Berty emailed me with a thought-provoking question about limerence and pair-bonding:
I’m still puzzling at the pair-bonding as the only source. It seems too narrow – especially for those of us well beyond reproductive years. (The thought of pair-bonding with my LO just makes me feel nauseous). Can it also be just needing/hoping for validation (as you mentioned somewhere) from a highly regarded person? Someone regarded as high status, as happens in other primate societies? Surely the need to belong in a society goes back a long way. If being ostracized, cast out from the tribe, is the worst that can happen to us because we can’t survive on our own, then the attentions of the (perceived) highest ranking tribe member ensures our security within the fold of the tribe. Those attentions need not be exclusive (thinking of bonobos). Or the deep-seated need for union? The union with our higher selves or with a higher entity that spiritual pursuits ultimately should provide? (Just co-opted by lower biological drives?)
It’s a great question, and it can be answered from a few angles.
Why do we feel desire for certain people?
I do focus many of my posts on limerence being a very effective force for pair-bonding. Becoming utterly obsessed with a potential mate to the exclusion of all other people and concerns is a brilliant way (mathematically) of increasing the chance of making a baby and seeing them through their most vulnerable years. But it’s perfectly possible to think of other reasons why we might become infatuated to the point of limerence with another type of person.
The high status/highly regarded person is a good example. So is the mentor, or role model. So is the object of lust that you have no intention in a million years of trying to form a stable relationship with. In theory you could pair-bond with these people, but in practical terms it’s not a good prospect.
Why we become limerent for particular people is a very rich topic for speculation. We’ve covered some ideas before but there is loads of scope to riff on these old themes and improvise some new directions.

Attachment theory has a lot to contribute, and what’s happening in your life at the moment. Your romantic history; what is missing from your emotional landscape; the choices you are making about how you behave. Bluntly, it’s likely to be as varied as human experience.
What is it that is rewarding about an LO?
Similarly broad is the notion of what you are getting out of the limerent experience. You may be seeking emotional or sexual validation, or seeking comfort, or seeking excitement, or seeking romance, or seeking a sense of the transcendent. The emotional urge that is making you want to connect, to get intimate, to somehow get subsumed into your LO’s life – that will also vary from limerent to limerent.
A mentor may make you feel valued and emotionally validated. A high status person may make you feel secure, safe, and freed from a desperate competition for resources. These may be the biggest pain points in your life and what your subconscious is craving relief from. Or, of course, you may want that romantic connection, that special intimacy, that sexual union.
Ultimately, whatever your particular LO archetype is, the neuroscientific basis will be much the same. You feel a glimmer as your subconscious spots the LO pattern, you get a surge of dopamine if they give you a hint of reciprocation, and you seek more. High on dopamine-induced euphoria, you reinforce the reward-seeking behaviour, and – if you’re unlucky – uncertainty and barriers send the system into overdrive, and you run heedless into the crushing grip of limerence.

Is limerence always about reproduction?
This is where ideas get a bit slippery. Yes and no, would be my helpful answer. I think a useful way of looking at this is to ask the parallel question: is sex always about reproduction?
The answer, of course, is no. Contraception means recreational sex is possible. There are lots of positions and partner combinations that could not possibly result in conception. We masturbate. We have sex at non-fertile periods of the menstrual cycle, we have sex after the menopause, and with people we would never want to form a lasting bond with. Animals do all this too, so it’s not some unique quirk of us libidinously creative humans.
The basic point is that the motive drive for a behaviour is often decoupled from the outcome of the behaviour. Lust is very effective at causing conception, but it’s sort of an incidental consequence of the actual desire to… bump sexy bits. It’s perfectly possible to trigger lust by stimuli that will not lead to conception. Lust, after all, can even be triggered by a picture, or words on a page.
So, by the same reasoning, limerence can make us want to get emotionally close to someone just because it feels good, even if we don’t want to enter a monogamous relationship with them. It’s sort of a “person-lust” in the sense of making us crave the company, emotional closeness and special connection with an LO.

That would be a very effective strategy for pair-bonding if the limerent and LO were young, fertile and sexually attracted to each other. But the neural circuits that start the limerence wagon rolling don’t know that in advance. They just recognise a certain pattern of feedback (LO’s behaviour, appearance, scent, mannerisms etc.), initiate reward signalling, and couple it to neurotransmitter and hormone storm that blisses you out.
It’s perfectly feasible that this process of infatuation can be caused by an LO that is completely implausible as a potential mate. Just as lust can be caused by someone you would never want to have a baby with. The drives can lead very effectively to the “evolutionarily useful” outcome under the right circumstances, but are actually independent of the outcome.
In summary, then, it’s definitely the case that we can become limerent for people that we don’t want to mate with, that it makes no sense for us to attempt to mate with, but who nevertheless trigger our “desperate desire for closeness” circuitry.
People are, after all, weird and marvellous.
“”What is it that is rewarding about an LO?””
I’ve often asked myself this question over the past 18 months. Put simply, for me, it’s validation.
Validation that I am not invisible as I hurtle towards my 50’s, that someone out there other than my SO finds me interesting enough to talk to and actually listens to what I have to say.
My LO is a very intent listener, when I talk to him I have full eye contact from him and 100% of his undivided attention. Some might find this laser focus unnerving but I find it flattering, it relaxes me and I don’t feel the need to hurry my conversation. The fact that LO will mention something I’ve said days or weeks later furher reiterates that he was listening and actually heard what I said. That’s a pretty powerful aphrodisiac for me.
Based on this would I consider sleeping with him if I had the chance? No, that’s what fantasies are for, and I prefer to keep them in my head.
I think my LE was about validation too. I was approaching 40 feeling old and tired, she was nearly half my age, beautiful, sexy, funny and seemingly into me. We built up a connection and I wanted her, but it was never about running off together. The fantasy tended to involve her telling me she wanted me, maybe a night in a hotel or a weekend away. But I could never picture us together, as a couple. That part of the fantasy was always very blurry… the consequences part.
And logically of course we were so different, not just age but intellect, interests etc. We weren’t compatible in that sense. There’s no way I could have hung out with her friends, and she wouldn’t have wanted to be step mother to my kids. So what was the point of it all? Validation I guess, of me as a man, still being attractive, worthy.
Validation. I reluctantly, but completely agree with Vincent. My LO is 20 years younger, as are several others in the group I’m involved with. I take it as a compliment that many dont realize how much older I am. However, I’m always aware of the differences, and don’t attempt to be the stereotypical “that guy” who tries too hard.
Vincent
You always summarise things to the point with good meaning.
My situation was she is 3 years younger but as bored with SO I enjoyed the now and then reciprocated behaviour. I too couldn’t imagine a life with her. When I first met her 7 years ago I found her a handful.
But I think a mixture of vicinity attraction, boredom at home, the excitement of arranging new date venues to take LO too, LO not stopping my behaviour/reminding me I have a wife coupled with getting validation meant the Limerence grew.
However I recently found out I have been in a triangle. I have LE for her. She is in an EA with another colleague before my time. That colleague is married. What a triangle.
But using this to move on and wake up. Made me jealous at first as I wanted to be thet guy but I know it’s not wise.
Like Vincent the fantasy was for her to like me and tell me and us having a few encounters together. But that has to stop now
“Validation I guess, of me as a man, still being attractive, worthy.”
Exactly!! Same, LO made me feel attractive too. It gave me a big confidence boost that a very attractive man, a few years younger than me found me interesting. The feelings were further enhanced and validated by the fact that only I received his “special” attention out of a very large group of women, some much younger than me. It was some power trip that I greedily fed off.
But as I recently learnt. Might not have just been you.
Ok this electronic world conversations are not so in our faces.
Emotional/physical validation, novelty, connection, wish fulfillment, sexual fantasy fuel, fun, someone on whom to project my ideas of what’s “missing” in my life. Absolutely. My LE’s definitely been all those things for me. What I have been HOPING it would also be–a catalyst for improving my marriage, a direction in which to expand my worldview, an opportunity to grow as a person, –has not quite happened. Yet. But I still hope.
My husband may have been wanting all of these things too, but the person he chose to become attached to barely knew or spoke to him. Someone he passed by or worked with less than five minutes a day became ‘always on his side’, ‘respected him’, and ‘would be interested in him, if only he were single’. In his mind, he is rescuing her from an abusive ex-husband, winning the lottery so they can live together, and having wild sex. In reality, she only ever exchanged pleasantries with him. He didn’t view her as overly attractive or bubbling with personality, just ‘nice’ and easy to get along with’. Meanwhile, I know nothing about this person, until she becomes engaged, and then he loses it. Mood swings, outbursts about minor things, and then finally, disclosure. First he said he thought he loved her, then he said he had just been attracted to, now he admits he didn’t know her, and a midlife crisis drew her to him. In any way, she barely knew his name. I am blown away. We have been married nearly thirty years, and this is the first time, he has ever acted out of line. Covering his tracks about al this is the first time, he has ever lied to me. I don’t know what to do.
Is it unlikely to be a coincidence that the onset of the LE was around exactly the same time my daughter dramatically reduced her feeds?
Oxytocin all over the place is what I’m thinking!!
Also work was the only time I had away from her, so it was liberating not to be Mum for a few hours.
Throw into the mix LOs situation pretty much mirroring mine, and I can see why it happened!
Not by any means saying it was right, but at least it’s acted as a wake up call to get marriage back on track.
Mmm what an interesting article. My LO definitely tapped some deeply ingrained insecurity. Myself as a (relatively) mature age student back to study, before I’d even met LO the first I knew about her was a friend in our class pointing her out as, “Kind of a genius.” A few weeks later she abruptly sat down next to me and started conversation. A genius! Talking to me? Laughing at my jokes..?
I was – and remain – in a committed relationship. The LE tested us, but we worked through it, in large parts thanks to this site. After recognising limerence for what it was, I went NC, so in the end never really spent enough time with LO to know if she was the “genius” I imagined her as being. But simply the label – the idea of that – was enough to spur all manner of limerent obsessions…
Validation indeed.
It can’t be about pair bonding only. I had my first LE episode when I was probably six or seven. I didn’t know anything about pair bonding, at least on a concious level and of course I was to little to know for what purpose the pair bonding is taking place.
Landry, what you said sounds exactly like what may have happened to me….I’m sure at 76 years old, with a LO of just 31, pair bonding would be the last thing on my mind…….this beautiful boy, of course is totally unavailable; from being half way around the world, to being engaged, to barely knowing that I exist, yet here it is, the strange phenomina of limerence has me totally confused….having an ill 80 year old LO, the things that you mentioned are also what I may be subconsciously seeking……I have found this site immensely helpful to get me through some of the really bad days, but I fear that I still have a long struggle ahead to become limerence free….thank you everyone on here for you ìnput and help, it is greatly appreciated……I will keep trying to move forward…..
That should read, ‘having an ill 80 year old SO…
It can hit any age Maureen, it makes you normal. The fact that you notice your LO and find him attractive means you are still alive. Unfortunately traumatic and stressful events quite commonly trigger LE, it really sucks.
Hope you are travelling ok with your SOs medical issues, it’s hard if you don’t have any external support.
Hi Lee-Anne, thank you for your reply……I do have family around, and they are ready and willing to help with SO, but not a soul knows what is going on in my mind….it’s such a lonely experience….thank goodness for this site and the understanding of the folk on here…..I’m trying to work my way through all the posts on each of the pages as I try to heal from this phenomena that has such a grip on my mind…..
Before I ride off into the sunset and stop commenting on this site (at least for a good while), I wanted to comment on this post (not because I am “cured” of limerence but because I don’t feel I have all that much to contribute at this point, because I am oversharing and wasting too much of my time, and I think obsessing over this site so much is actually making me think too much about limerence in general and my LO specifically). Dr. L, his content and this community are great though.
Pair bonding is a strange but relevant concept for me, possibly because my limerence is most definitely part of a deep midlife crisis where I feel like I only have a short time left as a relatively young man. I am also approaching “The Big 5-0” and that thought scares me (my mother died at 50 and my uncle didn’t even make it to that age, so I really believe my re-examination and re-evaluation of my life was part of a growing sense that life is too damn short and I should try to make the best of the time I have left — not that I’m planning on kicking the bucket anytime soon).
The concept of pair bonding is interesting to me for a couple of reasons: First of all, I recall that my LO made a strange comment to my brother in-law the night we met her, in which she told him she was unlikely to give him any kids. While it was cute, it seemed just a little presumptuous on her part given that they had just met. I actually think it was quite sad in retrospect given his later rejection of her. But this is more about me than him. More importantly, I have a major fantasy that involves getting my LO pregnant (consensually, of course and only if my marriage ended) and having a baby with her (utterly presumptuous and entirely lacking in any factual basis, I realize). Now, she is getting to an age (about five years younger than me) that is perhaps the end of her potential reproductive years, and I also wonder if there was some biological or medical reason why she said that to my BIL. But why is this fantasy so strong for me, especially at my age? Am I not too old to be a father? Is it just me thinking of it as being the last kick at the can? Obviously, I am already a father, although I would have liked to have had more than one child. Overall, I suppose limerence for me is connected with pair bonding, although not necessarily so.
Nature doesn’t really care if things are realistic or not does she.
Vl , good luck kicking the habit being on this site and limerence of course !
Good for you you made this decision thank you for (over) sharing and your support !
🍀
Very true Mia. Fantasies are so seldom rooted in reality! Thanks for your support and insight over the past few months as well.
While it’s always sad seeing regular commenters go, it’s good news if it means that they are on the way to recovering.
Yeah, I think that the whole having a child together it’s a normal instict in this limerence thing. I’m not a kid person, but I definitely had thoughts about “forming a family” with my LOs. So I think it happens to people of all ages.
Hope things end up working well for you, VI.
Thanks Benjamin. I hope me stepping away for a while is indicative of some level of recovery, but I am not sure. I think I am just developing better coping strategies as opposed to actually being in recovery (I see there being a difference between the two, but perhaps they are connected as well). I do think limerence is about caring about the person. It isn’t usually just about pure sexual attraction, but is more about a desire to form a bond with the LO. I read somewhere else that limerence never exists for more than one person at a time. I suppose that should tell us something as well.
“I have a major fantasy that involves getting my LO pregnant…”
It’s a way of ensuring some sort of contact for the next two decades. Even if the relationship didn’t work out and neither adult ever wanted to see the other again in their lifetime, one party or the other is likely to be connected and in ongoing contact in some manner.
Or maybe you want a do-over on being a parent?
I’ve been told that being a grandparent is less expensive and more fun – mostly.
My wife and I really wanted a second child, but it didn’t work out for us. For a lot of people, I think the desire to pass on one’s genes and raise a child together in a stable, loving family is a real draw. I do agree that having a child together also creates a permanent bond between two people that can never be broken. I have argued that with my wife, but her perspective is basically that I would be dead to her if we ever went our separate ways. Obviously, this thing with my LO is just a fantasy on so many levels. I also don’t really believe in having babies at 50 (even though it is much more easy biologically for a man) because it isn’t fair to do that to kids when their parents might not live to see them graduate from college.
Good luck VL – sorry to see you go, but I think we all have to step away from here at some point in our recovery (I did too), in order to stop thinking about LO.
I’m sure you’re onto something with the mid-life crisis, Dr L has written about the link between it and limerence before, and I put my LE down at least in part to hitting the “big 4 – 0”. But there were a cocktail of other factors, such as my marriage going stale, work stress, LO’s resemblance to my ex and of course her behaviour as well. She pursued me and turned my head – that was hard to resist for anyone.
But whatever it is, you won’t find a single reason for it. What I came to realise is that I just needed to settle on an explanation that I was happy with, and then get on with forgetting about her. I threw myself into other things – family, fitness, work, hobbies – anything I could to break the rumination habit. I purged my life of reminders, and (almost) every time I found myself typing her name into a search engine I caught myself, stood up and did something else.
Now i come back here for prevention. I don’t want to go back to those depths, but I know I’m at risk, and so it is important to remind myself of where the glimmer can lead. That and helping others. One of the most valuable things once i found out about limerence was hearing from people that had gone through the exact same thing and made it out the other side. Hopefully I can do the same for other people by sharing my experience. I’m sure you’ll be back doing the same too. Good luck!
“But whatever it is, you won’t find a single reason for it.”
Clip of the Day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnY8FOati1A
Ha! Utterly pointless — but I guess that’s the “point!”
Thanks Scharnhorst for all of your insight. We haven’t always agreed on everything, but your annoying habit of being right has given me a much needed kick in the backside several times and made me think about things in a different light! 🙂
Thanks Vincent. What is it about those milestone birthdays that make us re-examine and re-evaluate our lives? Personally, I didn’t have too difficult a time turning 40, but I did have a hard time turning 30 for some reason. 50 will be a doozy though! I also have a sense that I squandered my 40s. I don’t feel like my life progressed much at all during the decade between 40 and 50, and I have read up on the “happiness curve,” where our level of happiness is supposedly at our lowest in our late 40s. That certainly has been the case for me, and I am hoping things will get better at 50! Already, I am insisting on losing weight and a greater emphasis on fitness and exercise, career change, financial health and security and improvements to my social life, marriage (if possible) and family life.
I think I was doing better at avoiding limerent rumination three or four months ago, and I have started thinking about my LO much more often these days. I have again been allowing myself to get carried away with the fantasy, thinking I am unable to stop it anyway, so why not let it run its course? That needs to stop. I am not trying to stop my thoughts of her altogether because that is totally unrealistic and my mind would just rebel, but I need to really focus on purposeful living and getting my thinking cap on to solve some of the real problems that exist in my life. As you point out, I will probably be back here some day, but for now I am going to try stepping away for a bit.
Thanks everyone for your kind words and support. I am still going to stay plugged into the posts and comments at a much lower level, and I will likely comment again at some point in the future (hopefully with a positive update one way or another). Dr. L advocates for purposeful living, and for me, stepping away from this site and community (at least temporarily) is part of that. I still don’t know what will ultimately happen in my marriage and life, but the status quo isn’t working for me. My wife is again being syrupy-sweet, but she is still cracking the whip in making me complete projects and chores (even when I am supposed to be working and she does very little herself), and she also tries to stop me from going out with my friends or simply going out for a drive or a walk around the mall for a change of scenery. She and my daughter are also still at each others’ throats, and my wife still belittles my career change attempts and educational endeavours. All of those things are completely unacceptable for me. I have to get over my LO, but I still think there is a very faint chance we could be together some day if things don’t work out with my wife and I. But I can’t make that my primary motivation for anything. After all, I still love my wife and that has to mean there is something to build on — and my LO is just a fantasy. However, if things are ever going to work out with my wife, there will need to be some major changes around here and I just don’t think she is going to allow for me to make those changes. A midlife crisis is definitely a way to force people to re-examine their lives. No matter what happens, I am determined to come out of this a better and happier man. Take care everyone, and all the best with your recovery! I also wish the current and former spouses and partners of limerents peace and happiness. All the best!
All the best from me too, VL. Thanks for your many contributions, and good luck with striking your path to a purposeful future!
We’ll be here again any time you want to check back in.
Thanks Dr. L. This is an amazing site and community you have built here. I appreciate your posts and your kind and thoughtful words over the past few months, and I will definitely be back at some point. I am just stepping away for a while to see if that might help me in my recovery and allow me to focus on some aspects of my life that definitely require my full attention. Thanks again!
Good luck, VL! I’ve always enjoyed your posts. I understand what you’re talking about with this site. I feel myself understanding more deeply about why I am how I am… but at the same time I feel myself hoping people will shout out, “Matt!!! Can’t you see that your LO is desperate to be with you?!?!?” The site feeds the monster in my head at the same time I’m learning how to kill it.
Me too, Matt! I think I actually have a fantasy that my LO will find my comments, realize how much she means to me and start to feel the same way. But what I think might be more likely if she found my comments is that she would say something like, “VL, can you please stop commenting about me! We hardly know each other and it’s embarrassing for me. I’m not interested in you (and never would be) and you’re married (remember, I was interested in your brother in-law, NOT you).” The things our limerent brains do to us!
Like some other commenters here, I have experienced limerence prior to puberty, as a child. I experienced it for adults I adored when I was little — I can think of a couple in particular. As a child it registered as a combination of fascination and fear, and wanting to be loved by them. Therapists have had a field day figuring out what my mother must have done wrong to make me this way, but honestly, it feels like part of my temperament.
I think the “pair bonding” explanation is a big help in explaining WHY we’re limerent for a particular person. (What mating/dating boxes of yours do they tick?) However, I think a lot of other things get mixed up with the limerence e.g. a desire for a best friend, wanting acceptance from peers, a yearning for unconditional love, issues with parents, childhood attachment stuff, etc.
The really strange thing about limerence is it’s not about sex per se. It’s about attention from a particular person. It seems that attention alone (or encountering something in the environment reminiscent of the person) is what sends the limerent reward circuits into overdrive. This is probably what a non-limerent would find hard to understand i.e. why is attention from this one person so important when you could get, say, better attention from fifty other people?