It’s October. Time for another visit to the LwL virtual coffee house.
My week has been super busy with prep for the Obsessive Thoughts Workshop. It’s launching in 8 hours time.
Last chance to get the discounted price of $49.
Sign up now if you want to learn how to break free of obsessive thought loops without withdrawal pain.
Social media and indirect contact
OK, moving on to something new.
I’ve been thinking a lot about the impact of social media on limerence, as it’s a topic that comes up a lot in discussion.
I’ve written before about how it can be a sort of double addiction. As well as the limerent reward, there’s also the dopamine hit of checking your phone for an update.
If you have an LO who posts a lot on social media, the temptation to check for updates will be driven by both desire for indirect contact with them and desire for a quick social media hit.
What I hadn’t really considered before was the impact of the times when you don’t get the rewards.
When you check and there is no update.
That isn’t neutral, when it comes to reward signalling in the brain. It registers as a reward prediction error.
The original impulse to check is your dopamine neurons firing to motivate you to seek reward, so you check their feed, and… no new message.
Your hope is disappointed.
That silences your dopamine neurons, and as a result you feel bad. A dip in dopamine is aversive.
This phenomenon is partly why uncertainty is so powerful for reinforcing limerence – you are constantly experiencing reward prediction errors, so your dopamine levels are peaking and dipping and never settle down. You can’t learn a correct pattern of behaviour that reliably gives the reward.
Instead, you are trapped in a state of expectancy. Never knowing. Always wondering. Constantly reinforcing the addiction.
A good example of this principle is managing nicotine cravings. If airline cabin crew know that they are on a long-haul flight and aren’t going to be able to smoke for a long time, their cravings subside. There’s no uncertainty. They make peace with the limitation.
But, as their arrival time approaches, the exact moment when they will at last be able to light up and take a deep draught of smoke into their expectant lungs comes closer, but is not yet certain. That sends their cravings into overdrive.
Expectancy is tough for mood regulation.
I suspect this is more important for intensifying limerence symptoms than I previously realised.
So, there’s a topic to kick things off today: has expectant waiting on social media (or email or texting) affected your limerence cravings?
Anyone noticed a pattern?
I am not on social media, so that is one problem I don’t have.
Also, LO is not much of a texter, so that’s not really a problem, either.
My limerence seems to have bottomed out for the time being. Where I do have a problem is that being around LO is thrilling, even though my opinion of him continues to slide downward.
I estimate that I am at about 20% of my original insanity, which I actually find to be bearable. Since I am finding it bearable, actually enjoyable, I can’t seem to come up with a way to motivate myself to reduce it further.
On the one hand, I am pleased to be doing as well as I am doing. On the other hand, I have self-loathing that I could be so attracted to a man who says so many things that I find objectionable.
I saw LO yesterday. He brought up the “unedited” video of the Minneapolis confrontation between ICE agents and civilian Renee Good, who was shot dead in what appears to be an unprovoked attack. I asked him if he had been able to find the video showing that Ms. Good rammed the ICE agent with her car. He snapped at me that it would take him 30 minutes to find it, suggesting that he was never going to do so. Just as well, because I am sure it doesn’t exist.
The fact that he continues to believe that Ms. Good instigated the attack and deserved to be shot is ridiculous and completely unacceptable.
Yet I continue to drool.
Speaking of which, did you see the family just filed lawsuits over this? I watched Becca Good’s portion of the news conference they gave. There were so many awful things said about her online, and about Renee, basically painting them as frauds or convicts or that they brought it on themselves—and they’re just ordinary people. There’s Becca struggling to move on without the love of her life, trying to raise Renee’s youngest child and get him to Kindergarten, while he’s desperately missing his mother. And I go into the comments of the AP article (oh why did I do that) and people are still in there with their character assassinations.
To Serial:
I did notice that. One good thing is that LO would not be online attacking her, I will at least give him credit for that.
But I fail to understand why these people are so vilified.
I’m not on social media and since I became Limerent almost 3 years ago I’m so thankful that I’m one of the few who stays away from it. I believe it’s more than a double edged sword, maybe more like a triple edged sword.
On the first edge I’d be checking it constantly to see if she posted any pics of herself which would only feed the addiction and break the no contact rule.
On the second edge I might see that she had a get together with a group of friends over the weekend and couldn’t even think to invite me giving me a huge sense of FOMO/ (fear of missing out).
On the third edge I would constantly be posting pictures of myself doing cool things like extinguishing a vehicle fire with all of my turnout gear and air pack on as a way to look all heroic or letting everyone know I just got back from a 10 mile run. And I would only be doing it with the purpose of trying to get my LO to notice and maybe comment, not for my own good.
In my humble opinion social media is nothing more than adding gasoline to a fire for us limerents!
10 miles? That’s a half of Marathon 🏃♂️ Very impressive 👍! You’d run your LO out of your system soon…
Keep it Up 💪
To Richie:
Such a great post. Social media is one big exercise in FOMO.
I already suffer from FOMO due to being disabled and semi-housebound. I prefer not to think about all the activities I can’t participate in. I’m not in denial, but I don’t want to shove my own face into it, either.
Now, if I could extinguish a vehicle fire while running ten miles (?), that might be a different story. (Might as well combine your accomplishments for an additional boost.)
I don’t think any long-distance jugglers, runners, walkers would carry with them a whole air pack, except a big bottle of water w/o a smart watch.
Extinguishing a vehicle (most likely someone else’s) 🔥, with whatever one has in hand, is truly heroic!
The most challenge still lies on how to extinguish LE 🔥 in 1 year or 5 decades… 😍
Dear Snow ❄️
Great point about extinguishing my LE 😆!
However according to Dr L and several other sources Limerence on average lasts between 18 months to 3 years. The very end of this month will mark 3 years since my infatuation began so fingers crossed 🤞 that I wake up bright and early on November 1st and my LE is 100% gone! 😆 however I’m not going to hold my breath.
To Richie:
When I hit my three-year anniversary of limerence, I naively thought that my feelings for LO would turn off like an expired parking meter.
Didn’t happen. However, when I look back at how badly I was bouncing off the walls in 2023 and 2024, I feel blessed to be doing relatively well today.
I’m coming up on 3-1/2 years, and I think I am stuck at a plateau, but it’s not unpleasant.
To Miss Snow:
I was trying to make fun of the way that people exaggerate on social media.
Too bad Richie can’t extinguish all of our limerence problems with his cool firefighter gear!
Richie,
Oh, by November 1st your ❤️🔥 will be gone 🪽 with 💨 ?
Okay, I’ll trick-n-treat a ❤️🔥 👻 to leave on 10/31 evening 🎃 , and then check with you the next day…. 🤪
Miss Norma 🏠 ,
I’m not on Social Media (except a suspended work IG), so I did NOT even get your joke. Anything on SM does not interest me.
Let’s see if Richie could extinguished his own ❤️🔥 🔥 by the end of this month, with all his cool gears from his work…
Thank you Norma. And to clarify I’m a firefighter/ EMT in my town so that’s why I used that as an example and just like my LO I’ve been a runner for over 20 years so that’s why I used the 10 mile example.
I am very sorry to hear you are disabled and semi-housebound but I always enjoy reading your posts. Thank you and all the best to you!
To Richie:
You don’t have to clarify. Your post was very clear. I was just making an attempt at a joke.
Also, perhaps a gentle poke at myself–just yesterday, I screamed with ecstasy because I was able to install the Hulu app on my TV correctly.
Richie,
I think the 3-year expiration date really depends on the limerent and the specific circumstances around the LE and, most importantly, what they’re doing to end the LE.
I’ve had LEs last one year. I’ve had some last more than 3.
I’ve never looked up my LO on social media, but the pictures that would really bother me wouldn’t be work photos. It would be pics with his SO. Or pics with him and some woman. I’d wonder if he was hooking up with her.
Thanks for the input Marcia.
The one thing I’ve mentioned before on this site is that I’ve noticed how far I’ve come over the past year.
Like so many limerents I spent the first year not being able to sleep and having to take Z-quil just to get a few hours of sleep. Now I’m finally almost totally back to normal even though the thoughts will always be there.
The one thing this has taught me is to never ever let this happen again!
„ adding gasoline to a fire for us limerents“
So true. Looking at LOs picture doesn‘t make sense and just hurts. Writing a message or staying in contact is gasoline! I wish my inner fire departement would to its work..
For this impossible, harmful LE 🔥, your “inner fire department” indeed needs to be fixed or renovated completely…
You have stayed away from checking this creepy LO’s profile, right? I hope so… 🙂
To ❄️
(no need to reply🥰)
There are many azure-winged magpies, blackbirds, and sparrows that appear in another green area; the previous area doesn’t seem to be their favorite.
And the hard-to-identify bird—I was puzzled by its plumage color. It seemed to be a blackbird with feather loss/fading around its neck 😂. I may have seen it again, together with other blackbirds. The feather I picked up is probably from an azure-winged magpie, though it’s a bit larger than I thought.
In Chinese superstitions, the blackbirds circling is always ominous sign signaling some deaths make place.
Azure-winged magpies are so loved and rare in the north.
Lucky you can see them! Maybe they can help you forget your “infatuating Dalmatian”… 🐩
😀
Edit:
“Some death may take place.”
Thank you! Some birds can be very common depending on the area. Today, an azure-winged magpie I was staring at preened with its back to me (showing off such alluring tail feathers, butt, fluff, and claws—I’m not a cat). If I could be with those lovely wings, I’m sure it would be much harder for LE to happen.
New try, one week now.. He sent me a message on Monday, „Hi“. I didn’t answer and deleted the chat.
Unfortunately I still think of him too much, my feelings for him are too much.. I never forget what he said to me on the phone over two years ago, „if I wouldn’t be married and if I wouldn’t have a child, I would have been with you already „.. 😞
Laloba,
Even if what he said to you two years ago were true, the reality is totally different story; anyone could say those beautiful, empty word, why his words weight so much to? Have you searched enough possible answers?
I believe what you’re expressing here, it’s just that myself can no longer comprehend how one is able to generate so much feelings for someone she has never met in person… 🤔
What a mysterious power! (I was naively “fooled” once by words only, later I wouldn’t trust words alone, even my own, which were often fed just by imaginations alone… )
How come you can’t block his messaging? Or you just can’t do it yet? *sigh*
LO has all sorts of positions in the church, community, AND demanding job, and he often shuts off his personal phone, so he’s never done a lot of texting. Doesn’t do much on social media, either, though he does now and then. BUT just searching for his name in the Facebook would bring up his picture to gaze at….
I already have a tough enough time dealing with LO in real life. Having access to him on social media would probably kill me. Been tempted to search for him on social media but haven’t because I’d probably show up as a friend suggestion on his feed. I’m also not on s.m. as much anymore. I get no dopamine hit from it.
I’d love to find a way to get a good dopamine hit that doesn’t involve things that would be bad for me.
LO and I were talking recently about his involvement in a club sport in my town and that he also goes to a public market in my town after practice. So I’m on s.m. later that day and there’s a post about the market, which never showed up before, and another post about a female team begging for players for that same club sport. Limerent me, seriously considered joining the team but wouldn’t that be weird to start doing the same sport as LO?
Speaking of weird, LO told me exactly what time he’d be at the market in MY town (and he knows I live there), so my limerent brain went into overdrive. The stars aligned perfectly. My S.O. was busy and I had free time to go to the market in hopes of running into him. Luckily, I ran into my neighbors and walked around with them. I couldn’t locate LO but then later saw him leaving. No clue if he saw me. Then I was terrified that if he did see me, he’d think I’m a stalker. But he was in MY town. Lol. My safe space and my market. Don’t worry, I probably won’t have an opportunity to do that again, as S.O. isn’t normally busy at that time and I’d probably end up going to the market with SO.
Fast forward a few days later, I had a pleasant surprise. Got to spend a solid two hours with LO walking close to him in a crowded setting which meant we bumped into each other a few times. He seemed to enjoy me being by his side/following him around like a puppy dog. I even apologized to him for being clingy (I hate being in crowds and losing the people I’m with) and I think he said something cute and touched my shoulder but my brain has blocked that memory out (just imagine the hours of ruminating). Those two hours left such a good feeling and I just want to hang onto that because it was calming and cozy. It’s that exact feeling that I wish I could have forever without any depressive crashes and cravings for LO.
I’m tired of the anticipation of interactions with LO as they always disappoint but I’d welcome pleasant surprises. Maybe there would be enough of those to snuff out my limerence or at least kill the ups and downs of this LE, get me back to a stable mood.
I would think of some creative, artistic hobbies, even starting from scratch: painting, drawing, (thin rice) paper cutting (a Japanese art form), creative writing, blogging, collaging, sculpturing, etc…
The artistic creation has been proven effective to reduce/cure stressed mind, and bring pleasant, stable “creative high” (w/o surprises), just look at Yayoi Kusama, my iSO auntie whose oil-painting got quite good.
I think you can join that female sport team, as long as LO would not be in the club. Physical sweating is really helpful to ease anxious or ruminating mind.
Dealing with another bout of sadness. Yay. The “high” from last week didn’t last very long. Lol! I know that pattern well now, yet can’t break the cycle. 7 months and counting… Blah.
So perhaps try some Stoic tricks: lower down your expectation, lower your “high” to “moderate” (not too low, perhaps 40~50%)?
Moderation of something often last longer, more stable, especially when you yourself generate/create that “something”, not depending on LO’s interests totally (perhaps a little bit as a push/catalyst)? 🙂
A correction here: I meant to low down one’s “Hope” to
40~50%, but 0% Expectation!
Expectation brings one disappointments (all the time), but hopes (with steady efforts for your own benefits) pumps one to get out of the bed in the morning and have a health dose of imaginations before bedtime…
“Tomorrow is another day…”
As soon as my LO began her serious, new relationship, I exited Instagram. I thought it would be too painful to see her happiness laid out in front of me, having built the fantasy alternative reality in my head that she was usually just at home most of the time, mooning over me (I know 😐).
I returned to Insta, tentatively, a few months later – only to discover that she had not only ‘unfriended’ me, but had also removed me from her list of followers. To this day, I have no idea whatsoever why she felt the need to do that and is certainly something I would never raise. But we both have private accounts, so there is no way of seeing what she posts now, even if I wanted to.
This is, without question, an unequivocally GOOD THING and there are two main reasons for that:
1) I can enjoy looking at what my friends and family are up to knowing I won’t, at any stage, be confronted with something that will upset/trigger/unsettle me. It’s freeing!
2) More profoundly, I am now able to enjoy something (Insta) which I previously believed was only about HER. She was the reason I began using it, she was the one ‘like’ I craved on every single one of my posts. I was addicted to her approval.
This is how I felt about a lot of things related to her and when our friendship ended I was utterly frightened by the idea that so many of my actions, behaviours, decisions, impulses had been driven by my addiction to her all along. I told my therapist how scared I was that she was the scaffolding holding up the crumbling edifice of my emotional life. Remove the scaffolding… and what would be left?
In reality, the building is fine, the structure is sound, and removing the scaffolding has revealed how beautiful it has been all along. Social media is a microcosm of that. I enjoy it unashamedly… but even more now, without a malevolent element reinforcing my addiction.
Come away if you can.
To Phil:
What a great summary of the mind games that social media can play.
I am so glad you have found some peace.
I still won’t go on Instagram because I have issues with estranged children and a horrible ex-husband. My ex-husband’s new wife used to post prolifically on Instagram, bragging and exaggerating about everything.
When my youngest daughters were still at home, they showed me a video of her at a country line-dancing event, where she captioned herself “the best of the best.” I burst out laughing. She was a marginally adequate dancer who knew the steps and could keep time to the music.
Which is why I attempted to make a joke above about Richie and his accomplishments, but you really should not try to make jokes on the internet because it’s too confusing.
I’ll go back to the over-70 table now and look at my bone scans.
“In reality, the building is fine, the structure is sound, and removing the scaffolding has revealed how beautiful it has been all along. Social media is a microcosm of that.”
A microcosm of what? “Sound building” of a personal life? A pictographs of a personal life? How many people in SM also honestly show their laundry of various colors? How much smiles covering swallowed, lonely tears (of Robin Williams or Matthew Perry), followed by thousands of viewers’ laughters?
A life made of words and pictures alone is superficial, partial and impersonal to me. I get to know people through my naked eyes and realistic interactions over a period of time.
I’m staying away from SM, while I can “follow/lead” people in reality.
That’s not what I meant, but I clearly didn’t articulate it very well.
I mean I was concerned that my social media activity/behaviour was entirely dictated by my LO, and that this was actually a microcosm of my wider emotional wellbeing and how she infected it.
Got it! I was thinking possible issues of SM in a broader scale.
You sound doing very well with the “freedom” without LO! Keep it up, no more peeking…🫣
My father taught me not to ask questions that I didn’t want to know the answer to.
Looking at your LO’s social media is a great way to reinforce that you just might not be all that special to them.
Going further, one of my EAP counselor’s favorite questions was: “What would you do with the knowledge if you had it?”
That woman could be a real buzzkill.
In the situation of an unavailable LO, ignorance is REALLY a blessing!
Our imagination of anyone will die soon or later without being fed by scattered information.
LE,
“My father taught me not to ask questions that I didn’t want to know the answer to.”
This made me laugh. It’s like the old adage: Never ask a man, “Where is this going?” If you have to ask, you already know the answer.
To L.E.:
Another question. If I start wishing that I would bump into LO, I ask myself, “If I bump into him, what will I HAVE?”
Q: Why do you keep banging your head against the wall?
A: Because it feels good when I stop.
To L.E.:
There is merit to that argument.
I think it’s simpler than we think. You find him attractive. He sets off feelings you can’t get elsewhere. His bad points are irrelevant to this simple fact.
Your friend’s suggestion is hilarious.
I’m working through the Thought Loops course at the moment. Even having read Dr L’s book and read lots of his material on here, I’m finding it helpful and it brings new perspectives to my situation.
For me, I don’t mind finding LO attractive. Just a normal crush makes life more interesting and isn’t a threat to my marriage. It’s thinking about him when he’s not there that I would still like to reduce, and the Thought Loops course is helpful for this. I already think about him far less than I used to but extra understanding and control of the situation is still helpful.
To Miss Cloud:
I also think my friend’s comments are hilarious, which is why I posted them. I don’t take offense at all; I know she doesn’t understand, and she’s technically correct. LO IS nothing special. I don’t necessarily think he’s a bad influence on me. He’s not trying to persuade me to do anything unwise, although the time I spend thinking about him might be better spent elsewhere.
“Q: Why do you keep banging your head against the wall?
A: Because it feels good when I complain about the pain to others and get their sincere sympathy. The more I get, the more I’ll bang against the wall”
The view from outside Norma’s bubble, compliments of another neighbor, a dear friend of mine, who does not understand limerence.
“LO’s house is an EYESORE! It will never sell. You’d have to be crazy to buy that piece of crap. It looks like a dump!! It will take a special buyer with lots of money. He made a big mistake buying that house. Poor investment.
“I have passed him when he has been standing outside by his house. He is nothing special. I don’t understand it. He is a bad influence, Norma! You are nuts.
“How old is he? 67? Maybe he has early onset dementia.”
To which I say, “But he makes my knees go weak.”
To which she says, “That’s crazy. Why don’t you think about doing charity work instead?”
“That’s crazy. Why don’t you think about doing charity work instead?””
I think that is great advice.
That’s a sign when the limerent is getting better. When there’s less focus on what the LO is doing
and more focus on what they are doing in their own life, their own goals, their own hobbies.
When you (generic limerent) start posting about things you are excited about in your own life, that’s when you know you are moving along on the road of recovery.
Social media played a big, if not the biggest part in the development of my LE. I really want to go into this in more detail here, when I have the time..it’s been hard to get away from it but I finally did yet I still find it hard, if not impossible sometimes, it is not to be underestimated. Thank you for this topic because I have a lot to say about it…
Congratulations, that you finally stayed away from social media!
The temptation of checking xLO would always be there, particularly you were together once upon a time….
Did you say something like that your glimmer at xLO hit you like a freight train, more than a decade ago or recently? So you’ve stopped checking his SM now? Wow, that would be superbly challenging! 🧗
Forgive me if I don’t remember your LE story clearly… 🙂
No worries! And thanks, you remember quite a lot. We briefly dated over a decade ago and there was no glimmer. I met my SO, forgot about him, then we met again. I just wanted to say hi to him, because I was in a phase where I wouldn’t hold any grudges to anyone and simply wanted to recognize his exsistence and the fact that I remembered him, no glimmer, no intentions, probably some naïvety on my side. That’s when he asked if I were on socials and he added me and I instantly regretted my approach. He started sending me messages scattered in the years after that…a like here, a heart there, some chats ‘You crossed my mind lately…’ started talking about topics that interest me, invited me out for walks..Oh yes why not? We can be friends right? Regardless of my SO, there are no deep feelings here right? So let’s be friendly. A like here, a like there, some invites. Oh you know I might be more ‘active’ right now but nothing I post has anything to do with the fact that I am in desperate need of that one little heart from that one particular person? ‘You are my type of woman’ oh yeah sure. Wait a minute..so I am somebody’s type? Now why should you tell me all this? You can imagine the impact. So back and forth, no glimmer..until my relationship with SO got in a rut years later. Turned into a crisis, a near breakup, and then we met again and that’s when the freight train glimmer happened. I could see something sparkling in his eyes and it scared the shite out of me and it made me lose myself in a burst of euphoria simultaneously and it was weird and amazing and nothing I had ever felt before. But I couldn’t act on it. I was in crisis mode. And then the social media thing really hit off and there was no escape. It’s been an intense few years of intermitted reïnforcement, ambiguous encounters, hot cold, breadcrumbs…I am so glad that me and SO worked it out through all this and we are doing so good. But the pull of social media is still there, even though in time I hid, then unfriended, then even deactivated my account. But his posts are set public so in just a few clicks it is so easy to keep up to date, it’s brutal. But the thing that really made me get off the apps completely was the photograph of him and his new girlfriend. So there you go, self preservation mode on. I feel better now. But it’s been tough. Blocking all socials from my life was the best thing I could do.
I see, it’s a story of a long-term, committed relationship conquering transitory, intense limerence, despite its addictive drug quality!
I agree that social media is gasoline to unwanted, unhealthy relations, including “friendship”.
Confradulations again! 🏆
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My entire connection in my LE was 100% based on social media. I was constantly waiting for his new stories, new profile pictures, new messages, and even for him to be online on the Messenger I use, which I could track down to the exact minute. On bad days, I checked my phone every few minutes just so I wouldn’t miss my next hit of dopamine. It was awful.
Are you aware that what you know about your online LO is only fragmented, imagined, or biased (based on your hopes), since you’ve never met him in person?
His new stories, profiles pictures, messages, video clips, etc could all be contrived/performed to impress you and his other “dates” (behind his wife); they’re not realistic or integral of him.
It’s your own imaginations of him and his life, based on those fragmented information that GIVES you a hit of dopamine.
Yes, it is only in my head.. It is so hard to let go. Sometimes it filled my emptyness inside when I checked his profile. when I feel sad and he just writes „whats up?“, I am feeling better.
Can’t you see that the cause of your LE is not LO or his words, even if they’re true, but it’s the sense of your “emptiness”.
If you feel purposeful, busy with your work, your daughter, and your personal life, whatever he says would not make a dent in your life…
Have you sought out therapy to help you with your personal inquiries “what is truly missing in my life? why? How can I reduce/remove the sense of emptiness without using this internet LO as a temporary, inauthentic “painkiller”?
Sorry if I speak too straightforward.
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