At various times over the years, I’ve written about the difficulties presented by becoming limerent for certain types of people. The dodgy LOs. The characters that make it hard to get over a limerence episode.
This idea might seem at odds with the central philosophy for recovery here at LwL that limerence is happening in your head, that we have to take responsibility for our own choices, and that no-one ever got over unwanted limerence by blaming their limerent object.
That’s all true, but it’s also undeniable that the difficulty of the personal struggle that a recovering limerent must go through will depend on the behaviour of the LO. If they do not welcome your romantic interest it will be easier to detach than if they like the fact that you are besotted with them. Some limerent episodes are just more sticky.
It’s worth recognising this dynamic between limerent and limerent object, because it helps make sense of your own limerent tendencies and triggers, and also predicts whether a longer-term romantic relationship that begins in limerence has any chance of success.
Understanding your own limerence triggers is critical for making good decisions about your romantic future. Some cues will be positive, some negative and some neutral when it comes to the factors that determine a good relationship.
If you are attracted by neutral cues like deep brown eyes, a sarcastic sense of humour, or a good singing voice, it’s perfectly possible that an LO could be either good or dodgy – you wouldn’t expect any obvious correlation between the strength of the glimmer and relationship quality.
Some triggers – like a compassionate nature, generosity, or emotional stability – would be positive predictors of relationship success (although individual outcomes will vary, of course).
However, if you consistently find yourself feeling the glimmer for dodgy LOs, then the prospect of a lasting, healthy relationship emerging from initial limerence is considerably reduced. You are unfortunately attracted to wrong’uns, and the stirrings of the limerent passions are more of a warning of danger than a prelude to joy.
Who then are the archetypal “dodgy LOs”? Well, I’ve given lots of examples in the past, scattered around the blog, but here is a nice orderly list with links to more detail.
The Top ten types of LO to be wary of:
1. Narcissists
The obvious first choice. LOs who like the attention, want to keep you hooked, manipulate your emotions and enjoy your devoted infatuation. They will resist all your attempts to disengage. They will likely “circle back” after long periods of disinterest to see if they can rekindle your desire and hope. They are in it for themselves.
2. Players of games
Likely some overlap with the narcissists (who tend to enjoy games), but more broadly, anyone who takes pleasure from provocative banter, boundary-pushing, negging, flirting, or shit-testing is going to be trouble. People who hide their true intentions or beliefs behind layers of artifice are difficult to know (and sometimes don’t even really know themselves).
3. Unavailable LOs
Less about their personality, and more about circumstances, but just as volatile for a limerent to cope with. If you are drawn to people because they are unavailable – either emotionally or practically – then the glimmer will be a curse. Trying to bond with someone who is aloof, married or absent for long periods is like trying to build on foundations of sand.
4. Forbidden fruit
The most transgressive of the unavailable LOs. These are the people who are out-of-bounds. The married LO who proposes an affair. The authority figure who might compromise their integrity. The straight guy who might be tempted into a bi-curious dalliance. If the excitement of disobedience is part of the thrill, it’s not going to transform into a lasting, authentic bond.
5. Tortured souls
The damsel in distress is a sexed archetype, but the desire to save is more universal. The bad boy or girl is another manifestation of a rescue fantasy. Seeing someone lost, damaged by fate, or struggling to cope can trigger a powerful limerent response. There’s nothing so alluring as a damaged soul you’re sure you can fix. Sometimes, you might succeed. More commonly, you get caught up in the whirlwind of their chaotic life.
6. Indecisive LOs
Hope and uncertainty keep the limerent fires burning. Nothing creates uncertainty like mixed messages. If your LO is indecisive – sometimes reaching out, sometimes pulling back – and fails to commit, you get caught in the agony of limerence limbo.
7. Jealous LOs
OK, they may not want you, but they also don’t want you going off and finding someone new.
8. Limerence sensors
I proposed the idea of “limerence sensors” in a post about feeling “led on” by a limerent object. Sensors are people who especially receptive to limerent interest and respond by mirroring it. They instinctively reciprocate, because the feeling that they’ve inspired love in someone is intoxicating for them in the same way that their company is intoxicating for the limerent. Both are unconsciously drawing an emotional high from each other.
9. Dark empaths
Even worse than people who are just highly attuned to sensing limerent interest are the personality disordered “dark empaths” who can understand and manipulate others emotions while feeling nothing themselves. Becoming limerent for such a person gifts them the power to play with your fate for their own ends. Grim stuff.
10. The impossible ideal
Finally, a more upbeat, if equally hard to escape scenario: the ideal LO. First love often casts a long shadow over future relationships. So does “the one that got away”. An LO who played a formative role in the development of your romantic sensibilities will always retain a fearsome potency.
So there you have it: a bottom-ten list of dodgy LOs to avoid, if possible.
Sadly, that probably won’t be protection enough. Even Good LOs can be hard to escape.
Limerence, man.
What a ride.
Such a great topic! I enjoyed the pictorial selection, as always. 🙂
I think my LO was a combination of three dodgy LO types for me:
2. Player of Games
4. Forbidden Fruit (He was “the forbidden fruit”; I was just “the fruit” I guess?). 😆😆😆
10. The Impossible Ideal (Or the **unenjoyed ideal** to be precise, meaning he got to stay an ideal forever in my mind. Well played, buddy. Well-played). 🙄
In terms of personality, he was very playful. Honestly, I think that’s what I liked about him. I found him refreshing. I don’t think I’d ever met such a playful male before. His playfulness kind of changed my understanding of what a male could be. I didn’t know males could be that playful until I met “Mr Most Playful One”.
Some student in my tenth-grade Maths class bragged about reading the Bible cover-to-cover. LO’s cheeky reply: “And did it do you any good?” 🙄
Senior Graphics teacher jokingly asked LO who the class rebels were. With a look of pure disgust, LO pointed me out: “He is, sir.” 😊
Same Graphics teacher asked LO whether the colour of LO’s newly-dyed hair was LO’s real hair colour. LO **lying through his teeth**: “Um … yeah, mate!” 😲
I don’t believe for a second my LO ever desired me physically. However, I DO think he was pleased he could elicit the first flutters of romantic longing in me (and hordes of other people, unfortunately). I told him once in chapel his sideburns looked distinguished. He giggled in response. By this stage, we were in grade twelve and he was the size of a full-grown man. I’d never heard a full-grown man giggle before. Nor have I ever competed so hard for a particular seat in chapel. Yet that day I was determined that I was going to sit next to him and make a spectacle of myself. You can’t say I’m not a glutton for punishment! 😜
In hindsight, I think he was “play-flirting” with me – something I now do all the time with my buddies who understand what play-flirting is. I think I might have misunderstood my LO’s “play-flirting” as real flirting, due to youth and naivety and sheer pig-headedness. But my LO definitely knew what real flirting was, because he flirted successfully with girls all the time. He had quite the female following. Apparently, half the girls in my eighth-grade Science class were passing nasty notes to each other: “Stay away from him! He’s mine!” 🙄🤣
It’s ironic that the “girl” who was most into him and who forgave him all his flaws wasn’t a girl at all… 😁
The girls in my class also said he would wear something like a white tuxedo to our school formal because he was so arrogant and only arrogant dudes wear white. Guess who turned up in a white tuxedo? (And yes, he looked breathtaking. To this day, I can’t walk past a shop with men’s suits in the window without thinking of him. Happily, those thoughts don’t cause me pain anymore. But it was touch-and-go for a while. I thought the flame of desire would never burn itself out). 🙂
Sammy
At some point I would think all LO’s get that way. Depending how discreet the limerent can remain about their feelings, almost all LO’s are going to notice the attention. Maybe the limerent gets bolder. Maybe the limerent “looses his mind” for that smile of hers. Or in your case his antics. So at a point you either consciously or unconsciously (depending on how honest the limerent is with him/herself) do all you can to elicit that “thing” you want from the LO. Mine was to make her smile or laugh because of her difficult personal life and stressful work life. So yes, like you, if that made me have to make a spectacle of myself I would gladly do it.
I don’t think I know a single thing about flirting, but I do know that I have been told that my manners and chivalrous way of dealing with women can sometimes come off to some as flirting. I didn’t know I lived in a country where treating a woman with dignity is flirting, but apparently so.
@Adam.
“So yes, like you, if that made me have to make a spectacle of myself I would gladly do it.”
I think if a limerent is single and an LO is single, and the limerent decides to “shoot their shot”, even though there is nothing morally untoward about the situation, the average limerent will make a complete spectacle of himself/herself, due to inability to act like a normal human being around LO. (The limerent gets too excited around LO, and misses any shot they choose to shoot). 😆
“I don’t think I know a single thing about flirting, but I do know that I have been told that my manners and chivalrous way of dealing with women can sometimes come off to some as flirting. I didn’t know I lived in a country where treating a woman with dignity is flirting, but apparently so.”
I think gay men understand the concept of “play-flirting” a lot better than straight men, because “play-flirting” is the unofficial currency of the gay social world and forms the basis of the aesthetic known as “camp”.
Here are two (almost entirely wholesome) examples of me play-flirting with my gay male friends. I’ve become rather good at play-flirting in recent years. My LO taught me well.
Gay Friend One: **Sits quietly by himself, playing with his phone**.
Sammy: **Marches up to gay friend, places hand on middle of gay friend’s back, speaks in a highly-theatrical tone indicating shock**. “Wow! Still a beauty! Still!”
Gay Friend One: **Continues to stare at phone, avoid eye contact, bursts into nervous laughter**. “Hello to you too Sammy.”
Sammy: “When are you going to give me the number of your plastic surgeon?”
Gay Friend One: “When are you going to stop using my gym membership?”
Sammy: “I’m thinking of a word. The word rhymes with ‘snitch’, but it isn’t spelled with ‘s’ but with some other letter of the alphabet.”
Gay Friend One: “Hey, did you just call me a witch?”
Sammy: **Narrows eyes. Thinks hard for a moment**. “Close enough.”
Gay Friend One: “Right back at you, buddy.”
Gay Friend Two: **Silently getting dressed in locker room.”
Sammy: **Gets dressed next to gay friend two because our lockers are located right next to each other’s. Talks in a voice that again indicates pure shock**. “Oh my God! You look so much better in clothes!”
Gay Friend Two: **Laughs. Launches into a three-hour-long speech about how he agrees with me, and my observations are very astute. He DOES actually look better in clothes. Oh yes, indeed-y. It’s the symmetry of this and the ratio of that. Then he pivots into a strange one-man philosophical meditation about how people never look the same when you encounter them in unfamiliar settings. Every man in the locker room has stopped changing at this point and is listening in to our conversation, gobsmacked**.
Sammy: “Oh. Sorry I asked. Have a good night, mate.”
Six days latter, Gay Friend Two turns up at the cafe where I eat almost daily. I have literally NEVER seen this man in my home city before, but here he is. Is he stalking me? No. He’s just in town on business.
Gay Friend Two: **Dressed to the nines in an expensive suit. He’s clearly a high-powered lawyer or something. Last time I saw him, he looked like the janitor. He sees me, recognises me, and nods at me while sweeping in through the cafe door**. “You were right! I DO look better in clothes!”
Sammy: **Stares in disbelief. Says nothing. Sips coffee quietly and pretends to be invisible**.
Gay Friend Two: “Sweeps back out the cafe door, lovingly flourishes his briefcase in my face**. “I’m a man of many talents.”
Sammy: **Feeling guilty, because last time I spoke to this man, I treated him like an intellectually-challenged person, because it is just my nature to treat everyone like world-class dum-dums**. “That’s nice. You’re obviously a jolly important person. Do you require me to like, um, curtsey to you now or something? Or will a bitchy little nod of the head suffice?”
This is an example of me play-flirting with a non-gay friend.
Sammy: **In the Swiss deli, ordering lunch**. “And I’ll have two bananas please. Did they come from someone’s backyard?”
Handsome guy behind counter: **Eyes soften. Face lights up in an indulgent smile**. “Um, no. Salt and pepper?”
Sammy: “Salt and pepper? With my two bananas? Sure! Why not?”
Handsome guy behind counter: “With your toasted sandwich.”
Sammy: “Oh, I knew that. Why does everyone keep treating me like I’m autistic? I mean, I am obviously autistic, but that’s hardly the point…”
Handsome guy behind counter: “Sammy, please get out before I have my sister-in-law – who is a retired policewoman – escort you out.”
Sammy: “If I buy three bananas, will you let me stay?”
Handsome guy behind counter: “Out! Out! Out!”
Sammy: “Jeez. You don’t have to yell at me.”
Handsome guy behind counter: “Can I help you, madam? You’d like three croissants and six slices of Jarlsberg cheese? Very good. Sammy, what are you doing back inside? Didn’t I tell you to get out?”
Sammy: “I **cough, cough, cough** forgot my two bananas.”
If anyone ever accuses me of flirting, either sincerely or insincerely, I categorically deny it. I can’t help it that I’m just a naturally bubbly and interesting person. As I see it, the onus is on the rest of humanity to learn how to appreciate me and all the wonderful gifts I bring to the table. 😉
I love it! If I knew you in person, Sammy, I’d probably be play-flirting with you all the time. 🙂
Sammy
Some time in my younger years (I think early 30’s) an older man started flirting with me. Because I am completely oblivious I had no Idea that’s what he was doing. I thought he was just being friendly and so I returned the friendliness. Until it came to a head and he asked me if I would met him for drinks. And somehow I knew it wasn’t meeting up at Applebee’s to down beers and watch football. So I told him I was quite flattered but that I was married. I didn’t say to a man or woman, just that I was married. He was probably my age now late 40’s early 50’s. Not gonna lie Sammy, never been more flattered in my life. I cannot fathom how some heterosexual guys would be offended or outraged at getting hit on by a man. A compliment is a compliment. I gave my wife grief about it for a long time. “Babe even the men are after me.” lol But I think that you are right about the flirting. I don’t think we know what the hell we are doing when it comes to flirting when it comes to women. I know she could turn me into a 15 year old middle schooler talking to a girl for the first time.
This feels like an attempt to somehow blame the limerent object. The person in limerence has to take 100% ownership of the issue. It does not matter what the object does. We need to own our feelings and actions. We are responsible for our feelings in this case. We are not in a relationship with these people. It is not fair to imply they are responsible in any way. This article seems to fold back on itself by acknowledging this and then doing a “yeah but”.
Hi Typhoon,
while you are of course right in that it’s our responsibility alone, this is an insight that started to have an impact only late in an LE, when I was able to stick my head out of the water for a breath, so to say. I knew it to be true before, but was still swayed here and there by LO behavior without seeming to be able to stop it.
These big truths are a fine and important thing to know, but me, I couldn’t just tell myself this and suddenly be transformed to letting LO behavior pass me by and concentrate to work on myself.
This was gained by small steps, and yes, I have to say, it helps enormously if the LO is behaving in a decent way, not playing games etc. This is simply true, too. In that state of mind we cannot help reacting. It’s not that the LO is to blame, it’s just that some LOs are easier and more helping.
But since we don’t „choose“ them, I guess, it’s anyway only a mind play to categorize them. Maybe it helps people to recognize what kind of person they fall limerent for and what that shows about themselves.
@Mila.
Mila, my dear, what have I told you in the past about not feeding the trolls? You know it only encourages them to become more trollish… 😆😆 (No, I’m just kidding. I understand what both you and Typhoon are trying to say. It’s the curse of the INFJ – being able to understand and empathise with everyone’s point of view). 🙏
I never blamed my LO for my limerence and to this day I couldn’t tell you whether he was a good person, a bad person, or a morally indifferent person. I actually no longer care what the answer to that question is. All I can say with confidence is that he – for a period of time – was a somewhat appealing person (to me). Marginally more appealing than the other people in my life, anyhow… 😜
I couldn’t pull myself out of limerence even if I wanted to because I didn’t even know I was experiencing limerence. I was just having massive mood swings and a lot of random somatic symptoms and neither I nor anyone else in my life (including multiple medical professionals) could come up with some adequate explanation.
Also, I didn’t “feel obsessed”. I felt constantly shifting, rapidly changing moods and emotions. I felt a thousand different things at once. Limerence can be a highly disorientating experience. I felt like I was on a rollercoaster, but I couldn’t see who might have pushed the start button on the rollercoaster. (I found out about my limerence/LO through tireless self-analysis “after the fact”).
Being young and inexperienced, I was also a bit confused in general about the difference between “friendship” and “romantic love”, and I did not know how to categorise my feelings for LO. I certainly didn’t come from a family renowned for its emotional intelligence.
“Idol worship” and “deep admiration” were perhaps the two terms that came closest to capturing what I thought I felt. The fact my LO was a member of the same sex complicated matters profoundly. Because he was a fellow male, and because he never seemed to have an issue with me, I didn’t assume my feelings for him were romantic.
I grew up in an insular religious culture where two persons of the same sex, by virtue of being two persons of the same sex, by definition couldn’t fall in love. Romance was assumed to be always heterosexual in nature. Romantic love between two members of the same sex was seen as a logical impossibility. Nobody believed it could happen. The assumption wasn’t “being gay is sinful”; the assumption was “persons who love the same sex romantically quite simply don’t exist”. Romantic love for another male = impossible.
Recently, however, I’ve found this great checklist which explains (historically, in the Western tradition) what has been considered emotions deriving from romantic love (i.e. the human sex instinct) and not from mere platonic friendship. The symptoms are six:
(1) Jealousy
(2) Obsession
(3) Fear of Abandonment
(4) Tears
(5) Sighs
(6) Rapture
But even this list is contentious because in the Victorian period, prudish scholars tried to sanitise many literary texts by insisting the above symptoms could apply to BOTH close friendships and romance. Also, historically, in the Western world, women have been given permission to have a much larger emotional range than men. Plus, during certain periods, women were assumed to be innocent and to have no independent libidinal impulses of their own.
Hence, a woman living in the Victorian period could be madly in love with a man (or another woman) and never come to the conscious awareness that what she was experiencing was romantic love. Victorian men too could live in blissful ignorance of the meaning of their own desires, provided they never engaged in physical actions that were illegal at the time. Only the twentieth century (post-Freud) desperately tried to push sex and sexuality out of the closet.
I grew up in an extremely small, inward-looking family that didn’t have much contact with the outside world. Books and TV were heavily censored. Educational materials came from exclusively Christian sources. The values I grew up under were my grandmother’s values (enforced by my mother, who was/is a force of nature) and my grandmother’s values were handed down unchanged from my great-grandmother. Quite frankly, all three women were still living in the Victorian era well into the late 1990s.
I wasn’t even allowed to read illustrated children’s books from the Christian bookshop about Christian missionaries saving souls in South America because apparently the “natives” weren’t wearing enough clothes – not that anyone could see anything, anyway. 🙄😆
Sammy,
It‘s a human wish to categorize everything, quite understandable and helpful, but I think some things just refuse to be categorized, like love. Romantic, platonic, same sex, of course one can name characteristics of a certain kind of love, but isn’t it always a very individual mixture, depending on who you are, what your experiences and background, your needs and desires are.
I remember admiring girls in my school class back when I was about 10,11, I had a kind of obsession on them without any sexual drive, but still I admired their physique, and had big crushes on them, while boys didn’t interest me. I never got the idea that I might be lesbian, and I am not, in the sense that I’m sexually attracted mainly by men, but I can feel that it‘s all flowing somehow, friendship can be as intense and painful and provoke jealousy and „sighs“ without having a sexual component . Fear of abandonment is a kind of anxiety that is surely not bound to romantic love.
By the way, I pondered about the word „rapture“, if I translate it rightly and if I ever experienced it😂
I remember eating a dessert in Italy that absolutely put me into a rapturous state.
These are the articles that least resonate with me. Because I can’t blame my LO’s for being anything else except unavailable, and that’s not really a fault. In an ideal world they might have been more forthcoming about their unavailability, but can I really expect them to be so brave with a stranger? I hope they at least are forthright with the ones they are close to. And who doesn’t enjoy reveling in the attention for awhile? I don’t think that makes anyone a narcissist – very few are.
I agree with Sammy – I couldn’t tell you what motivated my LO’s and I don’t really care either.
(And “I certainly didn’t come from a family renowned for its emotional intelligence.” Haha, I love that! I’m going to start using it.)
I know I myself can be a game-player, just because I enjoy the flirting and the chase. So if LO’s play games it’s usually because I enticed them to. So yes, I take the blame for everything with my LO’s.
My rLO is a mix of three types appearing in the following order —
Sensor
Tortured Soul
Forbidden Fruit
I sensed and saw them clearly almost four years ago, but still could not get out the forceful LE, which made me even willing to go down further in the bond. But Athena was just more powerful than my estimation, and sustained me above the water.
The disastrous change of job situation nailed the unthinkable, long-fermented decision to disclose, which, along with COO trip and the powerful dream, “suddenly” lifted me out of the aged swamp of cptsd. Of course the gradual transferring of rLO to pLO has takenn place for years, painfully, through absolutely scary, “naked” psychological monologues — essentially an autobiographic pieces to/for my Self, my suffering “soul”.
However, those written monologues landed not just in the journal books but in rLO’s email or social media box in real time… rLO clearly knew, enjoyed the silent “white knight” role I pushed him to play — just sitting back passively listening (refused to respond from the first to last day!). He learned about pLO’s existence and its growth, first resented but eventually accepted seemingly with calmness. The “friendship” was totally lopsided — he to me a confidante, I to him a chitchat colleague friend, then finally a limerent to a limrence object (I gave him brief information on limerence based on Tennov and DrL, I’m sure he has done his own research on it since the disclosure).
I still don’t think I can claim that this gigantic LE (compared to the previous “tiny” ones) is completely over, but my clarity of it, the new working situation, the feverish engagement in poetry reading and scribbling, and the verbal interactions with you ghosts, have reduced all my LE pains almost to zero, except some deep, a bit tearing sighs occasionally in the deep night — why rLO couldn’t be the same as pLO❓
Without cptsd subconsciously sitting on my neck for all my life, self-confidence, self-validation, imagination, creativity, joy and Apape are almost overwhelming in me nowadays, when I eat well, sleep enough, exercise regularly, and practice Stoic mental disciplines….
The future is very unknown to me, but for now I’m quite content for my progress.
Typo: willing to go down in the pond. (Not bond, there was no bond of any clear kind…)
“I proposed the idea of “limerence sensors” in a post about feeling led on by a limerent object. Sensors are people who especially receptive to limerent interest and respond by mirroring it. — Dr L
How does this mirroring work? I see (on LO’s face) my own limerent interest in HIM as my LO❓and he sees (on my face) his own limerent interest in MY LE affection for him, but NOT in ME as a person/LO❓ Is it why I always felt that I was seeing something familiar (from the moment of Glimmer) on his face — a part of myself? Why such a “mysterious” projection in my brain❓
But still why my mind could not clearly see/remember his actual face (always this blurry Iconic image) even physically encountering him every week for 7 years?? If I see the pictures or video clips of him lecturing, I feel it’s someone else, almost a total stranger. Isn’t it very bizarre❓
Both platonic LO 1&7 remain looking enigmatic in my head (probably until my doom’s/tomb’s day), but not LO 4 who became SO.
I know ‘mirroring’ with a different meaning, like mimicry of actions and gestures. So if you’re with an LO and you pick up your coffee with your right hand, so do they, or if you play with your hair, so do they. Or if LO can often correctly finish L’s sentences, maybe.
It might also work with facial expressions, eg a smile is mirrored by a smile, or a furrowed brow with a furrowed brow. Interesting to wonder if the two of you are in tune that much, if ‘your face’ does end up on ‘their face’ like you said …
I am not sure if DrL’s meaning of “Sensor” is different from the ‘Sensor’ (S) vs ‘Intuitive’ (N) dimension of the Myers Briggs. I think those LOs who are an S on that will be more likely to sense their limerent’s feelings than the Ns would be.
@LaR
I get what you mean in mimicry of actions, but I don’t think it was in my case.
I’m not familiar with Myers Briggs system, and in general ignore it! No evolving human being can/should be defined in a “personality box”; it’s so mind/soul limiting/restricting (only 16 types for 8 billion people). We all have potentials to dig out our buried talents and grow in directions we wish.
I went to several LC/NC, but all failed. It’s was extremely hard to walk away from a face on which you saw a piece of “yourself” — perhaps a chemical altered state of sense. I felt I was “abandoning” myself!
The more enigmatic was that whatever I sensed about/in LO was “accurate”, proved in months or years (I did not actively test them, but passively waited to see — fatalistic)🫣
I’m so glad that DrL has defined Sensor concept, which fits my LO most; otherwise, I’d have continued unfairly mistaking him for a Narc, which would hurt my ego more (in poor judgment).
Well, the job change in my case was the only way to go a total NC and get out of the exit of LE.
When I first began reading this, I thought in my case LO was more of the Narcissist type with a touch of
Unavailable. Because it seemed like she desired the attention, all while keeping herself within a boundary. Because she has a Man in her life at some level but I still don’t believe they are exclusive. It’s probably the way she wants it. The younger generation sees relationships way different nowadays than when I was her age. It seems trendy to have someone, but not to really have all of them entirely. At least thats a lot of the crap I see on Social Media. Guess I’m just old fashioned and don’t get it but I’m trying to figure out this new-age dating.
Reading down the list, I think LO is more of a Sensor to most likely a Dark Empath. Sensor because of the way she had a tendency to lock eyes with me way more often than once or twice. Mirroring my stares, I feel like was maybe caution on her part but I still don’t get why it seemed to happen all the time. It was like gas on a fire to my limerence when she stared at me like that. Sometimes seeming so surprised and other times aloof because it was a blank stare. So weird, awkward and yet so damn hot to me.. A dopamine rush that shot right through me and excited me in ways I never saw coming. Immediately I understood completely what you hear about in a lot of Love songs. About seeing forever in your Lovers eyes. I saw into an Ocean in LOs eyes and it went on forever. That’s never happened to me with anyone else ever, before her.
So that’s why I have ended up in limbo believing she is a Dark Empath. She is probably just a Flake that knows she hooked me in like a Fish. Once she knew she had me, I feel like the staring became a game to her. I think she enjoyed the attention and it may have given her a feeling of empowerment. Or just enjoying the feeling of manipulating me into thinking there is something going to possibly happen, but in reality there are no feelings at all on her part.. It is dark and very grim.
Very creul too, since I banked every shred of good hope I ever could have on another human being, only to have it washed away like a Tsunami. I’ll say till my dying breath, I was never more depressed and sad in life, than I was once I knew LO felt nothing for me. It still makes me sad.
Thankfully though I met Lady Friend who has been nothing but a Wave of refreshment. However due to my limerent tendencies and inability to find the right type of opposite sex person to connect with, I think she’s pulled me out of the mud, only to help wash me off in the mud-puddle.
If I had to assign her a Dodgy type, I think she falls into the Indecisive category. She’s fantastic at sending a mixed signals and even better at failing to commit. But I’m still crazy about her.. Go figure..
3 cheers for MJ. Can’t win for losing..
So yes I will gladly accept a “Limmy” award. For Limerent of the year..
(As Limerent Emeritus put it,
The “Limmy” is a small statuette resembling Rodin’s “The Thinker” sitting on top of the word “Huh?”)
My LO made the top of the list!
Oooh is this a bingo?… No? Damn.
So about the sensors I went to read your initial post and there is probably people like that but I don’t think you’re describing mirroring. You tell about people attracted to feeling loved and reacting by instinctively adapting their behavior to seek this gratification.
Mirroring is what happen when you enter a room full of people laughing and you start laughing before asking what’s funny. Its a faster emotional change than your own emotions and does not really depend on what you need emotionally (like a reflex that doesn’t really go to your brain). It’s not reacting to something you feel from your interlocutor it’s just feeling the same thing you perceive from them. Also there is no reason only the high would be mirrored.
Let’s say you go your meetings with LO incredibly happy to see them, but then you say something and they say something neutral in response and nothing happens and you’re incredibly disappointed in yourself because you though this was the time you’d rock this conversation and make them fully aware of your brillance.
Here is your mirroring lo emotional response “I’m so happy every time I see them, but I can’t seem do say anything without hurting them,i feel so disappointed in myself.”
Of course they may have enough emotional intelligence to understand the situation and react to it, but its independant of the mirroring. The sensor you describe is a sort of narcissist with a high emotional intelligence
Similarly, I think the dark empath description fits a psychopath with zero empathy but a very high emotional intelligence (but maybe its semantics).
Anyway I got tricked into correcting the internet apparently, well done!
I have been suffering from limerance amongst other things for 5 years now. But not from the same person. I first got into the dating stage with a girl for the first time after realizing i was lesbian and it was a type of affection and emotional care i felt like i never experienced. Mind you, we met and started talking when I was so depressed and felt like no one loved me so experiencing this was even more heightened. We ended the dating stage after 3 months and within those 3 months i had no idea why i was so bombarded with only thoughts of her to the point where i would be on a beautiful vacation and still not be present because i was thinking of her. We got back to dating a couple months later and then broke up again. My limerance with here lasted for about 8 months because we still kept in touch until finally i couldn’t take it anymore and told her i wanted to get back together but she thought differently. I cried so much for the 1st day and a half and then suddenly i realized i was over it and it felt like so much weight off my shoulders. I was finally able to feel like i was living again and it was the best months in years. Then i ended up meeting someone else. We started casually hooking up and i felt nothing really towards her until she started being affectionate towards me. The same thing happened. We stopped talking for a couple months because i emotionally didn’t like how she treated me. Very narcissistic. But then i came back again after a few months which made things worse because those bottled up emotions i had towards her made our dynamic more toxic. Recently, we got into a very bad fight. Which ended things for sure and now i can’t stop thinking about her and back at that limerant stage. What’s even worse is that i know why i have limerance which ties in with my childhood traumas and i know that getting over it makes me feel genuinely happy and at peace but it’s still bombarding me. I know this is more of a personal problem but it just sucks when i feel like i can’t talk to anyone. Not even a therapist for some reason. Fear? i guess so. It just sucks but i know i can get over it i just don’t know how or when
I fell for the tortured soul. Which shouldn’t be a surprise as that’s my usual MO for dating and romance. Guess I read to many superhero comics growing up. Figured if scrawny 120 lb me couldn’t save them from the actual villain; the jock that was border line abusive, the perpetrator, the “man” that left her after getting her pregnant, right up to her cheating ex husband, I could rescue them some other way.
But unlike Superman I can’t save them all. But for some reason I keep trying.
My LO ticks a lot of these boxes – tortured soul, indecisive, unavailable/forbidden fruit (and mutually limerent)… and her attributes mesh with my attributes to create a perfect trap.
I picture myself sitting at Crush, the hot new restaurant for limerents, while the sommelier tells me about the wine pairings for the daily specials…
“Oh, I see you’re interested in the Tortured Soul tonight, very good! That will pair perfectly with your hero/savior complex acquired from a lifetime of watching all the most important women in your life (mom, sister, wife) struggle with serious mental health issues and always feeling compelled to heal them and make them happy but being helpless to do so!”
“And the Indecisive LO, yes, very good… That will go quite nicely with your anxious attachment style and deep-seated fear of emotional abandonment. Yes, you’ll feel intense pain and anxiety every time she pulls away for awhile, but oh, the flood of joy when she draws close to you again will be pure ecstasy. And this particular Indecisive LO will keep pulling you in and pushing you away for years if you let her!”
“And for dessert, the Forbidden Fruit… very popular choice, and a perfect pairing for your hazy moral compass and lifelong fascination with the grey areas of right/wrong behavior and your restless compulsion to always want to push things just a little closer to the edge…”
The meal will be delicious! The bill will be large however – two years of your life and counting…
@Lost in Space.
“I picture myself sitting at Crush, the hot new restaurant for limerents, while the sommelier tells me about the wine pairings for the daily specials…”
Oh, it’s called “Crush”, is it? Silly me! I’ve been dining at the wrong restaurant all these years. I’ve been dining at this weird place across the street from “Crush” called “Rush”, because limerence is stronger than a mere crush… All the service staff are dreamboats and all the food is obscenely overpriced. 😆
Nomenclature aside, I enjoyed your comment. Reading other people’s little forays in creative writing is a lot of fun. I think all limerents have something a little bit creative going on inside them.
“…lifelong fascination with the grey areas of right/wrong behavior…”
I’ve never thought of myself as someone fascinated with the grey areas of right/wrong behaviour. I think, initially, I was only interested in morality to the extent of “staying within the illusory bounds of friendship”, as Lucy Bain puts it i.e. doing my best to not let my true feelings show in case they weren’t returned.
In other words, I wanted to maximise my own pleasure while taking no emotional risks. I guess that’s “the coward’s way out” and introverts are often cowards. 😉
I also became obsessed with the difference between straight behaviour in human males and gay behaviour in human males (so I didn’t slip up accidentally and alienate my LO). I have learned a lot of truly fascinating information throughout the process. However, perhaps the most important thing I’ve learned is that there is often objectively no difference between straight behaviour in males and gay behaviour in males. Intent is everything. Intent is often impossible to divine.
I’m sure all this wisdom is applicable to the heterosexual world. Often a man can’t be completely sure – unless told – whether a woman is being friendly with him or being flirtatious with him or being VERY flirtatious with him or just playing games with him or a mix of all the above depending on the day of the week and the price of the drinks.
Many women, especially younger women, might not even be 100% certain of their own desires/motivations during specific interactions with a given man. She may unconsciously want the man to assume some responsibility for creating the feelings in her that she wants to experience. (Madness, I know. But human beings of both sexes are indeed mad). If a couple is doing a mutual dance of flirtation with each other, signals ironically can get even more murky due to synchronisation issues and a desire not to overplay a clearly-winning hand.
As I’ve learned about limerence, I can also see that on some level it can be really, really wrong in the eyes of your average person, especially your average non-limerent person, and I think we need to take the opinions of non-limerents into consideration so we’re not all just stuck in limerent bubbles of our own making.
E.g. if someone’s limerence progresses from “I have a little crush on someone” to “I want to pair-bond with someone who’s currently happily married to someone else”, the latter sentiment (or powerful motivational drive?) isn’t at all morally neutral in most people’s eyes while “a little crush” is fairly innocuous and nothing to worry about. It’s almost like the intensity of the yearning is what makes it morally suspect. 🤔
If some limerents do feel guilty about their limerence, without wishing to sound churlish, I think we should entertain the notion that maybe some limerents DO genuinely have something to feel guilty about. Maybe limerents feel guilty not because of what they do, but because of what they would like to do, and also on some level fear doing. I think limerents feel guilty because they know emotionally they’re “out of control” even if they’re not “out of control” in other ways. 🤔
@Sammy
“Maybe limerents feel guilty not because of what they do, but because of what they would like to do, and also on some level fear doing”
Yes, I agree that they DO feel guilty for that, but is your argument also that they SHOULD feel guilty? For me it depends on the extent to which thought has progressed to action. I don’t think someone should feel guilty for their thoughts alone, as the only crime there is the non-crime of ‘thoughtcrime’. Or at the other end of the scale the limerent could act it out be fully pursuing the married LO – definitely a reason to feel guilty.
@LiS
your menu is very funny. It needs the Glimmer cocktail, discussed in other posts, added. I haven’t worked out all the ingredients but it is sweet and velvety with a long sour after-kick. I’d propose calling it “All that glimmers is not gold”.
@LaR,
“I don’t think someone should feel guilty for their thoughts alone, as the only crime there is the non-crime of ‘thoughtcrime’.”
May Athena always speak to and stand with you! 👍
“And all that glitters ain’t gold”
Gold – Prince
https://youtu.be/ybjMwAxwgf8?si=-RdRojgFHh6u6Lpv
@Adam,
This should be the theme as people cross the stage to collect their “Limmy” award
@Sammy, or whoever wants to hear my sob story 😃
When I was married, in hindsight, I didn’t start the limerence. Meaning, I didn’t go out and seek someone to pair-bond with. For me, it started with the men acting friendly with me, or outright flirting with me, the two times it happened. It was externally motivated. But both times brought with it euphoria (because I felt connected to someone on such a level I never knew before) and also extreme guilt (because I was married and not supposed to feel that way toward another man.)
I literally told my counselor that I felt like an adultress. But that is my Biblical perspective coming out: to even think of another person lustfully is adultery. The tools I had (prayer, etc) felt like they weren’t working at that time. But now I know it is an actual thing happening in my brain that causes it to take so long to get over, and I just have to be patient and let it take it’s course.
Perhaps to some, it is the start of adultery. So, I was very torn in limerence because I couldn’t stop the ruminating thoughts and feelings at that point.
I feel that, for me, being married was the greatest barrier to getting over limerence. Sadly, now that my spouse knows my “secret” and doesn’t want to be married anymore, and that I know what limerence is and have tools to try to navigate it, I am hopeful to have a more mature, grounded outlook in my dating and hopefully future marriage situations.
💙
@LN
Deeply 😞 for your sob story and feeling of being “tortured”…
What a woe 💅 to let one’s mere thoughts and humanistic emotions be policed and punished by a set of rigid and inhuman ideological, moralistic codes, like those in my COO (much worse and punitive 😡 than many other faiths, thousands or millions were physically killed for mere speeches of thoughts… .)
Unable to understand complex humanity, your husband no longer deserves your marital affections. Let him go with a lasting peace 🕊️ in you. With your LwL wisdom, you’ll find more psychologically mature men/women out there to bond with friendship or partnership.
Good luck! 🫂
Sorry about the wrong emoji displayed as “woe”, 🤕 it was supposed to be a sharp metal nail (appeared on my ipad).
Science says that homo sapiens are not a monogamous species; in fact, we usually have 2.5 long term relationships in a lifetime, on average. Exclusivity is a cultural construct that has been causing confusion and misery for millennia; however, personal ego, and the thought of losing something to someone else, has led us to the very core of human folly. Someday, we need to get away from the notion that we can own other people and start wars over what we regard as “sovereign” territory.
A while ago I heard about a couple that was celebrating 80 years of marriage. I don’t recall the exact details, but I remember hearing someone quoting the couple when asked what their secret was to staying together for 80 years, and if there were any times when the marriage nearly failed. The answer was something like “Yes, there were a couple of times we nearly got divorced, but I think the reason we are still together is because we never tried to control each other.” I think I may have found the article this anecdote was based upon in the link below.
https://www.wsaw.com/2024/01/02/its-wonderful-look-st-louis-couple-celebrates-80th-wedding-anniversary-new-years-day/
Here is a quote from the article.
“Bertha said the key to a blissful 80 years of marriage is trust.
‘I think trust in each other,’ she said. ‘We would not lie to each other or try to deceive the other, and it’s worked, it’s worked out.’
When I was a child, there was a very popular book titled “Jonathan Livingston Seagull” that everybody said you had to read, that it had a very deep and emotional philosophical message that everybody needed to hear. Specifically, the quote “If you love something, set it free. If it comes back, it’s yours. If not, it was never meant to be”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSGl3d4KOMk
The degree and intensity of desiring to own everything (un)knowable , including human body, mind, and soul, in the West never fails to “amazingly bewilder me even after living here for a long while…. And no one so far has convinced me how to own/possess intangibles such as HUMAN heart and mind…. Dogs’ heart/mind is definitely possible!
“If you love something, set it free. If it comes back, it’s yours. If not, it was never meant to be”.
That’s one of layman Buddhistic traditions (fatalism), not hard to follow when one is brought up by it and when one is not in an intense longing out of traumas or in limerence. There are plenty of fishes in the sea.
If you love someone, set him free. If he comes back, no one else wanted him either. Set him free again. 😀
@Sammy,
I love your insight on all topics related to limerence. You write like a Pro. You seem to have an intellect about this stuff as if you’ve studied it for years. I read what you wrote in another Coffeehouse thread, about how little you say you actually know, but you seem to really get what’s going on in these sick and twisted little heads of ours, when it comes to obsessing over other human beings. Not only that, but you know how to make light of things and put a comedic spin on our ridiculous-ness. Your posts are a delight to read.
Guess what I’m saying is don’t underestimate yourself Friend. You have a purpose here also and I wholly do appreciate what you replied to me about the other night in the Coffeehouse. I was unable to reply because the Good Doctor apparently shut off the comments.. All good. I just wanted to thank you and let you know this.. 😄
@MJ,
Thanks 😊
@Trifles,
HAHAHHA
“I think limerents feel guilty because they know emotionally they’re “out of control” even if they’re not “out of control” in other ways. ”
This portion is being actively overlooked by most people replying.
The functioning limerent. Much like the functioning alcoholic. 95% of the people I know/interact with have no idea of my drinking habits. They just assume because I am not “out of control” and have my ducks in row there’s no way there is an alcoholic under all that orderliness. That is why the vast majority of alcoholics hit rock bottom before they get help/help themselves. People around them don’t know and unconsciously enable the alcoholic. Most family will enable a functioning alcoholic by their indecisiveness. So they convince themselves they are not “out of control”. I can quit anytime.
I’m just being friendly with her. I just want to help her. She has no one else. She is all alone in the world. No one sees the wonderful person she is. The “I can quit at anytime” version for limerents. Just because you have everyone around you fooled and they don’t see your irrational obsession doesn’t mean you aren’t out of control.
I didn’t have to hit rock bottom with limerence. She saw to it that it never got that far. Crossing my fingers I won’t with my other addiction.
@ Whitworth
Are you a moderator or judge here?
@Whitworth.
“This portion is being actively overlooked by most people replying.”
Thank you for drawing attention to the main thing I wish to emphasise. Limerence can lead to “emotional incontinence”, for want of a better term, and most people who are emotionally incontinent have no idea they’re emotionally incontinent. Limerence truly is a kind of natural “monomania” i.e. a mental fixation on one subject/one goal, to the exclusion of all others. 😉
When people read my posts, they should keep a few things in mind always:
(1) I’m an intensely kind man. I don’t have a malicious bone in my body. People who may wish to read malice into my comments are reading something that isn’t there, and has never been there. Mere disagreement isn’t malice and people who conflate diagreement with malice are people who are still struggling unconsciously with varying degrees of emotional immaturity/developmental arrest. Toddlers assume “Mummy is mean” when she won’t let them eat nothing but cookies. Adults know you can’t live on just cookies. 😜
(2) I have been through a very powerful LE of my own. Thankfully, the only person I really hurt during my LE was myself and a few members of my family of origin (largely by being very sullen).
(3) My comments are NEVER personal attacks on other people. They aren’t written to shame people. They aren’t written to guilt-trip people. If I bring up the topic of guilt, as I do above, that’s because I’ve observed some limerents ALREADY feel guilty and they’re interested in learning what might be causing the feelings of guilt, since they haven’t done anything wrong. Why might good decent people be plagued with such overwhelming feelings of guilt? 🤔
(4) During my own LE, I was very dismissive of the valuable input/insights I was given by non-limerent friends in my life. I now see my reluctance to listen to well-meaning non-limerent friends as a form of arrogance of my part. I deeply regret being so arrogant.
(5) If people feel they can successfully compartmentalise limerence, they are (a) not experiencing limerence at all but some other less intense form of attraction/attachment, or (b) not yet in Stage THree of lImerence, or what Lucy Bain calls “Crystallised Limerence”. Don’t you worry, my lovelies – the iceman cometh. 😆😆😆
During Stage One The Glimmer Stage of limerrence and Stage Two the Honeymoon Stage of limerence, one probably feels quite a lot of excitement and optimism, celebrating the arrival of an interesting new person into one’s life, but one’s mind is still very much one’s own. Only when a person enters “Crystallised Limerence” does one realise that one is no longer calling the shots, no longer in charge of one’s emotional responses, and no longer able to walk away at will. After Crystallisation, the highs and lows become involuntary.
People in Stages One and Two of limerence, who feel they are doing just fine emotionally thank you very much, should not get too complacent. Stage Three of limerence will come if (a) the LO is genuinely unavailable for pair-bonding purposes and (b) one continues to indulge in infatuation at every opportunity, be it real-life interactions or fantasy interactions – because said interactions feel so good.
I realise I’m probably starting to sound a little bit like Lee, who was the famous (infamous?) “non-limerent friend” of the blog in its early days. But, upon reflection, I can appreciate that much of what Lee said is valid. Sometimes, non-limerents can see things limerents can’t see, even if non-limerents never themselves get to experience the heady rush/numinous glow of lovesickness firsthand. 😇
I respect everyone at LwL, and I would like to offer everyone both my affectionate regards and my warm wishes. You’re quite a bunch.
Dr Bellamy – I think you have done something I believed impossible. You have explained to me, in terms I found satisfactory, the very powerful and utterly mystifying experience I went through in my late teens. I thought I was “broken”. Turns out I was only “lovesick” or “in love” or “smitten” or however people wish to define limerence. (What Lucy Bain says about limerence on her blog mostly complements what you say. I find reading your writings together useful). Thank you so much for your extraordinary kindness. 🙂
Words speak for themselves and define (sometimes unfortunately) speakers, w/o their explanation or self-declaration, unless mistakes/misunderstandings are inevitably caused by ESL errors.
Expecting/making one’s emotions under control during LE is like trying to stop running nose while having a flu, it would be trying to rise above God! IF insinuating/gaslighting or subtly/indirectly, instigating guilt/shame-trip in some “out of control” limerents, it would be like playing a “devil’s” hand adding salt to their wounds.
I have limerented during teenage and don’t think the LE during one’s budding era could be applied to some LEs in adulthood. Maturity affects characteristics, intensity, and duration of limerence….
DrL: you’re an unregistered Buddhist!
Glory to those artistic and scientific lemerents whose imaginations and creations have made our world more beautiful and functional!
@Sammy,
“I’ve observed some limerents ALREADY feel guilty and they’re interested in learning what might be causing the feelings of guilt, since they haven’t done anything wrong. Why might good decent people be plagued with such overwhelming feelings of guilt? 🤔”
One obvious reason — they read and believe in Bible, a fact directly revealed by many posts here.
I feel zero and sometimes minus guilty — proud (of its creativity), about my LE, particularly the latest one…. ☺️
@Sammy.
Nice to be remembered.
@Lee.
“Nice to be remembered.”
Your legacy remains an important one. 🙂
In the thick of limerence, I was tired. Good golly, I was tired. I thought I loved my LO, but the attraction I felt toward him drained the life out of me. I once even told him I was tired, and he looked at me with his usual mix of disgust and incomprehension. (Why did I love that boy? I have no idea. Must have been the dopamine).
I had many non-limerent friends during that time. Most of those people were very loving and fairly non-judgemental toward me. I’m embarrassed to say this, but I thought they were all stupid. I even accused one of being a “brainwashed cult member” simply because he couldn’t wrap his head around the concept of limerence. Even after being accused of being a cult member, he was kind toward me.
In hindsight, I was so confused. I assumed other people in my life, including family members, were intentionally withholding love. I just didn’t feel loved on a visceral, emotional level. Now I know I didn’t feel loved during that period in my life because I was suffering from severe withdrawal symptoms related to limerence. (If LO didn’t love me, my brain spuriously reasoned, then nobody loved me).
@Sammy – That’s really rough. Glad you’re through the worst of it and may it never knee cap you again!
Lost in Space, you know how some food comes back to bite you later? Well, I think you’re dining at a restaurant where that kind of food is served. Your chosen dish has a delayed spiciness called BPD. Everything is fine until it isn’t. When the heat kicks in, you will regret your dining choices. I hope your heart can handle the burn.
I’m kidding. Your story was brilliant!
@Snowpheonix,
Thanks for listening to my sob story ❤️ The ironic thing is that I know Jesus forgives me, but my husband could not. If he was able to come to a place of understanding about my issue we could have perhaps worked it out. But he could not, and I have to respect that about him. But I could never give up Jesus and His love and expectations for me. Yes, He has high standards, but I have lived without Him before and I don’t want to go back to that way of life.
@LN,
Letting your husband go without attempting to change him or alter your own lived, effective faith is a high respect to both you as an individual. I only expressed my own observation of historical facts and some expressed individual sufferings (myself included most….)
I respect other’s respect and conducts (joyfully or painfully) for their chosen faith, as long as I am not (in)directly preached or moralized by those faiths, which is truly a private matter.
Each of us is solely responsible for our lived “heaven and hell”….
@LN,
It sucks that your Husband is unable to forgive. Even when all of this limerence stuff is simply in your head. I can understand how the euphoria of having the attention of other Men can mess with your mind. I feel like your Husband has things he needs to work on too, but I won’t speculate too much because your situation is unique to you and only the both of you can decide what’s best.
I do wish you well, whatever goes down..
LN, maybe this isn’t the only complaint that your husband has. Perhaps it was the thing that tipped the scale.
Miss Lovisa
I was sitting in our room playing Xbox and Momma was watching something on her laptop and out of nowhere she says (without me even facing her) “I’d like to punch [my boss] right in the face for that.” I turn around and look at her like “I know you don’t like him in general, but whaaaa?” She said for what he said Thursday about her when I was there where she use to work. That she had tried to come back and get a job and who she was dating. She said she felt like we were back at zero again. She wasn’t forthcoming about why she thought that was were our progress was nor directly indicated to me what she may have saw in my behavior to make her think that. She didn’t really want to discuss it when I tried to explain things out about her situation, and so I let it drop and went back to my game. Later on before I went to sleep we watched some humorous videos on youtube together. I don’t know what to make of it all.
Adam, thanks for sharing. Momma is hurt. I don’t know specifically what symptoms she sees in you that are causing her pain, but she feels defensive of her family and she is blaming the problem on your boss. Her reaction is understandable. Honestly, since we can’t control what other people do, it would be more effective to strengthen yourselves than lash out at the person who hurt you. By the way, I don’t think your boss did anything wrong or malicious. I don’t think he deserves blame. The situation with your LO happened, it doesn’t need to be a secret, and it stirs up a lot of emotions for you. That’s just how it is.
I want you to learn how to use a technique called “reflective response.” Google it. It would have been very helpful last night with Momma. Learning to use reflective response is challenging. You won’t get it right sometimes. You might feel uncomfortable using it. It’s like learning to walk, you fall down a lot before you get good at it. I’ve taken multiple classes to sharpen my skills and I still get it wrong sometimes. It is so effective that it is worth learning and using. It is a gift to the people who you use it on. Give it a try.
I guess I should give you an example. I’ll guess what it might have looked like last night.
Momma, “I want to punch your boss for telling you about LO.”
You take a deep breath: “You wish my boss hadn’t told me about the incident with LO. You feel angry that he told me.”
Momma feels heard and understood so she elaborates. I can’t go on with my example because I can’t read her mind so I don’t know what would happen next, but a simple acknowledgement of what she said will validate it and she will feel heard. Reflective response is incredibly soothing. I love it when someone uses it on me. I feel my whole body relax. My LO3 is good at it. It seems to come naturally to him. My SO will sometimes say, “Hold on, I want to use reflective response right now, I need to think about it for a moment.” Then he will give his best effort. That works too. My SO isn’t as naturally good at it as my LO3, but his efforts are equally as soothing.
It is a difficult skill to learn, but you are the perfect man for the job. Your big heart will love doing this for other people.
Miss Lovisa
I am sure that he didn’t have any intention for it to reach as far as my wife’s ears with telling me that. But he most certainly knew what he was doing telling me for no reason; he knew it would rile me up. He knows he can push my buttons with her and I fall for it and just make matters worse.
I like your suggestion though. I will look into this reflective response more. I was taken aback by her bringing it up out of nowhere and because it is such a sensitive subject my knee jerk response was to go into defense mode. Defending her, not even myself. Which probably just made it worse.
Thank you for the information. I think it will help a lot.
👏
@Lovisa,
He basically said he can’t trust that it won’t happen to me again, and therefore couldn’t continue being married me. Not to say we were perfect or that there weren’t things that bugged us about eachother, but it really seems to be the main issue.
LN, thanks for sharing. I would be devastated if I lost my husband. I’m so sorry it’s come to this for you two.
@Lovisa,
Thank you. I just want to be transparent on the forum so that others can perhaps learn from my issues, or maybe not feel so alone in their struggles or experiences with limerence 💙
LN, your story is a sobering wake up call for limerents. I appreciate your willingness to share.
Can I ask how many kids do you have and what age range? My parents divorced when I was four so my heart goes out to your kids, too. I think if you and your husband can be kind to each other, it will help your kids thrive.
@MJ,
Thank you for your kind response. Yes, every marriage has its issues and no one is perfect. I am mostly hopeful for my future, as my soon-to- be-ex is a very wonderful man and father on all other fronts, and wants to be 100% invested in our children as he has been this whole time. And we are very amicable and able to do that. I am also a little excited to get out and meet new people and see what happens. 💙
@Lovisa,
Sure, we have three beautiful daughters aged 9, 11 and 13. My parents divorced when I was in high school because my father made poor choices due to mental health issues. My spouse doesn’t have those kinds of problems thankfully. He works hard and is very involved in their lives, so I am sure the transition will be hard, but not as hard as others perhaps because he will still be a huge positive presence in their lives.
Thanks for responding, LN. Please learn how not to engage in parental alienation. It is incredibly hurtful to your kids.
Can you take classes to learn how to have a healthy co-parent relationship?
I know you wouldn’t hurt your kids intentionally, but life is going to be hard at times and I want you to be ready to handle the tough stuff with grace.
I’m trying not to analyse the motivations of my LO, as I’ll never know for sure without her disclosure, and I don’t think it’s healthy to think about her more than I already do!
I assumed that she is an innocent, “Good LO” – she does have many admirable qualities.
But now it’s spelled out, it’s obvious that she is a Game Player, and likely a whole bunch more..
In a way, she did disclose, at her farewell party, where she could indulge in burning a few bridges, under the effects of alcohol and who knows what else..
LO revealed that she was flirting with at least a couple of other guys at work, one of whom, a married man, she had “wrapped around my finger”.
(I wasn’t aware, because she only flirted with men when alone with them. She flirted with women openly though)
The only thing in common among all the flirtees, of both genders, is that we’re the strong, shy type.
She also complained that she’d been reprimanded for being “too friendly” (LO’s words – I’m sure that our boss, a female, used different terminology).
It does mean that LO is unlikely to return, so NC will probably be permanent.
I still can’t wrap my head around notion that she was trying to pursue me, or at least playing at it, especially knowing that I’m married.
I guess I would be considered a “safe” target, perhaps a challenging puzzle to crack, but solvable, thanks to my nonverbal cues betraying me.
I tried to keep distance from LO for months, but my words and my body language wouldn’t have been aligned, and I’m sure she sensed it.
I was probably giving off more mixed messages than she was!
@Lovisa,
Thank you for your concern. Did you experience parental alientation? I am so sorry if you did. In our amicable agreement we have made it so that we both have 100% access to our children, so there is no evidence that either of us with do that to each other or to our children.
LN, my mom is the queen of parental alienation. She was soooooo good at it. We are working to repair the damage today. I suspect that my sister’s current instability stems from our unstable childhood. I’m not blaming my parents. My sister made many bad choices that got her to where she is, but I definitely think the animosity between my parents continues to hurt our family 42 years after their divorce.
Here are a few tricks from my mom’s repertoire…
She would get us ready for a visit with my dad really early, even putting our coats on, then make us sit on the couch for what felt like hours listening to her complain that my dad is always late to pick us up so he obviously doesn’t love us.
She wouldn’t purchase stuff that we needed like a new winter coat, shoes, food, you name it, and she would tell us that she just couldn’t afford to provide because our dad didn’t pay child support.
She repeatedly said, “Your dad abandoned his family.” “Your dad doesn’t love you.”
Unfortunately, it’s been hard to repair the damage that my mom caused. She shouldn’t have done those things. She isn’t a monster in general, she was hurt and angry and she didn’t handle her feelings well.
My mom did a lot of stuff right, too. It’s just that recovering from parental alienation is hard. It is so hard. Keep in mind that anything you say about your child’s parent, your child hears it as if you are saying it about them.
@Lovisa,
What a devastating thing you went through. I can promise you I will never do that about their father. I have only positive things to say about him; he truly has grown for the better during our marriage, and we agreed we’d never do anything like that to eachother. But thank you for your concern. Our children are in great hands 👌
Song of the Blog: “Devil In Disguise” – Elvis Presley (1963)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sjWaGnonns
A truly great Elvis tune.
A few Demotivators to go along with it.
Destiny: https://despair.com/cdn/shop/products/destinydemotivator_1024x1024.jpeg?v=1403275970
Dysfunction (my personal favorite): https://despair.com/cdn/shop/products/dysfunctiondemotivator.jpeg?v=1403275986
Strife: https://despair.com/cdn/shop/products/strifedemotivator.jpeg?v=1403276125
Trouble: https://despair.com/cdn/shop/products/troubledemotivator.jpeg?v=1403276140
Believe: https://despair.com/cdn/shop/products/believe.png?v=1632885349
And, maybe the best one as it relates to limerence:
Imagination: https://despair.com/cdn/shop/products/imagination.jpg?v=1540860301
If one can compartmentalize imagination and rationality, along many other human natures and talents, one’s reality can be getting better with Ego—Zeus.
I carried the last image (imagination) in my head even at my darkest moments… so I never attempted a suicide (despite I bought a bottle of sleeping pills once and then trashed it all). Remember that Italian movie, “Life is Beautiful” (1997)? It is not lunatic in my eyes.
Imagination leads to all sorts of artistic and scientific creations, not just the altered state of mind, such as in limerence. It’s unfair or even damaging to attack imagination itself, the image can be labeled as Reverie in Limerence.
Snow,
Despair.com is built on cynicism and irreverence. If those don’t appeal to you, Despair.com isn’t the place for you. I happen to love them, a trait I inherited from my maternal grandfather. I had one of their calendars and their screen saver. I took some of them, framed them and hung them outside my cubicle at work.
I love Consistency https://despair.com/cdn/shop/products/consistencydemotivator.jpeg?v=1414004030
One day my teenage daughter did something she’d done before. When I told her that was the second time and it wasn’t any better than the first time, my daughter’s reply was at least she was consistent.
My reply was the quote from the Demotivator. My wife came unglued on me.
@LE,
I’ll sign up for the Mistakes one. That’s my motto here at LWL.
Thank you. This site is making me happy right now.
Now that’s my kind of motivational poster! lol
Hi LE,
Every matter and all human traits have at least two sides, despair.com seems to cynicise (making up a word here) only one side, I get it! Brilliant, intellectual/artistic LO#5 is like that, fun for banters, but depressive to himself most and a lot of time depressed me (I never glimmered at him, but deeply sympathized him. )
I am learning and practicing more on speculating and contemplating all matters at least on two sides (if not more like on an elephant), so hopefully I won’t be deluded or dominated only by one biased side.
Those superficial, “pathological” positivities also drive me nuts! Inherited from Mom and due to my traumatic experiences, I’m quite pessimistic, spotting negative sides fast and intuitively and have to try my might daily to cheer myself with “right” mentality.
One of the national “traits” of COO is logic, its inhuman ideology, collective oppression and individual repression, killing creative human source at a scope more than most Westerners could ever imagine, unless you have lived there! A quiet “rebel” like me is rare and can only survive outside of its border.
Those are brilliant LE. My Ex hated my cynicism. Which was why it was so much fun to rattle her chains.
I’ll be sure to send a few these her way.. 😂😂
Thanks!
Procrastination and Failure are pretty good, too.
I wish Despair.com had been around when the end game was playing out with LI #2. I would have sent her Dysfunction. The problem with Dysfunction is it applies as much to us as it does to them.
I introduced LO #4 to Despair.com. She loved it. LO #4 and I saw a lot of things alike.
My wife isn’t a fan of it. She thinks I often take cynicism too far.
Every LO I have ever encountered has had a combination of all of these traits; however, #10 on this list is #1 for me. I had my first strong crush when I was in preschool when I was 4 years old! I vividly remember being made fun of by other kids and that she avoided me for that reason. I am certain that this was a very formative experience, and all other future crushes/infatuations/LEs were/are informed by it.
On a second thought, besides #10, #3 (Unavailable LOs) would be the only other significant trait/factor that all of my LOs have in common. They were unavailable simply because they decided on their own to become unavailable. I never got to know anyone well enough to really make any other assessments about them.
Well, if there‘s no Coffeehouse open for commenting I have to post my ramble on this complete unrelated blog post 🤷🏻♀️!
I just want to remark that I think I’m now out of the woods. For the first time in more than ten years I‘m completely limerence-free. I had three LEs, transferring without break, not always very intense, but always some LO spooking around in the background of my mind (but never pushing SO from being Nr 1).
My LO still texts , I reply, but I don’t feel limerent, I don’t initiate simply because I don’t think of texting, and even though I‘ll have the chance to stay overnight at his place without his SO in 10 days, I won’t, I will just drop by for a coffee, actually looking forward to it, but in a very normal way, nothing excited or limerent about it.
I think he texts because he simply has the habit now, I‘m someone to show his life to, like other people use social media. I don’t mind, but I send almost nothing back now, just respond.
The solution was above all that he‘s not around any more, I guess, but I also feel that I enter a new stage of my life.
Pragmatically, I‘m getting old. I‘ve been on business travel, and while my younger colleagues include me and like having me around, I just don’t feel like partying with them into the morning anymore, and I feel that finally I crossed an invisible line- until a while ago I was still one of the attractive interesting „girls“, now I‘m the attractive older woman, men‘s eyes go to my lovely young colleagues first. While I‘m not that bothered because it matches my own feeling of not being interested in new men too much anymore too, it still provokes a bit of melancholy. But not as much as I thought. I‘m quite ok with it.
I just wonder- was limerence something that cropped up in this intensity when I was nearing 40 and was simply a product of hormonal „last hurrah“stuff, and now that I feel perimenopause kicking in, it stops?
Meaning also, now that I’m finally without any LO , is there a gap that just waits for the next eligible man to fill it and there‘s struggle against that ahead of me, or did the gap close ?
Future will tell, I guess.
So, this is my song of the day:
https://youtu.be/b0cAWgTPiwM
Hi Mila, I’m glad that you feel free from limerence. I think you might enjoy this article.
https://livingwithlimerence.com/im-totally-over-this-lets-go-for-coffee/
Lovisa,
Don’t need to read it, I know it;)
It’s not like that, thank you anyway!
But I’m actually also curious how I will feel after the meeting in 10 days. I can predict that I will surely still feel some of the learned attraction etc, might thinking him more for a while etc, but it will fade again afterwards.
*think of him
I hope it goes well, Mila.
Thanks Lovisa, me too!
I‘ll probably report here, especially if it goes wrong in the sense of re-awakening limerent feelings…
At the moment I don’t feel excited at all about this visit, it seems like a normal thing to do and even a little bit of a bother (a bit more traveling etc)but something you do for a friend.
Lovisa,
I read the recommended blog post again.
„ In fact, a good test would be to decide “I have lots of projects on at the moment, and meeting old-LO isn’t a priority” and then see how your dormant limerent brain feels about that. It’ll let you know if it’s cross about losing its fix.“
I genuinely wouldn’t mind if the meeting couldn’t take place or if I would have to cancel it. In fact, if I wouldn’t have quite stretch of free time after that one project near his town, I wouldn’t make the little detour and visit him because it would be too much of a bother. At the moment I don’t really care much, maybe because I‘m a bit overworked, but genuinely, I think I don’t have any strong feelings on that meeting.
We’ll see.
Mila, yes – that’s what I’ve been maintaining here to anyone who will listen!* It’s hormonal and it’s a phase that shall pass. I’m quite convinced of it, because I’ve never been one to clamor for anyone’s attention – and now I am/have been. And I’m sure I’m a candidate for limerence until the hormones settle down. I’m just trying to reign it in as much as I can (while still enjoying the attention). 😉
And I’m glad to hear you are post-limerence!
*) I think that’s what Sammy was going on about in the coffee house – he perhaps didn’t want to take part in my conversation about female perimenopausal hormones – can’t imagine why he wouldn’t?! 😂 – Sammy, don’t worry about it – I didn’t notice you running out of any conversation!
@Trifles.
It’s all good. I can’t remember what I was going on about. I only wanted you to feel welcome here in general. But you’re right too – there are some rabbit holes I’m not necessarily in a terrible hurry to explore. (Was that yet another cringeworthy pun? If I’m such a morally correct young man, and I assure you that I am, why does my mind invariably come up with images that always sound so vaguely suggestive?) 🙄😆
If limerence can lead to rebirth, apparently I’ve been reborn as an eight-year-old boy. (Perhaps that’s what I’ve always been under my glittering facade of intellectualism?) My karma must be terrible: I am doomed to be a child forever. As you can well imagine, the interests of eight-year-old boys tend toward the very basic. (Mostly food and maybe few random hobbies?) We certainly don’t wish to discuss peri-whatever-the-thing-you-said. 😜
Yes, I think I’m an eight-year-old boy psychologically trapped in the body of a forty-one-year-old man, and I’ve spent the last quarter of a century emotionally hyperventilating over nothing in particular. For me, limerence didn’t lead to hypersexuality, but rather, to hyperemotionality. 😜
Now that limerence is fading, I don’t feel hyperemotional anymore. My amygdala has settled down in that regard. I wonder if my past hyperemotionality was simply a byproduct of “being in love” and not a permanent feature of my personality after all? If I lose my hyperemotionality, I’m probably going to lose the one thing about me that was ever remotely interesting! 😲😆
Here’s one more dumb joke I love to tell audiences of choice:
Sammy’s friend: “Oh, hello there, Sammy. Getting any?”
Sammy: **Looks mortified, clutches pearls** “I swear I have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. Why? What have you heard?”
Sammy, mwah! I really appreciate you making sure everyone feels welcomed. MJ too (was so nice), even though objectively, I acted quite patronizing. (Because I’ve gotten an understanding of what I need to avoid doing while limerent and I want to preach it to everyone! Also my style is a little blunt at times.)
Funny you should say that you’re now an 8-yr-old boy because I’ve thought I’ve felt like a 14-year-old boy lately, and you can imagine what that feels like! It’s strange because most of my life I’ve felt like a cross between a 10-year-old girl and a middle-aged woman. So now I have a newfound appreciation of what men go through. 😜
But I doubt hyper-emotionality was/is the most interesting thing about you. In any case, the experiences we have make us the person we are. Some lessons just take longer for some of us to learn!
@Mila,
I wonder about the hormonal influences as well, and maybe for some it is mostly about that, but for me I remember even in my childhood having these long, strong fixations on boys/men. Yes, my last two limerent experiences were the worst, and seven years apart, but I think for me being married and not being able to pair-bond/consummate made the limerence worse. But my experiences only lasted about two years each — almost like clockwork. I haven’t been limerent for someone beyond that time. I couldn’t imagine ten years of it. Or Sammy’s 25 years of it! I guess that’s not my “style” of limerence.
The first time I experienced it while marid I had had my third daughter and started some low-dose medication for low-grade depression. I was feelin’ good! I was 32. The second time I was 38, and no doubt my body was in a rush to procreate again. But since the last limerent experience coincided with those two years, it’s hard to know if it was the hormones or the limerence — more than likely both– that gave me a supercharged libido for those two years. I suspect it was the limerence, because the only two times I had a strong libido was when I was limerent for someone…
I hope you don’t have any more limerent experiences if you truly don’t want them. I personally think for me that it will always be a potential thing that could happen to me because it has been a part of my life for so long — since childhood. I only write about the ones while married because they seem the most significant.
For me, not having social media or any contact with the person through text, work, etc was the best way to get over it. Not having social media is a big ask for most people, but it’s easy for me because I don’t enjoy it. It actually detracts from my life when I interact with it. I feel less connected to people through that medium somehow.
Also, now that I am single and getting to know people again, as soon as it is decided we aren’t going to move forward, I say my good-byes and delete all conversations of them on my phone. I know that having those things around could foster limerence, or resentment, and I don’t want that.
I guess what I am trying to say is that if you are concerned you could have a tendency for serial limerence, you may want to have an action plan in place to try to avoid it!
💙
LN,
Somewhere in the archives is a blog that shows three paths for LEs. One was the LE was consummated. One where it wasn’t. And, one where the limerent never had a chance to find out.
My comment in that blog was that I went down all 3. I had relationships with LO #1 & LO #2 and they went to their conclusion. LO #3 shut me down before it developed into a full-blown LE. I was available for the first three. I was married when I encountered LO #4 and got into an LE/EA with her. It was never allowed to see where it might have gone.
I have two “What if?” lists. One is a list of people who I wonder might have happened had I met them under different circumstances. The other is what might have happened if I had made different decisions or someone else made decisions that affected me made. Asking LO #2 to marry me is one example, my father’s suicide is another. Both those events shaped the arc of my life.
@LE,
I have definitely walked down all those paths myself. Mostly the first two. Now that I am single, I am closing the “What ifs?”by ruling the guys out that caused all this strife in the first place. It’s a quick process. Two down, one more to go! 😃
I don’t have a lot of traumatic history to report. My dad was kind of a disinterested dad, so maybe that’s why. But if that’s the case, why doesn’t my sister have the same affliction? I really feel limerence hits a few people for some reason unknown. At least we can all try to figure it out together.
Hi Trifles and LN,
I‘ve been also prone to crushes my whole life, even when married, but I think they only took on the intensity of limerence when I was close to 40.
But I‘m not quite sure because now I remember a quite strong crush before I got kids. So maybe I was limerent before too, and I also was limerent for my SO in the beginning. So maybe it’s not wholly true that the LEs started with my forties.
Maybe it’s only that in the LE I count as 1st LE, there suddenly was disclosure and everything got real, and since then these crushes or LEs developed a much more painful side. Before, everything was completely in my fantasy (or worked out, like with my SO).
I still have the feeling that the danger of limerence might get less with hormonal change.
LN,
„I personally think for me that it will always be a potential thing that could happen to me because it has been a part of my life for so long“
That’s what I also thought about me, and it could still be true, but I feel a change in me, it might be the hormones, but it could also be that I‘ve finally had enough, or have seen often enough how it will develop.
Social media like Instagram or Facebook aren’t a problem for me limerence-wise, but texting is, and meeting glimmery people who are interested in me too. But now that I’m apparently getting more invisible for men, that problem might solve itself.
My plan is to nip it in the bud (since I‘m not single), now that I can recognize the signs very early. Like, just not initiate anything and respond neutrally. Most men will stop pursuing or being interested when not encouraged in some way. At the moment I feel capable of that, but of course I cannot know it now. I‘ll try hard, though. Cannot spend any more lifetime in that debilitating state of mind of limerence.
@Mila,
I hope with our self-awareness and skills we can better deflect the glimmerers and the potentials in our future. That is what I aim for. I was already doing that, and it was working: nipping it in the bud sooner than later. And if I become invisible to men, so be it. I think being married made me quite invisible to most men while I was married (as it should). Just two of them decided to shoot their shot regardless, and those were the ones I already had a friendship/connection/attraction to. I don’t get limerent for just anybody. They have to possess a certain amount of my personal preferred features to do the job for me. Again, hoping it won’t be a catastrophic issue anymore from here on out. I just want to learn from my experiences and move forward. 💙
@LN,
I have been following your story and hope you’re doing Ok. You seem to be dealing with it with such a level head and that sounds brilliant for all concerned. Good luck with continued moves forward.
I have a question. I suspect that the way your husband reacted to what he read in your journals is similar to how my SO would react if I disclosed my limerence to her (especially while my LE is present tense not past tense). Do you look back and wish he had been spared the knowledge, or do you now feel (despite the outcome) that it is better with everything out? Put another way – if he never saw your journal, would you disclose to him?
If these questions are too personal or triggering then please just ignore them. I am just wondering if one day (not yet) I will need to get it all out on the table with SO for the two of us to move on authentically. But with that I take the serious risk that she will break it off. And then we are back to the endless LwL dilemma about whether “guilt for thoughts” is a thing that needs to be out there.
Not going to disclose to SO anytime soon. Want to continue my own journey to ending LE first (see above post to Mila) to be able to see it as past tense. Just thinking ahead.
LN,
Thanks for replying. I’m sorry authenticity had to come at the cost of your romantic connection. Partly
I think it is on him that he can’t understand, but partly it is, as you say, quite a huge thing for any SO to try and understand.
Much of me knows I owe my SO the whole truth eventually, but part of me knows how hard it would hit her (as it would me, the other way round). I want to spare her that hurt as well as not create a rupture in the relationship. I think this not disclosing strategy only holds water if I am genuinely managing the LE responsibly and working to reduce it. I have to keep checking in with myself and being really honest about whether / how I am doing that.
I think disclosure to a spouse (at least in my case) is the ultimate cry for help. I can’t manage this on my own. And I couldn’t. Even in her absence I was handling it poorly in my mind. And with the leaking all over the place suspicions were already there. I wasn’t hiding it well. I would like it to the day (if it ever comes) where I ask for help to get sober. I can “manage” my drinking, ie being functional. But that doesn’t mean that I am in control of it. And I know, if that day comes, if I ask my wife for help she will know that it is a genuine cry for help the same as it was with limerence. At least once she wrapped her head around what it was with the articles that Dr L wrote for the spouses of limerents. I don’t think I could have disclosed without his words.
Adam,
I really admire how you told your wife. At one point I looked back and saw your posts with Miss Lovisa that led up to that. It was a brave decision.
I’m lucky (if you can put it that way) that I found LwL around the time when my LE was peaking, and I have been able to draw on it and the people here ever since. My ‘managing’ of it is not perfect but it is better than it would have been without this place. I’m pretty certain I’d have blown it up with LO with a disclosure if I didn’t come here. I think I’d have had to disclose to SO if I had got nearer the bottom. I may yet one day, but like I said to LN there are risks and uncomfortabilities to both ways. I know I must leak at times but it’s not all the time.
Regarding the hormones vs limerence discussion – I do think I have a perhaps genetic propensity for limerence, but hormonal changes set it off: i.e. puberty, then biological clock at 30, and I suppose biological clock again at 40+.
@Lim-a-rant,
Good question. I was trying to spare him the pain of knowing that I had strong feelings for other men because I 1. Knew it would break his heart, and 2. Realized it was my own issue — not an issue with him. I think he forgave me seven years ago from the first incident (in hindsight, I learned it was limerence.) But for it to happen again, it was insupportable to him. He is not built to understand limerence, and in fact he told me he thought it was “mental” and “bs”.
So. The only good news is that even though I was at the tail end of LO2, once he found out, it actually obliterated my limerence. Because it wasn’t a secret anymore anymore. I do get to enjoy the freedom of an authentic self with him, but for us it was at the expense of his romantic connection with me. And that must have been a hard pill to swallow — learning that the reason your wife has a high libido is because she secretly has this sexual attraction to another man. I honestly can’t blame him.
Hi Mila,
I’m really encouraged to hear your progress and that you can firmly say you think it is behind you!
I reckon another good test is to think how you’d feel if he stopped giving you the daily text breadcrumbs. Would this feel a relief or would you miss it and eventually instigate texts? With the distance you’ve now got, do you think an ongoing friendship with him is workable, or are you happier without it? Questions I feel I will eventually face!
So an update from LaR LaR land. For the first time since I came here, I cautiously feel some progress. I might be speaking too soon, but I have waited a while to say it so we’ll see. If the LE intensity was a curve I can slightly sense the turn into the downward part starting. I’m beginning to see the whole LO with flaws more, not only the idolised version. I am feeling a bit less affected by her behaviours and responses (positive and negative) and reducing the amount I do things (seek out, text) that leave me dependent on responses. I am also just starting to be able to concretely imagine a future where I can exit the LE at some point.
A helper has been holding myself to account more with SO
If I spend time with LO, I now always tell SO, which strips away the secrecy and makes it more part of real life (for newer readers, I was friends with my LO before I knew my SO, so while I have never told SO of my limerence, she has always known that LO plays a role in my life). I have also passed some significant anniversaries of the LE and the events that led to it starting which has caused me to reflect a lot.
All the above is happening ‘a bit’ more than ‘loads’, so I speak with caution. But the interesting thing is that it has happened without me really forcing it (which didn’t work before) but more naturally and of my free will (thanks due to Snowphoenix and Bewitched here).
My wish for LO to be my friend and in my life hasn’t diminished a bit yet, but, like you, friendship was there before LE. I seem to be reducing my limerence without affecting the friendship. Maybe I am just beginning to see the friendship more as she sees it – as simply a nice friendship but not the be all and end all. I still don’t know about whether she reciprocates any feelings, but that’s another progress marker because I am more at home with the fact I don’t know and may never know. LO seems unaffected by anything that might have leaked out from my side and very happy to be friends (I am questioning that less too, all the catastrophising of “what could I have done different? / “will she just bail on me?” has reduced – history tells me not).
I am sure the rollercoaster has more ups and downs to run and maybe I am just having an optimistic spell after an LC period, but its good to be able to say some positives for now.
Keep on keeping on Mila. It must be wonderful after ten whole years to see limerence as behind you 😀. Have a good day, LwL world.
„I reckon another good test is to think how you’d feel if he stopped giving you the daily text breadcrumbs. Would this feel a relief or would you miss it and eventually instigate texts? With the distance you’ve now got, do you think an ongoing friendship with him is workable, or are you happier without it?“
That’s funny as I was pondering the first question at the very moment!
One part of me feels of course kind of validated by his ongoing interest in keeping the daily contact, I feel on the „stronger side“ because he pursues it more than me, so I feel safe in his affection. But on the other hand it irks me. By this ongoing daily superficial contact I keep getting angry at him a bit (a sentiment that happened a bit too often in the last stage of this LE), it’s just too much exposure to someone who is neither my husband nor parents or children.
Especially since he kind of blocked all deeper conversations in the past. So there‘s as always a disbalance between the frequency and the depth of connection.
I get annoyed at him just sending pictures of some stage of setting up of his new home without comment, or like yesterday a picture where I was supposed to know what it was about, but I didn’t have a clue first, coming back completely exhausted from a demanding business trip. He seems to expect me to have all minutiae of his life in the foreground of my mind, and that‘s a bit too much. On the other hand, I know that that’s the way he shows affection, he lets me take part in his life. He can’t do more, as the restricted person he is. But it’s not my way of showing affection, and I thought about it just now- I would prefer much fewer but warmer contact. Because then we would really happy to hear from each other . Now it feels a bit like a habit and chore. I reacted a bit snippily yesterday and now he sulks a bit, I guess, and that’s not what I want, to reduce contact in a snippy way.
Maybe the „as if“ strategy is again the best- to act as if we already established the warm but few contacts. Meaning, reacting nicely to his texts without encouraging them, and myself initiating contact in a rhythm I think fitting.
There’s anyway us meeting in ten days, and as I wrote to Lovisa, it might well be that feelings awake, but I’m quite confident that I can handle it. I will just let them come and go because I know that they are a thing of the past that just rears its head again for a bit.
Yes, I‘m in a good place regarding this LE, and it does feel very good:)
Keep on riding the waves, and I think you can manage it, because I got the impression that your LO is a sensible one- being consistently there for you without encouraging limerence, it’s not the worst setting for keeping the friendship without limerence.
LaR, glad to hear you are also noticing progress and that you seem to have gained a peace of mind!
That’s a good point you make to Mila. I fear (since the beginning – I have my eyes open!) that I’ve also come to rely on the multiple-times/day attention my transferee gives me in the form of texts.
Mila, I also think, like you, that I am in fact his personal Instagram. He just needs to show his life to somebody and get approval/encouragement. I don’t have any problems in giving that to him. I did set some boundaries though, only recently(!): I told him to no longer text me after midnight. And before you get worked up – they are not booty call type texts, just perfectly normal stuff and good night wishes. But in any case I don’t want them that late. He knows I don’t open them until the morning anyway. He seemed fine with the restriction.
I’m not gonna lie, it is a bit flattering to know I am his last thought at night and first thought in the morning, but somehow despite this warning sign I don’t think he is limerent… Or am I being naive?
Ha, if I find myself having to cut ties with him, maybe I should just enforce more and more time limits gradually, until there is no longer any time window for texts!
Mila, you haven’t had any problems with texting times? Or you just take your time in replying anyway? (Which is probably the best solution for discouraging continuous texting)
Hi Trifles,
texting times weren’t a problem, mostly he‘s in bed anyway before midnight (having kids in school age does that), he texts at „normal“ times, seldom later than 11pm. In the high of limerence there were regular good night texts and kissing Emojis, but that’s in the past.
It might well be that your friend is limerent in his own way. We think only we can be as vulnerable and stupid, but don’t rule it out. We have to tread with consideration here, that’s why I don’t want to hurt my Ex-LO either (for example by being snippy like yesterday), in case he‘s still a bit limerent.
Thanks for your insight, Mila! I am treading carefully and with consideration. If he is in fact limerent “in his own way”, I think it’s a good step to help him to avoid thinking about me at night.
He has kids as well, but he’s also going through a crisis to which he’s reacting in a way I’ve seen lots of men react – by going out drinking. Hence his good night messages (that he seems to like to send) sometimes come quite late… Now that I think about it, in addition to being an Instagram, I must also be some type of safety blanket for him.
He needed a lot of support recently, and he got it from others as well, not just me. In fact I’m almost envious of how easy it is for him to ask for help!
I suppose after the initial need for support, texting me became a habit.
@Trifles,
Solute to your boundaries!
If I were you, I would think about his texting after midnight from a different angle:
“I have inside me something kind/empathetic, substantial, mature that he (and others) just could not help think about even in bed — It’s an external validation!” I would try to avoid using the phases like “being flattered”, regardless where “flattery” comes from; we do not need flattery in any forms from anyone.
While appreciating others’ sincere and substantial compliments and mental supports (openly or quietly), like what Bewitched puts it: simply enjoy liking (while not inflating our ego), we still need/want to continue cultivating our own self-validating, self-confidence, and self-esteem no matter at what age.
I just saw Jane Fonda (87) on TV, after the most entertaining, hilarious US presidential debate (I still couldn’t stop laughing), every part of her and her talk shined with self-confidence and self-worth, along with normal human vulnerability…
🫂
Dear all,
This is an interesting discussion on former LOs being friends.
For me, I am continuing to progress despite some contact with my LO. I think they key stages in the recovery were:
i) Taking LO off a pedestal and realising that he is not a good fit for me – which I always knew of course but pushed to the back of my mind. Accepting that he is nice and I like him (so no need to demonise him) but he would drive me mad in a real life partnership, was the first step to freedom
ii) Accepting that I will never know what he thinks of me and that’s ok, letting go of the need to know the answer to this, was the most important step. One of the most powerful reinforcements of this is the logic that, even if he was mad about me (like he sometimes acts), it will all pass since we are not that compatible in many ways. I mean, if there was a nuclear holocaust and we were left alone to survive on planet earth, I think we would get a long quite well, but it would take something of that magnitude 😀
iii) Accepting that he does clearly like me, so why not enjoy that? We relate to each other better now that things have “calmed down”. So it is my mission to keep things civil and warm. This is easier to do if keep reinforcing points i) and ii) above.
iv) Its really important to replace all that validation that LO gave me with self acceptance, self appreciation, self cultivation and to live my best life. The satisfaction that provides makes me less dependent on externalities. Purposeful living is not just doing stuff you believe in. Its also addressing our deep psychological weaknesses about acceptance, being loved, etc. Like, leaning into having fun or regularly hanging out with people who love you was a really important healer for me.
Its such a relief to have my faculties back and be more fully aware of everything else around me. It seems like many of us here are making real progress. Anyone who is experiencing set-backs, I think that they are inevitable, but just keep plugging away. Eventually the fog will clear.
Hi Bewitched,
I even think you made better progress than me because I seem to veer into the opposite direction a bit too much, I still have resentful feelings cropping up as I described, maybe kind of payback for all the months he gave me just that little bit less back than I gave, a kind of having enough of the whole business, while he didn’t know the full extent of my turmoil and is just consistently the same passive and a bit restricted person he is.
I‘d like it better if I could be as amiable as you, but I‘m on my way, I really think now that the daily texting doesn’t help friendship, it needs reducing, but I have to manage it in a warm way.
The desire to know what he feels or thinks about me is completely gone, partly because I think I know anyway, and partly because I don’t care that much anymore.
With the last dinner and my gift I seem to have made my inner closure,after that I would have been sort of ok with not having contact again.
It would have been a pity since we are old friends and it wasn’t my goal , but now I can imagine it without too much pain. I would be a bit sad and I wouldn’t want life to go that way, but it wouldn’t be the loss I imagined it to be only months ago.
That answers maybe also the last of LaRs questions.
Hey Mila,
I think that maybe there are broader things afoot – maybe you are in a little bit of a ‘down’ phase, not just with (ex)LO but also in general (overworked, under-stimulated perhaps now that the romantic longing has calmed down?)?
I read your comments a few days ago about feeling okay with the fact that the nubile younger colleagues seem to be attracting the male gaze. I know what you mean – heck – they attract everyone’s gaze, my own included 🙂 But the reason for this, I feel, is their confidence in their own attractiveness. Even the plain ones project sexual energy, its astounding. And I think for older women that this can be a bit of a harsh kick to one’s self esteem, no matter how we rationalise that away (it used to bother me a little bit). But not any longer and I seem to have moved past that somehow. It could be my hormones! Though I prefer to think that this was about taking more agency and getting my life back. I mean, objectively, older women are also attractive in different ways so why not channel that :D?!
I think that you may be due a little ‘Mila time’ where you do things for you. To be honest, your life does seem very full of social stuff (way more than mine) 🙂 Going out with friends and having a laugh, or if time is short, staying in – e.g. meeting your favourite work colleagues more regularly for coffee and having a laugh might be a good start?
I do not mean to be patronising and I hope you do not feel that way. I just so relate to what you are writing and I so recognise your headspace. I feel that moving past this general phase will be your next step. LO is almost a side-show?
Hi Bewitched,
I don’t feel patronized at all, I‘m just touched! It’s good that someone recognizes that I’m a bit worn out.
While I‘m in a good place concerning limerence, I‘m quite exhausted at the moment and don’t feel very comfortable in my body, having gained a few pounds due to stress eating and generally getting older.
I know I do look very young for my age (I also know that everyone claims that, but it’s true,sorry:), and I think I‘m still attractive even for younger men, but now in an „attractive older woman“ way, not an equal way. I‘m a bit scared of menopause, everyone telling me that it‘s going to be tough and everything just gets worse.
And I get a bit depressed when I see old people who used to be vibrant and full of life and now slowly dim down, get confused and weary, and I know that’s waiting for all of us.
My social battery is a bit exhausted too, having spent the whole summer looking after other people‘s needs (family, one teenage kid being sometimes very sensitive etc, old parents)and now a week at the work trip too (my young colleagues like to choose me as confidante for several secret crisises, and although I‘m glad they trust me, sometimes it’s a bit tiring), where social skills were needed a lot on this trip. I’m good at it, but now I feel a bit spent.
I know that I should simply be thankful for having the opportunity for trips like this and for my family and lovely colleagues, and I am.
But it’s really necessary now to focus on eating more healthy and moving a lot more.
Coffee with co-workers is exactly what I did the whole last week, it’s good not to see them for a while 🙈 I need to get out of the rut of being tired, eat unhealthy and not moving my body on account of tiredness.
I’ll concentrate on celebrating that I’m at least limerence-free, and on moving. In fact, I’ll start with a walk right now.
Thanks for listening to me, Bewitched!
@Bewitched,
So happy to hear your progress! I think your profound four points are ultimate goals for a recovery of limerence episode and a substantial growth as a human being. I found the #4 is especially important, since it will bring out the prior 3 progresses.
🫂
@Mila,
Everyone’s energy is limited. I think you need more time to yourself, physically, socially and mentally. Then your mind will be rested more and have more space… then you would hear more of your deep voices, face and sit with them, and let go what is not needed or wanted.
Please forgive me if I sounded patronizing or preaching….
🫂
I’m happy to hear LaR land’s news, glad to be a bit of assistance. I always appreciated your sharp questions, which in return helps me.
Keep feeding your Athena, along with your other deities; each of them has their unique functions, keeping our psyche balanced.
As you see, my grammatical errors have caused misunderstandings (e.g. in LE research project), please keep checking my ESL comprehension if it’s not too much of time-consuming; sometimes I was not sure if I understood correctly others’ subtle messages or meanings in between sentences or it was simply my HSP reactions.
There is a good article in NYT today: A ‘Dopamine Fast’ Will Not Save You From Addiction —
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/13/opinion/addiction-dopamine-brain-chemistry.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&ngrp=mnp&pvid=7CDE20D5-961C-426A-B169-7DB724070C9D
@Snow,
Hope you’ve had a good week.
Yes, I feel Athena is in the picture more at the moment. Thank you for the link – i’ll have a look 👀
I am happy to check your ESL comprehension of things if you like, but would never want to patronise. Also I feel like it is normally pretty accurate. I can only speak for our own posts to each other, but whenever there has been anything potentially misunderstood, we have asked each other nicely and been able to clarify it. You have never responded to anything else of mine in a way that implies you misunderstood me.
I do occasionally intervene when I think others are really misunderstanding each other if I think I can help.
@Mila,
Your impression of my LO as consistently there for me without encouraging limerence is a good one. I used to think there was more encouragement but I think that’s more likely because my brain was in the euphoric bit of the cycle where everything gets confused, more than that she objectively did anything different then to now. Getting past constantly obsessing about how she feels or how it could be different if we were available has been quite a big step as Bewitched also says. I feel I have about three months consistent progress on this one now.
The whole thing is still there, it just feels like the volume is turned down a couple of notches. I simply can’t convince myself that cutting her out is better overall for me than not (says Athena) – for now at least, haven’t ruled it out for the future. So I have given up trying to convince myself and am just working on all we’ve discussed before to reduce the intensity steadily. Talking to people here and getting the sense of collective wisdom is helpful.
@Snow,
I just checked ‘limerence research project’ to see what you meant. To be fair I’d say the way you originally put the “train wreck” statement would be correctly interpreted – as about the survey, not the person – by well over 50% of people, probably much higher %. Nothing was ungrammatical about it. If you wanted to put firmer emphasis on the survey and remove doubt, you could have put “I feel there must be something wrong with the design of a survey that leaves several of its respondents apparently feeling like a train wreck”.
If it helps, I also quit the survey as soon as I saw the very transparent ways it tried to manipulate the brain. It didn’t personally cause discomfort but did cause irritation!
@LaR
Thank you for taking time to check my grammar mistakes there, your correction makes it so much clearer.
I meant the mistakes made as the following:
******
Malibu says
SEPTEMBER 2, 2024 AT 3:44 AM
Done. Sure I am not the only one who felt like a train wreck taking it but then again, I am an overthinker! Oh well, day by day I battle the end of a mutual limerent. Peace and Calm is slowly returning… I think. Time to listen to Post Malone – Circles. Peace to you all!
REPLY
Snowpheonix says
SEPTEMBER 2, 2024 AT 12:29 PM
I don’t understand why taking a survey has made some of us feeling “like a train wreck”; then how could our answers be “accurate” out of such an agitation??
I dislike some of the questions —they’re breakers to our hard-gained peace.
Peace 🧘♂️ 📿
REPLY
Malibu says
SEPTEMBER 3, 2024 AT 2:10 AM
because I am still in the throes of coming out of limerence. finding reality over fantasy once again. plain and simple, my process. to each their own in healing.
REPLY
Snowpheonix says
SEPTEMBER 3, 2024 AT 2:35 AM
I think you might misunderstood my previous post. I was complaining about the survey, not why you felt the way you did, which was also how I felt (“some of us” was including me). It annoyed me and broke my newly-gained peace (while trying to answer some questions). I felt consoled that I was not alone feeling this way.
I aborted the survey (not sure a half way through, or less or more), and dis not want to read the rest of it. I probably won’t open any future surveys related to limerence.
Snowpheonix says
SEPTEMBER 3, 2024 AT 2:49 AM
Rephrasing my statement here: I don’t understand why and how a survey has made some of us feeling “like a train wreck”. How could our answers be “accurate” out of such an agitation?
Some of its questions sounded to me like what would be asked in a therapy room. It is a survey, not a therapist.
********
The difference here is: “the survey has made us…” vs. “taking the survey has made us…” (which upset Malibu, rightfully). My meaning is a survey should not make “taking it” feeling like being triggered or manipulated or like a “train wreck”.
Snow,
I see what you mean – ‘taking’ the survey puts a bit of emphasis on the person / process, whereas your revised ‘the survey’ removes the doubt.
This is a bit technical but in English we can have an inanimate noun (like a survey) “doing” the verb – so we can say ‘the survey made me feel …’, but not all languages would allow that construction and might need an animate (alive/human) noun/noun phrase before the verb. Think about it for your first language and see how/if it (“the survey made me feel”) translates, and whether it would be a legit sentence.
Try not to see your ESL as a hindrance. I can’t imagine how hard it must be to write about the massive emotional topics covered here in a non first language but you do just fine. English has no objective superiority to any other language just as no LO has objective superiority over any other (apart from mine of course 😅 )
@LaR
“I see what you mean – ‘taking’ the survey puts a bit of emphasis on the person / process, whereas your revised ‘the survey’ removes the doubt.”
Yep, different subjects target on two different objects! In my mother tongue, you can’t blame an object for anything, positive or negative, unless you physically or mentally interact with it, and your reaction as a result of interaction makes an object “good” or “bad”.
LO did not do anything to us, particularly when we glimmered at them; but our active XXX-sized “crush” led us into obsession/limerence with them. (I’m not ignoring tricks some dodgy LO played after they sense our infatuation).
Snow,
You are a step cleverer than me there – I put the LO reference at the end of my last reply just as a joke to keep it relevant to this site. I failed to think of the connection between limerent *object* and *object* of the sentence and how people’s subconscious use of language shows how they feel about “who does what to who” in LEs.
I was about to disagree with you that LOs don’t ‘do anything to us’ with an example of all the dodgy LOs and their antics as described by DrL. But I then thought more about what you meant and realised – the same dodgy LO could try all the same tricks on two people, and with one it would all bounce off them, with the other they’d fall deep into limerence. So yes, it IS all in how we react! We might not be able to control the reaction but it is still OUR reaction that determines if limerence occurs.
Here’s another language issue – about ‘the glimmer’. You wrote “when we glimmered at them” and I think by this (correct me if wrong) you mean the moment when you (limerent) first found the LO attractive. I’d phrase the same thing as “LO glimmered at/for me” by which I’d mean something caused my brain to feel its first spark of attraction to the LO. To me, if “I glimmer at them” it means the other way round (they found me attractive). This isn’t just a difference in phrasing between you and I, or an ESL thing. My way might not be right as I am out of line with many LwL posters. The phrasing is used massively inconsistently by lots of posters. I have settled on boring but easier expression “the glimmer happened” now!
I kind of know this isn’t true now but I spent many months harbouring the idea that at the exact moment I had the glimmer, LO also did – like it was a moment that passed between us where we both understood the situation exactly the same. Then Athena says – “this is just Aphrodite trying to trick Zeus” and I know she’s right.
My Apollo enjoys languagey stuff as you can tell.
@LaR
“the same dodgy LO could try all the same tricks on two people, and with one it would all bounce off them, with the other they’d fall deep into limerence. So yes, it IS all in how we react! We might not be able to control the reaction but it is still OUR reaction that determines if limerence occurs.”
Yes, you’ve got what I meant. Reaction to a reality appears “real/objective” (after being digested/reacted in our mind), but it is not an objective reality out there, in just about all aspects of life.
About who glimmered at whom, I had exactly confusion like yours. Initially, I thought it is LO glimmered to my eyes (alone), shinning like a comet ☄️ . Then after learning more about LE process, I came to see that it was our subconscious, instinctual “explosion” that brought glimmering (at LO) into our eyes, thus DrL describes it as “glimmered at” LO. In this way, the focus is not on LO, but our REACTION to LO, either physical or mental/emotional.
In my cases, it took sometime for LO (a few minutes, days or months) to even know my existence, so I definitely had no excuse to blame them for my mysterious glimmer and attraction. Some LOs (Sensor) responded my glimmer because their humanistic ego just LOVE a limerent’s gigantic infatuation with them. I did CATCH the latest LO’s glittering eyes when he spotted (chatting with another in the hallway) my glimmering at him in that moment as I was passing them. I knew instinctively, he was “glimmering” at my glimmering smile at/for him, not ME as a person (proved later). But at the time, Aphrodite told me that he was mutually glimmering back at me… then later on, the fated events and more interactions with LO led me further into the third stage of LE. Again, I can’t blame LO alone, even if he is a Sensor.
“My Apollo enjoys languagey stuff as you can tell.”
I love language as well; speaking in another foreign tongue always exotically appeals to me, the sounds of Romance languages are just so much more attractive than my native tongue. Then the culture behind those languages also play a critical role in my thinking/feeling — switches between using the two — I would have never be able to say what I have said accumulatively in LwL in my native tongue, I know why….
Oh wow Snow, that’s a thinker!
So yes, we can agree it that the said ‘glimmering’ happens internally, and the LO doesn’t do anything – or anything deliberate – to cause it (exceptions may apply), and may not see or otherwise witness it at the time.
Even with that understanding in place, my chosen formulation “LO glimmered for me” can be broken down as:
‘LO glimmered …’ (there was something about her/him at that moment)
‘…for me’ (that set something internal off or pushed one of my internal triggers).
Why I don’t prefer “I glimmered at LO” is that the word ‘at’ suggests LO would always see it – and we are talking about an internal (to the L) process. This way round, “I glimmered at the thought /sight/ prospect of her/him” seems more apt. I have seen others here use it like you do, so accept I am in the minority!
“I would have never be able to say what I have said accumulatively in LwL in my native tongue, I know why….”
Is it because a language only evolves words for ‘allowable thoughts’? So if a culture forbids thinking in a certain way, the words to do that thinking never come into existence? There are probably examples for you both ways round – like, concepts and words in your COO / first language that don’t translate (in thinking or words) to the Western world. And those would then be nearly impossible for you to express on LwL as accurately as you’d like?
English native speakers are often jealous of German language because of the rich long compound nouns – we’d need 9 words to express “the feeling of melancholy that a rainy day brings”. I just plucked this example out of the air and so I don’t know it to be true – but German probably has just one long noun to express these 9 words!
My current LO is likely one of the “impossible ideal” LOs. Honestly, this is the type of woman who walks into a man’s life maybe once in a lifetime. I want to be with her so badly it hurts. She is beautiful, fun, exciting, decent, classy, smart, successful, very funny and totally my type. She is also my age. What a perfect lady! This is the first LO I’ve had I could see having a serious relationship with. There’s just the barrier of my marriage. I am still trying to end it, but my wife will not see how futile the situation is (we’ve been living like roommates for about seven years).
What’s currently causing me grief is my LO’s fantastic awesomeness and some mixed signals she’s giving me. After not seeing her for two months, I’ve seen her two weekends in a row (and I was supposed to see her the weekend before that but the show we were supposed to go to got cancelled). She is getting more active in our chats too. I was thrilled to see her again. As I suspected, I think she was trying to get back with a guy she used to date who ended up very dodgy. She has cut all contact with him.
She sits beside me now, she hugs me goodbye and she stood beside me through two bands the other night, talking away to me. She also took off her jacket and she was wearing a rather tight t-shirt. I was on Cloud 9 after that. I told my friend I couldn’t have been happier with how the other night went. He even mentioned to me how well it seemed to go before I even mentioned anything to him.
The problem is she didn’t accept my Facebook friend request after that. She might not have seen it yet, but it’s been a while and I know she’s been online (I can see her activity because we’ve messaged each other in the past). Her best friend accepted my request right away. I know my LO is quite a private person, and I believe she is selective about whom she accepts friend requests from. But she is Facebook friends with many of my friends (including guys). It kind of put a damper on my happiness and excitement from the other night. I’m kind of sad actually. I know it’s just Facebook but it feels like a rejection. She might not have seen it yet, and she could just be waiting a bit (playing hard to get). I don’t know. She might also feel that we got a little too close the other night, and now she is dialling it back. She did once tell me she wouldn’t lead me on when I mentioned I was married, but she knows by now that my marriage is totally on the rocks. I still will not cheat, but maybe I am engaging in a bit of monkey branching here. The problem is this lady is so perfect for me. I’m besotted with her. This feels like how things were with LO #1.
I am thinking about going no contact now to get over her, but what would that achieve? I would eventually become limerent for someone else (someone likely less suitable), I want out of my marriage, I see her as a potential partner for a serious long-term relationship, and I would have to ditch my friends in order to do that. I so wish I could end my marriage. I wish I was single. I wish I was thinner and fitter. I wish I could just ask her out and just get over the rejection that would invariably come by dating someone else. Limerence is hell living in a dead marriage — especially with a “perfect” LO.
I just typed out a heartfelt reply to myself but I couldn’t post it because it was supposedly duplicate content. The gist of it was how I now realize just how much my limerence for LO #3 has become a destructive force in my life. There is no longer any pleasure here. It’s all pain. Time to focus on recovery and very low contact. I’ve cancelled my Facebook friend request to her and it felt great to get back some dignity and self-respect. I’m even considering blocking her so I don’t see that she’s online. There is nothing happy or optimistic about my LE. My only focus has to be on my situation and getting out of my marriage.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UVCX-3vhcQs&pp=ygUSaGVhdmVuIHNlbnQgZG9ra2Vu
This song makes me think of her. “Heaven sent but baby you’re not the one.”
Sounds like you have lots of upheaval going on Vicarious Limerent.
It was good to read that it was time for you to focus on recovery and there is nothing happy or optimistic about your LE.
I had to get to that point too before I actively did anything to push myself forward. I sat in limbo for a very long time waiting for some magical star alignment to make everything better.
The only force is in you.
I don’t have an SO so I can only imagine what you’re going through especially if your marriage is dead.
Sounds like you are going to sort through that before focusing on someone else. That’s a great idea. Could be that LO#3 is just a distraction.
Our minds work in mysterious ways.
Just my humble opinion but if you can go NC that would even be better. I’m not sure of your situation with your LO but the more you can avoid her the better.
I’ve been 10 months NC now and as I still have my not so good days, it’s so much better now! The fog is lifting and I’m actually engaging in life again.
I just wanted to chime in and let you know that I’ve been where you are now. Focus on yourself and the things you need to do to better YOUR life.
Cause that’s all that matters.
Thank you, Anna. I’ve thought about going no contact, but that would require me to have to lose my entire friend group. Instead, I’m going to focus on going low contact and reminding myself about the rejection and the one negative thing I can think of about my LO to try to get over her (she seems to like bad boys and that’s certainly not me). I’m not even saying she’s definitely off limits for me for all time, and it could be that she’s just afraid to get involved with a married man. There are some signs that she might like me. Having said that, I do need to focus on stopping the obsession over this woman, catching up at work, improving my finances, getting fitter and thinner and ending my marriage. Only then should I be thinking about someone else. It’s possible that LO #3 might be The One someday, but somehow I doubt it. For now, I have to take her rejection of my friend request at face value and use it as fodder for recovery.