In a recent conversation I was asked:
How is limerence different from an emotional affair?
The person asking was a non-limerent.
My first reaction was befuddlement. I mean, obviously limerence isn’t an emotional affair, it’s an emotional state that some people go through. Unless you cross the line from internal thoughts to external deeds, how could an affair be happening? But then I started to wonder a bit more about where the line would be for a non-limerent. If you have never had the experience of utterly losing your mind over someone else, then maybe it would feel like a betrayal to discover that your partner had done exactly that, even though they didn’t mean to. That got me thinking again about how variable the reactions can be to discovering that your SO has an LO. It seems obvious now I’m typing it out, but for a limerent that discovery falls within their “sphere of understanding” – so while it’s definitely unpleasant, it’s not a total shock. For a non-limerent it comes as a one-two combination to the gut.
Not only does the non-limerent have to process the idea that some people get so madly infatuated that their whole lives are overwhelmed, but also that their partner currently feels like that about someone else. Given that extra context, the question makes a lot more sense.
So with the goal of being helpful, I started trying to lay out some objective criteria for what would constitute an emotional affair. Is there a line that can be agreed on by reasonable people that can help guide the two tribes to shared understanding? In escalating order, here are some case studies…
1) All in the mind
This is where I commonly draw the line in terms of culpability. If the limerent is managing the limerence within their head, and not disclosing or externalising the feelings directly or indirectly, I would say the claim of an emotional affair is unreasonable. However, there is a grey area even here. Intent does matter. If the limerent is wilfully and consistently indulging in reverie to the extent that they are neglecting their responsibilities, daydreaming about an alternate life with another partner, and generally seeking escape from their currently life in their imaginary limerence-tinted world, then that’s not great. I still wouldn’t call it an emotional affair, but it’s certainly not a purposeful way to live. If your thoughts and deeds mismatch badly enough, then eventually your behaviour will probably start to reflect your thoughts, or you’ll develop some sort of psychosis. I’ve speculated before about the cognitive dissonance of being in a long-term relationship but developing limerence for someone else – you either confront the truth that you are not being emotionally consistent with your principles, or you risk devaluing your partner to try and resolve the dissonance.
2) Online only
The next stage up from thoughts alone would be online chat. LO is not someone you know IRL, so any connection is in one sense virtual. I’m probably showing my age a bit with this (oh how I bore the kids with my “I remember life before the internet was invented” stories), because online is just as real as real nowadays, but there does seem to be a categorical difference between an LO you can interact with and physically touch, and one who is at the other end of a bunch of fibreoptic cables. Of course, again, conduct is important. If you’re What’s Apping about day to day life and oversharing somewhat, that’s probably OK, but if you’re discussing your spouse’s shortcomings, declaring your ardour for LO (“even though we’ve never met!”), or sending dick-pics, then yeah, that’s not OK. This category gets pretty dark at the extremes. I once had an email from a chap whose wife had emptied their bank account after becoming limerent for a Nigerian scammer. The distinction between real and virtual in that case is pretty immaterial. But it does illustrate that you can even become limerent for an illusion. Can you have an emotional affair with a con artist?
3) An acquaintance without disclosure
This case raises the question of how deeply the LO must be involved for an emotional affair to have happened. If the limerent knows the LO a bit but only sees them in a defined context – say a work colleague or gym buddy or fellow commuter – does this cross the line? If the limerent is actively seeking out that person and considers their short snatches of shared time as the highlight of their day, then that does suggest an excessive connection. Fans of Brief Encounter will know that commuter friendships can escalate, but if the limerence is one-sided, can an emotional affair occur? Again, if the limerent keeps the feelings to themselves, and the LO is oblivious, then I would say that an “affair” like this should only trouble the limerent’s conscience.
4) Friend without disclosure
In the same vein, but with more intimacy, one-sided limerence for a friend blurs the line a little further. I’ve opined at length on the improbability of being an authentic friend to an LO. Friendship requires honesty and intimacy, and the limerent wants more emotional and sexual intimacy than they are letting on. It may be for noble reasons that they hold their tongue, knowing that they have nothing to offer the LO. It may be that they are angry with themselves for not being able to control their feelings, and frustrated at their inability to be a good friend. But ultimately, there is a tragic hopelessness in the attempt to stay friends with someone you crave romantically. You set yourself up as a bit part player in someone else’s story, subordinating your true desires to “not ruining the friendship”, but it’s a friendship that keeps you addicted and stuck. If life were a romantic comedy, you would be the pining sidekick who gets in the way.
Another variant on this theme is a friendship where there is reciprocation and mutual feeling, but neither party discloses it. This certainly has the scope to veer into emotional affair territory, if both “friends” are enabling intimate conversations and emotional bonding, with a thin veneer of plausible deniability. But equally, two people wrestling with unwelcome feelings could just as readily be victims of circumstance as affair partners.
5) Friend with disclosure
This for me is the unequivocal tipping point. In all other cases, there is potential for the limerent to come to their senses, get themselves straight, and re-commit to their primary relationship without any public fallout. Certainly there will be private fallout, and probably damage to the trust of SO that will require genuine remorse to recover. But once disclosure has occurred, then the truth is out, and any pretense of mere friendship is ended. The only time that this would not constitute an emotional affair would be if it represented the end of all contact. If, in contrast, the disclosure does not lead to the end of the friendship, then you and LO have shared a revelation that your SO is excluded from. At that point, it’s no longer credible to pretend that this is anything other than a non-physical romantic affair.
So what does all this add up to? Is there a line that can be objectively drawn? Does the line fall in a different place for limerents and non-limerents? Why are we even trying to draw a line at all? Surely even the act of pulling out a metaphorical pencil proves that there is something illicit about our behaviour. Would an innocent person ever worry about careful definition of boundaries?
I think the most value that can come from this exercise is an increase in self-awareness. Unless you are well practiced at self-analysis, the chances are that limerence will catch you by surprise, and you will find that what started as an enjoyable friendship deepened while you were blithely unaware of the impact your behaviour was having. Many limerents have a triggering moment of realisation that makes them wonder “yikes, have I already gone too far?”.
The way to answer that question is to be honest with yourself about your motives. Are you being deceitful to others about what is going on? Are you trying to ignore the voice of your conscience so you can stay in denial a little longer? Are you reorganising your day to get more time with LO? Any actions that lead to lying to yourself or others are indicators that you know at some deeper level that your behaviour is not OK. That’s the path into an emotional affair, and even if LO is not reciprocating, you are seeking it.
So, as for most things, the answer here is purposeful living. Be honest with yourself. Ask proper questions about your long term relationship. Don’t delegate important decisions about your life to other people and then get moody if they don’t do the right thing. If you know yourself properly, you’ll know where your line is, and there will be much less danger of straying near it.
I am new to this website so I may not be using the terminology correctly, i.e. lots of abbreviations that I becoming familiar with. I am just learning what LE entails and the effects on the LO. I am non-limerent and my limerent partner just broke off the relationship after a year. It left me sad and disappointed in him. So whether is was an emotional affair or not is inconsequential. The important thing is to be honest and to disclose in the early stage of the relationship so that the LO is aware of the “disfunction” especially if both parties are not involved with anyone else. For me honesty is the best policy. This way L0 can make a conscious decision of whether they want to pursue the relationship or not with the limerent individual, given the ramifications. I wish I had had this option! My question is: So is the limerent individual being selfish for emotional gratification at the expense of the reciprocated LO prolonging a relationship that will eventually lead to rupture? This is what I am struggling with.
I will like to discuss this with him so that I can continue to see him as person of integrity rather than someone pursuing self gratification. Any advice will be appreciated.
Hi Frances,
Stimulated by your comment, I’ve put a glossary of terms in the sidebar now. Been meaning to do that for a while.
I think you mean SO (significant other) rather than LO (limerent object) in some of your comment. I’m taking your question to mean is the limerent being selfish by prolonging a relationship with an SO that they are not limerent for. Is that right? If so, then the answer is a bit complicated. Many limerents form lasting healthy relationships with people that they were not limerent for. It doesn’t devalue the relationship in any way. However, if those limerents are not self-aware and run off with the next person that comes along and triggers limerence in them (i.e. a limerent object, LO, arrives on the scene), then yes, that is definitely selfish pursuit of emotional gratification at the expense of their SO.
“It doesn’t devalue the relationship in any way. ”
Isn’t that for the SO to determine? If the SO feels devalued, doesn’t that count?
I mean that the value of a lasting relationship is not diminished by the fact that the limerent didn’t go through limerence mania at the outset (especially if they are the type of person that becomes limerent for Unhealthy People).
I guess if a spouse who was themselves a limerent found out that their partner had not been limerent for them at the outset, they may feel that the relationship was retrospectively devalued, but that seems a bit… misguided.
I find myself so torn about the friends part. I am not in a relationship, neither is the man I am limerent for (as far as I know…he definitely wasn’t at the time when he found out). We aren’t in the same country and can’t be for any time in the foreseeable future. He knows how I feel – it came out in an uncomfortable way through a third party. We both backed away from the friendship at that time, and yet slowly our friendship is healing…with some awkward bumps. The friendship means a lot to me. We were friends without me having any feelings for him for longer than I have been limerent for him. I don’t want to believe that I can’t honestly be his friend. I even tell myself to stop reading this blog because it feels too cut and dry about the subject of limerence and friendship, and yet it feels at the same time like an addiction to see if there is some insight each week that might help me…I am in pain, but the pain feels like it is much deeper than anything to do with him. I can acknowledge some characteristics that he shares with my father, who is fairly unable to love. But it seems wrong for that happenstance to ruin a valuable friendship. I want to peel away the part in me that wishes he felt the same way that I feel, and just understand that I matter to him and he matters to me, as friends, and that is enough. Nothing about third wheels or pining sidekicks – we can go our separate ways as far as romance is concerned. Knowing me I’ll be limerent for someone else in time, but this is a rare friend.
If you would feel hurt if your SO was doing it – it’s over the line. If you know your SO is going to be unhappy at what is going on – it’s over the line. If you believe that limerence sets you apart and makes your feelings just a little more significant by their very nature, and your SO is someqhat pitiable by virtue of lacking your depth of feeling, your capacity and need for passion – you’ve crossed the line.
When your SO has folded, spindled, mutilated and almost sublimated his/her own needs or personality in order to help you over whatever has drawn you away from the life you SAID you want – you’ve crossed the line. Particularly if you’re fantasizing about building that life with LO and SO is looking more and more like something the cat coughed onto the carpet. Maybe for real as the stress of folding, spindling and mutilating oneself is reflected bodily.
My situation was number three (acquaintance without disclosure). Although there were times when I thought often about disclosing, mostly to be able to be rejected and start to “get over it”, I never would have. Given the way that I know LO it would have been totally inappropriate. So, knowing that, and knowing that he will be a peripheral part of my life until my youngest child is done at his school (only another 5.5 years!) or unless LO changes jobs (not at all likely), after about a year of limerence I got myself into therapy. That was the point at which I knew things were out of control and not right. There has never been any inappropriate behaviour between us but the intrusive thoughts, highs/lows, etc. showed me clearly that something was off, that it had mutated from more than just a crush.
After a nine month period of NC last year, and having some of my feelings for LO start to resurface even after his return, I decided to confess to DH this winter. It was the best thing I could have done. I was prepared for him to forbid me from going to the school unless absolutely necessary, and I told him I would do whatever I could to ensure our youngest never gets LO as a teacher. Shockingly, thankfully, he was extremely understanding. Perhaps because I was able to explain the context of the limerence and why it occurred (therapy helped me dig into this: it was largely a response to quite a bit of grief I’d been dealing with), he listened and has been very supportive. It has helped things to improve somewhat. I think I’m as “over it” as I will be while LO is still around so I’m accepting that and not fighting it.
DH said it would have been a big problem had I ever said anything to LO or done anything. But for him, it all being in my head made it…not okay, but not crossing the line into an EA.
To me an EA still has to involve two people in some way. My LE doesn’t qualify.
I’d agree with your assessment, Pudding. You may have known that your feelings went beyond a simple crush, the fact that you never disclosed to LO, but instead confided in your husband, shows that your primary goal was solving the problem not prolonging exposure to LO.
That’s probably the critical deciding factor in whether something is an emotional affair.
This link has one of the most comprehensive list of emotional affair criteria: https://www.yourtango.com/experts/yourtango-experts/emotional-infidelity-18-signs-youre-crossing-line-expert
I was guilty of 2-7, 9-14, 16-18. Because acquaintance was entirely virtual, not all of them are precise fits but are more accurate than not and some were stronger than others. I was aware of many of them but #3 & #11 caught me by surprise.
That was an interesting read, thanks – and basically a long list of examples about how people can become more self aware of their real motives 🙂
Hi LLL,
Just a small word of caution. Being friends may not ever be a good idea, as the limerence is like an infection that can go dormant with NC, but is still in your system, ready to colonize your thoughts once your immune system is compromised by exposure to LO.
I speak from experience.
Hope you can find peace of mind.
Thanks for providing the glossary. It’s helpful. What exactly is limerence mania? Should a SO be compassionate towards their limerent partner or just be pissed off at him for ending a solid relationship unexpectedly? I am torn between the two. I really had a lot of respect for him, but now I am doubting.
I think it’s very possible to be compassionate toward a limerent partner who discloses to you honestly and tries to deal with it. But not if they end your relationship over it. Or you can decide to be compassionate with this former partner–and they should be former now–but don’t consider having a romantic relationship with them again. Unless you like having your chain yanked, in which case maybe you too are a bit limerent.
Thanks Landry. I totally see you point. Although the compassion is there, I won’t ever consider having a romantic relationship with him again. That will be way too much for me to handle. Once trust has been broken, that’s it for me. I am good with being single!!
I am experiencing limerence with a former colleague. We used to sit next to each other for 9months, acutely aware of our mutual attraction (although never disclosed btn both of us, other colleagues used to joke about us being very close). Then he left the company and I was relieved because i was very worried that it will lead to an affair.
I foughtto not contact him thereafter but thought about him constantly.
out of the blue after 2.5years he contacted me again for a coffee and weve been meeting every week for long chats and sometimes whatsapp discussions. Still we have not disclosed our feelings so there is an uncertainty that remains.. he is getting married this year, I am already married with kids. I am stuck and each time I decide to stop contacting him, he will contact me/ and vice versa. When he doesnt contact me, i suffer a lot and become depressed. I constantly think about that man and see no end in this … is the only way out to disclose my feelings? Maybe it was all in my head and thats it. However it might lead to a full blown affair if he discloses that he has feelings too..
I’m sorry to say that disclosure to LO is far from a guarantee of “a way out.” I am familiar with the roller coaster, incessant thoughts, and suffering and depression you speak of. I also remember being willing to do ANYTHING to have these feelings go away. Getting some appropriate counseling, if possible, would be my suggestion. I now know that I needed outside help, but at the time I had no idea what I was dealing with.
I would be interested to know what happened after you disclosed to your LO?
Sara, sorry I missed your question last week.
We worked at the same company for 5 years, and had become good “at-work” friends. We both knew the other cared, but each being married-with-kids and working at the same place felt like they were safe social barriers that would keep things safe. Fast forward to her giving notice at work, and my emotions spun totally out of control unlike anything I’d felt in 20+ years. Constant thoughts of my new LO took over my life (Part 1). How could she leave? If we were to remain friends, then more work would need to be done to keep the relationship going. How would that work?
She kept in touch with me, which got me out of my despair. I went out of town shortly after, and she had a solo weekend at home, and we had text conversations where she admitted some things to me. I reciprocated my feelings a few days later, and my feelings escalated to euphoria and we delved into an EA. What to do now? I vividly remember thinking to myself that this is not going to end well.
Fast forward to a few months later, still the same feelings for each other, but LO shuts down the frequency of contact trying to keep it more “friendly”. Now starts Part 2 of the constant thoughts, depression, high/low thoughts that lasts a year. Then No Contact for 3 months. Now, we have been back in contact for 3 months as she came back to the office part time. I do still miss the closeness to LO, but not nearly as much as I did before going No Contact. My emotions have improved, but I’m not “cured”.
All of that is to say that disclosure to LO will simply take you on a different emotional ride than non-disclosure. Looking back, I absolutely felt compelled to disclose, whether LO did it first or not. In my specific case, I really don’t see how I couldn’t ultimately disclose given my emotional state at the time.
Thinker, I can see some parallels with your story and mine. You say that your emotions have improved. Why do you think this is (no contact, disclosure removing some of the uncertainty, time, all of these)? I feel that my emotions are now a lot more under control than they were previously but I’m wondering if I’m just becoming more durable and getting used to the feelings that come with limerence.
Sara,
I’ll give you the same answer people gave me when I told them about the LE, “Get away from him (her) and stay away from him (her). Stay involved with this man (woman) and this will not end well for you.”
Have you read DrL’s blogs on disclosure?
– “When to disclose”
– “When not to disclose”
– “Should you disclose to your significant other?”
At this point, it doesn’t sound like you’ve done anything to really regret. Disclosure has the potential to really mess up lives, and not just your life.
I disclosed but my LO had no direct ability to affect my life, my LO and I were already well into an emotional affair, and my goal was to end the LE. It probably wasn’t the best idea but I had enough going in my favor that it eventually worked.
The flip response is you have to decide who and what’s really important to you, what it may cost you, how much risk you’re willing to assume to achieve it.
I can tell you from experience that trying to walk the line you’re approaching is likely to become next to impossible. The short answer is to distance yourself from him.
Now, if you want to put the ball in his court, the next time you have one of your meetings ask him, “What do you want from me?” See what he says. It’s a very revealing question. When he asks why you’re asking, tell him you want to know why he came out of the woodwork 2.5 years later while he’s engaged. He must want something.
Then, pay close attention to what he says. You’ll get a response but it might not be an answer. If the question remains when he’s done talking, you got a response. Answers close questions. “I don’t know” is a perfectly valid response but it’s never an answer.
Whatever he says shouldn’t change your mind about distancing yourself but you may have a better idea as to why that is.
Thanks for listening to me and taking time to respond.. its actuallythe first time I talk about it sonce it started in sept 15 so I guess I am finally ready to end it!!
The reason he contacted me is that a few months before, I changed job and moved somewhere close to his job (i had no idea where he was working!).. he heard from a former colleague that i moved there and then asked for my number. After we met back in july, i decided to involve our mutual friend in our meetings… eventually he started again to ask me directly to meet alone without asking our friend as well via in our common whatsapp group… at this point, beginningof december, i knew very well that saying yesto meeting one to one would be the start of something deeper but still said yes … and we started to meet more frequently.
Last week he mentionned taht he was home alone for one week and i thought i will be able to see his real intentions but he asked nothing! So im totally lost! What does he want from me? After resisting his invitations, i came recently to the conclusion that we should take it to the next step and now he seems to have second thoughts… this week he told me he couldnt meet he was busy at work (we have a pattern where each week the other person asks to meet every tuesday!) and itwas my turn to ask… now its probably best to confront him about his intentions?? Sorry for the messy message!!
“After resisting his invitations, i came recently to the conclusion that we should take it to the next step”
Don’t be coy. You want to cheat on your husband.
Dig into why you feel entitled to do that to your marriage and family with a therapist. You haven’t blown up your marriage yet, so consider disclosing to your husband that you have a big embarrassing crush on a former co-worker. The bright light of disclosure can often make these hidden feeling shrivel up and blow away.
Or decide to separate and divorce your husband. Be prepared to have 50% custody of your children and be single. Then you can date & mate anyone you like without lying any further to anyone.
Don’t plan on LO doing anything at all.
With my husband we went through a tough ride recently and its true that i welcomed the Lo when he contacted me for that reason.. it helped me to cope withmy issues athome.
Divorce is out of the question because we have young kids and to be honest i couldnt cope with life alone. But my love for my husband has diminished… i think its because i realised i have a lot more in common with LO than i have with my husband: similar jobs, similar projects, similar mentality, similar hobbies, similar upbringing… in any case even if i was single i wouldnt start anything with the LO because it is impossible to be together : different religion, different culture,…)my family will never tolerate this union and i am pretty sure his familywouldnt neither.
I have decidedto go into NC or be very brief when he asks me for lunch and i will obviously say no.
Hopefully it will die out like this.
“Divorce is out of the question because we have young kids and to be honest i couldnt cope with life alone. But my love for my husband has diminished…”
Are you really saying you are staying with him because you can’t be live alone and be a single parent?
“in any case even if i was single i wouldnt start anything with the LO because it is impossible to be together : different religion, different culture,…)”
But you are entertaining and viewing an affair as an inevitability.
Seriously, go find a therapist and unpack your baggage with someone you do NOT find sexually appealing.
Usual sympathetic response here I see…..
Sara, it seems like you’ve come to the conclusion that this potential union isn’t a good idea and that’s a positive start. NC is the best option for you right now, combined with a focus on your husband and probably an honest conversation about what is working in your marriage and what is not.
Since going NC with my former workplace LO and spending some quality time with my SO I feel like I’m coming out of the fog I was in and back home where I belong. I’m glad I didn’t let the relationship with LO get physical, albeit we crossed emotional boundaries. There’s certainly hope for from this position. Good luck.
If you really want out, get out.
The next time he asks be honest with him. Tell him, “I don’t like where I think this this is going and it’s best we not stay in contact.” It’s disclosure lite. Don’t debate it with him and don’t explain yourself. Wish him well and say goodbye. Or, you can just ghost him. It’s crude and you have mutual contacts that he may try to turn on you but there are consequences to limerence.
Once you’ve done that, you can start looking at the other aspects of limerence.
He may be busy at work, he may not be. After I disclosed to my last LO, she initially wanted to advance the acquaintance vice end it. My anxiety level went through the roof. You don’t know how he’ll respond to confrontation and if you were ready to take it to the next level, he just might agree with you and you turn what may have started as an unintended consequence into a conscious act of betrayal.
And, the thing is, you kicked a snowball off the hill that you didn’t have to.
Thank you i will try the disclosure lite technique. One question though would you say it is okay to do it via text message or better face to face?
If you can do it via text, do it. LO #4 said her goodbye via email. It was a very nice goodbye. One of the best I’ve ever gotten from a woman.
You don’t need to turn this into the final scene of “Casablanca.” Yeah, doing it in person has more style but it will likely make it harder to get over and there’s always the risk he could get you to reconsider saying goodbye and you’re someplace you don’t want to be. See him in person and you’ll be second guessing yourself for a long time.
Then you need to be prepared to block his number, delete him as a friend on FB, Instagram, etc. If you don’t want him appearing in your search string on FB, you’ll have to block him. I blocked LO #2 for that reason and LO #4 blocked me when I asked if it was ok if we not be FB friends, anymore. Then, again, she might have just been being bitchy. If you two have favorite hangouts, you may want to avoid those or change your schedule for awhile.
The only thing better than mitigating risk is avoiding it in the first place.
Hello Drlimerence
I would like to obtain youropinion on my story..
Thank you in advance
I am experiencing limerence with a former colleague. We used to sit next to each other for 9months, acutely aware of our mutual attraction (although never disclosed btn both of us, other colleagues used to joke about us being very close). Then he left the company and I was relieved because i was very worried that it will lead to an affair.
I foughtto not contact him thereafter but thought about him constantly.
out of the blue after 2.5years he contacted me again for a coffee and weve been meeting every week for long chats and sometimes whatsapp discussions. Still we have not disclosed our feelings so there is an uncertainty that remains.. he is getting married this year, I am already married with kids. I am stuck and each time I decide to stop contacting him, he will contact me/ and vice versa. When he doesnt contact me, i suffer a lot and become depressed. I constantly think about that man and see no end in this … is the only way out to disclose my feelings? Maybe it was all in my head and thats it. However it might lead to a full blown affair if he discloses that he has feelings too..
The reason he contacted me is that a few months before, I changed job and moved somewhere close to his job (i had no idea where he was working!).. he heard from a former colleague that i moved there and then asked for my number. After we met back in july, i decided to involve our mutual friend in our meetings… eventually he started again to ask me directly to meet alone without asking our friend as well via in our common whatsapp group… at this point, beginningof december, i knew very well that saying yesto meeting one to one would be the start of something deeper but still said yes … and we started to meet more frequently.
Last week he mentionned taht he was home alone for one week and i thought i will be able to see his real intentions but he asked nothing! So im totally lost! What does he want from me? After resisting his invitations, i came recently to the conclusion that we should take it to the next step and now he seems to have second thoughts… this week he told me he couldnt meet he was busy at work (we have a pattern where each week the other person asks to meet every tuesday!) and itwas my turn to ask… now its probably best to confront him about his intentions?? Sorry for the messy message!!
Hi Sara,
There are two things that strike me about your situation: the first is that it is hard to make good decisions in the presence of LO, so it is wise to go no contact for a while if you can. The second is that you seem to be looking to others to make decisions about your own life and fate, which is possibly why you are in so much emotional turmoil.
My guiding principle here is “purposeful living”, meaning making the decision to actively redirect your life towards the things that you care about and value. Not divorcing because your parents, culture or children would disagree, is not a good basis for staying in an unhappy marriage. Hoping that with some hints and anxious waiting, your LO may initiate an affair is also not a purposeful choice. However, it may be that there is actually a part of you that is using these excuses to not have to confront the really difficult underlying issue: you don’t know what you want.
I don’t mean this as a criticism. Many, many people are in the same boat. Really, the only way out of it is to do the deep work of trying to understand yourself better, trying to understand what really matters to you most, and being honest with yourself about the kind of person that you want to be.
Letting LO make decisions for you is not going to solve the root problems – even more so when you just end up cross that he didn’t make the one you expected. I would recommend you try to minimise contact, but most importantly, that you start to also take control over your own fate. Small decisions at first are good – maybe to spend more focussed time with your children and less time hanging on a text from LO. But without that step of understanding where it is you want to be, it’s impossible to determine which is the right direction to take…
Thank you all for your inputs.. so ive tried NC which didnt last long on this occasion (2 weeks yay) . he asked to go for lunch once which i refused and two days later a second time .. at that point i accepted.. was upset with myself that i cant resist!
Friendly talk as usual but i noticed an interesting thing this time that is that he talks about his fiance a lot … he mentioned he wants to get her a nice present for her birthday.. other times he mentionned her to complain about her .. anyway i just realise it now for some reasons! i willtry next round a 3 weeks NC ! It just makes me wonder if he needs me for his self esteem because he feels my crush and is just very narcissic .. this idea will definitely help me with NC this time as it got me angry! Forgot to mention he touched briefly my hand to lookat my rings ! So he obviously want to keepthegame/uncertainty going :((
Happy Pi day all! May Pythagoras and Euler wish your limerences to get better!
I think if I could take only one nugget of wisdom from this site, it would be along the lines of “you can’t be friends with someone you have romantic feelings for”, as this article says. Even more true for limerents. In the movies, such entanglements are cute; in real life, such entanglements can become painful and very destructive.
Sammy,
…and I think the sad thing (from my experience) is that when I look back such friendships were inauthentic. I wasn’t really my LOs friend. Maybe it started that way, but once an LE is in full flight I was using that person as well… an object of lust & longing. I wasn’t the same person my other friends would recognise, or unbiased or genuinely openly me. I always ended up trying to be the version of me that I hoped they’d like most. Still a version of me, but constantly curated and (in light of they’re interests) amended – ‘oh I love that TV show too!’ Followed by rushing home and binging all 12 seasons of 24 episodes of stuff I couldn’t care much for just so we’d have stuff to talk about.
I look back and feel sad because that dynamic didn’t nurture like a supposedly close friendship should. It was roleplay.
“I wasn’t the same person my other friends would recognise, or unbiased or genuinely openly me. I always ended up trying to be the version of me that I hoped they’d like most. Still a version of me, but constantly curated.”
@Thomas. Thank you for sharing this, mate. I’ve been looking for a way to say the exact same thing and you say it quite well.
“It was roleplay.”
Yes, absolutely. The person I am around LO. Playacting. Roleplay. There’s something stagey and staged about it. I try to be an impossibly shiny version of myself and it’s dishonest and must come across as unnatural. Even more humiliating when it fails to have much impact on an LO!! (What? I’m “perfect” and you still don’t want me?) 😛
My question is over limerence. My so and i had been together for 8 years when he decided to tell me he had been in love with his lo for the last 5 years.
He said it had been over with us for a long time and i should have known this. He had also flirted (in front of me ) with and slept around (not with his lo )
toward the last few months of us being together.
I got with someone else, he passed away a while ago.
Stupid me believing the so was over his lo we got back together. His non-employed self living with me only for me to find out he is still in love with his lo. She will be locked up over the next ten years so not much chance him seeing her.
I love this man but with everything he has done I’m finding it very difficult to forgive.
To him she is the most beautiful woman (she is very pretty) Perfect person in the world he fantasizes about them being together.
He’s went as far as telling me that he should be a rock star (he plays guitar) with his lo standing right beside him.
He doesn’t think he’s hurt me, and continues to do so. He broke off our engagement I don’t understand how he does not see how badly he has hurt me.
Does limerence always end or do some people live out their lives in this fantasy world they have conjured up in their mind?
@Stephanie. Sorry to hear how difficult things are for you right now, and that your SO has hurt you so deeply by being limerent for someone else.
“Does limerence always end or do some people live out their lives in this fantasy world they have conjured up in their mind?”
I think the answer to this question is different for different people. Limerent episodes usually end for me because LO doesn’t want me and/or I transfer those feelings onto a new person before anything happens between LO and me. But some people can spend many years or their entire lives in fantasy. For that to occur, however, they’d have to get some positive reinforcement from their LO.
Do you think your SO’s LO even knows he has limerent feelings for her or do you think she’s ignorant and he’s just projecting his own emotional stuff onto her?
Hi Dr Limerence,
I really need help in my situation. Thank you in advance for any reply and help in my difficult situation.
I just found out that my husband of 3 yrs have been cheating on me with a co-worker. They worked together in a small office. He had been staying late at work and had been confiding to his 3 female co-workers (2 married, 1single), about our marital problems, his dissatisfaction with his married life and he blamed me for everything. He got so close to this female single co-worker. All his co-workers were telling him that he did his part in our marriage and it’s time to move on. They were also aware of the extreme closeness of my husband to this single co-worker. I think this is when they started their emotional affair. Prior to this (6 months before), this female single co-worker broke up with his BF, and my husband was giving her advice and helping her cope.
Now, after finding out about the infidelity, I saw their text messages to each other professing their love for each other with “i love you very very much”; I confronted him and he left and chose the affair partner. Looking at his phone records, I saw that the regular texting to each other really just started 1 month before me finding out about it. I was so surprised that my husband just said, “Okay”, and chose his affair partner without any remorse or guilt. He talked to me about how happy they both were and already made plans for the future -getting married within the year, buying a house together, baby plans on hold at the moment, and how they will travel together back/forth to work as they worked together, and save money. He is now living with her but can’t officially move in as the girl wants to wait 3 months but he’s been sleeping there daily.
Now, I realized this could possibly be limerence, right? He told me about his affair partner (LO) saying to him “where have you been all my life”, “we are so perfect for each other”, “i found my soulmate” and “they have strong connections they can’t ignore”.
So, my question is they both have limerence and emotional affair that led to this infidelity and him leaving me? How could this happen within one month or it has been going on for a while? My husband just started working full time in this company 1 month prior to the start of the affair, but was working 1x/week for 1 year before becoming full time. I remember he would mention this girl (affair partner now) at times and how she would call him her “work husband”. Now, i don ‘t know who experienced limerence here first, the girl or my husband? She was the reason why my husband got the full time job there.
Thank you!
I’m not Dr L but as a husband limerent for another woman, your story sounds like just plain infidelity to me. I take that from his cavalier attitude towards your two’s previous relationship.
Perhaps that is because being limerent for almost two years (9 of those months in her absence, she’s a former co-worker) I have always tried to do the right thing in regards to my marriage. I may not be able to always police my thoughts the way I should and find myself sometimes thinking of LO too much. But I have always tried to keep my actions in line with company policy and being a married man.
I also in hopes of getting help when the limerence got real bad after LO quit and moved on to another job, disclosed to my wife the day I learned about limerence in hopes that she could help me and be a sort of chaperone to my behavior. I have not contacted LO since she left in June and she has only contacted me once about 2 months after she left to see how I was doing.
The fact that he seems that he has done zero to stop this co-worker relationship from escalating makes me think that he just doesn’t care about you or your marriage and would have cheated eventually even if it weren’t with this woman. But that’s just my two cents from the information you posted. Dr L is much more qualified to judge your account.
And I am sorry that this has happened to you Hippos. I feel guilt enough for having limerence outside of my marriage. I can’t imagine the hurt having a PA with another woman would have on my wife.
Hi Adam,
thank you so much for giving me your insight into my situation. I am kind of confused too as I don’t know if they are in limerence or just really fell in love with each other so deeply? or is it Emotional affair initially as my husband was confiding in her about our marriage and fell in love? I really hope Dr. L would see my story and give me some insights. Thank you!
I apologize for my dissenting opinion. Ive only had knowledge of limerence for two months since I have discovered this site despite my limerence for over a year for this woman.
But never of any account that I’ve read have I heard a limerent being as callous as your partner. Most limerents even when they don’t understand still realize something is amiss. I knew it was something more than a crush for my LO long before I gained the knowledge I have since.
I’ve know many men being as cavalier about their interactions with other women in regards to their partner. And it really gets my goat up when a man treats a lady like that. I’m not really in a position to feel that way in regards to my recent shortcomings but I’m at least trying to make amends.
Whichever your case is there is a lot of great helpful people here that are willing to help you. Miss Lovisa is a regular poster here and she always has the kindest most helpful words to give. Hopefully she will see your plight and comment. She has an incredible insight on limerence.
I’m sorry, Hippos, I was avoiding your post on purpose. It triggered something in me and I didn’t think I could help you. I’ll share my reaction. It is not the same as the other commenters, but it could give you something to think about.
I am surprised by how quickly and easily your husband moved on. I am especially surprised given that you are both catholic. I recognize how serious marriage is to the average catholic. Your husband’s pursuit of divorce is a big deal. It says something about his level of desperation. I keep thinking that married life was very unpleasant for him. I don’t know what problems you two faced. You spoke of your three years of marriage as a struggle. Maybe it’s a struggle that he can’t handle anymore. It’s possible that his departure is not about running to this other woman but about running from you. I am so sorry to point that out to you. It must hurt and that is why I was silent. I could be wrong. I want to tell you some things I have seen in other women that I don’t like in regards to how they treat their husbands.
My mom still hates my dad passionately. She never has a kind word to say. If I stand up for my dad, she might force herself to say something nice, but it feels icky when she does it. My dad says their marriage was the same way. He couldn’t do anything right in her eyes. Now that my mom is older and needs my help more, she lives with my family. I frequently find myself thinking that I couldn’t stand to be married to her either. She just doesn’t care how her actions affect others. It’s hard. How long am I obligated to suffer before I say, “Sorry, I can’t take this. You have to go live with one of your other kids or in a care center.” My dad got to the point where he couldn’t take it either. He really tried to endure. But a lovely, kind woman was interested in him and my mom was just plain mean. I used to be angry at my dad for leaving, but now I think it may have been for the best.
One of my girlfriends confided in me that she was finalizing her divorce. My heart broke for her. I asked how long they were struggling. She said, “Three years ago, he told me that his emotional needs weren’t being met.” I naively asked, “What have you tried?” I assumed she was making desperate attempts to meet her husband’s needs. She said, “Why should he get his needs met? I have unmet needs.” I was shocked. How could she be so heartless towards another human being?
I feel like some women just expect their husbands to be a certain way and they don’t care how he feels about it. It honestly pisses me off. My LO2 has been enduring a sexless marriage for almost 30 years. As a young husband, he was determined to make his marriage work because he meant his vows. He thought they would work through their problems. They still have the same problems because she isn’t willing to work. She has everything she wants, but he suffers. I feel like he is trapped. It causes depression in him. He lives with a constant feeling of rejection. He says stuff like “I’m not a real man and that’s why my wife doesn’t want me.” Oh, it just makes me so angry that she has no concern for his feelings. To her credit, LO2 thinks her lack of empathy is attributed to her being on the autism spectrum. Okay, fine, but she can cognitively process how her actions effect him and she is capable of coming up with a plan to soothe him. She chooses not to.
So my first thought about your situation is, your marriage must have been awful for a Catholic man to flee so quickly. Maybe you were a bad wife.
Here is what I would suggest for you because you don’t have to be a bad wife. I recommend that you check out Alison Armstrong or John Grey. They are relationship experts. They might help you learn how to treat men. When you learn how to treat men, the world becomes a wonderful place! Men are amazing creatures! They are committed and loyal. They love making women happy. It’s their favorite activity. They will do anything to make their women happy. Seriously, learn the skills because everyone benefits.
If you want to save this marriage, I think your best resource would be Marriage Helper. Specifically learn about SMART contact and PIES.
Hippos, your actions have consequences. Consider how you treat others.
And please listen to what the men on this site say about their marriages. Learn how their SO’s actions effect them. The men on this site are good and kind. They are trying really hard to do the right things. Listen to them.
Good luck and sorry to be such a downer. I really do hope the future is bright for you
Dear Hippos,
Also not Dr. L, but I hope he sees your comment and responds.
I want to start off by saying how incredibly sorry I am that you are going through this. No one deserves to be treated like this. Your husband’s behavior is horrific. I can only imagine that your world is spinning right now, and I truly hope you have a support system at home to lean on.
I thoroughly disagreed with Adam. To me this sounds exactly like Limerence. Limerence can look and feel very different for different people. However, it is characterized by an all consuming desire to be with or think about another person. Some people do crazy things when they are in the throes of an LE. Other people resist the temptation of an affair. Regardless, your husband’s behavior is frightening.
For you right now the main thing is getting support. Do you have a regular doctor? I recommend seeing them and explaining the circumstances. Hopefully, they can get you in touch with a good therapist. Do you have family and friends that you can rely upon? Can you get people to stay with you at your house if you are feeling particularly upset?
I do not know you or your husband, but I imagine that right now, if he is in the throes of Limerence, he is not thinking clearly. As a result, he may say things to you that are incredibly cruel and thoughtless. Please try not to engage with him without support.
You may or may not be able to figure out why he is engaging in this behavior. You may not be able to change his behavior or make him see reason. The most important thing is to take care of yourself.
Again, I am so sorry this is happening to you. Please take care of yourself. You did not deserve this… and although it may take a long time- you will get through this.
Hi Arden,
Thank you so much for your insight and comforting thoughts and advice. Yes, I left our house as soon as I found out and haven’t been home since, and I gave him 2 weeks to move out. But he was actually staying with his LO after I found out. He just said that if he can stay at our house for 2 more months as he can’t move in with her yet.
To be clear, looking at our phone records, the regular texting and calls started 2nd week of January 2023 up to now and I found out about it first week of February but I had my suspicions already. To me, it was s fast that he completely fell out of love for me and now have future plans with another woman in a span of 1 month!
Good thing we have no kids as we have been trying to have kids for the past 3 years. I told myself that I don’t know this man anymore as he has changed. He used to love me very much and would pursue me whenever we have fights. We have been through a lot as a couple but we were able to withstand all the hard trials in our 3 year marriage.
This time, he said I pushed him away, he reached his limit, and it is all my fault that led him to have an affair. We are both religious, catholic and he said he has been praying for help every night and this is the answer to his prayers. He doesn’t want counselling as well or even to talk to our priest, whereas before, he would be the first one to initiate this.
I really hope Dr L would see my post and give me some insight!
Is this a regular infidelity, limerence, emotional affair with limerence? I really know that I can’t snap him out of this. He wants to divorce ASAP.
correction: texting started 2nd week of December 2022 to present!
Hello Hippos,
I have been thinking about you often throughout the day. The more you tell about your story, the more I can see the depths of your husband’s betrayal.
To begin with, I am so sorry about your experience with IVF. Most people who has gone through IVF or is close to someone who has knows what a grueling journey that is. You deserve love and support during this time. I hope you are getting that from friends and family.
I did want to say a quick word about this website. Many of the people who post here are actively trying to deal with their limerence and resisting the pull of an affair. Not everyone- but many of us have chosen to stay committed to our so and use this site as a support network. As such- you may be seeing a somewhat skewed version of limerence.
In the real world, many of us have seen limerants blow up their world (like your husband) over the “love of their life.”
In my personal experience, it is very hard to mend a relationship when someone has acted in such an abusive manner.
Marriage is hard! There are ups and downs. Your husband has proven to you that he is not mature enough to walk this path in life.
No one deserves to be treated in this manner. All marriages have issues. Not all spouses leave over an infatuation. And limerence is at its heart an infatuation.
Please get support. This may not be the best site for you as most of the people are limerants and may in fact not fully understand what it feels like to be on the other side of the equation.
I also strongly recommend that you speak to a lawyer immediately and stop all communication with your husband. This is really important as texts, emails and voicemails can be used in court. If you do indeed end up getting a divorce there are many ins and outs that a lawyer can help you navigate.
Finally, please tell yourself that you did not deserve this. Your husband’s limerence is most likely to do with his own issues. Please know that you will get past this. It might feel like your world is ending but it isn’t. I know the people on this website are rooting for you and wishing you the best.
Hippos, I too am sorry you are experiencing this. Your husband should have dealt with his marriage first before diving into an affair. That’s on him. And it does sound like mutual limerence with this woman based on the speed that it is all happening.
You didn’t really say, but it sounds like you are in the process of divorce if he is talking about marrying this other woman? And you don’t have kids? It also sounds like there was/is a lot of turmoil in your marriage over the last few years?
I don’t know your back story with this man or the details of your marriage but it sounds like he checked out emotionally of your marriage a while ago and has found someone he now connects with romantically on multiple levels. And to be honest, the limerence will fade and thus all may come crashing down or it may turn into lasting long term love. He’s making new plans for the future so it is clear he has fully moved on. Again, I’m sorry.
I would find a therapy group to be involved in to start the healing process and start moving on with your life as well.
Again, on the limited info you described it just sounds like a marriage filled with turmoil (maybe no one’s fault) that was destined to fail and he made the first movie. An a-hole move for sure, but still a move.
Hi Speedwagon,
Thank you for your reply, insight and comforting advice and thoughts.
Yes it is true we have been through so much in our short 3 year of marriage. We have been through counselling but not much has changed. My husband has some anger issues and anxiety. I have given him so much love and understanding throughout our marriage and for him to have an affair and leave me at the lowest point of my life (the day of my failed IVF) is really hard to swallow. We have been trying fertility treatment for so long that it has taken a toll in our marriage.
And for this other woman to be open to an affair knowing our problems and issues is beyond me. To hear my husband say that “she is his perfect match or soulmate” is really painful to hear. Not long time ago, I remember my husband saying that to me as I am his soulmate.
Are they in limerence both? How could anyone be so in love for 1 month and making future plans already? they are together 24/7 now as they work in a small office and live together. This will increase their limerence, right? instead of it fading, it will increase in intensity and hope is lost for my husband to get out of it and for the LO to wake up as well…
I really hope, Dr L will see this post and comment for some help. Thank you so much!
Hippos,
Sorry to hear about your situation.
DrL’s attention is elsewhere at the moment so a response from him might be delayed.
Please don’t take it as a sign of not being interested.
Miss Lovisa,
I woke up early this morning and our female cat jumped up on me to lay on my chest. Id fallen asleep on the recliner and momma was asleep on the couch from watching a movie together last night. The cat paws and noses on me for attention. I say out loud “ok little one im sorry im not use to a woman wanting attention from me” to which I hear a response from I thought my sleeping wife “well maybe if you hadnt broken your wedding vows you would”. It was bad of me to say. But she said it to hurt me too.
I think it’s good for you two to open the doors of communication. I hope it stays open for a bit. That’s a cute story, by the way. Your wife is kinda clever.
Here’s what you do…
You say, “You feel like I betrayed my vows because I had big feelings for LO. I can see why you feel that way.” See what happens next. If it feels right, say this. “I hope someday we get past this because I love you and I want to be with you. Do you have any ideas how we can move forward?”
Adam,
You took a cheap shot and she fired back.
Sorry, you own that one.
Yeah I deserved it.
Adam, I’m not sure you deserved “wedding vows” comment. That comment concerns me because it feels like a warped sense of reality. From everything I understand of your story, you did not engage in any type of affair with your LO and have been nothing but forthright with your wife about your feelings. I don’t like her perception of you or the situation at all.
Exactly! Well said, Speedwagon. But he can’t change her. Maybe a little validation will help. Maybe if she feels heard, she’ll let it go.
Speedwagon
This is difficult for her. I don’t think she actually understands limerence. Maybe she doesn’t want to, I’m not sure. But voluntary or not my limerence is my responsibility. I have to own it and make amends for it.
Ironically I don’t think I’d have an issue with her supposedly having limerence for another man as long as she got in the same bed with me each night. Im not delusional enough to think no other man is capable of sparking fires within my wife.
Also said cat is laying on my chest now again and I cant reach my drink I just made. Also momma says cat lays on my chest and stretches out her paws to lay over my heart because she can sense its irregular beating due to my afib.
Adam! You aren’t taking care of your heart?!? Stop it! Go for a walk. Today! Now! I want to hear about it. I’m serious. Now!
Miss Lovisa
I’ve had two procedures done (I forget the terminology) and am now on medication since it was found in 2019. My latest appointment was just last month and its been good enough news my doc put me on an annual visit finally. Later in the week the weather seems its going to warm up and I will resume my daily walks. I’m just not good with the cold. But I can take the heat.
Go anyway.
I ran a 50k in snow and rain on New Year’s Eve. You can walk in the cold.
Ready? Set? …. Go!
What medical qualifications do you have, Lovisa?
Frederico is getting sassy. I like it!
Lol, I have no medical qualifications. I base my encouragement of Adam’s exercise on the information he shared. He implied that he can walk and it is his favorite form of exercise, but he doesn’t like the cold. Maybe I’m wrong, but I think the real man behind the internet name “Adam” is capable of going for a walk in the cold. And I think it would be good for him because going for walks is good for almost everyone.
I’m willing to be wrong here, but…well…I’m not.
Now who’s the sassy pants?
Ok Miss Lovisa I will take a walk tomorrow. Lord knows my inability to say no to a woman hasn’t ever got me in trouble before now has it young lady? Hmmm?
Lol! I can’t wait to hear about it…. Thank you.