Following on from a recent case study post, a discussion broke out in the comments about the overlap between limerence (as understood from a neuroscience perspective), and spiritual interpretations of intense emotional connections. In particular, limerence was compared to a currently popular concept in spiritual circles: the idea of a “Twin Flame”.
A Twin Flame is different from an everyday soulmate. The idea is that on some occasions you can meet people who you connect with so powerfully that it can only be explained as meeting your soul’s twin. The theories I’ve seen are that – literally – one soul has been split into two bodies and that you are recognising that other fragment of your own soul when you meet this special person.
Explanations depend on the spiritual framework employed, but it can either be that a soul split in two at the beginning of eternity [sic] and is constantly seeking reunion, or that some souls incarnate into two separate bodies at rebirth.
Now, obviously, these concepts are not compatible with a scientific world view, but for now let’s just sidestep that discussion. Instead, let’s focus on the similarities in reported experience between limerents and people who believe they have found their Twin Flame.
A little background
The Twin Flame concept seems to have arisen from the experience of meeting someone that seems so especially complementary that the extraordinary emotional connection must be evidence of spiritual union. There are many books, websites and videos out there explaining how to know if you have met your Twin Flame, and they usually present lists of signs (“you finish each other’s sentences!”) and symptoms (“you feel emotionally safe with them”). Collectively, there seems to be a consensus around a few key indicators:
- You have a rapid and and powerful sense of affinity after meeting, experienced as a “recognition that you are coming home” or “feeling of rightness”.
- You have an unusually intense emotional connection, and an overwhelming urge to be together.
- If you attempt to separate, it will be painful, and probably unsuccessful. This is a bond that cannot be denied.
- You have a strong intuitive sense of what they are thinking and doing even when away from them.
- You have a strong desire to fuse your lives and are happy when isolated together away from the world.
In the previous discussion thread PS did a great job of deconstructing a popular article on the stages of a Twin Flame connection in comparison to the phases of limerence. The overlap in experience is obvious to any regular LwL readers:
- The sense of rapid and powerful affinity is basically the glimmer.
- The unusually intense connection and urge to be together results from the neurochemistry of infatuation.
- Pain when separating and a desire to deeply bond, is uncertainty coupled to desire for reciprocation.
It’s pretty clear therefore, that limerence can explain a lot of the signs and symptoms of Twin Flame beliefs, but there are some subtleties and loose threads too.
Let’s pick at them!
When could limerence best fit twin flame symptoms?
For all the overlaps between the ideas there are some dissimilarities too. Twin Flames are supposed to recognise each other, but many limerents have suffered the cruel sting of an LO who is ambivalent about their feelings. Limerence can definitely be one-sided.
Twin Flame connections are also supposed to be spiritually elevated above petty concerns like jealousy, but limerents are often fiercely jealous of other people flirting with LO if their confidence in reciprocation is shaky.
Twin Flame thinking seems to require reciprocation to make sense. At one level this would seem to limit the duration of limerence, because “ecstatic union” is self-limiting when uncertainty is removed. So, mutual limerents may feel they have met a twin flame, but the flame should snuff out within a few months or years – rather spoiling the whole “reunited soul” theory.
No, I think the most powerful overlap would come for the following scenario: a person who is married, but becomes mutually limerent for someone new, and they were not limerent for their spouse. That seems like the killer combo to me.
Why is the twin flame concept appealing?
Limerence is an exceptional experience. It is out of the ordinary. Your perceptions change, the world transforms as your mood rises to euphoric heights or drops to crushing lows, your emotional landscape is transformed, and the LO that has caused the change in your worldview blazes in the centre of it.
As an experience, it does rather demand some sort of explanation.
One very appealing explanation is capital-R Romance. The framework that explains love as a transcendent, numinous force; evidence of divinity. That explanation means our feelings of extraordinary connection are sublime. They are grand passions, validating the strength of our feelings, justifying our pursuit of our LO, indeed demanding that we bring the spiritual union into consummation.
As humans, we do search for the sublime. When touched by it, through music or art or love, we are enriched. What a seemingly noble way of reconciling the conflict of limerence for someone we should be forsaking (if our wedding vows have meaning).
It’s a psychologically seductive way of resolving cognitive dissonance.
Circular reasoning
Another way that limerence and twin flame thinking can align is through the likelihood of circular reasoning. For example: one of the commonest manifestations of limerence – the thing that makes other people around you think “ah ha! Those two are up to something” – is the tendency to adopt the mannerisms, opinions and attitudes of your LO. It comes from spending lots of time talking with them, thinking about them, idealising them, and generally conferring special significance on everything that they say or do.
The idea that you have a “strong intuitive sense of what they are thinking and doing” comes not from soul connection but from very attentive study of LO and their behaviour, combined with willfully changing your own behaviour in a subconscious attempt to get closer to them.
Even worse: the intuitive sense is often a total illusion. You are sure you know what they are thinking and feeling because you have a very highly developed “model” of them in your head. Every time you correctly guess what they are doing you take that as evidence of a magical connection, every time your guess is wrong you incorporate it into your refined mental model of LO and think you know them even better.
Finally, another inbuilt circular argument is when limerence starts to fade or sour. If you are in conflict with your LO but still crave them, that’s evidence of your fractured soul trying to heal its old wounds (which have been opened by the Twin Flame connection). If the extraordinary attraction fades, that’s evidence that in fact this wasn’t a twin flame, it was only a soulmate. And that last get-out clause also explains the fact that you can become limerent for many people; this isn’t a Harry Potter Horcrux scenario with soul fragments all over the place, it’s a misreading of the signs.
So, I’ve kind of gone snarky at the end, but only because theories that explain everything and can’t be disproved really annoy me. And that brings me back to the conflict between science and spirituality when it comes to understanding love and limerence. I have things to say about that, but goodness me look at all the words I’ve already typed out.
In summary: Twin Flames is a very potent idea for conflicted first-time limerents.
To be continued…
Your summary at the end says it all.
I have to say, did I not have my previous LO experience(s), esp the one (the med student, I’ve mentioned him in a few posts) that got me to be my most limerent ever, I would probably have signed up to that twin flame/soulmate whatever you call it “meant to be” kind of thinking with my current LO and would probably have left my SO and broken up my family. Especially if I think about someone experiencing those strong feelings for the first time, how can you not think of a divine connection? Glad I can see it for what it is, a f***ed up brain and chemicals messing with me and that’s all.
Are these two concepts mutually exclusive? Can’t they both coexist as an explanation for each other? One a spiritual quest, the other a mental health one, both solved by healing wounds from childhood with reprogramming and self love and care?
Yep, when you lay it out like that DrL, I was a sitting target to be flayed open by the killer combo!
I know Scharnhorst loves a good song to fit the occasion, so I’ll share what has become my personal anthem:
http://bit.ly/LoveInterruption
Are you after my job?
LOL I wouldn’t dare! I was simply inspired 🙂
Killer combo here, too. It’s good for all of us to be able to see we are not alone.
I’m proud of how I’ve handled it, with the deck stacked so heavily against me!
Excellent song choice, catcity13. Bingo!
When I was a kid, I had a thing for “escape songs.” I didn’t know what I was escaping from, where I was going, or who’d be with me but there was someone.
The first one I remember was Tommy James, “I Think We’re Alone Now.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkMFLUXTEwM
“And so we’re running just as fast as we can
Holdin’ onto one another’s hand
Tryin’ to get away into the night”
The second one was the Beach Boys, “Wouldn’t It Be Nice?” It was what we’d find when we finally stopped running.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6TK9xKgGmk
“Wouldn’t it be nice if we could wake up
In the morning when the day is new?
And after having spent the day together
Hold each other close the whole night through”
And, the best one, Juice Newton’s, “In the Heart of the Night.” It came out the same year a I met LO #2. It says it all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1VAMl9dA64
“In the heart of the night
We run like bandits
Two hungry hearts under the gun
In the heart of the night
When we find each other
We’re stealing love on the run”
By the middle of 1984, I thought I’d found that woman. We didn’t know where we were going but we were doing it together. But, at some point, she started lagging behind until it was like I was pulling her along. We got to a point where it was like we were at a chasm. We had to make a leap of faith. I made it but she didn’t. We were on opposite sides for over a year. I tried to get her to make it but she wouldn’t and I wouldn’t go back. To make it worse, at that point, it wasn’t just that we were on opposite sides of the chasm, we had guns pointed at each other.
And, when I met my wife, none of those feelings surfaced. Not a single one. We’d face the future together but we weren’t escaping anything or anybody.
Maybe there is an opera in there somewhere.
I think I need to take a hiatus. More and more I come away from this site feeling badly that all I am is a non-limerent SO and an SO for whom Mr. Lee never felt limerent. Stodgy. Reliable. Boring. The embodiment of the fabled Appliance Spouse. This isn’t good for me.
My best wishes to all of you. I hope life treats you and your families honestly and kindly.
I am sorry that you feel that way Lee. I have never really viewed it from a perspective of an SO. But this makes me feel sad. Believe me if I could never have experienced limerence I would. It’s a curse. The initial euphoric feelings don’t last long and before you know it your in hell and your trying to claw your way out of it. It’s a prison of the mind.
“Even worse: the intuitive sense is often a total illusion. You are sure you know what they are thinking and feeling because you have a very highly developed “model” of them in your head. Every time you correctly guess what they are doing you take that as evidence of a magical connection, every time your guess is wrong you incorporate it into your refined mental model of LO and think you know them even better.” Yes this really resonated with me in a big way. We are so tuned into our LO’s in a freaky way that isn’t spiritual it’s borderline stalking.
Scarny – wow my escape music is difference due to our age but I used to fantasise of escaping and get lost in music. Not knowing really what I was escaping from.. we must have a vivid imagination.
Maybe believing there was something better out there and someone to share it with kept us going.
It’s fucked up. I’m actually feeling fucked up and so low again. This really can’t keep happening to me. I’m fed up of these relapses it’s so disheartening when I’ve spent months and months clawing my way out of this
How are things with your SO, Rachel? I noticed that I was usually drawn in deeper into limerence when things with my SO weren’t well at all, and LO offered some sort of escape.
Uh-oh, I just saw LO’s LO’s vacation picture in yet another common colleagues facebook profile that popped up on my feed… DELETE! That colleague has to go too. Unfriend! Must get rid of anything that evokes any sort of feeling. And it feels good doing that! 🙂 Like decluttering the house.
Is there anyway you can avoid your LO, Rachel? You said he lives on your street, but maybe you know his work schedule and actively avoid him?
Thanks Sarah for taking the time to message. I wish I could post on here my situation in full but I can’t. I’m really very paranoid for some reason.
This time it must have been stress induced. Me and my SO are good so it’s not that. I wish I could cut off but it’s not that easy. My kids are best friends with LO’s kids and spend alot of time together. It’s hard becuase of the kids. I can’t deprive them of their friends becuase I am a massive f*** up and can’t get my shit together. Also SO wife seems to talk to me about their marriage alot which draws me in on a emotional level and starts me off ruminating. LO is everywhere I go. At the school, kids parties, kids events, bump in at the shop literally everywhere. To completely cut off would be to move my entire life. I can’t delete him or SO off social media as that just looks odd and it’s too close to home. People would question this. My only option is to completely come off Facebook. But there’s a lot of groups I am in for the school etc and I would miss out. It seems very drastic but something I am considering. It’s tough as I can’t seem to escape him. Most of the time I’m just getting on with it, positive thinking and putting on a front but then I have a relapse or it blows up in my mind becuase I’m suppressing all these feelings all the time. I try to fight it and devalue but it gets mentally exhausting.
Keep decluttering. You are doing amazing by the sounds of it and keep this momentum up 🙂
Okay, that really isn’t a good situation to be in and LO really unavoidable.
I forgot if you disclosed to LO? Any reciprocity from LO?
And I have a question for you: Do you think that you and LO could be happily ever after? Like would you even want to have a patchwork family with LO? And what impact would that have on everyone? The SOs, the kids, on you, your image in town, the talks from the neighbors etc.
I’m asking because at some point I realized that I don’t actually want LO to be “the new dad” for my kids. I realized it would impact my life so heavily negatively that I don’t want to be with LO in reality (anymore). And holding on to that thought really helped me as well. Imagining how live would actually suck with LO.
It really is sucky I can’t really avoid him. Last night I would say I had like a limerence panic attack. My heart was racing constant thoughts of LO and negative thoughts about myself. Deffinatly idealation going on. Dreams about LO laughing at me whilst running off with his SO sniggering at me. Awful really.
This morning I’ve got up done some little excericses sorted some stuff out and have calmed down. Thank God. When my rational brain is in control I know LO is not for me. Firstly, he is unattractive. I have never gone for looks but really he is not attractive. I don’t mean to be horrible here but out of the fantasy land never we never would we be a couple. I guess he has the same sense of humour and me and is kinda quirky and different. He is quite soft and comes across very kind.
However I have learnt he is not this shiny person. He can be very hot and cold. Sometimes unkind about people. He doesn’t really have any friends either. His SO has an amazing professional high flying job which makes me feel very inadequate. Anyways, we always would meet each other with the kids in no secrecy at all. We found we really got on make each other laugh and smile and then one day feelings were disclosed. Wow rocket fuel. Absolute whirlwind the both of us would be pushing and pulling each other. Nothing physical ever happened but at one point I think I would have. Thank God that he withdrew at that point. Since then I guess I’ve been up and down. Jealous of him getting on with his life, insecure of his SO to then feeling totally over it and confident and content. Which I think makes him try and be more friendly to me. It’s like a loop. In the ideal world I would just cut them off but I can’t. It’s a very trapping feeling. The only hope that I cling onto is my rational mind knows the truth so that’s what I hang onto. My rational mind has to take over at some point.
Without being all negative this LE has changed me as a person pushed me to try new things and change my life for the positive. Which I am very proud of myself. Just not sure how I can be in his presence constantly. I feel like it’s a constant mental game which I get tired of hence the blow up. How are you feeling today Sarah
I know this sounds stupid and not helpful, but at some point you will have to let him go. Like you will need to have that moment of “this is in the past and that’s ok”. I can’t tell you how to reach that, but it will come. And in that moment you’ll think: this is what Sarah meant. It will be ok.
Hang in there, focus on yourself, find meaning in purposeful activities and push LO further and further in the back.
Sarah. Honestly that’s the most real. Thing I’ve heard in a long time and absolutely spot on. I need to let LO go.. I really need to. I just don’t know how to. Thank you so much for your on going support. It means a lot to me at time where I can not talk to anyone about this madness. X
Anytime, Rachel. I am in the same boat, I also can’t talk to anyone about this and it really helps being able to voice out what’s going on in my head and get some insights from others.
Sorry to hear that Lee.
Thank you for all the reality checks and nudges in the right direction.
Your viewpoint is very much appreciated!
All the best to you and your family too. I hope things improve for you and Mr Lee.
Agree with Sophie, your words were usually a reality check and hard to hear (read), but needed and appreciated!
All the best to you and the Lee family!
Lee,
I definitely feel that I have been blamed and penalized for being reliable and dependable. It is as if I were an old shoe kicked to the corner, because I couldn’t compete with a fantasy designed LO. She was given a ‘pass’ for everything bad about her, and of course, all of my flaws were made worse. What’s even more disheartening is that fact that in my spouse’s fantasy induced thinking, she did not possess even one of my flaws–exactly the opposite.
Feeling like the Wicked Witch of the West compared to Glinda the Good Witch really stinks and is totally unfair! I am so glad that I got to the adult in my relationship for so many years, and that worked to my detriment when a shiny new ball came along.
Lee,
May the future bring you success and happiness.
Hey Lee. I understand the sentiment. It is bound to get wearying reading over and over how marvellous it feels to be a euphoric limerent, when you’ve been on the receiving end of that “euphoria” wrecking your peace of mind. I do understand that sometimes it could get a bit nauseating.
It is an illusion, though. It doesn’t compare with deep, lasting love, and it is no indicator of the value of a spouse (or LO for that matter). I hope you know that.
Thanks for all your many contributions. You’re always welcome here, and best wishes to you and yours too.
It’s very hard for a non limerent to truly understand the condition. I think the main thing they miss is the involuntary aspect of it. The tone of comments from non limerents tend to have an undercurrent of “why can’t you snap out of it?”. They apply logic to a situation that defies it, and it baffles them (as it does us).
As Dr L says, an LE doesn’t compare to a proper relationship with a SO, but for a while there we lose sight of that. I never thought of LO as a twin flame, never really saw a future together but somehow she still occupied all of my waking thoughts. I really wanted it to go away as well. Logic just didn’t come into it and that’s so hard to fathom from the outside.
Lee,
You’ve been a great help to me (as I reached day 60 of NC) and many others here. I’ll miss your laser focus and sharp wit. I wish you the best, but consider checking in occasionally.
Sorry to hear that Lee, but I understand.
I really don’t think my husband experiences limerence, and I don’t think he was limerent for me when we met. (I don’t remember being overly limerent for him either, but that may have been because he didn’t play mind games with me or give me mixed signals!) He’s been an incredibly stable partner to me the entire time I’ve known him, and for that I am extremely thankful; if anything, this LE has made me realize what a gift a stable and secure marriage is, and how well he has provided that for me.
I often think to myself “the more I read up about limerence, the longer I will remain IN limerence” and I have intentionally stayed away from this blog at times for that reason.
Hopefully we’ll see you again sometime.
NOOOO! Lee! You are a breath of fresh air, objective, clever, hilarious and honest. I love reading your posts and I hope that you will return to the blog. I can honestly say you were a refreshing respite for us all. I can’t help but think you are more valued than you realize…. to be truthful…childish fantasy and unrequited romance makes you want to throw up after a while, but reliability and integrity and honesty is strengthening and inspiring. You are all of that and more!
Lee-
please reconsider.
You’re one of the best things about the site.
Your feelings don’t matter.
Kidding!
I totally get it. Actually prior to my LE, I felt exactly like you, being the ‘appliance spouse’. Hopefully Mr. Lee realizes someday what an absolute gem you are—he won the lottery when he won your heart and he need look no further.
Limerence is a scourge and an embarrassment, if you’re in a relationship already. It’s not anything special—millions of cheaters succumb to it yearly.
You’ll be missed.
Thank you for this post. I especially like the explanation about the “intuitive sense” actually being the result of very attentive study of LO and their behaviors. Of course! But it can be quite depressing to realize that many things one thought are actually not true, and life seems much more boring without all the excitement of “attentive studying.”
I recently came across another article about limerence written by another neuroscientist that reinforces all these points. She says “it is important to rise above the delusion that you have met your twin flame … and be open to adopting an analytical perspective and resisting destructive highs.” A very good read:
https://youmemindbody.com/mental-health/My-First-Limerence-Lesbian-Love-Gone-Wrong
Thank you, PS, that is a helpful read indeed. It helps me sustain an objective viewpoint and see right through my limerent illusions. I especially liked these passages:
« Our neurobiological machinery only allows us to feel those ‘ups’ for people who are unavailable and confusing. And, there is always a cost… »
«…there is nothing you can do to make an adult with intrinsically disordered emotions commit to you romantically. »
Amen!!!
Thanks for sharing the article. The passage that stood out for me was this: “…unstable people with borderline personality disorder (BPD) or manipulative narcissistics. Why? These common trigger archetypes a). bond with you intensely at the beginning due to absent boundaries, b). exhibit confusing, self-contradicting behavior that creates addiction and c). oddly enjoy attention from you when you are obviously limerent, despite not considering you a potential partner (Wilson et al., 2017).”
A and c definitely massively applied to my LO. Immediate intense bonding from the beginning, and he did enjoy the attention he got from me.
And also something that Rachel actually pointed out in another post: “You see, a secure, relatively neurotypical individual is unlikely to continue throwing compliments at you or sparking text conversations if they suspect that you are in love with them and they are not interested in a relationship. Most normal people are repelled by people who appear ‘lovey-dovey’ around them if they do not reciprocate feelings. If you truly believe that your LO is giving you mixed signals and keeping you ‘trapped’ in a sentimental quasi-friendship, there is a good chance that they lack the normal bonding behaviors and boundaries of a healthy adult.”
LO continued to engage in deep meaningful conversations and texted me every day even though I disclosed my feelings for him and he said there was absolutely nothing on his end. I take that as him lacking boundaries of a healthy adult.
I have been thinking a lot about how this happened, especially with my LO. What was so special about him? Me and SO lived 3 years (in total) on different continents snd not once was I even tempted to cheat. So why did this LO get me so hooked. I always thought there was something special about him, but I couldn’t pinpoint what it was. But his lack of boundaries and immediately creating such close intimacy definitely was a key factor I think.
In all 4 LE’s I’ve had, they all took weeks to months to develop. The only time I tangled with a “love-bomber,” she sent up all kinds of red flags. For a woman to be an LO, I have to attach to her, or in the case of LO #3, want to attach to her. The “love-bomber” story is buried in here somewhere. Going tangential, it was spending a week with the LB a few weeks before LO #2 came back for her final run that put me in the frame of mind to withstand LO #2. When it came to a few things, the LB was better at them than LO #2 had been and in what she wasn’t, she made up for in sheer enthusiasm.
“No, I think the most powerful overlap would come for the following scenario: a person who is married, but becomes mutually limerent for someone new, and they were not limerent for their spouse. That seems like the killer combo to me. ”
It seems that one key difference between me and several other posters was 3 of my LEs occurred before I was married. I wasn’t limerent for my wife. She wasn’t a D-I-D and didn’t need to be rescued from anything. She was a 5’2″ blonde, blue-eyed, bundle of cute and she was willing to throw in her lot with me. There’s nothing cooler than being with someone who wants to be with you.
So, when I had an LE 20 years into my marriage, it came as a shock. I hadn’t really done any trend analysis of my pre-marriage relationships until I started seeing a therapist because of the problems we were having in our marriage. It never occurred to me that my online relationship with LO #4 was replaying relationships I’d had over 20 years earlier. To fully understand things, I didn’t have to go back 20 years, I had to go back 50 years.
That was a very good article PS. It almost seems as if Lucy is a reader of this blog!
Despite everything I’ve learned, and making definite progress, I am heading into a rough period. I can feel it. October represents the first anniversary of the mutual disclosures of attraction and subsequent implosion of our relationship. I’ve already cried buckets yesterday and today. Thank goodness I only have to go through this “anniversary” once. I think I’ll take a bit of a break from the blog and my various YouTube psychologists for a few weeks! Wish me luck guys, it’s going to be a tough month.
Good luck here if you need us.
Good luck, catcity. Remember to focus on your purpose and not on LO!
I have to admit I did have a wry smile about her talking about “glimmer” and “purpose”.
It’s nice if I have had an influence.
Yes, good luck, catcity!
I feel the same. My LO has no boundaries. I was carrying on about my normal life. Albeit, not so happy but still he kind of sucked me in. Until the point I felt addicted and couldn’t see no way out. No normal person would persue married women. It proper F***ed with my head how he’d let me get close and connected and then would back off.
Rachel and Sarah, same here, same here. You said it better than I could. I’ve wanted to give my LO the benefit of the doubt, but no more. His behavior conforms so closely to what is described here that he could be a textbook example. Since he blindsided me out of nowhere and I hadn’t read all this background, I was completely unprepared to handle it and it really threw me, until I started to read up on this stuff.
Knowing what I know now takes some of the sting out of the cold spells.
I know, Midlifer. Knowing what I know now would probably have helped to steer clear of this limerent mess. I am very surprised I have not heard of limerence before, it makes so much sense! It should be taught or at least mentioned in school, next to depression and that stuff. At least we covered that as part of human biology.
Yeah, someone should try to get that into the curriculum.
Maybe a campaign…?
I also think that “attachment theory” should be taught in schools. Learning that I am somewhat anxiously attached has changed my life. (No idea how I got this way though…my childhood was normal).
I have already talked to my daughter about different attachment styles (hoping we haven’t messed up, but just in case!!) and I’ll definitely give her plenty of resources on it as she starts dating. (And yes of course I’ve talked about attachment styles with my husband. Duh.)
Thank you so much, Sarah. I agree about the importance of attachment theory. I’ve just read an excellent book, ‘Attached’ by Amir Levine and Rachel S.F. Heller. It talks about how the type of attachment system you have is not completely determined in early childhood but is malleable throughout life. There are some good insights about how to make choices that build more security within oneself and build attraction to stable, consistent partners who really care about one’s well-being.
Oh, and thank you also, AL and catcity13, for your comments. It is a great source of relief and validation to be part of this online community.
I read “Attached.”
Overall I liked it but it missed a few things. It glosses over PDs. In fact, it’s dangerous because it can lead you to believe that if you do enough of the right things, good results will materialize. If the driver of the person you’re dealing with has a PD, nothing in that book will help you. Many of the list of traits Heller and Levine list are indicators of abuse. They also don’t mention the Fearful-Avoidant style which one NIMH study cites as someone has to be a Borderline to have that attachment style.
At its worst, it could induce someone to stay in an abusive, perhaps dangerous, relationship in the hope that he/she can turn things around by using the ideas in the book. Heller and Levine pretty much sidestep that.
Thanks, Scharnhorst, for your références and thoughts on PDs. I will look into all that!
It does. It’s not us it’s them. Well it’s partly us but we wouldn’t be hooked if LO’s are stable.
Right on, Rachel.
Scharnhorst, thank you for your critique of ‘Attached’. I take your points. All the same, and with those cautions in place, there are two main ways in which reading it helped me.
1. It helped understand my marriage better and, in that context, to see how I became vulnerable to LO. My husband and I are both basically ‘secure’ types but I have some mild ‘anxious’ tendencies and he has some mild ‘avoidant’ tendencies. Our marriage had mainly, and delightfully, expressed the ‘secure-secure’ bond for about 20 years until it frayed under various situational strains, especially my long-running obligations to tend to my dad’s elder-care needs in a complicated & vexing extended family system.
Under these pressures I skewed way ‘anxious’ and my husband skewed way ‘avoidant’ and we fell into a most unpleasant ‘anxious-avoidant’ dynamic. I see this in retrospect. At the time it simply felt to each of us like we didn’t love, respect, or like each other anymore. He withdrew and I was hurt and bewildered. Enter my LO, who seems to have had a sort of 6th sense for exploiting my emerging, poorly defended vulnerabilities. (I say that about my LO’s 6th sense because at no time have I ever confided in LO about the state of my marriage.) So, reading ‘Attached’ — plus having done couples counseling with my husband — helped me calm down about my marriage and work with my husband, a deeply kind, caring
man whose commitment to me was impeccably consistent until we hit the bumpy road of the past couple of years, to move back toward the secure-secure bond that we were accustomed to enjoying.
2. The book helped me decipher LO’s behavior as classically avoidant (signs being: forms relationships with no future, as with someone married; flirts visibly with others to introduce insecurity; keeps secrets; gives mixed signals).
Now the insight that I’m gaining from this piece by Lucy is, LO’s behavior seems not merely avoidant but disordered: he seems to fixate generally on married women and makes a point of flirting visibly with them, while keeping up the hot and cold games with me. It’s not feasible for me to extricate myself completely from the social settings where this occurs, so i’m working with my OCD counselor to practice behaving as if I’m indifferent to LO, with my feelings beginning to follow, and the more so the more I learn about how disordered personality might explain LO’s behavior.
So, can you recommend a good primer on PDs?
Hey midlifer
Great insight there. I’m particularly curious about
“I’m indifferent to LO, with my feelings beginning to follow”
Today I saw LO and following Sarah’s post about being neutral I decided to act that way. I would laugh at LO’s jokes even if I thought they weren’t that funny. So I decided to ignore the jokes that I thought were awkward and cringey. I didn’t really ask about what he’d been up to. He was neutral to me also. I’m curious as to what your therapist said about acting indifferent with the feelings to follow? So if I keep this indifferent action hopefully my attitude and feelings will eventually become indifferent?
Midlifer,
Theodore Millon wrote “Personality Disorders in Modern Life.” It’s considered one of the cornerstones of the field. It’s long, tedious and ridiculously expensive. It’s also directed at clinicians so I quit reading it after I got past the descriptions and into treatment techniques. There are a lot of books, some better than others, that talk about BPD, NPD, and Anti-social Personality Disorder. If you’re into sociopaths, check out Robert Hare and Martha Stout.
I recommend Shari Schreiber’s site. Start with her first article, “Do You Love to be Needed or Need to Be Loved?” Her article on Passive-Aggressive behavior is also really good. Couple that with Martin Kantor’s section on Passive-Aggressive behavior in his book, “Distancing: Avoidant Personality Disorder” (you can find it free online) and you’ll learn everything you need to know about PA behavior. After that, you can pick and choose what appeals to you. Her articles are really good. If you find an area that appeals to you, you can pull that string more. There are numerous sites dedicated to relationships with Borderlines, Narcs, pick something. When I was researching my relationship with LO #2, I spent a lot of time on several of them but not anymore.
I took one of Schreiber’s articles to the therapist and said that was what we’d discuss the next session. After discussing it and reading my 12 page history of the relationship, the therapist said, “You’ve convinced me she’s a Borderline, quit trying to convince yourself that she isn’t.” The therapist also said that while it wasn’t exactly a Borderline/Narcissist relationship, we’d been doing a pretty good imitation of one in many respects. The therapist asked what I thought would happen should I ever re-engage LO #2. I told her that LO #2 had 2 decades to idealize the relationship and if she hadn’t done any work, at some point, we’d find ourselves back in the same boat we were in back then. The therapist said that was very good and it’s not that Borderlines can’t change, it’s that they usually don’t. She recommended that were I ever to find myself available again, I should stay away from LO #2, “She’s bad news.”
Thanks, Rachel, for your support and further reflections. My therapist’s mantra about OCD generally, of which my limerent obsession is a species, is: ‘Belief follows behavior’.
And we can sub in ‘feelings’ for ‘belief’ here. The rationale is: because my obsession with LO is rooted in a part of my brain/mind/emotional system that is impervious to logic, reason, and evidence, reasoning alone won’t shift it. What has a chance of shifting it is changing my behavior so that I don’t act in any way like he is any more than a neutral acquaintance (that’s the aspiration). It’s true that when I cut back on emotionally close behavior and communication with LO, it’s like a space starts to open up, the fog starts to clear, and there’s room for a rationally well-justified aversion to him to take root. For me it has been a three steps forward, two steps back kind of thing. The clinical supervision helps me with staying on track under adversity. As we all know here, none of it is easy!
I hear you for the 3 steps forward 2 steps back. When my limerence is bad my anxiety is horrendous. Full on panic attacks! But once I get my shit together and do something positive or have a good night sleep it starts to get easier again. May I ask how long you’ve been limerent for. It really is hard mental graft that is exhausting and disheartening at times. I really really like your approach with neutral actions. That is something that I haven’t tried yet. I will be continuing to try being neutral and distant no matter where my mind is at. With the long term goal as my beliefs and emotions will follow. That’s great!
” It’s true that when I cut back on emotionally close behavior and communication with LO, it’s like a space starts to open up, the fog starts to clear, and there’s room for a rationally well-justified aversion to him to take root. ”
You tilt back, stretch your legs, take a sip of your Singapore Sling, and watch “Fantasy Island” slowly fade in the distance.
“You tilt back, stretch your legs, take a sip of your Singapore Sling, and watch “Fantasy Island” slowly fade in the distance”
Yes I feel like once you let go of the limerence rope this is possible. Im letting go…
Hi Rachel,
About 16 months. You are so right, yeah, exhausting. What a learning opportunity, though, if only we can make the best of it.
Hi Scharnhorst,
Enjoyed the ‘Fantasy Island’ reference, helps me to lighten up. I’m fighting my addiction to texting LO today, and doing OK, but man do I feel strung out. It’s hard to concentrate on tasks I’m working on. But I’m holding steady on my anti-texting plan. That’s progress, and is at least more in the right direction than goofy daydreaming. Also, my reply earlier went to a spot where you might not see it: so, again, thank you for the refs and thoughts on PDs.
Keep holding on to that no texting plan,Midlifer! You can do it!
Yes ML you can do it. We all can do this! Together.. cheese bomb here. Haha.
Thank you, Sarah and Rachel! Your encouragement helps.
So far, so good. 🙂
Back in 1988, “Lair of the White Worm” came out. It played to mixed reviews but has achieved cult status over the years. I saw it but wasn’t particularly impressed with it. However, I do remember one thing from it.
Amanda Donohoe was the villain and Catherine Oxenburg was the heroine. Amanda Donohoe was about to sacrifice Catherine Oxenburg when the rescue sequence begins. As things are closing in, Amanda Donohoe says:
“So much for ceremony, on to ritual.”
That line stuck with me. Sometimes, you just gotta do what you gotta do.
Yes, great article thanks for posting PS.
I agree too that the lack of boundaries from LO and continuing the friendship even though it would have been clear I had feelings, were both features of my LE. This line really stood out: “there is a good chance that they lack the normal bonding behaviors and boundaries of a healthy adult.”
LO was 19 when it kicked off, came from a broken home and her step dad wasn’t a nice guy either. She was physically mature, carried herself in a way beyond her years but emotionally she was childlike and clearly lacked those boundaries. No wonder I guess – she wasn’t an emotionally healthy adult… She once said she saw me partly as a father figure (though I still maintain you don’t text your father pics of you in a bikini on holiday). So looking back that makes some sense.
At best she was confused as I was about our relationship and didn’t know what to do, at worst she was a narc just loving the attention.
For a while I hoped it was some kind of fate or destiny connecting me and LO. I used to think I was getting signs from the universe/a higher power that LO and I were meant to be.
However, the science and psychology behind it all really helps to take away the magic. I do still receive signs connected specifically to LO but even though they feel uncanny, I realize they are highly coincidental. Now, when I receive those “signs” I partly chuckle but partly feel a twinge of sadness.
That’s the problem with losing the magic – I also lose a little of the brightness that makes life fun.
“That’s the problem with losing the magic – I also lose a little of the brightness that makes life fun.”
It kinda sucks in that respect.
Did you ever have such a good dream that you don’t want to open your eyes because you know that once you do, the magic is gone?
Yeah. Reality is a buzzkill 🙂
Hi to all. I’ve just come across this blog having had a realisation that the EA I’ve been having for 3 months is not just an ‘addiction’ as my therapist says – but is a limerent episode. I’ve had 1 significant and 1 minor LE – over 20 years ago before I got married. I’m married now but never felt limerent towards my SO – in fact I clearly recall saying what I liked most about him was that we felt the same about each other and there were no mental games or power play. We also had no grand passion and that has always been a lingering source of regret for me.
4 kids later and I ended up seeing someone from my past (who now lives on a different continent to where we both grew up and I now still live) with whom I shared a mutual attraction – we had never been together but had I think kissed many many years ago. Our meeting was once during which I am ashamed to say due to alcohol I made it clear I found him physically attractive, although nothing happened. During the 3 weeks after that he remained relatively close to my home (but I didn’t see him) he initiated a series of messages (I guess love-bombing?) that played on my deep-seated need to be thought attractive and sexy. I was having existing difficulties in my marriage as it was without physical intimacy (at my SO’s behest) and just generally feeling sad about reaching mid-life. After a couple of weeks of his persistent ‘grooming’ I’m ashamed to say it became sexual in a virtual way. ‘Sexting’ I suppose even though I would never have believed I would want or be capable of doing that.
In retrospect I think, to start with I was his LO not the other way around. I wasn’t that bothered if I didn’t hear from him. But once it became sexual it seemed to flip in some ways. I began imbuing him with qualities he frankly does not have and glossing a frankly seedy and horrible exchange of sexual material with a ridiculous layer of romance and meaning. All the while he started to withdraw (ahhh! the uncertainty) – but never fully and (presumably when he needed some sexual material) would reappear and always seem to do something that convinced me his feelings were deep and genuine. Rationally I know that they are not. But every item of the checklist relating to limerence, I satisfy. Even to the extent that when we had one of only two phones calls (all our contact has been via messenger) I actually described it as a high like mdma. And he commented on how nervous I sounded, both times we spoke. Really pathetic.
Anyway, it has been helpful for me to know that this is a chemical reaction which explains why I have found it so hard to detach from messaging him. Any attempts at blocking have been broken by one or other of us, leading to messaging that once again captures that dizzying adrenaline rush.(and then the crushing lows) I just wish he would properly listen to my disclosure of how damaging I find all of this. I’ve told him that it’s not the sexting that’s addictive, it’s any contact at all.
As has been mentioned in the article linked above – clearly both of us lack proper boundaries and I have deeply betrayed my SO and our relationship. (LO is living with his former partner & their daughter). I have also been incredibly irritable and emotionally volatile during this time and not present for my children. The description of the intrusive thoughts was particularly resonant for me – I have spent hour upon hour going through the minutae of meetings we will have when he is next in this continent. I have even planned travelling to his city and the lies I would tell to make it happen. Awful but endlessly consuming.
My only relief is that due to distance I wasn’t able to translate this to a physical affair – although my betrayal is as bad. Part of me wonders though if we had met up whether the limerence would have disappeared. There is a lot about him, physically, intellectually etc that I do not find appealing (I’ve made lists of these traits along with a couple of unattractive photos that show this in an effort to get over him – a tactic I see is listed here).
We did 10 days of NC – but I then made contact as he unblocked me on FB and I could see that. Followed by other periods of blocking. I last got in contact this weekend to suggest we just do platonic messaging with the option to see how we both feel when it comes time for either of us to travel to the others country). We are currently NC. Clearly I now know that keeping options open is just degrading and not going to help me end this LE. I hope people esp SOs will not judge me too harshly for having acted upon my limerent episode rather than stopping short as most have done. I know I need to go fully NC. I am trying ‘tapping’ when I catch myself starting an intrusive thought. I have deleted the hundreds of screenshots of our messages from my phone. I also spent hours reading and rereading these as a way of reinforcing my infatuation. (Although they also made me sad as I could clearly see how less affectionate and just more self serving his messages became as things progressed). I’ve deleted two Spotify playlists that I used as a way of indulging and reinforcing my limerence. I’m trying to work on my marriage and sex life but don’t intend telling my SO about this as I think it would destroy him. I’ve been reading Esther Perel’s book about affairs to try to understand what is lacking in me that after 18 years of faithfulness I have behaved in this awful way & become trapped in this horrible limerent episode. Sorry for the huge brain dump.
Hey
Your deffinatly in the right place. It’s really tricky to reverse limerence but there’s some 1st class advice on here with lots of support. There is a really good deprogramming course here which I can recommend.
Thanks Rachel. I’m going to try that too. Really need to throw everything at this.
You can take a little comfort by a most of us are married and mostly happy but things have gotten off track. We know this is wrong and are trying to make this stop. Your not alone and it is very hard work. I came to your realisation about 7 months ago and I’m still here. If you can go NC then do it as some of us have to interact with LO on a regular basis causing limerence to drag on like a bitch. It’s ups and downs but there is light at the end of the tunnel.
Getting it all down on paper/blog can be cathartic as well as motivating. It will take a lot of work. It will continue to be painful. Thanks for sharing your experience thus far. You are on the right path.
Thanks Thinker. I need to find the balance between reading / writing / journaling as a positive move to overcome this LE – and stopping when it becomes clear it’s part of indulging myself and my limerent brain ….
My heart goes out to you, SGL.
I am glad you found this community. Take care.
Thanks Midlifer. I’ve been following your story too from the comments and hope you find peace of mind very soon too. Best wishes.
“I have even planned travelling to his city and the lies I would tell to make it happen. Awful but endlessly consuming.“
Oh I’ve been there. Thinking about how I could “sneak away” to LO and who I would have had to lie to to make it happen. All I wanted was to wake up next to LO one morning (that never happened). There were two things holding me back: a) I had to lie to someone close to me, and b) all the ways where this could go wrong and I would be busted: a speeding ticket where my SO would question my location, being involved with a car accident (even just witnessing one), a bill on the credit card in a city I have no reason to be, and the various ways I could be accidentally tracked on my phone on google maps or whatever, etc. the stakes were just too high. (Re-reading this before submitting: It shouldn’t happen because I am afraid to get caught, it shouldn’t happen because it is a despicable thing to do, stupid limerent brain)
@ScotsGlimmerLass, you made the first step to recovery: you found this blog, you educated yourself on limerence, and you realized that there is something wrong and you need to take action to change things. Awareness is the first step on a long way to free your mind from LO.
This site is great to help you through the process.
I found this page at my lowest in my LE, and I currently feel like the fog is lifting. It’s been with great support from this community here!
Hi ScotsGlimmerLass and welcome.
It sounds like you’re coming out of the euphoria phase of limerence and moving into the regret/comedown phase. That’s actually very good in terms of recovery. You can start to use those negative feelings to reprogram yourself from the “LO is sexy and exciting and really likes me and makes me feel good” routine into the “LO is sleazy and I’m wrecking my life” routine.
But the big step, and the guiding principle here, is figuring out what you want your life to be like. It’s useful to have the negative feelings and regrets to drive you away from LO, but you also have to have a purpose to work towards. Given your problems with your SO, it does seem likely that there’s your starting point. What do you want out of a marriage? What does he want? Is that something you can both work towards? What would your life be like if you could choose your ideal? What first step could you take towards that?
They are big questions, but really important ones because you have to feel like you are working towards something inspiring and important if you’re ever going to break out of the limerence addictive behaviour.
There’s lots of stuff on the site now which should help, and, as you’ve already found, loads of brilliant, helpful folks in the comments.
Many of whom have been where you are now…
Thanks for everyone for the welcome and the understanding. There was also a significant bereavement for both LO & I which may explain – or give context to – but not excuse our actions.
Sarah – yes, the planning! Even before I knew about limerence I knew I was enjoying the “romance” of all these endless mind wandering as more than the any possible reality (plus I had all the concerns about the damage that would be caused by getting caught). But how wrong it is was always felt scarily secondary. I do not like the person that I have become at all.
Dr L. Yes the key to this all is reframing my life to live purposefully and busily. Which I want to do anyway. My therapist has been trying to direct me towards sorting the issues with my SO – as clearly that should be my primary focus. Unfortunately during the limerent roller coaster rides of the last months I find I just can’t find the interest really to properly engage with my SO. This is truly awful I know. I am so emotionally volatile that it’s hard to have any conversations with him although we have made some progress on physical intimacy. I will keep trying. I want to see how I can work on our marriage and save what we have – a lot of which is really good. I am thinking of trying the Eight Dates book by Dr John Gottman as I think a structure of opening dialogue with my SO would help. We are both natural “sweep it under the carpet types” otherwise.
My greatest hope is that I can come out of this having only hurt myself and with a renewed energy & commitment in my marriage having nearly thrown it all away. The stories here in the comments show it’s possible to do this but I am pretty scared knowing it can be a long long road. I am lucky though in that I don’t ever have to see or work with my LO.
Toward the end, LO #2 and I were in my car. Steve Winwood’s “Higher Love” came. She kind of went into La-La Land. When the couplet,
“I could light the night up with my soul on fire
I could make the sun shine from pure desire”
She said to no one in particular, “That’s me. I can do that.”
I don’t remember saying anything but I remember thinking that if she was capable of that kind of passion, it had never been directed at me. I wonder if any man ever saw that from her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=524Tf0dNRNw
Quotes of the Day: From the Netflix series, “The Witcher.” I’ve never read the books or played the video game so I’m going strictly off what I’ve seen so far.
“Destiny helps people believe there’s an order to this horsesh*t. There isn’t.” – Geralt of Rivia, S1.Ep4: Of Banquets, Bastards and Burials
“Nobody smart plays fair.” – Yennefer of Vengerberg, S1.Ep5: Bottled Appetites
“Whatever you lack in talent, you make up for in confidence.” – Yennefer of Vengerberg, S1.Ep7: Before a Fall
“Think for yourselves. It’ll save you a lifetime of heartbreak.” – Yennefer of Vengerberg, S1.Ep7: Before a Fall
“People linked by destiny will always find each other.” – Visenna, S1.Ep8: Much More
I truly believe the last quote. But, what drives destiny?
Article of the Day: https://thoughtcatalog.com/lacey-ramburger/2020/02/these-are-the-zodiac-signs-everyone-loves-to-hate/
This is too funny!
LO #1: Gemini
LO #2: Virgo
LO #3: I think she was a Gemini but I don’t remember for sure.
LO #4: Scorpio
I don’t remember ever dating a Capricorn.
Who says the cosmos doesn’t have a sense of humor?
I must have just skimmed this post when I first read it months ago, probably because I’m not a very ‘spiritual’ person and don’t really buy into all that. And I would tend to agree with Dr. L’s conclusion about the neuroscience of limerence being a much more logical and practical explanation for all this. Until recently.
I really do believe LO is my twin flame. And I also know I’m probably full of shit due to the limerent fog.
Confession time. I recently found something of LO’s that is sort of a diary. Those of you who will admit the very stalker-like behavior that is experienced when the LE is in full-swing know the importance of finding something like this, and also that I was powerless to resist reading it, even though it is totally inappropriate and the most abject invasion of another person’s privacy. One thing LO wrote is that she struggles with something (I won’t say what exactly for fear she also may visit this site) very peculiar and specific that I often struggle with. It is something on an emotional level and has to do with thought patterns.
When I look at LO I feel I am looking directly into her soul, and she into mine. I feel so comfortable and safe discussing literally anything with her, yet we don’t even know each other that well. I have felt that way since the start of the LE but now have an incredibly deep confirmation of our soul connection since reading what I read.
But again, I also realize there is a distinct possibility that I’m full of shit.
I still think LO #2 understood me on a level that no one else ever has and likely ever will. She could look right through me. We didn’t have to talk because we JUST KNEW. She knows things about me that my wife doesn’t know after 30 years of marriage. With my wife, telling her those things didn’t seem important.
I could have the shields up, the phasers and photon torpedoes locked and loaded and she’d go through my defenses like water through a chain link fence. It took awhile to change that.
I got the same sort of vibe from LO #4 but we never had the chance to find out.
I think all my LOs were more kindred spirits than twin flames.
Doesn’t that ever make you incredibly sad that you could never have a long term relationship with her though? With someone with whom you have such an intense connection? I mourn for a relationship that doesn’t, and won’t, ever exist. The grief, my god the grief. I have grieved this more than the loss of any friend or family member.
Song of the Day: “Chasing Cars” – Snow Patrol (2006)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAFtvobURuE
I had a long term relationship with LO #2. With her at my side, I thought we’d have the world by the ass. 3 years in, I asked her to marry me. She declined and move across the country. I held out 2 more years in the hope she’d come around. She circled back twice but she never came around. The details are scattered around different blogs.
Sometimes, it doesn’t matter how much you love somebody or how hard you try. It’s never going to work.
You have met your one and only twin flame. Congratulations!
Until this LE crashes and burns.
Then, on to the next twin!
Touché. But in all seriousness, I have never experienced limerence before this, so I’m not the type to jump from LO to LO. And I am middle aged. It seems a lot of the commenters here are lifelong/serial limerents. Has something shifted in me so that now I will forever be prone to LEs? If so, I feel much more armed to deal with those feelings if they develop, now that I’ve found this site and read so much about it. That’s if and when I ever beat this current LE.
I am not a serial Limerent either, first time for me. The last time I felt anywhere close to what I am currently feeling for my LO was 25 years ago and I married him and he became my SO. I wasn’t Limerent for my SO as there was no barriers. My biggest mistake with my LO was thinking if I got to know him better the sparkle would dim, instead I liked him even more and developed feelings for him.
It doesn’t sit well with me to think that once this LE is over I’ll move to another LO.
PS, why are you embarrassed?
@ Lee-Anne: I have been limerent before, but never while married and not for over 20 years, so this is a new experience for me too. I have wondered and worried about whether I will become limerent for someone else again in the future, and it does worry me, but I sometimes wonder if displacing my limerent thoughts for my current LO with someone else — albeit at a much lower level — is a way to get over this? Is that a possible strategy for harm reduction, or is it playing with fire? Is it even possible to dial back on limerence for a new LO when we can spot signs of “the glimmer” before we become completely hooked?
“Is it even possible to dial back on limerence for a new LO when we can spot signs of “the glimmer” before we become completely hooked?”
Have you read:
https://livingwithlimerence.com/2018/07/19/displacement-activities/ & https://livingwithlimerence.com/2018/11/10/can-limerence-be-safely-harnessed/
If you’re really good, you may be able to pull it off. I did OK with it as long as LO #4 behaved herself. When she went off script, it unraveled. And, I was trying it under ideal conditions.
Ooh yes, a thousand times, this! The big peril when you’re trying to ride the wave of your own limerent high is that LO usually decides whether or not you wipeout.
@ Scharnhorst: Yes, I had read those two posts. They are relevant, but developing a new (albeit lesser) LE seems like a slightly different experience. I still have no real idea what caused “the glimmer” for me, so I don’t think I have that kind of self-awareness yet. It might not work for me when I don’t know exactly what attracted me in the first place. I meet hundreds of attractive women and I never become limerent for any of them, so who knows? Like Lee-Anne, I just want to get over this, and I need another LE like I need a hole in my head, but I was just speculating and thinking about a new LE as a displacement/harm reduction strategy, more as an intellectual curiosity than anything else.
The funny thing is that the night I met my LO, I also met another lady who was actually in my thoughts quite a bit the next day, but I soon started to forget about her as my attention turned to my LO. My full-blown limerence didn’t start until my family started talking about the events of that evening and I searched up my LO online on my brother in-law’s behalf and he started learning more about my LO as they texted each other back and forth. In many ways, I think I was just ripe for a limerent experience with someone/anyone due to my marriage and life situation, and it maybe didn’t matter all that much who was going to be the focus of my attention at that time. I have always thought my limerence was my mind’s way of subconsciously telling me something was deeply wrong in my marriage and my life (I am not putting down my LO in any way because I still think she is an amazing lady, but it probably was never really about her specifically).
Song of the Day: “Wipeout” – The Sufaris (1963)
It’s catchy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHSM2P4PALY
“The big peril when you’re trying to ride the wave of your own limerent high is that LO usually decides whether or not you wipeout.”
From my experience, having a transference of LEs really increases the mess — with my SO and especially in my head.
At the beginning of December, when I gave my second LO a single pink rose and a thank you card with a short letter, it was intended as a sincere expression of thanks for what she had given me, but also as a way to justify giving my first LO a single pink rose and a thank you card with a bit of a longer letter to thank her for what she had given me (they work for the same company, but in different facilities, and they do know each other). Yes, I will admit that I was just trying to get LO1 to contact me again, and at the time, I was unaware of the concept of limerence. LO1 wasn’t at work, and I asked the front desk to just leave the rose and card on her desk, hoping that it would surprise her and elicit another phone call. LO2 was at work, but I had been hoping to just leave her card and rose, but the front staff went and got her. With a bit of embarrassment, all I could stammer was along the lines of “I got these for you, since I didn’t think that I thanked you properly at the end of our final session. Don’t worry, it’s not a red rose. A pink rose only signifies gratitude and appreciation.” She handled it well, we had an awkward side hug and I said thanks and goodbye. As I drove off to do some shopping, I quickly found myself thinking “WTF (sorry) am I doing?” It seemed that I was trying to erase boundaries that LO1 had clearly stated early in sessions with her, and why did I include LO2, and what about perching on the moral cliff? I had already talked with one counselor about LO1 and what seemed like a failing romance with my SO, but now my head was exploding. I resolved to abstain from further attempts at contact with LO1 (she never phoned) and limited contact with LO2 until my head cleared. This is when googling lead me to LWL, and all of my thoughts about LO1 finally made sense in the context of limerence. I immediately contacted my counselor and arranged the earliest available appoint that he had. Quite the discussion. Arranged a joint session with SO, but didn’t disclose at this point, only stated that our marriage needed work, I was committed to her, and asked her to join me in marriage counseling (MC). Fairly unemotional OK from her and got referrals for MC. At this point, in my mind LO2 was not an LO . . . that realization was yet to unfold.
In my individual session with our MC, I confessed my limerence. Before the joint session, LO2 emailed me to check in and make sure that I hadn’t faltered and needed more help. I replied with a bit of an update and that physically, things were going OK. She replied back, praising me for my accomplishments. The next couple of days, rumination about LO2 started to occur. “Shoot! Shoot! Shoot! No! No! No! My limerence can’t be transferring!” It took another individual session until I came to the conclusion that it would be best to disclose to my SO at our second joint session. Disclosure led to clarity for SO, but also has her questioning which of my brains (logical or limerent) is doing the talking when we have discussions or which one is driving my decisions. We agreed to have a long conversation about these issues before our next MC session. Sitting in the in a secluded park, we talked. We established boundaries. When it came to LO2, I hesitated. I couldn’t make the pen move to write that it would be complete no contact for her. I broke down into tears, head against the window, unable to look at my SO. Regained my composure with some deep breaths and wrote it down. My SO said, “Now you know why it has to be no contact.” Wacky thing is that rumination from that point on has been about LO1 and mostly consider LO2 to have been a good friend candidate — which brain is talking?
At times it seems that it would be easier to just bag it all and be alone. Then I see the photos that I am retrieving off of old disk drives. Our teenagers as infants and toddlers. Pictures of the happy family. What happened? I want that back. I have to work to get that back. Work. It’s not going to just happen on its own.
I view limerence more like a rip current, trying to pull me away from shore with the goal of getting me to the fantasy island off in the distance, while all I really want is to reach the safety of the beach. Getting dashed by waves as I swim sideways looking to get out of the rip to be able to make my way back to shore.
After reading my prior post this morning, maybe a bit more information will clear up all of the “sessions” mentioned. My LOs are both physical therapists (PTs) — I had some major surgery, where complications on top of its usual side effects required a quite a bit of work to recover and get ready for the next phase of treatment. What they both gave me was improved quality of life going forward. LO1 also had to deal with how an incidental finding caused me some serious fear. She encouraged me to seek counseling to deal with it and didn’t invalidate my fears like my SO seemed to do. I was very lucky and what seemed very suspicious on an MRI ended up being totally benign. After the delay, further medical treatment (radiation therapy) lead to a reemergence of physical issues and this is where LO2 came into the picture. My limerence seems layered quite differently than the majority. Bonding with your therapist leads to a commitment to do the therapeutic work, but has consequences when you’re a limerent.
@ Kramer: It sounds like the strategy of transferring limerence to a new LO is a difficult and challenging one, and one that isn’t likely to solve (or even reduce) the problem. More importantly, the latter part of your post really speaks to me. The post Dr. L wrote on Rewriting History is an interesting one because it mentions the tendency of limerents to engage in revisionism with respect to their marriages and try to pretend things were bad all along and reframe even positive, happy memories as negative ones. But, like you, I am experiencing the opposite. I know if my wife and I divorced, she would be the one to negate all of our positive memories and try to make it out like everything was bad all along and even the happy and good times we shared as a family were a sham all along. I would rather we separated as people who still love and care about each other but grew apart and couldn’t make it work out, but I know she would never go for that. It would be scorched earth from her perspective. One of the things that really holds me back from ending our marriage is that thought because remembering the love and companionship we shared is important to me. I think about how sad it would be to lose that history and the shared experiences. I am committed to working on our relationship at least for a certain period of time, but I feel like everything is on hold right now with this pandemic. We can’t schedule date nights and I don’t think we can go for counselling right now. I also feel like spending so much time together is going to cause a major strain on our marriage. But if we ever did break up, I would want it to be like this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC0DNLDXJW8
One thing I probably didn’t make clear on my post above is I realize that Dr. L’s post on Rewriting History was mainly about people who left their SO for their LO or had an affair. That might be the difference between limerents who try to rewrite history and those who don’t. I have no interest in engaging in revisionism. While there were always issues and challenges in our marriage, there were love, affection, tenderness and good times.
Our marriage counselor (MC) and my individual counselor have both sent emails stating that further sessions would be by video. I’m not too keen on trying it. MC thinks that she’s done as much as she can for us. We do seem to be working it out, but sometimes the pull of that fantasy island still makes me wonder whether just giving in and letting the current pull me out to sea and . . . damn limerent brain!
I thought LO#4 was my soulmate and that I had never experienced a connection so close and so powerful. He was a perfect fit for me and I was for him. He just got me. 16 years later, I now know my exLO#4-now-husband-and-best-friend does not get me completely, he is just great at pretending to listen. Our connection peaks when we are negotiating over who’s turn it is to put the kids to bed. We love each other and I am happy but we are certainly not soulmates and have all the same marital niggles as anyone else including a lack of desire for each other. LO#5 now dominates my dreams, emotions and desires.
It’s normal to change over time, especially over long periods of time. Eventually, we wear out each other’s welcome, or someone changes in a direction we can’t live with.
Very true, ParadoxHighway! I also think that people often hide their true selves for years and end up trying to be something/someone they’re not just to please their partners. That was certainly my case. I feel like I was the “good little boy” who did as he was told by his wife for years, but in allowing myself to be dominated, controlled and cut off from my true self, the resentment built. In many ways, the way I am growing apart from my wife is not so much based on me changing, but rather on me wanting to be my true self again. I am reminded of this song (even if the video doesn’t really match what I am thinking):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXYiU_JCYtU
Like B said, I also thought my LO was a twin flame, because that’s the only thing that I found to describe it before finding out about limerence, and it’s my first real LE.
I would be interested to have a post or topic about limerent embarrassment, or deconstructing the limerent experience after it’s over. I’m having a hard time coming to terms with the fact that, again like B said, I’m full of shit.
I always thought that the fact that there was some reciprocation was a sign that I wasn’t completely full of shit, but now I’m beginning to doubt that, and it’s leaving me with a very embarrassing feeling about the whole thing. How do I move beyond this embarrassment and shame in order to constructively learn from this, make sense of it and move on?
PS, it would be a good blog topic! (Dr. L?). I truly cringe with embarrassment when I think of the disclosure, when I think of my devotion, my ultra-availability and my certainty that we would end up together dancing into the sunset…but do you know how I deal with it? If I start to think those humiliating thoughts I say out loud “SHHHH” and force myself to think of something else. It really works! Also, I imagine talking to a good friend who went through the same thing and I reassure that friend “don’t be too hard on yourself, there WERE signals, it wasn’t all in your head, but now you are wiser and you are strong enough to let it all go and move on. Don’t be embarrassed, you think and feel and love deeply, you are sincere and a little naive and that certainly is not a crime, it’s part of why I like you so much”.
🙂
I feel better after that imaginary conversation! Embarrassment and humiliation isn’t very productive…best to let it go. You can do this!
I find that embarrassment helps me to get over limerence. I had thought I was turning the corner and finally getting over it this past week after two things happened: (1) my father gave me shit for going on about my LO when I hardly know her and there are other problems to worry about in our family; and (2) a flurry of commenting that started off early last week with my update on a song that makes me think of my LO (with the same name as hers) and some anecdotes about my wife’s “jokes” about my LO. I find that things are more or less back to “normal” now after about five days of dramatically reduced limerence, but I found that shame, anger (at myself), embarrassment and being told how stupid I was being by loved ones helped me to see the situation more clearly and focus on just how illogical and self-indulgent it all is. I also found that discussing my situation at length on this site was quite cathartic. Perhaps these are some additional strategies we can incorporate into our anti-limerence toolkit? The end result is only a very minor permanent reduction in my overall state of limerence, but even the temporary relief was welcome and helpful, as it helped me to think clearly for a while and remember what life was like before limerence.
Hi VL, I was talking about getting over the embarrassment once the LE was over, and all that was left was the humiliating memories….but yes, WHILE still in limerence, embarrassment is a wonderful reality check….ride that wave until you kill the limerence once and for all!
Vicarious Limerent- I wouldn’t be game to transfer my LE to another LO, I’ve given almost 3 years of my life to my current LO and really don’t want to give another few years to someone else.
I don’t feel embarrassed as such but I have a lot of anger in me. Anger that I let myself succumb to these feelings for him. Anger that I can’t shake this shit, not even after 14 weeks of little to N/C.
I just want it to be gone, I want to stop missing him.
Hi Lee-Anne,
I’m in NC, too, yet I dare not stop missing her. To do so is to stop missing a joyous part of myself. All I can do is recreate some of that joy on my own, knowing my few candles in the wind will never match her 800,000,000 candlepower – and it takes a while to be ok with that. I’m nowhere near that point yet, but I can see it now in the distance, off in the future.
I hear you Lee-Anne! Me too. I guess it was intellectual curiosity more than anything that prompted my question. Take care!
I too thought LO was my twin flame since there was some sort of consistent (hot and cold) reciprocation too. Looking back, LO was probably just a fuckboy that likes to string people along by toying with their emotions to feed his ego. Or maybe he didn’t really think of it as anything, it’s me who read too much into it. Or maybe he’s scared, or he’s emotionally immature, or he’s just born selfish… I can keep going.
Whatever the heck the reason is, his actions show that he’s just not that into me, and he doesn’t make me feel safe and loved in a way I truly deserve (because I never knew I actually deserve more except for sporadic attention, I didn’t know what a healthy reciprocal relationship looks like.). Something’s just off, I couldn’t see that cause I was too busy living in TF la la land, I kept convincing myself things are getting better and one day he’ll come around.
Don’t be embarrassed, we all make a fool out of ourselves sometimes because we didn’t know better, what matters is what we get out of the experience, be kind and compassionate towards yourself.
“Do your best until you know better.”
Help! Would love any advice on how to handle the following:
I’ve been in waves of intense limerence over the last 5 years and I haven’t even seen him (my LO) in 6+ years. We dated briefly for 3-4 months (6 years ago), never exclusively or on a “boyfriend/gf” level. It was filled with HIGH HIGHS when he reciprocated, and low lows when he didn’t of course. I will never TRULY know if he is just an LO (and not a twin flame or soul mate) because I sort of lied about my feelings for him. Always playing hard to get and pushing him away in hopes that would draw him in more. DUMB!
Anywho, fast forward 6 years later and he is still one of my first thoughts when waking up. I’m married with a wonderful husband who I love… but just a few simple Instagram DMs from LO and it’s enough to send me into a whirlwind limerence fantasizing loop. All I do is fantasize about him. He asked to get coffee when he’s in town recently and I turned him down. (Trying to do the right thing) :{
He may or may not know that I sill have feelings for him. I’ve hinted it here and there. I told him the energy between us is still there, he vaguely agreed that “energy never dies”. Also, he asked to get coffee as I mentioned… He obviously knows I’m married and is not the kind of guy to go out on the line and confess his feelings to a married women. But I’ve never fully told him I’ve got intense feelings for him. Also, how stupid would I sound telling a man I haven’t even seen in 7 years that I never got over him!!
What do I do, move on w/ my SO or confess my feels to the LO and shoot my shot?!?!
Hi Unfinished. I don’t know what you should do.
After that hugely helpful intervention, I do have a few thoughts:
1) This hook is deep in your subconscious because you know you didn’t handle the relationship in an authentic way, so it feels like you might have missed out on something great because you played it wrong. Unfortunately, that’s the reality of playing games – you attract players, but repel authentic people. You can’t go back in time, so failing that, you need to look at the future you want.
2) You have a great SO, but are full of compulsive craving for LO. That excited exhilaration will fade. No-one is limerent forever (unless they have abnormal reward circuitry, which would not be pleasant). You have two routes to relief – give in to the craving, end your marriage and try and sate yourself by getting back together with LO, or decide to let go of the fantasy and build a purposeful future with SO.
Now, I’ve obviously framed that in a biased way (based on my personal decisions), but actually either option is legit if you are honest with everyone and yourself.
3) If you try to start an affair to “scratch the itch” all your emotional problems will worsen, and your limerence will likely be amplified. Plus you have to live with yourself afterwards when it finally wears off.
But, perhaps the most important first step is to really understand what you want. Not just at the level of “I want LO so much”, but at the level of “who am I?”
Hope that’s some help!
Hey! It’s me again, almost one year later… with a massive update.
Well I tried to take your advice and forget about my LO. About 6 months ago, I first confessed my feelings for him in hopes he would say he doesn’t feel the same and that would make me move on. That didn’t happen, he told me I’m still on his mind til this day too.
Well, long story short I still tried to forget about him and move on with my SO (husband). I blocked my LO on all social media for a few months and tried to stay away. He found a way to get ahold of me. My feelings for him of course persisted. So much so that it caused me so much stress I started to feel IMMENSE guilt for being fully in love still with my LO. My hair was falling out, severe neck and back pain and eczema breakouts all over my body. I knew something had to change..
No matter how hard I’ve tried for the last 6-7 years I still can’t get my LO out of my mind despite no communication and maximum effort to move on with my husband.
So, last November 2020, I decided to do what has to be done and let my husband go. We are now getting a divorce and In the process my LO has totally moved in for the kill. Respectfully of course. But we have plans to see each other for the first time in 7 years next month. I figure I at least can get to the bottom of this once and for all hopefully. I really hope this ends well for me.
Could my LO actually be my Twin Flame given the details mentioned?
Any help much appreciated! X
Unfinished,
I hope things work out for you. I applaud you for getting out of what you were in instead of staying in it year and year while ruminating over someone else.
“My hair was falling out, severe neck and back pain and eczema breakouts all over my body.”
@Unfinished. That really doesn’t sound good. Sorry to hear about the stress you’ve experienced. Eczema is the worst. I get it occasionally, but never thought of it before as caused by stress.
Hi Unfinished,
Thanks for the update – but what a year…!
Really sorry to hear how badly the ongoing limerence has affected you. It is really tough to get away from an LO who pursues you so determinedly. It sounds like you tried to make it work with your husband, so you have the knowledge that it wasn’t a lack of effort that caused the marriage to ultimately fail.
You’ve made a purposeful choice now. That’s a positive step. I really hope it works out for you.
As for your LO being a true Twin Flame… I remain sceptical 🙂 But I do hope that the relationship between you goes well – and also that your husband finds peace too once all the limerence chaos has passed.
Blimey, I think I’m having a mid life crisis.
After splitting with the a partner of 14 years, I was elated to be single again.
Until I became limerent for a man 20 years younger than me. I had the realisation yesterday I was absolutely obsessed and I felt like I was embarrassing myself. I’m sure he knows.
He’s an alcoholic mess and I’ve always been a rescuer. Thank God I found this site.
We both live abroad and we only have each other as friends. So NC will be hard….but for my sanity I’m going to withdraw.
I feel like crap right now but knowing this site is here really helps.
Wish me luck!
I’ve recently moved on from my limerence experience that lasted for about a year. I used to have a fearful avoidant attachment style now leaning secure and a little avoidant. Before meeting this person, I didn’t know what twin flames were and knew little about spirituality. I study psychology, I’ve always been a pretty rational person, although I was aware I had low self-esteem and showed covert narcissistic tendencies due to childhood traumas.
Not long after ending a toxic long-term relationship last year, I met LO and I swear I no one has ever made me feel this way before and somehow I just randomly found out about the twin flame concept and subsequently went through the whole spiritual awakening experience, in which I consciously thought I was legit losing my mind so I didn’t tell my friends or family about any of it cause I didn’t want anyone to think I was crazy.
LO was sending mixed signals, and was consistently hot and cold. He would initiate contact most of the time and I never really “chase” him, but he did stir up my emotions big time. Like every time he suddenly pulls away and the uncertainty of when he’ll decide to appear in my DMs again(*eyeroll emoji*) made me so uncomfortable I just HAD to make it stop, even the ‘euphoric high’ started to annoy me. At some point silly me thought moving on was me running away from the ‘tf connection’.. so i was trapped in an endless loop.
I was in such agony especially in the first 2-3 months I would be in the shower and suddenly break down bawling my eyes out (which had never ever happened to me before), and I wasn’t always crying about the person, I didn’t even know what I was crying about. Even initiating contact like I normally would give me anxiety attacks, and I would suddenly feel extreme negative emotions out of nowhere(?). I was completely aware of how abnormal it was, and I was seeing signs, names, numbers, among many other unexplainable coincidences, so I really gave the twin flame concept the benefit of the doubt. I tried to learn as much about spirituality(and philosophy) as I could and found so many similarities between personality/mental disorders and certain spiritual experiences.
I got my answer, I was in love with the idea of him, but I was too scared to actually get to know him. As I started to bravely express myself authentically with this person I finally get to see him for who he is, and he is not what I thought he was but I ignored all the red flags and only saw what I wanted to see. When you feel whole by yourself, if spending time with someone actually takes that peace away from you instead of adding extra happiness to your life, you’re actually better off on your own! That’s how people (in healthy relationships) without personality/mental disorders perceive the world.
Eventually I figured out the way to end it is, as cliche as it sounds, to love myself, see my worth, and be authentic. I was left with no choice but to confront my biggest fears and learned to express my feelings and emotions regardless of the outcome, I overcame the fear of abandonment and rejection through painful triggers with LO, by recognizing old patterns and crap that was hidden deep inside me for years.
Whether twin flames exist or not, the label really does more harm than good, the promising idea that once you’re ‘energetically balance’ a specific person will fall in love with you is very unhealthy and dangerous, you would rationalize disrespectful behaviors (like ghosting), or interpret the other person just not showing interest as something that has to do with you, you keep giving them excuses and you end up taking things personally. In reality, you should never let anyone treat you less than you deserve.
Maybe it was limerence, or this person is indeed my soul mirror, or maybe limerence and twin flames are basically talking about the same thing. Like science and spirituality, they’re both trying to explain the nature of reality. So at the end of the day I did grow and learn a lot from the experience, I’ve rediscovered my values, needs, and standards to set up boundaries I never had before. I’m more emotionally mature/stable, responsible, calm, honest, and resilient than ever. No one owes you anything, if people don’t reciprocate, it just means they’re not the right person for you.
I consider myself a twin flame and despite being very sane very unusual things occurred around him. His every color turned my eye color when he bowed to me, I had outer body experiences when meditating with him, dreams then happened the next time I was with him, oh yes he glowed gold in color and lit up the room on a cloudy day when I meditated with him, we experienced telepathy, the list goes on. It’s what me me unable to shake him. He glowed like the damn sun itself for Christ’s sake! Let alone the immediate recognition i had and the fact that I felt his presence since childhood. Despite the past few years of heaven and hell in what I think is a twin flame journey I’m done with a capitol D. I could not be more thankful for you Dr. L. I never knew what limerence was and I can’t get enough of learning how to get my life back. I’m half way through ( day one of learning about this website) and for the first time since 2014, I feel empowered to get my life back. I don’t care about all the trippy sh&t he displayed in the form of his so called enlightened powers or if it’s a twin flame supernatural experience. I can’t believe I’m saying I don’t care, even this is amazing!!! To me, I can clearly see now, it’s all glimmer. I am forever thankful. This has not been an easy few years to say the least. I have a long long road ahead as my LO lives and works within one mile of me in a small town. His beautiful wife is always pissed off at me around town. No, this isn’t easy. I’m 47 and dealing with my out of control emotions. I feel weird and abnormal. It’s embarrassing and vulnerable and raw. But, I’m ready to fully feel the pain and go through the behavioral work with the help of your course. I see a way out. I have a chance at getting my life back. To me this is the most beautiful thing. I get to be me again free from him. Thank you.
Every so often you run into someone who just seems extraordinary.
In 1979, I was dating LO #1. She was a taking a class called Magic, Mysticism, and Power. She said the prof was a Shaman. I posted about the one time I met elsewhere. The class text was Xeroxed and titled “The God Force and How to Use It.” I bought it and kept it for years. It was a fun read. I think it’s been published https://www.amazon.com/God-Force-How-Use/dp/1329962192. I’d buy it but they want $25 for it. It covered OOBE and Astral Travel.
LO #1 claimed she learned to read auras from the class and the notes. It had a table explaining what the different colors meant, how you could identify the location of a physical ailment from the distortion of the aura, and a few other things about them. Both she and the prof did the Positive Flowing thing and, I swear, I could feel it. I tried it on my daughter once and she claimed she felt it.
One day she was at my apartment and said something about her boyfriend, who she was cheating on with me. She said that my aura turned black and shrank. Then she said she’d told me what she did so she could see if my aura changed. According to her, it did.
To my knowledge, it’s the only time someone has run a psychic Sh-t Test on me.
It was an interesting experience but I didn’t want to base my life on it.
Article of the Day: https://thoughtcatalog.com/lacey-ramburger/2021/03/these-are-the-zodiac-signs-you-do-not-want-to-argue-with/
Me: Aquarius
LO #1: Gemini
LO #2: Virgo
LO #3: Gemini (Pretty sure)
LO #4: Scorpio
Wife: Pieces
Can I pick ’em or what?!
My LO was Scorpio. He was interesting, deep and in a lot of emotional pain. During our last interaction, I asked him about something he posted in a public forum about me. A mutual acquaintance alerted me. It was disrespectful and I wish she had not told me but I decided to not let it go. Naturally, he lashed out at me. A true Scorpio and a destructive, toxic personality, he said things that he believed would hurt me on the deepest level. They did, but not the way they would have a year ago. The real hurt was his post in the forum. That he would betray my trust…he told me many things that I would never share. If I don’t have loyalty, even to someone who no longer deserves it, what do I have?
I told him that what he posted had been a moment of heartlessness and that wasn’t the real him. Those are the last words I will say to him, I would guess. They were not unkind and I would never want them to be unkind. Even if what I felt for him was Limerence and not love, I still would not want to hurt him.
I never believed in Tarot cards or any of that but when I was struggling at the end of my marriage, I went to card readers. They seemed to guess right on many things, but maybe they were skilled in honing in on general troubles.
2 years passed
i scrolled instagram and i saw a beautiful face like a little chicky in explore.
first i wished she was my little sister, then i realized she is only 2 years younger than me, i was 19 and she was 17, so i thought wow she is my ideal love, because when i just looked at her face i instantly fell in love with her (or became limerent)
after 2 weeks i got fucked up, how? every damn bad memory from past came out,
first i thought because she is successful and im fucked up these emotions are coming out, but there were many other people like her , so i tried to figure it out wtf is going on in my brain and i started to learn about relationship mindsets, skills of attraction (flirting, body language and…) and personal development but they didn’t worked, then i got in to spirituality and ego death and all that crazy things and finally i got to this idea of Twin Flames, and that was answering WTF is going on in my brain, this connection can trigger all of suppressed emotions from the past memories, so i started to shadow work and feeling the pain(i got this advice from a professional therapist too) and i got better, (at least not suicidal or super depressed) and i can say i healed most of the past wounds because i really feel i never had those mental wounds in this moment, but this connection still remains, she comes to my mind and i become crazy like someone who is on weed and feels super high, and i cant understand WHAT THE HELL is going on right now.
What if it doesn’t fade? What if it’s been years and you’ve done the no contact, the focusing on other things, the working on your mind stuff, you’veworked on your triggers that they may bring up through rejection etc..but there is this nonsensical pull, unrealistic draw to them? What does it mean..do I need therapy, am I crazy, I feel crazy in my mind and pull everything apart logically, rationally, and I just cannot explain it at all. I try to see him like a reflection, the things in him that trigger toxic responses or reactions from me I delve into those things and heal them within myself, I get to the point of surrender, in that I am okay with the outcome either way, I am okay with that it could be one sided..hell, it makes complete sense to me that it is one sided, and yet there’s things that happen I cannot explain as in spiritually on a deeper level. I’ve even tried hypnosis to stop it.
I think this article is on point. I am a very spiritual person. I also bought into the twin flame bandwagon. Although I first heard the term used in Steven Gunn book When Two Souls Connect, back in like 2009. You could hardly find anything about it on the internet or in book stores. Not saying that they didn’t exist at that time, i just I wasn’t finding them. Soulmate books yes, twin flame books, no. So fast forward 12 years later and EVERYWHERE you can find info on it. And everyone claims to have met their ultimate half. Then you have so called twin flame experts and twin flame coaches etc. that claim they can reunite you with your flame or they’ll help you manifest your twin flame. Not to mention, for a ridiculous amount of money. Seriously just taking advantage of people. Most of these people have NO IDEA what they are talking about. They just regurgitate the same stuff that all the other twin flame experts are talking about or writing about. The one that cracks me up the most is the LAW OF ATTRACTION SOLUTIONS an older dude on YouTube. He’s a joke. I think he’s a huge fraud. There is also a “twin flame expert” on Quora that is always answering people’s questions about their “twin flame” and gives the same answers over and over. She claims she is in union with her twin. I think this journey is really about finding self love and helping you along your spiritual journey.
I dont know, I feel that telling ANYONE that they are having a limerent episode when they have feelings for someone else is just as ridiculous as you saying the twin flame theory is crazy. It is totally possible to develop feelings for another person if you are with someone or married. Iam not saying it is right but it can happen. Maybe you just fall head over heels in love with someone else and you can’t help it,
Maybe you are staying in a relationship you arent truly happy in and BAM someone comes along and you are head over heels for them. Why does it have to be limerance just because you are in a committment with someone else. We are human and are going to possibly develop feelings or a deep connection with someone. We aren’t all crazy! Maybe it is true love or a deep connection that we have never experienced before. Not sure i believe in this limerance crap either.
The is much more to a limerent episode than just having feelings for someone. And you are correct in that if someone is in committed relationship and they fall in love with someone else, it is not necessarily limerence.
I refer you to below for a description:
https://livingwithlimerence.com/what-is-limerence/