May 19th Edit: Paypal payments now enabled.
I’ve mentioned a few times recently that I’ve been working on a new course to help limerents who find themselves deep in the person-addiction pit and desperate to get out. Well, it’s live!
Regular readers will know that my view of limerence is that it is a part of our personalities and can be a source of great pleasure and creativity. But it’s also a massive emotional and psychological burden when it goes wrong, becomes an addiction, and traps us in a cycle of dependency for someone who we can’t (or don’t want to) form a healthy bond with.
That’s where I found myself when I started this site, and that’s the basis of this course. I’ve gathered together the most useful techniques I’ve learned for managing limerence, and shaped them into a programme that leads step by step through the principles for recovery. It’s a progression of ideas: understand how limerence starts and deepens, use that knowledge to tactically reprogram yourself, anticipate obstacles to recovery, and devise a personal action plan for success. For limerents who find themselves in this trap, it should greatly increase the likelihood of escaping with minimal injury to yourself and others.
At this point, I’d also like to give a shout out to some of the regular commenters and readers here who have helped me by beta-testing this programme over the last few months. It’s had almost universally positive feedback, which is great, but it’s also now much better for the constructive criticism and questioning that the beta-team have sent on. Thank you all!
So, a bit more info:
What this course is
- An emergency intervention based on principles from neuroscience and psychology, to turn the volume down on your limerence
- A strategic approach to managing rumination and contact with your LO
- An action plan for dealing with the current limerence episode, and for making better long-term decisions
- A method for future-proofing yourself against other LOs and other limerence risks
- A living thing: I’ll keep adding and refining the course into the future as we learn more and have new ideas
What this course is not
- A cure for limerence (because it is not a disease, after all)
- Psychotherapy (the tactics draw on principles of cognitive behavioural therapy in places, but personal therapy is a longer term and individual activity)
- A passive tool (just watching the videos will help, but fundamentally, recovery requires taking action)
A detailed description of the course content is at the Emergency deprogramming course site. I’d encourage anyone who thinks they could benefit to take a look.
A final hope is that this will also be a constructive way to help fund the costs of keeping the blog alive. I’ll keep writing the free stuff of course – and for many people that may be enough. But reading and thinking only gets you so far, and for those that are ready, this could be a decisive next step. The first psychological trigger of the course is that we value what we pay for, and financial commitment tends to deepen emotional commitment to sticking with a plan. For those that want more structure and focus, it’s another useful spur towards success, with the side-benefit that it helps strengthen the foundations here too.
Let’s hope that virtuous cycle spins!
Cool!
Have you considered putting up a PayPal donation button? LO #4 had one on her site.
I have considered it. As Vincent says below, I’ve put a lot of thought into what I want to do with the site, and how I want to sustain it. One possibility I might go with is a “friends of the blog” option where anyone can pay what they can afford to get access to some extra materials (Mark Manson does something similar). But I’d probably go with a one off payment rather than subscription.
Thoughts?
I don’t know how well the PayPal donation worked for LO #4. She got $50 or so out of me ovwe the years.
The friends of the site I like.
Why does it cost SO much, though?! Surely the site doesn’t need THAT much money?
Assuming that there are about 15-20 regular readers on this site, as some may not comment, and around half would actually feel they need the course, that’s around £536 (lower number due to undesirable high price). I don’t think that’s what it costs to keep the site up…
Wow you’ve made a whole load of assumptions there! I’m sure Dr L knows the traffic to his website, and has thought hard about the pricing. Worth also noting that schoolchildren clearly aren’t the target market so your idea of what something is worth is going to be different from an Adult’s who is earning a regular wage.
Also, as Sophie says this blog is a fantastic free resource, that has helped me enormously. Whilst I no longer need emergency deprogramming I am going to sign up anyway as module 3 looks like something I need, and I’m very happy to give back something to recognise the immense effort that has gone into this site.
It’s a understandable question Anon Lim, but Vincent is right – I put a lot of thought into the price. The running costs of the blog are higher than I expected, but the two main factors are:
1) As I said in the post: the first psychological trigger for the course is paying. I could get more signups (and probably more money overall) if I made it cheaper, but I don’t want people who are only half serious taking the course, because it won’t work. There will be loads of churn as people drop out. The price has to balance psychological commitment against affordability. The plain truth is that people will value it more and take it more seriously if they have had to pay enough to feel it. It makes it more of an investment in themselves than a disposable resource.
2) This site, much as I value it, has taken a significant amount of time, energy and money out of my family’s resources. They have been very supportive, but it’s come to the point where I need it to contribute back in (and at least buy back some of my time and attention by getting professional IT support). This seems a sustainable way of doing that.
Edited to add: Somewhat belatedly, it occurs to me that there is a third reason: there is a lot of high quality material in the course too!
Okay, fair enough. The price is just a lot higher than I expected for a digital resource that doesn’t use any real materials (paper, metal, ink etc.) to make. But I can understand (if only partially) your reasoning for it.
Nothing is free. At the very least Dr. L. has made a substantial time committment to the bkog and the modules.
He has the advantage of knowing what he is paid hourly and how much of his life is spent tending the blog. Plus time and attention diverted from his family, in whom he finds worth and value.
@Anonymous Limerent
Compared to the cost of therapy, that is very reasonable indeed. I wouldn’t have been able to get even 2 full 50min sessions with my counsellor for the price of the whole course! And no way of going back to refer to my sessions afterwards either.
You’re also clearly undervaluing the time and effort it must take DrL to actually run this site, let alone develop the course. Whilst I obviously don’t know the proper numbers, the amount of hours DrL must have invested in the site/course would make it all fall far far below the minimum wage!!
I agree, the cost of the course is very reasonable, especially considering the time it took to develop it and the time to run and monitor the blog and website that is an important additional [and free] resource to the course.
Not to mention the initial use of a therapist is a crap-shoot anyway, because sometimes it takes a lot of wasted time and money before you even find a therapist with experience in healing from infidelity. I have encountered many therapists claiming they have experience with relationships affected by affairs, just to find out after the first or second session that they are clueless when it comes to dealing with infidelity.
I think Anonymous Limerent meant “thank you Dr L for making time and effort to provide this useful resource to all those that are suffering, we are eternally grateful.”
Day 1 of NC for me, I looked for his car on the road today but no anxiety attack when I didn’t see it. I deliberately left 5 min later this morning knowing I’d have a 99% chance in not seeing him. Resisted the urge to floor the gas pedal, speed up and run orange lights to make up for said 5 minutes, instead turned up the volume on a particularly peppy pop song. The kids were bemused.
Big test tomorrow, I know LO will most probably be around the usual place and I must resist driving past and having my coffee, gulp…….
Thanks for sharing your story. After 3 months of No Contact after much history, my LO came back to work part-time for 5 months and her role finished last week. We definitely were friendly in the office and kept in touch these last few months and had lunch last Wednesday. I will also admit that we did continue a closeness after No Contact ended that definitely involved sharing (mostly via email), as that was our modus operandi during my limerence. We were both trying to figure things out. This recent period was surprisingly bearable (the time before No Contact I had much less control of my life), but the scars of limerence were still there, as well as lower level limerence too. There is love between us, but it is not destined to be.
I am not sure if No Contact has started again. What I mean by that, is that I am not reaching out to LO, but I also do not have her blocked. And there will be future times when we cross paths. While she was at the office, I needed to do what I had to in order to manage my limerence since I would be around her. I also continued to learn about myself. Her presence is a real trigger (REALLY!? LOL), so I expect to be productive today as there is no chance of seeing her. I’m sure she will email me at some point and we’ll see what happens from there. I know how attributes of her personality fan the flames of my limerence and these are attributes that in my younger and single days would have shut everything down on my end before it began. STAY AWAY FROM THIS ONE-IT WILL ONLY BRING PAIN
My limerence began with being work friends for a few years, combined with mutual attraction. Then came a point where we began to discuss life during lunch, and a different closeness developed, but not yet the crushing limerence. However in hindsight, this closeness was a set up for the inevitable bomb of limerence, which was set off when she announced she was leaving the office. At the time, I had no idea why my life spun completely out of control. I could not hide my emotions completely from my SO, and I did admit to SO that I was sad from LO leaving work but I framed it more as being disappointed with my office for the circumstances that led to her departure. But my grief was unbearable. I would have paid anything for this EDC 2 years ago.
“”However in hindsight, this closeness was a set up for the inevitable bomb of limerence””
I can relate to this comment so much, my limerence “bomb” went off when my LO’s SO dropped her bundle and we had a fall out (up till then his SO and I were good friends). I was so confused, I couldn’t understand why she was so angry, I honestly could not see what I’d done wrong. Looking back with clearer eyes I can see our constant talking (nothing intimate though), body language and perhaps my LO’s extra laser attention on me set off alarm bells in her. There was a mutual attraction (again in hindsight) and we thought ignoring it and pretending it wasn’t there would make it go away. When I had the fall out with LO’s SO I was devastated and distraught, I could not work out why my feelings were so intense, I think I cried for days and my SO was bemused but not suspicious. Thus began the slippery slope of over analysing every word and look, obsessing, rehashing past conversations (this one in particular drove me nuts), and being super sensitive of LO’s presence almost to hyper levels. I don’t know what agreement was made between my LO and his SO but they both withdrew from me (understandably), I was angry, hurt, confused and had violent mood swings bordering depression. To confuse matters more after 2 months NC LO re-established contact and we “drifted” with no turbulence for 6 months, it was torture 2nd guessing his every move, walking on eggshells around his SO. Ten months later his SO and I have mended fences and we have a cautious but friendly relationship, the only fly in the ointment is my persistent and intrusive feelings for him which waxes and wanes like a roller coaster.
Red flag moment came last week when I caught myself slipping back into old habits and LO sending out mixed signals, I seriously don’t want to go back to where I was last year so it has to be back to NC.
So today again I didn’t see his car on the road but I did see it parked in its usual spot for coffee. No massive mood swings but I did almost go in, even had a perfect excuse as I bumped into a friend who invited me for coffee. I said yes then quickly changed my mind and said no I can’t. Drove off quickly before I could change my mind, instead of feeling down I actually felt triumphant that I was strong enough not to cave and go in. Car was still there as I drove past after appointment but gone after dropping child x off at school, strangely did not feel disappointed, actually more relieved, I think I finally exhaled slowly.
Me – 1 LO – 0
Thank You Dr L
no more to say – your a legend.
Hi! I haven’t visited this blog in awhile (2 months?) because I was feeling better and better and think less and less about my LO. As of last Friday, I have been almost 9 months of NC with my LO. Then on Saturday I received a message from my LO out of the blue. I was surprised yet elated and debated for hours whether to respond. Finally, I failed and responded on Sunday, and all that feeling of elation and misery came back erasing all progress made in the last 9 months. Then as if by Divine intervention, in my inbox was a message from DrL about the course (I subscribed to the list). I haven’t reviewed the course syllabus, but it is like a wake up call, a reminder to always be vigilant. Thank you, DrL, for all your efforts.
Similar story here Sad but a shorter period of NC. I’m amazed at how the feelings can come back in a flash when your LO gets in touch. On the upside I think the benefits of NC come back quite quickly if you resume it again. Can you stop contact?
Thanks for your efforts with the course Dr L. I think the cost is well worth it to save your sanity and you should get something back for this invaluable blog. Is there a way to pay anonymously? I think some people might be put off by having to enter their details.
Not currently, as payment is via Stripe. I’m planning on adding Paypal in the next few weeks.Paypal payments are now enabled, so yes, discreet payment is now possible!
Bitcoin, baby. Just sayin’. 😉
Great, thanks Dr L.
@Royce, we exchanged a few pleasantries and at each turn of the conversation I gave no opening to keep the conversation going, but he kept asking me questions and I haven’t replied for 6 days now. I wonder if I’m being rude. I wouldn’t like it if people did that to me. Maybe it’s all for the best, but I’m feeling worse.
I think you did the best thing not encouraging him and you shouldn’t feel bad or think you’re being rude. Your entitled not to answer if you don’t want to and he should get the message and leave it at that – respect what you want. You’ll be feeling worse because he’s back in your head but stop the contact again and you’ll get back to where you were. Just think of it as a blip and remember how much better you felt when he wasn’t in your thoughts. You can do it again.
I don’t know about anyone else, but I believe social media has been like a massive breeding ground for Limerence. It’s a place that feeds it- likes, uncertainty, vague posts, uncontrollable contact-secrecy- so many elements. Maybe Dr. L might find it post worthy. Seems in redirecting myself and thoughts, etc- social media habits factor in- can’t be successful without considering my social media habits. I got off FB. Instagram might be next. Social media is the place I got limerent the worst and longest!!!
THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTINUE TO POST. VERY HELPFUL.
Hi Birdie,
Yes it is a good topic for a post – only problem is that I’m a bit of a social media refusenik. Rather like limerence, it’s so addictive and such a sink of time and attention that I’ve sworn off most of it. That makes it tricky to write a personally-informed post, but something on addiction parallels could be good…
True No Contact would mean you don’t stalk them on social media.
With LO #2, I’ll probably always keep tabs on her. You don’t forget someone that you asked to marry you. From what she said to me, I had some very distinct influence on her. I’m curious as to how that played out over time.
LO #4 has a large online professional presence. She blocked me on her personal site. It’s easy to follow her. After we said goodbye, I ebbed and flowed following her. It’s been 20+ days since my last peek. I had influence on LO #4, too, but I’m not invested in how that plays out with her.
By extension…
One thing I’ve observed is after being here for slightly over a year and a half, I’m starting to think maybe it’s time to leave. I answered my questions and coming here keeps me in the game (kind of like social media,) if that makes any sense. Coming here takes me to places I don’t want to visit anymore. I’ve told my story and I think I’ve run out of things to contribute.
There comes a time to declare victory and move on. I think I’m getting close. Maybe it’s time to start a phased withdrawal.
Scharnhorst, I can totally see how remaining here keeps you “in the game”. On a selfish note, you are an asset to the rest of us. You help some of us get our “fix” when we visit the site to see if anyone has posted…anything. I check here a couple of times per day to make sure I don’t miss something that rolled off of the “most recent” comments area. I’m still very much learning about myself and definitely not out of the game yet.
On a side note, because I haven’t fully disclosed to my SO, I am not seeing how I could pay for help with my limerence, whether the EDC or other professional help, without my SO finding out. Though one good thing about being married and sharing finances while limerent is the extra barrier that helps me from making even worse decisions with LO. It also helps that I’m no longer in a place where I completely throw reason and logic out of the window. You could say my new baseline pain/sorrow is certainly lower than the height, but not yet near the level prior to my LE.
If it makes a difference – it doesn’t seem that way from our end. You’re still contributing gems.
I do get what you mean, though, and respect your decision. If it is time to move on to pastures new: know you’ll be going with my sincere thanks for all the time and wisdom you’ve given.
We’ll keep your seat at the table any time you want to drop by again.
Yes, originally this site is a retreat from the hell of limerence, but eventually (I guess) it would become like a completely happy person still going to therapy for a bad marriage – it would keep you reminiscing over the bad times during the era that you aren’t a part of anymore.
It is out of place for anyone to tell you to stay, as you need to do what keeps you in the right place, emotionally. But, if this is goodbye, at least share anything more from your experiences with limerence struggles that may aid the rest of us in ours. Oh, and don’t forget to actually say goodbye, as well.
Thanks for all the advice you’ve given me and, of course, everyone here. May you live out the rest of your days satisfied, contented and limerence-free!
It’s funny Scharnhorst, I’ve thought similar. At what point are you over limerence and need to let go? Is there a point at which continuing to submerge oneself in the subject ends up doing more harm than good?
I’m not there yet as I don’t feel my LE is over. I’m still ruminating and whilst it is mainly how I would reject her if she got in contact, it’s still her on my mind. But, it’s progress and hopefully close to the end. I remember asking my therapist about limerence when I discovered this place and she dismissed it as typical of being “smitten” with someone. I went further and explained the symptoms etc and how I had most of them. She said if I found it useful then label myself that way, but to be careful not to pathologize myself, and therefore do myself harm. Her point was similar I guess.
Yes, a bittersweet reality for me is that if the site (and course) work, then people will no longer need to visit it! In fact, as you highlight, there may come a point where it is healthier to move on to purposeful new goals.
I’ve also thought about the problems of submerging myself in limerence by continuing with the blog, but I have now moved into a phase where it is not triggering anymore. I’m able to think about limerence without thinking about LO.
“At what point are you over limerence and need to let go? Is there a point at which continuing to submerge oneself in the subject ends up doing more harm than good?”
At what point..? Maybe I’m just in a low part of the limerence cycle. Taking Covey’s, “Begin with the end in mind,” it’s time to work on the exit strategy.
For me, things are lining up. It’s been less than a month since I checked LO #4’s FB page but it seems longer. She didn’t reply to my email wishing her a happy anniversary. It’s been 3 years since we said goodbye and she’s still 2500 miles away. When songs come on that remind me of her, I change the channel or skip past past them. I can still see how I’d interact with LO #4 but I can’t see any way that could come to pass and I don’t want it to. But, that image doesn’t come of it’s own accord much anymore. I have to pull it up. Being here pulls it up. I could be the poster child for the effectiveness of No Contact.
Now, I’ll go tangential. Metaphysics appeals to me. I ran into an article yesterday on “Twin Flames.” http://www.thelawofattraction.com/twin-flames/
It was really interesting. If you buy into it, my wife is my Soulmate but LO #2 is my Twin Flame. The article describes my 5 yr relationship with LO #2 to an uncanny degree. We failed at Step 6. What makes this even weirder is LO #2 was into Astrology, claimed to have a Past Life Regression to the late Middle Ages, and had a Tarot Card reading done on us. The PLR showed we were no more successful in that life than we were in this one. The prognosis of the Tarot card reading was “Maybe if we spent 20 years together on a desert island, we could make it work.” Not even the Cosmos had any hope for us. I flat out asked the therapist if, in her professional opinion, could our relationship ever been viable. She said that in her professional opinion, the answer was no. She also said LO #2’s metaphysical belief was a convenient construct to avoid taking responsibility for her unhappiness. After all, you can’t fight the Cosmos…. LO #2 was a professional martyr when I met her.
Now, if you talk to any clinician worth their salt that has experience in disordered attachment and go through the article, there is nothing there that can’t be explained clinically. If you have a disordered attachment and run into someone with the same core issues you have, it’s natural to be drawn to them. It would be interesting to do some kind of study to see if there’s a correlation of attachment style/trauma and Twin Flames. I’d bet lunch there is.
I don’t plan on disappearing but the goal is to dial things back. This is a great place.
@Scharnhorst
Interesting that you bring up Twin flames. It’s something that I’ve come across recently and have given some thought to.
I’m in an odd place with spirituality. It’s something that I feel I need to develop yet at the same time, I have a bit of a block because my Mum’s spirituality and mental ill health overlapped in such a way I fear the same happening to me. However, I’ve found a lovely and supportive community that are helping me work through this.
I’ve come to the hesitant conclusion that it’s highly unlikely LO and I are twin flames (if such a thing exists – who knows!) and even if we are, the general advice is focus on developing yourself… strangely similar to purposeful living and either way, will not do any harm!
I love the course. I have done module one today…and tomorrow will do the worksheet (I wish it was a fillable form as I don’t have a printer).
The insights are brilliant and I have been texting friends cross country about what I am learning about myself, my LO and limerence itself. I can tell already this is one of my best investments.
Well done Dr. L!
Thanks Jaideux!
p.s. The worksheets are all downloadable as Word files too – go to the “downloads” module at the end 🙂
I stopped drinking any alcohol about a year and a half ago. I used to keep track of the number of days. Then after about a year, I forgot to keep up anymore. So it goes with tackling Limerence. Scharnhorst- I get it.
I’d like to see in print my writing this- so please don’t take it as a brag but it’s for me to realize the truth…..
I am a super hero and breaking bad habits is my super power.
I’m taking back ALL that power I gave away. 9 years. I want it back. My life is hard- an unsupportive marriage and a severely handicapped 20 year old son born with a terrible disease- his bones break easily- and has all kinds of serious health crises. It is no wonder I went limerent. No wonder a couple of glasses of wine each evening felt relaxing. No wonder Facebook posting and scrolling was a fun escape. My reality was escape worthy. But———
The jig is up. I want all that externally projected power BACK. So I signed up for the course.
Will be exciting to see how peaceful/present/successful I may become when I give to myself what I have lavished out there- on LO- 9 years.
The course is great. Highly recommend.
Thank you all!
@Sophie,
I don’t really believe in Twin Flames but it’s nice to think about and it’s a good fit for my experience. In https://livingwithlimerence.com/2017/12/31/why-is-limerence-so-powerful/ , DrL talks about the “numinous” aspect of limerence.
What can be more numinous than your Twin Flame who can look right through you, who can see you on level no other person ever has or ever will, who you don’t need to talk with because you two both just KNOW because you feel like there’s a conduit between you on a subliminal level and stuff is going between you that you’re not even aware of, or who, despite your normally pretty good boundaries, can go through you like water through a chain link fence?
I was available when I tangled with LO #2. I never felt that sense of connection with LO #4. If that LE was hard because of the barriers in place, I can only imagine how hard it would have been if I’d seen LO #4 as a Twin Flame.
The numinous aspect of limerence isn’t a problem for all limerents. For some of us, it comes into play. I like the Twin Flame idea because it’s way more romantically appealing than the idea that LO #2 and I were two screwed up people mirroring similar insecure attachment trauma symptoms stemming from childhood. People write songs about Twin Flames, PhDs publish papers on insecure attachments.
But as John Bowlby said, “Yet, if it’s true, it’s true.”
@Scharnhorst…I have thought about this at length….if I should leave after one day being ‘healed’ of limerence would I be setting myself up for a relapse? I think that perhaps limerence goes very very dormant…but it’s still not ever really dead. If not for a past LO, a future one…yes, I believe the danger is real.
So I am contemplating a long range investment in checking in, commenting here and there…hopefully to be a wee bit helpful if I can, but also as insurance to remind me of the hell I was in (and one day will escape from) and to remain ever vigilant, ever aware.
If this site is a safe haven and a tool to remind myself and protect myself…I am staying.
So back to square one for me 🙁
NC till LO surprised me by showing up on the one day he’s NOT supposed to be there.
We both walked into the coffee shop at the same time from opposite ends, exchanged a hello and a smile and some small talk. What annoyed me most :
a) He caught me off guard, my heart nearly stopped in shock
b) He touched me, nothing sexual, but he still touched me.
c) He seemed annoyed/irritated, his usual sarcasm was particularly acidic that day, bordering being mean.
d) I could feel him stealing glances while I was with my group which meant I was on constant edge.
That same afternoon he was parked at a distance where I usually walk past, I pretended not to see him and didn’t stop for a chat.
Next day he was at the carpark very early, we exchanged a wave and I walked in for my coffee without stopping to talk (1st time I’ve ever done that). He sat in his car till his SO arrived, by then I had my coffee and left with a smile and wave.
I suspect I’ll pay for that next week but for now my rumination is going into overdrive and my anxiety has hit the stratosphere, might even need a vomit bag……..
Something that made a difference for me was the discovery that I can be rude to LO. Even if he doesn’t deserve it, even if I’m not a rude person, that is an option.
I say discovery but… SO pointed it out.
“I can’t be rude if we’re at the same meeting and he says hello how are you!” I explained.
“Why not?” SO asked.
Lightbulb moment. Why not? I don’t owe LO anything. Sure he’s a nice guy, but he can stand rudeness, he’s not a hothouse flower. If I’m rude, by which I mean, I ignore his hello, I literally walk away from small talk chitchat, he’ll get the message and stop engaging. If he asks why? If he asks, am I mad at him? First – good luck asking as I’ve set it up so it would be hard for him to do – second – I don’t have to answer.
That’s a good question Serial Sufferer, “Why not?”, it’s the same question my SO asked me this morning. We had a long chat, unpacking my emotional roller coaster week, made a good plan for NC and put contingency plans in place in case of “Surprises” and lets face it, life is full of surprises.
If I see LO I was to not engage in idle chitchat, a quick hello but keep walking away. Was full of resolve starting Monday when fate decided to test me 1 hr later.
I took eldest child shopping for clothes this afternoon at one of our massive shopping centres, I go there perhaps once every 2-3 months but never on a Saturday. Well three guesses who I bumped into coming around a corner while on my phone, yep, LO with his children. Every sane thought flew out of my head as I tried not to react, needless to say I broke the idle chitchat rule, SO was not pleased. So why can’t I just be rude, for me the guilt will knaw away at me and my anxiety will spin out of control, I just can’t, I can’t recall the last time I was rude to anyone. My husband said I need to grow some balls.
I don’t think rudeness is compulsory 🙂 But, I can understand given that you’ve recently disclosed to your SO that he would be super sensitive to your conduct. I aimed for “civil but not friendly” with my LO, rather than rude, but there are LOs that will require more assertiveness.
But I definitely agree with the sentiment – you owe your LO nothing, and they won’t be harmed by you choosing to protect yourself. It’s good to prioritise your recovery over their feelings.
On an unrelated note, I saw this article in the Guardian and thought you might relate. Maybe there’s something about the School run…?
Holy shitballs Dr L, that article was me!! Ok a few differences but essentially me.
Ok I think I need a big gulp of alcohol for this one but here goes.
2.5 yrs ago before meeting LO my SO and I had a fairly fantastic sex life, life was sweet, our libidos matched and there was plenty of action. Enter medication that SO needed to take and it started messing with his body, sex became infrequent and often unsatisfying for me as it felt like a race I regularly lost. This downhill slide started off slowly, almost unnoticeable but gathered momentum. I was so confused as I knew logically it had nothing to do with SO’s desire for me but it started knawing at my confidence and self worth. I started losing weight, taking care of my appearance more and bought all sorts of sexy lingerie to grab his attention, it was almost obsessive. Enter LO 18 months ago, at that stage he was on my radar but no fantasies yet, those started in earnest a few months ago when sex was almost non existent between SO and I. I felt unattractive, resentful, rejected and was sexually climbing the proverbial walls. So here I was finally looking “hot” and ready to have sex while SO just wanted to turn his back and sleep. My fantasies for LO were so persistent that I had constant dreams about him that woke me up in a sweat, I was petrified and ashamed that SO would find out. Everyone kept commenting how wonderful I looked yet SO didn’t seem interested, thus the downward spiral of limerence was set in motion.
Since disclosure to SO things have improved vastly, we make time to just touch (one of the things I missed most in our marriage) and kiss without rushing to the finish line. He’s been very attentive and sweet and I feel loved and appreciated. I know there’s a long road ahead but feel we can make it work, we’ve read up on alternative medicine he can take with less side effects and we have a few options. I don’t think we’ve stopped talking since disclosure, each day there’s something new to share with him.
PS: the sexual fantasies for LO has dropped to 40%
Thank you so much for sharing the article Dr L.
It’s sounds like you’re handling it like a pro, Lee-Anne! Just getting past that resistance to disclosure and then opening up can be transformative. Suddenly it’s you and SO as a team again, facing the challenges together.
NC failed for me today, too.
I would have succeeded through the day, but while we were in Science she actually started to stare at me. When I looked (oit of curiosity mixed with habit) we locked eyes for a second that felt like a lifetime… And just like that, I was sucked back in. I kept glancing at her for the day, during which we made some eye contact. And I failed NC.
It’s amazing how one relapse can set you all the way back. Granted, it was only day #5, but it could have been a lot longer before this happened. It’s slightly scary…
AL,
Being in class (or work) with your LO means NC probably unachievable. Maybe it’s time to switch to Low Contact and go from all or nothing to incrementally moving in the right direction.
When it comes to minimizing exposure to ionizing radiation, there’s a concept called ALARA, As Low As Reasonably Achievable.
“The guiding principle of radiation safety is “ALARA”. ALARA stands for “as low as reasonably achievable”. This principle means that even if it is a small dose, if receiving that dose has no direct benefit, you should try to avoid it.
To do this, you can use three basic protective measures in radiation safety: time, distance, and shielding.” (https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/radiation/alara.html)
Minimize the time with her, avoid her when you can, and shield yourself from triggering topics. Will she be in your class next year? If not, concentrate on waiting it out and transition to NC. If she is, you have some time between terms to work on your defenses.
Attempting something you can’t achieve doesn’t do you any good. You end up where you started and feel badly about it. ALARA lets you can take steps to move in that direction and build on those. Some progress is better than no progress. Casinos make millions on only a few percentage points.
Make a game out of it. What can you do to use Time, Distance, and Shielding? DrL talks about staged withdrawals but you can’t withdraw so you revise things accordingly. How long are you exposed to her, 50 minutes, all day? Bound the problem and see what you come up with.
Like exes you share custody with, there are some people you may not be able to avoid, so do the best you can.
Being in school with her, I know I can’t withdraw completely, so what I mean by No Contact is really No Eye Contact; I try not to look at her in the hope that we won’t lock eyes, which ultimately triggers a wave of limerence and depression on my part.
The principle of ALARA is interesting, though – I had considered thinking of this as a game, but not a game based on actual happenings (if that makes any sense). If I tried that, it might put a different perspective on things.
With regards to next year, I don’t know if she’ll be in my class. I’m both excited by and dreading the possibilities. But currently, I can’t make any assumptions nor plans. Thanks for the ideas, anyway.
Sounds like she’s yanking your chain, a bit like “click bait ”
I need to see if there’s an article on LO’s and mental manipulation, even if they aren’t aware of it ….
Lee-Anne, thank you for your candor in sharing (above) your experience. I have been and am in a similar situation, with my libido becoming volcanic just as my SO’s libido disappeared altogether (combination of age, medical issues, and external life circumstances; he doesn’t want it to be that way and I believe him when he says that his love for me and my objective attractiveness are not the problem). Goodness, just writing that down helps me see starkly how my marital situation puts terrible pressure on my capacity to maintain proper boundaries around LO. I’ve managed, but the psychic cost is immense and when I reflect on that, it is a great motivator to stay away from LO.
My limerence experience has been, among other things, a five-alarm-fire wake-up call that my SO and I want to work on our marriage. For the first 20 years we coasted happily along not needing to put any effort into it, and it’s a novelty that we have to put effort into it now, but we’re both game and excited to see how we can grow and develop together in a new phase of our lives — and bring back our libidinal partnership! I’m inspired by hearing about how your relationship with your SO is improving. Best wishes to you.
Midlifer, you hit the nail on the head, coasted along happily for the first 20 years was also our marriage. I have to say this is by far the most challenging thing we’ve come across as a couple.
My limerence was also a massive wake up call with loud alarm bells clanging, our marriage was in trouble and we didn’t even notice.
I must say keeping dialogue open with my SO has been very comforting for me, I can feel the tentacles of limerence loosening its grip on my life each day as I get a better understanding of why I am feeling what I am feeling. We are making more private time together (a hard one since I still have young children at home) touching, talking and laughing. I can already see a big difference just in one week, it’s almost like I am becoming “immune” to LO’s sparkle or the very least his sparkle is having less of an impact on my life. Feeling quite triumphant, not overly cocky but quietly confident.
Can someone please tell me if this course has helped them? I’m curious to know the stats and how long it took after taking the course for limerence to be significantly dialed down. Since I am no longer limerent, I fully believe social networking and tapping into God’s grace is the key to dialing it down organically, and this course intrigues me, so having the stats or feedback would be helpful not only to me but other readers I’m sure. From a marketing point of view, stats help to promote the product as well. Win/win.
Well Nolongerlim I took the course and I can tell you it’s worth every cent it cost. Dr L did a great job with the course and thanks to him and this community I am well on my way to total peace after going on Six years of pure Hell.
Through the course I realized without TOTAL NC one can not get well.
Also DrL has a great new book. Be sure a get it as well.