In a recent conversation I was asked:
How is limerence different from an emotional affair?
The person asking was a non-limerent.
My first reaction was befuddlement. I mean, obviously limerence isn’t an emotional affair, it’s an emotional state that some people go through. Unless you cross the line from internal thoughts to external deeds, how could an affair be happening? But then I started to wonder a bit more about where the line would be for a non-limerent. If you have never had the experience of utterly losing your mind over someone else, then maybe it would feel like a betrayal to discover that your partner had done exactly that, even though they didn’t mean to. That got me thinking again about how variable the reactions can be to discovering that your SO has an LO. It seems obvious now I’m typing it out, but for a limerent that discovery falls within their “sphere of understanding” – so while it’s definitely unpleasant, it’s not a total shock. For a non-limerent it comes as a one-two combination to the gut.
Not only does the non-limerent have to process the idea that some people get so madly infatuated that their whole lives are overwhelmed, but also that their partner currently feels like that about someone else. Given that extra context, the question makes a lot more sense.
So with the goal of being helpful, I started trying to lay out some objective criteria for what would constitute an emotional affair. Is there a line that can be agreed on by reasonable people that can help guide the two tribes to shared understanding? In escalating order, here are some case studies…
1) All in the mind
This is where I commonly draw the line in terms of culpability. If the limerent is managing the limerence within their head, and not disclosing or externalising the feelings directly or indirectly, I would say the claim of an emotional affair is unreasonable. However, there is a grey area even here. Intent does matter. If the limerent is wilfully and consistently indulging in reverie to the extent that they are neglecting their responsibilities, daydreaming about an alternate life with another partner, and generally seeking escape from their currently life in their imaginary limerence-tinted world, then that’s not great. I still wouldn’t call it an emotional affair, but it’s certainly not a purposeful way to live. If your thoughts and deeds mismatch badly enough, then eventually your behaviour will probably start to reflect your thoughts, or you’ll develop some sort of psychosis. I’ve speculated before about the cognitive dissonance of being in a long-term relationship but developing limerence for someone else – you either confront the truth that you are not being emotionally consistent with your principles, or you risk devaluing your partner to try and resolve the dissonance.
2) Online only
The next stage up from thoughts alone would be online chat. LO is not someone you know IRL, so any connection is in one sense virtual. I’m probably showing my age a bit with this (oh how I bore the kids with my “I remember life before the internet was invented” stories), because online is just as real as real nowadays, but there does seem to be a categorical difference between an LO you can interact with and physically touch, and one who is at the other end of a bunch of fibreoptic cables. Of course, again, conduct is important. If you’re What’s Apping about day to day life and oversharing somewhat, that’s probably OK, but if you’re discussing your spouse’s shortcomings, declaring your ardour for LO (“even though we’ve never met!”), or sending dick-pics, then yeah, that’s not OK. This category gets pretty dark at the extremes. I once had an email from a chap whose wife had emptied their bank account after becoming limerent for a Nigerian scammer. The distinction between real and virtual in that case is pretty immaterial. But it does illustrate that you can even become limerent for an illusion. Can you have an emotional affair with a con artist?
3) An acquaintance without disclosure
This case raises the question of how deeply the LO must be involved for an emotional affair to have happened. If the limerent knows the LO a bit but only sees them in a defined context – say a work colleague or gym buddy or fellow commuter – does this cross the line? If the limerent is actively seeking out that person and considers their short snatches of shared time as the highlight of their day, then that does suggest an excessive connection. Fans of Brief Encounter will know that commuter friendships can escalate, but if the limerence is one-sided, can an emotional affair occur? Again, if the limerent keeps the feelings to themselves, and the LO is oblivious, then I would say that an “affair” like this should only trouble the limerent’s conscience.
4) Friend without disclosure
In the same vein, but with more intimacy, one-sided limerence for a friend blurs the line a little further. I’ve opined at length on the improbability of being an authentic friend to an LO. Friendship requires honesty and intimacy, and the limerent wants more emotional and sexual intimacy than they are letting on. It may be for noble reasons that they hold their tongue, knowing that they have nothing to offer the LO. It may be that they are angry with themselves for not being able to control their feelings, and frustrated at their inability to be a good friend. But ultimately, there is a tragic hopelessness in the attempt to stay friends with someone you crave romantically. You set yourself up as a bit part player in someone else’s story, subordinating your true desires to “not ruining the friendship”, but it’s a friendship that keeps you addicted and stuck. If life were a romantic comedy, you would be the pining sidekick who gets in the way.
Another variant on this theme is a friendship where there is reciprocation and mutual feeling, but neither party discloses it. This certainly has the scope to veer into emotional affair territory, if both “friends” are enabling intimate conversations and emotional bonding, with a thin veneer of plausible deniability. But equally, two people wrestling with unwelcome feelings could just as readily be victims of circumstance as affair partners.
5) Friend with disclosure
This for me is the unequivocal tipping point. In all other cases, there is potential for the limerent to come to their senses, get themselves straight, and re-commit to their primary relationship without any public fallout. Certainly there will be private fallout, and probably damage to the trust of SO that will require genuine remorse to recover. But once disclosure has occurred, then the truth is out, and any pretense of mere friendship is ended. The only time that this would not constitute an emotional affair would be if it represented the end of all contact. If, in contrast, the disclosure does not lead to the end of the friendship, then you and LO have shared a revelation that your SO is excluded from. At that point, it’s no longer credible to pretend that this is anything other than a non-physical romantic affair.
So what does all this add up to? Is there a line that can be objectively drawn? Does the line fall in a different place for limerents and non-limerents? Why are we even trying to draw a line at all? Surely even the act of pulling out a metaphorical pencil proves that there is something illicit about our behaviour. Would an innocent person ever worry about careful definition of boundaries?
I think the most value that can come from this exercise is an increase in self-awareness. Unless you are well practiced at self-analysis, the chances are that limerence will catch you by surprise, and you will find that what started as an enjoyable friendship deepened while you were blithely unaware of the impact your behaviour was having. Many limerents have a triggering moment of realisation that makes them wonder “yikes, have I already gone too far?”.
The way to answer that question is to be honest with yourself about your motives. Are you being deceitful to others about what is going on? Are you trying to ignore the voice of your conscience so you can stay in denial a little longer? Are you reorganising your day to get more time with LO? Any actions that lead to lying to yourself or others are indicators that you know at some deeper level that your behaviour is not OK. That’s the path into an emotional affair, and even if LO is not reciprocating, you are seeking it.
So, as for most things, the answer here is purposeful living. Be honest with yourself. Ask proper questions about your long term relationship. Don’t delegate important decisions about your life to other people and then get moody if they don’t do the right thing. If you know yourself properly, you’ll know where your line is, and there will be much less danger of straying near it.
I am new to this website so I may not be using the terminology correctly, i.e. lots of abbreviations that I becoming familiar with. I am just learning what LE entails and the effects on the LO. I am non-limerent and my limerent partner just broke off the relationship after a year. It left me sad and disappointed in him. So whether is was an emotional affair or not is inconsequential. The important thing is to be honest and to disclose in the early stage of the relationship so that the LO is aware of the “disfunction” especially if both parties are not involved with anyone else. For me honesty is the best policy. This way L0 can make a conscious decision of whether they want to pursue the relationship or not with the limerent individual, given the ramifications. I wish I had had this option! My question is: So is the limerent individual being selfish for emotional gratification at the expense of the reciprocated LO prolonging a relationship that will eventually lead to rupture? This is what I am struggling with.
I will like to discuss this with him so that I can continue to see him as person of integrity rather than someone pursuing self gratification. Any advice will be appreciated.
Hi Frances,
Stimulated by your comment, I’ve put a glossary of terms in the sidebar now. Been meaning to do that for a while.
I think you mean SO (significant other) rather than LO (limerent object) in some of your comment. I’m taking your question to mean is the limerent being selfish by prolonging a relationship with an SO that they are not limerent for. Is that right? If so, then the answer is a bit complicated. Many limerents form lasting healthy relationships with people that they were not limerent for. It doesn’t devalue the relationship in any way. However, if those limerents are not self-aware and run off with the next person that comes along and triggers limerence in them (i.e. a limerent object, LO, arrives on the scene), then yes, that is definitely selfish pursuit of emotional gratification at the expense of their SO.
“It doesn’t devalue the relationship in any way. ”
Isn’t that for the SO to determine? If the SO feels devalued, doesn’t that count?
I mean that the value of a lasting relationship is not diminished by the fact that the limerent didn’t go through limerence mania at the outset (especially if they are the type of person that becomes limerent for Unhealthy People).
I guess if a spouse who was themselves a limerent found out that their partner had not been limerent for them at the outset, they may feel that the relationship was retrospectively devalued, but that seems a bit… misguided.
I find myself so torn about the friends part. I am not in a relationship, neither is the man I am limerent for (as far as I know…he definitely wasn’t at the time when he found out). We aren’t in the same country and can’t be for any time in the foreseeable future. He knows how I feel – it came out in an uncomfortable way through a third party. We both backed away from the friendship at that time, and yet slowly our friendship is healing…with some awkward bumps. The friendship means a lot to me. We were friends without me having any feelings for him for longer than I have been limerent for him. I don’t want to believe that I can’t honestly be his friend. I even tell myself to stop reading this blog because it feels too cut and dry about the subject of limerence and friendship, and yet it feels at the same time like an addiction to see if there is some insight each week that might help me…I am in pain, but the pain feels like it is much deeper than anything to do with him. I can acknowledge some characteristics that he shares with my father, who is fairly unable to love. But it seems wrong for that happenstance to ruin a valuable friendship. I want to peel away the part in me that wishes he felt the same way that I feel, and just understand that I matter to him and he matters to me, as friends, and that is enough. Nothing about third wheels or pining sidekicks – we can go our separate ways as far as romance is concerned. Knowing me I’ll be limerent for someone else in time, but this is a rare friend.
If you would feel hurt if your SO was doing it – it’s over the line. If you know your SO is going to be unhappy at what is going on – it’s over the line. If you believe that limerence sets you apart and makes your feelings just a little more significant by their very nature, and your SO is someqhat pitiable by virtue of lacking your depth of feeling, your capacity and need for passion – you’ve crossed the line.
When your SO has folded, spindled, mutilated and almost sublimated his/her own needs or personality in order to help you over whatever has drawn you away from the life you SAID you want – you’ve crossed the line. Particularly if you’re fantasizing about building that life with LO and SO is looking more and more like something the cat coughed onto the carpet. Maybe for real as the stress of folding, spindling and mutilating oneself is reflected bodily.
My situation was number three (acquaintance without disclosure). Although there were times when I thought often about disclosing, mostly to be able to be rejected and start to “get over it”, I never would have. Given the way that I know LO it would have been totally inappropriate. So, knowing that, and knowing that he will be a peripheral part of my life until my youngest child is done at his school (only another 5.5 years!) or unless LO changes jobs (not at all likely), after about a year of limerence I got myself into therapy. That was the point at which I knew things were out of control and not right. There has never been any inappropriate behaviour between us but the intrusive thoughts, highs/lows, etc. showed me clearly that something was off, that it had mutated from more than just a crush.
After a nine month period of NC last year, and having some of my feelings for LO start to resurface even after his return, I decided to confess to DH this winter. It was the best thing I could have done. I was prepared for him to forbid me from going to the school unless absolutely necessary, and I told him I would do whatever I could to ensure our youngest never gets LO as a teacher. Shockingly, thankfully, he was extremely understanding. Perhaps because I was able to explain the context of the limerence and why it occurred (therapy helped me dig into this: it was largely a response to quite a bit of grief I’d been dealing with), he listened and has been very supportive. It has helped things to improve somewhat. I think I’m as “over it” as I will be while LO is still around so I’m accepting that and not fighting it.
DH said it would have been a big problem had I ever said anything to LO or done anything. But for him, it all being in my head made it…not okay, but not crossing the line into an EA.
To me an EA still has to involve two people in some way. My LE doesn’t qualify.
I’d agree with your assessment, Pudding. You may have known that your feelings went beyond a simple crush, the fact that you never disclosed to LO, but instead confided in your husband, shows that your primary goal was solving the problem not prolonging exposure to LO.
That’s probably the critical deciding factor in whether something is an emotional affair.
This link has one of the most comprehensive list of emotional affair criteria: https://www.yourtango.com/experts/yourtango-experts/emotional-infidelity-18-signs-youre-crossing-line-expert
I was guilty of 2-7, 9-14, 16-18. Because acquaintance was entirely virtual, not all of them are precise fits but are more accurate than not and some were stronger than others. I was aware of many of them but #3 & #11 caught me by surprise.
That was an interesting read, thanks – and basically a long list of examples about how people can become more self aware of their real motives 🙂
Hi LLL,
Just a small word of caution. Being friends may not ever be a good idea, as the limerence is like an infection that can go dormant with NC, but is still in your system, ready to colonize your thoughts once your immune system is compromised by exposure to LO.
I speak from experience.
Hope you can find peace of mind.
Thanks for providing the glossary. It’s helpful. What exactly is limerence mania? Should a SO be compassionate towards their limerent partner or just be pissed off at him for ending a solid relationship unexpectedly? I am torn between the two. I really had a lot of respect for him, but now I am doubting.
I think it’s very possible to be compassionate toward a limerent partner who discloses to you honestly and tries to deal with it. But not if they end your relationship over it. Or you can decide to be compassionate with this former partner–and they should be former now–but don’t consider having a romantic relationship with them again. Unless you like having your chain yanked, in which case maybe you too are a bit limerent.
Thanks Landry. I totally see you point. Although the compassion is there, I won’t ever consider having a romantic relationship with him again. That will be way too much for me to handle. Once trust has been broken, that’s it for me. I am good with being single!!
I am experiencing limerence with a former colleague. We used to sit next to each other for 9months, acutely aware of our mutual attraction (although never disclosed btn both of us, other colleagues used to joke about us being very close). Then he left the company and I was relieved because i was very worried that it will lead to an affair.
I foughtto not contact him thereafter but thought about him constantly.
out of the blue after 2.5years he contacted me again for a coffee and weve been meeting every week for long chats and sometimes whatsapp discussions. Still we have not disclosed our feelings so there is an uncertainty that remains.. he is getting married this year, I am already married with kids. I am stuck and each time I decide to stop contacting him, he will contact me/ and vice versa. When he doesnt contact me, i suffer a lot and become depressed. I constantly think about that man and see no end in this … is the only way out to disclose my feelings? Maybe it was all in my head and thats it. However it might lead to a full blown affair if he discloses that he has feelings too..
I’m sorry to say that disclosure to LO is far from a guarantee of “a way out.” I am familiar with the roller coaster, incessant thoughts, and suffering and depression you speak of. I also remember being willing to do ANYTHING to have these feelings go away. Getting some appropriate counseling, if possible, would be my suggestion. I now know that I needed outside help, but at the time I had no idea what I was dealing with.
I would be interested to know what happened after you disclosed to your LO?
Sara, sorry I missed your question last week.
We worked at the same company for 5 years, and had become good “at-work” friends. We both knew the other cared, but each being married-with-kids and working at the same place felt like they were safe social barriers that would keep things safe. Fast forward to her giving notice at work, and my emotions spun totally out of control unlike anything I’d felt in 20+ years. Constant thoughts of my new LO took over my life (Part 1). How could she leave? If we were to remain friends, then more work would need to be done to keep the relationship going. How would that work?
She kept in touch with me, which got me out of my despair. I went out of town shortly after, and she had a solo weekend at home, and we had text conversations where she admitted some things to me. I reciprocated my feelings a few days later, and my feelings escalated to euphoria and we delved into an EA. What to do now? I vividly remember thinking to myself that this is not going to end well.
Fast forward to a few months later, still the same feelings for each other, but LO shuts down the frequency of contact trying to keep it more “friendly”. Now starts Part 2 of the constant thoughts, depression, high/low thoughts that lasts a year. Then No Contact for 3 months. Now, we have been back in contact for 3 months as she came back to the office part time. I do still miss the closeness to LO, but not nearly as much as I did before going No Contact. My emotions have improved, but I’m not “cured”.
All of that is to say that disclosure to LO will simply take you on a different emotional ride than non-disclosure. Looking back, I absolutely felt compelled to disclose, whether LO did it first or not. In my specific case, I really don’t see how I couldn’t ultimately disclose given my emotional state at the time.
Thinker, I can see some parallels with your story and mine. You say that your emotions have improved. Why do you think this is (no contact, disclosure removing some of the uncertainty, time, all of these)? I feel that my emotions are now a lot more under control than they were previously but I’m wondering if I’m just becoming more durable and getting used to the feelings that come with limerence.
Sara,
I’ll give you the same answer people gave me when I told them about the LE, “Get away from him (her) and stay away from him (her). Stay involved with this man (woman) and this will not end well for you.”
Have you read DrL’s blogs on disclosure?
– “When to disclose”
– “When not to disclose”
– “Should you disclose to your significant other?”
At this point, it doesn’t sound like you’ve done anything to really regret. Disclosure has the potential to really mess up lives, and not just your life.
I disclosed but my LO had no direct ability to affect my life, my LO and I were already well into an emotional affair, and my goal was to end the LE. It probably wasn’t the best idea but I had enough going in my favor that it eventually worked.
The flip response is you have to decide who and what’s really important to you, what it may cost you, how much risk you’re willing to assume to achieve it.
I can tell you from experience that trying to walk the line you’re approaching is likely to become next to impossible. The short answer is to distance yourself from him.
Now, if you want to put the ball in his court, the next time you have one of your meetings ask him, “What do you want from me?” See what he says. It’s a very revealing question. When he asks why you’re asking, tell him you want to know why he came out of the woodwork 2.5 years later while he’s engaged. He must want something.
Then, pay close attention to what he says. You’ll get a response but it might not be an answer. If the question remains when he’s done talking, you got a response. Answers close questions. “I don’t know” is a perfectly valid response but it’s never an answer.
Whatever he says shouldn’t change your mind about distancing yourself but you may have a better idea as to why that is.
Thanks for listening to me and taking time to respond.. its actuallythe first time I talk about it sonce it started in sept 15 so I guess I am finally ready to end it!!
The reason he contacted me is that a few months before, I changed job and moved somewhere close to his job (i had no idea where he was working!).. he heard from a former colleague that i moved there and then asked for my number. After we met back in july, i decided to involve our mutual friend in our meetings… eventually he started again to ask me directly to meet alone without asking our friend as well via in our common whatsapp group… at this point, beginningof december, i knew very well that saying yesto meeting one to one would be the start of something deeper but still said yes … and we started to meet more frequently.
Last week he mentionned taht he was home alone for one week and i thought i will be able to see his real intentions but he asked nothing! So im totally lost! What does he want from me? After resisting his invitations, i came recently to the conclusion that we should take it to the next step and now he seems to have second thoughts… this week he told me he couldnt meet he was busy at work (we have a pattern where each week the other person asks to meet every tuesday!) and itwas my turn to ask… now its probably best to confront him about his intentions?? Sorry for the messy message!!
“After resisting his invitations, i came recently to the conclusion that we should take it to the next step”
Don’t be coy. You want to cheat on your husband.
Dig into why you feel entitled to do that to your marriage and family with a therapist. You haven’t blown up your marriage yet, so consider disclosing to your husband that you have a big embarrassing crush on a former co-worker. The bright light of disclosure can often make these hidden feeling shrivel up and blow away.
Or decide to separate and divorce your husband. Be prepared to have 50% custody of your children and be single. Then you can date & mate anyone you like without lying any further to anyone.
Don’t plan on LO doing anything at all.
With my husband we went through a tough ride recently and its true that i welcomed the Lo when he contacted me for that reason.. it helped me to cope withmy issues athome.
Divorce is out of the question because we have young kids and to be honest i couldnt cope with life alone. But my love for my husband has diminished… i think its because i realised i have a lot more in common with LO than i have with my husband: similar jobs, similar projects, similar mentality, similar hobbies, similar upbringing… in any case even if i was single i wouldnt start anything with the LO because it is impossible to be together : different religion, different culture,…)my family will never tolerate this union and i am pretty sure his familywouldnt neither.
I have decidedto go into NC or be very brief when he asks me for lunch and i will obviously say no.
Hopefully it will die out like this.
“Divorce is out of the question because we have young kids and to be honest i couldnt cope with life alone. But my love for my husband has diminished…”
Are you really saying you are staying with him because you can’t be live alone and be a single parent?
“in any case even if i was single i wouldnt start anything with the LO because it is impossible to be together : different religion, different culture,…)”
But you are entertaining and viewing an affair as an inevitability.
Seriously, go find a therapist and unpack your baggage with someone you do NOT find sexually appealing.
Usual sympathetic response here I see…..
Sara, it seems like you’ve come to the conclusion that this potential union isn’t a good idea and that’s a positive start. NC is the best option for you right now, combined with a focus on your husband and probably an honest conversation about what is working in your marriage and what is not.
Since going NC with my former workplace LO and spending some quality time with my SO I feel like I’m coming out of the fog I was in and back home where I belong. I’m glad I didn’t let the relationship with LO get physical, albeit we crossed emotional boundaries. There’s certainly hope for from this position. Good luck.
If you really want out, get out.
The next time he asks be honest with him. Tell him, “I don’t like where I think this this is going and it’s best we not stay in contact.” It’s disclosure lite. Don’t debate it with him and don’t explain yourself. Wish him well and say goodbye. Or, you can just ghost him. It’s crude and you have mutual contacts that he may try to turn on you but there are consequences to limerence.
Once you’ve done that, you can start looking at the other aspects of limerence.
He may be busy at work, he may not be. After I disclosed to my last LO, she initially wanted to advance the acquaintance vice end it. My anxiety level went through the roof. You don’t know how he’ll respond to confrontation and if you were ready to take it to the next level, he just might agree with you and you turn what may have started as an unintended consequence into a conscious act of betrayal.
And, the thing is, you kicked a snowball off the hill that you didn’t have to.
Thank you i will try the disclosure lite technique. One question though would you say it is okay to do it via text message or better face to face?
If you can do it via text, do it. LO #4 said her goodbye via email. It was a very nice goodbye. One of the best I’ve ever gotten from a woman.
You don’t need to turn this into the final scene of “Casablanca.” Yeah, doing it in person has more style but it will likely make it harder to get over and there’s always the risk he could get you to reconsider saying goodbye and you’re someplace you don’t want to be. See him in person and you’ll be second guessing yourself for a long time.
Then you need to be prepared to block his number, delete him as a friend on FB, Instagram, etc. If you don’t want him appearing in your search string on FB, you’ll have to block him. I blocked LO #2 for that reason and LO #4 blocked me when I asked if it was ok if we not be FB friends, anymore. Then, again, she might have just been being bitchy. If you two have favorite hangouts, you may want to avoid those or change your schedule for awhile.
The only thing better than mitigating risk is avoiding it in the first place.
Hello Drlimerence
I would like to obtain youropinion on my story..
Thank you in advance
I am experiencing limerence with a former colleague. We used to sit next to each other for 9months, acutely aware of our mutual attraction (although never disclosed btn both of us, other colleagues used to joke about us being very close). Then he left the company and I was relieved because i was very worried that it will lead to an affair.
I foughtto not contact him thereafter but thought about him constantly.
out of the blue after 2.5years he contacted me again for a coffee and weve been meeting every week for long chats and sometimes whatsapp discussions. Still we have not disclosed our feelings so there is an uncertainty that remains.. he is getting married this year, I am already married with kids. I am stuck and each time I decide to stop contacting him, he will contact me/ and vice versa. When he doesnt contact me, i suffer a lot and become depressed. I constantly think about that man and see no end in this … is the only way out to disclose my feelings? Maybe it was all in my head and thats it. However it might lead to a full blown affair if he discloses that he has feelings too..
The reason he contacted me is that a few months before, I changed job and moved somewhere close to his job (i had no idea where he was working!).. he heard from a former colleague that i moved there and then asked for my number. After we met back in july, i decided to involve our mutual friend in our meetings… eventually he started again to ask me directly to meet alone without asking our friend as well via in our common whatsapp group… at this point, beginningof december, i knew very well that saying yesto meeting one to one would be the start of something deeper but still said yes … and we started to meet more frequently.
Last week he mentionned taht he was home alone for one week and i thought i will be able to see his real intentions but he asked nothing! So im totally lost! What does he want from me? After resisting his invitations, i came recently to the conclusion that we should take it to the next step and now he seems to have second thoughts… this week he told me he couldnt meet he was busy at work (we have a pattern where each week the other person asks to meet every tuesday!) and itwas my turn to ask… now its probably best to confront him about his intentions?? Sorry for the messy message!!
Hi Sara,
There are two things that strike me about your situation: the first is that it is hard to make good decisions in the presence of LO, so it is wise to go no contact for a while if you can. The second is that you seem to be looking to others to make decisions about your own life and fate, which is possibly why you are in so much emotional turmoil.
My guiding principle here is “purposeful living”, meaning making the decision to actively redirect your life towards the things that you care about and value. Not divorcing because your parents, culture or children would disagree, is not a good basis for staying in an unhappy marriage. Hoping that with some hints and anxious waiting, your LO may initiate an affair is also not a purposeful choice. However, it may be that there is actually a part of you that is using these excuses to not have to confront the really difficult underlying issue: you don’t know what you want.
I don’t mean this as a criticism. Many, many people are in the same boat. Really, the only way out of it is to do the deep work of trying to understand yourself better, trying to understand what really matters to you most, and being honest with yourself about the kind of person that you want to be.
Letting LO make decisions for you is not going to solve the root problems – even more so when you just end up cross that he didn’t make the one you expected. I would recommend you try to minimise contact, but most importantly, that you start to also take control over your own fate. Small decisions at first are good – maybe to spend more focussed time with your children and less time hanging on a text from LO. But without that step of understanding where it is you want to be, it’s impossible to determine which is the right direction to take…
Thank you all for your inputs.. so ive tried NC which didnt last long on this occasion (2 weeks yay) . he asked to go for lunch once which i refused and two days later a second time .. at that point i accepted.. was upset with myself that i cant resist!
Friendly talk as usual but i noticed an interesting thing this time that is that he talks about his fiance a lot … he mentioned he wants to get her a nice present for her birthday.. other times he mentionned her to complain about her .. anyway i just realise it now for some reasons! i willtry next round a 3 weeks NC ! It just makes me wonder if he needs me for his self esteem because he feels my crush and is just very narcissic .. this idea will definitely help me with NC this time as it got me angry! Forgot to mention he touched briefly my hand to lookat my rings ! So he obviously want to keepthegame/uncertainty going :((
Happy Pi day all! May Pythagoras and Euler wish your limerences to get better!
I think if I could take only one nugget of wisdom from this site, it would be along the lines of “you can’t be friends with someone you have romantic feelings for”, as this article says. Even more true for limerents. In the movies, such entanglements are cute; in real life, such entanglements can become painful and very destructive.
Sammy,
…and I think the sad thing (from my experience) is that when I look back such friendships were inauthentic. I wasn’t really my LOs friend. Maybe it started that way, but once an LE is in full flight I was using that person as well… an object of lust & longing. I wasn’t the same person my other friends would recognise, or unbiased or genuinely openly me. I always ended up trying to be the version of me that I hoped they’d like most. Still a version of me, but constantly curated and (in light of they’re interests) amended – ‘oh I love that TV show too!’ Followed by rushing home and binging all 12 seasons of 24 episodes of stuff I couldn’t care much for just so we’d have stuff to talk about.
I look back and feel sad because that dynamic didn’t nurture like a supposedly close friendship should. It was roleplay.
“I wasn’t the same person my other friends would recognise, or unbiased or genuinely openly me. I always ended up trying to be the version of me that I hoped they’d like most. Still a version of me, but constantly curated.”
@Thomas. Thank you for sharing this, mate. I’ve been looking for a way to say the exact same thing and you say it quite well.
“It was roleplay.”
Yes, absolutely. The person I am around LO. Playacting. Roleplay. There’s something stagey and staged about it. I try to be an impossibly shiny version of myself and it’s dishonest and must come across as unnatural. Even more humiliating when it fails to have much impact on an LO!! (What? I’m “perfect” and you still don’t want me?) 😛
My question is over limerence. My so and i had been together for 8 years when he decided to tell me he had been in love with his lo for the last 5 years.
He said it had been over with us for a long time and i should have known this. He had also flirted (in front of me ) with and slept around (not with his lo )
toward the last few months of us being together.
I got with someone else, he passed away a while ago.
Stupid me believing the so was over his lo we got back together. His non-employed self living with me only for me to find out he is still in love with his lo. She will be locked up over the next ten years so not much chance him seeing her.
I love this man but with everything he has done I’m finding it very difficult to forgive.
To him she is the most beautiful woman (she is very pretty) Perfect person in the world he fantasizes about them being together.
He’s went as far as telling me that he should be a rock star (he plays guitar) with his lo standing right beside him.
He doesn’t think he’s hurt me, and continues to do so. He broke off our engagement I don’t understand how he does not see how badly he has hurt me.
Does limerence always end or do some people live out their lives in this fantasy world they have conjured up in their mind?
@Stephanie. Sorry to hear how difficult things are for you right now, and that your SO has hurt you so deeply by being limerent for someone else.
“Does limerence always end or do some people live out their lives in this fantasy world they have conjured up in their mind?”
I think the answer to this question is different for different people. Limerent episodes usually end for me because LO doesn’t want me and/or I transfer those feelings onto a new person before anything happens between LO and me. But some people can spend many years or their entire lives in fantasy. For that to occur, however, they’d have to get some positive reinforcement from their LO.
Do you think your SO’s LO even knows he has limerent feelings for her or do you think she’s ignorant and he’s just projecting his own emotional stuff onto her?
Hi Dr Limerence,
I really need help in my situation. Thank you in advance for any reply and help in my difficult situation.
I just found out that my husband of 3 yrs have been cheating on me with a co-worker. They worked together in a small office. He had been staying late at work and had been confiding to his 3 female co-workers (2 married, 1single), about our marital problems, his dissatisfaction with his married life and he blamed me for everything. He got so close to this female single co-worker. All his co-workers were telling him that he did his part in our marriage and it’s time to move on. They were also aware of the extreme closeness of my husband to this single co-worker. I think this is when they started their emotional affair. Prior to this (6 months before), this female single co-worker broke up with his BF, and my husband was giving her advice and helping her cope.
Now, after finding out about the infidelity, I saw their text messages to each other professing their love for each other with “i love you very very much”; I confronted him and he left and chose the affair partner. Looking at his phone records, I saw that the regular texting to each other really just started 1 month before me finding out about it. I was so surprised that my husband just said, “Okay”, and chose his affair partner without any remorse or guilt. He talked to me about how happy they both were and already made plans for the future -getting married within the year, buying a house together, baby plans on hold at the moment, and how they will travel together back/forth to work as they worked together, and save money. He is now living with her but can’t officially move in as the girl wants to wait 3 months but he’s been sleeping there daily.
Now, I realized this could possibly be limerence, right? He told me about his affair partner (LO) saying to him “where have you been all my life”, “we are so perfect for each other”, “i found my soulmate” and “they have strong connections they can’t ignore”.
So, my question is they both have limerence and emotional affair that led to this infidelity and him leaving me? How could this happen within one month or it has been going on for a while? My husband just started working full time in this company 1 month prior to the start of the affair, but was working 1x/week for 1 year before becoming full time. I remember he would mention this girl (affair partner now) at times and how she would call him her “work husband”. Now, i don ‘t know who experienced limerence here first, the girl or my husband? She was the reason why my husband got the full time job there.
Thank you!
I’m not Dr L but as a husband limerent for another woman, your story sounds like just plain infidelity to me. I take that from his cavalier attitude towards your two’s previous relationship.
Perhaps that is because being limerent for almost two years (9 of those months in her absence, she’s a former co-worker) I have always tried to do the right thing in regards to my marriage. I may not be able to always police my thoughts the way I should and find myself sometimes thinking of LO too much. But I have always tried to keep my actions in line with company policy and being a married man.
I also in hopes of getting help when the limerence got real bad after LO quit and moved on to another job, disclosed to my wife the day I learned about limerence in hopes that she could help me and be a sort of chaperone to my behavior. I have not contacted LO since she left in June and she has only contacted me once about 2 months after she left to see how I was doing.
The fact that he seems that he has done zero to stop this co-worker relationship from escalating makes me think that he just doesn’t care about you or your marriage and would have cheated eventually even if it weren’t with this woman. But that’s just my two cents from the information you posted. Dr L is much more qualified to judge your account.
And I am sorry that this has happened to you Hippos. I feel guilt enough for having limerence outside of my marriage. I can’t imagine the hurt having a PA with another woman would have on my wife.
Hi Adam,
thank you so much for giving me your insight into my situation. I am kind of confused too as I don’t know if they are in limerence or just really fell in love with each other so deeply? or is it Emotional affair initially as my husband was confiding in her about our marriage and fell in love? I really hope Dr. L would see my story and give me some insights. Thank you!
I apologize for my dissenting opinion. Ive only had knowledge of limerence for two months since I have discovered this site despite my limerence for over a year for this woman.
But never of any account that I’ve read have I heard a limerent being as callous as your partner. Most limerents even when they don’t understand still realize something is amiss. I knew it was something more than a crush for my LO long before I gained the knowledge I have since.
I’ve know many men being as cavalier about their interactions with other women in regards to their partner. And it really gets my goat up when a man treats a lady like that. I’m not really in a position to feel that way in regards to my recent shortcomings but I’m at least trying to make amends.
Whichever your case is there is a lot of great helpful people here that are willing to help you. Miss Lovisa is a regular poster here and she always has the kindest most helpful words to give. Hopefully she will see your plight and comment. She has an incredible insight on limerence.
I’m sorry, Hippos, I was avoiding your post on purpose. It triggered something in me and I didn’t think I could help you. I’ll share my reaction. It is not the same as the other commenters, but it could give you something to think about.
I am surprised by how quickly and easily your husband moved on. I am especially surprised given that you are both catholic. I recognize how serious marriage is to the average catholic. Your husband’s pursuit of divorce is a big deal. It says something about his level of desperation. I keep thinking that married life was very unpleasant for him. I don’t know what problems you two faced. You spoke of your three years of marriage as a struggle. Maybe it’s a struggle that he can’t handle anymore. It’s possible that his departure is not about running to this other woman but about running from you. I am so sorry to point that out to you. It must hurt and that is why I was silent. I could be wrong. I want to tell you some things I have seen in other women that I don’t like in regards to how they treat their husbands.
My mom still hates my dad passionately. She never has a kind word to say. If I stand up for my dad, she might force herself to say something nice, but it feels icky when she does it. My dad says their marriage was the same way. He couldn’t do anything right in her eyes. Now that my mom is older and needs my help more, she lives with my family. I frequently find myself thinking that I couldn’t stand to be married to her either. She just doesn’t care how her actions affect others. It’s hard. How long am I obligated to suffer before I say, “Sorry, I can’t take this. You have to go live with one of your other kids or in a care center.” My dad got to the point where he couldn’t take it either. He really tried to endure. But a lovely, kind woman was interested in him and my mom was just plain mean. I used to be angry at my dad for leaving, but now I think it may have been for the best.
One of my girlfriends confided in me that she was finalizing her divorce. My heart broke for her. I asked how long they were struggling. She said, “Three years ago, he told me that his emotional needs weren’t being met.” I naively asked, “What have you tried?” I assumed she was making desperate attempts to meet her husband’s needs. She said, “Why should he get his needs met? I have unmet needs.” I was shocked. How could she be so heartless towards another human being?
I feel like some women just expect their husbands to be a certain way and they don’t care how he feels about it. It honestly pisses me off. My LO2 has been enduring a sexless marriage for almost 30 years. As a young husband, he was determined to make his marriage work because he meant his vows. He thought they would work through their problems. They still have the same problems because she isn’t willing to work. She has everything she wants, but he suffers. I feel like he is trapped. It causes depression in him. He lives with a constant feeling of rejection. He says stuff like “I’m not a real man and that’s why my wife doesn’t want me.” Oh, it just makes me so angry that she has no concern for his feelings. To her credit, LO2 thinks her lack of empathy is attributed to her being on the autism spectrum. Okay, fine, but she can cognitively process how her actions effect him and she is capable of coming up with a plan to soothe him. She chooses not to.
So my first thought about your situation is, your marriage must have been awful for a Catholic man to flee so quickly. Maybe you were a bad wife.
Here is what I would suggest for you because you don’t have to be a bad wife. I recommend that you check out Alison Armstrong or John Grey. They are relationship experts. They might help you learn how to treat men. When you learn how to treat men, the world becomes a wonderful place! Men are amazing creatures! They are committed and loyal. They love making women happy. It’s their favorite activity. They will do anything to make their women happy. Seriously, learn the skills because everyone benefits.
If you want to save this marriage, I think your best resource would be Marriage Helper. Specifically learn about SMART contact and PIES.
Hippos, your actions have consequences. Consider how you treat others.
And please listen to what the men on this site say about their marriages. Learn how their SO’s actions effect them. The men on this site are good and kind. They are trying really hard to do the right things. Listen to them.
Good luck and sorry to be such a downer. I really do hope the future is bright for you
Dear Hippos,
Also not Dr. L, but I hope he sees your comment and responds.
I want to start off by saying how incredibly sorry I am that you are going through this. No one deserves to be treated like this. Your husband’s behavior is horrific. I can only imagine that your world is spinning right now, and I truly hope you have a support system at home to lean on.
I thoroughly disagreed with Adam. To me this sounds exactly like Limerence. Limerence can look and feel very different for different people. However, it is characterized by an all consuming desire to be with or think about another person. Some people do crazy things when they are in the throes of an LE. Other people resist the temptation of an affair. Regardless, your husband’s behavior is frightening.
For you right now the main thing is getting support. Do you have a regular doctor? I recommend seeing them and explaining the circumstances. Hopefully, they can get you in touch with a good therapist. Do you have family and friends that you can rely upon? Can you get people to stay with you at your house if you are feeling particularly upset?
I do not know you or your husband, but I imagine that right now, if he is in the throes of Limerence, he is not thinking clearly. As a result, he may say things to you that are incredibly cruel and thoughtless. Please try not to engage with him without support.
You may or may not be able to figure out why he is engaging in this behavior. You may not be able to change his behavior or make him see reason. The most important thing is to take care of yourself.
Again, I am so sorry this is happening to you. Please take care of yourself. You did not deserve this… and although it may take a long time- you will get through this.
Hi Arden,
Thank you so much for your insight and comforting thoughts and advice. Yes, I left our house as soon as I found out and haven’t been home since, and I gave him 2 weeks to move out. But he was actually staying with his LO after I found out. He just said that if he can stay at our house for 2 more months as he can’t move in with her yet.
To be clear, looking at our phone records, the regular texting and calls started 2nd week of January 2023 up to now and I found out about it first week of February but I had my suspicions already. To me, it was s fast that he completely fell out of love for me and now have future plans with another woman in a span of 1 month!
Good thing we have no kids as we have been trying to have kids for the past 3 years. I told myself that I don’t know this man anymore as he has changed. He used to love me very much and would pursue me whenever we have fights. We have been through a lot as a couple but we were able to withstand all the hard trials in our 3 year marriage.
This time, he said I pushed him away, he reached his limit, and it is all my fault that led him to have an affair. We are both religious, catholic and he said he has been praying for help every night and this is the answer to his prayers. He doesn’t want counselling as well or even to talk to our priest, whereas before, he would be the first one to initiate this.
I really hope Dr L would see my post and give me some insight!
Is this a regular infidelity, limerence, emotional affair with limerence? I really know that I can’t snap him out of this. He wants to divorce ASAP.
correction: texting started 2nd week of December 2022 to present!
Hello Hippos,
I have been thinking about you often throughout the day. The more you tell about your story, the more I can see the depths of your husband’s betrayal.
To begin with, I am so sorry about your experience with IVF. Most people who has gone through IVF or is close to someone who has knows what a grueling journey that is. You deserve love and support during this time. I hope you are getting that from friends and family.
I did want to say a quick word about this website. Many of the people who post here are actively trying to deal with their limerence and resisting the pull of an affair. Not everyone- but many of us have chosen to stay committed to our so and use this site as a support network. As such- you may be seeing a somewhat skewed version of limerence.
In the real world, many of us have seen limerants blow up their world (like your husband) over the “love of their life.”
In my personal experience, it is very hard to mend a relationship when someone has acted in such an abusive manner.
Marriage is hard! There are ups and downs. Your husband has proven to you that he is not mature enough to walk this path in life.
No one deserves to be treated in this manner. All marriages have issues. Not all spouses leave over an infatuation. And limerence is at its heart an infatuation.
Please get support. This may not be the best site for you as most of the people are limerants and may in fact not fully understand what it feels like to be on the other side of the equation.
I also strongly recommend that you speak to a lawyer immediately and stop all communication with your husband. This is really important as texts, emails and voicemails can be used in court. If you do indeed end up getting a divorce there are many ins and outs that a lawyer can help you navigate.
Finally, please tell yourself that you did not deserve this. Your husband’s limerence is most likely to do with his own issues. Please know that you will get past this. It might feel like your world is ending but it isn’t. I know the people on this website are rooting for you and wishing you the best.
Hippos, I too am sorry you are experiencing this. Your husband should have dealt with his marriage first before diving into an affair. That’s on him. And it does sound like mutual limerence with this woman based on the speed that it is all happening.
You didn’t really say, but it sounds like you are in the process of divorce if he is talking about marrying this other woman? And you don’t have kids? It also sounds like there was/is a lot of turmoil in your marriage over the last few years?
I don’t know your back story with this man or the details of your marriage but it sounds like he checked out emotionally of your marriage a while ago and has found someone he now connects with romantically on multiple levels. And to be honest, the limerence will fade and thus all may come crashing down or it may turn into lasting long term love. He’s making new plans for the future so it is clear he has fully moved on. Again, I’m sorry.
I would find a therapy group to be involved in to start the healing process and start moving on with your life as well.
Again, on the limited info you described it just sounds like a marriage filled with turmoil (maybe no one’s fault) that was destined to fail and he made the first movie. An a-hole move for sure, but still a move.
Hi Speedwagon,
Thank you for your reply, insight and comforting advice and thoughts.
Yes it is true we have been through so much in our short 3 year of marriage. We have been through counselling but not much has changed. My husband has some anger issues and anxiety. I have given him so much love and understanding throughout our marriage and for him to have an affair and leave me at the lowest point of my life (the day of my failed IVF) is really hard to swallow. We have been trying fertility treatment for so long that it has taken a toll in our marriage.
And for this other woman to be open to an affair knowing our problems and issues is beyond me. To hear my husband say that “she is his perfect match or soulmate” is really painful to hear. Not long time ago, I remember my husband saying that to me as I am his soulmate.
Are they in limerence both? How could anyone be so in love for 1 month and making future plans already? they are together 24/7 now as they work in a small office and live together. This will increase their limerence, right? instead of it fading, it will increase in intensity and hope is lost for my husband to get out of it and for the LO to wake up as well…
I really hope, Dr L will see this post and comment for some help. Thank you so much!
Hippos,
Sorry to hear about your situation.
DrL’s attention is elsewhere at the moment so a response from him might be delayed.
Please don’t take it as a sign of not being interested.
Miss Lovisa,
I woke up early this morning and our female cat jumped up on me to lay on my chest. Id fallen asleep on the recliner and momma was asleep on the couch from watching a movie together last night. The cat paws and noses on me for attention. I say out loud “ok little one im sorry im not use to a woman wanting attention from me” to which I hear a response from I thought my sleeping wife “well maybe if you hadnt broken your wedding vows you would”. It was bad of me to say. But she said it to hurt me too.
I think it’s good for you two to open the doors of communication. I hope it stays open for a bit. That’s a cute story, by the way. Your wife is kinda clever.
Here’s what you do…
You say, “You feel like I betrayed my vows because I had big feelings for LO. I can see why you feel that way.” See what happens next. If it feels right, say this. “I hope someday we get past this because I love you and I want to be with you. Do you have any ideas how we can move forward?”
Adam,
You took a cheap shot and she fired back.
Sorry, you own that one.
Yeah I deserved it.
Adam, I’m not sure you deserved “wedding vows” comment. That comment concerns me because it feels like a warped sense of reality. From everything I understand of your story, you did not engage in any type of affair with your LO and have been nothing but forthright with your wife about your feelings. I don’t like her perception of you or the situation at all.
Exactly! Well said, Speedwagon. But he can’t change her. Maybe a little validation will help. Maybe if she feels heard, she’ll let it go.
Speedwagon
This is difficult for her. I don’t think she actually understands limerence. Maybe she doesn’t want to, I’m not sure. But voluntary or not my limerence is my responsibility. I have to own it and make amends for it.
Ironically I don’t think I’d have an issue with her supposedly having limerence for another man as long as she got in the same bed with me each night. Im not delusional enough to think no other man is capable of sparking fires within my wife.
Also said cat is laying on my chest now again and I cant reach my drink I just made. Also momma says cat lays on my chest and stretches out her paws to lay over my heart because she can sense its irregular beating due to my afib.
Adam! You aren’t taking care of your heart?!? Stop it! Go for a walk. Today! Now! I want to hear about it. I’m serious. Now!
Miss Lovisa
I’ve had two procedures done (I forget the terminology) and am now on medication since it was found in 2019. My latest appointment was just last month and its been good enough news my doc put me on an annual visit finally. Later in the week the weather seems its going to warm up and I will resume my daily walks. I’m just not good with the cold. But I can take the heat.
Go anyway.
I ran a 50k in snow and rain on New Year’s Eve. You can walk in the cold.
Ready? Set? …. Go!
What medical qualifications do you have, Lovisa?
Frederico is getting sassy. I like it!
Lol, I have no medical qualifications. I base my encouragement of Adam’s exercise on the information he shared. He implied that he can walk and it is his favorite form of exercise, but he doesn’t like the cold. Maybe I’m wrong, but I think the real man behind the internet name “Adam” is capable of going for a walk in the cold. And I think it would be good for him because going for walks is good for almost everyone.
I’m willing to be wrong here, but…well…I’m not.
Now who’s the sassy pants?
Ok Miss Lovisa I will take a walk tomorrow. Lord knows my inability to say no to a woman hasn’t ever got me in trouble before now has it young lady? Hmmm?
Lol! I can’t wait to hear about it…. Thank you.
I am all for patience with limerents, as it certainly seems like some sort of mental health issue is always present. However, there’s a whole lot of people disassociating from their own actions. Adam in the comments above is one of the few to really say it well: “But voluntary or not my limerence is my responsibility. I have to own it and make amends for it.”
As you can tell, I’m a wife who has been emotionally betrayed. Thank God my husband didn’t use the same logic and language as others here. He took Adam’s approach and has done the hard work. I would have been gone a long time ago if just blaming limerence and taking no ownership and I’m very sure I’m not the only aggrieved spouse to feel that way.
So this isn’t a rebuke of the entire limerence idea, it’s a reminder that doing the hard work to make amends for the devastating effect on your partner or spouse has to be your priority if you want to stay in the relationship. If you want to stay, get into therapy immediately and also communicate clearly and frequently with your spouse. Or be honest if you really think the relationship is over, because that counts as hard work as well.
And non-limerent spouses/partners – if they’re doing the hard work and you want to save the relationship, then you have to decide if you want this to work. If you do want it to work and you say you forgive them, then you have to mean it. No take-backsies. Go to couples or individual therapy if you that will help. You might think it’s unfair that you have to do anything, but that’s life. And you have to be honest if you can’t forgive and need to end things. I lost two years being angry at him instead of getting therapy to help me get to the point of forgiveness that I so desperately wanted. And even though I might sound bitter, I truly forgave him and we’ll celebrate 28 years of marriage in July. But he did the work to allow me to get to that point, and now we honestly are closer than before.
Thanks for that Jackie D! Well said and very true. To take on the responsibility is not simply hard, it can also be empowering as one is not a victim but can take it into hands and change it to save what’s really important in life.
Wow that comment was over a year ago. Jackie thank you for the kind words. I didn’t always have the proper stance I do now. It has taken time for me to come to my senses and want to fix what I had done. I would be quite embarrassed for you to see some of my older comments when I first started posting here.
I am very glad to hear that you and your husband are working through this. My wife like you are very gracious in allowing us to make amends. Thankfully we are doing well together again.
“But he did the work to allow me to get to that point, and now we honestly are closer than before.”
I think so too, with my wife but I would rather have not had to go through it still. I have even hurt my sons. I know our youngest will never see me the same again for what I did to his mother. The prices I pay for my foolishness. “You say I’m crazy cause you don’t think I know what you’ve done.” I called her crazy for thinking anything was going on with this other woman. I now beat that song into my head multiple times a day to remind myself. We sleep in the same bed again because of her grace. I shut off my early alarm this morning and spent more time laying there with her. She grabbed my arm and pulled me to her.
I know I am among the minority here in coming to the conclusion limerence is a curse. I managed to mangle with two women’s minds. Not my better moments in life. I have striven to make amends. We had Chinese food last night. Sat in the bed together and watched a movie. Well the start of one; I fell asleep before it was over. We will be having 25 years in October.
“However, there’s a whole lot of people disassociating from their own actions.”
Yeah,
That periodically happens here. Tolerance and acceptance can drift into enabling. It wasn’t like that in the early days. There was more tough love. A lot more.
Right now, LwL is in “kinder and gentler” phase and has been for awhile. It’s common for people to get stuck and go around in circles. Hang around here long enough and you’ll see who’s going to make it, who isn’t, and who might, depending on their actions and events, like their LO going off script.
But, as adults, people have agency. They make their choices and they live with the consequences. If they’re lucky, as I was, they don’t take anybody with them.
LE,
Totally agree with what you wrote here.
Chasing limerence is a choice.
Walking away is very difficult. Getting over it takes time. And one has good and bad days, and the path to recovery isn’t linear. But the person has to want to recover.
And continuing to communicate with the LO and have the LO in one’s life — I’ll just send a email every now and then, etc. — doesn’t work. You can’t have your cake and eat it, too.
We’re going carnivore here! No sugar! 🙂
Thanks, Marcia!
The spiritual, metaphysical, romantic, philosophical musings on limerence can be pretty cool. The discussion on MBTI types and limerence are really interesting. You can use LEs to inspire grand opera and epic poetry, or in my case limericks.
But, they’re luxuries of limerents who can afford to indulge in them…limerents whose lives haven’t suffered too severe direct consequences or limerents who have severely negatively impacted the lives of somebody else.
We have posters on LwL who have allegedly:
– been fired after their LO filed an HR complaint against them
– been disbarred after having an LE with a client
– given equity positions in their company to their LO
– moved out on their wife and family
– was willing to give up half the assets she worked her life for to divorce her unrepentant LO husband
– had their LO spouse move out on them
– cut a deal for a “one time pass” to sleep with anyone of their choice (I don’t know if either party ever cashed in)
DrL says that limerence isn’t all bad. Limerents can have positively delightful LEs. You just probably won’t find them posting here. I can’t remember anyone ever saying,
“I found this place because I wanted to know what was causing all the joy and contentment in my life and limerence was it!!!”
Circling back to Jackie’s comment:
Limerence comes with a lot of cognitive dissonance and a lot of posts seem aimed at managing that cognitive dissonance. Jackie picked right up on that. To paraphrase Dr. Marilyn Solomon, more than a few posters here aren’t seeking real change, they’re looking to become comfortable in their current pathology.
After all, this place is called “Living with Limerence.”
Song of the thread: “Twilight Zone” – Golden Earring (1982)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjMY1b8FrLI
“Soon, you will come to know
When the bullet hits the bone”
Oh, and I left out:
– Contemplated suicide
Hi Marcia and Limerent Emeritus
You guys are very keen on the tough love, so in the interests of balancing all that out:
Those examples you chose were extreme, LE. I think that the majority are somewhere in the middle, can see that their LE has had good and bad points.
We’ve also had posters on here who have:
– distracted themselves from life+death issues with an LO (not intentionally looking for it, obviously)
– created poetry (including epic poems), songs, and some very helpful psychological insights into their motivations in life
– used limerence to work on themselves / discover what makes them tick, and in the process, overcame some challenging childhood experiences
The thing is that, yes, most of stumbled on here when we realised that we had a problem and that things got out of control. Most of us got educated about what was going on via this site. Then, (after it was too late and the LE was already underway), we swopped strategies and stories to help manage it. For those of us with SOs, of course they are always the priority, they just aren’t always on-topic regarding the core “management” task. Executive brain generally has not left the building.
In the process of all of the above, we have also met a community of like-minded questioning and thoughtful individuals (call them INF% whatever, I myself am ISFJ), who we enjoy interacting with. So maybe things veer a bit off course, in the process. Is that bad? There is usually someone online to pick up and respond to a new visitor who is in turmoil. That might not happen if the site was – let’s say – a bit more ‘tough’.
I might not have stuck around, let’s say.
“I found this place because I wanted to know what was causing all the joy and contentment in my life and limerence was it!!!”
No more than most alcoholics never seek rehab until they hit rock bottom. Like you said “comfortable in their current pathology”. That’s why we have terms like “functioning alcoholic” because people usually don’t seek help until the problem is detrimental to them.
That’s why you see committed people in dire straights finding this place as a haven. Either to confront it or revel in it. It took accusations of an affair before I came to realize I needed to find help. And when I first came here I was just seeking justification for my current (at the time) pathology of limerence.
As I have said before this place for some of us is a tight rope walk. Too much reminiscing can turn into rumination very easily. Fond memories turn into two steps back. I would know. I use to do it all the time. I think that is the advantage that Dr L has in running this blog and being objective; his limerence was pleasant. Mutual with his now wife. It was a positive experience so he doesn’t risk what the other 99% of other posters do being here.
Adam,
But Dr L was limerent for a co-worker too while married, but disclosed to his wife and worked through it, I think he knows also the downsides.
Every coin has two sides, one can’t just focus on one side due to one’s own specific LE experiences.
If one’s executive brain stays in the building no matter what, then it’s even challenging to “fall”…
Consider what I’ve gained by coming here, I do not regret any of my LE… I highly appreciate the “gentle love” of the site and its democratization of ideas…
@Biwhitched:
I second your thoughts here…
I will “walk” into another LE (better manage its downs with acute awareness, zero expectation, and meditations), if Glimmer comes again along my way, realistic or imaginary…
(Too busy lately to work on the “chapters”… to be continued)
LE,
“Thanks, Marcia!”
YW. 🙂
“The spiritual, metaphysical, romantic, philosophical musings on limerence can be pretty cool. The discussion on MBTI types and limerence are really interesting. ”
I agree.
“But, they’re luxuries of limerents who can afford to indulge in them…limerents whose lives haven’t suffered too severe direct consequences or limerents who have severely negatively impacted the lives of somebody else.
We have posters on LwL who have allegedly:
– been fired after their LO filed an HR complaint against them
– been disbarred after having an LE with a client
– given equity positions in their company to their LO
– moved out on their wife and family
– was willing to give up half the assets she worked her life for to divorce her unrepentant LO husband
– had their LO spouse move out on them
– cut a deal for a “one time pass” to sleep with anyone of their choice (I don’t know if either party ever cashed in)”
I’d forgotten about those specific consequences. At the end of the day, I don’t see how limerence can’t affect an SO or an LTR. The limerent is completely focused on someone else. That’s what limerence is. It’s not an attraction. It’s not a crush. It’s an obsession with someone else that goes far beyond any of that.
Bewitched,
“The thing is that, yes, most of stumbled on here when we realised that we had a problem and that things got out of control. Most of us got educated about what was going on via this site.”
I got educated on what limerence was, yes. And how it’s probably been a lifelong pattern and childhood issues are probably what caused it (and also my peronsality type). And all of these discoveries have really helped.
But I didn’t need a site to tell me I had very strong feelings for a married man. And I didn’t need site to tell the best course of action was to back away.
My post was in response to a specific comment from Jackie.
I think she has a point. Some limerents are candid about their limerence and the limerent and their SO come to terms with it. Some SOs of limerents don’t like it all and do something about it. If you look at the definition of “dissociation,” it’s a clinical definition of cognitive denial. The problems simply don’t exist.
Except when they do.
We’re all adults and are entitled to deal with limerence in our own way.
Limerence for singles is different. Usually, they only can harm themselves.
Hi L.Emiritus, yes you have a point that Jackie soberly raised in her comment.
You also said
“more than a few posters here aren’t seeking real change”
LwL and the community being helpful, kind and understanding has most certainly supported many folks on their day-to-day struggles and helped them from doing crazy things such as entering affairs, disclosing etc. That must be a positive for those in the early realisation they are limerent and for those lingering (indulging some may say). I do see the community dishing out tough love, be very blunt or present ultimatum scenarios in some instances.
LE,
“Limerence for singles is different. Usually, they only can harm themselves.”
I would use the word “suffer” to replace “harm” — Usually, single limerents only suffer themselves, no SO to “harm”.
Harm is just purely negative; but one may learn from one’s suffering. Pains and sufferings (mostly unnecessary) are a part of human conditions — the default of life.
I can’t imagine that “taken” limerent with a SO is able to write an epic poem or love sonnets…. Their mind is split between their limerence and cultural scripts, no room for ‘pure’ creativity.
Nevertheless, we feel tbe censure 💪😰😖
Maybe we should start sub sites for those with limerence for a coworker, those with limerence over social media, those whose SOs are limerent, those who are over it and are looking back from a distance, those who want tough love, those who want to vent, those who want gentle encouragement and cheerleading to wean off in their own time, those with philosophical leanings, etc etc
But that sounds like a whole load of echo chambers – whereas diversity is what makes LwL so great and so effective. I can go through all the iterations of that list within 24 hours all by myself 😭😂🤔
That’s great to hear, Bewitched, because it’s what I aim for. I also lean towards tough love – I prefer “unsentimental compassion” as a descriptor – and sometimes feel an impulse to intervene and control the discussion, but think that would actually end up being counterproductive. Even from a purely selfish perspective I won’t learn about the full breadth of limerence experiences if I create an echo chamber.
Bewitched,
“But that sounds like a whole load of echo chambers – whereas diversity is what makes LwL”
There can be an echo chamber of too much support with no accountability as well.
Hi Marcia, your posts and from others too ensure this isn’t an echo chamber. That is is the point Bewitched articulated and DrL commented on.
Imho,
“Hi Marcia, your posts and from others too ensure this isn’t an echo chamber. That is is the point Bewitched articulated and DrL commented on.”
Yes, I can read.
Honestly this all is why I’m not posting here much anymore, I feel like the things I do and say are too contrary to the purpose of this site. I’m definitely not trying to interact with newcomers or give anyone advice anymore, and I don’t even feel good about writing about my own life here, not particularly because I feel judged by anyone, but because I’m still trying to do things my own way and I’m pretty unabashedly continuing an emotional affair with my LO, while most everyone else here is legit trying to do better and get over their limerence.
I’m at a point where I feel like anything I write here isn’t really helping me, and might be hurting other people who are actually trying to get over their limerence. I’ve even tried to justify my posting sometimes by thinking “well, at least I’m giving Dr L some data about prolonged limerence”. But I really doubt I’m teaching him anything he hasn’t seen a million times already. So anyway, I guess I just want to say I’m sorry for not being better or for not even wanting to be better.
I mean, what I really want is to get over limerence without having to give up my relationship with LO… to be able to interact with her on a normal level without all the anxiety and stuff… and I know that’s probably not possible, that all the evidence and experience says it isn’t, but half of me still thinks that might be possible because my distress symptoms are definitely a lot less intense than they were a year ago, so maybe another year from now they might be even less… but that ignores the fact that even if I could get over my own distressing limerence symptoms, I’m still betraying my SO – I mean, would a non-limerent emotional affair be any better? Or could that even exist?
Actually that’s a question I’ve never thought of before – can emotional affairs exist without limerence? I mean, I can imagine some people (people wired different than me) having a physical affair without limerence, or without even really having feelings for their affair partner, just because they like sex and it feels good or it gives them an ego boost or whatever. But to carry on an emotional affair for years, where you want the person badly but never get to consummate it, where you feel so close to them but there are always so many barriers to maintaining closeness, when you depend on them emotionally but can’t even contact them half the time because of your rules… how could that ever exist without one or both people being in a limerent state? Wouldn’t non-limerent people quickly just realize how crazy and stupid it is and walk away?
“While most everyone else here is legit trying to do better and get over their limerence.”
LiS,
I would say I’m not trying too hard to get out of limerence either. It’s another reason I’m not posting as much these days. What good does it to post about an effort I’m not making. All I’d really like to be is not depressed over her because it always seems to happen..
My efforts to connect with someone else isn’t going in a way I may have hoped. Pethaps it’s because LO still outshines everyone it seems. At this point, LO is still a comfortable idea. A goal that is probably foolish and ridiculous, considering how little I see her anymore. Yet the desire is still there. Anytime I do see her, she is simply unlike any other Woman on the planet.
I wonder if I will ever be over her.
I don’t know what an echo chamber is, but I think there is a difference between „tough love“ or „unsentimental compassion“ and simply judging.
I personally think it would be a loss to the site if people like Lost in Space would stop posting because they feel uncomfortable. But I actually felt/feel good here, and think we should just let everyone articulate what he thinks, may it be indulgent or tough love.
I mean, there are different types of learning. For example , there are people in my profession who respond well to pressure, they thrive on strict routines and teachers. I never was like that, I‘m getting better when encouraged and praised.
That’s maybe why, though a bit of tough love at the right time works wonders also with me, I made good process with the very gentle prodding of Imho, Bewitched and ABCD.
Maybe because I have the need to be understood first, and then I can work from it myself.
The main thing is the willingness to end the limerence, of course!
But as far as I know, this here is anyway no course or class.
I would be so glad if everybody feels comfortable to have his/her say and I would miss all the different sides (from a tough view of the matter to a more nostalgic one, it’s all in the spectrum of limerence)if somebody felt his view isn’t allowed here (and I mean both „sides“)
@Lost in Space,
I did not read much of your LE-detailed posters, and initially got an impression that you’re a type of person who wants it all (probably wants to brag about it, too), which is just Impossible in life — you, or anyone else, can not change my belief/truth in this!
I just want to add one point here: I actually think you’re lucky to have your EA reciprocated by your LO, which seemed to have helped soothe your pains in the hard time of your family crisis — that’s a specific, positive side of your EA.
Whether an emotional affair is possible without LE or how long your current LE/EA could last, is up to you to live through and find out. I don’t think anyone here, including DrL, could answer those questions in advance.
Please let us know your success or failure, if you wish.
@coffeehouse,
I simply hate to see an “emotional affair” or an “unrequited love” to be immoralized or condemned (just because one or two SO is involved), as if any one of us could help our deep feelings (PA is excluded).
What could be more humanistic? If without those cultural scripts, how would we value those rare to come, hard to last loving emotions?
My LE/EA fades away on its own without an EA ever being reciprocated, despite I even made an effort to keep it — no resist, no persist!
@MJ
“I would say I’m not trying too hard to get out of limerence either. It’s another reason I’m not posting as much these days. What good does it to post about an effort I’m not making. All I’d really like to be is not depressed over her because it always seems to happen..”
What’s wrong with “not trying too hard to get out of limerence”? This site is called, “Live with LImerence” not “getting out of Limerence”. As Sammy states that a really thick limerence may never end in our lifetime.
You’re single, so in limerence with your LO is not an issue. However, the side effect of depression over her IS your “price” to pay. If I were you, I’d try to find any effective means to manage the depression better instead of unwillingly getting rid of limerence at this stage.
So I wish you living better with your limerence.
@LiS
“Honestly this all is why I’m not posting here much anymore, I feel like the things I do and say are too contrary to the purpose of this site”
I don’t think that you should worry about the purpose of the site because the main one is reading about other people’s experience in the arena of limerence and getting educated about it from what seems like one of the most knowledgeable community sources (hive minds) available.
More serious is the idea that “I’m at a point where I feel like anything I write here isn’t really helping me, and might be hurting other people who are actually trying to get over their limerence”
If its not helping you, then you should not feel obliged to do post. But I don’t think any of us has the power to negatively influence the trajectory of any other person’s LE simply by externalising our own thoughts and strategies. LEs are stubborn, as we all know. And most limerents are pretty resistant to changing things, it seems. We seem to need to internalise our own lessons from our own experiences, at our own pace, rather than be overly-influenced by others going a slightly different path, taking a harder or softer stance, etc. Different approaches resonate with different people.
That’s a long winded way of saying that I don’t think that you are negatively affecting anyone by writing through your own thoughts.
I mean, it not rocket science. Its all about self reflection. And only the limerent can do that work for their individual case. Seeing a range of responses from the community opens up wider possibilities about what might be the best approach ‘for me’.
We’d miss you if you left LiS! But we would also understand if it was doing you no good to be here.
I appreciate everyone’s point of view, btw, am feeling guilty for kicking off a frank exchange of views, (did I?), but, in my opinion, the range of views is what is important. I just wanted to balance things….
I think I’m just feeling a lot of negative emotions regarding my LE/EA. I feel a lot of guilt every day – believe me, I judge myself more harshly than anyone else might, even if it might not always seem that way from my self-justifying posts. Every morning I wake up next to my SO thinking how unfair it is to her and how hurtful it would be to her if she ever found out – she’s such a good and loyal person who just absolutely doesn’t deserve to be betrayed.
And at the same time I feel so much frustration and anxiety about LO – I’m always in a state of frustration about not getting to be as close to her as I want, and am always feeling so much anxiety about her coming to her senses and calling the whole thing off and not wanting to be around me anymore. Cuz I know she struggles with guilt a lot as well and there’s a big part of her that knows we should end it just because it’s wrong. But I fear losing her so badly because I’ve let myself get so bonded – at this point it feels like losing her would be like having an arm or a leg amputated or something. But then, I know that losing SO would feel like having both arms and both legs chopped off. So I’m just stuck in this place of not wanting to change in either direction because change feels too painful, but the place I’m at now is also not such a pleasant place to be – I mean, there are plenty of pleasant times every day but the underlying feelings of guilt and frustration and anxiety are not pleasant to live with.
I guess I’d just say that for any married limerents who are in an earlier stage of limerence and are thinking “disclosure will make everything better” or “if only LO reciprocated my feelings and we could have a pleasant little emotional affair, that would be so nice”… all I can say is that this really isn’t a good place to be. This LE is my 4th and it’s caused me far more distress than my first 3 combined (which all ended far earlier without progressing to full-on emotional affairs). So maybe that can be my contribution to this site, to post more about all the negative emotions I’m feeling as a warning to others that might help someone else out.
Hi LiS,
(Not sure if I reply in the right place)
like Bewitched said,I don’t think you could any harm by posting your experiences, no one would surely base his/her personal life decisions on your posts, also they are always conveying a sense of your struggle.
For me it sounds as if your situation is calling for an „accident“ to happen, something that either SOs overheard or reads, or something physical that will force your or her hand to stop everything. The question is, is that the outcome you want?
I believe anything is possible, even that you manage to balance on two ropes for the rest of your life , but the question is again, is that what you want?
I don’t mean that in a judgmental tone of voice.
It’s just sometimes good to really step back and look at the future possibilities and what you would like to see when you look back at the end of your life, to get a bit philosophical here.
“The question is, is that the outcome you want?”
Well I can’t speak for any other men my age here (I don’t how you ladies deal with mid life), but my mid life has been an absolute bitch to me even without the limerence.
But with that limerence comes an altered state of mind. And for us married limerents sometimes it takes hitting rock bottom like getting an ultimatium from SO. I came close to that before I woke up. And it isn’t a pleasant experience. And I am sure it is not for the spouse either. To have to threaten to walk away to get you to realize where your head is at.
An affair of any kind is hard to forgive. I try to see in my head my wife being limerent or just swimming in a emotional affair and how I would feel. What kind of emotions would I feel? If she woke up from it would I be able to forgive her? I try to think of her intimately confiding in another man. I’m a bit jealous when it comes to her. So I know I wouldn’t feel good about it. And yet I did it. Mila makes very good points.
I watch this video at least once a day and listen to the song more than one a day. It is a constant reminder to me that it might could have escalated to far worse. I don’t think she would have gotten involved with a married man being she divorced her ex because he cheated on her. But ….. *shrugs*
Sam Smith — I’m Not the Only One
Music Video
https://youtu.be/nCkpzqqog4k?si=VGwDmDWsI9fWhIBs
Lyrics
https://youtu.be/J_BId2d5zB4?si=fEWsAzSrboaMa1Nc
@LIS
Your write ups on the reality of an EA and the struggles and pain and frustration it causes you is really good for me to hear. I have envied the fact that you have a fully reciprocating LO. But I also know the times I have been closer to my LO are not ever easier so I can’t imagine actually navigating a mutual EA.
I really relate to what you said about frustration over the barriers with LO and guilt with SO. Lately my LO has been quite a bit warmer with me, I might even say flirty. I can’t lie, I really enjoy it and it can suck me in. I know she doesn’t have the same intensity of feelings towards me but at the same time we do seem to have some connection with each other that at least feels to me like some level of mutual attraction for each other. I get very frustrated at these times that the barriers exist. I also feel guilty with SO because there is always a present desire for LO even when I am fully engaged with SO. I basically cannot get LO off my mind.
I can manage my emotions much better now but I have resigned myself to the fact that all this will not go away anytime soon unless LO exits my life. I would choose her to exit my life right now if I could.
@Lost in Space I’m right there with you….I’ve known my LO for almost two decades and my feelings have built up slowly over time. Now I find they’re reciprocated. I have both a huge reluctance to walk away and constant guilt….So you’re not the only one by any means. Your posts are the ones I most watch for.
Ok then, I guess I’ll keep providing occasional field notes from the land of the limerent emotional affair… maybe it serves as a cautionary tale for other folks, maybe it does serve as a sort of release valve that helps keep me from making things even worse or suffering a full-on nervous breakdown… who knows, maybe some day I’ll actually talk myself into make some real changes to get out of this situation.
Adam wrote about his LO “I don’t think she would have gotten involved with a married man being she divorced her ex because he cheated on her. But ….. *shrugs*”
In my case, my LO divorced her SO a few years ago because he cheated on her, and it was absolutely devastating for her at the time, but now she’s back living with him and she’s also involved with me (and in fact a lot of our initial bonding took place when I supported her emotionally after her divorce). So, I guess life is complicated and people do a lot of stuff that doesn’t really make much sense.
And every so often she starts feeling really guilty because she puts herself in my wife’s shoes and remembers how horrible it felt it to be betrayed, or she gets really paranoid that her SO is cheating on her again, and then she responds to those feelings by cutting off contact with me, suddenly and without warning or explanation. And she won’t just tell me how she’s feeling or say that she needs to take a break, because she’s so avoidant and hates the thought of having conflict with me, so she just disappears, which is really hurtful and confusing for me… and then I start thinking I need to just end this thing for good because I can’t take it anymore, but then she reaches out and re-establishes contact and it feels so damn good to hear from her again that I immediately forget all the bad feelings and only want to be close to her again. It’s a psychological clusterfuck. (if you can’t tell by my tone and my grumpiness, we’re currently on day 3 of her just randomly giving me the silent treatment after everything was apparently completely good between us for the last several weeks and I can’t think of anything I did or said that would have driven her away).
It’s like we took all the stress and emotional turmoil of an emotional affair and combined it with all the issues when an anxiously attached person is in a relationship with a fearful-avoidant person. I really wish LO and I could go to relationship counseling together… has anyone ever heard of such a thing happening? I wonder if any therapist out there would be willing to work with us to help us either improve our relationship or amicably separate…
LiS,
It seems like you have a lot of unwanted stress over LO. I can imagine how heavily that weighs on your mental state. I’m sorry you have to deal with it. Your idea of joint counseling with LO seems like a good idea, but I feel it would only add to the deceit. Even if there is infact counseling for such a thing.
I think what you’re really doing is looking for affirmation to make it all normal or right in your head. When what you should do is dial it down a notch or two. So you don’t go insane trying to juggle two important people in your life, that you really don’t ever want to hurt.
Thanks MJ. I know you’re right that it’s necessary to turn the intensity down a couple of notches. I think that’s partly what she’s doing (consciously or subconsciously I’m not sure) when she goes through these times when she just stops talking to me for awhile – I think in part that’s her way of turning things down when it’s getting too intense (and we had been having a lot of contact and affectionate words over the past few weeks). I think I wouldn’t mind so much if she could just say something like “hey I think we need to take a little break, maybe let’s cool it for a week and then talk again next week?” – I’d deal with that a lot better than just suddenly not getting any response when I text her and not hearing from her at all, and having no idea what’s going on or what’s in her head or if it’s something I did wrong, and if this separation is gonna last for a day or a week or a month or forever. That confusion and uncertainty just makes my feelings more intense, so I’m thinking about her even more while we’re not talking (but more in a dysphoric anxious/ruminating sort of way) and then when she does contact me again I’m so relieved to have contact with her again that I jump right back in over-enthusiastically. That’s part of our pathology together, and why I dream about us going to relationship counseling together – but yeah, I don’t think that’s actually realistic or possible in real life, I don’t know that any licensed therapist would be willing to help emotional affair partners work on improving their relationship, and I don’t think she’d agree to do it even if it was available.
Dear LiS,
My own emotions are all over the place without any input from my LO.
I keep a brief note (not even a journal, just a short tally) of my daily mood with regard to him and when I look back at it, I can see how all over the place I am. Its not very correlated with him, either, a lot can be to do with me and how much brooding I’m doing. So it doesn’t matter if we are LC, there can be a dramatic daily shift in my mood. Maybe keep an eye on this? You are going through a lot and extrinsic (LO-related) factors are only part of it. Ultimately, ye do seem a bit mismatched in terms of emotional needs – why does she keep disappearing when she knows its so upsetting for you? I don’t think that this would ever be resolved were she to be a friend, a new SO, etc. It seems like a mismatch and I think when you look back at this episode in year to come, you will be very struck by that.
Sending all best wishes – have a lovely weekend with the family.
@LIS
Oh, I totally get it! My LO has tons of things taking up his time–duties in the church, demanding job, community positions, family, etc. Yet if he doesn’t respond to a text or e-mail, I’m likely to start running through the paranoid reasons in my head: “Oh no! I creeped him out somehow. I upset him. He doesn’t like me anymore. Why isn’t he answering???!!!” It doesn’t matter that he gave me a warm hug and big smile last time he saw me, or that he will next time he sees me. I have to talk myself down from this every time.
Under the name of “tough love”, my birth mother abused me physically, mentally, and emotionally during my childhood and youth. In 2010 she said to me, “i see your insecurity now. I think we were too harsh on you, because we were worried that others would think we were spoiling you (as a single child). “ but she did not and still would not apologize, She argued she’s entitled because other parents in my COO did or tried the same.
So worrying about her images in others” eyes, she “sacrificed” me as her narcissistic “lab rat”, growing up with cptsd — not the worst, since I had my loving, feisty Granny and ambivalent father to somewhat balance her negative influence.
We are all a grownup here with different cultural background, personalities, and psychological needs; no one sized shoe in easing LE pains or getting rid of LE could fit in all types of limerents. Al we could do is to show all possible upper or down consequences of LE, let each limerent’s executive brain makes its own decisions or choices. If it’s missing, our words could hardly help get it back FOR them.
@LE,
I love the list you post here, serving as a reminder how bad LE could go! We limerents need to remember such a list all the time before or in the middle of limerence.
Hi LE and Marcia:
Yes, I do agree. Chasing limerence is definitely a choice. We chase it for the good feelings, for the thrill, only to realise that the farther we go, the harder it will be to undo the damage, i.e. if the damage can be undone. So, the earlier the limerent realises it, the better it is. This is especially true for limerents with SOs. We need to stop seeking LO, and dial the LE back. Otherwise, as LE said – you live with your choices the rest of your life.
One cannot get of limerence unless one wants to get out – this is so true. A random email here, a text message now and then, will not work. So, if the LO is not a co-worker, one needs to follow strict NC – quit cold turkey. The hard work does need to be done.
ABCD,
“So, the earlier the limerent realises it, the better it is. This is especially true for limerents with SOs”
To me, it’s only true if one or both have an SO. If both the limerent and the LO are single, why not go for it? I’d advise the limerent ask the LO out pretty quickly once they know they have feelings so the LE doesn’t drag on. And also accept that anything less than a “yes” is a “no.” And going NC or as LC as possible, given the individual circumstances, if the answer is “no” or vague or a “yes” but the person keeps rescheduling, for example.
“So, if the LO is not a co-worker,”
Then the limerent has to go as LC as possible. No looking for the LO at break, trying to catch them in the parking lot, etct.
Hi Marcia:
Yes, of course, if both parties are single, one should definitely go for it and make an attempt, as you said – the earlier the better, so that they may get something going in the early phase of LE. And yes, its important to “accept” the result.
Regarding the point on NC/LC, yes, one has to stop seeking LO, and trying to set up interactions, or also hoping for them to take place. We do need to be resolute as we take these steps.
If the limerent has a SO, and has no intention of leaving the SO, what’s the purpose of pursuing the LO , whether LO is single or not? The correct decision is to go No Contact, or LC, if N/C possible . Going NC immediately avoids pain and suffering the thousands deaths…
Hi everyone,
I just wanted to share an update on my situation, and this post seems the perfect way to do so as my LO and I had definitely tripped over into an EA, although I wasn’t sure until I read it.
I have turned a corner. I had the realisation that I was really doing this to myself and could step back at any time. The crux came when he didn’t reply to a message and I just started to think how I could change things, and make myself feel a whole lot better. I didn’t manage to say everything I wanted to, and some of it didn’t come out as planned (tongue-tie!), but I told him, face to face, that I couldn’t do it any longer and needed to step away as I was in too deep. He wasn’t as bothered by it as I wanted him to be, things we so that says everything, along with him not even having the courtesy to reply to a message! But I did turn back to say something else as I was walking away and he was looking after me, I think (maybe my limerence is clouding this!) wistfully, almost lovingly, and that was good enough for me. He did say he’d been getting quite depressed and anxious about the whole situation, not just about me but his relationship with his SO, and I think he is probably as emotionally unstable as I am, so why would I want that in my life when my SO is so grounded!
I feel free. I have a way to go but I’m confident I can break entirely from him, to go back now would be humiliating, I can’t continue to throw myself at someone who doesn’t truly want me, or at least doesn’t know what he wants. I still find myself daydreaming about him but as soon as I realise it, I put SO’s face in place of him, that is really helping.
We are managing to remain civil, even friendly at work which is a huge bonus as any animosity would make it so much more difficult. I think he is a little sad but again, I could be reading too much into it. It doesn’t matter anyway. I wish him well.
Thank you to everyone who helped me work this out. I had to take a break from the site as I felt I was actually becoming a little obsessed with watching for replies! I have started running just to release some of the anxiety, and I have to keep busy so I don’t start ruminating but I find myself smiling a lot because I have taken the first step to recovery. I urge anyone in this horrible situation to do the same. You will not look back! Well, you will but with every day it will get easier not to!
“Well, you will but with every day it will get easier not to!”
Yes it will. In a 100% work related conversation with the gal in accounting earlier this week and her name came up as we were trying to find the history of a purchase and sale. And it did not hit as it would have earlier. It was a conversation I was able to have without any rumination or distress.
And congratulations on your progress Problem Child. I am sure that was difficult for you to do and I cannot imagine it. She made the choice for me so I had no say in it. But that was very good progress. Keep up your resolve and yes you feel better and better each day about not obsessing about someone. And that makes things stronger with your SO whether they knew about the incident or not.
Wishing you well in your journey.
Well done, Problem Child!
If you start ruminating about the look on his face when you turned around or if he‘s sad or not, just tell your self this truth: if he really would be the one you should jeopardize or end your relationship for because you are destined to be together, he would take some action besides looks and sighs, he would not just stand around and make puppy eyes. Don’t let yourself be lured back by some wistful appearance and wishful thinking on your side.
It doesn’t matter now, he can be sad, you can be sad, but that’s it, I think you made the right decision!
Hi Adam and Mila,
Thank you, it’s still hard, don’t get me wrong, and the thoughts pull me back constantly, as he is still very much on my mind, but I have seen sides of him that I don’t really like and that has been a blessing. I hope we can be friends one day but at the moment that is too dangerous.
Mila, I know what you’re getting at but the thing is, I still have that need for him to want me! If only so I can say, actually, no thanks! Very sadomasochistic. Also, I don’t believe it’s as straightforward as him fighting to be with me if he really wanted to. To be fair, he was more often than not trying to do the right thing. I have children, he doesn’t, and he said that complicated things, and he wasn’t sure if he wanted to take on all that that entailed. I like to think he was thinking of my children when I was unable to. But I do know that I also have to paint him in a bad light where possible.
Well done Adam! I’ve already noticed that I don’t get butterflies when I know I’m going to see him, which is incredible. I definitely think that learning a few things about him that I wasn’t keen on helped. I can’t have his unreliability and chaos in my life. SO might be a bit boring but there’s a lot to be said for the predictable when it comes to family life, and it’s not up to him to excite my life, I can do that myself (without falling for another man!)
Good luck to you both!
Hi Problem Child, and all.
Great to hear your turn of developments. Keep going, and you will feel better and better. You got a lot more closure than I did. In my case, LO just ghosted herself, and I did the same. Right now, a big development that I observe within myself is that I no longer look at LO for validation. I do not even replay old LO actions and interactions to feel good. So, this to me, is a huge step.
I still get sad every now and then, especially wondering why she pulled back, I am hoping that this too will improve with time. I am really intrigued what will happen when we meet face to face next, it is bound to happen sooner or later. Hope that I can manage it well.
Hi Problem Child, just to say what a good outcome after all the turmoil you were going through. Having the clarity and clear message said in-person (words prepared will never come out perfect.) I guess this has removed many if not all of the uncertainties of your LE. Must be like a cloud has lifted, although I’m sure lots of sadness right now. And now onwards. Enjoy the running and other excitements you are going to inject into your life. Very inspirational. Less ‘Problem Child’ more ‘Empowered woman’ !?
Oh I love this IMHO! That’s exactly how I feel. It’s as if something just started to turn in my brain, the cogs of sense! I wouldn’t say it’s removed all of the uncertainties, SO and I have a lot of work to do, but I’m making a start, I’ve arranged a date night so we’ll see where that goes. I still think about LO and what could have beens but I seem able to let it pass or replace it with something else. I think making a firm decision kind of gives you the momentum to undertake more positive actions – the knock on effect.
I completely get what you mean ABCD, I get sad too, I wonder why he didn’t want me enough, what’s wrong with me? But it’s not necessarily us, it’s the situation, that’s what I tell myself, and it’s a good thing whatever the reason, I do not need chaos in my life, regardless of what happens with SO, and neither do my children. Hold on to whatever you have now that really matters.
Good luck to you both!
“I’ve arranged a date night so we’ll see where that goes.”
My wife and I use to do date night once a week for a few years before the 2020 quarantine hit us all. It was always the highlight of my week to go out and forget all about everything and enjoy the time alone. A really good way to bond together. We need to start that back up again. I think it will help us both. Me to show I am prioritizing her. And an excuse for me to dress to impress her. Which in turn will be a great excuse to justify buying a new waistcoat haha 🙂
Oh do it ABCD! Buy the waistcoat, make her the priority, make new highlights!
“It’s as if something just started to turn in my brain, the cogs of sense!”
This was a first step for me.
“It doesn’t matter anyway.” -> And this, is what you are aiming for. The opposite of love [and limerence] is not hate, but indifference.
Because so much of limerence is about getting validation for the other, accepting that indifference is the goal is a hard pill to swallow. But because this is not a person who should matter to you in your life, that is the goal.
However, I am glad that you are recognizing that you are in recovery, not “cured” yet – there may be set backs; do not be too hard on yourself if/when that happens. Show yourself some compassion, screw up your determination, and keep trying.
Hey Lucky,
Thanks for the encouragement. There are still questions I would like answers to, things he said that I don’t understand, but it’s all part of the self-validation need and none of it does matter, you’re right, I have to remind myself of that.
SO and mine’s date night was good, we had fun and chatted a lot, but I had this niggling sense that there is something missing. Maybe that will change over time, I have to give it a good try. I suppose that’s a grown-up relationship and accepting that relationships do take hard work is all part of it. I still want to feel special for someone and feel in love/loved too. Maybe that’s a conversation we need to have but at the moment I’m scared to go there.