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Living with Limerence

Life, love, and limerence

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    • Such an obsession for another person was/is unthinkable in my COO, not due to its Red culture, but throughout its entire history. It’s under a belief: one’s thinking, feeing, and spirit cannot be truly “owned” by another (even if one is willing to give), they have their independent life within one’s system.

      Over desiring anything is considered highly foolish, and one of COO’s traditions is to cultivate and compete for knowledge and wisdom at the individual level… so studies, trainings, self-cultivation, very dull…

      Romantic crushes were/are all everywhere, but little limerence was heard/recorded; PA exist(ed). People desire but don’t stubbornly pursue or cling to impossibles or clear unavailable or flickering and superficial affections.

      True friendships and real love would be tested in time, space and adversity under advice of experienced elderly and trustable friends.

      Reply

      • I meant that true friendships and real love become existent only after those tests…

        If one can get one each, one’s considered very lucky, Fate has her undeniable “role” in life of COO.

        Reply

        • Really interesting, Snow, and a marked contrast with Western society which is chock full of songs, poems, novels and films about early romantic love and obsession.

          I wonder whether it would be possible to compare incidence of limerence between the two cultures?

        • ☁️,

          Since, the concept of limerence is still new here and nonexistent in my COO, I can’t definitively say what I know were limerence incidents. I’ll just describe to you 4 cases I personally know and experienced, and leave them to your judgement.

          1. A 4/5th grade quiet girl (with a visible, big thyroid bump) falling “crush/love” for a very smart, flamboyant boy classmate, who was interested in her. While remaining single and refusing dating at all, he married, divorced and remarried with two daughters, respectively. The cruel fact was when he’s imprisoned for some financial crime, she visited him in person while living hundreds of miles away. She worked in a legal field in the capital city and made the professional effort to help reduce his sentencing from 10 to 5 years.

          He’s getting 2nd divorce (I saw him in 2018), she still single living hundred miles away (already geologically apart for decades). As far as we know, she never dated any boys or girls during those decades. Every time we had classmate reunion (last time in 2024), she never showed any bitterness but contentment (she calls her huge thyroid bump “my pet”.)

          Was she ever in limerence with him, or it’s a time, space and adversity – tested unrequited love?

          2. An older, very pretty cousin of mine was hanging out with only girls from her teen to late 20s. My uncles/aunts and her community were “jumping on her” constantly, but she’s stubborn. The girls she was seeing (I met one) looked common or tacky. “Girls liking other girls” was taboo and had to be “cracked down” back then. Before she turned to 30, she finally married a man (out of “paper matching”?) who later raised to a medium governmental position. They had a son who went to Sydney for college. But the husband recently “abandoned” her (not sure when) and moved to another city. Two years ago when I saw her, she didn’t look very sad but melancholy and only hinted he’s gone, which is socially embarrassing.

          Was she a lesbian but married only under societal pressure?

          3. Another younger cousin of mine fell in crush/limerence with a boy in her early 20s. They broke up after one year of dating, and she went out of mind: everyday she went to the streets crosses lingering and humming/singing something. The whole town knew her as a mad girl. Of course, my uncle/aunt living in the countryside took a physical care of her but no one could get her out of it. The madness lasted over 4 years, and she somehow recovered (I don’t know details).

          Then her mate choices were limited due to that piece of history. Finally a limping guy with limited education married her and they produced a boy. The family eventually moved to the capital city where the son could go to a better HS. Last time, I video chatted with her and a bit of her hubby, she looked content and joyful. I could trace any “madness” she ever had!

          Did her temporary madness was a result of limerence?

          4. During my last college reunion 12 years ago, my two married classmates (cc) suddenly fell in something with me with my total “ignorance”. With his invitation, I later visited the one residing in the US and stayed with his wife and son. Only by the evening before my departure, he very subtly expressed his affectionate feelings. Only by then I understood his puzzling giddy behavior during our reunion (his wife was absent) two years before.

          By COO college reunion unwritten “rules”, the 2nd cc (unattractive and boring to me) was assigned to accompany me for local site scenes during the reunion. He spoke little and behaved quite awkwardly — like a puppy dog. I thought he was just shy or because we barely knew each other back in the college (from different majors). We didn’t keep any direct, personal contact after the reunion. Two years later, he went to attend a conference in Canada, suddenly contacted me for arranging a lounging, and just landed at my town for three days.

          With the intention to show courtesy and repay his previous hospitality, I toured him one day in town, during which I struggled to keep a physical distance with his “pushy” behaviors. The guy never said “I like you” or even hinted his emotions, but pushed to have dinners at my home and to hug me in public. He didn’t take any of my hinted NOs, so finally I used excuses/lies not to see him and directed his sole tour… When I finally put him on a bus to the airport, my relief was heavenly! I had told the story before here in LwL.

          After returning to Canada, he dumped the “cruel mistreatment” he received from me to our shared classmate (I did/do not know him well, either, but liked his gentle temperament and quiet maturity), who later called me asking why. So for over two hours, I furiously told this classmate what was my side of the story, since the reunion. After that I never heard from either of them, although I saw the 2nd cc in 2024 reunion. He looked calmer but still tried to annoyingly video tape me without my permission.

          Was the 2nd classmate in limerence with me a decade ago?

          To be an unwilling LO to a friend/acquaintance limerent is not desirable but burdensome…. 🫤

          ☁️, I hope your life is getting better and steadier with your LE’s further receding.

        • Edit:

          1. “…smart, flamboyant boy classmate, who was Uninterested in her.”

          2. “She called her bump, “my child”.

          3. “I could NOT trace any “madness”…” — I always subconsciously, habitually omitted, No or Not, in my writing.

        • All of those stories could equally happen here. Maybe our cultures aren’t so different after all.

          The “the 2nd cc (unattractive and boring to me)” was quite badly behaved, wasn’t he! Sadly that’s not unusual here either.

          Yes, I’m doing ok, thanks.

          Another thought regarding being a in love with and married to one person while also having a limerent crush on another – which ties in with the topic of this post. I find it’s difficult to fantasise about someone who you’ve been with for many years and know completely. There’s nothing left to imagine!

        • ☁️,

          After posting to you yesterday, I had a new revelation by the night about why I was always so ignorant/oblivious of others’ unexpressed affection to me; it happened so many times in the past (didn’t care much about gossips, either)

          It dawned on me: whenever I was uninterested in someone or disliked them (both genders), I automatically assumed or believed that they weren’t interested in me or couldn’t like me, too. It’s opposite of a limerent’s mentality!

          Due to such a habit, I was quite insensitive to many guys’ affections, which were obvious to bystanders. I was always “shocked” 🫣 when being informed by a third party or by cc’s crazy behavior! 🙄

          Am I so aloof or self-centered that I was unable to either see or care about unwanted affections?

          Maybe I was born a half Stoic… 😇

      • Hi ☁️,

        “All of those stories could equally happen here. Maybe our cultures aren’t so different after all.”

        You’re right that cultures are just different coats covering the same body — the universal human natures.

        “I find it’s difficult to fantasise about someone who you’ve been with for many years and know completely. There’s nothing left to imagine!”

        Ahh… the word “fantasize”! 😃 Why does anyone need to fantasize one’s partner in reality? If such a need exists, perhaps we can keep reinvent ourselves or achieve what we want in creative fashions, like those artist pairs? I believe, their successful marriage is attributed to their independent, artistic pursuits while in a marital union — “Stand alone together”. They are also not “merged” into or “possessed” by each other….

        I don’t think one partner can know another ever completely, because all of us change and evolve over time, just pray they don’t grow apart! How many breakup cases out there? 😔

        Moreover, a solid, healthy, soul-enchanting relationship is not about fantasying one’s partner, but building trusts, loving rituals, deep mental connection, and emotional intimacy (or co-dependency). It’s a free, enliven Tango that needs two matching dancers with independent esthetic styles.

        Reply

        • Ingmar Bergman’s “Scenes from Marriage” is very engaging with so much characters’ inner talks. (Played by Liv Ullmann).

          The last scene – the long divorced couple got back together in their 80s, and climbed into their bed together and hugged… I can’t forget that touching scene after 2 decades.

        • “Moreover, a solid, healthy, soul-enchanting relationship is not about fantasying one’s partner, but building trusts, loving rituals, deep mental connection, and emotional intimacy (or co-dependency)”

          Truly, I have all of that with SO! But a few years ago our relationship was under stress for various reasons and limerence for someone else took hold. Having got into the habit of fantasising about LO, I got stuck in the thought loops as described above by Dr Tom, even after the stresses were resolved. I wasn’t saying that it’s necessary to fantasise about one’s partner, but it would be a convenient way of redirecting my thoughts when they stray to LO, if only it were easy.

        • ☁️,

          Maybe take a 2nd honeymoon? Or do something drastically with SO together in order to fantasize” him?

          I know it’s extremely difficult and have little idea how to experiment it since I don’t have a SO, as a Guinea Pig.

    • Oh my God, the girl is too brave in delivering such a limerent (assuming he was also in love with her) affection 🙈 to such a “wooden” 🪵 face… 😮

      Reply

  3. This is my first message on this blog, which I have read extensively in the last weeks and come to appreciate for its respectful and caring tone for all parties involved.
    I am 47F, married with children, limerent for a coworker/ superior in a similar situation. With the help of this website, I have been doing a lot of thinking on what provokes such limerent episodes in my psyche and came to the conclusion that my pattern is „an admirable person in authority who shows that he/she likes me and whose desires I want desperately to satisfy”. It happened in HS with a female teacher, and during graduate school with a male (much older) professor. I do not think I have been limerent for my actual husband, although I fell in love with him. Right now, my third LE involves, as I said, a coworker in a position of authority over me who seems to like me and in the last 8 months or so has been in contact with me daily (by text, in work groups, but also in person). It seems like this is the most dangerous situation I have ever been in, since I feel for the first time that it is quite possible to act on this attraction (the closeness in age and work conditions could step over the boundaries I have had with the other LOs). This is why it seems urgent to really understand the causes of my infatuation. Beside the frequent contact from my LO, which is not in my control, I think my childhood history of a distant father whose approval I desired at all costs (but never came in a satisfying manner) pushed me into this limerent madness. I have noticed that I feel better, with more clarity of mind and action when I convince myself that the LO does not like me, that is just my mind playing tricks on me whenever he flirts and jokes with me like with everybody else. I know that you mentioned that an important part of the attraction is simply knowing that the other person likes you/ is infatuated with you. This is my case. I could not fall limerent with someone unavailable or disinterested. I am sure there are other people like me, could you recommend resources/ articles on this kind of ‘glimmer’ and how it can be overcome? Thanks a lot!

    Reply

    • Meli-rant,

      Look for the “Search this website” box on the page. Enter “co worker” with the space. It will give you a list of related blogs. You can do the same thing for “Glimmer.” If you’re really ambitious and haven’t already done it, hit the Archives link at the bottom of the page.

      Sadly, DrL has closed comments on older blogs so if something in one grabs your attention, copy the link and paste it in your post. The older blogs have a lot of great info along with a lot of personal stories. There’s a blog on Limerence for a Co-worker.

      Reply

    • Meli-Rant,

      Well done for reaching out with your experience.

      I’m a similar age to you, M, been limerent for my F co-worker for several years (more than 3). I’m with a partner, LO isn’t. I am through the dangerous bit of the LE but the embers still burn.

      I totally get the part that you can’t be limerent for someone who doesn’t show interest in you. Same as you, my LO changed her behaviours towards me (attentiveness, level of contact, wanting non work interaction) after an even longer time (nearly 10 years) than in your example, and that set me off on the LE train.

      If your LO is in daily text contact etc, he knows exactly what he’s doing. It doesn’t mean he has intent to act but does mean he probably has attraction. Is it helpful to try and separate the two in your head?

      How to solve this type of glimmer? I don’t have experience of the authority figure side. In my situation (as the one of the two parties involved not free to act) it took a lot of bloody-mindedness, trying to see LO in a whole sense (realistic flaws as well as likeable aspects). But more than that it was seeing that there was no possible good outcome to either acting on my feelings, or disclosure – with the (true) premise that I always wanted to stay with my SO. How could disclosure or pursuit ever end well? You start to realise that continuing the LE game is entirely futile. I did give a light (plausible deniable, but got the message across) form of disclosure that seemed to help a bit. We both withdrew for a while after that and it seemed to end the most intense bit of the LE.

      But it all took a lot of time. Like you, I couldn’t and can’t have NC. What are your ideas on how you can bring it back under control without NC? People here can definitely help you, but I’m interested in what you’d say first.

      Is LO married / partnered / single? It would be interesting to know where he is coming from in this dynamic.

      Reply

      • Hi LaR. Sorry for jumping in. I get what you said about the length of LE. Mine is almost 5 years now. It has also significantly reduced in its intensity, helped a lot by NC. We have minimal contact now on social media, it may be a good idea to stop that now as well for more peace of mind. Will the limerent feelings every go away? Who knows. For now, I will take the reduced intensity of LE as a win, and keep moving.

        Reply

  4. Hi Meli-rant. Welcome to LwL. I have been on this site actively for the past couple of years, though I am returning today after many months. My situation seems similar to your. I was limerent for a co-worker, despite both of us being married. The whole episode lasted 4+ years, and was very painful once the initial glimmer was gone. What really helped me get over this was the fact that she moved out.

    One of the best ways to get over this to have no contact. Since that is not possible in your case, might I suggest that you try to keep contact as professional as possible. One big mistake that I made was that I “acted” on the glimmer, and initiated non professional contact with her, she did the same. The other thing that helped me was to not beat myself up too much about this – just observe the feelings, and let them pass, they always did. So, I would advise you to keep communication totally professional if you can.

    As to what caused this episode, I’m still trying to figure that one out.

    Good luck.

    Reply

    • @ABCD, thank you so much for your response. It really has helped to read about others’ regrets in order to restrain myself. The funny thing is if I knew my LO is not infatuated with me, my own obsession would disappear. I have been working with him for the past 5 years, but my limerence grew over the last year only because of his behaviour (mostly the texting, often late at night, mixing job and personal matters in a small group of co-workers). In my second LE, more than 10 years ago, I have consciously used ‘disclosure’ to end my limerence (did not know anything about terminology): my LO was my direct supervisor, he was quite aggressively flirting but nothing too open, and I assumed correctly that if I declared naively my feelings he would get scared and back up. I remember confessing my feelings in his office (room open) and his worried expression, he replied something like he does not have the same kind of feelings for me. I was insanely happy and free after that, although I cried for about an hour in the shower. Of course afterwards he continued with the flirting behavior, but I felt free. He was mad when I said that I would be leaving the country after graduation and then when we parted he kissed me on my lips (I did not kiss back), which means he had lied of course back then (I knew it, but his lie freed me). I could not do the same now, because my actual LO would probably react differently (the dynamic here is different) and I do not have the freedom to leave in a year or so. So, as you said, best thing is to stay professional even when he mixes his personal and even sexual life with his work all the time… and somehow convince my brain that he does not like me. The other aspect of this LE is that it affects my job – whenever he is around I am underperforming because I feel he looks up to me and I need to avoid that. My head is spinning already…

      Reply

      • Hi Meli-rant. Thanks for sharing. Limerence with work colleagues is very challenging, as I discovered. Whenever I saw her, I got triggered. It would have been a lot more challenging for me if she had not left (thank God she did). Now, even though we are connected on social media, the urge to check out their profile is pretty much gone now. I am sorry that this is affecting your work – same thing happened to me too. I prolonged my episode by continuing to interact with her in non work settings, that pushed me further in the rabbit hole.

        Have faith that you will get out of this eventually. I did, and life feels a lot better. We are rooting for you!

        Reply

      • Meli-rant,
        ” I remember confessing my feelings in his office (room open) and his worried expression, he replied something like he does not have the same kind of feelings for me. … Of course afterwards he continued with the flirting behavior, but I felt free. He was mad when I said that I would be leaving the country after graduation and then when we parted he kissed me on my lips (I did not kiss back), which means he had lied of course back then (I knew it, but his lie freed me). ”
        So this sounds similar to my LO’s behavior from my last big LE, though he did confess being interested early on (which I was thrilled to hear at the time, but I look at it a bit differently now). But if I pushed him a little, he would back away. I think he liked the chills and the thrills, the push-pull, the how-far-can-I-push-it aspect. But I don’t think he ever would have had an actual affair, and he was a known flirt in the company, so of course I wondered if there were other women out there he had these “things” with. I’ll never know how sincere his interest was in me, but it was a bit like Lucy and Charlie Brown with the football. After a while (an embarrassingly long time, I wasted soooo much time on that LE), I got tired of him yanking the ball away at the last minute. By the end of the LE, I was totally over it (and him).
        And I don’t think his behavior is that uncommon for married/partnered people, with the caveat that the workplace has gotten stricter over the years in terms of sexual harassment so that peoples’ behavior is more clamped down.

        Reply

        • Hi Marcia. I experienced a lot of hot/cold and push/pull behavior from LO as well, it used drive me nuts. Now, I simply do not care as much. Not caring has really helped me navigate interaction with her, so it looks like I am slowly but surely reaching a calm state. Best wishes.

        • “Not caring has really helped me navigate interaction with her, so it looks like I am slowly but surely reaching a calm state. ”

          That’s good. I’m not limerent for that particular LO anymore. But at the time, I took his behavior way too seriously.
          I’ve been looking at limerence differently in the last few weeks. I’m talking about the dark kind that gets obsessive because one or both people is unavailable. I think it’s a lot of escapism, even if there’s some mutual feeling there. I’m not sure it’s something anyone should take so seriously. Ok, you have a crush. It happens. Getting so obsessive (and I’ve certainly been guilty of it) seems really maladaptive.

      • I was actively pursued by my latest LO. But because we both have SO’s of many years, he’s pulled back, leaving me with the emotional fallout. He’s also in a position of authority over me at church, so I’m stuck wondering if I have the strength to go back to church. Mutual limerence isn’t all it’s imagined to be by limerents.

        Reply

  5. LIAMF to Meli-rant,

    I am in a good headspace for the moment so I won’t ruminate about my LO boss but you can find my comments on some of these articles (under Limerence-is-a-mindf*** or LIAMF).

    My situation is frustrating to say the least. Since the beginning of this LE, I have swung from euphoric highs to extremely depressive lows. I’ve never cried so much as I have these past six months. I had an LE 16 years ago that was nothing like this.

    We are both married but I’ve been struggling in my marriage since the first LE and we were only married two years at that time. Unsure if LO has any feelings for me since my limerent brain plays games on me. So I’ve perceived normal interactions as more than they really are. I’m also very proned to getting lost in his eye contact.

    My family history has addiction all through it. I never had substance abuse problems myself but I’m the only one from from my childhood household not to. Except I’m addicted to a person. Lol.

    Reply

    • From my former experiences, I found: division of household work, style of spending limited money, and quantity of honest/unafraid, curious/unassuming, empathetic/kind communication contribute MOST to a workable relationship or a likely breakup.

      (I almost laughed) when reading the BBC article: the first, big/shocking disappointment I got from both XSO (LO#4) and LO#5 was the dirty dishes piled in the sink for 1~3 days (not just a couple of hours), after I spent hours to cook delicious homemade meals. Not only the sites drew cockroaches in and made me feel nauseous, but the sight just triggered (realized much later) the poor/unsanitary living conditions in my childhood/youth, especially in the exile.

      Secondly, it’s how much open-mindedness and adaptability which both partners have. Stability or persistence is NOT stubbornness.

      If long-term couples get bored with each other, feeling sex is like “pounding two beef steaks”, perhaps they could enroll in a class TOGETHER, learning a foreign language or play a new music instruments, or something else fun but challenging, for shared hobbies.

      Reply

    • Here is the BBC article on limerence on this year’s Valentine’s Day!

      https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20260212-limerence-when-a-crush-becomes-obsessive

      The term “Limerence” is still a uncommon household word, it’s not dirty dishes or money wastes, but can be invisibly “dirtier” and more wasteful/harmful in committed partnership/marriage, leading the life of iSOs (and kids) in subtle dismays or obvious disasters (I was a victim as a kid).

      Reply

  7. Wow – the BBC article really misses the boat since it doesn’t address limerence as a common root cause of these harmful behaviors in a relationship. Yes, issues such as money and dirty dishes cause conflict, but those “fixable” differences of opinion are often used by the limerent spouse to justify why they should be with their LO. (iSOs can never measure up, and there is very little they can do to improve a marriage to someone who is in such an altered state of mind.)
    I suspect that the marriages that improve and last are the ones where the LE has dissipated somewhat and the limerent is able to stop behaving in an emotionally abusive manner.

    I do think it’s helpful to read this kind of pop-psychology nonsense to guage just how much more work there is to be done in the MC field, with the goal of preventing so much damage to children who are caught up in it all.

    Kudos to all limerents here who have worked hard to understand themselves and limit the destruction to their families.

    Reply

    • Let me tell a true story of iSO I know personally —

      You think Mother would learn her lesson after being punished/exiled for over 2.5 years? Nope. After returning to our hometown city, she got into another mutual LE with a father with a boy and girl (3~6 yrs younger than me, 10~11, with no knowledge of romance at all) and a devoted wife — a Western classical literature teacher to ballet dancers. Two families were neighbors in the same dorm (3rd & 2nd floor) and somehow got acquainted.

      I remember that LO’s son and me ignorantly accompanied (just once) Mother’s outing with his father, which looked like a family spending some leisure time (oddly on a weekday morning) in an empty park along the beautiful river far away from our dorms. We were playing close-by on the grass when they two gleefully chatted in a pavilion for 3~4 hours?

      Two years later, I ear-dropped Dad’s talk with his mother and heard the incomprehensible truth: the affair (mutual EA/PA?) was discovered (internally?) by iSO Dad and iSO teacher. They seemed unable to stop the LE couple, thus even discussed whether they could swap their spouse. But finally two iSOs decided not to do it. I don’t know how they forgave/tolerated each other and continued their life as if nothing ever happened.

      Fast forwarding… the two families remained in contact as loose “friends” (for years even after I came to the West). Back then, I often borrowed censored classical literature from the verbal, optimistic, energetic, warm iSO auntie (good looking in my eyes). I liked her much better than Mom who was always in irritated, impatient, or solemn moods.

      Then the elite, charming LO (trained for spy in Moscow) got a brain stroke and became partially paralyzed in lower extremity, face, a part of brain, and eating function. There wasn’t any nursing home to go for people like him back then. So iSO had to take care of him by herself. Then she began self-learning (in her 50s) how to water-color/oil paint. She repeated said that, without painting, she could not endure over 20 years of caregiving life for her husband, doing everything him while he could barely respond. When he finally died, everyone felt so relieved.

      Today, the iSO auntie and Mom/me still greet each other via SM during New Year holiday. She still sounds enthusiastic, optimistic, energetic with laughters. I so admire her personality, resilience and humanity!

      Do different cultures produce different iSOs? 🤔

      Reply

      • Correction: it was not just the two iSOs, but the two LOs and two iSOs sat down facing each other, discussing whether they should get divorced and swap the spouse. They somehow decided not to….

        Perhaps the two simultaneous disclosures on the same setting killed their LE? 😲

        Reply

      • A long while ago, I indirectly worked with a kind, brilliant Ivy League Prof. teaching legal literature and actively working as a lawyer (he offered to help me finalize my divorce paper). My direct boss told me that he and his smart-looking wife (another prof. in the same department) were a swap couple.

        Their respective xSOs run off probably in a mutual LE, and hurt two iSOs badly two decades before then; so they decided to get together. At the time, the couple (in their 40~50s with no children) looked happy to me. I bought a big bouquet to thank for his free, legal advice.

        There are so many lifestyles in my town… nothing is ever ODD!

        Reply

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