lovely person, and you have a special friendship…some little part of you is unhappy with this. I know because I have the same mix of feelings…often…surrounding mine. I feel guilt, shame, and like I am letting myself down.
Lately, though, I have begun to turn that slightly – wondering, what is all the time spent in this situation preventing me from doing? Experiencing? I have to believe there is something else out there for me.
And I will believe there is something else out there for you, as well, if you want that…which you may? It is SO hard, but you are here, and you’ve come this far, and you have taken such a brave step even voicing your concern.
I am so sorry for all you are going through. Some of the most inspiring people I have ever met have faced chronic illness…and I know it’s horrible. But, within you is power that you may never have given voice to. That may be why this limerence exists….it can have a silver lining. It really can.
I hope you will take a moment to care for yourself, and be gentle with yourself. You deserve it.
CSC
To CSC:
Thank you for your thoughtful comments. There’s a lot there, I probably can’t get to all of it, but I will address a few points. LO has told me that his defensiveness “is just my nature,” and I do believe that. When I say I have behaved in an exemplary manner toward him, I simply mean that I have not done anything that I would be ashamed of later. I seem to remember reading or hearing that sometimes limerents behave foolishly? I have managed to avoid doing so, and in fact, I have managed to stay dignified, kindly and supportive toward LO. If I review all of my behavior, the only thing I regret is ruminating so much. And LO doesn’t know about that.
Being around him has helped me realize that I have good qualities and that I do have something to offer, so that part has been helpful. And of course I can offer the same to others in different situations, where it might be more appreciated.
“Valentine’s Day can be tough if you’re trapped in limerence. Use it as the excuse you need to start working on your escape plan.”
It’s not any easier when your birthday and LOs birthday coincidentally are both on Valentines Day. Then the escape plan just about fails too..
Lord have mercy.. 😑😔
Thanks for the video..
Happy Birthday, MJ!!!!
Happy Birthday MJ !
Your birthday celebration is far more important. I will raise a glass to you later.
Happy birthday, @MJ ! I hope you have a wonderful, special day.
🙂
Happy day of your birth brother. When I get home I’ll pour some out for my homie.
Thank you @Lovisa, Imho, CSC and Brother Adam.. Really appreciate all of you and your support.. 🍻🍻
PS, Lady Friend reached out today..
All hope is not lost.. 😂😂
No I’m not overthinking either.. 🤣
You’re smiling and that’s the main thing on your Birthday, MJ. Have a wonderful day.
🥳🫂
Thank you @Bewitched. I’m trying.. That’s very sweet of you..
😉🙂
Happy birthday MJ!!
Who cares about Valentine’s Day?? Birthdays are much nicer.
Thank you @Mila. I agree. Age is just a number, right??
Happy birthday MJ. I’ve got us a bottle of Courvoisier with your name on it here at the Amoors Inn
Thank you LaR, that’s excellent. I love Courvoisier..
Cheers. 🍸🍸
Happy birthday, MJ! I’m glad to hear LF reached out ☺️
Thank you @Cordelia..
It’s nice to hear from you.
I’ll be posting an update with replies, from my last update soon.
Stay tuned Cheerleader.. 😁😉
Happy Birthday，MJ!
Whatever delight you is on the inn, though I can’t serve you myself (I sprang my low back and in bed for the past two days).
Thanks @Snow
I appreciate your kindness and I do hope your back starts feeling better soon too. Lower back pain is awful..
Hi Snow
when I sprang my lower back the doctor told me to move it after treatment, go for walks, not lie in bed?
But maybe we are talking of different things.
Hope you feel better soon!!
MJ, Mila,
Yes, despite the hell of pain, I took a very slow walk yesterday to circulate blood. I can stand, walk or lie down now, but still can’t sit.
Took all sorts of painkillers.
Thank you for caring…
Poor Snow!
Maybe some acupuncture or Shiatsu might help.. definitely take those painkillers!
anyway, best wishes that it‘ll go away soon!!
Getting into a Recovery Mindset takes work.
“Reality… what a concept!” – Robin Williams
A few songs that capture what happened when LO #4 went off script and the nice little LE that was perking in my head suddenly became very real and threatened to blow my life apart if I didn’t get a handle on it.
“Amore, Scusami” Jerry Vale (1968)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMq8-qW59Z0
Ok, so it’s way over the top, narcissistic, and presumptuous, but it played in to a lot of emotions.
“Bye, Bye Baby” – The Four Seasons (1965)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTZPDGwgoc0
What can I say..?
“Midnight Confessions” – The Grass Roots (1968)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uCgODOhwXA
A variation on the theme. The Limerent is free but the LO is attached.
And, when the day comes that you achieve that Recovery Mindset, you go to war:
“We’re going to hold onto him by the nose, and we’re gonna kick him in the ass.” – Gen. George S. Patton
“Theme from Patton” – (1970)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZhHW3dq55Q
And, when you get further along….
“Guadacanal March” – “Victory At Sea” (1959)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chxtUvDh8Jw
Inspiration is where you find it.
Rebuke/ /Spell
Kinsale Drake
I pull my heart out with teeth and claws,
leave it glimmering on the glass table:
Begone! Palo santo, sagebrush, sweetgrass
ash in the shadows. Taste cornpollen,
bitter medicine—the stomach-swirling
of forgetting. Cast it out! Memories skein
beneath the silver surface—butterfly fish
that bite. Dash the mirror. The table,
let a form fall through it. Eat
the shards. Fill up the walnut-sized gap
in your chest where your heart once was. Yes,
you—staring into aquamarine and amethyst
and praying for a miracle. Most terrible and hated
and beloved part of you: sever
the gold chain like a string
of spit. Plant a new orchid,
untouched by everything except the god
who is the sun, his body
rolling in eternity. A newer moon will mesh
the blood inside of you.
*****
about this poem
“Poetry is powerful. Often born of strong feelings, spells can pull from the glittery and darkest parts of ourselves. This poem, framed as ‘Spell,’ demands, somehow, action and emergence from contradiction and stagnancy. I wanted to name these sensitivities and create a kind of exploding effect that ultimately returns to what is beautiful and natural. Despite what we want to destroy, we will always need a heart—something to ‘mesh / the blood inside of you.’”
—Kinsale Drake
@Adam,
Heard this the other day and thought of you.. Our good friend Mr. Lemon has some wise words for the limerent mind in this one.. Put it on later when you raise that glass.. 🍻
-Dope Lemon
“Golden God”
https://youtu.be/QtJWV0sKeno?si=uTbSclv-81RD_yn0
MJ
Poured out a shot of vodka for you. Im six ways to Sunday. I gotta confess my sins and say a pray for LO and her daughter at church. I do it every Sunday. This song kills me. I liked the song you sent but not as good as Rose Pink Cadillac. I submit to you a song that doesn’t do me or you any good. Maybe another drink or two. Psst MJ don’t tell Miss Lovisa I’ve been drunk posting. She’s a sweet lady LwL doesn’t deserve. Imma lay with Momma. Hope your day went well. If Miss Lovisa finds out tell her I’m trying to be a better Christian. But I’m not good at it. LO (yours) seems like a sweet lady. Pull out her chair for this old man. Take care brother. Solidarity.
https://youtu.be/Xz9GvJOvbCI?si=x8Iloo3qoe-Rgjlg
Thanks for the song Brother. No it doesn’t do either of us any good but it means well.
Gonna be hard to keep your drunk posting from Den Mom, since you posted what you did, lol..
Yeah, I figured some Dope Lemon would go good with a drink or two. Keep listening to it. It will grow on you.. I can’t get that bass line out of my head..
“If she wants to go get lost in somebody else’s eyes, just let her be son, just let it be.”
Wise words for the limerent.
Have a good day Brother
Cheers.. 🍻
😂😂😂
I’m having a bad relapse brother. I just got home from running to get Momma medicine from the pharmacy. I was playing a youtube mix for my commute. And this song came on while I was driving. I was fighting tears. I hate this brother. I want this behind me.
“Maybe it’s been crazy. Maybe I’m to blame. Cause I put my heart above my head.”
Hello Again — Neil Diamond
https://youtu.be/5O6KDuKJoB0?si=6ll6GZWgvmLrlzBS
Adam,
The congregation sang this song today. It always moves me to tears.
“I Know That My Redeemer Lives
1. I know that my Redeemer lives.
What comfort this sweet sentence gives!
He lives, he lives, who once was dead.
He lives, my ever-living Head.
He lives to bless me with his love.
He lives to plead for me above.
He lives my hungry soul to feed.
He lives to bless in time of need.
2. He lives to grant me rich supply.
He lives to guide me with his eye.
He lives to comfort me when faint.
He lives to hear my soul’s complaint.
He lives to silence all my fears.
He lives to wipe away my tears.
He lives to calm my troubled heart.
He lives all blessings to impart.
3. He lives, my kind, wise heav’nly Friend.
He lives and loves me to the end.
He lives, and while he lives, I’ll sing.
He lives, my Prophet, Priest, and King.
He lives and grants me daily breath.
He lives, and I shall conquer death.
He lives my mansion to prepare.
He lives to bring me safely there.
4. He lives! All glory to his name!
He lives, my Savior, still the same.
Oh, sweet the joy this sentence gives:
“I know that my Redeemer lives!”
He lives! All glory to his name!
He lives, my Savior, still the same.
Oh, sweet the joy this sentence gives:
“I know that my Redeemer lives!”
Text: Samuel Medley, 1738–1799
Music: Lewis D. Edwards, 1858–1921
We were standing to sing this song. Because our meeting was several congregations combined (hundreds of people, maybe a thousand), it was broadcast. I was standing in my living room in my pajamas trying to sing these beautiful words. My tears made it difficult to sing. The fourth verse always gets to me, but it was even harder today because my 9-year-old noticed me crying so she stood next to me with her arm around me and sang the the last verse ending in, “I know that my Redeemer Lives!” WOW! It was powerful!
Adam, I suggest that you put your focus elsewhere today.
There is a summit near me that is very intense. I have never been able to make it to the top because the heights are too much for me. I’ve been told that the trick is to focus on the shack at the summit and move towards it. I think you might find peace today if you focus on something good and then move towards it.
Best wishes!
@Adam
I don’t know if there is much I can do, other than add to the good Den Mothers advice. It does bring to mind a moment I had with a song in church a few years back..
A couple Summers ago, I went to Saturday night mass at the Church where LO was married. I only knew where it was at because it was posted on her socials and I think she must have forgotten to take some of her wedding pics down. I felt bad she was already divorced. (As I know how much divorce really sucks.) I went on the day what would have been her 7th anniversary. Her marriage lasted only about a year, but I wanted to see where it all began. The church, the windows, the aisle she walked down, the places where they took pictures of her as a beautiful bride. I imagined her walking down that aisle, the music, the excitement, the smile on her face, all the families gathered there. Even the flowers she held were beautiful. Overall her wedding pics broke my heart. I spent almost the whole mass tearing up. Wishing I could have witnessed it live. But in my head, I was already there. Fantasizing I was the lucky Man that got to marry her.
It was a very mentally self-sabotaging, almost self-abusive challenging 60 minutes to remain there, and at the same time keep my composure. But just being there to ruminate over her was my choice. Like I was even praying what was I really doing there except to suffer in silence?? Then this was the next song we sang..
“When the storms of life are raging Lord, stand by me. When the current pulls me under Lord, stand by me. When the rising waters toss me like a ship upon the sea. You who rule the wind and water Lord, stand by me..
Stand by me, stand by me. Lift me up from the restless sea. When I am lost and love can’t be found, when no one cares Lord, stand by me, stand by me..”
Imagine my dumb, middle aged a$$ there crying like a baby during all that.. 😭😭
So pathetic isn’t it? But there was a strange comfort that came over me in that moment too and it at least reminded me God is in control.. That God’s got this. And yes you are going through hell, but you simply need to keep going through it..
I didn’t leave there that day a changed man, but I was there for a reason and I have to keep telling myself that. I mean the lyrics alone from that song touched me in a way I’ve never felt before. (And yes I did look for it on my ITunes and added it to her playlist) I still self-sabotage myself to this day, putting sappy love songs on that remind me of nothing but LO and it still hurts.. I get a sick comfort in doing it though, so I guess I get why Neil Diamond would take you there. (That is a nice song btw) Doesn’t take much to set us back. I get it.. 😂
In your case, remember you have a Wife at home waiting for you in your nice warm house.. I’ll be going home to my Daughter’s goldfish later. The house will be cold because we’ve got a strong arctic blast coming from the north tonight and it’s going to get down to about -4 and cold as f— all week. With temps hardly getting out of the teens.
Perhaps put your focus elsewhere right now. Put on a podcast. Play a video game with your Son. Think of all the reasons you love Momma.. God’s got you in the chaos. And I’m here for you too Brother. Keep me posted..
In Solidarity..
🤜🏻🤛🏻
Mother Lovisa/Brother MJ
Thank you for your encouragement. I definitely needed it. I did find distraction in that I had the courage to call the pastor yesterday evening. After his sermon he shared a story of an old friend that he went to college with that was an atheist. His friend called him a few weeks ago and was asking for help for the emptiness that he felt. His friend told him that he wanted to understand how he (the pastor) felt purpose in believing in God.
I called the pastor to tell him that I was in the same situation that his friend was in. That I stopped believing in God and felt the loneliness of loss of faith. While I didn’t return to the religion I was raised in, I did return to church to try and find my faith again. And I told him that while I started out going to a Catholic church I found this church and I am glad that I did. I still haven’t told him that limerence is what got me searching for something greater than me. But I have told him that a sin against my wife is why I reached out to God and came to this church.
Due to the very in climate weather that is on it’s way (below zero) starting tomorrow, the church has changed Bible study from the usual Wednesday to today. So I am going to try and attend after work. I told the pastor on the phone I was going to try to be there.
A sister at church complimented me on what I was wearing at service yesterday and I chuckled and said that my mother would never let me wear jeans to church. 🙂 She would send me back to my room. Here in the south it is difficult for me to grasp the overall informal attire that is worn at church. I usually stand out in the crowd. To the point the pastor often razzes me that I intentionally try to out dress him. 🙂
I think fellowship and Bible study tonight will be good for me and keep my mind on the right path. I wore some nice clothes to work so I will look like I should. Just gotta do it. It’s difficult for me though everyone is so welcoming to me when I do attend fellowship.
Thank you two for your spiritual guidance and help. Lord knows I need it to keep on the right path. And pastor Daniel for being there for me when I didn’t even know I needed him to be. I don’t think I would have stuck with this church if it weren’t for him.
Brother
I need you to talk to me. Your account of going to LOs church has got me needing to speak up about something that I have been contemplating. But of course anyone else reading this can speak their mind as well.
June 3 this year is 3 years since she left. And I have been contemplating visiting where she worked on that day. I don’t know what I think that it is going to accomplish. I think it might help me find final closure but it may do the exact opposite. Funny while I type this my youtube mix decided “You’re Easy on the Eyes” is the appropriate song to play. Which it might be. “But it ain’t funny, honey, what you put me through.” “Hard on the heart” is certainly relatable. I’d like to hear your thoughts on this decision. Even if it’s “Adam don’t do you do it dumba$$!” 🙂 Lord knows I need all the help I can get. And I greatly value your opinion my friend.
I distracted myself yesterday after calling the pastor with playing Warframe with our youngest and then I watched some fun youtube videos with Momma before I went to sleep. And here I am this morning. Thank you two for your posts. They really helped.
In solidarity indeed my brother.
@Adam
I’m not going to tell you not to do it, but I’m also not going to advise that you should. Remember that my scenario there was from a time when I was going through some major fallout over LO leaving the building. Infact she hadn’t even been gone 6 months yet and every day I was anxious over the fact she was. Looking for her in places at work when I knew she really wasn’t there. Hoping I’d round a corner and she would just show up and I’d just happen to bump into her. I’d walk by another office that I remembered seeing her in once and she had simply the most gorgeous smile I’d ever seen on a Woman. I think about it now and it still tears me up. I remember leaving work late one night and the monitor in her old cubicle was on. I must have walked by it 10 times before I left that night, hoping I would see her but I never did. Instead I left in tears.
Those were the crazy limerent things I did and to some extent probably still do. Because I go in to work every night now on her end of the complex and drive past the building we worked at and the one she’s currently in. I do this hoping I’ll maybe see her or get a glimpse of her. Maybe see her walking to her car and she might recognize my car. I’m hoping she’ll wave at me, flag me over, ask me how I’m doing and I’ll stop, get out of my car and embrace her with a warm hug while she tells me she misses me, but wtf? 🤯
Who am I to think thats going to be the fantasy come true? That Woman didn’t know me like that because I couldn’t even squeak out as much as a “boo” to her.. It’s almost cringeworthy thinking about the total a$$ I made of myself around that Woman but limerence caused me to think up and do some pretty incredibly ridiculous things. Even suicide at one point, if you can remember that..
Guess what I’m trying to tell you is going to the old place you and LO were working at is not going to make matters any better for you. If you’re even contemplating of going, it’s my guess you still have unresolved matters going on with Momma. I know you love her and you mean well, but remember LO won’t be over there when/if you go. While I’m sure it will be lovely to ruminate for a bit, how is that going to really help you now? Your LE situation seems to really gnaw at you when you think about the things you said to LO when she was around. I can tell she was really a light in your day. You also often mention what a champion of a Wife you have to have put up with you through a lot of that. I don’t think my Wife was that strong, so again I would say be grateful for that Woman.
We really only do the things we do because we justify what we think could make us happy but in reality, it really isn’t doing a gosh darn thing. Like maybe say, your drinking or like when I thought looking at porn with my Wife could make us both happier. Instead I ended up in divorce court.
We live life forward but we think about it backwards. It can be insane. I’ve had some roller coaster moments with Lady Friend lately that I’m going post about soon. Her hot/cold moments have a tendency to draw me back into LO reverie, but that’s only because she’s going through her own thing with all her drama and I’m trying to stay out of it. I’ve found that the less entangled I get in her business, the more she’s likely to come around and talk to me about it, but she still doesn’t know I know about her and Dude.. The less I dwell on it, the better I am. I’m just glad she still doesn’t resent me and is still a good friend..
I guess. 😂😂
Perhaps not dwelling on what wasn’t, is where you need to be at today Brother. I know it’s hard. Believe me, I know it is. You often post that song “Let her go” so maybe you need to hear that again.
Or just put on that Dope Lemon song I recently posted and have a shot of Crown later. Think I might just do that now and raise my shot glass to you..
“If she wants to go get lost in somebody else’s eyes, just let her be son, just let it be.”
Seems to help.. 😉🤪
Bottoms up Brother.. 🥂
Solidarity
🤜🏻🤛🏻
I just read that you’re contemplating showing up at LO’s work to give yourself closure.
Adam, I don’t know you well, but I will chime in to say, consider that seeking closure may be very dangerous. Even tho it’s been a long time for you (3 yrs right?)…I wonder if you have thought about how it would feel, just as a thought experiment, to say “Nope, not going, gonna let that day pass like any other!”…and ask yourself, how would you feel the following day? Would you feel…maybe like you had withstood, and stood up for yourself, and your future?
Would you feel calmer? Would you feel maybe like…Wow. Or maybe, would you feel a sense of closure – because you had chosen yourself, and gone in the direction, maybe, of your God…
You seem like such a spiritual person, what if…instead of celebrating that day with a visit and trying to prove you are beyond it, you simply say a prayer for her, and know, your God is taking care of it with you, in your heart, and for you.
Just a question – I was moved by your story, and how hard you are working. I’m in my own struggle, and oh how I love a good relapse (cringe…) :/ so I say all this with great care and support.
CSC
Hi CSC,and Adam,
Adam doesn’t want to show up at her work, he wants to go where she worked three years ago on her last day in his work environment, so she won’t be there. Just in case you misunderstood.
I‘m actually not sure if I would do it or not in your place, Adam, but I tend to say, don’t. The danger of reminiscing and wallowing is quite big. Don’t put yourself through that at a time when you have a relapse (I think you wrote that somewhere). I think it will cause you unnecessary pain at the moment.
Use the day to do something nice with your wife or son, in defying the anniversary! How about that?
Ohhh I see. @Adam @Mila got it. Sorry!
Yeah, that would be hugely triggering for me. Maybe not something I could handle, LO present or not…would definitely trigger me. Though, at that point, I’d be strong enough to override taking any real action to reach out to LO.
I’m sure it’s a very personal choice. I hope whatever happens, it helps you feel centered and strong. 🙂
Adam,
“June 3 this year is 3 years since she left. And I have been contemplating visiting where she worked on that day. I don’t know what I think that it is going to accomplish. I think it might help me find final closure but it may do the exact opposite.”
Don’t, just don’t.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boY7i11aYRA
Good one LE..
I don’t care what anyone says.. Ziva could smack me on the head anytime..
🥴🥰😂
MJ,
I was always more partial to Sasha Alexander.
One of my buddies worked for NCIS. He approved the scripts and met all the actors. He’d ask me about the Navy. I have an uncredited line spoken by McGee in an episode. I also have an autographed picture of Cote de Pablo.
Even cooler, I’m 3 degrees of separation from Sophia Loren.
You make me laugh LE.
3 degrees of separation from Sophia Loren?? Very nice.
I’d only be jealous if you had said Jane Seymour instead.. 😂
MJ,
I’m 3 degrees of separation from Jane Seymour, too.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankenstein:_The_True_Story
Ok, now thems fightin words.. 😂😂
She was only 22 in 1973
I was 2 in 1973.. Wtf. 🤯
I never saw that version of Frankenstein and I forgot she was a Bond Girl. Been forever since I’ve seen that one. She looks pretty good for 74 imo..
UPON THE SAND
ELLA WHEELER WILCOX|
All love that has not friendship for its base
Is like a mansion built upon the sand.
Though brave its walls as any in the land,
And its tall turrets lift their heads in grace;
Though skilful and accomplished artists trace
Most beautiful designs on every hand,
And gleaming statues in dim niches stand,
And fountains play in some flow’r-hidden place:
Yet, when from the frowning east a sudden gust
Of adverse fate is blown, or sad rains fall,
Day in, day out, against its yielding wall,
Lo! the fair structure crumbles to the dust.
Love, to endure life’s sorrow and earth’s woe,
Needs friendship’s solid mason-work below.
****
Glimmer should serve for the corner stone of the friendship foundation, the mason of which requires mutual hands to lay marbles one by one…
FRIENDSHIP AFTER LOVE
Ella Wheeler Wilcox
After the fierce midsummer all ablaze
Has burned itself to ashes, and expires
In the intensity of its own fires,
There come the mellow, mild, St. Martin days,
Crowned with the calm of peace, but sad with haze.
So after Love has led us, till he tires
Of his own throes and torments and desires,
Comes large-eyed friendship: with a restful gaze
He beckons us to follow, and across
Cool, verdant vales we wander free from care.
Is it a touch of frost lies in the air?
Why are we haunted with a sense of loss?
We do not wish the pain back, or the heat;
And yet, and yet, these days are incomplete.
WHAT SHALL WE DO?
Ella Wheeler Wilcox
Here now forevermore our lives must part.
My path leads there, and yours another way.
What shall we do with this fond love, dear heart?
It grows a heavier burden day by day.
Hide it? In all earth’s caverns, void and vast,
There is not room enough to hide it, dear;
Not even the mighty storehouse of the past
Could cover it from our own eyes, I fear.
Drown it? Why, were the contents of each ocean
Merged into one great sea, too shallow then
Would be its waters to sink this emotion
So deep it could not rise to life again.
Burn it? In all the furnace flames below,
It would not in a thousand years expire.
Nay! it would thrive, exult, expand, and grow,
For from its very birth it fed on fire.
Starve it? Yes, yes, that is the only way.
Give it no food, of glance, or word, or sigh;
No memories, even, of any bygone day;
No crumbs of vain regrets—so let it die.
MJ, CSC, L.E. Mila, Miss Lovisa
I needed to be told all of what ya’ll said. I knew it was a bad idea and certainly didn’t need any of the validation/enabling I was probably looking for.
L.E. pulling no punches. Except maybe a slap on the head. I needed that. I know I am not gonna get any sugar coated nonsense from you. And I appreciate that.
Miss Lovisa thank you for the song. We are visiting my wife’s father and step-mother starting Thursday through Sunday. So I am go to try a new church while we are out visiting them since I will miss service where I normally go. Kind of curious to see what that will be like. They have several churches in the town that they live in even though it is a small town. I called our pastor just this past Sunday to thank him for his sermon as it really spoke to me. I apologized for taking up his time but he said I could call him anytime.
CSC
Yeah it probably would be the wrong kind of trigger. I’d be hoping for “ok this is a milestone I have made it this far and I am done with this right now” when it might trigger all the “why’s, what if’s, how come’s, did she’s and why not’s”. And that’s a maelstrom I don’t need. Thank you for your insight.
Mila
I like your idea. I think I will take Momma to her favorite Mexican restaurant that night after work. It’s close by the house and has really good food. After the epidemic it was the first place we sat down and ate at in November 2021. Plus they have Negro Modello one of my favorite beers. And you can watch the gal make the fresh tortilla chips while you dine.
MJ my brother
Lots of good advice there. Most of it I should have seen coming for the time that we have come to know each other. Yeah Momma and I still work on it together. Yeah we still have things standing in the way of our resolving things completely. After a good amount of time without her name in the picture we recently had an upset that I didn’t see coming. It came out of left field. But it force me to recognize how this limerence has infected our lives. Have you ever tried to kill a bed bug infestation? Take it from me, nothing short of burning your house down kills those bastards.
You always being here for me helps more than you can know. You are a voice of reason with life experience I do not have. You are a warning sign for me as you have warned me of impending trouble when I take a wrong step. And I appreciate that brother.
And when you want to I’d like to hear about you and Lady Friend. Haha and as I typed that sentence Carpenter’s Close To You starts playing on my youtube mix. *wink wink* brother …. you know what you need to you. Use the “on the day you were born the angels got together and decided to create a dream come true”. Or is that too corny to ladies? 🙂 That’s one thing I am; corny.
Adam,
great idea with the Mexican restaurant. I‘m quite envious, there’s no good Mexican food to be had here!
Valentine’s Day was really difficult for me because I’m living a lie. My wife was her usual delusional self in pretending everything was normal. She made plans to have a nice dinner with a couple we haven’t hung out with in years. I was hoping to join my friends afterwards to catch a show at a bar literally three doors down the street, but she absolutely forbade me and threatened to stop paying for my car insurance (one of the bills she does pay). I decided to pick and choose my battles and gave up on it. As suspected, we did very little afterwards.
At the same time, I couldn’t stop thinking of my LO and wished I could spend Valentine’s Day with the person I really wanted to spend it with. I almost considered telling my LO how I felt but I thought better of it. I hate this. My wife has worn me down. I can’t stomach the fighting, drama, property damage and physical violence she would inflict upon me, so I have deferred any talk of separation and divorce once again. This coercion is terrible. Why does she insist on keeping me in a marriage I have no wish to be in? It is all so phoney when I know her “niceness” is only predicated on me being a good, compliant little boy and playing along with her farce that is pretending we still have anything resembling a normal marriage.
I have been avoiding my LO as much as possible. Even though we are “friends,” the relationship hurts because I obviously put far more into it than he does. I have gone about 5 days with no contact and thought I was doing pretty well.
Then, unfortunately, I had a very vivid dream about him last night, and it set me back tremendously. I hadn’t counted on being so disrupted while I slept.
Feeling very shaky this morning and rattled, even though nothing actually HAPPENED.
Dreaming about LO/xLO, or anyone in our past, is very normal, just our Unconscious “living its life”. Please accept and embrace this fact, then peace WILL follow.
I just vividly dreamt seeing and talking with xLO two nights ago after he relocated to another state for nearly 9 months… (tons of bad and good ones beforehand and afterwards….)
If you wish, you can read the blog and the chats of the members: https://livingwithlimerence.com/limerence-dreams/
Be peace with you! 🕊️
@Norma
Keep going, if you can, with your NC. The same happens to me – I get a dream, or a few, when I have been NC for a short time…I have come to see it as natural. Of course, it’s hard, and it’s painful, I know for sure! But, it might help to see it as your brain working itself out, without you having to invite it to do so. Sometimes, if I have a dream like that, I will visualize my brain creating new neural pathways, as if to say, “ok, I’m filing this away”…but before I do, let’s just run through it and note that it was important.
I feel dreams like that, if you let them be, can be about your mind cleaning itself – I have heard it said that some dreams are like mental hygiene…maybe if you view it that way, it will feel like a kind of progress.
I am amazed at you going NC. You were in such a state when you first wrote here…and I want to cheer you on for being so strong and giving that a try. It’s very hard, (personally I’ve relapsed like 3 times) but…it’s so important to know what NC can do, as a tool for you.
with care, CSC
To Snowphoenix:
Thank you for your kind reply . I will for sure check out the link. I didn’t know that dreaming about LOs was so common.
If one has not dreamt about one’s LE/crusher, one can’t be called limerent/curshed.
IMO, one way to defuse a shaky impact of dreams (in any direction) is to write them down like writing journal entries, as detailed and authentic as possible even if they’re very messy/blurry, illogical, magical, or nauseating… without adding any logically imagined or wished “facts”.…
Edit them grammatically…. After reading it over a couple of times, one may find one is reading a piece of someone else’s news.
After posting to you this morning, I fell back to sleep and had a vivid, “marathon” dream about a historical character from his autobiography; the images in the dream were ugly and disturbing.… I was an observer 👁️ (the observing mind), not a participant, in the dream.
I analysized in my OCD mind while taking a long walk what my unconscious was trying to tell me and eventually figured it out.… later, I was joyful that it was just such a telling dream (though disgusting) and that xLO was not in it at all….
I’ve dreamed about (un)known people and fictional characters all my life, and some members (never met any) from this site with unimaginable vivid details… it is a part of the Unconsious’ life, in limerence or not.
So there is NO reasons to be shaked by any kind of dreams — they’re a part of one’s SHADOW (based on Jungian theories).
To CSC:
Thank you for the reply. I imagine I will relapse multiple times before this is over. The dream shook me up very much. I felt such joy being with him. When I woke up, I thought it was real for about half a second.
Hi @Norma
Yes, from what I hear, relapsing from an involved LE does happen. It’s happening in my own LE right now. I just had a minor relapse (sent a small text) last night. Not worth it…not worth the anxious, and kind of queasy feeling I have today, I can tell you that!…all this yucky feeling, from just sending one small text. Yes, NC is very, very hard.
I wanted to share a video with you that I found helpful…it explains how NC can heal. I watched it today as a reminder of what I’m aiming for.
Person addiction is real – and the withdrawal can be complicated. It might be helpful to know what NC is doing within your mind, even as you feel you are going through hell.
I hope you’re doing ok today. It’s hard, I know.
oops @Norma
this was the link…duhhh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRVHpZMnXY0
To CSC:
Thank you for the link to the video. It made total sense, and I am glad I got to watch it.
TO CSC:
I did want to make a comment about the video you sent me. If I understood it correctly, the speaker (forgot her name, sorry) said it took her two years of No Contact to get over the person she was obsessed with.
That is disheartening. Obviously it doesn’t mean it would be two years for someone else, but I can’t go more than a week without running into my LO.
Norma
I have had all of 3 dreams of LO in the almost 3 years she’s been gone. I still remember 2 of them in detail and that was my brain sending me a message (both times) to let go and continue with NC. The last one I had back in 2023 (irrc) the message couldn’t have been any more blatant. *Watching LO walk away with her (then) gentleman friend and never looking back at me*
We are all here for you Norma. Keep on fighting. You are doing great.
To Adam:. I wish I had only had three dreams about LO in that period of time. I dream about him fairly often, and it shakes me up more than I want to admit.
Sorry to be so whiny. I just dreamed about LO again and woke up feeling very anxious. I am seven days with no contact and I have dreamed about him twice in three days.
We didn’t have an argument or anything, I just got sick of his lack of responsiveness to me. This is not about romantic feelings, it’s basic courtesy that is the issue.
I am just going to go do some slow breathing exercises. Thanks for listening. Everyone here has been so nice to me.
Norma,
Just out of curiosity, what are telling you?
Mine tended to have pretty direct messages. Dreams about LO #2 centered on things are long over between us and it’s finally time to let go.
Lesson: Not everyone who comes into your life is meant to stay there.
Dreams about LO #4 centered on I didn’t really mean anything to her and continuing to deal with her came with some potentially catastrophic consequences.
Lesson: Not everyone who comes into your life should be there at all and you’re playing with fire.
When I was actively in an LE or in therapy, I tended to have more dreams about my LOs. Once I came out the other side, they largely disappeared.
To LE:
I actually can’t remember the second dream at all, but the first one was super-weird. I dreamed that I was on a vacation at a Florida hotel. The laws of physics did not apply at this hotel. For example, I tried to put items in my suitcase, and they would come out of the suitcase and float around the room.
I locked my room door, and people walked in and out because the lock was completely ineffective.
I washed my hair and the shampoo would not come out, no matter how much water I used.
It was not just me. It was as if the entire hotel and everyone in it was trapped in some kind of Bermuda Triangle or something.
I called LO on the phone, in the dream, and he was so happy to hear from me. I was telling him how unpredictable and almost scary the hotel was, and that I was looking forward to coming home. He said he couldn’t wait to see me. Then I woke up.
My interpretation: Life is unpredictable and scary. I look to LO to help me make sense of it. In my dream world, he has all the answers. In real life, he is completely unprepared and unwilling to do this.
WHEREFORE?
Ella Wheeler Wilcox
Wherefore in dreams are sorrows borne anew,
A healed wound opened, or the past revived?
Last night in my deep sleep I dreamed of you;
Again the old love woke in me, and thrived
On looks of fire, and kisses, and sweet words
Like silver waters purling in a stream,
Or like the amorous melodies of birds:
A dream—a dream!
Again upon the glory of the scene
There settled that dread shadow of the cross
That, when hearts love too well, falls in between;
That warns them of impending woe and loss.
Again I saw you drifting from my life,
As barques are rudely parted in a stream;
Again my heart was torn with awful strife:
A dream—a dream!
Again the deep night settled on me there,
Alone I groped, and heard strange waters roll,
Lost in that blackness of supreme despair
That comes but once to any living soul.
Alone, afraid, I called your name aloud—
Mine eyes, unveiled, beheld white stars agleam,
And lo! awake, I cried, “Thank God, thank God!
A dream—a dream!”
*****
According to C. Jung —
Every image, every face, every word, every narrative in a dream only tell about some a part of one’s Unconscious, representing and symbolizing one’s repressed/unspeakable wishes, desires, pains, resentments, fears, sadness, resistance, fights, or/and despite.
Anything against laws of the nature in dreams is possible! They indicate or predict nothing about the dreamer’s reality, but paint/tell a dreamer’s current focused concerns or scattered, long lost memories in most unimaginable and bizarrest in Fellini’s shorts.
🐦🔥
Last evening (2/28), I randomly watched one episode of Netflix series “KAOS” about Olympia Gods disguised living among humans in present reality. Oak Nymph, Eurydice, met her tongueless mother in a church to complain about her pain — her lost love for her husband, Orpheus…. Then, I had this very strange dream —
I so unwillingly followed an enormous black woman, with frizzy hair and loud voice, into a huge Cathedral, she was going to marry me! Walking in the isle two or three yards behind her, I was softly mumbling to myself, “I’m not a Lesbian, I don’t want to marry you.” She did not even hear me. I was afraid of her, so dragging my feet towards the front altar of the quite empty Cathedral — I did not see any guests or priest.
Then, on the right side of Cathedral, I saw a tiny reddish Buddhist’s temple with an altar and some burning incense. There were a few male and female monks sitting on the floor meditating and a couple of nuns were walking around organizing stuff. So, I told the black woman that I decided to become a monk; she did not say anything but let me go and then disappeared. I then quickly walked over near the alter, and sat down on a floor cushion to meditate.
I went into my Vipassana meditation and quickly felt energy (in the form of warm current) moving inside my lying-down torso and feet (woke up a little). Then I was thinking, “This is so boring! I don’t want to spend the rest of my life meditating here! I want to love, just an ordinary love for a man!”
Then ET flashed into my head briefly; I thought I’d rather call back my love for him than staying here! I quietly stood up, ready to slip away from the Buddhist’s corner….
Before moving even one step, I woke up…. It’s a quite telling dream, isn’t it? 😏