Regular commenter Marcia raised an interesting question in the comments section from the last post, about being hesitant to try new *ahem* adventures.
I always wondered if it was my fear talking. Would I like to try that? Maybe I don’t have the backbone. Maybe I’m envious that other people do.
Thinking about romantic opportunities more broadly, I think this is a question a lot of limerents ask themselves at some point – most obviously, when they are committed to a long-term relationship, but become limerent for someone else.
The dignity-incinerating desire for LO destroys all our old certainties, all our old beliefs and principles. We start to doubt everything. Are we holding back because of moral imperatives or because of fear?
Spending time with LO can be a state of maddening internal tension – desperate to declare our feelings, but inhibited by some internal mental brake that stops us actually saying the words, reaching out to touch them, crossing the Rubicon.
What is that inner resistance? Is it our conscience? Is it fear of social consequences? Is it insecurity? Or – as Marcia wonders – is it simple cowardice? A failure to muster the courage to overcome cultural strictures and embrace adventure?
We may look at other people who live life in a more devil-may-care way, and wonder if timidity is our problem, rather than a guilty conscience.
The only way to reliably answer those questions for yourself is to develop the purposeful mindset needed to strip away the pretences and duplicity and rationalisations, and learn to see clearly.
Courage versus chutzpah
A first point to consider is what exactly courage means. The simple definition of courage is the willingness to do something that frightens you. That seems like an obviously good thing: the determination to overcome fear that is holding you back from doing what you know should be done.
But, there is a difference between that, and just having the audacity to take what you want when you want it.
For some people there can be an overlap. If you have a real fear of disappointing others, or saying no to unreasonable requests, then courage and assertiveness will go together. But, there is obviously a line somewhere between being more bold, and having the nerve to make unreasonable requests of other people.
Wishing you had the chutzpah to behave more audaciously is not the same as wishing you were more courageous. Bravery is admirable. Suiting yourself, consequences-be-damned, is not.
Admirable people
The difficulty with these internal battles is finding balance. We can usually tell the boundary cases OK – sociopathic self-indulgence and crippling shyness are obviously problematic – but where is the right spot in the grey area between?
Audacity can be compelling. People with passion, joie-de-vivre, and few emotional hang-ups can be wonderful company, wonderful people. But, if we’re honest, they can also be selfish, egotistic and narcissistic. Likewise, compassionate, sincere people with great integrity are admirable, but they can also be risk-averse, overcautious and, well, dull.
In a previous post, I related this dichotomy to the book Narcissus and Goldmund, in which Herman Hesse invites us to reflect on two lives – the selfish abandon of the artist versus the selfless duty of the monk.
One way to decide for yourself which life is better is to ask which people you personally admire. Try to think back to a period before you became limerent (and your judgement was scrambled), and identify the kind of person that impressed you with their character. The kind of person that you would feel proud and gratified to be compared to. That is a pretty good barometer for where your own moral foundations lie.
Another perspective on this is to look at the impact that admirable people have on those around them. Do people generally feel uplifted, happier and pleased to know them, or do they come to regret the aquaintance?
The Lord Byron’s of the world may be charismatic, but few of us admire the trail of human wreckage they leave in their wake.
Regret
While we are on the subject of regret, that is another useful indicator for where our own morality lies. Unfortunately, it is retrospective wisdom – experience gained just after you needed it.
Limerents tend to focus on the positive when in the grip of euphoria. You imagine all the amazing sensations of bliss when you finally surrender and immerse yourself in the obsession. It can be hard to even imagine negative outcomes, and the positive ones certainly overpower any pangs of conscience.
When it comes to it, fantasy often conflicts with reality. It is a mainstay of sex therapy to caution clients that the things that seem amazingly sexy in their imaginations (where everything plays out exactly as they want) can be very different in real life. Many things are best left as fantasy, as the reality can end up feeling… a bit sordid or unsettling.
There is a popular saying that on your deathbed you regret the things you didn’t do more than the things you did do. It’s a neat aphorism, but it hides a lot of ambiguity. Does regret over breaking up your family mean you regret you didn’t try harder to reconnect with your spouse, or you regret you did have an affair that ended your marriage?
Really, I think most people interpret this idea as regret over passing up opportunities to do things that would have made your life happier, better, more fulfilling. You regret not being true to yourself. You know you made the wrong choice in the moment, and you missed out on a long-term benefit that couldn’t be recovered.
What might that look like for you? The love letter not sent, the trip of a lifetime postponed forever, the birthday parties of a child missed for work?
Would the decision to reject an illicit affair make that kind of list?
Long-term solutions
The way to navigate through these issues is to really get honest with yourself and get familiar with the basis of your own fears. Regret stings most when you know you did the wrong thing – intellectually and emotionally.
A major element of a purposeful life is knowing yourself. Are you a people pleaser who can’t bear the thought of disappointing others? Are you afraid of missing out, of being overlooked or abandoned? Do you lack the confidence to assert your true beliefs? Have you suppressed your feelings for so long you are not even sure what they are?
It is hard to read your fears when you don’t know who you are or what you want. If you don’t have a sense of purpose, you are stuck in the merry-go-round of wondering if your fear is protecting you from harm or keeping you from growth.
When you begin to live with purpose, you understand your predicament better. You will be better able to judge if blowing up your life is a courageous decision, or a desperate attempt to escape from a trial you have be evading for too long.
One thing you can be sure of: the limerence will end. And you will still be you at the end of the episode, faced with the consequences of your choices. Unless you are a sociopath, that also means caring about the consequences for other people who trusted you.
When you live with purpose, you can make choices with integrity and foresight.
Impulsively doing something that will make your life worse is not liberation or bravery, it’s sabotage.
Great post. I am a bit troubled though by the link between personal integrity and (purposeful) self reflection. It seems to me that it’s hard to purposefully self-reflect as a way to have/act with personal integrity if you don’t already, simply because not having personal integrity is usually because you don’t have self-reflexive honesty to begin with. How can these people use honest self-reflection to change? Isn’t it kind of like saying ‘To get healthier, don’t be sick’? I am thinking in particular of my former LO, who had somehow convinced himself that he was an honest person even though his actions have been consistently dishonest, evasive, and selfish. For someone like him, he can think all he wants of someone he admires as being compassionate, kind, and admirable, but he will also amazingly think of himself that way too, so no reason to change! To actually start acting with integrity, he would have to reflect first on the fact that he does not think or behave with self-reflexive honesty, ask why that is, and deal with it. Obviously this is hard and takes a lot of courage .. and self-reflexive honesty!
I am not trying to be a cynic but it increasingly seems to me that real personal growth is very difficult, so that most people will remain as they are. They will either have personal integrity or not, and maybe that’s what the limerent experience puts to the test and exposes.
My limerence has certainly brought about self-reflexive honesty, and you are right it is hard to critique yourself and your prior actions, and realize “I was wrong in the way I acted”, in some ways it can be self defeating. But I do think purposeful self reflection can lead to personal integrity; it’s kind of like evolving perhaps your brain is making new connections, you learn new behaviors.
You can be healthy by making changes to your life style so you don’t get sick. It is hard, takes a lot of change, but it eventually becomes routine. If one is willing to put in the time and effort, find venues to help with personal enrichment then yes I think that can lead to personal integrity. I think limerence was the catalyst that brought me to the realization that there is “something not quite right here” which in turn led to a lot of self reflection; and I am still in the process of trying to figure it out.
“I am thinking in particular of my former LO, who had somehow convinced himself that he was an honest person even though his actions have been consistently dishonest, evasive, and selfish.”
@Reader.
I get what you’re saying here. Although I read the article on the assumption that we can only change/control ourselves. We can’t change or control the behaviour of others, including our LOs, even if we feel they’re very much in the wrong…
But you’re onto something. I think something a lot of LOs have in common is a lack of self-reflexive honesty, as you call it – an unwillingness ever to think about or acknowledge how their actions might impact on others.
What is meaningless fun to a dodgy LO is the start of a serious love relationship for the limerent, and it all goes downhill from there…
Still, the limerent can’t accuse the LO of “stringing them along”, because, in most cases, the LO will deflect blame and say the limerent was “reading into things”. The limerent was too cowardly to admit what they actually wanted i.e. a relationship with LO. (Maybe this is where we need courage – the courage to be honest about what we want and with the person from whom we want it?)
Our idealisation of our LOs can blind us to the fact that our LOs aren’t moral paragons by default, or even notably reasonable people. A lot of LOs I think are untrustworthy in their behaviour, but not necessarily from malice. I think the flakiness often comes from immaturity. Our LOs are flawed human beings, in other words, with poor boundaries and a questionable grasp of self and what is acceptable conduct. E.g. some LOs flirt with people they don’t genuinely like.
“I am not trying to be a cynic but it increasingly seems to me that real personal growth is very difficult, so that most people will remain as they are. They will either have personal integrity or not, and maybe that’s what the limerent experience puts to the test and exposes.”
I don’t think we can force our LOs to “grow up”. I think we can only focus on our own growth, and maybe explore why we were attracted to a “shifty character” in the first place. Perhaps that shifty character offered feelings of freedom, but the freedom turned out to be an illusion? A false dawn? The LO wasn’t a trustworthy travel companion on the rocky roads of life. Must be heart-breaking if what you’re actually thinking about is a situation involving mutual limerence.
A lot of LOs don’t have true courage, in other words. A lot of LOs are just reckless, impulsive, immature, and unwilling to accept responsibility for their own words/actions. We can have integrity, but we can’t demand the same from LOs. A dodgy LO has to go on their own journey of growth to become a decent person.
I guess the moral of the story is … trustworthiness is a really important trait in a potential partner? We should aspire to be with someone trustworthy?
“We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.” ― Kurt Vonnegut, Mother Night
What a beautifully put thought. Thank you.
“What is that inner resistance? Is it our conscience? Is it fear of social consequences? Is it insecurity? Or – as Marcia wonders – is it simple cowardice? A failure to muster the courage to overcome cultural strictures and embrace adventure?”
I’ve often wondered about the source of inner resistance myself. Increasingly, I suspect that “inner conflict” in and of itself could be described as a symptom of limerence. The feelings of guilt and shame don’t have to be grounded in any genuine wrongdoing. I think limerence is designed to drag out the courtship phase of mating, and lots of psychological turmoil is a great way to drag things out. It doesn’t matter whether the internal conflict is particularly valid or not. Mother Nature wants us to feel tortured, and any old excuse will do! 😛
In my own case, though, I think insecurity was the biggest source of inner resistance – and it was insecurity of the most delightfully neurotic kind. Sometimes, there is just a hint of the self-indulgent in limerence.
In other words, I think I subconsciously thought, “Hey, wait a minute. This feeling is too good to be true. I’ve been too lucky in finding my so-called soulmate, and it’s all going to blow up in my face. He’s too good for me. All I can ever hope for is crumbs, so I’ll take crumbs. The hypothetical gods are going to punish me. What for? Well, they’re going to punish me for the sin of hubris, to begin with. Human beings have no right to be so darn happy. What’s the catch?”
It was my own neurotic feelings of not really being worthy of LO in the first place that ruined things. My anxiety around LOs prevented me from ever truly enjoying the interactions with them. I actually didn’t really trust my LOs – and with good cause, since the “friendship” didn’t turn out to be sincere or long-lasting.
I guess I’m both a stoic and a pessimist deep down. Who knew someone with my less-than-sunshiny temperament would even being capable of experiencing the heady highs and miserable lows of limerence?
“We may look at other people who live life in a more devil-may-care way, and wonder if timidity is our problem, rather than a guilty conscience.”
The novelist Virginia Woolf observed in her diaries that she experienced “sexual timidity” and she seems to have been a limerent, too. She claimed all her friendships with women were “tinged with amorosity”. It definitely seems like the great lady blurred the line between friendship and romantic attraction, which Lucy Baines warns us not to do. Maybe what Woolf was referring to was the extreme shyness she must have felt around potential love interests?
“But, there is a difference between that, and just having the audacity to take what you want when you want it.”
Limerence taught me I need more pleasure in my life. And I’m not talking about romance or anything naughty. I’m talking about little outings to cafes, slices of cake, coffee, etc. I had a ridiculously strict childhood. Limerence may have been a warning that I had gone too far down the repressed and stuffy route and needed to find the middle ground between self-indulgence and self-discipline.
“Audacity can be compelling. People with passion, joie-de-vivre, and few emotional hang-ups can be wonderful company, wonderful people. But, if we’re honest, they can also be selfish, egotistic and narcissistic. Likewise, compassionate, sincere people with great integrity are admirable, but they can also be risk-averse, overcautious and, well, dull.”
Yes, I can see my LOs were men who had “recklessness” as a trait in their personalities, whereas I’ve always been very cautious and risk-adverse. Infuriatingly, the reckless aspect of these men’s natures seemed to have paid off in terms of career success and social popularity. But I’ve learned to like my own more cautious ways. I think my LOs were living life mostly to impress others, and there’s something a little bit inauthentic about that. There’s a difference between “success” and projecting an “image of success”. I’m not so sure now they’re truly happy people… I’m not so sure they’re success stories worthy of emulation…
“In a previous post, I related this dichotomy to the book Narcissus and Goldmund, in which Herman Hesse invites us to reflect on two lives – the selfish abandon of the artist versus the selfless duty of the monk.”
I can see where Hesse is going with his comparison. But I think a self-indulgent artist who is “following his bliss” wherever it takes him would ultimately be a bad artist, a very unproductive artist. Creativity requires self-discipline. An artist who spends all his time chasing pleasure would have no time left to reflect or work. The true artist in the comparison would then have to be the industrious monk. Perhaps the monk could listen to and record the artist’s tales of adventure?
Oh, and congrats Marcia on proposing the idea for this article! 😛
Sammy,
“Oh, and congrats Marcia on proposing the idea for this article! ”
Thank you, Sammy.
“The novelist Virginia Woolf observed in her diaries that she experienced “sexual timidity” and she seems to have been a limerent, too. ”
Yes, when I was talking about fear, I was talking about sexual timidity. I can’t really relate to this post as I’m not married. Of the half a dozen or so LEs I’ve had since high school, the available LOs came after me; I went after the unavailable ones. And, no, I don’t regret it. I would have regretted not doing it. Limerence seemed to be outside of the bounds of any normal consideration. It took me a while to muster up the courage to make big passes at these guys, but I started to abhor my own timidity. The limerence feelings were so overwhelming, there was no way I was going to walk away without at least giving things a shot.
In terms of courage, I was really talking about those opportunities that weren’t so clear cut. They weren’t based on limerence, so there was no wild heat propelling me to do it. More like … you get an opportunity for a one-off night and you think … why not? And then this person suggests something outside of the normal script, and part of you is annoyed that he just ruined a perfectly good opportunity , maybe even a tad disgusted, and you immediately say no. That was the question: What drove me to say no? And now looking back from the unfortunate vantage point of middle age, I probably should have taken those opportunities. 🙂
Song of the Blog: “Wasted on the Way” – Crosby, Stills and Nash (1982)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rhhf0OP2DE
“Oh when you were young did you question all the answers
Did you envy all the dancers who had all the nerve
Look round you know, you must go for what you wanted
Look at all my friends who did and got what they deserved”
Thank you for this website Dr. L. The content has been really helpful to me, to understand the trap I was in, and helping me climb out of it. Thanks again!
Great post. I think this is very closely related to the concept of rewriting history (at least it is to me anyway). For the longest time I was absolutely tortured by having feelings for someone else while married. I felt like I had betrayed my own values and my wedding vows. But at the same time, there was this nagging doubt in my mind that kept on telling me all was not right in my marriage. It always felt to me like limerence was a symptom rather than the disease itself. Still, I soldiered on and didn’t succumb to limerence or infidelity by doing anything truly inappropriate. The vast majority of my “crimes” were of the thought variety (although some could possibly argue my friendship with LO #2 has crossed the line into an emotional affair by now). Nevertheless — and I have mentioned this before — while I am still very much against actual cheating, I believe the parameters of acceptable conduct in a marriage shift slightly once one of the parties has clearly and unequivocally communicated numerous times that they want out of the relationship and nothing will change their mind (that is where I am at with my wife; I am utterly transparent and steadfast about communicating to my wife that I want separation and divorce).
Because I learned about limerence fairly early on, I was well aware of this tendency to rewrite history. In all honesty, I think we all do it to some extent, and I believe I was at least a little bit guilty of it. I probably did make my marital and family woes out to be slightly worse than they were at times, but at the same time I spent a lot of time reflecting on my marriage as objectively as possible. Once I objectively looked at some of the actual behaviours that were present from my wife and how I was feeling for more than a year, I began to realize I’m living in a dead marriage. Aside from any fault, blame or moral judgement, I really firmly believe by now that my wife just isn’t a good fit for me and I am not a good fit for her either. I really believe we would be better off going our separate ways but still remaining on as good terms as possible for our daughter’s sake and so as not to sully our shared memories (but if she wants to be my enemy, as I suspect she would, so be it).
It took me a while to muster up the courage to be able to communicate this to my wife consistently and calmly, even when we weren’t fighting. Still, I had to be sure this is what I wanted and it wasn’t just the limerence talking. I know objectively I’m not likely to ever end up with LO #1 (she’s a stranger who never showed me any validation) or LO #2 (I’m not her type, I’m pretty sure I would always be in the friendzone with her, and I believe the relatively small amount of validation she showed me early on was just to stroke her own ego and get me “hooked” on her). Sure, I would be really interested in finding love again, but I am pretty sure it won’t be with either of those two ladies.
Back in the summer, a beautiful younger woman (probably around 10 years younger than me) approached me in a bar where a live band was playing and wanted to dance with me. She told me she was nervous about approaching me (from the opposite side of the place) because my friend and I were sitting chatting to two (considerably older) women, but it was totally innocent. I thought she just wanted to dance, but apparently she was looking for more because she was upset and angry when she found out I am married. Nothing happened, and the interaction lasted less than a minute, but I couldn’t believe a woman that pretty would be interested in me. I don’t think I had anyone that hot approach me like that even when I was single and in my twenties. I never became limerent for her or anything even close to that, but I was intrigued. It certainly was food for thought and it made me realize there’s a whole world out there beyond LO #1 and LO #2.
So, I really think I was able to demonstrate a certain amount of actual courage in being resolute and consistent with my wife in intimating that I want out of our marriage. The old me never would have had the guts to do that. I don’t think it’s just chutzpah on my part because I agonized over this for probably over a year. It will be incredibly hard to blow up my life — and my wife is completely resistant to separation and divorce at this point — but I have to think it will eventually sink in that I am serious about this and I am never going to change my mind. The funny thing is that even throughout this, she hasn’t even really tried to be nice to me. She still displays the same bossy, controlling, manipulative, abusive and dictatorial behaviour towards me and she still seems to have little empathy for me most of the time.
It sounds like you have been through some difficult struggles in your marriage. Can we get an update? How are you now?
The one thing I am most skeptical about, even though I have proof to support your claim, is that limerence always ends. It has always ended before for me. But for others? They are decades into suffering. Lifetimes. This one for me, oh, this one feels like it will last for all time. Even with NC. If she exists, I will find a way to know what she is up to. I feel as if she will forever be a flickering star of what could have been. The one that got away. I pray the chemicals subside and see myself back to my otherwise happy life.
Can’t believe I missed this post. Thanks to Marcia’s comment for compelling Dr. L to make this post.
My first thought reading the first section; aren’t the fear of the social consequences of declaring to LO our feelings just the same as cowardice? Afraid to destroy a marriage, a family, and all the other consequences that come with declaring love to someone else not cowardice? Isn’t the uncertainty of how LO is going to react to this deceleration not cowardice? And I don’t think starting a relationship with limerence at an all time high “adventurous”, married or single, but rash and possibly hurtful. But I guess that is dependent on what one thinks is “adventurous”.
Admirable people are those that try and put others before themselves, in my book. If I am honest with myself I think that LO’s well being and future were what stopped myself. I am not saying I didn’t consider my wife, family, marriage, divorce fall out, etc. And again if I am honest with myself I was not good for LO. Even before limerence I have things to work on myself. And the limerence itself was proof of that. I work on myself for my wife and my sons. It would be highly selfish to peruse LO and abandon my wife and sons. The actual consequences of divorce or separation seemed secondary as nothing in life is constant.
I regret getting limerent. I don’t regret meeting LO. She’s a wonderful lady that let me into her life; meeting her daughter and letting me in on parts of her life. I don’t regret that anymore than I would regret other people I remember fondly that have left my life. I regret the limerence. The limerence had me obsess over another woman. My limerence hurt my wife. My limerence damaged our marriage. My limerence hurt my sons. My limerence did as much damage as an affair would/could have done. That’s why it is MY regret. LO was innocent in my inner battle. She was more simply (because all the dominoes that had to fall into place for me to even had the chance to meet her made a very long line) in the wrong place at the wrong time.
“Are you a people pleaser who can’t bear the thought of disappointing others?”
Yes for the most part. Though as I get older I am getting better at saying no.
“Are you afraid of missing out, of being overlooked or abandoned?”
Abandoned yes. And that fear may have been one of the things that pushed me into limerence. Instead of doing the hard work and repairing the connection with my wife and swam in the bliss of limerence.
“Do you lack the confidence to assert your true beliefs?”
When I was younger yes. It took me years to finally speak for myself to my parents. To let them know that their path that they wanted me to go in life wasn’t the same one I wanted. That was when I was 24 or 25. My entire childhood was keep quiet and believe what you are told to believe. They know what is best for me.
“Have you suppressed your feelings for so long you are not even sure what they are?”
I am coming to grips with that now. Midlife has done quite a number on me. That I became limerent for another woman made me realize that being true to my marriage wasn’t easy. If you told me at 23 I would look at another woman with passion I would tell you I would never be such a pos to my wife. And here I am where I am at. 45 and am that person I said I’d never be.
My wife is my one and only. I do believe it was L.E. that posted that his father told him never to marry a virgin. This limerence has even made me question love. Not my love for my wife or sons. If we divorced tomorrow I would still love her. We were friends before lovers. That love will never die. But it made me question loving another woman. In other words it made me question my marriage. If even for a moment, I thought, what if LO ….. ?
My regret is not for getting married. I was 23, which pretty good amount of time single to get my $hit together. I don’t regret marrying my wife. I think one of the driving forces of staying in the limerence was curiosity. Most of ruminations and daydreams were of being in a relationship with her. A whole new life. Many times my wife remained in my ruminations as another player in my life. Any number of ambiguous circumstances that put us apart and LO available to me. 23 years of marriage and I get cold feet?
The purposeful living in something I am trying to implement. Midlife our boys are getting to that age, one an adult and living on his own the other 17 and going to be at that point soon too has apparently shook me up more than I thought at first. LO felt like she gave me purpose because she triggered my rescue complex to full blast. And that gave me direction and purpose. And I was selfish enough to indulge in it. Was there something in my life I was missing because I was too afraid to speak up? Is it something my wife could have provided for me if I confided in her so as to stop the limerence before it started? Probably yes to both. But too late because it did happen. Now it’s time to pick up the pieces of the puzzle and put it back together before some pieces get lost forever, if they haven’t already, and I can never have a complete picture of my marriage.