I’ve talked before about the loneliness of limerence. The isolation associated with limerence comes in large part from feeling that it shouldn’t be happening, and that it’s a shameful secret that the limerent has to carry around in silence. This is especially true if the limerent is in a committed relationship with someone else, but even unrequited limerence carries more than enough embarrassment and shame to keep most singletons feeling isolated and reluctant to seek support.
Unfortunately, the best strategy for reversing limerence – going No Contact – requires the limerent to embrace even more loneliness. That’s quite a hurdle. Even worse, the full implications of no contact take a while to set in, and tend to come at a time when limerents are most likely to be vulnerable to relapsing.
The commonest scenario for no contact is that it follows a precipitating crisis. Maybe a row with LO. Maybe a row with SO. Or maybe just some small disappointment, embarrassment or moment of lucidity that follows a long build up of limerence exhaustion, and finally pushes the limerent over the edge to taking action. Once no contact is established, things improve. It may be marginal at first – small improvements in mood, or a feeling of relief from a burden – but early on, no contact feels good. It feels like it’s working, and it is undeniably positive progress of which the limerent can be justifiably proud. But after a while, the initial boost of enthusiasm wanes, and the limerent is left back in the same situation they were in before no contact, but without LO being around. That’s when the loneliness begins to bite. And that’s when the risk of relapse is most perilous. Because if you reach out again, you are training your subconscious that you lack resolve and that all the fine principles that pushed you into no contact are actually renegotiable. You’re teaching yourself that you don’t honour your commitments to yourself. That’s not something to do carelessly.
So how can this be managed? Why is sustaining no contact so hard? What can you do to help yourself stick to the plan?
1) Loss of a friend
At the most obvious level, no contact meets a literal loss: the friend whose company you particularly enjoyed is now gone. Normally friendships peter out of their own accord: one of you moves to a new city, or you just slowly lose touch, and they become less and less a feature of your life. But in the case of no contact with an LO, it’s different. This is an active decision to excise a friendship. It may be even worse than that, because emotional intimacy is usually a key part of limerence – so you’re not just losing a friend, you are losing a confidante, a source of emotional support, maybe even the primary source of emotional fulfillment in your life.
One way to mitigate this problem is to avoid going cold turkey and instead use a “staged withdrawal” approach. Reduce contact a bit at a time, with the ultimate goal of no contact being some distance in the future. The idea is to try and simulate the normal petering out of friendship, rather than breaking the friendship abruptly. Another possible solution is to seek new friends, or try and deepen existing friendships, as a way of finding that same support with someone who doesn’t make you weak at the knees with craving. That’s also more honest, in many ways, as the “support” between limerents and LO can often be somewhat duplicitous, involving as it does a strong desire to impress and connect romantically to the person you’re supporting.
2) Loss of a mood enhancer
That last point also illuminates another issue: limerence is a spectacular natural high. There’s a reason why it becomes so addictive. As the limerence progresses, you lay down a program in your subconsious that connects being with LO and ruminating about LO, with reward. It feels good when you do it, so your brain prompts you to do more of it. Obviously, there comes a point where your “executive” – that part of your conscious mind that is actually assessing things more rationally – recognises that this is now a Bad Thing and you should stop doing it and protect yourself. But that dawning awareness doesn’t in itself reverse the old programming. It’s as though your child-like subconscious doesn’t understand why you have taken away this reward, and keeps trying to prompt you to give it back. You’ll need to fight that subconscious urge if you want to sustain no contact.
It’s hard to counter this. One of the reasons no contact is effective is that it prevents the continued reinforcement of the “LO = reward” connection in your mind. Deprogramming is possible, but this is the central addict’s dilemma: can you succeed even when your subconscious wants you to fail?
3) It’s a form of disenfranchised grief
The term “disenfranchised grief” was coined by Kenneth Doka. It relates to forms of loss that are not socially sanctioned, because they don’t fit into most people’s conception of “acceptable reasons to mourn”. Examples include the death of a pet, the death of an ex-spouse, the breakdown of an extramarital affair, or even grieving for a period that is considered too long by the average person. Ending a limerence connection would obviously fall in this category. Not many people will understand the pain you’re going through, and in the case of extramarital limerence, even fewer people will be sympathetic to your need to mourn. Often, of course, the limerents themselves agree: they don’t feel justified in the strength of their feelings of loss either, and wish they would go away. They know that it’s self-inflicted grief, due to their own poor choices.
This idea also links back to point one. The disenfranchised grief will be strong if you are mourning the loss of a friend or confidante that you were strongly emotionally bonded to. Now, obviously, if you are married, you shouldn’t have been doing that. You should have reserved that sort of bond for your spouse. You only have yourself to blame. Well, yes, but guess what? Many people don’t organise their lives as they should. Many people drift from the way things should be to the way things are in a series of small missteps that build up over years of trivial moments of carelessness. But if you want to solve the problem you will need to deal with the reality of the situation as it is now.
To get through no contact, you need to acknowledge the grief, and don’t try to gaslight yourself with minimisation or self-disenfranchisement. It is going to take time and pain to work through the loss. If you can afford it, it might be a good idea to seek a therapist, as someone impartial that you can openly express your true feelings to. One thing I would advise, though, is don’t try and force your spouse to acknowledge it – the disenfranchisement usually exists for a reason. It’s not a monstrous imposition on the limerent, it’s an unfortunate consequence of the circumstances that led to the limerence episode. A bit of humility is needed: you’re hurting, and that’s real, and should be addressed, but society isn’t in the wrong for not acknowledging your grief. You need to work to find ways that release it without causing further harm.
4) What else can be done?
Fundamentally, the issue with loneliness during no contact is loss. Any lasting remedy needs to address that, and focus on new sources of fulfillment and emotional nourishment as a positive goal. One way to frame this is to recognise that you also gain something extraordinary precious when going no contact: freedom. Freedom from a major source of anxiety and emotional instability. Freedom from the obsessive attention-capturing tyranny of limerence.
You can find ways to build something positive in the space that the freedom affords. Look on the experience of limerence as an opportunity to transform yourself. What did you learn about yourself as a consequence of going through this? What changes do you want to make in your life? Could you reconnect with your partner if you have one, or could you seek one if you don’t? A part of why no contact is such a comedown is that LO had offered something new, and the limerence experience revivified life. After no contact, you are confronted with a return to the old way of living. If that wasn’t fulfilling, then the prospect of losing the new and returning to the old is just depressing. There needs to be a change, a positive goal, a better future to look forward to. Use the limerence as a transformative experience. Life will never be the same again, but that’s OK if it’s better.
The loneliness and grief isn’t going to go away just by wishing, but acknowledging it and integrating it into a positive program of self-improvement is a way of making the best of a bad situation.
An excellent post which is uncannily well timed for me.
I’ve spent the whole day fighting the urge to contact (unblocking needs to be made a lot harder!) I just popped over to this site to remind myself of why I need to stay NC.
Thank you for helping to keep me on the right path.
You’re welcome Sophie.
There’s no doubt it’s hard. I’ve always found it ironic how many of the things that are required for good health take effort and involve (short-term) pain.
But the path leads to a good place.
“[D]on’t try and force your spouse to acknowledge it – the disenfranchisement usually exists for a reason.”
I’m finding this to be a delicate dance. Although my SO knows about my limerence, she is not particularly understanding about it. (This last year was my second LE in our 18 years of marriage.) For me, however, this was a pretty overwhelming episode because it was very tied up this time around with the loss and regret one typically experiences at mid-life. I’m discovering I have a lot of grieving to do—and not just because of the loss of LO. If my wife and I are going to get through this with a stronger marriage (which is our hope), I really need her support in this grief recovery process. Which means she has to separate empathy about mid-life issues from antipathy about my limerence. Not an easy thing to do. But I think she’s trying. Thank god we have a good therapist.
Yes, that’s an extra wrinkle for sure. If the limerence is actually triggered in part by an underlying issue (such as midlife anxieties) then it can end up contaminating a problem that your spouse could have otherwise been a great source of support for. Quite a knot to pick apart.
Your second LE and you want your wife to support your grief over ‘losing’ your LO? I really hope the therapist isn’t minimizing that your actions are a problem, rather than her reaction to them.
Midlife affects everyone who makes it that far. She may be suffering hot flashes, loss of fertility and many other challenges. I hope your emotional sensitivity extends to her issues, as well as your own.
Lee, my dear, you must have missed the post where I mentioned I was gay. So..no worries that my emotional sensitivity doesn’t extend to my wife’s issues: I’m the one suffering hot flashes, loss of fertility, regrets about not having had children, career angst, feelings of becoming less attractive, less physically able, wasted potential, and all of that oh-so-fun mid-life crap. (My wife went through it about 10 years ago.) Our therapist is all about “emotion-focused therapy”–not at all about judgment or criticism or punitive reactions. I just wish we’d had these insights 15 years ago. But better late than never. My wife and I are both finding the EFT approach very enlightening and useful and if it took my having this emotional affair (and confessing to it eventually a couple of months ago) to finally get us on this path, it was worth it. I’m hopeful for the first time in a long time that this marriage has a chance. An affair doesn’t have to spell the end of a relationship.
Yes, I missed it. No, it doesn’t but it’s the worst way in the world to test it. I doubt you would advise anyone to have an affair in order to improve their relationship. I wouldn’t anyway.
Smash a piece of porcelain and you might be able to repair it once, but it’s lost much of its value and it’s been broken. Having an affair breaks trust and is a violation. Even if one person never knows about it simply because lies need to be told.
I loathe Esther Perel and her ilk.
“Could you reconnect with your partner if you have one, or could you seek one if you don’t? ”
There are better questions:
1) Could you thrive without a partner
2) If you keep the current partner, or find a new one – what do you bring to the relationship?
Right on, DrL, right on.
I like this!
Thank you DrL for this compassionate post. ‘It’s an unfortunate consequence of the circumstances that led to the limerence episode.’ I debated with myself whether it was a monstrous imposition, a personal vulnerability, an unfortunate consequence, or all of the above that led to mine. After 8 months of no contact, I had to be in touch with this person again because he was my mother’s doctor, and my mother had a medical emergency. What followed after breaking the no contact was so painful and confusing, I ended up filing a formal complaint about this doctor and also taking legal action. I believed he was entirely in the wrong in crossing professional boundary but I must admit I was vulnerable and had encouraged him. The situation worsened when it became clear he was grossly negligent in treating my mother. So I decided to stop but he wanted to continue this emotional entanglement. Long story short, I think I have done the right thing for my mother and myself by changing her doctor and taking the right protective measures, but I still suffer from the occasional feelings of loss, guilt, betrayal.
Hi Mrs A,
That sounds awful. I’m sure you’ve done the right thing for your mother (and you) in getting away from this person and finding better care.
Even if there was some notional “grey area” in your interactions, it is wildly unprofessional to be pursuing the daughter of a patient during a period of treatment. Good on you for filing a complaint.
As to your own feelings of loss: they do just have to be weathered, unfortunately. But hopefully moderated somewhat by knowing you did the right thing for yourself and your mother.
Yes, and the right thing for my marriage. The feelings of loss are also mixed with anger, and ultimately, grief. But I am really glad my limerence is over. It is time for healing. I got to know my limerence-prone self better. Thank you for all your thoughtful posts.
I hope he didn’t do her irreparable harm and the medical licensing board doesn’t do what they do too often – blow off the complainant. Is filing a criminal complaint necessary too?
Despite having to deal with the limerence problem, again, you were able to protect your mother from further harm. I’m so sorry.
Thank you, Lee. My complaint was focussed on the medical issues, but it seems they take the part of his professional misconduct very seriously, if not more. It is all still in process but I feel protection is in place.
I’m so glad they are taking it seriously. Is your mom on the mend now too – or at least not getting any worse? Hugs to you.
I really need to read this today. Today and last few days have been hard. All my
Mind has been preoccupied with has been the LO. Yet, I know that’s silly and for so many reasons I need to let go. I am married and was with my spouse when I met LO. I NEVER expected the feelings that came from meeting her. It happened so unassumingly overtime but once the feelings hit, boy did they hit. I haven’t seen her in over a year* I probably
Never will. She’s no longer in the area yet she’s on my mind. I hate admitting this but since you all can understand, sometimes I secretly wish she thought of me. I replay our encounters over and over and over again in my head. In a weird and dysfunctional way I find solace for a second in them. The truth is, she was attracted to me but timing is why we could never work out. We’re both married and we both knew it. Part of me is kind to myself because I know I’m doing the best I can. The other part feels like I’m being selfish. I have an amazing spouse d I’ve made it my goal to focus on him, look inward towards what we’ve got. I know without a doubt I’ve never want to be with anyone else. He is incredible. Has a great sense of humor. I love him and would want to hurt him. I even told myself if LO came and wanted me, I’d still
Object.
Question: I know I’ve relapsed. A few days ago it was fine and then boom. Is it OK for someone relapsing to enjoy a fantasy in their head ? Sometimes I enjoy the fantasy that will never be. LO and I meeting pre spouses and being intimate. The fantasy ends when we end things and we meet our current spouses and our lives the way they are resume. I guess for me what hurts it’s that in my head it feels tangible yet I know it will never be but the feelings are so prevalent. I mourn. I miss her. I miss her face. I think for me it’s strong because I’ve always wanted to be with a woman and the fact that she found me attractive as well yet we couldn’t be together made it really hard and so twisted. I’m glad we respected our spouses though. I never realized I was attracted to them until a few years ago it’s a fluidity of sorts.
There’s two answers to this I think, Moanna. First: yes, it’s fine. The only person being hurt by it is you, and it won’t directly harm your SO or LO in any tangible way. The second answer is: yes, it’s fine, but it will slow down your recovery, may reignite the limerence, and should only be an emergency coping strategy that you use as temporary mood relief.
So, basically, be kind to yourself. Don’t beat yourself up over replapses (everyone has them), but do learn from them (e.g. what’s going on with me at the moment that might have made me vulnerable?), and recommit to recovery.
Re. fluidity of sexual attraction – again, be kind to yourself. It may be that you need to pay attention to what your subconscious is trying to tell you, and if you become recurrently limerent for women it may be worth doing more work to figure out what is going on. But, the simple fact is that when we choose to commit to one person, we’re going to have to manage limerence for anyone else, regardless of gender.
Thank you. Dr. L. You are right. Regardless of gender. Managing limerence is what matters.
Some days are easier than others but there are a lot of positives in my life right now so I try and focus on them-the brightest one is my child. Sometimes this whole limerence thing feels like a nightmare I wish I could wake up from. Sigh.
But overall I’ve had better days than not, so I’m glad for this. I’ve also bonded more closely with my husband
……It wasn’t like this a few months /year ago back when I was really into the deep of limerence. So it’s refreshing. Thank you.
excellent, perceptive article dr l – and so true! (as a limerent i mean) – tough, harrowing mental battle before and then after n c..
Great and timely post as always Dr L, it’s very much where I am in my NC period. The momentum I had early on kept me going for the first 3 months and I felt in a much better place mentally. With LO being an ex-coworker there are various people she’s in contact with that I deal with every day. I’ve pretty much avoided even mentioning her name in the office, but after 3 months felt ready to, and I had a discussion about her with someone who told me that LO wanted to contact me. I felt bad and sent a friendly text a couple of weeks ago… she then unceremoniously shoved it back in my face with her reply!!
I’ve been trying to think about what I was hoping to achieve with the text. Make myself feel less guilty about it all I guess. Anyway in a weird way it worked because she made it clear she’d moved on so I have nothing to feel guilty about. What I did get was a bruised ego for sure, but also some more fuel to propel me into the next bout of NC.
While I wait for time to do its thing, I’m continuing to work on myself physically and mentally – gym and therapy – and spending more quality time with the family. Living purposefully.
I’m at the point of contemplating the benefits of NC, or at least the phasing our approach. LO and I have parted ways professionally (for the time being at least) which helps… But I would miss the friendship a lot, and maybe LO would but I really can’t tell what they feel vs my own line rent projections. I’m not brave enough or strong enough for that tough patch yet but I hope I will be. Every time I communicate with LO I agonise over it, I feel like maybe I said the wrong thing, or too much, and I’ll get a negative (or no) response. But then the prospect of that almost gives me relief! However, that point hasn’t as yet materialised despite my anxiety. How do you take that leap if you’re already at the edge and struggling? Although I can see it would help longer term, the thought of the backlash and how I would (wouldn’t) cope frightens me. In the meantime, im redoubling focus on therapy, family and practical stuff.
Yes so very true, but to all of you battling, keep going it does get easier. I’m I’m 6 months NC (appat from one short text conversation 4 months ago). I still think of LO everyday but not so persistently and the pain any loneliness is getting better. The urge to contact is minimal as I know it will serve no purpose and will intimately be severely damaging to take a back step. It really does get easier. Keeping ultra busy and surround yourself in friends and family, time alone is a killer. I am looking at applying for a new job to progress my career, which I would never have been able to do 6 months ago. Keep going everyone J x
So true. Amen!
So needed this today Dr L. No contact with someone who lives only a few doors down is a constant reminder of them which is prolonging the limerence. This is probably the single most hardest thing I have gone through and now I’m coming out the other end I feel very worried for my mental health. This is been insane and I feel like I’m getting over someone dumping me ever though there was never any relationship it was all in my own messed up head. Frightening really…
Thanks Dr L. X
This comes at an uncannily perfect time for me, because I’ve been experiencing a lot of loneliness and grief over the loss of my friendship with LO and our larger, mutual friend group, and I’m really torn over what to do. Sorry for the novel that’s about to commence. I’ve never posted here before.
I’m currently in my first limerent experience, and LO is a close friend and a coworker, and they reciprocate my feelings. I became aware of my limerence 6 months ago when LO disclosed to me that they were in love with me, and that pretty much crystallized things for me. (For months prior I’d been denying/rationalizing my feelings and had determined to NEVER disclose to anyone bc I figured it would eventually go away on its own.) Knowing that LO reciprocated was too much for me, and I feared we would enter into a full-on affair if we maintained secrecy. We agreed to disclose to our respective SOs what was then basically an emotional affair … and also asked them if we could open our marriages. (God, typing everything out like that sure makes it sound horrible).
Unsurprisingly, it blew up spectacularly, and in service of preserving my marriage, I’ve been 95% NC since November—basically as NC as I can be when you work together. Luckily, I finally got a new job and am leaving in a week.
The disclosure to our SOs completely upturned our social circle. We were three couples who hung out together as a group regularly, and I don’t say lightly that the dissolution of that group has felt like losing my family. I still occasionally see individuals, including my LO’s spouse, who says she forgives me and wants me in her life. She also misses our shared group camaraderie and wants us all to be friends again.
My spouse feels differently. He still feels acute betrayal from his friend (my LO). They actually sat down face to face a few months ago (at LO’s request) and got as far as admitting that they could be civil to one another in public. LO says he’s sorry and wants to make amends and try being friends again. My SO will only say, “I don’t know,” when asked if he misses our group.
On the one hand, I am heartbroken over the loss of this group and I want to believe that there’s a bright future somewhere ahead where we are a family again and no one is limerent for anyone they shouldn’t be. I know it will take work to get there, and deferring to my SO, and respecting boundaries (which I do feel I’ve done a pretty good job of maintaining). On the other hand, I am still incredibly unsettled by LO’s presence. In the wake of each interaction we have, I feel as though all my efforts to abate my limerance are undone. I am angry with him for disclosing his feelings to me, because knowing he reciprocated was a massive catalyst for the intensity of my current limerent experience. When I bring this up, he tells me that disclosing to me was no different from my flirting with him. I vehemently disagree, but maybe I’m not looking at this clearly. I’ve tried to be really honest with myself about my feelings and behavior, both leading up to disclosure and in its fallout. I don’t know how compassionate I can or should be toward my LO when he’s still saying things to me like, “You make me feel like nobody else ever has.” etc etc. It feels great/it feels awful.
I think I know what I have to do, and that’s go full NC with LO and the friend group. It just makes me so sad.
” I don’t know how compassionate I can or should be toward my LO when he’s still saying things to me like, “You make me feel like nobody else ever has.” etc etc. It feels great/it feels awful.”
Have you disclosed to your SO that he’s still saying that? If not, that’s a pretty big thing to hide. It’s not a question of when trouble will come around again, it’s when.
This is why God invented therapists. Have you considered seeing one? My recommendation would be to do a few sessions on your own before bringing your husband in. A good therapist can be worth their weight in gold. However, few of them understand limerence.
As long as your LO feels that way, at least is willing to express that sentiment to you, he’s a threat. You can’t walk this line.
Imagine a line. Your SO is on one side and your LO is on the other. It’s like you’re trying to negotiate some kind of deal to keep the LE going. Maintaining the social circle can provide a nice cover for keeping the LE alive but that’s no longer your bus to drive. You need to get on one side of that line. If your marriage is important to you, you get on that side of the line and you deal with this as a team. Your SO has the privilege of deciding how much of what he’s going to accept.
Time to play a game. If you could craft your “fairy tale ending,” what would it be? If it’s an open marriage, it’s an open marriage. Everybody in this is entitled to their vision of happiness. Their vision may not coincide with yours.
Once you have the vision of your “Fairy Tale Ending,” you start asking questions: What would have to happen to achieve it? What are the odds of that happening? How am I going to pull it off? What are the consequences if it doesn’t work out? Am I willing to accept those consequences and take the shot? If not, what am I going to do about it? It can be quite a game. When I played it with LO #4, I couldn’t come up with “fairy tale ending.” I also was playing it with a therapist. She assigned it as kind of a homework assignment. The last question was, “Is this what I really want?”
Once your situation is stable, you can work on what got you there. One problem at a time.
“As long as your LO feels that way, at least is willing to express that sentiment to you, he’s a threat. You can’t walk this line.”
Thank you for this. I do tell my SO what LO says and have shown him the emails LO has sent me. And in fact, when I got home last night, I told my SO that I am abandoning my hope of our friend group reconciling because I can’t have LO in my life. Once I said the words I felt a huge relief.
It’s funny that you mention ‘fairy tale endings,’ because I did see a therapist when LO originally disclosed to me, and my therapist asked me to craft my fairy tale ending, which is how I ended up with the idea of an open relationship in the first place. When I disclosed to SO and asked about the open relationship, he very firmly said no, and I made my choice to stay in my marriage. I don’t think it’s a choice I will regret. I think I would have regretted leaving for LO.
Did you and the therapist explore what led you to the open marriage as your “fairy tale ending?”
Eva,
I say, Good on you! for taking the chance to ask for what you wanted from your spouse. Open relationships are difficult and not everyone can handle it. (You may not have been able to, either, once you got into it, who knows?) You allowed yourself to be vulnerable by talking about your feelings and that’s a good thing. Disclosure to your spouse should build trust. If he can’t handle your thoughts, can’t forget it, it may say more about him than about you.
That said, your LO is definitely not helping matters and if you want to stay in your marriage, it’s probably going to have to be NC with LO. And yes, that will be terribly sad, but you can get through it.
Hi Eva,
I’ll add my voice to the chorus saying that your LO is behaving disrespectfully. To have gone through this process of disclosure to your spouses and still be pushing hard at your boundaries shows his intentions. He wants to indulge his limerent fantasies and other people be damned.
In terms of your wider friendship group, I think it’s quite likely that’s broken beyond repair too. The “open marriage” gambit probably seemed like a good idea in the thick of limerence (which shows how terrible our judgment is at that kind of moment!), but it’s not something that your spouses will easily forget.
Even if you could recover the semblance of the old friendships, it will always be a tense, nervy and fragile agreement. Just too much scope for the emotions to blow up again. And with an actively enabling LO it’s going to be a continual battle of wills for you.
Apologies for the negativity – I’m normally pretty upbeat and “purposeful living” about things, but in this case I think a better future is likely to be found well away from this tangle of thorns!
Wishing you all the best,
Dr L
Eva, no apology necessary for the long post. What you posted here benefits many of us, even if the scenario is not quite the same as we experience, so thank you. Many of us have poured out our feelings throughout this site, and benefit from both writing and reading posts.
“…he tells me that disclosing to me was no different from my flirting with him. I vehemently disagree, but maybe I’m not looking at this clearly. I’ve tried to be really honest with myself about my feelings and behavior, both leading up to disclosure and in its fallout. ”
I am assuming you had flirted with each other and could feel a special connection prior to the disclosure, but you simply did not have undeniable proof of his feelings. His disclosure cemented everything though, and there is no going back to how it was before. Only you know how much you played a role in the disclosure.
I felt a strong connection to my LO (good friend) before she was my LO, but my triggering event was her leaving my company, leaving me wondering how I would stay in contact. Everything would have been “fine” had she never left. (The truth is, I would have had to deal with my emotions eventually). Her disclosure one month later actually felt great because I had been embroiled in heart-wrenching limerence. Prior to disclosure, I knew we had a different connection but I had to know how she felt as this uncertainty had turned me into an emotional mess. I was getting so many signals from her that I needed validation that I wasn’t losing my mind. I definitely played some role in her disclosure because I ultimately felt compelled to get this information out of her. Disclosure was going to happen.
I am so sorry to hear of your social loss on top of the painful limerence. Don’t beat yourself up over any interaction you have over the next week. Good luck with No Contact. I agree it is all so damn sad.
I hope you and your husband have invested in security cameras at your home. Change the locks too.
If he continues to send you unwanted, unsolicited non-work related emails during his working hours and/or from his work email – let them know. I’m hoping it’s not his company but one large enough to have the resources to crack down on this guy for time theft, if necessary.
Block his email addresses, phone numbers, social media accounts. Anything to make it clear that he is no longer a part of your life.
“I don’t know how compassionate I can or should be toward my LO when he’s still saying things to me like, “You make me feel like nobody else ever has.” etc etc. It feels great/it feels awful.”
That is incredibly disrespectful of him. To you, to your spouse (his former friend), to his spouse. Knowing that he’s stomping over your boundaries because HIS feelings trump YOURS, your husband’s, his wife’s – does that help smother the embers?
How do you stop it? By not feeding it. If he starts down a personal line of discussion – stop him. “No. I don’t wish to hear it. I’m not interested.” Then go to the bathroom or something. Presumably he won’t follow you into the bathroom!
The time to discuss an open marriage is long before either party has someone lined up or someone in particular they wish to pursue. Very often they are far more work than simply sticking to the original vow of “forsaking all others”. You think it’s hard to communicate with one partner? Try more than one. Talk about practicing 100% honesty and open communication. In the long run, a therapist is a lot less expensive and at least they don’t come with the real risk of STI’s and DNA tests if a pregnancy results.
“That is incredibly disrespectful of him. To you, to your spouse (his former friend), to his spouse. Knowing that he’s stomping over your boundaries because HIS feelings trump YOURS, your husband’s, his wife’s”
I am realizing that boundaries matter very little to him, and that it will be up to me to maintain that distance. Thank you for the dose of reality and the support. It helps to hear it from a third party.
I recommend you think of him as an invading army. You want a moat, drawbridge, murder holes, crenallations, arrow slits, bubbling pitch. Spare no expense!
He is so unkind. Can you imagine what he has put his wife through, time and again through the years? You’re so lucky to been made aware of his nature before things got completely out of hand.
Good luck going forward. I hope thing improve substantially.
I’m currently embarking on my second attempt at NC and have a couple of weeks away from LO to help me on my way. After trying various things I’m pretty sure NC is the only way for me to go. I’m already feeling a bit low, after only one day, but will focus on the prospect of freedom and regaining my mind (if I have any sanity left). My last attempt at NC was great in the short term but I was so easily drawn back in. More resolve required this time and some positive non-LO goals to keep me occupied. Thanks for another very useful post Dr L.
Just today, for some reason, I decided not to look at LO at all.
It may or may not have been good for my journey, but I know it felt as if I were the only person in the world; I didn’t feel like friends were friends. I didn’t feel like I had any contact to the world. All I could think of was her and that impacted my concentration.
I sit here now, depressed and unable to crack a smile, wondering what to do about this huge burden that I know I’ll have to live with and just cope with.
I only say this here because it has been a terrible day due to what I did (or rather, didn’t do), and I need to lift a weight off of my shoulders for a bit.
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Side note; ‘Old Wife”s name on the home page’s ‘recent comments’ widget is hyperlinked to the site home page. Just thought I should point that out, in case Dr. L. wanted to fix it…
This post is particularly pertinent to me today. LO is bound up with grief and loss. We bonded over the death of our spouses, then he gradually faded away leaving me bereft. Today was a tough anniversary of my husband and I felt very sad. I have managed NC re LO for 18 months – last text contact 10 months ago. And then today of all days I met him by chance. He was lovely as ever. I know there’s no future and no point in following up. I’ll go NC again. But it’s torn open the scar and I feel destroyed right now. Tomorrow is another day. I read something elsewhere that helps me a lot: You don’t quit someone because you don’t love them anymore, you quit because you know this doesn’t end well and you love yourself.
Yes, I think that’s definitely the right way of looking at it. You go NC because it’s healthier for you; whatever false pleasure or reward they might offer isn’t worth the cost.
Sorry you’re having a hard day DittoDitto. Hope things get better soon.
I’m married and my LO of over 11 months is single. I have reason to believe he has been going through a divorce this whole time but is not telling anyone about it. He presents himself socially as simply a single guy. I wonder what I am to him. Maybe a stopgap, a ‘safe’ (for him) way of confirming his attractiveness without really getting involved. In my head I’ve always known that if he wants to be in a real romantic relationship or partnership in the future, it (obviously!) makes sense for him to date other single people, fall in love with them, have relationships, etc. Obviously he deserves to be with someone who is available if he wants to be with anyone at all. And I’ve known all along, in my head, that — obviously! — any emotional attachment I have to him beyond friendship must end badly for me when he starts seeing other single people. But, oh, my heart went recklessly on, logic and reason be damned. Fast forward to yesterday and today: I see it happening. I see that he has met and connected with a nice, apparently single (maybe also recently divorced, so they would have that in common) woman who is compatible with him in so many ways. I was talking with the two of them today and I can see they are hitting it off. So, good for them, right? If I were truly his friend, and only that, I’d be very happy for him. And so far as I am a real friend, I am happy for him. In principle. In my head. But in my heart, it hurts it hurts it hurts, it hurts so much I’m beside myself with loss and heartbreak. Damn it, and I knew this would happen sooner or later. I also know that it is really I who broke my own heart by allowing my feelings to go as far as they did. And yeah, that semi-flirtation I was doing with him to the point of addicting myself to his presence and attention, that’s entirely my responsibility too. But, at this moment, it brings me little if any consolation to understand that the responsibility for managing my emotional well-being lies with me. Now, it seems, I just need to go ahead and let myself feel the grief fully. In due course, I suppose I can reframe this change in circumstance as a spur to getting on with my own life, and a way to strengthen my resolve to reduce contact with LO. But my God it hurts. I feel crazy with pain. Even though I’ve disclosed my limerence to SO generally, which has been helpful, I don’t want to burden him and embarrass myself by disclosing this particular pain to him right now. At some point I may confide in a close female friend who knows about my situation. I think my therapist might dismiss it. So at the moment this blog is my only real outlet. Oh, it hurts. And I feel more than a little ashamed and humiliated. And kind of angry with myself but self-forgiving and self-compassionate too. I just have to accept that this is what happened, acknowledge my part in it, and press on with my own goals and purposes in life. Somehow. Thank you for being here.
“And yeah, that semi-flirtation I was doing with him to the point of addicting myself to his presence and attention, that’s entirely my responsibility too.”
I think this is what how things evolved with my LO over a long period of time. We were both married, so what could possibly go wrong?
“If I were truly his friend, and only that, I’d be very happy for him. And so far as I am a real friend, I am happy for him. In principle. In my head. But in my heart, it hurts it hurts it hurts, it hurts so much I’m beside myself with loss and heartbreak. Damn it, and I knew this would happen sooner or later.”
I have had these same thoughts about how I should act if I were truly LOs friend. I am her friend, but at what cost? And what do I REALLY want for LO? She wants me in her life, but obviously the consequences of that are more painful for me. Midlifer, I wish you good luck, and that you consider how to go No Contact with him.
This blog is my only outlet as well. The number of different emotions that are involved at the same time is a paradox to me. I can witness myself go through them but also be powerless to stop them.
Many thanks to you, Thinker, for your support, insights, and kind wishes. I still have a hard time fully comprehending what has happened even almost a year later. You make a good point about the many emotions and how they seem to impose themselves without mercy or susceptibility to our direct control. It is quite a task to exert control over one’s actions in an effort to influence indirectly, gradually, the sources of those emotions. I just have to get used to being in pain for however long it takes. Even though it is happening mostly in my mind, it feels of the same magnitude as a major life event like a divorce, which I experienced about 24 years ago, and the death of a parent, which I experienced about 16 years ago. Unforgettable feelings and here they are again. I wish you well and hope you will be able to make the choices that are best for you. It occurs to me that if LO had not approached me on May 20, 2018 for a seemingly friend-like walk home from church, I wouldn’t have gone through any of the rest of this. And I want to do my best to fight back against the sense that his choice that day made such a difference. I want to make a consistent set of choices over time from now on that will lead me to be in a better place.
Midlifer – I’m about 6 months ahead of you, and I can tell you it gets easier, especially with No Contact. After about 18m of me and LO getting progressively closer, and my LE getting deeper, I found out she got a boyfriend. I was so crushed, partly I guess because despite all logic to the contrary I wanted her for myself, and partly because she hadn’t told me (and I was the last to know in our world it then transpired). These feelings of despair were despite me having already decided to go NC to fight this.
Now whilst I wouldn’t want to go through it again, the pain was useful. It was a massive wake-up call for me – it helped to pop the fantasy bubble I was still largely operating in. It made me look closer at what this was, and gave me the resolve I needed to go NC. She’d moved on, I needed to as well.
6 months later I’m in a much better place, even with a little wobble a couple of months ago. She’s not forgotten by a long shot, but the intensity has gone, I’m over the pain, me and SO are in a much better place. I was probably sleepwalking into an affair, divorce who knows what. I’ve now woken up, had a lucky escape really, and can use this as a place to grow.
I hope that provides some comfort, but i would encourage NC. Out of sight, out of mind.
Midlifer,
Have you read DrL’s blog on “Jealousy?”
It’s pretty common to feel bummed when your LO moves on. If you haven’t disclosed, it’s like a switch flips and you want to scream “Yo! Can’t you see this invisible Jumbotron over my head?! How can you possibly be so clueless as to not know how I’m feeling? ! Whether you know it or not, we’re in this together. I don’t know who’s the bigger idiot, me for feeling this way or you for not seeing it.” …Not that I ever felt like that until I did eventually disclose, which brought on a whole different set of issues.
When LO #4 told me she’d met someone she was interested in, I was bummed. I wasn’t jealous of him but I envied him. I was flat out jealous of LO #1’s BF. Why the difference?
In “The Definition of Limerence,” DrL has a flowchart that shows different progression paths of limerence. In looking at the flowchart, why I was jealous in one case but envious in the other makes sense. I was available and in the game with LO #1. Her BF was a direct obstacle between me and her. With LO #4, I was never in the game. I was on the red path in that LE. The guy she was interested in wasn’t between me and her. When it came to obstacles, a potential rival wasn’t on the list. I envied him because if he had what she liked, I thought I wanted to have those qualities, too.
Assuming your LO is operating in good faith, it takes awhile to come to the conclusion that, as complicit as they may be, you’re in a game that likely only one of you is playing. If your LO isn’t operating in good faith, it’s a whole different ballgame. Those people are predators.
Thank you, Scharnhorst. I’ll think about all this. I’ve just written out the logic again, to help me remember:
‘Look. The reason I can’t have him is that I’m not available, and I’m choosing not to become available, and I’m choosing not to have an affair. Ergo, truly pursuing him would be madness.’
Now this means when I see LO naturally enjoying the company of other women, one main feeling that comes up is momentary frustration, arising from the knowledge that I’ve chosen to tie my own hands and not even really put myself out there to explore a real relationship with him. So of course others will explore that instead of me. My non-logical limerent self is silently (and ungrammatically) wailing, ‘Oh, no, that could have been me, should have been me, why can’t it be me?’ while my all-things-considered self, the very source of the choice to tie my own hands and hold back from LO, tries to go over the logic once more, as would a patient teacher with a struggling student. How to bypass, or dissolve the occasion for, this painful struggle? Cue ‘purposeful living’. Here’s what I wrote out for myself next:
‘Of course he’ll take an interest in other people. Lots of them. I just have to let him go once and for all. Not over and over from scratch every time I see him liking someone else — again, madness, self-torture.
This means there is something of my self that I somehow need to let go or move on from. Because the longing and the yearning, beyond simple attraction that should be manageable, all that extra stuff is really about me and my own needs for growth and development. So I ought to work out how to assume responsibility for fulfilling those needs of mine through choices that are under my control, without fixating on (which means being hostage to the not-under-my-control choices of) someone else. And I ought to work on having my real and realistic regard for him, whatever that looks like (even if it looks like walking away), be unconditional, not driven by any neediness of mine.’
Easier to say than to do. But I can imagine how a pathway opens up from here leading toward real joy and fulfillment from sources that are, by contrast with LO and his behavior , as much subject to my own choices as anything can be. And that helps ease the pain.
Anybody out there remember “Fantasy Island?” I used to like that show. If there was one, I could see this:
[People getting off plane]
Tattoo: “Who’s that, boss?”
Mr. Rourke: “That’s Scharnhorst, Tattoo.”
Tattoo: “Is he unhappy, boss?”
Mr. Rourke: “Quite the contrary, Tattoo. He’s quite satisfied with his life but he has a lot of “what if?” questions. “What if?” he’d said something or not said something or someone else had given a different response to something he asked or said.”
Tattoo: “What would he do with that information if he has it, boss? There are some questions you’re better off not knowing the answers to.”
Mr. Rourke: “Quite true, Tattoo. But, we’re not responsible for what he’ll do with it. [brief silence] We’re going to make a fortune off him.”
“Welcome to Fantasy Island!”
Thank you, Vincent, for sharing your story. I can relate. ‘Despite all logic to the contrary’ indeed. I guess the pain is the main avenue through which the limerent brain makes contact with the reality that one cannot in fact have the LO, so at least the pain is helpful that way in the long run. Hearing about your experience does bring me comfort and some ideas for what I can do better. I’m really glad that you’re doing better yourself!
As I read through these comments, and work through my own NC grief….I wonder if we put all the pain on one side of a scale, and all the LE pleasure on the other…which side would be heaviest? I am sure the variables would be the length of the LE and the amount of activities one did with the LO, but based on the agony of recovery….I am pretty sure the scale would always tip to pain. Contemplating on that will surely help me not to go down the limerent rabbit hole in the future.
Yeah, that’s a useful way of looking at it. A cost/benefit analysis. As you say, the cost can be very high for the “benefit” of a fantasy.
The challenge is resisting the dopamine high – and that’s a lot easier if you don’t even start down the rabbit hole…
Reading this post again and again , it is helping me so much Dr L!! Thank you!
We had NC for 2.5years and after reconnecting for nearly a year ive decided/we have decided to go nc again … its harder this time because we got to know each other better, got attached to him and have so many memories to think about again and again… i find that my brain works in “waves”, i have episodes when i crave him terribly i become extremely sad and also have an urge to see him and speak to him. And then my brain naturally calms down and i move on ? If t get busy it also helps to reduce the wave until it disappears and until the next wave.. does it make sense? Its very hard but im determined to have no waves anymore… question does limerence last for life? I mean will i ever forget my LO? All together we have known each other for 4 years and even during 2.5yrs of NC he was constantly in my thoughts 🙁
It makes total sense to me Sara – afraid I’ve no advice other than keep busy as you mentioned already!
2.5 years NC is a great achievement. Well-done! Am sure you can manage it again.
Thank u.. it was but then we had a lunch together and limerence started again!! !! He stopped nc to tell me he got engaged!! Dont understand why? We never disclosed our feelings so i guess i wont find out. Im going nc again after 11months as hes getting married next month it makes me feel so down and rejected. I just need to keep going but how do people cope with the sadness
I’m so sorry you’re going through this pain, Sara. I hope it will get better…it seems like the experience of many people who post here is that eventually if you focus on taking good care of yourself, you can heal. One book I’ve found useful for alleviating the pain of loss, heartbreak, and feeling rejected is ‘Emotional First Aid’ by Guy Winch.
Sara, it’s the “waves” that annoy me most. I was obsessing over LO for 18 months (pretty much 24hrs x 7 days, non stop) and the last 4 months I swing from feeling “normal” when I talk to him (yesterday) to feeling an incredible urge to see and talk to him. Usually when I feel normal I get smug and pat myself on my back for not going to pieces in his presence, then 1 hr later after I’ve driven away the obsession starts again. I’ve tried NC but we keep bumping into each other at random places, and no it’s not “accidental on purpose random”. I think the “limerence Gods” are toying with me.
Not easy good luck as well!! Still no contact today everyday is a win! My husband keeps on asking me you look so sad whats happening to you …
How come you bump into each other? Same company? Neighbourhood? We dont work far so im always a bit nervous when i go out