A common barrier to going no contact is anxiety about how other people will feel about your change in behaviour. Especially for people pleasers.
Is it rude to cut contact with someone you used to support? Is it selfish to withdraw when they haven’t done anything wrong? We touched on this topic briefly in the post on closure, but Holly raised it in the comments recently, and I definitely think it’s worth a deeper dig. The people pleasing instinct is rich loam for limerence.
We should start with some definitions. What do I mean by a people pleaser? Well, it’s somebody that cares deeply about the feelings of others, and is very concerned about how their own behaviour affects them. A people pleaser is also concerned about others’ opinion of them: how are they perceived by their social group generally and particular individuals specifically? They are highly sensitive to the prospect of offending or upsetting other people, and care about their reputation as someone who is considerate, compassionate and thoughtful. Their reputation as someone dependable, helpful and caring is an important part of their identity.
Now a personality psychologist might look at such a person and say that they are high in “agreeableness” on the big 5 personality model, with a good dose of conscientiousness added in too. They may also speculate about previous relationships that have caused the people pleaser to learn the habit “must make others happy to protect myself”. If they were low on agreeableness themselves, they may also point out that many people pleasers derive pleasure from the praise and validation of others and so are mainly seeking gratification by saying yes to every request because they love to feel needed.
So, as with most of the things that make us who we are, it’s quite a jumble of positive and negative motivators, but it ultimately results in a simple reality when it comes to going no contact with an LO: distress that others may think badly of you.
What might others think?
Let’s confront this concern head on. Who may have Opinions after a limerent decides to withdraw from their LO? Well, I guess there are three potential classes of people: the LO, a SO (if relevant) and bystanders.
First, LO. It is pretty much inevitable that they will notice the change and may react in a variety of ways. They may be hurt by the apparent rejection, they may be confused, they may even be angry. How the LO reacts is not easily predicted, because it depends on the dynamic beforehand. Also, even if you do think you understand them, it’s quite likely that they won’t actually react as you expect.
The number one concern for people-pleaser limerents is: should I explain why I am withdrawing. There’s a sense that you owe LO some sort of explanation, an awareness that ghosting someone is disorienting and rude, or that it may be a total giveaway that you actually feel something for them romantically (or why else couldn’t you be friends?). These are reasonable concerns, and in fact it’s why I’m an advocate for a “staged withdrawal” process of gradually cooling off on the amount of contact you have with LO rather than going cold turkey. That requires far less in the way of explanation than an abrupt No Contact step, but it does also take discipline to stick with.
The second person to consider is a SO, if you have one. If you have disclosed your limerence problem to your SO, then they will likely want you to go No Contact as quickly and thoroughly as you can. Indeed, they may be pushing you to end things, and so your people-pleasing radar may kick in and make you want to please them by breaking it off with LO as soon as you can. If you resist, your SO may be upset by your apparent need for an explanation or closure – revealing as it does your high regard for LO and their feelings.
Finally, we have the issue of bystanders.
Some limerents are concerned by the gossip of mutual friends or co-workers or family, and are concerned that these others may judge them for “dumping” LO without explanation, or failing to attend events that LO is also at, or not showing LO the same level of social consideration that most friendly acquaintances can expect from a considerate and caring people-pleaser.
It’s demoralising to realise that trying to please all of these people is actually impossible. There are conflicting needs, and someone is going to be disappointed by your choices. And, of course, it also completely ignores the feelings of the one person that the people-pleaser tends to consider last: themselves.
What does it mean?
OK, so there are plenty of landmines for the people-pleasing limerent. Is there a way out of this mess? As usual, some self-awareness is a massive help.
Why are you a people pleaser? Are you just a highly agreeable person who gets genuine pleasure from helping others, or are you driven more by anxiety over social shame. Do you really enjoy helping people or do you really hate people thinking badly of you? Often it can be a bit of both, of course, but doing the deep work of properly understanding your drives and motives will help enormously.
One practical example: is this drive part of your limerence? Do you really feel connected to LO because they need you, and make you feel like you are helping them, and you get a thrill over being their source of support? Do they respond to your kindness with immense gratitude because they don’t have enough kind people in their lives? Do you have a rescue fantasy issue? Because if you do, the reason why it’s so hard to let go and “abandon” your LO becomes much more understandable.
The second obvious way that self-awareness can help is by spotting when your devious subconscious is exploiting your vulnerabilities to get what it wants. This anxiety could be your limerent brain bargaining for more contact. It’s not that you want to see them, you just need to clear the air. There are good reasons why you should spend time with them; you are just meeting your social obligations. Alternatively, is your subconscious finding your Achilles’s heel and using whatever attack it can to get you to give it some damn LO drug: “if you don’t seek them out and explain what you are doing, you’re a bad person.” It’s the familiar internal wrestle between what you know is right and what you crave.
What to do?
Live purposefully.
Being a people-pleaser is not the same thing as being kind. Kindness is good, but it has healthy boundaries. People pleasing is often a fear of saying no, of not being esteemed as highly, of being shunned by your social group. Helping others is not the same as subjugating yourself.
Often, at the heart of someone’s pleasing impulse is a misalignment between their perception of how others view them, and the reality. Most people won’t be judging you for not sending LO a birthday card, even though you did last year. In fact, most people won’t notice. If you have built a reputation for considerateness and care, you’re not going to lose it by failing to attend LO’s charity bakeoff. LO may well notice, but most bystanders will be heedless.
That brings us to the next purposeful point: you are not responsible for other people’s feelings. They have to manage them all by themselves. If your LO or friends or family are shaming you for not doing what they want, you are being manipulated. Just like narcissists sniff out glimmering limerents, takers sniff out people pleasers. You don’t have to do other people’s emotional work for them.
That brings us to a third point: you matter as much as them. Causing big emotional harm to yourself to spare an LO minor discomfort is not healthy. Your limerence crisis versus their irritation that you aren’t responding to their midnight texts anymore is not a sensible balance of concerns. Letting someone else set the terms on which you are allowed to protect yourself is the opposite to purposeful, it’s self-sabotage.
In contrast, purposeful living sets your sights correctly. Am I going to achieve my goals by pleasing other people? What do I need to do to look after myself best? Of the people in my life, who cares for me as much as I care for them? Who treats my thoughtfulness with appreciation and gratitude, and who takes it for granted? What sort of person do I want to bond with? How would the person I aspire to be behave in this situation?
Here’s the great thing about purposeful living – it helps resolve both your limerence and your people pleasing habit. It’s a two for one deal. In fact, it’s even better than that. It transforms your whole life.
Really like your post, DrL (as usual). I don’t think there is a single limerent out there that would not consider LO’s perspective when going NC or LC.
I do think I am a people pleaser as per your definition. I do enjoy helping people and I get a massive thrill of bring needed and of impacting someone’s life positively. But I do need the gratitude and appreciation. If I notice someone doesn’t care about what I do I’ll stop. I used to expect my best friends to be there for me the same way I was there for them, until I realized that when it really mattered, they weren’t there for me. Hence I stopped expecting reciprocity and just enjoy when I can help someone and they appreciate it. That’s good enough. I know there are people out there that will be there for me when I need them… not because they reciprocate, but because they enjoy being there for others too.
I really like your second and third point above: you are not responsible for other people’s feelings, and you matter as much as them. Two points I tend to forget, and with my current LE took me a a long time to realize and implement: I am not responsible for my LO’s feelings, and I have to put me first before him.
Yes, learning to spot lack of reciprocity was a big step for me in developing better friendships too. I think it’s a healthy attitude – appreciate it when it comes, but don’t keep pouring more and more of your own emotional labour into a friend (or LO) that doesn’t give back, in the vain hope it will finally result in recognition.
I feel this was written for me. I have agonized over matters of etiquette and manners, rooted in the fear of being unkind. This fear was heightened with LO. But it’s been a lifetime struggle to be truly kind to myself as I have always had an overarching fear of being selfish. I was raised by an extremely selfish parent and determined as small child that I would not emulate such behavior. After a lifetime of desperately trying to prove I am not selfish I think it’s time to find a balance. I do want to love my neighbor as myself but I need to love myself sufficiently first. Thank you for this post!
I get the feeling that a lot of limerents have this issue tangled in with all the other emotional triggers of limerence. A big part of purposeful living is deciding to look after yourself as well as you would look after someone else you care about. And, yes, balance is always the key.
@Jaideux. You’ll get there, my dear little people-pleaser. Yes, you will. Eventually, you’ll feel comfortable expressing your real personality/preferences, etc. And you might be surprised how much people enjoy being around the “real you” too! Don’t be afraid to shine in your own way. 😛
Three weeks ago I abruptly stopped talking to my LO. I had not read about staged withdrawal at that point (I’m not a people pleaser incidentally).
Four weeks ago, I had told her that I enjoy her company. Her eyebrows shot up. I don’t know what that meant. I tried to go NC after, but she was cordial with me. I apologised for my coolness and stated it was due to her eyebrow movement. She told me she was a “bit of an arsehole” and that I read too much into things.
I went NC (as far as possible, she is a superior in work) when I found out she had a thing for her boss(whom I believe she is now going on a date with).
Her reaction seems to be understanding. She is cordial, but does not talk much to me and vice-versa. The last time I talked to her, she had to get me to help with something and said “I need you”, then instantly catching that with “I mean it’s the boss that needs you to help with this”.
So in my case, she knows why and seems rather supportive. I still find myself getting sad though.
I’m not a people pleaser, I can be quite selfish but in a good way. I’m very forward and will say no when I don’t wanna do something etc. I’m flexible and if a friend really needs me, I’m there for my friend. All my friends really apreciates have I’m so direct and they are always sure of me, when I say yes, I really mean it. People knows where I stand. I’m really opiniated and my male friends always have found this trait in me very refreshing. I actually connect very easily with males becuase of my forwardness, and how I love teasing as a means of showing affection.
People call me for “Bitter-sweet”. Forward, direct Charming, warm, sweet but in a bitter-sweet way. If someone ticks me of I won’t sulk, I will ask “hey, whats the problem here?” because I can’t stand indirectness and sulking.
Well all this goes to sh**t when I get involved with someone and have an LE. After around 6-7 months, que in power plays and elusiveness and weird cold walls and me acting like a nearly bipolar person.
Anyways, my LO though is a people pleaser, but he does not wanna be one. He has expressed himself that he sometimes feels fake when he is sweet and polite to people who he dislikes. I’m actually intruged by this types of people, I both like and dislike this trait. And well, opposites attract!
And really early on I saw how my LO lighted up by my mere precence because of how politically incorrect and forward I was. But alas this was just a fasade. He hides this so soo well but infact he is a very headstrong person who will never change his mind about anything when he has made up his mind. But he hides this! He prefers to seem sweet and naive…
If he does not wanna commit to something, he will never say “no” upfront and diirect. He sidesteps around stuff, like a crab. But he is trusthwordy though. If he agreed upon something, he is fully commited to it. He will never say yes to something and then ditch you.
If we don’t count the way we ended things going NC on each other just like that… now thats unexpected for both of us… Or maybe its not. I think he signaled months prior to NC he was gonna abonden me. I was just so dumb and addicted.
I guess he had enough and, he just wanted to seem like a good person even in the end, even when he knows how much silence hurts me…
oh also all my weird elusiveness and being cold and going from direct to elusive when I feel hurt by someone, can be traced back to my father, mother and my childhood. But yeah, show me anyone who has not have any childhood traumas or issues.. My LO surely had similar traumas….
Today I saw a kid being regarded so lovely by her mum that I thought almost reflexively: “I wish I had a mother like that.”. And I know she was not just pretending to be nice with her boy, because I’ve known her for enough time to see her behavior in different situations, and she has always chosen to treat me and everyone else with respect, attention and care. My mother, on the other hand, looks like to be always on the lookout for opportunities to make me feel bad about myself, to shame me and to sabotage my success, among many other things she does on a frequent basis. Maybe that’s why I’m a limerent after all. Trauma re-enactments and repetition cycles might be throwing me towards woman and people who on the surface look like to be a shining armor knight (princess?), but they actually are mostly narcissistic in their core, just like my mother is.
My current LO, which I am working to be freed from, looks like to be an exception to this rule. There have been clever manipulation maneuvers made by some mutual “friends” of ours to make her to see me in a bad light, and now the guy she is dating with is trying to manage their relationship in a way that’s not entirely honest. I was first betrayed at the workplace one year ago, which was around the time my current LE begun by means of feeling the glimmer for LO, and now I was betrayed by so said “friends”, so at least I’m not as surprised for it as I was last year when I almost lost my mind trying to understand what on earth was happening that took from me my happiness, joy and self control in such a disturbing way that I had to look for a new job, because I couldn’t stand to keep suffering so much manipulation without even knowing what was really against me at that time.
It was really in that darkest time, that I felt the glimmer for LO. I had known her for many years, but I had never been infatuated for her before. I just thought she was a highly opinionated girl, attractive and very socially keen, but I had never had any problems with talking to her and being friends with her. But after I felt the glimmer, I didn’t know anymore what had happened that made me so emotionally vulnerable to her presence from that moment on. I also started to daydream about her a lot, which prompted me to search for “day dreaming” on the Internet, and eventually I got to this website where I could see everything about limerence had a lot to do with what I was going through.
Today I’ve improved a lot on resisting manipulation, and manipulators at my current job are having a much harder time to defeat me than those of my previous job.
Interestingly, resisting those jerks’ manipulation tactics is very much like resisting the urge to emotionally connect to LO, and the behaviors I’ve come to develop and improve to resist limerence are also having a lot of positive impact in my quest to surviving and thriving in the workplace environment.
So, I wonder, did this LE took place to first show me how vulnerable I was (and still am) to LO, to then force me to give my real best to find a way out of the limerence, and byproduct of it to make me finally win against the worst enemies I had ever come to face on the workplace? I think this really makes sense, because after changing jobs I came across people who were just like the manipulators of my previous job, so I realized that changing jobs would never solve the real problem, and that I had to find a way to make myself more resistant against those monsters, something that would make me really strong and emotionally resilient. Guess what? This is the same combination of traits which is helping me to win over limerence without losing my mind in the process.
I hadn’t ever considered myself as a people pleaser until someone at work described me using that exact phrase earlier this year. I thought about it after the comment was made, and I think it’s somewhat true. Certainly with people I like or respect, I want them to like me. Probably the same with authority figures too. But there are limits, I don’t spend time agonising about what they think or conjuring up ways to impress them.
I did with LO though and I’d also built this narrative in my mind that she needed me. Any perceived lack of reciprocity hurt me, and when contemplating NC I felt guilty for abandoning her. Nearly a year of NC now and she’s apparently fine, so it goes to show you can exaggerate your own role, especially under the spell of limerence.
Vincent, how do you know she is fine?
Also, how do you know if she doesn’t feel abondoned and rejected or not?
Well, after about 3m of NC I sent her an olive branch text; in her reply she said she had moved on with her life and was happy with her new boyfriend. Last week I overheard her friend say she was doing well in her new job.
I’ve decided to take these comments at face value, that she is fine, even though my limerent brain thought that her text reply felt like she was retaliating to things I’d said previously, and that she’d tell people her new job was great whether it was or not…
I’ve not asked anyone whether she is still with the guy, and I’ve not asked anyone about how she’s getting on with the new job (a job I set up for her). It’s been hard to do, because I care for her, still, but my need for self-preservation overrides my feelings for her now. That’s taken a while to get to, but is unshakable now.
Vincent it sounds like you are doing great! And you don’t seem to have bitterness or desire for retaliation. That’s so good to hear. Bravo to you! You are winning the limerence battle with class.
I’m so sorry if my question seemed insensitive 🙁
I feel you! I’m happy for you being strong and wow she seems not worthy at all of your affection and care…
My question came from, well my inner struggle about my NC.
Its been almost 1 years since LO and I went NC without any closure at all! One day we were texting, and weeks went by with both him and I witholding, until it went on so long we now can’t just send a “hey whats up?” text. There were warning signs from both of us prior NC so it was not that sudden… But traumatizing in any way.
I feel so hurt and rejected by his manners. In my mind he is not hurt at all and he just pushed me away without letting me know directly.
We have one mutual friend with whom I have had NC aswell for as long. And now I’m concidering contacting this mutual friend. I wanna ask him how he is doing and then low key ask about my LO. He knows we went NC, and maybe they do talk about me but since I have had no contact with mutual friend either, both are in the dark about me.
I don’t know if this is a bad idea or not. Best case scenario this is me giving LO an opening so he can reach out. But also, I know I will feel so much more hurt if he doesn’t. I don’t know if I can take it! I’m to fragile… Or what if our friend tells me my LO is doing amazing, or worse, he has started a family etc.. Now that would really f**k me up…
And how the F would that even work? I text mutual friend, ask him about my LO. And he textes my LO telling him I asked about him?!
Maybe all this is really stupid, he clearly dislikes me anyway.
But I think so much about this I have super hard time focusing on important tasks…
Thank you @Jaideux! Not sure about doing it with class, it’s felt very grubby and humbling at times, but I am winning now.
Not insensitive at all @BV, it’s good to talk about this, and hopefully my experience resonates with other people’s and it helps a little. All I’d say on your quest for closure is that it’s unlikely to come with further contact. LO’s final texts to me were hurtful, and showed that she had moved on, which brought a kind of closure, but I didn’t get what I truly needed, which is the admission from her that there was something more between us – that she did have feelings for me. In my heart I believe she did, the circumstantial evidence built up over 2 years certainly points that way, but without hearing it from her, I won’t truly have satisfaction. The extent to which that bothers me reduces month-on-month with NC, and I hope soon it will be forgotten.
Similar yet different for me as well. I know I must have meant something and he did tell me I meant something to him, his actions of chasing after his new LO kinda tells me a different story and I seem to believe his actions more than his words. So even though I heard it from my LO, closure still didn’t seem to happen. So same as for you, Vincent, it fades with NC, every week a little bit more.
@BV: I also don’t think any further contact will help you to find closure, on the contrary, I think it will set you back and prolong your path to LO freedom.
BV, it’s a very very bad idea to contact him. You will get sucked right back in and never heal. It takes a lot of strength to go NC, and consider it a gift he is not reaching out to you and prolonging your misery. Just imagine him saying “goodbye my friend, you were important to me, but we cannot be together. I wish you the best.”. I did this and I had a good cry, and felt a measure of peace, which started me finally being able to heal. It’s a long hard road ahead of you but eventually if you stay on it and not run back into the burning house of limerence, you will find peace in your heart.
“” but I didn’t get what I truly needed, which is the admission from her that there was something more between us – that she did have feelings for me. In my heart I believe she did, the circumstantial evidence built up over 2 years certainly points that way, but without hearing it from her, I won’t truly have satisfaction. “”
Yes, yes, and hell yes! My exact situation, even down to the number of years.
I’ve attempted no contact several times, the longest lasted 3 weeks just recently , and it was torture. He reestablished contact recently but seems more reserved and cool.
Sometimes I think if only he could admit this “thing” between us is mutual then I can move on, but for now I dangle on the hook of “does he or doesn’t he” and it drives me nuts.
Thus we both continue pretending that we are “just friends”.
By the way, I am an empath/codependent/people pleaser.
Yes being polite and easy going towards people shouldn’t actually be seen as people pleasing. But then, maybe its subjective?
I mean, who decides what “normal” politeness vs people pleasing is? Is there a definition? Something can concidered acting like a normal decent human being while someone else calls it bs?
For me people there are different kind of pleasers, the type that is genuine actually and just are insecure which I have then no problem with. Or those who are pleaser in order to manupulative, which I can’t stand. Actually I can’t stand constantly polite and happy people following others lead but then again I’m all about genuinity…
This is the trap that a lot of people pleasers fall into. They are not sure whether they are being impolite, or if they have unreasonable standards of themselves. That’s a source of anxiety, because they can probably reason their way to recognising that they don’t owe LO any explanation, but they have a horrible nagging feeling that everyone thinks they are being rude.
Dr. L, that’s rather fascinating. More commonalities amongst our tribe!
Jaideux, I hope you’ll see this post, its a bit messy how comments works on this forum
Thank you so much for taking your time to write!
No I won’t be able to reach out to my LO as I would never be able to handle anymore rejection. Even him using a neutral tone would hurt so much.
But first of all, we were friends for 2 years, and he just cut me off just like that?! No bye no nothing. I mean can you imagine how that feels?!
I feel like trash:(. And I feel so much more stupid bc I was the one reaching out to him the last time we wrote, and I even told him he means a lot to me.
He ignored that and changed the subject, and after we said “lets hang out “ (and a date aet for months later), he just cut all contact. It was not even a soft fade away…
I was so emotionally burned out so I couldn’t reach out, and he never texted to check up on me.
And now I would never be able to even ask him why…
Not that our mutual friend is any better, he also just stopped texting, but I’m use to him being a cold person so I’m not offended by it….
Its all so messy and hurtful
Anyways… Is there any forum for limerent where one can ask for advice? Maybe a psychology forum? I feel we who write here maybe are to overwhelmed by the others stories maybe.. Atleast for me its hard to give advice to people here but I so wish I could:(
I just need guidance, and I can’t afford therapy:(
Hi there BV,
Honestly the advice I have found from this site has been golden. I am not looking elsewhere. It’s helped me make some decisions that have contributed mightily to starting on my path of healing.
I almost hate to tell you this, but I cut my LO off cold. I refused to answer calls and texts and even mutual friends said that LO was reaching out to them regarding me, was worried about me, etc., and when I ran into family members of his (I was warm and friendly to them, they are lovely people) they took pictures with me to send to him (they don’t know about my limerence).
I am sure he was hurt and sad at my disappearing act, but after years of being there for him, and also limerent for him, while he simultaneously searched the world for the perfect mate (and he recently found one and married her!) , I decided it was time to take care of myself and this was the way I needed to do it.
I am not going to apologize for this. Cutting him off was long overdue. So, if I was you, I would not try to figure out why he has cut you off. Maybe he thinks its best for both of you. Let him go! He may care more for you than realize, but it doesn’t matter if he does or doesn’t. You are fortunate that you are now free, I was involved in my LE for many more years than you, and I truly wish my LO had cut me off early on. My healing would be much easier now if I he had! I have years and years of sweet memories to try not to dwell on. Truthfully I wish I had found the strength to cut him off years ago. I will own this lack of courage on my part, and now pay the price for it.
BV please realize how great your situation is…. you are free!
Now your life and your heart is yours again, and it’s time to heal and to grow and to love people who genuinely love you back. Be GRATEFUL to your LO that he cut you off. He gave you a gift.
It really pains me reading about how horrible your LO has been, such a jerk! How narcisstic isn’t that!? Leading you on and playing with your feelings while looking for a marriage partner in someone else?! WTF is wrong with these people?! It really upsets me! How spoiled and disgusting aren’t some people?! F LO,s and F LE,d and F Alll the type of people who toys with others feelings just so they can feel power and control! F em!
I should stopp calling my previous LO for LO.
Because I don’t see him as a limerens object, not anymore. I just see him as a friend. And as such, it really hurts the way he cut me out.
Who the fudge cuts their friend just like that without telling anything? One day making future plans of a meet up and then ignores you without any good byes?! Who does that?! Acting all polite while planning on running you over with a car and leaving you all hurt like a roadkill?! Wtf?!
I mean sure someone having an LE would do that… but he just saw me as a friend, he made that very clear after he stopped flirting which was like for only a couple of months.
So it leaves me with feeling super rejected as a friend…
I should stopp feeling upset but F that, I really have a hard time accepting being treaed like this…
Anyways… I think I have to stop coming tho these forums, because it really makes me think a lot more about my friend and it gets me all riled up all over, sorry for me ranting 🙁
This post is excellent as always and in my case, very timely. My last hour of therapy was spent on exactly this part of my personality. I’m a definite people pleaser. What was unexpected was my therapist offering up the question: “Do you think maybe you ‘consume’ people? That they are there for your validation?” This stopped me cold. I’ve always known I try to do things for people, sometimes too much and – it’s true – I desperately need validation. But that I fed my validation, vamp-style, by consuming people and moving on once I’d pleased them and been validated? Hadn’t thought of that. It’s something we’ve discussed my LO does: feed of my (and others’) adoration to fill up her ego and then move on until she needs another ego-boost. But that my behaviour was similar? Frightening. The therapist then reminded me I’d always said LO and I were similar: we clicked instantly, we are both EFTN personality types, we share the same humor and are almost always on the same wavelength. Eh, I don’t like where this is going.
Lots of updates in the ongoing ‘Fred & The Lovely MPDG LO’ saga by the way. Didn’t really fit here and didn’t want to hijack the thread.
Dying for updates! Highly similar experience here.
I did ponder including that aspect of the people-pleasing phenomenon, Fred, but decided it probably wasn’t especially relevant to the limerence scenario. Obviously the “pleaser” gets something from the interaction, in terms of emotional satisfaction or validation, but for the most part the limerents who contact me are driven by anxiety – what should they do? What do people think of them? – rather than craving some sort of narcissistic hit.
But I guess ultimately any act that makes you feel good has a selfish component. I kind of work with the “if it makes the other person feel good too, then you’re probably OK” rule of thumb…
“People-pleaser” fits me to a T. In fact, I think one of my very first posts on this site was on this exact topic.
I don’t think my LC (as I’ve mentioned before, NC is not an option) is coming off like an ass to LO and my shared acquaintances/friends. At least not yet. I suspect an opportunity for that may be coming in the next few months. That’ll be a test for sure.
I’m actually surprisingly OK with LO being thoroughly confused by my LC. After over a year of mixed signals, flightiness, unreliableness, and fickle on/off attention directed my way, It’s a perverse pleasure to step back and declare (if only to myself) “hey, I don’t need this.” I’ve been trying, as best I can, not to think about how LO is taking this change, so it hasn’t had much impact on my people-pleasing tendency as far as LO’s reactions are concerned.
The other thing, and more on topic, is that as I mentioned before, this “stop being a people-pleaser as far as LO is concerned” just doesn’t feel like me, to me. I feel weird. Like I’m trying to be somebody else, somebody more callous and self-absorbed. I feel like I’m back in high school (no offense to those in high school) trying to put on a persona to see how it fits. I understand ‘fake it til you make it’ works exactly like this, but again, this feels foreign. I guess it does until the day it doesn’t?
The good news is, I’ve passed one full month without initiating contact. LO talks to me, I’ll reply… but I don’t contact LO. I have more willpower than I thought. I’ve noticed positive benefits too. Less intrusive thoughts, less random ruminating, etc.
Bad news is that I’m still hooked. I didn’t realize just how badly until I was watching a video recording of a recent company gathering and noticed myself “hunting” for LO in the crowd shots, multiple times.
Haven’t seen LO in several weeks, and I’m virtually positive I’ll see LO tomorrow and probably get an invitation to lunch or something like that tomorrow or some other day this week. I’m torn between “I need to think and prepare, so I don’t make the wrong decision in the heat of the moment” and “No, preparing for LO is part and parcel of ‘putting too much time and attention into thinking about her'”.
So I come ramble to you fine folks instead.
Brilliant news, Jackson. Congrats!
Jackson, that’s inspiring. Well done! How does it feel though when they contact you? I would get the same rush 😢
Mix of emotions. Annoyance. Relief. Challenge. Interest. Frustration. Confusion.
Trying to reframe communication in my head. Trying to take everything at face value, not dig any deeper, become “ok with uncertainty and confusion “, and still feel true to myself.
It’s a task.
My thoughts on this topic of being a people pleaser, is that what kind of person you are, and how other people see you, is revealed by all of your actions throughout this particular phase of your life. If you consistently strive to be agreeable, that will be how you are seen. Doing one thing differently, in one particular circumstance, that doesn’t fit your pattern, shouldn’t destroy your own and others perceptions of you. Later on, when the stakes aren’t so high, you can try to brainstorm ways you could have accomplished your goal and still been agreeable, and try to act that way in future. Perhaps the fact that you aren’t “perfectly” agreeable, means you are trying too hard to be perfect, rather than agreeable. To me, there’s something beautiful about a person who at some point ‘loses it’, it means they’re human.
The other comment I wanted to make is that I think the modern workplace is the wrong place to look for love and validation, and I wonder how many people’s limerent episodes are from work relationships. Firstly, the idea of professionalism places many restrictions on the natural growth of intimacy.
Many people are aware that they’re being paid to show up and do a job, not to engage in private mating rituals. As well, most workplaces are inherently, often ruthlessly, competitive environments, so that can lead people to behave selfishly, to maintain their status and position on the job. Unfortunately, some people’s whole lives revolve around their workplace these days, so that’s where they look for intimacy, love, validation, etc. I think it’s far better to take up some type of people-focussed activity outside work, and confine your relationships to that realm, where people are more free to be themselves.
Of course you’re correct on workplace relationships, but the very nature of limerence is that it is involuntary. I, Dr L, Fred, Jackson and many others didn’t plan to fall for a work colleague, and were well aware of the awkwardness and inappropriate nature of it. But, that doesn’t stop the mind doing it anyway. Logic and a LE do not go hand in hand. I was happily married when mine started, I wasn’t looking for anything, and I fell hard for someone who on paper made no sense either. But it happened, slowly, day-by-day, edging those boundaries back inch-by-inch before I eventually I realised I was in trouble. You spend so many hours with your work colleagues, the uncertainty is built-in but so are the opportunities for a stolen glance, a suggestive comment, a touch of the arm, a drunken conversation, a late-night text exchange, that fuel the hope and excitement.
“But it happened, slowly, day-by-day, edging those boundaries back inch-by-inch before I eventually I realised I was in trouble. You spend so many hours with your work colleagues, the uncertainty is built-in but so are the opportunities for a stolen glance, a suggestive comment, a touch of the arm, a drunken conversation, a late-night text exchange, that fuel the hope and excitement.”
Jackson, this was beautifully written and describes my experience exactly.
Yep, it’s the falling into limerence by accident that gets you.
Sorry, meant Vincent not Jackson. Credit where credit is due! (See! People-pleasing again). 😃
And I was far too polite to correct you 😁
LO #2 told me she didn’t like me when we started dating. I asked her why she kept going out with me. She said I could “…be relentlessly persistent and, at times, you can be irresistibly cute.”
My wife was within one broken date of my pulling the plug on her. She said I scared her. I asked how. She said I was older, successful, confident, and, “You knew what you wanted and you wanted me.” I asked her what changed her mind. She said, “I liked it.”
When LO #4 stonewalled me, I went after her. I got the idea from her responses that she wasn’t used to being stood up to. In her goodbye, she mentioned those exchanges. She said, “I don’t like how that feels” but she didn’t elaborate.
I’m not a people-pleaser but I noticed myself apologizing to LO #4 a lot, usually so I could get back into her good graces. Early on, I remember apologizing to LO #2 a lot, too. Once I figured out she was a passive-aggressive petulant, that stopped unless I’d really done something to apologize for.
There’s a concept in relationship discussions about why people stay in bad/inappropriate relationships called FOG. Fear, Obligation & Guilt. Some people add Shame as a fourth category. I remember the EAP counselor asking what LO #4 knew about me. I asked the EAP counselor why she was asking. The EAP counselor asked if LO #4 could push my buttons. I told the EAP counselor I wasn’t afraid of LO #4 and that I didn’t owe her anything. I was under no obligation to her. LO #4 had no leverage. The EAP counselor asked how I’d feel about ending the acquaintance and going NC. I told her I’d feel like a schmuck for turning my back on someone who was reaching out to me.
The EAP counselor said, “There’s the guilt.”
@Scharnhorst, You say “When LO #4 stonewalled me, I went after her. I got the idea from her responses that she wasn’t used to being stood up to. In her goodbye, she mentioned those exchanges. She said, “I don’t like how that feels” but she didn’t elaborate.”
In my opinion, a person stonewalling you is signally they need some emotional distance (like going NC), and they want you to back off. If you do it, this shows them you are ‘tuned in’ to what’s going on with them, and are potentially able to improvise beautiful music with them, like a good jazz player does. Whereas, if you do the opposite of what they indicate they want, then they may interpret it as you being in competition with them, trying to take charge like a musician who just barges in with his own song and ignores the other members of the band.
Not everyone is into a kind of 50 shades of grey submissiveness: sure, it’s okay as porn but not how one wants to be in a real life relationship, because it’s just an endless master/slave power struggle. Many women want instead to be part of a team, where both people work on the same project together.
LO #4 had a habit of saying something, I’d respond to it and I’d get either silence or something that completely ignored anything I’d said.
We’d drifted into NC after one of those. 2-3 months later, she resurfaced like nothing had happened. LO #2 operated that way. Something uncomfortable would come up & LO #2’s MO was to pretend it never happened. I told LO #4 that LO #2 pulled that crap & I didn’t like it any better coming from her than from LO #2. I told LO #4 I thought her style was dismissive & it was a lousy way to do business when someone was being honest with them.
She said, “Based on what you said, I thought it best not to respond to certain things.” We went a few exchanges over that one.
I made up my mind to disengage and told a mutual acquaintance I was leaving. 3 days later LO #4 sent me a FB friend request. She wasn’t decreasing my access to her, she gave me more.
@Scharnhorst, that sounds so frustrating.
But I will be super honest and confess I’ve done the same thing. It means I’ve been somewhat offended by something, by the way the man has approached or spoken to me. It’s like, when people are interacting and someone says something in very bad taste, the other people (if they are respectful) won’t jump on the poor smuck and criticize him/her, but will more subtly signal disapproval by letting the joke or comment go flat and creating an uncomfortable silence, before moving physically away from the person, and changing the subject. This is what women do to men, all the time. The hope is that by going cold, the guy will realize he crossed a line and made her uncomfortable. If she likes him, she’ll give him a chance to try again, and get it right this time.
Also, to clarify, a woman sees this as being respectful of a man’s dignity and autonomy. If there was a more intimate relationship, she would say: this hurt my feelings because x and y. But if you’re not in a serious relationship, the other person isn’t obliged to care about her feelings. And it’s not her job to provide every man who interested in her with an instruction manual: say this, then that, press these buttons simultaneously… Either the man will figure her out, or he won’t, and that will resolve her uncertainty about getting involved with him.
All just my opinion.
One thing to keep in mind is this was all being done via email and PM. We didn’t have the chance to read faces or body language, etc.
I’m an ENTJ. One of the characteristics they talk about is ENTJs can be brutally direct. “They have a tendency to be direct and challenging when interacting with others, which tends to put people on the defensive. This is in fact exactly what they’re after – the ENTJ wants to learn what you know, and understand as many of the nuances of your knowledge as the context of the conversation will allow. They go after this knowledge in a very direct, confrontational manner. With this approach, they will learn not only the facts of the knowledge, but also the background of the individual’s stance on that piece of knowledge. How well does the individual understand the topic? How invested is the individual in their stance? This method of “unsettling” people has the effect of livening up conversations and stimulating learning, when the other conversationalists are able to easily withstand the interrogations of the ENTJ. People who are uncomfortable with being challenged, or who are less than confident in the topic being discussed, are likely to be subdued into not expressing themselves with the ENTJ” – https://www.personalitypage.com/html/ENTJ_rel.html
I looked at some of our exchanges and I had been interrogating her. I quoted that to LO #4 and apologized. It wasn’t the best style for communicating with her. In that same email, I also told her that if I said something that was over the line, whatever, just tell me.
In the end, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2f-MZ2HRHQ . But, as they taught us in business school, you shouldn’t be doing well what you shouldn’t be doing at all.
@Scharnhorst I’m not suggesting you change youself at all, I’m sure there are women who respond to your style with enthusiasm. And since this was a extra curricular relationship, good thing you weren’t successful.
I don’t know whether she knew you were in a relationship, or asked you? I don’t allow emotional connections to develop with an attached man (though I used to get LE over them). I tell the guy outright to go work on his relationship with his wife. I’m fairly appalled at the women who do encourage it, no one should mess up another person’s marriage. The person will usually excuse themselves “He told me he was separated”, I say BS, wait at least until he shows you the divorce papers.
@Satch,
She knew I was married all along. Until I disclosed to her, she was an unwitting participant. After I disclosed to her, she didn’t have that excuse, anymore. I used disclosure as a method to end the LE (see “How to Get Rid of Limerence.”) The consolidated history of that LE is in “Barriers and Uncertainty.”
“There’s a concept in relationship discussions about why people stay in bad/inappropriate relationships called FOG. Fear, Obligation & Guilt.”
Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You Author: Susan Forward
Years ago I was a mod on BPD411 as well as being very active on the late Anne Sheffield’s site (Depression Fallout) and this is one of many books I’ve read in order to deal with Mr. Lee and his issues. Both books are worth the very few hours it takes to read them.
It seems to me that a great number of limerents (and their SO’s) would benefit from the various BPD book lists. My life improved significantly years ago when I decided to stomp on eggs and make omelets than continue to try and trip lightly over them. All that did was cause my hair to fall out due to the stress and needing antidepressants that made me dehydrated and jittery. I can do that with coffee and it costs less. Doesn’t mean I’m going to stick around if there is another limerent episode though.
https://www.bpdcentral.com/store/#!/Books-For-Partners/c/28751012/offset=0&sort=normal
Lee, your sense of humor is a lot like a terrific cup of espresso. Dark, strong, slightly bitter and absolutely wonderful. Mr. Lee is a lucky guy.
But if you stay with someone through their limerant periods don’t you basically just deserve what you get? Like your fear of going it alone is too great, so you’d rather nurse someone through their stuff. Also, I’ve watched friends be involved with those with BPD and I have told them plainly and directly to let them go. I get loving someone is loving them even when they are sick etc. but there is no good reason on this earth that I can see to intentionally set yourself up to be with someone who is sick. I’ve had problems with depression my whole life and keep single for the most part. It seems selfish and disrespectful to consider being in relationships if you have mental health issues. If you know you have mental health issues you should disclose them pretty much right up front, they are the STIs of the mind and no one should allow another to become seduced by their lovely side without sufficient warning of their not lovely side.
I don’t think people intentionally set themselves up to be with mentally ill people. I can’t speak from experience as I didn’t have to go through something like that, but I think there is more that defines a person than a mental illness. I think (and hope) that if someone discloses their diagnosis with me, I wouldn’t run for the hills. Having said that, I also think one shouldn’t stay in a relationship if that relationship is not good for someone for whatever reasons. But as said, no first hand experience.
My point was that Lee talks about being limerant and having BPD as being the same thing. I’ve watched friends with BPD ruin everything near them and damage the lives of everyone who cares about them because of their magical thinking, convinced that they alone know and can do any number of things. And it is true that in LE ones LO seems to have a magical quality and ability to illuminate any number of things, to encourage the self to reconsider any number of things and find new ways to proceed in life. I’d wager that’s a great and informative thing, that limerance doesn’t have to be this terrible thing. But BPD is a terrible thing, and it is exceptionally selfish and I would say wrong of someone with BPD to get into relationships and 100% WRONG for them to consider having children. The people who
experience limerance are fortunate for their ability to feel the sparkles in life and consider things a new way. The ones who have other mental health issues that cripple other parts of their life find another person to focus on and allow that to dominate their experience, but it is their diagnosis that is the problem, not the limerance that is just the universe waking you up with sparkles and doughnuts.
I’m not the limerent. Nor do I have BPD.
Also the his behavior that led to his diagnosis came after we were married and had children.
I’m so happy that your Magic 8 Ball is infallible.
I’m sorry for your suffering. It is unfortunate but like I’ve said I have several friends who have been diagnosed with BPD and I have encouraged their SO to leave them. But as someone who was friends with these people long before their diagnosis, it didn’t come out of the nowhere. Every last one of them was always problematic, their issues were just brushed off because they were young, attractive, intelligent, successful, charming,etc. but there were WAY more than signs. It isn’t that I have a magic 8 ball that’s always right, it’s that I pay attention and have no problem with being on my own or walking away.
“Like your fear of going it alone is too great, so you’d rather nurse someone through their stuff.”
You really should read the older posts before pretending you know anything of substance about me or Mr. Lee. Clearly, I trigger something in you.
I’m not a victim nor do I play any of the other points on the drama triangle or pentagon or whatever it is up to now. Nor was I ever afraid to be alone and Mr. Lee knows it. In fact, it was something that he has complained about through the years because I am not and will not put myself in a position to need a rescuer/hero type. I shut that down vigorously and immediately.
I suggest the BPD reading list because basically it helps people recognize that boundaries are good things, you can and should have them with intimates and they don’t all have to look the same.
I’ve been married for over two decades to Mr. Lee. No, he most assuredly wasn’t the most charming man, or even the most handsome – he didn’t “sweep me off my feet”, but he had and still has some fine qualities. He was prone to depression, but the other stuff didn’t come out until after we were married and had a child. As you know, BPD’s can mirror others very well, for varying lengths of time before the mask slips and ta-da! You find out they are HOLLOW chocolate bunnies who pretended to be SOLID chocolate bunnies. I did the hard work to be a solid bunny. I’ve made it clear to him that despite my profession, I am not his “fixer” and I am not going to pipe ganache up his butt. That is his job. He knows that he is lucky to have me sticking around.
For all his shortcomings, he is heads above many with limerence or BPD (no, they aren’t the same but they have similarities) for several reasons:
1) He was forthcoming about the effect Miss LO had on him even if his timing SUCKED when he brought it up
2) He hadn’t engaged in an EA or PA with her (he didn’t complain about me or our marriage as being unfulfilling or any of that tripe)
3) His most BPDish symptoms were addressed and controlled years ago. Lamictal can be a wonderful thing if the patient can take it safely and sticks with it, in addition to working on their own issues.
YMMV.
Re: hollow choc. bunny…” I am not his “fixer” and I am not going to pipe ganache up his butt. ”
Priceless !
I used to be a people pleaser until a bad experience with a friend that made me stop. My lo is definitely a ppl pleaser But never tried to please me. Its like we try to be more real and ourselves together if that makes sense? Thats what i rlly like. It feels real
Been on a month and a half of no contact with my LO#2. We work different shifts at my cafe, I can feel it wearing down and returning to my usual self. However im dreading when I may find myself working with them or hearing that my LO may be in a relationship(that will sting). So I will have to be prepared. Love reading you guys comments and posts.
I’ve been in a complicated situation that could definitely fit the definition of mutual limerance. This person came into my life and just kept coming back again and again, relentlessly. We grew very close, are both people pleasers and they are in a relationship. I have always respected people’s relationships and just stayed away. But this person just kept coming back. We’ve done extended periods of NC and both lived our lives. During those times of NC I continue to live my mostly single life with enough romantic intrigue to keep me entertained, but mostly I’m a focus on my own life, have fun, mostly keep to myself type of person. When we broke the NC window last time I discovered that they had persisted in the relationship with their SO and that it was basically a bloody battlefield of their relationship that they continue because they have several years into. At first I pushed them to consider how to be better to their SO, and was glad that we had taken distance. But over time our emotional affair got right back into full swing and included weekend trips, cuddling and tremendous closeness. I’ve decided that I sincerely appreciate this person, enjoy them and as ever they can fit in my life I will take it. I owe nothing to their SO, and as we aren’t having sex I’m not doing anything wrong. I sincerely want the best for this person and have said that I will bow out of their life if they would prefer and we can return to NC. So I suppose my real question is, isn’t there some merit in considering that whether it’s early trauma that set up insecure attachments or brain chemistry or twin flames or whatever that brings about this state of feeling that the opportunity to grow, learn, feel and experience is worth it. That being bold and honest about how you feel is fine, that being the other person is only a problem because of the unhealthy need to lay claim and ownership over another. That really it’s the obsession with making relationships work past their expiration dates that is the real problem. That if they were supposed to be with that person they wouldn’t have developed this relationship with me, and even though I’m complicit in all of it. I don’t owe their SO a damn thing, but I do owe myself any iota of connection and happiness that I can find?
LifeisTricky, for a moment I thought you were my LO, it just sounds so similar.
I have been in your LO’s shoes, in a relationship, but pushed to be with LO (I pushed, he didn’t back off, I pushed, and he let me inch closer and closer). I also feel that he genuinely cared for me, and that he didn’t reciprocate at first or initiated anything with respect to my marriage. But I kept on pushing.
I don’t think you are doing anything “wrong” as it is not you that is in a relationship and you that is cheating, but you are a player in enabling your LO to cross the line. You have a role in that too.
In my case I told LO I was not going to leave SO for him, unless I felt that I was better off without SO (irrespective of wether LO is there or not). LO never told me he wanted me to leave SO for him (also due to my preemptive statement that I wouldn’t anyway). BUT… all I really wanted at that time was for LO to promise me the world, to tell me he wanted me and that he would be there for me going through all that shit (divorce, custody, moving, all the shame snd loss of support) together with me. He didn’t do that and I didn’t want to tell him that I wanted that, I needed him to say all that, because it is what he wants not because it is what I want.
What if he did though? Would I have left SO? In my limerence blinded state I think I would have done that.
Do I think LO and I would have made it? No. Because limerence fades. It wouldn’t have been a happy dating time and even if we would have built a close relationship based on him “rescuing” me from a dark spot (that I got myself into in the first place), I think once reality and normality hit (and we’d have made it that far), limerence would have been gone and we’d split up because there would be nothing left.
Should people stay in an unhappy marriage or give an LO a try? Stats prove that such relationships have a high chance to fail and that one regrets having shattered his/her life for an LO.
Do I regret never telling LO what I wanted or needed? No. Because with everything else, it was me initiating it. I needed him to commit to me on his own, and not just passively go along with what I wanted.
It is over now, and the ending sucked (LO moving onto another LO, but fucked that one up too as she was also in a 10 year relationship – long story that I’ve shared across a few posts)
My question to you is: What do you want? What’s your best possible scenario for you under the current circumstances?
On a side note: Lee prompted me to believe that my LO has BPD (based on comments I’ve made) BPD itself doesn’t fit, but quiet BPD fits him perfectly. That realization has also changed some of my thoughts around my whole LE, as it has brought in a new factor of how and why my limerence started in the first place and also my assessment whether we would in fact have made it or not.
“Do you have a rescue fantasy issue?”
I never knew it was called this, but yes! Every one of my LOs had some broken need and I felt high off of feeling like I was the one meeting it. These needs turned out to be impossible to meet of course leaving me completely drained, empty and lonely.
I had to come back to this article because now that I’m getting better at NC and the LE fog is lifting I’m sensing how much further damage I may have done to an already hurting LO by my quite seductive response. He would constantly say he needed me and my help by having a PA, and I had great great trouble resisting even when it didn’t feel like me or something I would do. I stopped just short of a full-blown PA and haven’t seen him since.
“He may be hurting but it’s not my place to rescue him.” -Dr. L That is an almost impossible truth to teach my limerent brain. I have a rescuer complex. Both of my marriages have been to damaged SOs post-crisis. And LO was giving me a high seeing him smile with me or saying how much he wanted to be with me because he was hurting. I wanted to be the one to rescue him. What’s crazy is that the need they have as a result of their damage is impossible for me to heal!! And I’ve learned that lesson so hard with both of my SOs as I found later I couldn’t handle the effects of their damage and it drained me emotionally, mentally, financially and spiritually.
However if I focus on the possibility that NC is benefitting LO more than having me or me wanting to help him with contact and seductions, it helps me stay sober, if you will. I do care about him, want him to be happy and definitely don’t want to be the source of something so bad for him. I feel terrible that he will probably forever associate me with something negative in his past or that I’ve been a roadblock to healing his damaged past. I feel incredibly selfish.
I did apologize to LO that my behavior was not the kind of support he really is in need of now and took responsibility for my complicity. He responded yesterday morning with a kind text that I acknowledged, but I have remained NC since then for over 24 hours. I’m very proud of myself and trying to keep the momentum for other very important priorities in my life.
If you say don’t think about a pink elephant you’re going to think about one. So I’m accepting that, like grief, he will always be a part of me although the thoughts and feelings may hopefully grow less pervasive.
As a final note—LO initiated NC 10 days ago after a sincere apology for pursuing me in the first place knowing that I not only had a SO but also that he knew love-bombing for a PA only when he didn’t want a relationship broke my heart.
LO was very clear from the onset he didn’t want a relationship, but he sent mixed messages, and hell after all I am a limerent. 😕
I would like to flip this idea on its head, if I may, and propose that it’s my LOs/PLOs who are “people pleasers” and, as a matter of fact, I’m hardwired to fall in love with precisely this kind of man. Chronic people-pleasers of the male persuasion – that’s my limerent “type”.
I’ve been thinking about my gay LO and he’s actually the same as my straight LO – same eyes, same hands. And both could be described as big, friendly, puppy dogs. You know, there’s that anxiety to be liked by everyone they meet, that restless eagerness to please. I’m drawn to these men and, weirdly enough, they’re drawn to me too. There’s chemistry, even if it’s a perverse kind of chemistry. So what the heck is going on? Why am I not attracted to narcissists? (The opposite of people pleasers?) Am I a narcissist myself? Should I even be contemplating such a possibility?
Basically, the thing about people-pleasers is they want to be liked by everyone. They bend over backwards to be kind and accommodating, etc. They have poor boundaries in the sense they do too much for other people/want to make other people happy. They can have a weak sense of self. And often they’re very friendly and selfless, especially in social situations. Throw good looks into the mix and, bam, I’m hooked.
The problem is my limerent brain assumes the kind-hearted behaviour of people-pleasing LOs is directed at me personally (i.e. he likes me and that’s why he’s being so nice). I mysteriously manage to overlook the fact that people-pleasing LO is kind to EVERYBODY because he has some pre-existing psychological need for approval.
My dad is a people-pleaser. He “needs to be needed”. It probably explains why his marriage to my narcissistic/borderline mum was a match made in heaven – at least initially. Both parties were getting their emotional fix.
People-pleasers love me because people-pleasers crave appreciation (and have often been underappreciated in their lives). I’m good with appreciation, not because I’m manipulative, but because I was conditioned from a young age to be an “admiring audience” to my demanding mother. My mother wasn’t interested in me as a kid unless I was bolstering her ego/listening to her grandiose stories. In other words, for me, being generous with praise turned out to be a sound survival strategy which I continued to practise into adult life. (Sheer force of habit).
I think I am both a people-pleaser and a narcissist at the same time! Ouch!!
My relationships with my same-sex LOs are strained for the same reason my relationship with my dad is often strained. These men don’t like to set boundaries, so I have to set boundaries for all of us. It’s exhausting. It makes me “the bad guy”. And when I fall in love with a guy – that makes setting boundaries so much harder. Because, of course, I want to be as close to him as possible.
Ethical dilemma: intimate conduct with a people-pleasing LO. If I approached my gay LO for sex or dating, I’m afraid he would only say yes because he wants to please me, and NOT because he’s limerent for me or strongly attracted to me. I want to be desired; I don’t want to be merely humoured or accommodated. People-pleasers can have very fuzzy motives for their social interactions – fuzzy motives that even they might not be aware of. Ironically, even the “straight ones” can’t give me a “straight answer”.
Logical outcome: I might get what I want, but it wouldn’t feel authentic at the end of the day, because people-pleasing LO lacks the ability to be honest with himself. Also, if I were pushy in the situation, I’d be guilty of exploitation. I don’t want a partner saying yes just because they want me to like them. I want equality. I don’t want to be subtly coerced into playing the “alpha role” that my mother played in her marriage, even if I do share many of her less appealing traits. I don’t want to be bossy, entitled, domineering. That’s not what love is about.
Final verdict: people-pleasing LOs may be the ultimate “good LOs”. However, they still send me round the bend with their indecisiveness. On the other hand, when I look at the situation objectively, I have no choice but to exonerate straight LO for his shifty behaviour. Even though he hurt me and he broke my heart, he did nothing wrong. He was a people-pleaser. He just wanted approval from as many sources as possible. From men. From women. Did the sex/gender/sexual orientation of the people he helped ever cross his mind? Probably not. I understand where he was coming from psychologically now.
I also have better insight into my father – I let him do stuff for me occasionally, run errands, etc. Helping people makes him so happy it’s disgusting. 🙂
Interesting as always Sammy.
My SO is a people pleaser. Which was nice for the first few years (apart from the natural defensiveness and the constant fretting about what other people think). But now that I am such a sure thing, he gets more from pleasing someone else who does not already appreciate him, such as new acquaintance or colleague… ah well, such is married life 🙂
I don’t see people pleasers as the opposite of narcissists… there are some similarities no? Both are vying for the positive feedback of others to feel validated in some way. Sometimes even using the same methods.
At the end of the day, I think we all have a some degree of narcissist and people-pleaser buried inside us as they are fundamental aspects of hard-wired human nature – people pleasing is essential for bonding and social cohesion, a small degree of narcissism helps maintain our self worth. It is how we choose to act on those impulses that define us, not the fact that we have them.
Your father sounds like sweetheart. And your mother? So sorry you had that experience.