One of the factors that can make an LO “sticky” for single limerents is the ego-bruising disappointment that we were not good enough to persuade them into a relationship. Perversely, that can make LO more attractive and the sense of loss more pungent. That can make it even harder to detach.
As well as this blow to pride, ego can be a problem more generally during limerence. One of the less flattering scenarios is when the limerent is unavailable for a relationship, providing a built in barrier that adds to the uncertainty. In fact, I suspect this is one of the more common slippery slopes into limerence that marrieds would be advised to avoid.
Here’s my hypothesis, for a totally hypothetical scenario, that might hypothetically happen sometimes. It’s not in any way a personal confession or anything.
1. A stimulating glimmer
You meet someone who causes the glimmer. You flirt a bit, to see if there’s any response. There is! Hooo boy, this is fun!
2. You enjoy the attention
For many people in long term relationships, attention from someone new is invigorating and exciting. It’s delightful and validating to be reminded that you have romantic appeal beyond your role as Partner. Someone else sees your allure, and rates you attractive enough to be worth flirting with.
If that someone else also causes the glimmer, then the invigoration can escalate to intoxication.
3. You (partly) recognise the danger
Intoxication feels great, but often comes with a hangover. Once guilt starts reminding you of your commitments and loyalties, you make the sober decision to ease off.
Yes, it’s a bit shameful that you’ve been such a flirt, but they were partly responsible too, and anyway you’re not going to actually do anything or cross any red lines. You can handle this. You could walk away any time.
Just to be safe, though, better lay off the flirting for a while.
4. LO starts to cool off too
Your decision to chill a bit is noticed, responded to, and answered in kind. LO gets more cautious, maybe examines the wisdom of their own actions and decides to avoid any further embarrassment from flirting with a married person.
That waning interest from LO is where the troublesome ego kicks in.
5. You start to crave the old intoxication
Well this sucks. You weren’t planning on doing anything, but that doesn’t mean you wanted the well of attention and validation to dry up!
Perhaps you aren’t as attractive as you thought? Maybe LO has just been stringing you along? Maybe you didn’t actually make a decisive choice, maybe you were deluding yourself that they were even interested? You thought you didn’t want to go through that door, but now it’s starting to close… time to make a panicked reversal!
Better fire back up the flirtation engine and escalate the inappropriate gestures to prove you can still get the sweet validation when you need it…
6. Oops, you’re addicted
“Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap”
So, that’s the hypothetical. What does everyone think? Could such an outlandish scenario ever happen in real life…?
Any other ways that ego can cloud judgement during limerence?
I think limerence is highly tied up with ego. My LO was married; I was not. Contrary to what you’ll read on the internet, I had no interest in wrestling him away from his wife to feel like I had “won.” In my mind, she existed in some other sphere of his life that I wasn’t a part of and I was ok with that. But I did want to have an affair with him, and I felt like I failed or wasn’t enough because he said no. And I did fail. A no is a no. It was a rejection. It hurt but it also stung my ego.
So dealing with him (and one married dude after him) has soured me on wanting anything but the most perfunctory/pleasant-but-keep-my-distance interactions with married or partnered men. I don’t ever want to “go there” again. I don’t ever want to take them seriously again. There are a many other women who can give them validation or flirt with them. Doesn’t have to be me. 🙂
For me ego played a part.
I’ve had a “Henry Higgins” complex going back to adolescence. I didn’t want to “fix” them, I wanted to help them. Fixing someone is narcissistic and arrogant. Helping someone is noble and altruistic. I knew that if I changed them, either they would lose interest in me or I’d lose interest in them. One therapist actually said that to me. It was a prop I used to overcome the cognitive dissonance. It didn’t help that I was a Navy nuc who believed there is little we can’t fix and what little that is, we can work around.
The therapist was wrong, like Pygmalion of mythology, I attached to the LOs I was involved with. Unlike Pygmalion, the gods didn’t reward me for the effort. It was quite the opposite.
Chronology of an LE: https://livingwithlimerence.com/barriers-and-uncertainty/#comment-3742
Song of the Blog: “You Got Lucky” – Tom Petty (Oct 1982)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA2Hu-JEvNA
“You got lucky, babe
You got lucky, babe
When I found you”
This song came out the month before I was introduced to LO #2.
You exactly described my situation to a T. I’m married, my LO is married. The glimmer happened because I caught an attraction vibe from her, and guess what, I liked it!!! I pursued mildly testing the waters over the next couple weeks and she reciprocated mildly. But I also started feeling guilty and acted hesitant at times. My LOs response followed mine until I realized I didn’t want to back off.
But uh…oh. As I pursued again my LO seemed not to reciprocate much anymore. The vibe of attraction was still there but she was not willing to pursue me relationally outside the work office. She would respond mildly if I pursued but she would never initiate and I started to feel like I was becoming creepy guy. The uncertainty has built because at the office it was smiles, glances, gazes, laughter, positive body language. Everything that felt like attraction, but away from office nothing at all .
Still that way 8 months later but I have settled into a routine of managing my interactions which manage my emotions. But the lack of desire from her to pursue a personal relationship with me did hit my ego hard.
My speculation is that my LO does have some level of affection for me but is a non limerent and has no desire to reciprocate or pursue me outside the office.
Or she feels exactly the same, but decided that nothing good comes from pursuing it. She may have set a boundary to not interact with you outside of the office and just keep everything work-related. Take it as a gift!
I’m in a sort of similar situation: been glimmering for my boss (even before he became my boss) however did not think it would be reciprocated at all so I was fine, never thought much about it and clearly did not show it at all. Until he surprised me one eve after a staff party that apparently he does seem to like me a bit.
We both pretend nothing happened ever since (nothing happened other than the verbal confirmation of some sort of interest). All interaction is strictly professional, only at work, no personal contact and not much personal talk other than your appropriate small talk. There’s the odd eye contact that let’s me conclude that he didn’t just forget about it.
Since then, he’s in my head, it sucks. But hell I will not give him any sign of that. I do try to look at it as a gift that he behaves that way. I behave exactly like him, strictly professional. But sometimes I do wonder, the thoughts I have about him wondering what he thinks, would he not wonder the same about me, what I think? We behave exactly the same, complete pokerface like nothing happened.
Don’t get me wrong, it doesn’t matter what he thinks, I have been very pre-emptive that night that I have no interest whatsoever in anything further. I’m just more wondering, this “what is the other person thinking” game goes both ways.
Trust me, I have spent many an hour trying to determine the nature of her affection. It is that exact uncertainty that seems to kick my LE into overdrive. Uncertainty as discussed on LWL is certainly a driver of an LE.
I was maybe a little too absolute about her initiation with me away from the office. She has initiated non work related texting with me off work hours a handful of times but just about every one of them was a social media meme that she thinks I might find funny or interesting. It is never relational/conversational. Everytime I try to move the texting to be more conversational she will emoji kill the conversation (emoji kill is responding back with only an emojis). She does not seem to want to pursue conversation with me in a normal adult back and forth nature.
Maybe she does feel the same but is just a lot better at personal discipline. Or maybe me being 15 years older and her boss she is more intimated to initiate. Not sure, but whatever it is our relationship is not expanding and it is tough as a limerent to not get that relational reciprocation from my LO.
Take the fact that you are older, her boss and married out of the equation for a minute. If you were single and she was giving you the same level of reciprocation, would you continue to pursue her?
Marcia, not sure what you are getting at? No I would not pursue that person, but at this point I don’t pursue her anymore either. I don’t text her personally at all. It is really just our in office interactions that leave me confused about her feelings for me.
You wrote you spent hours trying to figure out her feelings. I was trying to show a different way of looking at the situation. If you were single and were thinking of pursuing her, you would probably decide not to based on her level of reciprocation. Looking at it from that perspective may free you a bit from the limerence because she isn’t doing all that much.
Did you have some sort of disagreement that could have caused tension and made LO pull back? Sometimes we can offend people and not realize how much of impact it makes.
Ryan,
Have you read https://livingwithlimerence.com/limerence-for-a-co-worker/?
Limerence is bad enough. Limerence for a co-worker is worse. Limerence for a subordinate is a recipe for disaster.
If you’re inclined. Cruise through the older blogs and search for a poster named Fred. We nicknamed his LO the “Manic Pixie Dream Girl.” Another poster, I can’t remember who it was, gave his LO an equity position in his company. Another poster claimed he got fired after he disclosed to a co-worker. Still another poster claimed he got disbarred after getting into an LE with a client.
You have to keep in mind that you only control one side of this dance. Things can change and they can change fast. A lot of limerents secretly hope that they do but things never seem to change in the direction of the “fairy-tale-ending.” They’re usually more of the “Oh, s–t!” variety.
@LE
I had not read thru that blog post before, though I have read thru many others. Thanks for that.
I am hyper aware of the pitfalls of my LE to a subordinate. Both emotionally but also legally. The ‘When Not To Disclose’ blog post was very timely for me a number of months back. I have kept all our interactions with my LO appropriate in a legal sense but maybe not so much in an emotional or moral sense. But I also worry that line can be blurred quite easily.
I am now in a phase of LC for a couple months with minor slip ups here and there. I have been fairly good at stabilizing my emotions, and knowing my triggers. Consistent routine of interaction and LC rules with my LO has been the trick. There are 8 of us in a 1,500 SF office so distance is not an option for me. It’s tricky but I manage.
Unlike a lot of coworker LE my LO does not really pursue interaction with me outside the office. I should count that as a blessing as many others seem to deal with LOs that seem quite aggressive at times.
I take it day by day and some days feel better and others are tough. Sometimes for no good reason. I have found though that my pitfalls are on the days I feel better not the tough days. The better days are when I am more likely to send that text…because hey, why not, I feel good about things. This one beer can’t really hurt much can it?
@Ryan,
” I have found though that my pitfalls are on the days I feel better not the tough days. The better days are when I am more likely to send that text…because hey, why not, I feel good about things. This one beer can’t really hurt much can it?”
Surprise!
DrL has a blog on that topic, too! https://livingwithlimerence.com/im-totally-over-this-lets-go-for-coffee/
Personally, I think it’s one of his underrated blogs. It opens up a lot of other topics to pull strings on.
Well, besides ignoring the fact that he “showed interest” and literally does pretend nothing happened, he now wants me to meet his wife (in a group setting with people from work at his place).
Guess someone regrets the affirmation and must passively pass me a message…. Am I wrong with that assumption?
Maybe. Or he is trying to find ways to get past what happened and he thinks you meeting his wife might help accomplish that.
I’m a believer in the little cues over the grander gestures. I always feel the little cues don’t lie where the grander gestures have all kinds of motivations behind them. If your gut says he h
Oops…forgot to finish thought. If your gut is telling you something off the little cues, I tend to believe it.
I don’t like little cues as they get you thinking and interpreting with a chance to overemphasize certain small things that may not even carry that much meaning.
For now, I try to focus on the negative to get this guy out of my head (e.g. he tells me stuff twice, or he does not remember things about me that we clearly talked at lengths about, that shows me he really doesn’t care much about conversations with me, if he did he would remember). I hope with that, he becomes less attractive in my head.
Your examples are the little cues I am talking about. You are picking up on negative cues from him and using them to form a narrative about his true feelings.
My LO is the opposite. She will remember little stuff I said from months back and bring it up later out of the blue just to show she remembers stuff about me. But my LO never does any grand gestures so the little cues are all I have to go on.
“Well, besides ignoring the fact that he “showed interest” and literally does pretend nothing happened, he now wants me to meet his wife (in a group setting with people from work at his place).”
Decline that invitation.
The corollary: LO #2 asked if I was seeing someone. I told her that I was. LO #2 said, “I want to meet her.” My response was, “Nothing good can come from that.”
LO #2 was not going to be a part of my new relationship. Triangulating relationships is a topic unto itself and it’s a crappy way to operate and a worse way to live with. My recommendation is don’t become the third side of a triangle. Anybody who triangulates relationships is clueless at best and malicious at worst.
There’s a great string buried in an early blog about introducing your LO to your SO. As I remember it, the SO was totally clueless and the LO wasn’t.
@Ryan: yeah, I choose to focus on the negative cues to reprogram my brain. I could also use the awkward eye contacts etc, but I don’t want that to be part of the narrative. It doesn’t help me to neutralize how I see him.
@Limerent Emeritus: I can’t decline the invitation as it is a celebratory team dinner in a small circle, and the invitation is extended to me given a new role I will assume soon (which is part of that celebration). I just expected it to be at a restaurant rather than his home with his wife and kid. I’ll just have to suck it up for that night. No drinks for me for sure, I will keep my head clear and keep my composure.
Gotta focus on reprogramming my mind. I feel my LE is not that bad snd actually was pretty manageable before that unfortunate disclosure. I will get back to that state.
Agree nothing good comes from introducing LO to SO.
Well, I’m sorry, Ryan but that now sounds more like she’s giving you just enough attention to keep you going and she knows it.
I don’t see a covert narcissist behind every person, but i do think normal human beings are flattered by knowing someone likes them and they want to keep that up, and by your description it sounds like she’s initiating just enough to keep you on the hook. Sending you memes (aka: hey I’ve been thinking about you) but then not engaging in further conversation?
Does sound like she just wants to make sure you stay hooked. I bet you anything if you start giving her the cold shoulder or even just stop with the trying to engage her in a conversation she WILL start to probe you more. I bet you anything.
I agree Sarah. But I also wonder if she’s just trying to stay in her boss’ good graces by appearing to be “friendly” ever now and again vs standoffish? The boss / employee dynamic makes this one quite tricky IMHO.
Yeah, but I would imagine she would not that often proactively send memes and non-work related things. The fact that she then kills the conversation lets me believe it is more intentional to invoke a certain reaction in the receiver. But agree with the boss-employee dynamic that is complicated.
This conversation is timely because just this last Saturday evening after a week at the office that felt like we had good in office connection she sent me a video over text of a dog she thought was cute. I have not initiated a personal text with her in weeks so this felt very out of the blue and random.
It’s these kinds of things that throw me into a fury of trying to figure out what’s going on. Why send that text, especially on a weekend night? She is either trying to signal “look at me, I’m still here” or she is really just that immature and finds sending out videos to people fun and silly. Not sure which.
And right on cue, as I engaged back I got only a thumbs up emoji a few texts in killing off any conversational aspect to the texting.
The problem with the boss-employee dynamic, is I can never be sure what might be genuine sentiment from her and what is her just trying to be in good graces with me.
Ryan,
It’s possible that she thought you would enjoy the video and that’s all. Maybe it made her smile and she thought it would make you smile.
@ Lovisa
For certain it could just be that. But if so then my view is that a 35 year old woman sending her older boss a text of a cute dog video on a Saturday night is pretty immature. There is no back context for us and dogs so it’s quite random. My other 3 female employees would never do this.
Ryan,
You have a point that it seems like immature behavior and most people wouldn’t do it. It makes sense that you are trying to figure out why she did it.
My LO has taken an interesting turn over last 2 weeks. She has ramped up her texting of thoughts, pics, videos, etc now to about every other day and the last time started to get more into back and forth conversation with me. All of it her initiation. We have had some very good in office interactions lately and all this new texting comes in the midst of that and my pulling back of initiating texts with her. We are certainly in some kind of dance right now. Can’t lie, the attention feels great, but at the same time I know nothing good is going to come of it. Ughhh!
Ryan, that is kind of ironic because a month ago you were disappointed that she didn’t initiate contact outside of the office. It sounds like this new frequency of personal contact is triggering excitement and confusion in you which makes sense. You have my sympathy.
I tried to ponder what would motivate me to behave the way you describe her behavior. The best I could think is that she enjoys communicating with you and she trusts that you like it, too. It doesn’t necessarily mean she feels romantic attraction for you. She could genuinely see you as a potential friend. Maybe you make her laugh and she wants to reciprocate. And, I’m sorry to point this out, she could see you as a father- figure and she could be oblivious to your romantic interest in her. But, of course I can’t actually tell you what she thinks.
I noticed that other LwL commenters recommended caution on your part because you are her boss. I think that is sound advice.
Best of luck! Hang in there.
Thanks for your thoughts, Lovisa.
I have thought often that her level of affection may be more of a father figure type or male role model type. Her own father is not alive anymore, she has a strained relationship with her husband, and she has no other family on her side in the area. I am definitely a provider for her, and she knows I value her and appreciate her as a professional woman (as with my other female employees) and as a person. There is something going on between us that has moved beyond normal boss/employee relationship with the vibe of our interactions and at this point I think she knows I’m attracted to her. Her attraction to me may not be romantic, but she has a strong comfort level around me and a greater affection for me than what seems normal. That line between father figure and romantic interest could probably be quite blurry and if she knows I am attracted to her it is certainly not creeping her out. The hero identity in me with her is very strong. It is talked about quite often here on LWL as being a catalyst of an LE. I certainly feel it with her and my LE. In the office there is a tangible vibe of attraction between us. Looks, smiles, glances, strong eye contact on her part, etc. Out of office over text it has been very guarded on her part, which is why these last couple weeks have been surprising with her frequency of initiating texting with me and her letting loose more.
As for my role as her boss, I have been very careful to not cross an overtly flirty line. We don’t have any physical touching and we don’t discuss highly personal things. I would categorize all our conversations as friendly chit chat and when we do get more serious in conversation it is usually about raising kids.
If she is making more overtures towards me I need to proceed with very much caution. Trying to make sense of it all.
Ryan, you seem to be outwardly handling this situation with your LO very well. But I can see how it is hard on your emotions.
I see that you may fill a father-type need for her due to her family structure. The way you described her family life triggered sympathy in me, I can only imagine what it is doing to you. I am trying to put myself in her shoes so I can give you a female perspective. I had a boss who played a father role in my life. So much that he used to refer to me as his only daughter because he had 5 sons. We were close. But you are correct that if I had sensed any romantic attraction from him, I would have recoiled. You say that she might know you are attracted to her and it hasn’t deterred her. Hmmm, that seems significant to me. It suggests she sees you as more of a peer.
I feel sympathy for you that she triggered your hero identity. That is definitely an irresistible part of an LE. But it helps that you have good self-awareness so you can catch yourself if you try to rescue her in any way.
I am concerned about the “tangible vibe of attraction” between you two in the office. Are others noticing or commenting about your relationship with her? Please be cautious.
It makes sense that you are looking for answers. But does it really matter if she is romantically attracted to you? Your thoughts and your behavior is what matters.
Remember that this LE will pass and you will want to be proud of how you handled it.
All very true. Early on in my friendship with LO #2, she started flirting with me a bit. All of it was cloaked in plausible deniability, but she eventually stopped flirting. Still, I continued saying some flirty and complimentary things to her. She obviously enjoyed them, but I always thought she realized what she had done and cooled off a bit because she didn’t want to create a monster by giving me too much validation (I’m married although very unhappily so; I won’t cheat while my wife and I are still living under the same roof, but I have told her numerous times that I want out of the marriage). LO #2 also pointedly mentioned the type of guys she is into (they’re nothing like me), and for a while she was bragging about her conquests. Still, we became very good friends and we started doing a lot one-on-one (it was always platonic but we did confide a lot in each other and we did enjoy each other’s company). Most people assumed we were a couple when we were out together, even though at one point she wanted me to accompany her to “better” places so she could meet men. I suspect she realized that wasn’t going to work out for her if everyone assumed we were together.
Fast forward to a few months ago, and my LO decided she wanted to branch out and meet some new people and go to new places. She told me how she was fed up with the same old, same old, and she suggested we do some new and interesting things, even during the day on weekends. The problem is my wife would never allow that, and I was limited in terms of my finances. My LO also found a new “bestie” she could hang out with (a single woman closer to her own age (my LO is older than me)). I was also super jealous when she was dating someone for a bit (although it didn’t last).
The jealousy and the impossibility of the situation — coupled with my anger at being replaced as her special (platonic) friend by this new person — made me try to go no contact. I declared my feelings to her and explained why I was cutting her out of my life. But she didn’t accept that, and told me not to do it. She promised things wouldn’t be awkward between us moving forward, but they are awkward. She treats me completely differently now, and I haven’t seen her for a month. She never comes out with us anymore, and I don’t even invite her places because I know she’ll say she has other plans anyway, and I don’t want to give her the satisfaction of kissing her ass. We’re still Facebook friends and she’s still on our group chat. Occasionally, she will participate in our chat, but usually she just lurks. It’s like she wants to know what we’re up to, but she is very cagey about giving us details of what she’s doing. Somehow I resent this. I wish she’d just leave our group chat. Either she is still part of our group or she isn’t. I don’t have anything against people having other friends and interests and making other plans, but to completely ditch your friend group you had done so much with is hurtful (I’m not the only one in the group who feels this way). More than anyone else, she and I had grown very close, and now we don’t even talk. I feel like she’s just keeping us on the back burner in case things change with the woman she’s now joined at the hip with.
The anger is helping me get over her. I don’t obsess over her to nearly the same degree. Sure, I miss her, but things will never be the same with her now no matter what happens. I honestly thought I was in love, but I firmly believe now that I was in love with the woman I thought she is, not the woman she actually is. Since I lost my friendship with LO #2, I have started to recover from the limerence. I’m much more productive at work. I don’t come onto this site nearly as often. I am starting to think through and implement some solutions to the real problems I’m faced with in my life. I think more about my career and strategies to reinvent myself and get my daughter and myself out of this shitty family situation. Surely recovery is what we all want, but I can’t help but feel like life somehow isn’t as rich and fulfilling without her, and I don’t feel like I have anything to look forward to now that I am unlikely to ever see her again. Part of me wants to block and unfriend her, but that would cause too much drama. Maybe engaging in a slow fade is the best strategy? Somehow I find it hard to imagine her being one of my bullshit friends I have on Facebook who are really just people I used to know and will never see again. I don’t think I care to have that type of relationship with her.
I realized those feelings were totally unhealthy,
Not sure where the last line came from. I suspect I meant to delete it.
Vicarious,
“Part of me wants to block and unfriend her, but that would cause too much drama. Maybe engaging in a slow fade is the best strategy?”
It kind of sounds like she’s already done the fade. When someone pulls that far back, I let them. You could block her. You could go in after her and ask her why you never see her. But I’ve found that once someone has checked out like that, there’s not much you can do. If you are looking to stick it to them or hurt them a bit (a natural response because they’ve hurt you), they’re long gone.
What you can do is not engage with her on the group chat if she pipes in with a comment or two, not respond if she contacts you individually to hang out again at some point and keep your distance if she reappears at group events. You say hello and then go sit with other people. Make it clear that friendship with you is off the table.
Yeah, I think she has already done the slow fade thing with me. I am not sure how much of it was due to the declaration of my feelings and how much of it was her just being fed up with the old group and the old haunts (and many of the same bands we would go and see). I know she was frustrated with another person in our group (and possibly two), but even if she wasn’t upset with me, I feel like I am being punished. I have seen her four times since my declaration. The first time was a little awkward, but the next two times seemed to be approaching how things used to be. Then the last time I saw her, she treated me very standoffishly and very differently from my other friends. I called her out on that, but she said it wasn’t intentional.
Even just as a friend, I really miss her, and I too am getting bored with the same old, same old. In some ways, I would love to reach out to her and do some new things with her (and likely her new bestie because I figure that if you can’t beat ’em, join ’em). She may even be responsive to me, but somehow I don’t think so. I’m scared of the rejection, so I’ve left the ball in her court. I don’t want to stroke her ego at this point, so I think our friendship is basically dead. I think you’re right about not being too warm towards her if and when I see her again, and I will tell her where to go if she reaches out to me (if she is only reaching out because her new bestie has ditched her — this woman is known to ditch her friends once she gets a steady boyfriend). But if she legitimately and genuinely reaches out to me as a friend and tells me she misses me and wants to hang out again, I probably would give her a chance, yet things will never be quite the same again. I’m still not 100% sure she isn’t a bit jealous and hurt at me getting closer to my glimmery friend, despite me telling my LO that she just isn’t her and things aren’t the same. Paradoxically, things aren’t the same with my glimmery friend either, and I think part of that could be because I told her that I have a thing for my LO. I’m also a little fed up with my glimmery friend because of her extreme views on certain topics, which go completely against my worldview.
It’s funny how we are all supposedly looking for recovery from limerence. Yet, it can be a double-edged sword when it does happen. I am sad about losing her, but I don’t obsess over her like I used to. The problem is that I feel a hole and a void in my life. So many times I’ve wished I could tell her certain things or see her, but I have to remind myself it isn’t going to happen. Recovery from limerence is both a positive and a negative thing.
” I will tell her where to go if she reaches out to me (if she is only reaching out because her new bestie has ditched her — this woman is known to ditch her friends once she gets a steady boyfriend). But if she legitimately and genuinely reaches out to me as a friend and tells me she misses me and wants to hang out again, I probably would give her a chance, yet things will never be quite the same again. ”
I don’t see how you would know what her motivation is unless you point-blank ask her if the other friend has ditched her.
I’m not really a fan of telling people off. I don’t think it changes anything. You already told her she was being standoffish. Did she change her behavior after that? That’s always the tell-tale sign. If you’ve told someone their behavior hurt you and they do nothing to change it, I don’t know if telling them off will affect them.
I mean, you could throw out an invitation to her if you’re still interested in being friends. To meet up for lunch or something. Why does her other friend or even anyone in the group have to go? If she’s not receptive, well … you may have to write off the friendship. I’m sorry to say that. And if she circles back around at some point, you can decided what you want to do. But in all honesty, ignoring someone is the worst thing you can do. Telling them off lets them know they got to you.
I think it is normal to feel that void when an LO withdraws.
I missed my previous LO so much, and I had to tell myself there are other people that can fill that hole, maybe not one person that fills all, but a few friends that give me s little bit of what I missed from LO.
Take it as a chance to move forward without LO. Focus on other things snd mentally say goodbye to LO yo be ready and open for new experiences with new people.
Thanks Marcia and Sarah. I think I would hear if LO #2’s bestie meets a new boyfriend, and if my LO (#2) reached out just after that I would be pretty sure it was because her new friend has ditched her. Marcia, you asked why her bestie or my other friends have to be there, well I suspect my LO would no longer be comfortable hanging out one-on-one with me after I told her how I feel. I’ve also began to realize that the way things are right now, I have to accept my LO’s bestie if I am going to have my LO in my life. They are absolutely joined at the hip and do EVERYTHING together now, so much so that if I didn’t know my LO is totally straight, I would suspect they’re dating. My LO thinks the sun shines out of this woman’s arse. I have nothing against her, but I don’t know why my LO is so obsessed with her.
Sarah, I agree with you about filling the void. I have to basically treat my LO as if she’s gone and never coming back. I need to try to get what I did from her from other people, although, like LO #2, I also feel bored with the same old, same old every weekend. Another problem is that I had romantic feelings for my LO and I don’t for anyone else. My marriage is totally on the rocks, and I want out, but my wife won’t accept that. My so-called glimmery friend is a tricky one too. She was very flirty with me, but she is married. She openly admits to being flirty with me a few months ago, but she now says she was never into me (she said this only after I told her I have a thing for LO #2). Her views are so weird and extreme, and because she’s married I can’t see me ever becoming limerent for her. We were kind of gravitating towards one another, but I’m not even sure I should be associating with this woman. She is fun and attractive and seems to like me, but I just don’t like her lack of morals or her worldview. I kind of feel phony and disingenuous hanging out with her, but I don’t want to lose this friend group (she has become good friends with the rest of the group as well). The other problem is my glimmery friend is good friends with LO #1 (very small world!). I haven’t been limerent for LO #1 in a long time, but she is back in my life now (in a small way) and I still like her and would be interested in a chance with her if my marriage fell apart. It’s all so complicated. It isn’t just limerence but friendship that’s at stake here with the only group of people who want to hang out with me on a regular basis. I want to branch out and do new things — and the person I could do that with is LO #2 — yet I don’t think she would entertain me at this point. So, I probably need to explore new horizons on my own (while not completely ditching my existing friends). It’s tough but I will manage somehow.
So, I’ve reconnected with LO #2. We are hanging out a bit again, but never one-on-one. Things will probably never be quite the same, but I’m basically alright with that. I’m still very attracted to her and I like her as a friend, but the romantic interest isn’t nearly as strong as it once was. I’m finally getting over this and I didn’t have to go no contact to do it!
Hi, VL,
“I’m finally getting over this and I didn’t have to go no contact to do it!”
A little bargaining going on, maybe?
https://livingwithlimerence.com/im-totally-over-this-lets-go-for-coffee/
This is a form of brinksmanship. If it works, it works.
This kind of thing can change on a dime and spin out of control. Dirty little secret: As limerents, we often harbor some secret hope that it does. It adds just the right amount of edge to things. If you can hang there, it’s like a hit of nitrous oxide. But, if something changes, it’s “Oh, s–t!”
https://livingwithlimerence.com/can-limerence-be-safely-harnessed/
Good luck!
Thanks LE. I am sure there was some bargaining on my end, but it’s funny how my LO was the one who initially bargained with me after I declared my feelings to her. She swore things wouldn’t be different — at least not for her — but they are different. She isn’t the same with me and I’m probably not quite the same with her either. Nevertheless, I’ve seen her twice in the last three weeks, so she is back in my life.
I feel like there are three parts to my feelings for my LO: (1) friendship, (2) attraction and (3) romantic interest. The attraction remains as does the friendship (although she’s come down from the pedestal I put her on to a certain extent), but the romantic interest is the part that isn’t nearly as strong. I think it’s really starting to sink in that she wouldn’t likely be a good fit for me as a romantic partner even if I was single. I am hoping things can become like they are with LO #1. I still like her and she is back in my life (in a fairly small way), but in no way am I pining away for her and I can’t ever see being limerent for her again.
“So, that’s the hypothetical. What does everyone think? Could such an outlandish scenario ever happen in real life…?”
Haha, have you been spying on my sorry ass, Dr L?
It is quite sobering and embarrassing how very very typical we all can be though this LE feels oh so special (such suffering simply cannot be run of the mill, surely?)
Sigh. I admit it, being in a long-term relationship for over two decades, it is a HUGE ego boost to have someone showing interest … and I enjoyed it. It is more about me than even my glimmery LO.
“Sigh. I admit it, being in a long-term relationship for over two decades, it is a HUGE ego boost to have someone showing interest … and I enjoyed it. It is more about me than even my glimmery LO.”
But there has to be more than someone showing interest. I’m assuming in two decades of a long-term relationship, there’s been some flirtation with someone else. Or maybe several people. Two decades … that’s a long time. There has to be something specific about your LO that set you off or it’s where you are in life, etc. It can’t just be getting signs of interest because then you (universal you) would be limerent at the drop of a hat.
I think you might be surprised how uncommon this is for many people. Superficial flirting might be common enough, but more serious displays of interest are rare. If it’s someone you feel the glimmer for, then it’s even more of a unicorn.
Yes, I’ve superficially flirted and been flirted to (and can barely remember the who and when, whereas I will never forget my LO I think!) … but like Dr L said, a show of intense interest from LO who glimmered from the word go, made me feel both glimmery (ego boost) and attracted to a glimmer at the same time. Intoxicating combination. Add to that the feeling that my long-term SO did NOT find me quite so glimmery at the time …
I did take this LE as a wake-up call. The feeling of being glimmery made me pay more attention to my appearance more than I had for years. It made me notice that I wasn’t flirting with my SO, or presenting my best self (and why not?) Seriously, this LE, excruciating though it has been, has reinvigorated my relationship with my SO because it made me realize that relationship was not in a healthy state and I needed to pay it some serious attention. It is taking time to get over the LE, but step by step I am reorienting toward my SO and LO is fading in importance. It helps that SO is responding well to my efforts, and therefore giving me the validation that my ego obviously craves!
My LE started because the flirting felt different, more sincere rather than fun. First time I had that vibe with another woman in 25 years. I have had plenty of superficial fun flirting over the years but this was different with the LO. It felt like real attraction and it absolutely exhilarated me and I reciprocated not knowing the glimmer was in full swing.
Limmy,
“Yes, I’ve superficially flirted and been flirted to (and can barely remember the who and when, whereas I will never forget my LO I think!)”
Ryan,
“My LE started because the flirting felt different, more sincere rather than fun. First time I had that vibe with another woman in 25 years. I have had plenty of superficial fun flirting over the years but this was different with the LO. It felt like real attraction and it absolutely exhilarated me and I reciprocated not knowing the glimmer was in full swing.”
Both of these sentiments are exactly what I mean. Most people figure out by a certain age that 90 to 95 percent of flirting is sport. Means nothing or very little, is indicative of not much and no one intends to move on it. It’s just something fun to do . Generalized attention should not move someone that much. If it does, I don’t know if that’s someone who’s going to make the best long-term partner. But limerence, idk. It’s a whole different ballgame.
Sounds like poor Ryan and I got hit by the limerence bus after over two decades of commitment to our SOs. It was a bit of a shock, and happened so fast (again the bus crash analogy).
Like Ryan, it felt so much more significant … almost like the harbinger of an alternative might-have-been life. The grief I felt at having to let it go of the possibility was wrenching, it felt life-shattering, and is all the worse because I had to grieve it alone.
Limerence is, as you say, Marcia, a different ballgame. There is something about our LOs that speak to a fundamental part of ourselves, be it biological or psychological, and it hurts and feels just wrong to cast out this person from our lives (although our brains tell us it is wrong to keep them in our lives). I just want to acknowledge that it is hard.
Limmy,
“Like Ryan, it felt so much more significant … almost like the harbinger of an alternative might-have-been life.”
That’s a great description. It feels like the Universe is throwing you a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that you can’t pass up. You feel beyond strongly for the person, they are showing interest … you aren’t sure how much, but the fact that they are at all .. you feel like you’ve hit the motherlode. It’s divine. At first.
But, at least for my LO, I don’t think he felt anywhere near as strongly as I did and it was just attention. An exaggerated flirtation. And he was never going to act on it, so what was the point? There’s a great line in a Wham! song. “You sang me a simple tune. I took it for s a song.”
Limmy: Was there a trigger for you, an event when it all started? Was it just meeting your LO for the first time?
Ah, yes, I’ve analyzed our “meet cute” in minute detail of course. I actually have a theory about this. I had just been upset about something (unrelated) just before I met LO. We were then introduced by a mutual friend, and I confided in them my upset (something I normally wouldn’t do with a stranger, and I was more telling my friend what had happened, but LO was there too), and LO was soooo sympathetic and kind. Accidental oversharing perhaps? They then both decided to do something really nice to cheer me up. My theory is that the upset had me awash in adrenaline or cortisol, and then I was soothed and cared for by LO and my friend, which triggered feel-good hormones in response, and somehow the alchemy of all those neurochemicals was a trigger. You know how they say if you ride rollercoasters with someone you are more likely to fall in love? I think my being upset was something similar. Also – our little pinkies touched by accident just once, in that first meeting, and he startled, and I startled (glimmer). I ignored it, he ignored it, but as fate would have it, I ran into him several times by accident the next couple of weeks, and that was that. I was deep, deep in limerence before the month was out. To be fair, so was he, I think (certainly my friend thought so when she saw us together). But – my SO! It was mortifying.
What were other people’s triggers?
You make me think… as with both LO’s, current and last one, I generally just had a positive feeling about them. They were interesting. Now that I think of it, both were not who I expected. There was something interesting there that doesn’t fit the stereotypical picture I saw, and they surprised me by being different. But at that point, I’m not limerent.
What in the end triggered it was some sign that they just like me back, that they find me surprisingly interesting too.
Mine happened over a district 10 day period. What is interesting about mine is my LO was my employee for 3.5 years before this glimmer happened. I had never before had a serious romantic thought for her even though she is objectively attractive. Also, there were times prior that I had actually been frustrated and annoyed with her from an boss/employee standpoint. So trust me when I say the LE came literally out if nowhere and hit me like a freight train.
3 things happened. 1. It was my LOs birthday and I took her and 2 other employees to lunch. During that lunch she acted a little more gregarious and slightly flirty than normal. It caught my attention. 2. A few days later we had to go somewhere together, about 20 min drive, and had to wait in a waiting room together for about 40 min. During that time we chatted a lot and her body language was off the hook. Derp eye contact, leaning in close., Smiling, playing with hair. All of a sudden this girl I never had feelings for looked more beautiful than I ever knew. The vibe of attraction was thick. 3. That Sunday morning she texted me just to say hi and tell me a follow up to something we had discussed before. She had never texted me personally before and then on a weekend. This made me feel like she was pursuing me and I was exhilarated. The glimmer crystalized and my LE began.
“Dr. L once said, there’s no more powerful an aphrodisiac than the thought that someone might fancy you.”
I think the only exception then is someone whose limerence is totally fantasy-based, like for a movie star. But for most of us here, we all sort of fell into it because we thought our LO was someone that might fancy us, ergo we are fanciable, ergo our egos got stoked.
I think sometimes limerence can be a feedback loop between the limerent and the LO, and ONE person AT LEAST has to make a change for the back and forth to break. In my case, although I did not intend to start anything with LO, to be perfectly honest (and I am not proud of this) I still wanted LO to like me, or as Sarah puts it, to keep a good impression of me. But I actually needed for him to stop liking me that way, for me to start to stop liking him that way.
I wish I could say I was the strong and noble one, but LO was the one who was more firm about withdrawing once he accepted I was a lost cause (I actually think he would have been happy to embark on an affair based on some oblique things he hinted at, but there was absolutely no way I was doing that – so maybe I am a little noble after all). Marcia did mention her ego was hurt when her LO did not want to embark on an affair with her, so who knows, maybe there was some of that going on for my LO as well. All in all, everyone putting out the Stop signs. And everyone reading the Stop signs.
And although this was something I resisted, once it did happen, after the initial big pain and grief, it helped a lot for me to start towards being free.
You do well, Limmy, keeping your boundary and not embarking on any affair!
You got me thinking again about the point that we may hurt LO’s ego by showing them we do not want it to go further, which gets them to withdraw…
That night, LO asked me what I wanted, and I responded with saying I can tell you what I don’t want, I want no affair, and if you’re getting at “hey, if you just want to sleep with me we can arrange that, as I am in an open marriage or whatever” (I’ve gotten those offers before) then let me stop you right there as I am not the woman on the side and neither am I in an open marriage or any other form that would allow that. I did ramble on and asked him if “this” is a “normal” thing for him (he really did surprise me by showing interest in me that night and it is not uncommon or used to be normal that people had affairs back in the day, I work in a very alpha male dominated industry)
Also, I kept on saying how wrong this is given we are both married and he is my boss. Eventually, I said there is a line that cannot be crossed (the many things I said that night…. I think at that point I had so much to drink that I just kept on saying how this cannot happen, for his and for my sake. I had to hold myself back with any fiber of my body, but I did it. At the end, he said I should not worry, he will not pull me over the line (I appreciated that). And that was the end, we do not talk about it and pretend nothing happened. And I am messed up now….
But I guess I must have hurt his ego that night by fighting so hard against it. Also I am glad I was that clear, although in my head I still want to kiss him so very much, and I know that’s wrong, but at least I feel I’ve left no uncertainty.
Bottom line, that was probably the best outcome of that night and I should be thankful we now treat each other like boss-subordinate again. Now I just need to get him out of my head for good.
@Limmy,
I don’t think my last LO fancied me. When I disclosed to her, she said that she had no idea. We did have a relationship and developed an attachment, it just wasn’t a romantic one. At least, not for her.
DrL also said, “There is nothing so alluring as a damaged soul you’re sure you can fix.” – https://livingwithlimerence.com/the-glimmer-givers/
The problems came when she let me try.
Well done to you too, Sarah, for holding the line even when you’ve had some drinks! And with mutual disclosure of interest … it took some fortitude to resist. And you should not feel bad about still wanting to kiss the guy, I mean, you are married, not dead! The point is that you didn’t. And your intent is to get over this.
“I guess I must have hurt his ego that night by fighting so hard against it.” Well, I mean they probably want us to desire them so much that we totally lose our minds and sacrifice *everything* – our marriages, our SOs, our children (if we have any), our integrity, our self-conception, our reputation, the lives we built for years … in a way, the more you have to lose, the more “proof” there is as to how irresistible they are. They want to be liked, lusted after, special, just as much as we do.
A reasonable LO will understand that sometimes the price is just too high, and that might take the sting out of rejection a bit. That it isn’t a reflection of their personal attractiveness, but some other obstacle. But I can see some LOs would take it as an affront that you *could* resist them. It depends how big their egos are!
Also, from my LO, I got the impression that he just didn’t want to be pining away for someone he couldn’t have. If he was mutually limerent (or even if it was just a crush), then he would have been suffering too. For the longest time while he was withdrawing, he just refused to look at me for more than a few seconds, quite a contrast to those long searching looks he used to give me. Now that we are both more “over” it, we’ve cautiously begun to look at each other more like normal people do, not so deeply, but not with avoidance either. The eyes really are the windows to the soul.
@Limerent Emiritus
DrL also said, “There is nothing so alluring as a damaged soul you’re sure you can fix.”
At the risk of sound stereotypical, I wonder if there is a gendered pattern to this? I think men are more likely to want to fix things and make things better. I certainly have no desire to fix any damaged soul. The closest I get to it is that I do find my nurturing instincts aroused … like I really want to care for my LO, and imagine that I am the one to give him comfort in this hard harsh world … lol, romantics, the whole lot of us!
In that same link you shared, Dr L refers to the idea of “complementary pathologies”. That fascinated me, because it suggests that the answer to our pathologies is hidden somewhere in this obsession, which means, if we crack the code, we understand something about ourselves better (and hopefully can fix that – see, I’m interested in fixing myself, not LO). But the truth is, I think I actually have complementary pathologies more with my *SO* than LO. I think that is why we have a successful marriage, we supplement and complement. LO on the other hand remind me more of myself – if I ever was with LO I think we would be quickly on the road to ruin because would be no balance, we would be very extreme together (in our vices).
@Limmy,
Different things trigger different people.
After her relationship collapsed, LO #4 sent me an email saying she’d had a rough night and was feeling really down. I sent her an email trying to cheer her up and maybe get her to crack a smile.
She sent an email back saying my email had made her cry. I apologized and said that wasn’t what I intended. I was trying to make her feel better and smile. She came back with, “I know. That’s why I cried.”
That went through me like water through a chain link fence.
But, that’s me.
@Limmy:
It was probably a reasonable choice of your LO to accept that it won’t go anywhere and the reactions you describe seem a logical choice of someone that tries to get over someone. Sounds like your LO felt similar to you but tried to distance himself.
I do not think that my LO is a narcissist or has any bad intent. There was one thing he said that makes me believe he may feel similar to how I feel. His reaction now seems to me that he may also accept that this cannot be and tries to just maintain a professional relationship, which is good.
Although I strongly reacted to his invitation re dinner at his home, I feel that rather than him giving me a message (aka look at me with my wife and kid and how happy I am) which was my first thought, it might as well be a misguided attempt of him to manage his feelings by seeing me and his SO at the same time? Not sure that makes sense, but it has been a strategy I’ve tried a few years back with an LO, as Emeritus Limerent recalls. It definitely didn’t help, that’s for sure.
@Sarah
“I do not think that my LO is a narcissist or has any bad intent.”
Unless we all are narcissists for wanting someone to like us! The way your LO is keeping a professional distance indicates that it is not his intent to string you along, or get his supply or whatever. I would tend to take it as his form of strategic withdrawal – I mean, it is exactly as YOU are doing it after all.
Re the dinner … it could be complicated, and could have more than one reason at the same time. I have before put SO and LO in the same space to ensure that nothing ever happens between me and LO – I want my SO’s eyes on my relationship with LO. In a group setting, especially a group that sees both myself and LO, it is added insurance that others keep us from being inappropriate when we are together. So, these two techniques are about lessening secrecy and bringing interactions more “to the light” as it were, or setting a baseline of what “should” be – as far as possible, without actually explicitly saying anything or disclosing anything for sure. It could be an element of reminding LO (and myself) that SO is not some abstract concept or barrier but a real live person, with feelings, and actually exists (based on what you said, because your LO seemed more willing than you, I don’t think it is the case here). It could be what you intially wondered, about wanting to flaunt SO in your face (I have never had such an intent myself, but I don’t know your LO). Whether these are good techniques to help cool the limerence will depend case to case.
In addition, your case, since he is the boss and you are about to be promoted, he might even feel it would be unfair to rob you of the recognition he would have given any employee, just because you guys had an unfortunate interaction – he might be just trying to do what he would have for any employee, out of a sense of fairness.
Thanks for your thoughts and your assessment, Limmy. Sounds all very reasonable and rational.
And you’ve said it well, it was “one unfortunate encounter” and that had such an impact on me. Sometimes that’s hard to believe…
@Sarah
It only takes one earthquake …
“What were other people’s triggers?”
I am only just starting to understand why I found LO attractive, or more attractive than other people in my life at the time, and why I fell…
(1) I think he just had the right “look”. I dunno, maybe my whole life I’d been carrying around a picture in my head of the “perfect dream man” and one day I just happened to meet someone who looked just right, or close enough to my fantasy. So, yes, I agree with Dr. L’s theory about one’s LO archetype being one’s anima (or animus possibly, in the case of straight women and gay men?).
(2) My LO flirted outrageously with every female in sight. So he was a “player” I guess. He knew that he was very, very attractive physically, almost irresistible to the opposite sex. He was the kind of male that other straight males dislike and/or avoid on principle. (His effortless success with the opposite sex aroused much envy from his male peers and much jealousy amongst the females). 😜
However, he never flirted directly or overtly with me as a fellow male. What did he do then to get my attention? He invaded my personal space at a time when most of our male peers were almost theatrically homophobic. He cracked some sarcastic jokes, with me as the intended audience, which I found delightful. (Humour might be a trigger for me). He stared at me with those wonderful bedroom eyes of his i.e. prolonged eye contact. Mind you, he stared at literally everyone with those wonderful bedroom eyes of his…
So, no flirting officially, but a lot of almost-boundary violations, the kind of boundary violations straight males shouldn’t be doing with other males, as it could be seen as inappropriate or just plain weird. Did he want admiration? Um, yes, no. What else could he possibly want? He has only ever been romantically linked to women. 🤔
(3) Prior to limerence, on the surface, I was very happy and content with my life. However, if I look deeper, I probably also felt lonely, isolated from peers, and frustrated that my under-developed social skills weren’t getting me the kind of strong platonic friendships I would have liked. I wasn’t bonding with the other males in my life, in other words. My social isolation made me very vulnerable to LO’s occasional mystifying shows of apparent interest. It was like he was drawing me out of my shell because he saw somebody worthwhile. (That’s the ego boost in the infatuation for me right there). 😉
(4) He awakened deep feelings in me. I found these emotions really pleasurable to have. And I guess any “storytelling” about a potential relationship would have sprung out of the deep feelings I was experiencing inside myself. In other words, the feelings came first and the storytelling came shortly after. As a child and teenager, I often told myself stories as a form of self-soothing and escapism.
(5) I wasn’t aware what limerence was and wasn’t looking for any red flags. I started experiencing awful symptoms as time went on e.g. brutal mood swings, outright depression, anxiety, insomnia, but I never linked any of these symptoms to my crush on someone unavailable. In fact, I blamed my mood swings on family members and/or life circumstances. (School wasn’t stimulating enough for a kid with my intelligence, etc). I felt as if the whole world misunderstood me, and I certainly didn’t understand myself.
I can see now that my LO was probably narcissistic to some degree. However, I am still to blame for putting him on a pedestal and “reading into things”. I have to take responsibility for my part in the toxic “dance”. My LO never did anything I could definitely call flirting, so technically he’s in the clear of all moral wrongdoing. It seems to be very much my fault that I unconsciously fancied him… And he was never interested in me aside from the odd hit of validation, which he certainly got. He charmed me, for sure. 😉
To this day, I am very wary in my friendships with validation-seeking straight men, because I realise I’m not a very good judge of the difference between “close” and “too close”. On the one hand, I don’t want to make anyone uncomfortable. On the other hand, I don’t want to go through the hurt again of being “rejected” by someone I wasn’t even dating. (It felt like a death in the family).
Hearing your stories, a crucial point appears to be that LO felt something for us, or to be more accurate, that we felt LO felt something for us. In Ryan’s case, until he got the feeling that his LO was attracted to him she was just an ordinary attractive woman. In Sarah’s case that her LOs found her interesting and non-stereotypical. In my case that my LO made me feel beautiful and desirable … it really is about our egos, right? Somehow our LOs made each of us feel that maybe we are special. I remember looking at myself in the mirror in the midst of the LO in wonderment: somehow there was something about *me* that made LO look like he wanted to devour me, lean right in to hear every word that dropped from my lips, and that he actually teared up when I was talking about my SO, and stared at me so miserably. He *didn’t* have to like me, he just did, and in fact, probably did even if he didn’t want to. Heady stuff.
And when LO starts pulling away, it is the loss of that makes our egos doth protest too much.
“midst of the LO” should read “midst of the LE”
In retrospect, the most interesting thing about me was probably that I was showing interest in him, and *I* was stoking *his* ego! You really need to have a sense of humor about this.
I wonder – and this is just a thought – if we can fulfil what we are “getting” from our LOs, we can start to detach?
For example, if Ryan accepts that he is an attractive man that women would flirt with; Sarah that she is unusual and interesting to catch the eye of interesting men; and I that I am a beautiful and desirable woman to a very good-looking guy (no bias here, obviously!) We are using our LOs to validate these perceptions of ourselves, but what if we can really see ourselves in that light, accept it wholeheartedly as a truth (and not need LO to prove it)?
I wonder about this, because even as I detach from LO, I now no longer see myself as a frumpy middle-aged person, but someone attractive and intriguing. My energy is different, my attitude towards my SO is different (and his response different). My LO helped me see it again, but it really *is* a part of me, always has been, I had just forgotten it. And I see it again. I know Ryan mentioned elsewhere that he’d lost weight and improved his life so much, and Sarah you are so thoughtful … I mean, it doesn’t take an LO for us to accept surely that we are attractive and interesting people, worthy of attention, attraction?
Small correction, I found THEM unstereotypical which surprised me and caught my initial attention, however, that was not the glimmer. I guess maybe just a pre-step, that made them a little bit interesting for me in the sense of “there is more to this person than what they pretend to be by their clothes, vibes, whatever” I.e., my boss looks like a typical person in our line of profession and as such is not something I am attracted to. But the fact that there might be more to what he shows to be makes him interesting.
You have some excellent points, Limmy, they all make us feel special and your suggestion, that we should start to see ourselves this way would probably help. I too have lost weight (not intentionally) and my SO has complimented me on that.
I do wonder what LO sees in me and obviously I want them to keep that impression. But given that I can’t put my finger on it and they also don’t tell me exactly, I am not sure what it is, but I want them to keep that impression. Seems similar to what you were thinking, Limmy.
I guess if they pull back a little, we stop getting that validation and wonder if it is still the case that they like us or not and that’s when we start to think what we should/could do to get it back.
This for sure! When I first met LO #2, I liked her and though she was fun. I thought she was fairly attractive too, but she wasn’t on my radar at all. It’s only once she started flirting with me that I started paying attention (within a short period of time she made a joke about me stripping, she dragged me up to dance and was pointedly looking me up and down with a huge smile on her face and staring into my eyes, and she made a sultry comment about her body when we were alone). It was only once I thought she was into me that I became interested in her. In many ways, she really isn’t my type, but once I thought she liked me it was game over. I was hooked. As Dr. L once said, there’s no more powerful an aphrodisiac than the thought that someone might fancy you. After this experience, I have slowly begun to realize that women especially will sometimes flirt with men they aren’t THAT into. I don’t think my LO found me repulsive or anything, but I know I’m not her type, and I hardly think she ever lusted after me. I think it was mainly about validation and stroking her own ego more than anything. Let’s face it, we all like to feel wanted and attractive.
So, I wanted to give a quick update, as dinner at LO’s happened…
I met LO’s SO and daughter, and I have to say, they are absolutely lovely… and totally “normal”. For some reason I thought LO’s SO must be this perfect, intelligent, smart woman, because who else would be good enough for LO?! I’ve put LO on this pedestal of being this smart, super intelligent, handsome, young (he’s a few years younger than I am), successful overachiever and I thought his SO must be the mirror image. But no, his SO ist just a lovely normal human being. I think that makes my LO a bit less perfect and a bit more human in my eyes as well.
But one thing is for sure, this dinner opened my eyes that I certainly do not want to get between them. I am no home wrecker, and LO is not perfect.
I feel a bit sad though, I am not even sure why. I still like LO, that hasn’t changed from one minute to the other, but it has changed my picture of LO a bit. Less perfect, more “normal”. I am not sure where I go from here. Of course, I continue to be professional with him. I just hope this now helps me to reduce his “LO-hold” on me. I don’t want to think about him anymore. I don’t want him to be my LO.
As I have wondered before what his motivation was to organize this dinner at his place and to have me meet his SO, I wonder if it now had the effect he hoped for as well.
They just seemed good together, I really don’t know what he was thinking jeopardizing this that night. Was he just drunk? I am so glad I held against it that night and nothing happened I (or he) regretted.
@Sarah,
It sounds like the evening went pretty well. The only thing I saw in your post that’s concerning is:
“As I have wondered before what his motivation was to organize this dinner at his place and to have me meet his SO, I wonder if it now had the effect he hoped for as well.”
Those kind of thoughts will kill you when it comes to getting out of an LE. Why he does anything shouldn’t matter. When it doesn’t, you’ll know that you’ve taken a big step. It’s a trap.
Hey Sarah, thanks for the update on the dinner. It sounds like it went normally but gave you some food for thought and mental adjustment.
“I feel a bit sad though, I am not even sure why.”
I feel ya. I really do. I have felt sad at some points too … sort of an empty feeling of What now? And I think when the answer is clearly, Nothing … just nothing, it really is kind of sad. One of my favorite posts by Dr L called ‘False Love’ talks of the LE being “infertile” which I thought was the perfect way to describe the tragedy and pathos of limerence. Just all that promise faced with the fact of impotence, infertility, disillusionment, and unfulfilled (seeming) potential. It’s a tragedy of emotion.
Give yourself some grace, and I would say, let yourself mourn. It is not the most comfortable feeling (and the temptation to ditch it and backpedal to happier limerence moments is so great), but I think that loops us back, whereas if we move through this natural phase of grief it will help us let go.
@LE: yes, you are right, it is concerning, I see your point.
@Limmy: I should be grieving, and saying goodbye, yes. My stupid mind hasn’t gotten the message though. Why is it so damn hard not to fall back to the fantasy dreaming…
When you love someone
Who doesn’t love you
Only so much you
Can do
Don’t harass
Your own personal
Dopamine Queen
Don’t humiliate yourself
Begging for scraps
You have to hope
Love will weaken
And crack and fade
Because no love was made
Some hope
More communication
More time spent
More is known
The love eclipses common sense
Does a man change
His life
His mind
His own story
Or become a fool in a cloying
Country and western song
Put another dime in the machine
And play Dopamine Queen
One more time
While I turn
To sawdust
On the floor.
I like it!
I was the Poet Laureate of LwL but that was only because I was the only one writing any: https://livingwithlimerence.com/limerence-music/#comment-1538
We can add best original story, poem or song to the LwL Awards category.
I found this site out of desperation, after searching relentlessly for something to explain the four LEs I’ve experienced in my 52 years on the planet.
As many have noted, Dr. L could have been directly chronicling almost every aspect of my LEs, the first of which began when I was only 14, and lasted nine years.
LO #4 (a former, very casual acquaintance) recently dropped into my life at a time of extreme stress for both my SO and me. I had gone 13 years without experiencing any Limerance, and I thought it was behind me, even though I didn’t *quite* know how to define it. I certainly knew it when I felt it.
This time, with LO #4, I had an “oh shit” moment when I felt the old familiar pangs in my stomach and tightening in my chest. From experience, I knew what was happening, but felt powerless to stop it.
The good news – I found out what Limerance was, got in with a good therapist ASAP, and am currently working through the complex childhood PTSD that appears to have been the origin of my LEs. More good news – each successive LE has been shorter in length of time, from nine years to three, two, and less than six months. I intuitively understood that NC was the only way to stop my LEs. Doesn’t make it any easier, or lessen the pain of withdrawal to know objectively what is happening, but what must be done must be done.
As someone astutely observed in another comment thread, the cost/benefit analysis almost always tips toward a steep incremental cost. The heart may want what the heart wants, but that sure doesn’t mean that it’s good for the rest of the body (and soul, for that matter).
> This time, with LO #4, I had an “oh shit” moment when I felt the old familiar pangs in my stomach and tightening in my chest. From experience, I knew what was happening, but felt powerless to stop it.
Sounds very familiar. My feelings for my 1st and so far only fully blown LE resurfaces when my relationship was in a bad state. I started researching on WTF was going in back then + right now, found LWL but was still not able to handle it at all when I met LO 2.
> The heart may want what the heart wants, but that sure doesn’t mean that it’s good for the rest of the body (and soul, for that matter).
It sucks so much to fight against what the heart desires. But it seems like it can be worth it. I’m glad my SO didn’t give up on me while I started to develop limerence for LO2. Luckily, it was starved off because she made it clear that she didn’t want any contact after disclosing to both SO and LO.