Becoming more self-aware is a core skill for recovering from limerence. The ability to detach your self-scrutiny from your moment-to-moment emotional state allows you to be more aware of what you are thinking and feeling, and what it means. In OCD treatment this is sometimes called “mindful awareness” – the ability to recognise “I am having an obsessive thought” grants you more executive control over how you react to it. It’s a bit like you are a documentary filmmaker recording your own life, dispassionately observing what is going on, rather than being helplessly caught up in the action.
One of the unexpected (but beneficial) consequences of becoming generally more adept at watching yourself as a “detached observer” is that it carries on after the worst of the limerence passes. That brings us to the theme of today’s post: how to tell you are recovering.
Friend of the blog Jaideux proposed this theme, based on her own experiences:
I was realizing that my personality and interests are slowly returning to the pre-LE Jaideux and I am so fascinated about how the LE effectively denuded the verdant forest that was my life, leaving a wasteland in its wake, with just the LO dominating the landscape, but now, thankfully, the forest is starting to regenerate…
So…I was thinking how nice it would be, and inspiring too, to have a post about “signs of recovery” and see how the recovering limerents weigh in.
What a good idea!
Here are a few of the milestones that helped me realise I had turned the corner from compulsive craving to emotional stability. For those of us who have been through the wringer and recovered, please do add your own to the comments.
Interest in other things
In the depths of limerence, I couldn’t concentrate on anything. Thoughts of LO cascaded continually into my mind and I would seek out solitude so I could really concentrate on them (and let the backed-up flood discharge). This became a major irritant, and meant it was impossible to read or write or listen actively to other people.
Once I’d begun to make headway (ha, pun!) with the mental reprogramming, I could sometimes get back into that state of immersion. Lost in what I was doing in the moment. What’s sometimes called “flow state” where external sensory stimuli recede, and you lose track of time and environment, came back. As I emerged, I would realise I’d been lost in thought about other things.
Length of time between cravings
Another good indicator of recovery was the increasing time between bouts of craving. For me recovery was a process of fits and starts. I trialled different deprogramming tactics some of which worked better than others. Once I’d got the recovery mindset straight, it was noticeable that the time between LO-seeking urges lengthened. From constant, intrusive thoughts, to intermittent craving, to occasional relapses; the widening periods of mental freedom were good indicators that the plan was working.
Music
I could listen to new music and not link it to LO. That was freeing. Sometimes I listen to albums that I was particularly keen on during the limerence period and get a little retrospective pang, but that has almost passed too. In fact, that leads to the next milestone…
Nostalgia disappointment
There’s a weird thing about nostalgia, which I’m starting to spot more frequently these days (especially since living more purposefully). Nostalgia is a surprisingly powerful emotional force, but it’s another good case of “it’s all happening in your head”. That nostalgic impulse is basically a desire to recover old feelings. We think back to fond experiences that brought joy or comfort or fulfilment, and want to return to a situation in which we feel that way again. But it’s futile to try.
I learned this first on a trip back to the seaside village where I used to go on holiday with my family as a kid. I expected to feel the same happy, innocent freedom of youth. Nah. For the first time, I had the experience of nostalgia disappointment: the village was familiar and just as pleasant to stay in, but the feelings never arrived. I had changed too much.
Similarly, my nostalgic memory of LO is not the reality of the person. Occasionally, I’ll see pictures of her on social media or hear about her indirectly, but it no longer provokes a limerent response. There’s still a glimmer, of course, but nothing like the old emotional response. That’s a pretty good indicator that all that’s left is my memory.
Sleep
I really had trouble sleeping during the LE. Lying awake replaying the events of the day, rehearsing what I could say tomorrow, even dreaming about LO when the sleep finally came.
The first morning I woke up refreshed and feeling good – and didn’t immediately think about LO – was a major landmark.
As time went on, and these indicators of recovery became my new normal, life got better. It felt like casting off a burden. It took solid, disciplined grind to get through the pain of resistance, but once freed, I remember what it was like to have a free-roaming mind again. As Jaideux puts it, it feels wonderful to rediscover your limerence-free personality, and enjoy the expansive ease of liberation.
Here’s to personal regeneration.
Agree with all your points above, and would add (although they are linked to what you mentioned):
Not having a strong emotional response anymore when thinking about LO, e.g. no longer longing for LO, not being as angry at LO, not feeling intensely sad.
Not wanting to indulge in ruminations. Even if a nice memory comes up, I don’t need to actively distract myself anymore. The one thought doesn’t lead to the next, etc.
Music is a good one too: not feeling the emotion anymore, but rather neutrally remembering that it used to evoke a certain emotion in me.
And I’d say realizing that the things LO gave me (like listening to my parenting struggles, hearing my frustrations at work, a good chat etc) I can also get from other people. It doesn’t have to be everything combined in one person, but a lot of people can give me each a little bit, and that suffices. I can split LO onto various people and therefore don’t need LO anymore.
Yes, that’s a good one – the emotional range is much reduced. The highs are lower and the lows are higher.
Yay! I love this topic!
Yes, music! I have been returning to my music collection that (other than listening to my LO specific songs that were the soundtrack of my LE ) I had long neglected. I realize that for a few years I had preferred silence at home as I needed the quiet to concentrate on the ever-present analysis of my interactions with LO. I now am finding much pleasure immersing myself in my music (most of it pre-LE) and it is reinforcing the idea fact that I don’t need LO to be happy. I can listen without the presence of imaginary LO.
And books! My brain is out of limerent prison enough to enjoy books again!
And people…to enjoy my tribe of friends without thinking about LO and wanting him to meet them or telling them about some wonderful thing he did or said… or wondering if I should share with them the depth of fascination I have with him ….what a relief! He was an interloper, I see that now.
And in my day to day operations: Sarah it’s so true … a composite of people, a team, can serve as a much healthier source of advice and support than one problematic, emotionally charged Great Advisor in the form of LO. It’s not wise to be so dependent on one human for happiness !!!
And I am finding creative urges coming back, little artistic projects and culinary creations and all sorts of mini-accomplishments I incredibly no longer crave LOs approval of. I have no further need to try to impress him.
I could go on and on.
Actually Dr. L, perhaps the most obvious initial green shoot of recovery is that we recognized we needed help and found this site. 😊. May those green shoots of recovery become a forest for us all.
Thanks Jaideux for the inspection for the lovely positive post. My fav post yet! Glad your finding yourself again. I too got so lost in my LE I did not even know what I was any more. Great stuff 😊
Inspiration*
This was a lovely idea, thanks for suggesting it. Love the shoots/forest theme. Wishing everyone lots of verdure!
Here are a few contributions:
– one day last week I was starting to feel slightly stressed, and I started to mentally, emotionally, reach for something comforting. I really could not remember what I was looking for. Then suddenly I realized, I hadn’t thought about much this LE, much less LO for a week or so. Even though I’ve been swinging by here to read comments, it’s been more to silently sympathize, rather than to take solace. Hang in there, it’s hard to believe in the thick of it, but LEs do end! Much compassion for everyone.
– When I saw LO’s name on a list the other day, I felt…. nothing. Just nothing. Finally, LO just seemed kind of average. What was so mesmerizing
anyway? Then I started to think from a LO point of view, my limerent feelings had been really kind of weird, pitiful and well, creepy. Soooooo glad LO was completely unaware of them.
– the range and scope of my interests has broadened and opened back up again. How could they have narrowed down to just one single focus?
It’s been a humbling experience, and very mind expanding. Great thanks once again to Dr. L, and to everyone for their candor.
Yasssss Sarah! 😊 I’m so pleased for you. This is a just a blip in your life which was painful at the time but I can imagine so many lessons have been learned and I say that for myself as well.
Yes, lots of lessons learnt, hopefully! But having found this site was so useful to understand the situation better. I am also amazed people don’t know about limerence at all. That should be in psychology 101 or something.
Blip in my life that almost destroyed everything… now that’s definitely an eye opener.
How are you doing, Rachel?
So crazy. Yes I am ok actually. Missing parts of LO but not as much as I’m appreciating the new found physical distance, which is giving me a huge sense of relief. It’s over, the test is now to stay strong and don’t reach out. Also NC is the best for the both of us I feel and I’m ok about it. I’d rather go through this temporary sadness than ever go back to the agonising feelings of limerence. So that’s more focus to keep going.
Are things better at home with you now? Absolutely agree on psychology 101!
But isn’t it so weird that most people don’t experience the highs and lows of limerence ever in the life. Before I found this site, I thought that is how everybody felt when falling for somebody… Madness.
Yeah definitely do not reach out, and if he does, stay neutral and keep it short. Do not ask anything that would keep the conversation going.
It would be interesting to know how many people do not feel limerence, and how they experience love. Given all the music, films etc that evolve around limerence, it can’t be that little percentage.
I also seriously thought that all people in love suffer untill I started to ask and most people say ” no, I enjoy it and if it doesn’t work it’s okay too”.
( Instead of if it doesn’t work which is too hard to even think off, so I think about it 24-7, I will die. )
I had an epiphany. HOW DO THEY DO THAT !
I wonder if it is just my own insecurity that makes me “go crazy”. I think any relationship I had was not great at the beginning as I felt like I should not indulge fully as it will be so painful if it ends. And that usually just made me start analyzing any detail to see if this was the beginning of the end.
Not sure how much that is connected to limerence or if it has rather something to do with my personality traits.
Sarah, anxiety in the beginning of a relationship, scared of the avalanche of pain that might come when you really like someone starting to look into every detail ( No kiss emoji?.omg yesterday he did sent a kiss emoji, yep here we go, I knew it, better prepare for the heartbreak) is I think one of the traitmarks of limerence! Ruined some of my beginning relationship for sure . I couldn’t deal with the constant feeling of being abandoned, even when I was not. I tried to hide this From LO but there is only so much you can hide.
Yes, that would be classic me in almost all my relationships. Tried to hide it as well. Eventually I’d break up with the guy as I thought it would be a matter of time until he broke up with me.
I think we limerent have A low self-esteem somehow in the beginning of relationships , and B what’s worse, we knòw that we’re not very good in being rejected, we know as limerent that if the relationship would strand we will not dust ourselves off and walk on, oh no we will have to go through the whole damn, heartbreaking, wanting to kill ourselves, crushing crying withdraw and slowly climb out of the darkness to re invent ourselves freaking process again.
That’s not something to look forward too to say the least. So we try to protect ourself in a anxiety coping mechanisms by being hyper alert.
Yeah, I think that’s a valid assessment, Mia.
Nice post Dr. L and anaology Jaideux. I am in the midst of 2 months NC, reading every blog on this site with much resonance, and emerging from lockdown. All helping and so appreciative!
By the end of this LE, LO was controlling all contact — all on their terms, timing, and depth — if that didn’t denude my forest I don’t know what would. My days were becoming full of Churchill’s black dog, a huge bank of dark clouds had settled on my consciousness every waking hour — even with contact. I had to surrender it to my higher power because I felt so controlled that the situation had become intolerable. I wanted out. Higher power took care of it immediately in a way that couldn’t deny existence and with the added bonus of LE ending embarrassingly enough I will NEVER want to see LO again, even though (limerent’s dream) disclosure seeped out on both sides.
Now to the green shoot, I’m having all of the indicators above and still return frequently to thoughts of LO, but less than before and they are of a lighter tone. I’m not exactly making them over in my mind to be angelic and perfect, a torch I will always hold, but am trying to redirect any attempt to do so to reflect on the reality of what this experience has been (hellish really), build self-awareness, and hoping it will never happen again. I’ve been told that I’m an optimist and one who sees the good in every situation and person. Ha!
Yesterday, for the first time in many months I was able to go on a wonderful hike, lunch in a restaurant with friends (topped off with shopping and a peanutbutter milkshake), and what a green shoot it was. Loved the freedom on many levels! I agree with Sarah that we can look to others for encouragement (e.g., this website or expanding our network of friends). Thank you as always!
So recognisable! In the last week’s I felt like LO controlled all contact, his terms, his pase, I felt silly or even scared for reaching out, I felt I had to almost apologize for my existence. I felt like a puppet on a string hoping I would not miss his maybe call today, better carry my phone 24-7 with me, while LO switched his one of for days while enjoying walking in nature. I don’t blame him for anything really it was me who went overboard, yes LO was also crazy in love untill till he wasn’t anymore.
It seems you are on a very good path recovering I hope limerent ! Hope we all have our peanut butter milkshake any day soon !
Yes! Thus, the entrance of a pesky tech watch. No missed texts or phone calls. I too thought everyone felt as deeply as I do, until I noticed how blithely former loves recovered. Sigh… I hope you have a better day today Mia. Maybe some self love is in order today! Treat yourself to something nice!
I even gave LO his own ringtone on what’s app so I could hear immediately that the incoming text was from him.
Crunching. Still get a shock whenever I hear the ringtone.
I actually did have a better day today L I R I H. Thank you! I bought myself a vase I’ve always wanted and flowers.
Not there yet but not crawling on the floor anymore either.
Sneaky thoughts creap in as Dr L predicted, ” I feel good and strong, maybe if LO could see me like this…”
Resistance!
Beautiful vase and flowered are perfect and positive! It would be hard to hear that ring tone though…
Luckily that pesky tech watch reminds me to breathe, and it’s usually when I’m thinking about LO… Ha, ha! It’s an annoying reminder to get out of the reverie and do something else.
I tried a home pedicure and while it is not pretty, it helped 😊
Thinking about the tech watch to never miss a call, there should be a page where we can write the crazy lengths we went for our LO, it must be so entertaining, recognisable and funny in a sad light way.
Reading this from other people , and the similarly in general in behaviour during limerence people have helps me a lot.
I also read a few times ” LO has the life I want”.
Also recognised, my LO is a nature photographer and travels the world, something I’ve been dreaming of for so long, but couldn’t because I was married and have a kid.
( The fact that he is also very non adventures introvert and boring in daily life is filtered out by my limerence ).
Limerence seeks what it starves for I guess.
@ Sarah,
I have a question I’m interested in, you say you couldn’t handle the anxiety in the beginning of your relationships, (like me) does it always start like that or was there already some sort of obstacle. Anything ?
Or was the love 100 % reciprocal, normal guys, and nothing stood in your way and you still ended it due to insecurity?
For me I’m not sure, obstacle fire it up for sure, but also the realisation “I really like this guy” was enough to go to anxiety crazy town.
No obstacles, just two singles that started dating. Most of my relationships ended after 3-4 months. The first couple of relationships ended by the guy, as I moved internationally and they thought there’s no point (not what they told me at the time, but years later told me that was the reason).
Then, a few years later, as I got older and relationships eventually more serious in the mid 20s, I was afraid of the moment when I realized that I actually REALLY like the guy and it would really hurt me if he left. I only ended a relationship once due to the fact that I couldn’t handle the anxiety and distracting thoughts, but that was during my finals at university and I really didn’t want to screw up my degree.
I also hated to be introduced as a girlfriend early on as I thought why put a label on it at that early stage if in a few months I have to explain to friends again why it didn’t work out this time…
I tried to leave a guy only one more time (my now husband), but he didn’t let me go, he asked what he needs to do for me to reconsider. We talked, I reconsidered, we stayed together.
@Sarah, that sounds beautiful. And hopefull I must say. :).
I never thought I would get to the point where I could relate to this completely. Thank you for putting all this into words, Sarah. It’s been a long 22 months, but one day a couple of weeks ago I woke up not caring and indeed haven’t since. Still think about him every hour or so, but only to marvel at how a month ago I would have moved the universe for him and now I simply feel the same way about him as my other classmates.
I appear to have miscounted the first time. To anyone planting the seeds of recovery, I am pleased to reassure you that the 18 months-3 years timeline is scarily accurate. There is an end to this!
For me, the very first sign was a good portion of genuine laughter.
Even though I’m still far from full recovery, I cherish that laughter moment so dearly.
Ooh good one.
I am still struggling with my recovery. I was doing so well until I saw him the other day after a long period of quarantine. I keep replaying our interaction in my mind and feel like I messed up. I am filled with sadness and nostalgia for the friendship we used to have. Ugh, these relapses are the worst.
Yeah, relapses stink. But the fact that you can now see that you were doing well (and what that felt like) is good confirmation that you were on the road to recovery, even though you’ve had a setback.
Thank you. I needed that positivity.
Great topic! I’m coming up on a year of NC. I’ve been able to live more purposefully, including starting a new job in a great company. I don’t troll social media for her but did recently see images of her with other “friends”. I didn’t have an LE response but did reflect on how far I’ve come. I stupidly admit that I’ve wondered whether she’s had any thoughts about me. My exec brain tells me no, and why should i care.
Encouraging – thank you, Lowendji!
Getting through recovery feels like such an enormous crisis I feel like I have to build myself up again from the ground. I completely lost myself in the last 9 months. In the last week there where two moments, in between crying and fysical pain, where I went to bed with some sort of feeling of satisfaction and this week I actually put on lipstick again, before I couldn’t be bothered how I looked now LO was gone. That was my little green sprout.
Mia!
That is a wonderful little green sprout! May it grow into a forest.
You are such a gentle soul Jaideux . You help others a lot on this site.
Xoxoxoxo
Agreed, Jaideux. I will tone down my posts eventually. It feels so good to vent… Thanks 🙂
Good post. I’m mainly interested in hearing feedback about your individual experiences regarding HOW LONG it took to get to the final stages of recovery. I’m way over the “average” length of limerance, it being over 3 years and it’s as nothing has changed since 2017 when I first met him. This scares the shit out of me (sorry, need to moderate my potty mouth), and I often think to myself whether I’ll become one of the few who simply never will get over the experience. Surely, some days are better than others as the ruminations and depressive episodes lift temporarily but ultimately, it’s been a three year mental torture.
As for making progress… those of you who aren’t married, would you think dating other people could help? I have tried it very briefly before covid and as you can imagine, everything reverted back to LO because my dates simply weren’t whom I ultimately wanted. So the comparisons killed the experience.
Also, I’m interested in knowing if exercise helped you. I yet to start on picking a sport I can take on, if only as a temporarily distraction. When racing thoughts about LO kick in, I feel as I’m going insane.
Hey A_S, I have so been there! Sooooooo been there…
My last LE was 7 years long. (I am a serial limerent, sadly). I cannot tell you how excruciating it was to let go. Perhaps the most painful experience of my life and I have been through a LOT. I honestly felt every day was agony, and I felt like all the color had drained out of my technicolor limerent world. I couldn’t ever imagine any color would ever return…it seemed impossible.
I am now ‘in recovery’ and am amazed at the progress, and my zest for life (I never expected to have recovered this much!) and my life is back in color…perhaps not the synthetic flourescence of limerence, but quite beautiful (perhaps MORE beautiful) in its variety and hue, colors true…some subtle, some vivid, but all real.
I attribute my progress to:
(Not in order of importance)
1. NC
2. No social Media
3. My discovery and involvement in this site, and now that I am healing, feeling accountable …. to set the right example and being supportive of others in their journey.
4. Self discipline and thought control.
5. Divine assistance.
6. Purposeful living.
I honestly never thought I could break the ‘addiction’, and now feel a measure of compassion for addicts of all sorts that I never had before. Until LwL I never realized that I was an addict! I just knew I was a person of deep feeling and had a series of romantic almost relationships that were disappointing the the extreme.
I also have had a real life real romantic relationship that started with limerence, which cooled, then was so aggressively pursued by the former LO that I ended up married to him. Not good. At all. So … for me, starting off wildly limerent for a person is a red flag not to get further involved, even if the limerent decided that I was the ‘one’ after all. As far as dating, not for me at the moment. I think I am finally really getting healthy mentally and emotionally and want to make more progress before being open to a relationship. Maybe someday, maybe never….I just want to stay as happy as I am and not ruin my progress. If take the right steps you WILL get over this experience, and hopefully never repeat it!
Thank you for sharing.
I agree on the red flag, Sarah, if the relationship starts off as limerent (from a single person’s point of view). It’s fueled by uncertainty and that makes it so hard if the uncertainty lasts. I’m starting to realise I was limerent in my single days too.
I was limerent for my SO somewhat but he quickly made me feel secure and loved, and it settled to something very nice, reassuring, and an exploration of a whole new world as a couple. No question about his love and no drama was such a refreshing change!
Interesting though that the two disruptive LEs came about when SO was extremely not available. Hate to think he’s my crutch in life, but is that what marriage is? To help each other navigate the confusing world? He’s so much more secure than me… Sigh… This last one opened up all kinds of self awareness, good and bad, for both of us. I don’t think either one of us were very good about voicing our needs, but we are certainly doing that now — much more communication and transparency.
I haven’t worked up to talking about limerence though (didn’t learn about it until recently). Should I? I’m in NC at his urging and support, and while still struggling somewhat — and he can tell when that is happening — feel we’ve come out the other side. It seems like this would up the pain level at this point instead of helping him understand. We know what my trigger is now.
LO is probably still understandably confused and I wish him well, but not my problem — he’s got issues and triggers of his own to work out…
@Jaideux
Great list! Thank you
@Janesays…thanks 🙂 but let me clarify. When I said ‘no social media’ I meant that I unfollowed LO, but still enjoy some social media, seeing what friends are up to, cat videos, etc. Hope your forest of recovery is growing with wild abandon!
@,jadeux, how long did it take you to get here? When did you go in nc / Recovery .
@mia it’s been since January 2019 that I went extremely LC and then about one year ago I went NC and shortly thereafter unfollowed on social media. About 3 years ago or so one of my friends said “have you heard of limerence? (I had not). I think you should research it.” I had been working hard to stop the obsessiveness for several years before then and searching for solutions….I began a notebook for my research and had a folder on my phone for quick reference and would write down relevant thoughts and screenshot things that I thought would help. I found this site a couple or years ago after looking at others and it was extremely helpful and I loved the lack of rancor toward the LO and the overall positivity of it. There have been ups and downs all along the way….but overall progress I am happy to say! It’s taken lots of hard work and lots of support …and the fact that LO found a SO helped enormously (even though he wanted to continue our close, close friendship. He just didn’t get it….even though I had disclosed). Bizarre!
So the short answer…it took me about a year since NC started to recover to the point of feeling consistently happy again.
As I just commented elsewhere on this site, I do feel like my limerence is very slowly subsiding (although it isn’t a linear process at all, and I often find myself regressing to earlier stages of limerence). Some of the signs of recovery for me include better concentration, improved work performance, a return to activities and interests I was focused on before my LE and that detached self-awareness Dr. L refers to above. I now understand and am better able to manage my ruminations, but I don’t try to stop them entirely because I realize my subconscious mind would rebel if I tried to eliminate limerent thoughts altogether. Still, I am better able to compartmentalize my limerent thoughts and restrict them to places and times where they aren’t so destructive or unhealthy (such as when I am walking the dog). I can also turn my attention to other thoughts much more easily when I need to.
One tactic I recently tried that I found helpful was to e-mail myself a fairly lengthy paragraph detailing all of the reasons why my limerence is stupid and illogical. Sometimes when I start to ruminate, I read over that paragraph and it seems to help. Another feeling I find helpful is getting bored with myself thinking the same thoughts over and over again. I tell myself this is getting really boring and is a colossal waste of my time and energy. It’s like Groundhog Day thinking the same thoughts over and over again. I tell myself how boring I have become and how there is so much more to my personality than this. I also included these thoughts in my paragraph to myself. Still, I am not out of the woods yet. I just came back from a long walk full of limerent ruminations. However, I think I am going to read my paragraph right now to remind myself how stupid, illogical and counterproductive all of this really is.
VL….that was funny! Having the same thoughts over and over IS boring! I replayed the same scenarios hundreds of times…
So I like your paragraph idea. I will sometimes read my posts here (and others) and copy and past them into an email and email myself. I read them a few times and then save them to a folder. I look at the folder from time to time and pat myself on the back for how far I have come….it’s a snowball effect…once you get some traction you just keep rolling faster and faster….
Insanity check here: do any of you experienced years long existence of being able to fully function (as in holding onto a job, raising children, house chores, etc.) and YET thinking about LO each and every fucking day? It’s mentally exhausting but have been possible for me.
I think of LO every second, and I mean litterary every second of the day and night and i havent seen him in 4 months. Everything is a trigger, even the colour green ( LO has a strong connection with nature) If i had to make a list with triggers you would laugh, my life is one big trigger wanting me to think about LO. It absolutely drives me nuts but it is what it is. I have faith it wil fade eventually. Corona did not do me any good since i think i need a change of scenary . ( sorry for spelling mistakes im not englisch) But i do manage to do my work, and raise kids and not make my house a mess. I have no other option. I just keep my tears away from my son and force myself to concentrate on work sometimes. We are all in this together Anxcious, you are not alone
With respect to LO #2, that describes 30 years of my life. I don’t remember it being a problem in the years immediately following my marriage but as the years went on and problems arose in my marriage, it rose to a crescendo. Once I took it on and figured it out, it’s not so bad.
Interesting things still come up. My wife went shopping Sunday. My daughter and I were killing time watching the movie “Stand By Me” on cable. There was about a half-hour left and I wanted to finish it. My wife came home, saw it was on and asked, “What is it about that movie that appeals to you?” That was a loaded question.
“Stand By Me” came out in 1986. LO #2 had declined my marriage proposal on Christmas morning, 1985 (it ruined Christmas for years). She became a gypsy nurse and moved across the country in mid-1986 but we remained together on paper. For Xmas, 1986, she gave me a cassette of the soundtrack to the movie. She said that she’d seen it and one of the characters in the movie reminder her of me. I hadn’t seen the movie and I didn’t ask which character. After seeing snippets of it, I thought I knew which one and narrowed it down to two. I’d never seen the movie from beginning to end until last Sunday. After watching a scene I’d never seen before, I’m pretty sure I know who it was that reminded her of me. LO #2 had seen pictures of me as a kid and I looked like one of them but it was what he said that clinched it. I hung on to the cassette for years. We ran across it and my wife asked why we still had it. Since, I couldn’t tell my wife that story and cassettes were out of vogue, I got rid of it.
That’s what makes this place so great, I can vent and explore with no disruption in the rest of my life.
I sure as hell hope i will not be in this LE for 30 years! 🙂 Im happily recently devorced, i have a super nice job, I have a great kid, I want hapiness to beguin NOW . Unfortionately there is a massive, and I mean massive LE standing in my way to hapiness, but sometimes I can almost taste it. Its going to be a long proces, and the pain ( or war in my body and head) are still very much there every second but im also so geatfull for this site, I had a big LE when I was 23 and I did not know of Limerence, the pain and lonelyness I experienced than was even worse, since I didnt know what the hell happened and I hold on to hope as a relief for too long.
V_L this is so true about the same ruminations over and over becoming boring, I’ve found the same thing, and my contact with LO is so very limited (social media only), that I’m finding it difficult to come up with new ones….since we have been given a slight bit more freedom over this pandemic, I’ve managed to get back to babysitting my great granddaughters again, which has given me a huge distraction…could this be the beginning of recovery, I hope so….I like the idea of emailing myself about how silly and ridiculous this whole LE is, perhaps seeing it in writing, it might have more impact, I sure hope so…..here’s to many, many green shoots of recovery for all of us……..so we may get on with our lives…
Maureen, I truly hope that happily babysitting is the evidence of green shoots! I would love you to get free of this chokehold of limerence….and thoroughly enjoy your sweet life. There is sweetness for sure….those great grand daughters for instance!
Keep us posted…
Hi Jaideus and everyone….well I think someone has poured weed killer on my green shoots…after I thought things were looking up, somehow it’s all taken an about turn…I’m sad to admit that I’ve been messaging and following LO on line every moment that I could…talk about relapse…..I guess the babysitting was just a temporary distraction…it hasn’t helped that hubby has had to have yet another surgery today for his dialysis…….and it seems that during these difficult times is when I feel most vulnerable, and turn to the computer……(although the LE began during a particularly happy time whilst on vacation)…so dunno….I guess I have to try to regroup, and try to nurture those green shoots back to growing again…..hope everyone is doing well…x I sure wish that I could replace the highs of seeing LO on line with something else, like eating chocolate for instance…..that I could manage, ha,ha,ha…
Hey Maureen! I had to laugh at the chocolate comment and then do a scientific experiment. Methinks the chocolate melting in my mouth right now IS killing off the last bits of limerence! 🙂 Seriously though… I think you are starting to crack the code. Can you replace the LO contact and following with sow thing you enjoy? It won’t be the same intensity of hit but will be healthier!
Hello fellow limerents, I’m having a difficult day / relapse and I’m turning to you. Most of you seem to be further in the proces. I was getting a lttle better after NC 18 days and than yesterday drank too much during a diner party (or ate not enough due to lack of appetite) and kissed ( yes I’m oversharing, that’s the next thing to work on) the friend of a friend.
Leaving me today with feelings of shame, a hangover depression, love hormones ( dropping today as well, so I’m in dubble withdraw ) from the kissing projecting towards LO so my craving and obsession with LO is worse than ever.
I hope this is my lowest point because the pain is so intens there are times during the day / night I think I can’t cope with it. I’ve never been so messed up it’s like I don’t know who I am anymore. like I have to completely re invent myself for a guy who I spent 12 days with in total!
Thank god I kept the NC with LO during my drunk evening.
Lesson learned I guess, no alcohol during recovery and no kissing even though I’m single, in this fragile state. It’s destructive and undermining my self worth.
I will try to get back to self-care this week.
Did anyone think they would actually die sometimes from the pain during recovery? I know it sounds dramatic and I know I will not die but sometimes after the intense stomac cramps and a cry session I just stare at the ceiling feeling so numb, i know cognitively it will get better.
I’m also so amazed that no one knows limerence . Maybe one day I will put effort in that, treat people with limerence , sounds like a purposefull task.
I’m a bit scared I will never love without limerence, since I always have my whole life, even as a 8 year old and some of the LE ( most) became healthy relationships, so i can not automatically see it as a red flag, and now after a 15 year marriage without fysical connection I feel I have so much love to give I can burst, guess I have to give that love to myself first, more to talk about in therapy.
Thank you all for helping.
Mia I’m sorry to hear that you are struggling. Remember to be kind to yourself, you are going through a lot at the moment and this is really hard. I can very much empathise with heroin addicts now, sometimes the withdrawal is too much to bare. But I truly believe there is light at the end of the tunnel for myself and for your.
Concentrate on yourself. You mind is not well at the moment and you need to work on you. You are important and you are worth so much.
I actually thought about taking my own life when I initially start to withdraw a while ago. That all seems kind of dramatic to me now but at the time the pain hurt so much.
There’s a lovely comment on here which I found so helpful. I will try to find it now for you and comment.
You are not alone.
Thank you so much Rachel,
It helps, knowing others feel the same amount of pain, not that I want other people to have pain but to know that there is nothing wrong with me (well except limerence addiction etc) for feeling THIS low.
One day at a time.
If you look at this as an addiction, your essentially going cold turkey.
Try not to drink would be my only advise. Talking from my own experience it makes it SO worse.
There is a slight comfort in knowing your not alone. It sounds as though your going though a big change by the sounds of your circumstances and this will be hard but try and sit with the pain. Emotional pain won’t kill you even though it feels like it at the time.
I felt physical pain of heart so severe I thought I might have a heart attack. It’s a real thing.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takotsubo_cardiomyopathy
It’s called severe anxiety and yes, it could lead to cardio complications.
Mia, you should be so proud of yourself for not breaking NC while drinking. During the highs of my LE, no way I should be able to resist. That’s already a small, but significant victory.
Thank you so much 🙂
I started drinking after LO rejected me. Not heavily but on regular basis. That’s usually when the urge to reach out kicks in 🙁
But I haven’t because I know I’ll feel like shit the very next day.
Good for you! And thanks for sharing. 🙂
Thanks for , The green Shots of Recovery. Appreciate the vision of recovery & recognize a shift in weakness in symptoms of addiction to my one & only & to my beliefs that kept me stuck. My confidence is better because here keeping the mindset on track walking uphill & awaiting a vision of the landscape is helpful. Thanks.
Hi, guys.
Great piece, drL.
I was wondering, is it “a green sprout” if I was little bored this morning when I had received text from LO? It was the first time in almost a year that I wasn’t excited, and I didn’t even have any desire to reply.
Sounds like not only a sprout but a whole damn tree bursting out to eventually fill a Forrest !
I would almost say congratulations.
Thanks, Mia…
It’s so amazing to read such a supportive comment…
DD – that’s a good sign! The dance gets so old after a while…
A few of my milestones:
– being able to get through a meeting, tv programme or car/train journey without thinking about her. I’d then realise I’d achieved it and think about her 🤦🏻♂️ but small steps!
– being intimate with my SO, without fantasising about LO
– hearing or reading her name and not having my stomach flip over (that one is pretty recent, after 18m NC)
– not having everything remind me of her: be it music, restaurants, pubs, tv shows that we talked about, went to together
– not feeling compelled to talk about her anymore. I used to talk about her all the time, and even in NC I’d manage to swing conversations around so that someone would ask me about her and I could launch into the whole story
– getting the glimmer again. For 2+ years it was only LO, no-one else was interesting to me. I’ve since got the glimmer from someone new, and whilst I’m being very careful to avoid another LE, it’s a breakthrough that someone else has even caught my attention
Oh, not talk about LO anymore, that’s a good one. I also used to talk about LO with people that have met him (random stuff, nothing important really). In the end, I figured I need to stop doing that to stop LO from being on my mind. At that point, I was worried about people mentioning him to me. But I had to realize, no one asked about him, not a single time. No one cares… and neither should I 🙂
Yeah my thing was manoeuvring the conversation around to get them to ask something like “have you spoken to LO lately?”, to which I said no, then seeing the confusion on their face, next would be “oh, how come?” and then I’d tell the tale about how we “split up”. I got a kick out of it, and hoped they’d say something like “you could tell she was into you” or similar.
It actually took a mate of mine to roll his eyes and say “urgh it always comes back to her doesn’t it?” to snap me out of it. I’d never want to be that guy with one topic of conversation and yet here I was turning into an LO bore.
It may have been the only movie playing in my theatre, but no-one else wanted to join me for the endless re-runs. Eventually though, In NC, you even bore yourself In the end. And then you know recovery is under way.
Yep.
I was having dinner with an old Navy buddy. I mentioned something about one of the LOs. He said,
“You’re improving! This time you made it 6 minutes before mentioning her.”
It seems that recovery is contagious around here. Add my name to the list of green shoots. I don’t have any explanation for why my LE is subsiding, but it most certainly is. We are not NC (still see her every day), we are still very friendly and at times flirty, and I still occasionally check her social media when we’re not together. But I have just lost the energy to care so much about her. I don’t care what she’s doing anymore, who she’s with, whether she’s thinking about me, etc. I just don’t care and it feels so great. I have a life to finish living.
However, I still have a nagging urge to give her a long, detailed letter about my previous feelings though. It is basically a journal I have kept for the last several months that evolved into a letter to LO. Some of it seems rather silly now reading back. But I want her to know and I’m not sure why. I will try to force myself to re-read the “Closure is an Illusion” post over and over again I suppose. That was a difficult one for me, mostly because I know it’s all true.
That’s awesome, B! Without going NC!
Don’t send her a letter, I think that’s just your urge to get closure… and it seems you know that already, by rereading that post. One day even that closure urge is going to fade!
After years of wallowing in my LE, it does feel good to think about how much things have improved in the last few years. There was a time that I constantly wondered if I would ever stop thinking about her, after 7+ years of NC, but frequency has definitely dropped considerably in the last 3 years. For a time, most of my art, writing, and character ideas were inspired by her, and that’s become less and less. In fact, now I’m usually much more enthusiastic to write my original characters who do not remind me of her at all. Recently, I saw a big fan response over a character who was directly inspired by LO, and I simply enjoyed that other people could be fascinated by this character. I still have moments of nostalgia, or when I daydream for an hour, having a fantasy conversation with her set at some point in the distant future. I know I am prolonging my fantasies of her with my writing and my art, but now a bulk of my output isn’t reflective of her at all. Most of my creative fantasies these days are of completely imaginary, original characters, as I continue their stories with my daydreams, to have ready the next time I get a chance to sit down and write. I find that ironic, since so much of how I imagine my LO is likely not based on her reality anyway.
A novel that I read after my lowest part of my recovery was “The End of the Affair” by Graham Greene. The book is certainly not for everyone, but I really enjoyed it (although suffered while reading it), and I think it helped me heal. In particular, it is amazing at describing the writing process, at least for me. It helped me to read about a writer, who thinks & writes like I do, who can be very bitter & resentful on the inside while friends & family think we’re happy-go-lucky. I think the book gets most of its flack for how it handles religious themes, but it worked fine with my vague openness to spirituality. Occasionally, when I’m feeling down, I think about the narrator of that book, who enthusiastically embraces his bitterness, stubbornly wrapping himself in a Writer’s Cloak, and stews in his resentment of how his life turned out… and writes about it. Writing can be wallowing, relapsing, and cathartic, and it’s so wonderful to get feedback from strangers who identify with it all, or at least appreciate it as enjoyable or touching art.
Another book that helped me was “Pond,” by first time author Claire-Louise Bennett. This is a funny little surreal book about an intelligent academic who feels like she’s losing her mind to loneliness, and the chapters are mostly trains-of-thought, where we pick up little bits of story or imagery drowning in wordplay and never-ending sentences. Again, not for everyone, but I adored it – maybe because I’m a snob. Both of these books are ones I’ve picked up frequently to find a passage or re-read a chapter in the past 4 years since first reading them, basking in the nostalgia of the LE pain. It’s like finding Truth that hurts & feels rewarding all at once.
This is a great one!!! What a fantastic topic!!
My green shoots-
Not looking down his street when I pass by
the loosening of the constant knot in my stomach
waking up thinking of something else
getting absorbed in books and good stories
creative ideas
music: it doesn’t feel quite as loaded now, although this is a tender, tiny green shoot at this point
an inner quiet
laughing
a longer attention span
I love this topic, because I can see how far I’ve come, even as I’m still travelling out of it. And I love what other people have had to say. Thanks DrL!!!
Well, I don’t want to jinx anything, so 🤞🏻
This lockdown has been probably the best thing that has ever happened to me. I ecen think I’m starting to recover. I just hope I don’t go back to school almost recovered, then be crushed (no pun intended) back again when I see LO. That would be horrific.
But I’m feeling a lot better now and I think I’ve passed quite a few milestones, like the concentration and overall happiness, and being less self-conscious.
The most noticeable one?
Forgetting to check this site every Saturday. For example, before lockdown I would have read this post when it was published, but here I am, the Wednesday night after!
I can’t think of a single bad thing about this lockdown for me. Genuinely, I can’t.🙃
Congratulations AL! That’s really good news. All those milestones are really important. That is a good measuring stick – the reduced need to check this site immediately. It is a good recovery sign. Hope your recovery doesn’t get derailed!
Oh how I wish the lockdown had worked like that for me….but it had totally the opposite effect for me, with little to do, and boredom setting in, I turned to social media more and more, to the point that I was on media sites almost all day, with the exception of a little break here and there…..it’s not as if I had nothing else to do, I have hobbies, guitar, art, hobbies but for some reason I just can’t seem to get interested in anything except LO…..I must still be in that auto-pilot stage, not sure…..I manage to get out for a walk every day, plus out in the garden, but LO is always there with me, filluing up my mind, like an albatross around my neck…..sigh
How long have you gone nc Maureen ?
Hi Mia…..since the one week tour that I was on, in May 2019, where LO was the tour leader, I have had no contact at all except through social media….he lives in Austria, but is temporarily living in Australia (looking for work)…….he did set up a social media group for the tour members, and since then we have become ‘friends’ on social media…..so I manage to find an excuse once in a while to message him, and sometimes he politely messages back…..of course I’m always on social media trying to follow his every move…..I know, I’m hopeless…….
Hi Maureen, you are not hopeless! , we have all been there, or still are.
I deleted all social media so I could not follow, and spie 😀 . it was just not helping me, whenever i did i took 2 steps back. Feeling awefull after
I keep a journal writing dowm every day “i choose freedom over my addiction. And i take the pain, i scream in my pillow if i have to, I cry I rage but i do not contact and I do not look at social media . Not to point out that what you are doing is wrong but i can imagine it doest do you any good either. Can we do anything to help you?
Hi Mia…thank you for your concern…I am thankful to have this group and the great people here…and of course our knowledgeable leader, Dr. L.. I guess we all have to find our own paths, with the timely information we have from here……Social media is my lifeline, not only to LO but also to my other family and friends, especially during these trying times….Sadly I don’t have the luxury to cry into my pillow, or cry in rage as hubby or one of my other family members would become very inquisitive…I have family around me yet feel so alone in this LE. It’s ironic that this LE should have happened to me….I have always been the one that all the family come to for support…always the one cracking the jokes, the matriarch of the family so to speak….I raised four kids alone, put myself through college met my present hubby when my youngest was 16….nursed my mother for 5 years before she passed away, we have many 6 kids between us, many grand kids and great grand kids….and our house has always been the hub, for family dinners, birthdays, Christmas of course….and yet here I am, deep in a limerent episode that not a soul knows about (except for on here), trying to pretend that all is ok, but unable to break this strange bond with a young man younger than some of my grandsons!! I wonder if I could adopt him, ha,ha,ha….but nah, guess that wouldn’t work….I’m hoping that it may eventually wear off, and I can be free again….thank goodness for this site…x
I get it, there is nothing ” fair ” about a LE. It hits also the strong people. I just ended a long grief period after I lost a sister and now I have to grief again a LO, who I saw 4 times, for few days in a row but still. sometimes I think ” come on, you can’t be serious, I don’t have time for this bulls* but it is what it is. We indeed have to find out own path. you sound like a very strong person, keep us posted ok? We are here for you !
AL I have been wondering about you. Great pun, even if unintended. I have loved the lockdown too…
So glad you have turned the corner. Bravo!
Agree with Jaideux and Bert. Great progress!
And I also did not mind this lookdown and feel quite comfortable at home 😊
Post suggestion: do they think about us? If so, in what way? Are we annoying to them? When we disclose and they ghost, is it guilt or self protection mode? When LOs have hurt us, maybe unintentionally… is there remorse? Are they capable of introspection? I am still trying to decipher my LO’s behavior… hot and cold, friendly but distant. He essentially ghosted me a few weeks ago and I’m pulling my hair out why, after we decided to be friends. Been reading about attachment styles and the closest I’ve gotten is that he could be dismissive avoidant. How to know for sure?
https://www.psychalive.org/love-addictions/
Hi Anxious, maybe this helps a little, maybe you recognize the cycle? he could be avoidant, but the truth is we dont really know what the motive is or was, what LO s are thinking. And yes it drives us crazy. I also wonder sometimes if LO has any reflection to his own behaviour that put me in a possition to developed expectations. He never appologised, i did, for having too much expectations ( which was true but it took two to tango, when someone says i love you for 8 months yes i develop some expectations ) . I feel for you that you cant seem to comprehend, and I hope the day will come soon that you dont care anymore why he did such a shitty thing. Let him soak in it and live with himself. You know you would never do that, you have morals.
A-S.
I asume you are , like me, a very proud person, and problably rather die than reach out after someone ghosted you, on the other hand, you and LO seem to have a lot of history, why not ask him why he ghosted you ? After you decided to be friends, that is really weird, he is the crazy one, not you. What is there to loose? You are an adult, he is not. You are driving yourself crazy like this, worse case he will not answer. Sometimes our pride stands in the way of sanity. With former LOs a regret being too proud to have called them out or ask for clarity . ( call them out in an adulty way, confront them with their really weird behaviour)
AS : maybe this helps a little
https://youtu.be/JKd9RWVzHq8
Oh Mia… I did ask finally! He said he meant to reach out but he “sucks at it” and no take it personally because he still values our friendship. If that’s not a mindfuck, I don’t know what is. See, I told you before, he’s semi consistent with the ability to respond, just never initiates. I would just looove to find out what his core wounds are. Is he just a wounded individual with a lot of baggage, is he just an introvert, Asperger’s, socially inept, what?
Here’s the part you may find amusing… I gave him an out of character (for me) response… usually I’m overly compassionate and forgiving but this time I became sarcastic and semi confrontational. I wish I wasn’t as tired to write out on here what I wrote but I should get around to it tomorrow.
Moral of the story: just as we all on here discuss the “hit” we get from any LO interactions, I’ve discovered the other day that standing up for myself actually felt good. Maybe it just means my boundaries were so out of whack that I’ve surprised myself. I recommend it..
im so proud of you A_S , my felow limerent! Be gone fake pride, we are grown ass women.
Talking about boundaries, I repeat every day these declarations :
https://youtu.be/6EDnTMBg9fM
Only takes a few seconds but they are so good!
“Im not coming after you, I know my worth , I dont rescue and mistake pitty for love, I give my loyaltie to healty relationships, I give up prooving my worth, im done asking for you for the truth, im done feeling lonely, I am a good friend to myself, and im not accepting breadcrums, I sit down for the whole buffet. 🙂
Im not hanging on to you, I accept change and lifes impermanence
( tha last one is still a struggle )
I think Alan Robarge ( and dr L ) saved my life in a way.
Im curious about what you said and again, well done.
There are two potential reasons for trying to pin them down.
1. It validates “It’s not me, it’s them.” Don’t underestimate how important that is.
2. If you’re a fixer, identifying the root cause of the problem gives you ideas of how to go about trying to change things. However, if the roots of your LO’s problem go back to childhood, it’s unlikely you’re going to pull it off.
Clinical literature says it’s possible for someone to develop something called an “earned secure attachment” but it’s usually not easy and the person has to want to address the problems.
“Individuals who are earned-secure had early attachment failures but developed the capacity for coherence, collaboration, reflection, and mentalization. These characteristics allow for the development of trust, self-expression, self-compassion, self-care, self-protection, self-efficacy and healthy intimate relationships. Just as trauma can cause brain dysregulation, neuroscience, and interpersonal neurobiology demonstrates that trusting relationships and communication have the ability to heal the mind (Baldini et al., 2014; Cozolino & Santos, 2014).” – https://psychotherapy.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.psychotherapy.2016.70.3.233
Other clinical literature says it takes 3-5 to develop an earned secure attachment and, depending on the degree of dysfunction, some people won’t. It’s usually done in a therapeutic setting since the person has to identify and address the early attachment failures.
I think being with my wife as long as I have has gotten me to that point. Therapists helped me understand my issues with women taking off on me. My wife proved that it didn’t extend to all women.
Quoting Sharnhorst:
“if you’re a fixer, identifying the root cause of the problem gives you ideas of how to go about trying to change things. However, if the roots of your LO’s problem go back to childhood, it’s unlikely you’re going to pull it off.”
One of the cycles of anxciety attached relationships ( not to confuse with having a disorder, some relationships just make us very anxious forever what reason) is trying to psychoanalyse- label and even google what could be wrong with the other.
As Alan Robarge stated: “if there is something wrong with you we can fix that so we finaly can have my fantasy relationship that I want because I dont want to let you go because I crave for you”
God knows I have done that, my limerence wanted the other to change, ( how dare you stand in the way of what I want with you) eventhough I thougt and claimed to totally acept the other. I kept demanding more connection, blind to the fact that he didnt want or could not give it to me. I did not accept that we just not matched. I even told LO he might be autistic, beacuse my needs were not being met.
I second Mia on that one. I believe the best approach with people is to accept them just as they are, and accept we can do nothing to change them. Not always easy but this is validating and kind when it comes from the heart.
We only have control over how we react and respond to them…..A-S as hard as it is, I think you need to embrace the uncertainty & accept that he behaves in a way that you just don’t understand and maybe never will. Sounds like you are part way along that road already though so wishing you the strength and wisdom to continue.
For me it’s also grieving and accepting that me and LO are just not a match.
Never will. No matter how great he is or how much I think I love him.
I can’t match with everyone, no matter how bad my limerence wants it. And that’s raw and I’m taking this in in proportion, sometimes allowing myself to think we still have a chance. Sometimes I just accepted that I don’t accept to take the pressure off.
I don’t know, A_S, not knowing your whole story, could it be LO just feels uncomfortable and doesn’t know better how to react like a mature person would?
When I read your question, do they think about us, and if in what way. I’ve asked myself that plenty of time. Does LO think about me? Does he miss me? What instances does he remember think about? But in the end I decided that it just keeps me from moving on, so I decided to think that LO does not think about me and if I pop up in his head it is about something completely neutral. I also imagined him going on with his daily business and being happy without me (with whomever or whatever that makes him happy)
He once said he’s “uncomfortable” talking about feelings. I almost convinced myself he has mommy issues but then I discovered they talk on the phone twice a week. So I’m back to wtf. The man had no problem sleeping with me, getting me pregnant (total accident, I took partial blame for it), then proposed friendship (because I’m “such a great person), then when I asked to clarify his idea of friendship, he ghosted. It’s been a mindfuck. My last exchange with him was about the fact that I’ve been struggling with ptsd due to the pregnancy and he responded with very diplomatic sympathy along the lines of “sorry you’re going through this, wish there was more I could do.” I responded with… you could have called me to offer support, why are you proposing friendship now? If you don’t want to date me, define this new relationship for me so I know where I stand and can adjust my expectations accordingly… That’s when he went total radio silence. That was a few weeks ago and I don’t expect to hear from him again. The funny part (at least fellow limerants could appreciate) is that the last thing I sent him was via email, which has never been our mode of communication but I know I got the correct email address and now, of course, my brain is wondering if he ever read the email. What if he accidentally deleted it? What if it got caught in spam? Should I follow up with a text asking if he got the email? No, wait, that’s desperate and pathetic. This is why closure is an illusion, as Dr. L wisely pointed out.
Oh wow, A_S, that’s a lot to deal with, I didn’t know more background to your story, I am really sorry you are going through this, and I hope my comment before wasn’t too insensitive!
Do you think you could be friends with him? Or do you think you would just accept anything he offers you to keep him in your life? If you could choose, what would you want in an ideal world?
I’m happy to see much progress here! Maybe some good has come out of this crazy time.
Songs of the Day:
#1: “I Can See Clearly Now” – Johnny Nash (1971)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qw5ma4rfIw
This is just a great song.
#2: “The Best Is Yet to Come” – Luba (1986)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuC-OOYfQm0
LO #2 loved this song. She’d put it on in the car and sing along to it.
funnier version? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrHxhQPOO2c
still a great limerence message
I too am seeing glimmers of hope, more time passing without thinking about LO, etc. But there is still a return, a slip down the stairs, lurking in all my days. With wife away, I am lonely and thoughts turn to LO. It’s painful but all I can do is purposely live for today.
That’s much healthier to just assume they simply don’t think about us. If they only knew!
😆
@Sarah, I want him in my life so I could understand him better. I don’t think he’s a bad person at all. Right now I’m just focusing on the ghosting part. I’ve known the man for over 3 years and we both have been single. It’s not as I had an affair with a married man. I’ve mentioned this on here in previous posts that he’s 42, never married, no children, hasn’t lived with anyone fully and his longest relationship was a few years with a woman a decade his junior. Apparently, he’s still looking for the one and I think it was Sharnhorst who commented saying he will never find the one and this part intrigues as well. The uncertainty of not knowing who I’ve been dealing with has been swallowing me whole. Perhaps it’s my overly analytical nature but my limerance had also tapped in to the “let’s figure him out” part. I’ve always been interested in psychology and have done intensive cbt when I was younger so concepts like “is he on the spectrum?”, are there severe intimacy issues, dismissive avoidant? are keeping me in the perpetual guessing cycle. I’d add further to this by saying the man not only had turned my life upside down at my age and I’m middle aged, but technically has done nothing wrong aside from not having good manners to respond to an email. I am almost certain that if I were to reach out now to ask whether he received the email, he just might respond but then there goes the pride thing….
Oh I think meticulously analyzing everything and limerence is inseparable.
I think though you most likely won’t find the answers you are seeking. And even if you did, they wouldn’t be enough for you. I do think you will have to let go eventually and just accept it for what it is, he chose to ghost you for whatever unknown reason. I know it is hard not to, but I wouldn’t reach out to him. He had the choice to respond, and he chose not to.
And, we’re back to one of the best questions ever:
“What would you do with that knowledge if you had it?”
I would try to make some sense out of it, if I had more data. It would kill some of the uncertainty = allow for the process of recovery to speed up.
I’d be a hypocrite if I said I didn’t do the same thing. But, even after I LO #2 gave me an answer, and it was a straight answer, I held on to hope she’d come around for over 6 months. It was only after she pushed me too far and I met my wife that I finally cut her off. I have to say this about LO #2, every time I asked her a straight question, she gave me an answer I could work with. I don’t think the woman ever lied to me or tried to evade me when I pinned her down.
This conversation took place on June 13, 1987:
LO #2: “You did everything I ever asked of you. The harder you tried, the more I resented you for it. I made things so hard for you.”
Me: “So, you’re telling me I was playing a game that I could never win?”
LO #2: “Pretty much.”
It took over 20 years and 2 therapists to get me to finally believe that I couldn’t win that game. I would go over things front, back, over, under, sideways, you name it looking for something I’d missed. One trait I have that sometimes works against me is that I think there’s almost nothing I can’t fix and what things I can’t fix, I can work around.
I was wrong. In this case, I couldn’t do either.
Did that also had to do with restoring your ego @ Sharnhorst?
” This must end the way I want it to end”.
For me my ego is bruised by LO and the door is still not fully closed since he still want to fly to see me after Corona and my egomind is ruminating in ” setting things straight / right ”
Never worked before though. Only thing that worked was moving on from an LO who bruised my fragile ego. 🙂
Not entirely true, my LE at 16 gave in after two years of rejecting me, I hold on and ended up with him, after 2 years I ended the relationship
He was crushed. Guess that thought my L mind that things can turn around if you hold on.
Not a very healthy lesson. 🙁
@Mia,
“Did that also had to do with restoring your ego @ Sharnhorst?”
No.
What helped restore my ego was when she dropped me off at the ferry terminal after our last meeting, I kept walking and didn’t stop to turn around.
What helped restore my ego was when she sent me a FB friend request, I found a picture of me and my wife when she was smokin’ hot and made it my profile picture. The caption was,
“You should find some sweet young thing that adores you and not waste your time with a crusty old broad like me.” I listed LO #2’s initials, the name of the restaurant we were in when she said it and the date.
My next line was, “I found one!!!”
I don’t know that she saw it but she hasn’t tried to contact me since.
Sharn, your recollection of the precise date is impressive! Do you keep a journal from decades ago? And yet, you’re on this site, active and I sense that still carry residual pain.
*that you still carry…
I did write a history of the relationship. According to the therapist, it’s a mild form of PTSD.
I told the therapist that our breakup was a low drama as they get. She asked what I thought PTSD was. Why was it I can remember dates and conversations that took place decades ago like they were yesterday? Why was it that for the 6 months after she declined my marriage proposal, I can’t remember anything until she was getting ready to leave town? The therapist said that period was so painful that I blocked it from my memory. She said not all trauma is sudden or catastrophic. She said my case was more like watching someone die from a terminal illness than having someone die from an auto accident. She said I watched it die for almost two years and nothing I said or did altered the outcome.
This is an interesting story. Why do you think she sent you a FB request after 20 years? Did her reaching out give you the closure you were seeking decades prior? I admit, I fantasize about LO reaching out just so I can end it on my terms. We limerants are wired in such twisted ways. My friend’s wife recently left him without much of an explanation aside from “I’m done with this” and he was crushed for a few months. I recently caught up with him and he disclosed he finally reached a point of radical acceptance, as he put it. He was very much in love with his ex wife. Acceptance saved him. I told him I would trade my brain for his in a heartbeat.
I wish I could give shorter answers but these are complex questions.
Did it give me closure? No. But, it did give me wry satisfaction to think she blinked first.
When I said goodbye, I left a lot of things on the table. I hadn’t sorted them all out by then. All I knew was LO #2 went beyond redemption and she had to go. The therapist said our last meeting wasn’t a goodbye, it was a fight that I started. Cutting her off was the immediate corrective action. The long term corrective actions that I had to make took decades.
I have a coffee cup at work I take to meetings. It says, “Piss me off, pay the consequences.”
As to why she sent it, I can only speculate.
The obvious one is that the friend request was a mistake. She accidentally sent it and didn’t know it. Technically, she didn’t even have to be looking at my page. You could fat finger a friend request from your “People You May Know” list. I think she was looking.
The others are more interesting. When she sent it, I checked her out. She was seeing a guy who’s now her husband. He wasn’t on her page but she was all over his. In the “You Can’t Make This Stuff Up Dept,” he has the following similarities to me:
1. Same age (not strong)
2. He has the same college degree.
3. He went to college one state away from where I did.
4. He was in the Air Force the same time I was in the Navy.
5. Some physical resemblance.
6. Almost identical taste in music, books, and movies.
Oh, and he’s an airline pilot like her father.
A psychologist friend of mine said I was driving her nuts. As to why, one speculation is he made her an offer and she made one pass through to see if there was a reason not to take it. They moved in together not long after. Another thing, she was influenced by popular music. Adele 21 was still getting a lot of air play and at two songs I think she would relate to. Considering when in the day the request came through, I think she was feeling nostalgic. She loved U2’s “The Joshua Tree” and would paraphrase lyrics to songs when she described things about our relationship.
The other side of that coin is that she wanted him to make an offer and having the guy who had asked her to marry him reappear suddenly might get him to make a move. She told me she had leveraged me against one of my successors so using me to triangulate her current relationship had precedent. She could get a lot of leverage from that. On the other hand, she could leverage me anyway by telling him I sent the FB request and being the dutiful GF she was, she declined it. Not as powerful but better than nothing.
The therapist asked what I thought would happen if we reengaged. I told the therapist that if she was triangulating me, she’d give me the same line she did decades ago. If she wasn’t triangulating me and she didn’t do any work to address what led us to fail then, she had decades to idealize our relationship but eventually we’d end up in the same place with the same result. The therapist said that it’s not that people like LO #2 can’t change it’s just that they usually don’t.
I tracked them for awhile. It was odd but when I posted something, a similar entry would appear on his FB page. I posted about a concert I went to and shortly after, he posted about a concert they went to. I posted about a vacation and pretty soon, they posted about a vacation. I stopped posting things, he stopped posting things. But, he never appeared on her page. Totally coincidental but interesting.
It’s all pure speculation. If I ever encounter her, I might pull that string. A Thought Catalog article says we look for signs when we want to find them or something like that.
Article of the Day: https://thoughtcatalog.com/brianna-wiest/2020/07/11-signs-youre-healing-past-trauma-you-didnt-even-know-you-had/
Certainly, not everyone here has experienced trauma but a few of us have.
I have another sprout, I’m far from there yet but I know it from former LE s.
Getting back my arousal.
When in recovery I basically turn into the most prudish 18 century nun ever. I even turn away eye contact from men in the streets, I don’t want to look at them. I wear covered pyjamas even to give the message to myself in bed: Don’t even think about it.
Which I don’t.
Till the day that I do and than I know I’m getting better.
Hi there!
I have a dilemma. Since February 2019 I have been in love with a guy that lived in my neighborhood and was also my hockey trainer. We used to go to the gym together about two times a week (that’s where I fell in love with him too). Due to the corona virus he moved to another city in our country and he won’t return for at least one year. I will return in September. The past months (since the beginning of March) I started to minimize the contact. I haven’t seen him since then and we only chatted a few times and had some FaceTime calls with another friend. My LO probably doesn’t know that I am in love with him. He sees me as a good friend. That’s also the reason why it’s hard for me to shut him down completely. Unfortunately he will remain being my hockey trainer the next year. I am not sure if and how I am going to handle seeing him every week and also trying to keep low contact. He will probably also want to arrange some meet-ups with me and my other friend. Do you have tips for me?
Besides this problem there will also be a confrontation in the near future. In the first week of July we planned a fun activity with our hockeyteam which he will also attend (as a trainer). We will definitely talk to each other there and I am afraid this will cause a backlash in my withdrawing process. Should I sign out for this activity or am I taking it too far by not going there because of him.
I hope you can help me! Thank you in advance, I really love this site!
I think your best course of action really depends on your situation and his. Are either of you already in a committed relationship? Is there a major age difference or some other barrier that means you can’t be together? Is there any chance the feelings are reciprocated? If there is no real reason why you can’t be together, is it possible to let him know you are interested? I would steer clear of a full-on declaration of your undying love, but you might let him know you would be interested in getting to know one another a little better on a date or something like that. I suppose the problem then is what happens if the feelings aren’t mutual? It would be awkward, and you may have to think about leaving the team or trying to minimize contact.
That would also be the case if there is some reason why the two of you can’t be together (marriage, etc.). In that case, I would go low contact as much as possible, keeping things polite and friendly but businesslike. You may ultimately be better to leave the team if seeing this man on a regular basis is going to set you off and derail your recovery. No contact might be the best option, but I still think it depends on your situation. If there is a chance it might work out, my personal feeling is you only live once and it might be worth a try! Good luck no matter what the situation and how it pans out.
The question seems to center on the hockey team and your mentor/professional relationship with your trainer and whether you think you can keep it together. You like playing hockey and you’re certainly not the first person who had feelings for their mentor or coach. How many actors get involved with their producers, directors, or agents?
You’ve got some things to consider:
Why are you considering withdrawing from your LO? Are you concerned about damaging your relationship with your trainer? Are you concerned because one or both of you is unavailable and unable to pursue a relationship? Are you concerned that if you pursued a relationship, what affect would that have on the team? Would they look at you like Teacher’s Pet? Are you afraid the team would snicker behind your back.
Next, you script out your “Fairy Tale Ending.” If you could make this anything you wanted, what would it be? Then, look at what it would take to achieve that against reality. Actually, you might want to script out the FTE before you ask the questions so as not to bias it.
If there’s no possibility of getting the FTE, what’s the best you can get against what you’re willing to accept? Do you think that you can you pull it off?
For example, if you can’t come up with an FTE, and it’s possible you won’t, is hockey important enough to you to try and “Fake it ’til you make it” or go NC/LC and accept the consequences. If your LO is important, you take the risk and accept those consequences.
Not a lot of very specific recommendations.
Thanks for the advice! Really essential to the story (but I forgot to mention) is that the guy I am in love with has a relationship for six years now. It is a weird relationship (because they don’t see each other often, because her parents do not support the relationship) and he doesn’t tell me much about it. There used to be a time (about a year ago) that I thought my feelings were reciprocated, because he sent many signals that he wanted to see me as much as I wanted to see him. But by now I think he was just looking for a good friend and some attention. He is an introvert and really picky in choosing who to associate with, I think, so he didn’t have many friends to hang-out with. That’s why it’s really hard to let him go and to refuse en meet-up.
Yeah, one sided platonic relationships are drag. It’s worse when they’re really nice people but you two are on entirely different pages.
This article kind of relates https://thoughtcatalog.com/christopher-lai/2015/12/can-a-man-and-a-woman-really-have-a-platonic-relationship/
When LO #4 said goodbye because I “couldn’t keep it platonic,” I referenced it my response to her.
“But a relationship can never be truly platonic if you have to set up boundaries. A relationship can never be truly platonic if you have to adjust your feelings. A relationship can never truly be platonic if you have to pretend that you are happy with the way things really are…when deep down—you want something more.” I left the last sentence out. I told her that against those criteria, it wasn’t platonic for me once she opened up and started confiding in me.
“You can, however, pretend that it is platonic. And for some people, this is good enough.” Is that ok with you?
Hi Geraldine. I agree with the others: it depends on what you want.
If you want to be rid of the limerence, then it’s sensible (if a shame) to cut contact as much as possible and press ahead with your purposeful life. You can in principle find another hockey coach and team, if you’re really determined.
But if you are not sure about his relationship status (it sounds a bit odd), and you are interested in him, you can ask about it. Obviously, that “reveals your hand” a bit, but I’m a big advocate for living purposefully and being straightforward and honest.
The only thing I would say is that if he is still committed to someone else, then definitely don’t get involved. Pain all round with that strategy.
The middle ground would be staying on the team but limiting contact and trying to avoid any non-essential meetings while you work on getting your head straight. That’s possible, but requires some grit on your part. I’m sceptical about the possibility of being friends with an LO, but many of us have to make professional relationships continue to work while deprogramming our idiot limerent brains, so it can be done.
So, I’ve just finished the day 5 of full NC. My previous record was two and a half days, during our exhausting almost a year EA.
This time, I didn’t make a big deal out of it, I didn’t make any deal, exactly, no warning, no pathetic speech, nothing. I think we are both so tired of quilt and countless attempts to make this PA or NC.
So, despite my a little bit desperate tone, I have a little celebration here. Anyone in a mood for a cake (tears topping)?
Congrats DD! Keep it up!
I’ll have a slice of virtual cake, if you’re offering (even if a little soggy).
I will have some cake with you too DD. And some champagne! It really is something to celebrate. I tried and failed NC several times with my last LE and when I finally did it and stuck to it (it’s been 1.5 years) it has proven to be the hardest yet most rewarding thing I have ever done. I feel like I have found myself and my dignity again! Someone asked how I was doing the other day and I heard this voice say “I am doing great! I am happy!”. To my shock, that voice was mine. This time the happiness came from within me and wasn’t tied to Mr. LO.
So I will have that cake for both you AND me. 🙂
Keep up the good work!
Thanks, Dr L, Jaideux… <3
Feeling so sad and desperate today. Like all joy and happiness are over… 🙁
Not to worry. Channel some of that inner bitch/bastard into being happy in spite of them, not because of them.
Refuse to let them win. Screw them, they’re not getting the best of me.
Scharnhorst, I like your suggestion so much! I’m very stubborn, and believe me that’s the right motivation for me!
Jaideux, I know that’s different for everyone and for every single LE, but how long in your case to start to feel liiiitle better? 🙂
This is the detox part. Happiness will come if you stay the course. Misery is to be expected at first when breaking an addiction.
Joy snd happiness will come back for sure, DD!!
Ego also seems to be our enemy in this process. I dont seem to be able to get past the fact that she has no feelings for me. I initiated a period of NC, but I realized in the back of my mind that a reason for doing this was that it would hopefully make her miss me, and hence somehow magically like me.
The bad habit comes from a long time ago when I pursued a woman very relentlessly. She finally gave in, but then we had a tortured few month relationship where I never felt balanced. So, back to ego…it stops me from accepting what is as clear as day to others. NC, in my perverse mind, just became another ruse to try to win her affection, rather than a long term strategy to rid myself of these very unwanted chains. My fear is I will break down from NC, go back to test the waters, invariably be rejected in exactly the same way, and suffer a massive setback. To say this is a fear would be to understate it.
Oh, yes, ego is always a big obstacle when recovering from a LE. Especially when you’re single, because it gets mixed up with the fear of getting back to square one. So now you have to deal with the fact that all those happy couple fantasies about LO that you thought were your future are really a whole bunch of nothing. Bonus points if it turns up that they’re already with someone.
I think the root of the ego problem is the inherent asymmetry of every limerent episode. We’re thinking all the time about them, so when it turns up that they are not reciprocating, it feels like we’ve been emotionally used. You think that LO is the center of the world, and they’re all kthanksbye about it. It’s almost as if they’re not taking you serious.
After being ghosted by LO a week or so ago, I sometimes catch myself wishing that she tries to get back into contact with me, just so I can act all high and mighty and ignore her. Even when I know that a) it’s not going to happen b) it will give me a better sense of closure and help with the recovery if she doesn’t.
As the old saying goes, the best revenge is to be happy.
@Benjamin..
As a singleton, I agree with all of that. Kind of blows our magical Hollywood romantic movie ending when they go off to live happily ever after with their shiny new SO. I don’t follow my exLO anymore on social media but haven’t blocked him from following me.
From what I hear from mutual friends he is pretty much MIA on social media anyway.
Until the other day.
I posted a story on instagram and you know how you can see who has viewed it? Well I decided to look. He had viewed it and I felt a surge of feelings of validation (I don’t know what that was or why!) and this childish voice in my head said “HAHA you looked at my story but I never look at yours because I don’t follow you anymore NA NA NA!”.
I think that was my version of the high and mighty you described.
At least I think I looked pretty cute and dignified in my IG story-post. And it goes away in 24 hours so that makes me mysterious, right?
I feel a tiny bit of satisfaction out of it all, but maybe it’s just limerence stirring and about to emerge out of hibernation. Please no.
I don’t use instagram at all, but I can totally see myself acting like you did in a similar situation. It’s a childish feeling, but maybe it’s our way to try to protect our pride from the fact that we fell completely for someone who barely noticed us. Like shouting at them “AND I WASN’T REALLY THAT MUCH INTO YOU, DUMBASS!”.
Hi DrL and Friends,
I think it’s been 9 or 10 months since I’ve posted here, and this is the perfect blog post for my first check-in.
I stepped away from the blog to try to help me move on from my LE. Spending too much time “intellectualizing” everything is a form of bypassing…and I was doing that non-stop.
I’m relieved to say that for the first time in almost two years, I think I’m going to be ok, and that my broken heart is going to heal, and more importantly, open back up again. I’ve been worried that this experience “damaged” me so much that’d I’d lost the ability to see the good in the world and that I would be permanently bitter and jaded.
Saying to yourself that you’ll get through this is easy. I knew it would take at least a year or more before I recovered…but actually living through the relentless torment, day by day, and hour by obsessive hour is one of the most difficult experiences life has to offer. And “recovered” is relative. I think “recovering” is more accurate.
Hang in there everyone, if you make the decision to move on and abide by all the many resources available to you, you will experience the eternal sunshine of the spotless mind again someday!!
Thank you DrL!
Congrats, Catcity! Welcome back! Not much happened while you were away. A few pandemics and riots and stuff, and bubonic plague has returned, but other than that…
I think realising you are better but not completely recovered is probably a healthy indicator of self-awareness. There’s always a little caution. Once bitten and all that.
@Dr. L hahaha!
@Dr L, you forgot murder hornets and locusts and dust storms.
Dr L, ( or all the others further in the process)
I have a question.
I’m 1,5 months in NC. I decided to go cold turkey, work on underlying insecurities and take in all the negative feelings I would normally avoid ( boredom, sadness shame etc )
And I do feel a little better, let’s say I only cry 1 time per day instead of all day.
I’m picking up hobby’s and put time and energy in pure things like plants and animals and I’m in the middle of regression therapy.
What really annoyes me is that I still think about LO litterary every second of the day. And it drives me nuts, I don’t want to, I m beginning to despite LO and I hate the fact he is there 24-7.
I’m beginning to wonder that if i would start dating (I’m single) carefully maybe I open my world and view to a bigger picture to see that there are other men out there. And LO is not the only one in the world. because my world is rather small at the moment. So lots of space for LO to be in my head.
On the other hand , ticking all the boxes of being a love addict there are risks , like me transfering my LE to another person where in the beginning of the LE it will be another mess. I’m also not very good in not bonding inmediatly if there is a glimmer and I’m not by far done with my transformation but this obsession is exhausting.
I don’t know what’s wise, stick it out till you don’t think about him anymore and are happy with your single life or carefully open my view to other people around me, since that’s also reality, so LO would get less space and it would maybe help my recovery.
And with dating I mean going on a dating site, I don’t expect that I will spontaneously meet anyone datable any time soon.
Hello Mia,
I’m far from a psychologist or anything of the sort, but given that you admit to being a love addict, I think the risk of just transferring the LE instead of working on it may be a bit too high. And since the LEs seem to be so destructive for you, I think trying to start dating now may be prepping yourself for a world of hurt.
On the other hand, being single and limerent has the advantage that it’s far easier to disclose your feelings to LO, which can help in achieving closure and, as the Dr. says “cutting off the supply” once a possible LE gets out of hand.
Maybe getting into a hobby that lets you meet new people can help? That way you can get to know other persons and see “the bigger picture”, while alleviating the risks of new LEs that getting back in the game can bring. If you then find someone you think is dateable, well, even better, but the idea is to meet new people without a romantic context.
I know it’s not much, but hope it helps.
Thank you so much Benjamin, I think I have to endure the obsession for a while. It is what it is. Dating apps are not the most healthy thing for a serial limerent aka love addict since I can put a lot of projection on the other and make them who I want in my fantasy when contact existist mainly in texting.
I have to be patient and endure the intrusive thoughts for now since it’s only 1,5 Months of NC I guess.
I did disclose to LO we had a secret relationship for months but I can’t deal with my limerence for sure.
Thank you again Benjamin, back to breathing the cravings away and meditate 🙂
Mia,
I’d be interested in hearing about regression therapy. Are you coming up with a specific person, particularly, your current LO? If it’s not too personal, what do you hope to get out of regression therapy?
When LO #2 returned to town on her last drive-by, I made marriage counseling a requirement to re-engage her even though we weren’t married. She declined. From the way she talked and the insight she had, I’d put money on she’d seen a therapist. She told me later she’d undergone a past life regression. She said we were “old souls” and had tangled before sometime in the late middle ages. Apparently, we were no more successful in that life than we were in this one.
I asked her what we were. She said she lived alone with her pets outside the village. This from the woman who told me her greatest fear was to grow old and die alone and all she wanted from me was to stop feeling miserable all the time since we broke up. I told her she’d recently broken up with me and her relationship with my successor was in the tank. I asked her if it was possible that maybe some of those deep seated fears had come out under hypnosis. She said, nope, we’d done this before.
I asked if she was the village crone. She didn’t take that well. She said I was some merchant or skilled tradesman. Nothing special but definitely not a serf. She said I did ok for myself and she add that I’d always do ok for myself. I told her that was pretty depressing. She asked why. I told her that if she was right, not only had we failed to learn anything in 800+ years but we’d get to do this again.
LO #2 also said she had a Tarot card reading done on us. She said the gypsy told her she’d never seen such chaos in a reading and “She didn’t know how we had even been friends let alone lovers. “I asked what the prognosis was. LO #2 said, “Maybe if we spent 20 years alone together on a desert island we could make it work.” Points for the gypsy.
Her grandmother was heavily into astrology. LO #2 paid to have a birth chart professionally done on me and had her grandmother explain it to me. According to grandma, I have 7 planets in positive aspects and the rest are ok. But, according to grandma, our charts weren’t compatible.
I got the feeling she was looking for something she could believe in that indicated we could make it but every turn was a dead end. It makes you wonder.
@Mia,
I have spent my life going from limerent crush to crush (with a marriage thrown in there for someone who had been an LO but after I recovered he then decided I was the one! (It ended badly).
For now I am feeling a strange sense of relief NOT having a crush, and not dating or faux dating which I’ve experienced with so many of the LE’s. Now when I think of the last LO I imagine him asking me why I ghosted him and my responses vary as to my current mindset and mood. I no longer reflect on all the fun times we had or the times when I felt humiliated. My goal is to allow him to cross my mind ever so rarely and I know it will happen like it has with past LO’s. My Iphone helpfully made me a movie called “together” which was a compilation of all the pictures of us 🙄. I am proud to say I didn’t watch it.
I think I am doing some deep healing and while I will always be a recovering limerent I now know I can be happy without one of these toxic relationships in my life. I do work very hard at thought control and self discipline and making myself do reality checks. The hard work eventually pays off. LO’s father called me this week to tell me he missed me and wanted to reminisce about trips I took with them. (Fortunately he didn’t talk about LO). I haven’t spoken to LO’s father in well over a year. I thought this call might send me into a relapse but so far so good. Seems like recovery is fairly solid! You will get there in time Mia!
Thank you as always Jaideux, I ve been in love with someone always, since I was 4. Going from crush to crush and also married my former LO. ( Ended in recent divorce ). Fortunately most of my relationships where not toxic. I just lost interest as LE would fade.
I’m going to think back at your words and how you feel happy alone.
It’s healing time, not dating time. 😆
If my phone would just decide on its own to make a movie from me and LO called “together” ! I would have had a nervous breakdown lol . 😳There where some really cute pics I must say
Lucky me I erased his ass .
@Mia, do you have any friends that you meet up with and how big is your social circle? I appreciate you’ve spoken of being lonely with going NC on your LO, but I wasn’t sure if that was lonely in the sense of lonely because you can’t talk about your limerence to anyone other than a therapist or those of us on this forum as opposed to not having a large group of friends you could turn to and meet up with?
My reason for asking is because, as part of my advice to you, would be for you to continue cultivating your interests and to meet up with people you know or to build a social circle, which would help to mitigate some of the pain of dealing with your limerence. I understand that that won’t necessarily be enough when these episodes are overwhelming, such as it is for you presently, having gone through days when nothing I have an interest in has been able to distract from obsessing about one’s LO, but it would at least help.
Personally, from my own experience, I wouldn’t try transferring your limerence to another LO. It happened to me with LOs 1 and 2; when my limerence for LO1 ended after I noticed they were in a relationship, it was only a temporary respite as it soon transferred to LO2, someone who was friends with LO1 and I hadn’t paid much attention to due to my limerence for LO1. That started another period of agony that lasted close to two years.
Stay strong and no matter what happens, you can at least turn to us for help and advice! Sending some more hugs your way! 🙂
Hi LG. Thank you for your answer. I have quite a big social network and many friends who I also can talk too.
For now I choose to be more on my own because I want to feel . I think I have a habit of not wanting to feel negative emotions and now I’m letting it all in. So I am alone quite a lot to accept sadness and boredom.
Also just the fact that LO is not there for the loving and touch and intimacy makes me feel lonely even though I have plenty of friends and activities.
I choose to slow down.
I know I will have to pick up social activities and work on my purposeful life I’m just not there yet, first I have to let out emotions and grief .
And no I think transfering LE would be starting the whole s”itsshow all over again indeed.
Thank you Lg xxx
@Mia, thanks for clarifying and you’re very welcome! 🙂 I completely understand the emotions you’re going through at the moment. At some point or another, with every single LE that I have experienced, I’ve gone through these patches when all I want is to be on my own, becoming lethargic to anything other than thinking about my LO.
I agree that it’s for the best for you to take your time and pick things up when you want to do them – maybe you will be able to use this time, painful that is for you, to be able to reflect more positively and take charge of future limerent feelings. Here’s to hoping that it doesn’t last for too long and this period will pass soon! 🙂
You’ve also given me some food for thought too: Having a social circle and friendships isn’t enough to overcome these limerent-associated feelings of grief, nor do having interests and hobbies dilute them either. If there’s one thing that my current LO has given me, it’s that I’ve had a massive push towards breaking the isolated bubble I’ve been living in to order to expand what limited social circle I have.
It’s something I need to do for my health’s sake, but I have been operating under this illusion that all I need to do to control any future limerent feelings is to develop my interests and have some close friendships and voila! no more out of control limerence. I am glad that I know that now and can be mentally prepared for should I be affected by limerence again after my limerence for LO4 fades.
Way too true about the problems of limerence transferring. The agony of what I went through with LO2 is one that I care not to repeat. Some of the pain I’ve gone through with LO4 hasn’t exactly been pleasant, but I can say that, by becoming friends with LO4, there are a lot more positive memories – ones that don’t involve the limerent-feelings for good measure too!
With LO2, it went on for well over a year, closer to two if I recall correctly. There were way too many days wasted due to the uncertainty, and days when I felt I couldn’t control my obsessive thoughts about them. I am glad that when my limerence did subside, and that when it did, it didn’t transfer to anyone else.
Bravo Mia! You are an amazing woman and are planting all the right seeds to grow contentment within. It does sound like staying single right now is the wise thing to do although I remember how very tempting and thrilling it can be to find an exciting new man to get over an ex. But I guess for people like us, going from one LO to another is a bit like replacing a heroin addiction with cocaine :-).
I bet a lot of people use relationships, infatuations and crushes as a mood enhancer or to make life more interesting, but I guess they just don’t all obsess like we do.
My most toxic past relationship was the one and only time I rebounded straight from heartbreak to an (unsuitable) new man. It took me over 3 years with him to fully appreciate my error. During that time I paid for my mistake with my self-worth and all my inner peace. Never again.
Mia – am curious about that happened with your marriage if you don’t mind me asking – you say it was lifeless…in what way? I am asking from a personal perspective….I tend to see my marriage through rose tinted glasses but when I take those off and look more closely, I start to wonder.
@ Alie I answered somewhere about my marriage on this page. Further down.
I hear you when you say ” you paid the price ” for your mistake.
LO came along when I still was married, and although I’m happy I divorced, boy did I pay a price for playing with fire. 🔥 thinking I could handle things.
Never have I lost myself to this point. And indeed, never again.
At least I hope the hard work pays off to be able to have a ‘normal relationship one day.
Hi Mia,
It’s been 20 months since I tried to do the best version of No Contact that I could muster. It was not perfect NC, but it was pretty good. It’s been a year since I last saw him in person, and 6 months since our last short telephone conversation.
Recovery for me means instead of occupying 100% of my waking thoughts, he now occupies only 50% of them, and the quality of those thoughts has changed. Instead of fantasizing future interactions with him or reliving the interactions we actually did have, now my thoughts are more geared towards coming to terms with everything that happened (and didn’t happen). I no longer try to understand WHY he said or did certain things. I spent the first year trying to psychologize him from afar, coming to various conclusions about different personality disorders that would explain his behaviour. Of course that was all a self-defence mechanism on my part. I’ve seen other limerents doing the exact same thing on this page. It’s natural to do that when you’ve been rejected, but it means you are investing a lot of your energy into trying to understand something that isn’t for you to understand. It has been freeing to be released from that compulsion. However, I don’t think I could have accomplished such a strong degree of NC without it.
The other thing that has helped tremendously is that I’ve been working from home due to COVID. Staying on at my job after he left was a nightmare, since my memories of him are inextricably linked to that building. It kept me so incredibly stuck!! Overall this experience has been very costly to my well being on many levels, so it’s a big relief to be able to experience some signs that my old self is still rattling around in there somewhere.
Wishing you all the best in your journey!
“ I’ve seen other limerents doing the exact same thing on this page.”
Yep, me. 🙋🏻♀️
Did the exact same thing.
“ …it means you are investing a lot of your energy into trying to understand something that isn’t for you to understand. It has been freeing to be released from that compulsion. However, I don’t think I could have accomplished such a strong degree of NC without it.”
Same here, i think it was a necessary step I had to go through during NC in order to get where I am now.
Thank you Catcity 13.
I know psychoanalysing LO Is part of limerence recovery. ( I have 2 diagnosis for him LOL , and probably true) .
I’m happy for you you got so far. Good job! Thanks for sharing your recovery story
While stuck in our limerent brain
LO’s motives we must ascertain
Do they have a PD?
Is it them or just me?
Rumination can drive you insane
When traversing this quite common phase
It can seem like your lost in a daze
Better things wait for you
If you just muscle through
You’ll break free from this limerent haze
Slow day at work….
Awesome Scharnhorst!! Made me laugh out loud.
“While stuck in our limerent brain
LO’s motives we must ascertain
Do they have a PD?
Is it them or just me?
Rumination can drive you insane
When traversing this quite common phase
It can seem like your lost in a daze
Better things wait for you
If you just muscle through
You’ll break free from this limerent haze”
Clip of the Day #2: “I Think I Love You” – “Almost Live”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVKxREwzkCE
Another “Almost Live” classic. In case you’re thinking of one last shot at pinning down your LO…watch this first.
Song of the Day: “Losing My Religion” – R.E.M. (1991)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u036M7p6-ak
A catchy tune about one of the many internal struggles of limerence.
What does “psychologize him” mean? Do you mean psychoanalyze?
Yes, sorry I’m not English and my spelling check doesn’t always work. I come up with the craziest words !
Whoops, yes, psychoanalyze is the intended word in my post too Bro.
Hi Sharn, since for the last 8 months I made oversharing my second nature I would love to tell you about the therapy . I call it regression but the name is imagination therapy.
I want to see if I can fix some of the insecurities from childhood that present themselves in an anxious attachment style. I completely freak out when I like someone thinking they will leave any day and I lash on. I work with the feelings of being scared, alone, rejected, left out, not good enough. I tell my therapist about the times when I was young when I experienced these feelings. After I tell the story again but with the most positive outcome ( so basically what I needed instead of rejection etc ) it’s kind of confusing the unconscious with a ” new” memory. It’s hell to go through these sessions since I experience a lot of side affects the day after ( headache nausea, crying) but I’ve done it before when I was anxious at work and it helped me tremendously.
Is that enough answer ?
More than enough. They were kind of pushy questions.
Thanks.
No pushy questions at all Sharn, I don’t mind at all writing about it, maybe it will help someone somehow. For me it did help very much the first time I did this therapy and I have my hopes up it will do me good since during the sessions a tremendous amount of grief I dont even know where it comes from comes out and the days after , I think crying and letting emotions out is always good in any case 🙂
As limerents begin to recover
Many things they start to uncover
Despite all the fuss
It’s really all about us
As ourselves we begin to discover
Scharnhorst’s “Limericks for Limerents*”
* – See https://livingwithlimerence.com/2017/05/14/limerence-music/
So true ❤️
Hi Alie, of course I want to answer (and thank you for the compliments)
I’ve been married for 15 years, in retrospect my marriage started with limerence. ( Did not know what it was at the time) I think the limerence was brought on upon the fact that I could not really ” read” my husband. ( Probably because I now think he has autism) so that made me insecure and fired up my LE, masked the fact that maybe we where not a fit, I wanted to bond , I perse wanted to marry. I wanted him.
And after 3 years ( we where married by than) my desire for him disappeared and never came back. ( Due to limerence fading) he was and is a very nice person and we did get along, I had a lot of freedom to do whatever I wanted basically so I stayed 15 years till a massive LE forced me to look at what I was missing in my marriage.
There was no real connection anymore, I kept secrets, I didn’t invest, I missed phisical love sooo much , this was a facade of a marriage . I knew my view could be clouded by my desire to be with LO so I asked myself, would I rather be alone than married even when LO runs off? ( Which he did 😀 ) And my answer was yes.
Dr L, I posted my name ! NOt that I care that te community here sees it but dont want LO to find this online!!
Can you please remove!!? Thank you
Did you try to contact him via the “Ask DrL” block?
I did send a contact email .
I assume DR L will reard it any time soon, before, ex SO, clients, patients, LO, family etc :O Hope he is not on holliday.
Will have to go in identity erasing program if that happens,
Good for NC for sure! 😀
You might want to turn off who can send you friend requests for awhile.
There are probably a fair number of lurkers on LwL.
Got it eventually!
Sorry Mia, so busy at the moment that I can only check in a couple of times a day! Hopefully no harm done…
My thankfulness borders on Corona Dr L, thank you, I’m so relieved :).
PSA: If you protect your identity somewhere, you need to protect it everywhere.
When I was a moderator for LO #2. I had limited rights to her forum but no rites to her website or Social Media accounts. She made it very clear that the posters were responsible for protecting their identity and should be careful what they post.
Someone would post either their identity or the identity of someone else and LO #4 would admonish them and fix it. I might redact or delete something on the forum.
Where someone would use a screen name on the site or forum, they’d often post on Facebook or Youtube under their real names, usually repeating something they said on the forum. You didn’t have to be a genius to positively identify someone. If they were sloppy on social media, you could see if they were connected to other posters.
If you don’t use different screen names for different accounts, you should think about it.
This is good advice. In Mia’s case, it was an honest mistake. I too have almost posted using my real name a couple of times (thankfully I caught it on time). Some browsers now auto-complete your personal information, so that can be an issue at times. I had noticed one or two people had actually used their real full names when posting (a little surprising, I guess, but if you are single and unattached and your LO is aware of your feelings, it might not be that big a deal). I have enough trouble with the fact that my LO and my wife (and likely others) would recognize me absolutely 100% for sure if they read some of my comments. I have wondered before why I tend to overshare on this site. Am I subconsciously wanting to be found out? I know most people don’t even know what limerence is and wouldn’t think to look for this site, but I suspect my LO may be limerent for my brother in-law, so maybe she has seen some of my comments? Who knows.
I have been in a strongly limerent state for 6 months. There have been some highs, but they were actually just fantasy constructs. All in all, the experience has been a harrowing and lonely ordeal. It is not even a noble struggle, just a bloody struggle with a best case Pyrhic victory at the end. All I can hope for is to walk away with a terrible beating on all fronts. I have tried everything; high amounts of exercise, journaling, talking with friends, trying to focus on new projects or work. Time and again, I thought I was making progress only to get washed back onto the rocks again. The experience has left me drained and confused…so many goals and deadlines for NC etc have come and gone that it has made a mockery of my will-power. I want to just give in, but there isnt even to fucking give in to. I want to lie down, cease to exist in my head, take a magic pill, fall in love with someone else, get completely lost in a jungle. Anything but this. I wonder that I have not gone insane yet. I somehow manage to keep the basics of my life running, but its a pathetic, drab, miserable existence, with one day needlessly bleeding into the next.
I appreciate these forums and am so impressed with the literacy and perspicacity of so many of the contributors. It makes me happy, at times, to think that there are gentle souls out there with this same affliction.
I am always at the threshold (by the way, it is my pet insistence that limerence is etymologically linked to ‘liminal’…which actually in Turkish is ‘liman’ or at the entry to port…never quite there, never quite on dry land, always in a state of almost being there, or perhaps better, of never being there, stuck in no mans land.
Im just tired, exhausted and disheartened. My SO is another thorn in my side, but the big one is my inability to make even the slightest progress. The whole damn thing is just one monotonous loop of soul-crushing disillusionment. I cannot even enumerate my good qualities; they all seem tainted by this. Determination and resolve? Twigs in a tsunami? Being a good man and living nobly? Sound like antiquated Greek philosophes I cannot relate to? My self-worth? Never was really high, but has crashed through the floor.
Can anyone recommend a powerful med that will just blow the top off my mind? I am not scared of meds or side effects at all. I tried a few – cant even remember the names – but my obsession just blew through those even when I took double doses.
The worst part is I will likely see LO on daily basis in September. I always tried to believe the old words that what doesnt kill you etc…But, how can I believe that all of this will make me stronger, when every fibre in my body feels as if it is being torn apart, and every traditional weapon I possess against adversity is just a cheap, fake toy in this daily battle.
I went through suicidal thoughts a few months ago, but those have subsided. Still, there is no way I would trust myself to go walking along misty cliffs or anything like that.
I know it will end some day. But who will I be? Will I really survive intact, or most implausibly, somehow happier, wiser, or anything at all in a positive way. I fear I will always hold out this thing for LO, always harbour jealous thoughts, always cave any time she glances at me.
I did not cry much at the start, if at all, but this past week or two I have been fighting back tears most evenings.
Being limerent just seems to suck. People go about their days with enormous struggles and are valiant in their perseverances. I love that. I respect that. And I feel something like contempt for myself with my insane obsession, with no purpose, nobility, or prospect of reward. I think limerence represents the low point in human idiocy.
I wish you all the best. I do not intend to demean your struggles, but these are my unfiltered thoughts on mine.
Take it easy, right?
Steve did you talk to a doctor or therapist?
I don’t think its wise if we randomly start to name medication, buy maybe a professional can think with you what could help, medication or therapy etc.
We hear your suffering, and believe me, you are not alone, just had a good old cry because I was so sick and tired of the obsession today, worse than the last weeks. And there is nothing I can do except accept that I’m cursed with this for now. Keep posting here, that might also help a little
Thank you Mia. I know about the meds thing. years of living abroad and I have developed the habit of self-medicating. I never take street drugs, though I have relied on meds for past few years. My demon is always alcohol, so it leads to a fairly ‘loose’ attitude on meds. I know you are totally right. Also, my SO is a complete naturopath, so if she finds anything, even if prescribed, she immediately goes ballistic and throws them out.
I hope you get through the lachrimose stage. It is hard to live like that, the ferris wheel of life going around, and we sit there crying? The worst part of this affliction is only another limerent can sympathize. I wish you the best in this.
Hi Steve,
So sorry to hear about what you are going through. Limerence does end. Really. We do come out the other side humbler, and yes, wiser if we can extract the embedded lessons well enough. The best part about this blog is it is packed with knowledge. Deep, soul-satisfying knowledge. Just knowing that your/our failures to turn the limerence off are not character failings, but come as a result of deeply entrenched structures in our limbic system that are designed to keep the pre-frontal cortex from overriding them. Hundreds of thousands of years of human evolution have gone into this programming, so without Herculean efforts, it is really hard to overcome them. So knowledge is definitely power in this case.
The second best thing is the kindness and compassion in this community. Starting with Dr. L sharing his copious knowledge, his brilliant insight and uplifting humor, and then the comments of all the contributors. From prehistoric times we have needed to belong to a tribe. Especially in troubling times. This is a pretty good one to offer solace, comfort and encouragement. It can be indispensible in recovery.
Take heart. Do not give up. There is a Emergency Deprogramming Course: https://courses.livingwithlimerence.com/courses/emergency-deprogramming-course. It works, but it is hard work. Follow all the directions. They lead to liberation.
Thank you, Bert. I agree completely about this community. I feel it is one of the few outlets I have and am so grateful for it. Dr. L is god-like in my mind; witty, urbane, and really speaks to the heart of this subject in a way I never even knew could exist 6 months ago. I will have a look at the crash course. I only have a month and a half to when I will see my LO daily. For God’s sakes, I am even hoping for 2nd wave of Covid (if only people would not be harmed).
I might consider changing jobs, but market is very tight. Right now, it feels like I am waiting for the grim reaper.
take care and thank you again
Valium 10mg but you’ll only be ‘knocked out’ for several hours. As long as you don’t abuse it, it will help with looping thoughts. Chasing it down with alcohol is my secret cocktail.
haha…I actually tried valium. I live in Istanbul, so some things can be gotten easily. Alcohol is problematic for me, at best. Unfortunately, my drug of choice has been large doses of baclofen, which is itself an empathogen, so rather than calm obsessive thoughts, I think it makes you feel even more dependent on a person. Im trying to kick it. Valium is pretty addictive and not one of the meds I can easily get here.
I do need to be knocked out for a while. I will consult a psychiatrist.
I am at a beach resort now and I woke up and had a great run. Then I read all these replies and I was overwhelmed by it. I dont think I ever received a reply to anything I posted online. I have to say that this is the most charming group of individuals I have ever encountered. Do only super-cool, sensitive and great people get limerent? That would figure…I actually cracked a smile at this today. Thank you so, so much everyone.
We all benefit from this community.
Good thing you go see a psychiatrist.
What helpes me, is st Johns wort. Really. It calmes me down when I get really upset.
In my first massive LE I started antidepressant, and it helped at the time.
This time i started with a SSRI again and it doesn’t do anything.
I just sit it out till I feel better again and that day will definitely come.
Then don’t take the stuff that doesn’t help! Valium is addictive, if you let it be. You have to control your intake based on how bad the episodes get. I take it maybe once a week and it’s almost like my reward for surviving a week without it. SSRIs are tricky because of the multiple side effects. To me they’re just not worth it. Don’t forget one of the side effects is also suicidal ideation and suicide. Was watching Michael hutchence documentary on YouTube and his bandmates openly talked about how he kept taking prozac even though it never made him feel better and in the end we know the man killed himself. So be careful.
Sorry for over-posting, but this is the best outlet I have found and I will calm down after this initial outburst.
So, in sum, Im on 2nd marriage, late forties, have wonderful child and a few things going ok at work, etc.
7 months ago, LO asked if I had any part time work (I also run a business). I was quite neutral about her, so I said OK, I would give it a try. A few weeks in, and one day I woke up paralyzed with limerence about her. I did not immediately shut it down. It felt sweet. Then after a month or two, the pain became acute. I told her I could not work with her. But she had also developed a co-dependence…I had been rewarding her well for relatively easy work (or rather hardly any work at all). So, in short, she also did not want to break it off, though she was disturbed by my obsessive texting, proclamations of love etc. This pattern continued for 3-4 months. We did not see each other for 3 months during Covid, but were in daily touch and I kept sending her money when I got buzzed at nights. It felt good. I told myself that she deserved it, is a good person (entirely is in fact), etc, but it also was not great for my finances. And I created a co-dependence, now she gets angry when I suggest NC because she knows it will mean I cut off that support (which I cannot really keep up…I have huge monthly expenses and Covid keeps my earning power in check).
Now, she disincentivizes my NC, scoffs at it, calls me weak, says I should just be mature and professional and put my feelings aside, then blocks me as punishment for initiating NC, which I did exactly 36 hours ago. I can almost hear her laughing at my attempts. She told me that by trying to do this I only make the temptation greater. She might even be right…who knows? I think I once went 10 days NC. I do not even know how I did that. Yesterday, I struggled all day, peevishly wanting to demand why she blocked me. In the end, I got through one ragged day of NC. Today is Day 2 and I have no idea if I will be overwhelmed.
I love the idea of green shoots…have seen them shine through during other dark periods in my life, but I cannot say that I have benefitted from any in past 6 months. I mean, how many stoic quotes can you read – and not embody – before you lose all faith? How many long runs? How many tear filled vodka episodes? How much binge watching of netflix, just to shut up the mind? How many times can I lean on friends?
I do feel that the one godsend is this forum. I am also hear if anyone wants to reach out. I am sorry about my frantic and bitter tone. I really am sick of limerence. I wish I could crush it extreme prejudice, with a stick…or walk to the worlds highest point to rid myself of it. Whatever it takes, right?
You don’t have to apologize, Steve, we all turn here when things get rough and I think we all want to help, us limerents have so much to give.
I think most people go NC ( after few attempts) when they literally can’t take it anymore. I know I did, at that point anything, any pain, any misery would be better than the high – low rollercoaster. And it sounds like you are reaching that point. ( I’m in NC for 8 weeks, it’s the hardest thing I’ve ever done, and I also have never been more proud of myself that I choose myself over LO, over addiction ).
I must admit I’m a little shocked to hear what LO does to you.
Toxic to say in a mild way, abusive in a more realistic way.
What person takes advantage, financially from someone who is CLEARLY not well and struggling, and instead of having the integrity to help you by backing off she calls you weak and wants you to stay miserable for her own good and blocks you for punishment??
I know saying you should stop sending her money probably will not help you, but pls go see a psychiatrist who you can share your story with and who can help you re build your self asteem and take power back.
Because this is not right.
Meanwhile keep posting here, we are here for you .
Thank you so much Mia. I am not sure if she is abusive. I am a realistic. I created a co-dependence. And in return for a while indulged in limerence til it became unbearable. She is into healing and all that stuff and I think she honestly believes I can overcome all this through meditation. And one of my basic beliefs is that we all act out of self-interest, usually not intending to hurt others. But it is a powerful thing, sometimes we can turn the blind eye. Anyway, I am pretty determined to not send her money anymore, but this limerence has made me question my motives even for doing that? Am I perversely trying to prove my worth to her…that she needs me? I came as a breath of fresh air when she was really struggling, I know that.
But is all this NC really not just another mind-trick of mine? I feel as if I may be trying to show her my independence in the hope that she will change her mind and love me. I exhausted the other approaches. Am I just doing this as an extension of the old tactics?
Anyway Mia, I hope you are doing well. Maybe you could just find another person to love to short circuit all this limerence? It is not easy for me, as I have an SO, but as absurd as it sounds, I would willingly do it just as a change to all this. 7 months ago I was bopping along pretty ok with everything, and really was not looking for love at all. But my advice to you, if you are not married, try to find someone else. That might be easier than all this suffering. Sure, you can learn a lot from it…but also life passes by…time is literally flying out the window, that is how I feel
tc
steve
Thank you Steve, I’ve thought about that but its not the right time, I either will not like anyone or shift my LE to another person and create a whole mess again. I will date for sure but not now. Maybe in a month or two. Right now I take my recovery very seriously and I’m in the mids of therapy.
For you, you take a lot of blame on yourself, no one can ” create” co dependency. And even if you are co dependent it’s not right to take money from someone, but that’s my opinion.
Hang in there Steve !
Thx Mia..you are probably right. I will see it one day. Maybe it’s too painful to confront truth at this time…again thank you
Sorry for over-posting, but this is the best outlet I have found and I will calm down after this initial outburst.
So, in sum, Im on 2nd marriage, late forties, have wonderful child and a few things going ok at work, etc.
7 months ago, LO asked if I had any part time work (I also run a business in addition to working in day job with LO, plus living in same neighborhood…yeah, the trifecta of horrors). I was quite neutral about her, so I said OK, I would give it a try. A few weeks in, and one day I woke up paralyzed with limerence about her. I did not immediately shut it down. It felt sweet. Then after a month or two, the pain became acute. I told her I could not work with her. But she had also developed a co-dependence…I had been rewarding her well for relatively easy work (or rather hardly any work at all). So, in short, she also did not want to break it off, though she was disturbed by my obsessive texting, proclamations of love etc. This pattern continued for 3-4 months. We did not see each other for 3 months during Covid, but were in daily touch and I kept sending her money when I got buzzed at nights. It felt good. I told myself that she deserved it, is a good person (entirely is, in fact), etc, but it also was not great for my finances. And I created a co-dependence, now she gets angry when I suggest NC because she knows it will mean I cut off that support (which I cannot really keep up anyway…I have huge monthly expenses and Covid keeps my earning power in check).
Now, she disincentivizes my NC, scoffs at it, calls me weak, says I should just be mature and professional and put my feelings aside, then blocks me as punishment for initiating NC, which I did exactly 36 hours ago. I can almost hear her laughing at my attempts. She told me that by trying to do this I only make the temptation greater. She might even be right…who knows? I think I once went 10 days NC. I do not even know how I did that. Yesterday, I struggled all day, peevishly wanting to demand why she blocked me. In the end, I got through one ragged day of NC. Today is Day 2 and I have no idea if I will be overwhelmed.
I love the idea of green shoots…have seen them shine through during other dark periods in my life, but I cannot say that I have benefitted from any in past 6 months. I mean, how many stoic quotes can you read – and not embody – before you lose all faith? How many long runs? How many tear filled vodka episodes? How much binge watching of netflix, just to shut up the mind? How many times can I lean on friends? Most days pass pretty uneventfully, with a pervasive gloom that begins on waking til I fall asleep. There is not even any variety – well unless you can count the Black Sundays (my term for especially bad days, which often seem to fall on Sundays.)These days are hellishly painful and unpleasant intrusive thoughts torment me (my LO happily with another, etc). Jealousy runs through my life. I certainly do not want her to be happy…at least with another, and I never will want that. I know my limitations and how small I am. When I heard she was going on holiday, I almost vomited. When I know she will go out at night, again I want to vomit. She is 12 yrs younger than me and exceptionally beautiful and refined. I know that I will never have something like this again. I keep thinking of one of my heroes, Anthony Bourdain, and I know damn well why he killed himself. And shit, his life was 10 times better than mine. But he was brought to the act out of jealousy and out of the knowledge that he would never have again what he had with his woman. Pure and simple. I know it with all my heart and intellect. Being a realist can really suck. He looked ahead 1o years and he didnt like what he saw, despite celebrity, riches, being universally loved, also having a daughter, not married or encumbered, boatloads of friends and staff dependent on him. And then there is us, standing here with a few twigs in our hands held up in shape of a cross, waiting for the next gigantic wave of limerence to come crashing down on our heads.
And then there is the dark side. The thoughts of stalking, of annihilation. I try to use negative visualization of her with someone else, but then I feel sick, or want to masturbate. I feel a pretty intense sexual longing for her, but more than anything I just want to hug her, to feel what it would be like to have her in my arms. I imagine her singing to me….but then the darkness descends; I am sure this darkness is more common for men, with our dastardly coded DNA working against our reason and higher faculties. And these days, it is that feeling that rules. The lighter side of limerence; the romantic folly and comedy of it all, is long gone. The state of forever grappling with this perversion and sickness is all that is left. LO is still there, miraculously, but for what, to what end? I would like to hear your sick experiences with limerence, the more harrowing, the better.
I do feel that the one godsend is this forum. I am also here if anyone wants to reach out. I am sorry about my hysteric and bitter tone. I really am sick of limerence. I wish I could crush it with extreme prejudice, with a club…or walk to the worlds highest point to rid myself of it. Whatever it takes, right?
What’s missing from your posts, Steve, is your hopes for the future. You are deep in the pit of limerence, and we all know how that feels, but there has to be something purposeful that you can commit to in order to get out. I know it’s not easy when LO has completely dominated your thinking for so long, but… that kind of illustrates the point. You need something else to dominate your thoughts – some positive goal to work towards that will help you reach freedom.
And, yes, I agree with Mia that she sounds manipulative and you should definitely stop sending her money. It probably comes from an urge to impress her, and show how valuable/beneficent you are, but has now got into a toxic cycle that she is trapped in too. It’s better for you both if you don’t keep playing the sugar daddy, especially as you have an actual child who would benefit from that wealth more.
So: what could it be? What goal or project could fire you? What do you want your marriage to be like? What could you do to make that happen?
A lot of people avoid these questions, as they are scary in their implications, but they have to be confronted if you want to take control of your fate.
One of the most inspiring features about Dr. L’s approach to recovery is “purposeful living”. I wonder if there is an analysis about the psychological and/or neurological benefits, since it is so foundational to your method? Is that already posted somewhere here? (I searched…)
Steve, in his emergency course, he writes about the choices we make – down back into the pit or up and out towards freedom. If we understand what our actions do, it helps us make better choices. Some small gains sometimes soothe the seemingly intolerable pain.
There are lots of good posts here about the stages of limerence and the recovery process. Learning the sequence will help provide light at the end of the tunnel, and again, help mitigate the pain.
But the place to start is with a commitment to move on. Pain is a great motivator, but it takes determination to win the battle: https://livingwithlimerence.com/2019/11/23/resolving-to-recover/. Hang in there!
Thank you Bert. I do realize that I must take urgent steps. I read this post, excellent as all the others I have read. I think I have reached my quota on pain. I need to prepare myself to do some heavy lifting. I think I am slowly acquiring resolve. In one of the blogs it discussed how resolve is about moving in the right direction, not being perfect. If there are any green shoots, maybe it is this – in the past 2 weeks, with this horrible flare up – I have at least begun to contemplate disconnecting entirely from LO. I dont think I ever seriously considered that before. It is definitely feeling more tangible now. It could happen through some incredible act of will. I guess I know there will be set backs. I just hope my resolve carries me in the right direction. Im 2 days NC. Been a pretty see-saw affair. I wish limerence would take a weekend off here or there. I think I will try to procure some valium for the more hellish days – those are also the days when I am most vulnerable to firing off multiple pathetic emails or doing even worse. Maybe I need that crutch, that temporary reward, as I work towards the longer, harder to attain goals.
Thank you again. let me know when you need that shoulder and you can tell me your LO history any time. I actually would like to hear it. Maybe you could refer me to a post here that summarizes it?
Cheers
k
Dear Dr. L
Thank you so much. Your input is inspiring and full of truths and I will endeavour to follow through.
As with many patients, co-morbidities abound. My relationship with SO is a mess. But I cannot even tackle that now. It is too formidable. It is the raging limerence of the past few weeks that I know I have to bring under control, then pick up the pieces and assess if marriage can be saved etc.
I agree to stop sending money. That was always tricky on every level. I am on day 2 of NC. Do you think I should continue?
I do have passions and things that fire me, sometimes exercise, but particularly my business. I love to keep busy and I operate best at that level. The issue here is Covid has slackened demand and I cannot really create that and I cannot do much more by way of preparation. So, I have my day job which keeps me somewhat busy, but nowhere near enough. Lots of energy spent catering to needy wife, which of course irritates me (takes time away from LO ( :
So, I agree I need to find something else and pretty urgently. Im on 10 day holiday with wife who is especially nagging these days, so with the newly initiated NC and bad limerent flare up, I am riding through purest hell on a rickety bike with two flats, and, of course, faulty brakes.
I thank you again and I look for the opportunity to return the kindness.
Just one more question, is there never an A-ha moment with this, a breakthrough, a crack in the ice where there is a fundamental shift? Is it all about labour and self-abnegation, and then a kind of blind faith that feelings will eventually dissipate? Seems a tough path, to be sure. In the past 6 months, I was looking for breakthroughs, thought it happened once or twice, only to be pushed back into limerent hell. I certainly have learned not to get my hopes up.
Kind regards
K
“Lots of energy spent catering to needy wife, which of course irritates me (takes time away from LO ( :
So, I agree I need to find something else and pretty urgently. Im on 10 day holiday with wife who is especially nagging these days, so with the newly initiated NC and bad limerent flare up, I am riding through purest hell on a rickety bike with two flats, and, of course, faulty brakes.”
Is she truly needy or is it that any time and attention you give to her is time and attention not devoted to LO? Is she more stressed or making more inquiries because she is aware that something isn’t quite right and is trying to make sense of your behavior? Have you told her that you are completely distracted by someone at work or have you simply let her believe it is “work stress”?
Also, in light of your recent posts about LO, are you quite certain you aren’t projecting your neediness onto your wife? Is she really demanding more than what is usual and customary in a marriage? Or your marriage?
If she is that much of a bother and hassle, do the right thing, go to an attorney, draw up a separation agreement and set her free.
Steve,
Rather than belabor you with the tale of my stint in Limerent Rehab, let me just tell you that the first weeks were absolute agony…the emotional pain indescribable and I longed for anything to relieve it….life would be unbearable if it went on like that endlessly. But I chose to soldier on, even if it meant I would never be happy again (which i suspected could be the case). But, the heart was designed to heal and heal I did, and now I am reclaiming self respect and self worth that limerence had insidiously and secretly destroyed. Reason and logic are returning to all areas of thought…and appreciation for the slightest of things….soft breezes or the design of leaves on a plant, the pleasurable smell of cinnamon and coffee, and tolerance and fondness emerging for even the most difficult of personalities. I really think you are on the brink of something good…and you are stronger than Anthony. You are about to trade cheap and disloyal thrills for something real and your legacy will be something to admire rather than one of embarrassment. Godspeed!
Interesting and thank you. How long are you into the recovery process? Was there a defining moment or some clear point where you felt you adopted a recovery mindset? Did you adhere to purposeful living and we’re there any hacks for that (ie anything you found that worked well)? I have always believed that (wo) man is the risible animal. I know l cannot count myself well til l can laugh freely and fully, without those pangs of pain shooting through. I crack a smile from time to time, but 7 months no real laughs.Finally, did you implement NC and did it stick? Relapses? What brought about decision for NC? Thank you again for your encouragement. It helped me to hold a productive meeting with my executive committee where the monster emotional CEO agreed in principle to start ceding some power back to the committee. It has been a long standing imbalance with a rogue CEO in full dictator mode.
For me, personally, there where no aha- moments, no breat through, it was making a decision with my last piece of dignity and sanity to pull the plug and go NC , I was completely unhappy unhealthy and done, after that it was and still is sometimes just hard labour, going in withdraw, screaming in my pillow, crying for days, breathing the cravings away, journaling every day, therapy, meditate, and above all accept that every second of the day I doubt my decision and think about ways to contact LO, when and how I will contact and how I will behave towards him when we are in contact again. It’s okay to think that, as long as I don’t contact.
Not now anyway, and so I kept NC for 55 days now, every day I think ” just not today ” .
I’m allowed to contact him, just not today.
And even though I still think about LO all the time and it drives me nuts, I can also really enjoy things again, and have genuine fun, something I could not anymore before NC , it does get better.
Really
“Just not TODAY” resonates with me! 😉
I am very proud and afraid of how LO perceives me so any mistep towards humiliating myself is a motivating force to keep going with NC (haven’t we mentioned this on here before?)
Congrats and keep going. One more day?
Yeah, just today seems the lowest possible chunk. If l break it into hours, it is just too tiresome. I got thru day 2 NC but lm still annoyed at being blocked. Probably have to get over that cuz lm concerned that’s my obvious pre text for breaking NC. my disclosures always come back to haunt me. I told her b4 blocking collapses me.
Hang in there Mia. I keep thinking there must be an easier route for you. But you know yourself best.
Just today ( : Limerent fighting words
There is not Steve, and that is okay, today I’m leaving for Paris with a friend and I’m so genuinely happy, I came so far in 2 months. I thank the hard work, the pain the tears. It pays off.
And I’m not doing the hard work just to get over current LO, but for my future, to grow, to have more change of a healthy relationship, LO is just a tiny little factor of why I’m choosing the hard way. Healing is always though the pain and towards the fear.
Paris?!
I’m soooo jealous.
Clip of the Day: “Aragorn at the Black Gate” – “The Return of the King” (2003)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXGUNvIFTQw
“…but it is not this day.”
This day we fight, by all what is us dear ! Spot on Sharny!
Hi Scharnhorst
Did you ever break NC? If yes, why? Were you able to move on after relapse? Its as if I am planning my relapse. I once had an alcoholic friend who used to fantasize about his relapses.
The issue is I know that a relapse will bring no reward or joy. I have already written several draft emails, yet I know that getting a response that will bring me joy is so unlikely, because All I have to say to her is to ask to unblock me.
I left the door open for her to contact me. I think she will if I do not contact her, though it could be a while. I have also tired her. I am pretty curious about her contacting me and I am worried it might not be for the right reasons, which will further hurt. I know that NC is right for me. I guess I am just anxious about screwing it up…and the fact that she can also easily contact me, so its not really NC, truly.
Confusion abounds.
Lo #2, No, in 32 years, I never relapsed with her but there were times I thought about it. The therapist asked me if I’d ever re-engage LO #2. I told her not as long as I was married. The therapist said that after reading my history of the relationship and talking to me, her professional recommendation is that even if I ever become available again, I have nothing to do with her. I said maybe LO #2 had changed. The therapist’s response was that they can change but people like her usually don’t and after spending all this time with someone who wasn’t like her, why would I want to go back to her?
When LO #2 sent the FB request, I told my wife. She asked if accepted it and I said No. She asked if I was curious and I said Very but there was only one way to find out and I asked my wife if she was willing to accept that risk. My wife hesitated a few seconds, looked at me and said No. I said I wouldn’t accept it but I was going to leave it up awhile to see if she’d remove it. After a few weeks, I posted some things that would let LO #2 know I’d received the request and then I deleted it. I have no idea if she ever saw what I posted but I never heard from her again. That was 7 years ago. The friend request may have been an accident.
About half the women I’ve said goodbye to over the years have circled back, usually with about 6 months of saying goodbye. After we said goodbye, I relapsed and posted something on her professional FB page. The post lasted 8 minutes and I lasted 9 minutes before she banned me from posting on her professional site. She’d blocked me on her personal site before the goodbye.
About 3 years after goodbye, I got a robot email from her about changes she was making to her site. I was still on the mailing list. She caught me in a pissy mood and I replied with a one line email asking her to delete the account. She kind of complied and I sent an email back saying thank you and wishing her a happy birthday. I got an email reply back from her. Nothing in either of them hinted at renewing the acquaintance.
A few months after that was the 10th anniversary of her business. I assumed she’d somehow mark the occasion. I waffled about sending her an email about it. I wanted to congratulate her before she announced it to show I’d remembered. (Limerence can pop up periodically). I decided I’d need a sign. We have a time difference in my advantage. I was drinking coffee and I read my horoscope and it was like it was a message from the cosmos. I went ahead and sent it. I never saw a reply but a few hours later, she posted about the anniversary and said she hadn’t remembered until a former member emailed and reminded her. Points for me! We’ve had no contact of any type since. Mid-August will mark the one year anniversary of my last social media drive-by on her.
I initially thought a lot about how I’d re-engage LO #2 if I was available. New Year’s Day will be the 5th anniversary of our goodbye. My life has changed a lot in those years and I don’t know if I would re-engage her now should be become available. I don’t intend to become available so we’ll revisit one should my circumstances change.
LO #2 has her own chapter in my life. LO #4 is a footnote.
Did that help any?
I forgot the part about when LO #2 sent the FB friend request and I was thinking about it, my dead father came back in a dream to warn me not to re-engage LO #2.
Starting at “About half the women…” I’m referring to LO #4.
Not on my game this morning.
These are very long time frames. Do you still feel strong limerence and all the associated pain ? I really hope not, as l wonder how you could possibly endure it for so many years. For sure, l could not. I would get a self-labotomy if this lasts another year
I don’t feel the limerence anymore. I spent a lot of time with pros getting to the bottom of it.
As for the pain, it’s mostly gone. Every so often I’ll feel sad that it didn’t work. The thing is now, I can’t even develop an idea of what that might have looked like. What I don’t feel anymore was that there was something I could have done to alter the outcome. Part of the reason the time frame was so long is I repressed it. Events in my life had me looking back and questioning my decisions in life, particularly giving up on LO #2. Had I missed something, what if I’d said something or did something different. It took two therapists to convince me to stop looking under leaves and turning over rocks. I played a straight game with LO #2 and it didn’t produce the desired outcome. I didn’t believe the first one so I saw a second one. Same opinion.
I’ve said it before. The first two years we were together, I was happier than I’d ever been in my life. LO #2 showed me happiness was possible for me. I learned so much from her. The holidays with her were like the best parts of a Hallmark movie. I can listen to songs from that period and smile. It’s the songs that bring up the death-spiral I can’t listen to, anymore.
More important, I was never made to feel responsible for the outcome. It wasn’t that LO #2 didn’t like things, she was afraid it wouldn’t last and I’d take off on her. She flat out said it to my face. One therapist said it was a confession and she exonerated me. I came out of that relationship thinking that relationship hadn’t worked but maybe the next one would, and it did.
Dirty little secret: You often come out of an LE or dysfunctional relationship with more baggage than you went in with but you never come out with any less. The baggage I brought into my relationship with LO #2 followed me right into my marriage and it had nothing to do with LO #2.
The LE with LO #4 showed me that while I’d come a long way, I had some more work to do to address that baggage. Discovering limerence was the last piece in explaining how all the things in my life were manifesting themselves.
Hell, yeah!!! I’m in the mood for it.
Probably l have been Limerent 5 times in my life. The worst was in my late 20s when l fell for a Romanian model. For 1 full year l pursued her with no return. Then one day she showed up at my house with all her bags. She moved in. We had a relationship for about 2 months, the whole time l behaved like a lunatic and never felt balanced with her (exactly same as current LO). The worst part was the lesson l seem to have taken from this; don’t give up. So l suppose it works against me. I really have huge doubts it would happen again and even if it did, it would probably end up badly as before. Apart from me being married and older, we are not a terrible mismatch. It is within the realm of possibility but highly highly unlikely. It would take an utter fool to bet on it, or a limerent. I wish one day l would be strong enough to turn down a proposal if it ever came. Intuitively, l doubt l would. That is a problem. Being able to turn down LO would seem like the ultimate act of independence and freedom from chains of LOship…seems like a distant dream.
I sent LO a short message today saying that blocking me is not helpful as it interferes with my recovery (takes away free will and all that). I kept it very short and it wasnt too peevish or grovelling. So ended a 3 day streak, but I resolve to get back on track, no matter what she responds. I guess if she says she will continue to block me, I will have to use that somehow. I do not think she will respond too nicely; thats just my instinct.
I do feel ready to take on NC seriously, which is a first, so I need to keep in thaat direction. God help me, it is a new week.
May the force be with you all, too.
Let her block you, even better.
Be blocked! Blocked is the new not blocked! If she blocks you or not shouldn’t really matter in your recovery. Blocking is her frustration. Your recovery is yours and when you start it, you can be damn proud.
Good for you that you take NC seriously.
We are here to support you climbing out of the darkness.
Thank you Mia. The worst part about breaking NC is waiting for an answer and destroying another day. And then thinking, ‘wait a sec, did she block email, too?’
I doubt she did, as she never has before. If she did, then I know for sure it is a kind of punishment, and though very disheartening, it may motivate me. What a mess. After I get through this, it is NC for real, block or no block.
I hope Paris is nice. I am in incredible Kalkan Bay…not enjoying one single moment of it. I feel guilty like someone else should be here in my place, people who would appreciate it. Another limerent low blow…relentless.
If you are in kalkan, have a cocktail in the chocolate bar for me!
I go to kalkan every year, it’s my fav place in the world! The beautiful beach, the cute little streets.
Doj Doj and the pirat haman.
It’s so sad you are not enjoying it, I know the feeling, you can tell yourself whatever you want but the happy hormones are just not there. Last time I was in kalkan I just met LO and I was staring at my phone all day.
But you don’t have to feel guilty, it’s sad enough for you as it is.
Im feeling less hysterical and frantic today, but still pretty manic, pretty all over the place. SO is on my back, too, so it is really nuts. I feel more of a grinding frustration, some anger, and some sadness (I am hoping that wont take over again, though I am not sure which is worse – the anger or the sadness. I went for my run this morning- one of the few things I ever look forward to- so no more positive buzz from that til tomorrow.
Learned on weekend my daughter’s arthritis -yeah, kids can get it – is back. I might weaponize that to attack this bloody limerence.
Best wishes for your daughter.
I had juvenile rheumatoid arthritis as a kid. I was lucky and it hasn’t returned.
Do you think she genuinely cares how you feel?
Im not sure now. I thought we had some kind of at least friendship
no she doesnt…she picked my most vulnerable time to slay me, just when I was starting to get serious about recovery. I must recover.
Steve, this is a really important moment, as others have pointed out. You have to go no contact now, or risk causing some serious harm to yourself (and frightening her, potentially).
The basic fact to internalise: relief from limerence will not come from her. She can’t lift this spell off you. There’s no form of interaction with her that will go to your satisfaction or allow you to peacefully move into the future. She is not responsible for your feelings, and she has made it very clear that she no longer wants to interact with you as a friend. You have to take that seriously.
Relief from limerence has to come from within you. You have to recognise (and really believe) that those feelings come from your personal triggers and personal history, and that your LO was kind of the screen that you projected your desires onto. That means the work of resolving them is solitary work, internal work.
You can get through it. Many of us here have been through the same thing and come out the other side. Life can be much better than this. But recovery starts with acknowledging it’s your own burden to bear and no-one else can fix it for you.
Oh no…I think she blocked me everywhere…telephone, email. Im freaking out big time. She has never done that before and we left off pretty ok last thursday. I think Im losing it. This is really too much.
I think I understand…
yep, she finally picked up, told me I was harrassing her (guilty as charged), told me she wanted me out of her life forever…
So it goes. I just want to get drunk and cry, but I cant even do that. Work, other commitments etc. And another damn day already destroyed…beyond any recognition of ‘day’ ness, just a cheap imitation of what a day can be. The whole bloody thing is just detritus.
Listen to her!
If you run like many of us do, sooner or later you’re going to start thinking about turning this around and getting back in her good graces. Bad idea. You’ve been warned.
If you think it can’t get worse, imagine the effect a restraining order will have on your life.
yeah, I know. It is a possibility. But I didnt understand…’If you run..’
what the hell can I do? Walk away, run away…stay? I didnt get it, sorry
I’ll tell you the same thing the therapist told me with respect to LO #4.
“Get away from her and stay away from her. Stay involved with this woman and this will not end well for you.”
Yep. I know someone who was charged and convicted of criminal harassment. Honestly, it doesn’t take much, especially in this day and age after #MeToo! Trust me, you don’t want that Steve. Just leave her the hell alone and try to use her rejection of you as fodder for your recovery from limerence. All the best. I know it’s really hard!
@Shar… you had some wise therapists. Lucky you. Any other wisdom you could share from what you’ve collected from them over the years re limerance? Not to discount, of course, what Dr.L has written. Due to raging covid in the good ole’US, our access to in person mental health is limited.
Steve,
This is rock bottom. Take a look around and tell yourself this is the day that you’ll eventually look back on as the start of your recovery.
She has given you a gift, it may not feel like it but she has. She has given you the gift of certainty – she has unequivocally removed any lingering hope you had. Take the gift, remove her from your life in every possible way, and resolve to start afresh. I would think very hard about professional help, but otherwise go through Dr L’s emergency course 3-4 times and drum it in.
Things WILL pick up. My rock bottom was just over 18m ago, falling out spectacularly with LO as we went NC. I was just left so undone by the whole thing, I was a mess. Things improved but I relapsed a few months later with a text and she was pretty unequivocal with me too. I was gutted, but it was what I needed, the final embers being snuffed out. Now, I’m in good shape, well onto the road to full recovery and LO is a speck in my rear view mirror. It takes willpower and time, but its achievable.
Yeah, Im too bloodied and battered to think more today. I know it is rock bottom.I just wish I had said ‘no mas’ in the third round instead of prolonging the senseless beating. I just hope I can sleep.
I second that about being given the gift of certainty. Uncertainty is the fuel for limerence. Without that, it will die.
Fuck, she means business. Please don’t send her anything else, don’t call, don’t try to reach out. I hate to say it but respect her wishes. Better to walk away with a shred of dignity attached than none at all. It hurts like hell. We know. It’s over and one day, you’ll appreciate her drawing the circle in the sand (I’m still waiting for that day.)
There is no rule in the universe that it should be so relentless, limerence. In fact, it is contrary to all logic.
All the highs are long gone, and certainly gone forever after today. Im just sitting here with a few twigs in my hand, wishing I had never met her. Really, why did I? Didnt have to happen, was completely unnecessary. If such random, senseless acts are permissible, why not a few days peace for me? If life is brutish, nasty and short, how about giving us more of the short? Love between men and women is a farce at best. You can only love children. The rest is all just in your head.
This is depression, denial, shock to your sense, anxiety, guilt speaking through you. Life can be brutal at times but don’t let this one person destroy it forever. What I’m about to share with you will hurt and it still hurts me to say it but… they don’t really care. Their lives keep going. If we pop into their minds, it’s always a fleeting thought at best.
yes, thank you. Some of me knows it. Its just carnage at the moment, a total lockdown on anything positive. Probably the worst day I have ever gone through. All the metaphors in my head are about giving up; I have never felt such a void of hope; light. The world has dimmed and shrunk around me in a strait-jacket of despondency. Somehow I will make it through, I know. I just have no idea how yet.
This might be irresponsible to suggest to a stranger but a low dose of self medicating could help you get through this for a short while. Alcohol is a depressant but it does help with knocking one out just to get some sleep. So are benzos (Xanax, valium, etc.) Weed. Stupid mindless entertainment on youtube. Then finally on the healthy spectrum, walking in nature, solitude of nature, ocean, open fields. Please let us know how you’re feeling tomorrow.
I allowed myself to get some sort of relief to shift my addiction from LO to my phone, this site, watching endless videos on you tube “how to get my ex back” .it’s okay, I will stop with that when the time is there. What ever it takes to get through the first weeks of NC.
And do tell yourself every day
” This is the best and most healthy decision I have ever taken in my life. I’m proud to be an adult.”
Skipped my run today, slept in a bit. Didnt feel at all like getting out of bed. A feeling of dread regularly surges through me. I feel some resentment over how the last part played out, especially that I acted so predictably to the bait, became so obsessive and threw dignity out the window. I think one day, the way she played the last part, will help me. It was a bit mean-spirited for my taste, but I wont dwell on blame. I hope I can tune some of it out today. Yesterday shook me pretty bad. Thank you all for your comments and advice; always containing truths. I will seek some medication when I get back home, to get me through this patch.
When does the laughter return?
I miss my fun-loving self. I look back on my twenties and thirties and I was such a carefree person; not bad or mindless; quite harmless, but I really was a joker, always seeking out laughs and enjoying them. I was off-beat, fun to be with, risible, prone to fits of delight and unassailable mirth. I kinda liked that guy. I am sure he did more good in the world with that approach. He wouldve been up and seeking some fun or adventure in the day, not just praying for it to end. What a damn shame. He never prepared for this day…how could we? This limerence catches us off guard and feeds off the surprise attack advantage for a long long time. What a miserable, gutless parasite.
I refresh my email 100 times a day at least. I look at a blocked out whatsapp number. Tears are always there, just being held back out of stubbornness. Anger is there, suppressed (but for how long?) Resentment, self-loathing, crushed self-worth, paralyzed will-power. The only thing that keeps me going is there is no way back.
‘When you are in hell, keep going’….I picked up this quote on the forum. It is the only thing that makes sense in my life right now. It is a perfectly unglamorous quote, does not offer much by way of promise. It just fits.
My limerence lies mortally wounded after a final volley of arrows rained down on it. It insists it can survive, if only nurtured and fed. I mutter to myself, ‘I think I did enough for you, you f-ing ingrate’
Steve, a lot of us feel what you feel and I can just repeat what others have said: this is pretty deep down in the valley (I wouldn’t say rock bottom as it can always get worse, restraining order and all as Sharnhorst was saying…). But it will get better eventually. Time will heal even if it doesn’t seem it will at this time.
Allow yourself to grief, lay in bed, stay in a dark room and do the minimum required to keep your life going. But know that one day you will have to peel yourself out of bed and decide that you will have to take the steps to get better.
Also as mentioned, see if you can get professional help to get through this. While we of course are here to listen, we are all no professionals.
Steve, it is hard but you will get through this. She’s helping you, as she said she wants no further contact.
Thank you Sarah. I dont think I would let it get to the point of restraining order. I mean we were meeting willingly and under good/bad terms for many months and exchanging emails texts in the thousands. Yeah, much of it was not particularly pleasant, as we negotiated boundaries etc, but I dont think she ever felt threatened and I dont remember behaving in an especially ungentlemanly manner (undignified, for sure) and in fact most of the limerence probably led me to lavish kindness. I feel a bit ripped off because she knew I would freak out if she blocked me…and I did…and then she started using terms like harrassment. Yes, I called her countless times yesterday. She was pissed off because she saw I was trying to go it alone and hence probably cut the sugar daddy bıt, and not of much use to her. So, yeah, today is coming to terms with what that all means. Not a very pretty picture, not consoling, and it represented a very bad break when, as early as last Thursday, I thought we were making a good beak and I could leave with dignity. I have to say, I am annoyed about yesterday. It seemed unnecessary show of force. Attacking flies with sledgehammers kind of sh..
I think I need to medicate heavily because this is just going round and round. A path to long term, true recovery just seems blocked at the moment. I want to get to that point as well, but everything is jammed right now, all pathways, even the narrow and difficult, are inaccessible in this mindset. I will go the way of meds and see if I can get relief and, hopefully, to a place where I can benefit from the wisdom of Dr. L and the many great people on this site, who have probably blunted the sharpest part of the pain.
Again, with sincerity and humility, I thank you for being here during my hour of need. I promise to pay it back and be a port in the storm to my fellow human beings in the future, when I have the strength and wherewithal to be of use
Ok, I don’t know what your circumstances are but be really careful. The number of calls you made may not show up on her phone bill since she blocked you but they’ll show up on yours. You’d like to believe your LO will do the right thing but you can’t rely on it. Let’s see, you slipped your leash and you cut her off financially. Yeah, sounds like more than enough reason to extract vengeance.
As for self-medicating, there’s a lot to be said for “Better living through chemistry” but it can backfire on you, big time.
When I was in a similar place in the summer of 1987, I started making mistakes at work. I was refueling a nuclear reactor. My boss pulled me aside. He’d gone through an ugly divorce so he was very sympathetic but he told me I had to get it together before I did something that would tank my career. He pulled me off the project and told me to take 2 weeks off and do something.
[Queue up “The Best of Scharnhorst”]
That something was to take a cruise to Mexico and spend $27,000 on a Nissan 300ZX Turbo. It was a gorgeous car. [My wife cried when we sold it and bought a Taurus because she was pregnant] When LO #2 came back for her final drive-by, I picked her up in it. She asked, “What’s this?”
“The down payment on what would have been our house.”
Cruise to Mexico (including airfare): $1500
Nissan 300ZX Turbo: $27,000
Look on LO’s face: Priceless
[We return to our regular programming]
It helped. But, I could get away with rubbing my LO’s nose in it. You can’t.
It’s not that you can’t get out of this but the first step is to want to get out of this. Once you’re out, you can figure out how you got there.
@Scharnhorst –
“The down payment on what would have been our house.”
I think you won that one, buddy!
Steve, I am actually a bit cautious with self medication and alcohol and the likes. I would first talk to a professional and if they prescribe you something, take that. As Sharnhorst says, it can backfire big time. It numbs you, but that wears off and you need more snd more to get to the same level of numbness. It’s a slippery slope (just like limerence) so be extremely careful please.
I am not sure I followed your full story here and the beginnings with LO, but are you single or do you have an SO or family?
I have So and child from first marriage. Ongoing problems with SO but in theory we hope to get past it, but 1st things 1st. I guess what is hardest today are intrusive thoughts. I feel if l can get off the back foot there, l would have a fighting chance. But dealing with them is incredibly draining. I really do not want to think of her. I am sure she is not worth it. But l think of her, l talk to her, she gets final say on how l view myself. Crazy crazy crazy. If l went out and got drunk tonight but stashed phone away safely, would it be ok? I would even welcome an epic hangover that leaves me in bed all day. I’m also still fighting urge to send her msg apologizing 4 my madness yesterday, telling her l accept, will not bother her, will be her friend in need and all that. I wish l were in mountains without phone or anything else.
Well, if you were single, I’d tell you that there are better people out there. If you are in a committed relationship, that sentence makes no sense, so I’d say work on the underlying issues and figure out if that relationship is worth fighting for.
Steve, I know it is hard, but leave LO alone. The urge to call, text and explain will stay a very long time. It will fade but it may never fully go away. Nothing good comes from contacting LO at this point. Leaving your phone at home won’t help much, as you will have it back in your hands sooner or later.
There’s no way to avoid the storm in your head but to ride it out. And you are right, if you are going through hell, keep going.
Steve – just to echo Sarah’s thoughts, you HAVE to leave LO alone from here. You need to delete all her contact details and wipe her from your life to stop yourself from contacting her. You could sink even lower if you send a message like that and get yourself in real trouble. If you were attempting to recover from alcoholism, would you leave a load of vodka in the house or pour it down the drain? You have to pour her down the drain and never go back.
Steve, I like that idea of paying it forward. That’s what I am trying to do. The LwL community was here for me in my darkest hours….pitch black hours…and I am ever so grateful. Trust me…if you find the strength to soldier on through the gloom little rays of sun WILL eventually come through and that person you used to be and used to like WILL return, slowly and carefully…..and it’s all so worth the struggle. Don’t be consumed by rancor or vitriol to ANYONE, not LO, not SO, just be kind to them and/or their memory (after you use anger with LO to get through the worst of it and maintain NC) and most especially be kind to yourself. I think self love and self esteem get incinerated in the fires of limerence and it’s our job to recover them. And it sure feels good when we do.
Thank you Vincent
I believe every word you say. I’m just not going to contact her today.
I read this poem many years ago and remember thinking it a bit extreme. Seems now to have understated it…
Neutral Tones
BY THOMAS HARDY
We stood by a pond that winter day,
And the sun was white, as though chidden of God,
And a few leaves lay on the starving sod;
– They had fallen from an ash, and were gray.
Your eyes on me were as eyes that rove
Over tedious riddles of years ago;
And some words played between us to and fro
On which lost the more by our love.
The smile on your mouth was the deadest thing
Alive enough to have strength to die;
And a grin of bitterness swept thereby
Like an ominous bird a-wing….
Since then, keen lessons that love deceives,
And wrings with wrong, have shaped to me
Your face, and the God curst sun, and a tree,
And a pond edged with grayish leaves.
Sharnhorst mentioned something above about rubbing an LOs nose in it..a kind of schadenfreude and l found it interesting. Is that even possible? I mean, they do seem to hold all the cards and one unkind word can send us reeling. Is it a healthy emotion to want to do that? Of course it is totally natural and a person would be lying if they said those thoughts never occurred. I would like to do that some day and there are ways l could…but oh my, how prone to backfiring. Imagine my big ploy to evoke her ire resulted in her sniggering. That actually made me laugh. I once “mis-sent’ her an email detailing a good new piece of business l was involved with (when we were on the outs). It definitely pissed her off, but in the end l don’t think l gained much from it other than the momentary satisfaction that l could annoy her. Pretty sick, it seems. But pretty human
They only hold the cards we give them.
I was never a passive victim. As the therapist put it, “You don’t take being demeaned well.” She said at the end, LO #2 knocked on the door and I “gave it to her with both barrels.” At that point, I didn’t care.
But, again, I could get away with it. We had no professional or social nexus and she had nothing on me.
If her FB friend request wasn’t an accident and she was watching me, she knows my status & what I think of her. She’d have to be an idiot to ever try it again.
You don’t have that luxury.
I have no luxury at all. It is very Spartan. I didnt quite catch what you meant by ‘she knows my status and what I think of her’
If she is your LO, presumably you think love about her and probably she knows it? But I guess by saying LO2, it means you are long over her, right?
Haha…gave it to her with both barrels…I liked that ( :
I have to admit I would be highly flattered if my LO was watching me in any way. She kinda does watch me, but it’s more how you would watch irregularities in how your neighbor parks his car.
Haha…gave it to her with both barrels…I liked that ( :
I launched a frontal assault with two twigs and she drop-kicked me to the head, grabbed the twigs and made me eat them. Then she made me apologize for scratching one of her nails
It’s really important to not give in to resentment, Steve. You’ll get trapped in a cycle of negative rumination and blaming LO for everything. You want to aim for standing up straight, looking to the sun, and walking away with dignity – not getting more and more bitter about she did this/she said that/she wasn’t sufficiently grateful for my largesse. Drinking or medicating yourself into insensibility probably won’t help, either.
Looked at objectively: you are in a long-term relationship, you shouldn’t have been pursuing your LO, and you can’t really expect to set the terms of how she communicates with you now it’s gone sour.
Take some time to lick your wounds and recuperate, but make sure your executive brain has confiscated the metaphorical keys to the car. You don’t want to end up wrapped around a lamp post.
Thank you Dr. L. I knew intuitively that resentment is poisoned chalice. Does not even feel right. I often noticed that in the past, in non-limerent situations. I think I am just honestly horrified by the hard work that lies ahead. For something that gave so little pleasure, a great deal of pain, consumed 7+ months of my life and now I may be facing an additional sentence of unknown duration? Yep, that just psyches me out. It all seems so unnecessary and arbitrary. Then I think, maybe I should just keep my head down or something worse will come about.
It sure takes the bubbliness we all seek out of life right off the table.
Thank you again.
BTW, I have really started to engage my executive brain in a self-conscious way. That is totally mind blowing and new to me and has led to some really funny visualizations. There’s me, the out of control, emotional CEO and the cowering board of directors. We all want the same thing. The board feels neglected and mis/under-used, but the CEO can no longer hide the cracks of poor leadership and is gradually trying to work in tandem with the board. These reveries are one of the better parts of my day and I try to carry on the role play for as long as I can. Tonight, the board has ordered in pizza- expecting a late night-and nervously watch on as a saturnine, but ever-more acquiescent CEO paces in the adjacent room, fearful of his hatching increasingly desperate and wildly unrealistic plans to bring the company back to profitability or at least hide the losses under the rug as long as possible. But they are both one, the same team. The only way they can survive is through accommodation and cooperation. Amen.
I think it’s less about ‘schadenfreude’ and more about showing LO that LO doesn’t hold the cards anymore, that you are over LO, and in a sense to keep your head up high.
You can achieve the same thing by ignoring LO and not contact her. Because at this point she probably expects (or even fears) you reaching out. The best you can do is cease all contact and ‘prove’ to her that you don’t need her (even though you are bluffing) and that she doesn’t have the upper hand.
@Sarah,
that reminded me about a prior post here, maybe it was “LOs who won’t let go.” Time and again, I have resolved to just distance myself from her and attempt staged withdrawal. We work very closely together so this is practically impossible, almost laughable, but I try nevertheless. Problem is, every time I do, I know LO can sense it immediately. It never lasts longer than a day. She then tries to pull me back it seems. And it always works. And when I say I know she can sense it, I KNOW she does. The tension between us is palpable. It’s like neither of us are comfortable with space between us. Maybe she just enjoys my friendship but I always interpret it as something else, probably because I assume (wrongly) she knows why I am being distant (i.e., I am besotted and need to protect myself). If she truly knew that, then she wouldn’t try to pull me back. I suppose the only way to cure that is to tell her: “I am being distant on purpose. It is to protect myself from feelings for you. I’m not mad at you. In fact, you already know I like you and have struggled with feelings for you. I just have to be this way for my own emotional health.”
How would that go over, do you think?
Wow, yeah, that is brutal. I get the same feeling. LO does not want me out of her life, but for self-serving reasons, not about my happiness. Working closely together is a kind of curse…I shared a day job and private business with LO that required almost constant contact. I really feel for you. She must have reasons for wanting to keep you close? I am pretty devious but realistic (usually). She either wants to keep you as a back up plan OR she is deriving some benefit from the relationship (what that might be is entirely speculative on my part) OR she is a bit twisted, probably doesnt give a damn about your feelings, but enjoys having someone enraptured with her. I give them all about equal chances. I guess the first one is hopeful, but could lead you down the garden path and leave you totally distraught if she moves on with someone else, so ironically, though hopeful, also the most dangerous. The third might be best for you cuz if/when it crystalizes, in theory it should give you reason to drop her like a hot potato.
OR the 4th possibility…I am totally nuts and you shouldnt listen to a thing I say after a half bottle of vodka and one of the most vicious limerent comedowns/withdrawals to ever ht me anyway.
Good luck man, whatever way it works out. Just sucks you work closely with her. That is a very limerent type of paradox; typical a-hole move of parasitic limerence.
She pulls you back in, B, but just enough to keep her safe distance.
I understand where you are coming from, telling her the reason why you need distance. How would that go? Well, it could go either way, really. She could understand and accept it, or the complete opposite, not understanding the concept of limerence, thinking that you are a Bit of a weirdo Not being able to control your emotions. How much vulnerability are you willing to show her? She’ll have that information on and over you also in the future, which could be awkward if LO ever tells a common colleague of yours.
“She pulls you back in, B, but just enough to keep her safe distance.”
Exactly @sarah. I used to get so frustrated by this push-pull, but now I can see it, even predict it. The LO is most likely attracted at some level, enjoys the attention but because we’re unavailable, they don’t want to get hurt by going too far. So they try to strike a balance, and you get these hot ‘n’ cold spells.
So if we disappear for a while they come back looking, when they’ve had enough attention or feel its going too far they are the ones to back off.
With LO it would drive me crazy as it all just meant so much to me at the time. She’d send me a WhatsApp, I’d reply, and then she’d leave the message unread, before replying the next day. Or she’d change her profile pic mid conversation, I’m sure just to mess with my head. It dorve me nuts, and I just couldn’t understand what game she was playing.
With this new girl at work, I can see her doing the same sort of thing. Last week she liked some of my social media posts from a month ago and replied to an email from ages ago too (as well as messaging me on social media and at work). This week I sent her some really interesting info and she’s left the messages unread. I knew she would do it, as I’ve watched the pattern with her before. Hot when I was cold, cold when I warm up.
The question is whether you enjoy this push-pull or not. With LO I didn’t, as it all meant too much to me at the time. With the new girl I’m more just intrigued at the behavior and can take or leave it. It will all end at some point I’m sure, probably when she finds someone else.
I’m sorry @Sarah but LOs rarely care about any of it. Our high road is their relief. The NC is for us, not for them. We’re just a blip on their radar.
No, I think I disagree. By showing an unexpected behavior towards LO, LO will wonder why and will react some way.
Now if you have been limerent for a “normal human being”, an LO that doesn’t understand limerence but genuinely likes/appreciates the attention (Who is not flattered if you get some special ‘innocent’ attention), LO will do something to get a familiar reaction again.
In the case of an LO knowing about your limerence and even manipulating you, withdrawal and NC will piss them off, as they will sense that their manipulation doesn’t work anymore.
So either way, they care, but most likely for the reasons we want them to.
*most likely NOT for the reasons we want them to
Thank you Sarah. Your ideas are very balanced. I know. I want to go NC. The concept is so new to me, had to look up what it meant only a week or two ago. And yes it has been pretty scary to me. I really am. I have been in such close contact with this person for 7 months. We fight and make up as if we are a real couple, but lately it has come to a crisis point…she is more disturbed I guess, and I am more and more depressed. The really crazy thing is that when we are together, we actually seem pretty cool with each other, are able to take a time out and laugh at ourselves a bit, and do have pretty unique perspectives on one another. But its a dark world when I am alone and not with her. To be honest, the past 2 weeks were when I knew that something had to be done or that my sanity would be jeopardized. I think before that I knew I was playing a very dangerous game and the pain was always a constant, but somehow I felt I would escape without serious harm. Recently, that has not been the case. I am very concerned about it. I know NC is my only hope. The compromises I would have to make to sneak back into her life would be too great and then the emotional investment even greater, leading to a greater threat in the end. So, yes, I am now fully aware that I am on the precipice. And I will have to see her regularly in September, may be partnered up with her, assigned projects together, etc. I read a long time ago in psych textbook about integrity vs despair as a final stage of our development and I do see this as an existential struggle. If I fail, I guess I will carry that with me forever. The whole NC thing just came at me awfully quick, but there is no time to lose.
How long has your LO experience been? Why do you think it occurred? Do you wish it never had? Do you feel that toiling away at it is the only solution?
It is very hard to get the range of perspectives from friends that you are able to get online.
I think the one thing that I still struggle with is that limerence is almost always unwanted and happens quite involuntarily.
Take care
“Sharnhorst mentioned something above about rubbing an LOs nose in it..a kind of schadenfreude and l found it interesting. Is that even possible? ”
You have an SO, an ex-wife and a child. Don’t you have more important people to think about?
You aren’t single. She isn’t or is no longer interested. You state that you are stalking her. Drop it. Be grateful that she deleted and blocked you because your self-control is teetering on non-existent.
Master yourself.
The stalking was not actual, thank god. But it easily could have been. I dont see why I should think much of my ex-wife. Child, definitely. SO, yes I try.
Self control? Yep, it is a major problem, MAJOR. But I thought that was the whole idea? One of the main features of limerence is intrusive thoughts, so is not everyone here de facto suffering from serious self control issues, presumably yourself included? I mean, if we were in control, this kind of thinking could be pretty easily dealt with, could it not? Sorry if that sounds kind of snarky, but it has been a helluva 2 weeks and Im pretty new at all this and very raw, so maybe Im not sharp on protocols.
We’re all just trying to help you, really. Yes, self control is not easily attainable and that’s why I became a borderline alcoholic lately, trying to deal with the urges to break NC (I don’t recommend this way of coping and I am working on cutting it down to less and less of drinking each night… but then the setbacks occur so randomly.. for me it could be anything from hearing LO’s name (unfortunately, he’s got one of those vanilla biblical names 5% of men born in the late 70s has, lol), to hearing a song, etc. THE FUCKING TRIGGERS are everywhere. So we do get it. The OCD is on for the ride with you. Make friends with it asap. 😉
An ex-wife who shares custody of q child is someone to consider. If you carry on in this ridiculous manner don’t be surprised if she gets wind of it.
No idea the age of your kid, but if you act out you may find yourself spending less time with the child.
Hm.. I think once we go NC, and even before, if I speak for myself, we show an incredible amount of self control.
I have absolutely no control over my thoughts, but I do have control over my actions, being a limerent probably more than others, kicking an addiction alone, grief and suffer like a maniac, still working, meanwhile raise kids and function. And be determined to get better..
Bravo to us.
Instead of analysing the behaviour of my LO, I now imagine the end result. What would it be like to be in an actual day-to-day relationship with this person. E.g. if the desired pair-bonding did take place, what would it look like?
Honestly, my LO was an exciting fantasy, but a deathly dull potential partner. I think this realisation, along with NC, ultimately made it easier to let go. What if, by some miracle, all us limerents get exactly what we want in life, and learn that it isn’t enough, after all? A committed relationship with LO might turn out boring and full of struggle and difficulty, same as any other committed relationship.
If the evolutionary purpose of limerence is pair-bonding, how desirable would a pair bond with this person be, once the glorious feelings have faded forever?
@AndrewClarke
When I first met my ex LO at a party he talked to me endlessly about his company and my eyes glazed over as I was thinking…this guy is so cute and has some inexplicable magnetism but I cannot get over how boring this conversation is.”. Somehow we later began this long/intense and bizarre limerent /LO relationship. We have so few common interests and even though we ended up spending lots of time together over the years I just was amazed at how fun the most mundane things we did together actually were! Going shopping, going to the dry cleaners, etc…it was all SO EXCITING! Now I realize it was the limerence saturating every moment together and once that glimmer dried out (as it invariably would have if we ever officially got together) I do think I would have been painfully bored by him. Thank goodness he is no longer an option. Honestly this is what I keep telling myself but there is still a little part of me that doesn’t believe what I write. Still have some work to do….
Same for me, I thought LO is the most exciting thing and the most mundane things became fun. But I agree thinking through the end game, I think I would actually be bored with LO, we are too different and like different things. And this fantasy bubble would burst quickly. Not to mention some personality traits that I would really struggle with.
That’s what happened to me with LO1. Since we still talk from time to time, now that the limerence fog has dissipated I realize how few things we have in common. Had we actually started dating, we’d be trapped in loveless couple intertia or broke up completely by now.
This is also what I tell myself in regards to my current LO. She reminds me LO1 in some ways, so I keep thinking that a hypothetical relationship between us wouldn’t work out. Of course, since we didn’t have a chance to know each other very well, it’s harder to make shut up my stupid limerent brain telling me that she was the perfect woman for me…
I’m on between 6am and 7am when l do my running. I’m also mostly ok when sleeping. So total 7 out of 24 hours lm ok. That’s me getting positive. Thank you for all your advice, even the ones that sound tough. I’m definitely in a receptive stage, so l do weigh it all up, even if it chafes. Day 2 NC.
and Im ok between 7 and 8 when I hold ‘board’ meeting. Gees, that is a third of my life. That is sthing I can begin to live with. Just the intrusive thoughts are so painful and come so randomly.
Ok, and if I really squeeze, I can get another hour from posting…9 hrs when I am not in LO vice!!!!
I will post less as this progresses and hopefully devote time to helping others. It just has been very useful therapy at this point.
Man, I’ve been reading your posts through here telling your story and although I don’t think I have any useful advice to give, I’d like to offer at least some words of encouragement. Yours it’s a very shitty place to be right now, but you’ll recover, if you keep going like you’re doing right now.
Is it any shittier than others? I was hoping it was just garden variety limerent shittiness. I gotta say, I was going along ok today, pretty focussed on my daily stuff and then I see she unblocked me…really threw me off. Man, it is hard to get people some day. Monday she accused me of harrassment…
Thank you for your encouragement…if there is ever anything you want to talk about…
Thank you Benjamin. You seem like a really cool guy. If you ever find yourself in Istanbul, dinner is on me.
I noticed she unblocked me on whatsapp…what a mind-f&%+. I really need to get myself together. I have to stop guessing her intentions. I JUST WANT OUT: How the hell could she even unblock me after the other day…? Just makes no sense at all.
Block her. This is your chance to do what you said you wanted to do in the first place.
I am seriously thinking bout it. I am gonna send it to the board to see what they say. I dont trust emotional man anymore. Hes a grovelling wimp
sorry milky way…I blocked her but I knowingly left the back door open. Of course I got burgled again.
Maybe this is it? maybe this will be as good as it ever gets and I should quit while I am ahead, relatively speaking. I have agreat excuse; she broke my heart the other day and I should not forgive. I think it is a good narrative for me. Gonna try and make it stick.
Exactly. It’s an excelent window of opportunity to start seriously on your NC. “I acted like a dumbass the other day and I don’t want to end up with a restraining order, so I’m going to refrain from contacting her anymore” sounds as a good phrase to keep into your mind to help you with the resolve of the NC.
If she tries to contact you, ignore her. If she insists, block her. Better yet, do as Milky Way says and block her now. That way, the shame of looking weak-willed if you unblock her will keep you from trying to initiate contact.
Clip of the Day: “Star Wars”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OjG59xXkko
“I can hold it!”
Quitting while you’re ahead would be the smart move.
Otherwise, this could be you.
Im giving online class and this is doing my head in. I was the one who started NC last week and we both seemed ok with it, but then I was punished etc. I have never blocked her – ok maybe once or twice – that is more her weapon. I am fully on board with NC; there just is no other way. I will decide after my classes. I definitely want to avoid another emotional blow out, last one left me totally gutted.
The sooner you stop thinking about what LO is thinking, the faster you are on your route to recovery.
Pretend LO is a white page, there is nothing there, nothing to read, no sign, no symbol, just a blank page.
I want that blank page, with all my heart and intellect. I know I will get there, just some rebel holdouts blocking my progress. I will get there. I understand I should not care what she thinks.
It’ll take a while for the heart to follow what the mind knows is good for you…
Sarah, it seems you really have your feet on the ground and a solid understanding. How did you get there and how long did it take? Can you suggest any specific hacks? Although I have failed so far, I am completely pro NC, just waiting for the heart to follow what it knows to be good.
It took a good year, and I had to go through various stages to reach acceptance that there will never be an LO and I under any circumstances. The ‘what if this was different’, ‘what if that barrier changes (even like 10 years from now)’ or even the thought of ‘If we had met under different circumstances, we would be happily ever after…’ the truth I had to accept is: no we wouldn’t be… ever.
A few realizations and quotes helped me to get there:
– good people don’t walk away from good relationships. The fact that this is so complicated already shows you this is not working out or even toxic.
– the perfect image of LO is created by my brain. LO is a fantasy of me and says more about me than about LO – LO is not perfect. “The admirer projects onto another person idealized attributes the admirer highly values and wants to be associated with. Then she or he attaches strong positive feelings to the perfectly wonderful image that has been created.”
– being friends with LO doesn’t work, because I’ll always want more. My needs (not feeling this limerence pain) is more important than LO’s (if LO wants to be friends and cares about me as a friend) I’m allowed to be that selfish and hurting LO’s feelings by going NC is ok, I do not need to feel guilty about it and don’t need to explain.
– what LO does and thinks should not interest me – it is irrelevant to my happiness
– if I really truly loved LO, I would want LO to be happy, with whomever it makes LO happy. Limerence is selfish, everything is about me.
– I have real things in my life to think about and put efforts in, my SO, my kids and my friends, my career and my studies. LO distracts me from all of that.
What I did was writing down my thoughts whenever I thought about LO. I needed to get it out of my head. I dated them, sometimes read through them. You’ll notice how your perspective changes.
I went through the classic stages of grief over months. Eventually, I just got sooo angry at LO most of the time, but I was also sad, I bargained in my head, I went back and forth between the stages, until slowly, it started to fade.
Most important breakthrough I would say is the realization that only with NC or extreme LC I can get passed this. LO needs to be out of my life. There is no room for LO. He lives his life, and I live mine. And the less I know about his, the better.
Maybe just stop with the whole power struggle blocking thing. It keeps the poison flowing.
Blocking, checking,unblocking hoping she noticed etc.
You don’t have to block to never reach out again.
Thank you, all of you. For today, I am just going to leave it. I have never been a big blocker. Also, I tied one on last night, so my nerves are already jangled. I will make decision on it tomorrow. The important thing is today I continue NC…that is enough on my plate, esp with this twist.
Where is chocolate bar? I’m wasted so it hardlymatters ( : I swam to Kalkan beach club…1k l guess. I
I just want to get back to Istanbul and focus on my recovery. Holiday was a zero. Zero sum game.
I keep my NC. and l question every second how l got here…
The whole darn thing is wrong. I just want to curse. Anyway hope Paris is good…l mean if that is not a city for limerents, what is? I hope you pull through soon. Seems an unecessary burden to be under, for you
Anyway Mia..take care.
I’m with Mia on this one! The blocking is silly AF! We’re grown ass people. Lost in our tragically painfully limerance but this is not an excuse to not save our pride. RADICAL INDIFFERENCE, MY FRIENDS! Please do so! Fake it if you must but to appear indifferent is gold!
I agree, but why does ‘appearing’ indifferent even matter? Im just curious and definitely not trying to pick apart your post. Is it gold because it boosts back your self esteem?
I blocked her. Day 2 NC continues. I remembered how much she hurt me in order to school me. It was unnecessary, flies with sledgehammers kinda stuff. Now let’s revert to resolve.
I wish you all well and want you to know l am here for you. I cannot offer more than that.
If she fires off an email tonight, l will not answer..it’s the least l can do to show my appreciation to you.
I think a major obstacle to overcoming limerence is limerence tricks one’s brain into thinking everything is related somehow to LO – books, music, trees, rocks, random conversations, etc. It truly is monomania.
Of course, the world and all its wonders existed before LO and will exist after LO has moved away or moved on. It’s really a very unkind trick Mother Nature plays on our brains, situating LO as the centre of the universe and the source of all meaning.
Things did not go according to plan, at all. She called while I was out ‘celebrating’ (how absurd…but I had best day for weeks, so I felt some relief). Anyway, long story short, we had very unkind words, then I backtracked, tried to re-set (as if), then it ended with the typical blocking etc. The only plus is I am not as wrecked as I expected…maybe the hangover is taking some of the edge off. I never thought I would welcome a hangover.
Yes, Andrew, this positioning of LO at center of universe has to be one of the crueller facets of limerence, a real dirty trick.
Anxious soul, I have nothing else to do but to fake indifference for a while. I hope it gains some traction. I mean, I cant very well drink every night, though I did feel darn good for a few hours I know the trajectory of continuing that.
Im just gonna try and get thru the next few days. I will welcome the fact that I will be busy when I get back to Istanbul…and I am moving to a new house, so maybe that will be a diversion or a shot at anew start. I had things positioned so well yesterday but I squandered the opportunity that presented itself.
I got some prozac (it is OTC here). When I get back, I will go to therapist and start the steps to limerence program.
I feel very fragile, dont know if its the alcohol, the general sadness from past few days, the prozac, or what.
and of course, very angry at myself for losing the initiative once again. How many times will I wish I could re-take the last 24 hrs? The common thread – I contact her – bad things happen. Love wrings with wrong…
Its temting to drink to get some relief for a few hours, but alcohol makes you even more fragile the next day, pls be very moderate with it!
Randomly taking prozac isnt a wise idea probably since you have to build up a level and you can feel even more missarable and out of balance for the first weeks.
Pls go take care of yourself, instead of numbing.
Let the pain and grief be there, cry and cry some more take the pain, breath the cravings away.
Find a therapist, let him or her look at the proper medication, and be kind to your body, it has suffered enough . Compassion is one of the biggest gift you can give yourself in limerence. Be soft and kind to yourself and your inner child. He is very very hurt. You would not recomend getting waisted to a child, be kind and understanding to it.
Yes, thx Mia, I know. Alcohol will not be a regular feature in my recovery. Im even regretting starting the prozac, which takes a few weeks…irony is if I could get through 2 weeks, I wouldnt need it.
I am afraid to even go there today – to examine my thoughts – it feels like I am on the edge of volcano. Im just gonna try to lie low today and avoid any upset.
Do not be too upset with yourself, limerence is not a rathional thing, it goes back to our survivour modus. Clearly your nerve system thinks having contact with LO is good, could be attachment issues, its def. addiction. And the body does what it does. Its diffucult to go against our nerve system screaming : i have to connect with this person otherwise i will die! Like Alan Roubarge stated, you mistake the need for some feelings, for the need for LO, the wires got tangled up and now your mental PC programm cant shut down.
Be gentle with yourself, celebrate every day of NC. Its hard! You have to fugure out and experiment with ways to sooth yourself in the hardest moments, ( not with drugs 😀 ) but by talking gently to your inner child, or go to a “safe” place in your memory.
Seems to me limerence is purest form of insanity. And the LO knows it, which makes it even worse. I think there may be connection between dementia and limerence. Many of my family members had dementia and my father was a limerent though we never discussed. I noticed he got fixated on ppl, smothered them with kindness, then would go through times of unavailability and deep despondency. I used to feel sorry for him. I knew something was up cuz he also was generally characterized by his love of a good laugh.
Of all the things I have lost, I miss laughter the most, esp the ability to laugh at myself.
Feel like Im in trenches in WW1 on a quiet day, stacking the body bags, mulling over the catastrophic losses, unpacking more body bags in expectation of more of the same. Too beaten up to even ask the questions, ‘is it worth it?’ and ‘Can I go on’? No prospects of glory, shredded hopes, daydreams even just mockeries. No end in sight to this brutal and senseless conflict in my blank, vanishingly small corner of the universe.
All you have to do today is just breath. And this day will pass. One day in the near future you will get some excitement that you are goung to work on yourself, to get better, to grow to see new sides of yourself. But not today today is just shit.
I am afraid you are right about today. In the end, it is the relapses that sap your strength and call into question your resolve, not to mention making a mockery of the effort. I wish it could just be packaged in one mega shot, not doled out daily like this, always just enough to keep you perfectly miserable.
I read this article months ago. It is really wonderful and the style reminds me exactly of Dr. L. How do some people just manage so perfectly to describe complex emotions so effortlessly and with such genuineness and compassion. It is a real gift. https://psychcentral.com/blog/how-to-let-go-of-letting-go/
As odd as it may sound – its incredibly fragile – but I do feel a space, however small it may be. I think I have been focussing on my interactions with LO, my schemes, my plans. All this attention to the blocking/unblocking and the to and fro with LO distracted me from creating that space where I could breath. So right now, along with NC, I am going to try to enlargen that space, solidify it.
Nt sure if its early effect of prozac, or just limerence’s idea of a day off (sure to be re-paid double) – but I survived the day with zero weepiness and a pretty sharp reduction in intrusive thinking. My feeling is my psyche was so fragile today, that thoughts thoughts were just off-limits as they might have caused an all systems failure. Whatever the reason, although still a highly dysfunctional day by normal people’s standards, it was a better day than many ones in recent past. Tomorrow I will wake up early, do my run, have a board meeting and start mentally preparing myself for the hard work ahead. A big part of me has been resisting it, thinking it was unfair and the like, and looking for shortcuts. Im slowly coming around to the idea – based on much of what I have read here – that there will be no shortcut and that this will be a long battle, but there might be some good that will come out of it. Thats a nice thought to end the day on. Day 1 NC almost over.
Steve, I see a green shoot of recovery breaking through the rock. Keep watering it and protect it from the virulent limerent thoughts and actions which could kill it.
Nurture it and watch it grow! One day it will be a beautiful strong tree, able to withstand future storms, droughts, and any variety of other attacks. It will bring you shade and solace….and be a soul healer vs a limerent styled soul destroyer.
Jaideux, thank you very much. I thought it might be too, but l have learned to be cautious. I think l will look back on it being a green shoot moment IF l can fortify it and not have any relapses during this critical phase.
I decided a few things:
NC highest priority
Stop being sugar daddy also very high priority.
Engage daily with my executive brain in a very self-conscious way.
That part is kinda fun…l represent members of this forum as famous actors/actresses and try to internalize their advice. People here have a lot of wisdom. I’m looking forward to the next phase, which will be about study, research and implementation.
I’m not going to take this lying down anymore. The existential threat it poses is very real. Terminate, with extreme prejudice (line from “apocalypse now”)
Thank you again Jaideux.
Wauw, what a difference from the desperate, lost person less than a week ago.
You indeed hit your personal rock bottem enough to say stop! And now you are slowly making your plans to recover. Note the recovery is not a straight line up, its very rocky, very much up and down but overall, (overview on weeks not days! ) up.
I keep track on my progress by writing them down, becuase sometimes it can be so hard and its temting to think,” I give up, there is no progress anyway, I still want LO as much as I did 2 months ago”, maybe thats true but simultaneously there is progress on other parts of your life. And dont forget, its okay to be sad, its okay to feel, its okay to grief, its also okay to be gratefull and happy again.
Thank you Mia. You are so supportive and kind. I am always here to listen as well. I know I have been dominating this forum for the past week, but I do feel I am emerging from sthing. Yes, even just a few days ago I felt completely lost and shattered; a feeling which was ever-present for months and months. I think some things have changed. For once I have a battle plan. And, for once, I am convinced that I need to urgently get on recovery path. Those are the big differences. Yeah, mood is all over place and I know I will again experience the weepiness, desperation and intense longing for LO. But at least I have glued a few twigs together and can put up a more decent resistance.
Good luck Mia and I hope you are not in such a bad place that you cannot enjoy Paris…
Im feeling quite good today. The only thing is painful intrusive thoughts sometimes cut through me with force. It doesnt seem I have much of a defence against that yet. I hope in time that gets better because I feel that it keeps me from lifting off. Its like I am afraid of becoming too high, as those intrusive thoughts have the ability to send me low again. Thinking of LO, living her life, doing mundane things or not mundane, like dating, hanging out with friends, on her holiday. Yeah, those are still pretty raw images that haunt me.
I gave up on trying to manage the intrusive thoughts weeks ago, I tried everything, didnt help, okay I just let them be, fighting against them doesnt help me it only makes me angry with myself and thats the last thing I need .
I let them flow. Sometimes I shake my head and say someting like : okay enough with the fantasy, now I focus on work. But overall I let them be there, I have no other option, there is no switch to turn them off. Meanwhile I keep NC and build up other parts in my life.
Steve, I have to agree with everything Mia is saying. It DOES get better, even if some of the improvement is just our own minds getting better at managing the limerence. I was almost totally unproductive for maybe three months, but I am out of that phase now. It still hurts, and I still think about my LO all the time, but I can compartmentalize much better now and focus on other things when I really need to. You will get there.
I also believe in embracing the limerent thoughts at times because you just aren’t going to be able to completely push them out of your mind. But if you keep on reminding yourself it’s all just a fantasy and how much you stand to lose, your limerent brain will start to get the message.
Another thing I agree with Mia on is the fact that the recovery isn’t linear. You will hit bumps in the road on your journey to recovery. Although I have been getting better lately, I think I have regressed a bit over the last three weeks or so. Part of that might be because I may have seen my LO as I detoured past her house one night due to a major accident that blocked the major street near her house. She definitely saw me as she was walking her dog, but I don’t know if she recognized me.
Just last night, I had not one but two dreams of my LO. One was strange because my wife and I were in her neighbourhood and we ended up hanging out with her, and she even cooked a meal for my wife for some strange reason. In the second one, I was at a store where I picked up a page of a newspaper with a full page advertisement with her picture highlighting her entrepreneurial spirit, as well as another random stranger’s profile (I am not aware of any business ventures my LO may or may not be involved in). When I looked up from reading the newspaper ad, she was there right in front of me, rummaging through discount merchandise at the table where I was (presumably to buy and resell). For some reason, I didn’t say anything to her. Again, it was all very weird. I have no idea what these dreams mean, but she is definitely on my mind.
In any case, it will get better, but it takes time and you will regress at times. Sometimes being able to laugh helps, but I also agree with Dr. L’s advice that purposeful living and keeping busy is one of the best strategies for combating limerence. Good luck!
Thank you vicarious.i think it is early for me to engage in Limerent thoughts. I went pretty far down that road. Maybe after some time.
Recovery not linear? Yeah for sure. I thought l was in recovery in feb/March and found myself back in deepest hole again I past weeks.
I am sorry you saw your LO and it was upsetting. But it could be worse. You could work with her or be her neighbor. It would be nice if they just disappeared altogether ( :
Hang tough!! It is a real struggle…btw did you disclose your feelings to LO?
@ Steve: It was actually nice possibly seeing my LO (although I am not sure if it was actually her, it did look like her, she was walking a dog that looked like her dog (she had shown me pictures of him) and she was across the street from her house). I hadn’t seen my LO in about eight months since the night I met her. She definitely saw and looked at me when she heard me playing my music in the car (the windows were down and I was playing the type of music I told her I’m into). Still, I believe it got me thinking about her even more than normal. My wife and I also had a really bad patch there a few weeks ago, so that may have got me thinking more about my LO again too.
I only partially disclosed my feelings to my LO when I felt that I needed to provide an explanation as to why I was unfriending her on Facebook (it was nothing personal AT ALL because she is such a sweetheart and I think really highly of her). I told her my wife was jealous, but she wanted a better explanation as to why my wife was so jealous. My LO thought I was talking shit about her, but nothing could be further from the truth. I then explained to her that I told my wife I would be interested in my LO if I were single. She was totally surprised I would tell my wife that, but she seemed really cool about it in the end. My LO wasn’t freaked out about me admitting that (although she did seem sympathetic towards my wife). The problem is she was totally into my brother in-law. I was just trying to get him to go for it by praising up my LO so much to him and the family (he is the kind who always asks the family for advice and I was providing my two cents’ worth). I knew she was totally off limits to me (and probably at least a bit out of my league), but I figured that at least someone relatively close to me could be with her and I could have her in my life in some capacity. I also just wanted the two of them to be happy together. But it wasn’t to be. In the end, he just isn’t that into her and there is a long distance involved (my LO is local to me). I find myself feeling really bitter about it because I would give my right arm to be with this lady if circumstances were different, yet he doesn’t see her value. I am also kind of haunted by what I would say to my LO if I ever ran into her again.
Meanwhile, I love my wife and would NEVER cheat on her, but there are some deep problems in our marriage and home life. We are trying, but there is a possibility we might not make it. I find myself thinking about what I would do if my marriage ever ended. The truth is I would make a beeline for my LO if that were the case, even though I am 99% sure she would shoot me down in flames. Still, I would focus on weight loss and fitness first in order to narrow the gap so she isn’t so much out of my league (I am doing that anyway, regardless of anything relating to my LO). But all of that is a fantasy for now. I need to focus on my marriage and give my wife a fighting chance first!
I so agree with that Mia, accepting the obsessive thoughts somehow makes them a bit less intense. Fighting them just made me unhappy and unable to live purposefully.
I do find anti-ruminations and changing the endings of my fantasies works quite well though. When I have the resolve to do it that is.
Wishing you well! x
Ok, thx Mia, so let them stay there, but dont run away with them either. I guess that makes sense…and in time they will diminish, inshallah…
Another small thing bothering me today. I know, or am pretty sure LO will lift this block thing again. I have to admit, it bothers me. But if she lifts it, it is a dilemma. I think if she does, I will just completely ignore it…no return block, just silence.
And one more thing…sorry…She keeps going on about her ‘good deeds’ and ‘patience with your BS’…past of me really wants to say f-you to her -I never did such a thing to her- but I have to admit it has been on the tip of my tongue a few times. Why does it bother me that she says such things? Because I am not an idiot and not at all convinced that her patience and good deeds are the result of her good will towards me. I guess, in the end, it doesnt matter but it seems so typically LO-ish to make such comments
One of the questions is, do you still have any legal/contractual agreements with your LO? If yes, you need to get out of them. This is why God invented lawyers.
If not, this is where you reclaim yourself. Go on the offensive. Tell her you do not wish to have her contact you again and you’ll no longer be sending business her way. Put her on notice.
Then, stick to it. She’ll probably get pissed off and maybe even threaten you. Does she have anything on you? If she does, you should probably have a plan in place to deal with it.
Or, you can go NC and hope it dies a natural death. The advantage of the former is there should be little doubt as to what the situation is. That should help you when the question of how you left things comes into your head and it will, eventually.
Ambiguity = Uncertainty
Thank you Sharnhorst. Our business dealings were all under the table and she doesnt have anything on me, other than I behaved like an obsessive ass. She could share that with coworkers at our shared day job but she wont. Even if she did, I could live with it. Basically she would not want the story to get out. I think right now if I can be disciplined with NC it is best. She got in the habit of never taking me seriously. Thank you for the sage advice.
I want to go on the offensive some day but just not yet.
She could share with your SO.
It’s normal to feel anger at LO, Steve. Especially in a case like yours where she seems to be an actual manipulative person, acting like taking money from a sugar daddy was such a selfless and altruistic action. But remember that what should matter here is you, your happiness and how can you achieve it by getting over the LE. As Sarah said above, what she does, thinks or says shouldn’t (and doesn’t) have an effect on how to achieve that purpose. You already sound a bit saner than before, so at least it seems you’re starting to go up. Keep on ignoring her and focusing on healing yourself, man.
Thank you Benjamin. I could not agree more. I need to make the transition to not thinking about what she thinks.
Yeah, I realize I sounded pretty insane. I am usually ok, not a serial loony.
About her being manipulative…I guess I would probably do same thing if situation were reversed. Maybe without the high-mindedness, but I would probably act in my self-interest too…if it didnt include hurting someone; how she likely felt. But punishing me for going NC…yeah that was uncool.
Thank you again, so much.
Scharnhorst’s Questions of the Day:
– Do you think your LO respects you?
– Do you respect your LO?
– Do you accommodate your LO or do you submit to your LO?
The questions won’t apply to everyone here but they’ll apply to a fair number of people here.
Hm, good question Sharn. If I answer purely for myself.
1-yes
2 Def no, ( I think I do, because I love him, but in my anxciety modem I get completely selfish, in my anxciety I dont see who he is anymore and his needs, I only want my needs to be met, I want him to be misserable to show his love so I can feel safe, I dont care that he was confused because I changed my mind about him every 2 days, because I could not handle my feelings, so I broke contact, showed up again, broke it up again, I did not really care how it made him feel ) He had to be there no matter what and declare his forever love basicly, and also change who he is beacuse I wanted him to fit my fantasy. I even called him autistic ( what he probably is, haha but stil I prefer him to change instead of choose myself if I want to be with him or not)
3. I dont know what it means 😀
Gees Mia.
So this is all self-imposed? Omg. Maybe you should go and be with him. What a pity. If he let you go and come back many times it means he has real feelings for you IMO
And omg he reciprocates…you could be missing out on something real
Have you considered going back to him and working through your limerence while together?
Yes I think about that all the time, but I’m not ready, I have to be happy first and not use him for my mood regulation. I have an anxious attachment style I have to work on, I completely freaked out when I was with LO. I have to work on some issues I owe that to myself and can’t do that to him (or any other future partner) besides we don’t live in the same country, the relationship will be challenging, and there is Corona we can not see each other etc . And due to me being kind of confusing his feelings for me reduced so we have to start from 0. He wanted to see if we could, but I can’t. I want to be happy without LO first. He is not my anti depressants.
Accommodation = Doing something for your LO because you choose to do it
Submission = Doing something for your LO out of obedience, fear, obligation, guilt or shame
XXX thank you Sharn
And the answer is submission.
I moled myself to what I thought he would like and so I lost myself. Not a good feeling.
Mia do u have a spell checker on your phone? We all get sloppy with our spelling but misspelling very basic words like: necessary, basically, anxiety, etc. is an eye sore. I’ve noticed you always misspell the same words. Just weird.
@ Snowflake: Let’s give her a break. English is Mia’s second language and she is in a non-English speaking country so her phone/computer probably doesn’t have English spell check. I always know what she means and her posts are very articulate, even if the spelling isn’t perfect!
I’m sorry snowflake, I’m not English so it’s difficult to write. And no on my work pc I don’t have spell checker, I can’t install it. On my phone I do.
Just be a little patience.
I also have dyslexia. I understand it’s grinding but I don’t see my own mistakes. And checking everything would take a long time, and I get very enthusiastic when typing. 😀 I will post more from my phone that will probably help.
Maybe look on it as an opportunity to cultivate more patience, Snowflake?
1-in a very limited way. She said admired the way l treated/talked with ppl. and that l had good business skills.
2 yes l do not have much reason not to. She has flaws, is human.
3 haha..so far, submit. She knows my will power is weak about her. I would like to surprise her on that point
1- Honestly, I don’t believe LO thinks much about me. If I ever pass through her mind, I’d guess she has a fairly neutral opinion of me.
2- Mostly, yes. She was very clear in her rejection text because she didn’t want to “play games”, and even apologized for what she thought as leading me in. If she actually meant it (and I don’t have reasons to think otherwise), it actually speaks lots about her integrity.
3- If by “accommodating my LO” you mean something like if I turned myself into a pretzel to try and keep contact with LO, even when she never initiated conversation, yeah, definitely an accommodator. Otherwise, I don’t know exactly what you’re referring to.
A belated response:
1) Yes
2) Very much so, a big part if his appeal
3) Mmm…he is my boss so some submission is required but I happily accommodate where I am not required to submit.
I wish this day had 12 hrs
It’s a struggle. Limerents should work 6 hrs sleep 6 hrs..
The other 12 hrs are wasted anyway.
As Dr L wrote, going NC will make your life super dull lonely and boring and even meaningless for a while. And than it gets better.
yep…pretty boring, very meaningless. Almost end of day 2 NC. Beginning to really feel the futility of going back at this stage. The concomitant depression that comes with this realization is pretty stiff; its tearing me apart. It means I will not be part of her life, cannot be. The past 7 months I used every trick at my disposal to stay in her life. Now I am making an equally herculean effort to get out of it. Limerence irony comes full circle leaving me black and blue…oh, too blue. I know she is on holiday somewhere; after all I paid for it (one of my last limerent gestures). Irony is a real b=)(( Did I not realize at the time that that contradiction might come back to sting me?
Im also on holiday and all I can think about is her holiday, for gods sake.
And here is a really funny story for you Mia, to close out the day.
Do you know how my limerence started, the seed, I believe? This is super wild….
My colleague at work told me that he and another female colleague were gossiping at the work party and saying that me and LO looked like we were classic affair material, the way we interacted, the hidden glances, her flicking her hair back, our secret chats etc. When he told me this – the bastard ( : – I was still at that neutral point with LO…definitely recognized that she was very pretty young girl but my good sense probably told me to steer clear.
As I recall I woke up the next day in a kind of fit.
Thank you jerk colleague for planting that seed in my mind. Got it off my chest; has been pissing me off for a while the absolute randomness of how it all began.
Ok, maybe it would have happened anyway because we were starting to spend lots of time together. But did this comment somehow fire my imagination and courage? I really believe it somehow did. Pursuing younger women – our age difference is not enormous, 11 years – was never really my thing. I always saw it as a precarious pursuit and often thought men who sought younger women were looking for that kind of ‘trophy’ thing, which I always found reprehensible. So, I was suckered into limerence with younger LO by a throwaway comment at an office party. Just fucking great, so typical.
I dont know, is it just me or do you also find that laughable in some way, to be derailed so haphazardly and driven into this hapless state I did not even know had a name until a month or two ago?
I think if you where spending more and more time together it was heading that way anyway, probably still unconsciously but yet attracted. Are you still in kalkan ?
I hope you sleep well tonight, and if you don’t, it’s okay too, all part of the progress.
Yes l leave Monday. I slept ok thx. SO angry that lm still getting up early to run-on holiday. If she knew what l was going through…l just have 1 goal today. Hold NC
There is no question that I am addicted to crack (LO) and the crack pipe is social media. I have absolutely felt the green shoots of recovery, but another relapse, and I here I am, crushed by recent photos I saw of her, liked, and commented on. Mmmm. Crack. And then the awful feelings I have, as I sit in the house with my family who I love, a secret being kept from them.
It’s good that I am quite sure she is not a mutual LO, but she is enough of a friend, and one I am simply not ready to part with just yet. That’s bad. It’s like I’m saying “but my crack dealer is my friend. ”
I understand that state of mind where you can become detached from your own thoughts and feelings. Meditation helps with that. But that doesn’t mean a big fat, crack-filled relapse can’t be waiting. That’s where I am, and it’s hell.
I have read a 1000 times about the chemical changes that happen when a crush of this level happens, but I still can’t buy it. Part of me is convinced this a once in a lifetime love opportunity that has come into my life, and eschewing it in favor of the status quo would cause a regret that would eat at me until my day of death.
Why can’t I see the regret that would come from abandoning my wife of 20 years, and the children I adore? I know deep down in my heart I won’t ever abandon them, but why do I get so troubled that this is a actually a decision waiting to be made? It isn’t. It’s an online friend that I can’t cut out.
Dont beat yourself up about it, that is for sure. Sad to say, but from what I picked up here, you probably have no choice to go NC. Of course, if LO feelings are mutual…well, man, thats a whole different ball game. I wouldnt throw away even my relatively imperfect marriage for LO – but that is because LO was always clear there was nothing on her side. If there had been, whoa!! things could become awfully dicey. In the end, DJ, I just wish you luck. You know you probably have NC and a fair bit of pain and mental anguish ahead of you. Any other way and you are entering the twilight zone and you have no notion of how it will end. You sound like a good man, so at least you have that to fall back to…and that is no small thing; know it. I would suggest coming back to this site for at least a few weeks. It helped me when the lows were truly unbearable
Whenever you enter thoughts like this, jump right over to Chump Lady’s blog very easily found online and read about the excruciating pain of infidelity and the everlasting trauma that spouses and their children NEVER fully recover from. If you’re a good person, it will stop you from emotional and or physical cheating.
That’s a great idea. Thanks.
DJ our circumstances are different but I can honestly say I didn’t start to heal until I unfollowed ex-LO. Social media is counter-intuitive to recovery. I was super curious at first and even got mutual friends to tell my about his posts but then I found the strength to stop that foolishness, and it was a giant step toward getting control of head….and taking back my power. It’s so worth it!
Did not hold executive meeting today after running. Listened to music, fired off a 1 line email to LO. I’m on boat cruise and everybody looks so relaxed. They must think I’m a recovering drug addict. I know these relapses are killing my recovery. Sometimes l lose all hope and just think of capitulating, letting LO back into my life on her terms and hoping limerence would disappear over time…kicking the can of pain down the road til lm stronger and have real resolve. But l know it will just be harder.
I can see by her response that she wants me to grovel. Then accept her back into my life on her terms.
I am without a game plan again
NC is your game plan Steve…..power on through the discomfort if you can.
Have you done DrLs Emergency Deprogramming? It has some great anti-rumination strategies. It is not about stopping yourself from thinking about LO but about directing at least some of those thoughts to be more realistic and more useful to your recovery. I have developed a mental stock of “anti-ruminations” for when I need to cool my LE down a bit and claw back more mental control. DrLs techniques are very effective but need repetition.
Never forget that your LO has not treated you nicely and is not worthy of any devotion. In truth, much of the NC pain of loss is really a come-down from the euphoric LE brain chemicals so not really about LO.
Sorry am in a tough love mood today. I can see you are having an incredibly difficult time right now. Please stick with NC, it is for the best as doing it will not get easier if left till later. Wishing you the strength and wisdom to beat this thing.
Thank you Allie. Tough love is very welcome. My brain has become very devious in all of this. I, too, pull LO back in, only to release her, so the deceit is certainly not 1 way. My ego also is getting in way big time. I need to believe she needs me…when l see or feel she does, l get a lift. All very pathetic.
I’m going to do the emergency steps next week. This week has been pure survival. I think with lots of distractions and action, next week will be different. Thank you so much!
As far as goodbyes goes, this one was my shortest, ‘penny dropped, realized friendship was convenient lie for both of us. Goodbye.’
I think its the truth and a good place to leave this horrible week behind.
Its back to Istanbul tomorrow and starting to get serious about recovery. I cannot rent out space in my head any longer to this corrosive parasite that already robbed me of 6 months. Feeling pissed off.
Started my plant nursery today, people in the neighborhood can orphan their half dead plants and I will try to fix them.
I called it ” the green sprout”.
As a tribute to Dr L and all the lovely gentle souls here. ❤️
Nice idea, Mia. Sounds therapeutic. It always helps to take care of someone.
cheers
One other thing, and I’ve said this before, wouldn’t it be great if this site had a message board? It would be so much easier than scrolling down to the bottom of different blog posts.
Oh Monday…and this goddamn limerence. A new week and a new plan to go NC. Can I play devils advocate here and pose a few questions (I think I asked before)?
It shows how ambivalent I am about the whole thing.
-Has anyone doubled-down and tried to push through with having some kind of normal healthy relationship with LO or is that de facto impossible?
-If yes, how could that be done, especially when jealousy etc factors in?
I mean I am going to be seeing my LO on an almost daily basis and work quite closely with her. I necessarily will be involved in chat, etc. So, what does NC really mean in this case? Ok, I get it…no whatsapp msgs etc, but is not much of the benefit I would receive from going NC going to obliterated by the fact I will see her daily. This is also really bothering me because I know if I didnt see her for a long time and went NC, I could get on top of this.
And, also, Im just feeling so weak at the moment. And she does just enough to keep me there.
Hi, Steve.
I think there’s already a couple of posts in regards to the topic of limerence and frienship. Maybe if you type something like “friends” or something on the searchbar you’ll find it. Basically the idea is that limerence and friendship are completely incompatible, because you’ll always want more. I can attest from my own experience that you can keep on being friends with a past LO, but only after the limerence has faded. Until then, trying to “just be friends” is setting yourself up to fail.
In regards to your LO and keeping NC, since it’s impossible to keep total incomunication, what I’d do in your place is to keep things calm and professional. I imagine i’ts going to be ankward as hell, after having a heated argument in regards to your limerence for her, but I’d say that it’s your best chance. I’d even be a bit cold if needed, but not so much as to make her think that you’re angry at her. Just enough to put some metaphorical distance between you two.
Hope it helps.
Thanks Benjamin. Yes, of course my behavior is different at work than behind the scenes. I dont think it is so much awkward as it is the constant reminder of her. I guess my date with the grim reaper is late September when we will both be back to work. She tends to laugh a lot too and is much more social than me…OMG. What a nightmare. She does light up the office, though…have to admit that.
Isnt it just an irony of the universe that the one person you want to appear cool in front of is exactly the person you can never be cool for? Everybody else in the office thinks I am a stand up and laid back guy? But she knows a different me…
Steve,
Have you read https://livingwithlimerence.com/2018/12/09/limerence-for-a-co-worker/ ?
Will read. Thank you Scharnhorst.
Of course, all of our popular culture and even classic literature is full of tales of a would-be lover patiently, nobly, staying by the side of their LO, no matter the torment. It just seems a lot harder to do that in real life. I know I am spinning and looking for a way out of the inevitable pain…
I hear you Steve! It is painful. All I can say is it does go away. I have been limerent before, although not for 20-35 years! While I still retain some curiosity and interest in those ladies, there is absolutely no spark left and I am 100% certain limerence wouldn’t be rekindled even if they re-entered my life. Here’s hoping you can get there too and that I will be able to get to that stage with my current LO!
Steve,
Romantic fiction has a hell of a lot to answer for!
Then again, I’m guessing when I watched Trainspotting it wasn’t the same as maybe a heroin addict watching it.
😄
I guess I am just not ready yet. I keep inviting LO back into my life. I guess I understand the dynamic at play and as Benjamin said, it will not end well cuz I will always want more. And I do. And I know it wont happen. But I am just not ready somehow. And I busy myself with thoughts of how it could work out, despite all evidence to the contrary.
On the up-side – if I can even say that – the prozac seems to have put a floor on the lows. I have not experienced any weepiness since I started 5-6 days ago. I ‘attack dosed’ it but will scale back this week. No major side effects and I have tried it before, with my main complaint being that it did not sufficiently blow my head off. Probably a bit less obsessive thinking, too. Feels like cheating a bit, but I was in such a nasty place, I did not know where to go. Plan is to meet with LO next week and see how we can move forward. I will probably cancel cuz I know there is no use, but for the moment I bask in the light of that, knowing it is no solution. Solutionless in Taksim.
k
Why are you meeting up with LO Steve? You say ” to see how we can move forward”.
Don’t you kind of know how to move forward? Not to be judging, I think about meeting LO all day but do you think it will do you any good?
You are right. It will not help at all. I am going to cancel. As I keep replaying in my head, ‘I will always want more than she will give.’
It is just useless, my brain knows it.
Its like a puzzle we try to figure out, we always come to the samen conclusion, we just dont want that conclusion so we start the whole puzzle again.
It does sound like that, Steve. You’re still tied up in the obsession, and both of you seem to be getting something out of a rather dysfunctional dynamic. I guess until you understand what that is, and decide to change, you’ll keep circling back. And blaming her.
Dr. L, when you quoted my words, I realize how absurd they are. If I am not ready for that, what am I ready for, more of the same?
I am not sure if I blame her. I guess I put it at 90% me, 10% her. Yes, totally agree…I have to understand what I am getting out of this; a repeating zero.
Thank you again!
Oh, by the way, my LO is fully aware of my limerence (though we do not call it that) – and has been supportive up to a point, though it is clear she would prefer I not feel that way. We have a complex relationship, full of bickering, breaking up and then making up etc., but of course each break up for me is quite real and visceral, whereas for her I feel dealing with me is like dealing with a tedious puzzle – you want to figure it out, but it is also a pain in the arse. Yes, I think that is accurate.
Lower number and less intense intrusive thoughts today. Probably due to initial effects of prozac. Was in contact with LO past few days, but not today. We planned to meet next week, but Im pretty sure I am going to cancel. Do I let her know right away, tell her I want to do the NC thing again, or wait til next week to tell her? I guess if I told her now, it means I could get it out of the way…not sure. Feel very off today; not weepy and melancholic, just listless. If I focus on LO I can still feel the pain, though I try not to do that.
“Do I let her know right away, tell her I want to do the NC thing again, or wait til next week to tell her?”
This is you on that question for the next week: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsJEMH_emBM
24 hours should be plenty of notice unless she has to make travel plans, in which case you should let her know in time to change them at minimal cost.
The longer you wait, the more potential embarrassment you’ll save yourself from trying to reverse the decision, perhaps more than once.
Thank you Scharn. I did it, cancelled. I feel a bit of teflon surrounding me. Hope it adheres this time.
take care
k
It must have been hard to cancell, good for you.
That was an action out of selfcare!
Yay for Steve!
Good work. I definitely think acting quickly is the best route if you can… why give your limerent brain days to ruminate on it. Trust your gut on this, it sounds like it’s keeping you out of trouble.
Nice, Steve! That’s a first step in the right direction. Next weeks are going to be hard, but hang in there, because it’s woth it.
One of my misplaced hobbies is For-ex trading. Yeah, suits the limerent risk profile. I noticed during my intensely limerent stages my risk appetite was enormous. I have noticed it going down to saner levels. Surely, that must be one of the oddest green shoots…like an early indicator…haha.
I also learned from for-ex that the difference between a huge loss and a huge gain is often very random.
Let us hope for the gains in our respective battles, folks. It was not a fight that we picked, but we are in it now.
Thank you for the support everyone. It really does mean something. I understand all the experienced limerents are strongly pro-NC. Im putting in some work now; focussing on how intensely negative the whole thing has been, trying to finally accept nothing will change there, and look to a future without these wild swings (though almost always lows now). It is no way to live. I need to re-program so LO is not center of my world. I need to slowly take back my independence. Today I feel it can be done, so that is an improvement in itself. I know very hard days are ahead, but I also know if I continue NC, and if I catch momentum, I will not be so much on the back foot.
‘wild swings (though almost always lows now).’
Right there with you. Just started NC myself.
Good luck, Thomas. Let me know how it goes. We all know it is a necessary evil. Me and LO continue to email back and forth about this cancelled meeting. I hope to transition into a proper NC asap. For gods sakes, I will have to see her daily in 2 months, in all her radiance and beauty (and she is indeed very beautiful; that is no limerent trick). I always use negative visualization (as much as I can bear anyway) and imagine how things could be worse – and they certainly could. I will see her arm in arm with some guy. Do I wait for that day? Seems like madness to wait, as it is almost inevitable. I dont wish her the best, I dont wish her a happy life. So I cannot even get the satisfaction of being a ‘man’ about it. Im petulant, selfish and childish- when it comes to her – and self-less and mature with the rest of the world. Every day I have to work hard not to slip into reverie about her, mostly the negative kind, imagining her wonderful life, full of possibilities. I have affection for her, but I also resent ever meeting her. I know the end already. Why am I still accepting limbo, waiting for the dark night of the soul when it all comes crashing down? We need to find the off-ramp.
Thomas, could you provide detail about your LE? I am always so darn curious how it happens and the details of how it emerged. I guess you have read about mine cuz I posted so much in past 2 weeks, but it has been hugely therapeutic for me and with the help of Dr. L, Mia, Benjamin, Scharn and countless others, I have gained a lot of insights into this fascinating disease. I encourage you to write about yours. Each case appears unique and the variety is huge – with reciprocating vs non-reciprocating LOs, disclosure to LO vs non-disclosure, presence or absence of SOs. Through this website I know what the way forward is. I have been resisting it, but eventually common sense and the advice of impartial, good-willing people is starting to penetrate the wall of limerence. But limerence is tricky, it circles back on you, takes away gains, drops you back in time. I have lost 8 months, every shred of dignity, and much else.
Hey Steve,
You’ve been really open and explanatory in recent posts which is amazing. I’m gritting my teeth here because I’m really nervous of seeming either silly, or crazy. Or both! One of Mia’s recent comments caught my eye, because like her I tend to develop LEs with people I’m involved with. Which feels a bit rich, when I see the pain and upset caused by other users experiencing unconsummated LEs. But here goes…
There are some stereotypes which frankly exist for a reason. Gay Male urban culture is much more accepting of casual sex than most straight subcultures, so actually getting an LO into bed isn’t really the issue. But what happens next for me is where it gets hard (I mean I was going to say sticky but wanted to avoid a pun, but hey – I failed).
Basically usually the ‘glimmer’ seriously embeds once I’ve pulled LO. But- and this is the annoying thing. It happens when I realise that LO is in some way unavailable to go further. So my recent LE is with a younger guy, who I like but a) he’s a bit of a player (which doesn’t bother me ethically but certainly doesn’t suggest wedding bells), b) I’m in the final year of a PhD, so I don’t feel ready to commit to anything too intense, and I know how intense and diverting my LEs can be, c) basically we’re on very different pages – I don’t honestly think a relationship would be practical, or would work d)when it comes to casual conversation we have little in common, he has an almost encyclopedic knowledge of Ru Pauls drag race, goes to Soho with mates and gets obliterated on drink/drugs.
BUT. I view him as utterly heart stoppingly gorgeous (I mean… he’s certainly good looking by conventional standards but you know what limerent obsession can do…). Also because of the lack of shared ‘superficial’ interests we weirdly veer into intimate deep chats about life, or feelings or whatever. I find myself being on hand to offer support with his emotional travails- his debts, his bumps and scrapes, his insecurities. It reinforces this bond. But (reminder here) I still deep down know that I don’t see us as a good match. Which reminds me of Dr. L’s post about separating likes from wants – I WANT to be with him while at the same time having enough information to know that I wouldn’t LIKE to be with him. Which basically fries my brain.
This also means that quite naturally, he only engages with me on the terms I’ve set out. So he wouldn’t invite me out with his mates, and on a deeper level I get why. But it means that if he’s having a ‘big weekend’ I don’t hear from him for days. Then, if/when he wants to engage with a slightly (13 years older) guy for support/reinforcement etc. I get messaged. I also get messaged if he wants a guaranteed shag. Now… this is where it gets difficult, and I feel like a fool… but he did ask to be my boyfriend a few months back…
At first I said no, but then I said yes and we embarked on a very brief attempt. But I quickly withdrew. Why?
Well. Firstly I was confronted with the reality that we were incompatible. I really want honestly interested in a lot of his stuff. Secondly I was fearing for my own progress towards completing my studies. Thirdly, (and I think this is reasonable) I pointed out that I didn’t know his friends and he was clearly not keen on me meeting them… which if I’m somebody’s boyfriend… I mean. Seriously? So it was me which called it off and he who said he needed space.
3 months of intense rumination later (PhD writing grinding to a halt) I ‘cracked’ and sent a message apologising and suggesting friendship. It was long before he was over and back in bed.
But now his dipping in and out (puns all over the place) was even more pronounced. Days passed of unanswered WhatsApps whereas before he’d respond in minutes, or at most an hour or two if genuinely busy. My LE was 11/10. I’d stopped writing, and have been struggling for weeks now.
So… what is my LE? Well, it a mix of compulsively masturbating ALWAYS about him. But also fantasizing about an alternative world where somehow everything is different, such that we are the perfect couple and attend weddings and barbecues and all our friends just think we’re the perfect couple. It’s just, I mean… barely (?) rooted in reality. Feeling like this makes me guilty because it’s so obviously divorced from the reality of the situation.
Anyway… over the past month a new unpleasant pattern developed. He would whatsapp to set up a meeting – out of the blue, often having not responded to my chatty messages. Then at the last minute cancel.
The last one was most humiliating because he sent a series of very explicit messages which got me all riled up then cancelled due to a hangover the next day. He even said ‘you shouldn’t get your hopes up if I’m drunk, even if my typing is impeccable.’ Which was a reference to me expressing doubt the night before because I knew he was at a party. I’d said ‘your drunk’ and he’d replied ‘no I’m not, look how impeccable my typing is.’ I’ve messaged with him drunk before and his typing goes to sh*t. So I bought in, hook, line and sinker and then he cancelled and I was a) devastated and b) embarrassed and angry with myself for feeling devastated by this young careless silly boy playing games.
But… I was still in the fight. So when my housemate said he was away for the weekend I invited LO over… and got a response saying ‘I don’t think that’s a good idea. I need to focus less on sex and more on my friends.’
‘…my friends.’ WTF am I then? I was livid, and not wanting any written record of my vulnerability phoned him immediately. On the call I basically said that I think he knows how I feel, and that I’ve not cared for the recent campaign of cancelling last-minute… but I also wanted to hold onto some power, so I explained limerence. Basically that though his behaviour was bad (not squirming off that hook!) The intensity of my feelings was too much. I’m ashamed to say that if he had come back with ‘oh my God! Me too!’ Things would have been very different. Luckily for me he didn’t. He just got non-committal. Murmured about me being the one who rejected him… but I stuck to my guns and he was silent when I pointed out that being some weird absent boyfriend unacquainted with his friends was never a viable offer. But I felt that taking the ‘this is about me, not you.’ Was the best line. I said I wanted NC and he suggested we could still talk to which I said ‘no, not for the foreseeable future.’
Just writing that makes me feel so strong, but the truth is its day 3 of NC, he knows my housemate is away and I’m fantasizing about him phoning and coming over. But no… No. Nope. He probably won’t call anyway and if he does phone I won’t pick up.
Nope.
That’s my recent LE. The others have been just as messy, sadly.
…my LEs tend to last 12-18 months too. But I’m hoping to get through this one quicker. I’ve always tried to stay friends which I see now seriously prolongs it. NC…NC…NC… (etc.)
Also Steve,
You’re right about this site. My close mates have seen symptoms of my LEs (I did for example stalk one ex, briefly and distantly/non intrusively). But they just think I’m a bit crazy. Fortunately I’m very good natured and clearly not malevolent, so not scary crazy, just… I’m older now and have more control. But actually seeing other people who can relate to this almost indescribable experience… and seeing the common themes amongst the different experiences we have. It’s really empowering to read other people’s escapes from destructive LEs and comforting to not feel uniquely crazy… I’m much happier in a collective!
(Apologies to anyone who finds ‘crazy’ problematic- it’s meant with affection).
Well done with the NC Thomas! Must be so hard when inviting him over is a real option. But there are guys out there that will suit you but you won’t recognise them if you are on the grips of an LE so keep going.
LE’s seem to make so little sense sometimes don’t they. I’ve had them with utterly unsuitable people in the past. Weirdly for me, when I once slept with an unsuitable LO after 1+ years of LE and we didn’t connect well in bed, it hastened the end of my LE.
Think you need to find a different masturbation fantasy….using LO deeply intensifies the LE in my experience so something to be avoided.
@Allie,
So much truth for me there, thank you.
I’m glad to say that he didn’t attempt to break NC this weekend. Even though he knows I’m home alone… so of course I’m sad and gutted but at the same time relieved.
I think learning more about limerence in recent weeks is helping me already.
I can both feel the LE but also rationalise and feel ok not acting on it. It’s painful, but at the same time its purposeful. (As Dr L would say). Its also not permanent. The sooner into it, the sooner out of it, right?
(Not overshare but I’m not using LO for private pleasure anymore. Which is clearly essential to the task at hand. Its odd because I suspect its just one aspect of LE reverend had become so familiar and almost preprogrammed.)
Reverie, not reverend! 😀
Haha..great Thomas. Yes, his being younger and good looking is a toxic mix l can certainly relate to.
But as you do not have an SO, I suggest finding someone else as a quick route out of this. And it seems current bf is a good candidate for…yep…NC. Light him up
Or rather better, go dark on him. I bet if you did, he would even come running back.
I too wanna light up my LO…She has been way too pushy about meeting up. I know it’s not just that she wants to hang with me. I even thought about getting snappy with her and asking her if she would marry me..when she would say no, l would tell her no point in meeting. Such is the nonsense l come up with these days. Good luck Thomas..maybe you should restrict him from your masturbation, at least for a while. lm sure you will glide through this.
The pain of this limerence has been nearly without relent for 8 months. They say that certainty helps, but she clearly rejected me from day1. She is single, very active in dating, but has not had serious BF during this time (as far as I know). I think if she did have serious BF it would somehow help. Every now and then, though very rare, I get a blissful feeling of unconditional love for her. I put away my pettiness, jealousy and I just feel a love for who she is and I feel grateful that she has been in my life. Then it is gone as quickly as it came. And I am left off the worse for the experience. I think I would enjoy it more if it were the devil himself who were tempting me.
Certainty helps, but it’s not an on-off switch that will suddenly make you stop wanting LO. Remember that limerent brains are really, really, stubborn entities; they need some time to come to terms with the realization that LO has not interest whatsoever in us.
It’s perfectly normal to still be pinning for LO even after they reject you, or are with someone else, or there’s another insurmountable barrier to getting some kind of reciprocation. Didn’t you mention that you have a SO? Maybe now it’s a great time to reconnect with them and make the relationship fulfilling in its own right.
Oh Steve,
My current LE is not that bad, but a few years back I had one which I think was as desolating as your current one sounds.
I came out the other side intact. Though in its depths I’d not have foreseen that.
Take care of and be kind to yourself. It’s bloody hellish, but it will pass and you will be ok. Maybe even changed. Maybe even better.
Also @Benjamin is so right about LO finding someone else not being a guaranteed cure. My most disruptive (actually my first) LE was for somebody attached and I (was young- forgive me?) stirred so much sh*t and gossip… it was a very chaotic period and it ended pretty brutally with me losing virtually a whole social circle.
The resolution is inside you, external conditions can influence things but will probably not solve it for you. (Maybe if LO moves to rural Siberia? Does your company have an office in rural Siberia? Might they consider opening one? Just for her? ;))
Thanks Thomas…Haha…no, nothing in Siberia ( :
Yes, I slowly try to reconnect with SO, but really LO is a huge barrier to that. I feel LO must go first.
Things are kind of lined up now. LO and I are not fighting, Im not blocked, and she wants to stay friends. I think this is my best shot in a long time at NC. If she blocks/unblocks again, it does not seem to even matter. I know she doesnt hate me; I know she doesnt love me. I do not know much about her life these days, so that also helps. If I am to get myself in shape for end of Sept, I have to take the steps now. So today I launch into another try at NC, but much better prepared than before. As I mentioned, I started prozac…zero weepiness in past 10 days. Still think about her a lot (maybe 50% of my waking day), but in a slightly more philosophical way. My one hold out seems to be my ego. It tricks me into thinking I still have a chance, when any rational person would have thrown in the towel long ago. I definitely will cut her out of my sexual fantasies (I think that is a great idea for anyone in LE and I have not heard it discussed that much). On that point, is it weird for me to fantasize about her with someone else? It is about 50/50…sometimes with me, sometimes with another. But I know for sure I have to let go of that, as it seems it can intensify the bond.
August 2nd…another Sunday, exactly 8 months in. I used to label… ‘Black Sunday’ (some were very dark). In those darkest days in February and March I was sure I was losing my mind, getting through the day seemed impossible. I worked so damn hard to fight everything; tried every trick, but my timeline was way off and I gave unrealistic deadlines. I told myself I was in the middle of the middle in February and that I would be at the beginning of the end in March and finally at the end of the end by late March. I was too optimistic. So, when May flew by and I was still in the tempest of the soul, I panicked and threw myself headlong back into LE and at LOs feet, capitulating. June passed wildly between hope and despair. In July, I knew I had to get out but had no idea where to find the strength, and my sanity was slipping.
Today feels different, not so intensely dark; I dont feel quite so out-gunned. I try to fortify myself by doing good deeds. Day 1 NC.
Re: sexual fantasies, no it’s not been spoken about much but then it is very private. But I’m glad I mentioned it and Allie referred to it in one of her comments. I’d be shocked if most limerents don’t experience LOs intruding into their private sex lives. At times in the past thoughts of LO have intruded on sex with my SO, and again I’d bet I’m far from alone.
In terms of what you actually fantasise about I don’t reckon anything is ‘odd’. I’ve mused on all kinds of LO scenarios, and they don’t have to involve me.
But it’s always something that I know has to stop. Its a key pillar of my obsession with LO which outlasts most other aspects… but with a bit of creativity (or extra material etc.) finding something else for those private moments is a very good objective.
Kick LO out of the bed in your head!
Also… maybe it’s not day 1 of NC… maybe you’ve just taken breaks and respite before resuming. I know you’d be generous like that with another member Steve, so remember it’s true for you too. Especially as it sounds like you cannot realistically prevent this person from making contact. You can only develop your resilience for whenever they do. Glad the tears are abating a little, and the day somewhat brighter. I hope it continues.
My LO and I never talked. We had a lot of “silent close contact,” like we would be right next to each other and pretend the other didn’t exist. I’ve often complained that my LO never opened her mouth enough to say something stupid that would break my LE. All her social media was locked down, too, so I couldn’t see anything dumb.
Well, I believe help has arrived in the form of a new social media account that she keeps public, wherein she talks about her area of interest. She’s 25 and started posting some of the ridiculously ironic social justice messaging we see the youth post, e.g. “If we admit all white people are bad, we can fight racism.” She updated her profile to include her pronouns of “she/her.”
So I’m rolling my eyes with this goofy stuff and feeling my attraction fade. But at the same time, she doesn’t post much of this stuff. When she does, it seem mechanical and half-hearted, like she’s doing it to stay in the good graces of everybody else. People our age will give the middle finger to the concept of being “cancelled,” but for the younger people it seems to be a real threat that they’ll be attacked if they don’t push the message.
haha… I realized I’m already making excuses for her to keep my LE going!
Info from her like this is gold @Matt. Anything that brings some reality to the situation can help pop the bubble and can then be harnessed to take LO down from that pedestal she’s on.
Twenty-something girls are a totally different species to us Forty-something guys. Their interests and values seem alien, the way they communicate is confusing and frustrating. They are a different generation. Realistically a genuine relationship wouldn’t last as we’re too different.
Of course when you’re deep in LE you overlook this reality, focusing on the positive aspects – mainly the (mutual) attraction. But when you get enough doses of reality it can help bring you back.
My LO would do some really dumb, immature stuff and it would slap some sense into me. She looked mature, and in a professional setting acted mature, but as soon as she was out of that and with her friends, or when I was telling her off about something, the child emerged and it was very off putting.
Speaking as someone close in age to your LO, and without knowing her personally, it looks to me less like she’s doing it out of fear of being cancelled and more out of inertia, which is something that tends to happen a lot. Probably those kind of talking points get repeated a lot in her social circle, so she ends up agreeing with them and going with the flow but doesn’t really give them much thought and is far from a true believer.
But yeah, agree with Vincent in that getting the most info out of LO is always good in stopping the idealization. When I checked my LO’s (mostly abandoned) Facebook, it was the kind of normie profile that you see a lot. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but I already heard my executive brain whispering in my ear “Are you sure that you and her are a good match?”. Of course, my limerent brain kept ignoring those warnings and trying to rationalize my attraction for her on the basis of “we’re going to find some common interests as soon as we have a first date, I swear!”.
My LO is süper hot sophisticated and l would give my arm to sleep with her. Other than that, she is nothing much. We had wildly limerent moments tonight where she refused to let me go yet gave no Clear reason why. İ think l might have just become her plan c.
Next time, you look her in the eye and tell her, “Tell you what. If your performance is good enough, I just might keep you around until I find a better offer.”
Then, you go find a better offer.
Haha…Thanks Scharn. I may get there some day. Yesterday was decidedly not it…got absurdly drunk and sent LO a bunch of cash, but maintained NC. What a joke.
( :
” Yesterday was decidedly not it…got absurdly drunk and sent LO a bunch of cash, but maintained NC. ”
If you’re tossing money around, I’m on Venmo and PayPal.
Quote of the Day: “The only thing better than money is O. P. money*.” – Minnesota Fats “The Bank Shot and Other Great Robberies”
* – O. P. Money – Other Peoples’ Money
Clip of the Day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSZ1h-bydS4
You’re the deer. Your LO is the Tasmanian Devil. [Apologies to any Australians out there]
He’s married.
You shouldn’t be doing well what you shouldn’t be doing at all but that ship sailed a long time ago.
Second clip of the Day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snTaSJk0n_Y – “Dr. Strangelove” (1964)
He’s the guy on the bomb. If you’re going down, go down with a bang!
He’s married and sending LO a “bunch of cash”. So he’s cruising for his wife to not only divorce him, but to subpoena LO to discuss the exact nature of their relationship. Precisely why was he giving her money?
There are financial dommes out there if that is what you fancy, Steve. Go find one.
Was this a relapse of NC? You spoke?
Just clarifying.
No, we did not speak. I sent to her after she sent me a long email about carrying on…
but no contact on my part…if that can be said with a straight face.
I don’t know Steve,
Can it?
😉
I think somehow I got the green shoots concept wrong way around ( :
Limerent madness.
Ask yourself the question before an action: is this an act out of self-love?
There are only 2 possible answers
Yes and no.
You know the answer.
We all struggle, we all do or have done crazy things or at least things not in line with our integrity.
At least we are honest here about our struggle and find a place where not being judged.
Amen to that!
Another thing I’ve found helps with impulses: if you can, write down what you are about to do. If it feels rushed, or heightened or spontaneous try to slow it down.
Then THINK.
Steve (!)
Steve!
I am appalled she takes your money. How can she live with herself? She knows you are besotted and married. She doesn’t seem to have a conscience. Can you imagine if your wife was sending money to some young guy whom she was besotted with? Wouldn’t you be furious with him for taking it?
Jaideux makes a very good point here.
This LO sounds like trouble, taking money off you. She’s clearly aware she has some hold on you. Normal friendships do not involve transferring cash in that way.
If she’s happy to take it, she’s not being very kind.
Wouldn’t you be more furious with your spouse for sending it?
Yes, it is an interesting question. Yes, I guess I would be pretty pissed. It is really not all that clear cut though; there are quite a few factors I cannot really go into detail about. Long story short, it is very much ‘my’ money that I am throwing away on LO…. But, hell yeah, there are 1000 more worthy causes….
Beckett sometimes it’s more effective to consider a POV that is not the the most obvious one. 🙂
I often ask myself how I would feel if my SO was behaving the way I do. We don’t know other people’s circumstances of course. Even SO and I are very different people with different reactions. But it’s a reality check to act with integrity.
@Jaideux – Apparently considering how your spouse or partner would react to the limerent sending money to an LO isn’t the most obvious one on this site.
I think we’re most of us thinking it, Beckett. Maybe it so obviously unreasonable there’s no justification Steve could offer…
Thank you guys. Yes, I know it was incredibly stupid. I had not done that in a while and obviously the alcohol was a factor. Anyway, it is start of day 3 NC (somewhat compromised). I am sure she will write me a thank you message; I’ll just leave a smiley and move on. I had a some kind of dream about unforced errors last night; definitely there was a message in there. I cannot afford to make unforced errors.
Does your SO know about your “business arrangement” with your LO or are you cooking the books to hide it?
Scharn…cooking the books, as always….
I also cooked them to hide some disastrous losses on an investment last year, so nothing so new there…Oh what a tangled web.
Steve, maybe take (in a longer run) this oppurtunity to live more consciously, and with more integrity toward jourself. Eventhough you are the only person in the world who knows you do things ‘wrong’, you know, and it undermines your self esteem tremendously.
When we behave in conflict with what is our perspective on right we lose face to ourselves. ( not to be a goody too shoe but building self asteem works as antidote to limerence )
Take this LE as a gift ( way more bigger than LO ) to chance things in your life to become more healthy and better. Sounds you have a huge opportunity here for growt.
I know it doestn feel like that, for now its probably just survival day to day but is very clear. Set new values for your new life! 🙂
“I also cooked them to hide some disastrous losses on an investment last year, so nothing so new there…Oh what a tangled web.”
If that was with “your” money, why bother cooking the books?
Finger wagging time, Steve…
These sorts of little compromises of your integrity add up. It’s the same mentality that leads to illicit limerence – “a bit of dishonesty is OK”. If you get comfortable living with small deceits, it shapes your attitude to everything.
I read this very interesting article recently (link below) about how the feeling of love can reduce anxiety. Thinking about my LO has always reduced my anxiety, and in fact I was taking anti-anxiety medication before I met LO, but stopped it after I met them, because I was feeling so much better. I wonder if that’s why I continue to think about them sometimes, even though I am otherwise well on the road to recovery. I have tried to think about my spouse, but I don’t get the same relaxing wave I get from thinking of LO. How can I get these same relaxing feelings of “love” from another source?
https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2020/07/how-fight-fear-love/614227/
“How can I get these same relaxing feelings of “love” from another source?”
Great question.
For me it’s not so much about anxiety. LO was a source of energy, joy, motivation, self-confidence,… I can’t find another source of this. Should come from within me rather than from an external source, of course. It’s just not there…
I’m also over the worst of the limerence obsession, mostly. LO is still in my mind, just much less often and with less intensity.
But I didn’t manage to find purpose in anything else yet.
I think that comes if you keep working on it Emma. We all want that to come immediately, as it can be a huge relief and distraction, but I guess sometimes its a lagging indicator. Keep putting the work in and it should come. Being over the worst of limerence is in itself a great achievement, so hat’s off to you!!!
@Emma,
You need to look for things to do I think. A good friend of mine moved to another city to be with her boyfriend. But the relationship broke down and she had no local friends.
She honestly just started ‘trying stuff out’, everything from pottery to hiking groups etc. To meet people.
Yes, at the time it felt forced, but she did it and dropped stuff she didn’t like kept up stuff she did…
She’s a bit of an inspiration because unlike most of us – she got out there and really tried. It paid off… she dances really well now (she enjoyed it, stuck with it)…. and she got a plastering qualification and replastered parts of her flat!!! 😀
She also has a nicely eclectic social circle – which was what she really wanted.
Interests don’t occur to you often… I think you need to try out a few possibilities.
Same here Emma, as I’m getting less obsessive I feel myself slipping more into depression.
I do everything I can, see friends, meditate, journal, try new things, go in nature, pick up hobby’s, talk to therapist, volunteer, self compassion. The joy is just not there.
I have to remind myself that there is progress ( and there is, I sleep better, I can concentrate better, I have more energy etc ) but no joy. I enjoy nothing.
I’m not sure it’s a fase of the griefprocess and (half) acceptance maybe?
Do other people noticed that in few months of NC they get depressed?
Depression is one of the 5 Stages of Grief.
– Denial
– Bargaining
– Anger
– Depression
– Acceptance
The end of an LE is a loss, even if it’s disenfranchised grief.
Thanks Sharn, ( again, what would we be without our shepherd 🙂 I thought so, what made me doubt is the fact that is doesn’t feel like I’m accepting, in fact I’m planning all day to contact LO in a while and give it a go. But while thinking that I don’t contact and go foreward, so the grief process continues I guess. Hm, the Idea of doing the full circle grieving without having contacted LO even once sounds empowering 🙂
haha…after a few minutes. But you seem like a real fighter who has her game plan in order. Surely, if anyone can get past this, it is you Mia!!!
Thanks Steve,
I do have a game plan indeed.
LE b*tch got to go. 🦾
Thanks guys for your helpful comments.
Steve, it’s a long story so I don’t think it’s about giving it more time. Add to that that I have a history of recurring depressive episodes. Thomas, I like your idea of getting out there and trying stuff out. You are right that it won’t fall magically in my lap, I have to experiment and keep my mind open. I would say though that it’s not really about having nothing interesting to do. I have many interests but the passion and intensity just isn’t there. Mia, I am so admirative about all you do! “see friends, meditate, journal, try new things, go in nature, pick up hobby’s, talk to therapist, volunteer, self compassion” Wow! I will try to get some inspiration from you to do more meaningful things.
I’m working with my therapist on what it is exactly that LO sparked in me and that’s now missing. What exactly should I be looking for in my quest for purpose. That’s a different perspective, not just keeping busy but finding exactly which need LO was meeting (or so I believed!).
Limerence can definitely worsen anxiety. But in the early stages it can seem like a cure to anxiety! I know that wanting to see my LO (in the very early days of limerence) inspired me to attend social functions I’d otherwise be too shy to attend. Also, talking to LO on the phone did wonders for my anxiety and made me feel really soothed. I guess it’s the hope of finding that one person who loves you unconditionally and treating that person as a kind of security blanket.
Unfortunately, LO was a fairweather friend, abandoned me totally, and I was forced to wrestle with anxiety on my own. It’s taken me many years to feel centred. Some of us naturally anxious types may indeed be using romantic fantasies to escape from stress. I guess I used limerence as a way to cope with intense social anxiety. It was a bad strategy in the long run.
My sister had panic attacks for a while. She found drinking soda water helped! That’s just natural water with bubbles in it, no added flavours or anything.
Come again? Soda water? As my pseudonym indicates I have ANXIETY! It should actually be my first name! But honey, if I don’t have booze and valium at hand, I might as well die. That’s real anxiety. Anyway, limerance can exacerbates the fuck out of anxiety, another unfair thing about this beast. Good on her tho for finding something less toxic.
Anxious, does valium really level you? Does it completely rid you of intrusive thinking?
I just spent 3 hours with a very attractive woman. I can honestly say that I thought about LO only once. I even laughed to myself, wondering if this was my deliberate attempt to transfer my limerence.
I mean, I really do not want to start this all over again, but maybe a fling might do me some good. It just seems to have gotten so unhealthy and out of all proportion that a fling even seems like an ethically preferred option. What a strange head space to be in.
My LO, who was adopted, posted something today in response to something she saw about “unadoptable kids.” She was highly offended, as she deserved to be. She had a measured response to the poster about how insulting the post was, talked about the pain that adopted children go through, and she had liked all the similar posts made by others. She obviously had a nerve pressed. I felt compassion for LO. I saw her as a human and my heart went out to her. She must have hurt so bad.
So this comes down to my green shoot of recovery just got ripped up. Dang it.
Don’t be so hard on yourself, Matt! It’s alright to see your LO as a person who feels pain, and feel compassion for them.
The trick is to not respond to that empathy with rescue fantasies and white knighting, of course.
“Heart of stone” is not a great strategy.
Yes, Matt, that is how it happens. I guess you just have to come back to the basic question, what does all of this do for you? Thats pretty rich coming from me, but I do try to ask that question. In my lucid moments, I give a pretty clear answer.
NC continues, emails from LO, demanding to meet etc. Im digging in a bit, I guess.
Good luck, Matt, probably best to get out of this as soon as you can; it can take unexpected and nasty turns. Thank you to all the others for support. It is not wasted on me, though it might appear to be so at times. Executive brain…yep.
Scharn…thank you for this:
Depression is one of the 5 Stages of Grief.
– Denial
– Bargaining
– Anger
– Depression
– Acceptance
I guess I am at near the end of bargaining; a lot of fun stuff to look forward to. I liked your point in the end that it is a loss. I think that is a key point in coming to terms with. Because, for many people, the LE is still alive and maybe even kicking, we have a hard time putting it in the loss column, where it inevitably is going. Entering day 5 or 6 NC (depending on how you count)…received lots of emails from LO, last one quite nasty and hurtful. Acceptance seems a way off, but maybe I took the first steps this week. I got through a couple of highly limerent moments.
Day 6/7 NC, the manic checking of emails has dissipated, as has completely obsessive thinking. Some realization that there is nothing to go back to starting to kick in. My mind a bit all over the place with multiple small issues, so if progress is being made, it is being overshadowed by these things. Less limerence past few days. General feeling of malaise and deep discontent.
Clip of the Day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqc8b9nKgoo – “The Twilight Zone (1960)
This is one of the more underrated “Twilight Zone” episodes. I tried to find a clip that contained just the ending but couldn’t.
The analogy to limerence is overwhelming.
I have lost 10 pounds since LE began, which I needed to do but was encouraged when I stopped eating normally. I have not had an appetite and have not slept well in two months. Any suggestions for how to take care of myself?
Also, I apologize for the compulsive commenting today, but these are moments I would have been engaging in message exchange with LO before NC. I hope to replace them with actual intentional living soon.
Have you tried some form of exercise that isn’t high activity? Tai chi, for example, or barre exercises or even some light weight lifting. What about a long walk with your spouse? Losing weight is one thing but you may benefit from doing something to increase your overall fitness.
Sometimes appetites can be perked up by the judicious use of seasonings. Hit the spice drawer. Or buy some fresh basil and pair it with a tomato and olive oil (I like cheese but it may disagree with you).
I will try tomato and lemon pepper since tart/sour usually help when I lack appetite. Thank you Lee.
Also, I follow “Alessia” on YouTube and her Woman Warrior series of ballet exercises. I participated with her only once, and was flooded with emotion at the grace with which she encourages us to take care of our bodies. In a season of shame it is very humbling to learn I can allow myself health and self-care.
I read one of Mia’s comments earlier somewhere and she said she wished to hear more stories about the lighter side of limerence.
That is a real challenge, especially now Mia. I guess in the first month or two there was some humour…
I was in a fairly formal business meeting. LO was supposed to come, but cancelled with some lame excuse. She called while we were sitting around conference table. I was so agitated that I hopped up and threw seriously hot coffee on my lap and shouted out and startled everyone,including LO on the line. As I deemed it to be an urgent call, I excused myself and went out into the hall, which I thought was fully separated from meeting room (but later found out was not). I paced up and down speaking in frantic and loud tones, imploring her not to hang up etc.
When I went back into the meeting, a smart-assed guy quipped, ‘Having problems with your missus?’
‘Yeah, you know how it is, she is unhappy with a co-worker.’
On leaving, I saw the other door which allowed them to hear everything totally clearly and in enough detail to know it certainly was not my ‘missus’ I was talking to, with conversation ending sentence, ‘I just missed your presence. Anyway, see you at work tomorrow.’
I do look back at that incident and laugh, but it was anything but comical at the time and I am not even sure it is funny at all. But hey, Mia, I tried…
Hahaha that’s so sweet, and it is kind of funny. But I understand you are not in the laughing about our limerent goofyness state at all at this point.
And that is perfectly fine, you are where you need to be. ( Although it sucks) I hope you have a relatively good weekend.
The lighter side of limerence? How about going to fortune tellers or psychics purely out of a desire to talk about one’s “special friend” and paying fifty or so dollars for the privilege? I felt like I couldn’t talk about LO to friends or family. They’d point out LO’s flaws. So I paid strangers to listen to me babble on! Embarrassing, no?
I dont see anything wrong with that Sammy, but perhaps a therapist would be more honest ( :
All my friends know about LO and have lost any patience on the subject haha
Not embarrassing, but little bit funny yes, I asked my friends not to judge LO too much since they don’t know the situation.
Did the fortune teller predict something?
I think the majority of limerents tried ” the secret” on LO. (I have).
We wish we had some sort of lovepotion. ( But as Alan Robargo stated ” we now know that is actually drugging and taking advantage of someone ” 😄
Immature thinking comes with limerence, it’s part of the deal.
Song of the Day: “Love Potion No. 9” – The Searchers (1964)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rXhXLsNJL8
Maybe, we need the potion…just not this one.
On the other hand, if you want to go the spell route, in 1972, you could do it for $0.25 and a trip to the supermarket check out line.
https://www.amazon.com/Everyday-witchcraft-fortune-telling-everything/dp/B00072ODZ4 . Read the comments.
Going tangential:
I was 16 and I bought it. It really rankled my staunchly Lutheran grandmother’s sensibilities. My mother’s side of the family had a known association with the occult going back to the Salem Witch Trials (true) and I had an interest in it. It provided another reason for my grandmother not to like my mother.
I didn’t believe it and I didn’t try it. I read it and if you tried it and it worked, you could do some really nasty stuff to someone that the book said you couldn’t undo. One spell involved burying a piece of string under someone’s window. The book said if you didn’t recover the string before it disintegrated, you couldn’t lift the curse…You could ruin someone’s life for $0.25.
One more for you Mia. My LO once naively asked if there were anything she could do for me ( business-wise). I asked her if she could grow a moustache. I guess it wasn’t all dark. Trying to think of others and hope other people will add as well. It’s a nice topic…the hilarity of limerence.
I once told LO I was in some weird carcrash, to get his attention.
I was actually in a weird carcrash,… 2 years before. When I told my sister she told me I was developing a personality disorder 😄😬 and declared me ” the biggest lier ever”.
One of my new rules to not lie anymore because it’s immature and when good enough why should you.
We still laugh about it though.
Haha..
You crack me up…sounds like sthing l would do.
I had a thought about dignity. We have so many challenges to our dignity…being blocked/insulted/degraded/being hurt by offhand comments and possibly harmed by unintentional acts.
Yet, in spite of it all, we always know what is right And good behavior in ourselves. It is a constant. We just know. And when we return closer to our ideal selves, much of the pain subsides. Perhaps our only true weapon against limerence is being true to ourselves. Sucking up the pain of it all. And getting back to the banal business of just being ourselves, with our flaws and all, yet somehow intent on doing some good in the world.
Sunday always seems to be body bag count day as this bloody war of attrition rages on, with an insensate enemy who scoffs at our feelings of injustice. Alright then, Thanatos, let’s go at it again. Last man standing, huh?
Ok… embarrassing?
My first LO was this guy who had just started DJing… so when it all turned sour (and I hated/loved/hated/loved him etc. But was acting out…)I’d go to his club nights, find a very visible place to stand (usually on one of the raised platforms or podiums) and stand stubbornly still reading Victorian romances like Jane Eyre or Wuthering Heights to show him how boring his DJing was.
I mean. WHY DIDN’T HE WANT ME?
Funny thing is, we bumped into each other 15 years later, and now occasionally hang out. He’s married to another guy, I don’t feel even a stirring of anything. In fact… he’s quite short and as my current LO is very tall… so weird right?
Shows that whole ‘one LO at a time…’ phenomenon… and the curative distance of 15 years I guess.
After a few days of ignoring me (Friday night l sent emails), LO msgd me and requested to meet. She hates all the emailing but is usually open to meeting. I will not meet with her. It would be a huge emotional setback and God knows what l could do…for now, lm just not answering. I certainly do not want or feel the need to assign blame. But to keep the record straight, my LO is complicit in all of this. Sure, it’s not the huge narrative l have spun, but she has made it very hard to let her go. She makes it clear that if l do, there will be consequences. So l have created a perfect hell of toxicity..
An LO who wants me to just be cool and fine but who gets pissed when l can’t be and who is retributive when l try to escape.
I guess 1 improvement has been that l gave up on idea of closure and l am indifferent about how it ends. Before l used to fret about it not ending on good terms. It’s less important now.
Scharn.
Any advice?
Not really.
You know the right answer. Get away from her and stay away from her.
Find a therapist that specializes in compulsive behavior. Yesterday.
Wear one of those dog training shock collars and when you feel like contacting her, zap yourself. Better yet, give the controller to your SO. Let her do it.
Or, you could enlist in the French Foreign Legion. They say the FFL can make you forget anything. I had a Navy buddy that said he went into submarines for that reason. Underwater, she couldn’t find him and he couldn’t find her.
It’s your life.
Unfortunately enlisting SO not an option. I’m going route of therapy
.
And yeah, staying away from her.
Thank you!
If l saw her with another man lm not sure what l would do.it could be ugly. Feel on pretty unstable ground.
Well good thing you don’t see her with another man. And even of you did, you choose your actions. You can also choose to not let it be ugly.
I would say find a therapist, asap, No more delaying. Go online and find a psychotherapist like today. Like now instead of reading this.
Tough love today, we all know it’s hard but you are an adult.
You choose
And hopefully you choose yourself ( and SO!) over the screaming kid who is driving the bus right now
And as we all know, having screaming kids driving busses, not a good plan. Also for the kid.
Get yourself together Steve with your dignity that’s still there and wants to grow. Find a therapist.
Or divorce SO and be with your not so appealing character wise LO, but you don’t want that. So take some healthy action for yourself. You are really worth it.
Thanks Mia, its Monday. I will contact therapist today. Days are clicking by without any improvement and I do not have the luxury of much time.
Will heed the advice, thank you!
First step to freedom, you have been in prison long enough now
🦾
Yep…in contact with therapist…might meet online today
Here here the man has willpower ! Good for you. 🌼💥
Haha…I think it was more a case of sensing the urgency. We had quick chat and he understands the basic issue, with follow up session tomorrow to get more into it. It feels good to be proactive again. Im also trying to return to what I know is the ‘right’ way to live, even if it feels half-hearted. I still didnt answer LOs last email. I really do not seek closure or even forgiveness/atonement…I just want out.
One question to ask him is why you feel compelled to pay this woman?
I totally get the nature of transactional relationsips. I spent 4 years with a woman who traded sex for friendship. It took another year for the body to quit twitching. If I’d invested all the money I spent on jewelry for LO #2 in the S&P 500 instead, it would be worth over $500,000 today. So, let’s say I was getting laid by her once/week for 3 years. That went to essentially zero the last two years until I kicked her to the curb. But, at the time, I was in love with her and thought we had a future together. The investment would stay in the family.
To keep the math simple, in 3 years I got laid 150 times. The opportunity cost of those comes to $3333/lay. She was good but wasn’t that good.
But, you’re actually paying this woman and what are you getting out of it? What’s giving you the rush? Is it that you can pay her?
You dont have to understand anything right now, you don’t have to feel relieved or good, you world can be upside down at this point as long as you talk to your therapist and keep NC.
All your answers will come in the next months.
When you are shooting yourself in the foot, the first step is not analyzing why you’re doing it.
It’s to stop shooting and/or toss the gun away from yourself.
So as long as you can avoid playing the role of “pong” to her “ping” while in therapy then you give yourself the room to analyze what’s going on.
Best of luck to you.
Excellent Steve,
I’m proud and relieved and I’ve not even met you IRL! Good stuff!
Steve,
Though I can’t help feeling that you didn’t give Scharn’s submarine option a fair hearing. If you become a submariner we can add it to Mia’s list of light Limerence anecdotes…
Or therapy… obviously.
Haha…good one Thomas. I thought about becoming a kind of wild man in the Carpathian Mountains, but responsibilities held me back. A submarinist would indeed be hilarious. Im looking forward to therapy tomorrow. I feel calmer than I have for quite some time. Not happy one bit, but calmer; like things just slowed down a whole lot.
A submarine is perfect!
You live on top of a nuclear reactor (not all subs), in a 300ft steel tube with no TV, no radio, no sunlight, and no women for weeks or months at a time. The air always smells funny. You take sex into your own hands. You have about a 100 roommates, none of whom you chose to live with but who are easily bored and like to screw with each other for sport. If the phone rings and they’re looking for you, it’s not good. On US subs, you can usually take a hot shower when you need to and the food is usually pretty good unless you’re underway for a long time or the Supply Officer forgets to order toilet paper or parts for the ice cream machine.
Other than those things, it’s a perfectly normal life.
Scharnhorst –
“No TV, no radio, no sunlight, and no women for weeks or months at a time. The air always smells funny. You take sex into your own hands. ”
Not much different than my bedroom in high school. Sign me up.
Hi Scharn I guess I am also transactional by nature and we had that thin ‘lie’ that we were doing business together. I would be embarrassed to say how much I spent to not even get a hug. Oh well, there will be plenty of time to muse over the accounting at a later date. Now I just want to get well and out of hell.
Steve, don’t be so hard on yourself. I can rival anybody on time wasted with my LOs.
Me too. The years wasted, opportunities missed, skills not honed, books not read, friendships not nurtured….well, the tally of cumulative loss due to LE’s is too fearsome to contemplate. Limerence is a thief that we inexplicably open the door to and enthusiastically welcome in .
That’s why I am now determined to “stay clean” of this addiction for the rest of my life. There are too many good things coming that I don’t want to miss.
Jaideux and Matt and everyone else. Your encouragement has been invaluable to me during this most challenging period. As I am sure has been abundantly obvious, I completely lost myself in this limerent hell, abandoning my self-respect and dignity in pursuit of…nothing. I have only done a few sessions of therapy in the past. But I really need it and I am going to stay the course with therapy no matter what. I know I can beat this; I just cant beat it with the wrong strategy. NC is the only answer. LO unblocked me when I didnt answer her email. Yeah, I still love her to bits, but come on, she should also let go. I am going to have to resolve this part at some point pretty soon. Just last week she expressed outrage that we had not started working together again. I mean, come on…after all my madness, who would benefit? I feel my animal spirits slowly awakening. I need a prolonged period of good living, work, therapy and NC. Strategy back in place. Amen.
“I still love her to bits”……your story sounds like person addiction to me not love. You love the feelings your LE invokes not her. Love is something that happens when you have invested time in each other, are good to and for each other, have developed a genuine mutual bond, where their happiness means more than you needing an LO fix. Try hard Steve to keep seeing beyond the glimmery surface of your LE….your mantra is “This is internal to me and not about her. I must solve this alone. She can do nothing to help me so it does not matter what she does.”
Wishing you well.
Thanks Allie. Yes, I agree. I am using ‘love’ very loosely here. I cannot imagine desperately wanting to escape someone I really love haha
I feel so grateful this morning. That maybe I have a fighting shot of taking this bastard down and restoring order to my world. I have always believed in the power of momentum; without it, it is just stasis. I have played in squash matches that turned on a single rally, so the meaning is not lost on me.
Great lines from an under-rated Frost poem.
‘They cannot scare me with their empty spaces
Between stars–on stars where no human race is.
I have it in me so much nearer home
To scare myself with my own desert places.’
I definitely became afraid of my desert places; rightly so.
Steve,
Good luck with therapy.
Can I just suggest that if LO has unblocked you, then this is the perfect opportunity to…
Block her.
That way she stays blocked. You need to take control of your access. It’s not perfect, you are vulnerable to setbacks. But LO is not on your team, man.
Good luck with it all.
This morning just now I thought, ‘I’m going to a cafe for breakfast, and to do some university work…’ and then ‘Crikey, I’ve been awake for a couple of hours and not thought of…(LO)’.
Small steps!
I’ve started dating again, well investigating things online, and I do still find myself thinking of LO if I say something I think is very flirty… like ‘maybe I should text this sort of thing to LO…’ but I don’t have his number so… not out of the woods yet (by some way).
This all sounds very positive. I really envy where you are ( :
Had 2nd session with therapist. He said my situation was pretty severe, so he is in favor of some serious meds (I knew he would be) and I am just fine with that. I usually do not suffer many side effects. He wants to wait til next week when meds kick in for next session. He was pretty much of the idea that LO is a vehicle and not ‘the one’…I have to admit, it is true.
Yeah, Thomas, I might block her. I guess right now I am just feeling the benefits of NC and positive steps, so I do not want to disrupt anything. It does bother me a bit I have an unanswered email but if she is mature, she will understand why I am not answering.
I might block her, no more explanations etc…lets see.
Two things Steve,
Alas I went for breakfast and sat there enjoying lovely food while internally fighting the constant intrusive longing that LO was with me… stupidly it’s a cafe we’d eaten at together and eating there on my own, feeling smug that I felt things were getting better spiralled off somewhere more irritating. It’s so weird holding that longing and that sense that it’s not good for you in the same place. I’ve never been addicted to a substance… but actually I have smoked occasionally and whenever I’m kicking the habit (again) I get those feelings. Smoking a cigarette while knowing it’s a ‘bad’thing. So yeah.
Steve, I bet you have read ‘the illusion of closure’ post. I’ve found it so helpful because I spent months being drawn back into contact with LO because I didn’t want to be weird, or hurtful, or admit that I couldn’t handle the emotions (i.e. to flatter his ego and simultaneously look pathetic), and deep down I needed to see him again… and every episode I lost more power… and by the end he actually was a complete dick and I took it (and that’s not even a pun, because he wasn’t even putting out at that point, just alluding to the possibility… which left me feeling pathetic for staying on the end of the phone burning with humiliation).
You will have a professional relationship with LO. Let her have your work email, your work mobile (if necessary) and block her from everything else. Even if she’s not a bad person per se, her impact on you is what matters. Block her out, and you’ll be looking out for yourself…
…and you’ll be stepping towards something better. Calmer…
Then again, my LO is still occasionally ruining my breakfasts..!
Hi Thomas
Yes, I agree. My LO is tone deaf…after all the mental anguish – not her fault – I have been through she says she ‘loves me as a friend’ and then…oh boy…get this…asked me to invest in some new business idea. She says we will be in close contact anyway (work) etc. OMG…even I was flabbergasted. I wish I had not picked up the phone and broken NC, but it was pretty instructive. The whole conversation was like talking to someone from another planet. I realized how far our worlds were away, as she prattled on giddily while I whinced, with her even asking me to cover some of her online work duties next week. I wasnt really sad or upset, just totally non-plussed that she seemed to be suggesting a near total re-set. It was then that I realized I created this monster and it is up to me to send it back to its lair. I really cannot expect any help from her and as you said, she is not on my team, even if she thinks she is. I mean I really cant keep on supporting her dreams, which all have nothing to do with me.
Pity about the breakfast ( :
I wonder how many decent meals LEs have ruined ( :
Well, so I have started to do things right again for the past few days and have been more stable than I have been for the past 1.5-2months.
The only problem is….LO. She seems to be thwarting my efforts at NC and undermining the whole separation bit, even though she has also initiated many many times because I crossed boundaries. Now she seems intent on solving it like ‘adults’. I simply explained that I will always want more than what is on offer and will always then be unhappy. She is being obtuse about it.
Do I need to just go hard NC and not explain anymore? She seems to be pulling out all the stops to contact me and hook me again…
Its a pity because I feel I am moving forward/ready to move forward and I know she is not part of the solution for me, but clearly she feels I am part of some solution for her (or if nothing else, a useful element in her life)…writing it makes me know the answer…gotta go hard NC
Hard NC…the one thing I have yet to succeed at…the missing part.
I can pretty much see where it is going. At height of my limerent madness, I said I would always be here for her. She is going to call me on that…for sure.
Steve!
I bet every limerent here said that one way or another. It still comes back to haunt me that I said to current LO ‘whatever happens we’ll always be friends’. Now he’s blocked.
I think you need to be brutally frank. It sounds as if you have communicated clearly the reasons for NC. She has more than enough to go on… sorry to make the comparison, but my LO is (painful as it is some days) is NOT contacting me. Frankly it was a mess at the end, he can see that. So I’m lucky. Because a clingy LO must be a nightmare.
Your message must be simple. You know your mind better than anyone else. You know that you need to put significant distance between you and LO, acknowledging that specific, limited, work communication might be necessary. This is not about her, or what she thinks she can do, or how she thinks she can change. This is not about her at all. This is about you. In fact, I think it speaks volumes that she thinks this is all about her, and that your needs are less important. She’s getting things from you, whether it’s money, or titillation, or intimacy and for her what she’s taking is more important than your wellbeing. That says a lot about a person.
If you respond at all, it must be in a hard, firm tone, that invites no reply. Concentrate on ‘I’ messages, and keep it brief. It must clearly be your last personal communication. Then block, everything!
This is about you. Fetishise being completely oblivious if you have to. Make it a game, an objective. Become impervious. If she was respectful it wouldn’t be necessary, but it sounds like she’s not. So you must take matters 100% into your own hands.
She, even now, may not ‘get it’ but you do. So it is you who must act, and to hell with her opinion on the matter.
Do it.
Steve, Not only limerent people say things ” in the moment” everyone does, especially when in love. That’s part of being human.
Doesn’t mean you have to stick to it.
In fact it’s kind of immature to hold the other accountable for what was said, ” but you would love me forever” doesn’t mean the person will reason his way back to love. ( Oh yeah you are right, yes now I will love you again)
Feelings and reasons change.
You don’t owe anything to anyone that is more important than your health.
I know Mia, thanks. I have to stop worrying about what she thinks. I have enough on my plate. Thanks again for the reminder.
I know you are so right Thomas and thank you for taking the time to hammer it home for me. Yes, what she thinks is irrelevant. I have ruined the last 8 months with what ‘I’ have been thinking. I need to become impervious to her. Oh damn…just let me find the strength. I have to. There is no other way. I think she will be persistent to some degree if I pull away. It seems easier if we are fighting, but maybe this will be better in the end…I left when she was OK with everything (forgave me, wasnt as bad as could have been….dunno, just random thoughts at this point). I know I need to seize sthing these days as there has been a fundamental shift in perspective.
We were never intimate BTW
By way of explanation….
she seems to have changed course. Before it was daring me to go NC, but scoffing at it.
Now, its like she is saying that our destiny is not to be NC, that we need to work things out. I feel somewhere in hear, approaching, is the big hump (no pun) that I need to get over. The existential crisis: moving on my my life completely without her; the idea that I never fully reconciled with but must do so NOW.
It just sucks Thomas, my limerent brain is telling me I am really in love with her and she is reaching out to me- even if just in friendship- and she has forgiven me, takes me good and bad, etc etc etc. And then I even go so crazy as to think she might eventually fall for me. stupid stupid me. seems a long way off til therapy next Tuesday. My therapist said better not to see her but If I caved, not to make big deal about it. I would have preferred he strongly admonished against.
Steve,
Your destiny is to cut this woman out of your life. She’s playing with you, and probably ignorant of the actual degree of distress you’re in.
Don’t allow a silly game by somebody who obviously enjoys your attention to potentially capsize you. It’s not her fault your a daft limerent, but this game playing back and forth moving goalposts ‘daring you to go NC’… that sounds flipping narcissistic…
…and a friend wouldn’t take money off you like this either.
I don’t know about you, but it sounds like she’s got a few problems of her own…
…and NO… you’re the last person who should be getting wrapped up in that mess.
You decide. Not her… and sorry love, it’s curtains!
(Remembers how many times my mates have cautioned against a couple of my less savoury LOs… remembers ignoring them)
Strong. Impervious. Free.
Go for it.
Isn’t it almost dating time Thomas?
Since I don’t date I’m almost getting excited for yours 😄
He s dating again already Mia ( : And almost enjoying his breakfasts. I think his LO is speeding by in the rear view mirror. Lucky guy, but he took the steps, so…
Blessed by being busy today. I wish every day were same…need to blast away from LO
Had a few drinks and after Lo sent me nice msg saying there would be no more blocks cuz she considers us to be friends I sent her more money cuz I guess it is the way I express things now. I feel pretty fucked up about the whole thing and wonder how this ever ends
Clip of the Day: “Brooke Explains Why She Has No Problem with Drunk Texting”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDsG1Mj6c1M
Maybe you should avoid Singapore Slings.
Im going to go hard NC. I am out of time and we are both out of reasons to keep this going. Her latest charm offensive caught me off guard. Just 1 solution to this mess: HARD NC, even if it means rough landing.
I am ready for it.
Steve, maybe stop drinking for a while, it doesn’t do you and your judgement any good.
Totally agree. It weakens my resolve. Im strapped in and going full NC.
Sharing a green sprout, totally new.
Doesn’t mean my LE is over but nevertheless..
Today my mind almost out of habit started to make plans how to get in contact with Lo in the future and so forth. And than a new thought appeared and I said out loud
” But I don’t want to be with Lo “.
5 minutes later I wasn’t so sure but this is really quite a biggy for me.
Maybe I don’t want to be with him in the future and maybe that’s totally okay..
I am getting out of my limerence. I do not look for my LO anymore when I feel down. Don’t get me wrong: I am
really happy that my limerence decreased so much, but sometimes I miss that excited version of myself. I acted like the beet version of myself and was full of energy. Right now I am really low in energy and find it hard to look for it.
@ Valentine.
The best version of yourself is still there. Maybe try to perform that for yourself?
Post limerence flatness is really grotty though. Hope you feel better very soon.
Yeah, same here. I’m too mostly out my LE (barely a thought of LO anymore, and when I have those LO feels more and more like a complete stranger), and is pretty sad (for lack of a better word) seeing all go gack to the normal shades of grey that is my world when not in a LE.
As Thomas said, the best version of ourselves is still out there, but is difficult to find the motivation without LO’s carrot dangling in front of us.
I have come to realise that I don’t allow myself to feel my emotions or share them. I am always focused on everyone else in the room, and how I can fit in. I really need to allow myself to acknowledge what I’m feeling, and react to it. Becoming aware that my needs matter should have occurred to me sooner, but any time is life is better than none. I feel like this is helping me out of my current LE, as my needs were never important (not LOs fault) because I didn’t allow them to be. I have cried on and off for the past two days letting stuff out, and going forward I am going to practice acknowledging when anxiety or stress is pushing me to look for escape. My escape can no longer be limerence. It is a foolish way to attempt to feel good. That needs to come from legitimate good things, not fantasy.
Wise words, LimeRat. Letting yourself grieve and feel is an important part of getting out of an LE. It’s easy to fall in the trap of thinking that grieving for LEs gone wrong is “immature” or something.
I have a similar background to yours in the sense that I too tend to hide my own emotional needs behind a curtain of self-dependency for fear of being mocked, and now that you mention it, I think that part of the reason I’m a serial limerent is because I look out for LOs to “rescue me” of that hole. But as you say, limerence is a symptom, not a solution. Nobody as been cured from neumonia for coughing hard enough.
Good for you!
Without realising I am used to numbing myself, and in this period all is coming out. Pain I didn’t even knew was there, I cry my eyes out and it’s okay.
Every evening I write down what I feel and if I used anything to numb, ( food, drinks, YouTube, fantasize etc)
I think allowing to feel is a huge step limerat!
@LimeRat,
Unlike you I think I’m pretty good at getting in touch with my needs and feelings. But I know different people are… well, different!
But even from my perspective limerence has been something that had always caused me a lot of problems. My LOs are generally either unavailable in some way. Also they are often not really ‘right’ for me, and I’ll spend a lot of energy changing myself (superficiality) to move closer to being compatible. But actually its mimicry.
But the point I’d make is that when it all goes to hell, and inevitable NC etc. I find that its particularly hard to accept how I feel. Because so much of my infatuation ended up rooted in the ‘not me’ part, or more accurately a me that had distorted himself to fit with LO. Accentuating bits they liked and minimising hiding aspects they didn’t. So the grief at the loss of that dynamic is really slippery, and I struggle to allow myself permission to feel it.
This made so much sense when I came across the concept of ‘disenfranchised grief’ in this article (in case you’ve not read it)
https://livingwithlimerence.com/the-loneliness-of-no-contact/
So whatever your normal disposition, I think facing our feelings and being accepting and kind when facing something that seems so silly/invalid/crazy/-insert any self-detrimental adjective here- is a really tough thing.
I had a major Green Shoot of Recovery today and I just have to share. Today I drove past one of the unique and wonderful restaurants former LO took me to. In the past I couldn’t even look at it, because all the feels would surface and I would probably crash the car. (It’s happened before when lost in distressful LO thoughts.).
Today I was stopped in traffic and noticed the restaurant and took a good hard look at it and remembered the wonderful meal he ordered for us the first time he took me there, the video we made, and guess what? Nothing. No feels, just a nonchalant indifference about the whole thing. Almost as if it had happened to someone else.
No anger, no melancholy, no longing. Nothing.
When I realized this epic change in my thinking I did feel something.
Immeasurable relief.
Really good to hear, Jaideux! I’d say that recalling a personal memory with your LO such as yours and not feeling anything is a defiitive sign that you’re officially over the limerent episode, so congrats!
Thanks Benjamin!
I know I should continue NC and avoid rumination (as limerence can always redevelop) but yes, I feel that massive progress has been made. When I was in the the throes of the episode I would have never, ever dreamed I could be ever be free. Ever. (Lots of evers for emphasis). But then, voila! The hard work eventually pays off.
Yay!!!
Scharny you were the one that has always said that when you feel indifference you know you are on the other side of the hill. (Or something link that). Now I finally get it.
LOs…meh….
A number of things have caused the embers of my fervent hope of *something* happening between LO and I to diminish to the extent that in the last week or two, even my favourite ruminations felt flat and lifeless, and utterly failed to fan the flames of hope back to life. The deep sadness inspired by my fading hope has in turn coloured my ruminations with disappointment and rejection. I know my optimistic imagination is perfectly capable of glossing over reality and re-igniting the happy fantasies again, but enough already! The time has finally come to let go… the painful truth is, LO will NEVER do anything with me and deep down I knew this all along but refused to see it. Sure, I have never before both felt this strongly for a man AND sensed equal reciprocating feelings from him… but there is no value in this if I never get to even be real friends with him, let alone act on the physical attraction. So instead, I will deliberately embrace this emotional change of course, hold on to the sadness and use every ounce of the motivation it generates to gently turn my attention away from any seeds of hopeful ruminating the millisecond I notice them.
Three days on, the LE intensity and yearning has diminished by more than half! Don’t get me wrong, I still have feelings for my LO, but they are now tagged in my mind as something that is past and will never be, and I feel this at a visceral level. I am still very vulnerable to relapse so not out of the woods by a long shot but my mind is much clearer and more free – I am thinking about other things a lot more. I feel like I am recovering, and quickly. I feel sad but good at the same time.
I must thank Marcia and Kata for the wise words that helped bring about this realisation over the last 2-3 months. And LO, who’s self-protective distancing from me, and slowly moving away from my project pillaged my hope fuelled drug supply.
Allie how are you doing on your recovery?
I have just realized another green shoot of recovery. I had to make contact with former LO regarding a business issue after over 2 years of NC. I have been dreading this day, but I kept it professional and did not reciprocate on unneeded pleasantries not related to the issue. I was polite but succinct. Afterwards I felt empowered, relieved and at peace.
I don’t foresee any further need for contact anytime soon and I am just amazed at how far I have come, and much healthier I am in mind and heart.
Big thanks to Dr. L and this site for facilitating this metamorphosis.
Limerents, you will survive and eventually thrive!
That is an entire tree of recovery…. the equivalent of sitting your anti-limerence practical exam and passing with an A*. Well done, very inspiring.
Thank you Allie! I know I will always be prone to rumination and a future LE, and my progress has been very slow with some false starts….but success and all its rewards is realistic for all of us! I never thought I would escape!
Way to go!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svkKW3D47Fc – “Guadalcanal March” – “Victory at Sea” (1959)
Hahaha! I laughed out loud and imagined marching around my forest! That was fabulous LE!
I’m not sure if this counts as a green shoot of recovery or not. But it’s a good story, so I’ll share it…
My very first LO has some musical talent, and, so, yes, he’s posted a few videos of his performances online, which everyone can see. I came across a video of him performing at some posh venue and also taking a break during the middle of the performance to dance with his beautiful wife. 😉
Interestingly, I didn’t feel any strong emotion watching former LO perform. Also, didn’t feel any pain or jealousy watching him interact with his spouse. I mean, they looked cute together. They’ve got what Hollywood calls “chemistry”. He’s got some moves and she’s got even better moves. (She’s a professional dancer).
I think my main thought after watching the video was: “I wonder where I can buy that shirt?” 😆
Seriously, though. Watching this video made me realise I’m not infatuated with this guy anymore. He’s fun, cool, talented, whatever. But I wasn’t personally invested in him being fun, cool, talented, etc. Watching the video was just like watching any former classmate/old friend goof around with his/her significant other on a night out. It was nice. No angst. No sadness. No feelings of (God forbid!) possessiveness. 😉
Sammy,
Gigantic green shoots.
Well done and bravo!
Thanks, Jaideux! 🙂
Yay for you Sammy! I think we have enough trees for that forest now.
Thanks, Allie I. 😛
The lack of possessiveness is a big green shoot. It used to torture me if I thought LO even liked someone or found them interesting. I was simply furious if he showed interest in others. I made me frantic to think of him hanging out with others. It hurt to not know what he was up to all the time. It hurt even more when he started defecting (probably realizing I was a lost cause) and I wanted so badly to be special to him.
Now, there is a lack of pain. If I am 100% honest, I am not indifferent to LO. But it doesn’t hurt anymore, whereas there was so much pain before. I am grateful for it. I just wish LO didn’t glimmer so much. Why is he is so damned attractive to me? But fine, I’ll take the lack of pain. I don’t seek him. I don’t track our absences. And it is a relief, really. Being able to be present in my own life is fantastic. Another big green shoot right there.
A few years on, I can only cringe at my comments. Things turned out way different than I may have thought at the time, but alas, Im still in a kind of limerence. The one thing I can say is thank you. Thank you to everyone onm this forum and the forums creator. It certainly helped me in one of my deepest and darkest episodes. It really did help. Thank you
The “green shoots of recovery” kept me held together when I was sure I could not be held together, 2 years on in a full on relationship with my LO is pretty weird. Im still on my back foot quite a bit, but Im not sure if its limerence anymore. Feels like love. But yeah, as a limerent, thats my default line. I feel she could love me more….oh well, another day, another malady.
Hold on…need some gaps filled in here. You ended up in a romantic relationship with your LO from 2020? And what happened to your SO?
Explanation please?
Think that’s why he said “cringe” at those comments.
Cringey indeed..
yes, I did end up in relationship which Im still in, I guess. SO and I parted. We had many break ups prior to LO arriving on the scene, but, yes, ultimately, that hastened the end Im sure. Limerence is really something to be careful of. It can turn your life upside down. You lose yourself and remove yourself from the center of your life. Thats a sad fact. I think I probably needed proper medication at that time. I tried everything under the sun to remedy it. Meds and this forum would have done the trick. I often wonder how it would have all worked out if I had really just gone NC. I ask myself that a lot. I guess thats proof Im not really content. wish you all luck. If you have the power o go NC, turn on your brain today and do it. Yeah, it will hurt like hell, but it puts (wo)man back in the machine.
Only being here for 40 days, I already feel much less miserable or “hopeless” — Less burdened, shameful, guilty, anxious, resentful, furious, doubtful; less waking-up, nightmare, rumination, dizziness, chest ache, heart flutter, short breath, inner void… and Stoped pondering “why? why? why”…🤔
I now can enjoy romantic music and songs, read romance stories, care about friends’s thereabouts, look at strangers’ wedding photos, exercise and meditate with more focus, and “roll my eyes” at my utterly idiotic LE acts — still can’t believe that was ME! 🫣
Moreover, I have smiles on my face while thinking about LO —whoever he is and whatever he has thought of me. I can converse calmly, with genuine interest, with him as a person, despite how much I have suffered in this lengthy limerence (could have died if my triggered lymphoma had a different nature or had spread out. 👽)
Again thanks to DrL and LwL community.