Note: this is an updated version of an older post.
One of the most disruptive mental traps linked to limerence is the state of indefinite tension best described as limerence limbo.
We are infatuated with our limerent object, but have settled into a routine of rumination, caution, anxiety and inaction. The only decision we have made is to wait and see if things might somehow change for the better. In the meantime, we settle into the familiar passivity of happy daydreams, pangs of regret, and a free-floating promise of a delayed future.
This condition is well summarised in a comment by Marcia:
[What] about the limbo that limerence seems to put people in? The years of decision paralysis people wade through (I’ve certainly been there), the years of ruminating over the LO without making a definitive decision? Is it part of the brain chemicals? Do they feel so good that that they trap people? I waited around far longer than I care to admit for something to happen with my LO, even though, deep down, I knew after about the first six months that nothing ever would?
It’s easy enough to understand how we get drawn into limerence – it feels amazing, and we want more of that feeling – but what factors determine whether we respond purposefully, or get stuck in limbo? Why is it that, despite knowing deep down that nothing is going to happen with LO, we don’t walk away? Is there a neurochemical basis to sticking with a lost cause? Why do we resist taking decisive action to resolve the situation one way or another? Why do we willingly keep ourselves in limbo?
Limerence limbo can be caused by a number of factors and – as with so much of limerence – our own individual experience will depend on our personal history and personality type.
Let’s work through some scenarios.
Sometimes it’s imposed on us
It’s absolutely within our powers to avoid limerence limbo, and it’s important to take responsibility for our own choices and behaviour. But, it is also true that we can get drawn into it by the conduct of our LO.
If a limerent is single, and keen to start a relationship with LO, then it’s natural to be uncertain, but optimistic and hopeful, and willing to be patient. However, if the limerent object is not free, or not consistent in their reciprocation, or gives mixed messages about their feelings, then the limerent can get trapped in a holding pattern waiting to see what will happen.
The worst scenario is a manipulative LO. Sometimes, the LO has no intention of committing, but every intention of keeping their narcissistic supply coming. This is the worst kind of limbo, because any attempt to escape countered by an LO who resists and pulls you back in, giving just enough attention and reciprocation to make you doubt your resolve to move on, because clearly there is something between you, but… what exactly?
Basically, sometimes an LO can play us. In terms of the neurochemistry, they are giving an intermittent reward that is difficult to adapt to, and resistant to extinction of the reward memory. There are plenty of dodgy LOs out there who want you trapped in limbo for their own amusement.
Sometimes it’s stalemate
A variation on the previous theme is mutual limerence between two people who are both conflicted. Here, the limbo-inducing dynamic is not caused by manipulative behaviour so much as indecisive behaviour. This is the hot/cold, push/pull dance of two people failing to decisively manage their feelings, and ineffectively attempting to sever a connection that they are addicted to.
Even worse, when one of them finds some resolve and withdraws, the other panics and attempts to pull them back in. If the first person has a rescue-fantasy problem, this is pretty much guaranteed to stress test their resilience to breaking point, at which point they start telegraphing interest again, and the panicked second limerent gets temporary relief, followed by resentment about how they have been played for a fool and then they begin to withdraw.
If this was a literal dance, the baffled spectators would stare in horrified fascination at the spectacle.
This is a different form of limerence limbo, where breaking the connection becomes a mess of false starts and relapses, rather than the passive pain of one-sided limerence.
The power of hope
Hope is very powerful. Even in despair, the light of hope can sustain us. For limerents who recognise that their feelings are not reciprocated, or at least not reciprocated with the same degree of ardour, it can be very difficult to acknowledge defeat. The death of hope is crushing.
This is another reason why unrequited limerence is hard to escape, because to declare yourself and finally settle the feelings between you, means consciously ending the hope of uncertainty. While there is still unspoken promise, there is still a chance to turn things around. Some future manoeuvre may provide a win, may persuade a lukewarm LO of your merits, may seduce.
It’s easy to convince yourself that you are just biding your time, rather than evading a decisive choice, and so keep the small flame of hope flickering for longer. Even if you don’t really believe it deep down, delay can seem like prudence. No need to rock any boats, or upset any apple carts. Patience is a virtue.
The comfort of the familiar
That brings us to probably the major factor in staying in limbo: you know what it’s like and it’s not all that bad. In the short term.
Like any habit, slipping into a state of romantic daydreams and rewarding fantasy is comfortable and familiar. Many limerents – especially, perhaps introvert limerents – use reverie for mood regulation. Fantasising about LO provides reward. It’s a lacklustre substitute for the real thing of actual reciprocation from LO, but it’s far more predictable, controllable and reliable than LO. When we feel stressed or sad or hopeless, our subconscious clicks into mood repair mode, and fires up the best mechanism for feeling good that it’s learned: a nice fantasy about reciprocation.
The neurochemistry here is different – this is likely to be about serotonin and dopamine as regulators of baseline mood. It’s rare that long-term limbo is exciting or exhilarating, it’s more like a place of security and mood stabilisation.
This is the reason why many of us spend long stretches of our adult lives in limerence limbo. It can last beyond individual LOs, it can last through marriages, it can last till we reach the autumn of our years. A stable feature of our internal world is the ability and desire to use romantic fantasy as a safe and reliable way to comfort ourselves. Like any fantasy, the desired outcome exists in some nebulous future “someday” place and time where fate brings us our dream, fulfils our hopes, but on our own terms and without us having to risk the pain of rejection or uncertainty.
Better the faint warmth of imagined love than the volatility and uncertainty of a real-life relationship.
Freeing ourselves from limbo
I’m not here to judge anyone who makes that choice. I understand it, because I lived it for significant stretches of my life. Looking back, I even suspect that some of the women I pined for would have reciprocated if only I could have overcome my fear and propositioned them. But, I’ll never know, because I chose limbo.
So, what changed? How do any of us with the urge to retreat to the safety of our inner worlds push through the fear and act?
Well, one useful countermeasure is to fight fear with fear. Yes, it’s frightening to disclose to an LO who might say no. It’s also frightening to walk away from an LO who you really want to be with, but can’t be now, in case their circumstances change in the future. It’s also frightening to think you might move too soon, or too late, or bungle your declaration in some way that means you wreck your one chance to make a good first impression. So, you need to balance that fear with a cold, hard look at the alternative.
Most of us get out of limbo by realising what we have lost, what sacrifices we have made in substituting a fruitless dream for real life. Most limbo ends with the shocking realisation of the time that’s been lost. The countless hours of thought and energy devoted to a one-sided obsession. The opportunity of other good people overlooked, of dreams delayed and productive days squandered.
You should fear wasting years on someone who doesn’t want to give themselves to you. Fight the acute fear of revealing your feelings with the long, deep regret of wasting life and the opportunity for authentic love.
Another useful strategy is more positive: make yourself the centre of your life. Not in a selfish, destructive, “I’ll do what I want!” way, but in a purposeful, hopeful and brave way. If you pursue the things you care about, and work to improve yourself, have new experiences, grow stronger, physically, mentally and spiritually (in whatever way that means to you), then you will find the faint warmth of fantasy grows ever feebler. If you live a purposeful life, the comfort of the imaginary people who live in your head no longer gives the relief it used to.
By reorienting your life towards purposeful living, other people cease to be the centre of your world and the focus of your hopes. Instead, they become welcome companions who enrich your life, rather than some phantom ideal that you pin your hopes and dreams on. And that robs the narcissists, manipulators and flakes of a lot of their power over you.
Limbo is safe, but it’s the stultifying safety of a gilded cage.
Spread your wings.
The “will these questions ever end?” bit under the photo made me laugh out loud!
And this line: “If this was a literal dance, the baffled spectators would stare in horrified fascination at the spectacle.” HILARIOUS! Like a tango gone wrong.
Funny you should mention Limerence Limbo. Yesterday I was searching for something in old emails and lo and behold accidentally found a google voice chat dialogue from 6 years ago of myself and XLO.
Wow…such witty repartee, playful chatter and clever dialogue and observations.
I felt like I was reading a script from a rom-com!
That was my life, all the time. So intellectually stimulating and fun. Except when it was awful and I was panic stricken when there were tell tale signs of an expiration date.
But reading that dialogue yesterday, no wonder I didn’t want to let that go! Making the mundane pure entertainment.
Of course the dark side was that he was likely having these dalliances of wit and whimsy with many others. I was just one of many chosen to enjoy the sport with him, and to be compartmentalized into the ‘dear friend’ category.
Fun for him….but only temporary fun for me while I hung out in Limerence Limbo.
Then the fun all came crashing down with it’s ensuing injury and despair.
I should have left the game far earlier than I did.
But how …. when you keep thinking there is ‘hope’? I have never been a quitter. There was all too many reasons from his tortured past as to why I should be patient with him. And truthfully, I rather enjoyed having this arrangement, no risk, lots of fun, and us showing each other the sparkling side of each other without the icky or grumpy or annoying side. We were just delightful all the time. I loved us! If only I could have kept my ridiculously romantic heart out of it all! But I am not, after all, an android.
But what a dangerous and unhealthy game we were playing, disguised as benign sport.
I should have made him lay his cards on the table, with a spotlight on them, or refused to play the game with him.
Or maybe he had the cards on the table but I refused to look at them because he had them partially obscured and was distracting me from taking a good hard look.
Looking at them, and really seeing them clearly, would have ended the game.
Which seemed unbearable at the time.
“When you know better, you do better.”- Maya Angelou
Answering to the Post of November 24, 2023
“It’s absolutely within our powers to avoid limerence limbo, and it’s important to take responsibility for our own choices and behavior. But, it is also true that we can get drawn into it by the conduct of our LO.”
This is very true, we have the power to free ourselves from limbo. But, in my case, if LO didn’t say those sweet little words and things and instead rejected or said something negative to me, I’d have snapped of it a long time ago. I think… Still, I comprehend the impossibility of it all (both have SOs and we’re old folk) and I’m a year in No contact. Not seeing or hearing from LO has not reduced the rumination or thoughts of the beautiful memories. It was not a fantasy, I lived the romance in all its glory, how can I forget? Everything reminds me of him. He’s my beloved, it hurts and I get mad at myself for being weak and silly, not to mention I have an SO also…which makes me feel guilty to add up to the saga…
Hope, no, none, but the dream goes on!
I do advise young and single people to go for theirs LOs, ask for a date, do not be shy, disclose! If rejected, try again with someone else, so what if you get rejected, it’s not the end of the world. Someone else will come along who will accept you. Just try. Don’t get discouraged or lazy, life is short and you have no time to waste in fantasies and ruminations. Be authentic, real.
For middle age with SOs, try doing exciting things with SOs, like a new hobby together, such as wine tasting, cooking lessons, DIY, landscaping , skiing etc. as long as it is something new to distract from LO. You must realize you don’t have a chance with LO, you’re not free, period, no hopes, so wake up and give it up!!! Don’t be stubborn… if only that was so easy. But try you must, for your own benefit and mental health and those around you. You’re stealing from them. So be nice now.
Have a wonderful weekend❤️
Yes, understand the seemingly benign sport part of it, the knowingly engaging in the dance that would horrify (and did) spectators! When instigating NC, I was told I was loved best in the group. Yeah. My romantic heart is having a terrible time letting go of the excitement of it even though the reality was a bit pathetic. In years past, My SO would come home to me watching my mood regulator, Pride & Prejudice, Colin Firth extra long version, laugh, and ask what he did wrong. I do love my SO! I, as you say, need to look at life clearly, live purposefully, and quit watching my romance movies so much! I’m quite the optimist when it comes to love!
Hope, don’t you think Mr. Darcy might have been quite horrible to live with in real life? What with his moodiness, and so forth? When they settled into domesticity it might not have been nearly as romantic. 😉
Who care about the moodiness? She’d have been with Colin Firth and his wet shirt! 🙂 Surely that could be entertaining for at least a year.
Marcia! 😹😹😹
At least!
When girls talk Pride and Prejudice, they all seem to remember Mr Darcy and his wet shirt. I must have napped through that scene in the series – I honestly can’t remember it!
Sammy,
How could you NOT remember the wet shirt scene? Colin Firth is so hot, he practically burns through the film on which he is printed! 🙂
Not remember the wet shirt?!?! I well remember very first time I saw that scene. It was perfect! That and the sweet looks across the piano. Yes, I could be entertained for at least a year or two. My SO is a bit serious, so I get that about Mr. Darcy 😁
@Marcia and Hope. I might be gay, but I’m still a man and still miss all the subtle cues women seem to automatically pick up on in interpersonal situations. (Though I try to read a lot to make up the difference).
Mr Darcy? You mean Mr Darcy was the love interest? You’re kidding me, right? I thought he was the gardener who wanted to chop up the old piano for firewood. He kept interrupting those poor young ladies during their interminable weekly music lessons! (Wink).
Sammy,
“I might be gay, but I’m still a man and still miss all the subtle cues women seem to automatically pick up on in interpersonal situations.”
That’s funny. My best friend in my 20s was a gay man and he taught me how to read cues. Taught me how to read subtext, when someone was flirting with me, coming on to me, etc. I had NO clue. I could give him about a three- or four-sentence description about some guy I liked and he could almost always tell me exactly what was going to happen with him.
The above comment is from Marcia. I can’t spell. I am trying to watch a movie and type. 🙂
“The above comment is from Marcia. I can’t spell. I am trying to watch a movie and type. 🙂”
It’s all good, Marcia. Actually, I wonder if us limerent folks are worse-on-average at reading other people, irrespective of our sex, orientation, etc, etc? We seem to get it so very wrong much of the time…
Honestly, that straight dude I fell for was/is a mystery. Still haven’t worked out what makes him tick (and am no longer trying, thank goodness). I’d like to believe he was a horrible, manipulative person, etc. But I think he was, like us, just a nice well-meaning sort who didn’t have a clue about signals and/or appropriate boundaries. Ah well. C’est la vie.
Sammy,
“It’s all good, Marcia. Actually, I wonder if us limerent folks are worse-on-average at reading other people, irrespective of our sex, orientation, etc, etc? We seem to get it so very wrong much of the time…”
Well, actually, I have become very good at reading whether someone is interested now. I can also tell when men find other women attractive. (Your side is not all that subtle.) 🙂 What I am not good at is moving on from someone who is giving off signals of interest and not acting on them. I always come up with a million excuses because I like the person and I really want something to happen. But the bottom line is that they reasons why don’t matter. All that matters is the end result — this guy isn’t moving on his interest.
@Marcia. “What I am not good at is moving on from someone who is giving off signals of interest and not acting on them.”
Ah. I see what you mean. That’s a tough one.
Sammy,
“Ah. I see what you mean. That’s a tough one.”
But it really isn’t if you think about it logically (hard to do when you are limerent). I had a friend who reconnected with a guy she knew in high school. They lived a considerable distance from each other, but despite his protestations that he wanted to meet up in person after months of calling and texting, she had yet to see him face-to-face. (This wasn’t a money or time off work issue.) I don’t know if he was with somebody else or wasn’t’ serious about things moving forward, but something was off. All you really have to do is sit back and watch what somebody does. The answers are all right in front of you.
@Marcia. I’m glad we’re having this chat today. In the past, I’ve read your posts, and the posts of a few other women on the blog, whose usernames escape me at present, and I’ve read the words, but the message hasn’t quite sunk in. Today, by talking to you, the message has sunk in a little bit deeper I feel.
I may be on the spectrum (autism), which just means I have an “extreme male brain”. I have difficulties interpreting non-verbal body language accurately. So, in other words, any limerent experience that goes bad for me, I can basically blame on myself. I’m socially incompetent, etc, etc. Because I can plausibly blame myself for any misunderstandings, I feel fairly neutral toward rogue LOs. (Autism is both a blessing and a curse clearly).
However, in the case of people such as yourself, people who do have a good grasp of body language, emotional nuance, etc, there does seem to be some shared blame for limerent episodes gone wrong. Finally, I understand why some people struggling with limerence may feel intense anger toward their LO, because the manipulation that has taken place is arguably real, and not just a case of one person (i.e. Sammy) projecting fantasies onto the other party. etc.
It’s true you can judge a man better by his actions than his words – unless he’s giving you mixed signals with his actions too, that is. Your potentially “passive approach” to limerence is certainly interesting – do nothing, only wait and see what happens. In time, the true character of your man will come to light. Sounds like an ancient Chinese proverb almost.
I think I understand now what some women mean when they say they want to “go there” (declare feelings to LO or make a move). They’ve apparently gotten a green or orange light from him. Awkward! Really, he’s the one who’s meant to seek a green light from the woman, according to traditional gender roles.
It’s probably easier to “reason oneself out of limerence” if it’s all been in one’s head. If LO has shown genuine interest though at some point, and you’re socially astute enough to pick up on that, then it can be harder to go the logic route – because, look, you’ve got irrefutable evidence that so-and-so cares, etc. Or at least pretended to care for one hot little minute before it all turned to goop.
I realise female limerents don’t entirely dream up all their positive interactions with male LOs. Some of the sexual signals, for example, are real. And it makes the situation that much harder to moralise about with any kind of certainty. Life is so, so complicated.
This is why I love being an Aspie – most of the time I’m oblivious to all the drama going on around me. But you’ve helped me see limerence from another angle. It’s not all frivolous drama – people’s emotions are deeply invested in these delicate negotiations, or exquisitely awkward dances that Dr. L talks about above.
Thank you for helping me see the situation more clearly from a female point of view. 🙂
Sammy,
“Your potentially “passive approach” to limerence is certainly interesting – do nothing, only wait and see what happens. ”
I wasn’t passive at all. I maneuvered to get him alone and made the first physical move. I’ll make it clear I’m interested. I’m not going to do it over and over again. I mean, how tacky is that? 🙂 It was up to him to pick up the ball and throw it back to me. The fact that he didn’t told me everything I needed to know.
“I think I understand now what some women mean when they say they want to “go there” (declare feelings to LO or make a move). ”
What else do you propose? Staying in limbo forever? I don’t know about you, but I find ongoing hesitation very unsexy.
“you’ve got irrefutable evidence that so-and-so cares, etc. Or at least pretended to care for one hot little minute before it all turned to goop.”
What do you mean by evidence? Flirting and sexual tension are not evidence, IMO. Going out on dates is proof. Now, if you went on several dates with the person and he ghosted you or if he kept reappearing and disappearing, that would be confusing.
Interesting conversation and very relevant to me. I know from his subconscious signals that my LO feels similarly to me. As you say Sammy, that makes it so very hard to choose to let go! I really like shy introverts, so hesitancy (=barriers & uncertainty) only inflames my limerence. But you make such a good point Marcia, to escape the the limbo we must either declare our self and give up if that changes nothing, or just give up. The problem is that disclosing has other possible side effects e.g. job, work relationship, harm to LOs state of mind, etc.
I must consider that the balance of evidence with my LO says that he feels similarly but will never act. I must say this to myself over and over until my idiot brain really gets it!
Allie,
I think you have to ask yourself what you getting out of staying in limbo. Or what you are getting out of being in limerence, for that matter. My situation was different from yours in that I wasn’t married, but what can I conclude about myself that I essentially put my life on hold for a person who so clearly didn’t want anything real from me? I had two short-term flings with other men during my LE and went on a handful of dates, but my heart wasn’t in it. And I knew the short-term flings would be short-term when they started. So, deep down, I must have not wanted anything real from anyone. When I read some of the posts on here, I think that people don’t want to know the truth and, deep down, don’t really want things to progress with the LO. They like the flirtation, excitement and distance.
Limbo = hope + pleasurable ruminations + enjoying contact with LO + not suffering the pain of letting go (or worse, leaving my project/role to go NC). The price of that is the never ending effort of trying (and often failing) to manage the intrusive thoughts and my diminished enthusiasm for usual pastimes.
Yes I can see that limbo is far more harmful if you are single and were looking for something real in the first place.
“people deep down, don’t really want things to progress with the LO. They like the flirtation, excitement and distance.”
Yes I know what you mean. Not me though, not that there is any flirtation anyway. I want things to progress. I now have a little room to manoeuvre in my marriage without having to deceive SO. But am guessing LO doesn’t, and therefore would never take the risk. I keep thinking I should see what happens post-covid when he returns to the office. But I really can’t see anything changing even then.
Allie,
“Yes I can see that limbo is far more harmful if you are single and were looking for something real in the first place.”
I think limerence is harmful whether you are married or not. What if your LO is looking for something real from you? (This is a generic “you.”) And for you, it’s just an amusement. I guess if you are on the same page … but that would take disclosure. 🙂
” Not me though, not that there is any flirtation anyway.”
I’m confused. There’s been no flirtation ?
” I want things to progress.”
Prove it. 🙂 Idk. I think the hell of this covid year has changed me. Friends I thought would be supportive have been glaringly MIA, and the people who have shown up … well, it’s a been a series of texts about where to buy toilet paper. I’ve discovered that I need people who can show up AND be emotionally present, which is the opposite of limerence. I say this from the vantage point of having complete NC with my LO for a year. I just think that, at the end of the day, my LO was like the Wizard of Oz …. pull back the curtain and there’s nothing there. (Or the Wizard is actually a short, ineffectual little man who’s all hot air. 🙂 )
No flirting, just a mutually supportive professional relationship with masked underlying feelings where the mask very occasionally slips to reveal a glimpse of what is going on underneath. I am incapable of flirting with an LO, neither of us are the flirty type and we are in a professional work environment so would be viewed inappropriate.
“I need people who can show up AND be emotionally present”… not so much to asks really is it. But surprisingly hard to find these days.
Allie,
“I am incapable of flirting with an LO, neither of us are the flirty type and we are in a professional work environment so would be viewed inappropriate.”
Hmm … I would think that would make the flirting all the more fun. 🙂 That was one of things my LO brought to the table … he said the most deliciously inappropriate things to me. His impishness made the boring, staid work environment tolerable.
Your LO sounds like a moderately narcissistic tease. Hate that.
(But I can see how that would be fun for a while… ;-))
Allie,
“Your LO sounds like a moderately narcissistic tease.”
He was.
But that is my trigger. Someone talking a scandalously or anarchistically. I know plenty of people who follow all the rules. I don’t need to know more. 🙂
“Interesting conversation and very relevant to me. I know from his subconscious signals that my LO feels similarly to me. As you say Sammy, that makes it so very hard to choose to let go! I really like shy introverts, so hesitancy (=barriers & uncertainty) only inflames my limerence.”
@Allie. Yes, and I guess that’s what makes Lizzie and Darcy’s fictional romance so enthralling. Nothing much happens for most of the story, but complicated emotional stuff is bubbling away beneath the surface and we catch little glimpses of it here and there.
It limerence is happening between two shy, guarded introverts, then who knows what either of them is really feeling? The limerent dance could go on indefinitely. And Darcy-like hesitancy can be extremely cute!
On the other hand, if one or both disclosed, and the feeling proved mutual, the whole thing could be over in a heartbeat.
“He said the most deliciously inappropriate things to me.”
@Marcia. I know I shouldn’t feel intrigued. I know intrigue is an inappropriate response to what you’ve just revealed. But I am now deeply intrigued by your LO.
In terms of Pride and Prejudice, would you class him as more of a Wickham than a Darcy? 😛
Hi Sammy,
“In terms of Pride and Prejudice, would you class him as more of a Wickham than a Darcy?”
Wichkam. Insincere flirting. One time he made reference to a room in our workplace and that we’d lock all the doors and disappear. I almost fell through the floor. Another time I bought a lamp for my office that gave off a very low amount of light. It had leopard print shade. 🙂 He walked in and turned off the overhead light so that only the lamp was on. The dude was professional. And someone being inappropriate or anti-establishment or even slightly impish is my trigger.
“One time he made reference to a room in our workplace and that we’d lock all the doors and disappear. I almost fell through the floor. Another time I bought a lamp for my office that gave off a very low amount of light. It had leopard print shade. 🙂 He walked in and turned off the overhead light so that only the lamp was on.”
Yes, I can imagine Wickham doing/saying both of those cheeky things around a thrilled and flustered (and slightly suspicious) Lizzie, all the while wearing a smirk on his face! 😛
Sammy,
One time I saw him several feet head of me, walking toward me in the hall at work, and as we passed each other, without any sort of prompting, we both reached out and clasped hands. It was a beautiful moment. But like everything with him, it was just a moment that had no connection to anything else and ultimately meant nothing.
“One time I saw him several feet head of me, walking toward me in the hall at work, and as we passed each other, without any sort of prompting, we both reached out and clasped hands. It was a beautiful moment. But like everything with him, it was just a moment that had no connection to anything else and ultimately meant nothing.”
@Marcia. Undoubtedly, it meant nothing. However, for the moment to even occur at all suggests you two must have been “in sync” in some way in terms of body language/emotion, etc. I mean, you didn’t bump into each other or indifferently stroll past each other.
I don’t know what the word is, but your body language was in sync with his body language. Is that sexual attraction or mere friendship and liking or just two people being a bit quirky? I dunno. I can understand if you thought there was some mental connection between you after that – this sort of mirroring doesn’t happen in every social interaction. I guess it’s a kind of “chemistry”?
Reflexive empathy. Maybe that’s what it’s called. When one person matches another person’s body language to create/cement a bond.
Sammy,
“…this sort of mirroring doesn’t happen in every social interaction. I guess it’s a kind of “chemistry”?”
I felt tremendous sexual chemistry for him, and I value that feeling highly as I feel it rarely. But what I’ve learned is that just because you feel that doesn’t mean the other person (if they also feel something) values it or will act on it. And it doesn’t predict in any way how the relationship is going to be.
That’s got to be one of the key lessons from limerence. Fireworks won’t heat your home.
But they are very pretty.
Dr. L,
“That’s got to be one of the key lessons from limerence. Fireworks won’t heat your home.”
Your comment about fireworks reminds me of an article I read that discusses what women want: “On the one hand is the desire for stability, intimacy, and security—picture the flame on the burner of a gas stove: controlled, utilitarian, domesticated, and good for making dinner. On the other hand is the need to feel totally, uncontrollably desired, the object of raw, primal lust—a house on fire.”
The description of a stable relationship versus limerence.
True, but it’s not about the settling part, it’s about the getting there that is so nice. That point when all misunderstandings are sorted out and love flows freely and effortlessly. Sigh… Then comes real life… He is so serious isn’t he?
No, Jaideux, you don’t understand. The astonishing power of Lizzie’s transformative love remade him into a perfect husband.
We all know that’s how it works 🙂
Oh yes of course Dr. L! How could I dare to spoil the mirage of the fantasy! 🤣
Ooh! Ooh!
I have an idea! DrL can publish the LwL series of “Bodice Ripper” penny dreadfuls complete with a Fabio clone on the covers! He could shoot for a Netflix series but “Bridgerton” may have beat him to it.
Scharnhosrt
“He could shoot for a Netflix series but “Bridgerton” may have beat him to it.”
And do you notice how the narrative is always of the handsome, romantic lead who could have anyone but is transfixed by the maybe not conventionally pretty but plucky heroine, discards all his other options, and becomes fixated on her because she’s not throwing herself at him like all the others? Because she challenges him. It does not work that way. 🙂
Full disclosure: I’ve never watched “Bridgerton.”
My Anglophile-wannabe wife was looking for something to watch until the new season of “The Crown” shows up on Netflix. She wasn’t too keen on its take on the period and when our daughter told her there was a lot of relatively gratuitous nudity and sex, my wife passed on it. She went for “Call the Midwife,” which I watch with her.
As for, “… and becomes fixated on her because she’s not throwing herself at him like all the others? Because she challenges him. It does not work that way.” Actually, it can. https://livingwithlimerence.com/limerence-and-the-friendzone/#comment-1484
Actually, it was LO #2. When I told the therapist that story, I said that LO #2 took me on out of pity. The therapist said that was wrong. The therapist said that whatever LO #2 felt for me, pity wasn’t in the mix. The therapist said my response pissed LO #2 off and she saw me as a challenge.
Scharnhorst,
Are you a man or a woman? I can’t tell from your name. I wrote that men don’t like challenging women. Not that women don’t like challenging men. And if you are a man, was your wife challenging? An LO can be challenging because an LO is a fantasy but that is different than an SO.
Marcia,
It looks like I misinterpreted your post. I thought of “challenging” as a verb, vice an adjective, sorry.
I’m male.
I’ve never pursued a woman just to prove I could.
LO #2 said she didn’t like me when we started dating. She said I was cocky and arrogant. I asked her why she kept dating me. She said I was “relentlessly persistent” and “at times, you can be irresistibly cute.” My wife said something similar. She said, I was older, established, self-confident, and knew what I wanted and I wanted her. I asked what brought her around. She said, “I liked it.”
LO #2 could have been my wife. I proposed to her. Later, after my wife got over her initial hesitation, our relationship fell into place like dominos. It just did. We’ve had our problems but asking my wife to marry me was the best decision I ever made.
scharnhorst,
You are telling me what the women said about you. I’m saying that most men don’t want to pursue a woman who is giving off signs that she dislikes him or that she has to be won over, like Elizabeth Bennett does with Mr. Darcy in “Pride and Prejudice. ” Yet this is a common trope in romantic novels or movies. The hot man who can have anybody he wants but he goes after the one woman who, at least initially, doesn’t want him or isn’t overly impressed with him. As a general rule, I think men pursue women who give off very clear signs of interest, and usually very clear signs in terms of how the woman sees it. She feels she is waving a banner. 🙂 )
Marcia,
“I’m saying that most men don’t want to pursue a woman who is giving off signs that she dislikes him or that she has to be won over, like Elizabeth Bennett does with Mr. Darcy in “Pride and Prejudice. ”
Point conceded.
The woman you describe is probably not most men’s preferred demographic.
Scharnhorst,
“The woman you describe is probably not most men’s preferred demographic.”
Most men’s preferred demographic is the woman who says yes. 🙂 I joke about it but that really is the case. Men have to pick a woman from among the women who say yes and woman have to pick men from among the men who ask us out and keep showing up. It sounds a bit clinical, and it is .
I’m finding “Bridgerton” a bit of a disappointment. My mood regulator can’t be too predictible or formulated. Just like in real life, ha, there needs to be an element of delightful surprise in there somewhere.
I did just finish a helpful book called, the Anatomy of an Affair. Even though this close call was no where near that, it did a good job of explaining why we are so vulnerable at different times of our lives to the possibility of others because of timing and past. I learned that I needed to book the weekend getaway with my SO myself as he is not going to spontaneously come charging into the living room on his white horse and rescue me from the TV remote and the 20th viewing of Persuasion… So I did…
Brava! May you have the ultimate romantic getaway!
Thank you! 😊
Two years of limbo and although my LO knew I was struggling to move on, he’d do and say enough to keep me hooked.
Very manipulative.
I wish I had found this site about two years ago. My instincts were urging me to break free. I took steps but not consistently.
Yes, our LOs are interesting and engaging. They can also be self-absorbed users.
I’ve tried to take positive lessons from meeting the wrong man at the wrong time.
It’s been a terrible waste of time. More and more, I’m finding it easier to view him through a negative lens.
Thank you for the fantastic post, Dr. L. I’ve also noticed that how someone behaves with you in the beginning … is how the relationship dynamic will stay. Whether it’s a romantic relationship or a friendship, people show you who they are. A new friend who demonstrates unreliable on inconsistent behavior does not suddenly become someone you can count on (or at least count on for very long). It’s the same with an LO. An inconsistent, flaky LO would act that way in a relationship.
How about this: limbo going on 4 solid years. Amazingly enough, we both remained single through out our little flings, including the ones with each other. I have been unable to move on because the mofo remained single. So even though he couldn’t commit to me all this time (his words, yet no real explanation given), I have been obsessing over the fact that he is STILL single. I know exactly why I have been single and that’s because he’s the man of my dreams (I’m way pass the fantasy of it all, I truly love the man despite all his imperfections shortcomings and negative traits) and this kills me. If I’m not the one who he can commit to, why hasn’t he already found someone? THIS is the reason my limbo or shall I call it hell exists. It’s my default state of being. Imagine? After four years I still check his social media (how else would I have known he’s single, as we barely speak these days lol), I often get angry with myself that his well being still matters to me, I utilize every opportunity to maintain loosely in touch and each day/month/year that passes I wonder if I will take this feeling to my grave. I just CANNOT foresee my obsession ending. Purposeful feeling? I struggle with this immensely. I do so well in other areas of my life, this limerance has hooked into me and I’ve never have gone through anything remotely similar in my entire life and I’m nearing 50. Kids, I just might die this way.
Anxious Soul,
I think the only way to do it is to completely cut him out of your life. My LE went on longer than yours, and the only thing that has made me feel better was to quit the job in which I had to see him every day. (I had to get away from him. He was never going to stop flirting with me.) I have no contact with him. I don’t check up on him on social media. There are a couple of mutual acquaintances we share who I could ask about him … I never do. It’s been a year, and I think I feel about 50% better. But it finally took me saying to myself — enough is enough. Would part of me like to see him again? Yes, of course. But then there’s the other part of me that realizes he has made no effort to contact me, which speaks volumes. It wasn’t the answer I wanted, but it is an answer.
Marcia, you are absolutely right.
Soul, no contact is the only way. I’ve been going through what you have for only two years, but it has been torture. Uncertainty and his desire to keep me hanging on has made my life miserable. We are both single. There is a distance factor, but that’s just an excuse on his end. I have had other men in my life, other lovers. But he has been first and foremost. Finding this site has helped me realize that, for me, and for all of us, is due to chemicals. It’s not love.
I tried to tell myself many times that checking his social media was harmless. It may not start the process over again the way texting/calling does, but it’s close enough.
I understand the fear, the loss. I have been worried all this time that I will never find someone I can connect with the way I’ve connected with him. Maybe not. But I am sure as hell going to try.
The highs have been so joyful. But the lows after… Definitely withdrawal. Definitely not worth it. Definitely not love
Beth,
“But he has been first and foremost.”
In another post, you said, “My therapist described him as “broken.” She said he would drag me down. Like my dad, who had my mom to care for him.”
That could explain your LO’s glimmer and why other lovers come up short. Has your therapist gone into your background?
Check out https://sharischreiber.com/do-you-love-to-be-needed/ [I know, I link this a lot] Also, search the site for “glimmer” and read those.
What do you know of your LO’s background?
@Scharnhorst
I’ve self-analyzed for months.
I realized a few months in during a conversation with him that I needed to be needed. Part of the reason my 20+ years marriage thrived was because we had children. Between a career and children, I felt very needed and necessary.
I also felt guilty about leaving my intelligent, introverted ex, but he has a rich life and coping skills.
(We were already separated when I met LO.)
Not only was my LO also intelligent and witty, he was lonely. It was clear that he needed a partner and we bonded so easily. Our talks were deep and about everything.
During the conversation I referred to above, he told me that during bad days, he would think of me and he knew that I cared about him. What a balm for my soul! He would say things like this on a regular basis to keep me attached when he either didn’t have the inclination or the capability to be in a relationship with me, maybe not with anyone.
He doesn’t contact me now, in large part because I told him that it’s too difficult for me. He and I both knew that my extra, extra caring for him was not healthy.
I’ve often felt that if he had ended things early in the relationship, rather than keep me hooked, I would be OK. Or, if we had tried for a relationship and it hadn’t worked out, which it probably would not have, I would have been OK. It was the uncertainty and the distance, two barriers that Dr. L talks about, that really pulled me in. Plus physically, I like his type and of course the fact that he was lonely and needed someone in his life. Catnip for this limerent!
@Beth,
LO #4 said similar things to me. My catnip was an unhappy, crying woman who confided in me and told me I made her feel better. It’s powerful. LO #2 didn’t create those feelings, she brought old feelings to the surface.
A long time ago, the therapist said that I might have gotten the best from LO #2 that she was capable of giving me. That sentiment didn’t mean much at the time but, later on, when I started digging into things, it started to mean a lot more.
It helped open things up for me. Now, I can look back and see that there were things I needed to learn and LO #2 taught me some of them. We were what we each needed at the time and when that time was up, we could move on. It was very hard. It took me twenty years to appreciate what LO #2 taught me. I learned so much from her, good things and bad things. I think I’m where I am today in no small part because of the time I spent with her. She contributed to two of the best years of my pre-married life and, probably, the single worst year of my life to date. Losing my uncle, my great-grandmother, and my mother in a 5 month span (1974) didn’t hurt as bad as relinquishing LO #2. But, our time has long passed and we don’t belong together.
Maybe you and your LO were what you both needed at the time. If he truly is broken, maybe you got the best from him that he could give you. Maybe there are some real positive things that you can take away from all this and leverage them toward your happiness.
Maybe that’s how you frame a potential goodbye…you given him everything you had and you have nothing more to give.
I understand the part about NC, and let me clarify then- I’ve essentially been in it for 2 years because that’s how long I haven’t seen him in person. Other forms of engagement are also very rare, maybe a text here and there every few months. So it’s nothing. Can’t say it made a difference in my case. I’d argue, it prolongs the agony even further.
By NC, I mean nothing. No texts. No FB. Even seeing his FB update pulls me back.
And I have to tell you it was very difficult. He and I were part of several online groups. I found a lot of support in those groups but I had to cut myself off from anything connected to him. Because it would only lead to thoughts of him.
Of course my thoughts of him don’t end. Sometimes it’s so painful that I almost double over. My eyes fill with tears. But after finding this site and learning about Limerence, I feel more determined.
Anxious Soul,
And please keep in mind: It does not take someone years to show up in a meaningful way in your life. What you have with this man is what it will always be. I know it’s a hard pill to swallow, but a guy who wants to be with you will make that very clear. Otherwise, it’s just flim flam.
Anxious Soul,
I’m in NC at the moment, but a text from LO will set me on a spin for at least a day, often more. I think the power that we often invest in LOs often makes even the most minor contact irrationally potent.
I suppose hence the distinction between LC and NC…
I cracked briefly and posted happy birthday on my LOs FB page. Felt weird for 2-3 days after, out-of-sorts… literally I’d just posted ‘Happy birthday [his name]’. But it was enough. No reply to it made me sad. But nobody else got a reply either… irrational. But there you are I guess.
AS,
” I have been unable to move on because the mofo remained single.”
Do you seriously believe this? Do you really think that if the next time you checked his FB page there was a picture of your LO and his new wife taken at a luau on their honeymoon, you’d think ““Free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty I’m free at last (Nelson Mandela)” and fire up Match?
Or, would you feel like you’d been gut-punched and “He could have had ME!
What’s she got that I haven’t got? What did she offer him that I didn’t? What could I have said or done differently to make him want me?”
Those thoughts can last for decades and pop up at really inconvenient times, trust me. But, embracing them is a choice. Get yourself a bottle of good booze, turn the lights down, and queue up Adele (or whatever drops you through the floor.) Make it a habit and you can die that way.
What’s your “fairy-tale-ending” to this? Can you really see yourself coming home to him, waking up next to him and growing old with him? Do you see yourself on the beach in Hawaii with him?
My LO was never someone I would have bonded with under normal circumstances. My reinforcement lately has been picturing him in my everyday life. We were never going to work.
Answering your question- yes, I would be utterly gutted to find out he’s married, had a child, etc. Will I think “what could I have done differently??” Of course.
Will this pop up for decades and make me emotionally stunted for life? Seems like it to me but please, tell me your story.
“Get yourself a bottle of good booze, turn the lights down, and queue up Adele (or whatever drops you through the floor.) Make it a habit and you can die that way.”
I think I’ll die this way then. I’ve been living on booze and permanent state of melancholy and nostalgia for years. What’s another 5,10 years until I croak?
What could he offer me? Himself? I’m attracted to his personality above all. This isn’t lust. I’m way pass that stage. I actually love him. For who he is.
That’s your prerogative. The pursuit of happiness is a choice. Nothing says you’ll find happiness even if you do pursue it.
Years ago, I thought LO #2 had a pathological aversion to happiness. The closer she got to it, the more it scared the living s–t out of her.
Post-breakup, LO #2 said, “I just want to stop feeling miserable all the time.” I told her that I didn’t understand. She was where she wanted to be, doing what she wanted to do, and sleeping with who she chose to sleep with (not me by this point). I asked who was making her miserable? She hung up on me. Early on, I told her that if she didn’t figure some things out, she had the potential to go through life as a very unhappy person. She didn’t like that much, either.
She said she wanted to stop feeling miserable but when she had opportunities to change, she didn’t.
But, in the grand scheme of things, between being happy and unhappy, happy is better.
Song of the Day (redux): “Take Me for a Little While” -Dave Edmunds (19790
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFN9mCLOAMY
“I’ve got to stop it, there should be a law
Cause every time you put me down, I want you more
Oh, I feel so helpless, and it ain’t funny
Cause deep inside I know you’re never gonna love me”
AS,
My story is scattered all around LwL. Is there something specific you want to know?
Thank you for your reply above about the lessons you’ve taken from LO #2.
I’m trying to reframe my experience. I care about him, of course, but I could no longer put my concerns for him above my mental health. It was crushing me. The pain was mental, physical. It continues today.
The pain of being away from him will probably always hurt. I hope it lessens as time goes on.
“My story is scattered all around LwL…”
There’s ONE story in all of that?
😉
Some lives are too magisterial to be contained.
Ouch…
Meant with genuine affection, Scharn. Sorry if that didn’t translate.
I’ve heard the word but not in that context. As far as I know, I’ve never had that adjective applied to me.
I had to look it up. 🙂
One thing I have noticed in posts about peoples’ LEs is the LONG and complicated backstory. Relationships aren’t supposed to be this complicated. A relationship is bad when you have to go over every detail of what the other person said and did with a friend. If things are going well, you don’t have to tell the friend much of anything at all. That’s the test — the less you need to talk about it, the better it is.
Marcia,
No, it’s supposed to take work, of course, but a good relationship should not cause so much anxiety. There is an underlying feeling of love and support that is present for both.
Beth,
Getting together shouldn’t be this complicated. You like each other? You move forward. I don’t know the specifics of your case, but if you (the universal you) are waiting around for someone for months (or heaven help years) and you are both single and you aren’t together, you aren’t going to be. Or if the other person is not available and is giving you vague promises they will be available in the future but makes no steps to change his/her situation, again, it ain’t happening. The universe is not waving red flags but dropping a piano on your head. I ignored the piano for way too long. 🙂
Good point Marcia,
Definitely my LEs have all been very dramatic (from my perspective) but I bet that’s really common. By definition almost if you have a suitor, and a sought after other, and barriers and uncertainty… then how could it be otherwise?
Again, internally speaking. The outside world could well see it as rather banal..!
I know my friends roll their eyes a bit when during an LE I mention my LO, because in reality the right course of action is blindingly obvious (long story short; leave it alone) to everybody but the limerent!
Thomas,
“I know my friends roll their eyes a bit when during an LE I mention my LO, because in reality the right course of action is blindingly obvious (long story short; leave it alone) to everybody but the limerent!”
Yes.
They just don’t understand, Thomas. I just finished binging on George Michael interviews and he too was a tortured soul. Never got over his first love, Anselmo. I loved that man.
Anxious Soul,
“I just finished binging on George Michael interviews and he too was a tortured soul. Never got over his first love, Anselmo. I loved that man.”
I’m a big fan, too, but that isn’t true. Yes, the first love was a big one for him, but he had two other long-term, serious partners. If you read about writer Gore Vidal, he always said he met love of his life in high school. They had a brief, one-time sexual tryst when they were both 17. And then the young man was killed in WW2. Gore went on to have a serious partner for half a century. And to me, the whole thing was kind of sad. He idealized someone he barely knew … while real love was right next to him his whole life.
@Marcia. So, um, you don’t want me to start reading you the full-length novel version of what supposedly happened (or should have happened)? 😛
Sammy,
If you ever read books about writing, they all say the same thing about backstory in a novel … it stops the action dead in its tracks. You want to keep the story moving. What is happening NOW …. 🙂 So if you have a new adventure with your new LO … did you two go for a drink? Was a lustful moment exchanged? I would love to hear about that. Or even more stories about half-dressed encounters at the gym. 🙂
@Marcia. I hear what you’re saying loud and clear. Incidentally, I did try to write a novel once on an unrelated subject. It was all backstory and no action. “This is what So-and-So’s great-great grandfather did back in the day, etc”. Sad but true – I never got around to the plot.
Song of the Day: “Handle With Care” – Traveling Wilburys (1989)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSIhPQknJjI
“I’m so tired of being lonely
I still have some love to give
Won’t you show me that you really care?”
“A variation on the previous theme is mutual limerence between two people who are both conflicted. Here, the limbo-inducing dynamic is not caused by manipulative behaviour so much as indecisive behaviour. This is the hot/cold push/pull dance of two people failing to decisively manage their feelings, and ineffectively attempting to sever a connection that they are addicted to.
Even worse, when one of them finds some resolve and withdraws, the other panics and attempts to pull them back in. If the first person has a rescue-fantasy problem, this is pretty much guaranteed to stress test their resilience to breaking point, at which point they start telegraphing interest again, and the panicked second limerent gets temporary relief, followed by resentment about how they have been played for a fool and then they begin to withdraw.”
It never ceases to amaze me how accurately you can describe exactly what I’ve experienced. But I’m done with it. Attempt she may, but I will not go down that road again. I wasted nearly two years of my life. Never again.
It’s painful, isn’t it, B?
I admire your resolve and it sounds as if it is the right decision.
My LO decided he did not want a long distance relationship but expected us to maintain the same kind of intimacy. I was hurt, told him so, then went NC after that. We got back in touch but he was obviously angry at my initial decision for NC.
We did a push-pull dance for months after that. I believe by then I had fallen into limerence. After a year of this, I went NC. We got back in touch but the extreme high/cripplingly painful lows made me realize that NC is the only way.
I learned what limerence was about a week ago. For some reason, knowing that it’s biological and how it happened has helped me.
Now to work on rumination.
So grateful for this site!
You can make a second career out of reconciling limerence with Personality Disorders, Attachment Theory, and co-dependence underpinned by it’s neuroscience. But, it’s really interesting and it all makes sense.
During these months of inner turmoil, I read about attachment disorders, personality disorders. I was looking for any information to help. At least it has a name and almost all of the signs are there. I am astonished at how long it has lasted. But I’m not surprised. And I can easily see that someone could fall into this pit for months, years and decades.
B…your comment resonates so much with me, what make this dance even harder is when the mutual limerence is between 2 coworkers. The indecisive behavior and not being able to manage the feelings is a perfect storm for a disaster, yet something still fuels the need and or constant excitement and false reward system. My problem is that I still don’t stick to my own boundaries and set myself up for failure. She is my coworker and reports to me. It feels to me that she’s got a better grip on and is able to pull back, but she also holds the power and control the communication.
I’m still on that rocky road, and reading this blog provides so much value. However, removing yourself from limerence is not that easy and when NC is not an option, setting boundaries becomes much more important.
Charlie,
I know exactly what you are talking about because I did the limerence dance for years with someone, but from the vantage point I have now (being on the tail end of disillusionment), I realize now there was ultimately nothing going on between us. It was just some flaccid flirtation that didn’t mean anything. We weren’t in a relationship. We weren’t having an affair. So I got all worked up … over nothing.
Me three… I am doing the dance still but remotely currently. I am your opposite number Charlie, my LO is a married co-worker that I report to. I am also married but there is a small degree of flexibility in my marriage. Not sure if it is mutual limerence but I believe he has had feelings for me for as long as I have for him (1+ year).
We have both always maintained solid professional boundaries but it makes little difference, the hidden feelings show themselves very subtly to someone that is looking closely enough and I believe we both know about the other… in fact we knew pretty much straight away. But nothing has ever been said. I am not indecisive and would do the wrong thing given the chance, but the professional barrier stops me acting on it, and this awful Covid distancing excuses my choosing limbo. He plays the push/pull game a little, but unwittingly.
“she’s got a better grip on and is able to pull back, but she also holds the power and control the communication”
Very interesting. I am better at hiding my feelings than my LO. I now wonder if he thinks the same as you about that. Or the same as Marcia.
You have been working together for a year and nothing has ever been said? It will never be said (unless you say something). Limerence, to me, is a permanent state of LA LA Land. I guess I just don’t get it because most of of the people who write in already have somebody … who is real. When I look back on me LE, I just ask myself: What was I thinking? Why was I willing to pin so much hope on someone who had given me … nothing. There was no big love affair. There was no big romance. He was aware of my feelings (I threw myself at him) and he had PLENTY of time to follow through. If I do decide to get serious with someone in the future, I want to avoid people like me. 🙂 Getting fixated on a totally lost cause. I guess it’s my new thing this year. For friends, for potential dates. Can you show up? If not, I’m not interested. No more subtextual deep longing. 🙂
We are both shy. And I may never say anything because I like my job, and because of lack of any private opportunity.
But yes you are right and this is an excellent lesson for me… he will never say or do anything as it is too risky for him. And ultimately, the only conclusion I can draw is that to him, I am not worth taking that risk. Which is perfectly understandable. So my LE is a complete waste of time.
@Allie,
Did you learn anything?
Allie,
“he will never say or do anything as it is too risky for him. And ultimately, the only conclusion I can draw is that to him, I am not worth taking that risk.”
I came to the same conclusion about my LO. I was fine to flirt with and get little charge from, but meeting me hadn’t rocked his world the way meeting him rocked mine. I would have taken the risk for him. He didn’t feel the same way or didn’t have the backbone to follow through, which, if the real reason (and I’ll never know), is very unsexy (to me, at least). I don’t know which is worse — someone not liking you at all or someone not liking you enough.
@Scharnhorst
Here and now, I learned that what has happened already with my LE is an accurate predictor of what is to come. i.e. it is a lost cause. I just need to get that into my head sufficiently to enable me give up hope.
Stealing a page from Scharn’s SOTD…
https://youtu.be/0E7rUemfC-A
Just what I need…
Somebody else after my job.
DrL pays me by the song. 😉
Ah, I just knew you guys had a deal going. 😛
@Beth
One of LO’s favorite bands. Dammit I was doing fine until that. Jk
@Scharn…Ha! Wouldn’t dream of it
@ B
Oh man…my LO is very musical. Some days, I don’t open Spotify at all. Can’t do it. Won’t last forever tho
Songs of the Day (redux):
“Long Dark Road” – The Hollies (1971)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p9t9MCExwQ
“Here I Go Again” – Whitesnake (1987 rerelease)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SybJ55IuBz8
LO #2 could pull off Tawney Kitaen.
In the summer of 1987, I thought these songs predicted my destiny. I was wrong.
A great topic. I think some of us, though, get stuck in the limerent swamp without really meaning to. Certainly, I never anticipated my first time lasting so long…
What did I, as a gay man, get out of being limerent for a straight man? Well, energy, for one thing. I got ridiculous amounts of mental and physical energy. In fact, I don’t think I could “move on” emotionally until my super-charged, near-manic levels of energy started to subside. Limerence is like cocaine, not that I’ve ever taken cocaine. What do you do if you swear off drugs forever, and still can’t come down off your last high? In other words, I had to wait for my physical body to catch up with the rest of me. Took me twenty years.
Also, for me personally, a huge barrier to overcoming limerence, was my poor understanding of sex and sexuality. I always sensed there was something vaguely sexual about limerence, but couldn’t make the clear link between sex and limerence, because the link between sex and limerence isn’t particularly clear – not even for heterosexual couples.
In other words, limerence is about sex – of course it’s about sex. But it’s not a strictly linear relationship. As someone a bit shy about sexual feelings, I didn’t know what limerence meant. Maybe, being raised a good Christian boy and all, I didn’t want to know what limerence meant. The truth was too confronting. In certain circles, my sexual preference basically means social rejection. People are nice to you when you tell them, and then conveniently never speak to you again. It’s kind of sad. Such an environment is not conducive to honesty.
If I knew limerence equals unconscious sexual attraction, for example, and my LO only likes a specific sex, then, yes, I would have been able to move on in a heartbeat, no problems. I’m not really interested in chasing birds of the wrong feather. Actually, I’m confused why a straight male paid so much attention to me in the first place and made such a fuss of me? He had a very nice lady friend he eventually married. Maybe he should have spent more time entertaining her, and less time bothering me? For some weird reason, he admired me. Go figure.
As for my current LO, who is the same sexual preference as me, I’m dragging it out because of the excitement involved. I want the excitement to last. I’ve never had a crush on a more appropriate “love object” before, so I don’t feel especially guilt-ridden. I’m having a high-school type flirtation twenty years too late because I didn’t get to have a high-school type flirtation back in real-life high school. It’s pathetic I know, but so far I haven’t experienced any fallout. It’s fun. It’s silly. It’s wonderful to see the laughter in his eyes when I tell him a dirty joke.
I’ve also read hundreds of books on sex and sexuality in the meantime.
It doesn’t sound pathetic in the slightest.
@Allie. Thank you. Believe me when I say I’m not very good at telling dirty jokes, (in person anyway), but pulled this one off. He threw his head back, eyes shining, big smile. Said nothing, all body language. A full-grown man with the sense of humour of a little boy. What’s not to love about that?
It was a penis joke, if you must know. Something about having never seen one before. A blatant lie, of course. But that’s what made the joke so darn funny. (And one has to tell the joke with a perfectly straight face and an English accent. Don’t ask me why – English accents are hilarious to us Aussies. If you ever have to say anything even slightly embarrassing or inappropriate, it helps to say it in a very proper tone of voice).
I still remember the last time I told my mother a dirty joke. I was five. I couldn’t remember the punchline. Knock knock? Who’s there? Bare. Bare Who? Bare-bare-oh-gosh-I-don’t-remember. Still, my audience turned purple with rage and punished me. My mother is the strangest woman – incredibly prudish. No wonder my comedy skills remain a tad rusty!
I can’t help but wonder, when I’m prim and proper in real life, am I unconsciously parodying you-know-who? This is the problem with us gay men – we can’t seem to escape our mother’s subtle emotional influence – we either love them to death or turn into a grotesque version of them!
I’m so happy about the “stalemate” paragraph. I once wrote a (pathetic) poem about my current LE called “strange dance” and even at this point I’m still not sure whether my LO and I are dancing together or whether I’m dancing alone with a shadow I’ve created myself.
My LO glimmered and I went up to him and started a conversation in an attempt to get to know him. It just went downhill from there. He kept acting ambiguous, which made me insecure about how to act myself and I started being more and more ambiguous, too. To the point a friend said to me: “Both of you are complete weirdos, who just seem to be utterly confused by each other. I can’t decide who acts more peculiar towards the other.” So I (sort of) disclosed and he said, he’d wondered about my intentions because they were far from obvious. I stated, I felt he didn’t reciprocate and he asked what made me think that and never really properly responded to my statement. And the dance continued…
I find it so hard to let go because I’m not sure if the fact that “we” are not progressing can be sourced back to me and my inability to act authentically around him and show my interest openly. There’s this little voice telling me: “If you just changed the way you act, a relationship would be in the realm of possibility”. Limerence limbo really is a personal hell.
What is this but a warning sign. If the dynamic is so flawed and you have an obvious communication mismatch, how could you ever have a fulfilling relationship. The push/pull is not going to stop just because you decide to change the relationship status or add physical intimacy to the game etc. What an awful outlook on a potential relationship!
BLE,
If you disclosed, he knows you are interested. I mean, you can ask him out (and I would use the word date so there is no ambiguity). I know it won’t be easy, but after you asked, I’d leave the ball in his court. And then you’ll have your answer. You can make it as simple as a coffee date or a drinks date.
Oh, he asked me out to dinner and then it never happened because we never actually set a date. I don’t feel comfortable sharing the details on the internet but I think “strange dance” once again describes it best. It became so ridiculous that after a while I said I didn’t want to go anymore.
He has a very avoidant personality style. To be honest I’m not sure how he would react if I asked him out for coffee or if this reaction was a reflection of his feelings either way.
But even writing this I realize there is no way I could have a fulfilling relationship with him – so, NC it is. It’s just SO hard. I might have to move to a different city.
BLE,
“Oh, he asked me out to dinner and then it never happened because we never actually set a date.”
So when he asked you out, you never asked when you were going? Or he left it up in the air but neither of you brought it up again?
@Marcia
I’m not sure how to answer your questions without being too specific about the details. I just wrote a long paragraph explaining what happened but realized I don’t feel comfortable sharing this online. So I’ll try to keep it vague.
There was a natural hold-up for why we couldn’t set a date at the time he asked. Also the way he phrased it, was so ambiguous that I wasn’t sure he actually wanted to go or whether it was supposed to be a date or not. That was long before disclosing, so I thought maybe he was insecure as well. We kinda planned it out, though, and it was fun talking about it. But then it just never happened. He kept bringing it up again and again (for months!!) but also pushed it further and further into the future. Sometime inbetween I disclosed (clumsily and probably also quite ambiguously). His strange behaviour continued, until I said I didn’t want to go anymore.
BLE,
“He kept bringing it up again and again (for months!!) but also pushed it further and further into the future. ”
I would have tried to pin him down on a date. “How about we go tomorrow? I can go at 6.” And if he tried to put it out into the future or was vague, you could have decided what you wanted to do from there.
“I’m still not sure whether my LO and I are dancing together or whether I’m dancing alone with a shadow I’ve created myself”
Such a great description of what is happening to me too BLE! I have indulged in so much reverie that I have created this part-imaginary lover in my mind. I know with certainty that my LO has strong feelings for me but not if we are dancing the same dance or not – I cannot trust my judgement on this fully. We both behave in an avoidant but curious way around each other, not really knowing how to relate to each other unless it is about work. I have never disclosed and I feel like that is a barrier to my recovery because until I know for sure that he knows I reciprocate his feelings, I will continue to struggle to stop hoping for *something*.
But you are both right (BLE, Marcia), if nothing has happened after so long, nothing ever will.
Hi Allie,
do you mean romantic feelings when you refer to how he feels about you? Or is the nature of the feelings what you are not sure about?
What keeps you from disclosing?
Yes I am certain he has romantic feelings towards me, but we are both married. I would be content with an emotional relationship (which is OK in my marriage).
What stops me? LO is my boss and I have never been on my own with him outside of the office. His avoidant behaviour makes me unsure if he would be open to talking about our “dance” – I like working with him so don’t want to risk a good working relationship.
Allie,
I’m certain my LO had feelings for me, too, but he was never going to do anything about them. And that was torturous. I wanted so much more. I’m a limerent. I wanted the whole, big 9. 🙂 So I eventually had to leave the job and go NC.
Just been re-reading the blog posts above. I feel foolish as I am saying exactly the same thing, feeling the same way, staying in the same state 7 months later. Nothing ever changes unless you make it change I guess. My LE brain is an idiot!
Songs of “the Dance”:
“Let’s Dance” – David Bowie (1983)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktdQiODWt84
This song came out about the time my “dance” with LO #2 took off in earnest.
“Dance Me to the End of Love” – Leonard Cohen (1984)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTqoGu61IIs –
This song came out when LO #2 were full bore into our dance.
But, with limerence, the “dance” is often more Billy Idol than David Bowie or Leonard Cohen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGdNOCSIQAw – “Dancing With Myself” – Billy Idol (1980)
OT: What I wouldn’t give be be Leonard Cohen class cool…
Commenting on the blog post after 4 years of crazy hard painful NC (luckily no longer painful)
“The worst scenario is a manipulative LO. Sometimes, the LO has no intention of committing, but every intention of keeping their narcissistic supply coming. This is the worst kind of limbo, because any attempt to escape countered by an LO who resists and pulls you back in, giving just enough attention and reciprocation to make you doubt your resolve to move on, because clearly there is something between you, but… what exactly?”
– Simple to solve. You give a deadline to the person to give you a definite yes/no.
So they do not have a way to resist and pull you back in, you’re not a helpless child like that.
I did that BTW, giving an ultimatum with a deadline
You can ofcourse put it in a polite way too if you are concerned about conflict…. But if the other person is normal and sensible and decent they won’t get too offended even if you phrase it bluntly as an ultimatum without being too rude or aggressive ofcourse
– “Basically, sometimes an LO can play us. In terms of the neurochemistry, they are giving an intermittent reward that is difficult to adapt to, and resistant to extinction of the reward memory. A classic example is this case study of an LO who was still trying to keep a limerent hooked during their wedding to someone else.”
– I mean, anyone who doesn’t like unnecessary pain and can use their rational senses will be able to leave as soon as there is no *satisfactory* reward anymore. I mean I know limerence is supposed to be an addiction but if you look deep and hard into yourself surely you can see that it’s not *satisfying*.
“Even worse, when one of them finds some resolve and withdraws, the other panics and attempts to pull them back in. If the first person has a rescue-fantasy problem, this is pretty much guaranteed to stress test their resilience to breaking point”
– Well sure life stresstests your resilience sometimes, so what?
“Hope is very powerful.”
– Not really to me. If it’s not based in reality then no!
“Like any habit, slipping into a state of romantic daydreams and rewarding fantasy is comfortable and familiar.”
– Not to me, if there are no REAL satisfactory rewards.
“Many limerents – especially, perhaps introvert limerents – use reverie for mood regulation.”
– I’m definitely *not* socially extraverted. Yet I can’t believe in fantasies, so I cannot use fantasy reveries for mood regulation when it comes to fantasising about a real person or my actual life.
“It’s a lacklustre substitute for the real thing of actual reciprocation from LO”
– Agreed, it’s very lacklustre, hardly any real dopamine for me out of fantasy, when it could and should be a real tangible reward
“Better the faint warmth of imagined love than the volatility and uncertainty of a real-life relationship.”
– A real life relationship isn’t primarily about volatility or uncertainty.
If you have put in the effort to get experience with them, then it’s hardly about that. Maybe this is the main point of my comment.
“Yes, it’s frightening to disclose to an LO who might say no.”
– I disagree. Either the LO is available in practice, in which case it’s just normal initiative-taking, not some frightening, unreal risk. Practice initiative-taking.
Or they are not available and then you’re not gonna humiliate yourself like that, just move on.
“It’s also frightening to walk away from an LO who you really want to be with, but can’t be now, in case their circumstances change in the future.”
– “What if” possibilities are not real!
“It’s also frightening to think you might move too soon, or too late, or bungle your declaration in some way that means you wreck your one chance to make a good first impression.”
– Again who cares about all these unreal “what ifs”. They are not in front of you, are not tangible, do not exist. Make your decision based on what you want then go do the thing. Accept possible negative consequences without blowing the risk out of proportion, keep your head screwed on, and know that what you ultimately want is worth the risk of the negative consequences.
There is no way to know what is “too soon” or “too late” so might as well make your move NOW.
“You should fear wasting years on someone who doesn’t want to give themselves to you.”
– You better have enough pride and self-esteem not to waste any time on someone who doesn’t care about you.
“Limbo is safe, but it’s the stultifying safety of a gilded cage.”
– It’s worse than a gilded cage.
It’s not safe at all, it’s you being wasted away and if the LO is narcissistic then it’s exploitation and humiliation on top of it.
Hardly any gild.
40 year old limerent here. My LO is my student, also she is the long-awaited colleague in a work environment where we were so desperately waiting for somebody to finally come and by sharing the work, make life and work a little less hard. We always were critically understaffed.
This is my first LE, though in hindsight maybe this is just my first full-scale LE – on previous occasions, only the glimmer happened.
Along comes this young spirit, full of energy and goofiness and ambition, smart and witty, me being semi-burnt-out and so began our (probably mutual) LE – after a month of or so, she disclosed she had “very intense” feelings for me, how in a way she envies me – that I have a “loving, caring marriage”, that “I’m succesful”.
Long story short … and then things went south AKA (probably?) mutual limerence.
For a couple of days, reality was distorted. It was an emotional rollercoaster, the undescribable bliss being around her and the tremendous guilt of me being a cheater – and I didn’t know what to do, I was constantly having these intrusive thoughts about LO, NOT always pleasant, wanting desperately to regain some degree of control. It happened too fast, and I didn’t want any of this to happen.
And I couldn’t eat for days. And then I found this site and I learned about limerence.
Now, 1 month after it all started with that one kiss, I’m feeling a bit better. Or rather, I was feeling better.
Because our situation, NC is not feasible – I passed on her tutorship to one of my colleagues. We are still talking and seeing each other on a daily basis.
Told her that I do love my SO and my kid. That indeed, these must have been hard times for our marriage, I was away a lot of time from my family (still am) but I can’ be with her – hell, what gave it away that this is actually limerence was the fact that she wanted to be my wife. KNOWING that I am married. After 1 month of working together. And me, being also limerent, not finding this as a red flag – not considering the age gap between us (15 years). That’s how distorted my reality was, and in a way, still is.
I never really wanted to divorce. I never couldn’t vilify my SO, tough in hindsight, LO was always pointing out how much more “fitting” we would be for each other, being “soulmates”. I explained to her (and myself) in every way I could think of, that any sort of relationship between us can happen. And I tried to be as consistent as I could.
“Can we still be friends then since we’re soulmates and still working together? If you ever get divorced, will I be the first one you’d call?” – LO asked. First question, I’m working on. Second one? This is tricky.
Being friends and colleagues with LO when NC is not possible? I try. And she tries. It’s a slow process, but I’m thinking, maybe we can sort this out. Most of the emotional rollercoaster feelings are gone. My palms are still sweating when near LO, but I feel I have a good degree of control over this – I am again present in my activities, I regained my appetite, can finally sleep well, all in all, I feel better than before.
But what about those daydreamings about LO, while not as intrusive and not at all frustrating? Is it just my subconscious clicking into mood repair mode? Am I fooling myself?
So is this limbo? Back to square one? I’m actually considering disclosing this to my SO though I know this might not be a wise choice. Rule one for me was to not make any life-changing decisions “while under the influence”. But I feel that my SO could understand me, she deserves to know. She clearly seems to know me better than I do.
Sorry for the long post – this is my first one ever in any forum, I guess I was always more of a reader than a writer. And here it40 year old limerent here. My LO is my student, also she is the long-awaited colleague in a work environment where we were so desperately waiting for somebody to finally come and by sharing the work, make life and work a little less hard. We always were critically understaffed.
This is my first LE, though in hindsight maybe this is just my first full-scale LE – on previous occasions, only the glimmer happened.
Along comes this young spirit, full of energy and goofiness and ambition, smart and witty, me being semi-burnt-out and so began our (probably mutual) LE – after a month of or so, she disclosed she had “very intense” feelings for me, how in a way she envies me – that I have a “loving, caring marriage”, that “I’m succesful”.
Long story short … and then things went south AKA (probably?) mutual limerence.
For a couple of days, reality was distorted. It was an emotional rollercoaster, the undescribable bliss being around her and the tremendous guilt of me being a cheater – and I didn’t know what to do, I was constantly having these intrusive thoughts about LO, NOT always pleasant, wanting desperately to regain some degree of control. It happened too fast, and I didn’t want any of this to happen.
And I couldn’t eat for days. And then I found this site and I learned about limerence.
Now, 1 month after it all started with that one kiss, I’m feeling a bit better. Or rather, I was feeling better.
Because our situation, NC is not feasible – I passed on her tutorship to one of my colleagues. We are still talking and seeing each other on a daily basis.
Told her that I do love my SO and my kid. That indeed, these must have been hard times for our marriage, I was away a lot of time from my family (still am) but I can’ be with her – hell, what gave it away that this is actually limerence was the fact that she wanted to be my wife. KNOWING that I am married. After 1 month of working together. And me, being also limerent, not finding this as a red flag – not considering the age gap between us (15 years). That’s how distorted my reality was, and in a way, still is.
I never really wanted to divorce. I never couldn’t vilify my SO, tough in hindsight, LO was always pointing out how much more “fitting” we would be for each other, being “soulmates”. I explained to her (and myself) in every way I could think of, that any sort of relationship between us can happen. And I tried to be as consistent as I could.
“Can we still be friends then since we’re soulmates and still working together? If you ever get divorced, will I be the first one you’d call?” – LO asked. First question, I’m working on. Second one? This is tricky.
Being friends and colleagues with LO when NC is not possible? I try. And she tries. It’s a slow process, but I’m thinking, maybe we can sort this out. Most of the emotional rollercoaster feelings are gone. My palms are still sweating when near LO, but I feel I have a good degree of control over this – I am again present in my activities, I regained my appetite, can finally sleep well, all in all, I feel better than before.
But what about those daydreamings about LO, while not as intrusive and not at all frustrating? Is it just my subconscious clicking into mood repair mode? Am I fooling myself?
So is this limbo? Back to square one? I’m actually considering disclosing this to my SO though I know this might not be a wise choice. Rule one for me was to not make any life-changing decisions “while under the influence”. But I feel that my SO could understand me, she deserves to know. She clearly seems to know me better than I do.
TheLimerentMe,
“So is this limbo? ”
I don’t think you are in limbo. You know how your LO feels. Limbo, at least to me, is choosing to stay in a state of uncertainty — “Is it mutual? I think, but I’m not sure. I haven’t disclosed; they haven’t disclosed.” Because sometimes, to find out the truth about how the LO feels or what they plan to do, can be painful. Thus, staying limbo.
It sounds like your LE is mutual.
Yes I think you’re right.
Though LO keeps dismissing the whole limerence concept, says that if it makes me feel better if I consider myself to be “sick with something” then it’s my problem, my own way of handling my guilt and frustration.
Oh yes, and she’s in a relationship too, though she’s not married. Seems to me that she’s in denial but God, what a mess we are.
Worst thing is that I can see no resolution to this – I know that this is wrong on every level, yet I can’t seem to let her go.
I’m curious if anyone ever could end their limerence through sheer willpower.
On a side note – sorry for that earlier post, I did not edit it and it seems like gibberish now (it was 4 in the morning here).
Wanted to say so many things, ended up writing a mess.
It would not be possible to have a meaningful relationship with my LO. I’m married and I do love my family. Plus the age gap and pardon me, status gap between me and LO. My rational brain knows this. How come I still feel so attracted to LO, to something I know only exists in my fantasy? Damn false reward system. I know I should be better than this but the push-pull dynamic seems to weaken my resolve.
I know medication is not THE answer here, but has anyone here tried SSRIs?
A friend at work suggested that I should try the pills but I’m having doubts.
TheLimerentMe,
“I’m curious if anyone ever could end their limerence through sheer willpower.”
The only thing that worked for me was NC and time. A little over two years of NC and I have so much more perspective on it. I now see ruminating over an unavailable person as a huge waste of time. But in the middle of the LE, I thought the world was at stake.
He was a co-worker like your LO. I couldn’t be around him. I left the job. I don’t know if that is an option for you.
Is it weird if my LO acts and feels like I do and is also behaving like I am his own LO?
You talked about the slight warmth of the fantasy of a relationship with LO being a better alternative to a real life relationship with them that might be dissapointing.
That’s exactly how I feel (and LO feels, too). All my real life relationships have been tough and dissapointing, including those with my family (I was raised by non-empathetic people). As a result, I closed myself off to any relationship with a real person. And it’s not only because real life is worse and colder but because my brain is so affected by trauma that, if I were to actually be in that happy, 2-sided relationship with LO or someone else, I’d either turn numb and stop feeling the feelings and resent the relationship or become too excited about them, too clingy, needy and desperate and would eventually chase them away (who would want that type of behavior?).
I’m trying to find a type of therapy that could help me shed this numb feeling, this inability to accept emotions, happiness and kind love. I believe if this problem is solved, my brain will, slowly start rejecting the feeling of being obsessed with another person and get more pleasure from real-life experiences.
I feel so fucked up from 35+ of trauma and pain. Anyone else feel the same?
Limbo is an apt word for my state of LE. I would like to add a bit of a subset to the ‘imposed’ upon category that has to do with an LO you can’t escape because of proximity circumstances. For me and for a lot of people here at LwL this would include the workplace LO but could be a neighbor, an extended family member, or maybe a life long friend. You can’t go NC with these people so you manage LC as best as possible but being in their presence and having to interact with them keeps stoking the limerent fire a bit. This is where I find myself.
Just this last week my LO has been gone. I have not seen her for 12 days and I start to feel more normal. I can imagine a world without her, where my mind does not dwell on her, and my mood feels more even. But in 2 days I will see her and I fear this level of normality will end. I’m practicing LC as best I can, trying to disengage from LO, but being in her presence will affect me negatively. She doesn’t really have to do anything. So this state of limbo persists.
Speedwagon,
There have to be ways to work toward eliminating limerence even if the limerent can only go LC (versus NC). It has to be a very common situtation. Maybe posts on this site discuss ways to help. Maybe something in Tennov’s book.
But nothing about limerence is imposed upon us limerents outside of the initial glimmer. From there, we chose what we do with it. Do we ignore it, do we walk toward it, do we stoke the flame? All of us are on here because we stoked the flame. The glimmer, like any attraction, doesn’t have to be acted on.
If a limerent stays in limbo, it’s because they want to. They’re still getting something out of the limerence, even if other parts of it are painful.
That explains my limbo. I’m in this place because I choose to be. Sometimes it just seems so unreal how long it’s lasted. I could choose to stop it but I probably won’t. I’m simply getting a rush when I think of LO.
What’s even more crazy is if you would’ve told me 2 years ago, I would be in this LE now, and my moods would roller coaster like they do, I wouldn’t have ever believed it.
@Marcia
“If a limerent stays in limbo, it’s because they want to. They’re still getting something out of the limerence, even if other parts of it are painful.”
I agree with this to an extent. At some point the limerent can decide to actively pursue freedom from limerence, do all the right things, but it will still take time. The limerence does not disappear overnight. Especially under certain circumstances like not being able to be NC. It’s that period of time that can feel like limbo.
I think also the reason that a limerent acted on the glimmer is a big part of it too. And if that reason doesn’t change for the limerent than there’s no incentive to pull out of the limerence. The limerent doesn’t see direct consequences to lingering in the limbo. And if self improvement and purposeful living aren’t seen as being able to change that reason that the limerence started than why step out of that comfort zone?
I do agree, that yes, no matter the reason all limerents are responsible for their actions and how effect others.
I agree with Speedwagon that one can “do all the right things, but it will still take time. The limerence does not disappear overnight.”
Marcia does agree, Speedwagon: she said in reply to someone: ““I’m curious if anyone ever could end their limerence through sheer willpower.”
The only thing that worked for me was NC and time.”
She also says “If a limerent stays in limbo, it’s because they want to. They’re still getting something out of the limerence, even if other parts of it are painful.” There is some truth to this, if we are very honest with ourselves.
I agree with Adam that “the reason that a limerent acted on the glimmer is a big part of it too. And if that reason doesn’t change for the limerent …”
And this ties in to MJ saying “I could choose to stop it but I probably won’t.” – in MJ’s case, the LE is an escape from his current family life with his sick dad and defiant daughter (and cats!). Unless that reason changes, the motivation is low.
For me, there were aspects of my life that were making me unhappy. I tried to fix those things in my life, for years, but they were not fixable, and I had to walk away (not an option for everyone) to eliminate that “reason” for – I would say – the glimmer happening at all in the first place. Trying to eliminate limerence while still in the unhappy situation was uphill work. The limerence is a symptom CAUSED by a root problem, so if the root problem was still there, the limerence was being fed by that. Once I dealt decisively with the root problem and walked away from the situation that was unfixable – my limerence recover still took time, but lost its potency.
I think calling the solution “purposeful living” is somewhat disingenuous (sorry Dr. L). It makes is sound like its a GOOD thing, a noble thing, something to strive for. But the truth is “purposeful” could involve walking away from promises, responsibilities, selfishly prioritizing one’s own mental health or dreams, and could cause upheaval in people’s lives and hurt the ones you love. Contemplating this is very painful. Some people will not do it, and understandably. In fact, you might say it is the less selfish thing. I think it was Limerent Emeritus who said there were reasons why people might not want to do that. Lingering in limerence limbo might actually seem the preferable option if the alternative is blowing up your whole life. People feel guilty about their limerence; but sometimes I think they tolerate it so that everything else in their life can continue in the status quo. This could be the “something” they are actually getting out of lingering in limerence limbo. This is the classic being caught between a rock and a hard place. I hope people have more compassion for themselves.
Correction to end of second to last paragraph: “my limerence recovery still took time, but the limerence lost its potency.
I also had another thought. What if the key “purposeful” think is actually … gratitude? If limerence comes out of discontentment with the status quo (no matter how charmed and objectively wonderful the status quo is, including having a wonderful SO), then perhaps the alternative to blowing up your life OR lingering in limerence limbo is to cultivate true gratitude and appreciation for the status quo (or at lease an improved version of the status quo – everything can be improved). This goes back to the million dollar question of whether “the heart wants what it wants”. The struggles of limerents is non trivial – we are often in a death grapple between being “authentic” and doing the right thing. Again, I want to say, give yourself some compassion, limerents. You are fighting a tough fight and the enemy is within.
“People feel guilty about their limerence; but sometimes I think they tolerate it so that everything else in their life can continue in the status quo. This could be the “something” they are actually getting out of lingering in limerence limbo. This is the classic being caught between a rock and a hard place. I hope people have more compassion for themselves.”
@Rainbowbrite, that’s a very good way of describing my situation. While it may not be normal or anything in true reality, there is the cheap thrill I get from the idea of LO. The perfect fantasy escape. My imaginations have always been well thought out, very particular, articulated and always steeped in perfection. I can remember the well-thought-out fantasies I created as a child. The places where my mind would go while daydreaming of things. They were always very detailed and right.
I think because I see LO as the beginning and end of the most beautiful Woman God ever created, that only exacerbates the limerence. Yet it’s a strange comfort when I go there because everything then feels right to me. Because I do feel burdened by all that’s really going on in my true actual reality.
I try to forgive myself because I really see how I got here. At the same time though, I get that it doesn’t really make me the best version of myself, that I would like to be.
MJ,
“I try to forgive myself because I really see how I got here. At the same time though, I get that it doesn’t really make me the best version of myself, that I would like to be.”
I was, like you, single when I was limernet. So I don’t know that I feel guilty for being limerent. I didn’t have an SO.
Now, I should have had much more consideration for his wife in that I went after my married LO. Obviously.
But I completely agree with Dr. L’s statement: “Most limbo ends with the shocking realisation of the time that’s been lost.”
I could punch myself in the face for how much time I wasted. And the sheer cringe of the large place he had in my life while I had such a small place in his. Wish I had thought more of myself to not waste so much of my time.
Marcia,
I know the day is going to come when I realize how much time I wasted putting into this LE. I’ll probably kick myself too.
By then I also hope I’m in a better place, where LO won’t matter as much either..
God willing. 🙏🏼
Interesting you say we stoked the flame. Its like we were supposed to know that this was happening. To us first and so far only timers knowing all of this stuff before it happened would have been wonderful hindsight. Knowing that simply getting to know someone would lead to this I would have has the choice to back out its not fair to say that I knew this was coming!
Im hoping to find out for good if this NC period for me is which feels like limbo is going to provide me some closure. Im dont feel a rush at those likes on My FB posts anymore. (not strictly NC) its my first time time dont judge. I dont even think about her some days. I just want to know if what im thinking is out of line and be told to do one. Being a good LO i dont thing she would say that. Ultimately im in very odd position.
We were going to meet to see what chemsitry there was or wasn’t. This didnt happen leaving hope in the dust. We went NC shotly after this as i confessed I had Lemerence and needed to heal, she helped me do that! If it did happen and there was hope ro chemistry, id have consider many things to make this happen. My complex and dire situation at home doesnt help. The universal credit, the business down the pan, the medically dependant wife and mortage to pay, the 17 year DB, if i left i’d have no roof unless it was LO’s roof. Id need to leave some finacial security here before i went.
Im not sure this is even a possibilty. Im sure that its impossible but wanting a better life isnt limerence. Escaping in my head into another persons life is.
Coming to terms with how tough life is for me right know fully expalined my limerence escape. I know this now. However all the facts were already establsihed before it happned. So all the discussions and deep thoughts went before the stomache swords, agony and “need”… It just got in the way 🙁
There were other things i noted from my past that could have led to this, a purposely ended relationship because of mistakes I made as a young man, it hurt hard to end a relationship of someone i loved deepley because it was the least hurtful thing to do. Or so i thought! My parents got divorced at a young age and my mum moved out. I understand all the reasons!
I just need one last contact to understand if this is all in mind only…
I don’t want to fight the tide,
“Interesting you say we stoked the flame. ”
I don’t know your story, but if you have an SO or your LO does or you both have SOs and you felt strong feelings for your LO and you walked toward the feelings instead of away from them … yes, that’s stoking the flames.
Rainbowbrite,
“For me, there were aspects of my life that were making me unhappy. I tried to fix those things in my life, for years, but they were not fixable, and I had to walk away (not an option for everyone) to eliminate that “reason” for – I would say – the glimmer happening at all in the first place. Trying to eliminate limerence while still in the unhappy situation was uphill work. The limerence is a symptom CAUSED by a root problem, so if the root problem was still there, the limerence was being fed by that. Once I dealt decisively with the root problem and walked away from the situation that was unfixable – my limerence recover still took time, but lost its potency.”
Agree with everything you wrote here. None of this is easy.
Also … another topic that I don’t know has been written about yet … the sheer selfishness of limerence. We want what we want, want the LO is our lives (in whatever form/capactiy that takes), and to hell with everyone else. Which I am certianly gulity of.
Yes. Call it like it is, Marcia.
Thanks for reposting this, Dr L might have read our posts and decided it’s high time to make a wake-up call again;)
It worked for me, I literally shuddered at this:
„ This is the reason why many of us spend long stretches of our adult lives in limerence limbo. It can last beyond individual LOs, it can last through marriages, it can last till we reach the autumn of our years. A stable feature of our internal world is the ability and desire to use romantic fantasy as a safe and reliable way to comfort ourselves. “
Limbo is the transitional state between the initial months of mania and the long tail of depression that is the inevitable course of limerence.
Hopefully the more time you avoid spending in the first two phases, the shorter the recovery afterwards will be, and the less time wasted on the whole catastrophe.
[Discussion thread with sad_hr_target_clown moved to coffeehouse]
– Dr L
Hi everyone, I am fairly new to the community, but I’ve found a lot of hope and encouragement so far. Thanks to Dr. L and all the commenters.
This blog post touches on many phases of my experience with limerence. Thanks Dr. L for reposting, since I probably would not have found it otherwise. I’ve been in a limerence limbo trap, partially of my own creation, with the same LO on and off for the past 24 years.
I won’t write all the details here, but met LO in college because we were both selected to prepare for and participate in an international event. This involved a small group that would be spending months in preparation, then nearly every moment of a transformational, one-in-a-lifetime, two-week event together at the end of the year. Long story short, there was a “glimmer” during the preparation for the event. We were both single, but I worried that if I asked her out and things did not go perfectly, it would ruin the group dynamic and make the entire event awkward. So I convinced myself that I should not disclose until after the trip. So there was an external force that I thought made it wise not to disclose, but the choice was mine, and it turned out to be a huge mistake, and probably my biggest regret in life, not to pursue her as a romantic interest immediately. This was my self-imposed limbo. I could not get out of it later.
The trip was amazing, and we had some very close bonding moments. Ultimately there was some disclosure and some reciprocity but not quite enough to eliminate all my doubts and uncertainty.
It was also true that in the interim, she had begun dating someone else. So after the trip, I decided to continue being patient. I think in part I was waiting for the right moment, which never came. But in retrospect, I think there was also a part of me that was addicted to the hope and uncertainty, as Dr. L describes in “the power of hope” above. This was like a trap I had created for myself.
After college we went separate ways, to different continents, and never again have lived in the same state. After a while, the limerence faded, and I was able to have other meaningful relationships. I met my future wife. LO also got married. Both of us have children. We really had very little contact for more than 20 years. That could have been the end of the story. But periodically I have had major limerent episodes, and especially this year, 23 ½ years after that first glimmer. The most recent one seemed to come out of nowhere and I would spend many hours ruminating about LO. I got back in touch – perhaps not wise, but I had not even heard of limerence and did not understand my emotions – and we had some great conversations.
But honestly, I think what Dr. L says about “the comfort of the familiar” rings true. These LEs seem to happen when having the most difficulty with my marriage, and my mind gives me a dream or daydream about some imagined future with LO. Of course the imagined future is technically not impossible which keeps that limerent hope flame burning, but certainly not plausible. My mind also goes over what could have been with my LO if I had done things differently. None of these are healthy thoughts, but somehow when my marriage is not going well they provide some familiar comfort.
I am limiting contact now, but total NC does not seem like a real solution for me since really I’ve had almost no contact for many years and this can still keep happening. I don’t see the point in going totally NC right now. Disclosure I fear would not eliminate limerence, and might even be hurtful to LO and our respective SOs.
Even “purposeful living” is a bit of a catch-22 for me since LO is a wonderful human being who has committed her life to helping those in need. We share this calling and therefore thinking of living into that purpose actually pulls me towards LO rather than away.
So that’s how I’ve been in limbo all these years. I am stuck in a trap. Sometimes I feel like I am out of the trap, even for many years at a time, but later find myself back in it.
I am trying to do internal reprogramming, fighting ruminations. Thinking about the psychology of limerence, rather than LO herself, has been helpful in reducing this temptation. Also I am trying to actively stop thinking about LO and think of fond memories with SO whenever that happens.
Wish me luck!
Dang, that section on Stalemate describes my situation so well… LO and I are stuck in a place that’s not great but not terrible – I guess I’m still getting enough out of the relationship to want to continue it but not enough to ever really be happy with it, and I’d suspect it’s the same for her… and we’ve definitely had a bunch of false starts trying to end it but always gravitating back to each other.
We’ve kind of found something close to an equilibrium in recent months – we still have some push/pull, hot/cold behavior but the extremes are attenuated compared to much of the past year. We haven’t actually talked about ending the relationship since August – since then we’ve pretty much been in contact to some extent although sometimes it’s a lot and sometimes it’s pretty minimal. I’m not going through the extremes of emotion anymore (I haven’t actually cried about her in months, and I can actually focus on things like reading books now which is nice) but my mood still goes up and down depending on how things stand with her. And of course nothing is ever enough – she and I had a 3 hour conversation on the phone a week ago and it felt so great, but by the next day I was just wanting more – and I always feel so much anxiety about our relationship knowing that at any moment she could just decide to stop talking to me again and knowing that there’s likely a part of her that’s always considering ending it and a part that wants to draw closer.
I find myself swinging between wanting our relationship to end and wanting it to deepen. I never imagined myself being caught up in a long term emotional affair and every day I think I should end it, and then later I feel like I want it to go on forever. At times, I absolutely love the idea of me and LO maintaining a relationship for the rest of our lives; at other times that thought horrifies me. I’m just so torn between competing desires and competing versions of what I want my life to be like and what kind of person I want to be, and that keeps me in this limbo.
It’s actually quite possible that my relationship with LO could intensify in the near future. She’s going through this weird thing with her SO where for 2 nights out of the week he and their kids are staying in a different house so now she’s all alone from Tuesday to Thursday each week. And I happen to work late one of those nights and have a bunch of unscheduled time on one of those afternoons, so it would be really easy for us to start making a habit of talking on the phone (or even video chatting, although I’ve never dared to suggest it) on a regular basis during those times.
Up until now, simple logistics have been one of the main factors limiting our relationship – it’s just really hard for us to find much time to spend together while honoring our rules about discretion. We’re usually limited to like 15 minutes on the phone between when she leaves work and when she picks up her kids, or texting throughout the day while we’re both also busy with work. It’s really frustrating, but I know it’s also protected us from getting in deeper.
But last week there was a day when she was home alone and I had unscheduled time in my office and we literally talked on the phone for 3 hours and only stopped because she finally had to get her kids, and it felt absolutely amazing to have that much time to just talk with her without feeling like a clock was ticking the whole time. I want more of that, I want it so bad! But I also fear it – I fear that if we start talking like that every week or multiple times a week, the feelings will get too strong again and we’ll be back to the brink of doing something terrible.
I had a pretty emotionally intense weekend with my SO this weekend, related to some family-of-origin and mental health stuff she’s dealing with, and it mostly felt really close between us and really positive and also draining… but it mostly made me really want to just commit myself fully to SO, I woke up this morning thinking that I love SO so much and I laid there watching her sleep and told myself I shouldn’t contact LO today, but then I started feeling worried about LO because I knew the holiday weekend would be hard on her too, so I felt compelled to text her at lunch and I did, but then she never responded, and I felt such a complicated mix of relief and disappointment… and now it’s home to SO for a nice evening together and snuggling all night and then tomorrow see if LO texts me back and wants to chat and then I might have to make a hard decision about how much we’re going to escalate our contact, or maybe she’ll have already decided that it’s a bad idea, or maybe she’ll want more contact too, I don’t know… but either way the limbo continues.
LiS,
While I admire your dedication to give all you have to both women, I have to say it sounds a bit exhausting…
Maybe the limerence is as tenacious as it is because you‘ve got the limitations? Maybe if your LO would be available 24/7 and wait for you all the time to contact her, it would fade simply because you couldn’t cope with organizing your life, and you would get to know her faults much better?
Now every stolen minute seems like pure gold simply because it‘s rare.
Also, I admire your undemandingness. When you think of her all alone and you having unscheduled time, you think of video and phone calls while my fantasy would go way more crazy.
But that’s probably because my LE has this physical touch due to my issues with SO sex.
Her relationship sounds as if there are some problems and maybe not very stable? So maybe there will be changes in the future that will affect your limerence limbo for sure, I guess.
Mila,
“Maybe the limerence is as tenacious as it is because you‘ve got the limitations?”… “Now every stolen minute seems like pure gold simply because it‘s rare”
I think about this all the time. If we actually had unrestricted access to each other, would we lose interest and would the limerence fade? Or would the bond just keep strengthening until we found ourselves crossing lines we’d promised ourselves never to cross? I honestly don’t know. I know there are times I think to myself that I’d be happy if I could spend some sort of time with LO every day for the rest of my life, and other times when I’m horrified by that idea. I think from my end, the fact that (in addition to the logistical limitations) our contact is also limited by her hot/cold behavior is another thing that keeps the limerence so tenacious. I constantly feel insecure about the state of our relationship and I start to panic any time I feel her pulling away, and that makes me want to find ways to get closer to her, but then when we get to close I start to feel guilty and sad thinking about my SO. I think LO goes through the same sorts of feelings.
“Also, I admire your undemandingness. When you think of her all alone and you having unscheduled time, you think of video and phone calls while my fantasy would go way more crazy.”
Oh believe me, I have plenty of other fantasies that are not so pure… I just separate my fantasies into what I will actually pursue and what I would never pursue. So a fantasy about talking on the phone for a couple hours falls into the “realistic fantasy” category where I’m debating with myself about whether or not to call her tonight, while the fantasy about driving to her house and making love with her falls into the “never gonna happen so stop thinking about it” category.
There’s a middle ground of fantasies I have as well that are not firmly on one side or the other of the lines I’ve told myself I won’t cross. These fantasies involve just spending more time together in person, not just on the phone. I’ve told her a couple times that I’ve always fantasized about both of us calling in sick one day and just spending a day together, going to the beach or something in a town where no one would know us and just spending a day together doing normal things that normal people (couples or friends) do together. Her response was that it sounded really nice, but that we both knew where that would lead so we couldn’t consider it. She said it would be wrong of us to put ourselves in positions where something could happen, and then act surprised when something happened (meaning physical stuff). I know she’s right and I haven’t pursued anything like that in a long time, but I do still indulge in those types of daydreams sometimes.
LiS,
Your LO sounds so sensible and clearsighted, amazing.
I wish I would be more like that.
I‘m quite sure that if LO and me would start a real relationship as SOs, he would drive me round the bend soon and vice versa. Even when limerent some manners (or lack of) , some points of view and his passivity can go on my nerves.
I‘m sure he disapproves of some of my behavior and points of view.
So it wouldn’t work, I guess, and my SO is much more important and suitable to me. I never considered any LO to be on the same level as my SO or thought my feelings for them exceeded or matched my love for SO.
But! That fact didn’t affect my limerence. It sounds crazy but I still couldn’t stop thinking about them day and night instead of SO, etc.
So I don’t know if knowing how the situation would be if limitations weren’t there would really help you out of your limbo.
Mila,
“Your LO sounds so sensible and clearsighted, amazing.
I wish I would be more like that.”
Yes and no… she’s good at thinking practically and understanding consequences and sticking to boundaries, and I appreciate all of that a lot during my more clear-headed moments. On the other hand, I really wish she was more consistent and more open about discussing her feelings and our relationship.
Her inconsistency drives me crazy. Like, for the past couple weeks we’d been talking or texting a lot nearly every day, getting along great, nothing bad happened at all, then this week she’s basically ignored me all week, not responding to texts at all, finally texted me back tonight saying “maybe” we can talk on the phone on Thursday. And on Thursday it’ll probably be 50/50 if she’ll want to talk. Sometimes she’ll be warm and friendly for a few weeks, then pretty cold and distant for a few weeks, and if I ask her she’ll deny that anything’s wrong and say she’s just been busy. She used to be a lot more open about her feelings about me and was more willing to talk about the state of our relationship sometimes, but now that happens pretty rarely and only if I make a lot of effort to take the conversation there.
Meanwhile I’m the opposite – I’m not so great at sticking to boundaries, I’m less inclined to imagine negative consequences coming true (I’m naturally more optimistic, she’s more pessimistic). I’m a lot more consistent – I act the same way towards her every day, always respond to texts, always want to talk if she does. I’m also really open about my feelings, I’ll answer any questions she has totally openly, and she always knows where she stands with me, whereas I often don’t really know where I stand with her.
I wonder sometimes how much of this would continue if we were actually in a legitimate relationship – I think that a lot of our issues stem from her guilt about being in a secret relationship, and most days she either likes to pretend it’s just a regular friendship with no feelings involved, or if she gets too overwhelmed she just withdraws. I’ve always suspected that a lot of the communication problems would resolve themselves if we were actually together for real and her guilt and anxiety were removed from the equation, but who knows? I’ve read a bunch of stuff online about relationships between INFPs and ISTJs and it sounds like a lot of our issues are actually pretty common for that pairing, even when it’s long-term married couples. So maybe we’d actually be pretty incompatible. But hey! It doesn’t matter anyway because it’s never going to happen! I just like to spend a ton of time analyzing it and thinking about hypotheticals for some reason.
And Mila, I totally agree that it’s crazy how we can love SO more than LO, intellectually understand that SO is a better partner for us than LO ever would be, and still be totally obsessed with LO and spend way more time thinking about LO than about SO. It’s so weird right?
“some points of view and his passivity can go on my nerves”
This is quite interesting, both you and LiS – to speculate about actual compatibility with LOs.
I guess I had an experience of getting together with a past LO (after barriers were removed) – and it was a TERRIBLE relationship. One week in and I was dismayed at how many incompatibilities existed.
I was still crazy about LO, so it hurt to be so incompatible in real life. Furthermore, the sex was terrible – I think the strength of my emotion inhibited me – it was too important. The only part that was wonderful was that I was with the person I wanted to be with heart and soul – we were both SO happy when we finally could get together after all that longing. It was absolute heartbreak that we had such different values, our emotional needs were at odds, things about each other irritated us. There was not enough foundation for a successful relationship. It ended, and letting go took me almost 5 years.
Limerence isn’t enough, folks. But we want to follow it to find out if ecstatic union lies at the end of the rainbow. I know all this, but I still desire my LO, and wonder what it will be like to be with them. But I am completely aware that getting together may or may not work out, even if we could.
Leprechaun,
it’s interesting to hear you experienced what we only speculate about.
With all 3 of my LO s I can see that relationships with them wouldnt either have worked out at all like in your case, or since I am or was quite adaptive (when younger ), I would have had a really different kind of life and relationship, and I don’t mean it positively.
I was also limerent for my SO , the biggest LE I ever had, and I was lucky that he was such a good choice (but I actually think I knew that instinctively, as much as I knew deep inside with all my LOs that we were not really compatible).
Are you still in contact with your incompatible LO?
Lost in Space,
I tend to think that your LO would have the same pattern of behavior in a regular relationship when faced with problems. She wouldn’t be a different person than she is now, and everyone has a set of behavior patterns , emotional reactions etc
Maybe it wouldn’t come out so strong as now with all the secretiveness, and she would have to control or work on it more.
But I‘m not sure, of course.
I don’t like the „maybe we talk, maybe not“ of her. It‘s unnecessary. But maybe she genuinely doesn’t know?
Which reminds me that I‘m meant to meet LO today but he hasn’t confirmed yet. I get riled immediately, because it was of course me who made the concrete suggestion (he always says he would like to meet and never suggests any date).
If he cancels on me now I will be angry, I know it, so I prepare now for not being angry and just accepting it…
Drama means limerence, I want to get to a more indifferent state of mind.
My incompatible LO sought me out a few times in the intervening years. He gave off signals of wanting to rekindle, but I wasn’t going there, even if I still felt the pull. I dreamt of him for years. But everything I’ve seen – all his life choices, his attitude, his values … I KNOW we are still incompatible and always will be. Knowing that FOR SURE meant I could rationally make the decision to keep on the wagon (like, I dunno, drugs? alcohol?) even if I still felt the lure and glimmer. I now have a new LO (decades later!), so the old one has zero power over me now. Hope that helps.
Leprechaun,
Oh wow, oh wow… thanks for sharing! So well-stated, and so fascinating to hear from someone who actually got to experience what we all want (or think we want) so bad and then found out so definitively that it was all wrong… that’s really powerful and really good for me to read, again thank you for sharing!
Do you mind if I ask you a couple of question?
When you say that barriers were removed and then you were able to start a relationship, what were the barriers in your case? Did one or both of you end a long term relationship in order to be together? Or was it something less traumatic like one of you ended a more casual relationship, or you moved to live closer together, or your employer changed their policy about coworkers dating?
I’m just curious because it seems like the circumstances leading up to removal of barriers may or may not play a huge role in the subsequent relationship. In my case, getting together with LO would require both of us ending 20 year long term relationships with people we love and have spent our whole adult lives with and have kids with. That would be a REALLY traumatic way to start a new relationship and I imagine it would have huge effects on everything that came later, leaving a stain of guilt and remorse and grief on everything that came after. My LO actually told me something once about how she was forcing herself to accept that we could never be together because she’d be horrified if I actually left my wife for her, and if I did, then she wouldn’t actually want to be with me because then she’d known I was the type of guy who could leave his wife for another woman, and if we did end up together she’d constantly be paranoid about when I would leave her for someone else.
Also, I don’t know if you feel comfortable sharing more about this or if it’s even possible to articulate it, but I’m really curious about what made the sex so terrible. I think most people here, myself most definitely included, have spent a lot of time fantasizing about sex with LO and in the fantasies it’s always the best experience imaginable, so it’s really shocking to hear you say that you actually got to experience what we all fantasize about and it ended up being terrible. Can you elaborate on what it was like and what made it so terrible?
Lost in Space,
I can’t speak for Leprechaun, but I had an affair with an LO, who left his wife. And the relationship between us later imploded. What happened? I got to know him. When the limerence died down, I saw him clearly.
The sex during the affair was pretty good. Sometimes really good. But not the best I’ve had. And after the affair, during the relationship, it was good/pretty good. But even he commented on how less exciting it was. There wasn’t that sense of urgency, of having to get at it.
I agree with Leprechan, though, that limerence isn’t enough. And it does wear off. And when it does, you may find that your SO was a better, long-term partner for you.
Mila,
“I don’t like the „maybe we talk, maybe not“ of her”
Haha I don’t like it either!! It freaking drives me crazy! And she does stuff like that a lot. I don’t think she’s doing it to intentionally mess with my head, I think that a) she has a pretty chaotic life and feels overwhelmed a lot of the time and legit doesn’t know if she’ll be able to talk then or not, and b) she’s always battling with herself about how much contact she should or shouldn’t have with me and I think a lot of times her difficulty committing to any future dates with me pertains to her internal battles about whether or not she should be talking to me at all.
But at the end of the day, we both know that our LOs shouldn’t have this much power over us and our whole mental state shouldn’t depend on whether or not LO commits to firm plans or talks with us today or whatever… I really wish I could somehow get back to how it was a couple years ago when LO and I just had harmless little crushes on each other and it was always a nice treat when we got to talk occasionally, but it was never anything I expected or felt deprived of when it didn’t happen, or felt anxious about when it would happen next…
My tiny little successes for today are that I didn’t text her at all today and I spent some time working on some new projects I’m excited about and spent some time doing fun things with my kids and had a good session with my therapist (and only spent like a quarter of the session talking about LO). I really do want to get to a place where I can be living more purposefully so that if LO wants to talk that’s a nice treat but it doesn’t wreck my day if she doesn’t because I have enough other things I’m excited about.
How was your day? Did your LO end up keeping your plans or did he cancel?
LiS,
so nice of you to ask.
Forgive me if I answer as if I was journaling.i need it now.
I met LO, but with his SO.
Still ruminating about it.
I mean, I knew she was in town, so it wasn’t that surprising, he also told me she would be there.
We anyway always met as couples all the years before.
Still, I don’t know. She‘s great, she’s someone who‘s always nice, a perfectionist who‘s very dedicated to her job. I never could build a connection to her as I had with LO, even before limerent, also because she‘s a bit- she has a lack of humor, or the humor of a child, while I love a kind of quick and intelligent, not always harmless humour, something LO is also capable of, but not her.
It also always irked me that she‘s kind of.. not mothering people, but something like it. And maybe I‘m crazy but since a while I feel a stilted and a bit condescending note in her way with me.
I guess she‘s simply not stupid and senses some change in the communication between me and her husband.
I feel kind of guilty even if nothing happened and didn’t enjoy the meeting at all. I behaved impeccably though, was even nicer to her than to him etc
Now they want me to come for dinner in two days. My SO is away, children are busy that evening, I could go but do I want to?
I know I should, I should come back to the old way of seeing him just as a friend with a SO. It is the perfect opportunity to slide back into that.
But I seem to be fond of my LE, not willing to let it go like that…
I sense that sometimes it‘s the feeling, not the LO, that I don’t want to let go, or the LE as something to occupy my mind, to ruminate about.
I was a bit shocked by your comparison to heroin addicts. Don’t you feel it’s very alarming, and don’t you recoil from the picture of having an addiction that you build your life around, always perfecting ways to keep it secret and at bay, centering your whole energy and purpose on managing this double life? We‘ve only got this one life, do you want to spend it like a heroin addict whose highest goal is to hide the addiction?
Maybe we should all slap our cheeks and wake up to all this misdirected energy.
Hi Leprechaun,
good for you that you managed to stay away from him! I guess I only asked because I love to hear from people that they are now just friends with LO, my current LO being a friend that I don’t want to lose…
And did this experience help you now with your current LO? Can you imagine that you would be more compatible with this one? Or do you already know that you wouldn’t be and are still limerent?
Actually, I also had a LO (nr1) where I discovered that our values and views differed so much, we fought all the time horribly about something. I was still limerent like hell. Now that it‘s in the past I avoid him most of the time (he‘s at my workplace), we have a friendly vibe going on but I avoid conversations or any kind of real communication. Which works well and is for the best for both of us.
Mila, dang! You showed up thinking you were just meeting with LO but his SO was there too? Omg that sounds terrible. I never ever want to meet my LO’s SO, and I never want my LO to meet my SO. It sounds like you handled it really well. But I can only imagine how that would feel. My goodness. And I do wonder how much his SO can sense it and if that affects how she treats you. I know that in my previous LE where I did spent some time with SO and prior LO together, my SO was most definitely aware something was up. Out of curiosity, who invited you to dinner in two nights – your LO or his SO?
“I sense that sometimes it‘s the feeling, not the LO, that I don’t want to let go”
I feel this too sometimes. Of course mostly I think it’s about LO herself because obviously she’s the most wonderful and special person on the whole earth 🤣 but in some moments I have a feeling that it’s more the feeling of limerence itself I’m addicted to. I mean, who am I kidding, of course it is, this is my 4th full blown LE – it it was just about one person I’d still be limerent for LO1, right?
“We‘ve only got this one life, do you want to spend it like a heroin addict whose highest goal is to hide the addiction?”
Haha when you put it like that… although I’d argue that a heroin addict’s highest goal isn’t to hide the addiction, it’s to keep using heroin! Because apparently heroin feels pretty freaking great, kinda like limerence. And the absence of heroin apparently feels pretty freaking bad, like the absence of attention/affection from LO.
But yeah, you are very correct that the best goal is not to figure out how to manage and maintain an addiction long term, it’s to end the addiction. And I certainly KNOW that quitting my LE would be the best thing for me, I just haven’t convinced myself to actual do it, or at least to do it now. I think there’s a lot of people out there planning to quit heroin (or alcohol or cigarettes or whatever) tomorrow, and then tomorrow, and then tomorrow…
Something I had noticed about myself early in my marriage was that I tended to emotionally stray when it felt that my spouse or his job was threatened. I had a few undergraduate courses in Human Behavior Ecology and had long concluded that this is some sort of self-preservation behavior focused on ensuring my personal survival (and my off-spring). I would note the feelings when they arose, but easily moved beyond them as I had been focused on motherhood and managing the household and finances. These last couple years, however, I’ve struggled with an existential/mid-life crisis as my kids have grown, the household shrank and we achieved a base level financial independence (“barista FIRE”) and after roughly 40+ years of living a quiet, reclusive lifestyle (at different times imposed, other times chosen) I had to return to full-time work when my husband found himself between jobs and we were facing a gap in health insurance. I went to work in a busy retail establishment that gave me insurance, but also, with lightening speed, LO #3 since I got married. My LO is sweet and considerate and simply put: an amazing man that I am very glad to have in my life… but the prospects of any sort of romantic relationship are hindered substantially not only because I’m married (and intend to remain so), but also because my LO has progressive dementia (likely early onset Alzheimer’s). I’ve worked with vulnerable populations before as a professional caregiver and/or volunteer and I suspected something was “off” when I first met him just under a year ago, but I’ve seen marked changes especially in the last three months and a few weeks ago he disclosed it to me privately. He had periodically told me since the first week we met that he doesn’t have anyone to take care of him when he gets old (his partner left him several years ago and his one sibling died last year) and last week I took the opportunity to tell him that, because of my financial independence, I could be of great support for him. It was a big moment for me… culmination of lots of discussions and soul-searching with myself, often with either my husband (who is incredibly supportive and understanding) or my therapist… LO said he appreciated it, but that he had some younger cousins and a few close friends that he could count on (then why tell me for months that you don’t have anyone to care for you???). Objectively speaking LO and I talk more and more infrequently now. It’s not like it used to be the first three or four months when LO would spend extra time in my department, starting and extending conversations. I miss the lovely and diverse stories of him growing up in the area (often repeatedly because he’d forget he had told me already). He used to ask me questions about myself or we’d swap stories of our shared interests. We used to buy each other drinks or snacks and we have a jovial, chummy coworker that used to make sweet little comments about us to each other… I’m not sure what’s going on… I’ve talked about it with a few others and it’s possible he’s embarrassed, it’s possible his dementia is making him pull back, it’s possible that he just doesn’t need my help… but my offer still stands! As I told my therapist, the limerence is ending because something more substantial and fundamental is happening here and she agreed saying that sometimes preparation meets opportunity: I’m uniquely positioned with time, money, energy and experience to help him out. But he’s got to be willing (and capable) to own his end of it… maybe conclude his stalemate and limbo (we never flirted but I know he found me attractive though very married – the deal breaker). I have other plans and interests to seek out on my own, but I do hope he challenges himself and questions and entertains how I might fit into this phase of his journey through life. Fair to say it’s not going to be the easiest or most enjoyable, but it could be meaningful and rewarding for both of us. Purposeful…
SJ
On a non limerent note, I hope the best for him and yourself and that you are able to help him through this faze in his life. You might be a more dignified experience to him to walk through this part of his life with someone that actually cares about him as the person he is rather than a random caregiver. And you certainly seem to be a woman with great compassion and empathy. Wishing you both the best.
As far as him falling back on other family when telling you he had no one my guess might be that he was using that confession as a way to get closer to you. LO confided in me a lot, and I was quite guilty of letting her know often I was there for her, as a means not only to help her but to try and get closer to her. I had an ulterior motive. And when he felt that it didn’t necessarily draw you in he fell back on a more practical scenario. That’s just my guess. That or he’s just getting “cold feet” thinking about being in that situation with you if he is attracted to you but trying to be respectful of your marriage.