Limerent reverie – daydreaming and fantasising about consummation with your limerent object – is a habit that almost all limerents indulge in. It is a private pleasure, a secret source of reward, a way to soothe the agony of limerent uncertainty with the carefully staged rehearsal of a dream. No one else is directly affected – no one else could know your inner thoughts – and so it seems like a harmless, risk-free way to enjoy some giddy highs. Or at least a brief respite from the pain of yearning.
Reverie is natural, pleasurable, and doesn’t involve anyone else. Surely it’s safe?
Like any other habit or behaviour linked to something as important as love, reverie isn’t risk free. The risks aren’t immediately obvious, and shouldn’t be exaggerated, but they are real, and are borne by you.
Let’s analyse the worst.
Before we begin
A important starting point in this risk analysis is a clear assertion that you should not feel ashamed about your own thoughts. I don’t subscribe to the idea of Thoughtcrime. It is awful to try and control other people’s thoughts and limit their dreams. Only tyrants would want to do that.
“Think for yourself and let others enjoy the privilege of doing so too.
Voltaire
Furthermore, we can’t always control our thoughts. They often arrive unbidden, and we just have to react. If we start to feel that some thoughts are sinful in themselves, we can become consumed by shame over something outside of our control. As the old adage goes “Don’t think of a pink elephant,” is an excellent way to conjure the image in our mind’s eye.
Telling someone not to daydream is, at best, counterproductive. Stigmatising happy fantasies without an alternative source of comfort is a bad plan. Our private fantasies are ours alone, we all have them, and we all benefit from the freedom to think what we will – to have liberty in our own minds.
With all those caveats out of the way, we still have to confront the fact that limerent reverie feels harmless but comes with risks. As with so much in life, finding a balance between the good and bad aspects of reverie is the trick. Wisdom lies in moderation, and getting the balance right means understanding the risks.
1. It reinforces the limerence
When reverie is used as a primary source of pleasure, it keeps LO central in our minds. I mean, obviously LO continuously muscles their way into our thoughts regardless, but when we actively indulge in affirming daydreams about perfectly tailored fantasy reciprocation, we really reinforce the obsession.
The symptoms of limerence are primarily a consequence of hyperactivity in the reward and arousal circuits in the brain, triggered by a tight psychological association between LO and romantic reward. If we reinforce that association with imagined consummation, we’re basically revving an engine that was already overheating.
It may feel like an entirely positive experience to bathe in the warm glow of an intoxicating daydream, but you are also, unwittingly, strengthening the subconscious link between your LO and emotional reward. You are ingraining a habit of seeking gratification, relief, pleasure, comfort by connecting to LO – even if it is an imaginary connection.
If you think about LO whenever you are away from them, you reinforce the neural pathways that maintain and strengthen limerence. You are literally training yourself into a dependency on them.
2. It distorts your judgement
While it is true that no one else is directly harmed by our daydreams, it is also true that our thoughts do have a direct effect on us. They shape our perceptions, focus our attention, prioritise our goals, cultivate desires, and direct us to action.
Thought is the seed of action
Ralph Waldo Emerson
We may believe that daydreams are innocent, and that we would never act on them, but the defining feature of unconscious habits are that we aren’t aware that they are forming. If you feed your subconscious a diet of fantasies, it can distort your thought patterns and perception of reality. That, in turn, redirects your worldview and may even push you into action you never intended.
Much of our behaviour is driven by habit. We frequently act on impulses that are driven by subconscious desires, and it takes a conscious act of will to intervene and override our programmed behaviour. We might not intend to take action, but our intentions are secondary to the initiating triggers that prompt habitual behaviour. For a dark example of this phenomenon, read some of the accounts on recovery forums for men who became addicted to pornography. Many cite the alarming, intrusive, sexualised urges that seize them whenever they see ordinary women on the street as the point at which they recognised they had a big problem. The images they had saturated their subconscious with imposed themselves on innocent passers-by. Overuse of pornography had made it difficult for these men to interact with women in their normal lives.
Idle limerent fantasies will hopefully not be as psychologically corrosive as that example, but they dwell in the same subconscious fog. Many a reverie-addled limerent has found themselves blurting out an inappropriate comment, getting a little too intimate with their LO, or lying to their partner, before they even realise their impulsive behaviour has carried them over a line.
Our thoughts shape us in ways we aren’t aware of. They cannot be kept separate from our conscious, outward lives.
3. It destabilises your mood
Many limerents, especially those trapped in limbo, know that they cannot form a romantic bond with their LO. For whatever reason, barriers and uncertainty make it impossible to have a healthy, open relationship with them. Under these conditions, it’s natural to feel that fantasies about “what could be” are just a safety valve, a neutral outlet for romantic disappointment, a consolation for unlucky happenstance. We think that we can compartmentalise our daydream scenarios into an alternative reality, where we had made different choices in life, or could escape into a bubble universe, or could somehow run into a wildly improbable twist of fate and be with them.
Unfortunately, our subconscious minds are not sophisticated enough to grasp the distinction between comforting fantasy and desirable reality. If you know you cannot actually form a romantic bond to LO, but indulge in the fantasy, you are basically training your subconscious to believe in a lie. You are anchoring your emotional regulation to a falsehood. That creates cognitive dissonance.
Such a tangled mental knot always causes discomfort. We try to find ways to resolve the dissonance of believing incompatible things, and that can start a snowball effect where we start to doubt old certainties. If we are feeding a desire that cannot be satisfied, we feel distress, and – in a bitter irony – seek comfort in the form of limerent fantasies. Using reverie for mood repair, when reverie is what’s driving the cognitive dissonance, is a vicious cycle.
Living in a fractured state of mentally pursuing one path while physically following another is detrimental to your wellbeing.
4. It erodes resilience
Many limerents would describe their habit of fantasising about LO as a “guilty secret”. It feels like a vice, and they have a moral intuition that overindulging such pleasures is risky. Their instinct is that giving in to hedonistic desires is a bit… sordid. In contrast, self-restraint feels admirable, as it demonstrates the ability to regulate your emotions. Resisting temptation is a virtue.
This ethical perspective on the risks of reverie is most relevant for limerents who are already committed to a long-term relationship. There are, of course, many formal ethical precepts that address the dangers of even imagined infidelity.
Thou shall not covet thy neighbour’s wife.
Exodus 20:17
Biblical scholars (of which I am not one) argue about the meaning of covet in this context – whether envy or lust is the principal issue – but the point is the same. If you harbour envious, lustful, resentful, or covetous thoughts, they will slowly degrade your emotional stability and moral integrity.
Even for those who have no spiritual dimension to their ethics, there is a simple and undeniable reality about resisting unwelcome desires – it’s easier to stop early on. It’s far less of a trial to avoid temptation when you first notice it, than to break a habit of indulgence after it’s become established. Better to not jump in the metaphorical river in the first place, than to swim back upstream once you have been carried away in its warm waters.
Your resilience to limerence will be greatest at the moment of first glimmer. Every subsequent time that you reinforce the habit, indulge in reverie, and move deeper into person addiction, decreases your chance of resisting.
Daydreams are good. Emotional regulation through imagining a better future is positive. But, immersing yourself in limerent daydreams when you know there is no hope of a good outcome is risky. You’re playing with fire.
While the worst impacts will likely fall on you, and your psychological and emotional health, it’s also true that other people you care about could be affected, indirectly. If your daydreaming habit means you fall deeper into limerence, lose judgement, and become more moody, impulsive, and irritable, it’s bound to influence those around you.
The ripple effects of what you hoped were harmless, private fantasies might not be immediately obvious, but they could grow into waves.
“It’s far less of a trial to avoid temptation when you first notice it, than to break a habit of indulgence after it’s become established.”
At the beginning of limerence I had the urge/temptation to ring LO all the time, after I connected with him for the first time, after forty nine years of silence . I used to go for walks on purpose so I could call LO.( I could only call from outside so my SO wouldn’t find out). But I knew it would trap me and I would be unhappy if I couldn’t not connect all the time. I’m greedy! I called one more time and it was bitter-sweet just knowing the barriers were there, so huge although LO enjoyed talking to me . Said it was okay to call. NO, No, no, it didn’t feel okay to me because I felt I was being needy, clingy and I knowing me, I want the whole pie, not a piece, not just crumbs. I’m too proud to get just “crumbs “. I don’t need this. Will never accept that! I know deep inside me that there’s no hopes of anything ever coming to reality of a friendship. I don’t see LO as a friend, ever! He has a SO and so do I. So these phone calls remind me of “husband poaching”. I
don’t like to be put in that place. It’s humiliating to me. Not because of any qualms but because of my pride, value, worth, dignity of a human being; not acceptable to me under any circumstances, not even love. Therefore, I decided to cut it out, after so much soul searching, stopped it for the sake of my own mental health . I came to the conclusion that these attitude would make my mental health deteriorate and that I could stop it now before it’s too late. I trained myself to go for walks without having the temptation to call. Was not easy but I don’t get that”itch” to call when I go for walks now. (only called twice) That doesn’t mean I’m over limerence altogether, but I recoil at the idea of just being a”husband poacher.” If LO was single it would be a different story. I don’t like to waste time on things where there’s no hope or that I could call “mine”, all mine! For me it’s all or nothing, no sharing!
Have a great weekend you all limerents!
I am definitely limerant in the sense that my thoughts are pretty obsessive and invasive. My problem is that I’m not sure whether this is actual limerance or just love. I’m married with two kids in Australia…my marriage has its intimacy problems and has had for many years. Nothing toxic about it, we just have a very hard time connecting properly, don’t make each other laugh much and there is very little sexual or emotional connectedness left. I went to Europe to do a job for 8 months. 3 of which my family came an lived with me. During that 8 months I fell pretty hard into love / limerance with a work colleague. I disclosed that I was attracted, she did not reject me. The feelings were mutual….we kissed a bit. The next day we talked about it and said that we had to slam the door shut on it because we both are in long term committed relationships, both have kids (hers with an exhusband but she’s with another man for the last few years). And more importantly we loved the creative work relationship (film industry). One of the best creative partnerships I’ve had and she feels the same. So, basically I know she has feelings for me…you can just tell. She admitted that had circumstances been different, it would have been different. We parted ways, i went back to Australia for a year then she invited me over to Europe to work on another short term job. This was to be the normalising normalising job where we would re-set and just work together normally as colleagues. It started fine, but by the time the 5 week job was done (now) I am deep in my infatuation again. The thing is when you read about limerance they often talk about it “not being based on real connection or knowing the other person”. But I feel I do know her, understand her, my feelings are of love and affection and admiration. I wish only the best for her. It does NOT feel like it has anything to do with validating my own self esteem….we just click, really click and I can see who she is underneath and I love it….that’s all there is too it. Am i limerant or simply just in love? There’s no doubt I am trying to find in her what I don’t get in my current relationship, but that doesn’t mean I’m deluded. Much of the literature about limerance seems to imply it’s a kind of love delusion…this does not feel like that. Thoughts?
Hi Peter,
That darn chemistry — gets us every time! It’s very likely you are having mutual chemistry and possible limerence. Maybe even in love. Whatever it is, it is certainly reciprocated.
Since you do want what’s best for her, it sounds more like love. But if you are not planning on leaving your marriage, nor her her long-term relationship, it will be a crazy-maker.
My husband and I had a really hard decade in our marriage — not much intimacy or laughter either. We did seek counseling, and a few years ago we had quite a positive turn in both areas. Is there any way you and your wife could try to reestablish that?
I am not saying this will fix your limerence — I am a chronic limerent and have to fight daily to stop/avoid potential limerences from happening — but it may help you feel more fulfilled in your marriage if you both work on it?
Oh, yeah, and you may have to cut off your working relationship with this coworker if you really want to stop the limerence or in-love feelings from getting out of hand.
Just my thoughts.
Wishing you the best possible outcomes for you both! 💙
Hi Peter, welcome to LwL. You have strong feelings for another woman. If you love her then you’ll respect the marriages. You won’t cross socially accepted lines. You might need to make a list of things you aren’t willing to do with her to keep yourself grounded. If you can’t respect boundaries, you need to go no contact with her.
The best thing for her is a healthy relationship with her husband. If you love her, you won’t interfere with her relationship. Also, if you want to be a friend to her, you can’t be a threat to her marriage. Friends lift us up and strengthen us, they don’t tear down our important relationships.
Here is something to add to your list of boundaries
No kissing
Best of luck!
Well, funnily enough it‘s something I thought about yesterday- how ruminating and thinking of LO reinforces in a quite physical and scientific way the neurological pathways of limerence in my brain (sorry if I use the wrong words, I‘m neither at home in English nor in medial language), that it‘s not only thoughts but feeding the addiction in the same way as any other addictions get fed.
I suspect, being on my third post today, that posting here is a kind of substitute drug for me. The question is, does it help me to distract myself from LO and learn something about the whole mess, or does it reinforce my limerence in the same way as other ruminating thoughts about him?
I guess you are skimming all our posts, Dr L- do you think we are prolonging our limerence here and delaying solutions or is it a good thing to post endlessly here like I do at the moment?
Of course it’s individual with each of us, you‘ll say..
I feel that in my case it‘s both- it‘s a way to cling to my LE, to satisfy the need to talk and ruminate about it, but on the other hand I feel some progress in myself, it kind of helps, too.
Hi Mila,
I think I agree with what you are saying. If we are in a really overwhelming LE, thinking and ruminating on the idea and psychology of limerence can be a substitute for ruminating about LO, which is a positive step in the short term.
But perhaps continuing to think about limerence can be a drag in the long term? I mean it is impossible to think about this condition without thinking of examples and anecdotes, and the main example each of us has is our own relation with LO. So I’ve found that occasionally pondering limerence leads back to rumination and fantasies of LO. Is that what you mean?
That’s exactly what I mean, Sleepless.
But there’s still a benefit in ruminating about limerence as a condition and how to fight or understand it as opposed to ruminating about why LO doesn’t answer to texts or if he feels the same etc etc, at least the first could move you forward and lead to some understanding yourself and how to deal with it.
I’m just curious if that still reinforces the habit scientifically spoken?
It would be the best not to allow thoughts about limerence on the whole, but I don’t manage that at the moment.
Every personal situation will be unique of course, Mila, but I think it is a good mechanism for transferring the restless energy of limerence onto a new, healthier, focus as a short-term part of limerence recovery. If I’m honest, the blog only exists because I was looking for an outlet for all the pent up emotions that I needed to make sense of, and exorcise. Sharing our experiences and connecting with people who understand what we are going through is very beneficial for solidarity while we shift into a recovery mindset.
But, as has come up previously from time to time, if it becomes a longer term habit that starts to feel like a new behavioural addiction or coping strategy, then it starts to have a downside.
I would think for most people, moving towards a more purposeful life is the stage at which they would naturally start to engage less with the LwL community – except to check in with friends and encourage those still in the limerence trap.
Dr L,
Thanks for replying!
It‘s actually what I guessed too, but it‘s not easy to discern if I‘m idling here to postpone the real work, or if it’s helping me to get ready to start the real work- something only I myself can judge.
In my first LE, a really severe, disruptive one, I was on an internet forum of my own country on a specific thread, it wasn’t about limerence per se since the term wasn’t known to the participants, but it actually was about it.
I remember reading this thread obsessively, several thousand pages that had accumulated over years. On the one hand it seemed a waste of time and a way to obsess about my LE, on the other hand it distracted me, and among the many persons that posted there there were three or four really amazing human beings, all women.
I learned so much from them by only reading their posts, and I even got in touch with one of them. She really gave me a knock to my head a few times to set me right, gave me a refreshing humorous perspective on my LE that was blown up in my own head to dramatic dimensions etc.-
I‘m so glad for her help!
The forum closed down and all the threads, all the accumulated wisdom is lost.
Only something I copied for myself from the most impressive persons (she was incredibly intelligent and eloquent) remains on my mobile phone, I still read it from time to time if I have to pull myself together…
So even if spending time here can get ambiguous and everyone has to know him/herself if it helps to write here or not, it could be a real lifeline for some desperate limerents as this thread back then was for me.
Also, I remember writing to you an email once when I was in a very dark place in my second LE, and simply the fact that you responded quickly and compassionate, that there was one understanding soul to hear me, helped me to crawl out of the hole.
You might not remember, but thank you for that!
My goal is to turn this LE into a friendship again and after that no more LEs ever.
If I manage that, it‘s for a big part thanks to you and this site.
@Mila,
For me, I’ve reached the point that if I talk about LE itself here, my mind would be sucked back deeper into the past, into its darker colors, which has greatly drained my spirit lately. That’s why I either kept silent or just talking about other general life topics here. Never had a LE with SO around, I find myself unable to share the experiences of you guys who are with SO or contribute anything sensible — not just in theory.
Off LwL, daily hitting the piano keys with my increasingly flexible fingers, sprouting eatable plant seeds indoor, sometimes playing Brain Concentration games, daily physical workout & meditation, no alcohol, sweets, or junk food… have reduced my rumination and melancholy — perhaps 1/10 steps each day. These small, concrete activities just distract an distance the limerence mind whether I intend it or not… Only I could not control my dreams, still tend to be dark but rarely LO or LE related in either directions.
My depression bout could be worse, based on the past experience, but somehow I’m more hopeful this time to rein it, with more understanding of my LE and cptsd.
I hope your realistic activities could distract your ruminating LE mind and come out of there soon…
Hi Snow,
„I hope your realistic activities could distract your ruminating LE mind and come out of there soon…“
That’s indeed my goal for next week. I let myself dawdle too much.
I hope that your joy of life will gradually sneak back to you!
Keep going!
Thank you, Mila,
Joy is two steps away from my current melancholy (better this week than the last one); there was a neutral/numb stage, months or years long, after emerging from the bottom of LE hell in the past…
This time with a clear awareness, right disciplines, purposeful attempts, I hope to rise again sooner from the ash faster…
It’s still a joy to be able to communicate here from time to time….
Hi Snow,
Yes, you’ll rise from this melancholy and soar to the cuspid of the highest mountain! You’re a phoenix!
You keep busy with your piano lessons and all you do to keep you alive and vibrant. Limerents don’t give up. And I know you’re a great fighter.
I love the ballets shows on Stingray Classica, they’re excellent and keep me busy for hours of relaxation and dreaming . I was so impressed with the production of the Swan Lake on ice, by Tim Duncan, I didn’t move not for one second, that’s how enthused I was. What a wonderful production, excellent! Kept me stuck in ecstasy all the time. Just seeing the energy, the movements, the music, the costumes, wow, wow, wow! And “The Bayadere” they are superb, and transport me to Cloud nine, making me to travel on time and space! It’s food for the soul!
Be good to yourself always. Hugs
Been feeling heaps better over the last couple of months. About 1.5 years with Limerence, but feeling it was losing its grip on me. Finally. Fell into a deep black sink hole today. Try again?
Hi Camilla,
Relapses and set backs are inevitable, unfortunately. Accept them with a smile of grim recognition, get back in the saddle, and keep trying. The good news is that recovery from a setback is generally quicker and longer lasting each time you manage it.
But, also take it as a prompt to look at the other circumstances in your life that might be making your subconscious seek out the old need for comfort from limerent fantasies.
Introspection time…..we are getting close to Christmas break, there will be a pause in work relationships, and as usual, too much stress, worn down by it all, too much left to do. Feeling needy and unsettled. And distressed too. There just is no easy exit/transition time to the holidays and down time. And it gives me an ache and a hollow feeling of emptiness. I know I need to fill it with interesting things to turn it into a better feeling/experience, and that my validation shouldn’t come from external sources, but a life time habit is hard to break.
Hey Camilla George and ABCD,
Don’t be too hard on yourself!
This time of the year is very stressful, paired with the expectation to be happy and cosy, which adds to the stress enormously.
No wonder the LE lifts its head again.
You don’t have to switch suddenly to happy and fulfilled by purposeful activities in a moment.
Maybe accept that yes, it is stressful and too little time, and seek little moments of feeling better day for day, a nice coffee, getting one Christmas present off the list, a walk, whatever.
But actually I’m not the right person to advise because my mood and limerence go up and down like crazy, maybe some old hand here knows better how to cope…
@CamillaGeorge.
I can totally relate to your situation. Just the other day, I wrote a message in one of the other forums on LwL that I was feeling better with regards to my LE, and the need to seek her (LOs) validation was reducing, leading to an upward boost in my spirit. However, there was a recent “cold” interaction, and I now find myself in the hole. I will pick myself up and try to get out again, and take this latest setback in my stride. In my case, unfortunately, NC is not possible, and I keep bumping into her now and then. Need some serious mental strength to get through this.
Would appreciate advise from the other wonderful how I can get myself up again, and what steps I can take so I do not keep falling in the hole. If only NC was possible. Thanks!
Your experience echoes mine. Busy/cold/not a priority is what I feel/hear. NC is hard and not possible. Wish I could evict that mind parasite!
@CamillaGeorge.
For me, I can live with NC, and feel that it can work for me. However, it just is not possible, so I need to focus on LC, and manage it as best as I can. Wish you the best!
ABCD hi,
I’m sorry you’re backsliding with your LE and looking for validation from her again. It’s time you recognize that you’re a unique, precious human being, who is wholesome and wonderfully created. That not even you can validate you, you’re wonderfully made, no comparison to no one else; for no one else is better than you. When a person is looking for validation from someone else is because they have some problem with self esteem, they feel they are not good enough for LO. They feel LO is better. Hell no, she’s not better, she’s got her own issues which you don’t know. So, pick yourself up and keep saying to yourself, as a mantra: “ I’m enough, I am adorable and worthy of love, I don’t need LO’s validation to satisfy my inner self deficiencies, I’m complete and in peace with myself . I’m grateful for who I am , and no one, absolutely no one can devalue me, no one is better than me, I’m strong and will be victorious in this fight, I’m a conqueror and I’m celebrating it right now!”
Keep saying positive things to yourself to train your mind and change your way of thinking. Invest in new clothing, hairstyle, go to the opera, ballets, shows, museums, sports, the race track, etc, just get busy, meet new people, etc. IDK , but do something, take baby step towards your new life, dream of it…. Remember LO,s are not worth our time and energy, they’re just a fantasy, an object, and you are strong enough to not let this “thing” control you. Fight the monster, yes, you can! Tell it: “BE GONE.”
Best wishes.
@Nisor.
Many thanks for your support. This is what I am saying to myself right now – that I do not need validation from LO. I was doing pretty well and making decent progress before this backslide. Anyways, I guess this comes with the territory. We should be aware that slip ups can/will happen, and need to keep moving ahead. I am doing some of the things that you mentioned, to take my mind off. Will report back on the progress. Thanks again.
Just about everything here resonates with me currently. Things aren’t terrible about LE but they certainly aren’t great by any standards. I continue in modest amounts of LC by default and only see LO sometimes going into or leaving work. She hasn’t been making appearances in my building lately. Which is too bad. I miss the hell out of her but it’s out of my control.
It doesn’t stop the rumination or the fantasizing because I can get easily lost in thinking of how glimmery perfect I still see her. Just watching her walk to her car is almost like seeing something Holy. It’s a feeling that no other one person in my life has ever affected me in this way. This leads to some serious feelings I get caught up in and then come the tears. This has been the norm for me for the longest time. So much that I feel like it would be unfair to begin considering seeing someone else.
As of late, I have been casually (on purpose, mind you) trying to run into another particular lady I’ve been seeing around at work and pondering some pleasant moments I would like to consider. We know each other from passing in the corridor over the years. She seems friendly but she’s not quite glimmery.. Yet.. Which leads me to wonder if any Woman will ever glimmer for me like LO. This Woman is not LO by any stretch but she is far from unattractive and seems very sweet and nice from what little we’ve spoken. At times I feel like it would be unfair to consider starting something up with her, while I still get something gratifying from my LO fantasies. How obtuse kind of thinking is that? I mean this is where I’m at. A fantasy that seems more real and possible than anything. A fantasy I adore. Fantasies that I will write poems about and read them like sacred scripture. Because every LO thought is just wrapped up in so much emotion and perfection. Not even sexual really. Just a love story I’ve created in my own mind that feels so f&$%@!g real and true. That leads to actually crying real tears. Such insanity!!
Yet I would rather not consider meeting up with a real actual Woman, just because of all that reverie I give into the LO fantasy. It feels all too good to give up right now..
Hi MJ, I would say just talk to her and talk to other people too male and female, push yourself even if it feels odd or forced. The interactions will hopefully give you energy and interest in new people and perspectives, then whatever that leads onto or not. Dont think of any end game target. You aren’t looking for a new LO who will be the perfect glimmering JLo who will declare her undying love. Just a nice interaction that may lead somewhere or not at all. Go for it. Socialise and push yourself to do so will be rewarded…
Thank you IMHO. I’m considering it, one day at a time.
@ Mila.
Thanks for the support. I do realise that the LE will not turn itself off like a switch, and that the recovery will be in small steps. This feels like a setback, but I have experienced that I always end up feeling better. So, I take this in my stride and march on.
Someone told me “when you say something you are repeating something you already know but when you listen you learn something new”.
I’ve been inside my head about a lot of things in life. Planning scenarios and reactions to everything from the inevitability of my parents death to if we have another child (which is near impossible with a vasectomy). That’s just what I have done since childhood; always living inside my own head.
The trap here in thinking about her in my head as it may start out as “innocent” things. What would I say if I ran into her again by happenstance? What would I say if I ran into by best friend from high school again by happenstance? Both seem like something that should be orchestrated in my head so I don’t say or do something foolish. What would I do if something bad happened to her? What would I do if something bad happened to my wife?
It seems something that you are preparing for. It can’t be bad right? You are not having romantic reveries so it can’t be that bad right? You are only emotionally preparing yourself for situations that actually could happen; not the chance of a romantic encounter with her. What if we could all (my wife, her, him and myself) get along and be friends?
All I can say is that these kind were the last of the intrusive thoughts I had. Justification was in that I wasn’t seeking a daydream that would fill a romantic role with someone I shouldn’t have. As in “thou shall not covet thy neighbors wife”. Unlike Dr L I WAS raised with thought control. Coveting another woman was equated with adultery. The mind and the flesh both have to in line.
But those thoughts are still so close to rumination that it’s like a recovering alcoholic standing in front of a liquor store and not feeling tempted to enter. You can only tease yourself for so long (for us limerents with LOs with barriers) with “crumbs” as Nisor stated above before you want a slice of the pie. Possibly the whole thing. And while I don’t like pie as much as Dean Winchester, sometimes I get a sweet tooth, and I have to train myself not to eat the “pie”. Because both pie and “pie” are not healthy for me. (Besides I like ice cream better when I get a sweet tooth.)
I don’t really see a distinguishing difference between the time I once would waste (still do?) in online chat rooms (like CityData, BabyCenter, etc) and indulging in limerence fantasies. They both readily zap my productivity and, I know this is a “your milage might vary” sort of thing, but neither have resulted in meaningful life-long commitments of any sort.
Life lesson: Consume each sparingly!
I am comfortable with a little limerence fantasies (and online chatting I suppose) after I realized during a heavy episode with LO #1 back about 8 years ago that there will come a time where I am simply too old and without energy to have any limerence. Limerence is a bit of a consequence to being youthful or having the youthful energies of life still able to pass through your mind/body. We have to be healthy enough, without suffering or performing better than just surviving in order to look for comfort of, or consummation with, a potential new mate. So I think there is something to appreciate about being in this state. Cautiously of course. I guess I’m a cup half full sort of thinker these days and I certainly have a sense of humor now. Similar to the jpg-comments in this blog (clever and delightful)… I’m convinced that in all that we endeavor as moral-aspiring humans we’ll have an easier go at it if we laugh at our own flawed human nature and work to value the silver-linings.
Thanks for that, SJ!
You are absolutely right, limerence is also a sign to be alive and well enough not to have consuming sorrows of another kind.
And me, I should be grateful to have such a carefree life that I can spend time here and worry about someone who clearly appreciates and likes me very much but doesn’t meet my limerent expectations- what luxury.
Here! Here! Cheers to our good health and anxiety-inducing LOs.. And may they never actually discover the fullest expanse of our awesomeness! 🙂
I’ll drink to that..
Bottoms up.. 🥂🍻
Cheers to you both and our awesomeness that exceeds anything our LOs might want in their life;)
I‘ve had two coffees already this morning and will have another one later which is far too much for me.
Good morning to all, have a beautiful day!
Hi MJ, SJ, Mila, Adam, and others. Its a beautiful day here – nice and sunny, think I will make the most of it, and go for a run later today. Lets enjoy and celebrate ourselves, and create some happy experiences!
A propos run-
Lovisa! I went running yesterday, as I said💪🏻and I honestly just went because I told you I would, because it was -6 degrees and I was tired.. although I got the pain I usually get the first time I go running after a long while(tense or shortened muscles on the hip/leg, was even worse due to the cold I guess, but should go away the next time I go running) it was quite exhilarating to run in the cold.
Have fun running , ABCD!
Mila, you are amazing! I am so proud of you for pushing through the cold and pain. Woohoo!
Let’s talk about pain. There is good pain and bad pain. I love good pain because it puts me in my body and I know that my muscles are improving. As an endurance athlete, the bad pain takes a toll on my attitude. The bad pain comes from injuries. It sounds like your pain is normal for you and not something to worry about which is great news. Here is some information about pain management and running. It’s just my thoughts.
PAIN MANAGEMENT
For pain management, I use Yoga and a physical therapist on YouTube. My favorite of his videos is below.
How to fix IT band knee pain FAST -the right exercises for better results. By Jared Beckstrand of Tone and Tighten
https://youtu.be/c9uPHuLtkZI?si=A8dShWHNIEOKHXma
I rarely use pain meds. I learned this lesson the hard way. I injured myself and used pain meds so that I could run even though I was injured. My injury got worse and worse until I couldn’t even do 1 mile without pain. The pain meds worked so well that I didn’t realize I was making my injury worse. This struggle lasted for almost 2 months. I quit pain meds so I could feel my body and monitor my pain. That helped, but I was still doing short runs. I couldn’t do more than a few miles because of pain. I tried Jared Beckstrand’s video “How to fix IT band knee pain fast” and the pain was gone in a week. No kidding, one week. I did the stretches from the video 1 to 3 times per day and the strengthening every other day. I continued with the video for about a month after recovering. I also do these stretches whenever I feel like my hamstrings are tight.
Keep up the good work, Mila! I want to hear about your next run.
Thanks Lovisa,
will watch and use them!
At the moment I‘ve got some general problems with tense muscles and blocked vertebrae so it’s no wonder I would get some issues when running, but these stretches look good and I’ll add them to my stretches.
Mila, I think tense muscles are the good pain. I’m concerned about your vertebrae. Do you know how to manage it? I get trouble in my low back sometimes and I do 2.5 minutes worth of stretches to “reset” my SI Joint. It’s magical! I’m sending that video, too. I don’t know about vertebrae problems, but it sounds serious.
“IMMEDIATE RELIEF! Fix Sacroiliac SI Joint Pain -Self Mobilization” Tone and Tighten
Minute 6:25 -8:55
Supplies: stick, belt and ball
https://youtu.be/_wTx2YP8gtg?si=Daha6sOMO4P-EUFc
This one is for strengthening. I don’t do these exercises, I usually just do the stretches.
“Stop SI Joint Pain for Good! Exercises for Sacroiliac Joint Pain Relief” Tone and Tighten
minute 4:40 –
Supplies: resistance band
https://youtu.be/EWkP6ymZL4U?si=8o1lwz4TcnkD8CRo
Hi Lovisa,
Thanks so much!
Haven’t had time to look into it, but I‘m sure it’s helpful.
I‘ve got a job that isn’t good for the back generally, and I do too little to counteract it (is that English?) so I get regular problems with vertebral blockage- nothing really severe, tense (and too weak) muscles cause little joints at the vertebrae to lock, cannot explain it better, sorry…
My problems are mostly in the upper back, but lower gets affected too.
I went running today again, a short run, as expected the hip/leg pain didn’t occur again, but I‘m taking it slow and made a doctors appointment for Monday for the overall tension and constant blocking I’ve got at the moment…
That is great news, Mila! Taking it slow is wise. I hope the doctor’s appointment goes well. No problem at all if you use or don’t use the videos. They help me, but they might not be a good solution for you.
To all limerents:
You’re ordered to:
Get off the doldrums, get out there and enjoy the season!
Celebrate each day, it’s happy time! Be creative , happy people attract the right people to your side. Smile , a big wide smile! Doesn’t cost a thing. Reward yourself with a little thing, a nice warm pair of socks, maybe flowers, some salts for a bath, a bottle of wine, a Christmas decoration, chocolates, etc. Reward yourself for being a patient, loving limerent…WE Cheer for our good “qualities/attributes” that no one else recognizes except ourselves. And like ABCD says: “create some happy experience.” People who loves people are the happiest people in the world!!! Happy Holidays!
Thanks Nisor, ABCD, Mila..
Appreciate the love.
Grateful to be here..
😉
Hello everybody. Needed your advise regarding how to manage my emotions with regards to LE. The goal obviously is that one cannot/may not be able to stop the limerent thoughts, but that the thoughts as such should not cause too much anxiety/sadness. We also know that we replay past positive LO interactions in our minds to feel good, and when we think about the negative/cold LO behavior, it makes us feel not good.
Here is what I am struggling with right now. Whenever there is a negative interaction/experience (real/perceived) with LO, like I get the feeling that she is avoiding me (perhaps all in my head, perhaps true, who knows), the low feelings start. However, when there is a positive experience with respect to LO, or if I am replaying a large number of past positive experiences when I am feeling low (I know I should not, trying to minimise it), I feel better.
In addition, I am also struggling with social media, trying to see if LO reads / likes my posts. Social media, as such, can become an addiction. Throw LO in the mix, and it becomes 10X the addiction. There is this particular common social media group that causes a lot of distress.
So, as such, the way I feel is like a sine wave – good / bad / good / bad, and so on.
Hope I am making some sort of sense.
Would appreciate any advise I can get.
ABCD,
I‘m afraid you speak for all of us, and I think Dr L would shrug his shoulders and repeat „purposeful living“ for the hundredth time..
We have to get out of LO interaction regulating our mood. Maybe it’s nothing we can do in one sweep. It’s normal that positive interaction with LO causes good mood and negative a lower mood. But maybe we can gradually lessen the curve of up and downs by finding something that lifts our spirits even when interaction wasn’t great, so that we don’t plunge into a hole- still feel disappointed, but can pull ourselves back by something else.
Sports, music (though that’s dangerous terrain for some), other friends or other interesting people we might like to get to know, alcohol, cocaine (just kidding)..
I don’t know honestly, searching for it myself.
I start to suspect that there might be the need for a decision involved, as Rainbowbrite once wrote. That there‘s no passive sliding back to health by doing other things (something I hoped for) but forcibly deciding to take the mind off LE and just stop it, and a sort of daily grind to keep the head clear by following other habits.
Sounds dreary, though.
Sorry I cannot help more., we are in the same boat.
I‘m a bit more lucky, maybe, because my LO is such a steady loyal contact. He doesn’t do up and downs , he‘s reliable, not like my last LO. That helps somehow.
But then, it makes it harder to find fault with him and reduce feelings.
You are using limerence for mood regulation. Ironically, it’s not regulating you, it is giving you ups and downs. I recommend that you take esteemable action, in other words, do something that you can be proud of. Remember that baby steps in the right direction get you to your destination. Do something good today. Do the right thing no matter how you feel.
Dr L and Mila are right that purposeful living seems to be the cure for limerence. Also, you aren’t going to like this, but stop daydreaming about your LO. Seriously, find some way to distract yourself.
I believe in you, ABCD!
Hi ABCD,
Sorry, I can’t remember your specific story with LO, but I certainly empathize with your emotional struggle. Been there so many times.
Right now, I am in a mild wave of my LE. I still have intrusive thoughts and desires for LO but they don’t feel so distressing. For me, it comes down to practicing some fairly strict LC. I’ve coined it “Ignore and Avoid”.
I have to interact with LO face to face on work matters but I keep fairly disciplined at not talking with her about anything personal. I have reached a point where I just don’t care, she has her life, I have mine, and we can go our separate ways (cue Journey). I have thought a lot about being her friend, and at this point have decided against it. The more I get involved with her personally, even on a friendship level, the more my LE flairs up.
As far as social media, that shipped sailed long ago. We used to be connected and I dropped her, and a few months later she dropped me. I have no social media connection to her and this is preferable to me. I don’t need triggers in my life. If dropping her seems harsh then I suggest you hide or mute her.
I personally like to categorize things so I came up with an LE distress scale from 1-5. Distress level one is mild longing. That is where I am now. I have spent a lot of time in distress level 2 which is acute longing, which sounds like where you are at now. The goal is to stay in distress level 1 and for me LC seems to keep me there the best. I don’t know if you’ve practiced strict LC ever with LO, but it sounds like it’s worth a shot.
Good luck!
I read the book. Thank you, Dr. L, for publishing this. And I know there is no “cure” for limerence, as I have had these issues literally since I was a child. Now, 40 years old, married for 13 years, three beautiful children, I am honest when I say that I still struggle with limerence. Now that I know what my triggers are — handsome, Hispanic, single, ENFP men, it feels like a daily battle to chose “no contact” because they are the very men that make me as an INFJ feel alive!
So I try to make myself remember all that is at stake — my Christian faith, my spouse and my children. I feel like limerence is a “thorn in my flesh” and I have asked God to take it from me like Paul did in the New Testament, but God does not. As a Christian woman I have to trust that God’s strength is made perfect in my weakness. I have come to accept this as a life-long battle, and I pray that my knowing my triggers will help the daily battle of fighting it, and not giving into it.
L.N.
I was raised Christian, though I do not practice any particular denomination presently. But throughout limerence, thanks to my parents insistence that I read the Bible everyday for as long as I lived in their home, I remember “God will not tempt you beyond what you can bear”. And all I could think is “really God you sure about that?!”
I hurt my wife, our oldest son (not sure how much our younger one knows) and myself. All for a woman that didn’t even know what I was going through or had any interest in me other than the secular interactions that we had. Despite all that I am on the better side of limerence. I still have challenges that I have to face. But I have done NC for the last year and half, have kept away from her social media for the most part, and rarely have intrusive thoughts anymore. Based upon what my wife relates to me, I have not spoken LOs name in my sleep, as I had previously done multiple times. If one would say I could get here when I was in the grip of limerence I would have laughed.
You can do this L.N. It sounds like you have a wonderful family and husband who is by your side. And you have your faith. All those things will give you the strength to get through this. And we are all here for you when you need a place to talk or vent. Good fortune to you L.N.
Thanks, Adam, for your response. Now that I know what my triggers are, there’s a part of me that I have to fight to not start a bunch of nonsense with those very types that I like. This is my current inner turmoil. My husband is a good man, very loyal and faithful, but he would not truly accept or understand limerence as a “diagnosis” for how my brain works. So I do talk to close female friends, friends who try to wrap their brains around it, and that has been helpful.
But ultimately, I have learned my brain is not my friend. Now that I know what my triggers are, I see them all around! So it’s a mental and emotional game of playing “no contact” with any of these particular men/coworkers.
I am happy to say that I feel I live a fulfilled life, a purposeful life. I adore my work, my kids, my family, my friends, my alone time, my spiritual side, exercise. I try to remain balanced. I feel the Holy Spirit guide me in my life, and I sure I am not lacking.
But when you come out of a limerent experience, where the highs are so high for months on end, it’s easy to feel like life is so basic and dull without that dopamine hit.
God’s peace is always better though. There is nothing better than His peace. Yes, the highs are high, but the lows are so painfully, heart-wrenchingly low… however, I feel great comfort in His peace. That is the best weapon I can use to fight this thing.
“My husband is a good man, very loyal and faithful, but he would not truly accept or understand limerence as a “diagnosis” for how my brain works. ”
L.N.
My wife already suspected something was off by my behavior. She voiced her concerns and suspicions long before I even knew what limerence was. This is the first time it has happened and hopefully the only time. So when I learned of limerence from this site (earlier this year; my limerence started in early 2021), I disclosed to my wife what was happening to me. Due to her suspicions it seemed only logical to tell her what I learned. But I can’t imagine what it might be like for a spouse that is in the dark so to speak.
The only trigger that I might suspect in my case was that many months after she left and moved on to another job I realized that in many ways, looks and personality she reminded me a lot of young lady I attempted to court (long before I got married) that I was very much in love with. It didn’t work out the way I had hoped and she was the first woman to break my heart. But I think the striking similarities between the two women snapped my subconscious awake and then here comes the limerence. Otherwise I have to chalk up my limerence as happenstance as I can’t pinpoint a one time trigger other than the above or a common reoccurring trigger to watch out for in the future.
“I am happy to say that I feel I live a fulfilled life, a purposeful life.”
This is what I am working on now to keep any chance of future limerence at bay. My wife and I are at the point where our oldest son is moved out (20 years old) living his adult life, working and going college. Our youngest is 17 and will start his senior year of high school next year. We are both at a point where a lot about our life has and will be changing. Their dear mother is taking it harder watching our boys grow into men. Understandable I guess. Me, I am quite proud of the men they have become. At least I did at least one thing right in life. Hold on to your faith and I am sure it will work for you in your future battles.
I’m a Catholic convert of two years, but I would say my understanding of the Faith and Scripture has to be 2, possibly 3, standard deviations from normative Catholic perspective. For example, I still retain and nurture the belief that religion is fundamentally what evolutionary biologist, Bret Weinstein, calls an “extended phenotype”, an extra-somatic macro expression of DNA. I have to confess that I value the Faith more than I actually believe in it. Or rather, I tend to believe in it as containing metaphorical truths, (though truths nonetheless), imbued with timeless wisdom that we are woefully rejecting to our collective detriment (another topic, another blog). At the same time.. I shyly admit I’ve tapped into a sense of mysticism and recently believe that God answered this exact prayer (and oh how I begged and pleaded that He would!)… a few months ago I decided to quit my job to escape both my PA and LO #3 (two different coworkers) and took a 2 day train trip to put literal distance between myself and these men. I am interested in the religious life and brought along a collection of journal entries of a Trappist monk named Thomas Merton to occupy the several hours we’d spend without any cell phone signal. Now had realized I was going to read of a vowed religious’s intimate affair with a young nurse, from start to finish, I would have avoided him altogether, but there I was, a captive audience, Holy Spirit dictating that this was the book I needed to read.. so… I accompanied Merton through the discovery of his LO, the kindling of desire, watched it expand into a flame and journeyed with him as he inevitably experienced fiery eros with his young lover -I was fine with this- but Merton didn’t remain in erotic bliss with her (when he could have!). Instead he retreated and I didn’t want him to: I wanted him to throw it all away and start life anew with her as his young bride just how I had wanted to throw away my life and start fresh with LO#3. I felt dejected and sober walking away from the fire with Merton and I mourned deeply as I began to project my situation onto his … eventually I took as much as I could handle and put the book away for good. I only read about his affair and didn’t absorb any of the spiritual insights Merton is known for. Go figure! But I guess that’s what God had in mind because after a two week trip I ended up keeping my job and my coworkers, though the workplace dynamics have reconfigured themselves completely … I’m truly able to stay away from the PA without any sort of struggle and my feelings towards LO #3 have evolved out of limerence. For the last 6 weeks I’ve been sustaining a love without expectation or hope (or even desire) and that doesn’t require reciprocity. I cannot believe it. St Thomas Aquinas, Doctor of the Church is credited for this definition of authentic love “To love is to will the good of the other”. This is a simple and subtle statement, but very important. Most often when we love we expect and we assume that what we expect through love is good for ourselves and others too, but not always and certainly not in regards to limerence. It’s an interesting thought experiment (another topic, another blog). But I ought to wrap this up and say simply that I’ve achieved this “purer”, or orderly love with LO #3, who really has ceased to be an “object of limerence” for me. I can confidently say that the limerence is gone and I guess I have to say it even though I don’t understand: Thanks be to God.
So, Speedwagon, SJ did it and made it, this unselfish love- maybe it is possible!
I‘m not at all religious though, but the idea of this kind of love feels right to me and hovers all the time just out of grasp..
If this is what you feel strongly about then give it a shot. I guess one of my questions is what does ‘unselfish love’ look like in real terms? What relationship actions on your part will exhibit unselfish love towards LO?
For me, I see unselfish love as just an extension of my rescue fantasy with LO. I assume she needs or wants my attention or affection. But LO has never really exhibited any behavior that suggests she does. So in some regard, practicing unselfish love with LO is actually just the act of leaving her alone, which is what I’m trying to do. I know for myself that I cannot initiate interaction with LO without being in the default mindset of pursuing her. It is too engrained in my LE. So, unselfish love then, no matter how noble it sounds, is just another fancy tactic for getting my limerent fix.
Speedwagon,
maybe it’s the difference in our situations that makes it seem possible to me and not to you.
Real actions to practice this would be in my case seeing him and his SO as a happy unit, enclosing them both in my friendship, being a faithful friend to him, somebody he can turn to, but nothing more. Which also means leaving him alone in some aspects.
In case of my first LO unselfish love would have been the wrong strategy altogether, the best was, just run🙈
Also, I think you are clearsighted to see that it doesn’t work in your case. Maybe I’m not clearsighted enough, or more accurate,not strong enough.
Speedwagon hi,
“…practicing unselfish love with LO is actually just the act of leaving her alone, which is what I’m trying to do.”
Speedy, I feel the same way as you. My love for my LO cannot be replaced with a friendship. Cannot fool myself. So, the best I can do is “to leave him alone” , that is: I renounced to my desire to pursue, or replace my love for a camouflaged friendship . LO will always be a thorn in my life, and the best thing to do is to give it up, leave him alone and try to forget with God’s help, His grace, and asked Him to give me peace of mind.
He’s done it before and will do it again!!!
Courage and strength to you.
To me unselfish love is doing whatever is best for the one you love no matter the consequences to yourself. In my case maintaining NC and letting her move on with her life. And then turning that love to my wife and loving her unselfishly no matter how long it takes for her to move on from this event. I made the pain that I am in with both of them, now it is time to pay the piper. Perhaps this is why I have found myself wandering around in God’s neighborhood recently.
Speedwagon, I appreciate that you are willing to represent the other side in this matter. I agree with Adam. We are capable of loving our LOs unselfishly. It is what I strive to do with everyone I encounter, including my LOs. The way I show love for LO2 (who has gone back to being just a friend) is to show up consistently in the friendship. I respond to texts, I laugh at jokes, I offer support. The way I show love for LO3, is that I recognize that his family is the best thing for him and I try to never distract him from his family. I encourage him when he posts pictures with his family by saying things like, “Cool that you and Mrs LO3 had some time together. She has a beautiful smile.” Or, “I love that picture of you with your son!” I also give him space when he wants it. Those are just examples.
Below is a video about the difference between relationships and love. I think it explains unselfish love very well.
“Love is wanting the good for the loved one without any regard for the self.”
“If love is wanting the best for the loved one, you can only want a relationship with the loved one if a relationship with you is literally the best possible thing for the loved one. Let’s be real, it probably isn’t. Wanting the best for a loved one means sacrificing the self and the possibility of a relationship.”
“LOVE has NOTHING to do with RELATIONSHIPS: setting the record straight”
Orion Taraban
PsycHacks
https://youtu.be/QF4xjfiesXY?si=IIXuZb1FsRIIkWEH
@Lovisa
I think what you are saying sounds good and noble. I guess I just question how well it works in actual practice with an LO if your definition of unselfish love means proactively “being there” for LO and meeting their needs when and however they need them met. To me it just feels like another method of perpetuating a limerent fix. You can disagree, but this is my experience.
Speedwagon and Lovisa,
I think you are both right.
I don’t think this kind of unselfish love is possible in every situation, and not when in the height of limerence. In the height of limerence, one should do whatever is necessary to get off this height, and to jump from this height to unselfish love is not feasible.
It’s only feasible under certain circumstances, and with certain persons, but then it‘s of course the best that could happen between people.
Perhaps I am seeking limerent fixes and lying to myself that I am unselfish . I don’t know. I’ll be pondering this.
LO3 says he is a better father, husband, brother and mentor since he began interacting with me. I don’t think he’s lying. I can see it in his pictures. He didn’t like taking selfies at first, but now he does it just fine. He has a year’s worth of selfies with his loved ones that he took because he wanted to show me. Now he has those pictures forever. He wasn’t good at smiling in pictures last year, but he’s getting better at it. I think there is value in those things. I think I am a good influence on him when we interact, but the dark side is that he is attracted to me and he says sometimes he lets himself daydream about me which distracts him from his family. I can’t control if he is daydreaming about me. I don’t encourage it. Other than that, I think we have a healthy relationship.
LO2 gets lonely and depressed in his marriage. His friend says that I am the best remedy for his depression and loneliness. I think that’s pretty cool. Why not engage and lift his mood?
But maybe you’re right. Maybe all this is just my way of getting attention disguised as altruism. I’ll think about it.
Thanks Speedy!
Mila, you are right that if a limerent can’t handle interactions with their LO, NC is the best course of action.
@ Lovisa
I think it works for you because you really are past limerence with LO#3. You have said so yourself. I’m not there yet, interactions with my LO still trigger distress, longing, desire, and general low moods in me. I want to say I can unselfishly love her but I just can’t. I have argued with myself at times that I should but now I just recognize that as bargaining with myself for more limerent fixes. For me, as much NC as I can muster is my best path forward right now.
Since limerence is person addiction … well if there is one thing I know about it’s addictions.
I started smoking as a teen. In my mid 20’s I went to snuff. In 2010 after 10 plus years of tobacco I quit. For a long time I never partook. In the last 7-8 years I have become more of a social smoker. I smoke a few with my wife on nice summer evenings while we sit on the porch and talk, or use her vape. I can take it or leave it.
Miss Lovisa and he are respecting the boundaries for which they themselves have set in place and are comfortable with the level of interactions that they have. He maybe attracted to Miss Lovisa, but he respects that it is not something he can act on. Miss Lovisa respects his family and encourages a strong bond between him and his wife and children. Even if it as a byproduct gives her attention as well. In the end it works.
Now I can remember when our boys started coming out of the toddler age and started growing to school age. I decided I wanted to set a better example and change my drinking habits. I found by trail and error that no matter how much I told myself one drink wouldn’t turn into ten it did every damn time. I admitted to myself that I didn’t have that strength of self control and realized if I needed/wanted to stay sober that evening it would be no drinking at all.
This is why to pull my limerence down I have (and knew I had to) go NC and maintain that under all circumstances. She visited the office about 2 months after she left and she called me while she was there and there went my limerence. I had to fight very hard after that to not initiate contact.
I think that is where you and I are similar Speedwagon. Like my drinking; just a taste is a enough. And when we get that taste we want more. And more. And more. So better to not have a taste. Better to not stock a bottle in the pantry. Better to distract ourselves with something so we don’t reach for that taste.
They say some people have addictive personalities. I’m not sure I agree with that and makes me feel like it’s a cop out. But maybe it is true. Maybe there is more to addiction than just a lack of self control.
Speedwagon, you make such a great point. Also, let’s not forget that I don’t have to see my LOs regularly. I can’t even imagine how hard you have it. Thanks for arguing the other side. I think you’re right.
Adam, you make a good point, too. It’s true that LOs are drugs for us limerents. And Speedwagon pointed out that since I don’t feel like I am limerent right now, my perspective is different than a typical limerent. You guys have given me a lot to think about, thank you.
Mila, I just returned from a lovely trail run. I hope your running adventures are going well.
This is so interesting and I want to reply to Lovisa. Something troubles me about your situation and it could be my own issues being triggered.
It seems like you might unintentionally be enabling these married me to be dependent on you. From what I can see your heart is in the right place. No you can’t help if someone fantasizes about you but could being unselfish mean distancing yourself from him? Yes he says you have helped him but aren’t there lots of people God could bring into his life to make him a better husband etc. that he’s not attracted to? Also, it just doesn’t sound like you or what you’ve stated your values are to be the best remedy for a man’s depression and loneliness in his marriage.
You might not be limerent but it seems these guys might be for you. Are you trying to rescue them? Would you want another woman that your husband finds attractive having the same relationship with him that you are having with these men? Could you still have mild feeling for them and get a hit from their attention? Just some things to think about. And please know this comes from someone who made so many wrong choices during limerence. You seem like a very caring person who would not want to get in the way of someone’s marriage.
Beth2, I think about those things often. I share your concerns.
I try not to cause problems for my friends. The situation with LO2 is so sad. I feel like he copes the best way possible. He is a religious man. He “waited” for marriage. Like most men, he thought marriage meant socially acceptable sex. Unfortunately, his wife’s libido has been a problem since day one. He regularly goes months without physical intimacy and sometimes years. After 29.5 years of marriage, she finally learned how to have an orgasm so she has been more willing in the past few months. We shall see how long it lasts. I’m going to be honest with you. Her selfishness makes me so angry that I don’t really care if she’s jealous of me. I see what her lack of concern does to LO2 and it is infuriating! I am not the only person in our friend group who thinks she is abusive towards LO2. LO2 thinks she doesn’t care about him because she might be autistic. I don’t know if she’s autistic, but I am furious that she treats him the way she does. I am aware that he hides our friendship from his wife. I am the CEO of an engineering company in his contact list, which isn’t true. Oh well. He has to hide male friends from his wife, too. If our mutual friend texts LO2 when his wife is around, LO2 has to hide it from her. She doesn’t even want him to have male friends. Oh that woman makes me so mad!
Would I mind if my husband had a female friend like me? I don’t think I would mind. I think I would like her because I wouldn’t know that her kindness came from feelings of attraction. I might get suspicious, but if she and my husband benefit from the relationship and they practice good boundaries, I don’t think I would mind. There is a woman at my husband’s office who I like a lot. One time my husband was having a stressful day at work (I happened to be there) and I noticed how he seemed relieved after he talked to this woman. It’s like a weight was lifted off his shoulders. I appreciate her for being kind to my husband. She is our age and pretty, but I don’t feel threatened by her, just grateful that she makes my husband’s work life better. Another company tried to steal her, and my husband was stressed about losing her for a few days. We were both relieved that she stayed.
I pay close attention to the LwL men about what behaviors trigger them. I try really hard not to trigger my friends, but I’m sure I do sometimes. But, even if I trigger feelings of attraction in my male friends, as long as no one is acting on those feelings, does it matter? LO3 told me that he values our friendship enough that he is willing to live with his feelings of attraction and continue to be my friend. I think that’s unselfish. He isn’t perusing me. He shows up as a friend regardless of how he feels.
Sorry for rambling on and on. Thanks for your thoughts, Beth2. Yes, I think/worry about those things often.
Do you know who we could ask? Momma. I wonder how she would feel if I were friends with Adam outside of LwL. Hmmmmm
To be clear the goal isn’t to be unselfish but to will the good of the other. I will say it again: Will the good of the other. At some point during my work day my LO will find me and report (or show photos) of what he did yesterday after work, his workouts, what he ate and often he’ll show me a couple fabulous real estate listings (house porn is a mutual interest). Occasionally I get to hear stories of the past (he’s nearly 60) and it’s a pleasure to hear them because they capture an era that will never happen again. I think the man struggles tremendously with anxiety and perhaps with OCD and I know following routines, including interacting with the same set of people, gives him a sense of security or control. In addition, he has some sort of early onset dementia. So I’m always on the lookout for this when we interact. I’m following his well-being in a similar fashion as when I’ve worked with vulnerable adults (former CNA/caregiver/hospice volunteer) and I’ve been very attached to many of my clients and ailing friends. This is the direction my relationship with LO #3 has evolved and I’m delighted by it. I find that I’m my best self in this context and I’m glad I get to be this person with him. So you see, it’s very selfish of me! 😉
SJ, hi
I’m glad you’re turning to God for help and guidance . I’m a believer myself and put all my trust in Him. He’s been my counselor, help and friend all along my trials. Indeed there’s a tremendous treasure of truths that are time tested. All shall pass and come to an end but His Word will remain.
“I shyly admit I’ve tapped into a sense of mysticism and recently believe that God answered this exact prayer (and how I begged and pleaded that He would!)…”
Yes! Indeed He answers to all those who seek Him meekly and with a sincere heart!!!
John 7:37 Jesus said: “ If anyone THIRSTS, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.”
He was speaking of those who believed in Him would receive the Holy Spirit. (The Spirit of truth and discernment, so you would be able to communicate directly with God.) This is Holy ground!
You keep yourself connected to Him and He will lead you to green pastures and make you rest by still waters!!! Peace to you!
Quote for today:
“I guess the real fact of the matter is…
We don’t know what tomorrow will bring, and the only thing we really have is…right now. So don’t stay mad for too long, learn to forgive and love with all your heart. Don’t worry about people who don’t like you. Enjoy the ones who love you.”
Amen and thank you! I may always have my doubts, but nothing beats the warm and fuzzies I get with staying in the battle of faith. Blessings, SJ
SJ,
I agree, the goal should be that it‘s good for both on the long term- Adam‘s description „To me unselfish love is doing whatever is best for the one you love no matter the consequences to yourself.“
didn’t sit quite well with me (sorry Adam), because oneself matters as much as the other person. What the limerent self wants isn’t necessarily the best for me. It‘s no use to anyone including LO if I sacrifice myself.
Indeed, Mila. Getting out of limerence, in my opinion, doesn’t involve unselfishness that has the intention of diminishing oneself, which is how I also interpret Adam’s statement. No, no.. it’s quite the opposite: Instead one must expand themselves, their sense of being, beyond one’s own physical body and bodily needs and/or beyond the context of the present moment. It’s being extrasomatic… identifying the parts of ourselves that exist in the other people (or things) and in other moments and incorporating these expressions, to the best of our ability, into the boundaries of the present. I don’t have to be chained to a particular ideal future with LO #3. I’ve fully internalized that we’re not ever going to be soulmates or lovers, but I’m glad we still get to have something that’s still gratifying today.. and you never know! Often these sort of relationships that develop in middle age have more endurance and depth than young, romantic ones. Except I’m planning to move across the country in a few years. So maybe not this particular one. Ha!
SJ,
beautifully put. I’m not there yet, I have to say..
Big question, if some relationships survive a move…but if your LO is someone who needs routines, you could build up a routine of texts, emails or calls. If you want to, that is.
My all or nothing is for my own good as well as her’s and my wife’s. When I learned about limerence I thought if she hadn’t left could I have held on to a friendship with her? And while I then I thought that I could and hoped for that. I now see that wouldn’t have been possible. Like some of my other addictions, it has to be all or nothing. I could not carry on a healthy friendship only getting one aspect of her. While I honestly had no desire to have a physical relationship with her, I realized I would just want more and more of her and would get myself into the same hole I am in now. So my definition I posted earlier is more a personal definition than one I would attached to other people’s relationships.
Adam,
I’ve not decided yet, could be I’m also an all or nothing type but haven’t realized… still struggling, so maybe you are just one or more steps ahead of me on the winding road of limerence.
I don’t find myself contemplating and discussing hypotheticals anymore but at one point I did, a lot, with my therapist, best friend and husband. LO #3 used to verbally complain, about once a month, about not having someone to take care of him when he got old because his partner left him, he never had kids and his one younger sibling died recently. Late last month, about a few days after he disclosed his dementia (I had suspected since shortly after we met) I approached him with an offer to be a support person if, or when, his condition progresses. I told him that I’m in a unique position to be of help… I’m financially independent, have a lot of autonomy and I’m a skilled caregiver with experience working with cognitive impairment. This is all true and had been discussed, in detail, with the three individuals above. Everyone was onboard and in some sort of tentative agreement. Yes, even my husband. My vision of the distant future was that we’d move, I’d stay in contact with LO, eventually becoming more like family and could be counted on to be a caregiver, at least as a secondary support, but I’d be willing to be the primary. My therapist actually had to fill this role for the secretary in her church office who didn’t have anyone as she was dealing through a terminal disease and she knows my background and so she hasn’t been surprised or concerned that I’ve come to this place with LO… So… I envisioned being able to come and go, infrequently but as needed, and eventually (I’m assuming this is progressive like Alzheimer’s) spending last months – up to a year- mostly living with or near him. Now keep in mind, please, that I’m a middle-age woman… I think some people here are still quite young and have fantasies of living out several life stages with their LO but that ship sailed after LO #1. For this same reason -my age- my husband isn’t all that concerned either. He has only two requests. First, that his needs, should he develop any, take preeminence over any other and secondly, that I keep sexuality confined to the marriage bed (and even here I found there is room for error!). But I don’t think LO intends to accept the offer… even though for months he said he has nobody -Nobody!- when I talked to him about it he said he actually has a few close friends and younger cousins that will help him… so there you go. That’s where I’m at with LO and I’m glad I made the offer, but I don’t hold any attachments to the results and it’s been fine. I wouldn’t say things are worse or better because of it. Maybe now he knows that I actually take what he says seriously and he needs to be mindful of this in our interactions. He hasn’t moaned about his old age alienation this month and it’s certainly overdue.. maybe he’s cured! :).
Hello everyone,
New to the limerence blog, not new to LE. I’ve lived a very long time without a word for what this destabilizing force was. I realized I’ve been a limerent for as long as I can remember due to childhood trauma and such.
My most recent LO was a year long total descent into madness. At least now I have words, definitions, and a guide map for rescue! Thank you, Dr. L!
As a human (I think?) that has practiced Buddhism casually for a long time now, and is also aware of the overwhelming/reaching importance of habit, I have a question about habit, intrusive thought/OCD, and first waking up. My habit with most recent LO was to immediately think of them upon waking. This was encouraged by dreams of this person.
In an awake, conscious state I can apply the breaks, but in a blurred just awake state it can be harder to rewrite that habit. It’s something akin to waking up with them on my mind before becoming fully aware that the thought form is dominating my first few moments of awareness.
Some of this (I assume) is due to dreaming of them.
So a question: if rewiring the obsessive nature of the LO focus is a on-going practice, will that transfer into the dream state and lessen the dreams?
As the starvation cuts off the intrusive nature of thinking about them, will it transfer to less dreams of the LO over time? I think the progression of less thought time given to LO will equate to less dream time also spent on them. Dreams are strange, sub-consciousness brain stuff, though. Not sure one leads to the other.
Do lucid dreaming techniques have any sway here? Not saying I’m good at lucid dreaming but if changing daydreams in to daymeres helps, I wonder if one can actively work on changing dream states into nightmares until the LO is starved of mental energy even in dreams.
My apologies if this seems silly or far fetched.
My goal is to starve my most recent LO into oblivion while also understanding and being mindful of glimmers. This plan seems to be the first aid kit to finally get beyond a lifetime of limerence and into the present moment of life.
Heath, don’t worry your dreams will slowly dissipate if you train your conscious brain not to think of your LO. It’s hard work but will slowly pay off and you will gradually get free! Never give up! You’re fighting for your sanity and you will succeed.
Dear Adam,
Thanks for your response. I should probably mention that the first time I had a limerent experience while I was married was 7 years ago. Like your wife, my husband did notice something was off… but I think my experience was more of a friendship turned attraction, and the man said he was in love with me. At the time I felt the same. Though nothing physical ever happened, I felt in love, and it started to show. When my husband found out, he was enraged. He thought I was having an actual affair. A part of me thought maybe I’d had an emotional affair. I didn’t know it was limerence. Once I decided to not leave the marriage, I told LO and after time we no.longer saw each other and he left my workplace not long after. I’d say the whole ordeal lasted a year or two, from start (friendship) to finish (no more intrusive thoughts of him.) I figured it was an isolated incident borne out of the difficulty of our marriage.
Fast forward six years, post counseling and things going so much better… and a very handsome coworker starts striking up a friendship with me, and down the road starts complimenting my hair, my eyes, etc… I didn’t think much of it until he started to touch my elbow or hair… I think he started the limerence and it was mutual. From start to finish, again two years.
My husband noticed changes again, but my confidante recommended I not tell him while I worked it out. In this case, I am glad I didn’t. I was able to learn about limerence toward the tail end of our crush, and I learned this was a person addiction.
I wish I could tell my spouse, but I know it would crush him again. I want to preserve our marriage. I know God knows, and my close friends, so that helps.
L.N.
Your first L.E. sounds much like mine in a lot of ways. My wife too suspected I was having an affair of some kind as well. Be it a PA or EA. I did not know what limerence was at the time so there was not much I could do to “defend” myself. It didn’t seem like even an EA to me then because it wasn’t deliberate on my part to start the crush. It just happened. I had known her a whole year almost before the glimmer even happened. So it wasn’t a deliberate act on my part or hers when it happened. Thankfully she too left the job about a year after the glimmer saving me from myself.
“I figured it was an isolated incident borne out of the difficulty of our marriage.”
Same here. We are going through a lot of changes. Our boys are growing up. One is out of the house and living with roommates and going to college. The other one starts his senior year of high school next year and we are both going through mid-life in our own ways. So there are a lot of changes going on in our marriage and family life and took the limerence as being easily distracted by another woman.
It has definitely made a permanent mark on our relationship but my wife has chosen to move on from it and continue to try and make it work. She was quite obviously upset and somewhat skeptical about limerence when I found out what it was and told her. Which is understandable when your husband is explaining to you why he was enamored with another woman. A much younger woman. But as I said she has chosen to stick with me and we are going to work this out somehow.
After 20 plus years of being an agnostic, though being raised Christian, here recently I have been to a church two times. I wonder if this limerence has been a epiphany.
Dear Adam,
I am so glad to hear that this incident is having a positive effect on you. How did you feel at those church services? How is your wife in that aspect?
My husband and I both serve at our church. I was not raised as a Christian, but felt the need and the leading and dedicated my life sincerely to Jesus when I was 22. The limerence, both times while married, certainly were trials I grew through. The second time threw me into a tailspin because my mind was at war with wanting to not feel these feelings, and be an adultress. I was so overwhelmed. But God has forgiven me of so much, and I have learned to forgive myself too. Now that we know it is our own brain doing this, in a way it is a relief to know it can me managed. But I do rely on God’s comfort and words for that. I hope someday you will, too. 🙂
There is a young lady here on LwL, Nisor, that has always encouraged me in the word of God, to find a church I feel comfortable at. I was raised Jehovah’s Witness and have never been in any other Christian church. I married an outsider. That in the end prompted me to abandon Christianity. And since has left a bitter taste in my mouth as regard to God and religion.
I was greeted as a known new face both times I went to this same Catholic church these past few weeks. People talked to and welcomed me both times. It felt nice that I wasn’t seen as an outsider or blasphemer.
My wife is pagan but she supports me in this rekindled interest in religion. She just wants me to find the comfort she does in the meaning of life the way she does. She’s seen me for so long adrift in restlessness, bitterness and anger at God and religion for so long that I think she doesn’t particularly care what religion it is as long as it makes me happy.
Though I don’t think Catholicism is for me. May try something new tomorrow.
Adam hi,
“the young lady” ha.
Yep the young lady is stuck in her 20s to 30s for the last year and a half…
If anything, limerence gave me back my youth to think about !
I’ve always had a young buoyant spirit . If your spirit is dimmed you’re doomed to live a sorrowful, regrettable life. Put on a happy face…
( how did it go with your visit to the old building?)
Here’s some words for you:
“A little more sparkle, a little less stress,
This Christmas, I wish you the best.” Hugs.
How exciting for you! If you ever need to talk to a person who loves the Protestant faith, I am available on the forum. I have researched and read a great book called the Kingdom of the Cults, and am rereading Mere Christianity. My faith is not of the religious sort, meaning I do not pray dead words to God or do dead religious stuff. It is more like a constant communication with the Holy Spirit. Anyway, I am here if you ever need a sounding board.
I really like Walter Martin. I read Kingdom of the Cults. I had a series of cassettes by him on different topics.
If you want to read another great book, I recommend “The Holiness of God” by R. C. Sproul.
A simpler way to God and understanding our purpose in life :
Book by Rick Warren,
“The Purpose Driven Life”.
I haven’t read that one.
About 25 years ago, I was on the church council. I bought copies of Warren’s The Purpose Driven Church for everybody on the council and we went over a chapter every meeting.
Sadly, it didn’t seem to sink in with most of the members and one member left the church over it. He couldn’t get past that Rick Warren is a Baptist and thought there was nothing we could learn from a Baptist.
I suggested that we make the two parking places closest to the entrance, reserved for the Pastor and church secretary, be reserved for for visitors. It never went anywhere.
Dear Limerent Emeritus,
It is sad when there is division in the church. I suppose I prefer the nondenominational type because I believe the church is a body and there are many things to learn from various denominations. I try to keep it simple; it seems that’s what Jesus wanted! What have you learned from your limerent experiences? How has your faith played a role?
Hi, LN,
We’re drifting into some space probably more appropriate for a coffee house. Maybe DrL can make a Potpourri Coffee House for peripherally related topics.
“What have you learned from your limerent experiences?” – The biggest lesson is that my limerence was rooted in an insecure attachment with my mother, the glimmer that attracted me to my LOs reflected her, and my LEs were an attempt at an emotionally corrective experience doing for another woman what I couldn’t do for my unhappy, alcoholic mother as a child. I like Attachment Theory!
“How has your faith played a role?” – I’ve always knew that God was with me. He has to love everyone but He doesn’t seem to like everyone. For some reason, He seems to like me. Blessings aren’t the absence of trials, blessings are the ability to meet and transcend those trials. I didn’t get to where I am in life because I’m good at things or lucky, I got through trials because He delivered me and blessed me.
True stories:
#1: Less than two years into our marriage, it looked like my wife and I weren’t going to make it. One Sunday, I woke up and knew where I had to go. I came down stairs, dressed and ready to leave. My wife asked where I was going. I told her that I was going to church. She asked why? I told her that’s where I needed to be. She asked if she could go along. I said that would be great and we started our return to faith.
I was raised as a Lutheran. I thought if I’m going back to a Lutheran church, I should probably read up on their confessions. So, I read them all. Luther has a scriptural basis for everything he says. I personally don’t agree with some of his interpretations of things but I wouldn’t want to stand before God and argue with Luther. One of my friends called me a “closet Calvinist.” So, since I can’t refute Luther, I attend a Lutheran church out of tradition. My German Lutheran grandmother had a lot of traditions.
Q: Why do we sit on the left side of the aisle?
A: Because it’s on the right hand of God.
#2: The second time it looked like my wife and I might not make it, about 15-20 years later, I was re-examining a lot of my life choices. A lot of them centered on if I’d made a mistake in giving up on LO #2 and going with my wife. We were sitting in church one Xmas eve with our two kids and all I could think about was why I wasn’t there with LO #2 instead. That’s how bad things were.
I’ve also been around long enough to learn that when something doesn’t go as planned it might not be because it’s an inherently bad plan. If it’s not working it might be God has a different plan. It’s happened too many times and in ways you wouldn’t believe that convince me.
Did those help?
DrL,
My apologies for going OT.
Dear Limerent Emeritus,
Thanks for your response. My intention is never meant to be off topic from limerence; it’s just that, for me, faith and limerence are so intertwined that I cannot separate them. 🙂 I am working on my limerence through the lense of Christianity. It is refreshing to hear others’ experiences through it, too. Thank you!
Limerent nurse,
Limerence is a real thorn in the flesh alright! I think it’s placed there to wake us up to the spiritual. That is: we struggle with the flesh versus the spiritual. Good vs bad, darkness vs light, truth vs lie, etc. That’s why it’s so hard to discern, it’s camouflaged with pleasure and highs to only let you down and crushed . We don’t know what to do because it’s so powerful it blinds us and confuses us to the point we don’t recognize ourselves at times with the silly unbelievable things we do! Behaving like frightened children! It’s as if an unknown evil force has taken over your life! It all amounts to far more suffering moments than happy ones. Is it worth fighting for it, feeding it, when deep inside us we know it will not last, or work out, so much doubt and so much confusion, staying in limbo land? It’s like martyrdom or masochism!!! We know better than that! Yes, I know, it’s hard to let go of the illusion…
Religion and limerence are like Adam. If Lilith was his first choice and he complained to God; is Eve what he wanted? Or just what he thought he wanted?
Because I’d been far more limierent for Lilith than Eve. And I don’t mean Bebe Neuwirth. Though I’d sin for her still.
Ha ha ha 😂
Oh no …. waking up to your own drunk postings. Hopefully you will be as gracious as Miss Lovisa in forgiving me. She’s seen a lot of them.
Still though, I’d take Lilith over Eve any day.
Adam, Adam, you’re at it again!
hahaha. Eve was designed to order specially for Adam. Supposedly , there were no other choices. So it was Eve or stay single. ( and it costed him a rib!)
Have a sober day! Hugs
I did go to a different church yesterday. It was a bit out in the country and I got lost and turned around, so I was a bit late. But now that I know where it is I am going to go again this Sunday and be on time. It was a nondenominational Christian church.
It was a nice sermon that was given. It was mostly about seeing what God is doing in us whether it seems that it is a negative or positive outcome. Faith is something I have lost a lot of. I don’t think it’s going to be easy getting back either but I think I want to at least make the attempt.
They had a nice hymn following the sermon. The woman singing had a very beautiful voice and I waited after the sermon to tell her and thank the gentleman playing the guitar for the song. He was really skilled. I didn’t talk to the man that gave the sermon. But I did talk to one of the members, who, during prayer reached out for my hand even though I think she knew I was “out of my element”. She asked me how I found the church and I told her I found it in a google search, and why I was late as I got lost looking for it, because it was outside of the city in the country. She was very welcoming. I don’t really know what for sure I am doing but I think it is becoming my way of finally taking Dr. L’s advice and living purposefully.
So happy for you, Adam! Can’t wait to hear more about your journey ✨️
Bravo Adam, you keep on trying until you find the one you like best. The one that can feed your soul. If we get that area covered you’d not feel alone, ever. The church I attend is a very joyous and alive one, drums, piano, guitars etc. The worshipping is great and the sermon provides good food for the spirit. They also bring pastors from other countries around the world to preach and give their own perspective and word they perceive pertinent to the congregation. After the service/cult we have fellowship at the church cafeteria to have coffee and a bite to eat. It’s like family reunion . It may not be the perfect one but I have no other choices here.
The Book says you need to congregate…
Be strong and take courage. Hugs.
Well, while we’re on the topic of famous limerent objects, don’t even get me started on mine (Diego Luna and Riz Ahmed). Just give them my number, and let’s see which one calls first. 😉
I’m a big fan of Stephanie Thompson. Its why I watched Arrow and NISC with my wife.
I remember her telling me its a Bebe Neuwirth episode when she would watch Blue Bloods.
Now on to my venison burgers I made for my son and I. His mother won’t eat them. I need more though. Down to three pounds of ground venison. I got to find more. I can’t kill but I can eat. Such a hypocrite. Hopefully the mounds of jalapeños on my burgers wont kill me.
Hi Adam,
I don’t understand:
Venison- “ I can’t kill but I can eat. Such a hypocrite.”
Why a hypocrite? Are venisons an endangered species? If not, of course you can eat it. God gave us dominion over the earth to kill and eat everything it’s there. As long as you don’t kill for pleasure.
Have a wonderful day. Enjoy this beautiful season! Hugs
Hi all,
I am new to this site and to learning about limerence in general.
I have always suffered from ‘romantic fantasies’ – preferring the beginning stages of a relationship to the long-term familiar. I recognise that I have sought my ‘alive’ feelings from this.
My current LE is very painful indeed. I have been married for 11 years – the longest I have ever been in a relationship and I am 45 years’ old. My husband is my heart; I know that sounds corny but it is true. I cannot fault him. He is the person that I turn to in times of trouble and he is solid as a rock for me – something that I have always wanted but have never had. So why do I still crave romantic adventure? I remember before this LE started that I was craving a mutual crush – I had one before five years’ ago but it was not as painful as this one.
My LO works at the same place as me and avoiding him is virtually impossible. I suspect he may be mutually limerent, but that could just be my drunk limerent brain talking, however I have always been good at picking up on other people’s vibes. This is the thing that keeps me stuck. I know this is taking me away from my SO and the present. I have wasted a year in this state and yesterday was a particularly painful day, so bad that today I am looking on the internet for new jobs. My job is very unfulfilling anyway, there is hardly any work to do but it has always suited me because it is laidback, the people are nice and it fits in with my lifestyle. However, I am going to have to break that find something that keeps me busy and finally say goodbye to this LE.
This is the thing that scares me the most: Finally saying goodbye. When I have gone LC before it has caused LO to almost hunt me down for interaction with me, which of course gave me a high and put me back to square one. But I cannot carry on like this; it is so painful. I am not even sure what it is I am writing for here, I guess just to introduce myself and vent. The thought of a new job feels very frightening indeed after five years in the same comfortable role with people I like. I have had jobs in the past where I have worked with awful people who enjoy making people feel bad (i.e. bullies) and this is the first job in 20 years’ where I am well respected, held in high esteem and liked. I am scared of going out of the fat and into the frying pan (i.e. I leave the painful limerence behind but end up in a role in an environment like the ones from before).
But I guess what I am most scared of is fully letting go: I am in limbo here. I tell myself I am going to ignore him, go LC but if I am being honest with myself, I know it gets him bothered and sparks his panic and gives me validation.
I am not sure what else I can bring to my life to attain the ‘alive’ feelings I get from romantic chase. Nothing else seems to match. That sounds really sad doesn’t it? I have a full life: loving SO, active hobbies, a Batchelors degree I am carrying out, friends, family, good social life etc. I am not sure what the missing piece of the puzzle is?
I am also addicted to feeling attractive to men. God, that sounds awful. But especially now that I am in my 40s – it feels like this will not last much longer and I need to enjoy while I can.
Anyway, if you have made it this far, thank you. and if you have got any pearls of wisdom that would be great.
Hi Lisa. Thanks for sharing your story. Many of us are in your boat, going through an LE where NC is not possible. Also agree to the part where we are trying to go for NC, then LO pulls us back in (or atleast we think she did), it really does take us to square 1. I feel that I have experienced this as well, and it is frustrating. It would help to be easy on yourself, slip ups can happen now and then, but to be committed to getting over LE. In our midlife, it is natural for us to want to experience the thrill again, but try to find this in other activities, like exercising, picking up a musical instrument.
Plus, try to stop/minimise thinking about LO in your daily life. Whenever you do need to meet LO, try to keep things as professional as possible.
The high you get on perceived interest from LO may feel great, but it will almost always be followed by some sort of low.
I think if you do decide to change jobs, it would be hard in the beginning, but the strong emotions will definitely stabilise over time.
Sorry, cannot offer much help, as I am going through a lot of these things myself. Am trying to follow the advise I have received from all wonderful members on these forums, hoping for better times.
Hi Lisa,
I can relate as I was always prone to romantic daydreams etc, and seem to need some limerent episode from time to time to feel alive.
Me too, I‘ve got everything I could wish for, and actually I’m happy, but LEs still happen.
I ask that question with you, what is it that lacks in my life that I need limerence? Maybe nothing is lacking, maybe it‘s an ingrained habit. Maybe we just trained it on us for years.
And I agree, being the other side of 40 doesn’t help.
Dear Lisa,
I really relate to your feeling “addicted to feeling attractive by other men.” This has become an issue since my last limerent experience. He made me feel so beautiful. It also probably has something also to do with my libido finally kicking in again when I was 38. I am getting looks from men whom I too find handsome, and it is rewarding.
BUT at the same time I do not want to start any more limerent experiences, so my mind, body and soul are trying to play it cool and not make things worse! I am sort of in the thick of it now as there is a particular person my limerence wants to transfer to. My logic and heart are at war with my limerent brain! The glimmer wants to happen! I am fighting it off with a bat!
I may not have any pearls of wisdom but I am here to help, to listen, or be a sounding board along with the rest of the group. 😀
Lots of mid life mess for a lot of us here. For those of us in a marriage or LTR hitting our mid life we ask ourselves a lot of questions. And I think one of them, despite being in a committed and happy relationship, can I still catch a fish? A natural, albeit unwanted, reaction to aging. Do men/women notice me? Am I still desirable? And that is the exact moment when you either make the right decision to look at your relationship or go bask in the warmth of someone else.
Miss Lovisa explained it for us middle aged limerent men that the reason often that an LO is much younger is because the mind sees younger women as more fertile than women older. It’s part of evolution (or God’s design, whichever is your belief) and not something that can be turned off just because we are an “advanced” civilized species. Maybe that is the case with women too, I can’t say, as I am not one. Maybe so since LO’s gentleman friend she chose was younger than her.
Than again for men (sorry I am not offering much help directly to you ladies) throw in a rescue complex and you got a ticking time bomb of middle age waiting to blow up in your face. Some of us are worst at it than others. For me it played a big part.
And people said when I was young puberty was difficult. No I’ll take that again over mid life. In puberty I never did detrimental things to my relationships.
Hang in there ladies. We are all always here to listen and offer any help you need. Ya’ll got this.
Hi all,
Am also new to this site and gaining more limerence knowledge. I have had two LE’s in the last three years. It took me about 16months for my first LE to finally shut off…but then i got a geographical shift to a new town, away from my emotional support system. This made me so lonely that i craved so much for a social connection with someone i really liked. It was so hard for me to like anyone at first because i built walls that i didn’t want to break for anyone but still craved for an emotional connection. Then came my second LO and after two weeks i new i was getting into another LE. I tried so hard so seek reciprocity from them but all to no avail because all they offered was friendship and i knew deep down I couldn’t be friends with them. Throught the past week i’ve been thinking of how to let them go until we had a big fight(not physical) yesterday because i got so emotional…my LO deleted my number but i find it so hard to let them go. I couldn’t sleep last night, thinking how difficult it was for the first LE to end. I am literally crushing. I can’t enjoy the things i normally enjoy I haven’t been able to focus on anything else meaningful rather than thinking of them and it hurts me so much because i know am better than this but its just so difficult. When i think again of how long it took for the past LE to end i cramble. I am 27 and single though i have two potential lovers who are really interested but I can’t find it me to reciprocate their efforts. I have no one who can really understand this ‘limerence’ thing cause everyone i talk tells me to be strong and i dont feel like they understand fully what i am going through
I don’t know if this is of any help, but I had 3 LEs and every time it got a bit easier. Maybe the LOs got nicer, but I think I got better at handling my feelings and getting a bigger picture of the LEs.
So don’t be too afraid to go into battle against this LE now, it doesn’t necessarily have to be as hard or as long for you as the first time around.
Thank you for this. I suddenly feel better after hearing that it doesn’t necessarily have to take the same timeframe it took to overcome my first LE. I am getting into battle immediately, one day at a time.
Hi Norby,
Welcome to the site! I know it’s hard for you. It’s been a hard road for many of us, too. We do understand and we do support you. All I can say is it’s a bit of a tunnel that you have to go through until you get to the end. There’s very little we can do to speed up the process. Your LO already “gifted” you with no contact, so it should help with your progress, in theory. No Conact is hard, but it is the only thing I have found to ever actually work.
The problem with limerence is that if you have it, there’s always the potential for it to start up again. What I did when I was feeling better was I did some soul-searching to find out what triggered my own limerent experiences. Once I did that, I felt like I had the skills and felt empowered to prevent it from happening again.
The difference is, I am married and want to protect myself and my family from destruction. Since you are single, you now have the chance to protect yourself from this in the future ✨️
I hope this helps!
Thank you so much. This is very helpful. The no contact is trully a gift as now i know for sure they are never going to contact me so can’t be checking my phone to see if they reached out every now and then…i feel really better now than i was when i posted my first comment. Having people you know they understand exactly how you feel is a big boost. I am going to do the soul-searching of my own to understand my triggers. Till then i am not going to get invested into a new relationship
Hi all 🙂
I recently found out about this blog and I find it very useful. It all started with my confusion and my need for finding some answers and closure. What I experienced looks exactly like limerence at least from what I have read so far and based on how the limerence has been described. 5 years ago I met a guy and felt this instant connection between us. It was like love from first sight, all started immediately, it was so powerful, so intense that I couldn’t even believe it was real. I thought that I have finally found my soulmate. The chemistry between us was unbelievable, the sex was perfect (or it was the only connection between us, still not sure) and everything was a big fairytale until the things started changing very quickly. He become emotionally distant, stopped answering my messages, started ignoring me and/or disrespecting me, saying some very hurtful stuff and totally degrading and devaluing me. He started contacting me only on his terms, only when he is in a mood and we started seeing each other only when he decided to initiate it. I was already deeply in love with him and I couldn’t believe that this was happening, I was struggling with the cognitive dissonance which I was experiencing. The same person who was so loving and carying was treating me disrespectfully and neglectfully. It was very hard (and still is) for me to understand how this could even happen. However, we had a romantic relationship (or at least I thought we had one) for almost a year. It was very painful staying in this situation, but I already had these deep feelings about him and I couldn’t even think of leaving. Long story short, he dumped me and started seeing some other girls, posting happy pictures together etc. 5 years later I still have these deep feelings, but it’s not just that, I can feel that it became an addiction. Each time I receive a message from him my heart starts beating faster and I have this gut feeling, which I confused with love for many years and now I know that it’s anxiety. And despite all of this and the fact that I go to therapy I still feel this bond between us even if we do not communicate at all. I went no contact for 5 years..and it is still there. I realize that fantasizing about him gives me some dopamine rush, but even if I know on rational level what is all about, it seems almost impossible to stop thinking about him. I like everything about him and I am craving his attention, validation and approval. Five years later I still have the butterflies in the stomach each time I see even a picture of him and I hope that one day I will see him and I will be indifferent. Thank you for sharing this content, as I wouldn’t know that there is such thing as limerence, if it wasn’t this website 🙂
This headline article is one of the best of many I have read.
I am however unattached and totally limerent at the moment; towards an unattached woman I will call Luna.
I suffered from it about 20 years ago for 7 years with another woman who remained unattached over that period [I declared my love to her] and felt like it was ripping my soul apart and I swore that I would never jump in and get swept away in that ‘fast flowing water’ again.
Maybe it is harder when there are no ethical obstacles in the way to encourage you to climb out?
Truly traumatized by the experience I had been sexually and emotionally abstinent since.
After knowing and being attracted to Luna for about 2 years I briefly let go of my feelings for her one evening 3 months ago whilst weakened by alcohol, jumped into that river again , and can’t get out now; and it feels like I am in the same place as last time but this time fully aware of all the agony that lies in front of me.
I went to a therapist over it recently and she recommended that I overcome my childhood fear of rejection and abandonment [got that in spades for good reasons] and I suppose keep jumping into fast flowing water; until I get lucky?
As Dorothy Tennov makes clear I think in her book it is an experience that has to be suffered to be understood and there is no way to intellectualise or psychoanalyse yourself out of it.
I was a limerent object myself about 10 years ago for over three years and have been re reading all the Emails she sent me over that period to help me with a different personal perspective?
I made it clear to her from the beginning that there was no hope with me and tried so very hard to be kind to her as well as exaggerating all my faults.
I think limerent objects need advice as well.
Hi Remus,
I am sorry to hear this. You said that you “jumped into that river again, and can’t get out now; and it feels like I am in the same place as last time but this time fully aware of all the agony that lies in front of me”
Do you think that your prior experience and the awareness of what limerence is might help a little this time to overcome limerence?
As a first-time limerent in my middle age I am still coping with the pain and fallout of my first LE for the past several years but I feel that being aware of what is happening to me in the latter stages of this and knowing that I am literally training my brain on him, helps me to un-train my brain again. I don’t think that I would fall into another LE after this, or not as hard, because now I am aware that it is all a work of fiction created by myself. What I really need to do is work out why it happened to me, then address that instead of wasting time on this LE. Certainly, you seem very aware of your own vulnerability due to your childhood experiences and this is something that is difficult to address, but still, I sincerely hope that this is possible for you.
The “love yourself” mindset is so important, developing your own self worth and being open to appreciation of your place in your work, community, relationships, as a citizen of planet earth (whatever works for you). If you are three months in to this LE, you may still be in the euphoric stages, whereas, you know that later on it all gets super-anxious, self conscious and horrid. Perhaps you can try to avoid those painful later stages by minimising the reverie/self medication in the early stages of limerence?
At the same time, it is so important to take care of yourself, to compensate for what your brain will feel like it is losing.
Hi Bewitched
Yes you are correct that understanding what is going in this [advanced internet] time is helpful.
A] It will be a Darwinian survival of the fittest biochemical/ hormone process encouraging or driving you to pair bond and imprint. Probably working inappropriately in our modern culture.
If you deliberately work up a strong fantasy as an experiment you can physically feel the stuff flooding into you bloodstream.
It is probably exasperated by the capacity to imagine or fantasize; where you can
fall in love with a self generated and false sanitised image of your object.
In childhood trauma you spend a lot of time escaping into a wonderful inner imaginary world so it can probably become a bad habit as far as this limerence is concerned.
As you never see inside peoples heads you will always be in love with a perception of them. How accurate that is depends on the honesty and sincerity of the object who may even be self delusional about themselves and your own capacity to critically appraise the object.
And being generous and tending to see good in people becomes a fault.
[My GP whilst on a checkup referred me to eventually a child psychologist at the age of 3-4. ]
B] It happens to all sorts of people and not just the ones who have read Wuthering Heights too often.
Although it is possible and helpful to see the funny side of it sometimes
I was a 33 year old ish ‘senior’ scientific officer [forensic analytical chemistry] of a large manufacturing company and a crisis had evolved at work that I had predicted in good time and warned about.
On the eve of a big meeting with customers of which I was key, I told my first limerent object Julia that I loved her; the two events were probably psychologically connected.
She panicked [apparently] and I melted down, turned up late and still drunk the next day and sobbing locked myself in the toilet in the R&D block and wouldn’t come out.
The following 2minute clip and whole limerent episode is funny, thoughtful and interesting as; feckless shock jock misogynist falls in love.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd8tsMqllu8
I fully sympathise with how bad it must be having a limerent experience with someone inappropriate. However I fully analysed and understood why I was in love with Julia, I regularly saw her over a period of seven years she was and still is a wonderful lovable person.
I tried fictional transference to get over her. Started to fantasize through association about a tv starlet ‘young Saffy’ from Absolutely Fabulous.
My Julia looked like and behaved like her and was actually about 25 year old playing a 18 year old.
I think it helped to muddle and confuse the bio-chemistry.
Went fully limerent on Luna at 10;45pm 31/1/2024 felt it happening and ran out of the room 10 minutes later, she was annoyed at that. I last saw her on 28/2/2024, and she was about to go travelling around the world for two months.
I really do think humour helps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VMy-erDsDw
Hi Remus,
You mentioned that, “ If you deliberately work up a strong fantasy as an experiment you can physically feel the stuff flooding into you bloodstream.”
You are absolutely right. Stop it. Stop doing that intentionally. It will become intrusive thoughts and you won’t be able to control it anymore. You are using limerence for mood regulation. There are healthy ways to regulate your mood that don’t lead to addiction or misery. I recommend running. I also like the happiness expert, Arther Brooks. I will link one of his interviews from YouTube.
https://youtu.be/qRY-foz-ZAw?si=n4ABCqsnwucvrOyt
Best of luck!
longer love potion clip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8wWornkZT8
I haven’t read all these posts on this thread or others although what appears to be missing is;
what is it about the limerent objects that presses those buttons and sets the process off?
This would seem to be important in dealing with a current limerent object and avoiding another, which somebody did mention I think.
As far as myself is concerned, which may be a general example of one way to proceed?
I think have identified exactly what it is;
“…”….he says, “I have only ever become limerent for “damsels in distress”. Specifically, women who are bold and confident on the outside, but hiding an emotional wound within.” The implication is his wife was a damsel in distress. In “The Glimmer givers,” he says, “There is nothing so alluring as a damaged soul you’re sure you can fix.” If that’s not a meme, it should be….. “
And for me real courage comes into it as well.
My first two [non limerent] relationships that both lasted 4-5 years each fitted this type.
I suspect I didn’t see the damaged, vulnerable and sensitive souls underneath [during pillow talk] until after the relationships were well and truly consummated.
Following just getting on well together, mutual availability, alcohol then bed.
The only two women I have copulated with.
Saw my damsel in distress in my first unconsummated heroine limerent object Julia early on and as I got to know her better she became even more amazing in that respect.
Luna my second current heroine limerent object is also like me a ‘professional scientist?’, and swans around like Lauren Bacall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Bacall
Looks like Annie Lennox in opening section of video below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HG7I4oniOyA
God have pity on me!
Pre-limerent;
We both attended various political and philosophical discussion groups and she once gave the most sensational and popular talks of the year with supreme aplomb [a general opinion of others] on a controversial subject not totally unrelated to this kind of thing.
Swatting away hostile questions from the floor.
She was incredibly impressive.
6 months later on 31/1/2024 somewhere around 10pm whilst in conversion with her the mask slipped and for a brief moment and I saw I thought a frightened little girl operating the controls from behind the curtain.
My firewall that had kept me celibate for 20 years after Julia disintegrated.
—————
I think there is some substance in the idea that this issue can be exacerbated with childhood issues.
As far as psychoanalysis is concerned often there are often two possible processes with this kind of thing; ‘transference’ and ‘projection’.
Transference
For instance limerence frequently occurs during psychoanalysis where the analysand becomes limerent towards the analyst.
[I seem to remember it was mentioned in the Tennov book.]
Where the analysand usually subconsciously associates the analyst with a parental figure with whom they had eg expected or hoped for reciprocated love.
Or if you were lucky actually love.
It would come under notions of ‘infantile fixation’ or maybe ‘imprinting’?
Accepting the perils of anthropomorphism.
It happens in animal rescue centres were abandoned wild baby fawns become infatuated with humans and can’t be released back into the wild.
If you transfer to the analyst as a parental figure and had evil gaslighting parent[s] there will be problems of trust; my relationship with a councillor broke down on that score.
Full rational awareness doesn’t help and it can take hours to resolve it.
It is forbidden to have counselling by someone you know and already trust; a professional psychoanalyst friend refused to help me at the risk of being struck off.
You can transfer as well from other unresolved loves.
To put it simply, doing a deep dive on ‘who do they remind you of?’
It could even be a previous self-generated limerent fantasy?
My Luna was similar to Julia in many other respects.
On Projection?
My ‘problem’ with my limerent objects Julia and Luna
[and in a totally different way- my sister?]
was a kind mirror neuron thing.
[Established as fact eg in experiments on capuchin monkeys with the recent availability of brain scans.
Eg quick google scan.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3510904/
Or psychological ‘projection’.
Eg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
It can be otherwise thought of as a kind of an attempt at non verbal ‘communication’ or telepathy so it has a ‘Darwinian type function or purpose in socially interacting animals.]
Was;
My god Luna, frightened little girl behind screen! you are even better at this game than myself and I fully understand and feel (empathise with) your struggle.
Having compassion or love for yourself isn’t exactly the same as narcissism.
Interestingly I have done this without being overwhelmed [much] by biochemical interventions.