Another visit to the virtual coffeehouse, where important issues of the day get decided by important people.
Today’s topic is stimulated by commenter Blue Ivy. She’s dealing with limerence for a boss who is apparently not interested in her romantically, but has now started getting jealous when she praises other men.
Blue Ivy is clear that this isn’t standard sexual jealousy over flirty behaviour – which would anyway be a bit rich considering LO is not in a relationship with her – but happens in response to ordinary professional praise of co-workers as part of the job. It takes the form of a noticeable withdrawal of camaraderie, and a reactive dislike of the men who were praised.
I think this is an interesting scenario, as it reveals a lot of subtleties around limerence reinforcement and limerence recovery.
First, Ivy’s LO could obviously sense her attraction to him and liked it. Even if he wasn’t intending to act on it. Even if – by her report – he isn’t generally a narcissist who seeks validation, he was still getting something out of her limerence in terms of emotional nourishment.
This might not be conscious on his part. He just feels good when Ivy is around being all friendly and supportive and interested and… well, into him. Limerence can charge us up with a sort of sparkly energy that can be very flattering and enjoyable for the LO to receive.
Naturally enough, the loss of that ego boost, and seeing the warmth being bestowed on other men, feels bad. LO might even feel a bit ashamed and guilty about his jealousy too, if he is self-aware enough to know it’s unjustified.
Many people act on such feelings by going into a sulk.
Second, from Ivy’s perspective, noticing jealousy in an LO is powerful reinforcement that jeopardises recovery. As she colourfully puts it:
The part of me that I want to eviscerate (LE in my brain), rises up from the dead with hope when that happens. Ugh.
If an LO is jealous, that means they care. It means they noticed your limerence, liked it, and don’t want to lose it, which means there is something there. Some recognition of a personal connection that has a element of intimacy. Some ember of attraction that could be fanned into life.
This is perilous for recovery, because just when you have accepted that you need to move on and that there is no future in pursuing the LO, their jealousy kicks in and makes you doubt your decision. Did you give up too soon?
Third, it helps illustrate that the road to recovery is rarely smooth, and has unexpected obstacles along the way. Relapses sometimes come from external forces we didn’t anticipate or mentally prepare for. An LO’s behaviour isn’t always predictable or rational. Sometimes, an LO won’t let go. That helps illustrate how valuable maintaining a recovery mindset is for staying the course.
In Blue Ivy’s case, I’m optimistic, because she is analysing the situation rationally, and even though the ups and downs of hope and frustration are turbulent, she is viewing her experience from the perspective of thwarted recovery. The story is one of delayed freedom, not a reversal of fortune.
But overall, there’s no avoiding the fact that an LO’s behaviour can hinder your recovery.
So, that’s the topic for discussion: how best to handle a jealous LO, how to resist the temptation of backsliding, and how to judge what their jealousy means about how they feel about you.
Would you complain? Ignore it? Use it as deprogramming material?
If you’ve had your own experience with a jealous LO, let us know how you managed…
My LO used to act jealous, too, Make little comments about other men talking to me or ask questions to see if I was dating someone. And like Blue Ivy, I’d have little moments of hope and renewed excitement. “Oh, my, gosh, after all this time he still cares!” But when I came down off of that, I had to ask myself: What exactly is he doing? And the answer was … the same as what he was doing before. Nothing had changed. We were right back to where we were before. Me hoping against any rational hope that something would happen between us … and him, well, doing nothing.
If an LO has already established a pattern of behavior, that is what you need to be paying attention to. Not these little blips of their random emotion or attention. Those little blips will set you back and are like a big old bowl of brownies … just empty calories devoid of nutrition.
Agree 100%
Very wise comment Bobbie.
I should ask myself when I see that -“so what changes?” The answer is “nothing”. Good point.
When I was in the throes of my last LE I reached the point where I was actively trying to escape. LO was clearly jealous of other fellows that I might speak with or even would assume I could be interested in . Of course I thought “if you are jealous, it proves you care!”. Well now I realize he indeed cared about keeping me as his number one fan, his sounding board, cheerleader, and enthralled audience. That was my job and I was not allowed to slack off and certainly not allowed to quit!
I realize I was like a valued employee of his business and the perks and rewards of employment were designed to keep me from finding another job. Even though he evidently wasn’t interested romantically, he hinted that he was, and was charmingly possessive which thrilled me to the core and made me rethink my plans for escape… Over and over and over again.
The truth is: if a person shows signs of jealousy and are free to make a move of interest and they don’t, they aren’t actually “into you”. They are just into what they get out of you.
It’s a pretty solid test, isn’t it? If they resent other people having your attention, but don’t actually make a romantic move themselves, then it’s the attention they are jealous of.
ETA: your LO was a full on narc, though, wasn’t he Jaideux? So even more blatant in his greed for attention.
I don’t think he was a malignant narc or whatever they call it. I think he was just addicted to having people swoon over him and he justified it by showering them with kindnesses (which made them swoon more) and he thought he was a nice person that happened to have a lot of people besotted with him. He also had a secret stubborn and defiant side that refused to listen to reason when cautioned about this hurtful behaviour. He surely was somewhere on the narc spectrum.
I actually don’t know who/what he really is/was, and I am so glad to be NC and no longer feel like I have to solve this mystery.
Limerence free and walking tall!!!
(But ever on guard!)
I really like this Jaideux! Such a succinct description of what I also believe an attention loving LO mentality can be. You have a great insight into his perspective… maybe one of his worst failings was not also taking the effort to see the relationship from your perspective. Some people are bad at that which makes them more thoughtless and a bit self centred rather than full-on narcissists.
I think if my LO were to express jealousy, I’d try to quash any immediate hopeful thought of “Oh my gosh, he still cares!” and try to reframe it as, “Oh my gosh, this actually shows how little he cares.”
In other words, I’d use it as deprogramming material. I’d tell myself that any jealousy on LO’s part is only because wants to keep me on the back-burner to call up whenever he needs an ego-boost. That would prove he doesn’t care at all about my happiness, just his own.
Yeah, that’s a good way of framing it. The jealousy is triggered because he’s losing what he wants from you, And he’s still not giving anything.
Jealousy from an LO was a turn-off for me, too. A natural deprogramming opportunity. LO#1 expressed jealousy toward my husband. It felt odd and confusing. My husband plays a key role in my well being. If LO cared about me, wouldn’t he want my primary relationship to thrive?
Jealousy reveals selfishness. I like Stephanie’s idea to use it for deprogramming.
That’s a very good way of looking at it. I think in some cases that is so true, it certainly resonates. Thank you!
It may be somewhat simpler.
If he’s a boss, in his eyes, her praising other workers could be seen as disloyalty. He just wants everybody’s eyes on him.
People in positions of power often don’t want other stars around them shining with there own light. The want perfect moons reflecting their light off them.
He punishes her and diminishes the object of her attention. Limerence is in her mind, not his.
I thought this might be the case with LO #4 and her high-profile BF. As she began to come into her own, the more he subtly sabotaged her.
That’s true. It may not be about Blue Ivy’s romantic interest, specifically. It could be professional jealousy too.
It’s probably not ideal but when out at a club/bar with LO present (but not there with me) I’ve chatted up other people knowing that’ll lead to interest and potentially a bit of action with LO, my last one certainly could usually be counted on to make a move if it looked like I might be getting attention elsewhere. So I sometimes engineered it.
That’s a very good way of looking at it. I think in some cases that is so true, it certainly resonates. Thank you!
Jealousy is a strange thing from an LO. I have been limerent for my current LO for probably 18 months. What really got me hooked was her flirting with me. Up to that point, I thought she was attractive and fun, but I never seriously thought of her as LO material for some reason. But there is that incredible aphrodisiac Dr. L discussed at one point (the thought that someone might fancy you). Once that kicked in I was done! All of her flirtation was cloaked in plausible deniability, but it was pretty clear to me, and I am positive it wasn’t all my imagination.
However, my LO hasn’t flirted with me in a long time. Sure, we are very close as friends, and we have spent quite a bit of time one-on-one, often discussing some pretty personal things. I still do say some extremely flirtatious things to her at times, but they are usually framed as joking. Yet I’m pretty sure she actually enjoys it when I flirt with her or say complimentary things about her appearance, etc.
She has made it clear I am not her type (without telling me outright, but she has said several times what her type actually is and it certainly isn’t me). As mentioned, she no longer really flirts with me, although she does seem to like it when I flirt with her. The funny thing is that I know for certain that she is jealous when I talk about other women. She always has that telltale jealous look on her face that is absolutely unmistakable. I have often wondered why that is? Does she actually like me too? I have heard little hints from a mutual friend of ours that she might not be averse to something with me if my situation was different. It could be that the feeling is mutual to a certain extent, but I have also heard from at least a couple of women in this community that women do sometimes get jealous of men they know are attracted to them when they seem to have moved on from them and are attracted to someone else. I think I have felt that to a certain extent too. Everyone enjoys an ego boost, even if it is from someone who might not be your type. Knowing that you don’t have an exclusive on someone you thought was totally into you might be a blow to the ego. But is that narcissism or just normal human behaviour?
Totally normal human behaviour for sure. We all want to be special don’t we? If you felt special with someone and that is taken away, you miss it and thus seek it out again. Regardless of whether you see them as a friend, co-worker or potential romantic partner. It is always pleasurable, thus we always tend to be drawn to it.
I also think so much of this behaviour is subconscious and most people are not really fully aware of what they are doing and why. Sometimes we just like being around someone because doing so makes us feel good.
Wanting to feel special does not make someone a narcissist. That is a whole other level of conscious, planned and deliberate behaviour – an machiavellian campaign to cultivate unhealthy attachment.
Narcissism it is for me. A girl did it to me.
@Allie 1: I tend to agree with you. I don’t think it is necessarily narcissistic to enjoy the fact that someone likes you.
“We all want to be special don’t we? If you felt special with someone and that is taken away, you miss it and thus seek it out again. ”
Allie1,
Agree. Thats why life transitions are so tough. I used to be pretty possessive of my “best friends” but that fell off over the years as I (hopefully) got enough maturity to realize that I was smothering them. I don’t feel that way about any friends at all. A bit initislly about LO 😉 but that’s going away now too.
Dr L,
I feel honored that you wrote this case study about this situation of mine!
You are spot on and everything you say makes total sense.
“personal connection that has a element of intimacy” …. yes there is definitely an element of intimacy & trust. I am his confidante. He cares about me, but in a very older brother way. That’s why this subtle but unmistakable jealousy does not seem to fit in. But your explanation makes sense.
The last few days have been good for LE. I don’t know what shifted but somehow I can feel a little diminished attraction towards him. There’s also a chance I may end up changing departments & working for someone else. Which will be a HUGE step forward. And when I heard about it, I just felt excited about the change not like missing him. So there’s light at the end of the tunnel.