Following on from musings about midlife, one of the commonest problems that more mature limerents face is falling for a new LO when committed to someone else. This is hard enough to deal with in a simple monogamous relationship, but when commitment has led you to marriage and children and joint assets and lives intertwined like the Gordian knot, it can be especially challenging.
So, what should you do if you are married but limerent for someone else? The answer to this question depends a lot on the nature of your marriage, and also on your personal “limerence profile”, and what you want from life. In the manner beloved of therapists everywhere, I plan to answer this key question by asking questions.
1) Do you become limerent very readily?
If so, you probably have experience by now of multiple rides on the limerent-while-married merry-go-round. Managing this is similar to the challenge faced by high-libido folks in a world full of gorgeous people – find coping strategies to manage your urges in a way that doesn’t wreak destruction on the people around you (and yourself). If your goal is to have a stable, loving relationship with your spouse, then you need to accept that you must have a plan for how to interact with potential LOs that limits the risk of escalating attraction. Common strategies would be avoiding contact, avoiding discussion of emotionally-charged topics, and adopting a guarded, defensive mindset when interacting with that person. This is likely to make your company fairly flat (or even difficult) for LO – which is a good thing for you as they are less likely to dazzle you up. If this is an unbearable prospect, then you may have to reconsider whether you are able to lead a monogamous life. If you are not, please discuss this with your spouse before unilaterally embarking on a post-monogamy lifestyle.
If you are an infrequent limerent, and have had few LOs in your life, then there is a greater risk that the re-emergence of limerence will knock you for six emotionally. The specialness of the experience, and the specialness of LO, can seem much more dramatic by virtue of its rarity. Particular care is needed in these cases to maintain clarity of thought when making big decisions about your future.
2) Were you limerent for your spouse?
One mechanism for orientating yourself during the maelstrom of limerence is to think back to how you felt about your spouse in the Early Days. Were you limerent for them? If so, then you can reassure yourself that you picked a brilliant sparkly true-love match, and that now you have simply moved into a more mature phase of affectional bonding. There are lots of amazing people in the world. Many of them are potential LOs. If your spouse was one, then you know what the progression of love is like: dizzying limerence leading to pair bonding, but fading with time and familiarity. That pattern is likely to repeat if you start a new dizzying limerence affair with LO of the moment. So, you will be sacrificing your current marriage (kids, financial stability) for going back to square one and starting over. While older.
If, in contrast, you weren’t limerent for your spouse, then there’s no two ways about it: in terms of glamour they are going to suffer by comparison to LO. Now, depending on your individual circumstances, this may be a good thing. If you are one of those unfortunate souls that become limerent for narcissists or other personality-disordered types it is a Good Thing to bond with someone less glamorous but emotionally stable and giving. People are complicated, though, and there are a lot of strange chains of events that lead people to marry for reasons other than love or limerence. Then, the glamour of LO can make you feel that this is your chance to really experience blissful union. Perhaps the best way to determine how to proceed is to ask the big question…
3) How was your marriage before the limerence began?
Honest appraisal time. Can you determine cause and effect? Have you become limerent for someone else because you were unhappy in your marriage, or have you become unhappy in your marriage because you have become limerent for someone else? A guiding principle in answering this question is that when you are limerent YOUR JUDGEMENT IS IMPAIRED (sorry for shouting). Seriously, your brain is currently awash with a cocktail of hormones and neurotransmitters that evolved to try and compel you to bond with a mate. The demands and responsibilities of adult human life transcend this (or should). You need to compensate for the strength of your feelings with reason. Emotions have a much greater impact on decision making than most people think. You need to be as objective as you can in assessing the true emotional context of your relationship before the new centre of gravity skewed your orbit.
Were you happy? Did you and your spouse have healthy mutual respect and love? Did you support each other – and was there reciprocation of care and consideration? Now, most relationships fall short of these ideals from time to time, but the foundation of mutual respect and affection is the key. Were you a positive force in your spouse’s life, helping them to thrive and be fulfilled? Were they a positive force in your life? If you answer no to these questions, the next question is why? Was it distraction and neglect and the loss of a previous good connection or… is there a fundamental incompatibility? We all know that the mad bliss of limerence cannot last. And it would be exhausting. Most people buy into the goal of happily ever after, not intoxicatedly ever after. If that’s your goal, a clear sighted review of the past of your marriage will probably help predict the future.
4) How are you currently relating to your spouse?
Limerence makes you resent the people that stand between you and your LO fix. Combined with the idealisation of LO and devaluation of boring familiar family life, this can lead to a negative feedback loop where your spouse becomes the enemy. Your spouse – and especially your children – are not the enemy. This trap is in your mind, and you need to escape it. If you are being a crap spouse, then obviously the marriage will continue to deteriorate and of course confirm the superiority of LO (who you only see at their best and most sparkly and novel). You need to re-value your spouse. Your response to question 3 can guide this, but the major point is: if you are currently treating them like a barrier to your happiness, your marriage is pretty much doomed. Get away from LO and try treating your spouse like the most important person in your life, whose happiness is a major priority for you. You know. Like they should be.
5) Would you leave your marriage if you knew for sure that LO would reject you?
If not, why not? Because you are fearful of being alone? Or because you’ll settle for spouse until the next LO who might accept you comes along? It should probably be clear that these are not good reasons for marriage. Always assume that LO will reject you. If you still mostly want to leave, that’s a pretty good indicator that things are bad with the union.
6) Are you living with purpose?
My perennial theme, and the sneaky basis for all the foregoing questions. Are you willing to let LO determine how your life and marriage proceed? Are you going to move through life responding to emotional disturbances in a reactive, fatalistic way? Or are you going to take responsibility for your decisions, and acknowledge that making a commitment sometimes means doing the right thing even when it’s not easy? Carrying on in a fog of indecision and anxiety is no way to live. You need to respect yourself and your spouse and make a decision. And probably, honestly, deep down, you know what the right decision is. The one that will lead to a future in which your self esteem and wellbeing are determined by the actions you take and what they say about you as a person. That may mean staying in your marriage, learning from your limerence experience, dissociating from LO, and understanding yourself and your spouse better. Or it may mean leaving an unhappy marriage that you have been trying to keep alive for too long and admitting to yourself that it hasn’t worked out and this isn’t a shameful failure, it’s life.
If you keep drifting along in limbo, too starstruck and addict-selfish to recommit to your spouse, or too hidebound to leave an unhealthy (but probably strangely comfortable) marriage, other people will be making the decisions about how your life unfolds. Dithering about something this fundamental is the opposite of purposeful living, and an invitation for ongoing limerence.
Phew; a long and serious post. To end, here’s my bullet point list of How To Get Through All This:
- Decide to live your life with purpose.
- If you can possibly go no contact with LO while you figure this out, do.
- Honestly evaluate whether your marriage has a future, based on an honest evaluation of its past.
- If it does, commit to it properly and fully, and prioritise your spouse’s feelings over your limerence.
- Part of that commitment should be honest communication. If you need to disclose, do it to your spouse but not your LO.
- Good luck and godspeed to the far side.
Did you write this for me? Ha, jk not that much of a narcissist. I plan to read and re-read your excellent post, but This Is What Happened to Me. LO was a married coworker that made some gestures that totally derailed me and caused me to lose my mind (all the symptoms of limerence). I never felt so fogged and confused as I did when it hit me. My wife of course noticed (as i think most would) and I decided honesty was the only way to play it. She was hurt but unbelievably supportive and we talked a lot. She asked that I sever contact and I did. For what it’s worth to those other married limerents, it was and is not easy but NC and disclosure to my wife definitely helped. Thanks for this post. I’ll return to it many times.
Glad to help LTHLO. Sometimes wisdom is painfully won. This is the strategy that got me through – glad to hear it worked for you too. Not easy, as you say, but definitely worth the effort.
Just a thought from the spouse of a man neck-deep in limerence. Don’t tell her about the LO (19 years her junior and 23 years younger than himself) on her 50th birthday. Less than a month after her mastectomy, while she’s still bald and feeling low.
Unless, of course, you want to be single but prefer to be kicked out by your “needy, inreasonable” wife of 25 years instead of simply leaving. Honesty may have led to public scorn, but at least I would have known I was fighting cancer alone rather than suspecting it. Thank goodness I don’t depend on his salary or health insurance.
Hi Lisa,
Yeah, that stinks. That doesn’t sound much like honest disclosure, or someone trying to manage their limerence responsibly.
Sorry to hear about your trials. Good luck with the fight!
Oh, my God…maybe his limerence was a way of dealing with your cancer, he was too weak to be there for you, so he fled into fantasy?
I agree, some men are escapist. They are not necessary bad person but are selfish and escape problems.
I wish someone could tell them that by just being around and doing nothing is enough for your spouse
No its not
My limerence appears when I am under severe stress. When I look back to my episodes they have occurred after severe emotional turmoil. My recent one was when both my parents died within a year of each other. This person was just there and showed extreme kindness. I guess it is a form of escapism or disassociating from one’s “real world”. I am so glad I have found a name for this condition. Being aware has been key for me.
Nope. This kind of behavior is totally self-focused, selfish behavior. I’ll bet the LO stepped up to “hear his grief” about sadness for his wife then made a move then. My husband couldn’t stop, even for support of my cancer.
OMG. I’m so sorry you went through this. Your story is my story. I helped spouse through med school and training; he was unsupportive of me in grad school; I wanted my chance at a professional life – all the while tending to home and child. His unhappiness festered but he would / could not tell me what he wanted. Frustrating, maddening. Then a married gold-digger colleague stepped in, he had no boundaries, and took the bait.
I battled cancer for years, and even though we moved, his contact with LO secretly continued for 10 years. Addicted? God, it had to be more than that. C’mon, it was a full-blown damned relationship. I suffered the worst betrayal trauma and c-PTSD anyone could imagine. Rock bottom was my trip to the local ER Behavioral Health Unit under suicide watch.
His limerance nearly cost me my life.
Best thing I’ve read yet on why my marriage of 21 years ended after tolerating 5 years of my husbands limerence addiction (and alcohol and Internet porn addictions). He played his behavior off as innocent boyish behavior. Told me after our first child left for college and my 50th that he had been “in love” for a year and a half with a happily married co-star in community theater (where 3 out of 4 of his LOs came from), and while he couldn’t understand his deep infatuation with her, if she had reciprocated he would have been there in a heartbeat.
Our relationship lacked profound limmerence. A previous relationship for me was short, deeply limmerent, and disastrous (terrible partner material). Husbands love experiences were also not stable, bouncing between two partners for which he felt deep limmerence and was never able to move to a more mature understanding of where either of those relationships would have gone in time.
He is now leaving because, in his words, he wants to feel romantic and passionate love (which he never felt for me), that he believes this is what caused him to fail to bond and attach to me (I feel, and I think he did, that we have a very strong companionate bond, and wanted to go to therapy to try to correct our bad patterns and deepen our emotional connection), and that he deserves the chance to finally be happy.
I recently experience a very profound period of limmerence for a co-worker. Perhaps due to poor self-esteem, I never imagine myself as realistically the object of someone else’s affection, so I have related to the few strong crushes I’ve had as chemical in nature, not based in reality, and something that would pass with time. I have been conscious of their obsessive nature, at times feeling, wow, this is so distracting and unrealistic, I can’t wait for this to pass. I recognize these people I might pursue if I were not in a committed relationship, but not as the evidence of a fault in my primary relationship.
My husband has said the following things: I want to have that in love feeling forever; our lack of “lost” in love feeling was a fatal flaw; I had doubts from the start; I thought my feelings would change; I think I don’t want to be anyone’s partner (with the mutual care and work that requires). These are all things he has said in the past four months. He never disclosed his unhappiness prior, rejected my invitations to therapy, and I had to uncover his infatuations. There was no disclosure (and yes, Facebook was a minefield and a source of secret communication). I explained to him my theory that these feelings are usually normal, and that if you disclose them to your partner, it often diffuses them. He was intensely focused on his right to having his own “private thoughts and private world.” At the same time, he NEVER said the word divorce, separation, etc. He feels we may have grown apart. I feel he rejected me in pursuit of limmerence, and never addressed that issue directly (like how he never expressed his “grave doubts” upon our wedding until now, and is only now coming to recognize his alcohol addiction after years of abuse and direct confrontation by me).
He sounds like a real nightmare, and at this point it’s accurate. But I believe we had a strong loving companionship that might have worked if he had truly been interested in doing the work required for a long-term partnership (which was what he said he wanted and had found with me). Reading your post here is a huge help in understanding this compulsion of his. I have to let it go, and am getting closer to that point, but I don’t think therapists do a good job of delineating between “married to the wrong person” or “love has died” or “grown apart” and the addictive pattern my husband had shown. Not having felt a “spark” for me may have been because he was extremely focused on his choice of me as good mother material. He does not seem to have an internal sense of what he *brings* to a relationship, as opposed to what he wants to receive.
In any event, the rejection has been brutal, and I can only hope I can find my own path and let this go. Still, it’s extremely helpful to place limmerence in the context of the demise of our relationship. In that sense, maybe we weren’t a good match, or never could be, because I could never be his limmerent ideal.
Thanks for sharing your story, Robin. Of the many nuggets of wisdom, this one jumped out for me “He does not seem to have an internal sense of what he *brings* to a relationship, as opposed to what he wants to receive.”
Given that you both clearly experience limerence, the difference in your reactions speaks volumes about how it is our choices that determine the consequences of becoming infatuated. He looks entirely to himself and how important his feelings are, whereas you can see past yours and make rational decisions despite the emotional overload.
Wishing you all the best in traversing the devaluation, and finding that positive path you are seeking.
Any thoughts on spouses who weren’t in need of rescuing and who fit the profile of someone who is interdependent? You know, who can stand on their own two feet, are a partner in life but find themselves shunted aside in favor of the Damsel in Distress (real or imagined)? I mean, I’m not high maintenance and never have been. I earn good money and handle a lot of household responsibilities, juggled the kids, supported him through some very tough events, tried to be appreciative even when there were times when it was a tough slog and all we could manage was being polite to one another because we were tired, stressed, possibly slightly overextended (raising kids is hard work and not good for a marriage! In fact, if you want a good marriage do NOT have children – and I love our children very very much), I certainly have supported him in his career, hobbies, etc. When the advice to the spouse is to “take care of yourself” and “demonstrate that you can go it alone and mean it” but that is what I have always done, what the hell else is there?
I was never the most decorative woman, but I didn’t make anyone run away screaming in horror either. I still don’t despite the years rolling by.
I do feel shitty that if “twinkly” is what is needed, then I’m up the proverbial creek. I don’t think he ever “twinkled” for me and after a few decades, it’s not going to happen now.
I’m not a victim – but I am human and it hurts to feel as though he may have settled for me when I don’t regard myself as being viewed with pity and in need of rescuing. I didn’t marry him with the aim of transforming him somehow.
I’ve had the odd flights of fancy about someone else, but I didn’t set anything into motion. No cheating, emotional or physical, and I knew that no matter where I go, there I am. Plus all you do is trade in one set of difficulties for many of the same, but more so. So while I haven’t experienced limerence, I can and do understand the moments where someone thinks, “Oh, what if…?” I don’t understand devaluing someone to this degree though. Or if you are that unhappy, not having the courage to be honest and end the relationship entirely.
Hi Lee,
I wish I could give some super-insightful advice, but to be honest, I think it’s just a really shitty thing that happens to a lot of people, and the only way through it is to focus on yourself. I agree “take care of yourself” is a platitude, but actually, really doing it is surprisingly hard. Especially when you’re being devalued by the person that you have supported throughout a joint life.
So, depressing reality aside, is there anything practical that can be done? Well, one thing definitely is not to compete with LO. You shouldn’t have to twinkle to get your spouse’s attention – you’ve earned that a hundred times over. The fact that he has forgotten that in the fog of limerence is not on you, it’s on him. Yes, limerence is tough to deal with. LO must be meeting some need of his that hasn’t been fulfilled, blah, blah, blah. Who doesn’t have unmet needs? Purposeful living is all about understanding yourself and gaining insight about your needs without causing harm to others. Especially the people you’ve committed to.
I probably come across as a bit sanctimonious about this, but ultimately it’s our actions that define our characters. If he has embarked on an affair with LO rather than (as you say) having the courage to behave with honesty, then I guess that’s his character. God knows all limerents know how hard it is to cope with the neurophysiological turmoil of infatuation, but you do get to choose how to cope with it. “This is stronger than either of us” is a cop out. My goal with this blog is to help limerents find ways to cope before the damage is done, so I do believe it’s possible.
I don’t mean to be excessively negative, but it is genuinely unfair that loyal spouses have to go through questioning their self worth in addition to being devalued. So, I suppose what I’m saying is focus on your value and your Values, and recognise that you deserve reciprocity and love regardless of how emotionally tumultuous he is feeling.
Finally, it will end. Limerence doesn’t last forever, and he will have to live with himself afterwards. The fact that you sound like a remarkably well composed and self-possessed person suggests that you will cope better than him. Probably little consolation, but worth adding to the “why I’m great” list.
Hi Dr. Limerence,
Thank you for the kind words. One very big important thing I left out (because this was all about ME – damnit!) is that he did NOT pursue this woman, disclosed that he was confused, embarrassed, horrified and didn’t know why she was in his head all the time. Neither of us had ever heard of limerence. Well, now we have. There was never any inappropriate behavior on her part. What he did do wasn’t physical, or even inappropriate except for the context. When we discussed it and I pointed out that he had compromised his integrity – to the smallest degree – and that would make it easier to do so in the future, he was rocked back on his heels. That was the day before I found the term limerence. After that, he has been very, very above-board in his behavior. Yes, she’s still in his head and yes, she is GORGEOUS in person, but in the end, he doesn’t know her. She’s not interested.
I want to give Mr. Lee full props where they are due. We are still partners and friends and I love him even after (mumbles) years and even this unexpected emotional blow. I guess one reason I was so stunned by it was that after being very, very ill, my libido had made a happy roaring comeback, and 2017 was a lot of fun in a lot of ways. LO didn’t put in an appearance until she was hired in September of 2017. That has now been dampened a bit. I feel very self-conscious and I don’t want to feel like a stand-in. Not that he has ever said that and in fact, he’s told me that isn’t the case, but it takes time for my emotions to catch up with my brain.
It still really sucks for me though to find myself suddenly as hurt as I was in junior high and high school, when I was overlooked and passed over and “friend-zoned” and it sucked. I never expected to be “friend-zoned” in my own marriage. Add on a few decades, some pounds that I can’t shift and well… It’s not fun for anyone. I keep having to tell myself that I’m not a consolation prize, I’m not a chump, despite the physiological effect she has on him (and did from the moment he clapped eyes on her), he loves me, he told me about it, he’s choosing me. I just wish that he wasn’t struggling with his own issues and one of them is wanting to be noticed or liked by the woman who is out of his league in appearance – just like high school and young adulthood. That MY good opinion mattered more. That he didn’t have to rationalize why he loves me and finds me attractive, that he didn’t have to talk himself into seeing me in a better light.
Damn hormones. Lousy limbic system. His LO found a new job and will be leaving soon. I’m not looking forward to watching him mourn the loss of his imaginary perfect girl. I know it sucks to be him and I know her memory will probably always trigger something in him when she pops into his head. I do hope it fades and that another LO doesn’t come along. I don’t think I have it in me for another go-round.
Let me repeat something because it’s important – he TOLD ME about this because he wasn’t happy about it. It was confusing and upsetting to him. He always thought he was a ‘better person’ than this and he didn’t like where his mind was taking him. So if there is anyone else here who is limerent and has a partner, please be a mensch and disclose. I did cry a bit but no hitting, no yelling but there was one dire pronouncement that was a swift hard kick to his frontal lobes (“if you are thinking about a mistress, remember that the only way that works is if you have a WIFE and I would rather pull the plug right here and right now”). he said it was like having ice water poured over his head and it woke him up to the fact that he needed to get a handle on whatever this was immediately. He did!
Thanks for letting me vent and ramble. Best wishes to all the readers. Limerents – please consider full disclosure as early as possible.
Wow, I love this, even a few years after it was written it is continuing to help us mortal limerent souls to understand what the hell is going on inside of us!
I’m amazed, disgusted and very often overwhelmed by my limerent personality swinging between rhyme and reason but this article helps me keep on the side of reason.
I’ve been 3 weeks no contact with LO which is definitely the answer to healing but the withdrawal is tough as feelings of sad emptiness often block any motivation to live my purposeful life. My brain just wants to keep ruminating in the memories of LO and the LEs which were physical and reciprocated for a time. I still want the high, the validation, the feeling of worth that it bestowed upon me. I often feel I can’t be bothered with real life. LO tried for a year to remain friends as he said I was so special and important to him and I thought I could do that whilst trying to work on my marriage which I’d decided is very important to me but eventually I couldn’t take it as it was too superficial so I confessed my continued limerent feelings to him. When he saw that I needed to let go but I wanted to remain attached he told me he couldn’t bear the thought of hurting me like this and that we shouldn’t see one another. (He had moved on from being single to a stable relationship) I thanked him for making this happen as I just couldn’t seem to do the right thing (cake and eat it??!) and feel relieved that I can now just concentrate on what’s really important in my life, my innocent (unaware) husband and children. I feel like a shitty human who went against all her principals and integral self but I also feel that disclosing to my husband would be burdening him and cause so much pain. It’s over, for a year it’s been only in my head and the pain and confusion is for me to deal with and help me understand what lead me there in the first place.
I wish you all so much strength and courage if you are traversing a period like this. It’s very hard and creates so much turmoil within. I’m very grateful that I managed to keep my marriage intact and prioritise it although there is still a lot of work to do. If I leave my marriage I want it to be with my self respect in tact knowing that I respected my husband and our union.
I think no contact and the purposeful life is the only way to move forward and thank you Dr L. for creating this amazing blog. A life raft in the rough seas of limerence!
Karen, thank you. I may as well have written your post! I’m brand new to this term, limerence. My therapist suggested i look into it today and it describes me to a tee. I have been suffering incredibly with it for about 8 years. So thankful to have found this blog and to know I’m not actually alone in this.
Looks like I was quick to jump to conclusions, Lee!
It sounds like you have a lot to work with there, and Mr Lee has handled this responsibly (with the help of a quick splash of cold water). It’s tough — nobody wants this to happen in a happy marriage — but it can be managed until it passes. We limerents don’t invite it in (usually), and the best that can be done is to behave with integrity. Good luck to you both.
Hi again –
I know that Mr. Lee will mourn the loss of his LO when she leaves for her new job. I expect that. I’m even sympathetic. It’s a loss and grief is part of loss; I don’t want him to try to shortcut through the process or it might blow up in his face as well as land on me and our family. He doesn’t have a habit of addressing underlying issues or permitting himself to deal with his feelings of guilt or shame. He’d rather those stayed under a rug.
Anyway, once she leaves is there some sort of general time line I should anticipate? Would it be out of line for me to expect him to mourn for approximately as long as she was a co-worker? Longer? I mean, I know there are no hard and fast rules with this but it might help to have a sense of the process. I don’t know if it lasts longer than a miserable breakup when you’re single, for example. I’ve dealt with the unexpected death of a beloved, but at least that man is dead. There is no chance of an encounter or reading about their exploits on Facebook or something.
Meanwhile, I’m working through my insecurities about my looks. Again. I hope this time it truly sticks. If I’m completely honest, I hope it sticks and limerence never rears up in my husband. Or myself. Although if I should find myself in the grips of it I know my husband will be much kinder to me going through it than he is to himself. I wish he would be as kind to himself as he would be to anyone else!
Thanks for your thoughts everyone.
You’re right, I’m afraid – there really are no hard and fast rules. I’ve read plenty of stories at both extremes: where limerence vanishes almost overnight because of something the LO says or does, but also of people who pine for years. It depends so much on the individuals involved. The fact that the limerence is unwelcome and your husband is motivated to get over it and stay committed to you is cause for encouragement…
Finally, working on your insecurities is always good, but my experience was that limerence came on entirely independently of my wife’s attractiveness (physical or personality-wise). By that I mean that it was nothing to do with losing attraction for her or finding the LO more good-looking. Many people fall into limerence for LOs who are less attractive than their partners. So even if LO is stunning, that’s unlikely to be the primary cause of limerence.
Lee, I just stumbled on this site while looking for information on limerence. I’m astounded at the parallels between the stories here and what my spouse and I are working through–I had no idea how common this is. Reading about other’s experiences helps me cope with what we are struggling with.
In my case, my LO is a coworker. I disclosed everything to my wife last year, and we are trying to work through the hurt and emotions. I still work with my LO, so we have been unable to avoid contact. I don’t know how long it lasts–we have been going through this about 9 months.
My spouse is having a very hard time understanding how this could have happened, how my love for her could be “replaced” by my LO (despite my insistence it is not–rather, I feel both at once) and why this can’t be quickly fixed if only we observe very strict boundaries in our interactions.
After decades of marriage I’ve never encountered this before, so I feel rather blindsided by it.
If your husband’s limerence was one-sided, I’d like to think it will diminish sooner, especially since his LO is leaving the workplace. I wish you all the best.
Sam,
Best wishes to you and your wife too.
Mr. Lee also has PTSD, BPD, and some other issues. It seems that limerence cropping up was almost a foregone conclusion, the question was when & how would he handle it. I think he has handled it quite well to date.
Lee,
Was there any discussion of what he found so compelling about her? LO #4 wasn’t better than my wife but she was very different. If you read the other blogs, they explain the physiology of addiction, rewards, reinforcement, etc. But, something made her appealing to him even after she wasn’t interested. Was this his first limerent experience? The usual answer is she reminded him of someone or something that may not be consciously held. Maybe it was her voice, the way she tilted her head, it could be anything. But, it was something.
They may or may not be important questions. I went back to the therapist 6 months after we said goodbye. I wanted to know why I went down the rabbit hole since if it happened once, it could happen again, and I might not be as lucky the next time. I also detected LO #4 was a pattern.
In many ways, she not completely dissimilar to me in appearance and personality when I was around the same age (but single and without children) in general build – although where I was slender and athletic, she is slender. Yes, there is something about her voice he has remarked simply sealed it for him. He said when he first saw her, he felt the bubbles. Then she spoke and everything lit up. However, she is far more attractive to a wider audience. And almost 20 years younger.
The more I read, the more I realize how fortunate we were that he recognized early on that this was more than a workplace crush and discussed it with me. As I say, he didn’t fall off the fidelity wagon although there was one instance where he compromised his principles to a small degree and didn’t realize it until I pointed it out. He disagreed initially, but when I laid out what I saw in the anecdote, he understood and was truly horrified. After that he took still further steps to get distance from her. Not because she had done anything wrong – she hasn’t!
One thing that troubles me just a bit, is one time he said IF she had expressed an interest he would respond that, “I have nothing to offer you, I’m married and I love Lee.” The order makes me a little concerned. Now, it never happened. Perhaps if it had come up he would have said, “I love Lee, we’re happily married” and “I have nothing to offer you” would never have been stated. That may be overly sensitive on my part, but perhaps not. I don’t think that is a woman thing, entirely, but as I pay very close attention to language and how it’s used in general, it jangles my nerves. What do you gentlemen think? If your wife were to use that word order, would you be a little concerned? Presuming she was discussing the person for whom she is lime rent? For example, I don’t like the phrase “Limerent Object; they’re people, not objects.
I’m probably overthinking it, but it still leaves me feeling a little downhearted. That’s too strong a word, maybe a little flat? Like soda that has lost some of its bubbles. I’m resilient and resourceful; I’ll eventually be less wobbly, but it will take a little time and effort.
In the meantime, Mr. Lee is doing really well. Every so often I bring up something related to the situation and he says he doesn’t want to discuss it/her, but I gently point out that this is something about me that he needs to know or at least I need to discuss with him. So we can also get a handle on my responses. I don’t always want him to respond, I want him to listen as I try and make sense of it in my mind. It’s not always bad to have some insight into how another person thinks things through.
We love each other very much. I can’t say that this has been pleasant, but for me this doesn’t compare to earlier crises in our lives or marriage. Different. Definitely different but upon reflection not the worst.
So maybe she represents the possibilities inherent in her age and situation. Adventure, for example. It’s one thing to quit your job and go sailing around the world when you’re single and can live on love. Quite another when you have a mortgage, children who would be less than charitable about you abandoning the other parent and extended families who may or may not be supportive of running away. Not everyone believes that doing whatever makes you happy, regardless of the cost, is a good idea. If that is something he wants to do, of course he could do it. (I would hope he would go through the hassle of divorce first.) To the best of my knowledge he doesn’t, but I know it’s tempting sometimes. I think EVERYONE has wanted to run away from home at least once or twice.
So, I’ve pointed out that I’m up for some excitement too. I’ll go spelunking, it would be fun to learn how to scuba dive, there are places to go and get skid pad training and then drive a race car on a track and so on. Maybe this spring and summer we’ll go do some neat stuff together. I’ve suggested things through the years but he didn’t want to do them for one reason or another. Perhaps this will break the ice. I’m certainly going to try and make it work for us.
Sorry this is so long. I hope it informs any replies. Thanks to you all.
“One thing that troubles me just a bit, is one time he said IF she had expressed an interest he would respond that, “I have nothing to offer you, I’m married and I love Lee.” The order makes me a little concerned. Now, it never happened. Perhaps if it had come up he would have said, “I love Lee, we’re happily married” and “I have nothing to offer you” would never have been stated.”
I think I would have responded the same way. Keep in mind, if they were having that conversation at all, they knew what territory they were in. Also, you weren’t going to be a part of that conversation, he would have been talking to her and under different circumstances, he may have had something to offer her. When I disclosed to LO #4, her response was, “I had no idea. I’m flattered and might even be curious but circumstances are what they are.” In her goodbye, she said she didn’t think “…continuing to correspond would be appropriate.” It didn’t take a rocket scientist to know what she meant.
As bad as this sounds, I knew if things went south I had no defense. I could have explained some of it but I couldn’t excuse it. One of the things that led me to get out was there was no upside to my marriage. None. I was one question away from being in the position of lying to my wife or throwing LO # under the bus in an attempt to perform damage control.
I could anticipate this conversation:
1. Who is this woman?
2. How long has this been going on?
3. Of all the shoulders in the world she could be crying on, why is she crying on yours?
4. Why are you encouraging her?
Nothing about my association with that woman would enhance my marriage. That doesn’t make her any less attractive, it makes her a threat. LOs may be unsuitable candidates for relationships but whether they’re suitable or unsuitable doesn’t excuse betrayal. It was only going to get worse from there.
Have you read the blog The Glimmer? Something has to get our attention.
Scharnhorst,
Thank you for your reply and pointing that out, it helps a great deal.
Yes, I have read it and even shared some of it with Mr. Lee who agreed with portions of it. In the meantime, he’s taken active steps to minimize his contact with her and now that he knows what is going on, he says he’s going to be rather relieved when she has left. He has noticed how it affects his work too as well as home. Not that either of us think it will be like cutting the light switch after she has moved on. But it will make it easier to move forward (with clarity of purpose).
Mr. Lee has remarked that limerence can be exhausting to have and to hold at bay. Ruminating takes time and effort, so does keeping busy and practicing active avoidance.
One thing that troubles me just a bit, is one time he said IF she had expressed an interest he would respond that, “I have nothing to offer you, I’m married and I love Lee.” The order makes me a little concerned.
Yes, I think your intuition is right – but I wouldn’t be too concerned. Remember that the limerent will be very powerfully motivated to retain the LO’s good opinion and would not want to just come out and say “I am not attracted to you.” It would be a lie for one thing, but also painful for LO to hear. “I have nothing to offer you” is a way of implying that the issue is lack of availability, not lack of attractiveness on their part. Where this sort of dancing around the issue is a problem is if mutual limerence is occurring and it feeds uncertainty (not a rejection but also not reciprocation).
In contrast, “I love Lee” is direct and unequivocal. No scope for misunderstandings there. Direct affirmation of his priorities and feelings. Also, ultimately, this has not come to pass because your husband’s actions have meant the imagined confrontation has not occurred. That counts for a lot.
Lastly, I know what you mean about “limerent object”, but I actually like the coinage. You are quite right that they are people and not objects, but the key thing is that the limerent is not treating them like a person (with flaws and virtues and complicated lives). They are projecting all their own needs and fantasies onto this imaginary person in their mind – objectifying them.
“It would be a lie for one thing, but also painful for LO to hear. “I have nothing to offer you” is a way of implying that the issue is lack of availability, not lack of attractiveness on their part.”
Which sounds, to me, like someone who is leading the LO on and/or is looking for the LO to make a better offer, or somehow suggest a way around the blockade (me). It’s moot though. He’s avoiding her like she has the Spanish Flu. Actions trump words and I’m really glad he’s walking the talk.
That’s a good point about the phrase “limerent object”. They are being objectified which isn’t fair to anyone, even the LO whether they know it or not.
“Did he say what about her looks and voice sang to him?”
He doesn’t really know what, precisely, about her looks grabbed him but she is a very attractive woman. Her first language is Greek, so she speaks with an accent. Apparently the accent is what locked him in.
Lee,
Did he say what about her looks and voice sang to him?
I’ve been married a long time and met a lot of attractive, intelligent, and charming women. Only one of them got inside my head and she wasn’t even trying. There may have been things going on that made limerence conducive but that wasn’t what he was responding to.
It took a fair amount of work to get to the bottom of what my drivers were. But once I did, I came to the realization:
It’s not that I don’t have anything to offer her, she has nothing to offer me.
““It would be a lie for one thing, but also painful for LO to hear. “I have nothing to offer you” is a way of implying that the issue is lack of availability, not lack of attractiveness on their part.”
It’s not like we actually tell them the truth….
“I usually don’t act like this but you reeaallly carbonate my hormones.”
Or, even better, assuming your Person of Interest (renamed LO) would understand this (POI #4 would), I can only imagine what she’d think if I came out with,
“I find you really appealing but my therapist thinks you remind me of my mother and I’m merely trying to reconcile my insecure attachment by getting it right with you. I told her my mother wasn’t even a redhead.”
Yeah, I’m sure she’d find that flattering…
I should have written a lack of ATTRACTION by the person in limerence. It’s a way of leaving the door propped open. “If only my partner/your partner/social norms weren’t standing in our way. We would be so good together.” Which nicely sets up the spouse as a pesky impediment rather than a person.
It’s a difficult situation. Full sunlight will either make the nascent relationship able to grow because the partner/spouse will no longer be a stumbling block, or it won’t be as interesting without someone or something (rules about office romances) in the way if one leaves the job for another.
If someone is worth pursuing or being pursued, then it’s equally true if they do it with “clean hands”. Why would you want to sully someone with a sneaky beginning?
I realize logic doesn’t play well with limerence, but that’s why we have to slow our roll and use our brains a bit more. Always hard to do when angry, or lustful, etc.
So again, Mr. Lee has demonstrated why he still has my respect (and vice versa). He disclosed it to me and we are trying to figure it out as it plays out.
LO isn’t unlike me in personality when I was around that age, but she’s single and unburdened with any children. Far more attractive to a larger swath of society though. So it’s like dating the most gorgeous girl in high school. It makes the social standing of the guy dating her go way up! Plus very good-looking people are frequently presumed to be more intelligent, more honest, more capable, etc. by society at large. Pretty heady stuff if your self-esteem is tanked for one reason or another.
Thanks again for your thoughts.
“LO isn’t unlike me in personality when I was around that age, but she’s single and unburdened with any children. Far more attractive to a larger swath of society though. So it’s like dating the most gorgeous girl in high school. It makes the social standing of the guy dating her go way up! Plus very good-looking people are frequently presumed to be more intelligent, more honest, more capable, etc. by society at large. Pretty heady stuff if your self-esteem is tanked for one reason or another.”
This is why I didn’t disclose to my wife against the advice of the therapist. I’m not big fan of therapists but there are times you need to call a pro and there was too much riding on things to get it wrong. I was talking to a therapist to determine the best way to get out of things and figure how I got there with the least amount of trouble. We were having a trying time in our marriage, during which time I met the POI. Knowing there was another woman out there would have only made those worse.
My LE was never really illicit but it was deeply personal. I was responding on a level that should have been reserved for my wife. The more the POI revealed, the more I wanted to know about her. The more I learned, the more attracted I became. Over time, I got in too deep. Limerence being what it is, it’s hard to just walk away from. I don’t know if she would be a suitable candidate. The more I learn about myself, the guess is probably not. I told her that as cool as making a run at her would be, I hoped I was never in the position to find out because if I was, something terrible would have to happen in my life. She never responded to that.
In my response to her goodbye, I said, “Some people you meet in life are like a piece of fine art. It will never be yours, you don’t even get to touch it, but it doesn’t mean you don’t appreciate it when you see it.” The blogs on Choices and Integrity talk to this. She didn’t make goodbye necessary, I did. At first, I saw things as a loss, but not anymore. In an odd way, I’m grateful to her. Because of her, I ended up addressing issues I’d carried for decades. My life and marriage are better today because I encountered her. But, not everybody that comes into your life is meant to stay there.
In a perfect world, people wouldn’t face those kind of choices. For every, “I Only Have Eyes for You” there’s “Lightning’s Striking Again.” Like DrL says, it’s not that we feel things, it’s what we do when we feel them.
“In a perfect world, people wouldn’t face those kind of choices. For every, “I Only Have Eyes for You” there’s “Lightning’s Striking Again.” Like DrL says, it’s not that we feel things, it’s what we do when we feel them.”
R’amen!
“My life and marriage are better today because I encountered her.”
I’m so glad for you both.
So I re-read Scharnhorst’s post, “Jealousy” and I have a question.
For those who are in a committed relationship, but who develop an attraction or limerence for another, have you ever found yourself jealous of people who try to fill the void left by your distraction? Mr. Lee has been struggling with LO still being at the workplace (gone tomorrow) and apparently I haven’t been entirely successful at masking my discomfort/distress. I have tried to do so however! I have my pride & dignity, as well as Mr. Lee’s to consider. Several people have noticed my affect is a bit flat and being good people, inquire. This includes a few gentlemen. I have simply said there has been some private family issues that have cropped up, we’re managing and there is improvement, but thank you for asking. No, no, nothing dire but I may be a bit more distracted and please let me know if it seems to be affecting my job performance. (I earn more, we can’t afford for me to slip up).
I have mentioned having these brief conversations with individuals to Mr. Lee. Not to threaten him but so that I don’t find myself going down the path of having something to hide. I’m not shopping around. However there is a void and I can see how someone might permit or even encourage a third party to displace the limerent spouse who is already preoccupied.
Ugly things can happen. I’m guarded. I haven’t discussed our situation with anyone in person (only here) and I don’t want to stumble.
Anyway, if Limerent Spouse were to notice Spouse/SO is drifting, or that there was a potential romantic rival for S/SO does jealousy follow? Or is jealousy (possesiveness) exclusively reserved for LO and romantic rivals (real or imagined)?
Again, I am NOT looking for a new paramour, nor do I feel there is someone looking to fill Mr. Lee’s role, but I can imagine it happening if circumstances were different, or someone was feeling neglected for too long or at a critical juncture. Especially if the limerence were particularly acute (emotional leakage is real, folks) or continued long enough for a partner’s antennae to not only quiver, but caused real distress.
I’m not talking about being manipulative, I’m talking about someone feeling badly then making bad decisions and taking hurtful actions.
I think I’m also advocating for early disclosure so these seeds are less likely to germinate.
Gentle Readers, what do you think?
This sort of question illustrates nicely why I’m an advocate of “purposeful living”. There are pitfalls everywhere. The spectator spouse will inevitably go through the emotional wringer, which will be noticed by friends and colleagues. If the limerent spouse is devaluing them, then the appeal of concerned others will be obvious (I need emotional support, my partner is too obsessed with their LO to notice, and this attractive person is showing that they care about me). For the limerent spouse, how they respond to their partner showing interest in others is likely to depend on how deeply they are in limerence for LO – they may welcome it as a great excuse as to why they should dump spouse and make a play for LO, or it may panic them into waking up. Then, of course, they may come to resent it later as manipulative (even if it isn’t), just as you suggest.
Basically, it’s such a complex scenario, with multiple possible unpredictable bad outcomes, that the only way that I can figure out to deal with it is to communicate honestly, behave with integrity, and do the hard work of figuring out exactly what you as an individual want to do. If both partners are doing that, in good faith and with mutual respect, then the chances of a catastrophe should be markedly reduced. If either partner is being deceitful or disrespectful, then it’s unlikely that the other will stay committed for long (justly). Unless they have low self-esteem, of course.
Well, then I still think Mr. Lee and I will be okay. I mention the conversations because I don’t want him caught by surprise and it keeps the lines of communication open. Mr. Lee is still feeling adrift regarding some other issues, but at least not about LO. While a really nice individual, not interested in him and he says he’ll be relieved when she’s left. I suspect there will be moping this weekend but we have made plans to go out and maybe that will lessen it a little. Redirection for the moment.
Mr. Lee disclosed relatively early after the onset (IMO), so that probably minimized the necessary fuel for growth. It’s not like anyone is looking to step into Mr. Lee’s place, but I can see how it can happen. Hence my wondering if the Limerent individual becomes jealous if someone appears to desire their S/SO who currently isn’t as interesting (said in the Bugs Bunny voice when he was playing hairdresser to the Monster).
If either partner is deceitful or disrespectful, then the relationship had bigger issues and fissures all along – more than limerence. Although I can see how it would cause the glacier to calf!
Have a lovely weekend everyone.
Will the limerent become jealous if their SO gains someone’s attention? Maybe, maybe not. As DrL says, there are a lot of variables. Having made at least one bad assumption in my most recent LE, any proposed course of action should be evaluated for its unintended consequences and this has the potential for any number of them.
Maybe Mr. L would get jealous. On the other hand, knowing you may have something else going for you might be just the incentive he needs to go all in for a run on the LO. Maybe he would think that you were doing it out of spite. If he’s really creative, you’ve been harboring this all along and uses it as justification for the LE. You can (almost) rationalize anything if you want it badly enough.
People do notice when your head’s not in the game. When I broke up with LO #2, I started making mistakes at work. Luckily, I had a boss who’d gone through a messy divorce. He pulled me aside and told me to take some time off before I did something that would tank my career. I did and it didn’t.
I see nothing wrong with telling Mr. Lee that the whole LO situation is affecting your performance at work and people are starting to ask questions but I think you’re taking an unnecessary risk if you even hint there’s a chance of there being anything under the tip of that iceberg.
Oh no no no Scharnhorst! There is nothing under there!
My comment was noting that if a relationship was already on a less firm foundation (a habit of deceit, disrespect or other problems) then limerence might be the final straw.
Not looking for a new Mr. Lee. Simply wondering how thongs tend to unfold. I don’t tendto put off distress signals, so this is attention-getting for my co-workers. New for me too. I’m generally much better at bouncing through, over and around tough situations. I’m resilient & resourceful. Hence my finding this blog and making inquiries.
In the meantime, I think we’re doing well, in light of the situation. Miss LO starts at new job next week. I like her, but I’m relieved. I know Mr. Lee will oscillate but he’s been less distracted lately. Just a little bit.
No, it hasn’t affected my job performance to the best of my knowledge. I’ve been given more responsibilities since this began and a bonus. I was being proactive when I asked other’s to let me know if I was slipping.
In the meantime, we have made weekend plans. I hope everyone enjoys a few days of fun and relaxation.
*things*, not thongs. My glasses are elsewhere and the font is a little small.
Still, it’s a little chuckle. I’ll laugh at myself.
I think “caught by surprise” was misunderstood. If someone should ask Mr. Lee what has made me a bit flat, I want him to know the party line & that I haven’t disclosed the situation. Not that anyone was sniffing around, or being encouraged by me to do so.
Simply that he may find himself fielding a polite or concerned inquiry,or two. I don’t want him to feel put on the spot.
“My comment was noting that if a relationship was already on a less firm foundation (a habit of deceit, disrespect or other problems) then limerence might be the final straw.”
In one of his other blogs, DrL talks about whether there are existing issues in the relationship that are exacerbated upon one partner finding an LO or does one encounter an LO and then begins to find fault in the existing relationship as justification for pursuing the LO. In my case, it was definitely the former.
I’ve posted about this elsewhere so I’ll give the short version. There was a time there were serious issues in my marriage to the point I’d consulted a divorce attorney. Nothing gets somebody’s attention like a $600 charge on your credit card to one of the best sharks in town. At the time, I was revisiting a lot of my decisions in life, particularly LO #2. She had never remarried but appeared to have a boyfriend. Trying to make sense of the events of the past is what got me in front of a therapist the first time. It took awhile but I think I understood what happened back then and saw no reason to go back. Things in my marriage eventually turned around and at the end of the year, we’ll have been married 30 years. Not all of them were easy.
One interesting point is you can never precisely determine what anybody’s tripping point is. LO #2 sent me a Facebook friend request 25 years after we last spoke. I declined it. I’d reconciled the past by then. If that request had come in the week after I’d seen the divorce attorney, I don’t know what might have happened. It may have been all I needed to say, “The hell with this. Time to pull the plug.”
Rambling on, I stopped in a restaurant after playing golf one day. I asked the bartender about some of their specials. She said I should like them on Facebook and I’d know before I came in. There was a woman a few seats down who said, “Facebook, Bleah!” I asked if that was a general or specific “Bleah!” She held her hand up to the noticeable absence of a wedding ring and said that her now ex-husband’s old girlfriend contacted him after 28 years, he asked for a divorce, and they got together. She said obviously their marriage wasn’t very strong if someone could come out of nowhere after 28 years and wreck it.
So, in response to your question, based on my personal experience, limerence could be the final straw. But, also in my personal experience, it doesn’t have to be.
Nothing gets somebody’s attention like a $600 charge on your credit card to one of the best sharks in town.
I suspect seeing a charge to a Marital counselor might have had the same effect, with less cost. Especially if you had brought up feeling it was necessary prior to going.
It sounds as though money was spent on counseling eventually. If you don’t mind answering, was it solo or joint/marital?
The reason I saw an attorney was efforts to make things better failed and I was advised by the counselor to remove the children from a toxic environment. He said he was willing to sign an affadivit we could put before a judge that would grant me sole custody.
Faced with the loss of the marriage and loss of her kids, she sought help. We’re using a combo of individual & joint therapy. Individual to address personal issues & joint to integrate what we’ve learned.
“We’re using a combo of individual & joint therapy. Individual to address personal issues & joint to integrate what we’ve learned.”
I’m so glad it’s working for you both, as well as the family. Have the kids noticed an improvement? Or have you (s/pl) noticed changes in the kids?
The kids are in a much better place. Our son was pretty young and his sister did her best to shield him from as much as possible. Some residual resentment still pops up in our daughter from time to time but she’s largely reconciled with her mother and forgiven me for enabling her. Our son is struggling with complications of Type I diabetes he was diagnosed with several years ago.
It’s going on 5 yrs since the poop hit the fan but there’s no longer any doubt we’re in it for the long haul. We hit 30 yrs in December.
Thank you so much for this post. I have been limetant for a month and it’s torture!
I’m happily married for 13 years with two kids and this crush came out of the blue and is the first time I’ve experienced this in the 16 years we’ve been together. I honestly thought having a crush was not something that would ever happen to me again.
Luckily this is a man I rarely see in person (we go to the same church but I try to go to a service other than the one he goes to). I hadn’t heard from him in 16 days and was moving on from the height of the limerance when he emailed me and I’ve been drawn in again.
In a weird was this crush has enlivened my marriage, we are communicating more and having more (and great) sex. I’m reluctant to tell my husband though he’s a pretty laid back guy, I think he would take it in stride. I guess I’m just a bit ashamed about it.
But just knowing this is (hopefully) temporary insanity helps me cope with it and I hope it passes soon. I also hope my LO doesn’t contact me again. I can’t seem to keep myself from writing back.
Block his email. You can’t be tempted by what you don’t see.
“The heart desires what the eyes see” is not only a Dutch saying, it fuels sales (and limerence)!
Also, tell your husband. You love him and trust him – right? If you take risks for LO (deep soul-baring duscussions) that you won’t have with your husband then you are shortchanging and replacing him.
At the minimum – block his email, phone number, etc.
Careful telling your spouse. I told mine a year ago and was completely unprepared for the barrage of insecurity and accusations that came my way. We are still together but it has been very rocky. I’m not sure trust can be repaired now.
I believed in open and honest communication which is why I discussed it with her. For this one thing I wish I could have made an exception. I honestly wish I had buried and forgotten it, never to be mentioned. Perhaps ignorance really is bliss.
Well, my spouse told me a little more than a year ago and no, it hasn’t always been fun; but if I had found out any other way – it would have been worse. Much, much worse. I don’t like being chumped, trusting fool, or beard (someone who wants the social perks of being married, but is sneaking behind their spouse’s back wooing another).
In the end, is there any good way to tell your spouse that you’re feeling all tingly when in the presence of someone else? No. But to spring it on them as you’re heading to the exit literally or figuratively (emotional and/or physical affair) is very likely going to blow up in your face.
Best thing is to honestly disclose and understand that at that point, you cede control to your spouse/SO.
Hi Dr Limerence- just found this page today and love your work… my hubby walked out 6 mths ago due to and emotional affair… just wondering if you can write something on (or point me in the right direction if you have already done so) the memory loss and re-writing if history for the primary relationship? My hubby seems to only have negative memories of our 8.5 yrs together, even to the point of not remembering any positives when on holidays together, and saying the purchasing our home was all me- even though he was right there with em every step of the way… are there any tips for countering this distortion? I feel like I want to do an intervention and go line by line through our life together- but it’s like he believes his own stories that it was just all terrible (why anyone would stay together for that long while as unhappy as he makes out is beyond my comprehension, but he can’t see any reason)…
Hi Maddi – welcome to the blog, but sorry to hear what brought you here.
I haven’t written specifically about the “historical rewrite” phenomenon, but it is depressingly common. I think there are a couple of ways of thinking about it. One is that someone who betrays their spouse has to somehow reconcile that act against their self-image of being a good person. The cognitive dissonance can be managed by persuading themselves that the past was an illusion, their spouse was terrible, and that they are therefore justified in their selfish decision. A very self-serving argument.
The second way of looking at it is that no relationship is perfect. While in the midst of a limerence bubble, it’s very easy to notice the petty irritations of everyday life, selectively remember the times when the limerent was genuinely frustrated (or there were genuine problems), and essentially make that the central narrative of the marriage. That isn’t so transparently false as the first case, but still results in self-justification.
It is an interesting topic – I’ll think about it a bit more, and see if there’s enough value to work up into a post.
Best wishes and good luck.
Thanks Dr Limerence- I also just saw the new blog post on this topic – will comment over there!
Try Midlife Club too. It’s been years since I logged on, but there is a lot of support for SO’s who are left behind for someone shiny & new.
Also ChumpLady (there is a forum you can join, but there is also a website where you can read and comment without joining anything).
Wow! I just discovered the word limerence. I read all of the comments and feel like I’m not alone. These strange and powerful feelings I have for this person who has been out of my life for 20+ years. A person I had a short romantic relationship with. A person I don’t see because they live 300 miles away from me. I have only seen his Facebook page and put together that he’s had a child and 1 divorce and has a 2nd wife, she’s beautiful. My husband has no idea that I have an LO, he would be so crushed because I have had a relationship with this LO. I want to contact my LO but I know better. I just journal everything in an email when I feel I need to vent. The feelings I have about my LO are innocent. I just wish I could spend one day with this person, and do regular things, like friends, but I know it can’t happen. He’s married and I’m married, this will never be a thing! How do I shake him off?
Short answer…start with the articles on “glimmer.”
Once you determine the source of the attraction, you can look at your relationship to identify the perceived mismatch. What’s making the LO appear attractive to you?
I get a sense of “unfinished business.” How did you close the books back then? Did you want a different outcome? If you left things on the table, or you didn’t want the relationship to end, and there are problems in your current relationship, that sense can be hauntingly powerful. Watch out for it. Re-visiting the past with an LO I hadn’t heard from in 25 years led me into an emotional affair with a new LO. Different woman, similar attraction.
Figuring out how your past affected your present can be a really enlightening trip. Mine was. Only I didn’t go back 25 years to figure it, I had to go back 50.
Thank you Scharnhorst, It is so nice just to type this out for another person to read/ see/ comment. I think you are right, there is a lot going on in my relationship with my husband we argue over finances and life goals. He has developed severe mental illness issues and is jealous of other men in general. I am the bread winner of the family and maybe my LO looks attractive is because it looks like he is accomplished in his life. By accomplished I mean he has a college degree, owns a house, had a good career as an engineer, is able to travel around the world. It seems so awesome but it makes me think I made some really bad choices in life. Don’t get me wrong, I like my life, love my children, I love my job and I am becoming accomplished in my own right. I just wish my partner that was as driven as I was.
Let’s back up, so my husband knows this LO and hates him because we were in a love triangle all of those years ago. I was dating my LO before I met my husband but we were underage and would talk on the phone or meet places like the movies, teen night at clubs and an amusement park, or he’d come over or we’d go on walks in my neighborhood, eventually we broke off the romantic part of our relationship and just were friends, we stopped meeting in person.
Then I met my husband (then boyfriend) and two years in to our relationship, I cheated on my husband (then boyfriend) with my LO. It was horrible because I had never done anything like that and I feel like it was a bad reflection of who I am. It was a rough closing, I just told him I couldn’t talk to him anymore. We were all teens and I’m glad the boys didn’t get in a physical fight back then. I can hear my husband (then boyfriend) telling me that my LO was just using me, that guys like him are horrible and spread rumors about girls. I wish we would have had these awkward conversations back then. I wish I could have known what his intentions were back then and if our actions caused him to see me in a negative light. I want to know if I was important to him and let him know that he was important to me but this stuff might sound weird to some because I am sure the majority of people these days have had more than two sexual partners in their life.
My LO tried to call me a couple of years later and mad some nonchalant message on my answering machine as if we had been in contact, this threw my husband (then boyfriend) but we worked it out. I never called him back. I know that my LO and I aren’t a good match sexually and although my husband has shortfalls he is a perfect match sexually. My mind is such mush and I know I need to stay with my husband and work with him to improve his health. The easy thing to do is daydream about my LO but I need to find a way to stop thinking about him all together.
50 years seems like you have gone through a bunch of tortured days. I’m sorry. I hope everything is getting better for you. Thank you again for reaching out.
Please explain the articles on glimmer, I’m not familiar.
Wow!
That explains quite a bit. I know what it’s like to question your decisions in life and revisit the past. In my case, it wasn’t the woman (LO #2) from the past that landed me here, it was a woman I subsequently encountered (LO #4) that landed me here.
As for “glimmer,” it’s what LOs appear to give off that attracts you to them. DrL talks about it in his early blogs. But, from what you said, you don’t need to understand that. You had a real relationship with him.
This is why God invented therapists. Have you ever grieved for the loss of that relationship? When I reached a similar point with the woman in my past, a therapist helped me close the books vicariously. If you can find a good, they can be worth their weight in gold.
As for the 50 year part, when I was working with the therapist, talking about the woman in my past, my mother kept coming up. To get past that woman, I had to get past my childhood. You may not need to go back that far.
“I wish I could have known what his intentions were back then and if our actions caused him to see me in a negative light. I want to know if I was important to him and let him know that he was important to me but this stuff might sound weird to some because I am sure the majority of people these days have had more than two sexual partners in their life.”
I’ll ask you the same question the therapist asked me when I expressed similar thoughts.
“What would you do with that knowledge if you had it?”
“…there is a lot going on in my relationship with my husband we argue over finances and life goals. He has developed severe mental illness issues and is jealous of other men in general.”
Set aside the LO for a moment. What is keeping you with your husband when it’s clear that it is a very lopsided marriage. At least it doesn’t sound as though you can point to any area where he is your partner and is pulling his weight and providing you with support in other areas besides the bedroom. Don’t get me wrong, that’s a lot of fun, but there is so much else when there is a household and children.
” By accomplished I mean he has a college degree, owns a house, had a good career as an engineer, is able to travel around the world.”
You didn’t mention if he is in a relationship with someone. Does this mean he isn’t? For someone who is such a great guy, isn’t that a little odd? I’m not saying it isn’t possible but that sounds so awesome on paper that it makes me wonder what he lacks.
Your husband may be severely mentally ill, but that doesn’t mean he may not have pegged LO correctly all those years ago. A good therapist (not a lousy one) can really help you unravel your thoughts.
If you could get a therapist for yourself to help you work out details, that would be a good start.
Hi TornTexan, and welcome!
You are right that the worst way to shake off LO would be to contact him via FB! From what you’ve written about your story, it sounds as though LO is serving as your “what if” fantasy, and a nice source of dreamy distraction from the trials of everyday life (until the daydreams become intrusive thoughts…).
Really, the likeliest way to shake him off is to figure out what LO represents to you, and why that is missing from your marriage. It does sound like your husband is insecure, and that may be linked into your successes and why you are attracted to the idea of a more secure and (apparently) more successful man. But, this is armchair psychoanalysis – the only surefire way I know of for managing limerence is to focus on your life and what you want it to be like. Then figure out what steps you could take to get from where you are to where you want to be. I call this “purposeful living“, and it’s my general cure all method 🙂
One other thing to keep in mind when fantasising about LO is that “success” can be a slippery idea. I’ve recently learned that someone I admired for the stability of their partnership with their wife is now getting divorced. There are other people involved (on both sides, as it happens).
We none of us know for sure what’s going on in other people’s worlds.
Thank you Lee and DrLimerence.
Lee, the LO is married, on his second wife and has a kid. I’m still with my husband because I love him and I am loyal and although he has mental issues I don’t want to abandon him.
DrL, “What would you do with the knowledge of you had it?” I don’t know, maybe my mind would be at ease because the relationship was validated or I would know that I sensationalized the relationship for more than it was. The weirdest part about this whole thing is that I hadn’t thought about this person in years and I am starting to understand that this is just a phase.
Y’all have given me a lot to think about. I really appreciate your feedback, more than you know. I have always kept this bottled up. I have never been to see a therapist and I think this is where I need to start. I’ve been reading so much on this forum and for some reason I feel a heavy weight has been lifted because I have an answer to the age old question, “What’s wrong with me?” Ultimately, there is nothing wrong with me, I’m just not in the place I want to be right now and I’ve been using my LO as a coping mechanism as I raise him on a pedestal I’ve been digging a deeper hole for my husband. My husband has issues but he is a family man and is a great dad to our girls, he helps out aroun d the house, goes to the grocery store and does the most thoughtful things for me. He works but money is inconsistent in the winter season. I would like him to go back to college as he would only need 1 year. We just need to get individual help through a therapist, it’s hard to make the first step but I know it is necessary. Thank y’all so much.
My husband is currently deep in limerence with another married woman he found on his on-line game. He happened to be there for her during a tough time in her life. She fell in love with him and he acknowledged the love. D-Day was over a month ago and he continues to be obsessed with her… constantly checking her Facebook, looking back at texts/chats they’ve had. They are in daily contact. He often leaves the house to get “a kid break” so he can call her. He has told me that her husband knows about the affair, but he didn’t care. He also has told me that they continue to say that they love each other and that they are just friends who talk daily about life. I have done my best to not let it bother me. I know that their relationship with self destruct one day. She has no intention of leaving her husband, so I can assume that the constant texting/chatting will get old and she will want it to end. I hope so! He loves her and me and he says he doesn’t want to hurt either of us, but doesn’t know what he wants right now. He is making some effort to be nicer to me. To make sure he says ‘I love you” and kisses me goodbye. Has anyone had any success waiting it out… until the limerence ends on its own?
He’s eating cake and kibbles. That’s not love, that’s selfish and mean.
Mr. Lee disclosed and he took active steps to avoid her and the siren song his hormones were singing. That is demonstrating loving behavior. Your husband is saying the words but his actions are what matter.
I rather doubt her husband knows about the relationship.
Try http://www.chumplady.com
Sounds like it. I doubt that her husband full knows about my husband and her. Her husband actually got mad once when they were on a date night and she was texting my husband! She said he didn’t remember who DH was. My husband responded with “focus on your time with your husband.” I guess there’s hope or he didn’t want to get caught.
He doesn’t want to commit to your marriage. Drop the rope. Consult a lawyer and a therapist. Get tested for STI’s too.
He’s treating you disrespectfully and for your own sanity you need to shut it down.
I know this is good general advice for a betrayed spouse, Lee, but I don’t think you can actually catch anything other than computer viruses through online gaming 🙂
Hi Lisa,
I have to agree with Lee and Sharnhorst on this – his behaviour is not reasonable. Did he disclose, or did you find out yourself? For most people, marriage means not having a friend who you declare your love for daily, while neglecting your children and wife. Unless this was all agreed beforehand (i.e. responsible poly), it’s a straight up emotional affair.
I can understand the impulse to wait it out, on the basis that the limerence is a temporary bout of madness, but it’s perfectly possible to be limerent but still live up to your commitments and be a decent spouse and parent. The key thing is for the limerent to recognise that the limerence is a problem to be solved, and that they should be working with their spouse and against the LO to solve that problem. He’s not doing that.
I don’t want to come across all finger-wagging. I can totally understand the instinct to give him some time to come to his senses, but there is a larger danger for you. Watching your husband behave like this is very likely to erode your respect for him (and it won’t be great for your self respect either). Once you lose respect for your spouse – especially when they are acting in a way that is disrespectful to you – odds of recovering the marriage drop precipitously.
It’s probably time to assert your red lines, and make clear to him that you are done with accommodating his dithering. He should make his choice, not take you for granted while he woos his gaming “friend”.
You only have his say-so that they’ve never met in person. It’s not as though several states is a barrier in the age of airplanes.
He made arrangements to meet her and her children, with your (pl) children. That was a planned rehearsal for playing house together. Plus they were going to involve children.
That is really low.
“Once you lose respect for your spouse”
Which her husband has done as evidenced by his refusal to lose his girlfriend and address his issues. His entitlement isn’t a good sign.
Hmm, interesting point here – the difference between disrespecting someone (i.e. treating them as though their feelings don’t matter) and losing respect for them. I think it’s possible to respect someone in terms of admiring their character – i.e. recognising that they are an admirable person – and still treating them disrespectfully (they might even be linked, in that shady people will deliberately try to undermine admirable people).
What I was driving at was the issue of an admirable person seeing their spouse for what they are (a shady cheater) and feeling disdain or contempt. No easy way back from that. Probably better to walk away.
Have you read DrL’s blog on Emotional Affairs? DrL also has some blogs for SOs.
Where is this woman? Your husband’s story sounds a lot like mine with respect to meeting the LO online. My emotional affair was entirely virtual. The difference was once I realized where it was going, I tried to get out of it. The site is littered with posts about it.
My LO was 2500 miles away. But, at its height, I was trying to figure out how to get to her. Since I didn’t disclose to my SO and have no intent to ever do so, pulling that off without revealing myself was impossible without crossing a line to outright betrayal and I abandoned the idea. You don’t know for sure she won’t leave her husband, and even if she doesn’t, it doesn’t mean she won’t advance an affair with your husband. Do their respective jobs allow for clandestine meetings?
Don’t bet on it getting old. If he’s anything like I was, he’s living for those texts and chats and he’s bummed when it’s not her. Even 2500 miles away, I would wake up and swear I could feel her in the room. My phone would be on silent in another room and I’d wake up within 3 minutes of an email from her.
You have to decide if his behavior is acceptable or not and what you’re willing to do about it. Your first Limerent Experience can be like a tiger getting a taste for people. If he likes this one, there’s a real good chance he’ll like the next one. Even if this one implodes, the next one may not.
Have you considered seeing a marriage counselor? Go in telling him or her that your husband is having an emotional affair, it’s time for a “come to Jesus” talk, and you want it done in front of a neutral third party.
You can’t do this alone. Limerence is a bitch but he has to decide who and what’s important to him. All limerents with SOs have to confront that.
It’s an emotional affair all done on-line. She lives several states away. However, had I not trusted my gut, they were going to meet each other last month and have her kids and my kids in tow. He asked to take the kids to amusement park about 13 hours away to meet her and her kids. When I asked if her husband would be there, he said no, he had to work. I made sure I was included in the plans, since he was confident that he could do the drive by himself. They had planned on getting a hotel room next to each other so the kids could play. After D-Day that trip was cancelled! I feel sick to my stomach even thinking that if they had met, I would be dealing with a sexual affair even though he swear there no way they could have pulled it off with 8 kids around! Bull honky!
I have suggested getting a marriage counselor or even meeting with our pastor, but he says he doesn’t want to talk to anyone.
This whole situation truly stinks!
If he doesn’t want to talk to someone, you should. You owe it to yourself and your children.
Personally, I recommend an outside therapist. As well-meaning as clergy are, there are areas outside of their expertise and clergy representing the church may have an entirely different agenda than yours; preservation of the marriage at all costs, for example. Forgiveness and tolerance have their limits. Watch out for those with anybody you talk to.
I attended a church in which they excommunicated a woman for adultery. I was impressed since they put their money where their mouth was. I’d never seen that in any church before. My wife thought the congregation was being harsh and judgmental. She was more of the preservation at all cost mindset.
Also, if you do take a stand, it’s possible he’ll weaponize your children and try to blame you for it. If he’s willing to continue the affair knowing how it hurts you now, it’s not a great leap to make you the villain with the kids.
It does stink.
I do have one neutral friend I have confided in. Without her help and encouragement, I would probably not be here. Those very dark feelings have subsided, but can resurface at any time.
I don’t think he is fully aware that I know how much time he spends chatting with her. I catch him checking FB and their messages without him noticing that I’m watching. Nor will I tell him, because then he will just alter his behavior and be more sneaky. That’s what happened after I confronted him about his friend. He deleted their texts and chats.
He’s in it so deep that when I called what he was doing an affair, he said “affair?” Yes! When a married person tells someone else’s wife that you love them, and you are hiding the relationship, that’s an affair!
“The key thing is for the limerent to recognise that the limerence is a problem to be solved, and that they should be working with their spouse and against the LO to solve that problem. He’s not doing that.” Yes, that is the problem! Neither of them think this is bad behavior. They are just being friends and you can’t tell them otherwise.
I’m so glad you have a friend to support you.
Yeah, I don’t doubt that is what they say. Observing what he (they) do is where theory meets reality. They already planned one tryst behind your back.
When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
He says that she won’t leave her husband and he encourages her to work on her marriage and she says the same thing to my DH. When I asked him what she thinks about the affair, he said that she thinks he is being a jerk doing what he is doing to some who loves him so much (me). Still, that’s not enough to get him to realize that he needs to stop.
Although I have no idea what they chat about now, I can tell that he is pursuing her more than she is him. The length of his chats to her are lengthy as apposed to hers which usually is a word or a short phrase. I’m hoping that she is getting tired of him! The constant texts/chats ALL day long! I’m sure it’s getting hard to hide it all. I’m hoping that she gets caught by her husband soon!
I’ve had the crazy thoughts of contacting her husband and letting him know what’s going on, but I’m afraid it will backfire and they will split, thus giving my husband the opportunity to move forward.
All day long isn’t good for his job or bottom line either. Others tire of towing his line. If he owns his own business it may be showing signs of neglect via the bottom line.
Maybe she’s tired of him because she has a new dalliance.
He says things in between chatting and texting another woman. Behind your back. Why do you believe what he’s telling you while he’s having an affair?
He’s behaving like an entitled adolescent but worse. He can get fired for time-theft and drag your family down with him.
Watch his walk. He can say anything but what he does matters.
Really, it’s time for you to seek outside help.
Have you checked on the family finances? I would.
Urgh. He’s responsible for his behavior. Always. Do you want to spend one more second monitoring his actions? Aren’t you tired of it?
Thank you Lee, Schanrhorst, DrLimerence and all for the advice and support!
I am one of the few that does believe that we can get through this. However, he will need to want to. I’m assuming because he is still here, there is a little hope in recovery. He isn’t treating us badly, he is being nicer and more helpful. It could all be fake. Either way, if he stays or leaves, my heart has already gone through the heartbreak, so him leaving won’t break it any further.
Yes, I’m getting tired of it all.
I do believe their relationship is coming to an end. She doesn’t say much to him and he has told her so. Something about if she wants him to leave. He ask if her husband got ahold of her phone. I couldn’t see her answer. Maybe one of her kids saw the texts or is wondering why mommy chats so much with another guy when daddy is not home.
Do you think he will tell me that their relationship is over? I’m sure I’ll be able to tell by his lack of sneaky behavior.
“Do you think he will tell me that their relationship is over? I’m sure I’ll be able to tell by his lack of sneaky behavior.”
You’ll be able to tells something changed but maybe not what exactly. Are they Facebook friends? Have you looked behind her wall? When LO #4 sent me a friend request, I told my wife since the arrival of a redhead I’d known for 5 yrs sending me a friend request 6 months after she moves out on her BF would raise an eyebrow. My wife told me I should accept and went to DEFCON 4. All her antennae went up. If I was behind LO #4’s wall, so was my wife.
Have you had a heart-to-heart talk with him. I mean, have you directly confronted him about this? I can see several questions to ask him. I recommend you ask them in front of someone or in a public place. Also, if do you live in a single party or two party conversation recording jurisdiction. If it’s one, record his answers.
Ask him flat out, “What do you want out of this? If you could work this out any way you’d like, what would that be?” After he answers, one of your questions could be, “What’s in this for me and why should I trust you?
See what he says.
“Yes! When a married person tells someone else’s wife that you love them, and you are hiding the relationship, that’s an affair!”
Yes, when you are married and tell another woman you love them, and you are hiding the relationship, that’s an affair!
Seriously though – go through the finances very carefully. Do you have an IRA? All yours? Fund it. You are trusting a liar not to hurt you further emotionally and financially. That’s a bad bet.
If this blows apart and he does paint you as the bad guy – embrace the role. Tell the kids that having a girlfriend AND a wife is unacceptable.
“Do you think he will tell me that their relationship is over? I’m sure I’ll be able to tell by his lack of sneaky behavior.”
No and I wouldn’t be surprised if he has another one lined up. He doesn’t strike me as someone who is limerent. He comes across as a garden variety cheater. He wants Sparkles AND he wants stability, security, fidelity, spousal perks, someone else to raise the children and social standing provided by you and the institution of marriage.
Ditto for her. If she had the courage of her convictions, she would either invest the time into seeing if her marriage can be repaired, or she would pack up and leave. Planning a try-out with another man, using kids as a smoke screen and deliberately leaving her husband in the dark is someone who is no prize either.
How many hours a day do you spend monitoring his online activities? How many hours do you spend worrying about his activities? Do you have any idea how many hours of company time he wastes pursuing this woman? I hope you have financial resources set aside in your name alone and you aren’t completely dependent upon him financially.
You’re in a hard situation and I’m sorry about that. His lack of shame isn’t a good thing. Guilt is easy. Guilt is answering only to yourself. Shame is acknowledging to others that you “messed up”.
Yes, guilt is easy, especially when you suppress it. He has told me he was sorry, but I think he was sorry for the pain he has caused me and probably for me finding out.
I do have funds secured in my name only. Plus, his family will make sure to take care of me and the kids, if needed. If they only knew what he is doing! SMH
I don’t spend hours checking on him. I see what I see. For his work, he work on his own and gets whatever project he has done. There is a lot of time sitting and waiting for the next step.
While I wouldn’t rule this out, I think there is another common syndrome that could fit. A spouse who is so comfortable and complacent in the marriage that they don’t really even think of their partner as an independent person any more. Like they are such an integral part of a shared life that it doesn’t even occur to the cheater that their behaviour could jeopardise the marriage. So when limerence comes along they are so starstruck that they just do what they feel like, assuming the spouse should just carry on as before.
I mean, it’s still super insulting at one level, but somehow less devious/calculating that a serial cheater that’s getting a kick out of the deceit.
Either way, this is arguing over split hairs when it comes to the impact on Lisa and her kids – so, one for the moral philosophers.
“I mean, it’s still super insulting”
Yes, it is. Please don’t try to negate or minimize it.
Chumplady is not the I Ching of all knowledge about relationship dynamics, Lee. She has a very clear focus on toxic cheaters, which is a Good Thing, and I am glad her site exists in the world. But it’s possible to get a little drunk on it.
It’s the same problem with therapy – if your perspective explains everything, it’s ideology not wisdom.
There is a difference between heedlessness and nastiness.
Lisa,
It’s beyond insulting. It’s an indirect attack on your self-respect and it sounds like you have some.
Self-respect is probably the single most important thing we possess as individuals. Once you lose it or surrender it, it can be really hard to get back. I didn’t cut off my ex, LO #2, until she attacked my self-respect. Once she did that, I lost my trust in her and she went beyond redemption.
It’s bad enough that you’re losing respect for her husband, it will be worse if you lose respect for yourself. Don’t let that happen.
I meant, “It’s bad enough that you’re losing respect for your husband, it will be worse if you lose respect for yourself. Don’t let that happen.”
“So when limerence comes along they are so starstruck that they just do what they feel like, assuming the spouse should just carry on as before”
That’s exactly my situation! Pretty much, “tough luck, she’s going to be my friend.” He told her that he doesn’t have friends (my fault), so LO felt even more sorry for him and that he should have friends of the opposite. It’s okay. Ugh.
Right. We’re useful appliances. When we’re no longer useful or suddenly we remind them we are individuals who can act independently, a bad spouse does what your husband is doing, Lisa.
Serious question – have you checked out chumplady? Regardless of his motivations, his behavior sucks and you have options beyond enduring it.
I made it very clear to Mr. Lee (who admittedly is braver than many spouses and brought it up), but he still had to deal with the situation and the fallout from his actions. His were nowhere NEARLY as awful as your husband’s and he still has had to deal with it!
Boundaries Lisa. You het to have and enforce them. You can’t control his actions but you can enforce your boundaries and you should. For your own sake now and in the future.
I would give someone else authority to make medical decisions on your behalf rather than your husband. If you were in a car wreck, or had a stroke today – would you trust him with your life?
Dr. L. –
If Lisa C. would be interested in a private discussion with me, I am comfortable with you providing her with the email address that I use here.
“He happened to be there for her during a tough time in her life. She fell in love with him and he acknowledged the love.”
What did they bond over? What appealed to him (i.e., what was the glimmer?) Is he a fixer/rescuer?
I attached to LO #4 because I sensed she was unhappy and certain types of unhappy women were a vulnerability for me. I thought I could provide something she needed that her BF wasn’t at no risk, and she liked it. When her relationship collapsed and she, things got really messy. The thing was, she never went after me and, in the end, she did the right thing and said goodbye. My wife sensed something was up and flat out asked me, “Is she after you?” Since I didn’t think so, I was able to honestly answer “I don’t think so.” Had my wife phrased that question differently, that conversation could have gotten very uncomfortable very quickly.
It may not make any difference in the outcome but you’ll have an idea of what you’re up against. Only 11% of any iceberg is visible above the surface and it’s not what you see that sinks you.
“…her relationship collapsed and she reached out….”
“Ask him flat out, “What do you want out of this? If you could work this out any way you’d like, what would that be?” After he answers, one of your questions could be, “What’s in this for me and why should I trust you?”
Very good questions to ask! It might be time to address it again. We talked about 2 weeks ago, he did not want to talk. This is when I found out my flaws according to him. I told him that I would work on them in hopes that he would want to work on the marriage, but he said he doesn’t know what he wants. That’s always the response. When I told him he could freely leave he said no. I asked him, if she was to leave her husband would he leave? He said maybe.
She is so perfect in his eyes, despite being a cheater herself, who would do the same to him once their fantasy life came to an end…you know, having to deal with the repetitive and mundane things of every day life. Plus, he is just as flawed and bringing that into a new marriage, is cause for failure.
I have checked her FB page…it’s set to private, so I can only see so much. Plenty of ♥️ from my DH on her photos. I also managed to find her hubby on FB, although be is not active.
I do believe it is time to set boundaries. I don’t want to give an ultimatum, because from what I’ve read it can just draw him closer to her, even though she is starting to pull away (I think).
Can you direct me where to look on Chumplady? Not sure where to start.
Self respect…yes I still have it and I won’t let him take it. He, other the other hand, seems to have lost his in the midst of the EA.
He came to her rescue. They bonded over the game and just everyday stuff. They could openly talk about their spouses and their flaws.
It was those limerence feelings that bonded them as well. She understood him and likewise. The euphoria of being in love again with someone you can talk freely with. It was easier to start over with someone rather than face reality and try to fix the marriage, because you know only the SO is flawed not the cheaters!
Yeah, it’s great fun to trash the spouse. So much easier than discussing it with them and maybe, possibly, facing up to one’s own shortcomings within the relationship too.
I’m really glad you have your own money. Don’t ever count on in-laws to help out. Not even for the sake of the kids. Better to be pleasantly surprised if they do so, then left in a real pickle if they don’t.
Sorry. I hope he pulls himself together soon and owns his behavior.
Lisa C.,
http://www.chumplady.com
You may find today’s post of great interest.
Go through “Stupid shit cheaters say” too. I have a feeling you may recognize some of his recent utterances.
Lisa –
I was using my phone earlier and it’s not as easy for me to navigate as a real computer. Try these two in addition to today’s submission.
https://www.chumplady.com/2012/04/the-unified-theory-of-cake/
https://www.chumplady.com/2013/07/real-remorse-or-genuine-imitation-naugahyde-remorse/
“I would give someone else authority to make medical decisions on your behalf rather than your husband. If you were in a car wreck, or had a stroke today – would you trust him with your life?”
Yes, I do trust him with my life. Besides what’s worse than the life I’m in now? I’m already heartbroken. Heaven would be better.
That’s your call. What’s worse? I can think of a lot of things, but I’m not in your shoes. Different situations and lives.
Well, I am sure there are worse things. I hope I don’t have to go through them.
Thank you for the links. I’ll check them out.
Also, I tried to reply earlier but they got stuck somewhere. They may show up, with links.
Akismet wins?
Go to ChumpLady, scroll to bottom of page, read “The Unified Theory of Cake” and “Reconciliation and Entitlement”.
You may nod in recognition. Or maybe not.
I see and yes, I was nodding!
So, Lee what is your story? Are you still with Mr. Lee? Did you two work it out?
I see and yes, I nodded.
Lee, what is your story? Did you and Mr. Lee stay together?
Yes, we’re together. He told me that his co-worker was in his head, he didn’t understand, made a few stupid statements, but before she left he came up with a plan to minimize her effect on him. Avoided her as much as possible, stopped normal co-worker chit-chat because FOR HIM it lit up his brain in uncontrollable ways and he hated the loss of control, etc. I offered suggestions when asked for them, found the term limerence and he thought it fit well. He did the heavy lifting though and after an initial knee-jerk defensive statement, he owned his behavior.
He was highly embarrassed by the whole thing. It’s scattered about on this site. I’m on my phone so it makes searching tough.
In the end, he didn’t do anything way over the line. There was one instance where he stuck part of one foot over it, but he pulled back after we discussed it and I pointed out how he was on a moral and ethical precipice personally and professionally. He reflected and agreed.
Miss LO is gone. No contact has continued to the best of my knowledge.
The big difference is he came to me. I had a suspicion that he took notice of her before the big reveal but I had no idea how much time and energy was expended.
There were some crappy days though. Our anniversary was pretty bleak last year. He gets a chance to not make it suck this year.
Biggest thing is he came to me because he didn’t like what was happening and wanted it to stop.
Lee,
This provides an interesting look at disclosure. How did Mr. Lee actually make the disclosure? What was his reason for the disclosure?
The reason I ask is because I didn’t disclose. I don’t want the idea that there’s anyplace I’d rather be or anyone else I’d rather be with to be in the same time zone with my wife. I never want to give her a reason to regret taking a chance on me. That I would knowingly potentially do that over a woman who offered me nothing is truly scary.
Also, at the time, my wife was in therapy to address the issues that had led me to consult a divorce lawyer. I still believe that telling her that would have sabotaged that effort and possibly caused her to relapse.
There are some details that I won’t share publicly as it would make it easy for him to recognize himself IF he ever started digging into limerence beyond what I told him. I never shared this site, for example.
It’s been more than a year, so some things are a bit fuzzy now but it boiled down to he came to realize he was preoccuppied with her and it made him confused and unhappy. He didn’t know WHY and while on the one hand it feels good (hormonal high), on the other hand it felt like a betrayal of me and our marriage. So he disclosed AND wanted to know wth was going on, help with how to deal with it, etc. There was no blame-shifting or putting me down. His walk matched his talk. He also came up with strategies to minimize contact with her and the effects she had on him.
Yes, there were some unpleasant days (anniversary) but mostly once he knew what was happening he could address it and he did so. It did send me into an emotional tailspin, but compared to other things I’ve dealt with during my life it wasn’t going to break ME, although he did say one stupid thing during disclosure that almost led to my pulling the plug on our marriage. When I repeated what he said and laid out that at that point, the decision was in MY hands he said it was like a bucket of ice water AND a swift kick to his frontal lobes.
“What have I DONE?!” was the phrase he used. As well as, “Are you totally insane, (Mr. Lee’s name)? A complete moron?! MAKE IT RIGHT.”
So we have carried on.
There’s a lot more backstory but again, those are identifying details he would recognize if he went looking and it would hurt his feelings to discuss them on an open board. I doubt he will ever look, but I don’t want to shred his dignity or mine at this time.
Oh, yes, the possibility of chasing LO was in his head as a nice theory, but disclosure to a real live person who had had his six for decades popped it like a soap bubble. He said he had sort of talked himself into believing I didn’t care, that there would be no emotional fallout, etc. It was weird. He wanted it to stop and continue but mostly stop.
Something about disclosing and how torn he felt before and while telling me (guilt & shame alongside his castles in the air) simply made 90% of it go away.
He was truly horrified. He was so accustomed to my being able to roll with and handle everything that it never occurred to him that I would be so upset. I cried (briefly). I cry so rarely he can count the number of times on both hands.
Lisa – I’m so sorry. I wish you were vehemently shaking your head. Please continue to pay attention when your Spidey-senses tingle.
Protect yourself and your kids. Be the sane parent and adult, regardless of how you proceed.
Well, I’m glad that Mr. Lee came to you and disclosed what he was feeling. That’s one thing I don’t have. I have to ask about certain things to get answers.
I believe DH disconnected from me so much that he thought having a LO was his right to happiness. That’s why he is hanging on to her still. I heard that the LO effects can last Fri. 3-36 months. I sure hope it ends soon rather than later.
I guess you could say that I am the LO, even though my feelings have been equally as limerent for him.
We met through a fb group and bonded over the fact that we both came out of very similar religious experiences. He had reached out about a post that I had written. There was an instant ease to our conversations. Our communication just flowed, which was unusual for me as I typically have my guard up against men who reach out via messenger.
But after just a few days of chatting, I found myself shocked to realize I was falling for him. Call me shallow, I had never crushed on someone I had never met in person before.
Then, before I ever got a chance to tell him, and since he was feeling it, too, his guilt forced him to come clean with the fact that he was married; albiet separated.
Honest to God, we tried to cut it off right then, but turned out that both of us were already so pulled in that it felt impossible to stop. (All consuming limerence!)
We would spend literally entire days talking, sharing values, life stories/experiences, secrets; you name it. Our lives are so paralleled that it felt like fate. Mirror images, if you will.
I had never had a “soulmate” experience, but that is what this seemed to be. We just instinctively got one another. Our intuition towards each other was off the charts to the point of feeling like we were cosmically connected.
It was all so new for both of us. It was exhilarating and energizing and there were days that we both found ourselves asking, “Is this what it feels to be “love sick”?
If we weren’t talking/chatting online, we were consumed with thoughts of the other. We sent songs to each other on spotify, that over time, added up to the hundreds. Spotify actually became a life line of sorts. Or maybe it was just keeping the pain going, who knows. It definitely became it’s own obsession. When we were in NC mode, we were constantly checking spotify to see if the other had posted.
I am honest enough to recognize that not being able to see each other in person was feeding the obsessiveness. Half of the relationship was based on stories in our heads of what it would be like to be IRL with the other. We fantasized together about the day it would happen.
And then, like most tragic love stories, we had a bomb thrown on us. His wife found out about me and decided she wanted him back –with promises to work on herself and the marriage.
It threw us both in to despair. His values would not allow him to divorce her and he started really battling what he should do. She had originally left him, so there was that side of it. After 25 years, of course he had love for her, and yet his feelings for me seemed stronger than he had ever experienced with her or anyone else. How could he go back and be happy with her now? Especially given the problems they had been having the last few years.
Throughout that time, it seemed like every other day, he would “end” things between us to focus on figuring out what to do, but neither one of us seemed capable of letting go. It became this crazy roller coaster ride of emotions. The highs and lows pulling us both along and tossing us back and forth. Pure torture.
His sense of duty competing with his desire to feel true love. He couldn’t decide what to do and so we were all caught in limbo.
I don’t believe it was his intention, but I did feel used. His S.O saw an attractive desirable woman want her husband and it made her re-think the relationship and the things she had been taking for granted.
I ended up being the catalyst for them to get back together.
Worse yet, I have not been getting anything in my life accomplished. I have no one else to depend on for income. I am only 46 and yet had just had a stroke a couple months before we met. My only focus should be in trying to get back on my feet.
I hadn’t heard of Limerence until recently, from a youtube video he sent me about being in love with someone else while you are married, from a christian perspective. Limerence was mentioned but not expounded on and mostly it was referenced in the context of it not being “real love”, and of course the video was very much in favor of working the marriage out.
I’ll admit, not what I wanted to hear. And frankly, I was offended from the implication that what we shared was not real.
I do have an open mind, though, and so I started researching. That is how I came across your article.
At this point, he is still struggling with his feelings for me, but has made the definite decision to commit again in his marriage. Last I heard she hadn’t moved back in yet, but that has probably changed. We have been “trying” to go NC.
My thoughts still get consumed with him, but it has gotten more manageable.
I have to keep reminding myself that I am living in a fantasy land, imagining a happy ever after that is never going to happen. Fooling myself that, because we are so connected, I am the better woman for him. pshh. I’m an idiot.
Learning about limerence may be the thing that keeps me determined to not contact him again. I have to cut both of us loose from this. It’s too much.
I will say that this relationship has changed me and I am trying to see the good in it, like there was some purpose to it that has yet to be revealed. But maybe that is just the story I want to tell myself.
Although I have never experienced anything quite like *this* relationship, I am a romantic at heart and have been bitten by the “love bug” at different times in my life. (Does that make me a limerent?)
Yet, it’s not just the rush of the romance that I miss. I miss talking to him. He had truly become my closest friend.
At any rate, I am sure my heart will heal in time. If anything like this happens again, at least I am now armed with awareness.. Though I am not convinced limerence is entirely a bad thing, one thing is for sure… no more married men!
Lynnette –
I don’t have any words of wisdom for you, but I can only imagine how painful it is. If you are a believer, you could consider this:
God made your heart, and worked into it the ability to feel these feelings. So to some extent, you are built for limerence, AND you are able to handle the storm and the pain. You’re stronger than you realize. You WILL make it through. God will be with you throughout and if you reach out, will comfort you in your pain.
I actually don’t know if limerence is possible in a married relationship, though. Marriage is certainty and removal of barriers. Limerence seems like it erupts and feeds on potential, on uncertainty, on the rush of ‘what could be’.
I’m struck by the stories on this blog of people who disclosed to their LO and found that the feeling was reciprocated–which immediately ended the LE.
Thanks for the story, you’re an excellent writer.
Thank you for your response- My Limerent Brain is an Idiot.
I am quietly laughing at your screen name, btw. 😉 So true.
I appreciate your words and the reminder. I feel like God has been allowing test after test of my faith for quite some time now. My daughter recently told me, “Mom, you’ve been through so much, more than anyone I know.. but at the same time, God has blessed you and come through for you more than ANY other person I know”.
I am trying desperately to hold on to that.
To find a great love– the stuff books are written about– that’s a blessing. And yet I have only been allowing myself to feel the loss. I need to adjust my mindset.
Then there is the fear, will I find someone again?.. will I even be able to settle after this?
Limerence can be very addicting. In the beginning it can be the thing that bonds you as a couple. The excitement, the rush, the laser focus. And I think most of us experience it to *some* degree when falling in love. But what if I have somehow tied the feelings of limerence to the feeling of falling in love and won’t think it’s real without it?
Yikes. I hope not.
You’re absolutely right in that it is not sustainable in a marriage.
“Too much of a good thing..”
As others have said, we wouldn’t accomplish anything in life if we lived in a state of limerence..
I know that areas of my life have definitely suffered through this time of temporary “madness”.
Hi amber . Please read my full story. I have had a girl friend since 7 years , we studied in the same college. Things were going in a right way, we decided to marry . Before 1 n half year of our marriage which got delayed due to some family problems, i have a got a new friend in another girl. That friendship has crossed the limits and i got connected with her and started comparing her with my gf. Soon i was feeling the new girl is the best and better. I tried to figure out whom to leave but i couldnt take any decision. At that moment of time my old gf got to know my affair and cried a lot. I thought she would commit suicide . To make her cool i said i will only marry her only. i stopped talking to the new girl but i could not stop thinking about her i felt it true love.i even discussed with my parents that now i love the new one not the old, they didnt listen to me instead convinced me to marry the old one. One fine day , the old girl flew from her home for me to marry me… I didnt knew what to do.. all the moral values reminded me that i have to marry hero only.. i married her with painful heart. Now its being 8 months that i have married, i still cant forget the girl i left . Iam deeply in pain, crying inside every second . I want to go and marry the person that am craving now for.. but is this ok? What should i do.please help me🙏
“I am deeply in pain, crying inside every second . I want to go and marry the person that am craving now for.. but is this ok? What should i do.please help me🙏”
Divorce your wife. Neither of you have that much time invested in one another as a married couple and neither one of you deserve to have a marriage where one party or the other isn’t truly in the relationship.
“i even discussed with my parents that now i love the new one not the old, they didnt listen to me instead convinced me to marry the old one.”
Consider it a life lesson. Your parents mean well but this is YOUR life and you now recognize you shouldn’t have married your wife under duress.
Be generous in the divorce, because it is small potatoes now.
Hi Vikram,
Only you get to decide what is OK. The guiding philosophy of this site is that living with purpose is the best protection against limerence (and any of life’s challenges, really). So, you need to think deeply about this. What is it that you want to do with your life? What kind of man do you want to be? What are the most important principles that you want to live by? As an example, here are two ways of looking at your situation:
1) You committed to marriage hastily, before realising which woman you really wanted to be with. A sense of duty, obligation, and the pressure of parents and fiancee have now railroaded you into a marriage in which you are unhappy. Sticking with it would be bad for everyone, and you need to be courageous and end it honourably.
2) You fell in love and became engaged, but then subconscious doubt made you vulnerable to becoming limerent for someone else. You took the advice of parents and committed to your wife, but are now struggling to cope with the limerence that is testing your commitment. Sticking with the marriage is the right thing to do, and you need to be courageous and tackle the limerence.
Neither of those scenarios are correct or incorrect – they only make sense in terms of your true feelings, your life ambitions, the kind of marriage that you want, and the kind of husband and partner you want to be.
Here are a few other thoughts: were you limerent for your wife at the start of your relationship? Are you crying inside every second because of the difficulty you are having in choosing your path, or because you miss the other woman so much? If the other woman was not available (e.g. she married someone else) would you still want to leave your wife? Have you spoken to the other woman about her hopes and plans?
Hope that is some useful food for thought. Whatever you decide, you need to be brave and stick to your purpose.
Best wishes,
Dr L
I believe i am suffering limerance at the age of 63 for somone i had a brief fling with 40 years ago.i have only just discovered this term.i have taken some comfort from reading the above posts.i will add more soonish
I just started researching limerence and wish I knew about it before it got too far but it did. I’m encouraged by all the posts because I thought I was alone and going crazy. In short, I was married 20 years to an amazing woman, still very attractive but caught up in her career. Instead of communicating my unhappiness I went along to get along and fell into a mild depression. I met my LO one night out with friends and instant magic like I hadn’t felt in years. I pursued it, snuck around and had an affair behind my wife’s back. I filed for divorce prematurely and out of nowhere as far as my wife was concerned. She was CRUSHED and moved out of town. I was blinded by the limerence but the guilt I felt about my wife literally drove me to debilitating panic attacks. Textbook Cognitive dissonance. I bounced back and forth between the two women no less than 4 times over the past year and each time they would take me back which actually made me feel worse about myself. I had 2 beautiful women on the inside and out to choose from and it made me miserable. I couldn’t go on like that.
Now, I am reconciling with my wife and hope to remarry because I know my feelings for my LO would eventually fade likely leading to resentment about leaving my wife. My wife still loves my unconditionally and knows everything as I finally started communicating with her instead of lying to try to just keep her happy. I’m one week in with NC with LO and it feels both good and bad. Good that I’ve made the decision but horrible in that I miss the LO to the point of physical illness at times. I’m hoping a few months at most and this will fade like withdrawals from a drug.
Good for you! Being somewhat proud of yourself for this tough decision will help you through the difficult times. It will take longer than we hope it will take but it does get better, in any case, it has to be done.
Oh, Anon – that is so terrible. I’ve mentioned this a few times, but my initial LEs were when I was 19 to about 27. There were two young women I was limerent for, and they both ended up in very embarrassing experiences for me. I was seeing signs that weren’t there, thinking they were interested in me, the whole stupid shebang. It was good experience for when LO3 appeared 19 years later, after I was married with two kids. Even though I cognitively knew what was going on (though I didn’t have a word to fit the experience), the pull to LO3 was just incredible. I’ve seen her 1 time in 10 months and I’m still thinking of her every day.
LEs are an awful emotional addiction. I wonder what “need we’re filling” when we have them.
Last time I disclosed my feelings to a LO, through Facebook message. It was impulsive and chaotic, it was volcano of words waiting too long inside me. And God helped me that this guy, our family friend, my husband’s friend didn’t tell my husband, cause I would be destroyed now, we would probably be devorced now, my kids would suffer greatly, cause there is no man on Earth who has as much love as my husband.
But now, it’s happening again. It’s colleague from work, also married. He is a bit wild, energetic, a bit nervous and unpredictable, and, no, he is not interested in me, though every bloody cell from my sick brain tells me he is, that there is some platonic connection, I am THE ONE, and other stupid thoughts…and yesterday in all my misery I counted it lasts for 3 years, so he would probably hint me he was mad after me by now.
Today I found the excuse to write him an email and after his cold response I felt the need to tell him what I feel because I think it could give me relief. I didn’t but
I NEED HIM TO BRAKE THE SPELL?
Help me
Hi Ljuba,
The desire to disclose is often an attempt to get reciprocation or at least some certainty about how they feel, but it will likely never come. As you’ve found, it just creates more problems and doesn’t even bring emotional relief.
There’s a couple of posts about disclosure on the site that might help clarify things. But, the basic message is: you can’t get relief from LO, you have to find it within yourself.
https://livingwithlimerence.com/2018/05/06/when-to-disclose/
https://livingwithlimerence.com/2018/05/12/when-not-to-disclose/
Thank you very much,
I had a nice almost a month long period without obsessing about this person, now I feel it’s creeping on me again, i hate the fact he went by me but didn’t say hello…he uses this situation where we all have to wear masks, so he can pretend he didn’t see me. And now he went to vacation, i can see through e mail automatic answer…uh, why am I so desperate to find is he thinking oh me, does he like me, it’s awfull
I am rather nervous about posting a reply here, as I totally dismissed the idea of Limerence when I should have been taking note very carefully. My limerence experience grew from a time of extreme stress and a desire to find something or someone who was far removed from the source of that stress. At the time I was a church minister living a very normal and average family life.
My problem was that my LO reciprocated entirely in kind, and we fell for each other like teenagers. I had never experienced the rush or emotion and hormones which I did on meeting her. The upshot was that I walked away from my family and my ministry and into a new life with my LO.
I just wish I had a clear enough head two years ago to understand what was happening, as now I have to live with the guilt of what I did to my wife and children, and what potentially this means for my new partner, our new daughter and my stepson. To be honest, it’s a bloody mess, and I just needed to share it in a place where others may understand.
Charlie, sorry to hear what you have been going through. The greatest value of limerence is all the lessons we can learn from it. So many folks here have unwittingly embarked on a journey of self discovery. Knowledge of the mechanics our inner workings gives us power to make better future choices. There is so much good information packed into this site to explore and absorb.
Even drastic mistakes can hold value if we can extract understanding. They offer the possiblity to atone for past harmful behavior. It is never too late for sincere, heartful apologies and significant, meaningful reparations. That doesn’t absolve us, but we are obliged to try and mend wherever we can. At the very least we can commit to better actions in the future. Managing crises or lurching from one to the next is not the best way to learn and evolve, but we owe it to ourselves, those that we love and to our whole society to commit to our own evolution. When we realize everything is upended in our lives, we can be open to new ways of thinking, being and doing. If we choose to.
You will find some good advice, support and non-judgement here and lots of fascinating stories. Best of luck on your journey.
Charlie – Welcome! I would ditto many of the things Allie and Bert have said.
I’m sorry to hear of your painful situation. Honestly, at the height of my current LE I would have left my SO for my LO. Although there were some mutual feelings my LO made the decision for both of us by walking away. She decided to make a more formal commitment to her SO. Now we are NC.
The thing is, especially after finding out about limerence, I know there is some fundamental stuff I need to work on. This is the case whether my SO stay together or not. That expression “wherever you go, there you are” comes to mind. I’m a serial limerent so even if things had worked out with my LO I still have my limerent brain and whatever psychological stuff that may contribute to my limerence.
I’m glad you are here. Thank you for sharing.
Hi Charlie and welcome!
Firstly, I am so sorry that you are suffering and struggling so much with guilt. Such an incredibly uncomfortable feeling. From your description it sounds like your lizard brain took the controls for a while and drove you off a cliff. I think many limerents on this site with reciprocating LOs have fantasised about, and can identify with, what you did but we were lucky enough to have discovered this site in time to take back control and hit the brakes. Your story provides a good lesson to me about the consequences of that so thank you for your honesty.
My gut feel for your situation, and this is without knowing much detail so apologies of I am way of course here, is that you have to make the best of it. For me, guilt is an emotion that should be felt fully, and then set aside and harnessed – try not to let it destroy you and those around you. Assuming your relationship with LO is OK, because you have made your choice, focus on being the best partner to your LO, the best father to your children and the most supportive and fairest ex-husband that you possibly can be. If that is not enough, maybe find a community project of some sort to get involved in? And most importantly, be kind to yourself. All humans are inherently flawed and good people often cause harm as a side effect of pursuing their own happiness. Accept this side of yourself and take it as a lesson in the true nature of all people. Compassion towards ourselves provides an internal well of compassion that can then be directed outwards to others. You still deserve happiness so try to shift your focus from past mistakes to living well right now, and building a good future for you and your family. Of course it will take time for your ex-wife and children to recover from this, and maybe there will be bitter feelings for a long while – again, accept that with as much equanimity as you can muster, and just be kind and understanding. That is all you can do.
Wishing you well.
Stunning to me that the “textbook” definitions of limerence were a spot-on description of what I was experiencing. And, as simple as that explanation of it is, it’s been messing with my head to a degree that I’m struggling to work my way through it – because I have a unique-ish(?) situation that binds my hands with my personal integrity. And, I’m curious if anyone has had a similar experience, or knows anything about this – because I feel like a total asshole for even considering
Some background (and I’ll try to leave out irrelevant details/words): My first wife and I were a mismatch that I should’ve realized before we got to the point of a child. Despite that, I have a wonderful adult daughter, so something positive came out of what ended up being several years of getting to the other side of hell (“When you’re going through hell, keep going.”) It’s not relevant what that hell was, save that her (IMHO) “issues” repeatedly bubbled over and onto me. During separation and divorce, I had a long distance relationship that, after about 3 years, I called off because it was going nowhere (well, I was going somewhere – back and forth, but…) Through all of this, I started spiraling down into clinical depression in response to all of this, plus a series of unexpectedly-short bouts of employment, financial difficulties, etc.
At that point, I met online the woman I would end up marrying – fantastic, strong, supportive and, best of all, I gave her permission to call me out when I slid into negative mindsets (I’ll be back to this in a moment), and she kept me going – and by extension, my daughter, who was becoming more and more aware of her mother’s instabilities. During our dating, one thing disclosed to me was her MS – mostly well controlled, and supported by the usual course of MS medicine and, when needed, gram-doses of prednisone.
A few years after our wedding, her MS flared up and began stealing her mobility as well as messing with all the nerve endings in her skin – the net result of *that* has been that, for the last 7.5 years, this has been a sexless marriage, transactional in nature but… Compounding it, In turn, her already tough exterior, combined with her granted-freedom to call me out, began to manifest in her communication style at home – in essence, I felt treated like one of her directs – caused/causes much tension and tendency for me of resentment towards her.
However, she’d supported me (and my daughter) in my many hours of need, so, yes, eyes wide open – I’d gone into this knowing her style and knowing that MS will have an effect, and that I’d ultimately become caregiver. I expected to rack up my “good guy points” thru the end and then go to Chuck E Cheese’s and pick a prize – I may be too old at that point to pretend I’ve got the energy of a man half my age, but damn, regardless, I’m going to fulfill my obligation, to whatever or whenever the end of that obligation will be.
Towards that end, I have a family disposition towards heart disease – wasn’t going to let that take me out, and, since the gym was only about 150 steps from the front door of my apartment building, I’d be even more a fool to not take advantage of it.
The whole thing started slowly with the Spin instructor – about the same age as me, so it was easy to be “adult” and talk platonically about, say, music, before and after the class, and then tech (she’s a developer in the real world), and other things, and, wow… So, I started attending her class as a “regular”. Now, Spin class has beat-driven music and she got into it whole heartedly – and some of the music was more… direct than other music. I perceived from her looks towards me during certain points, and the other little body language statements, and learning more about her with pre- and post-class chatting that, well, maybe this is reciprocated and her energetic nature – was that some flirting I just saw – the alignment of her total head-space towards reality and, honestly, stunningly beautiful, all of this was drip-feeding my attention-starved head and heart. Soon, I was inexplicably hooked…
and completely confused – I knew I wasn’t being rational about it. I wanted to tread carefully, because I wasn’t sure if what I was feeling was reciprocated. But, regardless, I certainly was in no position to consider doing something that would impact my “obligation.”
So, by the time I’d worked up my nerve to talk specifically about all this with her – specifically, about not expecting to come face-to-face with my Chuck E Cheese prize when I could do nothing about it – literally, 2 minutes before I was going to talk with her, one of the managers pulled her to the side for longer than I could hang to talk with her. Later I texted her about getting together outside of there, to get her advice about handling certain things (yes, she knew I’m married, and my obligation therewith) and that I was concerned about perceptions within the gym.
She said she’d been asked if there was something going on. No, she said, besides, she has a love interest outside of here that she keeps private. Much texting later – especially after she relayed that conversation – I came honest with her and put out there how I felt about her, etc, etc.. and told her I’d respect her reality and mine.
And all that nobility did nothing to calm the spiraling in my head about her – until I stumbled upon limerence in a wikipedia article – everything described about limerence was exactly what I was dealing with. “Naming the demon takes away it’s power” or some such – I’m no longer being overwhelmed by it, but I’m left emotionally sensitive, and, ultimately, a little concerned about going to her next regularly scheduled class – I don’t know if going to class on Sunday is any sort of “shooting-myself-in-the-foot” re-ignition of the limerence. Or if rearranging my schedule so that it’s no long possible to attend that class would be an admission of guilt that something occurred.
If anyone’s had this sort of “damned-if-you-do/damed if you don’t” Catch -22, I’d love to get some input.
Yeah, it’s amazing what people around you pick up on. Off the top of my head, I can remember twice where people asked me if there was something going between someone else and me when I didn’t think I was doing anything of note. I’ve picked up on things between people.
My wife is really perceptive. We were at a party. My wife asked if I was attracted to one of the women. I asked her what made her think that. My wife said we’d been married long enough to know I respond when something, or someone, piques my interest.
She’s given you an out. Your relationship is impacting her professionally. You tell her that you don’t want to make things awkward for her and will be attending a different class but make it a different day or time. And, that’s it. Nothing beyond that. If she tries to talk you out of it, all you say is that you’ve made up your mind. Don’t explain and don’t negotiate. Read that last sentence again. And, again.
If anyone else asks, tell them the new class works better for you. It’s technically not a lie.
Scharnhorst, good advice, thank you – already planned to do a version of that. As to affecting her professionally (ie, as a spin instructor, not a developer), I don’t explicitly know one way or the other since her text to me read, in part: “it was brought up casually after I was asked about other “rumblings” going on with different instructors…” and there was no context given as to whether the “rumblings” were either things said by other instructors about what may be perceived between she and me, or other instructors getting too chummy with the members.
Regardless, switching classes is my intent, but a confidante suggested I do one more of her classes, just to push back against the appearance anyone may have that they’d stumbled onto something (that, ultimately, wasn’t there.) I’ll put myself in the back, not front and center and unavoidably in view.
In the midst of post-revelation texting, I’d said to her: “…The fact that so-and-so pulled you aside to talk to you (and held you to wait me out) – that has me mortified that I was so blind to how I must have looked, puppy-dog-eyes and all that. I’m almost embarrassed to show my face at [the gym] – I will, tho, because, well, I need to not let self-inflicted shame get in the way of supporting my reality…” [and more words]
Her reply: “… please don’t feel uncomfortable at the gym..its your space.”
Me: “… I’m sorry for dropping an anvil in the middle of the canoe and adding to [extended family drama she’s on the periphery of]. None of it is urgent, so it can wait.
Please understand: I’m also talking about spin – it’s *your* class and I don’t want my presence there to be an issue. I’ll be there this weekend, just less prominent….”
And no response after that.
So, I’m sitting on my hands, not pestering her, but my head is ready to spin off my neck, between the ups of long-forgotten thrills, and the downs of regrets that I can’t “unring that bell” amidst the swirling and insistent ghosts of previous foot-in-mouth fuckups…
I wish to hell there was a magic pill that would calm all that and not leave me feeling and acting like a lotus-eater at 3am… (and for the record, having been prescribed many of them over the years, I know there isn’t.)
Hi Brad – tough spot spot you’re in there, but you’ve come to the right place. There are lots of people that can empathise with your situation: marriage difficulties + glimmery new person who shows a hint of interest = obsessed. We won’t have your specific issues but broadly the feelings, issues and ultimately solutions remain the same.
You won’t like it, but assuming you want to stay married and fulfil your obligations then that magic pill is no contact with LO. I’m sure there are other spin classes, other gyms, other ways to keep fit. Every interaction you have with her is new data for your brain to compute, analyze and re-run over and over again. Cutting that at source is the best remedy that we have all found.
As I read your story and the details of your texts I kind of felt uncomfortable. Who needs to text their spin instructor? Your messages were very forward, emotional and sorry… but a bit creepy and her responses were very straight forward with no hint of anything other than professionalism.
You’ve caught this pretty early and you have a straightforward solution available to you. Have a go at Dr L’s emergency deprogramming course and see how you feel after that. But no LO contact for a while. You don’t want to freak her out.
You kind of buried the lead. How did she respond when you told her how you felt?
Hi Marcia – I didn’t think I was burying the lede for my post, except that my purpose in posting *was* at the bottom of the post. But, to answer your question: well enough, I suppose – none of her subsequent texts said “F.O. you creep, and don’t bother me anymore…” 😉
Understand, please, the beginning of my post was to set the context for how and why my head and my heart are messed up by this, and then to find out if there were anyone else who is or had been in a similar situation (in which there’s a (self-perceived) obligation to stay in the marriage as caretaker for a debilitated spouse who’s illness-intensified tough exterior would otherwise make an easy decision of whether to remain) and how was that handled? Because I have no freakin’ clue…
I’ve spent a great deal of my life reacting (admittedly, passively) to the chaos of life, sitting as a passive passenger while Reality or others drove my car (so to speak) – now I want the steering wheel and ultimately, to be actively engaged in the pursuit of my own happiness – except for so long, I’ve been minimizing what I want, in deference to the needs of those dependent upon me, that I have no idea what actually makes me happy – longer-term happy, not just the quick hits from McD’s fries with loads of salt and ketchup. Or a Krispy Kreme… hmmm…
But I digress.
Ultimately, I’ll have to make my own decision about what makes me happy and what that means for me and my wife – but regardless of how miserable the MS makes my wife (or how challenged I am to not respond in kind), knowing that my personal integrity, underlying my vows (better/worse, sickness/health, etc.) remains unchallenged by foolish actions is, at a minimum, a source of satisfaction for me – but that’s not “happiness” any more than a soapbox-derby entrant is suitable as a post-wedding vehicle.
I will say this, tho – there’s so much I’m not able to do with my wife, who isn’t able to do those things (because of her MS, in addition to COVID), that something as simple as potential partner who *IS* able to do those things (hello, ms. spin), well… temptation vs. obligation – Unstoppable force, meet my friend, the unmovable object.
The real question, I guess, is how do I prevent the unavailable ms. spin from popping up in my mind, every time my wife groans as she struggles to stand up from a chair by leaning on her walker….
Hi Brad,
You are living in limerence limbo. This isn’t a criticism. I’ve done it myself, but it can waste years of your life. That’s why I asked what your LO said. It may have given you some clarity. I think at some point you have to rip the band-aid off and make a decision. In my opinion, you have 3 options:
1.) Stay with your wife and plug back in to your marriage. That means not ever going back to the exercise place at all. A different instructor doesn’t matter. You’re playing games with yourself. The place reminds you of her. That also means not driving by it, not triggering memories and redirecting thoughts to your family. (I realize none of this is easy.) Are there things you can do with your wife despite her health issues that you two would enjoy, ways to remember the person you married and very much admired?
2.) Have a clandestine relationship with your LO. But here’s a caveat — be VERY, VERY suspicious of an LO who either gives no you answer when you disclose or a vague answer or gives you an answer but proceeds to behave the opposite way. These are flim flammers who either can’t make a decision themselves or just like the attention. They will keep you in limbo indefinitely. If you sense this is the case, you have to remove yourself form the situation and go NC. (Again, not easy.)
3.) Leave your wife to either start over or start over and pursue the LO.
I’m not advocating for any of these options, but give yourself a D-Day — by February 1,2021, for example, I will make a decision — and then stick with it, even if you aren’t feeling it right away. I have been in limbo for almost a year about looking for another job. Finally made a decision and am getting proactive. It does feel better.
Hi Marcia,
I’m sorry – I didn’t mean to come out as sounding dismissive – definitely not.
“Analysis Paralysis” I’ve heard it called – and accurately so – kid in the candy store, told to pick only one…
Interesting feeling, hearing someone else speak (or write) all the considerations that float unspoken through my brain… Also, too, you preceded by several hours an independent friend who made the same suggestion as you did in #3 – set a deadline-date and stick to it.
I need some time to come to terms with making a decision about what I’ll do – a decision like that can’t be rushed, but it *will* need to be made – I can’t continue allowing myself to be, in essence, verbally and emotionally abused by someone who won’t – who can’t – bend a little and compromise… Especially now, since I’m realizing the reality outside of my situation – whatever amount is fantasy – is a lot more pleasant than the reality inside my situation…
Brad,
I didn’t think you were being dismissive. I may have projected too much on to your situation. It’s just that I abhor indecisiveness. I have a male friend who’s been just about to leave his wife — for the last 11 years. He’s married, as is his girlfriend. (His kids are grown.) He and the girlfriend have been discussing leaving their respective spouses for years. It’s like they have a foot in another life but can’t quite pull the trigger. I’d venture to say they don’t want to. Not really. It’s a big risk. There’s no guarantee they’ll be happier on the other side, but it’s not fair to their spouses after all this time. I’m sure my friend’s wife knows something is going on, so there is complicity on her part as well. What I mean is: she could leave, too. Inertia and fear can get the best of us. (I am certainly not immune to either.) Too bad to stay and too good to leave.
Hi,
I have been limering over a girl for a long time. I have been married for 11 years 8 of which I have been having an affair on and off with that woman. Me and my wife have had our resentments with each other but she never faltered, she remained faithful. We have two children of 8 and 2 yrs old.
I have been caught several times, and she has always somehow after lots of begging let me stay in the marriage and take care of them. She is the primary earner of the family and loves me very much. I am very supportive of her and bend over backwards to help smooth out our lives together. I am spontaneous and she is calculative, ying and yang. I have tried to break up with that woman who is 10yrs younger than me, but after breaking up and sometime had passed, I cant help but contact her, and things start off again, and with more vigor and secrecy. The other woman loves me and to a point of self-mutilation of her body because of me, her body is riddled with cuts and marks, because she was disappointed at my decision to leave her for my family. Now after 8 years and a really bad breakup, and a final final pardon from my wife, I started to get my sh*t together. Look for work, learn a new skill, find my passion and pursue it.
Then after a month of no contact, I contacted her and she is now with another man (dating over facebook and not in real life) although she has slept with several men (within the month i rejected her) on account of me rejecting her once again and breaking her heart. Now my wife trusts me again, and the other woman has made contact and is asking me to leave my family and be with her or she will move on with her life and I will regret it for the rest of my life.
I am crazy for this woman because she gives me excitement, sex and great conversation partner. We see eye to eye on a lot of things. If I compare my wife to her, my wife is better in terms of social standing, career, more patient etc.. I cheated on my wife for different reasons of resentment, feeling that I don’t get enough sex, or when we married she was thin and after our first child which was very early on her weight doubled and she developed a 6 months pregnant belly (permanently) and she tell me, its my body, it because like this because I gave birth to our child and you should accept it, or we don’t see eye to eye on many things, our views and characteristics are polar opposites, its what makes us a very good partner combo, but also something that drives me away from her. Also I have never been head over heels in love with my wife. I appreciate her and recognize her and all that we have established together. I have an intense desire to take care of my wife and children. At some point I even proposed a polygamous relationship to her, that let me keep the other person in my life, so I don’t have to go around your back. Obviously she was appalled and we had a really bad argument.
When I get caught, other than the immense guilt I feel, I also feel that I am losing the best part of my life (my wife) she is probably the best thing that ever happened to me, she supported me, trusted me all this time, gave me so many chances, gave me 2 beautiful kids and I have disappointed her and this over powering feeling of losing her makes me shut out the other woman who has been waiting for me in another country for a lot many years. And now that she is telling me that she will move on and live out all the fantasies with some other guy, I find myself back in the spot and I feel torn, Will I ever be able to be honest with my wife? Will I always cheat on her, or will I be able to go to this other woman whom I fantasied about for so long. I don’t even know a real life with her, how that would pan out. Me and my wife has done so many things together, and with this woman, although she has lived as a single 24 yr old. It is really daunting for me to think about leaving my wife and children and for them to not have the father figure or someone in the house who fixes everything plumbing, electrical, construction any DIY or creative thing, does the groceries, cooks, cleans, vets and buys everything that might be necessary to run the house, takes the garbage out, plows the snow, feed the children, read them bedtime stories, designated driver etc etc. To go off for that woman who promises to cherish me and give me that love for which I keep coming back to her.
Hi,
I have been limering over a girl for a long time. I have been married for 11 years 8 of which I have been having an affair on and off with that woman. Me and my wife have had our resentments with each other but she never faltered, she remained faithful. We have two children of 8 and 2 yrs old.
I have been caught several times, and she has always somehow after lots of begging let me stay in the marriage and take care of them. She is the primary earner of the family and loves me very much. I am very supportive of her and bend over backwards to help smooth out our lives together. I am spontaneous and she is calculative, ying and yang. I have tried to break up with that woman who is 10yrs younger than me, but after breaking up and sometime had passed, I cant help but contact her, and things start off again, and with more vigor and secrecy. The other woman loves me and to a point of self-mutilation of her body because of me, her body is riddled with cuts and marks, because she was disappointed at my decision to leave her for my family. Now after 8 years and a really bad breakup, and a final final pardon from my wife, I started to get my sh*t together. Look for work, learn a new skill, find my passion and pursue it.
Then after a month of no contact, I contacted her and she is now with another man (dating over facebook and not in real life) although she has slept with several men (within the month i rejected her) on account of me rejecting her once again and breaking her heart. Now my wife trusts me again, and the other woman has made contact and is asking me to leave my family and be with her or she will move on with her life and I will regret it for the rest of my life.
I am crazy for this woman because she gives me excitement, sex and great conversation partner. We see eye to eye on a lot of things. If I compare my wife to her, my wife is better in terms of social standing, career, more patient etc.. I cheated on my wife for different reasons of resentment, feeling that I don’t get enough sex, or when we married she was thin and after our first child which was very early on her weight doubled and she developed a 6 months pregnant belly (permanently) and she tell me, its my body, it because like this because I gave birth to our child and you should accept it, or we don’t see eye to eye on many things, our views and characteristics are polar opposites, its what makes us a very good partner combo, but also something that drives me away from her. Also I have never been head over heels in love with my wife. I appreciate her and recognize her and all that we have established together. I have an intense desire to take care of my wife and children. At some point I even proposed a polygamous relationship to her, that let me keep the other person in my life, so I don’t have to go around your back. Obviously she was appalled and we had a really bad argument.
When I get caught, other than the immense guilt I feel, I also feel that I am losing the best part of my life (my wife) she is probably the best thing that ever happened to me, she supported me, trusted me all this time, gave me so many chances, gave me 2 beautiful kids and I have disappointed her and this over powering feeling of losing her makes me shut out the other woman who has been waiting for me in another country for a lot many years. And now that she is telling me that she will move on and live out all the fantasies with some other guy, I find myself back in the spot and I feel torn, Will I ever be able to be honest with my wife? Will I always cheat on her, or will I be able to go to this other woman whom I fantasied about for so long. I don’t even know a real life with her, how that would pan out. Me and my wife has done so many things together, and with this woman, although she has lived as a single 24 yr old. It is really daunting for me to think about leaving my wife and children and for them to not have the father figure or someone in the house who fixes everything plumbing, electrical, construction any DIY or creative thing, does the groceries, cooks, cleans, vets and buys everything that might be necessary to run the house, takes the garbage out, plows the snow, feed the children, read them bedtime stories, designated driver etc etc. To go off for that woman who promises to cherish me and give me that love for which I keep coming back to her. But everything else is unknown, and I will have to sever connection with my kids (automatically as I leave them for her) and my family, mom and dad, sisters, and in-law family and ofcourse my wife.
After thought: After I have sex with my wife, I feel “What am I doing, I should focus on the good I have and go forward pursuing a good career.”
10mins later.. “I’m pining for that woman, and missing her ” and generally i’m depressed because I miss that woman in everything I do.
Can I get some perspective? I need to decide what to do…
Free yourself and divorce your wife. She shouldn’t be treated as a door prize. Pay your child support without complaint. Don’t be late when it is your time with the children.
Maybe your LO and her new beau would open their relationship up to include you.
Hi Shaums Rossi. That sounds like a very tough decision. You are very torn between two very different extremes, and I get the impression that neither of them really makes you happy, thus you end up pining for your wife & family when you are with your paramour, and for your paramour when you are with your wife. To be honest, I don’t think it matters at all which women you choose, only that you do make a decision and most importantly that you stick with that decision an make the best if it. And do it soon. Because your indecisiveness is hurting the two women you love most in the world…over and over again! I can’t imagine how painful and insecure this must be for them, never knowing what their future holds, knowing they can’t rely on having you around.
If you do end you marriage as pleasantly as you can, it does not have to mean burning all your familial relationships forever. If you are contrite and bend over backwards to be a the best ex-husband you can be, they will come around.
I can see how you may think that polyamory is the solution to your problem. If that is want you really want (and that is what you are dishonestly practicing already), then you must be honest with your wife and paramour in this, and tell them that if they want to be with you, then it must be on those terms. But you must bear in mind that polyamory is reciprocal. You must also graciously accept your wife and paramour having relationships with other men. They may be just sexual, or they may fall madly in love and choose their new love over you. That is what you have gifted to yourself, so you must give that to them also. But I suspect you only want this for yourself, which is not polyamory at all.
Please consider that happiness is not something that happens to you, it is a state of mind that you must cultivate through good intentions, what you rest your attention on, and through your actions. How do you feel about yourself currently? Resolving this problem decisively and permanently is also the key to your own mental well being.
Wishing you well.
Thank you Allie for taking the time in reading and replying so articulately. I agree with you on so many levels and you have said somethings that I have felt and have heard from them as well. First off, to me, in my paradigm it is really a tough decision, there are good and bad in both women and realistically neither of them (or any woman for that matter, I guess) makes me as happy as I would imagine myself to be. My wife is always telling me, “You fuss about the little things a lot, you should look at the bigger picture” I agree, and also disagree because its the little things that add up, the little disappointments that lead to resentment, but if possible look to the bigger picture because end of the day that’s what you’re left with.
Happiness is my own state and I need to find a way to feel that way regardless of my partner. As a Cancer I romanticize a lot of things and if they don’t pan out that way I get disappointed. Both women at some point in our relationship has told me I’m unreliable either I’m going into an affair again, or I’m leaving my paramour again with no promises of a return. It is torture for both, and myself.
Logically staying with my wife makes the most sense. It’s what I’m already doing, we have our children and maybe focusing on our marriage might be the right thing to do, knowing and accepting that a part of me will always remain unfulfilled. With regards to divorce, our marriage has sustained too much damage, but we were trying to patch it up with time and understanding until my paramour told me about her moving on and whether I want to be with her or not finally. It is so difficult to let her go and stay that way. I have never physically left my wife because we had a child early on, and now we have a second one and we make a good team. The fact is that my wife is now a good friend and companion, yet I find our conjugal life very mundane and its of less priority and there is very little romance from my wife, things I crave, the importance I want to feel from her, and over all there is very little attraction from my side. I have experienced this throughout my marriage and this has led me to always wander away in my thoughts whenever I am with my family visiting some place or doing something together, I wonder how it would be like with someone I was really attracted to.
My Paramour is romantic, sexual and very responsive to me, the few times I went out with her I really enjoyed myself, but I was worrying at the back of my mind because I shouldn’t be spending time with her or do anything for that matter. My family holds my paramour to a very low standard calling her names and demeans her. No matter how many times I have left her, I always returned to her because she makes me feel all these ranges of emotions, starting from rage, frustration, love and so much more, and its been 8 years this has been going on.
I dont know how to break up my marriage, it would probably continue indefinitely if I left my paramour once again and stayed away forever. And that was my prerogative all these days. Listen to my mom, listen to my sisters, listen to my wife and lead a life which makes sense, which makes life easy, not having to worry about money, environment, raise children etc etc. Yet my heart although gets persuaded to stay in the marriage and try to remain faithful and honest, after a while goes back pining for my paramour. Want to go to that place where she lives, where you have to fight for a living, and fight for basic human rights, and leave this good life, children etc.
My paramour asked me, if I am serious, I will not be able to convince my family for a peaceful divorce, so the best way would be for me to run away and then once I reach her, speak to my wife about separation and divorce. Otherwise I should stay with my wife and children and regret not having taken the steps to be with someone, with whom I could actually feel happy. Although I doubt in my moments of happiness I will regret not being part of my children’s lives (Different countries, if I leave, atleast for a couple of years till I can come back).
@Shaums Rossi,
I am a child of a couple who didn’t stay together and divorced and my father wasn’t in my life at all after age 4. He moved on and created a new family I knew nothing about. I felt this horrible gaping hole in my soul and searched for him frantically my entire life. I finally, as an adult, hired a private investigator who made some headway but was unsuccessful and then finally an amateur sleuth found clues that led me to him.
Do you know what he said as he looked at the 36 year old me and then at the photos of little girl me that I brought with me?
“I should have tried harder to be in your life.”.
That’s right…he should have. He robbed me of having a father to guide me, to love me, to nurture my talents and help me understand the person I came from. Instead of trying to make up for lost time out relationship never got off the ground as he continued to be focused on his new family and was ashamed to tell them that I existed and that he had neglected me my entire life.
Never underestimate how much goodness you give your children by being there with them and for them, and how terribly damaging your absence will be.
Your involvement in their day to day life is their right as your children.
@Jaideux Thank you so much for the insight! I mentally took the desicion to go away from my family to start a new one before posting my reply to Allie here. But since I thought about leaving my children and wife I haven’t been able to sleep, in the last 48hrs. I am certain I want to make my marriage work, and tell my paramour to move on with the man whom she has been having a relationship with, he is apparently all that I was, and single and younger than me.
It works out for everyone i guess, I will use other strategies to try and keep myself from falling off the wagon and get back on track with my career. This whole experience for the past twon month will serve me as a mile marker for the rest of my life.
Thank you@Jaideux and Thank you @Allie
I will tell her that I wont be coming to her afterall.
This is the right thing to do.
““You fuss about the little things a lot, you should look at the bigger picture” I agree, and also disagree because its the little things that add up, the little disappointments that lead to resentment, but if possible look to the bigger picture because end of the day that’s what you’re left with.”
I personally believe that more happiness arises from appreciating all the small moments in life than from the bigger picture. e.g. warm child cuddles, a sunny winters day, satisfaction of a job done well, sharing a warm smile with a stranger, etc. It can be a learned skill to really notice and take in all of these small moments, instead of mostly thinking about the negatives or the bigger picture.
I hope you realise that the attraction you have for your paramour will diminish or even die over time. If you are lucky, you will may eventually feel the same about her as you currently feel about wife. If you are unlucky, you may eventually be filled with deep regret. Limerence never lasts and nothing hastens its death throes like removing the barriers or uncertainty and being together full-time. What happens then? You find another LO, have an affair and move on again?
If you take away the time-limited mutual attraction and sexual responsiveness with your paramour, and replace that with a big dose of SO-complacency, who of the two women makes the best long term partner when you consider everything, including your family? If you are looking for a forever relationship, choose that person, focus on them and make that relationship the best it possibly can be.
If you choose your wife, there is some great material and proven strategies on this site to help you recover from your LE – but it does require you to commit to that recovery.
@Shaums Rossi,
I had a very challenging evening. Former LO left me a voice mail that sent me into a tailspin. I started thinking about the feeling of abandonment starting in young childhood, and the repeated wounds of abandonment by LO’s who succeeded in acquiring my complete devotion and then trampled on it.
I felt nauseous, and was weeping bitterly when I decided to pop on here and saw you recent post. You have made me very, very happy, and immensely comforted, and although your decision requires subjugating certain passions, I think you are an honorable, respectable person! I think you have made the wisest choice for everyone, and by sowing high principled living you will reap a clean conscience, the joys of daily life with your children, and perhaps a resurgence of love for your SO. As Allie pointed out choosing otherwise would likely have lead to the most distressing regrets of your life.
You now have your dignity and your self respect.
Well done! And thank you for lifting my spirits.
@Jaideux,
Glad it lifted your spirits, it certainly gave me a lot of comfort. The last time I left my LO I felt dignity instead of shame and self-respect (although I missed her in a lot of things, and felt extremely bad and tortured for breaking her heart), for my restraint towards her, and it made a world of a difference in my family life, and me personally.
@Allie
Yes the little joys mean the world and my SO is also learning that. I have heard and read enough to know, once time has gone and reality hits, the attraction might / most probably die down. Knowing me, I know I will regret leaving my SO. If I take away the crazy attraction (Cancer & Scorpio, I don’t believe in it much (zodiac) but the descriptions are eerily accurate). My SO will win hands down. I know there is a lot I have to work through to get me straight. But really, honesty has its power, I see it in my SO and LO and I want that. The fact that I couldn’t completely be honest with my SO allowed me to feel shame and dive back into relationship with my LO.
I spoke with her about leaving the relationship, but she is now very adamant about me buying the plane tickets and get on a plane and go to her. And she is offering a world of temptations :(. She doesn’t want to hear about me saying no, she said: “You have taken care of your children enough, they are in a good environment, they will grow up and would eventually leave you anyway, then you will be lonely and regret having left me. So come to me, finally for once chose me and just come. I will make u forget your regrets when they come. We will finally live out all our fantasies and dreams. If it were up to me I would make you buy the ticket right now and come to me tomorrow. You will be able to meet your children when the time comes and things cool off. And if u miss having kids I will give you babies, we can raise our own..” rest of the message is more about our fantasies..etc etc.
@Allie and @Jaideux:
Your reply’s and words have given me a lot of strength. Thank you so much! I will look into the resources of this site. But maybe I might have to ghost my LO, otherwise.. I don’t know to what extent will I be hurting her.
@Shaums Rossi,
If some guy was trying to lure your wife away from you and encouraging her to abandon her kids and leave you to raise them all alone would you want her to ghost him? How would you feel about him?
Maybe imagining that could help.
Hoping for the best for you, I know it’s hard.
This one’s for you, Jaideux!
Song of the Day: “I Hear You Knocking” – Dave Edmunds (1970)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMjwb13TFCo
I hope you’re feeling better!
My wife and I had a long chat, about why she stayed and kept staying in the marriage, because I was thinking of her to get some therapy so she could get over those feelings. She told me no sane person would stay in a relationship where the other person has cheated time and time again for all these years. One of the main reasons is that she is scared to raise children on her own, and do all the things I do to keep our living standard up to her level.
She says we are still together because she is very comfortable with our partnership, and she just hasn’t been able to leave me.
It feels like a band-aid that needs to get ripped off. Even if I’m not with my wife, maybe at some point I can re-connect with my children because they will miss me.
And maybe my wife needs to live without me to be able to move forward and feel truly happy. Because right now we live in bouts of happiness, and try to stay happy with things we do.
I remember the times I was staying off my LO and depending on my SO and it turned out I needed too much attention and my SO was busy dealing with her job to be able to give me that. Also when we are together I hardly feel anything, we just do it and go about our work at home.
I know I wanted to make my marriage work, but my LOs words keep haunting me, ur gonna cheat on her again, and you will be constantly doing wrong by her, by me and urself. If you leave, you children will not have you for a while, but u can reconnect later.
Just thoughts
Shaums Rossi – a thought for you from me: your problem is not choosing between SO and LO, your problem is your disconnection from your own feelings. It’s striking to read your deliberations about events that will have a seismic impact on multiple lives (long into the future) in such neutral terms. It reads like you’re choosing between job opportunities, not the romantic core of your family’s world.
Another blunt truth: your LO is right that if you don’t choose her you will continue to cheat on your wife with her. But what she misses (like many other adulterers) is that if you do choose her, you will just cheat on her in turn.
This is not about them, it’s about you. Until you change your behaviour, you will continue to harm those around you – it may not be malicious, but it will cause just as much emotional damage. Finding the right woman is not going to solve your emotional needs, you have to do that. And the best way to start, I would suggest, is to try and figure out why you are so out of touch with your feelings that you are not able to resist LO’s crude manipulation, and are OK with continuing to humiliate the mother of your children.
@Scharny,
That song is perfect for me. Thank you buddy!
@Shaums Rossi,
I strongly encourage you to take Dr. L’s deprogramming course. If you do, you will make decisions with a clear head. I am enjoying it so much, almost finished and I feel much more inner strength and complex issues in my head have sorted themselves out. Please do it before you make a major life altering decision!
@drlimerence You sir have really struck a chord somewhere deep within myself. For sometime, in fact ever since I can remember I have been like this, disconnected, I felt like Dexter (from the TV series) a sociopath who did not know what to feel or how to feel in different situations or with different people. So I learned to act in certain ways and try to anticipate what sort of reaction other people might expect from me and do that, to seem normal. So yes I have had that disconnect since as long as I can remember.
I cried profusely two days ago when I decided to let go of my LO and realized that at some core part of me I want my SO and never really want to leave her, no matter what and for the past 18 years I have been looking to get things from other women that I really just wanted from my SO, but I couldn’t ask them from her. I realized that me cheating on my wife, made me feel so ashamed within myself that my self-respect, self-esteem and self-worth were always at an all time low, and I thought I would feel better if I was with my LO, that she would make it alright. I didn’t know honesty and truth had so much power.
As I tried to take @Allie’s advice and imagine a life where all the sex has been done and now its all mundane day to day life, I couldn’t image myself with anyone else other than my SO. And I’m sure I could make sex a lot better with my SO, it was just my mindset and lack of communication. Other than the obvious physical LO(24 single) SO(35+ 3 full pregnancies+complications and 2 babies) and pregnancies were never forgiving to my SOs body.
It has been two days since I logged on to my fake facebook account to chat with my LO, she has probably caught on that I’m not getting on that plane to come to her, and probably is now focusing on the other guy, which gives me a sort of solace. As every new day comes, I feel better and better.
I am applying Mel Robbins “5 Second Rule” to get me away from bad thoughts and mostly focusing on all the good.. I got my phone, changed my wifes Generic number with a picture that I really like of her as a contact pic, and renamed her as soulmate. I am instilling within my self that “This is it, I will be an adult about my feelings and own up to them, be content on my own, with what I have and cherish the love my wife brings to the table for me.”
It will take loads of time for me to fully recover but I think I am on the right path, and it makes me feel very good and happy and confident.
As for what my LO said, I think a lot of it, is self fulfilling prophecy, and I will not think like that. I will not let myself cheat on my wife because I do not miss my LO anymore, and nor do i feel like looking around. One line really stood out within this forum “Limerence is like a mold, it grows in darkness and secrecy, if you bring it to light and say it out to your SO, it will die out easily” I will be more open and honest about any future limerent feelings so that they go away.
@Jaideux Thank you, I think I will look into the program. Anything that can help, I will try it. I know I have to work at being a normal human being, (who does not cheat, knows whats good for him, has self respect and is content.. etc).
This is good news!
Everyone at LwL is rooting for you!
Has anyone had feelings like this? I feel this lingering hunger for getting aroused. But nothing really works to get me there, not porn, not my SO However pictures, videos and memories of my LO gets me there.
I have been getting high on that intense feeling for so long, I dont know how to get over it.
Can anyone relate?
Oh yes, I absolutely relate to that feeling as am suffering from it myself right now! Hungry and empty. I reckon every limerent can relate to that. It is so very seductive and compelling isn’t it.
Think of those feelings and your LE as a drug addiction. When you withdraw from your drug the cravings are strong to start with but they do fade if you don’t take any more of the drug. The difficulty of course is that your mind can provide your drug of choice in the form of fantasy. To deal with that, I would do DrLs Emergency Reprogramming course – lots of material there to deal with the ruminating and LE in general.
I also think you should take a good look at what you need to add to your life to meet those needs that your LE has been fulfilling. Find or create something good or novel to look forward to!
For me, my goals are more intimacy with SO, maybe have sex therapy with SO, seeing my close friends more often (to get the connection I need), taking up an adrenaline sport again (for the thrills!) and doing some voluntary work (looking outside of myself and giving instead of limerent thinking about my romantic needs all the time).
I have heard of other limerents learning a new language, joining a new social meetup group, taking up a new sport, changing jobs, etc. DrL created this site in response to his LE!
Wishing you well.
Hi Vincent,
Like most of reality, I’ve left a lot more out of the texts that would otherwise take the “creep” out of it. The answer to “why” is that, like I’d done with all the other spin instructors, we started off talking about music, and, as all the instructors I talked with were on spotify, I shared a couple workout playlists with all of them. Turned out, ms. spin and I also work in the related industries and when her then-contract was ended, she’d given me her resume to pass along to some people I knew. Within the full amount of context, what I wrote IS a bit forward, but well within the bounds of interactions between us.
objectively speaking, tho, that kind of conversation should’ve really been a face:face, but… Ok, here: at the beginning of October, several months after we reconnected because the COVID-closed-gym opened up outdoor spin classes, which were then-newly-moved indoors b/c of cold weather, who has objectivity when the LO is less then a 6 feet away, post-class, no one else in the room that was illuminated by a string of holiday lights and the light coming from the windows that overlook the main gym area – and she says something about it being much too bright out there, and running her hand thru her hair…? For the record, while my attraction to her had been growing from the start of summer, I declined to acknowledge whatever that may have been and remained a gentleman: Eyes up, no physical contact, yada yada..
Can’t lie, tho – that was one of most difficult things I’ve done in a long time…
That said, this is the only class she teaches at my gym and I’m in a couple other classes during the week (watching that cardiac health!) Could I drop that Saturday and go to a Sunday class? Sure. Do I want to? Nope. Will I? Most likely.
* * * * *
And, after the just-concluded rerun of an argument with my wife (which continues to undermine my desire to work out issues with someone completely unwilling to compromise or admit to being wrong), the only thing that’s keeping me away from ms. spin is that I respect her, understand her situation and don’t want to mess it up.
sigh… and life goes on…
Hi Brad. Welcome to Lwl!
Yours is such a hard situation, I really feel for you! It sounds like you love your wife but your feelings are gradually being eroded by current circumstances. Being a carer like that has got to be tough going on anyone…you want to be a good husband in this situation by being supportive, patient and uncomplaining but you are a separate person with needs of your own. You deserve happiness too. Does it feel like everything is now about meeting her needs and that you have become unimportant? Is your wife aware of how you feel? I guess when you are ill and struggling like she is, you tend to get wrapped up in your own discomfort and problems, and you forget that other people have, maybe smaller, but equally as important difficulties of their own. I wonder if there is work you can both do to improve things in your marriage and ensure your needs are met, and that you feel you also matter? Couples counselling maybe? Or even solo therapy? I think this will help you overcome your LE.
Echoing Vincent there are some great resources on this site that can help with your LE. And I think it is important for your future happiness that you do work on this as as joyous and comforting as they are to start with, LEs do have the nasty habit of taking over our minds, our lives and making us very unhappy in the end.
Wishing you well.
HI Allie,
Thanks – there seems to be a lot here on lwl that’s so… “common-sensical” that it ought to “go without saying”, except that sometimes, we’re so stuck in a situation, “it” needs to be said by someone outside.
Re my LE: I’ve been handling that not well with her, mostly because of my frazzled emotional state. I’ve started coming out of that state (can’t say what the turning point was – a lot of journaling, perhaps?), and can say that, difficult as it will be, since I’ve apologized to her for being completely inept at communicating what’s swirling around the event-horizon of my emotional black-hole, I’ll switch my workout schedule around, to avoid putting myself in a situation that has a high probability of emotional compromise (ie, her class.) I’ll allow time to cauterize the self-inflicted emotional wounds and maybe come out of this for the better – at least where interacting with others are concerned.
As for my wife, you hit the nail on the head re: the stressors here at home. Another night of unpleasant and tense arguing last night about stupid (to me) stuff – except, working from home, and not in the office, and physically compromised, she has so little under her actual control that her OCD tendencies manifest in what I call “micromanaging” (actually, anyone could call it that…) and I don’t respond well when I, in the heat of the moment, categorize behavior as that. Throw in a few 55+ hour work weeks, and I’m prime for a nervous/emotional breakdown, given half a chance. And life has been handing me multiple whole chances…
I think the song “Blue Morning, Blue Day” by Foreigner captures about 95% of the situation – there’s a strong resistance on her part to counseling – why, I have no clue; she says I won’t listen, but, funny that – I’ve spent the better of the last 20 years in and out of therapy, dealing with various things. Her? not so much. There’s a 2006 Who lyric that’s surprisingly relevant:
“If you don’t hear me, how can I tell you
If you don’t listen, why should I speak
If you’re indifferent, how can I reach you
Just cause you’re angry don’t assume I’m weak.”
(yes, music bounces around in my head the way light bounces off a disco ball 🙂 )
I’ll keep on reading this site, and I’ll check back in, in a couple weeks, status check, as it were.
Thanks, everyone.
I have been meaning to ask this and I hope I am not being potentially hurtful when I do so. Now, which of these situations is worse:
1. A married person who is in a stale marriage that could head towards divorce, and becomes limerent for someone who is single and reciprocates their affections
Or
2. A lonely single person with no social circle or dating life who longs for a relationship and becomes limerent for a married person but they don’t reciprocate their affections?
I would also add, that in this scenario, they’ve sought therapy, which has helped, but hasn’t addressed the underlying issues for both parties, leaving them with this limerence-induced mess.
Honestly, I’ve been thinking about this trapped situation for a while and I truly don’t know who has the worse situation: the married person or the single person. There are arguments to be had for and against both parties. Thoughts on this?
Why the need to determine which is worse?
Every set of circumstances is unique so I don’t think you can generalise this.
The single person pining for a married one. Why? Because in the first instance the married limerent has a legal option available – divorce. Doesn’t matter if the LO initiates it or their SO. Outcome is the same. Freedom to pursue their passions.
The single person has no legal leverage to “make” their dreams come true with their disinterested LO.
@Allie and @vincent. I hope I haven’t been offensive in the way I have presented my hypothetical situation, but I when I used the term “worse situation”, it was more to determine, when you have two limerents, with different marital statuses, trapped in a situation that is similar, and trying to ascertain if they are equal to one another in their respective situations or if one of those limerents has it worse than the other?
After interacting with you folks and reading more about limerence, I realize that for a lot of people, limerence isn’t equal in terms of how it affects someone and the wider effects it can have on those relationships.
Limerence is a destructive force of nature at the best of times, but there are occasions when it can do more damage than others. Based upon my own experiences, I appreciate that if I was in a relationship when I had become limerent, that would have had the effect of hurting that potential partner, making those limerent experiences worse than they were as I was single.
What I do agree with you, Allie, is that it is important not to generalize with these situations and regardless of who has it worse, both situations require sympathy and support.
I’m on the flip side of Lee’s coin. If I HAD to vote, the “worse situation” would be for the married limerent.
Why? Because a single limerent pining for an unreciprocating LO has less potential to disrupt the lives of others. While the married limerent has the option of leaving the marriage, the SO and children would be forced to deal with the consequences. They may become the sacrifices at the altar of the limerent’s happiness.
But, we’re all different.
From Ally McbealL
Georgia: “Ally, what makes your problems so much bigger than everybody else’s?”
Ally: “They’re mine.”
It’s much more peaceful without a spouse who is limerent for another who is alternating between snarling and being a drag.
So very glad not to go through months of lockdown with said individual.
Limerence? At the very least her ex-husband made a lucky escape. No kids.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/22/opinions/christie-smythe-martin-shkreli-elle-filipovic/index.html
https://www.elle.com/life-love/a35021224/martin-shkreli-christie-smythe-pharma-bro-journalist/
I was a lonely young man who nursed crush after crush. I was not even shy per se, just cripplingly insecure towards women.
I first kissed a girl at age 22. I didn’t even have a crush on her but she liked me, and by God I felt so alone, and it felt so good to have someone. I loved her, I think, but probably experienced no limerence.
We married when I was 30. We were both virgins.
Our wedding night was a disaster and our sexual life was… complicated. We only achieved penetration seven years into marriage. I was always frustrated but sought escape in other things. Even today we rarely do it (penetrative sex) and my only release is masturbation (often by her side).
We do have a boy, age 3, the sweetest kid in the world.
All these years I may have had feelings for other women, but they were never intrusive. I genuinely appreciate my wife, despite our difficulties; we’ve been there for each other for 11 years now. And to be honest, being very insecure makes it so very easy to not indulge these caprices — though I like to think that the opportunity presented itself at least twice and I resisted it.
And of course, the feelings and thoughts for these other women were never intrusive.
Which they are now.
I have developed feelings for a woman who I have never met. She posted a raunchy photo to an ordinarily non-raunchy message board and I was immediately smitten. A little digging and what do you know — she is a very, very expensive escort in another country (Canada, of all places. I live in South America).
I am at a loss to describe the power that this one image has had over me. It was no big deal, not kinky, even kind of artsy, but I think the key is that this woman is not only extraordinarily beautiful but to my eyes, she bears a more than passing resemblance to my also very beautiful wife.
In fact, seeing that picture spurred me to a few days of very heightened libido and lots of talking to my wife about “fixing” our sex life (something she professes to wanting as well, and seems sincere to me) once and for all.
She was so puzzled at my newfound desire (which really feels to me just like something I’ve been repressing for a long, long time) she worried I had been in an affair. So I ended up telling her about the girl and showing her the photo — she was actually relieved. But I have not been honest with her regarding the extent of my feelings for that woman.
I have subscribed to her OnlyFans page, to my embarrassment. Never thought I’d do this. I send her messages and she gives token replies — of course, I’m just another chump — and I look enthralled at her photos and videos. Of course, she is very, very good at driving men crazy, being her stock and trade and all.
I keep fantasizing about visiting her and book a date. (Crazy expensive but once-in-a-lifetime affordable for me.) A harebrained idea under normal circumstances but thankfully COVID has pushed it out of question for the foreseeable future. Realistically I believe I am at no risk of fulfilling this attraction.
I understand that it should be simple to go NC just by letting the OF subscription lapse. And I’m confident that this will burn itself out. But by God, everything about it hurts.
It hurts that I can’t have my LO.
It hurts that if I did, it would probably spell the end of my marriage (I don’t think she would forgive me). And she and I and my son would be miserable, just for me to fulfill a capricious desire for a woman I’ve never met, who couldn’t possibly return my affection on the same terms.
It hurts that my wife and I have a difficult sex life — but based on the last few days, I trust that, by some strange crooked path, this might end up actually repairing some old wounds.
Please, do not judge me further. I have already established that I am a bad person — in my mind, I have as good as cheated on my wife. And yet I truly have feelings for her and not only do not want my marriage to end, I truly, sincerely do not want her to be hurt in any way, shape or form.
In an ideal world, I would be able to indulge this fantasy with her support, and even her presence. But I dare not even ask. I know where she stands on such things and just voicing it out loud would probably devastate her.
I am confident this will pass and again circumstances conspire to make it easy for me to do the right thing. (Painful emotionally, but easy in practical terms.)
I just could really use some support.
Your story has really touched me. It sounds like a tough painful spot you are in, I really feel for you. Sexual pleasure is a basic human need so it is not surprising that you are finding another outlet for your very normal human desires and feelings.
“I have already established that I am a bad person — in my mind, I have as good as cheated on my wife.” I disagree and believe you are being far too hard on yourself. There is no such thing as thought crime – your mind is your own personal playground for you to use as you wish. You have been honest with your SO and it sounds like you still love and value her so I can’t see what you have done wrong. It is fine to have romantic and sexual feelings for others when married, inevitable even over an entire lifetime of marriage, so long as you still love your SO and treat her well. Cheating is when you act on those feelings.
Would some kind of sex therapy help you with the sexual issues in your relationship? Penetrative sex is not essential for a healthy sex life, and is not even the best route to pleasure for the female anatomy (surprising considering how all depictions of sex lead us to believe otherwise :). Have you explored the alternatives together?
Wishing you well.
Thank you for your kind words and sympathy. I really appreciate them.
We have achieved penetration twice, seven years into our marriage, after years of counseling. She became pregnant after the second attempt and… that was it.
She has no problem deriving pleasure without penetration. I love hear dearly, am very much attracted by hear and it’s no sacrifice at all to please her, but I am not satisfied with this current state of affairs where my sole route to orgasm is masturbation.
I feel that a large part of the problem is that my wife seems uninterested in sex as a whole. She doesn’t share her fantasies with me; I have shared mine, abundantly.
I feel diminished in my masculinity and wonder whether I will ever be good enough for someone. (Self-esteem is hardly my strong suite, even on a good day.)
She assures me that she feels desire and that she’s attracted to me, but she seldom initiates sexual contact and I have the feeling that she has a world of hang-ups she’s not letting me on to.
So it seems textbook that my current LO is a woman who looks a bit like my wife and very openly sexual.
I believe the limerence is subsiding already, as the thoughts have been getting less intrusive. I no longer fantasize about a deep or lasting sentimental connection to my LO. But I still fantasize about meeting her, spending time with her, and sex. And still catch myself planning an escapade, and the attendant deception to make it happen. (I really haven’t been exactly honest with my wife on the extent of my feelings for the LO.)
Yet something good may yet come out of it all. We have been talking and I have tried to voice my frustrations in a manner that’s sensitive to her own difficulties, and we’re already trying a few different things in the bedroom. She seemed more responsive to me in bed last time. So who knows.
Hi Limerent in the Tropics, and welcome. Sorry to hear what you are going through, and I would echo Allie’s point that some form of therapy may help with your situation – mismatched libidos is a very common factor for limerence in marriage.
As another note, could I suggest that you join the community forum? I’m not sure that the comments section is the best location for such intimate conversations – in part because I don’t want the site flagged for explicit content. The private forum is not indexed by Google, so safe for open discussion.
Allie,
“There is no such thing as thought crime – your mind is your own personal playground for you to use as you wish. … It is fine to have romantic and sexual feelings for others when married, inevitable even over an entire lifetime of marriage, so long as you still love your SO and treat her well. Cheating is when you act on those feelings.”
I don’t understand this. Now, I’m not married, and maybe I’m a bit of an idealist, but I’d much rather my SO have sex with five randos he doesn’t care about than become limerent for someone her never touches. Limerence is not the same as finding someone else attractive or even crushing on someone else, which I think most people will acknowledge will happen while in an long-term relationship. Limerence is having another person occupy the majority of one’s inner life, for at least a year or two, and that’s if you are actively working at trying to minimize it and not indulge it or ruminate over it. As a limerent, I also know the feelings will end and I will even look back on it and say, “What was I thinking?” But it can take a while to get there. And if the limerent hasn’t done a lot of research on why he is feeling as he does, getting over limerence could take even longer. That’s 1 to 2 years of the limerent not being emotionally present and engaged. That’s a long time. Now of course, I’m looking at this through an admittedly different lense than some. I’m not sure I believe any relationship is permanent, even those with family. If the relationship is really bad, I don’t see anything wrong with walking away.
“I’d much rather my SO have sex with five randos he doesn’t care about than become limerent for someone her never touches”
Yes me too. But just because I would much prefer my SO never to be limerent, it does not mean he is doing something wrong if he is. It is is actions that count. If he is emotionally completely absent or really devaluing me then yes I would struggle to accept that. But if not, then I would let him be.
I consider myself and SO to be two free independent people that have chosen to be companions and partners through life. I am not the owner of his mind nor the exclusive owner of his feelings, much as I may sometimes wish to be. I fully trust that he would value our marriage above an LE. And if he didn’t, then that is his free choice and there is little I can do to change that outcome. There is no point living life in fear of what you cannot change – better to be flexible and adapt.
“That’s 1 to 2 years of the limerent not being emotionally present and engaged.”. It does not have to be that way, and it isn’t for all limerents though that can take effort and a little self-discipline. I am emotionally present and engaged in my marriage for some of the time, and self-indulgently lost in daydreams some of the time. I just happen to love two men, in two very different ways.
Marriage is long-haul. Relationships feel very different after a decade or two together than they do in the early days, especially if you approach them realistically.
I should also add that many people emotionally check out of their marriages for a while for many different reasons that are not an LE. e.g. work, addictions, social life, family illness, stress, depression, etc. Working with this is just part of marriage – you can’t expect to be the centre of someone’s world for an entire lifetime. What a dull life that would be! 🙂
Allie,
“There is no point living life in fear of what you cannot change – better to be flexible and adapt.”
I’m not living in fear. I ‘m just saying that if I found out that my partner had been limerent for someone else and chose to withhold that information for two years — I can’t even imagine. You have been living with that person, being a companion to that person, having sex with that person for TWO years without knowing. It’s unconscionable to me that anyone would withhold that information. Now, I’m sure there are people who are told who choose to stay, but at least they are given the option of knowing the full truth.
Allie,
“Working with this is just part of marriage – you can’t expect to be the centre of someone’s world for an entire lifetime. ”
I haven’t meet too many married people who don’t put their partners and children at the center of their lives. If they aren’t, it’s usually because one of the two is thinking of walking or getting antsy. Doesn’t mean they don’t have other important people in their lives. They just aren’t in the inner circle.
Yes agree, honesty is important – I would personally not hide this from my SO and would be upset if he did. I do think that honesty is not the rational choice in some marriages though.
“I haven’t meet too many married people who don’t put their partners and children at the center of their lives. If they aren’t, it’s usually because one of the two is thinking of walking or getting antsy. Doesn’t mean they don’t have other important people in their lives. They just aren’t in the inner circle.”
Every marriage and person in it is different, and I think there is also cultural variation with this. At a high level I agree with you, but there are many degrees of making someone central to your world. First year or two of our relationship, I spent most of my spare time in SOs company – we were almost inseparable. 17 years on, we have many other things we want to do (separately), and other people we also want to spend time with (separately), which we find healthy and fulfilling. Spending the majority of my spare time with SO would feel stifling. Some days, we might only spend 10 minutes together. Some days more. Which works fine as we have a good emotional connection and communication. Neither of us is thinking of walking or getting antsy I must add.
Allie,
“Spending the majority of my spare time with SO would feel stifling.”
I didn’t meant that you spent all your time together. I meant that they are at the center of your life. That they are your priority. And there are some marriages where it’s a major trauma for the couple to eat dinner apart for one night. There’s a certain way they organize their lives/time. You can see the wife, your friend, for lunch, but forget about going out after dark! 🙂 Makes no sense to me. I’d think after a few years you’d want some time to visit with other people.
He he.. yes I know a few couples like that too! And when apart they track each others every move using google maps and mobile phone location services.
Sorry! Will do.
And thanks for the feedback.
Allie,
“And when apart they track each others every move using google maps and mobile phone location services.”
Good night that would drive me crazy. I’d think a married woman would want to have a night out with her friends at least once a month — dinner, drinks, a male revue. 🙂 I’m joking. Could be anything. I’ve had married female friends who just want to do the afternoon coffee, and I lose interest in that.
I am in need of some advice if there is any to give! Currently married to my SO for 5 years and developed an obsession with LO coworker about 1.5 years ago. I have had LO’s in the past before marriage and knew exactly what I was doing, but it just felt so exciting. I’ll preface this by saying I have an appointment with a therapist to work through these issues and prevent it from happening again.
What started off as infrequent texts turned into what I know is an unhealthy attachment. The past 8 months it has been daily check ins, pet names, coffee dates once a week or two, hiking trails together, visiting each other at work when we both got new jobs, etc. I spent my days and nights constantly plagued by thoughts of what he was doing, thinking, and if he was wondering the same thing about me. Besides flirty texts and comments in person, nothing progressed to more than a goodbye hug after our meetings. I justified it to myself by continuously thinking “I’m not doing anything physical, so it’s not bad!” like a mantra. But the guilt still ate away at me.
However the emotional and physical attraction was intensly strong on both sides. Nothing was ever confessed outloud, lest the spell we had woven around ourselves be broken. He knew I was married, but I was very careful not to ever bring it up and “spoil” the conversation. I’m not sure what I was expecting to happen; I knew I loved my SO and would never leave him or cheat. But as things with LO progressed, we came to a crossroads. Instead of feeling blissful and sated after our meetings, there was a budding frustration. I wanted something more, and I think he did too. We both felt the spark. Something felt like it had to give, but neither of us would address it out of respect to my marriage.
Just before my breaking point, my SO found and read some texts between us. He definitely didn’t get the whole picture, but enough enough to hurt him and cause a rocky stretch in our otherwise great marriage. I know this came as a great shock to SO, but we were able to have a heart to heart and I confessed to an extreme emotional attachment. He has been amazing through it all, and has been more understanding than I could have ever imagined, but was rightly very hurt. It opened up some suspicious and anxious thoughts on his end. I felt awful that I had let my limerent episode taint our otherwise happy marriage and vowed to do right by my SO. He requested no contact or very curt replies, and I will do just that.
Here’s the issue. Not only has LO been the object of my romantic thoughts and attention going on a year now, he also became my best friend. The person I would text all day, every day. Who I would come to with news before anyone else. He is genuinely a great, kind, and caring person. I cannot stand the thought of ghosting him and leaving him wondering what he did wrong with no closure. But admitting my feelings and the wrongness of my actions is like a bridge I’m scared to cross. Do I lay it all out, confess everything I was feeling and admit the innapropriateness of what we did and request that he not contact me any further? Or do I continue to not respond to messages and just hope that he takes the hint that something has happened between me and SO? I have ignored two texts so far over the past week and I feel like my window of opportunity is slipping.
Kat
“I’ll preface this by saying I have an appointment with a therapist to work through these issues and prevent it from happening again.”
I would be very careful with going to a therapist. This may be an unpopular view, but I don’t think therapy is the end-all, fix-all we’ve been led to believe it is. I’d make sure the therapist has heard of the term limerence and knows what it means. It is not your job to educate him/her. If he/she doesn’t, I’d find someone else. And make sure, even if he/she knows what limerence is, that he/she isn’t side-eying its existence. In addition, during your first session, I’d ask for a concrete plan that the two of you are going to work on to get you feeling better. What are the things you will discuss? What are the steps you will take in therapy and on your own, outside of therapy? What are your goals? And I’d access how all of that is working every few sessions. Otherwise, therapy can be this amorphous blob of sessions that just go on and on.
That isn’t to say there isn’t hope for limerence. No contact is the first step. Then, well, time. Time away from the LO through NC. And the third is finding something purposeful in your life. There are numerous posts on this blog about that.
Marcia,
I meant to make my post below a reply to Kat but I was still on my first cup of coffee.
I agree with most of what you said but disagree with some of it. Limerence doesn’t even have to come into the conversation at this point.
First things first. When you’re in a minefield, the first thing you try to do is get out of it without it blowing yourself up. You come back and clear the mines later. IMO, the first thing is view it as an EA, focus on how to deal with an EA and disengaging from her EA partner. It sounds like Kat’s still in crisis management mode.
Kat’s problem statement now is pretty simple, “I’m having an EA and I want to get out of it. Now. We can come back to how it happened later.”
Under stress and left to their own devices, limerents can make really bad assumptions that lead to really bad decisions that can lead to really bad outcomes. A competent therapist who knows nothing about limerence should be able to help Kat deal with an EA and help keep things straight. Once Kat is clear of the EA, she can focus on limerence. That may take finding a new therapist.
I spent 3 months with the EAP counselor getting out of the EA/LE with LO #4. I went back to her 6 months after LO #4 and I said goodbye to figure out how I got into the mess. The EAP counselor labeled but a codependent. That didn’t didn’t fit my experience and I discovered limerence, which did fit. I went back to the EAP counselor for a third to validate its concept. The EAP counselor had never heard of it and didn’t express much interest in it. But, she said if it helped me make sense of things and supported doing the right thing, she was all for it.
Phrased differently, when you’re up to your neck in quicksand, how you got there and not doing it again only matter if you make it out of this one alive.
But, that’s my experience. YMMV.
“The EAP counselor labeled me a codependent. But, that didn’t didn’t fit my experience and I discovered limerence, which did fit.
LE,
If she needs someone to talk to and sort out her feelings, I agree that a therapist can help. But one needs to keep expectations reasonable. There is no cathartic moment in therapy where the therapist takes you apart, shouts “That’s it! We found the problem!” and then puts you back together. It is SOOOO not like that. Personally, I have learned a lot more by reading this site, reading about personality styles like the Enneagram and slogging through life. There are some questions that cannot be answered and some issues that cannot be solved, IMO. But maybe other people have gotten more out of therapy than I did.
Marcia,
tl/dr
“There are some questions that cannot be answered and some issues that cannot be solved, IMO. But maybe other people have gotten more out of therapy than I did.”
That’s true, some questions can’t be answered and some issues can’t be solved but you can usually figure out enough to work past it. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and swims like a duck, it’s probably a duck and you don’t need a DNA sample to assume it’s a duck.
Going tangential once again…
It can take a Herculean effort to convince yourself to stop asking why they say and do what they do, that it doesn’t matter how they are with anybody else, it only matters how they are with you. You don’t need all the answers and some things can remain unresolved forever. Some answers are really helpful in learning how not to repeat yourself but you don’t need all of them.
I have two professional opinions LO #2 was either a Borderline (BPD) or a Narcissist (NPD.) But, in the end, the only thing that matters is we couldn’t make it together.
Do I like the idea that LO #2 likely had a Cluster B personality disorder? Sort of…it leads me to question my judgment and taste in women but it helps me with accepting that nothing I could have said or done would have likely altered the outcome.
Do I like knowing that I got married before LO #2 did and I’m still married to that woman? Do I like knowing that LO #2’s first marriage lasted 3 years, it took her 20 years to apparently find someone else, and she tried to contact me before she married him? Yes, to all the above. She blinked! I win!
Whether it’s true or not, I like to think I had a lasting effect on LO #2. I want to be The One That Got Away and who she compared all her subsequent lovers against. Sad, but true. But, again, doesn’t it really matter? Nope. But, it makes me feel better. Therapy helped me understand and articulate things. Many of them aren’t flattering.
The effectiveness of therapy seems to be based on the effort we’re willing to put into it, if we’re willing to let it take us places that make us uncomfortable, realize that it can cause some big changes in your life, and, maybe most importantly, working with a therapist who lets you drive your own bus and acts like a guide. Some therapists want to force you into a box they’re familiar with. They work for you, you don’t work for them.
My EA/LE with LO #2 is a different story. I saw the EAP counselor up front because I knew the risk the EA/LE posed to my marriage and I couldn’t afford to get it wrong. The EAP counselor guided me through it and later understand it.
I had a kind of “AHA!” moment. It was when the EAP counselor said the reason I didn’t understand my relationships with LO #2 and LO #4 was because I didn’t understand my relationship with my mother. She said when I understood my relationships with my mother and my grandmother who raised me after mom left, a whole lot of things would start to make sense. And, they did.
As Dr. Marion Solomon said, when many people enter therapy, they’re not seeking true change. They want the therapist to make them comfortable with their current pathology.
Crap!
“My EA/LE with LO #4 is a different story.”
Bad day for multi-tasking.
LE,
“Whether it’s true or not, I like to think I had a lasting effect on LO #2. I want to be The One That Got Away and who she compared all her subsequent lovers against.”
Why would you even care? Weren’t you with this woman decades ago? Does your wife know you think about the LO #2 like this? You are probably talking to the wrong person. I burned all letters/cards from past people. Got rid of the gifts. Pawned the jewelry. It was cleansing. If they were that important, they would still be with me now. At the time of the break-up, I was very hurt. And with some, there was a part of me that wanted to hurt them, but how could I? They were long gone. You can’t plan the big FU if you are the only one in the ring. And now, I just feel indifferent.
“Why would you even care? Weren’t you with this woman decades ago?”
Short answer: Because I didn’t deal with it then. I’m dealing with it now. Back then, I said goodbye and I walked. We said goodbye but said nothing about why. We left everything on the table. I tried to bury it but it wouldn’t stay dead. It was because of later problems in my marriage that I revisited my time with LO #2, wondering if I’d missed something and I made a mistake giving up. All the work I did helped me understand that and why I didn’t. Things got better in my marriage.
Therapy also revealed that if I get hurt deeply enough or someone pisses me off badly enough, I can be petty, vindictive, and can hold a grudge forever. I held one against a girl in HS for even longer than LO #2. It turns out, I may have been wrong and let that one go.
My wife’s seen it under different contexts. It takes a lot but it’s possible. Those are things the EAP counselor said I needed to work on. And, we did.
It’s better than it was a few years ago and with more time, I think it will fade entirely. LwL helped a lot. I was able to vent and frame my experience.
LE,
“Short answer: Because I didn’t deal with it then.”
Your story reminds me of a former male co-worker who was in his mid- to late-50s and talked quite a bit about a former fiancée who he was engaged to maybe 30 years earlier. I asked him what made her so special. He said she was the only woman who satisfied him sexually so that he wasn’t looking around at other women. (By looking, I don’t mean cheating). I asked him why he married his wife. He said she helped him get straight financially. TBH, both answers scared the hell out of me. He clearly hadn’t worked through his grief, and I applaud you for doing so, but how can one filter for this stuff if you are a woman and dating in middle age? I want someone who’s fresh. I don’t mean they’ve never had experiences, but that they are ready to move on and think whatever we have is the hottest and best thing around?
Marcia,
Maybe it’s not possible. Only 11% of any iceberg is visible above the surface and it isn’t what you see that sinks you. Up to a point, the older we get, the better we get at masking our less desirable features.
At some point, the mask can slip or go away. My father-in-law was a pretty cool guy to kill time with 30 years ago. Now, he’s just a curmudgeon. That didn’t happen overnight.
Song of the Day: “The Stranger” (Japan release) – Billy Joel (1977)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JussqDv0ZA
” I want someone who’s fresh. I don’t mean they’ve never had experiences, but that they are ready to move on and think whatever we have is the hottest and best thing around?”
Let’s say you meet a widower who was married for 30 years, He’s not some co-dependent needy flake. You develop a great a relationship. He could never erase that time. A lot of who he is was a result of her influence. He may be capable of understanding that that phase of his life is over and he thinks he could be happy with you. He may not be. Again, how do you figure that out up front?
But, could you get past that? Could you live with knowing that if his wife hadn’t died, you two wouldn’t even be together? There are some love songs you’ll never dance to at your wedding. The lyrics would be flat out lies. Could you believe that what you could have now is the hottest and best thing around?
He had something he liked for a long time and he thinks you could be something he likes and he thinks he can find what he had with you. That’s actually kind of flattering.
LE,
You lost me at widower. 🙂 I’m kidding. I probably wouldn’t be dating someone who’d been married 30 years. I’m not that traditional and not all that family-oriented. He’d probably be someone who maybe had never been married, had some long-term relationships, maybe even spent time on his own (that may be a pipe dream 🙂 ). He probably doesn’t exist. Or he’s 28 years old. 🙂
Marcia,
“He’d probably be someone who maybe had never been married, had some long-term relationships, maybe even spent time on his own (that may be a pipe dream 🙂). He probably doesn’t exist. Or he’s 28 years old.”
Your range is off. I made it to 32.
Your last post made me think of this. It’s my favorite Tanya Tucker song. I loved it from the first time I heard it. It has absolutely no connection to anyone I’ve ever known aside from LO #4. She moved to a place where the could “Stand beside the ocean, throwing rocks out in the bay…”
“Dancing the Night Away” – Tanya Tucker (1977)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCUVMXGhpKk
Marcia,
“I burned all letters/cards from past people. Got rid of the gifts. Pawned the jewelry. It was cleansing. If they were that important, they would still be with me now”
I have done this exact thing. Everything that LO gave me. Including pictures. I deleted, destroyed. I wanted nothing from him.
When I was in contact with him about a year ago, he told me he couldn’t watch the movie that we went to see together. He told me he had kept all my pictures. I told him I was wearing yoga pants. He described the exact ones that I was wearing.
Even so, I felt that I meant nothing to him. I accepted that a long time ago.
LE,
That song is about remembering someone who is gone. Not sure how that is connected to our discussion.
I’m thinking of someone like Robert Redford’s character in the movie “Out of Africa.” It’s based on real life people. Him, just a little more committal.
I have never met someone like that. Even if I meet people who have a flicker of non-traditional thinking, they’ve structured their life in a traditional way.
Beth,
“I told him I was wearing yoga pants. He described the exact ones that I was wearing.”
Well, he has an eye for detail.
The older I get, I really believe that if you are supposed to be with someone, you are together. I don’t meant that in a trite way, but it’s not a bad philosophy. It saves me from trying to twist myself into a pretzel to get someone’s attention or mope around over someone who didn’t stick around.
Marcia,
You’re correct,
However, that’s why we’re all here.
We can’t get past someone who didn’t deserve our time or earn our love.
Beth,
“We can’t get past someone who didn’t deserve our time or earn our love.”
Years ago, I asked a friend, who’s always had good boyfriends, what her secret was. “I want the people who want me.” I remember thinking: What if the people who want you are icky? 🙂 But her motto’s not a bad one to live by.
“I want the people who want me.”
There’s nothing cooler than being with someone who genuinely wants to be with you. What higher compliment can you pay someone that to want them. Just because. If someone want you, it’s because of who you are. If someone needs you it’s because of something they lack.
My father told me, “Between someone who says they want you and someone who says they need you, always go with the one who wants you, if for no other reason than they’re less likely to resent you later.”
There’s another motto I like. “Sometimes, sheer enthusiasm can cover a multitude of shortcomings.”
LE,
“If someone want you, it’s because of who you are. If someone needs you it’s because of something they lack.”
I’m going to have to disagree with you on this. It’s more societal, really. A romantic relationship is the only relationship that one is allowed to show need and ask for and expect much of anything (except children with their parents and older parents who need help from their adult children). If you ask for anything for most other types of relationships, people, as a general rule, run a mile. I mean emotional need, but it could be any need. I can count on my hand the number of friends who’ve helped me move … in the last 30 years. I’m talking packing up a few boxes for a couple of hours. I don’t meant carrying coaches down stairs.
Marcia,
Different people, different perspectives. I’ll admit my perspective is probably skewed. I was trained to believe that:
– There’s no one you can’t live without. You may miss someone terribly but you can still live without them.
– There’s somebody for everybody but nothing says there’s only one somebody for anybody.
– Women are like buses. Miss one and, eventually, another one will come around the corner. A lot of people don’t believe that so they accept what comes along or stay when they know they should leave. There’s a ton of information out there on why people stay in bad relationships.
– When it comes to relationships, want always trumps need.
– Some folks have the potential to go through life as very unhappy people. But, don’t ever tell them. They’ll only hate you for it. Stay away from them, if you can.
– Theft by force is robbery. Theft in your absence is burglary. Theft by duress is extortion. Theft with your consent is fraud. Crimes of the heart are always fraud. They may have lied or mislead you but you still agreed to it.
[I like Shaw’s “Maxims for Revolutionists]
I realized if I wanted to stop the loneliness I felt, I needed to let someone into my life. I wanted LO #2 to be that person and made her the offer. She declined the position. The need remained so I kept looking. I met my wife and I wanted her. She accepted the position. As an aside, LO is a title, it’s not a position in your life. SO is a title and a position in your life.
Song of the Day: “People Who Need People” – Barbara Streisand (1964)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPlQ6EtArSc
We should probably apologize to Kat. We totally hijacked her thread.
LE,
“When it comes to relationships, want always trumps need.”
I reiterate: When I use the word “relationship,” I am talking about all kinds of relationships — friendship, familial and romantic. Please keep that in mind. Everything is not about romantic relationships. And I disagree with you. When you show need, when you tell someone, for example, “I need you to be present. I need you to hear me. I need you to listen. What do you need from me?” you are showing vulnerability. Without vulnerability, you don’t have much of a relationship. It’s one of the issues I have with my family. They never need anything from me and won’t provide what I asked for from them, which is why our relationship is shallow. It’s all surface talk of politics or pop culture. When I told one of them that she never shares anything with me, she said “I’m private.” So we’re kind of dead in the water. They don’t need anything from me and won’t share anything with me. What’s the point?
Marcia,
I think we’re just not on the same page. 🙂
I think we beat this one to death.
This also is exactly what it is happening to me. I’m sure if I disclose to my husband he will not be supportive and it will be hell. I love my job and I don’t want to leave just to scape from my limerence. I have tried to go no contact and it works until a simple wave of him sparks everything again. I am desperate.
Yeah, you’re up to your eyeballs in an Emotional Affair. There are a number blogs here about those and when an EA goes to a PA.
So, you say, “I’ll preface this by saying I have an appointment with a therapist to work through these issues and prevent it from happening again.”
That’s a good thing provided you have a decent therapist.
Further down, you say, “I felt awful that I had let my limerent episode taint our otherwise happy marriage and vowed to do right by my SO. He requested no contact or very curt replies, and I will do just that.”
Your SO has given you a shot at redemption. Don’t screw it up.
Going on, “Not only has LO been the object of my romantic thoughts and attention going on a year now, he also became my best friend.”
This will sink you, if you let it. You need a new best friend. No, ifs, ands or buts. The therapist should help with that. LO #2 told me I was still her best friend and she wasn’t ready to give me up after we’d split and she was seeing someone else. She said she told that to the guy she was seeing to his face. I told her that if she’d told me that her ex-lover was still her best friend and she wasn’t ready to give him up, I’d have kicked her in the ass so hard she’d still be bouncing across the street.
“Do I lay it all out, confess everything I was feeling and admit the innapropriateness of what we did and request that he not contact me any further? Or do I continue to not respond to messages and just hope that he takes the hint that something has happened between me and SO?”
I recommend the former but your therapist may disagree. All three sides of this triangle know about it so there’s nothing to be gained by the ghost route. One reason people ghost is it leaves “unfinished business” you can use to justify a reengagement.
If you’re committed to it, the conversation shouldn’t be all that hard. You tell him that he got inside your head, things got away from you, you realize you’re in a Emotional Affair and you need to cut things off before you do something you really regret. Take responsibility for yourself. Know what you’re going to say in advance. Write yourself a “desk script” and stick to it.
But, you have to concede him as a best friend or any kind of friend and commit to it. Good form suggests you do this in person but you have to. That comes with risk. If you do meet in person to say goodbye, don’t let him try to negotiate and don’t let him try to hug you or kiss you goodbye. You leave first, you don’t stop for a second or two on the way out, and for God’s sake, you don’t turn around; and you don’t break down until you’re alone and out of sight.
Not that I’ve ever done anything like that.
Thank you for your reply! It has been a few days so I figure I will give an update. I agree that I would have rather had the conversation in person with LO, however my SO requested I do not meet with him anymore and I wanted to respect his wishes. I sent a long text message explaining everything. I admitted to extreme emotional attachment, physical attraction, and that I will be taking a step away from talking and meeting up so I can focus on my marriage and prevent something from happening I would regret.
It went as well as I could have hoped, and of course LO was very understanding. However, he seemed to downplay it, saying that besides being flirty we never did anything wrong and that most of our conversations and dates were just friendly chats. He was confused as to why I had to cut him off completely, but said he would always be here, and hoped we could talk and meet in the future.
I had to fight off the urge to reply. I wanted to make him understand the depth of how I was feeling, of how completely he had taken over my thoughts and my entire life! But what I needed to say was said, and there was no point. I was secretly hoping to get a likewise confession, but I know that I had built up our connection in my head with obsessions and fantasies.
Anywho, there’s a sense of freedom along with the heartache. I’m no longer obsessing over every text, wondering what he’s doing, seeking his validation, or imagining scenarios of us in my head every waking second. Almost everything still reminds me of LO, but it’s getting easier. I’m thankful for my SO’s ultimatum, because it takes the option of communication off the table completely. A big weight has lifted from no longer sneaking around and hiding things. The thought of communicating now brings anxiety, because I know how much it would hurt SO. I deleted all the messages, pictures, threw away cards, and stuffed all gifts I received into a drawer until I can look at them without hurting. I feel closer to my SO from the ordeal, and will continue to regain trust and work on our marriage.
When faced with the risk of losing SO and the life we had built together, everything I had with LO seemed so insignificant. And as with past LE’s, I know it will get easier the longer there is NC, and one day I’ll look back and everything about LO won’t seem so special. But for now, continuing NC is the only way for this feeling to fade. And that’s that!
Kat,
“My SO requested I do not meet with him anymore and I wanted to respect his wishes. I sent a long text message explaining everything.”
I applaud you for both respecting your SO’s wishes and not ghosting your LO. A lot of people would have ghosted once it got uncomfortable with the SO. I don’t think you owe your LO more than one text, but you thought enough of him not to just disappear.
How long is dissociating/ getting over the LO supposed to last… I am going on two years. I disclosed my affair to my husband in 2019 and no contact in June 2020 (so one year no contact). I still think/ obsess about LO every day. My husband doesn’t deserve this. Help
Dr. Limerance has a post on the subject here: https://livingwithlimerence.com/how-long-does-limerence-last/
This post literally knocked me over. I’d never heard of the word Limerence but have been searching for an explanation for my lack of impulse control and inability to stop lusting and fantasising over a work colleague I’ve had a PA with.
After reading your blog it’s fair to say I was unhappy in my marriage (8 years, together 15) before the PA started. It was on and off (as we both tried to stop it) for 6 months before we were finally able put an end to it in the middle of last year. It was intense and from the start of it all till this day this women has occupied my mind every single day. It’s become easier with time but the glances and eye contact from her at work make it almost impossible to move on. I don’t think she wants anything more now but the staring still happens.
My wife and I argued heavily before this happened, we’d mention divorce regularly, but as your blog states, I really made my wife the enemy and drove a wedge so massive that I believe it’s probably too late to save it.
The words exchanged over the last 12 months just can’t be taken back and I’m now moving into a 1 bed apartment and looking after our 3 kids half the week in our family home.
Maybe this has just forced what was going to happen anyway. I don’t know. I really don’t have a clear enough head space to make a sound judgement. I’d dearly love to fall back in love with my wife. There’s just so much water under the bridge now. We’re going to couples therapy while separated and I’ve been seeing a therapist specialising in schema therapy which has exposed and shone a light on some pretty narcissistic tendencies I have. I’m definitely going through a massive self awakening.
Anyway, really came on here to vent and share my experience so others know they are not alone. I’m utterly exhausted from it all and wish I’d never met her (but at the same time can’t stop thinking about her). I don’t know what to do at this point but keep going until it passes.
I know you are going through a lot of changes already, but can you get another job? I worked my LO and seeing him nearly every day dragged out my LE. At one point, I took a job on another part of the work campus, going seeing him every day to maybe once a month. Even that didn’t help. Although I didn’t go looking for him, knowing I could run into him prevented me from starting to get over him. The fact is, I associated my place of employment with him.
I’d love to say I can but opportunities for my position are very limited. I think about moving on from the business on a daily basis but I’d be looking at a demotion or a career change. Both not completely unpalatable compared to the current situation.
In the times I am able to be objective a relationship with this woman would be a total disaster. She’s much younger than me and a similar personality which in time be super confrontational.
So really I’m putting my faith in time being a healer for my LE.
Scott,
I am incredibly sorry. It would be really wonderful for you to find a way back to your marriage and your wife.
I was in a similar situation in that I too wanted to fall back in love with my husband.
I met my LO when I was freshly separated from my husband. I had moved out two weeks before. I moved out with the intent of getting a fresh perspective on things and yes, dating, after our marriage had not been doing well.
My ex-husband had difficulty with intimacy and honestly, I suspected during our marriage that he was gay or did not have the desire for intimacy. He went to therapy towards the end of our marriage and finally came clean to me about issues connected to his sexuality.
I have often wondered if LO was something I used as a reason to end things finally. I continue to feel guilt for ending our long marriage.
And I was in the midst of everything in before I understood about Limerence, I convinced myself that I was deeply in love with LO. That I had never loved my husband. Because really those two feelings cannot be compared. Limerence is so intense and unbelievable. It eclipses everything else.
Scott, good luck with everything. Separate yourself from LO as much as possible. Focus on purposeful living. We heal at different rates.
I’m 46 yr old professional/business owner in a small community, married for 18.5yrs to a wonderful, professional woman. She’s mother to our 3 kids that mean the absolute world to me. (I’m tearing up as I type this – I dont want to hurt them or her)
Our marriage isn’t what it once was, actually hasn’t been for several years. Our lives are busy, just like everyone else’s. We rarely sleep in the same bed together as she is a snorer, goes to bed much earlier than I, & I get up much earlier than her. Seems logical, but its not beneficial to our marriage. We rarely have sex, mostly because I am not interested.
My LO and I met on a random interactive website (porn)…it was incredibly serendipitous & surreal. Typically in previous visits, once the thrill is over, I and my partner would part ways, often times little to no verbal interaction, even. In this instance, we chatted some while pleasuring ourselvee & he asked for my snapchat…in an odd move for me I shared it. That started our connection. Yes, you read that right, ‘he’ asked…while I have never acted on what I call homosexual curiosities, in the past years I have explored more but only thru porn – no real life experiences. This limerence relationship, as I’m 100% convinced it is, has been mind blowing. I didn’t know I could be so intrigued, excited & perceivably connected to basically a total stranger. He doesn’t feel like a stranger anymore- we’ve really connected more than sexually. We’ve had late nite chats, any free moment when alone chatting (text, audio or video – technology is powerful), texting while sitting on the couch in the evening w/ my wife & kids nearby…this is all so very out of my character & I know its wrong but it is so exhilarating. I don’t know what to think about these sexual urges…I don’t feel like I’m gay or even bi, and if I am, my marriage & my kids will supercede anything I might be tempted as hurting them would devastate me. I know the only recourse is to NC with him. Its going to be so hard. I also know my wife & I need counseling…I really want to re-build our marriage to what it was. It helps for me to put this in text & share with you all, but any words of advice would be gladly received. Today I will end this limerent situation…but it is not going to be easy…
“My LO and I met on a random interactive website (porn)…it was incredibly serendipitous & surreal. ”
That wasn’t random. You went searching.
“texting while sitting on the couch in the evening w/ my wife & kids nearby…”
And doubling down on the betrayal.
“We rarely have sex, mostly because I am not interested.”; “I don’t feel like I’m gay or even bi, and if I am, my marriage & my kids will supercede anything I might be tempted as hurting them would devastate me.”
Now you’re using your wife as a ‘beard’ and deliberately deceiving her by hiding information that is germane to her life, marriage and psyche. Which is denigrating her.
“I also know my wife & I need counseling…I really want to re-build our marriage to what it was.”
Not possible as you now know you’re sexually attracted to men. Love her enough to free her before it twists her head and psyche badly and permanently.
Our Path (formerly Straight Spouse Network) has a very useful ‘how to come out to your spouse’ template.
Tim, the philosophy here at LwL is not to dive in with absolute, damning statements as though you know the full truth of someone else’s situation. It’s fine to offer personal experience of your own, if you think that will help illustrate important principles, but this is just a judgemental contradiction of everything Ryan has said. Please be more considerate and constructive.
“Typically in previous visits, once the thrill is over, I and my partner would part ways, often times little to no verbal interaction, even.”
“Yes, you read that right, ‘he’ asked…while I have never acted on what I call homosexual curiosities, in the past YEARS I have explored more but only thru porn – no real life experiences.”
Not a one-off. He’s been looking for a man with whom to connect for years.
Hi Ryan, and welcome.
I think there is a lot more to this than just unwanted limerence. Although his comment was unnecessarily blunt, Tim does have a point that you were actively looking for something when searching for male contact online (and not just passive images). Although unexpected, it sounds like you were psychologically open to limerence, as it were, because you were aware of problems in your marriage that have been left to deteriorate to crisis point and were looking elsewhere for connection.
In terms of recovery, here is a post that might be useful for distinguishing between dealing with the immediate limerence emergency and the longer-term work of sorting out what has been going wrong in your life and marriage:
https://livingwithlimerence.com/the-recovery-mindset/
As a final note, there is a private forum on the site which offers a less public place to share personal pain and seek specific advice. That may be a better option…
Thank you both for your replies. I left out some potentially pertinent information in my initial post. My LO is 28 (I’m 46) and he is openly gay and in a 5yr relationship. Our LE lasted approximately 20-22 days.
Today was one of the most difficult days I’ve experienced in 46 years…but as we chatted thru-out today & we shed tears together, I had a very apparent feeling that ending this today is 100% what I want. It hurts me that he is not in agreement, but I’m confident he’ll get there, too. I do care for him, or at least I did care for him. But it is over, unequivocally.
My mission now is to rebuild my relationship with my wife, and i feel that my LE lead me to this point. I dont feel the LE was right, but it wasn’t all wrong. It had to go, as it was in the way of this greater goal.
I’m not going to pretend it’s all uphill from here, but I’m finally of the mindset that I’m not too tough for counseling. And I want to include my wife. Idk what my sexual curiosities will uncover, but I do not agree with Tim’s assessment. I do appreciate his comments, however. I do not desire & never have to be in a male/male relationship. I find the male body curious & attractive but it is purely physical. I dont know what that means but it seems very small compared to my desire to become close with my wife again.
I want to be better for her. I want to be better for my kids & I want to be better for me.
At this time I do not plan to tell my wife about my LE but I think I
may someday. I’m not educated enough to know how to do that in a least-harmful way but hope my counseling will help me find clarity. I’ve never been to a counselor before, I dont know how it all works. But I will get thru as countless others have & will…
Hi Ryan,
I’m a gay man. I would like to offer a few very general thoughts on your situation, which you can accept or reject outright depending on how relevant you feel they are.
(1) The connection you feel to this stranger on the Internet might have less to do with the specific person than with you connecting with some very deep part of yourself that you don’t fully understand, and that’s why the connection feels so powerful. I.e. you’re connecting with some buried part of your own soul.
(2) Maybe the person (LO) IS the one stirring up deep feelings in you. Maybe you’ve encountered a very magnetic person. But, even if this is the case, limerence is still more about you and your inner emotional landscape than about your LO’s staggering attractiveness.
(3) As you accept different aspects of yourself and integrate them into your overall personality, you will find yourself gradually growing happier and more at peace and less prone to infatuations that feel desperate. But this process takes time and a willingness to self-reflect.
(4) Your relationship will your SO will likely improve if you both feel like you can communicate your emotions to each other clearly. That doesn’t necessarily mean you should disclose to her at this time. She might not be ready for any bombshell revelations. But keeping the emotional relationship alive is important…
(5) Limerence is life-changing, in both good and bad ways. Hopefully, you’ll walk away from this experience with enhanced self-knowledge (and profound compassion for other people going through similar struggles). But like I said, everything takes time and self-reflection.
I think homolimerence might be more distressing in some ways than heterolimerence because maybe there’s more shame involved. Not to mention the confusion!! Be gentle on yourself. But also remember to empathise with other people. E.g. totally straight people go through agonising infatuations too, so nobody is truly alone in the world, no matter what their orientation.
(6) This experience doesn’t necessarily mean you’re gay. But, even if it does, you don’t have to decide that right away. I think it just means you need to become more comfortable with all aspects of yourself and your emotions in general. When the turmoil inside yourself settles down, then you’ll be in a much better position to think about identity. Don’t make rash decisions during this time…
(7) Be gentle on yourself. I said it before and I’ll say it again. Your brain is under incredible stress right now. You’re in fight-or-flight mode. You’re probably experiencing strong anxiety daily. You might have panic attacks, insomnia, loss of appetite, crying jags, etc. Wait for things to calm down, biochemically, inside your own body. It may take months or even years, but you’ll get there in the end. The chaos of limerence doesn’t last forever. Limerence is temporary.
Take care, mate. Try and reframe your LE not as a personal tragedy but as an extraordinary learning experience. Wishing you and your wife all the best. 😛
Sammy, thank you for your insight. Last night, while both my wife & I were driving home from our respective jobs, I broke down to her. I dont cry. I dont generally show emotion, certainly nothing like this. While she pulled on the road side in her vehicle & I did the same in mine, I cried my eyes out for 2.5 hrs. I told her I was ashamed of myself for not treating her the way a good man should treat her wife, I was scared that she would leave me for being the kind of husband that I’ve been instead of what I should’ve been. I told her I felt inadequate as a man & husband when she’d get playful & I would turn her away. I was/am scared I might be a different man after this break down & she wouldn’t love me the same. I told her I want to be better & I’m willing to try but I just dont know how or what to do. I did not bring up the limerence or my sexual confusions.
She told me, thru her own tears, that this was the most emotion she’s ever remotely seen from me in our 18yrs of marriage. She’s thought of leaving me several times because of my lack of emotion, my high standards I hold her & my kids to that is unattainable & my need to always have (at least the perception) that everything on our lives is under control. But she said she loved me too much to leave.
I have my teleconference w/ a men’s counselor tomorrow morning & I’m terrified.
Having read your story Ryan, I really really feel for you! It all sounds very confusing. I sincerely hope your counselling sessions help you find the support and clarity you need.
I have to say that I also really hope that your sessions help you find the courage and words to explain your sexual confusion to your SO as I think it is best for both of you. Obviously I say this without knowing either of you but from what you have said above, my gut instincts say it is the right thing to do.
I told my SO about my LE (no EA or PA involved) a couple of months in. I framed it very carefully, re-assuring him that it made no difference to my feelings for him or our marriage – he would always be my No.1. He has been very understanding and supportive throughout my LE and it is a such a relief not to have hide it. If anything, disclosing to my SO brought us closer together.
Obviously I am respectful of his feelings so do not shove it in his face unnecessarily either.
Good luck with your counselling sessions.
I’m glad i came across this post, you really took time to say some amazing fact that touched most of us especially if you recognize yourself as being limerent which I didn’t realize until now.
My situation is a bit complex, married for 15 years to a controlling and narcissistic man. Marital problems caused me to develop a crush on my co worker who is married and I knew deep down nothing could happen between us. He was just a good and amazing friend which my husband was until he decided to change into a man who is not what I was married too. I knew the moment I started having feelings for that colleague it was wrong but It was also very sweet that I didn’t want to stop myself but to just continue with my fantasies. I never wanted to act upon those feelings even though it became more obvious for my colleague about how I was feeling for him…him on the other hand didn’t want to give in even though I could see at times that he had feelings but was trying his best not to express them. But it was just too obvious to others that me and this guy were just too close, of course my husband also could feel there was something wrong with me. He confronted me and I told him the truth about my feelings for this other person who was just a better version of my husband. I told him nothing happened between me and my colleague but he wasn’t satisfied as he felt that I was lying until he called that guy to question him. Even though that guy told him that I knew how your wife was feeling but I didn’t entertain those feelings so we maintained a pretty good relationship.
On my side, I started working on myself to get my feelings in order and fixing my marriage. The guy left the company I was working which made it a bit easier for me to work on myself even if I still had those moment of glimpse.
My husband and I went through a lot of talks as he wanted to understand the why I let another man replace him…I tried to make him understand it was because we were not friends anymore, he was more of a commander and me I could only have the option to submit even if I don’t really agree.
While we were discussing, he opened up to sat that most of the times I used to make him angry he used to go sleep with prostitutes…he justified himself saying there was no emotion attached and what I did was way worse than what he did. I was very hurt by that but we decided to work on our marriage cause none of us wanted to go out.
While working on ourselves, he decided to impersonate that colleague of mine through Facebook just to try and get more answers. I thought it was the real person, my feelings were overwhelmed, I really didn’t know how to feel, a mixture of excitement for I was able to hear him say things that I always wished he would say but also fear that unfortunately I have moved on and cannot really follow that course. I tried hard to shun by not really getting involve in long conversations and I used to update my husband every single time I would receive a message from my so colleague. My husband would get angry if I told him that I answered the person even if I would try to keep it short, he told me if I keep on responding back to the guy it is because I still love him. So I started ignoring his messages and not responding.
He was putting so much pressure on me, getting angry for his own messages little did I know. For the sake of peace I decided to block the person, as the conversation were not really interesting if not greetings.
Only after I block the guy on Facebook, few weeks down the line I was trying to check the list of my block people that I saw under the person’s name my husband email address.
I was furious cause I knew he played with my feelings, I was trying to move on but he kept on bringing me back, what he didn’t know was that deep down I was longing for that person to respond to my feelings positively. He wasn’t helping me to really move on by trying to be constantly present on social media.
He tried to justify himself by saying he wanted to know if I really changed as he couldn’t read my mind. I never like that situation, being played with my real feelings…
He eventually apologized.
Now, my problem is I have these moments that comes in episode if I feel not being considered by my husband, my mind will think about that person as to try and cheer myself and feel happy. I know that is not good and the reason I came across this post just in search of need to solve myself.
.Q