Today’s case study is from Louis, who got in touch because he’s been burned by limerence and now fears it has soured his whole attitude to love and romance.
As background, Louis is in his 20s, but hasn’t had a long-term relationship yet. To get some obvious objections out of the way, Louis has heard from female friends that he is an attractive and likeable guy – “It shouldn’t be hard for you” – but somehow he’s never got the stars to align in just the right way to end up with a mutual connection.
Here’s his perspective:
I initially went through a period of embracing my single status. I focused on myself and building a better life, it felt good. Yet, I kept feeling steeped in loneliness and longing for a connection. So I would let my heart lead me and try to get to know the women around me I felt drawn to.
Well, that’s certainly a positive response to single life. Focusing on yourself and building a better (purposeful) life is a great way to improve both your own mood and the appeal you will likely have for others. But, the benefits of purposeful living don’t negate the desire for romantic connection, and so he’s tentatively opened his heart…
However, my romantic experiences have turned out to be a sequence of unrequited limerences. I’ve repeatedly had to let go and snuff out the sparks of connection I’d form with people. They usually weren’t interested or worse, already had partners. I’m starting to wonder if it’s a bad thing to follow my heart: it just ends painfully.
I often point out that statistically the likeliest outcome of any romantic overture is failure, and that this is no reflection on your appeal or value as a potential partner. But that’s cold comfort. Knowing the odds are against you is all very well, but too much rejection is painful and demoralising.
I’ve wished one day my luck would turn around and I’d get a crush on someone who’d reciprocate… I tried dating apps and I’ve found myself dealing with another painful unfulfilled limerent experience. It brings down my mood and ruins this time which should be exciting and fulfilling. I feel a renewed conviction to stop this cycle.
Yet, I feel helpless and lonely, I hate it. I don’t know what to do: love is killing me. I so desperately want to love someone, feel confident in experiencing love and believe it’s possible for me. I don’t want to lose faith, but I wonder what love looks like when trusting my heart seems to be constantly leading me astray.
Louis’s situation is probably familiar to many single limerents. It is a common problem to get stuck in limerence limbo because you have fixated on an unavailable LO, but the power of limerent attraction is so strong that they are all you want.
Repeated rounds of this cycle wear you down, and make you feel like you are losing precious time and opportunities for finding real happiness. However, the unshakable, addictive draw of LO just feels too irresistible to consider other possible partners. Eventually, the exquisite pain of limerence sours your whole attitude to love. What can be done?
I’d say there are three absolutely key questions to answer to make progress on this problem.
1. Who glimmers for you?
One possible reason for Louis’s cycle of unrequited connection is that he consistently feels the glimmer for unavailable women. That could be coincidence, but it could also be revealing something about what his own personal limerence triggers. If the unavailability of a woman makes them especially appealing, it’s inevitable that you will get trapped in cycles of frustrated desire.
It could be that they are unavailable because of an existing relationship, or because they are uninterested in Louis, or because they are just not looking for romance. Similarly, there are lots of possible reasons why aloof people may have particular appeal. Perhaps you are drawn to avoidant personality types? Perhaps you want to save someone who seems lost in love? Perhaps you want a “safe” romance where there is no possibility that you will have to actually form a relationship? Perhaps you desire people who already have the validation of a partner, so you covet them more.
Spending time wrestling with these (somewhat unflattering) possibilities is worthwhile. Now is not the time to accept ego-protecting rationalisations about why LO always seems out of reach, you have to face your fears and understand them. What factors within your locus of control are contributing to a pattern of infatuation for unavailable LOs?
As a final note, a particularly difficult situation is when an unavailable LO nonetheless telegraphs their romantic interest in you as a single limerent, drawing you into a seesaw of hope and uncertainty. The combination of forbidden fruit, spiced with occasion hints of interest, and shot through with the intoxicating liquor of obsessive rumination, is basically a recipe for the limerence cocktail.
Getting to the bottom of what kind of person causes the glimmer for you is an essential step in understanding the cycles of behaviour that trap you.
2. How do you respond to the glimmer?
Another factor in why mutual connection can fail is how you react when you first feel the glimmer.
Once someone has stimulated limerent interest, there are a lot of possible ways to respond. You could immediately declare your romantic interest, and try to find out their situation and whether they are attracted too. You could recognise the frisson of excitement, but try and keep it in check while you concentrate on getting to know them a little better before making a move. You could react with fear, get hyper-cautious, and try to cultivate a friendship in the hope that it might later develop into something more. You could get nervous and uncomfortable and clam up and avoid them. You could see the glimmer as a threat, and deliberately avoid them.
Most of us just react instinctively in these situations. We don’t think or act with purpose, we follow habits laid down by past experience. I’m guessing that if Louis has been through multiple rounds of disappointment, he is more cautious than confident when confronted with a new LO.
How you first engage with a new LO will determine their perception of you, how they respond to you, and set the terms of your future relationship. There is a Goldilocks element to this, but for most people, moving too fast or moving too slow is off-putting.
Fortunately, there is a straightforward solution to this problem: be authentic.
3. What you are seeking and what are you broadcasting?
Clarifying what you are really seeking is an important first step in authenticity. If you are after the thrills of limerence and dizzying intoxication, then you must seek the glimmer and live with the consequences. If you are looking for long-term stable love then the glimmer has almost no predictive value for the likelihood of finding a good match.
Once you are clear on what you really want, then behave accordingly. Avoid games or tactics that you think might improve your chances of seducing someone. If you are romantically interested in them, don’t try to become their friend in order to “transition” later. Be upfront. Most people prefer it, and it has the huge advantage that you will come across as sincere and so attract sincere people to you. How you behave will broadcast your character and your openness to connection.
That brings us to a last important factor: Louis has previously missed the signs that women are interested in him. Friends have told him after the fact – he “only hears by proxy from afar”. Some people are not good at spotting romantic interest in others, and so miss opportunities that they are not even aware are open.
While missing cues is one thing, another issue is that people tend to broadcast their interest based on the signals they are receiving from you – if you are giving off “I’m obsessed with her and not open to other offers” vibes, then any interested parties could be put off.
As a final irony, unsuitable LOs are some of the most blatant broadcasters of romantic vibes of all, meaning those with underpowered “spotters” only pick up on the cues from the narcissists, love bombers, or “radio save me” limerent objects.
A path forwards
Should Louis give up on love?
No.
Nice, unequivocal answer.
Love is wonderful, and essential to human thriving. You can find it in lots of forms, cope without it, and a bad relationship is worse than no relationship, but a meaningful, deep romantic connection is undeniably life enriching. It hurts like a bastard when it goes wrong, but that doesn’t mean you should abandon hope.
I’m going to go out on a limb and guess at Louis’s motives at this point, and assume that he wants the limerent unicorn: to feel the glimmer for someone, connect naturally, experience mutual limerence, and then revel in the euphoria of ecstatic union until it transforms into a more stable form of mutual love.
Answering the three questions above should help figure out whether this is possible.
In general, if you realise that you are especially drawn to unavailable women, then unfortunately the glimmer is a warning for you to avoid intimacy with them and look elsewhere. If you respond to the glimmer by retreating inwards, daydreaming and hoping but delaying action, then you will both amplify limerence and miss your window of opportunity to be seen as a romantic prospect. Finally, if you hide your true feelings and motives then you run the risk of putting off good partners and attracting inappropriate ones.
If, in contrast, you realise that there are some glimmery LOs who could be a healthy match, that your response to them could be tweaked to find the Goldilocks moment for revealing your interest, and you generally behave in an authentic and straightforward manner when socialising with other single people, then you just might hit the jackpot!
Further reading:
Limerence for unhealthy people
Chemistry versus compatibility
How to get over someone who doesn’t want you
Case study: Is my current relationship bound to be unfulfilling because it is non-limerent?
My guess is that he’s only interested in LOs. He is thinking he has to glimmer in order to pursue someone. That the glimmer means it’s the real deal. And if he is consistenly glimmering for unavailable LOs, I’d take that as a sign he needs to avoid LOs, lest he spend years of his life ruminating over people he can’t have. Unfortunately, some people do not glimmer for healthy options. In fact, I think that’s probably true for a lot of people.
So I’d look around at other options — women he’s still interested in but not limerent for and women who are also interested in him and go from there.
Waiting around for mutual limerence … who knows when and if that will happen, and even if it does, when the limerence fades, there’s no guarantee the LO will be a good, long-term parnter.
Hi Marcia,
Case-study Louis here. Thanks for your comment.
You make a good point and you’re right: I often form feelings around that glimmer. I suppose, if I’m honest: I don’t really know any other way to fall in love…
It’s funny, I’m very cautious with women from the outset. If someone shows interest initially, I prefer to take it slowly and assess; I can easily be sceptical of reciprocation (unless I had a prior limerent interest). A glimmer might form after, but because I wasn’t interested initially, it seems to turn people away.
Most of the time I can get over unavailable LOs quite easily. That’s not as much of a problem, although it’ll come with a fair amount of disappointed baggage and thoughts of ‘maybe I could sway them’. Thankfully, nowadays I can see through those far better than I used to.
What’s harder is ‘losing’ someone who is available, because it seems to ingrain this idea that I’m not worthy of love. Even when the outside world is telling me I am, my experience suggests otherwise.
I’m in this limbo, where I’m mistrustful of love that I haven’t had a chance to own (by ‘own’ I mean emotionally chosen) – if that makes sense.
My emotional ideal is mutual limerance. My romantic experience has taught me that investment in someone means more than reciprocation. Obviously, in reality, that just isn’t true as it will fade regardless.
I sway between feelings of wanting to try, but getting too invested and hurt and then wanting to set myself free from the pressure of external validation and not bother. Leaving aside issues of lack of experience etc. and justifying that it isn’t really going to make me feel any better anyway.
I’m not sure what the ‘right’ thing to do is. Religious people seem to do fine with abstinence, so maybe putting my romantic-side to bed and being patient with the world isn’t a bad thing. Then again, I don’t want to avoid something for the sake of sparing myself the discomfort.
“My emotional ideal is mutual limerance. ”
Me, too, and I’m 107 and I’ve never come close. 🙂 I’ve had LOs reciprocate interest in various forms but they were never limerent.
If you had a history of becoming limerent and the LOs feeling strongly about you (if not necessarily limerent) and then it moving into a relationship and, once the limerence faded, you had a good, solid partnership, I’d say keep doing what you are doing.
But since that hasn’t happend … I’d filter for someone you find appealing, who you like, whose company you enjoy, who is interested in you .. but who doesn’t necessarily knock you over immediatley. There’s definite interest. You’re looking forward to the date. It shouldn’t feel like a chore. You’re just not limerent but your feelings could grow.
“A glimmer might form after, but because I wasn’t interested initially, it seems to turn people away.”
It’s not so binary, is it? It’s not limerence or nothing intially?
‘It’s not so binary, is it? It’s not limerence or nothing initially?’
You’re right, I can still be attracted to people on a spectrum. I just seem to find when I try to get myself out of a limerent mindset, I’ll focus on getting to know the person first.
So I can be quite distanced in the beginning (as to avoid becoming too invested) and any initial interest (from them) I am slightly sceptical of, especially when I’ve only just met someone: it’s partly fear (I don’t know what to do with it) and I don’t want to fuel another limerent cycle.
However, it’s very common for my initial distance to come off as lack of interest. I often look for the other person to step forward despite that, so that I can see if it’s worth building a connection. But they never do, so I’m starting to wonder if it ever will work that way!
‘It shouldn’t feel like a chore’
I completely agree! In a way that’s what I’ve been trying to find. I’ve sometimes evolved limerence for friends, I assume because of that very thing. I wanted to spend time with them, I liked them, it’s relaxed, I wasn’t initially limerent for them (etc.). I felt seen, there was some level of reciprocation.
Again, it starts to seem more like luck the more I learn about what it takes to be in a healthy relationship. I’m fine with that if it’s so, I may just be unlucky thus far.
Maybe I do need to focus on my own life more and not worry about trying to bring someone into that. Rather: create a life that can allows for someone to step in.
Lonliness is one thing, but if that’s mearly a depressive symptom to overcome, then I can work on it. Rather than pretend that it’s something that needs ‘fixing’ with the addition of another person. Sometimes I find that the feeling of missing out on love is far worse than simply not having it.
How do you feel? If you’re 107 I’m sure you have vastly more perspective on this than I do!
“So I can be quite distanced in the beginning (as to avoid becoming too invested) and any initial interest (from them) I am slightly sceptical of, especially when I’ve only just met someone: it’s partly fear (I don’t know what to do with it) and I don’t want to fuel another limerent cycle.”
I’m going to define limerence … just so I’m clear. To me, limerence is a bad thing. It happens when things aren’t gelling -when the other person isn’t avaialable, when the other person is but wants so much less than we do (you want a relationship, they’re just killing time and are casual), is playing hot and cold, is hard to read. So we start fixating on them and trying to decipher their hard-to-read behavior and we long for them and pine for them and ruminate.
So, to me, that’s not good. You don’t want that. No, it’s not about luck. It can be about timing — the person has to be ready for a relationship when you meet them — but it’s about picking people who are reciprocating and NOT triggering limerence. Someone who is into you will let you know where they stand. I don’t mean they are writing their feelings on a sign after date 1, but you call, and they call back. You ask them out and they say yes. Things are moving forward. Things are getting more serious over time. They aren’t playing games. They aren’t disappearing and reappearing. And it goes without saying — if they are unavailable, dont’ even go there.
So, to answer your question, you will need to show interest. It doesn’t have to be anything huge. You don’t need big romantic gestures (in fact, those can be off-putting in the beginning). But call or start a text exchange or ask the person to meet for a drink. Let them know you’re still in the game. Because the healthy repsonse to someone giving you either mixed or hard-to-read signals is to walk.
None of this means you won’t fall in love with the right person. and feel deeply for them. It just won’t feel like climbing Mt. Olympus to get things off the ground.
This is a pretty good list. From “How to Tell Someone Could Be a Great Parnter.” Crappy Childhood Fairy, youtube
1. You feel romanticly attracted and they show you they are attracted to you.
2. They are not already in a relationship.
4. They demonstrate an interest in getting to know you; they don’t just talk about themselves or outside things like the weather.
5. They make it clear this is a date.
6. They are open about themselves and what they are looking for. (This is different than oversharing right away with all their personal stories; that’s a bad sign.)
7. They are logistically available and have time for a relationship.
8. They treat you and everyone else you interact with with kindness.
9. They are honest.
10. They are considerate about making plans with you. They don’t leave you guessing. They call when they say they are going to call, they follow through on invitations, etc.
11. You feel good when you are dating them. It’s not enough to be crazy about them or feel hope that it may go into something. But as a result of meeting them and dating them, you feel lifted up and positive.
Thanks for this Marcia.
It’s quite a daunting list at first glance! I think for me, my issue might be my attachment style (fearful/disorganised). I’m prone to either limerent (highly emotional) or avoidant (highly practical) behaviour around relationships and intimacy. It’s hard for me to find a balance between my romantic and competent sides in relationships.
It’s difficult for me to trust people and not worry about not being enough. At the same time, it’s easy for me to want to neglect relationships and justify my disengagement from them.
For me, I feel limerence is a symptom of my issue. A rather harsh symptom that really doesn’t pull its punches.
I suppose, maybe my solution is a simple one: to not worry about relationships so much.
Not to give up on them, but instead to tend to them actively, seed control and allow them to be what they will, rather than try to compensate for the outcome I’d like. Allow the love to come to me, rather than trying to form it in the way I desire it to be; it’s a two way street after all!
“To me, limerence is a bad thing. It happens when things aren’t gelling -when the other person isn’t avaialable, when the other person is but wants so much less than we do (you want a relationship, they’re just killing time and are casual), is playing hot and cold, is hard to read. So we start fixating on them and trying to decipher their hard-to-read behavior and we long for them and pine for them and ruminate.
So, to me, that’s not good. You don’t want that. No, it’s not about luck. It can be about timing — the person has to be ready for a relationship when you meet them — but it’s about picking people who are reciprocating and NOT triggering limerence. Someone who is into you will let you know where they stand. I don’t mean they are writing their feelings on a sign after date 1, but you call, and they call back. You ask them out and they say yes. Things are moving forward. Things are getting more serious over time. They aren’t playing games. They aren’t disappearing and reappearing. And it goes without saying — if they are unavailable, dont’ even go there.”
@Marcia.
These two paragraphs of yours struck me as worthy of quotation. Not a bad summary of insights and ideas. 😛
“I’d filter for someone you find appealing, who you like, whose company you enjoy, who is interested in you .. but who doesn’t necessarily knock you over immediatley. There’s definite interest. You’re looking forward to the date. It shouldn’t feel like a chore. You’re just not limerent but your feelings could grow.”
@Louis and Marcia.
I’m thinking a dating relationship shouldn’t feel like a matter of life and death. I.e. one shouldn’t be super-anxious about the outcome of a mere date. And if a date or a relationship does feel super-serious almost from the outset, maybe that’s a sign one is bringing more to the table than just a desire to be in a relationship? I.e. maybe one is hoping a relationship will fix or make up for other things in one’s life that aren’t going so well?
I’m thinking: don’t make the promise of romance one’s only source of current or future happiness. Romance can’t make up for other stuff that may have gone awry in our lives. 🤔
Yes! That is so very true Sammy, and very pertinent in this case.
Sometimes, the best romances start off simply as two people having some fun together. The more intense falling-in-love part can happen naturally over time.
Hello Louis,
So I was reading this post and I couldn’t help but comment. So at first I thought, “See, a fearful avoidant”. You did literally mention the core wound “I’m unworthy”, it was very obvious to me. Then I was reading more comments and at some point you said that your issue might be your attachment style, and that you are FA/disorganized attachment. And I was like “YES”, that is literally the core of it. I was honestly glad that you have this awareness about it 😂. I still think you lean more anxious, but even if they lean more dismissive as a general rule the fearful avoidant will think that love is this kind of enmeshed state and those peak moments of closeness, very similar to the anxious preoccupied though with some more intensity around it we could say. I’m an AP myself – though I have some fearful edges for sure and used to be FA during my teens definitely – and I’ve been in limerence with an FA friend of mine for quite some time. In order to understand him and not to get too crazy I’ve learned a lot about FAs, there’s so much I can say still. I am not over my own limerence but I don’t fight against it anymore, for I recognize what it is: a feedback mechanism that is giving us a lot of feedback about the relationship to ourselves. It’s like this chest trunk of golden nuggets. I’m not sure if you have heard about Thais Gibson and her Personal Development School. Her YouTube channel is gold, there’s so much free content for free that is literally so much better than anything you will ever find. And then the school is next, next level. In fact, just this past Saturday we had a webinar about how to let go of limerence. So if you have already this awareness around your attachment style I can’t recommend the PDS YouTube channel enough, if you are not familiar with it already. Thais used to be FA herself back in the day, and there is just so much incredible stuff in there that I almost feel sad for those who live unaware of those things 😂. Hope you find it helpful, and best of luck in your journey! Would love to know how things unfold for you. Best regards.
You can make a whole playlist on this blog.
I’m going with this one since it’s forever tied to LO #2.
Song of the Blog: “Here I Go Again” – Whitesnake (1897)
https://youtu.be/WyF8RHM1OCg
Whitesnake is over a hundred years old? 🙂 Ugh hair bands. Though I do like a bit of Def Leppord.
Ill leave an actual purposeful comment later. Too much vodka already.
“Whitesnake is over a hundred years old? 🙂 Ugh hair bands. Though I do like a bit of Def Leppard.”
It will happen to you, too, eventually. People will roll their eyes to tease you about the music you talk about. The movies in the “classic” section of Hulu will be ones you remember from your childhood and teenage years (they used to be from your parents’ time).
I was talking to a younger co-worker the other day and told him I liked Madonna. He said he liked Brittney Spears … sigh, he grew up in the 90s, not the 80s. The two women are hardly the same thing. Heaven help if I’d have referenced disco from the 70s. It would have been like talking to a blank wall. 🙂
I love disco music and I was barely alive when it was prominent.
One of my favorites not to mention YMCA lol
https://youtu.be/pG8TyIEAqps
Just saw this… love 70s disco!
Good choice! 😀
I’ve actually been listening to Reasons – Earth, Wind & Fire (’75) a lot recently, another appropriate track.
I’m Always Chasing Rainbows – Alice Cooper
That’s another one 😂
Quite addictive, finding limerent music.
There’s a whole blog for it.
https://livingwithlimerence.com/limerence-music/
Posters can’t immediately videos anymore so a lot of links there lack descriptions.
Embed videos.
Gotta love autocorrect.
Thank you for a post on the perils of being single and limerent.
Louis’ story resonates with me. I am at a point in my life when I cannot have the distraction of love (or rather, painful break ups). I am trying to finish graduate school and have already been derailed twice by break ups. I just need to focus on my work and career but like Louis I also keep getting attracted to people, it is like my heart is lonely and calling out for connection even as my brain says, stop, focus.
At graduate school I meet many, many beautiful and highly intelligent women every day. The ones that glimmer for me most however, are the slightly older than me, married ones. This is hugely unfortunate. I do find unmarried women attractive, and have even casually dated them, but it is fun for a while then I usually call it off – despite me having a bit of a reputation as a Casanova, I don’t intend to lead women on if I don’t intend to continue. I often feel bad – should I not have gone out with them at all when I know I am busy with graduate school? But, when I feel the spark of attraction, my instinct is to pursue, and then my brain kicks in and I withdraw.
The married women though … they are a blend of maternal (such great cooks, many of them, I am the recipient of many cookies) and sexy and unavailable that just gets them stuck in my head. They flirt (lightly) but pretty much are a no-go, and all involved understand this. I am no home-wrecker, and these women are probably just a little bored and taken for granted at home, but would not seriously consider risking their marriages. But then the become my LO and it is very distracting.
So, I am on my fourth “girl” at this point (only two of them LOs, both married), and I’m just wondering … is there a solution to this? I’m just not in a right place to start a relationship, but I am falling into limerence one after another without volition, and it is exhausting. Furthermore, why are the married women more attractive? I never had this problem before.
Huckleberry,
“I often feel bad – should I not have gone out with them at all when I know I am busy with graduate school? But, when I feel the spark of attraction, my instinct is to pursue, and then my brain kicks in and I withdraw.”
It’s fine as long as you make it clear you want something casual or aren’t sure what you want. Ideally, you are telling the women this and aren’t acting like a boyfriend if you don’t want a girlfriend. If you aren’t calling/texting all the time and hanging out all the time so she thinks you want more than you do. Space out the calls/texts; space out the dates. If you want casual, act casually.
About all I can offer to this perspective is …. I was never limerent for my wife of 23 years. Yet she is the one to still be by my side as I worked through a two year limerence with a female co-worker. She still gets in the same bed with me. Kissed me goodbye this morning. She holds me to comfort my still intrusive thoughts. I let another woman in my heart because of limerence and yet she is still by my side, has forgiven me, and is giving me a chance to reconcile our marriage. More than I ever deserved. As far as I am concerned limerence is damnation.
‘Damnation’: you’re not wrong about that Adam!
I’m pleased you’ve found someone who can be more for you, wishing you all the best for your future.
I was also never limerent for my wife. At the time I met her I was actually limerent for my ex girlfriend but in a state of NC with her. My wife came along at a time when I was looking for something new and we hit it off immediately and started dating almost immediately. There was never a period of uncertainty with my wife. But, my limerence for my ex girlfriend did linger for the next few years but at a very low level.
For me, dating my wife was a very purposeful, intent decision to get out of the lament of my ex girlfriend. I had dated other girls in this time, but they only lasted a few weeks due to my loss of interest in them. My wife was the first that I did not lose interest in and I was ready to have a marriage. She has been a great life partner for me.
My advice…make the purposeful decision to date people who you feel a spark, but not necessarily limerence. To feel mutual limerence and turn that into a longer lasting love is great, but not a requirement of a long term partner. Don’t hesitate, act now with someone.
Hi Speedwagon,
How would tell the difference between that genuine spark and limerent excitement?
Attraction comes at many levels. When I met my wife I was not immediately overly physically attracted to her but was drawn to her personality. It was enough that I asked for her number. We started talking on the phone…(yes, I’m gen X) and had great connection and then went out on a proper date a couple weeks later. The date went well, and it progressed from there. I was never gaga over her, I never had uncertainty about her, I never had the crippling nervousness or anxiousness I have had with LOs. My SO was just a fantastic person, we got along well, I became more physically attracted to her and it eventually led to marriage after 18 months. Just a very natural progression, but it started with just a little spark, not some wave of uncontrollable desire. I guess that is how you know.
Hmm, I’m new so why are you on this site then?
Great advice from Marcia, I very much agree with all of that.
I can relate to this. I did not have a proper boyfriend/girlfriend relationship until I was 26. I dated a little but it was always disappointing and I just did not truly connect with anyone. I am a shy introvert which does not help. I either felt they only liked me for my appearance but did not bother to really see the person inside, or I felt they liked me more than I liked them which made me pity them and feel guilty – not a good dynamic for desire to flourish. Just like Louis I was holding out for the romantic dream. I made do with a combination of crushes/LEs and a long term friend-with-benefits for years – this just felt safer and easier. My family and friends provided me with the human connection I needed. It took giving a nice guy that fancied me a go to finally fall-in-love and truly connect.
I have had one experience of mutual limerence – it was the best sex of my life but the desire burnt out very quickly as we were both having a relationship with an LO not each other, and eventually this became jarring.
Louis – have you ever considered getting some therapy to deal with your attachment issues? As Marcia has said, showing an interest in a person you like is a key step towards love, and maybe the crux of your issue?
Hi Allie 1,
I have considered therapy and I would love to, I’m not quite in the position to do that right now: I had a round of counselling a year ago (I had a desperate need for a new adventure but was very anxious about it).
It’s not mentioned in the post but I’ve recently moved abroad for a period of time and it’s given me the confidence to explore a bit more romantically. Which has been good, but being a foreigner also gives me a way out too…
For me, I feel it’s not only difficult to trust others and their affections, but it’s hard to trust my own too.
I desire a lot more control over my romantic experience than I can have (both internally and externally). On the flip side, I can also feel a lot of guilt and shame for my complete lack of romantic or sexual experience. Part of me feels I ‘should’ be trying to pursue that.
I’m constantly assessing my feelings and the world around me in order to try to make sense of things. It’s exhausting: it’s no wonder I’ve struggled to have any experiences: I can be very afraid of getting it wrong, ending up being hurt and reinforcing the feeling of being even more alone.
I have a deep level of mistrust in the world… if I’m honest. I need to learn to dissolve that. I’m learning to get over it, but this might be a slow process for me.
I can relate to your mistrust of the world and need for control, I think we all can to a degree. Maybe what you need is to learn to have more faith in your own ability to end up being OK, no matter what? If you get hurt, that is Ok, painful and difficult for a time but all emotions are temporary and will pass. It is all part of the human experience. When things are tough, sometimes remind myself that I am physically safe and that deep down, there is always a part of my mind, the pure awareness part, that is Ok and always will be. This little practice makes me feel more at peace.
Have you ever done any proper mindfulness training? That really helped me learn to stop overthinking so much and reduce my need for control.
I’m actually fairly experienced with meditation, although I think it could be feeding into my issue.
I’m either in an anxious limerent state or I’m in a detached one. I can sway from one to the other depending on outside feedback. I get excited about love, then (once it’s in reach) fearful of it.
In an odd way, part of me prefers limerence to real love.
It weirdly feels normal for me to assume I’ll be alright on my own; I’ve done it for a long time. It’s been very easy for me to do that because (ironically): it feels safe.
Part of me feels that the only person I can rely on (for protection) is me. I don’t trust myself in love, but I trust myself alone.
I go through cycles of investment, then (almost blissful) freedom and self appreciation.
It’s a funny one and I’ve been thinking a lot about my own patterns in light of these comments. I may be more scared of love than I want to admit.
Louis, if you’ll forgive me for interrupting, I have a few brief points you might like to consider:
(1) It’s actually not possible to have total control over any sexual encounter or any romantic encounter, because two people are involved and not one.
(2) Maybe your limerence is partially driven by a desire for emotional security? I.e. you’re hoping that another person will provide you with a feeling of emotional security that has thus far been missing from your life? (Maybe you had parents who didn’t take your emotions seriously or peers who didn’t understand your passions?)
(3) As you grow older and gain more life experience, you may find that limerence as a concept loses its charm, simply because you’ll learn how to be more assertive in your relationships – both romantic and platonic – and just ask the other person for what you want.
If, on the other hand, limerence doesn’t lose its charm over time for you, just as a general concept, that might be because you are afraid a partner won’t truly listen to you or be sensitive to your needs. In other words, you want a partner who slows down, asks questions, sees the real you.
Just some random thoughts. Feel free to take them with a grain of salt if you feel they don’t fit your situation and/or psychology. 😉
Thanks Sammy,
I think you’re right about the piece on emotional security. I feel my tendency in relationships (or just love in general as I don’t have any relationships to speak of). Is to be quite distant, whilst also trying to open myself to as much connection as I can.
So emotional security is so hard to define. I don’t know what it means for me to feel secure in a relationship.
Part of me pushes away love, for fear of loss and being controlled. Yet another so desperately craves it. I’ve mentioned it in another comment: limerence seems to act as this sweet spot where I can experience love, but I don’t have to feel overwhelmed by it.
I often find myself feeling fear about being left or cheated on, if I was in a relationship (“Oh, they’ll just end up leaving me for someone else”). Part of me wants to bring that person closer and hold tightly onto love. Then another part will swing that feeling towards ‘I’m better off leaving them now’ (“What’s the point if it’ll hurt me and be painful anyway”).
So it’s this battle between two paradoxical modes of relating to love. Craving closeness in one moment, then wanting to keep it at arm’s length in the next.
I don’t really know what to do about that. It’s as if they appear as the antidote to each other. To fix my clinging and romantic limerence, I’ll distance myself from love. But then, in distancing myself, I feel like I need to get closer again and I open myself up again: the cycle repeats.
“I have had one experience of mutual limerence – it was the best sex of my life but the desire burnt out very quickly as we were both having a relationship with an LO not each other, and eventually this became jarring.”
@Allie 1.
That is such an amazing little gem of an insight right there: “we were both having a relationship with an LO not each other”.
Wow, just, wow. Getting chills.
Hi, Louis,
There’s a lot of good insight above. It seems that your situation can be condensed into an attraction for unsuitable candidates and missing clues/lacking interest in potentially suitable candidates. That can be the tip of one very big iceberg but it doesn’t have to be. There are a lot of potential reasons for being where you are.
Like Allie1, I didn’t have an adult relationship until I was 27. https://livingwithlimerence.com/do-they-like-me-too/#comment-3686
IMO, that’s another blog DrL should have list in the recommended reading list.
Do you have enough data points to determine if there’s a pattern or is it more a lack of numbers? Therapy may or may not help you. The more precisely you can define the issues, the more effective therapy is likely to be.
There was a time when I didn’t think there was a woman out there that wouldn’t eventually take off on me. I found one.
I don’t know how I missed this one:
Song of the Day: “Someone To Love” – Queen (1976)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrvO4baXLWI
Hi L.E.,
That’s a beautiful comment you linked my friend. God knows I know that feeling: quite metaphorical it was on a ship too…
If I’m honest, I don’t think I know how to love. At least, when it doesn’t come with some kind of romantic excitement or fantasy. Which is a terrifying thought.
I feel like I’ve always been someone who’s loved at a distance. I’ve admired people from afar, but I’ve rarely shared that love with them. It’s only been in fantasy, where it’s safe.
I’ve always known that those fantasies aren’t real, so when I get close it’s easy to justify and pull away or (like you say) if someone shows interest in me, I don’t think (or want) to engage in the first place.
I’m suspicious of their intentions and my own feelings, so I can’t seem to find any place to build anything genuine from.
I’ve always waited for another person to take the lead, which obviously hasn’t happened yet.
I have a lot more emotional expectations of my love life than I’ve imagined I do or wanted to. I feel the idea of investing so heavily in someone, trusting them and then them breaking that trust is really emotionally crippling.
That comes from childhood experiences, I’ve done enough pondering about it all to know that. Maybe I need to sit with those feelings/events a bit more…
That’s a great Queen track, if I may, I’d offer Jacob Collier’s cover in response.
I feel it taps a bit closer to how it all ends up feeling for me:
https://youtu.be/cCl7_tXs80Y
Hi, Louis!
I like the Jacob Collier cover! I’d never heard of him.
I’ve read your posts and some things are coming through. These are my opinion and speculation. Please bear that in mind.
I see three themes:
– “I wouldn’t want to be a member of a club that would have me as a member” – attributed to Groucho Marx
– “Don’t attach because the potential loss is too painful to consider. Abandon them before they abandon you.”
– “Every core injured adult child has to live with the tormenting, inescapable question: “Am I good enough to be loved by you?” – Shari Schreiber https://sharischreiber.com/do-you-love-to-be-needed/
I really like Schreiber’s work. That’s her keystone article. Her blogs are pretty good, too. https://sharischreiber.com/do-you-want-to-have-an-enduring-love-affair/
Schreiber’s context is co-dependents and Cluster B personality disordered individuals. That’s not your situation. But, I think you could relate to much of what Schreiber says. [speculation]. Some sections might really speak to you, others you could blow right past.
There’s a difference between codependency and limerence. https://www.andreaharrn.co.uk/co-dependent-limerent/ They overlap and, IMO, can have similar origins [more speculation]. That difference is one of the things that makes therapy for limerence dicey. Most therapists aren’t familiar with limerence but know about codependence so that’s what they label you and try to treat.
I certainly relate to what you’re saying. If you cruise the early blogs you’ll find comments that echo what you’re experiencing.
Again, it’s all opinion and speculation. But, you’re definitely not alone here.
Louis I can tell you about anxious attachment (if that is the issue). And probably besides my wife why everyone leaves my life.
I got attached to LO pretty fast. I enjoyed her company and our dialogue. But before long I feared she’d leave. Which made me just more clingy and awkward. When I get to liking someone (romantic or platonic) from the get go I know they are going to leave me. Because I take too much and don’t give enough back.
“Everything you give I want
But I always take too much
Everything you need I’m not
Cause I’ll always be loveless”
Numb — Declan J Donovan
Which just ends up pushing people away. My wife comments often I get in moods where if she’s not in the room with me I panic. I’ll wake up in the night and she’s not in the bed and I’ll run through the house searching for her sure she’s left me.
There was a time due to a low in her bipolar that we hadn’t been intimate in a long time and I was sure that it wasn’t just me but men in general. That my wife had a bisexual epiphany and was only attracted to women now. My brain conjured that up because I can’t see people staying with me.
23 years and a 2 year LE you’d think I’d know she’s going to stay. Don’t know why see does. And maybe that’s why I can’t be secure in my attachment to her.
I’m glad to hear that Adam, I relate to that.
Half of my attachment seems to tend towards that, it’s the anxious limerent part of me that wants to hold onto hope. Yet that same holding onto hope creates an expectation that turns a partner/LO into the embodiment of hope. Expectations and fear of loss build up, each day of investment adding to the pile of everything I have to lose. That being, the hope itself; the hope that it could work out for me.
I also have this side of being absolutely terrified of relationships as well. Part of me wants to be better off without them. The distance feels safe, letting go early feels better than risking the loss of investment.
It’s funny, I’m more comfortable public speaking or performing in a band than I am actually forming a relationship. It’s these two polar opposite ends of my emotional world that are constantly fighting to be satisfied.
On the one hand, I crave intimacy, closeness and that deep connection with other people. On the other hand, I don’t trust it, I want to run from it and that feeling of vulnerability feels scary.
I’ll be extremely open and committed to someone in one moment and then want to distance myself and set myself free in the next. It’s exhausting.
This feels like the pattern I’m alluding to in the post. I feel it’s why love and limerence are so exhausting for me: limerence seems to hit this sweet spot between being able to feel close, yet also having enough distance away from that closeness. So as not to get hurt by it.
That said, even unfulfilled limerence can still emotionally cripple me. At one moment it’s lost love, in another it’s guilt and shame for even believing in that faux love. Again, it’s that clinging onto hope, fighting against that need to not be dependent on it.
Why do you feel it can be hard to still not feel secure with your wife?
I’ve often heard that experience of secure relationships can help soothe the attachment reflexes that are ingrained in our psyche.
“I’ll be extremely open and committed to someone in one moment and then want to distance myself and set myself free in the next. It’s exhausting.”
I can relate. I commit really fast in a relationship be it friendship or romantic and when it doesn’t pan out I get hurt easy. And with limerence and LO it was almost a nose dive. Just her simple kindnesses were exasperated by it. I totally threw my entire self to her. And I don’t know why in the case of limerence why it was her. I had another female co-worker who was just as nice and wonderful of a woman as LO. And we talked and traded jokes and laughed and she was wonderful to work with too. But she quit the job last month. Another one bites the dust. I’ve worked with a lot of wonderful ladies in my time. Befriended many ladies in my wife’s family that I have had total healthy relationship with. My wife’s cousin and her husband were two of the people I first met when we got together and she (her cousin) is such a sweet wonderful lady and her husband and I had a great friendship. We watched our (ours and my wife’s cousin’s) children grow up. Then they moved to New Mexico. Another one bites the dust.
My wife and I met on the internet back in 1998 when that was very uncommon. My wife would remember better, but I believe it was March when we just met up for the first time online, as just friends, and it was October when we got married. That’s not a long time, and not all of that time was before we realized we had romantic feelings for each other.
I am not sure how/can relate to multiple LEs. I wasn’t even limerent for my wife. But she is the longest relationship I have had (outside of family) and she is the one that stood by me through my limerence. Limerence literally is person addiction. And while I was addicted to LO my wife is the one who loves me and wants to stand by me. But I do understand getting attached to people. And then they leave.
I remember LO’s last day at the job I spent on and off time in my head for 9 hours trying to think of how to say goodbye. As the end of the day approached, that dreaded 5pm, she said “Goodbye Adam” and got in her truck and left before I really had time to think. I don’t know what I thought was going to happen or be said but reality was harsh. And the drive home was debilitating.
“Why do you feel it can be hard to still not feel secure with your wife?”
At the very base; she can do better. She thinks I “put up” with her anxiety and bipolar. Two things that are just as much a part of her as her ability to be an amazing mother. Our boys are the amazing young men they are because of her. She didn’t ask for anxiety or bipolar. But she deals with it day after day, and succeeds in getting to the next day and doing it all over again. My flaws are choices. Or the lack of making the right choice. She could find some richer, more attractive, intelligent or successful man if she chose to. Why she doesn’t I don’t know. So I always fear that some man could come along and take her away from me.
I think it was also why nothing happened with LO past being friends/co-workers. Because in my heart I knew I wasn’t good enough for her. Even if I weren’t married and was available in the same scenario. And why I can maintain NC. She deserves better.
I might be reading the article wrong, and forgive me if that’s the case, but it sounds to me that maybe Louis experiences a limerence-type reaction to every prospective romantic partner he finds? Is that correct, or am I way off base?
I don’t think anyone should have to endure the feeling that “love is killing me”. I don’t think love is meant to be that painful. And if love is that painful for someone, then maybe it’s not love? Maybe what we’re really talking about is DESIRE (or limerence) which can blossom into love, but isn’t love from the get-go? Desire makes people feel lonely and desperate and melancholy, but love doesn’t. Love isn’t an emotional roller-coaster ride with an uncertain outcome.
I hate to drag the writer Camille Paglia into everything. However, her views might shed some light on the ever-vexing subject of human desire. Paglia conceptualises sex as a power struggle between men and women, and she believes “lust” is what men and women use to enslave the other…
Now wanting to enslave another person to me doesn’t sound very kind or moral or civilised. But it does seem to be what is happening, whether we like it or not, during limerence. I.e. A man wants a woman to desire him as much as he desires her. Or, alternatively, a woman wants a man to desire her as much as she desires him. I think limerents actually want to inspire lust in their LO/prospective partner and that is why so much energy is poured into maximising one’s physical attractiveness and presenting the most favourable version of one’s personality.
Let’s put it another way. I think limerence is desiring someone and wanting that person, the LO, to match the level of desire. The “jackpot” in limerence is the discovery that LO has an equally strong desire to form a relationship. Does that sound about right? It sounds crass, but all limerents are trying to seduce their LOs into a relationship, even if this “seduction” doesn’t involve any actual physical contact. Limerents act all intense, because the stakes of winning or losing the mating game (i.e. successful pair-bonding) are so high in evolutionary terms.
On a less abstract note, if Louis wants a relationship, I don’t think he’s going to have much luck unless he meets a woman who is also ready for a relationship. I.e. both parties have to be on the same page, a page where they’re both eager to jump into a relationship, if a relationship is going to happen. Both parties have to have the same level of “relationship readiness” when they meet, more or less, otherwise nothing is going to happen. Or nothing truly satisfying is going to happen. One party is always going to feel disappointed by the interaction.
If Louis wishes to stop having limerence-type feelings for a given woman he meets, he needs to make sure that the woman in question feels like a natural, organic part of his life and not somebody he believes is unattainable or “way too good for him”. If Louis feels a particular woman is too good for him, then he’s not going to act like himself around her, and any dates or conversations will be awkward. Awkwardness is only cute when both parties are similarly invested in forming a relationship with each other and therefore similarly awkward. 😉
Hi Sammy, Thanks for this comment.
You’re right, it’s very easy for me to have a limerence-type reaction to any prospective partner.
I agree with your assessment, although I’ll add that my limerence doesn’t seem to be sexual desire, it’s romantic desire. I had this funny thing growing up (still to some degree now) where it feels wrong to imagine myself sexually with someone I’m also limerent for or seriously romantically interested in.
It’s almost as if I wanted to place salience on the romantic part of my desire so as to not water my desire for connection down with sexual lust.
Overall: It’s this need to want to feel close to someone, whilst at the same time not risking a break in that closeness (being outside the blast radius of loss).
I’ve mentioned this in another reply to you, so as not to waste words, I won’t repeat myself. Suffice it to say that for me, limerence seems to act as a halfway point between polarising emotional needs.
I’m honestly not sure if I’ll be able to meet someone that manages to feel like a natural part of my life when the idea of love itself is so unstable for me. If they’re distant (or limerent): I’ll desire and daydream. If they show me love or reciprocate: I’m sceptical, cautious and back off.
I haven’t really felt like someone is ‘too good for me’. Most of the time my esteem is pretty good and for most people, I grow affectionate for I can imagine myself being with genuinely. When I interact, I can engage that ‘distance tendency’, which helps me not feel so much pressure to be ‘good enough’ for someone else. Part of me is always ready to accept (or expects) that I’ll need to be ready to be independent.
In all honesty, I’m frightened of myself in a relationship. I know it’s what I need to move forward and help heal, yet at the same time, I don’t want to end up hurting myself, or the other person and reinforcing old emotions.
I can’t really find any strategy to manage it, because anything I do seems to reinforce some side of my tendencies. It’s a cocktail of dogged independence and unquenchable desire, that never seems to balance itself.
I’m either utterly enrolled in my individual pursuits or I’m completely willing to compromise for another person. That can happen at the drop of a hat.
I had a relationship experience in my late teens that demonstrated this to me to a disturbing degree:
I had a 5-year limerence for this girl in High School. I spent those five years believing it could work out, I didn’t give up, yet I never asked her out for fear of rejection. The emotional investment got stronger, and I grew more stoic. We eventually became friends, then good friends, we hung out all the time and flirted regularly, until one day she became my girlfriend.
Adulation. It worked. My belief paid off. I was right.
A couple of months into our relationship, I’m around her house one evening: we’re in her room watching (not really) something and being intimate with each other. I go to the bathroom to freshen up and all of a sudden I’m overcome with a feeling of desperation. I still remember the exact words in my head: “This is wrong, I need to leave”. It was a conviction like I’ve never experienced.
I made my excuse and went home, I remember entering the house with this overwhelming feeling of disgust and shame; my family, my home and my room had never felt so welcoming.
I broke up with her the next week.
I could see it in her eyes and I knew it: I’d utterly broken her heart. I hated it, I felt so overwhelmingly guilty and shameful, but I had to do it. I couldn’t bare the feeling of terror and helplessness within me. I even did it right before her after-school (mock) exam.
I hit a real low after that, with mixed feelings of ‘I don’t know what I want’ and guilt and shame at having built this relationship, just to smash it in an instant. I was the enemy, I had been the bad guy.
The girl in question was fine after a while, although she started dating girls. Which I got a fair amount of teasing for as a guy. Not that it’s at all wrong (obviously), but I admit it did feel quite emasculating.
I haven’t seemed to be able to find my feet since then…
Since then, I haven’t had another relationship. I’ve tried, but girls either haven’t been interested or even if they were a little and it we just ended up ‘just being friends’.
Now here we are, I feel like it’d be easier to just give up. But I can’t, I don’t know how. I also want to hope, but again: I don’t even know what it might mean for me to hope.
I try to remind myself after each fading romantic prospect: one day at a time. I’ll get there eventually. Patience.
I look to the horizon and remind myself that there’s always hope.
I’m proud of how I can show myself compassion in those moments, but in truth: I just don’t know.
I don’t know if I’ll be able to have anything more than a limerent relationship.
I don’t know if I won’t end up hurting myself or others…
…and I don’t know if I’ll be able to bare all the guilt and the shame again.
Louis,
Have you ever spoken to a therapist about what you wrote? Preferably one who deals in trauma because it’s there.
If you do see a professional, print this out and take it with you. If the therapist blows this off and doesn’t take it seriously, find a different therapist.
No, I haven’t really L.E.
I may have briefly mentioned it. But it only became a passing ‘your mistake was waiting and not finding out sooner’ piece of advice.
Admittedly I spent most of my therapy I have had on other things (purpose, adventure etc.)
What was it in what I said that resonated with you as being traumatic?
Hi, Louis,’
“What was it in what I said that resonated with you as being traumatic?”
Specifically, “I go to the bathroom to freshen up and all of a sudden I’m overcome with a feeling of desperation. I still remember the exact words in my head: “This is wrong, I need to leave”. It was a conviction like I’ve never experienced.
I made my excuse and went home, I remember entering the house with this overwhelming feeling of disgust and shame; my family, my home and my room had never felt so welcoming.
I haven’t seemed to be able to find my feet since then…”
Sounds pretty traumatic to me.
You also talk a lot about fear, guilt, and shame. All of those can have their origins in trauma.
I recommend you print everything you wrote her and find a therapist who’ll delve into that with you.
Limetents respond to LOs reactions. That doesnt mean LO is mutually limerent. If all I want to do is eat my $10 worth of Taco Bell and go to sleep and my wife is in the mood doesnt mean because I respond Im in the mood. Im just reciprocating. Its a neutral response. The biggest mistake limerents make is seeing something thats not there. Did I give my wife what she was after when I got done consuming food that is technically not food? Yes. For me was it about her? Yes thats why I reciprocated. Even if the end game did nothing for me. Limerents dont understand no when it comes to their LOs. So a lot of the responses from the LO are misconstrued and the fantasy world starts getting built. I honestly doubt mutual limerence exist. Not to downplay anyone’s experience but the concept seems nonsensical to me. I
Think the limerent, unconsciously or not is the instigator and the LO is the innocent/unwilling participant. I think the mutual foundation of knowledge and friendship of two people is the ideal foundation of a solid relationship. And limerence is nothing more than a drunk one night stand. And believe me I know a thing or two about drunk behavior.
Congratulations Adam. You are back in the saddle. Woowoo!
I had a moment of clarity last night. We had some bad storms last night that were conducive for a tornado(s). My wife watches the weather so I didn’t worry too much until she told me otherwise. So I was in the bedroom playing Zelda. In a moment of intoxication I thought, “oh hell I don’t know how wide spread this is. Should I text/call LO and make sure she is safe?” But I had to ask myself “is that really why you want to text/call her?”
Not to worry. I didn’t. I text my other former female co-worker and checked in with her and her family asking about the weather there and asked her to pass on my concern to LO if things got bad down there. LO only lives about 20 miles from her. She said she would pass on the message to LO.
This was the honest to God thought I had after she replied back they were all okay … “are you really concerned about LO? Or was this just an excuse?” That was a pretty difficult question for me to answer honestly. Had I still been so far over the edge that a year later I am still looking for excuses?
Damn I know addictions are difficult. I know. Some in my life I have managed to overcome and some still haunt me. I have to look at LO as an addiction. Not through any fault of hers. She is not a bad person or asked for any of this. Just because alcohol, tobacco, fast food, gambling, etc exists and people can abuse them, doesn’t make those individual things bad or evil. Same with LO. And most of the time with addictions, for me, it’s all or nothing and with this addiction it has to be nothing.
I took a dangerous act of God to use as an excuse to get one last high. That’s a very sobering thought for someone who was very not sober last night.
Some really thoughtful comments, Adam.
“Limerents respond to LOs reactions. That doesn’t mean LO is mutually limerent.”
I agree with this, broadly speaking. But I would say LO acts and limerent reacts and then keeps reacting. It’s almost like the limerent can’t stop the chain of reactions once that train has left the station. But I think the LO does have to show a little interest, at least initially, for the whole process to get underway. 😉
I don’t think it’s possible to become limerent for someone who always acts cold and distant. Unless, of course, someone is limerent for a perfect stranger and “reading into” words and actions that have nothing to do with the limerent. But I think that’s called “erotomania”, and not limerence per se. In limerence, there MUST be the possibility of reciprocation, otherwise the fantasy isn’t satisfying, and hormones don’t become involved. That’s my understanding anyhow…
“The biggest mistake limerents make is seeing something that’s not there.”
Yes, I agree with this totally. However, most limerents don’t realise there was nothing there until after the fact, when the LO has permanently withdrawn from the limerent’s life, or there’s been an awful confrontation of some sort. I.e. some LOs really do give off mixed signals and the limerent gets trapped into trying to figure out those mixed signals.
“Limerents don’t understand no when it comes to their LOs.”
This comment strikes me as a tiny bit harsh, although I know what you’re trying to say. I think limerents do understand “no” when it comes to LOs – at least intellectually. I think most limerents are good, decent, moral, respectful, considerate souls. Certainly, from what I’ve observed, most of the people Dr. L helps seem to be fundamentally good people who are respectful of the boundaries of others. The problem is getting one’s intellect and one’s emotions on the same page. Emotions are unruly whereas intellectualising the right course of action is easy. To paraphrase the Bible, the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.
Basically, I think human beings have a reptile brain, which is largely unconscious, and a mammal brain, which is largely conscious. Sometimes, the reptile brain wants things that the mammal brain doesn’t. It’s tricky to get the two brains into alignment. However, a limerent is unlikely to experience much peace until they get their two brains into alignment.
For example, my mammal brain may not wish to have a relationship with a given individual. Maybe that individual and I have nothing in common, and want to live in different locations. However, whenever I’m around that person, my reptile brain keeps forming “romantic pathways” because my reptile brain finds that person uncannily attractive even if my mammal brain is 100% uninterested.
“I honestly doubt mutual limerence exists.”
I respectfully disagree with you. I do believe mutual limerence exists. However, as Marcia has previously pointed out, I think mutual limerence is rare. (Or rare-ish?) 😉
The power struggles between men and women that Camille Paglia talks about most likely refer to two people who are in a relationship with each other and also experiencing mutual limerence. Also, I think many of the stormy relationships between Hollywood celebrities, etc, are probably based on mutual limerence and hence the general instability of these unions despite the enormous privilege of the participants. 😉
“I think the limerent, unconsciously or not is the instigator and the LO is the innocent/unwilling participant.”
This is true in some, but certainly not all, cases. However, I think all limerents would benefit from asking themselves the question: “Does my LO really want a committed relationship with me?”
Your remark here highlights the importance of clear communication between limerent and LO. I.e. are both parties interested in moving forward toward a relationship? And, if so, are there obstacles in the way of that relationship?
“I think the mutual foundation of knowledge and friendship of two people is the ideal foundation of a solid relationship.”
Sounds good. I can’t find fault with this sentiment. Still, courting couples do seem hung up on the concept of “a spark”. Human nature resists the rational. 😆
“And limerence is nothing more than a drunk one night stand. And believe me I know a thing or two about drunk behavior.”
Mine was a little more complicated than a drunk one-night stand, although I know you’re talking in metaphors. No alcohol was involved. No one-stands were involved. I did manage to squeeze 27 years worth of wild mood swings out of the experience, though. Hahaha!
In sum, I think it’s almost impossible to get out of a LE until one’s hormones settle down. The limerent is essentially trapped by his/her hormones in the limerence haze/maze. I mean, a person can absorb all the right knowledge and be willing to make all the right judgement calls. But, in my experience, hormones have to settle down before the limerent will experience any significant improvement in mood. Even the most brilliant or morally enlightened among us can be held to ransom by their own hormones. That’s why limerents deserve kindness/support. 🤔
“This comment strikes me as a tiny bit harsh, although I know what you’re trying to say.”
I’m going to go after this one first. It is harsh. And this whole comment was a rant against myself. I hate that I might have left a negative impression on LO because I couldn’t see my own behavior. I don’t know why I care as I try to move on from her but I do. I hate that if I couldn’t see any cues from her that I was going to far, encroaching on her personal space, crossing boundaries and she was just too gracious to state them obviously that she has negative memories of me. That statement was a drunken crucifixion of myself.
“It’s almost like the limerent can’t stop the chain of reactions once that train has left the station.”
Yes. I remember the comment of LO that triggered it. “Thank you Adam you are so sweet.” In response to buying her favorite coffee drink from her favorite coffee shop. The smile and the sweet sound in her voice sent me down the rabbit hole. The same kind of comment from my wife for doing something for her that might send me into a spiral too. Damn you limerence. And yes I had no idea what my behavior was like with LO until she quit and was out of my life. Like realizing that last ounce of vodka you have is the last drink you will have until ……
“I respectfully disagree with you. I do believe mutual limerence exists”
Again this was a rant. I can concede that it may be so rare that it seems impossible. Soul mate, twin flame, limerence, love at first sight; count me a sceptic. I believe understanding, communication, vulnerability and dedication are what make for a foundation for a lasting relationship. I question with the rarity of mutual limerence if it isn’t an actual mutual connection at a deeper level than infatuation (limerence). But in hindsight I will admit I am a bit bitter.
“But, in my experience, hormones have to settle down before the limerent will experience any significant improvement in mood.”
I think this is where I am trapped now. I can easily see where I need to move on. My wife has been so gracious in giving me time to move on. But there are some emotions that trigger LO memories. And sometimes they are so random and have nothing to do with thoughts of my wife. It’s so stupid and infuriating. Like Marcia commented one time I think coming here is a double edged sword. I want to try and help with my story but I feel sometimes being here just exasperates my limermence because it makes me think of LO.
Sammy, you suffered 27 years from one LO? Oh my! You deserve an award, you poor thing. I did 17 years, but the limerence was dormant most of the time. It just got triggered when LO1 was brought to my attention periodically. His name caused pain in my stomach. I can’t imagine doing that for 27 years. I hope your LE went dormant, too.
“I.e. some LOs really do give off mixed signals and the limerent gets trapped into trying to figure out those mixed signals.”
I swear that if LO had never smiled at me, the limerence meteorite would never have crashed into me. On top of all that, I read every stare she gave me as a sign. I don’t think anyone not a limerent, can fully grasp how this feels. I myself didn’t think a crush could EVER feel so incredibly great to so unbelievably sad. But LOs beauty just took over and here I am.
“It’s almost like the limerent can’t stop the chain of reactions once that train has left the station.”
Days and weeks of ruminating, daydreaming, fantasizing, actual run-ins and being captivated by the sweet smell of her perfume. Her gorgeoues blue eyes that go on forever, that look like an ocean, I so want to dive into. Or noticing the pretty necklace she has on, that compliments her outfit so well..
Ain’t nothing going to stop this train. I’ve been so guilty of it all. So much that I feel like sometimes it will never stop. Yet I want it to stop. It’s unfair to believe this person is so perfect. I have prayed so much to see past perceived perfection. That I so want to know all about her past. Her hurts, why she was divorced, practically right after she married, was she abused? Does she have addictions? Medical issues? Does she lack faith? Is she angry? I know so very little and yet all I see is God’s Masterpiece. It’s insane. To bring me back down to earth takes time.
“But, in my experience, hormones have to settle down before the limerent will experience any significant improvement in mood.”
I’m kind of feeling in that same place with you Adam. That part also where coming on here is a double edged sword.
My Father is in the hospital and not doing the greatest but not the worst. I go to spend time with him, but he does a lot of sleeping. When he’s awake, he seems to be half way off the planet. Maybe it’s the drugs talking. My Daughters Prom was last night too. I didn’t even talk to her because she snapped on me a week ago, about what I’m not doing for her. So I’ve just kind of written her off. Terrible I can say that about my own kid, but divorce truly sucks.
Is it any wonder I’ve backed myself into the limerence corner? Sharing my story with all of you helps, but only so much. Sometimes it feels like love will never reach me again.. But I’m glad you’re all here.
Great topic btw too..