Midlife is a common time for limerence emergencies. There are a few good reasons for this, as we’ve discussed before, but in the previous post I didn’t really consider what the midlife limerent was hoping to get out of the experience.
Before they just plain wanted to get out of the experience
Midlife crises are often presented as pathetic or selfish, and it’s easy enough to see why. Whenever someone who has taken on responsibilities decides that they are going to neglect them for a while, or behaves disruptively, or spends precious money or time on a new “vanity project”, their family and friends balk at the imposed change in their own lives. At that level it is selfish, or at least self-centred.
Purposeful people would approach this dilemma by negotiation. Before taking unilateral action, they would discuss their motives with their family, attempt to find reasonable compromises, and review the responsibilities they might be able to relinquish (maybe so they can take on new ones). They might point out that continuing with a status quo that drains them of energy and enthusiasm is bad for everyone. They might point out that time is running out if they want to start a new career or side-line or hobby, and so they have to take action.
That’s all very healthy and wise, but doesn’t really apply to limerence. Unless you are planning on trying to negotiate the opening of a previously monogamous relationship, sexy fun times with someone else is right out of bounds.
Despite this clarity of purpose, however, many midlifers still find themselves limerent – often unexpectedly. So what gives? What is it that otherwise rational and productive adults succumb to at midlife that leads them into infatuation for someone else?
The loss of youth
There’s no escaping the fact that a “last chance” panic fuels midlife limerence. Dig a bit deeper, though, and you start to question what the panic is actually about. Is it to do with the desire to start a new family? Or is it about the desire to prove you are still attractive? Is it about nostalgia and memories of earlier love affairs? Maybe it’s about escape; either from an unhappy relationship or – even more intractable – from yourself.
The answer will be different for every limerent, of course. But I think that many of us – if we were willing to be candid – would admit that a strong desire is to experience romantic adventure again. We don’t actually want to start a new long-term relationship and new family and new life, we just want to carry on having the exciting sensation of becoming infatuated, because it’s been a long time since we had that experience. Most revealingly, if we were forced to state what we really wanted, it would be to hang out with LO until the limerence burned out, at which point we’d go back to our spouses. Like a galactically selfish holiday.
So it is just selfish, then?
Long-time reader and commenter Lee got in touch recently, to suggest I talk more about the selfishness of limerents and their objectification of other people. Well… this is that complaint condensed into a pure distillation. LO and spouse would be completely fine with this neat little consequence-free parallel universe fantasy, because they are just filling roles in our daydream drama, rather than being respected as real people.
But, aside from those few limerents that genuinely do just act on every selfish impulse, the vast majority of us have the wit to realise how absurd this is. It’s never taken remotely seriously as a prospect. It’s a silly fantasy that we indulge in, to quiet internal anxieties about ageing and loss and self-doubt. A what-if mental rerun. Re-imagining life in a different way to try out alternative stories that excite our imagination.
The problem with this blithe naivety about a little harmless daydreaming is that things escalate quickly. I’ve written before about the three conditions for limerence nucleation – the glimmer, the response, and uncertainty – and if you have an LO who is sending out mixed signals like this, the fantasy can start to spill out into real life. The back and forth of hope and uncertainty leads to a situation where the limerence reverie really works. It leads to a mega-hit of self-generated pleasure that becomes addictive. We discover that those idle fantasies about someone who is actually in our lives weren’t just giving us a free dose of euphoria, they were reinforcing a life-disrupting slide into limerence. It’s a very rude awakening.
What, you mean I have to pay for this ride?!
So why doesn’t it feel selfish?
Laid out baldly like that, it seems obvious that this is a self-indulgent fantasy; disrespectful and bound to end in trouble. But at the time it doesn’t feel selfish. In part that is because it is all unreal, but also a common feature of limerence is the desire to surrender yourself utterly to LO. The thought of being in their power can be thrilling. The loss of control, the loss of responsibility, the subordination of your own life to theirs. So even though it is a selfish desire for reciprocation it can also be an urge to subjugate yourself. Limerence is full of contradictions.
Bringing this back to midlife: all these conflicting desires and impulses come together at a time when many people are already prone to self-doubt and ennui. It’s a time for taking stock of life, of reviewing where we are and what we are doing. And as the saying goes, most men lead lives of quiet desperation. Most women too. Confronted with the possibility of starting a new romantic fantasy, many of us realise that it is a much more serious challenge to our self-image than we would have predicted. It’s how we react to that moment of realisation that determines how much damage limerence does.
Some midlifers rebel, indulge, and smash everything up. Some sedate themselves, do their duty, lower their heads and tramp on where they are led. Others have a breakdown.
Much better is to pause, look back, look forward, decide on the burden you are willing to carry and the road you want to take. Then strike out with your head held high.
Interesting. In concert with the above, I wonder how many midlife limerents have LOs younger than them. A great many I suspect.
My LO was just under a decade younger.
LOs #1-#3 were within 2 yrs either side of me. LO #4 is 15 years younger but she was over 40 when I encountered her. It’s somewhat sobering to think that a 40yr old woman would be too young for me but the LE never got to the point where that was an issue.
On the other hand my wife is almost 10 years younger than I am. I thought a lot about that when I was thinking of asking her to marry me. She was 22 and I was 32. I wondered if she would come to regret the decision to get married that young and before she had a chance to experience life on her own.
I decided it was worth the risk. If she’s ever regretted her decision, she had the graciousness to never let me catch a whiff of it.
Perhaps you should be castrated or lobotomized?
A somewhat random and aggressive comment, Bob.
@Bob JEnkins,
The former has been overcome by events. As for the latter, if they ever tune it to the degree they do in “Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind” and it’s covered by insurance, I’d consider it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ke2HjqVXfc
PS: The guy in the blue tie is really DrL!!! But, don’t tell anyone.
3 of them just under a decade younger and the most recent…17 years younger!
My LO was 20 years younger (I noticed I said was, and not is) and over 40..
My LO was 30 years younger…
Mine is 25 years younger. My kids are grown and I have a baby granddaughter, yet I find myself daydreaming of getting married and starting a new family. It’s ridiculous. After twelve years of what I thought was a happy union with my current partner, this came out of nowhere, though it’s not my first rodeo. I wasn’t expecting it, and I definitely don’t want it. This is how I came to find this blog. I’ve been going crazy over this girl that I sit next to in school. We meet Saturday mornings for coffee before class, as it’s supposed to be a study group, but she and I are the only ones left and have been for months. She’s never shown any interest in me other than as a friend, and yet, here I am.
I’m definitely a limerant, and have been for years, even though this is the first I’ve heard of this term. SO and I both are and the euphoria when we first connected was indescribable. I rode that wave for about ten years before things started to collapse for me. Life in general has been on a downhill slide, and I went back to school to train for a new career. Cue the new LO. We followed each other on insta and snapchat, and exchanged numbers. Blah blah, woof woof.
Anyway, this comment has gone on way longer than planned. School is done in three weeks. I’ll be going full no contact with her at that point. Going back to therapy today. Obviously I have a lot of self examination and self work ahead of me.
My LO is 25 years younger. She had an affair with my boss who is 20 years her senior. I am not sure if I am jelous of him or there is something else going on. I am in a place where my SO has just sat down and does not want to engage in anything but binge watching TV and staying at home. I am to young for that and that might be a major part of the attractction.
My LO is a co-worker, 31 years my junior. I’m married and she is in a long-term relationship. I worked with her daily for over three years without (I think) feeling infatuated, then realized rather suddenly two months ago that I was in limerence. Had switched my SSRI from sertraline to duloxetine about a month earlier – like to think that was the trigger, but probably just an excuse. My LO is sweet, energetic, very friendly and of course, very attractive to me – not that I’ve put her on a pedestal. I haven’t disclosed, but my behavior at work changed dramatically overnight (happy & funny to quiet & sullen) and have probably telegraphed my feelings with things I’ve said. Even asked (by text) if she had any idea about what was going on with me. Her reply “no idea what happened”, but I’m totally convinced. The mid-life article was spot-on for me. I don’t fantasize about LO at all, know that there is no chance of anything other than a work relationship, but would love to spend all my time hanging out and talking with her – just trying to reclaim my youth. It’s been amazingly hard to deal with this – can’t go NC for a while. Just need to suck it in until I retire later this year…
Interesting reading through the comments. My last one is 3.5 years younger, which isn’t a ton, but I always envisioned my ideal mate being older so. I definitely took note of the age difference during my self evaluating and concluded that he was sort of a representation of things that were lacking in my own life, one of those things being my own youth as it slips slowly away into the past.
Mr. Lee’s LO was significantly younger. Over 20 years younger. Young enough to have children.
On the other hand, I had hit my expiration date. Oh, he has said he never wanted to be a parent again, but he frequently says he regrets his poor showing as a parent and wishes he could get a do-over.
Odd question, but what’s generally considered a midlife crisis? I find this post very relatable, but for me, this all kicked off when I was 30, but the complete life overhaul that followed/is following is more in line with my friends in their 40s-50s. I’ve always related better to people older than myself (ex was 22yrs older, SO 10yrs older, LO 7yrs older) so wondering if this has come early. Or whether I’m going to have another shake up again later on (hope not! I’m starting to find an equilibrium!)
I think this sort of “crisis” can come at any point in adulthood, but it is common in the 40-50 decade as that’s when most people start to realise that they are past their peak (in terms of youth and promise). It could come earlier or later – maybe even more so if some life event triggers it. Like a bereavement or bad relationship or health scare.
Crisis is probably a misnomer too. I agree that “shake up” is better. Or maybe life shock.
Please Help. I have been told our situation fits that of my husband being limerant, but I have also been told that it may have been symptomatic of a midlife crisis. I am so confused and am not sure what to make of any of this.
My husband of over twenty five years began fantasizing about a coworker. These were fantasies not only about sexual situations, but also ‘what if’s in terms of being married to her, while also being wealthy, accomplished, etc. This was not someone he knew well, but instead spoke to a minute or so a day. I believe that he fits many of the characteristics of having a midlife crisis, in that he began to find fault with our marriage and to some degree, me shortly before he began to notice her ( or maybe because he met her. Who knows?)This relationship with her was not reciprocal by any means (I confronted her, because he was adamant about it, and she was stunned. ) They knew no personal details about each other, and had never spent time together after work or really during work. She simply treated him as an acquaintance, but he believed that she singled him out as special, and while they only ever exchanged pleasantries about the weather or job related matters, he described her to me as ‘always being on his side’; ‘respecting him’, and “agreeing with him.” She was several years older and much less educated and attractive than most of our peers and friends, and he has said that he felt he ‘took care of her’ around an almost all male work environment.
Obviously, he thought he was receiving attention from someone quite different from his ‘difficult wife who was a lot of work.” Shortly after the fantasizing, he began to view pornography, and this too was very out of character for him, do to his religious convictions. All of this came to a head, when the woman became engaged to another man at their office. This man, one of his supervisors, is much more outgoing than my mild mannered husband, and they have had difficulties working together in the past. Shortly before the wedding, he woke me one night and said ‘there’s something wrong with you, or there’s something wrong with me, but I believed that it is you”, then launched into a barrage of all the things I had done wrong over the years. Although I had noticed some mood swings and irritably, I never even knew this person worked there. Now, he is telling me in the middle of the night that he be in love with her. Along this time he is fantasizing of objecting to the wedding, making her a “Sister Wife’ to me, and thinking they may have experienced love at first sight.
My question is this: could he have truly cared for or even been attracted to this person or was she just convenient? Was I competing with a real person, as he saw her or were all there qualities he heaped upon her because she was just there? In truth, she was the only woman he came into contact with on even a slightly regular basis, without me nearby. How do the previous issues with the other man (to whom I knew my husband felt inferior) factor into all this? He says that his confusion over the marriage and all previous feelings of attractions went away after they were married. It has been several months, but he still seems to believe that he may have had a relationship that went deeper than it did. Is this midlife or limerence, or both?
Hi Meredith,
Sorry to hear what you’ve been going through. Of course, it’s not possible for any of us to answer your questions definitively, but it does sound like your husband has been demonstrating a lot of the signs of limerence. It’s fortunate in many ways that the LO was clearly not interested, as that simplifies the situation from your perspective (compared to an affair, for example). That said: I would be cautious about forming your judgement on her involvement from her reaction to your confrontation – it is possible she was enjoying the attention from your husband and encouraging it, even if not actually interested in reciprocating.
Many people do become limerent for LOs who they hardly know, and construct self-deluding fantasies about the particular quality of eye-contact, or greeting, or knowing smiles, as evidence of reciprocation. But, most of the limerents that do this know deep down that it is wishful thinking and have moments of lucidity when they realise it is all one-sided. It is unusual, as in your husband’s case, to try and maintain that in the face of direct evidence to the contrary.
That may suggest (as you propose) that there is more mixed into this than just limerence. Possibly elements of midlife crisis, lack of confidence, fear of failure, discontent with how his life has progressed etc. are getting bundled into a limerence episode as an emotional dam starts to break. It seems likely that your husband is going to have to do some deep work of understanding himself better, figuring out what is eating at him about your relationship, and learning how to communicate that to you effectively.
Similarly, I would consider seeking help for yourself. You seem like you are good at taking charge and being a “fixer” (a lot of us relate to that syndrome!), but it is also important to take some time to look after your own feelings and hopes and what kind of marriage you want to have.
Hope that’s some help, and wishing you all the best in trying to navigate your way through this.
Thank you for the reply. I am so grateful to have anyone to share this with. I am feeling really desperate here with uncertainty about what to do. I know for certain that the LO did nothing to encourage or reciprocate any emotion toward my husband. A good friend of mine works along with them and was stunned when he heard about the situation. I know that there was really nothing there, except his feelings of being”appreciated” by her. Most of what he had misconstrued never happened (like they worked well together, but really he just dropped off materials to her and she said ‘thank you’ to him every time.) He told me that because she moved out of the way when forklifts went by, he could tell she had a “ winsome personality and submissive nature. ‘Huh? That’s craziness to me. So, yes, it was definitely all in his head, but what do I do with that? Is this something he couldn’t help ( hormones/ brain chemistry) or is as it an attraction he chose to feed. Also, according to him, these thoughts and fantasies are never in her presence, just when he did was alone, like driving to or from work. Was this LO just convenient or was there an initial attraction? I’m not sure. I asked him “How could it happened that the first woman in your building ( usually an all male environment), near your age who spoke cordially to you, just happened to embody every quality you found lacking in me?” I said this to try to have him understand the implausibility of it, but, even now, believes that because she was nice, he was attracted to HER. Let me preface that with he has stated that it occurred to him that a different woman we know also”agreed with him” and he could have also been “ attracted to her if he had been around her more. I have been so beaten down by this, I’m not sure I want this marriage anymore, but I can’t imagine not having it either.
I forgot to ask. Does it matter that the “ rival” for her affection is someone he didn’t trust and felt inferior to? He has said it wasn’t that she was getting married, but to whom she was getting married that bothered him, because he didn’t want her taken advantage of. But I doubt his honesty in this. He has also said throughout this, he never wanted to leave me, just pursue her someday if he were widowed or if I ever left him. Our faith does not allow for adultery or divorce, so it would have to become a situation available to him through my abandonment ( I didn’t even know we were having problems.) or death. This seems really strange to me too.
Meredith – Your faith may not allow for divorce, but what does it say about separation? Abuse?
He is making it clear that he doesn’t respect you. Oh sure, he was “just window shopping” for a replacement wife. Just in case you happened to die. Is this someone you want to have making medical decisions in your behalf if you were severely injured?
Don’t play the role of frog in the pot. You always have a responsibility to take care of yourself. If he is in a crisis (which I doubt but you may not), then you need to step up and take charge while he is less capable of making sound decisions.
Consult family law attorneys. Start with those who offer a free initial consult. Come with your questions written down. You aren’t obligated to do anything with the information, but it will help stabilise you at this time.
Also a therapist for you. One outside of your usual circles/faith community. One with a license and profession on the line who will be YOUR advocate. You need one.
I also posted down below. It was supposed to be a reply but I flubbed it.
Puffs Plus, tea and my best wishes to you. You really don’t have to let him steamroll you or put up with him telling you that you suck. Shut that down. He won’t like it but he may respect you for it eventually.
““ winsome personality and submissive nature. ”
Whoa whoa whoa – what? Submissive nature? Is he reading the Gorn series or some such tripe?
Check the memory on the computer, including the cache. There may be a lot more going on than meets the eye.
I think the ‘submissive nature’ comes from his traditional religious upbringing (which we have always struggled with, because I am not submissive by nature). Another big complaint is that I have ‘always’ made all the decisions and never let him be in charge. The problem with this is that he has never wanted to be in charge or bothered with any responsibility or decision making- just the fun parent and nice guy. Although he may have thought this over the years, it comes to a head during this time. Could being limerant for her cause this rewriting, or overemphasis on my faults? I thought it was a midlife thing, but is this mainly limerance? I know that in his fantasies of her they go to a church and of course ( not kidding), his mother likes her ( She and I don’t get along). He says these fantasies don’t matter – that he just took someone he was attracted to and made her fit the mold. Just an escape from his regular life ,HOWEVER, he holds to the belief that it was the person, not his interpretation of her and his ideals. And then the meltdown we was about to get married to the coworker he didn’t like seemed to make her even more perfect.
This one hits home with me. I have someone in my life who will never assert themselves, even if asked directly “what would you like to do?” – to the point of getting angry if you keep trying to give them the opportunity to choose.
And then they occasionally burst out with “We never do what I want!” It’s crazy making.
With respect to your “is limerence the chicken or the egg” problem, Meredith, it could be either. The certain thing, though, is that once limerence sets in, devaluation of the spouse often follows. I have a couple of posts on this, based around the cognitive dissonance of reconciling their poor behaviour with their self-image as a Good Person. Unfortunately, a religious background could make this even worse, as they have to wrestle with self-belief that they are a Godly Person.
I do think there is more to this than “simple” limerence. He does seem to have built a very elaborate fantasy around very little encouragement. I agree with Lee that you need to focus on yourself and your needs for a while. With respect to the “when I’m a widower” comment I’m not so sure that’s an aspiration, so much as the only way he could imagine being with LO – but it is still pause for thought that he would say it openly.
The plain truth seems to be that your husband is going through a personal crisis and has a lot of emotional work to do to figure himself out. It would be good for you if you were able to do the same for yourself. Then, see if there is a way you can reconcile your lives and worldviews in a way that means you can both thrive in a marriage together.
A hard road ahead…
Meredith,
If you want to see how this could play out, check out https://livingwithlimerence.com/2019/05/04/when-things-have-got-physical/#comment-4055
It was necessary but it was horrible.
” Another big complaint is that I have ‘always’ made all the decisions and never let him be in charge. The problem with this is that he has never wanted to be in charge or bothered with any responsibility or decision making- just the fun parent and nice guy. ”
Meredith – check out http://www.mustbethistalltoride.com
Specifically:
https://mustbethistalltoride.com/2014/02/26/an-open-letter-to-shitty-husbands-vol-6/
Please, read it and see if that rings true.
Scharnhorst, Your example regarding your coworker was exactly what I was talking about. You met someone, clicked with actual components of her personality, and knew there was a connection to an identifiable person. So, I can definitely understand an attraction to someone you didn’t want to be with, but at least found merit, beyond ‘nice”. But let me be specific, my husband did not want to spend time with her-at all. Maybe he did and chose not to because he felt his was being “safe”, but he has often told others that he never even wanted to really being physically around this person, in times when it was acceptable. Now this person was known for being matronly and quite dull, so maybe he didn’t want the other males in his office to see him express interest in her. He cannot name one positive quality about her, other than she was nice. That’s why I doubt the validity of the attraction. Of course, to build this land of fantasy, he had to have at least liked her some, right? She was the only woman around, so convenience?
I wrote down the few other things he has said about her- easy to get along, hardworking, nice, and a few others. Later while we were just talking, I asked him to name the qualities. They were EXACTLY the same. And he cannot name, one physical feature or attribute (Except a small bottom) which he found appealing. When I asked if she wore glasses when he thought he liked her (she does now), he didn’t know, so maybe he avoided eye contact? Shy around her maybe? or just didn’t notice. I asked if there if was the sound of her voice, the color of his eyes, or the way she tilted her head, and anything that he found appealing, and he can’t name one. So, it is different from getting to know someone, I think.
Even though he is not very emotionally mature and could be refusing to tell me these things, I truly don’t believe he can. Due to religious convictions, he said he wouldn’t have cheated, even if he had the chance, and if fantasies, I have died, so technically he is not cheating. There are no kisses, embraces, words exchanged in his fantasies. The name is not visible and the body is that of a porn star, not the 50+ grandmother she actually was. He told his best friend that he never wanted to kiss her or get to know her, that’s why I am so confuse. She was basically a body with a ‘yes, dear’ persona which was how he saw her when he interacted with her. UNLESS, he has just lied about all that and had feelings for her, but I just don’t think he that clever to do, then lie about.
“That’s why I doubt the validity of the attraction. Of course, to build this land of fantasy, he had to have at least liked her some, right? She was the only woman around, so convenience?”
His LO is dull and matronly? What’s his mother like? What do you know about his family history?
I’d almost be willing to bet lunch that his LO is singing to something buried pretty deep that he may not be aware of. The hormone replacement may have contributed to his responding to the glimmer. Midlife may contribute to it. It’s interesting that he can’t or won’t identify the glimmer.
All my LOs connect back to my mother.
Meredith,
This is going way into speculation but check this out. The context is somewhat different but since borderlines have already been mentioned, maybe it isn’t so different.
“The maternal imprint is potent/heady, and is often retained as a sense memory; the way she smells, the nature of her touch or sound of her voice, etc., make him think that he’s unwittingly found what he’s truly needed his whole life!” – Shari Schreiber, https://sharischreiber.com/do-you-love-to-be-needed/
It seems to fit what you’re describing about his attraction to her. He may really not know what’s attracting him. If you check out Schreiber’s index, she also has a great article on Passive – Aggressive behavior. I learned a lot from reading her stuff. I’d print out her stuff and discuss it with the therapist.
Figuring this kind of stuff out is why God invented therapists.
My Limerant Brain is an Idiot,
You described things so perfectly and in a way I haven’t been able to do. I want so desperately for this to have been out of my husband’s control and not really about the person, because to admit otherwise, means that he CHOSE to break my trust and our vows, even if it was gradual decision. And infidelity was always been a deal breaker for me. I know forgiveness is required, and I can give that. But forgetting and moving on is another matter. I’m afraid wound will never heal completely, and so right now, my marriage is much like a broken plate. I can glue it together, but I don’t think I can ever completely see it the same or think it holds as much value. You are exactly right when you described how submissiveness is seen as a feminine commodity in my religious community, with men entitled to impose sanctions upon, yet care for and love. I feel that my husband has never wanted the responsibility of being the spiritual leader of our home, but instead has only ever really wanted to reap the benefits. It’s immaturity on his part I know, but I do love my husband and I have been grasping at straws to make this all just some mistake, thrown on him not by choice, but by something else. And so, do I seek a new normal for me and my children, where I am never really happy? Because unless I can validate this somehow, I don’t think I will ever be the same. And I am grieving for what I had that maybe wasn’t so great, but that I believed to be pure and true.
Scharnhorst,
Yes, ‘matronly and dull’. Those are not my words, but the ones of a couple of other men who work there too. Our sons play ball together, and at a game, I asked if they knew her ( They did not know about her bring his LO$, and that’s what they said. When I used social media to find a picture (Of course, I would. He was so convincing in telling me that she had been interested in him.), I saw a photo of her and her daughter. I thought it was the daughter at first until I realized it was the other. She has had some challenges in life, and even though she and my husband are close in age, she looks much older. Even when he has described her features, he says her looks are average or ‘passable’. He admits that the attraction was not physical ( sex was involved in fantasies though, but faceless and different body). He says the attraction was because she was helpful and nice, and I know that he thought he was helping her with tasks, even though this wasn’t really the case. Gaining praise for helping someone has always been very important to him. As for his mother, she is very difficult to please and finds fault easily. She is also very passive aggressive, in that she will try to elude that if you done things her way, they would be done correctly. I’m not sure how that factors in, but she is “quietly opinionated”.
Scharnhorst,
Thank you for the Shari Schreiber link. Reading through some of it has me thinking of trying individual video counseling sessions instead of waiting until my in person ones could resume.
Heck, about two thirds through:
“Too many people grow up believing that deep, dramatic feelings of longing, yearning and craving for someone are what “love” is supposed to feel like~ but genuine love feels reciprocal, steady, nourishing, consistent and safe. It never produces anguish.”
Me, explicitly stating to LO2, in my thank you letter to her:
“You probably noticed that, much like a child, I needed praise and encouragement to stay on track during [physical] therapy. You provided this to get the results.” My parents were emotionally closed off. Children were to ‘be seen and not heard’. Finally it’s clicking how FOO has such a big effect.
I think in many ways the person was not the problem, it was him and where he was in life. This was the first woman he was around, where personal accountability of our marriage was needed. I know that he has told others that he did not miss her on weekends or during vacations, so much of this occurs during down time during the week. He also told a friend that he knew there was ” nothing” to this person, so I wonder if he just chose what he had to work with. I know he has always doubted himself in many ways, in general. Also, I was his only real girl friend and only sexual partner, so I know that the “what if’s about another life or spouse is an issue too. I’m a little frightened by how adamant he is about he still believes some if this was mutual. My father was mentally ill and I grew up in a pretty dysfunctional home. One if the main reasons I was drawn to my husband was his honesty and sense of security. Now that is gone. I just don’t know if this was something he could help. I know I am rambling on, and the time you have given me is VERY appreciated. Only a few friends know about all this, and I do plan to see a therapist for individual counseling, but I feel like l am losing my mind over this.
I read the comment, Scharnhorst, and understand how things can quickly go from bad to worse, and sometimes tough choices have to be made. I am concerned that when push really comes to shove, I am all alone in making any decisions about how to handle this situation, and I second guess myself constantly. My husband was the type of man who would sit at the booth of a male server, rather than an attractive woman server, because he believed in “guarding his thoughts and actions around temptation”, yet he seemed to become attracted quickly to an older divorced grandmother who rarely spoke to him. He still doesn’t get it, and even when I have talked about divorce to him, he seems pretty indifferent about half the time, though he states he loves me. Our children are older teens and adults, and refuse to offer any support or opinion, other than since nothing physical happened, I should let it go and get over it. Meanwhile, I feel like a worn out old shoe, tossed in a corner.
Merideth,
Remember, the therapist works for you. The more precisely you can articulate what you want from him or her, usually the better results. If you haven’t, I recommend you Google “How to Find a Good Therapist. ” A good therapist can be worth their weight in gold. A bad therapist can be worse than no therapist.
His behavior is demeaning. Religion can be very convenient to hide behind rather than confront unpleasant issues. If you’re in a community where the default position is “sanctity of marriage,” you may not find many allies. And, unless you’re capable and willing to challenge the establishment on matters of doctrine, there’s a good chance you’ll get steamrolled.
“Our children are older teens and adults, and refuse to offer any support or opinion, other than since nothing physical happened, I should let it go and get over it. ”
Be really careful with this. Don’t put your kids in the position of taking sides. It’s not fair to them and you may not like their choice if you do. If you choose to leave, at some point you’ll need to share it with them. Be honest but direct. You found his behavior unacceptable and weren’t able to reconcile it. Your happiness is as important as his and you refuse to live 1/2-1/3 of your life with a man whose head space is occupied by another woman. That could come with consequences like they see you as the villain and cut you out. From what you said, he’s pretty adept at appearing to doing the right thing and people might believe him. They already think this isn’t all that big a deal.
Scharnhorst, two things keep being said to me: it is normal for people (especially coworkers) to be attracted to one another and as long as it is just fantasies, they don’t matter. While I understand that yes, obviously, we encounter people to whom we are attracted (but I would think some things about them would need to be true- not imposed upon them) and although random thoughts and fantasies are normal, it’s the rumination or inability to see the reality that makes the fantasizing worse. I have also been told thoughts are not actions, also true. But no one seems to understand that this is out of character for him, and there was a time when he made a choice to continue to pursue this line of thinking.
He blames this on hormone replacement therapy, by saying that he was more aware of women at this time and had more fantasies in general, however, he can’t name anyone else. All the emphasis is on this one person, who had three things: a physical presence in the building; average appearance; and manners (She spoke cordially to him a few times a day). I have also been told that just speaking cordially to him could have been enough to cause this ‘attraction’, because it happened several times a days for more than a year, and minimum exposure was all that was needed. So, I am being led to believe that basically no nice woman could speak to him without an attraction forming, and that’s crazy. As people, we should be able to work and function along others without thinking they are interested in us sexually or otherwise. I know this to be true. Apparently, I am somewhat unreasonable in this way of thinking, particularly according to my husband and clergy.
If I leave him, not only will he probably just move on, but yes, my children may side with him and blame me for breaking up our home. Two of them have already said as much, and frankly, I don’t know that I am strong enough to start over. I’m miserable with him, but I do still love him, even though now I see that I settled into this role of wife and mother without much thought of my own happiness.
I put myself through school- first undergrad, then graduate school, often working multiple jobs (No, he didn’t help, except with the kids), and I know that in many ways he feels inferior to me because of my education and career. I basically support our family anyway, and so, I realize that I could stand alone. I feel that nothing I did as good enough, then he jumped ship and ran toward the first woman he could impose his ideals upon, who didn’t question him like I did. Of course, it was all in his head, but still.
I spoke with my medical doctor recently, and he suggested a local counselor, but I will use Google to find someone reputable in the next town (We live outside a major city, but the commute will be worth it to find someone outside of our community.) Please tell me that I don’t just have a ‘chip on my shoulder’, because my husband found someone twenty pounds thinner and nicer, and I just can’t handle that he liked someone besides me. There are days I doubt my ability to see things clearly.
“Apparently, I am somewhat unreasonable in this way of thinking, particularly according to my husband and clergy.”
WHAT?! He is busting your marriage vows, left, right and center and YOU are the problem for holding him accountable? No. He is abusing you and now you are being abused in the name of religion by him and your faith community. He may not have committed adultery (yet) but he most assuredly is coveting another woman and she is on the brink of becoming a wife which was spelled out in the commandment.
You get to decide what is acceptable behavior. You do NOT have to tolerate this and if your kids blame you for standing up for yourself and being treated with honor and integrity then they have a lot of maturing yet to do.
I don’t know where my post went, but I suggest reading:
https://mustbethistalltoride.com/2014/02/26/an-open-letter-to-shitty-husbands-vol-6/
“How do I feel when my husband isn’t assertive in making decisions, in taking care of the home, in planning and decision making for our family??? Gosh—I feel like I do every day. Worthless… oh yeah… and tired… and alone.”
Also http://www.chumplady.com You don’t have to divorce, but you do need to stand up and make it clear that this isn’t going to fly.
For info: all comments with more than one link get automoderated (and so have to wait until the next time I’m free to log in and check the queue).
“For info: all comments with more than one link get automoderated (and so have to wait until the next time I’m free to log in and check the queue).”
I know that has been said more than once, but I keep forgetting it. Sorry, Dr. L. I need to tighten the bolts in my neck and possibly get another cup of coffee. 😉
Lee, the post about ‘shitty’ husbands made me cry, almost from the first sentence or two. I am that wife who has just carried the load, because someone had to. I think that has what made this situation worse. I felt I did everything right, although I did voice complaints to my husband, he always just thought I was being demanding. He worked at the same plant for thirty years, and the only woman who ever worked there embodied all of the “submissive” qualities I didn’t, and he was drawn to her. The lack of loyalty, I think, is my biggest problem. I can understand an honest attraction between two adults who form a bond in the workplace, but a needy midlifer who latches onto the only female he speaks to seems so weak.
“I am that wife who has just carried the load, because someone had to”
Meredith –
Me too. From what you had posted I figured we probably had a fair amount of overlap.
Look at it this way, someone who is submissive is someone who is “easy”. There is no effort needed on his part – except he doesn’t realize what it really means is that he would very much have to step up in order to carry the load that it sounds like his faith expects him to carry.
“I think that has what made this situation worse.”
Eh – yes and no. You told him you needed help but at some point SOMEONE has to be an adult. So while he has learned helplessness going on (I suspect), and quite possibly resentment for your personal achievements, he has also been on the receiving end of your efforts. A petty person who not only bites the hand that fed the family, but also the same hand that rocked the cradle.
It’s not a fun place to be. I spent a lot of time in therapy through the years. I feel it was money and time well-spent on me. I have my fingers, toes and eyes crossed that you find a therapist who can help you. It may or may not be the first one you speak with either. It may take a few recommendations.
“…a needy midlifer who latches onto the only female he speaks to seems so weak.”
You are a solid chocolate bunny. He sounds like a hollow one. They are often very prettily decorated, or talk a good game but they are HOLLOW. He can either do the work of piping in the ganache for himself or not. But if he’s going to continue to be jealous or bitter that you are solid chocolate (ignore the nibbles!) – that is on him.
Regardless of what happens, I’m rooting for you Meredith.
Lee, thank you for the support. It means a lot. I can really appreciate the solid and hollow bunny analysis. Do you think in my situation I can blame him, if either his midlife/ hormones were out of whack? I think I know the answer. The history shows that maybe as I became more and more independent, he became more needy. Still, was this about the woman or him? Was it inevitable as he grew older and less confident or am I a bitter, disgruntled wife who jealous of another woman? Still, the level of story building he put into this fantasy is really alarming, even for a needy narcissist. I’m torn between feeling sorry for him and disgusted by him. Our oldest child, who does not get along well with him because he has broken from so many of our traditional views, says that his dad was like the movie character “The Blob” and just latched onto whoever he could, and it could have happened anytime he was around anyone long enough.
I can see the truth in that too. Thank you again for the kind comments and help!
Meredith –
Stand back from the situation a bit. Pretend you are observing him from “over there”.
What kind of person do you see? Do you love HIM, or do you love who he was, or who you made him out to be in your mind? Is this a matter of “sunk costs”? If he never changes (and doesn’t leave) – are you going to be happy living with him for 20+ more years?
What kind of person WANTS to set up their spouse to be jealous of another? How is that part of the wedding vows? That simply isn’t healthy and it’s done to demoralize you and knock you down to (his) level. That’s very ugly behavior. The sort of thing that would infuriate you if you saw someone doing it to your kids or your best friend – right?
How are you bitter? He isn’t behaving the way he promised to behave when he married you. He isn’t loving and cherishing you. He isn’t even “forsaking all others” when he tells you that, well, you know – if you weren’t such an unreasonable BITCH about it, he wouldn’t have fallen for the sweet young thing.
Fantasies are a lot easier to manage than real life. Real people aren’t security objects – or they aren’t supposed to be. We exist separate and apart from others. Even our spouses and children.
“Our oldest child, who does not get along well with him because he has broken from so many of our traditional views, says that his dad was like the movie character “The Blob” and just latched onto whoever he could, and it could have happened anytime he was around anyone long enough.”
That also sounds like someone with Borderline Personality Disorder. They have no core-self and they define themselves in relation to whomever they fancy or want to impress AT THE TIME. More women than men are diagnosed with BPD but that doesn’t mean there aren’t as many men who have the problem. It tends to present slightly differently and often it isn’t recognized as such.
Anyway, don’t sell yourself short. Or him. If he doesn’t want to be your partner, or if he really wants to be The Boss in your marriage, then he has to step up. I don’t know what he is supposed to do or appear to be doing in order to make the mark in his/your religion but he sounds like he has been falling short for quite some time.
Also read up on The Drama Triangle by Dr. Stephen Karpman. I think Lynne Forrest still has a nice summary of it up, also Lynne Namka. There are many others who have discussed it too. Dr. Karpman is still alive and has a website too.
https://www.lynneforrest.com/articles/2008/06/the-faces-of-victim/
https://lynnenamka.com/anger-management/anger-management-articles/drama-triangle/
You don’t have to REACT to this. In fact, I would suggest being very proactive. Look out for yourself. Consult a few attorneys who specialize in family law. Start with the ones who offer a free initial consultation. Find out what you can expect, legally, if you separate or divorce. Don’t discuss it with him. He is not your ally at this time. Clearly your faith community has a vested interest in you staying stuck (they are overlooking the commandment not to covet another!) and blaming you for HIS behavior. I distrust that outlook.
Have you tried out Chump Lady yet? The book is a fast read and you may find it at the local library. If not, it’s inexpensive. You can read it at work as well as visiting the web site.
Again – you need to take care of yourself. The cheese has slid off of his cracker. Protect yourself, the kids and the assets.
Best wishes to you and yours.
Meredith,
It may be time to play “The Fairy Tale Ending Game.” In this game you flat out ask him, “If you could write your Fairy Tale Ending to this, what would it be?” It’s better if you can phrase the questions as “yes” or “no.” You ask the first question and then you come back with, “Will this give you what you want? (Y/N) Will it make you happy?” (Y/N) Done correctly, you can bat him back and forth like a ping pong ball. Your SO sounds like he has a Passive-Aggressive streak in him. PAs can be a real pain to deal with but they can be dealt with.
A big part of this game is your ability to distinguish an answer from a response. All answers are responses but not all responses are answers. Answers close questions. If the question remains when he’s done talking, he gave you a response. “I don’t know” is a perfectly valid response but it’s never an answer. PAs hate when you try to pin them down.
One thing I have to say about LO #2 is that when I asked her a straight question, she gave me a straight answer. It may not have been the answer I was hoping for but it was an answer I could work with.
See what he says and go from there.
Meredith –
Stand back from the situation a bit. Pretend you are observing him from “over there”.
What kind of person do you see? Do you love HIM, or do you love who he was, or who you made him out to be in your mind? Is this a matter of “sunk costs”? If he never changes (and doesn’t leave) – are you going to be happy living with him for 20+ more years?
What kind of person WANTS to set up their spouse to be jealous of another? How is that part of the wedding vows? That simply isn’t healthy and it’s done to demoralize you and knock you down to (his) level. That’s very ugly behavior. The sort of thing that would infuriate you if you saw someone doing it to your kids or your best friend – right?
How are you bitter? He isn’t behaving the way he promised to behave when he married you. He isn’t loving and cherishing you. He isn’t even “forsaking all others” when he tells you that, well, you know – if you weren’t such an unreasonable BITCH about it, he wouldn’t have fallen for the sweet young thing.
Fantasies are a lot easier to manage than real life. Real people aren’t security objects – or they aren’t supposed to be. We exist separate and apart from others. Even our spouses and children.
“Our oldest child, who does not get along well with him because he has broken from so many of our traditional views, says that his dad was like the movie character “The Blob” and just latched onto whoever he could, and it could have happened anytime he was around anyone long enough.”
That also sounds like someone with Borderline Personality Disorder. They have no core-self and they define themselves in relation to whomever they fancy or want to impress AT THE TIME. More women than men are diagnosed with BPD but that doesn’t mean there aren’t as many men who have the problem. It tends to present slightly differently and often it isn’t recognized as such.
Anyway, don’t sell yourself short. Or him. If he doesn’t want to be your partner, or if he really wants to be The Boss in your marriage, then he has to step up. I don’t know what he is supposed to do or appear to be doing in order to make the mark in his/your religion but he sounds like he has been falling short for quite some time.
Also read up on The Drama Triangle by Dr. Stephen Karpman. I think Lynne Forrest still has a nice summary of it up, also Lynne Namka. There are many others who have discussed it too. Dr. Karpman is still alive and has a website too.
https://www.lynneforrest.com/articles/2008/06/the-faces-of-victim/
You don’t have to REACT to this. In fact, I would suggest being very proactive. Look out for yourself. Consult a few attorneys who specialize in family law. Start with the ones who offer a free initial consultation. Find out what you can expect, legally, if you separate or divorce. Don’t discuss it with him. He is not your ally at this time. Clearly your faith community has a vested interest in you staying stuck (they are overlooking the commandment not to covet another!) and blaming you for HIS behavior. I distrust that outlook.
Have you tried out Chump Lady yet? The book is a fast read and you may find it at the local library. If not, it’s inexpensive. You can read it at work as well as visiting the web site.
Again – you need to take care of yourself. The cheese has slid off of his cracker. Protect yourself, the kids and the assets.
Best wishes to you and yours.
Here’s another take on the Drama Triangle by another Lynne!
https://lynnenamka.com/anger-management/anger-management-articles/drama-triangle/
Also consider finding Anne Sheffield’s book, “Depression Fallout”. She was a lovely person and I remember when she was alive and active on her board. Taking care of yourself is very important.
Meredith,
Here’s another question to ask him, “What do you want from me?”
I asked LO #2 that question twice. She said:
“I just want to stop feeling miserable all the time.”
“You’re still my best friend.”
Neither of those are answers. On the remote chance she ever does successfully engage me, I’ll ask her a third time.
Scharnhorst, I agree that he is very passive aggressive, and reflecting on the past, he has always used my feelings of guilt to get me to agree to things. For example, when I would tell him I didn’t want to go on a vacation with his mother, he would say ” Well, then the kids won’t get a vacation, because we can’t afford to go on our own,” or I would work extra hours or take a second job to pay for our own. I made an appointment today to see a therapist in a couple of days, based on your suggestion of using Google. He is located about 20-30 minutes from home, so getting away from my immediate area will be more comfortable. No, I haven’t looked The Chump Lady, but I will later this evening. I feel that I would have been fine living my life, as it was because 1.) I married at 20 and didn’t know better, and 2.) I have never felt that I deserved much. I have always believed that because he loved me (and I think he does, as much as he can), it was enough.
Lee, I have never thought of my husband being especially clever, especially with money or resources, because guess what, he always stuck me with taking care of them. But I do see the need to maybe start quietly making some legal decisions for my two underage children and finances. Strangely, I had wondered about Borderline Personality Disorder when I was trying to figure out what was going with him. Like I said though, I know I am in a predicament where I don’t know life without him, and don’t think I can ever see myself putting the ‘bullet back in the gun”, now that the “attraction” has surfaced.
Meredith –
There is a lot of helpful advice, recommendations and anecdotes being offered. You can’t possibly read and absorb it all in one night, or in one go. Then there is figuring out what works for you!
It is unlikely you have to make any big decisions tonight. Or by next Monday.
If you can gather ALL of your financial info together, make multiple copies and have them in safe places off-site by the end of the month, that may be worthwhile. Tax filings, bank statements, 401K statements, brokerage accounts, run a credit check on yourself too.
Carve out some quiet time solely for yourself. You have a lot to process and it is time to make decisions that SUIT YOU.
Dr. Limerance, Lee, and Scharnhorst,
There is no way to thank you enough for the comments and encouragement you have given me the last few days. I spent most of the weekend and yesterday considering what my next move will be in my marriage, and your support has been a lifeline. If this situation had not developed between my husband and his LO, I would have be content to live my life, rolling along without trepidation. When these issues came to light, I was forced to see my husband maybe as not just a ‘good’ guy, who provided me with a ‘good enough’ marriage, but as flawed–maybe really flawed.
If we had reached midlife and my husband was already considering roads not taken, and dropped this convenient by proximity person into this fantasy world, that’s one issue. If my husband met something, was truly attracted to the attributes of the person and formed a bond (even though only in his mind) and created the fantasy world around HER specifically, that something different. I have been thinking about the ‘chicken or the egg’ reference Dr.Limerance made, and to me it does matter. If the limerance or dependence on this person could have been for any bystander on the aisle, I can forgive much easier. I know that my husband never made any overtures toward this woman or planned to, according to him. He never wanted to date her or even hold her hand, but his need to believe that this was a mutual relationship is what is so troubling.
So, can you be attracted to someone you don’t really seek opportunities to be around? Can you feel that you are simply fantasizing about a different life with someone you perceive as nice, just as a source of escape and nothing more? Can it move from something that simple, then become limerance under circumstances he sees as her barriers (her engagement)? How do you go from telling me you might have been in love with a stranger to “no, I was just calling the the wrong thing?”
The truth is I can’t get straight answers from my husband. Sometimes, I know he is minimizing what was going on in his brain, and sometimes, he slips and without meaning to letting them, some of the ‘crazy thoughts’ seep out. I don’t think he can tell me what he was really thinking, because he doesn’t honestly know and lacks the emotional depth to express it. I do believe, Lee, that he in many ways he is like “The Blob” or an organism attaching himself to this woman for as long as he needed to reach a state of homeostasis for the day, just enough contact to meet that day’s daily requirement, for him to take and ruminate on. Then coming back the next day for just enough “thank yous’ or “Good mornings” to get the fix he needed, and it varied from day to day–month to month. I don’t think he did it on purpose, but it has turned my world upside down. If he didn’t do it on purpose on this midlife neediness for attention and respect incited this whole thing, I can move forward. If he was just a wolf in sheep’s clothing, I don’t think I can. I start therapy Thursday and starting journaling yesterday (I used to do it, but had gotten to busy). Any suggestions as to how to reconcile my head with my heart (I’m midlife too, and so maybe I am unsure as to where I want to go from here partly due to that.)
Meredith,
I’ll take a shot at a few things.
“So, can you be attracted to someone you don’t really seek opportunities to be around? ”
Yes, you can very attracted to someone you really don’t seek opportunities to be around. The most credible threat to my marriage wasn’t either LO, it was a co-worker. She was smart, attractive, funny and we aligned on things like socio-economic status, politics, and religion. She was easy to be around. We worked on the same project. She didn’t give off the faintest hint of glimmer. She was never a “source of escape” the way LO #4 was. If you read my story, LO #4 played into my existing vulnerability. I got closer to LO #4 than I should have because I thought a woman 2500 miles away who I never actually met and was in a relationship was safe. I knew my coworker wasn’t safe. I attached to LO #4 entirely virtually. I could see my coworker 5 days/week if I wanted to. I knew I didn’t want to get too close to my coworker. If I had gone back on the market while she was around, she’d have been #1 on my list.
In all my years of marriage, she is the only woman I ever met after hours and my wife was aware of it. I got a vibe from her and tested the boundary a little. What took me totally by surprise was that when she told me she was leaving, my first impulse was to kiss her in the lobby. I didn’t but I wondered where that idea came from. My wife never considered my coworker a threat but the “leakage” from the cognitive dissonance I had with LO #4 got my wife’s attention. So, yeah, it happens.
“Any suggestions as to how to reconcile my head with my heart (I’m midlife too, and so maybe I am unsure as to where I want to go from here partly due to that.)”
This is something to discuss with the therapist. In the meantime, ask yourself,
1. Is SO the person I want coming home to me for the next 30 years?
2. Is SO the person I want to crawl into bed with for the next 30 year?
3. Is SO the person I want to grow old with?
4. Do I trust my SO?
If the answers to any of those is anything other than “yes,” you have 3 choices:
1. Try to turn the answers into “Yes.” Your SO has to be a partner in that.
2. Resign yourself and let things go on as they are.
3. Leave and seek happiness as you see it.
Meredith –
We are all flawed, but you get to decide what you are willing to embrace, put up with and set aside.
If he isn’t trustworthy (on top of actively trying to tear you down so he can fulfill a religious mandate), that is something else entirely. I truly want that to stop for your sake. As well as your kids. I don’t feel that a twig and berries is what makes a leader in any venue whatsoever. Respect and leadership are earned – not given.
“Can it move from something that simple, then become limerance under circumstances he sees as her barriers (her engagement)?”
Why is it her engagement/marriage that is stopping him rather than his own? That bothers me and that he and your faith community appear to be blaming you for HIS behavior sets my teeth on edge. If you are cool with it, that’s fine of course.
Now is a very good time to be very quiet and observe what he does while you think about the situation now and down the line. If he says mean things, pay attention. If he says nice things but treats you badly – pay attention!
Can you go somewhere to get a good massage? A real one, not the sketchy kind. Sometimes being touched in a relaxing setting by someone who wants you to feel good afterward can really make a difference. Spring for an hour if you can. I had one *mumbles* ago and the massage therapist is also an R.N. It. Was. Heavenly! You deserve at least one hour to try and work out the lumps and bumps from wherever you tend to carry tension.
“Due to religious convictions, he said he wouldn’t have cheated, even if he had the chance,”
Oh Meredith – I want to believe that but very religious people cheat too. Very married people, with children, who have affairs with a member of their congregation; very married people with very firmly held beliefs who nevertheless drop their garments to the floor.
That doesn’t mean he did, or he will, but very religious people haven’t cornered the market on fidelity. Not by a long stretch.
How does he honor and cherish YOU? How does he strengthen YOU and your marriage?
“Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect…” 1 -Peter 3:7
“Do not be harsh with your wife.” -Colossians 3:19
“Do not be captivated by other women.” -Proverbs 5:20
“Call your wife ‘blessed’ and praise her.” -Proverbs 31: 28-29
“Honor your marriage; keep it pure by remaining true to your wife in every way.” Hebrews 13:4
All other relationships come second to his wife.
He has responsibilities to you – has he embraced them or has he sidestepped them in favor of telling you that he’s the boss?
Anyway, there is a lot for you to think about. I say take a pause for the cause. Rather than you dancing around to prove that you are worthy of him, he needs to step up and demonstrate that he has done more than phone it in to his marriage with you.
You may benefit from doing more listening and observing and less reading of the tea leaves.
So Meredith’s posts are hard to read–so much pain. Everyone’s replies are very, very helpful. I appreciate Lee’s posts especially; Lee’s very tough (as she should be) on us limerents, but very tender towards suffering SOs. That’s great.
I’m in a similar faith community and I know what it’s like from the inside. I also know some of what a husband might expect. We men can misinterpret Biblical mandates (mandate, see what i did there?) to mean that submission is solely a feminine attribute — and somehow we can command every kind of response from our wives as if they’re a robot, merely existing to fulfill our every wish and desire.
Especially sexually.
So for me, I married a fiery first-born redhead who is a determined force of nature. She’s not very submissive in any arena unless she’s not feeling confident.
So I have to earn everything I get from her. But that means that when I get something, she really really means it and I really really value it.
So it’s kinda actually great, because I have a sense of accomplishment when she pays me attention and glimmers at me. Plus, she’s super-low maintenance and I like the fact that I can do my own thing lots of the time and I get a lot of independence.
But back to Meredith. In my fantasies when I’m not engaged in my marriage, I have a wife who is there for my fulfillment and it doesn’t feel like I have to impress her to get what I want.
MY theory is that we wear pathways in our brains via our fantasies. Then a LO comes along who fits that fantasy and we become limerent for them. Even when they don’t fit the fantasy perfectly, we apply our limerent template over the LO, and it activates the limerence monster. The longer we’ve fantasized about that person we want, the stronger the LE is because it activates the robust network in our brains that is already there waiting, ready to go.
I think Meredith’s spouse has fantasized about having/owning a ‘submissive’ SO for a long, long time. Eventually the neural pathways grew so strong that limerence sprang to life with the first handy object.
He’s mentally sick, but he’s still responsible for his own thoughts and actions. “For it is God’s will that you should be holy: You must abstain from sexual immorality; each of you must know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not in lustful passion like the Gentiles who do not know God…”
Meredith, you’re able to do this. You DO know God, and you know that God will act in this situation. You’re not alone.
Interesting. In the BDSM community, the sub is the one with the most control because when a sub uses the safe word – IT STOPS. Assuming both adults are truly committed to the rules. Without consent, it is abuse.
What Meredith has described sounds to me as though he wants to forever be a hero/rescuer with a lot of overlap with persecutor, which means someone has to be a victim. Eternally beholding, endlessly grateful.
Picure a triangle balanced on its point (victim) and the other two in the air (rescuer & persecutor). It isn’t healthy for anyone.
“More about the selfishness of limerents and their objectification of other people.”
Lee, are you saying we’re all selfish and bad people or is this just misworded to a worryingly hyperbolic extent?
Actually, I was paraphrasing Lee, but I’ll say it: married limerents can act very selfishly, and we do objectify our limerent objects.
That doesn’t mean non-limerents aren’t selfish, or that all limerents are always selfish, but basic self-awareness should mean you recognise that everyone has the capacity for selfishness.
Edited to add: and we’re also all bad people, and good people. It’s our actions that determine whether we do more good or more bad.
All right, thanks for clearing that up.
I would agree to actions I made appearing selfish but I dont believe that I had any control over the events that transpired over the last 2 years. Also is this going to happen again? Lo 2 and 3? Cuz that was brutal and nothing my previous 43 yrs prepared me for.
Hi Morgan,
I’m struck by your comment that you had no control over events. That’s quite a surprising claim. What happened? Why did you lose all self determination?
I know limerence can feel like an irresistible force, but we can’t surrender all our will, surely?
My LO was/is almost 20 years younger, and so I recognise a number of those drivers now, albeit I didn’t to begin with.
A lot of the ingredients that form an LE would also be the same that drive a mid life crisis affair. Now not all people that have affairs are limerent, if only 5% of the population suffer from it, as supposedly 25% of married men have affairs. So what actually leads to it manifesting as an LE rather than affair? The subconscious choosing an “unavailable” LO? Maybe our own morals? Maybe nature of our personalities that lead us to prefer fantasy over reality?
I’m 54, female, and my male LO is almost 60. So he’s older than me chronologically, but in personality he comes across as quite boyish and I see him as a peer. And he’s half a generation younger than my almost 72-year-old SO. In a way, then, I have that ‘younger’ thing going on with my LO too. Moreover, I just realized the other day how closely LO resembles — in looks, demeanor, and physical presence — the guy whom I had a crush on when I was 16 and who gave me an excellent introduction to the world of romantic attraction and physical love. The chemistry sizzled but there were social barriers to forming a long-term bond, so we went our separate ways. The chemistry with my current LO is eerily similar to that with my long-ago crush. So I think that with my classic mid-life stressors of parental illness, bereavement, sibling illness with increased responsibility on me, loss of libido by my SO, increased emotional demands at my job, and chronic neglect of self-care, I was a sitting duck for some sort of desire to be 16 again, enjoying the novelty and sky-high euphoria (which I remember like it was yesterday) of focused, caring romantic attention from a devastatingly handsome guy. And maybe my limerent self wants to consummate what had to be left unconsummated back then. I am also learning
more about a clinical perspective on my LE as an obsessive disorder, and considering the ‘forbidden fruit’ syndrome as symptomatic of issues with self-esteem and excessive need for external validation. For sure I have a great weakness in that area, particularly in relation to romantic love, so I see more clearly how the attractions to both my old crush and my current LO zeroed in precisely on that weakness.
Yesterday I wrote out for myself:
I am not 16. It is not 1981.
LO [name] is not my old crush [name].
Easy, right?
But I’m pretty sure that this logical, reality-based news flash has yet to sink in with my limerent self.
At least I’m clear now that I need to work on my self-esteem and reduce my dependence on external validation in matters of the heart. One thing the LE is teaching me is that such work on oneself, far from being unduly self-centered or self-absorbed, is mission-critical to character development so as to not harm people and to demonstrate true respect for people close to me.
No midlife crisis for me im 31 but crisis from overburden life – young kids demanding job loss of desire for So … and i feel like im 16 as well having a crush with a guy that I cant be with due to social barriers..looking for external validation from him.
And one other thing lo is teaching me is that you can be in your early thirty and still have fun. His world is exciting and tempting
“if we were forced to state what we really wanted, it would be to hang out with LO until the limerence burned out, at which point we’d go back to our spouses. Like a galactically selfish holiday. ”
Spot on as usual, Dr. L. Mind you, right now I find current LO endlessly fascinating, and in my younger years would have interpreted that as a sign of cosmic links or some other silly crap, but honestly? Yeah, sooner or later many traits of this LO would bore and I would be happy to set him aside and go back to my usual life and my amazing SO.
And yes to the self-doubt and the ennui. Additionally for me: the regret on the roads not taken, on having been a “good girl” in my teens and early 20s and missing out on hot adventures and…sleeping around, basically.
Selfish or not, if someone invents a time and alternative-universe machine, I’m in. Then all this ridiculousness might be done for good.
Me too, I regret being such a good girl when I was young now. I feel like for the first time in my life, I am madly and passionately in love. I have never had amazing sex or even “made love” But Now it all seems so possible and irresistible. I’ve been married for 15 years, it was easy and secure and checked all the boxes. I didn’t know I was settling. Until now. I never saw this happening…..I never had any crush on anyone else until 2 years ago. Am I in a phase that will end eventually? I’m scared the fog and warped perspective could drive me to do something stupid and ruin my life. I’m also scared doing nothing and staying put could ruin my life and be unfair to my SO. This is so hard.
Hi L. I feel very similarly, like this is my last chance in life to experience passionate love and gut twisting desire for someone lovely that I think might actually feel the same for me. I have never felt this powerfully for someone before. My limerence is so very seductive that I really struggle to deny myself.
What stops me? My husband was an LO 17 years ago. The LE ended 1-2 years into the relationship. It became just as you describe – easy, safe, secure and the best of friends. We don’t even really bother with sex any more as the desire has gone completely. But we love each other in a real, look-out-for-each-other-forever kind of way, we are happy together and we have fun. The passionate, lusty, euphoric love of limerence just does not last, it is an illusion of love based on wants, not a real long term attached love based more on giving.
When I was young and single, I ended up in bed with another LO once. Someone I really believed I was madly in love with. It was among the most indifferent sex I have ever had! Instant end of LE. i.e. an LE is no guarantee that the sex will be any good – the reality rarely matches up with the fantasy.
Why do you feel you are settling for SO?
Allie,
“We don’t even really bother with sex any more as the desire has gone completely.”
If you don’t mind me asking, is that a decision both of you made? I read another blog and there’s a male poster who goes on about how important sex is for men and how women lose desire in marriage … and I just think: I don’t care if Johnny Depp, circa 2003, dressed in his pirate costume, showed up at my door, there is no one I’d want to have sex with several times a week for the rest of my days.
“there is no one I’d want to have sex with several times a week for the rest of my days.” Yup I agree with that completely!
No decision was made exactly and the “why” is complex. They key issue is the sex is crap and I don’t want to endure crap sex. My SO can’t be arsed to fix that problem (and it is with him) and his aging libido does nothing to motivate him, despite his promises. That was OK while my kids were younger as my libido left the building for a while too, but it is now back with a vengeance. I would like an open relationship but SO is not prepared to take that risk.
This issue is all discussed and understood between us, and there is no anger or hurt around it as we are both very pragmatic and open minded.
Allie,
” … but it is now back with a vengeance.”
Did it come back when you met your LO? That’s when mine came back. It will also return a bit if I meet someone I like but am maybe not limerent for (happens rarely). But otherwise it has left the building. And I’m ok with that, actually. I could have written “War and Peace, Part 2” in the amount time I wasted chasing it around.
I heard somewhere that people’s libido often increases again in middle age. That is definitely something I have experienced, but part of it for me was due to improved health, fitness and weight loss. For men, testosterone does decline naturally with age, but there are things we can do to reverse the decline like getting enough sleep, losing weight, supplementing with things like zinc, vitamin D and magnesium, working out with weights and (so I’ve heard) consuming whey protein for some reason (not sure I believe that one, but who knows?). Some men find that hormone replacement therapy can help, although that does have risks associated with it.
Yes, I think my improved libido is mostly due to my LE.
But it did start before that, probably as my kids have become older, some of my focus in life has naturally shifted away from them and back to myself. Like you VL, hormones are also a factor for me – I have read that peri-menopausal hormonal fluctuation can cause an increase in libido.
Allie,
“I have read that peri-menopausal hormonal fluctuation can cause an increase in libido.”
Mine died once I hit peri-menopause. However, when I hit 40, it spiked … and that was also the year I met my LO. I also think the death of my sex drive has something to do with aging. I still looked pretty good at 40. But the early 50s have done a number on me. That’s why, when I see young women, I want to grab them and say: DO EVERYTHING NOW. You will never look this good again or have all of these people around you who are available. Date several Mr. Inappropriate, dance on some tables, drink too much, take that dead-end job just because it’s fun. You will never have these opportunities again.
Classic midlife episode here with an LO 14 years younger than me. I think some of the attraction is that LO reminds me of my wife in our early days together. Before parenthood and the pressure of midlife began to prise us apart. LO offers fresh, fun conversations and it’s nice to talk to someone who seems interested in you rather than whether you’ve put the rubbish out. It’s escapism really and I’m probably selfish for wanting and enjoying the attention.
Attention and validation that we are still attractive, yes?
What Royce said above!
My LO is 2 years younger than me but 11 yrs younger than my SO. I am in my mid 40’s.
I enjoy the attention from LO and selfishly wallow and wrap myself in the attraction I feel for him. It puts a spring in my step and a spark in my life, that’s probably the only two positives I get out of my limerence…………
Quoted for the truth: “LO offers fresh, fun conversations and it’s nice to talk to someone who seems interested in you rather than whether you’ve put the rubbish out.” This is exactly what it’s like for me and, like you Lee-Anne, I enjoy the attention and validation from LO and it puts a spring in my step and a spark in my life, as well. As for that being the “only two positives” we get, those are pretty good positives, though right? Unfortunately, as I know now, those positives are offset by the myriad of negatives of an LE: obsessive thoughts, anxiety, depression, loss of self-confidence, emotional withdrawal from SO, etc.
Clearly, in ANY context, the experience of limerence is one that can accurately be characterized as an involuntary pathological condition of magnified & distorted emotional response rooted in past trauma. Classic limerence is a highly polarized state of being, at once euphoric and terrifying. While it is intensely obsessive-compulsive, it is not the same as infatuation which does not typically have the fear of rejection flip-side seen in limerence. The all encompassing and overwhelming intensity of limerence which can completely take over and shut down a person is NOT a welcome or holistically “positive” experience like infatuation, which typically only knows desire and is not divided against itself with the nagging doubt, confusion, and uncertainty present in limerence. While the romantic “high” of infatuation is welcome and even sought by some, it is highly doubtful that the debilitating dark side of limerence is consciously sought by anyone. As for a connection to mid-life crisis, I think this is possible but only partially; while many desire to feel 25 again at age 40, 50, or older, and chase the elusive dragon of youth through sexual/romantic pursuits, it can be reasonably presumed that few if any are looking for the torturous complications and immobilizing anxiety that comes with classic limerence.
“while many desire to feel 25 again at age 40, 50, or older, and chase the elusive dragon of youth through sexual/romantic pursuits, it can be reasonably presumed that few if any are looking for the torturous complications and immobilizing anxiety that comes with classic limerence.”
I would posit that when you do this, “chase the elusive dragon of youth through sexual/romantic pursuits” then you shouldn’t be surprised by the consequences, ” torturous complications and immobilizing anxiety”. At least when you are already partnered or married to someone else. 😉
The really irrational part about significant age differences emerges when one imagines that relationship in a decade or two. In my case, the 20-yr difference between me and my LO looks pretty bad when I’m a fading 75-yr-old and she’s a still energetic, still working 56-yr-old. Then, just when I need assistance and comfort, she’s getting limerence for the hot younger contractor who is repairing the porch, or she’s being hit on by younger guys at the office who notice all her wealth (which she has acquired from me!) I would have traded some few years of supposed happiness for a final twilight period of bitterness, rejection, and regret.
I read one of these comments from a limerent lady who’s SO is 22 years older and has a failing libido. That guy would be me! She’s now limerent for guys her own age who turn her on in many ways, and her SO is fading to irrelevance.
The other, and far more consequential part–what I owe my own wife, who dedicated her ‘best’ years to producing and raising my offspring. I value every stretch mark, every bit of flab or sag due to the multiple pregnancies she underwent for me and my family’s happiness. No other guy will ever feel the same way about her commitment and her body that I do. So how could I ever leave her for some younger thing who hasn’t made the same sacrifices for me?
That’s what makes me saddest about experiencing limerence. It’s wrong on so many levels, and unfair to my SO as well as my own future happiness.
Fortunately, the LC with my LO has been quite helpful, and I’m emerging from the stupidity more each day.
“Middle Age Crazy (1980),” with Bruce Dern and Ann-Margaret was billed as a comedy. It’s an incredibly sad and poignant movie. It’s also next to impossible to find. I was 24 and single when it came out. I doubt I would have seen it alone and I don’t remember taking anyone. I likely saw it a few years later as one of the dozens of movies I watched underway on the sub. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S4mifoezCw
If you’re contemplating taking things over the line, hunt down the movie and watch it first.
Anyway, these aren’t the best clips. The scene where everything comes to a head isn’t out there but it’s so powerful. Ann-Margaret figures it out and when the confrontation occurs, she said she screws a cop to get out of a traffic ticket. I don’t remember if they’re able to work it out or not but there’s not doubt there’s a permanent rift between them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXyuv3-n-uM
In today’s episode of “Scharnhorst Ponders the Metaphysical…”
There are decisions we make that can profoundly affect our lives or the lives of others. There are decisions other people make that can profoundly affect our lives. We can never know for certain what would have happened if we or someone else had made a different decision. Things might be better, they might be worse, or maybe there would have been no effect at all. The vast majority of the decisions we make fall into the last category. Or, do they?
In 1981, I was attracted to a girl who wasn’t interested in me. She was very gracious in her goodbye. A month after I met LO #2, I got a letter from her saying she thought it over and asked if we could renew the acquaintance. I didn’t respond to her. “What if” I had? “What if” I’d picked up on her and dropped LO #2 before we got started? She got married, divorced, and became an ordained Zen priest.
6 years ago, LO #2 was single and sent me a FB friend request. I declined it and if LO #2 ever looked again, she knows I’m married to the woman she crossed paths with 30 years ago. Today, she’s married to another man. “What if” I’d accepted that friend request? Would that have altered anyone’s destiny?
Then again, there are apparently random events that could have had a profound effect on our lives. We’ll never know.
The Saturday after Thanksgiving, 1979, I was in Orlando airport chatting up a gorgeous travel agent from Titusville. She gave me her card and told me to call her when I got back. I lost the card. “What if” I hadn’t? Probably nothing, but….
In the summer of 1980, I was in Barclay’s in Saratoga Springs, NY. Same thing. I was talking to a second grade teacher and she gave me her number. I lost it. “What if” I hadn’t. Again, probably nothing….
“What ifs?” don’t have to be tinged with regret. At some point, we have enough life behind us to the point we can look back and wonder about some things. It’s not all bad.
That whole story really can be summed up in one question:
“What if” you weren’t so bad at holding onto things?
🙂
““What if” you weren’t so bad at holding onto things?”
I probably have ~50 years on you. I have more past than future. At this point in my life, I have the luxury of reflecting on my life and wondering how I got where I am. I find it interesting to see where things happened that could have changed that.
You can play the game even further. Was losing those phone numbers really a random accident or was a larger force guiding my destiny?
This is similar to a very memorable conversation I had with LO. Not so much looking back at “What Ifs?” but if you could look to the future and see how things would pan out if different choices were made.
Whilst it would be good to know, where would be the fun if you knew what the outcome of everything was?
Every time memories of LO pop back into my head, so do the associated “What Ifs” but then I have to keep asking myself, what would I do with the information? Would it actually make any difference?
Probably not!
(Sorry I’ve rambled way off topic, but it’s distracted me from unblocking and messaging LO so thank you!)
The biggest “What If?” in my life centers around my father’s death in 1979. I was in training in the Navy. His death caused a 3-4 month delay in my getting to the fleet.
Officers coming out of training fill out a “dream sheet.” You state your preference of home port, type of ship, and which of those two are most important. The “Detailer” matches your preferences with what billets need to be filled on the ships. If you’re lucky, you get what you want where you want it.
My preferences were a fast attack submarine out of:
1. San Diego, CA
2. San Franscisco, CA
3. Bremerton, WA
The Detailer did his thing and I got sent to a SALT-1 ballistic missile submarine that had been converted to an attack boat and recently transferred from Pearl Harbor, HI, to Bangor, WA (near Bremerton). They needed a Sonar Officer, I had the right degree at the right time and “Voila!” there I went.
Had my father not died and my dream sheet showed up on the detailer’s desk 3 months earlier, God only knows what sub in what port I might have been sent to. I suspect my life would be very different.
Some things in life we can speculate on. This isn’t one of them. But, my father’s death and the detailer’s subsequent decision set the arc of my life.
I didn’t make either of those decisions.
Meredith – The most recent topic written by Dr. L. may help you. I would also suggest http://www.chumplady.com
He is no longer your ally. Think and act accordingly. Discuss your legal situation with an attorney because you NEED to know your rights if either of you want to separate or divorce. NOW is the time to protect individual and joint assets – including money.
If he wants to regain your trust then it is on him to re-earn it. Holding him accountable is NOT the same as abusing him. Ditto for ceasing to provide marital perks. It is super-easy to criticize what you do when he isn’t responsible for doing the tasks.
This is your opportunity to examine your life too! You don’t have to unload all of his shortcomings and faults since you met him, but you don’t have to live by the idea of “sunk costs” either.
What makes you smile, Meredith?
Whoa! I just read thru. I dont think I have anything better to contribute. Meredith, please heed the advice offered here!
My LO is 20 years younger (I’m 43). There’s definitely a “midlife” limerence going on in my case.
Another, more bleak view or question I have on “midlife limerence” is this: as I’m going through the ‘withdrawal strategy’ and ‘action plan’ in Dr L’s paid course, I find myself questioning what’s left for me to look forward to in life after I have “rid” myself of limerence (if that’s even possible) or the current tortured relationship with my LO. From where I’m standing now, life seems hopelessly colourless without the euphoric highs of limerence. From the comments, it seems many of you have had serial LEs / LOs. Is that what’s next? Or can you be “cured” to avoid the glimmer and future LOs? But, if so – and if that indeed is defined as success – what joy is there to be had from “ordinary”, glimmer-free life? I know this is probably my limerent brain testing my resolve but given that life is finite and some need or something drove me into LE, do I need to “settle” for a glimmer-free future existence? I know this was rambling but I hope you know what I’m getting at: Is there bleak nothing at the end of the rainbow?
“I know this was rambling but I hope you know what I’m getting at: Is there bleak nothing at the end of the rainbow?”
Have you read DrL’s “Is limerence all bad?” It’s one of the early blogs you have to access from the main page by going back to the beginning. Some of the best stuff is in the early blogs you don’t see from the Home Page (hint, hint).
There are several ways limerence gets in your way. You can choose unsuitable LOs. You can become so limerence-driven, you act against your own best interest, e.g., engaging in a PA or EA if you’re married, getting involved with a co-worker or subordinate, etc. My LOs were all unsuitable candidates for LTRs. Ok, two of them for sure and I’m speculating on the other two.
I believe that the key for a limerent is understanding the glimmer. Once you understand that, you have options.
Between being spending 5 years in an LE with an unsuitable LO and 30 years in a non-limerent relationship with a suitable woman, the latter is way better. With the latter, I don’t feel the angst I felt in any of the LEs.
Thanks for the tip – that was a great post. And having experienced the lows of my LE, I agree 20 years of non-limerence with my SO has been better.
“What joy is there to be had from “ordinary”, glimmer-free life?” This is so analogous to drug addiction. Because LO is totally an addiction.
“The Days of Wine and Roses” deals with addiction, squarely asking this same difficult question. Once we are armed with knowledge, we all have the power to choose/fight the limerence highs that inevitably come along with the greater and more lingering abyss. Or we can choose other highs, that while not the same, do not carry with them such consequences. There has got to be more than life than limerence euphoria, but you have to push through to finding out substitutes that don’t destroy your world and self. I’m still working on this, and I need to keep vigilant. Now, my SO does not know the reasons for these self-discoveries that I’ve pursued, but they do fit in nicely as responses to mid-life crisis. And I can share these highs with my SO, whereas limerence sent me into the loneliest place I have ever been.
Wow, that was a great post Thinker. Having been with my SO for over 20 years, my first troublesome LE started as recently as 3 months ago. So I still have current, vivid memories of what life was like for me before limerence and it was pretty damn good. It feels weird to scroll back in my own feed in Instagram and go “oh, right, this was early May before all this started – look how happy and on top of the world I was”. In part, I think that everything going so well at work gave me that selfish, unrealistic feeling “I deserve this. I deserve a romantic dalliance as well”. I now know better.
I also recognise the search for “substitutes that don’t destroy your world and self”. I just ordered an electric guitar and told my SO I was taking up a new hobby. I also randomly discussed taking singing lessons. SO, bless her, is taking all this in stride, no doubt chalking it up to midlife crisis. And I agree, limerence is a very, very lonely place. Thank God (and Dr L) for this forum.
There’s freedom at the end of the rainbow, Fred, and that’s not bleak 😉
There’s more on this question in Module 3 of the course (on future proofing), but as others here have pointed out, the highs from other rewards may not be as spectacular, but they also come without the deep lows (or harm to others). Also, once the limerence fades you don’t crave it as much – in fact in can be hard to remember why LO had such appeal. The struggle is certainly worst during the withdrawal phase.
I have speculated before about whether it’s possible to use limerence in moderation like a social drinker. It’s a game of brinkmanship. Some people can probably get away with it, but the real addicts among us are probably better off staying teetotal. It depends too on the nature of your LOs. If they are real basket cases it definitely isn’t worth the risk of getting embroiled in their lives…
Thanks for that Dr L. Freedom doesn’t sound that bad, actually. I’m not out of the depths of despair yet but I’m already entertaining the notion of dipping into limerence in moderation like a social drinker (great analogy). I know I’m getting ahead of myself and once limerence fades, I may not even want to.
Dear DrL, dear Limerent friends, my first comment here after reading the blog for a few weeks now.
I can’t thank you all enough, this blog has saved my sanity! Like many others, I recently discovered the term limerence, and it suddenly made me understand what it was that I was experiencing. I will write my story later. (Very briefly for now: I’m 52, happily married since 18 years, 3 teenagers / I did not disclose anything to anyone / LO is not reciprocating, it’s all in my head.)
I’m definitely 100% in a midlife crisis limerence as well. My LO is only a few years younger, but his lifestyle reminds me how I used to be in my twenties!
” life seems hopelessly colourless without the euphoric highs of limerence ”
Fred, that’s exactly how I feel too! I’m absolutely not ready to “get rid” of my limerence yet! I badly need it! I know it’s pure escapism, and it’s not helping me work on solutions to make my life more purposeful. But it is an easy way for me to feel more “alive”. I guess I’m not yet suffering from it enough.
Welcome Emma and I’m glad to hear that, like me, you’ve found hope and support on this blog and in these comments. At the start of my LE, it was also just wonderful, energy-boosting euphoria boosted by reciprocation. As that faded all that was left was nagging self-doubt, depression and ever-diminishing “hits” from ambiguous to mildly positive responses from LO. Not to paint a bleak picture but I think you’re lucky to have found this blog before that stage so that you can prepare and make positive choices away from limerence (like not disclosing). Look forward to hearing your story when you’re ready to share it.
It’s fun until it isn’t. After a while, the intrusive thoughts become really tiring and just take up too much time. You may want to read this excellent post by Dr. L: https://livingwithlimerence.com/2018/11/10/can-limerence-be-safely-harnessed/
We can make the best choices if we are well informed.
Best wishes!
Thanks Fred & Bertie,
I think what saves me is that my LO isn’t reciprocating. He’s a fascinating person who fits well in the description of this blogpost: “Why are some people so addictive?” https://livingwithlimerence.com/2017/09/09/why-are-some-people-so-addictive/
The uncertainty comes from his flirty behavior (not only with me), and his inconsistent attention (sometimes very present and thoughtful, at other times completely aloof). But I can’t say he ever did or said anything inappropriate. I’m pretty sure he has no idea about my feelings.
I discovered this blog and the existence of limerence only recently, while i’m actually already 4 years in this LE!! (with ups and downs in intensity). I had no idea that there was something going on, beyond just some stupid fantasies in my head. I was in complete denial and I realize now how this LE has a huge impact on me! I control my feelings to the point of being able to behave totally normally in presence of my LO, except for the occasional trembling hands which I can’t control!
Welcome Emma!
It’s tough to give up on the euphoria – that’s why limerence is so powerful and hard to resist. It’s a bit like riding a tiger, and hopefully you can learn from the mistakes of those of us who rode for a bit too long.
And as Lee put it in another post: It’s the dismount that you have to be careful of.
Dear DrL, it’s been 4 years. I know the highs and the lows. LO can make me feel elated and devastated. I hate it that I’m letting a person have such power over my mood. Still, the highs far outweigh the lows for me. The euphoria carries me through the lows. It makes me be a better person. The energy allows me to improve myself, my relationship with SO, my kids, work, everything. Maybe my “lows” aren’t as low as other limerents? Because LO is not reciprocating, I don’t experience the excruciating pain of feeling rejected?
I realize I’m probably lying to myself and rationalizing like the deeply addicted person I am.
But letting go and “settle” for a glimmer-free future existence?” (Fred)… Too hard. Need to become stronger first. That’s what I’m working on now. Finding purpose.
Being a new reader here, but finally having understand what is happening my whole life, I have to tell you that many times in my life, as soon as I noticed a possible LO (didn’t know the term LO then), I totally avoided him as possible trouble maker. As example, I remember a teacher of mine in University, clicked at me the moment he looked at me, clicked at him, I foresaw the rest of the story and avoided him at all costs.
I believe that what triggers me is the unavailables : narcissists, married, much younger (now I’m in my forties), much older (when I was in my twenties) etc.
My husband used to be a LO, for one whole year I was torturing myself with his thought, then got tired, and as soon as a new LO appeared, I lost interesting in him. Then we got together again and found much more significant qualities in him, but I could never ever get married being in limerence.
I am recovering from an affair now, fully limerent both of us, almost destroyed our homes our lives, my LO is exposed in his family, now trying to save what we can and in the same time recover from limerence.
I have the same worries as you, if limerence gives this spark in my life, how can I stop searching of another LO ? Everything else seems so dull and boring now. But yet, the intensity of feelings is so tiring sometimes, stops you from functioning normally I don’t know. I still have him in my thoughts, fantasize about him and last time we talked he told me the same. I want to get over him but he does not want to get over me. The affair is in our minds now only.
Life in limerence is torturing, life without limerence is boring. I don’t know.
Tough love time.
The flip answer is that you have choices.
If you don’t like things the way they are, you figure out why you do what you do and change things. It’s why God invented therapists. It can be long, hard, and life-changing. Doing that kind of work can take you places you had no idea you’d visit. You deal with the consequences of your actions as best you can.
If you like things the way they are, you try to learn to make it work for you. If you’re going to be a Limerent, be a good one. This is also why God invented therapists. You take risks today for immediate gratification (e.g., an affair). You make sacrifices today in the hope of a better tomorrow (e.g., you file for divorce.) The downside of that is that the people you deal with (e.g., your spouse) may not share your vision and respond accordingly. But, if you’re acting in good faith, they get to make an informed decision. They have as much right to happiness as you do and they may not take well to being sacrificed.
Pick one.
Unless you’re really in tune with yourself and can compartmentalize things, you probably won’t get it both ways. It’s just too hard to walk the line between those or go back and forth between them, spending time in one or the other. To pull that off, you almost need to tilt toward sociopathy. Otherwise, the cognitive dissonance dissonance could be overwhelming. And, once guilt gains a foothold, it can be really hard to keep a grip on things.
My first strong case of limerance started at age 12. I THOUGHT that was called “love at first sight,” but this was beyond anything anyone could imagine. I was obsessed – like an addiction. Made a complete fool of myself as this led me to be guided by these feelings of excitement, longing, etc. To this day (now in my late 50s) I am ashamed of my then addiction to my LO.
It has happened more times (with other LOs) throughout the years but the most recent started about 9 years ago (I have been married to him for the past 4) and while it’s settled a little, I still have it going on. Constantly needing my “fix” of reassurance and constantly worrying if he really loves me. (Although I have learned NOT to let him know I do this as it would be very hurtful for him to think he is doing something wrong for me to feel this way).
I KNOW this also has to do with personal insecurities, childhood emotional trauma such as anxious attachment and OCD/ROCD.
I have been researching limerance, ROCD, OCD and see a connection AND have spent a great deal of time focusing on limerance and the secondary gain because while the whole limerance gives off incredible good feelings, there are also incredibly painful longings for the LO (withdrawal). So why does it continue?? What IS the secondary gain?? The hormone chemical high?? THEN (in my younger years) when limerance wore off – I wouldn’t have that extra sparkle in my life and would feel let down – and even conclude that I no longer was in love.
Yes, I have been in analysis (long term therapy) and CBT. I have come to accept that this is just how my brain works and I need to work with it instead of fighting it but this is no always easy. I have never done drugs but I am
guessing that the limerant high is as addictive as cocaine. I am not sure if being a limerant is a gift or a curse.
My LE is most certainly part of a full-blown midlife crisis. The bottom of the U-shaped happiness curve is a reality for many people in their late 40s! It certainly has been for me. I never expected anything like my LE to come and bite me in the backside, but bite me it certainly did! The last time I had a real “crush” was over 20 years ago when I was single, so I never expected any of this. Sure, I was attracted to other women and thought about them in an “alternate universe” sort of way, but nothing like this! These feelings are a billion times more powerful and potent than anything I have experienced in over 20 years. My marriage, home life, family life, friendships, job, career and finances were all in the toilet, so no wonder this happened.
I was just starting to realize something major needed to change in my life when “Bam!” I was hit by the limerence train. I read on another forum that a psychologist said obsessions often arise when we should be thinking about and focusing on other things in our lives, so that may be a partial explanation. But what perplexes me is “Why her?” with respect to my LO. While she is attractive, fun and exciting, I meet beautiful, interesting, intelligent, successful and exciting women all the time. I am an educated and relatively successful man, yet this woman is a blue collar lass with a high school education (not that I am putting her or others down for that; it just isn’t me). She is also totally into my brother in-law (who is very different from me and very much a blue collar guy as well).
Why her and not someone else? I have a couple of theories about this, but I could be mistaken. First of all, she seems lonely and is obviously looking for love (and she seems to suggest she’s had bad luck in the dating department in the past). I also know she has experienced sadness and tragedy in her life (the damsel in distress thing). My brother in-law and I are both bald, so I know that doesn’t bother her (I was self-conscious about premature baldness for many years). Maybe I just love her gorgeous smile and the unusual colour of her eyes that seem like windows into her (beautiful) soul? Perhaps it is just the raw feminine sexiness she exudes in her walk, talk, mannerisms and facial expressions?
She gets you, Vicarious. Being understood and appreciated in the ways we truly want to be understood and appreciated is a powerful attractor. It covers over her flaws and erases your usual selection criteria the dopamine floods in.
@ ParadoxHighway: I would like to think that, but I am not sure she ever gave me any real validation. I hardly know this woman and it all seems to be in my head. On the other hand, I believe she did approach me first that night, and I THINK (but am not sure) that she lamented the fact I am married. We also chatted for a bit that night even when my brother in-law was off talking to other people. She was very cool about it when I told her I would be interested in her if I were single when I unfriended her later on Facebook due to my wife’s perceived jealousy. It didn’t seem to bother my LO anyway about my feelings for her (she was more worried about why I would tell my wife that – the only reason I did so was to tell the whole family how awesome I thought this lady was and how my brother in-law should go for it). At this point, I spend far too much time thinking about what I would say to her if we ever saw one another again (I kick myself constantly for unfriending her, although NC is supposedly the best approach). Something else I cannot get out of my mind is how I thought that night was magical and special, yet my brother in-law doesn’t see it, even though my LO’s affections were directed at him, not me. Even though it wasn’t about me, I was there and I felt it. It really bothers me how he isn’t interested in a woman I would move heaven and earth to be with if I were in a position to do so (if my marriage ended, I would make a beeline for her, and I don’t care what anyone says or thinks about that, although I realize I would be stupid to leave my wife for someone I hardly know).
@VL,
Have you checked out https://livingwithlimerence.com/2017/02/24/the-glimmer-givers/?
I don’t remember any of my LOs’ eyes as being compelling. With LO #2 and LO #4, it was their hair.
I don’t get my attraction to redheads. I knew one redhead in HS and don’t remember a single one from college.
@ Scharnhorst: The truth is I still don’t really know what it was that attracted me exactly. I mentioned her eyes, but I am not sure if I noticed them until I looked at pictures of her weeks later (perhaps I noticed them subconsciously at the time?). I too love redheads, but this lady is a brunette with dyed blonde hair. She reminds me just a little of my wife, but she is very different from her personality-wise. One thing could be that she enjoys bars and nightlife, which is so NOT like my wife at all (not that my LO is an alcoholic or anything like that – she was totally sober the night we met her). It could just be her mannerisms. Another possibility could be pheromones or something like that, since I believe there are subconscious aspects we can never really identify consciously. The post you refer to mentions social class differences. I am not sure what to make of that, but I never found I appealed much to university-educated women for some reason. I am also really starting to think that education, occupation and income aren’t all that important when choosing a potential partner.
I wrote this on another post, but I’ll add it here as well as it seems to fit when talking about age differences, you are so right about no age limit….I’m 76 (quite a bit past mid life) and my LO is just 31….it hit me like a bolt of lightening before I had any idea what was happening….this happened ten months ago when SO and I were supposed to be getting away for a nice holiday, and I now have only on line contact with LO, but cannot make myself go NC….I feel embarrassed, foolish, and just can’t tell anyone about the absurd hold that this boy has over me…of course he has no idea, never makes contact with me, and just answered politely when I contact him on some pretense….I’m hoping that somehow, with the help of this site, I can overcome this thing…of course my SO has no idea what’s going on, and has huge health problems of his own ( kidney failure) …what a mess…..when we should be enjoying retirement….
Oh Maureen this breaks my heart. The last thing you want and need right now is a LE. All I can say is there is hope. Have you got the emergency deprogramming course? If not I recommend this so much. Honestly, you’ll be surprised how quickly you can move on from this when you have the right tools and really set your mind to it. Wishing you all the luck in the world
Hi Rachel, thank you for your kind comments…..yes, I did get the course…found some of it helpful, but still haven’t been able to break the bond…..I guess seniors have some unique types of limerent problems…..but I will persevere, and hopefully it will all work out eventually…
Just found this site. Just realized what limerence is – and that I have it. I can pinpoint the “glimmer” right down to the second it started in 2019 with someone I knew professionally for two years with no attraction. Then, boom! The most intense feelings of my life, like blending souls. I saw a glorious future together, right down to sharing a huge award for a project we could work on. We are in the same field nationally. We run in the same circles. We know the same people. Last week i almost melted down at a professional conference when after two days of magical (for me) encounters, she started telling people i hugged her a little too closely. I found out, we talked for an hour, i apologized right up front, and from her there was no reciprocation of any close feelings. All those deep texts the last year with two or three exclamation points in every line; all the things we share in interests and passions; was just her friendly nature. I came back home crushed. I still am to a certain extent. I’m not looking at her social media any more; stopped texting; stopped generating ideas to help her (hero fantasy); stopped looking at photos; stopped talking about her to anyone, getting closer to full-on Mike Pence NC. It’s folly to think it might change in the future; it’s over, because it never really was anything but a romantic fantasy for me and an annoyance for her.
This is a wonderful site. I thought I was alone but it’s so comforting to know all of you are here.
Welcome Paradoxhighway, it is crushing isn’t it, the rejection. I feel your pain and then some.
My LO went sudden N/C eleven weeks ago without warning, we got a little too close, stepping right on the boundary line and then “poof” he was gone . I haven’t had one day where I haven’t felt that my heart has been ripped out and stomped on and I won’t mention the bucket of tears I’ve cried.
Like you I’ve stopped looking at photos, stopped going on social media, avoiding areas where I know he’s likely to be like the plague. My SO has been wonderful after I fully disclosed, it’s given me the will power to stomp this LE out of my life.
Do you still have to work with her?
Hi Lee-Anne,
Thank you so much for responding. My LO and I are going to be in the same place at the same time at least twice a year, for a few days each. I can’t help my feelings, but I could do better controlling my behaviour, such as not placing myself physically near her (the scent of her and her perfume competely shortcircuits my central nervous system), not scheduling anything with her one on one, and choosing activities that do not involve her if possible. Disclosure has not been an option to my SO of 20 years, who is 16 years older. She could not handle it, and it would bring things to a quite unpleasant end. I need to find other appropriate outlets for this intense joy and desire for deep intimacy that is clearly within me. Weightlifting helps; diet helps; meditation helps. I’m so glad your SO is understanding. My next LO encounter is in June; that gives me some space and time to work on letting go.
Sounds like you’re on your way. That’s good.
Now, hang around here long enough and you’ll find LOs can be unpredictable. Since things are out in the open and you know you’re going to encounter her again, you need to have the plan in the back of your mind in the chance she comes at you. You stick with your plan of civil avoidance but she may have her own plan.
It’s somewhat counterproductive since you actually have to think about getting what you think you may want from your LO but it could keep you from doing something you’ll regret should it happen.
Let’s say you’re at a reception. She has a few drinks in her and says, “You know…I might have been a little hasty last time and I’ve reconsidered.” What do you do? If you haven’t thought it through and you have a few drinks in you, things could very interesting very quickly.
About half the women that said goodbye to me cycled back through at least once later. The ones I let in I wish I hadn’t but that took a few rounds to learn. I remember a woman taking me by the hands, telling me that we wanted different things, and she hoped I’d find someone who’d give me what I was looking for. A few months later, I got a letter from her saying that the more she’d thought about it, maybe the things we wanted weren’t so different and asked to start over. I never responded to her letter.
Moral of the story: You planted a seed. It might sprout and you need to know what you’ll do if it does.
It never ceases to amaze me how similar all of these stories are. Exact same glimmer experience with my LO: worked with her for over a year and barley noticed her. Attractive? Sure. No big deal, I see/work with/friends with attractive women all the time. But I never experienced limerence until this. It happened so suddenly it is scary. We were at an event outside the office, each with our SO there as well. I’m unable to describe it further other than I knew she felt something for me. The eyes never lie. Knowing that did something to me. Disclosure confirmed that but it never went deeper. It’s all been a game of pretend and make believe since then.
Scharnhorst: If it happens, I’ll reference the hugs as a plausible excuse to keep things dialed back and appropriate. No good can come (to anyone, least of all to me) of disclosing my profound affection for her. Her current distance, physically (3000 miles) and emotionally (somewhat uncomfortable) is the least torturous route to moving on and getting through this.
Here’s an old CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) trick I’ve been doing a lot lately: to stop thinking about my LO, I touch my wedding ring. Bada boom, spell broken. This sounds a bit cynical but wow does it refocus me on the here and now.
I’ll have to try touching my wedding ring, since I too frequently get lost in rumination, and that touch will also give me a visual to help pull me back to the present. Sort of like I now tend to kiss my SO with my eyes open to keep me focused on her. During a hug, I purposefully snuggle my nose into her to experience her scent — another way to maintain focus. For me, physical/sensual actions work better to a trigger a response when trying to replace errant thoughts with appropriate ones, rather than trying this only mentally.
Until about a week ago, I thought I was the only person with this situation – and the sampler platter of thoughts and feelings and coping mechanisms – like getting close to my SO to get her scent. So weird to talk about – yet here these kinds of experiences are so commonplace. Thank you sharing. We’ve all GOT to get through this.
I’m new to all this and posted on Living with Limerence and suppose I am in my mid-life range though will never admit it! But with my first ever LO, who is about 10+ years younger than me, we were talking and chatting after my last therapy session and I made him laugh. When he smiled at me it was though the sun shone through to a part of my brain that had otherwise been in shadow. Now I am frantically trying to cope with the atomic fallout of limerence and trying to reconnect with my SO to reinforce that bond. Feeling stretched doesn’t come near to what I’m feeling. I’m elated and wretched at the same time. I’ve just signed up to Dr L’s Fast Track to Freedom Course & ordered Dr L’s book…
I meant posting on What is Limerence…
Reading some of these replies amazes me, probably because i thought these feelings were exclusive to me, but its like mirror images of what i feel. My brain has tricked me in so many ways to justify whats happening, does my lo reciprocate my feelings, ive no idea..was the way he looked at me a show of interest or my mind playing tricks. Did i hope to read from other midlifers to go for it, act on my fantasy, it would be perfectly justifiable! Part of me tells myself that if he had of reciprocated my feelings i wouldn’t have made a fool of myself telling anyone that would listen or trying so very hard to impress him and actually putting a wedge between us…if i could have kept this secret between us maybe something would have happened…all these things swirl in my mind, but now i appear like a loose cannon , too many people know and im trying so hard to hit the delete button and go back to the way things wre with us before my head got filled with fireworks
Hi Breda, I’m amazed, too. Seeing that limerence has a structure and a common set of experiences is comforting — in a way that a shot of vodka comforts a gunshot wound, but still…. 😎
Breda don’t beat yourself up that you ” ruined things”. Limerence tricks us into thinking that and blaming ourselves. Just accept that even though it’s not happening you are still a lovely person with lots to do and enjoy.
After undergoing the most intense highs and lows of my LE (7-8 years ago), I explained to myself and others what I had gone through was a mid-life crisis, which I still believe was a huge part of it. Before learning about limerence, I read a lot of analysis of marriage & divorce from the perspective of the spouse not having the mid-life crisis. Some spouses complained that the person in crisis would behave like a stranger or deny all the happiness from the past or even be unable to remember ever being happy with their marriage, and be suddenly angry & resentful about it, after having never voiced any problems before. I worried that was how I was behaving.
But while I see the possibility that my mid-life crisis caused me to focus on the negatives of my marriage and forget or deny the positives, I can’t shake the memory (or diary entries) that I have always been dissatisfied… and the reason I didn’t speak up about it before was because I was trying to make the marriage work without rocking the boat. Granted, my silence only made things worse, and I believe my spouse chose to ignore anytime I did talk about problems or when problems were apparent, so naturally when I hit rock bottom, had my LE, and declared that we either do marriage counseling or I’m leaving, it must have come as quite a shock. Except that it wasn’t completely out of left field; she immediately rationalized it. When I told her I was in love with someone else and wanted a divorce, my spouse calmly realized it was likely unavoidable that one of us would get fed up with being unhappy and find someone else who made us happy. I wish it had been her. Because in therapy, she confirmed my fears: that she was vindictive as Hell at the idea of me divorcing her and would make it as difficult as possible. With kids and debt, I had to admit to myself that my LE was a fantasy, and I was being selfish to financially cripple the family because I was unhappy. Six months of therapy just made me clam-up again. Actually, 3 weeks of therapy made me clam-up; they didn’t seem to mind that I stopped talking much after divorce was taken off the table.
On a lighter note, I was 40 when I met my LO; she was 42. Both of us are fans of writer Douglas Adams, and (to myself) I call her my Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. (When I was 42, it was my first year with NC; my 42 was extraordinarily painful.) But I had begun writing again, writing stories with my LO often the model for my protagonist, meeting a love interest that was often based on myself. My spouse supports my writing, but doesn’t read much of it, which isn’t a change from before my LE. I try to be respectful of her feelings, but I also don’t wish to draw any fire in this continued Cold War. I occasionally wonder if my stories are a form of protest. If I can’t live the life of my dreams, do I write my dreams so that I can enjoy them?
My experience closely mirrors yours, except that I haven’t been limerent for my LO for nearly as long as you. This feeling that my marriage isn’t great and that something better has to be out there is killing me. I also agree that midlife limerence is so difficult for so many of us because we are confronted with the fact that we only have a very limited time left as a relatively young person. On the one hand, I love my wife, but I feel like our marriage is just an existence. There is far too much fighting, arguing and bossy, dictatorial and controlling behaviour from my wife, who is also abusive and unfair to my daughter. By now, we are also living like roommates. The thought of spending the rest of my life with this woman is making me feel sad, depressed, uninspired and empty, but I feel equally as badly about the thought of losing her. Surely things aren’t THAT bad, are they? Am I just being unrealistic? Am I comparing a fantasy to real life? How can I throw away all of those years together and the accompanying memories? Sure we’re different people, but don’t we complement one another? What about companionship and the fact that we understand and get each other after all those years? Don’t we have shared values?
I also worry that I am being driven too much by limerence and the desire to be with my LO, but could my limerence be holding me back by making me afraid to make a change I know deep down that I should be making anyway? Am I listening too much to my “head” and not enough to my “heart,” or is it the other way around? I know my LO is just a fantasy and I would have very little chance of ever landing her, but maybe someone else would be a better fit than my wife? There seems to be a lot of quality ladies in my area around my age who are looking for a man. I don’t think I would need to be alone even if I wasn’t with my wife or my LO, but what if I did end up alone? What if I ended up wanting my wife back? I suppose we really do need marriage counselling, but it doesn’t sound like it is always the solution. We still need to make these difficult decisions on our own; no one else can make them for us.
Maybe I just need to buckle down like you and realize this is as good as it gets and try to work on my marriage? It doesn’t sound like you are truly happy though, although I do believe it is possible to settle into a kind of resigned melancholy acceptance of one’s life and get on with it as best as you can under the circumstances. I do think your writing seems like an outlet for your fantasies, and maybe I need something like that? For me, I find that innocently talking to women and getting validation from them that they find me attractive (especially now that I am so focused on weight loss and exercise) is a substitute for what I am really looking for. This is so damn hard, but at least there are people out there experiencing similar challenges!
I’m not sure how you can take yourself seriously. You’re 110% having a midlife crisis and destroying the loved ones around you.
Accept responsibility for your actions and seek therapy so you can face your own internal demons that are making you unhappy.
The unhappiness is coming from within and all this limerance nonsense is an escape created by your mind to avoid facing the things you hate about yourself.
While I agree that therapy to understand the possible origins of unhappiness is a good suggestion, the idea that VL is solely responsible for the deterioration of his marriage and it’s all because of self-hate is the kind of message that an abusive spouse would deliver.
I suspect it is a message he has heard before.
Thanks Dr. L. I totally agree. Anon doesn’t know me or my situation, or what I’m going through. This is a troll comment. I am living in a very unhappy, abusive marriage. I have told my wife probably more than 100 times that I want a divorce. The police and child protection authorities are involved in relation to the dynamics between her and my daughter. My wife is bossy, controlling, manipulative and abusive towards me (and my daughter). We aren’t a good fit and we are moving in opposite directions with our lives. But I care about this woman, despite the fact that she gaslights me. Things are never as black and white as what people make them out to be. I have actually sought out personal counselling, but that didn’t quite solve my problems, although they agreed with me that my situation is unacceptable and that it might be worth going to couple’s counselling as well. Many people in this community have also told me I should divorce my wife, and they actually think I’m nuts for not making a move to leave her by now. “Why don’t you just divorce her already?” they basically ask me, but it is never that simple, especially with the financial, logistical, emotional and family barriers I am facing, and the fact that my wife flat out refuses to consider separation and divorce. It’s been almost two years since I made the above comment. Since then, I’ve become a lot more thick-skinned and a lot more comfortable in my own skin, and comments like this no longer bother me to the same extent.
“I am facing, and the fact that my wife flat out refuses to consider separation and divorce. ”
She doesn’t have to consider it. You’ve told her you want out many times. You have done your due diligence. You would not be blindsiding her. I had a friend who packed up her stuff and left while her husband was as at work. She was worried how he’d respond and rightfully so. He went ballistic. Even though they agreed they needed to break up in several, long conversations. You have to do what you have to do.
We don’t live in an era where people have to give permission for a divorce.
@Marcia, I understand that legally it only takes one person to make the decision to separate and divorce, but when the other party isn’t cooperative it can make the process much harder from a logistical and financial perspective. It does kind of put a wrench in the works and forces the person wanting to end the marriage back to the drawing board. It also makes is difficult when the person wanting out still cares for their spouse. It isn’t easy.
VL,
“It also makes is difficult when the person wanting out still cares for their spouse.”
My friend still cared for her husband, but he refused to get counseling, so the marriage was never going to get better. They were also living in a house that neither could afford individually, but he would not discuss selling it. He was holding her hostage. She wanted out. So she pulled the nuclear option.
I’ve wondered about the role a midlife crisis may have had on my current LE developing.
The main reasons against my thinking that my middle age had something to do with it are:
– Why did I not have another LE in the prior 12 years of middle age?
– I only had one minor, inconsequential crush on one other woman during this whole time? I was 40 to 44 years old in that span, and she was 28 to 32. She’s still a friend of mine, and I kind of took on the role of “big brother” to her. No LEs, though. I never had any real fantasies about her. I never got lost in thinking about her like I do LO.
– I met a lot of other women. Some were beautiful. At most I admired them and appreciated their attention. I never had an LE among them.
But the one reason I have for thinking my middle age had something to do with my first LE in over 18 years is:
– The LE hit right after I started realizing she had been displaying behaviors signifying interest in me. The thought of having a young, beautiful woman romantically interested in me just sucked me in.
– My LE hit
Never underestimate the power of perceiving that someone is “into you.” Go re-read this post:
https://livingwithlimerence.com/how-does-limerence-begin/
In that post, Dr. L pointed out:
“Few things increase someone’s attractiveness more than the realisation that they might fancy you too.”
I knew LO for a full year before the glimmer occurred. Honestly, before that point, I found her to be very plain-looking, even bordering on unattractive. When I perceived she had a crush on me and was overtly showing interest, her attractiveness went through the roof somehow. She went from being invisible to occupying my thoughts constantly. And I commented recently on another post about how limerence, for me anyway, is inextricably tied to selfishness. I think that was the root of the problem for me. I have myself to blame for my LE because I gave power to the thought of another woman finding me attractive and being interested in me.
Supposed to be a reply @Matt. Oops.
My most recent LO is in his mid 60s and I am in my mid 30s. It was about ten years ago that I had most of my in-person contact with him, so he was in his mid 50s then, and I was in my late 20s.
The ironic thing is that though he only possibly showed interest in me once, briefly, he did have a full on midlife crisis affair with his high school sweetheart while I looked on. He wrecked his marriage, destroyed his relationships with his kids, lost his financial assets, and generally blew up his life. (I am very glad in hindsight that I was not party to any of that.) He is VERY clearly limerent himself, he just wasn’t limerent for me.
Now, going on a decade in the future, and having spent months now in depressing quarantine of various degrees, I have to wonder if he has any regrets. He married his mistress. His social media used to be all about HER, 24/7, but he hasn’t posted a new photo of her in a really long time. He also appears to have lost his job in the pandemic. I can’t imagine that life feels quite as magical now as it did when he first ran away from her. I guess I’m lucky in that my LO became a terrifying object lesson for me.