This week’s YouTube video is all about how to tell when you’ve been limerent for too long:
Half the population of the world experience early romantic love as an altered mental state known as limerence.
You’ll know this state if you’ve ever been drawn to someone so powerfully that it felt overwhelming. You wanted them more than you’ve ever wanted anything.
Nothing else in life really compares to the extraordinary natural high of limerence. It really feels like you’re walking on air.
At least, at first.
But, highs that high often end with a crash. There’s a dark side to limerence. It can become an obsession.
In this video, I’ll show you seven signs that you’ve been in a state of limerence for too long, so that it’s turned toxic. And how to recover your emotional freedom.
1. Desire becomes craving
In the first flush of limerence euphoria, desire for the other person feels ecstatic.
Your whole state of mind is transformed.
Oh that energy that makes you “turbo” charged! It’s so pleasurable one feels on cloud nine! It lasted for a few weeks, maybe a month and a half. The world smiled at me and I smiled back at it… Everything was colorful and beautiful, I felt super joyful!
Nisor
That feeling makes you seek out the person that you are infatuated with— your limerent object—because it’s so rewarding.
The thrill of excitement that you feel when you are with them is irresistible. You want nothing more than to form an intimate bond.
They seem to offer the promise of bliss.
But, if you stay in this state for too long, that thrilling desire begins to change.
If there is uncertainty about the bond—maybe caused by barriers, or indecision, or because they’re acting unpredictably—desire transforms into craving.
You want them, but not because you are seeking reward, but because you need relief from the insistent, nagging craving.
I’m fighting my addiction to texting LO today, and doing OK, but man do I feel strung out. It’s hard to concentrate on tasks I’m working on.
Midlifer
You just feel repeated surges of wanting that spur you into checking their social media, or sending a text, or seeking them out.
I’ve blocked his social media, only to crave seeing his face and unblock him hours later. Nothing I do seems to lessen my feelings for him.
Tired
That transition is a sign that your dopamine reward system has become oversensitized.
The motivating drive has escalated out of control.
Wanting becomes a constant state, it’s not really goal-directed anymore. The delirious pleasure of connection has been replaced by an intrusive background hum of craving.
Reward-seeking becomes relief-seeking.
This transition often goes hand in hand with the second sign of toxic limerence.
2. A loss of self-control
Our brains have a highly sophisticated system for assessing rewards, understanding the wider implications of seeking that reward, and then intervening to override desire for hazardous rewards.
Unfortunately, that executive feedback system is weakened during long-term limerence.
The way that this feels is a weird combination of powerlessness and secret satisfaction—you know you can’t resist, but you don’t really care, because a part of you wants to fail. That’s what addiction is like.
A distant intellectual voice urges you to stop acting so recklessly, but in the moment you just, fundamentally, don’t care.
Your impulse control is suspended. All that matters is the longing.
“I think very rationally and take a long time to weigh decisions. So I do that and decide there is something I have to say ‘no’ to, for a host of excellent reasons. Then, I go to my Limerent object, she asks me about it, and I say ‘yes’. It’s especially annoying that she doesn’t have to insist at all, and no amount of convincing myself before seems to help.
Anon
It’s like the executive control part of your brain has been sedated.
Your mental CEO is on vacation, sipping pina coladas and laughing as you make a fool of yourself.
And in fact, that is pretty much exactly what has happened—in addiction, feedback from your prefrontal cortex to regulate the out-of-control wanting drive is desensitized.
When you’ve been limerent for too long your self-control is literally physiologically compromised.
3. Daydreams turn intrusive
Early on, thinking about the limerent object is lovely. Hours can be spent in reverie, daydreaming about being with them, remembering good times that you had together, fantasizing about the future.
Sadly, like most other positive aspects of limerence, this pleasure can sour.
Once you pass the tipping point into fixation those delightful daydreams can transform into intrusive thoughts.
From the moment you wake, thoughts of your limerent object break into your consciousness, wreck your concentration, and make it hard to focus on anything else.
I think about him when I wake up in the morning, when I go to bed at night and I have conversations with him in my head all day long, replaying or anticipating encounters that will not happen. Most of the time the thoughts are involuntary and exhausting…
Sierra
The experience shifts from seeking some second-hand bliss by imagining being with them, to insistent, distracting thoughts that you can’t control and that wear you down.
Sometimes, you don’t even get a break at night. Many limerents report having anxiety dreams about their limerent object that disturb their sleep too.
4. The highs are lower
Early on, a smile, a laugh, even just the contented company of your limerent object feels blissful.
It’s a lesson that you learn well: this person is a source of euphoria and I want more.
Unfortunately, those giddy thrills don’t last. The simple pleasures of being with them no longer trigger the same delight.
You build some tolerance.
The flirty hints and tantalizing hope are no longer giving you the same rush; you need stronger stuff.
At this point, limerents often start to escalate their boundary-pushing behaviours.
Jokes become more sexualised. Hints of romantic interest become more obvious.
It was like a bad movie. Literally the conversation stopped and silence fell just as I declared to LO ‘you should be careful what you promise, you know how dirty my mind is!’ Everyone at the table just stared at me, then laughed.
K.
It’s a bitter irony that as the “wanting” drive of dopamine sensitizes, it can also become uncoupled from the “liking” mechanisms in the reward centres of the brain.
So dopamine is still being released to motivate reward seeking, but it no longer causes the same pleasure response. Liking is deadened.
You anticipate elation, but you only get fleeting relief.
And that makes you escalate reward seeking, in a futile cycle that becomes a behavioural addiction.
Piling on the irony, the next sign of toxic limerence is that…
5. The lows are lower too
Early limerence comes with big mood swings.
The highs are so high but there is always a crash. Always pain afterwards. I just want to feel normal again but can’t untangle myself
A.
The romantic promise that they offer seems so amazing, that anything that seems to threaten the connection causes a corresponding spike of anxiety.
Now this is useful, from an evolutionary perspective, because it makes you seek them more ardently, which makes it more likely that you’ll bond and… well, mate.
Unfortunately, if limerence persists in a state of uncertainty for too long, the balance shifts and the anxiety begins to overpower any good vibes. And the intensity of the negative feelings increases.
Loss aversion is a very powerful psychological force. We feel much worse about losing something we have than we feel good about winning a new prize—in fact, Prospect Theory puts a number to this for economic risk at least: losing something feels about 2.25x as painful as gaining the same amount feels pleasurable.
Limerence imprints one person as the most desirable reward in your world.
So, the romantic promise of ecstatic union feels like it’s almost in your grasp, but now, it’s slipping away. Anxiety turns to panic.
The emotional rollercoaster of limerence switches from dizzying peaks and sudden dips, to disappointing bumps followed by long, queasy descents.
6. Withdrawal pains
As limerence rolls relentlessly on, the accumulating negative symptoms will eventually break through even the most determined attempts at idealisation.
Our suffering limerent feels more bad than good. It’s clearly got out of hand.
And there comes a point when they decide enough is enough, and resolve to free themselves. To break contact with their limerent object.
Unfortunately, addiction has another nasty trick to play at this point.
Withdrawal of the stimulus causes pain.
This is a sign of dependence.
Your brain has adapted to the state of addiction as the “new normal” and any deviation from that, for example by attempting to wean yourself off the source of addiction, feels deeply unpleasant.
Antireward systems in the brain get activated. Stress hormones spike.
These processes involve different neurotransmitters and different brain regions to the runaway excitation of dopamine release.
Now, the amygdala starts getting involved, and releases neuropeptides like corticotropin-releasing factor, and dynorphin, which cause negative reinforcement—so abstinence becomes aversive by suppressing pleasure responses and increasing anxiety.
So, you’re trapped.
The addiction is toxic, but escaping it hurts.
And that leads into the final sign…
7. Quality of life decreases
The end point for all of these processes is a state where life begins to feel pretty desolate.
My life now feels empty and I’m struggling to remember who I was before this obsession began and also if I’m honest don’t want to let go of the obsession, even after knowing how much damage it has done.
S.
I seemed to oscillate between intense longing and a sort of flat, defeated indifference. At that point I was sick and tired of being battered about by my feelings. I was completely wrung out and drained dry.
J.
This is when limerents can neglect other relationships in their lives, and neglect themselves.
The obsession disrupts appetite and sleep quality, intrusive thoughts become intolerable. It feels like a black cloud, a psychic burden that’s always with you.
This deterioration in quality of life can also be worsened by feelings of guilt or shame—especially if the limerent is already in a committed relationship and so is keeping their limerence a private and illicit secret.
So, obviously, this is the real low point.
What can be done to fix things?
How to fix it
Well, there’s only really one way out of this mess, and that’s knowingly, consciously accepting what has happened, and making peace with the fact that it’s going to hurt to break the habit.
It’s a sobering realisation, and it’s demoralising, for sure, but realism is the starting point on the route out of toxic limerence.
You’re addicted to someone, and you need to reverse the habits and behaviours that led you into that addiction.
You need to limit contact with your limerent object, but in a progressive way, so that you reduce your access to the source of addiction, but also don’t suffer the shock of going cold turkey.
You need to also summon your mental executive back from its holiday and train it to take charge of your “limerence recovery” project.
You need to deprogram yourself out of that altered state of mind.
You need to plot a path from where you are, to a better, more purposeful future.
I’ve already posted a version of this comment in the coffeehouse, but here is an even more fitting place to put it. so I’ll post it again. (I didn’t realise Dr. L had already published this week’s blog when I was hanging out in the coffeehouse).
I’ve just watched the YT video: “Crazy Dreams: 7 signs of toxic limerence (and how to fix it)”. (The subject of this blog entry).
First up, watch the video, people. (Or simply read this blog entry). The material is seriously good. Dr. L’s insights just keep getting sharper and sharper.
The video is also studded with jewel-like quotes from people who may have been members of LwL at some point, including … drumroll … Nisor! (Are you paying attention, Adam? You were good mates with the lovely Nisor). 😜
Bombshell insight: “Reward-seeking becomes relief-seeking”. I believe this is what past reader Beth was trying to say when she spoke about feeling like she needed her LO “on a cellular level”. (I.e. her initial desire for reward had turned into a need for relief aka craving).
Other bombshell insight: “Limerence imprints one person as the most desirable reward in your world.” Don’t we all know that feeling only too well?
In recent days, as is my wont, I’ve been keeping an eye on r/limerence, too. David/Shiverypeaks writes that limerence “is just supposed to be a vocabulary word for the kind of love that leads to a lovesickness”.
Full marks. in other words. to Limerent Emeritus, Jaideux, and Mila. I think they’re the only three readers I’m aware of who have consistently gotten the definition of limerence even somewhat close to correct. 😉
Mila, I hope you realise that LwL was actually designed (even expressly designed) with readers such as you and Beth in mind, so you should always feel welcome here. Also, I hope you’re not doing too badly these days. 🙂
So … am I the only person interested in reading blogs and watching videos? Or were Tom’s insights into limerence this week so alarmingly brilliant that the entire audience was rendered temporarily speechless? Has no one got anything thoughtful to add? Not even a sincere “Amen” or a polite “Thank you”? 🤔
Let me be the first to concede that Tom’s efforts this week are unusually brilliant even for him. I’m feeling a resurgence of envy for his writerly talents. But I don’t think we should let brilliance intimidate us. After all, the sole point of Tom being brilliant is to help other people. He’s not a peacock. He’s not showing off for the fun of it. And other people include … you guys … the LwL commentariat. 😉
Here’s the deal, people. LwL isn’t meant to be an echo chamber. LwL is a place where readers (1) ideally learn about limerence in general, and (2) deepen their own self-understanding through learning about limerence. What’s been happening lately is that people haven’t been learning about limerence and nor have people been deepening their own self-understanding. People have been far too busy defending their own brittle egos and sulking in the face of dissent.
There’s nothing wrong with readers going off to the sidelines to have quiet chats about something pressing. I always thought Mila and Bewitched did this in a respectful way. I don’t even have a problem with the support Adam, MJ, Serial, and Lovisa often give each other. However, if all readers at LwL do is go off to have quiet chats with like-minded people … guess what … that’s creating mini echo chambers by default. Also, when readers throw bizarre adult temper tantrums because another reader doesn’t wish to entertain their never-ending nonsense, that is also creating echo chambers by discouraging authentic engagement.
Marcia and Snow: in my humble opinion, you have both consistently made LwL an unpleasant environment for other readers. Some people now feel disinclined to participate because of your ongoing feats of brattiness and your sickening sense of entitlement. Please stop the unending displays of ego. Please stop wallowing in rage and self-pity. Your constant outbursts aren’t cute. Remember other readers are human beings with feelings, and that this blog is one that you share with many other readers.
Long story short for all readers: don’t engage with people if you don’t want honest feedback. You’re wasting your own time. You’re wasting other people’s time. You are being singularly disrespectful to everyone who contributes to LwL in good faith. (And yes, you can still have fun while contributing to LwL in good faith. Tom himself obviously is the master of this often-delicate balancing act). 😉
Another important point: Tom’s discouragement of echo chambers DOESN’T mean “fighting for the sake of fighting” or “debating for the sake of debating”. You’ve got to have something intelligent and interesting to say if you wish to disagree with other readers. Furthermore, keep in mind that not all readers are interested in debate. Debate is tiring to some people. Pointless debate is profoundly boring to all. For example, I naturally have a very gentle temperament. I’m not here to feed the egos of people who haven’t even done their basic limerence homework.
Finally, let’s be super-supportive toward people who do actually need support. If you’re happily in love, great. Be happily in love AND show empathy for people who are struggling. Are happiness and empathy mutually exclusive categories? Does bliss render one incapable of compassion? And let’s show appropriate respect to people who merit such respect because they’ve done their basic limerence homework e.g. readers such as Jaideux and Limerent Emeritus. 🙂
Nice concise summary. Signs 1 thru 6 are spot on. Seven was not true for me. As limerence tightened its grip on me I sought out other relationships as a coping and support mechanism and became closer to friends and family around me, especially my SO. I have witnessed here at LwL, in other people’s stories, that this is also true of some but certainly not true of others.
Although I don’t like the use of the word ‘toxic’ here ( I think it’s overused these days, as is ‘narc’ & many other words for click bait), the steps themselves describe my version fairly well. By now, in my case, I know all the phases. Been there and got the Tee shirt.
After reading other above comments, I felt obliged to also watch the video, although I don’t want to indulge in too much Lim content as I claw my way out !
I actually thought the video recommended at the end is very useful indeed, in terms of practical actions, especially what not to do. And I want to give it a shout out 📢
Dr L posted it a couple of weeks ago :-
“Don’t Cut Them Off. How to escape Limerence without wrecking your Life”
The content is :-
1.Get your story straight
2.Don’t disclose your feelings
3.Avoid grand gestures
4.Take charge of your emotions ( making peace with yourself)
5.Aim for the ending
https://youtu.be/owGRQm61T2U?si=1K4fjLWIhq6Yf8LA
At one point in my LE, I was going to make grand declarations of romance with a movie worthy script of thwarted love and overblown emotional goodbyes.
The kindly folks at LwL gave me a reality check, pointing out that you cannot know what LOs reaction will be nor the consequences of a disclosure. Importantly, you cannot rewind and undisclose (which this video describes well).
Of course there are no actual rules and I am not completely against disclosures (depending on circumstances, if barriers/ no barriers etc) but if anyone is thinking about it or what steps to actually take, then this video is a must-watch, to give the Limerent an informative perspective.
Also, to add that someone here on LwL did just cut their LO overnight. Extreme, but was deemed their only strategy to stop the limerence based on their previous experiences.
Furthermore, I do believe some folks can remain in contact / friendly with their LO post- limerence. As with most things that involve mending and healing there is not one single remedy, but the Dr’s prescription is the right one for the majority, most of the time. Just my humble view.
Great video. An uncannily accurate description of things I have felt over the last few years. I’m definitely on the road to recovery, in a slow and bumpy fashion. Thank you Dr L and keep up the great work.
Sammy – when other people are clearly having a chat between themselves (eg Marcia and Snow) you don’t need to read all the messages! If you have time for that, you need to get out more. Other than that, your comments are spot on.
I must say, everything on the list is spot-on. I am grateful that my LO is not particularly attentive or kindly. I seem to lack so much willpower.
Happily, LO’s overall irritability and flakiness are helping me tremendously.
His chronic poor treatment of me is accomplishing what I lack the strength to do on my own.
Another thought for Dr L. This video really has uncanny accuracy to what I’ve been feeling. But it’s a bit doom and gloom! What I would find helpful right now would be a “good news stories” video with lots of real-life examples of how people knew they were on the road to recovery, descriptions of turning points, and how it feels looking back. Obviously Dr L is the good news story we all aspire to, but there must be many other alumni who can help us on our way with encouraging words.
Maybe there’s already a video or blog post on that topic already, in which case, apologies.
This is a great idea. Recovery stories are inspiring and so helpful.
I am reading this post right smack in the middle of a “relief-seeking” episode. And it really sobered me up.
Toxic is EXACTLY what those signs are.
They are toxic yet my limerent brain is trying to throw a pity party and at the same time strong-arming me into thinking that surely LO is THE ONLY one who could appreciate or validate me – so reach out to him; just one line of text won’t hurt you.
Doesn’t that sound like a bona fide addict?
To Hopeful:
You bring up such a good point about needing and wanting LO to validate us.
I certainly don’t understand it. My LO claims he appreciates me, but his actions say otherwise.
Hi Norma, I speak for myself: I’ve come to realise that I have an innate need for approval especially from authoritative figures. And LO happened to be one of those perceived authoritative figures in my life. Maybe at that point in time, I wasn’t receiving much validation from people around me. But LO was there to provide it.
And it had somehow turn into a reward that my mind keeps coming back for. Especially at times of boredom, lows/highs in my life… such that I’m conditioned to keep on seeking relief from LO.
To Hopeful:
Again, you are spot-on. I look up to LO and want his approval.
The other night, he said to me, “Thank you for making my day!”
And without thinking, I blurted out, “I don’t even care if you’re lying!”
He laughed.
How pathetic am I?
I’m in a long term relationship but I fell for someone at work. It wasn’t anything like chasing a high and it wasn’t anything nervous or anxious. Quite the reverse, it was easy going even serene close companionship. Every time she flirted or escalated, I actually de-escalated. But I increasingly looked forward to any time we could spend together and so did she. And I started dreaming of being with her, living with her. It wasn’t intense. It was just lovely.
It was when she left the job that I went into a panic and felt I had to escalate things even though I didn’t know how to face my significant other. I needed to keep seeing her at the very least and she wanted to keep seeing me (at first). I went into a full blown “limerent episode”. What had been casual became a decision and being a decision it meant ultimately upturning my life and hers to be together. We met up a couple of times, neither of us declared anything. It was uncertainty and indecision that produced limerence not addiction. And by limerence I mean constantly thinking about her, constantly trying to see her again. I was obsessed, but if I had kept seeing her casually at work I would not have been obsessed. I was chasing big rewards, I was terrified of losing her out of my life.
She ended up cancelling on me and replying minimally to my messages, never initiating. Effectively going no contact on me. And I have to mirror this because anything else is just ridiculous and one sided. So it’s no contact. But I love her. Going through grief, breaking down crying at work and in the evenings and turning to alcohol. The grief has broken the crazy brain chemistry dopamine drive. I can live normally if very sadly now. But I still love her. I see that clearly. I cherish every moment we had together not because I am deluded by limerence but because it really was great to be with someone who it was easy to be with, on the same wavelength. and who appreciated me and inspired me.
Hello Leagrave
Welcome to the forum. Your story is lovely but also tragic. I can understand why there is a profound grief you carry with you now. There are many other Men (and Women) in this forum who have followed this similar route with a Colleague. Quite often these moments never turn out quite like we wanted them to. In limerence we go into the altered state of mind and live in a world in our heads, where everything with them will be euphoria and bliss.
Try to remember the choice she made was ultimately the better one for her. The sad period you are in right now is very hard. I myself have cried more than a million tears over my LO. The worst of it being for a good 6-9 months after I knew we would never be. It’s a sad period and I wonder sometimes if it will ever fully leave me. The Woman simply knocked the wind out of me when she smiled at me. Never initiating anything with her IS my biggest regret.
Hopefully you will be able to get your personal life back on track and focus your energies on your SO and what you share together. I wish you luck on this endeavor. I also hope others here see this and have some words for you too.
They have probably mirrored your situation way more than I have.
Thanks. It’s hard isn’t it.
Hi Leagrave,
Thanks for sharing your story here.
I’ll input more about your case eventually, but would like to ask you something for now – what’s your hunch on why she’s gone minimal-contact on you now?
We had two one on one meet ups in a coffee shop as friends. Fairly intimate but we were both in relationships and there was no escalation from either of us.
My guess is she realised that we were sliding into an emotional affair and put a stop to it. But not explicitly, she would come up with excuses, she would delay replies.
Hi Leagrave,
That makes total sense and was what I suspected you’d say.
All your circumstances sound pretty similar to my LE. The only bit that is very different is that I haven’t been forced to that next level like you, as she has not left my work. But I do wonder if similar would happen, as did to you, for similar reasons. Work kind of acts as an ‘excuse’ for these things continuing, and when we don’t have that, everyone has to face the reality more. Compared to you, I’ve had a lot more time to push through the stages of my LE, get used to the fact it’s never going to happen etc. (hasn’t made it go away but has dialled the noise in my head right down). So in a sense I have had time to prepare for when we no longer work together, and will have more time yet before it comes. But I have no idea how it would actually feel in the moment.
I understand if this is a very difficult time for you, and why. Shout if you’d like to chat or get any suggestions from me or others.
LaR
I’m going to reply here because I’m not getting the option on your other message…
I found that when we worked together that it was easy to be complacent. LO was forced out of her job by her aresehole boss. She actually tried to get another job with me working for the client (she was with the contractor). It wasn’t to be but it does show it wasn’t all in my mind.
As soon as you start seeing them outside work it becomes effort and effort means it’s a decision and you are forced to either escalate or accept distant friendship only occasionally seeing each other. It was that that created fixation for me. I felt forced to focus my mind.
I’m now facing the prospect of her being outside my life completely which is really tough.
If anybody does have advice for me I would love to hear it, but it seems the advice is no contact.
“but it seems the advice is no contact”
Well … that’s tricky, partly because she seems to have decided it for you at the moment.
It isn’t uncommon for there to be push-pull, or for the one who tries to distance to ‘circle back’ when they miss the attention. So if that happens, it will become more tricky to navigate what to do.
It depends on your objective. Assuming (?) you don’t want to escalate things, you have to ask which is more important – to end the limerence for your own sake, or to keep the friendship. I think it is pretty unlikely if not impossible to do both things at once (take it from one trapped in limbo through refusing to let a friendship go). If you want to end it, then NC is the best way.
The bit I’m less sure on is whether there could be a later stage of trying to resurrect a friendship once you have done that other work. Opinion on here has been divided about that. It depends – do you think being friends is something that could ever work for you, or is it ‘all or nothing’ in your head?
Many limerents on this site use friendship as an smokescreen to keep the limerent object in their life no matter the cost, so I think wr we each have to be honest with ourselves about that motive. I am as guilty of it as anyone. But I still have to work with the person daily, so have never been presented with an NC option.
Hi Leagrave. Sorry you are going thru this. Been there myself. I am nearly 4 years into my LE with a woman who works for me. Unfortunately I have to coexist with her so NC is not possible, but not a day goes by that I wish it was. As of now I practice a very strict form of LC that has helped quiet my LE and stabilized my emotions. I hold out hope now that one day the LC can turn into NC.
Many of our relationships in life have context. Work being probably the most pronounced. Once the work context ends then the relationship paradigm changes. Like you said, it now requires decision and effort and other emotions and she probably was not up for that so she pulled back.
I’m convinced NC is the right remedy. Right now NC seems unreasonable because you still carry hope of a relationship and are still in a limerent fog. But a day will come when you ultimately lose hope and you will just wish her out of your life. So take this opportunity for NC as a blessing and move on now and don’t try to hold on. It will hurt for a bit but it will ultimately lead to freedom sooner.
Agree with Speedwagon. This is actually a blessing. You are one of the lucky ones. Accept it and before you know it, after all the tears, or somewhere in the middle of them, peace will become yours again.
In response to Speedwagon.
Four years of limerence has got to be incredibly hard. My heart goes out to you.
I had 6 months of the crazy dopamine drive limerence and I’m pretty much out of it now. But that was 6 months of my life on hold. I struggled to get anything done at home or at work. If that went on and on indefinitely I would end up in a very strange place.
However before that I had two years of working with my LO and two years of developing a close but undefined companionship which was more either the stuff of friendship or the stuff of long term relationship but not really the stuff of longing for a whirlwind romance. It was pretty mellow but I hated it when we were apart for some reason. Lost without her.
There was a week a short while ago where I had convinced myself that I could contact LO after a few weeks pause and we could be friends again. No big expectations of romance or anything. Just occasionally seeing each other. During this week I was completely out of the obsession, my life returned to normal. But then I came to NC conclusions and I am going back into limerence again and that’s because it is driven by fear of losing the connection I have/had with her. For me it is attachment anxiety not person addiction. I am heartbroken and the that means I am thinking about her constantly again. Not that I am going to break NC. If she wants distance I have to respect that.
I don’t expect everyone to have the same experiences or draw the same conclusions. The person addiction model may well work for you.
There’s a stagist (happy) relationship model lust -> romance/limerence -> attachment/”real love”. For me limerence only appears after the third stage and only with adversity. It has happened twice in my life. Once with SO and once with LO.
Leagrave, one thing you haven’t talked about at all is your feelings for your SO. Are you basically in a happy relationship but distracted (like myself and many others here) or is the LE a sign that your relationship with your SO is over or in trouble? Is there work you can do on your relationship, either to strengthen it or end it, which may help?
In my experience, strengthening my marriage has definitely helped, but the limerence is an additional separate problem that needs dealing with too, using deprogramming techniques outlined on here by Dr L.
Have you read Smitten? It’s really good and really helpful.
Sorry for the delay. You have asked a big question that I don’t really have the answer to. Also if I talk about my relationship with my SO it is hard to not be one-sided.
First of all we are both neurodivergent as is LO (probably). We formed a close friendship at university about 32 years ago. All the same things I said about LO also apply. We were on the same wavelength, I developed this crazy limerence for her. For a good 20 to 25 years I was completely infatuated with her and that ended due to serious breakdowns in our relationship. It was never symmetrical, her feelings for me have always been less intense, less dramatic, but steadily there.
Our relationship can be characterised by my failings at life and for SO in particular (money, jobs, house upkeep) and her general negativity and sometimes overwhelmed rage towards me.
Over the last 10-15 years she has said she is ending it on several occasions. Sometimes with screaming rage. Sometimes screaming down the phone at me at work. But I knew these moments would pass. But I fell out of “in-love” because I was convinced it was coming to an end. I still cared for her, but the wild adoration went.
But I am giving you the worst here. Things have been improving over the last year. Last September I decided to leave her. Partly fueled by a desire to get together with LO, but also I realised if I were to get over LO I had to use that energy to escape the negativity and the sheer lack of energy of my relationship with SO. But on the day, I realised SO loved me in ways I didn’t understand and I was overwhelmed by a sense sentimentality for our relationship and the hurt I was causing her. I couldn’t do it. I just couldn’t. Things have improved greatly between us since, but from my point of view we’re better friends, I have lost the passion.
But it does mean that I am coming out of a LE which may have been torture, but it was at least vibrant, meaningful and life affirming. Now I am crashing out of that into a world of grey. And I miss my LO. She was brilliant, she made me feel seen and accepted. She’s a juggernaut of oddball positivity.
I really don’t want to be deprogrammed. Limerence is a lifeline. I need to keep the embers alive (at least as fantasy) to stave off growing post limerent depression. I failed to take control of my life. The only thing I don’t regret of the last two years is the limerent episode. It was what I needed.
“For me it is attachment anxiety not person addiction”
I’m not sure I see the difference.
To put it concretely, the difference is whether contact feeds it.
When I saw my LO every other day I was pretty stable. I wasn’t thinking about her all the time and whereas I loved our moments together, I didn’t feel I was chasing a high. When that came to an end and I had to work at seeing her, I became completely obsessed. My whole life became built around the need to see her again. One day she phoned me to arrange a meet up. This was the only dizzying high I experienced.
So lack of contact drives my limerence. Not contact.
I have been observing the articles and comments here for long enough to feel like I know some of the “characters” that regularly contribute their experiences, advice, etc. to this community. I will likely share my limerence story at some point, but don’t have the energy today.
Just want to give a shout out to Dr. L and how his approach to informing people about the brain mechanics and real life associations to limerence is hugely helpful to many (certainly to me).
When reading sign #2 (loss of self-control) I laughed out loud a couple of times at how stunningly accurate those paragraphs were for my experience. As I continue to try to move past my LE I think I have summoned my mental CEO back from the beach vacation, but only in a part-time hybrid role so far, with the intention of bringing them back full-time into the office at some point – we all know how that battle goes.
Cheers to everyone here!
I have had another relapse. What else is new?
So thankful for Dr. Tom and for the kindly people here who keep me going (you know who you are).
Too upset to say more now.
I think today is my one-year anniversary at LWL. Grateful for all the progress.
Oh hugs Norma! I hope this relapse is shorter than the previous one, and that they get shorter and easier each time.
Dear Cloud:
Thank you for the hug and the kind words.
Hoping you’re right.
ND:
WRT Relapse: If the relapses are less frequent and less intense, you’re making progress. They happen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYTinlS1hjk – “Pick Yourself Up” – Frank Sinatra
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYTinlS1hjk
To L.E. :
I haven’t heard that song in years. Thank you so much. That’s the kind of music my mom was listening to when I was little.
For some reason, it brought tears to my eyes.
Hey Norma, i’m so sorry to hear that.
Someone from my faith coined this when going through difficult seasons – “upward stumbling”. We might be stumbling but we are still making progress. Hugs!
To Hopeful:
I actually love that phrase. I am going to remember it.
In keeping with Hopeful’s lovely comment about “stumbling upward,” I am getting myself back on track after a nasty relapse last week.
L.E. is right. It was not as intense as previous times, and I have a better sense of how to pull myself back together.
Of course, LO helps me tremendously. I had just recovered from him recently getting angry with me and calling me “sensationalistic.” I was trying to explain to him about my girlfriend being in the hospital with heart failure. She inexplicably refuses to discuss her condition EVEN THOUGH SHE’S IN THE HOSPITAL.
I made a few attempts to get her to talk to me and then gave up. We switched to her favorite topics, politics and the Royal Family. I told LO about this, and he was critical of me, saying I am “too impetuous.” Huh? I thought I was just being a caring friend.
Every time he says something questionable, I am reminded of how he is not really much of a friend and how his moods and his comments are somewhat unpredictable. This helps me to snap out of my relapse. If that doesn’t do the trick, I remind myself of his many unkept promises, even though I would not classify them as formal “promises.” He says he’ll do something and then never does it. It’s not a signed contract, but he’s still extremely unreliable.
So I think I’m doing better. I just had another MRI on my liver yesterday and am nervously awaiting the results. Not even tempted to tell LO about it.
« Stumbling upwards » – love it!
(Sorry about the strange brackets instead of inverted commas – I’m having keyboard issues.)
I’m glad that you’re able to see progress in terms of relapses being shorter and less potent. This is good news and I hope you’re benefiting from the freedom.
I do feel as though I’m making progress too. When I don’t see LO I wonder what all the fuss is about. If I’m feeling down I notice my brain searching around for nice thoughts of him, but then my brain remembers that thinking of him won’t help me feel better. Previously it was very much a conscious effort to stop using limerence as a mood-boost, now it’s become more wired in.
When I see him I am still blinded by the glimmer and my rational brain goes AWOL. But afterwards I recover my senses more quickly than I used to, and fortunately I’m not seeing him as frequently at the moment.
Best of luck with the MRI.
To Cloud:
Thank you for your nice comments. Really glad the MRI is over (I am claustrophobic), but waiting for the results is stressful, also.
I hope that both of us can keep “stumbling upwards.”
Every day, little by little, moving forward. 🙂
To Serial:
Thank you for your ongoing encouragement.
I hope nobody minds me continuing with my train of thought. I have mentioned that my closest girlfriend has been in the hospital twice over the last two weeks. I know very little about what went on because she refuses to discuss it.
She called me last night from her car, so I deduced she’d been released from the hospital. She was in the hospital when I talked to her Saturday evening. I said, “Did you get released on Sunday?”
She snapped, “I don’t know! Who cares??” A surprising response given that Sunday was only two days prior. Also, why refuse to answer such simple questions? I then attempted to inquire about treatment she was receiving, and she irritably responded that she was not getting any. Then in the next breath she mentioned having to take meds, so I gently asked if the hospital doctors had sent her home with meds. Again, an angry retort. “Of course they did!” What are they? “I don’t know!! Who cares??!
I gave up after that. I have no SO and this lady is my closest girlfriend that I can usually talk to about anything. I feel very rattled by her reaction to me.
I switched the conversation to her favorite topics, and it actually didn’t go much better. She is very interested in the Nancy Guthrie kidnapping, so I talked about that. She is a cop and likes to talk about unsolved crimes. She actually started an argument with me over it, even though I am not involved and hold no strong opinions about any of it.
She has turned into someone I don’t know. I am trying to give her the grace and distance she needs to process whatever is going on, but I can’t seem to say anything right.
This is where LO would call me “too impetuous” and I would feel like slugging him.
I allow myself to answer even though I didn‘t write much here. Don’t take it personally. Your friend seems to have a hard time. You showed interest and she knows inside that you are there for her. It reminded me a little bit of my daughter. Every mood of her I have to bear which is quite difficult sometimes. But I don’t care because she only behaves like this in front of me because she knows I am there for her, I won‘t turn around, I bear it because I know and love her and when she is better she will explain what troubled her and she will be sorry for her behaviour towards me..
To Laloba:
Thank you for the response. This lady does in fact remind me of my three adult daughters, all of whom have behaved this way.
I was thinking about this very thing last night when I was struggling to keep our conversation afloat.
Are there any studies that show a pattern of increased tolerance from exposure to the highs of limerence?