I’ve always taken the view that limerence is both a good and bad thing. If you are mutually limerent for someone who is free to reciprocate, then life is blissful. But that doesn’t happen very often.
More commonly, there is an asymmetry – one or other of you is not limerent, or not single, or there is a barrier of some sort that prevents the free expression of your feelings – and under those conditions, limerence can turn sour.
This most commonly seems to happen when the pent-up limerent energy has nowhere to go. If uncertainty is high, the constant internal churn of thwarted desire can curdle into resentment. Elation turns to anger. Instead of pleasant daydream fantasies, rumination becomes more bitter, and the limerent becomes preoccupied with a desire to force LO to acknowledge the pain they’ve caused.
Anecdotally, this seems a particular risk if the LO has shown some interest but then gone cold. Perhaps they started out as an enthusiastic participant in the limerence-reinforcing dance of gossiping, flirting, and oversharing, but then pulled back and shut down, leaving you confused and embarrassed. This may be because they are a narcissistic LO, or because they regret their indiscretions, or perhaps they really didn’t mean to provoke romantic hope. Regardless of the root cause, the apparently sudden change from receptive to hostile can really do a number on the limerent’s psyche.
That sort of volte face from an LO is undoubtedly destabilising, and feeds the uncertainty that worsens limerence, but responding by giving in to resentment is a big mistake, and a major barrier to recovery.
So let’s deconstruct why resentment is a bad idea and what can be done to overcome it.
It robs you of agency
Giving in to resentment means allowing someone else’s behaviour to determine your mood. You may feel you have no choice in this – you can’t control what they do and how it makes you feel – but that ignores the fact that you can choose how to engage with the situation. Your LO may have led you on, they may have lied to you, they may have played you for a fool, they may have manipulated you to get you hooked. Now you want some payback.
So… you put your life on hold for them again? Instead of romantic obsession, you switch to a dark obsession. You give them more power over you to determine your mood and life. You start making mistakes in the heat of emotion that they can use against you – accusing you of harassment or bullying or misconduct. They stay central to your life and continue to make you dance like a puppet.
If you’re thinking “it’s not fair, they have all the power,” bear in mind that’s because you gave it to them.
It risks your integrity
Even worse than the simple disempowerment, resentment can push people to some pretty dark places. I was interviewed a while ago about limerence, and the producers of the show were fixated on the negative: stalking, harassing, delusion, obsession. Obviously, only a tiny fraction of limerents end up that deeply disordered, but it is the end of a road that starts with blaming LO for the limerent’s own feelings.
“They hurt me so I’ll hurt them back” is a pretty toxic thought. It can lead you to do things that compromise your integrity out of misplaced indignation and the belief that it’s OK to punish LO for their bad behaviour. Escalating revenge is a spiral you don’t want to get caught up in.
It stems from entitlement
This seems an inflammatory way to frame the issue, but resentment generally comes from a sense of entitlement. If you are angry that you have been mistreated, that means you felt entitled to a certain level of consideration from your LO and that you are not getting it. If LO previously responded to your texts within a few minutes, leaving you hanging for a few days seems rude. If you had established a habit of flirty banter, and they then shut you down, you feel humiliated, and upset that they have apparently changed the rules unfairly. And that they are being hypocritical and dishonest for suddenly deciding it’s not OK.
The problem here is that unless the communication between you and LO was very good, you are making a whole lot of assumptions. You think there was some tacit agreement between you that’s been broken, but they may see it entirely differently.
Healthy friendships are built on mutual good will, so it’s not unreasonable to feel hurt by inconsiderate behaviour, but it is unreasonable to feel that your friends are obligated to you. If a friend lets you down, it’s disappointing for sure, but you’re not entitled to some sort of emotional compensation. If you are in a friendship with someone who repeatedly takes more than they give, the purposeful thing to do is to stop giving so much and re-evaluate the friendship. Not get angry and seek reparation – or retribution.
This way of looking at things often reveals another double-standard. Limerents frequently feel entitled to more from their LO than they do from their other friends. They take it as more of a personal insult if LO is inconsiderate, and get angrier and more resentful than they would if a friend that they weren’t infatuated with behaved in the same way.
The strength of your feelings for them does not determine the strength of the commitment you can expect from them.
How to break out of the resentment trap
Step one is to acknowledge the problem. Step two is to use the resentment for your own purposes. Step three is to let go of unrealistic expectations.
We’re none of us paragons, so resentment is a predictable part of limerence turning sour, but using that negative energy to seek payback is a bad idea. It’s much better to channel it into the de-idealisation of LO.
It can be helpful to take those feelings of anger and frustration and use them to realise that LO isn’t this hugely desirable person. Recognise that the sick feelings of resentment are coming from your decision to stay connected to them. Recognise that if you continue to indulge the obsession, those gross feelings are going to carry on. By choosing to continue a relationship with LO you are inviting in these awful feelings. You can use that to teach yourself that being around LO makes you feel bad.
The solution, of course, is to stop being around LO. Liberation from your LO means liberation from those bitter thoughts and feelings. It’s the classic message of recovery: don’t look to them to save you, just go ahead and save yourself.
They don’t owe you anything, you haven’t been cheated, you’ve made the decision to try and wrestle the situation into one in which they behave in the way that you want. That way lies madness.
Reorient yourself and stride off towards freedom.
How long did your limerence hold on after going into NC or how long did it at least take to get a little bit better? I am curious about your process/progress and your experiences, so please share it with me! 🙂
26 months exactly, with a lot of stop-and-start cycles and an immense amount of therapy, study, and work to be honest with myself and get to know myself better and take full responsibility for my feelings and my life. Now I see my experience with LO more objectively as a prolonged awkward flirtation that clearly is not going to go anywhere. And I have deeply taught myself that being around LO makes me feel bad: whether it’s going ‘well’ or not, there’s a range of different ways to feel bad and none of it feels good. So, enough already. Freedom!
I have been through 6 LE’s in my life, with the first four occurring before my high school graduation (and my first being in first grade!), my fifth being with a co-worker several years ago, and finally, the current one with a woman living in my neighborhood. Until recently, I had no idea what was going on in my mind and in my heart, except that I felt emotionally empty and was the greatest pain I had ever felt. My initial response to all of my LE’s/LO’s was, ‘this emotional experience is so intense and like no other, this person must be the one’ (not realizing until later that this was the message that my brain wanted me to believe). However, through these LE’s, I was living through contradictory experiences. As most of us have attempted to do, as I saw that my ‘dream’ of having my feelings reciprocated by my LO never transpired the way that I envisioned, I then attempted to have the deepest of ‘friendship’ with them (oh yes, the ‘something is better than nothing’ logic). However, this so-called friendship never seemed to meet the expectations that the emotional intensity of the LE would seem to predict. With this realization, I began to wonder if there was much more going on than the picture that my brain was trying to paint. At this point, I knew that a healthy dose of introspection was much needed. So, I set out into the woods for a nice 6-mile walk, and was beyond motivated to make sense of a repeated emotional experience that was anything but sensical. About 3 miles in, it all seemed to come together, and I finally realized that this ‘painting’ of my brain was simply an illusion.
First of all, I want to thank Dr L for creating this platform where all of us can share our experiences with this very illogical and oftentimes excruciating experience. Motivated by all of the pain that I have experienced through so many of my LE’s, I want to share my opinions on what perhaps is really going on here, and most importantly, allowing this knowledge to be a key to finally finding your freedom from limerence once and for all. Perhaps many of you will relate to my observations, and perhaps many of you will not. But if anything, hopefully this gets you even one step closer to self-enlightenment, self-empowerment, and ultimately, one step closer to your purposeful life.
My first perplexing question originated from the reality that these supposed ‘friendships’ with my LO’s did not match the quality that the emotional intensity of my LE’s would predict. If the LO in terms of a ‘friend’ was not all that special, what exactly was it about the LE that seemed so special? And why was what I was experiencing in my LE seem so special and spectacular? With some thought, the answer seems to have originated from my childhood. I realized that I have been missing something extraordinarily important that my child brain never felt it received, and most importantly, that I did not, nor ever, have given myself to much of a degree: feelings of love and emotional validation. Then I thought to myself, how did my child brain ever pick up and believe the message that emotional connectedness was difficult, unnecessarily, or simply, that I was unworthy? Both of my parents split when I was very young, with my father remarrying a woman who would never allow my opinions or emotional experiences to be welcomed…ever. Worse yet, for the sake of avoiding conflict, my father would seemingly always prioritize and side with his new wife over me, at least on the surface. Regarding my mother, she was very busy with many new relationships, and it usually felt like I was simply along for the ride. These relationships included one with an alcoholic, with another being an abuser and a cheater. There was no place for my own emotional well-being. Again, at least as interpreted with my little child brain. We all know how sensitive children can be. If my child brain interpreted my parents’ behaviors towards my emotional well-being as ones that would indicate something of non-importance, what chance did I have of putting importance on and giving myself the love and validation I so desperately needed? I had no chance. As an adult, I know that an absolutely critical component in me finding and leading a healthy and purposeful life is one that includes all-fulfilling love and validation that begins within myself. With this, I realized that throughout my life, I was trying to achieve something (a happy, satisfying life) while at the same time missing the most key component (self-love and validation) in achieving it. And even though I had not taken purposeful steps in finding love and validation within myself, this did not halt my heart’s attempts at finding this feeling elsewhere. After all, we are all human, and need it. We crave it. And if we have never truly received something internally or externally that we so desperately need, even if just in the smallest of doses, it tastes that much better to us. Compare it to when you get hungry…the longer you go without food, the better it will taste when you finally do receive food, even if it’s just a tiny bread crumb. And since I struggled with loving and validating myself, I never felt as if I deserved more than an emotional ‘bread crumb’ anyway. This sounds like a perfect set up for me to act irrational and sometimes downright foolish to obtain any amount of love and validation I could find, and from any source that I could find it at. And that is exactly what I did. It sounds like desperation. It sounds like an addiction.
So there I was, on the lookout for a source of love and validation that was not too healthy, fulfilling, or abundant (that would feel too weird and uncomfortable…I didn’t deserve that, afterall), but was also attractive to me (perhaps somebody that reminded me of relationships in my childhood?). Ah yes, enter: emotionally unavailable LO. As I was desperate to find a source of love and validation, it did not take much for my brain to associate a person with being a source of just that. The requirements in making this association: an emotionally unavailable person that was remotely close to my physical type, and for that person to make any sort of gesture my way, no matter how remote. Perhaps it was just a gaze in my direction, or maybe just a little note left behind telling me hello. That was enough. The glimmer began there, and it felt wonderful. It was intoxicating. I could not get enough. From there, any gesture coming my way from that person was a sign of hope. Hope that I could be loved and validated by someone at some point. And if signs of hope began to drop, the emotional rollercoaster began. The higher the high, the lower the low. The emotional withdrawals would begin, and I would do and say anything to provoke them into giving me more of the ‘drug’ that I was so desperate for. As this cycle continued, the highs did not seem so high anymore, as it seemed my heart was growing some level of tolerance to the supposed love and validation I had convinced myself I was obtaining from my LO. Therefore, I knew that for me to achieve the same ‘high’ that I had grown accustomed to, I knew that the gestures from my LO needed to be bigger, better, more spectacular. Or at least, enough to mask the pain caused by the emotional emptiness I felt from me not being able to provide this for myself. Again, it sounds like desperation. It sounds like an addiction.
As I continued experiencing all of the emotional highs and lows that were seemingly controlled by my LO’s decisions in how they would respond to me that day, I finally realized that I had relinquished all control to them. After all, I had no control over how they were going to respond or talk to me. Were they going to initiate conversation today? How long will their texts be this time? Was their response too long? Making the realization that somebody else (my LO) had that much control over my emotional well-being and whether I would fall into emotional withdrawals (simply by extinguishing conversation with you for a day!) was terrifying. I knew that my window to freedom could not be reliant on the uncontrollable (my LO), but instead, the controllable: myself. However, I had also made another realization that created another significant roadblock in me finding freedom outside of just LO’s behaviors: everything reminded me of her!
Once this realization was made, my mind instantly went to the most basic of psychological concepts: associative learning. If not out of just sheer desperation, I knew that my brain had already made one association: my LO = pleasure from feeling loved and validated. In psychological terms, operant conditioning was in play here. In other words, after repeated experiences with my LO, along with the euphoric high that would inevitably come with it, the brain synapse that paired my LO with this sensational feeling (can we say, dopamine ‘hit’?) was exceptionally strong. Due to this association and my craving for this emotional drug, my longing for LO was very high. However, I seemed to also long for anything that reminded me of her. Of course, I would make excuses for why I just had to drive past her neighborhood to get to the store just this one time, or why it was absolutely necessary to buy the same cheese dip that I knew she always bought. As we all know, LO’s typically evoke very obsessive thought patterns, so it certainly does not take long for many places, items, and experiences to remind us of LO! At its height, it felt like there was nothing in this world that would not somehow be associated back to LO. I soon realized that these seemingly innocent associations also gave me a similar dopamine ‘hit’. Do I smell Pavlov’s dogs anyone?
I soon realized that another form of associative learning was in play that was making it more difficult to escape the grips of my LO: classical conditioning. Originating from the works of Ivan Pavlov, a Russian physiologist, it was found that if a seemingly neutral stimulus gets paired up with an unconditioned stimulus enough times, the neutral stimulus can begin evoking the same response as the unconditioned response already does. In terms of my cheese dip example from above, eating this particular cheese dip prior to my LO would have obviously evoked no euphoric feelings at all. However, after watching my LO eat this particular cheese dip so many times, I began making a strong association between LO and this particular cheese dip. Now there were two strong associations: 1) LO and feeling of emotional love and validation, and 2) LO and cheese dip. Because of these two close associations, another association began to form: cheese dip and emotional euphoria! After making this realization, feelings of hopelessness began setting in. Afterall, if an almost limitless number of things in my world would remind me of her (and ultimately, cause a secondary emotional ‘hit’), how could I possibly escape the grips of this experience?
Outside of locking myself in a dark room and secluding myself from seemingly all associations (but then, I would still have my thoughts of her…), I knew that my window to freedom had to be found elsewhere. At this point, mile 3 in the woods had just been completed. However, this also marked the point in which something else much bigger had just taken place: discovering a solution to limerence that worked for me, and made practical sense in the context of what was causing limerence in the first place!
The solution has two parts. The first goes back to the originating association. I knew that if I could break the association between LO and feelings of love and validation, then any thoughts, encounters, or any secondary associations of LO would also no longer evoke emotional euphoria. No more emotional euphoria, then no more longing for LO, no more emotional highs and lows, no more emotional withdrawals, and no more hiding from the world! But I knew that it wasn’t as simple as ‘praying away’ this association with LO. Given how our brain synapses and associative learning works, I knew that I needed to create a new association to pair with LO. Yes, an association that was neutral at best, was completely emotionally void, and if anything, possible averse. I knew that this would take some very purposeful effort. After all, when LO reaches out to me in any way (text, phone call, etc), my brain instantly screams at me, ‘a source of emotional euphoria! Do anything and everything to get as much as you can!’. I knew that for this to work, I would have to avoid this urge. I could no longer emoji ‘hearts’, ‘winky faces’, ‘smiley faces’, etc. I could no longer even talk personally about myself. I also knew that I would have to avoid face-to-face encounters or long encounters. The longer the encounter, the stronger the cravings, and I knew that eventually the drug dealer would be invited in. This is inherently like playing with the snake, just asking to get bit. And my brain is a finicky thing…anything could be interpreted as love and validation, depending on how vulnerable I felt at that particular moment. No, I would always have to reference the conversation back to the neutral/averse association of my choice at any cost. If she would bring up a personal topic, I would require myself to create a ‘conversational bridge’ that would link what she brought up to my chosen neutral/averse association. Be relentless, don’t stop. I needed to force my brain to create a new synapse that would link my LO with a new association that would be far from something I was addicted to. Again, something that was emotionally void and anything that my brain would find impossible to link to love and validation. A few examples…school! Work! The weather! Just like anything that is applied to the concept of associative learning, I knew that if I did this long enough, thoughts of her and anything associated with her would begin to automatically be linked to this very new, stale association. And the results are in…it’s working!
But I could not stop there. This was not enough. After all, my status quo never changed: I am still a human being, still in need of love and emotional validation, still overly dependent on external forms of love and validation, and still not turning inward as my primary means in obtaining this need. As Dr L has so eloquently stated time and time again, the best way in finding love and validation within ourselves is through creating a purposeful life for ourselves. I had to realize that all of my decisions up to this point had never led me to achieving this yet, so obtaining this would require drastic, bold changes within myself and in my life. Once and for all, I no longer can settle for acting spontaneously based upon what seems to feel ‘good’ in the moment (seeking the short term ‘high’ from my LO, for example). I know that I have to think and act in more purposeful, deliberate, and intentional ways that will better guide me in loving myself more. For example, I will make a deliberate decision every day to only hold on to positive thoughts about myself and my life, and no longer allow myself to beat myself up simply with my thoughts. And knowing that my thoughts are a significant predictor in how I decide to behave, I will commit to building and sustaining a new daily routine that is based on behavioral acts that support my pre-determined priorities. Living a life that is grounded in consistent, positive, inner-dialogue, and one that is entirely customized to my priorities…to me, this is the very definition of self-love and purposeful living. And I know that once I can finally love and validate myself in a way to which I could never achieve before, my brain and my heart will no longer find the need to act in spontaneous, desperate ways to make me feel like a lovable, worthy person. In other words, out with: acting in spontaneous, unhealthy ways to seek the short-term ‘fix’ (LO’s/LE’s), and in with: acting in more deliberate, healthy ways to seek longer-term self fulfillment (purposeful life).
Life is about the journey, not the destination. Appreciate your new insights, your growth. After all, road to liberation and freedom will require determination and intentionality. So we might as well find the silver lining to this very painful experience, and use this to make ourselves lives bigger and better than ever. That is, a life filled with much healthier, more fulfilling, and authentic relationships. Because you deserve it! Happy travels everyone.
Thank you for sharing your wisdom Harried, Im glad you went on that forest walk! I came to similar conclusions during therapy and self exploration. An emotionally deficient mother led me to poor self esteem and low expectations of being loved. After 18 years with SO, my LE has revealed to me I was inadvertently cultivating a similar relationship with SO. I like your rationale…rather than ‘blame’ SO, aim for self love and self validation
That’s one of the most amazing comments I’ve ever seen here at LWL.
My own LO has recently begun to re-exhibit the behavior that triggered my LE a couple of years ago, and it’s similar to what brought yours on, Harried.
LO has been over-the-top complimentary, relating anecdotes of how her other conversations have been about me and what a wonderful person I am. I crave that kind of validation.
I have my guard up, because, while we have progressed, I don’t want to go back.
I have made several walks trying to figure out why I am limerent. Why I become obsessed with LOs. I perceived this behavior to be normal up until recently when I began to question why I was feeling the way I was. That is when I came across the term limerence which led me to this website.
I can relate to you Harried in that I was emotionally neglected as a child. As an adult I have created coping mechanisms to deal with what is missing in my life perhaps to fill the emptiness from the emotional neglect I experienced growing up. For me limerence is just that – a coping mechanism albeit an abnormal one I have come to realize. The maladaptive daydreaming, fantasizing, longing is what I use to fill the the tank so to speak. In reality it keeps me from really living life. I’m trying to change that. This website helps. Thanks to all.
Seven months of no contact and it still hurts like hell (although things have improved slightly over that time). I sometimes wonder if it’s all worth it. I was only ever in my LO’s company once for 2-3 hours, then had a brief exchange on Facebook a month later, but I ended up unfriending her (with an explanation). I MAY have caught a glimpse of her a couple of times over the past few months, but I am not sure if it was her. In spite of hardly knowing her, I miss this woman so badly. I know that sounds so stupid — all for someone who wasn’t even into me (although she did show me basic human decency and kindness and there were a couple of borderline slightly flirty things she said and did to me).
There is no sourness from my LO. She was a perfect lady and did nothing at all to make me dislike her or be angry with her. All she did was be her own wonderful, amazing self and show interest in my brother in-law (who is single, unlike me). I sometimes wonder if this makes my recovery harder? I cannot resent her for anything and I think incredibly highly of her, so I simply can’t use that as fodder for my recovery. If she was mean and nasty towards me it might make things easier. I am, however, a bit annoyed with and resentful towards my brother in-law who squandered this amazing chance to be with such a sweet and adorable lady. Life is so damn unfair! I guess that’s where the sourness comes in for me.
My experience over the last 28 years……
1) I disclosed to LO#1, was kindly rejected and my feelings muted considerably within a few weeks. NC not required, and we remained good friends for the rest of university and a bit beyond.
2) LO#2 was a charming & funny co-worker that I did not trust enough to disclose to. After 1.5 years of LE I changed jobs. It took me about 3-4 months to be free of the LE. I had no desire to ever see him again and never did.
3) LE#3 was another co-worker. Got over that LE when I started a relationship with another co-worker. Turned into 3.5 years of toxic relationship so not a great LE recovery strategy! But it did get rid of my LE immediately. I remained good friends with LE#3 for many years – he even attended my wedding to co-worker LE#4.
4) LE#5 is my boss. Still going strong on that one. 4 months of LC during the pandemic (occasional phone only) has done nothing to change my feelings. But then am not really trying as am happy enough and accepting of it for now.
Well, here’s mine:
LO1, three years. Got rejected fairly soon but I became obsessed in trying to make a relationship happen, so I kept asking for second chances. Ironically, she’s the only LO with whom I keep occasional contact, and no need of NC.
LO2, 5-6 months. After seeing her with her boyfriend, the feelings subsidized in two or three months. No purposeful NC, just real life getting in the way and I haven’t seen her in a couple years or so.
LO3, 5 months aprox. Disclosed, got rejected. 1 month since I stopped messaging her, and I’m still not out of the LE, although there’s some improvements.
10 months and counting!
Well, more specific…
LO1 – 36 months LE total. 14 months into it I found out she was making fun of me behind my back. So the last 22 months of the LE was me refusing to try anymore because I was too hurt. LO1 asked me out 7 years after she crapped on me. By then I had long moved past her and was interested in better pickings. She ended up not getting married until she was 40.
LO2 -38 months LE total. She flamed me when I asked her if she wanted to get coffee. Very nasty and arrogant response, very dismissive and objectifying, like “how dare a peon like you approach someone like me!” It was horribly embarrassing and it ended my limerence within 24 hours. It was a huge wake up call. I realized I had fooled myself into believe this piece of trash had been worth my time. She’s 44 and still not married. But the experience worked in preventing any LEs for 18 years, until…
LO3. The dreaded LO3. 32 months and counting. 10 months since NC (mostly) and it’s still going. I am a grown man and unwillingly got ensnared by LO3 who is 23 years my junior. I knew what was happening and couldn’t stop it. Last week we had talked about how we find our LOs gorgeous when everybody else knew they were average – I shared a pictorial “1 to 10 scale” of men and women so we could rate our LOs. LO3 is a 4. I’ve been told I’m a 9. Today I had a stunningly beautiful young woman give me the interest signs with the hair flips and smiles… and all I can think of is LO3 and her 4/10 looks. This flat-chested, 95-pound 25-year old woman whose nose is at least a half-inch too long with blotchy skin and teeth that would make a horse trainer flinch and no personality somehow locked me into her. Pisses me off!!
Matt, you place a lot of emphasis on women’s age. 40 yo and just got married, 44 yo and still not married. You do understand women are not defined by their marital status anymore? Because if that were true, we men would also be 40 yo never married losers.
You would definitely get bored of her after a week if you were with her. I have same problem;. It is just ego. But 23 yrs is a hard gap to close. What about finding someone you consider more attractive but just 10 yrs younger? I’m sure your limerence for this woman would die out quickly.
@Snowflake, I’m confused – how am I defining them by their marital status? I thought the context was clear – their age and marital status conveyed that other men chose not to become serious with them. I couldn’t see the attitude problems that other guys saw. And they had serious attitude problems.
@Steve, you’re 100% right, and I know you’re right, and I’ve always known what you’re saying is right. But this is limerence. I can’t help the craziness that I feel inside, even though I know cognitively that it could never work..
Matt have you ever met up with LO3 / had sexual encounters with her. Just wondering if meeting a LO makes one even more limerent or if one would get put off when reality hits.
I have a LO situation which I’m trying to get out of as he blows hot and cold, we are due to meet up soon and whilst it’s exciting, I don’t want to feel worse if he blows cold again!
I love your humour by the way? 🤣
My experience of NC hasn’t been successful so far. In the last 5 years I have tried to be NC, but really failed, and the longest it ever lasted was a few months. And this post really resonates, things did go sour for all the reasons Dr L described.
I have never been able to let go of feelings, entitlement even, and now I’m struggling again, like I may give in to another relapse, but really trying best not to.
I am so controlled in most of my life but this LE has been and is still my weakness.
Dr L, I have just begun Day 1 of NC after 2 months of LE with the LO. Was rejected 4 days ago, and today trying to get my brain to accept that feels as though I might perish. Thank you for your wealth of study and insight. I feel I might need rehab or meetings or something. This is terrible.
Hi Chicster, and welcome. Congrats on starting on day 1 of your limerence recovery!
It does feel awful. It sounds from your comment as though you have disclosed to your LO and got a “no”, which definitely sucks but is also what the vast majority of romantic approaches go like. Probably not much consolation, but worth remembering.
We’re a good group for rehab style pep talks and accountability. No meetings as yet (especially given limits on social mixing), but a virtual community at least.
Best wishes. It does get better.
Thank you so much for the reply. Just finished reading the 10 step guide, and it’s a wonderful read. I am already writing a “profile” that matches each and every LO in my past and planning to seek answers for why this profile is so powerful for me. An LO who needs to be rescued resonated with me especially. Thank again, Dr. L!
I did not disclose to the LO but consider his very sudden ghosting a firm “no.” I have just read the June blog post on the subject and would like to comment there?
welcome Chicster, my name is Mia and Im a limerent 🙂
Vent here when things get rough and people will support you and answer your questions.
Hi Mia! Thank you for the welcome. I have a couple of questions to ask the group, but first of all wanted to say, Hi, I’m Chicster and I’m a limerant. I did not make it through day 1 of NC. Today is a new day, and I have just finished removing all LO social media friendship/apps/pictures/messages/contact info and have organized all of the practical apps on my phone into folders with very dull titles. This will hopefully help remind me that my phone is not a sizzling piece of connection to another “hit” but a utilitarian method for managing my life which was badly spinning out of control. Wish me well on another Day 1 please!
By the way, I got the idea for repurposing my phone from the earlier post from Harried about replacing the allure of cheese dip! Thank you!!!
My first, of many many steps, was ( as little as it may sound) changing my phones back round pic. That was the beginning of the me.2
You don’t have to apologize for being all over this forum, we all have, especially in the beginning of NC. It’s hard. I remember thinking I would actually die. So post all you want, we are here.
From start to finish, it was about 20 months, but from when I realized it was limerence and starting working on myself to overcome it, about a year. LO and I were friends and later on FWB before I ended things and went NC to the best of my ability (we are schoolmates as well as co-workers, which makes things a bit difficult). I did not escape unscathed, however – LO was a narcissist who left me with a trauma bond. It took a lot of journaling, self-reflection, and therapy to undo that damage and get to where I am now. I went through all of the five stages of grief after ending our relationship.
Personally, I did not fully get over it until I spoke with LO and asked him if having any sort of relationship with me was important to him. The answer was “Not really, no. I don’t mind talking to you if I see you, though”. Although harsh, it was exactly what I needed to hear. That was the closure I needed to leave him behind and move on. I can happily say that I am completely over him and not a shred of my former limerence remains, although I still think about him often. (My therapist says that’s normal and will likely persist until I find someone new.) In spite of that, my feelings for him are completely neutral; I am no longer interested in having any sort of relationship with him, be it friendship or romance. I should add that not seeing him at all during quarantine or during the summer (he’s currently away) has helped immensely. It may seem impossible, but you’ll get there eventually!
Four years and counting.
NC now for eight weeks and counting. It does get easier but there’s days where it’s horrendous.
I have done the course which is great and helps frame it well. NC first started in June after an intense four month period. This led to a manic depressive episode, a stay in the local MH hospital and months of work in recovery.
Each day gets slightly easier and I now see a NC day as the reward. Always remembering that my thoughts are my own and while they can trigger everything from happiness, resentment, anxiety, depression, guilt, shame, jealousy I take solace knowing I haven’t made contact or reached out to mutual friends so no one else is none the wiser.
I have a firm belief that in time this will fade and I will recognise it just as a fantasy. I can’t wait for the day when the internal monologue stops but it is more manageable each day and if that takes many more months then so be it, but NC will still be achieved and at some point my thoughts will be my own again.
Fairly standard 18 months-2 years. Usually starts with brief relationship with LO during which I fall heavily and they don’t then that awful breaking up but lets be friends and me falling deep into an LE which sadly usually becomes a bit toxic (and in younger days triggered a bit of mild stalking/engineered meeting etc.) until NC.
One LE ended really well though because LO addressed it head on and was very candid. He identified my behaviour, acknowledged our past (we’d slept together a handful of times) and basically said ‘I only want friendship, I have a partner I love very much, and I want you to take as long as necessary to get over this, then happy to be mates’. He also said and this was incredibly helpful, ‘I will never want to have sex with you again.’ Not harshly- but firmly.
It was hard to hear, but my LE with him ended super quickly. After months of rumination it fizzled in days.
Also – to be clear, he was in an open marriage, but ongoing meaningful outside relationships were prohibited. Hence his approach to our encounter.
We are now friends and can go for food and I’ll not think anything more of it.
Compared to the confusion of my other LEs this one couldn’t have worked out better. BUT – its worth noting, the boundaries were hard, clear AND they came from LO, not me! I guess we can’t always hope our LOs will do the heavy lifting.
@Thomas- Your story reminds me of George Michael’s (God rest his soul!)… he fell deeply in love once and after his bf died, he could never find anyone that measured up but he tried, nevertheless. All of his partners afterward were flings that he would attempt to have a relationship with but none of them wanted commitment and ended up friendzoning him. He never got over his first love.
Grief ultimately killed the man.
Ah, no. While the death of his first partner hit him hard, he went on to have 2 long-term partners.
And he died of a heart condition – cardiomyopathy.
On ‘entitlement’. This is something that occurred to me very recently. If I text a friend and they don’t respond immediately or within minutes then I assume they’re busy, or I’ll happily acknowledge that my text doesn’t really demand a reply (maybe a link to something we spoke about which is self explanatory for example or a photo of something silly/inane…).
But it’s so true about the LO. If I text my current LO ‘I watched the end of (insert boxset/film etc.) and don’t receive a reply instantly/virtually instantly I immediately go to ‘why are they ignoring me?/they’re actually very selfish and unkind/they’re probably busy flirting with someone (how dare they!)’ Etc.
Almost as if the most important job in their day should be congratulating me on watching a bit of TV. Which should then (naturally!) lead to some kind of romantic/intimate gesture that I can get a little buzz from.
I don’t demand that my friends are constantly on the lookout to make me feel happy and validated, I don’t resent them for having rounded lives of which I am only a small part (in the big scheme of things!). But my LO? How dare they take even a second to eat or breathe when I’m sat here needing to feel ‘the love’.
Seriously entitled behaviour. Feeling proud today though because I got a deeply unsatisfying short text from LO and resisted the urge to respond with a massive provocative overshare to garner more attention. I just accepted the short answer (to my banal prompt) and deleted the text thread entirely. I’ve removed all his contact details from my phone so unless he texts at some point I can’t easily throw out random attention seeking messages (which is if course also a common pattern when I’m deep in a miserable LE).
He owes me nothing. He owes me less than my mates and I’ve never even thought about healthy friendships in those terms anyway.
Let’s see.
Oh Thomas, I can certainly relate to your post….I am still in this awful ‘entitlement’ stage…I dream up the most mundane of messages, just to get some sort of reply, and of course if I don’t, I get very upset, how dare he not reply…of course the poor boy has no idea that I’m sitting here checking the computer every few minutes…how pathetic…..of course he has a life and fiance so why should I expect him to reply to my messages………I would like to ask one question of members on here…..has anyone offered their LO ‘rewards’ or offered to help them out financially etc….just to keep their interest, or keep them in their lives in some way………….
Hi Maureen,
I’ve fantasised about lending my financially struggling LO money out of my savings (what there is of them…) but fortunately I understand that would be madness.
In saner moments I also realise he’s struggling because of his own poor decisions (he’s got a perfectly reasonable job, with an ok income).
But obsessive rumination takes you to all sorts of ‘possibles’ and ‘what-ifs’ doesn’t it?
Hi Thomas, Vincent, it certainly does……I have offered to help LO out financially during these difficult times, but fortunately for me (I think) he said that he and his fiance are fine. (Her family is looking after them, and they have both now found work). On my part, I just simple was trying to find some kind of way to stay connected…..so I didn’t get any kind of satisfaction really, except to let him know that there is help there if needed.
Thomas, for me, the LE must have began almost immediately….but after that 7 day tour, it wasn’t until a few months later, that I manage to find this site and realize what was happening….I still haven’t figured out what it is about him, other than his looks….I didn’t have enough time to get to know him at all, which makes it all so strange….and of course the huge age gap, now that’s just insane……..***In my case I then just incorporate whatever more I learn about them into feeding my LE… or minimise anything I discover which doesn’t fit my fantasy.**** Thomas, my sentiments exactly….
On the other hand I buy most of the drinks when he suggests hanging out.
@Maureen – I gave my LO a job, trained her personally (when that should have been done by someone below me), bought her a birthday present, and I basically got her the current job she has. Albeit that last one was more me feeling guilty about going NC than winning favour. There are a few other financial related things too. So yes, it was a key part of our relationship I’d say. I liked the feeling of power, I liked her reaction and of course it brought us closer together each time. At least in my eyes.
Vincent, I guess that by offering financial help, it would have strengthened the connection in some way, but sadly for me, that just didn’t happen……I’m still hoping though, that it might happen at some point, but in reality, I must accept the fact that I will never be part of LO’s life, not even in the smallest of ways……..sigh.
I got extremely angry if he ignored me when asking to meet (he responded to everything else but my question about lets meet, being bluntly ambiguous) Felt entitled totally towards him. But I stayed …
I’m curious, what’s your story with you and Lo Thomas? Are you in a committed relationship? Is he?
Hey Mia,
We have had an on-off thing and sometimes it’s more on than off mainly determined by him. I don’t think he’s being horrible, I think he enjoys the attention. So when he maybe needs the attention then my messages get responses which are a bit more thought out. But when he’s a bit more preoccupied with whatever then he’s more ‘distant’ (honestly I don’t think it takes much… I call not responding to my text for 24 hours ‘distant’) and I’m left ruminating. Though I’m guessing we all know a lot of distressing thoughts and anxieties can go through your head in 24 hours. The funny thing is that I don’t imagine us being marriage material. But I just want to be with him in some other way. Like his financial stuff is awful, and I’m not rich- so I know I don’t want to hitch myself to that wagon in a legally binding sense! But I still sort of want him all to myself, whereas he is very much and very openly happy to an on-off FWB arrangement. I’m a mess basically! (said tongue-in-cheek).
He’s also 29 so there’s a maturity level to consider. Fuck buddies are extremely popular in that generation, gay or not.
Thomas, Does he knows you are really suffering? Or are you hiding that ?
My resolution for my next dating is to be more vulnerable and don’t play the cool chick anymore who is okay with breadcrumbs.
Hi Anxious,
Yeah, I think you’re right. I’d also say I’ve had a few FWBs in my time (it’s more condoned in urban gay culture). But that’s also maybe part of the problem in terms of I’m embarrassed to have attached more to this particular FWB even now it’s pretty much dead in the water of late. Which also feeds into your question Mia, I’m afraid of looking an idiot, or weirdly even looking like the ‘loser’… like ‘this was a bit of fun for you but I’m the idiot who couldn’t keep a grip on their emotions’. Again, age might also play a part… what am I, the silly, flattered, infatuated older dude? 😄🙄
Some really good observations. I guess a limerent person always has LO “on their mind”, so they think/assume LO should always have them “on the mind” and this is rarely the case in reality (except in cases of mutual limerence).
Also, I think a limerent episode can significantly alter somebody’s personality. For example, someone who is NOT naturally entitled, and feels very little need of emotional validation from friends and family, may all of a sudden become very needy. Of course, the neediness will be about craving LO’s attention/approval.
Just seen this Sammy,
So true! In my non-limerent relationships I’m generally avoidant, in fact I’ve realised (since following this site down various Google wormholes) even avoidant dismissive! (I’m lovely, honestly.)
Then an LE comes along and it all gets turned on its head. Which is funny really… because there I am probably hitching my wagon to other avoidant types for a ‘bit of fun’, in swoops the LE and I’m a fallen man staring at my phone all day!
You couldn’t make it up!
Thomas: I’m reading this long after you posted it, and I imagine you will not read my comment. But your comments here are exactly what I needed to read today and made me feel less isolated, less alone, less humiliated, less embarrased. Thank you.
Great post DrL and absolutely agree with this from start to finish. Thank you.
It is so very empowering to take responsibility for our own inner and outer responses to our interactions with people. As hard as it can be sometimes, I find digging deep and finding some compassion for the difficult people in my life rarely fails to make me feel that little bit happier. But clinging on to bad feelings always does the opposite.
That’s another good point about difficult people, Allie. Sometimes LOs are difficult, but you’ll feel much better by accepting it and moving on than by getting frustrated by their difficult behaviour.
@Dr L, you’ve written an excellent article! One point that I had considered when reading this piece, is the limerent who, instead of lashing out at their LO, engages in self-destructive behavior, like self-harm, destroying their own belongings or verbal abusing themselves for feeling the way they do, or even lashing out in frustration at their loved ones.
There were times, during the height of my limerence for LOs 1 & 2, that I was frustrated at how I felt and the lack of progress being made with said LOs, and became moodier with my family, behavior I subsequently apologized for (not revealing my limerence). I can’t say I wanted to lash out at my LOs or resented them, but I certainly felt an inward animosity because of the limerence at times, something I’ve learned to control with LOs 3 & 4, thankfully!
Good point, LG. For some personalities, resentment manifests as destructive behaviour directed at themselves rather than at LO. I hadn’t really thought about that when writing this. Maybe worth another post (on how to avoid hurting yourself)…
@Dr L, it was only reading this article that reminded me of those feelings I had with LOs 1 & 2. If you do decide to write a post about limerents using their resentment for self-destructive purposes, I will drop you a line via the contact form and elaborate a bit more about what I felt and how I overcame those feelings. If it can provide some help to other people, then I am more than happy to do my bit! 🙂
First off, thank you for this blog. It’s helped my understanding greatly over my seven months and counting LE with a very hot and cold LO. I can sense my entitlement and am thankful for the self awareness, but regardless the inconsistent behavior on their part is very confusing and painful. Anyway, I just wanted to speak up about the self harm aspect as I have utilized this (unhealthy) coping strategy, just the other day in fact. I feel it’s that lack of control, inability to properly regulate emotion rationally, a lack of support system for the chaos that is a LE, and the resulting overwhelming frustration that leads to the self harm.
Is is normal that after 2 months NC my anger for LO disappeares, the “pressure” of having to leave LO because it was unbearable becomes less, I see my own mistakes toward him more clear and I catch myself being more and more tempted to give it another go instead of detach more.
In the beginning I was so determined to never see LO again, but now i fantasize about me being all calm and going to contact LO soon and he will see the non clingy new me and he will be impressed of course.
It becomes more and more an option. I even think it’s the only logical thing to do and in my brain it will work out, even though I know there is a chance it will not.
It’s like the more I learn the less I let go. I know I will not hurt anyone since we are both single. So what’s there to loose.
I can’t trust my mind anymore, is this just kind of normal to give it a fair chance and try not to freak out this time and see if we slowly can build up something. And if it doesn’t at least I really tried, Or is it my limerent brain that found I new way to insist and I’m fooling myself and waisting months on limerence and most of all try to gain happiness (aka get rid of the pain ) with this idea. Sometimes limerence makes me think I have no idea what is normal and not in love anymore. Looks like after 2 months the longing is getting worse instead of less!
It must be so very hard to resist in your situation Mia i.e. when you are both available and you know there is reciprocation. And who knows what is best or not as it is impossible to predict what will happen over time. Am not sure I would be able to resist that temptation especially when the limerent mind can be so sneaky sometimes – it does everything to persuade us to get more LO contact.
Is it real love or is it person addiction? I guess the key difference being that real love is about how you can meet their needs, person addiction is more about how they can meet yours. Is it the real person you want, or is it mostly about how he makes you feel, or that he fills an inner void? Has anything changed over the last few months that will make the relationship go differently this time?
I must apologise for the tough love, is just what I am feeling like today.
x
If this is your though, I would love to see your soft love. You are not though Alie, you are kind.
And yes it’s difficult because before corona Lo and me where quite happy. And yes it’s def me needing him, and yes I’m def an addiction but isn’t being in love always an addiction.
Deep down I know the answer, I’m not well enough to be in any kind of relationship. I’m not there yet. I should be happy first without needing anyone for that. I’m cracked open and I have some more healing to do. It’s just indeed really hard to let LO go knowing he wants to see me, but than again isn’t banging on my door, but than again I told him I didn’t want to continue us and I needed time, but than again he could know I didnt really mean that
Bla bla that goes on in my mind, but I think everyone here has these kind of conversation in their mind.
That’s a really good question to ask!
Am I seeking them or am I seeking the thrills I get when I’m with them?
Can it be both?
I do really love certain personality traits in LO that I haven’t seen in a lot of other men.
Hi Mia,
I think that’s a question we all have to wrestle with. The glimmer doesn’t just come out of nowhere. I guess it’s trying to work out whether your reaction to those attractive qualities is rational or whether you are maybe overreacting to them? For example I know I tend to find tall men attractive and my LO is tall, but I strongly fetishise his height, I even manage to find his roots (Yorkshire) bizarrely magnetic. I think it’s this borderline between fetishizing your LO and simply sort of just fancying them as a person.
I’ve seen some users here talk about developing LEs really quickly (after just hours of contact) which I don’t experience, I’ll normally need a couple of decent encounters of some duration… but either way, the limerence seems to kick in before I/we have enough info to really establish what they’re like.
In my case I then just incorporate whatever more I learn about them into feeding my LE… or minimise anything I discover which doesn’t fit my fantasy. It seems from my reading on this blog that this is fairly standard for limerents.
Which is why I find separating what I’m genuinely drawn to from the stuff I’ve incorporated after I’ve settled into an LE.
Yes it’s difficult, people in love, also in “normal” love see things out of perspective, and with pink glasses. I think limerents do the same but ×100.
Some traits we love some traits we close our eyes for, some traits we ignore some traits we all off a sudden love when never loved before etc you can’t really distinguish what’s “real” and not. Maybe when out of the fog.
For me, the LE fills a void.
LO1 started right as I started struggling with an illness. She made me think happy thoughts. She distracted me.
LO2 started right as a close family member was in her last year of life with cancer. More happy thoughts, more distractions.
LO3… pesky LO3… I have no idea why the heck it started with her. I think it was because I started noticing signs of interest from her, and it made me think of what I never attained with LO1 and LO2.
Mia,
I certainly relate to this. But I’m afraid I think it is mostly just your limerent brain playing tricks.
Also, the way you describe the fantasy of seeing him again doesn’t sound so great. I too get these pangs (and am currently in an LE where one second I’m sworn to NC then divising ways to make NC unnecessary and then back to square 1).
The reason I say these fantasies don’t sound great is because they still involve you being flawed and needing to change yourself for your LO. So you say he’ll see how ‘non-clingy’ you are and be ‘impressed’. But any progress you’ve made on this involved the work you put in on the NC. With him in the picture, you didn’t grow, and actually your fantasy is like turning up saying ‘please accept me because I’ve worked on being more like what you want’. Imagine how awful it could feel if you get some reciprocation, fall back into LE territory and have to start again. NC is so hard, I can delete all contact details on my phone and find myself going to great lengths hunting down those details all over again… and getting back in touch thinking, ‘now I look cool and aloof… etc.’ It doesn’t take long before I’m on the backfoot though.
Another thing which is similar, is when I go NC it’s not like my LO is beating down my door begging for contact. I go NC and that’s it… until it’s me who cracks. Like you both me and LO are single… but lets be honest, it’s not them calling me out of the blue. Ever, really. We have had an infrequent PA, and they’ve called once or twice when ’round the corner’ and after a quick hook up. But even that sort of thing is far past, and I cycle between NC and relapsing. I’m committed to a recovery mindset now, and small victories (not caving in repeatedly counts!) mean a lot.
But you have 2 months! That’s amazing! But as long as you are longing after this person, and fantasizing about reconnecting on their terms I don’t think you’re out of the woods yet. But you’re further than me, (and many on here I’d reckon.) So keep going, you’re doing yourself proud!
I took a screenshot of your words.
” Me being more of what you want ” it’s like the opposite of what I intend to do with my recovery! I never want to mold myself again for anyone. Not that LO demanded that, I just thought I wasn’t good enough, and apparently still believe that.
Thank you Thomas, putting me back on track! Sneaky limerence !
It’s so weird isn’t it? So awful not feeling ‘good enough’ but then you think ‘good enough for what?’ Just not ‘good enough.’
Then giving away that power to judge it to somebody else. I’ve done it so many times. Maybe there’s something seductive about outsourcing the judgement. In our imagination convincing somebody else is easier than convincing ourselves. But also, I’m not sure I ever really showed an LO what I was actually like during an LE. I’m too focused on trying to push the right buttons (the humour, the taste in music, the opinions about this or that…) and so sometimes it’s all good when there’s genuine common ground, but sometimes I find myself censoring what I think to quite a big degree. My current LO is awful with money, in debt, etc. But when they moan about it, I don’t offer constructive criticism or advice like I would to a friend, I just agree with their skewed ‘the world is out to get me’ narrative… so then they feel consoled and express gratitude, and thank me for my kindness and understanding etc. At which point I feel really happy to have fostered that. But I’ve not been authentic, I’ve just told them what I know they want to hear…
But even knowing that doesn’t stop me doing it! 🤷♂️
Yes Steve, I know it sounds good, an LO who was crazy in love with me and maybe could be again but there is a reason I went NC. I couldn’t handle it after a happy periode, as soon as I realized I really loved him I felt rejected all the time when there was non, I freaked out about everything. No matter how he tried to reassure me, I wanted more and more That wasn’t a life, he dictated my hormones without knowing, and of course I tried to hide that so I felt like a fake self too. It was awful at the end. So no being with LO is not an option, at least not for now.
It would be a quick fix.
It’s interesting to me that men go through this too. I was fully aware that limerance happens to men but there’s still this societal image of that love stricken woman who would be the ultimate pursuer who couldn’t let go. Men seem to move on much quicker from my own experience. Or maybe they hide it better? Anyway, I wonder if Thomas’s LO could be using him for sex like many men do to women. Or is she an attention seeking Narc? Or emotionally unintelligent when it comes to dating.
Hey anxious,
I’m gay, so though I made the effort in my account to not be gender specific- we’re both men. I’m my darker moments I do wonder if my LO is a narc. He’s a bit younger (I’m 42 he’s 29) and sure expands a lot of energy on Instagram. 😀
Anxious,
…also he’s almost certainly using me for sex when other options are thin on the ground.
…and I get to have that (which for unconsummated limerents must sound great) but then if he’s distant for 3 weeks after while I’m back to daydreaming all day long.
God. How embarrassing.
‘Sometimes limerence makes me think I have no idea what is normal and not in love anymore.’
My longest, happiest relationship of many years did not come with the fireworks or explosions, and although it was desperately sad when it ended it did not come with the sleeplessness, the physical heart pains, the endless miserable rumination. For some time I felt guilty that I wasn’t really in love. But actually I now believe it was with somebody I wasn’t limerent for. But it was my steadiest, most supportive and most intimate relationship.
I’m not sure I could achieve that with an LO, partly because of my attitudes and partly because of my choice of LOs.
Fair enough
On basically everything you just wrote.
I think it’s time to implement fase 2 of my recovery.
New hobby’s and some overall newness.
Thank you Thomas, I know I still have LO on a pedestal.
Darn it.
Which is obviously wrong. Because if you met my LO you’d immediately realise that they are on fact the best person in the world! (Oh dear…) 😉
Yours is a tough case..
A reciprocating LO
Seems like a no-brainer to me, but my judgement is at all time low. I guess you could think it over more and hope some direction presents itself. And lm sure he thinks about you, so that must be kinda cool.
Cool in a herion-addict-trying-to-quit-while-having-a-syringe-full-of-drug-in-front-them-the-whole-time kind of way.
Straight rejection has been the fastest route to ending my LEs in the past, not reciprocation…..isn’t ending the LE what know is best for us, even if we don’t always want to?
@Mia… that’s why the cliche about that time heals is bullshit. I believe we just learn to live with the pain of unrequited love. Maybe recovery really means acceptance.
The sense of entitlement really resonated with me DrL. Iv been managing reasonably well this past couple of weeks. My LO is my fiancé’s sons girlfriend, she is heavily pregnant (have been limerent for her for around 3 years). She is due her baby this weekend so I messaged her a few days ago on WhatsApp to ask her how she was managing and to wish her well. We get on very well but she has no idea of my feelings for her.She still hasn’t read the message (even though she has been active on the app). I felt so deflated and angry about this I took it out on my SO, we argued and I was ignorant to her. All because my LO didn’t read my message. It really is ridiculous when you think about. We will never know what LO’s think, that’s the hardest thing for me to deal with, what are their motives? I do think it’s rude not to read a message (as we are quite close) but that’s her prerogative. I’m hoping this will help in the de-idealisation process as it’s impossible for me to go NC.
I’ve totally been there (LO leaving msgs unread, driving me crazy). The plain truth is that I probably come across as a lovesick puppy, and she’s trying to gently hint that she’s not interested (at least not in the way I want). Of course, my limerent lizard brain would then insist that our feelings are mutual, and that she’s trying her best to recover from limerence by ignoring my texts the best she can! 🙂
Consider the strong possibility that she just doesn’t care to respond. I used to send texts to my “have ghosted me since” LO that were asking him directly “why haven’t you responded to me, why is your communication etiquette so poor?” and sometimes he didn’t respond, sometimes he did with apologies that he was “busy.” It took a loong time for me to realize that busy is code for “I just don’t care.” The sense of shame about my behavior is partly what keeps me from moving on. It’s pathetic to beg for someone’s attention. So demeaning and must be a turn off to the other party, I’d imagine.
Kinerd, definitely been there. Imagining that they’re struggling with limerence. Then I go NC to give them space, before panicking that they’ll misread the signal… and off goes another random WhatsApp about the weather, or breakfast, or a funny meme.
Anxious, sadly also been there! When I spill my guts in a huge message culminating in a question (you know, as bait)… and you get – ‘Yeah. I’m alright. Busy.’ About 48 hours later.
After a while it sinks in, then I start hurting… I feel like WhatsApp is the devil when it comes to limerence ticks, double ticks, blue ticks… christ it’s exhausting sometimes.
Yeah I don’t think you can call out the other party for their communication style. The whole two-grey-ticks thing on WhatsApp or the lack of a like or even a “seen” to a social media DM is infuriating to me. But I’m someone that thinks a lot about how I come across to others, and frankly worry about how I’m perceived. I then hold others to my same standards and of course they fall short. That’s my problem, not their’s.
In relationships where I feel secure – my SO, family, lifelong friends – a few hours could easily go by before I realise they haven’t responded, but I know they will so I don’t fret. With an LO, by definition you are uncertain about their feelings and so each text or DM is a micro-sign of their feelings towards you (at least in your mind). So the importance is heightened off the scale.
When an LO hasn’t responded to the message and yet you can see they’ve been on WhatsApp, FB, IG etc then that really smarts. My response though is typically “FU” though, and I leave it. Even when they eventually respond I’ll not reply back. We’ll then have a period of silence and I’ll hold out until they break first…. which they always seem to do, and often it’s followed by a barrage of contact.
Cool and Aloof works, even when you weren’t actually either! 😂
@Vincent Couldn’t agree more. I’m also big on the whole “thinking a lot about how I come across to others”, so I always respond to messages as soon as I see them.
It’s been exactly a month since my last message to LO appreciating her sincerity and it’s still marked as unread, despite her been active in whatsapp. LO already told me she’s hellishly unreliable with the phone, so in a way I still think about sending a message checking out on her because I’m pretty sure she’ll respond, but then I think “What I’m going to achieve with this?”. Not to mention that the possibility that this time the ghosting is intentional is also keeping me back. Not particulary keen on having a big relapse by getting humiliated with her indifference.
@Benjamin,
I’ve had LOs who are ‘rubbish on the phone etc.’
I think there are two things:
First, how true is that? Because let’s face it, if they really were engaged they wouldn’t be rubbish on the phone. My current LO is more communicative when he wants attention. Then suddenly it’s back to being ‘ditzy’ or whatever when the need subsides or (I assume) another source of attention distracts him away.
The second point is if we believe that it really is possible to not communicate with somebody for a long period without that being due to lack of interest. Even if your LO is being truthful that this is their ‘normal’ then they sound like a nightmare to be limerent for. Because you know… the pain!
They may not be a terrible person, but for your mental health I’d certainly hold on to your reasoning about not getting in touch. Because you (might, not guaranteed) get that reciprocation… but then how will the next month of 2 grey ticks feel when it comes around?
I’m sore today because I held out for a week (!) then LO made contact, suggested a drink, and yesterday cancelled last minute because they’d been to a great party the night before and were too hungover to come out. Obviously if this was anyone else I’d shrug my shoulders and accept that it happens. As it is I feel utterly crushed.
If you can see being let down as part of a cycle, try to resist, even if they are apparently incapable of managing to read a WhatsApp in a reasonable time frame!
There is a saying that “if they wanted to be with you they would be”, and communication is just a lens for that really. If they wanted to reply to your message, they would. Something is stopping them from doing so. For me it is either:
a) Indifference. They just aren’t that into you, you’re not top of mind and someone else probably has their attention. (extreme version being annoyance – you’re an irritation and they are trying to send you a message or they’re just a narc)
b) Self-preservation. They like you, maybe a lot, but you (or they) are unavailable and they feel like they’re playing with fire with the messaging. So they dial it down, play cool, maybe even feign indifference so that they don’t make a fool of themselves. But they don’t like the silence, so eventually it starts back up again (extreme version being they are limerent themselves, or suffer from some anxiety issues or personality disorder)
Having said that I suspect my LO was somewhere in the middle of the two. I remember when she’d irritated me with something so I didn’t reply to her message until the next day, and it was a very matter of fact reply. Knowing something was up she replied instantly… “Are you OK? Have I done something?”. Then I’m sure not long after she would have “grey-ticked” me and wrestled back control. It felt like a game of tennis – someone always had the upper hand, but who it was changed.
Thanks, Thomas. Very true the thing about your LO and hangover and how if he were just a friend you wouldn’t have minded at all. I can see myself feeling exactly like you. Hell, I’d make a pretty nightmarish LO myself because, even if I always answer texts as I see them, I rarely initiate conversations, even with close friends.
Right now I’m in a limbo in regards to LO where I can see her for what she is, a normal human with virtues and flaws, yet for some reason I can’t shake her off me. I’ve even developed the annoying habit of subconsciously looking for her whenever I’m out, even when there’s not much of a possibility of us bumping into each other.
It’s making me seriously angry, but not at LO, at myself. We didn’t even have that much of a meaningful connection, just some text messages during Corona lockdown and that’s it, so why I can’t stop thinking about her? Top that with the very realistic possibility that she doesn’t think of me much (if at all), and you can see how frustrating it’s all. So thanks for the push in the right direction, man.
Vincent: Your pts on indifference and self-preservation are so so true! It’s certainly like a game of tennis in my experience. Usually, the person who blinks first releases a whole barrage of texts on the other party, before switching roles being the silent one the next round.
Article of the Day: https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-anger-and-vs-resentment/#:~:text=The%20difference%20between%20anger%20and,bitterness%20that%20the%20individual%20experiences.
This is a good article.
If you carry this into the 5 Stages of Grief, resentment is a low grade anger that persists and keeps you from moving on to Acceptance.
Okay, very well, Dr.L and your thoughts on resentment have been noted. But how do you feel about LO who proclaims friendship then is being a bad friend? I’d say, I should call him out on his bad manners? I’m specifically referring to such simple thing as… he promises to call but doesn’t. I no longer obsess as much as to why but whether the motherfucker needs to be told that he’s been rude. That’s why I consider my own situation as it being self imposed NC because he drops the ball on communicating. So I’ve finally decided that I will not reach out again and so this very likely could turn out to be a classic ghosting scenario but a part of me still wants a confrontation about “how fucking dare he” be so inconsiderate and compassion less?
I can see this bitterness in myself. She acts very high and mighty and points to her patience and forgiveness of me. Unfortunately Anxious, what l have learned is no kind of communication ends well for me. Learned it again in double measure yesterday
…I cycle through this emotion regularly. Then LO comes back into view after weeks of LC from his side…
…and here I am. Available!
I would say that I do honestly hold him to a higher standard than other people… for example a good friend of mine hasn’t texted me for weeks and I’m not resenting her for it! But of course it’s different- because I don’t think about her every day hoping she’s thinking about me….
One way to look at this Anxious: what do you have to gain by forcing LO to face the fact that he is a bad friend? Will that improve the friendship? Will the brief satisfaction of administering justice make a lasting change to your feelings about him?
What if he pushes back and points out that good friends don’t attack each other because they aren’t happy with their communication style?
The main thing for me is that trying to get people to behave the way you think they should usually just ends up costing you a lot of time, energy and frustration. And they still behave as they always did.
Hmm… why? To make him aware that shitty behavior has been noted. Also, maybe he’s really on the spectrum and doesn’t see how poor communication style is hurtful to others? Finally, the way I rationalize it to myself is also that by calling out shitty behavior, I am essentially voicing out loud respect for myself. Even if they don’t have it, obviously. It’s a form of assessing my own boundaries. That being said, I only employ this if they break NC. Otherwise, it goes down as one of those things I wish I would have done but NC was more important. Kwim?
I was my LO’s boss, and because of the age gap our relationship often bordered on parental at times so I’d occasionally administer a telling off. I wouldn’t say I enjoyed it, but sometimes I suspected she did! Some of the things she did I can only assume she was trying to engineer it, which meant we then had to have the 1:1 convos, she would text to apologize later on, I’d forgive her etc. I think she enjoyed the drama or maybe seeing me get wound up.
For the majority of our relationship these tellings-off had to be under the guise of work, but of course it was usually something else that triggered it – her not treating me in the “special” way I wanted if I’m honest with myself. Towards the end though, when she was moving on, and I knew I was heading for NC then I got far more brazen, and just called her out on stuff – which felt pretty good. And the final communication was a pure mic-drop moment where I summed up her behavior and told her I hoped she would lead a happy life but I wouldn’t be in it. Boom.
But in your case A_S its not worth breaking NC to do it. Actions speak louder than words, and walking away says everything you need to.
“What if he pushes back and points out that good friends don’t attack each other because they aren’t happy with their communication style?”
I had a discussion on this subject with LO #4.
She had a habit of either not responding to something I said or if she did, sometimes after weeks, her response had nothing to do with what I said. Ambiguity breeds uncertainty and we know what that does.
I told her I found her style dismissive and explained it to her. I didn’t say she was dismissive, I said her style was. I told her I had an ex-girlfriend who operated that way and I didn’t like it any better coming from LO #4 than I did from the ex. LO #4 said she didn’t intend to be dismissive but, “Based on what you said, I thought it best not to respond to certain things.” She didn’t apologize for her behavior but apologized for upsetting me and said she wouldn’t contact me again.
I responded that I believed she didn’t intend to be dismissive but it came across that way. We were 2500 miles apart, how was I supposed to interpret the silence? I told her my crystal ball wasn’t working and I couldn’t read her mind.
In fact, she was dismissing me since she’d made a unilateral decision not to address what I said. I told her that if I said something out of line, over the line, whatever, say something. I’m a big boy and I can handle it. I told her I don’t like being told “No” but I hate being ignored. I challenged her pretty hard on the “Based on what you said…” She never responded to that but she agreed she’d be more direct in her communication. I got the idea she wasn’t used to being dealt with like this and I backed off in the way I communicated with her.
She agreed and our communication became more direct. From the time that happened until the time she said said goodbye was about 3 months. Her goodbye was gracious, direct, and left no doubt in my mind as to why she was doing it.
Mission accomplished.
Dr.L, I think you have actually defined what limerence is in the first paragraph: it occurs primarily in a situation that involves someone not free/willing to reciprocate. It almost guarantees sourness. When both people can and do reciprocate, perhaps instead of limerence, it’s just good old-fashioned, straightforward love. Maybe resentment in not getting reciprocation is a symptom of the lack of real love. It reveals the self-gratifying and illusionary nature of limerence, an imitation of love which, by contrast, is actually generous and other-centred in spirit. That’s why not everyone can truly love. Just a thought.
https://www.hipsobriety.com/home/how-to-kill-unrequited-love
Thank you for sharing that! I am actually working through the Tempest program right now (the author of the post you started a sobriety program geared for women and non-binary folk-for those that don’t know) and find it truly healing to get at the root of this mess. It’s amazing.
Yes feeling resentment for Lo at times feels pretty natural, but it can lead to dark places. I guess the thing is to acknowledge it, but really try to defeat it or else ultimately it will surely defeat you or lead you down a bitter lonely road
Thomas, Does he knows you are really suffering? Or are you hiding that ?
My resolution for my next dating is to be more vulnerable and don’t play the cool chick anymore who is okay with breadcrumbs.
Mia, he’s gay lol but your advice still applies;)
Yeah. Its just as easy to play the ‘cool dude’s who is ok with breadcrumbs!’ Probably whether your LO is a guy or a gal… or in fact not subscribing to either of those categories!
Mia, I actually phoned him yesterday, spilt my guts and said I needed NC. He was very non-committal which infuriated me. Acknowledged feelings/etc. But played his cards close to his chest. But at least I’ve cut the line so I’m no longer dangling.
This morning I went through my phone and removed any traces I could find. Photos, WhatsApp chats, messages and I deleted him from my contacts and even deleted all records of his number from my call history. Now I feel numb, but I’m allowing myself a day to wallow in bed (I’ve got stuff to do, but nothing that can’t wait until tomorrow).
The thing is he might not have fully grasped the limerence thing, but he sure as hell knew he was playing with my feelings. I didn’t put anything to hard on him, but I explained that this is just how my mind works, it wasn’t healthy for me, and I needed to cut communication ‘for the foreseeable future’.
Article of the Day: https://thoughtcatalog.com/christine-stockton/2020/07/the-truth-about-the-guy-who-just-wants-to-see-where-it-goes/
People treat you the way you allow them to.
Im so freaking proud of you Thomas I could disco.
Hurray to cutting the line.
Hurray for claiming your selfrespect back.
Song of the Day: “Heart of Glass” – Blondie (1978)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGU_4-5RaxU
If you do disco, you have to post the video! 🙂
I really like this song. My wife and I were at some fundraiser and they played it. I asked my wife if she wanted to dance. She said she hated the song. A woman across the table said, “I love it! Let’s go!” And, we did.
After that my wife never again turned down an offer to dance.
I think to defeat resentment, you have to understand it. The emotion is genuine but what’s causing it.
[Resentment] “It is not based on a present event but on a number of past events, which may be ignited by the present event. Resentment usually involves reliving a painful experience again and again.”
I thought about this and there are only two people I can remember in my life I held true resentment for, my mother and LO #2. Interestingly, I resented them both for the same offense. And, past events were triggered by, at the time, present events.
As a kid, I didn’t understand my mother’s alcoholism. She told me she had epilepsy and that’s why her behavior was so erratic. When she disappeared for 5 years, I didn’t understand. It was when she came back into my life that I began to resent her. She took off on me and then cruised back into my life as if nothing happened? To make it worse, as her only child, I’d be responsible for her as she got older. I had plans for my life and they didn’t include taking care of an alcoholic. She died of an accidental overdose of placidyl and alcohol a month before I graduated HS neatly taking care of that problem. It took a lot of work with the therapist to dismantle that resentment. My daughter is named after my mother. When I told my aunt, she said, “You don’t know how good it makes me feel to know that you’ve finally forgiven your mother.”
When LO #2 left, I was sad. If when she said she wasn’t coming back, she’d said something like, “I’ve thought a lot about it and I just don’t see us going the distance. I hope you find someone who does. We had some really good times together,” she’d have gone down in the books as the second best thing to ever happen to me. But, she didn’t. She demoted me from Boy Friend to Best Friend. In retrospect, we had a largely transactional relationship. She traded sex for friendship. When I stopped getting laid, I stopped getting paid. But, she expected the same degree of emotional support she did before. She felt she could cruise into and out of my life as she wanted. That’s when I began to resent her. But, that ended when I met my wife and kicked her to the curb.
LO #4 had a habit of ignoring or not responding to what I said and coming around as if nothing had happened. But, this time, rather than take it, I went to war with her. I was angry with LO #4, but it never turned into resentment.
The point is. Resentment appears to need fuel. Once the fuel is gone, the resentment took care of itself.
I had one conversation with LO #2 in which resentment came up. LO #2 told me, “You did everything I ever asked of you. The harder you tried, the more I resented you for it.” It blew my mind. I mentioned it to the therapist once and asked what that meant. The therapist said her bet was that more I tried to demonstrate that LO #2 was lovable, the more uncomfortable LO #2 became. LO #2 resented me for bringing up those emotions. Maybe, I don’t know.
This article explains a friendship in my life that went bad really fast for no apparent reason. I was not limerent for this person. I was only mildly friendly with them on social media, playing find-a-word games, etc. They must have read more into the interaction than there was. We weren’t friends very long either.
I never flirted with this woman. She was in a happy marriage, as far as I know, so it never occurred to me to flirt with her. Flirting with someone who is obviously “taken” just seems pointless. Also, it never occurred to me she could even develop feelings for anyone other than her partner. I was limerent for someone else at the time, and had no feelings whatsoever for this particular individual.
The bitterness that resulted when I kind of forgot about this friendship, mostly out of sheer boredom, was incredible. It’s hard to believe people can become so emotionally involved with someone they’ve only had superficial contact with.
I’ve been limerent and I’ve been LO, never for the same person. Honestly, it’s terrifying to be on the receiving end of someone’s limerence, once the entitlement-fuelled anger and bitterness has set it. I can empathise with limerent suffering, having felt it myself. Still, a supposedly innocent crush that ends in masses of resentment isn’t flattering – it’s shocking and horrible and very difficult for most people to understand. Even as a limerent myself, I was taken aback.
Sam I totally agree! I have been the LO of several guys, and some of them became weirdly stalker-ish and I was sooo creeped out. I honestly did not think I was leading them on, I was just friendly and nice and a couple of them I totally forgot about after our brief interactions. One them called me after years (and he knew I was then married and knew my husband) and said in this creepy voice “I guess you know who this is?”. I did not recognize his voice, but he identified himself and then disclosed his love for me….that had been simmering for years. PSYCHO! It’s memories like these that make me determined not to let any LO know the depth of my limerent feelings ….I actually regret disclosing to the last one– (who actually didn’t seem creeped out in the slightest and wanted to be besties) because typically it just is too much for them to understand and sympathize with and if anything it makes us seem unattractively needy and well, it’s just not a way I want to be remembered. Pondering these memories is a real cold shower on limerence.
Well, thank you! for a fresh reminder that NC is indeed mandatory for some of us. My absolute biggest fear is that LO will think of me as a stalker or unstable. I am neither but it’s a thin line from limerance to such, isn’t? But guess what? In a few days time I’ll get around writing something on here that will shock some of you. It will be more of a question and opinionseeking as I’m contemplating a move that may easily put me in a stalker category if found out. Stay tuned. Need to find a way how to explain my plan.
Although thank God im not the stalker typen, I dont even look at social media, I can somehow understand the stalkers mind, they really think that they have this special connection with their victim and thats its just a misanderstanding that the victim doesnt see that, deep down they know it, they must!”
I catch myself with the same thoughts sometimes, “off course LO thinks Im the one, I mean, I am ! ”
Ai
You got me curious ( :
I have danced along that line. As with all else limerent, highly unpleasant and disturbing. Fuck, I grew to hate limerence more than anything. I cannot see 1 good thing about it. Simply a curse.
My CO on the sub once said, “There’s a fine line between assertive and obnoxious. You, Scharnhorst, are frequently on the wrong side of that line.”
Change it to, “There’s a fine line between cute and creepy.”
LO #2 once said that I was “relentlessly persistent.” My wife said my assertiveness scared her.
But, nothing I did could get me fired, arrested, or rose to the level of a restraining order.
This one’s for you, AS!
“It will be more of a question and opinionseeking as I’m contemplating a move that may easily put me in a stalker category if found out. Stay tuned.”
Clip of the Day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h4DZeBleLs – “Animal House” (1978)
“Let’s do this!”
LO #1 and I saw this on our first date. I had originally asked her roommate but her roommate pawned me off on her.
Anxious_Soul…..it sure is a thin line from limerence to stalker, and I’m sure that I have become a stalker, but being an old lady, no one seems to notice…..although I am careful to try not to be on line at the same time as LO….I am anxiously awaiting your ‘move’….maybe I could replicate it for my LE…..I am feeling so lost….not sure what to do next….I sit here dreaming up lame valid excuses to message him….I’ve already offered to help financially, that didn’t work, he did answer, but is doing ok without my help……..not sure what I can do next, anything to stay in touch without seeming desperate…..
Hi Maureen,
Have you ever thought about disclosing to LO? I understand it doesnt sound very appealing, but you seem stuck. You say therapy is not a possibility in your small town ( cant you pretend to go for something completely different? I asume your therapist has professional secrecy)
What about being completely honest to LO, to get out of this dead end. What do you have to loose, Maybe ask him to block you or never react again. I understand it does sound very scary, but I feel for you, and I think we all do.
I think the problem what started the LO was that there was symmetry. If we were both available, it would have been the first stages of falling in love and I think we would have had a very high chance of developing a meaningful relationship. It was a de-ja-vu experience of when I fell in love with my SO, who I by the way still have a great marriage with.
My LO and I talked for a total of maybe 10-15 hours and in this time I feel like I got a good impression of who he was. When I was with him, I felt comfortable just being myself because I felt seen and understood. This experience in which I could be myself again was exactly the motivation I needed to start getting out of my depression. Re-analyzing what exactly I liked about him made me realize what I valued in life and who I wanted to be as a person. I don’t think that I idealized him too much, it was more like getting to know him restored some of my faith in humanity that I had lost in the months before.
My LO and I both disclosed through texts but went no contact before things got too out of hand. After a year I sent him a message to apologize for (unintentionally) flirting with him and then disclosing (I was the first to disclose). I somehow thought this would reduce my limerence, but it only helped for a little while. He responded kindly that I shouldn’t feel too guilty about things, but of course that NC was best for everyone, which I totally agreed to.
Of course my limerent brain likes to think that he is still thinking about me as much as I think about him. We both change our profile photos every few weeks and they are usually funny, happy photos, including our families and hobbies. I like to think of these photos as a telling a story of the lives that weren’t disrupted by an affair and that makes me happy. There’s no bitterness or sourness involved in my LE, just a bit of sadness and frustration that we can’t play a part in each others lives.
Does your husband knows you’re a cheater? Telling him would be the first step.
What definition of cheater are you using Snowflake? It sounds like Lisa isn’t a cheater to me.
I wouldn’t at all consider myself a cheater. We never even touched and I told my SO about my feelings for my LO soon thereafter. He understood a little as he realized that he hadn’t really been there for me when I needed him. My SO was ok with me contacting my LO after a year as he also hoped that it would help. I just have agreed to not talk about my limerent struggles anymore with my SO as I don’t think it adds anything.
@Lisa,
I identify with every bit of what you said. When my glimmer occurred, it brought to the surface emotions I hadn’t felt since I met my SO over 20 years ago. And nothing is wrong with my marriage (that I can tell); we are still deeply in love.
What you said about LO making you realize what you value in life and who you want to be as a person – that is EXACTLY it. I was journaling recently about this very topic. In a rare moment of feeling that I had completely conquered this LE, I wrote this:
“She represented a version of myself that I had lost. I constantly was in a struggle to be like her and my subconscious confused that with wanting to be WITH her. She represented something deep inside me that I had abandoned long ago. The free-spirited, artistic, edgy, alternative, care-free side of me.”
I wonder if Dr. L has written any about this idea. I’m reminded of the “twin flames” posts to some extent. It’s like we recognize a potential twin flame (one who cannot be our soul mate but who causes a monumental awakening inside ourselves; like we are looking into a mirror of our soul), but our limerent brain confuses the concept of wanting to embrace those feelings with wanting an actual relationship with LO as a person. My LO caused me to identify things about myself that I had either forgotten or had pushed aside as I entered adulthood and started bearing all of the responsibilities that comes with that. LO lives her life the way I wish I lived mine. While I know we probably would have been compatible if there were no barriers to us being together, I shouldn’t confuse the extraordinary impact she has had on my self-awareness with something superficial like desiring an EA or PA with her. I think the temptation to confuse these two concepts exists because introspection is hard work; while simply cultivating emotional/romantic feelings for someone just feels natural (as does an EA or PA, if there is mutual attraction). It’s like we take the path of least resistance. I know I did.
Wow, B! This is exactly what I feel about my LO. She reminds me so much of how I would like to live my life. She enjoys pubs and nightlife and seems to be quite fun-loving in many ways (although there is a serious side to her as well and I’m not saying she is a drunk or anything like that). I believe she is quite active and takes care of herself. I also like the fact that she appears to have a similar background to mine (the country where I was born) and she seems to share at least some musical tastes with me. The fact that I loved the pub where I met her (I really felt like I had found my place the night I met her even before she approached us) and she is a regular there made me think there must be something in common as well. She even shares my love of dogs (although, in all fairness, my wife is also a dog person). In many ways she made me realize what has been missing in my life for so long. She woke me up in so many ways, even if I never see her again as long as I live! I began to focus even more on weight loss, fitness and dressing better, and I realized more than ever that life is too damn short to waste it being miserable, boring and old before my time.
I’m new. I have a long story that I’ll post sooner than later. I’ve been meaning to and I’m not sure what’s holding me back. I can relate so much on this post.
Tell it. It helps. May the force be with you.
This is a fantastic post and if you are limerent and follow these steps to view LO as somebody who is bad for you, I guarantee you will be free from limerence in the near future.
One of the main turning points in my LE when LO let me down, how I felt was in a big way. When confronted he brushed it off like it was nothing and this resulted me spiralling into a dark obsessive path. My reaction was waaay over the stop now I can view it with a clear head. I lost my S*** screamed and cried at him, making me feel even worse about myself. Following the event I was seething for what felt like weeks. I was so hurt that somebody I cared about, somebody who I would have dropped anything for could do that to me.
Once I calmed down, I viewed LO in a very different way. Yes, I was still addicted to the way he previously made me feel but this was the start of my healing. Slowly but surely I began to see more and more of LO’s flaws and the rose tinted glasses started to come off. It did take me quite a while longer to move on fully (with the help of NC) but I do remember this was a critical part in the withdrawal process. Use these negative experiences as a way to train yourself to view LO in a negative way. Good luck everybody
Questions of the Day: “What do you bring to the table and why should your LO care?”
A common thread at LwL is we often foist ourselves upon our LOs. Sometimes they like it, sometimes they don’t. But…
– What do we really offer them?
– Is limerence essentially transactional?
We think we offer them something and we want something (i.e, reciprocation) in return. But, do they really owe us anything (entitlement)?
Ai, good questions again Sharn,
– I would offer him a complicated long distance relationship with a lot of frustration, and of course my obsessive love and fear and wanting him to change.
Hm, never thought of it but that doesnt sound very appealing. Even to me 😀
This gives clarity I must say.
I was completely blind to LO until she foisted herself upon me, albeit unknowingly on her part, ostensibly. I have since determined she is just a flirt, but for whatever reason, it hooked me deeply. Even before I started showing her attention, she consistently put herself in my company unnecessarily and it was quite obvious she had a crush. When I began reciprocating, I became infatuated. Only after I was drowning in my LE did I realize she is not limerent for me, and it was only a harmless crush for her; one of probably 1000 others she has because she is just a flirt.
So to answer your questions, what I brought to the table was flirting with action when she probably only wanted flirting. After it became clear I was besotted, I think she became addicted to the attention I showed her, and I think she probably still is addicted to that. My disclosure certainly did not scare her off. She still comes back for what she gets out of the relationship. So yes, I think it is transactional in theory, but it is not necessarily a two-way street. She keeps getting what she wants (attention), but I do not. Yet I keep giving it to her. It’s like someone standing at a cash register continually paying for goods but not getting them. Or maybe more accurately, a slot machine. I am addicted to the (remote) chance of a jackpot, but the house always wins; I will just end up disappointed and broke (emotionally).
When I was going through some health issues last year, I killed time watching “Game of Thrones” with my kids. All eight seasons worth.
It hit me, I was Jorah Mormont to LO #4’s Daenerys Targaryen. She would never be his, no matter what he said or did. But, he would never give up on her. Bypassing the morality of doing something I shouldn’t have been doing, it wasn’t a role I wanted to play. I’m not that self-sacrificing. I grew up outside Chicago. I want my cut! I suspect had I been in the position to pursue the LE, I think that’s where I’d have ended up.
I was on a lot of drugs at the time so I may re-watch it at some point.
That’s a good question.
What do I offer my LO?
I’m older, mature, intelligent, attractive, witty, personable, successful, and I get along with kids and animals.
What do I not offer her?
Youth. I’m almost twice her age.
What does she offer me?
She’s intelligent and younger.
What does she not offer me?
Personality, success, and wittiness.
I don’t offer my LO anything. I’m a married man, I have a wife who loves me, I have a family, and I’m foolish to think I’d be better off with LO.
Repeat endlessly.
🙂
What do I offer my LO? Ha. Remember when we talked about the attractiveness scale? I’m way higher on it than LO! Superficiality aside, I offer him the fact that he won’t be judged in public for the way I look. But seriously, I am KIND AF, an empath, get along with most and connect with people. I would def meet his emotional needs, if he let me lol
I am fun, witty, one of the coolest gfs he could have…
I am also independent financially and really, could give him enough personal space.
What he offers me? 🤔
••••••
Still thinking…
He’s a great observer of people and the world… notices details others don’t. I dig it. Smart and a great conversationalist. Wouldn’t embarass me in public, good manners, polite…
I almost threw in sex part into the list but I’ve decided he hasn’t been a great lover, it’s my attraction to him that allows me to believe that sex was better than it actually was. Anyway, the sex was so long ago, he’s had it with others since.
Totally agree with the sex thing. I actually think that an ongoing LE accentuates my sexual experience… then in retrospect you realise it wasn’t actually anything THEY did… at least to some degree. I’ve had a genuinely very strong intimate connection with a couple of LOs, but for a couple I was certainly putting on rose tinted glasses BEFORE hopping into bed. (I’m mildly embarrassed that I probably raved at these people about what super lovers they were… as they tended to be the narky ones to begin with…)
Which makes me realise one thing they got from me guaranteed rave reviews of sexual performance!
I have my annual performance appraisal at work tomorrow…with my boss LO. My first since my LE started. Can’t say I am looking forward to it.
On the plus side, I will get one hour of uninterrupted one-on-one time with LO. On the negative side, I must maintain a believable veneer of normal-coworker-that-is-not-completely-infatuated-with-him and focused professionalism for an entire hour….eeek! Should be easier via video call than would have been face-to-face at least. Though not nearly as nice.
This LE is the source of so many contradictions. Sigh.
That’s a tough one. Hope he gives you a good review! 🙂
Contradiction, oh yes.
Good luck Allie! You can pull it of.
How did it go, Allie?
Thanks for the support! It went well…..a good review and all very professional on both sides. I was probably a bit subdued and not quite my usual warm & friendly self so some ruminating and regret over that but am happy overall.
Hi Mia…sadly disclosure just isn’t an option at this point in time…for one thing I would be so totally embarrassed, and we have mutual ‘friends’ on FB, and most of my family is also on there…so if it ever became public knowledge, I don’t know what I would do….plus my friend and I are booked on another tour next year, and there is a possibility that LO could be our tour leader….how embarrassing would that be if he knew, it would totally ruin our holiday….right now, I also have issues with family going on, plus hubby’s illness, so I don’t think I could handle the thought of going completely NC right now….maybe at some point….LO and I are in contact, he sometimes ‘likes’ my posts, plus when I message him he does, occasionally answer my messages, so for now I have to be happy with that….I know that I’m just prolonging the inevitable, maybe the time will be right at some point…..I’m sure LO thinks of me as some weird old lady that wants to be his surrogate gramma, if only that were the case…….maybe it is and I just don’t see it, I sometimes wonder if I’m trying to replace the grandson that we lost a couple of years ago….I’ll have to dig deeper I think….
Hi Maureen,
Your instincts seem pretty good here – disclosure is only going one way and there are almost certainly deeper issues at play. I’m terribly sorry about your grandson, it seems highly likely that is a driver behind your feelings towards this much younger guy. Have you considered online therapy? Some of these sites are very good and allow you to be discreet. It sounds to me that you do indeed need to dig deeper and figure out what role LO is playing for you, as sorry to be blunt, it’s quite clearly all in your mind. Some therapy could be very beneficial.
My LO was far younger than me, and I was shocked by the depth of feeling I had and how inappropriate it was (she was 20 years younger). Eventually it led me here and to therapy in my attempt to figure it out. In my case I believe there were a whole host of reasons that all culminated in a perfect storm, but a large part was me hitting 40 and LO representing my lost youth and a chance again with the beautiful girl I lost at 19 and never got over (they looked very similar), then added to that issues at home with SO, introversion, history of rejection leading to low self-esteem etc, etc. But understanding all of that was enormously helpful in confronting the problem.
Then I went NC to tackle it. For you NC is actually very straightforward, again sorry to be blunt, but this is only happening on Facebook – you can block him with one click. I think it would be worth a try. If something isn’t working and making you unhappy, you need to change it up. Life’s too short.
@Vincent,
The lost youth thing is interesting… its occurred to me too. My LO is male like me and 13 years younger…(42 vs 29) he goes out to gay clubs and bars and garners the sort of attention I did when I was younger… he basically pretty much lives like I did at that age. It seems turbulent when I look at it… he’s also pretty promiscuous (why not? He’s single) which sends my limerent angst through the roof sometimes. But he’s also passing through a phase of life that I feel deeply nostalgic about and one which for me has passed (even if I am rocking middle aged spread :D)… there might also be a bit of a midlife crisis happening…
Its day 2 of NC. I’m already hoping he’ll make contact. Then telling myself off for being a fool.
Hey @Thomas! I am a very (lol) straight middle aged woman but I relate so much about the nostalgia part… I am also very familiar with the gay culture (or subculture) as many of my friends are LGBT. But put aside the sexual preferences, it is definitely my experience as well that when we look at our younger LOs we sense that generational divide… they are where we were some years ago. That time has passed for us and it adds the extra layer of sadness. Kwim?
Yeah nostalgia is right @Thomas. I’d maybe go further in my case and say that I had a deep yearning for the past, for a time when I was young and free to do what I wanted. It was almost as if as soon as I turned 39, the countdown started to the end of my youth and then the LE kicked in… hard.
LO, just 19 then, seemed to offer a glimpse of this past, one last chance to taste it. When I was with her and she treated me like someone her own age, I could forget that I was married with two kids, a mortgage, car loans, credit card bills etc anchoring me down. She made me feel young again.
Dr L has written about limerence and mid-life crisis and I read a lot about the concept. Of course I was a pretty classic case. In a way it helped, and knowing it would pass was a useful reminder. Roll forward 2-3 years and it has. That yearning isn’t there so much and I’m more accepting of my situation and of course the LE has all but died out.
Hi Vincent. Yes you are quite right, it is all in my mind, and I will try to find some on line therapy sites to help me dig deeper into what’s happening in my mind…..it all seems so unreal, as I have always been a very ‘down to earth’ person…..as it was for you, it could be a host of issues, creating the perfect storm…..NC just isn’t possible right now, I just couldn’t do it…especially if LO ends up as our tour guide next year…(if the tour ever happens given the world situation right now, we had to postpone once already, last May) and he always askes how hubby is doing with the kidney failure, and if he is well………but after digging deeper to see if I can find out what’s going on, and how this all came about, perhaps I will be able to hit that ‘unfriend’ button…….the irony of all this is that I worked for thirty years in psych nursing…..never encountered anything like this though……oh boy.
Maureen it seems your brain thinks that your LO is the keeper of happiness, and there is no happiness in your life anywhere else.
The thing is…you aren’t really happy…you are just feeding an addiction that gives you a pseudo-happiness. It’s true of all of us limerents when we are actively in a limerent episode.
But if we let go…unfriend, go no contact…we go through horrible withdrawals and then we start to find sources of happiness that aren’t related to LO. And it comes from within instead of from a human that we have a very unhealthy relationship with.
You can let go! You wouldn’t be here if you didn’t want to reclaim your life and dignity and self respect. We are all cheering you on.
Hi Jadeux. I came across a quote a little while back that said “don’t put the key to your happiness in someone else’s pocket” and that seems to be so true for us limerents………I’m not sure that I could handle the horrible withdrawals right now though, I have so many other ‘family’ things going on, including two grown granddaughters (sister’s)both with Marfan’s and both recently diagnosed with thoracic aneurisms, both with small children; plus hubby’s kidney failure….. So I really don’t want to pile on the extra stress of going NC for the time being anyway…..it is something that I may be able to manage once things settle down….I am curious as to how many of us actually manage to maintain the NC permanently the first time, and how many have had relapses?……I’m sure I would relapse at least one, maybe more.
Hi Maureen – most of us relapse in one way or another. NC is tough mentally, but nothing worth achieving is had easily. I know lots of us sound like NC evangelists but that’s only because it works.
In my case I couldn’t go NC initially because we worked together, but then the universe transpired to change that just in the nick of time and she left. We fell out in her final days and so NC was quite straightforward after that. 3 months later the anger had gone, and I felt guilty about how things had ended. A couple of people hinted to me that she’d be keen to make up. So I texted her…. and her reply was pretty brutal.
So the relapse was brief but I was annoyed with myself for giving in. But, she effectively sniffed out any lingering hope with her reply and so I then doubled down on my recovery as a result. In a way the relapse was a useful signpost on the road to improvement and I learnt a valuable lesson.
Why don’t you try a few small steps? Unfollow him for a week, see how it feels. Then next time 10 days, etc.
@Maureen,
Vincent is dead right. Build the option to relapse in a longer term plan. Commit to ever increasing periods of NC. Once its finally done, you’ll know. But for most of us ‘never contacting LO again’ is a very stressful nerve wracking concept. So make realistic plans to complete the task. Better to be a little bit timid at first and set achievable goals than be unrealistically heroic and feel guilty when you can’t keep it up. Good luck.
To clarify by ‘build the option to relapse’ I mean plan ‘will only contact LO twice this week’.
You’re acknowledging that NC isn’t realistic at that stage, but you’re planning how much youre ‘allowed to relapse’. That’s how I think of the process.
Hi Thomas and Vincent…hi everyone….thank you for you suggestions, that sounds like a plan that I may be able to stick to….baby steps to begin with….not sure a week would work to begin with, right now I can barely manage a couple of hours away from the computer…but I message him only once a week or week and a half, as I don’t want him to feel as if I’m annoying him……….it’s always on some flimsy excuse, such as , ‘hubby wants to know if you guys are managing ok’ etc…..and I usually get a polite reply, sometimes he asks if hubby is well, of course the boy has no idea what’s going on in my mind……mostly I just check to see if he’s posted anything, same as I do with my other grandkids…..and if he comes on line, I usually log off….,,,,but yes, baby steps might work….I know, I need to get a life, but options are limited for ‘old people’, especially right now….sigh.
So, I don’t know where to put this but maybe someone will read and offer thoughts. I am on the tail end of LO#3. By far the most intense yet. The other two I got over quickly. I’ve read everything on this site and Neurosparkle and both are incredibly helpful. I stopped reaching out to my LO about a year ago. We are both in a friend group that meets about once a month and I have pulled back from that as well. About every two months or so my LO will reach out, plan something and then bail. I have gotten progressively more strict about blocking her as much as I can. She’s on restricted status so she can’t see my fb stuff nor can I see hers. But I do make public posts every now and then ( I keep my boss restricted too just bc privacy) and she’s always one of the first to like or comment or whatever. I blocked her from calling me but stupidly this weekend I checked my blocked messages and surprise, it had been almost 2 months to the day, and she’d called. I KNEW I should leave it but I was weak. Of course she wanted to meet. I felt awful, I didn’t want to go but didn’t know how to say no either so I agreed and yesterday, no surprise, she bailed yet again. I haven’t answered her text with her lame reasons for bailing, and my question is what to do now? I am hesitant to just completely block her and not say why bc that feels like ghosting at the same time I know whatever I say, I have no control of how it lands, or what she might tell the others in our group. I guess the first option is the best? I think she’s using me for a hit of whatever, just to see if I’m still here? And it feels bad and at this point I just want her to leave me the f alone. Complicating things is I am married to a fabulous man and not out as bi to anyone irl other than him and my 2 closest friends. It feels really bad to be having these feelings with such a great partner. I do have a super supportive online community and I am 100 days sober, so getting tons of awesome support there. Anyway, I guess I just needed to vent.
You are standing at a crossroad. What you do behind your “fabulous” and “great” partner’s back matters.
Why is it more rude to “ghost” her than it is to emotionally check out on the person to whom you made legal commitments? Not only that, she is flaky so do you REALLY believe it will make a difference? She bails on people despite agreeing to see them. Feel free to block her, your boss, former drinking buddies, anyone who pulls you down or backwards from your goals.
“didn’t know how to say no either”
Yes, you do. To whom do you owe the most honesty?
100 days of sobriety is a great start. Congratulations! Now go ahead and restart the clock on not responding to your LO. You have more than enough on your plate without the complications of undermining your marriage.
Oof. You’re right. This was exactly what I needed to hear. And I don’t know why I’m worried about ghosting. May have a little to do with wanting to have the last word? I have a habit of retreating instead of saying why I’m upset. But in this case I’m sure it’s better to leave it. Thanks for responding.
@Liz,
Totally get ‘wanting to have the last word.’
But I have found it very helpful to let my LO have the last word before I went NC, because it eliminated my need for a response to whatever my ‘last word’ had been. Which I think most of us know is such a painful feeling – when the message thread ends with our message and a long silence from LO.
Also for my part – I had to face the fact that my LO would sometimes leave our online conversations mid-flow only to randomly pick back up a week or two later… which is WTF?
…@Lee makes the point much better though.
But yeah. ‘Needing to have the last word’ is one of my limerent traps – even with a blatantly flakey LO (who as you suggest about your LO is probably only present for their own gratification when they want attention and you’re a reliable source when their own romantic lives are going through a quiet patch).
Don’t feel bad for giving in to LO, those kind of things tend to happen. As long as it’s a temporary setback and you can keep on working on the long term, a little slip here and there is to be expected.
I also personally come from dealing with a very shaky LO in regards of comunications, and, in my case, focusing on their lack of respect in their behavior has worked a lot in making me feel empowered about keeping NC and not giving in contacting them, so it may work on you too. I mean, if you are so unimportant to her that she doesn’t care about cancelling plans with you at the last minute on a regular basis, why should you have to be the one pulling the cart of the relationship? Ghosting and blocking is always something very rude to do, so I get that you feel bad for doing it, but in your case I can see how even in a non-limerence context someone can grow very tired of having to deal with your LO antics. If you want to avoid as much drama as possible maybe try to ignore her and give non-committal answers to her meeting plans and let the relationship slowly die. If she keeps insisting, well, I don’t see any other way besides blocking or ghosting her.
Thanks this helps. I think I do need to block so I’m not tempted to respond. Seems like the safest way. Appreciate your response.
A deep and heavy sadness set back in today, after 10 days being absent. Seems to have blown through the prozac defences. Sitting here again with a few fucking twigs in my hand, waiting for the next goddamn wave to come crashing over my head. Limerence sucks. Better to guard yourself against falling in love, folks. Nip it in the bud, especially if it is the variety that is obviously unlikely to work from the get-go. Who needs that shit, really. LO just goes on happily with her life, while I sit here a sweaty, tormented soul, castigating my every move. I carry on with NC, like a prisoner on death row carries on eating.
Sorry, that was a poor analogy. There are often reprieves for death row inmates. Such is the loose state of my mind today.
A little message from little old me who was once stuck in a limerence hole which was so deep in thought I would never pull myself out.
Well, it’s true, I can say I’m pretty much over my LO. He sent a message a few weeks back which I was pondering what to reply (if would). Life got in the way until only today I found the message and realised I forgot to reply. It just didn’t interest me and slipped my mind.
Please stay NC if you can. I feel so content and happy. I honestly go about my life with such joy becuase I am no longer a prisoner inside my own mind. It feels like my limerent self was a completely different person and that who I am today is who I really am. The thought of going back to the lows of limerence haunt me some what. I still see glimmers in people but thats fine. It’s kind of funny now when I notice it happen.
This is so great Rachel! I remember you writing about your struggles not so long ago. It gives hope to read about recoveries! Awesome!
So so happy for you.
Seems like you’re not only on the other side but you learned and developed.
Hurray for the one who made it!
We hopefully will all follow in your footsteps Rachel.
🦾💥
That is wonderful to hear Rachel…..love the forgetting to respond. Who would have believed that was possible a few months ago. Your post is very inspiring.
Not sure where to put this, so I’ll just write it at the end here….I managed to go nine whole days without sending LO a message, but tonight I relapsed and messaged him….now I feel so sad…..I have been following him on Facebook, but managed to go this long without sending a message…darn, now I have to start all over again….sigh.
Don’t feel sad Maureen! No contact takes often takes a few relapses before it sticks. You will go for longer next time. Congrats on starting!
Yeah, agree with Jaideux here. Managing to stick to NC for a whole week in your first attempt is actually pretty good, so congrats!
9 days is like 9 years in limerence years! So be proud as fudge Maureen. Don’t be hard on yourself, you are fighting against nature forces so powerful, but you are winning!
I’ll add to the chorus of support, Maureen!
One thing to bear in mind: next time you feel the temptation to contact LO, remember how you feel right now. Relapses do not give us the relief we hope for – they usually make us feel worse in the long run – so try and really anchor that knowledge in your mind so you can bolster your resistance next time.
Thank you Dr L. and everyone, for the encouraging words…..I think I’m sad more because LO let me know that he and his SO will be staying permanently in OZ, seeing that there’s no work in the tourism business in Europe. So they are putting down roots, figuratively and literally….(he sent me pics of the garden that they’re putting in) which I can certainly understand, and I wish them well….but it kind of dims the chances of ever seeing him again, although I’m not sure I would want to, given what happened the last time around….sad as well that I broke the NC , but I will try again….and see if I can go longer this time…of course I guess I am cheating, seeing that I still follow him on social media….but baby steps I guess may work…..Rachael, that’s great that you are doing so well, you are an inspiration to us all x
Thank you Dr. L for the reminder to resist the temptation to make contact. I can completely understand how this would be a major setback especially if recovery was goin going well. I appreciated Mia’s advice to not get my hopes up that I’ve found a solution to limerence or letting go of LO, and someone else suggested small goals for NC such as 1-3 days which is exactly where I’m having to start. Maureen we can start again and we will survive just as we did before. I’m so sorry it hurts.
I’ve been stalking this blog and comments for months. You have all kept me sane in the midst of insanity! I never experienced limerence until a year ago. I was/am the LO for a man I work with. He pursued me like I have never been pursued by any man. Love bombing at it’s finest on every level. I In turn became limerent for him. I stumbled on this blog trying to figure out what the heck had happened to me! Such obsession! It’s settled down for both of us, but we see each other and or text almost daily. It’s never been physical but we have been flirting with that recently. I left my SO for reasons unrelated to LO. However, LO made me feel seen, beautiful and wanted more than my SO has ever done. I became limerent for LO 2 right after I left SO. An old friend I’ve known for a very long time. I’m not limerent for him anymore and have little contact although we are still friends and text once in awhile. It was physical with him. I’m terrified that this will always be my life! I don’t know how to let go of LO 1. I know I will have to at some point. He is much younger and married. I also have no desire to be in a romantic relationship with him. I don’t understand myself in this whole thing. It’s not my character and yet it must be. I have no intention of giving him up at this point. I thought LO 2, being an alpha would enable me to give LO 1 up. That thinking isn’t even rational! In my delusional mind LO 2 was more powerful than LO 1. How come I don’t think I’m powerful enough! UGH! Why I can’t I bethis way with my SO??? I don’t think LO 1 even knows about limerence. Indon’t want this to be my life! Due to the nature of our jobs I can’t go NC with him. I feel like I’ve lost my mind! I’m in counseling but my counselor doesn’t understand this. So, I guess this is my way of introducing myself and my LE’s. So far only 2 and thats 2 to many. I want off this roller coaster! I can’t tell you how much I appreciate all of you. You are raw and vulnerable and honest and funny. You have helped me more than you will ever know.
Not a fan, your all over the place irrational mind is so relatable.
What helped me a lot is work on my self asteem, the book the 6 pillars of self asteem is my Bible. It has practical exercises, and it knocked LO from his pedestal, (just recently)
(” Yes I think you are amazing but so am I “) and I journal like a maniac. I even kept 2 journals at one point. I wrote everything down, everything I felt . I think limerence has a link with unexpressed emotions so I let everything be there.
Well I’m not even sure you wanted advise but here we are 😀
If we can do anything for you just let us know
Welcome to the club!
There’s so many good posts/articles on this site… so there’ll be plenty of stuff (as I’m sure you’ve seen) for all flavours of the craziness.
Tbh, when you think about the feelings for an LO, are they REALLY the sort of feelings that would work with an SO? I mean everybody is different, but this chaotic intensity that is so familiar to many limerent experiences often isn’t the best foundation for a fully rounded relationship.
For example – you ask why you feel powerless. Feeling powerless can be lots of things, but it’s not the frame of mind to enter an intimate relationship with, is It? Though it can certainly serve its purposes in other types of relationship…
Thomas,
What a club to find yourself in! It is nice to read perspectives from men also. Thank you for sharing. You’re right on the intensity. There is no well rounded in this and it wouldn’t work with my SO. I don’t think this works with anyone other than LO. Not that work is the right term, but you get it since you live it. 🙃 I’m trying to work on my feeling powerless. It’s amazing to me how this one area affects everything else. It’s better than it was, I just want normal back, whatever that is. Thank you!
My word.. I’ve been stalking this blog..
Awww you’re in … lol! Well I am sure you’ll find some post that will help you & good luck.
I do agree with What you said all the raw , vulnerable & honest funny side to limerence mind.
It’s the way we are made & we are working on change.Hopefully you’ll find the insights & help .Always keep your sense of humour, You’re funny.
Lazybones,
Love the name! Thank you so much. We are in this together and what a resource! I am in! Oh gosh!
Bring it! I’m ordering that book. I used to journal daily. Seems like with all the chaos I stopped. I will journal and hope it helps me. Thank you Mia!
Chicster, yes we must simply resolve to to do better next time….it may take me a while though, I have already relapsed after 1 day, it was just to wish LO’s fiancé a happy birthday, but a relapse never the less……sigh
Same here. The confusion begs for relief but alas none to be found by making contact.
‘The confusion begs for relief but alas none to be found by making contact.’
I need that on a mug! 😀
I just heard this again, and it got me thinking of this talk of limerent entitlement:
PWR BTTM: Answer my text
https://youtu.be/FnGEtfHX3D8
😀
Yep Thomas that would be accurate haha. I would like to be the one to practice not answering! If there was a next time with this LO which I doubt.
Ha! Yes Chicster…
Awful though isn’t it… I think sometimes I’d text like ‘Hey, how are you?’ Then spend hours becoming increasingly irritated, distracted, sad or all three.
My most vivid memory was going to see a band I really like(like one of my faves) with my SO at the time and friends and being completely mentally absent because I was ‘owed’ a text.
That’s all I remember of that night, and I had to hold my tongue and keep civil because I was so angry and annoyed. I smiled through it.
Weirdly writing that down I realise how utterly sad that is… the potential of a memorably brilliant night completely sullied because LO hadn’t told me how he was doing.
I never want to do that again.
Oh Thomas I feel for you. I know exactly what you mean…a return text, (or in my case a return message, I don’t text), a simple ‘like’ on a post, or even knowing that a post has been ‘seen’ can change my mood for the whole day….it gives me some kind of warped validation that LO knows that I exist…..of course I ignore the fact that he ‘likes’ or messages so many other people as well………I managed to go 9 days again, without finding a flimsy excuse to send a message, but relapsed tonight because I put ‘happy birthday’ to my SO on social media, and LO messaged me to say ‘Please tell hubby I said happy birthday’. Of course i just had to reply. so there I go once again, breaking my no contact pledge…….sigh
9 days is great work though Maureen! Make it 10+ this time and you’re moving on the right direction…
Or have you attempted to get into a conversation?
It’s blimmin’ hard! My LO really seems to have got the message- I.e. he hasn’t messaged me and it’ll be 3 weeks NC tomorrow.
Though last night felt a real pit in my stomach as his face kept popping into my mind as I attempted to sleep, leaving me feeling sad. Sleep didn’t come easy and I’ve woken early, grumpy. If he’d texted last night I’m sure I’d have been a fallen man!
Good luck!
Of course as we know its not the text we crave its the hormones.
And not getting the fix, … nothing , literary nothing could make me happy at that moment. I could have won a billion dollars and still be upset. Vice versa also, when LO reached out, my house could burn down and I would stand next to it smiling.
Its so crazy the force of hormones.
Dont be hard on yourself Maureen, of course you answered, it would even be a little weird when you would not answer. ( althou you have the right dont get me wrong) I think you not reaching out again is what you want?
@ Mia,
Or if my house burned down I’d probably think – well this is a good enough reason to text LO!
‘Dear LO, my house just burned down. Anyways, how are you?’
Or Thomas:
“I won a billion dollar, will you fu*king finally love me goddamned, how are you? “
I don’t either! Like waiting for water to boil…
Oh, ha,ha,ha…Mia that is too funny, but so true….a billion dollars may even blur the 32-76 year age gap, at least for a little while, ha,ha,ha…
Yes, Thomas, this time I’ll try for 10 days or maybe more if I can’t come up with a flimsy excuse to message LO…(I am kind of cheating because I still follow him my every waking minute almost on social media)…..I did try to keep the lines of communication open by asking a question when I replied, but of course didn’t get an answer…these 30 somethings, don’t seem to have the same ‘etiquette’ as us oldies do, when it comes to responding to correspondence…..just a different generation I guess (sorry 30 year olds)…but of course why would he respond to an old lady, unless I really was his gramma….he did send pics of his new garden though….when I asked how it was doing. Big hugs to everyone (((((HUGS)))))) I feel so badly that I can’t give anyone sage advice, isn’t that what the elderly are supposed to do….not end up in this absurd limerence boat……thank goodness for this site…
I have reached that point in recovery where you’ve gone from lingering uncertainty to flat-out disbelief that you were played. Surely this has come around as a result of NC on the part of LO but also from a convo I had with my SO about how compliments from other men affect me so much that it scares me. My SO replied that while everyone likes compliments, men have an agenda when directed toward women they know are married. I asked him to explain, and he let me in to the mind of a man given to playing the game.
I have been such a bloody idiot. I got played in the biggest display of duplicitous love-bombing I’ve seen since my first narcissistic LO. Now instead of feeling hurt I just feel embarrassed. Thankfully I’ve been catapulted, at least for now, into self-directed, blessed NC and increased affection for my dear SO who is the one actually here fighting for me. Until the next roller coaster I am yours—Chicster.
Chicster,
I am single, and all of my LO’s have been too, but that doesn’t mean that I wasn’t played by them. Something about me made them determined to love bomb me into limerence, they must sense that they would get the sweet sweet reward of abject devotion once I am hooked, and with no real strings attached. It embarrasses and INFURIATES me to think about it, the times I tried to escape, the disclosure in hopes of either reciprocation or their distancing to “help” me get over them, but no…they double downed on keeping me captive if I ever tried to escape. There were a couple of honorable ones that let me escape, but the fact that they love bombed me in the beginning with no real intent of follow through makes them actually a little less than honorable, really.
I am determined that never, ever, ever will I get on that roller coaster again. I am going to demand transparency and accountability and if things look ambiguous after a reasonable amount of time I am running for my life. I may be vulnerable but I am no longer stupid.
Amen to that.
There’s a show on Netflix called “My Crazy Ex-Girlfriend” and in one episode (Season Three I think), the heroine sings a song, blaming the male love interest Josh (her LO?) for everything she’s done over the course of their interaction. She admits he asked her for nothing. She’s the one chasing him. But still he made her dance like a puppet because of a smile here and a wink there. Has a painful ring of truth about it – this is a pretty good albeit comic depiction of fictional limerence.
Jaideux thank you so much for sharing. It helps tremendously to know that I’m not alone. I feel infuriated and embarrassed as well that I have allowed this to happen many times in my life. I tried reading about traits that make one vulnerable to being played so I could learn from this. Of course insecurity and neediness are a recurring theme. Clearly I need to focus my energies on healing those issues over resenting LO, the player. LO finally allowed me to escape after initially insisting that I wasn’t being played. I am dumbfounded that I can believe lies so well and that, as Sammy said, believing the lies turned me into a puppet. I just wanted them to be true so much.
I relate to this so deeply. Particularly the sense of entitlement I feel when my LO fails to respond in the timeframe I think is acceptable. My story is long and I’ve never shared it publicly but I will here. This site has been a source of great comfort. I’ve long thought that these feelings were a sign of something dark and scary and unique…obviously not! Well, it can be scary at times but i don’t feel as alone reading the posts and comments here. In fact the concept of limerance has provided a framework and a language for me to explain this mess of emotions. I’m addicted to a person…and I have been for a very long time.
I am not sure when my limerance actually began. MY LO and I were dating non-exclusively for almost a year. Through that time, I became increasingly panicked and anxious about the uncertainty that seemed to define the entire relationship. The highs were so high and the lows were appalling. Every night we weren’t together I was sure he was with someone else and it broke me (he had every right to be). I expressed my deeper feelings for him a couple of times and was met with ‘I like you but am not in a place to have a relationship right now’. He was emotionally unavailable – having broken up with an ex that year. He broke it off with me eventually and I was heartbroken and went completely no contact. It felt powerful and I started to gain some perspective and control..but the three months later, after running into each other, we started a relationship again.
Whilst I initially thought that equality had been corrected by the vows of commitment, the labels and the reduced stress about ‘uncertainty’…what really seemed to be happening was mutual limerance. Both of us would get upset about communication…replying to texts as soon as they were read was mandatory. As the relationship wore on I was highly anxious….always convinced that my affection for him far out weighed his…that he would leave me. I absolutely adored him but he infuriated me. I developed an incredibly anxious attachment style and he a very avoidant one. We failed to meet each others needs…well I felt that I was constantly trying to please him and I felt deprioritised all the time. Very people pleasing behaviour that I have since started therapy to address. We broke up after about a year.
We went 6 months or so without contact and it killed me. I was depressed and despite being no contact, he was never far from my thoughts…i thought of him every day.
Then we rekindled a friendship…my limerance was reignited and now I am stuck (one year on) in a terrible purgatory of my own making. It started with almost constant contact. Every day. I don’t think there has been a day in that entire year that he has not texted me. It has been incessant. But it has also been heartbreaking. Every mention of him dating someone new feels like a purposeful stab. No one has worked out (yet) but the fact that he is trying to find someone new is awful. And yet, I hang in there, unable to set him loose. I helped him move, he brings me gifts and cakes, we pick each other up from the airport, he borrows my car, I am friends with his friends still…I do things for him in the hope that it will rekindle his initial feelings for me. I almost want him to choose me because no one else worked out. It’s awful. and it has not worked.
Now I am suffering the sourness of limerance gone bad. Hours that go by between texts feel very deliberate (a pattern set up in our previous relationship). I feel resentful that he has emerged from our relationship seemingly unscathed and unconcerned about me. I am trying to pull away (as suggested on this site) and am downcast when it’s met by mutual distance from him. And now even the texting is starting to wane. And it terrifies me. I know going no contact is the right thing to do but I’m terrified of getting the affirmation that people here have talked about – I’m scared that I’ll be right – I’m scared that the voice inside my head that says ‘he does not care about you and he never ever wants to be with you again’ will be confirmed by his cold acceptance of no contact.
Hey Over it,
Welcome! You’re aware that your feelings are not completely unique! There’s a lot of people who visit this site who will recognise so much of what you are talking about.
NC sounds sensible. I’m now a few weeks in and yes, the fact that LO hasn’t been begging to stay in touch and instead has simply gone off and been getting on with things is sometimes heartbreaking. I myself (coincidentally!) Had a whole thing yesterday ruminating about LO finding nobody and settling for me in the end. How lucky I would be to be last man standing!
LEs are tough. There are moments of intense pleasure and stimulation and also commonly agonising pain and insecurity when they involve unavailable, unwilling, or simply incompatible LOs.
Lots to read on here as you can see. Take a look around.
Ouch! I actually winced a bit reading your post. Just thinking havingto see LO bounce from date to date while still having feelings for them and having to keep the charade of friendship… that’s a really painful story, Over.
Agree with Thomas in that NC it’s probably what will go better for you mentally. And yeah, it hurts a lot to realize how little we matter to them (two months now since we last spoke and my last message to her is still marked as unread), so maybe try to reframe the situation and think of it as a chance to win your life back. In fact, I’d even say that him going progressively cold is a blessing in disguise: that way you can quietly go into NC and avoid much drama.
Here’s hoping that you can pull it! And welcome!
Over it, thank you for sharing your story here. It has been a lifeline for me to return here and to turn to the compassionate training of Dr. L in his course. I’m so glad you found this site.
LEs ARE tough, as Thomas said. I have known how little I mattered for about a month, and while I’m having moments of freedom now that I’ve implemented some of the steps I’ve learned from Dr. L and others here, I do believe this is one of the hardest things I’ve ever been through. Yesterday I journaled something that helped. “When I was 43, I had my heart broken.” Reading it in black and white and helped with realizing what has happened, taking responsibility for my part in it (my positive and open response to LO) and the beginning of acceptance of reality (it’s over.)
It sucks to come to this realization! And for me, it is too incredibly painful to even think about LO being in a relationship or being anything, frankly, without me. This is all fantasy of course and terribly inappropriate since I have an SO. But because I am so embarrassed for being hung up on LO, and I identify so much with what Jaideux said, “…the fact that they love bombed me in the beginning with no real intent of follow through makes them actually a little less than honorable, really,” I HAVE to block LOs contacts because the silence I hear while meanwhile he has every opportunity to contact me is deafening. I will never have the closure I think I deserve out of my own limerent entitlement, but I don’t think I want to know the honest answers to some of my questions any way since deep down I know he didn’t care.
Hang in there. Your broken heart is seen and heard.
@Chicster and Jaideux and Over it. I agree love-bombing is a confusing trait some people have. Why do they do that? Do they love-bomb everyone? Is it their modus operandi at the start of every friendship? Do they see it as part and parcel of being a good person? Two out of three LOs love-bombed me, and I fell for it. Big gestures as easy to confuse with authentic emotion and/or serious dating intentions.
The chemical cocktail of limerence obviously (to my mind) pressures the sufferer to prioritize pro-mating behaviour (with LO) over all other activities, and this is understandable. Without that extra pressure, I guess mating (and reproduction) may not occur at all, may occur at a later age, or may occur with someone who is not chosen at random (less chance of genetic diversity in offspring). Still, it’s horrible to experience all that “pressure” inside one’s head and not be sure what’s going on at the time.
Sorry for sounding like Mr Spock. The biological “logic” behind “feelings that at first glance seem completely illogical” fascinates me. It fascinates me limerence is weirdly rational i.e. it promotes mating with a preferred mate. The only trouble is “preferred mate” may find whole exercise tiresome after a while, or may want to bond with somebody else.
Back here this evening,
‘They don’t owe you anything, you haven’t been cheated, you’ve made the decision to try and wrestle the situation into one in which they behave in the way that you want. That way lies madness.’
Very helpful words when trying to keep a lid on it..!
Every time my LO was ambiguous (we spoke mainly on whatsapp audio or texts) about how he felt or meeting again, I would unleash in anxiety , verbally insultinh him and asking him to be clear. And he came back talking to me every time even after these events… Even meeting and kissing . It did lead me to making up a fake profile to stalk him on a dating app and finlly this fake profile began harrasing him.
Just cause it was a manipulative technique. When he felt harassed by the fake profile, he would come to me asking for help and I had my fix that way. Wow… I am out of it now, 6 days NC still anxious and in therapy but getting slowly better, recovering my life. That anger …. I am still in shock
The point about entitlement really hit home. My LO has left me on delivered for days. It was a conversation he started. I just about went mad. No matter that if it were anyone else, I wouldn’t have been bothered that they didn’t continue a casual, trivial conversation. But with him all I constantly think of is “WHY didn’t he reply back? How DARE he?”
Limerence truly does a number on your brain. I’m glad I found this website.
s,
This is definitely one of the most frustrating parts of limerence for me as well. I know where I stand, what the outcome will be and why it is happening but I cannot stop the obsessive picking apart of every convo. The anxiety of waiting for a return text or that chance to bump into them for a conversation.
These feeling just come from inside me.
I could not handle texting with my LO and she reciprocated and initiated a lot of chit chat texting with me. But ultimately texting is such a poor form of communication, and so addicting, that I became neurotic about it. Checking for texts, planning out my texts, trying to read into the meaning of this comment or that. I was always more conversational than my LO so texting was always a disappointment with her. She just never reciprocated any meaningful conversation with me, she tended to text thought fragments a lot.
Ultimately our texting has ended which has stabilized my mood quite a bit, but we still enjoy a very warm and friendly in person relationship. Just for point of reference, my LO seems to have some level of mutual attraction to me but is not limerent.
The hot/cold stuff is a beating as well. We spent a lot of Friday together joking and playing with each other. She then set up another outing to drink texting me a bunch asking my opinion on where to go and who to invite. I sat next to her, we talked and laughed for three hours. I met her sister. Hugged and went home. Today, I tried to joke but only got a weak “hey”. Almost no conversation. No, “I had fun”. Only that she wished she had a chance to talk with someone else more and that she has a “friend crush” on this woman. Ruined my day. Sometimes I’m sure she cares about me others I just think I am some random co-worker. I’m ready for this to be over because I know I’m not seeing anything clearly and it just ends up hurting.