One of the questions I was asked last week by the producers at Treefort was “why do limerents feel guilty?” Having had time to reflect, I think I kind of fluffed that question.
I talked mainly about the magnitude of the emotional response, and how social pressure tends to discourage outward displays of emotion, especially in Britain (although less so nowadays; I am quite old). This means the limerent bottles up feelings that they are ashamed of having, without a healthy mechanism for release.
I don’t think that answer is wrong, but it’s certainly incomplete. So with the luxury of being able to write a considered response at leisure, rather than answering on the spur of the moment, here are some more thoughts.
1) They are undeniably romantic feelings
This is the obvious point, in retrospect. Limerence is a desperate desire for another person. If the limerent has a partner or spouse, such feelings create an internal conflict that will understandably cause guilt – or at the very least, cognitive dissonance. You can be in love with your partner – proper, healthy, securely-attached love – but overwhelmed by feelings of desire for this other person. Really, there are only two obvious ways your subconscious can react: recognise it as a mental betrayal of your partner and feel guilt, or try to eliminate the conflict by devaluing the partner.
Limerents that react defensively (or resentfully) to feelings of guilt can even deliberately devalue their partner, in order to assuage the terrible feeling that – God forbid – they might have done something wrong.
More well-adjusted limerents will accept the guilt, because at an emotional level it is a betrayal, in the sense that most of us would like to be able to sustain the monogamous ideal of simple, uncomplicated love for one person without being put into a spin by inconvenient other people hanging around being all intoxicating. But that’s the world we live in, so we need to find ways to take responsibility for ourselves and cope.
2) It’s disproportionate and we know it
The second source of guilt is how powerful the limerent response is. It’s all encompassing. Life consuming. But despite the urgent demands of our limerent subconscious, we somehow still retain enough mental awareness to recognise that the response is completely over the top. LO isn’t, objectively, that special. We know it, but don’t want to admit it, because that lessens the good feelings. It also makes us feel foolish and self-deluding, because who goes to pieces over an ordinary, everyday person? Not us! No. LO must be astonishingly special because otherwise what idiots we would be! Better shut down that nagging guilt within that we are behaving like ridiculous lovestruck adolescents with poor impulse control, over someone who is no more or less remarkable than any of the other millions of souls struggling through life.
3) Limerence laughs at self-discipline
Linked into the previous idea, is guilt caused by persistent failure of moral fortitude when LO is around. Like a self-indulgent child with their hand in the cookie jar, the limerent keeps going back for more even when they know it’s bad for them and they are already starting to feel a little queasy. As a generally fairly self-possessed adult man, I was pretty ashamed of my lack of self-discipline when in the depths of limerence. I knew it needed to stop, but hadn’t yet developed the psychological toughness to resist the siren call of LO. That took time and trial-and-error experiments, and so every self-indulgent fix along the way was followed by the guilty nausea that I’d failed again. It’s not nice to continually resolve to change and then fail at the very next test. It feels… shameful.
4) Why can’t we just be friends?
Another – perhaps more subtle – guilt comes from the fact that we usually find that our LOs are great company. LO kindles something within us and makes us feel happy and safe and contentedly-connected to them. The sort of thing that would make for a great friendship if we weren’t consumed by romantic desire. So, our inability as limerents to be a good friend to someone we care about is another source of failure and shame. Why can’t we stop being so overwrought and just hang out with them as a friend? Are we really so weak-willed that we have to cut them out of our lives completely? I mean, it’s not their fault we’re so emotionally incontinent that we can’t spend time with them without getting tangled up like a ball of string that a cat’s been at.
5) Should we feel guilty?
So, there are several causes of guilt, but are they justified? I’ve touched on this before. In my view the simple answer is: your behaviour is what counts.
If you are making dreamy eyes at LO, hinting at your desire for a strong connection, and testing their keenness, then you are breaking the commitment you made to your partner. If you are getting physical with LO then – well, I don’t think any functional adult really needs to be told that, yes, that is a betrayal. Whether your partner is willing to forgive any particular moral lapse depends on their own perspective on monogamy, and where their own red lines are, but generally speaking, it’s when you do something to vocalise your feelings or act on them that you open yourself up to the judgement of others. That’s the point where you move from an internal conflict to an external action that affects other people. That’s the point when guilt is appropriate and useful – if you can learn from it rather than wallow in it.
When you shouldn’t feel guilty, in contrast, is while the conflict remains internal. I really dislike the idea of feeling guilty about thoughts or emotions. Use them as a guide, certainly. Use them as a way of recognising that your thoughts are in conflict with your moral compass. Definitely learn from them, but feeling guilty about having thoughts or feelings that make you uncomfortable is feeling guilty about being human. It’s essential that we are able to explore wrong, transgressive ideas in our minds, and work through them to understand ourselves better. Any time we challenge ourselves we will feel discomfort. And if we feel guilt or shame, it’s a good stimulus for examining what’s going on in our lives and what our subconscious is trying to signal to us. That internal monologue is normal and healthy.
Feeling ashamed of being limerent is in the same category for me as feeling ashamed of being gay. It’s a toxic denial of an aspect of your own identity that will not make you a “better” person, but will just cause pain and self-loathing.
By chance at the moment, I’m reading a book by Ellis Peters (one of the Brother Cadfael mysteries) called The Raven in the Foregate, which seems pertinent. In the story, a new priest is given the “cure” of a parish, and turns out to be so strict and pedantic about canon law that he terrorises his small community into fear and self-doubt. One quote about how some of the more sensitive parishioners were affected struck me as especially powerful:
They look within for sins they may have committed, unknowing. They are no longer sure what is sin and what is not, so they dare not breathe without wondering if they do wrong.
Insecure people can be made to feel guilty and flawed over nothing but their own internal doubts. Your thoughts are yours to use as you please; other people only become involved when you put them into action.
100% spot on for me.
The guilt is probably the hardest part of the limerence for me.
Guilt was what stopped it from developing into either disclosure with rejection or a physical affair for me. At least therapy (and support from this site) has helped things improve a bit.
I felt guilty towards my SO during the height of Limerence, mainly because my mind was elsewhere and I knew that was the case but couldn’t stop it. We’d be out for dinner, sat at home watching tv or lying in bed together and I’d be either texting LO or thinking about her. It wasn’t crippling guilt, just there constantly at the back of my mind.
Now I feel guilty about being NC with LO. I was her mentor, the career choice she’s just made was with my encouragement. Without me guiding her and opening doors for her she would have done something very different (and worse). Now I’ve vanished and she has to fend for herself.
She’ll probably be fine, I know that, and i did the right thing by her. I’m also now doing the right thing by my family and myself. But I feel uneasy nonetheless.
In my more rational moments, I’ve experienced much of the above but when in full limerency mode I find that guilt is easily pushed to one side. During an LE, normal compassionate thinking goes out of the window because there is only one thing that really matters.
After a recent period of NC I experienced a new type of guilt, thinking that I might actually be leading on LO when in reality I have no intention of leaving my SO and starting up a new life with her (although this stance seems to fluctuate). It’s really selfish of me to put her in a position that could risk what she already has, just for my own ends and particularly as I’m older and should be wiser.
Well I didnt feel guilty to be honest – as harsh as it sounds. Dont think i was/am getting the emotional connection with SO so getting it elsewhere felt nice and an ESCAPE. Once I learnt about limerence and how i had a limber beast inside me, then I did feel guilty as realised the damage i must have been doing to the relationship. Over Dec and Jan I was showing more attention and even SO noticed that I was hugging more and paying more attention at home as I realised how she must be feeling – feeling lonely whilst Im elsewhere mentally, even though physically next to her.
It all sounds bad – but this is the power of Limerence. Luckily nothing physical happened so dont need to feel guity but it did emotionally as I was buying gifts and meeting her on her own and not being truthful with SO about these meetings and never disclosed gifts. so a tad guilty about that.
I had to do some fancy mental gymnastics to handle the cognitive dissonance but I’d been doing that since I was a kid so it wasn’t too hard. The therapist said I had an answer for everything. It wasn’t always a good answer but I had one. I’d covered all the bases.
I’ve never been a big fan of guilt. Guilt’s like voodoo. It only works if you believe it and someone else can try to instill it in you.
I prefer remorse. It wasn’t guilt that helped get me on track, it was remorse. I knew I’d gone off the rails and it was my responsibility to get back on them.
This link has a pretty good explanation of the difference:
https://feverinsidethestorm.com/2008/07/05/guilt-vs-remorse/
Guilt and shame are about how you feel about your actions. Remorse is about what you do as a consequence of guilt (or sober self-reflection).
Not to put too fine a point on this distinction, but I think it’s important: Remorse is about what you might think to do to make amends in response to feeling guilty about something you did. But shame is different. It’s more about who you are (or believe you are); therefore, it cuts deeper. Guilt and embarrassment can be motivating. But shame is destructive and soul-crushing.
As mentioned the other day, I am actually feeling a bit better lately about my limerence, but I think I am starting to analyze my thoughts and beliefs a little more. I am thinking more about limerence itself and my own LE rather than my actual LO, if that makes any sense. This is a really good post about guilt. I do feel some level of guilt, and I suppose that is a good thing, but for the longest time I started to question myself and wondered if I really was as morally sound and decent a person as I thought I was. Limerence really began to make me question myself, despite the fact it is quite understandable and “normal” that I would develop limerence for another woman given the current strain on my marriage and home life. I also had some thoughts I wasn’t proud of, but I now realize that we shouldn’t beat ourselves up for letting certain things cross our minds (especially if we later reject them or dismiss them as not being something we would ever actually want or put into action). Dr. L puts it so well when he says the following:
“Definitely learn from them, but feeling guilty about having thoughts or feelings that make you uncomfortable is feeling guilty about being human. It’s essential that we are able to explore wrong, transgressive ideas in our minds, and work through them to understand ourselves better. Any time we challenge ourselves we will feel discomfort. And if we feel guilt or shame, it’s a good stimulus for examining what’s going on in our lives and what our subconscious is trying to signal to us.”
I am not trying to take morality out of the equation here or say it isn’t important, but I really think this is helpful. Thankfully, we still haven’t criminalized “thought crimes” and the above passage speaks to why doing so would be such an awful idea.
Thank you for this DrL, I’m happy to rediscover older blog posts which are so helpful.
I agree with you VL, we shouldn’t feel guilty about our thoughts, as long as we don’t act on them. Nevertheless, my Limerence *has* an impact on my behavior, as my mind is often elsewhere, and for that I do feel guilty. I know my SO is suffering because of that. I’m also feeling guilty that I’m not telling him what’s going on in my mind. But I can’t disclose, it would kill him.
Only thing I can do about it is working hard to fight my limerence. Recently I have managed to take a lot of distance from my feelings for LO. Somehow it must have a positive impact on my behavior at home, as my SO is less criticizing and reproaching towards me. I on the other hand don’t feel that the distance I take from LO makes me be closer to SO. It just makes me feel so empty and sad. Disenfranchised grief as DrL wrote about before.
“I am thinking more about limerence itself and my own LE rather than my actual LO, if that makes any sense. ” Makes total sense VL and I think I’m experiencing the same currently. I hope it means progress.
Thanks Emma. I haven’t been there for my wife either for the last five months. I have disclosed to her, but she doesn’t understand the magnitude of my feelings for my LO. Lately I lied to my wife when she asked me if I was thinking about my LO. I am feeling tremendously guilty about all of this (as well as the fantasies), but I do give myself a bit of a pass due to my situation. The syrupy-sweetness from my wife is killing me though (although she does slip up sometimes and she and my daughter are still at each other’s throats). I am so damn frustrated that this stupid pandemic has put so much on hold in terms of improving our marriage and my own self-improvement.
Funnily enough, I think I may have seen my LO the other day outside a supermarket near where she lives (my wife and I went there to get something our local store was out of). A woman who looked like her was looking at me as we walked by (we were on the way in and she was just leaving). The thing is I don’t have great eyesight for distances and I only wear my glasses for driving. I also have a bad habit of seeing people and not recognizing them (one time I even failed to recognize my own brother for a few seconds). It may have been her, and if it was, I am a little disappointed she wouldn’t have said anything (provided she was certain it was me). I would never knowingly ignore her, even if I was with my wife (and my wife wouldn’t be rude to her or anything like that – she knows my LO was/is into her brother). The funny thing is I am not that worried about this though. A month ago, I would have obsessed over seeing her, but not now. Chances are it wasn’t her, but it might have been (I actually saw another woman a few minutes before who also looked like her). Sure, I am still thinking I see her in every crowd (not that there are many “crowds” these days), but I am not all that flustered about it. I suppose that is an improvement as well, especially given how much I obsessed over what I would say or do if I ever saw her again?
Yup, I’ve always felt massively guilty about my limerent feelings. It conflicts with my moral ideal that human beings (including myself) should be able to practise self-control. Sometimes I tried to shift the blame on an LO for the situation, but the blame-shifting never worked. I knew deep down I was the one with the problem.
Also wonder if the guilt feelings are tied in with the OCD aspect of limerence? The obsessive fear that some OCD-prone people have that they’ve done something wrong? Sort of like being blessed (cursed?) with an overactive conscience you can’t turn off? Does anyone else find themselves obsessing over moral trifles?
Y’all are creeps. Leave us “Limerent Objects” alone, it’s that simple.
Sorry, just wondering how you know you’re a LO? How is it you know somebody is obsessed with you?
I am trying to avoid my LO and I am doing my best not to think about him. I would be mortified if he knew how I felt.
I certainly can’t tell if somebody is attracted to me unless they make it darn obvious.
I am just wondering what your limerent has done to expose their feelings towards you?
In my case, I stared at my LO a lot. Think she got the hint..
Everyone else in the office teased me I had a crush on LO. If they all knew than I am sure she knew. The special treatment, gifts, catering to her, buying her favorite treats for breakfast (white chocolate latte, sprinkle donuts, kolaches) it wasn’t difficult for her, I imagine to know I had more than co-worker feelings for her. I always interceded in her defense. No matter how trivial or actually constructive the criticism was. She could do no wrong. There was no doubt that she was my favorite person in the office and I was not afraid to voice it. However in my mind I thought I was being quite discreet about my feelings and didn’t realize everyone was aware of my actions and words. It’s what, upon finding this place, limerents call “leaking” your limerence. You are totally unaware just how obvious you are being while thinking you are being discreet.
While LOs may not know they are “LOs” they definitely know you are bestowing them special treatment. How they deal with that is different from one LO to another. But I feel most LOs recognize and garner the special treatment that they are getting. And who wouldn’t? We all like getting attention and favors.
“I am just wondering what your limerent has done to expose their feelings towards you?”
The thing about this is, just as your feelings towards them are distorted due to limerence, so are their feelings towards you. You will likely see things that are not there. Take more from a smile or a “thank you” or “you’re so helpful Adam.” I would do anything to get that high. “Adam can you carry this out to the customer’s car, it’s really heavy?” Oh God yes!!!! I am being helpful to her! Limerence distorts not just how we perceive our own actions, but also that of LO’s. LO while competent in my facets of life was a short, small framed woman. It was a simple matter of her realizing it was beyond her physical abilities so she asked for my help. And Captain Caveman (not sure many will get that reference) came out in me and rushed to help her and peacock’d doing it.
I doubt any LO doesn’t know they are an LO. Whether they understand the term limerence or not.
It sounds like she probably suspected you had a crush. I doubt she knew it was limerence. I am sure most people have never heard the term limerence.
In fact, I only just discovered the term after searching how to stop obsessing over someone. I am pretty sure I fit Dorothy Tennov’s definition. I feel guilty and ashamed of my feelings, as I am happily married and I deeply love my husband. My LO is my husband’s friend. He is also married and I am friends with his wife. Furthermore, our children are friends and they attend the same primary school together.
The thing is- I barely know my LO. I haven’t really spoken much to him. I tend to speak to his wife. I don’t have any male friends, apart from my husband. It all started last year, my daughter’s first year at the school, when I ran into him during school pick ups. He’s a polite person, and so when he picks his children up from school he waves and occasionally chats with me. Just small talk really. I feel like I know him based on what I have heard from my husband. I believe I am obsessed with the idea of him- or what I think I know about him. He’s a chef and an artist and a perfectionist- he does everything beautifully. I
We started spending more time with him and his family. Visiting them, going to the pool with them during the summer. I gradually became more and more obsessed- to the point I started searching his name online. I started looking at his instagram photos, his videos on vimeo and his fb profile. I deactivated my fb and uninstalled instagram on my phone in order to stop myself.
I don’t believe I am as blatantly obvious as other limerents towards their LOs. I think he may have caught me staring at him at the pool- but that’s it. I don’t have his number and I never added him as a friend on fb.
If I am exposed, I would hurt my husband and ruin my friendship with my LO’s wife. Of course, my husband and my kids are most important to me.
I am not sure what to do, as I can’t seem to get my LO out of my head. It’s pathetic- but I have tried picking my daughter up early. I have tried to avoid him during school pick ups and drop offs. I am not sure what to do. At this point, I want to completely cut ties with him and his wife. I wish and hope we could move away, so I could stop running into him.
Dear CL,
As all the practical things like no social media, no texting, no flirting are already in hand, so I don’t think that there is anything else that you can do except to distract yourself from your thoughts.
Taking control of your thoughts is not easy – as I am sure you know!!! Distractions may only provide short term relief, but the idea is to practice not thinking about him until it becomes habitual. In my experience, this works especially well with low or no contact. So minimising contact (like you are doing) and also not indulging in reverie, not imaging a dream life together, or how he would be as a partner. Also, if possible, not even thinking negative thoughts about this situation, but getting away from it entirely in your mind. You might find physical exercise or something very absorbing will be needed to help distract yourself – a fiendishly difficult puzzle, some demanding housework or other task, a live music gig…
If you are in the ‘intrusive thoughts’ phase of limerence where you find it difficult to think about anything other than him, you may need to read some of the blogs on strategies to use for that, and even try the emergency deprogramming course that Dr L provides on this site. If you are not in that severe phase but just tired of feeling this way, developing the habit of not thinking about him at all will be difficult at first, but not impossible, especially with no contact. Your brain has been trained on obsessing over this person and now it needs to be starved of this input to untrain itself again.
best wishes to you – don’t feel down on yourself – limerence happens to the best of us!!
Bx
PS I wish I could take my own advice 🙂
The obsessive part is difficult. In my particular case it was not as sensitive as yours since LO was a co-worker and not a family friend. It is a difficult tight rope to walk as leaning either to the right or left can have dire consequences.
Good steps are what you doing now. Social media is quite the shark in the murky waters. Since I saw LO daily I never transversed that path with her until after she left the job. Than social media became quite the high I needed. So you have made good steps already. And you should be proud of yourself for that.
” I believe I am obsessed with the idea of him- or what I think I know about him.”
Most limerents are. We have idealized our LOs based on how they fit into our imaginative narrative. You said he’s a chef, an artist and a perfectionist. Are those attractive qualities? LO had many qualities I noticed that were different than my wife’s. Both practically and in her personality. So she quickly became quite the perfect person. This is not uncommon with limerents. It is why we get so obsessive with our LOs because they seem so perfect.
“I don’t believe I am as blatantly obvious as other limerents towards their LOs.”
From the level of interactions that you have with him that you have shared I would agree with you. But if the obsession gets more intense than there is a greater chance that you will push further into it. I will give a personal example. It has been over two years since I last seen LO. I was getting ready for work this morning. And when I was driving in the back of my head I thought “I said LOs name last night”. I don’t remember in what context. I don’t know if my wife heard me. I just remember I said her name. And I know I have to face that when I get home this evening.
The best explanation I have ever heard of limerence is “person addiction”. And it is so true. Like any addiction, the more you get the more you want. And to ween off of that addiction is very difficult. And on that road to recovery you are going to have some setbacks. But you seem to be making very positive steps to try and overcome this and that is very admirable.
“I wish and hope we could move away, so I could stop running into him.”
Hopefully there are other members here that can help you with this. While I can technically call LO, no contact was put on me when she decided to leave the job. When I met her she was recently divorced. When she left the job she was seeing another man. Despite feeling he took her away from me, I know that, from observations of them, that he is good for her and her daughter. And so I maintain no contact. There are others here that still have to interact with their LOs despite wanting to move on pass the obsession. But realize that even if you could move away, that doesn’t make the limerence go away.
As the song lyric goes “what if time doesn’t do what it’s suppose to do, what if I never get over you.” For some overcoming limerence can take years or a lifetime. Damn, now I need a drink. 🙂
Welcome to our club, Creepy Limerent! You have found your tribe. Our LwL friends have great advice for you. I want to add a little.
Please don’t be too hard on yourself. Shame is not helpful. You didn’t do this on purpose.
I admire your commitment to your husband! You are determined to do the right thing even if it’s hard. So cool!
At some point, you might want to disclose your feelings to your LO. DON’T DISCLOSE TO LO. I highly recommend that you talk to us instead. Disclosure changes things. Disclosure to LO usually makes things worse.
You will get through this. Best wishes!
“Sorry, just wondering how you know you’re a LO? How is it you know somebody is obsessed with you?”
Let’s see…
https://livingwithlimerence.com/why-limerence-is-not-just-a-crush/ Explains the difference between a crush and limerence.
In https://livingwithlimerence.com/what-is-limerence/, DrL explains the definition of limerence and list Tenov’s criteria for it. The next step would be to look for indicators that the suspect limerent is exhibiting. Since the characteristics reside within the limerent, you probably can’t observe them directly. It’s probably going to be more of a gut feel thing. Things just don’t seem right and/or a little over the top, like a marginally inappropriate gift. Buying an acquaintance or low social-capital co-worker a latte on their birthday is fine, sending them flowers raises a flag.
I have a pretty good sense of self-worth. I think I fall within the first standard deviation of being “an OK guy.” If people think that I’m a lot less than that (rare) or a lot more than that (even more rare), it arouses my suspicion. The better that you know yourself, the easier it is to read people.
If you think you are an LO, check out this.
https://livingwithlimerence.com/help-someone-is-limerent-for-me/
Here is a funny story about flowers, Limerent Emeritus…
During my 5-month engagement to SO, I received flowers twice from other men. Both times, my SO was present when the flowers were delivered and I reflexively thanked him without reading the card. I’m sure you can imagine how awkward it was for my SO to say, “Those flowers are not from me.” I felt confused both times, too. One bouquet was red roses delivered to my house from the guys at work for my birthday. The other bouquet was an assortment from a client that was trying too hard to win me over. I suspected the client had a crush on me, but I just thought my coworkers were being sweet.
I don’t think you KNOW if you’re an LO unless the limerent tells you. You might notice odd behavior, but there are other explanations. Also, you might suspect that someone has a crush on you, but you probably won’t know how intense that crush is.
i’ve not before read the last blog linked. it’s very entertaining !
One issue is that at some point the limerent brain learns that we are probably leaking and then puts measures in place to appear less limerent, disguising the intensity.
Such as:
– I will leave that message from LO unread for at least 12 hours even though I cannot stop thinking about it.
-From the corner of your eye
LO enters the crowded room, you force yourself to not move a muscle in their direction for at least 5 minutes.
Etc …
@CL
I agree from experience as the limerent with what several others here have said. We tend to ‘leak’ to our LO through a cluster of things including words, body language, ‘random’ acts of kindness, how we relate to them compared to other ‘friends’ etc. It is the combo of some of these things more than one of them alone that would fully give us away. And it depends how close to the LO you are and how much you interact with them (forced or otherwise), how much opportunity they have to detect it. I am pretty invested in mine as a friend (prior to her LO status to me) so I suspect she could put the pieces together despite my best efforts not to leak. It is really worth thinking in your boat how to keep as much distance as possible in the circumstances. Much as that might go against every more primal desire in your brain!
I agree that we’d be far more likely to ‘leak a crush’ than ‘leak limerence’ but in my case, even leaking a crush would be (?is) far too much, given that I am in the same boat as you with having an SO.
The advice others have given here about not disclosing to your LO is very sound. At times the urge to has been pretty overwhelmimg, but the goldmine of posts and others experiences in the comments here has stopped me. It rarely if ever seems to end well if one or both of you are attached, and for most here multiplies the trauma. If you ever feel close, I urge you to find an old post here from around 2019 called ‘When not to disclose’. I among others have shared more of my story there and bits of that post and its comments pull me back from disclosing even in my weakest moments.
Good stuff for talking to people here. It is a great supportive community but also one where other posters will reality check you when needed from them recognising limerent patterns of thinking for what they are.
Something I often remind myself is that my LE is not the fault of my LO, which means she doesn’t deserve to be dragged into it by me disclosing. Situations and LOs may vary, but this is usually pretty sound.
Best of luck!
I know I “leaked.” I’m just not sure how. I suspect it was the trembly hand one day when LO stood near me helping me with something. And he wasn’t even a full LO yet–I think he was still a “crush” at that point. I know I “leaked” because he started hitting on me more, lol.
I have one friend who I have spoken to most about this ongoing situation. Although she doesn’t know the ins and outs of limerence she is a devil’s advocate and is a very good voice of reason. One thing I have struggled with over the last week or so and she will tell me this, is the fact I see my ‘friendship’ with LO as completely different to how he sees it.
I’ve really struggled with this after I did/said something that was not taken well last week. With a good friend, it would have been something that I think should have been spoken through to address any misunderstanding. That’s what I would do if my friend was upset about something that they perceived me doing which wronged them. But I also wonder whether I would have been so bold as to confront any of my girlfriends about a similar thing. Probably not. I have my guard up with LO but also sometimes it’s really down (I keep leaking, fixing it, then it leaks again.)
I value my friends support. Her comments are direct ‘stop contacting now or he’ll think you’re a weirdo’ but the ‘he doesn’t see you the same way as you see him’ is a bitter pill to swallow. I go between feeling embarrassed and angry. I am doubting myself and all interaction now. My self esteem has taken a knock. I know this is a good starting point for NC and recovery and regaining some self respect and integrity but I also do care what LO thinks. Distorted reality it such a blow. I can’t believe that LO doesn’t value me/our friendship, at least in the way I view it.
Uncertainty is horrible. The advice on here us true, it doesn’t matter what LO thinks, change comes from within.
But I do feel very uncomfortable that I could have so badly misread the vibes.
This is such a hard thing for so many of us to take, isn’t it? That the LO never saw the friendship (‘special relationship’) as we did, so by definition what we saw was in our head, not reality. It is so hard to resolve that dissonance. I’m processing this in my case now, and my thoughts are with you as you process it.
Something inbetween is possible, remember. That is – even though your LO seemingly didn’t see what you saw, it doesn’t mean they saw no value in you as a friend either.
Can you instigate a chat with him about said incident, or do you feel that takes you backwards compared to trying to go LC/NC and move on?
Whomp,
I remember these exact same steps from my LE: First I got disproportionately upset about some things LO said. After a couple of these I was ready to swear off contact but then I always “forgave” him. He might have thought I was a little overdramatic and didn’t realize there was anything to forgive!
Then, like I think Mila and/or Imho mentioned, his responses started to take more time, as he was busy with other (more important!) things. And again I was ready to swear off contact. But you see how this goes: I came back.
Maybe you are also reaching the final step for us impatient types. Which for me was confronting him about not being as active (in contact) as I thought a good “friend” should be.
To smart LO that was disclosure enough and it led to a firm yet friendly rejection. And with that I got to go NC a few months ago. I haven’t looked back (except once 😂 with contact and in my thoughts that became much less frequent!).
LO saw the relationship differently than I did and even told me so. Of course it stung, but it helped me go NC.
And even in hindsight, my opinion still is that we had a connection and it was (mostly!) fun while it lasted!
I do have an all or nothing personality, I think. Either besties or I can’t bring myself to call you friend. There are different layers of friendships I know but I wouldn’t call an aquiaintance a friend unless we’ve socialised for about a year ha. But yes, there can be in-between friendships. I do think this was more than just a colleague but also reality it is, the actions stung me more than they should for a friend. It’s so funny despite the warnings, I did think I could handle being friends, like I was a superhero who could withdstand all the classic LE symptoms that everyone else experienced.
But we never met up and have very infrequent chats. He was a good listening ear when I found things tough though. He wouldn’t know that he helped me through the days in my last job as much as he did.
I think this is NC now. No need to pick at the wound. I just cant risk my emotions leaking everywhere. Maybe a bit of LC like an occasional hello but hopefully just as a means to full NC. I don’t want to risk becoming disproportionately upset again. It’s not a good look haha. I have a cool rep to protect 😵💫😅.
But as I am the instigator of contact (boohoo) at least I won’t be tempted to interact with him by him contacting me. Especially now after my last bout of weird.
Hi guys,
Thank you so much for accepting me into your community. I was meaning to reply earlier. I have been really busy over the last few weeks with study.
I went against your advice @Loviasa. I reactivated my Facebook and sent him a series of creepy sad and crazy messages. He was really cold and harsh.
Feeling really flat and depressed.
We try to be logical here. Not advising to go against the grain.
Okay, you made a mistake. Maybe don’t send creepy messages to anyone in the future. Let’s try to divert ourselves when we get into creepy or crazy land.
Was his cold behavior at least helpful?
@Adam, I believe I found him attractive on a very superficial level. I also saw qualities in him that I envied . I wish I could be talented and likable.
Every time he simply said, ‘hi’ during school drop offs I felt elated both anxious. It was paralyzing. But, now I am sure I will never see him again. So, I won’t hopefully suffer the crippling anxiety anymore.
I was pretty aggressive in the messages I sent him. I told him I didn’t want to see him
By the way, and this is unrelated, I really like your writing style, Adam.
CL
We all wish (or at least most) feel like we want to be talented and likable in the light of our LO. Any negative response or diversion of attention from us as the limerent pierces like a spear. I use to think, “even if I were single what would she want with an old man like me when she could have any young stud she wanted”. Damn limerence.
I would buy the “office” breakfast or get coffee at her favorite coffee shop for the “office” just to hear a “thank you” with a smile. And I just stand there “kicking rocks” with a “aww shucks”. I know what you mean. It is debilitating and embarrassing all at the same time. The whole office knew Adam had a crush on her. They all saw right through my “generous acts” that they really were all for her.
Thank you. I don’t know what my writing style is, but thank you. Keep at you resolve to distance yourself. I know social media is the devil. I have to keep away from it myself. It is so easy with just one click. You can do this.
I am not sure if he’ll show my husband, and try to ruin my life. The messages were crazy, sad and extremely embarrassing..
Oh boy. Most likely, he will avoid you. Let him have his space. Repeat after me…
“I will leave him alone.”
Say it again
“I will leave him alone.”
I like this one, too…
“I will respect his boundaries.”
Creepy Limerent, you are in an altered state of mind. Please don’t do anything that you will regret later. This will pass. You will be okay. You must be kind and considerate of others while you wrestle with limerence.
I believe in you!
I wish I could take back the messages. It’s so hard going NC because he is at school pick up most days. I always try parking in different places, but I always run into him- even once when I picked my daughter up early. He is always friendly and polite- certainly didn’t deserve my messages.
I’ve made a huge mess of things. I never grew up. I am stuck as a loner aggressive awkward creepy teenager with no social skills.
I wish I followed the advice from DrL’s deprogramming article.
@Bewitched has some good idea also. Exercise and housework would help. Best to keep distracted.
The children’s school term starts again on Monday. I know where to go to meet my daughter without running into LO.
@CreepyLImerent.
I would add to what the others have said that limerence is a unique state. What makes limerence unique is that limerence drives the limerent person demand reciprocation from the LO.
You can love someone without demanding reciprocation of feelings.
You can like someone without demanding reciprocation of feelings.
You can lust after someone without demanding reciprocation of feelings.
You can’t limerence over someone without demanding reciprocation of feelings.
The limerent craving for reciprocation is relentless. It’s what makes limerence different (and about a thousand times more stressful) than other forms of affection. It’s what makes limerence worrisome from both a social and a mental health point of view when the feelings aren’t reciprocated by the LO. 😉
@CreepyLimerent,
I was a Creepy Limerent. Many in this forum when I began posting, pretty much told me that’s how my staring at LO probably appeared to her. I never wanted to believe it. I didn’t want to be a Creeper. But in the altered state of mind, us limerents can do some really crazy, creepy things.
I never actually disclosed to LO. In my defense, the reason why I stared at LO was because often I would catch her looking or staring at me. Not to mention a time she actually had smiled at me once, which set up incredible glimmer. This Woman was and still is God’s masterpiece.
Over time, I think she just came to resent me for how I was always trying to get her attention. When she tried to do nothing but casually avoid me in the most non-confronting way. I guess she could have turned me in to HR if I was really bugging her, (we were co-workers) but she didn’t. My heart broke because she simply wasn’t interested like I was. I’m still not completely over her.
It was unfair of me to expect so much from LO, when we weren’t really even Friends to begin with. I just saw her as a perfect Goddess who could make my life complete.
Try to keep in mind how your disclosure made LO feel. Is it any wonder why he probably reacted the way he did? The awkwardness of what ever it was you wrote.. Try to keep that thought front and center when you think or know he might be around. Perhaps that will help keep your thoughts in check and further you from going overboard.
Also maybe look into what isn’t going on or right in your marriage and family life, so that you can begin working on ways to fix those things. That could be huge and helpful in redirecting your thoughts of LO.
Hello CreepyLimerent. I am sorry you are not feeling so good. I have gone through much of what you have gone through. For example, I used to seek LO whenever I could, which I am sure lead to creepy behavior on my part. One example, trying to always seek them out in a crowd (yikes!).
Situations in which you cannot avoid LO are especially challenging when you are trying to get over this thing, as seeing LO triggers stuff. As was suggested by other members, if you have LO interactions, try to keep them as formal as possible. If you can avoid LO, just take that option. Nothing to do with LO, but if they make you feel sad afterwards, its best to not engage, to the extent possible.
From your case, it seems that LO is pretty clear in their intention, so hopefully that will help you get closure. It has been my experience that uncertainty fuels limerence.
The advice to distract yourself is pretty solid, and worth taking.
I am sure things will improve with time, hang in there.
@creepylimerent
I sent a series of pretty crazy messages to LO2 at the height of limerence, but she didn’t run away, so don’t lose hope! She definitely went quiet for a while after I sent them but then in fact it kind of re-instigated contact and we became ‘friends’. There were various twists and turns afterwards until I eventually managed to gradually disengage in a more stable manner a couple of years later, when I had myself better under control. Eventually she actually cut contact as I guess I was no longer really even being a good ‘friend’, although I didn’t tell her why I did it.
I think LOs who you know well, if they are decent people, and mostly they are (a) don’t think about you as much as you do (b) do actually care about you. I hope and want to believe that most likely it’s definitely weird for him, but not a huge issue, he feels sorry for you (as shameful as that might be for you), and he hopes that he hasn’t hurt you or led you on and thinks reduced contact might help you ‘get better’. I obviously don’t know the ins and outs, but don’t be too hard on yourself.
Thanks Lovisa,
I will leave him alone and I will respect his boundaries.
thanks for being so kind
You are very welcome, Creepy Limerent. Please read through the comments above. There is a lot of good advice up there.
I want you to notice something, too. Your LwL friends are offering support. Healing happens in community. You can lean into LwL during your recovery. I think LwL is a great distraction for you while you cope. Please read articles and interact in the comments instead of daydreaming or ruminating about your LO.
You got this!
Hey girl, read through this thread, too.
https://livingwithlimerence.com/coffeehouse-time-travel-wisdom/#comment-59804
I think it might help with your healing process. In it, we are trying to consider the feelings of the LO. I would like for you to consider how your LO feels. There are other good nuggets of wisdom to ponder in that thread.
Thanks Lovisa, checking it out now. Honestly finding it really difficult to read anything at the moment. 😢
Creepy Limerent, I’ve been where you are. I did not disclose but I was overcome with embarrassment, anger and sadness at some message interactions with LO. Took me a while to process. I had a trusted friend I was able to talk to about it which helped. Almost like going through the stages of grief, I got to the place where I actually accepted we couldn’t be friends and that I needed to stop contacting because I didn’t know what I was going to say or if I was acting in a way which showed integrity or not. I second guessed everything. I had apologised for my message and said that I was going through something and LO replied saying not to worry so I didn’t mention it again. Still ruminating and feeling humiliated but angry.
Skip forward over two weeks, LO reached out to me and we ended up chatting. Nothing was mentioned about those messages and it was a lighthearted conversation. I feel better but I have got to the point whereby I won’t instigate contact as I did before and I am putting less pressure on it. Definitely no texts. May be guilty of sending a work related message earlier but not too bothered by that.
I feel like I’ve let a lot of the limerence go, and I feel less intense for the moment.
For you, perhaps this had to happen for you to have a period of growth and reflection, and know that your feelings will subside or at least won’t feel as intense as they feel now. As my friend says, he is thinking about you much less than you are thinking about him (ouch bit true). You can only move onwards from this now.
WhoompThereItIs, you’re lucky your LO was able to forgive you for your messages. I am sure your messages must not have been so insane and crazy as mine were. I am 100% sure my LO will never talk to me again. Just you, I also realize cant be friends with my LO.
People always complain- men objectify women. I objectified my LO. I blamed my feelings on him. I was delusional, thinking he felt the same way, simply because he is friendly. I was angry because thought he was playing mind games with me..
It’s probably a good thing he thinks less about me than I do about him. I analyzed every interaction with him.. I would hate to think he did the same with me.
Of course you objectified him. He is your limerent OBJECT. Objectification is in the title.
Although maybe lucky that he was willing to move past those messages, I had no control over that. If you see any of my posts here for the past 3 weeks, I was convinced that we would never speak again and that there was no come back from this. Him reaching out was a bonus but the healing process didn’t depend on that because I didn’t think it would happen.
My lessons from this were
– I can’t control the response/situation/future
-I can only control myself and because I couldn’t trust what I would say, I have to keep my distance
-I was convinced that life would be boring without LO and that I was missing out if I didn’t speak to him. I no longer feel so strongly about this. I like his company and our conversations, but I’m not going to do anything drastic in the hope I see him, or because I think it will get his attention (progress)
– I want to be present for my family, and that means trying to take control of my thoughts.
-Some trust in LO has been damaged by this recent experience, and although feeling hurt, it helps me keep my guard up.
-signing up to Dr L’s emails were helpful and timely. Reading posts and comments on here helps but only up until the point before it becomes consuming.
-I joined the gym and feel good about focussing on my physical and mental wellbeing
My subconscious is fighting back though, as I had a romantic dream last night about him. One of the only ones I remember having. I still feel committed to the cause though and to healing. Time to regain control of our own lives again.
This too shall pass.
I remember about 2 months after she left she came by and visited the office she worked at where I met her. I was waiting on hold on the phone to talk to someone and she picked up the line and talked to me for about 10 minutes and it left me elated for weeks. Maybe months. That was over 2 years ago. She has not reached out to me since. She seemed so happy to talk to me on the phone that day. I was so hoping for that to happen again. It hasn’t. As Whoops said, as hard as it is to accept, you think about them more than they think about you.
Sometimes you have to accept someone else’s choice even though it will hurt you more than they will ever know.
“Adam, was that your only LE whilst married? Was she your only LO?”
Yes.
I think I had limerence for a young woman back in my 20’s that I fell for pretty hard. She was way above my pay grade, but I grew up with her since my teens as we went to the same church together and our parents were friends. Then one day she wasn’t just a childhood friend she was a beautiful woman. I obviously didn’t know about limerence back then but in hindsight I think it was a LE.
“Also, do you have platonic female friends?”
No not really. I small talk with my now female co-workers but I keep it pretty straight laced. Being that LO was a co-worker I am extra cautious with them.
I try to consciously (other than my wife’s family) avoid “too friendly” female contact. I inherently find it much easier, and find most in common, with women, so it is very easy for it to get out of hand. My sister in law came to visit some months back and she brought a friend of hers and we all went out bar hopping together and I found myself having to pull back because she checked off all the boxes in my, as my wife calls it, “damn rescue complex”. So I tend to steer clear of attempted platonic female friendships for my wife’s sake.
On the opposite side of the coin I would have no issue with my wife having male platonic friends. I may not trust most members of my gender but I trust her.
I only had one platonic male friend prior to meeting my husband. He was actually the one that introduced us. He disowned us both a while after, and refused an invite the wedding.
Yeah, it’s wise to steer clear of platonic friendships of the opposite sex if you’re prone to limerence. Although this is my first LE, I believe I am prone to more. Good idea- keeping it straight laced.