A question that commonly comes up after people discover the concept of limerence is: can I have the good without the bad?
The euphoria of early limerence is intoxicating, delirious, delightful. It is glorious, and life-affirming, and when focused on another available person who you can form a healthy pair-bond with, then I’m all for it.
The downsides of limerence come later, once the transition from reward to craving has occurred, and the initial promise of mutual bliss in a close pair bond has been thwarted in some way. The trouble and torment really starts once giddy hope has soured into person addiction.
Within this framework, limerence is an inherent trait that some of us just have built into our brains. We have reward circuits that go into hyperdrive when presented with the supernormal stimulus of a person who fits our limerence archetype. Whether or not this romantic impulse transforms into addiction depends on a number of factors, but perhaps the key cause is uncertainty.
There are many psychological reasons why uncertainty is a powerful reinforcing mechanism for limerence. One important consequence of uncertainty is that it can lead people with a generally cautious temperament into indecision. Unfortunately, that can be a very bad development, as indecision worsens almost every stage of the progression of limerence.
This insight helps to illustrate why decisiveness is one of the key elements of purposeful living. Having a clear vision of who you want to be, and what you want your life to be like, helps to quickly reduce indecision about relationships. Cultivating a tolerance for change, combined with thoughtful decision making, eliminates many of the drivers that deepen limerence.
Let’s work through the issues.
1. Clouding your feelings
Indecision causes trouble right from the start. When they first feel the glimmer for someone new, many people instinctively try to obscure the significance of their feelings from themselves and others.
For single limerents, this might manifest as excessive caution. They might be anxious about moving too quickly, choosing instead to bide their time and scope out the situation. Now, obviously, a certain amount of caution is prudent until you actually do get to know your LO and their situation – I’m not advocating blurting out your emotional excitement at first sight – but waiting too long can be just as counterproductive as moving too quickly. It’s a delicate dance. People differ over how much trust and familiarity they need to feel before they warm up to romantic interest, and you have to intuit that from getting to know them. It’s tough.
There is a helpful clarifying factor though, and that’s honesty. If you know you are interested in them romantically, then you need to be clear on that in your mind as you get to know them. At some point you intend to declare your feelings, or withdraw fully once you learn they are unsuitable or unavailable.
Caution is not the same as concealment. If you try to develop a facade of platonic friendship to cover the churning cauldron of limerent desire within you, it’s likely you will end up in the friendzone as a consequence. It’s incredibly unlikely that you will slowly win them over with a long game of a complicated friendship, punctuated by occasional episodes of uncomfortable boundary-crossing.
For married limerents, indecision in the early stages instead manifests as bargaining and rationalisation. You might feel the glimmer for this exciting new person, but you don’t intend to do anything so it’s fine to get to know them better. OK, maybe you might keep flirting a bit, just to find out whether maybe you could do something if the opportunity arose, but you wouldn’t go too far. Yes, it might be risky to fantasise about someone else and seek out a bit of euphoria supply, but you can handle it responsibly. You should probably avoid them, but where’s the real harm in dallying in a bit of cheeky banter to add some spice to life?
Again, the lack of honesty about what your feelings are and what they mean for how you should engage with a new limerent object is the root of the indecision. You know what you should do, intellectually, but wilfully cloud the situation to keep from acting accordingly.
2. Rumination
The second point at which indecision becomes a problem is once you are properly hooked on LO and they are occupying most of your waking thoughts. Limerent rumination is seductive. It’s pleasurable to relive good encounters with LO, plan for future opportunities to delight and impress them, and daydream about fantasy futures. Unfortunately, it also often delays you taking action.
Constantly, thinking, scheming, reviewing and fantasising about LO keeps them central in your mind, and reinforces limerent obsession. This habit also leads you to construct an imaginary version of LO, who may or may not resemble the real, actual person. This can be problematic when LO refuses to behave in the way you expect, based on how your fantasy version of them behaved in your internal world.
That can be unsettling, and worsen indecision. The insecurity of not wanting to do or say something that would make them think badly of you, coupled with the relief of anxiety that a pleasant fantasy offers, means you delay decisive action to resolve your uncertainty indefinitely.
Better to keep the fantasy hope alive than to take action in the real world and spoil it.
3. Compounding uncertainty
Oftentimes, limerence-amplifying uncertainty can be caused by a flaky LO. If they are indecisive, it generates uncertainty for you, because you spend so much time and energy trying to divine their true feelings from the mess of mixed messages they’ve given you.
If you are similarly indecisive, clear communication becomes almost impossible. By not being direct and clear in your own communications, you are likely to be even more frustrated in trying to discern theirs. If you use hints and winks and subtlety to try and reveal your interest in a slantwise way that preserves pride and deniability, and they respond in an unpredictable way, you don’t know if your failure to clearly telegraph your interest was the problem or their response to your overture was the problem.
Two people tiptoeing around the direct message that needs to be sent compounds uncertainty and worsens limerence.
4. Limerent languishing
Perhaps the worst time for indecision is when the limerence has progressed to a phase of prolonged inaction. At this point, limerents can become trapped in an existential crisis. They start questioning everything, doubting old certainties, doubting their life choices, doubting their sanity.
What do you really believe about love and life? Why can you not find satisfaction? How can you be trapped in a state of unrelenting desire and craving when you aren’t even getting much pleasure from the situation anymore? You’re emotionally tethered to LO, but in limbo about the status of your relationship.
This period of limerent languishing can seriously jeopardise existing relationships. Not only is the indecision about who you want to be with obviously destructive, the typical behaviour of an addict starts to creep in – lying about what you are doing, feeling and thinking; seeking clandestine meetings; rationalising your disloyalty and weakness. You construct your own personal hell.
The length of time spent in this state of misery is determined by how long it takes you to make a decision and take action.
5. Erosion of confidence
Indecision is born out of fear. We don’t typically dither because we haven’t got enough information, haven’t spent enough time analysing the situation, or haven’t gathered the resources needed for action. We dither because we fear that we’ll make the wrong choice, regret our decision, and wish we could go back in time and undo it. Indecision means keeping our options open, rather than burning bridges.
Making a decision means closing doors and losing opportunities. Once you make a purposeful decision and take action, the comforting illusion of limerent fantasy is impossible. For limerents who use rumination for mood regulation that is a painful loss. It snuffs out the last vestiges of hope.
Thinking in this (very human and natural) way, is actually an error of reasoning. Indecision is not really open-mindedness; it’s delay. Remain indecisive for long enough and events tend to decide the issue for you, one way or another.
Failure to decide erodes self-confidence. You subconsciously train yourself into the belief that you are not empowered to decide, you are not confident in your choices, you lack willpower, you aren’t in charge of yourself, you are too fearful to take a leap of faith.
You may not realise it, but all the while that you languish in inaction, your self-esteem will be ebbing away.
6. Loss of direction
Finally, the broadest outcome of indecision is a loss of direction in life, generally. When we are unhappy with our situation, but fear that a change may be worse than the status quo, we can end up in a state of paralysis.
How do you decide what action to take when every option seems unappealing? If you are married but infatuated with someone else, then do you confront how you have harmed your relationship, jump ship and destroy your integrity, or slowly sicken inside as you are torn between conflicting desires?
If you are trapped in an unhappy marriage, but committed with responsibilities to children, do you surrender your own happiness or disrupt family harmony?
Difficult decisions put off for too long can mean you sleepwalk into a state of no longer knowing what you want [link]. That makes it very hard to take decisive action.
The power of choice
All these sources of frustration and despair stem from indecision. Fortunately, there is a remedy, and it’s made clear by a classic psychological question: what would your life be like in 5 years if you carry on as you are?
If you want your life to change for the better, you will have to do something differently. You have to make a decision and find out the consequences.
The trick, of course, is to make good decisions, and the best way to improve your odds of choosing well is to work on the other elements of purposeful living: honesty, self-awareness, openness to renewal and the courage to take action. Once you understand yourself better, have a vision of what sort of life you want to be living, and can be honest with yourself about your true nature and accept it, the best decision quickly becomes clear.
If you want to be a good husband and father and succeed in your career, you obviously need to reduce contact with the flirty younger woman at work. If you want to be an artist but your husband is unsupportive and cynical, you are going to have to have a decisive talk about it and find a space where you can create in peace and freedom. If you want to make money, you are going to have to prioritise building valuable skills and learning about sales and marketing instead of browsing YouTube for get rich quick schemes. If you want a simpler life, you are going to have to think carefully about where you live and what you can do without.
You’ll make decisions that don’t work out as you’d hoped. Guaranteed. But, if you want to move your life forward you are going to have to make decisions, make changes, take positive action, and learn from the outcome.
It definitely beats praying for Providence to save you.
Thanks for the post Dr L.
“ If you want your life to change for the better, you will have to do something differently. You have to make a decision and find out the consequences.” Dr. L
Yes! We have to make a DECISION, for our own sakes and sanity! No one can make a decision for you, it’s got to be your decision.
Quote for today:
I choose…
“To live by choice, not by chance. To make changes, not excuses; to be motivated, not manipulated; to be useful, not used; to excel, not to compete; I choose self-esteem, not self pity. I choose to listen to my inner voice, not the random opinions of others.”
And:
“ I’ve fallen, cried, been angry and afraid. But, even when I was hurting, I always found a way to keep going. A strong 💪🏽 person never gives up.”
Hope everyone the strength to make the necessary decision that will ultimately move them from limbo and lead to a more positive peaceful life.
Have a beautiful weekend.
The content in this article is a spot on. I can especially identify with the part on languishing and my own, personal, home sweet hell. I read stuff like this and it amazes me how pathetic limerence has taken a hold and trapped me within its web. So much of this is like reading an entire litany of all the stages I’ve been going through with LO, and I just accept it now as normal. Dear God, Why???
“ By not being direct and clear in your own communications, you are likely to be even more frustrated in trying to discern theirs. If you use hints and winks and subtlety to try and reveal your interest in a slantwise way that preserves pride and deniability, and they respond in an unpredictable way, you don’t know if your failure to clearly telegraph your interest was the problem or their response to your overture was the problem.”
This! 👆
This was my problem with LO but also my problem AS an LO. I think if you haven’t been an LO, you might not know how stuck you can feel addressing those flirtations. It’s not so much that I’m ‘flaky’ and indecisive but more the other person has that deniability so it’s hard to address whether I reciprocate or not. All the risk is placed on the LO when the limerent fails to communicate clearly.
Yes Cordelia! I choose these part of the post too.
“By not being direct and clear in your communication….etc. you don’t know if your failure to clearly telegraph your interest was the problem or their response to your overture was the problem.” This also goes for everything in any relationship.
I get tongue tied when talking with LO and keep silent, don’t follow up on what he says and reflect on it only after I’m alone. And it created our breakup when we were both single, half a century ago! Still the same…It only happens with him and I don’t know why is that? It’s a problem in communication.
Communication is very important in any relationship, very important.
I found this website which can be helpful for others:
“SKILLS YOU NEED.”Com
(Various topics included)
Effective Listening
Personal romantic relationships and many others.
To all limerents, have a great week !
Yes, Cordelia, I choose the same part of the post:
“By not being direct and clear in your communication, you are likely to be even more frustrated on trying to discern theirs etc… you don’t know if your failure to clearly telegraph your interest was the problem or their response to your overture was the problem…”
This is true of any kind of communication.
That was my problem with LO also. I get tongue-tied when lo
speaks , I keep silent and react and reflect on what was said only after when I’m by myself. Too late. That was the cause of our breakup, when we were single, a half century ago! Lack of communication ! It only happens with him, I can’t believe myself and why am that way with him? My mind goes blank and wish he could read my mind. It’s a big problem.
Communication is very, very important in a relationship. Misunderstandings occur frequently because of that.
There’s a website on communication skills:
www. Communication skills/skills you need. com
It covers many topics such as Personal and romantic relationships skills, effective listening, clarifying and clarification,etc. etc.
Have a great week.
Thanks, Nisor. I’ll have a look at the website. I love the quote
‘the single biggest problem in communication is the illusion it has taken place’
George Bernard Shaw
I was still getting smoke signals via LO’s public social media posts right up until earlier this year when I wrote to him and told him I’d blocked him. I used another account to look at his page and saw he’d stopped posting the smoke signals after I sent that. I think he was enjoying the thought I was still looking 😕 The things we do when limerent, eh?
Oh yes, right with you MJ. This latest post is a textbook of my LE. I live with it in my head ALL the time, sometimes it’s background noise, sometimes it’s way up front. He’s never not there. Working hard on making travel plans, career plans etc. I don’t actually have any desire whatsoever to do anything without my LO, but will plan nonetheless and hope I can scrape some enjoyment out of it all. This thing is nuts.
“You know what you should do, intellectually, but wilfully cloud the situation to keep from acting accordingly.” – my rational brain feels like a very timid child who sits at the back of the class and doesn’t dare put their hand up when the careless, loud, risk-taking and pleasure-seeking child-brain stomps all over their attempts to speak.
May have taken the metaphor a bit far then…
My ability to make any kind of decision has always been very poor. It’s got worse over time, to the point where I agonise over even the smallest choices. I get totally overwhelmed if I have to buy something online for example, reading all the reviews and spend so long and get so stressed that I just give up. So a big decision like moving forward out of limerence is always one that I haven’t dared or known how to make. It’s always been made for me, by a narcissist LO rejecting or hurting me, by letting a situation get so bad that there doesn’t seem any choice other than to leave the relationship, by time and circumstances forcing the LE to gradually, and very slowly and painfully, dissipate.
I’m hoping therapy will help me in this area of my life and that will trickle down to help me cope with limerence in the future and stop it before it gets to the horrible, pain-filled state I’m in at the moment.
MJ – ” Dear God, Why?”. Ditto.
I don’t think limerents want to make a decision. I know it took me forever to make one. I had all the information in front of me to make one. Because the best decision for most limerents (as it was for me) is more than likely going to be to pull the plug, but most limerents want to keep the LO in their lives. If the limerent is married or has a partner, the only ethical decision is to to NC. Or as LC as possible if they absolutely cannot avoid seeing them.
And if both the limerent and the LO are available, the limerent may have a shot. But it’s no greater chance than any other dating experience simply because stronger feels are involved on the limerent’s part.
Thank you Marcia, that has helped me make a decision about whether to go to a BBQ tomorrow where I would see LO (and wife) for the first time since the audition failure/horrible flirting with someone else kick in the heart. I couldn’t decide if I should avoid any further possible pain but then I thought maybe if I went it might get rid of some of the resentment that is eating at me for both LO behaviour and audition, so it doesn’t continue to do that for the next few months. I asked my SO what he wanted and he said it might be a bit awkward but he didn’t really mind.
But I have to admit to myself now that I desperately want some sort of answer from LO on how he feels, but that I won’t get that, will probably end up feeling worse, it will be awkward and the best thing for me, however much I want to see LO, is to spend a nice day with SO.
Decision made. Feeling so sad but I will keep working.
C for Cat,
“But I have to admit to myself now that I desperately want some sort of answer from LO on how he feels, but that I won’t get that, will probably end up feeling worse, ”
Sorry to hear about the auditions.
Yes, I’m afraid that an LO who has set a pattern for being obtuse usually doesn’t become transparent.
He was very transparent at the beginning and I felt secure that I knew how he felt. I was coping OK with that, and we decided to stop getting any closer and concentrate on our SO relationships. But then it all just seemed to switch off for him and now I have no idea what was real and how he feels now. But without that I don’t think I would have hit such an awful low that I disclosed to SO and maybe I would never have been able to escape and would have ended up destroying my real relationship. I’m trying to think as if he’s rejected me but there is an evil little shred of hope still there that it wasn’t all fake and I was special to him. Even for a little bit of time.
C for Cat,
“He was very transparent at the beginning and I felt secure that I knew how he felt. ”
So he disclosed? What did he say? You may have posted this before. Sorry. I don’t read all the posts.
“I was coping OK with that, and we decided to stop getting any closer and concentrate on our SO relationships.”
What did he say when you had that conversation?
He said he’d fallen for me, it hadn’t happened to him before and he felt like a b*****d re his wife so we had to ‘be good’ and stop with the eye contact etc so that we could keep doing plays together without it causing real problems and destroying our relationships. He said he kept vowing to stop but when he saw me that all went out of the window. That it had made him question what he wanted and that I definitely shouldn’t feel he didn’t want me if he pulled away. I just remembered that bit actually.
I think I could have coped with that, we were doing well and I was feeling quite cheerful and we didn’t have any opportunity to be anything but friends anyway. But then I saw how he and this girl were during the play week, and especially how he couldn’t stop touching her at the pub after the auditions and it really hurt and messed with my head. I started questioning what was real and my own worth, and that’s what (along with not getting the part) pushed me into the little breakdown I had the next day when I disclosed to SO.
C for Cat,
“He said he’d fallen for me, it hadn’t happened to him before and he felt like a b*****d re his wife”
Hadn’t fallen for anyone or during a play? I might have questioned if it was for anyone.
“But then I saw how he and this girl were during the play week, and especially how he couldn’t stop touching her at the pub after the auditions and it really hurt and messed with my head.”
Yeah, that would ahve been really rough to see. Is he a flirtatious person?
” I started questioning what was real and my own worth”
It’s easy for me to say this. I’m not limerent for the guy, but he’s one person. Us limerents have a tendency to make our LOs in to the next Mozart or something, and they’re just aren’t. They’re just people.
“I had the next day when I disclosed to SO.”
Personally, I think it’s good to disclose to an SO, depending on whether you honestly feel they’d want to know. I’d want to know.
Ah, Marcia, if only our LOs were just people. If they were, they wouldn’t be LOs.
A tribute to LOs everywhere:
“Eyesight to the Blind” – The Who (1969)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnphS-2uG9I
Not my favorite song from “Tommy.” My favorite is “Go to the Mirror.” It makes me think of LO #2. You just have to change the genders.
“What is happening in his (her) head
Ooooh I wish I knew, I wish I knew…”
Ah, Marcia, if only our LOs were just people. If they were, they wouldn’t be LOs.
A tribute to LOs everywhere:
“Eyesight to the Blind” – The Who (1969)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnphS-2uG9I
Not my favorite song from “Tommy.” My favorite is “Go to the Mirror.” It makes me think of LO #2. You just have to change the genders.
“What is happening in his (her) head
Ooooh I wish I knew, I wish I knew…”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGH3U5GtmOQ
“Ah, Marcia, if only our LOs were just people. If they were, they wouldn’t be LOs.”
I love that LE, it is so true!!
LE,
“Ah, Marcia, if only our LOs were just people. If they were, they wouldn’t be LOs.”
But they are. They’re just people. I haven’t had one LO who’s been extraordinary. No Picassos or Mozarts in the bunch.
“But they are. They’re just people. I haven’t had one LO who’s been extraordinary. No Picassos or Mozarts in the bunch.”
@Marcia.
I think even a Picasso or a Mozart would be ordinary if you had to live with them on a permanent basis, or work with them in a confined space. I mean, scrambled eggs are scrambled eggs. The scrambled eggs that rich people eat can’t be that different from the scrambled eggs poor people eat. How fancy can the chicken that laid the eggs in the first place possibly be? It’s all just protein at the end of the day, maybe with a few extra herbs and spices thrown in.
I’ve always felt upset when classmates said they envied me for some real or perceived talent, because I always felt the praise was unearned and the talent was overestimated. Worse, I felt the classmate didn’t see the real me, or my desire to be loved simply for existing as the very uninteresting bunny rabbit I am. I don’t want to be loved because I induce thrilling emotions in another. 🙄
The limerence high does feel incredible. I think if two people feel that high and get married and have babies, and are wrapped up in that high while all this bonding is taking place, well, that’s great. That’s somewhat normal. I have no problem with that. But people also should be informed that the bubble bursts eventually, and emotion inevitably wanes. Human life isn’t meant to be iridescent.
I’ve been researching how long a number of romantic writers lived, and many of them didn’t make it to forty. (Keats, Shelley, Byron, Charlotte Bronte, Emily Bronte). Even the very sensible Jane Austen passed away at 41. I think if Jane Austen lived another ten years, or if she had been a mother, she would have revised her depictions of human desire. I mean, Austen’s work did get less idealistic as time went on. Her heroines start making increasingly bland choices because these increasingly bland choices are the right choices. (More staid clergymen as husbands and fewer Mr Darcy types).
I think romantic authors could believe so whole-heartedly in their gooey visions of romance, for the most part, because they didn’t live long enough to reflect on the philosophy they were advocating. 🤔
Well said. We don’t want to make any decisions. We want to keep the fantasy and hope. We know what is best, but we don’t want to do what is best.
There seems to be some reprogramming needed in our minds. Different ways to see things. I don’t know what exactly. I just know that last week I was obsessed and hurt, and next thing I know I (subconsciously) let go and accepted that nothing will happen. And not just that but I am fine with nothing happening. I feel like my mind flipped the situation. I don’t want to be the one obsessing. If he isn’t, then why should I. And believe me, I have been saying that to myself all along, but it never worked. And then it worked and I think the only explanation is that there are bigger things that need my attention.
Song of the Blog: “Did You Ever Have To Make Up Your Mind” – Lovin’ Spoonful (1966)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WOo0gnOBwQ
Not the best fit and applies to attached limerents. But, it’s catchy and a lot of posters might relate to it.
For some reason, this song always reminds me of a girl that I only dated once back in college. Maybe it was playing and it got embedded in my head…
Wow, Dr. L! I think this is one of your best articles yet. Here are my thoughts:
“… can I have the good without the bad?”
Yes, I think everyone’s asked that at some point. I.e. can I have the feels without the suffering? Can I have the feels without ever bothering to ask what the feels might mean for everybody involved? Really, what the limerent is saying is that they’d like some more “free dopamine hits”, thank you very much – dopamine hits they don’t need to pay for down the line. 😉
“The euphoria of early limerence is intoxicating, delirious, delightful. It is glorious, and life-affirming, and when focused on another available person who you can form a healthy pair-bond with, then I’m all for it.”
Agreed. But, for me, personally, the positive stage didn’t seem to last very long. I think I plunged almost immediately into self-doubt, mood swings, feeling incredibly sad when I heard a love song on the radio, etc. I feel cheated out of a sufficiently long euphoric stage! I feel as if I got trapped in the quicksand before I even had a chance to ask myself what I might want from LO or from life itself. 😛
“The downsides of limerence come later, once the transition from reward to craving has occurred, and the initial promise of mutual bliss in a close pair bond has been thwarted in some way. The trouble and torment really starts once giddy hope has soured into person addiction.”
In other words, the “special relationship” isn’t progressing or getting any deeper because the “special relationship” in many cases is just a … strangely compelling fantasy? 🤔
“Indecision causes trouble right from the start. When they first feel the glimmer for someone new, many people instinctively try to obscure the significance of their feelings from themselves and others.”
I don’t know if people instinctively try to obscure the significance of their feelings – unless they’re married or already have a significant number of dating relationships under their belt. I think a lot of limerence comes about because of naivety on the part of the limerent. I.e. the limerent experiences these amazing feelings they’ve never experienced before, and they don’t know how to categorise these feelings, especially if the feelings don’t follow a conventional script. If one is limerent for a member of the same sex, for example, or if one’s limerence really does seem to be platonic in nature, then labelling one’s experience can be a trifle challenging…
“Caution is not the same as concealment. If you try to develop a facade of platonic friendship to cover the churning cauldron of limerent desire within you, it’s likely you will end up in the friendzone as a consequence. It’s incredibly unlikely that you will slowly win them over with a long game of a complicated friendship, punctuated by occasional episodes of uncomfortable boundary-crossing.”
I agree the friendship and desire don’t mix. Concealing romantic feelings from someone … oh gosh, why would anyone want to go through the stress of that? And yet this is precisely what limerents do to themselves time and again. 😆
“Perhaps the worst time for indecision is when the limerence has progressed to a phase of prolonged inaction. At this point, limerents can become trapped in an existential crisis. They start questioning everything, doubting old certainties, doubting their life choices, doubting their sanity.”
I don’t think being trapped in an existential crisis is necessarily a bad thing! 🙄 I mean, if limerence is one’s springboard to a lot of soul-searching about life, I think that’s great. However, I also recognise that a lot of people may not have the time or inclination for endless soul-searching. And even some ardent soul-searchers like yours truly might need strict limits put on the amount of soul-searching done.
I guess what I discovered from soul-searching was the exact same thing that Dorothy Tennov discovered – that not everybody in the world is a limerent, and it is misguided to demand that non-liemrents behave like limerents! In other words, logically, you can’t win a game if the other person isn’t playing with you, or even aware a glorious game of hidden longing and suppressed emotion is afoot!! 😁
“You’ll make decisions that don’t work out as you’d hoped. Guaranteed. But, if you want to move your life forward you are going to have to make decisions, make changes, take positive action, and learn from the outcome.”
The most valuable thing I’ve learnt from LwL and other sources regarding limerence is that limerence is about pair-bonding, and that’s why limerence is super-rewarding compared to other potential rewards one might encounter in life.
If a limerent wants to lead a purposeful life, then I think a limerent needs to frame most of the questions they ask around pair-bonding. E.g. do I want to pair-bond consciously and intentionally with my LO? Does my LO want to pair-bond with me? And are we both aware of the biological factors driving this desire to pair-bond, and also aware of the fact that the honeymoon phase isn’t going to last?
I think some troublesome LOs often want friendship and/or casual sex with limerents, but not pair-bonding. I think some well-intentioned but naive limerents may pretend that they’re perfectly content with proffered friendship and/or casual sex, when in reality they want so much more i.e. pair-bonding.
In conclusion, if a limerent doesn’t want to descend into a pit of rage and resentment regarding limerence, the limerent must be honest with themselves about the desire to pair-bond with LO. But I also think the hormonal mayhem caused by limerence can induce brain fog (in both sexes!) and make it hard to think clearly, so I understand too why limerents end up in Indecision Land. 😉
“I.e. the limerent experiences these amazing feelings they’ve never experienced before, and they don’t know how to categorise these feelings, especially if the feelings don’t follow a conventional script”
I think this is much of the reason my LE falls flat on its face. I’ve never been slightly close to feeling this way about anyone before. Not in such a must have, addictive type way. Pair that up with indecision and inaction and I end up with nothing. This then explains the existential crisis that comes about. Because I do question everything, question my own sanity and have very little hope things will always work out for the better.
Yes I do get it was my choice. I could have made a better one.
As a serial limerent I can only imagine what a world-erupting, confusing experience an LE at our age must be, MJ. Hugs to you (I haven’t forgotten about the coffeehouse, just struggling a bit atm but will join you there again soon).
And Sammy, interesting and wise points, as always. The stories we tell ourselves, eh?
C for Cat,
I left you a reply message in the need for courage blog. Figured you probably weren’t up for the coffeehouse right now..
Oh thank you, MJ x
This is absolutely spot on. When my attachment started, I thought they I could have it all. But as time has passed I realized that is not the case. My husband and I are starting therapy. The therapist asked “how invested you are in making your marriage work, in scale from 1-10?” And I couldn’t say 10. I said 8. But even that sounded indecisive.
But last week, I think I made a breakthrough. I seem to have convinced myself that it is ok to let go of the fantasy. I think I am finally convinced that whatever LO felt for me in our early encounters it’s now gone. Perhaps he had the senses to pull back and be there for his family. And I respect him for that. So my thought have been less intrusive and I feel more at peace with the situation. I can accept that we are just work friends and I am going to talk yo him like I talk to anyone else.
Another thing.. I kind have a health scare currently and it has put a lot of things in perspective. Suddenly this whole infatuation with a random man seems stupid, and the least of my worries.
I hope my health thing isn’t anything serious of course… but it goes to tell you, there are more important things in life and those are the time we realize that our SO is thee for us and they are the people we can rely on.
So I think I am on the road to recovery. Unless LO ends up saying something to pull me back and I really really hope he doesn’t. I know I am not completely over it, but I feel that I am close.
So glad to hear that, Lola. I hope you can continue your upward trajectory. I feel as if I’m on the same path so I hope I follow in your footsteps. Disclosing to SO showed me that he is the one who is always there for me, who knows me better than I know myself, who is the one I should be focusing on. Limerence still has its claws in me and I still feel a horrible, pointless and painful longing for LO, but I am going to start therapy too (on my own at first but maybe with SO down the line) and keep trying and hoping that it will fade and I will start to feel better.
Hi, Lola
You do speak wise words.
“I seem to have convinced myself that it is ok to let go of the fantasy.”
When you get to a dead end with the LE, there’s nothing else to do but reflect on the situation and see how seriously this thing can hurt you and other loved ones.
I’m in of the same thinking as you. And, really, we have to be grateful and be appreciative of our SOS, they are the ones, in the long run, that support and bear with us and our weaknesses.
I’m glad you’re on the road to recovery from the LE. Who needs it, anyway, just trouble and nothing more!
I hope and pray your health problem is just a false alarm to get back to “sanity”.
Courage, always courage. We can do it!!!
“LO refuses to behave in the way you expect, based on how your fantasy version of them behaved in your internal world.”
I don’t know what I expected on her last day on the job. Rephrase that; I know what I REALISTICALLY expected to happen. Nothing. What my limerent head wanted to happen was one of the vast scenarios I had created over the years of knowing LO of what happened if she left. And I had a lot of them. I guess I sat and watched a few too many General Hospital episodes with my wife lol
I knew that wasn’t going to happen. I wasn’t in a last ditch attempt going to convince her to stay. This ain’t some romantic comedy. No declarations. No “I knew it all along but you’re married”. Just more uncertainty fueled by a nothing more than a “goodbye Adam” and driving away.
Dammit! She’s gone! Now what? I know! Ruminate scenarios about if you ever get to see her again! Yeah! That will keep it going until I figure out where to go from here. What would I say to her? Where would we see each other? If my wife was with me would she like LO too? Could they be friends? Maybe we could all be friends?
Whereas in reality LO has for sure never given me the amount of thought I have given her. In all reality I am on the same checklist of most any other people that she has worked with over the years in her memory. And the worst thing about rumination; is that even if you pass through this stage to get to latter stages as you try to get through limerence, is that rumination can come back so easily. Once it’s set up in your head it’s like battling an insect infestation in your house. Just because you don’t seem them doesn’t mean that they aren’t there waiting for their opportunity.
Hell I caught myself doing it this weekend. Trying to occupy my time watching a Godzilla anime trilogy. What better way to keep LO out of your head than watching futuristic science fiction monster movie anime? Right? Oh yeah I forget it’s rated for adults so God help us if an adult movie can’t be made without some stupid romantic love triangle. Smh Back to the drawing board.
Adam, I needed to distract myself with a film on Saturday evening – I made a good (though painful) decision for me and SO and we had a day out at the seaside with the dog instead of going to a BBQ where LO and his wife would be there. But in the evening I crashed again. I told SO “no romantic comedies!” so we ended up watching BirdBox: Barcelona! haha! Definitely not a romantic comedy but did the trick for a while.
I watched that some months back. I think I liked it even better than the first one, though it has been some time since I have seen the first one. But I liked the plot twists and turns Barcelona! had compared to the first film. I’ve been watching a lot of aliens and science fiction movies here lately as they tend to help me detach from everyday human life and immerse myself in another world. Some times video games for me can help too.
Sounds like you got a nice day to spend with your husband. But I agree with you, limerence or no; no romantic comedies! 🙂 I’ll take any other kind of “chick flick” than romantic comedies. I’ll even watch one of the Twilight movies with her before romantic comedies.
“Whereas in reality LO has for sure never given me the amount of thought I have given her. In all reality I am on the same checklist of most any other people that she has worked with over the years in her memory. And the worst thing about rumination; is that even if you pass through this stage to get to latter stages as you try to get through limerence, is that rumination can come back so easily. Once it’s set up in your head it’s like battling an insect infestation in your house. Just because you don’t seem them doesn’t mean that they aren’t there waiting for their opportunity.”
Worded brilliantly Adam!! I feel like I am in this spot every day. The comparison of rumination to an insect infestation is soooo true. But I’m so stuck, I don’t even care if the Orkin Man comes to spray and misses a few spots..
MJ I hope you’re doing OK. How are things moving with your new therapist? Still cheering for you from the sidelines (even if I keep switching from team LO to team Limerent). Given my ADHD and being slightly on the spectrum I do feel like I house two completely different people within (maybe that’s why the internal family system makes so much sense to me). It’s probably also why I can often see most people’s point of view! I suppose I just wish you wouldn’t suffer for as long as I did. But I’m fully aware no amount of support or wise words could’ve shaken me from that when I was stuck in it. I hope family life starts going a bit better for you soon. My mum is terminally ill as well. So I get that bit, too. Sending care from the other side of the interwebs.
Sorry to hear about your mum, Cordelia.
@Cordelia,
Thank you Friend. I appreciate your support. Unfortunately, Dad took a fall and is back in the hospital again. So I’m tied up there at night now. Therapy hasn’t gotten off the ground yet because the place I decided on has like a team of like 50 Therapists in their network and wants to make sure I get paired up with the right one. Not only that, I requested the intake interview to be face to face and not virtual, so that takes longer. Everything is a process and it’s a pain but I’m not drowning. Just add it to the list of my letdowns. I’ll get there.
I’m thinking about transferring out of my department at work, over to the main operation. I realized recently I really can’t stand being there anymore without LO. All I do when I’m there is miss her and get weepy and it’s pathetic but the place just holds too much sentiment for me. I find myself looking for her in places I would see her and I remember what happened in those certain places, and it always gets me down. It isn’t helping me, so I’m considering making that move. I highly doubt LO will return anyway. She is in a much better place. And it’s not like I won’t know where she’s at. This is a very huge work environment and as of now, her job does not require her to be at the main operation, but it can always change if needed. My guess is she will probably follow her Manager, should he ever transfer out, and/or if she does switch up along with him.
Other than that, I’m holding it down. I’m sad a lot but I try to make time for myself.
At least trying not to stay so stuck. I know when I’ve had enough and lately I’ve had enough.
Thanks again for checking up on me and staying in touch. I view this entire LE very differently now since chatting it up with you.
You being an LO has been very helpful in how I believe my LO might very well feel about me. While I don’t think that’s very good, it really is my dumbass fault for not ever owning up to it. No wonder she can’t stand me. Because of course it would render her powerless. How could I be so blind?? Your logic makes complete sense.
Keep cheering me on because I think you’re actually helping me..
😉🤗💖
Btw, may I ask exactly where are you from anyway? Just curious.
Hint at me if you feel like that’s too personal a question. A thousand apologies in advance if necessary..
Thanks C 4 Cat 🤗
MJ
Sorry to hear about your dad 😢 I don’t see my
Mum much. She’s in care and has been for a long time. She doesn’t know what’s going on and it’s also hard for me to get there.
Well it’s good to hear you’ve got the ball rolling with the therapist. These things always take time.
And really, the actual ‘doing’ of the work is up to you, with or without the therapist so once you’re in, they’re basically a cheerleader, too 🎉 Albeit a very grounded one who doles out doses of reality 😎
Going on my spelling of ‘mum’ you can probably narrow it down. I’m pretty sure you have a good idea where I am…
Where are you? Posting a CBC link would suggest Canada but I thought your line of work would be more a US- based activity… How are my
powers of deduction working for me? 😅
I’m going to guess you’re an Aussie?? Your English is very good.
I am in the US, Midwest, Chicago area..
My English is poor, lol..
Haha well we speak the Queen’s (or King as she’s known now 😅) English here so at least I spell words properly 😁
I was thinking the other day that most people who post here write quite well. Even those who clearly don’t speak English as a first language! I feel a kind of slight pain when I see the overuse of apostrophes. I never correct others but I’m thinking it on the inside 😩
Call me Cordelia, hi
“But I’m aware NO AMOUNT of support or wise words could’ve shaken me from that when I was stuck in it.” ( The LE)
That’s the truth of it all! That altered mental state cannot be controlled at will, since you are as under a spell…you feel helpless and scared. It’s not that you’re stubborn or arrogant, it’s just like something has taken over your 🧠 brain. And you want to shake it off but you can’t. You’re at the mercy of this 👻 ghost! That’s why I feel empathy for MJ and Adam and all the others suffering from this evil thing. It’s evil because it’s such suffering and energy wasted on a thing that will not turn out good anyway. It’s incomprehensible how we cherish and crave for someone we can DEFINITELY not have at all! The sooner we understand that the better for us.
Just reflecting on the absurdity of it all. We fight it but it only brings us to our knees in humility. Perhaps to make us understand that we are helpless and need to seek God more intimately… He’s my refuge in times of deep sorrows. For there’s no medicine for the mind, or anything that can help the intelect while going through the fire of an LE.
Sorry to hear your mum is not well. May God give you the courage to bear with this and everything else.
Love you all, limerents of LwL.
Thank you, Nisor 🤗
I have had years to deal with it. It honestly feels like she’s already gone.
“It’s evil because it’s such suffering and energy wasted on a thing that will not turn out good anyway.”
That is addiction. Be it a person, alcohol, pot, caffeine, sugar, gambling, food, shopping, sex, vaping, adrenaline …. that first drink … dammit I can do better than this … that fourth drink; number five is going to be awesome!
I can do better. I am going to go into that building and I am going to treat her no different than anyone else. She is only a person. There is nothing magical about her. She’s just human.
*Smiles* “Good morning Adam, isn’t it a beautiful day out today?” *Green eyes sparkle* *Stammers* “Uhhh yeah it is a nice day …. umm so far. Uhhh hope it uhhh …. stays that way.” *Smiles* “Well at least you’re here to help.” Resolve shot down like a deer in headlights.
Sobriety is the enemy. How can being clear headed and thinking be as great as that drunken calm and serenity that is LO? Five drinks or two conversations in, that feeling …. it’s deceivingly calming. This bliss that overcomes you and makes you forget the cut off notice from the electric company. That tomorrow is only Tuesday. The grass needs to be cut. The high for tomorrow is 105F. Why think about that when you can stare down the headlights of limerence?
And you welcome that bliss. Every single time. And like It. You are sitting there watching and knowing this thing is evil yet the character is deceived by the outer appearance. Certainly this funny clown can’t be the root of all evil right? Dammit get away from It! It will eat your face off! And then you see the face of horror on the victim as the creature bears it’s teeth and it’s too late.
And then you are laying in bed and your spouse comes to you; what’s wrong? You reply; nothing. But they can see the scars the teeth of the evil that is limerence have left on your face. But they hesitate to ask how they got there because their deepest fears stop them from doing so.
“And you welcome that bliss. Every single time. And like It. You are sitting there watching and knowing this thing is evil yet the character is deceived by the outer appearance. Certainly this funny clown can’t be the root of all evil right?”
That’s sooooo crazy Adam but so freakin true. I’m taken in by the sight of LOs hair, the way it’s styled today, or her height, or how good she looks in jeans.. Knowing that when she turns around, I’m going to stare at the very definition of true beauty. And yet this very person causes me more sadness and depression than I have ever felt in my entire life. How can this be??
@Nisor,
Your words hit home. Like right in the gut home. Almost everything you mention there is my LE.
I always like to believe that with each new day, there is going to be that great breakthrough with LO and she will be willing to stop and talk. My problem is waiting for that right moment to initiate and lately, that time hasn’t come. I don’t see her enough and when I do, I’m put off by my crippling insecurities. Terrified of fumbling over my words or clamming up or being forgetful, because that’s already happened. That she’ll dirty look me or use choice words. She’s just a Woman and yet has that much power over me. I’m embarrassed to admit that but it’s honest.
It always feels like it’s such a possibility though because we are both single. Whether or not Dude is her SO, I’ll probably never know. I don’t really want to know. I just want her, and delusional thinking keeps the fire burning. Because nobody else even remotely looks as good as LO. My belief is still, It’s LO or nobody.
It sounds crazy, but could this somehow be something God is trying to tell me? Or that more intimate connection with God? I consider myself to have a pretty decent prayer-life but maybe not.
That’s why Dr L brilliantly named this blog LIVING WITH Limerence. It’s like a cancer growing inside me that can both go into remission and metastasize without warning. And just like this cancer growing inside me, the people I live with, my family, deals with the limerence too.
Out of nowhere, this weekend, I got a reminder that my wife deals with this as much as I do. I got reminded of behavior of mine that was a result of clouded judgement from limerence. For me it is an insidious thing that lives inside of me that I may never be free of. The best I can do is keep it under control. Silence it. And move on.
Hopefully yours will have a positive turn, because there can actually be a positive outcome for you with your LO. You have friends here that are routing for you to find happiness and hopefully a measure of freedom from your limerence.
Hi sorrowful limerents
Are all limerents feeling lonely and sad today? I think I know why… yes, you guessed right, ruminating again!
LOs have forgotten about us or are not loving us , either way, are we that easy to forget?
Song for today: “ Am I that easy to forget.” Engel berg Humperdinck sings.
Some one said: “we shouldn’t take life seriously, no one ever makes it out alive. “
So, let’s take our hearts tonight out to party 🎉 and rejoice a little…
Cheer up, this shall also pass.
Thanks Nisor. I’ve had a few dreams – I can try to stop rumination when I’m awake but not when I’m asleep! The weather in the UK at the moment doesn’t help either – rainy, cool and dull every day. I think I’d feel more able to see the positive side to things if the sun was out!
What you wrote today and here is very thought provoking. I believe limerence truly is a person addiction. It feels like love but it’s not. In my case for a while LO was an emotional support and someone who was like a cheerleader. I gave him support and was a cheerleader too. I’ve never met anyone that compliments others in such an over the top way. I was not special. He does it for everyone.
Today, he sent a group email out and it was so triggering to see his name and picture. When he was a coworker there was constant emails between us and for the first year after I quit there was a lot. And probably 80% initiated by me. Guess how much LO has reached out since I did an unofficial no contact a couple of months ago. Zero. That is sobering. I allowed myself to become emotionally dependent on him and it is taking years to work on releasing myself. I am writing here so I don’t relapse. It is going to get harder because he is very visible during the school year. I do have control over how much I reach out which should be not at all. I feel guilt and shame. I fight daily to not ruminate. It is a dead end road. I cling to the hope that if I keep resisting and working on my life and putting my energy into my SO this will get better. Does anyone else just want to have freedom from this? Is it possible? It’s beginning to look like I will always have to avoid LO. And if I stop reaching out that shouldn’t be too hard.
Comic of the Day: https://www.gocomics.com/rudypark/2023/08/08
Darrin Bell is also the creator of “Candorville.”
Hi, C for cat
Sunshine is good to lift up the mood, but, but, but not like where i am now, 42 degrees celcius for the last 16 days!
Like the Sahara desert 🌵 not even a fly around!!! Send some of that UK 🇬🇧 weather here, pls, will appreciate it very very much. Will send you cans of our sunshine .Looking forward to autumn leaves 🍁 falling by my window .
You take good care of yourself and have pleasant dreams.( not w/Lo though)
I would take 42 degrees at the moment. I would even take 22! Feels like autumn here already 😥
Unfortunately I had major LO dreams last night 😭
😓😢😭
By decree of the King of UK, it’s prohibited to have dreams w Los.
❤️
Post it in https://livingwithlimerence.com/limerence-dreams/
I often hit the snooze button and dream of LO in those minutes between alarms. Its part conscious and part unconscious fantasizing. I’m trying to stop ‘bathing’ in that and get up, get caffeine, get into the real world despite it being more scary and harsh and less sparkly. It’s not easy.
btw, Cheerleading CforCat and all limerents this week as seems tough week for many !
Same here! It so so hot! I am over it.
I read a lot of new and older posts lately and I start thinking, if so many intelligent people suffer from this kind of addiction or disease- because we treat it as such, right? Something to get rid of, burn off etc- maybe it’s something „normal“?
Maybe we are not wired to be attracted and love only one person our whole life, it‘s only that there is no viable way to live it out (is that English, not sure). I know, an old idea, but still.. maybe I‘m just sick of punishing myself all the time, and reading of you punishing and berating yourself all the time I ask myself if this is a good way to live, to think of oneself as sick and wrong all the time.
I mean, love is a beautiful thing, and feeling for a person, feeling alive at beautiful things. I know that leads down a dangerous road and won’t help.
Still it‘s somehow not sitting well with me, so many people forcing themselves, hating themselves for feelings etc….
Does anyone know what I mean?
I mean feelingS for a person and feeling alive ARE beautiful things…
Autocorrect
I agree with you to an extent. I don’t think people should berate themselves for it. But limerence can turn your life upside down. The lower productivity and the vilification of your SO are probably the worst aspects in my opinion. In my case, I didn’t really idealize LO. We were friends and I knew him very well. I also didn’t vilify SO. He was just an unkind person in general 😩
But my productivity was not great during the intense times.
Also, as an LO, limerence negatively affected me. It made me incredibly uncomfortable. Especially because in some cases, I knew I was being idealized and even I couldn’t live up to the fantasized version of myself 😅 Or they hated that I was unobtainable because I wasn’t interested in them so they worked harder and harder to get my attention. Just irritating and bordering on harassment.
As a limerent myself I know I hid it better than most except for the time I was drunk not long after we met and threw myself at LO 😳😓 Luckily he found it amusing and never let me live it down throughout our entire 18-year friendship. Yeah haha glad my limerence could be fodder for his amusement 😕
You must be wise not to idealize your LO and are so lucky to be able to maintain a friendship with LO for 18 years! I could only befriend with former LOs after my LE for them was gone for good (impossible to be rekindled in my case). Moreover, one LO could leave my mind completely only after a newer one suddenly pushed in. In between LEs even during a relatively content marriage, there was a low-degree depression or emptiness (totally ignorant I had CPTSD and its active symptoms).
My culture and my cPTSD never allowed me to express my instinctual glimmers to LOs (even after I drank a lot), which my limerent eyes would helplessly reveal and I just passively waited. Soon or later, most available ones would respond or reciprocate. However, I subconsciously and ignorantly idealized them for a surrogate parent or a rescuer (not a lover), which role, of course, neither of them could truly fulfill, even my ex-husband who really wanted and tried.
As I said in another room that others’ glimmer at me usually sent me to run for the hills, and I never gave them any uncertainty even for a day to slip into a LE. With all my effort and time, I was never able to cultivate a glimmer at another good limerent soul; but when I just wanted to befriend with them, they would stay away, making me sad. Can men and women never be good friends without LE?
Even clearly recognizing the current LO’s covert, subtle narc traits, deep inside me I still wish we could be friends. However, I agree with Dr L, that one with an active LE cannot befriend with LO, especially a manipulative Sensor.
Accepting my dilemma, exercising and meditating several times everyday to calm down my frequent neurological dysregulations is making me a little more at peace, instead of worrying excessively about what would happen two weeks later when the school reopens…
🧘♂️
@snowphoenix
It helped that we were on different continents. LO is in North America. I’m in Australia. We met when we were both living in a third country.
I think throwing myself at him was my undoing. I always felt that he was using me for the validation (although I know that was my insecurities getting at me). Even after we became good friends. We visited each other in our respective home countries. He put himself on the line more than I did but I sabotaged it every time. I’m pretty sure we were limerent for each other. Perhaps part of my brain could see the limerence for what it was even though I’d never heard of it until recently. I always knew he and I could not have been friends if we lived in the same city. When I was in a long-term relationship I never thought about LO as anything but a friend. I think I’m romantically lazy 😅 If I have someone, I’m not interested in seeking adoration from anyone else. That one person takes up so much of my energy I have nothing left for anyone else. I also systematically removed all male friends from my life as they, one by one, hit on me or made comments that I felt were inappropriate for friends.
My brain is wired differently from most people’s so I think even my LE was different from most people’s. It fit most of the limerent description but I am pretty confident if I saw LO now I’d be fine with it. No limerence. Just a love that is quite pure and thankful for everything the LE taught me.
@Cordelia
Now I understand. Yes, a long-distance makes it easier to keep a platonic friendship, which I value and have maintained several for years since middle school. However, they were not from the glimmer; they wished and tried more but I was unable to give.
Adoration? Even alone for years, I never sought it nor reciprocated it “properly”, unless my glimmer set in first. When younger, I mostly “ran to the hills” from adoration or the glimmer — they were “unsafe” to cPTSD eyes; a sincere, loyal friendship is fulfilling in its own “safer” ways.
I wish I can better handle next LO without ignorantly slipping into PE, now that I’ve acquired so much insights of PE from LwL, and how to handle and eventually heal cPTSD (easily trigger into OCD and LE) from other websites. My daily semi-hypnotic mediation is somehow reducing PE and cPTSD thinking and sharpening my realistic and logical vision….
I’ll test out my newer mental states soon….
Calling Cordelia please! I agree on the lack of productivity being the main negative impact ! On your 18 yr LO friendship, after your early amor incident, can you advise if you visit each other ? If there is SOs, and do they know about the friendship; if you are happy to share of course. The reason is I’m navigating a seemingly very similar scenario in early phase and really want LO in my life after hopefully coming through the intense LE phase! I think the huge distance thing and infrequent meetings can overly heighten feelings when you do meet especially in my case we hadnt spoken to each other for over 6 months and we only texted. So on meeting up again, the dial was turned to 11 and I was stupidly trying too hard to be witty, attractive & elusive.
Controversially I’m beginning to think more frequent contact in between meetings may help, as it may dissipate the hot anticipation and avoid the whole offloading of everything stored up over many months (not just feelings but news, stories etc)
After a recent phone call , instigated by him ( following many weeks NC, silently imposed by myself to get over LE) I realise it is true friendship, we enjoy the same things and we can talk boring stuff too. A realisation that I dont need to be the most exciting and interesting person in the world to hold his attention. I just need to stop wanting LO to desire me, which is frankly all down to my stupid vain mid-life hormonal ego! I may see LO again in his part of the world soon, which I’m trying to frame how best to deal with. Your advice on meeting your LO after your initial amor thing and your handling of that situation to becoming true friends appreciated.
@IMHO
can you advise if you visit each other ?
He hasn’t spoken to me for more than 2 years so no, we don’t visit each other.
I had an SO for ten years.
LO had several SOs in that time. Nothing longer than 3 years. I only met the SO he had from 2006-2008. My SO probably heard us chatting online but he thought nothing of it. I never really introduced them. I wasn’t limerent while I was with SO. As I said, I’m romantically lazy. Also, LO didn’t ever flirt with me when I was with SO. Only when I was single. It was the flirtation that got me limerent again when I left SO and why I believe the feelings were mutual. There was a distinct difference between the way he treated me when I was single and when I was with SO.
For that reason, I can’t really advise you because it was me who pushed for friendship. He was endlessly flirty with me in the beginning and he also said some straight up lovely things to me that I threw back in his face because I couldn’t handle so much emotion. He constantly complained about the walls I had up. Yep those barriers that drive limerence. Even when they weren’t actually there, I put them there.
I’m an odd one. I have always valued myself really. What I haven’t been able to do is let someone like LO value me. There was some part of it I didn’t trust. Like he was just trying to win a game. So by insisting on friendship I’d get to keep the emotional bond long term. And I did. Until after about 15 years of writing back and forth (his emails were like poetry 😍) I started to feel uneasy about it all. I knew nothing about emotional affairs. But we told each other so much. I endlessly complained about SO to him. It was absolutely not the kind of friendship I’d engage in again if I had an SO. I wasn’t limerent at that stage, but our friendship was definitely feeding my ego. If SO had been emotionally available, I wouldn’t have needed that ego boost in the first place so emotional intelligence is top of my list now. Sadly, not many available men in my demographic meet that requisite!
Hi Mila.
Absolutely, love is beautiful . Love just happens, you don’t go looking for it, it just happens . There’s too much suffering, but the problem is that there are real barriers such as the limerent is either married or the Lo is married and not interested . Or it could happen that even if the lo is single shows no interest to the limerent. Therefore, one cannot
force the LO to love you just because you fall in love with them. It is like unrequited love. There’s only one case, that I know of, in the LwL community in which the LE was reciprocated, but both limerent and lo were married. And a very difficult and fragile situation to deal with, there were children involved also and love for the SOs. Very, very difficult situation. It’s to go insane! Each one decides according to their principles, possibilities etc. Not easy, not easy at all. That’s why the blog is called Living with Limerence. There are things and persons you just cannot have, for whatever the reasons. Grief is the price of love, it seems to be. So you choose a purposeful living style instead, to compensate, and be Grateful for what you have. Who said that life is fair???
Friday tomorrow, have a great weekend you all limerents.
After several major LEs and the sufferings they have brought to me, I still feel lucky to be born a limerent. However, it’s so hard not to berate myself for LE, because I believed willpower could control feelings, until now I have better understood the natures of LE.
Knowing LO is unavailable, unfit, or even “harmful” but still unable to get out of an addiction to them makes me to berate myself at least once or twice a day. I was never associated with any other addictions, without knowing LE is a form of neurochemical addiction.
Just observing my own evolving self, I know it’s impossible to be attracted and “love” (action or feeling?) only one person in one’s whole life (or even at a given time for non-limerent), which is based on religion, ideology, morality, but never human biology — we are not swans.
To love without expectations and to feel exhilaratingly alive are indeed gratifying, but sooner or later a craving for our (sub)conscious needs sets in, driving us into LE. I just wish my limerent brain never slipped into the obsessing stage, especially after clearly recognizing LO’s unavailability or unsuitability.
I am trying hard to forgive myself and obtain inner peace for something beyond my control due to my ignorance in LE and cPTSD in the past.
Thank you Call me Cordelia, my actual limerence is also for a good friend- in the beginning there was a light glimmer, but then 10 years if friendship and co-working without LE- now he‘s going to leave for another town and that fear of losing him drove me (and him, I guess) into some limerent frenzy.
Thank god he is kind of a passive and morally very correct person, more so than me… I was close to hinting and disclosing a few times, and I feel/know that he is limerent too, but he would never do a first step to disclose. And then I won’t either. We are both married with families and it’s simply impossible.
The funny thing is that I know him so well, also his weaknesses and not so attractive traits, and I still see them through some glimmer haze…
I just think that I love him very much in one way or the other and that I‘m not willing to trample on my feelings for him because there‘s real love and friendship somewhere buried beneath all the limerence torment.
It must be possible to hold a middle way without vilifying him (great word!). I think I‘m actually on a good way there, mainly because I won’t see him for at least 3 weeks- there‘s something to say for physical distance like in your case…
Also interesting your side as LO- maybe I tend to create my own reality and interpret signs of LOs as reciprocating- I‘m quite sure that they were reciprocating, but not in the urgent way I was feeling, and I can understand that that is really irritating, as if someone claims to know you better than yourself…
Thank you also, Snowphoenix.
I was also getting from one limerence into another and there must be some sort of validation for me, something I crave so that I am unconsciously looking for new LOs to give me that feeling…
Thank you Nisor- that’s what I mean, love is only allowed if all circumstances are correct (single etc), it is not allowed to happen otherwise, and maybe this categorization of feelings is just not human.
But I agree that there’s no solution and the only solution is purposeful living and accepting that you cannot have everything and still have a lot…
In this limerence I am struggling to completely get out of it and let go of LO, I told my son something on the way home from his lady friend’s house Monday. I said “Son you can choose who you want to love for the rest of your life, but you don’t get to choose who you love in life.”
Yes, the pain of unrequited love is guilt, suffering and punishment for the weakness of letting some other woman in your heart. You also have to remember for limerents in the Western world, Christianity is prevalent. And those teachings of Christianity are prolific in the USA, especially. Where in these teachings, marriage and commitment are sacred and letting another woman in your heart is a sin. Now whether you actually believe or follow that teaching is up to you. But in my case if you go by those teachings, (which I was raised by my parents to believe) my limerence is a sin. And that’s where the guilt, suffering and punishment come from.
My dear Adam,
You sound so confused with the teachings of Christianity…
You say that ‘letting another woman in your heart is a sin’ and ‘ that’s where the guilt,suffering and punishment comes from’.
Let me tell you, it is by grace that you’re saved, not by what you do or not do. Don’t judge yourself. The Lord didn’t come to judge the world but to save the World. John 12:47;
Also, ‘ He came to save that which was lost. Mathew 18:11
He didn’t come for the righteous, He came for the unrighteous . In another place He says ‘the healthy don’t need a doctor, that He has come to heal the sick and the broken.’
He is a just God. He can see that what you’re going through is a temptation , you have not acted on it. And even if you acted on it, all you have to do is repent and ask for forgiveness. As simple as that. He already paid the debt of your sin.
A verse for your case:
1 Corinthians 10:13
“No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to
man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way to escape, that you may be able to bear.”
Thus, do not torture yourself with this thinking anymore. The Lord knows we’re humans and we fall often because our weakness, but He’s always there with His hands extended to lift you up.
Hope this help ease your concerns with sin. The word sin only means wrong doing, a mistake, wrong turn, you correct it and keep on walking… not with Johnny Walker Adam, haha.
If you looked at Facebook to see Lo, that’s ok. Everybody backslides. Don’t try to be perfect because we’re not and never will. We do the best we can according to each one’s strength.
Smile Jesus loves you. Have a great weekend.
Johnny Walker 🙂 Not a big whiskey fan. Maybe because I don’t listen to a lot of country. Though I do like Thompal Glaser’s Drinking Them Beers.
I don’t know why forgiveness is harder for me to accept than sin. Maybe my folks instilled in me the fear of God to a drastic point in hopes I would live a righteous life. I dunno.
Thank you for your kind words Nisor. I miss Miss Lovisa a lot. But your calming and healing words of God are just as comforting as hers. You are a blessing Nisor. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my posts. I will try to forgive myself and move forward.
@Mila
You’re lucky to have a mutual, long-term friendship with your LO, which could make mild PE content and enjoyable.
From my learning and research, my cPTSD with its severe emotional negligence (and abuse) in childhood ‘trained” or neurologically wired my forming brain — fantasizing all sorts of stories so as to endure the horrible pain of loneliness, and subconsciously dreaming one day a savior would just magically appear and take me to a la-la land. Then my helpless love of books — the best escape, further cultivated all sorts of imagining abilities.
Later genetic bonding-instinct leads to the glimmer, magically seeing and fantasizing LO as a savior, who seemed to have taken away the profound loneliness or emptiness set by cPTSD. Actually, it is NOT any LO themselves (could be a manipulative Sensor or Narc), but very limited interactions with them and actively fantasizing about the whole dynamic have made the loneliness or emptiness disappear temporarily.
In my case, I need to first heal my cPTSD (its frequent neurological, psychological dysregulations), then my OCD and LE tendency could be eased up along the way — already reduced a great deal in less in the month.
I have finally realized a truth — NO one is coming to save us, especially in our Psychology! We have to BE our own SAVIOR in all aspects of our small or big life, then we could healthily and joyfully befriend with LO and others, and the whole world.
Hi Snowphoenix,
stupid question, what is PE? I know PA, but PE…(not being English)
Well, maybe I sounded a bit too content. I had a really rough time a month ago, being with him a lot (work related). He wanted to be with me all the time too, and I was sitting close to him just yearning to touch him or disclose somehow, all the time only just managing not to, having our families in mind. I cried and suffered a lot then.
Still, this LE is much more bearable than my last ones. First because he is a friend as you said, and second because I know much more about limerence and recognize patterns in myself, and manage some times to separate in my mind the limerence itself from the LO.
But you have much more on your plate than me with your cPSDT etc.!
You seem to work on it effectively though.
And although I cannot say what kind of undiagnosed disorders I have – even if I wouldn’t have any, I can tell you that your last paragraph is so true, there‘s nobody coming to save us, no one to heal us and help us, apart from ourselves.
At the first that might sound sad, but then it has something liberating, I feel!
@Mila,
It’s a typo, I meant LE. For some bizarre reasons, I kept typing PE for LE, so many times.
I think intensity of LE and contentment depend on specific life situations, as well as LO’s attractiveness and personality. You won’t believe how content I was with so little reciprocity from the current LO (married). Due to length and depth of my solitude (w/ little discontent) prior to this super glimmer (rarely happened in my life), I became suddenly joyful just about LO’s mere existence and my own fantasizing of his reality (insufficiently knew and cared about). Dr L is right that LE is primarily in our head, separated from LO themselves.
For 6 years as a colleague/“friend”, I never touched a finger of LO who is dashingly handsome and smart, even when we were drinking champagne together for 3 hours, alone in my top hotel room with a magnificent view of a foreign city… possibly because: 1. It would hurt my pride to break my own oath of decades (still unbroken) — not get into bed with a married man. 2, I was neurologically dysregulated at his presence in private — too nervous to be aroused. 3. By then I strongly believed he’s a narc, or at least a manipulative Sensor, so purposefully resisted to become his fuel physically. Afterwards, I had mixed feelings of proudness and regret.
If I were you, I’d try to enjoy my time being with LO and cherish his friendship in your life, while somehow reducing expectations and thus LE’s pains. Everything has an ending soon or later, so let’s appreciate what we already have while anticipating the future as little as possible. Death is grinning around the corner: I could have been died of known lymphoma in 2020, if not by a lucky chance that they were all removed surgically in time before spreading out.
Treating and healing from cPTSD, (as well as OCD & LE — both could be affects and symptoms of cPTSD, besides other genetic or neurochemistry factors) can only come from within, through whatever external means — years of off-n-on talking therapies did not work for me, besides diagnosing my issues.
Again, NO ONE IS COMING TO SAVE our mind and heart — no magical healing Martian will ever land! Only ourselves can manage what’s going on in our evolving psyche.
Typo: it’s “unknown lymphoma”.
Snowphoenix,
I think you can be proud of yourself, firstly because you had/have severe illnesses you survived and still fight against, secondly because you‘ve got principles that you follow no matter what.
The reason why nothing happened between my and my current LE is, if I‘m honest, that he is passive or not willing to take a dangerous step, maybe he’s principled, I don’t know. But I‘m afraid if he would have made one move like taking my hand or kissing me, I wouldn’t have been able to resist, in the state of constant craving I was in… we too had our hours in hotel rooms.
But now I‘m more in control and like to think that now I could resist and therefore save our friendship. That‘s another thing in this LE- disclosure could actually destroy something more worthy. That’s why I hope I will get over the whole LE bullshit and just be good friends with him again.
I have no experience at all with cPTSD , but you sound as I you‘ve got a good grasp on your situation and see yourself clearly.“, which is more than many of us can say..
@Mila
Thank you for your understanding and encouragement.
My principle came from the lasting suffering to have tasted the cake secretly with LO2 (engaged) a long time ago; afterwards I made the oath to myself. Even realized Memento Moir and survived a cancer, I still did not go for the cake with the current LO, because I knew my mostly-desired reciprocated affection was missing in the cake. Otherwise, I knew I would not be able to resist it, despite of my oath. I imagine it would taste even sweeter after having escaped from the grip of death.
I totally resonate with how you feel, I wanted and tried hard to build a lasting friendship from the day one; the cake would ruin it! LO says he’s deeply mystified by my “friendship”; he knows about my cPTSD and the abandonment melange he has often unawarely gave me, but he probably has no idea of LE or my true desire and profound fear.
After 4 years, I found out he is at least a manipulative, deceitful Sensor (not a typical narc), so now I’ve gone NC w/ him without disclosing or declaring anything — none of his business. Maybe one day after my LE is completely gone, I could befriend him again, like I have done with my last un-glimmered LO (available now), with whom my “LE” has completely gone — It was more of a trauma-bond due to my “unknown” cPTSD back then.
Beside LE, cPTSD has many other symptoms and dysregulations, such as OCD, abandonment melange, anger, foggy head, un-confidence, low self-esteems, illogical, internal emptiness, loneliness in crowd but not in solitude, etc. LE could trigger some of them. Now, when I’m actively treating and curing cPTSD, LE is taking the ride.
In your case, I strongly support your decision not to disclosure LE to LO while keep building a strong friendship, that would last a life time — a very precious gift in relationships. Now, we all understand LE better, it becomes easier to face and manage it. It’s ignorance, not knowledge (Apple of Eden), that brings human sufferings.
Hello Cordelia, thank you for taking the time to thoroughly answer my request. I did read it 3 times over. It’s so interesting reading your real life situation to help make sense of my own, and realise that every situation is as unique and different as we are as individuals. I dont think you are romantically lazy but maybe romantically astute! I wish I was too. It’s got to be a good thing for sure ?! Your LO seemed besotted with you and very eloquent. I’m sorry he is no longer in contact with you, and if that brings you any pain.
Your perspectives on being an LO are also really informative to make me think from the other side. I am also considering whether I was an LO in the past and played up to my role here …..I think I maybe was an LO once and courted the adoration for my own ego. His friend told me to stop courting his attention. Shame on me.
I really like this particular quote you said
“There was some part of it I didn’t trust. Like he was just trying to win a game. So by insisting on friendship I’d get to keep the emotional bond long term. And I did.”
I do wonder if my LO is game playing/ bathing in the adoration not nastily but just genuinely getting lots of validation and warmth from me. But of course I have no real idea what he is thinking. Anyway I may meet him soon, so I have to figure this out and form some kind of plan ! Wish me luck. Thank you.
Thanks, IMHO. I was in a lot of pain when he stopped communicating with me. I even ended up in incredible physical pain for six weeks (maybe more). I had to take a double dose of painkillers just to get to work and I was still in agony all day. I was also enraged because he denied ever having feelings but I had also told him that I ended friendships with guys if I knew they had feelings for me. So who knows why he denied it 🤷♀️
I am glad that I’m the kind of person who can use logic to overcome these things and rage fuels my motivation like nothing else. I turned it into a positive outcome for myself by learning and growing from it.
I would love to see him again one day. For pure scientific curiosity I’d love to know if I’d be limerent for him again, but I’d also like to apologize in person for how screwed up my behavior was.
Imagine if we actually just fearlessly told people how we were feeling 🤷♀️
I’m doing that now. Just putting it out there if I like someone before anything develops in my head. Then if I get a lack of communication back I know we’re not compatible because they don’t have the courage to own how they feel (even if they don’t have the courage to turn me down). Clear and fearless communication is another requisite on my list now because people with healthy self esteem do that.
Hi Cordelia. I’m a bit rubbish with the reply button, so glad you found my post.
Physical pain wow, that must have been very difficult to deal with or even just function.
It seems you have come to terms with it all it a great way, even if you didn’t uncover the reasons for his denial or opportunity to explain/apologise your behaviours, and even if you won’t see him again.
I think clear fearless communication would help dissipate a lot of limerence issues to overcome the whole ‘Loves me? loves me not ? ‘ ruminations, and do so early as you said ‘own it’.
But I guess some people do not do this due to fear of judgement or loss, trust concerns or just not really knowing their feelings themselves. I wish you the best on finding someone with the high emotional intelligence you have. You may need to lower your expectations just a little,😉
Haha IMHO yes it took me nearly 20 years to disclose how I felt to LO so I completely understand why people don’t. The thing is, now that I’ve learnt to be up front I’m completely incompatible with someone who isn’t. So in a way I can’t lower my expectations. Me behaving the way I do will cause everything buried in the other to erupt. If they can’t handle that, we won’t work. So I’m doomed 😩
I really hope you figure out how to navigate this upcoming meeting with your LO without heartache. I think not being physically close to LO was the only reason our friendship worked. He still gave me night terrors for the first few years I was with SO so I’m wondering if he made suggestive comments then as well. Not flirty, but suggestive all the same if that makes sense. I don’t remember and we deleted 7 years of messenger conversation in about 2014 due to an inappropriate conversation I wanted to remove. I have no idea what the conversation was about.
I also realized how he felt about me was irrelevant. I felt that his purpose in my
life was to help me love myself. It was the only way to stop my night terrors and realizing he was the trigger that caused my trauma to erupt like that was confronting and liberating all at once. Which brings me back to my original point – when someone triggers us to that extent nothing good will come of it unless we lean IN to the pain and deal with it. That’s probably the best advice I can give you. Let the pain tell you what needs addressing and maybe you’ll break free of it. Good luck! 🍀
Gosh C4C this has really touched a nerve!
“I also realized how he felt about me was irrelevant. I felt that his purpose in my
life was to help me love myself….nothing good will come of it unless we lean IN to the pain and deal with it.”
This is so key for me. I sort of knew it but seeing it written has hit my soul, heart and spirit – I have had countless therapies, programmes, courses, but have never really dealt with the pain. I see how LO, all of them, are just other ways to numb that pain. I feel hopeless yet hopeful in an odd way! Thank you for sharing this!
Hi Problem Child
I’m glad that resonated with you ☺️
I’ve written this a few times on here but I’ll say it again because I cannot express how helpful this work was for me –
The LonerWolf Dark Night of the Soul journal is what I’d credit with being the single most effective form of self-help I used. And I used a lot. You buy it online and it’s not expensive. A lot of the major realizations I came to happened thanks to that workbook. I will just add here that the LonerWolf people do say that there are some people that wouldn’t find it effective because their trauma is huge and facing it isn’t always effective. If you think you fall into that category then don’t read further. Without knowing your history I can only let you know what worked for me…
The key is embracing your darkness. And crying. Lots of it. Just not tears of self-pity. Tears of acceptance and growth. They’re different because they’re tears of processing pain rather than perpetuating it. Tears of humanity because you’re finally glad to be human and imperfect and actually these tears are amazing. Now I cry when I need to process at the time rather than bottling things up and crying over what isn’t actually the ‘thing’ just a substitute for the ‘thing’. Go cry a River of productivity that washes away the walls guarding your pain. Let the river carry the walls and pain into the ocean. Then you can work on making waves that you can ride to where you want to be 😉❤️
Crying can be amazing cathartic.
Yes it can 🥺😭🥹
I was crying over LO after work again today. Nothing bad happened, but sometimes I think that’s why I end up in tears anyway. She just moves so much emotion within me, I lose it. Once I start crying, I can’t stop. Sometimes I feel better after.
Aww MJ 🥹
But is she the ‘thing’ or the substitute for the ‘thing’? Ya know what I’m saying?
@Cordelia,
I don’t know. Sometimes it’s all over her and then it gets exacerbated by everything else I have going on besides her.
Not really looking for sympathy, but I’ve made just a ton of bad choices in life. I feel like I have nothing to ever to look forward to, and it’s all my fault, I get it..
Nobody deserves my petty anger though. I’m better than that and I’m doing better I think.
The LE has just compounded things. As much as I’m into LO, I pretty much know the feelings aren’t mutual and it’s frustrating and makes me sad. I could begin to change this, but my insecurities always get in the way. It’s like a vicious cycle and that’s when I cry.
The hope now is that I can regulate my emotions even upon seeing LO. The whole LE has been one of the most challenging and painful experiences to navigate, no two ways about it.
My two cents – hang in there, try to do NC/LC, connect with family and friends, find something that interests you and go for it. LwL forums have been a tremendous source of support and encouragement, would like to thank all the members for their super useful inputs, and for always listening. Wish you all lots of courage.
Hey. Thought that I would share some updates on my LE. Feelings towards LO seem to be stabilizing now – the rumination has gone down significantly. Thoughts of LO still pop up in the brain every now and then, but they do not seem to evoke the strong feelings of sadness that they used to. Perhaps the LE is running its course. One of the major concerns was loss of productivity, and that also seems to be getting much better. Trying to work towards purposeful living, that seems to help a lot. NC/LC has helped tremendously. Really hope that I can continue to go on this path.
Reading some of the conversations here, I thought I’d thrown in a few things I have found over the years that might help some like they helped me.
“Sometimes you have to accept someone else’s choice even though it will hurt you more than they will ever know.”
“Sometimes you love people in a language that they cannot understand.”
“My head is telling me to forget you ever existed but my heart is telling me to h
old on and never let go, and I have no *ucking idea which to listen to anymore.”
“It’s painful to say goodbye to someone that you don’t want to let go. But it’s more painful to ask someone to stay if you know they really want to go.”
“Who do you turn to when the only person in the world that can stop you from crying, is exactly the one making you cry.”
“Who do you turn to when the only person in the world that can stop you from crying, is exactly the one making you cry.”
Adam, I love that.. LO can make me bawl like a big baby. I don’t know if that’s a good or a bad thing. I often wonder if she could see me, would she laugh or console me. I would love to think she would totally mother me and console me all night long. I would fall asleep in her warm embrace.. 😍
Adam, MJ and suffering limerents . I feel your pain
“The most delicate fabric in all creation is suffering. Suffering is like a wound that bleeds when touched by other than a loving hand and even then must bleed, though not in pain. Where there’s suffering there is sacred ground. “ Oscar Wilde – De Profundis)
Sorrow puts in contact with the divine.
Suffering is infinite-eternal.
Behind sorrow there’s always a soul. (I think Dante said these ones)
Sorrow, that’s all limerence amounts to, and nothing else. So embrace your souls and be kind to it. Be compassionate to yourself. Tears, the only thing that can clean the soul…
I agree Nisor. Thank you. Your kindness and support means so much. I’m really trying to be nicer to myself. Despite the mind I often think I have lost.
Hi MJ
Same here.
I often feel i don’t want to think anymore, not with lo or anything. . I was doing fine but I find myself lately ruminating again , and feel very anxious and sad and crying.(memories ) Due to the heat I don’t go for walks which I enjoy very much and I extrovert a lot. I’ll be traveling for a few days so that will help to forget some. Hope Lo doesn’t come along on a free trip in my mind.
You stay put and treat yourself to something you’d like to enjoy. Be good to yourself please.
I did Nisor. I treated myself to some cheese curds and a cold Coke. Perfect treat for a summers day.. 😋
Enjoy your trip..
Hi, MJ
How are you doing?
Back from my vacation time. It was wonderful to get away for awhile. Met my daughter and husband halfway who came from the states . We’re by the Alps where it’s cool and serene.
As usual, LO was everywhere from the start. Memories came to me of an unforgettable four days we had vacation when he was my SO for three years. The restaurants, the scenery, etc brought back memories so sweet and yet so sad…
As I packed the suitcases I came across a shirt with ruffles, the which reminded me of an emerald green dress with beautiful white ruffles around the neck I wore to a formal dinner party LO invited me to accompany him. When he saw me, he looked at the 👗 dress and said surprisingly : “why that dress?” I kept silent, but always wondered what he meant??? It was a long dress and I looked gorgeous in it, so the ladies at the dinner party told me. He had a way of saying things that will pierce my mind and soul forever. I feel mad at myself for keeping quiet and silent like a little lamb when Lo speaks. Not even a pussycat, like you said how you feel when you see your LO, for pussycats at least have claws and can scratch… This weakness only happens with Lo, for with my SO I’m very open and direct to talk to when he talks to me, and I hold nothing back. I feel secure with my SO. He loves me to death. I should be grateful for his love and care, and I am; and should feel ashamed that lo is intruding in my life this past 15 months. But I can’t help it. I even bought some post cards to mail to Lo, that’s the only way I can communicate with him, but it’s one way communication… I’m thinking not to mail it and try hard to forget about lo altogether. Only if I knew how…
Hang in there, Nisor.
Nostalgia is a powerful thing to get mixed into the LE, especially when you go places where you went with him, and everything has this beautifying haze when you look at it now..
But isn’t it plain rude to say „why that dress“ without an explanation, when you were dressing up for the occasion? Even if he wanted to be mysterious or whatever, why not consider that it would make you feel insecure and awkward?
Don’t glorify him, please!
Nisor
Your comment of your dress and LO’s lack of response reminded me of a conversation with LO about wearing dresses. She was very much a tomboy and hated wearing dresses. She told me when she was a young child her grandmother would dress her in dresses and she would go outside and get them muddy right away so that she would have to change clothes. I told her that “I don’t know why you won’t wear dresses, you would look beautiful in one.” And she just starred blankly at me like I was speaking another language.
My wife is the same way. She rarely wears dresses/skirts and she looks beautiful in them. Me and me falling for tomboys. There is nothing on earth more stunning than a woman in a beautiful dress.
Hello Nisor,
Glad you made it back. Sounds like your trip went alright but feeling nostalgic for LO. I get that way on occasion thinking about my Ex. I’ll see someone that resembles her figure or has her hair and it takes me back to when times seemed better. Today I drove by a family get-together in the neighborhood and said to myself, “I remember when I had a family”.
Of course I still have my family, but we’ve all been separated for years. Nothing is like it was and sometimes I miss that.
Sometimes when I ruminate over LO, I imagine her taking my Daughter under her wing and they go out and go shop together, or they go get their nails done, or they just hang out together. I like to think they would get along because there’s only an 11 year age difference between them and I feel like LO could almost be like a big sister to her. I don’t know. Maybe that’s just too ridiculous of an idea. I guess I want it because I like thinking maybe LO would humanize me again and help my Daughter not dislike me so much.
LO has a side gig too where she colors hair, and does hair and lash extensions. I feel like my Daughter would totally love that. And I could see her loving whatever LO could do for her. She’s always into looking good and loves to be fashionable.
Like LO.
I know it’s hard not to think about them. Seeing them everywhere and in everything can be emotional. At least in your situation, you have real memories of LO. Unlike myself that has only fantasies to dwell upon. So pathetic isn’t it? Not only that, you have an SO that cares for you. I can only dream of that kind of stuff.
@Nisor.
Yes, please hang in there. It is natural for the LO memories to keep coming back. And it may be impossible to forget about LO totally. I guess one just accepts the feelings and does not act on them and moves on.
Mila, ABCD, Adam,
Lo has always made me feel insecure and awkward. I don’t think he was ever transparent with me. I broke up with him because I was bored and resentful with the relationship going nowhere. And I told him I was bored. And he said if we get married we have to move to another state. He didn’t explain why and me being an introvert didn’t ask either. That did it, I knew then and there the relationship was over for me. Either he was hiding something or he was hiding me from someone. I think that someone were his parents… he had introduced me to his brothers and sister but not the parents . Why ? He’s from a different ethnicity than mine. Probably they wouldn’t approve. Just expeculating.
I need the LwL community input to help me decipher this myth so I can move forward with my life.
When I walk out of the relationship we didn’t talk. I just mailed him the mementos to his home. Three days later he called, but I had instructed my room mate to answer the phone and if it was him to say I’m not home. He did called in two occasions. Then he showed up at my office with the excuse to bring me an article that he thought I’d be interested. Never asked why I was behaving strange and cold. But asked if we could be friends. Friends? How can I be friends with someone I love so much? But I didn’t say that of course . I just said it was ok to be friends. Bah.
I knew I’ll never be friends with him. I said I had to go back to eory, and he leaned over to kiss my forehead but I put my hand out and leaned back. He said’what?’
I said: my brothers I let them kiss me, friends, I only shake hands with. So we shook hands and that was the very last time I saw Lo, who was my So for three years. Two days later he called at seven in the morning saying: “this is (and he stated name and last name), and I have never before loved any other women more than I have loved you.”
And I said: Now is too late. He said: “I just wanted to you to know that.” And I said: I have to hang up for I have to get ready for work and I’m late. I hung up and that was the last time we talked.
Now, fast forward 49 years later, I had a dream of Lo (story on LwL/dreams) where limerence was born that night …We didn’t have any common friends so I never knew anything about him, except that he got married in short order after our breakup.*
His brother happened to work in the same building and he asked me out for lunch, and he told me SO got married . I tried to stay composed and just uttered ,”so fast?” He said, she’s a good girl, pause, then added,”too”. Got it? I was not a good girl. Then added, “when you break with someone you mean it for good ah.” I said, I’m a slow walker but never walk back. We said goodbye and never saw him again either though we worked in the same building. After the dream, I was concerned y my mental health as well as to where LO could be. Is he alive, sick, or has Alzheimer’s disease, dementia, etc. I had an urgency to talk to him. I searched and found his phone and address and lots of more info I didn’t dare look up because they asked many questions and a fee and I was afraid My So would find out. I don’t want to hurt so with this craziness. He handles all the accounts).
It took me five months to finally call , will he remember, after all, I was only three years in his life. So many years has passed. Nonetheless, I called and he remembered me. It was so emotional I felt like crying but I held myself calm. First question he asked if got married . I said yes and I’m married for 45 years same husband. He went ahead to tell me his life adventures, married for ten years, divorced, single for sixteen years, married again. Uh uh, that wandering eye…. In between I told him , you know you’re the love of my
life. He said: “ sorry you feel that way.” No problem , I was not expecting him to feel otherwise.
After awhile he thanked me “for the beautiful moments you gave me.” Also that he only says good things about me??? To whom, his wives and girlfriends ? For we had no common friends except his brother, now deceased , he told me. I asked him if I could send photos by phone and he said he had one of those flat old phones, ???and offered to give me his address…
I also asked if I could call him again and he said: “aren’t we friends ?” (Well, in the friend zone again… nope. I’ll never be his friend. ) End of phone call. I was happy and sad at the same time and cried a river when I got home. For I call from outside. SO is always around in the house .
I called a week after and a female voice recording answers the phone… either he told his wife or she overheard him??
A month later I called again, that’s not like me… where’s my dignity, my self respect? This time he asked me:” Have you found happiness in your life?”, if he thought for a minute that without him there wouldn’t be happiness for me, he was mistaken. I told him: I have, I have lived an abundant life, travelled all over Europe and other countries, manage to send children to private schools all the time, etc , he interrupted to tell me abt his son. Then added:”. You were not patient, have you waited a little longer our lives would have been different now, it was not meant to be, it was fate, maybe God.” ( and I thought: how do you like them apples?) Why would he say that? This statement has me doubting and is confusing me like hell!!! I told him then: I know you loved me and I loved you too, and we were the envy of everybody… he interrupted somehow annoyed and said: “but you listened to your friends” . (What is he talking about? I always take decisions on my own, not depending in anyone.
That statement that I was not patient is baloney, he had three years to do what he was supposed to do. I was more than patient. And what could have changed if I were patient ? You see, when LO talks I become mute, silent, silly, I think of answers only after it’s too late, when I get home by myself. Ughr.
Anyway , he said “he only has good memories of me” and thanked me for reminiscing him in my mind.” Cute eh? I had to hang up because I was getting jittery and weak, too much to absorb and too ridiculous to continue the conversation. Can’t believe myself getting to this point. I never, never chased him. In three years I only called him once! He did the iniciating all the time. What’s happening to me? This whole thing is overwhelming !!! I just want to switch it off!!! What do you think? Is lo a narcissist or is it me? Are these things normal? Waiting for your answers…
@Nisor.
Sorry I forgot to reply to your post. Just wanted to check on how you were feeling now. Hope that you’re doing better.
Hi ABCD
Thanks for your kindness.
I’m alright, thanks. You know how it is, sometimes you feel sensitive and if something triggers your memories the intrusive thoughts and memories come rushing in and sadness floods you again.
I’m retired and not much to do. I haven’t seen LO for half a century now! I cannot communicate either because his wife has control over his phone since I contacted him last year. Only talked to him twice last year after 49 years of NC. This is forced NC now.
Of which I’m grateful because I’m sure if I could comunícate with him more I’d be leaking emotions back home and SO would notice something is going amiss . Because I cry uncontrollably and can’t hide it. So I have to come up with an excuse , something like I miss my family back home, allergy for red eyes, then you feel guilty with SO. Will see how this thing plays out, hoping it will take its course out at whatever time it happens, no rush. Like Marcia said, no Limerent wants to let go of LO.( sorry Marcia if I’m misquoting you) I really don’t want to be a masochist. I’d rather it goes away, far from me!
Take good care of yourself. We need to !
MJ, how are you today? I think you’re feeling lonely? Sometimes, people feel lonely (I do sometimes) even when surrounded by a whole bunch of people. Other times, one seek to enjoy some “alone time.” It’s a state of mind. If only we can strike the balance. Sometimes it is better alone than in bad company, specially that of a nagging wife or a cranky husband. I always admired the philosophy of stoicism.Or being an idealist, a hermit in the Himalayas, an Indian in a tribe in the Amazon.
No, that’s when I’m trying to escape the reality that life is. I really want to go back on time when I was 25 /30y/o, like Frank Sinatra said , it was a very good year…years for me. The 70s good music, hot pants, beautiful clothing styles, hair styles, Woodstock, LO, it was so lovely and liberating. I had fun then, not a care in my mind. I’m stuck on those times. I’m not kidding you!
But the busy years went rushing by us…
As Sammy said at the coffee house post of this week:
“What a terrible sad world we live in.”
It is true, nowadays, no one is ever completely happy with what we have. I should be grateful and thank God for His grace and mercy with me and family. I’m grateful.
Your dreams of LO and daughter are beautiful. Let’s pray for that to happen. You need to write love letters to your daughter. Tell her that you love her in spite of… send her cards with your love message all the time. She’s going through rough times too and needs your validation and assurance that she can count on you as a father. Girls love their daddy’s. I had rough time with my daughter also as a teenager, she rebelled against me. Wouldn’t talk to me. I still wrote her love notes and left them at her desk or under the pillow. I wrote I was trying to be a better mother to her , that I was learning to be a mother and there’s no schooling for that, that I needed her help and learn together; she gave up and things became normal again. Thanks God!
Try always to do something to please yourself, go to a movie, buy yourself something you always wanted to have. Have a new hair style, new clothes, I don’t know, a new tool for the garden. Plant a tree, go say hello to the neighbors. Practice your social skills at the supermarket etc. Smile, smile Jesus loves you. Practice smiling at people you don’t know. I did that on the streets and people smiled back at me!im just trying to cheer you up. I want you to have hopes for a better blessed future even if you don’t see it now. Things will change. Hang in there. Don’t you ever quit!!! 💪🏽❤️
@ MJ.
I agree with Nisor. Please try to do something that feels good, to take your mind off this LE. The current situation may seem hard, but it will get better, have faith.
Good morning Nisor,
Not sure if it’s morning where you are but I thought I’d say it anyway. It’s nighttime here and I’m getting ready to get into bed.
Thank you for your reply. So often reading your posts makes me feel better so thank you for being that ray of hope. I will continue to pray for that special moment with LO. Whatever it may be. Right now it seems far fetched to think that way, but you never know..
I did txt my Daughter this morning. Taking your idea.
I told her that I hoped she had a nice weekend and has a good day at School. She responded warmly after that later on, so it made me feel good.. Baby steps..
Thanks to you my friend. I wouldn’t have done it without your suggestion. Perhaps your already an Angel and don’t even know it yet. Somehow you just knew I should do that today so thank you again for your support.
MJ , hi. I’m in Europe. It’s morning here now.
I’m glad your daughter answered you positively. Finding ways to understand her may help you deal with “dismissive “ women. haha. You keep on sending good
morning texts to her and decorate it with emojis and sweet words, every woman loves sweet words, it’s like a caressing balsam, and being understood is key to a woman. Specially your child. She’s got your DNA, so it would be easy to get to her heart. She has a big special place for you in her heart. She took
after you. Your love for her will cleanse any bitterness she may be having now as a teenager. Striking a good relationship with your daughter will also deviate you a little from lo. I have you in my prayers and know that somehow God has an exit for your trials. I Also pray for Adam and family, and Speedwagon, ABCD, LwL community. I think of all the emotional afflictions all limerents go through, and pray for their inner peace of mind, for that peace of God that surpasses all understanding to cover them all and give them wisdom and discernment to deal with LEs. we are so sensitive and fragile like real fine handmade glass from Europe. We need lots of love and understanding. I think love is the most needed commodity there is in the world for all ages.
Hearts are not practical until they’re made unbreakable, (until then) . (Wizard of Oz)
Have a great positive day, lift up
your chin and smile, Jesus loves you.
Nisor ,
I‘m a bit confused by the story. What didn’t he do in the three years that he was supposed to do?
And also the conversation about you being bored and him answering that if you marry you would have to move to another state, confuses me somewhat.
It sounds as if your communication was really off somehow.
I can only guess that this is the reason why you feel like that now- so many unresolved things, open questions, uncertainty as its best.
He is „unfinished business“, a riddle, the material for limerence par excellence.
But honestly, from the very outside, he doesn’t sound like a riddle or myth, he sounds like someone who was not mature enough to express himself honestly to you, and maybe you were not mature enough back then (please, no offense) to press him for an open conversation about your relationship.
Nothing mythical about it.
Sorry if I‘m being blunt.
I just thought I was really very blunt, sorry. I would just like to shake you out of that nostalgia. You deserve something better than this kind of relationship you had. Now you are mature, strong, you managed to have a great marriage for such a long time, you are way too good for some mythical guy who doesn’t appreciate your dress sense 😉
Mila ,
You’re not blunt at all. It’s the truth, I was very immature and him too. We were no kids, it was my first long term relationship. He was divorced, no children. Eight years older than me.
What was he supposed to do… well after three years doing the same thing something got to change, either we do different things, live together, get married etc. He was the initiator all the time. When I told him I was bored because the relationship was not going anywhere, he came out with that statement about marriage and moving to another state. I don’t understand why he said that. Maybe he thought I wanted to get married, but at no time at all did that pass my mind. I was just plain bored of just going out to fancy restaurants and nothing else. Only one time we went vacation, no holidays , no weekends, it was a weird relationship. Seeing each other twice a week. I thought then that that was ok. Now I think he used me in my ignorance. But I never complained to him. I guess I was expecting him to read my mind, to take the lead. .I was so naive, it’s ridiculous the whole thing. I was so much in love like puppy love… But, oh boy did I mature fast after that! Also I didn’t grief or mourn the loss. I was sad but didn’t shed a tear… was too proud and arrogant, thought of it as a weakness. Oh, not me, I’m strong , I’ll get over it kind of attitude. Very immature indeed. But him? I guess I confused him. He used to say that I was ‘so private’. He was possessive and jealous. And I sometimes felt like a prisoner with him. My
mind was mainly to excel at work and had no time to think of my personal life, neglected it. I did excel at my job. After, I realized work is not everything…
@Nisor this is heartbreaking to read about. The conversations which ended your three year relationship with your LO seem to have been so unresolved all that time ago. As we all know only too well, unresolved issues can fuel rumination. It is easy to become plagued by such questioning of oneself and others.
May I ask, what was your relationship with your LO like over the three years. Was the dynamic between you exciting and somewhat insecure (your admittance of shyness might indicate this). Or was it more steady and comfortable? Can you examine it without idealising it? To me (I could be wrong), attachment theory and the desirability of unavailable SOs for some people comes to mind. I am sorry if I am intruding with these questions as I am new on LwL (well, I have been reading for about 6 months but not commenting).
Also, I wonder, have you an idea of why these issues have emerged now after decades of happy marriage? It is frankly terrifying to think that limerence can surface after such a long time.
For @ABCD, @MJ, @Adam @Speedwagon and others (including myself) who are experiencing grief and melancholy, I re-read this thread today and felt less alone https://livingwithlimerence.com/case-study-post-limerence-melancholy/
My LE is still not all sadness as I get phases of being happier that it has happened to me, rather than not (I am experiencing the first LE ever in my midlife)
Welcome to the group Bewitched.
I had a beautiful relationship, he treated me like a real princess, very respectful. He was and is a real gentleman . Just had a little skirmish in three years because of his jealousy, but immediately was solved. He would just won’t talk to me for a week and then like nothing happened. I think he was an introvert too, like me.
This is too late too resolve, as it should have been done then, not now. I just packed it all in a corner of my heart and moved along . After three years I got married, had a family and never thought or dreamed of LO, never, until last year, when I had the dream of him. Now of course I got to muster all the courage and be strong willed to get rid of this sorrow. Perhaps it is just regret for lack of communication and understanding each other. If I come to terms with myself I think I can overcome it. I m not depressed or down at this point, since the worst passed already. I’m a very optimistic person and I think I’ll be triumphant!
A song for the blog: “ What I did for love” by josh groban
Thank you all for your concerns.
Bewitched
Thanks for your post. I appreciate it very much. And yes, I want tough love, tough questions so I can sort it all out. Have no mercy with me. I need a good spanking…
I see you’re also going thru the mill. Yes, at the beginning of the LE one experiences such a euphoria, happiness that you feel in cloud nine. It’s unexplainable but then you want to act on it, and that’s when the longing, yearning, craving starts. You become addicted and the ruminating and intrusive thoughts hit you hard, unable to shake them off. You feel trapped and unable to do anything to get away. Thus, you learn to live with it, more or less, sometimes ok others not so good.
You asked if my relationship with LO was steady and comfortable? Yes, it was. When we’re together I felt great and happy. No problem talking and sharing our feelings. But it became habitual, doing the same thing all the time. No action. My SO is completely the opposite, he was mature, knew what he wanted and pursued it, was economically solvent, was available at all times, was a riot, ready for action at all times. Always wanted to go places, adventurous, generous , kind , never bored with him.
Indeed, I have a great SO. Can’t and shouldn’t complain, I’m grateful for having him as my SO. He’s also a great loving father to our children. This limerence has to GO!
Have a pleasant weekend. Sending my love and wishing you good riddance of limerence soon.
@Nisor,
I wanted to reply because I believe that our situations have quite a lot in common. I also have a wonderful SO. I would go so far as to consider them perfect. They are possibly too devoted – in the sense that it can be claustrophobic to have such devotion for almost 20 years now. But we have loads in common, great conversation, there is plenty of physical attraction and I never have cause to doubt them. We are also blessed with a wonderful child.
Another point I thought that you and I have in common is the emergence of a first LE later in life. Thank you for your thoughts in this regard in your last post. Actually, my LE is not new, its has been going on for quite a few years now but it only got really bad in the last year (pain in the heart, intrusive thoughts, 100% focus on LO, insomnia, dreams, …etc). I read many posts saying that a LE has been going on for a few months or a year, maybe two. My LE seems very lengthy by comparison. But honestly, I can also say that I do not want it to go anywhere.
That’s because even now, at its worst, I cannot regret it. There is good and bad in this LE. I think my LO reciprocates but its we both know its not going anywhere because the barriers are too large. It has been ‘manageable’ so far as we only see one another occasionally. However, I am definitely guilty of using this LE to ‘self medicate’. I have had serious health problems amongst my close family and I think that made the LE flare up to its current intensity as it provided a welcome distraction. I don’t know if I would have come through all of that without my LO to focus on.
I think that it has also shaken me out of complacency. Relations with SO have improved, if anything because it has made me realize that I do not want to lose them and how much I appreciate them. I also desperately do not want my LO to suffer as I think they may be prone to that.
I am glad that you are having some strong days (amongst the weak ones). It’s the same here. Some days I want to scream and others I feel far more serene.
Sending warm wishes 🙂
Hello Bewitched,
Just a few things here. Welcome. To start.
Thanks for your post.
Since it appears you have been following our stories on Lwl for awhile, you probably know my LE has been active for over a year now. It has causes me immense euphoric happiness to extreme lows I didn’t think were even possible. Especially with someone I’m not in a relationship with, never have been, nor probably ever will be. I’m trying to make myself ok with that. But its like I live in a constant state of anxiety and if you could see me in person, I probably do walk around with a gray cloud cast over me all the time. I am extremely sad. It shows, and it only goes away when I see LO. Doesn’t matter if she sees me or not. I just know I’m prone to seeing her at any given moment when I am at work. So being at work is never an issue for me because there is a great hope I may always run into LO.
Like yourself, my LE has been going on for awhile now, causes so many emotions within me, but because they can be so good at times, I find I really don’t want the LE to go anywhere. Infact I question now, how could I go on without it? Just the idea of not thinking of her causes me deep hurt. I feel like it’s a sickness. Like I’ve truly lost my mind. But I won’t and refuse to give up on this person. Even at its worst and in the face of pretty obvious rejection from my LO, I still don’t want it to go anywhere.
“It’s unexplainable but then you want to act on it, and that’s when the longing, yearning, craving starts. You become addicted and the ruminating and intrusive thoughts hit you hard, unable to shake them off. You feel trapped and unable to do anything to get away. Thus, you learn to live with it, more or less, sometimes ok others not so good.”
It’s that comment, that really hit home for me. You know it exactly!! It’s like living with a madness and maintaining it is all I know how to do anymore.
Recently I made an attempt to get into therapy again. This now is the 2nd attempt I have made, to ask a Therapist if they know anything about limerence. They told me no. “Sorry”..
When I attempt to explain what it is, they react and look at me as if I am almost speaking a foreign language. It’s like throwing them a curveball and then they get irritated at me for doing so. Then the best they can tell me is that right now, they have no Therapists available to accommodate my schedule.. Like shut the door in my face again. Pardon f%$#@^g me I work long hours, trying to provide for myself. It’s like they just want to come up with an excuse not to even slightly help. I even went as far as to mention I have had suicidal ideation over this issue and it’s like they couldn’t give 2 $#!ts less. What is the point of trying to talk to people to get some kind of direction or at least organization of thought, if they are put off by me efforts to even speak of what I’m going through??
Guess it doesn’t matter. Thank Christ for this community though. Everyone here has been an amazing blessing to me. They give me tough love, try to help me and I never listen. I’m a stubborn mule. Turning into an old Grouch. So very sad.. I guess that’s why I’m still here..
Bewitched, looking forward to having you here. Best wishes to you also..
Bewitched,
I understand using the LO to self
‘medicate’, it’s a way of escapism from the drudges of daily life, and it feels wonderful and safe at the beginning . But you got to be careful because this ghost is vindictive. Once it gets encroached in your life, it takes control over you like a drug. It’s when you try to have some equilibrium that it becomes difficult. Then you realize you have to go NC. The withdrawal symptoms are very, very painful. And you may ‘leak ‘ letting your SO guessing what’s wrong with you. When there are real barriers like an SO, this limerence doesn’t work or benefit in any way , just brings pain and suffering, and one may jeopardize the marriage. It’s like treading on a thin line.
At the beginning I thought I could keep communicating with LO as a friend, thanks God there were barriers, because I would have leaked some emotions home and get in trouble with SO and family. And for what? One cannot have LO for keeps …The deeper one gets involved the worse it becomes to detach. One cannot have the cake and eat too. How true this is! All limerents are dealing with this dilemma. And the answer always is NC at the end. Hard but true.
Good luck to you . Have a wonderful weekend.
@Bewitched.
Hi, and thanks for sharing your story. There are a lot of parallels between your LE and mine. Like you, I also do not see LO often. I get the feeling that LO has been pulling back for some time, so the withdrawal phase seems to going on. There is always a temptation to reminisce about past interactions to feel better, though that is not a good option, however it’s hard not to. Like you, I also think if LO interactions can be at a “manageable” level, but I don’t think that may be possible, at-least now right now.
So, right now, I am trying to get a positive attitude by pursuing hobbies etc., hoping they will supplant the grief.
Thanks for sharing the thread, will be going through it definitely.
@ABCD
Thank you for replying. Do I have it right that you are in occasional contact and it is in a professional context?
This is indeed similar to me. There is no EA or PA, in my case. No anything, apart from gazey looks etc. Periods of NC that last months are common.
But when we are in the same room, I am quite empathic and can pick up on the intense energy mostly off them as I hide mine or am naturally friendly to all.
My sympathies on experiencing your withdrawal phase. This has not happened to me yet and I absolutely dread it. Who knows why this may be happening in your case, I am sure you have gone through all the permutations a million times. Nevertheless, it sounds as though you are resolved to move on? Maybe that depends on the day though, huh? It also sounds as though your LO is not the type to string you along. Which is of meagre comfort, I know.
Sending all my best.
@MJ
Thank you for your comment. I have been reading LwL for at least 6 months and have followed your story. You express yourself so well. I mean, its hard knowing that you are going through such a hard time. But at least you are happy some of the time (even if the reason for this is also the same reason for the hard times).
What is striking to me is how much capacity you have for creating a pair bond in with a special person in your life. That is a wonderful thing and I guess I am not surprised that you want to hang on to it. Its how I feel too.
Because I have been doing limerence for quite a long time (but barely see my LO and have long periods of NC), I am not interested in deprogramming or devaluing my LO, transference, or anything that would put me off them. Instead I am trying to keep it in my life but only at a ‘manageable level’. Maybe (certainly?) this is naive but my experience is that things are mostly manageable. The exception is after seeing my LO, then it can be difficult for a few weeks – before returning to a more manageable level and going NC. Its been going on like this for ages.
Why do this? Because on some level, I feel that having this loving feeling that feels monumental and very exciting, but also generous towards them, is okay. I love them. I only know them a little bit but I like their personality enormously. I think they are very shy and worthy of love. I also love my SO and have been trying my best to be better to them, they deserve my physical and emotional attention. I give them more, not less, since all this kicked off.
I have very much identified with how you express yourself about your LO, the good and the bad. I love that I have the capacity for great and overwhelming love, I love that I have this intensity. And so do you. I love this about myself. I don’t care if its all in my head. Its painful at times, but hey.
Therapy might help explore large topics such as “fear of change” (also something I struggle with). But I also think the LwL blogs and comments are the most knowledgeable you are likely to find about limerence itself. ‘Free therapy’, if you will, while you wait for these fricken people to see you. Some of the blogs about how people have managed to use limerence as a way to gain self knowledge or self improvement may seem out of reach, or difficult to put into practice without some support from a therapist. Nevertheless, I feel that the one key message is to have self love and self acceptance. You are lovable and I see this from your posts. You are a cool person, capable of great romance. You have an intensity which is attractive to many people. You are someone who can put their feelings into words and who is not afraid of emotion. In short, as many others in this community have said, you are ‘a catch’.
Take care of yourself – we all understand the dilemma. But own mentality is the key. Love yourself.
@Bewitched,
I am flattered by your reply. Thank you for so many nice compliments. However, I need to ask, are you sure you don’t have me mixed up with Adam? No disrespect, but I’ve always found his writings way more in depth and personal and way better than anything I’ve ever posted. Guess it’s no biggie. I try to be thorough with what I write. I’m glad you can sense the depths of where I’m trying to come from, but I feel like such an average person. Definitely do not feel like the “catch” as you referred to me as.
LO does infact mean the world to me. She is the most beautiful, gorgeous, alluring, spectacular, attractive Woman I have ever laid my sick eyes upon. I say all the time I am in love with her, but I think it’s more like I am in love with the idea of loving her. This is what I see from the outside. I don’t know what she’s truly like as a person inside. I didn’t think pair bonding was possible with someone I have never been with. Does that mean that if in my heart I feel such a connection with her, it then becomes a true pair bond? I guess I’m just a little overwhelmed by that statement, because she is all I ever think about. Why I am in tears most of the time. But didn’t think it could be real if it (a real relationship) didn’t actually exist.
It is true that I have a very hard time of giving up on the idea of LO and I (an “us”) at some point. The thought of being with her and not even in a remotely sexual way is something I would love to get used to. I think it’s also a very touching and emotional issue for me as well because I get extremely shy in her presence and beginning to believe she is unavailable. Perhaps she always has been, given her looks. Truth is, I hardly know her. We’ve said hello, exchanged very few words, and that’s it. I’ve been trying to make myself ok with these facts. Where it tends to get me down and sad is that it keeps me alone all the time and sometimes I just crave that human connection. Especially with LO.
I suppose where you and I differ is you have an SO and I do not. In 12 years, I have only had 1 SO and that lasted maybe only 3 years tops. I don’t even know if I could call it a relationship either because I never considered us exclusive. These days, I’m just alone with nobody. To say that I am a catch, you would think I have Women lining up at my doorstep. That’s hardly the case. Don’t get me wrong. I feel I have an immense propensity to love and adore. I feel like I deserve it, and then some. But I must be doing something wrong to have the kind if track record I do. I am at a place in life where I don’t care if a girl never becomes my SO. I’d just like to have a lady friend to come over and watch TV with me now and then. I don’t feel like that’s asking too much. But maybe it is.
Considering you must have a person (SO)to share your life with, it probably makes things easier for you when you go through long stretches without seeing your LO.
Thats the difference with me and a lot of people in this forum is that I concoct a lot of this LE in my head. I feed off it. It then consumes me. My time, my sadness, my depression, my anger, my work habits, my empathy, my ability to function, my tears, my hope, my loss, my etc, etc, etc. It’s a madness I would sometimes rather do without. Perhaps that’s just a morsel of why I am still alone. Why I can cry for hours at a time. And to a God that I don’t even know for sure is listening. I might just be crazy and don’t have it diagnosed yet. I don’t know if this is what you would consider as managing, but it certainly doesn’t always feel like managing on my end. Top all this off with a sick Father I help take care of and a Teenage Daughter that resents me for everything, just push me off into the deep end. Is it any wonder LO is the perfect escape??
I feel like it’s ok to want to love LO and to never want to wish it away. I also never want to devalue or lessen what I feel for her because I was an immense a$$#0!& in my marriage. Treating a Woman like crap is not in my wheelhouse anymore and especially a Woman of LOs caliber. I’d walk through fire for this Woman. Treat her like a Queen, probably simp all over the place for her, just because I want to be with her so bad. But does make me the pathetic one? I don’t know. But it’s probably not a healthy outlook. Do I love myself enough? I don’t think I do, to be truthful. Something I know I need to work on. Perhaps that too is a turn-off to the opposite sex. After all, who wants to walk around with an Oaf like myself, that has a gray cloud hanging over their head all the time?
I really do appreciate your kindness for what you see as my great desire to be with someone. My closer friends in this forum are always rooting for me and I wish so bad I could bring them that good news at some point. I’m probably more like just a broken record anymore. Always wallowing in self pity and defeat. Kind of like Eeyore from Winnie the Pooh. Yeah, who wants some of that sadness?
In the meantime, I will try to love myself better. Or at least like. Love might still be way too much of a stretch right now.
Thank you again Bewitched, wherever you are. Your words have meant a lot to me. Hope to hear from you soon..
@MJ
Firstly, I wanted to tell you that I definitely was not mixing you up with Adam. All the compliments were definitely aimed at you 🙂
I had only one bout of sobbing about my LO. I found it both the most awful experience I ever had – but also strangely compelling (more of that below). I know what caused it too.
I had worked myself up into a right state beforehand. What had happened was my LO had gone radio silent. I never initiated contact between us so I was confused and dumbfounded for the sudden radio silence. I started having imaginary conversations with my LO in my head where I confronted them about this. My questions started off reasonable, but got more and more upset and dramatic, and I did this ‘conversing’ over the course of a few days. The general upset I caused myself was not helped by the fact that this rumination was waking me at 3am every night and then I’d lie awake having anguished fantasy conversations where I asked LO to explain for the next 3 or 4 hours every night. t might have gone on for longer and worked itself up to a crescendo.
Well, as I now know, stress chemicals cortisol/adrenalin – which I was abundantly secreting into my own system during these conversations – apparently give the ‘pain in the heart’ (or, if we want to be a bit more prosaic, a bit like extremely bad indigestion/heartburn).
Dr L has actually done a few blogs on how there is probably a positive correlation between the amount of rumination/fantasy/anxiety and the tendency to sob. How we work ourselves into the emotional turmoil, in other words.
Anyway, when I had the sobbing fit, I didn’t know that the radio silence was because of a major development. It amounted to a dramatic increase in the barrier between myself and LO. I mean, put it this way, if they *hadn’t* gone silent in the particular circumstances, I wouldn’t have respected them. So it was alright in the end (!)
What I found curious was observing myself during and after the sobbing. When the sobbing finally started, I really gave into it, and was sort of observing myself do it, like ‘wow, go girl’. It felt fricken awesome.
I hope that you found this story entertaining. I wanted to keep things ‘light’ this evening.
To summarise, three things:
1) The level of anguish/sobbing is self inflicted in a very specific way that is related to the level of fantasy/rumination
2) It sorts of feels great to release the tension (at least it did for me)
3) You are still very cool and ‘a catch’ 🙂
Please believe in yourself. Then you’ll radiate self confidence (and other good things including desirability).
Hi All. Closing this thread for comments now. All discussions can continue in the coffeehouse